Good evening. The meeting of the board of adjustment for the Burrow of Somerville for October 15th will please come to order. Adequate notice of this meeting as required by the open public meeting act has been provided that on May 18th of this year, a revised meeting
schedule was posted on the Bolton board outside of Burough Hall, given to the clerk administrator, mailed facts or emailed to the Courier News and posted on the burough website. If any member believes that this meeting is being held in violation of the open public meeting act, please state your views at this time. These proceedings are of judicial
nature. Only those items on the agenda may be discussed. Proper judicial decorum will be maintained. Next item. Roll call, please. >> Chairman Adair here. >> Robera Carpinets >> here. >> Morgan McGlaughlin >> here. >> Rich O'Neal >> here. >> John Flores
>> here. >> Eric Alvarez >> here. >> Ed Alllet. Brian Vadimky and Stuart Daniels are all excused. >> Okay, we have a quorum. Anybody else have any conflicts? Okay, Stu would like to >> is
>> Me, too. >> Can you just turn your microphone on, please? >> Mr. Daniels contacted me prior to the meeting indicating that he would not be sitting on the uh uh the uh >> conflict
>> the 2025 009 C because Z because uh he had to recuse himself. >> Right. Yes. >> Just want to confirm that. >> So did Mr. Vidimski. >> He communicated with me about an hour ago. >> Me too. Okay.
Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Next item, approval of the minutes of
the last meeting. >> Been moved. >> Second. >> Second. Any discussion? >> A roll call, please. >> Chairman Adair, >> yes. >> Roberto Carpinets, >> yes. >> Morgan McLaclin, >> yes. >> Rich O'Neal, >> yes. >> John Flores, >> yes. >> Eric Alvarez, >> yes.
We have a resolution amending um our meeting schedule just for the next two meetings um in November and December. November we only have one meeting and December we only have one meeting. So
would someone like to move the resolution? >> I'll move it. >> Second. >> Move the second. All in favor? No. Sorry. Roll call, please. >> Chairman Adair. >> Yes. >> Roberto Carpinets. >> Yes. >> Morgan McLaclin. >> Yes. Rich O'Neal. >> Yes. >> John Flores. Yes. >> Eric Alvarez.
>> Yes. >> And that's pretty good because we've been since we went to two meetings a month. We're caught up. We are caught up. That's good. Next item on the agenda application.
Oh, sorry. That was the resolution. >> Good evening. Good evening, members of the board. First of all, I wanted to say thanks for going to two meetings because it's really helpful to get to move these applications through. >> Yes, it is. >> Uh they were getting really backed up and and we appreciate we know you're all
volunteers. >> Um um members of the board, my name is Mike O'Rnik. I'm an attorney at Savo Shock Law Firm here in Somerville. Uh, I'm appearing on behalf of the applicant Princeton Canal LLC in connection with an application for 69 West End Avenue
identified as block 29 lot 26.01 on the burough tax map. It's application 2025009Z before the board of adjustment. Uh, of course, since we're before the board of adjustment, we do need some relief by
way of F and use variance. Um, and then that there are several bulk variances. uh in connection with the major site plan approval that we're seeking for an existing professional office building uh converting it into a
proposed 8-unit multifamily dwelling. The subject property is located at uh West End and Cameron Place in the professional office residential zone. That's the PL zone. Site currently contains an older professional building
and a 12 space parking lot. This application proposes an an adaptive reuse of the existing structure to provide eight residential units consisting of a mix of one and two-bedroom apartments. The proposal summarized, which we will detail,
includes a two-story addition in the rear, conversion of the former garage into a two-bedroom apartment, two basement level apartments within the existing footprint, an expansion of the parking area to 15 total spaces to include, of course, our ADA compliant
spaces and one EV make ready spaces. Upgrades to the site include really minor modifications to landscaping, lighting, refuge storage, and storm water. Project represents a full rehabilitation, complete uh and total,
you know, bones up rehabilitation of a 100-year-old building that has been underutilized in our prof in our uh opinion as um an office space. What we're seeing is a return uh to the historic uses on the east uh and the
west side of town for all those old uh large single family residences converted many of them to professional offices in the 60s7s and 80s and now they're um there's a tremendous amount of interest to convert them back into residential
uses given their uh key location along West End venue. Uh this application proposes to maintain the architectural character and enhance the visual appearance for these structures with new details that will detail that our
architect uh will explain by way of relief. Uh we have the D1 use varants to permit the multif family residential use in the P zone and then the FR variance for the floor area ratio where 36.84%
84% is um is proposed and where 25% is permitted. C bulk variances are necessitated for the sideyard setback. Uh the one yard is 5.5 ft proposed where 8t is required and the improvement
coverage 67 66.07% is proposed where 50% is permitted. There's also a parking uh because some of the parking is in four feet of the boundary line. It's an existing condition and within the front yard design waivers include and I think we're
going to eliminate some of these but the ref use enclosure security lighting after 11 and then the absence of a sidewalk along came in place. All the required variances are detailed in a thorough engineering and planning report dated October 10th, 2025. And tonight we
have five witnesses, potentially six witnesses if we want to speak with the applicant. Um, since there's not a tremendous amount of site changes, I'm going to kind of go a little out of order and first introduce
our architect, Ashraf Ragab. Uh, he's going to describe the building materials, the floor plans, etc. We also have some very brief testimony from Daryl Strom. He's also a professional engineer. He's an expert in HVAC uh to
address some of the issues raised in the coal memo. We have Ted Bayer, our civil engineer. Uh he's going to go over the site plan grading storm water management. We have some brief testimony from Justin Taylor, our traffic engineer, also a professional engineer.
And then to close it out, uh Kendra Ley from Kyle Mcmanis to provide planning proofs. We also have Kenny Kawahi on behalf of the applicant to answer any operational questions. We've submitted uh proof of publication consistent municipal land use law affidavit of
publication in the newspaper and certified mailings. >> I have reviewed the notice, Mr. Chairman, and find it is legally sufficient as a form and content and the board can exercise jurisdiction. >> Thank you. >> So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to swear in Ashrav Ragab, our architect.
Would >> you please stand? Raise your right hand. You saw me swear. The testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth. So I help you God. >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last name for the record. >> My name is Ashra. Last name is Ragab. R
A G- AB. >> Thank you very much, >> Mr. Chairman. I believe he was qualified at the last meeting or two meetings ago. And uh we'd like to introduce him as our expert in the field of architecture. Okay. You can either use that mic up there or
sit down and use this one. >> Start this one. >> Yes. >> Good evening. >> Uh so uh what we're proposing here is a renovation and an addition to an
existing uh structure on West End Avenue uh number 69. Uh the building is a two-story plus basement uh with an attached uh garage and uh a floor above the garage at the rear of the property.
And uh we are uh the current use is an office uh and we are proposing uh eight residential units ranging from one to twobedroom uh units. Uh the front unit facing west end uh would be a duplex and
the rear unit uh occupying the garage and the floor above would also be a duplex and the main uh body of the building would have six units two in the basement, two in the first floor and two in the second floor. Uh and they are almost identical
except that the two in the first floor are fully accessible. Uh and in order to achieve that, we are proposing a wheelchair lift uh from uh the parking area. There's a walkway that goes to the wheel wheelchair lift that goes up about
3 and 1/2 ft uh to a landing. And then the two apartments on the first floor are uh fully ADA compliant. uh the front and the back units. Uh we uh had some comments from Mr. Call about
uh their need to be Taipei apartments which is uh a mix of adaptable and accessible. uh and we made some lastm minute changes uh to uh respond to that and we uh I
believe we were able to turn the two duplexes into type A units uh by switching the half bath in the first floor into a full accessible bathroom uh and making the entrance accessible uh through a ramp for the front and the
back was already the the the garage the existing garage is already an accessible entrance because it's on grade. Uh so we just uh have the first floor as a living and bathing and kitchen facilities which is uh the requirement for a type a
multi-story unit. Uh with that I'll uh Mr. are all these uh boards they represent materials that were filed with the board. Are these new? This one is new. Uh I do have the old
and the new together so we can compare but uh there are revised sheets on this. >> Yeah. The fact that there is a new it should be it should be marked and dated accordingly. >> So if you can describe A1 for the for
the last revision date and I'll mark it. A1 uh the last revision date that the board has is October 2nd. The the revised one is today's date, October. >> Can you just take the microphone off the
stand, please? I'm talking to that. >> So, the latest revision would be October 15th, today's date. Uh on A01 and on A3, the rest of the sheets are exactly the same. So there's only two sheets that were
uh the first sheet uh A01 that was what we were proposing on October 2nd. Uh we are keeping the driveway into the site. It's a one-way circulation. Go in from West End, come out from uh came
place uh which is what's there right now. Uh and the parking spots are all diagonal to in the same direction of the travel. Uh we introduced a trash compartment fenced in with a gate uh for
a truck to frontload it and then back off and keep going towards the rear of the property. Uh the proposed addition is uh a very small area between the existing building and the garage and it will be used as a staircase. Uh
that's the only thing we're adding is a staircase uh to make all the apartments accessible from a stair hall. Uh the we are introducing the wheelchair lift right next to the staircase and uh
we also are introducing on the site some window wells for uh lighting and eress requirements of the basement units. Uh on our October 2nd set, we had a walkway that traces along the whole parking lot
and it stops at the stair and the wheelchair lift. And uh in order to turn the front unit uh the proposed front unit into a type A adaptable unit, we needed an accessible
uh route that uh get to it. So we extended the walkway uh by uh shaving off a little bit from the driveway and extended the three-foot walkway uh all the way towards the front. And then we introduced a ramp because this unit is
about a little less than three foot above grade. So we needed a 32ft ramp which started along the driveway and then turns left to uh where the door is and then another left into the into the
unit. Uh so uh this is pretty much the extent of the changes we proposed. Uh the entrance to the back unit is the same. Did not change. Uh and all the units in the middle are the same. Did
not change uh because of this uh added uh walkway and ramp that goes all the way to the front. The maximum improvement uh increased by uh a little bit over 300 square feet. Uh we were proposing
uh previously 10,736 square ft of max of improvement which is 66.07. With this change uh the maximum improvement would go to 11, uh 59 which is 68.06.
So an increase of about 2%. Uh, and that's all because of the walkway and the ramp that were added to the maximum improvement. And these are the only these are the only changes that uh we made and uh we
made this uh uh strictly in uh response to the uh engineering report. Uh sheet A2 uh no change there. This is the existing floor plans as they stand. Uh
there is a finished basement with an 8 foot uh high ceiling for the back half of it. The front half is uh lower ceiling height is 6'7. Uh and then the first and second floor
are all offices, conference rooms, uh some staff lunch area. Uh, and in the back, separated from the structure, there's a two-car garage. And then there's a staircase from inside the office that goes up or
from a lobby in between uh that goes up into a second uh storage space above the garage. Uh around 19 by 19T. Sheet A03 has also been revised slightly.
