##VIDEO ID:AVEijlvbggE## all right 7 o'clock January 21st 2025 we will open the town of Southwick planning board meeting uh this is being H held in a hybrid manner on zoom and in person here at the Town Hall um if anybody we're recording um and this recording will be posted on town website if anybody else is recording you're more than free to do so so you just need to let us know that being said is anybody recording see any yeses or anything so with that uh 7 o'clock Town plannner report ladies thank you very much Mr acting chair uh right I've got a couple items to share with the planning board um I met uh with Randy Brown Sabrina poer and a resident from the ranch subdivision uh the resident um and some other interested individuals reside along or should say uh in the homes that face Sunnyside Road um there's I think seven or so out there and their desire is to establish a pedestrian connection to the rest of the subdivision you also appreciate that it is U both by distance um as well as typography and and Wetland resources it's segregated from the remainder uh the individual came in sat down and and we discussed the prospect of sidewalks being constructed along Sun Side Road understanding that while reconstruction of sunyside road was on what to call the larger DPW list it wasn't expected to be to rise to the top anytime soon um as well as the fact that uh that probably wouldn't be the first place uh where the town would choose to exercise its an opportunity to expand its sidewalk at work out there um I indicated um to the resident that I'd make myself available to go out and try to we say you know bird dog a couple of options or at least identify no this is not an option because of whing resource areas or whatever opportunities or constraints are evident at that time uh so I'll follow up with the board with with my comments and notes on that uh as I think the the residents are res excuse me board members are aware um we are functioning right now with three uh full members of the planning board and one associate member um I reached out to uh all of our current applicants uh for special permits uh and let them know that um ongoing hearings if if they're trying to get to an approval they need to unanimous vote um from four members so that means that you presumably I am will be appointed to a full member position to fill one of the vacancies that gives us four we still function as a five member um board and so that super majority for votes in approval for a project will be required um for any special permit special modification uh that comes before us um the southw planning board at least in my experience has always been great at communicating um their concerns um when a project comes in that might be Towing line all I ask is that you continue to um be that Earnest with applicant and with me to help um either help guide things through the process whether they're approved or denied that's all matters in the end right uh let's see we did receive a notice from responsible in compliant southw LLC um for their community outreach meeting for a proposed marijuana establishment um at 681 College Highway they've scheduled that meeting for January 31st at 7M and that is at the location of the proposed establishment the 681 College Highway um so I just wanted to share in as a follow-up note to that I think what we're going to do moving forward is incoming mail we're going to scan um we'll put it into a folder that's accessible board members and that way when I send out my um meeting notes I'll repopulate that link in there for everyone to go and take a look that way you can see what the surrounding communities are sharing with us for permits that are you know either sought or granted um and other um correspondents directed to the planning board uh I know that adds a little bit of an extra step I think it makes it easier to get the information to everyone um lastly I'll share that we received an announcement today that a what I thought was a dormant and dead planning assistant Grant application from last fall um apparently went through another round of consideration and was granted so this is for the next step in we conducted the analysis of our zoning bylaws and to a certain degree the subdivision regulations hope that this is going to a heavier rewrite effort um now it Bears mentioning that since that application uh was submitted we went through the 771 College Highway appeal um and we learned at least a few things from our talents legal um Consultants as well as the parties that F lawsuit against the town um so there I think are some there's some more texture that I'd like to fold into that rewrite process but nonetheless I guess the good news is that it looks like and opportunities on the horizon town is not yet contracted for that work but uh but the announcement is in hand that's it for today all right thank you Mr planer all righty 705 public com comment is there anybody in the audience on line who has a topic they'd like to discuss that's not already on the agenda CR all right with that uh actually I would recommend that we before we get into seventh time of the first public hearing to jump into some of the routine business and talk about something you already alluded to planning board reorganization as most people know already uh Mr dhy has uh retired from the planning board after years of service I want thank him for that um as well as Mr Sutton has also uh want to thank for his uh support as well so therefore we have a vacancy in the chair chairperson's uh position uh that we will need to fill um personally I would like to nominate Jessica Thorton um she's been here as both the assistant and a member for many years has a lot of experience as a very in my mind a a good really good command of the overall bylaws and our processes I think it' make a great chair I'll second from that fantastic uh do roll call vote da i s i Jessica th and I I don't have an official vote but I am fully we need a drum roll no but with that I would like to officially renominate David Spina as Vice chair and would make that motion I'll second that right roll call vote Jessica Thor and I right and neither Mr Sutton or Mr dty were Representatives on any other committees or boards outside of that so you don't need to read that's that's that good go all right that I will turn over the r this meeting to the chairo welcome Madam CH Ry you're Bor that's for efficiency here minut total amount of time of my meeting and therefore I have 18 minutes and 11 meeting for cl my average is fantastic Beau all right well next on the agenda for 710 is 660 College Highway higher value trading thank you madam chair or Mrs chair Madam chair we'll go that let stay more formal then we'll we'll build towards something less hey you that's right Madam we do have a continuous request in hand from Jason fi uh applicants uh Mr fii says unfortunately we did not make the January meeting to obtain the provisional license we asked we move to the February 4th meeting date as there a chance as there is a chance we would make the January 23rd meeting uh if we fa to do so we will request an additional delay thanks best regards Jason what is our schedule like the February you know I mentioned earlier um when everybody points out that name plates were not at the table that that would be the first of thank