Everybody signed in. Ruth, >> we're we're on. >> Welcome everyone. Good evening on this third day uh of August at the South Ben Community School Corporation Administration Building. Uh, the board had a close session at 4
pm and I'm now calling this meeting to order. Mr. Hernandez, can you please call the role? >> Good evening. Mr. Marcus Ellison, >> present. >> Mr. Marcus, >> here. >> Dr. Janette McCulla, >> present. >> Mr. Billki,
>> here. >> Miss Kate Lee, >> here. >> Mr. Carlos Lea, >> present. >> Dr. Mr. Green >> here. >> Thank you, Mr. Hernandez. >> So, we have a quorum and we can now move
to the adoption of the agenda. Uh, it is recommended that the board of school trustees adopt the agenda. Uh, do we have a motion and a second to approve? >> Motion to approve. >> Thank you, Mr. Mr. Ellison. >> Second.
>> Thank you, Mr. Costello. Uh, the motion has been moved and seconded. Miss Hernandez, will you please call the role? >> Mr. Ellison, >> I. >> Mr. Costello, >> I. >> Dr. McCulla, >> I. >> Mr. Snediki, >> I. >> Miss Lee, >> I,
>> Mr. Lever, >> I, >> Dr. Green, >> I. The motion to approve the agenda has passed by a vote of seven to zero. It's unanimous. Thank you again, Mr. Hernandez. And now it's time for recognitions and superintendent announcements. So it's over to you, Mr.
Eid. >> Good evening, Dr. Green, school board members, members of the public. Uh, today we have u two items on the superintendent announcement, strategic
plan and principal cafe. And I have a very short presentation about that. So basically for the strategic plan um we had a planning team retreat schedule.
We are working with the ISBA. We're going to discuss or introduce Principal Cafil. We're going to talk about the shifting student demographics, the strategic direction including cultural competency and then
what is the timeline to completion. So they are they complement each other. They do not uh pose different points of view. The strategic plan and Dr. Cafe complement each other. So
this is Yes, thanks. >> The plan we are starting or we have already convened the planning team. We engaged the ISBA and we contracted
with them and with the help of um Steve Horton and Derek. We are putting together a survey. Actually, the survey has been
put together and I can uh get a link. We will be sending a link out to the public to respond to the survey. The survey is basically a it's a comprehensive needs assessment to our district. What is it
that we need to be looking at? uh where do we start and how do we get things together towards meeting those needs or to basically get
resources to help take care of these needs. Uh so we are right now identifying key stakeholders and we have started sending out invitations to
uh we started with the board members because every board member will be uh an integral part of the different committee that will be formed. Um we have sent emails to some of our community
partners. Uh some of the principles volunteered to be on this. We will be including the teachers, the teachers unions and we will be including the board candidates who will be u running for
board so that they can be part of this strategic plan and they will know it they will know all the parts of this strategic plan before joining the board
in January. The teams for the strategic plan will have these five meetings and they will be from 5 to 7:30 2 and 1/2 hours every meeting. We're calling them retreats.
uh we had to give people the information so that they can plan and or withdraw if they are unable to commit to these five dates. Um we are looking at coming up
between five and seven goals. Uh we don't want to have too many goals. We don't want the this simply to be an exercise in you know uh we don't want this to be a
debate club. We don't want this to be a just you know lip service. We want to do the right thing for our schools. We want people who are committed. We want people who are looking at creating these goals
and we want to take these goals and run with them. We want to create goals that will be achieved. We want to create goals that will be uh tangible.
Something that we will be able to see the results hopefully within a year or two. Nothing 10 20 years down the line. And we the finalized strategic plan is
targeted for completion in December of 2026. So this this is where Principal Cafe comes in. He is nationally recognized for his student centered philosophy of meeting learners where they are. He has
visited Southbend actually at least three times but most recently last year uh he was invited by RiseUp Academy. Um he is an expert in cultural competency
and right now this is in high demand in this country. Uh we have already met with him and to discuss what he can do for our district and how he can help guide at least one
of our goals has to do with cultural competency and he would complement and supplement that goal as we move forward. Um
the plan is to have him in [clears throat] South Bend for three visits in the fall and three visits in the spring. So this cultural competency comes because of shifting demographics. We
looked at the numbers when the consent decree was issued 1980. Uh the population, the Caucasian population was 77% back then.
Right now it is 23%. Black population was 23% back then. It is 38% now. The Hispanic population was not counted
back then. It is 27% now. When the consent decree was issued, uh in power school we have something or back then it used to be the AS400. Number one native Indian. Number two was
black. Number three was Hispanic. Number four was white or five was white. Four was Asian. And we stopped at five. Number six was added after a while, which was mixed. So
back when the consent decree was written, mixed race was not part of the equation. So right now we are looking at if you look at 38 and 10
that's 48% that's that's almost 50%. So, our demographics have shifted and it behooves us to work on establishing
some kind of cultural competency that we all can move forward with. We're going to start with the instruction. So, Principal Cafe will be meeting with the leadership with the instructors
and we are looking at changing the school culture and eventually family and community engagement. So, this cultural competency is not limited
to one aspect of the school. It is it's comprehensive. It covers everything. With this timeline, hopefully we will have a good sense of direction by December.
During this time, Principal Cafe will will have visited with us three times and planning on visiting in the spring three more times. And with that,
I hope I painted a picture. I know I'm using a wide brush to to paint. And as we move along, we will take the smaller brushes and add the details.
>> Thank you, Mr. Eid. I really appreciate that. Uh we will now have a hearing of visitors on action item 9.01. 01 which is tonight the first reading of policies. Uh but I see that
>> there are none signed up. >> Uh therefore as you know we'll move on to the next item on the agenda 6.01. >> The public is also invited to address the board for three minutes regarding action items not on the agenda.
Individuals may only speak once during this section of the agenda. Speakers shall properly identify themselves after they approach the podium with their name and address for the record. Personnel issues are not to be addressed during open session. In addition, no person may
address or question board members individually. The board president may interrupt, warn, or terminate a person statement if the statement becomes personally directive, abusive, or obscene. Please come to the podium if you wish to speak. June Pritchard 5800 Summit Hill Court.
We all know a referendum is expiring in a few years and we all know there's good chance another won't pass. That means more school closures unless enrollment drastically improves. Southbend does not need the sabotage strategy like the clay
debacle to close schools. Instead, why don't you impress the business world by employing free market principles? Flip the power structure pyramid by putting teachers, parents, and principles in charge. Turn your central office from
the CL Kremlin to the White House. Look at it like this. Our bodies have an autonomic nervous system that covers breathing, heartbeating, digestion, etc. The system runs quietly in the background. An auto autonomic school
administration will have meals magically appear, buses show up, snows get plowed, bills get paid. That is all good. Edit educationally though is not autonomic. Well, why not allow teachers and principles to do their jobs and make the
decisions that are best for their individual schools? They know their neighborhoods. The Kremlin, I don't know. Now, parents go to the school with their concerns, but the teachers and principles have little authority to fix anything. When there are disciplinary
situations, it should ultimately be up to the teacher, the principal, and the parent to discipline the child. So if a principal wants say classes for behaviorally challenged kids, the principal should have the freedom to set it up. After all, if his parents want
safe classrooms, he should provide it. Now if his schools fill fills, will kids I'm sorry. If his school fills with kids as a result, it stays open. We need to get rid of the cookie cutter solutions
from the Kremlin that will only work with some kids at some schools. For too long, you have been charging taxpayers for Cadillac educations, but too many kids are graduating with Ford Pinto diplomas.
So, I ask, treat your talented principles and teachers as professionals. This board needs to drastically reduce Kremlin funding. If there are administrators who are willing to assist individual schools when re assistance is requested,
maybe that should be funded. Please allow each school and carry seconds >> the freedom to determine their own futures. Thank you. Good evening. Tiana Batisadell, 330 Kfax Avenue, Southbin, Indiana. Tonight, I
want to speak about transparency, accountability, and action. Over the past several months, this board has considered significant initiatives, including revisions to the school resource officer agreement, changes to the student code of conduct, cultural
competency training, and now a district strategic plan. Yet, these initiatives have repeatedly come before the board without meaningful public engagement, despite the findings of the Reparatory Justice Commission and the federal consent decree. The families most
affected by these decisions should not learn about them after they are developed. Parents, students, educators, and community organizations deserve an opportunity to help shape these decisions before they reach this board. Because as a parent, I wouldn't be
paying for anybody that didn't come to the table with a plan already laid out. Telling me that hopefully we'll get something later is not good enough to this parent. I also have concerns about the district's hiring transparency. Today I
reviewed a sample of 10 individuals listed by the district as certified teacher hires. Based on the public licensing information available as of August 3rd, 2026, only two appeared to have credentials to
hold an active teaching license. The others appeared to hold expired substitute permits or no teaching credential that I could identify. If that sample is a representative, the district should explain how it is
defining certified and provide the public with accurate reporting on the qualifications of those hired to teach our children. The reparatory justice commission's documented long-standing disparities affecting black students and the federal consent decree requires this
district to address barriers to educational equity. Those obligations require more than isolated initiatives. They require a comprehensive, measurable strategy. That is why I continue to urge this board to adopt a black student achievement strategic plan through a
formal resolution. A resolution would commit this board to measurable goals, timelines, public progress reports, and accountability for improving outcomes for black students and their peers. It would align district policies, staffing,
professional learning, and resource allocation around one clear purpose, ensuring every black child and their peers has e equitable access to highquality education. The research has been done. The dear disparities are documented. The community has waited
long enough. Again, I respectfully ask this board to adopt a resolution establishing a black student achievement strategic plan and demonstrate that equity is not simply a statement of values, but a commitment to measurable
results. Thank you. >> John Paches 18420 Crown Hill Drive. Thinking about the topic of a policy, if that's going to be discussed tonight, and having no idea what policies are being brought up, I have another suggestion. If the board requires three
bids for building maintenance and upkeep and repairs, it should consider a similar policy for departmental proposals, including new programming, computer software, and related purchases. Too many times over the past five years,
I have come to meetings where a department speaks to the board. They have this wonderful presentation. Sometimes they vote, but we don't have any ideas of how was the vendor selected? Why was the vendor selected? Who made the ultimate decision? Did we
weigh our options? Is this the best price? All efforts should be made to get what will work for Southbend schools at the best value. And I also think in reviewing through this year the number of trips and travel that we need to come
up with a policy on trips and travel because it seems like a lot of money went out the door on airplanes, hotels, and other things. Thank you. Altha Jones, 1319 East Victoria Street. First of all, I'd like to just put a
exclamation mark on everything that Miss Tiana Batis Wadell just shared. I will only add one other thing. There's a lot to be said and as the weeks come, we will be having more and more
discussions on the issues before you. I would like to add and just simply say the black community, the black families has waited far too long
for real change. They waited far too long to have a real seat at the table represented by black representation. We feel that the resolution before you
will begin that process to not only give the black community a real voice at the table, but will include them in the planning and the decision makingaking process.
