Mattel. >> Hello. >> I think that uh somehow the wrong bad link got in the agenda. >> Uh oh, what link did you what linker is in the agenda? >> I copied it from a different agenda,
planning board agenda. But maybe it was uh maybe I accidentally copied one where we joined the select board or something. I don't know. >> I just updated but Michael got in. I don't know. >> It it should be it should be the same
one that's been uh I mean I haven't changed the set meetings in the Zoom account news clerk account. So the one that ends in 323 is always the planning board. >> No, I understood. I uh you know that's why I copied it from a
prior meeting. >> The updated one worked. >> Okay. Yeah, that's not good. I'm going to go on mute so I can keep crunching. >> Okay. So I will note that in the in the past
when there have been issues with um uh Zoom links for not for the planning board but for other committees um we have been told that because it's not part of the agenda there isn't a 48 hour notice issue with open meeting law. Um, but I, you know, obviously anybody who's
trying to get in, if they're using the previous one, it's going to have trouble unless they go back to the page now. >> Yeah. No, I mean, I updated it and I just emailed everyone, but obviously it's uh
it's not ideal to uh have that. It's uh you know, but it's what I'm going to do is uh I've set up a recurring meeting, a regularly scheduled meeting rather, and
I'll put I'll make I'll you know put the Zoom info on that. >> When you say a recurring meeting, do you mean in in Zoom or in um because >> in my town government? In my town government website. >> Yeah. Okay. Yep. Looks like folks are joining now.
>> Yeah. We should make this a really long meeting because it's Ashley's last one before she cares about time. >> I'm coming I'm coming off a week of camping right now. I like just had my first good shower in
six days. It's pretty awesome. >> Enough on the agenda. >> Sorry. >> Ashley, where were you? >> Um, not far. Mohawk Trail State Forest. >> Cool.
>> It was really good. Yeah. With some friends. >> I've never stayed there. >> It's really lovely. Um, you if you book three months in advance, you can get right on the river and I was there with some friends and Phineas popped in a little bit as well. It was good. Nice to
be by the river. >> The Cold River. >> The Cold River. Yeah, it was not that cold. It definitely We camped there. I've camped there like every year with uh this group and it was really warm this year. I was laying in it like every day.
That's great. >> Yeah, I just went a few weeks a month ago now and uh >> yeah, it was great. >> You can't >> Yeah, I was talking about I believe at the opening of last meeting. >> Um so it's uh
>> Yeah, it's been good. Um >> good. Yep. Almost over summer. >> I know. I know. >> I bet you're happy. Are you happy? Does does that mean that you get more freedom because your kids Well, your youngest one isn't at school yet, right?
>> Yeah, but they're they'll be in preschool. So, yeah. I mean, it'll be good. Um you having the additional routine is uh a good thing. >> All right. It's 7:05 and we've got a quorum. So, I'm going to call this um
meeting of the Shbury Planning Board to order for August 11th, 2025. I'll note that the meeting is being recorded and I'll move uh on to our well I'll just note we have uh President
Michael de Kierra myself Nathan Murphy Ashley Pipra Steve Brassler Keith Hasty and our ladies Kirk Melo um absent would be Deacon Bonner Jeff
and uh our associate now see. All right. Um, would anyone like to make public comment? Hearing and seeing none. Next item on the agenda is landowner education and guidance. Do we
have anything for that hearing? And seeing none, move right along here. We have on the agenda review and approve minutes for 714 2025, 69 2025, 513 2024, and 48
2024. Do uh do we have a uh motion to >> Yeah. I'll move to approve the minutes of July 14, 2025.
Do I hear a second? >> Second. >> All right, Michael Daycare has moved as seconded. I will also note that uh Jeff Weston has uh joined the meeting. Welcome, Jeff.
>> Thanks. I had a hard time logging in. Thanks. >> Yeah, that's my fault. I uh there was a a bad link in there somehow and uh we fixed it. But you know that's uh make sure that doesn't happen again. Now uh right now Jeff just to catch you up we
are uh we Michael has moved and uh Keith has seconded that we approve the draft minutes from 7:14 2025 and uh so we'll take a look at those. Um
any uh discussion? I know I had a few items on this one. >> I got one thing. >> Okay. Um, I don't know if it matters or not, but uh, on page nine,
um, we were talking about what kinds of things we would suggest to be on the state bylaws that the, uh, commission, I can't remember the person's name who was here with us, was inquiring about. And
um I said some things. I said, you know, we would like it if uh they weren't greater than 15 acres and if uh there was the 4 to one and all of that. And then it says that I said that they should not be located on
sloped land. And maybe I said that and if I did, that's fine. But I that's not like my spirit isn't that it's more I don't remember the exact specifications like what percent slope
we have said you can't build on in our bylaws and maybe I should have said that but I don't know it's interesting because I said that um and I don't know in when we discuss these minutes can we go back and say but that's not what I
meant. What I meant was or do we just leave it? >> It sort of depends. >> Yeah, >> I mean I think >> this up is not a big deal and say it's fine, but I I don't think that they should never be located on slope land.
Just I like our specifications. Matteo, do you want to chime in? Do you have a sense? Because you wrote them up, right? Um second, let me look up here. Writing these minutes based off of the recording. So, I don't know.
Um, you know, if you want to table these to another meeting so Ashley can review the recording and decide or you know, >> here's what I would suggest. Whatever whatever revision the the board wants to make, I'll make the revision I make to the >> Here's what I would suggest unless uh we
have objection. But I think you could um add in a little uh like in parenthesis after that sentence uh you know considered in the context of uh existing um
parameters for limits on the slope of land. 4:1 land uh and uh yeah 4:1 land preservation and slope land uh you know are taken in the
context of existing provisions and the zoning by if that if if everyone's okay with that that kind of gives a little bit of leeway to say you know there something already there she's not saying, you know, it's not like a undefined slope. You can reference the Bible, right?
>> That's what I was trying to say. >> Sorry, Shane that too. That solar sites only be located on slope land under existing provisions in the existing bylaw. I would say no. I would say after the sentence, you know, put in parentheses, you know, the, you know,
the comments and the, you know, preceding sentence pertaining to a 4:1 land preservation ratio and slope land are in the context of existing provisions of the
of the solar uh bylaw. And you can reference the section if you want, but yeah. That just says that, you know, it's kind of like, you know, Yeah. to Yeah.
>> It's almost like uh putting in brackets, right? You know, to fill in the blanks of a quote if something's left out. Brackets aren't part of the quote, but it helps to add context. Okay. Um any any other uh changes from
anyone else? Um I've got a couple. So I'm going to say uh uh one I know uh landowner I put on the uh you know automatic agenda is two words. That's another thing I should fix, right? Landowner is one word. So if
we could fix that, that would be good. Um the other thing another one is uh a lot of these motions uh had extensions and in the minutes it says motion approved
unanimously with one abstension but and people can correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it's considered unanimous passing unanimously if there's an abstension. >> So this is this is something that I I have actually researched in the context of the CPC and that under Robert's rules
of orders it is unanimous if there is an abstension because the the qualification of unanimous refers to the number of people who are voting abstension is not voting for or against. It is not voting. So uni unanimity refers to those who are present and voting casting a vote and
abstension is not a vote. It's a refusal to vote. That That's why I tried to word it the way I did. I understand you're concerned about it though because it does create it creates >> No, that's everybody agreed. >> You're throwing the book at me, Matteo. Sorry. >> This came up with the CDC a couple years
ago. That's the only reason I know. >> You know, I recently >> What's that? >> I just love it. It's one of these wonky things. It's just sort of fun. >> Oh, no. That's that's >> frustrated me on the CBC because it did create the impression it it and I
understand completely what you're saying, but I wanted to try to word it in a way that was clear with >> Well, no, you know, that's uh that's that's why I, you know, I um I know enough to kind of preface it to say, you know, please correct me if I'm wrong. Uh so it's you learn something
new every day. That's good. I recently did uh you know, receive a copy of Robert's Rules of Order. Uh I have yet to read it. It's very exciting. It's really uh it's quite the read. >> I I believe it. I can't wait to just,
you know, dig in. Uh okay, so I guess we can skip that one. Um thank you, Matteo, for having that uh that response ready uh to prevent us from uh you know, doing the wrong thing there.
Okay. So, um, page seven of nine on the in the second paragraph, I would just like to change would to could and we can further tweak it. So the
paragraph starts, Murphy notes that under light industry uh data center would or could be allowed by special permit and roadside residential and forest conservation zones but not in the
town center or lake zones. The board can also regulate using the conditions blah blah blah. Right. So um now obviously light industrial use is allowed in
roadside residential and uh forest conservation right that's not a would or could thing but the you know I wanted it to say could instead of wood because you know we haven't really determined whether or not under our current bylaw data center
would even be allowed or meets the definition given for light industrial use, right? So it's like in the in the actual reporting I say in theory uh this would be you know allowed under light industry, right? So I just want to
make it you know instead of wood that's uh all right. I think that's it. you know, there was some other uh minor grammatical things, but I think uh you know, I didn't get it in and we don't want to go through all
those now. I think it's nothing that we can't uh live with. So, um unless anyone else have has anything else to call the role and Matt, you're good with that change? >> Yep. I just made those changes now.
>> Excellent. Thank you. Okay. Um I'll call the roll. Uh Weston. Hi. Hasty. >> Hi. >> Um, Presler, >> that looks like an I.
Okay. Um, Kyraoft. >> I you and Decara. >> I >> and I'll uh I'm an I. So, the uh passes unanimously.
Okay. Next is uh >> I'll move to approve the minutes of June 9th, 2025. >> All right. >> Do I hear a second? >> Second. >> Take care of moves. Weston seconds
approve the minutes of June 9th, 2025. Any discussion? Hearing none, I'll uh call the rollon. >> Hi, Hasty. >> Hi, Preler. >> Hi. Hi.
>> Croft. I >> accept so that you know the board uh unanimously approve unanimous unanimously approves the minutes from June 9th, 2025. >> I'll move to approve the minutes of May
13, 2024. >> All right. I hear a second. >> Second. >> Okay. Daycare moves hasty seconds to approve the minutes from May 13, 2024. Any discussion?
Okay. Um hearing and seeing none, I'll call the role. >> Weston. >> Hi. >> Hasty. >> Hi. Wrestler. >> Hi, >> Tyraftoft. >> Hi, >> Dave. Cara,
>> hi. >> And I'm an I. So, the motion passes, carries unanimously to approve the minutes from May 13, 2024. >> Move to approve the minutes of April 8th, 2024. >> Second.
>> Okay. Thank move. Hasty seconds to approve the minutes from April 8, 2024. Any discussion? Seeing none, I'll call the roll. Weston >> I. >> Hasty.
>> Abstain. >> Wrestler. >> Hi. >> Hi. Crops >> I >> carara >> I >> and uh I'll also abstain. So motion carries with four votes in the
affirmative and two abstensions. I'll say it carries unanimously >> and that concludes our agenda item for approving minutes. Um, yeah, the board approved uh
April 8th, 2024. There >> are we caught up now? >> No, but I was just going to say that um draft minutes for approval, we've got there are three left in there.
I did um submit the minutes from July 8th, 2024 that we approved and I just had buried in my documents. I finally, you know, I'm I'm up to speed here. I have a, you know, a computer that I can use that
doesn't take an hour just to open Word. So, I can actually get stuff done now. It's good. It's going to be huge. Um, I uh I do still have two sets of minutes that are from 2023, I believe. I have to go
and look at the video. I think I was I was running it in Car's absence. I think Carrie had uh submitted drafts, but then has had left at the time. And so there were some revisions and whether
or not I actually made them or not at the time. And then uh so anyway, I've got two two additional sets that I can uh dig up and find. Um and then that leaves just the three that Matteo's got on here. There's going to be a bunch of other um meetings that do
not have minutes. Um the B, you know, the majority of those will be uh meetings that were called probably exclusively for uh purposes of going into executive session.
