Yes, Henry. Okay. Hi. >> Hello there. >> Okay, why don't we um go ahead and um call the meeting to order. Today is uh
Thursday, April 9th, and this is a meeting of the MNSER library reuse committee. Um this is a hybrid meeting and the meeting is um being recorded
and we have um three members in person and one participating remotely and uh four. Thank you. I forgot myself for members in person.
Thanks Susie. forget myself some. Um anyway, we're going to start off by um going through um we have three three sets of of minutes to um review. First off and uh so we'll start with the
minutes of March 9th. Do I hear a motion to approve the meeting minutes of March 9th, 2026? So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Are there any edits, additions, deletions, corrections to the minutes of
March 9th? Hearing none. Um, all those in favor signify by saying I. >> Closure I. >> Lions. I abstain. >> Okay. >> Henry >> Gettis I. >> Daryl I. Okay. Um second set of minutes
are from um March 17th and um in this case our um this was a meeting with the select board. So it was just part of the
um select board meeting. So, do I hear a motion to approve our portion of the um meeting with the select board on March 17th, 2026? >> Moved. >> Second.
>> Okay. Any addition solutions? >> Okay. Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Lions. I to Elmas. I >> Dis I. Arl I great. And the last set of minutes are
from March 26. Um uh do or first do I hear um a motion to approve the minutes of March 26? So move. >> So moved. >> Second.
>> Okay. Um any um discussion, any changes, deletions? >> I did have one question. Sure. Um under other business um regarding the CPA grant. >> Was it actually denied
or did they say I remember you telling us Stephen that they needed a specific figure rather than a range but they actually denied it? >> Don't know. I got it. While we were away, I I received the email from
Matteo, which I had read and said, "Well, I'm not going to be able to deal with that before this is due." So, it was the two things. It was it was uh they couldn't uh have a uh s a range and then there needs to be some
participation. Those are the two things. Okay. And Henry was able to tell us last time that 10% uh of whatever the >> matching yeah >> bid would be uh would work. But I haven't even you know contacted Matteo
yet to discuss this more. >> So I'm assuming it was >> it wasn't approved. Yeah. I guess denied was probably it wasn't recommended to go forward. So Okay. And is it not on the >> It's not on the warrant. >> It's not the warrant. Okay.
>> Right. >> That's all I had. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um All right. So, motions made and seconded. Um all those in favor of approving the minutes of March 26. >> Your eye. >> Lion's eye. >> Delus I
>> Gus I. >> Daryl I. Okay. Great. Thank you. >> Um All right. So, um, next up, uh, so Susie, why don't we, if
you want to do the chart first, the revisions to the chart? Why don't we maybe do that and then we talk about kind of updates that we have? So, um, what we talked about last time and I think Paul, maybe you and Brennan, uh,
did was adding the the bathroom as an option here, which we all felt made sense. Um, and does anybody have any questions or do you want to just step through
um, what that looks like? So >> yeah, that's what we did last time. Um, so these are all, you know, all the entries, you know, in the chat for number four are the things that we agreed on at our last meeting. So we can
revisit them if you'd like. Um, >> yeah, unless anybody has any questions. I think maybe, um, we might want to say for number one now, Spear meeting space without bathroom. >> Okay. uh because we want to show that it
has use but not with a bathroom compared to four which is just adding a bathroom. We don't know how how it would be used that way but we do know that that's the difference between one and four. >> Okay, that's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> So put just put no bathroom
>> spear meeting space. No, >> no bathroom. Would we want to move move that adding bathroom make that number two and then um maybe also in parentheses uh adding
bathroom to sphere building and uh meeting space you know if it >> I guess we don't we don't know um we didn't talk too much about that and you know there's still sort of noise out there of what else it could be um
remember where I heard it, but like oh it could be a swap shop. So there's if it has a bathroom, it may open it up to being more different things. Maybe another department was over there.
>> Um it's just kind of a baseline. Setting a ba bathroom as a baseline in kind of kind of that's the general response. You got to have a bathroom, right? That's a baseline. It doesn't say much more than that. >> Part of the reason I was thinking of moving that to number two,
>> I think in terms of our estimates of cost, it's sort of the second >> Yes. Yeah. item. >> Yeah. Agree. I think that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Agree. >> Yeah. >> That up.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I did not include any footnotes for adding bathrooms to spear because we didn't talk about that but we may if we do want to have any further
clarification of any of these ratings we could add more footnotes. >> Well, two is one. Oh, actually one and two are footnotes to adding a bathroom, right? Okay. So, yeah. So, we would add uh
>> one and two, >> one underwater source. >> Yeah. Just like >> under septic >> same as like the police station. >> Yeah. Then the cost I thought those were
>> well that could be >> also um >> well Paul Paul uh organized and I met with him with the plumber so we have kind of a ballpark range so that that could be changed to >> right
>> uh something less less than significant >> right but but that could have that could be Um >> except for >> and that can have a number now >> this 100,000
>> uh yeah we talking about the the approximate cost or the um >> the approximate cost. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Wait till we get to that discussion then we can decide if it's accurate enough to actually put in
there. Okay. So the police has the when the police option number current two significant cost nine probably um greater than 100,000 at the sphere that was hooking up
well actually was that hooking up or simply making a well and a subt >> providing water I think is what we assume we didn't get specific about it Right. >> Right. >> So the the plumber was that for digging under the street.
