Did you figure this out, Kevin? You're going to get me up on the screen. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Soon as you open your mouth, I'll switch over. Okay. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. This meeting is called to order in accordance with the open public meetings law. In accordance with chapter 231 of
the public laws of 1975, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. This meeting of October 6, 2025 was published in the Courier News Install ledger and placed on the burrow's website in Bolton board at Burough Hall. A copy of this notice is available to the public and a
copy of the statement shall be included in the minutes of this meeting. Mayor Gallagher is excused this evening. Council members Terresa Bonner here. Andrew Ki here. Glenn Den here. Randy Pittz here. Gina Stravik here. Roger Vern
here. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Seated. Can I get a motion for the approval of the minutes September 15? So moved. Second. Council members Theresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki, yes. Glen, yes. Randy Pittz, yes. Gina Stravik, yes. Roger Verum,
yes. We have no departmental reports or notices. Uh, tonight we have a presentation from the auto group uh providing us with some economic insight and market analysis as we begin to look at our master plan and where we're
headed. um as we as we start to have these discussions with our different uh with the planning board and and the groups that uh environmental and recreation and all of our stakeholders. Uh Mr. Driver, would you like to add anything?
Thank you, Mr. President. Um I'm not going to use a microphone because I think my voice will carry, but we've got Mr. Jeff Otto of the Auto Group. He started it. He's the chief economist and we last had him here in 2017
and he gave us guidance moving forward with our master plan in those days and because of the climate, the economy and a number of other things we've invited him back and I hope you enjoy and take note of what he's got to tell you. Thank you.
The floor is yours, sir. Thank you very much. Um, good evening. Thank you for inviting me. Uh we certainly find ourselves in very interesting times uh and changes all around us.
My prepared comments here tonight are to discuss the intersection between the economy uh real estate markets and redevelopment trends. And I invite you to interrupt me or uh
ask questions as we go along. uh because that's usually where the most important uh learning happens. Uh just in terms of background, um my company provides a range of services as it
relates to the real estate economy. Um those services include providing redevelopment guidance to municipalities and developers alike. uh providing financial analysis as to the need or justification or structure
of financial agreements surrounding pilots. um providing risk guidance to commercial banks here in New Jersey to help them to understand the risk landscape in terms of lending on existing real estate
property as well as new construction projects um and also valuation services. Uh the topics that I'm going to talk to you about here today will start with the economy because the economy did we lose screen here? Yeah. because the economy
really is the underpinning for everything that happens in real estate markets and in redevelopment. Uh next, I'll speak to you about some very troubling trends with New Jerseyy's demographics,
uh which bear very close watching and suggest that housing demand in the not tooistant future will begin to decline steadily heading out beginning in about five years. and and and evolving beyond
that point. Uh then uh some discussion of what's happening in real estate markets. Um wi with a focus or at least a highlight as to how some of the real estate sectors are performing here in Somerville and what that tells us about
the future. Um, and then finally, a forecast as to what's likely to play out uh in the coming years uh and beyond as it relates to development, redevelopment, and uh real estate. Starting and I'm going to move pretty quickly through many of these slides uh
because I know you're an informed group and uh I don't want to make have this take longer than it needs to. Um, first, we've now come through a period of high interest rates. They're not the highest interest rates that we've seen in
history, but they've been significantly elevated from what they were uh prior to the pandemic. And that's really the baseline here to look at what was happening in 2017 and 18 and 19 because those were preandemic times. And then
since then we've had a series of distortions which are now finally coming to an end. Uh putting aside the the profound and devastating health impacts of the pandemic and I don't mean in any way to
downplay that but I'm here to talk to you about economic impacts. Um the bottom line is that the federal government uh reacted overreacted to what played out during the pandemic
uh and overstimulated the economy in order to attempt to avoid a worstcase economic meltdown scenario. There's nothing political in that because there were two presidential administrations that had a hand in that. both the first
Trump presidency and the Biden administration. And to be fair, it would would have been near impossible to know how much was enough during that time period. It was truly a frightening time. Again, setting aside the health aspects. Um, beginning
in March of 2020, 22 million Americans lost their jobs in five and a half weeks. We never had seen anything like that. It was worse than the Great Depression. Uh it was an all hands-on deck moment and the federal government
began to put as much stimulus into the economy as they could with various mechanisms. One of them being to push interest rates to 0%. And we know today that what was done was more than was needed. And that's how we
ended up with inflation. And in higher inflation brings higher interest rates. they are sort of joined at the hip and that's how we got to this period of high interest rates that we've just come through and are finally beginning to see settle down. What we have now is an
economy which has normalized. We're seeing inflation in a more tolerable level 2 and a half to 3%. That's something that the economy can handle. It sort of paves the way for the Federal Reserve to be able to take the foot off
the brake on the economy and allow interest rates to cons continue to settle down. There's a lot of controversy and disagreement on that, but that is what's likely to happen next. And with that, we're going to now move into a more normal, stabilized
economic pattern heading forward for real estate investment, development, and redevelopment. U the economy is doing quite well. uh we have a growth rate in the economy as recently as the second quarter of this year, the most recently completed
quarter where the economy is growing at nearly 4% despite plenty of predictions that it was going to collapse. It's not h it did not happen in the second quarter and in the third quarter which is about which has just come to a close the preliminary
reading is that the economy continues to grow at nearly 4%. So the economy is doing quite well. Um when we look at the inflation front which is the determinant for interest rates the primary determinant of interest rates is
inflation and the reason for that is that when a bank or any other entity lends money to be paid back in the future. Inflation causes the money to be paid back at the end of the loan term to be worth less than the money that was
originally lent because you can't buy as much with your dollar if inflation has made everything more expensive. And interest rates in part make the lender whole to account for the inflation the deflationary effects on a dollar's
purchasing power due to rising prices. We're we we're doing quite well there. We were up as high as 9%. We're we've been hovering in the 2 and a half to 3% range now for nearly a year. Uh and all indications are that inflation will not
spike going forward and that as a result interest rates will decline. Despite that decline in interest rates, which you see here with the blue shaded graph, we've not seen yet a corresponding decline in interest rates, which is
taking a very heavy toll on moderate and lowincome households across the country and specifically here in New Jersey. High interest rates really don't have much of an effect on more affluent and wealthy households because they tend to
buy more with cash. They're less dependent on credit and they're better able to afford. We've not seen yet that interest rates, the drop in the blue line in inflation have been matched by what's happened with interest rates, but that's what's likely to come next. Uh
and with that um a uh more uh normalized uh redevelopment landscape. The reasons why it is unlikely that inflation will spike again and therefore cause interest rates to remain elevated is that job creation has slowed
dramatically and unemployment claim filings have risen dramatically. Incidentally, I might tell you that when the Federal Reserve starts to raise interest rates, having people lose their jobs and having the unemployment rate go higher is is
exactly their intent. They're looking to stop businesses from hiring, stop consumers from spending, and getting that reset in the economy so inflation cools off and interest rates can decline. And on that front, it's been mission accomplished. We've gone from
adding three or 400,000 jobs a month nationally uh to uh adding very few recently. Uh unemployment claims are are rising. Uh and here in New Jersey, we've actually had job losses in four of the
last seven months. These are not alarming to the extent that we're on the edge or the precipice of a collapse in the economy, but they are indications that hiring has slowed, wage growth will be less. That means
that spending will throttle back and inflation will normalize. Other reasons why it is unlikely that we'll see a a further spike in inflation is that oil prices, which feed into the price of just about everything that we consume,
have been steadily declining this year. Um, we are seeing that home prices around the country have stabilized and are barely rising at all. We've gone from home price increases of 18% a few years ago nationally to today prices
rising at only about 2%. And in half of all US housing markets, home prices are now declining. That is not because of a fundamental collapse in the housing market. It's because prices overappreciated in recent
years and there needs to be some normalization of that. Now, prices are not declining in New Jersey. Prices are still rising, although at a slower pace. And home prices, home selling prices in Somerville are rising at more than
double the pace of what's occurring here in New Jersey. So, home prices falling in half of the markets in the country. Nationally, the average rise is 2%. In New Jersey, it's about double that. Home prices are going up by 5%. and in
Somerville it by more than 12% so far this year. That is a testament to the forward vision that Summerville has exhibited here for a couple of decades now in terms of placemaking in terms of
seeing this as more than just about housing but also about the desiraability of your local economy and real estate landscape. Um and we'll see some numbers on that in a little bit. I will would point out that home prices account for 40% of the core inflation reading.