This is the sheet that the board has that we filed on October uh 2nd or 3rd, I believe. Uh it has uh in the basement we extended the 8- foot uh portion of the basement
uh about about 10 ft uh to make two one-bedroom uh apartments identical to the ones above. So we lined up all the apartments together. Uh the rest of the basement is mechanical and storage uh
spaces that have an entrance uh directly from uh the the side of the structure. Uh the entrance is existing. We are pushing it in a little bit to uh allow for a little bit of room for the driveway uh and the walkways. So, uh,
the the basement apartments have, as I said before, window wells to provide natural light and to comply with the egress requirements uh for fire exits. Uh, the staircase addition uh goes down
from the first floor into the basement and the stair hall accesses both both apartments. Moving on to the first floor. Uh the front portion of the structure is separated as a duplex unit. Uh with
living, dining, kitchen in the first floor and a half bath and a staircase that goes up to two bedrooms and a bathroom uh uh upstairs. Uh we had previously included the washer dryers in
all the units. uh based on the previous planner uh planning report uh engineering report. Uh so that's the front unit. The middle part of the building is almost typical two
one-bedroom apartments per floor side by side mirror image. Uh the only difference is on the first floor as I said the units are accessible. So the bathrooms uh have all the ADA clearances and uh also the bedrooms all the doors
uh are enlarged and uh the clearance for the the wheelchair access is provided in the first floor. Uh second and basement are not accessible. Uh
the back apartment has a separate entrance from the parking lot from the rear of the property. Uh and it's similar to the front apartment on West End. The entrance goes into a living dining area, half a bathroom, a kitchen,
and then there is an internal stair that goes up to two bedrooms and one bath. uh the laundry room uh on these two duplexes uh exist in the second floor. So we're proposing the laundry closet, sorry, uh
on the second floor. Uh and that takes care of uh all the floor plans. Uh now the revised floor plan for A3 which uh is issued today uh only changes the
first floor. Uh uh the back apartment we uh changed the half bath into a full uh ADA compliant bathroom. uh the half uh bathroom into a full uh the kitchen we made it a U-shape with ADA uh compliant
uh uh clearances. Uh and the second floor stays exactly the same. Uh the entrance to that unit is on grade so it did not need any ramps or uh it was already accessible. uh the front unit, we had to introduce this ramp uh that
you know, we extended the walkway to here and then there's a ramp that goes up, a landing, another ramp, a landing, and then goes into the unit. Uh and the halfb also was revised to a full bath.
Kitchen got shifted a little bit, but the layout is pretty much the same. Living, dining, kitchen, full bath downstairs. Upstairs did not change. two two bedrooms, a bathroom, and a laundry closet. Uh, and these are only the changes we
made to the floor plans existing elevations. It's uh uh building uh has a a green tinted uh shakes on the uh all of it. It's quite an old building. Uh
and we are uh proposing to upgrade uh the the facades uh introduce some uh stone veneers on the addition uh the staircase. uh and uh we're changing the
windows uh to uh uh new windows uh to satisfy all the egress requirements and to uh align with the new layout of the interior. And uh we uh here's some
renderings of the proposed uh look of the uh building. It's a vertical uh sighting, blue and white trims around the window. Uh shingle style roof uh the
same as it is. Uh but the building will be fully renovated also on the exterior. >> And that's a new exhibit. We'd like to introduce that as A2. >> Thank you very much. Would you please uh mark it and date it, please?
And that concludes the architectural. >> Thank you. Anyone from the board have any questions of the presentation? Yes. >> Rich. Rich. Sorry about that. In the basement. You've got four windows, two per each
unit, largest fire department escape windows. What's the elevation of the bottom of that window to the floor? >> To the floor of the basement or to the floor from the outside? >> Floor of the basement to the window. >> Uh, it will be probably around 3 foot. The maximum by code is 44 inch. So, it
will be probably 36 inch. >> You're saying probably what's it going to be? >> Can make it 36 inch because the window well will go down to wherever we want that window to stop. So, we could go down to 2 foot6 and extend the window well uh downwards.
>> Okay. Now, when you extend the window well downward, how you going to drain it when it rains? >> We do have floor drains in the window wells. Each window well will have a floor drain. >> Where do they go? >> They connect to the storm drainage system. So, uh whatever store draining system around
the foundation, we will have to connect to uh the window wells to it. >> Mike, are you aware of that? I don't think the grading works. I don't think by gravity. I don't think you can do that. >> If you look at the inverts of the trench drains and the storm water management,
you're going to be in the ground about 4 feet and you're going to I'm assuming you're going to do it by gravity. So, you're going to put a pitch on a 4 foot down. If the gravity doesn't work, we can always introduce a pump >> and pump the the the water from those
wells into the connect to connect to the storm drainage system that's exists on the site. >> I prefer not to do a trial and error. >> Do it. No, I mean the site engineer will have to calculate the the difference in invert and grades and we'll have to come
up with a solution that will make sure all the water is diverted from those window wells into the storm drainage system. >> I'm not sure a pump for an emergency window is a is a solution. I'll I'll think about it. But if you're relying upon electricity to move water out of an emergency window and there's no
electricity, it's going nowhere. So just >> I believe that was one of the >> certain >> the engineering report is you required backup power >> for the steer lift and the >> so we can in add uh the the pump onto
the backup power the emergency uh generator. >> I'll m it over. >> I guess we're still in disagreement on the the wheel lift. them. You're you're asking for a variation from from the code that says you can't >> No, no. The code uh I did uh print out
uh a copy of the A17 the A17.1 uh 2017 and it's the same exactly like the 2009. It says you know the chapter uh 11 in IBC deals with new construction. This is not a new construction. This is an existing
building and we are allowed to use wheelchair lifts anywhere it's required. >> I disagree with that. The rehab code governs the change of use in the building which kicks you back to the IBC code which requires ramps. You can't use
a wheel lift for the R2 use. I I provided all you that. >> No, no. This is a copy from the ICC 117. Uh you can read the commentary right under there. Right? You can't get there. I'm saying
you can't get to here through the IBC through the rehab code. Right? That's the ICC code, but the rehab code tells you what type of accessibility is required. You can't get there. I'm not saying you can't use a wheel lift. I'm saying you can't use a wheel lift for an
R2. And you can't use it and where you can use it on the on the B uses. It has to have a backup power per code, which you're not proposing. So, I'm saying two. can propose a backup power but >> yeah but you're not right now >> you will
require they have to do >> but it's okay he's showing me the ACCI code which covers accessibility to get there you have to go through the tree it's a rehab of an existing structure so you go through the rehab code the rehab code
kicks you back >> to sections of the IBC can I read sections of the passage Sure. It says typical building scoping provisions permit these uh mechanisms to serve as part of an accessible route in new construction into limited
applications such as performing areas, wheelchair viewing areas, small areas not open to general public, raised areas in courtrooms, amusement rides, play components, team or play uh player seating, and within dwelling units. Platform lifts can also be part of
accessible means of eress when supplied with standby power. In existing buildings, lifts can be used for any application requiring access if they are installed in compliance with the requirements of the reference edition of ASKME A18.1.
Please see the building codes for specific scoping provisions, >> right? >> Well, we just have disagree in what the code says. I provided my >> This is the code. This is an applicable provided the code. That's the I I don't agree with that at all because
the the wheel lifts you just referred to is not for the R2. It's not for apartments. Everything you said there is for stadium and I provided about a month ago that section of the code. >> I did I did read it and I did provide
like respond with this passage from the ICC accessible building code. I mean this is what governs accessibility into buildings that code and it says for existing buildings you are allowed to use wheelchair lifts uh whenever you're
required to provide access and whenever there is no space otherwise. Uh so I'm I'm not sure what is there to disagree with like u I mean the court tells me that I can do
it. That's not my interpretation of the code at all. >> I It's not >> We can all look at the same thing. I provided at least >> when it says in existing buildings uh in existing buildings lifts can be used for
any application requiring access if they are installed in compliance with the requirements of the reference edition of ASME 18.1. I mean, it's telling me I can use it. The rehab code says you have a change you have a change of use. Correct. >> That's correct.
>> We're going from a B use to an R use. >> Yes. >> When you have a change of use, the trigger, >> you have to abide by the code, >> right? >> Don't interrupt them. >> And the code goes back and says that you have to follow the accessibility and the IBC current edition.
>> Yes. >> Right. The current edition of IBC for when it says wheel list does not say you can do apartments for that. But the the the IBC edition specifically says for new construction, you know, the the the passage you're
referring to, >> the rehab code tells you what Okay. The rehab code says when you have to apply it and it tells you where to go in the IBC because it's not new construction. Correct. >> No, it's an existing by the UCCC. It's a reconstruction among others. >> So the
>> it's not a reconstruction, it's a rehabilitation or interior innovation. I mean, >> well, I gave you the definitions. I think it meets the definition of a it's both a change of use and a reconstruction. >> Okay. >> Okay. I I provided those definitions to you. So the the rehab code says what
sections of the new IBC code which governs new construction are applicable. >> Okay. It says accessibility kicks you right to the IBC section. The IBC section on the code does not allow wheelchair lifts for apartments
>> in new construction. >> That's what it kicks you to. It kicks you to the new construction. You're out of the rehab. Rehab says do X, Y, and Z. Follow the new construction IBC for accessibility. The new IBC says you
cannot use wheelist lifts for apartments. I'm telling you how I got to the new construction code. You're reading it in par material. >> No, I'm not >> that's how it works. >> How you're reading it because that's >> No, it it's pretty clear in the code
which sections of the IBC, the new New Jersey edition of the IBC which governs new construction also covers rehab where applicable. So what I'm saying to you is you go back you follow the matrix which I provided
this you go to the IBC because the rehab code change of use B2 to R2 higher standard it says what sections in the rehab code you go to the IBC code that section says you cannot use wheelcharts for R2s
therefore if you want to use a wheelchie lift you're left with going for a variation assuming the board agrees with the board construction board of appeals saying that there's some kind of sight constraints. And my response to you on that is there's not sight constraints.
