Uh welcome to the Township of Sparta Environmental Commission meeting of Thursday, May 28th, 2026. The meeting is called to order at 7:04. Uh we're live in the council chambers at the municipal building. The you can watch the stream on YouTube on our
Sparta uh channel which is uh Sparta TWWPs. Please take notice that action will be taken on the following items at the Sparta Commission meeting on Thursday. Um, adequate notice of the meeting was provided to the public and the press on
May 22nd by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice. Uh, can we have a salute to the flag? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Courtney, can we have the roll call? >> Chair Neil Sourine >> here. >> Vice Chair Christine Rogers >> here. >> Christine Dumbar, >> present. Barbara Casulka,
Robert Otto >> here, >> Alex Birdie >> here, >> Councilwoman Margie Murphy, Nicholas Drada >> here. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Courtney. Um, first item is
approval of our minutes from May 14th. Everyone a few minutes to look over. and all my corrections prior to the meeting. Um, anybody else? >> Um, page four under data center large
scale highintensity ordinance. I would just uh strike was presented so that it would just read Robert Otto presented a definition of a data center for reference describing facilities. And if we want to add that
the um definition that I provided was the one that was uh presented for handover. Then I had page six uh last paragraph, Robert Otto explained that he rather than they had asked why the planning
board does not use an intensity or scale-based review. That's all I had >> on uh page four under speaker series second sentence.
Robert reported that he has contacted Paul. Let's put his last name uh which is Sutin. S U T P H E N. And then on page six,
second paragraph, it should be metrics driven thresholds instead of metrics drive. All right. I'll make a motion uh to approve these minutes with the minor changes um
provided. >> I'll second. >> All in favor who were here? I >> I >> I >> meeting the minutes are approved. >> Okay. We have no correspondence. We have no applications.
Uh no one from the public is here. Um reports. Oh, we have not had uh the planning board has not had a meeting for three weeks. Our next meeting is planned for
next Wednesday. And at the previous meeting three weeks ago, we did approve an application at Houses's Corner. It was the uh Nicolock paving um place uh business there. And
um so we heard that application and then uh we voted approval. There were no major um changes particularly to the environment that I that I noted in that. So
>> for that one, didn't they have smoke uh stacks that were different heights? >> They had uh new conveyor belts that were put in, but their um Oh, no. the smoke stacks were a little higher, but that
was a regulation that they had to comply to from the DP because they're better filters. Yeah. So, I understand that that was a particular mitigation or whatever, but it sounded like there was two or three
different heights uh and the supplier maybe there was a miscommunication. But I guess my concern was just that uh it seemed like an it exceeded the height restrictions and then it also seemed
like the approval was based on we're going to put filters on to add this height um and obviously you want filters to filter out the particulates um or the emiss or
the emissions, right? So that was that to me just I didn't really love that but obviously it was the right decision. So just um but it sound like that was done with with coordination with the town.
>> I don't recall anything major in terms of height and I was glad to see that more filters for dust were put on. My concern was is that the stones rumbling down the shoots um because they were um
placed in a different area and it seemed like it was close to the homes in the north village, >> but they said that it was very um they have new technology that um that
mitigates the noise pollution. So, it's it's improved. So, well, the conveyor I think was previously inside the facility and it was moved outside >> for safety reasons, right? Yeah. >> So, okay. >> Didn't want people in with the conveyors
inside. >> So, that was that was pretty much it. And, um, so we'll see what happens next Wednesday. Thank you. >> Thanks, Chris. Um the master plan subcommittee, we had
a a a meeting of a of a subgroup uh last week. We got together during the daytime and uh talked about goals, what the what our goals are for this master plan examination. And uh our
next meeting is the next the second Monday of June. That's all I have. Okay, I guess we can move on to unfinished business. Number one, data center large scale
highintensity ordinance. Care to speak about this? Rob, I think I've said enough. Uh, did you guys have a chance to review it? And do you guys if if so um are
there any constructive or non-construct constructive uh things you want to offer? >> I I on my behalf I'd just like a little bit more time. Um I was out at the last meeting although I did listen to the
meeting and I really appreciated the comment of um that and and it is true I believe that if it's not a permitted use then it has to go through the full application process and data centers
from what I understood are not per a permitted use and any of our ordinances at this point in time. So um so that uh I think that we don't need to
restate that um you know at all. But I do think that um in the master plan or maybe in terms of an ordinance, we do need to state the metrics that um our
community has um has a concern about um and um that are scientifically based in terms of um measurements and metrics with you know noise, water and um energy
uh usage etc. safety. So, um, so yeah, I think that we're on the right right path there. Thank you very much. >> Yeah, I would like to take this to the master plan subcommittee
next maybe next meeting if you think that's a good idea. >> Do you uh beyond that, do you have any any uh tweaks to it? >> Not really. No, I think >> I think it's it's pretty comprehensive.
