e yeah e e e e e e e e hi mik can you hear me Michael I can great how are you uh I'm doing okay how are you good good thanks for all of your work it's like a Beyond um I appreciate everything that you've done um thank you thank you I appreciate it Michael you're a little quiet can you move your mic closer to you how's that that's just a little bit better thank you uh let's see I'll do my I'll change my mic see if I can get my mic louder oh I know why there you go how's that that's better yeah it's on the wrong setting thank you how is everybody good ready for an exciting evening yeah if I start drooling please wake me up the high point the high point for me is gonna be the message from the chair I've never seen that before wow yeah I hope it's inspirational message so yeah while we're waiting what's up what's happening Michael oh the big news is our cat died today one of oh I'm sorry yeah that was very sad he was around for about 15 years that's a long time he died in the kitchen just every other cat we've had has gone out in the woods and not come back so I'm sorry what was uh his his name was scribbles scribble he's a good guy great hugger wow like he did like real human being hugs wow with with his paws yeah like this it's crazy look like a little baby oh I'm sorry sorry to hear that Michael yeah thank you yeah how are you Nathan I'm doing well how are you I'm doing all right like your shirt oh thank you I bet I'm sorry I was gonna say I bet your kids were upset to hear the news um or maybe not I don't know no they they were you know they get older one texted back and said that's sad I'm at work you know so I'm sure they're sad we're just not getting the communication for it so well at least you responded to you that is true I'm sorry yeah how about anyone else how's how are you Keith and [Music] Tom I'm good and uh my dog just walked by so the dog is still alive so that's good I could add that um our dog Carl got through his second annual vet check okay with us us yay we've only had him for two years he's about 5 years old but last time we had to give him like sedatives beforeand and they actually made him jumpier and um they heard him crying like almost in the parking lot when they cut his nails in the vet's office not today though today he was really well behaved it was great oh good no Nail clipping how big is he 17.8 pounds five so we got a little reprimand for that but and Nathan did your um did your kids survive being taken care of by um was it your parents or your wife's parents um Town town meeting was my parents so yeah they they did fine with that everyone was okay with that so uh you know that worked out well good yeah good good um so it looks like we're a little thin on uh on full members here we may have to uh take advantage of our newly uh oh invoked home rule how cool yeah yeah um I'm my computer is so slow I'm I'm trying to get connected on zoom and I was gonna try and at least uh you know would someone pick up the phone and uh call Deacon if you have Deacon's number I will and then does anyone have Steve bressler's uh number I I might I might be able to text him so we'll waiting Carrie how are you doing I'm doing okay how are you okay any news with you um not really I wish there was [Music] what's for yeah this is not uh okay well I think at this point okay I got the zoom meeting recording in progress Steve is on his way okay and Deacon didn't pick up and uh can you hear me now we can okay good I can hear one all right so uh all right Steve is on his way um Deacon didn't pick up Steve shows up right and um okay Steve is here and for the time being I will designate both uh Keith and Tom to uh to sit in a lot tonight um oh and Ashley's here and Ashley's there okay so now it's uh we got every now I'm gonna D designate both of you because I don't want to have to flip a coin so uh hopefully Deacon will show up and uh you know if we have a tiebreaker then we'll uh figure it out okay um actually welcome can you hear us okay all right it's 708 I'm going to call the meeting of the planning board to order a meeting is being recorded and uh the uh first item of course is the uh message from the chair and uh I can promise it won't be uh often that I will uh subject you to these things however I feel moved to uh deliver a statement in regarding the following statement uh followup questions will be ignored person attempting to find motive in the statement will be prosecuted in persons attempting to find a moral and it will be banished the chair statement for children and parents of children is a quote from Kurt vaget slaughterhouse 5 page 17 I have told my students that they are not under any circumstances to take part in massacres and that news of massacres of enemies is not to fill them with satisfaction or Glee that is all okay the next item on the agenda is uh this is the final regulatory regularly scheduled meeting of the planning board for fiscal year 2024 as such at the next uh regularly scheduled meeting which will be the second Monday of June uh Carrie you have your hand up thought fiscal year starts July 1st so the last one be the June one oh yeah you know what um It's Only May okay thank you thank you so much Carrie so we can just scratch that item okay this was just we've got one more one more regularly scheduled meeting in this fiscal year okay so heads up everyone okay make it good okay we're gonna make it good all right um all right moving on to next one was Town election results so uh big congratulations to uh to Ashley who is now a fully elected uh member of the planning board and also uh you know congratulations to uh Jeff Weston and myself for being reected to three-year terms all right so so excited she disappeared yeah I was gonna say I don't know if that affects functionality at all oh wow um well we're okay because we we still have six members yes yeah okay um and we do have a we you know we have a a quorum with four members and we'll have more as needed hopefully Ashley will be back in a moment um is there anyone here for public comment no okay hearing none we'll move on uh landowner education and guidance of any I don't believe I see anyone for that but I do see Mr uh Bernard here and I believe that uh since you're here and since we got so late I'm gonna I'm Gonna Bump the uh item I have uh at 710 which Weck special permit uh brought by Keith and we'll move on um uh before we start doing that Ashley welcome back thanks sorry I don't know what's happening but it seems like I'm here now well that's good and um you know now that you're back I do want to just make a quick uh note uh congratulatory note on your being elected to a uh as a full planning board member in the town election we just had congratulations thank you official it's yeah you're you're you're you're PB official now that's good okay and uh we're gonna bump uh the the uh the Wheelock special permit uh agenda item uh because uh we're going to move on to um the anr for 309 montue Road uh 315 montue Road and I see that uh Jerry is here hi Jerry welcome Jerry thank thank you for coming um so uh I am going to share my my screen so that we can look at this hey Nathan yes just for the record it's Gary Bernard I'm sorry I I'm okay sorry name you something and then call you something else that's what happens I'm my first name is John oh okay well I uh but I'm Gary Sean Gary well um my apologies for uh the mixup on the name um all right all right can everyone see my screen almost has started and I can adjust the Zo Zoom as well there we go we got it okay there it is all right all right so I'm going to start by zooming in here a little bit um so this is montue Road and we have a partial a here to be con conveyed to uh rard parcel not to be considered a separate building lot Revis lot 15 revise lot 16 well uh I guess to to help us uh you want to John Jerry would you like to uh explain a little bit what uh what you need to accomplish with this to help us understand what we're looking at yeah let me uh a little bit of background um you know we uh we bought a uh one acre parcel um with a house on it that was built in 1960 in 1983 and then we put if you can scroll down a little bit I can show you uh what happened a little more down to the yeah our house is in that blue um triangle there our house is it says just 315 on it but that little um little box to the right of it is a screen porch that we had put on about uh 15 years ago and uh the uh the Builder uh apparently didn't uh check out I mean there are a couple of problems with this this whole thing but didn't didn't check out the property line and so our almost all of our screen board is uh is on the land of 309 and so uh we um the the buyer in 309 uh was perfectly happy to make these changes to put in a cut out a little rectangle of his property so our screen porch would would be on on 315 and uh and then we uh we bought another five acres in um 1987 and and then he would have the same amount of of uh of land uh from that parcel that we bought um so long ago and uh so in order to do this we have to fill fill out a form a and we both signed it um the survey did I think a great job and you know we're both happy with with the resolution I should also say that that unfortunately we're we are um leaving shs bar uh after 42 years in town um just because we can't do the stairs anymore but um we we um you know we so we're we've actually had a uh uh had a a bid and uh that we've accepted and uh so we'll you know will probably be closing either by the end of this month or by the first week in June so we had to get this settled uh make sure that we um got this taken care of so that uh you know in the in the future we would have a a new plot plan that was accurate well that that was a very prise and helpful explanation I was able to follow that um was everyone else able to follow along with that uh basically what we've got going on is um this portion we're looking at here right this uh this is the deck right it was on the the land of the the neighbor number 309 over here so this area is going to be conveyed over here to uh Bernard and then this is the uh other other l that was uh purchased right and we have this section that's in Gray here you can see these lines here indicate that this section uh not a separate building lot right is going to be right conveyed over to