Hi, welcome everybody to the Township of Sparta Environmental Commission meeting of Thursday, December 11th, 2025. Uh the meeting is called to order at 7:03. Um this is our last meeting in 2025.
Uh we are live in the council chambers at the municipal building and also on YouTube backspartatwpstreams. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided to the public and the press on January 10th, 2025 by delivering to the press and posting on the township
website a copy of this notice. Um first item on the agenda is salute to the flag. If everybody would please join me. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Emily, roll call, please. Deputy Mayor Margie Murphy, >> here. >> Chair Kimberly Null, >> here. >> Vice Chair Neil Sarowine,
>> here. >> Christine Dunar, >> here. Ted Gaul, Christine Rogers >> here, >> Barbara Kazulka, Robert Otto >> here, >> student liaison Nicholas Drato. Thank you. >> Thanks, Emily.
Um, everybody, Emily is moving to a new role in January officially or at the end of December, >> possibly Monday. >> Oh, yes, real soon. Okay. >> It keeps changing. So, >> all right. and Courtney is going to be our new uh secretary. So, welcome
Courtney. >> Welcome. >> Congratulations. >> Yay. >> All right. Um approval of minutes. November 13, 2025. So, that's our last meeting that we had since um the fourth
Thursday in November was Thanksgiving and we were not here. Um >> I have two minor corrections on page two. paragraph on the bottom uh in the sentence
that says when phase one of this project required surveyors to go near residents properties to lay it right now says our boundaries and it should say out and then on the bottom of that paragraph
phase one trail segment will not be near any homes. She's missing the word be. Any other changes? All right. Do I have a motion to accept the minutes with those two minor changes? So, second page, last
paragraph, replacing the word are without and adding the word be in the second to last sentence. Maybe it's the last sentence. No, second to last sentence. >> So, move. >> Thank you, Christine. Do I have a second? >> I'll second.
>> Thanks, Margie. All in favor? I >> I >> I thank you. All right, we are catching up with minutes. So, this is May 9th of 2024. Um, is this the last of 2024?
We're close to it. >> Um, that's the last excluding the two that I don't have any >> we don't have a recording, but >> Okay. So, this would catch us up. >> Okay, great. Um, did anybody have any changes to the May 9th of 2024 minutes?
I mean, there's super minor. Christine Rogers, page two, uh, apostrophe after the sour. >> What? >> No, I like it. We should use the right punctuation. >> I'm just, you know,
Gotta find something. >> All right. Any others? You found another one, Rob. >> No, I was going to make a motion to accept with the minor change. >> Go ahead. >> I'll make a motion to accept with that minor change. >> Okay. Do >> I found one more? Oh, I'm sorry. Um I I
believe this is uh it would be to uh page three and it's the sort of the middle of page three and um it's that I stated on Saturday there will be an invasive species removal day that should
be not Bear Creek but Blair >> Creek. Thank you. >> All right, Rob, you want to restate your motion? I'll uh make a motion to accept with those two minor changes.
>> A second. Thank you, Christine. Thanks, Rob. All in favor? >> I I have to abstain. I wasn't here. >> Okay. >> And one abstension. All right. Thank you. All right. Tonight we have Dylan Medici.
Okay. Good. uh protecting the highlands and you're from the New York and sorry, New Jersey Highlands >> coalition, >> right? Um it's easier if you want to use one of these mics if you want to sit down or you could even stand and use
that mic. >> Okay, awesome. >> I think I want to stand behind. >> Yeah. Do we want to go down there so that we can actually see? I think so. That's what we usually do. Yeah.
It is not on. I cannot control it yet. >> There we go. >> Oh. >> Oh, that's your looks like I can get. Oh, there we go. Perfect. All right. Can Oh, there. That's perfect.
>> Nice. It's good when technology works. >> Yes. >> All right. So, my name is uh Dylan Medici. I am the director of outreach and education at the New Jersey Highlands Coalition. We are a nonprofit based uh in Boomin. Actually, we just moved our office from one side of Bhutin to another. Uh so, we're actually now at
the historic Maxfields Firehouse, which we just completed our move in uh just this month. So, uh, we've been in Bootin for I don't know, for longer than I've been here. Uh, probably about, uh, a decade at this point. And, uh, just make sure I don't go over time. About how
long should I be up here? >> All right. 20 minutes because I can go a lot longer than 20 minutes. >> 20 to 30. >> Okay. Perfect. >> All right. >> People have taken it off stand before. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I think I think this is okay.
