It's 7 o'clock and the meeting of Lake Management Committee will come to order and the meeting is being recorded. If there's anybody else on online that's recording, please >> clerk is >> Cliff Clark. >> Oh, Cliff is
>> Cliff Clark with the Westfield News would like to record the meeting. >> Cliff recording. >> Gotcha. Any other uh guests on there? >> No. >> No. Okay.
So, uh went through that. I've got to take attendance. >> And Norm Chver >> here. Mike Kums is >> here. >> You're on. Okay. Malcolm Debay >> here. >> Mike Debb here. Dick Gran's here. >> Scotty Graves, you on?
>> No. >> He was a maybe. >> Okay. So, no. Um, Eric Mueller >> here, >> Paul Murphy >> here, >> Paul Yokum >> here, Ken Phillips >> here, >> and Ellen is here. >> Okay,
we're ready to go read the minutes from the last meeting, which was February 12th. >> I have one correction for that. Yeah, >> I wasn't here. >> Uh, okay. >> You're here. >> Up here.
>> That's right. You would plan Okay. And anything else? I'll fix that. >> No. I'll take a motion to accept as written. >> So move. >> It's Norm. A second. >> Second.
>> Mike D. All in favor. >> Opposed. >> Abstain. Unanimous. I got affirmed. Norm Chver. >> Hi. >> Mike Kums. >> Hi. >> Malcolm Deb. >> Hi. Mike Debay. >> Hi. >> Dick Granles. I >> Scotty's not here. Eric Miller. >> Hi.
>> Paul Murphy. >> Hi. >> Paul. >> Hi. >> Okay. >> Affirmed. >> All right. Public comment. Anybody? We have any public comments? >> Nobody. >> Since we have no public here.
>> All right. Concom update. Norm. >> Yes. A short one. Tonight, uh, the last meeting we approved an RDA to remove a large oak tree, three white street in 70 ft of condom lake.
It's diseased and causing problems. Um, the other item is we talked about is we're going to be doing the fall planting in North Pond this year. >> It'll probably be in April. We'd like to
borrow the town boat. >> Mhm. >> We'll beach the boat, put a pump on the back, attach it to a generator so we can water it. >> Oh, that's cool. >> It's good water to use for that. >> Yeah, >> we haven't we haven't set a date yet,
but probably in April. >> Yeah. And it it usually is put in it usually gets in >> if the ice is out, >> right? >> It's going pretty quick. >> It is. I think this well this warm weather did a number on it. >> But we got winter coming back now.
>> Yeah, winter came back tonight. >> Uh, anything else or Oh, no. >> Sfield conservation. Nothing to report. Went to a meeting, but they didn't have any item on the agenda. >> Okay. You guys discussed the truck. >> Yep. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. Any comments from >> You didn't take any actions or anything. We just discussed it. >> Mhm. uh because we'll talk about the procedure on that when we get to that one. >> Uh Empic update. >> Empic update. We had our last meeting we
approved first nine master plan completions on their way to the select board and county board for approval and they included couple of them I'll read to you. Develop an engaging electronic newsletter has been
completed. Secure P funding for licensed plate rel lead read lead read lead read lead read lead read lead read lead read lead read lead read lead readers that's complete Identify methods to promote more southbook residents to become active and engaged in town committees complete
our housing production plan and significant housing and then establish a permanent open space committee up and running and complete you me a a few words to put in.
>> Yep. >> For the tube. >> And we're still working on another nine to be to be done by the 6:30. >> And we still have six organizations that haven't given us completion promise dates. They include your historical
commission, school committee, parks and recreation, board of health, cultural council, and CPC. >> Wow. >> Okay. And that is the >> That's it.
>> Okay. Uh CRC update and Michelle's not on. >> She had sent you an email last. >> Yes, I I'm going to cover that. Uh unless you want to cover it, but uh yeah, we did get an email. It's on page
eight and nine. Pages eight and nine. And I think uh it doesn't go forward to 10. So eight and nine that the buoy lights are moving along quite well. Uh this is from from Mark uh Colbert and he
coar and he's kind of pulling that all together. They've ordered the solar lights, the additional solar lights for all the buoys. Um he's making them so that they fit both the old buoys and the new buoys. We've switched everything as
we've been buying. We're going all to the roto molded uh sealite uh buoys. They last they are going to last a lot longer because they have no seams. >> And that's the problem with the old ones is that they're when you put them in um
they weigh let's say 100 lb 120 lbs or something like that. When you take them out in the in the fall they weigh a couple hundred pounds 250 pounds >> because they get saturated with water >> and and these do not have that uh that
problem. So because they use close cell closed cell foam also which is another good thing. So any rate that's moving along very nicely and thank you CRC. Uh the SPD boat house did you hear
anything more about that? >> No. I know they're going to talk about it once you have your first meeting. >> Yeah. They only had uh board of directors made it. >> Yeah. And then funding the uh the dams removal of the dams.
>> Yeah. I I didn't speak with um Michelle, but we communicated via email and they would like us to put together something to reflect the amount of funds that would be required. >> Okay. And she's pretty sure it'll go through just getting the numbers.