I have to I have to review it again before I can pages. >> Rob, does it mention um any uh concern with regional impact? >> Yep. So, I would I would take a look at it
and uh if you have any um suggestions after fully reviewing it, then I think it would be appropriate to just email all of us at this point. We've discussed it um in public. Um but there's definitely there's there's a specific
regional impact zone discussion because as we know um natural resources don't adhere to municipal boundaries. So that should concern all of us, >> right? And I probably have things in
there about wildlife corridors or connectivity with with ecosystems. >> There's um there's ecosystems in regards to uh tree uh canopies and forested areas and zonation. So, if there's
something specific you want to add, then I would recommend um that you add it there. I think uh I Yeah, I mean like I wanted to kind of let everyone weigh in if they had specific things, but uh at this point I
kind of took a break from it. Um and I looked at some of the other data centers stuff that's been continuing around us and nationally and globally. Um, and I kind of stand by it. I got a few uh
suggestions from Barbara that I want to incorporate, but um what I what I am leaning towards, but again I want to hear from everyone else is if if everyone could read it um send any updates then I guess we could advance it
through master plan subcommittee if you think that's the way or I didn't know if it should go to governing body for their consideration because it sounded like they were working on some resolution. Um, and it may be because I had
um stood in front of planning board and asked them why why do we have a specific use-based um system versus an intensity based system knowing the answer is that well classically most planning and zoning is
done this way but kind of suggesting that maybe we should take another look at it. So, it sounds like um Mr. Sylvester, Councilman uh Sylvester is working on that. Um
and I just want to make sure that we're we're working together on this. So, I guess the question is, would it make more sense to go to the governing body? They've just had a meeting uh I just heard where they reference something that sounds similar to kind of the the direction that we're going, but I
imagine it's not 10 pages. If we get it to them and if they feel like it's worth it, we could kind of have an earmark on there say, "Hey, could you also copy this to master plan subcommittee?" because regardless if if it advances
past them um it would go for consistency review with the planning board and um so that would all kind of work together. So, I don't really know the best way to move it forward, but did you have anything? >> Okay. >> No.
>> Is is this like um >> insensitive or urgent and in any way? Of course, we want to we want to move it along, you know, we don't want to sit on it. >> I would say that people seem uh to feel some urgency as you've pointed out from
a planning perspective. from what I think I know is that yeah any use um not listed in any zone of which data center is not in any zone in Sparta is therefore presumed prohibited. So, it
would take an applicant coming forward and we've but we've seen it um before uh in in other m municipalities where it could it could simply come from a planning board or potentially from a
governing body where a developer says, "I have this great idea for something. um how can we kind of work together to allow for this project to proceed? And that pro project could be
data centers or it could be some uh large scale or highintensity use that we may or may not be considering. My suggestion is to move this along. I've spent a lot of time working on it. Uh Barbara has reviewed it quite a bit. um
we're both pretty familiar um just professional expertise with like what could be done if we wanted to do it and I think um it's a it's as good a time as any there is I think there is a clock there because if any of this can be
incorporated into the master plan as we might have seen with Andover they rushed their master plan and then after the fact they introduced a definition a very general definition for data centers. And so now that they've
defined it, they kind of had to try to backfill regul regulations. Then they had to go and ban it. We don't have to do any of that. But uh with uh bottling with things that we've seen
the last several years, uh I think I've had a wakeup call and hopefully a lot of you um up here have as well. and people potentially listening to this where I think why not get more information? Why not have the questions
be asked? Why not uh do kind of what we talked about which was um if if planning and zoning statutory boards are reviewing applications and we're an advisory um commission, we could be providing
a review to help them with their decision makingaking. um to stave off perhaps development that's not um the best for this community and I I think setting those thresholds is very
important. So uh and and also again the regional controls is an important thing. So uh I I would prefer not to sit on this. Uh we've we've talked about it and looked at it um a bit. So there would
still be opportunities to look at it if the governing body so chooses to look at it. If the uh planning board looks at for consistency review, they could weigh in. And I think, you know, maybe even,
you know, if Neil, if if you think it would be appropriate, you know, you present this to master plan subcommittee, maybe we could have further discussions about this. It's a it's a pretty important topic I think and I think it
would also it works up for the large scale and high intensity uses but also works backwards for the smaller intensity there's a carve out for small businesses. So every day for a small business when they're hung up and
there's a use that's presumed prohibited because it's not listed because no one ever thought of it. uh it's it's killing small businesses and the fix for that currently, the only fix that I know of is to either have a
small business go for planning or zoning hearings which are costly. Um or for us or planning or zoning to suggest, hey, add this use to this zone. Then they have to they have to draft an ordinance
for that specific definition. And again, I think we see definitions can be litigated and they can be very broad. So I think this this would be a good framework to adopt. >> So I've heard that the Cheryl
administration is coming out with some guidance about data centers. So, are we um going to push this forward and then tweak as necessary with because I'm sure it takes it's a process to get it through the township and then but
anything working with the state is also a process. So, are we just going to push it forward from a Sparta level and then if any additional guidance comes out from the state? >> Yes. >> Then we just incorporate it incorporated later. >> This is use agnostic. So the nice thing
about this approach is uh it's it's not specific to data centers. So by remaining high level >> I think it helps us certainly you know if we can backfill stuff >> why not >> but if
>> I don't know what's going to be the next development trend in five years 10 years 15 years I I try to think of some stuff. So in there you'll see stuff about like delivery robots and aerial drones. Those could be something where if you imagine
a very small facility but with, you know, drones flying out of it, you know, hundreds per hour, that could be loud and obnoxious to a residence or a small business adjacent. It could have some of
its own safety concerns, but it wouldn't we have no mechanism to handle that right now. And it I could see a way that an applicant could put forth an application.
