This government meeting is brought to you by Eastworks and our local cable subscribers. All right, the time is 602. I call the regular scheduled meeting of the select board to order. Three out of four members being present. Quum being determined. We'll start with the pledge
of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, liberty and justice for all. >> Any member of the public wishing to
speak during citizens speak right now? Seeing none, we move on. First order of business is the appointment of Robin Walden, Conservation Commission. New appointment, two-year term to expire June 30th, 2027.
I'd like to move appointment of Robin Walden to the Conservation Commission. A new appointment to your term to expire June 30th, 2027. >> Second. >> Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? I >> I
>> opposed. >> Did you want to say something? >> A complete packet. Nice background. I think she'll be another good addition to Hong Kong. Thank you. >> Town ministers report. >> Uh with the last two weeks being the holidays, there's not much public stuff,
but I'll get into some of the the capital and the the budget stuff that's right about my resources. So, >> select board members. Stephen, do you have anything? Mhm. A lot going on, but I think it comes up in other places. Okay. Right now, meetings are getting
cancelled and postponed left, right? So, maybe a while before you have a formal update. Okay. Hello. Uh we met last night in person with conservation commission on the blue way project going on Pleasant Street. It was a well
attended and spirited discussion. Um unfortunately many of the people's concerns weren't really the conservation is so narrow and really what their place in this and you know kind of concerned more about the wetlands and wetlands and
the boundaries. Um people had considerable concerns about things like battery storage and um uh uh threats to the the water system, the aquifer and things like that. And um
so they've um voted to um delay uh to do a peer review. >> Continue >> continue the hearing >> to continue the hearing um for a peer review. Um and um so that'll be moving on. Um
what else do they have? So they are going to um they are going forward with that peer review but at the same time allowing the presentation so that everyone gets uh more information on what's been going to be going forward with the project. It's a 40 acre project
2 acres uh fenced some 9500 solar panels >> whereabouts in town. >> It's on Pleasant Street 4353 Pleasant Street. Um there was some concern about Butters not being uh not being contacted. Um and uh that was
going to be under George is going to be addressing that for to see if contact the >> Okay. I think this although it's private um project it wars a place on our website where information can be
accumulated >> a lot of I also attended and I don't want to steal your glory um very engaged public but like all public's not clear which jurisdiction is discussed
>> whether it's going towards zoning a zoning board can address that more >> and it will subsequently But people, it would be great to have onepage road map about we're here in the process. This would be required as well and then maybe
people have a hook to orient themselves. Oh, we're not going to be talking about ownership of panels until ZBA or just for example. >> Okay, that's going to go on months and months. the peer review means going
field to >> um freshly delineate wetlands. >> So, okay, we'll see how much snow >> bringing forward. Yeah. So, again, >> any other committees or >> that's it for Okay. Um last night I
attended the uh Hampshire Regional Central Office uh public session for select board members, finance committees, and school committee members. Um, the key takeaways, at least from my point of view on that, the proposed budget for central office
overall is a is a 6% increase, which is made up of $179,000 reduction in the forensic expenses. We were in year two of those one-time monies. Um, and there they completely
cut out $30,000 for curricular materials. They later stated that they have not expended all of this year's money, so they're going to look to make a purchase for next year, but that's really just kicking the can. Um benefits is a 34% increase of $58,000.
They are anticipating they are remaining with the trust for another year. They're anticipating a 15% hike on top of the 38 39% that we've already gotten. Um, and then there's a 22% increase in districtwide technology services for
46,000 overall $111,000 reduction. Um, the key important thing that that I took away from that is, yeah, it's a 6% increase, but the work that the director of people's services
and the director of special education is doing as it relates specifically to Norris, even though it's much bigger, they're going they've now got the resources in place and the proper staff to seek full reimbursement for money
that we spent. And an example as it relates to Norris um regarding the uh circuit breaker, right? In fiscal year 24, we didn't get reimbursed for anything. We had zero. Uh fiscal year 25 going through the receipts and and
documenting and putting it in, it's $54,687 special ed increments. So that's the difference when we have a special ed child that's not within our district that comes in. We can charge incremental services if we can document it all. In
24, Norris was reimbursed $59,516. This year it's $166,485. Um the I'm that first one was in certain breaker. That was extraordinary relief. So that's anytime you go above 250% of what you budgeted to spend on special
ed, you can get reimbured. That was that first number. circuit breaker itself $52,000 in 24 and 25 we're going to get reimbured 166,000 that 166,000 will become um offsetting receipts for next year's budget it has to be used within a
rolling um 18-month period and then um the last column here which is not labeled I'm not catching it quick enough we got 112 and then 388,000 came in so it's an increase in revenue to the town or reimbursements I
should say of 275,000. It's a 345% increase for adding one FTE to support those two department heads that we already have of which Norris or Southampton pays 52 cents or 52% of. So
for a $26,000 outlay, we got 275,000 in reimbursements back. So I think that's a positive for how they're going and they have their steps in place going forward. Um, so more to come on those pieces as it goes on. >> Uh, next on the agenda is the fiscal
year 27 capital plan update. >> I'm actually want to uh include that into the um budget update when the finance committee is here. >> Okay. So, we'll we'll y >> hold that for now. >> Mhm. >> Is there an update? This is probably Chris. The 250th anniversary.
>> Um, wait for the rest of New Year's Eve bonfire. Yep. >> And awards were given to everyone who completed the scavenger hunt for 25 or so. And awards were given out with
prizes for the best rated houses, second, third place, I guess. Okay. You can see pictures on Facebook. >> Uh update on Zero College Highway. Uh so I'm meeting with ECM and media tomorrow about um doing some um video production
once we do get the final plan from uh Dodson Flinker. Um I think it's I think when you see the plan everyone's going to be pretty excited. I just want to make sure that uh you know people that are are not able to attend the meeting but you know get their information from like YouTube and things like that that they can actually see it and pause it
and and kind of see the entire picture all at once. Uh rather than what we've had in Nor school with the public input. I think it's now it'll be a well produced video. We'll kind of help show the public exactly what we're doing. We're going to have aerial photography and interviews and a full presentation.
So, um I think it's worth a little bit little bit of time waiting to to do that and uh I think it'll be a good good thing. >> Great. So my understanding is this is going to be pleasant to watch and
moreover informative um because what we have realized in past is we didn't do a sufficient job of educating voters and this will not only be a accessible resource but it's a
evergreen or some permanent resource as we move forward over what may be many years. >> Okay. Any other necessary business? Cannot wait for the next regular scheduled select board meeting on January 20th. >> Uh one thing I just wanted to mention was um the counseling agent has sent a
letter to the uh the psych board about potentially using the space for the current site board meeting. Uh one of the other things I I know that Chris will probably talk about that a little bit more. Um, but one of the things I want to talk about eastampton media too is to make no matter what happens with the council on
agent is to make that room more usable cuz right now with all the wires, all the connectivity, it's almost impossible to move anything. So you have the podium right in the middle of the road and you have that whole row of tables. So I am going to talk to East Hampton Media about maybe doing some wireless stuff, making it more accessible no matter
what. So it's more of a usable um space. >> Do you think you'll have that conversation within two weeks? >> Tomorrow. >> All right. So then I would suggest we um accept the letter dated December 23rd from the senior citizen senior center building committee update titled
December 23rd and we pencil it for discussion two weeks from now when we have an update from East Captain Media. some movement. Okay. >> All right. And that's the followup because we're taking the first action on their
request. Yep. Anything else? I can't wait. Okay. Uh we'll jump ahead once since I saw Vicki come in. U move alcohol license amendment pure food.
>> What do we got? or you you can make your own motion because you're vice chair. >> What do you want to do? I'll second it. >> Stephen makes a motion to uh approve the amendment um which in essence is going
from a limited license to a full liquor license and the additional or the difference in the fee schedule has been paid to the town and all of the requirements have been met. >> Correct. Correct. >> State three years, but
>> two and a half years. >> I do want to just uh Is there a second on the motion? >> A second. >> Second for discussions. >> I just want to recognize Judy um Judy Sedona, our assistants. We did a lot of work and with with Chris and everyone just to pull it through. But she did a
lot of work to get this done, especially in the last couple weeks. We were at the very end of the deadline coordinating with the state and everything. So Judy, I just want to give her a um a recognition for that. We recognized her as well. >> Great. >> Thank you. >> No problem. Thank you, Judy. On motion,
all in favor? >> I oppose. So moved. All right. And then we also have a commonicular license renewal for stop and save. >> I move that we approve the conviction license renewal for stop and save.
>> Have a second. >> Okay. There's a motion made and seconded. I'm scanning the package. >> Been paid as has everything been turned in. No objection. Okay. No further discussion. All in favor? I opposed. So
moved. >> Okay. Second page. Reading of the warrants. There was one um I don't know if you want to talk about the canal bowling fees now or later. >> Is it on the agenda? >> Um >> it was in the back.
>> It was in the back. I think it was late. >> I make sure we table it till next time. I'd like to have more background uh on some of the facts that started. That's where >> so we'll we'll accept a letter. We'll
pin it two weeks out and um individual members that have specific questions can email so we have those data points. >> Great. >> Reading of the warrants. >> All right. Since we last met or last reported, the following warrants have
been pending approval. PD26-20A, the amount is $295,449.96. W26-21A, the amount is $1,74161. Next is P26-22.
The amount is $353,955.82. Next, PD26-22. The amount is 57,456.3 followed by W26-23. The amount is $14,88129. P26-24, the amount is $358,25568.
PD26-24, the amount is 58,619.98. W26-25, the amount is $1,681,2265. >> Thank you. That's all. >> Old pending business fiscal year audit 24. >> Uh nothing to report. We're still
working on it. Okay. >> And East Street uh East section and Greenway tip project. Any update? >> Uh nothing on those. Okay. I do I am meeting with um Ty and Bond next week or two just to get an update from the
design perspective for the greenway. Okay. >> Is there anything we need to do with this? >> No. Uh that's just information bowlings. >> Gotcha. Okay. Um right calendar and announcements, special tile meeting is January 10th, 2026 at Norris at 10:00
a.m. >> 10 a.m. And then select board meetings January 20th, February 3rd and 17th, 2026. Um disc February 3rd I can participate via Zoom. >> Okay. >> Is there anything else that we need to
discuss? Otherwise, we can take a 12minute recess until the 6:30 hearing. >> We'll be in recess for 12 minutes. Kill the recording or no workers complaints. >> We're going to we're going to leave the
recording going. So, before anybody starts hollering, you see media can cut that out. All right. Tell Chris she's got to watch the video to figure out how to run a quick meeting. >> Scarlet, you said you had a chance to
log in and see part of Kong or didn't you see from the beginning? >> Not from I was at um Hampshire Regional and then I wanted to make sure everything was going okay. So, I logged in for like probably half an hour. >> That's known problem when you're trying
to have a Zoom participant address the room. >> No, it's feedback. >> Oh, really? >> Well, it's it's something I've seen you fix in the past. Uh after pushing some serious buttons, we need the serious
buttons. Decode. >> Yeah. I'm going to ask I'm meet with Anthony. The TV was actually broken. The microphone on the podium was broken. wasn't turning on. So, there's a lot of things. outside. >> Somebody mentioned that the interview
had happened prior to me. >> Yes. especially since you >> don't I think you're right, >> right? Some of the questions about connecting to the grid are settled in
location but that's not jurisdiction. Did anyone see the western men's news piece? >> I didn't search for it. I should have. Was it channel? >> Uh Western Mass >> that's 40 still in your right subscription.
