This government meeting is brought to you by Eastworks and our local cable subscribers. I'm >> going to call to order the meeting of the Southampton Select Board for March 17th, 2026 at about 6:02. Um, we will
have Finn come, but you don't have a quorum yet. So, we'll wait until you have everybody here. So, with that, let's uh stand and say the pledge of allegiance, please. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, good. All right. Um, would somebody mind grabbing me that paper over there? Thanks.
Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks very much. Okay. All righty. Okay. We're going to obviously work on our budget hearing a little bit tonight, but before that, we have people that have signed in for citizen speak. Um, normally we reserve that for things that
are not on the agenda. However, obviously, we would like to have people speak that are here tonight. And so, we're not going to stick to that rule that may have been written on some agenda that's been there forever and ever. So, basically, we're going to open it up for people that want to be here to speak. Uh, I'm assuming related to our
our budget situation. And what I'm going to do is just go down in order and I'm going to take residents first and then I'll come back to the non-residents. Okay. So I'm just going to go in order. We'll have about a threem minute period each and hopefully we'll get through in about 20 minutes. Okay.
>> Thereabouts. And so I'll let somebody be timekeeper more or less. But try to uh be succinct. Come on up to the mic and introduce yourselves. And uh Kimshot you are first up. And I would ask that you know if if you've heard something that somebody has
said and you were going to say the same thing you might just say okay it's been covered and maybe I don't need to s talk but take it there. Go. Yes, please. >> Okay. Hi. So I'm Kimsh shot. I have lived in Southampton for almost 27 years and I'm here tonight as a concerned
resident taxpayer and voter. We are as a community facing a decision about the kind of town we want Southampton to be. Do we want emergency services to reach us in time to make a life-saving difference? Do we want our older residents to have the resources they
need that a properly funded Council on Aging provides? Do we want the highway department to have the staff and equipment to handle our winter roads? I urge the select board to put forward a budget at town meeting that adequately funds all towns.
I realize that such such a budget requires more money than the town can raise without a two and a half override. I will vote in favor of a two and a half override because living in a town that provides the services that I just mentioned and more matters a lot to me.
As the mother of two children who attended Norris and graduated from Hampshire Regional and as a former elementary school teacher, the school in our town the schools in our town are important to me too. I recently heard someone say that they can't believe that removing five to nine
employees from Norris is going to be as devastating as people say. I am concerned that other people in town may be thinking the same thing. So I want to address it with a couple of examples. 50 plus years ago when I was in elementary school, there was an ad
campaign with the tagline reading is fundamental. That was true 50 years ago and it's true today. Though I would update that tagline to say reading and math are fundamental. Elementary school is where children acquire the foundational knowledge they
need for future success in school and in life. Cutting over $600,000 from the Norris budget for the current school year means that 30 children are no longer receiving math support because math intervention was eliminated.
If an override fails this year, another $500,000 will be cut from the Norris budget and both reading specialist positions will be eliminated. That means that next year more than 50 children will not receive the extra reading
support they need to develop this fundamental skill. Based on these two examples totaling 2.8 and eight positions. I hope you can see that removing five to nine employees would make a difference and has the
potential to be devastating for a lot of children. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Very good. All right. Next up, and well well done on time. You must have been uh practicing that. Uh
next up, Margaret Larson. >> Hi everyone. and I'm Margaret and I'm speaking as a 20-year resident of Southampton. I know many people here will speak eloquently about restorative funding for the Norris School, which I support, but I'd like to focus on the need for a single budget vote at town meeting and a single ballot override
question. Over the past decade, I've been hearing a lot more but statements when it comes to town services. Yes, I support public safety services, but our children are more important. I understand it helps property values if we have an excellent school system, but I don't have children in the school.
Sure, it's great to have a library, but our roads need to be cleared. Or at the Hampshire Regional School Committee budget meeting last night, I support education, but let's focus only on the high school and let the elementary schools figure it out, and so on. With this upcoming election, I believe it's
time to flip the script and start using and statements. I want our kids to have a great education and I want an appropriately funded fire department. Our senior population is important and so are our young ones. Great schools increase property values and our police
force keeps our crime rate low. I don't think I'm naive to say all these can be true at once. When my own child was at Norris, I took great comfort in knowing she was receiving a great education and that her roads were plowed so she could get to school and the police and fire departments were prepared in case of an
emergency. If we separate the override questions by department, it creates conflict between those departments and only affirms the belief that we can look at each one in isolation as if they don't often work handinand glove. This particularly goes for Norris and Hampshire Regional as education should
be a continuous experience that meets the needs of every student at every grade level. Separating the HRHS budget from the rest of the departments at town meeting signals a lack of support for our older students and unnecessarily alienates the other towns in our um district. I'd also like to say a word
about adding capital funding to the override question. Although I understand that capital monies are kept in the stabilization fund that's separate from operating expenses, I dare say the vast majority of our residents don't know this and don't particularly care. For them, it's a distinction without a
difference. Our tax dollars pay for salaries and they pay for capital improvements. Separating the capital asks from department asks ignores how intertwined the two actually are. We can't have proper highway services with equipment that's decades old. We can't safely have kids in a school with trip
hazards and crumbling masonry. We can't have functioning public safety services without functioning vehicles. And conversely, what's the use of having upgraded fire equipment if we're going to decimate our firefighting staff? Having a separate override question belies the symbiotic importance of
capital funding to our town services. I know we're all desperately concerned about the future of Southampton if this override doesn't pass. But we need to have confidence that we can tell the story of a full funded town, fully funded town and tell it well. The people in this room are a testament to that. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks. Very good, Jen Johnson. I will not be as eloquent as my two previous um speakers. It's just not how I go. Um so they did say a few of the things that I wanted to say. Um but I just wanted to
hit a couple other points. Um a lot of people might not know if you don't have school uh aged children or grandchildren what cuts actually did happen at Norris last year. And I know the consensus and thought process is they didn't actually happen. and they figured it out and none
of that actually happened. But I just want to remind everyone that we lost a kindergarten teacher which put the kindergartens from four classes to three classes, increasing class size at a age where class size is utterly the most important thing for them to get the quality of education
they need. We lost a first grade class teacher doing the exact same thing. We lost an art teacher. And I know I've said this multiple times, but I have a seven-year-old that is outside in the hallway that was asked to do a um a poster. Um what do they call it?
No. Uh a persuasive poster. His pers persuasive poster. I don't know what the other kids in his class said. His was how to bring art class back and offered up his own money. So to say that these positions that someone has quoted already that five to nine employees
being not devastating from the elementary school level is absolutely disgraceful to hear from an elected official. Um who is in charge or somewhat in charge of the money in this town. Um
we also lost like my previous people said all of the math interventionist paraprofessionals half of a nurse. um reading specialist, uh administrative assistant, occupational therapist, all of these things that help
support these kids to grow to then get to the level where they can go to the high school and be successful and then from then on. Okay. So, I also was at the the meeting last night and I hope that the decisions made
for the Hampshire Regional increasing their budget very minimally from what was originally proposed to again help save core services is not going to directly impact the potential to push through for us to try to put Norris's
budget back to restoration. We can't keep pitting one against the other. And unfortunately, we don't have the control over that budget that we have over this budget. And that's a broken system. I think that's needs fixed on another day. But I also would like to call attention
to a few things that I looked up at the Mass General Law and bills that are currently in the legislature. one being making the LOL, it's bill H4297, which would make art a core education requirement and take a mandated percentage of chapter 70 funds to fund
uh arts programs in all schools K to2 in Massachusetts. Um there is another bill that promotes it's S338 legislation to promote highquality comprehensive lit literary instruction in all Massachusetts schools. If we're
cutting reading specialists, we are not delivering a high quality literacy instruction to our kids. Um, another one again is for school library standards and having certain requirements that have to be met for library standards. We
can't keep making cuts and then be like, well, we don't know what to do. It has to come from everywhere. And I don't think that cutting positions that are not currently people, like unfulfilled positions in the town, is the same as cutting bodies from a school. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. All right. Uh, next up, Joanne Griffin. >> Mine is not budget related. Am I still allowed to? It's your choice. >> Sure, why not? You're here. >> I just wanted to bring up the code red
alert again. I have heard nothing why we're not getting them and just wanted to see if that could be addressed at some point. I think it showed at the last town meeting we had there were about 86 people there and people I saw afterwards said we didn't know. So it's
such an important time coming up. I I think it's worth looking at. I I've never had an answer as to what happened to it. >> Okay, >> that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Janet Kane. Good evening. I'm Janet Kane, Glendale
Road. I've been a resident in town for uh 18 years. And full disclosure, I'm the chair of the senior center building committee along with the vice chair of the COA board. But that's not why I'm here tonight. Not tonight. My first career at a tender age of 23 was
teaching. I was a member of the union, even went through a difficult strike. I appreciate and support the needs of our school district. Today, a half a century later, I am speaking not as a volunteer on any boards, but as a homeowner, and taxpayer in Southampton.
Not as a former teacher either. I believe as a community, we should support our schools without decimating our fire, police, highway, library, senior center, and so on. We all need and depend on those departments as well. So, I'm asking the select board, please don't separate the override and pit
department against department. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I'd like to allocate the remainder of my time. Okay. Next up, Francine and Tishman. Francine Tishman. I too have lived in
Southampton for 18 years. I live on Glendale Road. We moved here for and over the course of those years I served on the finance committee for six years, the select board for five years and I continue as a member of the bylaws advisory committee. For 17 of those 18
years our property tax increases have been capped at two and a half% with only one override. To me, this is remarkable considering my experience in other communities in which I lived. As any consumer knows, the annual cost of living and the cost of running the town
has always increased above the 2 and a.5% cap. Estimates show that over the last 10 years, the costs have gone up an average of 3.1% a year. These continual annual revenue short call shortfalls in our town have accumulated over the years
and periodically an adjustment is needed to keep us whole. And this is a critical year that requires an increase in revenue in order to maintain services at the current level. I am in support of all the the departments receiving the resources needed to maintain level
services from the schools, the library, fire, police, highway, accounting, and senior center. And the list goes on. As a consumer and taxpayer, I recognize that all departments are interdependent and together they support the population of the town in totality. For that
reason, I am asking that you do not split the override vote. Each and every department performs an essential function that keeps our community safe, whole, and viable. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Kelly Lee. >> Hi, I'm Kelly Lee. um live on do I have to say where I live? 229 Brickyard Road. I don't I feel like that's what I'm supposed to do. Um I'm here um as a mom. Um I have three three young children. Um two are in Norris currently. Um am also
a nurse and a resident and taxpayer. Um so I am kind of bringing up also keeping the vote a single vote. Um, so I reached out to our senior center director, Kate, and I was asking her what her budget is looking like, how what the impact would
be to that if the override doesn't pass. And um, we chatted about that and kind of are really hoping to come together with all of the different departments and figure out what it means for them and what they will lose. So my little speech will be about the Council on
Aging. Um, so in my opinion, a strong strong community invests in every generation. our children in schools and our seniors at home. The fiscal year 27 budget override is critical to ensure that both our schools and our council on aging continue to serve our residents effectively. Our schools rely on this
funding to maintain class sizes, retain teachers, support special education, and preserve academic and extracurricular programs that prepare students for the future. At the same time, the Council on Aging provides services that allow older adults to live independently and safely, including transportation, meals,
wellness programs, social services, and outreach for isolated seniors. Um, many of these programs are lifelines. I know that there was a grant for the outreach director at the senior center, and that is something that could possibly be lost if the overhead doesn't pass. Um, the
need for both is growing. In Southampton, more than one in five residents are aged 65 or older, while student enrollment continues to demand quality education. Both generations deserve strong community investment. In 2025, participation at the senior center increased by more than 20% with 70 new
members joining. 865 Wednesday lunches were distributed through the Highland Valley Elder Services. Seniors took 1,264 trips on the FRTA van, which also is in need of a driver, and that would be something that would be lost. Um,
volunteers contributed over 3,220 hours, carrying a significant portion of the work that keeps programs running. The Triad program, which I just learned about, um, is a partnership with local police that helps seniors say stay safe with equipment lending, sand for icy
walkways, lock boxes, and reflective house numbers for first responders. We do not yet have the full picture of the financial impacts, but as Kate, the senior center director, states, um the impact would be critical just as it would for our schools. Um without the override cuts would reduce the
transportation, meal services, and wellness programs. Um at the school, the cuts would reduce teachers, class sizes, and programs vital for student success. Even small reductions for both have serious consequences. Investing in both schools and the council on aging is fiscally responsible and beneficial to
our community as a whole. Strong schools build our community's future while strong senior services help prevent increased hospitalizations and just poor outcomes that involve our emergency departments, police departments, and fire. Um, in fiscal 20, the fiscal year 27 over ensures that every generation,
our children and our seniors continue to receive the services they rely on, preserving opportunity, independence, and quality of life, which is essential for the strength of our entire community. That's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Jessica McConnell.