the owner of 309 what does it say uh um beneton I don't know if I pronounce that right okay so um the the plan does not show a subdivision because it does not uh you know uh create any new lots that do not have adequate uh Frontage um it's just moving a little bit of land from one one lot to another and vice versa uh so I uh don't see any reason that this would not be uh approval not required does anyone have any uh thoughts to the contrary does anybody have any questions I just have a statement okay Gary you will be missed thank you for your service to town thank you Michael it's really um it's it's really been a very hard decision you know I love living in shb and I love being you know connected uh to the town and uh so it's we're getting used to it it's it's it's uh it's been a while I think you're still on recycling committee so thank you yeah I'm gonna be handing out bags up at Lake wola in [Laughter] June well we uh we all wish you the very best of luck in uh in this next uh phase for you and um and again as Michael said thank you for your long service to the town thank you thanks very much so Nathan I'm happy to make a motion I just want to clarify is the a anr for 309 and 315 right because it's swapping is that how to do the motion well you know what you could say is that uh let's just we can we could just take a quick look at the paperwork um just so this is a okay so you can say approve the uh you know and are jointly submitted by you know John Gary Bernard and uh Brian D benony um okay I I'll I'll move to approve the um anr for 315 monteu Road and 309 monteu Road on behalf of John Gary bernart and Brian D batony I'll second that thank you Steve any discussion none all right then I will call the role um DEA hi hi cof hi um westler hi Weston hi and I'm and I motion passes unanimously thank I just have I just have one more question do I need anything from you guys I do okay yes um I can I can make it into town hall on Thursday and I can I am authorized to sign or basically to endorse these plans on behalf of the board um so once I do that then then you can pick them up and or or you or your neighbor uh can pick them up and cause them to be recorded as needed and do what you will with them um so so this is what I need to give the lawyer in other words or lawyers y okay and you're gonna be there on Thursday yeah I can I can I can go in at some point on Thursday I'll probably be after 10 o'clock or so when uh Carrie gets into the office and I'll just sign up you know I'll just endorse the plans um has has payment been made uh the payment has been the 309 is closed so that one's that one's sold ours is uh in the process now we have a we have a bid and uh we're going through the closing process now no I Carrie yeah his the fee was paid and everything everything's all set um I did send out an email that I won't be in the office this week but um Becky Becky and Grace have a key to the um office and um you'll see his on the desk um yeah just make sure you leave two of the paper copies behind one for us and one for the assessor okay thank you I can do that so um yeah I will just get down to the town hall then um I'll probably get there on the earlier side uh and I can um send you a quick email that would be helpful yeah you just tell me when you're going to be there I'll meet you there okay um me I I could plan to be there uh around uh let's say nine o'clock sure all right I'm just going to make a little note in my calendar e okay that should be good okay I'll see you then nine o'clock on Thursday sounds good um and uh I'm just yes that should be fine and uh if something comes up I'll I'll just find a way to get in touch with you just you know okay but that should be that should be fine uh thanks everybody bye Gary bye thank you by bye all right very good very good um okay so we'll go back to the other item we special permit um uh Keith actually uh emailed me about this so I just figured I would throw it on the agenda um he was wondering when the last time anybody took a look at the uh the the Wheelock site with respect to you know the special permit conditions there have been some work that have been done there and so on and so forth um I'm U mostly uh hands off on on this though I I I uh I'm comfortable just putting it on the agenda and uh you know Keith if you want to make a few comments if you have any questions or yeah I I is the the special permit available is it posted somewhere that that the public can look at what the permit conditions were um and then I mean is that I I assume that's a public document there's no proprietary information on it um and then I know the concom did a visit I think it's probably been four years ago five years ago when they did a visit and I just wondered again if if it's written in the special permit that they have to or they will uh let us inspect the property uh to see that the drainage structures are working properly and that the vegetation has taken uh and again I just think somebody from the town should give it a once over I know we get the annual report from them but they're kind of brief uh and I don't know did we get the report for last year yeah so we we're still do a report and then I think again it would be good for for either planning board or maybe in in in tandem with the concom uh take take a walk through the site and just to see what's uh what's happening did we not get a report I think we did I didn't look at it but I'm I believe it came in through email did you send it to it got sent to all of us oh maybe um I think so I remember replying to the woman who sent it and cing you in the email Nathan I can check in my email to see when it came yeah and if if it's not forwarded to everyone I will and about how long ago was this Ashley it's been some months I think maybe let me check I'll I'll chime back in yeah the reports due to us by the 15th of each year so I'm guessing it was probably like late February or March if it if it came they're they're not timely um but while Ashley's looking I can just sort of respond to Keith's other question if that makes sense um so Keith I think it was somewhere with the last two years I don't think it was last year that we did a joint um site visit about the concom and the planning board for exactly the reasons you're talking about because um the I always get the the actual term wrong but it's the it's the the I want to say retaining area but where the water comes detention retention I I get them mixed up to yeah so that spot where it's supposed to catch the water um was not functioning correctly so Deacon and Jeff and I I think were the people from the planning board I know Miriam came maybe Penny um for the concom I not exactly sure on the concom I know Miriam was there but it wasn't working correctly so we went they did some interventions and I think Jeff went back after to find out if it was working but you know it it has been at least a year um May probably 18 months or so so it it seems reasonable and you know the trigger was we got the report and we had questions so I you know there's we need we need to be accompanied on there and they have to give us permission but there's but we have the right of inspection um so I think if we can find the report and either way we want to just sort of since there was to start IAL issues there's no reason we we couldn't set it up um and I guess you know two other things I mean Ashley was the point person this year but you know if you if you have a particular interest and Ashley you know wants to flip it over to you you could probably you know set that up um and then the last thing was the the special permit I don't think is posted it should be I've got a copy so I can put it on the website because it is a public document and it's worth looking at um so I'll make sure I do that the next couple of days so it's there yeah I mean I think if we could again because there's still every now and then Community interest publish those again I I assume those reports they give us every year are not again any kind of industry secret that we could post those just so the public can see what's going on behind the fence uh and I I've never been out there so I'm curious to see what's going on behind the fence is has anybody else visited or anybody else interested in visiting to to take a look I I'll go again I was there I was there back when Michael was talking about when the conom and planning board did a joint visit and Michael it was probably about 18 18 months ago okay um and comcom should have a report as to the conditions we found back then G I could go through my email and see if I can find it and forward it the report well if comcom did like write down a site visit form then I should have seen it in comcom if miam did send it to me cool so so I just did the annual report for 2022 right which went through June 30th 2023 and I understand it correct there was followup actions that took place during that year uh there was a couple times when Jeff Lacy was talking about the work that they were doing on the ditch and they were you know in the road and everything like that so if that was 2022 2023 it was probably in uh late 2021 early 2022 that uh you know we had the site visit and went down there and said hey you know uh right there was some road damage right and you know that we had some follow-up items with them at that point um just to if just to help clarify in the timing but anyway you know so uh yeah that's uh take it away I'm not having any luck finding it I'm sorry I thought I saw it and then it disappeared oh the yeah you know um the report also I did just forward to everyone oh you got it you found it okay good must have put it in a random folder ah there it is okay I'm definitely interested in visiting if I could work it out I mean if you have you developed a a a a dialogue with whoever the site manager is that you could make the inquiry or oh I mean she and I it just really basic communication Keith I just reached out to her and said I'm just checking in about the report we're wondering when it's going to come and she responded with the report that's it and I said thank you but yeah I mean I have a connection so I could reach out to her and perhaps we could set a timeline yeah so you know there's Town Town officials would like to visit the site and next time they have