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Welcome to the Township of Sparta Environmental Commission meeting. It is Thursday, July 9th, 2026. The meeting beginning at 7:04. Please take notice. Uh we are live in the council chambers at the municipal

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building. Um the stream can be viewed on our YouTube channel at www.youtube.com. youtube.comspartatwpstreams. Please take notice that action will be taken on the following following items at the Sparta Environmental Commission meeting on Thursday, July 9th, 2026. The

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meeting is called to order at 7:05. uh adequate notice of the meeting was provided to the public uh and the press on July 22nd by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice. We have a salute to

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the flag to the flag of the United States of America >> and to the for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. We have attendance. Please

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>> chair Neil Sourine >> here. >> Vice Chair Christine Rogers >> here. >> Christine Dumbar >> here. >> Barbara Kasula >> here. >> Robert Otto >> here. >> Alex Birdie. Councilwoman Margie Murphy. Nicholas Drado

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>> here. >> Thank you. Thank you, Courtney. Um, the first item on our agenda is approval of minutes from of uh June 25th. I had a couple of changes I wanted to

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see on page three. Uh, in the sentence that begins with Councilwoman Margie Murphy asked Chair Neil Sourine who he had, it should be contacted previously instead of contact.

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And then in the plant ordinance section, uh, the second paragraph down, chair chair Neil Sourine question, sorry, next sentence. Robert Otto uh responded he was unsure instead of

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response. And then in the paragraph above that that starts with Robert Otto expressed support. Uh the sentence that says chair Neil Sourwine questioned if Robert Otto was suggesting

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>> I think we need a rest of that line. what you were questioning that he was suggesting >> um the second paragraph first sentence similar I don't know it's a little bit chairman Neil Neil Sourine question if

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the tree ordinance was being worked on by Robert Otto and Barbara Kazulka had any recommendations so that's not I think >> let's put that in that was being worked on. >> I wasn't working on it. I think I had

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said Barbara I thought had worked on it in the past quite a bit and I was unsure um after I went to Corey Stoner for like a rewrite per state guidance or something. I was unsure what the status

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was, but I wasn't involved in writing the previous tree ordinance at all. Thank you for those corrections. Anyone else? Chris, are you do you have anything else? Chris, >> I don't. >> Okay.

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>> Um I I wasn't here, but I >> No other typos or anything. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um, >> do you want to add something to this sentence about your question? If Robert Otto was suggesting >> Oh,

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>> it just seems like right here. >> Yeah. I I >> Right. that what were you asking him? What you suggesting? Right. It's a little confusing either. >> Makes Yeah, I can. >> Right. I think my intent for the native plant ordinance, my intent was uh prior to

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getting into a native plant ordinance that we should advance the tree ordinance first to achieve compliance with MS4 storm water requirements and that once we had the ordinance framework established for the tree ordinance, then

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that could provide the further guidance um which is I guess all there Um and I think chair Neil Sauine question if the tree ordinance was being worked on period. Um, and I would strike on by Robert Otto and

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Barbara Kazulka had any recommendations and then >> I don't I mean >> then it's then it's like how do I fix all >> I wasn't here but we can delete the next two sentences too. Yeah, >> we can delete the Robert auto response

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and then the next sentence until the Robert suggested. >> I think so. Chair Neil sour wine question if this should be tabled. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Um >> so the so strike on by Robert Otto and Barbara

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Kazulka had any recommendations. Strike Robert Otto response was unsure since he was not sure what Cory Stoner had found out. And then um >> maybe strike just whether it should be tabled and then then Robert suggests

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temporarily setting aside further development um until the tree ordinance is finalized and available for review. Um I would strike it was noted and just say

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once the tree ordinance is I would just say available for review and as it as it may serve as a template for developing additional guidance relative to native plants and shrubs. So Neil, I think you asked Courtney if the

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tree ordinance is being worked on. Yes, I suggested setting it aside setting aside the native plant ordinance until the tree ordinance is finalized as it might serve as a template for

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developing additional guidance and then I guess that's >> yeah that that makes sense because uh >> because this is under the native plants. >> Yeah. whole group. So, yeah. >> Yeah. But but the treaty ordinance itself is under the MS4 permitting which

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is what we're >> we're finding >> we're waiting to hear from. >> So then should >> Yeah, I agree with your suggestions, Rob. So, should we strike the native plant ordinance uh heading as well and just

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have it all be under tree ordinance or do you want to keep them separated like that because then we kind of drift back to tree ordinance a little bit? >> Yeah, I I' I'd like to keep the tree ordinance uh specific to MS4 and native plant ordinance is a separate topic.

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>> Okay. in regards to Minnesota. So, we good suggestions. Okay. Um, so I guess if that's it, uh, >> I'll make a motion to accept with those

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minor changes. >> Thank you. Can I have a second? >> Could you please go over what those changes are again? Are you striking everything after the first sentence and just putting in things relating to the tree ordinance?

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>> So presumably you have you have all of this, Courtney, right? But but uh Christine, if you're asking page three, the the big thing that we were correcting was page three, second paragraph under native plant ordinance.

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It starts with chair Neil sour wine question if the tree ordinance was being worked on. Um period. uh Robert Otto and then strike everything until Robert Otto suggested

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temporarily setting aside further development until Oh my gosh. If you're focusing on the tree ordinance, I just don't understand why you're talking about the landscaping and you know gradating to plant lists and everything. If we could just keep it to

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>> Well, this is the minutes. We're not discussing this right now. We're trying to get the minutes correct. So what happened was we briefly touched on the tree ordinance and then we went on to the native plant ordinance and the the discussion again to the second paragraph

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is the chair asked if the tree ordinance was being worked on. Robert Otto suggested temporarily setting aside further development of the native plant ordinance until the tree ordinance is finalized and available for review. strike. It was noted that once the tree

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ordinance is obtained and then just keep it may serve as a template for developing additional guidance related to native plants and shrubs etc. >> Yeah. >> There's a relationship with those two ordinances. One, the tree ordinance has

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to satisfy our MS4 compliance, which we're not compliant with, I believe. and the native plant ordinance I don't think requires such MS4 compliance but it would make sense to borrow the formatting and the style from the tree

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ordinance but we need to finalize the tree ordinance and get compliant first and then basically take that and tweak it to native plant specific >> well that would be the preferred order

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certainly So I'll again make a motion to accept the minutes as they represent the discussion. >> Can can we go back to this paragraph? >> Okay. >> Right here >> the um right under native plant ordinance that first paragraph.