Whoops, let me just go back here. Home prices account for 40% of the core inflation reading. Another reason why inflation is likely to continue to drift downward going forward. Um, I'm going to skip this slide because it gets a little political. Let me just sum it up this
way. Tariffs are not a significant contributor to inflation. And the Federal Reserve has, and I'm not being critical, has held back on lowering interest rates as much as the inflation rate has dropped uh because of
concerns about tariffs. But the but the plain facts of tariffs, both looking backwards and forwards, are that they tend to be non-inflationary because only about onetenth of 1% of a tariff ends up getting passed on to consumers. And so that's another reason why we do expect
that interest rates will continue to fall. I want to talk next about demographics. Uh we are in the midst of some very troubling trends here in New Jersey. Um and it does raise questions about the
long-term viability of apartment development. Now, that's not to say that the apartments that have been built already will will collapse or will fail to be profitable, but it does suggest that we're approaching a point in time
where less would be better than the pace at which we've seen apartments develop in the past. Uh we'll start here. Um, when we take a look at the outbound movement of New Jersey households leaving New Jersey to move to another
state, the numbers continue to be extremely high. We are experiencing a net loss of New Jersey households due to out migration in the range of 70 or 80,000 a year. That's the net loss of
households. Now certainly the population is continuing to rise although very modestly but the reason it's rising primarily is because of foreign immigration not because of domestic migration. What we're looking at here
are people moving from one state to another. New Jersey has the highest outbound migration rate in the country. A recent study by the moving industry, companies who help people to move their household goods from one place to
another, estimated that in New Jersey, when somebody someone puts their household goods onto a moving truck, 65% of the time it's leaving the state. And we are seeing significant losses in
household population, household formation, and the number of households in our state because it's become a very expensive place to be able to afford to live. When we take a look inside the numbers, here's where it gets particularly
alarming. different from trends in the past where the largest element, largest segment of people leaving New Jersey or people moving into retirement, senior households, at which point in time their
income declines and they find that they need to go somewhere else to be able to afford to live the longer life expecties that we have today. Those numbers have completely turned around. And in 2024,
only 21%, let's call it one in five of the households who left New Jersey were senior households. Four out of five households were households in their 20s and 30s and 40s
who were leaving by choice. This is a significant change from what we are experiencing in the past. The second element here which is concerning is that the largest slice of people leaving New Jersey, now remember 80% are in their
prime working years. And of the people who were leaving, more than half are in the highest income level in the state with salaries in excess of $150,000. So what's changed over the last few
years is that the people the profile of those leaving New Jersey has shifted from being seniors on fixed incomes to being younger age workers in their prime working years who can afford to stay but are choosing to leave. This is very
concerning. This is a byproduct of high taxes, high costs of living, high cost of housing. uh and it's not going to go away without significant policy intervention at the state level.
Even more concerning is that a poll by Mammoth University in 2024 found that half, 48% of all the households in New Jersey were planning to leave within the next 5 to 10 years. And the highest cohort of
people planning to leave are those between 18 and 34 years of age and those are your apartment dwellers in the largest numbers. Uh so we have much concern about this and the expectation is that we're going to see less
population, less demand, less workforce, less housing demand uh in that 18 to 34 year category going forward. Now, this is not entirely unique to New Jersey. It is happening in coastal markets, the most expensive places to live in this
country. Uh, and it's a concern. Now, next, we need I'm going to layer on top of this sort of another trend, which is the trend for declining birth rates here in New Jersey, in the United States,
around the world. uh and starting about 25 years ago, birth rates started to fall precipitously. That continues to occur today. And that's something that school districts understand well, the concept of cohort aging, that when
you're trying when you're wanting to project school enrollments in a particular grade, uh, and you're looking forward five years later to say, well, how many tenth graders will we have five years from now based upon how many fifth graders we have today? Cohort aging.
This precipitous drop in birth rates in New Jersey particularly uh is manifesting in fewer young adults now 25 years later. So we have two factors. We have young adults leaving New Jersey because it's hard to afford
to stay here and get ahead and we have fewer children being born which if you have a drop in birth rates today 20 years later there'll be fewer 20 year olds. cohort aging. So, we're seeing this significantly and we look at when we look at the trends and we're going to
sort of dial this into Somerville in a moment. When we look at the trends, you know, the population of 15 to 19 year olds has declined by nearly half uh compared to what it was just 10 years ago. This manifests in public school
enrollments. This manifests in workforce, people entering the workforce and whether a company can find the talent that it needs and wants to be able to continue to locate in a place. Uh this manifests in reduced housing
demand as those young people create that drop in the population of 20 year olds and 30 year olds. Now when we take a look at this um just want to get past this. we take a look at this in terms of population by age cohort. Uh what you
see over here on the left is New Jersey and what you see here on the right is Somerville. Um and what I'd like to to focus in on with you is that in New Jersey on the left, uh 12 a.5% of the population is between the ages of 35 and
44. But in New in Somerville that jumps to nearly 19%. That is a direct result of the redevelopment efforts that have gone on here downtown which have created both purchase and rental housing. A
significant part of that being the rental housing market. Uh that young people find this to be a vibrant and desirable place to live in. Uh and so there are there is the success uh firsthand uh and the demand for the
apartment product projects uh communities that have been built here in your town. But when you look to the left of that, you can see very low numbers of people coming up in the 10 to 14, 15 to 19, 20 to 24 year old age cohorts. Which
means that in order for the existing apartment properties to continue to be successful, and they are very successful here in Somerville, more successful than at the state level, in order for that to continue, and in order for future
younger age households to want to come to live in Somerville so that additional development can happen, uh you you'll need to continue to engage in creative placemaking here and have a very f a forward vision on the things that will
make Somerville a place of choice for younger age households going forward. And uh I talk a lot about younger age households, but they are the driver for everything. If younger age households aren't moving into a into a place, the retail businesses starve, they die, they
fail. If younger age households are not coming in to move into modern uh amenitized apartments, older age families, households that have a house that they want to sell because they want to move on in their lives, they don't have someone to sell it to. Uh and so placem the placement, while the
placemaking that you've done has been successful, uh there'll need to be more of it going forward because the challenges will remain. Uh here's some startling numbers. Um, here in New Jersey today,
72% of all households are childless. And in Somerville, it's 74%. 74% of all housing units, whether it's a home, an apartment, a town home, a
condominium, a group home, 74%, three out of every four households have no children. That's the result of those birth rate declines that I was talking about earlier. Um and um it is why uh
apartment living, one of the reasons why apartment living has become so popular here in our state. Uh because if it's only one or two persons living together in a household, you don't really have a need. You may have a want, but you don't really have a need for a three-bedroom
or a fourbedroom house. Uh and so these are concerning numbers and there's no sign that it will change going forward. uh by our projections um within a 25 mile radius of New York City and we're
just on the cusp of that here as the crow flies uh there will be a decline of 112,000 households between the ages of 25 and 34 five years from now and those are your apartment dwellers.
uh and so we need to think carefully about future development here and uh how much will be sustainable and also how creative you'll need to be in terms of uh continuing to engage in the placemaking that you've done to this
point. Now certainly the immigrant population is a significant driver of housing demand in New Jersey and you can see here that New Jersey has a much higher immigrant population than exists nationally. Uh 24%
of all households in New Jersey were foreign born compared to only 14% nationally. Uh but when we take a look at the income profile of those households living in New Jersey who
immigrated here from another country, they are with the exception of those originating from India which have the highest household income in New Jersey. The other other countries of origin, people who've come from other places are
challenged economically. They have much lower income levels. They work in jobs that don't pay as much money and can't afford the price and cost of housing in Somerville and in other places. And so
we do need to focus on certainly providing affordable housing for uh foreignb born households and all households who are challenged. Uh but the redevelopment that we see going on with top of the market rents and the very high housing prices in Somerville
which are appreciating faster than the rest of the state um those are not affordable to the vast majority of immigrant households and that makes these demographic trends all the more significant. I want to talk a little bit about the
forale housing market next. We are in the process of transitioning to what we would describe as a more balanced housing market. And that's a housing market where most houses sell for less than asking price rather than more than asking price. That shift has already
happened. And it will continue to play out going forward as buyers take more and more control of negotiating selling prices for housing. Uh and so this transition, this resetting of the market is something that we'll see play out. Uh
interest rates remain pretty high here. And you can see here the blue is showing you the drop in inflation, which should have triggered a corresponding drop in interest rates, but the red line is the 30-year fixed rate mortgage. We've not seen it yet, but it is coming and we are going to see that over the next couple
of years. We have seen a very modest decline in 30-year fixed rate mortgage rates from about 7.8 8 to 6.3% which has essentially put about 70,000 of purchasing power into a firsttime buyer's pocket. In other words, if you
buy a house today with interest rates low only one and a half percentage points lower than they were before, it's the equivalent to you of paying 70,000 less for the same house. or you can afford to spend 70,000 more without any
increase in your monthly housing expense. And so what we expect to see happen next is that there will be this recovery in the number of home sales occurring in New Jersey. I should say that while home prices have done very well, we're only selling about half as
many homes as we used to sell in New Jersey. And that's principally because high interest rates have distorted the market where the vast majority of home buyers, particularly first-time buyers, starter home buyers have not been able to afford with the elevated interest rates. Once again, that is precisely the
Federal Reserve's intent when they start to to raise interest rates. Um, I'm going to skip through this uh because uh and just move to the point that we're now seeing that the number of houses on the market is now steadily increasing. Did we lose screen
there? There it is. We're seeing that the number of houses are increasing steadily, those that are on the market. This is that indicator that we're heading to a more balanced time in the housing market. A year ago, three out of every four homes was selling for more than asking price because there was nothing else for
buyers to be able to choose from. Today, we're seeing that only about one in three houses are selling for more than asking price. Two and three are selling for less than asking price. uh and we expect to see this inventory climb and uh home price increases slow
dramatically going forward. You know, on the subject of home prices, uh home prices in New Jersey are rising right now at a 5% pace in 2025, down significantly from where they were rising five years ago during the
pandemic. That was quite unprecedented. Normally when there's an economic crisis, home prices decline. Uh this time we saw home prices rise dramatically. Uh and we slowed now to 5% which is the long-term 75-year average
here in New Jersey. Uh and we expect this to be less and less in the coming years with the strong possibility of interest of home price declines starting in three or four years from now. uh nothing dramatic but haircuts in home
prices we expect to see a few years out. Um on the affordability front uh we can see that statewide in New Jersey someone earning median income can only has 69% of the income needed to be able to
qualify to buy a first a medianriced house. Uh in Somerville, it's even a little lower, 66% uh affordability ratio here in Somerville. Um and what that means is with homes, the median home price this
year in Somerville is $573,000. The median household income is $105,000. So homes in Somerville are selling for nearly six times one year of income. and um and only two out of three people
living here can afford those prices. Uh and so that's another reason why we expect to see a slowdown. Um here you can see that home prices in Somerville through September 30th of this year, trailing 12-month period uh have risen
by 12 and a half% that's compared to 5% for the rest of the state. So Somerville is outperforming the state of New Jersey. Um but even here we start to see some indicators. For example, back um
I'm sorry it'll be on the next slide. Back uh at the beginning of the year um there was uh one buyer for every one seller. And today there is um there are there are there are two sellers for
every one buyer. And so the market is softening and that's why we think that home prices will rise a lot slower. Um, I just want to dip my toes a little bit into what's happening in investment property and uh what we're going to look at here tonight is what's happening in
the apartment market locally here in Somerville. Uh what's happening with the office building market and what's happening in the retail market. Take a we'll start with um we'll start with what's going on here uh in the multif
family market. Uh, and I know there's it's hard to sort of pick this up, but on the left side of the screen is Somerset County and on the right side of the screen is Somerville. Um, and you know, the the vacancy rates are rising across Somerset County and falling here
in Somerville. And what that means is that uh tenants um households who are looking for a place to rent apartment are finding Somerville to to be a a first choice um a most desirable place to locate. Um and when we look at rents
uh the rents in Somerville are virtually identical to what they are in Somerset County on an average basis. uh that would not have been true 10 years ago or 15 years ago or 20 years ago, but it is
true today. Uh and so the the the market for apartment development here in Somerville continues to be very strong in the present tense. Uh when we take a look at what's going on in the office market, once again, Somerville is outperforming
outperforming Somerset County. Uh the availability rate in Somerset County, which is the percentage of office space which is looking for a tenant to occupy it, is at about 20% and in Somerville it's less than 2%.
