Good afternoon everybody. This is the select board meeting for September 8th, 2025. It is 6 pm. We're in the land use hearing room in person and via remote hybrid format. This meeting is being recorded. If anyone else is recording,
please advise Russ Anderson. And let's go around the table with attendance, please. Nicole Parker, CEO, Diane Gale, Doug Mglin, Ross Anderson, and then we'll go into the pledge of allegiance.
Deep banish here. Would you start to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. Thank you.
All right. Then public comment. Is there anyone in the room that would like to address the board with anything not on the agenda? None. Anyone online? See none. Then we will go right into new business.
U. We're going to continue the dog hearing that we had last week. Yeah. Uh, all right. Okay. State your name again. Liz Bennett, animal control officer, town of South.
And I assume you will still be under oath. Yes. To tell the truth. Okay. So, these are I'm not sure if we had gotten those. These are a listing of bylaws
and such that had been issued. Yes. Um before we do pictures, um I figured what I would do is read my uh recommendations and then if anybody had any questions about the pictures, the
descriptions thereof, we could address them at that point. Um, this hearing is not about the Merson's or any other neighbor having issue with the Matsux. This hearing is about the Matsux dog Zara being allowed to roam and harass.
Period. This hearing is about the Matsuk family refusing to take responsibility for their actions of their dog. The Matsuk family has attempted to shift blame to every neighbor who has complained, even going so far as to demand to see footage from a camera. The
excuses that I've heard from the Matsuk family regarding the dog's behavior highlight their refusal to accept the responsibility. It is not the responsibility I'm sorry. It is the responsibility of every dog owner to contain their dog so that it does not pose a threat to
others. Period. It is not up to the neighbors to show footage on camera. If the Matik family wants to show what their dog was doing, they need to get a camera system. Period. The neighbors are not babysitters and therefore is not their responsibility to prove the dog's
actions. It is with this in mind that I come up into this meeting with the following suggestions to be decided upon by the select board. First, fencing is to be placed around the backyard from the side of the house to the back where the little house is across the back to
where the pool fences. Said fencing is to be a minimum of 6t tall being chain link in structure. Number two, the deck rails on both the left and right rear of the house are to have fencing added so as to increase the height so that Zara cannot jump over. The height of this
shall be a minimum of 6 foot from the ground upward and be attached to the railing of the deck on both sides. Zara is number three. Zara is not allowed in the front yard, not on a leash, not on a tie out. Not in the front yard.
Four, all entrances and exits of Five Coyote Glenn are to be monitored so the doors to the outside of the home are not left open either by persons at the home or by placing objects such as a hose to keep the door open. That's also pinpointed in the in the pictures.
Number five, door handles are currently levers versus door knobs. It is strongly suggested that the levers be switched over to knobs as the levers are easily manipulated and can result in Zara letting herself out. And number six, the maths are to pay the
outstanding fines that have been imposed upon them, totaling $900 at this time. Should it be found that any of the above conditions are violated, the town of Southwork reserves a right to take possession of Zara until such time as compliance is met with number five about
the door handles being an option and not a requirement. The level of maturity that I've seen with the Matic family is a bit surprising considering they are all adults and hence should act accordingly. The tit fortat arguments and excuses I have heard from them only underscore this thought. The fact that
they have not yet been sued for the actions of the dog is also surprising and I do suggest that they start taking this matter seriously as to avoid such a suit. Now on the pictures does anyone have any questions?
We group them. If I may, on your six items, your deck rail height, you mean six feet from the floor of the deck. Ground because the floor of the deck was 5 foot three according to your height.
Yeah. If we include that up to six feet that I think might well yeah I suppose the six foot from the from the fencing or from the the deck would do better because right now that railing is what about 3 feet high
maybe roughly. So if we doubled that into a sixoot height that might actually work better. I see what you were saying. Okay. All right. So, now as the pictures go, does anybody have questions about the different areas that we've taken
into consideration here? Um, it should be noted that in the area of the front door when Diane and I were there talking to Vera and her daughter, um, it was an interesting revelation, I
guess, that we were talking to them and the front door was wide open. Nobody even blinked an eye that the front door was wide open. And I thought, well, the dog could come trumping out at any particular moment. Yes, the dog was contained at that point in time. But it
didn't seem like it was an issue to just leave the door open. The front door, the front door while we were in the driveway and right halfway down to the road. This is where the suggestion comes in that Zara is not allowed on the front door. She's not allowed in the front
yard because what happens is if they do not watch the fact that she can get out. Um this is where a lot of the confrontations happen with people happening to be walking by. Um Zara will
come out at them. Therefore, if we eliminate the fact that she's in the front yard, we eliminate a lot of those issues. Um, one of the pictures area three
was the door was a jar with a hose under the doorway. You can see the the the under this door there's a hose leading in and the hor the door the door is a jar. Uh, with this type of handle
on the inside, you notice it's a lever. the dog can pull that open very easily. So, I think a lot of the issues are man-made. Um, just on area three, we also asked daughter to just
push on the door and it opened. It opened right away without if the door open. This has the lever on, right? So, if anybody, like I said, if anybody had any questions about these, this is
just to condense timewise so we don't end up with another two-hour session with this. Um, please let me know. The the reason Did you have a photo of that backyard that was wide open into that wooded area? Yes, the backyard is completely Hang on.
Let me see. That would be down at the end. Back area is completely open. So, the fencing that you see is basically around the pool and to the to the house. Yeah. If you look at this picture, hi Diane. Um, you'll notice here that there
are cement blocks that come up to a very short making it a very short distance between coming over. Now, in the incident that we had, this last particular incident, um I know they swear that the dog didn't
jump over the fence in the back. with the timing on how fast the victim came out from the backyard, went into the driveway to go into the house between that time and the
time that she saw and heard the dog barking to the time where she turned and now the dog is at her. There is no way that that dog could have gone around the entire house between the barking and now the dog is right there. There's no way.
There's no way. And I get it. They don't really feel that the dog would have done this. And the owner was not home at that time. He was Yeah, he was not home. Um, we're talking Arthur.
Uh, anybody? Were any of them at home? I forgot when this happened on that day. On that day, I would have to look it back up. But um as you can tell with Diane's height, shortness. Shortness. I'm almost with you, so don't even go
there. Um the dog could very easily get over that fence. And we took a picture of the dog. Which fence is this? This is the deck. So this is the fence between the two houses. And it's interesting to note that it has been pulled out. If you'll notice that
from the dog side has been pulled out from the Matsuk side. No idea if that was from the dog or not. Right. Just an observation, but that was an observation that you know um that had been pulled away. Hang on. I can check that last report to see
it. So, is this Spence Matsuk or is this Spence? The black is the black chain link is Mer. That's at number seven. Matuk is the Hang on.
Massuk's fence is then area two. Picture this. If you could see that, that's the fence that that goes to the to way back beyond the
pool. Right. This is where the gate is. Okay. And you have to lift that lever up in order to open that door. So either somebody left that door open a jar or you know the dog went over the um
if you look at Doug's view here. Oh, go down a moment through here. So the fence goes all the way around the pool. The the block, right? They have this. There's this other shed out here. This has absolutely no fencing
whatsoever. No fencing whatsoever. If the dog is out here, can easily go anywhere. And this is why I suggest that we put a fence in. This is the neighbor's fence. Goes around. Must come across the back, right? I don't fence. I don't know if there's one in the back here. There's a vinyl fence. If you're looking
on If you're looking at the house, you're standing looking at in the at the house. There's a house on the right hand side that has a white vinyl fence. Yeah. You have the Mens with the black mesh fence and then you have Matsuck in the
middle who has pretty much half the yard cut with a fence. But when the dog was across the street or down the corner could easily have gone right anywhere, which was why she was suggesting No. Um Arena
Korabov um drove up the main entrance and grabbed um O'Neal and got O'Neal into the car and then Veratza came home, put this dog inside and then left. So no one
was home from what I can see that you know no one was home during the um incident at that point. Okay. So anymore
here, I'll give you my recommendations if you want. Sure. Any more questions about the pictures? I didn't print all of the pictures in the area. Um I printed what I felt were
access points that um could be breached. by the dog or we don't believe the dog was getting out of the fence because of you have pictures of the locks there. The locks are the kind we actually wanted FAL to get on one side and the other one is
actually a key lock and you would actually have to lift. Yeah. Now whether again whether it was left a jar, we don't know. For this particular incident, we don't know. But I do feel
strongly that the dog probably jumped over that area off the deck. But it doesn't matter. It still doesn't matter. There's a thousand different ways that this dog could have gotten out of the house or across the street or
over to the neighbors or however, but the bottom line is it's a human error. Um and the human owner is not taking responsibility and needs to be advised to take responsibility.
It comes down to that. It's not a no. It's not a a um deficit in any of this stuff. It's all fixable. You did not suggest the electric fence. Why not?
I'm not a huge lover of electric fences anyway. Um, they tend to fail if you aren't right on top of it. I don't, like I said, I'm not
I'm not a huge fan of electric fence. I honestly, yes, if you want to do that, that's that's okay as well. Um I know we suggested that with or Fijel had that we had made sure that she had that as well but um I mean that's always something
that we put in the mix that they are to install the electric fencing. Okay. But with two dogs I'm not sure. Yeah. Other questions? Um, I have one. Sure.
On the page you handed out was a list of summones and Yeah. Some of these were adjudicated, right? Um, so the one, two, the ones with COVID next to them,
they were um Yeah. forgiven. Yeah. Because of the COVID. Got it. And then the next two down are written warnings. And then the next two down, the 75 and the 200. um we went to court with those and he was found guilty and required to pay at that point.
So everything from the 400, 200, 250 and 550 from that point on these were not paid. So from 10 2023 all the way through the current they have not been paid.
Understood. My and my question is so if they've been adjudicated like even the one from July of this year maybe hasn't gone to court yet if they so choose that. So let's leave those two weeks they have two weeks on the bylaw violation you have two weeks to um
appeal or pay and if it's not paid in two weeks hang on let me tell you I'll read it to you. Um, you may elect to pay the above fine either by appearing in person between 8:30 and 4:30 Monday through Friday, da
da da, um, to the town clerk or by mailing a check or a money order. If you desire to contest this matter, oh, I'm sorry, within 21 days. You have to pay um, within 21 days of the date of the notice. If you desire to contest
this matter in a noncriminal proceeding, you may do so by making a written request enclosing a copy of the citation within 21 days of the date of the notice to the clerk magistrate Westfield District Court. So, it's 21-day thing. You don't pay it within 21 days, you
don't appeal it within 21 days, we can say it goes to court. It already went to court. Already went to court. I don't know. I don't want we have to request from to get them to pay there. He went to court. He was found guilty of this. Oh, no. That one appealed.
