##VIDEO ID:TkqasghVj5U## the meeting of the planning board burough of Somerville for January 8th 2025 will please come to order adequate notice of this meeting as required by the open public meeting act has been provided that on a copy of the notice of specifying date and time and location was put one posted on the bulon board outside of burrow Hall two mailed facts or emailed to The Courier News and three given to the clerk administrator this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times roll call uh the roll call would come after the uh yeah sorry we to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay we have two indidual office Cleveland your I your name i l Cleveland swear Solly swear I will support the the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the state of New Jersey and the state of New Jersey that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same um United States government establish in the United States and in the state and in the state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people further swear and furtherly swear that I will Faithfully that I will Faithfully impartially andly partially and justly perform the duties of planning board member perform the duties of planning board member the bur of Somerville the bur of Somerville of ability according to the best of my [Applause] ability thank you roll call Andrea D here Chris addex here art aens here Larry Cleveland here Jason krasa here John manilo is absent this evening mayor Gallagher here Barry Van Horn here council member room here and Lisa Warner here okay we are on to the election of officers I'll make a motion for Lisa Warner as chair second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes art Akens yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason kker yes yes mayor Gallagher yes Barry Van Horn yes council member vom yes and Lisa Lisa Warner yes and thank you everybody congratulations congratulations now we need an election uh um nomination for vice chair and I would like to nominate Jason kco I'll second that Andrea D yes Chris addex yes art aens yes Larry Cleveland yes maror Gallagher yes Barry Van Horn yes council member vroom yes chairperson Warner yes and Jason ker yes thank you congratulations all right at least we don't have to move our seats now I know although I did like the corner uh board secretary I'll make a motion for Ryan bakey second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes art aens yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes mayor Gallagher yes Barry Van Horn yes council member vroom yes chairperson Warner yes uh board counsel uh nominate Cara kazinski motion sorry second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes art Akens yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes Mary Gallagher yes Barry Van Horn yes council member vroom yes chairperson Warner yes and final but not least but not last uh last but not least board planner and engineer uh motion for mle second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes art Akens yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes mayor Gallagher yes Barry Van Horn yes council member V yes chair person Warner yes okay um before we go on I just do want to if you are here for the hearing we're supposed to have for Catherine Street it did have to be moved uh did you want to give a little bit more of an explanation for us Cara please yeah there was just a little error ince it was indic as th January 8 opposed to Wednesday January 8th so just to avoid any confusion um we are going to adj it to the next meeting of the board if that's amenable to the board they will have to rece so I will let G to be a Wednesday Wednesday the Wednesday the 20s the only caveat to that is I'm assuming that they'll be able time for that and they'll be available for that date and that they'll be available yeah I just don't know what the publication requirements are for the newspap hopefully by suay okay as of right now thank you thank you thanks for coming out okay resolutions can we do these all at once yeah they could be on the consent provided there's no uh distic votes okay everybody okay with that we're all I'll make a motion to move 25181 through 05 second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes art aens yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason kka yes mayy Gallagher yes Barry Van Horn yes council member V yes chairperson Warner yes all right uh now we have a resolution for the Route 22 dispensary so moved Second Jason um I do not War yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes all right we are moving on to our discussion items first on is um the EV charging um some existing and proposed code and regulations discussed this we wanted to really start to look at this this year so Mike put this together Mike if you want to go through kind of lay out what you did so far yeah uh thank you what we have here is the first page is all the code changes which are happening on the construction level and the code changes are basically uh going to be making all decks sprinkled and there's weight issues and there's charging regulations on the construction side so um the construction side in the state of New Jersey is governed by the uccc codes so the board really can't overstep and talk about Sprinklers and you know extra safety things that what the codes require from a land use perspective however the board can say to the extent possible that the Chargers have to be outside not in the structure when I say to the extent possible because the legislation from the state says for new parking lots you're going to put these Chargers in so if you have it