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Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=B9g8m8Ep7II

Part: 1

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All right, realize I have to unmute the conference room. Now I got the big eye on me. Hello. Can you hear me? >> I can hear you.

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>> Oh, good. Thanks. Dean, I'm very happy to see you here. Unfortunately, at this moment, it's >> Good evening. >> Myself and one other member. We do not have a quorum. Thank you.

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>> Yes. >> But I start my campaign early. Anyway, is he coming today? >> I think he'll be uh joining remotely. We got >> just how good to see.

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>> Good to see you. Grab a seat. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yeah, >> I'm sorry I've been out of touch. I've been um >> That's all right. >> It's been um busy and I'm recovering from surgery, too. So, that was um part of three

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weeks. So um but felt good by the butter. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had leg surgery. So nothing. Um after my frontal lobotomy, I had leg surgery. So >> you had leg surgery last time. We sure wasn't frontal. You just said

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>> you had you had a knee replacement. >> I had two knees replaced. And um >> So you did one like a year or two ago? >> Yeah. Another one. Yeah. But this was different. This is um >> this is different. >> This preventing a deep vein thrombosis. So anyway, here I am.

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>> Hi. >> Hi. >> You know this guy. I know you invited him. >> Carl. >> Carl. Yes. You know, I'm here. >> Yeah. >> We're glad to have you here. Um, is anyone else coming besides the two of us? Three of us.

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>> I'm not sure. Keith is online. Um, so currently we do not Ashley is in the waiting room. Okay. So, we have to have a porn. >> So, Carl, I would say please have a seat. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, >> sure. >> I don't know if we're gonna get anyone else in the room tonight. >> That it's fine.

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>> I'm u gonna send my gratitude to Jeff here for >> I found out, you know, I've been off offline 20 minutes ago. I said, "Oh, it's hybrid." So, I just got in my car. >> Beautiful. >> Yeah. Yeah, why not? >> And we have >> Oh my goodness.

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>> Steve Russ. >> Hey. Okay. Evening. >> Evening. >> Different care here. You want to tell me? >> Oh, you remembered my start. >> Yeah, right.

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>> I thought I'd start early. >> And I figured it's going to be hard. >> Life is a candy. Life is a >> You know, Carl, >> we met. we were sitting with last selection. I came up and I said

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she's like Carl. I said Carl and I remember meeting you and >> you want to put it this way. I don't know how to >> put this position. >> Oh, sorry guys. >> Okay. Is that um I think that's enough room for

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>> Yeah, I think. >> Okay. Any more in here? everything just as needed. Okay. Uh everyone, thanks for uh bearing with us while we uh figure out our seating arrangements. The time is 7:02. I'll call this meeting of the shoots

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planning board to order. The meeting is being held in a hybrid posture in town hall and on Zoom and is being recorded. Now, present to the planning board, we

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have Ashley Pike and Keith Hasty attending remotely via Zoom. And in the room, we have Steve Brassler, Tom Seaffort, and

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uh >> Jeff. Jeff Weston. Thank you. >> It's okay. >> It's been a long day. >> Is Keith not on camera? Is that the case? >> Yeah, Keith is not on camera. >> I get it. So he's I can see him on the participants. >> You know, I can do I don't know if this

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perfect that option >> gallery. >> Yeah, I um I'm I'm gonna figure out you know some of this stuff at another time, but I think uh >> we'll know if we speak.

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>> So I'm Michael's not there. Is that okay? >> Yeah, I think I'm not sure. >> Okay, he's he said he was going to try and call Michael is uh is going to be joining shortly. >> Oh,

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yes. And Matt, our clerk, Matteo Pangalo is online as well. I got the meeting started for us. Um all right. So, the first thing on the is organization of the board. Um now that we've entered into a new fiscal year, it is time for

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um an election of the board's chair. Now, um let's see. I believe I've just completed my third year uh serving as chair and now that it's uh come round again, I'm going to do the same thing I always

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do, which is to um say that if anybody else is interested in in serving as chair of the board of the planning board to uh that now is the time to express your interest. Not hearing anyone express any interest. All right, let me eat a banana.

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So, there's a situation where you ask if anybody, you know, big chair, everybody else steps back. You're the one standing in front of it. >> This is like that that uh that scene from the movie where >> Yeah. >> ask for volunteers and everyone else

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steps back. That's it. >> Hello. Uh Michael, can you hear us? I can. >> Which Michael? >> Oh, Michael. Okay. You know, I saw the name Michael and I thought you were Michael. Take care of it. This is Michael Schaefer. He has business with

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the planner board tonight. >> Michael, we uh we did get a little bit of a late start as members trickled in. Right now, we've just opened a meeting and we're currently on organization of the board and um right now >> I'll stand by.

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>> Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you uh for your patience. Uh would anybody uh a motion would be good in good order that would nominate somebody to serve as chair of the board for the next year? >> Uh I would like to nominate Nathan to be the board of the planning board of shoots for a second. Fair.

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>> All right. Uh Jeff has moved and Steve has seconded that I serve another term as chair of the planning board. Um so is there any discussion? Any any last minute thoughts of wanting to jump in? >> You've done a great job. >> I am here.

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>> Hey, Nathan. >> Michael, you are here. >> Yeah. Can I know we're about to vote for you, but can you guys send me the meeting link to my email? >> Yes. >> Great. That would be great. >> Okay. >> I just sent it. I just sent it, Michael.

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>> Cool. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Oh, awesome. Let's see if I can get in. >> Yeah. I guess if there's any administrative tasks, I might try and rely on either Matteo or uh or Ashley. You guys are home and are a little bit more uh able to kind of do that kind of

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thing. Now, uh yeah. So, yeah, you got it right, Michael. We're just about to vote. There's a motion on the floor to nominate me as a a chair for the next year. Do you want to be chair, Michael? >> No, I don't. I want to thank you for agreeing to it.

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>> All right. Um, okay. Well, that being the case, I guess I'll uh call the role. >> Presley. >> Yes. I >> Okay. Decara. >> Hi. >> Who's next?

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H >> I prompt >> I >> I >> Weston >> Hi. >> Okay, we have uh I will abstain. We have six posting affirmative. The motion

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carries. >> Now um I also have noted on this agenda item that we'll see if it's correct. should be good now. He signed out from the other. >> Yeah, I'm here. Sorry.

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>> Oh, >> I muted us. I thought I saw it stayed with his laptop and I thought that it was coming from the room, but it was the um Okay. Now, uh All right. So, we've elected chair. Now, we'll see if uh if

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we would like to uh elect a vice chair. And before we get into anything, I'll just kind of explain I think uh that what a vice chair would be. Uh let's just cut to the chase. It would be what Michael does now, right? you know,

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when there's either something I don't uh participate in on account of u my uh the code of conduct I have with my employer or if uh I have an absence I'm not able to make a meeting uh or what have you

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know currently you know more often than not 100% of the time so far Michael's acted as chair in those situations so this would more or less just make that a seamless process and kind of solidify that. I would I would say that,

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you know, it's at the board's discretion to do this. So, for example, if if um say for say for example, I don't pull papers next year and and I come off the planning board roster. Um and they have to decide who's chair. It might be Michael who's elected as

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chair and and there might not be anyone that uh is elected as co-chair in that scenario or maybe there will be. I don't know. But, you know, I don't think that taking this action would make an obligation to have a chair and and a vice chair. Um, but it's just kind of

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opening the door. So, um, now first I'll I'll just say is there I'll ask is there anyone on the planning board that is uh has questions or more importantly has uh reservations about electing a vice chair?

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>> I have I don't have a reservation. I had a quick question. >> Go ahead. Was there a prompt or was there historically one or I was just curious >> why now? >> I I can I can answer that. >> Sure. >> Yeah. I mean it's I had I had told

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Nathan that I was interested in doing it. Um and mostly for the reasons that he said, you know, I've stepped in um sometimes, you know, it's sort of a last minute thing. it just seems like to make it more official and I'm sort of you know I tend to take on that

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responsibility and it's fine. Um and I think in the last year my antenna have been up so I think Lever has a vice chair. There's been other times where people have said they've had vice chairs so it seemed just to formalize it it would be neater. Um I I would agree that you know year to year we could decide if

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we wanted one or not. Um but at least for this year uh I'd be interested in doing it and I think just having that role would be helpful. Well, with that said, I would like to nominate Michael Decier to serve as vice chair of the planning board. >> I'll second that.

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>> Okay. So, we have a motion made seconded to board to elect Michael as vice chair the planning board. Now, at this time, is there anyone who would like to have a further discussion on this? Okay, I will call the role.

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Right. Seaford. >> Hi, >> Weston. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> From >> I take care of >> I >> and I'm an I. Motion carries unanimous.

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Congratulations. >> Thank you all. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, Michael, for all you do. >> It's official now. >> Yeah, glad to help.

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>> We are all saying I'll say that there's about a 50/50 chance that I'll pull papers and again on the planning board. Not sure want to do it again. I might decide to just step out of

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public life for a while. I might decide to pursue other uh volunteer opportunities with the municipality. I might decide to stay on. That's a clear possibility. But I just I'm just going to put it out there that there's a chance I'm not going to be here next go around.

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>> So, you can think about that as the year progresses. Okay. I'm not uh >> Nathan, I'll just put out I don't think Eric Stalker's running next year, >> right? because that was

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that would make my life less stressful to to go into Eric stalker shoes. Okay. Um well uh thank you everyone for a vote of confidence and um thank you Michael for you know uh everything

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you've been doing and now continue to do with the formal title of vice chair and uh we'll move on to our next agenda item which will be public comment. There's anyone here uh that would like to make public comment.