That's outstanding. Uh it is the lowest office vacancy rate in the state. Now to be fair, there hasn't been a lot of it that's been constructed in recent years. It doesn't have the volume of office space that would exist let's say in Bridgewater. So it's a smaller universe.
Uh but it's performing extremely well. Uh and um it the the space that is available is being filled while the while the amount of vacant space in Somerset County is increasing. Uh so once again a very good performance
measure for office space. Uh I want to talk next about retail uh because retail is uh such a critical component to your economic and real estate landscape here in Somerville. Um retail has been the big surprise in real estate markets over
the last five years. Uh many were expecting that demand for retail space would collapse with the e-commerce shopping model that had become so prevalent and continues to grow in scope today. And the expectation five years
ago that many were forecasting which was that retail space would need to be vacated. It would need to be torn down. It would need to be redeveloped into something else. That did not happen. And the reason it did not happen is that the tenency, the tenant mix in retail space
has changed dramatically over the last 5 to 10 years. 10 years ago and even five years ago, retail spaces were filled with retailers selling physical goods and those are the things that can be acquired alternatively from the internet
without needing to go out and shop. And what we've seen today is that retail tendency has been curated, recurr uh to include services and food and restaurants. And certainly that's something that you understand very well
here in Somerville with the number of restaurants per capita being at the top of the list here in New Jersey. Uh and so the retail landscape has changed. I do want to make you aware of the next change that's coming though. And the next change that's coming is that here
in New Jersey, liquor consumption is the and in New Jersey and in the United States, liquor liquor consumption is at an 86-year low. Young people don't drink. Now, understand, as I told you earlier,
young households are the driver of your e of everyone's economic engine. They determine whether or not redevelopment plan is successful or not. Young people just don't drink anymore. The effects of this are far-reaching.
They are now tearing out vineyards in California and replacing them with ordinary agricultural crops because the market has collapsed. What this means is that going forward, restaurants with liquor licenses will be
less important to your economic future than they have in the past. Part of this is a lifestyle choice. Part of this is an economic choice. Part of this is a health choice.
Part of this is cannabis which is an alternative to alcohol consumption. And then another part of this are some of the drugs which are being taken for weight loss which not only eliminate your desire for food but your desire for
alcohol. So this will be something to think about going forward. Uh that uh restaurants with liquor licenses will be less successful and less important. uh and um eeries uh offering uh
interesting eclectic ethnic types of foods will become more and more important and that's something that you already understand here because you have that landscape here today. Uh and so we should take a look at that. When we take a look at the retail market um in Somerset County vacancies at 5% in
Somerville it's only 3%. That's quite impressive. Uh, and so, um, the retail is a vibrant part of Somerville's desiraability. Uh, and, um, I must say watching, uh, what you do here in Somerville to
promote your, uh, downtown retail uh, businesses is, uh, exemplary, is a model that many should follow. Uh, and my my my advice to you would be to stay on that, continue to do that because they are the lifeblood.
Um, we're going to move next into a little bit of a forecast. Uh, just to take a look at what we think is going to happen here. Um, Wall Street is ecstatic with what's going on in the country and they feel that businesses are going to
be wildly profitable in the near future. And that's why stock prices go up. Stock prices go up because investors say, "I think that company is going to make more money and be more profitable, and I want to buy a stake in that." Consumers are feeling very pessimistic. They're
feeling very challenged. Uh, and that challenge largely has to do with high costs, high grocery costs. Uh, sure, gasoline prices have come down a little bit, but they're still awfully expensive. Grocery prices aren't going up as fast as they were, but they
haven't come down. uh consumers are very sensitive to affordability and that's concerning to New Jersey because we are one of the two or three least affordable places to be. Uh and so we're going to need to spend
some time here. You can't do it at the at the municipal level, but we do need some policymaking to start to address this at the state level. This very low consumer confidence portends that there's going to be quite a shakeup in the midterm elections next
year because that's what drives election results. In terms of what's likely to play out here going forward, um a recession, an inflation spike is highly unlikely and a recession is not impossible because we
certainly live in stressful, unpredictable times, perhaps like never before. Uh but neither of those is the base expectation, meaning that inflation will spike and interest rates will go up or that we'll see a recession. Not very
likely. And what is likely is that we'll see steady declines in interest rates which will be generally beneficial to real estate markets. Um in the housing market um we expect that the number of houses selling will increase significantly that buying demand will
rise uh and that rental demand will be sustainable in the near term. There is really no risk of a collapse in the rental market. As I said earlier, there is concern at a statewide level that the
trends with outbound migration and the trends with the decline in the number of 20 year olds and 30 year olds will have negative repercussions on apartment demand. But Somerville so far is outpacing what's happening at the state
level and you do have the ability to continue to do that. My message there there is your you're well done but your work is not done. There's more to do here in terms of planning for Somerville's future vibrancy. Um in terms of what we see in the future for
housing, you know, costs and taxes and affordability are an issue here and that's why the overwhelming majority of apartment projects being constructed seek financial agreements with pilots and abatements and things of that
nature. That's not likely to change. Um, if we go from the start of the pandemic to today, rents are up by 30%. But the cost of construction is up by 40%. And pilots are one of the ways to
bridge that gap. Uh, and so these are long-term trends that are not likely to go away. Um uh the Supreme Court um took a very uh strong stance on um mandating and
encouraging towns to build affordable housing. And the principal way that that affordable housing has been constructed uh is inside of inclusionary projects. which means that if you um if you um
intend to build 100 affordable housing units, you need to build 500 units in order to get your 20% set aside to create your thousand units. Uh and in some towns it's around three quota of a thousand
affordable housing units, which means that some suburban towns have had to figure out a way to permit 5,000 rental apartments. Um, we need more diversification in the landscape of how we create affordable housing. Uh,
because if the only way that's going to happen is by overbuilding apartment markets, it's going to have adverse repercussions. That's an int that's a comment that's that's intended more for suburban towns, drivable suburban towns,
and less so for commutable towns with vibrant downtown districts. Uh but I fear that we're getting too much on that in most suburban places. Uh demographics, we've talked about placemaking certainly matters. You understand that? Well, we expect that
home prices will drift slightly higher and likely start to decline in a few years. Not because of some fundamental crisis, but just because home prices have gone up more than salaries. And in history, every time that's happened, there has been a trimming back that
eventually occurred so that house prices matched what people can afford and banks are willing to lend. And so we do think that that's going to happen, not now, not next year, probably not the year after, but sometime within the next five years. Um, the last thing I want to say
is that we are all watching the politics play out in New York City. uh I take a I I I I draw a very bold line that I don't engage in political talk in these types of conversations. So what I say next is
not intended to say somebody's right and somebody's wrong or someone has a better concept or a better better uh better idea of how to run things or than another. But I will tell you that your our economy in New Jersey and
Somerville's economy and real estate landscape in New Jersey is joined at the hip with what's going on in New York City. Uh and if we were to reach a point and what's said in political campaigns
usually is not what actually plays out in terms of policy. That's not the way it turned out this time in the most recent presidential election. But usually things that are said are just talk and don't actually become policy. But we do need to watch what's going on
in New York City because if large employers were to make the decision that they no longer want to be located there, there would be a drop in real estate values and real estate demand all across the northern half of New Jersey. and it
would arrive here on the train lines. So, it is something for us to keep a careful watch on. Uh couple of just quick wrapups here in terms of uh some projections. We think that unemployment continues to drift higher here in New Jersey today. We have one of the highest
unemployment rates in the country uh at 5% and we expect it to start to uh get up to five and a half, 5.6, 5.7 by the end of next year. Um that that's not because we're doing a bad job here. It's because the Federal Reserve is
attempting to cause that to to happen. Uh and because New Jersey is a high-cost state, um we're a bit more on a tight rope than other places might be. And nationally, we expect for that to rise as well, but nothing that would be alarming. Unemployment rates in the five
to 6% range are not a crisis. They're higher than they were, but over the long term, they're certainly sustainable and they don't cause house uh real estate corrections. Um we expect that uh 30-year fixed rate mortgages will
decline from 6.3% today uh down to 5% by the end of next year. Uh that puts us in a more normal range historically. uh and it will bring with it a significant improvement in housing home purchase affordability.
