[Music] Let's see. We have any audio here? No. Hear you? Do we have audio? Jeff, can you hear me?
I can hear you. I can hear somebody very very uh faintly. Can you hear me? We can always hear you, Michael. Yes. Huckle, uh, am I the one that's maybe
coming in too quietly? All right, let's see what's happening here. I can hear you just fine. Great. Okay, there we go. Jeff, do you live in an old house that looks like old wide boards behind you?
The horizontal ones? Yeah. Um I I'm in Conway now, of course. And it's um between 1825 and 1840. Wow. It's a nice old cape. Yeah.
And it looks like you've still got original doors, too. Um at least some of them. Some of them. Yeah. I'm not sure that one's original, but we've got exposed beams up there. all
around. And yeah, it's a house full of wood. One old Yankee once said to me, "We have no idea what work is in terms of what it took to, you know, he chestnut timbers by hand out of a forest."
Well, then you go out in the forest of today and you see rock walls out there and and I was just walking in the woods the other day and I said, "How could they have ever put these things together?" Man, what what work that must have been. How hard been with no with no tractors,
no no nothing. Horses and oxen and human muscle power, right? Yeah. Yeah. Can I All right. What are we waiting for? Are we waiting for anybody? I don't think we're waiting for anyone. Um
before we start, can I ask who Marty's 13 is just for the purpose of the minutes? Yeah, we do need to know who's here. Uh, Marty's 13, you're muted. So, please unmute so you can let us know who you are. I believe it's Marty Wells, who is a
neighbor of mine, so that's my Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay. Yeah, Marty Wells here. Okay. Thank you. I'm just showing up to express my support of the applications. Okay. All right. So, um I'm gonna as acting
chair hopefully for only a few more minutes, I'm going to open the meeting at 40 404. It just turned two. Um, and the first thing I'm going to do as
acting chair is activate John Airststuck as a regular member for um the purpose of today's meeting as John is the associate and Katherine is not Kathleen is not here. So um
assuming that's agreeable to John, it is you are activated. All right. All the privileges and honors that fall upon ZVA members are yours for the day. I I can't tell you how privileged I feel.
I I thought so. Okay. So, um I've sort of stepped in as um I'm following I'm following the agenda here roughly. So, the first item is election of officers. And um before we get started, um you
only have an acting chair now. I've never been voted in as the chair, so I've sort of um sort of done that. But um what we need is um if if you'd like me to continue as a chair, which I think you do, uh I need to be nominated,
seconded, discussed, and voted on. I nominate you, Jeff, and I wholeheartedly second that. Yes. Okay. All right. So, Matteo, you're getting all this stuff, right? because u anytime we take a vote it's critical
that that be logged down who voted what? Yep. I'm writing on the minutes the question was okay. Um do I hear any discussion about that hearing? None. Let's let's vote. John
I. Michael I. and Jeff myself is an I. Okay. So that takes care of of chair. Um
and by law uh a ZBA is supposed to have a clerk too. We already have a clerk but that's Matteo and he's not a member of the board. But we I believe we need to designate someone at least honorarily
that's a word as a clerk and it needs it needs to come from the regular membership not not John I don't think because um yeah I don't think an associate can be a a required officer of
a board. So, okay. Um, Michael, for the purposes of just getting this getting this done and um having it on record, would you be willing to uh to be the clerk? Yes.
Okay. Then I would like to nominate Michael Pill to be the clerk of the zoning board. Do I hear a second? Second. Okay. Any discussion about that? Of course, Michael, that you know that
um a real clerk like John Thompson actually did all the clerking for years and years and years, but u you shouldn't have to because of uh of Matteo's fortunate presence for whom I am very thankful. Yes, all of us are
indeed. Okay. Um let's take a vote then. Um John I. Michael I and Jeff I'm an I. So it's Michael Pill.
It's Michael Ipill, right? Uh no middle initial. No middle initial. Yeah. Why did I think it was Michael Ipill? It it used to be J, but I dropped that. But that's a story I'll be happy to tell
you sometime. No problem. Your MP for now. Yes. Okay. Um, next item on the agenda is comments from the chair
and I have just two to make. Um, anybody else can comment on anything they want as well. My comment is um it it it sort of swings off of Huckle's case and it's for
nonhabitable accessory structures uh that cannot meet the um the setback requirements. And um we have a a provision in the zoning bylaw that uh
allows these to be done by special permit, which is what we're going to do for Huckle May tonight is a today is a special permit. Um I don't believe we've denied these. And mostly what we're there to do is make sure it's not in
somebody's face who objects um either across the street or on the sides or someplace else. But usually these things are thoughtfully proposed and um and there's not a problem. I don't think we've ever denied one. But the process
is is daunting. A special permit in Massachusetts has 20 statutoily required steps to it. Uh and we charge 500 bucks every time we do it. And we have to do hearing notices.