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All right. Hearing and seeing none, we'll move on. Landowner education and guidance. Is there anyone that's here for land? >> Nathan Mary Lou had her hand up. >> Thanks for letting me know. Yeah, that's uh

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Okay, Maryl Cona has her hand up. Um, Marylu, if you would like to address the board for either public comment or landowner education and guidance, you're welcome to do so. >> Hi. Um, I'm making a general public comment if I may. Um, I saw on your

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agenda that you're going to talk about the Lake Wyola committee and I don't know if you all are going to be the ones who assign people, but just to put it out there, I'm interested in becoming a

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community member of that group. Thank you. >> Oh, thanks for uh bringing that up, Mary Lou. Now, um, in order to become a community member, what you'll need to do is get one of the there's a form that

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has been, uh, recently created by the administration here, the town hall. I I would imagine it's online. I don't know for sure. I do know that I just saw a big pile of them up in the mailbox in town hall. Uh so you would fill that out

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and then submit it to the select board. The select board is the appointing authority. Uh the planning board uh gets a seat on the committee. It's a uh uh we still don't make the appointment but uh we we

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by default get to select somebody and then we you know this the select board makes the formal appointment. We we tell them who we want to put there. Now, uh, does that, um, that should be good. Um, >> thank you. Yes, I didn't know any of

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that. So, thank you. >> I'm happy to provide the information. Very good. Okay. Last call on public comment or uh, landowner education and guidance. >> Okay, I'm seeing none.

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Next on the agenda >> is the Plaza Avenue >> for 314 Wendell Road and 382 Wendle Road. Uh we've received a new plan. We've received a new form A.

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So I know Michael Schaefer is also on the call. Um, and just I'm going to catch everybody up a little bit on what's going on after the last meeting. I reached out to Donna McMichol Council

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and she suggested that we get um one form had the Shootsberry uh it was signed by the president of the Shootsberry Athletic Club but it listed

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James Plaza as the applicant and uh Donna said that we Shootsbury athletic clubs should be the applicant. Right. And I looked into this more because the basically in our regulations and in

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statute subdivision control you the applicant is essentially the owner of the land or there are signs right now if you look in the what I'm going to do is I'm going to see if I can

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share >> if you want to make it possible for me to do it. Oh, no. You got it. >> Oh, yeah. I can. So this is under the uh Shootsbury subdivision regulations

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and we're looking at you know the definitions in section 81L chapter 41 of the general law shall apply unless the contrary intentions clearly appears. In addition in addition the following workshop following meetings

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>> right and we have applicant developer subdivider. So this kind of talks about you know the uh must be the owners or their assigns and additionally the uh section down here on plan believe not

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required for approval notes the uh application uh form a presented signed by the applicant and providing all information requested. So uh there was that was that thing it's

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also the same as in the uh the definition of subdivision proact further we had a lot of questions about set batch with sheds looking at uh we there's a document put out which I don't have readily available

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but it's u from the mass planners association I believe or the training cooperative and it it also when you read the statute, you know, the whole thing is basically based on frontage. So any lot that's not a building lot

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needs to be labeled as such and otherwise every lot needs to have frontage on the road. So that was another consideration. Okay. now. >> So, here we go. >> Since then, we've received a new plan

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and we've received an additional form. >> I connect to this. Bring some of this stuff up. Okay. So now we have this is the first form we we received from James Ba signed by plazas

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here. This is the more recent form we've got and it list the applicant as uh Mark President and the owners as u signed by Mark and the uh it knows

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president Shbury Athletic Club Incorporated 282. So, it it doesn't say the Shbury Athletic Club is the applicant, but at least it's uh it doesn't say the plazas. We can talk about that more. And we've got this uh revised plan here. Can everyone see

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this? Okay. So, the the difference here is that uh they they didn't make another additional lot over here. They've only got this uh lot A which comes off the uh land owned by the

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Shisbury Athletic Club and they created a new lot one over here. This was on the prior plan. So this has 250 ft on the road and this is the existing lot which has

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looks like has over 300 feet of frontage here. So, does anyone have any questions at this point or um anything like that? >> What is the what is each form A applying

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to do? >> Well, it's u to do an ANR, but you know, time >> which which ANR is each form A applying to do? That's what I'm confused about. >> Well, Tom, I uh I was actually wondering if you wanted to recuse yourself.

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>> Why? Well, see there's a uh a section in the state department of interest statute that says uh initial employee

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participating in a matter where they uh have a known interest. >> Isn't it financial interest? So >> yeah. >> Yeah. I don't think I have financial

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interest in this matter. >> Is one of the applicants on these form currently engaged in a deal of a lawsuit that awarded you a sum of money? >> Yes. >> Was just putting it out then. I don't

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know if you could spell out the nature of the conflict that would help. Maybe we should get some advice because I didn't believe that this would be a financial interest conflict. >> Yeah. I Nathan, can I jump in? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I think a conflict of

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interest would result if the ANR transactions benefited Tom. And I don't think there's any financial benefit in any of those transactions. It doesn't necessarily mean that there's not

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other relationships outside of this transaction. So, it doesn't seem like there's a conflict. Um, there might be situations between Tom and the applicant. Um but whether or not this ANR I mean one we you know we basically

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have to approve it but um regardless of that fact if the ANR goes through there's no financial benefit or detraction to Tom personally. So I don't think there's a conflict because it's it's focused on this transaction and the decision-m in that regard.

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>> All right. >> Just uh putting an apple. Well, are you asking me not to? >> No, I I don't have the authority to force you to recuse yourself on on an issue. That would be on you to to do it if you thought that you had a conflict.

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>> Uhhuh. Well, I would be curious if you could spell out the nature of your conflict because I don't want to misunderstand. Well, so as I understand it, the you were awarded a sum of money based on a lawsuit between you and uh one of the parties in the form, the

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Shberry Athletic Club, and that they have uh peeled in court the uh >> that's false. >> That's false. >> The court is the false part. >> Oh, okay. >> It's a commission. >> It's a commission. It's not in court.

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>> Oh, okay. Well, they've appealed to a commit to a commission a ruling from a commission, >> right? But apparently you may not know know all the facts. >> So go on, please. I'd like to know what >> I mean. So perhaps I uh I misspoke about the nature of the appeal. The appeal

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would be with a commission. So the the appeal could affect a sum of money awarded to you by the commission >> by court or whatever, you know. So, so that's uh >> and how does this ANR relate to that?

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>> Well, one of the parties in the uh lawsuit or whatever you want to call it is on one of these forms, >> right? But how does it relate as a financial conflict of interest? I'm not understanding it. It could be conversely interpreted as

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you might be trying to get me to recuse myself by force, which could be a retaliation act against my having participated in the commission's hearing. >> Well, I uh >> which I have a legal right to be able to

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do and not be retaliated against for do we? So >> it might be that you're suggesting that because I participate participated in a commission activity, I should be retaliated against and not be allowed to

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do some of my civic duties as a planning board member. Nick, I really don't understand where the financial conflict is and I would like you to explain it >> or how is it not retaliation what you're suggesting. You >> know, Tom, if you don't think there's a financial conflict of interest for you to participate in this matter, then by

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all means continue. No, we're going to move on. >> I would like my question answered. >> I'm not going to answer your question, Tom. >> My question to you was form A applies to which ANR? Because it appears as though each form A would have >> I'll answer that.

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>> Um the uh >> Thank you. the it's more you know one form is u rep there are two sets of owners that are shown on this plan on the land on this plan and one owner is the suitsbury

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athletic club with lot A and the other owner is the plazas with lot one and uh which is a new building lot they're creating >> how is it that form AS are on one ANR.

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>> Well, there's two form AS because there's two owners, >> but I don't understand a an AN anr to be able to be submitted by two owners for two pieces of land. I thought it would be one form A, one ANR,

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but aren't there two actions being taken here? Would you like me? >> I'm I'm sort of wondering the same thing. Um so when we left off last time it was

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um the setbacks were a little bit too close or not sufficient enough and so the plazas were going to change things but if they are not the owners of a a parcel

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I don't think they can do that. It seems like if the AC is going to change agree to do setbacks, that's one form A for one change of an ANR and the plazas would be doing changes on

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the parcels that they own. So I I mean I guess I'm sort of reasking Tom's question. Is the parcel near the AC owned by the AC and then they're the applicant and they're speaking to their ANR and then the other parcels are owned

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by the plazas and they're making those. So, it' be one for each. >> Well, um I'm just confused as as all. >> Yeah. Is there anybody on the line? What's that?

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>> Is there anybody on the line like you plaus the um let's see the uh Mike Mike Schaefer is on the board. >> Yes. Good. Good evening board members. Uh thanks. Let me just explain. So basically when we first submitted an ANR

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uh we submitted uh two two applications because there were two owners for the parcels and rather than doing multiple plans there's no concern I mean this is pretty common where you can have multiple uh divisions of land

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using different or using multiple form A's and that's all we did basically the first application that we had we had the same I don't know if you want me to let me show me Do you want me to can I share my screen? >> Um, sure.

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>> Mattail, are you able to grant him the ability to share the screen? >> Yep, I just did. >> Excuse me, Nathan. Who is speaking? >> Bear with me one second. Yep, I'm all set. I just got to wait for this stuff to vanish. Oh, there we go.

