of Sparta environmental commission meeting Thursday March 13 2025 the meeting is called to order at 7 o' p.m we are live in the council chambers at the municipal building and also live streaming at www
youtube.com backpart WP streams um adequate notice of this meeting was provided to the public and the Press on January 10th by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice um if everybody could please join me in
salute to the flag pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all thank you um roll call please Emily yes Deputy Mayor marjerie Murphy chair Kimberly null here Vice chair Neil sarne here Christine Dunbar here Ted
Gul Christine Rogers here Barbara kazala Landon teneri here Robert Otto here John gr here thank you thank you um approve do I have a motion to approve
the minutes of February 27th 2025 I have one one correction wait how many minutes are there there's just one right just one minutes yeah the February 27th one
right oh the last paragraph on page five before the motion to adjourn um I believe it was I who mentioned that I was in Texas over the weekend and I don't think Marjorie was there too okay but just for correctness
okay any other changes or comments or questions okay do I have a motion to approve the minutes with that change on page five uh Neil is the one who said he was in Texas I'll make the motion I'll second thank
you Landon thank you Christine all in favor say I I I I thank you okay tonight we have um a presentation which we're going to go right to now um plant This
Not That by Lisa chello um she is from I don't have your bio so you're from ruers Universe I'll let you introduce yourself even though I know you oh turn that one on I don't think it oh try that one now I got the big one
ruter Cooperative Extension of Sussex County thank you um so we're going to lower this and join uh everybody else in the audience over there so that we do not kill our necks um so we can see the
presentation it's exciting was me it says it's on while we're waiting for the tech show here I just want to let you all know that Rucker Cooperative Extension in collaboration with Sussex County Community College has a free
eco-friendly mini conference coming up at Sussex County Community College March 29th that's a Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to 12:30 so we have many topics about uh eco-friendly Care on home grounds so you would go to Sussex County
Community College mini conference website and register so they know how many people to expect it was warming up my apologies okay hang on let me just there you go oh I clicked sorry okay want me to
make sure it's going to roll yeah let me see if it works for you perfect okay right all right we're good to go so I am from rer gra extension and uh you can contact us we are extension from the
University and as the land grant institution in the state of New Jersey there is representation in every County so we are here to answer your questions and deliver educational programming like today today's topic is native plants and
the the title was plant this not that but I'm going to take you on a little journey that doesn't go stra there so we're going to start with the energy that provides terrestrial ecosystems where we live and that's the
sun now lucky for us plants can utilize that energy to grow and make their own food otherwise we all would not be here over millions of years those plants have grown on different
continents and they've grown along in concert with insects that are their largest browsers now I know when I say largest browsers you're probably not thinking of insects right now you're all thinking of the deer that keep eating things in your front yard but actually worldwide
insects which can get up into the canopy are the largest browsers of plants now those insects evolve alongside the plants and can utilize them as food not every insect can eat every plant and all those ecosystems are different from continent
to continent and from different ecore region to Eco region even from state to state so I have three pictures of insects here that I just wanted to give you some for examples so some insects eat the plant directly you see milked
bugs there in the first picture that are eating the milked seeds then we have interesting relationships between insects the second picture is actually ants you can see the ants but they are farming aphids the aphids are eating sucking the juices out of the plant and
then the ants eat their waste which has a lovely name honeydew so they're actually farming them and utilizing that as a resource and then in the last picture there you're seeing that's a spotted Lantern fly I thought you'd all be happy to see we have a native Predator that eats spotted Lantern fly
that's a wheel buug so insects are learning how to utilize these plants as food and then they in turn are the next traffic level in the food web there are many many things that eat insects that we're not even normally thinking of that
eat insects like fox eat insects birds rely on these insects even hummingbirds feed their young insects this is a huge protein Source IO Wilson very famous biologist said insects are the little things that run the world so again we're
doomed with without the plants we're doomed without the insects I always like to take a little side trip to the ones that we know for sure are beneficial to us so those insects that are eating the
plants that are evolving here are eating our native plants those are the plants that are native to this continent in this picture there's two bees do you all recognize those two bees those two types of bees do you know
which one is native and which one is not the one at the top is a honeybee they are not native to this continent now a lot of people want to help the bees and the first bee they think of is a honeybee right because we love honey bees because of honey why not right and
they're great pollinators much less welln is the fact that on this continent and even in New Jersey let's just say New Jersey we have 350 species of native bees our native plants do not need any other bees to be pollinated right
they've had these relationships ongoing so honey bees in that honeybee in that picture is at the top there uh it's actually on a non-native plant and the Bumblebee is native here and it's on a tomato so I found if you're interested
in plants that are great for bees there's a great fact sheet called supporting bees in your garden and on your farm but I also thought this was interesting and that you might enjoy this uh Rachel Winfrey who is an entomologist with of ruter did a recent study and
this was published in 2022 and this was in farms in New Jersey and in Pennsylvania and they were studying all of the species of bees that showed up at these farms and what they learned was that what was necessary was
that there be a vast diversity of bees that would arrive and pollinate the same plants and the reason why that was so important was because there are natural fluctuations in B populations so that in order for pollination to be successful there had
to be redundancy there had to be lots of different species to do the same service and this is true also with plants right plants can have a good year they can have a bad year there have to be other plants there for the rest of the creatures to survive so that diversity
means redundancy means we have a stable ecosystem so I mentioned native and non-native this is true for insects animal fungi algae plants and pathogens I like the word introduced when we're talking about species that
weren't here uh that we brought over or that got here usually it's by accident sometimes it's on purpose but it's never with bad intention and I always like to tell people this is an equal opportunity human expansion circumstance there are
species of plants that are native here that are causing problems in other countries too so it just it spreads all over the place now just because a species isn't native to our location does not mean it's a problem and I have a more information on that so not every
