##VIDEO ID:Y6lEQ94_8Os## for hey John hey Matteo hi Russ um Matteo you should be all set as the host does it look that way on your end okay great it have a good meeting morning Matel good morning e e e e e e e CH for you there there we go excellent I had to acknowledge that the meeting was being recorded before it unmuted me if everyone's ready I'll call this meeting of the shutesbury zoning board of appeals to order at 11:02 let's see our um John just a couple a couple of of pesky little things um I think I think you need to activate me for the purposes of this meeting and the cases and you know for the entire bit time of the meeting so that needs to be done by motion second vote of the two of you and then oh John it looks like you're sitting in a house someplace maybe you can take minutes I thought maybe you'd be in the car I I was I um actually I got back a day earlier than I expected so I'm good oh wait a minute Mato is here Matteo could take a minute yes I am talking menis right now um and also the the chair needs to mention that the meeting is being held remotely even though that seems abundantly obvious and recorded excellent yes this uh meeting is uh being held remotely via Zoom link and um Matteo is taking minutes for us I make a motion that we um activate our alternate member Jeff Lacy for purposes of this meeting that all in favor I unanimous welcome Jeff thanks for doing this uh the meeting's being recorded all right we have an agenda and number one on our agenda is to review some past minutes um I hope that you got a opportunity to open these and read them the first ones are minutes from a June 15 2022 meeting um I wasn't there and I I know John AO wasn't but um actually ironically John I was I was just attending to kind of check out zoning board but not on the board yet so excuse me okay Jeff it looks like you were there was there is there any um change to these as submitted I I just read them and and we okay I have comments on one set of minutes the January 2023 ones but not the other two okay so shall we um just go through each of these and then we can take one vote to accept the three sets of minutes is that is that um a way that we can do this yes let's look at the next set of minutes which is the January 26th 23 okay uh can I have permission to um to share the screen because I I've already highlighted the parts I wanted to quickly mention Mato can you make that happen um I'll set also um whoever just joined as Marty's 13 something could you identify yourself for the purpose of the minutes uh Marty's probably Marty Wells I would bet and a butter to Russ GCO all right we can come back to that uh jefff I turned on the uh screen share okay I haven't done this in a while oh here we go screen share boom let's see what it is [Music] um hold on oh there it must be down here Leslie do you have a question okay um can everyone see this what I have up here yes it's under unanticipated business and I I think I remember remember this discussion I was sort of outlining maybe to somebody who had asked you know what the principle um business of the zba is and um so here I I said primarily does special permits often around the lake site plan reviews usually for ground mounted solar and special permits for attached or detached um accessory units and that's that's not really that's not what I was talking about um the they're really um special permits just like the one we're doing for for Russ Greco today um attached and detached it should be non-habitable accessory structures that cannot meet setbacks um that's what it should say the way I've um the way I've um track changed it yep I see that um so if if Mato makes those changes then it will be in line with what I U believe I said and and know is correct and then are there other changes to this document um just very small um the the next a couple sentences down do we want to change smaller so I crossed out Adu and reference non-habitable accessory structur projects to site plan review um so that was a question and that's exactly um what we're doing with Russ Greco today but we're going through a 20-step special permit so the question uh that we were talking about here was do we want to change that to a simpler quicker site plan review process um so anyway that's what it should say if it's um corrected along those lines it's fine and that's that would be for um for us I guess to vote on these let's see um okay that was just a reminder to myself that we were going to think about proposing these changes to town meeting in 2025 but there doesn't have to be any change down below so the only changes are in this paragraph right here under unanticipated business so I guess I would move that we make the changes I recommend yeah I can second that all in favor hi yeah Matteo do we have to still do um voice voice votes identifying oursel like lacy I Thompson I that kind of thing um my understanding is that there is still a requirement to do roll call votes okay if the meeting is being held remotely so so so John you probably want to have us do that yep so that sounds fine um let's take a vote on that um John a stuck how do you vote I Jeff Lacy Lacy I Thompson I that's unanimous okay next document um John I think I don't know if you can see it but I think lesie has her hand up there Leslie has her hand up and she has texted me on the side here so I can do obviously several things at one time she's on the phone with Peter geese he can't get into the meeting she has her hand raised but she has neither volume nor the ability to speak please ask Jeff to see what he can do I think it would be Matteo but um I'm not sure why what Peter's um technology issue is here if it's technology if it's technology it's not me that's gon to answer your question there is no waiting room on this Zoom call so he should be able to just to just click that link and and enter unless he has an issue with um zoom on his device um but there there's nothing I can do on this end to let somebody in or not no um right exactly so Leslie the ant I don't know if she can hear me she has neither volume nor the ability to speak no so she can't hear me um so I guess Peter will either get in or he won't um the next document that we're going to review are the meeting minutes from August 30th I reviewed them and found no problems with them likewise as have I um shall we um take a vote to accept these as red so moov and amended um John a stuck how do you vote airu I la Thompson I that's unanimous all right that's item number one so we're all caught up in our minutes now I guess yes it's a good place to be thank you Mato we appreciate yes yeah there actually there still are about I think six or seven pass