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>> Yeah. >> Where it says Neil Sourine questioned if Robert Otto was suggesting. Do we want to strike that and just make it? Um, Robert Otto expressed support for advancing the tree ordinance in order to achieve compliance with the MS4 storm water requirements. He noted that

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establishing the tree ordinance framework could also provide a basis for future guidance related to shrubs and other plantings. Robert Otto clarified that once the tree ordinance is right. Does that make sense or do you want to have the >> No, I mean you're right. So you're

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saying strike chair Neil Sourine question if Robert Otto was suggesting but Robert Otto clarify the I mean I might just >> right it's either clarify what Neil was asking right or it's strike that beginning part of the sentence and start the sentence with Robert Otto clarified

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>> okay >> right >> yes uh but then really does my support for advancing tree ordinance go into the section

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above. I don't really care, but that's why I was trying to combine them. >> Yeah. >> Because it it kind of starts with tree ordinance and flows into native plants, >> right? >> Um, so >> we know what you're trying to do. Well,

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and we're it also has to reflect the the minutes as to how the discussion went. So, >> it's just a little sticky to rearrange things now. >> It is because this is under the heading native plant ordinance and >> Right. So, here's the question. I didn't watch the I didn't watch the meeting,

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but did you discuss the tree ordinance under the native plants ordinance? >> I think we started with the tree ordinance and flowed into native plants, which is where I might just >> Yeah. Which makes sense because they >> they relate. >> They Yes. So, I might just say strike the native plant ordinance heading

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>> and uh change tweak the uh heading that says tree ordinance and say tree ordinance and native plant ordinance. >> Yeah, I will. Yeah, maybe let's do that. >> Yeah, that that that's a better >> and then that satisfies all the striking and

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>> I think >> and suggestions. >> Yeah, I think that that makes sense. So, so with that clarification on unfinished business, page two, tree ordinance and native plant ordinance strike on page three native plant

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ordinance heading and all the other uh changes remain. I'll make a motion to accept with those changes. >> I have a second. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> Wait, can you second? You weren't there. I cannot second. That's right. I was not

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there. >> Yeah, >> I'll second. >> Um, thank you, Christine. Uh, and I have a uh All in favor? >> I >> I >> I >> I'm going to abstain. I wasn't here.

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>> Thanks. >> I don't think you can even abstain because you weren't here. >> Minutes are approved. We have no correspondence. We have no applications. Uh public comment. Hi.

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Do you have anything to say? No. Okay. Thanks. Um reports start to my left. >> I have no I I don't have a Well, I guess I do have a have a report

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um for the planning board. Um what we did was is for we looked at the master plan consistency for uh data centers and also for the PDRM1 and PDR M2.

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So so that was um our main uh goal. >> Um and there was much discussion about um the sizes of buildings um and how they could possibly impact the environment there. and also the traffic

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and also raidables. But all in all, I heard um by reading the minutes um what the town council decided was to put a maximum limit of 75,000 square feet for both of those um

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areas, which I think is personally I think is a a very good idea. Um it because in looking at the map of the those areas um they actually provide the

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opportunity for a um some sort of a wildlife corridor to still exist that feeds right into the preserved area um in the highlands. Uh anyway, that's just my personal uh opinion. And I'm I'm glad that that was

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uh you know voted on by the town council. I think it will help us with um protecting the environment. >> The other thing >> on that before you go on so that's 2612 right?

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I think the ordinance. So I'm curious you're the environmental liaison to planning board. I think you voted that it was inconsistent with the the master plan which favors I thought rural character and open space. Can you

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explain why you'd vote against it? >> Was that the second vote? >> 2612. Yeah, >> because I didn't understand. I voted incorrectly. >> Okay. Can you No, I think that's important. >> Okay. So, you didn't under What part didn't you understand?

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>> Um I didn't understand that. Um, I was voting on the um just generally um what I was voting for. I was hoping that it would be a reduced building size, but in

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part with the review um that I was reading, it seemed like um they were taking the opposite position. So I so I voted because I >> Okay. So, >> because I think it was 10 o'clock at

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night and there's a lot of discussion. >> That's fair. I'm just I think it's important because I was surprised that you voted against it and I think it's important to get it on the record. Um because there may be an impact. So, so what

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could be fixed to make it easier aside from it was 10 o'clock at night, but was it um because I know how it is, right? You're on the day and you get >> what? Hi, Marie. What I can do is I can go back and listen to that discussion that preceded my vote.

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>> Yeah. >> But was it how the the attorney framed the the vote or was it how the planner? >> I just felt like it was it was very rushed at that point. We had had a lot of discussion, you know, going back and

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forth and concern about ratables and all of that. And then um the it was just the way that it was phrased uh was confusing by the attorney >> by uh by the township attorney >> by the township that was wasn't clear to me

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>> because sometimes they say a vote for this is this way and so so you meant >> it's very >> all right. So, so you meant to vote in favor of capping >> consistency

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of with the um 75,000 square foot size of the building uh was consistent with the 1984 master plan. But but you voted that you voted

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in agreement of the planner report that a cap on the a 75,000 square foot cap was inconsistent. So but you voted that >> consistent and inconsistent. Yeah. No, it's it um All right. It is

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it's consistent with the master plan. >> What is consistent? >> The 75. >> So your so your vote should have been against >> Yes. Okay. I just want to get it clear because >> and I didn't realize that till I was walking out and I was talking to the

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chair person. I said, "I think I voted the wrong way." And then she tried to console me and say, "Don't worry. The vote went went the right way." No. Okay. But it didn't. The chairperson of what?

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The planning board. Okay. It it went in favor of it it went not in favor of a cap of 75,000 square feet. You understand? That's what I'm saying. So you voted

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uh not in support of the 75,000 square foot cap. So the chairperson told you it's okay. You voted with the majority, but the majority said on the planning board that they felt that a cap of 75,000 square feet was inconsistent with

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the master plan from 1984, which protects the rural character and open space of Sparta. I just think it's important to get on the record. I'm not trying to uh it's just important. So, >> it's very important. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

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>> And I because I was just surprised, but >> So, yeah. So, so luckily town council um disagreed and and said that >> that yeah that um that the planning

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board um vote and so it sounds like the planning board actually had one less vote. So you would have you would have been a second vote um in favor of the ordinance and finding that the ordinance was

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consistent with the master plan, not in favor of the planner for the planning board who determined that limiting the scale was inconsistent with the master plan. I know it's very confusing. No, no, I know that she was

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very concerned about limiting in her in her review. She seemed to really bring out that, you know, it's it's really a balance. It's really a balance that we need to um >> achieve and that you know um that that

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may affect the traffic and that may affect the um you know our ability to acquire you know more ratables um and she seemed to emphasize that.

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>> Yeah. But your personal feeling that you stated was that >> I st my personal feeling >> um is that um in order to I think protect the environment um and reduce imperous

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uh coverage and to keep the neighborhood and that zoned area as residential like and parklike campus like as possible. that the size of the building um is very important. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> Thank you for drawing that out. >> Thanks, Chris. And it's perfectly understandable to to misunderstand something, especially at 10 o'clock at night when you've been in a three-hour meeting.

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>> Thank you for your sympathy. >> Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just trying to understand because I'm like, what? But you just said, "Okay, so thank you." Also perfectly understandable. >> And unfortunately, we should have put that ordinance through quite a while ago

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because it was there was no cap when four, five, five years ago >> years ago. There was >> and then the 75,000 came in after >> the diamond chip warehouse application came in.

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>> Well, is that true? There then there were and then there was a 175,000 square foot cap and I looked into this in advance because we were doing the whole scale and intensity. So that's why I wanted to find out Christine what what

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you why you were talking about this. Um, and I was trying to get the basis for that 175,000 square foot number. >> There was there wasn't a basis. So, the the closest I got, which was pretty recently, and it was after I provided

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the scale and intensity ordinance final draft um was I think Techflex is somewhere like low60s. >> Yes. >> Um, so again, I assume Techflex didn't exist in 1984.