It's been far too long, meetings after meetings. And I I I want to say I don't hold too much stock in the strategic plan. I've seen enough of them. For whatever reason, they're not serving the black children.
And this board has given other demographics and have appeased other demographics. So much so that the president, you remember I shared an article with you where the
superintendent in May was quoted as apologizing to the mixed race and Latino community because he couldn't give their children their choice of school and program even though there is a policy that I
sent to you just recently 5120 that clearly states the superintendent does have the authority to assign schools and programs to students. So our question is who is able to take advantage of those
programs and those schools who prepare children for high school and for college. There's much too much too much to talk about to try to get into a lot right now. Three minutes. But we're hoping going forward >> 30 seconds
>> and with the meeting that we have prepared for you tomorrow will be a good beginning in some of you understanding what the dynamics are and it's certainly not because it hasn't been shared because over the years it certainly has been.
The public knows and our own president knows. He's got enough under his belt where you don't even really need to have a conversation whether or not that strategic plan is necessary up. >> It's necessary. It just takes you to
have the courage to implement it. Thank you. >> Good afternoon. Jesus Padrazza, principal of Edison. When it comes to educating students, I think the whole community has a responsibility to educate all students.
I'm not saying anything that black students don't need more support, but looking at the demographics, I think not just African-American students. is actually the statement um a vision statement on racial equity and
anti anti-racist policies on SPSSC penned by Stuart Green on 412 2021 when they you looked at it again in there it stated black and brown students were not being served
to the same level. I think one thing that we miss in the data, any student in poverty enters kindergarten below. As a community, instead of pointing fingers at each other, I think we need to work together to make sure
those in poverty, what can we do? PreK, other things. What we're doing here is it it's a start, but I think our whole community, everyone in South B needs to come together. What can we do to make sure that those in poverty get equal
access to education? Thank you. So, anyone else wish to speak? Seeing no one approach the podium, I want to thank everyone for sharing their concerns. >> So, we'll now move on to our academic focus. Uh there's been much discussion
about teacher lensure. So, um, we'll take that next. >> Welcome, Dr. Stevens. And good to see you. Good evening, school board of trustees.
Um, I'm very glad to be able to introduce this information to give you an update on um, our status in the South Bend schools and what we are doing as a collective. Um, we have been working in departmental. So, we've been working
with the superintendent's office, with the curriculum instruction department, and um also directly with principles in terms of uh specifying the need. So, I'm going to start the um presentation and
and I do want to proudly say that we started our effort into controlling the reigns of AI before it controlled us. So I just like to commend our superintendent for, you know, really
allowing us to push the lever on integrating AI not only in on boarding and FMLA but in presentation and data analysis. So you know this is a example of us not being afraid of what is going
to come. It is going to happen and we're we're ready and this presentation is a result of that. Okay. So, >> I could do that. Okay. So, we
uh we had been asked many times about the EPS and when is a teacher certified versus when is a teacher non-certified? is a guidance counselor a or can an EP
be issued to an immer uh guidance counselor. So we are hoping that by the end of this presentation we will be providing some answers some reassurance that
yes when we say a teacher is certified and they have an EP that emergency permit issued by the state is a license is a certification. Now there is some
responsibility that falls on our shoulders to make sure that that teacher is not simply in that classroom without any support. We have to give them the support. We have to give them the guidance. We have
to give them the mentorship. We have to make sure they follow up with the six credits required to take before the end of the year. So there is a lot that falls on our shoulder. and we are ready to take on this
responsibility. But before we do that, we're going to share some numbers. And before the numbers, I'm going to give you the historical context of the EPS. So the emergency permits were originally
started in the 1960s. Um, at that time it was the Vietnam War and there was a teacher shortage in this country and
many states found out that the only way to fill these uh shortages or to take care of them was to start issuing emergency permits. So
from 2022 to 2025, we started the grow your own programs. And in that grow your own program, they had to start with a an associate degree,
bachelor's degree, and enroll in a transition to teaching, which would give the candidate a three-year license. Those are licenses issued by the Department of Education.
>> We received a grant from Bloomboard and I believe we still have >> Yeah. We still have $100,000 left from the TSL funding. >> Yeah. in that Bloomboard grant and that is to work with anybody in the district
without a degree towards teacher lensure full teacher lensure not an EP. So in 2025 the board approved a position which is the mentor teacher facilitator
and they their first year was this last year and we have seen a shift from a freeforall EP to organized. you will
need to take these courses in order to maintain your license. You will be doing this. So there was a shift and I will pass it back to Dr. Stevens. >> Okay. So um so it's important uh to
explain that we have a decentralized hiring process. So the principles and their teams are the first uh interviewing um committee to interact with the um candidate. So
after we got the list together of all of the EPS, we knew exactly who um principles needed to be assisting. So, the curriculum and instruction department um got all of the principles
together, which they were a big help because they explained that here's what we're going to do moving forward. We're going to focus on the licensed people. We had two rounds of internals so that we can get all of the licensed people
placed during that time period if they had uh applied. Uh and then from there we informed the people holding EPS because uh here's what the state did during the teacher shortage. Uh the co
co really uh created a problem and then um so boards across the state became very aware that we have to create living wages for teachers. So those things were happening at the same time. So what people were doing is they could hold a
three-year license with a degree in one subject and then they would skip to the next subject. So we put an end to all of that by training the principles because they're the first point of contact and so principles now are very very aware of
that. Now uh is is it a process? It is because we had we have several people that just cannot, you know, pass the test quite yet. And so, of course, we have to create resources for them to
assist them in passing the test. They're EPS, but they've actually finished a program. So, they're in this number. If you see the number now, we're at 142. Now last year we were at 224.
So it is very deliberate what we're doing the steep decline uh because we're making people aware you've got to take those six credits. You have to be doing something uh towards your license. Even if you fail the test, you have to do
something towards your license. Um also um the the the biggest uh intervention is having their names and their progress monitoring listed through the mentor. She has Jessica Hoover have all of that
information now. So we have we have all of the information we need to help people on the teaching pathway. So uh if if you would look at this in 2023 uh we started with 21% 21 point uh 23%
of our indiv uh teachers and support staff. Okay, because that could include a counselor, it could include a principal um you know all of the areas that can get EPS. So we were at 21.23. So last year when we really started
focusing on this uh not just punishing people saying here is your pathway here is how we can get you a certification. So it really is to try to uh usher people into the profession and do it do
it with a traditional teaching license. So by the end of last year you know we were at 19.83. So this year at the top of it we have been very deliberate with speaking to people letting people first of all
filling those positions with as many certified people as we can. Uh in these situations there's always a crisis area and we're going to explain how special ed is a crisis area because special ed's
transition to teaching pathway is not the same. It's an alt ed pathway which is very different and a little bit more difficult. So we we do have to pay special attention to that. And so for the the next slide, um
>> can I >> Yes, >> if I may add here, of those 142 out of 988 um EPS, 50% of those more actually more
than 50% about 80 of them have already taken their six credits or else the state will not renew their license. And we had to make sure of that simply because if they did not do the six
credits in October when the state audits, they will not issue them a license if they had not done. So we had to make sure they have the six credits before we even sign them up.
>> And and there's a decent percentage in there that could not sign up for a transition to teaching because they were at the end of their program. So what the state makes you do is you got to go ahead and pass your test and you have to do it the traditional way. But if they would have applied for a TTT at the
beginning, we also help train principles and help them to be more aware of what to tell the person to apply for because we have people in transition to uh teaching positions that applied for an EP. And so we're explaining to them too,
it's worth spending the $35 to reapply for a TTT because a TTT gives you a traditional license for three years. So you know, so so we have identified all of them as well. So the state uh
actually issued the mandate like you guys need to reduce not not just to us across the state um we need to reduce start reducing our EPS and you reduce them through creating pathways. So we are definitely on target.