In 87, right down the street, we put a ramp down the western property line to provide uh access to in that case it was a group home, but it was the same situation. 87 West End had the same exact thing. It
was a re It was a gut rehab change of use from professional office to residential group homes. Guess what happened there? A ramp was put down the west side to apply accessibility to the ground floor units. >> I mean, we'll I'll look into I mean, I
looked into adding a ramp, but with all the improvements on the side, I don't see where we can >> Why can't you put a a ramp down the western side of the building >> behind the garage right in behind the garage >> to the to the west of the garage between
the garage and the western property line is 5 and a half ft. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> In 87 West End, that's exactly where the ramp was put in. A ramp was put in >> behind that garage. >> There's sufficient room in the width to
provide that ramp to come up and go right in. Therefore, you don't need a wheel lift chair lift. What you're asking me is to uh go along this route here. >> Yeah. >> Uh and put a ramp there. But even if I
did, it will not be long enough to reach the >> You have over 45 ft to the parking lot. >> 47 ft. >> You have over 45 if you scale it going behind the garage to the parking spaces. >> I mean, this garage is 20 ft. There's
less than 20 ft here. Two parking garage >> to the not parking garage to the parking spaces. If you pull a scale out and look at the 88 parking spaces along the western line, go behind the garage and up and in, you have sufficient room,
>> but we have already a walkway there. You want me to replace the walkway? >> The walkway goes to the east of the garage conversion. I'm suggesting that you put a ramp on the western side of the garage in between the parking lot, the garage, and the property line along
the property line, the western property line, you put a ramp in, you have sufficient space to do that. I'm not saying going in front of the garage. Behind the garage, >> in between the property line and the garage is 5 and 1/2 ft.
>> No, no, I understand. And you can certainly have the distance to 47 feet 8.3% to make it up and go in. There is no impediment. >> How wide is a ramp? >> 3 and 1/2 ft. 3 ft. >> Three and they have 5' 6 in,
>> right? >> 5' 6 in. >> And you're going to be so close to that line. Yeah, >> the western line. >> That's exactly what was done in 87 West End. The same thing for the group home.
to provide access to the to the units on the ground floor which have to be type A which have to be accessible and that's why you're putting the ramp to the front unit now. >> Front unit we needed a 32 foot ramp. Yeah, we provided that but we had to go
in a kind of a U-shape to to get the 32 foot. Uh I don't believe we do have the 47 foot from here. Uh you're saying it's more than 45 feet. Uh, I will take a look at it and I will see if there's
room there for Iran. And before I do that, I have to call Trenton to get a code uh assistance on the uh accessibility. Yes. >> So, I do need to get uh because my reading of it is quite different from your reading of it, >> right?
>> Uh >> and it directly impacts the site plan. >> Uh sure. Yeah. I'm not done with my window yet. >> I'm sorry. >> Right. >> I'm not done my window yet. >> Go ahead.
>> You mentioned that there's a generator. >> We Yeah, if it's required, we will provide one. Yes. I mean, according to Mr. Cole, we are required to uh put in backup emergency power. >> Will that do the whole building including? No, it will be only for the
necessities, you know, for uh lights, uh maybe heating uh units, uh whatever uh is for life safety issues. So, it's not going to cover everything in the building. maybe the TVs will not work >> because uh you know for eight units you
would need a giant generator to uh cover all the requirements and you really don't need you know if somebody has a deep freezer in their apartment or you know uh you know some video games or something you know there's that's not
necessary to be kept up during a a power outage. So >> I think during one of our storms we were out parts of Somerville were out what six days, >> right? >> Yeah. Where do the people go >> if they don't have the ability to stay in that unit?
>> No, no, they will have the ability to stay in the unit. >> So why why not have a generator to provide full service so that they miss nothing? >> Each apartment will have a panel. The panel uh will have certain necessities
on that panel circuits and these circuits will be connected to the power generator. Uh whatever additional circuits that are not necessary, they usually are not connected. >> Who determines what's necessary and what is not?
>> Uh I mean the the life safety issues. So, heating uh lighting uh these are necessary. Maybe the kitchen uh to keep the refrigerator uh going. These are necessary, but other things might not
be. So, >> uh >> because you could have a aged people in there who depend on certain sources of electricity to run >> I mean >> life sustaining uh equipment. >> Yeah. I mean we are proposing here is a
is a a zoning relief. Uh we will be submitting a full set of MEP with circuitry and uh you know how the power is distributed and the township will have the chance to review fully uh that
package and if they want us to add more circuits onto the generator we can do that. >> So wait that's a that's a building code? No, that the only thing required in the building code is where you have a wheel lift that's permitted. >> You have to put backup power to address
the issues that you raised, >> right? But but we as a board here can say >> you need to have a full generator so that you're not missing anything. So your your way of life is not going to change. >> Okay. >> All right. Second question is, do we
allow in Somerville basement apartments? I don't >> I'm not aware of any but uh it's a use variance uh by its face saying basement apartments were per are prohibited. No. >> Can I ask about my window wells yet?
>> Yeah. >> When you're in the basement and you get you you three and a half feet to the to the window well. >> Two and a half to three feet. >> Two and a half to three feet. >> Now you get out into the window. What's what's the elevation degrade? How do you get out of the window well?
Oh, those window wells are provided uh with uh a a step up ladder. Uh they are pre-fabricated to satisfy egress. Yeah. >> What's what's going to be your travel distance to get out of there? >> The vertical travel distance >> probably be 2 and 1/2 ft. Additional
maybe two or two and 1/2 ft at most cuz the grade is about five and a half. >> Have you ever climbed in or out of a window? >> Uh no. No. Maybe when I was a little kid I did, but no, not recently. spent 40 years climbing in and out of windows.
>> I mean, we will satisfy egress uh requirements for the window size. So, not only for people to climb out, but for firemen to climb in uh to uh uh try to help people evacuate. Now the other thing with the layout of the apartment,
the basement apartments, the the front bedroom with the window well A3 uh A3. Yep. The front window in the basement. If you've got a fire in the kitchen, you're you're either going out
that window well. Good luck with that. Or you're traveling through the kitchen to get to the exit door. You basically there's a very high percentage of fires that originate in a kitchen and you've created a far as I'm concerned a barrier to exit. I've seen people die in that
situation. >> I mean the the basement layout is the same exactly as all the other floors. >> Uh the first and the second floor >> bring it with you. I'm just asking a question about why that design.
>> Why why the design? Well, >> it's a you enter into an open living area, you know, with the living, dining, kitchen, and then the be the the bedroom is has a little bit of privacy in the back of the residence. It's a it's it's a typical design that we do for all the
residential units. >> Well, it's not too often that you see a a kitchen blocking a bedroom. Okay. I just want to make sure you've got A3. Um, I'll describe it as uh the window
well prefabrication specs. >> Yeah, thank you very much. >> Oh, you submitted. >> Uh, yes. So, the window wells are you can see that they are provided with floor drains. as it shows on the plan
and uh and the ladder at the edge at the furthest uh portion of the well that goes up. Uh I mean you don't like the the L shape of the kitchen. Is that what it is?
All I'm saying looking at a plan that has people sleeping in a bedroom and if there's a fire in the kitchen, which is not extremely uncommon, their only way out is that window well, which you prefer not to use. I'm just
separating an egress from bedroom with with the kitchen makes you very uncomfortable in a basement. Uh, I mean, we we are complying with the code. I mean, for each bedroom has
there's two means of eress, the door and the window. >> I get it. I I get that. I understand that. But I'm just sitting here saying I'm looking at people in a bedroom who normally you usually escape the way you walk in. People are creatures of habit.
So, you're going to first try to go out through that kitchen. And if there's a fire in the kitchen, which is a place where fires do start, you're not going there. You're going for the window. I'm I'm just uncomfortable with the situation. If you got a response to it, I don't know.
>> You designed it. I >> Yeah, I did. >> I I don't know what to tell. I mean, >> okay. you're uncomfortable with the situation, but uh you know there is a a direct exit from the door of the bedroom
out uh through the door of the apartment. Yes, the the kitchen will be on your side, but there is a straight line. You're not uh you don't have to go into the kitchen to go out of the apartment. >> Well, maybe maybe look at it this way.
What if you're in the kitchen and there's a fire and now you can't get out of the kitchen into the bedroom or up the stairwell? >> Why? >> Well, if there's a fire in the kitchen, maybe it's blocking I I'm not a fireman. I'm just saying I kind of understand
what Rich is saying. You have a you're in the kitchen, maybe have your kids with you, whatever. fire in the kitchen and now that is blocking or impeding your access to exiting the kitchen. It's impeding your access to the bedroom. It's
impeding your access to a stairwell. I think if I think that's what Rich is asking >> from each space in this apartment unit. There's two uh uh fire exits through window wells and one through the door.
So there are three means of igress from that apartment uh from any of the apartments really. I mean, we were talking about the basement, but the same exact situation applies for the first and the second floor. Uh,
I believe that's more than sufficient for egress. I mean, if you're in the kitchen and there's a fire that's surrounding you in the kitchen, uh, you're going to have to make your way out through one of the window wells
or to the door of the of the apartment. There's no other way to do this. >> Okay. I I do have a question about um the size of the apartments. I believe the onebedrooms are um 610 to 625
and the two bedrooms are about 9006 thereabouts. Do you know what our minimum requirements are for one and two-bedroom apartments and how do these comport with that? I believe the the one-bedroom apartment
requirement is about 550. Um >> I thought it was six. >> I thought it was eight. >> I think it's only in the >> in the redevelopment areas 800,000. >> Okay. So, and then what is it? And then
for a twobedroom,000. >> Okay. So, 800 to a,000 and these are six and nine. Am I understanding that correctly? >> I think that's correct. That's >> So you're you're proposing apartments
that are smaller than our requirements is >> for the redevelopment areas. Yes. >> Okay. So that's kind of problematic. If they're supposed to be eight and yours is only six and they're supposed to be a
thousand and yours is only nine. Got a pro. I I see that as a problem. That's an impediment for me. >> Okay. >> I I had a question about uh you said that this is you don't think this is a reconstruction?
>> I don't believe so. I mean, it's an existing structure. We're gutting it from the interior. We're adding a small addition on the outside. But Mr. Cole says that he goes by the definition and it applies >> on the UCCC definition. And how how does that
>> a reconstruction usually is like you're knocking something down and rebuilding? Well, the definition of reconstruction means any project where the extent and nature of the work is such that the work cannot be occupied while the work is it
excuse me I'm sorry reconstruction means any project where the extent and nature of the work is such that the work area cannot be occupied while the work is in progress and where a new certificate of occupancy is required before the work area can be o reoccupied.
Do you think >> yes it it applies? Yes. >> Mike, does that have any impact on what you were saying as far? >> Well, the real impact is the change of use from a UCCC perspective. You're going from a B to an R and the code says
when you go up, they have a threshold. If you go up in the change, a more intense use, it requires more fire safety accessibility. Okay, in this case, you're going up. Uh our use is a higher than the B use. We go through all the tables. You go through the rehab
code. It tells you pick and choose what portions of the new building code you have to be applicable to. >> And there goes the rub because I I can get you right to the IBC code. It says clearly rear list cannot be used for apartments. >> I I think I understand now.