native plant actually provides more ecosystem Services than an introduced species does yet every single one is a different case in this picture here we have amsonia which is the blue flower which has native Heritage and the other one is Sweet William which is a European
species but it's not a problem it's behaving all right it's not getting out of control plants that actually do start to cause issues are called invasive species this is a label it doesn't mean the plant is not behaving in your yard it
means that it has been proven that it's out competing and causing human health agricultural problems and environmental issues so if you have a plant that likes to grow outside the boundaries in your own yard that's an aggressive spreader the term invasive
species means it's actually causing harm it's a label and if you're interested in I in a list of where you can find that information the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection has a website that has that information that's
current the reason I mentioned this is because invasive species are managed state to State differently and in certain States they're more uh particular about it probably because it has more damaging impacts
like in California some of the non-native species might actually have more resonance material or burn at a higher temperature which causes a wildfire expansion so it's obviously very dangerous and that is managed state by
state so where do you find native plants have you been looking for native plants where do you find them that I'm glad you said that they are in your local nurseries they are in your local nurseries the trouble is you see this I put a tag here if you don't
know the name of the plant and you haven't looked up its Heritage you don't know we don't label our plants in in a regular commercial industry except for their cultural requirements how big will they grow you know where should you plant them so you can see on this tag it
says Glamour Girl tall Garden flocks its botanical name there flocks panicula that is a native species but unless you knew that you you wouldn't realize it because it's not labeled that way so this is my lesson to you this is
how you find native plants you need to get conf able with Botanical names I'm not going to ask you to actually be able to pronounce them and you don't have to worry about that cuz nobody's going to double check you on that anyway but in order to identify
if a plant is either native or invasive if you know its botanical name you can use your favorite browser type in its botanical name followed by the word native or followed by the word invasive and you will be able to find that information unfortunately it's on the
consumer to look for that information it's not actually labeled on the plan but I get that because if the plants are being shipped in multiple locations they may or may not be invasive in New Jersey but they are in Texas and you know so it makes sense so this is how I teach this
lesson plants are named with their genus first and their species second so really I like to tell people think of it like if I were a plant it would be my last name first and my first name last I am shell the genus shell gen ology the rest
of my group right but I'm the specific one called Lisa I'm the species right so you can find plants that have the same genus but a different species just like my husband is genus shell species
Dan if you have a cultivated variety sometimes you'll see that little single quotation mark that means somebody was growing a plant and it had some fabulous attribute and then they so they kept propagating that one they named it and they kept propagating it usually by clipping so that it retains those
attributes if you see just a Genus just like Sherell with an X that means that plant has been crossed usually between two species so it will have a mixed it could be two native it could be one of each uh Green Giant arbiv is a good
example it's both our American arbiv and an Asian Arbor so you'd have to look at both of the species of its her to know so here's a good example both of these plants have very similar common names blood twig dogwood and red twig
dogwood but the plant on the left is native to Northern Europe and it has that cultivated variety I was mentioning see midwinter fire and the plant on the right is a native species now if you're a bird and you are hungry you're going
to shop at our native species cuz that's the one that's going to going to be covered in insects you're not going to go to the store that's likely to be empty which is the native the the non-native species so if you're interested in providing the next level of food
resource to animals in in our ecosystem they're going to have a much better chance of finding food resources on our native plants and if you're a chicky raising a clutch it takes about 5,000 caterpillars to raise one clutch of
chickies so you're going to hope that where you live has a lot of native species so I didn't want to take up too much of your time I'm just going to leave you with a couple of resources first off me and my trained volunteers happy to hear from you especially my volunteers especially when it comes to
plant selection they absolutely love those kind of challenges we do not do site visits but you can certainly send us pictures and emails and come and visit us at our little location on Morris turnike very close to the main branch of the
library if you're very interested in conservation I would say the Ladybird Johnson wildf Flower Center which is the University of Texas is a wonderful wonderful resource you can drill down to uh your state to your County uh trees
that grow in shade it's it's a huge database well funded has a lot of great resources if you're more interested in what I want to make my landscape look better and and I want a more simplified approach the Jersey friendly yards is a
great site you can actually do some design there and they've got also a lot of additional links out to other places if you're interested in birds and such but it's a little bit more focused on um lscape design and aesthetic then uh conservation and always the New Jersey
Native Plant Society but again that you can get you can get onto additional sites from The Wildflower site so if there's a plant there that you looked up that's of special need to bees it'll take you to the Xerxes site like it just
it's a big uh site has a lot of resources so if there's any questions any comments so if you're looking for a list of native plants for New Jersey the Native Plant Society has a list but it would be like uh spreadsheet that you
can download and it will include every native plant not not just plants of aesthetic value if you're looking for a simpler version of that then you could go to the Jersey friendly yards and there's a a drop- down list of plants and also that same uh Native Plant
database there from wildly. org same thing it'll give you drop- down lists it's nice when they have filters so you can say I'm looking for a shrub that will grow in the Sun that likes Sandy so soil and that's why these are great resources cuz it it takes out the uh
having to look up every plant that's on the list yes deer resistant native plants Ruckers actually has a list online I'll give you one more tip if you're any question that you have Horticultural question if you follow it
with a two words fact sheet it will pull up Publications from univers ities and doov sites so.edu and doov sites that are research based Ruckers actually has a landscape plants rated by deer resistance uh list that you can find
like a fact sheet list but I'm going to tell you that the best way to know what the deer aren't eating is to look in your neighbor's yards because different herds have different habits and uh that that's a real that's a real tricky one and the second thing I'm always going to