>> Hello. I'm Jessica McConnell, 24 High Street. I am the co-chair of the library board of trustees. I sent an email to the select board. Um, I just want to get some clarification. Um, as mentioned in our email, we are more than happy to make a reduction to the budget in the
amount of that position, but we need to maintain our children's librarian. They are our assistant director. um they need to be highly highly qualified. Our last three directors, Andrea Clair is currently our intern. Johanna Douglas,
Barbara Golden were all originally children's librarians at Edwards Public Library. They all have master's degrees. That position needs to be maintained. Without that position, if the director is not there, we have nobody that's fully in charge of the library. Andrea,
when she was in the children's librarian position over the last three years, has received grants totaling $20,500. So that position doesn't just check out books to children and read stories. They fill an essential part of our library.
Our director does not have time to do that kind of work. Our budget, as it's funded by the town, covers our uh personnel, our building, maintenance, and utilities. All of our programs and half of our books or more than half of our books
are funding for our books. Some of it comes from the town and the rest is also through donation as well. Correct. >> We get the some we get the full materials the the the minimum >> minimum we need from for state certification from >> correct. So we we get a large portion of
our budget through donation. All we're asking is we need to maintain that children's library. And without it, we can't we just can't function. And if if the override doesn't if the override fails, we're going to lose that anyway. But it should we should be able to maintain that without the override,
especially if things go wrong at Norris. Last time the budget was cut at Norris, our library went to Norris Elementary on a weekly basis and helped fill that position that had gotten cut at Norris. We cannot help Norris if we don't have the staff ourselves. So, we're serving
more than one position in the community. We also need to maintain a certain number of hours, which we can't do without staffing. So, can you clarify who has control over our budget as far as where the cuts are made? Is that you deciding to cut a position or do we get
to cut money from our budget and maintain that position? >> We're not going to have question answer tonight. Okay. >> Any >> It'll come up during our discussions, I'm sure. >> Anything I missed? >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Ashley Stone.
>> Good evening. My name is Ashley Stone. My family and I moved to Southampton in 2019. Southampton is where I purchased my first home, had my first child, and I even married my sweet husband right in our backyard in the middle of the pandemic. Southampton is our home, and
although it is not perfect, I often find myself pleasantly surprised by the benefits of small town life. The very first night we moved into our home, it hadn't been occupied for several months beforehand, and my husband got up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, but because we had just moved in, we
didn't have blinds. So, he used his cell phone flashlight to navigate through the home. Before he even made it back to our bedroom, Southampton PD was at our door because concerned neighbors noticed a suspicious flashlight moving through our house, and the PD decided that was a
worthwhile concern and showed up to check on it. Some people might not think that that adds a lot of value, but as someone who grew up in a city where neighbors don't always call when an emergency is taking place right outside and where the police don't respond unless there is something really severe like gunshots, knowing that our
neighbors are looking out and the police are highly responsive to resident concerns gave us an immense sense of safety. Not passing the two and a half override could result in cuts to our police department, which have the potential to significantly reduce our community safety. When our daughter entered the public school system, which
we were very grateful to be able to take advantage of Norris's preschool program, our friends from larger cities teased that we would be burdened with an immense amount of snow days because living in such a small town, given the difficulties that underly serving community that is more rural and
includes a mix of paved and gravel roads, that means more snow days. Although we're not obviously immune to that, I have not experienced an excessive amount of 2-hour delays or snow days in comparison to friends that are living in nearby towns. And as a West Coast transplant who drives an
older model Honda Civic, I am always grateful that the roads are so well treated because I cannot navigate them without that. Our highway department accomplishes all of that with a fleet of 18 trucks and heavy equipment, of which 11 are older than the 12-year useful
lifespan of equipment, and with a department that has contracted over time, not expanded in line with our population. Without an override, the highway department may not have funding necessary to support some of their key functions, never mind the more proactive projects like landscaping town hall and
maintaining the athletic fields and playgrounds. As the mom of a child at Norris, I could speak for hours about my concerns around the impacts of the school if we don't pass an override. The loss of so many positions would be catastrophic and felt at every level of the school, including the children. Just
reading through the list of positions and services on the chopping block makes me feel sick and ashamed, but not nearly as sick and anxious as I feel or would feel if this vote gets separated out. I'm here to urge you to push forward the override as a single question vote. There are so many of our town's core
services that will inevitably be be impacted without an override, and we should not be forced to pit one service against another. It's time to plan for Southampton's future and take steps to make the systemic changes needed at state and federal levels to better fund rural towns like ours. But we cannot do
it as a fractured town that has been taken out by infighting and fingerpointing. This is our time to come together. Please do not force us apart. Thank you. Tammy Wunis Tammy Wunis 298 College Highway been
living here for 35 years and the CPA has always been an active part of our community. um the community preservation act and I know at one time at an annual town meeting there
was a proposal of getting rid of it completely. I'm not proposing that. I would like to know is it possible for this year to take those funds that would normally go
into the three different categories for CPC and take that money and apply it to our budget. It's a lot of money. Is it something that we can do a a
partition and and put it onto the as an article on the annual town meeting? If so, what do we need to do? But we have funds that that we're already taking from families
that could really be used towards our our schools and our other departments. It's a lot there and I would think that for one year we might be able to do that.
>> Thank you. All right, >> Jeff Boater. >> I think I'm going to yield my time because I was not going to talk about budget. >> Okay. Thank you very much, >> Robert Floyd. >> I signed that sheet, Madam Chair, eagerly thinking it was an attendance sheet. So,
>> okay. We have two non-residents who signed up. I'm going to allow them to speak. Lauren Ames. >> Hello. >> Good evening. I'm Lauren Ames. I'm co-president of the Southampton Teachers Association and a Norris educator. I've taught kindergarten, first, and second
grade over the last 16 years. I'm going to read a letter tonight. Dear Southampton Select Board and community members, we are writing to you as members of the Southampton Teachers Association, but more importantly, as the educators who work with your children every day. We care deeply about
our students, our school, and the future of our town. At this critical moment, we want to share openly and honestly about the urgent need to fully fund our school. Last year, Norris School faced significant budget cuts that have already had a direct and lasting impact
on students and staff. These reductions were not simply numbers on a budget sheet. They drastically changed the daily experience of children in our classrooms. Due to last year's cuts, one kindergarten classroom was eliminated. One first grade classroom was eliminated. The art teacher position was
eliminated. Math intervention was eliminated. Two paraprofessional positions were eliminated. One school nurse was reduced to halfime. One administrative assistant was reduced to half time. Reading interventionist hours were reduced. Occupational therapy and speech and language were reduced. There
is currently no teacher supply budget money. Even with these significant reductions, teachers and staff have worked tirelessly to maintain the highquality education that Southampton families expect and deserve. However, the system is already stretched to its
limits. On Monday, March 9th, the staff at Norris were made aware that the school district was facing an additional $500,000 in cuts simply to meet a level service budget. If an override does not pass,
this would mean more devastating cuts next year. The assistant principal will be eliminated. All reading intervention will be eliminated. Two more paraprofessionals will be eliminated. The existing half-time nurse will be
eliminated. The existing half-time administrative assistant will be eliminated. One custodian will be reduced. Paraprofessional support and preschool will be drastically reduced. Occupational therapy will be further reduced. Speech and language services will be further reduced. We will
continue to have no budget for classroom supplies. These reductions will negatively impact all students. Southampton is a community that should value education. Our school plays a vital role in the strength and vibrancy of our town. As educators, we see every
day how important manageable class sizes are. Student support services and adequate resources for learning. When these resources are reduced, students feel the effects. We share this information to ensure that our community
understands the real impact school funding decisions have inside of our classrooms. This override is essential for maintaining the quality of education that our students deserve. We are proud to teach in Southampton and grateful to
be part of a community that cares about its children. Thank you for taking the time to listen and support the students of Southampton. Sincerely, the Southampton Teachers Association. >> Thank you very much. and
>> I thought it was an attendance sheet, too. >> Oh, Andrea. >> Um, I I do know that uh a citizen came in after you collected the sheet who's a resident who would like to speak. >> Okay. >> So, if there's anybody else. >> Yeah. Come on up. Sorry.
>> What's your name? Sorry. >> Austin Rogers. >> Good evening. Austin Rogers, 7 Old Harvest Road. Uh, I'm a resident in town. I have previously served on the local school committee board. Um, and uh, I haven't made it a habit in my life
to be popular or to do what everyone else is doing. And tonight will be no different. Um, because I do support splitting the override question. Uh, not because I personally think that's a good idea. I'm probably going to vote for all the items um, no matter what because I
agree with everyone in this room uh, that all of the services are important. All the services deserve to be fully funded. But I think that there's a pessimism in our town and towns across America
that uh governments are mismanaging money. I don't think that that's wellounded, especially in our town. I've sat through meetings and and looked at uh meetings online where, you know, you go through the budget and there's no fat to trim anymore. We're just cutting
people now. Um, so I don't agree with that pessimism. I think it's wrong, but it's there. Uh, and so when we say, you know, splitting the the the override into multiple questions is pitting the
departments against each other. We're engaging in the same pessimism as some of those people that don't understand the budget situation. And I think that that is it's wrong to ask for trust and not give trust. So when we're not splitting the question, we're not
trusting the citizens of this town to make the choice that's going to serve all of the departments and um and have that cohesion and uh you know to say that it's all or nothing is like if a boat were sinking and we say either
everyone gets off the boat or everyone drowns and I don't think that's a good idea. I think if we only have the choice to save something, you save the kids first. And so if there's a way to split off um the regional and the local budget from the rest in the in the override
question, I think that that is putting trust out to the citizens and it's saying we trust you to make the right decision. Uh if everyone in this room has the same vote as the the rest of our citizens, then we'll have no issue. Um,
but I think we need to be realistic and acknowledge that there are hundreds of people that have voted against overrides in the past that are all in and we risk that happening again. And I don't think that we should run that scenario again at the expense of the
children considering what's at stake. Um, and that's unfortunate, but I think we've we've done it enough times that we know what's going to happen uh if we do that. And um you know I don't want to pit all of the departments against the
schools either. I think having an all-in all or nothing black and white question is going to do that. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Good. Thank you everyone. I think we're at the end. >> Okay.
>> Is it possible to submit written comments? >> You certainly can. Yes. Thank you. We need to get on to the actual business. So we've gone over a little bit longer than I had planned on the open time for the public. So, we'd like to continue with our our basic business. We'll get a few items on the agenda first. Yes, sir.
>> Could read. >> Oh, yes. You have a quorum. If you didn't come, please call yourselves to order. I'm sorry. >> Sorry about that. >> Called to order at 637. >> Okay. >> Very good. Thank you. So, we're going to just go down through the um the agenda. We'll be getting down to the um the
budget question, which I'm sure many of you will be hanging around for here, but let's go through some of the basics. Um, we have one resignation on the docket. Uh, >> motion to accept the resignation from the culture council effective March 12th, 2026. >> Okay.