No, let's just leave that. Let's just go with the ones that Okay. So, back from July of 2023. So, we'll all agree that that's two years ago. Let me just finish the thought. Yeah. They were found guilty in court. Whether he if if they're paid or unpaid, I don't know. I'm Yeah. Is are they paid or unpaid?
No, these are unpaid. So um 72023 and 82023 he went to court and he was found guilty. He had to pay that. And were they paid? At court he had to pay before he could leave. Anything after that was never paid, never addressed, never sent to court. I
don't know. I can ask Chief Banish if they automatically go to court or we have to request. You would have to request something. Okay. All right. And at that period of time we had um um I don't know what happened at that
point. So there was never so I went to court was found guilty of it was paid then there was other violations after that. Did those were was there ever a criminal criminal complaint filed after that? So after the ones for court
so not stop there. So why didn't we file a criminal complaint after they isn't that our jurisdiction? We have to go. So the courts out of here, right? We have to request it. We I personally did not. I don't know if our
court liaison did or if the town clerk would, but we I did not personally. So if if we're staircasing the the violation, right, it went to court. Now we're back here. We're going backwards, right? It should.
We're not talking about those. So no, it's a no violation. He contested the two in and so we went to court in October 31st, 2023. He was found guilty though. So that stops. Everything stops right there. So now we have new stuff that came up
in 2023 that were not contested $900 worth saying, but those also haven't gone to court. So the my question is what I want and you rais a good point. One, these should be in court already. If they are not, they should just go. Right. Right. If they haven't been paid,
right? Um or and if if they want a trial on this issue to see if they're guilty or not guilty, let's go to court. Let's get those resolved. But my other follow on question to that is if these are and I guess this becomes an if. If if these are adjudicated and the
the owner is found guilty, why do we allow someone to license a dog when they owe us money? Well, that's a whole different I have no idea. I agree with you. Register your car or register your car or
I was going to bring up with I agree with you, Miss. I agree. I mean, maybe this is something to take a note from a town bylaw perspective. We don't let Right. certain businesses can't renew their license if they didn't pay a fine. They
can't get their whatever certificate to operate their business. Why why do we let this I don't know, you know, and I you know, there's I'm certain there's always going to be some extenduating circumstance and there needs to be a a relief valve to it, but it seems kind of crazy to
if if this we add other fines onto real estate taxes, but we don't with these. So, we should probably and I carry that as a separate discussion, but it was kind of a Yes. Right. that would be this jumped out to me when I was looking at this tonight saying between this and some other folks that
have not um that would be actually good and then the you know obviously the other action is is this one goes back I don't even know what the what the process is between yourself the chief and the town clerk is send these to court if if because these aren't the
subject of the hearing here these are evidence towards that but the actual correct reason we're here is for for other reasons right maybe one of these tickets were doesn't matter as a basis from the event, but send them to court. Right. I agree. Um and and again, this
is not about uh licensing the dogs or or anything else. Um they admitted that the dog was running around the in this case that this last case um they've admitted prior prior to this that the dog gets out.
Okay, the dog gets out. Now you have a fine. Pay the fine. But you know, so far that has really not happened. Right. Do we really think that the dog is opening the door via the lever on the door? Honestly, I
German chops are smart dogs. It's a possibility. Is it a probability? It's a possibility. It's a possibility. It is a possibility. Um, all you have to do is push it down, pull it. I've had a bear come out and open my shed
which has this but there's and the reason I ask is cuz and I don't know if it's the case in this particular instance whether it's for convenience or aesthetics but you start to run into conflict with other rules and other amenities of a
home for people that may have trouble turning a doorork knobact and that's why you have the lever in the first place. So I don't want to I don't want to mess that up if that requirement and or put someone at odds with that. Nope. I understand that they did voluntarily. They changed some
of their locks. They said they were right and they changed them to um knob. Yeah. The front door is now a knob. And I I don't know that the dog is opening the doors so much as
I I feel like perhaps the family Yes. is prone to leaving doors open. Yes. That seemed to be more the norm. um as we were interviewing um and then the dog may go out the front
door, may go right over those short deck railings, particularly the ones with the with the cinder blocks, right? So, what are what are the so the changing the the uh levers to
knobs? That's a that's a suggestion. suggest going to be an issue. The fence height at the deck D has the um Yeah, go ahead. See what else I got. Foot. Yeah. And then
surrounding the back garden with I think I think you can't and and I think you had something in there about the dog not being permitted in the front. Period. Period. Yep. Well, I think you have to be careful with that. And I see they're taking them to the vet or they're taking I get it
out of the building. Dog has to be leashed at all times. South leash. Okay, fine. Yep. Unless they fence the front yard as well. Well, they may there might be all kinds of things with that too in that subdivision because that's not 35 years old. And I think that there's covenants at that subdivision that they can't do
that. You can't bring a fence in front of your house. I'm pretty sure that's one of them that has that. So, okay. I don't know. No, I get it. I don't know for that one in particular on Coyote Glenn, but I've seen those covenants. Okay. I don't know. Every recent subdivision in the last 35
years have that. Not that anybody pays any mind to them, but they're there. Okay. Your neighbor has to sue you. The town doesn't get involved in it, but it's okay. That's why they have them. Okay. I can see it. We certainly can't monitor the doors and
make sure they're not left open. So, I don't know how that would happen. I don't know. I think just advising these the the residents that they really do need to um take this matter more seriously than blaming everyone else for
this happening. Um, and I directly asked Vera if she felt truly that if she knew a dog was not a happy dog, would she walk up to a fence and open the fence? And she said no.
And she said she doesn't have proof that this is what happened, that they came in and opened the fence, opened the gate. though. Um I said then you cannot say that you think this is going on if you don't really have courage.
So I do agree that it's it's the doors opening are human errors. The two little girls came out and left the door open while we were there. Did they? Yes. When they came out to show the dress. Yes. Oh yeah. They they came running out. Left the
door open. Oh. In the back. Oh okay. So to to that's what I'm saying. I that's my feeling is what's happening and the dog is then going over those short rails. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I agree with you. Um
at the end of our interview, the two little girls that were there came running out. They wanted to show us their dress. They had this really pretty one of the girls had a pretty dress and they had purple Crocs and stuff like that. So they Well, they really wanted to show the police officer not
the dog. And then of course they did leave the back door wide open. So yeah. Any other questions for Liz on the dog? No. The conditions.
I My concern is we're getting a little bit in the weeds here and we're telling them to change doorork knobs. And now I agree. Let me talk. Everything we asked them to do, we could then face liability should something else happen. Yes.
And we were going to tell them a town suggestion to go put in a fence or in their backyard and they leave the front door open. Something happens are we now liable because they're following what we told them to do. I think globally it's their responsibility to keep their dog under
control. Whether they use an electric fence or kennel, whatever they use, it's their job. We're not, we shouldn't be dictating how you fix the problems. Our job is to tell you to fix the problem or you're going to lose your dog and you're going to go to court. So to me that it's pretty simple that we shouldn't be
getting in the weeds here telling them how to do things. I agree with you in that yes in normal circumstance um they asked us how how do we think their dogs are getting out? Okay, fine. This is how we think. We've heard everything from aliens to you know people coming in that house.
So, exactly. Wipe all that off. You can't. There's no credibility, right? So, all we can tell you is we're starting over. Fix your problem or the dog's going to we're going to go to court. You're going to end up losing your dog if you don't fix your problem. And that could be as simple as telling your kids to shut the door. So,
it could be. I mean, and way too involved in it. And that's just my personal thing. I wish we didn't have to dictate somebody to be responsible. I wish we didn't have to get to the point.
We have to dictate that it's the dog. The dog is a danger though, right? We have an fine. The dog was fine when Liz and I were there. As soon as the police officer came around the corner, he got a little different. He went nuts.
Well, he didn't go nuts. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. They could So Ver was telling us she can control this dog. She could not control that dog. when the when he made the dog laws on their land and protecting their land, they have a right to bark and growl.
I'm just saying the dog the dog was doable when it was just the two of us. When the officer came around the corner, the dog turned a different color. And the what we're talking about is the fact that they're not taking responsibility to control their dog and
the dog is ending up on other people's property threatening them. But this this is where we tell them you got to find a way to make them take responsibility and make it safe. If you can get them to do that, that would be that's where the criminal complaints come. That's where court comes and that's where you lose your dog.
That would be I mean they have to understand that. But if we haven't taken them to court numerous times and we haven't let the court system determine that, then we did take him to court to that one or he took us to court that one time, right? And the judge did tell him, you really need to stop this. This is
ridiculous. So then you go back to that judge. Yeah. And who did I guess? And those were dog at large. Yep. Threatening dog at large to people. Yep. Or other dogs. Who was found guilty of having a dog at large?