tell you and there's a nice little hand out here that has a great picture that shows that is plants when they are being transplanted go into stress if you think about it plants don't plant themselves that way we plant them that way they get planted by seeds you know they don't
Tippy Toe across the road and and sink the roots in someplace else this is a big stress for them and when they're under that stress they can't protect themselves so when you first transplant anything in a heavy deer population area it needs to be protected because what
it's trying to do is start to grow out some roots to support itself and it just doesn't have the chemical warfare ability to protect itself until it's established and when we say established that can be 3 years depending on the plant so there's a picture here of a new
tree that was planted that's got a wire fence around it with a steak and that is just honestly the best way to give the plant a chance so that even if it's on that list it doesn't actually have the capacity to protect itself until it's established there are some there are
some plants that the deer really don't seem to bother but as far as native plants are deer are native they recognize our native plants as food so a lot of the ones they're leaving alone are not native plants
sorry bad news yeah yes2 the difference normally you're going to want to PL the natives they're okay so that was a a good long question about what do you do uh if you want to provide habitat without providing a
problem right um and and what choices do you have there right so yes there it depends on what you're trying this is always the it depends depends on what you're trying to do but I would say it is always better for birds to be able to
take cover into an evergreen tree and to nest in an evergreen tree even if it's not a native tree as long as that's not an invasive species because yes they need that and cover is one of these things that you know you just hear but you don't really think about till you
realize that birds even little birds don't want to fly more than 20 feet because that puts them in the line of sight of being prey for another Critter right so you are providing a service by having that shelter for that bird and
they need that too but deer can deer brows to a certain height so part of it is letting some of those bigger shrubs and bigger trees get past the browse line and then once they've passed the browse line you don't really mind if they're eating the bottom
part of the tree if the tree is going to be 40t tall right so some of it is just getting past that initial part of allowing them to grow large enough so that they can sustain the Brows yeah absolutely and part of it is honestly the fact that we don't have any
large predators to move the deer on so they know your backyard better than your dog does they're just always there yeah for just mention right right yeah
so the populations are different from place to place but you can always this sounds like a great conversation to keep having you can always contact me and we can see what what circumstances you're under there are some plants that you know really do manage pretty well or manage recovery from brows faster than
others but it all depends on what you need the plant to do so that's a very specific conversation but I'll give you my card they don't Eber they'll eat milk weight yeah yeah yeah yeah and babies will try anything
they're babies so you you get a large group of babies come through and and you just planted something and sometimes they just pick it up and spit it out too it's really kind of rude yeah right and the next night and the next night and the next night yeah yeah it's
it's the repetition if we still had the you know the the big predators moving them on you remember that story that happened in uh was it us70 they brought the Wolves back in and and the water quality improved because now the all the herds had to be moved on so the native
plants are hanging over the water and all the native insects are it's just it's amazing that you know the combination of how how complex it is really how complex I would not I would not Hazard a guess on that without um they might work at it I because
they'll they'll work around every little Thorn on a rose bush yeah so yeah yeah yes ah so there's a rumor about a sterile version of Barberry going around in your neighborhood I I can't say I've come
across that but I can say that um calorie pair was considered sterile when it came over here and it cross-pollinated with other species that were close enough related and that's why that became a problem so even if we had
a sterile variety we'd have to wait a number of years to see if that actually works so no I haven't I haven't seen any success stories on that lately right so the hard part about that is um and the question is what should we encourage
people not to plant the hard part about that is you can still Source it and since um you know until New Jersey legislates not to you know kind of um little by little gets rid of certain species not being available for the Comm you don't can't hurt commercial industry
either right the commercial Horticultural industry it's not fair to just you know tell people don't buy that when there's all this stock that's been bred and and it hasn't been stopped so it would need to be stopped in a in a manner at this the state level in um when we look at invasive species the
problem with it is by the time we notice it it's past the point where we would have been able to stop it easily and then really the approach is not so much to remove it as it is to save the good places right so stop it from coming into
locations that are still relatively healthy because it may be past the point where you could actually remediate that and that's going to um but I I will tell people that they see things in the woods and they don't recognize them as plants that are still being sold the pricker
bushes that you run into in the woods are Japanese Barberry it's just in the shade the green and when they uh regenerate from seed they're going back to the original genetics of the plant so it looks different but just because it's not purple doesn't mean it's not the
same plant genetically right and we also see a beautiful beautiful sadly uh uous all over the woods too it looks pink when it's in the shade in there but we still planting it yeah so until it's actually taken off
the list as available you're relying on the consumer to know but your labeling doesn't tell the consumer what to know right so it's not really the consumer's fault it's not really the Grower's fault we just kind of have to look at it as a bigger picture and and work our way
through it little by little Rucker's product is education in research not legislature but we do do the research to to figure out what what the problems are yeah so we are asked for our expertise in terms of you know
what what are some of the bigger problems mhm no no I mean if you're interested you will because now you know oh okay that's how I go about doing it but you're right I I really don't think it's it's fair to to put that burden on the consumer but an interested Gardener will look for that information for sure and
it's it's a way to be an educated consumer in Li with the fact that we don't have other tools yeah absolutely so I think this is kind of something that people have to decide their own thresholds for when you're in a very high deer pressure area some of the only
plants the deer don't eat are invasive species it it can be yes it it actually can be but um I don't actually have a study on that that I could I could tell you but it is very funny cuz you'll hear across the state people talking about what gets eaten and what doesn't and there's always someone in the room says
well they eat it in my yard you know which is interesting so there's yeah there's a lot of a lot of variation good news is when we actually put up what's called an exclosure when we put up a fence in a natural area and don't allow the deer in the native plants out compete the invasive species because
