Welcome everyone. Meeting will come to order. Welcome to the South Community Preservation Committee meeting. It's November 19th, 2025, 7 p.m. We are at the uh land use meeting room, South Town Hall. We are in hybrid and in person. Uh
and again, welcome with us tonight. We have Rick Rick, that is Clark, >> Chris Pratt, Dave Spina, Brian Walker, and Russ Fox. Russ Fox. Okay, Russ is on Zoom. We'll start off with public comment.
Does anyone have any public comment tonight? Seeing no one online and is there any audience? >> We got Cliff signing in. >> Okay. >> He's probably just going to ask
>> where is it? >> Disappeared. He disappeared. Okay, we'll go on to our applicant. Yes. >> An application for 64 Tannery Road conservation restriction purchase and site improvements.
And you want to come on big chair. Big comfy chair. >> You can both have a big chair. >> They are little comfy chairs though. >> Some are more comfy. All righty. So, you tell us about uh
your application. >> Uh well, I I don't have all that much to add from when we were here before. Uh the application is has been filed. Um I got the official appraisal was done. I went and walked the property with the
appraiser. You spent a good hour doing that. Took a lot of pictures. I think you'll see it see it in the application. I got a lot of good information from him. Um, and so that's so that was all incorporated into there to kind of uh
that was kind of the last piece missing from the from the puzzle of uh all the information. So um I can't add much more to that. I can definitely answer any questions you you might have.
Did you find a land trust that you know they work with? >> No, I talked I talked to the department of agriculture and you gave he gave me a name. Uh I was not not able to talk to that person but he referred me to
someone that works for him Jay Vosa in in this area. And I also talked to Russ for for quite a while. I was generous with some time and u and talk about the the APR, but that doesn't seem like it can can go anywhere. >> Why is that though?
>> It's because they they need what they call legal and no not something with a penis. >> Oh, legal and practical access before they can they can ft of frontage doesn't really count. >> I'm sorry.
>> Your 200 feet of frontage on Tanner Road doesn't count as access. it it not in his opinion. No, >> that doesn't make any sense. >> That's >> I mean it wouldn't wouldn't do good for anything. It doesn't have access to it. I mean, you can't have the park and you
can't have anything. So, if it's got 200 feet of frontage, that's access, >> right? It's Well, it's 300 something feet of front. >> 300 ft of frontage. >> I think he meant I think he meant access to the the agricultural section. >> How are they getting access to it? No,
>> there's a there's an easement on number 72 uh Tenry Road that's been used for a long long time for uh to get the equipment back there by uh Rockwood Farms. He's a the friend of the owner of
72 Tanner, which is uh John Lambella. So they they they've used that access. There's that access ends at a bridge. It's on our property. So to get from the
bridge to the street, you need to use that easement. I I I had a deal with the Lombella family to buy that easement, but they backed out of the deal at the last minute. So, and they're kind of uh unresponsive to uh
>> Did you have that on the back, please? But there you go. >> You want me to bring up the map? >> Is that just I don't understand how you just can't go through the front of a balcony. >> So, was there a a separating the front
from the back? Correct. >> Yes. >> And is that part of the uh improvement that you're planning to make anyway is creating a way to get to the back field? >> Yes. >> So, I'm not understanding why they wouldn't allow that to be your access. I I I don't know.
>> Do they know about it or >> they >> that your intent is to provide access back there? >> Well, my intent is to to say that access can be can be gone can be made from the
frontage back through the to the agricultural fields by crossing over the wetland area. But that's that's not something that we're we're kind of we're prepared to do. >> Have the wetlands been delineated out there?
>> Cuz from what I could see, there's access around the wetland. >> Pretty sure >> went out there years ago when they were trying to >> Yeah, there's there's an existing crossing. If you have the street here, you go
500 feet and there's an existing crossing of what's called I think Kellogg's Brook right there. That that crossing exists farther in about halfway between that point and the fields. There's a
occasional brook or there's like a a runoff of when it rains a lot. There's a place that that water goes intermittent. Is that There we go. Main Street. >> So, I've got the street. >> I've got the map up here. This right
here, I believe, is Kellogg Brook. >> And honestly, I don't know. >> Yeah, very >> I don't think this this is like an unnamed golf course, right? That's just a goes by Smitty's connector, but I don't know what to >> Kellogg goes up here.