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Okay. So, um, basically we revised this plan and originally we had a total of three new lots. Well, excuse me, two new lots plus a lot A and a lot B. The lot B now is no longer relevant. Uh, the that

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was had to do with the Kilibrus and the plazas and the Kilibrus discussed it and it turned out that the shed that they had is really up here. the one that was originally there was just a basically it's collapsed. It's not even being

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used. So, uh that lot B went away. Uh in that particular case, we also had two applications because under both scenarios, the two the lots that we had originally had over here were all part of the plazas and the lot A was land

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that was part of the Shootsberry Club. And we had submitted basically uh two applications. Both of the applications were uh by uh uh were by plaza by the plazas because the plazas were the ones

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requesting it and but the land owner at this particular case was the Shootesbury Club and Mark uh ended up signing that one. After talking with Nathan, uh, your particular, um, uh, planning regulations, I guess,

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required that Mark be the one to be the applicant, even though he's not really the one seeking, so to speak, the division of land, if you recall, this land all used to belong to the plazas at one point, and the plazas donated it to

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the club, uh, so that the club could be, you know, have the land, if you will. Um but in anyway so regardless you have two applications in front of you at this point uh you still have the plazas that we had given to you previously and then

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uh we gave you a revised one that was the same one that we had prior but just listed the Shootberry Club as the applicant versus the plazas. Um you know it's really half done as another. It's basically

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doing the same thing. So, all we're doing today is just trying to finalize a transaction for the lot A over here with the one application that is now has the Shootsbury Athletic Club as the applicant still signed by Mark as was

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the previous one and now the Plaza's application which is only breaking off lot A, excuse me, lot one, pardon me. So, that's really it. there's there's no there's no concerns about multiple lots being divisioned or multiple applicants.

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Um it's all one and the same quite frankly. You still have the old lot or you still have the old form A uh as well, but you don't need you're not being you're not using that one anymore at this point. And relative to

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uh I think is your name Tom? I think so. Right. >> Sorry if I got name right. We have no problem you voting. We are along and get it done. >> Are you the applicant? >> I am the engineer >> representing the applicant.

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>> Yes, sir. That's correct. >> And you had no problem with it >> of you voting. >> I said and you had no problem with it. >> Is that what you said >> with with with what in particular asking me? >> I thought you just said that you had no problem with what you thought I had a

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problem with. I was just curious. No of you voting. I guess there was some discussion about you not voting. So, you know, everybody can vote as far as we're concerned. >> That was a concern of the chair. That's not a concern of mine, sir. >> Oh,

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well, whatever. >> Okay. So, if I can jump in since I was just confused. It seems like Oh, sorry. One sec. Sorry. One sec. Um, Matt. >> Yeah. So, you had a conversation with Donna um on

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this. She had she had a call with you at one point. I wasn't able to make a call. I was just, you know, back to the the question of, you know, the two forms and the in the one plan. Um I was under the impression that Donna kind of said that that wasn't a problem. I don't have that

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already. I think it would you summarize your conversation in email and I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. But was that u do you recall that? >> Yeah, that's correct. That you know the the issue was not that there were not about whether there were two forms. It

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was about who signed form A and having the lot line changes represented on one plan was perfectly acceptable. She advised having it noted in the in the note section on the plan, but her real concern was about who was signing and submitting the form. A

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>> who signing and uh who the applicant was. >> That's great. >> So, uh Michael is u what was your question? >> Yeah. Um well, I I didn't have a question. It seemed like it was clear,

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but and I don't want to hold this up because it seems like it's, you know, technically straightforward or substantively straightforward. Um, I think just if we're going to vote, are we vote is there just there's from what Matteo just said, there's one form A

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that's addressing two transactions, but what um Michael the engineer said was that there were two form A's with two transactions. So, I just want to know what we're voting on, I guess, at this point. No, there there there are two separate formas.

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>> Okay. >> One from the plaza >> and there's one from the athletic club. There's two separate >> for the changes that are being represented by those formes are on one plan which is acceptable >> as long.

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Got it. So we would well I'll leave it to you Nathan if we have one vote or two but that makes sense to me. I'm I'm clear now. Thanks. >> It'll be it'll be one vote. But just so everyone can see this is one form. >> Can we approach the screen with the map projected or the diagram just to ask

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about where some lines are? >> Yep. This is the other format. It uh got the name of the applicant says the uh Marksky president address

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athletic club 28210. And then this is plan. So go ahead >> Tom. >> Um actually a separate question was does this property need to be surveyed and

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was it surveyed? That would be I don't know what this is referred as. >> You don't know what that's referred to as. Good question is does this property need to be surveyed survey the surveyor presented us with a plan that's

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>> certified with a surve >> well he presented a plan from the plazas and I didn't know if the plazas included what wasn't theirs in their survey so I just wanted to know what's their survey >> that entire corner was surveyed >> all the way down to the corner of the streets meeting

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>> that's correct >> thank you I couldn't see >> we would have we would have we have to do that >> thank you >> as a requirement Um so my question is about for the form a pertaining to this owner

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are they drawing this line are they are they adding this line such that they're separating lot a from their property >> that's what this plan does >> so is the original this

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>> and then they added this line >> that's Is that correct? >> Okay. And then this was the original line and they added make lot one. Is that correct? Those two boundaries

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and those are the three lines that have been added. Is that correct? >> Thank you. Okay. >> Any uh anyone else have any questions? So if uh we vote to endorse this, then I can sign the plans

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for a majority of the board and uh arrange for them to be uh handed off to the >> we received all the payment. >> Yes. >> Do you know how much the payment was? >> There's a different allowance of the

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payment, but it's a square >> 140. or with the clerk. >> I think on this one, you know, this creates one additional lot, so it'll be 70. You could >> I thought it said the number of lots on

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the plan 70 per lot. Do we did we get a payment and how much did we get? Um, we did get a payment and uh we are checking the information you sent us.

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>> There was a fee payment of $140, >> right? >> Cool. the two lots, $70 per lot. >> And that was um calculated based on the original um submission which created two additional

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building lots which is our um sorry I'm testing. I see Mary you have your hand up. Are you trying to this point on this Ann here? >> Hi. Is that Nathan talking?

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>> Yeah. You just have your hand up still. If you would uh lower your hand, please. >> I have a question. As a general audience, resident person. What are the plans for? Are are you all going to give permission for two different land owners

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to build? Is that your discussion? So this this is an ANR approval not required and it's the it's just for the planning board to determine whether or not the plan presented to us shows a subdivision. >> That's

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>> I don't understand you Nathan. I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry Mary but we need to move on in our agenda. I can't we're not going to have time to uh to explain the details of this um for members of the public who don't understand but if you want to you can

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reach out to me and I'll uh I'll I'll send you a note Mary Lou explain that's a little mumbled but thank you >> Nathan you want a motion >> yeah sure that >> okay and we're doing one vote right

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>> yes so So I would and we're not we're not approving we're endorsing this I think is what the action we're taking. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. So I would move that the planning

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board endorse the plan to create two lots um that are lot one and lot A shown on the plan provided to the planning board. Um uh for the two applicants

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um Mark Ozki for Shootsbury Athletic Club and the Plazas. Um and is that sufficient? Does that work? I I can give the parcel numbers if we need to, but parcel 111

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and parcel 55. Is that those the two? >> I think that should probably do it, right? Yeah, >> second. >> Yeah, that's do it. >> Tom time to second it. Okay. So, we have

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a motion and a second to uh endorse this plan before us. That was uh any further discussion. Okay, I'll call the role. Restster. >> I >> Bro,

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>> I seen >> I motion carries unanimously. All right. Um Mr. Shaper, I will uh endorse these plans on behalf of the

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board and uh we can figure out a uh a way to convey the signed uh plans to you and uh or your client. >> Fantastic. Thank you very much everyone. We really appreciate it. Have a wonderful evening. We'll definitely stop

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by the office at some point, see Matteo, and pick up the plan when it's ready. >> Beautiful. All right. Thank you very much planning board for your diligence. >> Sure thing. >> You can do it. Okay.

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Now I'm actually a considerate side planning board represent representative on the community preservation committee on a consideration is Tom Sea. I'd like to just go right to a motion. Anything in the talk can be in discussion.

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>> I'll move to nominate Tom Seafford for CPC representative for the planning board. >> Do we have a second? >> I second. >> Okay. Any discussion? If uh the vote carries, I'll contact the

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select board. >> Yeah, this is not a discussion. Just as a point. Last time we had Cliff, Cliff Reed is now representing the recreational slot that um so >> that's uh thank you for that

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and I know it's a between meetings but it seems like a distant past at this point. Um right. Yeah. So that's uh all right. Um any anything else? Any other discussion? Uh, follow the roll. Uh, Brlin,

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>> hi. >> Hy. >> I >> and I'm an M motion carries unanimously. The U. >> Hey, Nathan, can I just say one thing? >> Yeah.

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So just for next month, I think we might want to have on the agenda for LWAC. Um if it gets created, maybe it'll be the next month, but the select board is discussing the the new configuration of

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the Lake Boy Advisory Commission and the planning board will most likely continue to have a representative. So whether it's next month, the month after that, we might be picking another representative. So just an FYI. Yeah, I I saw that it was uh

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>> Yeah, I thought it would behoove us to uh be able to vote now on it because uh >> Yeah, we should wait. We should definitely wait. >> You think so? >> Well, the select board hasn't come out with a new charge. >> Well, they haven't come out with a charge. the

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>> Michael the concom recommends >> I you know haven't I mean been to that I know you and I were both at the last select board meeting but until they finalize the charge it seems premature um the presumption will be that the planning board is there because no one

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said otherwise um so I guess it's up to Nathan you can figure out if we want to do it next time put it on the agenda um or wait till the select board finalizes the charge but it just it's on the horizon whatever um next month and the month after.