you about many but at least you know a few things let's just see if I have was smart you ma'am you don't want to know what check my the only thing we have on that meeting right now is uh 652 and that's at 710 so wide open at one all right so I would hear a motion to continue the hearing for 660 College Highway to 7:15 pm on February 4th da so moved take us a second roll call vote just and I da I I and Dian will join at public hearing when she is appointed let's take a look at the meeting minutes you have in front of you uh our edic meeting units this is going time to take a walk through make certain directions you'll see in there the majority of the edits were language as opposed to technically new information everybody else is good I would hear a motion to approve the meeting minutes for September 10th with the edits presented Dave second roll call vote Jessica th I Dave I okay I'd like to hear a motion for the meeting minutes for September 24th 2024 as amended Dave still move second roll call vote just and I I for the meeting minutes October 7th I hear a motion to approve move second call vote th and I da I for the meeting minutes of October 21st do I hear a motion to approve Dave been so I wasn't there well then I will come back next uh were you there the 7th yes the 21st the 21st yes and it was a it was a joint no I think yes that was a joint meeting joint just carry over we just next we'll carry those over to the next time and that way so much moment okay all right that brings us to 7:15 opening of the public hearing for proposed acccessory dwelling unit five make your rock papers reads the public hearing yeah I guess I'll do it I'll take it right all right so we're going to open this public hearing on Tuesday January 21st 7:15 pm in person and Via zoom in the land use hearing room at 454 College Highway notice is hereby given in accordance with the provision of Master gener Law chapter 4A Section 5 that the planning board will hold a hybrid public hearing on Tuesday January 21st at 7:15 p.m. The Zo and in thean hearing room Town Hall 754 College Highway souck to consider amending the code of the town of souck chapter 185 zoning by adding a new accessory dwelling unit section to Define and allow where appropriate the construction of such units and their usage Zoom meeting information is presented details regarding the proposal may be reviewed by contacting the town planner John Godard at his phone or email any person interested or wishing to be heard on this matter should appear at the time and place designated as called by former chair Michael FL well I uh provide an intro yes or an update really what it comes down to um okay if we March back a couple of months um the midf fall uh we submitted a request to the Blackboard with your endorsement uh to hold a public hearing uh on this matter uh it was known at that time that the state um uh through the affordable housing act had pass legislation that would allow accessory dwelling units uh in districts where single family homes are allowed as a as a buy right option uh to land owners selfic as with many communities in the Commonwealth has doesn't have um doesn't address accessory dwelling units uh essentially they were not allowed this is the nature of our as not mentioning there it's not an option uh so the call the imposition from the state to allow this as a pite activity uh meant that well we should come in and ensure that at least there is a review process um outside of the special permit or any other discretionary permitting path uh to allow the planning board to look at uh location um to some degree we'll call it Aesthetics um safety access parking um provision of utilities for an accessory dwelling unit uh at that time um in through the following months I I think I shared a number of questions how would an accessory dwelling unit be managed for example at um and an State loot one by one there were a few um say Outreach meetings sponsored by the state uh conducted I should say that I know Madam chair attended as as well as your truly and we were able to identify okay the bottom line is if it's allowed if a single family home is allowed by right in the district an accessory dwelling unit um is also now a bught accessory use out there so that so if you have an estate lot for this particular matter it's treated exactly the same um the suggested bylaw does direct applicants through our site plan review process which I think I would describe as almost administrative and we are looking to bring someone through um and check those Public Safety access parking location within you know uh allow setbacks and so on and so forth out there so there's only a few I'm going to call it remaining questions in my mind in light of the process we identify in this draft bylaw that I'll here um I'll zoom in just a moment here that remaining question comes down to at least for me and cour hearing plan board members um the fact that more than one accessory dwelling unit on a property requires a special permit um that's language from the state's draft regulation uh the comment period for that regulation just recently closed um and they have also promised a model um by org or communities um so I don't have um any further thought on that particular component um by directing them through the special process we can make it as simple as saying we need to apply we need to I think think about well how many might be um acceptable I know varies from Project to project but I suppose you know through State the state legislation in the case that only one essentially is a bu right and opportunity home location Madam chair uh anything further you like to add for texture before we a walk through the draft B no I think you got it something on zo good Mr f we're currently discussing the draft accessory dwelling unit bylaw a particular address yeah so that that applies townwide yes okay let me share apologies thank you no worries okay so for the purpose of our discussion uh the definition uh an exception dwelling unit I into this new graft byw as it is absent elsewhere I'll just uh take a walk through and describe what each are you sharing I was trying to share appears I'm not sharing yet it is good to have assistance yes but I tried to I didn't actually all right we go okay so we begin by defining what an accessory dwelling unit is um and making reference to state law and under that state law I believe we're looking at a maximum of correct me if I'm wrong I think it's 900 square feet uh in area um it can be a converted garage it can be a converted attached garage attic space addition some components or frankly it's own Standalone um structure all right um so where in out do we allow single family homes by right um in our Agriculture and Conservation District single plan homes are by special permit uh R40 and R20 are um by single family home zoning districts uh r28 and r20b are multif family housing districts that I believe I should double check write that down make sure that single homes are exuded is there a lot siic go with this [Music] or for example you have a house let's say built on two acres which like an our 40 that you need that can you put this on top of that because then so right now they're the only constraint when it comes to Dimensions is can you fit if you will an accessory dwelling unit um which within uh