>> Well, this this rope is constant. And then there's a faucet across here, existing faucet. There's an intermittent string that goes kind of kind of like this. Okay. >> And that that
>> right there >> construction work get a cost with APR. So with agricultural consumption is they actually look forward to change sometimes and was a lot more lenient. I think you'd be path
resistance. It would be a lot easier than a particle of this production than >> this. I mean, this would have to go through conservation before >> well have there's a whole slew of factors that have to be done before this evening. Whereas an APR they could just they
could do the appraisal, they would do the ad value and you know they they paid for that too on that and we could use it as far. >> I know that the South Land Trust is
meeting tomorrow um to talk about this I guess one last time. Um, so I mean it's a possibility that they could be the land trust. >> Yeah, I mean I
>> that was basically it. It wasn't that so much they they still interested. It was just that they don't have the funding and and I guess they didn't see an immediate way forward to gather those funds whether by grants or donations. I mean, I think it'd be a good idea just
to table it for now until we explore the APR a little bit more and talk to land trust. >> Yeah, especially if you can get that crossing there to work for the APR >> since you're planning on doing one anyway at some point.
>> When you talked to that um MDAR, did you did you say that there was no access? Did they see it on the map? I'm just wondering if they didn't know there is frontage >> right
>> from the road and I'm wondering if maybe the way that you worded it it sounded like >> it could have been because I I knew nothing about an APR when I talked to him on the phone. >> So the first thing they do is they evaluate the soils. They'll take the >> So they have to know where the plot of
land is. >> Then they do a soil evaluation. I don't think he looked at at at the property >> but that tells you whether it's >> Peterson was giving me a primer on on what an APR is and when it got to that and I said gee that might be an issue
because there is no existing easy way to get >> so he took it the way I took it I thought there was no access to it and when I talked to Dave McWills like there's plenty of access to the 200 feet of front so right >> I was confused >> Russ and I would both be happy to help
you know, try to negotiate or get through this process. If it doesn't work out, then you'll, you know, go back to the drawing board to do this. >> Well, now that I know more, I can have a more intelligent conversation with the >> with the uh APR pack. But at at that
time, it seemed like, oh, we can't get equipment back there. So, so, you know, we we wouldn't be interested in in in proceeding anymore. So, that was that was how how it was. And to me, not knowing that much about it, I said, "Well, okay, that stuff."
>> Like Dennis says, "Farnland does have more exemptions to it, right >> for wetland crossings, things like that. Be a lot easier." >> I remember hearing that in the past, but I I didn't know. >> Russ, do you think Ron Hall would be uh I hate to go over anybody's head, but you think Ron Hall might be best person
to be a good person to direct us. Uh he's he's been quite an asset in town before. >> I Well, I I tried to get in touch with him. >> Yeah, he's not easy to get in touch with Russ to him. So
>> Russ, I don't know if we talked about this, but it almost sounded like Ron thought there was a conflict of interest for some reason and that's why he had his the guy that worked for him uh contact me instead. I I I
didn't dig into what that was, but there was some reason that that this guy called called me instead of instead of Ron himself. So, >> I I think Ron would probably normally have someone else reach out. >> Okay.
>> I could try to reach out to Ron and and ask him to kind of clarify what exactly what we're trying to achieve and see if we couldn't speed up the process. >> Yeah. If if he says that, yeah, work with this guy and he, you
know, he knows what what to do, then, you know, that's fine. It just sounded like there was something kind of cloudy in and and why Ron didn't call me directly because he obviously got my email and my and my voice voicemail and then
>> Ron has people to do things for him. I think that's why I'm saying going over somebody's head, >> but it's not really because he we he's from Southwick and Russ knows him. So, we'll just be asking for advice, you know. >> Yeah, that that would that would be a big help, Russ, if you just wanted to
check with him and see if if if >> if that's the right way to go. We don't think all the information was really out there at the time that he didn't get a chance to really look at the property and see what was going on. So, it used to be Barbara Hopson, but
she she must have retired maybe >> in a while. Yeah. >> The gentleman's name we dealt with at the >> J Rosa. I think he's in >> Southboro or South something south ridge or he's not he's not local here kind of
covers this area. >> Yeah. >> I think he might have sent me his name right. >> Uh I might I might have when you asked them question I might have said yeah I talked to this is who I talked to.