Um in the housing market, we expect that the number of houses selling will rise and that home price increases will slow. We've talked about that. And in the investment property markets, we see nothing but blue skies going forward over the next several years. Uh this
would include uh apartment properties and uh office buildings uh retail space uh and and to a large extent industrial warehousing as well which is less of a factor here in downtown Somerville. Uh but we expect that the investment
property markets are going to perform quite well that value appreciation will accelerate that rents will go higher uh and that trading volume will improve. Those are the prepared comments that I brought and I would love any questions that you might have for me.
Council Andrew, uh certainly uh my concerns uh uh also center around um apartments versus condominium complexes and town houses. um you you really didn't say much about
that, but I think there's a senior market that's looking to stay in home ownership that might appreciate town homes and condominiums as opposed to apartments. Um I also think it's a a good first uh home for for young people who want more value in in in their
appreciation in their dollar. Uh any comments on that? Yeah, I do. Uh so I agree with you completely. That was that housing diversification that I talked about that the new product we build um should be occur in multiple sectors rather than any one sector. Um
condominium development and and by condominium I'm talking about a building that looks like apartment flats but they're owned. Um it's a it's difficult to make that type of a project work here in New Jersey for a wide range of
reasons. And so, um, condominium flats to be built and purchased, um, are are are probably not going to be viable. Uh, they're not viable today and or in most cases are not viable and they're going to be difficult going forward. There's a whole lot of reasons. There's a lot of
trouble with getting insurance policies for those. Banks are very reluctant to lend on those. uh the transition period where you transition control of the home ownership association from the builder to the homeowners is problematic,
chaotic and very expensive. And so uh it's my view that um in that style of housing layered flats uh that apartments are really the better choice there. Having said that, inside of apartments,
uh there is a significant opportunity for senior targeted apartments, apartments which are limited to occupancy by households which are 55 years and older. Um, and because fewer
retirees are wanting to leave New Jersey, and because Somerville offers a lifestyle, which is not reproducible in very many other places, uh, that becomes a a housing component
that would be worth considering. Now, apartments that are built for senior households need to have different design characteristics, right? The apartment size would generally need to be larger than you would build in an all age. So instead of a one-bedroom apartment being
700 or 800 square feet, it needs to be larger in size and the amenity package would be different and the fit and finish, the quality of construction in many cases isn't quite as elaborate. Uh but that is a very interesting component
and Somerville has the lifestyle here that would be attractive there. Um, townhouse development is uh that can be either the first step, the first rung on the ladder to be able to enter into home ownership or it can be the step down to
the to the bottom rung again for households who've raised their families and they no longer need a yard and three or four bedrooms and would like to move into something that's um that's uh a little less maintenance, perhaps less cost and uh offers them uh
accessibility, which of course you have here. Uh so that would be uh certainly something that will become increasingly viable as interest rates start to come down. I agree with you there there should be more diversification. So, in the regards to the liquor
consumption and the and the decrease in that as far as a future forecast, what um I know that you praise some of the things that we're already doing now, but in addition to what we're doing now, what else could we be doing in that front as far as being perhaps more
specific about the types of businesses to encourage? I would need to review your your current zoning and your redevelopment plan to to understand what the particulars are there. Um but but the the goal the objective here would be
to increase that presence uh nonliquicensed restaurants and you already have your more than your fair share of those. The goal would be to to increase that. um they're more affordable to uh to build, to
occupy, to create. There's not that liquor license element that's involved. The insuranceances are less. Um and um but I can't give you specifics without taking a look at your redevelopment. Gotcha. Yeah. I was just curious if there was a way to connect that to the
encouraging some of those younger people to be here as well, if there was something specific that might uh harness them. Go ahead. Um there is u a new trend of liquor stores that only sell zero proof
alcohols and and things like that. So if you if going along with that trend, if you wanted to attract those um non-drinkers um encouraging one of those businesses to open, there's a successful one right
now in Chester, New York or New Jersey, excuse me. Thank you. Um, no. I I don't have any questions. It was a very thorough presentation. I appreciate you being here. Thank you. Thank you, Council. Uh, I just want to piggyback on one of the questions I know that uh that Glenn
was asking. As far as placemaking, you know, you you put a lot of emphasis on that. Um, what what do we find the most successful placemaking to be as far as what drives desire. That's an area you highlighted that we need to continue on.
Um, we talked a little bit about obviously non-alcoholic, but what are what are things that drive people to come and and want to spend time in in a location? Um, the key ingredient is to have a synergy
between the different types of retail uses that are in a place. Uh and so certainly food is one of them, but services are very important as well. Uh from spas and day spas which go beyond
uh a nail salon or a hair salon and offer that sort of immersive experience. Um it's those types of uses uh which make Somerville a destination to come to and while you're there coming
into a day spa for example to be able to spend an hour before and an hour after a reason to come early and stay late uh which is generally uh the the mantra for successful downtown redevelopments is to be able to have that synergy a wide
range of use types. Um, since we we have this on the table and it's a discussion item, obviously we've we've had our opportunity to say something. Uh, but at this time, as long as the council is amanable, I'd like to open it up if the public has any questions uh for our presenter or qu or
or comments that they'd like to put. Uh, please come up to the microphone, your name and address, and uh we'll we'll have a little bit of discussion time. Do I need to move motion to open or would you just open open to the public?
Thank you. I I do have a question. Okay. Yeah, you're you're part of this. Figured, you know, as folks kind of uh by the way, I found it very excellent information. Um I know this certainly uh
with the downtown some of our Alliance and and the team there that this information is going to be very helpful as we move forward. The the one question I had is is, you know, I have two children. They're both in their 20s. Um, and uh, one of them lives at home with
me, the other one works from home here in Somerset Development. Where do you see the work from home correlation with the I guess with the investment? I saw your investment property. you felt that there was going to be some gains there,
some positive reactions and and for the most part, you know, my my my older son never goes to work. He works but doesn't go to work. Um and and uh so I was wondering what your vision is on that as to whether that's going to affect, you
know, I I think he pays high rents, but that's his office, his and his bedroom and and it's place he lives and entertains and so forth. So I was wondering your thoughts on that. Um the the the combination of the pandemic
and technology advances uh h caused a pendulum swing um where uh pre- pandemic um fewer than 20% of all
service workers were working from home to With the pandemic, it went to 98% 95% 90. But that number continues to swing lower. In large part, um employers
have allowed it because they felt that they didn't have enough leverage to demand otherwise. That is rapidly changing. Um, employers have found for the most part that employees who are
working remotely are less productive and more difficult to manage. And so we see companies across the spectrum u shift from asking to suggesting to demanding that their
workforce physically report to work. and that unemployment is going higher and that hiring is slowing is going to give those employers the leverage to be able to say as many companies have from large
financial houses in Manhattan to IBM which told its employees five months ago either move closer and come to the office or look for another job. And so that's the trend that we're seeing happen here and that's likely to continue. When it's all said and done though, we will continue to have a
higher proportion of workers working remotely who never go into the office than we had previously. Uh today uh the office utilization ratio, the percentage of workers who physically go into the
office uh has risen from less than 5% to nearly 70% and we expect that to continue to drift a little higher. Um and so with that, you know, on the one hand, on the one hand, uh your
apartment space becomes more singlepurpose. It's for your leisure and personal use rather than a place to work. Although I will say that most of the buildings that have been constructed have a space for people to be able to collect in a common area to
be able to function as a work or a co-working space. Uh but we're we're seeing that uh shift and so what will happen is that the the work from home will will decline
but then the reliance on transit will increase and so they'll be there'll be it'll be a flip and here in a place like with the connections that you have it won't be it won't be a negative provided that employers continue to be
located in New York Great. Thank you. Anyone from the public questions, comments? Just a quick question. The power can be available to people or just watching. That's for you to decide.
Yeah, we can make that available. Anyone else come up and the microphone? Hi. Um, my name is Christina Duncan for East Cliff Street, Somerville. Um, amazing presentation. Thank you. Um, so I have a twofold question. Um, you were
mentioning about condominiums like the flats. Um, why they're a bad idea. I think I have an idea. Um, I'm assuming because of the collapse in Florida and everything that's occurred since then, we are actually having a lot of trouble right now with condominiums. So, I just wanted to kind of get your take and
understanding with current condominiums that are built for sale condos, what you're seeing and what you predict in the future. Um, specifically also our coastal community here in New Jersey, Mammoth Ocean County, what you're seeing is going to happen there.