>> Well, we we had Should we go jump into that now or? >> Yeah. Why don't we talk about that because that's going to relate back to this. Okay. Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's do that. >> So, um yeah. So after the last meeting I I had agreed to contact both the well
trailer uh to get you know a sense for um determining yield of the existing town hall well and the plumber to talk about you know the logistics of hooking up you know septic and well and putting in a bathroom. >> Yeah. >> Um once I get something set up I
contacted Stephen just in case you know he wanted to join us and and he did. So that was great. the two of us, you know, had a good conversation with a a local plumber um who, you know, was able to kind of pull ballpark figures out of the
air. >> Multiple, you know, >> caveats saying, you know, well, maybe. >> So, yeah, they're they're all real seat of the pants kind of estimates. But anyway, he was able to um initially tell
us when we even just looked at, you know, the the possible route to tie into the well here. >> Yeah. >> Saying I don't think you want to touch that one. That would be so expensive. And you know, >> one of the things that I don't think
either of us had considered was you've got three passings, if you will, through McAdam. got a you know >> the I'm sorry asphalt asphalt in Maryland it's called >> yeah so you've got a town hall you got
to cross you got to crossville road and then either a very long end run around the parking lot or cut through that to shorten it so minimally two maybe three and you know he said with the price of asphalt u he said you you don't want to
you don't want to do that >> prohibitively expensive I think with this. Yeah. >> And I had looked before we met I just went online and looked up approximate per foot cost to trench a waterline and it was a range of 70 to 250 a foot
>> a foot. >> Yeah. And I mean we didn't even measure but as Yeah. 250 ft minimum. Yeah. To go from here to there times. >> So $250 per foot. >> Yeah. So, I mean that would far exceed
his estimate of a well, >> right? Trenching looks out. >> Yeah, trenching is out. >> Yeah, I think so. So, then we talked about um approximate costs for um putting in a well, tying into the church septic system and putting in a bathroom.
um the well uh option which we knew from our previous research you know probably in the $ 15 to $20,000 range you know but you know you never know till you start drilling >> septic tiein would this was educational
for us for me at least I because I it wasn't just a simple you know run a line up there with a pump on it right >> you actually have to put in a septic tank a separate septic tank, right, by the library, right? So everything feeds
into that and then it gets pumped out of that tank, you know, up up the hill and so forth. >> So there'd be a tank and a pump involved uh even before you get close to, you know, running a line up to the church. And then that that would probably come
in in the neighborhood of $10,000 for a tank and a pump. the tie-in itself, the trenching and the tiein, probably another seven to 10,000. So, we're talking about up to about $20,000 for a septic uh to tie into the church
septic. Um 15 to 20 for the well. Uh >> seven or eight for the bathroom. >> Seven about for the bathroom. Yeah. A tight tank. We talked about the tight tank as a possibility too. Um, which
could even be cheaper than tying into the septic, ironically. Yeah. But a titank would about $10,000 >> alone. 10. >> Okay. >> But about $500 per year up to, you know, once >> pumped once a year.
>> Yeah. Uh pumping. >> So, you know, that's an ongoing maintenance cost. >> Yeah. Did he say anything about the um remember when we talked about the Titanic and the issues with ledge and and the depth?
>> We didn't discuss that. >> You just never know when you start digging. >> Yeah. I was I was kind of surprised that he um you know immediately uh poo pooed the idea of just pumping up to their septic tank
>> because you know I have uh memories of inspecting new homes in Maryland where this was in a development and this one section was below and they all had they tied into the public sewer system but one section uh was below the level of
the line. So each house right outside the house had a I'll say a pumping station with a masserator and I don't remember how many feet but it was a reasonable distance into the street. So,
you know, I would want to actually ask a couple of other plumbers about that idea of because, you know, he immediately said, um, well, you need to have essentially a septic tank like Paul said and then a pumping station and you're
only pumping then to their drain field. You're not pumping. >> Oh, yeah. Right. >> So, >> Right. Right. Um, >> so that's why we asked then asked about a tight tank because it's >> right
>> well we're almost putting in >> step tank might make more sense. It's not going to be used a lot. Yeah, the ongoing maintenance is cost. But if the if the septic system failed at the
church, then you wouldn't have the >> right >> the c and and it wouldn't get mixed up. Do you know what I mean? Having to have an agreement with the church. >> So can we go back through I just want to make sure I'm adding up numbers correctly. So if we were do let's say we
were using the the church and we haven't even talked about whether or not their septic field is adequate, right? is is >> No, there'd have to be an inspection done. Yeah. >> So, if we but if we were going to use the the church, conceivably it would be
we need a tank and that might be $10,000, right? >> With a pump. Yeah. >> With a pump. Um we need a trench and a tie in and that would be $7 to $10,000.