they're used to growing in this community in these layers so they can grow in lower light it's just the fact that because the deer browsing out all the Bas line underneath her and leaving the invasive species that they have a better you know an unfair Advantage yeah so it's a complex sort of
circumstance and you know the deer were almost extrait in your jersey they were reintroduced but you know this is just a it's a complex issue I'm ask seen
ripped gu yeah so now the question is on deer fencing uh deer can clear eight feet sometimes even 10 uh so taller is better and certainly something that is made out
of metal because the The netting The netting actually can cause problems for a lot of wildlife if they don't see it and bear will walk like right through it right so that's just CU they don't even see it also in the winter time it it tends to fall under ice load so it it
doesn't you know doesn't withstand it so there are there are some I have read them too you know the fence goes this way and then you got one leaning that way and uh uh supposedly they don't jump the distance I I think really what happens is if you are in a deer run area
think of it like trying to reroute the traffic on Route 80 right I this is the way they've always gone so that's going to have to be a big enough barrier that they don't want to go that way anymore and there is truth to the fact if they
can't see over it then it is not safe to jump over it all right so and think of how tall they are they're they're not that tall right so are they going to stand up and try to Peak maybe but that is they're very they're going to hesitate to do that because there could
be a predator on the other side so that is a that is a really good way to stop them from you that they'll walk along it till they find a safer location or climb over the fence right yeah yeah bear is another story We a lot of
applications go through the plant that come in on the I've historically been always recommending native plants and going through the list um we're at the point now where we're talking about potentially compiling um almost like a a
cheat sheet for applicants as they come through like a recommended plant list do you agree with that strategy do you think we should have a set of either the top 10 shrubs that you should plant in this are
matal okay so the question is should there be a a list of recommended plants um and I hate it when I have to say it depends sorry it depends because the conditions the site conditions are going to determine whether the plant will
actually survive in that space it's the kind of thing that you really need the plants to match the site conditions I I I think if um as an environmental commission if if people are coming to you with a planting and all the plants are listed there certainly the plants
that you know are problems are the plants that you could say could you please replace that plant but what to replace it with is the harder question uh and also um just a little bit about from the Horticultural industry standpoint some plants are far
less expensive than others because they grow fast and they if you can grow it quickly and sell it then you make more money on it than if you have to baby at along for a very long period of time right so that has to be a consideration too you don't want to create a a burden where they're having difficulty finding
anything that is going to um work for those circumstances too so the question is if there's an introduced species but not invasive would you leave it alone and for me unfortunately I can't really answer that question because I know the plant right so knowing the plant I'd be like oh
that's a good choice right for that site and that location and and that application do you want to be able to see over it how big is it going to get how much maintenance maintenance is another thing to consider too on public property how is it being maintained
right because that's that's very important it you can't put a plant there that's going to require an awful lot of hand pruning because who's going to go there and do it right so there's it's like a broader it's definitely a broader question but I think a aiming at the
things that you want to phase out is wise and and you know simply make your list small but you know these are the non these are the plants we would prefer you to avoid right because that that's I think that's doable you know as long as
they come in with with something that's not the invasive list that you're concerned about oh that's outside my purview uh deer population question so I'm not sure who would even is that the Department of Environmental Protection I'm not even sure who would be managing uh that that
kind of a question you want to answer yes um so there's two things at the council level that we were considering we were talking about it just a minute ago uh one was having a call so um the township does own a couple of very large
swats of property and um we had to explore it at one point and we should keep exploring it again um having a set time date make it safe put up posters of our police force make sure that there's somebody playing in that place even if
it's Township own property and then getting some licenses from people that come in and call as many deers you can and do that over couple times to make sure that you eventually it might have an impact um secondly the New Jersey D does have a program that is free for the
municipality to come in and they will do an uh a study and give you a tailored Uh custom plan to manage your deer in your population something we had talked about exploring it never bubbled up to the we should do this Now list so um talk to
your councilman person and tell your person that we should um you should definitely consider that and um we'll try to make it happen um anyway those are two things that come to mind that um we could do locally here for controlling our deer population
in theeast but they have goods from that do I know the expense of that inter to yeah so the question was about U birth control of deer sure recogniz retired from Ruckers
Cooperative Extension and in Pay County uh the study with deer and deer control the stress of them being captured usually kills them so if that's a way of controlling them so be it uh and if it has to be something that's permanent or
you're going to wind up just as in a human having something on a cyclical program of um hormones but uh it they stopped that program because of the the death and the outrage of and the cost of
doing something like that it is yes and I understand that if one person wants to have a deer hunt or culling program the D will come in and investigate so I work with a garden group at Lake Mohawk and we're happy to meet with the township to
discuss things yeah yes yes yeah we're building it up again it I've just got 14 deer in my backyard I mean they're ninth of an acre lots they
eat everything they eat helbor they eat castor bean which is a poisonous plant do you hate your Congress person that white powder that's put in the envelope is riceing and it comes from a castor bean they ate every leaf off I expected
to see a deer dead on my lawn but no I don't know where they went it they eat everything it doesn't matter so I've got a really nice herd in my yard sorry to hear that yes some of the things they don't
eat growing for years have been to oregano there go I I have oregano thyme Sage chives and they all have flowers and they all attract pollinators but the deer haven't eaten them at all even the milk wheed I have growing they don't
haven't eaten mint mint oh yeah mint mint but that's a that's a pain when I against put it in a cement yeah trough yeah yeah yeah yes Mountain Laurel is a native plant yes yeah yeah and and part of you know