The other thing with some of this, I don't know if if you guys have been looking at data centers, there are these sweeping ways where um even a municipality can have the best intentions and put in a framework and
say we we want to disallow this thing on what basis. Um or if the federal government says we want you to have this, but if if we can anchor the changes in our process in I I have
specific concerns about our uh water um our clean air, but like the water that is important to supplying 70% of the water for the entire state. I think that we're it's a public trust and we should
protect it. So, it's very specific the way that this is written to anchor our regulations uh to that protection as well as other protections. So, you would see that. So, I would like to think that it would be
harder to challenge it. Um, this is not like a typical nimi nambi basic thing. We don't want this. We don't want cell towers. We don't want, you know, it's we have real concerns. We quantify them. We apply the metrics and
then it's not arbitrary and capriccious and it's fair across the board. If it exceeds the carrying capacity of the land, if it outstrips the natural resources, then it's probably not a viable
u proposal or project or use and we can show this is why it fails. But before we even get to that decision making, it what it also does is applies to any of these particular applications. Again,
not limited to that particular use. And it steps through what you what we should do anyway, which is is this proposal. An applicant is allowed highest best use of their property, but are the negative
criteria for that use considered fully considered over 20 years? Is it is it going to require that taxpayers then have to rebuild our roads at faster rates? Is it going to require that we have to create a fire substation because
there might be an issue? So, these are all things where if you look at kind of a bigger picture, something might sound good. It it, you know, it's very easy for like a town council to say, and Andover did it. They said, "We're going to get this amount of money and and our budget's going to be sorted out, and
that's that's great, and maybe you can get like a free ball field or something, but in five years, 10 years, 15 years, is it still such a good deal for the the taxpayers?" That's what I want to know. >> Right. That sounds
>> just speaking a little bit to um the four guard rails on data centers. I did watch that video yesterday and they were very broad. It seemed like they were focused on the hypers scale level and places like in down in Finland or
Finland in the south and they were like require um these centers to pay for their own energy um that they would be required to be completely transparent uh to the community. Um and they'd have
to give um provide energy and water reports to the community every six months. The third one was had to do with engaging the communities um and giving back uh and making community agreements
um and to um make uh them uh they did mention ma master plans. There needed to be compliance with um involving um pollution in their community and with the community's master plan.
>> Which video was this, Chris? Is this the >> This was yesterday's uh it was uh on YouTube NBC I think NBC New York and uh Philadelphia. >> But who is what is this in reference to like >> Oh, this is this is the uh governor
Cheryl and >> what he has just come out with the guard rails. >> Yeah, this was a press conference. It was a 30-minute seen yesterday. Yeah. And then the last one was there had to be jobs creation for unions and the wages had to be good
wages, prevailing wages that would support our New Jersey families. That sort of thing. So this is basically all that uh was mentioned. And then Angelie uh the president of the New Jersey Sierra Club mentioned that um
energy was a a very big factor um and um that was um her concern um and that they should be required actually to um provide uh not gas generators but uh renewables.
form of energy. She did mention that I think one of the main disappointments that I read about um but um was that she had s had indicated that she might um
just uh have a moratorum on warehouses for three to six months within the whole state. We're just going to stop. We're just going to look at this. Um but she didn't do that. So, um, the Sierra Club was very, uh, upset about that also. Um,
but, um, you had, um, uh, the head of the Senate and, um, the assembly come forward and say, "We're working on bills to pass that are going to, um, you know, address each one of these four pillars."
Who knows when that will happen, you know, down the road. And those four pillars are very blue sky vague as you've said. So something like what what I'm proposing is something we could
enact. We can't in a municipal fashion. We couldn't enact it tomorrow. But we could if we had the wait if we introduced it and we had the waiting period in a month or so. Um, and we could get it in incorporated
for master plan consistency. And it's not, I don't want to say wishful thinking, but some of that is like, it's make polluters pay, cradle cradle to grave
concerns. Um, the big picture, long-term effects, um, considerations, it uh, they're there. So I obviously feel strongly that um you know when we see these applications we
also don't really have a guideline. How should we be looking at this? Well you know has some forested area. We'd like to preserve that. This opens up conversations about you know banking uh spots for pvious uh cover um increasing.