And for the coastal community, just so I understand, specific to condominiums or just in general? Um, either I guess either would be great. Yeah. So um while um the construction of new condominium flats is very
challenging okay and not likely to happen in significant numbers it'll happen here and there and where we see it happening um for the most part is in very high value markets
uh where income and housing costs are so expensive. So you'll see a lot of it in Jersey City, right? Um, but instead of, you know, costing $32 two $250 to $3 to two $2.50 cents to
$3 a square foot to rent an apartment here. There it's going to cost four, five or $6 a square foot. And so purchase starts to make sense financially. Uh, we've seen some of it in Morristown where which has a higher price point and it's actually another market that's done quite well with its
redevelopment initiatives. Um so while we're not likely to see uh very much of that uh the existing condominium housing should perform at par with the rest of the housing market. Now certainly there
is the maintenance fee issue and um in Florida because of what you referred to the collapse of in Surfside of a building with loss of life because it wasn't fully maintained there. We're actually seeing that condominium values
are declining. Um and the reason is that the state has taken a very aggressive stance in terms of uh setting aside reserves and having the appropriate engineering inspections. And so um in a condominium building uh
let's say you have a unit which is a thousand square feet in Florida. Five years ago your maintenance cost was around $600 a month and today it's $1,300 a month. Right? And so that starts to subtract from value. But to
the extent that the existing condominium is being well managed, that it has adequately funded reserves, uh, and that it doesn't have major structural problems, the investment value there will continue to be strong.
Okay. So, with the new ones, we wouldn't do the new ones just because of value. Is that kind of the theory behind it? Like the ones in Somerville, like if they wanted to do for sale condos? Are you saying if in fact that were to happen in the future? Yeah. if some I know personally of some investors that are thinking about it.
Yeah. So, that's kind of why I'm asking. Yeah. I mean, certainly you could see it in Somerville because it has a lot of the right ingredients, but financially it's a better outcome to build that same building as a rental property than as a
condominium building in most cases. Now, circumstances can vary from one project to another, but generally speaking, um it's it's it's it is more profitable to build that as a rental property. So, from a profitability standpoint,
okay. And then my last question was multi-generational households. Um what are we seeing? Um because in terms of and what are we predicting in the future for multigenerational households? Yeah. Um 15 years ago it was uh a non uh it
was an insignificant part of housing demand. Uh and now what we're what we're talking about is no longer rental housing, but for the most part single family housing or two to four family housing. Uh today it's become a significant part of the of the housing
landscape. Um and there are varying reasons for that. Um, one of the reasons is that um, uh, elderly parents who moved to Florida in their 60s and 70s and can no longer care for themselves are finding that
it's necessary to come back and be closer to family members to provide them with support as an alternative to, let's say, going into an assisted living facility. So, there's that, the aging of the baby boomers, which is relentless and unforgiving.
Um, another part of this is that because New Jersey has a um significantly higher proportion of foreignb born households, many of those foreignb born households
um have different values uh that place a very high value on elderly generations and wanting them to be in the same home. And so this multi-generational housing has become quite popular. Uh and
it's increased from what was two or 3% of the housing market demand up to 10 to 15% of the market demand. Now, some communities, some municipalities have opted to incorporate that into
their zoning to allow um an auxiliary housing unit oftent times on a lower level or in a basement to be which which would be compliant with zoning in order to allow for that. um it's become a very
big part well not a very big part it's become a larger part of housing demand going forward uh and we expect for that to continue it's there's also an affordability issue to that when you can group multiple generations children parents and grandchildren under a single
roof you're able to pull resources and be able to better afford the cost of living so it it is a growing part of the housing market do you think that's an opportunity here it it is a very It is a very tricky uh field to navigate
um because it can end up with unintended consequences, right? In terms of um taking a single family neighborhood uh of homes and uh and then introducing uh permitted apartments inside of a
single family zone. So, it's not an easy thing um to regulate. Um it is certainly worth considering. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Anyone else from the public?
All right. Seeing none, thank you very much. That was very insightful. I want to thank the members of the public for coming out this evening. I want to thank the members of our different boards that here at planning board. We've got environmental, I see, zoning. Um, thank you very much for coming out and listening this evening. Um, and uh, we
look forward to having some wonderful discussions based upon the information we received tonight. Thank you. All right, moving on to our committee reports. Teresa, thank you. I don't have much to share,
but I am excited to let everyone know um that the Somerville Public Library as of today is open the entire uh first floor. Um so um they welcome the public to
please come and take a tour of the how everything situated now um and start going back to the library. Um and then the uh public safety committee will be meeting next Thursday, October 16th at 6
pm here at the civic center. If you have any concerns in your neighborhood or what's going on in town as far as safety, um, please come and let us hear about it. Thank you. Thank you, Council President.
Um, curbside leaf pickup starts Monday, October 27th. Uh, we ask please that you place either in paper bags or at the curb. Um, you can also call 9087047195 to schedule a pickup.
On September 26th, I was proud to join the Burough of Somerville to honor our dedicated employees at the first annual employee appreciation lunchon. From our administrative staff to public works, police, recreation, fire, and
every department in between, this was a joyous moment to recognize the people who keep Somerville running every single day. Their commitment, teamwork, and pride in serving our community are what makes Somerville the town we all love.
Thank you to every borrow employee for your continued service and dedication from all of us who sit here. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Oh, starting me. All right. Uh got a report from the historic advisory
committee. Um we met this month to um talk about a few different uh efforts that are going on. A couple good things to report that have been in the works. Somerset County's journey through the past event, which is this weekend, includes uh our burrow hall and and the
uh municip, you know, historic advisory has worked with folks in the school district in order to put together like some cutouts so that people can take pictures and kind of historic uh look over by the burrow hall. So, that'll be happening and I hope everybody joins. Uh we want to congratulate St. John's on
their 175th anniversary of being around. Um the historic advisory committee is going to be scanning in a lot of the documents that we've collected so that there's a digital copy of it. So that'll be happening soon. Also happening soon is an event for Paul Roberson at St.
John's on the 17th and 19th. Um and then our plaque project is done. I believe that it's been posted or will be or something, but we've identified all the plaques and historic locations around town. Uh and it's on a map and they've done tremendous amount of effort in order to put that together. So, I thank
them and that'll be able to be shared with everybody soon. So, please enjoy uh walking around Somerville, checking out the historic sites this weekend and and at your leisure. Thank you, Gina. Um on behalf of the Somerville Rescue Squad as liaison, I report that they had
140 calls in September. um they uh had have been working on volunteer training, continuing their required training and also uh yesterday they had a presence at the um street fair recruiting um and and promoting their services. So um kudos to
them. uh as lays on to the board of health. Uh the board of health met on September 17th. Uh they reviewed various uh inspection and um health department programming. Um and uh they also discuss discuss future uh community events. Um
there um there is also a lead screening program for children coming up on October 14th. Um so um with many old homes in Somerville, it may be something um um important to to look into whether you're a homeowner or a um a landlord.
Thank you. Thank you, Glenn. Great. Thank you so much. Uh fire the fire department has been very busy. Uh I'll have a number of things to report here. We had 13 fire department members, three of which were also on the rescue squad tech or the tech rescue team that
participated in swiftwater training and boat operations and tech classes and survived and did well. Right, Roger? Also, uh there were 33 calls in September or different alarms. Uh the fires ranged from things from trash to electrical to building fires and gas
leaks and some elevator rescues. Uh we are anxiously awaiting our newest apparatus. Ladder 57 is lettered and waiting. We're hoping to take possession soon and start mounting tools. Hopefully maybe we'll have it just in time for inspection day so that we can check out
this equipment and its functionality and the way it can support our town. And speaking of inspection day, this Saturday the 11th is the inspection day for the fire department. This ceremony has been going on. a tradition that goes all the way back to October 29th, 1909.
So, please join us at Burrow Hall at 3:30 on Saturday. And then we will parade down Main Street to the east. So, come on, come all to that. And uh speaking of things to mark in your calendar, not too soon to think about the lights parade as well. So, December
6th at 6, the lights parade should kick off. And as it gets dark, we spread uh joy and light around the whole uh town. And you'll more to come on that and the parade route later on. So fire department's very busy. And then for our environmental, we will be meeting next
Tuesday. Uh there was some confusion. Perhaps it's not tomorrow. It will be Tuesday the uh 14th I believe, right? Yeah, the 14th right here at 7 o'clock. Um but we did have other things that have been going on. It's been busy there as well. So, the environmental
commission looks forward to working with the planning board on the tree replacement ordinance and the enhanced storm water ordinance so that we can meet all our state requirements, explain all of the proposed exemptions, and then also make sure that people's rights and properties are respected and protected.
So, look forward to that with the planning board. Also, I'm just going to change to my area. We have uh we're working with Vanderver School tomorrow. There'll be uh planting and educational uh events led by Rebecca, Jerry, and John. They're putting all together with
a grant and plant doing some planting and raised beds at Vandervir. Uh, also the environmental commission also had a presence at the street fair and talked to many different people, signed up people for newsletters and educated them on different environmental issues for the town, including having some electric
vehicles and answering questions about that and handing out things to support our PSEG uh grant and getting energy home energy assessments. Uh, just a couple more. The Somerset County is running an online survey that
runs until October 31st requesting input on the public about uh electric vehicle infrastructure. So you can find that on the county website or go to ww.serveymonkey.comr uh backsomers. And then also before inspection day on
the 11th, the environmental commission is looking for some volunteers to help with the Peters Brook restoration project at 9:00 am. That is located right behind VanFleet Gardens at the corner of North Bridge and William Street. You can find signups on Facebook and Instagram pages for the uh for the
Somerville Environmental Commission or through the Burrow website. If you come, please bring some tools and help us plant some plants to restore that brook. And as I said, the next meeting will be in just about a week. So, lots of good stuff. Thank you.
