good evening everyone and welcome um if you have not yet registered and want to speak on any item or just make comments before the commission there's a signup sheet in the back please go ahead and put your name down so when we get to public remarks we can recognize you uh also just before we get started here if you can make sure to silence your cell phones or turn them off we'd appreciate it thank you very much we'll get started in a minute e good evening everyone and welcome to South Miami city hall today is Tuesday June 4th the time is approximately 7: p.m. uh the city of South Miami commission is now called to order again please silence or turn off all your cell phones we appreciate it uh Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes mayor Fernandez present Vice bonish here commissioner Cay here commissioner Leman president you have a quum thank you madam clerk if we could please all stand for a brief prayer and moment of silence followed by the Pledge of Allegiance before we begin I just want to extend uh our condolences to the family of Sonia Castro particular her son Gio Castro Miss Castro uh worked in the office most recently of commissioner Kevin cabrer at the county um she passed last week uh she spent a lot of time working before that for the PBA she's a dear member of the community and someone that we will greatly Miss and uh we want her family to that we'll be keeping them in our thoughts and prayers and as a personal point of privilege I also want to congratulate some Neighbors Dave and Andel lansburg on their 30th anniversary on some happier news so congrats to them Madame vice mayor if you could uh lead us in a prayer good and loving God our source of Love Light and wisdom bless us as we begin this vital work on behalf of our residents give us foresight by which we plan the future give us confidence to discover and explore new possibilities give us wisdom to discern what is right good and just send your creative Spirit upon us we ask for your guidance and Grace to use our talents for the advancement of our great City we ask this in your holy name amen amen K can you Le in the pledge please to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands naice thank you please be seated [Music] okay colleagues we have a couple presentations today one which is an add-on I apologize for the last minute Edition but I hope uh you'll deem it as worthwhile as I think it is um we have today some students from uh who are graduates from branches' program we want to recognize and to help us with that is Miss Khan still in the room Lori Khan if you can come forward these are five graduating seniors uh three of whom have earned a scholarship uh and bcan if you could just introduce them the students briefly and give us a little bit of background on each of them love to we'd appreciate it yeah and I would love for everyone to know branches is a faith-based family outreach program all of our uh all of our services are free we work with elementary middle school high school kids uh mainly focus on leadership development that's really in a nutshell what we do and we also work with adults in financial stability we are here tonight to recognize five of our seniors this is a special night for us because let's see these are the kids that um when I started here in South Miami 15 years ago now these are the kids that have started with me in kindergarten and now are graduating this year so I'm so excited and so blessed to introduce you guys to would you guys mind standing up I hate to do it to you I know Deni Capers Dariel Slayton Asia Davis T Vincent if y'all will come yeah come on guys G I have some really exciting news branches also offers a uh basic $10,000 scholarship for kids who apply uh with incentive so kids can uh earn up to $122,500 over the next four years for their undergrad um studies and so we have three students who have applied this this year and we would to present them with their scholarship Awards right so let's see Miss denah Capers gr a [Applause] [Applause] student and these are all South Miami kids fantastic our first generation of students every single one let's let's put them all on the spot right here if we can so if if you guys can step forward one at a time if you could do us a favor introduce yourselves and tell us where you'll be heading to college next year and right at the microphone please yeah should we put those boxes down they look pretty heavy my name is kise tumer and you said where where will I be yeah you're and you went to South Miami High School yes yes and and where are you going next year LSU and where you you hope to study biochemistry fantastic congratulations thank you thank [Applause] you my name is Asia Davis I graduated from Miami kilan s High and I'll be attending Florida State University starting in a summer majoring in Biochemistry a fantastic wow my name is Denia CIS I graduated from Cory senior high school I'll be going to Florida fa you for thetic University and I'm majoring in accounting fantastic congrats my name is AD Dariel Slayton I graduated from Miami keian Senior High um I'll be doing two years at Miami day then hoping to transfer to FIU for my bachelor's and oh and I'm majoring in pre- nursing fantastic yeah my name is Vincent blending um I graduated from South Miami senior high and I'm UND decided to play football at Mississippi prep or go to Miami day for college good job well congrats to all of you we have also some some more stuff for you to take home a little certificate of recognition just honoring your achievement here in this next step so if you want to come forward we'll recognize each of you and we take a picture thanks you want to take one STI [Applause] if you guys can squeeze in yeah because there a lot of guys no [Applause] here thank you so much [Applause] again congrats to all of you congrats to branches for all the great work you do in our community and uh we hope to see you all come back to South Miami and start a career and family here uh and to your parents obviously congrats to all of you on a significant accomplishment in their lives and your lives as well congrats to to you and your fam I'm sure you're all extremely [Music] proud okay okay moving on to something less exciting but still important we've got uh a presentation by uh Stephen Kevin Stone excuse me of kimley horn regarding our roadway pavement and sidewalk assessment thank you hey Kevin good evening good evening mayor Mr Mayor mad vice mayor thanks for having me today rest of the commission um so yeah I don't know how I'm going to follow that up um you guys are all doing amazing things congratulations and I wish you guys the best of luck in college um especially whoever's going to for that's there we go may just made some other enemies in here but that's all right you're done exactly so like you said something a little less exciting just as exciting for me um not as many people get as excited about pavement as I do but I'm just going to run you through up a little bit how's that any better okay I don't think it's on it is on I'll do my best to to stay nearby so so we recently performed um a pavement and sidewalk condition assessment management plan to help assist the city with the formation of their CIP um my name is Kevin Stone I work for kimly Hornet Associates I recently worked closely alongside reio carate of the CIP department and the of his team uh to perform this study uh it's been several months in the making um ignore the 2023 we actually did do the assessment in 2023 even though we're in 2024 now so not really mistake but uh just going to run you through a little bit of a background kind of how we got to where we are today I want to focus on the results but I think for context a little bit of uh the background why we do these sorts of studies what they entail sort of a lot of the effort that goes into it is is a little necessary to understand it but I will try not to bore you with a lot of the uh the the minutia and the details um so just starting off uh what are the goals of performing a program like this it's not just to not just to walk around and look at your streets and and measure cracks and things like that it's really to come up with a plan and it's really to help us prevent protect the Investments we've already made in the city you all put a lot of money into your city transportation network over the past uh several years and decades and for those that are in good condition we want to make sure that we're taking all the appropriate measures to protect that large investment and not just let those things deteriorate so that we're spending more money than we have to um a little joke I like to say is my dentist said hey if you want to keep your teeth all you need the only ones you want to keep you just need to or sorry which teeth do I need to keep don't only the ones you want to brush so I butchered that I apologize but same thing goes for your roads apologize my first time doing this in a long time essentially we have a lot of streets that are in good condition we want to make sure we're protecting those and that we're taking measures and we're not just ignoring them so that's one of the big goals of this program is something that we're hoping to set up for in the future so scope um I won't bore you with these details but essentially we collect a lot of data before we even go out into the the field and collect the conditions that are in your network once we do that we can then perform the analysis necessary to forecast what's going to happen in the future look at what the current conditions are and help make a plan for the future and and really assign some some costs some timing and come up with a plan that's going to that's going to make an impact schedule brings us to today we're end of March early June we've been working on this since last October so you can see right through the holidays into where we are today a little bit about some of the background again we look at a lot more than just what's going on in the surface we're looking at uh a lot of the information that is that is really uh lying within the database itself what type of surface do we have different types of streets behave differently require different sort of remediation tactics to you know to treat those they're going to cost a different amount of money so it's one of the things we like to look at first what types of streets do we have in terms of classification some are local roads some are uh collectors or materials larger roads like that so they require a different sort of again treatment when you're going to be treating those in the future um and then down to even which neighborhoods throughout the city it's going to help the city make decisions and make sure that out funding may be allocated evenly across the city we're not just putting all of our efforts into one area but we're looking at the at the network as a whole all right getting into the result results um so a lot of pretty colors here it's is sort of like one of the main deliverables that come out of a study like this right now we're just looking at the streets themselves we'll get to the sidewalks in just a minute here but starting with the streets first thing you might notice a lot of green so a lot of Pavements that are already in pretty good good to satisfactory as we call it condition that's a great place to be a great place to start but again it's just going to mean that some of those preventive maintenance techniques need to be some of our Focus moving forward lower cost items but we can attack much larger mileage of streets in in a given calendar year because they are those more lowcost maintenance items the ones that are the yellows the the Reds those are things that we're going to be doing more costly Alternatives like our Mill and overlays rebuilding the entire street but that's less than a quarter of our street Network so just something to keep in mind uh moveing forward um as we get into some of the the recommendations that we're making and sort of the the budgetary analysis that we ran which is kind of what brings us here today we'll skip over this a couple example photos it's kind of hard to see here but you can see what a better Street versus a worst Street might look like um obviously a lot of that cracking those deorations those potholes those bumps you can feel as you're driving those are going to indicate a worse Road should be no surprise and a lot of you know your know your city you might know where and where a few of those those bad eggs are again looking at you know we everything from every individual crack to deformations in the surface um this is just to show that we look at the types of distresses certain types that were are being present are going to be indicating more of that costly deeper alternative digging down digging out the pavement and the base below it some of them are going to be more surficial and and just overlaying over the surface if uh it's more of a an age related and not so much of a structural distress so just we look at all these things when we're trying to make these recommendations all right so now to the fun stuff dollars and cents so what we do is we we run what we call Budget scenarios in order to kind of help the city come up with a plan that's the first step before we can actually start assigning projects we need to know how far is my dollar going to take me what sort of budgetary Target should we be shooting for right because we may be you know having a budget of $200,000 but unless we know if my network is getting better worse remaining somewhat the same we're not really sure you know what sort of impact that budget might have so one of the first things we like to do is kind of find that break even point so what's that budget that's going to allow me to sort of maintain year-over-year my current Street Network in the condition it's in so the current average so PCI is a term I'll use it's pavement condition index 0 to 100 100 is perfect zero is completely failed so we're at an average of 77 right now or at least we were in December it's a pretty good place to be we're kind of in that higher you know in the satisfactory range some streets are better some streets are worse but I think a goal that we all need to strive forward in these situations is try to at least maintain that status quo we don't want to see ourselves get worse over time because then 10 20 years you extrapolate that down the road we're left with the deteriorating Network and we don't have we don't have Safe Streets really right um so when we R in our analysis we found that that break even point is right around $500,000 per year and that's a spread of different treatments that's our surface seals just again those like those like coats that go on the surface of the pavement all the way to our full depth reconstructions and it includes all different types of treatments from from the whole range um I won't get into all the nitty-gritty details as to the different kinds that we include but um we do look at for the good Pavements the medium Pavements and the worst Pavements and we try to prioritize those based on things like I showed earlier the type of street it is the classification ones with heavier traffic will receive a higher higher priority so those are what thrown into that sort of bucket of that half a million dollars per year uh that Top Line you see there I believe is the $1 million per year so that would bring us from about a current PCI of 77 all the way up to I believe it's an 81 or may not be reading that right 85 86 thank you um around that range so just to give us a ballpark as to kind of what that high end is what that low end is uh the gray line that is a scenario where let's say we at all the in the world and we addressed every street that has an issue today um and that would be right around a little over $4 million to address that all today again not realistic all of our roads would be closed at once who wants that who can just come up with that money on a whim but that's just to show you sort of the high end as to what the total backlog and what all of the issues in the streets sort of equate to um in terms of dollars just an example of what that looks like this is that all backlog that gray I just showed you so what we're addressing is 44 miles of the street Network that's ENT that's majority of the street Network um and you can see sort of those Bluer colors those are those prevented maintenance techniques and then some of the darker the oranges and the Reds those are those uh resurfacing full depth reconstructions you can see even though there's much less of those full depth reconstructions and things like that the dollar amount the price tag is just as high as the because it is much higher cost per cost per square foot or cost per square yard so dollars it's much more even but you're going to get a lot more streets treated with those preventive maintenance which is where we are today since a lot of our streets are already fairly good and we want to maintain them in that condition do we pause for questions and things like this or you we just run through all the way to the end go right ahead listening my colleagues have any questions no see you're leaving you're fine sounds like he is continue please thank you okay absolutely uh this is an example again of of the other scenario that 500,000 per year the sort of this is our break even point you can see doesn't look like as many streets are getting treated every year um I believe this treats about seven miles or so this first this is example of just what the first year looks like on the right there about seven miles and again you can see broken down by the amount of Miles treated with each te each um treatment technique the dollars that assigned and then the percentage of that backlog so if you look at the top left there under the lighter blue header the 23% that means 23 of 23% of the roads at that time that needed a Reser or a surface seal would be receiving a surface seal with that budget so just to show you a kind of a breakdown of what that looks like another important thing to note here when we're looking at these different budget scenarios um something that's really important I want to point out um it's easy to assume if you know $4 million would get me my entire network okay $500,000 over eight years it should do the same thing not necessarily true like I said these streets they do deteriorate over time so every street we're not doing each year is going to further deteriorate and just add to that list of backlog so this is going to the backlog remains relatively level with this scenario this kind of half a million dollar Mark so just the more more we can allocate than that or the less we allocate as compared to that that backlog is going to either shrink or grow a relative comparison it's kind of hard to visualize um with a graphic but it's just an important message I wanted to get across with something like this um before we get into sidewalks that is the end of the street information I wanted to present gonna get into sidewalks next there's a little less there so if there are any questions I want to open it up real quick before we before we jump ahead Madam Vice May you're recognized thank you um who and how are the decisions being made On what streets are getting what when because if you go back one slide you'll notice but you mean today or in in this plan because if we look at the backlog if you look at the top of the grid you'll see that there's a whole series of streets that we actually mentioned earlier yes that are in really bad shape but if you go to the next one if this is the the plan of the first year it doesn't address any of that and so I I'm not I don't understand how we would prioritize what happen when sure so I'm I'm going to I'm going to keep it here for just a moment just because it kind of it's just a simpler list but if we focus on that work type category um essentially you can think of the better conditions are those crack seal surface seals and the worst conditions are those full depths so we have a lot of streets that are in each category so it's a matter of choosing which streets are going to provide the highest cost benefit it's a cbv cost benefit value it's a number we actually assigned and that looks at things like I just mentioned which um type of street it is so a collector or an arterial make it a higher priority than a local road because it's more heavily traveled uh in in kind with that ones that have more traffic so we look at traffic data ad ADT is it's called or a um we look at that information as well one of the biggest things we look at though is where within that treatment range we are so let's say something is uh okay I'm use some some specific terms here but the PCI of 70 to a 55 that's the range we look at for millon overlay okay so if something is a 56 let's say that means that in a year from now if we don't address it today it's going to be in the category for a full death reconstruction it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to definitely require that there's always some outliers we do project level studies before we actually go out and you know break ground so some of these changed slightly but in general it's jumping into the next category so that would have a higher cost benefit value than something that was let's say a PCI of 68 that just got into that range it's saying that the cost of deferring this to next year the year after is high gotta so that has a higher cost benefit value so generally those those sections when we say sections a blocked block that's how we segment out the whole entire network so intersection intersection typically the stretches that are in that range you know it's going to be detriment if we wait those get the higher value so those are the ones that are chosen uh here so it looks at a $500,000 budget it looks at how much is in you know how much do these streets cost and it says I can I can you know my cbv values are in order from greatest to least across the network this and it includes so many payments from each category got you question yes and that changes each year so once they deteriorate next year that may be a may be a low cost benefit value if we didn't address it this year for example if it does fall into that next or it may get higher just depends where it is in the range k k you have a question thanks mayor um so this the plan that you guys executed here this is a fiveyear plan yes so you already set out what would what roads would be touched for the next 5 years if we decide to do the $500,000 a year budget we do have yes we do have that list of Roads we haven't we haven't landed on a final plan yet just because it's going to wa up be depending on Final budget numbers right so right now it's in this state of these different scenarios that we could choose to choose to address okay 750 500 250 a million those are all sort of plugged into the program that we provide so any of those those are all in there right now 500,000 is the one we just we chose to include in our final report that um is sort of our our Benchmark so yes got it and so I guess this question is more for the city manager as well um we allocate $500,000 and and obviously this would be in our CIP budget um the plan