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>> Well, I mean, I would entertain a motion to uh to move forward with the uh recommendation to the select board. And if that carries, it carries. If it doesn't, it doesn't make it at this point. I'm not hearing it. No one's made the motion.

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>> Okay, that's cool. I just wanted to point it out. I'm I'll make the motion to have Tom be the >> You know, I'm not going to twist your arm to make it. I don't think maybe if you don't want to make it. >> No, I'm No, I'm happy to do it. I mean, I don't think unless anyone else wants to do it. I think I' I'd move to have

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Tom Seafford be the Lake Boy Advisory Committee Planning Board representative. >> All right. Do I hear a second? >> All right. Uh Michael moves Steve seconds to uh recommend

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Tom Seaffort to serve as a Pboard rep on the new uh lake advisory committee uh pending the release of the judge more or less. Um any discussion? I you know I'll send an email to the uh

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select board and if they you know want us to vote again and we'll vote again. If not then it'll be a done deal. Um, okay. Um, I'll call the roll. Decara. >> Hi.

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>> Hi. >> Hi. >> Casey. >> Hi. >> Presler. >> Hi. >> Seafford. >> Hi. >> Weston. >> Hi. >> And I'm an eye. >> Okay. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. Motion carries unanimously. All right. Now, uh, thank thank you, uh, Carl and Dean for being so patient. Um, I'm happy to say that we have two, uh,

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two two candidates for associate member. Now, um is I think um I think we'll start with Carl because he got his statement of interest and uh we received that statement of interest

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first. So, has anyone on the board not had a chance to to look at what he wrote to us? >> You haven't. Or I have. I looked at Is anyone who has not? Um, in that case, uh,

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I'm going to just go ahead and hand the floor to Carl and go ahead and introduce yourself and, you know, uh, I'll expand on, uh, you wrote already and just, uh, go from there. >> Okay. So, my name is Carl Lner. Um,

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transplant here to shoot uh, probably four years now. Um, I really like the town. Love the town actually. Um, involved,

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excuse me. Um, I'm involved in um the town with working, caring for the secretary and plowing and volunteering um volunteering for helping out with boarding and stuff. So, um, you know, I

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want to be a part of the town more than just a resident. I want to contribute to, uh, once the generosity that's been given to me, uh, with the with the town and and and just the kindness and, um, caring that it's in the community. So,

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um, you know, I'm looking to, you know, get involved and, um, a poll when Nathan had mentioned you guys were looking for, uh, some members. Uh so a brief background on me. I have an associates degree in plant soil science

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from UMass Stockbridge. Um worked the over 20 years in construction. Um landscape construction, building gas stations, um worked my way into property management, maintenance.

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Currently I'm a property manager for senior housing. So, I've got a wide swath of uh knowledge and interest and skills. Um covered a lot with you know planning,

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looking at blueprints, making sure you have the right dimensions, setbacks, boundaries. Um so, you know, I just want to be a part um to just give back. So, and I thought this would be place to start.

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Thank you for the uh your time and your consideration. It >> will appreciate your interest and this serving on the board and the public service in general. Um

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I think we'll do the kind of the same thing uh with Dean then we'll uh if anyone has any questions they they want to uh ask they can do that and then we'll uh kind of recap with the next steps in the process. >> Okay.

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>> Can I do one thing just for for Carl and Dean's benefit? There's two associate positions open. So, it's not like you're vying against each other. Um, in that in that sense, >> that's another thing. I'm supposed to

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make this sound like a coveted position, but I hope they not doing a good job. >> Well, we could always, you know, say no to either of them, but I I just wanted to make clear like it's not like they're trying to fit into one spot. >> A broomstick and say we're gonna have try, >> right?

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>> No. All right. Um yeah it's uh two open uh associate member seats. Yeah. Okay. Um Dean >> is everyone is there anyone who hasn't heard uh from Dean and and seen his uh letter? >> Okay. Please.

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>> Good evening. Uh so uh I joined the community in 2019 and uh I'm employed at Amoris College. I work in student affairs there. My uh interest in being considered for associate member is for the continuity

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of the group so that folks can experience life and vacations and have conflicts and not worry about the business of the town. Uh so continuity planning is an important part of what I do um at Ammerst and I'd like to bring that here. As far as training and

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experience are concerned, um, more specifically, I was an undergraduate in natural sciences at Tus University where I earned a degree in geological sciences and environmental studies and then went on to study policy. I earned a master's

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degree at Vermont Law School. And that uh course of study included land use planning. And so uh comprehensive planning and uh the the business of the planning board is uh stuff that I sort of nerd out to and appreciate very much.

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So, uh, the opportunity for me to join, uh, the the board here is to, uh, provide a dependable backs stop for those of you who are voting members to know that if, uh, you're not able to participate in a meeting that I will be

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there and we'll have a command of uh, the facts of the cases that are on the docket. >> Excellent. Thank you. Can I say a word? So Dean and Carl, thank you so much that things can happen in the town if we don't have a quorum.

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So um associate members are incredibly important. Um we only had three and someone brought something to the planning board. Um uh it's uncertain what would happen to that. So um having a quorum allows us to at least have a voice in terms of what happens when

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things are brought to the board. So, thank you for um stepping up and wanting to uh help us out. As you know, we're all volunteers here. And so um and the town actually works on volunteers. There must be over a hundred volunteers in this town. Otherwise, it wouldn't

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survive uh in any way. It wouldn't survive financially certainly and a lot would not get done. So, thank you for your willingness to uh step up. I do have a question. Where did you you said you're both transplants. Where are you coming from? Before we get into

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questions, I was going to give uh >> these folks a chance to ask us questions um for just a few minutes and then uh so uh do you guys have any questions about uh what we're doing, what the role is like, anything like

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that? Feel like >> No, I honestly don't at this point have any questions. >> Okay, uh not right now. Thank you. >> Oh, all right. Well, go ahead. >> Um, where where are you transplants

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from? Where where are you coming from? You said you came here um you've been here for like seven years or so and four years. >> Uh I I came here from Methuan, Massachusetts in the Marramac Valley where I was um in residence for 13 years

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and prior to that uh I spent 11 years in Somerville. uh grew up in Rhode Island, so New Englander through and through, >> right? >> Um I was in Belchuretown, uh raising my kids there with school and

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then prior to that I was in New Hampshire where I where I grew up. But when I grew up to most recently New Hampshire, I've moved around quite a bit. >> And where in New Hampshire? Uh Keen area.

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>> Yeah. Great. >> Well, thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else want to ask some questions? I just had an observation, not a question, but it it seems like, you know, if if Carl and Dean joined, we'd

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have two different new sets of skills um >> in terms of um you know, sort of the environmental science policy stuff on Dean's end and sort of the con the deep construction background sort of the practical stuff. So, I think both of

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those are good eyes on our process. I have a question. >> Well, I appreciate you both being here. Thank you. And I second what Michael says. It seems like you both have really a lot to offer for the planning board.

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Um, I'm wondering, so one thing that comes up often is, and it's something you mentioned, Carl, in your email, like the balance between preserving the the unique nature of our town and trying to not fall off a

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financial cliff, which is happening. Um, and so I'm curious if either of you have have any thoughts on that. We've had a lot of discussions here about what kind of development could be possible. Um and of course like

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we, you know, we've had interest from um from different applicants. No, not applicants. We've just had interest in the past from developers. So, just curious if you have thoughts on that. Any sort of ideas about income generating possibilities for the town

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and um I don't know, do you have a magic answer for how to balance that with keeping our unique character? Any consideration about that? Thanks. >> Um yeah, so I do have some thoughts. Um

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definitely keeping the uniqueness of the town. Um I do think that 90% of the town's revenue should not be coming from the property owner. So you need to get some my opinion we need to get some businesses in town. Um I'm not

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talking Dollar General, any gas stations, Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts. I'm talking more mom and pop brick and mortar uh shops to keep uniqueness of the town. Um you know I'd be interested in seeing like you know like a little

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hardware store so we don't have to go to the big box maybe a little bakery. Um Florence has an awesome pie bar. Uh it would be nice to have a pie bar here in town. So um we have a lake. Um, my understanding is

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many many years ago there used to be a bait shop. I mean, I don't know. Uh, maybe a bait shop. A lot of fishing. There's ice fishing. So, those are the kind of some ideas um that I have floating around in my mind. Um, you

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know, even a little bed and breakfast or a little inn uh to attract tourism. Um, we have the lake, we have the quabin. um not too far away, we do have, you know, Yankee Candle, we have the

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Treehouse Brewery, we have Northfield Recreation. So, we have a lot to offer in this little town um that I think we can, you know, expand on less than have more balance our economy

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here. I would say from my point of view the balance particularly for the planning bo board's purview to me is really making sure that uh property owners are able to uh exercise their right uh fairly and

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entirely. Um, I hope that balance also can mean that as um private land owners and the the city uh rather the town and the state think about

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partnerships and think about the the watershed that we um provide and other uh natural um natural features that that we not only

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uh are fortunate to have but have been active in protecting. Um that protection and the benefits that that protection yields is not just to the residents of Shesbury within our borders. Those protections and benefits extend

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regionally. And so the current conversation that I have a lot yet to learn about that's going on with the Quabin watershed for example is an example of maybe not how we're going to uh generate taxable uh revenue dollars

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for the town but ways in which the town is uh respected and remunerated appropriately for the benefits that it affords to the commonwealth not just uh to the residents in town. Uh so there's

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a whole lot of technological and policy development in uh areas relating to uh consumption of energy, the production of energy, the storage of energy, the transference of energy from place to place. And I think that Shootsbury in in

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partnership with its municipal neighbors and with the Commonwealth and possibly uh regionally in New England have uh important important discussions to have about what the next 50 years looks like uh and the way that we we use energy and

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the way that we get it uh distributed fairly in in a in a Costco competitive way. Thank you both. Ashley, if I have the question, Tom, please. I um Carl and Dean, thank you so much. Um

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let's say you are associate members. I imagine it's going to be difficult to decide how we would choose which of you to fill in if there was only a need for one. Um and I don't I don't savor that moment. Hopefully, if there's a need, it will always be for two and the two of you can jump in. Um, but I'm just

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thinking that's going to be an interesting discussion down the line, too. Uh, when there's a a need for an associate to jump in. Okay, which of the two does it? But we'll figure that out when we have to. Um, thank you so much for doing it. Uh, right. It could be a random mechanism.