>> Correct. And then a new well would be uh 15 to $20,000. And then the bathroom it the bathroom and fixtures7 and um there's a potential issue there
that you know ADA requirements are that you know you have what eight feet I think >> I forgot what the number was but we didn't the existing one doesn't quite measure >> so they might have changed the requirements might have changed >> yeah he didn't know that that would be a
problem he said he might be able to get around that. But >> but still that could be an issue. You can't really push that wall in >> through the library. >> I mean, you could go out, but that's uh >> Well, you could, but that's probably a loadbearing wall, so
you know, you'd have to put a >> good size beam to open it up. >> Yeah. So, anyway, >> so so we're at $50,000 for a bathroom. >> Well,
When we talked to him, I thought if we just did the tight tank, >> um, that's the other one. >> It was it was more like 40 was was a >> Right. >> Okay. >> But that's a good range. >> Yeah. >> 40 to 50.
And then if it's a tight tank, we have I mean the the the tight tank lives $10,000 plus the ongoing. So you save about $10,000.
>> Well, so tying into their septic there's septic tank. >> Mhm. >> There's the pumping station. Do you have that? >> Yeah. Yeah. I think you said the tank with the pump. >> That was 10,000 for the tank. >> 10,000 pump. Oh, 10 for the tank and for
the pumping. That's what I had written down. Yeah, >> because I mean a tank would be very similar to a tight tank. So, I'm not sure why because I the way I heard it was there's the
tank, we'll say the septic, there's the pumping station, and then there's the trenching. I thought there were three items. See with the with a tight tank
um the big question would be how complex is theation right >> right either one you know >> because if it's a septic actually the septic with a um pumping station uh
because I think what happens is >> the the septic is to hold all the solids and then the liquid waste goes from that normally to the drain field. Here it goes into a pumping chamber say, >> right?
>> So that's another thing. So it's actually a larger excavation >> u for the tooth >> and then that has the pump and that sends the >> and that's another thing to break. >> Yes. Yeah.
>> You know, if you think about it, it's >> well, you know, and actually that's a good point. I mean the septic while it doesn't require pumping yearly certainly septic periodically has to be pumped. >> Right. Right. >> And that's not cheap these days. >> No. Like 400 per hours. Yeah.
>> You know 500 a year. >> Given the kind of usage >> given the kind of usage >> I would envision that bathroom to have the septic would probably uh be very clean because it would digest everything.
>> Yeah. Uh >> yeah and and and I think what we haven't factored in is any improvements to the leech field of the existing for the church >> right >> so then the question becomes um
can we you know I I remember um Alan Weiss you know just just talking about the geology of the you know >> common of that right >> um >> is there any way
um of determining what the >> Yep. to bedrock essentially. Yeah, there there are ways and you know you can have a back >> Al Werner. Yeah, he Al Garner already indicated and I think um Henry you you
talked to him also that there's probably fairly high bedrock, you know, right in the middle of of the town as you would guess, you know, right years old top soil kind of goes down the hill closer to to that ridge which is pretty solid.