And we've got a half a year timeline on these things. Um, so I just want you to maybe think about streamlining that process a little bit. Um,
we've done any number of special permits on these and it's quite a production for usually what doesn't amount to much much controversy. So, that's one thing I wanted to throw out
there. Um, the other thing relates to the other case tonight, Mayor Fox. Um, and how we regulate accessory dwelling units, ADUs. Shootsbury had a zoning bylaw provision
for ADUs, which we used for years and years. But now the um now the state has come along and um put ADUs into statute uh in section three
which are the zoning exemptions. And they've also written regulations pertaining to ADUs. And so from what I understand, Shootsberry at their town meeting earlier this year passed a new version
of the ADU bylaw and that's at the attorney general's right now. We haven't gotten anything back that I know of approving it or disapproving it or striking any part of it. So, my understanding is that when something is at the attorney general's
like that, your extent bylaw is still in effect. Um, no, no, no, no. It's it it goes into effect at the time of town meeting. Um, and it's void if the attorney general
disapproves it, then you revert back to the prior bylaw. But it's it's my understanding has always been that it's in effect unless and until it's revoked by the attorney general. I I was kind of under that impression
too, Michael, but I had lunch with Bob Richie and Donna McNichol recently. All right, I won't argue with them. I and I asked him that question. I said, "What do we do in this interim period between town meeting and when we get word back from the attorney general?"
And Bob was pretty clear that that what we what we passed does not go into effect until I'm trying to find a particular brand. Hello. What's that? Um anyway, um their
impression is that that what we have on the books now is still in effect until we get the thing back from the attorney general's office. So, okay. I don't know. I I I think I you know, Michael, you're an expert, so uh Yeah, but I'm not going to argue with
the former assistant attorney general who um uh dealt with ruling on local zoning and with Shootsberry's own town council who represents multiple Franklin
County towns and frankly is one of the best lawyers I know. So, um I'll exceed to their position. Okay. So, why don't we go with that for right now that that we're operating off of
our existing bylaw except where it is superseded by the the new state statute and state regulations. Okay. And I I I I don't think that becomes a problem for for the Mayor Fox case. So
anyway, um, so those are the two things I wanted to to comment on. Does anyone else have any comments on anything? Okay, hearing none. Um, next item, vote on minutes of 11223 and 7824.
I've read both sets and they they look fine. Um I believe I believe Johntock was at both of those meetings. I was and I and I read them as well and they looked I mean there's a there's a
lot I had forgotten about them, but what I read seemed like it was in line Yeah. with what we discussed. So So I I believe it's okay for Michael to vote on minutes where he wasn't there. Um, but I believe we also have a simple
majority with uh myself and John. So, Michael could take the the luxury of recusal or he could vote. So, do I hear a motion to approve the minutes of 11223? I'll make that move
and I'll second it. Okay, let's vote. John, I I'm an I. Michael, what would you care to do? I Okay, so we have three for three on that one. And then the the next vote would be
the minutes of 7824. Again, I read them and looked them over. They look fine. Yeah. Yeah. They covered a lot of ground. Do I hear a motion to approve those? I I I so move. And I'll second.
And Michael. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I somebody sent me an email. I shouldn't have tried to read it. I'll deal with it later. Go ahead. Okay. All right. So, we we got item number
three done on our agenda. Item number four is education and guidance. Do we have anyone in for education and guidance on any proposed project or uh questions for the ZBA? It looks like not. So, we're right at
4:15, which is um which is when the um public hearing for 674 Wendell Road special permit um is
supposed to begin. This is for um Huckle May. And um Mr. May wishes to put an an nonhabitable um shed shed or small barn um within the
front setback which is normally 75 ft and I believe um you're reducing it to 50 correct okay um and that that has been noticed in the paper properly noticed um
I will say that I've seen three email correspondences from uh people who live near you who've voiced their support. Um we have those on on file. Um the board has all been out there. Even Kathleen
has been out to the site to inspect. So, um, at this point, what we usually do, Huckle, in our in our special permit hearings is we we open it up to the applicant to describe the project, present the project. Um, and in in
particular your your justification for for being within the front setback on your project proposal. Okay. So, I'll I'll open it up to you. Sure. Um, and basically I'm looking to build a 200 or less square foot shed. So
definitely a shed, not a small barn. Um, and the location at 50 ft instead of 75 is, you know, selfishly for convenience, it works better. It functionally makes sense. It cleans up an embankment that was already dug out and it's not in the
way of anything else. Um but more technically kind of looking for specific reasons. Um the runoff from my septic and leechfield goes through the only other open area that this could go that isn't in the 200 foot riverfront setback. My property is
kind of bisected by a stream that feeds Lake Wyola. So much of my property is within the 200 foot riverfront setback. So there's not a lot of options. even though I have a fair amount of acreage, I just can't put it anywhere reasonably. Um, and then uh also I think it actually
will be less visible from the road than if it was 75 ft, which would be more in the yard. Um and the zoning uh kind of lists that you know for a special permit um that it should be it would be allowed
by a special permit uh provided that the board finds the structures to be in harmony with a residential development in the zoning district and not detrimental to the neighborhood. Um and in that same zoning there's um there's you know guidelines of um what do they
call it? uh rural sighting principles uh and in that it kind of summarizes it says don't put things in the middle of open spaces. So middle of the yard would make sense from that standpoint and to put things at edges and use existing vegetation and topography to buffer the
screen structure and that's exactly what this does. Um, and then as you noted, I a number of neighbors. No, I've reached out to a number. I think it should be more than three things you guys have gotten. But regardless, no one has expressed any kind of thoughts of it not
it wouldn't look good or wouldn't fit in or wouldn't be supportive of it. And again, I don't think you're going to see any of it from the road. So, most of this may be moot. So, that was my diet tribe. Is is that does that cover enough of it? I mean, if if you need more detail, I can go through, but it seemed like the in the