will be set forth we allocate the budget and the people to do this work based on the plan for the next five years if we decide to do this $500,000 a year job is that is that accurate yeah so currently we we we've been sort of living within our means of what the PTP provides on an annual basis and then there's a visual inspection of roads and that's how we determine which ones uh from this standpoint I think it speaks to a little bit of higher investment um so U Kevin spoke man just on that point what are we what are we spending on a recurring basis let's say the last three years going backwards on average four to 500 Four to 500,000 so so we are just below this minimum Target number of 500k a year to kind of keep our roads in their current condition correct but you know obviously uh part of what this informs is you know how do we kind of get ahead a little bit more nood I just want to understand where we are bench so we're not even at we're not even at the proposed minimum Benchmark today okay just just under just shy of just shy of I mean if there's if you can go back to the other slide that showed the different uh this one right here so we would be somewhere in that 72 to 76 uh PCI number if we currently stayed at our current budget is that what I'm understanding uh repeat that again so you see that 250,000 annual 500k annual it's between 72.5 which is the PCI number we spoke about uh we would be somewhere in that number correct yeah within that range so I think but I think the punch line there for me is if we continue on the current path we're going to see continued declines in the average PCI score is that a fair statement what our what our analysis shows us yes yeah so our roads generally will will continue to degrade uh based on their current condition yeah yeah and and so the exercise uh obviously was to have a a more defined um uh plan from a stamp on what really were the conditions Beyond maybe a visual inspection um you know about 1.1 million uh I think was a category of poor to fair I believe right so if if we if we said hey you know what let's let's take care of some of the worst of the worst um you know that could potentially be a strategy now I it he he didn't mention but maybe you can briefly touch on the portal um and and the dashboard if you will that that you demonstrated to us and and that tool for us from a real-time standpoint you know we can play with scenarios we can plug in hey if we invested x amount and so there's a portal that we we would have access to um that has all this populated and and maybe you can speak to briefly on that briefly yeah I alluded to it uh when you answer your question that that's the software where I say it's plugged into it's called drive it's softw that we've developed in house that we provide on these studies and it has all this data plugged in all the visualization we just looked at but also has a way to plug in this information and say if I were to repave you know these five streets next year what would that do to my condition what would that do to my backlog and it actually Imports it'll import this study right here this 500,000 let's say and show you this is what those results look like that's how we develop these Graphics here so we can change that we can say I want to do this 500,000 but I want to move a couple streets around what will that do well now it'll be these streets are our Target so it's kind of a living program if we do or don't achieve what we plan set set out to do that year we can plug that in and then when we do perform that work we can update the condition to be new good in software so that it's then showing as you know what what it is reality basically it would it would update and and that life cycle right so now we have a tool that that informs us you know real time if you will once we make some improvements so to the mayor's point I mean continue to do what we're doing we're not really getting get getting ahead of this issue necessarily um the maintenance aspect really you're falling behind a little bit that's reality well I think this this this system actually creates a little bit of you know AI or some type of uh strategic way of going about these things so we can keep those numbers before we weren't really doing that right we were just kind of you visually applying what we thought looked bad right I yeah there was a field field inspection but this you know brought in more technology and we had like you know sort of a Ghostbusters or Batmobile that that drove around our entire city sort of obtaining some of this information um I guess maybe a laser grade or or so that was a level of technology that was utilized to make a determination on uh you know existing conditions so that that goes to my second question so when you guys did the Baseline to put all this data into drive you guys visually did all the laser guided and made sure everything all the streets that you guys went through was imported into the system for a baseline correct yeah so we do it's a two-pronged approach we have the the van collection that does all the looks at profiling at ruts it looks at cracks it's millimeter accuracy but then we do a boots on the ground sort of QC or validation of that so we look at 10% of the streets in per minimum in person to make sure that it's checking out that the recommendations we're making you know we're putting our stamp on it so we technolog is great but we don't want to just 100% trust it right so we actually come out and do that Bo On The Ground as well so it's kind of a validation thank you absolutely yeah a sidewalk was the last piece that he could touch upon and ier yeah yeah from that one is is is certainly quicker and um very manageable I think based on the findings to to restore in our current conditions maybe get just touch on the sidewalk sure thing a little hard to see here but what we're looking at is is all the sidewalk repairs throughout the city so this was actually all a visual in person boots on the ground assessment where we're dropping points wherever we see issues safety hazards things like that we did rate rate every segment of sidewalk good Fair poor however um sidewalks deteriorate a little differently than streets do typically a sidewalk you won't see every square inch of that sidewalk needs a repair it's Pockets right so a poor sidewalk may have four repairs that are needed so that's why and through discussions and kind of working through this we said you know the best approach here for your network would be to just focus on those individual repairs and then the overall conditions will take care of themselves we may have you know a few slabs in a row that we're replacing in certain areas I'm sure you're thinking of places right now that is coming to mind but um that's what all these red dots we're seeing here are these are all those individual repairs couple example photos as to what those may look like we're looking at things like root uplift a shattered slab it's in four or more pieces um where we need to be grinding the sidewalk where there might be you know a fault or a trip Hazard there so we look at all of those things and this is just sort of that data sort of aggregated and summarized a total of just under 500 repairs ranging against from everything horizontal saw cutting to replacing a full panel um and that equates to roughly $140,000 worth of repair throughout the city if um if that number you know catches your attention it was in our CIP we kind of just PLO that in in the meeting we had earlier you see that number in there as a fully fully loaded fully funded uh given given this you know the the price point I thought it was something manageable that we could obtainable and really make a uh make a big flash as as it relates to our sidewalks and I'll just mention too just no one's asked the question but these cost data what this is pulled from this is pulled from previous work that the city has performed on these repairs it's pulled from real information as well as checked against um the Miami city of Miami piggyback rates that that we have so we check those sort of both sides of things and that's was the formulation for for these costs it's not just a not just Statewide average it's really local recent cost that we look at thank you questions colleagues none uh can I just ask so what is the recommendation that you have Mr manager I mean I think obviously the sidewalker pairs is an obvious one easy one to get to but where what's the Target that you think we should be at with respect to uh uh enhancing the condition of our roadways I mean obviously relative to other needs that we may have uh um you know so I I qualify that but I I think we should be looking at you know minimum maybe a 750 uh and taking a look at that so we can really get ahead and and and not get into a situation where roads are deteriorating and dropping in category um but obviously we're taking a look at that a little bit more and and seeing you know after today's CIP worksh so roughly just against the last year's budgeted number which I have on the very handy sheet you gave us earlier for the discussion roughly that's we were at $345,000 last year okay if I'm doing my math correct I I'm not sure if that's ACC or not I'm looking at 392 but I'm taking out the $50,000 Le budget in sidewalk repairs so it's roughly what 3425 so as colleagues we're talking about to get to a place possibly doubling the amount of effort financially we need to um to meet that Benchmark and and the doubling from a funding source standpoint would half of that would would be fall on general fund correct right the other half would come out of the uh PTP or local option gas tax we've been using okay okay Steve thank you for the presentation for the good work we appreciate it thank you all for having thank you go let's strike that from the record yes please second that we're all in agreement on that okay do we uh Madam cler do we have any added items this evening no okay uh we have uh need a motion to defer I guess the minutes correct yes uh we have been advised that Mr cus is not attending he had a conflict this evening he'll be coming on uh for future presentation uh I'm sorry is there are there minutes we need to defir Madam Clerk or they're just not ready is just not ready okay not a problem uh Mr manager your report please good evening as you all know so me second Saturdays the second one is going to be this Saturday we have almost 40 vendors this month we'll have a Kids Zone there's going to be live music as well so that's from 5: to 10 p.m. at South Miami senior Plaza there's going to be a Father's Day event on June 14th at 10:00 a.m. so the participants are going to receive chair massages a catered lunch and they're going to have music and rles on the communications and marketing side we're going to have the city's new and improved upgraded website uh it's ready to launch June 27th so we'll do a short presentation on that during our July 2nd meeting and we have a Citywide mailer that we call how to connect with the city it'll be going out in the next couple of weeks so you should all see it in your mailboxes this is a larger version of it but basically it has a QR code that links you to our link tree so all the links that have to do with the city city the events our website um our non-emergency number our main line the back has garbage pickup information our holiday information so all the residents should be receiving this in the next couple of weeks that's the manager's report thank you any questions to the manager no thanks again thank you Mr City attorney your report please okay uh nothing to report thank you so we'll open up the floor for public remarks uh if you have not signed up please come forward add your name to the clipboard here at the front uh first on the list Mr Ward your recognizer good evening seeing the branches people here today was a real pleasure I had a lot of their parents in school at South Miami years ago and it's really good to see that these parents these former students are now uh the fathers are the mothers of a good family I was at South Miami Senior High Graduation last Thursday and saw a lot of students naturally that used to go a lot of parents not students a lot of parents that used to be at our school one of the things I wanted to ask about tonight I know I haven't seen anything and some people have been asking what the outcome of that election is but I want to ask the question about is the cart before the horse have you I know you all haven't given up which I wish you would but I know you haven't I doubt that you will but we shall continue to attack you but it seems that you haven't really thought where you're going to put City Hall while you're gone for 2 to three years or where are you going to put the library temporarily for two to three years now I was looking at a list of I don't know how long a list of the planning board that they have and this is something that it's a list of what I guess you all are possibly going to maybe ask them to consider and approve and I saw on there one of them it was very interesting and I don't know if I'm making the right assumption or not but it said the Jr El school and underneath it it said City Hall and I wondered what in the world is that and then I put two and two together and I see the way you're shaking your head my two and two came out five and uh but I'm glad to hear that because I was going to tell you there's there is a a lot of in things you have to you would never be able to do with the school board and J Lee because JRE Lee if it ever became something other than an education center uh it would revert back to the original property owner and I guess it'd take you a couple of years but you all probably could buy it from them but U Jr Le at one time uh the school board actually put all offices in there and the family told them if students aren't there we're taking it back so now they have about two classes of uh special students in the building but I am hopeful I went to the library just for funding a few days ago and there were you know if you've been in the library weren't you very impressed with that children's area I was amazed I hadn't been in that in a long time and in talking with them they were ready to kill you if you think you're going to open where are we going to be for the next 2 to 3 years and I said well it isn't done yet but keep your eye open but I hope you it it it just one of the things that bothers me and and you all probably won't like me saying this it appears to me that you were elected to serve the best interest of the city and whether you believe it or not the best ENT of the city isn't going to be pay isn't going to be tearing down down the library and tearing down City Hall and one last remark rather than get rid of City Hall Gan Willis park over there and rather than calling it genan Willis Park call it Gan Willis Annex and that would be a way if you built a nice Annex the people in the old building over here could move in there the people upstairs could move over there police department would now have room to expand and you wouldn't have to tear this joint down and uh I'd hate to see it go thank you thank you for your comments sir uh Mr Israel Rosado good evening good evening and thank you foring me today um I'd like to kind of come up with one thing a problem and a solution I think I have both hand inand working together um I live along Southwest 6th Avenue I Southwest 6th Avenue if I you allow me to approach i in it pleas thank you no it's fine we'll we'll give extra time n it worries thank you sir sorry I just want to make sure that commissioner leadman who's on there gets a gets to see this visual as well so if somebody could take a photograph and text it to him thank you please continue yes thank you very well um so the issue here is speeding right and it's not just light speeding it is intens right um off Miller which between the hours of 3 to six o'clock if you've ever gone westbound on Miller you know the traffic it serves as a cut through for that so you have that cut through traffic going through at high velocities a curve there so there's a blind spot there for drivers and unfortunately we talked about sidewalks we don't have one right and so pedestrians anybody who's walking along we have 16 kids along that Corridor um they're out there with their parents and just you know having you know children activities if you will along the street it poses a danger to them um my kids included my kids excluded let's there's the other 14 kids are still there um in addition to this um there's the University of Miami traffic that goes from Southwest 60th Street which is a feeder into Southwest 6th unfortunately younger people um take less responsibility in terms of speeding or honoring anything that speed limits and they unfortunately go very high velocities six years ago I started working with the city of uh South Miami with the police department uh we've gone through process of having station police cars we've gone through this process of having speed readers there when it's working a lot of times it's been out of service for XYZ reasons and we've had actually individuals are cops you know um there um measuring speed and giving tickets um that has really you know it's a temporary solution it hasn't been a permanent solution then we've L into the process of actually contacting the city last two years I've been emailing back and forth trying to get something done along this I believe a simple solution is simply putting a speed home you know there speed bump along that I'm not asking to deter traffic I'm not asking to change the traffic flow all I'm asking is for people to slow down the people that don't live there might not be aware might not be conscientious of there or the temporary residents which I called the students unfortunately don't respect the laws as much as they you know should or could so with this I you know I propose this in terms of by the following I've taken the 27 homes along that Corridor um there's along the among the 27 homes there's a vacancy there's a vacation there's a vacation home and there's a person that's currently hospitalized why do I mention that because the other 24 homes that live there have signed petitions individual petitions to approve this right or to move this forward U because it's a concern um so I'd like to submit that to the city for your review and your consideration thank you colleagues any questions of Mr Rosado we have them no I have no questions uh we will yes ma'am go ahead I I agree with you i' I've gone down this street multiple times on my scooter it's you're taking your life in your hands yes particular particular on the curve yes y it it's it gets hairy the northern curve is a little scary yeah yes I appreciate that comment um you know you as obviously uh sitting in your seat being able to you know observe the traffic in that area and hopefully this is a motion that could be set so we we we discussed it earlier in the budget meeting so it's something we're going to definitely look into thank you I appreciate it and thank you for doing the leg work of actually getting the signatures is one of the things that happens we've gotten a complaint before we go through the process of studying it it comes on the back end and neighbors object to it so this helps make sure that we've got the requisite support we can spend the money we can go there and do the Improvement I will thank you very much who do I submit this sir just leave with the clerk please thank you thank you very much have good evening uh Mr John Edward Smith you're up next sir good evening good evening Mr Mayor Madam vice mayor Commissioners Josh how are you sir City Administration uh John Edward Smith a resident of South Miami actually next Friday will be 50 years uh in my home on 64th Court I'm not going to have a party this year little later in the fall when the weather is better um I want to commend the initiatives being undertaken with the city manager's office and their marketing initiatives uh not only in the business Community but also promoting all of the Departments within the city I think it's just been a marvelous job a great job job um the feedback that I'm receiving from the business Community is just excellent people feel that the city is really engaging with them and um making their lives a little better uh I appreciate the interviews of I don't know what uh chip I don't know what to call you with with your interview style you're doing great job you know what's it called chips corner chips corner is it and um Samantha with her community outreach I I especially want to point out um the U the recognition of town center and I saw an interview with Brenda noi who is a designer and she has her business on Red Road in Cor in Miami County so we're reaching out to people the different businesses in the area that are all part of our town center what makes our town center alive and that's the whole focus of developing relationships with Coral Gables Miami date County and integrating them into what we're doing here I think it's just been it's been great great I was recently criticized by a former elected official for promoting a restaurant in uh Sunset Drive which was in Coral Gables and I responded and I said well you're very parochial you know uh we need to think a little larger in in where we are and I I that come as you know who I'm probably talking with that email went back and forth for a while um but I think that was really great uh when we had Jake's Restaurant now or then where Butcher and the beauty Beauty And The Butcher is um they promoted themselves as the heart of South Miami and that's really what we need to be looking at um second Saturdays as was noted is this coming Saturday uh we're going to have some fantastic entertainment uh Jared Dylan will be the lead Entertainer we're going to have a DJ Brazilian DJ tattoo and um kosa is in Europe performing in Europe but his brother Mary who is also an accomplished violinist will be filling in for him and we will have our visual artist Julian ero uh he won't be he won't be throwing Flames this time now put the extinguish to that at least for we don't want to do that all of the time special times that that's great um on a personal note um I've been involved with young people for a number of years I had the privilege of working with the jrc at South Miami High School who served as artwalk ambassadors for our second Friday uh seasonal second Friday of the month SOI artwalk a young man named Kevin Fernandez first was part of artwalk when he was a freshman in the JROTC I was privileged to watch his commissioning at West Point on last Saturday the 20 or two Saturdays ago on the 25th um I recognized him when he was a sophomore that he's going to be a leader and indeed he became the Battalion uh BC of the of the unit when he was a senior and like many of the the graduates he he went off and got married this past Saturday at Little Flower church but it's just to see this develop over a few years is just it's very it's amazing it's it's great to see this and see how our young people are coming up uh particularly in organizations such as jrc which I'm Excuse me very much suppor of so sometime hopefully in the future I'll have him