Okay. Anybody in the waiting room? Okay. What do I need to do? Um, Brandon or just go ahead. >> We'll sec. Okay. Great. Um, good morning everyone. Um, let's get going to call
meeting of the MN Steer Reuse Committee to order. Today is Thursday, January 22nd, 2026, and this is um a hybrid meeting that is being recorded.
Um, so let me just run quickly through the agenda. Um, first item is to review and approve the minutes of January 8th. Um then a discussion with pastor Phyllis from the Shootsberry Church and Chris Putit um member of the Shootsbury church
who Chris is here and um Pastor Ellis is here. Great. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. Um then I'm going to give an update um on my conversation with town council Donna McNichol about any legal issues regarding shared um septic
systems uh water and then um unanticipated business and I would say um just a um report from you Henry. I mean, you sent us an email about your um call with Al Warner, but um
it needs to come up sooner. Um you can tell us what he said. We won't have it as a separate item. And then um scheduled next meeting date. Is there anything any other unanticipated business? Anything else we wanted to add
to the agenda? Okay. So, why don't we go ahead and we can launch into um >> go number two >> having uh Chris and I don't know if you if you can pull around here just a
little bit and I have to see those guys. Um so, thank you for u making the time to meet with us. Um, I'm not sure. Do you know sort of what this committee is is discussing or do you want me to give a a brief overview
of what we're up to here? >> Uh, Mark's >> Mark, you are unmuted. So, can you unmute your >> Can I Can I unmute? >> Yeah. I mean, we we we understand that this, you know, they want to you guys or
the town wants to reuse the town library there and uh just exploring what are the options for water and septic. >> Yeah, that >> that pretty much sums it up. >> Yeah. Um so we as a committee have been meeting for um a few months and um we're
we're at the point of saying okay made made the decision um or going to make the recommendation that um you know whatever use there is there that it's going to need a bathroom and and running water and um we got some we met with the
board of health with um Kat Hen from the board of health and um and then had a conversation with Alan Weiss who's a senator ary engineer who's done a lot of work at Shootsbury um and you know at uh after that discussion determined that
the most expeditious and cost-effective um means of getting water and sewer to uh the MSN building would be looking at existing facilities and uh the churches
um well and septic system are obviously the closest would come over here but right that's has its complications >> so um I know um Henry did a little bit of of uh research with El Werner who
lives in town who's a geologist what >> hydro geologist >> hydrogeeologist um just talk to him about um you know are there any limitations on uh the existing well and septic
system. Um you know if we wanted to do something what are we going to run into um on the town comment? But maybe we could start by if you can share with us as much information as you have about
the well that's there, the septic system that's there, age, condition, that sort of thing. That would be really useful. >> You wanna You want to go, Mark? You want me to talk? >> Why don't you go ahead? You've been talking about it more.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, >> as you folks know, we we just had to replace the uh the water line um this past summer because there was a crack in the water line. Um but the well
is a shallow well. Um we have had you know years of periods where where it would be dry just for the church itself. Um so unless that you know unless that was deepened you
know drilled uh in that through through that well through that shallow well I I it would certainly not be a reliable source um for two build you know two buildings
never mind one um >> and the water has is um contaminated with PAS. Is that >> Yes. Yes. A very low level of PAS. We do have the filters provided by the town uh
you know monitored by the engineering company there. Um and those are in the those are installed. We've had two summers since I've been there. That's seven years. Um that we have run out of water for
um three, four, five weeks. >> Okay. >> A few summers ago, we had to get a uh porta potty and put that outside the church. Um otherwise, we've used water to flush, you know, and uh clean water for
handwashing that we carry in. So I don't see it as a reliable source. Um >> certainly not for two buildings. >> Yes. >> It's uh it's been a nuisance for us on occasion obviously. >> Yeah.
>> And do you know the depth? When you say shallow, I mean is it 20 feet, 40 feet or >> No. No. No. >> You don't know? >> No. Probably 12, 14. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah, it's very shallow. >> Okay. >> There's only a few feet of water in it. >> Okay.
Um, any other questions about the well? Um, and it's it's currently serving. So, you have one two bathrooms. What do you have? Um, in the >> one one bathroom, two, I'm sorry. Two bathrooms. >> Two bathrooms, two toilets, two sinks. >> Okay.
>> The thing is the church only use it two days a week, >> right? um you know, Sunday morning and and generally we have a midweek meeting of some sort >> which is often only um five or six people. Um on the weekend we might have
20. So it's it's not a lot of use. We don't use the water for cooking or anything like that because um we're unsure of its potability and uh we do have two filters.
One is a osmosis. Is that right, Chris? >> Uh it's the uh No, not >> Oh, it's a ultra ultra light. >> Ultra ultraviolet. Yeah. >> Yeah. that was put in I don't know how long ago but maybe eight or 10 years ago after a water test that we did. So it's
presumably drinkable but we don't we don't use it for coffee or anything like that for handashing. >> You have water um jugs. Yeah, >> you have water jugs. >> We still bring in water. We still carry
in water for for drinking. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So it gets very little use and and on dry summers it definitely runs out despite our very little use.
>> Mark, you said two filters. The second one is the PAS filter I assume. >> Yes, that's correct. Okay. >> Pest everyone is. >> So, I mean potentially, you know, if the if the it if the town wanted to drill,
you could get more water. >> I'm not sure, you know, cost effective starting a new well or or or drilling down in that one. Uh, I don't know. But, >> okay, why don't we talk about the septic
system and then we can circle back to um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> how we might work together and sort of what we're looking for. >> Uh, so what can you tell us about the septic system? >> So, the septic system uh is an old system. It's been there for many years.
Um it's uh it's only I believe it's only a thousand gallons. Uh which I don't think would would be adequate to u manage two two facilities. Um you would
have to pump your septic uphill to get to it. Uh cuz it's up right next to the church by the uh fire escape and the leechfield is out um towards Julia Taylor's property there in that field.
Um but but it's it's um it's a fairly small system built years ago >> for the for the little use that we give it. And um so you said the
the tank is by the fire escape and then field of I think we had a map from the board of health. >> Um leechfield. It's very interesting. >> And have you had any any problems with
the um with the leech field or you had the tank pumped out on any kind of regular basis or? >> We have not had it pumped out in a couple in in a number of years. Uh we have not had any problems with it. It's been it's been reliable. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. So, we do have
the um from the the plan from the board of health that um illustrates where everything is. Um, other questions? >> Does Does the board of health say how many gallons it is? >> Yeah. 1,500. >> 1500. Okay. >> Yeah.
>> So, I'm not sure what the I don't know how that calculates for, you know, uh, residences or use, >> right? Yeah. All of that I think would have to be investigated. Um, Stephen, >> um, do you know how long ago it was that
it was pumped last? I cannot recall the last time it was pumped. >> So, it's been more than >> I mean, it was checked. It was checked um >> you know, I'm going to say
four or five years ago. Uh it was opened and um and it was not full. >> And who is the pumper? Do you know? They might have a record of the last >> Well, this would have been No. Buzzy Booth did some work on it. >> Yeah. But he's not a septic pumper.
>> No, he Well, he's he's a plumber. He's a >> he's Yeah, he's not a Right. He He's not a pumper or >> Yeah. >> Never been pumped in my seven years. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And I don't know what happened before, obviously.
>> Okay. It's not I mean, as you say, it's not used very much. >> Very little use. Very little use. >> With that kind of use, it's probably clean because everything would be able to digest, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. So would say it's probably clean because it's
>> because of the lack of use or the minimal use. It's probably clean. Everything gets to digest. >> Right. Exactly. >> And there's very little water being pumped into it. So >> Right. >> to leech out.