>> Yeah. But but you didn't say that what it doesn't sound like you've ever heard heard of him. So >> So I think what we're looking to do is we'll table it for now. We'll keep the application >> open um try to look at those other avenues that might be better for
everybody. >> Okay. >> Um to see if something can be worked out. >> I think everybody agrees that we'd like to preserve that property one way or the other. >> Absolutely. >> And it's a beautiful piece of property. If you haven't had the chance to walk it, you really should. I mean, we'd be
happy to walk it with you, but it >> especially on a sunny day, no matter how cold it is, it is >> like the sound of music that >> you see that old I guess the Margaret tree is the name. It's it's it's a beautiful piece of property. It really
is. And you know, to think of how many homes might be there is just a little disheartening. >> What might be here before? Was it tennis courts or was >> that was to the right I think down the road up toward more towards South and I remember I played there when I was youn
the path from the rail trail is is mostly there. It's you're actually walking around walking along like a little drainage path there. But to get from the rail trail to there is I don't know maybe 100 feet of >> I mean they call that Westwick tennis
courts because it was in the west line. >> Yeah. But I know that all the property towards the road was all filled in because they were doing the perk tests out there. >> As soon as they went down to the lower level all great soils all wetland soil underneath. >> Oops.
>> There are some areas that might be possible. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I tried to find the the path of least resistance to get from the street back there and after a couple attempts it, you know, it's it's it's not that bad to get that. >> I was able to do it, so it's not that
bad to be honest with you with the dog. >> A lot of tires and trash that was out. >> Oh, I didn't see any trash. There is an old pickup truck >> shell back there somewhere, but I I only saw it once, so I don't know where exactly where it is. >> There was dozens of tires and trash out there at one time.
>> Oh, no. No, we didn't see anything at all. Good. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah, that's a good thing. >> No oil drums or >> excellent. >> All right, I'll uh maybe I'll I'll get in touch with you, Russ, and we can
figure out how to contact Ron and get put back on that path, maybe. >> Abs. Absolutely. >> Thank you very much. Thank you very much. >> Have a nice holiday. Nice. >> Thanks for coming in.
>> Yeah, maybe we could vote. Make sure we're going to table this for now. >> I'll make a motion to table this for now while other avenues are being investigated. >> I'll second that. >> All right, Rick. Second and we'll vote around the table. >> Rick and I Chris Pratt. I ti
all right and good luck. a meeting next month. >> Not planned on it yet. >> That's a good question. Yeah. >> Yeah, I haven't. >> We do basically have >> Well, then I'll be probably have a
meeting anyway. >> No, yeah, we do have another issue passing. So, we might have to meet anyway. So, >> it would be on the 17th if we do meet. It's the third Wednesday of >> I'll use that as a target. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. All right. Thank you so much.
>> Hi. >> Good night. >> Good night. >> Okay. Any old business? Master plan lead support priorities for master plan committee. You tabled it three times. >> Thanks. >> Um, no.
And I printed that out. >> And who do we have here? Um, Rick. Did I win? >> Yes, >> Brian. >> All right, Brian. >> So, you guys still need to do uh just
mark these 1 through 10. There's there's something on the back. 1 through 10 where one being your highest priority. 10 is your lowest. Do not repeat any numbers. And we would still need John, Wall-E,
Joanne, right? and Briana. >> Okay. >> So, we only have Chris, Russ, Spina. >> Oh, wait. You You do have it, Brian. I'm sorry. I read that wrong. It was Dennis.
Dennis needs to do it. >> Sorry, >> Ryan. The first and Dave were like the first two. >> You read Brian and Duncan. >> Um, so, >> okay. So, we'll wait for those to come in.