Okay. So to give us kind of an idea of where we are on the milestones and building that pipeline to get teachers all the way through their lensure in 2020 we had co as Dr. Stevens has said multiple
times in 2021 we engaged with EDG staff to get substitute teachers that are licensed or working towards their licenses. Indiana itself relaxed the EP requirements and transition to teaching programs were
more streamlined across the state. In 2022, Southoun schools introduced the Bloom Board program and started working with associate degree holders to get them through
transition to teaching programs. Um, in 2023, between 2023 and 2025, we had the grow your own program right here in our school court with EMP and and partnered with the empowerment
zone to work on getting those teachers the credits that they needed to finish that traditional license. Our partnership with Bloomboard expanded again in 2024. And last year we actually brought
Jessica Hoover in to start really monitoring all of this stuff. So we are making active progress every year for this pipeline. Reainder of the grant is specifically on special ed licensing. So that $100,000 we're going to be very
specific about special ed. >> So we have a couple of different goals throughout the years. Um, in 2024 and 2025, that school year, we were to reduce our EP holders by 20%. Um, and we needed to strengthen our
relationship between HR and curriculum and instruction. [cough] Excuse me. I'm sorry. In 2025 and 2026, we needed to reduce that an additional 20%. and we hired Jessica Hoover along to
become a part of the team monitor those various licenses and what progress has been made towards those. This year we our goal is to have all of the EPS down by a total of 40%.
And grow the number of university partners we're working with. So it's not just Indiana Weslean or IUSB. we've got other options out there and we're continuing to support our principles and let in and coaching them through what kind of licenses, what kind of permits
that people could hold based on their backgrounds. >> So, we wanted you to see that that um it's ideal to usher people into TTS. Um we do have multiple EP holders, which is a one-year license. That is, you know,
what we want to move away from eventually and um get people at the very beginning in a TTT where they have three years to finish all of their formal requirements. Uh workplace specialist is
very unique. Those are the positions. Uh it's a traditional teaching license, but they are licensed to teach CTE type classes. Well, we have to be aware of PCC is actually a CT CTE class. So,
there are multiple classes in those pathways, those graduation pathways in which an occupation specialist is a traditionally licensed teacher. So, those teachers would count as a course
completion on the state on the CCC uh report because they're licensed professionals. You also have the administrative license um which you can um um all school boards can issue uh EPS
for for principles. Uh that that is legal. The I do want to one I do want to let you know that special ed they did some some special things with the special ed department. uh the prohibited
prohibited positions if you see on the uh right hand side uh that is where the alt ed license is. So you have to be enrolled in a program and there has to be a vacancy in your district for a person to even be eligible for that
license. Once they are eligible they're eligible for two years. So they have enough time to finish as much of their requirements as possible. So the special ed positions are generally the positions that are excluded uh from the EP
process. So if you look on the left side, the eligible categories, the last one, school service, school counselors can be issued a an emergency permit, but it's only one year at a time because they want them to be working towards that
license, that certificate. Okay, so this is just an overview of what the apprentice program is is and has evolved into. Um, so most of these individuals are undergrad with uh their non-deree. Okay, so they they literally
have to be on course uh to um take at least nine to 12 credits. It's easier with Bloomboard because Bloomboard actually monitors their process and in our local environment, Jessica is doing that. So, the moment they start taking
credits, they're eligible for a substitute license. So, they they will give them a sub license. And there are certain classes that they can um operate in, but as special ed, they cannot. And so we are making sure that we um we stay
in compliance. Okay. Uh after once they enter about the third year you enter your TTP, they're given a three-year license, two to threeear license, depending on how long they have. They have two years or if they need three years, they can tell by the credits,
they will give them those licenses to make sure they finish up. The these are the non-deree. But people holding an associate degree or a degree um the people holding a degree the program is generally eight months. That is why
we're trying to help them get into the right program. So far we have the agreement with Indiana Westland. We have an agreement with two other universities through Bloomberg and Oklahoma because of the reciprocity it transfers to Indiana. Uh Dr. Dr. Yan and I have been
meeting with Marian University to discuss um a template for not only us but for the whole state. So we are working interdep departmental constantly trying to uh attack uh to attack these
goals and to create the teacher pipeline because it it's it's just as important for us to create the pipeline itself. Okay. And this is where I explain to you we we move more from decentralizing and
working directly with principles now to explain to them this is what you need to look for. This is what we need to help you with. We're getting at the we get we're getting at that at the very beginning. We're training them on how to uh what to tell the person to apply for. And if they don't know, they call Kim
McMantis. We have we were having weekly meetings with a state representative. um she went on vacation in the summer so it's a little sparse now. We are starting up those meetings again and we have the vital people on the meetings where we can talk to her specifically
about any special cases or specifically on what the legal trends are and how we should be trending best practices. So because we are modern sorry monitoring specific licensing one of the
ones that we need to talk about is school. The reason why when we need to is because have somebody that is degreed in counseling but they need to have their EP. I'm sorry the microphone moved on me. I
apologize. Um, so one of the basic requirements is to have that bachelor's degree already in counseling before they can even get their emergency permit. That emergency permit holder must work toward an improved pro an approved
program to become to get that initial practitioner license. Brand new licenses have to be fully applied by July 1st because there is a four-week period to make sure that we're getting all the documentation to back that and that license to be approved.
EPS are only good for one year. They expire every year on June 30th. So the target line deadline is uh October 15th. If you have not received your license by October 15, you go to
subpay. Last year, we were pretty successful in people like putting the boots on the ground to get their licenses in. This not only goes for EPS, but this goes for licenses across the district. The system, our human resource information system flags it and it tells
us whose licenses are expiring. So, not only do we communicate directly with EPS, uh, because we we encourage them as soon as you get your job, go ahead and apply because you're eligible. Uh, but the deadline date is October 15th to
make sure that all licenses are renewed. >> Now, there is a nuance here that we have to keep in mind. Uh, for example, if your license expires August 20th, but the school year starts August 19th, you
can teach on an expired license the full year. >> And we've we've had that happen before. >> So, >> the state allows it. So, >> that's that's kind of one of the corks. So the our last um we just want to make
the the board aware that at the middle school area we still need to look at some kind of incentive something that incentivizes people to select especially the um so if we we were speaking on
cultural competency if if we're going to put mass low over bloom where we are focused on the students needs needs, we may have to incentivize that area because, you know, middle school generally, you know, we we deal
with steep vacancies. Now, I have to say that they've been working hard and they did get some EPS. Um, but it's good news is that Jackson, Jefferson, Dickinson, they did pretty good except
for they have a couple of EPs. So, uh, we we may have to look at incentivizing that area if we're going to focus on the needs of the student population. And that's our report.
>> Well, thank you very much. >> Thank you, >> Dr. McCulla. I just want to make sure I clarify something here because as a certified counselor I want to make sure that uh the public understands and I want to make sure I understand what you were
saying here. So a person holding a school service emergency permit uh for a school counselor. is directly from the IND and the Department of Education is legally authorized uh to serve in that role, but
they are not considered a fully licensed or certified professional yet. An emergency permit is temporary. It's a one-day credential, one-year credential. It allows a candidate to work as a school counselor of record while they actively finish the remaining requirements for full professional
lensure. valid for only one school year, though it can typically be renewed. It says here, "A person cannot become a full school guidance counselor with just a short-term certificate operation operating as a
fully qualified school counselor in Indiana. Requires holding an official school service license with a school counselor content area, which strictly mandates a master's degree. master's degree must successfully complete a master's uh or higher degree
program spec specifically in school counseling. So, I'm saying that to say that we have um I want to make sure the public understands because I don't want to have our counselors think that they are being shortsighted.
When you have when you have people working as counselors, they have to have that certification. Um, it says also holding a a emergency permit, you have to show continue progress towards achieving a full
professional educator's license every year in the content area that you're teaching every year in the content area that you're teaching. So, if you're if you're teaching math and you have a emergency permit, you have to be going to school to be certified in that area.
You can't just be out there taking courses just to be tor courses taking courses to hold a EP license. I'm saying that specific because we have students that um that we have EPS in these schools and we have them over students
who are are some of our very vulnerable students. So I want to make sure this is very clear and I don't want anybody to think that we are sitting here uh hiring EPS and not following through on the progress.
Every year they have to renew that license in that content area that they're teaching. You cannot sit in a counselor's seat and say that I'm just taking a class. It has to be you have to be working toward a full counseling license and that's a master's degree.
It's not a bachelor's degree, but a master's degree. I want to make sure that's clear. That's clear. So, >> Dr. McCullen, I'd like to thank you for saying that because the individuals that we did put in place, the principles had to appeal. They had to appeal like, okay, this is a program they're in.
They're already licensed in this area. This is what they need to get an additional license. So, we're we're being careful and explaining to principles, don't let someone like who's just starting a program. This has to be someone who can prove well first of all
has proven by their work experience but who can prove that they are actually taking the right kinds of classes. And so >> when these folks are hired hired uh and recommended by principles or whoever they're recommended by and when you sit
things before the board for us to vote on we to make sure that these people when they hired that they understand that they have to go to school. >> Okay. They have to understand that they should be told that upfront. If they're not committed to going to school to get their actual license that
they're sitting in this in the job for, then we need to move on to someone else. But we do not need to make we do not need to have people sitting in these these spots not knowing that they have to continue their education. And to get a masters in counseling is not a is not
a a easy uh spot to do. So, if you're not willing to get a masters in counseling and you're sitting in that spot and you're not willing to go back to school, then that's not the job for you. Because as a counselor who's gone through those classes, I for one, and I'm sure my other counselors sitting out
there, we worked hard to get those degrees. And so, if you're sitting in that spot and you want to continue in that spot, you need to work towards that masters in that content area. as well as a teacher with a MA with a EP teaching math, teaching English, teaching
science, teaching social studies, whatever you're teaching. If you're not willing to go to school to be certified in that content area, then you're in the wrong spot. We need to continue to look for certified teachers. >> Thank you. >> Thanks very much for those comments.