situation where it's all underground parking the board really has no choice but to allow the charging underground but you can look at it from a perspective of fire Lanes access to the front so more where more of a location we're restricted to location definition there but not that it can't state is saying on new parking lots you have to provide this new parking decks new parking lots every any type of parking now I would love to say you can't put structure period but in that unique situation where there's no surface parking lots you're going to be running a foul in my opinion of the state Rags that says that you have to provide this we now we've had the luxury I say we the burrow that there's always been some surface parking lots so in case by cases with like on 50 James we dedicated them to be on the surface parking lot so they're not in the in the structure and I think that works as long long as there's availability of surface parking somewhere so if they have a deck there is no surface parking they have a deck we could we could require them to put the EV charging on the top and not in sandwiched in a level and we can look at stamp pipe locations just from a circulation so the from an oem perspective the actual Sprinklers and all that would be dictated by the code however the sighting I think to a to a certain extent the board the burrow has some control over that which is I just see it in inherently conflicting between NFPA and the state it put in sprinklers the sprinklers can't put these fires out any no yeah a fire hose can't put the fires out no it makes no sense and and one of the things we could consider too um you know in drafting something it you could make a requirement that the EV charging must be outside okay so then whether outside is on the top of the deck in surface parking somewhere and if their if their design doesn't allow for that then they have to get a be design waiver or a variance I would say it's a variance that be VAR location which you know I I wouldn't think you'd want a grant but at least then it gives them the option right to make surface or put it on the top of the deck top of a deck we're having the situation where the international residential code now requires for one and two family structures it's number uh five on page one first page that's requiring a receptacle for level two charging in the garages should you have garages in your garage in the garage just the receptacle though the receptacle so you could plug a level two charger so in theory you could charge an EV that's insane in the structure makes no sense no that's attached hopefully you're running your cable out of your garage and charging in your driveway but there's no that code is now being enforced by the New Jersey UCC so it's not a future code that's the current code for one and two family dwellings as we speak now I'm I I share the concern so on a different application a different board I the review memo I said please put the receptacle closest to the garage door to encourage charging in the driveway not the structure so uh we have some hurdles that we have have to deal with um that not to go and foul with the construction we go ahead I was going to say this also um talk or speaks to the state requirement of the 15% and then the growth that needs to be that's to make ready spaces you have the so that's still still still having the same problem we we you have a mandate from the state saying to you Mr ality and I think Kevin adopted burrow adopted this last year or two years ago and it came out because the burough had no choice the the the legislation said each Bor will adopt the standards being on new parking facilities you will have these Make Ready parking spaces and so you have a mandate saying you have to address the EV and then you have all the codes saying you need spring the codes are tightening up because of the fire hazards what we all know about it's not the fire it's say you can't put them out effectively they burn and they damage structures they damage properties Public Health around let me let me ask this because going back to your outside you know we can make an or saying it's got to be outside of the deck nothing says we and correct me if I'm wrong nothing says we have to allow them in a deck that we have to allow a parking deck without outside spaces I mean there's codes that say in a 100 story high-rise building you have to have mass notification we don't allow 100 story building so we don't have to worry about that what if we have an Oran just says no that the burough will not allow any EV charging stations in a parking deck I don't think we can because that would override ordinance states that has to be so to the point of saying it has to be outside then it would have to be at the top level right and if they can't meet that okay then now to car's point now that becomes a variance so they would have to come before for this board to to clarify how they're going to or why what the reason is that they can't meet this yes I guess what I was trying to twist it into is let's say somebody wanted to do a parking deck could we require that they just got an additional piece of space addition you know adjacent to it and put their five eight I think line I think we're we're dabbing our our feet above at that line where we would be overstepping our Authority and I think you could accomplish the same thing by just saying it has to be outside yeah now I like the fact that it would be a separate area because it wouldn't be on top of I can't imagine them trying to fight a EV fire on top of a parking garage either because and I want to look to see exactly what you know how that's worded but it says the way Mike