>> Um I think maybe everything broke out. talking. It's >> not on there. >> Oh, yeah. Here it is. >> Western one face. So please
like >> the paper map is also turning outside. which is actually a good picture. >> That's not accurate. So when I >> storage battery storage is only incidental to
this specific field So everyone at the time and a location but it's nothing like what do you call it tractor trailer transfer
Yeah, that's the view. That's the background. He's he's vice president. No way. >> Governor probing court. See Stephen when I cheer if you want to
make a comment you you speak right up. Don't leave me. >> Oh you I would have stopped. >> I think we made it but we uh >> got ready to go. >> I'm not sure my pool skills through this good.
Okay. Assuming that this was coming too >> one more. Yes. >> We don't we don't need a swarm. We're just We're in recess until 6:30, but the camera is recording. >> No, you got to tell me.
>> Um, >> that's all set. So, it's just a article about the regional school. I think it's impact. >> Yeah. >> So 111 will fall out which means >> in theory 55% of that
we should see relief, but more than likely it's going to get absorbed >> because that was just social. >> I I'd be shocked if there's >> the question is from Facebook. Is that money that is effectively
earmarked for schools and remains earmarked for schools or >> that second that second piece that second piece that I was reading the circuit break extraordinary money >> that that money because it's it's recouped off the special education as they have the special education spending
stream >> as I would expect >> and different override to meet the schools need >> but what that does being a second more of that money is there to go there. We have to come up with less general fund
money to fit in there. Absolutely. >> Lot of opposition that people >> and my senses it's very hard to forecast until you get fall in the winter and spring. Do we have inside?
>> Nobody moves out of town. Anyway, ready measure. She thought she was going to make my 6:30. I was there for a little while. >> Don't make it. Don't make me
>> I know you have a way of getting >> what are you driving that car right there. You know what I think 48 kids after isolation
I like to take the kids >> 65 different I know there's one child is on the school There's a couple hours later. She's going to zoom in. >> We want to raise our >> You know, on New Year's Eve open till 1
a.m. >> Pretty impressive, huh? I told people no this is this is not setting president I feel like I've raised the bar >> I'm not built for it though like the shots and everything
I was like my anxiety was like I'm not for it >> feel like 125 like people could be in there till 1:15 technically, but I can't help along the bar. So, I was like,
>> "Let's go." >> I don't care. It was snowing. Like, you guys everything needs to zoom in, right? >> Um, can you can she zoom up? Can you share with that? >> Um, my L is actually connected to that
computer. I can zoom in this way, but my camera is connected to that computer. >> Um, what I can do is I can't audio. The audio
and I gave my boyfriend I was like half of the whole I ran to the airport on Sunday. It's always helping. >> Can you see us, Chris? >> It's okay. You're on You're on mute, Chris. >> Call the joint meeting back to order.
Well, the select order back to order at 6:33. Refer to the finance committee to call to order. >> Call the finance committee to order. 6:30. >> Okay. Both both committees are present with quorums. We're joined virtually by
uh our chair, Chris, who is uh remote today. For logistics purposes, I'll just I'll chair I'll facilitate your chair. She can yell at me if I'm wrong. As soon as Scott gets straight up here,
Chris, can you see that? >> Yeah. Hopefully that'll work. All right. So, uh, have a, uh, FY27 budget update for everyone. Um, a few things I would like
to go over is the the revenue picture going forward for FY27, what we know now, uh, what are some of the cost drivers and expenditures we're going to be planning um, that are going to be coming up. Um today I also met with uh a lot of the stakeholders to kind of talk
about the initial internal capital plan and I was able to get okay to move forward to start presenting it publicly so I can start getting approval from FINCOM and and the select board and um moving forward with that uh and then going over the next steps of the FY27
budget. So just a quick update for our stabilization funds. We have uh 865,000 in our operating stabilization right now. In our capital stabilization, we have a little over 150,000. Uh we were able to close out all those dozens of
different accounts. Um so if you didn't spend it by October 1st, it's going back into it. So that's where a lot of that money is, uh actually coming from. So uh just a quick disclaimer, you know, these numbers are just for discussion purposes. It's very early in the process. Um, so everything's really just
an estimate or or back of the envelope calculation at this point. Um, there's a lot of variables um, that need to be a little bit more concrete for any decisions to be made at this point. Um, and I did meet with each department to
discuss their FY27 budgets kind of informally and what their cost drivers might be um, to kind of get at least a picture of what where we can be in the next year. So the first part is talking about our revenue. Um so our revenue from the tax
levy, which is what we're up against with Proposition 2 and a half, you know, for FY27, it's probably going to be about 350 to $400,000. Um we're probably going to estimate less than $100,000 in new growth. Over the last couple years, we've been over $200,000. That obviously is going to be
in half and um it's going to probably be even less. new growth over the last couple years has been kind of a saving grace for the town budget because it's been compounded year after year, but that is slowing down as well as a lot of our other revenues. Uh the other part is
the overlay account. So our 5-year average for overlay. So an overlay is like abatements, non-payment of taxes, senior work off, veteran things, things basically anything that um that would allow people not to pay their taxes or if you don't pay them, you know, we we put that together. That's called the
overlay. Um the 5-year average is the 97,000. So our assessor is probably going to say uh for FI27 it's probably going to be over 150,000. So we're going to deduct that from whatever um from our tax loading. So that's essentially it's going to be money that we're not going
to be collecting. Um so it's going to it's going up. So realistically, you know, we might be able to depend on $300 to $400,000 in new revenue this year from the tax levy. revenue from the state. So this is our
our charity sheet estimates. And if you look at the last couple years, this is chapter 70 funds for the schools, our un unrestricted government aid, uh things like that. The average has been about $77,000.
Um, if you look at the amounts, depending on what the state is going to do, I don't see it going more than, you know, a big increase of $50,000, maybe $75,000 depending if something happens. Um, hopefully something on Beacon Hill does shake loose and there and they send
the towns more support. There there was those two articles, those two reports from the MMA about the state significantly underfunding um the Cherry Sheets, Chapter 70, Chapter 90. Um, essentially, you know, we need more money from the state. So,
it will have come this year. I don't know. The state's in a hiring freeze. They're offering buyouts of 10 and $20,000. I think that's an indicator of where things are going to be going. Um, you have the federal funding, which impacts the state more than us, but I'm until we actually see the money, I don't
feel confident, you know, going over what's already been historically put forward. uh our revenue from other sources which really doesn't impact our budget as much but things like building permit, excise tax, ambulance fees, our investments, alcohol license, cannabis tax, meals
tax, things like that. All those are probably going to be at best level funded for this year. We have a little bit of growth in like our meals tax and cannabis tax, but that's compared to what the overall budget is. It's not a lot of money. It's not going to solve anything. Um this actually this
part only makes up about 7% of our revenues when you look at everything. So when you do look at our revenue sources, we get almost 75% of our revenues from our real estate and personal property taxes. And when you look at that blue section, that again is
restricted by Proposition 2 and a half. The other part of that is our state aid, which is about 19%. And again, that's we're at the we're at the whims of the state, whatever they decide to provide to the cities and towns. Um, and then the other part which I just mentioned, our meals tax, cannabis tax, ambulance,
stuff like that. That's that's really a small part of it at 7%. So, what does this mean? As I mentioned years ago, you know, most cities and towns currently, we're not the only one, but we're in a structural deficit. uh when we have that much money that we are
that we get from our real estate taxes and we are confined by Proposition 2 and a half and all of our other expenses, health insurance is increasing by 10%, schools are increasing by X amount, we we want to get people, you know, even small wages increases, things like that.
um adding a position, adding a person on health insurance, um all that stuff is significantly more than what we can raise for our our our property taxes. Um so after the overlay in the levy, you
know, we might be looking at $350,000 this year. Um at best maybe $100,000 in state aid from our from our cherry sheets. Um, so I'd be right now at this point I'd be level funding all of our revenue sources
and that's kind of like the best case scenario. Um, so like I said before, maybe 400 or $500,000 in additional revenue. Just to give you an example of of what our cost drivers are, if you look at our education budget, education is obviously the biggest part of our budget. is close
to 70% when you add into our our soft costs, our health insurance, our insuranceances and all those things. Um a 2% Norris budget increase and this is just their base budget. This is not including their offsets. You know, that's going to be about $120,000. Same
thing with um Hampshire Regional 2% is going to be $120,000. So you combine those together, a basic 2% increase is going to be a quart million. And you look at what our potential revenues are. I mean that that just alone. I'm not blaming education, but it's just an idea
of what our cost drivers are. >> And you know, we need to look at the Norris elementary questions. You know, there there's going to be a slight decrease in the central office cost this year. Um you know, I think it's going to be 40 or $50,000. That's that's a good thing. Um that's going to impact Norris,
but also the the Hampshire regional, but there's a lot of other costs that are going to be going up. Uh one of the concerns is the FI26 offsets that Norris used. There's about 2 years ago was a little over 900,000. Last year was about 750,000. Question is how much of those offsets
are going to continue to be able to be available. Um if it's half, then that's going to be that's going to be a 4% decrease just on the offsets alone. Um and a lot of that's out of the control of the school committee in Norris. So
this is just a 2% increase on the base budget and it's not accounting for any reductions in offsets or other revenues that they use. And Norris also has their their collective bargaining agreements this year that are out and it's and and outstanding. So you know that's going to have to be settled. So there's we can't
really uh plan on any percentage uh budget right now because it's wide open at this point. Same thing with Hampshire Regional. Um you know Dr. prone. They've done an amazing job riding the ship. I think if you were able to go to the watch or go to the presentation yesterday, I think
you'd be very impressed. There's I think there's a lot more confidence um under their leadership. They're working hard. They're doing a lot of things to kind of move forward with that financially, but again, the numbers aren't in numbers and they have to do the best what they they can with what they have. Uh you're going to see a decrease in central office
costs, but there are going to be some expenses with Hamster Regional. For example, as I mentioned before, we have that FY26 health insurance. That's going to be still $220,000 and that's got to come from somewhere. Um, there's going to be, you know, maybe a just again back of the envelope. There's going to be a
15% increase. So, if a 20% increase is $200,000, a 15% increase is going to be $150,000. Again, I go back to what our revenue is going to be, that alone, >> that's it, >> is our just for our health insurance to
pay for is is our revenue. Um, and then >> they're not tracking with the town employees health benefits, which you've led with our support to get out of the term side computers and get
into the statewide program, which is more financially advantageous for every party, the employee, the town, the one our fiscal responsibility. I have a slide for that.
>> We ought to have a veto on Hampshire regional behavior like that. >> Well, if we're 61% vote out of budget, five communities vote if two communities voted down.
Yeah, it's two, not three. If two communities vote down the budget, it goes back. >> That That's the veto. So it's full nuclear option. Veto the budget and let them sort it. You wouldn't necessarily be able to
rectify the insurance issue. >> No. Yeah. Okay. I'll let it go. >> So health insurance is our is going to be our single largest cost driver across everything. Norris, the town, Hampshire regional. Um >> have we have the town employees including Norris completed the the open
enrollment period for the kick? >> Uh we able to calculate out now? Not yet. So that won't be until April. >> Oh wow. Okay. >> Yeah. Um so you know transitioning to the GIC should provide some relief and stability. The GIC is going to be setting their rates uh in late February.