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Um, if we're trying to preserve and protect a rural character in open space, it seemed to me to be rooted in like the built reality, the current infrastructure to say if you have

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something around 65,000 or 75,000 square foot as your cap, that's your big, you know, then you're not creating a situation where you have grandfathered um non-conforming structure. that are larger. So, versus the 175, I'm like,

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where'd that even come from? So, >> I don't know. >> And and I think like just with professionals, if I had been there, I might have asked the question to um because the professionals, right? I mean, they're

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we look to them for their expertise, but they're representing Sparta, but they might be representing more infrastructure heavy or more paved over um towns like Parcipony or something like that. So

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yeah, I think there should have been maybe more conversation on planning board um rather than just simply >> it sounds like it was confusing anyway, right? So >> confusing. >> 1965 tech flex,

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>> but I think that they did they um the company started in 1965, but that was in a a smaller location. Yeah. in Sparta over kind of where Father John's Lane is, I believe. But um and now they have the other >> right. I don't know when they

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>> larger one. Yeah. But anyway, >> yeah. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Christine. >> Oh, I just wanted to there was something else I was going to mention. Um because

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um we all I think we reviewed the application a couple years ago for behind the Burger King area and that um another it's not Flesh Holdings anymore. It's another

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um company that has taken over that project, but they're having delays in getting the permits that are necessary. And so they asked for a year extension that was granted because I've had people ask me, um, when are they going to start

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building? Are they building something? >> Keep asking. I don't know. I don't know if it's because they couldn't get the permits or they just keep asking for a delay. >> Oh, well, we don't know, but they said that they they testified that they couldn't get the permits for certain things for sewer and all these other

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things, and that's why we granted the year extension >> just the other night. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Do you know what other permits besides >> I do. It's somewhere in my notes >> because they they did start to dig so that they could keep like some months

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ago so they could keep their application >> going. Um >> um somewhere I had jotted down. Oh, here it is. Okay. Um the outstanding approvals are as

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follows. Um the Sparta Township uh water and sewer department, Sussex County Planning Board, NJ do minor access permit, and the NJ D treatment works

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approval. They are trying to get these permits in good faith. >> Those aren't ours. >> That's what they So that's >> but that's what they submitted to us. >> Um the reason why um you know they

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wanted the extension. >> So you guys voted on that. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Any reason given why they are having excuse me having difficulty getting the permits?

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>> I don't know why they're having trouble. I mean, um, >> wonder >> permits are tough from what I understand. >> Yeah, of course it's dealing with paperwork and bureaucracy, but

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>> and they, you know, they did verify that um there were not going to be any changes to what um, you know, from the time that we approved the application. It's just that the permitting was an issue. They weren't asking for any additional waiverss. Um,

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so yeah, good. Thank you. >> Hey, thanks, Chris. Uh, Margie, do you have um say >> about the council? Um, nothing other

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than we did pass the ordinance to limit the the 75,000 square feet 75,000 square feet of warehouse space in the ED PDRM1 and PDRM2. >> Yeah, that that was in the notes I think

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in the minutes. >> So, >> yeah, >> that's all I have. We won't have a meeting until the end of the month, >> right? Yeah. Cancel the next one. And we end up only one meeting in August, one meeting in July. >> You also passed the data center

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ordinance, correct? Was that the last meeting? >> Correct. >> So that was that a size specific? >> No, it had to do with No, it didn't have size. It was Well, it can't be over 75,000 square feet, but it was uh

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intense its intensity and and purposes. Well, yeah. Definition based >> definition. You you did the what I just gave up on which was but but probably you had a lot of help which is define what even is a data center. >> Correct.

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>> And and you carved out some of those concerns that I I had which are like telecom and uh secondary uses for data intensive things that wouldn't make it a primary use data center.

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Um I do have some sad news. Um and that is is that from the trails committee um we had applied for the county grant um to get us started with the Iron Horse Trail that would directly connect us with the

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Pollenkill Valley Rail Trail which is 27 miles long. um be there and we did not get that grant, that $25,000 grant. So, we're having a meeting in a a week or so and so we'll try to look for

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other grant opportunities. >> We're not having good luck with grants this year. >> No, this isn't our year for that, I guess, but you know, the pendulum swings, so >> get ready >> because of u what's happening. Everybody wants grants

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now. So, there's intense competition, I guess. >> Yeah. >> Uh, nothing else, Margie? >> No. >> That's it for reports? Oh. Um, the master plan subcommittee will be meeting

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um on this coming Monday to discuss new elements that might have been completed and goals. Okay. Um, moving on to unfinished business

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MS4 permit. Courtney, do you know have you gotten any response from um our engineer about the MS4 permitting? >> No, I did see him this week. He asked me to send him the pre the current tree

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ordinance. Just see where it's at cuz I know he's not a fan of what it is right now. So, he wants to relook at it. And I told him you guys were asking, but he'd get back to me. That's all I know. >> He's not he's not a fan. >> A fan of it.

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>> Yeah. Like he wants to fix it up. But >> was that the this the state uh or the suggested tree ordinance? >> Not a fan of the state ordinance that was suggested that we >> adjusted slightly. Not a fan of what Barbara did or not a fan of the what the

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state's asking for. >> I got to go. I have to >> But he needs more time. >> Yes, that's what it is. He needs more time because something >> and anything else about the MS4 permitting that's that seems to be overdue.

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>> No, not that I know of. I just wanted to say that that is one of our as an an environmental commission, it is one of our uh duties to keep keep up to date and and keep the township up to date on NS4 permitting. So, we're

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>> Could we Could we like ask that prior to the next meeting, could you ask that he um give us the tree ordinance or his issue? just like a blurb about his concerns with it prior to the next

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meeting as well as um is the MS4 requirements. >> Yeah. Status MS4 status. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Was that an email or a >> for >> discussion from >> I I mean I did send him an email with

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all of you guys attached to it asking for an update, but I saw him in person cuz he didn't he's been super busy. So, his emails are going through a lot, >> but he didn't give you an email back. >> No, not yet. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks, Courtney. Um,

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>> so, >> all right. All I'll say for the native plant ordinance is I think it should follow the tree ordinance, which we just talked about. So, I would suggest that we table that and wait until we make some progress on the tree ordinance. >> I agree. Okay.

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>> Uh, okay. We'll take that off of unfinished business for now. Then, uh, moving on to the environmental resource inventory. Um, sorry Courtney get a chance to write.

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Um, did you have did you have a chance to reach out to our grant writer about uh getting additional funding from the Highlands Council on our Environmental Resource Inventory?

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>> No, but I can I can reach out. Do you have I have to find her email because I don't think I have her email. Yeah. I'm not >> I might have to ask Michelle >> Grant writer. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I I

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don't have it with me either. >> I can ask Michelle. She might. >> She knows it. >> Yes. >> And um there are possibly possibly other grants that we might be uh that might be

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available to us. Okay. >> So, um I'd like to engage our grant writer a little bit more on that. >> Yep. >> I'll try to come up with something. I find >> once I get her an email, I could send an email out to her for us.