the accessor setbacks um of a of a property so for sure there will be some sites certainly in The Lakes area where dimensionally nothing can fit there without a variance but elsewhere if you have a conforming lot I can see in most circumstances you're really constrained by you know uh Bedrock Clips or weapons then there's room you to put in the dwelling unit as well as a paring space so and so forth okay um so uh we get to the you schedule I already talked about where they're allowed here in town so same is not being allowed in our um business or industrial uh zones by right um I do make reference that Wellhead Protection District um and you'll have to pardon me and this was composed back in October I'm going to just highlight that section there because I want to make sure I'm not um saying or inserting language here I pull fast on Town Council uh and saying that oh if you're in the direction District which may EXT which does extend to uh businessmen in t zones that I'm not somehow uh indicating that there's an opportunity where actually is one um that brings us to the next section only one ID is matter right is is allowed on any property um and we can explore further discussion where rather and how many maybe Allowed by special permit uh adus are not allowed um as short-term rentals but we are talking about longer term dwelling opportunities uh to provide this to housing and not to uh if you will the short-term uh Cent clientele dimensional requirements 900 squ feet maximum need to comply with all lot are front set back in height requirements as may be applicable to single family homes [Music] um and AD is being limited as I know said height above but I have it repeated down below maximum two stor 35 ft in height I suppose the opportunity there is to make reference to that multiple story option again um with read through here alongside planning board members segment that says as Maybe applicable to single family hanses want to make sure that that's right I want to make sure that we're talking about the and we're we're considering if you will the opportunity to place home the planning board excuse me accessory dwelling unit where the planning board deems it to be appropriate as I read through this right there that's I said earlier oh it's anywhere accessory setback you know would allow structure we know that in certain cases that's 10et off of property line and that's appropriate in some circumstances for an accessory structure um if it's defensible and I'm happy to confirm so with um Town's legal consultant um that those setbacks could be increased so that an accessory dwelling unit has the same requirement as dwelling as that language suggests I'm happy to explore that parking at least one offstreet parking space must be provided for all adus parking can be in a driveway or a garage um the construction of a new garage to serve an Adu shall require special per from the planning board um again that is um suggested language I don't um I'll look to plan board members if there's any thoughts about that either providing an opportunity or a constraint uh that's unwelcome so John go ahead if somebody has a handicapped parent that moves in with them who doesn't drive do they need a parking spot as this is written yes I think there's no troll uh at the state law level or they're telling us we cannot control who lives uh in an accessory dwelling unit but understanding that that accessory dwelling unit may be occupied by anybody moving forward I think it's uh FR if if uh an applicants going through the trouble to construct um this dwelling um with the necessary utilities uh to serve it I think it's reasonable to fact that okay let's have you know a dedicated new space available or at least space on site available so that're not on the road yeah not creating new problems at existing residences that section right there all ad required to be submitted under chapter 185 section 37 site plan review pursu to the requirements proceedes not therein provided the SE shall only be limited to the following AD should minimize tree vegetation slow removal and grade changes the architectural style of the Adu should be compatible with the existing principal dwelling on the subject property the Adu shall be serviced with adequate water supply and either sanitary sewer or Septic Service the final plan shall demonstrate adequate parking as required here under and shall maximize convenience and safety for vehicular and pedestrian movement within the property in relation to to adjacent ways planning board May requested reasonable plan modifications of the site plan for an Adu and may impose reasonable conditions that are not inconsistent with this bylaw or the provisions of the state law relationship and non-conformities if an Adu is proposed for pre-existing non-conforming primary residents requirements of chapter 185 section 28 um that's for noncon nonconforming structures uses and lots um shall apply provided that no special permit may consider the Adu use or impos conditions on such use that's it it's uh it is fairly brief rur trending to provide a path uh forward to ensure uh the proper implementation of this within the bounds of stage mod so uh few controls um few necessary controls Landing board members have any comments as general I find anytime you write a number down and then you write it down the same number some other place just the matter of time before those numers won't disagree so I recommend instead of like the two stories at 35 ft height or refering the other thing let's just merely say you know the requirement the height requirements specified in paragraph whatever I can do this a review look at that I Only Could See thank you I have a question about per where it says the construction of new garage to serve an Adu will that include like an addition onto an existing garage as well like adding an addition onto a garage that's already standing that's a good question and this was potential language recommended by the state not necessary language that we have to adopt in the section that's correct and actually this language is is not recommended by the state uh in uh discussing this matter with other communities some models were shared and if you will this particular model felt uh to be the best fit for the town of southw because that was It was kind of my question like do we when do we require a special permit for a garage right we wouldn't do it if if a single family homeowner comes in and says I'm going to build a garage she's going to go to the building department and get his garage as a sent and then 6 months later come back and say I'm going to install an Adu into this garage I just happened to build it six months ago as opposed to it triggering a special permitting process with us just because the garage and the Adu are coming in together as opposed to two yeah think same thing right yeah a garage doesn't ever trigger a special permit for us in and of itself right and I don't know that it would be fair to punish the homeowner that's adding the Adu with a garage as opposed to a or the first floor edition whatever it may be the only uh that makes perfect sense to me the only comments I'll um share is that the garage is excluded from the 900 square foot limit um for an Adu and so um you know 12 by oh I don't know 24 wor picking numbers out that' be a