##VIDEO ID:SDgwFHaWwoQ## okay it's 7 7:00 on uh January 27th and we call to order the meeting of the Southwick board of appeals um in attendance tonight we have Mike parent Dan Tobias and Chris mastriani Bill Liss is um ill and can't be here Wendy Cordo is also ill and can't be here uh Paul is the iy haven't heard from him so we we'll see what happens um this meeting is being recorded on on Zoom uh for publication on the website in a little while we got some paperwork to do I'm not aware of any bills that need to be paid uh we have meeting minutes to review since Dan was the only one was here at the last meeting I'll let him gives an opinion on what the minutes sound like you have copy yeah um Chris on the well he's doing that um are we going to get some clarification you know this new law that's going into effect I think on February 1st or the 15th where you can build uh an in-law apartment I think they're still working on the on the bylaw it's the last I heard was in it was in discussions in that select board or planning board that they're going they're they're trying to come up with the wording to to put it in into the bylaw yeah there's some restrictions on I don't think it can be short-term rental and you know certain size and certain percentage of the size of where of the primary dwelling so um yeah it's not uh finalized yet but I think they're on their way to to to getting something official so that they can yeah because I think there's certain things that we can't now stop happening yeah that it sounds like it's strictly the building the uh building inspector will have I not say the final word but is we would still be involved if there's variances involved but if it's if it's strictly renovating a basement or above a garage or something of an of a existing unit I think it's just lies with the building inspector so oh now um isn't Woodward Woodward leaving didn't he give up assistant building oh jeez insector yeah I don't even know the assistant I just I've only met them he's switching there evidently was a position open at the uh Street the engineering streets and Engineering Oh no you're talking about John Godard John that's what I meant yeah he's he's the Town planner right so yeah he switching his to the DPW or something DPW yeah I'm not sure exactly when or or what that position is but yeah because he was pretty much the planning board he would really go to all their meetings and yeah kind of yeah he was the kind of like the the focal point I would go and talk to him or the conservation would talk to him and he would kind of coordinate all the the different boards and who who has to do what kind of thing yeah so uh because that's another thing that we kind of reli on yeah if you had a question right so okay so um this should be it hello hello hello how are you hello good how are you are we right on time or what you right on the head which meeting are you looking for um our neighbors that's putting up the fence in the uh the um deck in the yard left it in the car okay4 Brookshire's your street address 56 Brookshire all right we'll get we'll get to that in one minute thanks thanks for coming what do you think of the minut uh minutes look correct summarizes it y uh Dan reviewed the minutes meeting minutes so I'll make a motion to accept the meeting minutes um as as written the second I'll second it second everyone um in favor I I okay the minutes are minute meeting minutes of January 13th meeting are approved Okay so I don't see anybody waiting here waiting to get in yet Just for information usually we have a secretary who helps us be more organized she is she is she is ill all the paperwor improvising have it so WR the car to yeah wait to see if somebody appears remotely here I don't I don't know whether your neighbor was coming in person or whether they were going to I was assuming he Zoom it because he lives in h Pittsville but he has the house right next door to us they just part okay was gonna zoom [Music] in this is where you look through as participants is that where I look they usually pop up over here okay um or something will come up saying so and so is waiting or requesting to attend okay yeah as long as you have it as a closed meeting it would come up otherwise people can come right in without okay yep so you have to yeah they need a code yeah huh somebody has to we have to set it up so that people have to ask to join the meeting oh okay if you don't do it that way anybody that's you hear these Zoom bombing people go and they show parts of their body they shouldn't be show that kind of stuff we don't need that the we we have enough excitement Zing board of appeals without doing that so missed all the excitement so far Paul okay yeah we uh did you need that paper I can go to the car and get it minutes regarding that we got in the mail oh the whe Butters know no as long as uh you're who you say you are oh we approve the minutes P when we get when we get into the meeting we'll just have you say your name and and where you are and what your opinion is and but we're waiting for the uh main participant to make an appearance here he and Wy are both sick Wendy's really sick hasn't been near me has she no she hasn't been near I talked on the phone I think that that's safe no Ian she said you can stop over here and pick up the folder I said no that's I I will improvise stick ship swap it out on yeah just do that playing with it the is that okay I never got a copy the what time well we don't know what time 7:05 these folks said it was 7:05 they were they were on time that yeah computer says 710 so oh we're late yeah we're waiting