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>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Next next item on unfinished business is artificial turf. I don't know who was working on this. Um I know we had discussed

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different aspects of this. Um >> Mark Scott, >> not with Mark. >> Was was he working on this? >> He wasn't working. >> It's like I don't know if he'd like to chime in. >> It's like Mad Libs. Maybe he could tell

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us his thought on artificial turf. So, I think I had gently asked uh and I was I wasn't any better on this that uh for artificial turf that if we could all look at this issue. It's been in the news with the World Cup. Um and it's

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some it it's something that we need to prepare for. Um because the last time we got artificial turf, it was because we didn't have a plan to get natural um grass established in time of the ball

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fields being used. So, we need to figure out um if we want to advocate for natural grass and if we do, we also want to figure out um what is the plan for disposing of the

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artificial turf no matter what, even if we're replacing with more artificial turf. And if we're switching it over to natural grass, um do we do we do any kind of um remediation, I guess, would be the

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question. And who's responsible um for that? And I think we also talked about not using open space funds in the future for purchasing plastic grass. >> How long do they last? >> About seven years. years. >> I feel like 10 years, right?

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>> I thought it was like seven. >> Yeah, but they >> between five and 10. >> It depends on the usage, you know, how frequently the fields are used friction and everything, >> right? And I think they do exist longer than seven years in in practical in the

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real world. Yeah. >> But then presumably as they age, they probably become more fryable. So, at what point do we say, "Well, maybe >> these short little kids are running on that >> plastic grass and it's it's falling

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apart because it's older because UV light has broken it down and now they're breathing it in." Like there there's probably a point where we're like probably not the best. Right. So, >> right. And I I'd like still like to know if we have replaced any any uh plastic

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grass fields that we have currently in the township. and uh what that cost might have been or was projected to be. Maybe we could some kind of costbenefit analysis on uh >> yeah that I I we talked about this a

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couple of years ago. We went went into it and there's needs to be soil remediation. Uh you have to have the soil tested and pay for soil remediation um before you plant natural grass. But

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that's worth that's worth doing. I think we all kind of where the cons but that's that's a cost. >> The disposal proper disposal uh is a cost. >> Um >> but those costs were probably based on

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like the crumb rubber infill with heavy metals. >> Yeah. >> Right. But now we have PAS is you know the forever chemicals and all of that to consider which I don't know years ago was were we even talking about that? >> No, we weren't talking about it but they

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were still there. They were there. >> I know they were there. So there so they're there and now you know anal analytical methods are you know were there where we can look for them. So that's a whole other remediation step that we have to account for which is why it's pretty frustrating that they were

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installed recently. So when they installed the onman field let's say like did anyone did any kind of projections how long it's going to last like whoever was installing it. >> I remember when it was installed but I

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don't know it was like three years ago. I remember Dan Dan Cherella's comments about how it smelled when it was freshly installed. >> It was la just last year or the year before. I think >> um it was before I got on.

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>> Yeah, cuz Dan was on and he was talking about like it smelled like Yeah. >> Yeah, I know. >> plastic when I walked past it in the heat. >> Yeah. >> So, that was that was two at least two years ago. >> Yeah. So the plan was to install it but no one

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had the plan when we will have to be changing it when we'll have to be removing it. >> This whole make polluters pay and you know cradle to grave. I don't know but that's what we need to backfill that I think. >> Yeah. >> And I also intend to bring this up with

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a master plan subcommittee. >> Oh good. >> Yeah. Now would that fall under the recreation department at all? Would they have looked into that because they're the ones that probably were asking for it? Uh I would think or a big part of

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that decision making process. >> Good point. Yeah, it's probably >> and and we would need to know the reasons why they selected that or preferred preferred that to natural um grass. The only thing I heard was is

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that the people who were involved in selecting uh the artificial turf wanted to be competitive with uh other teams in the area um because they were all going to to artificial turf, but that's not

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necessarily a good reason at all. >> No. >> To do that, plus the injuries that you know and the heat um that's generated from that. Uh Yeah, I still have a vision of my granddaughter playing on the field over um in Station

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Park and it was so hot out and there was that artificial turf, you know, there that really added to that. The kid little kids were sweating and it was just painful to watch them play on that

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field and slip and slide and sweat. I'll see if I can find that out. >> Thanks, Margie. You're welcome. >> Or can you at least find information regarding what exactly was installed? What's the the profile of that? And

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>> what's that? Like what's underneath? I don't know if our if the um >> Jim Zep should know, right? Can Courtney, can you uh find out from uh >> between >> Yeah. Manager Zep, I think like maybe three years ago, uh we got artificial

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turf installed, >> but there was some before that. >> There was another one before that. >> Yeah. Yes. >> White Lake. >> Yeah. >> And Station Park >> was before I think was the last one. Right.

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You remember? >> No, I know. No, but did you play on them? Didn't we say something about that before >> on the turf? >> No, I'm asking Nichol. >> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Looking at me. >> Didn't you play on them, Courtney?

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>> Um, no. I I haven't, but I just remember hearing I just remember hearing about being installed. I I've never been there or anything. Um and I remember I talked about the football field at the high school,

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Sparta High School. Um the turf field and they when I when I was at the high school, I mean, you know, just graduated senior year. Um it was turf. They didn't replace it during my year, I don't think. At least not while I was there.

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Maybe over summer they might have. And I know I asked my older brother about it and he said during his freshman year they either I think they replaced old turf with new turf but

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that's all I said about that. Yeah. >> Yeah. The school has one that has they have replaced an artificial turf. >> Yeah. They've had it for maybe I mean about 10 years I'd say then

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>> right >> I know the softball fields were not artificial they were grass >> at Sparta. Yeah, I'll find that out. >> Yeah, that's that'll be good to know.

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>> You could find the like the cost and logistics of replacing them. >> Okay. Great. Okay. Uh, anything does anyone have anything else under unfinished business that we might have missed? >> Well, did we talk about Sparta Mountain

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and we take that off unfinished? I know Alex is usually the >> um I uh we did talk about it, I think. I forget what. Are we done talking about it? >> Uh, no. Actually, I uh I wanted to bring that up, too. Um, I did send an email to

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uh Sylvia Salon from um the New Jersey. >> Yes, New It's New Jersey Forest Watch and uh uh Friends of Spartan Mountain. And um she would like to come in and speak with us. Uh she has some uh she

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wasn't able to tonight. Let me see if I can find Um, and as as far as she knows, uh, there are no changes, uh, as far as logging stand B, which was the plan for this winter. Um,

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I think I shared the documentary that they reported a year ago on what the existing conditions are of the stands that have been logged. um says, "We are instead encouraging the New Jersey D to revisit other areas that

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were once logged on Sparta Mountain. These are areas that are now overgrown and no longer serve as early successional habitat and hence that is their supposed reason for doing the logging in the first place and it makes no sense to or it makes sense to encourage the D to go back to the areas

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that were cut for example in 2010. Um, then they hope to have a meeting soon with the D and encourage uh us to submit further comments to the new commissioner. So, we might want to maybe try to craft something um to do that um

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>> after we hear her speak. >> We could do it anytime. >> Yeah. I mean, is what what is the deadline? Is there a deadline? Well, they're finished with the logging, you know, now, but they're going to plan and start up.

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>> Yeah, they the plan is for stand 9B in the in uh the coming in the winter. Uh >> so there they did have a comment period that we submitted our comments resolution already but uh it says here

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she's encouraging uh us to to submit further comments to the new commissioner. Um he's weighing the options. Um okay. So hopefully we can get her to come in and enlighten us further on

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this. >> Oh, Neil, I'm I'm sorry. I did have one more thing. Did you get my email that Governor Cheryl did >> reverse our decision? >> Yes, the school New Jersey School of Conservation is now.