Timothy. That's when he claimed ownership. So who owns the dog now? And were any of those tickets issued to the person that this dog is registered to today? Yes. Now the owner is Arthur. Right. But again, it changes. But Vera said it's my dog when we were
there. And Vera said it was her dog. Um, honestly, it's a family dog, so I would say the owner of the household should be the one responsible. I can't say to Arthur, you have to put a fence up because Arthur doesn't own the
home. I can say to Timothy, you have to put fence up because he owns the home. But again, I I agree with Mr. Anderson. We've we've been down this road a couple times. We've had the last one,
the young lady over there showed a bit a bit of disdain about the whole process and we had some specific thoughts around what was happening there because it was obvious what was happening there and well, we haven't seen or heard from them
since then. I and I think getting back to the purpose of this hearing is is we need to determine whether Zara is a dangerous dog, right? That's a that's actually a legal finding that we would find which has ramifications to
the owner and their insurance carrier and everything else andor if we have to if we can impose certain common sense uh conditions on on an obeyance of that
or we find the dog dangerous and then we all move on and they have to deal with that. Correct. Um, you know, from my reading, certainly not an expert, but you know, my reading is you won't you you will just won't get homeowners insurance again ever. You have a dangerous dog living in your house. So,
it's it's damning for the animal who's been failed by their multitude of owners and caretakers. Agreed. My take on it is is that one, these obviously have to go to court and get resolved, right? If the if the owner or whoever is claiming ownership of the dog
isn't willing to step up and claim for the responsibility for a dog that they claim that they own, well, that's a problem because I'm can't trust anything we say or ask of them to do, right? That they'll follow. They won't even follow uh where we are so far. My only
common sense thought on this is that that dog should not be outside the house outside of a fenced area, not on a lead. Period. Period. Right. Agreed. I don't care if he sits at your feet while you're chipping golf balls or whatever. The dogs obviously
showed a propensity to be around and out and about off of his property, supervised or unsupervised. So, that would be my only take on this. And then we come back in I don't know if it's 90 days or 60 days or 120 days to make a
you know to to either to close this out and either find the dog dangerous or not. And like I said last time, and it's just worth repeating, every single one of these, it's never the fault of the dog. The dog is the dog. It's the owner. And, you know, the owner has failed the
animal. And the owner has also failed their neighbors and their neighborhood. Um, so, and that's why we're here. And so my my my thought that's my thought on it before, you know, I'm sure you're going to take additional testimony from anyone
who wants to give it before we close this hearing. But I, you know, restrain the dog, right? Do what you need to do to to to keep the dog on your premise when he's not being on a lead in your, you know, and you're holding the lead because we're going to find that dog
dangerous and then you're in a whole different circle of of trouble. And the dog is, too. I agree and unfortunately a lot of mud has been slumped to um I think divert
the actual fact which is is I mean you know we we sit at these you know you someone's in court or someone's in a hearing like this you know you have to take what they say at face value and whether you choose to believe it or not that's up to each of us to make our own opinion whether the testimony given was
believable or frankly incredulous and make you know make your decision based on you know on that and based on what I heard you know we and you know we're not done here but so far what I've heard the fact is the dog was roaming around doesn't matter what anybody else said there's tickets here and we can go to
court and get those adjudicated guilty not guilty what have you to prove the fact that the dog wasn't on the property where he was supposed to be right that's it so whether it was aliens or people coming in the house or whatever else. It's irrelevant, right? The dog was not
where he was supposed where he he was supposed to be and why we're here. Great. Anything else for Liz? No. No. Is there anything from anyone who wants to speak? Yeah.
In defense of the dog there. Oh, one's in the garage. for a while doesn't have access still is still sworn through it. Um your name for the record again and you remain under oath.
Yes. So which door is open? The number one? Nope. Okay. So which door? You're saying the front door? You know, most people go and think that's the door. The one that's to the garage. Number three area number.
Okay. So that is the garage door. The dog doesn't roam this. If you see the hose is under here and the dog was or the door was easily open. So the dog can enter the garage. Hang on. Okay. So this is the entrance to
the house from the garage. So the potential is if someone left this open. This is not secured. If someone left this door open, this is why we went there. If someone lock right there. So that's the code to
open. If someone if someone left this door open, this dog could get out this can't even reach. So it's not if someone if someone left the front door open, the dog can get there, too. It's like that's
the dog can't get to the garage is what I'm saying. So that's why the hose is under there because the dog doesn't go in the garage. That door is electronic. You need a code to go and open it. So they're going to go and say that open the door. Can a person open that door? You need you need your fingerprints.
Can a person open that door? Yes. Obviously. Can a person leave that door open by accident? Okay. Okay. Okay. Then they would have to go through two doors. So you can argue the dog go through to three doors. It's not safe.
So you can argue that the front door that's the only line of defense and it can go like no one's going to leave that door open. It's locked. We have it locked. So, and then you're talking about my nieces opening the back door that's to the backyard that's fenced in. Correct. And that
So, and you guys failed to mention that. You guys just say she leaves the door open. You guys go and talk about that one. And you guys failed to mention that that's a protected area. It's a door to the back. Which one? That went to this area. That back door. Okay. Yes. This area
where the dog can very easily dump this. The dog can jump out. And on the other side, this is the concern. This is the observation. And you guys always love to dismiss the
neighbor being in the house when there's a police record of it. The neighbor on record here in the video. I'm talking. You guys dismiss it. You guys say aliens. You guys go make a mockery of it. The neighbor on record here said she was in the house. And if she was in the
house, it was probably to drop off mail. As a prudent person, if you know you're arguing with your neighbors and you're not on good terms, are you walking into the house to drop off mayor mail? I think any normal person was going to go and drop it off in the mailbox. On record, she's admitted to walking into
the house and she states she doesn't know why she was in there. Probably to drop off mail. So, what do you mean? If I walked back to my neighbor's house, that would why I was in their house. I wouldn't question. That doesn't answer how the dog gets out, though. Okay. Well, that's one of our complaints
that keeps getting dismissed. That back door also leads to this, which is even shorter than this one. The dog could come up on me. That was just placed right there
when they were cleaning up. So, she just placed that. We don't know that. Okay. Well, I could go and remove that. The dog can jump right down. The dog can jump over a 4ft rain. The dog can't jump high. The dog's 90 lbs. Like, the dog can't jump over a
ramp. Every time I'm outside, the dog's crying because he wants to go and like play with me. The dogs never jumped over that. her dogs jump over her fence. That's what she was saying. I'm just saying I've never seen my dog be able to jump
that high and the dog basically cannot jump that high. So, okay, let me just restate something. You have never seen the dog escape its enclosure
when you're not home because it happens when you're not home. None of us know how that dog is getting out. What is your solution? What's my solution is we did put the electronic locks on. You guys, she's mentioned that like the owners failed to
take responsibility, failed to make any changes. We have we put the the knobs on the doors where she can get outside. The only levers that there are are to the backyard where it's gated.
So the doors where she can't go and go outside into the neighborhood, those have knobs or an electronic lock on it. There's no levers there. The gate outside you, a dog cannot open that. She's going to go and raise the probability
that only turns all the way up and you have to push and then you have to go and lift it physically lift it to go and open it as she went and showed them. to to go and escape outside. Those doors have knobs on them. So, I'm willing to
go and work. I'm willing to look at suggestions, but and we have been we have put the knobs on. We have changed the doors to prevent the dogs from escaping. We installed the cameras to prevent the dogs from escaping. So, we know when did you change those knobs?
Um, maybe two years or three. No, maybe like two years ago. So when it was an issue, you know, we went and changed it. Okay. Interesting. But she still got out in July. Okay. So yes, the one incident in July.
Um but prior to that, there hasn't been an issue in two years. So um and like I said, since the Ring camera since the Ring camera was installed, there's been one issue in the last two years. And then there was like 10 issues in like a six month span
or how long how long have your your nieces lived there? Why does that matter? Cuz I just asked you a question. How long have they been there? And I may have a connection connection. Denie's Denise has moved in. November.
No, December. December. December. This past year. Yes. Okay. All right. I was just thinking if because you're going to go and say if they're opening up the doors in that um meantime then No. Um I mean they're they Yep. and they're
building a house and they're moving out and No, I get it. I get it. But I just wondered if you know there might be a connection. So do you have any other remedies that you are going to try?
So, you know, I the doors are locked at I don't know. I don't know like any other way the dog can get out. Um to prevent the dog from getting out. The dog doesn't go and we don't have it
hanging out outside the fence area unless I'm there and present and, you know, being with her all the time. So, you know, I don't have her just going and hanging out in the backyard that's open right there and not fenced in. So, she's going outside and I'm home and I'm in the kitchen or something like I have
the dog hanging out in the pool area and I'm not supervised cuz it's gated. Mhm. Um, so the dog doesn't go and escape there. Um, my only thing is saying the dog can't be in the front yard. I take the dog on walks, you know, all the time. Do you have it on leash
when I take the dog on a walk? Yes. Yes. Okay. Just making sure um ask if there's anything else in the close of the hearing and then figure out. Yeah. Okay. Yep. All right. So, no other
thoughts from you on further containment of the dog? I mean, I think the only thing to go and prevent the dog from going in is the doors are locked. There's knobs and I think the fence is gated and I don't think the dog is able to hop over. So besides that, I don't think there's any
changes that um I know off the top of my head that to prevent the dog from escaping. I think, you know, it's pretty secure. Okay. And these are these are locked. Um there's the keys there. Um
it's right here. That's not even Yeah, it's happening how I thought in that condition. If anything, so you're going to go and say my dog did that? No, we didn't know that questioning. Okay. I wasn't sure if that's what you were alluding to.
Do you know how that happened? It's pulled out towards your property. I didn't know if you knew how the bare fence turned into that. Um, and then I don't think the dog is able to jump over this and down to the
ground. So I mean I guess the only recommendation is if you know you think the dog jump that to go and increase the height but besides that I can't think of any. That is one recommendation. Okay. So that's the only one where I
would go and argue you know would you know which I would change but these the dog doesn't have access to get into the garage. So saying the front door is open it was the garage door that the dog doesn't go into or doesn't have access to.
control when we were talking about the front door being open. We were talking about the main entrance to the house while we were outside. Um, open was not this door. No, while you
while you and I were talking, you came out. That door was left open while we were out there. As the dogs were in the laundry room, walked up. Well, at that particular time, perhaps. So, perhaps. So, okay.
All right. So, perhaps willing to increase the height of those side deck rails. Am I able to get a copy of the recommendations and um the list that she had? Sure. And review those. Sure.
Yep. Okay. I'd like to write. Sure. If we can provide that. Otherwise, you can go recommendation. Provide the If it's a re should provide a recommendation. Exactly. Right.
Right. Or I didn't know if it was um like the dog can't be in the front yard. But I didn't know if that was a recommendation. We decided that we we have not come to that. I just gave them a list of my thoughts for possibilities to try to resolve the situation. They have to now take it
under advisement. We'll check with the attorneys and stuff like that to see if we can say, "Hey, this is what you have to do." The fact that you are willing to increase the fencing on the side by the deck, that's fabulous. Yeah, that's fabulous. If we can if that works
and that's the only that be fabulous. So, I I guess that's the only thing that, you know, I feel like you can argue if someone feels like the dog can jump over that. Besides that, I think everything's pretty secure. I still don't think at all the dog could jump over, but to go and, you know, do that
just in case. Just in case. Okay. What happens if it did? Okay. You know, the fact that she heard the dog barking, turned around, and now the dog is on her at her. That's pretty fast. That means the dog couldn't have gone around the house and gotten out that way. So the dog had to be like
right there. So that was my immediate thought was that yeah could have jumped over that that um deck. So if we increased the height on the deck on the fencing on the deck that would be fabulous. And if it you know if it stops the
problem perfect and we've solved it. You know if that's what we can if that's what you can do and that would solve it that's fabulous. But but the doors on the outsides are fine. It was just it was just an idea. This is
what I saw. This is how it could have happened. It wasn't a this is how it happened. It was this is how you know this is these are the observations that we made going around the house and seeing the doors and seeing this and seeing that. I know my German Shepherds could probably open I had a bear open my
latch that way. So I mean it's not out of the realm of possibilities that that could happen. Um whether I'm accusing anybody, no I'm not. I'm not. I'm just saying that we went around the house with the purpose of trying to find out what could have happened, what could be
a possibility. And these are the things that we found. So, it's not saying that this is what happened. Um like I said, the most likely situation was that the dog jumped the the deck just based on the quick, you know, the
the speed of the incident that happened. So, okay. So, done. Barring any other factual evidence, I think we're going to close the hearing and then we'll deliberate and
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. No, that's it was you brought this chair over so I don't know. Oh, was it on the chair? translated possibilities there.