>> So, um but you know, I mean that you know, we could probably have someone in town with a backhoe come up and dig a hole, >> right? And you know, you might hit it in five feet or they might be able to go down 12 feet in which case that's probably plenty of room to put a tight tank in at least,
>> right? >> Yeah. Would be. So, yeah, we could determine that relatively easily. >> Yeah. >> So, part of this exercise was to figure out what >> what the expense would be, >> right? >> And then if and then the pros and cons of that um choice. And so does it look
like we've sort of in general there are two possibilities and the range of prices 50 to 60,000. >> Well, I think if it was a tight tank it's closer to 50. If it's the um if it's the church >> it's well I had 40 to 50
20 40 it's closer to 50 plus any improvements to the leech field might be >> I think the tight tank would tight >> is the only way to go and then then the other it's not only what the cost is what um sort of the pros and cons and
one we just discussed that um the excavation on the town common is unknown. >> Um and um I guess that's what we tried to establish. Um the cost and the
feasibility and those are those are that's where we're at, >> right? Feasibility I think is still an outstanding question. Yeah. >> I mean, what what can we legally do on a town common? You know, what kind of permitting might we need to get and who gives permission for
>> for, you know, what kind of rent of changes on the common? We don't know really that yet. >> Might have to ask our historical commission to delve into that one, >> right? And and town council >> and town council. Yeah. >> I think it would be worth uh asking at
least one other plumber what their thoughts are about. just pumping, you know, having a pump station that has a merator and a pump to pump to the church sept. >> Who was this? Uh, who was the plumber
that you talked to? >> Casey Bashaw >> from Orange. >> Um, >> yeah. Was pretty well respected and, you know, very experienced. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I should have realized this. My my my in my sister-in-law's place up at the
lake >> um has a raise mound system >> and you know, a pump to pump up to the mound and a a tank that they have to have pumped out with for the solids every so it's exactly what we're talking
about here. So that is the standard way of doing it. >> Yeah. So yeah, because you know, as you know, as we realize, you don't want to pump solids up, you know, into a leech field because it just will clog your leech field. So, >> so a ma a masserator you think even work
or >> Oh, yeah. In in many homes that are built today that I would see that are in the county and have wells and septics, they'd have a bathroom in the basement. But in order to have a septic, your
waistline is leaving near the top and foundation wall. So there's a it's like a sealed sump pump. >> Everything goes in there. It's got a grinder, a merator, and then it pumps it up into the waistline >> through a much smaller pipe and then it
drains into the septic. So really >> tank >> into the septic tank. So >> here what we'd be doing is everything from the toilet sink goes into this chamber massery. So it it essentially allows you to push it through a smaller
line and it's already it's like a garbage disposal for waste, >> right? >> And you know, >> does it require water? The masserator? Well, you have the water in it from your, you know, when you flush toilet and and it actually the ones the ones
that are installed in uh bathrooms, you know, in the floor slab, >> they have just like a sump pump, they have a float switch. >> So, it doesn't grind and pump until you get enough liquid left. >> So, I think I understand now. So, then
we'd be using both the tank and the and the field at the church. >> Yeah. And that's and that's what I had envisioned as being discussed. >> I know we say the cost of a tank are >> right. Yeah. No tank. There's a lot less excavation. >> Yeah. Okay. I I I think you're right. We
should get an estimate or see if that's feasible or doable >> or permittable. >> The other right because that might be it. I mean it might be a title five, right? >> Title. >> So I do have a response from a engineer. Yes. So that's kind of a different perspective. Yeah. But I need to have
one more question which was when Allan was talking about this where the pieces were. So there's a we're still talking a well >> talking has to be somewhere relative to the septic and the and that and the well I I think we're low on that number
personally I >> because $10,000 >> it it's we have down 15 to 20 and I just >> that's a going rate the average but the average is >> and this is on a ledge >> and which is not a bad thing that could
>> No but it might mean that you have to go down deeper And so anyways, I'm not sure about that number. Plus, in my fin hat, everything has inflated. It's just it's shocking. Um, so I don't know where this number um if this number's up to date in
terms of talking. Um, so I asked Allan and he was like, "No, I don't think I the person here's some names you can talk to." So, um, >> this was about what? I'm sorry. about coming to evaluate the system, talk
about the hookup to the uh library and um unfort unfortunately I don't have the email I sent you but that had I can't find it. >> Okay. >> And um but the other piece is that when I talked to this one of the companies he
recommended I had to fill out my request in the box that goes on their website so I don't have to text the voice. >> Right. Um, so anyways, he said, "This is Christopher Stoddard from Athl. He's a business. I would love to help with this
project. A couple of questions. Does the town have a copy of the septic okay system designed with a system that needs to be evaluated?" The answer is yes, we do. Does the town have an asbuilt record of
the current system? Probably not. Um, will the town wave the title five review fee for this project? I think that's what we talked with. >> Has one in >> that that thing.
