Hi everyone. So we are here tonight to talk about selecting a math course for middle school for next year. If as we're going the uh sort of limitations of this format is I can't see you or hear you.
So it's like talking to mystery people. Um, but if you have questions along the way, if you could put them in the Q&A and then when the session is done, um, Ann Bodner Bodner or someone else will read the questions to me so that I can respond to them if I haven't responded
to them along the way or um, other people who know may also respond in the in the chat just because they know the they know the answers. sort of like um a mental space I like to get us to before we start is this idea
that no matter what path you take, your child's going to get to high school graduation and it's going to be lovely. Um no matter what math courses you choose in middle school, there is still
a path to graduation, of course. and not only a path to graduation but to all high level math classes that that are offered. So know that um the choices you make here don't prohibit anything for your
child. You're really trying to be in a place of considering what is the right pace for my child to learn mathematics and when is my child going to be ready to handle complete
abstraction. Those are the two things that that you're going to be considering really when you make the decisions. Try not to worry about um where will they be in 10th grade, where will they be in 11th grade and so on. There are so many different ways to get wherever you want
to get to in high school. I'm not saying they're all easy. I'm just saying there's lots of different ways. Another reason we are here is because there is a policy in this district that students and parents can choose
any course that is offered um at the level that the child wants to take it. And this really came out of things from the high school in that um we used to have, you know, five different levels of a course in high school and then AP on
top of that. And so and it used to be you have to in order to get into those different levels you had to test in. But now since we've had this on the books and I think it has to be close to 10 years that we've had this access policy on the books, students can choose which
course and which level that that they want to take it. It's not exactly the same in in middle school math in that we don't really have course levels, but we do have different course options at sort of how fast you want to move through the
courses. This is another background that I like sort of to keep in your mind. I don't know how much you know about arch bridges. Um, when I was a fifth grade teacher back in the day, I had to teach an architecture unit and this was part of it. the idea of um
compression in architecture. And when you look at an arch bridge, each of those stones is carrying some of the weight. And the stones on the sides are pushing down into the ground and they
are also pushing up against this keystone. And that means that the keystone has to be the strongest of all the stones. All the stones have to be strong. But if the if the keystone isn't
strong, the bridge will not hold. It will not hold. And that's often why you will see the keystone be physically bigger. I think there's probably some aesthetic value to it as well, but it is also because the keystone has to symbolically and literally be the
strongest stone in K12 mathematics. Algebra 1 is the keystone from kindergarten through 12th grade. Every math course that comes before algebra 1 over on that left side of the
arch, everything that comes, each stone builds on the previous stone. So first grade builds on kindergarten, second grade builds on first grade and so on and so on. So that then sixth grade is building on everything from elementary school and seventh grade is building on
sixth grade and so on. And then all of those are building up to to prepare a student to be ready for the abstraction of algebra 1. All the courses that come after are relying on algebra 1. They are
leaning on it and building on it in order to be strong enough themselves. So what follows algebra 1 is geometry. That requires a fluid knowledge of algebra 1. Algebra 2 heavily relies on algebra 1
and then pre-calculus and calculus and so on. And I could add in there some physics and geometry. I mean physics and um chemistry as well also all rely on algebra 1. So algebra 1, I want to get out of this mindset of like it's a race
to get to algebra 1 as fast as you can. How fast can I get my kid to algebra 1? Um, I know that feels cool and it feels like an achievement, but it's definitely one of those things that, um, if you get there too fast and you can even feel
like you were successful when you're in it, but then two years later, we're finding that this that a lot of students didn't actually retain it, didn't actually internalize it, and so they're struggling then when they get to high
school, I'm here to caution you to move carefully and to move deliberately and intentionally when making that choice. On an up note, here are the courses offered uh in middle school. So, in the first column, if a child is going
into grade six, the course options are regular grade six math, that's based on the grade six standards, and we have grade six pre-alggebra. This is an accelerated course. By accelerated we mean there are two years of math being
taught in one year. So that is all of grade six and all of grade seven are being taught in one year. And as Americans we think that's a bargain. I love a bargain. It is a bargain. Yes, it is efficient. However, what that means is
just keep in mind in elementary school we have 90 minutes of math per day. In the middle school, we have about 45 minutes of math per day. So, we have half as much instructional time and we're now talking about covering twice as much
mathematics. That is a big change for many students. On top of that, more maturity is expected of them because it's expected that they're going to be handling seventh grade work and so some seventh grade responsibility is expected of them. And there isn't the time
because of the quick pace, there isn't the time to practice and practice and practice. If your child does well with practicing math after they learn it, that that's how they internalize it, then I suggest they choose grade six math. If they understand it before the teacher is even done explaining it and
they're ready to jump through it and they can think of other ways that you would apply it, then this is probably the right pace for them. And there are some kids who um are just are at that pace and that's fine. Then in grade seven we have three course options. We have grade seven math which is regular grade seven math
standards. We have grade seven pre-alggebra which is a lot like grade seven math except we have added some additional extensions into that course. That's why we call it an extended course. It is not accelerated. It is not two grade levels in one year. But we did
add in some of the grade 8 content just with the eye on that a student in grade seven pre-alggebra is trying to be ready to move into algebra 1 the following year. So it has some extended content in it. We don't hold them to it, meaning we
aren't um expecting them to have mastery of that grade 8 content, but we are including it so that they are starting to think in that way prior to moving into algebra 1. And then the third option is uh algebra 1 itself in grade
seven. This also is an accelerated course. Whenever we are talking about algebra 1 in the middle school, it's different than high school algebra 1. It is different in the sense that in algebra 1 in high school they're teaching only algebra 1. When we teach
it in the middle school we are teaching grade eight standards and the algebra 1 standards. So two grade levels in one year. And then in grade 8 you have three options. Grade 8 intro to algebra which is the eighth grade standards. Grade 8
algebra 1 which is the grade 8 and algebra 1 standards. and then geometry which is the geometry standards or the grade 10 standards. A couple of things I was saying earlier about this idea of we want students to be ready for algebra 1