waiting for the applicant to I don't know how how long we give them posted um we can hear they have to say you running away see hear what they have to say that rather than keep here you said 710 is what what the meting said 705 was suppos excuse me um before we get to that just some a general question is how's this room working out for oury for our meetings not good I don't know if you had many people at the last meeting Haven filled it up yet pretty close though I think what we might have to do is have people who aren't on the docket so to speak wait outside and then bring them in yeah we're yeah suppose we get somebody and they have all their Butters come in what you do yeah in this room yeah we've had that well if it's controversial we may have to ask him to switch or something or I all the light side that I don't know if that there was a conference room downstairs that had some chairs but I don't know if that's one still available or not I think that was called conference room three or I know I went to a conservation meeting one time we used to in Westfield we had a smaller room of this size and uh when we had something controversial we'd have to use City uh council's Chambers oh you know when there were a lot of people who were upset about something and wanted so we'd have to go go use that on a you know basis where we're gonna have too many people there yeah well why don't we go out of order here and have these fine folks tell us what why they why they're here and what their opinion is on this just give us your name and u and your address please Andre and Linda Williams we here regarding the Gazebo 56 BG Shire Avenue not Gazo the deck Andre and Linda Linda okay and the last name again Williams Williams okay and the address 56 Booker AV now it's an interrogation you uh okay so but what why you here oh because we received the letter just saying U regarding him building the deck on his Beach so I'm fine with it okay if they're entitled to their we're fine with it yes we're fine with it good to know that's s okay did you did you see the ACT did you see the plan no it doesn't no we didn't know anything of it I know where he's going to do it at but I didn't see it he he he had it roped out at one time you know well there's a sketch from the from the deck vendor I think this as far as what the goes but show looks like at all that that is the de well that's the dimensions of of the deck yeah dimensions of the deck no de well just the same we have no problem with them doing don't have any problem okay what type of variant are they looking for you say if that's the case then you folks are free to go okay uh know if that's your input we're we're appreciative of people who come especially when they're in favor of something because usually we only hear people who are against St oh no no no if you're if you're in favor of it then then we appreciate you're taking your time and coming out in cold and and letting us know that because that it it is an important thing that we that we listen to when no problem when these kind of things happen so I I will record that that you don't have a problem with it and uh thank you for thanks for coming Celtics thank you stay warm though put another layer of wax on the snow shovel because supposed to snow two nights in a don't remind me I know you all Take Care thank you for coming have a good evening yeah they did a lot of nitpicking stuff is great but still no picture of the day and the other question I have is that already shown on the town map or that or you're blank on the town map there it doesn't doesn't exist on M is that what you're asking yeah be honest I haven't seen that the bylaw is 10 ft from the side property line and they're asking for 5T from the property I'm wondering if these people were their mediate AB Butters 10 ft good yeah yeah why that's the town map that's the town map yeah this is the house now there's there's like a a yeah okay I don't know if that's a pier or a walkway or something so I think they want to put the deck in this where this uh retaining wall inside the retain and what are you looking at this is the southw uh interactive they mention retaining wall but they don't show it well so that's 56 there's not deck on the on the property you just find that yes yeah if you type in South M GIS yes come up with this here and that's it right there and you can't quite put it see that this one here yeah you go to that site first yeah so see what I type in Google yeah sou gain wall and they have some stairs down I just click on that one there and then okay this one available on this page yeah so you just click on it here the house is so there is no information Tak you straight to the map so other ones you go into a website and then there's another link almost and then once you get in here this folks that were here type 54 that's birkshire it'll take you right there it's very close to the property line I check with the building inspector and then this will show you all your Wetlands this was built in 2014 I believe but they didn't have a copy variance or not you remember I didn't think so no I think I built illegally but you should yeah when I buil my house was all over there no there there was a a building permit for it so building respector must to sit well either that with the problem was before 2018 so this is paper here of electronic records so their paper file did not have a copy of the variance in it I didn't get a chance to ask Wy we shows you South you can type in any address there it'll take you right to the address and then you can click on the butters around it it'll tell you the