Anybody? Mr. Casillo? >> Yes. Uh first of all, thank you very much for the information you uh gave to the school board and the audience tonight. um the
emergency license that people receive um and get the opportunity um to teach in our school system.
Uh I can't tell you >> I don't know >> the thrill I think it is that the opportunity you have given some people who would never been able to
uh get that chance under normal situations because they lack the credentials to do that. But it's a great opportunity to some people uh to get that opportunity and to prove
that they want to be involved in our educational system. And so I personally don't look at it
um as a major problem. Um, but you have to be very careful. I know one person who a long time ago
got that opportunity on an emergency license. They were going to teach just for a couple years. in fact is that's back then uh you had to um go going back about 40 or 50 years
back then you had uh when you got that emergency license you had two years to start because they they had their degree but they didn't have the degree in elementary which they were assigned they
had it in secondary And but they had to go back and in two years pick start picking up some elementary credits, college credits, [snorts]
and then five or six years they had to have a uh a degree in elementary. Well, they were only going to teach for a couple years anyway because they were going to go back to law school.
And uh but over that two years they were in that classroom, this person loved it. Then they met a beautiful young lady
and because her love for education, they stayed with it. Uh soon after that they didn't need to pick up the elementary credentials because they were moved into a secondary position which they were certified for.
But that person will never ever forget about the opportunity they had to do that. And personally I can tell you uh that it made every made their whole
life. And how do I know that? Because that person was me. So emergency license I understand and I have lived with it
and uh God bless the people who want to get into education that might not have the perfect credential background for it right now but they have a desire to help kids
and that is what we want. uh dedicated professionals uh who come in with a burning desire to make sure students receive the education that they need. And thank
goodness we have many teachers like that. And some of these emergency licensed people can look at the great teachers that surround them in their buildings
and assist and help them. And I know that goes on. So again, thank you for your information and uh I just wanted to be make sure the relevancy of emergency license is all not that bad. It could be
better. But sometimes you get some excellent results because of it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Costello. Mr. Ellison. >> Yes. I also want to um [clears throat] heard what Mr. Costello said in that uh I thought you know the presentation was
excellent was very good information and it is important while I you know particularly just looking at the teacher numbers while I you know I do see that we've had you know as you said it's down to like 14 just under 15% now that are going to be EPS for this coming school
year having a higher percentage of certified teachers in our classroom is beneficial you know we've known data and research shows that our students do better it helps with attendance graduation ation, how they do on I read and I learn and all of those kind of things. But as Mr. Costello said, uh it's still, you know, having intentional
emergency permits to transition to teaching. Those are are certified teachers of the future and many of those people are also excellent teachers right now and in that regard. So making sure as it sounds like you know there's a lot of thought in terms of the process and sort of you know what all of you are
doing now in terms of working with those people making sure they're taking the right classes making sure they're aware of all the different options they have um you know if you want to be secondary what to take versus uh elementary and so that you know you've got you know as as
we've dropped down now from you know 220 to some odd 140 EPs for this year and hopefully that number may come uh you know continue to come down in future years. But the idea is that you know whether it's 140 or whatever the number is, those are people that actually want to be long-term educators. They're not
just signing up and they're just going to do it without ever taking the classes or trying to pass the test. And and we're going to do more things to make sure they're on the track in terms of the classroom, whatever we need to do in terms of developing resources or other kind of things to help people study uh
for the practice exam to, you know, it's it's a test that's difficult. that doesn't have the, you know, not like something that has a 90% passage rate. Uh, but to help people, you know, get over that so they do get their full certification and that type of thing so that they then do become our next
generation of certified teachers. That that makes sense. And it and I think the numbers are borne out by was presented in that program that we've made a lot of good progress in that area in the past year and it seems like we've got a really good plan to continue to grow and excel in that area going forward. So, I
just again want to commend um you all and under the direction of Superintendent Eid for what you've been doing in that area in the past year and what we're going to continue to do uh going forward, it sounds like. So, I do want to give recognition to the curriculum and instruction and federal
programs because they have identified federal funds um through title two to assist people with their test and with passing like the pedagogy and their content test which is is great because
people also get stuck in the financial um dilemma. So, that that's great coordination. I also want to uh to acknowledge the NEA who two years ago started talking about strategy on what
we needed to do and so we worked together through our MM. So I do want to recognize uh Linda Lucy on that. Also want to say thank you to Mi Misty. This is her first presentation and she was very nervous but she did a fine job. She is our employee relations person. sure
she is handling some of the hardest things uh in the district, but I want to thank her and congratulate on her her efforts. >> Yeah, I just want to say and congratulate you as well on your efforts
and the kinds of changes you're making while also acknowledging that EPS by title are not necessarily one kind of teacher or another. Um I think we have a lot of really gifted teachers who are
aspiring and for one reason or another don't necessarily finish but who are contributing a great deal to to our students. I think there are any number of challenges that we're facing as a district, especially in content areas. Uh and um we need to do better, I
suppose. But I wonder if you could provide uh everyone on the board and as well as those listening with some context. Uh we often compare ourselves to other similar districts. Are other similar districts with the same
populations, the same demographics? >> They they have they have the same problems. Some of they're they're people are not, you know, it's it's not a it's not a focus right now for certain districts which when we talked to Marian University, uh we realized in the
conversation that whatever we do here at South Ben is literally uh a great example or pilot for uh for other for other districts. So, uh, what we're doing is much better and different
because we're staying focused on the data and compliance. And so, you know, I I just really believe that we're going to continue trending in the right direction because of the connections, the collaboration. >> That's great. It's great to hear that
we're a model of something like this for other districts. And I think part of the grant money going toward the Jessica Hoover has made a big difference. someone who's been in the classroom and can guide aspiring teachers. So again, I
thank you for all the initiatives that you're taking. >> Now, I don't know if I was dreaming this, but I remember reading something about a district that had lost its teachers to retirement and resignation.
And this year, they're starting everybody on an EP except for two certified I'm I'm going to go back do the research and I'll send you the the name of the dis district.
>> Yeah. Do any other questions? Uh >> I have a question per say as a comment. U this teacher shortages across this whole state and I the reason why one of the reasons why uh the teachers aren't going into the profession is because
number one low pay number two I believe is the practice exam. that teachers are afraid of and and uh I think that uh we we were stuck with that neither here nor there. We don't have anything to do. We have no power over that. But the thing
is is that um in my mind um uh I think the state needs to state officials need to trust their universities and their colleges to train and teach their teachers and uh to have them go through
all of that training and then come out and take a practice exam that you can't pass. To me, it says it says something it says something different to me. Uh what are we looking at? Why are we It's almost like you're not trusting the
people that you put in place to teach your teach to train your teachers. So, as as far as I'm concerned, it's just my own personal opinion. They can do away with that practice. >> Well, thank you for your presentation. >> I had to get that in. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you, Dr. McCulla. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all. Appreciate it. So, we will now move on to the uh consent agenda. It is recommended that the board of school trustees approve the consent agenda which includes approval of the
July 27 minutes under item 8.01 accepting any attached financial reports and statements under item 8.02 approving any attached >> sorry bills for payroll payments under item 8.03 3. Approving personnel
decisions listed on any attached reports under item 8.04. Adopting any attached resolutions under item 8.05 which are required to be adopted annually. Accepting any gifts to the corporation and approving any fundraisers describing any reports under item 8.06 and
approving or ratifying any contracts for 50,000 or less under item 8.07 of which there are none. Do we have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda? >> Motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Thank you, Mr. Ellison.
>> Do I have a second, Mr. SKI? >> Second. >> Thank you, Mr. Leva. Does anyone have any questions, comments, or concerns about the consent agenda? If not, can you call the role, please? Miss Hernandez.