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I sent her a thank you email. >> Oh, well, thank you for doing that. >> Yes. Thanks. Thanks. We should all do that. >> Thank you. There was something. >> Okay, we can go to the couple of new

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business items. I asked to add um I don't know if we've ever had a mission statement for the commission. Uh it's not on the website. So, uh I I >> we do we do have one. >> We do. I remember when Dan was on the

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EC, we went through that. >> I thought we did, too, but it's not I can't find it anywhere and I can't find it. It's not on the website. >> So, >> there's one there's one in the code. >> Yes, there's one in the code. >> Do you want me to try to find it while

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you're looking? >> Um, >> it's probably long-winded. >> Contact. >> Uh, I'll start looking and you go through that. supporting it for not this next >> actually. Yeah, I'm sorry I didn't look

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at the code. I expected it to be >> No, that's the first place I >> That would have been smart. >> No, it's it's in Ecode. It I think it explains um All right. Would you like me to read it? >> Yes, please.

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>> Well, actually, I don't even know if this is No, this is under the website. Well, all right. So, I don't know. This is coming from Spartaone uh municipal website, not from

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the e-code, but it says uh there is hereby established an environmental commission for the protection, development, and use of natural resources with the exception of those duties related to water resources which are presently under the jurisdiction of the board of health. The commission

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shall be known as the environmental commission of the township of of Sparta. 1978 Code 2-22.1 and the duties of the environmental commissioner to conduct research into the use and

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possible use of the open land areas of the township to study and make recommendations concerning open space preservation. Water resource, water resources management, air pollution control, solid waste management, noise

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control, soil and landscape protection, environmental appearance, marine resources and protection of flora. It says just says flora fauna coordinate the activities of unofficial bodies organized for similar purposes to

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advertise prepare print and distribute books maps charge plans and pamphlets which in judgment it deems necessary for its purpose within the limits of funds appropriated for the commission to keep an index of all open areas publicly and privately owned including

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open marshlands and to obtain information on the proper use of such area which sounds a lot like environmental resources. inventory. um to recommend to the planning board plans and programs for the development and use of such areas for inclusion in the master plan of the township

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to serve as a liaison between local conservation needs and regional, state, and federal agencies ministering to those as authorized by the uh to those needs as authorized by the township council to do such other acts and things as are

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reasonably related to and designed to carry out the purpose and objectives of the commission. again uh 1978 code 2-22.5. >> I don't know if we can beat that. >> 1978. >> So OB so obviously that was some general

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ang recommendation back in the day because I remember reading that several years ago and thinking well we're not marine. Why isn't isn't this talking about >> our area? Um, but that's a project that

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we could do. We could we could hone our our particular mission in for our needs here and our concerns in in this area. >> That's that's what I was kind of suggesting that we we try to take something like that and and

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>> whittle it down. whittle it down, condense it, pick out the finest points and uh uh have something established that we can put on our >> on our website. >> I don't see myself taking a course at records on research design. It's

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suggesting that we're going to do research, you know, um, you know, that's if we're going to do research, we could be doing the environmental inventory,

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you know, that's not really research, but that but that is very timeconsuming, you know, um, extremely important. And I'm not suggesting that we can't have a part of that using the Highlands

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Council's uh tool, but um but it's kind of out of the scope, I think, uh of what at least I personally have the time to do. um doing a research study uh on you know

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an environmental aspect you know and going into research design uh and that's that's kind of how what I was hearing that you know that we needed to do certainly we can we know our town

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we know our spaces you know very well we can make recommendations based on the needs of the residents here you know for for sure Um, so yes, I agree with you. We need to think about the mission and and what our mission um should be.

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>> Yeah. >> Right. Kind of a um a more general statement like you know the the two examples I included were from they were used by anjac and the one of the

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training courses. So uh >> cool >> maybe uh And I think doing research is not necessarily I I I don't think it's it's the general statement, right? But it's it's very broad because it can it can mean going to the field

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>> to the library, >> right? >> But it can also mean just using readily a available data and just using the tool from the finance uh commission or using the New Jersey Data which everything is already collected. So it's not

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necessarily going and searching for it's searching like in the field for animals or >> taking that's yeah I >> but it could be read read by somebody. I don't think anybody looked up the code

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that Rob found before applying. I I uh before applying >> before applying for you know to volunteer on the environmental commission but that would kind of make me question if I really could devote myself to such endeavor.

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>> Yeah. No, no, no. >> To going back to school, >> take a class in research design, but but if it's, you know, to re re search public published papers, you know, and you know that are accredited

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organizations that publish them certainly, >> but it doesn't it doesn't require us to do all these things. I think this is important. And I think this uh came about from the state and allowed for commissions to exist and it's tied

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into the whole uh having a liaison to planning because previously there there wasn't a liazison to from environmental to planning. So, this allowed for townships to create a commission

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um when people kind of didn't really think that was important. So, I I think it's I think it's important. I don't think we have to do all these things, but we could keep it really high level like looking at this. Yeah. I mean, seeks to protect and improve the quality

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of our land, water, and air u by advising and and the specifics are there, right? Like we're we're going to advise just like planning and just like um legal

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um and just like engineering um what we think needs to be maybe protected or like how we can quantify our natural resources. I mean, the aquafer is a pretty big deal and a lot of people hadn't really been

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having the conversation about um the importance of that, but yeah, >> I think they're talking about a lot more now um in the past four or five years, >> right? >> But I guess to Christine's point, if we could say it a different way, if we

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don't want to say research, right? We could say we make databased recommendations for Sparta Township. And that kind of encompasses what Barbara was saying that we use the tools and we look things up to make informed recommendations. >> Is database better than research?

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>> No, I'm just saying people. No, but I'm just saying we can Right. It doesn't have to be like implying that it's a research project, right? So, we can hone things depending on what we want to focus on. >> Yeah. >> But this is good. I like that it's short. It's two sentences. It's better

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than what >> the long thing you read online. Well, the yeah the again the long thing I read online was to ensure I think that that this commission has the power to do those things if they so choose. >> Right. >> But it doesn't require us to do all those things.

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>> Right. That's the establishment ordinance. Right. Exactly. >> Right. So >> So we can kind of say whoa whoa whoa don't worry too much. This is what we're actually trying to do. And so citizen science, I mean, you know, educating the public and educating the statutory

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boards and making known because we're representing the people's right, like now and in the future. So we want to make sure that the natural resources basically have a voice >> through us. And I would say we have um

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like a longer it's probably a longer paragraph, but we do have some kind of explanation that gets we've been using for some of the press releases that have gone out when we explain what the environmental commission does. So maybe we can go back to that because that's something we did for our own township a

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couple of years ago and maybe like look at that look at some of these examples and condense it a little bit. But I think it has some good lines that we could potentially reuse or tweak a little bit. >> Right. I I would be more than happy to work on

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this with whoever else wants to uh so that we could maybe kind of work on it outside of meetings and not have a quorum. But who else would like to join this the mission statement

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subcommittee? Do we need to we need to stand up a subcommittee for that? I just thought next meeting or prior to next meeting we could put together some and workshop them. >> We could do that too, but uh but you want to do a sub as far as communicating uh

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>> Yeah. We just don't want to do it to everyone. Yep. >> And I know that the longer paragraph that I'm referencing was included with the Earth Day um press release that went out. So you can start there if you want to look at it. Thanks for bringing this up.