where where you are in the woods when you see Mount Laurel maybe that's not close to a deer run right so part of it is we we have so much great food for them to come and eat why don't they come they're come like that's why they're there because they've got lots to eat
we're planting it not intentionally but that's where the food is so that's where they come yeah sadly while okay what this program does it brings in interested families from a
municipality and helps them design their garden and it has this beautiful color pictures of all different types like shady
Sunny dry up against the house outs the street that they can SCT from and um they do this it's aam you can get certified to be
course so Dr abrupt with the the green infrastructure is actually our Water Resource uh department and agent and uh yes there's I anytime I am available to anybody to answer to inter as an intermediary and any of that uh when
people are putting in Rain Gardens and they end up with questions I have I have filled in for that I'm also a Rucker's representative but the the department the water resource department has its objectives too for grant funding in that sort of thing so I'm not actually in the
middle of that but certainly uh brr coer extension of Sussex County can always answer any questions people have you show us what your plan is and what they've made recommendations for and pictures from the site and we can help you figure it out absolutely I have done that before and that's that's nice to do
and and every site I I don't I don't want to make this it's annoying that I keep saying this but every site in every condition is different one of the things we constantly teach people is your your soils and pH suit plants that evolved
growing in those soils in that pH so those are the plants to plant there and the one thing I always want to tell everybody is any plant any plant doesn't matter if it's native or not that has been transplanted takes a while to become established it needs extra help
and it needs extra protection so it you know that people say oh native plants they don't need as much water that's not true of a native plant that is a wetland plant right it depends on the plant's needs and and whether you're matching
the site location and the plant together no more are we done this was a good conversation thanks guys that was fun oh let me just make my little plug little plug did I make my plug I think I did already but uh Sussex County Community College in Rucker squab extension March 29th eco-friendly
gardening for home grounds free program log on to Sussex County Community College and sign up thanks thank you yeah it's nice you have to come back again all the the unitin that we can like copy and paste
click this on YouTube and then post it on the social saying thato maybe you can teach em how to do yeah she was GNA try to figure out I can always screen record it on my phone that's usually what I do oh oh yeah or or I also pay for YouTube premum I can download it okay I get I
get Emily Landon knows how to cut the video so that you can yeah yeah all right so if you're uh watching online we're getting organized and uh just give us another minute thank you so much Lisa oh she
already ran out the door and while we're getting um situated again I just wanted to build off of what Christine was saying a couple minutes ago so that reference that she was talking about um is part of the ruter rain Garden manual that's available
online so if you just Google ruter rain Garden manual they have a whole list of native species but also the planting plans that you were talking about for shade resistant deer resistant um plants to help you as a
guide and it also can do a step-by-step process of how to build your own rain Garden so that'll be a good resource for you awesome thank you Christine all right everybody ready to move on to we have no applications
tonight um so now we're opening up for public comment Alex birdie I just want to say uh thank you for adding dear population to the agenda I really appreciate it and I think that the conversation that we had just now is uh very insightful um
very good so just want to say thank you um some other things that I just I thought about the last two weeks something to consider um our fence ordinance in the town is I
believe 6 feet high might be something we might want to look at so people do want to keep deer out of their yard maybe we could look into making it you know 8T um and um and yeah that's all I had so thank
you appreciate it thank you so much all right um moving on to reports we do not have Deputy Mayor Margie here so uh Master sub plan do you want to talk about that one yes we met
um uh earlier this was it this week or last week I can't remember um and we we reconvened um after not meeting for a while uh we have a new planner who wasn't at the
meeting uh we we just started going over the results of the survey and we're working on that right now okay great um Landon do you want to talk about trails sure um we're not going be able to talk about anything in too much
detail because of all the different stakeholders and stuff involved and I actually wasn't at the last meeting so Christine do you want to maybe briefly anything of importance from the meeting yeah I think it would be good for us to know that um we're moving along on
various improvements for our trails and we're going to be um we're well on the way of having the Yonkers uh parking area with a trail map oh nice yeah and U and so we should hopefully see that um
sometime you know very soon to guide to guide people uh you know at that end so that's that's cool have you had any more discussions about having an inaugural walk or like some kind of ribbon cutting when we get the signage
up well we haven't specifically um planned a a location to leave from but that certainly is a good idea we could have a meet at yoner see this Trail sign and we'll go for a short walk um for
families uh particularly on the Blue Trail yeah um in addition to that um we've done a little bit of um inquiries into working on the um Station Park to
high school Trail oh okay um along that area so we're proceeding on on that and we're planning a a a trail hike that the EC might be interested on regarding um the Iron Horse Trail okay okay um that
we'll all be invited to explore that okay so um yeah things are moving along as fast as they possibly can right yeah and and just briefly on that with the grant um I have up here that our final
reports du May um 31 first but but they've been great over there Caitlyn um has been very clear that you know just keeping communication let us know how things are going and they're fine with continuing extensions and and as long as everything goes well and they're excited to see what we come with to to finish up
that budget um that that leftover money if it's something with the remaining funds or towards maybe a general Green Team project so if anyone maybe has some ideas for that as well okay $200 so the yeah the cost of the site is
um actually $1600 6 $1,631 77 and it's a $2,000 Grant great okay thank you that that concludes thank you Kim can I just say something about
the trails I just want to confirm the trail survey that's due on the 31st has been posted to the environmental commission web page so it's easier access for everybody great great thank you and we have until the 31st to yes
okay and this is done by this the state not a Sparta Trail survey this is the state asking for right uh input okay yeah I think I filled that one out already um planning board that would be
Rob I had to call in to that one so I was just going over uh the notes on that so we had an application for the green and um they were looking to expand that uh they
were slightly over on impervious but very slightly so uh we just kind of had I think a pretty healthy discussion about um you know trying trying to stick with
uh the requirements for that specific Zone and uh they accommodated and um I think it was just like a 0.1% overage so um nothing really to report other