meeting minutes that will be coming your way over the dribble them in I'll I'll I'll try not to get the Alzheimer's before we review those all right our next item of business is the public hearing on case 24-2 the application for a special permit on property located at 640 Old wend Road for an assess restructure garage that's um Russ Greco's project um as this is a special permit Jeff you pointed out we have that checklist that we need to run through um I don't actually have that in front of me I might step away from the computer and get that um was that something that was given to Mato because usually it was Carrie or one of her predecessors that kept that checklist um and so Mato have you ever seen that for there's two of them one for a special permit and one for a site plan review yes so Carrie gave me she showed me all of the the location of all the documents in the filing cabinet and I've opened the checklist um on this particular case so you're now up to step 10 which is the hearing has been opened great before that is checked off perfect perfect yeah following those checklists keeps everybody out of trouble and I I kind of well we need to be mindful of it and it's helpful if the applicant has it so he he or she understands how many steps we have to go through to actually Grant a special permit and these are all steps outlined in state law that we can't deviate from am I remembering correctly Jeff that we have a um in the special in our zoning under the special permits we have a um list of items that we recite um we refer to and and recite and and see that the project informs um yes yes um it's N9 uh let's see where are they and it's actually in the decision that I've already begun on this project here I'm gonna I'm gonna um step away for a second and grab my copy of the zoning yeah yeah 9.3 it is and there are a bunch buch of criteria um 9.3 D2 and John we can certainly go down those um but but that would be that would be in in the um the the later part of the hearing after the applicant has made their presentation and and um then we've heard from the public it's sort of in the deliberation process these are sort of our review criteria that we would run down but that would be after the hearing part great so shall we um hear from the applicant about um the proposed um request Russ go ahead um okay try to make this short um I'm proposing to place a unattached garage small garage onecar garage I'm proposing to build it within the 25 foot setback on the north side of my property um when I built my house I sided my house in such a way and I didn't have a lot of leeway one way or the other I had a little bit I sided my house so that I could in the future build a small garage that wouldn't crowd the house right up against the side setback which was this is 1980 8 actually in the 87 when I broke ground um which would have been 15 ft off of the side setback the north side of the property two years later the zoning was changed and what I don't understand but what is in fact the case is that the lot was grandfathered in but not the set going up to get my work done as I can I'm not going to have a debate about that now but you know I was disappointed when I was informed that you know I needed to go through this whole protocol getting a special permit so that's what I'm applying for um I want to put the garage right up against the side setback at original side set back when I built my house which is 15 ft that will allow enough space between the garage and the house where it won't feel crowded and there are another number of other issues um I've provided photo graphs um and I and I made a statement that I sent to John and I think was distributed amongst the board about the detail the minutia of moving the garage over 10 feet and how impacted mostly aesthetically but it was a very important consideration how it impacted me and my family and my concept of this project um I've got I also Ed the board with um I went to all the abuts there eight of them one of them lives out of town Lizzy footed I never heard back from her but I got all the other aborters espe uh AB buts especially Tyler and Amber who live to the north of me and who are directly impacted because they have the property on the other side the north side of my property um I got everybody to sign off on it I provided that evidence to to the board um that's it at nutshell I don't think I need to go into all the detail that I put in my original statement that I sent to the board that could be made part of the record I suppose um but it's mostly I would say an aesthetic issue and none of the abuts but the abuts were enthusiastically supported me in my request am I leaving something out no I think that's that covers it that's great thanks Russ any um questions from members of the board oh Jeff did do a site review yeah I was out there earlier this week Russ were you able to um verify where your property line actually is well yes I mean I'm comfortable with it and Tyle is comfortable with it um there was a plot plan done of the property in 1979 which I have I have a copy of it here I have photographs of it which I can share with the board if they need to see it um was done by an outfit in Connecticut that's when Peter Humphrey subdivided the land there was only one pin which would have bitten there's only three corners to my property cuz the frontage is a long curve so and it's the last lot in the subdiv well it's not a subdivision but whatever the the the the plot plan of that Peter Humphrey had commissioned um it's the most southerly lot and so that pin was in and I hired um before I built on the property after I bought the lot I hired a friend who was a survey play in Vermont his name's Henry Lee to come over and site the other two corners the other two pins so that's what I was going off of the two iron pins that he cited when he surveyed the property in 1988 I haven't been able to get in touch with them I don't know what happened to him the last I heard he was you know living in a survivalist camp in Idaho expect to hear back from him I do have you know I I I researched it and I tried to get his contact information I had what I thought was a good email and a uh a good um uh address for him and phone number and I tried cont contacting him and I have a record of that um and I got no response from him just so that he could verify I don't have any paperwork because I didn't need a plot plan I already had one Peter Humphrey had paid for it I just hired Henry to locate the two pins so the sh the lot is shallow it's only 150 160 ft deep so it was easy for me to clear out the the underbrush and I actually ran a string line from point to point defining