>> Mr. Mr. Ellison >> I >> Mr. Cosello >> I >> Dr. McCulla >> I >> Mr. Snediki >> I >> Miss Lee >> I >> Mr. Lea >> I >> Dr. Green >> I motion carries unanimously by a vote
of seven to zero. Uh as I mentioned our only action it time this evening is a first reading of policies. Uh so I'll now turn over the uh remainder of the meeting to legal counsel Mr. Matt Lawson uh who has distributed all the policies
that we will be going over and uh that's thank you. I appreciate your all the advanced work you've been doing to get us ready for this meeting. Before we begin, I want to make the board aware of one administrative matter. So, Neiola is currently
transitioning to a new policy publishing platform, which is separate from its existing website. As a result of that transition, the printed policy drafts before you do not reflect every revision that has been completed within Neola's system. I'm working directly with Neiola
to resolve that issue and expect to have fully updated redline versions for circulation to the board and public posting within the next few days. Um, accordingly, for purpose of tonight's discussion, the only policy documents that should be treated as final draft versions are the uh the new
transportation policy and revised student uh code of conduct. that's you also have hard copies of. Uh those documents do accurately reflect the proposed uh language and changes. And then in addition, there is one additional policy uh that was added to
the summary chart since it was printed. Um and that is policy 3139. Uh so I will be including that. Um it's not on the physical copy, but it will be included on the electronic version that's circulated and what what is al ultimately posted for public
consumption. For all other policies, the policy summary chart accurately reflects the proposed revisions and should be used as the basis for tonight's first reading discussion. So tonight, uh to help keep the presentation organized, I will walk through the proposed revisions in the
same numerical order as they appear on the policy summary chart. Uh that chart will be circulated to the board again and posted electronically um as part of the public record. In addition to providing a concise summary of each policy revision, it identifies the type of update, uh the source of the proposed
change, and includes direct links to relevant state and federal laws, IDE guidance, recent legislative updates, and any other supporting reference materials that I relied upon uh during the comprehensive policy review. The goal is to provide both the board and
the public with a single reference document explaining not only what is being revised but also the legal and operational basis for each recommendation. With that, tonight I will provide the board with a first reading overview of 38 total proposed policy and procedural
updates. Uh these revisions are intended to align the corporation's policies with the uh the reference material cited and linked in the policy summary chart that I just outlined. Many of the proposed revisions are technical uh and administrative in nature, including updates to legal
citations, terminology, definitions, procedures, and cross references. There are other revisions that are more substantive and address topics such as student person, student personal communication devices, artificial intelligence, student discipline, technology use, cyber security,
purchasing, contract approval, school safety, employee discipline, mandatory reporting, and other operational matters. This policy set also includes a new transportation policy which addresses when the corporation's bus drivers may transport their own children as well as a revised student code of
conduct that incorporates current legal requirements, clarifies expectations, promotes consistency, and reflects the current corporation practices. The purposes of the purpose of tonight's presentation is to introduce these proposed revisions, provide the board
with a highle overview of the changes, and then answer any preliminary questions. identify any additional feedback before a second reading is ultimately set. Following tonight's discussion, the updated redline policies, as I mentioned, uh coordinating with Miola to
get that uh the I guess the uh miscommunication between their their new systems corrected or to be able to print um accurately. Um as soon as those are available, we we'll get those posted and circulated to the board.
Uh with that I'll go ahead and get started uh going through each policy one by one. So uh first one the policy 2210 curriculum development. This updates our curriculum development process to align with Indiana's current mathematics
framework intervention requirements and good citizenship and instruction. Policy 221 mandatory curriculum. Uh, this removes outdated grade 8 safety course requirement and updates the list of instructional subjects required under
Indiana law. Policy 2261.03, school choice. This updates our school choice policy to reflect current enrollment options, attendance boundaries, capacity considerations, and non-discrimination requirements.
Policy 2416, student privacy and parental access to information. This clarifies recruiter access while continuing to protect student privacy and parents right to information. >> Can I could I ask you since there's been
[snorts] some discussion beforehand of school choice and where school tr choice lies who gets to make decisions. So I notice in the red lining. So in the
documents that the board received, we received a chart with each policy. We also received all the red lines that that came from the state. >> Correct. So the red lines that you have are what I had mentioned was don't
appear to be accurate. And so when um I all of the updates were completed in Neil system they're during during the month of July beginning of August they're rolling out their new publishing software which is actually a different website and everything and it seems to me like the left is left hand's not
communicating with the right hand and so like even you know sitting here just now um I pulled up one of the policies that um I had updated went to print it and it it still wasn't reflecting the the changes that was showing literally on my screen. So, um
I'm getting working on getting that resolved. >> Okay. One one thing, you know, I would highlight for for the board is that there's been some discussion about school choice and who gets to make the decision. Uh the bottom uh reading part
of it reads, "Aceptance of a transfer does not create entitlement to transportation except when transportation is required by law." by law an applicable program board approved administrative guidelines. The superintendent shall publish the available options, procedures,
deadlines, priorities, and any appeal process. So, it seemed to me that the last part of that uh of the appeal process that that might be more open-ended than we perhaps have currently discussed. So, I just want to
identify that as something we come back to next time if that's all right. Absolutely. That and that would be my um interpretation or understanding of the update as well. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> I'll let you proceed. >> All right.
>> Uh 2421 career and technical education program. Uh this updates workbased learning procedures and partnership requirements to reflect current insurance and liability standards. uh 2430 corporation sponsored clubs and activities. This expands emergency
preparedness requirements. So additional school sponsored activities are covered by AED and emergency response procedures. 2431 intercolastic athlet athletics. Uh this requires coaches to verify that an operational AED is available at athletic
events in accordance with each venue's emergency plan. I think it's worth noting that um there are a couple um athletic related updates included in this round of policy updates. Um and the good thing is is that in talking with our director of athletics, Milt Lee, um
he confirmed that we're actually we're already doing what is being required by the update. So, um we seem to be ahead of the curve or at least compliant with what uh these updates are. So, I was happy to hear that. 2623 student assessment. Uh this updates
liter literacy assessment and intervention requirements to reflect current state standards and guidance. 3120 employment of professional staff. This recognizes newly authorized educator lensure pathways and updates
our hiring requirements. 3131 reductions in force. Uh this removes outdated language while maintaining performance as the primary factor when reductions become necessary. 3139 is the the policy I mentioned earlier that uh is on the electronic
version that I'll circulate that's not on the summary. It's only policy that's not on there. Um, and we'll spend a few minutes here talking about that one because it's probably the most robust um, substantive changes that were made to that one. And so 3139
is professional and administrative staff discipline. And so this is this policy has been re uh revised to provide clearer standards for professional and administrative staff uh discipline and more in a more comprehensive list of conduct that may support suspension
without pay, contract cancellation, non-renewal or termination. Uh the expanded examples now include, among other things, the failure to make a legally or professionally required report, refusal to cooperate in an authorized corporation investigation.
misuse or unauthorized disclosure of confidential information, neglect of duty, misuse of corporation resources, and willful or repeated violations of board policy. And the revisions also specifically identify uh willful or repeated
violations of board policy 3112, which is >> excuse me, you were talking about 3139. I don't see 3139, >> right? That's that's the the one policy that's not on the summary that that was added. So, but it'll be circulated um
with the with the rest of the updates. So, but the uh the revisions to 3139 also specifically identified the willful or repeated violations of board policy 3112, which is the board staff communications policy, including
intentionally bypassing or refusing to follow established supervisory or administrative reporting channels. I am asking the board uh to recommmit to the consistent enforcement of that chain of command policy because I repeatedly hear from administrators that employees
bypassing established channels uh remains a significant operational problem. The chain of command protects due process by ensuring concerns are first presented to the administrator who has the information, responsibility, and opportunity to investigate and respond. >> Excuse me. Which policy are you reading?
Because I it sounds like we've already done that policy before. Were you asking for another revision? >> So, so I just wanted to make the board aware that that's included. There's quite a few things that were added to this list um of of >> which policy which policy number is that? >> 3139.
>> I'm in 3139. And what are you saying now in this policy? >> So, this one has been updated to be uh more robust and inclusive of the conduct that uh would be considered a terminable offense. And so one of the um items on that list is the repeated or willful
violation of the board's established chain of command policy. >> Okay. So we have a policy that addresses the chain of command. So you want to put it in this particular policy as well. >> So it exactly the wolf just repeated violations of that policy just making it
clear that that could result in terms >> because I thought we made that clear last year. the chain of command. If if an employee is having an issue, >> they have to go through their immediate supervisor. >> They have it if they can't get anything done with that immediate supervisor and they go to the superintendent and then
if they cannot get satisfaction from that particular person, they can't request to speak to the board. So, what are we trying to do with that? >> We're trying to do exactly what you just said, but consistently across all of the board members. um because I do believe
that there is a sector of um our employee population who feels as though they can contact the board directly. There are you know different um ways of bypassing I guess the chain of command policy. And so I met part of including that in there is one I want to
reemphasize like the chain of command policy is not intended to be a burden for employees. It's actually it's actually intended to protect their due process rights. So, you know, if you go directly to the board, who is the final arbiter of your issues, you you
essentially lose your due process rights. And so, requiring the chain of command provides you with those opportunities to um you know, have your issues sufficiently heard and addressed. And so, >> I understand that part. I understand what you're saying wholeheartedly. But what I'm saying to you is that we
discussed this last year in that policy. So if the folks have gone through the chain of command and they have gone through the superintendent is a chain at the top of the chain of command didn't get any satisfaction. The next step is the school board president to ask for an
audience with the board. The school president's job is not to decide I'm not going to give that person that option. is to let the board know this person wants to speak with you with this with the board and give that person that
option. And so we have to make sure that we're communicating this this correctly because we have we have employees have gone through the chain of command and still have not received the satisfaction. And some of them have been denied to speak to the board and that
should not happen because we're here to hear what they have to say. We're not here to to give them an answer to their face or speak to them privately and give them an answer. But we do as a collective board need to hear what the person says if they are going through
the proper proc uh processes. >> So I don't want I don't I'm just want to make sure that it's clear why we keep going through this same policy when we've already went through that same policy. >> Dr. McCulla, we continue to go through the policy because there's a perception that there are board members that that
do not feel as though employees have to follow it. That's just being realistic about it. And so what I'm asking for is for the board to recommmit to that policy. >> Um, you know, we're not, you know, we're not asking for anything different. You know, what you just said is is exactly
right. Um, but I I I will uh push back on. So I've been here since October. I'm not aware of of one situation where somebody has gone through the proper chain of command policy and has been denied going to the board. you. So I I would I I would be because
>> and you've been here since October, but I've been here for six almost seven years. And so I >> I'm just saying in my in my time in my since in my time being here, >> I just don't want us to put a policy in place where we further harm our employees by not listening to what they
have to say. So I I don't want anything put in there. Uh well, I don't personally want to see our employees harmed. If our employees are not getting satisfaction from the chain of command, they have a right to speak to this board. And I need I need to make sure that they understand that and we
understand that. >> I'm going to tell you right now, no employee, no parent, no teacher needs anybody's permission to talk to me. Anybody is allowed to talk to me and no one's going to stop them.