All right. So motion to close the hearing. So move second. Rollout. Dang. I Doug Moin. Yes. Anderson. Yes. All right. Do you want to sit on this a week and think about the possibilities or do you want to
Thank you. We can check with council to see what their their thoughts are on all right imposing conditions or posing certain things on someone address this on the next agenda because we have to decide whether this rises to the level of a dangerous dog or
not. Yep. My only question on that is the one suggestion of if the dog is in the front on a leash, you do have a leash law. Can we just ensure ourselves on that that
for the time being the I don't think if not in a fenced area it's on the leash. I think that the um and I looked at this last week the it's if they're off their premise if you're on your property you don't have to leash your dog and certain dogs can
will stay on their own property no matter what. But it would, you know, we've I I liken some of these to almost an agreement with the the dog owner. You agree, you know, we're going to hold this in obeyance and if you agree to do this because that gives some shity to the
neighbors that they can enjoy their their own property and the neighborhood, right? And um I just didn't want to ignoring that it could be no 100%. I you know I you know usually the owner hears us when we talk about this kind of thing and they say
they you know they did they did have a tie out in the front yard. So sometimes one or the other dog is tied in the front yard. I don't know which one but they do have one problem
here to have a hand. Yeah I know you have a hand in the back but we did close the hearing. We did close the hearing. If it's factual evidence, can I They left, right? Yeah, they left. Yeah. Okay. All right. We did We did close the
hearing. So, okay. All right. And we'll come back to that next week. Then we have Southwick Fire Department Brian Schneider visitation. Sir,
thank you for your patience. It was enjoyable. Dog hairrings are Brian Schneider kind of one. Very kind. Good. Do I say I How's this work? No. Have a seat. Okay. I wrote a letter so I wouldn't
forget. Um, I did hear before you, not by myself, but with 68 signatures from employees of the town that are asking for this select board to hold a special town meeting this fall, so that we may have the opportunity to adjust the town's health
insurance contributions. According to Mass General Law, chapter 32, subsection 7A states um that's what the the employees responsible for paying 50% of the insurance premium and the government contributes the other 50%
which be us versus the town. Uh this payment to the treasural unit. If you if a municipality accepts section 7A, it is allowed to contribute more than 50% of the premium. This rate is subject to collective bargaining requirements and
the town meeting must approve the necessary appropriations to cover the cost which is what brings me here today. U right now we are in the first section where the town is 50% and the employees 50%. We're looking to move that uh out
of the 50% range um with this special town meeting. As of right now the town and employees share a 50/50 contribution of health insurance which is the state minimum. The employees of our town would like the opportunity to negotiate this coverage to make it more desirable place of
employment for both new hires and existing employees. Our surrounding communities are substantially higher in coverages and we are looking to be more competitive. It's no secret we've lost quite a few employees in the last year in part due to the unaffordable health insurance
that the employees required to pay. At this time, we have job openings for department heads, supervisors along with many skilled employees and other potential employees. We have lost to other towns because of the cost of our health insurance. Our town has numerous employees under
the age of 26, which are still covered by usually family insurance. Once they turn 26, they will be required to carry their own health insurance. And to be quite frank, our coverage now is borderline unaffordable. and our neighboring towns have a much better contribution ratio, making employment
there very tempting to our younger employees and future prospects. I went around and um typed up a petition with help of several people. This isn't just an I thing. This is very much a we thing. Do you want me to read the petition statement?
All right, I made you guys copy. Okay. Uh we the underside employees of the town of South respectfully request the scheduling of a special fall town meeting to address a matter of urgent concern. The recent and significant increase in health insurance costs from
July 1st to September 1st. The health insurance premiums have risen from approximately 40% placing a substantial financial burden on our town employees. Currently, the town contributes 50% toward health insurance as required by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. However,
this contribution is no longer sufficient to maintain competitive and sustainable benefits for our workforce. We're formally seeking an increase in the town's contribution towards employees health insurance, currently 50/50 cost, has contributed a growth
growing trend of employee attrition with numerous staff members leaving Southwick for comparable positions in neighboring municipalities. This issue directly impacts town's ability to recruit and retain qualified personnel, maintain continuity of service, and uphold the standards of
public service our residents deserve. We urge the town to take immediate action to review and revise the contribution policy in order to preserve the integrity and stability of our workforce. And what I have is three pages of just employee signatures requesting from the
select board to hold a special town meeting. Um it's a total of 60 69 employees. So the reason I didn't do this in public comment is so we could have a discussion or make a is that
that's what I have for now. Okay. We're just making sure you were didn't want to cut you off. Oh, no. Thank you. Um, the end. No, there isn't a darn thing you said there that um I think anyone at this table disagrees with. We have certainly
recognized the issues with insurance as they have been growing more and more out of anyone's control. You want to talk briefly about what you what you are? Yeah. So, you know, one of the
selectman's goals, select board goals obviously was to look into it and we have been for many months. Um, you know, the trust that we're in also had their own issues. So, you know, also out of our control. Um, but we are actively actively looking at either other
insurers, you know, other plans. We are, you know, we are in the throws of it, in the midst of it. It takes time. It takes time to get documentation back and forth. Naen is working very hard with other agents. Um so you know we are looking at what we
can do but yes the 50% contribution is will always be an issue um no matter where we go. So maybe we're not going to find something that's that that's as much as the trust is um but the
contribution is is uh where we need to where we need regardless of what the premiums are. Um but however we you know we need to be strategic in going to the special town meeting um and not just throwing it out there. We really need to get some facts.
We need to educate our residents on really why they need why why why we need qualified personnel out there protecting our entire town. So, um, you know, nobody needs to convince us of this, but
I think we need to convince the town of this because it's been to one town meeting once where it failed. So, uh, you know, I don't know if it was the, you know, I don't I don't know what what the deal was and when it was and how it failed and what how it was brought up, but I think that we just need to be very
methodical and um, you know, diligent in making making the town's people understand that we are losing good people. We are losing really qualified people because we are not paying more than 50%. So, yeah, we have to bring it
to a town meeting. I suggested that Brian come to you instead of getting signatures to force a town meeting that you know to come to the select board and kind of you know relay this request as a request is not just here you need to have one now um because
I don't think that it's I don't think that anybody is in opposition of this except maybe the people that are voting correct and it comes out of their pockets you know that our benefits come out of their pockets so you know I think that we just need to work really hard at
educating them and relaying the message on how important it is you know when you get a job to have good benefits and you know at least adequate and 50% is is absolutely the lowest and I don't know any other town that you know is there so
um you know and then and then the other side is finding the funding right that's the most important part is what I'm trying to do is find that funding that is going to allow us to pay more than 50% because There are towns right now that are looking at an override or
massive layoffs. One town not far from us across the river is going to lose half their fire department if they don't pass this override because of their health insurance. Went up $3 million in two years. So, we're not there. Let's be very thankful for that. And I don't want to go there, right? We don't want to put ourselves there. So, we have to make
sure that we can afford it as well or I have to find the funding somehow. If you find it from you got to take it from somewhere. So, you know that there's there's multiple facets to this and that's the time that we're talking about
that leeway of time to put all that together. We're we're looking at markets other than government insurance. We're looking at the open market to reduce the premium as well as being able to increase the contribution.
And it's something you can't really rush and just get a vote if we don't have those elements to present. Even with that, the way our policies work, we couldn't do anything until July 1st. It's saying we waved the magic wand, the
town meeting voted and then so there is no per the special town meeting is the right executive body but I think it's our existing policy is till July. It's till July. Oh, right. But I also think it's a third. A third.
A third. Right. So, you've got you got to go to town meeting to get that approval. You need to negotiate. Well, that too, but okay. Third, a third, a third, and a third. A third,
four thirds. Again, New Jersey me. But um you have to put together an insurance plan so that you can then plug it into your budget and fund it at the new whatever those rates are whatever the split works out to be.
Um so that's and then you got to put it into a successor agreement with any bar you know bargaining unit and you need to to put that in. So, but I what I think what to what Nicole and you are trying to say is if you put together the whole
package, it makes a more compelling case at town meeting. I was going to say that the other we're going to say if we are able to drive the cost side of this, right, which would enable us to do more on the
percentage side without that being a blowout number on the budget side. Well, now you've got something you can go to town meeting and say, "This is a compelling argument of how you do that." And there, you know, you and I have spoke I've spoken to probably half the people in this room over coffee or
whatever about insurance and you know, how you how you look at it and how you address it. And there's different ways to do it. Um, you know, by different types of plans, different types of deductibles, different types of this, all kinds of different ways to skin the cat. Um, and
I think you need to put all three or fourth thirds of that together to go to town meeting and get it done. If and I I do know I was several years ago now we did go in front of town meeting with just this question and it failed. I don't think it failed by a ton but it
still failed. The reason was they didn't put together the compelling argument of how you were going to how you were going to do this. How are you going to put an insurance plan together? How are you going to pay for this and how are you gonna, you know, how is this all going to work out? So, if you can present that
whole thing to the town's people at a special or the annual for that matter and say this is why we're doing this, this is why we have to do it and by the way, this is what it's going to cost. You have a compelling argument if we don't. Well, I think I agree with you. I think
that we're starting to see the repercussions of it right now. But staying the course all to a person on at this table, I don't think anyone believes staying the course is is tenable, right? We've seen the attrition. We've seen the the
trouble recruiting. We've seen other employees, you know, out interviewing for other jobs in other other communities. We don't want that. We want to keep the good employees that we have, right? And we got to find a way to make it work. then we also have to stay within the financial feasibility of what
we can afford to do. So part of that is driving the insurance side of it to try to get a plan or plans that are more amendable. And I'll tell you, you know, and I I know we've spoken informally about this and I've spoken to some of you guys informally as well. You know,
in different things, you may have a sliding scale. If you take this plan, well then the town's able to take this on. if you want to stay with this plan, well then it's going to be at the same percentage or a different percentage or what have you. But it all those numbers have to get baked in. So from a finance
side, you're able to put that argument together at town meeting. And that's harder to project and lay out than it is processing your payroll. You don't know my payroll. I know. Yes, I know.