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>> Flipping a coin or something. >> Um, and it's exciting. I know. >> True. I think three of us on the current call were associate members. And I'm sorry if I'm missing somebody who was as well. Uh so that's also I think a good

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attestation to this group. We like working together. We work well together. We work hard together and uh we stay um and we grow into the positions more deeply. Uh just a quick question. Has either of you had a reason ever to look

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at the shoots zoning bylaws for something going on? A question you had or anything? And did anything ever pop out at you just or another shoot regulation or bylaw? >> Yeah. >> Uhhuh.

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>> Um Dean, that was for Dean as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, please. Dean, have you ever had a reason to look at the Shakespeare zoning bylaw? >> Yeah. When the um when the AMP proposal came about, I was very interested in understanding uh where they'd be

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operating, what the frontages were. Uh I in that in that uh investigation learned that property that uh I own was actually rather next to that project, which I didn't realize at first. Um, you know, I

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I think uh in looking at the bylaw and looking at our plot maps, I'm also I'm also conscious about how we can uh democratize information and get information to as many interested parties as possible as easily as

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possible. And so I know that there's been town discussions recently about the digitization of certain paper files and whatnot. I think that what exists online um from the Commonwealth and from Sheetsbury is is impressive uh already,

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but I think that there's more that we can do to empower residents to uh understand uh not only what proposals are, but where those proposals exist and using um GIS data in particular to help residents

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understand in a very um simple but um honest way what natural resource resources, what um what you know, highway department resources, what other municipal interests might be overlaying with um proposals that come about. Even

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on tonight's call, for example, uh the ability to share a screen and to look at the plot map is great, but I can appreciate Tom approaching the screen uh and pointing at the screen uh with his hand or a pointer uh in the way that I

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could benefited from were I in the room. So, some of these are tech fixes, some of it is practice, but I think that um the business of the planning board can seem very opaque and mysterious to members of the public. And to me, that would be a thing uh that we might uh

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think about um addressing. >> Sometimes it feels opaque and mysterious to me as well. Dean, the the topic that you were just bringing up about the um the state compensating um these small towns for

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protecting the Quabin was a a huge the topic of a rather large gathering that Michael and I were at the Quabin recently. I'm not sure if you were aware of that. >> I was aware that it took place, but I wasn't able to participate. >> Yeah. So, it's a very hot topic and

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hopefully um the uh the acreage is certainly compensated differently depending if you're on in where or Salem versus other places in the town, other places in the state where the compensation is like thousands of dollars per acre and here it's like a few hundred dollars. So, there's a large

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discrepancy that's going been going on for a long time. So, you certainly hit on something that's very important um uh for everyone in this um all the struggling communities in this area. >> Okay, I'm going to turn it back to uh

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Dean and Carl and see if any questions have now popped up >> or have we scared you away? >> No. So, uh, a while ago as a board, we decided that we'd have a lag period on this. So,

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rather than voting now to whether or not we'll go this board, we'll uh we'll talk about this again next time meet which will be in August. That time um we would uh I would

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entertain motions to u recommend uh to the select board and to uh go through the process. The way an associate member is appointed is uh joint session with the planning board and select board. So we would make

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that vote and I would uh reach out to the administrative assistant and figure out when we can get on the slideboard agenda and see if that works with everyone else's schedule and do the scheduling thing. get us there and uh

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you know so it's it's a little bit of a lot to ask of applicants to you know come to our next meeting they come to a select board meeting but that's u that's currently what we're looking at if uh if you had to be at one I would say go to the select board in case they uh have

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questions they want to ask um Michael do you have something you want to add? Yeah, I I had a question for you. I mean, given the conversation tonight and the fact that there's potentially two more meetings, I'm I mean, I would be fine voting to recommend today. So, I'm just sort of like curious what the

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motivation was >> motion a motion to suspend the rules. >> I I Well, it's more a question for you. How strongly do you feel? >> We don't have to do a formal motion. If there's no one opposed um to uh doing things on this meeting, then I would be

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happy to entertain motions on um moving forward with either of these applicants. Uh so if uh someone I'm not hearing any opposition to that. So if someone would like a to make a a motion to uh go to select board with one or both of these

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candidates here, that would be in good order. >> Okay. Well, being that I pried the door open, um I I'll make a motion for each Carl. What's your last name? >> Uh Lounder. >> Lounder. Right. >> Okay. So, I would I would move that the

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planning board recommend Carl Lounder to um be an associate member of the planning board. >> A second. >> A second. >> Michael moves and Jeff seconds. Um, we'll recommend Carl Aller to be

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appointed as associate member for the planning board. Any further discussion? Okay, I'll call the RO. Hi >> Rustler. >> Hi >> Hy. >> Hi >> Kefir.

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>> Hi >> Tyra. >> I >> West >> Hi. >> And I'll vote I carries unanimously. >> Thank you. >> So I'll move tonight. >> Last they got the last two associate

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member position available. Say what? >> I said last two associate member positions available. >> That's true. That's true. So I will move uh that the pling board recommend Dean

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Dean Gedron as an associate member for the pling board. >> Associate member. >> What did he say? >> Should I say it again? Okay. >> Yeah, it's we'll call it mistake. All

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right. The motion is uh to the planning board to recommend Dean Kendron, associate member of the planning board and uh correct move. Are you seconded? >> Yeah, Mikely moved. Jeff seconded and uh any discussion?

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>> Um two people have said Gendin. Is that the right pronunciation of your last name? Dean Gend. >> Oh, thank you. Sorry about that. >> No worries. >> I should know better >> going forward.

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>> It's the EF. >> It's a confusing G in English, right? >> Okay. Any discussion? No. All right. Call the roller. >> Hi. Take care. >> Hi.

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>> Hy. I >> I >> West. >> Hi. >> And carries unanimously. Congratulations to both of you. We'll uh we'll be in touch on a date with the

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select board. It'll probably be a similar uh thing. The select board tends to meet. Are they still meeting uh town hall? Okay. >> So, we Yeah, we'll be here or online. Either way is good. Uh thank you both uh

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very much for one your interest, two for coming tonight, and three for your patience as we uh got things rolling and uh dealt with another business matter um ahead of yours. things like ANRS we like to uh

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give uh do attention to is that uh you know one of the things alluded to right now we don't have form things can be constructively approved we can talk about that more later but that's uh all the same my gratitude uh thank you

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both for coming and uh thank you everyone on the planning board for welcoming them and uh asking some questions and that's it you're welcome to stay for the rest of the meeting. We're going to talk about some uh we got a few things on, but one of them

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I know Carl's going to like want to talk about ways uh that we might change our zoning that could be conducive to >> right potential uh addition of revenue down or more business. That might be like not the way that it

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should be characterized, but it's What do you say, Michael? uh how would you describe please? I um actually someone pointed out that we haven't updated our bylaws from 2000 2008. So it's time. So I think it's you

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know looking at our bylaws given the realities of today and the opportunities and the and the tensions um to figure out how to make them better. Um which includes revenue, includes greater protection, includes creative ideas. Uh but really I think just giving it a

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fresh look after uh 18 years. That's not >> more to come after we do the minutes. >> All right. Yeah, we have minutes next. But that's not to say we haven't uh had any amendments, but those were always uh somewhat targeted.

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Now, uh Okay, moving on in the agenda. All right, we have review and approve minutes from 61 2026. >> So moved. >> Okay, and we have a second. Okay, Michael moves Jeff seconds to approve

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the minutes from um June 1st, 2026. Any discussion? No. All right, I'll call the rest of Hasty. Take care. Hi. Hi, Proud.