here to introduce himself to you and and talk about his uh experiences he's a quite a fine gentleman we'd love to have him it's a young I mean he's a short guy and all all of the groomsmen coming down the aisle they were like I knew they were military the way they were walking with the Bridesmaids and they were all like 6'2 and Kevin is probably like up to he on me so it was really it was really interesting thank you thank you sir Madam clerk is there anyone online who'd like to uh address this commission anyone on Zo sir come up to the microphone we'll let you we'll have a second he is he's a he is a distinguished South Miami Alum from South May middle anyone on Zoom please raise your virtual hand if you like to speak I don't see anyone you see no one online we will close public remarks thank you everyone um I'm going to skip over commission reports and move on to the consent agenda colleagues are any items we want to pull for discussion yes please please Madam vice mayor which item I'd like to pull number three okay uh any others colleagues yes sir number two I was going to ask for the same thing thank you sir so two and three um if there are no others can I get a motion to uh I get ask read items one and four into the record Madam clerk yes item one a resolution of the mayor and City Commission of the city of South Florida approving and authorizing purchese of new desktop phones for the city's cloud-based telephone system from switch Tech International Inc DBA T switch and amount not to receive 16,35 item number four a res on the May and City Commission of the city of souman for approving and authorizing expend of funds to Miami day County for school crossing guard services and amount not to exceed $95,000 for a fiscal year 20 2023 2024 thank you is there a motion on items one and four I'll move the motion we have a motion second a motion by commissioner Gaia second by the vice mayor Madam clerk if you can call the r on items one and four please yes um commissioner Cay yes um vice mayor Bon yes commissioner Leman yes mayor Fernandez yes consent pass 4 Z great can you read item two for the record please yes item two a resolution of the mar City Commission of the city of sou selecting th Consulting Inc for parking study services foring to a request for proposal number FN 20243 and amount not to receive $ 48,800 thank you uh um colleagues I see that Mr Romy Valera here with th is in the audience did you have any questions for him or the administration on the item me you uh commissioner lean I know you had asked for this item to be pulled did you have any questions or comments you want to share with us Ju Just comments okay you're recognized it sir okay thank you is so um pardon me I I I certainly understand the Genesis of this we've had several debates on the commission our lot of dialogue it will be helpful to have some uh some hard numbers a lot of that has to do with with with ticketing and and potentially uh liberalizing free parking but um and and demand going forward my when we were first called my recollection was around 10,000 we were all called by the deputy city manager and the finance director asking if we would support this I could be wrong I was C manager was 17 so if it was 10 it came in five times as much at 48 and if it was 17 it's coming in at three times as much U I understand a preliminary study but this is uh four two to 400% more there originally quoted and the end of the day it's it's a lot of it's simple math it's supply and demand I I I just um I mean I I I would like to move with some urgency I share your concerns commissioner I know when I think it was first discussed with me it was you know the thought was it would be in the order of $115,000 I believe that part of the feedback we got from staff was that we had substantially expanded the scope beyond what they had originally told us which is why we're at this number I just wanted to make the point not I'm I'm going to plan to vot to support this item it's something that's come from the Town Center is the one thing they brought forward they want us to really invest dollars in understand uh our current parking situation future parking demand needs pricing Etc uh the point I wanted to make is again I've been harping on ticketing as a problem uh last meeting we were told 41,000 tickets issued annually off of a high of 63,000 tickets in our uh Little City uh I've confirmed with the help of the Mr riveral that 84% of those tickets come from our town center so that's just shy of 31,000 tickets that's 84 tickets on less than 350 on street parking spaces that means that one out of every four tickets one of every four spaces gets a ticket every day so that's roughly $650,000 of Revenue out of that cohort of ticket so um for me the most important part of this you know I I think the answers to your point commissioner lean with respect to this are somewhat obvious we can look at what supply and demand has been there's no demand for parking most evenings in our town center yet we are ticketing well in excess of our parking receipts um it's a huge cash extraction in my estimation out of our out of our town center at uh certainly a reputational cost if not real cost to each of them and so what I just want to make sure is that we're going to get the study done within the time frame that's represented in the staff report which I think was 45 days no later because I want I want the findings very clearly with respect to the parking and enforcement to be finalized before we vote on a budget because certainly I want to figure out how we put some money back in the Town Center as opposed to the big sucking mechanism that is our general fund to the tune of just under $700,000 a year from those that very limited amount of parking um again we talk about wanting to do things to help the Town Center this is where I think one of the obvious places we can start to at least reduce the pain of people coming to South Miami and I recognize some of them are not paying but we have had historically a very aggressive posture with respect to enforcement so that's my speech I'm done any further comments from anyone else for the mayor yes oh sorry commissioner Le I'll recognize you after commissioner K gets his first crack Go sir oh so thank you um so I I was just going to say part of the study hopefully is how we try to do and maybe we can add this is you know uh reputation management on what we've been through as a as a HomeTown uh we need to fix that right so traditionally what you said is correct we you know we've been known as a as a a city that tickets a lot saying that though when we when we see this study we don't charge too much right and we're giving a 15minute leniency here I I believe that's something we started recently as well so it's just you know we don't charge that much mayor we just got to really figure out a how do we get the rep reputation back but B make sure that people understand that we are the lowest maybe it's a marketing campaign that we can say look the city of South Miami is only a150 an hour We're compared to all of our neighbors I'm just saying the study could help us do a lot of different other things and I commend a lot the uh our our hometown uh board advisory on really recom making this recommendation so we can uh move forward on this particular topic because I we've been harping on it in a long time commiss leing you wanted to say something else yes sir good question and I I appreciate mayor I know we've had this conversation so many times your position um but to pick you back with commissioner Kai was saying based on staff research we allow for more time we allow the longest race period of any other city in the county at 15 minutes the other thing I wanted to add which may help justify the expense ask staff is if this money can come from the parking impact fee because legally all those money is collected from a parking impact fee which is something that businesses pay especially restaurants that are short on parking um legally that money all those monies have to be used for parking purposes do we still collect the parking impact fee can we just we do I'm sorry what's that what is that money use for a fro can can kind of give some other particulars but yeah program still exists evening yes we collect on the West Side Hometown or Town Center no longer has a HomeTown parking fee but on the west side we do still what is what is the west side for the uh for those of us who are not in the know west of us one west of us one west of us one that is that the north side of us one I think I don't think it was East and West so everything everything everything near this building town center everything near this building correct okay so if you don't meet the parking requirements you're required to buy monthly parking passes to make up those parking spaces if you don't mean your minimum code requirement correct parking okay so what we don't have per se it used to be $1,000 per space per year we no longer collect that now it's just built into monthly parking permits so it's not it's designated within the general fund it's collected just like our monthly parking and where are those folks parking if I may ask on any they get decals and they Park in decal locations and locations that are designated for monthly parking okay further questions I I just have one comment and it it feeds into what all of you are talking about people know they have to pay for parking they decide not to pay for parking we don't overcharge but In fairness and poor Alfredo lives through this I've my my mother-in-law got a ticket while she was standing at the corner after she got out of her car trying to find signal to pay into the thing I I have someone who got the ticket while they had already paid literally at the same minute the same minute they pay their transaction process they got a ticket so and there is no o there is just zero yes there is no o yes so look I I I think where I depart maybe from the rest of the day is philosophically is the reason I believe we have parking enforcement we charge is to keep the inventory available right you charge so that you can make it easy for people to transact business in the Town Center if we want to think of this as a revenue Center that's fine but I think you know clearly the numbers right you know and hopefully the consultant will come back with their own observations but my observations are that there are substantial points in time during the day where we have no demand and we're still enforcing right which to me is that's where I have the problem it's not when we have demand because if we have demand we want people to turn those spaces over so they can get in and out of our businesses but in the late in you know early to late evenings no one on the street we're still the the streets are empty why we're even spending the money on enforcement is it's mind-boggling to me so you know I think those are that's better to let people come here park enjoy a meal stay longer right than give them a parting gift on an evening when the inventory is wide open and that certainly happened to me and happened to many people sure happened to all of us at points in time before we got those wonderful little decals that uh take us off of the enforcement list so yes ma'am so are what are we going to do with the comment from commissioner leedman for to have it to come out of certain monies sent it flows into general fund it's a non-starter okay yeah okay so uh do we have a motion on item two I'll move the motion okay was there a second you second I I'll second it have a motion by commissioner G is second by myself uh mam Clark please call the role yes commissioner Le no Vice May bones yes commission Kay yes mayor Fernandez yes Adam pass three one thank you can you read item three please item three a resolution of the mayor City Commission of the city of South Florida approving a proposal and project agreement with kimley horn and Associates to provide professional consulting services for Au reports and other services for the Little House Reserve park at 6609 Southwest 60th Street Phase 1 and amount not to exceed $3,410 thank you colleagues uh questions or comments regarding item three please Madam vice mayor we want me to start I have a mouth full of candy you P it yes sorry I have candy in my mouth okay you want to start or are you ready I'm I'm good I'm good okay I have an issue with this not because it's the Girl Scouts not because it's anything but when I when I look at a property and it's leased to someone and their responsibility is to maintain it that that's what they should be doing and if they cannot maintain it then a conversation needs to be had with the city which happens to be the owner of that property to then say hey we can't do this and here's what we're willing to do as a team Girl Scouts City to make this better if we simply are coming up and saying hey you haven't kept up your end of the bargain you are not maintaining this and now it is going to cost upwards of $200,000 between looking at all the trees that are there and actually getting the work done so you're looking to the residents to cover this what I consider exorbitant fee when someone hasn't met their part of an agreement I would rather say hey let's sit down and talk about how we're going to change this lease agreement so that it benefits all of us and then come up with how we're going to do this putting the cart before the horse doesn't seem like an in incentiv viser to me Chris lean yes thanks I be remissed of course if I didn't tell a story I don't even know if it of the top 50 funniest moments but we had a commissioner who was telling a parent of a Girl Scout at the podium that there was a good opportunity to teach the Girl Scouts how to use a chainsa and then we had uh the lobbyist to represent Sunset Place and the mixed use grocery project in the back cracking up and when I asked him what was beyond was said he said well the person was at the podium uh heads up durm for the county you had a commissioner telling her teach her daughter how to use a CH chainsaw to chop down trees so um number one I just look at it first of all not anti- Girl Scouts this is pro City budget there's can Google it there's 1.97 surrounded to 2 million charities in the country um we're elected to be stewards for the city so although we are suppor of the Girl Scouts and have been in addition to this facility we're comping fees so they can meet at the uh at Gibson bethl the issue is is whatever this issue is I've only heard complaints from staff not not from residents or the Girl Scouts and this has been an ongoing conversation in terms of the city putting in some money to help maintain the property for Access it's it's never materialized you're talking about a dollar a year so we can't even do the math and the exponential expense this may say 73,000 but just less than an hour earlier we went over in the budget a line item for a quar million dollar 250,000 again a a dollar release and um it's I I don't see I very con the property I don't but I don't see it as much as the vice mayor maybe commissioner Cay but it's the property's Lush it's wooded and it doesn't bother residents it's an entire lot and the other thing is is we have you have people on staff this is simply the marketing basis the price tag seems just seems quite High to me and um yeah there's there's no way I can support this especially we have greater needs and greater priorities in my opinion I have a question vice mayor you you live right down the street from there what what are the residents do you think in the neighborhood think about this particular property I have never I literally if I live on a corner if I go down and look left it's right there so it's literally one block from my home I've never had one conversation with anyone not while I've been outside as a resident not while I walked at when I was running for office I've never ever had a conversation with anyone except people who work for the city about this property and while I think it would be a great benefit if it was you know not fenced in and it was nice and it was something that was just like not a nature walk because that gives me total creepy Vibes but I mean I'm like I'm I'm sorry you put a bunch of little girls in a nature walk and a bunch of it just no it doesn't add up for me but if you take off the fence and you were to make it like you know just a regular little park that's one conversation but like I said an agreement needs to be reached with the Girl Scouts on what would even happen there before any of this happens I feel like we're we've found a problem come up with a solution are running to get it done and nobody has stopped to think one should we do this two why should you know like why do it I just I I think we're inventing a problem and then trying to solve it if that makes any sense so I I I just me just ask a point for a point of information I mean because I think there's some there's certainly some wisdom and some things have been said here um I mean I I walked the neighborhood obviously when I campaigned and Mr R's parents live just across the street from it on the north side um so familiar with it when we were kids as well when they bought that house 25 years ago so um you know my observation is that people want it not to be an active property they like that it's uh natural I will my my observation was that certainly the edges of that property both on the north south side are not you know not attractive we should definitely improve that at the minimum but just with respect to the lease because before the dynamic here was one where the city and the Girl Scouts were kind of in a des spiral with our prior City attorney and one one commissioner who I think may have been the one that commissioner uh uh commissioner lean was referring to what do they have an affirmative obligation to maintain this wooded area under the lease because the lease I I remember reading the lease I would say it's not the most artfully drawn lease noas it's pretty pretty terrible frankly uh so do they have an affirmative obligation to maintain the property they don't have a stated obligation they have they have a 99e lease and for a dollar a year it would be the inference is that they should be maintaining the property under so that I wanted to highlight that point specifically because I know that you know certainly as we would say in Spanish SK Lata that they would be required to maintain it but the lease as it's drawn mean it falls from the tree like the Apple falls off from the tree right that they should be retaining it but the lease is garbage right hot garbage probably is a better way of describing it and so there's no I think they you know if we went to court it I'd be hard you know it would have that term would have to be inferred into the agreement right by by the by the reviewing court and so second so I think certainly you know I know the managers had some conversations I had conversations probably with um Mr ticona who's I think the chapter president for tropical whatever tropical Girl Scouts of South South Florida here and they certainly want to change the dynamic uh we want to certainly negotiate more use rights for the benefit of the non-ir Scout The non- Scouting public um you know where we end up those conversations no one knows yet what we do know is what we do what we understand you know as I understand one of the problems is that we've got an area that's kind of overrun with non-native vegetation again how critical a problem that is you know maybe not as critical as otherwise would be but we can defer this assessment uh we're certainly talked about in the budget that we just reviewed on the CIP side I think it was a substantial amount of money to actually do the improvements in fiscal year 25 um I don't think anyone mentioned pulling that amount of money out of that or or did we I didn't we said we were going to talk about it here cuz Okay I I that's why I missed it so if if um if that's the case then you know I think these two items live and die together right from my perspective but I would say to you that putting some money on the table is probably the greatest inducement to actually getting them to re reformulate the lease which I think is something they want to do from what we understand because they can't they can they certainly cannot maintain as I understand the cost of preserving the structure that they do utilize uh I think had trouble procuring Insurance because it was conditioned in the past and so these are all issues that are kind of coming to AE together the question is which challenges do we want to tackle first so Mr Mr maner did you want to add some more color to this conversation and why you brought this forward yeah certainly U this is something and then commissioner Le I'll recognize you thereafter okay sir there this is something that's uh been looked at and discussed for for for a while so it's definitely been thought of uh uh substantially from the standpoint of the current um tenant if you will and their ability a were with all uh to to have this property in a condition that that it's supposed to be in so the history the history of this obviously in the city standpoint conversations uh predates everybody on this on this day is uh um but based on what I've been informed is that a very adversarial conversation about uh redoing the lease and concerns about you know grow Scouts being kicked out and all that narrative uh led to a lot of tension of which you know we've tried to bring that back to a sense of hey we we want to have something that's a win-win for for for both sides so there there was a conversation as the mayor mentioned U with uh chairperson and the executive director um our Parks director has spoken to them I've spoken to the executive director as well and uh the reality is that to to bring that into compliance from an invasive standpoint a would maybe trigger a code enforcement process that I don't know that you know we want to go down that road necessarily um number two there's an issue of wherewith all right there I just on that point so we're clear you talk about a could enforcement process we're the regulator in that case correct so it's really do we want to exercise that discretion and and and and force the issue right okay correct and and then from the aspect of their ability to uh is is a conversation that we've had and where they say you know they just don't have the ability to bring that that property as it relates to the invasives right and before we touch or maybe use a chainsaw approach as commissioner lean discussed um there's some things that that would have to be protected and those have to be identified to ensure that that um we are staying within the you know the rails of what should be touched and what's invasive there may be some some hammock uh uh vegetation there that needs to be protected so you know the least conversation we've had a very broad conversation and there's an openness and willingness to come back and have a conversation about what that property uh could look like from the standpoint of a use or joint use um but even with that being the case uh their ability to clean that property up is beyond their means and so the effort of bringing this forward