But the town meeting is only to allow you to go above 50%. Yeah, correct. We're not talking numbers. We're just talking concept. Correct. And what I'm doing here today is just asking for that town meeting so we can enable the discussions to go forward.
This is step you want to do part 1/3. Your math. This is my our step one. What a print. This is getting the town to special town meeting so we can go into discussions and get that rolling with the unions and
everything around. But I think they do that anyway. We can't change it. We're we're we're we're under what was that? 32B. Yeah. Chapter 32b and we haven't accepted 7A. So chapter 32B is 50/50.
Nothing stopping us from going and having those discussions with insurers and presenting a plan to anyone else. But that completes the picture of that you can go to town meeting with all of that in involved and then
get the approval. My concern, Brian, is if we don't have at least twothirds of the fourthirds, you you'll lose a town meeting. I agree. That's what I'm afraid of. and and then so we can call a town meeting. I I have no objection. You want to call a town
meeting, let's do it. But I just think being cooperative about this, I think you're better off to have at least most of the whole picture painted then go to town meeting and say, "Hey, here's the math, here's the dollars, here's the percentages,
and here's and and we, you know, the ramifications we understand, but that'll make give people the ability to make an informed vote. If we I'm not so confident that if we went to town meeting and and I don't know what we need to pull together a town meeting. Let's say it was three weeks. Three
weeks from tonight we're going to have a town meeting. I just gave her a heart attack and I think Celeste was on on on as well. But hey, we'll call a town meeting and we're just going to single. Huh? Or iscept four weeks from now, but we don't have any of the the rest of the data and we're just going to do it. I think we're
setting ourselves up to fail at a at a special. That's and I appreciate the work everyone's doing here and I understand what you're saying. All we're asking for is a special meeting and then we'll move on to step two and step three and by the time we get to our special meeting, we'll have all five4s of your plan in place.
Now you're up to five. Yeah. So what what special meeting? There's got to be one more special town meeting. So the special town meeting is where everybody's where everybody comes in. Yeah. And they're going to vote, right? You know, you're a resident here. You saw you saw the fiber fail, right?
Yeah. barely. I don't think we did a good enough job. So, I think that we need to educate our pe our our citizens to have them understand. And if we call that now, I don't have all that information yet, right?
So, all it's going to be is will you pay more than 50%. And it failed once and I'm afraid it would fail again. If they if there's not sufficient information to have them say yes, they're going to say no. And I don't think you think you can convince them at a town meeting. Is that what you're
saying? That you want to have a conver? This isn't this isn't just a me or an I thing. I mean, I have I have fire department. I have town hall. I have police. I have all that. And I think we have time for you to set when you do it. I think we have time to get the information out. Do I believe
that? Yeah. Maybe I'm completely ignorant. I don't know. I'm not familiar with that. Is there This is your side of things. deadline to call a meeting once never and this is a requ this isn't to the signatures I I I think we're just talking
strategically here and it's up to the chair if you want to open the floor to any other questions or comments on this but I think we're all in agreement to go ahead and do this once we have some additional information to bring to that special that would give this a decent
chance of passing I my reservation is if we just do this say okay right everyone let's call a special and go to the special without the the first question is roughly what's this going to cost and everyone goes I don't know
we're done and second question where are you getting the money well it's the same it's I guess it's two sides of the same it's okay it's going to cost this much and how are we going to pay for it which is another you know I have to work with the accountant and really crunch the
numbers on our budget to make sure that it's that it's affordable. You know, um we have we have we have some I have some thoughts that I that are just thoughts now, so I won't bring them out in public, but um you know, I just want to make I want to if I if it was my town
meeting and I was and people were asking me, I would want these answers before I was going to say yes. Of course I I need to support the employees, but I will but I also want to see the numbers and I think that if it failed once I can't even believe it because every other town in the state that
passed it I don't know in the 70s or something but yeah um but whatever. So we have you know I think we have to be exactly strategic about it. Where I want to start also is how much can we squeeze out to determine if we say we kept the
plan we had what could we squeeze out and what percentage then could we contribute we don't want to contribute two more percent we want to contribute something substantial we have to know what we can do they may say yes we'll adopt 7A just says we can tweak that
percentage we want to have something significant and we don't know what that is yet because we're still gathering all of that and I don't know if we need 60 more days. I don't know if we can do anything retroactively
either. I guess that could be a possibility. So, putting a deadline on it, couldn't that push the look? No, because we're waiting for insurance companies and brokers.
We can't control their speed, unfortunately. Again, I just came to see if we could No, 100%. Saying no to a special town meeting. I think it's putting that before that horse. I We want to know what it is we
can do and then bring it to the community to tell them what we can do. But we've been looking to see what we can do for a while in in that time. Yeah. But this has gotten this is just out of control. That's what everyone
anybody in that trust all the town all the 74 towns in that trust are really scrambling right now. So uh you know it's not it's not it's a bleak outlook for that trust. And uh so you know and
they don't give any options on plans either, right? you don't get to have a high deductible plan or this or that or you know it's just one plan and single family and and so you know there could be so many different variables that that would be more affordable. Yes, it has. I think what you're saying
yes it has been we've been looking at it. The urgency has certainly escalated. We are looking at it nonstop now and it's still taking time to get responses. Okay. Do you have anything to add?
Unfortunately, she's been doing the work. You've been meeting with everybody. I've been meeting with everybody. I've I've met people in person. I've uh talked with people online. I have packages ready to go for to three different brokers. Um but they want loss
runs from the trust, which means you know how much it costs to insure Southic basically. And um the trust is not getting that document to supposedly anyone quickly. I asked back in I think it was August 10th. I asked and I still
haven't gotten it. Um until I have that document and I can give that put that to in the packet that I've got out to the three people I'm working with right now, the three brokers. They really can't they really can't quote anything. But I'm good to go. As soon as I get it, I
press send and and they're ready to go. So, I mean, at least we can get an idea of what numbers might look like um outside of the trust. Um it really I mean it's it's a required document.
So, getting numbers outside the trust and I appreciate all the work you're doing with this still does not help with the 50/50 until we get it into and I think what I think what everybody at the table is trying to tell you. So it doesn't help with the 50/50 but it helps with the premium amount.
So if your monthly premium is less then you pay 50% of less. No but the town wants to work with I think the town's people want to see the effort that we do before they say yes to this vote. That is what I think I am I am I am
petrified to go unprepared. Me too. And that is why I I don't want a no and I don't think we aren't saying no to a special town meeting. Like I said, we need to get all of that data to present at the town meeting to get that vote.
Yes. Okay. There that data is with you guys. Well, that data is with the insurance. And if there's anything that we can do to help you get Hampshire trust, does it does has Well, our attorney been
contacted to send them Thursday. We have a meeting on Thursday and it's on the agenda. I mean, yeah, it's rats jumping off, right? They're lo to give the data because they know what it means, right? I get it. But they have it's our data. They I got it last year, you know, but we
were just a little late to the game last year. So, and they were slow even then. So, um but so the bottom line we know is that 50% We want to go higher than 50%. But the town's people have to approve that and to get the town's people to approve it.
I think that they need some more information. So that's what we're waiting for. You can force a town meeting. You know that. You know, you need signatures. You can force it. But with if I'm not ready, then I can't I can't be confident that we're going to get a yes vote. Okay.
We even existing policy, we don't know what it's going to cost. The way there is a runaway. Yeah. And it's, you know, once we start getting numbers in, um, you know, some of my background is structuring health insurance plans for employees with different levels of stuff. So, I can certainly help and once
we get them in, then we have to craft how it's going to be affordable for you all. Um, and I can certainly assist hopefully speed some of that up. But, and so that's not even that's not I don't even think that's as important at a special town meeting, but
not for that. the amounts, where I'm getting it, and how important it is. Those are the three questions that I think that the town's people need to know. Like how Yeah, we need to we need to of course emphasize how important it is to have
good employees working in your community. And then it has to be affordable. It has it has to be affordable because it's not going down. And we're we're a town of $13 million. So, um, you know, a couple of towns just
went up $3 million in two years. It's it's crazy. And we're not alone. So, I guess I want to to tell everybody that, too. We're not alone. Most of Massachusetts, most of the towns are going through this right now. They're just not going through it with 50% on
the employees side. We're certainly not close, we're not closing the door at all. And I don't want you walking away anybody thinking we're closing the door on that. We just have to get that information for you to get that.
Okay. Very good. That's what I got. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Then we're going to invite Mr. Goddard to come and talk to us about complete streets, not health insurance.
Lighter lighter talk, not for sure. Let's say that there is a predicament everywhere in the common. But they're not wrong. I get it. It's just I think we have to put together the whole thing before you can go in front of town meeting. I just don't want to get beat at town meeting and then have a have a good plan and now you can't
implement said plan because you got beat at town meeting. Correct. Or go to town meeting, get be come back to town meeting with the same question, right? People hate that. People are tired of being serly, you know, you go
to town meeting with something, it it gets defeated. You come back to the next town meeting, it gets defeated. You call a special, you get def I'm tired of that. I think a lot of people are tired of that. So, I think having all your ducks in the proverbial row or at least I wasn't going to use that analogy.
I don't even know where all my ducks are at this moment, but you know what I mean. Having some of that stuff lined up so that you can make an argument of why you're going to do it, I think is the compelling one. And I think Brian gets it. I hope everyone else that was here tonight gets that as well. It's not a reluctance to do it. I just don't want to I don't want to put
us in a spot where now we can't do what we want to do by our employees. But John wants to talk about complete streets. Sure. Uh let's put three ducks in a row. A complete streets program. Is that is that like New Jersey where there's four of them?
that remains to be come here to be nicely done. Uh complete program, right? Uh these are well overarching idea is that we're providing um thought and effort uh towards
different modes of transportation so that uh we're increasing pedestrian safety um non-motorized uh transportation um as well as our conventional uh electrical, gasoline and diesel vehicles we see on the streets. Safety for all.