And I think, you know, we can probably uh ask, you know, give Matteo the list and ask him to just kind of uh get the open session item of, you know, who was in attendance and the roll call for
entering into executive session uh and get all that on the books. That'll be kind of quick and we can hopefully uh you know, blast through those too. But for now, we'll consider the remaining three minutes. um from 2024 which will be January,
February, and March 2024 to be on our next agenda and then we'll pretty much be caught up, right? So, Matt, it's good to have you, sir. It is good to have you.
Next item is uh discuss request from the broadband MLP board. Has anyone uh reviewed that request? >> I checked it out.
Seems like some math is required. >> Yeah. Well, you know, um, did anyone else uh get a chance to look at it or >> Yeah, I looked at it. Um,
>> yeah, it seems pretty straightforward for somebody. Doesn't the tax assessor have a good GIS that has um they could put together a table of lots that are available like buildable roadside lots
that have houses and don't have houses. >> I would imagine they would be able to uh probably do a little bit more than we could. >> Yeah. And then uh I think it would be pretty easy to call the or maybe we have it in in the town files of the number of building permits that get filed each
year to build you know what's the trend been in new houses you know over the last five years say >> that's up that's up at Furcog >> and um I know at least at some point I
had access to look at that um which had been I think arranged via the town administ I don't know. Does anyone else have access to look in the uh uh permits issued for their town? >> I think the one the one thing in
addition to what everyone else said, Gail had asked about um lots that had high, medium, and low-end potentials, you know. So, I'm assuming that medium >> and low
Yeah. So, you know, part of the reason we ended up having town owned mini fiber, besides the fact that we wanted fiber, is we were committed to 100% coverage for anyone in town. And so, if you're right on the road, I would assume
that it's sort of um high potential, you know, that someone there's a higher potential someone might move in and therefore it's an easy easier connect um to to end run the the fiber. But, you know, if you're up a dirt road, it's
probably I don't know if I'm assuming it's lower potential in the sense that someone's going to build a house that's on a lot, but it's, you know, way back. Um, that's my I haven't talked to her. That's my interpretation of what she meant when she said um
she says, "I'm I'm saying this would mean looking at available frontage and acreage in each of our service areas at which they're poor and coming up with the high, medium, and low-end potentials." So, that's how I interpreted it. But, >> oh yeah, she's just talking about the uh
you know, as far as an estimate of a rate of growth for a given sector, you know, what's the you know, high, medium, and low estimate. Oh, so like okay. So like there might be three in like versus a high of 10 >> kind of thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Low would be three, medium
might be, you know, five and high might be 10. >> Got it. Okay. I misunderstood. >> That's going to be some pure conjecture, I think, on our part. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, all right. So, I I I got on the phone with Gabby and talked to her for a few minutes. I indicated
more or less what we just said, right? you can look at, you know, you can I did suggest that she reach out to the assessor's office and see if they can um provide some of that data that would be used to
derive a a baseline calculation of available buildable lots. looking at existing lots that are undeveloped and determining how many legal lots could be,
you know, result from those lots. Look at developed lots and see, you know, are there any of those lots that have additional frontage that could be sold off. And then I got to explain we also have
this new uh you know affordable uh housing act where now anyone can add an ADU which would uh you know result in a a new uh separate broadband account in most cases. Uh Gail
said that their regul you know their uh their rule is that it has to be separate but that obviously some people you know don't follow the rule right. So, like if you have an existing apartment, when broadband came to town, you might, you know, maybe it's it's actually your
in-laws in the in-law apartment and you just give them your Wi-Fi password and you don't get set up with a whole second um uh account, right? But and the best and I don't think our bylaw that we put in calls out uh internet
access specifically, does it? Do you know? It's more like utilities broadly and specifically electricity but I don't know about uh internet. >> No we we didn't talk about internet at all
>> which or phone lines. I mean >> the phone line >> there's another variable to consider you know when you think about open space design and flexible frontage. >> Oh I I talked about that too, Steve. Um, but I appreciate your,
>> you know, thinking. Um, but yeah, you know, I I also indicated, yeah, your open space design and even possibly subdivisions. Right. >> Right. >> So, yeah, there's a huge, uh, amount of variability as to what the possibilities are. You know, whe, you know, a lot of
that stuff is uh, much less likely to happen, right? you know, we're probably not going to get a big subdivision in Shootsbury, but we don't, you know, there's a lot that could happen, right, that we, you know, if there was uh some kind of massive
deflation event that caused the housing materials to all of a sudden be ex extremely cheap, that could change things, you know. I I don't expect that to happen. Um I'm I'm trying to come out
with come up with a scenario that uh but you know so to the to the point um you know I I basically said you know try the assessor see what you can do there um and also look at you know the trend
you know you can look at that and uh I said if we have anything anyone on the board has anything additional to suggest that I will get back to her with which I think you know we have it covered. I can maybe summarize it in writing and and and send her a
message back and uh copy everyone basically saying what we said that you have you know your avail you know current available lots potential lots through ANR uh a potential ADUS potential
uh what's the one article five open space design and then uh potential subdivisions So there's all those variabilities I can go into and yeah and the you know protected use. Um, okay.
>> And I just it's worth I don't have the facts for this, but I think in terms of external um pressures, you know, my sense at least in Western Masses, you know, inflow was post 911 and during the pandemic, you know, so if you had an episodic thing like that, you wouldn't
see it immediately, but that's where the pressures come from externally. So, you know, but no one can predict that, >> right? Yeah, that's that's interesting. I I was surprised to hear that, you know, like, you know, I think in her
email she she kind of claims that uh the rate of development had really been higher than expected. And I mean, I know there's a few, you know, houses that have gone up. You know, there was like the Habitat for Humanity House on West Palm. And, you know, there's a couple lots right by me here on West Palm that
are, you know, where they've got, you know, two new houses right there on the uh Weaver Estate, I believe. But it didn't seem like anything more than normal. But I haven't been here that long. Um,
>> honestly, the the best I think they can come up with is a range that has no more accuracy than about a 50% window of error. >> Yeah. >> Which is pretty large. >> Yeah. I think they'll uh
yeah they're I have it's kind of like out of our hands right to you know whatent what's the cost and you know I mean obviously you want to have >> it's better to have it and not need it to than to need it and not have it right we don't want to have new houses going up in Shbury and not have available
broadband connections right but that's uh that's up for them we wish them best of luck and we'll support them if uh there's anything else we can do Okay. Um there's not there's not much this board does with in respect to that kind of
work. Next on our agenda is uh to discuss town and house communication to include appeal for associate member updates community on PB business. Now I uh I have made a little bit of an outline here for
what I would put in that communication. I haven't drafted a whole communication yet. Um so what I would like to include is to uh recall our achievements of uh the prior year which is you know the ADU bylaw you know
cleaning up uh the bylaw by removing the rate of development and uh you know calling out tiny houses which is uh you know it's that um yeah and you know just making sure that it's uh that there's awareness that
you know tiny houses can be built in town al and for uh fiscal year 2026 initiatives uh we're going to be reviewing possible amendments for uh data centers um and I would speak to
there's concerns over you know energy use water use noise diesel generation land use um etc. And also the possibility for uh revenue in town and uh I would also include looking
forward you know the possibility for the board to revisit affordable housing possibly looking at um allowing manufactured housing. um oh note my election as chair for a third
term and then um segue into an appeal for volunteers both uh broadly um in town trying to you know speak to uh the need for the next generation to step up to the plate and
also uh specifically call out or open seat for an associate member. So, does anyone have any uh any part of that they're particularly interested in or Michael? >> Yeah. Um, well, I definitely think communicating about associate member
makes sense and I think talking about what we did in 2025 makes sense. I've got I guess I'm concerned about talking about raising expectations about what we're going to talk about since we haven't fully processed it. And
it's, you know, we could through our conversations in the next couple of months decide, oh, we're not going to do X, Y, and Z, but we set expectations that we might be. So, I'm sort of I mean I I think you know you brought up a few months ago
that you wanted to sort of communicate out to people what we were doing. Um I think what I would do is start use as the starting point the you know the annual report that we had to put in. Um because it captures some of that information you know and it's already we
voted on and approved it. Um, and maybe just talk more generally about what the planning board does because I think one of the challenges for most committees is people don't know what the committees do. You know, they know the name this, you know, FINCOM, they do the budget, select board does like everything. Um,
but aside from that, I don't think people really get it. Um, so I I'm I'm a little concerned that we would, you know, in some regards it might get people to pay attention and come to meetings, but they also might come in attentions
thinking we're on the verge of deciding something and we even have we haven't even talked it through yet. So that that's my my hesitancy, I guess. But no, I'd be interested to hear what other people think. Does anyone else have a response to
that? >> What a quiet bunch. >> I think Thank you. I think like the way it's worded is important, you know, and but people often get confused or just see what they want
to see and don't catch everything. So, I don't know if we could say something along I I think the idea of explaining what the planning board does is a very good starting point. And then I'm not opposed to saying we're
discussing these things, you know, the data centers, things that have been discussed, but that we have no set plan for any of them. They're just areas that we're exploring right now.
>> Uh I was Thank you. Actually, I was going to say something like f future possible topics may include something like that. Um and that way um it may you know their interests and yet it doesn't commit us to um talking about anyone in
particular. future topics, you know, f possible future topics include such and such. >> Yeah. >> And what about Sorry, go ahead. >> I was just going to note I mean, you know, the data center thing is on today's agenda, right? Uh manufactured
housing is completely theoretical at this point. And yeah, now I you know I would uh you know I wanted to note in in my bullets that you know with data centers you know there's uh there's concerns about the use in town but there's also
another side to it which is that you know there could be potential revenue there. Um with uh manufactured housing we don't really we haven't really looked at that at all. You know it's kind of it's That's the kind of thing that keeps kind
of coming up like really skin deep and we haven't gotten into any very much substance. Keith, >> yeah, I would think just leave it at bullet points and don't go into any, you know, that issues that are on our radar or data centers, affordable housing, the
other stuff, and not go into >> uh why we're interested in these things. I mean I the people can tune in if we have it on an agenda where we're really going to discuss it. But again the on any one of those things it would be a laundry list of of issues or concerns
that that we might talk about. Um, I guess it's just to just to give the public an idea that that we're aware of these things that we're we're not blind to the data center
issue or affordable housing or things like that, but we because we really don't know what direction we're going to go just yet. >> Of course. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, I'm not uh I mean, yeah, the the the purpose of of doing any communication
and noting specifically data centers and specifically affordable housing, even so go going so far as uh manufactured uh houses would be to alert the community that there is
a possibility that the the board is going to submit to annual town to town to a town meeting. um you know uh bylaw amendments you know right at this point there's no draft amendments I you know I can be specific about that and say that you know there's
uh you know with data centers you know the the dis there's a discussion has started you know with affordable housing and u manufactured houses and there's been ongoing conversations about affordable housing but this isn't something that we've uh delved into
deeply um you know time permitting thing. It's It's something the board may end up uh reviewing further. Time permitting. Right. >> And did did you say you were this is this is last year's achievements? Also >> last year's achievements would be the
um ADU amendment, the ex uh tiny house amendment and the >> lighting was the lighting last year. >> 2004. >> What about the wheel lock site visit? That was uh >> that was last summer.