So um what we have what we're you know thinking about investigating is um whether it would be feasible to um you know if we were going to have a a a bathroom in the sphere building and
you know assuming it has regular would have regular use. Um, still not high volume. Yeah, not low volume, but regular use, right? Put it that way. Um, >> uh, then could we um improve the
um could we dig in dig either a new well or with the existing well? um you know go deeper and um with the existing tank
would that be adequate? I don't know. Maybe it would be adequate if we once we figured out the the actual use. Um but would we have to do expand the leech field or do a new leech field um to make it in conformance with title five? And
I'm not I didn't know very little about title five requirements. I think you know once we're doing something new. It could be that we have to bring everything up to title five for the septic system and um and the will
obviously the issue is making sure there's enough volume and that um you know is there an issue of getting the water from that well to the emmon spear building? I can't imagine there is
but I'm you know that's that's a question for an engineer. Um >> right. So, um, if if that were the case, um, I guess what this committee would be
like to hear from the church is, um, would you be in agreement if we were to um, we we would assume those costs? I assume we would assume those costs, but you know, we have to sort of check
everything out um of any construction um of in of having an agreement with the town of Shootsberry about shared system. >> Yeah. I mean, we're part of the town. We'd love to we'd love to work with the town. You know, we want to help out the
town as much as we as we can. Um, >> we are a congregational church, however, so it would it would take a congregational vote, but I don't anticipate that would be a problem. >> Okay.
>> We do not have the money to invest in any of this. That's the only >> right >> if if the town is able to assume the costs, then uh you know, that would be the ideal situation. I think the um you know I think it again
I'm not speaking you know having any kind of authorization here or of legal review but I I don't see an issue with the with the town assuming the cost of um doing the improvements or you know putting in something new if that was the
case. Um, I think the the only issue would be um ongoing maintenance and that there would I assume be some sort of memorandum of agreement between the church and the town of Shootsberry
and that there might be some shared costs visav like pumping out the tank. Now obviously if our use was going to be more significant we could pick up a bigger share in that memorandum of agreement but that that would be um that
that would be the way we would do it. Um would it would it help if I talked now about my discussion with Donna? Um just because I checked with town council um and I don't know if you guys can stick around. you know, she had some
some questions that um uh but >> yeah, go ahead. >> Yeah. Oh, go ahead. And why don't you tell us what um what you learned? >> I know. Um yeah, now a geologist, hydro geologist um sent me
some information. He did not attend the meeting today. Uh but uh I guess first off uh a lot of the information according to him about the quality of the water um
should be with the board of health. >> Yeah. >> Um as well as maybe other information about this sentiment, you know, the kind of sentiment >> involved here. Al uh
notes that uh we're looking at bedrock close to the surface here. Thin glacial sediment uh septic would likely need to be mounded. I have no idea what that means. Mounded.
>> That's a mound. >> Go down to the lake. >> All right. >> See lots of mounds. >> Have that there. >> Okay. Um, the church has a dug well in quotes and indicates a pretty high local water
table. I think we knew this already. He doesn't know why. Uh, and I guess that's out of the question anyway. >> Rely on the shallow well. >> I No, I don't think we could rely on a shallow well. Correct. >> Then the other point he makes, uh, the
town well is contaminated. This is salt contamination. This the one over here. >> Any new well may also be salty due to road salt. Um things might improve as you move away
from the road and uphill and or go deeper. Um will need to pay attention to existing wells and setbacks. Anyway, that those are his observations.
>> Yeah. >> So far, and he's opened any questions we might have. >> Yeah. No, that's that's great. I um the bedrock was a question that we had talked about at our last meeting because we were talking about whether or not we could have a tight tank, you know, um
that could get pumped out rather than um the leech field. So, uh, the issue with the tight tank is it was like it had to go down six or eight feet is my recollection. Um, and, uh, and so that
would be excavating for a tight tank. I think it's used at some places at the lake, too. Some people have them. >> Then they get, you know, they have to get pumped out periodically. So, there's a, you know, there's a maintenance cost. So you have to weigh the doing like a
tight tank and the expense of trying to dig something into um into the ground there and that's that could be an issue. It also raises issues about the
fact that we're we're working on the town common. And so, um, I'm just going to give you a little bit of information, you know, from Donna. Basically, Donna McNichol, who's our town council, um,
said that, you know, town commons are considered parks and they're regulated by the legislature. So, so the town of Shootsbury can't um independently decide that it's going to do things on the town common that you have to get permission
of the legislature and there's something called um article 97 process and this is a you know this is a ways out. So the land is owned by the commonwealth. You know, we call it town land, but it's really owned by the and controlled by the commonwealth. And um the department
the state's department of environmental affairs um kind of oversees this. Um so for us as we think about you know can we do something there with the well and the septic system we have to be aware of the
fact that we have this article 97 that um uh we would have to um check out another thing that is an issue and um but Donna thinks she she basically said
to me look Don't spend any money on me right now. Find out whether or not this is feasible and then come back and then we can deal with the legal issues. Um but there is something called the anti-aid amendment which um uh prohibits
um uh mun municipalities from aiding private entities and excuse me. Um she said that she doesn't think the anti- aid amendment um would stand in
the way of us sharing a system. But again she said I will do once you tell me that you want to go down this this path and investigate that then you know spend some money on um on legal. So um
that's that's kind of where we are. you know, she said the the first step is is speaking with the obviously what we're doing here, speaking with the church, making sure that um the church would be on board for us doing this. And then um
uh and then we'll do some some more investigation about um feasibility and uh that would entail uh having a sanitary engineer uh do some
evaluation and maybe do you know maybe it's a perk test you know looking at what you know what we could do there for a septic system and then also So doing some borings or whatever, just getting a
sense of um of what would be entailed in digging essentially a new well. You might you might do it in the same location or you might not. But what we need to find out is um you know if the church is on board
then what's kind of technical um roadblocks or that that we would be faced with in um so we'll be doing this uh site site assessment site evaluation
um by so the guy who I spoke with when I reported back to the committee the last time Alan Weiss is works out of Belchure Town. He's very familiar um with Shootsberry uh has done a lot of work here both for
the town and for um individual homeowners. And he was cited by the board of health as a as really the go-to person. So that was reassuring that um you know that the person we were talking
to and and Allan would be available. we'd have to put this committee would have to put a scope of services together um and find um the the funding to do the evaluation. So, if the committee decides that that's
the next step, we you know, we'll we'll talk about that. But we just wanted to, you know, check in with with you folks. And um do you have any questions for us about >> I have a couple of um I have one question and one statement.
Uh, if you're going to put in a new septic system, and ours is working fine for us, >> um, why would you go with a shared one? Why not just put one in for the old library?
Um, if it's got to be replaced, if ours would have to be replaced, um, >> that's a that's a good question. We we might not, you know, we I mean, we might go ahead and put a whole new one in. I think the the issue um Mark is anytime
again you start digging up the town comment you have to go back to um the state that's saying well wait a minute you already have you know they they could I don't know they could say you know why not take what you have existing
there improve it um >> and uh and don't dig up the common's not that big and so Um, you know, it could potentially be an issue. I don't think they'd be thrilled with
the mound. We had to do do a do a mound on the town common. It's pretty small and there's not a lot of room behind that spear building, you know, off to the side. You you know, Julie's property comes a butts right up to it.
