This government meeting is brought to you by Eastworks and our local cable subscribers. I'm going to call to order the meeting of the Southampton Select Board for December 23rd, 2025 at 6 o'clock p.m. Uh
we have our select board present here. Uh everybody's here. Scott's here and our town moderator and I see our town clerk as well. So, um, we're we're here and have a quorum. Uh, let's, uh, say the pledge of allegiance as usual, please.
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of America >> and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God under God, indivisible, liberty, liberty, justice, and justice for all. >> Thanks.
>> It's impossible to get uh, unis unity there on that, but that's okay. Oh, let's hear for cats. >> Yeah. Yes, we have a free a cat added to our our thing here, too. Um, so yeah, I think uh Scott, we're going to turn it
over to you. We we've had some issues, I know, with the Department of Revenue and uh Department of Local Services trying to help us out with getting ready for our tax recap and uh a few obstacles along the way. So, we'll let you take the uh take the lead on this, please. >> Yep. Um so this is basically the
absolute last uh resort. Um after the the tax um hearing in November uh our assessor Dave had uh gotten all the uh evaluations approved in early December. Uh and then Bradley started um uploading into the DLS. There's a there's a portal
and there's a lot of different there's about five or six pages where you have to upload your budget and your estimated revenues, new growth, things like that. Um after about a week, week and a half, uh DLS had some questions about our budget just because a lot of the things that we did this year were a little bit
different from the previous years. Um things like our um you know that you know we put like um the offset money into the budget that that Norris School generally uses and you know the 175 that we use for the police grant uh the council on aging things like that. So it
took uh it took them about a week week and a half for us to go with DLS. uh they were actually really good. They we walked through everything with them multiple times and they they finally understood what we were trying to do and they uh they allowed us to enter into uh other new other revenues uh to kind of
just solve that issue. Um they've been actually really good throughout this entire process. Um we spent hours and hours with them. Um moving we moving forward after that we were able to uh continue to upload everything. Um couple of the things of concern that they
actually had started to bring out was uh our new growth estimates as well as our overlay accounts. Um new growth is what we estimate to be uh in the upcoming fiscal year. Um last year due to the override and the tight budget, you know, we kind of entered it into, you know,
knowing that it would be a very thin year um and hoping that revenues were going to maintain. Um and I'm sorry. Um and then uh you know, we've been monitoring things. Um I was more concerned when we did that based on
like the drop in revenue and like our ambulance receipts and things like that than new growth. uh we estimated about 180,000 in new growth last year and uh it's been about half of that uh for the upcoming fiscal year. The other thing is our five-year overlay account which is
the account that we estimate um things from tax abatements to non-payment of t of taxes uh special programs uh areas that we're not going to receive the tax money for. Uh the 5-year average was about 97,000 and this year it's going to be over 125 130,000.
Um, so generally with the DLS, they they work with worked with us in the past. You know, we're able to kind of move estimates a little bit just to balance everything. Um, they actually suggested a few different areas that we could look at increasing our revenues like our our cannabis tax is one of the few ones that
are actually going to be uh increasing this year. Um, last year we estimated about 150. Uh, it looks like it's going to be on track to be about 175,000 this year. Um so but that that wasn't really enough and they weren't comfortable
moving forward with with that. Uh one of the other things that we found out was our debt exclusions. Um so every time that the um the voters approve a debt exclusion. So if you're going to go long or short-term borrowing like zero call it byway um
that's uh there's a special place that we have to upload the the votes and everything. Um it looks like a lot of them weren't uh accounted for. So, we were able to work with Lucy, the town clerk, uh Megan and Bradley. They were able actually to jump into action and they were really dedicated the last
couple days to put everything together. Um, so it turns out we It's still a little bit confusing, but since 2019, we purchased four dump trucks, two three of which were ballot questions, one of which did not go, and then one of them had to be revoted at a
special town meeting because of the amount. Um, so it was pretty confusing, but thanks to Lucy and and Megan to kind of um unclutter everything. Um, they've since everything's been uploaded, BLS has approved everything. I think I just saw Brad and um,
>> all of that capital stuff precedes both you and Bradley, correct? >> Um, some of it. I was only here for Zero College. Um, the other borrowing that we're doing was the um, the highway garage, but that's not uh, debt exclusion. So we have uh one debt
exclusion that actually goes back that's that we thought was dead exclusion is not going to be that exclusion. So, is it fair to summarize this whole project as DLS in their oversight function? I'm trying to be kind. um is
saying that due to changed conditions since we voted the budget um we must revise down our revenue estimates other adjustments and revote this. Um,