>> August, I think. >> Yeah, August of last year. >> I was I was thinking mostly uh legislative. Uh >> okay. >> All right. >> I mean, you know, I can >> I mean, it's the duties of the board. I mean, we're we're policing our permits. >> Well, that would be a great thing. Uh
yeah, I could note that, too. I could note that there was a weock site visit. I was not on that. just so the citizens know they're getting their money's worth. >> No, that's that's a great addition. >> I think this is a good conversation. I mean, it really, >> you know, I mean,
>> I I like the idea of Ashley talking about, you know, exploring and, you know, Jeff's thing about discussing like it is on our radar. I mean, I think those things, like you said, you know, people should know we're thinking about them. They should be aware of them. Um, and then, you know, it does help round
out what the board's about, that we actually have regulatory oversight responsibilities. So, I think that's cool. Um, >> the other I think the last thing I would say, you know, is >> it's always good to let people know when we meet and invite public comment, you
know, so like just say, hey, we meet the second ch Monday of every month and we welcome input. Um cuz most people have no idea. >> All right. Um someone >> That's right.
>> Nothing about the lawsuit. >> I you know when >> there's there's there's nothing about the lawsuit in the in the town announced. Um, >> I mean, I know it's like not something that we can share any details about, but if people that I'm sure that's the thing
people are most curious about. >> Should I put something in there like, you know, obviously, you know, the there is a there's ongoing litigation that I'm not going to speak of now, but uh, stay tuned. >> I something >> I think you can say. I mean, it's public
knowledge and D has said, >> of course. Yeah. that you know November 4th is our court date and we can't communicate anything else but I I do think it's important to mention the elephant in the room otherwise people would be like why didn't you say that >> right
>> sure that's that's a good point right so um all right so we're going to say introduction review PV responsibility >> is there a link to the court where people we could give people a link directly to the court for court documents >> yeah well the two things we should do I can I can share it with you because it's
It's not particularly user friendly. There's a link to the court and then you have to know the docket number. So I I'll send that to Nathan and then people should be able to get to it. I only know the docket number because it's saved in my cache. Otherwise, I
would I could never find it. I said the board conducted um so I'm I'm going to add uh review PB responsibilities. I'm going to keep that kind of simple. Um I'm you know mention that uh well yeah I'll
say board conducted a uh viewing prior year I'll I'll mention the bylaw amendments that were passed and also the board conducted a site visit to wheelock solar development is that like you know or weak solar
project solar site Wheelock solar site. Uh we called it it's now next but everybody knows it as the wheel lock site but I think it's the next something something technically >> tech say operated by next or you know I
don't know if that's I mean >> yeah I mean >> I mean the point the important thing is is that uh I'll note that you know the you know it was allowed by a special permit and that uh Yeah. Assess. We were
assessing site conditions, >> right? >> Or permit conditions laid out in the the original permits or something like that. >> Call it wheel. >> I mean, yeah, that's the that's the vernacular that we use. So, if people
came to meetings, that's what they would be hearing. All right. So, I've I've added um review of PB responsibilities, recalling achievements. We had uh the amendments. We're going to add the weock site visit for 2026 initiatives. We're going to
keep it um note that there's been some conversation already pertaining to data centers. I'll uh I guess I'll skip going into uh concerns and uh pros and cons on that. Is that
the consensus on that? >> Yeah. Um, oh, and I'm going to uh for PP responsibilities note the regular meeting schedule
and uh Okay. And then Nathan, I think we sort of jumped to all the substance, but we've got existing language from pitching the associate member stuff. So, if you want to just grab that, I think that's easy enough. >> Yeah. No, I think I'll do that. Um, and
you know, with uh I'm not going to lie, I toy with uh putting out there that uh you know, I was voted in as a chair against my will for the third time and encouraging people to uh to to run uh you know to to
be my replacement. But first, you probably want to get on as associate member and uh serve a couple years and then you know become a full board member so on and so forth. So that might be a little bit too uh hammy. But um >> I one question I do have which I think we've discussed each time is do we want
to set a deadline for people to express interest where just because there's pretty much no interest just have it be rolling? >> Yeah, I I would I would think rolling would be fine. I don't know if uh
you know a deadline is gonna uh scare anyone into uh doing it, but I mean I don't know. I could uh Does anyone else have any thoughts on that? You know, it's worth a try. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, we extend the
deadline, you know. So nobody feels left out like they just missed it. So use uh prior to our uh regularly scheduled uh oh we don't have a regularly scheduled meeting.
>> Why is that? Columbus Day. >> Okay. So, we have to move it. >> Yeah. You I think we'll probably shoot for the Monday after. Um but that's uh
well, we can address that offline. That I don't know if that's uh free for folks or not, but we'll we'll talk about it. Mattel, >> just further to this, um there is going to be a special town meeting in uh late September or early October and that
would be another opportunity to speak to the town about the opening. >> Oh yes, indeed, absolutely. Um, so I'll say uh I'll just use um how about we go with uh before I
regularly uh >> Labor Day. >> There you go. >> Labor Day. Yeah, se it's September 1st. It's the week before it's a holiday. >> When does the town announce go out? >> Oh, I have to write it
>> and then you just put it on there. It's not like there's not a deadline. >> No. No. >> That ought to be March by the time Nathan writes it. >> That's Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, if we pitch it as a rare and unusual opportunity
has come up >> lucrative. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Lucrative. Uh if >> if what you're looking for is uh character development. >> Yeah. We could pitch it as you want you
want to learn how democracy still works in a small town. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. There you go. >> Yeah. How old does one have to be to be an associate member? >> Voting age. So, I mean, you could theoretically
um pass it on to uh maybe uh as a history teacher, a social studies teacher at the high school. There might be some Shootpberry, you know, uh Shbury students who could do this as a extra credit project or something like that.
>> I'll volunteer you to do that >> and then and then report back to, you know, the class in terms of how town government works. But you might be able to um get that as an extra credit project through um the high school for a Shusparian. I'm just throwing this out.
>> Awesome. >> They have to do a civics project. It's required by the state. So that I can't think of a better one. >> Yeah. So that would be a great project. Is that required for all um all high school students? >> All high school students. It's it's
basically like what we have as history teachers for MCCAST because there's no history MCCAST. So >> then this would be this would be perfect to run run it through the um the principal at the high school and ask permission to pass it on to um or write
something and ask them to pass it on to the history teachers regarding uh Shpar, you know, Shusparian students who are in high school as a um as a project. >> Yeah. I I so I like the spirit of it, but I don't think practically it makes
sense. So when I think about, you know, like Ammerst Regional when they had student representatives on the school committee, >> you know, they're there for the school year and then they disappear and often they're, you know, seniors don't graduate. And so I mean I think Keith is
a living example of our success which is you start as an associate member and you figure out what's going on and so when the opening is there you step in and it's it's not necessarily the only way to do it but I wouldn't want to have someone sort of be around for nine
months and then disappear. Um it's it's not >> it doesn't help us. Um especially >> is the appointment for associate member I forgot. Is it a year? >> It's a year. Yeah. >> Yeah. No. Yeah. It's uh I mean it would be better um to uh have them take
minutes or something for uh one of the boards that doesn't have a clerk. >> I mean I I think it's nice idea to offer the opportunity uh for students in high school but maybe not as an formal associate member
because as you know as Michael said and some of you also said after nine months who knows what's going to happen. Yeah. They go away to college. They got priorities, right? >> Um but so I think we could offer the opportunity, but we still should look for associate members who live in town
and have a commitment to the to being here for a while. >> Yeah. Now, you know, uh doing a a civics opportunity with the high school to get people involved in town and municipal government is a great idea. uh associate member is not the best entry point for
that arguably, but I think uh you know that's something that uh could definitely be pursued. It would probably be best if it was um you know like a kind of a broadened uh uh group of people, not just from us to kind of consider where's a good fit for
that to go in. um you know where where's uh you know where might we do uh the most uh bang for the buck with a high school student that is uh doing a mandatory civics project right >> so I mean I do love the idea of
you know to Steve's point you know creating opportunities for democracy to be lived and learned um you know because if someone if someone actually participated and it's it it would be worth us thinking about how to do that Because
why would you we have to have you have to sort of have an understanding of if you had a say a student representative for the planning board they couldn't vote but we would want them to participate and share ideas and bring things forward and so why would we give them more airtime and access to
discussion than the public and so we have to sort of create a thing which validates that participation so I think it's a great idea I think the more we can do to support people learning, you know, how local government works would be great. Um, so I'd totally be on on
board with doing it. Um, >> it would be I mean, I think I would actually talk to Haley because I think if we could do it in multiple committees and come up with some, you know, job description, so to speak, or this is, you know, you're not a voting member, but you're participating and there's
some process. Um, you know, Haley has I talked to her about this, you know, the select board wanted to formalize the nomination process for appointed members of committees, so it wasn't so willy-nilly. And so, she now has a forum where people have to say what their background is, what they're
interested in. And so, I think she'd probably be interested in this kind of stuff. Um, I I it's a really cool idea. >> Yeah. You know, I mean, when you think about it, uh, town hall has gone through a pretty substantial amount of turnover
between, uh, Becky leaving and, uh, um, >> police chief. >> Oh, police chief, but I'm thinking uh, was it Maryanne or uh the the former uh, administrative secretary? >> Oh, you talking about Linda?
>> Yeah. Yeah, Linda Aoscott. That's the one. Sorry, I got but yeah, you know, I mean, you know, there's like a few people that have been in town hall forever, you know, and then, you know, at this point there's been, you know, a large amount of turnover, right? We have uh a Leslie in the assessor's office
that's been there forever, but and some other folks, too, but it's uh a lot of, you know, relatively newer bases, all things considered. >> Can I make another comment then? Um well it it might be possible if we don't want
to do high school it could be possible to do um uh you know UMass the Shootsbury Shootsbury students at UMass in the history department >> or or GCC or you know Holio Community
College or anywhere you know uh where Shootsbury students go they might be willing to do that commitment. It's only one year and um I realize it's not as good as someone coming in who's you know like uh Keith and someone with getting experience then you know moving on to
another you know a real planning board member but we might not get other people interested and better to have um a college student from Shootsbury in history as an associate member because the goal is to have um to not go into a
situation where we don't have enough people toote vote um and they could be you know they could be made real members for that particular um meeting time. So that's the real goal is I mean the goal is to train people but also to avoid a
situation where if we don't have a quorum then anything could pass right. >> Yes. Now uh we've gone on this is I like these ideas. I do. Um, but it's it's a >> it's certainly at this point diverging from the topic at hand, which will be
the town announced, which is not going to uh >> deal with uh >> the high school or or college. Um, but I will uh so just to try and >> maybe a reminder in there that even 18y
olds could do this if there's a high 18year-old in town. And I love the idea, Jeeoff, of reaching out to the local schools. And the civics project happens when they're juniors, by the way. So they're most of them aren't
18 yet. >> I don't know if they have to be voting age. Actually, I you know, I mean, >> wow. >> I mean, you can be an appointed member and not be a Shbury resident. Like I know on the concom residence. I don't you know
>> not for the planning board because the planning board is an elected body. The associate member must be a resident. >> Right. Right. Right. I know. But I don't know if age-wise like >> because we're we're jointly appointing someone. >> They they I don't know if they could run
for elected office if they can't vote. I don't know. Probably not, but I'm not sure. Um >> yeah, that's fair. I don't know either. For sure. I would be hardressed to uh support somebody who was not of voting age to serve on this committee as associate
member though. They would have to be a a literal genius, a certifiable genius. >> They're out there. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm thinking this through and I'm like, you know, we make some pretty consequential decisions as a board.