>> Yeah, I think we can wag that. >> Yeah. Actually, what the way to do it too is maybe uh since John Kane has been doing the work for um CRC, you want to contact and ask him, you know, like on a
per service basis because he's done it before. Now he can say, "Yeah, you know, it takes so many an average of so many hours and that equates to X dollars." >> Okay. >> You know, that way it keeps it clean from CRC. >> Yeah. Um, I need John Kane's contact,
too. >> I got that. >> I got it, too. If you want me to send it to you? >> Yeah, that'll be fine. >> Okay. Uh, >> can I text it to you? What's your phone number? >> Uh, the number.
>> I'm just going to text you his info. >> Write it down. >> I'll write it down right now. >> You might want to write it down. >> Write it on. >> Yeah, you're right. That's a good idea. >> Yeah. Everybody will be calling you. >> Yeah. Okay. Next on the list. Do you
have any update on the Beaver Dams? Any new info? >> No. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> I don't know if anybody else has anything on >> on the beaver dams. There's nothing major going on down there. >> Nothing new. >> John will go down. >> No, I mean on on getting getting rid of the the beaver. >> Oh, getting rid of them. >> That was still a problem. Couldn't find
anybody. >> Uh the hydrillaa project we're continuing. We've got the funding ongoing absolutely for this current this um 2026. Um and it's supposed to be extended into
2027 which is great. What's really good news is there's a new program that happens to be I just heard about it. It's going to be the first one was done by fish US fish and fisheries and wildlife. They funded it. It's now going
over to Army Corps and they're taking over the whole thing and they will be funding the continuing work. So, uh, we're hoping I've been kind of talking with DCR about it, our contact there. And so, they're looking to get similar
funding from Army Corps to take us on, you know, following years. >> That'll take 27 and beyond. >> Yeah, we we're funded up to 27. >> Okay, we are. So we're looking to get funded 28 29 and so on. >> Yeah. The last one was a three year. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So we can get another three year. >> So that's that's moved along well. The the um NRCS pair uh bar engineering project. We had that meeting and we have another one tomorrow. Uh but we had the
public hearing which was on the 29th and that went very well. A lot of good information shared. We sat before the meeting. We had an afternoon meeting and we really rolled up the sleeves and and got into a lot of nuts and bolts on um
what everybody is looking for as a as a product out of this. And I think we're all on the same page. And the other good thing is that their data that they have generated in other words the they do >> their model calculations >> their model calculations which are based
on boots on the ground assessment of Canalbrook and Greatbrook. uh those models are tracking very well with what we see you know what we've with all the data that we've measured over the over the decades and
observations because I'm so familiar with how many times like industrial road has been overtopped >> where you can't get to the transfer station you know because you got two feet of water running over the over the road um >> but you know and things like uh you know
he he showed us model results for what if you have uh 5 ines of rain in 24 hours, this is what should happen. And we look and go, "Yeah, we've got >> Yeah. Right. It's Yeah, that's about what happens." Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Flows
back, you know, and he's it's um so all the all the things that we've sort of said, you know, because people will ask us, well, you know, why can't you just do this? You know, well, you know, why can't you lower the lake when it rains by just dropping the gates? We go, "Yeah, well that would make the lake go up." >> Yeah. >> And well, what do you mean? And his
model shows Yeah. shows exactly what happens. The lake goes up. Do that. >> The other thing they did was they they looked at the old what if. Okay. If if uh Canal Brook is is clear, >> right? >> Are we going to flood everything downstream? And the answer to that is
no. And that's good news because they looked at the properties uh the elevations the elevations of the water that would be in the canal versus the elevations of the surrounding uh buildings and properties and whatnot.
And so we don't fix a problem here and create another one over there. One thing that was very clear and it'll be no surprise to anybody here who's looked before is that the uh the culvert at um at uh >> Phelps Road. >> Phelps Road. Yeah, I should know that.
>> Yeah, you live there. >> Too high and under. >> It's too high and too small. >> Yeah. >> So any restoration of Canal Brook would require redoing that. That's not a surprise to anybody here. We all knew that. But they So yeah, that's very clear. That's pinpoint that's got to be
cleared up. And they and Sfield is replacing that's why the road is closed. They're replacing the bridge that's further down on on Quarry Road and they it's well the size is no problem at all. It's
>> so they we got the drawings. They were provided to us. I gave them to uh NRCS uh PAR engineering and they analyzed it and they said no that's not that's not a choke point. So, so at least you know that that looks
like there's a a straightforward path to the restoration of Canalbrook. Um, Great Brook I think was a bigger challenge. Um, but but is definitely, you know, on the list and I think they are still looking at other structural things like,
you know, what if you put what if you create an outlet out of North Pond. Yeah. >> Not, you know, it would be an emergency outlet. It wouldn't be an outlet you would use regularly. And we, you know, we were able to explain to them and Ken was able to uh to China to back us up that, you know, you don't, we really
think it would not be a good idea to create an outlet out of North Pond that gets used regularly because you that's the best that's the best quality water in the system. South Pond has the worst quality water in the system. We really don't want to be flowing that way.