that North Boundary and I measured off of that and I'm with you know I've got to be within an inch of the true property line so I measured off 16 fet allowing for the overhang on the roof and that's where I sided the garage and the and stake the Four Corners which Jeff saw and I also showed him what it would look like 10 ft over too I had that state okay great any other questions Jeff do we go to deliberations no no we have to we have to entertain um uh comments from the public now the public hearing part of the public hearing great I wonder if there are any um public comments anyone like to share it it looks like Marty's trying to do it but he needs to unmute himself he's giving the thumbs up but if if he wants to say anything he has to un mute which would be in the the the lower left corner of your screen you got to click on unmute you know failing that failing that we could I don't know ask Marty for a thumbs up or a thumbs down to indicate his testimony on the project oh there we go there he goes That's he likes it we can improvise here anyone else have a comment question I think that's it for the Public's piece of this public hearing do I close that um yes we yeah if we have if we have no further questions ourself and the the public has not raised any controversial issues we are we are free to close it and I guess I'll make the motion to close the public hearing back in closing the motion the public hearing excuse me so now we got to do a roll call vote on it uh all in favor uh air stuck I Lacy I Lacy I public hearing piece of the process is closed we move to deliberations so um um we do have we do have several things to consider in our deliberations the first is um is going to section 4.2 D2 B2 which is what we always go to when we have these things that that are close to the property line and it says non-habitable detached or attached accessory structures which cannot meet the setback requirements of this subsection may be allowed by special permit from the zoning board of appeals provided that the board finds such structures to be in harmony with the residential development in the zoning district and not detrimental to the neighborhood this provision shall apply to both conforming and lawfully non-conforming laws which this one is if it's under two acres so um so that gives us one standard um Harmony to be in harmony with the residential development in the zoning district and not detrimental to the neighborhood um for for me this project meets that um um there's nothing unusual about a garage positioned in this manner next to a house and the property to the north which is where the setback line is the dwelling there is I would say well over 100 yards through the the woods with plenty of vegetated buffer that's really what we look for in these things is that we're not putting something right in someone's face right they'll have a problem with it so um I don't think that's a problem um it it remains a bit of a question whether because it's a special permit we have to go off to 9.3-fold those criteria one by one um or not U whether what's in 4.2 D2 B2 substitutes for these special I don't know if they substitute it probably be better to just run down them quick um say the um section again 9.3 D2 review criteria for special permits ah yes there it is that's what I was asking about earlier okay that it's in harmony we talked about that that the benefits of the proposed use to the town outweigh its adverse effects uh I don't think that's probably applicable I don't we don't I don't know that there are any adverse effects the proposed use is consistent with the master plan is consistent with the purposes and requirements of the applicable land use District overlay districts and other specific provisions of the bylaw including site plan review requirements and other applicable laws and regulations we talked about this a little with Russ at a previous meeting where he is right on the line um with properties that are allowed to do this um he's he's just just into the next District which doesn't allow it so that's why he's here with this request is compatible with surrounding uses if any and protective of natural historic and Scenic resources of the town is accessible and serviceable by fire police and other emergency vehicles number four will not create excessive off premises noise dust odor or glare number five will not cause traffic congestion impair pedestrian safety or overload existing roads considering their current width surfacing and condition number six will not overload any Municipal facility or any public or private water sewage disposal or drainage system seven will not cause significant environmental damage due to flooding Wetland loss habitat t or ecosystem disturbance or damage to valuable trees number eight will not cause any significant adverse environmental effects including but not limited to a pollution of surface water or groundwater B inadequate water supply to meet the anticipated demand of the proposed activity or use or reduction of water supply to other properties C destruction of important wildlife habitat atts and damage to Wetlands or Forest ecology D noise and air pollution e damage to streams or lakes F construction which unnecessarily damages the visual amenities of the site which is not in harmony with the landscape type G unnecessary decreases from agricultural or forestry use of potential land productivity H erosion resulting from or caused by development nine that's a all the subsections of um specific findings and8 this is nine will not adversely affect the Avail availability of public services and the capacity of Municipal Services seems like most of those probably don't apply does everyone agree with that yes yeah I think so too what's called rural sighting principle section 8.3 um I can say from having helped write them in the beginning and going through them um quickly that um there's nothing in in this proposal that violates any of those rural sighting principles okay so um usually usually um we we don't vote on decisions um at the same meeting as the public hearing but um we could do that and if you if you want to do that I have a draft decision prepared because I'm going out of commission with knee surgery next week so I want to I don't want to have another meeting and do this if if we don't have to so I have a decision ready to review um with with with you members if you want today I'd like to proceed that way yeah I'm good with that as well okay so um what we could do is review the decision maybe modify it or or edit it and then um and then we could vote on it okay like so I need a share screen ability again I think I still have it let's see yeah it