a crew on site or somebody on site that could uh show us escort us around that I mean I would appreciate it I would like to see exactly what's happening there I also go ahead Michael I was going to say maybe for next meeting for our last meeting of the fiscal year we could actually have a conversation we could have a conversation about the report because like what we've done before is you know there's stuff that they're in the special permit that you're supposed to report on but um since this is the official document we should just look at it and see if there's anything that we want to um have questions on comment on we can make sure that's on the agenda yeah thank you um I I was around when you set up the last visit and I feel like a several dates were given and then people just could go if they could go the the date that most people had in common so I'm happy to try and set that up with her maybe just give it a start and see what she says sounds great okay uh does anyone remember was it a weekend thing or a weekday thing I think it was afternoon of a weekday okay all right I will do that and see what she says thank you yeah Keith thanks for bringing this up it's uh yeah it it does seem like it's something that's our responsibility to stay on top of so yeah all right thanks everybody for a thing all right okay all right next item we have uh the we Rel received another uh round of preliminary subdivision plans from Kohl's and so on this one um they were hand delivered to the town hall on Friday April 26 26 right um so now in the past uh in this situation uh we more or less you know this uh We've cited um a section of the subdivision control law uh 810 and it provides some requirements for submitt and you know kind of going through the subdivision control law and and looking at the plans we got last time there's U you know the section on and you know I might make I'm just going to share my screen again just so we can kind of uh look out I'm just going to kind of review some of the conversations that I've had okay so this is uh section 810 regulation of new [Music] subdivisions and uh you so there's a there's a bunch of words here um the piece that was cited by us in the past was a plan shall be submitted under this section when delivered at a meeting of the board or when sent by registered mail to the planning board if so mailed uh the date of receipt shall be the date of submission of the plan and uh and last time we had this you I was looking at some case live and one example that more or less referen this this is submission of a preliminary plan approval or disapproval and recording and this also you know has a bunch of words on it right and uh it says also at the end here except as otherwise provided the provisions of the subdivision control law relating to a plan shall not be applicable to a preliminary plan and no register of deeds so record a preliminary plan so I the the case law that kind of brought my attention to this was relating to someone had tried to challenge a planning board in court over their disapproval of a preliminary plan and you know I kind of wondered well would that you know kind of come into play with you know what we did um you and I did speak with Town Council about this uh you her opinion was that you know just from kind of briefly taking a look at you know what I had referenced with the uh the case law which I I can probably dig that up to but uh she didn't think that it necessarily translated in that way um she didn't have a problem with us taking the same line as we have in the past um and but you know didn't give me the Imp basically give me the impression it wasn't really uh something that may may may not have been litigated so it may be kind of like one of those things where it's just uh it could be considered an open question and I just wanted to kind of like you know elaborate on this a little bit here and uh at this point I'm going to hand it over to Michael and you know Michael's also been involved in some of these conversations with Town Council so Michael please you know say say your piece on this yeah so I mean Nathan and I chatted about this a bit and I talked to Donna as well you know at his request so the the question is um as Donna pointed out and I think she's correct you know what is submitting um what Donna talked about with the the section the second one that that Nathan had shared with us which is the section s that says that it doesn't apply to preliminary you know my read was that it was about filing and Reporting uh which is is sort of what Donna was saying but what Donna was clear about is there's no clear definition of submitting that's consistent um the only place where defining what submitting is is the section 810 which is what we looked at last time and what we based our decision and that's the one that doesn't that says it has to be sent by registered mail or a planning board meeting so you know my position that I you know I shared with Nathan is I think sending pretty much the same letter we sent last time um not not for January but the the previous one um and I think the other thing that for me you know because it could be that this it's a little clear unclear but if you all remember when Tom Rey who's the lawyer for Kohls came before us you know earlier in the early in the year um he wanted to submit subdivision plans and we had a conversation about he can't submit it at a meeting because we were on Zoom but that he should specifically send it registered mail um in the end he actually didn't send it registered mail he sent a priority mail but we sort of decided to sort of not split you know split hairs about that but at that point he he didn't say hey look at 810 or 81 us rather he sort of he agreed that like I'll send it in he was agreeing with us in the process and so he is a land attorney he deals with KS bu other people so it feels like between the re you know Donna's Donna acknowledging it's not clear but also saying that she feels like the second section is really about filing and not submission um and the fact that it's a preliminary plan um that to do what we did last time you know they have never submitted a definitive plan so they always have that option of coming back in seven months and actually submitting one um but it it seems to me that based on what we did um the last time where we basically said you technically you didn't submit anything because you didn't present it at a planning board meeting and you didn't send it to register mail handing it to the planning board Clerk or the town clerk is not sufficient for to meet the the definition of submission by Statute so um Donna basically said it's up to the board to decide she didn't want to you know she left it for us to sort of look at these two opposing things Nathan and I have talked about so it's I think just having the conversation about how we want to proceed but um I guess my argument would be I'd like to do what we did last time because I'm sort of basing it on 810 which is that definition of either at a meeting or by registered mail neither of which they did so so you know probably pretty pretty low Stakes uh decision either way here you know a lot would uh have to happen for this to really come to a head all I really wanted to do you know going back to 2023 when we first did this and that was you know we had our special town meeting we had did have a zoning Amendment for a solar bylaw which has said it's been rejected by the Attorney General but uh that I think felt a little bit high stakes to us at the time you know we did this uh you know I don't recall you know looking at the language of 81s so I wanted to have the discussion um and see if there was anyone that wanted to uh take a different approach or if uh so you know if there's anyone that is interested in pursuing something different you know I I'll uh say now as a time to speak up and if not then uh you know I don't know Michael do you want to get that uh version that letter up uh sure I got it right here you need to be made Co okay there you go yeah so it's pretty identical they have a new engineering firm so it's tetr Tech um but it would go to you know CO's enter the new engineering firm and all this first part is exactly what we sent in 2003 um we can take this out the Board of Health did get a plan um and it doesn't it doesn't say how they're supposed to get it so you know Katherine Hilton said that they got it um I didn't follow I don't know Carrie if you heard about um well with the town cork it's sort of it's also great because in their packet they had a cover letter to the town clerk what technically is supposed to happen is they're supposed to submit it either at a meeting or by regist mail to the planning board and then once that has been officially submitted then they send a they can hand a letter or send a letter to the town clerk saying that it has been submitted so you know technically including a cover letter in the application packet is not after the fact but I think that's less important um so I think it's just basically sending the same letter which essentially says that based on Section 810 they didn't submit um and therefore we're we're rejecting it um I think I Michael yeah Qui a quick question it says they can submit it at a planning board meeting but since we don't meet in person what's the AL alternative to that registered mail and so if you're call and we had the conversation Tom Rey came to our meeting yeah I remember that yeah and so he asked that question he said well I've got it here but if I can't give it to you because you're on Zoom what do I do and we told him send it registered mail and he was like okay I'll do that so that was that's sort of my point is like he wasn't saying hey don't these options don't meet statute he just picked the the way that complied with statute so here here's my only concern okay this statute was written before Co right right and so I I don't know if I mean I'm happy to send this letter along but I think it I don't know how meaningful it'll be because somebody could claim well you don't meet in person anymore so we can't deliver it in person to the planning board and so you know somebody might come up with a defense and say because of covid there's no alternative to in person so we delivered it to directly to town hall well there