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I have to abstain. I haven't had a chance to look at them. >> Okay. Um Se. Okay. >> Coming back to Hasty. Did we lose Keith Hasty? >> And Weston I

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>> Weston I. Okay. Uh I'll abstain. So we'll uh we'll say that the motion carries with four votes. And Hasty is still on the call, but he's muted. I'm not sure if he's having some kind of difficulty, but um will Mark is

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an abstension for the diet for because we can't hear his vote. All right. Uh minutes have been approved. We're going to move on. Next agenda item is we're going to review approach to update

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zoning districts, economic development. Okay. Micah >> said a bunch of stuff. So I I will happily hand the floor to you. Give myself a break. >> Cool. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. So

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last meeting when we talked, I sort of proposed the idea of, you know, trying to figure out, you know, how to look at the zoning bylaws to create some balance and build off of some ideas that came out of that the six months of data

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center discussions, you know, and one of the particular things that struck me is when I talked to Kate Keith at one point, he said, you know, he described what a traditional New England town meant to him, which is, you more density downtown area and then sparer

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development. And that sort of got me thinking and so I looked at the zoning bylaws um before the last meeting and basically suggest that maybe the board want to look wants to look at things. So knowing that that was a tall order, I

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thought what I would do is try to figure out, you know, if we if we took this coming year between now and annual town meeting to do what we usually do around bylaws to sort of say, how do we revisit this? How do we break down discussions and sort of see if we want to change

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things? Um, and so I went through the zoning bylaws and looked at different sections, which was the first document that I sent, which was the items for possible reflection regarding zoning changes. And so, you

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know, I looked at the land, we've got a section that defines the land use districts, the four districts. We've got a section 2.2, which is the purposes of the land districts, um, which describes them a little bit more. There's actually an overlay district which I didn't even know we had which is the flood paint

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plane overlay district. Um then we have the use table which we've tal talked a bunch about um and have amended over the course of time. There's also a mixed use section and then there's the dimensional tables. Um and I think that's

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and then there's a few other things like exceptions to the dimensional tables which is height. um for I know Steve remembers those long conversations about height at Lake Ryola. Um and then there's definitions. So those are the ones when I looked at the entire set of

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bylaws, things that seemed like we could be reviewing and maybe tweaking. Um there might be others. Um but what I did is I went from that and then I then I looked at each of those sections. So for example, um I'm just going to highlight

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these. I I think rather than dive into the substance tonight, having thought about this, my suggestion would be let's figure out how we want to approach it. Um, and maybe take it in bites. And so I'll go through

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this as examples and I'll circle back. So I wrote this other document, the initial ideas for changing zoning documents. It was mostly I mean they're my they're ideas that I genuinely think are reasonable to discuss but it's more example. Yeah.

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>> Michael, do you want me to share one of your documents so that uh >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You can do the do the the thoughts on possible. Thank you, Nathan. That's brilliant. >> I'm I'm staring at it. I just >> Yeah. No, it's >> it makes it makes sense for you guys to

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do that, too. Well, Michael, if I understand what you're looking for tonight is for us to establish a process of how we go about exploring these changes. >> Yeah. I mean, I I think the first question is, you know, do we want to

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start exploring um and generally speaking and then Yeah, exactly. Come up with a process because it's way too much to do without understanding how we're going forward. But yes, Steve, I think you're correct.

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Um so now that it's up there you can see so looking at purpose you know the purpose is um the the purpose for the different areas and so the purpose for the just for town center it actually

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says in there to maintain an existing settlement pattern. So an example would be looking at the purposes of each of the districts and figure out what's the purpose. So one could say that you know we want to allow centrallylo residential

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civic commercial uses and mixed use but not necessarily maintaining the same settlement pattern because the settlement pattern is more sparse than we might want if we wanted to you know have you know say some small businesses

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like Carl was mentioning. Um on on the other side um what I found really interesting is that forest conservation is named forest conservation but um in terms of what its purpose is which is far down.

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Yeah I I won't go there yet. I'll just go I'll just stay on town center for a second so it'll make it easier. So I looked at the purpose of town center. I then looked at the boundaries of town center to figure out okay where is town center? we talk about all the time, but I didn't know where it

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started and stopped. Um, and so when I looked at it, it seemed like we could actually move the boundaries a little bit. So, do we want to be more inclusive and make it a bigger town center or smaller? Um, more, you know, so I think that's something we can look at what the

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boundaries of each district are. Um, not all the districts have definitions. Um, so we should define the definitions. you have two of them that are defined and two that are not defined. So that seems like for consistency sake and clarity sake you would define what that's besides the purpose what it's defined

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as. Um there's a whole bunch of stuff we can talk about in use tables, you know, so what uses um are allowed in a particular district, what's right, what's special permit, what's by site plan review. Um definitely tweaking. Um,

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and you can see in here, you know, just in town center there's, you know, we have the categories of residential uses, community uses, business uses, energy and utility uses, and industrial uses. So, there's a lot to rejigger there and say, oh, okay, if we're thinking about

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town, the town center district, what we what would we want to encourage? What would we want to disincentivize? Um, so that's the conversation. And then same thing with dimensions. So, just as an example, um I looked at

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what our bylaws are. I also looked at the GIS in terms of what the parcel sizes actually are. Um, you know, because we have a lot of non-conforming parcels from before we did the bylaws. And so, we can look at what the minimum

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lot size is for Lake Viola Town Center. Um, we don't have to change things necessarily, but we should at least look at them. Same thing with setbacks. Um, and you know, height is probably only an issue in Lake Oyola, but these are all the dimensions. So, the the lot area,

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the setbacks, front, side, rear, maximum floor, uh, for non-residential, and the maximum height. Um, and so what I did in this document, if you know, I'm assuming some of you might have read it and some of them you might have skimmed it, but um, some might have read it at all. But

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what I did is I basically took all four districts and looked at those components. Now there might be other things that um cut across the entire town. Um like I mean one thing that um Tom pointed out to me at one point was

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I'm going to forget the uh forget the word but you know reconstruction. Is that it Tom? >> That's the word. >> Yeah. So reconstruction would be for across districts no matter where in town. So that's you know like having a

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definition of what that is because apparently it's been confusing to people over the course of time. And then the other last thing I would just throw out which is possible it's at the very end of the the document that Nathan's got on this on the screen but

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in thinking about okay where would we want to sort of encourage development. You know, we've talked about how where can we get housing, etc. What struck me, and again, this is like a big conversation to have, but do we

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want to create a different district? And the one that jumps out to me is actually in Jeff's neck of the woods, which you know is like the Atkins Reservoir. So, sort of up January Hills a little bit over um it's close to Amorest. It's around the reservoir. Um it's actually

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you know it's more dense than some other places already but it's also got a natural resource that we want to protect. Um but it's raising it more as an example that just because we have four now doesn't mean we have have to have four going forward. And lastly, I

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would just say like something that was interesting to me. I think in my thinking, it seems like we would probably keep it, but rural residential. Um, when I think about districts, I tend to think about them more geographically. You know, like like Ryola is a geographic location. Town center is a

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geographic location. Rural residential is basically a zone um defined the from the distance of the center of the road across town. Um, so that's the definition. So it's everywhere in town for houses that are

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not in town center, not like Wiiola that are a certain setback from the middle of the road. So I think it's, you know, it's probably fine, but it's worth saying does does this work? Um, and I think the only one who was here when the

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bylaws were redone um was Steve. So, you know, you might have better sense of the history and all, but that so that's hopefully just in using that example, it seems like there's different ways to parse it where I guess what I would say is we could

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look by district. So, you could say for Lake Wyola, let's look at the purpose, let's look at the use table, let's look at the dimensions, look at the boundaries of the definition. Or we could do it the other way and slice it where we say, let's look at the purpose

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of all the districts and make sure that the purposes are good. Let's look at the uh the dimensions for each of them and see how they relate to each other. So there's sort of I think two fundamental ways we could do it. And I'm sure either way we'll have you know we'll sort of

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bleed into the other because it's going to take time. But um that's my basic thinking if that's I can leave it there. Thank you, Michael. Now, uh I'm sure people have lots of questions, but we're getting on in time and there's other

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items on the agenda that we do need to cover and I do want to stop at 9:00 tonight. I'm uh I'm sorry at uh yeah, what do I say? So, so for purposes of this discussion, because what Michael is pretty straightforward, I I do think

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Michael what you've laid out here and I have read through it. Um, I do think tackling it district by district and when we do tackle one district, it allows us, as you know, focus more on that district. But we may come up as

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we're focusing on each district with additional thoughts that cut across this and we just keep a running tab. I'm going to I'm going to move forward even further into the future. When we do make these changes, okay, or as we make these

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changes, I'm going to strongly encourage us not to try do all full all of our changes all at once at a town meeting or or public hearing. Let's tackle it and let's really tackle putting a B new

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bylaw bylaw adjustments before the before the public in let's parse it out the way we're focusing on it because I do remember when we did major zoning reszoning in 2008 it was it

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took two years okay even after the two years and we had we we had these public education sessions where we'd ask you people to come with their property to show them how these new rules would could apply to their property. And after

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two years, I'm still thinking about 25% of people at most understood those that knew zoning by. So, it's a long way of saying let's tackle it in part in in sections and then let's try to move forward with into town meeting with

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those sections and not do it a wholesale thing. I think it helps uh the public focus more on something that's really, you know, more focused than than trying to assimilate a lot of different information, which we will eventually. >> I do.

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>> You follow me? >> I do and I appre I appreciate the perspective. I think the only thing I would push back on maybe just to see is maybe the guiding light. What I take away from what you're saying is we can't

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ask people to to digest so much detail that there it's impossible for them. So right how we pursu whatever the timeline is and however we end up >> whatever we put forth need it has to be understandable to people so they know what they're voting on they're not

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feeling overwhelmed. Um, I'm I'm sort of scared of saying we're going to take four years to do it, but maybe there's a way of saying like how whatever we put forth, people should understand what it is and come up with a strategy where it makes sense because I mean the only thing that concerns me which I don't

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have an answer to is like they're all so connected. So like if we this is another conversation and I want to respect Nathan's point. >> Yeah. >> I would like to uh No.