>> A second. All right. Any discussion? If not, all those in favor? >> I >> I Okay. Motion accepted. Thank you. Um, town administrator, do we have any other reports that you'd like to share? >> I'll probably wait till budget health insurance.
>> Okay. All right. Select board. Any other minutes from notes you have from meetings you have attended >> with Kong the conservation commission last night attended that and the uh notific street project uh the blue wave um
battery energy solar um project was put off until again until um their next meeting which will be April 6th. >> Um >> so that hearing is continued. >> It's continued to April 6th. >> All right. All right. Anything else? Stephen, anything?
>> Um, too much probably. Uh, which one do you want me to share? No, I think the topic tonight is the budget. So, let's move along. >> All right, John. >> Just that they're both budget related.
Since our last meeting, Norris has Norris School Committee has passed their budget and Hampshire Regional finalized their budget last night, which um was a slight increase of $110,000 or roughly $60,000 to Southampton.
>> Okay. Thank you. All right. From my end, uh main work is on the uh on a grant proposal that we're working on for the Echo Onetop program. Uh and this is related actually to Norris uh and the senior center. Uh there have been some surveys out to look at how heat issues
affect elders as well as kids and athletes in particular. So working with Norris and SYAa and Senior Center, uh we've been looking at ways to think about improving certain facilities at Norris, which would be looking at possibility of doing some HVAC
improvements in at least the cafeterium perhaps. Uh there's been a feasibility study done on that and now it would be to take it to a next level. It wouldn't be any installation, no construction yet. It's everything in these grant things is very very slow in that regard, but it would be trying to get it from
the feasibility study to a more engineering look at at what would be necessary if we could do something like that. Uh and then secondly would be to improve the what's called kind of a heat island which is on the outside of Norris out on the back uh play areas and
especially around the back side of the school where you're all waiting to pick up kids uh on a hot summer day, hot spring day, whatever. Um so we're looking at possible ways to alleviate some of that. So there's a grant possibility for that. So, we've been working um on that as the grant committee working with uh both the COA
and the school and the SYA and we'll be putting in an application if the portal allows us to get into it um hopefully by Friday. The deadline is Friday and it's just uh you know it it takes months to figure out if you ever get a grant, but just know that's what we're working on. So, okay, new business. We have a one
thing and and maybe Stephen, you might have a better clue on this than any of us do. I don't know. As a water commissioner, we have a a letter from the water commissioners um that I believe we must need. >> Skip that one. Uh yeah, you can take that off the agenda. >> Oh, it's off. Okay. All right. They they
didn't do that. Okay. >> We'd be happy to talk about you talk about it with you, but it's an evolving situ. >> Okay. All right. I thought that was ready for for bid opening. Okay. >> No, no, it's a FYI. >> Oh, okay. Yep. All right. So, forget
that one. Um, and then next thing up the uh Scott, we need to I believe we need to open the warrant for the town meeting. So, the annual town meeting is May 2nd. >> Second. Yep. >> And we need to open the warrant. So, I'll take a motion to open the warrant. >> Anybody? >> I move to open the warrant for annual
town meeting 2026 May 2nd. >> All right. >> And to instruct the constables to go forth and herald the voters. >> We'll open the warrant. Uh, and we have a second. Yes. All right. Second. All right. U, do you have a deadline, Scott,
when you want to close that warrant? Do we get a give an idea of the timing on that? >> Is this the same as call for articles? >> Yeah, this is basically calling for articles. So, >> yeah, I would like to get everything done by April 1st. >> April 1st. >> Yeah. I've already publicized that to all the boards and commissioners. >> Okay. All right. So, we have a motion on the floor to open the warrant as of
today. >> All right. So the call for articles would be the point where the citizens could put in an article to reduce the CPA search charge from 3 to one. >> They could put in so if they wanted to do that. >> So the call for articles will be open from now over the next couple of weeks
until April 1st. Okay. All right. All those in favor >> I >> I >> All right. It is so declared. Okay. Let us get into the FY27 budget. And Scott, I'm going to kind of turn it over to you to drive us through
this in terms of the figures that I know you've been working on with the various departments and see where things are landing at the moment. Um, and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but this would be looking at the and an override budget first. Is that right?
>> Mhm. >> Um, so similarly with the last meeting I went over my proposed budget. Um, I guess the biggest question is, you know, how much is the override going to be if you fully restore uh Norris's budget at
the $750,000 plus, including the cuts that I've already made to the the budget that I proposed, uh, the override would have to be $2,162. at the 8% and this also includes the additional $60,000 from Hampshire Regional, the
override would have to be $1,786,000. Now, we had a lot of discussions over the last couple weeks during the budget task force on, you know, what is a number that both meets our needs but also would be able to uh pass at the ballot box. And I, you know, no one has
a crystal ball on that. um you don't want to end up like Hadley where they proposed a $2.5 million plus budget and now they're it's ongoing even now they're they're looking for a $ 1.5 million uh budget after all their cuts. Um
we we f we thought on the budget task force that you know we wanted to keep it around the $1.8 million budget. We definitely didn't want to go over $2 million. Um, but when you look at the actual numbers, you know, looking at adding to 1.7, you know, might be
reasonable because it does get us a lot of value for the money. We could restore a little bit more to Norris over the 8% that was proposed. It wouldn't be a full restorative budget. We could do a few things that the town has already cut like the like the library children's um
>> children's library >> children's librarian you know that that's a little bit um >> so I I guess you know the question to board is what what is a a override number that would accomplish
what we need to but also has the potential of being approved by the voters. >> Okay. And what is the 376 figure there? Okay. >> Um I'm sorry. That's the um that's my number for the fully
restorative um Norris budget over what I proposed. So I added that in. So we'd now be in a deficit of 376. We'd have to adjust the override number. >> Oh, because you'd already prepared the budget, the override budget and override budget at 1.7. Correct.
>> So the the right here is the override number. So, we would have to increase that to the 2.16. >> Okay. Got it. >> Are we are we going to take this in chunks or are we going to listen? >> No. No. How would you like to proceed, folks? Um, >> well, I have a lot of questions. >> Yeah. Okay. And I know Tom, you probably
do, too. So, how would Stephen, you got a question first? Well, at the last meeting, I asked for Scott to go back and show one of his slides, and we didn't actually get there, but I thought it was really important to set the context that we're not only in crisis
this year, but we can foresee that we will remain in crisis in out years. And I know that if after 20 years of failure, we win an override, voters will expect us to wait another 20
years. And so if we look at the growth in the school budgets and the 2.5% levy limit, you see that we can only afford schools in about three
years. and all of municipal government goes away. library seniors. I don't know how that looks, but um that graph was compelling to me and it
suggests that in two or three years almost almost regardless of the magnitude of the override, we will have to do it again because 2
and a half% growth does not cover. Think about your utility bill. Think about your health insurance bill. Think about filling up the car with gasoline. Um, it's an evolving world
>> and it's not getting cheaper. So that Thank you. That's the graph exactly. So, uh, I exaggerated a little bit, but you can see that we can afford only schools by fiscal year 32. And the structural deficit has wiped
out. I mean, it's it it's kind of apples and oranges because of course we have to have municipal government, but um the trend is clear. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone? John, do you have a suggestion?
>> Yeah. So, I guess part of my part of my concern or issue is those numbers on the screen don't reflect anything that's in front of us right now. So this is this is part of my concern because I can see right there the police department is 1.413.
What's in front of me is 1.333 943. And when I So the 1.413 is exactly what the department had asked for. And if you scroll up a little bit, see that what you have in front of us here. You gave us a Norris number that
you're proposing 5,859,000, which is exactly this year's number. >> No, that that's that's under reduced budget. That would be level funding every >> Well, actually, they're an 8% increase that I proposed for
>> TA proposed, right? They're identical. I go to Norris. 5,859,582. That's this year's budget. >> The budget I proposed was an 8% increase. >> Scott is the one that says fiscal year 27 TA proposed with HRHS update. That's
your proposal. >> It might be an error, but the one that I sent out and the one I went over at last meeting was a 8% increase at just under $500,000 from Norris. So, I'd like a hard copy of whatever the latest version is and then no more Excel
sheets out there. But the I so that leads me to my other question is if the local school committee who is elected in their own right and is the sole body charged with putting forward a budget
number to the select board to be considered to be placed on the ballot if they voted 6 million75437. Why didn't that number get to the select board? Why would And you don't have to answer it. number did get to the select board and the proposed budget from Norris did reach the select board. This is my
proposed budget to the select board and the select board is the ultimate authority on whether or not to fund on the schools. >> So that gets me back to I'd like to see a budget that has all the asks from the department heads which is going to be much higher than this 1.7 or 1.8
million. That's our starting point. >> What is that number? >> It it was I sent that out several weeks ago. Was it $2.2 million budget? >> It was about two 2.2 or 2.4 four, was it not? >> And that include all the odds from the department heads. >> Can you possibly bring that up? >> Uh, >> no. That's the one that's posted on the
website of two. So that's the that's the real number 2.4, but it's not because that doesn't have the correct Norris number. >> That was the the ask. >> That was the Norris >> that had the 8% increase for Norris at that time. That was >> with with respect. That was not the ask
from the Norris school committee. That was a placeholder that this board instructed the town administrator to put in there. So, we still don't have one document that has the voted on Norris number, the voted on Hampshire regional number, which is
going to increase that 2.4. And I understand that >> I believe we had from Norris a budget that came in right around the figure that Scott had put in as a placeholder.
If I'm not mistaken, from our original meeting, this had been the figure. The 8% had been in there and Norris came in just a little bit less at their hearing the other night. And it was my understanding of it, it was requested to
not let that 100,000 or 50,000 or whatever it was sit on the table, but to fill fill it up to what the town administrator had proposed. That I think was there. And then there was the subsequent vote to do a fully restorative budget is my understanding.
I could be wrong. I'm willing to hear from somebody from the school committee who's out there. >> I'd like I'd like to see I'd like to see the current budget with >> Sure. Kim, come on up, please. And I think Norris tried very hard to stay within the parameters that they
were given for budgeting. So, >> hi. So, for those of you who don't know, I'm also the chair of the local school committee. So, the town did not see a budget request from the Norris school committee until after the public hearing
which took place on Wednesday, March 11th. Prior to that, the placeholder that was there was a hypothetical that the school committee had not weighed in on. At the public hearing, there was discussion about maybe just doing a little bit more. Ultimately though, the
school committee voted to ask for a restorative budget. So, the single budget request that came from the Norris School Committee was for a town contribution of $6,75,437,
which would be an increase of $845,855 over the fiscal 26 budget. So, there have never there's never been more than one version of the budget presented to the town. There was a single single vote, one vote and that was the vote. I hope that clears it up.
>> So I now I sit on both boards and I said at that meeting I made the motion I supported the 845 knowing that when it got to the select board it probably wasn't going to survive at 8:45. But I believe that's where we should be starting. All the again Norris is a department. Hampshire regional is a
regional school. They are separate and distinct. So, every other department got their initial request in and they got that into the budget. Some tweaking has happened. Yes. But my point is before we just go down this road of where we're going to cut or what our overrides
number going to be there, I'm a numbers person. I want to see the starting point that has all the original requests in there, which includes the final votes for Hampshire Regional and the final vote for Norris. What is that? That's our starting point of how high we are.
that's probably unsustainable. Then we back out the recommendations from the town administrator in conjunction with his task force and we start weighing those as a body of these two bodies who ultimately are the group charged with putting forward the budget which will
lead us to the override. We're going to have two versions, maybe three versions of what it's going to be. That's a further discussion. But and while I have the floor, I just want to point out that I'm not in favor of dividing the
override question for departments. I do believe Hampshire Regional needs to stand on its own. It is a regional school and under the law, this B, the town legislative body only has one choice. Vote it up, vote it down. That's
it. We can't amend it. Town department budgets can be amended on the floor with two copies of the town moderator ahead of time. It should be its own question. Up, down, or take no action. Take no action means it failed. It has to pass. Two communities fail or take no action
has to go back to Hampshire Regional School Committee and they have 10 days to act. It does mean we're going to have to have special meeting to get it forward. But there's a whole separate set of laws that follow that. And there's a fail safe that if we fail to meet it, because there's five communities, five communities will have to meet again. There's a 112th budget.