is an alternative to I mean in statute registered mail is a defined yeah I understand that but I I'm I'm speculating here okay um again I I'm fine sending this but I wonder how meaningful it will be to the powers that be well with this particular case it was delivered on April 26th so I don't know if it would be anything arguable against us considering the time frame you know there wasn't they submitted it after our meeting in April and before like right in between the two meetings so I guess if it was like an issue they can't come because the meetings are on zoom and what you're saying which makes sense the time frame I don't I don't know that it would be a concern for this particular submission Carrie have your hand up yeah I know Michael was asking some of these questions um or through email about uh Grace's end of it um I was wondering if you had heard from Grace at all with those questions she ended up being um out sick that week that you had asked so I couldn't ask her in person and yeah I I I assume I haven't talked to Grace is the the short answer um I feel like it's not as important to pursue only because you know there was a cover letter in the packet which is not really how it's supposed to happen but you know going to the mat on that one seems like it's it's less important than how it actually gets because all that they're all the telling the C clerk is to say hey town we submitted these subdivision plans so the town clerk is the official recipient for for the town I think the the issue that's more important is that uh the subdivision plans are supposed to give to the planning board prior to that happening um and so that's sort of the the nut of it you know did they submit the proper way or not and if they didn't if they did then they were submitted and if they did not they were not submitted okay I I only asked because um when she had shown me the plans which I think was that following Tuesday before she left on her conference she had mentioned that she had signed something for him so I don't know if that's what it was but I never got to follow up afterwards because then she went on a conference and then she end up getting sick so yeah I that was the only thing I thought was worth bringing up that's probably ever see yeah it's the same it's the exact same thing that happened last time you know in 2023 he showed up gave her the plan she signed a receipt saying that it was received and we clarified that in fact that's not how you do it and I mean Ashley did you you know I kind of um kind of ruply jumped over to carry while you were after you were done with what you said but did you have any kind of followup there I don't think so I just was acknowledging I think um Steve makes a good point yeah but I don't know I mean my brain at this time of day isn't super functional especially when it comes to like dates and math so I just don't know if it's going to be an issue because of the timing of this particular submission I think they could have submitted it to our board meeting or gotten it to us by registered mail but like clearly the date of April 26 is significant they were trying to get it in at that point yeah you know it's uh you know the thing the thing is right you know and and Jeff has said this and you know he's kind of right with uh um preliminary plans it's you know they don't carry a lot of regulatory weight um you know you can do it and it's and it's supposed to be a way to kind of uh get your ducks in a row for when you submit a definitive um subdivision plan but you know and obviously ly it it also is uh incorporated into the provisions of the zoning act that deal with uh protections um from from new zoning right you know the the so-called zoning freeze and you know so you know the kind of you know the question is that you know is this um position on 810 you know going to be we don't know right basically unless un until you go to court and uh and do it that way uh you don't know I if at some point they submit a definitive plan and say Hey or if they you know maybe submit an application for something and say you know we have a a zoning freeze at that point you know we have an opportunity to talk and and make a decision then as to what we're going to do um right uh or or we can you know say we're not going to do it and see what they do see if we end up uh right you what happens right so it's anyway we got a couple people with the hands up ke Keith that your hand up first and then Jeff so why don't you go Keith yeah I guess um I don't know when that that Mass General law was written um whether it's pre- digital communication or not um I don't know why registered mail is any High bar uh especially for a law firm uh that seems like a routine uh thing that any law firm would do daily is is send out Communications via registered mail um so I don't know if there's anything that I'm not aware of that the hand delivering things to town hall I I ass and I assume the Mass General law was written to protect the towns somehow that uh things aren't going to fall through the cracks by somebody saying oh I dropped off my correspondents with whoever happened to be in the front office at the time so I I assume it's again to protect us and now whether or not the town could could we ignore and just say well we'll take it like we did the last time with the priority mail which you know technically is just male um and and then if we do that do we set a precedent for anybody else that's submitting something that well there there's a signature there and I mean you know there's uh you know uh we are Quasi judicial body right so you know there can be uh discrepancies and how we apply uh things but I think in terms of state law generally I I mean I'm not a lawyer but probably the courts are more the ones that set the Precedence on that um and then uh but yeah I mean it's uh you you make a good point that with uh you know the registered mail it's kind of like a you know GI have to sign for it it's h pretty it's a formal step and it is in the definition and it really isn't difficult so I I mean I'm kind of they're they're bright people they should be able to put something in registered mail and get it to us again I'm not sure there's not again I have no clue if it's just uh Expedition uh trying to be expeditious and and getting it out or or what on their part um but I kind of feel like they should it's a pretty easy hurdle okay to me good uh Jeff you're muted well well um in my view there's obviously a reason that they brought it on on the 26th um their attorneys they must know why they did that and we have to remember that they're suing the town of shutesbury why should we accept it they did it incorrectly we should say no you submitted it incorrectly they obviously obviously thought that the 26 was important for them to do it and they messed up again you know and that's what happens I think we definitely should say sorry not submit it on time or not submit it on the 26th that's how I feel why are we being not why are we trying to be accommodated to accommodating to someone who's suing us that's the question I asked the planning board oh thank you Jeff no reason anything can I jum in quickly yeah please yeah I mean I think just getting back to the I Keith I agree with you um my my read is they don't have a very good Tickler system so literally the last three times you've had Town meetings with anything related to zoning the afternoon before town meeting they show up and they hand it to whoever is in town hall you know if they were organized they would have done it a week before it's really not that hard but they end up handing it to us because they're behind the eightball and they've done it now three times um it's and it's like clockwork I mean they it's not even two days before time meeting it's always the afternoon before um and so it's like okay if you're going to be doing that do it by the book you are lawyers none of us on is call are lawyers but we're reading statute um it it seems like a reasonable and I agree with Keith it's what they do you know I mean lawyers still send faxes you know so you know it's just how they operate yeah uh Michael you said that Tom REI was agreeable in the past about a very similar matter um was that for a preliminary plan or for a plan preliminary plan okay then I don't see why this would be any different I was just curious thanks and you know just to kind of kind of clarify um especially after what what Jeff said you know I'm not trying to introduce any any leniency here uh my goal was to bring in the part of the discussion about the provision in 81s that says the provisions of the subdivision control La shall not apply to a preliminary plan um unless unless otherwise provided right so that's kind of it's it's not so much uh leniency as it is well is this something we consider right and then obviously uh in speaking with Don right you can kind of uh seemingly go one way or the other as to whether or not uh this definition of uh submitt U of subdivision plans is specified in 810 is uh is otherwise provided or not right um so uh that was just to clarify what why I was having this discussion right you know to just give the board a chance to to roll that part of it around and and see where we land well as I said before there's no downside to sending that letter like Michael wants to do that's really what it comes down to well you know unless anyone has any uh I mean I think I'd entertain a motion to uh move forward as such well I'll move that we here let me get it up in front of me so I can do it yeah yeah we don't you Hold On It Go here screen okay I gotta get it again so I'll move that we send a letter to Kohl's and their and their attorney reflecting that based on our understanding of section 810 of Mass General law that they did not submit um subdivision plans per statute for four subdivisions which are lever West monu Pratt East and Pratt West um and that the planning board sent a a letter to that effect I'll second thank you now does uh in the last letter we sent them we did not some discrepancies I know at least some of which have been address does anyone want to uh address any of that or just leave it short and sweet as Michael said short and sweet okay all right um by I unless any further discussion okay I will uh call the rooll uh poft hi um Bressler