Um, >> and it has to be a certain distance from the well. So, you know, you're operating in a relatively small area. And I think that's that's for someone who knows a lot more than I do or we do um
to evaluate to tell us, you know, could you could you do could we do our own um septic system just for that building? Where would it go and what would it look like? and could it get approved by um by
the department of environmental affairs? So that's the only reason for saying you know we could take what we have now and improve it it would be a lot simpler. >> Okay. So in my statement is um although
we have pretty much assured you that uh we believe the church would be willing to go into partnership and we already are in partnership really with the town. It's not our well it's a town well um that was put in by the town for the
church. Um so that wouldn't be a problem but finances I cannot guarantee. Uh when we put the lift in, we took on and these are no state secrets because we've discussed them at services that are on YouTube. Um we took on a fairly
significant probably a 15 or 20% increase in our annual budget which we're now shortfalling on by 25%. And can we add any more to that? That would be an annual required cost. I
don't know how we could possibly do it. >> We certainly couldn't do it this year or next. So, um I don't see the church coming into a maintenance financial obligation for that unless
it's minimal. >> Okay. >> Like a few hundred bucks box a year. >> We just don't have it. >> Yeah. um with our current uh membership. Now, we'd love for any of you to come and join us, uh worship with us weekly,
um become members, uh or any of your friends or family, and uh and perhaps contribute to our offerings each week. That'd be great. >> Um any any other questions from the committee members, Paul? Uh yeah, I I
assume I'm not not sure when this uh agreement between the town and the church happened for the well and the septic, but I would assume that some type of agreement was drawn up back uh at that time. Are either one of you aware of that or do you have a copy of
it? >> No. >> Nope. There's nothing in our church records. Um, somewhere it says the date that the well was put in by the town, approved by the select board. Uh, I don't know if I've
ever seen anything on the septic system. Have you? >> No. >> No. >> But I'm fairly sure that what I've heard is that the town installed it, but I'm not 100% of that. you know, the the
relationship between the town and the church going back 200 years next year or 200th anniversary. Um there's been very very little that we can find that's ever been put on paper.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's always been sort of a handshake. And similarly the situation at the uh at the parsonage when we sold it and we were unable to find anything really with the town about sharing the firefighters uh fire department's water. The only
>> right >> thing we were able to find was one mention at a select board meeting in the 1970s in their minutes but never any kind of a written agreement between the two. It's it's a problem and we've been we've
been looking and and Donna was familiar with it just because it was you know a question was raised when that when the well was improved this summer. um town, they were it was town involvement.
>> Um and then the church um had to had to assumed costs associated with it. The town assumed all of the costs from the well up to the point of the church um foundation and then we assumed cost
inside the church because the well and the pipe were all installed by the town and owned by the town. So our only cost was inside the church.
It's a very awkward situation. >> It would have been nice in uh in in 1828 when they finalized the agreement between the town and the church if someone had thought to ask for another 40 yards or something
>> um around the building, but nobody did. >> So, we owned the building and we owned not a nothing beyond that. I mean a few feet by by state law we have use of a few feet um just by um adverse possession
law um but that's it. >> So the the church is on the town common and the church just has like church and as >> just a footprint just the very
>> we own our footprint. Yeah. >> Any other questions that um you Chris or Mark that you have or committee members? >> Well, I just wanted to to make it clear that we cannot guarantee that we would be able to assist with any kind of funding. We're already in a negative
budget and um >> I don't know how we would conceivably do it. >> I guess I just have one other question. when you said that um the congregational church needs to vote. So is that is that
just your parishioners >> here or is it some it's not there's >> no it's just local local membership >> local okay >> we are an independent well we're we're part of uh American Baptist Churches of
Massachusetts but as far as the operation of the church we're completely independent >> okay all right that's that's helpful Yeah. And >> I just had a quick question about, you know, what do you have any sort of time frame here or um
you working on any time frame? >> Um we we don't have any kind of deadline. Um obviously the the building is now vacant. The library is still kind of in and out of there moving some stuff and and um so I think they were hoping
to have access to it, you know, for the next couple of months. um this committee, you know, I'd love to see us wrap up um in the next two or three months um with a recommendation that
would go to the um select board and then um you know thereafter if there's money or other approvals that need need to be secured, it would go to town meeting. Um so you know we're we both we expanded
our charge a little bit by looking at at the existing town hall space you know as a as an option for um improving and you know with offices and so forth and then the M and Spear building is sort of
separate. The big the big issue for the town is that um the building in in order to be um covered under our insurance, it has to be in regular use. So even vacant
um we need to demonstrate that um we're in and out of that building for insurance purposes. Um otherwise we could lose our insurance and and if something happened, we'd just we'd be out of luck. So, um you know whether you
know it would be a while before anything could actually be done um because we would need town meeting authorization and you know possibly if we had to go through the um the article 97 process through the department of environmental affairs. You know that's going to take
some some time. Um, so it's hard to like give an exact date, but you know, we have a we have a a path just how long that's going to take. Um, I I don't want to venture to say because I don't I don't know what the timing is
going to look like. Um, >> but the goal the goal would be to have some sort of proposal on the agenda for this for the Springtown meeting. Um, I I have my doubts as to whether we would have all the numbers together. We might
I don't know. That would be a stretch, but if we really hustled now, um, we might be able to do it. Um, town meeting is this weekend. Thank um, >> uh, >> warrants articles would be signed before that.
>> Yes. So, a couple of weeks in April before that. Yeah. Um, >> but it there could be a contingent there could be a warrant article that sort of lays it out and gets contingent approval. Um, or it could come up at a special town meeting which we schedule
in the fall. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, it's um I think it's a question of um this committee making some recommendations and us having some numbers and some
um a develop what I'll call a development plan for the building and the water and sewer. So, that's so stay tuned. Um you know, you're welcome to join us. We do our meetings.
We meet every couple of weeks. We meet um uh in a hybrid form such as today and all of our meetings are recorded. Um if you can't attend and want to find out what's happened uh you posted so forth. Um
>> so will you continue to send us notices of each meeting >> you if you want to you can also get on the town calendar and see it on there. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, right. >> Well, a reminder would probably be helpful >> if you are if you send those out.
>> Okay. Yeah, because we send reminders out. Yeah, but do Yeah, do check and um as I said, yeah, you're welcome to attend any. Thank you so much for taking the time um this morning. It's been really helpful. Um and you're welcome to
stay for the rest of the meeting as we as we discuss things. Um so, um >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay, >> thank you very much. >> So, let me um just uh
just recap what I said about the my discussion with Donna. She basically said, don't spend a lot of money on legal stuff now engaging her. Um you really need to figure out is this is
this feasible? And so, um, speaking with, um, the church folks and then, um, getting that analysis done by Alan Weiss or, you know, whatever contractor we decide to
use about feasibility for um, the well and what we could do with feasibly susceptic system. So I think those are our next, you know, our next steps. Donna said, you know,
she's happy to jump back in whenever we've we have done that that research. Um the good news I'm you weren't here for the last meeting. Um >> when we um met with Cat Hilton, she was
really encouraging because um when I had talked to Ellen Weiss, you know, he was like, "Oh, you know, this this is complicated not only by, you know, the town common, but it's complicated um because you might need variances." What
we heard from from Kat Hilton representing the board of health was that they're very happy to work with us and that we shouldn't be um you know we shouldn't stop in our tracks
because we're worried that we couldn't get the variances that you would need and the variances are because of the locations um you know I think where things are you can't you still you always have to have
your well well ideally it's 100 ft from your septic system they can give a varian on that, you know, if if um so but basically I think the message and you guys jump in here um was
we'd like to see something happen there and we're happy to work >> and the variance would only be if we decided to do a different septic plan, a tight tank or whatever, then it becomes a variance of well distance and stuff. But um the other thing she said is that
the um water quality is not a permitting issue as long as it's being filtered out. So the board of health doesn't really monitor um the water so much as the configurations that make it healthy or not. So um at the point where we
ended that meeting, it looked like there were two possible paths. find out if we could use the systems and hook up with the church or do a tight tank and the well in that part. Um I don't think we
said and the alternate for the well is we didn't do that. So um so we have we're still at the looking at which path we want to go down and what are the pieces that will like the evaluation of
the sanitary engineer. Um and then just from what I've heard it looks like the septic system is um accessible and as someone said it would probably need to pump uphill. Um, but I've talked to Russ Wilson and pumping
septic is pretty common now. That's not a big W. Um, and then the question about um the well, and we talked about this that at that meeting that it's likely the well would um could be drilled to be
more capacity. Um, and >> true bedrock probably Alice saying that talk there. >> Yeah. But anyway, yeah. >> Yeah, >> I think this one out back here is 300 ft, >> I think. And you know, we got the records, you know, from the water res committee on, you know, how much water
we got there and so forth. And, you know, of course, it can be different, you know, 10 feet away. But >> Julie has I mean, Julie Taylor, so she has two houses that I think they've dug wells for. So, we know we drilled I mean
um drilled. So, we have some information. some history. >> Yeah. From history banned. So >> did did cat have information about like locations of Julie's wells because andics? >> I think the board of health has it has it. >> Yeah, we don't have that yet.