has it here requires sprinkler systems in all parking garages over 48,000 square feet so does that mean that what they have to have a certain number for those parking garages like I I don't know what the implementation of that is you're going to look at that what how it works right now is if you have an open parking structure being that's a percentage you have knee walls and it's open you don't have to sprinkler for current current codes the enclosed decks Garage have to be SP by code so what the change is is the national codes are saying square footage but another code says I don't care if it's a deck with exception of one and two family you're going to put sprinkles in the sprinkles is inmt to try to contain it not not put it out just try to contain it to minimize public health and damages the property that's my op opinion that's all it's going to be that's all one is the other one is EV charging spaces in new parking facilities so to Jason's Point can we say parking facilities you know does the does the outside satisfy it can we say if you can't be on an exterior portion of a parking facility it has to be on a Surface lot I mean I mean we can we can look at that but I think the location is really your only way right to accomplish what you're looking for and not run a fou of the requirements would it be wise for us I.E you Mike to reach out to the division of fire and see if they have any guidance that they can provide to us yes I can certainly do that you know because that that gives us some teeth then as well we can't be the only ones worried about this when everything we hear is that the fires are nightmares some mpali is have just prohibited them in deex Period prohib my office on my day-to-day job has been it a lot in the last eight 10 weeks and especially this week obviously after what happened on on New Year's Day um they've been reaching out saying what can we do to restrict this and and the I've sold them the same thing listen you got to go back and look at the codes and then it has to be a local issue there is nothing that we can do out of our office even though we respond to it um there is nothing that we can offer um but we have been supplying data on what has happened so far within the county yeah um and the Really the issue is is it really is a public safety nightmare truly like there's no way around that and it's about how can we minimize that I like the idea of what you're saying I'm just afraid of pushing ourselves to a point where are we overstepping by saying no we're not going to allow it on a deck and then what if we have some kind of applicant just saying that where there is no possibility where they're going where they're could be any other surface parking well I also think we have to catch it so I think it's also not only conversation with division of Fire it's a conversation with uh Bobby Lyn and the board of Engineers from our capability our response capability standpoint if we have a parking deck how can you respond and that yeah can can we put a fire out an EV charging fire out if it's at a top level if it's in and this way we have backup data that supports anything that we do um and I think you have to couch it in what is our capability to fight a fire like that and and Roger can probably speak better to to that and Barry as well you know we can't just be okay well you can put it on the top deck if we can't get up there I mean we've got a smaller vehicle but does that vehicle have the capability to put fire out on the top deck an EV fire was it purposed for an EV fire no so you know that that we need that yeah I guess what we're saying is it's the least desirable to put EV charging in the deck that's what we're all saying here yes and should that happen then we're looking at ways to minimize the risk that's all we're saying so drilling down on those two items seeing what the vision of fire safety says on the state level and then looking to manage the risk in the deck by getting feedback from Fire Marshall from the board of Engineers yeah and those who actually deal with this they come up with recommendations if it has to go in the deck is it better off right next to the door so you can pull the vehicle out with a cable maybe or can you these items that we get some experts to or does that create its own fire Haz blocking the entrance or exit of the parking deck itself so one of the other things you have to think about too when it comes to the response aspect so you have the one portion where you're actually trying to put it out okay right which starts with the firefighters once Hazmat gets there that vehicle has to be towed out there's no other way around that so to Brian's point on a top deck that might be your difficulty is because the way it has to be REM moved it's not just a typical toe when we're moving these vehicles just another uh quick Point too about the top of the deck um a lot of these lithium ion batteries when they burn they produce like a magma like flammable liquid every single surface in a parking deck is sloped so if you have a fire on the top level of the deck you have a flammable liquid traveling down the entire deck potentially burning every other car on its way so and it burns so hot that it's actually melted the concrete put holes in deck floors it's been documented holes below the fire it's so high even make this requirement I'm just like B sorry I've seen stranger things but again that's unfortunately just I my opinion it's the wrong people making those decisions they didn't do it with any data they just did it yeah yeah so we should drill down with the fire division of fire safety and get the experts in craft something in the worst case scenario we have