zoning for the special permit, it just had to be shown that it was in harmony of the development in the zoning district and not detrimental to the neighborhood. [Music] Okay. Um, that's fine. And if you wish to jump in
with other aspects that you haven't thought of, um, feel free. And you know, usually usually with these, uh, fellow board members, um, this 4.2-2 B2
provision, we've done, I don't know, a dozen of these at least. Um we generally don't go through every last item of maybe no items of the special permit check you know the the um aspects of
special permits uh in here what we concentrate on is the finding that such structures be in harmony with the residential development the zoning district and not detrimental to the neighborhood. we've kind of kind of narrowed down the scope of our analysis
with these types of things. Um if it's um wildly violative of one of the special permit criteria in here, yes, that could come into play. Um but most of these aren't. They're just something that needs to be a little closer to the
property line. Um and that's it. So, I if we're finished with the applicant's presentation, um we normally open it up for board members to um to address the applicant and ask any
questions they might have. I'm fine. That was okay. Yeah. Having been to the site and I think what Huckle is explaining now regarding the harmony question and the neighbor neighbor question um everything
seems to be perfectly in line with our criteria uh for making a a permit on this. So I I I having been there and seen how it would tuck into that embankment I think he's probably right. It's probably in some ways less visible you know to the road than it would be if you kind of put
it further out to meet the 75. So, and and then having heard from practically what must be almost all the surrounding neighbors where there's no um no objection whatsoever, I I'm just not seeing much to kind of make this not
happen. Yeah, just a tangent. That business about hearing from the neighbors, that's the one benefit of the special permit. It the notice goes out to all the neighbors, right? Mailed notice. So everyone knows what's
going on and is, you know, can can can comment, can object or or not object. So that's one thing that the special permit has going for it. Michael, do you have any anything right now? No. Between what I've read, what I've
seen, I'm I'm satisfied. Okay. Um, my only question, Huckle, is I I don't believe that there's a plan for this. I mean, a a a mapped plan. Um,
something that um that we usually um well, always get with a special permit and something that we can cite as here's the property, here's the property lines, here's the proposal, and here's just where it's going. You know, a scaled plan. Do you have anything like that?
Um, I haven't like have a survey of where it would be placed. I do have the original survey of the property, but there's not much to locate off of it except for there's a pin relatively close by. So, you could physically measure off of the road to see that it's
the 50 ft away. From all other setbacks, it's over 13 acres and it's not very close to the side setback. So, it's it's not like a uh boy, is this 20 feet or 25 feet or 30 feet. I mean, we're significantly away from all the other ones. So, if a
hand sketch or a hand sketch over the property survey would be helpful, I'm happy to. But the only thing that is, you know, everything else is so clear except for the setback. Um, and then the setback can be measured directly. There is a direct path there. I didn't think
that anything more than like Google sketch the earth and the outline was needed. But again, I I can do something if needed. I guess the other question I have is is there is it worth conditioning it to say it is 200 square feet? I mean I mean
are we okay with saying well it's something around that you know I mean obviously we don't want to have huckle suddenly say oh I'd like to put an air airplane hanger in there you know so but I mean I just don't know how important it is without these without these sketches that kind of commit to
square footage if that's something that we should if I could insert just one point into that um this ties in with whether I need a building permit or not um at 200 feet or less. I do not need a building permit which would be a whole different
process. It would have come to both you through the building permit process and everything else. This is less than 200 square feet or less does not need a building permit although I need approval of the local variances and such as the zoning. Um so uh Jim Hawkins is the one who said
you know you should get the approval of zoning but I do not need a permit. So if it was over 200 feet I would automatically need a permit at which point it would trigger a whole different set of things for you guys. So I am limited to 200 square feet in this application because it's you're committed to that. Okay. Okay.
Yep. Okay. Um Huckle off the plans that you have now your your your survey plan. Um could you to scale locate your shed on there?
Yeah, I think I could. So your survey is because I the pin is visible and and it's close enough to the pin that I can get not survey quality but realistic I mean quality footprint and location. Yes. Yeah. I don't think we've had every one
of these surveyed but if you start with a with a plan that has a scale on it north arrow and a scale and so you know what you're doing and then you you use that scale to locate a structure and you draw the structure into scale too. So it's 10 by 20 or whatever it's going to
be. Um for these types of fairly minor cases I believe we've accepted that before. So that's what I would ask you to do. Okay. I can do that.
Okay. Right. Now, if I was to do that before you finish with the next case and email that to uh the land use clerk or whatever, could we do this all in the same meeting and come back to it? Have to close mine before
you go on to the next. We could just make that a condition. I mean, we could we could vote on it, resolve it, and just make it a condition. Whatever you think best, Jeff, is fine with me. Yeah. Um
I'm I'm a little You know, usually usually you keep a hearing open until you get everything you need. Okay. Um so I'm thinking maybe what what we could do is leave this hearing open,
right? And go on to the next case. Not close this hearing yet. Um and and then just quick revisit this and close the hearing later once we've gotten the diagram. Okay. I think it'll take me about 15 minutes to do it. I I do have a computer here
and AutoCAD type program. So I I I don't know how long the next one will be, but I think about 15 minutes I should be able to email the land use clerk that sketch. Okay. And um so so you can begin that if you wish. Um
what I normally do now is um is um entertain comments from the public. This is a public hearing after all. So we have to get around to the public. So anyway, are there any comments from
the public such as Marty or anyone else? We do have three email correspondents all in favor that have been added to the file. So, Marty, you got anything for us?