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>> Well, so what I would like to do is I want everyone, you know, uh to just uh you know, you've heard what Michael said and um I don't know, you know, we're going to be we're going to keep this on the agenda. Um and we're going to talk about

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them more. So uh I think it it might be helpful if you have uh thoughts you know if you want to write them down and submit them uh to me or Michael um and we can distribute that. Uh so it's like

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obviously we don't want to run into open meeting law issues but having people be able to kind of share their thoughts and um and kind of keep track of it uh is going to be helpful. So, um, you know, in the interim, we can, you know, keep

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Michael and I on the loop and, uh, and we'll talk about it more, but I really do want to, it's 8:35 and I want to end by nine. And we got to talk about state racks. So, I I hate to cut anyone off, Steve. >> State rags will be short, just so you

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know. >> Are they Are they going to be short? >> Well, all the same. I think, you know, I've already put the cork in it, so I don't want to open the bottle again. So, uh, we're going to, uh, yeah, um, I

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encourage people, too, to just, uh, you know, look at this, think about it, and, um, bring any ideas you have because it's an interesting topic of discussion, and I have a feeling we'll be talking about it for a little while.

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All right. Um, next we have uh, yeah, state clean energy uh, regulation updates including local government representative and updates to solar and battery bylaws and it fees. And again, this is an update from Michael. So, let's uh,

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>> okay, so first one is a followup to the email I sent you all with about the local government representative. But just quickly for Carl and Dean's uh benefit, um in November 2024, the state passed a clean energy law um that was

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about solar, wind, and battery storage regulation. Um and at the basically in they were they were trying to change how it was done. Um figuring that things were going too slowly. So they divided it up and

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the last year the do department of energy resources been working on regulations um because quote unquote small projects which are wind and solar up to 25 megawws and battery storage up to 100 megawatts are still going to be

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regulated by municipalities. So those regulations went in effect on July 1. So they are currently in play. Um the mechanism for that is that the

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state basically is treating a municipality as a whole. So up until now, you know, the planning board would do would do its permitting. Concoms would do its permitting. If there was a ZBA or another board, it would do its permitting. We all had our

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separate tracks. Now we all have a we retain our regulatory powers but a municipality has one year to make a decision as a unit. And so that's the new paradigm that the states treating the municipality as a unit. So they came

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up with this new idea of a local government representative which would be the point of contact who would help facilitate both administrative and substantive um process for each municipality. um via um consolidated permit. So what I

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wrote you is that the local government representative in the regs was going to be the select board by default and if the select board didn't want to do it, they could designate someone. And so what we've talked about previously is the town didn't necessarily have the

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wherewithal to pay for someone. You know, like you can't you don't know when an application's coming and then when you have one, who's going to do it? I mean it's more than Matteo currently does now as land use clerk because there is administrative but there's substantive stuff. So I was work I've been working with Joe Cmerford's office

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for the last two months at least. And last week there was an energy affordability bill that the Senate passed. [ __ ] Um and um sorry about that. The screen just went black. Um and basically the local government

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representative can now be a 53g consultant um by the senate the senate bill. So just like we are able to charge the applicant for consulting services for say storm water or the concom can do

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for delineation we can do that for local government representatives. So that passed on the Senate side. It's going to go to the a conference committee because the house did not have it. I'm hoping the conference committ committee will probably get their work done in August

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or September. So, right now it's not it's up in the air. It would still be the select board if things stayed the same, but the momentum is good and and I actually do is actually supportive of this. So, I'm hopeful that it'll happen. Um, what's nice for Shootesbury is that

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we our local process on consolidated permits won't happen till October 1st. So, we have between now and October 1st before we would ever get an application and have to do it in the new process and therefore use a local government representative. So, um, this was mostly

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an update to say the Senate passed it, the House has to agree to it. Um, and then if we get an application, we can have the town charge an applicant. So that's Does that make sense? It was not as clear as I otherwise would have wanted it to be, but

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>> the House hasn't it hasn't come law yet. You said the Senate passed it. The House has to agree. >> Yeah. So the way the way the legis legislation works in the state is the House votes on something and the Senate votes on something. If they're identical, then it's approved and it

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goes to the governor. the House. This is not included in the in the House one, House version of the bill. It is included in the Senate version. So, what they do many many many times is they create a conference committee, which is three House members and three Senate members. They get in a room and they

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fight it out. The reason I'm somewhat optimistic is that you'll like this, Nathan. Um the House bill includes the governor's provision that there doesn't have to be a ballot initiative to allow

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it nuclear again. The Senate doesn't. So that's going to be where the fireworks is. No one's going to care about the local government representative. This is like a little thing for municipalities. And the reality is every legislator has is representing municipalities and no no

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municipality in the entire state can afford a local government representative because no one has this new capacity. So I think it's going to happen. Um so it's in Q. Um and the fact they passed the Senate, it's good. So that's really the update and I can I'll just keep you posted. um that I reached out to Aaron

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Sanders who's our rep at that Quavin meeting last week and asked him to make sure that he's supportive on the House side. So, we'll see. Um sound good? Any questions on that? And then the other stuff is actually

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relatively quick. Um the in the law that passed in November 24, DOER was tasked with creating model bylaws for both solar and battery installations. Um it's been in the works

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for almost a year at this point. Um we saw a draft I think it was in March. I had a phone call with the director of that division that was doing it probably at least six weeks ago and they said, "Oh, it's at the lawyers, but it's been

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a really hard time." So, they were hoping to have it by July 1st because that's when the law went into effect and it's not in effect yet. Um, so there's no model bylaws. It's it's as murky as can be. Um, I've been waiting to see them because

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the question would be, do does Shootsbury need to change our solar bylaws in any way to align them with the state's model or not? You know, when I've gone to public sessions, DOE has presented at they've they've said

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assuringly to all the municipalities in the room, even when the law the regulations go into effect, you will not have to change your bylaws. So, what I don't understand is why we would not have to change our bylaws and they're creating model bylaws. It's a little

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mixed message the way I see it. So, I haven't seen anything yet. When it hits when it hits the streets, I'll send it out to you all and we can look at it and then we can discuss if we have to change anything because it'll become real, but they're overdue by months at this point.

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Um, so more to come when we actually see something. Does that make sense? Michael, I have a question. >> Yeah. >> So, the model bylaws are particularly for municipalities that don't have any bylaws related to solar,

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>> right? Or is it is that not clear? >> It's it's not clear. Um, yeah, it's it's unclear. And the thing that's even weirder about it is there's two things just to to get a sense. So

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the last time DOER did model bylaws for solar was in 2014 and they basically encouraged no development in forested areas and no development on agriculture. Now needless to say that hasn't been the case right

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and so the question is do the model bylaws that do as an agency puts out are they legally binding? Clearly they're not because all the development and you know we cited way back when the DOE

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bylaws and you know they're basically recommendations by the administration. They're not legal. There is a case that's pending out of Peters. It's called Sunpin versus Peters and there's a planning board member who basically they rejected a solar facility

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and they cited the 2014 DOE bylaw as saying you guys said this and we're going with it and therefore we're rejecting you the solar um and so it's at the SJC. So the SJC will decide do model bylaws by DOE carry legal weight

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or not. >> Fascinating. Um, does Peter Sam have their own bylaws >> for solar? They do. >> Yeah, they do. Yeah, >> posted on the status of that uh decision.

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>> Totally. I think everyone's waiting for it, including >> blast it right out when it comes. >> Yeah, I will. So, so that's that. It's um >> it there's a lot running on all of this

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up, >> you know, you know, uh correct me or or uh supplement what I say here if you think so, but I think to go back to Ashley's question about, you know, the bylaw whether a town has one or not on solar, I mean, I think the

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crux of it is that the the model bylaw is intended, especially at this point since the state has kind of gone through this whole like process up the air with the various decisions and uh you know we reworking

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the smart roads and you know feedback from municipalities and other stakeholders right it's to provide you know what the DOER sees as reasonable regulation right so >> not necessarily that's the problem so

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>> so like so like the the director of the divi sighting and peritting division you know, when he was presenting a couple months ago about this stuff, what he said is, "We're going to put out what we think is, you know, something that could be a model, but municipalities can

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have stricter characteristics than what we're saying. So, it's sort of like, is it a model that we should sort of shoot for or if we locally have some differing ideas or needs, you know, so like setbacks are a

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perfect one. there in the draft the setbacks was 25 ft for a solar installation. I think ours is 500, you know, so like it it sort of matters like do we have to do 25 feet? They said they

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explicitly said no. So between 25 and 500, what's the truth? You know, like it's it's trying to understand what they're saying and what we have to do and then revisiting it. So clear as mud. >> All right. I thought that was would be a

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reasonable kind of meaning for it, but apparently not. So, thank you for clarifying that. And um I had one other question, Michael. I'm trying to remember what it was. >> Oh, the uh the model bylaw you speak of

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from over a decade ago, >> March. >> Oh, 2014. Yeah. >> Did that predate SMRT? >> It predated SMART. It didn't necessarily predate, you know, because smart was the

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third iteration iteration. So there was the SRE program, SRE one, SRE 2, and then SMRT. So I'm not sure when the SRE started, but it was probably similar. I think SRE started in 2010, maybe. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking like

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with Smart, I feel uh Yeah, I don't know a lot about smart, so I guess I'll just leave it at that. I have to be short because you got 10 minutes left. I'll tell you the only thing about about the fees is just as this this may might be moot, but if the

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local government representative does not pass and it ends up that we can't charge the applicant for consultant fees. What other municipalities have been talking about is jacking up the solar fees so you can pay a consultant to do the work of the local

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government representative like significantly because a consultant would cost thousands of dollars. So it's something in our back pocket if we need to do it. So it's mostly just to sort of say if the LGR doesn't happen, we probably should be revisiting because otherwise we're going to be on the hook

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for money we don't have. And we can update fees um with >> administrative way >> administrative. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. That's simple. >> Yeah. So that's my update.