finally because we've been discussing for a while was a two-fold one um a regardless of how this gets done we're going to need this information and a proper survey of the property and identification of what uh can get touched second it would be the vehicle to pursue dollars from a grant standpoint or NE Mark uh or potentially any programs uh that are um slated for whatever we end up finding there could be some Pine Rock L right there's some things that look like but we don't know yet so obviously we wouldn't move forward with doing the actual work this was to to do the the assessment of current conditions to to be able to determine what is needed um the conversation about the lease would would certainly continue and really get into the details of the lease but even with that conversation I just don't have any hope that they have the ability to come forward uh and and clean that up because it's it it's beyond their capability so it's sort of a little of a dilemma of yes it is their burden and and we recognize I would say it may be their burden we we're inferring it's their burden yeah correct at least from from this standpoint is our may I ask you just on that point again is there is there with respect to the structure that's there is the obligation Express or is it in the same kind of nebulous posture yeah they have an Express obligation to maintain the structure the structure and and do we do Mr Man do we have a condition on a sense of the condition of the structure itself not not formally I mean I know that they they do some uh maintenance of it um when I spoke to the executive director she mentioned it but you know things that are more Cosmetic in nature um so the goal was to have a facility that could be joint use so more access to City residents that they would still be using the facility um and and certainly part of that would be to clean up the property from the invasives and just restore that to allow the natives to to be able to flourish uh from that standpoint so you know It's Tricky you know it there's there's a expectation from us that they would have to do it but there the inability to to do it and you know obviously if the desire is to hold off because we have other priorities that may be the case I mean it's just going to grow more and become more expensive so that was the thought process behind bringing something uh forward that that we can begin this process with the idea and and our congresswoman had a earmark for another gross cop property down South for a similar project and certainly that would be on our radar screen to maybe uh put this uh before her as well to try to find some funds for it so um it's it's trying to deal with something that's been around for quite a while that uh that I think ultimately would would the players to be have an interest of having a joint use of this facility in a greater way for our residents uh from the complaint-based standpoint yeah I've heard a couple people mention about the condition of the fence and the overgrown but I I don't you know we don't Al necessarily wait for somebody to complain about something if we think it needs attention so that's what drove bringing this forward instead of waiting for for a complaint-based approach commission Le been you had a followup comment yes thank you mayor you asked if we discussed it um again earlier we had a capital Improvement budget meeting there was a believe 250,000 a quar million earmarked I did bring it up I did motion that we uh move that money into into placemaking which I believe is a a greater priority is exponentially more dividends and then the other thing I was um I was going to say is I wouldn't put any money into it unless we have a commitment from them first so I I I I think I think I my my thoughts are this on this item I think the assessment is helpful information I honestly think it would be helpful we get an assessment of the building as well because frankly you know it's not included who knows what we're what it's not included it's not that's what I'm saying it's not included but I think if we're going to have a conversation about the posture of the lease we might as well know what condition the the building is in as well right so so we can find out whether this is a a dollar year Arrangement and how much use rights they should get or you know based on what we're going to have to B invest to kind of bring the property up to whatever a C- compliance State might be so I I mean I I i' I'd like to move the item forward but modified with yes yes ma'am go ahead when was this lease signed do you do you know Le is now over 50 years old I would think no 1954 yeah and expires when Mr C attorney 2053 so again the the the truth of the matter is we can we can do what we people done here forever which is we I think if we threaten people which has been no no no no no I'm saying that but what's happened before is it's become a conversation about threatening the Girl Scouts it with some sort of action uh some legal action I I mean I don't see the wisdom in that I think that that that didn't that didn't generate any fruit right for years I think the question is let's go come from a place of of full information right I think Fuller information would be to have an assessment of the structure done as well to see where it is and then to doubt with them and before we spend any money say look you know here's what we're going to spend we want to have a substantial conversation about reformatting the lease and going forward and maybe we ask a manator to bring back both items uh the lease and an an expanded scope of this analysis not just what it's going to cost us to um a deal with the the the Flora part but or whatever the term is I don't know um yeah deal with the N the wildlife there the whatever and invasives exactly nativ and invasives and then also have an understanding of what the structure would cost us to bring into compliance yes you may I didn't sorry thank you I I don't disagree with you and I actually agree that threatening the Girl Scouts is like kicking a puppy it's ridiculous but I I think that before we commit to investing that type of money we need to have an agreement with them we can't go to them saying we've done this now we want to be able to make an agreement with you say we're willing to look at how we make this better where what can we do together because it's clear they can't afford to fix the building and they can't afford to fix the canopy or tree situation and they may have no obligation to and whether they do or not yeah they can't probably probably no it's they can't do it anyway so it's but I think it needs to be there's a saying in Spanish that says One hand washes the other one with both we wash our face I that needs to be the approach versus going with hat in hand saying I'm investing this much money what are you willing to do for me it it that that Dynamic needs to be completely flipped around thoughts commissioner Le I think I'm assuming you agree with that your comments okay CH Kaa thoughts yeah I look it's this is a a little bit of a complicated situation right so it's really it's really two different options either you know we we tell them look this this is what and what it sounded like you were saying Mary is that you might want to defer it with the possibility of showing them what we want to go do the plan and coming to sit down at the table now there's two different ways of negotiating this particular deal right either at the very least I want I want to I know you said you want to make the investment I got no no no what I'm what I'm trying to say is I think if we're we're going to do this we shouldn't just do an assessment of the of the of the the natural portion we should actually do an assessment of the building as well so we can sit so we can sit down we we could we could if we're going to if we're going to spend the money let's spend it on both parts so we know exactly what the cost of the entire project is Right restoring the building and restoring the uh the Natural Area and then have a conversation about reforming the lease because I think I think obviously what I'm what I'm going to guess the posture of this board is going to be based on our prior conversations is if it's going to cost us let's just pick a number out of The Ether right 500,000 to restore the building and the property right we may want to give them more or less use rights depending on how much they're going to contribute to that effort right so I'm assuming right now it's going to be on the Lighter Side my understanding of their current US is about 18 hours a week is what they're is what they're using the building right uh they use it eight hours on Saturdays and a few hours to 10 hours total it looks like during the weekday um you know so there is plenty of opportunity for us to have a conversation about getting more use out of this facility for the community right uh but I would imagine that how much priority we give them is also going to be a function of how much we have to invest to kind of get this to a point where the condition is acceptable to everyone so unless I'm speaking in a direction that you all disagree with I mean that's how I see this playing out so what you're the mayor I'm sorry so it sounds like you want to defer it and tell them to add that particular scope yeah scope now I I don't disagree with that now what I would tell you though is this scope going through Kimberly horn is astronomically more expensive so that's the other thing I don't like about this particular proposal is that the fees that that that's being charged for a survey is astronomical so you know because that's not their bread and butter so I just want to make sure that we understand that and if we are going to run it by and do maybe another thing maybe we just open it up to an RFP and and get something a little I think I'm Mr man just to confirm the way we ended up with this with this we just picked our next CCNA a wheel provider yeah yeah we went through a rotation and the staff discussed a scope and based on that scope they they priced okay is there is is there a way to have conversations with any of the other pre pre pre-screen providers if figure out if we can actually reduce the amount of I mean if we if we are uh if the item is is going to be deferred and come back with some other elements I mean we can spend some time uh identifying possibly some some Alternatives and then taking a look at that okay so I think because I think what I'm hearing I I haven't I really didn't look at the at the V proposal that closely frankly but what I'm hearing from my colleagues that that they're concerned about the cost of just this phase of the work my my preference would be to add on also an analysis of what it's going to cost us to restore the building because we might as well have full information when we have the conversation with uh the current users about what the future looks like yes ma'am go first oh commissioner lein sorry you recognized sir it's okay he says okay um I think if that's an approach that we want to look at we should have a price for the canopy section and a price for the building because if not I think we're going to run into exactly what commissioner Kai is talking about it becomes one big thing and we might not be able to do one big thing we might have to do this in two sections three sections whatever if we decide to move forward with it I agree with your analogy I just think the first thing we have to do is have the conversation with the Girl Scouts well to piggyback that sorry through the mayor yes please if we can go ahead and and maybe we can set up a meeting uh maybe a sunshine or just have a conversation with them uh city manager maybe we can instruct staff to help us out and do that I mean I I've never spoken to them I don't know vice mayor has and then the last time you spoke mayor I remember correctly it was a long time ago yes it's been a long time since I spoke it's been over a year so yeah so let's let's you know city manager maybe we can set up a meeting while we do this new uh proposal maybe a added added scope figure out if we can get a better number at the same time that set up a meeting and I think maybe maybe maybe the way to start that conversation is ask them what their minimum use needs would be right and see where they see where they start from wanting to have control over the facility right they already there right I I I would I would probably maybe turn it around a little bit which would be you know what are those elements uh uh that that would be in a lease that then we would then consider this kind of investment because at the end of the day the issue is lack of funds to execute and and you know I I don't have a lot of hope that we're going to you know as we revise the lease we may have more joint use necessarily I don't know that we're going to get uh an investment on their side no this I think we all agree I think our expectation is that we're not going to see any investment from them just to be again not to be disparaging but very little investment correct uh and so the question is what are their use requirements I know that over the summer obviously they run a summer camp out of there so the use requirements are higher but certainly during the Academic Year it's to my understanding I think it was 18 hours is what I had seen in some correspondents before um if we can get them to crystallize what they would love in an Ideal World from their perspective to start the conversation bring that back and if that seems like a reasonable starting point from them maybe we have a term sheet we approve or maybe there's a form revised lease we talk about and we bring back that with the two expenditure items I think we might get to a point where folks on this Council are comfortable saying yes to spending the dollars yeah and I so my point was that I would probably invest our time in that instead of the actual proposal because based on the conversation you may say well leave it alone right or uh if the if the threshold is you know we need x amount of money participation and we don't aieve that so um I I certainly my my if if in a world where they're not willing to reconsider the lease I would rather spend money on the perimeter yeah uh solving you know the the visual impact that it has on the Neighbors on the North and the South side of that park because I think that's where you know dealing with the the parking lot nonp parking lot essentially uh on the west side of the property on 62nd Avenue um that's kind of a free-for all in terms of people use it in support of Palmer I'd rather spend our dollars on those elements that that street that streets the the streetscape around the park and that parking area to make sure that we you know at least enhance the the general condition for for the immediate neighbors I don't know what your thoughts are no I mean my thoughts were still to to defer the proposal as is I really do think no I know but in a world where they say we we want to we want to keep living in the same universe and not reform the lease I'd rather spend the money in those ways than necessarily the and fairness they have globally yeah have have expressed that they have an interest right devils in the details they have to me yeah yeah they have expressed that globally so yeah okay all right so let's uh is there a motion to defer this item I'll move the motion to defer okay is there a second is there a date when we want to have the manager try to bring this back for us to revisit it or not should we suggest 30 days maybe so so we have enough time to go speak to them is that okay commission do we want to do 30 do you think that this will itself out in 30 I would I would say I think it should come back um with some direction for the next budget so we can decide whether it's going to going to keep the 250 in the CIP or maybe adopt commissioner Le's recommendation of rolling those dollars into another category so 30 days looks seems fine probably probably the first when's our first turn meeting for for uh July for July yeah July is July second no but when are we going to have our our have we have we picked the date when we're going to uh set our our our mill rate Mill yes I don't July 16 okay so why don't we bring it back July 16th that gives you 45 days or so and before that I I would sort of share the conversation yeah so so you I if we're going to invest time in you know uh redoing this particular scope and or additional Scopes that it's that we know that we're kind of in the same wavelength as to desire to move forward so we'll keep you up to date at so let's defer to July 16th is that acceptable to the Mover okay the seconder okay mam clerk if you can call the RO on the deferral yes commissioner Leeman no commissioner Kay yes Vice May bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes IEM passes 41 to defer I 3 one to defer okay you read item five in the record please yes item five a res of the mar City Commission of the city of South Miami approving the the form of arst agreement for donated artwork for Colombian SC Sculpture Garden at Dan fael Park thank you uh so colleagues I had commissioner Leeman's moving it yes so is there a second I'll second okay um I I just by by way of quick introduction I just wanted to make sure that we commission Le and I had a meaning about the park and uh I you know again applaud him for all the work he's done in in getting this artwork donated to us one of the things that concerned me was that we just have not really formalized our relationship with the artist that provided the donation so hopefully this agreement provides a framework it also gives us uh rights with respect to the copyright and our use of it uh you know as I expressed to commissioner Le I think there may be an opportunity to use the images in some of the marketing and promotional uh marketing and promotional benefit of the city and so this would clarify our relationship on that front with each of the artists and their rights Visa um the donated artwork uh the one the one thing I want to just confirm is that this would apply to the the this would be the form contract for any future donation but to the extent that we have not received it would those donations would come back to this board for acceptance that would be my preference I don't know if this resolution Capt captures that idea so we have we have um I don't know X number of sculptures that that are already installed and I think there's one or two others that have already been donated and so just on the going forward basis my my preference would be that we when there is a offer to donate something that the the agreement is brought forward to this commission for action for acceptance of the gift right with the agreement and also that we are approving the sighting of the sculpture so yeah so mayor this item is specifically for the seven sculptures that have been donated okay that are already in dant fael Park okay if you want to extend it we can extend it to all sculptures you know and just have just have you know this version for the ones that are that are already in in the Columbia sculpture garden and then future art work with that Proviso that okay I I believe commissioner Le k for do we not have one at least that we are have in our possession that is in storage in public works so we we have two in storage in public works uh one is Rolos Sanchez who made a presentation um before before the commission remember that's the Miami color the the Dolphins color it's an aqua and then we have a uh Ricardo Cardis which is uh aluminum C Mander spent some time getting to know uh uh Ricardo or gentleman that that works with Ricardo to help U we finish that sculpture but those two already donated so there there's more than than seven there's actually 12 10 installed two to install so um made based on the conversation I had with the city attorney once these things are signed they're formally accepted they don't have to come back before the commission I if I understand you correctly any additional donation that's correct I'm referring to Future donations that's correct sir if you want to make that Amendment i' I'd second it and then I'll just say it again we got five months left if if um we'll discuss the board board at another time maybe in a sunshine meeting you want to add that to one I lot of you know the the Genesis of that it would after on the commission if you want me stay involved in the sister city program I will but otherwise I don't necessarily see right additional donations coming forward after the next five mons understood so I think um again I again the City attorney the two that are in storage were you contemplating using that this form for those two for those two sculpures I see commissioner lman shaking us said I just want to make sure that was in New Or Vine's eye as well it is yes it is now okay great and so oh sorry I didn't answer your question mayor I'm interrupting sorry the yellow edret the son which yeah you helped with your father-in-law is familiar with that one is on loan every other one we own okay fair enough okay so so for one it'll be a loan agreement for the others it'll be a well there's a transfer okay got it and if I can just on the two that we have accepted but have not B um I'm fine with the agreement being executed I would like commissioner Le again I know we've talked Loosely about it but just if we can bring those two back so we can just discuss where they're going to be sided in the park publicly because I don't don't think we've had that conversation yet I know we had a presentation from from one of the sculptors uh again just so that everything's kind of done you know openly let's have that conversation I think on a going forward basis I'd like the agreement and the plan for where they're going to be cited for any future donations hopefully you'll get a few more for us to come forward and kind of be uh adopted that way formally okay yes ma'am thank you somewhere in here whether we want to put it in the city's intellectual property rights or in the artist rights I'll leave it to you to figure out where it's best suited the city should not be able to reproduce for sale anything that has to do with this artwork even if it does belong to us that intellectual property belongs to the artist we can't can't reproduce and sell posters of the artwork uh little sculptures of the artwork that that is a nogo and it is not here I I knew there was I kept telling chip there's something here that isn't right and that is what it is but let me ask let me ask a question because um again I'm not sure that we're going to get we're not we're going to commercialize this as an opportunity but um you know for example we could use the images as a gift for a protocol perspective you cannot do that we we I don't I had specifically asked that the agreement be drafted to allow us to make use of the you know copyright or or the IP without Li without limitation for that reason right because I thought it becomes part it could Beal for promotional not for not not commercial promotion again not commercial promotion now to the extent that we want to do that to pay for the maintenance of these things on a going forward basis I don't know you know what the what the preference