The commissioner of education comes right in and sets it. We don't have to worry about that. We need to worry about the town. I do believe the override question should be one for the town operational. If we decide to put money forward for a capital, I would argue this probably isn't the year to do it. But if we were, I would argue that that
should be its own line item. There should be an operational override. If we're going to have a capital override, there's that. Hampshire Regional should stand on its own as the law says. And it's the only it's the the only right we got. Traditionally, it's always been mixed in with our budget, which caused
some chaos last year. >> I think the idea would be to also Thank you, John. to to try to make this as clear and as simple as possible for the voters. I think once we start doing peace meal here and there, it becomes
very confusing as it was last year. So, I think that's a question to be debated still. I don't think that's on tonight to decide whether it's pulling out Hampshire or pulling out capital from this budget. I think we still need to talk about the general overall budget and where we are with this. And I don't
know from the task force people or anybody else that would like to say something or Reggie to come. >> I just really want to support what John said. I think that's the only mechanism to look at the high school budget separately. From what I understand, we have to vote as a town whether to approve it or not. And if we don't
separate it out, there's no vote. >> So I just think procedurally John's absolutely correct that we have to do that. We probably should have been doing that every year. >> Well, and we we are the first town to go for town meeting to my knowledge. Right. >> We are this year
>> and and we would be also taking a gamble that some other town would do the same. How? However, our cousins to the west of us in West Hampton have scheduled a special town meeting just to approve the override. So, we'll know prior to our town meeting
whether their override passes. If their override doesn't passes, they they can't sustain the budget and that'll be a no vote. >> But they still have to bring it to town meeting. >> Oh, yeah. And they will after ours. >> Yeah. >> But but the point, you know, again, we we convolute and we mix everything together to make life easy for us. But
the fact is we have a dual school system. The town is responsible for prek through 6 and it is a department of the town. 7th grade through 12th grade we wave our responsibility and we say we want to regionalize and we send them up to
Hampshire regional and they're separate and because it's regional we either vote and whatever number comes down we can't amend it. We have to support it, vote it down or the more popular option is pass and set a future meeting which is the
same as voting it down without actually having to vote it down and then there's mechanism Hampshire regional school committee will get if a second committee does it community does it they'll have 10 days to get back together and put forward something else and if this this
is also the law was also written we're supposed to have our meetings in March over time society has moved to May. So the window's closed or is short. >> Mhm. Okay. All right. Would anybody like to suggest how we'd like to cover this? I was assuming that we might kind of go
through the bigger categories tonight. Um just to see what the what that looked like and we've gone through it in at the budget hearings. We've had some discussions at the budget task force, but just for the interest of the public just to look at and see what we're looking at for the various departments,
if that makes any sense. >> What What are we looking at? the proposed budget, the real budget, or the cut budget. >> This would be part of the cut budget, is it not? Do you >> want me to do the cuts or do you want to do my proposed? >> No, not the not the cut budget, but this is this is what you've gotten to to an
override budget. So, it's it's cut from the original asks of most departments, is it not? >> Right. And I can I can show you the spreadsheet here for what the to get to the 1.8 or the 1.7. This is what I cut from the town side.
>> Okay. You want to kind of go through that? Um the land use planner was cut. Uh permit link reduced by 4,000. We we'll put those fees onto um the user fees. So those that would be self- sustaining >> and that's for that's for the online permitting just for anybody
>> for mostly for uh building and and uh fire permits I believe as well. >> Yep. I uh I cut $10,000 from the runout cost from uh transitioning from Hampshire County Group Insurance Trust. Uh 4750 from the tree maintenance. Uh the COA uh cut half of the volunteer
coordinator, um 2500 from the reserve, the uh vacant uh f full-time firefighter at 573866, uh the health consultant by $10,000, uh the youth librarian by 20,783,
the library technician by 9375, and then adding into the uh agent if we are going to cut the land use planner, it would be restorative of the uh conservation agent. So, that got you to $188,000 worth of cuts.
>> Okay. Madam, Madam Chair, I just have a question. I don't know how this works, but so say we have an override. We put the budget in that includes the override and it fails. Is there a separate budget that's shown to the town's people to know? So, there they look at with the
override and and without, right? There'll be two budgets. Column A, column B, fire department with cuts, fire department without, school department with, school department without, and all the way down. >> Yeah. So, essentially, there'd be a budget that shows an override, whatever
that amount is, the 1718, whatever, and then another budget that shows um >> how >> without the override passing. So, sort of the the the catastrophic budget, if you will. >> How many override budgets can I mean, how many budgets can there be? Just two or could there be three?
There could be an infinite, >> right? So that gets me back to Thank you for agreeing with me so quickly. >> That gets me back to >> like South High. >> Where are we? What's our number? If it's a 2.4, adding the 60 in from Hampshire Regional, adding the 100 or 200,000 from
Norris and that's that's realistically 2.6. Call 2.7. >> All right. That's what the department heads across the board are saying we need to run our department because there were no ask in there. The only asks that were in there were previously approved but not filled, i.e. the land use
planner. We cannot go year after year asking for overrides. If we kind of thought, well, we can kind of get away with this. We really don't need $4,800 for trees. I, you know, asked our tree warden, the 8,000 he has now is not
enough and we're going to cut 4,800. So, do I think it's going to pass? probably not, but what is the number to reset the system because Proposition two and a half was never meant to be permanent. So that's like column C. That's hey, this is what we need to fix the ship and we're not going to ask we better not ask
for an override for another two or three years. Now it's like well that's probably a big ask. >> This is what we think we can do, but here's the cuts that go with that. So that's option B. And then if we don't get an override at all, here's where we're coming in at at option C. and and
let the voters decide at the ballot box which one they want to support. >> And I'll argue again that Hampshire regionally needs to be pulled out of that. And if we want to fund if we want I'm in favor of funding um capital improvements. I just don't think today
this year is the year to start that campaign. But if if we're going to, I think it needs to be its own question because I I think some folks are more apt to support an operational override and we'll deal with the capital in a
year or two, which is kicking the can down the road, which we've done for 47 years. >> It's part of our problem. Yeah. >> Is that we don't have enough capital to be able to do the large purchases we need in town for some of our major equipment. I'd be I'd be curious to see what FCON thinks about.
>> I've also agreed with setting the capital spending plan aside as its own override. So, this may be a little bit of a contrived example, but when you can't afford to pay your mortgage, you cut back on your 401k. you know, it would be great if we weren't in a
structural deficit and we could each year put towards, you know, c building up a capital balance, you know, a balance of funds to apply to some of the bigger projects we have coming down eventually. Um, but right now we can't meet our operational needs under Prop 2 and a half. And it just seems like we
are taking resources that we desperately need to fund, you know, needed core services. the most of the the budget 99% of the budget is core services. There's we're not a big city with a lot of fluff and redundant services and most of these
core services do not have replacements. So the library for example, if we are descertified, um yes, our residents can go to other town libraries, but they cannot check out books. >> Check out books. >> Cannot check out books is my point. Um
that's not replaceable. Um the school, right? all the school services that we, you know, desperately need to provide to our, you know, our students at Norris. There's no great alternative for parents to replace that drastic cut in services.
And beyond that, um, you know, you start asking parents to, you know, basically fill that gap themselves. Some of our residents won't be able to afford the tutors and the additional things. So you start making you know opportunities in the town you know divided by
socioeconomic class and I just think that you know the capital spending plan is really something we should have done many years ago but right now the structural deficit it's just not that time just like I weighed in on the new senior center it it is wonderful you
know the the plan that was put forward but it's not fiscally responsible with the structural deficit and I would say that the capital plan is right in that same bucket. Anyone else? >> I
I also appreciate the perspective that Scott's brought to it that we have apparently only ever in recent history made capital investments as a Prop 2 and a half exclusion.
And that doesn't recognize the fact that we have every year capital expenses or depreciation or um we have to keep up with it. And it's
only prudent to have an amount in our annual budget. Even if that increases the amount of the annual budget override as budgeting thing, I totally support
looking at the capital needs as a strategic matter at town for the town ballot. I could go along with carving out capital. You make a compelling argument. All new information to me
>> for separating out the regional school while we embrace Norris as the town department. It It's going to be an astronomical ask for the town. It just is. And I think
that $4,500 for trees doesn't doesn't touch the fundamental issues. I also think it does a a disservice if we don't say this this is the real number we need >> and and you know do I think it's going to pass? No. But I think we need to let
the public weigh in on it >> and then set a middle number that we're like, okay, if we can't go that far, this is what we really think this is what we need to run the way we're running now and and to correct the things that we need to correct as we go
on. And this isn't touching, you know, zero college highway or any of those other projects. This is just to maintain the core we have. We know we need a land use planner so that we can work to develop the parcels within town to get them out there on the street and to add
revenue. So I mean that is an assets in there that was in last year's budget. It just never got it got cut when the state came in and said, "Oh, you overbudgeted by 175,000. You got to cut things." So instead of laying people off, we made the conscious decision not to kick that can another year,
>> right? So I really believe there should be three numbers put before the voters. Here's what we need to go in. We understand this is a big ask. If we can get the maj the is it two-thirds of the ballot or 50% of the ballot? >> Two, I think it
>> whichever whichever way is. If we can get enough to vote, then fine, it's done. If not, then we go to the middle one. But let let the citizens vote in on each one option that they want, you know, and let let the body be heard, but give them all the options. >> It's just majority, right?
>> So, are you are you saying that then the potential would be the 2.4 that we started with as the ask >> plus the two adjustments? >> As one number >> plus the two adjustments. >> Yes. >> And then the 17ish or whatever that has been proposed through the task force as one and then the non-override.
>> Correct. Interesting. >> And I would probably I would then go on to argue maybe altering the proposed cuts a little bit, but not necessarily the bottom line. >> I don't know. Tough tough choices. I know I was following a little bit what
other towns are doing in South Hadley is putting forth at least three I think maybe maybe they've narrowed it down to two now but they were choosing multiple multiple figures for an override and um that was I think somewhat confusing in its own right too because they were very close together in terms of those numbers
>> you know like a 9 million or an 11 million override >> and also it becomes a big education piece right the sooner we can lock in on these numbers the sooner we can start the education process >> no absolutely no there's got to be a major campaign and I I do appreciate everybody coming tonight and and talking about your thoughts about the overroad
and and how to present that because I think there has to be a an all of town campaign if we're going to go for this for sure. >> But >> I think my part of my concern just in terms of I mean hearing you on the on the pulling out Hampshire Regional, but there's something that and I'm not not
one of those parents so I can't say but I mean it feels like you've got parents at Hampshire Regional. They're obviously town residents. So, they're town residents. Their kids came up through Norris for the most part. Now, they're a parent. They just happen to be, you know, their kiddos now at at Hampshire Regional. So, why would they want to
come and support an override if Hampshire Regional is not part of the whole package? >> I mean, we need that we need the Hampshire Regional parents to vote as well for an override. >> This is the distinction. >> I don't know what the Hampshire Regional number is off the top of my head. We'll
just call call it 7 million 7.6. 6. Am I in the ballpark >> on the Hampshire region number? >> 6.28. >> So 6.28 million. That 6.28 million is 6.28 million with the override.
>> Without the override, it's 6.28 million. So if we don't if we leave it in there and make it part of the whole number, that 6.2 never changes. Meaning if the override fails, we can't reduce that $6.2 million to New
Hampshire regional. We have we have to absorb those cuts in every other bucket in there. And the natural one will be to go to Norris strictly by the law of large numbers, right? That's where that's where the focus is going to go. So I think I do think it's an
educational piece. The Hampshire regional budget cannot be altered. It has to be that number. You either support it or you don't support it or you you pass on that question. And that's the same as not supporting it because the law says we got to put it before the body. The body the law does
not say the body has to take action on it. And the select board is powerless to change it because we're not we're not the legislative body when it comes to that item. The citizens are because we're a town. So I that's the reason for me why it needs to be its own number
because if we leave it in the override and the override passes, great, no problem, right? >> If we leave it there and the override fails, that number does not get adjusted. >> But if the override fails and no other town defeats it, then we're still stuck with that number.