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>> Yeah. So, uh, can I have a couple other volunteers who would want to go back and forth on this before our next meeting? >> I mean, I'll go back and forth if we're just doing it over email. >> Sure. I mean just you know if you if you

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have something that you feel you know is better for our mission statement please send it out >> right >> and then I I'll give you feedback on that for sure >> okay the point is I don't want to work on it over email because we don't you

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know we don't want to violate the open public records act and have a a quorum >> he just wants to make a small group >> yeah like of >> so that's only three people >> right quorum is four right on our >> on our board

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>> on our board >> sunshine laws >> sunshine laws well like with town council because we're five so it's three >> but as long as you don't send it to all >> right >> you send it individually it's okay

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Yeah. So, >> so I'll be your second. I'm really good at summarizing things. >> I know. >> Yeah. >> I question your definition of summarizing sometimes, but >> let me >> short summary.

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>> But no, you're uh who else wants to do this? >> You want to do it or do you want to just get it after the fact? I I just want to make sure that in the mission statement that we say something about sciencebased

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um you know we're basing our recommendations on on science and I think that's very important in this day and age is >> so we want one more person and then it's we're not going to like decide this next

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meeting probably but we'll talk about some more Right. >> I could do it. >> Okay. So, you >> you Rob and >> and me. >> Yeah. >> Okay. The next thing I wanted to talk about were

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uh EC our environmental commission goals. We never formally established any goals in the beginning of the year as far as I remember. Um but we we've had all the you know we've had certain goals in mind that we've

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acted on. Uh, but I'd like to maybe try to come up with something for the rest of the year and moving forward for for next year because we will have to uh put together a uh report of all our our work and accomplishments before the end of

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this year. So, um, if, uh, and people want to think about what goals we might want to try to write down as concrete goals for the rest of the year.

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>> Oh, >> yeah. >> And including anything specifically, can we start? We have um all these green team volunteers who um have signed up, but

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we don't really communicate with them. And I I know I did send out a a mass mailing to them asking for volunteers for Sparta Day and only got one reply, but uh maybe if we can maybe establish a

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project like for some kind of invasive species cleanup uh >> where we do our fallation, >> fall cleanup. >> Fall clean up. Yeah, I'd like to do that again because we, you know, we have been doing that uh pretty consistently. I don't think we did it last year or maybe

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we didn't. I wasn't able to. >> Yeah, we >> participate, but >> but yeah, that's that's uh that could be one, >> right? >> Because the LMPF didn't get to do it this year in spring because it it poured. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> So needed. I bet it's needed. >> Yeah. We still did the Mitch Morrison >> Yes. >> volunteer day. Uh >> but yeah, that's that's something. And um

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>> what about if we create the goals for the rest of the year? What about we just do like every month an email saying that's what we're going to be working on? if anyone have any kind of input or anything either through the email or

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they can come to the meeting so we can possibly have even more people coming and I don't know joining us. >> That's that's exactly what what I'm talking about. Uh we could we can do a newsletter >> a monthly newsletter. That would be a

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great thing to do. >> Even like those things that Courtney puts on the uh on the Facebook page. >> Yes. like one two of those every time we send that email, but maybe not too many emails >> because people don't like too many. So

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maybe like every month would be okay. >> Sure. Sure. Uh >> can we throw out some of those topics? Like right now I think we could just capture Right. We've talked about native plants, trees. Um, I think storm water is there's

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there's salt, storm water, deer control, >> um, >> backyard composting. >> There you go. What else? Come on. >> Uh, environmental >> the inventory the

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>> the Yeah, like natural resource inventory, >> right? >> Yeah. Sparta Mountain is a big one. Open space trails. >> We could ask them if anybody wants to work on the natural resource inventory

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just to to put it out there because that was the one thing that they really pointed out in our evaluation is is that we hadn't engaged the community. >> Yes. But >> what the green team? >> That's more more for the community

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rather than the green team itself. >> But I'm thinking we might have the reason they signed up to be a green team is because they have some real interest in the natural environment or expertise >> that they could possibly, you know, share with us. >> But that's the thing. How you going to

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determine if someone has the expertise versus just a volunteer? >> Exactly. And I think with this we should be really relying on people who know >> more than less >> than just people who are oh I want to

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work on it because I feel sometimes having too many volunteers it's not good because there's too many people that trying to control things and I I I don't know I think it's >> Yeah. >> Right. And the ERRI is more something

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for that's based on fact rather than Yeah. the volunteers doing. >> Have we ever asked the green team like done a survey for each of the members of the green team and asked them what they're passionate about? >> No, but I I I want to do that and >> that's a good thing. Or like what's

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>> their expertise is if any in the environmental field >> because we could take we could take our we know kind of what some of our things are and then we could kind of put them in groups maybe >> and and that brings up something I was uh looking at. Um

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in our ANject resources. Um, find it uh a community survey that Anjek has developed. I'd like to look into sending that out. I can forward it to

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>> or you can look it up on on the ANJ uh resources site. Sorry, >> I do think that we we should provide a list of suggested things, you know, a check boxes for them >> um rather than just um asking them what

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their particular concern or interest is. >> There's a a a survey that I I asked I did send an email the other day to an uh about the

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See, sorry. Resources and tools. >> Sometimes it's good to have a list and then just like an open paragraph form so they can because they might come up with something that we hadn't thought of.

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>> Right. But this is an Let's see. Uh yeah, there's a um community environmental survey that Anjek has developed and uh I I asked for it. They sent me back something that isn't that

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didn't work. So, I'm going to try to follow up on that. There are some other ANG resources that we should be taking advantage of. Uh there's a self assessment um checklist or self assessment tool and a monthly

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checklist. Um I'll just send them out to everybody and see what you think. >> Okay. >> Okay. But speaking of the of the EC goals, did did we ever finish the report for the year? Because I think I remember

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uh we used to do it like at like at the the end of the fiscal year I believe we would have to submit the report to the right. >> Yes. Yes. >> That was Yes. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, good. >> Okay. I wasn't sure.

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>> Yes. Uh I I did dig that up. Um I don't have it with me. >> What was it? report. >> There's a report of everything we did over um over 2025 >> and it gets sent to >> to Anjen. >> Okay. >> But does it go >> No, no, I'm talking about sending to the township.

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>> Yeah. Does it go from >> I think it goes >> the midpoint to kind of the midpoint in this year, right? >> I think you're right. >> And I know that we work on that when Kim was the >> Yeah. >> So it was the mid of the year. We would

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have to prepare the report. What >> Right. either now or it's overdue, right? >> Yes. >> But but that's so a awkward because you came to be the chair in January, right? >> Well, yes. >> So, you have to work, you know, uh with

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Kim if you have any questions or go back in the notes in the minutes, go through the minutes um to provide a summary, you know. Um I just think that's awkward. Um

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no actually the report >> but if we have it for the last year that was sent to the right that was sent >> yes >> to the NJ then we will have it from the January to now when Neil was the the >> January to now we will

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>> yeah we'll have to that some >> so we have it for the last six months of the year of the previous year because that was sent to the NJ, right? >> No, it's be sent to NJIC in 2025

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in July. So from from July to December, >> it wasn't sent that early. I think I think we did it in November. >> Sorry, I had it here. >> I think we can look into this because we have to send one to the township. Yes. So, let's see what we have, >> right?