Um, and so I I think it it opens up the door to further dialogue uh that we kind of started when um we heard from the master plan subcommittee uh a while ago. So I I think it would be
good to have this conversation and then so again I yeah I do think there's this a sense of urgency to it. >> Yeah. Um, I was just looking at our list of um things to do, unfinished business
here, and I was just wondering if some of those um or all of those um metrics or factors could be included in your um in the environmental commission checklist of concerns for all
applicants. I mean, yeah, but I I think I think that it would be worthwhile to do this and then we could take that and strip it down and simplify or uh a checklist. >> Yes. But if if we can get this in and
get those protections back filled uh sooner rather than later, then yes, then we could take that and we could and and that would also help us too because we wouldn't be just saying here's this random checklist. We'd say
this checklist flows from what we use for highintensity largecale applications. And there's also a section in there that the statutory bodies as well as the environmental commission have an
opportunity to exercise the lever for the review. Um that's kind of the the land carrying capacity with all those metrics. If in our opinion again any of those statutory boards um and as well as
a governing body can uh pull the lever on with the majority vote um on on a review of that nature. So I think it's kind of already baked into this where
we can do the checklist but I don't you kind of don't need to do the checklist if you have this because you can say I'm a little bit concerned that one of the moratoriums that we saw when we had this conversation bit about data centers is a moratorium on a conversion of a
warehouse to a data center because it seems like either if there's no appetite for development to proceed to a built warehouse or if building a warehouse is a lowerc cost way to kind of grab land,
develop it, get it to a certain point and then fill it with servers instead of goods. um that this is like a pathway that you know so in there there's
a triggering mechanism that just says you know if if something is being built and it starts to look like it's going to trigger any of these threshold triggers um then it is subject to this review. So
again, I think that review supersedes a checklist. >> Yeah, the checklist has to be based on something. So and that's that's why this come would come before the checklist, I think. >> And then the master plan would support that. All three of them would work
together. >> We don't want that. We don't want an applicant to come in and see, you know, pages and pages of of things, but this but it would be supported by the ordinance and and the master And we want to make the checklist as as legible and
as as clear and simple and short as possible to move their project forward. >> That's right. And so again, a small business would have a carveout in this and a larger business, I mean, I I
talked to Barbara about this too. we were looking at kind of the environmental checklist and kind of referring to our past experiences and her her current experiences. This seems to satisfy that. Um it it
steps us through specific metrics. Um, and it also satisfies my frustrations with my my brief time on planning board where there's you got to do this, then you got
to do this, then you got to check here, then you got did you check here? Did you get this sheet? Did you get the checklist? Did you feel the checklist? It shouldn't be that complicated. and and I think also even from a largecale
uh deep pocketed development project um having that awareness from day one or pre-planning and I talked about this a little bit that's going to be invaluable because a developer is going to say oh I'm not even going to bother or oh okay
this is reasonable so it kind of gets them to the table having the conversations that we should be having um early on. And they're not conversations that are just like, oh, are you going to make it look good? Are you going to have lots of
I'm not trying to diminish anything that we do, but there's there's a scientific way to step them through uh the best practices and and this would be it. And so if you're running the numbers on a large scale
project, you need to know what how you conform to that. And it seems like right now the way that it's conformed to is I want to build what I want to build. And then they're going to come back and then we're going to say after they've already spent probably $100,000
on engineering, oh, they want this, they want this, they want this. and it becomes a lot more costly and it delays construction to revise it after the fact. If they go in and they have this from day one, they can engineer it to
resolve a lot of the potential negative criteria. And if it works, if it balances, if it's a community balance, I think that's probably a closer win than we get when we instead then it's litigation and settling and It's not as
bad as it was going to be, but we're not totally happy with it. So, >> okay. So, then uh All right. We have one of two options. We could give this to Margie to present to the governing body. Um and I can also
take it to the the subcommittee. >> When's your next? >> Uh the second the second Monday of June, which Can we do both? >> Yeah, let's let's let's do them both. >> So, if you could be Well,
you said the second Monday. >> Yes. So, that would be uh the 11th. Oh, no. Wrong one. The the 8th. >> All right. So, let's say it doesn't sound like anyone has much to
add, if anything, to this. And again, I I think there there's going to be opportunities if there's appetite to to look at this. Um, so we'd still get an opportunity. Uh, but if anyone has any thoughts, if you
could just try to get them to me by early next week. I'm going to pull together I'm not going to change much with what I have. I'm gonna pull together um some of Barbara's uh few changes and uh just take another look at
it. I had a different a few different definitions for things, but um >> yeah, I I don't have any problem with moving forward. I'll I'll I'll look it over um you know um right away. I wanted to also mention if
you'd if we have any metric for cumulative impacts of of you know different uses also I was concerned about that that would probably be good because yes we have a way in for the the
small you know data centers and the small businesses but the cumulative impacts could you know draw a lot of energy and water and damage also. So I think that's something that there needs to be a a criteria maybe for that also.
Yeah. >> So there is a section in there with uh data loggers to be um furnished at the applicant's expense with data to be provided um for the municipality to have
access to. So, uh, we would have data logging capability. Um, and that's that's a pretty important thing because what we've seen sometimes is that an application will come in and then it will m materially change in some way.
Um, and this kind of keeps a little closer eye on it because it says, "Oh, you just went over an intensity or there's a specific traffic change. The the grade at this intersection changed."