>> That's right. >> Yeah, we're stuck with that number no matter what. That's why you get up and you send a message that you pass on it because we're the first one knowing that at least two other communities are relying on overrides in order to pass their budgets. It's part of the regional system.
1966 we made the conscious decision to go down this road. >> Madam Chair, follow up question. >> Yes. >> You didn't really make a distinction between what p what gets the value at a town meeting versus at the ballot. Do
you know how that would work? So, with town meeting, we're going to say we have a separate vote for for Hampshire Regional and it passes or fails. It passes, then does that individual piece go to the ballot?
>> No. If it passes, that's their number. >> So, basically that that Hampshire regional number would come out of our town budget. >> So, there's so it's not part of an override. No, because we can we can we couldn't give more money if we wanted to. We can only we can only act on that number.
>> That's the maximum they voted. Yeah. >> Override though at town meeting if it passes town meeting. It still has to >> has to go to the vote. That's the only thing that really goes is the the override goes to the paper ballot. >> I don't see this this again. I don't believe that the Hampshire regional
number should be in the town budget. It's it's not an operational cost. It's although our um liability for uh retirement is sitting in there, we c we can't adjust that number even if we wanted to.
>> Right? So that is a fixed number. No matter what happens, we need to come up with $6,281,000. And the only way not to come up with that is for us to take no action on the question, vote the question down, and hope that one of the other four communities list the same thing. And
then that doesn't even guarantee that when it goes back to the Hampshire Regional School Committee that they're going to do anything. They make they could push that number back forward to us and not not make any adjustment. We don't know. We That's a parallel path that we have to go down. So I I would propose that the 6,281,651
be removed from the town budget. It be its own article and knowing that we need to come up with we need to make that part of our number, but it that's almost our starting point. And then everything else above that is the town budget. How that gets illustrated, how that gets um
communicated, we can get we can go down that road if I'm in the majority, but I don't know that I've convinced two of my colleagues yet. >> Scott, thoughts? >> I just think it has to be simple. I mean, we have to pick an override number. It should cover Hampshire
Regional. Should cover Norris. It should cover town operational costs. If we start going down this road of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 choices, it's going to confuse people. It It's going to be difficult. Uh it's just that we need to get a budget in shape w with the 1.8
million. It covers everything. It covers the $60,000 increase that Hampshire Regional has had. We can add more into the Norris budget. We can restore some cuts and still keep it into a reasonable amount. But the bottom line is we still need to get a number that the voters are going to approve. >> And I'm still proposing that. I'm saying
pull Hampshire Regional out, make it its own standalone question as the law says we should do, then give the voters three options. The budget that we all all the department heads want, the budget that we think magically, looking at the crystal ball, the voters will support,
and then a failed override. >> In those are your three numbers. >> In Hadley, they gave two options and both of them failed. >> Well, and if it does, it does. We don't know until it gets to the ballot box. But there's 6,200 of us in this community. >> Yes. Let's put it before the voters. Let's give them their options.
>> What happened last year? Did we not pull out Hampshire three or four years ago from the budget at town meeting? >> I think it was two years ago. We had to do a special vote to authorize operational funds to be spent on it in the event that the override failed.
It was that $475,000 that we ended up having to repay. M something like >> two or three years ago. >> Yeah. So I mean it it came back to bite us no matter what. I mean just maybe saying the obvious. If we are
all in for an override we fund Hampshire Regional at their ask. But if the overrides fail, what's the number for Hampshire regional? >> 6,281,651.
>> I think it's a no, >> which argues for the strategy that requires calling it out separately. Mhm. So if that were out of the budget by itself, that gets us down to what's the bottom line on our budget, Scott, that
we'd be putting forth instead of the the the total amount of the budget would be what would be we'd be asking for the override? >> It would still be 1.7 because I level funded the Hampshire Regional. >> You're just going to get to it in two buckets. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. the catastrophe we haven't even begun to look at, >> right? Because again, going with the number, the proposed number eliminates a position at the library. I'm only bringing that up because it it was brought up here tonight. So, okay. So,
if that moves forward, I'm not saying I'm in favor or against it, but if that moves forward, are we never going to fund that again? Because you're not going to make that up in two and a half% overrides. I mean, not I'm sorry, within the two and a half percent limits as time goes on. So, again, I go back to
the voters should be given the opportunity to vote on the proper budget. And if they pass it, they pass it and we're done and we've reset the clock and hopefully we can go another 10 years without having them go back two and a half. Right? But if we pass the middle number
under what I'm proposing, right, the middle number, and that's the only option we give the voters in a year from now when we when said, well, we'd like to put the in the the assistant librarian, whatever that title job is over there at, but we need an override to do it. Well, you just got one last
year. So, this is what we need to reset the clock >> and hopefully we can get enough to vote for it and then we're done. But if we can't, we give them a middle road to take. >> But we're still only done for a couple years. I mean, we're never we're never going to be agree. I mean, 2 and a half% is never going to help us keep our
budget solvent no matter what. And there's no changes happening at the legislature that we're aware of. >> No, I mean, honestly, the health insurance really >> Yeah. Health insurance caused all this. >> Yeah. A large part of it. I'm hoping by pulling out of that system that we at least on this side have, you know,
decided to be a little bit more prudent in terms of that health insurance cost. But um you know, we've got to see how that plays out. But it looks like it will be advantageous to us at this point. But it's still not going to help us not have an override two years from
now. I mean, I I fully see that even if we do an override now, in a couple years, you're still going to have another override come up. This isn't going to be a a band-aid solution for five years. Even if we put forth a 2.4 4 million. >> Madam Chair, >> yeah, >> I would argue that's a reason not to
start from a point where we're basically admitting a partial defeat. So, we can't we can't state, you know, change outside of lobbying or town residents lobbying their representatives at the state legislature um to fix this. This is a
structural problem in the chapter 70 funding and the way it's impacting rural schools and it's, you know, a It's also a fundamental problem with Prop 2 and a half and also the the understanding I believe um of the
overall you know spirit of Prop 2 and a half. It was never supposed to be and I'm editorializing a little bit but it's not supposed to be a moat that blocks all property taxes. It's supposed to give voters the ability to choose to support important core services but not
be subjected to the whims of the select board or the the mayor etc. um for for things that are not core services that that are you know extraneous to you know the needs of the town. Um you know I I
think you know to John's point about having you know it's not even aspirational. this is just what we need the bigger numbers what we need to provide level services and I think to start from a point of partial defeat um yeah we will have additional overrides
in the future until you know the the foundational problems you know with the state laws are adjusted so you know why why not take a chance to you know get the best position to lead forward from for the next few years
Yeah, other point. >> And I would add to that that there's still the strategy, too. If I was a voter and I had the option, I'm going to have to approve an override. Well, this one's smaller than that one. I might just gravitate to the small one. It's
It' be a lot easier for a voter who was, you know, kind of coming over to do half a half move rather than a full move, >> which is probably what will happen. But then we'll we'll never be accused of of sandbagging them. We we told you this is the number we wanted. this is what's our compromise. So if we have to come
forward in another year or two, we've already set the record. >> What I would say, Reggie, to that point is that you end up in the same place. If you just start at that middle number, then you never have a chance to potentially get the additional funding
for needed services. You end up at the same override if everyone decides, you know, you know, to take, you know, option B. Um what I would request Scott to kind of you know move from the budgets of the overrides is I I think a really important you know piece of
information for the voters is what are the cuts without an override? Um because you know we saw this last year um as numerous people have mentioned at the school committee meeting both the school committee itself that there was this belief that we find we find the money
somewhere. you know, the these cuts are kind of the sky is falling and it's a little bit of Chicken Little. Um, but those were concrete cuts at Norris. Um, what would the cuts be? We have, you know, a structural deficit that's over $2 million. What are the cuts if we
don't get that override? And I think that is what empowers the voters to really know what's at stake. >> Well, I just want before I get to list, I just want to point out that I didn't ask the department heads to do the wish list budget or anything like that. It's to maintain level services. So, if we were going to go back, then I'd like to add some more. If we're going to do that
override, I mean, why not 2.7? >> Agreed. But I would argue that you put forward your your suggested town administrator budget with an override. Um, you know, so that that wasn't voted on by the select board infincom and was
open to, you know, further, you know, movement. So would the potential cuts with a failed override. But at least it tells people directionally, you know, that there is going to be significant, you know, impacts again at the school because it, you know, if you pull out
Hampshire, um it's about, you know, 40 about 40% of the budget before you start allocating, you know, um benefits. Um so the school is going to take another hit with a failed override. um you know, probably right up against the the
minimum funding requirements. Um the highway department is going to take a hit, the fire department is going to take a hit, you know, um across the board, we're going to have significant, you know, draconian cuts. And I think the sooner that people know what's at
stake, um, the better I think that they know, you know, potentially how they want to weigh the cost, you know, to their personal budget versus what they picture receiving from services from the town. >> Well, you've got an idea of of the cuts that you were talking about. You want to
those up? I I would if if we do increase, I would like to revisit the capital budget because the 350,000 I put before was the bare minimum and we have over $8 million in capital projects that need to be funded. >> So, can you just I mean, I know the
answer to this, but since you're live and on television right now, >> walk through that 350 because that 350 isn't uh correct me if I'm wrong, isn't okay, we're going to take this 350, we're going to go do this one little project. I mean, it's not even 50% of the tanker truck that we need. >> Oh, yeah.
>> So, so that 350 was going to be used for >> Mhm. >> to enable us to go for borrowing, right? For >> for portable radios for the Well, the borrowing takes place in the year three for the ambulance. but $20,000 for portable radios. Uh $9,000 for library
shades, parking lot sidewalks for $54,000, projectors for north school for $8,000, carpet for $10,000, and here even we're looking at maybe some other alternative sources that that we'd have to look at. So, it doesn't even cover the stuff that we actually need. Um, sidewalks for
$25,000. Structural repairs for water mitigation in north school for $50,000. Student laps for $5,000. Teacher laptops for $4,000. More additional water control for $6,000. A zeroturn mower for $25,000. We would
budget for the street sweeper, which we're contracting for, so it would be half of it for how much we're currently paying for the contract, and the other half would be from the capital funds. uh dump truck we would borrow for $68,000 over over the five years and the second would come in after the fifth year.
Uh stand up more for $5,000 duct work at the library as well as the toilet and basin and toilet basin 2 uh that are in disrepair. Uh town hall HVAC for the senior center uh general envelope because if you can see we have significant water damage on the second
floor uh as well as some other leaks. Um, and then for cemetery, I have a request for $6,000 for uh to continue with the uh design. >> So that $350,000 is I'm assuming is accumulative of that whole column C, right? So, but it's the thought that we
would pay cash and or that we would because you said borrow. >> Mhm. >> Borrow and then that money would be locked up for the five years on and that's the principle and interest. >> Yeah. So for ambulance, so we would make the order on FY27, but we wouldn't actually receive the ambulance for
another two years. So we wouldn't start making payments for it until FY29. But without that, we wouldn't be able to borrow against it. Similarly with the um um like the dump truck for example. So we'd borrow against that. Same thing
with the street sweeper. So we would be able to afford cash with all of it. We'd have to borrow against it, >> right? But you'd get $350,000 one time. >> No, it'd be $350,000 each year. It'd be a It's own dedicated part of the budget
that wouldn't be able to be touched. >> And why wouldn't you be able to touch it? >> Uh because publicly it's going to actually see it once we start borrowing against it. Then we have to fund it. >> Do Scott, do you believe that that reconciles with the belief? Right. Just
look at the override for Norris. There's this general belief al and I'm not saying it's representative across the entire pop, you know, our entire population of registered voters, but but there's this belief that the school gets the override in one year and, you know,
in next year it's kind of filtered down to the general, you know, um, operational expenditures, right? I don't agree with that position. I think you can only, you know, look to year-over-year Norris's budget increases. even with the cuts last year, it still had a year-over-year increase.