manageable size for a single garage guess that's the footprint might be considered and so if to your point we don't require a special permit or that opportunity um elsewhere if we want to have a greater control over Adu that has a slightly bigger um footprint then is allowed that's just an opportunity but I it would seem like the the easy answer for that applicant would just you know I'm building a garage and then come in afterwards and say now I'm chopping off 900 square feet within this big garage and turning it into an Adu I see right um not that I'm inviting people to do the wrong thing but we're not going to legislate it and make it um how about for the multiple adus option we don't want building a dozen 80s and and don't you their own however if somebody has a 5 acre parcel and has an interior piece of their home they have a 3,000 foot home already and they Lop off an inside and make that have a separate entrance and there's their Adu and then they say well we also would like to have one small one in the back because not only is my mother-in-law coming in but my mom is moving in too so that' be reasonable but then it gives it the Special permitting process of a little bit Yeah a higher intense look from us to make sure that the property isn't going to become overwhelmed right and yeah so are you thinking something the effect of as many as two adus provided one is attached to the primary dwelling do we want Li that or just up to a maximum of X ad special up to I would say yeah that's probably right I'm thinking yeah if it's if it's easier and more cost efficient for the homeowner to build two separate sheds and they've got the physical space for it that you know one's a new shed one's in in the garage yeah is that it doesn't necessarily make the intensity of use and everything else right and that's our part of it too is that any number any of these depending on where they're located in town are going to run into the needs of their own water and septic and Sewer so that that's going to be a little bit self-limiting and of itself right may I ask a question since we're uh having a dialogue and I don't want to lead the discussion but the state's um legislation essentially turns every single family residential district into a multi family oper at least within the scale discussion of what we're talking right uh so the idea of allowing a second deess dwelling unit um given that it can functionally uh operate U seems to make sense I guess I want to ask the question is there would we like to I can develop I'm G to call it certain um factors that would play into that minimum perhaps lot size where one may have the opportunity to consider second or at least or eliminate the opportunity of considering a second AG of you um does that go too far um we have the opportunity to be to to be exercise some discretion once we go beyond that first accessory dwelling unit and how much discussion do we want to build into it and limit future boards we also need some control on it too you know you got to be have to have some control over this too I mean hopefully somebody comes in wants to do it and it's piece of cake no problem but it gets too complicated if we just let it go we have no control of it at all so I think we need to have some controls if it gets over and above the 900 foot Mark or whatever there I think when you goes above the 900 square foot it can still be considered an Adu but it's not by right right a so in that circumstance somebody could come in and look for the 900 square foot that they're allowed to by right and then ask for a second that could be a th000 square feet and we would have the flexibility under the special permitting process at that point to say that would be too much of an intensity back to the board right yeah okay so I think uh I guess what I'm interpreting is that some guard rails not uh if you will an exhausted list but some basic guards could be um suggested for that special permit option okay maybe look at if it's two or more then you have to have the square footage as required for a multi family in that District okay because it goes from 40,000 to 60 right and the R40 yes and that would be a objective parameter for fut board to say you know all right we can consider it because you have 10 acres of property here we'll take a look at it that um are there any comments from town officials on this not at this time not at this time although I feel I've uh spoken too much already on this topic Town official let this let thr this out there um last Thursday I had a brief discussion late in the day with Chiefs the Fano whats um there's some more texture to be added to this discussion um about the relationship of accessory glowing units um and how the town handles them and certain funds that um are available to the town Through Fire Department uh Chief was described it as a there was a last minute I'm going to say condition um added to funding that if the town was not allowing dwelling units then that funding would no longer be available it's an important funding source for the fire department y y y i you know as of today we can't control what's on VES today I want to make sure that I say this out loud so that uh when I receive that information we can look and make sure that what we're doing uh doesn't somehow inhibit that uh particular opportunity um that is a moving Target mention now for everyone's consideration so John I've being said let's say you building house fire department requir to put an assistant program in if you add to the dwelling do you need to make a bigger system that's something that that's a great question uh let me put it this way you ask Chief yeah we'll look for some feedback on that uh just you know the language uh in the state regulation that makes it clear that the town can't unreasonably uh impose conditions however and so I'm as respecting the fact that within a given area that is served by asister today I guess we have to ask the chief what's the impact of adding accessory building units out there then we can explore whether or not it fits within the town's opportunity or state planning board's opportunity to impose a condition that would somehow expand the capacity to require that additional construction right because on more V one you know so just you put 10 hes and six people want to put a apartment or add-on it's going to make a big difference in the yeah absolutely I will make a note to mention that to the Chief and first name and address for the record Dian gale 5 Road you have a question on your interpretation of the parking space it's parking space not necessarily a garage space where do the setbacks or do the setbacks apply to the driveway and parking areas or just the dwellings like without that prohibit something if you need to make one more parking space would it then not fit shall I we'll give it a step um so you asked an interesting question if only because the uh zoning bylaws here in town for off street parking do can troll some degree set back Froman Jason property lines uh for you know single family residential purposes I don't think that gets triggered and so I'm wondering aloud um if that path maintains intact you're looking for that accessory use or if any people the paring setbacks are written in come into play and making sure that's not an unreasonable um constraint well my