>> And the other thing is is that >> now in an emergency of not flooding, locally will do it. But the aquifer which is big source for our town drinking water uh is most active in North Pond and then you know the the uh
exchange of the water from the aquifer to the wells and or and to the lake. So you got this constant and that is north is the most active middle the northern part of middle and then it gets less and less and less till you get to south then
there's very little activity. So, you know, we certainly want to keep the cleanest water where it is now. >> And and I suspect that when they're done with the calculation, it'll be a non-issue because that'll cost so much that it won't. >> So, I so I have a feeling we want to be
ahead of it, but you know, unless unless a giant pile of money falls from the sky, I think I think that's unlikely. >> And and the good news there, too, is that the the split for construction is 65% they fund. >> Yep. and 35% the town has to raise uh
one way or the other whether it's from state funding uh or >> anything but federal >> anything but fally cannot use federal funds to fund a federal project. So um and there may be some inind capabilities there. We asked that that's still
unknown whether that could be credit um >> calculate into the >> yeah we we've had federal funded projects before where in kind is is part of it is the part of the participation.
Um so any rate and the next thing 159 uh >> draft is pages 27 to 29 and then I put I think in what I gave you I remember I believe I gave you an
update in the last couple pages the last of this I think has the latest one which was the response from John Gddard. So you might just want to jump to that. >> Yeah, I saw that. That came in today.
>> Yeah. So you have the latest information in this. >> Yeah. >> And basically we're still we're going to get together. That's what he said. He's he's trying to put together where Randy left off, you know, and and who was going to do what.
So he's kind of new to that. So, we'll meet and I'm hoping sooner than later. It'll be probably uh if you're available, it would be you, me, uh John Goddard and and probably Rich Bozac
um and whoever else we need there at at the time. So, we'll try and set up something sooner than later. Um the next thing we have
uh the algae boom protocol and so uh you have copies of that >> to the select you know presented to the select board uh they made some some very good suggestions which I updated the
procedure accordingly um so that is all good there are a couple of odds and ends uh that I don't have Um the first one and the one thank you Norm you know the question of who we should reach out to in Southfield you'll notice that in the
end I didn't put the person because then the procedure is dependent on the person right yeah so I just put the title um and then and then uh Doug is going to point somebody to help me with you know which which TV stations will be contact
and what's the contact information for them because the the idea here is basically to oh and I should mention Ken also went through this and gave me some suggestions which I incorporated. Um the idea here when the dust settles is this becomes an SOP a standard operating
procedure. So, you know, so the town basically, okay, this happened, take this, do this, >> right? >> Um, and so one of the things that Pen had suggested, which I hadn't thought of, is a very good idea. You'll see is the list of questions to ask somebody who's reporting the bloom. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, that's a really good
idea. Just just ask this set of questions. You may not get all the information, but get what you can, and that'll help as we're trying to do as we're trying to evaluate. So, it's not a it's not a big complicated thing. So once once this is really done done, which I'm hoping it's only a week away,
then what I want to do is get a meeting schedule with the with the folks who are on here as decision makers and just have a quick pow-wow, make sure everybody kind of agrees. Oh yeah, we understand what our roles are in here, what we're going to do. Um, one of the other things
that I did at at uh at the suggestion of the um of the select board is here, which is basically what I've done is I've created notification messages so that we don't draft a new one every time. >> Right. >> So, it'll just be like, oh, which one is
it? Oh, >> oh, that's notification message one. That's the one we use. >> Yeah. And so that meeting then that I talked about becomes very efficient because we just go through the information go oh this is the decision oh all right uh that's this one
>> and go do that. So that's the idea >> and I did get a chance to speak with our new health agent and she's absolutely on board with this >> um feel you know felt that the way it was handled in the past was not good
>> and you know we want to have a a clear defined path >> and you know so th this this seems like a good idea. We all think it's a good thing. We'll get it implemented the first time we run it. We'll see. There might be things we miss.
>> You know the, you know, the old thing of, you know, battle plans rarely survive contact with the enemy, right? >> So, >> if there's nothing else on that, >> no. >> The next thing is on page uh 30 is the
proposed ramp attendant uh pay rates, ramp attendant, and maintenance. And I spoke with uh Carara who has the park and wreck part of it and we've stayed, you know, so that our pay rates are the are the same,
>> right? >> And so they're staying the same. They're not going to go up. And so our recommendation is to to have the same rate as last year. It's still a buck and a half over minimum wage, which is $15,
which is noted in here. Yeah. >> So, the minimum wage is 15. We're paying $1,650. >> Um, what we need to do is if does anybody have any comments on on that? >> If not, I'll entertain a motion to make
this recommendation to the select board. Just the ones that have to approve it. >> I'll make the motion. >> Second, Eric. >> I'll second. >> Second as Paul M. All in favor? >> I opposed. >> Abstain. Unanimous. All right. Okay, I
got to go through my and we have Norm Chver. >> Hi, >> Mike Kums. >> Hi, >> Malcolm Deb. >> Hi, >> Mike Debay. >> Hi, >> Dick Ranels. Hi, >> Eric Mueller. >> Hi, >> Paul Murphy. >> Hi, >> Paul Yokum. >> Hi. >> Okay, affirm.