to put the EV charging in the structure underground structure but I think you also to Jason's point I think we do explore is there a way that we can res totally restrict it with some other offering so that we're not we're not saying you can't have charging stations we're just saying we're not allowing in the deck you have to come up with an alternative on one parking area and if you took a block and you said we're going to put a parking deck here y well if you if you shrink the deck by 20 feet and you put 30 spaces outside of it exactly that's still one parking facility I would consider and that's why I want to know what that how that's looked at that word parking we don't have to allow it in that case if I'm be on the outside it could be on the outside at least and I think that would be step in yeah there there's also a National Parking Association I don't know if it's called that but I think maybe a maybe a quick Google search and looking on their website and and reaching out to them because this is something that I'm sure that you know when they're building decks all over the country that they're they've already dealt with and are there fire protection measures that can then be built in when these things are being built that would have that capability to to suppress it maybe a little bit better I I don't know right but we're not the first ones so I think it's it's going to take a little bit of research are these regulations from the state or from us going to be um retroactive that an existing deck has to upgrade we can't do that so grandfather is going to be been some guidance from DCA that existing parking lots are not covered so there's a parking lot there and you have some development you can't mandate EV because the parking lot's there do any of our current decks have I don't think we EV yeah I don't think they did I don't think Morris's did I know disavio doesn't like I don't think any of the current decks do so we're we're lucky in that sense because I know there's decks going around the County right now that have them in it so we're lucky they're they're correct me I'm wrong yeah oh here oh here they do the only thing that's been shown to have any kind of combat are the blankets yep right and they're $3500 a piece yes I know I just purchased 10 of them right wow so then then does that become a piece where we you know yes have to in one of the things you have to have is you if you're going to have them if we can't bar it and there's no other alternative maybe one of the things we look at going back to suppression is you have to you have to have them accessible that way if we come as the fire department yeah I like that yeah there you just take them out of but we you wouldn't leave something like that in a wall you would right it would have to be with the fire department but you couch that that it's for the OEM not a structural element right it would be for the purpose of facilitating OEM fire to to facilitate putting the fire out or addressing the hazard because that would that would eat up right fd's budget real quick yeah and I would definitely recommend you know engage County Hazmat because they are the ones that have to ultimately respond and they work with the fire department and they can also add to that in the sense of um thought processes of ways that you could to you know kind of like the ideas that he just brought up there's there's are other ways that you and stipulations you can put in there um because it's not the the issue is once you finally get it at the disposal and you we take we take the batteries we have to take most of them but um even that they reignite on a continuous basis my grounds are constantly on fire no pun intended but so those are the things and that why it's such the the way that they remove the vehicle at times is is done the way it's done too so get input from others from higher authorities from OEM from Board of Engineers and come back to the board with additional information that creative thinking to address these from a OEM standpoint to stay away from the structural UCC comments and see see what others are doing right that's you know we're not the first yes all right uh the the second item for discussion was our lot coverage this is something newer that has come up uh Mike you want to kick this off you want me to kick it off Elisa just quickly else here for Catherine Street maybe are you here for Catherine Street tonight okay okay okay awesome yeah real quick thank you um there's been some discussion that maybe the impervious uh surface definition it needs to be revised to add more flexibility the theme being being to add more flexibility to the land use similar to Corner lots to to address uh some of these houses and undersized lots to give uh property owners more flexibility without going to a board that's the overall theme yeah and one of the driving instances here uh for board actions is the impervious or Improvement coverage it's Improvement coverage covers everything and if you're over the limit you have to go to a board so I think what's saying here is if if the planning board would like to look at these definitions to maybe add some more creativity or flexibility into the definitions Andor the bulk standards and it would be uh schedule uh B and C CES the parking CES the bulk standards on the improve it would be the Improvement coverage in past yeah so I I want to give some also you know historical tiar so one of the reasons that we decided that we really needed to look at this is we we have a lot of properties in town that you know we always use the term grandfather right so they're good as is and then they want to make an improvement to their property