>> I I'm not sure where that one goes. I So, I got this this morning. It was sent out last night. Um, and then I have a couple questions about the well and water connection, but I think it's easier to talk on the phone or in person. So, I made a call back this morning. didn't hear back. So,
>> tell me again who this this is. >> This guy's name is Christopher Stoddard and he is in Athol >> and he is a >> he is a sanitary engineer. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, he would also be one to ask about,
you know, these pumping and he's the one that Allan in that capacity asked about the relative space of things and that's this guy's going to >> so this guy um >> Christopher Stoddard >> Christopher Stoddard I did not ask about
trenching the water over um from here. So I did not address a well issue for him. Um when I talked to Allan um I said there's three components
we're thinking about now to put a bathroom in the spear and uh I told him we have the permit and the sitemat for the church septic. He said it'd be best to hire an engineer firm to assess the septic system at the church and if and
how the hookup could be done. He doesn't have the time. He said Chris Stoddard and he named two others which are in a bigger company out of um that includes an office in Palmer. They are called
Hancock Associates. >> Yeah. Or did he say Ty and Bond too >> and then and >> but I think Stoddard's probably better. >> Yeah. He's a single off and you know and he he responded positively to my inquiry. Yeah. Um, and what's
interesting to me is when you're a sanitary engineer, you raise certain questions. When you're a plumber, you raise other questions, right? >> And I think we would end up needing um probably you start with a sanitary engineer because that addresses
feasibility and placement of things. >> Yeah. Because it has to be what I think at least 100 ft, right? The um >> for a tight tank probably. >> Not not the tight tank, right? >> Yeah. Well, it's I don't think it's the septic tank. It's the drain field or the
leech field >> that you want the 100 foot >> se limit where we can drill a well. >> So all those feasibility questions are as much a part of this as expense. >> Yeah. Right now, just so you know, from the the spear building to the
approximate location of the church's septic system is about 200 feet. the spear building to the >> where the leech field would be the 100 foot separation you need. Yeah. Now we've got about 200 feet, you know, between >> and the well be within 100 ft.
>> Yeah. Well, could Yeah. and discussing with the plumber. I mean, the closer to the building better because you've got to trench the line in, right? So, he was actually talking if we're in the parking area and the entry ramp is right here
kind of >> that corner >> kind of towards the back >> but not too far back because they're electrical lights. >> What about um Taylor's um Julie Taylor's Leechfield? >> Yeah, we don't know that. know where any
of our stuff is. I We would have to go. >> I Yeah, we would have to get be >> towards the spear building. >> Yeah. I don't know. So, it would impinge on where things, >> right? >> Right. >> You'd have to know where it is. Not
everybody knows where their leech field. >> Yeah. >> Sure. The board of health. >> Wonder if there's a distance to a property line. There is, but Casey addressed that and you know almost in passing and I think in fact did he look that one up? I think it's like 10 feet
or 15 feet or something well or a leech field >> to the property. >> I'm thinking per leechfield. Is there like can I put my leech field right up against your property >> close to the property line between my property and your property which then
>> very New England. >> I see. That's that's interesting question. >> So that's a question. So in the feasibility questions, it would be um figuring out where the well would be. If
it was a tight tank, then that's not an issue, right? But if it's tying into the church, the there's some awareness of where their leech field is and then we figured out about looking at other properties le to where we put our well. >> Correct. So
>> um I'm sorry. Go ahead, Paul. No, you go. Um um Chris Chris Stoddard um tell you how he builds. >> No, and that was one of my questions. So answered these, but he did say
please feel free to give me a call and we can discuss more of the details of the project as well. So yeah, that like this was also about if we go about figuring this out, what's it going to cost us? >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. because I I know that with um with Alan Weiss, I mean, he
said he'd build at like $135 an hour or something like that. And so, um, you know, in my mind, what we would want to do is um
make a decision or or think, let's try this approach and see what it might cost us. And then if that wasn't going to work, you know, have him have him evaluate maybe the tight tank because to me that sounds like maybe the more
>> the tight tank option >> option. Okay. >> Yeah. That that's >> that's a little bit simpler the better. >> Simpler. Yeah. >> And it impacts the well placement. It allows the well placement to be >> gives us complexity around um
>> like ongoing stuff with the church too and stuff failing. And I think a big unknown is what improvements would have to be made. >> That church's septic system. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But well, like I have I I was sort of
thinking um my septic system I don't doubt that it still just works. I mean what what makes like oh my god it's not going to be working >> well. But when it changes hands when it changes hands and you have a title five inspection guaranteed you'll have to make
>> that evaluation often. what seems to be a perfectly septic septic system. Suddenly you need a new leop because of the title five inspection. It's like >> oh okay. So the title five is >> title five will something will get will get get triggered as a result of a
change >> right. Well just to throw out so um you said 200 ft to >> well leech field of the church >> approximately. Yeah. Is the leech shield, do you know, closer to us than
the tank or is the tank closer? So, well, here's here's what I did. >> Remember, I said the trenching cost >> for the waistline >> be similar because I looked that up too and at the lowest $70 foot times 200
that's 14,000. >> Yeah. >> So, the tight tank >> the tight tank >> Yes. for another reason is looking like >> right >> a better choice. Yeah. >> Yeah. You don't have to. It's right there. >> You just have to factor in the
maintenance cost, >> right? >> And and >> which with low use, you don't have to pump it every year, >> right? Probably would. >> There may be regulations about that too. I don't know. You know, there may be like, you know, you have to at least do it every other year or something like that. I think with I mean we have
friends have a tight tank and um there's actually an alarm >> and when it gets certain liquid level doesn't matter how much waste is in it just >> liquid level alarm goes off and you know you got to get it pumped because at some point if you don't
>> things aren't going to go down the drain. >> So I don't know that there's a requirement. Yeah. Or how per say >> because it's a sealed tank. Um, so my I guess my question is, you know, we there's more information that we
could get. You know, what can we do on a town common? Are there limitations? >> Can we get a backhoe come in and give us some sense for where the bedrock is? You know, we could pursue that avenue >> or we could conclude that 40 to $50,000
is just not going to happen right now. So, let's not, you know, spend too much more time on it. >> Yeah. I I I don't want to conclude anything like that. I mean, I don't I don't want to say it's not going to happen because we're spending a lot of money on a lot of other things. And I I
think, you know, we can we can hand this off and say we don't have to >> through the select board. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we don't have to say we can you know pass it off to the select board say you know you make the decision if you want to pursue it further but you
know I I think >> we kind of finish up >> gathering the information and and not make that conclusion. Um >> and one other cost that's not in that estimate is talking to a san engineer.