Helps if I turn my microphone on. Um, this past Sunday, the uh recreation committee held their senior lunchon at the American Legion. It was a fantastic turnout. We thank everyone for coming out and and joining us. Um, big big
thank you to the rec commission for putting this together. Um, and to the troop uh 83, we had some scouts show up and they were they were the servers. They did an absolutely fantastic job. They had smiles on their faces the entire time and it's great to see um
volunteerism in the burrow. As I said to the folks that attended that day, the burrow functions better with with volunteers. Uh it's it's the volunteers that make us, you know, obviously we have the staff here during the day, but all of the other things that happen
outside of the the regular workday that the volunteers take on. It is immeasurable. Um so thank you for being volunteers. Thank you to the scouts for coming out and we look forward to uh you know using their services as they become members of the community uh in in their
later teenage years and adult years and hopefully joining some of these organizations that we have. Um, a few things from recreation. The house decorating contest. Uh, decorate your house no later than Sunday, October 26, uh, in an autumn or Halloween style. A
variety of prizes will be awarded and a map of the participating houses will be shared via social media uh, so that the community can enjoy. Registration is free, but the deadline to enter is Tuesday, October 21st. That's uh, you can register on our our recreation website. Some winter programs coming up.
We have the basketball league, grades three through eight. The deadline is November 5th to register. Um, and there's a beginning basketball clinic Friday nights in the month of January and February at Vandervir uh from 6:00 to 7:00 for grades 1 and two. The
deadline to uh to sign up for that is December 30th. Uh the Summerville Spooktacular will be held on Thursday, October 30th from 4 to 6 pm. Uh there will be free family fund for kids of all ages along Main Street, Division Street, and on the County Courthouse lawn
sponsored by the Downtown Somerville Alliance. The 10th annual Somerville 5K Turkey Trot uh is will be held obviously on Thanksgiving morning, November 27th at 900 a.m. Again, you can register at somervilleturkeytrot.com. Uh I will be there. I will not be
running. Um that is for my son to do. He's fantastic at it. Uh the only time I run is when I'm being chased and it's not even that fast. Um please follow the summer Somerville uh recreation on social media. Um and again we have the
community pass set up uh so you can check that out online. It's uh communitypass.netsomerville uh for all of our our programs. So with that, I know we've had quite a uh verbose evening this evening. Hopefully you've gotten a lot out of it.
Um, but I would like a motion to open our meeting to the public this evening. So moved. Second. Council members Theresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki. Yes. Glen, yes. Randy Pitts, yes. Gina Stravik, yes. Roger F. All right. Meeting is open to the
public. Please approach the microphone. Uh, name and address for the public and direct your comments to me. Thank you. Hello. Oh, this one. Hello. Um, for those of you that don't
know me, my name is Kristen. I live at 23 Vandervir Avenue. Kristen Gellner. Um, so I moved here in 2019. I do have some pictures. Can I just give them to you guys now so you can see them? Thank you. So anyway, I moved to Somerville in
2019. and I bought my house and I fell in love with the town right away. Um, but it was missing something because I grew up in the middle of nowhere in the woods, so it was missing some trees. So, I planted almost immediately some uh twin cherry trees on the street and we
paid about $1,000 for them, but they were worth every penny. I look at them every day as I eat my breakfast and they bloom, they're the first to bloom on the street and they bloom in the fall as well. Um but unfortunately on September
16th of this month um or last month um I came home and found that they were like disfigured by the DPW. Um my neighbor told me that someone had come and used a chainsaw on them. And these are not big trees. They're not big. They were not in
the road. My mom parks in front of my house all the time. And I live on a very quiet street, too. It's not like big trucks come through. Um, so there they were cut one of them I would say almost 50% of its canopy is lost. They cut it literally straight down to the trunk.
Um, so it is now behind the curb. Um, and the other one is probably like 33 5%. And so I looked it up. Taking off um more than 30% of a treere's canopy is destructive to the tree. Um, and I know
that this was not a single um, event because last year my neighbor my neighbor um on Eastern Avenue, she lives on the corner of Eastern and Union, she had the same issue where her trees were were uh cut in half as well.
Um, so when this happened to me, I took a walk up Union to try to make myself feel better and see if the trees had come back. Some of them had. Um they look awful because they're uh disfigured, but um unfortunately two and
a half of them, and I say half because one is is dying, are dead. Um and these are they don't look mature like they're they're young trees. So, uh, I'm here to voice my concern that perhaps, um, the D the DPW, you know, I'm sure they're
great, but, um, I'm not trying to get anyone fired, but I'm wondering if they have some kind of way that they train their employees. Um, because residents and the environmental commission, the town's money is put towards these trees. and if we're
mutilating them and killing them, you know, that's a that's a waste of money and it's not good for the town's environment as well. So, I'm hoping that this brings awareness to that and maybe there can be some better communication or like an arborist on board with them.
Um, additionally, I wanted to know if there was any recourse for if these trees die, um, like some of them have, um, will they be replaced? Um, and I I went on the the website, um, the Somerville website to see if there was
any kind of ordinance in place or anything about like the replacement of trees. And I didn't come anything come to come across anything that was helpful for my situation, but I did come across something that I handed to you. There was an ordinance in 2015 that was made
that um allocated that the redevelopment zone areas, the only trees that could be planted there are Japanese lilac trees. Um so that sort of makes sense because I've seen them popping up all over town. Um they are not native and they're
dying. I mean even just driving in here when you leave there's like five of them on the drive out. So, I just wanted to bring attention to that ordinance because um I think maybe it should be reconsidered with an arborist or somebody that knows more about trees than I do, but they're not doing well
and that should certainly not be what we're replacing the honeyloust or any any trees with in town. Um so, thank you for your time. That's all I have. Um I really appreciate every single one of you for what you do. I know it's not an easy job. Thanks. Thank you.
Any other comments from the public? I'm sorry, Larry. When we start to talk Larry Cleveland, 34 Grant Avenue, there's an ordinance for introduction about pilot application. Will the public
be open to talk about at that point? Yes, sir. I'll be back. Okay. Look forward to it. Yes, please. Hello, Scott Gibbs. Three Prospect Street. Um I'm I'm uh I'm up here about
the uh zoning spot zoning that Bridgewater Township put upon the border of Colonial Avenue in Somerville. That's my neighborhood. I'm a little late to the game, but I don't know. Did we do did we discuss it? I got a notification that we're going to discuss it tonight.
Uh so that's if for for our meeting we we're not discussing we haven't seen the bureau hasn't seen any plans for that that uh location obviously um we've seen it in the newspaper but there's been
nothing that has come to the burrow as far as a plan goes. Have we retained counsel represent the interest? I what I'll tell you right now um this at this time right now this is public comment so I can I can answer questions afterwards um but
if you have comments I'll answer them but we there's no back and forth questions right now. Okay. So my comment is it borders a highly residential zone and uh it provides access. There was no notification. Um I've lived in the area for five years
to my knowledge. my neighbors and uh any of us none of us were notified which was also it was cited at Bridgewater Township's council meeting and uh I just you know generally it's pretty pretty nasty and rude for the way it came down.
So I would like to in general to have um you know the burrow represent us in this uh in this issue because it's just a raw deal pretty much. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions or sorry any other comments from the uh audience?
Hello Jeff Kaiser 23 Vandervir Avenue Somerville. Um so I'm the I'm also uh the vice chair of the environmental commission and I've got a few of our commission members here as well. And I just wanted to um say that you know since the last meeting uh both the tree
removal and replacement ordinance and the storm water management ordinance are going to be going through the planning board. Um so I encourage everybody to you know look look to those meetings and you know watch on YouTube or in live in person. Um however the commission has received a few questions about the tree
removal replacement ordinance that um specifically that I wanted to uh you know clarify a few things um top level and one thing is that I think was being missed is the fact that New Jersey the
state issued uh regulations new regulations that would require every municipality to adopt tree removal and replacement guidelines in their current ordinances or put new a new one in. This would require everybody to obtain a
permit to remove a tree and then replace it with a smaller much small much smaller caliber tree in in in lie of of of payment to the town. They could either replace it in their property or on a place in the burrow. Um everybody
every town in our area has started to adopt these ordinances. This law came into effect in 2023 and we are supposed to adopt it in 2024. Towns in the area have already adopted this. We're not alone in adopting this these these new regulations on replacement, removal and
replacement. Um, one thing I'll say is that the the size of the tree 4 in diameter size is actually not at the base level. It's not at the largest part of the tree. It's actually at the most narrowest part, the um what's called the
diameter at breast height. So that that type of tree actually can be 15 to 20 feet tall if it's a maple tree. Those types of trees absorb hundreds and hundreds of gallons of water a year and they could benefit the town storm water
management as well as erosion. the the state started this um based upon the inlet flood protection law which changed many different things and they included it in there so that it could prevent storm water um from getting much
worse as the years go by. Um the other thing I wanted to mention is that something that's been I think a lot of questions about is that in this ordinance there's a lot of exceptions. So, for instance, if you have a have a tree that's destroying your foundation or a tree that's going to fall on your neighbor's house or in your house or
fall on someone else or dead or dying or blocking a sign, those trees are exempt from replacement and then also payment to the town. So, that's something that I think people should be aware of um top level. Um, and I think that, you know,
this ordinance, it the spirit of this is to keep the tree canopy intact so that as we develop a New Jersey and we, you know, uh, we keep the amount of storm water management, we we we keep New Jersey stable basically, our tree canopy stable and other towns are doing that and I think it's a good thing that we do
that as well. So, I just want to bring those awareness things. So, thank you very much for everything you guys do and I appreciate it. Thank you. Any other comments from the public? John Hadley, 8 Lori Drive. Um, I've
noticed that all most of the gradings downtown around the trees have been removed and it's just dirt and um, and I understand that there were issues with the bricks coming up, but I think actually it it now looks a lot worse.