>> Okay. Open space is the next one. It goes from page 31 to 37. And really, it starts on page 33. And I put some brackets on there. I just put bars on it. And
so this is old. This is not Yeah. This is not new, >> right? This was 2019, >> right? So what we want to do is look at these and then what do we want to modify based
on where we are today. This for instance, we've done the alum treatment. That's history. >> Yeah. Um but >> take credit for having accomplished. Right. Right. Right. and and uh you know we the um as far as
dredging and and whatnot we are working on a our a plan with NRCS. So what I can do is if everybody agrees, I can respond because we have a our our dredging for
the South Cove. We hopefully going to get that 500 gate year mark >> that they're trying to get us, which will accomplish that. So that'll get the goo out of the cove by South Ram. Um we are working with NRCS for clearing
Canalbrook and Greatbrook. So that's major, you know, and that is fally funded. So we don't have to use uh town funds for the for the whole analysis part of it. That will get us to a point of where you we have to get the
the permitting will be on us. >> We have to fund the permitting. But um I I hope we get the option to keep the same people that are working on it now because they're doing a phenomenal job. I mean they're so
they're so tied into it. You don't want to start over, you know, you don't want them. >> So So that would be another one. Then another one, a third one would be, you know, this activity that we have going um around the watershed plan and you
know and I think >> depending on whatever else they come up with, I think one of our things there would be can we find a mechanism to get the funding to happen to be able to dredge copes? >> Yes.
And and one of the things we've talked about before, we're hoping that the state will kind of like the idea because there is one already um over in >> right >> eastern part of the state where they actually purchased a dredge. >> Yeah. And what what we've been pushing
for is for a dredge to be one or two whatever you know that's up to the state but uh get them to like mass dot uh district two where they can maintain them they can store them they can staff them um you know they they do that now
you don't have to hire anybody to uh maintain equipment they maintain all their own equipment anyway >> um one thing I think This relates more to master plan the the NRCS activity. Uh assuming we can make that happen, that
will give us then an avenue to be able to modulate lake level and that that could then play into the erosion >> sections that are in the master plan. >> Absolutely. >> Yep. >> Yep. So, if if you're comfortable with it,
this is this is a an old plant, so I can res I can reply um it updated. >> Yeah, >> sounds good. Updated. >> Put a blurb in about our water testing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, too, right. >> Yeah, that's you bring the
>> I Well, I brought it brought it out to bring it. I figured I'd test the batteries. They're dead and I don't have any new ones in house. All right. >> What do you need? >> Uh, it's double A's, but >> Oh, I got a buttload of those. You want? >> You don't have to buy any.
>> You got them. I'll take them. >> I'll give them to you. All right. So, you need double A's. Yeah. All right. I will take care of that. >> Two instruments take double A's. >> So, you have how many total? >> Probably. >> I have two machines. Uh, >> I think one's four and I think the
other's eight. So, a dozen dozen AA batteries. Yeah, I'll donate them here. Okay. Yeah, I have a stockpile with double because I I have this I have this list of stuff on my computer that I need to do and that one's up there.
>> Yeah, >> it's still there. >> All right. >> Yeah, I have I >> Do you want to know get them to you? >> Yes, >> I'll put them in the cauldron. >> Fine. I I use Apple's nag feature. It has a nag feature where they and I use that feature for the things like that so
I don't forget them. >> All right. Um I think that what they call that's what I found. >> The rest of the rest rest of those are not ours. You get down to um objective one-3. We don't have anything to do with that.
That's DPW and water department to the sunk truck. >> Yeah. So the sunk truck So the sunk truck went through the ice D back on on uh January 22nd
at night, you know, when about 9:00 or something like that at night, I think 7:30. >> Oh, 7:30. It was dark anyway. It >> was dark. Yeah, very dark. and and uh so we you know we know that it's it that it's somewhere midpoint between
the fishing pier and the opposite shore kind of in the area of the elbow that's in the fishing pier because you can see the the light that's the uh ballard light that's on the pier and I and lined that up with where the headlights were
when they disappeared and then there's a light on on the other shore. >> Oh, >> directly opposite it. And so, you know, I estimated I'm probably within 20 ft, you know, almost like a 20 foot radius of where it would be and gave that to
PD. >> So, it's a place to start, you know. >> So, I I see you were able to look up there actual instructions for what to do if somebody sinks a >> Yeah. >> sinks a vehicle into a Massachusetts great pond, which we have. And that's one of the things that we wanted to talk
about as we as we go on here is that the process and I think this is something we need to do something similar to what's here. >> Yeah. >> Uh notification for you know what happens if a a vehicle or a snowmobile
or you know something like that sinks or a boat. >> Right. Well we Right. And this this does happen at least every once every two years. >> Yeah. So, um I don't know if anybody wants to take a bite out of that apple and try and
>> I'm I don't want to become the the the town's process writer. >> Does some somebody want to >> You kind of had it. >> You got it. That's what I was going to say. Why don't you just use this? >> Well, make it into
>> right there. It's on page um 39. >> Make it into >> Yeah, you got it. >> Look on page 40. >> Yeah, that's the one for great fun. >> Yeah. for the great pond. Okay. Yeah, that's us. >> Yeah, that's >> and so we just summarize that. >> All you got to do. It's only like fourth step >> and maybe you put in you know like who
not name again not name but but the >> Yeah. So that I think that's really the thing is is turn it in turn it into that where there's whose and then the select board needs to look at it and bless >> and bless it. Right. So, somebody willing to try and assemble that