thought was I'll look into that I think Jason was he just said he didn't have anything for us right okay any other public comments may an address please yep Jody 258 Feeding Hills Rog s mess so these going to be rentals educate me on this whole other side of the it I heard no short-term rental I heard that yes so that means it could be a long-term rental yeah so so in theory you'd have to go back to Board of Health for the septic absolutely right Title Five is Title Five and does it trigger with our water department a separate meter because it's a separate dwelling with a separate residence I mean so living here that's not part of the house so when they stiff the water you know does that open that can of worms up too just a question I'm not looking for an answer I'm just just a question and a good question at that um for sure the S plan riew process uh does bring in not only the public safety but also F to health and um there anyways so the good news it's it's it's uh integral to it um if I can volunteer Mr Brown to comment on no no I know yeah I just fa my house as a meter and then of course we have a technically a farm in the back which you know in theory I could rent out someday and stiff the water department so no no it's true so so it's it's separate for a reason to make sure no one screws anybody so here we go adding a dwelling and you know just thinking if it's not short term then you know if I if I could ask yeah we have we have looked into Randy Brown DPW director um we haven't put any policies in place yet but but I have talked I've talked to other communities and see what they have there are some that require separate Services separate meters for the two Services some that require they want just the one service you know the where everything goes to to the main Meer in the house and then a separate Meer a separate service from the house to the Ed so there's there's two schools of thought both have worked we figured out which where we're going to leave okay and then the last stupid question um it does not affect the te in any way correct no okay no be three separate loans one day they're commercial one day maybe they're not because maybe fits a little different just throwing it out there first some I think the two3 side open to the public would no I got you all the all adus they have to have proper sanitation food prep and dwelling areas not I would propose that those probably wouldn't yeah Miss Gale I would guess if you are partitioning off a room or two in your home I would propose we not require a separate meter that very well could be your family could be students could be anything but it is within your existing home home and then it becomes the penalty on now you have two minimums to meet for a water bill in an existing home that has the capacity for that number of people so I were consider that the problem that comes up there is if you're taking a room in your house to divide let's say for somebody else and you want a separate electric separate water could be wired half the house to do that that's it's quite a penalty yeah in a water you know I just I think person would be better off renting room for extra1 dollars a month period let you know just let them hand it in house you may do that now yeah right and it's not called an Adu right but we want people to do it right by right but not penalize them for doing it so just a consideration any other public comments here in person or online one last thought yeah we have R20 and R40 zones allow by right residences therefore Allowed by right adus AC Zone special permit for residents I don't think there's a provision right now that would allow an Adu and an AC Zone do we want to add that by special permit question a lot of it was my thought where we have it noted here right um that any special permitting of a single family home whether it's because it's out of District or you know right what that we aren't supposed to look at that circumstance when it comes to the Adu by right so if somebody comes in and gets a special permit in the AC Zone we aren't supposed to go out of our way to block what we otherwise we would say the single family home is okay in this AC District it's fine we whatever parameters we would put on that one single family home we aren't supposed to then make it more difficult to prevent an ad so like if the special permit wasn't because it's in the AC Zone but because it was an estate lot right I'm not going to go out of my way when writing a special permit to make a buite Adu not possible for that special permit unless there's like an extreme circumstance that you would say we're preemptively blocking your right to do that no that's not what I'm suggesting I think what I'm asking noring I don't think the way the BW is written right now because the before at least it didn't speak to Special adus by a special permit in an AC Zone if say somebody like me who lives in an AC Zone has a house on the AC Zone if I want to put up an Adu MH is there a process by which I could do that I think the answer is no right now right now should there be okay I would that we would make that part of the special pering process right that if a single family home exists outside of the districts where they are by right the town of South recognizes that the opportunity for an Adu could be managed via a special permit in process right that makes sense to me I think that's uh ADV manages a circumstance that's likely to come up um at some point and it's not uh unreasonable to those landowners with single family homes um in the AC District anything else okay all right then let's hear a motion to continue this to the next meeting hold on on one second if you want to share that Mr did have um a question if the home has capacity and a septic does it require a separate system or can it tie in um at the risk of stepping outside my Lane my presumption and understanding of title fivez going too far already I think that's an allowable circumstance um there are times when a system is oversized for a particular reason maybe some didn't build as much as they intended or whatever um but uh we could that would be an element examined by for help they would review that just as we would a one or two bedroom Edition right yep so we had something on at 710 and then 7:15 cor all right do I hear a motion to continue the accessory dwell dwelling unit bylaw discussion to 720 on February 4th Dave SP sing second roll call vote Jessica th and I Dave SP I singer I all right 7:20 planning board time this notice is hereby given in accordance with the provision of Mass general laws chapter 4A section 11 that the planning board and fre Warden will hold a hybrid public hearing on Tuesday January 21st 2025 at 7:20 p.m via zoom in the land use hearing room Town Hall 44 College Highway South mask for a request from the south Tre warden for written consent and approval to remove multiple trees on Edam road which is a designated Scenic Road Zoom meeting and telephone ass information is given the applicant proposes to remove multiple public shade trees along Ed Hulen road for roadway and drainage improvements The Proposal is in accordance with the Massachusetts General Law chapter 40 section 15 C and chapter 87 Section 3 a copy of The Proposal may be inspected by contacting the town planner John Gard at his phone or email address