>> Okay. You go through this whole matrix because the building's there. It's not new construction. So you don't have to follow all the requirements in the IBC code for new construction because it's not new construction. So the the code goes through okay what
are you changing it to a higher light safety >> has a use and if you do that it kicks in more safety features. >> So the UCCC says change of use can either go up or down. If you're going down, you don't have to do much to
change. You're already at a higher hazard category school. >> If you're h going for a higher hazard category, then you have to comply, >> yes, >> with a lot of the requirements of that higher hazard category. So, you have to do a lot of changes. sprinkle system,
accessibility, structural, uh, you know, supports, uh, exterior, you know, vertical shafts, all kinds of there's about eight schedules that you have to go one by one and make sure that you're abiding by them if in case you're going to a higher hazard category. There was
clarification issued in the latest I found was 18 is a bulletin, a DCA bulletin which was provided to the applicant that says any type A units have to be accessible in the ground floor on buildings that don't have an elevator which this is. So if you're
doing a gut reconstruction change you use the ground floor has to be accessible. I think it's very clear and that's why the applicant has changed it to put the ramp on the front of the building which is not in your plans because Up until this reiteration, only two of
the units were accessible. And I've been saying for a month now, they all have to be accessible because they're type uh a building units on the ground floor and the code says they all have to be accessible. So, all four units have to
be accessible. Secondly, how do you provide accessibility? And there goes the rub between a ramp versus a wheel lift of what's allowed by the code. And then if you have a situation when you're on a lot line, you have no room, you can ask a variation from the board of a
construction board of appeals saying, "I can't put this ramp in. I need a variation because it's not practical. It's impracticality." So, and what I'm saying is because you have room on the site, I I'm not I I just I don't agree that there's
impracticality of where the accessibility can be maintained. >> So, that the rub is whether a wheel lift is allowed for apartments. >> Yes. >> And the but back on Morgan's position, you think about this logically, why would it be allowed on new construction
because of power outages? What kind of accessibility is this? one one lift at a time, but we can certainly clarify this. I think I provide all the documentation to get you to we're in the IBC, but there seems to be a disagreement on what's
>> I mean, I have no intention of going against the code. If there tells me I have to do it, then I have to do it. >> And the reason why I'm I'm stuck on this because it directly impacts the site plan in front of the board. >> And that's why I'm like, do we need a ramp? Do we not need a ramp? Where's the
generator going? If I'm incorrect and you can do a wheelch lift, you have to provide backup power. For instances where a wheelchair lift is allowed by the building code, >> yes, >> to address the issue of power outages, you have to do a generator.
>> Public safety is a is within certainly the authority of this board uh in terms of uh adjudicating applications. know it's under 40 col 55D2- A. >> So then it goes back
>> as fundamental as it gets >> right when Morgan says what are your backup powers because there's nothing in the application indicating backup power right now. I don't I I suggest it because the policy of both boards have been when you do more than four or five
units, you provide backup power. 2527 in front of this board. It just happened in Middle Street 2527. I'm providing backup power for those 13 apartments. So it came up in the report saying
are we going to provide backup power because that's been a policy of both ports. Secondly, I'm saying where wheelchair lifts can be done, you need backup power. >> No, we as I said, we are propos we are apply like planning to have an MEP set
of drawings and we will be applying for construction permit with a full package of construction documents and the backup power will come up. If it is required, the MEP engineer will include it on the in the design. >> Yeah, but it's not
>> it sounds like He doesn't want us to say full generator for the whole building. >> He's relying on the construction code people to tell him what needed. >> Right. In the construction code, there's no nothing in the UC requires backup
power in this building >> except for where Right. So again, the backup power goes back to the policy of both boards. No, no, but it could be put as a condition if you require a generator. Yeah, it
could be put as a condition. It's no problem. >> Okay, good. >> Where do you put it? >> Right. That's part of the site plan. >> Oh, the the generator. >> We do have pads on the back for the HVAC. Uh we could add a pad for the
generator >> uh at the rear at the west side of the building. >> That would increase your impervious coverage. >> Well, The thing with that is, and we run across this all the time, is the noise code. You have to exercise a generator. It's if you try to kiss the property
line with that generator, I can almost guarantee you it will not comply with this this noise code. It's 55 dBA. And I've yet to see a generator, even a Whisper Cry that's 55 dBA 3T from a property line. Maybe there
are ones out there. I mean, we we do have other spots we can put it. >> You're saying there's flexibility. We can comply with the noise, but I'm sure you can. I'm just saying >> it'd be nice to see this like you have a compressor, AC compressors on the
property line. I don't know if they comply. >> On the western property line, there's AC compressor or heat pump. I think it's AC compressor for each unit in a row. >> Eight of them. Yes. >> Yes. It's in the report that I I I just don't have the data on that. Uh we've
had problems challeng >> Yeah. with complying with this. >> I mean again you can request the the uh the sound uh level of those cut sheets
and we can uh provide you. you can say, you know, maximum 30 or 40 uh decibels and we will provide a unit that will satisfy that uh requirement. >> I mean, you know, I'm not an MEP
engineer, but that's what I'm going to depend on, an MEP engineer to go search for an appropriate unit at the right decel level and propose it. You you're saying that I'm sure we can address the noise code with the loca location of the
AC compressors and any generator backup generator. That's what you're basically saying. And I'm I'm saying I don't disagree with that, but it's not on the site plan. >> It's on the site plan because we had to
basically put a a a placeholder. But all these things, we can shift them around. We can shift them to the front. We can shift them to the back. You know, if the decibel is too high at that area, we can relocate them. We just are showing them on the site plan because there right now
we don't have an MEP engineer. Uh we are just submitting for a zoning application. So, but the location of them can be uh uh changed and we can work with the borrow uh of Somerville to,
you know, until they're satisfied with the right location for them. It's no problem with that. >> Remember that since this is a D1, uh the board, you know, the board does not consider these things in a vacuum. So whatever you whatever you put on the
site plan should be pertinent to what's going to be do what's going to be happening because you may be prejudicing your own uh you may be prejudicing your own application uh by not having specific information that would enable the board to make a
reasoned decision. So, I mean, the only reason I'm saying is because I I'm hearing your testimony and to some extent you you're vacasillating a little bit and I'm concerned. >> No, I'm just saying that there are >> professionals that will look into the
details of this. There's going to be a meter pit. >> Looking into it is not solving the problem. >> No, no, they will come up with >> the correct solution because that's their technical expertise. There's no reason why the board didn't bifurcate this.
>> I I I understand what you're saying. What my concern is in the site plan, the board's approving something, >> right? >> And you're saying you're probably going to need flexibility on location or certain things. >> The board can place conditions. So, you
can place conditions on the HVAC that it has to satisfy the decibel. The same thing with the generator. It has to satisfy the the the noise. Uh >> but the board is also entitled to know the information up front. >> But the problem is this condition is is
not necessarily sufficient. >> May I suggest um anticipating there may be revisions and revisiting of some of these site plans. >> It would appear >> that we uh put a pin after public question. >> Um get through some other witnesses that
may have less uh controversial uh testimony and then controversial is I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying this is more than controvers. This is quite pertinent. I wouldn't even say controversial because we've already
talked about public safety issues here and resident safety and you know we're not getting it's it's on >> you know I I I I can't help noticing this. I mean I I question witnesses all the time. I'm not getting I'm not
sensing you're giving straight answers. Maybe not because you're being uh misleading or anything, but because you don't have the information, and it would seem to me that you need to provide that. >> I mean, that's just my opinion, Mr. Chairman, but I am the board attorney
and I >> I think these are things you need to know. >> I'm totally agreement with you. >> I bet one question. >> I would just Oh, go ahead. >> About windows. >> Well, not by windows, but are you are you planning on sprinkling this place? >> Yes.
I'll get back to the window. >> Rich, Rich, are your are your concerns about the windows windows addressed or is there or is there still information you need? >> So far, they're not addressed and I'm not sure they can be. >> All right. Okay. Anyone any any more questions from
the board? Anyone from the audience have any questions on the testimony just given? questions on the testimony. >> Okay, >> we got one here, one from the back. >> Come on up. >> Please come up and speak into the microphone. You might want to hand that
microphone to >> get your name and address, please. >> Hi, David Lang 18 Cam Place in Somerville, >> LG. Uh I a lot of testimony uh some over my head. Um, when you're talking about
the 15 places and the pass through, uh, with the change of use, we're going from a Monday through Friday business with no weekend, uh, movement to 247 and we have nine houses on Cam Place.
You can't park on the one side. You >> What's the question, Mr. L? Uh I'm worried about exiting onto Cam and place and uh does that have to be the rehabs that have been done when there's been change of use? They've always closed those off to preserve the theity
>> the yeah of of the single family homes that are there. So I'm very concerned about that becoming >> uh a thoroughare. So my question is can we close that off? Does it have to remain because we're changing use which means it's no longer Monday through
Friday. It's going to be all the time and it's what has been done previously. That's my question. >> I think that's for the site engineer. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We'll come back to that. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else from the audience have any questions of the testimony given by the
architect? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um just going to try to get through some more witnesses. >> Your witness will continue to be available during this hearing. >> Of course. Very good. Of course, >> I had one last night where we I I we had
to get everything in. So, I mean, I'm that's why I'm asking the question. It's just >> So, I'm just going to provide um some brief testimony from Daryl Strom just to address some of the air quality concerns. Just about five minutes of
testimony while he's here tonight. >> Mr. Stum, would you please raise your right hand? Do solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth so I'll help you God. >> Yes. >> Please state your name and spell your last name for the record, sir. >> Daryl Strom, S R O M.
>> Thank you very much, Mr. Granic, your witness, sir. >> Mr. Strom, um, could you provide the board with your professional qualifications and licenses? >> Yes. Uh, I'm a licensed engineer and I've been practicing engineering for over 15 years. Um, I received my
bachelor's in engineering from Ruckers University. my masters from Lehi. Um, and I have successfully designed over a thousand residential uh, HBAC systems. >> Thank you. >> Could you provide your testimony relative to some of the comments from
the Cole memorandum? >> Yeah. Um, I'm really here to address any of the board's concerns about uh, the design of the building and how it will um, address air quality concerns. Um we intend to uh comply with you know all
codes and air quality um measures that are required um and we'll go above code by providing MV 7 or eight filters um whatever the HVAC system will allow for uh additionally we will make sure that
um dehumidification is provided in basement apartments because it'll likely it could be necessary um it often is in basements Um, and uh, yeah, I'm really here to answer any of the board's questions. >> I have no further questions for Mr. Strong.