because right now I'm still straight out with the RFP, which we'll get into later. >> My wife's going to tell me, "You shouldn't have done this. You shouldn't have said." Okay. >> I'll do a first time. >> You'll do it. All right. >> Uh, do you want this electronically to start from? This is in the full chat.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll give you the whole thing. It's in PowerPoint. PowerPoint. Yeah. >> So then it's easier for you. >> Now it's much easier. >> Thank you. I will I will send you that. You'll have it and then you can use that as a blueprint. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Super. All right. Um let's see if we have anything on that. I don't think there's any vote stuff. No. Um >> then my suggestion is just take a stab at certain who you think the people are
and then get feedback. Just circulate it. know where you may pick something and the select board may go, "No, no, no. That's the wrong person." Okay, fine. >> Yeah. Then page 40 is the one to to start with. >> The other ones you can read because you get some other ideas. Um so then that
takes us to our bylaws which currently 7512. >> What page are you on? >> I'm on page 43 right now, but I'm going to jump right to >> operation. Abandonment of vehicles on ice. Yeah. >> Prohibited, >> right? So, I'm going to jump right to
page 46. >> Prohibited stuff for plowing. Right. >> Yeah. And that's >> which is really crazy. >> And and uh with the with the way our uh ice thickness has been getting thinner
and thinner year by year. Um it to say it's okay to plow, but it's not okay to go out with a vehicle. That doesn't make sense. with a really heavy vehicle, but you can't go out with a regular vehicle. >> So anyway, I think if it were up to me,
I think we should recommend that uh change to the bylaw to strike except for purpose of plowing. >> I think that's >> that was okay. When we had 30 inches of ice, >> I I have a a question to add. Um I see
their laws regarding uh you know if you lose a vehicle in there um you know one of the things people do is in order to provide for ice skating they take um snowblowers out and I don't
know if we'd had if we've had one breakthrough but we certainly could >> and I'm wondering if you know the whole reason behind vehicles is the you know all the contaminations is the contamination And that's certainly as big a problem with a a snowblower. I
would think it would be much less a possibility of it going through because most snowblowers are what 100 and a half 175 >> large person. >> That's a Yeah, that's true. Yeah. >> Yeah. The person's going to go through first. >> Yeah. Well, they're they're heavier than that. But yeah, I agree. Uh, of course,
you know, now you've got 150 lb person and a 200lb snowblower in one place. Um, I'm just, you know, you're mentioning this thing about the ice getting thinner and I'm just picturing >> Yeah. >> You know, I don't think you would qualify them as a be.
>> Well, you can't. You would have to say, >> you know, and people are doing it for skating rings across from us. They make a nice little skating ring for their kids. So, >> Well, no, no. I'm not trying to say we should prohibit it. >> What I'm trying to say is if it goes through the ice, you're going to get it. >> You own it. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And you have to pay for getting it out and you have to pay for the environmental impact of dropping your snowb blower in the lake. >> Well, we could say in this one, no person shall operate or abandon a motor vehicle or any In other words, you're >> motorized vehicle. Any motorized vehicle, something like that.
>> Machinery. >> Machinery. Yeah, machinery is probably better. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, I Yeah, I'm not I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to do it. You should be allowed to do it, but >> but if it goes through in in the lake, >> it's the same for a snowmobile. They use
them out there. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's the same Well, snowmobiles. >> Well, snowmobiles are already covered in there. He got fined. Yeah. >> Yeah. Snowmobiles are covered because it there's a requirement for six inches of ice minimum, >> you know? >> Right. But of course, like
>> and and I put an article in here that I thought was pretty good because on on Cape Cod they uh there's there was an article in the Cape Cod paper about no ice is safe ice and that's what we always say. We never tell somebody it's safe,
>> right? Um, so that that prompts we do we want to do a recommendation goes to the select board first of striking except for the purpose of plowing.
>> Yeah. I I I think it I don't know. How does everybody else feel? Let's see. >> No. I had a lot of fun as a kid when we used to plow. Town trucks used to go out and do it. >> Oh yeah. >> We we had cars out there all the time, right? But we don't get that kind of >> but if you're not going to allow a car out there, you know, you're going to
allow a a plow, >> right? So the So it's already it's already against the Town Valley laws to operate a motor vehicle on the ice. It just has this thing except for the purpose of plowing. >> Yeah. So you got to take that out. It's just that it's ridiculous.
>> Right. Right. I mean, >> I said you you can drive you can't drive a vehicle out there unless it's really heavy. They used to blow out in order to be able to get at the ice to retrieve the ice for the ice houses. >> No. No. That well that was going back
when ice was 3 ft thick. But no, they they used people used to drive even when I came up here. >> Um there was many a person who would take a plow >> and go in at the north ramp and go down to Saunders. >> Yeah. >> I did it all winter long.
>> We used to drive around the plow truck. Oh, there's a lot of there's a lot of vehicle down below. It was like 50 years >> a lot more ice than >> motorcycles, you name it. >> We took motorcycles out there all the time. >> We saw the first, right?
>> But I think you just strike that out. >> They have cars going through all the time even. >> So, all right. So, we have >> You strike that out. You strike it off. >> Yeah. So, I need a motion. >> I'll make a motion. >> Okay. I'll second >> and second Eric. All in favor?
>> Opposed? >> Abstain. Unanimous. And that will be >> Norm Chver. >> Hi. >> Mike Kums. >> Hi. >> Malcolm Debay. Hi >> Mike Deb. Hi >> Dick Ran. I Eric Mueller >> Paul Murphy. >> Hi >> Paul. Yum. >> Hi.