So, that that would actually trigger some things. So, it it's all in there if you just read it. Um, but that's not to say it's all figured out, but also this would have to go through planning
board consistency review. So, if you could maybe because I don't I've I've gone through so many iterations of this. Uh, and I think it would be unfair to change a lot of big things at this point. if we're going to proceed with it, there will be opportunities for all
of us to add things as we think of them. Um, you'll have an opportunity on planning board um during review to I think put together a list of suggestions. So, I think that would be the best way to do it especially with when master plan is due to be finalized
what June July like August. >> Okay. So that's >> which wouldn't I don't think would that wouldn't be such a bad thing to make sure we get it right. >> Um but okay.
>> So do should I present this to the or are we going to send it? >> Well, I think it comes from the >> board. It seems like it should go through the planning board. >> It would come from the governing body and if they choose to forward it on, it would go for consistency review.
>> Okay. So at that point then it's gonna be is this consistent or the master plan. So I think that's why it makes sense to have Neil >> um you're going to have Lindsay Knight the planner she can look at this. Uh I
will say that a lot of the uh there's some setback metrics in there and I couldn't figure it all out and so a lot of those numbers are just placeholders. Uh, but it's kind of like it's it's at least a starting point. So
that's where like we could talk about how to best use the planner if you guys decide to give this some attention. >> I I think that's the best the best way before we present it to the governing body. >> Oh, so you want to just do it to master
plan subcommittee first and not in concert because they're already working on something. >> Oh, the the uh the council. Yeah, I didn't I didn't watch the meeting last week. >> So So they're working on something. So I want to make sure if they're working on something that they have >> uh
that they have other things to consider. They may not be. >> So I was thinking we Yeah, we provide both. So that's why if you if you guys get anything to me before early next week, but I would just ask that it be small changes
uh and then then you take it to master plan subcommittee and we'll ask Margie to present it to the governing body. >> Great. >> All right, >> sounds good. Sounds like a plan. Okay. So, uh,
Andover Data Center, that's included in this. I think they, uh, withdrew. They they p they passed an ordinance. Yeah, there's something some sort of meeting tonight. >> They were just doing an overall ban. And
so it same thing, right? Uh, people aren't familiar with this, but they They tried to allow data centers in a specific lot and block in Andover. Then they realized that they hadn't
thought it through. So they tried to backfill regulations. Then the people um of Andover and surrounding areas did not like that. So they said we'll do a full ban for every uh every block and lot in Andover
Township. And Uh, it had to go to consistency review um for the land use board, the planning board. It went through there. I believe they had kind of what we had, which was here some details that you might think about
before you ban data centers. And what I heard from those, I didn't hear all of it, um was a lot of people um that were there wanted to just do a complete band. So it
didn't matter the scale or the intensity or anything like that, >> right? >> Um and there there is an argument too about the primary use. Um so the argument of if it's telecommunications.
If it's a school, if it's medical, then medical and school like that's their primary use. So, they're not data centers. But I still do see how definitions are can be sloppy and can be litigated. So
that's why >> according to their definition in the ordinance >> well according according to the definition that I read at the last meeting which is basically a room with networking equipment and computers. I mean like I'm running a data center with servers.
>> So so I'm not but uh it's it's very shotgun approach and it needs to be I think a little bit more surgical if you're going to do that. But I gave up because because we looked at this all started because
we were trying to lessons learned from four or five years ago in warehouses and we had the same thing where there were guidelines that were rough draft and the governing body need to adopt them and other things happen. But now we're here
again and now it's data centers and we hear that there's four columns. They seem pretty vague. Um, I don't think that we should wait. If the state provides something, great, that can be incorporated later. But, but we can do
what we want and try and think that that is better. I think it's more financially sensible and I think it's uh better long term for the community to have thought about this and defined it.
So, but Andover just uh they they they just had such a broad definition and so now they are just banning it all because they're stuck on the definition. So that's the other reason for trying to
do this because if if we can do this then it potentially could be a template for other communities. So, I had shared this with some other regional communities for any feedback. Um, >> good >> some environmental groups. I don't want
to put them on the record, but they they said, you know, basically get this reviewed, see if uh your attorneys in your town, uh your planning board attorneys, have them all look at
it, have the planners look at it, and yeah, this would be something that they would support as this could be a template for other uh areas in New Jersey. So, that's the other reason to try to push it along because there are a lot of people that are catching up on this
issue. They're very concerned about this issue. Um, and we're warehouses. We also have a concern about bottling plants. We have other unknown concern. So, I'd rather just look at what are we really concerned about?
clean air, clean water, safe streets, and a viable ecosystem. So, how about we just focus on that? And that's kind of what I heard. Um, just because uh Christine wasn't here, but I listened
to a webinar from data center alley um in Lowden County and they're dealing with the after effects and these data center corporations have very deep pockets. So just like what I'm saying with development, if we ask for what we
want and we we define kind of our concerns, then I think that's the better way to do it because we're having that conversation from the beginning. they have the resources to do it and it wasn't done in the past quite honestly because
um the data centers were inefficient, the technology was inefficient and maybe they didn't they didn't really consider the long-term effects. They didn't know the long-term effects of the first especially the first generation
data centers. >> Agreed. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Let's go down the list of the ecology education grants for bat boxes. I think we can take this uh off of unfinished
business because we were denied the grant. So, >> yeah, unfortunately we didn't get any grants. There's a lot of competition for money right now. >> Yeah. >> Um we can keep plugging away and looking for other grants.