>> Anybody from the board have any questions? Um so actually natural ventilation is no longer allowed by the code. Uh you have to provide uh fresh air from the outside. Um so we do intend to do that.
What? >> Yes, it's permitted. Yeah, >> you're asking in the basement apartments if um I don't have the details on the windows, so I can't uh answer that question. I'm sorry. >> Anyone else on the board have any question? Mr. Strong?
>> No, I do. The codes you referenced is all about air exchange and providing fresh air. How about the quality of the sub subterranean air? I don't think a code requires like suma testing. Are you proposing any testing or relying on the
volume and the the volume of fresh air coming in to address the air quality? >> Um great question. Um so ashray 62.2 which is uh what the code is based on um dictates the ventilation air requirement
intending that to address the air quality concerns. Right? So the amount of air that comes into the apartments is intended to remove contaminants from all types of apartments including basement
apartments. Um so that is the intent of of the outside air coming into the apartment. >> So it's dilution. Yeah, delution is the solution. >> The solution to pollution. >> So, make sure we're on the same page. You're not proposing in the air quality.
You're prop That's the old expression. >> Yeah. I mean, so in in reality, all apartments have uh contaminants, right? From there's fireproofing and furniture and you know, um so that is that is
really the intention of of ventilation. So, And it's becoming even more important with newer buildings because they've gotten tighter and tighter. So, >> um, you have to remove those contaminants. >> So, if the building's too tight, you have to do the air exchanges just to
keep it so the air quality remains >> correct. We're talking the same language. I say I So, I knew you were going there on the CO. That's you're not proposing testing that you were just using. I got it. >> That's right. The one raptor was the one
that squeeze squeeze. >> I have no further questions for the witness. >> Anybody else? Anyone from the audience have any questions? Mr. Strong's testimony. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. >> Um, our next witness is Justin Taylor.
>> He's our professional traffic engineer. >> Good evening, Mr. Taylor. Would you raise your right hand? You solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth. So I hope you got it. >> I do. >> Please state your name. Spell your last name for the record. >> It's Justin Taylor. T A Y L O R.
>> Thank you very much. Mr. >> Mr. Taylor, uh are can you give the board uh your lensure and your professional and educational experience? >> Sure. Uh I hold a bachelor's in engineering from the University of Delaware. I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey as well as
Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Texas. I'm also a certified professional traffic operations engineer by the Institute of Transportation Engineers. Been practicing traffic engineering for gosh almost 25 years now and have testified to hundreds of boards throughout the state of New Jersey although I have not had the privilege of being here in Somerville before.
>> So could you we would like is he approved as an expert in the area traffic engineer? Thank you Mr. >> Chair. So could you just summarize the existing and proposed site conditions emphasizing the layout circulation patterns etc. Sure. So my responsibility
as part of this team was to take a look at what the change in use and the proposed use variance would have on uh traffic generation, traffic impact and circulation through the site. So to take those in a couple different steps, when
we talk about traffic generation, what we typically do is look to either the institute institute of transportation engineers or the NJ DOT for trip generation for individual uses. Within the report that we submitted, we utilized the NJ DOT rates since it is
along uh West End Avenue as a state highway. But those rates are underlying formulaic calculation comes from the IT. And what we find is when you compare the 4785 square feet of office that's contained within the building today
>> to the proposed eight apartments that would be there if the use variance is granted. We find a change in peak hour traffic of between two and three vehicles. Right? So in the morning you would actually see less traffic generated by this type of use. In the
afternoon it's about the same. on Saturday, naturally you're going to have slightly higher peak hour generation use. Um those, as I said, range in that level of two to three vehicles. We're not talking about hundreds of vehicles. We're talking about a handful in this in in this case. Um there was a comment
about the utilization of the NJ DOT rates in Mr. Car's uh Mr. Cole's review letter. >> So I went back and took a look at what the IT and their new 12th generation of trip generation would say. So, if you look to the land use code of small
office buildings, it's land use code 712. >> Um, it's for office buildings under 10,000 square feet. The comparison of that to the eight apartment units would say that it generates three less trips in the morning, three less trips in the evening, and one more trip in the
Saturday peak hour. Right? So, again, what we're talking about is a negligible change in traffic impact from this changeover. The other thing that I do look at typically when we're talking about a use variance application is what other uses actually could be permitted. We took a
look at what's there now the uh the the engineering office. But in this location, you could actually put a medical office building, you could put a dentist office, you could put a clinic. So when we look at the land use code 720 medical dental office building the disparity between what could be here by
your code and what is permitted by or what's requested by the use variance actually broadens right you would generate 10 less trips in the morning compared to a medical office bu building five less in the evening and again one more in the uh on a Saturday so that's
peak hour typically as a traffic engineer that's what we analyst because that's the the highest impact on the surrounding roadway. It's when you have the most background traffic going around uh people going to and from work. But I know the question was going to come up in this situation. What about during the
day? What about as a daily number? And what about the comparison of this on a Saturday? Are we talking about the apartments generating throughout the day a lot more traffic compared to the uses that are permitted? So we look at the daily traffic associated with these
uses. Based on the IT projections, it would say for eight apartments, you would generate 50 daily trips on a weekday and 36 on a weekend. Right? That's for the apartments. >> You compare that to the office building of 69 on a weekday. So you're about 19
higher than what the um the um the apartments would generate. If you look at the medical office building, what we're talking about is 19 trips. So you're talking about almost 70 more trips throughout the whole day that would be coming to and from this facility if it was occupied with a
permitted use. On the weekends, it is naturally lower than that, but it's not really a significant number when I look at it. Um you're looking at about 15 less trips on uh when compared to an office building and 11 less trips compared to what a medical office
building could potentially generate on a Saturday. So with all those numbers, I can draw the conclusion that the impact to the surrounding roadway network based on this change of use is going to be negligible. There's no detrimental impact that the board um that would
arise from the board granting the use variance for these impartments in in my opinion. Um there was some commentary in the um the review letter about the egress on the keman and the um potential
impact to the residential neighbors in the back. Um we looked at it and what we're talking about is the one-way circulation pattern that's currently going on today. There is no change to that pattern
proposed. And while the traffic pattern is contraflow, so you have people from a residential use, normally you'd have everybody leaving to go to work in the morning, right? Whereas the office building, you would have everybody coming into the facility in the morning. The way everything is
laid out in there, the impact to the um to the residential in the rear from purely a a headlight standpoint is the same, right? you're still driving in a one-way direction to the rear from West End to Chem, you're going to park in those parking spaces, whether you're
coming into those parking spaces or whether you're leaving the parking spaces to exit to go to work, the impact is the same. So again, from a traffic standpoint, I don't see any change in the impact of the surrounding roadway network based upon the uh the proposed use by the apartments.
We did touch on circulation. Um the circulation aisles do meet your ordinance requirements. uh for oneway parking and 45 degrees. Your ordinance requirement is 13 feet. We are providing 16 feet in the rear for the 45 degree parking which will provide adequate
circulation for those uh those continued use of those spaces. Um it is also my opinion that the maintenance of this one-way circulation pattern provides for good transportation engineering planning. Um the NJ DOT in
their access code encourages the use of alternative access and the minimization of conflict points along state highway. So by maintaining the existing travel pattern and circulating the vehicles in through west end and then having them
exit to Karen and Midaw to recirculate to the surround network I think follows good transportation planning. So it's my recommendation to continue to maintain the circulation pattern as it is today. Um
so in a nutshell I think that this thought process be behind the uh the circulation pattern and the layout of the site has been thoughtfully done. I think it continues to provide for safe and efficient access to the site. And I think from a traffic impact standpoint,
the granting of this use variance actually um constitutes a reduction in traffic impact over what could actually be permitted as of right in this facility. >> And does the plan include two handicapped accessible and one make
ready EV space? >> Yes, it does. Which meet all applicable codes. We also do meet the RSIs requirement. based on the one and two bedroom mix of the facility. >> So this is in compliance with RSIS parking standards and ADA accessibility. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I have no further questions. Mr. Taylor, >> anyone from the board have any questions? Mr. Taylor, >> did I hear you mention >> Did I hear you mention Sunday? So, we looked at Saturday because that's typically what's published within the
Institute of Transportation Engineers uh trip generation manual, but we did look at a weekend day from both a peak hour trip generation and a daily trip generation. >> So, in your testimony, would you say that there's going to be more traffic on Saturday and Sunday at this location
because it's residential versus office? I would say there is a negligible increase in traffic when compared to the other permitted uses. And when I say that, we're talking about on a daily uh trip generation perspective. If you
were to compare it to a small office building, land use code 712, we would project it would generate 15 more trips than what's proposed here. 50 throughout the entire day. I would say that the threshold that the NJ dot and the
Institute of Transportation uh has set is 100 new peak hour trips for something be significant. So we're fall well below that threshold on a daily basis, let alone on a on a peak hour basis.
So, does your information include what just went on with CO with everybody working from home on an office or at a reduced five-day maybe they're working two to three days at the office and the other at home? >> It's a great question and the answer to that is yes. The 12th edition of trip
generation was just published this August and so it's based on data collected postcoid up until now. So yes, it does relate to what's going on in a hybrid work environment that we see today. So let's talk about what the use was. So
it was an engineering firm there for a while. >> Yep. >> If you go way back, it was a single doctor that was there. I believe that he was a uh pediatrician. And I don't believe that they had Saturday hours. Medical may and it is
approved for medical if if we would allow it. But I just want to go back to it sounds that by being eight units on a Saturday and Sunday, it is going to be significantly more traffic than what was
there previously on this location. So from my terminology from a traffic engineering parlance it is not significant and I don't think that you can look at it necessarily in a vacuum of what was there 20 years ago. What we
need to do from a use variance traffic perspective is determine what's permitted there and what we're asking for. So I do not believe there's any stipulation on not having Saturday office hours for a medical office that could go here. Right? So then what we
need to do is look to what the data would say could be generated by that use and that's the numbers that I quoted to you. So what we're talking about from a medical use to what we're asking for is a difference of 11 daily trips 11. Right? So to me in from a traffic
engineering perspective that is not significant. So, if that building were converted to medical use, the whole square footage that you recited, is there enough parking spots there now to satisfy that for medical building? >> It's a great question. It's not
something that I I uh looked into. >> The answer is no. Most likely the ordinance requires one four parking spaces for every doctor. You start rolling through all this, most likely it would be a parking variance. So the answer to the question in my
opinion it would most likely not have sufficient parking and therefore be subject to constraints by the board to limit that to the parking requirement now. >> So four we have 15 parking spaces. >> Yeah I I agree with you in your volume.