Um we're going to be having our open enrollment for the GIC and I think it's going to be in a April 1st around that and it's going to be for 30 days. Just to flog this dead horse to death, we shifted from the regional school
schools in general to health insurance for town employees >> which includes Norris >> which includes Norris but right >> I still have the Hampshire regional next slide. >> So there's still a lot of unknowns. We
don't know what the rate increase is going to be for the GIC. I mean, I I I imagine it's going to be less than what what the Hampshire group insurance trust is going to be. Um, we don't know where employee mitigation is going to go. The employee uh migration and employee
enrollment, we don't know if the numbers are going to go up or down. I mean, I'm assuming the migration I'm going to do as as much as I can to get people into the plans that best meets their needs. And a lot of the that will be the lower cost Wellpoint and and Health New England. Um, it's going to be taking a lot of education and then employee
enrollment. you know, I think that we might see see a slight decline in enrollment switching to GIC. Um people might say, well, I'm going to go with my spouses or another another option. Um we won't have concrete numbers until May, till after enrollment. Um ultimately,
if everything goes our way, we might be able to have to level fund our original FY26 budget if everything works out to the best. If we have fewer people enrolling, if we able to do things like an opt out program that would help encourage people leaving, if we have a
huge migration to H& or wellpoint and by level funded that includes the um the bargaining of the FSA. >> Uh no, that would be a right. >> So, you know, that's everything goes well. I mean, it it could be possible. I
don't want to get everyone's, you know, >> and at the state level, has there been any traction on the bill to allow municipalities that are exiting the trust to deficit spend for 5 years on the runout or is that still in process
or is it dead? >> Uh, I think that's stagnant. >> Okay. >> I haven't gotten an update yet. I know it's still out there. So, um, >> hey, Scott, >> the, um, one of the issues historically has been the weight loss drugs. >> Mhm.
>> And, and I know Hampshire, the insurance trust was, was stopping that. How about the state plan? >> The state is restricting it. They have a new program with VA, VITA Health, I believe, where if you meet certain qualifications, you have to enroll in
this special third party program. they would provide the weight loss drugs, but there's certain um restrictions around that. Okay. >> So, it's a much more managed program. >> Yeah. So, we so we were told those big increases were in part or maybe in large part related to those usage of those
drugs. So, if they're not going to be used, wouldn't you expect the costs to go down? >> You would expect. >> You think you would think so. >> They were discontinued in October 1st. But even >> for the group, >> let's say that was 90% of the problem,
which they have said, but they haven't provided any documentation calculations. Even if it was, they still wiped out 30 3 million or 30 million in reserves that build back up. >> No, no. It was smart to I think it was smart to leave the trust. Is that is
that what you're >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But but if those costs aren't there going forward, you would think there'd be a pretty significant change. >> Yes. And even if not, you would think there would be change because people have lost weight and they're healthier. So I see like the data from people losing weight that they're not on all
these other medicines anymore. So we should see some type of positive. >> So even if you spend $10,000 on a weight loss drug, but you prevent one heart attack, which is like a six figure >> or a hip replacement or diabetes or
something. It should longterm. >> Over the long term, >> right? So short term it might be like that but long term as long as you manage it make sure people that need it are actually using it you know it should be a benefit not a >> not a negative >> and I think the cost of those drugs is going down significantly
>> 16,000% >> medicare they won't cover it anymore >> so there is a potential liability and runoff cost that's something that we won't know, um I won't go into it too detail because as I mentioned to the select board, I think there are some
legal issues surrounding that um that I've been talking to council with. And I'll just kind of leave it at that. Um additionally, you know, we do have a budget for mitigation funds. So, we agreed to the unions about $90,000. So, we're budgeting about 35 this year, 35 next year, and whatever the remainder is
going to be will go towards the FSAs and the other stuff. um that is statemandated. And then uh I did talk to the unions about an opt- out program. Um there hasn't been much traction and hopefully I can get that in the next couple months. But an opt- out program similar to like what the GIC offers and
what a lot a lot of other towns it would say if you've been on the town's insurance for a couple years and you have another option either through a spouse or maybe someone you know two individual plans instead of a family plan. um we will pay you x amount of
dollars,000 2,0005 whatever it is to leave our plan for the year. So there could be a pretty significant savings if we get if we get two or three families to take that and it cost us $2,000 and we save $25,000 on the fees because they take now take that $2,000 and apply it
to their spouse's deductible. Um then that could be a pretty decent amount of money. But again, we won't know. I have to talk to the unions about it. Um, and we would have to again put that part of the budget. So, it should balance out. But the question is, you know, how long
you don't want to just make it open to everybody. So, you have to actually demonstrate that you've been on the insurance for a while. Maybe not just a new employee, but also what do we do years two and four, 2, three, and four, five, 6, 7, 8. You know, do we keep paying them or >> the other thing would be to make sure
that annually they certify >> that they have coverage somewhere else. >> Yep. Yeah. So, do we keep them like do we do it in perpetuity or do we have is it just a one-year thing and then we risk everyone coming back on flooding back on in year two?
>> Well, I would say municipal government nothing should run forever, >> right? So, that that could be um that could be an option that could be cost savings. There's a lot of other townside cost drivers. Our highway garage heating
system, which is almost being done being installed, that's going to be about $40,000 in debt. technology is going to be increasing 10 to $20,000 salary adjustments. We do have one union contract out right now. Um that union contract could go to binding arbitration. Um so we do need to be able
to put at least some money aside for any type of salary adjustments. I won't because we're in we are in flex partying. I won't go into too much detail. Uh PAS and landfill monitoring that's going to be increasing. Uh non-union increases for the town. So I would I'm probably going to be proposing
a 1.5% increase. It's not that much with staff increases. Most other towns are at the two or 3% of the informal poll around. So, we're still kind of even below that. But that's going to, you know, if we go for with that, that's going to be $40,000. Utilities, you know, again, are rising in legal expenses from the bridge to Hampshire
County um group insurance trust and other things. We're probably going to have to budget a little bit more money in our our legal expense budget. So, that's just things right off the bat that are going to be on top of the townside cost riders. Again, I go back to that $300 to $400,000 and we probably
have just that alone without increases to health insurance for active or retirees. I mean, that alone is$1 $150,000. >> So, our educ our education obviously central office and Norris school um Hampshire
you know those are reducing slightly. Norris and Hampshire regional that's going to be another another issue. Um, and then we have our town costs like transportation and vocational tuition. So, we pay for the transportation costs out of the townside budget and then our vocational tuition we pay out of the townside budget. Now, so we have 46
students in Smith Vocational right now and we have one student in um Westfield >> Westfield. It's about $22,000 per student currently um to attend those that we pay the tuition for. So it we don't really know the numbers until
after the budget cycle until the summertime where the the lotteryies haven't been done and they have you know actual numbers. So could it go up five students maybe and that's $100,000. >> Could it go down? Yes. >> The number of town kids at Smith V makes up just under 12 and a half% of the
population at Smith >> which is an interesting >> number. Do we know the marginal cost for a student at Hampshire Regional High School? >> Um, not a fan. I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't know. >> About 17,000 for North.
>> It's less than the location. >> It's less >> 18 1718. >> Yeah. >> On the on the trans on the transportation side, I I don't know that. Well, I do know I know it's not a town. It's not a select board issue. we
pay the bill, but the the school committee negotiates that contract as a bigger piece. And I I wonder if maybe we should ask the committee to look at just just to reverify that we need as
many buses in the Norse loop in the Southampton loop >> cuz I know because we have buses you can there are multiple houses that get picked up that are two houses from Norris. They get picked up there and brought to Norris. You know the bus is driving by anyways.
I get it. But if one bus out of the I think it was 14 that run, you know, what's the c what's the cost? 300,000 divided by 14. We can figure out what the cost of the bus is. >> I I'm actually a little bit more concerned about the specialized transportation.
>> Well, that's that's that's um that actually there's a separate line item for that. >> When is the contract up? Because some things to consider if if you guys have input is um what we did is we went before the city council and asked for a
five-year because we're able to get more competition. We we found that more companies were interested in our bus bid by you know we can statutoily only do a three-year without approval. So we got 5year and we did a 5-year bus bid. We saved huge money. So >> regional negotiates on behalf of all the
towns. So they they can do the five and the current contract is a three-year with two one-year extensions and I think we're in the fourth year. >> I think >> that's correct. >> Yeah. >> You know, food for thought is to do a 5year with a three with a, you know, multi-year extension on, you know, based
on vendor performance and appropriations, but it we found that companies would come from Florida for a bigger contract. You know, like the smaller year contracts, we weren't stimulating the competition and we have the same two bus vendors. >> Yes. But true and but the the mini bus
situation or the special ed, you know, vamp pool that runs it, you know, that's $200, $200 per day per per student regardless of how many students fit in in that minibus. So, and I honestly don't know off top of my
head how many van pools we have related to Norris, right? Because that would be on the town side budget versus Hampshire Regional. It's a proportionate piece of and again, you know, positive news last night is they're utilizing
the minivans that Hampshire Regional already has that we already pay for to limit the van pool. So, I mean, they are being proactive. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, we've even negotiated to see if certain parents would, you know, we can compensate the parents to do them or even working with West
Hampton or Goan or other towns that can do it as well. So I know that they're it's definitely under radar. >> Yeah. >> Whether or not you know it's successful that's another thing because you know ultimately some of it does reside in the parents discretion. So >> especially with the specialized
um so with Hampshire regional the health insurance um so there is a health insurance equity issue. Um you know with Southampton transition to the GIC Hampshire regional is staying in the Hampshire County Group Insurance Trust. Um, so there's that discrepancy there.
Southampton, we pay 7030. Hampshire Regional pay 7525. Um, they didn't mitigate any of the impacts of a 55% increase to health insurance. So there they don't have to join the GIC, but I did stress that something
like this does have to happen that they have to take some kind of action. You can't have a cost driver of 55% of your largest line line item and not do anything. Um I mean I think it was a missed opportunity at this point um to do something. Um and I just personally I
don't think it's fair that now you know myself included you know nor school all the employees we we did something to mitigate the cost. Um but essentially our high school which is what other cities and towns you know the regional serves as our high school um they have a
different not only do they pay less but they're also going to be in the group insurance trust. So they don't have to transition to research insuranceances or any of that stuff. So I mean I my recommendation I do think you know a proposed budget from the Hampshire regional you know they have to match the savings for health insurance at least by
Southampton in some manner just because you didn't join the GIC there's still options they need to sit down with the table with their unions and get something done. So I mean I I do think that there should be some pressure applied to them on that regard. The other thing is the DLS recommended
agreement. Um, we're meeting with the DLS on Thursday to go over the memo that they produced. Um, but one of the recommendations is to have an actual agreement with central office on what services they provide. Uh, you know, Dr. prone, you know, has
they've done a terrific job, but researching and everything that there's actually no detail agreement on what the services that central office provide to North School, Hampshire Regional, or the town. Uh we have an agreement, you know, setting everything up, but there's nothing that says that they're going to provide accounting services or payroll
services or, you know, they're responsible for this. So, if we're spending $1.5 million, we should have an intergovernmental agreement that actually spells out what they provide for everybody. Um, one of the things that my own personal concerns and I've expressed
this to to Veto and Don is that if you have four different elementary schools in a high school in central office, uh, they don't have a human resources personnel. So, you have hundreds of hundreds of employees and there's no one on staff that has an HR background. So,
contract interpretations, employee disputes, professional development, MCAD complaints, all that stuff is just a huge liability. And I think if we do have an agreement, they have to they they have a benefits manager that doesn't have any HR
background right now. So I think they need to have a position that if something happens, I think it's a ticking time bomb. Um and again, you know, what do we actually receive for payments each year? You know, Southampton, we have the largest budget out of all the towns in Hampshire
Regional. We have the most employees. We have the most students. we contribute the most to Hampshire regional. Um, and I think that the agreement has to be kind of tilted more towards our organization and our operations than anything else. So, we've I've talked about incompatibility with Vadar and
other accounting systems and they've been very good in trying to do something, but I think it needs to kind of spell out that, you know, they need to be on board with what we're doing so that our accounting and our financial and our payroll and our benefits doesn't suffer um for other towns.