some other >> Thank you, Barbara, for trying. >> Yes. Thank you, Barbara. >> Yeah, >> winter salt week. >> Um, >> anything? >> I'm just going to be honest. I'm going to really put this off until the end of
summer, early fall when the colder season starts, at least till early fall. >> Okay. >> Um, where it's I think it resonates a little bit better. >> Okay. >> Urgency. Yeah. Okay.
Uh EC checklist of concerns for applications. >> Yeah, we can take that off too. Uh Courtney um Sparta day. One person, Alex, is going to be manning
the table by himself. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't everybody feel sorry for him and want to pitch in and help? >> I know. most of us set up or is it going to be set up for me or how's that going to work? >> Um, we're going to have to work on
coordinating this. Um, >> Margie's not here, so I'd like her recommend. >> But she But is she's going to be there potentially? >> Yes, I think she said she'd be jumping back and forth. Is that okay? >> It's I think so, right?
>> Yeah. And we'll need She has tables, right? LMPF or food shed. >> I have food shed tables if we need them for that date. Um, but I Alex, could you pick them up? I also have a canopy,
>> which is nice to have. So, you could borrow we could lend the canopy, I'm sure. And no problem. And chairs. A couple of chairs. That those are easy. And a couple of tables also. >> But we can do this tomorrow. Are you available tomorrow or Saturday morning?
Um, no, not Saturday morning. It would have to be tomorrow afternoon. Um, I I probably will be available after uh 2 o'clock. >> Okay. Um, >> Alex, what's your availability tomorrow?
>> Yeah, I should be around in the afternoon, like after >> Let's make around like four o'clock. >> Let's make it later. Yeah, >> because I just remembered that um I need to gather these things. Um >> yeah, let me know the time. I mean, I'm
I'm available tomorrow night, tomorrow evening. >> So, um you would need um uh two tables and the canopy >> probably or maybe even one table, but it's just me, right? We need two tables. >> Yeah, just one table and a canopy and a
couple and some chairs. >> One more. couple of chairs. Nick, are you around on Saturday? >> Let me double check real quick, but I don't think I will be. >> Yeah, I know. This is It's a busy time
for you. >> I don't want to worsen. >> Um, so we have to get materials together. Um, I can we can do that tomorrow, Courtney. I guess I can pick them up. Where would where would you
guys be meeting? >> You and Alex for tables and stuff. >> You would be driving over to my townhouse. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I would help you load up. >> Okay. >> And then um I was also going to say that on Saturday I would try to be What time
does it end at 4:00? >> Actually, I think it's five, but you don't have to. >> People pack up. >> Do they let you pack up? >> Oh, yeah. >> Early. Okay. Um, I could be there like at about 3:00 just to help you with the table a
little bit, you know, manning that and then we could put the things items back in my car and that would save >> on Saturday. >> On Saturday at the very end, last two hours I'm thinking of the event.
>> Okay. Okay. Then where do I get the stuff from you, Neil, or from Courtney? >> Uh, I I could pick it up and bring it over. So you don't have to come here. >> So you'll bring it to the spar today? >> I mean, no, I won't. I I have to go to
South Jersey around. So I can get it tomorrow and bring it to you when you when you meet up >> with Chris. >> Take it to Chris's. Yeah. >> Or I can I can drop it off with you um prior to that if >> Yeah. I'm leaving early tomorrow
morning, but I should be back by 2 o'clock. But you could put it on my front porch if you wanted to. >> All right. >> Um, yeah, we'll need the banner. Uh, whatever materials.
>> Okay. >> There's probably like there were a bunch of boxes, but one was just a duplicate like with more coloring books, so you won't need that. So, it's probably just like the one that has all the different handouts and then like some of the coloring books. So, I'm gonna need like all of them.
>> Okay. >> Yes. >> And then what about the um you were saying last time about the game? Was that ever returned to >> Ant? No. No, we it's still here. So, I can pick I'll I'll pick that up tomorrow, too. So the the game, the
banners and all the materials and um you need something to weigh down the the canopy >> in case it flies away. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> So what what um Kim has done? Yeah. We did that here. The jugs. Yeah. Filling up gallon jugs with water. have a bunch of them available. But I don't know. >> I have jugs. >> Oh, you do? >> Yeah, I have jugs, but the problem is a
lot of them still have water that I haven't used in them. But that's kind of good as long as I get the jugs back. >> Are they sealed? >> Yeah, a couple of them are with distilled water. >> I'm just looking at the weather. May not may not even need the canopy. It's high
as 65 degrees on Saturday. >> Yeah, it may not even be necessary. It's going to be what temperature? >> A high of 65 degrees. >> I don't That's true. Unless the sun, we want the sun, right? If it's 65 degrees.