Um so the New Jersey Highlands Coalition is part of this uh really fourstate uh geohysical province of the Appalachian Mountains and uh the Highlands as the name suggests are a little bit higher than the rest of New Jersey. Um the the geohysical region itself starts
somewhere around Readington or Reading, Pennsylvania and sometimes it's called the Reading Prong and it's significant in that it's uh mostly a metamorphic rock region of the Appalachian Mountains. uh starts in in south southeastern PA, runs through New
Jersey, through New York, uh through Connecticut. Uh a lot of people, if they're active hikers, probably are familiar with the Hudson Highlands of uh southern New York, but not so familiar with the New Jersey Highlands. And uh actually, the rocks of the Highlands uh
and the northeastern part of the United States share uh similar geography with the highlands of Scotland and uh parts of uh of Norway. Uh it's some of the oldest geology in the world. Uh they actually predate the uh superc continent
pangia which is the superc continent where most of the dinosaurs existed on uh and uh survived that breakup. Um, so, uh, they're quite old. Um, and actually includes most of, uh, northwestern New Jersey, but it doesn't include this far
far northwestern part of New Jersey, uh, which is, uh, you know, the areas around the Delaware River, that is the Rigiden Valley region, which is part of the Appalachins, but not part of the Highlands themselves. So, if you look at this ge geological cross-section map of
New Jersey, northern New Jersey is this huge uh rainbow of different uh types of rocks. Um, and if you look at southern New Jersey by comparison, it's like three different colors because that's all the uh uh the uh Atlantic coastal
plane region. Uh up here, it is very uh I'm going to put this back. It's better up here. It is very differentiated by different types of rocks that have been formed over um the you know immense pressure and time and folding of uh of uh northern New Jersey's geology. And
that's really what makes it uh unique. We'll get a little bit into that a little bit later. But uh politically uh the Highlands are also important because they uh they are uh protected by uh an act of the state legislature because they provide the majority of New Jerseys
population with drinking water. So, uh, this map here shows, uh, water supplied, um, throughout northern New Jersey by the Highlands. This >> Yeah, >> feel free to make yourself, >> but no, I don't have anything to put the
mouse on. Uh, well, you see this dark blue region? Uh, that's the highlands themselves. And it's kind of, uh, silly to think that an area provides its own water supply, but in most of New Jersey, uh, that's actually not the case. So, we see I don't know if you can move my mouse. You see up here, uh, the area where
Newark and Jersey City are, they are, that area is all blue. And that indicates they get they get above 95% of their water from over here because they own uh together about a dozen reservoirs up in the highlands. Um, because the
water at the Payic is terribly, terribly polluted and it has been terribly polluted since the industrial revolution. So around the time of the 1900s, Newark's water was so bad uh that it had a reputation as some of the worst and unhealthiest water in America at that time. So they went to the
hinterlands of the Highlands, which was still relatively forested. Um you know, at that point it wasn't as forested as it is today because most of the forests had been cut down throughout the 1800s to power New Jerseys numerous uh forges
and furnaces for the iron industry. Uh but Newark came out here because the water at the mouth of the Pacific was just just terribly polluted. Uh people were dying left and right of color and other waterbborne illnesses. So they came up here, they purchased a bunch of land and they built a number of
reservoirs to provide uh their water and they provide a bulk of that water to surrounding towns. So it's not just Newark that is getting its water from the highlands. It's the communities around Newark. Um down here you also get a lot of water because a lot of the headarters of northern New Jersey like
the Raritin, the Walkill, the Musket Kong, uh tributaries of the Delaware, um pretty much all the tributaries of the Pacic, they all start in this region up here and they flow downhill as water tends to do. So even down here in South Jersey, you see that they get a portion
of their water from the highlands because that portion of the waters, you know, the Delaware runs right down there and we have tributaries of the Delaware like the Peekquest that begin up on the highlands in the northern part of the state. So uh New Jersey today has a population of about 10 million people
and about 7 million um particularly those who live up in the northern part of the state get their water from uh in some places up here in Esparta. Um you know Sparta's parts of it border lake of Pakong and uh lake of Pakong is the headarters for the musketong. So you see
a lot of water supplied uh to the the western part of the state as well. Um the highlands themselves as a political region not a geohysical region uh when it was uh designated as uh uh you know as part of the highlands act which was passed in 2004. Um the
Highlands region uh comprises 88 municipalities in seven counties. So that's Sussex, Warren, Morris, Pac, Bergen, Hunan, and Somerset. And really Morris and Warren uh have the largest proportions that are in the Highlands.
And if you look at a map, a good approximate eastern border of the Highlands is uh that Interstate 287. Um, and 78 is kind of uh almost a southern border if you want to think of it approximately like that.