of the board but I certainly want at least have the ability to if rather than have a key to the city if we wanted to give someone a small statue of one of the sculptures you guys we could do that as a gift uh no no yes Comm leave that that is not something that you do you would go to the artist and ask them to make reproduction that we could purchase but in the art world I've I've in in all of the years that I was in contract work in the art industry not once was it oh we can make 50,000 reproductions of this and not pay the artist a fee whatever that may be that we agree with them whether it's one penny or $1 million doll we we can't just reproduce someone's work without paying them for it it's like saying you did a contract for me so I'm going to copy it 15 times with whatever I do and and you know forget it people do it all the time but but it's it's not right and we should be holding ourselves to a higher I I I guess the question commissioner Le go ahead commissioner Le yeah he's trying to so first I'm going to play mediator we can have a box and they can check it so the first thing little context donations are from three sorts more than three but three they fall into three categories a gallery right they own the piece they're not the artists they don't own the electrial property collector falls into the same category and make a count think about the top of my head but a number of them word donated from artists one thing I'll say and I absolutely appreciate uh Vice mayor's support and her her background her experience in in this industry you don't know I don't know anything about art but I do know that nothing changes places and spaces like art and that was my goal when when I received donations from from collectors Gall but especially artists I say how many sculptures have you donated they'd say never I've seen public displays oh well those were sponsor I didn't donate it a company donated it so this was very very special that's where they donate the Columbia sculpture garden you know as passionate as I am about the culture it's not a philanthropic culture so this was a very heartfelt donation so I I think to that point I think they'd be happy if it promoted the city and the in Columbia sculpture garden I think they'd be happy to be a part of it but for free yeah they they I you you guys need that's what the the point of the agreement is that specifically because I m I had the same concern when we started talking about this one of my concern is if we want to reproduce right a sculpture to just giveway a protocol item right the clerk wants to order you know you know 200 little peace signs right that you give to someone who comes for a visit or as an acknowledgement or an award right could we do it was my question right could we do something like that and you know the reason I want wanted to other than you know commiss lean's been very concerned about wanting to make sure that he kind of vests the legacy of the sculpture garden this kind of helps do does accomplish that as well but I also wanted to solidify what our rights were with respect to the IP now we may find that you know first of all it's a if it's a gallery right they're not going to be able to uh you know grant us those rights because they don't possess them it sounds like but if it is the artist the artist will have the choice of allowing us to do it for commercial or non-commercial reasons we can do it I mean we can limit it I at least wanted the opportunity from a non-commercial perspective since it's now attached to the city hopefully becomes part of our brand we could use it in ways that would promote the city and the garden that was my thought yes sir so mayor an another compromise to satisfy both your concerns we can put in the agreement donated not reso not donated sorry gifted we would use it for promotional reasons not to sell so so we have it yeah yeah if I may 433 says it's it's for it's for advertisement publicity exhibition publication or other promotional activities it's specific to to those types we could make that clear and say non-commercial if that's and that's a concern if you look at it's photographic filmed or videotaped reproductions in other words this is a paper copy of a sculpture I take a photograph of the sculpture you then put it on a poster and give it to someone yes or or a picture on a on on an item let's say I don't know a coffee mode you know something something along those lines that would include that you guys you guys need to do a a little more research in this and then if that is what you are expecting you need to get each artist to sign off on this that was the goal here fully understanding what you're saying because remember even though they give you this sculpture the actual visual belongs to them they can turn around and put it on a coffee mug and do this and that and the other and sell it but we I don't think we're I don't think we're I don't think I don't think it has to be maybe it's a license you know that's that it's it's is it a license for here yeah this is a license it's a license so they retain it we just have a license to use it for these purposes I I so you guys better be really really clear in whatever you have an artist sign because if not we are opening the door to well that is that is exactly what I was concerned about which is if we did it unknowingly and we didn't you know specify what our rights were right we could find ourselves in Jeopardy of violating their their IP rights so and I'm sorry but this doesn't do that it just doesn't this agreement doesn't this agreement does not do that okay okay I will I'm I'm going to look for something that maybe will help me give you better input okay because this doesn't do that okay so let's take that input let's go ahead and defer the item then I'm happy to I mean that that's the goal man of vice mayor so you you are on the same page that way wait Josh is doing something I just have some urgency to get these well we'll bring it back to the next meeting commissioner Le the goal here is to we approve it conditionally that the City attorney just changes that language because we're fine with everything else the intent we just want to clarify okay so you want to delegate The Authority for the to the okay just so I understand so we're going to prove it uh subject to um we can delegate the authority of the city to to to revise what section specifically it's 4 4.3 okay it what's the direct what's the delegated direction we're giving him well I I would say that we just need to hone in a little better on what we are allowed to do and I I would think it would be in 433 through the mayor could use reproductions of the art for promotional purposes not for resale I think I I honestly you know um my my my my recommendation let's just defer the item for a meeting and bring it back on the on the 17th so we can just you know take it up in a final posture and hopefully there's no more discussion on it commiss Le okay okay I'd like I'd like to move the deferral to uh June 17th June 18th June 18th excuse me oh sorry okay okay um commissioner Leeman yes commissioner K yes VI B can I can I stop for one second and ask you something you may if if I'm able to figure it out while we're still talking we can move to reconsider thank yes okay you want yes want to say something else yes okay may Fernandez sorry Point sorry yes sir what sorry Point why don't we just ask the city attorney like we do with every other item for new language we could approve it on the spot he's the commissioner commissioner sorry vice mayor bich is doing that at the moment so what she's asked is if we could move to reconsider at this meeting should he find an answer between now and then so okay uh the item passes 4 Zer okay so it's now deferred to June 18th yes okay can read uh item six please item six a of the mar City Commission of the city of South for approving approaches from Zoom Video Communications and of a new cloud-based phone system for a 5-year term authorizing city manager to negotiate and enter into an agreement for the phone system thank you madam clerk this is a public hearing item any member of the public who' like to come forward and speak uh on item six please do so at this time is there anyone in the audience who' like to come forward and anyone on Zoom please raise your virtual hand seeing no one uh in the chambers and no one online we will close the public hearing uh is there a motion on item six I'll move the motion okay there a second I'll second it have a motion and a second are there any questions or comments colleagues not seeing none if you can call the role please yes commissioner Leeman yes commissioner C yes Vice bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes I passes 4 can you read item seven please item seven a resolution of the mayor City Commission of the city of South Marine Florida authorizing the city manager to negotiate an enter into a multi-year agreement with confe quit Technologies LLC for the purchase of for night firewall Appliance utilizing the terms and conditions of the national corporator purchasing Alliance ncpa Omni Partners contract puru to request for proposal number 40-22 for a three-year term thank you this is uh a public hearing item if there's any the public in the audience who' like to come forward and speak on item seven please do so at this time anyone on Zoom raise your virtual hand no seeing no one of the chambers and no one online we will close the public hearing is there a motion on item seven move the item is there a second second so we have a motion by commissioner lean and a second by commissioner Cay any comments colleagues seeing none uh Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner Leeman yes commissioner K yes Vice bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 4 Z great if you can read item eight please item eight a res of the mayor City Commission of the city of South FL approving the renewal and purchase from xon Enterprise sync of body warn camera electronic control devices software video storage and accelery equipment for the police department and amount not to receive 78466 one. 72 for a 5-year term authorizing a city manager to negotiate and entered agreement for the body War camera system this is a public hearing item as well if there's any of the public who'd like to speak on this item regarding the acquisition of body warn cameras from Maxon Enterprises please come forward at this time and anyone Z please raise your virtual hand seeing no one in the chambers and no one on Zoom we will close the public hearing is there a motion on item 8 please I'll move the motion I will second the motion um commissioner lean you have a question so the hand go up nope you're just gonna move it you're on you're on mute sir NOP I got you we're on the same page we have a motion by commissioner Kay a second by the mayor uh Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner lemman yes commissioner k want to vote Vice May Bon Madam vice mayor yes mayor Fernandez yes item faet 4 Z thank you if you can read item nine please item nine a resolution of the mayor City Commission of the city of sophomore reporter authorizing the city manager to negotiate enter into a multi-year agreement with Park loyalty for parking enforcement citation software thank you clerk uh this is a public hearing item as well any member of the public who'd like to come forward and speak on item 9 regarding the acquisition of better parking enforcement technology for our uh Finance director please come forward at this time and anyone on Zoom please raise your virtual hand seeing no one in the chamers and no one online we will close the public hearing uh colleagues is there a motion I in mind I'll move the motion move the I'll second it we have a motion by commissioner lean a second by commissioner Cay uh any comments seeing none uh M clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner lemman yes commissioner Cay yes Vice B yes mayor Fernandez uh yes go with God Mr riveral I don't passes for if you can read item 10 please yes item 10 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of sop for granting approval of or denying a request release a Unity of title pursu to section 20- 5.16 of the Land Development code for the property located at 6167 Southwest 64 street thank you uh this is a public hearing item as well um regarding the release of unity of title is there any member of the public who like to come forward and speak please sir your name and address for the record pardon me mayor should I read the uh oh you is a qual statement yes give us one second if you may thank you item uh P10 on this evening City commission uh meeting agenda seeks approval of a development uh I'm sorry of a u application to release a unit of title under Section 20- 516 of the city's Land Development code the resolution seeks um approval of the release requiring a public hearing the city will frame tonight's discussion within the city's quadal procedures with respect to presentations by staff the applicant public comment commission may ask any questions either before or after public comment is closed following public comment BL you the commission may deliberate on the resolution the Quasi judicial procedures require this commission to consider the evidence presented to and based decision on the applicable law and primarily on the evidence presented whether by the applicant staff or members of the public the staff report and the resolution provide the applicable law and criteria for approval in this case section 20- 5.16 of the Land Development code which requires a finding that the uh the the conditions uh which required the unit title in the first place have ceased uh the evidence considered must be substantial competent evidence this means testimony or their evidence based on personal observation or relevant expert testimony that reasonable Minds would accept this adequate support conclusion it is not a popularity contest it cannot be based solely on non-expert op opinions no matter how fervent those opinions might be um whoever seeks to speak on this item will be given an opportunity to speak uh during the public comment portion if you intend to provide testimonies to this item uh you will be sworn in please know if you speak you may be subject to cross-examination if you refuse either to be cross-examined or to be sworn your testimony will be considered in that context and given its due we general public is not permitted to cross-examine Witnesses but the public May request the commission to direct questions on their behalf to either staff or the applicant um if you will be speaking uh please raise please stand and raise your right hand can you stand please thank you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you uh Madame clerk can you confirm compliance with the advertising and notice requirements for the hearing yes thank you and uh mayor vice mayor Commissioners uh have any of you had any discussions with any members of the public on this application including the applicant no no no my only question but to staff okay n thank you mayor uh colleagues do we want a presentation from staff or do we have any questions we want to direct to them I don't have any question no questions Madame vice mayor any questions commissioner Lan um Marcus before you go just one question for me I'm sorry I have course do we have anything in the record with the application that indicates what the applicant intends to build I I can ask the same question to the applicant if this time there's been no no type of planed to the city for what he plans to build I just know that he's permitted to do a two home on the site there there are exceptions in the code to allow for construction on on lots of this size currently there are three three sites similar inside that have already been built on Southwest 60th Avenue one is under construction and that same street and one and at fourth one went to Erp uh drv this morning for for review and approval other than that no there's nothing's been submitted okay through the mayor yes sir was the applicant the same owner of those other properties no okay this property is actually on 6 64th 64th Street it it fronts 64th Street and 63rd terce it's down the street from this one but there are several of these type Lots in that same vicinity okay sir sorry to keep you here I didn't realize you were the applicant I would have called you sooner please come forward good evening your name and address for the record if you can I'm sorry your name and address for the record please um Jose M the address is 6167 Southwest 64 Street okay thank you sir um what what just for my own edification what is your intent intended development plan for the for the Lots now uh the idea is to build two houses uh two uh two story houses uh 1140 square feet each two story um that's that's the idea okay colleagues any questions yeah have you have you thank you mayor have you seen the other houses in that particular neighborhood that is it something that you want to build something very similar different different uh uh designs similar to the four houses being built on six 60th Terrace okay uh same size lot it's a little shorter mine is 80 by 25 the other one I think is 90 by 25 okay yeah how how big are those other homes do we know I know reference to the staff report I'm sorry what there are some other homes that were that were referenced in the staff report maybe staff can answer that question thank you sir yeah yeah thank you Mr May those houses are about 1500 sare feet give or take okay they're very Like chotgun Houses okay thank you okay colleagues any questions comments no is there is there a motion on the item yes commissioner lean you have a question yeah I'll say it again I not an easy process but by Champion legislation to grandf for these lot I'm very familiar with it but my question for the city think got four they were they were already 2,000 fet but to me the average lot size in the city is is 10,000 which we well under it's just that they're already ploted 4,000 square foot lot it's just the lot um is uh just think much more practical in terms of the product in the city and that in that neighborhood though there are some other 2,000 an exception 2,000 foot Lots so I just have a question for the City attorney do we are we legally obligated to vote for this I have the same question so thank you for that question so the criteria is has has the uh have the conditions that require the unit title in the first place ceased and what you've heard from Mr milato and from from the staff report is that there the reason the unit title was required in the first place was because there was a a a proposal to build a house or across the lot lines that has been abandoned uh the the applicant will be building two homes um on each lot our code uh allows for for that uh situation specifically ordinance number 28-20 2382 which is part of your packets um which allows for 2,000 foot homes uh I'm sorry 2,000 foot Lots when they have been platted as such this has been platted that way so you know I unless there's a a a an overriding public policy reason may ask a question on that point did did that ordance exist when the unity was proferred yes so so at the time at the time the unity was imposed or accepted by the city the ordinance allowing for the exceptions that now make the development of the 2000 foot Lots possible yes was in effect was in effect so then what what conditions have changed the other than the representation that now their preferences other than the proposal no conditions but the unit of title was not required for any other reason other than building across the lot line okay yes commiss leben sorry and then this is just my opinion maybe it doesn't offer any context in terms of the vote but for such a small lot you would absolutely want the unity of title we reduce the setbacks from 8 to 5 feet that's still an extra 10 feet um with the UN title building one home instead of two which is significant when you consider how small these homes are you just heard the applicant say they were 11 if I understood them correctly 1,140 Square fet so I I I'd like to do the foll I'm going to move to defer this item with all respect to the applicant what I'd like to do if we can is if you could bring back at least some sort of a sketch as to what the intentions are with respect to the design uh so that we can get a sense of what is going to be executed on it um you know as a condition I I I if if there's frankly I'm uncomfortable releasing it I probably hearing it sounds like me and commissioner Le are likely to be knows on this and rather have the item fail on a two two vote I just rather defer it and and let it come back with the full board okay I i' I'd like to look at this some other than right now thank you yes you can ask a question um oh it's not to you to him um is is there a reason in your minds I I'm not versed enough on this in particular to have a very formed opinion of my own but I don't understand if it was two he bought two lots he put them together now he wants to take them apart again I don't understand why we as a city would say no if it's there his that's what he bought he changed it he changed his mind he wants it back so other than something as simple as that what why would we say no can I can I add to that mayor I mean we have an Erp process or I forgot the new terminology for it I apologize but we have that process where to review the scale of the property and it has to go through that process quazi judicial to make sure it goes through so I mean we have a process for that what the intent here is to either let the two lots which I agree with vice mayor I just don't know no but you're correct I mean that's that's his choice right I mean there's already presidents in the neighborhood I don't understand why we would prevent that from him so if we're if we're looking at aesthetically aesthetically that that there there's a process that it needs to go through anyway I would wait for that process I well look I think one difference is that the homes are 400 feet smaller than the the the comparable homes that we're siding so this one's what 15 it's 1100 is what was represented the others are 1500 so they're substantially smaller units I don't know that it's in the best long-term interest of the neighborhood to allow development on 2,000 foot lots of this size that's my personal opinion I could be wrong I would say to you also that um the reason I asked the question about whether the rules were in place at the time the was imposed was because he had the option traveling under the exceptions at the time or imposing the unity he asked us to accept the unity of title they made that determination the previous own I think it's the same owner it's the same owner so it's not it's not it's not it's not a new owner it's the same owner of record so they they had they had they had the options of pursuing one strategy or the other um I I don't see that there's any any change in conditions in the neighborhood and the condition of the lot and the rules governing the development those are the reasons I would tell you for give you for basis for denial um again we don't have a third me we don't have a fifth member of the board