Okay. Can you hear me now? Oh, yeah. Yes. So, Susan and I are both here and we're in favor of the application being approved. Thank you, Marty. Okay.
Take care. That's signing out. Thank you much. I think I have uh his address right one of the abutters I think. Um right. Yeah, he's at 12 Ames Haven Road
which is one of the abutters in in the uh 100 foot whatever the distance is. Yeah. [Music] All right. So, um I'll entertain a motion to
um put the hearing on hold until um we receive a diagram from from Huckle. Do I do I hear a motion such as that? So moved. Do I hear a second and seconded? Okay. And I'm in favor as well. All
right. So my video and microphone while I get that drawing for you, but I will still be in the meeting. Okay. So we're gonna move on to the next case. All right. Thank you very much. All right.
So the next case we have is 18 Haskins Way. Um that would be for an addition to this is Mayor Fox. It' be an addition. Hi Mayor. Hello, mayor. Hey. This is this is an addition to an
existing single family dwelling that um that expands that single family dwelling, maintains it as a single family dwelling with one kitchen, but then also at the end adds an ADU accessory dwelling unit. So, that's the
whole that's the whole project. Um, mayor had some survey work done recently um that uh indicates that the addition including the ADU uh will meet the side
setback of 15 ft and I guess a deck will have to be removed to do that. Um, so, um, I guess if at some point you wanted to add a deck and wanted to come back,
probably going through a special permit at that time, you could do that. Okay. Um, but for right now it looks like the addition because our bylaw says that if you're building at the same height, this is no
this is no higher than your existing structure. I believe if you're building the same height and you're not and you're you're meeting all of your setbacks with the new stuff that you're building, then you can do it by right with the building permit. And what
we're here to do tonight afternoon is is the ADU cuz that still requires site plan review and we need to review that that ADU proposal. So that's really why we're here.
Okay. So um and this is not a public hearing. That's the the difference between these two cases. This is not a public hearing. This is just a public meeting. Um there have been no notices sent out um to
anyone. So we're just we're just doing this as a as a ZBA meeting. But I'll handle it in a similar way to the last case and afford you mayor the ability to present your project. Okay. So um it is going to be built off
of the addition. Part of it is uh extending um well let me just start start with this. So the design is um one I live at a dead end. Um the property around me I have
one neighbor below but the the town is my property you know my neighbor um basically um because they abut me on one side. So I I you know I have no neighbors basically other than one who is down below who I can't see cuz
there's trees grown in. So um uh when you come down my road um you'll instead of seeing the lake there will be this addition that would be going from the south uh or heading towards the south.
Um you would basically the road dead ends there and and the prop my property starts halfway down there. Um uh and it would be you would be able to that there's an entrance right there and then
that entrance goes into the addition which is um then allows an uh the existing entrance would be to the current cabin would remain and but it would be now be an interior addition uh
entrance, excuse me. And then um at the end of the the accessory dwelling unit is at the farthest south part of the design and that has a side door. Um and so that it would be accessible that way.
Um and um it there it uh the accessory dwelling unit has kind of a like a half of a second floor. Um and um it would have uh the accessory unit or accessory dwelling
unit would have uh the kitchen um and a full bath and then a bedroom um and a den. It's clean. A den would be the den in the kitchen on the first floor, the bedroom and um ba full bath
on the second floor. The addition would have a kitchen, another bedroom, and a bath, a full bath, and a living room. The um and then um as I was told by um Jim Hawkins, then the kitchen inside the
cabin would be eliminated. Um and um the the surprisingly the survey was correct from my neighbors. So that was a shock to me. Um and so as a result um I had already
asked that the um the uh the the um addition be moved further back. So with a setback uh it basically gives um uh I think it's 17 and 1/2 ft I believe
from the property line to the addition. So that meets the 15 foot setbacks. The setbacks are met on the southern end and on the western end of the the addition um with
no problem. Um and uh this again this would be you know an area for me to age in place and um my my daughter and her husband and my grandson
reside um will continue to reside where you know um on the on the property so or at the property. So, um, and it would also allow me to just have my other kids come to visit as well and have a place
for them to stay. So, um, and I I guess that's it. That's all I have. Uh, I don't the neighbor again, the neighbors won't see it. It won't It really I'm my ridge. I'm up on a ridge. It's all pretty hidden. Um, like I said,
I can't see my neighbors down below. Um, and I would eliminate the deck. So, okay. Um, now as before, um, I have a I have a
plan map. It's it's the most recent one. It was, um, the most recent survey. And Matteo, can can you make it so I could share that? Um, you should be able to if you click on the share. Okay, let me let me grab it.
It's on page uh six. Am I Oh, it's Oh, I um they didn't put it into my approval, but they did. Yeah, but I did send it to you guys. So, Mayor, can you see this?