So, I I can read read the memo, but this is just what the memo said um from the DLS that there's no specific language in the relationship between central office and the individual elementary schools or our communities. Um and that we should do
something similar to an intermunicipal agreement. So, the next thing is our upcoming liabilities for this year. Um, and this goes, you know, against free cash as well. So, we're trying to get free cash certified for this year. >> Please try again.
>> Um, it might be $300 to $500,000. So, we have our liabilities. We have that $150,000 payment to central office for our second year. We have the CARES Act of $130,000 that's going to be uh counted against our prec. We have our
potential New Hampshire County Group Insurance Trust liabilities um that could be spread out over five years. But we still need to start budgeting for that regardless if you know pending legislative approval and regardless of how the um the legal issues kind of unfold. We still need to make sure we
have that. We have the mitigation funding the $30,000. Um the Hampshire Regional Health Insurance cost for FI26, that's still the big question mark. Uh and as I've mentioned before, that alone is going to be, you know, nearly $400,000. So that leads to the
>> Did did was there no free cash update? >> Not yet. >> Okay. >> No. >> So you went through that one real fast. >> So looking at the the revenues um and I did do it. So it's going to be easier and I can circulate this. So one one of my mistakes last year was having
individual spreadsheets. So now everything is one spreadsheet that you there's a 100 tabs but it's going to be everything is now interconnected. You don't have to produce everything. So that was my mistake last year. um you know just roughly our basic revenues as I mentioned um going through everything
level funding or reducing um everything and assuming that there would be a 2% increase that again this is just just numbers it doesn't mean anything you know final it's just to uh for
discussion purposes just to see what the numbers look like so a 2% increase for north and 2% increase for um Hampshire regional uh as well as all the the basic level services that we did with the town after I had discussions
with you know the different department heads um getting some estimates on what our you know IT tech is going to be what our my insurance is going to be all that all those things and assuming that in our health insurance is comes in just a little bit more um than what we budgeted
for um we're going to be looking at a deficit of $500 100,000. >> Last year when we went through this exercise, we assumed kind of minimal increases of the high school >> and it was way off. I mean, do we risk
doing the same thing again if we just budget like a 2% increase of the high school and then >> Well, I think I think the >> Yeah. So, Go ahead. >> So, I have an answer for that. So, I'm going to skip ahead. So, I have been meeting with the school committee. They've invited me into their um
executive sessions for negotiations. Um you're talking Norris. The question is high school. >> Oh, I Well, it's kind of both, but >> Oh, cuz regional should be out midFebruary at least the indicator on what that increase is going to be and and then we should plug that number in
because it'll be adjusted over time. Norris is usually later on and that's the harder one. So last year and in previous years, it's always been, well, the school hasn't gotten us our numbers yet. We're waiting for the school. And then the school's been saying, well, the town hasn't got given us guidelines yet.
So what are we going to do? So I've been trying to do it a little bit differently and and getting everyone together earlier to start talking about, you know, what the financial picture is going to be on the town side, what the financial picture is going to be on the school side, what are are there going to be offsets or there not going to be offsets? and I'll get into a little bit
later, but I think that we need to form a budget task force working group uh with the schools, with the town, with even a few citizens. And I'll get to the details like that, but we need to start kind of talking now on >> what the what the options are going to
be and how things are going to look budget-wise, uh rather than the town waiting for the school just to give us a number and then reacting to that number. I, you know, we need to be a little bit more um proactive and work with the school. But even right now, you have Norris at two, New Hampshire Regional at two, and we're in the hole by half a
million. >> Mhm. So, I I think there needs to be either we assume an override's going to pass and fine, or we assume the override is not going to pass and we need to figure out where to find a half a
million dollars there. And I almost think it needs to be proportionate by percentage of the budget, not just go to Norris because that's the biggest piece, but and that means that every department has to feel something. No, no, there's
no way unicorns out there that are untouchable. >> I can tell you if we get to that point, every department would feel something. >> Yeah, of course. >> In the last round, that wasn't the case. >> And Norris felt that last time. So does
does this contemplate the requirements to return the level funding to Norris? John, can you can you remind me of of that requirement? >> No. So per per the Now I will say this, I'm not involved in the day-to-day union
negotiations. So if anything, whatever I'm going to say was prior to us entering negotiations and Margaret and Kim are handling that, not me. Um, last year with the cuts, the union contract gives a one-year waiting period
before they can file arbitration against us or not. Now, the the word I'm not the lawyer, but the wording is that the school committee needs to put forward a budget that restores the cuts. >> And if they the committee fails to do
that, then that's a trigger. If the committee puts it forward and the select board through finance cuts it, it's silent. What does that mean? But it says the management the committee shall put that forward which would mean there's at least one I
would think there's one version coming from nor from the north school committee that anticipates all those cuts being restored, >> right? Which isn't a 2% increase we're looking at, right? You know, 11% give or take, >> right? But but there's really no recourse at the end of the day. There's not
the school committee can put forward the budget they could still be voted down. >> Oh, correct. Correct. And and the at that point the union can still take us to court and then if the judge orders now >> the good thing because if they go and they get a ruling from the labor judge, that's the one time now you have a court
order the town has to raise above and then the town has to figure out how to pay that. You have a court force the town to pay. >> I don't think it'll go that far, but I mean that that would be the course of action. you have a judgment against you now. >> So do would come in and say you got to fund this. Figure out how you're going
to pay for it. >> So I do want to just take a little offshoot talk about the capital plan proposal. Um so I've been working on this for a little while now. I did meet with uh the stakeholders, a lot of the capital stakeholders today, including the school department, veto, Don, Alisa,
um highway superintendent, fire, police, chief, um library, uh as well, just to kind of get a little bit of buyin before I presented anything public. Now, this is all still conceptual. It's still a draft. So, there's, you know, my big disclaimer. Um you know, it's
theoretical, it's for discussion purposes only. Um, there has to be a lot of flexibility. I don't have a crystal ball. If you would ask me how much a 2x4 cost 5 years ago versus now, I mean, it tripled in price. So, I mean, when you're trying to look
at 5 and 10 years down the road, who would have thought car prices were what they would be? Um, so, but ultimately there's there's no perfect solution. We do have a capital funding problem. Um, but we're going to have to really do compromise and adjustments to to get anything done at this point. So, just a
little bit of history. Um, you know, we do have a history of underfunding or rejecting capital projects. The public safety complex, the dump truck from a few years ago. Um, mostly, you know, all of our, um, projects have been either, um, debt exclusions or they've been
funded from our capital stabilization fund. Our capital stabilization fund is based on 35% of free cash. And if you look at the amount of free cash that we historically have had at a high point, maybe500 or $600,000, 35% just does, as
you'll see, just doesn't really cover anything. Let me just actually sorry that this is actually one from um uh FY2 FI1. Um so FYI1 our capital needs are
2.2 2 million over 8.5 years as you'll see today. It's now $7.5 million right now. So, a lot of these things may have been funded, but they're re reoccurring. Dump trucks and loaders, heating systems, uh sidewalks for north school.
It's an ongoing thing. >> So, this this list that you sent out that you just shared with us, this is the one that each department head has signed off saying this is their accurate. >> Uh no, I'll I'll go over that. So that that's just a conceptual idea
>> right now what what it can be. So >> okay >> so the current so the current capital process as I said you know it's overseen by the capital improvement committee 35% of free cash and then everything else has been essentially debt exclusions. We have like we had the ambulance stabilization fund but that was stagnant
for years and realistically the amount of money that we even could put into that would never get us to a point where we could buy an ambulance. Ambulances are just increasing too much. I mean, it was it was $150,000. If you look at the FY21, FY11, now they're up over $600,000. So, even if we put enough money, we
would never get to a point where we could actually buy an ambulance outright in cash. Our funding history from free cashes just gives you an idea of what the balances were on July 1st of each year. And looking at our current capital
needs. So, as I as I sent out I I sent out inventory sheets to all the departments which I can show you what they um filled out. Um so, for example, the fire department is probably the best one.
Just just gives you an example so we can have an idea. And these would all be public, but you know, the best way that we can do it. >> So, each each capital request has a at least an inventory on it.
back to this here. So, everyone was able to get everything back in October. Um, totaling everything out up, you know, the fire department over 10 years has about 2 and a4 million. North school 1.4 million, police department 600,000, highway
department 3 million, library 30,000, and you know, our heating system just in this building. So miscellaneous, let's just say miscellaneous at 100,000. >> Scott, is there some of our long-term debt is like I don't know if there's like the, you know, chart of do we have
um when some of our long-term borrowing is starting to fall off like um you know, kind of like the >> all of our borrowing is that exclusions except for one dump truck. >> So >> that's good. >> It's it'll it'll help the taxpayers so they'll be paying less layer. this last
year for layer which is this renovation but it doesn't free up any money in our budget for these and then we also have to add the heating system so for the yeah I would love someone to put together that schedule because Scott's point is important it doesn't
advance budgeting but does help us address taxpayers >> correct and if we could get a vote where we they would allow us to borrow we could borrow you know what I'm saying and if you show the that it's not going to affect that much especially because when the exclusion drops off then that
there's no real impact on the taxpayers. >> I I do think that exists. I think I've seen that in a graphical format. It can be kind of difficult, but >> I think >> it's something we could maybe talk with the treasurer about cuz that's how we did it in my community. And um you know
it it shows our debt ceiling and there's different points. There might be you know 5 years from now we might be up real high but on the horizon 3 years there might be a big low dip and that's when the time that we want to utilize the borrowing to get the most. >> I mean we can't do that. we just don't
have any money in our budget to borrow and that that's kind of what I wanted to go about is that we need a new funding sources. We only we our only funding for capital is voter approved debt exclusions or through the the capital operational you know so that >> so what would be a new funding source that you can think of? >> Well, I would look at looking at how
Beluretown did it and a lot of other communities is actually using an override to put a budget item that we can consistently have year after year plan on and actually borrow against. So, we don't have that line item like you mentioned. That's that's essentially what this would be. But, we're so far in
the hole with capital projects right now that we can't just find a couple hundred,000 year after year to be able to do that. So, the other the other system with debt exclusions, um I'll go over the individual ones, but we'd have 100 debt exclusion boats. I mean, it would be it would be so much right now.