I it's just a question of when and that's what I brought up. I I think your volumes you're using it. I question whether because the the the classification you used was for general office under 200,000 square feet and
that's when I said to you I know the it and you found a much in my opinion smaller classification under 14,000 or 10,000 which is more appropriate gives you the same number so the volume I agree with you in the volume it's just a question of timing
>> correct >> uh with an apartment building you have people coming and going 247 Now, the distinction being made on most professional uses, you don't have that. Okay? Most professional offices are only eight hours a day and closed on the
weekend. Yes, you're correct. You can put medical in there and yes, someone could operate the the office on the weekends, but generally speaking, that's not what's happening in the professional office zone district. So, I agree with
your volumes. I don't agree that the the traffic is the same on the weekends and the questions I raised are not mathematical questions. Headlight glare noise on the weekends which is not there. From a volume point of view, I agree with you. >> Okay.
>> But from a timing and from a weekend point of view, I think there's a vast difference from from a typical professional office use versus an apartment building. So I would say that the peaking characteristics are relatively the same. What you have is a
an influx for uh commercial in the morning as the employees come in >> and then you have an egress in the afternoon. >> From a residential standpoint, it's the opposite, right? Everybody's leaving in the morning to go to work. >> You still have from a headlight perspective, you still have the same vehicles driving down that rear access
aisle >> coming whether they're parking in the parking spaces or they're leaving to go to work. It's the same impact when we're talking about that. I will agree with you that there are most likely extended hours for um a uh for a residential use. You do have but for the most part the
peak is the same time that people are leaving, right? You I leave my office at I leave my office at 6:30 or 7, but I'm the abnormality. If I leave at 5:30, I'm getting home at 6 just like if I were um coming from the residential, right? and
I was coming back to where I was going. So I think you have the same peak impact when you start to look at how it extends out over that time. There will naturally be people that are coming uh later than that to the depression. But
>> from a traffic standpoint, it still falls well below what we would consider significant. You're talking about a car or two here and there in an hour, which I don't think really creates much of an impact. Um I do think out the site taking a look what's out there. There is
some capability of potential landscaping at the southern end of the property to kind of potentially screen. You can't block it because the the driveway is there and you can't put things in the sight triangles to make sure people can safely eress, but there's probably some capability of planting low-lying shrubs
that would block headlights as you were parking from either the neighbors or the people on the other side of camp. And I I think that's a good suggestion. I just don't see the fact that whichever type of use you put in here, you're still going to be having people driving down that aisle um to to access the site.
>> We just had the almost the same application at 73 West End with the circulation the came and we that was closed off and it was all the circulation was to West End. No, I understand what you're saying. It's not a major access permit and the apron most
likely cannot the widthwise can't handle two-way circulation. But then you you question the volume issues and the bypass lanes. But I understand where you're going from with this. I get it. >> Anyone else on the board have any
questions of the testimony for Mr. Taylor? >> I just have one. Um, your supposition is that everybody there will be working a nineto-five job. I I worked half of my career at a manufacturing plant and I went in at 7
in the morning, 3 in the afternoon, midnight, weekends, holidays and one of the takeaways we had from a seminar that we had was 60% of the American workforce works other than a nineto-ive job.
>> So I I absolutely agree with you, Mr. And that's one of the reasons, it's one of the arguments I have to make a lot of times of why aren't there eight trips coming out or if there's a two-bedroom apartment, why aren't there 16 cars leaving in the morning when you have eight apartments? And it's exactly the phenomenon that you're talking about is
I I like to use the example of me and my wife, right? My wife works about at 45 minutes away. So, she leaves almost an hour earlier than I do. So, actually over an hour earlier. And so, we don't fall within that same peak hour. We're both leaving. But from an impact to the
surrounding roadway network, we're not in that same peak hour. And so I I do agree with you that you're going to have a striation of time of people coming out ranging anywhere from 6:30 to 9. Um, you know, from a from a residential perspective, but that's no different than flexible work hours as people are
coming in and out of the office as well. >> Yeah, the dynamic has changed ever since. >> Okay. Anyone else? Anyone from the audience? >> Yes, please come forward. >> For the record, state your name and
address. Spell your last name. >> Yeah, the microphone is right there. >> Uh David Lang, 18 Cam Place in Somerville. Uh LG G. Uh I heard the statistics. Uh I
from a point of view of just historically I've lived here for the last 20 years and the you know Monday through Friday versus 247 and uh the circulation problems and you know people living there and when when
this board has considered uh a change of use they have closed that for the good of the uh of the neighborhood. Can is that still or do we do do we have to just base it upon some statistic? Is is that something that you
guys are going to be able to consider is our our quality of life because it in reality it will change people moving in and out all the time and uh it's just a concern for us is uh do you guys get that flexibility?
>> We have that flexibility. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Anyone else in the audience have any questions of Mr. Taylor? >> Thank you very much.
>> Um, our next witness is our civil engineer, Ted Bayer from Bayer Ree Engineering. Mike, one question is is Mr. Taylor. Who's going to address the Make Ready EV parking spaces for Make Ready? You are
>> I can't but Ted. >> Oh, would you please raise your right hand? You solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth. So help you God. >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last name for the record. >> My name is Theodore Bayer. B A Y E R.
>> Thank you. Mr. Rodnik. >> Mr. Bayer, are you a a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey? >> Yes, I am. How long you've been practicing civil engineering? >> I received my professional engineers license in 1989 and I've been practicing uh civil engineering since that time.
>> And have you appeared before land use boards in your history? >> Yes, I have. And uh like Mr. Taylor said, I've I've appeared before many many boards, but never in front of the burough of Somerville sports. Welcome. >> Nice to meet you all. Could you kindly
review the site plan, grading, lighting, utility for the existing and proposed site conditions? >> Yes, I can. >> Thank you. First off, and my plan north is towards the top of the paper as opposed to the architect's plans which
were down. I can turn this over if you like if you want to have some consistency. Uh but uh >> we're flexible. >> Okay, great. All right. Thank you very much then. Okay. The uh what we were tasked with was coming up with a grading
storm water and lighting plan for the property. Uh so we were constrained with the existing storm water uh constraints. I I'll start with that first. Uh right now in the rear of the property there is a
catch basin uh just in the corner between the garage and the back of the property that has some inlets that picks up some drains from the building itself. Uh and it the grade itself is depressed so water from the parking lot will flow
into it. There is a pipe that exits that and travels in a southerntherly direction down towards Cayman Place to a cross trench uh a trench drain that crosses across the existing driveway. From there, there's a outlet pipe that
goes down to a storm water catch basin on the uh on the back street. So what we uh what we did, excuse me, in the proposal uh we in order to comply with the parking requirements which was which was put put forth earlier, two
additional park parking spaces are being provided on either side of the driveway and uh those are being uh graded such that they will flow towards the uh existing driveway and then on down uh
through the trench drain and down to the the catch on on the back street. Uh what we've also said is that all of the roof down spouts and leaders will be connected and discharged into that system. Uh the one ones on the west side
of the property will go into the uh a pipe that goes down. Uh the eastern side properties uh side of the property, they will go into that existing uh catch basin. And uh I did look while we were speaking earlier, well
this came up about that uh access ramp, the wheel the wheelchair accessibility ramp and uh we can accommodate that on the west side of the building. Uh the right now the parking spaces, the ADA spaces, there's a van accessible space
and additional space on the uh the northern side of the parking lot closest to the building. Uh, in order to accommodate a ramp, I I I believe I I scaled it from if we're going to have a a door entrance just behind the garage, uh, I I believe it was aboutund and 100
some odd feet. All right, we were Yeah, just about 100 120 ft to the southern side of the van accessible space. In order to comply with the 8.33%, I'm going to have to slide those
those 88 spaces down uh about one probably one space. So, the first space against the north side of the parking lot would be a conventional parking space. We'd slide the 88 spaces down and with the depressed curb, we could come up with an 8.33% ramp and provide access. So, that would uh put
that that issue to rest about the lift. uh as as uh the architect testified, he has my plans have not changed. These are the ones that were submitted uh a week ago, two weeks ago. Uh uh we can fit a 3- foot wide sidewalk with a with a ramp
going up to the accessibility to the front uh parking lot. So, I'm sorry, the front apartment. So, that would work. So, we'd have an ADA accessibility route on either side of the building so that all those apartments are accessible. Uh the other things that we did were uh
look at trash and recycling. Uh there was a there was a uh review letter from the Somerset County Planning Board and they wanted us to demonstrate that their trash truck could access this property. We don't have given the existing
configuration the constraints we can't use their truck. So we're going to have a private hauler. And I have with me tonight, before I get to that, we we've shown a uh a cubic six cubic yard and four cubic yard uh dumpsters for trash and
recycling. They'd be accessible where the trash truck would drive in. Uh we'd have a little stripe there with no parking, but he would drive straight in. Uh there's a trash enclosure gates will open up and uh he can use his forks, pick up those things, and then he would
drive on out the back. And I have a circulation plan for that that I can distribute. I think that'll have to be marked as an exhibit. Mr. >> Yes, it should be marked A4. >> Please date it. >> I guess he won't mind if I do it. >> I don't mind if you do it, but but it
needs to be done. >> And you can give a summary when you put a summary on the record of what that exhibit is. >> Yes, I will. Okay, very good. Thank you for bringing additional copies. Okay,
>> thank you. >> Michael, you want mine? Thank you. Okay, this this plan I just uh passed out is a uh a vehicle turning analysis. It's for the trash truck. And this trash
truck is a Mac Terrapro cabover. Uh it overall length is 28.61 ft and uh it's got the wheelbase of 12.33 feet. It's basically the forks in the front. So, the truck will drive in off of uh West
End Avenue, come in, and as uh we've shown on our site plan, as we saw on our site plan here, uh we're going to actually move the curb line to the east uh against the uh the eastern property line, but provide a
striped area that's going to say, you know, no parking. So, that that'll provide access for the trash truck to come in. you can open up the gates and the gates are uh detailed over here on our plan. So, he'll be able to drive in and as shown on the traffic circulation
plan, you can see his wheels uh coming in and then he'll pick up the uh the two dumpsters and he'll back up and then drive on out. And we've shown in the solid line his wheel track and the dotted line uh that a little bit out that that's the uh the back of the cab,
the back of the body of the truck. So, what we've shown is uh that that truck can come in and do that. And that's a uh a commercially available truck. Unfortunately, it doesn't it doesn't uh match what Somerset County has. So, that's why we're going with the private holder.