>> With that, >> we'll put that off to the 17th as well again and discuss it at that point when we have all the answers. >> Yeah. And hopefully the other members will show up and I can just hand it to them and be like, "Just write it down. >> Do it right now." Yeah. >> Do it. >> Okay. >> It's been
once again. We'll put that up. Holiday tree discussion. >> Do you guys Okay. So, the um holiday tree Christmas fair is not going to be at the town hall this year. It's going to be at the meeting house 222 college highway. Um
are you guys still interested in doing it despite the fact that it's going to be all the way over there now? >> Sure. >> Oh, call silence. >> I'm not interested in doing it over there. The only reason I was to do it because it was a town hall. I think
because we're affiliated with a town hall thing, I think that's why we participated in the past. >> I don't think it's a good u place to have it. I think the town hall would have been the best place. I don't know why it's not being done here, but maybe
we could do our own. >> I know. Yeah. Cultural council. Uh we got approved to put a dark Christmas tree in town hall. >> Yeah. Inside or outside? >> Yeah. Inside. It's an inside. Yeah. >> So, we're gonna we're gonna do that. live tree or >> No, no, no. It's a artificial artificial
tree. >> Wanted to have It's in the basement right now. I got >> you stick a little conservation tree on the front. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Charlie Brown, that might be not a bad idea. Yeah. Okay.
Well, you want to make a plan to do that? CPC tree. Conservation tree. Probably conservation. Um CPC tree. I guess we could also we need I think you need to uh ask for permission to do it on time.
>> Why don't you ask for permission? >> Okay. >> And we'll go from there. >> Yeah. >> We'll put up December 24th. >> I know. It's better to be cutting it close because we'd have one more meeting. >> So, do you want you want to vote to do it?
Did we get permission to say let's front of that? I'll second that. >> Okay. Sure. >> All in favor? >> I resp. >> Okay. So, if we get permissions, we'll do it here. >> Yeah. >> Russ, did you say I? I can't. >> Russ.
>> All right. >> Um, I guess I'll send out an email to you guys about it. >> Okay. >> As like a not it's like not really necessarily a
>> meeting. Not a meeting. Yeah, we're not review somebody. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Review a mail. Any mail that we review? >> No. >> Good. Minutes approval. Look at the minutes of October 15th. Just the email from
Stuart. >> Oh, well, yeah, we have the we have the email. Um I guess we could you talk about that during get the review mail section. Yeah, that works. >> We definitely just ran that. Okay. Um, so >> guess what we're doing?
>> No, but I think this is good to this is good to talk about. Um, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. So, the the library is on the same parcel as the high school. It's one big parcel.
>> And when I talked to Stuart and I I I gave you guys both his responses to >> You want me to read it out loud? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Make sure everybody's clear on what the problem is. >> So that's the second. This is the >> first one. Desire to bring mistakes feel
that the original project should not have been approved without finding a way to permanently protect the land as recreational. After all, this land is a building lot for the library, not a real park. If it's ever needed for library expansion, parking, or other municipal
use, the park would be lost. But reality is that it was the honest mistake. And on that issue, it's quite complicated. It would really be problematic to try to claw back that first appropriation. And I think we came to that realization when he was speaking last meeting. Uh
>> oh, I think we have a >> restriction on that parcel. Um, >> you could consider expand explaining the situation to the applicant and working with them in a way to protect the land as part of the second appropriation. This spring permanent protection could be achieved by transferring career
control of the park area to the parcel of whatever board committee controls recreation land and town hall. That will be included in the appropriation at your upcoming town meeting. You'd add wording to the article after that appropriation something similar to and transfer care
custody and control of that subject area shown on the map file of the town clerk to ex board or whoever is going to run that park. Alternatively, you may be also able to keep control of the land with the library, but vote to dedicate the subject portion of the property as shown
in the map file with the town clerk to recreational use under article 97 of the state constitution. It would be appropriate to request a change to ensure the CPA recreational money is spent on a permanent recreational asset. You'd have to work with town council on
the wording. One caveat, the CPC lost a lot of leverage by not requiring this before on the first appropriation. So you may get some push back from town officials on this. Folks never want to restrict something they already own, but that's the whole point of CPA. It's a restricted fund and it needs to be sent
to the land restricted to uh and land restricted to one of our CPA purposes. The CPC should also vote not to allocate the second pot of money to the project unless permanent dedication occurs. Best
Stuart. >> Okay. >> We gave some off there. >> Yeah, I think we actually had discussed that was trying to get that >> put into some kind of restriction that rectify the m the original mistake that we made, right? That would make it
allowable if it is transferred to recreational use. or as a park >> to preserve it as a park which we could do it at the town meeting as well. We'd have to bring that forward as another. >> So if we do the first option where it
says you said >> transfer care custody control the park area to a board of committee would that be >> park >> park and wreck park and wreck here. I don't know this guy.