Um, well, debt exclusion is good when when the um the useful life of the item is short, like a car, like a police car, right? I mean, you're going to run that car for 20 years, so you don't want it permanently in there. You're going to constantly have to keep doing that. So, that's like a onetime expense that
people can understand. >> But doing an override for staffing >> to that money, it >> to a ban versus a bond. If we knew that in 5 years we were going to drop and we could ban versus bonding for you know a lower then that would help the town's
financial. >> Mhm. So the idea is I I would looking at all the numbers and I've talked to all the different stakeholders. I've talked to Norris. I've talked to Veto. I've talked to Randall and and the chiefs and they're all kind of on board with this. Um
looking for $350,000 override that we can use for the capital expenses and that's going to allow us to do a couple different things. It's it's actually similar to how Beltown just passed it. They actually did a a $500,000 override as part of their override for for capital expenses, but this is going to allow us to have actual planning and a
consistent funding source so that we can borrow for for things. So, if you look at the um at the sheet um I can bring that up. So, for example, if you look at the the spreadsheet, you know, our ambulance. So the the concern is always
well if you're going to pass an override they're just going to use it for other things >> right so how do you avoid that >> one there's going to be a separate budget specifically for this so every year all the town employees at town meeting will be able to see where that $350,000 is going to be going. So that's
going to be a budget item is going to be water remediation north school. It's going to be ambulance. It's going to be this. The other thing is we're going to be spending that money. So once if if and when it's approved the next day I'm going to ask the the police the the fire chief to put in the order for an
ambulance and it's going to be 2 years before we actually get it. But we're going to be on the hook for $124,000. So we're going to have those debt payments. So, we better we better we're going to have to spend the money. So, it's going to have to be dedicated to
that. In the first couple years, there's a lot of like smaller items we're going to be able to get off off the off the list, but ultimately, you know, it's going to be for those those those projects, those things that allow us to borrow like the ambulances and loaders and dump trucks and things like that
over over a period of time. Um, again, this is all just conceptual. Um, but I think it could work. And that $350 amount, $350,000 amount, at least for the first couple years, uh, can make a pretty significant impact on what we
need for our capital expenditures. You know, I don't want to go too low and I don't want to go too high. And I could do $750,000 easily, but, you know, I we need to be reasonable with with how we approach the voters on this. Um, and it'll take care of a lot of our different projects. Um, after year,
again, we don't have crystal ball. We don't know what's going to happen after year five. You know, when we start talking about a pumper truck and things like that, it's going to be pretty expensive. >> So, would the mechanism go is is the however the wording of the question needs to be to approve a $350,000
override that permanently increases the tax base, but that 350 the the housing of that $350,000 is something similar to the current capital stabilization fund. So, it restricts it. It leaves it. it. You can't go out there and hire two new
staff members, right? >> The money gets it's and in order to get the money out of there back into the general fund. It requires a 3/4 override. >> Yep. We could definitely do it that way and just put it right as into the capital stabilization fund. Um I would skipping ahead. I would probably think
about doing it under the fincom and I've talked about it before having fin. I'll just skip ahead to the slide. Um having fin >> it's got to be palatable because it's not going to pass. There's no you don't You don't put restrictions on it. >> Correct. >> This may be splitting hairs, but I don't know if we can actually word the
override in a provincial restriction. I think it's only earmarked for one year, but I think we would have to have a separate, you know, a separate I don't whether it's a modification of the bylaws, something that puts in permanent restrictions separate from the
override or is it a question every year? >> Well, ultimately the voters control the budget. If we're not putting that money towards capital, they can vote that in the budget. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my my recommendation I mentioned before is is combining the capital and the fincom.
There's a lot of positives to that. First of all, it's going to be more efficient. Um, the other thing is the fin, you know, fin. You see the entire budget, so you know how things work within everything. You also have budget presentation, so you can combine the capital with that. So, when the highway
department comes in, you know, you can look at their capital budget as well. on their in their capital request and essentially the budget under you know potentially could be under fin committee to decide what the year's expenditures would be or we could do it
you know the other way and do it as a the operational stabilization fund so um just going back to the uh Belure town um so if you look at you know they did a really good job especially with the public perception um with the marketing
and letting letting the public know where the money is coming from. So, and how it impacts everything. They were successful with their override. Um, and part of that again was the >> Yeah, where did it go? >> Just we're a little late in the game
here, but you paused the sharing of your screen, so Chris has probably been looking at the same. >> Sorry, Chris. >> There you go. >> And she can't unmute herself. >> You have to do that. >> There you go. So like Beltown for example, but I think we need a very clear
um a very clear explanation to the voters explaining this where the money is going to go, what it's going to be used for um and and how it's going to be spent um with that $350,000 part of it. I mean
the other option is I mean you know we can do it debt exclusions all the time but it's that's just no way to do a capital plan. it's just it would be almost impossible to to go forward with that. So, what what this would cover, you know, vehicles and equipment, you
know, basic building maintenance, um capital fund through three free cash would still exist, um and to supplement this. So, as I saw, you know, with the escalations, we might want to save up for a few different things. Um so, that's what this would cover. Uh what it
won't cover is it's just not enough money. It won't cover new buildings. It won't cover a public safety complex. I mean, that alone, the debt, the debt for the public safety complex will be well over a million dollars. Um, it's not going to cover major renovations or infrastructure projects like the bridge. Um, it's not going to cover Hampshire
Regional. >> That's going to be that's going to have to be a separate thing. >> Just want to call that out. >> Yep. Um, Hampshire Regional, they have their own capital improvement and emergency. So, so this is going to be, you know, the small things are okay and the big things would have to be debt exclusion. So, this would cover that
that area kind of in between, you know, the ambulances, the loaders, the Norris improvements, um, things like that. Uh, the other thing I did want to mention is, for example, the the Norris. So, when
you look at your sheet, um, a lot of this, a lot of the capital would be driven by Norris. And I do think that we need to start looking at um you know what do we do at Norris School over the next 5 10 15 and 20 years. Um Dan, our energy manager is is
putting together a comprehensive building assessment trying to get an engineer in there to actually look at the building. He's also looking for some green energy grants. I think that's going to be a good starting point, but we can start looking at other funding sources that's more available to like the schools. And I mentioned the MSBA in the past.
>> We got to throw our name in the ring now though. MSBA takes years. So, we should already have our name in the ring if we're looking at MSBA. >> Yep. And >> you got to have that plan, >> right? >> Well, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, if you look at, you know, $100,000 for carbra, you know, $90,000 for painting,
things like that where a lot of that's cosmetic, but we need to be able to look at that and before we start painting, doing carpet, like what if there's going to be a major renovation, we need to start figuring that. Like Lexington's $660 million high school and the state's paying 30% of it. >> Yeah. And that's >> well the the other issue is is you come
up with um bandwidth. Who's going to start looking at it? I mean I'll I'll sit here and argue all day that Norris is a department of this town. So it's up to the town hall to do the work. Especially since it's not spelled out in the central services agreement of 1966.
>> So a lot of it will be like you know short-term funding especially with Norris the water remediation the sidewalks things that will preserve the building. I think we need to start looking at other sources for the generator, for the HVAC, for the big things. There's still going to be a lot of green energy stuff for those types of things, but I think we just need to get
a comprehensive plan. And then there's other things that probably shouldn't be part of the capital plan. Like I would recommend their operational budget like the laptops and and the tech stuff. They should really have a line item for Norris. I technology is part of the schools now. It's just like books and
other things. And you know, I think that is >> a line item for the other departments. We have a capital improvement or for ours we do. >> Well, again, they are us. >> Yeah. >> Well, ours is $3,000. >> It doesn't matter, Scott. They are a department. They just happen to be the largest department within the town, but
they are a department of the town. So, I'd be opposed to hire holding them to a higher standard than we do our other departments. >> Well, I think they should have a they should have an expense line item for technology. They shouldn't be funded through capital.
>> Yeah. But but our current capital policy allows that to happen. >> So they're only operating within the confounds of the bylaws that the citizens have put forward. >> I wouldn't say that. I mean they sure >> it's because they let everything build up where they have to spend 20 grand on
laptops. So these should be taking a few thousand dollars and just circulating out laptops every year. So if you look at >> I would I would say the town does the same thing. Reference point number one the fire station. Reference point number two, the town hall, the old town hall. We just let it go, kick the can as far
as we can. It's just they're of such a size bigger than here, you know, like the I don't see the pumper anywhere. And that's $750,000. >> Uh it's not on the draft. >> Yeah, it's your FY36 fire engine, I
believe. >> Well, fire an engine is not a pumper. >> I'll double check with the uh I'll double check with the I think that was the pump. be but I'm just saying you know it yes their deferred maintenance sticks out more because of their size but they're
no every department head is doing deferred I mean random wears a sweeper you know we spend more money on contractual services than it would just to buy them >> yeah that's definitely part of this >> absolutely and the money that I mean that would be a combination of short-term borrowing and the money that he already spends hiring out
>> to fund the new sweeper >> and I know I'm I'm preaching to the wind here but you know I I am an advocate paid for the schools and it just seems like Norris is the punching bag every time a cut needs to come up and yes they're the biggest line item I get it but you know they continue to take the
hits for the past couple years and other departments have increased in their revenue in their expenses that's all >> yeah Stephen I'm sorry confess I should know the answer to this as a recently elected
water commissioner um our water department is an enterprise account. They frequently go out to borrow to fund their infrastructure investments. Does their borrowing,
say their credit rating, is it independent of the town or at some point are they actually part of the capital program as well? >> They wouldn't be part of the capital program because they're fee supported. >> They're they're bonding. Their bonding
is a >> whole new tab on you. >> Yeah, excuse their bonding is their credit rating is based on their rates that they collect. However, the back stop should they fail is the taxpayers of this town >> versus if the town was to the state
>> in an audit or you know an appendex. But um it's okay if you make an assignment to the department to get some data to you. We're working on it. It >> It's not going to be fixed.
>> One would argue as an inric It's easier for them to go out and borrow >> cuz they assuming they're >> and I think your model what you're talking about with the override it's it's a similar model to that because we're showing that we're bringing in this money. So that's how we're able we we're we're creating a revenue like the
enterprise fund just for you know layman's terms. So that's your kind of ideology. I feel like that >> and we're recovering indirect costs from them for all the time that the treasurer spends securing the borrow.
>> Yeah. But to to just continue on your bandwidth and to steal Reggie's thunder. Same thing with landfill. The taxpayers should not be subsidizing the landfill. It's an it's an independent enterprise fund. >> Mhm. >> Smaller than the water department, but
>> Right. Well, we wouldn't we wouldn't want to hear that the water department's doing something of great risk that's going to fail and that the taxpayers have to only have the money. >> Yeah. >> Not they're not covering anything by fees right now. >> Yeah. And it's a department of two
licensed professionals and and >> because an example isn't >> really fragile. Isn't the back the hit that we took the free cash wasn't a piece of that $30,000 related to the water department not not timely seeking reimbursement for their project and now
the taxpayers have to cover that. >> It was the $60,000 from four or five years ago that the town paid for that is never reimbured then >> for the water. >> Yeah. >> Right. But we're even though after that after that transaction we're we didn't
the town did not pay the 60,000. It just even things out from the prior year. >> No, they're the do is penalizing us on the right. Yeah. So do garnished. They they zinged us 60 grand >> from our state aid. They that's what they >> for free cash.
>> Free cash that. >> So So that's the um that's the capital. So there's still a lot of stuff. >> Can you unmute Chris? I think she has something she wants to say. Oh no, she's just waving. should be able to should be able to
>> Oh, she has to leave. >> Yeah, she had leave. Okay, >> let me unzoom. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, I haven't talked to Parker Cemetery yet, but I did get Roger uh Robert, you give me your we're going to sit down. So, so this is just our internal departments that we we were
talking about right now. So when we need to hire Tybon to do the next stage of engineering on the greenway, um we have a state trails grant to fund the majority of that, but we still have to do some local match andor
uh bill for reimbursement. I'm not sure how that goes. >> Mhm. >> So uh it's from our CPC is is that's setting aside the town's contribution level. Nice. >> So it doesn't come from our general fund. So we I think it's like a 20 it's like 15 or 20% off hand. So when we get a bill from time bond we take 80% from
the state and we get reimbured for that and then we take the 20% from the the CPC >> because that was authorized to town. Yeah. Okay. Got it. >> So we pay 10% we don't pay 100 whatever
it was. We don't pay 100%. Um so that's the the capital part of it. Um, so I don't know if there's any reactions or ideas. Again, this is all just, you know, it's conceptual at this point. I don't I'm not making decisions. It's
just an idea of looking out looking at all the different needs that we need. You know, the street sweeper, the loader, the sidewalk repairs at Norris, the water mitigation, um, police cruisers, all that stuff, and just seeing, you know, how could we potentially fund it? And, you know, how could we spread it out and borrow
against, you know, a set amount of money. So I I think it's possible. Again, the decision that's what goes where and when that's going to be a a moving target. Um I mean Randall Salt Shed could last 20 years. You put on the capital, it could fold over tomorrow. So
>> we have proper insurance for that, don't we? >> So not terrorist. So if something happened, you know, a ter >> policy is like $30 a year. What do you mean we don't have that? Hey, we're we're Penny mentioned. Aren't we still showing that diesel tank?