any person interested or wishing to be heard on the application should appear at the time and manner designated as called by our prior chair Michael dhy and Randall Brown tree Warden Mr Brown how we doing today wonderful you please share with us so uh Randy Brown DPO director DPW director and also tree Warden um so we have a special permit for removal of several trees in anul Road the total is 189 trees um all of them have a tags like this on on the tree um so this came about within the past year Ed hul road is a pretty deteriorated road if you haven't driven down it uh needs some work um in addition of Paving and also needs some drainage work so as we started planning out these Road improvements um we identified these trees that we would like to remove uh really for two two reasons one is to uh add incorporate a a new drain system on the road um not just just a surface drain which you see they catch basins and manholes but we want to incorporate a an under drain system on the road Edge um those are typically constructed on the on the road shoulder and that's help capture any groundwater that's under the road and uh help it um help keep the road dry and the second reason is also to open up the canopy so if you ever drive down a road you've got a pretty heavily treed area the roads usually in a little worse shape in when you drive into an area where the same road is is an open open field uh so getting that that sunlight and that that uh air um onto the asphalt really does help preserve it and keep it in longevity so saying hope any snow there in J hopefully not no so those are the reasons why we want to open up the canopy and remove these trees uh um for that purpose so we did go out we did tag the trees there are 189 of them as I mentioned earlier uh the trees are primarily located on the east side of the road which is the odd numbered route uh number house side um there are a handful on the southern side of the road that are on the the west side of the road um their trees are within 10 to 12 feet off the edge of the road uh we do feel that when we do put the under drain system on the road Edge that probably going to compromise those root systems anyways the Tre is probably not going to survive they may survive for a little long a little while but ultimately that that tree that root of servant will probably kill the tree um for that reason we are looking to remove those in your packet there's a list of all the trees what I did is I marked station numbers along the edge of the road um station 0 1 2 3 4 each station is at 100 foot interval and so I have the station number the size of the tree the type and the nearest address most of these trees are Oaks and Maples U there's a handful of cherries and Locust and other species in there um I do think that several of these trees probably are probably already dead in disease any anyways uh we could remove them on I remove them as tree Warden um but U just keeping everything open um we marked every tree on that side of the road that we're looking to remove I will say that um if you drove down the road we put these tags just on the one side of the road on the opposite side of the road is the utility wires um ever source is planning some tree work on at hokom Road and not just at hokom but really that whole part of town um they are not part of this hearing request here they I believe are exempt from um having to go through a tree hearing for tree removals for their purposes so for but for Public Works purposes um we need to have this public hearing to to remove to discuss to remove these trees there are some trees that are near uh stream Crossings and Wetland areas uh we will coordinate with Conservation Commission on those we do have a special permit we call it a generic order conditions through concom that allows us to do work within the buffer zone um so we have not had the discussion with kcom yet but once uh this process wraps up through this board we'll have the discussion with the Conservation Commission how far back on property are most Tre back I me so the furn going back is 12 feet off the edge of the road and they're all within the right way the right way is beyond the edge of where these trees are question um I drove down the road I saw all the trees there's a few little sections where there's trees that are not marked that look like they're about even with that tree line is that going to in fact the installation of the drainage system I don't no I I I don't think so we haven't um finalized the drain system design yet okay it's more of a concept at this point okay um and but I I don't think what I the trees that we marked I don't think will be required for the drainers but anything beond that we don't need okay for that purpose any other board question I open it up to comment um Representatives Miss scale um what's the mileage span that these are at hul road is just under it's about eight ten of a mile it's the entire long y y any other Town officials or public comment to when as far as the cutting of the just your name and address for the record I'm sorry kinfield 22 at V road so question timing yeah I I would expect um so we need to go out to bid for this work so I would hope that it would be done late winter early spring at the latest of this year yes and then once we do the tree work we can proceed with the drainage improvements after and do you have a a time frame because you talked about the trees you talked about the drainage and then you talked about p you have a time frame for those three things yeah so the funding we got this past year was partial so the expectation hope is that the next year we get more funding for Road improve and drain drainage improvements we'll complete the necessary work to do and at hul road so we have 600 $600,000 right now for the tree work and to start the drainage I don't think that's going to finish the drainage but that'll give us a good start on the drainage work it needs to be done and then I'm hoping that uh through the budget process this year FY 26 budget we'll get the remainder of the money that we need to finish the job so I'm hoping we can do it all within this calendar year that's that's the goal all all the work so by the by Next by the Fall the road will be Tre is done drainers work and the road is pained um not understanding everything question about the trees being removed I understood what what exactly does that drainage is that similar to the drainage that was put in initially where I've seen Stones because the water drains down not out onto the road is that it it captures groundw so typically there's a perforated pipe in the ground and it's encased in crush Stone so any groundw goes into the crush Stone into the pipe and gets carried away down to you know a local water body or stream which is somewhat what they've done initially in some parts of the possibly possibly yeah it may not be working that well I think uh I think I I I wasn't involved when that was paid I think there were a lot of Corners that were cut when that work was done so I want to do it the right way and when you mentioned eversource um we're on the side of the road where eversource is taking the trees uh you made the comment that and I'm sure you're right I guess eversource doesn't have to abide by the train I mean the shade portion of the road or the scenic