>> All right. Affirmed. All right. Next is where we get into the penalties. Um, and one of the things that was mentioned was that they they are responsible the the
person who sinks a vehicle or whatever in the lake is responsible to get it out, >> right? >> And so the problem is it doesn't say here um that they're responsible for all costs. you know, then you get into this.
>> Well, if you're responsible for removing it, then you're responsible for the cost of removing, >> right? Right. But it doesn't it doesn't say that. >> Why can't you put what you're saying here with just parentheses after the $50 for each offense and just put it on there and send it to the selectman to
see if they'll >> What what Well, basically what you're saying, you should just say and all and all um penalties, all other penalties, something like that. and expenses. All expenses. >> Yeah. >> Penalties and and expenses
>> and environmental costs, whichever they are, because there could be a lot. >> Expenses >> and just put it in parenthesis afterwards and just >> leaks. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. They have a leak. Oh my god. >> Well, when they start pulling that truck out, it's going to leak. >> Probably.
>> Well, it's probably leaking now. >> Oh, I'm sure it is. Yeah. >> All right. So if we add that to uh for each offense Yeah. >> and blah blah blah blah blah and all other penalties, expenses, and
environmental costs. >> That's it right there. >> Okay. Do we have a motion for that? >> Move, Norm. A second. >> I'll do Malcolm. All in favor?
Oppose. Abstain. Unanimous. Down the list. Norm Chver. >> Hi. >> Mike Kums. >> Hi. >> Malcolm Debet. >> Hi. >> Mike Deay. >> Hi. >> Dick Ran. Hi. >> Eric Mueller. >> Hi. >> Paul Murphy. >> Hi. >> Paul Yokum. >> Hi. >> All right. Affirmed. Done. Okay. Moving
right along. and the this the uh snow deal that occurred on two of them. One was on the February 7th and one was on February 21st. We spent endless hours uh literally uh
you know in conversations and you know um Zoom meetings, team meetings and whatnot with environmental police um our police, our CEO, myself
um I don't know trying to think who else was on that and we had numerous conversations about this. Oh, and the the Office of Fishing and Boating Access. Well, this there's two problems. The and Mass Environmental Police and
you have a copy of their of their uh permit which is on starts on page 51A, B and C. Uh all they deal with in the winter time is vessels. That's the word that is unfortunate. And
I have tal I have talked at length with the uh cap two different captains and and u they were on our our uh teams meetings
and so they do nothing about a winter event like a summer if there's a parade or a race or anything like that you have to get a a mass environmental police permit But
since those are not considered vessels, they do not enforce it. Uh what happened was the first one, they had not nobody had that was sponsoring it had contacted either the Mass Environmental Police or the Office of Fishing Boating Access, which does
require a permit for anything using the the boat ramps, and it's the 320 CMR, >> right? And they denied it. >> And they denied it. So, and they and then >> uh the second one they tried to come in with a well, we're going to do a fishing
tournament, which you can have one uh snowmobile >> or >> or one ATV for a person to go from sight to sight to sight on the uh on the ice. >> Uh so it's you know, you can't hold a
snowmobile race under the guise of having a a fishing. So they denied the second one, too. Uh so we're covered there and their winter permit rules are very very clear about that. You know, it's uh absolutely a no no go period
with fishing and boating access. So that still leaves us with the problem that the mass environmental police don't have a way to grant a permit or not grant a permit for winter activities.
What happened was they wound up having I think four or five uh mass environmental police. We had three town officers. They had the ambulance uh rescue vehicle and they had the dive
had divers there for the first one. So a lot of money was spent for a private event. >> How many people showed up at this thing? I I'm guessing >> there were probably a couple hundred people that were there >> on the ice >> and no participating in it. Probably
easily 50. >> They had all those >> Well, the problem is is one sank last year. >> Yeah. >> And and and they they really move, you know, so you know, if you got a collision, you could have some serious
or or you break through. >> Yeah. >> Like the one did. Fortunately, it was in shallow water, but uh and they got it out. But the there is nothing that triggers mass environmental police to be there
and there's no permit required by the town to do something like that currently. So, this it kind of leaves it in this gray area. So, I'm not sure. I'm just stating what's there, you know, and what isn't.
I'm >> I'm pretty sure that the uh mass environmental guys have a definition for the term vessel. >> They do. >> So, >> and it's not a vessel, >> right? >> It's absolutely not a vessel.