wasn't this guy who owns it assess value my friend art I'll show you all the property lines the schoolhouse school all that now he was pretty tight with things so that's why it went I don't recall it but we've had other cases in the same area I don't know what's up with this guy course can I see that Matthew that was these folks are here that good yes so you hit that thing yeah so that gives you all the information on the house you just show see that double arrow up yeah if you click click on that double arrow up brings you back to the map now you can scroll side to side and then if you yeah that's now it'll it'll show you picture of the house it'll give you the address down here what the connection to the that's so cool that was probably one pretty useful tool my guess it do pretty accurate then um this over here that little menu so three lines you click on that subject right away now you come up with a whole bunch of different things so you can change your Bas map you actually you see that change your base map now now it's an actual image it's not so actually see the houses with the property lines what say so base map they have a whole bunch of different Maps so you can scroll through there look at all your Maps so this this one's kind of the Google imagery yeah um topographical map and then how do you get rid of this then you go back click that double arrow again then it slides that panel back and then you can scroll through it again oops this is sh y so you can see property lines are highlighted that showing the green thing is showing the address you typed in that lck right there the last one okay if you click back on that it'll go back to that house all your information back to 58 been there cool yeah over here see that layers button there on now you can go through all your layers with the um blood planes topographical map somebody was string but it's not this obvious oh that was that was the next that was this one they wanted this is the town property and they wanted to take take part of that to to halfway point yeah I remembered that one I thought that one was this one this is 56a and this is 56 oh there's an A and yeah this is 56 a well I gu I say I have no idea what this is be nice to find out well I don't think we're going to find out anything tonight gave to the guy tonight to what do you do in a situation like this where somebody doesn't show yeah well we can vote no be SC I'm certain I don't vote Yes because I haven't heard a thing and I'm still thinking I should get a picture so do we want to delay the meeting due to no show can we do that or is that yeah I guess why not I guess we have to sure so I have a question were the people that came in so they didn't have a problem with it is is their property line what they're voting yes okay so their property line is where the this is them here okay their their house is some goes like a foot from the property no yes they are they are the the butter on the side where the deck is so Chris the only problem with us doing this is this is the clock is ticking right and potentially if we didn't handle this before that time went up it would automatically be approved I think that's 90 days that was 70 but well yeah it it's more than more than two days that's for year right yeah it's more than it's more than two weeks which would be when this has this was 126 so been already 30 days and then so oh well so perhaps if we sent them a letter once we can get to Wendy and tell them that um if we don't hear from them at the next meeting scheduled such and such that we will vote no on it and because of lack of representation because otherwise it would go automatically right yeah December 19 okay the next meeting would be um February 10th I think that's that's that still fall into the yeah I think that's what we need to do not here after 20 minutes I think that's so pretty much settles that okay uh I'll make a motion to continue this public hearing until uh February 10th second second everyone in favor fav okay start um all right I'll why don't you quick just quickly describe uh well give give us your name and and uh and address and uh then we'll officially get started sure uh my name is Russell Varney address is 54 Berkshire AV South um right on middle Pond okay so why don't you just describe the uh what what you're trying to do here sure so um we are trying to build a deck in front of the property so if anyone's familiar with this specific property so on Berkshire a we have a a garage on the road and you have to go to quite a few steps um to get to the house itself and then so it's a 50 50 foot wide property and we're trying to put a deck on what currently Beach um that is surrounded on two sides by a retaining wall and then so that's on the house side and then the side parallel to the neighbor's property that's both retaining wall so we're trying to put it and use two of the sides to kind of put it in that area um we're a bit limited on Space since it is a 50 foot wide property um there's 20 ft already taken up by grass that goes up to the R taining wall like leaving us 30 ft and then we're just trying to use the rest of that space But still leave some Beach area um it's a two there's kind of a step down on the deck the idea is to make the the first step uh more of an area for a picnic table and then it's just one step down to an area that will have a storage bench and then ideally a spot that can hold like a solo stove or something like that so the the reason for the spacing that we have is the upper part hoping to hold like a picnic table so your standard size that's where that size is the way