Um, and I heard something about a possible dog friendly um, initiative uh, you know, putting perhaps putting um, astroturf around there, which I think would be a terrible idea. I mean, our
grandson, you know, the first thing he likes to do when he's walking downtown is run, you know, go through all the dirt around those trees. Um and the idea that of you know dogs pooping and peeing there and let you know unless you're
going to have someone out every day hosing those down it's going to be a very unattractive environment for everyone. So, I'd just like to comment that I think something needs to
be done to improve what's down there and not lose the trees as well because that adds a lot to the town to have those trees. Thank you. All right. Seeing no uh no other members
of the public, uh a motion to close public session at this time. So moved. Second. Council members, Theresa Bonner, yes. Andrew Ki, yes. Lenty, yes. Randy Pitts, yes. Genus Travik, yes. Roger F? Yes. All right. Public session is closed. Um,
a few things, Kevin. The tree trimming that occurs. Um, do we was there any conversation about what happened on Vanderv? Has that brought to DPW's attention? I did bring it to um the department's attention. Uh I was told that the trees
were trimmed to uh make way for the street sweeper. Um I expressed my concern uh about the lack of training for the person who um pruned that tree. I did see the trees. Um it is not pruned
to specifications. Um uh I also have obtained free uh vol uh for for free a volunteer who will come and do a training as in my discussion with DPW personnel. So um uh I've also got them to agree not to prune any other trees
until the training is addressed. So I'd like to think it's taken care of while we can't um undo what has been done. Uh I I share your concerns. I also comment on the lilac trees downtown. Uh yes, I was on the environmental commission at
the time when that ordinance went through. Uh we gave them a a wide variety of trees to select and for some reason they chose that tree and that tree alone and as we know diversity is really important. Uh you can't print uh
plant all one species of trees um for because you will lose all those trees. Uh in addition to which it is a dwarfsized tree put against um five-story buildings which does not lend itself to the the shade or the cooling effect that we want or need. In addition
to which um it is a flowering tree and that is not o overly conducive to restaurants um to have flowering trees in in your food. Um so those are some issues that have come up. Um, I also contend that a lot of them are are dying
because they have not been planted to specifications. Um, and there are specifications. I think the problem is there's no modering of those specifications when the developers put those trees in. So, um, those are those are are I think factual comments and um,
we need to do a better job. C. Council President, I did engage Ruckers University on the tree trimming already. Um, if you have if there are three volunteers that are going to teach it, please let me know. I I'll cancel that. Um, Ruters does offer the tree trimming
course. I actually just took it. Um, we're required to take it for credits. Um, the plan was to put those employees that that are that are actively engaged with that to in that training course for Rutgers. It's a one-day event uh one day
course, I'm sorry. um it it's minimum dollars. They're certified that in that I spoke to the professor or the instructor um who's also doing another project for us now with the with the uh grant that we're working on. Um so I'd like to keep them engaged on that since
they're going to be part of what we're doing in the future. Kevin, if it's CU courses and definitely have them go through and Tom Aenord, former environmental commission chair, can can supplement that training or be on site perhaps with some of them when they do it after they take the training. Is it inerson training or is it Zoom?
Uh, it's in person. Okay. Yeah, they they offer it on on the campus. The uh um and and obviously so that'll work and if Tom wants to supplement that, that's great. And then I did speak to Rodney Hadley the day afterwards. I think you had brought it to my attention as well. And everything
else uh the councilwoman said about the street train uh street cleaner and the height was uh consistent with with the information I received as well. Okay. Uh certainly we want to make sure that you know all activities cease until we have that that taken care of and it
sounds like that's the plan we're working on. So I appreciate that. Um in regards to as far as the plantings go, uh the planning board has been having multiple conversations about trees and and uh the environmental commission as those of you that are the multitude of
you that are in the office uh audience right now know has provided a list of trees of recommendations um and those have been brought to the planning board as So there are are ongoing uh conversations on how we can improve uh the diversity of trees in the in our developments and obviously throughout
downtown. That's a conversation we've been having here as well. Um in regards to the astroturf um and surrounding the trees we asked downtown to come back to us with a little more clarification that has not happened as of yet. Um, but the
the spirit of of what I gleaned from the conversation was that it would not be a tree surround that it would be in in spots that are underutilized around downtown, not necessarily uh where you would be sitting and eating. Obviously, no one wants to have feal matter close
to their food. Um, but it it is certainly a conversation that has not come back up yet, but we have heard uh your comments, which is why it did not go anywhere in our last meeting and which is why we went back to downtown to get a little more clarification on that. Um, the tree ordinance and the storm
water ordinance will be discussed at a later planning board meeting. Um, they the next planning board meeting is Wednesday. there's going to be a little discussion about when those uh discussions will transpire. Uh so they
will not be discussed in full at at this Wednesday coming up, but there will be dates scheduled so that way the public is made aware and that you can be present when those discussions happen. So there will not be there's there's a a full agenda for this meeting coming up,
but they that will be scheduled uh with the members of the planning board on Wednesday. um Cornell Boulevard, the uh the place that that is proposed or the area that is proposed for development. As I said before, the burrow has not
seen any plans for that. Um as a matter of fact, I think tonight, Kevin, correct me if I'm wrong. Tonight, the is being discussed at Bridgewwater's planning board. So, that that conversation that is occurring is happening there and not here. um that is not one of our agenda
items because again the the uh this body has not getting got received I can't speak proper English this evening has not received any uh plans for that um and when we do we would most certainly send them to the planning board for their review and see what kind of impact
that would have on the burrow um see here grates the grates are being addressed uh along with the dog as I said before with the turf so that is something that is also ongoing with downtown Somerville. And uh that's pretty much it. I think I
got every everything there. So, thank you again for coming up and speaking. Again, talk about volunteers having having the ability to come up here and and voice your comments. Um I know it's not a a two-way discussion, but being able to hear your voice and being able
to address your concerns. Um a lot of people think that it should happen online. That is not a clean way to do it. we'd like you to come here or if you can, you know, you can send an email and and send it to the the burough administrator or like I said, come to our meetings and have have your your
thoughts put out there and and then we can address them and maybe even have a discussion after the meeting. So, thank you very much for coming up and and uh addressing us this evening. Moving on, uh we do have one ordinance for introduction. Um the mayor has made it his position
this year that normally with our ordinances for introduction uh there's not a time for public comment but tonight there uh we've made it as I said before um that when we do introduce an ordinance that there is a discussion. Um
so before we introduce tonight's ordinance uh I will open the floor for discussion. So please again address uh your comments to me and approach microphone name and uh address. Yes, sir.
My name is Larry Cleveland, 34 Grant Avenue. I'm on the planning board and I'm on the environmental commission. But today, I'm here as a citizen because I think that the redevelopment committee should handle
pilot issues way before you stick a shovel in the ground. Way before it comes to the planning board because once it gets to us, it's too late at the planning board.
We've lost the ability to work with the owners of the new property to do it the right way. Fair View Avenue, that was a mistake. I was the only person on the on the planning board to vote no because we
should have had that building pushed back. We could have worked with them. We tried and tried and tried, got approved, and now they're going to ask for a pilot after the fact. It's already constructed. The foundation's there. Where's our
leverage? Where's our give and take? We have none. This is wrong to do it after the fact. It should be done ahead of time so that we all understand. Negotiate, do what you got to do. Then it goes out to the
rest of the world. Maybe it'll have been the same event. the same thing would have happened. But what happened out there on Fairview Avenue was a mistake. To all the neighbors there, those people begged and pleaded to push that building
back. They were going to get something. They wanted to push back. No, no, no. Now we're going to reward them with a pilot. I think that's a mistake. They should do that ahead of time. Work out your pilots ahead of time. Thank you.
Thank you. Any other public comment? Okay. Uh do I have a motion to introduce? So moved. Second. Uh discuss. Well, we don't do discussions on on opening. So this is
just an introduction and uh we'll do roll call. Council members Terresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki. Yes. Glenn Deny. Yes. Randy Pittz, Tina Stravik, yes. Roger Verum, yes.
All right. Now, we have an ordinance uh for public hearing and adoption. Um, actually, I didn't even read the last one. Let me read that into into uh into the minutes here. My apologies. Is that okay? Sure.
I mean, we Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I just want to make sure everyone understands we Obviously, you're here, but for the folks on on online, uh it was uh 2772 approving the pilot application and
authorizing the mayor and burough clerk to execute a financial agreement by and between the burrow of Somerville and Foundry or Renewal LLC pursuant to NJSA uh 4A 20-1 at set uh for property located at 100 Fairview Avenue, also
known as lots 2.0 and 2.01 01 in block 50 as shown on the official tax map of the Burough of Somerville located in the Kirby Avenue redevelopment area. Um that was what we just voted on. I apologize for not saying it sooner. Um so now the
next one is for uh public hearing and adoption. Uh this is number 2770 amending chapter 102 article six entitled permits and enforcement section 28 entitled building permits certificates of occupancy zoning permits
and sign permits specifically section B entitled zoning permits subsections A and subsections B to subsection two addressing conversion of a two family duplex multif family or professional office in the R1 R2 PO districts to a
single family and conversion of group homes to a single family or two family dwelling. Uh again, this uh motion right now is to open for public comment. So moved. Second. Council members, Terresa Bonner,
yes. Andrew Ki, yes. Glendon, yes. Randy Pittz, yes. Gina Stravik, yes. Roger Fern, yes. Public hearing is now open. Seeing none. Closing public hearing. Motion. So moved. Second.