should still be on okay here we go um now all the is is um is is taking a previous decision for a very similar case and modifying it a little bit okay um I have modified our header to uh use uh John Thompson's phone number up top you know oh that's SW thank you yeah there you go so applicant Russ Greco and and Russ sing out if I getting this wrong Russ Greco and lauris yes you're on the appli I believe the case is 24 um-2 I can only find one other case we did this year for that Mato that um usually our our clerk keeps track of of the numbering um and and I generally ask the clerk what's the number of the case and and he or she tells me but I guessed I think I guessed it's double out two so that's the number I've been using as well that's correct yeah so we've got November 8th that's today for our decision yep Property Owners Russ Gro and liselle 640 wendle Road the book and the page number that were given in the application the town map and parcel number that's all down there uh hearing date was the same date November 8th 2024 and the request under Section 4.22 B2 install a non-habitable accessory structure which is an 18x 24t onecar garage with work and storage space within 25 ft of the side property line proposed garage to be located approximately 15 ft from the side boundary with the Northerly neighboring lot and that 15 is from the closest point on the roof not the not the side that's what you indicated Ross Yes okay are you good with that is your Quest yes okay now the plans there's a site plan and there's um a plot plan and they're both the same plan and they they show both the um you know the plot and they also show where everything is going so those are included in the application materials and then there was also building plans that were drawn by the applicant Russ Greco that are part of the package so here's the important part the findings um based on site visits the plans presented by the applicant testimoni at the hearing in accordance with 4.2 B2 of the town of spray zon bylaw the board finds board finds a proposed garage to be in harmony with residential development the zoning district and not detrimental to the neighborhood which is the exact standard we're we're looking at because there was no adverse testimony from parties in interest or anyone and then this a carryover sentence from the last um permit I highlighted it positive testimony from the immediate neighbor to the north was received the only testimony we received was from Marty wells in the form of a thumbs up um so and I'm not sure Marty is a is a neighbor or an abutter or a party in interest or a friend or or or who he is he's all of those things he's all of those things to all people okay um from all right so he is an immediate neighbor what is that across the street or what Marty yeah yeah he's across the street he's one of the abuts um the neighbor to the north is Tyler and Amber yeah they signed off on that statement saying they had no objections to the project they had reviewed my plans as did all the other abuts do we have that in the record that document any place or I sent to John John all those statements from the ab Butters to John I emailed it to him r around for those we can include them in the package okay there's no adverse testimony from any parties in interest or anyone positive testimony from an across the street neighbor to the north was received at the hearing and other written testimony was also positive yeah wait is the neighbor to the north Marty or no that's Tyler yeah so yeah you need to amend that Jeff let's see oh oh oh exactly okay yep thank you okay um and then uh there is an adequate and deep vegetated buffer between the proposed structure and the adjacent dwelling to the north yep the structure will provide additional storage space for vehicles equipment and materials now stored in the open this is actually the um a key one here the pre-existing dwelling is positioned closer to the northern property line so a garage meeting the 25t setback from the Northerly side property line would push the garage into close proximity to the dwelling and intrude on the usable space in the small backyard yep great uh the board also finds the special permit criteria listed at 9.3 D2 are met right and then it has the votes um um being positive and the conditions are the same as the last one of these we did the detach garage shall be constructed in substantial conformance with the site and building plans presented with the special permit application and the structure shall remain non-habitable if it was habitable uh had an apartment in it or was um in any way an Adu or anything we couldn't do this it's only non-habitable stuff and the re uh the rest of this is all um just our standard stuff signatures and um because um John needs if it's approved John needs to sign then take it to the town clerk on date clerk signs and then the clerk holds this for 20 days um and then signs off that 20 days have elapsed since the decision was filed and with no appeal having been filed that 20 that 20-day period is uh is required in state law who notifies the bill inspector that the 20 days has expired yeah I think that's in the checklist somewhere it is okay so there's your permit um and we could we could vote on that and and approve it and then all I would you know if it if it was approved all I would do is um send a copy to John and um John Thompson and um he would sign it and take it down to the town clerk oh wait a minute is there a date let's see okay yeah okay so there fills it in there okay yeah y so uh the date of this permit the date of the decision is is up top so we don't need to put it here again right okay okay so there we go thanks for doing that Jeff so Jeff I um have one question you visited the site and you saw the thing staked out um and that's where Russ is going to put the garage that was my only concern was that it actually goes where it needs to go which is 16 ft from the property line well that's one of the that's one of the conditions yeah I talked to the Building Commissioner and they don't measure that so I wondered I wondered about having whether whether anyone else on the board thought that it was important to have a surveyor shoot that Foundation well I I mean the building inspector the building inspector should always check setbacks I mean they're the zoning enforcement officer that's what I think too but he told me he told me they don't measure um I I don't know where that comes from because when I worked in emest we measured but um our Building Commissioner doesn't feel like that's his [Music] responsibility I would love for him to do it because the idea of having a surveyor shoot that just you