before they take it. That is our goal here. Our prime directive, if you're a Star Trek fan, a prime our prime directive in the math department is to have students as ready as possible before they take algebra 1. And in order
to do that, we have built in some ways to help make that happen. One way is if they take grade six pre-alggebra, they take it in grade six. Remember that's grade six and seven together. If they were less than successful in
that class, to us that's they got less than an 85% average by the end of the year, we are going to recommend that in grade seven they take grade seven pre-alggebra. It's a different course. It's just grade seven with the added grade eight piece to get ready for
algebra 1, but it makes sure that students master those grade seven concepts that that they may not have mastered when they were in grade six pre-alggebra. So there is that opportunity to if grade
six algebra didn't go as you'd hoped then uh grade seven pre-alggebra will help a student be more ready for algebra 1 which is our goal. The other option is and we don't love this one but it is it it is helpful
for some students. So a student takes algebra 1 and seventh grade they are less than successful they're getting less than 85%. You're like 85% that sounds awfully high. Yes, but we allow a lot of retakes along the way. And so, um, retakes inflate students grades,
right? And so, um, you think, well, they're getting a chance to retake because they've had chance to relearn and so they're getting the higher grade. Yes. But if we just use their original grades, their average would be more like a 75, right? So, when we're saying 85, it's more like think what you probably
know internally as a 75. Um, but anyway, if they're less than successful in algebra 1, we recommend that they take algebra 1 in eighth grade. This is imperfect because they probably didn't master seventh grade content and that's why they struggled in algebra 1. And so
if they take algebra 1 again, they're never getting that seventh grade content that they had missed. But it does help for those students who just weren't ready for the pace of algebra 1 or the abstraction of algebra 1. So it does certainly help those students. And then the last point I wanted to make just
that in geometry as um geometry is not just an open option for everyone in grade 8. It's only for students who have already been successful in algebra 1. So let's look at what the math course progressions could look like. And this
isn't counting this is just what we offer in middle school. After middle school they can take a summer course before high school. They can take summer courses while they're in high school. they can double up in math courses while they're in high school. Lots of different options at the high school. I'll let uh Miss Parcio explain all
those to you someday. Um but just in the middle school, this is what what you want to think about. So as the way the state standards are written, the classes would progress like this. Grade six math, grade seven math or pre-alggebra, grade eight intro to algebra, grade nine
in the standards is algebra 1, and grade 10 is geometry. That is the normal way that the national and state standards are written. Very normal across our country to move in that order. Another way to do it in this
country that is pretty normal is to accelerate one grade level and that is they do grade six math and then they do grade seven pre-alggebra and then in grade eight they take some form of algebra 1.
So grade 8 algebra 1 is pretty normal in this country. And the reason for that is if you take algebra 1 in eighth grade then you can get to calculus by 12th grade without having to do any summer courses or double up courses. So that's
why this country a lot of schools move algebra 1 into eighth grade just to make it uh simpler to get to calculus by grade 12. And then we offer this other option that I present to you with
caution. And that is in grade six, they can take grade six and grade seven in one year for grade six pre-alggebra. That's two years at one time. And then the following year in grade seven, they can take intro to algebra and algebra 1 in one
year. And then in grade eight, they take geometry. So that is five years of mathematics in three years. And I realize as it's coming out of my mouth, I should stop saying it like it's a bargain, right? Like it it sounds like a bargain. Um but again, if you just think
of it as I have to run two marathons in sixth grade and then I have to run two more marathons in seventh grade um in order to get to geometry in eighth grade. Just think of it that you're taking on two full years in each of those years and that's a lot of rigor
and kids burn out. That's why I'm saying it in that way. There are kids who burn out by time they get to like 10th grade they're just like I'm over this, right? So you sort of have to be considering the long term with it. As I'm saying that, we have plenty of students who are just like salivating at this level. They're loving it. They're loving it.
Um, and that's great and that's why it exists for kids like that, but it isn't necessarily uh the analogy I think I used last year was, you know, the students who the b when babies are born, you know, and they start walking, um, the ones that walked first aren't
necessarily our Olympic runners. Just because they walked first doesn't mean they they became the best at it. So just because someone gets to algebra 1 in seventh grade doesn't mean they're better at it than someone who takes algebra 1 in ninth grade. I could
actually point out plenty of times that the opposite is true. Right? So it's not about getting it's not about hoarding classes. It's not about getting somewhere as fast as you can. It's about thinking what is the best way for my child because to be ready for algebra 1
because that algebra 1 we know is the keystone for all future math and science learning. Exactly. What do these recommended paths then look like when we put it on the chart. So you could start in grade six math, go to regular grade seven math and then go to grade 8 intro uh to algebra.
That is how the standards are written. You could also start in grade six math, go to grade seven pre-alggebra and then go to either algebra 1 or if grade seven pre-alggebra was a struggle, you're like, I'm going to take one more year of learning before I go into algebra 1, so
I'm going to take grade 8 intro to algebra. Either one of those choices, we see them both a lot. Another option would be to start in grade six pre-alggebra. And at the end of that, if the child was not fully successful, did
not master it, is not fluid with all of the grade seven concepts, then we are going to suggest, recommend that the child takes grade seven pre-alggebra to solidify those concepts. If they've been successful, they have over an 85%, everything else is all the other scores
are, you know, on track, then okay, we're going to recommend that they move into algebra 1. And then after uh algebra 1 the same thing comes comes up. If they have not been as successful and fluid and masterful as we would like to see we are
going to recommend that they take algebra 1 again. And if they have been absolutely fluid and masterful and and uh flexible with their thinking then we recommend that they take geometry. So, I've been using the word
recommend quite a bit tonight and that's new for this year. This is not something um we did some very simple version of it maybe about 10 years ago but uh no about eight years ago but um but we are so often
when we present this data I have parents say to me how am I supposed to make this decision? I'm not a math teacher. I don't know how my child's doing. all I see are grades on the report card or you and so on. And so, um, this year we are providing you with data to help make
that decision. What kind of data are you going to give us, Kim? Well, we're going to have several data points that you'll see. You'll see some sort of class average depending on what grade they are in or course they're in. You will see an diagnostic score.