Uhhuh. This is This is what you sent me after your your survey, right? Yes. It it shows your whole prop property going down to the the great. Yeah. So, if I could just add, I can't
build on that longer part of the lot that goes it says lot 35. I can't build on that cuz that entire lot is my um my septic and my um uh Yeah. I I Yeah. So,
it literally goes all but um maybe I think 10 ft. I have a rock there so that nobody accidentally ever drives over it, but um that is my um the with the um holding tank or the you know. So, yeah,
that's Yeah, I I I don't think we're going to ask you to put it down there. which that'd be nice. But okay, so um let me just um let me just narrate this
a little bit. So the the deck here has been eliminated. So that means that this line is over 15t from your easterly property line. This distance is over 15t,
right? And this is the proposed addition. It has some extra area that goes along with the existing dwelling. And then at the end here perhaps is the ADU
at at this southerntherly end. And how how many square feet is is the ADU? I I think it's 900. That's my understanding. Um
I believe it's 900. Okay. Cuz because that's the new and I don't also know what exactly you count as the the actual like part of it. Part of it's a closet. It's
a knee wall. Like it's I I don't know that part. But yeah. Um well the the new state law gives you a way to they they tell you how to calculate it. You know they tell you what's um interior heated space or
whatever whatever they've okay that they've decided. Um but 900 square feet is is the limit. It used to be 800 for Shootsberry, but because of the state law, it's now up to
900 to be a protected use ADU. Um, right. So, is it the old law, Jeff, that said it was either half of the um original dwelling uh square footage
uh or 900, whichever was less, right? You're saying it's 900's the only definitive number now with it's also uh it it it's whichever is smaller it it right half the size of the of the principal
dwelling unit right which is actually increasing in this case the principal dwelling unit is increasing in size I don't I don't you know given what I saw out there I don't think that's that's a problem No,
I think the 900 is what would Yeah. what we'd be looking at here. U actually So, so mayor, that would be something for for you to ascertain how that was calculated. Um
hold on one second. I'm going to grab the the state regulation which actually tells you what to count and what not to count. Oh, good call. I presume, mayor, that the shed that's currently within the footprint of the addition is going to be moved off just
to the south. Right. Right. Yeah. It's going to be Yes. Exactly. Okay. Mayor, here's how it here's how it goes. Um, and if you want to look this up, this is uh 760 CMR 71
protected use accessory dwelling units. So, it's it's a new state regulation, but it tells you how to calculate gross floor area. Okay. I didn't see that part. Yeah, I actually I have it here. Is it you said
70 760 CMR71? That's right. Okay. And it's in the definition section and it's a definition of gross floor area 7102. Okay. Um
Okay. Uh okay. Um yeah. I mean it says the sum of the areas of all floors of the building including basement, sellers, mezzanine and immediate floored tier intermediate floored tears
in pen houses of headroom height measured from the exterior faces of exterior walls or from the center line of walls separating buildings but excluding covered walkways, open roofed
over areas, porches and similar spaces. um and pipe trenches, exterior terraces or steps, chimneys, roof over hands and similar features. So, okay,
but I don't think we need to get hung up on that because we can condition this to to be 900 square f feet or less according to that definition. Okay. Yeah.
And then the building inspector will inspect against that. Okay. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah, I had a redline version of of that like and I when I looked it up um the
state uh and I wasn't sure if uh yeah, I'm just not really a builder, you know. I I wasn't sure what what did or didn't qualify. But um I think when I
measure like if I just timed um if I just did 12.4 times 23.6 Yeah. See that's the part is that there's this knee wall attic it says
which is Yeah. So I don't like if I if I if you look at p the the second floor when it talks about a knee wall attic I don't
know whether I then measure like the 12 whether I time you know like go uh 15 times yeah there's no measurement for that but I guess I'll I'll go back to the builder and and just say look you know It has to
be clearcut that it's 900 square ft and and I'll let her deal with it in terms of the the um the building inspector. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You may have to make a few adjustments. Maybe not. Okay. Hopefully not. I
I have a question. Is that 900 square ft of just habitable living area, not gross floor area? I think it is. All right. Let me help her. Let me check. Let's hope so. So,
the definition of ADU in the regulations says is not larger in gross floor area. Um, oh then then so that is the that is the correct
definition that goes with the measurement. Okay. the Yeah. Okay. So, Michael, does that answer your question? They they Yes. said 900 square feet and then they said
what it's going to be. Yep. Thank you. All right. Okay. I'll I'll direct that her back to that um section. So, so Mayor, I I have a a question here referring to the diagram that's that's
up on the screen. Um, this area to the south, most of the area to the south on two of your property lines is Town of Shootsbury Conservation, right? And then this land over here, can you see where my cursor is?
Yes. So, this is all town. This here um I believe is is is wooded. There's there there's not a house right there. And if there is a house, it it faces Locks Pond Road, not Haskins.
So it um it doesn't this survey doesn't include it. But basically, if you go under if you go as far as you can see on where it says Haskins Way and just come down, um it uh it goes it's like
basically Lshape. So, um it goes out to Lock's Pond um in a uh upside down like a long section and then a shorter section. So, the shorter section is the one that goes out to Locks Pond, and it's owned by
the Hoskins family. I I I meant I've always meant to look them up, but I have no idea. Um, people use it. It It was a road at one point. Um, where you see Wayey and you guys park there, there's a basketball hoop and
it's just like a community area, but there is a road that goes down that joins Randall Road. Um I don't it's not I mean you could drive through there if you wanted to but it's not really um and then there's another path that goes out but uh but yeah there's nothing there's
nothing there. It's just wooded. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm referring to this area here. Often at the lake there's a there's another house right there. Um no there isn't in your case. Okay. Yep. So yeah, Kent is my only neighbor.