So even though you can't earmark the the override, but but I I do know right that we can't guarantee that that 350 necessarily goes each each year. I think there's a trust issue there. >> Well, no, you absolutely can. I mean, this is going to be its own budget item.
So every year the voters can actually look at the budget and see this is what we're paying the debt for the street sweeper. This is where we're paying the debt for the ambulance. This is the amount of money that we're paying for the shades. Additionally, once you actually borrow for it, this is not a debt exclusion, so it's not coming off of taxuals. We actually have to owe it.
>> So, what happens because it's a line item in the operational budget, that's all part of everything else. What prevents somebody in year two giving the town moderator two written amendments to because that is a line item that you can take that money out and you could allocate it somewhere else. What
prevents that from happening? They could, but it's no different than the short-term borrowing that we're doing for the highway heating system. >> Well, it is different because short-term borrowing means that you have a debt obligation, which is not part of the operation budget. It's it's it's on its own. And and this is where I come back
to. It's capital. It capital projects and capital vote and authorizations have their own set. And if we do it as a capital and we put it into the capital fund and we commit and we vote to pass 350,000 every year for 5 years, whatever the case may be, and the voters vote on
it, then I agree with you. Yeah, it stays that way. But if you just leave it as a line item within the operational budget, there's >> no debt exclusion. I mean, to borrow would still require town meeting approval. So to borrow for the ambulance, that still has to go and approved by town meeting. The smaller items that we can pay cash for wouldn't
have to be. But okay, I just asked you I just asked you if that 350 was the year one principal and interest payments >> for some items. There's also smaller items that we'd
have to cover the capital costs for >> with cash. >> Mhm. >> So some of those $10,000 $5,000 ones that you put up there, >> right? We wouldn't short-term borrow for a $25,000 zeroturn mower. >> So you're saying though every every year
you'd put in another 300,000 or whatever. >> Yeah. Well, that's the that's the line item. That's the amount that we've dedicated in the budget for that. And like most municipalities, they have a dedicated amount for for borrowing for those types of capital projects. Can you give me not tonight but
tomorrow? Can you send me two or three communities that do it the way you're proposing it so I can research it? >> Yeah, it worked in the acred debt service. Where does the debt service on that short-term borrowing show up?
The debt service would be under our well it would be out of that amount but for right now our debt service is in our budget. >> So the annual capital line would be responsible for previously incurred
liabilities. >> No >> no it be for going forward just for capital projects. Yeah, because the debt service right now is for what we've got in the books right now, which can't quite read that, but that's you got >> but almost all of that is outside Prop 2
and a half. >> Yeah, they're debt exclusions >> and the resulting debt from this would be within our two and a half limit >> or as we expand it with the overright.
>> So, go ahead. Explain. >> Yeah. So like this this is our our long-term debt service principle right here. >> So that that's that's currently separate. So if the capital is to pass then then we would be able to use that money to pay off the debt service for those some of those. So it' be some for
cash that we pay for the smaller items. So allow us to do that and then we would also be able to borrow against it. >> Right. >> So the main long-term borrowing >> it would not be responsible for those line items that you just showed us. >> Right. It would be for its own specific
debt. So, we have bigger items like the bridges and safety things and we have a lot smaller items that that but we don't have anything to fund those medium things like a like a $800,000 ambulance >> question. Isn't it to our advantage though to do it as a debt exclusion
rather than within the budget? >> Does it leave us more room in the budget by just moving it out and putting it as a debt exclusion? Maybe I'm not understanding how it works. >> Well, that that exclusion would have to be approved by the voters and
we need a consistent year after year ability to fund these capital projects. So, a debt exclusion, it could be yes, one year, no another year, but we need something that we can at least fund, you know, these basic things. >> Are voters usually supportive of
net exclusions for capital equipment in Southampton or I I don't know. No, I mean we've had dump trucks that have been >> I think three or four years ago it was uh it was voted now. >> What's what's our capacity within our
our debt levy ceiling? >> Cuz to your point, Reggie, >> I mean all of our debt right now is debt exclusions except for the highway. >> I know, but that's not what I asked. So the there is a ceiling. There is a maximum that we can raise in taxation. We're not there. Mhm. >> We can do two and a half overrides up to
the point, but we can't exceed that ceiling. >> Right. >> So, by adding 350 this year, maybe 450 next year, whatever the number may be, we're pushing up against that ceiling. I'm asking what what is what is our bandwidth there? How much room do we have before we hit our ceiling? And
>> and how much we can't even do, right? And we can't do a two and a half override. >> I I have to check with Megan, but I we have significant room for that. to answer your question that that's that's where that comes from where if you're pulling it out of oper if you're pulling out of your tax base your general funds
there's an equation you can go on the mass do and run it and it'll tell you what your ceiling limit is so we can we're probably we're beneath that whatever that is because the state's not going to let us go above so we can add capital in here until we hit that ceiling >> right but you can also there's a
mechanism for capital to be its own line item have a capital budget be able to vote to raise capital $350,000 for 5 years, make it a line item and put it in there, and that money goes into that capital fund. What it looks like being proposed here is we're baking it into the
operational fund. >> This is very similar to what Belchure Town just did in their override last year. They did a $500,000 capital override into their budget. So does it it seems to be a question is whether this is protected as a line item
being in the operational budget though. >> I mean it I'm what I'm hearing from John it makes it sound like it won't necessarily be able to stay there all the time that you could somebody could vote to make a motion at time meeting to move that out. >> Yeah. I >> or we could be in desperate times and say we're going to zero that line out now.
>> Exactly. I I would argue right if it's in a you know one one shop one stopfits-all override I I think it is up to the whims of the select board future select board and the voters um versus like you said
John a separate override with multiple years of of funding. So, if it's just in a regular, you know, Prop 2 and a half override, um, and we're in another fiscal, you know, challenge outside of, you know, restrictions by borrowing that
we make, um, it it's not I'm not seeing how that's locked in for multiple years if it's lumped in for regular override. >> Well, it's really no different than how we bought in for the dump truck in 2020. It's not a debt exclusion. It was just a basic borrowing that that was approved
by town meeting that the town did. $36,000 a year right now. >> But that was one item, not a recurrence, >> but they vote they voted on a single item for $36,000 for X number of years. It was clearly defined here. We're just voting on a line a dollar amount,
>> right? And that dollar amount will be used to borrow. So once town meeting approves it, just like they did with the dump truck, that'll be locked in the mechanism. But you Sorry, but you just said something. You're not going to borrow for all these items. You're going to pay cash >> for some smaller items. Absolutely.
But >> so so if I'm confused sitting here, how how am I going to be able to explain to the constituents that they should support this? >> But if if I'm understanding or not understanding maybe, but out of the 350, so suppose there's whatever $150,000
that's small items >> that could be paid for with cash. >> So then you've got a couple hundred,000 that you would use to be able to go out and borrow. Once we borrowed for whatever the street sweeper or the ambulance, town meeting would have to approve that. >> Mhm.
>> Town meeting would therefore see that that money has been used for those purposes as long-term borrowing. Right. >> And as you can see, we have a schedule over the next 10 years talking to all the different department heads and all the different departments about what we estimated. Now, it's going to be fluid over the next couple years. It's not
going to be locked in. Some things are going to change. Maybe the salt shed roof can be postponed 5 years. Maybe we have to move it up, but that allows us to have some flexibility and actually borrow against some of these things. >> Here's the part that I can't get
through, Scott. So, we're obligating, you know, the budget and the town for the borrowings that we do in year one, but it's going into, you know, the the regular two and a half levy, right? The base as an override. So, in year two, it
it's just in there. it's not dedicated. So in year two either at town meeting like John mentioned as a as a like a you know possible scenario or just based on budget constraints you know there I I don't see the guarantee that that will
continue to go towards capital only the the year one the long-term borrowings that you're going to incur in year one are locked into the budget in future years future expenditures future borrowings are not guaranteed >> I I I don't I agree with that. I mean,
first of all, this the transparency. I mean, first of all, you have to have a plan. So, we have a 10-year capital plan that very clearly says how we're going to fund it each year. >> If someone wants to raid that for another department, then it passes the voters and that's what it is. >> So, so you're you're on the right path.
We could have a capital plan. If we had a capital plan 10 years out, over 10 years, and we presented it to the voters and the voters approved that capital plan, then yes, I agree with you. then we can fund it. We It creates the capital thing. Right now, we're sticking
$350,000 in the operating budget and say we go to portable radios for 20,000, but we don't get the specs out there. We miss the deadlines. We actually don't issue a PO for it. >> Where's that money go? Because at the end of the year, it's in operating. It
falls out. The bottom line goes to free cash. How are you restricting that that money from that? >> We could go to another item that we could fund in exchange and we just substitute it out. We're getting very loose here with it where if we just utilize the existing there is a mechanism in mass where you
can fund a capital project where you can lay out a 10-year plan. Here are the buckets. Here's the total annual cost or the cumulative cost over 10 years. Divide that by 10. Here's the annual allocation he's done. Town votes on that. And then that becomes a permanent appropriation that goes into the capital
fund that can only fund those projects that the voters voted on. And if you want to get fluid and switch gears, you got to go back to the voters and say, "Here's why we got to do this and get their consent. We can't just dump it in here and hope that." >> But that's that's a bureaucracy. That's just not sustainable. Like even
>> that's what the law says. >> But even this I mean most like looking at the Belchuretown model. This is exactly what Belchure Town did. And you need some flexibility in this stuff. You can't just lock yourself in for 10 years and say that's it for next 10 years and we hope the dump truck doesn't break a little bit prematurely or hey you know
what this roof can last another 5 years but the capital plan says we got to do it now. >> I think if you need to make an adjustment and you go back and articulate it to the citizens of the town because we are a town and not a city that they're going to go along with it. They're going to see that it's there and we got to make an adjustment in the
middle of it. But there is a mechanism in a process to do this and not leave it at the whim of the elected body that's sitting up here. even though this is the best select board there's ever been or the town administrator because 10 year 15 years from now you're going to retire and we're still going to be on this capital program.
Again, I'm in favor of this. I just don't think the vessel you're using to get there is is the best course of action. But >> well, I would just say it's no different than what we do other borrowing. Currently, >> when we do borrowing, any other
borrowing right now, we go to the voters, we articulate to them what the debt service is going to be, what the lifespan's going to be, the vehicle is going to be, or whatever the project's going to be, 10 years, or the lifespan's 10 years, this is what it's going to cost, and this is how long we can borrow
for and advertise over. We lay out that whole picture to the voters, and then they vote on it. >> But we didn't go to the voters for the highway heating system last We went to town meeting and they approved it >> for x amount of dollars, right? >> That's it. >> Yeah. So, you you got the ask for x amount and you and ask for it. So, you
can't change that >> town meeting. Well, that's >> and you can't change that. You can't say, "Well, no, we're not going to do the heating now. We're going to take that money and we're going to go put in, you know, air duct work or whatever the case might be >> without going back to the voters." So, here it sounds like we're asking for a blank check and this is kind of what we
think we're going to do, but we want to remain fluid so we can bounce around if we want to. Well, I mean, every year this has to be looked at. And that's why I want to do the capital, put the capital underneath the finance committee instead of a separate committee and have the finance committee look over at this. >> So, we'll have a capital budget. >> Yeah. >> Which follows the capital plan that the
do spells out on how we do it that projects out 10 years. >> It it doesn't have to be strictly by the DOR. We we can do it like this method. So every time we go our own way because we think we're better than the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, they come
in here and tell us, "No, you got to change it." $175,000 last year because we thought we could use more of our overlay instead of just following the calculations. >> No, this is a set line item that we can use year after year for capital projects. I I don't understand why
>> is what you're proposing the only way that this can be done. This is the most easiest and common sense way to >> not what I asked. Is it the only way that we can achieve what you're trying to do? >> Do you want to put into a stabilization fund? >> Okay. So, question, but then but then we
lose the flexibility because now we have to call a special town meeting. >> Well, I'm sorry. For $350,000, I don't necessarily want to give flexibility. I want to know exactly if if I'm putting my taxpayer hat on and I'm at the ballot, I want to know exactly what I'm being asked to spend my money on and I want to do it. I don't want to say, "Oh,
I trust them to take $350,000 a year and I'm sure this will get taken care of." >> Well, I I trust our department heads and I trust our finance committee and I trust our select board and town meeting to be able to make these types of decisions. I trust Randall to be able to say that he can extend the life of a mort next three years or that he absolutely needs it that you know this
year or that the police chief needs a new car >> or a cruiser. I mean, I trust our department has when they submit their capital project, I I trust that they're able to do it that way. And this is the plan that they proposed to you in terms of what the scheduling is for these various
>> I sat down with each department. I went over their capital plan. I said, "What can be delayed? What can be other sources?" And and what could actually be, you know, what could we borrow for? >> And they're very accommodating. You know, some things that we just can't we're not going to be able to afford like an infield dresser. That might be
something that the parks department is going to have to do. Is that a necessity? Probably not. But I think an ambulance is definitely a necessity. I think a pumper truck is definitely a necessity. Scott, I I think a clarification is needed. So, you just mentioned establishing another stabilization fund.