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>> And let's work on like what we did January to now and let's see what we have for the last >> six months of the previous year. >> I I'll find last year's report and send it to >> Yeah. >> So, that's

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>> Yeah. >> something we need to start looking at. >> But it I don't think it was July. It wasn't like July to July. It was >> I think I think it was July. I think it was school year. >> All right. Well, >> but we can Yeah, we can look into

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>> Let me confirm that. Yeah. Thanks. Um, next thing under new business is a lighting ordinance. I found the ANJ dark sky model lighting ordinance template for municipalities. It's put it in your

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package. Oh, terrific to get the uh our professionals to start looking at this. And >> this is something I started I I use this for planning board and minor site plan as guidance. Um dark sky. So, I just

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want to get on the record um because this is highly detailed, but the the five principles for responsible outdoor lighting are one that it's useful. So, only use light if it's needed. So, when

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we kind of make recommendations, I was always kind of saying turn it off when not in use. That it's targeted. So, it only falls where it's needed. So use shielding uh and careful aiming to target the direction of the light beam.

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Um that it's low low level. It should it's only as much as needed. Light is cheap now with LEDs, but um the the result is that we often times end up with a lot more light pollution

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than we would have had 20 years ago. um controlled. So, use timers or motion detectors to ensure that the light is available only when it's needed, dimmed when possible, and turned off when not needed. And then my big one is that's warm colored. So, that's the like where

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I'm at 2700 3,000 Kelvin versus we don't need to light this thing up like it's daylight or the surface of the moon. It's just it's the difference between amber and blue white light. And so the blue white really messes with your

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circadian rhythm. >> Is that in here? >> I don't know if it is. I This is This is pretty detailed. So, but this is the ordinance. So, I mean, I would just say if this is what dark sky, if ANJ is

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able to use dark sky um as their lighting ordinance template for municipalities, I'm happy enough to just say, "Yeah, of course, we should do this." But, but also, there is a very simple fivepoint

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um detail. I can resend kind of what I ended up attaching to a lot um of planning board or minor site plan suggested conditions because we didn't have an ordinance to rely on >> but just kind of said hey I we ask that

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you only use when needed we ask that you shield it >> the other things that we'll run into um with commercial applications sometimes is that >> mixing 3000 Kelvin and 5,000. You'll

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often hear like that looks weird, which it does. So, it's it's very hard to get people to agree to 30,000 Kelvin, but costwise, like came up with Shopright, there's there's not a difference. Most lights now, commercial lights that you'd buy, they have a little dip switch, a

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little switch right inside the housing. You just pick three, four, or 5,000 Kelvin. So, I think that's a simple ask. There's no cost. Just drop it down to 3,000. The other argument against warm light is oh it's it's less

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um it's less effective than like bright daylight light which is true but it's also because it's not stimulate stimulating your rods and cones and your eyes which is the whole thing where blue

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light is just like jarring >> like being on your phone all night long in the dark and >> Yeah. Exactly. >> before you go to bed. Who does that? >> Oh, I don't know anybody that does that. >> And so I don't know. Like I don't have an iPhone, but but doesn't Apple have a little thing that that changes it to an

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amber light after a certain time? >> Yeah. >> So it's the same principle, >> right? >> Mhm. Oh, this is great. >> But as far as creating an ordinance with those

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>> Well, so look at this. But, you know, if I'm verbose, this is way like the but the third page is good, right? That shows exactly the lighting temperature guide. It shows very clearly the difference between warm and cold light.

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>> Um, so it it could be this complicated, but just as we saw with our discussion about the environmental commission guidelines, >> I think it could be as simple as those five key points. Um, so just to refresh

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everyone, it's come up before. I could resend those um for people to look at while they're looking at this as well. There's a graphic too that goes with it. So >> So that 3,000 is the beginning of the neutral. >> Uh

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>> the 3,00 Kelvin. >> So 2700 is usually like the Yeah. uh 3500 it says that it's beginning of the neutral. So I mean

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the warmest that I requested was 2700, but a lot of um commercial lighting will start at 3,000. It'll go 3,000 to 5,000. So just have three switches, three, four, or 5,000 Kelvin.

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And there's a great, if anyone's like really interested in this, I think it's Washington DC like maybe 10 or 15 years ago did this whole process to switch over their street lighting to because everything like monuments and and historic

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structures, they look different. It was whale oil was very warm light and then they replaced with like mercury vapor or sodium mercury, whatever. uh and then everything was very amber and suddenly everything went very

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daylight and that the initial LEDs were very bright. So we're trying to trying to re-educate people that maybe that this warmer color would be beneficial for aesthetics, for our

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health. And it also the same way that it affects us adversely, it affects um the environment. So >> plants and animals, >> this is really interesting. >> It is okay. Very detailed.

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>> Yeah, I like that. >> And um >> what are our lights on the the street lights? >> Probably probably 5,000. >> You think they are 5,000? >> Yeah. I had asked the town manager um because I think you guys recently

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replaced them. I said, "What what are those?" And I think he misunderstood and kind of they're the same style, >> right? But my hope was always, and this would go along with the artificial turf, >> is if we did like a mass replacement of

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our street lights >> that I would want to switch them all to 3,000 Kelvin >> because it'll um it should be shouldn't be any cost change. And just when we switch over, if we go warmer with our

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light, it'll um be beneficial. There's someone across the lake that has this green and purple light shining goes right into you like that. >> Yeah, there's some some bright lights around. I don't know. >> Well, and so that's that's another

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question is we have noise ordinances but we don't >> but no light. >> So there should be again with those five there should be shielding. I mean if it's because that that's a quality of life impact. I do remember talking about this in the

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past though with previous liaison um Dan Cherello about how uh converting all the lights in Station Park to warmer lighting would be very very

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expensive. It's >> Yeah. So, like a month ago, I had tried to talk to um the township about using a program where where for a dollar per light, we could have gotten replacement lights and it was using

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federal programs. But if they're already LEDs, I think they couldn't they couldn't use that program. But you're right, the very high lights, they need a scissor lift and they're also, you know, uh, rated for 247 exposure to the elements, so they're

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weathertight and all that. They're very costly. But at some point, just like the artificial turf, they'll reach end of life. And at that point, I want to be prepared to say, "Okay, we got to replace them anyway. Let's replace them with something that is going to be more

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beneficial for the community. Do they always replace them all at once for one area or do they >> I don't know >> replace them as they go out and you know it would have a different color

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to it, you know, to have the white and then the warmer. But I believe it was you that suggested that we start buying the warmer replacements and putting them in. Now, how would that

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look in a community if you had warm and then cooler, you know, along the same street? Well, applicant engineers would say it would look awkward, and I would agree that it would look look awkward because >> we tried to request um in a parking lot

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that could could like a building have these warm lights, but then yeah, if you if you have basically full daylight raining down on your parked cars and

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then you go over to this nice, you know, building. Um, and it's got decorative lights at 3,00 Kelvin and it's warm and it's you kind of have to you just have to ask and work with them. But

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I think it's still worth having the conversation doing it and and again, it's not when they fail. Um, most of them maybe already have the opportunity to just flip the switch to four to 3,000 Kelvin. They're probably