yeah. So, Bradley, uh, Bradley just he came on and off, sorry, he could explain a little bit better, but yes, so ultimately, um, Deb Wagger, who's the head of the DLS, um, she tried to work with us, but she said basically whatever is voted on at annual town meeting needs
to match what the actual budget is. So, it's one thing when most cities and towns where if you have like a city council, they can just make the adjustment um, with a regular meeting. Uh but with being a special town meeting uh being a town meeting government, we actually have to have another vote to to
make the reductions to balance it out. >> So two things um Scott just for clarity. So tying in a little bit to what maybe Stephen was alluding to. So the the debt for the u the dump trucks, this was all like 1920 21 something like that. So
long before anybody was was around that that dealt with that, right? Any I mean you and Bradley and Megan and whomever. >> Okay. >> So >> So that we've gotten corrected now or >> Yep. So layer B is a dead exclusion. Uh
two dump trucks was a dead exclusion. Zero collage was a dead exclusion. We also had another loader that was a dead exclusion. And then we had one um one other dump truck that failed at the ballot that I thought that we were actually borrowing for, but it turns out
to be another dump truck that we went to again and was a nonb exclusion. >> Okay. I remember if I remember some of these just about all of these I think were combination dump truck snowplows if I'm
not mistaken. Um, going back there, I mean it, you know, >> I think they they were a dual function kind of thing. And I think at one point I I remember we we had on one of our articles, I was looking back at some of the ones from the past and at one point we had taken some free cash money to pay
the debt for a dump truck at one one year too. So there's there's a little bit of confusion that happened on that dump truck, whatever, or couple of dump trucks. But if that's clear up, that's that's good. Now, so are we then um our total budget will be the same? It's just
that our estimate for new growth and so forth has to be lower than what we put in there. Is that what we're saying? >> Uh we actually have to reduce the budget because the uh the revenues would be reduced. So I would um what I'm proposing is
let me share my screen here. Uh they actually recommended actually doing a little bit more uh cuts. So it's about 195,000. None of this will will impact services. It's all money that we I was just telling Robert before even got on that. Uh we we did try to talk to
DS that and we promised that we weren't going to spend the money to try to avoid a town meeting at all cost. Um even Pinky Pinky promising that we weren't going to spend it, but they still said that we had to uh move forward with it. So um these are the this would be the revised budget in the specific areas of
operation on the personnel and none of this would u impact the um the functions. So the the town administrator that's the u land use planner the accountant uh wages going to have a little bit of money in there. Uh the treasure
collector um with uh Megan uh working less hours and part-time uh that's going to be less. Uh the fire department is going to be able to um postpone one of the positions. Um highway was a uh $25,000 uh position that we weren't going to
fill till January anyways, but with the um the person just resigning, you're probably not going to get to that. Uh vocational tuition. Um that's actually we're we're actually running in the black on that one. So we're going to be probably about $88,000 um this year with a little bit of
reduced um enrollment. Um, so but I I didn't I wanted to leave a little bit of w leg wiggle room. And then uh the police department um Ian was able to make some reductions. Um he's got that part-time spot open u as well as a few contracts that he wasn't going to renew like for the the sign boards and things
like that. >> Yeah, John question. >> So Scott, I'm having difficulty reconciling the vocational tuition. So approved fiscal year 26 budget is 1.97 and you're suggesting or recommending
1.92 difference of 50,000. But when I look at Bradley's fiscal 26 report that he just sent out, the budget number in there is 1.182 million. So to me there's an $800,000
discrepancy. Oh, Bradley just uh Bradley, can you just address that? >> The cut was to vocational tuition and I did the budget of what we've paid so far based on the two invoices that we've
received and I saw I don't know again I don't know in the calendar year 2026 if there's more type of invoices coming our way. >> Right. But I'm looking at
an email from from you, Bradley, dated December 18th that had the uh fiscal year 26 expenses. >> Then what's the budget for vocational tuition? >> It is um hold on one second because I just lost
it. 1,182,733.69. 69. >> And you're saying that Scott's chart is wrong? >> Well, well, I I don't know which one >> because I tend I tend to believe the
>> there something's different. If if Scots is at one nine, we've got a serious issue there. >> So, what what's what's what's not reconciling? It's it's obviously not not the same figures if the if we're looking at the correct line for vocational tuition, >> right? >> Sorry. So
>> that's actually my uh so the town direct school costs are 1.97. So remember we lumped those all into one line line item last year. Um so the the total indirect uh direct school costs are 1.79402. And um let me just I don't know if you
can see my screen. Uh uh yep. So vacational tuition is 1.141653 and local school transportation is 399142
and vocational transportation is 66402. So, we're cutting a combination of of vocational and transportation for Norris. >> Um, well, we we it'll just be for the uh tuition the tuition side.