So if you try to put something in with this chain of command, you know where you could stick that back in your file someplace. >> Well, so ju just to be clear, so uh we did last year address 3112 um and that's not up here for change
tonight. >> We're supposed to be working together. >> Yeah. Yeah. And in 3112, in 3112 last year, this board said all employees may address the board at schoolboard meetings and may otherwise talk to board members without fear of retaliation.
That that is the current language you guys did uh modify that last year. Uh I think what Matt's talking about because the other that policy does go on to encourage people to follow the chain of command and uh and what I think Matt's
getting at is when they don't follow the chain of command and try to come forward on certain issues that is a repeated violation. But to be clear, the current policy language for 3112 uh does allow employees and others to
talk to the board without fear of retaliation. >> And I I think I I made myself clear last year when we brought this up that if a person or an employee comes to me and wants to talk to me, I pass that information along to everyone else.
So it's not like I'm selling their whatever disagreement they have. I have enough intelligence to know if somebody brings me a problem, I'm going to bring it to this board so that we can set a meeting up with that board. But I'm simply saying to you is that we cannot further harm our employees because we
value them by not wanting to listen to what they have to say. And if this is something that we're going to that you're talking about trying to put in place, it needs to make sure every employee follows this this pro this process and not just some. And Mr. I
guess Mr. Uh, Snite is absolutely right. We had this policy discussion last year and if an employee wants to speak to me, I know how to pass that information on. >> I think >> Dr. Dr. M, what I do want to say is this
is one of multiple things on the list of conduct examples. And you know, we talk about harm to employees. What about harm to the supervisors who's not getting the respect to solve issues at the at the admin at the district level? you know, and so all too often it's not just one
level that's getting bypassed. It's two, three, four superintendent. It's the list is on and on. And so, you know, what I would request is that the board either uniformly help the administration enforce the chain of command policy or formally revise or remove it because the
selective enforcement creates significant legal and operational risk because employees may argue that the policies apply differently uh depending upon the individual involved, the administrator affected, the board member contacted. How does an employee know if
if board members are saying you don't have to follow the chain of command policy that's set in that the board is established? Okay. Well, how does the employee know? What policies did we have to follow and which ones do we not? You know what I mean? And so it creates a lot of questions and so the
administration needs the board's help with this. >> Again, the uh policies are posted online. Anybody can either the public and anyone else can read those policies. And again, if the persons are going through their chain of command, which is
their supervisor, and they're not getting satisfaction with that supervisor, they have a right to go through the next step. >> That's the next person in charge. So, if they're telling their supervisor in the meeting they're having with them, I'm not satisfied with the answers that
you're giving me. They have a right to move on to the next person in charge. And that next person in charge may be the superintendent. It may be another person over that person. But they have a right to they have a right to get satisfaction. They have a right to do that.
>> I'm not asking for any changes to the policy. No changes to the policy. The policy is perfectly written as it is. All I'm asking for on behalf of multiple of our directors is that the board help us help us to enforce it because it's not it's not happening. They're asking
he's asking for a reaffirmation of what we agreed on last year. He's not adding anything. He's not taking anything away. >> Just an reaffirmation. >> And again, the the employee is harmed when they go directly to the board because they that eliminates their due
process rights because the board is supposed to be the final arbiter of issues. And so if you if you don't go through the chain of command, it actually harms the employee. It harms the employee, it harms the supervisor. And so it just creates significant issues down the line um when issues could ultimately be resolved much
earlier on. >> Well, as as as a board member, when someone comes to me and I want you to know upfront, the first thing I ask that person, have you gone through the chain of command? >> That's you need to do that. That's all I >> I just want you to understand that that
we're not going to I'm not going to sit here and uh uh I do ask those questions and I do encourage them to go to the chain of command, but I'm not going to sit here as a board member and uh knowing that someone is being being uh harmed or there's a disagreement and
they've gone through the chain of command and they're denied they're being denied uh access to this board. >> I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with you more, but that's not currently happening. Okay. I just want to make sure. I just want to make sure. >> No, I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more on that, but the reality is is that
that's not currently happening. >> You know, I and I don't someone comes up to me, I don't suggest going through chain of command. I normally my chain of command, the highest person on that chain of command is the Lord. That's who I go. But I go before I do anything, I
don't go. >> He said it's not. >> I go to the superintendent. That's who he reports to us. I report to him basically and 99% of the time he takes care of it. He he got personality. He's
instead of going through five, six people, I go to him. He takes care of it and uh and it's been working out and I'm not going to change it. I might help you on that policy book when you >> some time
>> if we're not going to. So there's a difference. Employees are gonna employees are going to go to the board, right? Like it's going to happen. You have relationships with with employees all over. And so there's a difference between, you know, listening, understanding, and saying, "I'll pass it on to the I'll talk to the
administration about that." Or the alternative version that I would request is twofold. Basically, I will follow up with the administration, but you need to contact your supervisor directly. I'm just simply saying do not deny an
employee access to this board if they have followed the chain of command. >> Never. Never. Never. If they follow the chain of command, if they follow the chain of command, which ends with a meeting with superintendent Eid, the policy says that Superintendent Eid would then coordinate >> and that needs to go not for select few
for everyone. And and you're right, you're new. I've been here for almost seven years and I know that though that that has not happened. And so I'm just simply saying again publicly, do not deny people access to this board. >> Uniform enforcement of our policies,
regardless of which one it is, is always going to be the best route forward. It's always going to be the best way to mitigate risk and the best way to have operational efficiency. And so if the board wants to support the administration, just requiring the board's following the board's policy
that's already set. that that's all that the administration the directors are asking and struggling with. And so we're not asking for anything different. We're not trying to to, you know, withhold people's ability to talk to the board. We just want our our supervisors to have
an opportunity to address issues. So often the immediate supervisor is not even included and they have no idea that there's even an issue for them to resolve when had they known they probably could have just fixed it. So that that's all that's all I'm asking
for just the uniform enforcement of our policies. And if we're not going to do that, then we the board should revise or remove it. I mean that that's that's all I'm asking. >> Okay, we should move on. >> Mr. I have comments. >> Maybe I'll move on. Would you like to ask a question?
>> Uh yeah, I I I would kind of hurt that this probably requires a more robust discussion. This is just the first reading. perhaps at the retreat or an executive session we can go into more detail to determine what if anything it should survive or change in the second reading of that kind of thing. It probably would be easier to have a print
out of what we did last year. We did talk about this last year, but now that we have a year of data and if your experience and I get that from administration that it's not really being followed the way that it's written, then either reasserting it or saying we need to tweak it just makes
sense or at least we should discuss that now that we have a year of data to see. And I, you know, I kind of ard and if people want to come to a board member about anything, they they can. But the the chain of command is important and I do think sometimes like examples of things we've talked about at times in
executive session that to me is like that probably could have been resolved at the building level or by the people in the chain of command had it gone through the chain of command. Um and so we should at least rethink or talk about it perhaps in a little more now that
we've seen how it's working. Is it working? Does it need twinks? And maybe we don't change anything at all. But, um, I I do think it's worth having that discussion. So, I I do appreciate you bringing that up because I I I would agree with the assessment that it's not the way that it's been in practice over
the past year is not perfectly in alignment with what's written. >> And the reality is is just adding that site to that specific policy doesn't add literally anything in terms of the administration's ability to do anything. If a employ an employee is is regularly
violating a board policy, doesn't matter what policy it is, action should be able to be taken. But unfortunately, we're not able to consistently and uniformly enforce that particular policy because we don't feel from the administration standpoint that the board is supportive
of that and will uniformly enforce it with us. So >> you know one one uh fine detail here is the perception that someone is not getting a hearing with the board. I think the board chair has had the
discretion to make the decision whether someone should be able to talk to the board and part of that decision making is is that person currently on in is it currently in litigation and I think that compromises the board's
position by having someone who is in litigation come to the board because then we all become witnesses. Well, well, we don't uniformly enforce that policy or any other one. They may not be in litigation currently, but we're asking for them to be in litigation or
for somebody else to be in litigation. It's only a matter of time before someone gets terminated for the violation of a policy that they say, well, the board doesn't uniformly enforce policies. They only enforce this the alcohol policy. They only enforce the alcohol policy because I'm, you
know, this protected class or that protected class. But yet there are other policies that are not enforced. So it's like if we're going to have the policy, we need to enforce it. That's all I'm asking. If we have the policy, let's enforce it. Right. >> Okay. So let me ask this quick question since uh uh President Green brought this
up. Dr. Green brought this up. So if a person is in litigation and uh uh if what they want to come and speak to the board about has nothing to do with whatever they're in litigation about, >> they should be able to do that. >> Sure. and that should not be not denied.