>> Oh, yeah. >> Mhm. And the inspection fees that go along with >> Yeah. Because we can't afford to dig it up. >> We got to cut our losses on that. That is an unquantified liability. And we ought to drive over the town line
or god city line to buy diesel and we need to crossing the county line. Lakota. >> That's still a different county. >> East find a diesel shop in East.
>> No, it's got to come from everywhere. >> So, what about there's never enough time cuz this is more of an 18 24 month project, right? What I'm about to propose again um
consolidations, you know, partnering with uh Mr. water commissioner, you know, outsourcing our water department to East Stampton's jurisdiction, paying them to handle it, >> is that equal to or less than what the current budget is, right? If it's a
savings and the rate payers are saving money, our highway department, should we be looking to either, you know, one of the hilltowns? Probably not. Or again, I go with East Hampton. Should we be looking to consolidate those two highway departments together? our highway with their DPW
>> police departments. >> I can tell you that I mean just from a wage perspective, they generally pay more. So if they were going to hire if we're going to take their employees and hire them is it's similar to what we saw with the fire department inspections. We have that grant where we worked with East Hampton. East Hampton was able to do our fire inspections for a year. So
they asked us if we wanted to renew them. Their the person that does inspections themselves earns significantly more than our fire chief. Yeah. >> So that person would be doing the inspection. So the amount of money that they gave us that they would continue when this wasn't feasible because they they're a bigger city. They pay more.
Not for that one thing, but just I don't know the number cuz it's not in front of me, but since you went with fire, if we're spending $2 million in general receipts to maintain the paid on call fire department with ambulance service,
>> could could we for $1.9 million get the same services from East Hampton? Now, my guess is East Hampton is going to say, "Sure, but you got to put a new facility in." But let's just assume we can wave the wand and and our uh good congressman Richie Neil will give us the money for
that. >> Just say that happened, right? >> After the midterms, >> maybe we should look at it. I mean, dispatching, yes, it's had its quirks and its angst, but it seems to be working. Our 911 calls are being answered. You know, we don't have police
officers doing dispatching anymore. So, and maybe it does cost a little bit more money over time, but I guess my thought is without doing the leg work to either validate it or invalidate it, how can we go to the
citizens and say, which I think this is a good idea if you can figure out how to restrict it. 350,000 for capital every year. This is how we're going to do it. But, you know, we've put so many restrictions in here that legally it can't be spent on library books, right? I mean, it it picked something other
than people. Okay. But at the same time, it sounds like we're looking for a half a million dollar override. Just just a very loose preliminary 1% of the numbers are accurate right now. The voters aren't going to go for this if we say we we've looked at everything else. We
we've ruled Yes, you said why don't we consolidate our our wire departments. Why? because of the argument of, you know, up until they hired the third person, which I'm assuming the third person is still there, but prior to the third person coming on, that second person was working 361
days a year. I mean, it it it I think regionalization is a two-way street >> and Westfield and Eastampton would regionalize out of the goodness of their hearts for for Southampton. They're going to make money.
>> Let's get it in writing. >> Let's get it in writing. So then we can go to John Q public and say this is why it doesn't work for us. Do >> well. I mean just just again back to the envelope. If if it takes 11 police officers to have 24/7 coverage in Southampton and their salaries are 20%
more than Southampton, there's no feasible way that >> But do we need do we need we only need 11 police officers in Southampton for 247 coverage cuz we need two units available. But could we have one car like Northampton and Florence used to do in
the old days? One Northampton cruiser was always in Florence, never allowed to leave the jurisdiction of Florence. But when they need that second car, it came out of the city. It came out of Northampton. Could we could we, and I'm not speaking for any of the police chiefs or anybody there. Just saying
would it be plausible to have one dedicated car that never left the boundaries of Southampton, but when that car needed help, East Hampton, who has maybe three or four cars out at a time, would say, "Yep, we understand, and we're going to go in and back up that officer." So now, in theory, we're doing with five and a half or six officers,
and having 24/7 coverage, knowing that your backup is right there. >> I still be concerned about response time. That's the other thing, you know, unless there's actually a facility. God, I hear you. But this is all talk. It's like we we need we need a study.
>> Yeah. >> Shows it all to so that we can go to the public and it's not just >> a study huge time and we just can't do the time right now to do an actual study and read. >> Well, that's why I'm saying 18 to 24month project. >> It's a little longer than that. Trust me, between zero college, the budget um
>> Well, you bring zero college every day. >> No, it's just getting started. So I mean yeah it's if we had the if we had the staff to do it absolutely and we had funding >> we owned it so >> and we can make good use of it. >> Well the benefit of owning the property
is those taxes now just got dispersed to every other taxpayer in the town. So >> well I mean is there any other cities and towns that have regionalized highway and police outside of small very small towns and we can copy that example that might be a good starting point. We can see that >> we are small. We are small but I mean we're talking you know 700 what what was
the um I think it was Otis that um their police department resigned overnight and they had to rely on state police. So I mean regalization >> volunteer I'm from goan we had volunteers >> I mean there's there's certain things that absolutely does make sense like you know Dalton regalizing their building department health department
inspectional services those are things that are uniform across multiple things they're they're doing mass general law health inspection I mean start with the small stuff the board of health of course we always planning building commissioner >> right so those those things are things when you talk about services like highway and police and fire that's
that's a whole different ticket items So, I mean, I don't unless there was We just don't have the resources to blaze the trail on that. >> No, but Pioneer Valley PPPC
could be a project for them. >> Mhm. >> And I think maybe to your point, John, maybe not at the Okay, police and fire, maybe that's two, but health building, all of those things. um like even bigger towns out, you know, on the other side
of Western Mass, they have regional health services with one regional department, >> right? And then they set it up, they set up where the offices within the town hall are manned every Wednesday, right? And those other days, you got to go to the other budding community for it. But again, veterans building, health, you know, library is technically
regionalized when you when you think about it with the, you know, CW bars and all the regional library. This is essentially regionalized. >> So that's not uncommon. And we can look at those types of things whereas you know the bigger things that's a whole different thing >> I guess >> they even tried regionalizing a town
administrator in in Lee >> Lee Linux and >> well prior to you that's what we tried to do in Westampton. >> So I I mean unfortunately that didn't work out too well. So I mean stuff has been tried in the past for regionalization but
>> people go ahead you >> along the same theme you know it's it's not a whole department it's not looking at regionalizing the police department but like ambulance services you know I think we should be considering or at least finding out if there are like
commercial enterprises that would be willing to take that over. So >> what we do there, so we have a company >> $600,000 ambulance. If that's something that can be privatized, it's something to consider. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
>> building the old >> I mean there's a lot of big cities that that have privatized ambulance and there's a lot of smaller towns that have privatized ambulance and some do it themselves. So >> we just did a study, we did a feasibility study because we are privatized and we're a bigger city. So we were looking at the opposite end of
the spectrum of you know giving our EMT and firefighters better jobs bringing in revenue. So it's you know I'm happy to share that study. So a lot of >> money and then if you do it internally you know what level of service do you probably just do basic or do you do the higher level and then that costs more to
do the higher level and you have to make sure that you're bringing the money to offset that. >> Yes. But again, you got to be careful what you ask for, and I think this was prior to your time, is the citizens did vote an override for two full-time paramedics around the clock. How many
full-time paramedics do we have today? I believe that vote was 3 years ago. >> We have the chief and one other. >> He's not a paramedic. He has an EMT. >> Well, actually, so might be paramedic now. >> No, so has an EMT certification. >> Paramedic. We funded two paramedics
>> and we only have one. >> No, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. So when when you go in, the citizens said, "Yes, I want to pay this extra money because this is the coverage I want." And three years later, >> we haven't gotten to that coverage level. >> I mean, we and the insurance alone for two full-time employees is going to be
$50,000. >> Okay. I go the other side of the argument. The taxpayers have been paying >> Mhm. >> for two full-time people, and we're only giving one. So, we're not giving a tax credit back because we failed to fill that spot. We repurpose that money
within the budget. >> Yeah. I I mean realist I mean the ambulance I mean it does lose money at this point. So the town does >> Yeah. >> fund the ambulance >> just >> is not self sustaining. >> No it's not. >> So >> I would argue it never was. >> No as I there would have to be
significant changes for it to be self. >> But it is it is a necessity. I we don't have a county ambulance >> right. So, >> but with like a catal right next door, you know what I'm saying? Like it it maybe it should be looked at because there are a few other privatized ambulance companies
close enough proximity that it might be advantageous to set up shop. We're talking a small town versus a $40,000 big city and we're right next door to them. >> Back to the operating challenge and how
to share the pain. You know, everything is driven by personnel related personnel costs benefits. >> Do I understand that your entire workforce plan is based on a step
increase plus a couple uh 1 and a half% increase across the board for the thing and then whoever is not at the top level will get an increase. Yeah. A step increase. >> It's just like with our highway, our police and our teachers, they have step increases. So the people that are maxed
out would nonetheless get one and a half. >> Mhm. >> If you're on the step scale still, you get the step and not or do you get both? >> Yep. So the entire scale moves and then you would do a step. >> That's similar to what we do with all our unit.
>> Thank you for reminding me. It's a little complicated, but >> but can we offer one or not the other? If they're getting a step increase, which is a significant raise, do we have to do the one and a half or something? I would do it every day. It's it's 40,000. >> You're also talking about the non union employees which is less than 20 people.
>> Yeah. >> That that's not the that's the 20% not the 80%. That's driving the bottom line. >> I mean teachers will be getting increased. Highway will be getting a step increase. Our um police department is going to do something.
>> Do as we do, you know. Yes. Our biggest expense is our elementary school and the regional school system. But um town government has taken a hit year after year after year and I'm not eager to run and
turn back the clock on the progress we've made on wages and equitable compensation. But if we have any leverage for the schools, it's we're making the cuts. You need to make the
cuts. same way you framed up the the health insurance issue. You may stay with the Hampshire County debacle, but you got to find the savings nonetheless. >> So, there's a lot of challen say there's
a lot of challenges coming up in the next year, especially with the budget and looking at, you know, other other what other communities do. I mean, I'm I would propose doing a budget task force working group because this is going to require a lot of in-depth looking at things.
>> Would this be all public meetings? >> It could be. It could be working. It's >> my two two out of four select board members that create a quorum. >> Uh two out of five. >> There's only four of us currently though. >> You're right. Yeah, maybe. Good point.
Um so I mean that's that's a whole different thing. But I think it's the the concept is just to get a group together that meets on a weekly or or bi-weekly meeting. You know, myself and and the school superintendent just to start saying, "Hey, >> you know, we we can pause these positions. You know, our offsets are are
coming above or or below or I think I would suggest you divide the uh the school committee, one from the local school committee and one from the regional. does one of the Southampton elected people at Hampshire Regional that is not on the local school committee.