My understanding is that Prop 2 and a half overrides cannot be earmarked in future years to a stabilization fund. It has to be funded through appropriations. So yet again, this is something that's going into, you know, the overall levy, you know, after the override if it
passes that is not guaranteed in its in its application outside of the the debt obligations that we take on in year one. >> Yeah. >> Right. I mean, the idea behind the transparency is if we go to town meeting and we say we need this part as as a
Prop 2 and a half override and then in year two we see, oh, there's only $200,000 in this budget versus $350,000. What happened to that $150,000 that we approved last year that's supposed to go to mowers and water mitigation at Norris School? I I don't disagree on that point, but
what >> I mean there has to be some, you know, it's the transparency, but also the accountability that the voters have to hold in both town meeting and at the ballot box. >> Well, and that's the same argument why an override for the, you know, for the schools, even if it was the only thing on the budget, just like last year, it,
you know, that I've said this many times, the the voters hold the town accountable on that future expenditure. But John's proposing, unless someone is pointing out an error in his understanding of the law, um a more
concrete way to apply, you know, these funds. >> It's it's utilizing the capital committee, which >> I don't think we've changed that bylaw yet. >> We haven't yet. There's hopefully on the on the town meeting coming up. >> Well, call for articles is open, but uh there the town has a capital committee
right now. So we could put forward the PL a plan of hey here's the schedule that the department has to put together put it out there let people see it let them see what we're spending the money on break it down yearbyear the you know there is money in the account right so to the earlier point that there is some
cash to spend you could do that this is what we're going to spend it on we want to start building up here we want to do a a um an exclusion you know nonoperating funding mechanism to put the funds into the capital committee. Once it goes in, and if the capital committee works
within the existing structure under the current structure, I realize that we're thinking about changing it. The capital committee meets, does its report, scores it, and then goes to the voters and says, "Here's the money we have. Here's what we want to do, and here's how it's going to fund." And they vote on it. And if it passes by majority, it passes.
This this this budget would be not under the town administrators psych board but under the capital committee. >> They would make the decisions on how to appropriate this money. >> That's what you would be proposing. >> So it's no different than what we do
now. They they meet with the department heads. They they develop a budget. It's just more efficient if we have Fincom serve also as a capital because they're in all the different budget hearings already and they're already meeting with everybody and it's part of a bigger picture of how the town operates. >> And if Margaret's already left, she
left. But Margaret and I are on the capital committee and this is not how we do it right now. This is where we need to get to with the 10-year plan and have everything spelled out and then funded that way. But it means that the money when appropriated is earmarked and is locked away in the capital account and
it can't be redirected to pay for um wages >> as an example. >> And how is this thing different from when the voters voted for the additional EMT or the first responder and you know they voted we said we're going to do that and then that that didn't happen.
So what how how is this going to be protected the same way? You know what I'm saying? Well, because that vote did a one-time increase in wages in the operating and then in year two to Doug's question earlier, that money
the jobs didn't get filled. So, if they're not filled, you don't get them the next year and then we hit this crisis. >> But I fear that this would be the same thing because it's, you know what I'm saying? It's going to get redirected. >> Correct. Even even if the end intent is not for that to happen, that's what the perception is going to be in the public.
>> Yeah. I'm not sure if we're going to solve this issue tonight. I think we've heard opinions on this. Um, where do we want to get to? It's almost 8 o'clock. >> So, I' I'd like to make a motion. Yeah. >> That um for our next meeting to be scheduled outside of our regular Tuesday
night meetings, right? a dedicated meeting just for this that um we see a level service budget, a proposed budget from the town administrator
based on the work that he's done with the task force and what his um >> proposed being the ask or >> well I I assume what I ultimately want to go before the voters is level service requires an override of X
a proposed budget which would be less than that one of this is what we can get through with this is what we think we need which is with maybe some tweaking Scott's pretty close to that now
and then if the override fails here's where we are >> so just to be clear so like if we were going to use that model I'm going to throw the numbers The level services would be the 2.6 override. The proposed TA would be maybe the 1.7 and then the
third number would be the catastrophic final number, right? Just for if the override >> for thought to make it palatable to everybody. Is that what you're that's what the vision is, right? Yeah. >> And then we meet and and >> so there's three budgets is what you're saying. >> Yeah.
And then we meet whatever night that's going to meet. And by the end of that meeting, hopefully we can zero in on what the what the final numbers are going to be. >> Okay. What's anybody's availability? >> We were not going to ask normally. >> Well, >> huh.
>> You need a vote. >> Yeah, I know. We have a motion on that, too. We need a second, though. So, that's the motion. Three three separate budgets. >> So, I'm hearing one that's a level service budget, which is >> what basically what the department heads were asked to do, >> right? submit their budget for level service, whatever that is.
If for some reason there's a compelling reason to add to it, I'm open to listening to it, but that would be difficult. But >> the Norris ask for instance. >> Well, so level to me level the Norris vote was level service and then the
Hampshire regional we can't change that number. So it it is whatever they approved Monday night. >> I thought Norris was partially restored. the local school committee their budget that they passed was restorative. >> What would their level service be then? What would >> level service to FY25?
>> Yeah. >> So it it's is so I guess you could say it's level service plus but it it is it is basically you know starting to climb our way back out of the failed override last year. >> Okay. I'm I'm a little confused because I thought there was
>> Let me clarify since there is a motion on the floor. Madam Chair, go ahead. >> Let me clarify my spot. The ultra ask is what every department head put forward. And by department head, I'm including the local elected school committee
is their number plus the department heads. If the town administrator believes that we need to add something to that, because I I would suspect a land use planner would be in there because that was in last year's budget. But if if for some reason it's not there and it needs
to be there, fine. That's that's our high watermark. >> Our mid watermark is somewhere around what's being proposed right now around 1.7, right? Which would be using the
placeholder number that was for Norris, right? That was in there that that got to that 1.7 >> more. Yeah. But >> whatever that number is >> and then override fails and we need we need to come all the way down on whether it's the 1.7 or the 2.4.
What is that? >> Okay. >> Second. >> All right. All those in favor >> I >> I >> I planner in there. >> So the question would be when we could possibly meet on this.
What's our timing here? Thursday evenings >> Thursday. Not this Thursday. >> Does this qualify as an emergency meeting that we could do it tomorrow? >> I don't think so. >> So th Thursday would be out, right? Because it's not 48 hours.
>> We don't have 48 hours to notify. Um >> I missed that question. And I would also suggest that when we do when we do meet that if we can't meet upstairs if we can reconfigure these room these chairs down here >> be easier to actually meet upstairs
around the tables a lot easier. >> What's what's a good night for folks would come if are you uh >> what's your availability as well? Are are we are excuse me is the select board considering this as an emergency meeting or >> I don't think it qualif I think we'd probably um
>> Wednesday or Thursday of next week. Well Wednesday >> Thursdays >> Thursday Tuesday doesn't sound like it's working. So Thursday next week >> Wednesday would work as well. >> So Thursday that would be the 26th. >> When can we have a quorum? What days of the week next week?
>> Okay. >> I think we're good on Thursday. Thursday the 26th. >> Thursday. >> Is that okay? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thursday the 26th at 6 o'clock. >> 6 p.m. >> Yep. >> Are we having fun yet?
>> Oh, yeah. Better. Okay. Let's uh let's go for that, I guess, at this point in time. >> Ready to return? >> Um we don't need to go through this list at all tonight. Then >> I can if you if you'd like. Did you want to go through this list that was handed
out tonight? >> I mean, the three budgets are basically already done. The 2.2 that I did a couple weeks ago and the 1.8 and then I I'm ready to go forward with the catastrophic cuts. >> Mhm. >> Tonight, >> you want to talk through what this list
is or wait until next week? >> I'm I'm okay talking through it as long as it's just clear that this is the initial this is not set in stone. This is just the initial thought before us. This would be cons catastrophic cuts. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> I mean, do you think it's more appropriate for next Thursday? This would be the the the third the cat. You know what I'm saying? >> Well, like it might be good to read it into the record and >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Run it through right now. That
>> and this >> and the revenue is mostly set. So we know what the cuts, we know what the number that has to be cut. So it's not like revenues are moving and it's going to drastically swing. Oh, you know, you don't have to actually make cuts of 2.4,
you have to make 1.8. No, it's mostly locked out. >> Yeah. I mean, we've still got some undecided amounts in revenue given the state budget, right? But I mean, it's not you. We've got a general sense of where things are. >> Yeah. Directionally, it should be correct. >> Okay. So Scott, this would be a possible if
the override fails. Is that correct? Let's just be set the stage as to what this would be and not knowing the amount of an override yet, but if an override >> Scott, if you could blow it up a little bit. >> So this is assuming that the the 1.8 >> okay >> override. So if the $1.8 million
override did not pass, this is where we would have to do on the municipal side. So, the assistant town clerk for $25,000, the police overtime would be cut by $80,000, and that would also have to be funding their the increases for any arbitration.
>> Scott, would it be appropriate for you to give some context on what some of these impacts would be on services? So, for example, based on um our police chief's, you know, input, that reduction in overtime, that's covering shifts when
the officers have vacation, doctor's appointments, sick days. So, what that reduction of $80,000 actually means is we will have shifts where we only have one officer and we will need to rely on municipal aid. >> So, you or mutual aid rather. So if you
were in a bad situation, you may be faced, you know, or or a hypothetical, you know, taxpayer in a situation would be faced with longer response times. >> So I think the $8,000 just looks like a number, but what that actually means for
the, you know, the level of service we we provide, I think is more telling, >> right? Well, for example, the library. So I know that there were some people that wanted to completely close library, but I was going to >> I mean I I really feel that we need to have at least one employee in each department no matter what. And that's kind of like the minimum standards I
wanted to have to maintain department. So when you look like the town clerk, that would leave only the elected town clerk. Um the police department overtime that would basically fund wages, but if we can't even get through this, I mean it might be even a reduction in police force. The library would have to be
reduced almost all positions except for the director. and the rest of the library would have to be staffed by either volunteers. Um, so I mean it would maybe be open a couple days a week at most. Uh, never mind the reduction >> be descertified >> materials. >> The highway would lose at least two uh
operators. So realistically there might be three or four people uh on the highway department for that. >> Um the health uh the administrative administrative assistance. So, the hours for the health department would be cut to maybe a few a week to be open to the public cuz
>> that is a new year-over-year ask though. I think that's appropriate to clarify. >> Is is there currently a health department administrative assistant? >> No, but this there used to be and this is restorative to that and this is required for the level service. >> Mhm.