hi Weston hi the Cara hi all right and uh I'm going to abstain on this one okay I think you missed Tom or Tom and Keith voting or no no no I you know I uh with I was gonna do it when we were missing too and then when we were only missing one I said you know I'm just going to I'm not going to do it because I don't want to have to a coin got it so um Nathan thank you for having the conversation I appreciate it of course thanks thank you thank you as well Michael I appreciate it and everyone else yeah thank you m thank you naan thank you so Michael has a copy of that we'll we'll uh I'll connect with him and uh and we'll get a letter out to to that effect that mentions those plans and indicates that per 810 we do not the board does not believe that they are uh you know meets the requirements for submission and uh and go from there sends it off I'll get with carry and uh get that off by registered mail all right that's uh that's good that's that's another big one off the agenda here um okay uh still on the subject of preliminary plans uh We've we had some uh so we received these plans a year ago and we took the same line we're taking on these ones and there was some talk on the board about sending those checks back U we also have checks from this January um and presumably we have some checks from now so none of them have been cashed uh and uh I was going to suggest that we send back the ones from 2023 I was going to suggest that we cast the ones from early wait I'm sorry yeah cast ones from January 2024 since we did uh review of those but you know I don't know you know I'm a little bit I did reach out to Donna on this and she didn't really give me much of an answer um and we do keep the plans on records I I don't know if it's uh I don't know where we come down on this Michael you have a thought yeah it it feels like it should be in parallel to how we perceive the plant so for the ones that we sent the letters for so you know a year ago and and the one we just discussed were not recognizing those as being submitted so we should return the checks for the one where they sent in with the priority mail ultimately they got recognized because we we nodded towards the priority mail so it seems like those we keep right so if if we return the checks I think we should do it registered mail that's fine that's fine we can do that um Carrie um so I have to see who the checks were written from but if they're so last time I sent out the letter I believe going through the the shb was it uh regulations of governing subdivision I think that's where Grace pointed out to me that a copy of the plans have to be sent back along with the letter which is what I did registered mail last time and then I sent just the letter itself to WD Kohl's um now if the checks are from WD KS I should send with that just the letter and not the registered mail packet that's going to the um not manufacturer um consultant correct um yeah I know the ones from 2023 are from Kohl's the ones from 20 early 2024 are from a different is from one of the companies that is a trying to lease with Kohls it wasn't our Lees Associates um but those would be the ones that we would cash those are the ones we actually reviewed and then I don't know what the checks are uh in this round where they're from but we can we can figure that out we can make a phone call if we have to okay um so you know I I bet basically you know I think that uh we have some clear Direction um you know and can we can have a a motion and a vote just to make it uh official right so you know the motion I would like to hear is that uh you know um you know what the practice the board is going to adopt will be to uh return checks if we're not um recognizing a preliminary subdivision plan as having been properly submitted and that uh if if we do uh recognize it that we will accept the fee so second anyone I'll second okay thank you Ashley uh I discussion okay um uh POF hi takea hi westler hi won hi and I'm not okay thank you everyone um let's just clear this up and uh and move on okay uh next on the agenda I have Community engagement and U you know one of the things I uh reason I put this on there you know was you we we had a public hearing for some of our zoning amendments um was it last month the month before and uh you know no one from the public showed up uh probably not not the first time that's happened um so I I would like to attempt to have uh to to Foster um some higher levels of of of Engagement uh with the work we're doing on this board [Music] um and uh again you know this this is good because you know uh like I like I said at the beginning of the meeting I thought this was the last meeting of the fiscal year um but apparently we've got one more meeting and then uh we're in the next fiscal year so uh kind of gives a little bit more time but I just you know I um I have a kind of like the bare bones of the plan uh which I will send to the board uh we could probably touch on it uh next month maybe a little bit and then uh probably uh maybe finalize it right in uh in July right and uh you know basically I I would like to you know send out a town announce right shortly after the beginning of the fiscal year and say Hey you know it's a new fiscal year right uh you know we have these uh board members elected you know next memb is up for election the following election are going to be you know these members and you know these are some of the things we're looking at doing uh the you know here's some of the ongoing you know here's what we have for an ongoing project you know here's uh you know what we're going to be looking at doing this year for you know legislative agendas and or policy agendas or what have you um and uh just saying you know we look forward to giving you updates throughout the year is uh you know we navigate these issues right and then there's the uh newsletter which goes out uh fall winter and spring and I've been kind of seeing these like you know going by going by and I haven't quite uh you know made anything happen with them but I I would like to uh you know have a planning board entry going to these uh these newsletters with updates on what's going on just so that people are seeing uh are seeing it um and you know there's probably a little more but uh micheel you have your hand up what do you got yeah well I think doing stuff for the town newsletter makes a lot of sense um you know so people read them you know I mean it's it's it's when I've been share of committees I I've always tried to do it so I think that's helpful the other thing I would add without getting into the weeds is when we do public hearings we do it by the book in terms of notification so we put it in the newspaper no one's reading notices in the paper you know so if you want to do a town announce saying hey we're doing a public hearing someone's gonna show up that's another part of the plan is to to do to utilize Town announce when when we know there's going to be a public hearing yeah and I think the only thing we can next time which is always part of the conversation no one ever agrees um whether I've been on select board school committee or you know is next door you know and so because next door is privately owned it's not a you know so it's a different thing than Town announce so we can discuss it next time I some people say well there's a lot of traffic on next door so if you want to have people see it you put it there other people myself included say you know someone else can repost to but not the committee shouldn't do it you know so but that's a conversation for the next meeting yeah yeah I was going to suggest that you know things just kind of be uh plastered on there but I suppose uh I would like to see it h you know I mean it's uh you know for my view it would be kind of like instant uh feedback um you know up or down right but just you know you get some comments and it's not uh it's not the best um way of uh you know getting public opinion well the tricky part if you do next door because I know the select board has talked about this when I was on and since then is that if a town board puts something itself on next door PE members of the board really can't comment on it on next door so it's sort of this weird dynamic because people expect an exchange and all of a sudden you're putting it out there you're not commenting so it's it's a very weird thing that's that's a good point and and and that would be true and that would be uh you know it it would be necessary to uh to make sure that uh in any parts of this would we would uh stay on the right side of open meeting law of course um so and then you know I also was kind of thinking I mean and this is a lot I don't know about this part but um you know possibly you know I don't know if there's like a Blog feature uh with the website but you know to just kind of like you know say Hey you know uh you know last night's meeting we uh we we we rejected the plans and we uh you know we appointed so and so as associate member you know we appointed so and so to fill this vacancy you know just kind of like the the high level not not not the minutes you know not having a wait to go through uh two-hour YouTube video just a quick bump B Bop of like some stuff um but that might be a little bit ambitious and dicey I think it's it's uh if you just do the facts it's straightforward it's like when you get anywhere off the facts um well no that would it would have to be just the fact yeah for sure yeah yeah and uh yeah I remember in the in the bad old days in the early 2000 several rounds of disagreement at the regional school committee um when I was on that you know there was active blogging happening with Act of opinion you know and so unfortunately the state has never kept up with social media and so you can exchange ideas on a Blog um among members because one person posts an idea and everyone else sees it so you know it it's it really is sticking to the facts it but we don't have we can take up time no the point of it was just to be strictly a recap of took place in an open meeting yeah but uh you know so basically I I have a kind of a barones document I didn't get it out for this meeting but I just wanted to put it in your ears uh and I'll get something out to you before we meet next time we've had some discussion points um now that we can think