Anxli is an online program that we use. It's it has sort of two features to it. One of it is an online practice and learning piece. But the piece we're talking about here is the diagnostic and our students take it three times per year. They take at the beginning, middle and end of the year. We'll be look you
will be seeing their middle middle of year scores and it gives an approximate grade level equivalent of how much math they know like oh they are approximately at uh sixth grade second month of
learning. and it's an approximation but in this is our first year with and I have to say I've been finding it pretty accurate. The only limit on it is it is really skill-based and not so much about flexible uh thinking or novel thinking
which is all required certainly when you get to algebra. It is much more um you know solve this equation very literal in that sense. Then we have NJSLA 24 and NJSLA 23. And you're going to ask Kim why two years of NJSLA? And say I'm going to
tell you why. because in I can't give you 2025 scores because we're just taking NJSLA right now and so we won't have the 2025 scores to give you because I can't give you the 2025 scores. I'm giving you two years worth of data because if the 2023 and the 2024 scores
are similar for math for your child, that's highly highly highly predictive of what their 2025 score will be. So, if you're seeing they got uh 780 in 2023 and then like a
770 in 2024, you have a pretty solid sense of where they are, right? You know that that's really where they're going to be achieving. It's it's highly predictive in that manner. And then the last is we will give you uh a score from the Nagli. Nagli is a general abilities test. It's
a it's a gifted test. Um but it's called a general abilities test. Some you may hear some people refer to it as the NGAT. You'll never hear me refer to that. I call it an eggary. Um but there's a score that will tell
you if you know if your child is in this test that has we use the two portions of the test for math and that is uh there's one that's quantitative and there's a portion of the test that is non-verbal like spatial reasoning. And we use those two scores. We're going to give you an
average of those two scores. All right. So, once we decided that these are the assessments we're going to use, the middle school math department got together and we looked at all of this data for our current students and we said, "Okay, so where are they falling? How are they achieving? What is this,
you know, what is this doing for us?" We had a really good sense already after years and years of doing this what the class average tells us and what NJSLA te tells us. But naglier were new for us this year. And so we needed to get an understanding of how predictive those
are for us and what are they telling us. And because they are new for us, we gave a pretty big window of achievement um in the recommendations because we just aren't fully sure how that's going to shake out. So we just gave really reasonable fair expectations for everyone on
that. And then after we did that, we set scores to be recommend to recommend a student for each of the higher level courses. Right? So, you don't need a recommendation to get into regular grade six math or grade seven math, right? You well, you can choose any course you want
at all from your course options. But when you're looking at it, we are not making a recommendation for uh we're not setting scores to that we think are best to be in grade six math because everyone would be in grade six math. That's where
if they're in grade six, right? So, but we did make recommendations for if we ch if we think a student is ready for pre-alggebra. And in grade seven, we make a recommendation if we think they're ready for grade seven pre-alggebra or if they're ready for
algebra 1. And then in grade eight, we do it for algebra 1 and for geometry. of the five scores, seventh going to eighth may only have four scores, but of the five scores, students must meet all of those scores, all of those cuto offs to be
recommended for a course. And you're like, Kim, that is so strict. And I be like, yeah, it is. It is strict because um it's the cleanest way to deal with the data. And remember, you still get a choice, right? So we're providing you
the data to help you make a decision and we're drawing a clean line and that is if they are achieving all of these cuto offs that we have listed here then they will most likely be successful in pre-alggebra or algebra 1 whatever
the course may be right that's why we're making it that clean I had a teacher contact me today and say, so for example, um I say a seventh grader moving into eighth grade
should in EXL should have a score of a 750 if they're going into algebra 1. 750 means seventh grade, fifth month. So seventh grade, midyear. That's what that means. So I'm saying at mid year they should be at mid year of seventh grade.
If they're going into algebra 1 the next year, they really better at least be at mid year of seventh grade. They really should be more in eighth grade, but we're being lenient and saying middle of seventh grade. Anyway, the teacher said to me, I have a student. She's at 740 and I think she can do algebra 1. And I was like, okay, have that conversation
with the parent. That's fine. It I'm not going to start adjusting the data because someone is off a few points. That's not how a system works. We've set these cuto off data, this cutoff data based on our current students and how those students are being successful and
our experience and our knowledge of how each of these assessments work. So, you still have that right. If your child's just off a little bit on one assessment, you still can choose whatever course you want. We're saying being meeting all of the cuto
offs for each of these assessments that is what can help you understand if your child is ready for a certain course. So just keep that in mind. This is this isn't like it's not keeping you out of a course. It's here to help you understand
if your child is ready to take a course. So, for parents of fifth graders going into sixth grade, you're going to get a letter from us in the next few days. And page three of that letter, I know it's page three because I wrote it. Page
three of that letter is going to look like this. And it'll have your student's name and student number at the top. And then it's going to have this list of data and the scores that go with it. So, the first one is the grade five math classroom average score. We don't take their average of the whole year in fifth
grade. We just look at these six specific tests. Why these six specific tests? Because they are the most highly predictive of middle school performance. Any uh bit of research you read out there about what is predictive of whether a student will be successful
in algebra 1. Every single bit of literature out there will say it has to do with how well they performed in grade four and grade five fractions. that is the single greatest predictor of their achievement in algebra 1. So that's why there are three fraction categories there. Obviously we as teachers know
that we want uh fluency with their multi-digit multiplication and division. So that's there. And then the last one is interpret expressions. And that's because this is in fifth grade when we introduced in a very gentle way uh algebraic notation.