than we do have a new planner um so we're working through that and um I think that's it okay thank you rob yep all right um unfinished business so
um the land use Pledge is still in process uh and margorie isn't here tonight so I guess the ask is that um when this is brought to the Town Council that the that our
environmental commission Town council member bring it and be able to speak to it so this is still um getting moved forward but it's not going to happen real fast so uh marger and I will be connecting when she's back from vacation
and hopefully we can move that along um but we haven't heard anything back from them yet for our initial submission right no okay all right next item is Earth Day
celebration updates all right so we have approval now to move forward with our Earth Day fair so that's going to be a collaboration between our environmental commission and the Sparta Middle School environmental Club we're going to be co-sponsoring during the event on May
3rd from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. and it's going to be outside at the lower parking lot of Sparta Middle School so this week um I did reach out
to a number of different exhibitors so the idea is that it's going to be a free event tailored for the entire family um we will have an environmental commission table there um and the Sparta Middle School environmental Club will be
hosting a Kids Corner just like we did the last time um we hosted this event back in 2023 so that'll be stations um really aimed at crafts for kids eco-friendly information and then we're going to have a number of exhibitors so
so far uh these are the groups that are going to be attending our event so we'll have our environmental commission table and the Environmental Club table from the Middle
School uh walkill River watershed management group will be there food shed Alliance and the Poland scale Watershed Community are coming Aven Wildlife
Center the friends of the walkill river National Wildlife Refuge Sussex County Office of mosquito control the new Jersey Highlands Coalition and the Lake Mohawk preservation foundation so we have a
good list wow uh coming around and we're waiting to hear back from a number of people but it should be a good number of exhibitors and it's going to be a free event for the whole family so mark your calendars for May 3rd is everybody available for that I will be okay maybe we could send out an
email like the last time and if we want to do shifts again or something and yeah that' be fun though have you looked into any food vendors yet so right now uh Cara Johnson who's the teacher at the middle school who's helping us we're not sure if we're allowed to technically have food vendors on their site or if
that would require different permission but she was looking into if we can't have actual food vendors or a food truck then potentially having um the kids from the school sell snacks as a fundraiser for their different clubs so that's kind of the backup option if we can't have a
food vent but it's to be determined I'll get back to you okay soon on that she's checking when I when I tried to get them together for one of our for our last Earth Day event um a lot of them were already booked so yeah it's it's good to
get get in she was checking with the board office and was going to find out great thanks any other questions on earthday okay um speaker presentation schedule so that was today was number
three yes uh it's the first one we were counting Jenna though as the lead presentation category for sustainable Jersey so this was the one that fulfilled our first quarter okay speaker so we'll get one for April May June we'll have another
one okay and the the next speaker that we're talking about having is um a green Amendment for the future uh from that organization um but we need to know what the budget is did we ever get that answer Michelle's still working on it
okay all right so uh keep your ears open for any announcement about our next speaker um I'm sure we can find a different one if that one can't do it all right uh New Jersey salt watch update Christine do we have an update on
that or do we we we do not I spoke a lot last time so I thought maybe I would just cut it this time there's not really a a whole lot except for um you know we haven't had those typical opportunities
to go out before and after after the storm but if you have strips um please use them okay because we need that Baseline aquafer uh information um yeah I was waiting for a storm
until March 31st and there's nothing on the horizon yeah it it looks gorgeous you you I know it looks gorgeous darn darn but um but they do last they have
an expiration date on them so just keep them I would S Suggest out of light and maybe in your refrigerator or a cool cool place and you should be able to use them into the next um late fall winter season okay next year so thank you
yep all right um next item dear uh dark sky and lighting ordinance so we've been talking about this and um Everybody Was supposed to come today with some comments and I definitely have some oh you I
do um okay um and then I also have some thoughts about how we move forward with uh getting this to the rest of the uh the planning board or other boards that might have vested interest in it so
um the very first paragraph where where it says whereas outdoor uses of artificial light at night Alan I don't know if it's Allen or Allan often include inappropriate bright sources of light that cause an unsafe reduction and
hual human visual performance I think we should also add in there after that one especially why driving um would be my suggestion uh maybe we also want to add
and this is not exactly worded right uh as a number five there's no indication that extra bright light is an actual better for security or something along those lines whereas brighter or consistently lighted areas have not
actually shown to be to increase security I'll I'll share my copy with everybody um next page page two after applicability um there was a com the one of the comments is the date whereupon
all lighting must conform to this ordinance so I think we would want to and this isn't only for us I think to talk through but um talk to some of the other boards about what's a reasonable amount of time yeah like it's three years five years one year I don't know
think I mean the way I was kind of informally socializing this as it comes up in Opportunities with applicants where it's just like we would suggest that you know and if you're building new or it
looks like they're replacing or adding lighting that's a good opportunity to phase in yeah and so I think also if we could coordinate with the township talk to Mr zap and kind of see like what are the plans for when we update the
municipal lighting I don't really I'm trying to think of like what it is now but I just would suspect it's closer to 5,000 Kelvin yeah and so you know they're LEDs so they last forever and they don't cost
much however there's probably they also do fail and if you have a series of them there might be an opportunity where we could get that close to 2700 3,000 Kelvin and so we but we need to be ready just like you know
we're talking about like we're replacing T turf fields we need to have that ready to hand to someone and it's the same as native plants like just make it easy this is what we think you should do and then get by in yeah I think that's a good point LEDs
can last up to 10 years I think or something like that so but as they're replaced it's good um page three I think their definition of
nighttime hours could use a little work um because they're defining it as well at least this example of a ordinance sorry I gota find page three
where uh sorry nighttime hours um they're saying the time between 10 p.m and sunrise or 7 a.m. whichever comes earlier which page sorry which sorry
page 10 oh page 10 and if it's a night if it's open at night nighttime hours will begin one hour after closing so I don't know if we would want to modify that I kind of thought maybe two hours after closing or midnight whichever came