So, and we would need to do that in terms of even with a tight tank, um, the well placement and where I guess there's no is there no limitation to where you can just dig a hole and put a
tight tank. Is that is that an issue? Um, I for some reason, not sure if Casey threw this out, but I was thinking 25 ft might be >> separation from the well
at all. >> Not far tank has to be 7 25 ft. >> Well, don't hold me to that. That's what I'm kind of remembering. Well, you know, one of the one of the things that comes to my mind is so we're talking about,
you know, what might be the cost of the bathroom and >> to get a more precise estimate, we need to spend some money, right? >> Yeah. >> Well, we really then in my opinion should get more precise cost for other
things. You know, it's like we're saying to make it a police station of thousand, but we don't we don't have any I mean we know the bathroom part roughly, >> right? But so is is making that the
police station another say 40 to 60 to be the 100 and then also you know if we reorganized town hall um you know that was a really offthe cuff estimate so I think that we should if we're going
to pursue one we need to pursue the others to get a little bit more accuracy. Um and I also think that we might be at a point where you know we could say okay these are
some very rough things and could say to towns people what do you want to pursue >> you know >> uh yeah >> before spending more money um even though you know it wouldn't be a lot of money to talk to the individuals about
the bathroom But uh you know I think there's so many unknowns with three and two and three terms of what the actual cause. >> Yeah. I've often thought that it'd be
nice at town meeting like maybe before town meeting to have a a few like straw vote kind of things. You got a whole bunch of towns people assembled, you know, right? Couple hundred people, right? >> Great opportunity to say, "What's your thinking about this and this and this?" You know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> The biggest problem is that um I mean what what a lot of people, you know, have have said who don't well, let's make it a swap shop or let's make it a museum or let's make it
a cafe or let's make it this. and um and nobody understands sort of what the form you know what the complexity is of >> right I wouldn't just open it up and saying you know what do you do with it but you know especially if we have clickers now you know right
>> you know a few qu you know sample like trial clicker questions you know that we can actually get some information from >> well so I mean we could do that and and or the select board could have like a a public um you know another public forum
um just just about the the building um >> we didn't have very many people do >> no that's the problem >> strange >> one thing I I' just to uh point something out uh uh it'd be good to get an informed opinion
that is to say that people might get informed uh I'm thinking of the the the matrix that we have already. >> Mhm. >> At least with some a better estimate of the costs as as Steve was saying, there are other
options there. We could get better estimates uh simply because I think the automatic response and we saw it in the select board meeting is that oh it's got to have a bathroom you know bathroom >> this is this is modern age.