>> Yeah, but if we budgeted 1.182 for vocational and you want to take 50,000, which is not the equivalent of one student. So, that's just a random placeholder number to make this all work, which causes me to believe that This is fictitious math and we're still
going to have a problem knowing that last year we only had three invo three out of four invoices v for vocational and we had to make it up. So my my confidence in this number is very low. So
what what Bradley did he looked at the bills and obviously we're not going to it would be very rare if we had any additional students. There's going to be a surplus of about 88,000 in that. So, I only wanted to take 50,000 from that. >> So, why is there a surplus though, Scott? And you're saying a surplus in
what? In vocational tuition. >> Yes, that's correct. Because uh because we we set the budget early, so we don't have the actual tuition until the around the summertime when the lotteryies and everything is completed. So, it looks like we have a surplus now,
but we may run into it in May or June or sometime before the end of the fiscal year. No. >> Uh, probably not because because there's a special entrance to to participate in the vacational tuition. So, it should be steady throughout the year.
So, does the 88,000 roughly less does that represent the equivalent of a student? One person, >> Bradley, >> or John or Bradley? I mean, I don't know who who knows the figures better, but
>> Scott, I don't know if you have my file that showed the payments to vocational tuition and what I projected would be the available amount. >> Um, I can try to bring it up. Which file was your brother?
>> I might have sent you a detailed report of the account. I also had an Excel file that showed my math for a bunch of the budget cuts. Bradley in Scott summary the vocational
tuition indicates it's general ledger and general ledger something 5690 is that a summary line is that part of the source of our confusion
>> that's the ge line in our expense report. >> Is it a roll up of sub accounts? >> It should be just one account, >> right? Okay. And and Stephen, >> I just want to make sure we're level set, >> right? No, that's my point, Stephen.
That that GL number 01320-5690 is showing an approved budget in Scott's memo of 1.979 million. But on the report, if I find that that identical account number on whatever page this is,
page three of 10 013205690, vocational tuition allocated 1.18273369. So there's the 800,000. Now, if the 1.9 is an actual rollup number, okay, but let's not call it the vocational
tuition. That's the heart of it as I understand it, which is only a little bit. Right. So what what you're looking at here, Scott, I'm assuming this is a combination. If I four, six, seven.
So the 1.9 is the accumulation of th of these four GL accounts. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Looks like it. And you're and and I'm just saying if if we're if we're going to take a vote to reduce tuition
to the vocational schools, which I'm assuming, you know, I I trust Bradley if he did the math and, you know, it's 41 $47,000 per student, x number, whatever it is. But I think we should be referencing the 1.198 and reducing that by 50,000
>> versus a cumulative number that actually impacts these four lines. The the problem is that we we voted it as one line under the um the total budget, the town direct school costs. So there's there's sub lines that we
budgeted for each specific um area, but in total that's how much um the town direct school costs were. >> Well, okay, then go the other way. It should be labeled town direct costs and not vocational tuition. >> Yes, right.
Yeah, that would make more sense. At least it's clear that it's coming out of that line, right? If that's the way we presented the vote, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Tuition is the detail explanation, but the header has to match
>> has to match. >> Yeah. So out of those direct costs, if I'm understanding right, we're taking 50,000 total, which is basically coming out of the subline of vocational tuition because we believe we are at least a student less than what was projected. Is
that correct? Uh yes. Yeah. >> Bradley. All right. Did you find you don't have your your spreadsheet, do you? >> No, I don't. Again, all I saw was two invoices in the first
uh six months of fiscal year 26 and they clearly stated how much we owed for each. So I projected >> Bradley, can I just ask you the two invoices that you saw? Were they two, if you can recall, were there two invoices
from Smith or >> one was Smith, one was Westfield, I think, or am I confused? >> No, you I would I would suspect that you would have seen one from each. >> Yes. So the question is are there
additional invoices from other areas, other vendor, whatever you want to call them. >> Yeah. >> No, I believe it's Westfield and Smith and we get build in three increments. >> Yes. So that's how I based how much it would be available at the end of the year.