know adds money to the cost of the project which I don't think is really necessary can I say something yeah well even if the building ins inspector came and measured it he's not going to survey it no so he's taking your your string line right down the down through the woods there as as evidence of that property line yes maybe it's not an issue I'm just wondering you know my opinion is that with over 100 yards of buffer you know we're not we're not pushing up against any tolerance for anything here and if if that line was a little bit off um it it probably wouldn't make a lick of material difference okay I agree yeah one other thing if I may um and it's no small thing that Tyler and Amber signed off on it so it's their property line too and you know I had him over there I walked him through the whole project to show him I made a point of doing that before he signed you know the document that I prepared right so he basically he knows what it off on the location of the property line when he did that yeah all right I think we can move on do we move to a vote at this point I I would say that we just need a a motion to um um to to uh if we approve this permit we're approving I I and I so I here I'll make the motion I I move to approve this uh a draft permit as presented and uh and uh and amended what we have before us um that's it that's the motion to approve the permit I'll second that motion I'll ask for a vote um a stuck a stuck I Thompson I Lacy Lacy I great that's unanimous um so Jeff if you um email that to me today I'll sign it and deliver it to the town clerk and we can start the 20-day countdown okay right after the meeting I'll um I'll ship it over to you it's in it's in a Word document so perfect thank you I have one other thing I just about protocol I want to ask you sure um as I called the building inspector's office and to find out exactly how I get the permit released because I'm between a rock in a hard place getting this foundation and I've got to get out of here by mid December and for three or four very important reasons so I I have a short window um she told me that I needed a certified copy of the decision which I had to go take to the registry to get registered and then bring the book and pay P information over to the building inspector's office before they issue the permit so I want the first available day that I can do that I'm looking at November 28th is that correct which is the Friday after Thanksgiving I don't know if they're open or not but if they are either that Friday or that Monday first thing I I want to be able to take that decision to the registry of deeds house can I get it before the 28th can I pick it up I mean I can't obviously register it until the 28th can I pick up the certified copy of the decision before the 28th I don't know the answer to that do you Jeff I don't um by certified you mean certified by the town clerk that there have been no appeals I guess I don't know this is all this is that's the sum total of the information I was given by the building inspector's office that I had to have a take a certified copy of the decision those were her words to the registry of deeds and register it and then bring her the p p book and page number and they would issue the permit well probably the certification means the town clerk is certified there's been no appeals I think that's it what I think yeah because you know normally certified means how you mail something but but that's not the case here certified has to mean that you might want to shoot her a quick call up there and say you just mean town clerk has signed off and the fastest way to make that happen is if John can get it to the town clerk I don't know it's Friday does anybody I don't know what her hours are she never um um well I'm assuming I'm sorry for interrupting I'm assuming I can't register it until the 28th yeah that's right all I was asking is if it's still it's still an appeal up till that point Russ yeah so I was just asking if I could if I could get it at least to have it in my hand earlier first thing that that morning I can run down to the registry instead of I mean but maybe it's only a day or two maybe that's all that matters but to me because I've got to dig I mean I can dig beforehand but I've got to get footings in you have to wait a certain amount of days then then they set up the forms for the walls you know it this that's a whole process that can take a you know a week to 10 days and I'm already into December by that point I won't go into all the reasons why I absolutely NE need to get this in beginning of December it's not your I feel good about us having hurried our part of it no I appreciate that a lot yeah I don't I don't know what to tell you about the rest of it I having been in this position myself as a builder yeah that 20 days is a hard wait but it's that's that's what it is that's how that's how the zoning is written yeah all right well I'll I'll direct that question to the town clerk great I think that's our business concluded with you then well thank you very much I appreciate it and I appreciate you Expediting it for me yep good R all right thank you all right what's next on our agenda is um Peter geese wants to talk about a request for a variance I don't know what this is I haven't seen any documents about it other than what I just said so um I think Peter's in the town hall with Mato right now okay and um maybe prepared to speak who is Peter geese there he is Town Citizen and a taxpayer and he lives on I think that's locks Pond Road High Point High Point yeah hey Peter Peter has to unmute lower left I'm actually at the Town Hall simply because I could not join the meeting for some reason I had the proper documents I believe of the number to join the meeting but it just didn't want to work so um I forget the next best bet was to come down here and thanks to Matteo he set up a another laptop so there you go perfect happened uh and I was just asking Matteo I had uh forwarded to him already a long time ago uh an electronic plan of this uh proposal that I have so I'm just Mato is looking now to see yeah I've not seen anything yet Peter so hold on one second i'mna I'm gonna come this computer so I don't Echo so I'm looking through the land use clerk email file and looks like it was sent to Carrie in in early June of this year which I never saw it and it looks like she must have not forwarded it but I can send that out now to the to the board if I was at my computer I could forward it to you because it is a uh in a PDF form and the plan essentially looks like this yeah it looks like a plan it looks like a plan it is definitely a plan thanks to uh in associates they put together