So those all of those topics are important for their success in sixth grade and beyond and that's why we've picked those. But we will give you an average of those scores. This for fifth grader, this is coming from their progress reports. That's on a 4.0 scale
for fifth graders. So we're looking for um a 3.8 or higher in order to get uh a recommendation for a pre-alggebra. That means they can get one. they have to score all fours except one three and then for the LL diagnostic you'll have a grade equivalency there
and I'll come circle back around and what that is and then the NJSLA scores and the nagliier average and then at the bottom of the page there's this statement that says based on this data the South Orange Maplewood school district recommends that your child take blank
math class next you know whatever course next school year this could be um sixth grade pre-alggebra for a sixth grader. It could be sixth grade six math. Those are the only two options for sixth grade and then you have until May 30th
in order to make your choice in power school. If you have a sixth grader moving into seventh grade, your data page three of the letter will look like this. So you have the current math course. We just need to know what the course is because um in order to be recommended for algebra 1, they have to
have been successful in grade six pre-alggebra. The reason for that is we need them to have taken seventh grade content in order before they take algebra one, which is grade 8 and grade nine together. So, um, in order for us to recommend that they take algebra 1,
they will have had to have taken, uh, grade six pre-alggebra. In order to take grade seven pre-alggebra, they can take any of of the courses. And so, we're looking for the average of their Q1 and Q2. So, quarter 1 and quarter two
grades. We take an average of those. Uh, just FYI, we're looking for 85% or higher roughly. Uh, Il again, we're looking for a grade equivalency score. Um, your the letter is going to have page four of your letter actually has
all of this and explains exactly what the cuto offs are to get into grade seven pre-alggebra to be recommended for algebra 1. All of that is explained to you what the exact cut offs are. Uh, like NJSLA, we're looking for like a 740 to be in pre-alggebra, but just a 750 to
get into algebra 1. We didn't want to put too much weight on that. This is our first year trying these recommendations. So, we were pretty lenient. And then the Nagly area we're looking for happens to be an 84 um average on those. And again, it'll have the statement at the bottom of what is the appropriate course for
your child. And if you have a seventh grader going into eighth grade, your data is the classroom, what class they're currently taking because we can't recommend geometry if they haven't already taken algebra 1. So, the course that they're currently taking, we are looking for their average of Q1 and Q2. If they are currently in algebra 1, we
are also looking at their average on these quarterly assessments. It's on in power school. You can go in and look in. It's their X1 grade. The X1 is the average of the Q1 and Q2 uh quarterly. And then an ISL score and
then the NJSLA. No nagliary for grade seven going into eight. That grade hasn't taken the naglary. And again, you will have the recommendation at the bottom of the page. Your page four of your letter will look something like this. This is for the grade six, the kids going into grade six. I chose that
because it's usually the most people who attend this session are parents of fifth graders going into sixth grade. Um, so it looks exactly like your data page except I've given an explanation of what each of those cuto offs would
be. And then there's also links. So when I say midyear needs to be a 550 which is means fifth grade fifth month or higher in order to be recommended pre-alggebra you could also click on that link and that will take you to explanation of um
what the scores mean and then NJSLA same thing I've given you what the cuto offs are has to be a 750 or higher to be recommended for pre-alggebra you can click on that link and that's going to take you to the state's explanation of scoring And same for
Naglieri. I'm saying you have to have an 84 uh it means you're in the 84th percentile or higher uh above average as they consider it. And then uh you could click on neglair if you wanted more information about that. And so there's a similar page to this if you have a
seventh a sixth grader going into seventh grade or a seventh grader going into eighth grade. I don't want to spend this whole session getting into every score and every nuance and then you're going to have a million, you know, details you want to ask. Um, I don't want to I don't want to go off on a tangent.
I don't want to go off on a tangent in that way because really the focus here is not to obsess on each score. It's to understand how well your student is understanding math and if they're showing readiness to take certain courses. That's really what
this is about because you ultimately get to choose. We're just trying to provide information to help you make a good decision. So, you choose your child's math class. The course recommendation and data are there to help you understand your child's readiness. We, the math teachers, want students to
understand and retain the concepts in class to build a strong foundation for future math learning. This is our prime directive. This is that Star Trek thing I was talking about. More than anything else, this is what we want. We don't have a pony in the race of how
fast a student can get to algebra 1 or to geometry or algebra 2 or anything like that. We care if they are going to be successful when they are in those courses. And the best way we know for a student to be successful in algebra 1,
which is the keystone course that everything builds to and depends on is that before they take algebra 1, they are really strong in everything that came before it. I would say they should be really strong in grade seven math,
pre-alggebra, but grade seven depends on grade six, which depends on grade five, and so on and so on and so on. Right? I can make direct connections from everything in kindergarten and where it pays off when you're in middle school. That's a whole other workshop, but I could do it. Um, and we want to
avoid students repeating a class. We have provided that option to repeat a class because it's we feel it is a responsible thing to do uh to help students try again. But we'd like to avoid it because often when they do that repeating, they still
never go back and fix the earlier thing from an earlier grade that they never uh mastered. So we don't love that. It is there. Um but it is much better to move more slowly and to learn something correctly the first
time. It's much better than to have to learn it badly, unlearn it, and then try to learn it correctly. So remember that as you're choosing. Remember that algebra 1 is the keystone. Everything depends on it. Everything builds to it. You want your
child to be as ready as possible for algebra 1. And then when they're in it, you want them to be as successful as possible in algebra 1 because algebra 1 underlies success in geometry, algebra 2 physics and chemistry. And then algebra 2 underlies
success in pre-calculus and calculus. It's all about algebra 1. I don't know how often you're on social media. So often I will see someone post, well, I still haven't used algebra today. You know, someone will post that on not not someone I know, stranger. No
one I know would dare post that. Um, but a stranger will post that and I think, gee, you're only on social media which uses an algorithm to tell you what you're going to see. So you're actually using algebra 1 every day. But aside from that, um it's not that algebra 1 is
something you're going to be quizzed on on the street when you're 30 years old. It's not how it works. It's that math teaches you a way of thinking. And in order to reason at a high level, algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2,
pre-calculus, calculus, all of those are expanding our ability to reason. That is why we do it. It is like poetry. We don't learn poetry because we're going to be walking down the street and someone's going to ask us to speak anamic pentameter. Though I could do it, but
they don't. The reason we learn poetry is to expand how we see and understand the world. And that is the same thing of why we learn algebra 1 or any higher level math class. That's got kind of deep. All
right, last look. Um, just a reminder, these are the courses and these are the different paths and recommendations that you might see from us uh from moving from one year to the next. All right. So, Ann or somebody else can start reading me any Q&As's.