first or something like that yeah I mean I left a lot of this in so whatever yeah whatever we think but that's yeah okay I don't know if other folks have thoughts on that one now okay
[Music] um I mean my feeling is it should only be lit during operating hours if needed right and then yeah so that's that's another case where when we had
businesses that had modifications to their lighting plan it was can you change can you give some thought to intensity to Shield to color temperature and then to timers and then cross that with your operating
hours and you know what makes sense yeah um then this model ordinance so definitely want folks opinion on this piece was regarding the general outdoor lighting requirements and sorry page
five um the general outdoor lighting requirements are supplement to the rest of it and then they had three choices so you kind of had to pick uh which one we thought and one of them uh references a dark sky approved Outdoor Sports
lighting program um which I don't have a copy of so I my thought was there we just should get the copy of that before we make any decisions one way or the other so I don't know if Rob if you could get that or yeah I mean the sports lighting part
that's going to be a very specific application so I think yeah I can get a copy of that but okay in that case I think uh we would we would have that handy and provide it to probably the township and
kind of say you know for your field when you upgrade your Lighting on your field we'd like you to use this and then take that and say this is kind of the standard going forward if anyone has like a private field or private athletic
of okay right um okay then there's illuminated signage yeah well that's and and that and I added I included that option because that's something I'm looking at
to yeah I think it's definitely needed um one of the things that I thought was they talked a lot about um are the Billboards advertising Billboards illumination for off premise signage like including advertising Billboards is prohibited which is obviously not
prohibited in town um so that's not an option or the other option is illuminated off pre premise signage is prohibited from having line of sight to residential use zones so I don't know about that one and
I know right now some of the signs that we have and of course they'd be grandfathered in definitely have the lights pointing up yeah so number five is one very specifically uh that that I've that I wanted to make sure to include because it makes sense right you
don't you don't want to send the light up you want to send it down you can you can use less light you can Shield it better you can control it better when it's if you start to go around and you look at these signs like I am
um you know you're talking about driving and Hazards to driving you'll find that most lights are ground mounted and they shine up uh towards the sign and they spill past the sign into your eyes so it
it would and it wouldn't be a difficult thing to do I think that one the wording on that also just needs to conform with our existing you know you don't we wouldn't have internally lit but it would almost require like a design
standard drawing to show because you you could achieve this I think pretty easily and and this is the way to sell it to an applicant again is kind of take this look at it you you wire it up the post
and down with just LEDs with little a little diffuser and it's done and then and it's it the other nice thing and just pragmatic thing is when we have these heavy rains just think about it like the rain comes down it fills up these flood lights and then
it shorts out the light but if it's mounted above the lettering shining down you kind of have a built-in rain protection too and you can put drip loops or whatever you want in there to further waterproof it so it just makes sense from that standpoint
too um I think that was it and I highlighted the electronic signage because I left it in there but you know I don't um oh the other so okay so
thoughts on moving forward I think you've already been speaking to the planning board about this is that a true statement or no um no no I uh no because I think it needs to just be to have us take a look at it I I think this is
there's a lot that we could do in here and a lot of good opinions that we could provide uh and this this could be something that then we use kind of a as a template for some of the other ordinances that we've talked about as
far as the planning board um I've just simply made Common Sense recommendations to applicants gotcha you know in terms of operating only during uh having the lights only during
operating hours uh requesting the warmer lower temperature lower Kelvin lights if possible and and that's pretty much it but okay so one of the next steps I thought might be good is to um attend
the with the Chairman's um approval or chairperson's approval attend the meeting introduce that we're talking about it share a copy and start getting some feedback from those folks also and we can do the same with the zoning board um one of the things that they do talk
about in here which might be important for the subc commit master plan subcommittee is they talk about having zones for lighting also different Zone uh lighting zones so I was going to ask you Neil if you could also bring it to
that committee also I will do that okay um and then I'll reach out to the chair of the planning board and the zoning board and see it might be good to put on the agenda we certainly don't want a night when they're going to be reviewing
you know a bunch of stuff so definitely do we want to tweak this prior to that or do you want to go in okay so so I think if there's other modifications that people think should be made I I have one comment for the example formats
to align assign lighting zones um would it be appropriate for us to kind of make recommendations Now by by our zoning map and and kind of pointing out that these zones are are this and that because um we do have a variety of unique zones that kind of Teeter the line of mixed
use and residential non-residential all these things so maybe I think that can stem our discussion now talking about which zones should be catered towards maybe more or less and stuff like that so if you want to think about that I can
uh put together a table for the different zones and then we could incorporate just again like this makes sense Neil you could take you know we'll we'll add that so um yeah I think that makes sense because
we're going to have different design standards um for each Zone and in sensitive zones too residential or Wildlife sensitive zones we OB obviously would want to be more
strenuous with our recommendations versus our requirements but obviously that's something where we're going to need Planning and Zoning to kind of back up our recommendations because that's where I think the most discussion will come from this Zone should be this way
this Zone should be that way that so I don't know if I shared uh there was there was an alternative to this um that I got gotten that was not this dense um that was it was pretty
simplistic but uh it was it was more in terms of like human nuisance related yeah so maybe I did share that but I I thought was good and educational to like to provide some education to the community if they're trying to make
decisions about their their lighting but it didn't seem like this this professional yeah this supersedes that and you know that a few of those points could be kind of woven into the residential zones um just as rationale
but okay was was that the five lighting principles that yes no the five lighting principles goes with this uh it was about specifically about lighting nuisance and residential um it was a
great graphic I remember it's so it's not that though I don't did I send it to you guys seeing all right well it's sure I can send it as something that you guys could consider uh along with that but again