very expensive very detailed plan and what it what it shows is um you may recall Jeff I came in and uh I made some landlock changes between what would be m78 m79 and M39 M39 being my parcel where I reside and then the two Parcels to the north which are serviced by the common driveway can we get an address on this on this uh property excuse me can we address physical addresses so I am at uh 2931 Highland Drive okay and these two properties are 1618 Highland Drive and 2830 Highland Drive those are two family houses okay thank you John this is all just south of the Athletic Club on the opposite side right that is correct all right I have the plan up in front of me all right so just to uh put what is it that you want to do Peter uh yes what you can see if you're looking there John if you if you enter from Wendel Road and your first leftand turn is titled existing Gravel Drive Jeff do you have that plan in front of you I I don't have it um is there is there the ability for you to screen share it Matteo might be able to put it up did you find it Matel yeah because he just mailed it to me yeah I'm looking at the email too Highland Drive I see that okay so you see Highland Drive at the bottom of the map in the center you see w Road yep and then you see Highland Drive there's Highland Drive yep you you travel down Highland Drive from wend Road and your first cut off you're going to see uh a road that says existing Gravel Drive uh that oh you're gonna have to that's not the one yeah that's I'm looking that's not the one is it because I don't see an existing D driver no no if you go to emails some tail and just put in my email address NTR verizon.net it should pop up see one June no that's not the one it's later Jeff before you send that decision to me can you um convert it to a PDF send it email it as a PDF okay I've been having trouble opening Word documents because I didn't pay my yearly Vig to Microsoft and now I'm digging in my heels all right well should have on my laptop then I could have just shot it off to you which is too bad this is this is the beauty of inperson meetings I guess yeah yeah exactly and I had so many copies made for everybody to have a copy and then I thought well okay if I just send it electronically everybody will be able to look at it on the convenience of their computer which I know it went out but do you did you send it to all of us or did you send it to the zba account I send it to the zba account yeah I don't mat's got access to that so so yeah why don't I want to just try and do this you want to just describe what it is that you want to sure I'll be glad to do that um uh given all the changes that have been coming up with the state requirements and as far as the desire to U go to much cleaner uh heating systems and air conditioning systems and the like um m understanding is the state is strongly in favor of getting away and they've already pushed this in the eastern part of the state getting away from all the consumption of fossil fuels so um my understanding is is coming down the pike that we're going to arrive at a moment where when you go to replace an hva system um they're not going to let you put in uh fuel oil or propane or things to that effect it's already happening on the Eastern end of the state newc instruction they won't even let you do that anymore so the biggest problem for me all these years has been the same one time and time again and it's the reliability of electric supply to these two properties the uh the service comes in off of Wendel road and it goes through the woods overhead between three poles and my problem over the years has been getting the electric company starting with Mass Electric and now National Grid to take care of trees when they're falling on the wires and their biggest obstruction for them is that they just can't simply drive a tree truck in there or a line truck so I have tried as much as possible over the years to keep that clear but the tree canopy has gotten so large so tall it's getting impossible and I have had numerous occasions where in the dead of winter we have an ice storm or something like that takes out the wires and then I have to call the electric company to come and the minute they see they can't drive a truck there it changes the entire equation as far as the ability for them to quickly repair the system so I looked at several different things and U it seems like the most sensible most economical is to uh make sure that a line truck can get underneath those wires service the trees take care of the the dead branches and everything that's about to fall on the wires and take them out the argument that I've had with National Grid so many times time and time again is that you're here you're taking out this tree branch that took out the wires why don't you do those as well no we can't do that why not well because it's not a problem now and it's not in our work order I said but doesn't it make sense to preemptively remove this which we know is going to come down and take out the service again and they didn't want to do it and the it all comes back to can they get a line truck in there can they get a tree truck in there and so my thought was you know what if I can make this thing accessible it's going to completely change the equation if all these properties go to all electric and we're totally dependent upon the grid to supply heat particularly in the winter months during ice storms and any kind of type of storm events if I got to be without energy for two three four days in January that's a disaster and I don't have any backup all I have is electric heat pumps and and the like so my thought was let's make this more accessible so I had meetings with con ation uh they walked the property I told them what was going on what my plans were to address this issue and uh I arrived at a point with Beth that she said she made some suggestions to the changing what I had proposed and and we kind of got to a point where she said okay this looks good give us your official drawings and file a notice of intent and we will act on it so looking at this uh the way it is the way it's laid out because uh the way the uh electric service comes in and the poles split right down the property line and me needing to keep the service road underneath the lines uh it puts the service road very very close to the other property line I had spoken ready with my attorney Tom Rey about how we're going to do this as far as uh new easements for this and uh he says okay none of that is a problem and the only thing we concluded as being a possible um issue is the proximity of the road to the side Lot line the town of shutesbury has a bylaw as you full well know Jeff