and now they're strapped because they were built and everything was done so long ago and we've kind of done that so I think it's time that we really look at what what restrictions do we want to maintain or what how what what items do we want to actually look at and say you know what this doesn't make sense in this area anymore they should it shouldn't really be so where are those exceptions and how do we put those exceptions in place so that we can allow residents and business owners to continually improve their Pro uh their property the way that they would want to improve their property without also you know obviously just opening up the floodgates and saying oh anything's possible so so in the past we've had the planning board has designated a subcommittee to look at the standards I don't know if that's where the board wants to go uh we last looked at this I want to say in 09 and 10 it was a while ago and there was flexibility an extra 5% was put in the ordinance for improvement coverage if you got the storm water to the street so if that's the I'm just giving an example what was done in the past with the subcommittees the the board plan would like to do a subcommittee if not we can certainly address it in the board level no I think a subcommittee so that we can keep moving on it and we're not constantly waiting um and and and then you know really I I don't want it to this isn't one that should be a heavy lift let's put it that way and a subcommittee I think can review this over the next week couple weeks few weeks month and really bring back some good recommendations that we can move on faster sooner rather than later and I think to this point it's is a portion of stuff that we're going to already we already said in 25 we wanted to begin to look at you know whether it's you know um in our zoning or anything um but I think this is a good start and an easy lift I don't think this is a heavy lift for most people um how do we go about do we have to designate that subcommittee now or I think that yeah I would just ask for volunteers who wants to all right who wants to be on the subcommittee if not you'll appoint them I will volunt tell you volun tell you thank you Larry lar environmental I think is a great uh yeah well how many people you want on it not a majority yeah so what three three four times Andrea anybody else I think John John is that joh hey that's what he gets for missing the meeting John just heard that why you don't miss meetings yeah yep anybody else does the committee have to be limited to members of the of the planning board I mean technically no the only reason I I raised that chair is because we struggle with by the way the ordinance is difficult enough um because you know everything's assume that that it covers land other even if we don't know what it is it's assumed that it covers land so the staff does struggle with it so I would suggest the zoning officer or myself participate and try to move this subcommittee along yeah automatically we can kind of do that whether it's you know I know the mayor does not like the electronic meetings but but sometimes in order to move things along it'll help and we could do that I'd be happy to volunteer and volunteer the zoning officer as well to you know to I think that's a good idea especially to help keep moving along and there may be questions um from a perspective of any of the planning board members that having the Zone officer and you on there that's good anybody else for this third spot heard John John Larry and Andrea said yes right Larry too sorry Larry Andrea and John okay good all right um so the only thing I would say for the subcommittee is you know at least have some kind of update for the next meeting so we can keep moving it along whether you're at where you need to be but I don't want it to get dropped so we'll add it as as an open item for the um agendas so that we can keep making sure in case if and if there are questions or concerns being brought back to the board so that we can move through that and obviously give me a question call email if you want me to be on a zoom call whatever you want just let me know right all right we are on to my comments um I don't really have many comments except uh Happy New Year everybody and thank you again for entrusting me to be your chair I am honored um this year I really hope that we can continue to start to hit some of those points that we've wanted to hit over the last few years I think this is a great start with the lot coverage really um starting to narrow that down um even in addressing this EV charging station I think we have some great opportunity this year to touch things that have been affecting the burough for a very long time and really get them moving forward um to better uh one for public safety for our residents but also for you know better living and better in ease for our residents who are trying to improve things you know in this wonderful Square awesomeness of 2.5 miles that's right yes so that's all I have um I'm going to open up the meeting to the public for any comments I just ask if you can come up to the microphone state your name and address please make sure you turn the mic on is that working yep okay good good evening uh my name is Jeff lamorn um the current and I guess soon to be departing chair from the environmental commission uh new chair is behind me here um uh Jeff Lamor 32 Lisa terce here in Somerville thanks um I had a couple questions I haven't had the chance to sit talk with the anybody from the planning board directly at a meeting outside of Larry we we typically meet with and everything that we disseminate he disseminates to you guys which is great um we