Uh within this program uh there are three tiers. The whole idea is if you complete the first two, you unlock the opportunity for funding which can support some elements of projects. Um for example, uh we're currently u have grant applications out for the powder
mill uh road reconstruction project. first phase of that. Um pedestrian safety is part of well I guess really the whole thing since we're extending a sidewalk from end to end but um in particular where we're working um or hoping to work right now starting at the
schools um over to the Legion driveway we are going to be putting in proper um uh and and beacon uh available crosswalks uh from the subdivision across the street over to the school complex. Uh so the whole
point of this is that got to satisfy three uh tiers. These three ducks right here. First tier is to adopt a policy uh for the town. If I can really generalize that policy, I believe you may have seen essentially um monuments uh the fact
that um non-motorized transportation and pedestrian movement um is a priority as well as you know uh the safety for all modes of transportation. Um it uh monuments the fact that the town as it
moves forward with projects and uh both design and execution that we're going to prioritize uh the opportunity to look um at those safety improvements um and also um have a little bit of a rearview mirror setup so that the end of every
given year we take a look back and see how we're achieving um goals and milestones within that policy. That's duck number one. Duck number two. I'm I'm sorry. I should say that duck number one is we're eligible for that because Nicole and I both have attended some
training. Right. That's step number one is the train. See, there is four. Listen, uh I'm not going to argue with not argue with the CEO right now, but nonetheless, uh we'll call that the fourth duck. So, yes, we've got qualified employees.
Qualified. Yeah. Um uh we set forth a policy that um second/ third duck uh in this list is working alongside a consultant to give us a prioritization plan that is fully grant funded through Mass DOT. I've got a
something you have to plan. Uh yes. Uh but in this particular case, the application would be um it is is both the grant is well funded and Cayenne Bond would be taking the reign. So there's no expenditure of town funds uh for the development of that
prioritization plan. Um that's interest. So if I do have a proposal uh over at DPW for that next step, but if we can get past um at least acceptance of a policy, is that what was presented to us? And yes, in your packet. Yeah,
it's it's it's pretty much a boilerplate. John tweaked it, but everybody, you know, we all kind of don't recreate the wheel. Yeah. I I did read some others and it was they're very it comes to us from the state and and you tailor it. They are trying to make this uh an
attainable goal. This this might be Doug three, but is there any um strings attached? So like when we talk about green energy, okay, now you can't buy a cruise if it's not electric or hand me down a car and all those other crazy things. Question my question.
Of course there is. I think uh according to my understanding in read the strings attached are placing a certain emphasis on safety
um for all the modes of transportation we discussed a few moments ago. uh the other string attached is making sure that we develop I'm sorry I should say that there is a entity um that is formed and I can't think of the
proper term but basically we're talking about complete strle right yep to to emphasize as well as that's the body which I presume would be the select board to have that rearview facing mirror um and saying okay how are we
performing towards those goals and objectives And and I just did this in my last town, so I so I'm it's still pretty fresh, but it's not like you build the road, you have to build the bike lane, you have to you know, we had a four lane highway in Brenfield and now it's two lanes because you have to have bike lanes everywhere. You don't have to do
that. There are some strong recommendations, but you don't have to put a bike lane in every single um every single but you have to look and see where it's feasible and if and then you can get grants. We could
get tons of grants, safe routs to school and all of that, you know, helping our our rail trails connect becoming a complete getting complete streets um adopting it. So that packet was step one or step
the step one was taking the course and then step two was this and then step three is prioritization plan and then you can comply for grants. And who's paying thy bonds? time bonds paying themselves. That's DOT to be direct.
Okay. Do you think it's a good idea? Yes, absolutely. If uh in previous years uh the question has been asked, oh, what how can that benefit the town? Uh but uh and I think
Mr. Mogland at least through our planning board uh years would uh agree with I'm not one to shy away from asking the question. Let's uh you know there's funding opportunities out there. It's not going to fund a significant percentage of the powder mil road project for example. That's far too uh
infrastructure heavy underground infrastructure. Um, but if that I think we also get the ability to achieve more points on our grant grant applications by saying, "All right, we've secured or or we've applied for funding through this uh additional source trying to show
that we're seeking u multiple avenues to implement projects." Westfield just did this, right? Like very recently. I don't know. I I share the same concern as Mr. Anderson and I'd like to better
understand how that what the implications are for future projects because going back to the Route 168 project that was a complete streets project and it had significant implications to the cost
of the project that also had some other issues going on too but there was issues to the cost of that project. We also had to go through a significant process to get a waiver to get the sidewalk down to one side of the street because we just didn't even have the
land. We were have to do worse takings than what happened over there already. Um, so I'd like to see a little bit more data about that. I I'm in agreement there's there's opportunities for it. And then there's other places in in the Commonwealth where I think the state has
done a disservice to everyone, including those that own and operate bikes, those that pay taxes, and those that drive cars. If you're in any one of those categories, the state has done a disservice by you on some of these quote unquote road diets, complete streets, whatever you want to call them. So, I
want to be careful with how we tread here. Um but you know on the powder mill road project you know there there is an opportunity there because of the the the sidewalks and other stuff but as we look at other you know I'd like to understand what a complete streets town what that
does dollars per road mile in some of the other projects that we have pending and I was going to say we have quite a few incomplete streets right now in our town that we need to address um and what that implications are to our road you know our backlog of work if we
adop top complete strengths. Fair enough. And I don't mind digging a little bit. Sometimes you take uh you have one vision in mind. Uh you don't uh see other factors. So I don't mind reversing if you will. Take close look and see because to your point, sure
there have been some uh there have been successes and there have been some failures with this and related um I assume Taiwan's done this for other communities. Could they give us a quick review of that? Sure. I'm sure they'd be uh happy to u I'll ask the question both
through my channels as well as through tying bond um get a little more detail on this. Uh allow me to echo Nicole's statement from just a moment ago that you know certainly this doesn't mean that uh uh uh Birchwood is going to turn into you know strike pipelines and and
mobile sidewalks. That's what we need and I think we have a lot of it. Let me boil it down to something that's digestible. Sure. And I'm not looking to burn you with a ton. Maybe if Ty and Bond came into us on a, you know, some future Monday night, you know, with you Monday
night. What is it list of street and sidewalk projects? That is what 50 60 items listed, not even all of them. What What does it dictate on those versus what you all have planned for them?
Makes sense. I'm happy to dig in a little further and uh let's get some texture. Mhm. All right. And while he Yeah, I was gonna say I ain't gonna let you out here that we did have road discussion down the way here. You had a few things to add the following that list.
Let's talk about that list uh for a moment. Um the uh pavement uh oh the acronyms escape me, but the the payment improvement program through Mass DOT has provided us uh with uh camera
records for 93 uh discrete uh drainage runs from Bugby Road onto the South and Granville Road line. Um and that inspection uh was an opportunity and it was funded through uh Mass DOT uh
to figure out what's the condition of that infrastructure before the state comes in and u repaves that length right there. Uh the camera results indicated that a full quarter of um those lengths
uh were in need of immediate replacement. um including that quarter right there. I think the number bumps up into the mid 40% of ones that indicate rot or loss of steel material. It's virtually all
corrugated metal um virtually all 50 to 70 years old um for that particular um section of uh Granville Road. However, uh we did meet with Mass DOT a week or two ago uh and they indicated
that this funding and this opportunity doesn't evaporate. U they're committed to um that uh payment improvement program and uh and working with communities. Uh their program however
can't fund um on a large scale uh drainage improvements. So, let me share um that Rich Bosac over at DPW and I are working uh through September to
uh map out if you not let's take the uh the surveyed information of the pipelines, figure out where these critical uh failures are um and what we can do to break it down maybe into four or five chunks um that road mileage um
and put together a meaningful project for mass DOT to implement one year uh while we continue on with drainage uh work in a sub well throughout the same year. And you're talking about paving. Yep. Different pave like the good section and not That's right. It's ultimately we're
going to have to uh certainly attack the uh you know the points of failure um and to the degree that we can other points of imminent um or at least significant deterior. have something we can do in house or
uh yes to a degree um let me back that up for a moment um in house with our staff I don't think we have the capacity um to put in the production hours uh and take away from the day-to-day uh as a casual observation
I think our DPW is sized largely to manage day-to-day um operations um so uh I'm sorry the inhouse house initial yes was, oh, I think we would be working through our uh our hourly contractor. Um, and if I'm
lucky, I get to identify a bunch of uh runs that are crossing Route 57, those being a little bit easier to manage than long linear runs. Um, they go from basin to basin on the way down towards a water course. uh I can have a handful of those
performed and that lock unlocks you know a mile or two um of payment and that's something that uh you know the state can more swiftly move forward on. Uh, the reason why I bring this up now is because I think that plays into our thoughts um about what to do with some of the
remaining funds and the chapter 90 funds that now have been announced for town. Uh, as it relates to funding, I think we need to um at least complete the analysis that Rich
and I are are going to work on to figure out where and how quickly we can move and how much needs to be done in order to unlock um for the state to come in and pay section number 57. uh try to plan out um you know how much we would
be a able from a time and funding standpoint uh to commit uh to those drainage approvals and try to take advantage of uh the state funding while while it's here. Um the conversation did
not go so far uh into the weeds as they indicated it would be here for 20 years or 10 years, but at least within a few seasons the the funding wasn't going to evaporate. um that commitment to the town. So, you thought they wouldn't start paving
now until 27? Yes. To be honest, I think the uh effort as I see it now in order to um get crews out there, perform the work of whatever magnitude and give the road time to settle. uh that's
likely going to push paving work uh into maybe the fall 26, but 27 seems more likely. And to be honest, that that ends up being a state, if you will, time f time time frame as well. And you said they wouldn't cover major
infrastructure repairs, but there might be some contribution towards some. I think the contribution of of all the camera work which if I didn't make enough emphasis on I do think is a significant gesture um and expenditure
of funds. I think that's the um we're going to call it above and beyond effort at the state for this particular project. Now in some locations they might go in there and uh assist with you know raising sunken catch basin um frames.