I'm not sure I can even see the Q&A. Let me go over to that screen. I I've been answering as we go along. So, um trying trying to keep up. I the big one was when will we be getting the recommendations and you should be getting them within the week the by the
end of the week. Um and once you get your recommendation it'll give you the directions as to how to um make your course selection. Um and you'll also get a hard copy in the mail. Just I want to make sure everybody gets their
recommendations. Is it also being uploaded into P school? Is that why you said also? Thank you. Okay. It'll also be in in power school hopefully by the end of the week. Um we we we are working on that you know today yesterday and
today. So spend a few hours on it today. I'm going to tell you it's it's a bear of a task but we're um another question I saw was when students will take the nagliary. It is taken in first grade, third grade and fifth grade. It started last uh spring
and they did the same grades did it again this fall. So, your current fifth graders will have negligary scores and the current sixth graders will have negliary scores from last year from spring of of 2024. So, um we're looking into in the future uh conducting the
negliary for the seventh grade, but that's still up in the air. Um but for for so currently it it's a first, third, and fifth. Perfect. Uh, what percentage of kids do the super accelerated path and succeed at it?
Well, that's two separate questions. Um, what percent has been taking it, which is the reason we've started, I'll be honest, this is why we're providing the data. Um, that super accelerated line of courses was designed
for about 10% of the students. It was designed for, you know, super high achievers. It was actually designed for gifted students if I'm honest. Um I'm saying that like 30 years ago that's what it was designed for and over time it became more expanded as there was more demand for it from community more
people wanted access to it and now it's wide open. So it really went from about 10% and then it moved to about 30% to now it's about 60% are choosing that and therein
lies the challenge um in that 60% of students are not mathematically ready or maturationally ready to be taking that
course. We have all kinds of things that teachers do to help students be successful. You can come during conference time. You can do, you know, you can retake your test. You can uh practice online and then come retake the test, right? We have all these different things that they can do in order to improve their score and it does improve their grade. So, it seems like they're
successful, but in fact, they are not retaining it over time. So 60% roughly are taking that highest uh level of courses all the way through there. Many are hitting a wall when they
get to high school. Um and honestly it's draining the teachers a a great deal in middle school. Um but it's even more frustrating the high school teachers because they're just are not they just don't have the background to be in the courses that they are in. I think
optimally I would say we could get 15 to 20% is probably who it's meant for. Uh we could probably get as high as like 20 to 30 with some kind of supports in place for that
uh line. Uh, I will say if your child needs a tutor to be able, if you put them in, let's say, grade six pre-alggebra and you hire a tutor because they can't keep up, they're in the wrong course. That's as blunt as I can be. They are in the wrong course if they
need a tutor in order to be successful. That means the math is going too fast for them to keep up. And there's nothing wrong with them. It's too fast for most humans. It has not meant the state and the nation did not write the standards putting all of that in one year. We put
all of that in one year because about 10% of the kids are really that's just right for them and that's about speed not just their ability to understand math but be able to do everything very quick. Um
so just know that most kids should not be moving at that rate. We do just because we have a a choice policy doesn't mean it's the right choice for everyone. It is a choice but it is not necessarily the
right choice. Okay. Um is it possible to see sample coursework for sixth grade math versus pre-alggebra? Um no. I mean, I'm sure you could the whole nation is learning the same
content in sixth grade and the same content in seventh grade. So, if you could pick up any standard textbook or any program or any online, like you could go to commonheats.com if you just wanted to see skills that are meant for sixth
grade or seventh grade and you could see the difference. Um the big difference is sixth grade finishes everything that has to do with decimals and fractions and um moves into things like percent and introduces the idea of ratio and just
really lightly touches on um simple equations, simple expressions and inequalities and equations. When you get into seventh grade, it's taking all of that and integers, negative numbers. when you get into seventh grade, instead of just introducing how much is
negative3 worth or so on, it it's sort of or comparing negative numbers because that's actually a big mindblower to kids, negative numbers. Um, teach it just refer to temperature. Um, but anyway, it is a mind-blower because the idea of subtracting negative
numbers, that's seventh grade. That's when it gets into those much more okay we expect you to now know all of this understanding conceptual understanding of negative numbers and now we need you to be able to use it in all different computational ways and the equations become um
multivariable in seventh grade as opposed to single variable it's harder [Music] um how do we set select courses in our letter we'll give you the stepbystep um
directions to pick your uh child's um math course. It's in power school. And um if you're a fifth grader going into sixth grade, you also have to choose like music or arts. You have to choose something else. Language. You have to choose language and maybe an arts
course. So you're going to go into power school and you're going to choose them all in the same place. It'll be math, arts, and language. Is there enrichment for accelerated students? students will receive enrichment no matter what path they are on if they if
they if they need um enrichment. And we usually we do go through our NJTSS um uh process for a um true enrichment plan, a a gap plan.
Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Just say there are clubs in both schools options for math competitions. um and also some different math clubs that are more recreational gaming mathy game things. Um so those are there also
as extensions but I have to say that the the courses the advanced courses move quickly and uh it's hard to keep up with the work for the course but we do have some kids who like to try some other things and yes we do we have because also everyone will still be in another
feature of we yes we have the assessment piece of it but there's this whole other piece that the assessment once it determines what's the right level for your child it says this is what your child knows and this is what they still need to work on and it provides individualized work for that child. So
that alone is an extension because it's matching to where the student is. Yes. Plus we have other things. Um what path best prepares kids to take the SATs by the end of junior year? Oh any of them.
Uh the SATs cover up to alge 2 and so if you take uh so the most deliberate the way the standards are written you would take algebra 1 in nth grade you take geometry in 10th grade you would take alge 2 in 11th grade all of those are prepare you
to take the SAT by the end of 11th grade that's not a problem yes um there's just a comment 60% that's nuts yes it is a bit um and I think it also you know we look we we've been
really studying our math data very carefully over the past few years and trying to see what are some of the things that um might not make us as successful as we want to be. Um, and you know, if you go back into some of our data presentations over the years,
you'll see that we have struggled as a district um, in many areas in math um, and mostly middle school and then into high school. And again, Kim has talked about the the algebra being being that keystone, right, to um the the the
foundation of advanced math and further um advanced meaning grades beyond um middle school. And one of the reasons why we really feel it's important to give you the data to make clear and informed decisions is
because we're noticing that our students are struggling in math and many 68% are taking that accelerated route and um might not necessarily be the best route for them. So how can we help parents? um we felt that we did not want to take the
option away because we don't want to hold back anyone who might um want to uh do take that accelerated route, but we do want we did want to make sure that the decisions were being made um with all the information in front of them.
You know your child the best. You know how they learn the best. You know their pace. You know their organization. Um, the other piece I want to add in, I don't know, I don't remember if Kim mentioned that transition from fifth grade to sixth grade is huge. They will be moving from one class to the next.
They will have a bunch of different teacher personalities that they are adjusting to just hormones in itself. I mean, all the middle school fun stuff that we all went through is still there. So um you you know you know your child
in that way maturitywise um but we have the data to help you and support you and and that is that's why we are giving you um that data to inform you and our recommendation based on the information that we have in front of
that we have from your student. I wanted to say go ahead Za you go first. I just wanted to add that we are also working with our STEM supervisor of 912 to add more ramps, add-on ramps later on, right? Like from 9th to 10th grade or 10th to 11th grade when students may be
more uh math mature if you will or they're ready they you know developmentally they they really grasp algebra 1 um like to Kim's point the strong foundation and now they're ready to move more between 9th and 10th or 10th and 11th. We're creating those
on-ramps as well with our STEM supervisor. So this way if it's they might not be ready at the middle school level which they're 10 11 12 right maybe at 14 15 that might be something that's possible. So um stay tuned for more information on how the on-ramps will be
added on to our high school platform when students may be more ready. I wanted to say two things from what I heard Ann and Zoa say. And one is um so my son graduated from Columbia High School last year, right? So I'm a a you know I'm not just a I'm not just a
supervisor. I'm also a customer. Um and and that is I love our middle schools. And I'm not just saying that. I'm saying that because they are really this precious time. So much more autonomy is expect is expected of the students in
sixth grade than from elementary school. Elementary school would just follow them around. You know, we just sort of nurture them wherever they go. Um and in middle school, so much more is expected of them. They have to move to so many different places at the building and in very short time and you know, they have to be responsible for all their papers
as they're moving all over the place, right? It's so much more is expected of them. But the sixth grade, and I feel very strongly about our sixth grade math teachers in particular, this sixth grade is so nurturing and supportive in that
process. Even with that, it is a hard transition for students. Even just learning like I have to go back to my locker, I have to use my locker. You like that's a whole new way of thinking, right? It's not just going to be in my desk. The teacher is not just going to hand me the materials I need. I'm going to be expected to bring it. Like, yeah, you're going to be expected to bring it,
right? So all of that is it's a big learning curve and they're going to spend some time at the beginning of the year working on it. But all of that takes a lot and even understanding that this kind of demeanor is expected when I'm in this room. It's a little bit different when I'm in this room and and
all of those are adjustments that they are making and it requires a lot of them emotionally, socially that they have never had to handle before. So I'm saying that just to know that it's not their life next year is not just about
math. It is not just about math. It is about so many things other than math. And so we want them to have a holistic experience. But I I love our middle schools. I cherish our middle schools. Like my son's in his first year of college now. And I am always just
referring back to things from middle school and elementary schools. It was so precious. Um the other thing I wanted to say, this is totally unrelated and definitely going a different direction. Um I noticed when Ann was talking about uh you know different performance measures
that that um as I was sharing these scores with the middle school math teachers and they're panicking a little bit at the recommendations um they like them in theory. They like making the cut offs. It's harder to to sort of see how it shakes out sometimes. But one of the anomalies that happened
is our students who are currently in seventh grade algebra 1, their scores were embarrassingly low. I don't know why, right? How could you be in algebra 1 right now, the middle of algebra 1. So that means in terms of
content you've learned, you'd learned sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, and now you're starting ninth grade. You're actually at this point, well, when they took the data, you they were already partly into ninth grade and you are scoring at a fourth grade level
in EXL. How is that happening? Right? Why are you scoring at fifth grade, sixth grade? I shouldn't be seeing anything below seventh grade in that list, right? And so, um, that's going to bump out a lot of people who were expecting, I'm in algebra 1 now and I'm