>> Yeah. >> Like that affects people's lives and and property. >> But again, we digress. We digress. You need to uh >> kind of need somebody with maybe a little more >> wisdom, I guess. >> Well, >> so I just want to, you know, it's an
opportunity to experience working democracy at a local level, right? That's uh Steve's. And then was there there was one other one. Um well, was a reminder that uh you know what, um you only need to be 18. Is that what someone just said? >> Yeah. Like you know, as long as you're
of voting age. >> Yeah. We certainly know that age doesn't equate with intelligence. Um, we certainly know that. >> Fair. Fair. >> The override in Belchuretown, which kept my school from completely falling apart,
passed by 18 votes. And there was about that many high school seniors at the meeting. >> Wow. >> Yeah. They made it happen. They're very they can get very involved, but yeah, they they take off and fly to the four directions once they graduate. They're
all gone. So, it's tricky. Okay, I think I have what I need. Um, so, uh, I might tap someone on the shoulder to just do a, uh, second review once I write it. But uh thank you for the feedback on
that. Um I'll I've taken notes as I've uh iterated here. And now I think uh unless anyone else has any last call uh aside from the uh high school and college program to uh talk about in that
uh uh communication. Okay. Now, next item we have a PB designate to Burkhog. >> Do something. >> I'm sorry. I just um Marylu, were you about to put your hand up there? Were you trying to say something?
>> Hi. Yes. Um I was a little late on public comment. I don't know if I can ask the question now or not. you know, at my discretion today, Mary. I will uh I will allow it.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, I I came in tonight to ask um if there's any kind of update on the solar project that's um coming to town. Um just to give you a little background, I asked Select Board and in
that email I had Haley CCD and they said something about that I didn't understand. Maybe Matteo cuz he goes by the book could understand that they said they're in executive session
and that was the answer. So I I just wonder have they come to you for um you know permission to build or Yeah. No, no, uh, no applications have, no special permit applications
have been submitted to the planning board to uh, develop any uh, solar uh, projects at this time. >> Oh, good, good, good. Thank you. >> But, you know, Marylu, thank you because you reminded me of one item I forgot to
add in my list for our prior agenda item, which is the uh, our town announced, which was we're going to briefly mention that we have a ongoing litigation. M >> and a court date November 4th. >> Say what, Michael?
>> We have a court date of November 4th. >> November 4th. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mary. >> That's now Now that's Now that's in my notes. I
I I I missed that. So, I'm glad I got that. That's right. Thank you, Marilu. Okay. Um, >> yes. >> You want me to summarize Jessica's email about the Furkhog
planning board? I sent it to everybody. I don't know if everybody committed to memory. You know, I'm uh for this agenda item, Michael, I'm not as much interested in talking about that as I am trying to figure out if anyone wants to uh if we want to designate someone to to
serve on the board. Um >> well, I think it relates. >> Yeah, it might. I guess it does. Um so >> I think that's that's fair. >> Yeah. I mean, >> go ahead. Well, what we we were trying to last time we were trying to figure
out so Burkhog was changing its charter and one of the questions was how does the change in the charter affect the Franklin County Regional Planning Board. Um so I reached out to Jessica Adwood who's the planning director at FKOG and so she wrote back and I forwarded this to everybody but the current charter
which I don't know if it's officially changed yet but will be soon. um currently has one planning board member from each town and one select board member or their designate. But under the new charter change, um it looks like
Jessica is going to be able to recommend procedural changes to how the planning board works. And what she wrote was that she's going to ask each local planning board chair for a recommendation for someone. Um, and it could be someone
with on the planning board, the ZBA, the Concom, a recent board member, or a municipal planner or community development staff person in town. So, I think um, and then we also wanted to know like, okay, is there a change in frequency because we care about how
often we have to go to these meetings? And she said, currently it's six times a year. They're considering under the new charter only doing it four times a year. So I don't think the new paradigm is in place yet in official but I mean what I took away from this is that
you can as chair you can see if someone's interested and then appoint them now and have it just carry over. Um but it doesn't look like the select board's going to be part of that. It's really sort of people with some planning
role, but it could be it could be you saying someone on the ZBA wants to do it and, you know, a more expanded pool of applicants, so to speak. Having said all that, I' I'm fine with doing it if I I think I had mentioned that last time, but
you did. There was, I guess, a question of whether or not uh Tom did do it or not. And uh we just said, you know, there's not a meeting between last month and this month. Um so, you
know, we'll ask Tom if if uh he's come to any kind of uh feeling about whether he wants really wants to do it or not. And then uh we can see what he says. >> He's here.
>> I know. Yeah. By the way, welcome Tom. He he jumped in uh I think around the time um Mar Lou was asking her a question. >> Oh, it was actually about the teenagers and the high schoolers. Um >> Oh, okay. >> No worries. Uh thank you. I'm so sorry
I'm late. Um I would probably benefit from being second here or, you know, second string. If Michael were really willing, that would be helpful for me more than committing to it. But I am able to commit to it if needed.
Hope that was clear. Okay. Um, do I hear a motion to uh for the planning board to designate Michael Decara as our representative to the Furcog uh planning board?
>> I'll make that motion. Okay, Steve moves. Do I hear a second? >> A second. >> Weston seconds. Any discussion, >> Michael? Thank you. >> Sure.
>> Right. I will call the roll. Pra >> I >> hi >> Weston. >> Hi. >> Hasty. >> Hi, >> Deara. I >> I'm an I. The motion carries unanimously.
>> Outstanding. >> I will dutifully represent us. >> That's uh without a doubt. >> Thank you, Michael. >> Okay, now we get to our we get to discuss data centers and uh potential
bylaw amendments. Michael has done some research. He sent it to the board. So, Michael, why don't you go ahead and and speak. >> Okay. So, I sent something I think last weekish and then I sent something earlier this evening with some updated
stuff. Um, so you know, Nathan alluded to some of this stuff, you know, so it's it's in writing, but just to sort of identify, you know, it's definitely and the article I sent this morning from Politico just like came across my threshold, and I thought I'd share that,
but it's a nationally evolving issue. You know, it's directly connected to the growth of AI. Um, and I think the identified issues, you know, to bullet point them, they often require high water usage. They often have high
electrical usage. Um, there's exhaust. Um, when they're using backup generators, which they need to do for, you know, even if they're run on solar or something, they need backup for 247 access. There's noise issues. Um,
depending on the size, they require a lot of land. um given what they are, there's needs for security and lighting so that they're secure facilities and they're 247 operations. So, um they definitely have
an imprint wherever they are. Um they're it looks like, you know, in terms of zoning, it's it's evolving, you know. So there are some communities that are embracing them because they do make money and other places where they're
not. Um I think the other thing I would say just from the ones on today which I think is I found really helpful is that um I was trying to think about okay there's the issues and then there's how do you regulate them as you know as a
regulatory body and so the two things I was thinking about is what the definitions are you know so we would want to put data centers in the definition section of the bylaw whatever we do um assuming that we do thing. Um, it seems like, you know, the thing I
sent out today was it had a definition from IBM and from Cisco, which seems like pretty reputable IT companies, and then a couple other websites, but they all basically say the same thing, which is, you know, it's a physical structure that houses IT infrastructure for
storing and managing data. Um, and you know, includes servers and routers and all the required hardware. The interesting thing which is a little bit harder to get one's head around, not not too complex, but you know there's
different types. So there's collocation which is like someone will build one and people can buy a piece of it. You know sort of like a shared office space kind of thing where you know you need data storage and management but you don't have the
facility to sort of do a big one. Then there's enterprise or or large enterprise and that's sort of the the really big companies. There's cloud-based ones which is like the Amazon, Google um and they all they all sort of show up on the ground in a
similar way. It's just a matter of size. Um and then there's two interesting ones. One's called an edge data center and then the other's called a micro data center and those are smaller. Um what was in the thing I sent you? It says the edge data centers, they're
intentionally smaller and closer to the end user. So, you know, I think the idea is that you can have multiple ones of these so that they can be redundant and there's less latency because they don't the signals don't have to travel as far.
Um, and then a micro data center is just a smaller version of that. Um I get the impression that those are sort of growing um as opposed to the the micro the the macro ones. Um and then I
think the last thing I would share well I got two things to share but one is I was thinking about size you know so we think about solar we think about battery storage or we think about um even residential it's all about size you know
how many acres how many megawws etc. The two articles that I felt found compelling which just shared both say that you can't just look at the energy used as a size. So you can't say data center is x you know using x megawatts of energy um that it's really a
combination of factors. So it's energy, it's water, it's land use and you know actual like square footage um taken collectively. So it's sort of a multiffactoral like what's their capacity which is sort of interesting because I think initially I started
thinking well what just like we think about say batteries like what's a what's a reasonable size battery that could be you know housed in sheet spray. Um it's it doesn't seem like it's easy as that. Um, so that's sort of the background and
I think just I I'll throw out what I've been thinking and then we could sort of just chat. But I I'm I don't want to do anything, you know, quickly and irresponsibly. But on the other hand, you know, Nathan and I
had a little bit of back and forth and when he was talking about the light industry and I think it personally would be a mistake to consider it light industry because then it allows a special permit and a whole process and it can go into different parts of town and then we get stuck in the in sort of
a a regulatory process we might not want to be in. And it seems like having a data center use designated is the better way to go to say here's a definition of a data center and then here and then put something in the use table that's
separate, you know. So just like other things, it's it's its own beast because clearly I think it is its own beast and then we can decide what it is. So it seems like that's an approach. And then I guess my last thought is
ever since I found out there's going to be a special town meeting in the fall, part of me was like, can we just add a category with a definition, you know, for the fall that says this is what the definition of a data center is and
prohibit it in all zones and then spend the rest of the year having a conversation. actually having something that's protective in place while we have the chance because it seems like these things are, you know, getting looked at actively. Um, and I wouldn't want us to
get sort of stuck. Um, the last thing I'll just say, and I don't have an answer to this, but there is I think there's a debate that if a if a use is not in the use table, some people say if it's not in the use
table, then it can't be done in a municipality. And other people say if it's not in the use table, it's not prohibited from being a use. So, I don't know which way it it falls, but I think there's a danger in not having it be named because then you have to stick you have to shoehorn it in if you feel like
you have to find a place for it. And the only shoe horn is probably light industry. So, that's that's all my thinking that to start this off. >> So, Michael, what if we I agree with you about the adding the definition, you
know, that part is easy. Um, and what about as a temporary fix rolling it into light industry so we can buy time to properly write a bylaw specifically for data centers?
Well, I would so I mean my sense I'm I worry about light white light industry because as Nathan said like I don't know half an hour ago it can go into rural residential it can go into forest conservation and then we sort of what if
it's really big and you know like do we want to we might be finding ourselves having a conversation and then getting sued for something that you know we're we're backed into. Um, what I what I I guess what I was thinking is if you put it in the use table and you just
prohibit it, we're not writing a bylaw. We're just changing the use table and then it gives us the rest of the year to actually have a conversation and come up with a substantive bylaw where >> I think that's what I was suggesting actually. I I wasn't clear about that. >> Um,
B it buys us time to do just that to come up with a wellthoughtout bylaw. >> Yeah. I I think that's a great idea. I mean, what I've read about these um data centers is some of them use like a half
a million gallons of water a day. So, um you can imagine that depleting our aquifers in, you know, a few weeks. So, um I think we should put something in the books if we can during this upcoming meeting to prohibit it completely and
then and then fine-tune it. It's a It would be disastrous for this town to have something like that in with our only water supply as our aquifers. >> What could such a development be built in this town?