Okay. Uh we also did some landscaping landscaping work and I noticed Cole's memo. I had the wrong Latin description of our ink berry things. We can we can change that. That's what we provided is some uh some screening on the eastern side, a couple of trees coming out and
some trees being proposed uh to to screen from the back, some uh shade trees as required. We were required to put in three shade trees. We proposed four. And uh the ones in the front are the uh uh a little maple tree that
doesn't grow its maximum tree height at growth height to maturity about 25 ft. So we'll stay away from overhead lines and things like that. and our overhead lines out there. The lighting uh is on my second sheet. I was prepared in case I had to turn it over. I had clips on both the top and
the bottom. So on the second sheet here, we show the uh the extent of the the lighting. We've shown the the maximum and the minimum, and we've shown that there's a uniformity ratio of 4:1, which again was in accordance with Mr. Kohl's uh letter.
Uh we have the fixtures uh the details of the fixtures and they're uh fairly fairly decorative but antique looking uh but they're LEDs so they'll they'll shine down. Uh also on this plan we showed the uh show the detail that the
that clapboard fence trash enclosure so that the uh dumpsters will be enclosed and that is basically uh we have the I'm sorry the the pavement detail the curbing detail that were also uh requested and and the sign details requested by Mr. Cole. So I think we
comply pretty much with uh all of his requirements in his letter. Your lighting shows 0.1 Your lighting shows 0.1 foot candles at the driveway entrance off of West End. Are you proposing to change that or are you still proposing 0.1 foot candles
which doesn't comply >> up at the west end side? >> Yes. What we've done is we said we proposed a uh put a note on there we could take a night lighting test and and the lighting will be dimable. So if we find that it is over over uh zero, we can dimin that
down. So >> Oh, no. I'm saying you don't have enough light. >> Oh, the other way around. You're showing 0.1 and the report >> the 0.1 on your foot candles. If you see near the driveway entrance, you have almost no light. >> So I raised the question, you should
have at least.3 foot candles, which the plan has 0.1. So we can we can add one fixture out there so that we can uh increase that so that we'll have enough light coming in. >> Big question I had for you and I I don't know if it's for the other engineer is
the make ready. I think you're triggered on the make ready because of the four spaces. If it wasn't for the four spaces, you wouldn't have an EV charging mandate. Period. >> Right. >> All right. So, if you the four triggers it,
my read is the make ready has to be van accessible. Okay. Therefore, you're you're locked into two van accessibles. >> Correct. >> One because it's less than 25 and one for make ready. And you can't combine them because of the signage. is
prohibits none for using the van accessible EV charging space which is crazy but that's how it rules reads >> okay now if we agree on that the plan doesn't comply because in van accessible
the accessible aisle has to be on the right you have them both when only you have one on the right you have the other one on the left therefore it doesn't work >> understood I and I was when I was reading your review port your report from the other day I was saying I I I
didn't understand that it was to make ready space but I can I've looked at the configuration what we would do would be to as I said earlier in in order to uh give ourselves a a ADA accessibility ramp, I'm going to slide
the ADA spaces to the to the south. And what we can do is I have a sufficient area that I need an 8 foot 8 foot wide aisle for that make ready space. And so we would slide everything down and that last parking space would come closer to
the property line uh on the south. But I can I can fit that in there. I did look at that configuration. >> Okay. As long as you can make it work with >> Yeah, I I I didn't understand where where the uh the citation came from, but I did look at it and I saw that we can we can make that phys physically work.
>> I gave you the link because it's hard it's hard to believe for non New Jersey what's going on here because >> you have essentially two van accessible spaces required when the federal code requires one, >> right? However, you have to round up
with the EV parking. You're stuck even with three spaces providing a EV charging van accessible and angle parking. It goes to the right which causes problems here. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you for the clarification because it is >> Look, I
>> it's New Jersey. I understand. >> It's New Jersey. Gas. Can you um I'm looking at the uh landscaping plan and thinking about the ramp that we're talking about going around the garage.
Also, the dumpsters. >> How does how um how do the dumpsters and that potential ramp affect the landscaping plan? >> Okay. Well, we're not showing any landscaping in front of the dumpsters. Uh what we have is the uh the stockade fence. so
that they'll be blocked from view that way. So, that'll provide a screen there. Uh on the west side of the property, uh there were just a uh a couple of trees, existing existing trees that are there. They will have to come out to provide for the sidewalk and
the ramp on that west side. >> Yeah. The the plan I'm looking at has a couple of northern red oaks where the dumpsters are now going to be. Is that right? We're proposing one northern red oak on the south side of the dumpster. >> So, it's okay. It's still going to be
it's going to coexist with the dumpster. >> That's correct. Okay. That's correct. >> Okay. And then the uh the landscape plan also has a whole bunch of uh are they eastern red cedars >> that look like they're going to be removed to provide that striped area for
the truck? >> That's correct. >> How many are going to be removed? I don't have that at hand. >> Okay. But it's it sounds like some will need to be removed. >> Yes, it is because we want to provide
that that triangular stripe space so that the truck can get in there. >> Okay. >> How does the garbage truck exit the property? >> Okay. So, if you look at the the handout I just uh shared, the garbage truck drives in
to the dumpsters, and both of those dumpsters on wheels so he can put them in front of his forks. He's then going to back up and turn. There's a bend to his right and then to his left, and he's going to come out and he'll make a right onto Cayman Place.
And that's that's the track that's shown there. And then where you now included this striped area, does that do more lot coverage, more more madam? >> Yes. And I believe the architect took
that into account on his imper impervious coverage calculation. >> It does that might that's the updated number. >> It's going to change again now because because of the uh the 88 ramp on the west side of the property. >> Uh but I he he had updated at this point I believe. and the generator.
>> And the gener >> if we have that ADA ramp, we don't need a generator because there's no lift. However, if they do propose a generator, that would increase the impervious coverage. That's correct. >> Now, let's talk about that streeting
on the property or the rightway because using the D's definition, which I think every municipality has to use, it's not technically a street tree. On the plans I reviewed, it was was not in the rightway and didn't meet the definition of a street tree
>> because it's not in the right way. >> Correct. >> Okay. We can adjust I we can move that up into the rightway. >> It's the board's pleasure. It's underneath the utility polls. It's it's it's I'm just I understand you are listing as a street tree. I'm just clarifying that
>> we can we can put it in its proper place. >> It's something with a low canopy, >> right? All right. It's a low canopy. >> It's a low canopy tree. It's low canopy maple tree. So we >> Okay. >> We'll have to comply with the DOT's requirements also because it is a state highway. Whether we can put it in that
right away or >> right >> we may have to change the definition of it. >> Let's talk about I didn't hear mention the sanitary sewer lateral. >> Okay. So yes, uh there are I was in the basement of a building a few months ago. There's two sanitary lateral, two
sanitary drops and pipes that go out. They're cast iron and what we intend to do is televise them and uh determine their condition uh and if they have to be upgraded. I've done this uh in other municipalities also. I did it down in Princeton a couple years ago where we
televised out to the sanitary sewer and determine the condition of the of this cast iron pipe and if we had to replace it would be replaced. >> And and we can clearly make you know arrangements with you guys to come out and watch it. Are there any sump pumps or French drains in the current basement?
>> Sump pumps or >> I Yeah, I'm just trying to think back. I was down there. I believe there is a sump pump. Yeah, there is a sump pump there. There's one actually. There's one. I know there's one on the west side. I think there might be one on the
east side also. And what they're going what I don't do windows, but in the window wells, we'll have to uh we'll have to put in either uh a sump drain and I did look a little bit at the at the inverts
uh depending on the depth of that window well. We would have to run a pipe all the way down to the trench drain because I have enough pitch to do that at 1%. That's about 150 ft. Uh or we may I don't think I want to put a some pump in each window well, but I may route them
to one common so pump and pump that into the uh the catch basin here. But we can we can do that. That's not >> back to a generator. >> Right. >> Pardon me. >> Now you're back to a generator. >> If I can't do it by gravity, you're correct. >> But at at first blush, just when I was
sitting here with my scale, I I we can It's a lot of piping to get down there, but at 1% I can get there. Yeah. >> And the existing catch basins, you I saw your calcs. You're good for at least a 10-year storm. Yes, we are based on the existing conveyance system.
>> That's correct. And I was out when I was out there, I did measure all the pipes. I did measure the invert. So, I'm I'm very confident in their sizing and they uh they look pretty clean. I obviously some maintenance will be required, but other other than that, yes, they can can carry that storm. >> We don't do 10year storms anymore
>> for existing conditions. Typically the board looks at 10 to 25 to give it's it's throwing the applicant a bone saying 10 not 25 because he wouldn't comply with 25 >> but he would comply with 10. >> Yeah. >> The question is what is it >> right?
>> That street does street he gets floody up in that street. >> Art I had a qu I had a question. Um basement are notoriously damp. What if any provisions have you made for
um possible groundwater infiltration into the basement? I think you had someone had mentioned a dehumidifier system, but is that enough? >> I did not look at that as a site engineer. I I would that would be more on the architect I would say. But um
>> you know if if there's some pumps there so that the sump pumps could work and they can discharge into our our manifold system to collect where the down spouts are collected. >> That doesn't necessarily alleviate dampness. >> Dampness. That's correct. Ma'am, >> so that's
who's considered that? We are uh I put notes under the the basement plans to show that we are providing additional waterproofing and the HVAC uh specialist said that he
would provide additional ventilation. So between the additional waterproofing around the basement and under the slab where it it's needed and uh with the air uh uh filtration system should be enough
to get rid of any dampness in the in the basement. >> So we're keeping our fingers crossed. >> No, we're keeping the water from coming in and we're taking any humidity out. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? So the the four new parking spots that you have there, do they drain
out to Cayman Place? >> We have them pitched at 2% back towards the trench drain. If you look if you look on uh my sheet one >> Yeah. >> Uh if you look at each of those the four
the four new parking spaces are are shaded in gray and you can see there's an arrow that says 30 30 linear feet at 2% for example on the uh the northernmost one on the east side. They're they're all sloped in that direction so that the water will get into that trench drain
>> for all the spaces because I think some of it drains the Cayman. >> I don't think you're going to catch it all based on the grades. >> And and I'm looking at also with that it looks like where the uh at the southernmost part on the last two spots
the water would collect right there. It wouldn't drain out to Cayman Place. It would stay there. 6193 tough curb. >> There's a high point in those spaces. Not all of it drains to on site. Some of the cheap flows onto Cayman.