He's and he leaves in a couple like a couple months to go. He he's a um snowbird and then Melody and Mal and Mary Joe are the only direct neighbors down below. So yeah. All right. Um well once again this is
not a public hearing so there's nothing to close. um we just discuss it as members and then uh and ask questions and then figure out how we're going to proceed on it. And we can we can
probably um set a direction tonight. Um what often happens is um um the the board u the board gives me a sense of of of what they'd like in a permit or what we might try and I go I
go write a permit and then we have to get back together and and approve it um what I've written. Uh so um that's the way I'd suggest we um we proceed. Uh if there are any concerns or
conditions or things like that that the other board members would like to suggest. Um often often aspects of a project are memorialized through conditions like the height the height of the of the um addition
versus the height of the existing structure. We're going to condition that that it be the same. We're going to condition that there be no deck in in this iteration. Um,
we may think of of some more conditions. So, any input from board members? I I think you've got it covered. Okay. So, I agree. I think, you know, once we once we were there, the the whole boogeaboo seemed to be that that proposed deck was
within, you know, the setback area. And with that with that gone, it seems like the problem has been cleanly resolved. So we're we're out of the special permit and we're into the site plan review just for the ADU. So that's Yeah.
So mayor has given us an extension until the end August 29th. Her her 65day time limit was up before that. Um, but the board was kind of
running out of time and she needed to get a survey done. So, we have an extension until the end of August and what I need to do is go write this permit up in draft form um based on what
I believe the sense of the board is. We haven't voted on it yet. Um, but once you see the permit and we can make some adjustments to it, add add or subtract conditions, whatever, and then we can vote on it. But we need to do that before the 29th.
And I'm also thinking to be efficient, if if we could possibly get Huckle May's special permit um concluded at that time, that'd be a good thing, too. [Music]
I have sent the updated drawings if it was able to be done tonight, but but I'll leave that to you. Okay. Um well, anyway, we're we're in a site plan review here, so we're kind of free form. Um
let me see if there is a date in August before the 29th that works for everybody. um board members in particular and it has to be you, John. Um because it has to be you because you you were the
member that attended the hearing. So you have to be the member to vote as well on this case and and and then you go back to being an associate as soon as this case is over. Oh, I see. I'm glad for that clarification. I thought Kathleen could step back in, but you're saying okay because I was with at the hearing. All
right. She might be able to step in if she happened to attend the hearing tonight, but she's not here. Got it. Got it. Well, okay. That's true for the special permit. I'm not positive it's true for the site plan review, but anyway, uh it would be great
just to have the the same three people uh come back. Um Okay. So, um, I'm I'm looking I'm going to be I'm going to be
visiting my my daughter who's in law school in Colorado in the middle week of of August, but the week of the 17th and the week of the
24th are fairly open. Um, the um the week of the 24th get dicey gets dicey for me. Um not impossible, but uh I I guess I'd prefer something in that week of the 17th and I I have a
number of assuming it's an evening thing that I could do. Um I mean just yeah I'm I'm I'd be interested to see what Michael's availability is then the week of I have I have I have an evening meeting
at the West Hampton Zoning Board of Appeals on Tuesday the 19th, but I could meet um Monday the 18th, Wednesday or Thursday the 20th or 21st. Are you looking evening, Jeff?
I can meet anytime. Yeah. Um Oh, wait, wait. I have to be in um Berkshire Superior Court Monday afternoon. I guess Wednesday or Thursday, the 20th and the 21st are the best days for me.
The 21st would work for me. Okay. So, what time's good for everybody else? 21st works for me as well. Um you know, late afternoon before uh before a cocktail, I mean, dinner hour. Um,
4 4 p.m. again. That sounds fine. Um, yeah, I could do that. ZBA Shootsberry 4:00. Is is is Mayor Fox still around out there somewhere? Is does that work
for you? Can you tell me the date again? Because I August 21st at 4 o'clock. That's a Thursday. Yeah, I could do that. Okay. And is that when you would vote on it or
you would just vote on I'm unclear as to Are you voting today and then just drafting the language after? Um, if we voted today, I would have to reduce this thing to writing
and and finish it up in 10 days according to the statute. We don't we don't like to put ourselves in those positions. Um mostly because I'm going to be in Colorado during that time. So what we do is um I go off after
getting a sense of the board and I draft a permit, a special permit or a site plan review. And then once the board has looked at the draft, edited it, and we've all we're all happy
with it, um we can vote on it. Okay. So, I should attend that meeting on the 21st. So, on the 21st, you'll I'll get this to you probably in advance, but you'll see your
your permit and we'll discuss it and it'll be voted on that night. and then probably delivered to the town clerk um for the um appeal period the next day. Okay. For the what? Probably the
appeal period. Is that what you said? Yeah, there's a 20-day appeal period where the permit special permit Oh, excuse me. No, I think that is also true with site plan review and shoots. We same thing. a 20-day appeal period where
it sits at the town clerk's office and somebody from town can come in or somebody can appeal it or you can appeal it if you don't like it. But it it by statute it can't be act you can't act
on your on your special permit I don't believe until that appeal period's over. So it's it would be 20 days after the 21st. That's probably as fast as we can get it done for you, Meritt. Okay. Given that it's middle of the summer.
Okay. All right. Um, I don't think there's anybody from the public here to testify on or or say anything on this one. No. So, why don't we We're not going to close the hearing.