>> Okay. >> Right. So you can because if you just do if you just do the two school committee members here then you're only getting two folks at Norris. Right. >> But like Carol Barkham's the only one coming to my mind right now. But I can I can see all their faces. Um
so this is just an I just want to go over example what South Aly has done. I think they they've done it successfully and I think it's a really good model. Can we duplicate it? probably not cuz it's they have more resources and more volunteers, but I think it's looking at what they've actually done um with their
task force. Uh sorry, you know, they they're very active. They do a lot of public input. Um they're very good with explaining, you know, what will happen with and without an override, what will happen with the capital stuff, where the money will be
going through. um they do a lot of external stuff, you know, things like this. Where are the, you know, why are we in this situation, where our revenues are, where our expenses are looking at? Um, so I mean, I think that, you know,
putting this together and showing the public what would be a pretty well, the more the more you can educate, the more you communicate, >> the more likely you are to to win some folks over. It's when the question just goes up and they've never really seen
anything on it. They're just by default going to vote in a negative fashion. >> Right. So, they've done, you know, a really good job. >> I would say do a Zoom option to make it, you know, to get people to join because if you're meeting in person, it's going
to be a hard ass for especially it's the people that are already involved are the ones that are going to be And the town's small too. So the number of people serving in in voluntary board positions is very it's probably less than half a percent of the town. So if
you're at, you know, half of that group has day jobs. >> Yeah. So that's uh >> So you're looking for feedback on your budget committee task force? >> Well, I mean just regionalization across all sections.
>> Let's just go back to county. Let's just go back to county government. >> Right. >> Hey, I'm open to think about anything. >> And at some point in industry, in insurance, banking, consolidation is the only way to stay ahead of the increased
costs. Yeah, >> it's happening all over the place, so it's not a bad idea. >> At least consider it. Are you proposing a hostile takeover of West Hampton? Well, I do think I do think there are neighboring communities outside of East
Hampton that I'm not going to name that are in similar situations that have department heads that are closer to retirement than our department heads where those current department heads have strong relationships together that
it might be the time to look at us regionalizing but possibly some of the I say the hilltowns but you It has to be concurrent though. You can't, as I found out when I looked at this, you can't jump over a community.
>> They have to be abundant in some way or you can create a ladder system to get there. But I again I don't think it hurts to have the communications with with the stakeholders and see if there's an appetite to move somewhere because if our DPW superintendent came to us and said
community X highway superintendent Y is going to retire and I really think this is a good opportunity and I'm in full support of this. As a select board member, I'm more willing to go in there and have the conversation if my department head is already in favor of it, you know.
Because the flip side of that is what happens when our department now our department heads are are relatively young across the board. Um but they're going to hit retirement age at some point and or they're going to be wheeled away to another community. Then what do
we do? You know, do we go out and look for somebody else? Generally, you're going to if you're going to not hire from within, you're going to pay more money >> to get somebody to come in. So, pay me now, pay me later. We could at least then say, you know, the the consolidation doesn't work and here's why. Or now is an opportunity to because
so and so just gave their six-month notice of retirement >> and every single community is looking for treasures, collectors. Oh, yeah. >> Every department head job across the state has vacancies. So, it's a it's it's a >> the treasure the treasure collector job
within a tri, you know, you know, Montgomery, uh, West Hampton, Southampton. If the three of those could get together, they're existing funds that they're using. You could have a a person department. >> Mhm. >> To handle everything and you probably
even save some money. >> Well, I mean, what happens when regionalization goes bad? >> You deal with it then. Well, you have great town administrators that keep an eye on this stuff. >> I mean, >> that happen to have a law degree and an HR background. >> Unfortunately, I mean, we have some recent
>> experience with regionalization, not going as we >> are you back on the trust. >> No, >> cuz that's a regionalization that went down. >> No, which what did we collectively spend on a forensic audit that didn't even come out with best practices? DLS had to
go on and give us best practices. It would be nice if we could unwind, but >> we have to do something. >> Yeah. I'm not advocating that. >> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
>> Well, we should get we should responsibly exercise our full share of the vote, full share of the influence. >> I don't disagree, but >> I don't know what forcing forcing. Well,
to me that sounds like forcing Hampshire Regional to take a drastic cut or hold a 2% line. Okay, that might work this year, but next year that that solution is not going to be on the table. That's a band-aid. We constantly put band-aids on. We're at the point where we we need to fix the
dam here. >> But you got to have all the puzzle pieces pulled together. >> Yes. And yes, it wouldn't be as >> I mean the realist realistically if you look what happened in Hadley with an override I think they went too high and
it got voted down. You look at Belchtown I think it's you know they put forward something and it was approved. I think it's a matter of there is the political aspect of it. You know you don't want to go too much and then have you get nothing. You don't want to go too low and have to do constant overrides year after year. So, it's finding that area
where the voters will approve something. It'll help, you know, remedy temporarily that structural deficit >> and it'll get by the voters >> and you know what could that number be. >> You know, we definitely know it's not
like cat where it's $2.8 million. So, >> it would be a blend of things, right? capital budget line the foreseeable increases from >> just like that school municipality capital improvement >> and we're okay creating this kind of
educational material because it's not taking a position it's simply clarifying but >> this actually comes from Beluretown's communication manager so you know we can do stuff like this >> yeah and if related to the budget to the numbers factual not this is why you vote
yes because >> you can you can advocate as a select board member. You can advocate for something. It's you can't use town resources. >> Well, that's building this report. This report needs to be neutral. Just it's just the facts. >> But so many committees got jammed up and they wouldn't even take the first step.
Who else could communicate better than the committee that work? >> So committees are allowed to advocate for something they vote for. Absolutely. It's just you can't use the town resources. That's the >> right. >> Anything else from the select board side? >> Thank you.
>> Thank you all. Any uh who who's your chair? >> My good talk if I have any. >> It's my job. >> It was a really good brief.
>> Silent but deadly Becky. You know, >> a lot of work went into that. I can tell. >> Are you are you are you able to um just send us that just so we have the the foundation start understanding that it's >> okay allow
>> I think from the select board's point of view I I think your vision of of a task force with some tweaking I I think we'd be in support of that. >> Yeah. >> I think it's a good idea.
anything transparency, educating the public and just it's there's a there's a gap in understanding it all and a lot's changed. So, I think anything that's going to help put out there what people are trying to do and solutions, not just
>> how do you propose to get the citizens selected? >> Just do a call out. I mean, I would love to have a couple regular citizens that haven't been involved in town government come and not only give their opinion but understand the process a little bit more. >> That's the secondary benefit, right?
>> Mhm. I think that's important. I think you know public outreach if you look at what um I mean look at what South Hadley >> Yeah. I mean they did um >> just Lake Sen former Maroy created all that. >> I mean they did community surveys. Yeah.
>> Um, and this is their information. >> Wow. >> Budget cut overview. And they've been working at this for years. We don't have years. So, will it will it be at this level? No. But over time, >> it could be in 3 years though. You know, our our first year might not be so
robust, but it's it I think it'll grow. >> But they present at town meeting. >> I'm looking at the moderator back here. >> Well, I was thinking town meeting would be a great recruitment place to throw it out there. I don't know if the moderator can speak about the task force because
the people that show up to town meeting are at least involved. >> Well, it we didn't have we didn't pass the bylaw, right? >> For the for the fin we did pass it. >> Yeah. So, the moderator actually appoints the members of that committee now. >> Oh, for has to be approved by the AG.
>> Oh, well, we're our attorney general is busy with some other things going besides our bylaws. >> Yeah. >> I I think that's a good point. I I do think at least for this budget cycle that's a little too late. We really need as challenging as the numbers are, I
think educating the voters is even a just a a larger task. There is just a lot of opposition to overrides and to increases to the town revenue. So we have to hit the ground running.
>> Yeah. But the more stuff we put on the website, the more educational materials, the more transparent the the the doors are here, it it starts breaking that gap >> or or filling it in. >> Especially the transparency. There's there's definitely a faction
that's >> looking to sniff out why, you know, why is this sneaking in in a special meeting? What's >> I mean, we also have to make it palatable. I mean, this is what Belure Town did for their they did a video. things like this. Well,
>> in this video, we'll look at how to calculate the tax rate in Belure Tower for FY26 with and without the Prop 2 and a half. The first thing you need to know is what your home's assessed value is. You can find this by looking at your most recent
tax bill or visiting our website. Oops. For this example, we'll use an assessed property value of $266,500. Now you need to calculate the taxable value. To do this, divide your assessed value.
John's point earlier about the EMT. They voted for it 3 years ago. We still haven't delivered. So, we have to fix those types of things before we build trust in this community. We have to we have to address where we've fallen short, correct it, and and move forward in my >> Yeah. And I would say, you know, just to
be clear, um, so I don't get nasty text messages once this video goes live. It's not for a lack of try. You know, Chief Lone is trying to fill the role. It's finding another qualified person to come in that in all honesty wants to print
themselves in that working condition for 40 hours a week. >> But then we need to report on it monthly and say, "Hey, you know, we're still looking. We haven't." So at least the answers are there. >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, realistically, with that position, we're not going to be able to fund it. >> Looking at a $500,000 deficit, we can't
hire a new person and fire, you know, terminate them because we can't afford it cuz we're still supplementing the fire department. >> So, that's where I have a problem. That's where I have a problem because 3 years ago, we got an override to do it. So, we in theory, now I get >> this wasn't there wasn't enough money.
>> It was enough to fill those two spots. We chose to re repurpose that money >> in year two. I mean soft cost >> which statutoily you can do. I I get it. But from the voters's point of view, you asked me, I proved it and I gave you the money for it and you chose, not you,
Scott, >> but the body chose to shift that money in year two or year three somewhere else. And now you're coming to me again saying, "I need more money." You don't know. The body, I don't want to meet this person. The body doesn't know what it's doing. you know, and if I'm an outsider and I'm
a taxpayer and I'm a business person, I'm like, I wouldn't tolerate this in my day-to-day job. So, I'm not going to No, I'm not I already there's a big mistrust of municipal government anyways, not just not just Southampton, just across the board. So, it it's hard.
And yes, everybody sitting here understands what happened and where we got to and how we got slammed with back-to-back 20% increases, but the average taxpayer I I if you asked them last year who our current health insurance provider was, I don't think people are going to figure out it's in
the second floor in Northampton at the old courthouse who doesn't have an executive director anymore, but hired two outside consultants to come in and do a study, but yet there's nobody in charge. Well, this summer, so after the override failed, there were people that were surprised at the cuts they were having
at Norris. They had they had no idea, you know, what the failed override would actually result in. Um I think there was some ad hoc attempts to educate what the potential costs were, but um what the what the shortfall was going to result
in, but still like I think there's a big gap there. Yeah. And >> I think as we approach this budget, one of the things that we need to really convey is, you know, what are the hits and how will it be felt if you know the additional funding isn't met?
>> Yeah. >> And and put out there the potential like what does that mean if the override doesn't passes? What are the services that are going to what's possible, you know? >> Mhm. >> Okay. Well, the time is 8:05. 8:03.