So, I'm simply saying you don't deny a person to come and speak to a board if they've gone through the chain of command and did not get results because they have they're in litigation. If they want to speak to us about something that has nothing to do with the litigation, they should be able to do so. >> I don't I don't disagree with that. As
long as they've gone through their supervisor >> problems with that. >> Yeah. And met with superintendent Eid, which is required under the policy. I mean, that's >> and and and the board president does not make that determination by himself. He brings that information to the board itself as a whole. He doesn't speak for
the entire board. He is just the president of the board. He brings that information. So and so wants to speak to the board and I we need to make an appointment to say that he does not make that determination on his on his own. >> I want to be very clear. >> I'm just saying yeah, you can't answer that question. >> I want to be very clear. We are not
trying to to stop people from talking to the board to get a resolution. We're trying to expand We're trying to expand the the possibilities for an employee to get the resolution that they need. And so the only way to do that is to follow the chain of command. >> I get it. I understand that part. I'm just simply saying I don't want the uh
people who have followed the chain of command to feel like they cannot speak to this board. >> Well, I can I can tell you, Dr. McCulla, I'm not aware of that happening. And if I was, I would not I mean, that would not be something I'm supportive of. So, if they follow the chain of command, then they're entitled to it. I mean the
the policy works both ways. You know, if you've gone through if you've taken the steps necessary to get there, then you deserve to get there, right? So, >> exactly. So, we don't need to be adding some extra stuff into the policy that's not in the policy. >> Well, the problem is is the verbal comments that board members are making,
not just today, but just historically. It makes employees feel as though I don't have to talk to my supervisor about this. I don't have to talk to my supervisor supervisor. I don't have to go to HR with this issue. I don't have to go to legal with this issue. I'll go straight to the board and that's the
problem. And then and then later the supervisor ends up hearing about it secondhand and that's not fair to the supervisor when in all reality they could have resolved the issue if they just known about it. >> Well, I get I get what you're saying and I understand that, but I don't want to take up a lot of time with this, but I'm telling you, I've been on this board
long enough to know that some of those things have happened. They've gone to their supervisors and the supervisors have denied them to go to the next step up and then the next step up and have denied them even go to the president to ask for a request to speak to the board.
>> Well, guess what? The those those individuals who are denying people that have followed the the pol the policy, they are violating the policy. So, they should be disciplined. you know, I you know, I've been on a board a long
time, too. And uh this is kind of different one than I ever had as a policy meeting. Uh for one thing, it got switched from Wednesday to Monday. And the normal procedure is to have I don't
think it was advertised enough to have it today. That's why you don't see a big crowd here. There's there's a lot of things that we we ask throughout the year to put in this policy and these this is where you
bring it to us and show us uh how I want it in your writing not mine and uh just like everybody uh all the board is aware and you are superintendent is about uh
resolution that uh two two of them were here Miss uh uh Alisa Jones and uh Tina uh uh there in Black L black
life matters is involved in that. Uh and I think reading uh Mr. Green's emails and and uh some of the others there's there's some uh
sense to some of it. I'm not going to agree with everything, but it needs to be discussed. I think it needs to be uh they need to uh we need as a board to discuss some of the issues uh along with then come up to the public
and discuss things. Uh as far as there's there's talk been talk for a long time now for years about the consent decree that uh a judge several years ago said you know why do we even have that
because but I don't I don't want to and he's probably right in the respect because 1980 till now things have changed but there's still a lot of good things in there that we need to quote in this
policy. You know, we might not uh by putting in a policy is going to save millions of dollars with us with lawyers that we have to have a lawyer on staff just to uh handle a consent agree which we don't
have a whole lot of cases on that. But there are some issues and Mrs. McCulla brought up a couple couple issues in the last couple meetings as far as um where kids go to school and the boundaries being changed and we had some discussion
with that in our executive session today. So I I'm still confused on on what's going on there and how we could solve it. And that's why the strategic plan their their uh
their thing that the resolution that they put out uh I'm sure they're going to be part of this strategia plan and give us some ideas along with other people give ideas on and it's not you
know it's just not the African-American people it's everybody and if they want call me a racist for doing that. Let them call me a racist. I'm I I'm doing this for all the kids
and and uh it's more more of a a poor issue or not knowing someone as far as where you're going to school and other stuff. Everybody, every family has their own problems and uh they have to work
and so but uh there has to be some solutions out there. It's been going on and on and on and the strategic plan I think I think uh the superintendent's been working on some of the issues as far as the busing and and stuff like
that. So uh uh so plan a meeting where I want to bring out a resolution this resolution to the public somehow that that they wrote up to and and present it
to the board tomorrow. They're having a meeting up up in the uh St. Joe I'll be there >> library. Uh I'm not sure. I'm going to try to attend but I'm not sure. But I think Mr. the superintendent will be there and a few other board members. But
uh I read their whole thing and uh the one thing I don't disagree that I do disagree with them is there's a statement in there and they can get mad at me too about getting rid of our
uh what do they call the the security the >> SRO's SRO's not while I'm sitting on the board. We're not gonna get rid of the SRO's. >> So, just >> bring it. >> My goal is the safety of the kids and we're not going to get rid of the SRO's.
>> Mr. Snake, can we return to the first reading of these policies? >> I I just have just a three more points on this particular policy that I want to make. >> Okay. >> This is one of the most important updates that we have in this set out of
the 37. That's one. Two, it is my uh my experience and knowledge that the inconsistent application and enforcement of this particular policy is easily one of the top five legal risks and costs that we are facing as a corporation.
And the third point is we're asking for the board's help. We need the board's help. And so, yeah, I mean like that that's what it is. It's important. Um I I very specifically included that in the list of several other offenses because it's that important. So uh that being
said, I can move on. >> Okay, let's let's continue. >> Okay, so moving on. Uh policy 3142, which is back on your spreadsheet, uh cancellation of a teaching contract. Uh it just updates teacher contract cancellation procedures just to reflect
current Indiana law. And again, as I mentioned in the beginning, a lot of updates are just updated uh to align with uh recent legislation or other um guidance that has been uh implemented over the last couple years. Um policy
4150, disciplinary actions. This replaces uh the classified employee discipline policy with a more modern and consistent disciplinary framework. 5120, assignment of students to schools and programs. Uh this clarifies that student
assignment transfer attendance zone and program placement procedures. Uh it just makes that um that entire process more clear. >> It makes it clear, but I again I can't put a fine enough point on this one because this is also about where the
discretion lies. >> Yeah. And once we get that bug worked out to where I can actually print the policy that is showing on my my computer screen, right, um it'll provide more context to what what we're talking about. So, um, you know, unfortunately for reasons beyond my control, um, you
know, you're that's not reflected in what you have now. Uh, probably the second biggest most important thing on the list today is the 5136 personal communication devices. Uh, this replaces the existing cell phone policy with a the all day expectation that
devices remain powered off and in a locker subject to the limitations required by law. Um it will basically track with the uh superintendent directive that is that is already out there. 5410 promotion placement retention. Uh this
provides um automatic advanced mathematics placement for qualifying students while preserving parent notification and opt out rights. Just again updating uh the policy to be consistent with current law. 5460 graduation requirements streamlines
graduation planning and updates procedures for students pursuing high school equivalency. 5540 uh the schools and law enforcement agencies. This just clarifies uh when law enforcement may access schools, students, staff, and records. [snorts]
5600 student discipline. Uh, this removes obsolete statutory references and technical language while leaving the corporation's disciplinary authority unchanged. 6145 short-term indeess
updates the borrowing procedures related to student instructional technology and aligns them with current state law. Uh, 6320 purchasing. Uh this strengthens purchasing procedures by requiring legal review of non-standard vendor contract terms and um you know that's something
that we've been very focused on with the legal department and the corporation as a whole just making sure that our contracts are being reviewed um that we have a standard set of terms and conditions that we're requiring our vendors to sign. And so, you know, we we
are we are uh taking the position that to contract with the South Bend Community School Corporation is a privilege. And so, in order to do that, the vendor has to agree to terms that that we require. Um that that has not always been the approach before uh
before my time. So, that's definitely a shift in the um mentality I guess with with regard to contracts. 6330 approval of contracts. uh that just formalizes the legal review of school contracts and requires the use of Indiana compliant
contract terms and the corporation standard terms and conditions that I just referenced. Uh 75403 student technology acceptable use and safety. This updates student technology expectations by adding enhanced internet
filtering options, AI guidance, and additional online safety protections. 75404 staff technology acceptable use and safety. This establishes expectations for staff use of AI while enforcing
privacy, security, and human oversight. 75409 artificial intelligence. This replaces uh the existing AI policy with a comprehensive framework governing the responsible use of artificial intelligence throughout the corporation. As I think the board knows, there was a
there is an AI committee um that Garrett Albbright has done a a great job of spearheading that has really reviewed um all aspects of AI. So, um the u work done as part of that committee and also
um leaning on um Derek's review and kind of feedback on the policy as well to make sure that we're we're all in line with what is the best. >> This is a new policy, >> huh? >> This is a new policy. >> I409 is not in here. So, that's a new policy.
>> Yeah, I think it is. It says a replacement. is actually a a new >> 7544 is also new. >> So, uh, exactly. So, this update social media expectations um to address AI assisted content, strengthen protections
for students and then also kind of reinforces the guidelines um surrounding social media as a whole. 8120 volunteers. Uh this updates volunteer eligibility requirements and consolidates required training uh
required coach training provisions. 8300 uh continuity of organizational operations plan. Uh this just this strengthens the corporation's emergency continuity planning including cyber security and ransomware uh preparedness.