here today I don't want to Prejudice the application by denying it right I would rather just say let's defer it let's come back maybe commissioner Corey has a difference of opinion on this matter and he can get his approval I I I I you know I don't want to make a decision on the Fly about the setbacks and what the Aesthetics of the lot would look like I am concerned about whether it's going to result in an improvement that's really not conforming with the rest of the character of the neighborhood so that's that's my big that's my big concern through the mayor I think what the mayor's the applicant is it's fair what he's trying to do he wants to give the benefit of the doubt so I think it's better that we defer so I'll second that motion is that to a date certain yeah let's let's move it to the next meeting so it's not June 18th yes so we have a motion to move uh is there there's a second by commissioner k a motion by myself Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes um commissioner K yes commissioner lemman I don't think he heard you leave oh yes yes vice mayor bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 4 Z to we will see it back on the 18th thank you uh yes let's take item 12 please if you can read the record actually can I keep that just so I can look it before the next meeting yeah item 12 item 12 12 in ordinance on the mayor City Commission of the city of Soph Florida amending section 20-410 garage sale of the city Land Development code to modify garage sale permit application procedures thank you is there uh is there are there any questions regarding sorry this is a public hearing item no I think we've already Lage disclosure so this is a public hearing item does there any member the public could like to speak on item 12 uh which modifies the process for the approval of a garage sale permit seeing No One in the Chamber is there anyone online Madam clerk seeing no one online uh is there a motion on item 12 I move the item I'll second okay have a motion by commissioner leben a second by V vice mayor bonich Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes um commissioner Leman yes commissioner Cay yes Vice bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 4 Z thank you uh can you read item 13 please item ordinance on the mayor City Commission of the city of South lorida amending article 3 zoning regulations Section 20- 3.6 supplemental regulations of the Land Development code relating to boat storage and single family Residential Properties thank you are there any questions regarding item 13 yes um I had mentioned during the last meeting that did we want to discuss the possibility of maybe having landscaping or something that would obscure this View a little bit but we didn't really get anywhere is there any interest for that or are we just letting it go the way it is I'm I'm I'm open on the item I'm not sure if you did you have a chance to speak to the City attorney about it no we only spoke about it here when we were all here together I'm sorry yeah so I I I'm impartial I just don't know if there's any openness or want to talk about it or which one on the boat storage I I couldn't find house are you think of obscuring the the visual from the street or at least from a side like these they're on the they're on the edge of their property so they already have to have a hedge or something one would hope and so the ordinance requires today yes commiss I just want to clarify this point if the City attorney can the ordinance that we adopted previously required in the front yard there to be a uh a hedge of a minimum size can you clarify what the standard is yeah on the side visually buffered by trees Andor shrubs maintain to a minimum height of six feet again that's along the side setback along the side correct along the side okay Comm leave want to add to that yes I also when we passed this item originally there is a sideb back so you can park it up against the lot line because that would it's got to be five feet from the side that's correct yeah yeah it would detract from the neighbors but but a hedge helps even more so we have we have we have a landscaping requirement we have a setback in the front yard that's 5 feet in the rear yard it can be up against the property in the side or in the behind the wall the foremost building faade it can be right on the setback correct okay right on the right on the property line okay is that address your concern okay okay so we have um questions answered is there a motion on item 13 I'll move the motion oh sorry it's a public hearing item my apologies my apologies uh is there any member of the public who' like to speak uh on item 13 which uh essentially grandfathers existing bone owners uh for the duration of their tenure in the home uh and keeping their boat in the front yard seeing no one in the audience is there anyone online Madam clerk no seeing no one online we will close the public hearing is there a motion on item 13 I move the item thank you Commissioners there a second I'll second have a motion by commissioner leben a second by commissioner Cay Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner lean yes commissioner Cay yes Vice bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 4 Z great thank you uh item 14 I um apologist I'm going to be the turn in the punch bowl tonight on this one um I I as you all know I had some comments the last time I got sick after our last meeting and really have not had a chance to look at these I read the ordinance today very quickly trying to figure out if I can resolve whatever concerns I have I if you would allow me a deferral to the 18th I would appreciate it I want to get this item passed but I want to make sure it's in a posture that I can support so with that I'd like to move item 14 uh i' like to defer it to 618 through the mayor yes sir I mean this is something you brought up anyway is there any need to discuss maybe for timing or anything like that that that's important here no not not no I know that there are some people who are interested and want to see it move forward uh but I I have you know unfortunately got laid up for the better part of a week and have not had a chance to review it and I want to make sure there are some some conditions I've discussed with third parties particularly as to how they were requiring the units to express themselves um you know uh that I don't think are exactly right in the language yet uh so that's my that's my desire if I could just look at it yes sir commission leben your recogn one comment I mean we know I've been Champion Town Homes a void in in date County I love the product but in terms of what we're discussing there it's more we're all fine with the density right yes okay yeah I'm hard yes on this we're just discussing the entrance from the setbacks entrance from the correct I mean to give you a preview of things to come I mean you probably have seen some of the buildings on ponts and sovia I think those are nice little buildings uh I don't know that this code will allow us to develop them because they only have one entrance in the street this requires you know two or three depending on whether you have an Adu or not so there's small modifications like that I'd like to make I apologize it's my fault I now have a chance to reach out to uh our consultant or City attorney on this item for the reasons I mentioned before so with that I'd just like to defer it to 618 and and work on a few tweaks I think would resolve comments I've discussed with uh staff and some members of the public as well it's your item here okay yes sir so I'd like to move it to 618 by way of a deferral is there a second second second okay second okay thank you uh so a motion by myself a second by commissioner Cay uh Madame clerk if you can call the RO on the defer please yes commissioner Leeman yes commissioner K yes Vice yes mayor Fernandez yes item Pass Support Zer to defer thank you okay we've got two items left uh since we have the vendor in the room and I apologize Robert and team can we read item 11 please yes item 11 a resolution of May City Commission of the city of sophomore for the selecting and awarding a contract to sophomore United FC in for operation and Management Services for the city of south miam youth and teen soccer program pursuing to request for proposal number PR 202 24-40 authorizing the city manager to negotiate and enter to contract for youth soccer and team program management services at southy Park for a multi-year term thank you this is a public hearing item if there's any other public member of the public who' like to come forward and speak on item 11 please do so at this time seeing no one in the chambers Madam clerk is there anyone online no okay um is there a motion on item 11 now that we've closed the public hearing is there a motion on item 11 commissioner Kaya Madam vice mayor is there a motion on item 11 oh I'm sorry I moov the motion a motion is there a second I'll second the motion is there any discussion regarding item 11 okay seeing no discussion Madam clerk okay commissioner leedman you're right sir so the first thing I want to say is I want to thank Robert South United great operator I only hear the best things about uh about the operator and the vendor so right all things being equal certainly we want to continue the contract but if I may I can quote some of you dayas um it's not personal or anyone box me in but say know Josh is combative these are things that are said that were said on the deis and this is democracy I think we would all want to be reminded of things we said and we would want to own those things but we all ran on transparency so one mayor you said twice on video the minimum contract you accept is the bare minimum this you didn't say bare minimum but you said minimum is $350,000 and a lot of this maybe the not the supporting votes for this but was predicated on that was also predic I mean we spent and now we're talking about the red doing the um the uh the parking lot and just to new vehicles $30,000 and we're already up to close to8 million so by the time we're done we're going to be much closer to 10 million and this contract didn't even come for half for the bare minimum you stated mayor the three people on the day talked about about the demand for soccer with the soccer team here and Messi and all the people moving to Miami and the affluence well we only had one bid additionally and I know they reduced the number by approximately 18% at a respect for the neighbors but um but when does a bid ever come in or for the original indication of Interest no one discloses their hand originally so to me I just don't understand how only one there was only one bid and that bid was the exact same amount as the original indication of interest and then I'd also like to quote commissioner Cay commissioner Kay you said that this was the single best investment now you've said that in a number of City objectives and may not be the best of grammar but singular is single and best is also singular and I don't understand how when we're Fu sheries the city's money how we're we spent we're spending up to $10 million or close to $10 million to generate an extra was how much was the contract before 75,000 can I ask can I ask a question CHR Le just to clarify the point how did you arrive with the $10 million because I'm I'm confused by that number we're already close to look at all the money we spent we're already close to milon we're proposing to spend we spent $750,000 on lights right we're proposing to spend $2.9 million on a field so that's 3.65 million my math isn't great so please correct me if I'm wrong and then what are we spending on the concession arrestment facility which I think is the other major expenditure for the for the park can someone give me that number I'm sorry I'm looking at our Capital Improvements budget here I just want to I just want to make sure that we're somebody 2.6 2.6 on the on the concession facility in the bathrooms okay so that would be 2.9 and 2.6 is 5 point uh million 750 for the lights so that's just under $6 million it's about half a million for the Pavilion okay it's included in what number okay so fine so we're at six let's just say we're at $6.3 million of The Pavilions at $500,000 that's 6 that's 60% $10 million is it not they 63% to be accurate on the day over s and a half million it's never been contested that doesn't include the parking lot and I think the contract now was for how much 75 or 80 the contract today is for 40 is $49,000 49,000 okay so it's additional 100,000 I just don't see how that's the single best investment it's certainly not a minimum of $350,000 and it's $100,000 let me let me address that let me address that comment since that's directed at me and let's be accurate so on 620 2023 and 95 2023 we discussed this item and I watched the videos cuz you know uh it would been mentioned to me that you had a concern about the minimum number that was represented the 350 that was mentioned would was the cost of The Debt Service payment if we were to borrow the entire amount of money in order to build the improvements it was never represented and you can I would invite you to go watch the record again like I did that we would get a minimum cons in uh concession payment of $350,000 certainly we had set the floor on 95 at 150 with a goal of hopefully getting more so we could close the gap between the cost of any borrowing for the improvements U as so it would be a by the concession I mean that's what's in the record I invite you to go look at it again uh did not make a representation of 350 did I hope that would be substantially higher than $150,000 absolutely did we get there no did I talk to six or seven vendors that had indicated interest in bidding yes did they bid no I can't explain why because I'm not allowed to talk to them maybe when this process is over I can do a postmortem and find out why people decided not to bid but right now we operate under aod of Silence so um those are the facts as I understand them I and again I respect that you have heartburn about spending this amount of money uh on a facility at this location but I am not in the camp of wanting to give back this property to the county which is something I know You' said before I think it's a facility that we operate that we own uh that we should invest in on the same level that we're investing in Dante fael Park where we are spending over $3 million on any building not withstanding the fact that the tennis Revenue will never pay for that building at that facility uh and certainly have not added into that number the cost of building the courts or the lights that were installed in the last 3 years or any number of other expenditures on behalf of that Park so I think you know we have to be consistent when we're talking about these these public parks that if we're going to object to expenditures in one location for on the basis of Revenue that we object to the expenditures uh on the basis of Revenue at other locations if that's going to be the if that's going to be our guide star commissioner Leeman then we shouldn't spend the $3 million to build a new building at Dante Fel Park that would be my position the argument is we're spending $6.3 million and that the $150,000 that we're getting the concession doesn't justify that investment that seems to be commissioner leap's position my point is that if you look at the cost of operating tennis and the revenue we get out of at at Dante fael Park and you look at the cost of building the new building there right which is over $3 million and you put that all into the soup the net $187,000 we get from tennis does not justify right the um the that that kind of investment so if we're going to if we're going to object on the basis of Revenue net revenue because this is net revenue it's not gross revenue right it's net revenue uh net revenue is $187,000 for tennis at Dante Vel Park terms of what we actually keep after we pay our employees and all the costs associated with it right if that's the if that's the basis of what we're going to underwrite or Investments or Justify Investments then neither that investment nor the investment South Miami Park make any Financial sense so I think it's if it's good for the goose it's got to be good for the gander would be my my position okay do you want to say something vice mayor he's he's not done no I know but you he's he's gone once would you like to say something yes you're recognized I just um I want to make mention that I don't know if any of you met with them but I met with some gentleman that came to talk about possibilities of paddle ball and pickle ball in our parks service and so when we're looking at something like this we have to be cognizant that there are those kinds of Alternatives available and do we want to look at that I don't know if we're able because of where we are I don't know if we're able to say okay do we want to add this here that they're I just feel I would be remiss if I didn't bring up that they had some really good ideas no I met with them as well and I agree I met with them as well yeah yeah and and a lot of um experience and I'm not saying that this gentleman doesn't have experience because I I think that would be wrong this gentleman obviously has experience he's been there for years but when we look at this is this what we continue to believe is the best use and you know in In fairness when I was speaking with our city manager he was like it would already is decidedly a soccer park it is already moving in that direction but I feel uncomfortable not bringing up to you guys that there are Alterna I don't know if it's a possibility at this point so I I'll just quickly address that point I think there are possibilities I don't know if it's possibilities on the area that we're dedicating to soccer but that Park still has some of the areas that maybe are underdeveloped that could be developed for paddle or pickle which I know um I was informed they' be talking to you and commissioner Cay about that opportunity I'm certainly open to those opportunities I think we should not only with with with soccer but in terms of that could bring much needed Revenue right that could help improve or further rationalize this investment for a lot of us um you know hopefully we'll have the opportunity to have some amount of flight football whether it's through a concession or recreationally I mean I don't really don't care but also at the park as well that's the fields are being set up for that as well so you know I think my goal certainly would be to try to layer on you know more uses that provide incremental incrementally more revenue and does does this provide that does our contract no I understand but I I don't I feel like from conversations with everyone that let's let's let's clarify that point Mr director would you mind just explaining what rights the concessionaire has under the agreement yeah because what's the scope of the of the space that he operates what are the hours that he has to operate under if you could just walk us through through those terms to the benefit of all of us in the public absolutely good evening so under this contract the um proposed um vendor will have access to the site um basically year round um from 5 a I'm sorry 5m to 900 P P.M Monday through Friday on Saturday it is from 9:00 a.m. to uh 2 p.m. or something like that 9 I'm sorry 9:00 am. to 600 p.m. and on Sundays is 9:00 am to um 2 o'clock so but Sundays is it is it the entirety of the field on Sundays or is it a portion of the fields on Sunday no it's it's split it's it's half or something like that okay so okay so half the fields they can make use of on Sundays correct so there's other opportunity between the hours of 3 and 5:00 p.m. U where the fields can be used on Saturdays afternoons or late evenings there's opportunities for that as well as on Sundays through the mayor yes sir and this is only for the soccer field correct correct there's nothing with this particular contract that does anything with the concession stands uh the uh what you call pavion houses Pavilions The Pavilions or the playground or anything like that right no this is only for soccer yeah the the idea with the con on the concession stand is that we will hire a vendor to service our Park system you know the Dante facel when we have the concession there Palmer Park when we have concession there and then South Miami Park do we expect more Revenue when we have those concessions yes okay thank M vice mayor when you factor in the size of the soccer fields is there even you can't really say the if you're going to talk about a different sport or what have you can't mention the P Pavilions or the playground and stuff because you can't play on those but we're talking about Revenue no no yeah but I'm talking about the possibilities of multi-uses for that space um is realistically is there space to do anything else yes yeah we can we we plan on having a flag football program that will probably operate two to three months um out of the year that will probably either be ran inhouse or we'll Outsource it to a concessionaire and that would be like on Saturday afternoons like after they're done on Saturdays and Sundays I I'm just having I I continue to worry that we we only heard from one person and that worries me so I'm I'm trying to think okay if you have more uses for it what what does that look like so essentially Flag Football Saturday afternoons and Sunday afternoons correct correct what about what about daytime summer use is that encumbered by this agreement or is that open for it is but for during the summertime s they'll have access to the park from um it's either 8 or 9:00 a.m. in the morning I don't have it right in front of me to about 1:00 or so during the Summers okay so if we wanted to layer in afternoon Cross or another flag football or something we would have that flexibility over the summer months and what's that summer period consist of that summer period is from um June through August okay and and the summer camp is part of the base fee or is there is that additional summer camp is part of their fee okay yeah comments I I'm I'm having a hard time with it because I feel it's very limiting for us to be able to do anything else and maybe it's because I might not understand what like life soccer takes on here when I've had the discussions it's always like it's kind you know crazy nothing else can happen there every parent is there every kid is there and so I I try to imagine what else can happen and I'm having a hard time with that I almost like there's a monopoly on this park and we have one vendor who's come in nobody else has said anything we've done this entire thing thinking it was going to be this amazing amazing thing and I I worry I wonder where or if we misstepped not in doing it but in parameters or something that made it so that other people didn't want to participate um am I the only oneing this way I I almost feel like if you did nothing they would have been there anyway and then we made this an amazing thing and it I guess I went to the movies and at the end the ending wasn't what I expected yeah no I I think you know I I was candidly surprised that we only had one respondent because I will tell you that had