it is and then the lower part just so there's enough of a safe area so that we can have a stove and not be too close to it um it does go within our neighbor's property The Proposal instead of a 10 foot it varies from 5 to8 8 ft that's not a a range because we're not um because we're not measuring it's just a range because the deck would not be parallel to the property so it gets as close it would get as close as five and then goes out to eight okay why can't we do 10 so it's really the um kind of the the description that I was giving in terms of the size of what we're working with um um we're pretty limited on the deck itself and we're just trying to have enough space in that area you know for a picnic table um that would take up that top area and kind of takes up all the space there and then for that lower area the full depth of a a storage bench um we'll take up some of that deck that's about three feet deep um and then still having enough space to put like some chairs and a uh kind a solo stove there I appreciate all that but I still don't understand why you can't make it 10 feet you haven't explained that can't you shift the whole deck over oh it can't be shifted um so it's because because of the retaining wall it's a it's about a 4 foot high retaining wall separating the lawn from the beach area that currently there's just steps down to it so that 20 ft of of lawn that starts the retaining wall that is the driver of the start of the deck and it is more on the beach level than the retaining wall level does that make sense so so the the deck is only going to be about a foot higher than the beach which still leaves the deck height being about 3et lower than the retaining wall so everything's dri everything's driven by that that location of the retaining wall being 20 feet um from the other papers okay so I'm I'm looking at the satellite map here so if I'm if I'm looking from the water that area over to the left of retaining wall is is the lawn that you're talking about and then to the right of that white retaining wall is is this beach area you're talking about yes okay what white on the satellite image there's like this long white gang plank or something is that something that's still there or what is that uh let me let me P at the same time I don't know if it's a pier or you know a dock or oh or something oh yeah that's that's an extra piece of dock that we don't use um so it's not attached we'll be moving that we just don't we don't take it out the other I think it's 15 we don't use so that that's just something that's in temporary storage to get it out of the water oh okay that that that makes sense glad I pulled it up yeah is there is there any other variances that are going to be needed by conservation because I know they're pretty strict with the the Waterfront um to to answer Dan's question about the Conservation Commission uh I I don't know if you were there Russell at their meeting on November 18th but they they uh uh addressed your this proposed project and they they said that and it was approved by them uh with uh conditions of aosion prevention silt fence and straw bales during construction so they they to answer dance question question the Conservation Commission uh did not have a problem with the uh with the deck that that you're requesting yeah thanks for thanks for answering for me I did present to them um we had a couple meetings just to make sure they were clear on everything there were some questions in first time around and yeah it was the idea was um you know both approvals were needed so I just asked them if it was something they would approve contingent upon your guys's approval um and also like you said the self fence and hay bells which I've already had the contractor agreed that that he will do that assuming that it's approved or whatever vers [Music] okay well I'm guess this would be a concete peers to hold up um helical piles um so that it doesn't it's it's a lot less evasive um in the sand they actually can use it's almost like a hammer drill that they just drill these things down if you haven't seen them before I would describe them as like it's almost like a permanent augur that they're putting down okay I've never seen them but I I understand what you're telling me um okay yeah I think I added in one of the um I think in the form application there's a picture of someone installing one just to help give a description I know I give it to the Conservation Commission I don't remember if I include it my my zoning variance request but yeah I would I would describe it as a permanent AER an alternative to the digging that's needed for concrete col and how deep does this go keeps looking at an aerial view how do you oh I don't know the exact you mean the exact depth of the helico piles that's the actual yeah we're looking at a picture here yeah just the one we're looking at looks like his one handmade but other than that it's just like a like he's described like the contractor has someone he he doesn't actually do them himself he hires out a company that specifically does that service so it won't be him just you know doing with hand drill well that's you'd be surprised yeah my my dad's got a pair of them holding up a car for um and I know that they are well that's probably not a good example of that needs more than that but they're strong yeah B well we were just looking at I your particular situation I just this yeah this was the first picture I lo I looked at but there's there's all different styles obviously it's going to be I would imagine it's rated for the call them pilx ilal piles helical piles piles okay