going to go right into geometry. Maybe you are, but your LL is sending off all kinds of red flares to me. Right? And so I don't know why that is. Some people say, "Oh, well maybe they just didn't try on the test." I'm like, "Well, then why are they in an accelerated course? Why is it we're putting a test in front of them and they're not trying?" I don't
understand that. Right? Like, if you're coming to this class, you try every day. You show up every day, right? That's what this class is. This class is no joke. Yes, we're the nicest people in the world, the middle school math department. I can't say that enough. We are the most accommodating department. Uh special ed is probably more
accommodating than we are. But other than special ed, the math department is the most supportive, wonderful, generous group of teachers you could ever hope to meet. But you can't learn geometry, high school geometry. If you're coming in
with fifth grade math only, it can't happen. There's too much in there, right? So maybe they just didn't try. I don't know. two rounds the beginning of the year and the middle of the year both times I didn't try I don't know I'm having trouble with it but the fact is it happened. So you might have one
anomalous score in your child's data uh printout right and you're like well that one score doesn't make sense. You can still choose the higher level course. We're not telling you not to choose it. We're just saying hey you know what if I saw that I would be in my kid's face so
fast of like what happened here right? if they passed the state test score, uh, if they met or exceeded the expectations for the state, they should be able to do just fine on. The LL is actually a little bit easier than the state test than the state test. So, I don't
understand what's going on there, but you bet I would be in on my kid's case about uh, if you're taking a test, you're doing your best because you don't know who's looking at it and it's always representing you, right? And I still talk to my kid that way, right?
that you teachers kid. Well, I don't know what to tell you. This is the pressure we put on. But I'm just saying that's a that's a life lesson also that they need. And I'd much rather they learned that life lesson in middle school than learned it in high school when colleges are looking at their
transcript. Right? Learn it now. Make your mistakes now when you're in middle school because in high school it has to be less forgiving because the colleges are going to be looking at everything you do. So that's my thing. I'd even say if they take eighth grade algebra 1 and they struggle, rather than moving on to
geometry in nth grade, take algebra 1 again in ninth grade, take algebra 1 again because if they get a decent grade in it, now you've helped their high school GPA, which is what matters when the colleges are looking. So 100%. And if you ever want to know how to uh look
at the course of studies or plan out what are the the sequence of courses you want your child to take, I'm happy to have that conversation with anybody because that was one of most tedious and yet enjoyable things I ever did for my child was beginning of eighth grade just laid out all the possibilities for his years and and ways to go. It's its own
skill. That's all I'm going to say. It took me a grown-up to to figure it all out. So just know that we're working on it. We're working on it. All right. Is Eureka math a sixth grade curriculum? It is not at this point. We are looking at new materials and that is one of the
materials we are looking at. Um it's difficult in the sense that Eureka has to be taught in the order essentially that Eureka is written and the middle school is used to or likes to teach things in their own order and so
they don't always like to follow any program page to page to page. Elementary loves to follow a program page to page to page because they're teaching so many different subjects. are happy to just follow what's expected. Middle school, they teach math all day. They they like to do math, right? You know, and so they
they like to think it through like they really get into the nuance of things. And so I'm not sure if we will choose Eureka. It is definitely one of our top two. Yes. And so next year we will have a brand new program for grade level six, grade level seven, and grade level eight
math programs. not the accelerated grade level um math. Uh can kids move classes mid year? For example, if they start in grade six pre-alggebra by October we and we know it's not working, can they move? Yes,
they can. They can move down. There's that's not a problem. Um I I don't believe we've set a cut off at the middle school of when they can do that. I think at the high school there's a limit on how long you can go in that. at the middle school. I think we allow it any time. Um it just know that it might
disrupt your child's schedule. So meaning to just move into another math class. There might not be another math class with an opening with an open space at that exact same time. And so we might have to change the rest of their schedule to make that work. So yes, they
can do it. We don't love to do it because they already might have missed things, but we would rather do that than make a child struggle for a full year in hate math. We do not want anyone to struggle for a full year in hate math. Okay.
Um, do we get a notification when this stuff is ready in P school? We just have to check. Our goal is to have it tomorrow, but I think um if it's not in tomorrow, it should be in by Friday. So I I if it's not in tomorrow, I just check back Friday afternoon. We're doing
this in the morning again. So we are not going to release it until after tomorrow's um meeting. So the earliest it will be is probably 4 o'clock tomorrow. Um and hopefully the latest is Friday afternoon. Yeah. Yes.
She's very optimistic, but yes, it definitely by Monday, but yeah, I think by the end of Friday, it's safe. We we can even send something out saying it's uploaded. That's true. We can send I think that's the best way to do it. We will send I will have um our director of
communications send an email out or a call out to our fifth, sixth, seventh grade parents just to say it's uploaded and in there so that you're you're not going back and forth over and over again. Uh let's see.
Um if your child starts in the accelerated math in sixth grade but finds it too challenging, can they move into the regular path and vice versa if you choose regular path but doing well and want to move into the more challenging? Can they switch to accelerated during the year? Right? So I
talked about moving into the um reg from an accelerated to regular course. Absolutely. We allow that at any time in the year to move from an a regular course into an accelerated course. If that change is going to happen, it really has to happen in the first two weeks because those accelerated courses
are moving so fast that it's like missing a couple of months if you wait more than a couple of weeks. And so, um, we can make that change. And there are times where we have, especially when we have a student who moves in from another state and we didn't know that
they already knew so much math and so then we'll make that change. There are times we do make that change to move them from like regular grade six to grade six pre-alggebra or grade seven pre-alggebra to algebra 1. There are times we do make that change. Um, but it's so much more difficult to make.