many clubs approached me about their inches before the solicitation went out um you know we had more than one response so I know the manager wants to say something and commissioner leave me wants to say something so I'll recognize the managering commission Le I'll come right back to you yeah thank you and you know I mean I I'll speak to the to the one bid uh since it was mentioned but I was going to speak in a broader sense but the the one bid certainly generally uh you know the the preference is to have you know multiple bids and anything that you do um you know I've lived this for a long time a lot of people uh show interest or say they want to but not everybody has the capability to run a program that's upwards of 700 kids Andor um will put money on the table that's guaranteed and so there's nothing about the solicitation document that excluded anybody from participating yet they decided not to um I have to tell you you know my experience has been uh since I've been here that um I get no phone calls no complaints that hasn't been the case in my prior lives I mean uh sometimes I spend more time mediating soccer fights than than running a city and and there's something to be said about that so the fact that there was one proposal but it came from an Inc and who we have a history with does not concern me if we were a startup and we were creating a new program and somebody just landed here and I would be worried but there's a history would I have preferred multiple bids yes but you know a lot of people say they they want to and they just you know can't can't deliver on a a program of this size which speaks to you know our intent the intent that has been since I've been here certainly was uh that this was a soccer first facility why because it's a program of over 700 kids you need a certain amount of space to be able to deliver a program a quality program in a space uh but for that if it was going to be a multipurpose facility we certainly wouldn't have a program of that size number one number two we certainly wouldn't get that Revenue we could get other revenues but the the city opted to pursue this as a soccer first facility for for the right reasons because it has a a successful program of you know upwards you know well almost 900 kids of which we capped uh given the challenges with that site so I I I struggle with you know the prospect that you know somehow um uh you know we went down the wrong path it was a very intentional approach to continue a program that has been very successful um in better conditions meaning bathrooms meaning a plain surface that could stay um in in in good conditions year round and certainly with with some lights that that were permanent nature that provide better lighting and so typical of any other facility these amenities have been brought in it's a big investment but it's catching up to 10 years of about $400,000 of investment which equaled one little Trail around the property and a Tot Lot right that's the end after 10 years that has been the investment so it is catching up to other facilities so I I just I just I'm um you know somewhat taken a back that somehow you know the approach of uh evaluating this as a soccer facility is is of concern given all the conversations we've had certainly since I've been here since January of 23 that that ultimately the majority of the commission said you know let's pursue this not only from a capital standpoint but from pursuing a program that will continue to have a very successful program so I I I just you know it it's it's the culmination of a process uh to deliver on a facility that's been underfunded uh uh you know the the the facilities themselves obviously you know are are not of quality to a program of of that size and and so it is has been a soccer first facility at the end of the day that's that's just a reality that's a commitment we made um and no different than may be other facilities that are very Centric to other uh Sports yes ma'am you have a question do do you know what other facilities are make make where do we where do we compare relative to other concession We compare ourselves to like is this a good deal is it bad deal is it do you have a comparison from well when we when we said the amount it was informed by what other programs were charging for for similar programs so um as we discussed what should be in the RFP uh uh we were informed by that research right and and Quinton and staff took a look at other programs and realize what where the market was at so the revenue is what the market is willing to provide and and so it was set as a base that was you know we felt a reasonable number based on what the competition was doing can can you remind me of what the base was and then what this is well what we're saying you're saying the we put in them on the RFP was a base of 150 and then we came in at 155 I think was a number right 155 is the average over over five years yes well yeah there's escalator so so it grows from 150 to 163 it goes the full term right so over 777000 which which is the full the full funding for this program would be 7 77,000 compared to 230,000 okay again in terms of the marketplace do we have a uh a sense of what U Mr Quenton sorry Quenton Mr Po sorry getting punch I'm getting Punchy up here do we have a do you have any information can share for the vice mayor about a baseline in terms of how we compare to other concessions yes we do so compared to our neighbors we are the highest the village of Pine Chris their revenue is approximately $57,000 on an annual basis how many how many kids do they have in that program they have roughly 650 okay all right and again their revenue is uh 57,000 for the year city of cor Gables their revenue is approximately 67,000 for the year and how many players um at this moment they run their program in the house and they have 265 kids okay uh the village of keas SK is approximately 13,000 um for the year um their program cap is 1,000 and they contract their program okay are you good commissioner leben your recognized sir you're you're on mute sir I have a question for Mr Pew and then I I want to follow up separately but gross revenue or net revenue that is their that's the vendor contract yeah no so the uh for Village of uh Village of Pine Crest um they received 30% of the gross so their gross um in Pine Crest is $190 $190,000 they receive 30% of that which is $57,000 cor Gables is that is revenue I don't believe that is their net because they they run their program inhouse they hire one director of soccer and they contract all their coaches out and Village aasc is also on a percentage split which is 10% of their gross so they're expecting for 13 respecting $1.3 million in Revenue can can I ask a question along the line commiss even let you recogniz for your comment do we have audit rights in this agreement we do okay so so essentially after year three if we think we're not getting a good deal we can choose not to extend because we and we'll actually have the ability to go in and review their books and understand their financial model is that a fair statement it is fair okay commiss Le you had a comment yeah thank you um I numberb so first of all the whole County thing and get into that debate a red herring again we didn't include the P playground number of other things who weren't and to get into all that it's been said in the day number of times over s a half million not by me by other people it's never been contested we can come back with those uh those those numbers um it's it's 150 but it's 100,000 more than we were getting with uh with no investment now people want to Pigeon hold me and criticize me I'm just want to hold people to their words people saying things like it's the single best investment we can make um a couple of other things things of but you compare dant other parts the Comm Community Center Palmer Park it's it's not you heard the vice mayor just say this a number of people have said this whether they realize or not this is a soccer specific Park none of other facilities you want to compare it to and you want to make a fair comparison a bias comparison or not a single Sport Park which brings me to another concern before I address that what I've been asking for years years upon years before anyone up there was on the day is and I don't know why no one's been able to quantify this how many South Mi participants are there additionally South Miami participants should pay less it was their tax dollars that went to improve the park so all the nonresidents could could participate that's the way it is at dant and South Miami residents should absolutely pay less and then one thing commissioner Le I don't want to interrupt you but on that point I just want to get you an answer is that fair so Mr director can you clarify is there a differential rate under this contract for residents versus non-residents and what would the rate be yes so there is a 20% discount for residents who sign up for the soccer program so using their competitive program as an example if I'm not mistaken in their U their fee proposal for competitive is estim at $2600 roughly for competitive for non-residents So 20% reduction is $2,100 or something like that and how does that compare to what the discounts we offer across other programs or Sports is that consistent with it is it is it more is it less how substantially discounted is for example for a resident to rent an hour of a court a Dante versus a non-resident so we so it's probably let's say for for residents it's like $5 to play tennis to rent it out for an hour or something like that and then um non residen is about $9 okay so it's it's a little bit higher at Dante but there is a discount for the socer program okay thank you for that okay commission Le I'm sorry continue yeah and then just my last point which I think we're all we're all missing and you know I've said two things in the day is the Brilliance I mean that I've learned in all these years the Brilliance of Simplicity and sometimes things are so obvious it's staring Us in the face we miss them but the vice mayor noticed it we're spending all this money and the investment that's already done we're not going backwards but essentially we're turning to a private park we could say oh you have access Sunday afternoon and during the day Monday through Friday but who who can go during the day Monday through Friday right or the market we're targeting is children you could say in the summer but it's oppressive the heat especially on on artificial turf and traditionally kids are busy during the day right they're in Camp they're in school so a family South Miami residents the ones who paid for this want to use it and their kids aren't in soccer what I'm hearing is they can only go Sunday afternoon so I think what we really have to look at is that we spent all this money essentially to turn into a private park a park that our residents don't have access to all the other parks that I mentioned that we're comparing this to you can go to dantey you you can go to the community center you can go to Palmer Park anytime anytime you want and I think that's also a concern and um and that yeah I one other thing but I forgot but yeah I think that's enough oh mayor yeah the other thing you've said a number of times is it wouldn't be just soccer you said there'll be pickle ball there'll be everything there so it's really just becoming a single use spk look I think we we're starting here and we may incorporate other uses we just the director just mentioned it I mean if There's an opportunity certainly I've had conversations about trying to find a place for pickle and paddle and you know um potentially there are locations here you know it will it require us to rethink maybe the way we've laid out portions of this park as they exist today probably but you know we'll have that conversation when we when someone actually steps forward and gives us something to react to and and when can our residents use the park Sunday afternoons I I think that I think would you restate please the hours in which you'll have Public Access so in and different soccer fields versus the park and everything else that's included we're talking about the just the soccer fields that are not being accessible correct during those hours correct okay so if you can just repeat the hours again yeah the park the Park is open Sunrise to 900 p.m. um the playground is open at all times the picnic shelters will be available for rental um at all times when the Park is open as far as the soccer field and can I ask just to follow up on that the the insur the utilization today is it better or worse than it was under the prior contract is it better or worse yeah in terms of the amount of time that the concessionaire has restricted use of the majority of the facility as it's worse now it's worse now that's that's what I wanted to confirm it's worse today right okay so there were no hours for the last five years they've been operating we've been operating under markedly worse uh contract in terms of Public Access correct and and marketly worse conditions under which the kids are playing absolutely so by approving this we are not only approving the condition of the park we're actually expanding the amount of Public Access correct okay the mayor yes sir do you expect to have more options of different sports to be played on these particular Fields yes because the field is going to be more uniform it's going to be more consistent it's going to be more available um we're going to be able to do flag football soccer um during the summer times when they're just running a summer camp that's only going to maybe 12 or 1:00 to the in the afternoon that entire afternoon and evening is going to be available so iect we could do a lot more I think I think the ability to have this park more inclusive by the way just it doesn't matter the numbers do speak for themselves but what what you guys are forgetting is that we're a city a municipality that cares about our community we are taking care through our concession are and our Parks over 900 kids on a daily basis what other City could say that anybody so I think let's let's let's we this game yeah there are other cities they mention more revenu than them too okay but that wasn't what you asked that was just soccer wasn't what you asked so I I think commissioner Le did you have anything else you want to say in closing okay so um it seems to me that we've got uh an obvious probably I'm going to guess likely two votes for and two votes against this concession agreement unless the vice mayor is going going to uh indicate otherwise so I am inclined if we are if we are rather than waste more time discussing this if we're going to end up with a two two vote I would just rather uh have the vice mayor make a motion to defer this item until the next meeting on on June 18 yes sir sorry no I I do have to say am I am mute I do have to say we've gone this far and we have to pick a lender and I said it earlier even though I've opposed the item consistently throughout every Community loves Robert I I think Robert's a fantastic guy and and friends whose kids play there only have positive things to say about Robert that wasn't always the case before we've gone to this point we have to go forward so um so you want to move the item for adoption I don't and I wouldn't assume I can't speak for someone else but I don't know if the vice mayor's going to vote now and you need three votes I I'm just again I want to just save us the heartache of having to vote it down and and move to reconsider it for deferral so so one more question and this is benefit is everyone okay with the stepped up rate it's 150 the first two years and then it doesn't go up in the second year and I think in the third year not of the agenda I don't have a hard copy contract in front of me we don't have to get into all the I mean as commission the details but do you want do you want to walk us through the steps again Quinton sorry or something I just on on the raid issue I mean we we that there was uh given the potential pivot either for the incumbent or anybody else coming in and not really knowing what would happen from the standpoint of the number of kids at the end of the day that's reality right uh we're making improvements some kids may go to a different program uh if it's a new vendor they don't know how many they would recruit so we were trying to give the vendor some stability early on by being able to sort of predict what they would have over a two-year window of which then we would have escalators so that's a reason why it stayed flat um and so we thought about it but we decided to opt for staying flat to give somebody an opportunity to have U some consistency and and be informed by what exactly happened from a participation standpoint okay Madam vice mayor you recognized I I just want to ask this because I I your entitles imagine what the the the other option would be if we said okay we have literally we've gone through this entire process we have one vendor if we said no to this vendor what are we doing with it we have to reissue I mean at this point we out of contract correct will we be out of contract correct it expired June 2nd yeah so we're out of contract so uh right now we've got families that are you know no no let's not talk about let's just talk about that no no I'm just I'm just again I want to again whether it's whether it's this vendor or another vendor what's going to happen for the next six months is that the park is going to be fow right right now the club you know I would imagine if this isn't approved they're going to continue to keep their kids right uh as part of the club but I their parents are probably have signed up with the expectation that they'd be coming back to the park in December but in the interim they're playing at a myriad of other locations because the training continues right at the beginning of the Fall so yes Mr manager and we thought about that and and and what I would share is you know that there's a concern potentially from a program standpoint you know what what we're projecting as to what we do next you know people are waiting right and and and this kind of gets you know they had Tri outs were in May but the program starts in August if somehow to your scenario I'm just speaking to that if we signal that somehow that is in shaky Waters people are going to opt for other programs I mean that's reality right um so so I'm concerned about having a program that's been built over years leading up to 900 kids that then gets into some sort of chaos because of this window of time uncertainty um so I I say that not necessarily as a hey do it because that's the case but it is a it is a valid concern right and so I I will share we have a lot of single use or doubleuse facilities I mean if we look at our Parks that's all they can accommodate at a reality I mean Palmer has that feature baseball or football you know uh Dante is tennis um the the the fitness center is primarily basketball because of the gym it occupies the majority of the space so this is not uncommon as to dedicating certain facilities for certain Sports to have the diversity of program in communities uh very common throughout in in park systems um if you had a bigger footprint you do see multi-use facilities so on the on the on the on the point about on the point about the solicitation again me I I see you I'm going to recognize you one second I think the the um let's assume this were to fail right and let's assume we were to come you know there was a motion that prevailed that said let's put this back out I I'm going to take the item so I'll save you the trouble no okay well she wanted she want she want she's going to support the item he said just try just curious I think I think the difficulty is I think one the difficulties is the mander's point where we are in the cycle of Club formation right is that everybody has or is making right now a commitment for next year and so if we were to put this out we probably wouldn't get anyone who could would likely move their program or take the risk of starting a new club based on where we are in the cycle by the time we got through that process we probably be past the past the summer and we would be into the window where people have already committed to another club so I think for us we would probably be carrying the new facility without a club for at least the next Club season is that a fair statement Mr director okay so that's what I just want to highlight just to kind of play the what game with you exactly because I don't I I didn't understand it it's I I tell you I think we all have to agree if no for no other reason than to uh stop giving my daughter adana's favorite person a hard time hard time okay commissioner Leeman did did you have a final comment I was G say but I have to add I believe there's a contradiction there are no other Sly used Parks but Palmer is but there's baseball and football that's not single use Dante there's going to be pickle ball there is outdoor workout equipment there is there's volleyball there's basketball there's a playground there's plenty of places where the public can enjoy it and have access to from sunrise to sunset and GI B there's everything I mean there's there's swimming there's there's there basketball there's there's the gym there's there's tutoring um there's cheerleading so I I just think you that's just categorically incorrect um but the other thing is we've already gone this far I've voted no in every step of the way and I'm substantially that I shared everything I had to say but now it's a question of an operator no operator we have a great operator so my vote Yes now is is strictly for the for the for understood do you want to move the item then I'll give someone else the courtesy but you can count on my affirmative vote is there is there a there was already a motion there's a motion by who you and second okay so we have a motion in a second there we go okay can we call the rooll and put us out of our misery commissioner lemman I cannot yes commissioner Cay yes Vice bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 4 Z Steve you can drink the entire okay let's read item 15 and hopefully we can get out of here item 15 in ordinance of the mayor and City Commission of the city of South Flor amending section 2-3 compensation for Commissioners and mayor establish of article one in general of chapter 2 Administration and city government of the city code of ordinances to provide for health insurance benefits for Commissioners and dependent family members thank you commissioner uh K this is your item you want to present it all right well we'll have the discussion because I I don't think I don't think I communicated really well last time what the item was intended to do so let me be a little bit more specific currently the city um provides only insurance for the individual um it does not provide insurance for families the intent of my legislation two weeks ago was to provide as a form of maybe compensation is not the right word but a benefit a benefit thank you um to the commission mayor and vice mayor was to increase that to have families included paid by by the city if you do not want insurance and defer it and obviously you have to