I'm looking here this is pile X on the drawing that you have so oh sorry that must be a tyo that was done by the dexer though I'd like to think that they know what they're talking about yeah they least make it sound like their name I don't see the depth anywhere but and I can definitely follow up on that and and send you guys something if if the depth is a concern um I know he would have the answer it's just not something that came up with the Conservation Commission meeting so I don't have it off hand what I'm getting at is could be that deep or it could be yeah well I guess I make the assumption that they that they know what know put depth to yeah put them in that would be more structures than so the uh says the elevation is 15 in that is that the height off off the ground the Finish deck uh yes okay that's on the big portion that's uh 10 by 16 yeah you're talking length and width yeah I'm just looking at the drawing yeah the 15 15 inch elevation is on the on the the right hand side of the the deck because the other one is up higher correct the left hand side is higher okay yeah the one left a little bit higher U it's just going to be step higher just like one step higher and then the rest of the height is getting maken up by the um steps that come down to that Higher One so it's probably three steps you can picture three steps um and then the top area and then going down one more step okay we'll build it to code if a railing is needed but the plans um the idea is that a railing won't be needed because of because of being only 15 inches is that it follow even fall off the deck into the s yeah I always thought that was kind of strange that that didn't have to have a railing was 15 inches or less but it just is that the code 15 yeah oh it's 15 yeah we've got two little ones so if it looks questionable but they're not walking too much yet one's only nine months she's not crawling that fast they got to have room for a lot of kids toys that's right that's what the storage bench is for you don't even have the stuff for it yet but we'll need it all right well let's try to I won't say sum this up but but get down into some details uh the bylaws is 10 feet and uh 5 feet is is is kind of pushing it a little bit a little bit too hard we we don't like to give any variances that are more than half of what the what's available there I'm I'm just trying to look at this a little creatively and and wondering if you could make the deck parallel to that property line I know that that's adding some complexity but uh um you know I I would be okay giving you a variance of three feet so you're you know you're you're 7 feet off the property line at the minimum and 11 at the at the maximum but uh I I speaking for myself I I think that that five is is going to be a little bit difficult to to get approved I'm I'll I'll let the other uh other board members uh give their opinion on that I personally I think that's a wise decision I mean five feet is there a fence between you and the neighbor not on the beach now there's a fence that we recently install the grass beach in the grass portion yeah okay down in the beach uh yeah not on the beach but I will say that the so the the storage bench that's on the edge that would would go alongside the neighbor line would be a storage bench with a back so it will be kind of a a naturally appearing fence from their side um again not trying to justify one way or the other just just try to describe for you what what that'll look like so you can picture a deck about 15 feet up a bench that you can sit on so that's another uh what is that foot and a half I think um and then the back of a of a bench so there is a decent height there that will give a border this just talking the 5T it's 5 feet but nobody knows beyond that because it's on the beach so you don't know if it's 5T 8 ft 20 ft Beach oh are you just saying because that like you feel the line would not be clear by the by someone's eye if they were just standing there is that what you're getting at yeah pretty much I mean you can't see a line because there's none no there's no a physical barrier yeah there I would agree there there would not be a physical barrier there would be I mean it would be since it's not a very deep Beach the the fen is on the line so it wouldn't be difficult to look and say you know that's the continuation of the line given that but um I would agree with you that there would not be a physical barrier which fence were you referring to um so we install a fence this summer on that grass line um so I guess I'm just saying if you were standing on the beach you would be able to pretty easily eye a continuation of that line of the fense again it wouldn't be physical but the house is so near where the houses are that's that's where the fence is up there that's why exactly okay how if you're looking at the satellite It lines up almost perfectly with that flag pole I don't know if it's obvious the flag skew yeah I would say it lines up with that tree I guess it's the okay right but it's my best gauge from the SAT so so somebody's messing around down there in the 5 foot area and going to the go into 10 feet the neighbors says get out of my property I would you argue that can you can you take me through that again I'm sorry so somebody is in that that 5 foot area that you're talking about 5 to8 ft whichever it is and people are playing with a ball and having a great time they're over in the neighbor's part of the beach where's the deck going right here so what happens if the neighbor decid retain right here not be happy with that what is this that's a i me a doc