>> That's a new policy too. that one. I think that one may be exist. >> I'm not seeing it on here at all. 8300 and 835. I'm not seeing it. So, it would must be uh uh if it I don't know where it would
be, but it's not on it's not on here. >> So, these are new policies that that um >> Dr. McCull I'll follow up on those. my understanding that the 8300 was was a an existing policy. >> Um, but I I'll I'll follow up on that
one in 8305. >> Thank you. Because I'm looking at the policies and I'm not seeing that at all. >> Are you looking at the policy? Where are you looking at the policies in the >> No, I hear on the computer. >> She's she's looking on on >> I'm looking at our computer. >> She's looking at at the board doc's
website, I believe, at the policies that are posted as active. >> Okay. And so it was my understanding that that >> those are my go-to policies the the board doc. So if I'm not seeing this policy up there. >> Yeah. And so you know we have 37
policies on this list today. Last time I think we had like 20some. We're we're actively working on getting everything updated, everything organized. Um, so that way, you know, you can have confidence when you go to to the policy section on board docs that not only do
does it include all the policies that we need to protect the corporation and to run it efficiently, but also um that they are updated. You know, there were several several updates that were not completed, policies that needed to be uh revised, updates that had been updated.
So, we're um with this round, I think we might be able to be fully caught up on the next round of policy updates. So, it's it's an ongoing process, but we will be caught up on that shortly. >> Yeah. Because when when they're when they're done, uh these policies are actually approved and they're done. They
need to be uploaded in board docs because >> they're behind. >> So, so there is a process. And so as part of the last round of policy revisions, um we went through the process with Neil, worked closely with them and got the all of the policies
that the board had approved like I don't know the summer before I started um got those you know officially uploaded into board docs and followed that process for them to be published and the same thing with the policies that were approved as part of or adopted as part of uh the
policy review that I went through. So um it is an ongoing effort um and it is one that like today it has been an issue the um the system that they are rolling out the publishing system that they're rolling out but you know 3 weeks from now when when it's fully operational and
everything is changed it's going to be significantly better and significantly easier to have our policies like you know we'll be able to print bulk and so you know we could have a PDF version of the entire policy manual so that we could you know more easily search and
update and things like that. So um while it is a um a little bit of a of a roadblock today um but what they are doing and the cause of that issue today will actually benefit um the and facilitate the uh efficiency of getting
policies updated in the future. And so, uh, yeah, Pete, uh, board counsel just said, um, he does believe that the 8300 and 8305 are are new policies. >> I think they're new. >> They may not be new policies. They might be somewhere, but they're not on on
board docks. >> So, I will um I will make that clear when and I think part of it too is when Yola when Yola sends the update, um, there's a policy like the transportation policy, you'll see it doesn't have a policy number. That's because we put that together. It's something that we did. But these policies were included as
part of the Neil's update. So, they got transferred over and that's probably why um because they were already assigned a number. I was thinking that maybe they were a replacement. But I will um before I send the electronic copy of the summary and then the uh um the policies themselves over the next couple of days,
I will make sure that um I go through and make that clear which ones are new, which ones are not. >> Yeah. Because like I said, I I go to uh I I I rely on my the policies in in uh board docs quite often. Even though I have a big folder, it's easier for me sometimes to go into the computer and pull them up
>> and uh they need to be updated because like I said, these may be old policies, but it's not in here. >> Yeah. Board >> and I rely on board docs a lot >> and not just you, our employees, the public, everybody. So, um it is critical that board docs is the most accurate
source of of policy. So, we are we I will make sure that the ones um that we have today um that that's clear. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> 8442 uh reporting accidents just updates accident reporting requirements to
reflect current Indiana law. 8452 uh automated external defibrills. Uh this strengthens AED requirements by establishing venue specific emergency plans and clarifying operational responsibilities.
8455 coach training references an IHSAA reporting. This updates coach coaching credential and training requirements including student safety, mental health and abuse prevention. And again, as I mentioned earlier, I specifically talked to our athletics uh director about uh
this policy and the other policies. And it's my understanding that we are actually um we're already complying with this uh this type this update. So, that's good to hear. 8462 child abuse and neglect. Uh this updates
the mandatory reporting references to reflect current law uh while preserving the existing reporting obligations. 9150 school visitors. Uh this updates visitor procedures to ensure uh military representatives receive the same access opportunities as like colleges and
universities receive. And then uh 36 uh the transportation of bus drivers own children. So that is a a new policy um that we are putting together. And what this does is it establishes a controlled
approval process that allows eligible bus drivers to transport their own children on assigned routes while maintaining appropriate operational and safety safeguards. So that you have this policy, a hard copy of this. the copy that you have is accurate because this
is one that we put together that I printed from you know word. Um and so um that policy you will see at the end of it there is a uh a board note there. And so before implementing this policy I did follow up with our uh representative
from JWF um our insurer to uh make sure that the implementation of this policy uh would not impact that. And so um they confirmed that that would not be an issue that you know in terms of our insurance coverage that um you know any anything relating to um you know the
passengers of the bus including their own children under this policy would be covered. So there's a board note that I did go through that uh that process. [clears throat] I think it's also worth noting that uh I know there are other school districts around that have policies similar to this. So it's not
like a novel or a new thing. Um but my understanding from our director of transportation is that there's actually quite a few um that this could impact and they have a process um on how this would look operationally um and that it could make a difference
with the ability to you know uh to retain drivers consistently uh [snorts] the student code of conduct. So the board also has um the student code of conduct. That's one of the separate staples that you have. So that
is also fully accurate updated. Um so the document that you have you could rely on. Uh the first page of that document is the summary of summary of changes. Yeah, it's a table. And so the student code of conduct like it comprehensively updates and reorganizes
the student code of conduct to reflect Indiana law corporation practices. And there are a few several substantive uh provisions that were updated. Um and I'll just go through those uh real quick. So [clears throat]
So the table in the front page of the of what the the board has of the full code of conduct, it lists changes made, the rationale for changes made. Um and that's also on page 11 of the document of the summary document that you have as well. >> [clears throat]
>> And so, you know, certain items were removed from the beginning of the code of conduct, inclusive culture, the SPCSC, schoolboard docs and links, reports of concern, things like that. Uh, these were removed uh to shorten the length of the original document.
Um, the message from the superintendent there, this area will be updated to reflect a new message. Um, let me see. Bully was revised to reflect new state guidelines. attendance revised to reflect new state guidelines, dress code
revised to reflect current policy and practice. So, you'll see that the changes to the code of conduct really are just to align with, you know, most of what we just went through. Um, and any in current Indiana law, the wireless communication devices in schools revised
based on the new state uh bell-to-bell guidelines, AI use, um, see the behavior matrix. The behaviors listed in the matrix were revised to match the IDOE behaviors and what the
corporation has listed in powers school. So um with that being said that completes uh the summary of you know all the documents that that are part of this policy set. Um,
if there are any questions, >> any questions? If not, I'll thank you. I'm very grateful for all the work you've done to get us here and hope that when we do a second reading, maybe we'll have a more
robust discussion about things like school choice and discretionary matters when it comes to chain of command. Apparently the text is never what we assume it to be that we interpret it in
a wide range of ways. But uh again, thank you and we'll take this up probably at the next meeting. >> Yeah, I would ask that the uh that this be included for a second reading on the 17th. Yeah. Um, like I said, I would
expect over the next few days to have the updated actual policy document and the uh the summary that I provided. Both of those will be updated, circulated electronically, and posted for the public to be able to view as well. So, that I would expect that to be done the
next few days because okay, I'm actively working with Neiola to get that situated. You >> you know, in the past, we've had someone from Niola come. Is it worth having that person on the 17th? I I mean I don't think so. And unless because I mean like we we get a certain
amount of hours. >> Um and so I actually sat with the Neola rep and went through several of these policies and finished them with with the Neola rep. Okay. Uh the cell phone policy. >> Um a lot of the because this update and uh the one from April had quite a few
like kind of new policies. Um so I specifically um met with the Neola rep because um it's helpful to have that discussion of you know the multiple the way that the policies are implemented in Niola is that there are options that you can select as a school corp and so it's
nice to have that um dialogue with niola of okay so what are what are what are other school districts doing is this one commonly selected um which was helpful when kind of going through some of the newer policies. So, um, if we were to have them come, they would charge us for
it. Um, so, you know, just got to be at the board's discretion. >> Okay. So, if everyone was listening and those who were here, we'll revisit this on August 17th. Mr. Ellison, >> I just had a question since we did have
a lot of discussion about the chain of command. Does Diola have a policy on that or suggestion or >> I think that the I mean the consensus is the policy we have is great like I I wouldn't recommend any changes to the policy that we have just just uniformly
enforcing it. >> Okay. Well, thank you very much everyone. Uh so we're up to uh item 10 items from closed session and there were none. So, uh, board communications, as
you know, the board has an opportunity to speak at this time and, uh, everyone who's listening who is here knows that, uh, we don't make any decisions at this point. So, uh, bear with us as, uh,
Mr. Castello, others. [laughter] >> No, Dr. McCull, >> I just have one quick question. Um people some folks are concerned or questioning. So I understand that in um
uh Swanson school has the only elementary band. I just want to know are there any um anything down the road that's going to put bands in any of our other schools other than just one school?
>> I believe uh Nuner has a band too. They have a marching band. >> Okay. Are we in are we going to at some point put them in the other elementary schools? >> Yes. >> Uh that want bands? >> Yes. >> Uh say for instance Wilson, uh Harrison,
uh Jackson, some other schools that that want bands. >> Yes. I can get together with >> Okay. >> I just want to make sure because um >> we just want to make sure our our children get a allaround education and then music is part of it. >> Yep. >> Just want to make sure. Appreciate it. Thank you.
>> Good question. talk to Mr. Shriber tomorrow and >> see what we can do. >> If there are no other questions or comments then I'll uh adjourn the meeting and mention f first mentioning
that again our next board meeting is in is Monday August 17th at Brown where we'll have our second reading of uh of our policies. Uh now I will adjourn and thank you for those of you who are listening and those who are here.