>> You never know. Oh, actually >> I'm thinking about, you know, UMass and Hampshire College and Ammeris College and the the edge thing that you mentioned, you know, that's that seems like a possibility that someone might
seek out because it's close to the universities and um obviously they're going to need a lot more capacity for AI as well. I did watch the video, Michael, that you posted about uh what UMass is like the
work that they're doing there. And so at least they're being conscious about it, like they're studying it, but >> I don't know. I mean, I think anything's possible. We're in a new >> What is this video? I'm sorry to interrupt. >> Oh, UMass is working on um there's a a
group of scholars there working on uh figuring out the carbon output, >> correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, of AI systems and how to um how to mitigate
and not mitigate, but how to make as little carbon output as possible. Basically, If you watch it, you'll see. I'm sure I'm getting it wrong, but it's something along those lines. But like, as far as what could be built in this town, sure. I mean, why couldn't Amazon come in and
knock down a 100 acres and use our water? And I mean, >> because they would have to they would have to apply for a special permit from us, >> of course, which you know, we can Yeah. I don't know about but if there was a
project application before this that was going to use 100 how many how many gallons Jeff >> you're muted >> you're muted your indignation is muted >> I think you said half a million a day >> half a million gallons a day you know I
can't imagine that >> I'm sorry half a million gallons a day to cool down the AI computers and that completely sucked up the water from the aquifer wherever it was. Um I can't remember Arizona or something and yeah um yeah it's um I think we should have
something in the books saying um >> we do yeah >> we have something on the books >> now I mean you know I uh noted concern over the u use of the general conditions right and I've been it might be worth trying to review it
more but it's I mean obviously you know the uh you know if we look at what those uh conditions are um there's lots of conditions in there about you know unacceptable
environmental impact act. I believe there's conditions that touch specifically upon water and aquifers, right? So, uh it's not like someone can just come in and build a gigantic mega data center in
this town. >> Well, I think it's it's not practical, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. I think what comes to mind is I don't know how was two decades ago maybe longer when I think it was Ko wanted to you know
pump water out of Montagu for its you know Danti business you know which would have depleted the aquifer you know and so it wasn't like KO was thinking about you know are we going to deplete the water supply in moduous that they were looking for places to get water so they
can bottle it and sell it so I I Guess given our saga about solar, my my thought was keeping, you know, if you put it put it in the use table and you prohibit it while we disco come with something
that's a little bit more nuanced, um, it keeps us out of, you know, potential litigation or like it sends a signal that, you know, we're we're not interested in this. um where if it's nothing in writing then you know I'm
guessing someone would say well let's try it and see what happens maybe they'll cave um >> you know there's a you know the board could be captured by prodevelopment inhabitants of Shootsbury although given
the uh trend in uncontested races I would uh I would doubt that outcome. Um, and you know, this is not a a use that is outlined in uh chapter 48 section 3. There are no protections, >> right?
>> Okay. >> Right. >> Um, now, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, we shouldn't do anything, but I'm I'm trying to uh lower the temperature a little bit because uh we have a lot of uh things in place already.
>> Um, and I just I want us to have that you know, I don't know. I think it's important to kind of have that properly in our uh heads and have that perspective. Um, >> it's not the end of the world if we don't do it. I totally get your point.
>> No. Yeah. Yeah. But I I don't know currently if if you can really define uh or if our definition of light and industry includes a data center, right?
That's uh you know what's uh and by by the way speaking of you know specifics for special permits we have light industry in U we don't have much in the bylaw it's in
the use table is an allowed use in two districts but there's nothing specific to it in terms of further um provisions in the bylaw. >> Well, the definition is manufacturer,
assembly, treatment, processing or packaging of products in a manner that does not emit objectional ejectionable levels of smoke, noise, dust, odor, glare, or vibration beyond the property boundaries, which, you know, is probably
why we got put into there. And you know except you know there's the the emissions from generators which would be smoke and there is noise. Um there's probably no dust, no odor, no glare. I'm guessing there's no vibration. So one could make a reason.
>> There could be vibrations. >> Well, yeah, one could, but I think you debatable. >> Yeah. >> You know, so one one could argue the fact that it's light industry. >> Yeah. I I still think as a stop gap measure and remember stop gap measure
not the final solution is to is to do what Michael suggested initially which is define it in the in the definition in the table in the definitions and then add it to uh prohibited in the uh or light either light industry or prohibited currently
>> and then give us a year to talk about the proper kind of bylaw to write for it. >> Yeah, I agree with Steve. >> I agree as well. Keith, you're fine. >> Is the agreement to um
you know put it into uh light industry which is an allowable use or put it as a separate use and prohibit it? >> I would what I was suggesting is there's a whole category for industrial that we created in 2024 which includes soil mining, light
industry, wireless communications and temporary wind monitoring systems. So I would add, you know, data centers to that as a fifth use within the category of industrial >> cuz keep in mind worst case scenario if
somebody comes along and proposes something before we have our bylaw ready, we can condition the heck out of, you know, and and take care of a lot of the concerns that we all have right now that something going up that's out of
scale with Shootsbury. Yeah, I mean, you know, I uh I think the board might be on pretty solid footing right now to to say that data center
does not um fit into an allowable use. >> Certainly notable character. >> Correct. >> Well, I mean, light light industry, it's it's not manufacturer. You're not manufacturing anything. You're not assembling anything. There's no treatment. There's no processing.
There's no packaging. Processing, you know, you kind of think of processes, right? You're processing data, but processing in a light industrial sense is like you're taking a raw material and processing it into a finished material. Okay? There's none of that in a data center. How is it light
industry? It's not. It's not light industry. >> A smart lawyer would argue with you, but >> I'd agree with you. Well, you know, I mean, I'm just trying to make the point that, you know, I don't think that um I don't know that we
could allow one. >> I don't know if we could allow one right now, >> but um you know, that being said, I you know, I would be interested in in um I don't know. I I'm I'm hesitant my you know, personally to
to go full prohibition at this time. um one because I don't think there's a risk of anything uh coming and my you know the primary uh factor in that would be you know generally speaking obviously
there are data data centers in in Massachusetts but it's uh you know the price of electricity here is generally high with respect to the rest of the country obviously there's always going to be you know need for some of that infrastructure Um
now there's other there's other factors uh that go into it like uh you know access to energy is one access to water could be one right um and there may be other kinds of uh I'm
not very familiar with the kind of infrastructure that goes into the uh internet and telecommunications right which data centers are uh in business with I will say that when I was speaking with uh uh Gail Gail Huntress who's the uh
municipal light plant manager, I mentioned that this topic had come up, you know, so this is an FYI and uh and she told me that if a data center were established in
town that apparently it may be one possible scenario is that the municipal light plant could sell services to uh data center which would uh benefit uh residents in town because the cost of internet would go down potent uh you
know that would potentially reduce the cost of uh internet but that's uh that's unquantified right but you know what I'm trying to say is that there there is potential real uh benefit to inhabitants of Shootsbury if
uh a project came to town that wasn't unacceptable uh by other measures Right. Um, you know, looking at, you know, I I think it's, you know, the article Michael was talking about which is, uh, you know,
don't just measure it by its, uh, energy, um, intake. I thought that was kind of interesting because, you know, uh, everyone's talking about energy, right? But, um, I thought the the of the bullet points in there, the cooling capacity is interesting, right? Which is
the efficiency of the data center cooling systems. Um, all right. So, inefficient uh cooling systems are either using a lot more energy, electricity, or a lot more water. Um, so yeah, you know, there's a lot of
different um factors, but you know, again, going back to the uh what was it? Edge micro data centers. >> Yeah. Right. Right. So, that's kind of near to the end users possibly UMass and you know, some of the five colleges and that's Yeah. you know, I don't know if
that's really, you know, some of that is, you know, when you're talking about um I don't know, you're you're doing uh computing that is uh so involved that it makes a difference whether or not
you're if you're using Amazon Web Services out in like Washington, right? And the speed of light is like, you know, it's pretty quick, but because it's out in Washington, it's enough it's enough time that it's affecting what you're doing because it's so far away. And if it were in in state in New
England even, right, it's a difference, you know, that that's like high-powered stuff. Um, uh, Keith. >> So, I think I think maybe kind of what we're we're talking and it's back to the the article that Michael sent on how do you measure it? You know, what's the metric?
>> Yeah. And I think our concern as a town or as representatives of the town is the scale of one of these things. You know, is it the size of a house or the size of an Amazon warehouse? um if they built, you know, if UMass built one or if anybody built one that
was, you know, relatively non-discreet and they could negotiate the power from National Grid or Ever Source, whoever they got the power from. Um would the town have an issue with it? Um, again, I think we're the I I told
Michael I I was in Virginia recently and saw a whole bunch of these things that were in built or or being built outside of DC. And some of them are massive like Amazon warehouse just four or five stories high, windowless,
um, big security fences around them just imposing uh facilities. Yeah, that that's out of place in Shootsbury. but a smaller nondescript building that wasn't a a you know a
giant eyes sore. Maybe that would be something the town would accept. I don't know. So I guess when if we think about trying to write some kind of bylaw about this, I think scale size scale is probably a big thing. The water I you know that's probably Jeff one of the things that
would keep them away from Shootsbury is that our groundwater is not easy to pump. Anybody that's got a well knows that they they don't recharge quickly. It's a weird aquifer. It's fractured rock. It's not a sand and gravel aquifer that you can pump the heck out of. So
>> I mean I don't know anybody's going to come here >> that needs a lot of water. We just don't have a lot of water. Yeah. So >> um I I don't want to Are you done, Keith? I don't want to interrupt you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Um, Nathan, I I just don't understand um
there's no in my in my view of this, there's no downside of doing what Michael says. I mean, there's no downside. You just put it in and and that's it. Um, so I don't um I'm I don't quite understand your um your disagreement with that because there's
no downside in in inserting that in a town meeting that's coming up. Well, the downside if if we're talking about prohibition, which it sounds like we are, would be that you're prohibiting a use that could potentially one be used uh uh be a potential customer of our
municipal light plant and uh reduce uh internet cost for the inhabitants of Shootsbury and two provide uh tax revenue to the town. >> But but we're not talking about we don't we don't need to be talking about prohibiting it.
um forever. It's almost like a moratorum while we're like we you know like we need time to really we can't we don't this is not the venue right now to discuss pros and cons or the the details of a bylaw. is just to discuss what can
we do as a stop gap and if we prohibit it now we're or we put what we call a moratorium on it right now because we don't have a bylaw I think that's a healthy way to go and adding it to the use table as Michael suggest I mean the definitions uh I I strongly agree with
you there's no downside it just gives us time to uh prevent the uh unmentionable which would be someone coming in and tapping our poor aquifers it just basic basically prevent something that's highly unlikely but prevent something
that's that's possible um especially like on the edge of Ammerston you know into Shootsbury I think it's just it's prudent in my view to prevent something that could be disastrous for our town >> just to clarify I mean I Nathan I am
suggesting a temporary thing because I think you know K's point and I did find that article you know like how do you what are the metrics for size. It it is about scale. You know, it could be that a smaller scale would not draw so much
or, you know, maybe we want to say for municipal use it's allowed because we know that municipal use, you know, you could it would be helping the town, you know, if if MLP contracted out some of its space or something. So like there's a
lot of subtleties both technical and um you know municipal private location like all this stuff that we don't know. I think this is a it's totally an emerging issue like for the whole country. Um so my thought was it is doing the
prohibition is I think equivalent to what Steve said as a mortorium. We're not calling it a moratorum. Um, it's probably less politically fraught to say it's, you know, with the AG to say it's not a moratorum. Who the hell knows what they what they would think?