>> We got to know what that is. >> And and well, we know it is not a vessel. Uh >> not like a boat. >> And that is defined that is defined in Yes. 320. That theirs is 323 CMR. >> Uh it is defined. >> Okay. and and also in their snowmobile
thing, there's no prohibiting of this kind of event. >> So that's part of the same uh CMR. >> Yeah. >> Because they have a winter section, they have the summer section and whatnot. So uh not sure where we go with it. There was there was talk about the town
requiring a permit for uh any major events in town. Uh that has not happened yet. Mhm. >> So it's it's >> and I think part of the issue as you're bringing up is the town effectively had expenses >> Yeah. >> associated with this because they were
paying police officers, right? >> The state had expenses. >> Yeah. >> And because there was no permit process, there was no way for the town or the state to cover those expenses >> and say, "If you want to have this, here's what it cost." So, so this was a a private event that was, you know,
inadvertently um you know, inadvertently funded partially by uh town funds and state funds because there's no ferment process and we had to shut down both. Paul helped me on the second round um
because it was bleeping cold for the first one. Oh my god, was it cold? And I went down and shut the put barrels across and and roped them together and signs on the barrels on the big orange barrels. And so for north ramp and south
ramp I closed the gate. That was that was really tough because there was so much snow piled against it that I had a heck of a time trying to get that gate to move. But anyway, the second round Paul helped me and we we
went down and and uh >> it went pretty quick. >> Went pretty quick and it wasn't anywhere near as cold. But when but I had already what I did is I left the signs on the barrels so didn't have to tape them when it was so cold. Um and it went well and
thank you. I mean we you know two hand two sets of hands made it go fast. So anyway, uh I think we have to wait and see if the town does go with the permit for major events. >> You'd think they will,
>> you know, >> you would think. >> Yeah, it's under discussion now, so we'll see what happens. Obviously, it would help situations like this. >> So, at any rate, um
and couple other things, the uh let's see, what do we have? Oh, the the 141 Congaman Road Marina. You can read that. That's on page 52.
And so I I think the problem has gone away. The problem was is that we were not given uh the copies of the plans or anything up front where we could ask, you know, know that this is going on. and they
said, "Well, you know, you you just have to check the uh the public the public >> notification of the meeting." >> Like, okay, well, >> this is this is lake associated. >> Yeah. >> Reach out and mention it to us because
it's not like we spend our days looking through every public meeting notice to see what's going on. >> And so, the the whole point was they're a land board. landing board is a land board and they were making decisions based on what's going to be done in the
water and that's what we you know basically challenge it. >> Well, we and because you know when the first marina activity was going on it was explained to us that they are a land board, right? >> They have nothing to say about what happens in the water >> but they said they explained that to us
but now you're making a decision about the water even though we were told that isn't your purview. Um, and so the I think the concern that we had was we couldn't tell from the information that was provided was this just
reclassification of four existing slips from transient to rental or was this adding fingers back onto the end in order in order to facilitate that and we couldn't tell because I think in the case at least in our case and we'd asked
the the committee I think the idea of just changing ing from from transient to rental, I don't think, you know, that was a big problem for us doing the four slips, but adding to the dock and creating the congestion problem, which is why we got them to take them off in the first place, would have been a
problem. >> Yeah. >> And that was a concession they made. >> Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. And and the trouble is is it's all new people. It's a new chair. It's a new planner. Uh you know, all these people are new and half
the committee is new. So, you're starting over. >> You're starting over, right? >> And and that's why I wrote what I did. You know, as you know, you've left us hanging. >> Wouldn't you think that the state would have nothing to do with this? >> Yeah. They didn't they don't seem to want they don't seem to want to waste
their mass, >> right? >> Yeah. >> On the wrong side of 495. >> You got it. Um and then so anyway, uh I think one of the things we should make
a recommendation back to the select board is that anything that involves water the lake that we get notified explicitly with all the information um
>> or or at least get notified so we can ask for the information. >> Yeah. >> At the very least in at least know that it's right, >> you know, and not not just, well, here's the agenda. Pick through it, see if there's anything that you >> Right. So, we've got a land board that's
operating in the water and doesn't notify us. So, uh, and like I say, we can only make recommendations. We can't we can't enforce anything. But we didn't weren't even really given the opportunity to uh
>> go through the drawings and you know the plans and then ask questions, >> right? >> And and because the plan that's here doesn't show the one you're looking at does not show those two fingers that got lpped off. That's the original plan, >> right?
>> So basically this one out there away. >> Yeah, that one doesn't exist. Those two on the end are gone >> in order to take some of the finch out of that of that zone >> because the the bad part about what we complained about when that whole process was going was the plan did not show the
the tunnel going between middle and and south, >> right? And so we we made a scale drawing to explain it. We made a scale drawing, you might remember. And on that scale drawing, we put scale boats, >> right, >> to show, okay, so here's what happens now. You got a boat here pulling out and
a boat here pulling in. Yeah, >> because initially when you just look at the drawing, you look and go, "There's no problem. There's no issue." And then you go, "Okay, well here you have to be able to see through the tunnel. So here's the straight line. So you have to be here." Yes, you see a whole lake, but you have to be right here in order to
see through that tunnel. >> It's like getting into North Pond. >> Now I put you there. Now I put a boat coming through and a boat backing out and you go, "Oh, there isn't enough room." >> Right. >> Right. >> That's why you have to put the scale drawing on. >> Yeah. And those of us who navigate that area didn't need the scale drawing to
know that was a problem. >> And then the CRC did a a video a drone video and showed it was a problem. >> So anyway, we want to make sure that that those end fingers don't go back on.