>> Um, ju just on that one though, will you admit >> that administrative assistant, the health department's been gone for over two years. Mhm. And this and that would be split between the building and the health department >> for inspector. >> Okay. So that's new. That's not a level service.
>> That would that hasn't been in the past two >> to maintain level service. We would require that new position. >> But if you never had it if you never had it in the past 2 or 3 years, right? Because that there's a there was a volunteer in there. There was somebody in there going back five years ago and
the two department heads came forward and said, I believe the job became vacant. I'm not really sure how it became open but they decided to split the comp take it to themselves and they would do the work and it's been that way for multiple years. So this isn't a
level certain this >> it is because of the increase >> in what >> in what the health department is now doing it's required. So Claudia is is a very technical person. She can do a lot of the different things. She can actually go out and do inspections. So with this person there still needs to be
someone in the office to to serve the public. But it >> let's just keep going. >> Fine. >> So highway it would be two machine operators. One of those was actually downgraded from a mechanic. Um so again you know Randall would be at maximum six
people if they're all filled. Uh highway expenses. So these are the things that um he uses to maintain equipment. So that would be cut. So not only would the capital be cut, but the expenses to maintain the current equipment would be reduced as well. So there would be um like the big storm
that we had just a couple weeks ago, we had a dump truck that was uh that blew a hydraulic line that had to be taken out of service. Uh so there's going to be more things like that. The consultant uh that the health department uses, so all these problem properties that we have that are specialty, uh things like
abandoned properties or uh toxic waste fields, uh things like that, abandoned homes, you know, the things that actually impact the quality of life and neighborhood issues, uh that would be gone. um the fire the full-time current filled position of of the firefighter
paramedic would be would be gone. So that's one that's where currently the four council on aging part-time positions would be reduced. So they'd all have to be back onto grant funded whatever could be sustainable for that. Uh the conservation agent would be completely cut. So it would be go back
to volunteer work. Um the cemetery all the tree work would be reduced. So if there was an emergency that happened, it would have to rely on the highway department if and when they could get to it. Uh the assessor administrative assistant would be reduced. Um I would increase the principal assessor to make
it 35 hours a week just because that's where we have to have the money in. But again, it's saving on benefits because it's a 28 hour a week position. Uh the capital funds obviously would be gone. uh the employee benefits, the runout claims that I'm trying to start for the
next five years, that would be reduced by $10,000. Street lighting, we'd have to start turning off street lights for $10,000. Uh the legal expenses, so things like the bridge or the arbitration cases that are coming up, all the health department stuff that we're trying to take care of, uh that
would be in jeopardy. Uh the select word adjustments, again, this would be for our open collective baring agreements. So any increases that we are mandated to provide through arbitration would have to be maintained within that department's budget and that would
probably be a reduction in staff and then our IT capital reduced by $2,500. Total it would be about $1.1 million and that doesn't get us to the complete. >> So where where are you coming up with the other $600,000 if we're working on a
$1.7 million number? It would have to be uh through education as well as other sources like our fire department. We would have to reduce ambulance maintenance again. Uh we'd have to cut further maintenance in our police department and our highway department which is which is why I would advocate
again that the Hampshire regional budget needs to be separate standalone on its own. And I would advocate that we need to pass it. We need to take no action on it and table it and
see if any other community does the same because otherwise if we leave it where it is and it pass and it passes whether the override passes or not there is no adjustment that means education is code for Norris.
$600,000 from Norris assuming there's nothing else left on the town side. to to echo that point. School direct town direct costs for schools that's basically locked down. Um, you know, so yet again, and it's I I want to make
clear that I don't think that this should be pitting Norris against Hampshire Regional, but it's also in the event of a failed override, is it fair that Hampshire Regional has basically we just take the number
>> um and we put all of that pain on basically, you know, our our K through six population. >> Yeah. Can't be. and and that doesn't mean that Hampshire Regional doesn't get to where they need to be, but again, in in the event that we can't fully fund
Norris, you know, do we want an additional, you know, bite of the apple or excuse me, do we want to basically give a directive to, you know, the Hampshire regional uh the regional school committee um you know, that they need to sharpen their pencils
>> and the only way to give that directive is to vote it down >> or take no action on Okay. >> Anything but approve it is the only way to send a communication to that body. It's the only way. It's the only mechanism that number can get looked at and then there's no guarantee that they'll adjust that number.
>> Yeah. So, so John, if we had, you know, if we had, you know, the full the full like the full ask, the the larger override number and we we took no action on the Hampshire regional um budget or the assessment and then, you know, our
override passes, it goes back to the Hampshire Regional School Committee and they come back with the same number. At that point, we have a pasted override. we can happily accept the the on the second chance >> and we'll also know if any of the other four communities have the voted down.
>> Mhm. I >> I think right now I think West Hampton is the only community that's depending on an override right now. Right. I think the other two communities are not depending on >> I was I was told go will need an >> override. The other two Williamsburg and Chesterfield definitely not. >> Well, Gan was going to need an override
regardless of what happened. It's the health insurance. Mhm. >> But if Goan and West Hampton's override does pass, then they would accept the budget, I'm assuming. >> It's that would be logical that they would pass it. Yes. >> And then, you know,
there's been times when we've been the only community that voted it down, >> but everybody else passed it. But this is different this year. Every community got hit with that 24% increase in health insurance and every community is impacted for whatever reason
because Hampshire Regional couldn't exit that colle that um trust like other towns have. Whatever the reason is, I I don't want to get into it here. That was a different elected body. But I and so so th this is painful and what's here. I
mean, and there's some things in here. Okay, fine. But I mean, I I guess I would go back to the health assistant. It's 16 grand. We have a brand new phone system. The health director can they have cell phone voicemails can work. If
if you're telling me that I need to support that me voting for this, I'm supporting eliminating the overtime from the police department. So, there is none. So we will have shifts out there with a sole person on >> just so there's an admin. >> Well, he's asking for 160. Now the first
thing all our department heads do an outstanding job. >> Our police chief goes above and beyond and has his budget down to 80 cents. I mean, he knows where every single penny is. If he says he needs $161,000 in overtime, I believe him. So yeah, it
goes down to 80. We get a couple things covered and he and he's got that part-time officer. as long as that part stay officer stays with us doesn't retire. But and then the other issue is is I would argue it is safety, you know, I think our community is much
more likely to require an ambulance than the fire department. That perhaps it's time we are truly a volunteer fire department because that's $156,000 in wages. I mean, we become a volunteer department. Again, I'd rather make sure
there are two people in the PD in the city if in the town if we're going to keep it if we're going to keep the fire the police department needs to be funded. We can still keep the fire department and keep them on call. Raises a bigger question when the people that are on the fire department aren't necessarily all town residents, but
that's down the road. I I did I did talk to the chief about it before. Unfortunately, he's on vacation, but we're having a difficult time finding people to even do on call right now being paid, never mind volunteer. It's going to be a very difficult situation if we did that.
>> What's difficult now and we we're throwing money at it. So, so that tells me that we've got we're going to have free cash if he's not spending the money he has now because he can't fill the post. Well, it's it's not they're not there
24/7. They're there. They respond to the >> on call and Thursday training nights and >> I'm just saying given a choice >> of priorities and all that I there >> you got an excellent starting point starting point.
>> Yeah. And I think there's there's lots there to to talk about. None of that would be palatable no matter what. So, >> all right. So, let us stop on this budget point for now. Now, we've got a couple more issues on the agenda. Won't take long. >> Does it involve finance?
>> Uh, it involves health insurance a little bit. So, I wanted an update on that and then we have to to uh do the uh sign the warrant for the caucus which is coming up as well. So, um let's just move on to the health insurance, get an update on kind of the timeline, what's
going on there and the process so far. >> Mhm. Um so, I started to meet with the school department last week. I gave a presentation on the health insurance. We have two other ones for retirees scheduled on April 7th and April 9th uh at the Council on Aging. Um the GIC
released their initial rates last week. Uh Health New England is going up by 5%. So that's kind of the target for that. Uh the aggregate is about 8 or 9% total. So that's that's good news uh for us. For the additional insuranceances, I'm working with Steve uh the broker. So
he's looks like we're going to be going with the Hartford for our accidental and life insurance. Um, MetLife is the best so far for dental. Uh, Altus, uh, and Delta Dental, their rates were a little bit too high. Um, and then we're just
waiting for IMED to come in for, uh, for that. So, once we have that, I'm going to send that to the unions uh, to get their input, but there's really not many choices at this point with with those types of things. Um, they're all relatively the same. It's just a matter of rate shopping. Um and then we're just
waiting for the GIC to release their um their brochures and and their materials. >> Is the open season still the month of April or >> for signups? >> Yeah. >> And have you had you haven't had that full discussion with the town employees yet or >> not yet the school?
>> They were invited to the school one but just the school. Yeah. >> So you're going to have a separate one in addition to the retirey one or >> How did that go with the at the school? >> Um did he still here? Yeah. Was it well attended or? >> Yeah. No, I think there's a lot of interest in the FSAs.
>> Yeah, >> I think that was a this the good point that a lot of people were interested in. So, >> pretty good attendance. >> Yeah, about 50 people. >> Yeah. >> Good. >> Scott, I read that they were trying to push the weight loss drugs back into the
GIC. Is that accurate or not? >> Uh, they were taken out. >> I know they were taken out, but then there's a political push. I don't I don't think they'll be put back in this year. >> Yeah. Once they voted and the rates are already set, that's based on the GLPs being taken out. So, I wouldn't I
wouldn't see those being put back. >> I imagine they could get back in this year at this point. It seemed very late to do that. Okay. So, you've got those couple more meetings to do. So, that's at least at least on track for what we know at this point in time. >> Pretty much. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. All right. And then we have uh the warrant for the caucus which I don't have. Oh, Lucy. I didn't even see you there. I'm so sorry. You're hiding behind Robert. I didn't even see you. I am so sorry. >> Takes me a little bit to walk. So, >> sure.
Thank you. All right. >> You can just give it back to me. >> All right. So, this is basically we have the warrant for the annual town caucus which will be April 9th. >> Yeah. You don't have to read the whole thing. >> No, I won't. Uh in this room. So, we've got various positions open. Um, and we
will be meeting here on April 9th at 7:00. >> Right. >> Yes. >> And this is where people can nominate folks for various positions that are open. Now just just briefly moderator treasure collector select board almaner
assessor board of health cemetery commissioner community preservation housing authority library trustees park commission planning board school committee HRHS school committee Norris tree warden and water commissioner >> okay >> so this will be the time for people to come on in and do that and
>> motion to approve the warrant for the annual town meeting and cause the posting by the constable >> actually it's for the annual town caucusual Town Caucus. >> Town Caucus, right? >> Sorry. >> All right. I have a motion to second. >> Second. All right. All those in favor? >> I
>> I All right. Very good. We'll get that signed off on here. >> Thank you. >> That's it down. Thanks, Lucy. Sorry about that. Um and then uh we I don't think we have any other business that can't wait at this point in time. Anybody have anything? Uh if not, we have one set of
minutes to approve for February 12th. >> Motion to approve the minutes as presented. >> Okay. Second. >> All right. All those in favor? I >> I All right, motion's approved and I think that's basically basically it. Anything update on the
audit at all happening? Nothing new. How are we doing on free cash? We're getting there. >> Uh just waiting for uh Megan to finish up >> March 3rd, March 12th. >> Okay. So, I think at this point in time, unless anybody has any desires. Yes, sir.
>> We don't. Yes, >> you may want to give finance a moment to take a vote >> on their minutes. >> Who's going to do that? See what they have in there. If they want to do their minutes while they're still in session here. >> Okay, go for it. >> A second.
>> I >> Okay, good. Is that your only other business? >> Yeah. >> Would you like to adjourn your meeting first? >> At 8:50. >> All right. and motion to adjurnn on >> move to adjurnn. Got it. >> All right. >> All in favor?
>> I All right. We are adjourned at 8:15. >> Thank you everybody.