But >> well, we we did that. We did that, I think, years ago >> with building permits. We we've done it with a few I can't remember everything. Deacon, if he was here, he'd remember better, but we we did it with a few
different uh topics. Put a moratorium in place. got her act together, got a good bylaw, what we thought was a good bylaw at the time, and put it before town. I think it's a it's a wise way to go. There's no downside for I if we if you
want to call it moratorum, that's fine. You know, one-year moratorum. We can put a time limit on it. >> My concern is that >> problem with that. >> My my concern is we call it a moratorum and then it just ends up staying that way. >> No, no, no. We put a timeline. We put a
time frame on it. We did with the building permits. >> I mean, there's no >> the building per permits are different because that's a that's a a single family residential use you're talking about. Okay. That's a as of right use. Okay. This is not an as of right use. So it's different and and I think you
know from my perspective of go you know going right out and and putting a prohibition in you know it's uh I don't know maybe you know you could put language in the the bylaw amendment that says you know this is intended on
being temporary but you know there's there's no temporary mechanism to it. you put in a prohibition and it's prohibited until uh it goes before town meeting again and actually gets changed and that's in the meantime that's sending the signal that no it's not welcome here which you know
obviously you know that's favorable to to many and yeah I I I don't I don't think there's any risk whatsoever of any large entity coming in here and tapping our our poor aquifers because one I don't even know if our bylaw currently
would u if we could allow data center anyway because it doesn't fit into an existing definition and our bylaw explicitly says that uses not listed are thereby prohibited right so you know I think taking the extra extraordinary step of adding it
just to prohibit it is is not necessarily the direction that is most uh you know beneficial if you replace the word prohibited with a one-year moratorum because you can put a time limit on a moratorum I don't think the AG would have any problem with that.
>> Well, that could that could be that could be uh what I was going to suggest is the you we've got the uh these uh edge uh edge micro uh smaller outfits, right? You know, that's probably the kind of thing that one
might actually a developer might in the right mind want to come to Shootsbury for and two that might actually be um okay for us because it's a smaller facility. And Jeff, you're shaking your head, but why?
>> We can respectfully disagree. There's no way in my mind that a data center drawing whatever half a million gallons, even 250,000 gallons or 100,000 gallons of water or would be beneficial to our
town. There's no way in my mind um and I come from training as a biologist at TUS and aquifers and water. >> Is it is that a factual statement that all data centers use water? >> No, I'm No, no, no. I'm talking about data centers in our town, not for data
centers, for example, perhaps next to a river that could take, you know, that could uh um afford to, you know, lose a half a million gallons. I I think the danger I I suppose I I can't quite
Nathan, it's okay. This is why we have seven members. I cannot understand why you would oppose a statement giving a moratorum for a year until we could come up with a um until we can come up
with bylaws. There's no downside to it. I just don't understand your opposition to it. I I'll be very honest. I just don't understand it. we could put in a moratorum for a year and then discuss it further and um it would safeguard us in
case of the you know the high highly unlikely possibility that uh someone would come in and try to do it. There's no downside to it. I suppose that's why I don't understand if there was a downside I could understand your um disagreement but there's no downside to
it. There is a my view there's a down there's a potential downside if uh if we miss an opportunity to uh increase the tax base. Now I you know I'm not under the impression that that is going to involve half a million gallons of water a day. You know I'm under the impression that small facilities probably don't use
any water for cooling. I know >> that's a that's a discussion to have when we start to think about a bylaw that kind of discussion >> micro data centers edge data centers all we >> and it's also a discussion I mean I think it's a pertinent discussion now because we're talking about you know
prohibiting it across the board is a moratorum >> yeah we're talking about for one year not a big deal >> for one year >> not a big deal >> the other way to go is a middle ground is Nathan because you you cited You
know, the line in the use table language that says uses that are not listed below are prohibited unless state or federal laws preclude such pro prohibition. I mean, what do you think about having a warrant article that says um
town, you know, town meeting agrees that per the the zoning bylaw, uses that are not listable or prohibited, the town does not consider data centers to be light industry or other any other named use because the issue is backing into a
use that it shouldn't be, you know, and the only one that's probably likely is a light industry at this point. But um you know, not saying anything creates the opportunity that it could, you know, >> we might want a data center. You're you're right.
We don't know enough about you know, if there's a small well configured thing like that's a conversation for later, but what we don't want to do is be able to have to having to defend regulating something as light industry when we don't think it's light industry.
regardless of what you say. Um I mean the reality is solar is not doing any processing either. It's all electrons just like a data center. And yet Welock was light industry. So it could be argued, you know, by anyone who's got an argument to make.
>> I I I uh I think that was a different scenario. >> Why? because I think I think in that scenario the board wanted to regulate a use under the special permit framework because otherwise as that use was protected
under 48 section 3 it would have been allowed by right. So by shoehorning it into light industry, you get to say it's a special permit. >> But a lawyer could argue that if you allowed wheelock, which deals with
electrons, why are you not considering a data center which deals with electrons light industry as well? I mean, it's true established president. >> What I would what I would like to do is uh >> and that gets into >> Wait, wait. But that gets us into the quandry of having to defend ourselves
and pay more legal fees which the town shouldn't have to do. So it seems like the easy more conservative approach is to prohibit it before we end up in a legal quagmire. Figure out what we want to do and then proceed in a thoughtful manner as opposed to backing into a legal mess and people get pissed at us
again because we're spending money on legal fees that no one really wants to spend money on. Well, I I would certainly agree that we don't want to get ourselves into a situation where we have to be uh spending uh money on a bunch of legal fees. Now, uh
>> can I say something? >> One moment. I I would like to uh reach out to Donna and pose the question on data centers and whether or not uh what where we stand right with the questions of the bylaw as it's written with the
questions of uh the prior uh precedents that may have been may or may not have been set by you know uh treating PV a PV solar project as light industry even though arguably it doesn't
fit into that definition based on how, you know, what, you know, so yeah, I I I would like to, you know, consult, you know, hear from uh town council. I'm interested in exploring um
I understand, you know, the the broader board may not be with me on this, but I'm interested in exploring, you know, uh with these smaller ones, you know, like is it uh you know, are there ones that, you know, don't require water for cooling? because I think that's an important question is that's a primary
concern that we have because if if that was the case then you know that could be added I would I would >> that's the bylaw development that's the stuff that we have to do >> right right >> but but I mean you know if we can add in anything in the bylaw for a special town
meeting we can add in we can add in that too >> no because how do you know what where do you where do you put it on the continuum of appropriateness >> all you have to do is develop a regul you know just a regulation that says you know no uh you know if you define a data
center as an allowable use um or you know you say there's a a footprint and you say provided that you know no data center so uh draw water from a well in Shootsbury for or or any other water source derived in Shootsbury for
purposes of cooling >> I think >> simple as that >> are you done yeah >> yeah okay um >> go ahead Yeah. >> Well, I mean, I would like to know more about the
definition of light industry and where I find that information. Where do I Is that a state thing or are you talking about in our bylaws? >> It's in our first I have a couple that's in our bylaw. Where do you >> definition at the end? >> Okay, I'll look. Um, and I mean just
based on what I'm gleaning just from listening, this could totally be off, like data centers are producing something that is a commodity whether it's tangible or not. It's it's something that's worth money that people are buying and selling and possessing.
And so I imagine if I was a lawyer, I would go that route. like there's plenty of things that aren't tangible that are worth something. And uh we're in, you know, we're in a brave new world with all of this. And I'm sure that all of these companies
that are building these data centers have lawyers who are going to be perusing bylaws in the places where they want to put these things and trying to figure out how they can do it. And you know, yes, it's highly unlikely that
we're going to get anything massive in Shootsbury. It's I have no idea if it's likely we're going to get an edge or a micro either, but that seems more tangible and more possible. Meanwhile, while we figure it out and while we see how things play in the next
year play out, I would be in favor of prohibiting it. Um, that said, like I'm a little concerned like even if we do that, are we potentially inviting a lawsuit because it I don't know if anyone else in the state is doing
anything like this. You know, we always are sort of leaders on this kind of stuff. Um, so that's something to consider. You know, we might be inviting some attention our way if we choose to do this, but I feel like it's really the right path. I mean, these so many
thousands of these are going to get built in the next few years and universities are going to need them. Everybody's going to need them. Um, and it feels negligent to me to just do nothing to just say, "Let's trust that our bylaws will prohibit it because I I
don't think that that doesn't feel safe to me." But as Jeff said, we can agree to disagree. Um, I just think it's it's prudent and responsible to the people of this town for us to give ourselves a year to study it, consider it, see how
it plays out. And it's just a year like if people have to wait a year to to invest in the tax base of our town, they'll wait if they want it enough. My two cents. >> So, let me try again. Let's replace the
word prohibited with moratorum. And if as we all say and we know this is a growing uh data centers are a thing that's going to come right then a year is not going to make a difference. If if after the year whatever the board
decides whatever bylaw we end up with at least we'll have done our homework. We'll be thoughtful about it and it's only for a year and and if it's a growing trend that year is going to be nothing. But not doing anything like this, like not putting a moratorium on
it is more, we're in more jeopardy than doing it a moratorium for a year. >> Um, I I strongly agree with you, Steve, and also Ashley. I think it comes Nathan I think it comes down to trusting town meeting because you know if this group is saying we want
to put it on hold for a year and come up with a thoughtful bylaw we're going to have the conversation in the subsequent months about what a thoughtful bylaw is and debate all that kind of stuff. So I think we can commit to each other that that's what we want to do. It really then is like, okay, so if town meeting
approves an updated temporary use table and definition, do you trust a town meeting when we come up with the full-blown bylaw and we maybe change the use table would go along? And my sense is they've gone along if we can explain our thinking. Um, so you know, it's it's
sort of it's on us to be able to to convey that. >> I mean, I hear you and I understand that, you know, I'm uh seemingly uing a minority opinion. Um, and that's that's okay. Um
now, uh I I would like to hear from our town council on, you know, what's our what's our current situation and I would like to, you know, at least personally um learn more about uh what, you know, potentially smaller projects.