>> I understand back. Well, here's a spot shot right here. 6206 and here's 6186. So, that goes that way. But I thought that we can get this way. We got 6228. I can pick that up. I I could put in another trench drain that would that
would go across the back of those spaces and that would any of that new impervious coverage would I can put another trench train in and discharge to the existing train so that we can uh get it all to there. And because I'm going to have to uh reconfigure the westside parking spaces
anyway, I'll be I'll be able to uh pick up the the grading and make sure that we get the storm water into that into that trench drain because I I don't want to increase any any runoff onto the the back parking the back street. >> Anybody else have any questions? >> Anyone from the audience have any
questions for Mr. Taylor? David Lang, LG 18 came in and place in Somerville. Uh, will the lighting be on timers? Currently, the there's one light on the back of the garage that lights up based upon uh movement and uh there's
another one on the side of the house that again turns on based upon movement after dark. So, there are they going to be 247 or will those actually turn off? No, all and this is a note. >> I have a note on the plan. It says all lighting will be on timers so that it
can be can be. >> Do you know what the timing is going to be? >> It would be at the uh discretion of the board. Uh whatever the hours would would be, we can we can do that. I do believe there was a requirement for security
lighting during low activity and I think the applicant said it will comply but the security lighting to answer your question has not been shown. in the report saying what is the security lighting along with some other lighting questions like the light temperature. I don't think the plan says what the color
temperature I understand it's LED. I understand you provided lumens but you're not giving me the light color which is 3,000 Kelvin 3500 I us coefficient works but some of the lighting's deficient and the security lighting is hasn't been addressed other
than it will comply. Okay, we can we can add those fixtures, see what it's going to be at security. >> How tall are they and what kind of spillage will there be onto adjacent properties? >> He doesn't have any like trespass. I've spent a lot of time on these plans. >> Yeah, the lighting
>> way too much time. >> The lighting fixes are 10 feet tall. >> No, he doesn't have any light trespass. This is defined in the code by more than.5 foot candles. I don't think there's any areas where you have light trespass over.5 foot candles. So it
doesn't have light trespass. This is some deficiency in security we talked about, but I don't see any uh light trespass. >> Okay. And uh one last question. Is there a picture on the plan because of where I sit that shows where the fixtures are going to be?
>> Yes. Uh I'm interested particularly on the uh I guess would be the eastern side, the right hand side. >> There's one right here. >> Okay. >> There's another one here
and the other one's on the other side. >> Okay. And you said there'll be no spillage on the other side of that. Yeah, there's no if you look at the the the light levels depicted on the plan show less than.5 foot candles on the adjacent on the adjoining properties.
Therefore, he's complying with the burough ordinance requiring point less than.5 foot candles. The wall lights were changed from wall packs to gooseenecks and I had some comments regarding whether the because the bulb and the goose necks extends below the
shield so they're not full cut off whether they comply. And I think the applicant is saying they will comply with the burough ordinance. I just didn't have the information. It's about glare. You don't want to have a bulb and have glare. So you have full cut off. It's fancy way of saying the the bulb is
shielded the source of illumination on the decorative wall packs is what the the engineer is showing you. That sticks below the shielding. So it's not the end of the world. I didn't have the information. >> Okay. Thank you.
Anyone else have any questions? >> Um, I'd like to request a fivem minute recess to have some discussions with my client, Mr. Cole. >> Sounds good to me. >> Thank you. Okay, there we go.
Okay, we're back in session. >> Oh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um so just we had some discussions uh internally with the professionals and what we intend to do is um request an adjournment without notice to come back.
Uh we're going to try to make the November hearing uh understanding that we have to have our plans in 10 days prior. Uh if we don't make that meeting then we'll have to address it at that point. November is 281 West Main which
is the other uh this applicant's other project. Right. >> And then in December, we have an appeal for Top Asian Fusion, >> right? >> And what's the other one, Ryan? >> The next meeting is January 21. >> Okay. >> That's the new meeting. We don't have
any other meetings in >> per tonight. We don't have any other meetings in December, >> right? Just November and December. So um preliminarily what we want to do is um provide some revisions to the architectural floor plans uh removing
the basement apartments um which does a lot of things that I think helps this application uh with respect to the relief for F maximum improvement uh because we don't need as many ADA spots and that eliminates some of the impervious. Uh we're going to
revise the floor plans um and you know look at the basement in a different way uh not as a uh as a habitable area but as a wreck area which will provide some additional square footage for at least some of those units uh and storage and
things like that. Um, we don't want to change the uh Cayman ingress and or egress I should say because that's how it's designed and and with this moving down to six apartments, we think it's negligible impact. We're going to revise
the site plan to provide for the handicap ramp. Uh we're going to address the HVAC uh and the and the generator uh with noise compliance regulations and locations on the site plan and then of course update our F and maximum
improvement area uh related to the site plan changes necessitated by in on one hand adding the ramp on the other hand removing some impervious and then we'll also um update the security lighting and temp so we can have that fully addressed. So we would ask for the
matter to be carried to allow for some revisions from our engineer and our architect who we will introduce uh as our witnesses along with planning once we get >> carry it to next year. >> Um well we would like to carry it to
November because we're here that night anyway. Um it's going to be a bit of a race to get the plans in. >> Tough will be tough. >> What do you think? Uh, personally, I don't think we're going to have enough time in November to hear both
applications. December maybe. Um, but if we don't hear it in November and we gets pushed to December, we're going to have to put it after the appeal. Um, because we have a certain we have 120 days from when that was submitted to make a decision on it. And then if we don't hear it in November or December, it's going to go to January.
>> Ryan, what about the time to act? Time for the board to act. Would it >> you extend that time? >> Yes. >> Yes. Please. >> Time of decision would expire on November 13th. November 13th. >> So, we will need an extension of time from your client. >> Yeah, that's fine.
>> If this hearing cannot take place on November 4th, which is I guess the next day, uh it would be my recommendation to the board that we that we ask you to do a renotice. >> That's acceptable.
I mean, I don't know whether we can what we can do in November with this, but uh you've got your work cut out for you to get everything in there for the November meeting given the 10day rule, >> right? And we already have got through the bulk of the testimony for the east
>> east main project. So, I I think it's storm water was the big, you know, there were some questions and some fit and finish on some of the on some of the elevations, but I don't see that being more than >> Mr. Cole, do you think that's an acceptable timetable?
>> It's all when they get the get it in uh that >> we just don't want to be, you know, getting into conflict over this in in a couple of weeks. You know, we want to make sure you understand where we are with this and we want to understand where you are with this in terms of
getting all this stuff in. It's >> easy for me to commit to deadlines that I don't have to do any work for. >> No, no, I know. I I understand. I understand. I have to be careful. >> We're going to make every attempt uh to get it done because I I think that's going to be the lightest meeting coming up. I'm at all the other ones for the
rest of the year. So, I think those other ones are going to take a little more time. >> I just don't want to put Mike in a position where running around like this trying to meet the deadlines. >> All right. I understand, Mr. Chairman. I agree. >> The discussion was hopefully 33 pages
goes to 10 pages. That's the intent that applicant can clean this up and we can have the information. I'm a little concerned about the sound data. It's out there, but you might find that it doesn't comply based on >> distance to the property line, >> right? And that might take a little I'm
not saying you can't do it. Absolutely can do it. It's just a question of that takes time up to get that. >> We'll try to propose some >> what I don't want is you submit something it doesn't comply and it forces me to write more comments which I don't want to do. >> Right. I think everybody hears you about
I mean I and this is why this was useful that we can kind of flush out all these issues. So it is understood that uh if we go beyond November 4, you will renotice and um needless to say, we will
>> Yeah, we'll continue uh you will provide us with the extension of time so there will not be a default approval. >> Certainly. >> Okay. We're going to continue this until
the future and if it goes past November 4th, then he will be required to to renotice. >> Excuse me, Art. >> Yes. >> I I I think the next meeting is November 5th. The 4th is election day, so that would be a Tuesday.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. I mean, >> yeah, just to clarify, a November meeting would be November 5th and December would be December 3rd. Okay. So, is there any other business coming before the board? >> Keep this open until
just Yeah, we should make a motion to go to memorialize what we just said. >> What did we just say? >> We said continue this. >> I'll make it to November 5th. >> November 5th. But if it does not go to November 5th and it moves to a
subsequent date, it will have to be public. It will have to be renoticed under the MLU. Well, >> okay. So, would like to move that? >> I'll move it. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second. Second. Roll, please. >> Chairman Dair. >> Yes. >> Roberto Carpinets. >> Yes.
>> Morgan McLaclin? >> Yes. >> Rich O'Neal? >> Yes. >> John Flores? >> Yes. >> Eric Alvarez? >> Yes. >> Any other business? Uh I talked with uh well we had a meeting several years ago uh Somerville
rar and Bridgewater planning and zoning board. It's just a workshop and get find out what others were doing and at that time was in its infancy and they were like you guys televise your meetings.
Yeah, we don't not live streaming, but one of the things that came out of in Ritton, their board secretary was a voting member. I talked with Ryan today about that. I have a meeting with uh the mayor
tomorrow and uh planning. I'm going to bring that up. We can do some research on it. If in a situation where >> in a situation where was a devariance. We only have like four people with five people. The secretary
and could vote so that we would have a quarum. >> I'm Mr. Chairman, I'm I'm not especially in support of that. >> Okay. I don't believe that complies with the I I I I know there are a lot of imaginative
uh things being done to you know if you will circumvent the uh requirements under the open public meetings act and quorum and voting requirements. I don't know that having the secretary as a as a voting member
would necessarily pass judicial muster to be perfectly blunt about it. I'm not trying to insult our our secretary in any way. I'm just I uh believe that procedurally it could cause some difficulty. And the worst
thing you want to have happen is have a denial or approval kicked out because you didn't pay attention to the, if you will, the nicities of the of the law. I know again I know there are some towns
I've got I I I have a town right now where I have a husband and wife both on the board and I mean they have determined that you know they'll do that and take the risk. Well that's fine but here I believe the board would be taking
such a risk and I don't think it's advisable. >> Okay. >> Okay. or Cliff, isn't there some case law that if the secretary is over 50, they can vote? >> Okay. >> How about members over 75? Can they
vote? >> Rich, they they get two votes. >> Does the board attorney Well, does the board attorney get a vote? I I just I just turned 64 today, so I mean >> Well, happy birthday. >> Happy birthday.
>> 64. Oh, no. It's all right. Listen, I can't I'm very Listen, I'm very pleased to be here, and I'm not trying to I I understand the the the approach to that, but last thing I want is to is to have a
superior court judge say, "Nice try, guys. Do it again." >> Happy birthday, Cliff, but I was at age once. >> Ryan, you're not 50 yet, are you? >> I hope. >> I don't know where the years I don't know where the years go. Motion to adjurnn.
>> I've been doing these meetings for four years and I don't know where the time goes. >> Did we Did we adjourn? >> We're getting ready to. >> Oh, all right. >> Morgan made a motion. Rich second it. All in favor? I post.