portion of the road they're exempt from the scenic byock or the regulation correct um they can they can remove the trees within the right of way they have that ability to do that but they may have also trees on private property which they should be coordinating with the property owners yeah because what they've been talking to us about we we've had the gentleman out a couple of times from what he's told us they source and take anything that's 15t from the line correct which I think in a lot of cases is on personal property on your side of the road it is absolutely yeah I think the utility PS are probably located on the edge on the property line or very close to it that's what they typically like to do that so if you're talking 15 feet a lot of that 15 feet on your house side is going to be on your properties right which is true for probably just about everyone on that side of the road I think some of us have cleared more than others ourselves but on our own property but some of the areas that they're taking it is real woods like where you're taking it on your toite will the road itself be any wider than it is now concern with speed uh I don't think it's going to get any wider than it is now I don't I don't see a need to do that it's it's I haven't measured it would you know John it's probably about 24 feet 26 feet wide I think that's an adequate width for that road I don't see a widening ver widening it any other public comment or questions just wondering if anybody knows after all the trees are removed does it remain a Scenic Road in our inventory of Scenic roadways I believe so so scenic Road the Vista it's not it's it covers any tree within the right of way and also stone walls so if there's any you can't deserve remove a stone wall within the right of way without going through the same process through planning board there is a stone wall on North Side uh by binding Hill I believe that's right on the right of way I'm not I can't think of any others looking at the little Fields I I don't think there's any other stone walls that yeah would fall into where you're talking right they go they might be deeper into the woods up at the end by winding Hill were the only stor wall that I'm over yeah so I think that's still the town adopted these roads as a Scenic Road there they're still considered Scenic roads um we're not taking every tree within the right of way we're just going 10 to 12 feet off you know I think a lot of the locations the RightWay extends have some here the rway extends at least 20 15 20 feet along most of the road so we're not taking so the trees that are still would still be governed by the scenic Road within the right did you have S little field 22 at Road the when you mentioned the drainage uh and that's underground drainage and we know from the current road there's questions where there is no drain you can attest to it across the street when you do the drainage you said you're still in the planning phases is it going to be the whole road that you're going to include in the drainage so that that's yeah most likely yeah we we got to finalize that plan but I I believe that we're going to put this underd drain system along most of probably on the that that odd side of the room that seems where the water ground water's coming from that direction so um I think most that side is going to have the in dring system which would be good that that seems to be the biggest problem area of the road because it seems to get the most water and there are no there's no drainage there was a little like Pond forming across from your house I think this would help that quite a bit Yeah so the catch basins that are going to be replaced are basically the ones that are in existence yeah we're going to we may add more catch basins but but they're going to definitely have we're keeping catch bases in the road yeah absolutely I there's concern about you know anytime a road gets paved and it's you know it's a nicer road to drive that the people will go down it more quickly there won't be any change in the speed limits on the road it's 30 miles an hour now will it stay that I don't I don't see the speed limit changing no we've we've lived there since 1977 so we've gone through the dirt road phase to the paving and now this new and there was concern when it was originally paved that it would become a Speedway um unfortunately there are cars that go down there very quickly but um most people abide by the speed limit and we're just hoping it stays that way I believe Mr fani had a question Mr fan thank you everyone uh may I ask what the speed limit is on Mort Vining Road on Mort Vining or Ed come you talking Mort Vining please I think I'm not sure it's probably most likely 30 is is sou L is 30 I'm guessing 30 but I'm not sure about that so that lends to my point we all know I've lived here my whole life I live on 19 Ed hul uh most of the all the residents I have only the only I haven't to a resident yet on our town in our street that's for this I would defer to the little Fields they seem to have the biggest issue and for a fraction of the cost something could be done that was similarly done in front of Dave msi's house on uh CLA Anderson but Mort Vining 30 miles an hour we all know what goes on there it runs parallel to Route 10 they're they're traveling 50 at least and there's cars going through there at 60 we all know that and they're going through there because it's a it's a really nice Road and it's a it runs parallel to Route 10 and I live here I see the commuters do it so when our road gets improved they're going to zigzag on Vining Hill and they're going to lose a little time at the step sign and then they're going to hit the gas on Ed hul Ed hul is enjoyed by adjoining neighborhoods uh mothers and strollers husbands and wives people and their dogs they come to our street to walk it in peace and safety and Tranquility I I live in the middle so I have the longest commute on the road I love this road uh nobody comes down this road unless they live here it's very rare that anyone uses this road unless you live here so it's not harming anyone I would defer to the little Fields if they have a problem I would I would completely defer um but everyone I've spoke to and again I defer to the little Fields uh we love our street just the way it is and you you mentioned one of the benefits is shade we love the shade and we're Hardy new englanders a little bit of snow and which we don't get much of up here is not a problem for us Hardy new englanders ever source is going to take care of the other side if that side was left as is I and I think everyone who enjoys the street from Kimberly Drive and all the others who who walk the street who you know I drive up and down the street at 10 15 miles an hour cross into the opposite lane people don't even have to look over their shoulder on the street when they walk with their strollers and their dogs and their spouses they love the street who is going to benefit by this uh if it's the little Fields I support them um which again I recommend we do something similar uh a targeted fix like was done in front of Miz place um and so those are my points respectfully and I thank you for your time thank you anything in that you want to address Mr Brown I I didn't hear from Littlefield I don't know if that was your maybe I misunderstood