about and uh you know it's something I would like to try and do and and at the very minimum you know maybe maybe hit some of those uh um our ourtown news right and and and in a town announce for the opening of the fiscal year and for when we're having uh um public hearings which you know I I do feel badly about that I haven't been doing already but it's uh you know I think kind of having it uh you know bringing it to the board and if we can all at least get on the same page with at least part of that hopefully that be 's part and um get a little bit of momentum in that direction I think that would be good for uh for our little local democracy so um For Better or Worse all right um yeah I I think uh you know in the long run having a citizenry that is uh you know informed and engaged about local politics is is good for uh democracy that's uh that's that's my line and in chury now it's not even a citizenry it's a voting residency that that's that's uh that's a good point that's a good point that's uh yeah I didn't mean to uh no no that's fine it's it's our new thing that got passed yeah yeah well it's the inhabitants of uh of Sudbury um the public body okay um so and and moving on to that you know we're looking at fiscal uh 24 goals um you know and you I'm I'm remiss that uh that Robert is not here tonight because obviously I think one of them will probably try and get back into the tiny houses affordable houses conversation um I uh I talked to Mato uh briefly at town meeting you know he's he chairs U Community preservation um committee right um you know just kind of give him a heads up but I like to talk to him so I'm going to try and speak with him you know uh read on the select board has a lot of experience with affordable housing uh so you know that's that's one thing I would I would like to try and get some conversations going around I know uh I know Robert Raymond had kind of brought that agenda item in the past and um and I would like to ask folks to board members to just kind of reflect on this uh for our next meeting um you know is there anything that uh you would like to uh have the board work on a little bit um in some way shape or form over the next fiscal year uh so that's homework for you um does anyone have anything comes up now only one small Point next fiscal year is 25 we're in 24 oh did I say yeah okay well fisc year 25 is what we're looking at yeah oh I said it's confusing don't sweat it yeah you know and I do also want to put the agendas out sooner um I think I'm going to uh make uh the second Monday of the month a regularly scheduled meeting right and then just kind of have them up there and uh you know I don't know obviously uh sometimes things come in right right up to 48 hours or whatnot but it'll be good to kind of I want to try and get that up a little bit sooner um all right does anyone have any uh anything they want to uh us to consider for fiscal year 25 goals how about at least one inperson meeting yes yes absolutely that's a that's thank you Steve I uh been wanting to do that as well let's uh let's shoot for um August I would say July but that's just right out of the gate a little too hard we'll go for August how's that okay uh car will it be hybrid what's that will it be hybrid yes it will okay and you know if uh if if it's uh yeah we can and we can discuss that Carrie if uh yeah we we we can discuss that Carrie um further if uh if you have needs to be a remote on it but it would have to be hybrid because uh I believe that's the new requirement um I could be mistaken on that but uh that's I think the new Norm is if you are meeting in person uh having it as a remote uh or as a a hybrid uh inperson remote meeting um you know part the originally that was is a requirement of uh the number of people that could get into the space in town hall was limited due to the public health uh concerns is uh the pandemic was uh still going on and at this point I think it's more of an accessibility issue uh to make it just easily accessible for the public and not have to drive to town hall or go to a meeting which I think makes total sense um so that's uh good anyone else Michael just a quick thing on that this is jumping ahead but I think the conversation of format of meetings might come up at the all boards meeting yes and so it'll be discussion I mean the one thing that struck me and I wrote to the select board a few months ago was I've usually thought about Zoom meetings it's making accessibility greater because people who have you know mobility issues or Transportation issues or just getting out at night as hard the in although Gail Huntress says that I think it's like 98% of town has access to you know our internet for those people who can't access the internet if we just do all online it actually is exclusionary so it's it's like it goes it cuts both ways it's an interesting conversation to have so hopefully I I won't be there on the 11th but hopefully that's a conversation you guys have thank you um well you know just I guess that would be just a note there's a uh to skip ahead to that all board meeting on June 11th so uh I don't know if I did I forward that email to the group all right well I I'll uh you did I got I mean I don't know if you did or it just came to us naturally anyways but I'm aware of it okay um so that's that's uh that's open um I don't know if I'll be able to go to it at the moment uh but you know just kind of heads up on that uh it'll be great if anyone can go I encourage it um and if there's any additional Communications I'll uh I'll make sure I forward those along to everyone I think the email says that they need someone from each board to be there yeah they want someone they want at least one person from each board but more are welome so should one of us volunteer do you want to volunteer uh that's tough timing for me with grades do i' prefer not to but okay I probably am open then Lacrosse ends this week so that's good okay uh anyone El interested in going off the top of your head the 11th um you 6 o' six o'clock six o'cl I might be able to go I'm not I'm not certain at this point but I have it on my calendar okay you know we we um on board meeting well you know uh we have our a meeting uh yeah I don't have the time on so uh yeah I don't think I don't know if we're going to uh that right now we've got a few people with th that's good we can lo we can try and lock that down over email between now and then um Michael you got some uh State Perman stuff you want to talk about yeah just I think quasi briefly um so I sent out something via email but I just wanted to back it up and talk and open meeting about it so all all of I are Delight conversations about subdivision plans earlier I would say could be moot in the near future um and so the the high level takeaway is um this state is basically moving to consolidating permitting decisions around all clean energy SL electric decarbonization projects in the state um which is a huge shift and you know my personal opinion really problematic but um the two moving Parts there there is the governor had a commission on energy sighting and permitting that came out with its recommendations end of March I think it was March 29th um and I did a an analysis of that to understand and you know there are some good things there are some bad things some things that need to be um resolved but um in some regards that's less important because it's just a commission to the governor um the thing that's more alarming but in the same direction is what I did send you guys which is h450 which is the climate bill so it's an Omnibus climate Bill and what that means is there's all these different climate related bills that were in the house and in the Senate um and they get bundled you know almost all of them come through the joint committee on telecommunications utilities and energy or Tue they get bundled together and I think it was a couple weeks ago uh Senate President saidwe are going to have a climate bill by the end of the legislative session which is July 31st um there isn't a Senate bill yet but the house one is out the thing that's really concerning um and in the thing I sent you you can see it I know it's very dense but I spent a few weeks reading it looking at it I talked to the aid to the the representative who's the chair of Tue um but basic basically they Define electric decarbonization projects to be everything so it's solar it's batteries it's Hydro it's winds it's transmission and it's everything else that helps further the decarbonization goals of the Commonwealth so there's nothing not included and unlike the governor's commission there's no size parameter so it could be a little teeny weeny thing it could be a huge thing everything goes to this one State office to consolidate um which on a practical level was crazy and also I think on a uh I don't know a philosophical or ideological policy approach it makes so sense because basically strips out Municipal role and includes not just the planning board but the zba the concom and the Board of Health so any local permitting that would happen gets taken away from the municipalities and is decided uh at the state level you know one of aside from just sort of the objection that we you know we as a municipality get put into an advisory role there's there's a part of that in there that is just practically makes no sense to me so you know there's 351 municipalities in Massachusetts if they're all sending projects to this one office constructive approval happens after 12 months so there's no way this office is going to be able to turn around projects that are coming at it of all sizes um and so what'll end up happening is projects are going to come into the hopper not get addressed and come out and the thing about constructive approval is that it they get approved automatically as proposed so there's no conditions there's no negotiations there's no tweaking to make it better so it goes in it comes out whatever um so that's sort of the dynamic you know I and you know I've talked to Donna her readers that it's the same kind of thing that she's seeing you know that there's this big push and you know yes we're in a climate emergency and we have to expedite but they're looking at it as this is the solution is to sort of take away decision making for municipalities and make it