>> Did they do the meeting on that on the 10th? >> Yeah, that was all done. It was it was supposed to be done like two nights ago, right? >> No, no, no. It was done a week changing. They said March 10th or something on the third. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, they did it on a third. Is
that when they done it? >> Yep. >> So, >> yeah. So, the ship sailed. >> The ship sale, right? there. And so I what I looking do we want to make a recommendation to the select board so
they can follow up that anything that involves the water >> the lake >> the lake >> lake >> that >> that LMC should any that anything that any of the town boards have coming up in known business >> that involve the lake
that board should notify LMC see an explicit of time >> ahead of time of of the fact that they're going to be addressing that issue >> and ideally they would provide us the information. At least we'll know to ask
if we just got told. That's all I'm asking right now is we probably did because I think they send us a copy of the agenda, >> right? >> Yeah. But that but that's just an agenda. Here's a copy of everything we're looking at. Well, but we >> so if they're going to traverse into the
water, they should notify explicitly that this is coming up. >> Yeah, but you you got a good point. >> They they think they did that. >> Well, because So, I guess the problem I have with that is their agendas, they're
a land board, >> right? >> So, their agend So, their agendas almost never involve us. So just peppering us with agendas with everybody's agenda and asking us >> 99% of what they don't care about >> when you know when you know you know
when you write up the agenda this is a lake related thing just be polite and let us know >> we can send an email. >> My my point is >> in our in our communication to the select board we should say right >> spend more information than just the
agenda. >> Yeah. or or either send more than just the agenda or or specifically call out sort of politeness. Call out if you've got a spec if you know you're you've got an issue coming up that involves the
lake just specifically alert LMC this is an upcoming thing. >> Yeah. >> Because the vast majority of your agendas don't involve LMC at all. >> Yeah. So, if we said send um send more information than than just the
agenda, >> take take a take a stab at the wording, pass around, and we'll b it around. >> I have a feeling Norm's got an idea on how to word it. You >> said you want >> No, you want to try? >> I'll I'll put together be willing to read it and comment.
>> Norm, you'd be willing to read it and comment, though. >> Oh, absolutely. >> All right. So I think we should have a motion that we do send something to the right. Yeah. >> All right. So need a a motion from someone. >> Paul Y.
>> I'll second. >> Second. Paul M. >> That's easy. All in favor? >> Opposed. Abstain. All right. I got to go through my magic list. >> Norm Chver. Hi. >> Mike Kums. >> Hi. >> Malcolm Debay. Hi. >> Mike Deb. Hi. >> Dick ran. I
>> Eric Mueller. >> Hi. >> Paul Murphy. Boa. >> All right. Affirmed. >> All right. Now, let me just see if there's anything else. Um, yeah, the RP just as a quick update, which is on page
61. I'll take something that would take an hour to to go through, but that page is the summary of the RFP for uh 26, 27, and 28 lake treatment.
It's already been advertised on to combides. Um I've got gotten responses from requests for the RFP from three different companies now. Um the fourth one >> Solitude one of them. >> Yeah. Okay. And but Solitude bought the
fourth one. >> Oh give us two different prices. >> So So we have three though that are are truly independent. So we'll we'll Good. And uh so that's out there. They there's
going to be a meeting on the 17th here at at uh 10:00 where they can they can see the map of the lake and ask questions. And I've had a few questions already come and the rule is somebody
asks a question, everybody sees the question and everybody sees the answer. So, I've I've been doing that and endless hours in in this thing. I probably have good 60 hours in in uh this RFP already.
Just endless work to to do it. Uh but like I said, it's been advertised responses. So, the non-mandatory meetings on the 17th here at 10:00 a.m. The responses are due on the 24th at 2 p.m. and they will be opened on the 24th
at 2 p.m. and they will be open with the uh with uh Nicole Parker as the CEO. >> So, uh so that's good. that couple other things. The no safe ice, I just thought
it was interesting. 62 and 63. That's from the Capecod.com and they've had unfortunately they've had some pretty bad things go on. In fact, they just had a awful
I we get that paper and uh electronic one and they had one where a boat had gone out a large fishing boat, big fishing boat had gone out had had already had problems. um went out again
and then they don't know what happened, but it capsized >> and they they lost one person. They can't find the other. You know, one died and they can't find the other. >> Out on the Cape. >> Where? >> Down the Cape.
>> Yeah. I don't remember exactly where, but >> yeah, it may be in that article, >> you know, because there's been some very unfortunate events out there uh with again no ice is safe ice and this is the case where the water saltwater ice is
much worse. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And uh so they they're still looking for the second person. Um >> yeah, >> and the the last one is just an FYI if anybody is interested in the civic fund
is looking to fund the um fireworks for this being the 250th. So they're, you know, looking for donations. You got it. Um does anybody have anything else? >> I have a quick question for Nom on the
um LLP. the amount of money that's been collected over the last 10 years. Does anybody know where that is, how it's being used, and what's left? >> No, >> that is available.
All that information is available. >> It is. >> Yeah. >> Yes. It's it's in its own fund and it's got a lot of money in it. >> Can we get next time, David? I got another question for Norm though.
Norm, can that money be used for boys and all the other miscellaneous stuff? I thought it was for lake safety and police patrols. >> Yeah, it lake safety. It could be used for we we purchased the stickers. Um
we we have an account a separate account for the buoys and >> Okay, that's Yeah. >> Okay. >> And and so it's for lake patrols for the LPP, you know, uh enforcement
>> and and like that. So it's it's local permanent just like the the boat ramp fees that are collected can only be spent at the ramps, >> right? >> Okay. And it's got Ellen's fees come out of that. >> Yeah. Right. Administration.
>> Okay. Okay, I'll get there. >> All right. >> Thank you, N. >> You bet. >> Anything else? Anybody? If not, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make that motion. >> Eric, a second.
>> I'll second it. >> Mike D. All in favor? >> Post. >> Staying unanimous. >> Okay. Enter C.