show proof that you have insurance elsewhere the intent was that you get your stien as we currently do right so that was the intent of the of the legislation inclusively I mean it it's you look when you when you talk about insurances insurance is not bilateral or is equivalent right everybody's different somebody can choose to do individual somebody can do individual and their wife or somebody can do individual wife and family right it's really it's not Equitable insurance has never been Equitable right so that's something I struggled two weeks ago to understand like how do we get to this point so I don't support the second option that was provided by our City attorney my my option was quite frankly pretty St pretty straightforward we provide we provide family offering for insurance and benefits for the commission mayor and vice mayor and if you do not take the insurance with proof that you already have insurance elsewhere you have provided the stien that which we currently already have thank you for the explanation uh questions or comments commissioner lean you had your hand up before did you want to be recognized sorry I mean I don't know if you want me to start go ahead okay so um you have a lot to say I'll first I'll repeat what I said uh last week anyone who says so again sake of transparence we all make ,000 a month uh plus we have I make the big bucks I what you're talking about the mayor is an extra 2, 14,000 and I don't you know what the expense account is 12 or 1,400 a year it's so ballpark $100 a month um we receive Insurance last time I said $738 but round it the 750 believe it's $761 but I'm still going to round it uh to to 750 we receive that benefit we have uh three options take the insurance take cash and L of it essentially same but take the cash and subsidize your your spous policy so one point is if you decide to go forward with that it should be it should be consistent every seat it's not commissioner should be treated equally there's people that are widowed that are that are single um whatever that maintain separate finances that everyone should be should be treated equal that's one two for anyone to say that it's costing the money which has been said to be a commissioner everyone that that going in with or without the insurance and people are saying that because paying for family insurance goes above the $1,000 stien um the amount budgeted by the way it equates to exactly $1,700 if you look at the amount of $102,000 and7 a year you divide it by 12 you divide it by five um that equates to 1,700 so minus the $1,000 stien you'd be left paying 700 anyone who says that not being able to add your family is a benefit again is categorically wrong just the fact that you can add your family is an absolute benefit the other thing I'll say and I'm sorry but I believe this put this you can put it on front of the you know in front of the voters that's one option but I think I don't think it's transparent I think it's a backdoor approach I think if you want to raise and this equates to 170% raise exactly except for the May or a little l because instead of 1,700 over a th000 it'll be 1,700 over fractionally more um it equates to 170% raise you should be honest and own it and take it on the front end also that number is not inflationary whereas the health insurance is and then you can use that money to subsize your spouse policy you can take it out or you can use it for insurance but at least be transparent with the public don't back door with with another benefit well I mean I I'll guess I answer that I'm not trying to back door anything I think what we're trying to do is the public needs to understand that currently the commission some people don't can't even be afford to be a part of a commissioner right because they'll be paying back to the city and and secondly I think that what we want to do collectively as a forward thinking City and municipality is how do we attract better Talent right like we have we've struggled throughout the years to attract Talent um but because you know it's it's not affordable to be here right it's we want to make sure that we're a better City for that and then I think that's one of the ways of doing that we just went through a whole study we were talking about compensation for our staff and we never really spoke about the city manager's great you know benefits or or ours um but it's something that should be discussed not only for not not for our benefit because like you said you know maybe some of us take it or maybe some of us don't take the compensation or the benefits but for future references I think it's important so that's that's that's my feedback on that um met B before I recognize commiss Le again would it benefit us to see what other municipalities are doing so that we see where we are in comparison to them we we we have that study we we can present it too because I don't know if was provided as backup it was not there was no backup to the item okay other than other than the legislation no because maybe that then becomes the talking point because I I understand the whole premise of this I I think that if this was even a consideration that instead of saying we would cover Family Health Care coverage we would I think have to make a salary Shift versus a health care shift just because that is something that changes so so often that I think it would be difficult maybe for budgetary reasons to kind of pin that down can can I ask can I ask a question as well because just is point of information do we cover the cost of uh employee family coverage or just the just the employee I believe it's just the EMP just the employee so so I think look I think this is I I I mean I plot the intention um where I have trouble with it is on that point if we we're going to do this for us we should do it for everyone else in the organization um you know I I I think what I'm frankly more concerned about personally um I mean I you know again it's not a secret I have my credit card on file and I get balance build for the cost of my fames coverage so um this would certainly be beneficial to me but what I'm more concerned about is the quality of the insurance that we have I will just tell you was now now being on two separate plans year to year I think the last plan was marketly better The incremental cost of our current plan at least the plan that I'm using is have been higher I'll just tell you a of pocket costs on on Pharmaceuticals uh I've seen you know have a very benign prescription for blood pressure medication it went from five bucks to 1350 right every 90 days so and I I would imagine that those costs throughout the plan have probably increased I'm more concerned about that uh for the organization than necessarily this individual benefit so I I think you know again I don't think there's any intention to back door anything here commission Kai I think it's a a very considered proposal on your part um I would just tell you frankly if we want to if we want to you know address the issue why don't we just if we you want to talk about a thousand raise across the board for Commissioners and the mayor I mean that would that would certainly take care of the problem you take care of whatever problem we have uh and it just you know deals with the Topline number you know we can all make our choices based on that I I I think rather than doing that we should we looked at all of our employees and we're trying to harmonize that we're not Eternal so if we are interested in continuing to have the conversation I think that is a better road to take than tying it to Health Care particularly one because of what you said that it it shouldn't be like you know a separate health insurance than the rest of the country uh that we shouldn't have a separate health insurance than the rest of the city but I I unless we unless we willing to offer it and I mean there's a conversation to be had it's it's it would be I think a tremendous benefit for employees to have that but but you know again shave a lot of stuff I don't know what the call I don't know again the point my first question was what's the cost and can we afford it just look at us and that would give you an idea I I haven't even looked at the number look at this the potential incre it's $93,000 exactly that's why for five people so yeah so I think look I think for me it's for me the equity is not an equity across um across family types as commissioner leedman has indicated it's really you know um we are part of the team and and I think for for me the the the the more important signal to the organization is is um basically having the same benefit week that they do yeah on this issue um so I'm saying harmonizing the positions with other municipalities versus this if we're even interested in having this conversation continue to that through the mayor I'm sorry yes sir go ahead yeah vice mayor like there there's a document that been provided and I think what we'll do I mean regardless if it passes or not you know I think it's more of a benefit in the future of what we want to recruit but um the city manager has the documents and it ranges from across the board I mean and it's and it's pretty inclusive I mean we're talking about smaller towns of like medley of 20 people to Coral Gables to gal and haia right so you see you see the gamut of different uh options U Coral Gable just gave themselves a big increase in Sal let's not compare our I'm not I'm just giving you the different G no and I but again this proposal was different from that just to be clear right and that it doesn't apply to us I mean we have to be basly there's be another election that happens before it app I mean it's going to happen after November right is when this benefit would go into effect so I want to draw that distinction so it's clear for the record thank you I appreciate that yeah and so it goes across the gam of the board right so and you'll see and so that the actual table has the benefits what benefits are provided to the council the different types of council management and and you know if it's a strong mayor versus not so it's all inclusive there why I think we should look at that thing right sure and I should have provided so that's my fault you know I I had the data and I should have been asked to make sure it's part of it so we can review and discuss it and if you want maybe we just defer to discuss it again or if you guys are totally against it like you know if you guys are you know mayor it seems like you have your personal reasons why you want to not go with it it's obviously just sounds like Josh commissioner leeven doesn't want to do it but if Lisa you're open to it and Josh has I mean and Brian and commission commissioner Cory's not here to actually listen to it so if you guys want to defer it that's fine if not just vote it down and call it to motion and so be it I am probably your a terrible example of do you want to hinge it on me so I I leave it to you guys all to say I I just think if we're looking at it just like this it's not it's not an Apples to Apples conversation if you want it to give yourself the benefit of having a more cohesive conversation based on the reality of this position as a public servant then that's that's a whole other conversation and so if you think that that comparing ourselves to other municipalities and then coming to a decision on whether we want to move forward with that or not makes more sense I'm open to that not not for myself because realistically I I end up giving most of it away so but but it it it's more of a do you want to have this conversation I I just think this conversation it's not you know I know we all give up our time and we do that for for the better good of our community and try to help out that's a given right we all do that it I just think that moving forward you know it's just you know something that we should provide as a benefit in lie of payment or whatever the case may be where it's just an added benefit you well then why don't we defer it get the comparisons and then look at it instead of a health care insurance thing a position so that at least we're talking something that we've done with our employees municipalities are doing with their elected officials versus this one that the data is there we can provide that okay well if you guys want do that would we be open to that commiss commiss LE you wanted to make a statement I feel bad yeah a few things so the objective is to cover the family right that's what I've heard but the raise you give now and I have again the hard number2 ,7 divided 12 divid 5 equals ,700 it's 170% increase for the Commissioners a little less for the mayor who makes 2,000 or more annually but the objective if I heard correctly was to cover the insurance so that's a for not including the mayor but say the mayor makes 122,000 that's $700 more right now people who opt in for the family or this year it should go up next year they're probably paying less than 600 more so so if you give yourselves a 70 or 75% raise which means $700 or $750 you should be able to cover your family that's that's one point another thing I completely disagree with which was just said is can't afford to be a commissioner any other way well you're stuck there you're already getting Insurance you're I mean pine Cris doesn't pay anything no one does this for the for the money um you're already getting health insurance for the individual you're already getting your stien no one used the expense account and then um it's nominal and then um sorry but the other thing is and the fact that you can enroll your family also as a benefit it makes no sense to me when I hear oh then I can't afford to be a commissioner you're already getting it's it's only $600 more to cover your entire family and without it you have individual coverage and you have $1,000 that is a benefit and no one runs for that reason and the other thing I'll say is it's why Champion forever moving the election to November is to attract better candid and right I think you no one will agree more than three of you that it attracted better candidates so I don't I don't disagree with that commissioner Leman I I just think that and by the way you went to an extreme with Pine Crest I I agree with you they don't they don't have salaries and they don't have benefits that's that is Pine um that's the one exception right so that if you guys get to look at the table you'll see the gamut of the different data points there but um you know again look I'm I'm just I'm just just I'm just thinking what I think is right for the commission like again if you guys don't think it's right then then so be it it's not a benefit for me so you I just think it's a benefit for everybody else moving forward okay do we do we have a are we going to move to defer this item is there a motion well I only defer of you guys I'll second it but I'm not gonna up to you guys yes commissioner lean sorry doesn't that cover the objective is raise your salaries by 750 I'm not comfortable with raising salaries I think I'd be more I'm going to move to I'm going to move to deny the item then yeah I'll second that okay so a motion to deny by myself a second by the vice mayor Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner lean to deny now to deny to deny yes to deny s commission k no V Bon yes mayor Fernandez yes item fails three I mean one item passes three Z 31 yeah okay the Motions did not or motion the motion to deny the ordinance whatever deny adoption of the ordinance whatever I should style a motion to to approve I'm sorry should we reconsider that for the record or is it clear okay okay is there any other business before this commission oh we have to is there a motion is there a motion to reconsider item five mad VI want make it I I move that we reconsider okay is there a second okay a motion by uh the vice mayor and a second by commissioner leedman uh can you reread item five again Madam clerk yes excuse me item five a resolution of the May City Commission of the city of South Mii Florida approving the form of artist agreement for donated artwork for the Columbia Sculpture Garden at denel Park thank you for that um Mr City attorney do you want to uh read the proposed modifications to 4.3 sure so they're two simple uh changes um the the first would be in section 4.3.1 we would add the words uh for non-commercial purposes to to the first uh the first Clause it would say artist grants the city an irrevocable Perpetual license to reproduce the images of the artwork for non-commercial purposes and then in we would add a new section 4.3.5 uh that would say for avoidance of Doubt City shall not be permitted to make replicas of the artwork without the prior written consent of the artist this is a replica as opposed to a reproduction um so I what's the difference if you can explain for yeah a a a replica would be re Recon basically reconstructing the the sculpture in know even even the example that you gave about giving giving away like yes that would be a replica uh as opposed to a reproduction which be reproducing the image of the sculpture on something on a poster on a mug on a t-shirt um in a brochure and a magazine that kind of thing okay so if we wanted so right now I believe in our state of the city report we have images of the sculpture garden that would be fine so those are replicas and not reproductions those are reproductions those are reproductions replicas would be a physical object that is a little sculpture a threedimensional object a threedimensional object that's which so why if we if we are entering into a contract with the artist why wouldn't that consent to the replica for those purposes suffice why would we why would we want to require of ourselves the additional step of getting their consent for that purpose I think that's a policy question okay would ask the vice mayor to okay usually when you have a sculpture or a even a photograph sure and I will use Susanna milman okay she is a famous she is a world famous photographer she photographed rock stars okay and let's say she took a photograph of me I am Lisa of the Lisa bonich band she is the only person allowed to reproduce that piece even if she sold me a print of that piece I could not then make more prints of that piece and sell them understood yeah okay the same is true of a sculpture when you have a sculpture if you're going to reproduce it either in its Ono one size or Miniatures of that sculpture that actual hard piece belongs to the artist or they have to give you permission to do that same as with a photograph with Susanna milman if I wanted to reproduce it 50 times Susanna milman would have to tell me it's okay okay but if what if Susanna milman signs a contract with you when you buy the when you buy or given the art and says you're free to reproduce it I have never seen that happen but unless unless you purchase it from something like dreams time or one of those websites where you buy the right to reproduce it at will this is I what we what I would just say is this is I think commissioner leing wants be recognized I'll will get to you right now so yes sir I see you raising hand I'm just suggesting why don't we ask we definitely should ask if they say no then we can consider the the counter but I think I think our starting point should be to allow us to reproduce the piece not for non-commercial Purp purp maybe they can specify some limitations that are acceptable to them on how we can you know what kinds of reproductions size scale material that we could use they may have some opinion about those kind of things but I don't know that I want to put myself in a position from the beginning of having asked the mother mayi every time I want to recreate it I I I just think we're walking ourselves into a problem I think that with what we have now we can take a photograph of it and redo it and give it to somebody as a gift we can put it on a poster we can put it on a mug we can do something that is not actually replicating their intellectual property you feel differently about that have at it and the artists will have to to either sign off on that or tell you no or what conditions you'd literally have to go back to every single artist right now we're looking at it in in regards to this park but that doesn't mean that that's what it's going to be for forever if you guys are comfortable with that I am very uncomfortable with that but if you guys are all comfortable with that I'll follow you guys but I'm here to tell you that I I don't think that's a good idea commissioner leedman you want to be recognized we can vote on it yeah thanks so uh I I appreciate that context so the difference here is is no one's purchasing it there's no commercial intent to reproduce it to sell um this is a really heart-felt donation the people who donated couldn't be more excited honestly to be a part of it and they just want to promote Colombia Colombian art and with whatever you guys want I told you how the board is commercial we're not we're selling I don't even know it's the mayor's idea I appreciate if we'll even do a keychain or we may not who knows yeah will state of the city we we used to give something away I don't even know if we will but we could even have a two box option no you don't have permission or you do have permission um we're not diluting their art we're not going to commercialize it we're not going to sell it um I don't know I never thought of this before but the mayor is a lot more and and and the City attorney actually recommended the same thing and I said that's what the mayor said in the in the sunshine meeting I will go with whatever you guys want just to get it done I'm just having you I don't agree with okay so so why don't we do this why don't we adopt approve the form of the contract with the language right and delegate to the mandator the authority to negotiate away right reproduction rights am I saying that correctly am I talking about the right set of Rights Mr C attorney yes okay so so so if in fact right the replic the replica rights excuse me okay that's why I wanted clarification so so commissioner Le my thought there is we approve the form if we get everything great if the artist objects with respect to replica rights the manager has the delegated authorities so these contracts don't have to come back to us right to just say okay right make sense to you sir yeah just you know I'm going to be the one who's try getting these signed that's fine but he's ultimately he's got to be the signatory so if it's you and they express an objection to that request then we don't you know we can certainly um leave that door open okay okay done okay sir is there a motion to adopt the form agreement with the modifications described are you gonna do it m commissioner lean I think the vice May wants to know if you want the honor of moving the item and you're on mute sure sorry sure okay so we have a motion to adopt the form agreement as as modified is there a second I'll second okay so we have a motion by commissioner Leeman a second by the vice mayor any further discussion seeing none Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner Leeman yes commission Cay yes Bon yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 4 Z thank you and with that we stand adjourned have a good evening