>> Gotcha. Okay. >> Yeah. Those would be our only two vocational uh vendors as such, right? Yeah. There's nobody else besides the one in Westfield and Smith folk that we're using now. >> Correct. >> And in order and and there could be, but
it would require a special vote of the select board for us to make an authorization outside so we would know about this. >> Yes. Okay. Mhm. Okay. I think that's clearer. Yep. >> Sorry. >> No, good good catch because I think that
alleviates a little bit of confusion there. I think that would have been difficult. Yep. Okay. So then what? So the all these reductions in that first column that's coming up to the total of how much,
Scott? Sorry. You're muted, Scott. How much is it going to be? Sorry. >> Uh that comes out to 195,000. >> Okay. And that's that's giving us a little bit of a margin. That's a little bit more than what they were requiring us to do. Is that right? Um though I
mean they would always they would always want more. Um but this would satisfy DLS. >> This would satisfy them. Okay. >> And so if we were to to represent this then this is what we have to represent.
Is it just this this amount? We don't have to go through the entire budget again at town meeting. I mean this it's just this summary sheet. >> Right. So, I I talked to um both DLS and um our our town council and uh both of them suggested keeping it as simple as
possible um and just listing the um the the language which comes from Michelle and then just what the actual cuts are line by line. So, as far as the call to action for tonight, is it to approve article one
and additionally call for a special town meeting on January 10th? >> Uh, that's correct. >> Okay. And we decided January 10th is going to be that's a Saturday. Is that right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I second that.
>> Okay. So, let's let's have an actual actual motion though. Go ahead. Let's go ahead and John, do you want are are we ready to make a motion or is there more to explain, Scott, or is that >> um that's about it? >> Yeah, >> I just have one more one more question,
Chris. >> What I got in the email um I'm sure it's fine, but just tell me the difference why the police department was at it for 17,700. And and just I understand I think I understand DLS wanted us to go more.
That's why that's in there. What does that physically represent within the police department? >> Uh that is um I can bring that up for you in one second. >> Yeah, while you're looking that up, I you know I get that the you know the
fire department that's the second paramedic that we're not hiring that we got voter approval two years ago to do. >> Not that I'm opposed to hired. Yeah, >> we've only hired one paramedic, I believe. Yeah, full-time. Yeah.
>> Uh, so the um that would be, sorry, I just minimized it for a second. Um, most of it is, uh, department wages, um, a,000 from department expenses, uh, 4,900 from equipment maintenance, which is like those boards that they utilize that
police chief's not going to be renewing the contract, and 1,500 from the building expenses. So, the piece that's coming from wages, are we getting a a reduction in staff? Are, let me ask it this way. Approving this or moving forward with this, will
this cause us to go below the minimum two officers on per shift around the clock? No, that's uh that's a reserve spot for a um an officer who's currently serving in the military and will likely be returning as um um
partly part-time. >> Gotcha. The chief had budgeted that into his uh into his account. >> Yep. So, now that we've got a motion, a second on the floor, I just want to say that um none of this makes me feel good
at all. But again, I think this is um 80% a rotten hand that we were dealt, not of our own making. And um you know aside from bookkeeping from years
bookkeeping generally um this revision downward of our revenues is really not our fault. I don't I don't perceive it that way. I I didn't get a sense that we had been overly aggressive
in estimating anything. It's just a downturn in the economy affecting all communities. And the fact that we have to go to a town meeting breaks my heart because it's such
>> it's not just um monetary expense, it's the um opportunity cost, it's the social capital cost. It it grieves me. Mhm. >> But this is apparently what we need to
do. We have to follow the law. And so that's why I moved in along. We can all cry in our drinks, but I don't know that it's going to change anything. >> Yeah. Well, I think we're we're not the only town facing some of these same
issues. And what I gathered from your discussion, Scott, is that, you know, just from the DLS point of view, as they look at the fiscal situation in general, and also, you know, state money, federal money, all those kinds of things, they're just wanting us to be more
conservative than than usual, I guess, in terms of our estimated revenue. What was a little bit confusing was that I thought that they were encouraging at one point the assessors to actually raise their their levels of new growth. And
for some reason, I guess I had that impression. But now we're we're saying that this is based on actual um reality of what new growth has been this year. Our new growth has not been much. And that's both new home construction as well as adding on a a
deck or new something or other, right? So that's that's where we're we're down like 60%. Is that what you said? >> Yeah. Uh and it's not just that. I mean, if you look at um the number of building permits are coming in are are almost steady, but the the amounts are a lot
lower. So it's people aren't unfortunately building new homes, um things like that. So our revenues for next year are going to be they're they're going to be uh most are going to be downward. >> So when you look at the when we have our
meeting after the um after the first I know it's a joint with the fincome film um it's not going to be >> it's it's not going to be a good picture. >> Yeah. So when we just to clarify when we prepared the budget though back in the spring we were looking at some positive
hope and numbers whatever for for new growth but what we're seeing now 10 months later is that that has not played out the way we had anticipated right and that's that's essentially what we're saying >> yeah honestly I thought it was going to be another year
>> before we started seeing things actually start reductions um >> so uh this year when we when we start working on the budget and the revenues, a lot of it's probably going to be not only a bigger cushion um for for a non-override budget. Um but our if you
look at what our new growth is going to be is going to be down um you know even cannabis I wouldn't even raise more than what it actually is. So a lot of our revenues are going to be stagnant or lower than >> Yeah. Okay. And if we if we if we
underestimate the revenues and then they exceed that, that just builds our free cash, which is at the end of the game versus in the front here. >> The um the cumitive Sorry, Scott. The cumulative reduction is 195,000. >> Uh right about there, I believe. Right,
Bradley? >> Yes. 195. >> Okay. So, I'll I'll make a motion to approve article one to be presented before the population of special town meeting to be scheduled on January 10th um at a time to be determined to see if
the town will vote to amend the fiscal year 26 operating budget as voted at the May 6, 2025 annual town meeting under article one by reducing the appropriations for the following departments as shown below totaling $195,000. Okay, very good. Thanks, John. I have a
second, please. >> Second that. >> All right, second by Ellen. Okay. Uh, if no further discussion, all those in favor and let's do a roll call vote, please. Um, starting with John >> Lumber I. >> Steven. >> Here we go. Here we go. Here. John.