your questions but concerns you know our concern you and I have had many discussions about the road as far as what happens across the street for us it sounds as though what you're proposing will solve that for us per se Our concern is nothing you can control to do what you want to do the road's got to be improved we've liked the road Improvement clearly we're concerned kind of what Don's talking about we are concerned about what we see even with the potholes people go as you know as you live on you see where people cut through to John Macy and John Mason dur so yes that is a concern we have but there's no way to alleviate what we're dealing with without doing what you're doing I don't know if I'm being being clear on that I don't see how I can say here don't fix the road because I don't want that road does need to be improved you you guys do the best you can on a regular basis coming out and trying to repair it it sounds as though what you're proposing will alleviate that I think any other questions from board members no I will take a motion to close the hearing da move second call vote and I I do I a motion to approve the public shade tree removals as in this application second call vote J and I I I thank you brown ey [Music] change almost on 8 o' 1:41 paman Road continue public here generous of the uh going CH that at 8:00 I do have a continuous request uh from Mr egleson observing if there was some reorganization necessary the board uh may I request my public continued to February 4th thank you K so i' left off with something at 7:20 so let's make this 7:30 I'll hear a motion to continue the public hearing for 141 KGAN road to 7:30 pm on February 4th Dave assembly roll call vote J and I Dave I I all right uh I was out of work for much of today so I did not touch base with uh Mr salar for him to contribute at the next meeting uh we're looking forly per and praying for the FL one water certifications uh and I should say as related to the reevaluation of infrastructure security so that brings us to I'm sorry you want really quick did did we do you get a chance to do the planning board annual report or is that we're pushing that off to next time right I have the existing one here to share with everybody we Rin 30 seconds of conversation about it invite any contribution which I almost exhaust right there if you have nothing new we'll look at it later and then we can start with the master plan implementation committee request the priorization of assigned TX Norm do you want to come up and talk us through this I came tonight I came here for the 141 K Road was just continued oh wish [Music] but I'll always be glad to talk about an M name and address for the record Norm Cher 100 Brookshire Avenue we sent out this uh the last couple of weeks officially the action items both lead and support actions all the Committees so they now there were 50 of them they now have their their roles established in addition we have asked that you prioritize your lead and your support actions now that's going to be a little difficult for the planning board because they've got 31 lead actions and 23 support actions okay um but I think it's important to prioritize them so that you know where you stand and we know how everybody else feels about that as well because all the support action activities that you have at leadon we're going to have inputs from the support groups as well uh I have offered for the planning board and the select board are the two boards with the most action items and also the agricultural commission I believe has a bunch uh an alternative way to try to priori Iz and that is either by first vote having each member vote on what the top 10 or 15 are and the bottom 10 of 15 are send that data to me I'll accumulate it come back to you and say okay here's your your top 18 here's your bottom 18 or whatever that number comes out to be prioritize those and then what's left in the middle you prioritize separately and I'll be glad to accumulate that data and I think that'll help you get there faster that is an awfully generous and much needed offer of help I think that that will definitely allow us to get your answer so that you can move forward compiling our answers with everybody else's um to be honest we did not get these specific lists until later today had there's a confession uh I'll interrupt you right there Mr chever because Mr chever did his part and distributed this well in advance I mistake of forwarding the wrong list well everybody knows what my priorities are well also I sent in addition to Senter John I sent it to to U the prior chairman by not knowing his his resignation was immediate I'll be glad up right um but yes so now that we have them and we have the correct ones in front of us and we have three members soon we'll have four members you at least four person viewpoint on ranking great and you can get those back to us I mean as you know we're already tonight we started one of them the Adu bylaw addressed and one of ours main ones so we will definitely get those too Dave's a member he's he's supporting you and he'll probably be your leas on going forward but I will help through this difficult process here because I love to generate work of the data so love from they're pretty they're spelled correctly it's wonderful okay all right that sounds great thank you very much as uh planning board members now know through my distributed email I also have an action L we have to prioritize um I'll share that with the members at least my storing ume so that we don't waste time here if you have any uh concerns with how I've ranked them discuss okay excellent I talked about the annual report for what brief time we were going do we have a decision to look at for shaper Farms Country Club Earth excavation or no I for two reasons but I'm gonna jump back for one quick second on the annual report okay uh plan board members would prefer I'll put um my thoughts into an email i' rather program if you element of the content here it's not sophisticated by I do want to make sure has an opportunity uh to contribute in review uh this is moving ahead swiftly we do look for it early on uh in the year as takes a good amount of time to assemble it I'll uh I'll just put my uh thoughts and an edit in you know for members okay I'm sorry the question about the decision for Shaker I'd like to defer that activity until after is appointed to a that makes fabulous sense that are there any planning board member or staff member comments I don't know if it really counts but starting off on the right foot here I don't know who's explicit is the intent to get our rankings back on these master plan actions by next meeting just in a time frame I think that we should aim to get our own individual rankings over to John so that he can Bo them to Norm before the end of next week I would like for Mr Cher to be able to compile those to us and get them to us by the next meeting I don't think any of the information is new to us and I think we'll find it pretty easy to see which ones are going to be a heavy lift and ones that we are certainly going to be tackling soon when we have our bylaws updated that sounds good to everybody yes any other comments all right then we we need a new honorary oh my goodness do I hear a motion to close the heing so moved everybody say hi hi night everybody