>> Okay. Well, the the practical limitations, just to sort of put it out there, I mean Matteo had said it earlier. So, we're going to have special time meeting late September or October sometime. So we even if we change the use table which is easy you know you put
in data centers just say PPP um and you take a definition from you know we can take one of the ones that were offered here that are relatively mundane um we have to vote to approve that and send it to the select board and then we have to have a public hearing
for it. So talking to Donna and then incorporating it into our next meeting which is September 8th is a high likelihood we're not going to do it for town meeting because we won't be able to have a public hearing. So >> well um yeah I assume you know I guess that's a list will be you know a draft
of uh this moratorum. Say again, >> adding to our list of uh you know hearing from Donna and uh we can add a um learning more about uh the small facilities and and we can add
to that uh a draft to uh potentially submit. But are you proposing that we would need to set a a hearing date today? I think well I mean I went into it thinking about the time frame but not assuming that I would know where this
conversation goes but my thought was part of the approach was to keep it simple you know so like a use table you you literally just add a use and you you say prohibited in all four zones and we
could look at you know come up with a definition that we agreed to and then say this is going to be our proposed amendment said to the select board. We could decide September 8th that we don't want to do it, but we still would have to have a public hearing before town
meeting. So, you know, maybe it won't work, maybe it's too tight. Um, it just seemed like once Haley told us we have a special town meeting, it seemed like, well, better than waiting till May of next year or June or whenever we're going to do it. Um, so you know, if we
weren't a special town meeting, we would just have a long process and we would keep researching and discussing and debating and we would, you know, do this stuff in February or March of next year. >> I'd say um I'm sorry, are you okay? Um, two things. One is I'd love to hear
Keith um how you feel about this. The second thing is that if this was all turned around and I was the only one who was against it and everyone else was for it, we would probably have a vote and see how we felt,
right? Because it is a planning board of six or seven, you know, members. So, I would offer the possibility I want to hear from Keith and um um about how you feel about it, Keith, about putting in a one-year moratorum. And then I'd like the possibility of
being able to vote and move forward with it. I mean, that's how I that's how I feel. Again, if I was the only one against it and everyone else is for it, we'd probably go for a vote. And I've been in that situation before as well. Now, this isn't questioning, you know,
the rule of law. Um, Nathan, this is just looking at the planning board, the seven members, and being able to vote on what some of us, perhaps the majority feel is appropriate of having a one-year moratorum and and voting on it and then
um and then proceeding on writing the bylaw. That's the way I feel. So, it seems like uh you know, you might you might have easily have four Jeff, but um we we are we were just talking about, you know, possibly setting a date for a
special uh for a a hearing. >> Um yeah. Well, that I'd like to >> Well, yeah. Yeah. So, you would like to hear from Keith if >> Yeah, let's hear from Keith. And I I'd like to possibly This is a For me, there's no downside to this. is just
basically um protecting us from a situation that could be um not in the best interest of the people that elected me. >> So Keith, I don't know how you feel about uh the possibility of putting a one-year moratorum and then having
discussions on the bylaw of a possible data center. >> I'm uncomfortable. I I don't have a good handle on what a data center is. Again, it's back to the scale. Is it a a room with a couple of racks of computers? Is
it or again the Amazon warehouse scale? And the definitions that Michael I mean again it's it's kind of loosey goosey. They don't really talk of they just say data center. I could I could interpret that in a lot of ways. You know a lot of office buildings probably have data
centers and a utility closet somewhere. Um, so I think I think as a board we need to somehow get a get a grip on what we mean by data center. You're focused on the groundwater and again I think that's
like like Nathan says, I'm sure these big ones do have a need for water cooling. Uh but I do envision a bunch of smaller ones are are chilled with air conditioners just like our houses are um like other equipment um and don't have a
lot of through through water uh demands um and I I don't I I also you know don't feel the urgency because I I really and maybe this is naive on my part I again shoot does not seem like an attractive
target for anybody. body. Hell, just from our landscape, uh, building anything around here ain't, you know, a walk in the park, let alone if it's a a high water demand, uh, industry. Or again, back to electricity. They need
they need cheap electricity. And Massachusetts ain't Western Mass ain't ain't really the place for cheap electricity right now. Um, but there is >> again, I'm not only I I I'm I'm
relatively indifferent. I I see Nathan's point. Uh I get where you guys are coming from to be, you know, protective of of any eventuality, but I I don't I don't feel strongly either way right now. I I'll tell you guys a little story.
About 10 years ago, we didn't see the need at that time, maybe 12 years ago, for any kind of solar bylaw because we had the same kind of thinking. who's going to w bother coming here clearing forests and putting up something and that was naive on the planning boards
you know in retrospect that's a no-brainer today right we got we and so I would say buying a year putting the broadest definition of data center in in the you in the um definitions and then
figuring out what definition what what we want to do with it um as Jeff said there's no downside to it we're not prohibiting anything except giving our the planning board a year to be thoughtful about what we want to do.
>> Yes. And and one thing I would Keith in terms of following up which I didn't get to share but when I've been thinking about it I think I put it in my email I've been trying to think about principal use versus accessory use you know so part of my thinking would be we
don't want data centers that you know for this this short period of time there would be a principal use but if you know if there was some home business that wanted you know needed to run their computers or we actually had a business in town if it's an accessory use. It feels different
because it's a pre-existing use on a lot, you know. Um, so that was what that was one way I was getting around the whole size thing. >> Yeah. >> Um, for the intro because anything that's going to come down, you know, from out of town and plop here is going to be a principal
use. Um, there's not a there's not a pre-existing use that they would fulfill. kind of tangential is crypto cryptocurrency, Bitcoin mining included in data center >> definition. By comparison, AI is way way
more energy intensive. You know, it makes crypto mining look like a pinky wiggle. >> Well, and then that but but crypto mining is not insignificant. >> It's I didn't say it was insignificant. >> Yeah. I mean, as far as our town goes, it's I mean, >> AI though, it's a whole different
>> right >> noise. I always heard about noise with crypto mining. Look, um, do we uh I mean, you know, I'm not uh I'm not overly concerned about it. I you know, I think that we have the tools our
disposal to prevent any project that would be damaging to the residents of Shootsbury. do, but I uh I'm not, you know, I mean, if we want if the board is trying to move forward and we need to set a a hearing today, then we should uh think about whether or not we absolutely
need to or or not or whether we can we can we can meet in in September and possibly set a hearing for you know, I mean, obviously if the the meeting is looking to be in October
>> or late September, or late September. >> Yeah. So, if it's late September, we can't pull it off if we wait. >> If it's October, then there's some flexibility. >> I was for the email that we got for the special town meeting. I must have
archived it, but I think it set a deadline in there. It said, you know, if anyone else wants to add >> October 1st is when the >> Is that what it said? Yeah, because it's it's the Hampshire County Healthc Care Trust is Yeah.
>> going up. Yes. I'm guessing. Yeah. >> So, Matt has information. >> Uh so, they're they're looking at possibly September 30th. It had been the 23rd, but they had to move it. So now uh
essentially September 30th >> for the meeting. Matteo, do you know the deadline for submitting articles? >> Articles need to be 14 days. >> September 2nd. >> Articles need to be submitted by September 2nd.
>> September 2nd. >> So we would need >> have to meet >> in between. Can I can I also just add quickly in in response to something that Jeff brought up about the vote that the planning board can't unilaterally
impose a moratorum or prohibition on a use. So it have it would have to be in the form of an amendment passed through town meeting. >> Yeah. >> But of course but there but there could be a decision you know based on a if a permit came you know an application came
before the board they you know you can impose whatever restriction you want on it. Um but but imposing a restriction on use the board can't do on its own. >> I don't think anyone was suggesting that, but thank you for clarifying. Um
yeah, so I guess you know if it's a September 2nd uh it's a it's a hustle. We we got to send out the uh notice like tomorrow. Um so I mean you know if uh if you want to if you want to make it happen you
know somebody move >> well just in terms of dates. So I I have >> we can talk about the dates first. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean just in terms of the timeline. So according to statute the town meeting vote has to be either 21 days after the hearing or after report
is submitting to the planning board. So if it was on the 30th we'd have to have the hearing like around September 9th. So the the beginning of September which and then you have to have um >> wait what what did he say Michael about
the hearing and town meeting? >> So here here's a sequence. So we we send the recommendation to the select board. The select board has 14 days to return it back to us. Um we have 65 days to hold a hearing after we see we receive
the amendment. So we can do it in less than 65 days, but we have up to 65 days. So we can do shorter. The first notice in the paper has to be at least 14 days before the hearing. So that's So if we did say the hearing on September 9th, it would have to be two weeks prior to
that. So um probably next week would have to be the first notice. The second notice would be the next week. And then town meeting vote has to be 21 days a um must be either 21 days after the hearing um
or after report is submitted to the planning board on the amendment. So if we didn't if 21 days was not met as long as we sent town meeting our report which we could actually do orally um >> I got from our thing
you know, in terms of the uh I mean, I thought it was sort of elegant to do the use table and the definition because it seemed sort of simple. If we did like moratorum language, which I think is what the planning board did around the housing development, you know, the thing
we just deleted a, you know, a town meeting this last time. I think that was just more narrative, you know, so it sort of got inserted. Um, that might be easier to sort of
agree to tonight. You know, that >> I mean, you know, the I think the moratorium on, you know, development, Michael, was much more involved because of its as of right nature. I think it might be different for this. I mean, we got that's a question for Donna. Um
>> it well it was I mean it was put in place because the planning board I mean Steve would know this but it was because the open space design was getting considered and it was highly controversial and Cinda's the large land owner didn't want to lose the value of
her land with open space design. So that was it had it was not so much about ANR rights. It was more about re reconceptualizing how one could do development in town and therefore while that was getting developed and
considered and education happening the moratorium was there as far as I understand >> that's correct that's essentially right >> it was a and I you know I just remember deacon saying it was involved to get it done
because it wasn't you know we couldn't do it again you know it was like a some kind of onetime thing. It was there was something wrong. I don't know a lot about it. I think it's different when it's not residential. Look, it's getting late. Um
I think we're in a tight spot. I don't know if uh yeah, I don't know. This is a tight spot. I'm not seeing a clear path to uh to do this. Am I Well, if >> Here's here's an an idea for proceeding.
Um, I mean, we should have a vote. I think I can articulate for a vote what the change would be in the use table and a definition and then we we send a select board and then if the planning
board is okay with it, you know, you and Matteo or whomever can set a date for the hearings based upon that. We don't have to figure that out right now. Um, and it could be September 8th. I think that's our next meeting. So, um, as far
as I can tell, that would work. Yeah. So, that's an option. I mean, I what I would propose is creating data centers as a new use and prohibiting in all four districts. And I think in terms of
the definition uh I think I would use the one that came from datacenters.com because it's it's just sort of straightforward. A data center is a facility composed of networks, computers, storage systems, and computing resources that organizations
use to process, store, and disseminate large amounts of data. >> Just leave it at that. >> I just got to throw out there, the school has one of those. >> Our elementary >> every school has one. Yeah. >> They have a a place where all their
servers are small, you know, but it's there. I So I I mean can we say like except for ones that already exist or I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem but I don't know it's just something >> standalone maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think a standalone or you know principal use kind of thing. >> Oh look we have a latitude if we do a a public hearing to to tweak it. I think it would be good to include, you know, more the moratorium language,
right? But obviously we don't have all that right now. Um, and also this this thing of submit to the select board so they can submit back to us. I don't think that's really uh a necessary step for us. >> It's always been unclear to me. Well, so
I I I read this on the attorney general's frequently asked questions page and they said, you know, like generally speaking, the submit to the select board is done for the other other mechanisms by which a uh a zoning bylaw
comes to fruition, primarily like a citizens petition or another board, right? And then they submit it to the planning board, right? And so the the attorney general's like, "Well, obviously the planning board oftentimes will develop the legislation. So it doesn't make sense for them to submit it
to the select boards, you know, but that page has been taken down and is no, it's not functional. There's a link to it, but it's not functional." So I can't I remember talking to you, Michael, and trying to bring it up and it's like I'm like, "Where is it?" And, you know, we're on the phone. It's like, "Oh, we got to go." You know, and but it's uh I
don't know. I mean, I think if you know, maybe we can try and get a on the phone with Donna, you know, so we can have a a motion to uh you know, uh do a public hearing um and to uh
you know, and for you know, the the language will uh you know, the public hearing will be to decide whether or not uh the planning board will recommend a bylaw amendment that would introduce uh you know, a moratorum that would uh prohibit for one year uh
data centers. Um and then maybe throw in that definition. Um you know, maybe throw in primary use, right? Does someone want to make that motion? And we can just see if we can throw it together. I mean, I'm trying to you know, I I I don't know if we need to do this.