>> Could you uh >> I'd take Yeah. Next meeting. Let's probably should put it out there to library people to >> let something see what they would like to do. You know, their their opinion is >> Yeah. We need to sense the it's school
territory. Do we need to get them involved? >> Well, yeah. I mean, it would be a town >> committee kind of thing or something. >> Oh, there's Russ. >> Yeah. because it is part of the school >> legal questions here. It's going to beite quite a nightmare for town council >> because the town of Southic owns the
property. >> Yep. Right. >> To the school region, but the library is not part of that. Um, but it is still town property. So, I I think you got to let the legal beagles work on this one. But it's it's
>> right it's very complex. But is that parcel? Did you say it's not part of the regional school district land? >> I mean, it's exempt from the lease that we gave to the regional school district. >> Okay. So, it's just Southwick that we're
dealing with. >> It's I know it's all on the same parcel, but that building was built by volunteers and some town money was donated. Uh, but that is town property as far as I know. Uh, well, everything's town property. It's just leased,
>> right? >> So, um, but >> so it' be kind of just changing hands within the town. I mean, as far as usage, so I don't know. >> Yeah, it's it's it's a little complex because somebody could say, and I think
I pointed this out to Dennis that we did sell the old library, you know? >> Right. So if somebody ever mentions that I mean you know it >> right Dennis did speak to me about that as well and it's like you know
but it would have to be put in some kind of like a trust or perpetuity in order to use CPA funding on it. I think that would have to be part of the wording on the uh >> see what our options are for >> some sort of clawback too I would
imagine. No, he said there wouldn't be. >> Well, he didn't say there wouldn't be, so it' be extremely problematic. >> Yeah. >> But as far as the second pot of money, if they if they do want that, that would be a condition under which they'd have to con conform
>> um in order to receive that >> second thought. >> Yeah. >> Now, they're looking for around $22,000, Chris, >> I believe. So yeah, it wasn't a ton of money. It's just, you know, the
>> maybe we could also because it's probably going to cost us a lot in legal cost. >> Uh we might want to see if the town will just fund this thing and you know, >> yeah, >> you know, it it might be cheaper in the long run just to do >> Well, that might be an evidence to check
out. I mean, >> I agree. >> See what our options are for the next meeting. will put on the agenda and uh >> yeah try to come up with a >> solution as well. >> Okay. >> So I am not yet talking to the
department rights. >> Not really anything to put on the table yet. >> Well just you can talk >> you can just put it in say that's one of the things. >> Exactly. That's all you got to do. >> They're used to that for me. It's all right. No, he just dropped his bomb and
leave. >> Well, one more thing. >> Yeah. See, >> you finish. >> Okay. All right. And we'll go now to the minutes of October 15th. There's got to be something in here.
>> I didn't see anything. Looked at him earlier on the line. >> On the line. >> On the line. There she turns. I'll take a motion. Anybody has one? Make a motion. Approve the minutes. I'll
second it. All in favor? >> I can still vote. >> Yeah, you can. We made that. >> It looks great to me. All right. Dennis, I Chris. I be I Brian Walker. Russy. >> Excellent.
>> You don't have to approve anything for uh the uh November 6 meeting, right? That's that was just >> No. Yeah, these are minutes. It's >> short and sweet. >> Open close.
>> Yeah, >> we have to put a motion in those minutes. >> Yeah, we'll take a motion on November 6th minutes if anybody wants to do that. >> I had one comment. >> Okay. >> And it's a a minor thing. >> That's fine. Everybody who I think everybody who is a on a board or
committee, it describes what board or committee they're on. I think that may >> I fixed the ones >> because I already had printed it out. >> Good idea. >> I just don't want to waste paper. >> That's fine. >> I don't know why. Like >> we have a motion yet or >> um No,
>> I'll make a motion. >> Okay, I'll second the motion. All in favor? >> I Dave Sp. Russ >> Russ >> November 6th. Yeah. Okay. >> We got signatures
>> and the blue pen. Um, I like blue pen because I don't have to went and try to figure out if it's official like >> Right. >> All right. D's not here tonight, so somebody else is going to have to do it. >> Me motion to adjourn. I'll second that.
All in favor? >> Rickman I. Dennis I >> I walker I rest. >> All right. Good night everyone. Thank you for coming. I appreciate your attendance.