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>> Okay. Thank you, Michael, for keeping us on this. Okay. Now, um member updates. Does anyone have uh any updates they want to do? >> I do. Um so Wheelock I I made a calendar. I

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think there was like four maybe three possible days where most of us could go and they did get back to me. I'm just going into my email. I believe we have a date of August 13th.

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Um hang on. Yeah, 8:13, which I think for you, Michael, had to be in the morning. And he sent me, it's Marcos Quintana. Um, he sent me an invoice that or sorry, an invite that I cannot open, but I

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believe it's 10 to 11:30. And he said he's still waiting, he is quote still circulating internally for approvals for external personnel to enter the site.

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but let's plan for an 813 site visit. So that's what's happening. He did email me back initially and hang on um wanted to know why. He said, "What would

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be the agenda and objectives of this site visit?" And I just responded and said, "You know, we're the regulatory board that oversees it and it's part of our duties to go visit and I could talk to the board and see if um we could come

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up with a list." So, that's where that's at. >> It's in the decision that uh for site visits, right? I'm sorry. >> It's in the the decision um mentioned.

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. In the safe is it purposes there to make sure that company is complying with it or if anything new comes up issues come up. >> I don't I don't think I mean he hasn't asked about it again. I answered that

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and he didn't mention it. I just in the answer that I gave him, I also said I could ask the board if there was anything particular and I know of course like the you know the battery storage and establishing a a perimeter around it

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um for fire suppression and uh the herbicides I think we wanted to discuss. Those are a couple things that I wrote down from the last meeting. uh vegetation percentage of ground cover,

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storm water infrastructure. Can we bring a plant ecologist? I'm just looking at my notes from the last meeting. I can give him that list. Why do we want a plant ecologist? >> Does anyone remember?

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>> I think I don't remember. >> I think it might have been Keith. >> Okay. >> Might have been Keith White. >> I wrote also slashstipend question mark. So I >> What was plant ecologist

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question mark? >> Stipen. >> Ecologist. Yeah. >> Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. >> Sorry. I know you can't determine my cryptic notes either. Um I don't know. >> Well, my my main concern was that there

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there are two large batteries. One that's a little bit higher in elevation um has um burnable material that goes right into the center part that center forest. Um, so that's my main concern that if there was a fire in the higher

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battery storage area, it would lead right into the uh section of forest that's right in the middle of the solar panels. That would be disastrous um in terms of spreading um in terms of a fire spreading. So um okay, that that's my

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main concern. uh Ashley, if you wanted to, you could uh basically just give them a copy of the decision and point out the condition affording site visits. Um that's the agenda or, you know, or basically say,

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you know, we're exercising our writing conditions to uh visit the site and evaluate it with the conditions. Let's send the decision. >> Something to that. >> Yeah. Uh, >> I mean I I basically already said that and he hasn't said anything else. So

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>> yeah, >> if you want me to site a decision, I can or I could just, you know, say, "Yeah, we'll be there and we'll wait to hear from you." And >> if if if uh the >> if it comes up again,

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>> um then uh we might also I don't know if you indicated the um plantologist uh potential for that. I haven't >> I haven't indicated any of this to them. >> Yeah. So, that's um

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I don't know if we need one. I don't I don't know if we for me I don't need one. I just need to make sure that the fire can't quickly to that center forest. >> I think what Keith was getting in with the ecologist is you know one that the plant cover well first and foremost is the conditions regarding the pollinator

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meadow, right? I think uh mostly that's gone by the wayside. It hasn't been a success. Um >> right. >> But uh the the other thing with vegetative uh growth around the area is to is a mitigation for erosion and the

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the the role of Atlantic could be to assess you know risk for that kind of uh erosion from rains and whatnot based on vegetation that's there. Um so you know I'm not advocating one way or another. The other the other question

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I would have is does our what's in the conditions will that extend us bringing like guests or you know I know in the past we've also invited the conservation commission along and and they've allowed us to do that but that's just something to keep in mind. Um do you have anything

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else with this Ashley? Any further questions before we move on? >> I don't think so. I I will respond to him and say yes the 13th is a go. I mean, based on what you all gave me, it seems like that date works. And when I

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find just look out for an email from me, you know, as far as when it's going to actually happen. >> Michael, are you trying to >> just >> Yeah, just I think your point about the concom is really good. I forgot about that. So, the last two site visits, the

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concom has come. So it seems like if we have a once we get a confirmed date it might be good Nathan if you wanted to or Ashley to reach out to the concom once I mean I think actually we should just let them know that concom members might be coming they haven't objected in the pre

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prior but I think it would be reasonable since the concom has regulatory issues with that as well just to invite them someone might show up >> right >> we had good turnout in the last one >> okay >> I have another poss possible concern for

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fire hazards. I don't know if there is one, but there are certainly um significant uh small trees and shrubs that are growing right through the solar panels and maybe into the electrical wires of those solar panels. So, I'm not sure if that's a um a fire concern of a

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tree coming up and doing something to the wiring underneath the panels that might cause a short circuit of some kind in a fire. So, that's just a that's just a concern of mine. So I think I maybe would just be very general in the email and then we can

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talk about how I mean will we meet before that before the 13th? >> Um yeah we'll meet on the uh on the 10th is our next meeting right >> maybe at that meeting we could formalize

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a list of things that we want to talk about. you know, I could say to him fires, you know, concerns around fire are one of the things that we're going to be >> So, let's wrap this up. We'll discuss it at the next meeting, we can agenda. I'm

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also just going to make a quick reminder when you go on a site visit, you know, talk about things. >> Um, so it's good that we're meeting right before that. It gives us a chance to kind of put the questions together or whatnot. >> Maybe invite the fire marshall as well. >> You could do that. Yeah.

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I can certainly add that to the email. >> Yeah. Can we send out once we have the date, can we send out an invitation to the fire marshall of the of spring? >> I mean, I think it sounds like we have a date. He sent me an invitation. It just is weird. But yeah, I can confirm with

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him and I will start a new email to all of you. I guess I could do it to you, to the concom to the fire marshal. >> Yeah, sure. Do you think I should tell Marcos first like, "Hey, you might have a crowd."

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>> Yeah, I think should just let him I would say let him know that the concom will come as they have in the past. Leave it at that >> and you know it might be worth seeing if Lenny wants to come. >> I don't think he necessarily the fire chief.

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>> Yeah, I imagine he could just go there if he wanted to, right? I mean anytime. Could he or no? I don't know. It's private property, so I think you have to get permission. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you can figure all that out, but uh it's um >> I know you're trying to wrap up.

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>> Yeah. No, I mean, you know, you can u send it out. Let uh let them know what we're doing and um just communicate about things that uh need to be communicated about and then don't violate with the meeting, of course. But none of this should because it's a

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scheduling first site visit, right? >> Okay. Um, if you have any questions like reach out to Michael any questions come up Ashley? Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I wanted to give a quick update or was

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Yeah. All right. Quick update for me is I have not forgotten that we need to approve minutes from our executive sessions and uh that'll probably be on the agenda in August. Uh, but I just thought that this meeting was going to be full enough. And sure enough, it's 9:00 and

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we're wrapping up. So hopefully uh in August we can u we'll get to that. >> And that's it. Uh, anyone else? >> Next meeting would be August 10th. Is that correct? >> I've got August 10th. So

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>> Okay. Okay. >> Move to adjourn. >> Um, yeah. Yeah, we have no unanticipated business stuff. So, motion to adjourn is in order. >> I'll make that motion. >> I do want to point out that Michael is starting to look like that old movie

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with Deep Throat. You remember all the President's Men? >> All the President's Men. Good. >> It's going dark. Michael, it's like you're a spy now. >> Totally. >> Are you a a covert? >> I'm in Canada.

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>> I'm in Canada. explains everything. No, that's the >> Are you in like a warehouse? >> No, I'm in a campground. >> I'm in a campground. You escaped. >> Unless you went to the out of the country.

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>> I will not be beaming in from any camping trips ever. Just FYI as a testament to Michael. Michael Michael is dedicated at another level. Um, no, seriously though, that is uh it's appreciated.

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Thank you, Michael, for coming today. >> Sure. >> You didn't you didn't volunteer to be chair, so I can't think of that much, but >> the vice chair is uh good enough for me. I'll take >> Okay, >> now we've got a motion on the table to

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adjourn. Let's have a roll call. >> We didn't get a second. >> We did. >> Yeah, I second. I did. I did. >> Michael second. He's got the second. >> He's not even here. He's not >> He's He's in another country. So, Breastler moves here. Seconds to

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all right. Breastler. >> Hi, Jara. >> Hi, >> He might be gone entirely. Okay, he's a chari >> I >> see >> I

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>> Weston >> I sorry >> number I the planning board is adjourned >> thank you all for coming and have a wonderful evening >> Ashley happy summer vacation congratulations you made it >> thank you >> I'm doing a 200 hour teacher training

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right now for yoga. So, I've been on a screen like eight hours today, but it's almost over. >> See you all. Okay.