it's really just anthropogenic concerns so it's akin to kind of like noise uh nuisance and I think for our purposes as environmental we cover that and then
some right we're dealing with this will help wildlife and by the way it'll help humans too so I I would prefer to stick with this but it might be kind of good to take a look at it so if I didn't send it I will send it to everyone
okay all right did anybody else have any comments questions yet all right um next item deer population which we've already touched on quite a bit today but
um Dan had shared that we can get uh D in to potentially give us a study that will tell us um maybe what the best approach would be it's a free study that we could do so I thought that was a great idea they had previously looked at doing something like that and then I'm
not sure why but had not moved forward with that so at the very least I think we should reach out to D and ask them when and if they can come and do that so should we just decide do that I think we to do it can I make a motion then that we recommend the Town Council um look
into the njd community based de Management program yes I'll second that motion yep all right all in favor um and then I we I think we also need to look into the call possibility and what that might look like U maybe that's something that the D would
potentially um recommend so um we'll see what that that study says and then go from there um all right any other resolutions or ordinance discussions that um we had outstanding where's the status on the
tree ordinance what are we at that's a good question I think we have not heard back from the lawyer yet um so let me follow up with that one what about native plants that's the other uh Linda has has
that one and we need to um she has resigned so we need to get that from her okay so I just after tonight it seems like we might want to take a look at that I
don't know if everyone agrees but uh we can we can suggest they plant certain things uh what I heard was kind of what I thought which was if if it's
not invasive but it's non-native uh it might not be bad like we don't want noxious plants but I think for our purposes going forward I what I'd like to see is not just maybe that
native plant ordinance but um something that we we could some guidelines that we can provide applicants so that's I don't know if that's beyond the scope of what that originally was intended for but I think
that could be something that would be helpful for us to again engage with planning zoning and Town Council and say you know we we do this Patchwork of like we'd prefer you plant these so it sounds like we we kind of need to do a
little arm wrestling for what is that Master list of plantings um and then kind of come up with our suggestions put it together and then see if ruers can bless it and then
see if Planning and Zoning will adopt it right okay yeah I think that's the path forward are we talking about um like a tree commission type of a thing where we replace trees no that the tree ordinance didn't
include a tree commission okay where did I I remember reading about that about um suggesting that when a tree is taken out that another tree of a certain size and species that's in the ordinance that is with it's not it
didn't include an official like tree um commission it did suggest different trees in there okay so that's the same thing then it's within that one ordinance we're still working on that well the tree ordinance is separate from
the native plant one the tree ordinance um was we already the town already had a tree ordinance if you recall um they had asked uh one of the government agencies it wasn't the D one of the state agencies had asked
that all tree ordinances get updated um and so that's that's the one that is moving forward right now okay so we separated the tree ordinance from the native plant ordinance because there was a requirement from the state that redo it okay and so that's been with uh the
Town Council at this point all right I had a couple new business items um there has been a request to do a rain barrel um building exercise again or
um and so uh we just need to figure out what a good date might be and I wasn't sure if we could coordinate it with the Earth Day Fair somehow like do it that morning and then last time we needed electricity so
I think that's one of the key things to think about gynasium it might be a little much to do too much in one day okay yeah so we just have to see I'll check with Jenna black who's the um person who will be running it to see when her she her availability and then
I'll come back with everybody if everybody's interested and doing the rain barrel again my rain barrel worked out great um next thing I had is um April 6th is the cleanup um I think Neil you're doing it
not with the commission but I'm definitely doing it as anybody else available to do it on the 6th baggot Day bagot Day and if you don't know just let me know but mark your calendars we're going
to do the baggot day cleanup again and that's for Sparta e is doing that we're doing that or no it's not I'm the environmental commission is not organizing it um Mitchell Morris we're just being one participants
we're participants okay he's organizing it and we're participating all right and the other thing I had was April 24th I'm not here so are you around that day okay so I won't be here April
24th and that is one of the weeks of our meetings so all right um anybody else have any other new business I wanted to bring up spart to day I think oh if we could do that I think it would be good give us some
visibility what from what you just said about the rain barrel maybe we could do the rain barrel event there I think it's May 30th no
31 got the date but um is it that late in I guess so yeah and they decided to do it not in June this year um so I think it's May 31st um and really I think the only thing that would prevent us from doing
it is having enough folks that are available right that's we had that problem last year yeah so I think I don't remember who ended up going I couldn't go and you spent like the whole day Linda was there oh Linda that was fun though yeah it is fun
it's a lot of fun um so I guess check your calendars May 31st and then get back to us if you are available um and then we typically do have to pay I think um but we can look into that who who okay so that's what I wanted to ask can
we maybe recommend that all the sparta relative departments are in the same location CU that was an issue last year where we were kind of on our own it would be great for just the residents you walk down one row and all of the sparta departments are next to each other they it just makes there too with the police department and everybody else
so it just makes sense to keep us all together okay yeah if it's possible it's the junior Women's Club who organizes it and they have different um prices depending on what Booth you buy interesting so it might have been they bought more expensive Booth or something
too so but we can certainly ask all right any other new business I just had a question in light of now a new vacancy on the board what's the process for that now and how should we um our vacancies are directly appointed by the mayor not so like
notifying that now we have a vacancy does the Town Council know about this now and that they perfect mayor Neil knows that's all I have yep and so the first thing that we always do is look at the available applica anybody who's submitted an
application um what um boards or commissions they were interested in participating in and we go from there now everyone knows yeah everyone knows we have some openings okay anything else for the good of the environment or the residents of
Sparta good all right do I have a motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn thanks Chris second thanks Rob seconding all in favor I I I all right thank you thanks for coming good thanks for coming
everyone so who's the next speaker