>> Right. But again, if we end up using the systems that are there, they're already established the proper distances. >> Well, except the well, the well is not existing well is not an option. >> But if you dug through, if you left it there, >> too shallow, >> too shallow.
>> Yeah. I mean it doesn't make sense to drill down through a shallow well. I mean they they would just drill a new well a new well even if 10 ft away but yeah >> okay >> it would be a new one. >> Yeah. >> So I think it raises the question of what's the cost and we don't know fully
because they had to go 600 ft at the library. U so what's the cost range for a new well versus you know our pressure tanks right here. Um, so one possibility
is to trench a line from here over to that building, >> right? And I >> see what the cost is of that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And if it's done after treat, you know, the
line is broken off after treatment, you don't have to have any additional filters or treatment. And then you know 15,000 I'm sorry 1 1500galon tank that's a good size tank
and you know they have very limited use whatever we use that >> it's not going to be >> it's going to be limited. >> Yeah. Uh and just to throw out have the table good and and >> Oh yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Table four
>> the board of state examiners of plumbing and gas fitters minimum facilities for building occupancy. And so under places of assembly where it's meeting hall, meeting halls, galleries, libraries, banquet halls,
funeral, funeral parlors, gymnasiums without permanent seating. It says one. So they haven't broken into male and female. >> So it says for female one per every 25
up to 200 and male is one per 50 up to 200. So >> that's bathroom. >> Bathrooms. Yes. And then there's this other uh classification places of business which includes banks, salons,
veterary clinics, offices. >> Um that's one per 20 up to 100 for female and one per 25 up to 100. So my thought is hopefully we could get away
just with one Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um the uh what Alan Weiss um said when I I had just spoken with him on the phone and was talking to him about, you know,
what we had been discussing about whether or not we could come over here for the water or come over here for the sewer. Over here, meaning to the town hall. Um he said the water would be a whole lot easier than the septic septic. um the septic is a lot more complicated.
So it's conceivable that we just divide it you know that we say this ex if this existing well here which is contaminated with salt we know that um but you know it's so it's not used for drinking water
um uh if that if that makes sense rather than trying to dig a new well on the town common um and then it would be a question of the you know can we use the existing septic I think it's all going to boil down to complexity and cost,
right? And those two are related, but the complexity is, you know, part of the complexity is that um article 97 process and um as well as just yeah, you know, getting
water over here. Do you need you need pumps for that or is the energy? >> No, you wouldn't need it. The pump the pump is >> sufficient. The pump is in the well and it pumps to here and it establishes water pressure via the pressure tank and
if you think the vertical rise there is very limited. So it's you know the vertical rise in the house still capable of pushing it. Right. >> So that wouldn't be be an issue that. >> And if we talk about article 97, which I don't know anything about,
>> if we are tying into a septic system, I'm not sure that it changes anything. So they might go fine. >> And then the water moving across three um is also not really um changing. >> It won't change the way the
>> physical >> configuration at the end, right? It'll still be the same. So I don't I don't and I don't know the answer to the question like even just digging there would that have you know been a >> an article 97 probably not that they're
gonna but I don't want to >> right I think that you know that's for Donna to tell us once we say this is might want to go and let her do that. I mean, article 97, you know, exemptions have been, you know, granted by the
legislature for many, many, many, many towns that want to suddenly put a, you know, basketball court in a ball field. So, major, major change, right? What we're talking about. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, um, and it is the legislature. Um
so um I think that brings us to the point of uh everybody's in agreement of saying okay what additional research do we want to do
um and you know coming up with a scope for you know seems like Alan Weiss is the way to go we can through the procurement process because this is a all contract. Um I don't think we have an issue and I will double check that
with um our town administrator. Um so first coming up with the with the scope, what do we need to know? What can what can he do? What else you know what other third party assistance we need? And then we have to secure the money for
it. um and then you know going ahead and getting that underway is part of our research gathering because what we're trying to get to I think here is some recommendations
and attaching some numbers to that um is going to be important just you know having a range obviously we're not going to have anything um we're not going to have bids but we would know Okay, let's say we can use the exist existing septic
system. We have to um just get the on the at the church. Um we just need to get the um the pipes and everything there. You know, what would that entail? And then either what would it cost if we
were either going to dig a new well on the town common or try to use the well over here. um what's what's involved. So, he was I mean his uh firm does, you
know, a pretty broad range of things, but he's out of town. He's breachable, but he's not he's not available to meet with us um till probably midFebruary. Um
>> but he's open to meeting with us. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think he meet with us. But I, you know, um I I would rather I I guess what I what I would recommend doing because I'm trying to keep this process moving
>> is if we could come up with some sort of a scope that he could look at and you know, we could go back and forth with him about you know, he might say, "Oh, well, do you need you need this done? You need so soil borings or do we need a perk test?"
So, we get a budget together, too. Um, for his time and any other third party. Um, but yeah, he's not going to want to spend a lot of time with us without getting paid. I think he's, you know, his hourly rate was 141 135 140
something in that neighborhood. Um, and we, you know, given Cat's enthusiastic endorsement of him and just knowing he knows a lot about town, I think if, you know, makes a lot of sense. >> Um, so, but when we're not asking for a
really broad thing, we're we're going to try as a committee to say this is the path we're thinking and then he looks at it and says um this is how it would work and what the cost for. So, so are we ready to say this is the path we're looking for?
>> Seems to me we're looking for the better options here. >> Yeah. >> Best options. And >> yeah, I think the the path is um you know the options that are available to us. So for the septic, I think we would want to concentrate on
using the existing system, right? And if that needs improvement or whatever, then so be it. That will be a cost that would be assumed by town of Shbury. >> Water, we could go one of two ways. We could say digging a new well,
>> drilling. >> Okay, sorry. Drilling a new drill that into my brain, Susie. Drilling a new well or using um well, town hall. Well, >> I think his investigation would be
telling us his recommendation >> of which which way to to go and he might say you drill a new well, we have bedrock there. You probably guys are probably going to be down 600 ft. It's going to be going to cost you $50,000
for a well. I I have no idea what they cost. But if you say you can come over here, okay, now we have to dig. We have to trench. We have to go underneath um Hullyville Road in front of town hall
and then trench back to um the existing well which we assume has the capacity to you know for the water that's needed for the the immense sphere building. And I I think I mean that's way I would
think about laying it out is saying you know here here are the paths that we see being taken. What's the anal you know what kind of analysis um what's it going to cost us for you to
provide recommendations to the feasibility of any one of the you know those three things we talked about. So, it just needs to be written up in such a way as as um we're you know as I
guess we if we have a draft scope um he could always give us comments back or could get somebody somebody who's knowledgeable maybe Al Warner um to say is this is this what
does this make sense? Yeah. >> So, um I think before that there's Have we decided that there's definitely going to be a bathroom movement? >> Yes, I think we did dec I think >> I don't think Well, we certainly haven't
voted. So, I I guess I'm feeling at this point we could go through the steps votedwise. >> Okay. And then and then and then you know so we vote on that say I mean I think I'm guessing we're going to say yes there's going to be bathroom. So
then the question is okay how is how are we suggesting that spear is used and how are we suggesting or are we suggesting some reorganization of town hall because there's going to be
cost to that. So, you know, if we're going to pursue reorganization and town hall, then that need that's another cost that we need to >> buy. Um, you know, we know that, um,
from what we information we got from Devon, um, that 900 square foot foot building, if the police were there, is still very small for a local police department. And
you know, we have other thoughts about whether that's a good idea for them to be there, whether it'd be better to reconfigure this area and create space, which obviously is smaller than that,
but it's larger than what they have. >> And I think that we can look at these decisions in stages. you don't want to make a decision that precludes some of the future options. But I do think whatever we do um like if we if we go
ahead to figure out the bathroom then we have the capacity to have meetings with a bathroom or anything with a bathroom then the use of the spear um doesn't have to get it um it's not closed out by not having a bathroom because there's a
bathroom. Um, but I don't think we need to settle all the uses of the spear yet. And um, but you're right that the cost to reorganize town hall and I think actually that comes before understanding more about
the uses of the spear. um because I don't think we um we we ra we ended up raising some questions and um the space in here seems to be an answer for some of the questions that have been raised
by this process. So, I I would say that we vote on the bathroom and then we vote on um our ideas of town hall's physical reorganization. um all with the goal of clarifying how
we use the spear and and I can see that being done in stages so that even if we come to town meeting at whatever time we're looking for this step to be the bathroom and then we're looking for and
we could be simultaneous it could be the funding to redo this room but I guess I feel we can clarify as a committee if we're going to say yeah reorganizing town hall is step two. >> Um and then continuing to understand the
ways we can use a sphere is step three. >> I would agree. Um I just also want to note that I I hear voices that are concerned about the use of the spear and >> Oh yeah.