>> Exactly. without any sense of the cost or complication. >> I agree. >> So, so an informed opinion I think would be I'm not sure how you do it. I but the matrix might be the the way to go. In other words, if people could see the matrix
>> and see at least a sense of the cost involved and the fact that as as as Susie was pointing out, costs are rising out of control. >> Yeah, >> that's an important context. But I think we know roughly, you know, I think these
these estimates I mean knowing right $50,000 is probably what we're talking about neighborhood of, you know, for the for the bathroom and the for getting water in there. Um and then
yeah, easily another 50 to 60 to 70, right, to do >> any sort of upgrades. And is it worth it? you know, is it does that >> and I think it's also a we can I I can
see this as a staged operation. So, if we decide to do something, it doesn't compel us to do more and the town the town's finances might be able to deal with taking steps towards a goal. Um,
and I think um I agree that the the um matrix could help inform people. Um, the process to get more information for like the um ar um the overhaul here, you might have to pay for an architect or a
builder or somebody to do the estimate. So, it's not only the work, it's the figuring out about it and getting accurate things. And if you feel like the accuracy I mean if if none of the numbers are accurate that's fine >> but if and it's still relative um but if
you are going to go through the process of getting more information then I feel it it begins to more compel you to go down those roads and I I'm not sure we I'm trying to think of where we could
set this project at this moment and sort of hold but >> yeah Excuse me. My my biggest fear, Susie, is that, you know, we always put stuff on hold and then nothing happens for 10 years. And so and and so we have, you know, the old town hall that sits
there and nothing's happened. There was a lot of discussion, >> right, >> seven, eight years ago about doing something and then nothing happened. >> And um >> Yeah. What I don't I guess I think we have a um a specific idea of the bathroom solution. Yeah. And the only
piece that's missing here is the cost of getting a sanitary engineer to make sure we understand all the pieces so we're really representing the right thing. And and I you know we can find out how much that costs. >> Yeah. And I think I I I think getting
that done would then I think that would be really useful. you then then move it to the select board and let let them just >> yeah let them >> make the decision about what whether or not they want to take it. So, does it
sound like I should follow up with Chris in terms of this is what >> that we're going towards the tight tank? >> Yeah. >> And that we're going towards a well and we need to know what the sanitary engineer concerns are for putting that
down and um then maybe a cost estimate from >> Yeah. what it would cost to kind of come up with a come up with a plan. >> Yeah. So the cost for the plan and then and then um a ballpark for if this is an option type
>> distance of separation between >> distance >> and then the >> and maintenance and and maybe what it looks like because if we're going to go to the um legal route of changing the town common we need to
know what >> we need to know. So I think we do that um kind of on a parallel track is just saying you know any changes to the town common what do we need to what do we need to um do and that's just a question
for Donna um >> but would she need to know like a tight tank including >> no I think we just say if we're putting if we were having to to do a septic system or a new well on the town common >> tight tank does not require a mound
>> okay The mound is when you that's actually the mound is your drain field leech field. >> Okay. >> So it would just be it's it's any excavation. So you know when they did the um you know when the church Brennan
when the church did the new line um there was no there's no permission >> there's no permission saw >> you know when they were shoots. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. from the town though they named
the town was involved. So, um >> and this is >> um so yeah um I will why don't I do that? I'll check with Donna. Um >> okay >> on uh changes to town.
>> So we're asking him for what he would charge to make a plan. Yes. >> And we're the plan is to do a tight tank. Yes. and a well and we need to know whatever sanitary engineer recommendations go into that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But he's not going to start the work because we haven't approved it yet.
>> Right. >> You might ask him what what additional information >> he need, >> you know, he would need that maybe we could provide instead of paying him to come out and, you know, find out where Julie Taylor's septic system is, for example. or would he need to know, you
know, like depth to bedrock kind of information in which we could maybe arrange to have a, >> you know, one of our residents with a backhoe come up and dig a hole, you know, instead of asking him to do that. >> So, yeah, what additional information would he need to be able to do a plan
for us eventually? >> Yeah. >> Knowing it's on a town, >> right? And and do we need need maybe maybe we should ask him because you had that question about whether or not
we needed to do we absolutely needed the the Titank if we were going to use the the church. Oh, you well ask him what his thoughts are about just pumping the waste from the library
to the septic of the church. >> Yeah. Would you would you need a tank? >> We don't think we want to go that route, but we're just curious. >> Oh, and he did offer those questions when we started to talk. this was
oriented towards using that and he wanted to know about the title five and the asbuilt information on their system >> and um he wanted to know
>> no those that's it. So the church has a plan right for their septic >> that's septic. Yeah. >> Yeah. So and do we have >> has this map. >> Yeah. >> We have this map >> had that >> but that might not be an asbuilt. I know that's happened to our septic system
when it got in what the permit said and the plan said was not what >> it was built in ' 86. Well, the plan was >> So, here's the tank and that's that's the drain field and
that's the reserve in case this >> so it's 40 years old. >> So, >> that's how old um I have to say. >> So, maybe even more than 200 feet. >> Yeah, we have to go to the tank. Yeah. Yeah. See, this is what I I kind of just