It's not something we that's where I always think of it as the hypocratic oath like do no harm. We don't we would rather have a student stay where they are and be successful. But if it is absolutely right to the child, if they are just blowing everything away in the course that they are in and they are
showing us on for example that their performance is way above the course that they have, then yes, we will have that conversation. It can happen. It's just much less frequent to move up because we have to be so careful when we do it.
Yes. Um, what happens if if it was recommended but they end up not being successful? Do they switch midyear or yes or do or the uh or do the other path
we saw starting seventh grade? So yes, they can they can m they can um change midyear. And just remember that recommended is just a recommendation. It's not picking your course for you the course for the child at all. Meaning the only time the course is actually chosen is when you go into P school and put it
in there. This data that we're running to mail merge into the letters that you're getting is not in P school, right? We have it running in a completely se very large spreadsheet. Um and so it's not in P school. The only way school knows what course your child
is taking is when you go in and make a choice. Um will the slides be shared? Yes. And this is being recorded and it'll be put up on the on the website so you can watch through this all over again. Thank you.
Um, is there a reason why current teachers aren't involved in the recommendation process? Well, the teachers were involved in um setting the cuto offs. The reason we don't involve teachers in general in making a verbal
recommendation, and you're welcome to call your child's teacher at any time and ask what they think, right? You can have that conversation. We don't put a formal recommendation from each teacher because um I know this might surprise you, but teachers are humans and with
being human comes um things that influence human decision- making. And so they don't want to have to tell you that your child shouldn't go into an accelerated course. They really don't want to have to tell you that, especially if they know it's going to
make their jobs very hard to do. So we try to protect them from um being held to that and instead we have taken this data approach but teachers already know that they can say look I've looked at the data and I think your child can
still do that higher level course right there are times we are absolutely going to encourage students to try the higher level course uh it because the teacher knows it's like yes okay their state test scores aren't good but their classroom performance is stellar Right.
Well, classroom performance is going to determine a lot of whether you're successful in that course. So, we put a lot of weight on that. And so, there will be times where you can absolutely that teachers will uh assertively contact the parents and make that recommendation. And there's also any
parent can reach out to any teacher, send them an email asking um how they you know, do they think that the um the district recommendation is accurate or would they recommend something different? you can ask them.
Um, you said 60% are doing advanced math now. What percent of incoming sixth six sixth graders did you recommend for advanced math this year using the new system? I forget. We looked at 20 20. Yeah, I think it was it 66. No, it might
have been like 10 to 12% maybe. I I don't know. It's 20 15 or 20 is what it was. which which was which was very similar to other districts in in our area. Yes, that's right. We went and we looked at what other districts are eating our Milbours and our Livingstons
and West Oranges. And I felt really good about that because we literally chose the data cutoff scores based on what we were seeing from our students. We didn't go and look at what the other schools were doing. We're like, what do we believe is pedagogically accurate here? Right? That's what we went for. and that
happened to give us the results that matched what other districts are and matched really how the courses were more designed who the the target audience was for for those courses to begin with. So I was like well look at us.
Do you have any data on how many kids start accelerated and then move down? No. I always ask Lewis Brown this question. He's assistant principal of Maplewood Middle. Um in It is not strange for anyone to move down,
but it isn't like it's not I don't even think it's 10% that move down. It doesn't mean that more than 10% we advise to move down, but only about 10% actually make the move.
And let's see. I'm not there was a there was a question about a formula and I I see that you're writing. So it says and Kim maybe you mentioned something early on. It says something like it started with will the math teacher provide the
formula for the students and then it's the algebra formula. I'm wondering if it's the cut offs that um we have the letter coming home will list
what the cut offs were that so the letter is too it's specifically addressed to the parents and student it's there and I have to tell you the teachers are very worried about students seeing like a student who's current currently in algebra 1 to see that they're not recommended for geometry
they're worried that they're going to be crustfallen Um, so be careful as you share that. Um, ultimately it's your choice anyway. So you can decide whether they even need to to see that or not. That's up to you
actually. Uh, but teachers are very worried about that. Um, which I get, but I don't know how else to share this information. I don't want to keep it from the kids. You know, all of that. I need to be transparent, but at the same time, not everybody wants to see
everything when it is transparent. It's not always great news, but again, it's just based on data. And if they know why they didn't do well in a certain assessment, let's say, whatever, then um then they'll know it's not a reflection of who you are. You know, you
can always have the conversation with the teacher. They can talk to their teacher. Do they think this is right for me or should I try it? And the teacher will be very direct about what math they know and what math they don't know and what math they need to know in order to be ready for that next course. Yeah. And
Mr. Newion, if you want to, please reach out to Kim. She'll give you a much if if we we didn't answer your um question about the formula, the algebra formula, please reach out to Kim and she will talk you through it or you know have a dialogue about it. You can do through
email or um give her a call. But email's probably the best way to to to get in touch with her because she goes to all different buildings. Um there's she's not really set in one place. Okay, Kim, that seems to be the last
question. Fantastic. All right. Well, if you loved this so much, please come again tomorrow morning. You get to see it all over again, but I'll probably have a smoothie. Um All right. So, thank you very much for coming. All of this works because you are involved and you care
and uh we're doing our best over here and it's your support that really helps us be successful. So we thank you very much for that and um have a great evening. Yes, thank you everyone. This will be on the district website also so
that you can go at your own pace.