>> They want to be, you know, they want to be a part of the process in some way. Well, I I yeah, I think um yeah, we can talk some more about that. I think we um we were sort of charged with saying what
are the town uses that and and that that that's the highest priority. And then if if the town uses if we say there's, you know, the town doesn't need it for anything, no departments or whatever, um or uh town
meeting space, then we could go beyond that. But that's kind of why we did the survey, the town boards and committees, too. >> So, if I could just follow up on Sus's comments for a moment. Right. I one of the things that kind of became clear to me, you know, early on in this
process was that the um you know, independent of of the spear building um the police issue is a major one as well. And that kind of led into the whole reorganization of this >> town hall and so forth. >> I'll call you after.
>> Can Mark, can you mute yourself? >> Oh, you did. Okay. Thank you. So, >> sorry. >> I I guess I I don't want to get stuck in a situation where we kind of commit to upgrading the spear well and septic and
also have to deal with the police and decide that this space or whatever is the best for them. Therefore, we're committed to two big projects, you know, simultaneously. Basically, I like the idea of being able to kind of space things out. come back to town meeting a
year from now maybe you know with phase two or phase three or whatever. So I just don't want to get caught in a situation where we find we have to do something about the police situation and we have to do something over there and they may not be compatible. We have to
do two independent major projects. So, do you think that um changing the inside of town hall would also need to be in front of a annual town meeting? >> No, I didn't think so. So, the money >> So, it could be Paul that we do the town
hall >> the money the money part of town meeting. >> Yeah. >> So, the um plan, >> not the plan. So then that would put the town hall reorganization first and then the bathroom second and then future uses
of the spear third. >> So So you could envision, if I follow you correctly, um phase one >> move the police possibly down here, >> phase two, you know, do something with spear for whatever we decide to use it
for. And then you know phase three, four, five, beyond it. >> And I I guess I realized in your conversation that we are talking about a recommendation >> right >> to the select board and then the select
board to the town. But I believe perhaps the reorganization of the space and town hall is not so much a um annual town meeting vote of um
well yeah well the and kind of the direction of the use of the spear because that's where we started how we're going to use the spear >> but I think we have made clear that we have to reorganize the space in town hall and I'm not sure how much it would
cost because at least we're not dealing with bathrooms here or entrances. We're dealing with walls. Um and so I think that's going to be different. >> What's your sense Stephen? You know in kind of relative ballpark of I mean is this a major project to re redo town
hall with what we've talked about new walls and you know so forth. >> Well and first I ask you what what do you mean by major in terms of cost? Well, >> I mean, >> however you want to interpret. I mean, is this a big project?
>> I think it's more of a I mean, I'll call it cosmetic. In other words, you know, taking that wall down, that wall has no structural relevance. Moving it, no structural relevance. Um, the kitchen, that was the other thing, redefining
that. Um, again, no structural issues. It's more reworking. um >> you know figuring out how to I mean the kitchen can certainly be a lot smaller. So, you know, you're going to maybe get rid of the existing behemoth stove and
put in, you know, a residential size, which, you know, going to be more than adequate or even an apartment size, which would be even narrower, but, you know, you'd still have a certain amount of counter space, still the dishwasher, uh, >> sink. >> So, there's some plumbing costs. You
know, there's a radiator that would, uh, need probably need to be moved. Not a big deal. I mean, you know, there's all these it's more than just moving walls. There's going to be some electric. There's going to be some plumbing, but it's not um there's no structural
issues. >> So, we might be talking say 20 tens of thousands of dollar $20,000 maybe something like that. I bet you know what >> library was $9 million. >> Well, it's different though. It's different. >> That was site development and IR. This
is really, >> you'd be amazed >> might be more homeowner renovations and you know how it gets more than people anticipate, but I think that this is not a homeowner either. It's not like >> construction.
>> Yeah, I understand that >> talking about a little bit of money. >> Yeah. Oh, I you know, my my guess even though we're not it's it's modest, you know, upwards of $50,000. I wouldn't be that would not surprise me in the least.
Yeah. Because once you get once you have to pay for bail and wage once you have to move even moving walls once you have to deal with um the you know say it was the police department down here. So there were
needs we this which probably don't best. Dare I say >> oh I would I would be willing to guarantee you that. >> Yeah. So those things to change asbesus removal which we've done some in the town
already. >> Okay. So not a small project. >> It's not a small project >> versus you know new well 20 to $30,000 maybe you know septic >> you'd have other improvements. So you know we're talking about a similar
ballpark at least. At least at least. Yeah. >> And so I like the idea of us proceeding like on two tracks, you know, dealing with the with the town hall, which I think we always were interested
and then just gathering some preliminary information about the bathroom costs and the well costs. And that that's that's small dollars, but it it gives us a piece of information about whether or not that's even feasible. So, we could proceed with
doing some um kind of deeper dive into this building, taking the plans that we have. And I would guess that that that we would need to um engage
somebody to unless Stephen's willing to do this um to do drawings and to give us estimates um about what it would take to um to create this
space down here that we could figure. So, >> so are we assuming that we're creating a new police station? >> I don't think we're assuming I think we need to decide that or not. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah. I mean, before we we even get into, you know, contracting with
someone for plans and so forth, we need to know what, you know, what we need. >> If we need a new police station here, then they need to know that right off the bat. So, so is that question one for us? >> I think so. Yeah, that's my guess. >> And it's recommendation. Right. So maybe
we do recommendations sooner rather than later because I was thinking, you know, we have to, you know, we have to >> like collect all this information, but >> if we're going to get stopped in our tracks by whatever. >> Yeah. Um why not develop some
recommendations >> and then figure out what additional um what additional due diligence I'll call it we have to do. Um
is are you guys feeling that we're at the the point now? I mean, we're we're at some decision points. We have to make a decision about um bathroom or no bathroom. Uh but and engaging, do we want to engage Alan
Weiss to give us information that's going to be helpful about how we use the MNER building? And do we want to engage somebody to again jump in here if I'm if
>> well you know I would then go to Pat Wilson who's the one that has the capacity to do drawings and you know work with her to get something that would be defined enough to uh have a
contractor contractors look at it to give us estimates. So, I mean that's great if we, you know, if we could do that without having to on a volunteer basis. I guess my question would be um any plumbing or electrical issues
because the that the sort of HVAC it is is where I I look at this and I go oh my god like there are pipes everywhere and like you you're putting up walls and how do you allow for
especially with a police station say it was a police station um it has to be s totally soundproof roof and you have stuff. >> Well, see see the pipes as they pass through the wall above the door there be the same thing. >> Same thing. So, it's just insulated around there.