>> Okay. Ellen >> Debru I. >> Okay. Fowl's eye. Okay. Motion passes. Thank you. Uh just in terms of the timing, uh we usually do a 10 o'clock meeting. Is that what we would try to do? >> Yep. >> Okay.
>> Monday, I'm sorry. >> 10 o'clock on the 10th. Okay. >> Um >> All right. >> For for the signatures on the warrant, I can either um go anywhere that you need me to, or if you want to do uh print it out, sign it, and I can scan it in individually. Or if you want to
authorize me to use a signature in the past, I could probably do it that way for Lucy. When will the documents be ready? >> Uh I mean it's ready right now. >> It's just a just a one pager. >> Um >> are you guys on a half day tomorrow?
>> Uh yes. >> I can I can stop a town hall. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I will. >> Ellen Ellen, what's your schedule tomorrow? >> Uh I think that I'm out at three. >> Okay. Um, >> I think Lucy, uh, Lucy's there, I
believe. Uh, Lucy, I believe you said it didn't have to be posted until Friday. Is that right? >> Okay, she's muted. >> Actually, Saturday, but I'm I want to just get it to Jared um just to get out just in case. >> We need to get it to constable on Friday at the latest. So,
>> let's let's assume that those of us can that can get to town hall in the morning, we'll we'll get there and sign it. >> Okay, that at least three of us. And then Ellen will leave it visible somewhere for you to find it at 3:00 if you want. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Or or I could actually You've got to come by and pick up something at my house. I'll just bring it back to my
house. How's that? >> There you go. That works. >> There we go. We'll get it signed. >> Let's do hard signatures and then um I'll get it back to town hall for you, Scott. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And the conible is ready whenever Scott's ready to post it.
>> So, he's willing to come in and get it. So, >> perfect. All right. Well, let's let's assume we'll get it all signed tomorrow. Uh let's let's take a break on Christmas day. Um and then we'll have it back at town hall on on Friday morning. How's that? >> Okay. >> All right. Good.
>> Works. >> All right. If nothing else, anybody have anything? >> I do. >> I do. >> Stephen, quick. Yeah. Sorry, Lucy. Sorry. Wait a minute. Go ahead, Stephen. We don't have to solve it tonight, but I really want to commit to it tonight that
we have to do an incredible communications job on this because this is going to twist people's minds. >> Okay, thanks. >> Yeah, Lucy. >> Um, I just wanted to say before the
meeting's over, a prehappy birthday to you, Chris, tomorrow. >> Hey, >> happy birthday. Happy birthday. >> Happy birthday. >> Thanks. Well, and to everybody, uh, merry Christmas, >> or a divine gift, you know.
>> Thanks. No, truly, uh, to everybody listening in or who will see this, uh, hope everybody has a safe and happy and healthy Christmas time, happy Hanukkah, and best wishes for 2026. I think, uh, I know I'm ready to put 2025 in the rearview mirror, personally.
>> Same. Same. So good. >> Hey, and thank you, Chris, for all of your leadership and including lunch on Monday. It was >> I I had no idea we had so many firefighters >> when the word got out. Exactly. No,
that's great. All right. Uh I will take a motion to adjurnn if we're all set. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. All those in favor? Roll call. >> I >> All right. Files eye. All right. We are adjourned at 6:35.
>> Thanks everyone. >> Merry Christmas. Happy holidays all. >> All right. Take care. Bye. >> Bye.