appreciate you having him be appointed for the board um uh to come and join us on our commission anytime um I I have I guess three things I want to mention uh the first one is probably just advisory uh the environmental commission has put together a list of um recommended Street trees for use in our town here I'm sure many of you are aare of that um if there's a way to uh encourage those trees and especially the caliper size that those trees are being uh used uh for development projects uh larger site plan applications I think it would we as the environmental commission believe that that would be most beneficial to match character within Town um I think an instance that I can point out well would be uh one that we see visually downtown is uh the edge properties uh those two properties in particular and um perhaps where Salted Lime is located um those trees we find to be really smaller in stature and not appropriate for the size we think that can be there for the benefits that the trees have it's a very um uh uh there's a lot of items to that that can be get into but it's our opinion let's pick some trees that are a little bigger for the application um so I wanted to express that uh to you guys and and we can furnish that list if I may yeah I so I think that so you're done selecting what you thought trees yeah I think we we got it there what I would suggest is bring that back to this board okay uh make a presentation show them the trees because the this board has always had a hand in helping to Define what those trees are yeah um and I think it would be great to bring those trees to to to the board okay certain uh certainly I think uh most of those trees that I'm thinking of and referencing are really more uh Main Street like downtown trees ones that have heavy uh foot traffic and and other traffic and and everything else that goes along with that it's hard to grow a tree in that at in that environment but uh we also do have a list uh that kind of reflects more of the Suburban Tree trees that kind of stretch around town so uh we get a nice budget through I think what the planning board does is have the applicants put some money in a fund when they can't uh put trees based on the lot that they're going to improve upon into a fund uh every year we put about a dozen maybe two dozen trees across the town uh to give you an idea we have 16 this past year we put in and there's a backlog of 48 other applicants in town residents that want trees their properties too so it's a nice thing to have to do so uh thank you guys for making that happen um second item I wanted to bring up is a a proposal um so the environmental commission chair in tberry uh recommended this for uh all I guess all planning boards but it's a uh a green development checklist uh where if a proposed development uh project uh such as a subdivision or something that requires site plan or a variance um it's a a checklist that the applicant would uh go through and um as much of anything information uh what to be done with the information I think is something we'd like to work on in the commission but um it's the idea of uh does the development include or increase uh land type uses such as agricultural Forest Wetlands waterways and uh bits about how it's constructed um this is something I have a digital copy of happy to share I can leave the paper copy here as well um the idea is uh it's based on lead system standards for buildings and neighborhood development as as well as what we participate in is what's known as sustainable Jersey um which is kind of a best practices uh list for what uh what can be done for development so um is there I I know obviously there's a whole lot of things that any applicant has to go for uh provide and information does this fit into something that you guys have already um where where can this work I I don't know I I haven't seen it so I I wouldn't I think it's something that the board would have to review yeah I think if you can send it to the board our board secretary yeah um digitally and then he can get it distributed to us and then we can take a look at it for you absolutely certainly okay thanks we appreciate that um and then I think the third item is a question of where to find the agenda for for the meeting here tonight um lar did me a favor and forwarded it to me um but when I went on the website I wasn't sure where I could find it where can I find the agenda for a meeting that's happening the day of so it it'll typically be right on online if you go under the board on the website um the board secretary has been sick for the last week or so oh okay um so there was some confusion and it didn't get posted on unfortunately but normally it is always there it it will typically be posted on there with a link to the um video that you're spotlighted streaming on today yeah but yeah it will be right under there if you go under the boards and commissions and go to the planning board or under meetings you can get to it either which way thanks I think I found where it was supposed to be I haven't seen it checking in the meeting tonight so like you said your secretary's ill it happens I understand um but uh if it's something that I've heard other people mention so we'd like to know what the agenda is is going on um I think a lot I don't know how many people tune into to stream on these but it's just nice to have it so um and I think a requirement too it is a requ it absolutely is a requir so uh thank you I think that's everything I have appreciate it thank you thank you anybody else from the public okay closing public session uh any last minute Alibi before I uh okay I am a motion to adjourn so move second all in favor I all opposed