In this case, we're talking about more extensive work and so I don't expect additional commitment outside of the service commission. So, we were kind of haggling on this list to
um designate some remaining funds. Are you suggesting that those remaining funds would go towards the beginning of that drainage? I I rest of this year. Uh, at the risk of developing what may sound like a
broken record, I'm trying to buy myself a little more time so we can complete this exercise at Granville Road and figure out what we think a meaningful expenditure and project would be um out there in order to push that forward. I recognize that uh the remainder of our
non-numbered um street and infrastructure improvements remain important. So I I just don't want to provide that answer just yet. So So um So we don't want to dictate that it's going to be project number 12, 14, and
18 just yet either. Yes. Is what I'm getting at. Yes. Because we had that hanging out. Part of this is I believe Beta sent their agreement today. Um so he was hoping to have a report back to us on
their their services by October. Okay. So that's tremendous. So that might help tie into something. Sure. I think we'll call the remaining items on that list. Um, and we're going to we're holding off on crack ceiling,
not identifying any uh perfect fit streets between Rich and I. We're going to hold off until the springtime uh when we have that report in hand. Uh if the deliverable comes in in time for something in the late fall, then so be it. But I might be a little optimistic.
Interested. for crack sealing or for overlay for crack sealing. Just uh so we have an we have a budget item um that we've been allocated to that effort. Um but since Mr. Bosak and I didn't come up with one called purpose for streets, the ones that haven't deteriorated too
far and were in obvious need would benefit um for the winter season, we figured let's uh sit tight and have a prioritization plan. So some of the projects that were funded last year, are those going to get done in this season where here we are in
September? Like Hillside and Hillside and South Lumis, especially South Lumis where they finished the drainage work that they were and they were supposed to come in and pay. We we even opened bids for and that was funded in last year's money. I believe we are anticipating that work to
commence within I think it was two weeks at this point in time. Good to know. Excellent. And then I I I will give I I think we should give you the whatever amount of leash you need for this endeavor here on the Route
57 issue. But I would take a look a strong look at some of the projects that this was step three of three redux yet again. Three of three that we were committed to, right? We're not just involved, we're committed. Like we we've got a
couple projects on here that we were putting money out to say, "Okay, let's go and do oh, I don't know, you know, some other thing and let's do that." But like Gargan, Ed Hulcom, those roads are those projects were split into thirds and let's finish the last third of
those. We have the money to do that in this and I don't know if we're going to be able to get them in this season even, but let's get those done. But I agree to keep the powder dry on some of the other stuff that we can allocate to this endeavor as we need to. And like I said, I think we need to have another whole
meeting with you guys to kind of talk about, you know, we had talked in last year at the beginning or at the end of last fiscal year about potentially a bonding issue for roads. This this other u what's the name of that thing? Beta. Thank you. Beta thing is something to
also put all together and kind of give us some guidance around that because I'm I'm hoping some other services make their money go a little further. Oh, 100%. And and possibly bidding differently or you know something through through other
methods. I don't Excellent. Um I think time will hurt us for the state we're in. I was going to say it was it was okay to delay a little bit because this came up right there. Our delay was worth it.
My plan all along. Gosh. All right. Not that we forgot that we still hadn't. Um neither have I. Neither have I. But uh Okay. Has anyone ever done a a study
of adding and you you said you're the staffing's equipped for day-to-day, but is does adding one or two skilled trades people open the door for us doing some of this work ourselves? The reducing cost on the other end? I mean, I know
employees are expensive, but so is these roses. think that would be a Randy question. No, I understand. But I don't know if it was ever done on the pants like it ever come forward to take on more projects in house would know that at this table because
Yeah. Well, I think that from what I hear there used to be more people in the DPW and they used to do a lot more in-house work, right? That's what I and they kind of got rid of them and now everything almost everything's outsourced. Uh
I have a site work background and uh I see opportunity um every day. Uh but I recognize there are some limitations some perhaps equipment could be people. That's my point exactly. I think uh
there it's not just staffing I suppose that would hold us up. You either have to agree to a lease or you know obtain a piece of equipment. um that has the reach um that has perhaps a zeroturn capacity to work within our rights away
right has the reach to uh to set full lengths of pipe um something worth exploring I think as things move on math problem right it really is a math problem I always look at some of those things you know make buy type of
solutions right is if we we we had looked at one time of buying a piece and actually I think we actually had budgeted for it for be able to pave a section of road a short section 15 20 25 ft. So instead of doing a pothole repair you kind of cut the road put in a section and move forward.
Something happened with the funding on that. I think it got caught in a chipper that we lost during a storm or something and we reallocated the money for it. But I think what happens is when you it it starts to I won't use the pun steamroll but if you bring the people then you got to bring the equipment and you've got to
make sure that those folks then stay busy so you have to fund the ro you know what I mean and so versus you buy a piece of the contractor for the time you have it and then but you pay their margin you have that's the math. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
So if it went the other way and we contract we diluted our staffing and contracted I'm going to say it was probably an analysis some time ago that has transitioned to today but absolutely worth looking at and I I would say I think I don't think
that the headcount at DPW has changed significantly in the last 15 years up or down like plus one minus one type of scenario like somebody leaves we hire somebody I don't think there's been like
somebody left we filled it. I I don't know. I know we you we negotiated some of those licenses into the the agreements we have on on the water system and whatever but perhaps way back um there was a larger DPW
operation. I but it predates myself. Okay. Did you have anything else on No, I guess it's more of an update for the time being. We'll circle back to it. Uh say in a month's time, give or take. One last question. Any update on that South Longard piece?
Yes. So, uh you may be aware that I had uh met with representatives at Crest Construction um and conservation uh for that project. Um I'll be direct our local conservation
bylaw uh to me and my permit experience uh provided a bit of an obstacle. It appears that conservation um is willing to recognize that drainage way um um with some decree of non-significance
um and allow uh the infrastructure to be placed underground. Uh the estimate that came back from Crest View reflects um a disturbance area increase and u
certainly a labor component that would make it more expensive to continue work above ground versus put it into manholes and pipes. And I think uh that it can pass the conservation straight face test since the discharge already exists um at
Great Brook. So I have an estimate. I have a little bit of tinkering to do to uh find ways to have enough contingency and make sure we're thinking about all elements of uh
project execution um within uh the budget that we currently have. think I'll have to fatten that slightly, but that's an answer I'll have to work through. Um I there's no way around filing a notice of intent. Um albeit I
think this would make qualify for a limited project provision which um expedites and truncates review to a certain degree. But with conservation, I don't think there's a way around um applying for that notice of intent. uh even though we have certain uh
persistent permits with them, we're working outside of the buffers on within resource area by being that close to uh Great Brook and within Flood Plane. Um, so without revealing too much about um
what I have on my top priorities list, uh that's right there because the conservation process will lead up sometime. Um and we'll have to see how that plays with uh the remainder of the construction season. Okay. I was just down there again. It's it's dramatic.
It's holding on itself because it's just it's gotten so bad that it's just making itself worse every day. So the longer that I get the NOI process has to happen and I don't know if there I don't think that there's anything that be done on an emergency basis
to get in there to stop it or slow it. It's kind of a that stone has already started to roll downhill if you will. I think so. So nonetheless I hope to have uh we'll sort out the the budget component. Uh but absent rather aside that point aside uh we're pushing uh the
conservation piece uh forward uh and hopefully we'll have uh that meeting with conservation. It's probably not going to be until early October after they uh perform their publishing. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that update. My pleasure.
But the ground will be opened up soon afterwards. There's a lot less of a sudden in my in my perfect world. Yes. All right. Because I think the opportunity to stabilize what we have down there, the the construction
disturbance and the cost to put in erosion stabilization measures as they kind of back their way out of there is going to be um offset by eliminating the problem uh as
soon as possible. Yeah. Okay. So, I think they'll be able to proceed once we have conservation permitting and I think uh we're not talking about uh funding mismatch that is fundamental to executing the work. Well said. Okay. Let's see if I oversold myself and I have
Thank you, John. I appreciate you. Appreciate my pleasure. Very much. Thank you. All right. Quickly, um, can we acknowledge and approve $50 donation to be deposited into the libraryies gift
account? Second. Roll call vote. Diane Gail. I Doug Maldin. Yes. Rose Anderson. Yes. Okay, then. Sorry. Chief Stfanowitz has some call force firefighters that he
would like us to appoint. And we have two members. Um there's three on the list right now. We're just doing a a little bit of paperwork for the third. Um Emily Davis was a former intern of ours and uh she's back and would like to become a full member. So we're excited
to have her. And then Paul Slinsky uh new member but a friend of a couple of people in the department. Uh both were interviewed last week and both all three interviewed well. Um, so we'd like to move forward with those two right now for Emily Davis and Paul Swinsky and not the third.
Um, just we have a little bit big work to do for him first. So once that's away. Okay. So moved. Second. Roll call vote. Diane Gail. I Doug Moin. Yes. Ros Anderson. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for waiting
for all of that. Okay. Do we need to acknowledge and accept the resignation from the board of assessors from Alan Ho? And that is another elected position. We will have to uh find someone to fill on
the interim. And then we go into other new business. I have no other new business today. Do you? Um the only thing I don't know where this falls um and it kind of came
up through the dog hearing and the last when the gentleman Mr. Peraryi come in for licensing. We used to send out cards to remind people that their dog license is coming due. Um and I was told we don't do that
anymore. And I was wondering if it's something we could at least start up again and do for one year. capture um capture email addresses. It would be done electronically after that. Um it's my understanding there's a dog program if you would that will capture this and
do this. I guess Tracy used to do this. It is on the census form. It's on the census. Correct. But this was Tracy used to send out separate cards and I do know the treasurers are doing something similar to that already
proactively. They have a list of all the dog licenses and they are not I don't recall exactly what they're doing but they are following up on those that are not coming back in yet. So I I think they're right but that now now it's with a late
fee. To me it should be proactive that this mean you get a you I think I think they're trying to do something before it hits a late fee. Okay. But but we can I can get further information on that. Okay. Just seems kind of a red flag. office. H that'll be the town clerk.
Of course. Maybe it's just maybe the card gets bailed with that property tax bill that's due around that time, too. Just something that stands out and jumps out. Yeah, there like 1,200 licenses, something like that. So, I think we could communicate a little better. It seems like for some
either we're not you can do it online, but for some reason there's a lot of dog licenses get missed. H I think she said that she told me when they did it on the census they cut it in half
for for that education part. So either we're not conveniently open, you know, that's been a topic. I I can see what they get more information on what they were telling me they were doing and and we can talk about that some more. Sure. Okay. Anything else? No.