Um, so a little bit of a history lesson. The highlands themselves, you know, prior to uh uh the arrival of Europeans uh were home to the uh indigenous uh Lape people and it was uh collectively along with New York known as the Lape Hoking, which
is uh the land of the Lape. And uh today uh some of the Lape still live up in the Ramapo Mountains of New York. Uh but getting up into the 17th century, European settlers uh started settling away from the shore regions and they easily access regions. So they moved up
into the New Jersey highlands and they found that the area was very rich in resources um not just uh game and fish because of its uh numerous waters and mountains, but also iron. And iron is what uh fueled the early industrial
industry um in New Jersey. Uh there are about 500 iron mines or iron workings in northern New Jersey almost entirely centered in the Highlands. And those mines continue up into New York. And uh we ran into a little bit of trouble with the remain remains of those mines uh
when one of them collapsed and shut down both directions of Interstate 80 for about half a year, which uh made it an absolute mess. And that mine was actually or that collapse was actually linked to this mine here, which is the Hiburnia mine in
Rockaway, which was the most extensive and most productive mine in northeastern uh America up until the iron industry started leaving uh New Jersey and going out towards the Midwest where iron was cheaper. Um so this mine in particular
uh you know provided a significant number of uh cannonballs and arms and tools that were used in the revolution and civil war. And there are also mines up in Sparta that provided um some of that material as well. Um this is actually New Foundland, but
this uh up here is part of the Edison mine which was uh active in Sparta where Thomas Edison uh pioneered new type of iron extraction process which while it didn't work out too well for him economically uh wounded up to uh uh you know spurring a pretty significant
cement industry. Uh but like I said uh the highlands are significant on a state level uh because even though the region itself by area is only about 15 actually about 17% of New Jersey's total land area it provides drinking water for about 70% of its
population and uh between New Jersey and New York more people visit the New York and New Jersey highlands um than about yellow the number of visitors that visit Yellowstone and Grand Canyon national parks each year combined. That's people who are coming out to hike, to fish, to
kayak, to hunt. Um, and a lot of those people, you know, aren't necessarily coming from very far away. There are people that live here and, uh, visit this place because it's a lot easier to visit a place when it's right in your backyard rather than having to travel a thousand miles to get there. So, it's got an outstanding uh, number of natural
resources. Um, it's got a huge diversity of forests. Um, even in Sparta, if you walk like maybe, you know, 5 miles, you might be going through a half a dozen different types of forests. There could be oak forest, it can be maple forest, there are even some uh some uh rocky
summit uh oak uh heath type forests up on some of the higher areas. Um, and so it has a real high diversity and it also is home to the uh most uh to the largest contiguous mature forest in New Jersey outside of Pinelands.
And uh for these reasons um the integrity of its forest, the uh immense natural beauty and uh uh you know the number of natural resources but especially uh the water supply. The highlands were protected by a bipartisan
act of the New Jersey legislature in 2004 which established this Highlands Act. So in 2004 they passed the act. um they uh formed a Highlands Council in uh 2006 or actually sorry I'll get into that in a minute but they uh formed a
Highlands Council and by 2008 they produced a regional master plan. Now the New Jersey Highlands Coalition originally was part of the New Jersey Conservation Foundation. It was formed in 1988 to advocate specifically to for the passage of this act. And in 2006
after the act was passed, uh we spun off into our own nonprofit and we've been that way ever since. So what the Highlands Act really does is uh it designates towns that are included. Um it's it splits them into kind of these two different types of uh
of areas whether it could be a planning area where they have to essentially you know adhere to a very few core rules of the Highlands regional master plan or a uh a preservation area where towns uh have to conform to the regional master
plan. Um I want to make a distinction here that preservation does not mean protection. So things can still be developed in the protect in the preservation area. Uh protection does not mean that is protected from impacts like development or things like that. Um
talents can also choose to uh conform their planning area to the regional master plan which makes it very similar to acting as the preservation area. And um Sparta is a town that uh has uh it's about 50/50 split between the
preservation of the planning area. Uh like I said in the preservation area um you know municipal specifically municipal zoning um has to conform to the master plan. Um but the planning area in Sparta is not conformed. So I
mean aside from uh you know having to make sure that uh more water is not being extracted than is available in the area. Um the regional master plan has very little uh you know influence over in the planning areas compared to the preservation area. Sparta also has a uh
a significant amount of preserved areas. So those are things like um you know municipal, county, nonprofit uh owned lands, farmlands um and uh you know water uh wildlife management areas um and a significant
amount of scenic resources. Um, Sparta also has some very high quality for forests that although they're not old growth forests, they're mature forests, uh, still provide a huge benefit to, uh, uh, providing water, uh, both in terms
of quality and quantity. So, this is kind of just some technical definition uh, definitions of Sparta's uh, uh, natural resources. Sparta is split up into 13 subwaterheds. Uh most of them are pretty high-quality wersheds because Sparta has some pretty high
quality forests and having highquality water depends on having high quality forests. Uh but even though the water is fairly high quality, um Sparta definitely still has a net water availability deficit which means that uh Spart the subwaterses in Sparta are
consuming more water than is available. And what we're seeing uh especially in the last few weeks with New Jersey declaring a uh a drought warning is that even areas that have high quality forests and lots of water resources might not necessarily have a lot of
water. Um but Smart is is is in a in many ways better than than most towns because uh of the limited amount of development in the town. So this is just a map of uh Sparta's uh subwaterheds. So we see uh
on the right that is the net water availability in Sparta's various subwaterersheds and you can see that most of the area is in a net water availability deficit even though that water is fairly high quality. So there's good water but there's not a lot of it.