be a centralized um process um I mean I could have a longer conversation but what I I think but the short version is there's potent there's a possibility for partnership where we have a role because we know the locals and we know um you know what shb looks like I mean talking to the aid of the representative he doesn't know where Sho spray is there a high lik clear that the people in the office making the decisions not gonna know where Sho spray is yet they'll be making decisions so it's mostly a heads up um I mean just as a personal thing I've been doing advocacy because I think it's just a really bad idea and there's got to be some kind of thing in between but I wanted to make you know everyone on the board aware because there's there as I was told there will be a climate bill it's going to happen um and what it looks like um and what's in it is up for discussion but I will say the two chairs the Senate chair of two we basically thinks municipalities are nimas by definition um and have nothing really constructive to contribute and that the house a little bit less so but it's hugely concerning um so come August we might be dealing with a very different playing field um so it's most I wanted to just let everybody know because this is huge um I don't know how much there is for us to do I mean well Michael it it's huge and it's going to impact disproportionately western Mass once again yes because it's going to be Eastern Centric thinking that's going to affect the western part of this middle and western part of the state but it doesn't it sounds like that writing is on the wall there is there anything we can anybody can do about it well I think you know it's it's organizing I mean I think you know if we wanted to the planning board could write I was thinking about this yesterday you know so like you know I talked to Aaron Saunders at town meeting he agrees that the momentum is in this direction he's trying to mitigate the damage as best he can but he doesn't think he can reverse it just make it a little bit better but he gets it um I think Joe Comerford is working to help you know the language as well so I think it's really sort of advocating in Boston with Tue um I actually was thinking going I want to actually Focus my stuff on the speaker of the house and the Senate President because that's really where the power is um so I think if a board if we wanted to do something we could you know write a letter of concern I didn't I didn't want to be presumptuous so I didn't prepare anything in that regard um today was really sort of heads up but just to give you a sense you know I was on whmp last week talking about this I'm working on a letter to the editor I'm G to set to The Gazette to the reporter um and then there's people other you know there's folks across the state who are dealing with it but um it's it's sort of like municipalities needing to raise their hand and say yes we actually have a role in this um I don't unless the legislature recognizes that I mean we really get seen as as you know naysayers in the process I mean I'll give you two examples then I'll shut up so they the this the governor's commission had public comment you could write things in but they also had a session and there were a couple of people from the cape who said you know all you're looking at is development by private developers you know and if you actually work with the municipalities and you're wor and you're interested in quick employment if you gave municipalities all 351 of money to put solar on their Town Halls schools dpws Highway um put money on canopies for parking lots you would get deployment across the state you know and they're publicly owned you know shutesbury would do it in a second if we had money for it we've been trying to through eak um you know like there's other ways to think about this where it doesn't disempower municipalities um so but yeah I mean my current thinking Steve it it feels I looked it up yesterday construction on the quaven started 1926 so almost a hundred years later it's the same kind of thing and that was to feed water for Boston yeah no you took the words right out of my mouth I thought I thought oh it's quabbing all over again you know it's exactly right um well if you want to take a f if everyone else agrees and I would be happy to work on that letter with you and I don't know if the planning board if it can get more weight by having other planning boards and other towns sign on to it or can we get can we get a bigger ball rolling than just our little planning you know Shy's planning board I you know I I might I haven't talked to Jeff Lacy about it um you know because he's he's tapped in the MMA Mass municial Association they're surprisingly not worried it seems I I don't understand um they were they had a they had a representative on the on the governor's commission interestingly the only Municipal perspective was Acton uh Acton so no one from Western Mass was on the governor's commission that makes sense I'm sorry go ahead do you think there's been a bunch of lobbying that's led to this I mean like do you think even with the MMA oh I I I am sure this I mean all the developers want you know to be able to go where they want um and so yeah I think so how many people are part of the commission that's gonna approve or not approve these permits you know it's well it's it's it oh it's so it's it's a state office it hasn't currently there's the efsb which is the energy facility sighting board and they deal with projects that I think are 100 megawatts and bigger so the battery project in Wendell is the developer I don't know if they increased the size but they made it such that if it goes to efsb you can bypass local ordinances that's exactly what happened to Wendell is they passed um something about batteries and then they the project is big enough so my read is that either it's going to be the current efsb that gets empowered to all do all the stuff up and maybe they add staff or whatever um or they create something similar um that has the same function um you know there's there's some there's some good things in there like if they didn't just if they weren't taking away Municipal um decision-making you know there is a nod to Environmental Protection and there is a nod to Public Health protection the the other interesting eastern Mass thing just while I'm on my soap box is to the politicians credit they heard they got enough push back about environmental justice communities so you know there's some language about protecting and doing like environmental impact if it's in a certain distance from an EJ Community but there's no reference to rural so you know you could plop something down that endangers the environment or the public health in a rural community it doesn't trigger the same thing as you know the context that it would have for an EJ community so just like there's blinders in terms of how they're responding and I mean what would be really nice is if they didn't race to judgment they actually had real discussion but that's I'll get off my Soap Box Nathan thank you for the time I was actually just going to note that uh no part of shb is considered meeting any other criteria for being an environmental justice Community which is uh there's an income criteria a language criteria and a um I believe a minority criteria ethnic minority criteria so um we don't check any of those boxes here right if I could uh say a few words so one is that um I talked with someone who's very involved with Wendell and they wanted me to come in and talk to them I respectfully declined but I would imagine that Wendell is very interested and uh would be very interested in this a combined letter certainly because they're they're facing uh a huge issues with Solar Development also Michael if I can add to I I I have the uh articles that you uh not articles the information that you wrote I went through them a few times and you also um what Michael's work is um if you didn't have a chance to look at it's just incredible and uh and um very very well done I wanted to add too to um uh that municipalities are given like an advisory role uh role rather than they you know they can they can advise but they can't really determine what happens so that's another thing that's uh was really significant in the language it basically um eliminates all control that munic just about all control that municipalities have regarding solar or lithium ion battery regulation you know so that's a huge thing it's these laws are are tremendously damaging to um I think they would be tremendously damaging to a lot of towns and especially in R Massachusetts and that's where they make the most money because the land is cheap um so they take huge amounts of land and they can excuse me uh H do huge solar projects which are cheap I mean if you try to buy land in you know in Newton you can't but in sherbury the land is cheap and um and I'm sure there's been a lot of lobbying a lot of um attorneys have gone through the these laws and added um and and made it difficult in my judgment for um municipalities such as us to have any say whatsoever in terms of regulating solar um solar projects or lithium battery ions ion storage projects so it's really written to uh help large land owners um um make money in my judgment also happen in other states so I think it is it's consistent what I was going to ask like how this looks like Nation Nationwide and I'm wondering if there's any lawsuits either if any of the municipalities are suing or if there have been any lawsuits like even back in the times of the Quin did anybody Sue to try and make it stop I I was reading Wikipedia last night about the quaven you know and I think there was a lot of local objection especially by the four towns that got flooded um but those you know you don't write the laws wres the laws sort of makes it's those got the power there it's in my judgment is money and Lobby is driven these laws and um they're going to be um in my judgment it looks like they're going to be devastating for um towns such as us well I'd be happy to have a a letter from the planning board stating our our position on this well I'm happy to draft one um thank you and as I said Michael I I'd be happy to do what we've done in the past cool um I can find the um the people uh that would be interested in