>> Yeah. What's the touch your sheetrock to fit around and then you fill any voids and seal it and >> sad. So I guess one one question that I have is you know I my sense is that the police
department uh and Haley both uh feel that that's that's the place they want. Right. So if our recommendation is uh that we reorganize here, do we uh I mean
I expect that they'll say a town meeting if it's brought up that way that you know this is our recommendation because we're ask we're asking to ask the town or do we start? Well, it would only be about money. It comes to the select board first and then or you know it
could we I think the process is is that something would go to the select board um as the you know overseers of town buildings um for town meeting purposes. Let's say, you know, we decided
we wanted to put an article on we this committee because we weren't getting nobody else wanted to do it. You know, we we could put an article onto the town meeting warrant, but yes, it's better if you have some consensus. And you know,
my my I I think everybody kind of jumped to that to the Emmenser building being for the police station because nobody really thought about, you know, could it go here, >> right? That's why
>> so that's our pre presentation to the select board to say that um in our review of things this is the path that seemed to be um sort of solve several
problems at the same time costs about this much and can be implemented in stages. Um and that our big picture plan is that that we want to recommend is you know first reorganizing town hall,
second yeah getting a bathroom and third expand or thinking more about the uses >> with the with the spear having a bathroom in it. And I think if we came armed with at least information about the ba bathroom piece of it, it would be
helpful because you don't you when you when you were talking in the abstract with like no dollar signs attached, right? >> It um >> you know, I think that holds for what we're doing here. It's just having some basic
idea about money. Um, >> you know, what if what if we found out that it was cheaper to put the police department over there? >> Um, you know, with the new bathroom and whatever other adaptations.
>> Um, but we already went through a part where if we put them over there, it would involve changing the building significantly enough to have to bring it up to code. We've gone through that part of the discussion. Um, it didn't change
just putting in the bathroom. It did change if there were other changes in the building that would bring it uh need to go up to code. I believe we >> the change it was a change in >> the change yeah create a change in use
that was significant enough to invoke a ch u meeting code and bring it up to code. >> So that's pretty definite. High five. >> Yeah. I'm not >> I'm not >> I don't I don't think that's that was my interpretation. >> Been a while. >> Yeah.
What I do remember was >> Yeah. >> As long as it was a meeting space, >> which it currently is, there was no need to put in a bathroom. Right. >> Um, and then I do remember uh
a comment in response questions being as long as you're not doing gutation at least when in there I said that the improvements would be uh you'd want to improve the heating system
and that that falls into some of the energy issues which we might be able to get grant money for. >> Um, and there'd be partition walls and associated electrical for the spaces. Um,
so you know, and I don't know what else they would like, but >> I think security >> I think. So this So I'm looking at the minutes from December 18th, number four. That's when Steve gave us even gave us
his report. And then in the um in the police request to um originally he was talking about a few cosmetic things, but it also included security, >> right?
>> Um and um >> entrances, I believe. >> Yeah, I think the entrance. Um, and they were going to need to build storage there. Um,
um, and then really the the booking thing became a more clear idea of how that space would need to have a way to get um, >> a booking room, >> a booking room that is more private. Um,
so I I thought we did talk about it from the notes of that meeting that um at what point is it considered um a change of use and a a permanent department did not sound like office space in the same
way of the library being called an office space. Stephen, that the information about this came from the building inspector in your conversation with him. Is that right, >> Mr. Right. >> Yeah. So, >> was was he presented with the
possibility of it like becoming a police station when you had that conversation? And if not, does it make sense to talk to him again about that possibility and see what his response is? Um, terms of, you know, code implications.
>> I see that I have, you know, I don't remember the specifics. So, I'd say revisiting with him would be >> So, here's here from your the minutes from that full Yeah, I wasn't under the impression
Susie and then again I'm just looking at these. >> Well, I think you know once a change so change of use from meeting to office space for that that was that's really that would then necessitate the bathroom >> the ba the bathroom that's that is what
I >> Yes, but we're going to do the bathroom anyway. So that's kind of movement. >> It was it was the code >> but I don't think I don't think it was clear. I mean I know one of the things was was stated is you know you need some plans
that can be reviewed >> and then that will impact whether or not you have to bring things up to code. >> Yeah. But and even if we do >> but he clearly did say I remember you know about as long as you because I was
trying to find out when do we have to meet the current code and when he said if you're doing a gut rehab. >> Yeah. >> Which so many question >> I don't imagine. >> Yeah I know we down one one path.
>> Yeah. >> Well what if we um what if we did this? What if we went a little bit further on the design here and you know for this existing space
what that re what the reconfiguration would be um as best we can I don't know if um this is something Pat Wilson can help us with you know if we needed to
speak to you know an electrician our HVAC people. Um, maybe not. Maybe this is maybe I'm just worrying needlessly. Um, but
what would that look like? And at the same time, um, gathering the information about the bathroom because bathroom, we're going to need that regardless, right? regardless of what we do with that
building, we bathroom. So, doing a um you know, getting Alan Weiss on board to address the issues with the with the um the subject and the water. Um,
and then kind of going before the legboard and saying here's where we are and here's what we see as the next steps. And particularly if it's going to involve us um uh
spending any more money than the initial sanitary engineer evaluation. that that's you know that's going to be useful regardless of whether it's a police station or it's not a station determined you need to have a bathroom
there. There's um there's a woman who's uh on the building committee who >> Oh, yes. >> Cook, right? and u talk to her about, >> you know, if >> Pat Wilson we refine this a little bit,
>> maybe she would be willing to spend some time and walking through talking about these issues and >> give us some kind of ballpark >> range of what she thought it would cost. >> She's um she um one of the owners of
Integrity Construction. Um so you know these are the two plans that show you know which everybody should have changes that we had talked about and you
know the one thing that I thought of today is one consideration you know I know the police department you know this is more than they have but it's a lot less than they would like we could have this partition instead of going
across column line come as close as possible to the door which would increase the space for them a little bit. >> Um it still makes that space much larger.
>> Well, a little bigger because once you move that wall, all of those things are supposed to be against it. >> Right. >> Right. And so >> hopefully some of them out of here. Yeah. A and um if they are going to stick into that space, that might not be great for entering into the back wall if
back room if the wall is right. >> Yeah. Well, I agree. >> Yeah. So, I' >> So, maybe we >> I'd say just leave it. >> Leave that. >> And it is bigger. Um and it might be better organized than their upstairs space and and and it also meets a lot of
the other requirements that they were feeling compelled by. So um >> and then remember in discussion and this they had brought up about sort of privacy in terms of coming in and how we talked about
>> fence and then maybe a gate. So if they were bringing somebody in, they could open the gate, drive in. So it'd be in an area outside that's we'll say fenced. Maybe that I don't know if that gate is
uh electric. >> And I think I want I think when the town makes changes, it you know, sort of looking forward into it is a little bit um too unde too nerve-wracking, too undefined. But so again, I think staging
these changes are probably better. So we might not do the fence and all that until they get here and say, "Oh yeah, we actually have enough privacy and um so I would like to sort of not um >> start with just the interior." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, I think that makes sense. >> I mean the privacy issue I guess it
could be soundproofed or something. I >> it's visibility. Um um so you're park if you're parking here and then um bringing say you've arrested somebody and bringing them in. Um, it's not like walking them. Well, now you'd walk
through the front door of town hall, right? But, um, yeah, I mean, here here it could be a lot more. >> I have a just a quick question about how frequently the police arrest people in shooting. >> Yeah. Even what I've se seen about the crime rate, the need for a separate
booking space and some of the things that they're talking about, >> I don't know. And when you start talking about locked gates that are visible and like all of this stuff to me in the ideal of community policing, you don't want to look like you're creating some sort of fortress here,
>> right? Um, and so I think decisions about space ought to also go along with with ideas about what is the act what are the actual functions of the police department in Shoots Ferry and
what what is really priority necessary for their space >> and what may just be you know something something else and those priorities I think should the town should have some input into that
somehow, right? It shouldn't just be some of it's legal though, Mary Joe, because I know um so right with the with the booking space like they can't book anybody here so they take them to Sunderland or to to Belure Town. So
ideally, and then that takes that police officer out. You know, granted, if you did one arrest a year, you know that I'm saying, you know, we're talking about >> like, yeah, >> that is a I always wonder how many people are arrested by police.