Honestly, I I don't think we have to, you know, make this kind of uh jumps. It's a real tight turnaround and >> but it's uh you know it's kind of I think it's getting a little bit excited over something that's definitely not going to
happen. Like I don't think anyone's going to come. Keep in mind this is this whole conversation is spurred by just a company asking us if we had a bylaw that talked to data centers. A company in Brooklyn, New York, right? Um I don't think anyone's actually trying to build
a data center here. Matteo And just to clarify, when they asked, they asked about any bylaws relevant to solar, energy storage, and data centers. They're not unique to data tunnels, >> right? >> But yeah, I mean,
>> yeah. Well, I I I agree with Michael. I think we should um I think we should vote on it and move forward. We can have a vote >> and we can leave a lot of it, you know, a lot of the specifics to be done with after the public hearing.
>> Yeah. >> But we just need to and we can leave a lot of the specifics as far as like the date of the public hearing, all that, right? But, uh, yeah, I don't know. I feel like, you know, uh, does anyone have the motion? Again, I'll >> motion Michael.
>> Yeah. I'll move that we approve a one-year moratorum for data centers um used as a primary use um with the definition to be data centers or facility composed
of network computers, storage systems and computing resources that organizations use to process, store and disseminate large amounts of information as a primary use. Um, and then a data center
would be added as a use in the industrial section of the use table and prohibited in all four zones. >> You want to add prime uh standalone or no? >> Oh, well, I said primary use, which is I think but we could do standalone. I
mean, there it seems like they're sort of synonymous in some regards, but standalone is is fine to do that as You could say you both primary use or standalone or and standalone something like that. >> Okay. And or standalone.
>> Mhm. I second that motion. >> Any discussion? Could I just hear the whole thing again, Michael, please? >> Oh, >> did you write it? I'm sorry. >> No, I was just winging it, hoping that Matteo would watch the video. But um
essentially, I'm I would that the board um introduces a one-year moratorum on data centers. Um, a data center as defined in the bylaws as a facility composed of network computers, storage
systems, and computing resources that organizations use to process, store, and disseminate large amounts of data that is used either for primary use or in a standalone capacity. >> Thank you.
>> Um, I second that motion. I I do have a question. So So if we're voting on this right now, this is not doing what you suggested earlier, Michael, which was to just define it and say no, no, no, no, prohibited,
prohibited, prohibited. This is >> no >> I think this this motion the way I'm thinking about it in my head is if we agree to this motion it would basically then get um played out either for the public
hearing but in the zoning where you would have a defined use in the industrial section and the use table. So it would be that part and then the definition I just read would get stuck in the definition section. So this is sort of a bundled package that says do these two things. Okay, thank you.
I want to move to amend that uh provided that the chair or uh their design will validate with town council the
sufficiency of uh procedural steps necessary to um bring this uh proposed amendment to special town meeting uh including uh the scheduling
of a public hearing. >> Can you explain that in real language? >> Well, they you know just you know given our conversation about you know the whole submit to the select board and then come back and you know this kind of like okay we have we're not actually
setting a date we're going to hold the public hearing. We're not actually, you know, uh we don't have, you know, the writing of the legal notice because obviously that can be somewhat uh general. It doesn't have to be a specific draft or anything like that, but it's just, you know, making
sure that every all our uh we're not missing anything. If we if if we go and and say, "All right, you know, um, you know, we would need to draft a legal notice, get it sent out, um have the
hearing and submit a report to uh town meeting, right? that those are the steps >> incl and we also obviously have to submit the warrant article to the select board. >> Um >> why don't why don't we just say that as part of the motion that we empower the chair to make sure procedural
um elements are completed to satisfaction or something like that. >> That's more or less what I was getting at. >> Yeah, >> sufficient. All right. All right. So I'll move to amend that you know the the chair is empowered to see that the uh necessary procedural
steps are uh sufficient to achieve uh this motion or this objective. Okay. And so you've got that uh >> Yeah, I've wrote it down. I can send I'm I'm assuming Matteo's got it too, but I
can share. We need a We need a second on my motion to amend. >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. >> Matteo Robert's rules of order. Do we need a vote on the uh motion to amend as well or can we vote on the whole thing all at once?
>> Unfortunately, you have to vote on the amendment. >> Okay. Any discussion on the amendment? >> I'll call the role. Pyrooft. Hi >> Rrestler. >> Hi >> Weston. >> Hi
>> Hy. >> Hi >> um take care. >> Hi. >> And I'm an I. So we'll uh that motion to amend carries and now we'll uh any
discussion on the uh motion as amended. >> I just want to appreciate the conversation. And I didn't want it to I was hoping it wouldn't be a big controversial thing and I appreciate everyone's perspective. It's it's you know
I don't think we like being in these places where we're rushing. The whole idea was not to rush. So I appreciate >> Oh yeah. I'm I'm not uh Yeah, it's it's it's rough to be rushing. Um yeah, but it is what it is.
I uh so we'll do uh anyone else. Okay, we'll do the little call roll. Uh Pyro, >> hi >> Wrestler. >> Hi >> Weston. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Take care.
>> Hi. >> And I'm okay. Um so >> I Nathan, I appreciate your flexibility. um and willing to just have this discussion. And also I just want to
appreciate um us on the planning board. I think um the power and strength of this planning board are a group of adults who who um care deeply about the town and who are sensitive to the feelings of others and who are trying the best they can to make the best
decision possible for the people that voted for us. So I think though even though there was disagreement um I think we were very successful in this discussion and I hope that in the future we can have discussions like this where we don't all agree with each other
which is completely fine which I would say is part of the planning board. We're not supposed to necessarily agree with each other but we're supposed to have civil conversations um and try to represent the people who elected us the best we can and that's exactly what happened today. So, I don't
want anyone to have my feeling is I don't want anyone to have any bad feelings about today. Today was in my view perfect because we've got to express what we felt and and we voted and and we proceeded the best we could. So, anyway, I I I need to say that and
thank you Nathan for your flexibility and your willingness to uh have this discussion. That's all. Well, of course, Jeeoff, thank you for the kind words, and I would I hope I didn't give the impression that there's uh anything I can do to stop this sort of thing.
>> Yeah, this is exactly what we should be doing. This is democratic uh planning board behavior and um results. That's the way I feel. So, thank you, Nathan, for uh leading us um in this discussion.
I guess I can go ahead and add another little bullet to my uh communicate that there's a we can look forward to a public hearing. >> One more bullet point. >> I guess I better get that out pretty quick.
>> So the public hearing will happen before our next meeting or not around the 9th. >> I think I would suggest we do it on our next meeting which is the 8th. >> Oh yeah, that would be the best. do it at the same time.
>> Yeah. The only um the only wrinkle in that whole thing is uh if there's a September 2nd deadline for a warrant article. um we may have to go
with the uh the vague language >> as opposed to our typical approach which is the final language after we've had our public hearing and and reviewed it which is okay but this is why you know you know I have the
>> you know the fact that they're not sending out hard copies anymore makes that deadline mushy. I mean, they're messing with stuff much, you know, if it's the 30th, that's 28 days before board town meeting. Um, they have plenty of time to mess with things.
>> And it did say, uh, if you need additional time, let us know. >> Yeah, I think just give we should just give them a heads up and let them know basically what we're doing. >> That's huge. I forgot that that it said if you need additional time, let us know.
That's great. see uh we can do folks. Um I wonder if I'm even going to be uh yeah, we'll see. So special town meetings are sometimes
uh I've missed some of those. They can be on different days. All right, we have uh member updates and uh does anyone have anything they would like to share as a member update?
>> Yeah, unfortunately I have to leave. >> Yeah, I I didn't realize it was going to go on this, you know, that our meeting was going to go on this long, but um I apolog >> Yeah, I apologize, but thank you all and uh I'm sure I'll see you soon.
Okay, >> thank you, Steve. >> Bye. >> Okay, I've got uh anyone uh else have an update? Is anyone else just going to uh we're on the basically the item before
adjouring? You know, there's no anticip unanticipated business that I've been made aware of yet. So, um yeah. All right. So, I've got one, right? And uh this is this pertains to our situation with uh our our our ad our bylaw
amendments and uh our failure to properly notice Furcog and the uh uh executive department of uh comm uh housing and livable communities. And I know on a a sideline, I think
probably just Matt with Matteo, Michael and Michael and I, there's been a conversation about whether or not this should be uh uh there should be a bylaw amendment referencing the the handbook. Um, we're not going to get into the merits of whether or not that should be
had right now, but I am going to provide the update that I did appear before the personnel board when they met earlier this week and provide a public comment to give a high level overview of our situation and that you know the board is
uh interested in um improving our processes. Now, my suggestion is that the personnel board is actually a really good way to to go about doing this given that the land use clerk is an employee of the town and that not only do they uh
support the planning board and the zoning board of appeals, but also the conservation commission, right? So, uh memorializing these kind of things, any kind of process, uh documentation, that kind of thing. um you know the uh the personnel board may be a good avenue for
trying to tighten up those processes um if anything. I see Michael kind of nodding his head a little bit and that >> that's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> Um so it's uh they've got some stuff on their plate right now. They're trying to do a uh
employee handbook, right? It's uh you know they got some highle stuff they're looking to uh polish up. I think they've you know they're trying to catch up a little bit. You know I think there's been there's just some stuff out there that's outdated. But uh once they get through some of the current stuff they're
looking at uh you know I think that's when we'll kind of go back and just uh you know we can you know we can just kind of provide our feedback if they end up taking up that process you know. So we can kind of keep an eye on that. Obviously now, you know, Mattel knows about it and I think he's probably going
to put some some uh dividers in the in the binder and, you know, maybe uh neaten it up a little bit. But that's uh that's all I've got. Um I want to ask Matteo if uh
I know that there was do you have any update on on actual bylaw amendment for the from town meeting? Last we heard there was a a request for extension to the attorney general's office. >> Yeah. So, u the last that I heard from
Grace was that she had submitted a request for an extension. She was out for a while for medical reasons. Um and so my understanding is that her back from the AGO in uh in September, early September >> and that's for all of the bylaws and by
moon. No, no. On the on the review of the bylaws and the bylaw amendments. >> Okay. So, >> our manual time meeting. >> Okay. Okay. That's so you know things are in motion and we should hear back. >> Okay. Good. Uh no unanticipated
business. Um do I hear a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Uh second. >> Okay. >> Any discussion? >> Well, once again, sorry. Once again, uh, Nathan, thank you for your, um, leadership, uh, your flexibility, and,
um, and to the rest of the, uh, planning board members here, thank you for, it's, uh, it's incredible for me to be on a, you know, with a group of adults who can speak, uh, passionately about things they believe in and for everyone to be heard and for us to come to a resolution
um, the best we can. So, thank you, Nathan., thank you, Michael, and um, it's a great planning board. I appreciate it. Okay. Anything else? >> I'll just I'll just riff on that for a second. I think lots of boards and lots of towns
don't have these kind of conversations. It's sort of like that, you know. It just stuff just goes by, you know. So, I think the fact that we're trying to actually figure out the right thing, >> it's not easy in this changing world. That's for damn sure.
>> Um, so >> I appreciate everybody too. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks uh thanks to everybody for uh sticking in here for uh hanging in there for to 9:30. I do not like going past nine o'clock on these meetings, but it was a
uh we're in a tight spot. You know, we had to hash it out a little bit. So, I appreciate everyone. Okay. Uh and thank you, uh Jeff and Mike for the kind words. And >> did we vote? We didn't vote yet. >> Yep. Let's uh >> we didn't vote yet. No, that's true. >> So, but let's feel good about uh our
process. I mean, it's a good thing. That's what we're supposed to do and that's what we did. Thank you. >> Yeah. Now, uh I'll call the role. Pra >> I >> won. >> I
>> Hasty. >> I >> take care. >> Hi. >> And I'm an I. The eyes have it unanimously. Thanks everyone. >> Thank you. Good night everybody.