We're just going to um we're just going to close this agenda item until the 21st and then we'll get back to it. All right. Okay. So, do I hear a motion to reopen the
Huckle May public hearing? So, move and seconded. Second. Very good. And I'm an I. So, Huckle, we're back. We're back to you. Right. See you later. Byebye.
Bye, Mayor. Um, I sent the email to the uh, I just make sure I have it right. Uh, the land land use clerk land use clerk. Uh, it's a PDF. So, I'm not sure if you're able to open that for
us all to see or not. if that's the case. Um, I did get it and I say I can share it, but I also forwarded it to the um, uh, members of the of the board. Thank you.
May I take a moment just to do a quick explanation? There are notes on it, so anyone looking at it for a minute would get it. Um, do The upper left corner it says, "Note these four lot lines were combined into one lot. Ignore center property borders." Well, I spelled that wrong.
Sorry. Um the uh lot A, B, C, and D. You can see from left to right. This is all one lot. So, it's been surveyed or a deed was entered and it's taxed as one lot. So, it is one lot. There's no intermediate boundaries. So, this is
just the old thing. And then I have a little box in that bottom left corner. And the zoom in of that is in the top left corner. The bottom one is at 1 in equals 150 ft. The top one is 1 in equals 50 ft. So it's much easier to
read. Um my four text notes going clockwise from the top left. The top left says approximately 200 square foot material storage slab for mulch, dirt, and storage. Um that that is not a building or structure. So I don't think
it pertains to this regardless it is more than 75 ft. Um as noted in the sorry counterclockwise note side lot line approximately 100 foot from oh doing these things quickly. It meant
side lot line approximately 100 foot from road. I should have said 100 foot from side setback. Yeah and that says greater than equal 75 foot zoning. Um the upper right corner text note says uh of this little zoom in is less than
or equal 200 square feet nonhabitable storage structure and the last note is between this little structure and the road which says front setback approximately 50 ft from road. So other than my typo on the left side that that was obviously supposed to be
the side step back and noted road there. I think that addresses the distances. Buckle. Are are you able to enlarge that um uh the um Yeah, keep going. Thank you so much.
There we go. Look at that. That's a little easier to see. Thank you. Yeah. What's the Let's see of the um of the the red and the white. Is the red something and the white something else? Correct. The red is the less than 200
foot non-habitable storage structure that we're talking about here. I didn't want to just not note it, but there's approximately 200 foot material storage slab for mulch and dirt. It's not a structure or a building. It doesn't fall under this. At least according to Jim.
This is not like a zoning. This is just like a landscaping thing on the left. Is that a concrete slab? Yeah. Oh, let's see. And according to Jim would not need a
permit. Again, it's not per it's not a a structure per per se. Okay, I'm I'm just I'm just quick going over structure in our zoning definition. Okay, no problem.
Dam, display stand, gasoline pump, stall, mobile home or trailer, reviewing stand, shed, sign, swimming pool, tennis court, storage bin, or wall. Okay. Okay. So, Jim says he's he is not not
going to regard that as a structure. Correct. Okay. All right. Good. So, um Matteo, can this plan be put into the file? This is probably what we're looking for. Um,
can we can we see this this drawing one more time in the less blown up version? I just I just want to go back back to where it interfaces with Wendell Road. Okay. Okay. Oh, I can Okay, I can see. Yep.
Oh, I hate to do this when I have a typo. It would take me two seconds to fix. But you can do that later, I think. Let's keep moving. Thank you. Just the left side, the side setback by zoning is 25 ft and I noted like 75 ft and said it will be about 100 feet and
it's true be about 100 feet, but I only need 25 from the side setback. I apologize. Yeah. Yeah. And and Huckle, the the burm that you have, you know, there's there's a burm between your your location and
the road. It rises up maybe three, four feet or so. You're you're not going to eliminate that, right? Because that's part of your existing buffer between the structure and the road. Correct. Yeah. There's not going to be any
removal of the trees and that embankment is not going to be reduced. Yeah. Reduced. Yeah. Okay. It'll be on the flat on the low side. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I you know um again
we're not we're not dealing with a hearing or or anything else but I guess I feel okay about this project because given that location if you moved it in to meet the 75 ft setback it would it it
could be even more visible. It wouldn't be any less visible from the road simply moving in another 25 ft as John said earlier it doesn't get you anything. So, um that that speaks in in in favor of it.