>> So, >> we want to sit in the sun all day. >> Yeah. >> Make it look more professional. Then we can put our banners across the back. >> All right. Sounds like a plan. I'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll take
>> the canopy is a little tricky to set up. Um, but the people there are very helpful. >> Okay. >> They'll be able to help you grab an end. >> All right. And we need the location, too. Do Did they
Did they give you uh when you registered, did they tell you what where we were? I >> They didn't say specifically. They said they had se spaces left in section B and C, >> right? Yeah. >> Yeah, that was They didn't really give
him a specific location, but I can email them again tomorrow you want. >> Okay. And and uh what is setup time? Do you remember? Oh, I can look all this up tomorrow. >> I can't remember.
I think they want you in in there by a certain time. Anything else we have to think about for Sparta day? Maybe we've just done um like a just have a sheet of paper. If anyone wants to join our green team or fill any of
the spots on the environmental commission, you could always promote that. Yes, we have a we had the one we started on Earth Day and and uh Courtney was able to find the the old the old list of um people who signed up in the past. So,
I sent a email out to all everybody who had signed up to ask if they would want to if they'd be able to volunteer for Saturday and help and only one person responded and said he couldn't do it. >> So, we'll see. Maybe somebody will
respond by in between the time before to uh Saturday. Um the in environmental resource inventory uh the other grant that we were denied um we have I asked Courtney to schedule try to
schedule the debriefing for next week sometime. Um, so whoever is available at whatever time you can Courtney can Yeah. >> And you said you're better in the morning, Chris.
>> Generally, yeah. Mhm. >> Or late, you know, late in the afternoon. >> They don't they only go till 3:00. >> Okay. and we can figure out where to go from there as far as uh
maybe applying for another Highlands Council grant >> or figure out how we could we might be able to develop it on our own using Yeah, I don't know that there are so many resources
available to do it but it might be possible but see anything else under unfinished business. >> I would just want to bring it back to data centers but uh the environmental resource
inventory would fit nicely with kind of that conversation. So that's that's kind of another reason to form something and then say we need to back fill. >> Oh, absolutely. And it's also >> Yeah.
>> Right. And al also part of the master plan re-examination too. It would be >> very very helpful for that. >> Yes. >> I think with the Highlands Council though that grant funding it was kind of a rolling um decision. So, I don't think we're
going to have to wait a long time to find out whether we would get it or not. And I think it's pretty much you just go through the process and you have a good likelihood that you get it. >> Okay. >> So, that's probably something we should look into. >> Yeah.
>> Who would be in charge of doing that and filling out that request information? >> Courtney, do do we have a grant writer now? I know. We We did and
they're no longer That person is no longer here. >> Yeah. No, that person's no longer here. So, I don't know who it will be. >> Yeah. >> That's something I'll have to me and Michelle will have to figure because she was the one doing all the Sustainable New Jersey grant stuff.
>> And I know I'll probably start taking over any of the grants that we want to get. So, I don't know who's going to be our grant writer at the moment. Yeah. So, so >> just wondering, >> but I wonder it's already was written, right, for sustainable Jersey. So, I
wonder if we can recycle good chunks of it, right, and just put it into a new application. >> Yeah, >> good thinking. Yeah, that's a good idea. >> What about the tree ordinance? I forgot.
>> I haven't looked at that yet. I wanted just to uh go back to that because we did talk about that at our master plan. >> You did >> subcommittee mini meeting and >> I have to dig that out again. I could actually >> and you remember because we may not be
compliant if we don't have that. >> Yeah, it's it's part of the MS4 requirements. >> I don't think we're we're compliant with MS4 yet. There's nothing on our uh township website and there should there would be I think
>> what what is a tree ordinance like what what what is it apply to? >> Um tree removal and replacement. >> So >> what else was in it? >> So well yeah I I don't know what the
latest version was. I think Barbara had worked on something. >> Um, but >> so I don't have a copy of that, handy, >> but it it would >> many towns, municipalities have kind of
regulations where you couldn't just take 90% of the trees down in the property. And if you do, if they're a certain diameter, then you have to replace them with more of a a smaller diameter. but
many more. So that's also kind of part of that that other um ordinance and where if a proposed um project would remove um established trees that there's like a
3 to one replacement and then there's like a there's some numbers that quantify if it's established by acreage and by uh and or by diameter of main trunk, but we
would typically like and then there's some over um crossover with native plants too. So, we've talked about that too. It's like if with our landscaping stuff um you know, we want to do natives, but
then natives are known to our native uh deer populations. So what are you know some non-natives that don't spread noninvasives? Non-native noninvasive. So but the tree stuff maybe we could put
that back on unfinished business. And then uh if Barbara's here next time she she would probably be very good to speak about that. >> Yes. And uh were you going to try to get a copy of
the where it was left with the township engineer? Maybe we could get a copy of the last version of the ordinance that Barbara put together or see if it's been changed by the engineer.