Does >> our town administrator need to us between now and >> Well, I mean, we still got to do the regular budget regardless of budget task force. So, I wanted to just send out some schedules to get the departments to start doing their budget presentations and meetings and things like that. So, this
>> are they ready to give presentations? >> For on the town side, it's going to be very very much repetitive from last year. just explain the increases, where they are, what's needed. >> So maybe in the in the in the interest of time, would it be would it be
plausible for them to submit their budgets with a narrative and then based on the narratives, we select who to call in? Not nec because again, if it's flat same over year over year, then do we need to spend 30 minutes
>> talking with the building commissioner about permits? Well, I think it's I think it's also an education on what what the departments do and and for the public because they're going to be recorded and posted on the website so they can actually go over the line items and you know, they may not be large line items, but at least the public knows
what what the money is going to be spending it on and there might be questions regarding that. I think it's important it might be it might be a 10-minute might be able to do 15 in a night. >> It never is. up being five nights of three-hour sessions
>> of the same thing that was said last year. But I hear you. >> We'll give them a timeline. >> I know. I mean, it's also, you know, it's a it's a way for the departments actually to go before the stock board, too, and talk about >> I think that's important. >> So, and it's not just necessary budget,
but they can talk about initiatives and, you know, things like that. So, >> Scott, with a half a million dollar deficit, are we asking the department heads to come up with a contingency budget? >> Well, th this group would have to make the
cuts, >> the input from the department. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> So, I guess that would be one in the in the past when we've asked them to come in, it's like, here are questions we ask. Well, >> we're proposing there's a half million dollar issue. you should be prepared to
answer the question, we need a 3% cut from your budget. Where is it coming from? And how is that going to impact the citizens? >> The reality is if we have to cut a couple hundred,000 from the town side and similar with Norris, you know, they've been cut to the bone. We've been cut to the bone. If you look at our our
we have two part- timerrs and assessors. We have one person in health. We have one person in building. We have one and a half in town administrator. We have one and a quarter in in town clerk. We have one full-time and and half grant-f funded in COA. We have five We have one
full-timer in library, four part- timerrs, and that's probably even before at this point with Johanna retiring. Um treasures, we have >> Didn't she just take over? >> Three years a couple years ago. So, I mean I mean in treasures we have three people. Accounting one and a half and
veterans we have part-time work. So, I mean, cutting $100 from Lucy's um budget and for her office supplies isn't going to >> What would it What would it look like if we went to a 3-day work week? I mean, that eliminates all benefits. No
full-time employees. >> I mean, then you wouldn't get your health inspections. You wouldn't get your building inspections done. >> We're already at you wouldn't have any employees. >> We're already what the core services are. And there's going to be different levels. There's going to be the external social
services. There's going to be the social the services to the residents. And there's going to be the core public safety, fire, police, and basic finance administration. Those types of things. >> I think the challenges of the cuts are are pretty clear. But I think we need to tell that story.
>> Yeah. Well, in advance, >> we're going to have um salary line for a hired treasurer, appointed treasure. Okay. We had carried a lot of wage lines
for highway unfilled possessions with the hope that you know, lightning would strike and somewhere during the year those would be filled. not being able to fill them. Of course, we went back to get that wage money and those benefits
money. I don't recall exactly cannibalizing the um PMT thing. I think it played out incremental. I think we just didn't have a qu they held off a little bit to figure out
how they were going to handle it with not necessarily staffing but the process and then a qualified candidate came forward internally and and chief was put that person forward and they got hired. It's the other per if there is one another internal
candidate hasn't come forward. So trying to get an outside candidate to come in when they're looking at the town's deliberate actions of failure on overrides shows why do I why am I going to leave this town >> to come work for this town when this is how they treat the facilities that I
have to work in >> right >> and and we should own up to the fact that we don't have to but the reason is and >> our commitment is whatever we come up with good all right I'm not sure I got an
assign assignment. But >> so I mean so it's just a matter of I mean I think meeting with I would recommend meeting with the departments talking about it and you know talking about potential cuts and where could they cut? There's not a lot of meat on the bone like the cut and the reality of the situation. >> Do you want participation with the
department heads from the finance committee and select board? >> Yes. >> Oh yeah be the joint meetings. when when can we have all the material to us to digest prior to going into a meeting? >> I mean, I I can sit down I I already sat
down with other departments to get most of it's very similar to last year. There's not a lot of changes in the budget. Um so I can send you what you know my budget draft right now that I haven't sent everyone that reflects a basic level funded. Now >> again with the with the if there is
going to be an override you know I think there is some considerations we need to look at as well. So it shouldn't be just, you know, things that will increase operational a little bit. >> Yeah. You know, it >> I haven't looked at Bradley's last report that came out, I think earlier this week or last week, but does he have
the real does he have the current budget numbers in there yet where you can where we can see >> Okay. We were budgeted to collect $15 million and we're more than halfway through the year, but we've only collected 5 million. >> Is that in week or two? So that's when
be calculating the revenue. the year to date half the six month >> because if I'm looking at the budget request for next year I want to see what they what they got this year what they've already spent >> is it is it on par behind schedule ahead of schedule >> on certain things and then that makes for more >> oh the expenditures that's that's all up
to date >> the expenditures are yes but I don't believe the budget numbers sitting there so I can you can see like hey you know >> 60% like >> is it there okay >> so so I just want to understand what our
what we're trying to do. Are we going to budget to no override or are we going to budget to a number that would require an override? >> I >> because I think our charge Yeah. our charge is probably to do both. >> Not not just say, "Oh, we got a problem.
We we can't fix it." >> I I think with working with the schools, we need to come up with an idea of what a non-override budget is going to be and where those cuts are going to be. And I think we have to agree what a reasonable override budget number for an override could be that the voters would approve
and kind of work backwards on that. Is it 500,000? Is it 2.5 million? Is it 1.5? And assuming also including capital in that. So, >> so do we want to look for the public meetings with department heads to happen the second half of February because by
that time the the the initial number for Hampshire regional will be out and if I remember right whatever that number is it can't go higher >> right >> when does the states come out the end of January >> okay >> I mean the better idea we can have on
Hampshire regional's number >> I mean that that's that's the biggest unknown right now even more health insurance. If it's the 10 or 15% that's going to be killer. >> Well, right. And they're currently planning on 15% hoping. It's not that high. >> Well, >> I know. But Don's got to prepare her
budgets, too. I mean, so she's got to get a number in there. >> I mean, but you know, that's a that's everything is at that point. And I mean, it would be great if I know I mean, all the other towns are in a similar situation as we are. We're looking at, you know, we have a little bit control over Morris working with the school
committee getting some things. We don't have as much control under the regional. Correct. >> But are they put on notice that money's very very tight and you need to be >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. >> I think that the meetings that I've been
at, I think the five towns have at least the select boards and finance committees have shared said that, you know, we'll see what comes out of it. Um, so
I mean there is a >> Are we done? >> You got to go first. >> Oh, well, >> do you guys have a question you need to take off? >> Well, we just we have minutes. >> We'll do that. >> So, we have to post them.
>> Do we have to vote on a recommendation for the one article for the special meeting? >> Do we >> on January 10th? Yeah, we should. >> Otherwise, we're going to have to >> meet again. >> Yeah. >> I don't even know what it is. >> Scott, do you have >> you have a question?
>> Yeah. >> Good thing is it's a single question. >> Scott, while you're bringing that up, maybe answer one question because I want to make sure I understood correctly. Did we have borrowings tracked as overrides that
were not overrides? They were just straight borrowing or was it the reverse? >> It's not a straightforward question. >> It's fair. >> So yes and no. So
when when I do the budget and and calculate the the levy limit, we look at what the debt exclusions are. So some of them weren't properly recorded or input all the way. So we've since went back and looked at all the >> with the state or in our tracking of the
budget >> in with the state. >> With the state. >> So they were actual overrides but were not submitted. So we weren't getting the additional levy >> some of it. Yeah. So three out of the originally six, three out of the five were recorded and then two weren't
>> which is part of what's causing this to happen, right? >> A little bit. Yeah. So I mean you're talking about you know the chair sheets free cash all that stuff is essentially wrap all that stuff together. DLS says you have to cut X amount to level it off is that that's the end result.
>> Thank you. >> So does somebody want to make a motion support? I have no idea what this is all about. >> This the state is making us reduce the FY26 budget so that we can have a balanced budget because of revenue shortfalls.
>> So by how much? >> So So in in November, so after the assessors get all the reevalues done, um they send the question out to the select board whether or not they want to do the dual tax rate. That's voted on by the select board. So obviously it's like where does the the single tax rate from
that point in early December what Dave our assessor does is take all that information he submit it to the do to um confirm what our evaluations are. Once we have that, that's then shipped off to Bradley and Bradley says, "Okay, we're
gonna these are our valuations. This is our new growth. This is all everything is right here. These are our cherry sheets money that we're getting in." Things like, sorry. And they submit everything into the DLS the portal to make sure everything's, you know, balancing out. Um, so one of the things,
you know, we were kind of red flagged because last year we include all the offsets like the Norris offsets. So we include Norris offsets of 750. So he looked at it and said, "Okay, well, why is your budget 1.5 million over it?" So they looked at it, we explained it to them that we use offsets. They recommended we do it a little bit
differently this year, which we were going to do. Um, but there's a separate line item for the offsets and things like that. Um, so then they looked at like things like our revenue, um, you know, our free cash, things like that. And they looked at our revenue. For example, our, um, our new growth is
significantly down. So over the last couple years, it's been over $200,000. Uh last year we budgeted 180 as an estimated revenue growth. With the override last year in the Nor school, it's finding that middle ground and with override failing, we knew it was going
to be a razor thin thing cuz if we overestimate, we're in this situation. But if we underestimate and we don't have the revenues and we're getting another Norris position cut or something else. So we so it came in close to $100,000. So we were expecting
it to at least last one more year over $200,000. The other thing with our overlay, which is the amount of money that we're not going to be collecting, the 5-year average was 97,000 and we're going to be closer to 130 this year and then next year it's going to be 150,000. So things like that, they're coming in
to saying you got to reduce your spending to to fit underneath that. They did try to work with us. So things like our our cannabis revenue that's going to probably be closer to like 175,000 but that was you know there's always a little bit of wiggle room because you don't have all the numbers when you submit your budget you know state aid
things like that. So they do allow a little bit of wiggle room um but it was just way too much. So they've looked at like the cannabis like okay it's probably going to be more but you know $25,000 is not going to offset that amount. >> So they asked us to reduce the budget >> by
195. Is there a total on the next page? >> That's what I was going to ask. >> Uh 195,000. >> So, but is it on there >> or >> uh No, it's not on there. >> So, what would the motion be? The motion would be to recommend um that the finance committee recommends to put
forth the warrant to the town meeting. >> Recommends approval to either vote to approve or vote to deny this reduced to 26 budget by these particular amounts on these categories. >> Yeah. So, I'll put a motion to approve
the $195,000 um warrant. >> Okay. I'm sorry to interrupt, but we we should make the motion to recommend >> to recommend >> because we're not approving it. We do carry forward our recommend >> recommend question one as stated
>> if you don't want to read word for word as stated on the document. >> Okay. I I'll second that. But I I I have a question. Could we put the total the totals up there >> cuz I think that would I mean I'm trying to do it in my head but I think it would be nice to have the
>> Yeah, I can um I'll I'll >> just one number you know >> it's it's this column right here. >> Yeah, >> I'll put it down here. >> Do you need to note the question? >> So the Becky and Reggie >> to make the recommendation for the
$195,000 >> to support to support the article for you wanted the dollar amount in though for >> do you know the exact total >> it's 195 >> for 195 >> all right thank you
>> and you second >> I did second >> all in favor >> I was painful right are you guys ready to >> we are ready Motion to adjurnn. >> Make a motion to >> second it.
>> All in favor? >> I >> I chair will entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move by Steven. >> All in favor? >> I. >> This government meeting is brought to you by Eastworks and our local cable
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