that says you need a minimum of 15 ft from a driveway to a side Lot and we are not going to be able to make that happen because of the proximity and sadly enough you don't have the the drawing there but you'll see that the pole one pole is right on the lot line out on window road then it jogs over to uh m79 and then it jogs back over to m78 so the road that we've proposed is going to be very very close less than 15t that's the that's the light blue dotted okay yeah here we go okay so yes it's the light blue dotted uh it's actually no it's not all right go out to Wendel Road and look right at the division between those two lots yep we see that and the and the the power line is the large black dashes that that back and forth across the line all right you can see the poles the pole by the existing gravel driveway is a round circle pink yep okay and then you can see that the next one is kind of it's it's it's it's right where the jog is the 15 foot jog East uh North South yep right to the corner of that okay okay that's the other pole all right Peter yeah can I interject here and it may shorten this all okay excent go is that okay John yes sorry to interrupt but um what did REI say you needed to do this ex ask that again please Jeff what did Tom REI tell you you needed in order to oh well here's the thing the um there there is quite a few permits involved in getting this done uh the the biggest hurdle is I felt was the Conservation Commission but we talked about I talked about it with John and uh the issue is moving forward I mean we're none of us are here forever but uh if if if this thing is done since I own the properties I'm not GNA object to my own own project here but one day in the future if this is done and uh the abuts look at it and say wait a minute this is in violation of the zoning bylaws okay we were worried that you know the subsequent owners of these properties could get into a bit of a tiff and I my argument was well it is a common service it's a common electric service that you know serves both well and then we looked at okay how many different ways could and we always look for worst case scenario how many different ways could one person object while they both benefit from the electric service and then my thought was okay all right let's really stretch it out let's say in the future that um one house has the full capability to live off the grid and doesn't need to get electricity from our local supplyer National Grid then they don't care about the overhead service and then all of a sudden they don't need the fiber optics because now everything is going from satellite or something to that effect if they got into a pissing match then they could make this an issue it would be very simplified by putting it to bed by saying okay okay let's get a variance on this and get it recorded and that way down the road it's all spelled out just as we have with the common driveway just Peter interject once more um um if you look at at section 8.6 D2 I don't have that but 8 8.6 D2 A2 all right that's the citation and it says 6-2 a a okay two two okay it says the traveled portion of the driveway and I'm assum this meets the definition of a driveway what you're talking about here yes y the traveled portion of the driveway that's the the outer limits of it shall be located no less than 15 feet from any abing property line unless either a special permit or a permit for a common driveway is granted by the planning board so we've done one or two we did one for um on on locks Pond um farther down at least one of these we did by special permit um so you don't you don't have to go the difficult variance route okay variances are hard to Grant because of um the very stringent standards imposed by state law special permit is an easier thing to Grant you have to go through just what Russ Greco just did you know public hearing and uh okay and all that but you've got you have a lesser hurdle to go over for a special permit than a variance there is that Avenue and um um it it's it it's not a it's not a typical aspect of zoning but it is part of ours and it's the planning board which I like yeah okay so uh so what I need to do then is file for a special permit is what you're saying Jeff right yes to achieve this yes and and that that will just like a variance you have to notice all your your parties interest around you and uh you have a public hearing um and um you know we we can condition it and all that um but we're much Freer to um um we're much it's easier to Grant special permit okay all right you know we can deny it too but it just variances are hard to Grant so you don't want to go through that if you don't have to okay so Jeff is this a special permit issued by us or the planning board it looks it reads like it's by the planning board oh let's see 8.62 number two A2 it it yes it would be by the planning board so you're saying I have to file this then with the planning board for this yes special permit okay yeah planning board does driveways share driveways roads subdivision roads anything having to do with a road or a driveway planning board does yeah okay all right so then I guess that's that will uh that will put the ball in Motion in a different way but still attempting to achieve the same result and an easier a much easier path yes easier path okay I'm always I'm always good with easier yeah all right and Mata will have the paperwork for that to file that yes special permit application form yeah okay all right very good good I guess I guess we're done I would for if you have this now hang on to it and you can look at it because this is what I'm going to be referencing this drawing would you guys like paper copies I have paper copies I don't need to see it again as far as I know I'm not on the planning board we might be one of the listed boards that is asked to comment on these things yeah so leave a copy leave a hard copy with Mato at Town Hall and we can look at it there okay sounds good definitely do that thanks Peter I guess that's it thank you very much for your time I appreciate it and uh Jeff I guess you're still on the planning board yes or I am an appointed associate member but I don't live in shutesbury anymore okay I heard that I heard I heard you moved out of town got went down to the valley huh well and up the other side yeah I live in Conway you can't move far enough away to get rid of us okay well thank you all very much I appreciate your time thanks Peter thank you all right what else we got here other items not anticipated I don't know of any other items so I I mean in in in those minutes we did talk about um about possibly um doing some stuff with uh changing uh from special permit to