>> I'll see if I can find it and I'll I'll try to find. So that would apply to like would it apply to homeowners like want to cut down a tree or just just project focus? >> I don't recall the ordinance it but I I
think it does. >> I've I've seen it where uh where I grew up we had a tree warden. Um, so I mean it can sound overly regulatory, so I would want to see what it is. But
>> a lot of townships have shade tree committees, commissions, >> but I think if you're starting to get worried about like, oh, I got these trees that are 80, 90 years old and they're about to fall down, I
don't necessarily want to. It's not necessarily If they're like a risk, then you would Oh, yeah. Obviously. So, yeah. >> And then the asht tree removal too. >> Yeah. >> But then, you know, when those when
those canopies cut come down, then >> what do we replace them with? >> So, this it would be good to have guidance. >> Yeah, it would be really good to have guidance. We don't want people cutting down their backyard so they have a view
of the water gap. >> And they have done that in many >> people have done that. >> Yeah. Clear cut their backyard and put in ground pool which I I saw >> recently. >> Okay. I think uh unless anybody else has
anything under unfinished business, we can move on to a new business item, which is actually old business. But um in was it 2021
or 2022, we worked with uh the Ruckers Cooperative Extension and they installed rain gardens at Pope John. Um the three three or four. Um, and I happened to take a spin by there
last week and noticed that they haven't been maintained. They're there's mug work in all over the first one. There's some some things are growing, but most of them look pretty barren, so they haven't
been maintained. Um, I don't remember. Do you remember the environmental science teacher. >> Oh, texture. >> Yeah, maybe we can >> maybe we can start a dialogue on this because >> Yeah, >> you know that that they spent money on
this. >> Um and they're finished with their AP exams now. >> Yeah. >> So, they will have some time. She can take them out. In fact, they'll do that right now. >> Not much time. >> When is school out? >> Um
>> I think Pup John gets out before Sparta does. I think it's June 5th. It says when graduation is I saw on the >> June 5th or 6th maybe. That sounds right because Sparta's out like 17th I think
after all the finals. Sounds right. >> 17th did you say Sparta >> for Sparta? Yeah. >> Yeah. So well if anything you know they can take it up in the fall. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We could start start that dialogue. >> I'll try to reconnect with her. Good idea. >> Wonder if this time if they work on it, they could protect it from the deer somehow because I'm sure the deer had something to say about there not being much left there.
>> Well, I I imagine that they put mostly deer resistant plants. It was a tricky spot because this was before I was on the environmental commission, but I was involved in connecting the environmental commission with this grant opportunity for Pope
John. And the site is really rocky and we had to go down quite deep to even get the plants. >> Yeah, it's the same same type of uh stone that's um that you'll see in the Beyond building just few doors down. So
it's basically a rock basin that we had to clear the rocks out to get the plants established. >> Yeah, that I remember taking the T and making a little hole and trying to stuff in this this plant and just saying grow.
>> But um yeah, there wasn't much soil development there at all. I think it was all backfill >> to create that parking lot area. Yeah. How prevalent is the mug wart already in there? >> It was mostly around the edges, but there it was, you know, significant. And
and in one of them, the other ones had uh uh had some too. One of some other other weeds that probably weren't meant to be there. Um what was that? What was her name? Chris >> Judy L. >> Judy
L. >> LF. And she's still there. I'm pretty sure she is. Yeah. Okay. Good. Uh,
anything else under new business? I um have one thing. I did participate in that in invasive species uh or native plant restoration. um that was in Byum last last Friday. Um
so I I helped turned out to be the envir the Byum Environmental Commission chair had organized it. We went pulled out a bunch of barberry. It's nasty stuff. Even through my my hiking pants, my legs
got all full holes. It was It's nasty. But uh they they were had another one scheduled for this past Sunday that was rained out, but um there's another one on Saturday, which
is spar day, so nobody can probably do that here, but I'm sure there'll be other ones. And actually something that's an idea. Maybe we could do some something like that in
some of our That's an idea for >> very hard work. >> Anybody have anything else? >> I do just have to say on with our with our trails, I know like talking about Sparta Glenn earlier
has very few invasive species on. If you walk through there, it's basically all native plants. It's really really nice. Um yeah, just one of those rare places where you don't have invasives. >> Just some just observation I I've made when I when I've been up there.
>> Oh. Oh, that's good. >> I mean, obviously there's some, but like you see like you go there in the fall, you see a you see golden rod, you see, you know, I saw when I was there last last time I saw some I saw a bunch of service berry uh bushes and trees,
right? Obviously the large deciduous trees which are all native. So >> yeah. Oh, that's >> kind of a gem honestly. >> Yeah. I when I when we did the ribbon cutting I I I hiked up to the top there and it was still there there wasn't much
blooming so I didn't notice anything at that time. But I know where I mountain bike on Sparta Mountain. Uh some of those trails, they're all overgrown with burning bush and then there's barberry all over too. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Unless anybody has anything else. Can I have a motion for a German? >> I'll make that motion. >> Thank you, Rob. Can I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Christine, all in favor? >> I I >> Thank you.