um joining in Wendell certainly I have access to that uh that whole population not the whole population but I have access to the the movers shakers in Wendell yeah and I've been in touch with Molly who's their planning board chair over the past so if we do something I could also send it out to them I I forget her last name maybe maybe we can if we can if we knew know people on other planning boards in other towns we can get the ball rolling through a network know how best to do that but if we keep that in the front of our minds when we talk with other towns yeah well Judy Eisman who's the planning board chair for pelum has been part of these conversations as well um so yeah it's it's it's hard not to get it pessimistic because I think we need to do what we need to do to sort of have our voices heard but I think we're already put in the boxes sort of you know it's it if someone sees you as a nimia it's hard to sort of get them to think that you actually have you're actually constructively engaging or trying you know with with authenticity um can I I'd also like to add something else I mean I don't know if they fully realize that indeed I mean there are eight towns that border the Quin which is their water you know it's one of the largest unfiltered um water supplies in the country supporting three million people in Boston I mean New York is larger their unfiltered water supply I think is 9 million but this um Boston could not exist without uh Quin really and um and all we're trying to do is to protect um one of the eight one of the eight Towns at borders that were trying to protect the water that feeds Boston you know this um lithium battery storage it leaks you know Cobalt ions and lithium ions and chromium ions and these are all toxic to uh water life and um I don't think they realize the significance of um not allowing municipal ities that know the tributaries that go into the Quin uh not allowing us the um any say in terms of protecting the quaven reservoir which is their life Supply really in Boston so it's um they're being um influenced heavily influenced by the money that comes in through in my judgment money comes in through um you know lobbyists and um and lobbyists aren't interested in um in you know the future events that could happen and would pollute the water of um of Boston and mun the municipalities surrounding Boston anyway I'll be quiet now well as a tangible I'm sorry go ahead Ashley just really quick not that any of us could probably do this but great opportunity for some investigative journalism you know Boston magazine obviously The Gazette if any of you have journalist in your life could plant a seed Well I this weekend I did send the thing I sent you guys to the editor-in chief of The Gazette so you know maybe they'll take notice um I think tangibly it sounds like if people are okay with it I'll take a stab at it and then have some you know I'll send it out um and get feedback I know Steve is said he would as well and then we can just we can discuss it and you know approve whatever version if we want to on at June 10th which is you know it's not quite the end of the legislative session so I think you know it could have some impact and we can share it out to other planning boards as I think Steve had suggested if that makes sense but I'm happy to write a draft and share it out between now and our next meeting well thank you for doing that Michael do we need to make a formal motion for Michael to do this Nathan you can do whatever you need to do make motion you're you're recusing yourself I'm sorry well I'm not no I mean you know I'm um I'm not going to participate in the discuss discussion but you know if you want to figure out a way to move forward whether it's uh you know having Michael draft something or you know whatever I mean you know you know call a meeting in the next couple weeks if you want you know uh well I'll make a motion to um that the planning board um in let Michael draft an initial letter in response to this uh legislative issue on behalf of the planning board right yeah yes on behalf of the planning board thank you I second it all right now we got have any any discussion on this um I guess I would I would clarify Michael to uh draft a letter on behalf of the planning board is there going to be is this to be brought back to a subsequent meeting or to be uh okay um all right then I'll call the rooll uh hicraft hi di hi wrestler hi Weston hi and on this one I will abstain Michael if you want to send that to me I'd be happy to um to go over it and contribute whatever I can to it yeah I'll do what I you know have done in the past I'll send it out to everybody and then just reply to me separately so we don't get in the way of oml thank you thank you all for the time I appreciate it so wait just to clarify if I reply to you alone and don't reply to everybody then it's not a violation of open meeting law yeah because I'm I'm I write it and I'm sending it out to you guys and then if so there's not really deliberation yeah I'm just going to it and then we'll discuss at the next open meeting off so we won have decided yeah yeah that's a good thing to kind of uh clarify right A lot of the time you know and in this case Michael is uh you know yeah he's writing it right uh oftentimes it'll be the chair right you know the chair might send something out or you know what really any member of the board or uh yeah you know Communications funnel through a single person that is either the chair or someone design ated for something or someone who's leading a particular initiative and that's uh one way we can get things done so that's a good practice um to be able to you know have some kind of organization um that doesn't violate open meeting line doesn't uh result in a quorum going between a communication uh going among a quorum of of the board of the public right if I can add something that actually Michael taught me to Ashley um we can do that because we have seven members on the board so two people are not a quorum however the select board cannot do that because two people would be a quorum on the select board so we have the ability to talk between us um they do not um because I think it would violate open meeting law that's my understanding that Michael what Michael said to me I don't know if that's correct well it's there's correct there's two parts to it so in terms of actually discussing you know so actually three of us could talk because still not a quum um you know I what often times people who knew the boards get told you can't talk to each other which is not true you know so it's under a quorum one can talk about stuff this is a a slightly different in the sense that you know because of open meeting law we're not as efficient as we otherwise would in real life you know so you can't use Google Docs for example you can't use all these collaborative tools that otherwise people would do to move a project forward so if a if a board or a committee designates one person to be the lead there the important part is one person can't be a subcommittee so subcommittees also have to or work groups also have to comply with open meeting law so lots of people have done this wrong in the past I know I've been part of it as well but um one person by definition so like when we do policies the idea would you know if I take the lead on a policy for example I write it I can send it out to you all you can comment and then the next time we meet I'll have process those comments and bring it forth and discuss it an open meeting so the fact that we're discussing it an open meeting it's a way of sort of doing some processing of information and sharing information but only through that person who gets designated then you bring it back and have a public conversation and agree to change or adopt or whatever it's going to be so it's one of the rare ways we can actually because I mean you can't write anything as a group in an open meeting we it take the whole meeting it's sort of so this is probably the only way to do it remember another important thing about open meeting law is is you know it's uh what is your intent right so if uh if you're doing things where you know when you think of it how how you might look at it if you were one of the attorneys in the uh in the uh Attorney General's office right um um or the uh was it the state ethics board I think is it the state ethics board that does this one it's attorney general attorney G okay yeah yeah that's what I thought State ethics board is a conflict conflict of interest yeah yeah um but anyway you know if you think of it how how they might approach it and if you know and if you're doing that and and what you're doing seems like you're intentionally trying to circumvent open meeting law right then uh that's going to be problematic right but if you're like Michael said trying to process information um so that you can have a productive session and open a productive meeting and Open Session that's okay all right um you know last uh thing we have is just that uh review the town meeting I'm going to do this real quick we had two zoning amendments they both passed with flying colors that was the uh lighting bylaw in our um omnius uh zoning amendment that use stable special permit conditions and home rule for associate members and uh that's that I'm going to leave it at that we have we also had the the ESS uh General bylaw which was actually presented uh by Michael on behalf of the select board but did come through the playing board also passed uh with flying colors um so I'm going to leave that at that and uh we are 853 um so this did go a little longer than I hope but it is short of the 2hour which I like I I really don't want our meetings to be going over two hours so U you know we uh we won't hold it against Steve if he has a comment on a motion to adjourn anyone a motion to adjourn okay do we have a second second all right discussion I'll call the roll he's uh he's upstanding Weston hi hi okay P craft hi Thea hi Steve last chance do you want to vote to adjourn all all right and I'm thank you everyone Nathan thank you for all of your wonderful work Michael thank you incredible um we appreciate all of your efforts absolutely next meeting is going to be uh 6 10 Monday 7 o'clock sounds good Mark your C good night all soon good night good night