Uh couple things. One is reminder, it is new business because I don't think we talked about on here, but reminder that this Thursday is 911 and we are going to have a where the chief go. There's always a a very well done ceremony by the police and fire departments at the fire department. I think it's at 9
40 40 at the fire station. Secondly is um I had sent an email to ask to put this on an agenda and I don't know where we went with it but we need to decide if we want to renew
uh or continue our corporate membership to Rotary. I don't know if we actually took a vote on that or not. We done not because um I don't know you were looking into how its origination or um I did talk to Mr. Fox today about it
briefly just to let him know where we were on it. Um, and that's it for new business for me. Oh, wait. I did have one more. Um, this came up. I think Nicole and I talked about this. There was a request for some
money to put a um name on the the stone at the war memorial and the monies that were there rolled probably to free cash because they ran out or there was a grant that had to be closed out on June 30th that we wrote the report for. So there so there's no
money, right? So, I'm suggesting that for the upcoming annual that we create a revolving fund for veterans projects and the town green and the war memorial. I love that.
So, that we have that. I'd like, you know, coming up on our 250th, I'd love to see us do a flag project up and down College Highway with uh photos and and names of veterans who have served uh our country that are from
Southwick. Um I know our former treasurer, clerk, collector champion that in her town in um Windsor Locks. Um I think it was an excellent idea. It's something I like to do. there's always continued work to be done over at that
war memorial. Um, and by having setting up that revolving, it creates a vehicle for us to hold that that money and if we if someone has a fundraiser or or there is a fundraiser, the money could be deposited in that account and used for that purpose.
I think that's a great idea. Love it. Okay. Okay. Would Would that be a gift account type of thing, too? So, you could take donations if you wanted. Yes. Correct. Anything new? No. Anything new?
All right. Old business. We saw Mr. Goddard on the old business. Um the land acquisition for 306. It is not College Highway. It's feeding hills. Um but we have nothing to discuss anyway except that there is a site visit September 10th, Wednesday at 400 PM out there to
look at the uh adjoining that property and the what? The maps. I said that was really good. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Um, under just a point of clarification on that just because I saw a couple emails on it
from Sabrina and for ourselves. A site visit and emails pertaining to scheduling are almost never an open meeting law violation. So, email your heart's content with someone. I have them available on a Wednesday or a Thursday. Because there was emails
like, oh, only email me back. And then it just creates a more of a problem for the person trying to schedule the meeting or for the rest of us trying to see. Correct. Well, I don't know who, you know, just send it to everybody. Scheduling a meeting is never an issue. And then also a site visit does not have to be a posted meeting
as long as the people at that meeting don't discuss the subject matter at hand. You're there to take in, observe, and then you go back to a meeting that's posted to discuss it later. Right. when we do our tour of the roads and that kind of thing or the site visit, that's part and parcel of
of the job. No, no, absolutely. I'm just we had a couple of these come up in the last several weeks and it it got in the way of actually scheduling it because Okay, under other old business, um I will start select board goals and objectives updates. Um Doug, you did
some abbreviations, a different chart. Um numbered them. I went through very carefully. I redid the minutes from the thing. I have no idea how that was. Hope it was
an emergency. um went through the meeting notes, numbered what we talked about on that, identified what dropped off appropriately. Some of the things dropped off. Maybe we didn't agree they dropped off, but they dropped off. I
then wo the master plan action recommendations into what I found to be common. And I color coded so those are in green. I will just send you this. You can review it. Um so there then
we can also start clicking off for the master plan process. I also identified which ones we can put on our first map and say we have in process or completed. So I will share that with you as well. Sure. Um
one question quick on that. Yep. I know you have the bunk rooms. Should that be off because it's that wasn't even on there. I was just going to say that one showed up that wasn't um even discussed and that absolutely can come. I'm sure it was okay previous years. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
So, can I borrow that for? Yes. So, this is a a template I've used for a long time just to track like an action item list. So, I kind of just turned our list this way, but it gave us more room to add more description of to what we're
trying to do. So, in future years we look at it go, what were we thinking? And then it gives you options on the right to kind of give updates to it as we go. So we don't just dust this thing off the first of the year. This is something you can go through week by week or month by month
to see what where you are and kind of go through it. Or you have, you know, every couple every quarter you have a, you know, a work session or a meeting where you just kind of roll through this, right? Just a different way of doing it. And here on the right, we can add projects to each category and track it.
Y um I would for myself at least I am going to keep our annual or quarterly notes on it for reference just like you said so when we pick it up a year from now we're like what the hell did we we had that what did that mean what did that mean uh this keeps the legacy
sure so so I'll send that to you guys as well um when I use this outside of here what I do when something gets completed we gray it out change the priority to 99 and then it just sits at the the document forever. So, you've got that historical
view of what happened. Okay. Yep. Anything else on goals and objectives for today? Health insurance number one. Oh, yeah. We were going to talk about You had asked for um That's a different duck. You had asked what were our
you wanted two or three or four that we wanted to be able to knock off before our terms expire. I just think in general, you got to have some goals of your goals. Right. So, did you come up with three or four or
five? Right. I Yeah, I still have mine from before when I put in Are we going to like consolidate them and agree these are the the top ones or I guess we'll have to see what your list
comes back in next meeting. Maybe we look at I guess and then see if there's any of the master plan ones we can quickly finish and I guess. All right. So, we'll do that. Yes. Yeah. All right. Fine. Okay. I think the M and know the master plan ones some of them are
again very wordy. I I get it. But I'm just saying I just think I'll just put mine are easy, right? The health insurance number one. I think roads are number two. MUN fiber is number three. And I don't know that I even have a four at this
point given all the the the work involved in those three. You know, the health insurance is just the big one for the town and and we have to dedicate the resources to do it. The employees are counting us to to do it. The roads were well on our way to working on that. Um and now we've got
this new wrinkle with the Granville road piece, but um that still we're going to have to figure out what Beta tells us and then figure out how we're going to put together a funding package that gets us out of where we are. And then the MUN fiber is a master plan one. Um and we're starting on it. So,
you know, I could take a look at the rest of it, but off the top of my head, those are, you know, my top three. Yeah. I mean, I'd be I'd be in line with that. My my third or fourth would be, you know, getting channel 15 more productive and and being part of our
economy. Absolutely. And um our systems, the MUN, I know you get you're working on u you know, some of the systems with with MUN and all that. Sure. Hopefully we'll get feedback from that soon. Yeah.
Have they ever come back? They haven't come back yet. Not yet. That included the payroll piece too, right? Talking about some of that till that was in there. Yeah, absolutely. Good. Okay. Anything under miscellaneous? Miscellaneous.
I don't know why we have that on there in case anything new new comes up. I don't know. Um why don't we get rid of that? I know that we'll need the department head reports we got and there was some more on your desk today. Acknowledge and approve the open session.
Sorry, was that in the meeting packet email the department head reports or I just got one when I came in tonight? Yes, most of them. And you got Can someone resend me the meeting packet for tonight? Honestly, I never So, I have it up right here. If you could just forward it to me because I never seen it this week. Oh,
did it new? I got I got the agenda, the amended agenda, and the minutes. It was She had to put it in a link because it was so heavy. Okay. I'll double check. So, it's in that email. Okay. Not not a separate PDF. Um, okay. Acknowledge and approve open
session minutes from August 14th and the 25th. Are we prepared? You said the 14th you still wanted to review. I said them late this afternoon. So, so we'll hold that one. other ones from the 25th. I had sent my changes in. So
I'd make a motion as amended if those changes were incorporated because they were there was something highlighted coming around tonight. So moved. Roll call vote. Dan Gale. I Doug Moin. Yes. Anderson. Yes. And we will do the 14th next week. Yeah.
Okay. Acknowledge special payables warrant 2605B dated August 22nd, 2025 in the amount of $425. That was a special one. Acknowledge payables warrant 2606B dated September
2nd, 2025 in the amount of $292,84762. We are not going into executive session tonight. So look for a motion to adj. Did you do old business? We did. Yes, we did. You did new business. Did you do Oh, did you have other old business? I'm sorry. We I thought we
Go ahead. Yes. Um, one is a followup. There was a citizen commentary around the transfer station. I have two items to bring up under that. Thank you. Um, one was, uh, there was a detail officer out there last Saturday,
not this past Saturday, Saturday before. And at last count, it was north of 70 uh, violations noted on Saturday. That included anything from I don't have a sticker to the stickers in my other car to the stickers sitting in my glove box
to anything. He just kept the list of license plates, but it was 70 deep. A lot of people were able to renew uh roadside, I guess you'd want to call it, or dumpster side. So, obviously, there's work still to be done there for
compliance in people coming and going from the transfer station. Um the other thing that uh one of the folks pulled me aside on Sat this past Saturday just after the weather came through and said that we need to and I we need to bring
this back to to Richie. um we need to do a better job on one day and the overall I thought that it was in the blue pamphlet but it I double checked it's not used to be your your there was kind of an allowance of what you can bring to
the dump by via quantity and it was you know basically a car load or a pickup truck per week is what you're supposed to bring your normal household trash um and a one-day permit people can go to the town and buy a one-day permit that
should not be a license to make 14 trips to the dump annual trip or yeah, make 14 trips to the dump that day as you clean out a house or whatever it is that needs to be looked at. Um there was a couple of them this past week and if if it was enough for him to
pull me aside at the transfer station said, "Hey, this is a real issue." So you told somebody else to They didn't tell anybody that was working there. Huh? They didn't tell like one of the employees that look this person's coming. No, no. It was one of the workers from DPW pulled me aside to say you need to get, you know, you need to look at this.
This is a real concern. And so it it's absolutely a valid point. So it's something we should as we're looking at this whole thing for the transfer station with access to it and how we're going to do it. This is one other area we should just take a look at. You know, people should there is cases where people need to get a dumpster or go to
KN something over in Westside, right? And take care of that kind of stuff. That's not the purpose of the transfer station. It's mostly for household trash. Um, and then the I had I think we want to bring forward the question on the the dog license issue that I brought up
during the hearing is um if you owe fines outstanding fines on a on a dog issue, I don't think you should be able to register your pets and and or you'd be subject to the late fee or whatever until you conclude your business with the town on those tickets.
you know, reading what I read, yeah, I think we should go forth and let those things get adjudicated the way they're supposed to be. But if there's outstanding monies owed by someone, um whether it's property tax or anything else, you it should be just like we do with other permits in town. If you owe, you can't apply for a building permit,
you can't apply for whatever it is. And we should this should fall in line with that process. And if you have other things outstanding, you can't get your dog permit either. All of them. I guess they should all kind of work together and I don't want to, you know.
Yeah. Yes, that was going to come up. I was actually going to bring that up with you, too. Okay, that's all I have for old business. Did you have other old business? I'm so sorry to And you want that motion to adjurnn? You guys are all set on old.
Yes, please. So, move second. Roll call vote. Let's go. Di yes.