Council members. Theresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki. Yes. Glen Den. Yes. Randy Pitts. Gina Straick. Yes. Roger Verm. Yes. All right. Public hearing is closed. Now a motion for adoption. So move. Second. Council members. Theresa Bonner.
Yes. Andrew Ki. Yes. Glen Deny. Yes. Randy Pittz. Yes. Gina Stravik. Yes. Roger Verm. Yes. I apologize folks. When you get to do this only once in a while, you get a little rusty. All right. Uh, next up is our consent
resolutions. Are there any that council would like to pull? Yes. Uh, 256 270 and uh 265 above that.
Yeah. Any others? That was one 265 was what I had. Okay. Everybody's else is good. Okay. Um, so we'll go through the rest of them. 260 is approving the annual renewal of taxi
driver licenses for 2526. 261 is approving. This might help. The fire department lights parade on December 6, 2025 at 6 pm until 10 p.m. at 170 East Main Street and road closure of Vet Veterans Memorial Drive between
Maine and Hamilton starting at 300 p.m. 262 approving change order number one with AS Hunter Municipal Services Incorporated for repair work to Claude Walk uh pool, excuse me. uh 263 amending
resolution 25-0616-170 authorizing payment to Dennis Manning upon execution of release and amendment of the chief contract 264 accepting a grant of $6,000 and approving chapter 159 for county of Somerset Department of
Human Services for Somerville Youth Services Commission for the 2526 abbreviated annual grant for girls on the run SMSB good posit positive behavior support raffles and Vanderbuk's intervention program. 266 is approving
the hiring of Mark Lukak as full-time laborer effective October 13th at a rate of 2250 per hour. 267 approving a bond release request for Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital Incorporated known as block 1301 lots 1.02 for application
as listed and our file is listed. 268 authorizing the sale of surplus property being auctioned a auction lot of Cisco voiceover IP telephones through municip in accordance with state cooperative pricing system 269 approving the hiring
of Gabriel Hernandez as full-time laborer effective October 13th at a rate of 2250 271 authorizing the mayor to execute a 2025 subgrant agreement with Somerset County Community Development Block Grant
Project for Carol Pager Park Ballfield improvement projects uh as listed and HUD HUD grant as listed. 272 authorizing the Bureau of Somerville to apply for a supplemental grant from the hazardous discharge site remediation fund to the New Jersey Economic Development
Authority for the continuation of a remedial investigation of block 127 lot 1, the former color technology property located at 60 Cornell Boulevard 273 supporting an application for a supplemental HDSRF grant for the
continuation of a remedial investigation at the former Col color tech site located at 60 Cornell Boulevard in the burrow of Somerville. 274 approving right-of-way use to pilot fiber. 275 approving opioid funding for challenge day activity. 276
authorizing the acceptance of a grant for an outdoor fitness court as part of the National Fitness Campaign and authorizing the allocation of funds. 277 approving a memorandum of understanding between the Bureau of Somerville and American Federation of State, County,
and Municipal Employees. 278 adjusting the hourly rate of James San Severino in accordance with memorandum of understanding between the Burrow of Somerville and AFSCME NJ. 279 adjusting the hourly rate of
Cody Schaefer in accordance with the memorandum of understanding between the bureau and AFSCME. Uh 280 adjusting the hourly rate of Andrew Sprag in accordance with the memorandum of understanding between the Burrow of Somerville and AFSCME.
281 supporting an application for a grant in the amount of $1,720,000 from the Somerset County Trails Grant Program for the design and construction of an elevated trail system on a portion of the landfill BDA redevelopment area
located on Route 206 North in the Burrow of Somerville 282 approving the hiring of Amy Moyer as full-time laborer effective October 20th at a rate of 2250 per hour. Do I have a motion? So moved. Second.
Council me I'm sorry. Sorry. Council members Terresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki. Yes. Glendon. Yes. Randy Pitts. Yes. Gina Stravik. Yes. Roger Verm. Yes. Okay. Uh we have 265
authorizing a contract with Millennium Communication Group Incorporated for Burough Camera Project at the Carol Pager Walk and Division Street uh as detailed in the proposal dated September
19, 2025 in the amount of $99,29.74 as per proposal under the TIPS contract numbers as listed available through the interlocal purchasing system. And do I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Discussion. Yeah. I'm just wondering um what are the
cameras ultimately going to be used for? Is this going to be like a target parking lot where we can tell people afterwards that their car was stolen or is this like a proactive item? How how are we using? So So the burrow a couple years ago um committed to do about $100,000 worth of
cameras each year to tie into the police camera system. So um basically it'll provide security and uh obviously the camera itself uh but they they will be tied into the police system for all other cameras that we have in
municipality. So if there's a theft or or or um other need to access that camera, they can and it'll be on the parks and on division street is the two places. So So we do have some in in in park areas now. Um and it'll be combined with
those. But that's um yeah, Division Street, we had explored a temporary camera years ago. Um but the goal eventually is to put cameras everywhere, right, in in in in all the streets. Um we've made applications, bigger grant applications unsuccessfully, but this is
the first application we're doing on Division. Um it's a it's more of a plaza than than a street. So, it lends itself to the to kind of doing that almost like we do a park. Is the uh cameras at Exchange Field or Carol Pedro Park just in the parking
lot? Um, well, actually, it hasn't been fully designed, but but the goal is to uh capture the fields and and the parking lot and and the space. And so, we might have a need for a second camera there at a later date to covering the
entire footage. My my comment would be there is the last vandalism we had there was on the playground where obscendities were chalk drawn uh on the surface of the playground. Um so that would be more of my concern than the ball fields. But
thank you. The the camera and again like I said it's it's to get like eventually we'll get that whole area the and these aren't monitored. They're just lookbacks. Is that what you're saying? Um, from a security standpoint, I'd rather not answer that, but but basically it is it is captured on video.
If the police department uh requires decides to monitor it, it would be um they would be connected the same cameras we have in the police station, burough hall, and elsewhere throughout the town. Thanks, Kevin. So, if uh the police department decides to uh accept some type of support in their camera
monitoring and have some type of technology on there that monitors facial recognition and tracks people in the park or on the division street or whatnot. That's because it's looped in. No matter where we put it, it would be in all videos, including these. I'm just concerned about generally privacy issues
of having cameras on children. Uh generally they the th those these particular uh ones that we have are not facial recognition or anything like that. Okay. You know they're um they're intended to provide security. I think most people
you know um appreciate the fact that the the public spaces are monitored. Any other comments, concerns? All right. No call. Council members Theresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki. No. Glendee. Yes. Wendy Pittz. Yes. Gina Stravik. Yes.
Roger Verm. Yes. Uh, next is 270 awarding a sixmonth contract to standard building maintenance for janitorial service at the emergency services facility located at 85 North Gaston Avenue. Do I have a
motion? So moved. Second. Discussion. So, I'm concerned because a couple months ago, we approved, I believe it was a $75,000 contract for another company. Um, and I'm wondering why we're being asked to to sign another
contract for six months for additional dollars. So, I I appreciate that uh question, Councilwoman. the the contract that the governing body had voted on and we executed was a notfor-profit service for
adult uh um challenge adults that that are maintaining both Burough Hall and this building. Uh we're not going to use that service for the police headquarters and fire. That building presents some logistical issues that require a a a
professional cleaning service um as the police department move relocates into that space. So, this is the company that that it's a professional uh cleaning service that that'll be used there for six months in that period of time. We'll assess the needs there and we will bid
out this project specifically for that building only. Access is the other company that you were referring to, the nonprofit. Uh they've been in place now a couple h about a month, I guess, and they've worked out fairly well in the two locations that we felt would be appropriate. Well, I I'll just note that
75 plus 5,000 a month for over 5,000 a month for six months is uh over 30,000. Now we're spending $105,000 for a year and a half of services. And we could hire someone full-time for that kind of money or or more. And I I think when we
get into budgeting for the next year, we really need to look at this in a more serious way. Um and really evaluate the cleaning services as well. Thank you. the the health care course, as you know, is are the driving factor um at over $50,000 a year for a
full-time employee just on healthcare alone. And then the salary would lend itself to potentially uh one employee opposed to a company working um and if that person's out, the company still supplies that service. So, um you know,
I do appreciate that and that's something we can kind of talk about during the uh evaluation of next year's budget. Thank you. Any other comments? Roll call. Council members Terresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki, yes.
Glen Deny, yes. Randy Pitts, yes. Gina Stravik, no. Roger Verm, yes. All right. Time for bills and vouchers. I make a motion in the amount to pay bills and vouchers in the amount of $914,95927. I'll second that.
Council members Theresa Bonner. Yes. Andrew Ki. Yes. Glenda. Yes. Randy Pitts. Yes. Gina Stravik. Yes. Roger Verm. Yes. Again, thank you all for coming out this evening and listening to a great presentation. Um, you know, it's it's wonderful to see more and more people
coming out and being in the audience uh for our meetings. Again, government works better when we work together. Uh so with that being said, Andrew, a motion for adjournment. I make a motion for adjournment. Second.