site plan review for things like Russ um oh yep and and you know there's things that that there you know for Russ who who lives out in the middle of the woods with with with nobody nearby to be affected it it seems pretty easy I guess you could get other situations where it would be quite controversial um and there could be some real impacts of not meeting the the I hate to do this the set facts we're all going it now yeah um but um but the special permits still you know for for us it it it gives us Authority that we lack in a site plan review it's hard to deny a site plan review right you can condition things you can try to influence it but it's hard to deny special permit you know the if the neighbors are all come well there isn't even a public hearing with um review Neighbors may not even know that their neighbor is proposing something closer to their sideline then and I think that's why we put it originally a special permit because in some cases this could be intrusive uh on neighbors I don't yeah I don't think that this process was that honorous you know um I I hear that he's he's up against a timeline because you know he has some personal stuff and it's and winter is closing in but that's that's true for everyone everyone has you know self-imposed or or external deadlines that that they have to live with um the the the process itself worked just exactly as it was supposed to and it worked fine yeah yeah yeah I would concur with that as I remember back to that conversation you know with maybe amending the special permit causes a little bit to expedite certain things we were even then kind of saying yeah but you know we could run into some issues where it would be to our detriment not to to to have seed them that power if you will right so yeah I I guess you know unless we have some really compelling reason to make an amendment on that I think you're right John it's it it proceeds well enough U that it doesn't seem to be a real honorous yeah I think if if we had sort of a internal policy or um UMO that if if it is a simple case like Russ's we have a draft decision ready at the public Hearing in anticipation of just closing the public hearing moving right into deliberations and polishing off a decision like we did today then we really collapse the timelines applicant that was great I appreciate your your effort on that Jee because because that really does move things along yeah yeah I'm sure Russ really appreciated it too so the the other thing that we have to be looking at and actually the planning board is is looking at it but it's our business it's what we do it's accessory apartments that are are called adus Statewide now access accessory dwelling units and um I I need to get you guys the um um some of the documents that Donna McNichol and I have been working on and how to interpret the new state law right um and and there's more questions than answers oh yeah yep but shoots uh the new state law goes into effect on February 2nd we have to change our zoning language what do we wait to do that by by vote at town meeting in May um we don't necessarily have to change our our bylaw if if if we got if the town got an application between February and annual town meeting um um we would the state law would overrun we would just use the state law yeah whatever yep well there are some things that will stand up in our bylaw and other things that are that are contravened by the new state law like it state law says the thing um is either 900 square feet maximum or half the half the square footage of the principal dwelling whichever is less right ours says 800 square feet so right if if if they they got the n 00 by the state law we'd have to give them the 900 sure and it also says we can't require owner occupancy and that is a yep that that's a shsb requirement so we just couldn't we just couldn't impose it um but the smartest thing to do and what we're working on here in Conway is um is just revising our or bylaw so that we can make it conform to the state statute by annual town meeting yeah so at the webinar that I went to that was a big question from planners around the state was well how are we going to change the language by February when you know we don't we don't have a town meeting until May so that's that's a great answer we just follow the rules and and there you go yeah like like those are two obvious things that shutesbury would have to do I mean um in in in in a major way we're already compl with it it says you have to offer Adu by right and we do site plan review is considered by right yep um all over town so um there are some remaining questions like whether a duplex can is eligible to apply for an Adu I mean a third unit well it it come it says principal dwelling is a principal dwelling just a single family or is it a could it be a two family an apartment building what's a principal dwelling that has yet to be determin and the Attorney General is working on all this stuff and yeah Donna and I just submitted our document to the attorney general the other day with about 12 questions that are gnarly as hell yeah so um I'll send that to you guys so you can see what we're dealing with thank you I think well it's fun stuff for some of us but go for it CH anyway um so the the planning board is is often takes the lead in in um drafting our zoning bylaws and I know they already had a meeting on the 4th where they first started talking about this I didn't go to that um that was earlier the that was Monday so I think our Board needs to get with the planning board because we're the ones that actually do these permits yeah John I see a hand uh Tom sefor yeah Tom sefor recognize you thank you um I just wanted to ask Jeff if he could possibly also forward those questions the 12 questions to the planning board too they have them already oh did you send it to the planning board email I did I sent it I I sent it yesterday oh I'll check okay thank you sorry do I have anything else we want to talk about do I hear a motion to um adjourn our meeting well yes um I'll make the motion after I thank Mato for uh for stepping in to what is a vital role for us um I I don't know if Mato just works for us in the planning board or whether he works for the concom as well but works for the concom as well yeah important thanks yeah and it's great to have a clerk that works for all three and that can help keep us all together yeah exactly yeah sure so with that I'll move to adjourn I can second it and I will all in favor I I excellent all right Tom John I will send you this um in just a minute I will uh sign it and run it up to town hall and maybe there'll be somebody there okay great thanks okay see you guys thanks everybody