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at 5,000 just flip it and then um >> I mean we got to start somewhere. >> So, can we can we ask for uh like whoever ordered the lights, right? they will have exactly what

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>> lights were or like what model or whatever number was ordered and then we can >> check if we can switch them. >> Yeah. >> And like let's start there. >> I mean shop right again they um or stop and shop when they came in I said hey

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would it be any cost difference if you went >> they changed the sign? >> They they agreed to it. I haven't, you know, checked, but they said, "Oh, yeah, that's not a problem if you guys want that." So, it it just for our environmental liaison, I would say when

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when you're hearing stuff on a planning board and you get to that question about lighting, you just say, "Would you be open to setting all your lights at 3,000 Kelvin? Would you be open to, you know, only having them on when the business is

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open?" um you know so a timer setup and shielding them so that they don't you don't have light trespass beyond the property line I mean simple things and that's three of the ones that I can think of off the top of my head but there's five principles >> downward facing

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>> seem to bulk a little bit they you know they seem to >> do they yeah if you want to >> they seem to what >> bulk at it >> yeah they seem to sometimes want to negotiate for um you you know, a higher

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uh a wider light uh when I think you've even brought it up on the planning board. >> Yeah. >> Try just trying to get them down to like 3,000 >> every single time. I would >> 700 Kelvin. >> Yeah. I would put that into minor site

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plan and um as a request just because it's it's an easy request to make. It doesn't cost them anything. It's just a decision. and they would bulk at it when it when it there were pre-existing daylight balanced lights and they didn't want to mix them or they would say,

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"Well, they don't illuminate quite as much as the daylight," which again is true, but if you >> What about the master plan? >> I'm not part of that, but I would say that lighting guidance should, you know, we could put this forward. Town council

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could push this along and you could just say just like design standards for, you know, plantings. We should do this because it has a direct impact on um human life and and non-human life.

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>> This right here, 2700 Kelvin, you know, that's what they're recommending, but I haven't heard any of u of the applications suggest that we do 2700 or state 2700. It's all always usually 3500

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4,000 and kind of in that range. It's a it's a bargaining point. >> It's an easy thing when they come before planning board or zoning. That's the time when you condition the approval with that. But I mean also if it's in

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the master plan then that's that's what we're requesting. This town observes dark sky guidance. dark sky guidance has these five principles, we need you to adhere to it. And then instead of

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if there's a reason, and sometimes there are valid reasons like safety lights, um other lighting, then they state that reason and it's just a it's just a an approval beyond that. They just have to

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make their case. But there's not really, I don't think, a good reason not to control your lighting on site. >> Make sure this goes to the uh master plan subcommittee. >> And then I'll I'll send you the graphic

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with the five principles from dark sky because I didn't immediately see it there. And then I can also send you uh the I think it's in our emails, but I can resend the text that I ended up with is like we ask that you blah blah blah

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blah blah. >> Wonderful. >> Good news. There's a grievance procedure. >> All right. Um that's the end of >> Yes. >> our new business. Does anyone else have

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any like >> Yeah, I just wanted to um tell everyone this is a couple months out, but just so you can mark your calendars, the North Jersey Rivers Conference is going to be hosted on Friday, October 16th at

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Centinary University in Hacketttown. And uh Christine and I are on the planning committee, but this is an event that's hosted um by New Jersey Highlands Coalition every year. >> And the specific workshop that I'm

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organizing that I think is relevant to our committee is road salt lessons from Pennsylvania. So this is going to be a way that we can compare what they're doing in Pennsylvania to what's going on in New Jersey. Um, and we're going to have speakers from Stroudwater Research

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Center and the PA Road Salt Action Working Group. So, it should be a good comparison and maybe we get some new ideas for what we can do in New Jersey. >> October 16th. >> Yes. >> At sentinary.

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>> Yes. >> Time uh 8:30 to 4:30. It's a Friday. Um, and the registration is open so you can get your tickets. Um, and maybe Courtney, I can send you the

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announcement. We could get that on the Facebook page. Yes, it's a great event. I've been to most of them recently. Um, there is an ANJ conference too. I can't find the date. I'll

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bring that up the next time. I think that's in September. Uh, one other thing I attended a public hearing on the NJPACT real rules. >> That was Tuesday night. um

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where these rules were adopted but um governor is trying to to resend them for now and many many people spoke out against it

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against rescending the rules. >> Oh yeah, I saw good. So hopefully they'll take another look at that and realize that climate change is here. It's affecting us. It's affecting

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homeowners and changing these rules would benefit everyone. So >> can't put them off any longer. >> No. And you know they've been working on this for years. Um,

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I wanted to ask if anybody had had a chance to look at the Sparta water report. I know I was sent one in the mail and I haven't yet I haven't yet looked at it, but years ago when I first

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moved here, I used to get a nice water report that was a few pages and had maps of the diff the different regions and the well regions and it was very

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informative. And now they want you to just go to this link, you know, and look at it. >> Um, but I guess I just miss the um having that report, you know, and I've saved them, the paper reports through

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the years. Um, and it would be good for us to do that. and if anything pops out at us such as chloride or anything. There has been I think I did notice an increase last year just from their well monitoring that goes on um you know the

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past year. I know I know there's a lot of EC coli that you know uh alerts uh but um I did notice the chloride also um and um maybe we get a Maybe we could

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just talk about that at the next meeting. >> Sure. I uh Yeah, I remember the paper reports, too. Um >> they were great because it explained to everyone where your wells were and where what section you were getting your water from and and uh

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>> I haven't followed the link, but I I will. Uh and I don't see why all that information shouldn't be in there wherever that links to. I think we probably could get on the link on the probably the town website. There's probably if we go, we could

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probably find it that way. But the the link >> I got a a sheet in the mail and it was written out. You couldn't click on it. I would have to type in that long address, right? So, who's going to bother to do

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that? They're fixing dinner. >> I know. Oh, I get a I get a bottle left at my doorstep every six months to have my water tested. >> You do? >> Yeah. >> We've been doing it for 15 years >> from the water department. >> Yep.

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>> Is there any reason why uh >> I don't know why they pick us. Um to be honest, >> you're the one with the lead pipes. >> Huh? >> Maybe you're the one with the lead pipes. >> Maybe. No, my my neighbor did. But

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>> no. Um Yeah, we've been doing it every year. >> No kidding. >> Twice a year. >> Did it test your tap water? >> Yeah. >> I test the the one that doesn't have a filter on it and has to have been not

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been used for six to eight hours. >> Wow. >> Then they come and pick it up. >> Interesting. ever get any reports back on specific to >> I had to do it again but that one time just actually last year we had to do it again and it was fine

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>> but you don't get feedback onific Yeah, we get feedback every time. >> Yep. >> I have no idea why. I don't even know if my neighbors get it to be honest. >> I'm serious. >> I don't know

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>> who else inspired against that. >> I just thought they gave it to everybody around the lake >> or every other house. >> A lot of bottles. >> Huh? >> A lot of bottles. >> A lot of plastic bottles. Yep. >> All right.

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Unless anyone has anything else, >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Thank you, Rob. Can I have a second? >> I second. >> All in favor? I I >> That's mine. >> Yes. >> Oh, thank you.

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>> Thank you.