>> But the other piece is that um Devon's reflecting the state push, which doesn't apply to us because we don't have a zillion arrests. Um but there's a push and a shove. And so yes, I and I do feel like again in the staging thing, if we try getting this far, then we might say,
"Oh, this is actually very comfortable." Um, and so the booking space is in the plan and that's coming out of some of the space in the kitchen. And is that going to be a big impact on the um cost of doing it? I don't know. Um, but I I
think that that addresses some of their concerns without costing us a lot. But it doesn't I I I am not um ready for more than that right now. >> Yeah. >> I thought the uh space the redefined space I
thought this was going to be their evidence closet. >> Right. That was my impression that we had done any >> of the division within the bigger space. >> Yeah. They should >> and it is it's room like it's a little room that doesn't have any special it
might have something a little bit more soundproofing but it's not like you're doing >> a whole lot more >> wiring or plumbing or whatever for yeah for the smoking space. >> Well, it feels like we're kind of zeroing in on you know a good good
strategy here or plan. Uh, I guess the one part that still makes me a little uneasy is the fact that both uh Devon and Haley, you know, are pushing for something different than what we would be proposing. So, right, >> I'm just wondering if we need to have
some more conversations with them before we do anything official in terms of a recommendation at least. >> Yeah, I think, you know, I think we could do that. um when it's been brought up with with Devon when I've had conversations with him he's always said
well if you go this way you know it wasn't like was so absolute acknowledging that we might come up with a separate recommendation >> and it has to get through town meeting too so right you know that's that's
>> a place for you know for public input as well as you know other other opportunities I don't see the public deciding about how space is going to be used here. Like, oh no, you can't have a booking room that's 120 feet or, you know, whatever. That kind of micromanagement. It's just not.
>> But can the public decide whether the police are there or here? >> Well, it would be it would be a monet a monetary thing. I would think that would come and I don't know like a town meeting vote. It's not a
it's not typically a town meeting decision, but um you know they could they could vote with say there was a big difference. Say it was you know $100,000 to put them over
there and it was 50 to do it here. Um and those were the two options. Well then town meeting, >> right? But um I think I I don't think it should be a I don't know
>> because I I think you know I think Barry Joe's point about how does Shootsberry want the police department to say be what is their sense of the police department where it's located u what its
job is so to speak in Shooting um you you know, do we want, you know, like you do we want this fortress look or, you know, do we want to give them their own space? Um, you know, you you brought up the points early on about, you know, when they're over there,
>> they're over there. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. >> And here, if it gets really loud, >> somebody's upstairs going, "Wait a minute, what's going on?" And there's a sense of community presence in the community town hall.
>> There is. And so that doesn't have to even be, >> you know, it just is part of our community. So >> I mean the idea of private but welcoming to me. Yes. >> Seems like >> what you would ideally want to achieve with a community policing model, which
is what we've agreed that we want. >> I think everybody agrees that that's what we want. Yeah. including everybody that's interviewing for the the police chief job, which I can tell you right >> right now that that was what everybody said they wanted. >> Yeah. >> And and it's definitely
>> I know on my mind too because we you know >> talking about that with the >> the chief. So, >> so in terms of process, do we need Stephen to clear up more definitively
that the impact of putting the police department in the spear building would have a specific cost attached to it or >> your question really is will it require us to bring the building up to code? following up. We're really and I think
if it were posed to um >> uh Hawkins >> Jim Hawkins as you know we're looking at these two different spaces um we each each one has its own um rehabilitation
needs. But the the big concern is if we get if we we move the whole department in there. We were creating offices and we were I don't know I don't know if the electrical needs to be upgraded. >> They need they need to have security
system upgraded they said. So whatever >> system but is that there's no security there now. So >> electrical there's plumbing >> either way and that would have to be done. So, we'd be putting in the bathroom and we'd be doing, you know, an
upgrade. Um, I think there are state rags for police. >> Well, that's the certification what he talked about. So, there's two there's two levels like the police department has to get certified and then there's another
>> accreditation. >> Accreditation. He said we're never going to get to the accreditation uh part because that's like really big police departments. but getting certified and so the post commission which is the police oversight or
whatever they they are they're the you know they're they're going through this process with what does accreditation not accreditation I'm sorry >> certification right even that is still >> and it's it's unclear and then you know
what often happens in these cases is you'll have you know the post commission of the state telling you something but then they'll say for communities under certain population you don't have to come up to that that level because you
know the costs are such that you know we don't expect but knowing those certification pieces um how they impact the physical space is important and I assume you know having
that booking area in your own community where you're not taking a police officer, you know, out of town with an arrest if somebody's been arrested. >> It's what what we're doing now is not ideal. Would it endanger our
certification? >> We don't we don't have the answer. And because there's >> I think what he said was that the police chiefs are, you know, having all this discussion with with post um saying like don't, you know, make it so so crazy and so
ownorous that we can never get certified. >> So for uh are you going to be talking with Jim again? Is that the plan? Yeah. >> So the two questions in my mind I mean one is you know if >> if we are considering a a police station
there now and you could describe what you know in general general terms at least what that would mean in terms of the changing the space. Would it require, you know, upgrading the code? And secondly,
>> what does that mean if we had to, you know, u to upgrade everything to state code? I mean, can he just kind of list off, you know, the general categories at least of what we would what it would mean versus just, you know, partitioning
and and, you know, doing everything for a meeting space, >> right? I think probably the most significant thing is it probably would require it to come up to the energy code, insulation code, >> opening up the walls, >> the wall and so then then you're kind of
a gut rehab. >> Yeah. >> Because and given the code and given the insulation code now, you'd probably have to take the siding off, put rigid on exterior. >> Yep. And so
>> you need to deal with the roof and >> No, the roof the roof should be okay. I mean, >> lovely. >> Would they have to insulate the space up above? >> Well, it is insulated, but that would be easy to blow up. >> That would that would not be it. It It'd be the exterior wall uh insulation,
which I think would require interior and exterior, which means you have to reside the building >> and the electrical system might have to be upgraded. >> Well, you know, we're gonna >> knob and runner. No, it doesn't have doesn't have any knob and tube. Um, but to uh add more
mini splits, you probably want to and you know they're going to have more electrical use. So, you probably want to go to a 200 amp service, but that's a pretty small u addition. >> And this one just changed fuse boxes, right, into breakers. So, I I don't know what they have over >> they have they theirs is circuit
breakers. >> Yeah. What about in the basement? >> Yeah. this thing about the basement. >> Well, that would also be something that would have to the insulation would have to be dealt with there, but you could do um there was a energy analysis recently
which I accompanied them on and we talked about, you know, right now they have the underfloor space insulated with fiberglass bats, but the mice have done a number on it. So, that would need to get ripped out, but what you could do is then you actually insulate the exterior
wall instead. uh and that space from the inside and that becomes then quote a conditioned space. Right? Now, you know, when they did it the way they did it, the idea was we don't have to heat the basement. I mean, not that you're going to heat the basement, but there'd be
some say quote heat that would just come from convection through the floor. Um but insulating that. So, those walls, the basement walls would have to be insulated. >> Yeah. So the insulation I think would be the big problem because of all the
associated cost. If you could just slap it on on the outside of the building and on the inside without tearing walls up. >> I think you know whatever you know yeah we could get from him would be helpful on any of that that information. And and the other thing, you know, I'm going to have to leave
very shortly, unfortunately, but um the other thing I want to say is I think following up with Alan Weiss would be really important and, you know, if he's willing to come and, you know, sit with us for a half an hour at some point, you know, just so we can talk about, you know,
>> what we would need to pull together, what, you know, >> we would need you, you know, just kind of a planning session basically before we, you know, come up with like a scope of services or I mean, we can be pulling together board of health information on well locations
and well depths and um um >> so I'd say a planning session to maybe to develop a scope. >> Develop a scope. Yep. Exactly. Right. Okay. And then we can see what information we can pull together and then you know what we need to contract
with him for. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That would be help next step. >> And that he's late he's gone till late February. No, I think it was midFebruary. February. Okay. So, and I'm I'm going out of town next week for a couple of weeks. You're going to be out. You're gone.