So, um so, uh h how does a board feel about um letting me go back and write a site plan review approval to do the same thing with on the 21st? We'll look it over. We'll add to it. We'll edit it and then
we'll we'll vote on it. I'm good with that. Yeah. Thank you. Sound good? So, it's not able to be voted on tonight. Um because it's a do I have a 20-day period after which that I can start construction? Um
we don't have um we don't have a permit. We usually don't vote on anything uh until we actually have a permit. There won't be a permit because it's not a permittable structure. It just needs your approval because it's less than 200 200 feet or less. It doesn't need a
permit. So, there won't be a permit. Yeah, site plan. Um, site plan approval is a permit. Oh, I was thinking building permit. I misunderstood. Sorry. Yeah, it's a local zoning permit. Um, so we only take a final vote when we
actually have the permit in front of us as as it's been drafted. So the fastest we can get that done is to have it ready for the 21st and yeah. Okay. So just so I I clarify just for
that process. So you guys basically write for a permit that you are approving and then at once that happens then I can start construction after the 20 days after that. Yes. provided there's been no been no
appeals. Um, and I am I'm going to make sure right now that we do have an appeal period for site plan review. I'm pretty sure we built that in and I'm just asking but uh because it is straightforward and that site plan I
mean maybe a site plan is a mustave but because this is so simple if it didn't need a site plan if you guys agreed that didn't need a site plan would wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute I'm I'm I'm getting too old for this uh I I'm confusing your permit with
with Mayor Fox's okay she's is a site plan review special permit. Um, so with absolute clarity, I say um, we have to have a a permit in front of us to vote on and then as soon as we do
that on the 21st, however that permit comes out, it gets it gets delivered to the town clerk on the next day. And that's when your appeal period starts. And that's why we have to have a written
permit in front of us. In other words, us voting in terms of that 20 days is completely irrelevant. The 20 days starts when the written decision is filed with the Shootsbury town clerk. So, you know, we could do all the voting
we want and it doesn't do a bit of good. Am I making sense? Okay. So for a special permit uh for a dimensional thing like this special permit, it's not that this meeting you could vote on it. This
meeting is to Okay. So So I just just want to make sure we're not confusing the different things that this special permit it can't be voted on tonight. No. Um I if if it if it did if we did vote on it, we would have to complete
the process well before the 21st because once you once you vote on something like a special permit according to statute, then you have 10 days to take final action. It's called final action, which means reducing it to writing and getting everybody to vote on
it. Okay. Beyond me, I you know your process. So, right, that's what has to happen. That's what has to happen. That that would be that would be too soon for us to realistically um get together and do given that it's
August and everyone's all over the place. Okay. Including me who's supposed to write the thing. So, okay. So, August 21st and and I I didn't note the time just because I didn't think it applied to me. What What time would that be? Four o'clock.
Four o'clock on August 21st. And basically, we've already done all the talking. So, you guys will kind of read your notes about the permit and vote and then things happen. Yeah. I'm going to draft a a special permit for you and
we're going to add some conditions we talked about tonight. I may think of of other conditions to put in there, but the whole board's going to discuss that permit. Um, you if you don't like one of the conditions, you can object to it. maybe influence us to take an open meeting again.
Yeah. Yeah. Open meeting. You'll get to speak however much you want and we'll we'll we'll come up with a final language. We'll vote on it. Next day your appeal period starts. Notice on that, excuse me. Is there a public notice on that and all
everything as well through the paper and all that? I don't think so. I don't think so. In fact, I'm going to make absolutely sure that there's an appeal period. I think there is for site plan review. Um
I believe the way our our site plan review forms are written um the the the appeal periods built in. But I'm going to make absolutely sure if you don't have to go through an appeal period. I will tell you that on the 21st.
You actually helped expedite the process today, Huckle, by getting that sketch to us at this meeting because now Jeff can put that into the writing of the permit. So, okay, that was that was a good move. Okay, I fixed I fixed that typo. So, um
Matteo, I'm going to send you a new one and it just fixed the writing on the side that said instead of 75 ft, it's 25 ft by code uh for the sideyard setback. So, Huckle, to to to to make it in a in a more official plan. Um, can you on the
plan say plan drawn by Huckle May? Right. And then date it. It's dated. Yep. Okay. And a scale. Yep. Yeah. And if there's no scale, put a scale on.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Right. Anyone Anyone else have anything else to say about um this case? Nope. Good. Okay. Have a good night. I appreciate the time
you guys take. Thank you. The best. Next item is unanticipated business. Nope. Whatever there was, we've already done it probably. So I will entertain a motion for
adjournment at Thank you, Jeff. I move to adjourn. Okay, I'll second the motion. Okay, and I I'm in favor as well. So, we're adjourned at 5:15. Thank you very much.
All the best with her travels to see Piper. That sounds like a great trip, Jeff. So, where does she want to practice law? Or what year in school is she? She's she's starting her second um her second year. Um Oh, so she's made it through the tough
part. Yeah, she's she's in a very good position in in her class and she's going to be the TA for legal writing this next year. So, so they they liked her writing a lot. So, now she's going to be a TA in that.
So, she's doing well. You think she'll come back to New England? Uh, yeah. I I think I I think Northern Vermont has has a lot of appeal for her. Um, really? And that sounds good to me because we're up there all the time
anyway. So yeah, and she wants to practice the type of law where you make absolutely no money and get your ass kicked all the time by Well, more power to her. Yeah, one of the good ones. Thank I I told her do a few wills and divorces
on the side and and you might be right. Well, give give my best to her for sure. And is it is it Hescoll her school? I I can't think of her boyfriend's are they or am I the wrong direction. Herus. Herus. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Give my
best to him, too. I shall. Okay. All right, gentlemen. We'll see you on the 21st. If you have any ideas, um if you have any ideas, um substantive ideas probably
probably keep them to yourself until that meeting because in a three-member board any two of us are a quorum. So, right, I will I will keep it to myself. Um, what I'm really learning more and more is how different being, you know, it's not apparent when you're an advocate,
but you know, I'm I'm totally a all the years I've been an advocate, I'm totally a novice. So, thank you very much for everything you do. Byebye. I I second that. Well, you're you're rounding out your career, Michael, by uh
I guess so. But it's it's really starting all over again in a lot of ways because it's very different. Thank you. Bye. Bye. All right. Good night. Good night, everybody. Good night, John. Yeah.