did an approximation to the edge of the field essentially. >> Yeah. We don't even think it's probably viable because it's going to be that's so a lot of money for trenching. >> Yeah. >> And that's a big mess. Then you have to repave. Um
>> Well, that's is that paved? Is that >> Well, the round paved. Not really. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I think I think our committee can make this decision which way we're going. We are only asking a set of questions. Yeah. We're going to go to it sounds
like tight. >> We're just sort of curious. So, we thank the tight bank. >> Yeah. Okay. So, I'm not going to ask about the alternative. >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. >> Unless he brings it up. >> Yeah. Unless he brings it up, right? >> Um and I'll I'll check on >> I filed it in the right place. I'll
check on the town common stuff. Okay. >> Um >> Okay. Anything else that we need to um research? Any other questions that we have? >> Well, you know, what about Steven's idea
that we should start getting cost estimates for all the other aspects on our charts, reorganizing this room and all of that. Do we want to pursue that at this point or hopefully not? >> Hopefully not. I I think let let's see
where we land with the um with the bathroom stuff and the water. Um because if we're starting at a base of knowing that that's 50 or $60,000 um you know we we we could get
we could get estimates from a you know what lever did with their their library. they brought somebody in and I don't know they spent like 15 or $16,000 and I I'm not even sure they ended up with
>> a decision or good cost estimates. Um, but it would be it would be like a design thing and you'd really only you want to pick an alternative like you'd either want to say yes the police station here or focus on that building because to do both would just you know
you'd be spending money and I think that's where the select board needs to make a decision or the town needs to make a decision. So, let's do the bathroom first and then um and then see what goes. >> And we I think we have to keep saying
this is having a bathroom is only an option. >> That's correct. >> And you know, so >> that's correct. >> Right away if I believe people think, oh, if there's a bathroom, then there's more. And >> not having a bathroom means police are
over there, period. >> Right. >> So, right. Um, right. Making sure that the presentation doesn't drive the decision. >> Yeah. But the but the the bathroom was sort of a key to it being a >> Well, they asked us to they asked us to
figure it out. >> Yeah. So, let's go there and then >> um >> then when we come back, we'll make a decision about our next steps. So, it fills in our chart better. Yeah. and it
um resolves some of the flexibility um questions. >> So you'll get a number from him. So at our next um meeting then we'll decide about uh proceeding
um about engagement with him. >> Yep. So the number we get from him is what it costs per hour and what he thinks it would take for him to do this plan. >> Yeah. And the rest of it is the numbers. You think >> the next meeting would be kind of short
because we would just be approving that and seeking the money from um finance committee through the income reserve for this this fiscal year. >> Um
>> just to have a plan developed. >> Have a plan developed. Yeah. >> Okay. Do you think he has general knowledge about like average cost of a well, average cost of it in a tight tank?
>> Yeah, it seems like those questions are separate and he can probably do that off the cuff, right? >> The fact that you make an engineering plan of where things go, >> um, that's a different thing, right? >> I will ask him those things. >> Yeah. to just to see if our numbers are
um if he could verify kind of what the rep numbers we were up with today. >> Yeah, >> that would be good. >> Yeah, because when we were finishing up with Casey, >> what I remember was tight tank bathroom
well, >> you know, bathroom functional 40,000. >> That was that was being a little bit generous. I remember he he would say that he said, "Well, you know, maybe." >> Yeah. >> So, it'll be interesting
to this gentleman. >> And I believe people are waking up to how much more it costs them to do things, the the doers, the workers. And so, um, you know, this guy might have some pretty current projects where he's watching what
happens, but >> I think there's builders and stuff that are behind the eightball and they're making estimates that are not working because the costs are not what they thought they were. >> Has nothing to do with that, but we had a building
meeting last night. Jeff Quacking Bush's daughter currently uh lives and works in New Zealand. He said, "You know what? The gasoline cost >> $15 plus gallon." >> Oh my god. Oh my god. Wow. $15 a gallon.
>> Not a liter. >> He said gallon. >> Maybe it's sold by the leader, but he for those who couldn't those of us who couldn't say what's that. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Okay. All right. Good. Well, this has been really helpful. Thanks, Susie. Do
you want to um do you want to share that with everybody before the meeting? We sure as long as everybody does no commenting back. But if you want to >> send send the information out then we can start talking. >> Yeah. And and if you ask him what
information additional information need right >> you could share that with us and then maybe you know some of us could start delving into that right before the next meeting. >> Right. That would be great. >> Okay. All right. So, do I hear a motion to please? >> Oh, do we know when our next meeting is
>> Oh, next meeting. Next meeting. Thank you. Next meeting. Um, today is >> April 23rd. Let me just >> Will we be ripping our hair out by then?
Yes, we will. >> You might be. I can't afford to lose any more hair. April 23rd. That work for everybody? >> Yes, I'll be gone. >> Okay. Paul will not be here,
>> but it's a quick meeting that I don't need to be at anyway, right? >> Yeah, we're just kind of reporting back. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, 23rd then? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Well, you know what? We'll see where I'm going to be. I mean, I I might be able to see.
>> Okay. Zoom in. All right. Great. It's kind of ironic that the very few places we have paved we might have to dig up. >> I know. >> I know, Kelly. >> It's a magnet. >> Thank Thank you to everybody for um your
work. >> Um so, do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. All those in favor sign your eye. >> Lions I g >> I >> Carol I. Thank you everybody.
Everyone keep going here. Susie before you head out. Excellent. I said before you head out.