temporary doc so I think you would be able to give me a better idea of an issue like that um based on your guys' experience on the on this board with with zoning um for me I've always been in good graces with neighbors and and I know Andre and Linda very well um their grandkids have played with our kids are are two-year-old so I I don't really see a problem have a hard time with a hypothetical scenario I don't really see a problem but you know uh uh Linda and whatever may not live there forever who knows somewhere else yeah they take over just to let you know they were they were here earlier and we we got a statement from them they were in in support of it and then and we let them go just so that they didn't have to uh sit around and listen to I appr listen to time so you can you can thank them for for for making the effort to come because not everybody that uh is in favor of things shows up to these Mee meetings to uh to give us that opinion so yeah they are we yeah we got we locked out on both sides with our I say locked out because we're we're the last of you know both of on either side were there before us um so yeah we we definitely have some great neighbors but thank you for letting me know that I'll yeah I'll follow up with Andre L after all right well just just to get back to try to get a number here that we can we can get get an agreement on is I'm I'm going to suggest that we we give uh a a three-foot variance and then you're going to have to uh you know redesign your your deck a tiny bit and you know decide about your bench and all and all that stuff so I'm I guess I'm going to just get a an informal opinion from everybody whether they they they're comfortable with the with the three feet at the minimum because it the way that it gets larger towards farther away from the water it's going to be more than that so you the deck would be a minimum of 8 feet from the uh from the property line and a maximum of uh of 11 what's what's everybody think about that so that would me that would make the deck uh instead of 10 feet instead of 10 feet it would be 8 ft so three three foot variance is what you're proposing yeah on the 10 foot which would be okay yeah seven or eight yeah so you'd be you'd be seven seven off the property line at the minimum and and uh 10 at the at the maximum okay so instead of the five to eight we're saying seven to 10 so no closer than S feet within the property line that's that's correct I mean I honestly I think it's a very um it's reasonable I I appreciate everything you guys have brought up on stuff that I wouldn't have thought of you guys are more experienced on this so I would um um if it matters that I'm on board I'm on board with the with the change and I'm I'm sure we can uh we will we'll do it that way okay what do you think Paul so instead of being a 10- foot wide deck it'll be eight eight well he's going to be seven feet from the property line that's what V voting on so if he shifts his deck and moves it around he's going to be seven feet right yeah we'll take two feet off of it we can't shift because of that retaining wall so it it will just be two feet less okay in width all right um because of the because of the the size of a lot there's you need two other variances to make everything uh agree so we when we when we make a proposal for the variants that you're asking for we also include the ones that you you didn't ask for but but it uh it makes everything everything legal so I'm going to uh I'm going to make a motion to Grant three variances for 54 Berkshire Avenue for the purpose of constructing a deck a side variance of 3 feet a lot Frontage variance of 100 fet and a lot area variance of 32,000 ft that would that would bring uh everything into into compliance uh do I have have here a second I'll second that second uh all in favor I Mike I Paul I Chris votes I so that that's approved Russell thank you I um I really appreciate and also thank you for calling me um sorry I didn't get that notice um and I appreciate you guys it's flexibility yeah we were we were going to uh postpone things but then uh we said well want make the attempt to to call and uh at at the very least we' have a phone conversation which uh which we did um the way this works is we write up the variance uh get it to the clerk's office uh by the end of the week and uh then it has to sit there for 20 20 days 20 days has to sit there for 20 days before you're legally able to go in and and do anything I don't know what your schedule is but uh you need a little redesign on the deck so that that shouldn't be an issue so that after the 20 days uh they'll they'll release it and you should be good to go okay should I wait for a formal notice after that 20 days or just I I count the time um yeah she said yeah they'll they'll send out something that's it's stamped and said it was approved and and that they'll have a time stamp on it and then you can go to the building inspector yeah then you can go to the building inspector and show them that it's that the variance was approved conservation approved it and know and then don't he should give you the uh the okay okay perfect all right all right thank you all I'm glad we made uh made the effort to get in touch with you to save save us both a return visit so all right yeah you guys an extra meeting all right take it easy R you too good luck with the project bye appreciate it to sign the blank piece of paper Wy talk to on the phone tonight she um reminded me of that so I think Mike you Paul and I will sign that's just all that stuff on the pond packing stuff in there now are we still recording anything