>> I'm going midFebruary, too. >> You're leaving mid February? >> Mid March. >> Okay. Um the next >> All right. Well, let's Yeah. So, can we just quickly do like a task list? Um, so I would get into I'll get in touch with
Alan Weiss and then have him come to um are are you available to um to hybrid in to a meeting or are you >> Well, I'm going to be in Barcelona. So that's >> Oh, Barcelona.
>> I think that's six hours time. >> Yeah. Okay. Forget that. >> Good. Barcelona. Um don't worry about us. Um but Um, and you're Paul, when do you leave? >> Um, we're leaving the 10th till the
17th. So, not just a week. >> I'm gone from the 29th to the 13th. >> 29th >> of January. January 29th. Next week, I believe it. >> Right. That's right. Um,
>> but you thought you could maybe zoom in. I mean, so >> I could ask him. Yeah, I will ask him if he could zoom in. I think he's with family and he's in in >> What about states anyway? >> Would you zoom in? >> Um, >> what what's the next possible date? I
lost a >> what? >> The next meeting. >> Yeah, the next meeting. >> That's sort of when that's two weeks from now. That's before you leave. It's before I leave. >> Before you get back and then before but
but I could either zoom in. Okay. Or just like Paul goes. >> Yeah. So why don't we why don't we plan on February 5th >> then I will do my best and if I can't be here I have full confidence in you guys
and I will, you know, weigh in on stuff. Um I could see if Allan could come then. via Zoom and if we can't then we would have to um do 12 then the 19 February 19th is the
meeting would be the next meeting date. >> Yeah. Um and >> and by the um 5th, Stephen might have the details on from Jim Hawkins.
>> Yeah, I'll get information from Jim Hawkins and I'll talk to Pat Wilson, see if we can um >> find these a little bit. Now, we will not have any partitions in this quote
police department, which will add >> uh to cost, but that's going to happen when I mean, you know, she might be able to give me off the top of her head well or a like linear rough linear foot cause
partition and associated electrical >> is um so the uh combination if of Pat Wilson and then Anna would be the one more that we would give plans to to
>> Yeah. Pat Pat would be um Pat and I would work on the plans. >> Okay. >> You know, we'd have a discussion and and then Anna if willing, >> yeah, >> we'll look at those and give us some kind of ballpark.
>> Okay. Um, so we think all that will happen in preparation for the fifth meeting on the 5th. >> God, I hope so. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um and then um how about we schedule after that give
an update as a committee to the select board. So we're >> I mean I I keep them in touch and Brendan obviously is is here but I you know I have told Haley sort of as we're working this is where this is going.
Yeah. So I've kept her up to date. Um Brennon when the select board meeting is in um the middle of February >> um >> the third the 10th the 17th then >> third
>> is the 17th um that's school vacation week right but so 17th so then we would prepare um an initial report at the meeting on the 5th for the select board just you
know one page update kind of get that make sense okay good >> inch by inch >> so when um I talk with Pat yeah um you know what I'm assuming is she'll come
over here we'll meet over here and look at the spaces and talk about uh for instance the water the water uh the non-used water fountain that'll get removed >> uh because there's going to be >> in the hallway
>> and then I will just say well we're going to put in a smaller range and >> we'll put that you know and we'll move this and so do some simple reorganization >> in the uh kitchen area >> and then it may be possible I would like
to think one of those doors you can just leave for the entry to the closet. >> Um, probably the one with the door knob on it. Plus, that swings out, which is better for going into the closet space. >> And we don't have to define it as
closet. It's just more space. They can choose a booking room or not. >> But there's, you know, there's a radiator that will be in that space that'll get moved to the kitchen side. >> So, there'll be things like that that I see that this this because that's going
to be cost and then any movement of partitions um you know they'll all get electrified I mean that we'll just say that wall comes to where the post are and that'll be electrified terms of receptacles on each side
>> and the other issue for I know for the police was this the security here no all the windows is not having um >> yeah is sort of blocking those off I hate I hate the thought of it. But um >> Well, we don't know if just shades
pulled is enough. I mean, wasn't security like a burst in? >> No, it was like breaking. >> I didn't hear that. >> Bars all. >> Well, >> I think it is breaking in as >> really. I didn't hear that. >> Yeah,
>> but I mean it could be that it's alarmed. Um you know, and that would that would solve it, but no, it's it's definitely breaking in too. Well, there's going to be, you know, certainly a light ventilation requirement. So, there have to be some
windows. Depends on how they divide it up, but you could certainly just put a partition or you could put, you know, you could take >> say 3/4 inch, >> maybe not even that thick, plywood, and attach it, paint it. Yeah. Um,
>> but you know, that that's something that >> I mean, I can mention that to Anna, but I don't think we know what that's going to involve yet. Can you check with um do you mind talking to Devon about the um the windows? Uh just the security issues
with the windows. >> Seems like it wouldn't be too advisable to be in this space without natural light. >> No, I know. I I agree. >> There there's a Yeah, the code has like ventilation requirements. So, you could not >> cover all. >> Do you want me to do that because he's
got Yeah, I'll talk. And we do feed that back to Stephen too. That would be great. >> And unless it feels like it's too premature, I I wouldn't mind collecting some like health information about well and septics, you know, around the town
common, you know, this property and look into >> you will do that. >> Yeah. Great. So about what's already up there, how they found their septic and wells to work. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, well depth, um, I mean, drilling, you know, drilling logs, you know, would be great to have
for the local wells and and then locations so we know where setbacks would >> and to know whether or not we have PAS and other places too, which um, Brandon would have those addresses. I I don't agree that we need to look into that yet
because the two pieces of our solution don't involve that >> that meaning um can be filtered where the septic is because right now what we're looking at is using a septic that's already existent and water from over here >> just be a new well. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So so I I guess I would put that off right now um because it's information that may be totally irrelevant pretty shortly. >> Okay. looking for something to do. >> All right. Oh,
>> you can show them right here. >> Okay, great. Um, so we have the next meeting set for February. >> Did we ever approve the minutes? >> No, we didn't. Thank you. I kept thinking about that. Okay. So, are you a motion to um approve the minutes from January 8th?
>> We approve minutes. Second. >> Got a motion and a second. Um, all those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Unanimous. >> Well, I have to abstain since I All right, we have one abstension. Um, all
right. And, uh, I think that that does it. Thank you all. That was a long meeting. >> Bye. >> Okay. >> Copies of this. >> Would you like an opportunity to sign a postcard going to the governor about restoring um,
>> thank you every Yeah. Would you like one of those, Mary Joe? >> Oh, sure. >> Okay. I'm mailing them in on mass and Henry. >> And um there's two sides. Yeah. So, these are some problems we know.
>> Yeah. >> And then you can on the front when you're writing, you're writing as a voter or taxpayer or a concerned citizen or >> any of the above. >> All of the above. You can put many things on that line. Most of us are multi-eople.
Well, you know, we talked about, well, we want to get away. Yeah.