Um and then uh we can compare the watershed uh quality directly to forest integrity. So in areas that have high forest integrity we see are directly correlated to having high water quality.
Um so the highlands act uh in some areas in the preservation area do limit development uh to make sure that New Jersey still has a sustainable water supply source and uh we see that even though those areas are preserved they're not necessarily protected. So we still see u a number of inappropriate developments that uh impact water
quality in those pres preserved areas and also in the planning area where the rules are less uh strict compared to the regional master plan. Um so what we do as a coalition is we are at our heart a grassroots advocacy organization. Uh we're active in all of
the 88 municipalities in the highlands and we try to limit inappropriate development in those areas. make make sure that the state adheres to the regional master plan both at the state level and at the county and municipal levels. Uh because New Jersey is a home
rule state where uh you know towns are more or less free to come up with their own ordinances and land use. Um it can still be very difficult to uh make sure that that land use uh adheres to the regional master plan because even today uh you know 20 years after the act uh
there is still not a a very uh good awareness of what the Highlands Act is. And uh we are uh fueled by our member organizations. Uh we have 120 member organizations um who uh work with us um uh you know on a variety of issues
whether it's at the municipal level or at the state level. Uh at least two of those are active in Sparta. Uh Sparta Responsible Development and New Jersey Forest Watch um are members of ours who we work with um to make sure that uh we continue to have uh good uh water quality and we preserve our natural
resources and uh we're able to really punch above our weight um with that help uh because we are a small organization. We're only six full-time staff plus an events planner uh who is part-time. So uh we really uh rely on you know people who are active in communities to let us
know what's going on and we are uh very fortunate to have some uh active membership and these are uh some of our uh members and people we work closely with. Um so a number of those are active in in Sparta today. So I am open to any questions that folks
have. Um, one of the things you mentioned was that currently >> Can you explain how we would >> uh the best way to do that would be to actually reach out to the Highlands Council which is the D agency. We're the
nonprofit advocacy organization and we've actually existed first. So, if you're going to, you know, make complaints that they stole that we stole their name, no, they actor stole our name. Uh, but you would reach out to the executive director of the Highlands Council, which is Ben Spinelli, and you would ask how the town can conform and
what conform benefits conformance would bring you. Um, so, uh, one thing that we see in New Jersey is that development pressure does not decrease over time. It only becomes more and more desirable to develop in New Jersey. It becomes more expensive to develop in New Jersey. So
we're seeing a lot of times uh developments are being uh proposed in places where they're not appropriate. So uh we get flak a lot of times because you know people claim that the New Jersey Highlands Coalition is anti-development which is not the case. We are anti- inappropriate development. So when those developments occur um in
wetland areas and the Highlands has stricter wetlands regulations than the rest of the state because of its importance to the water supply. So we are anti- you know inappropriate development in wetlands um in water supply areas in high integrity forest areas and uh especially Warren County we
are very much against um the development on active farmland because what you see is you know you've got two interstates running through from straight basically straight from the port of New York and New York straight west into the rest of the country and it's really easy to get
those goods out and put them somewhere that's nice and already pretty flat. flat and uh farmland is really the the uh the go-to site to be developed. And if you develop farmland, you know, you've permanently destroyed that farmland. You can't go back from there. So, uh we try to limit development in
areas that are already developed or areas that are compatible with, you know, development. So, um conforming with the regional master plan would basically make um the planning area very similar to the preservation area. So that would bring uh protections against
um expanding impervious surface coverage in forest areas. Um and uh you know it would uh bring with it some uh benefits to uh developing in wetlands. So in the preservation area vernal pools are considered wetlands which have their own
uh buffers. Um so preservation is generally uh pretty good. Yeah. So if if Sparta wanted to conform, they would have to pass that as a resolution at the town council level. So uh they would have to, you know, obviously they would work with the town council, they would almost certainly be
require required to pass a water use and conservation management plan. their uh you know uh town master plan would have to conform to the Highlands regional master plan and uh uh a few other things. Um you know there might be other requirements depending on the other resources that Sparta has. Um there
might be a lake shed water water management plan or something like that. Um but we've seen um at least in the Lake of Pakong area uh Sparta and Apakong are the two last towns that have not conformed their planning area. um every other town in in Bakong has
conformed at this point and it brings a lot of benefits with it and that uh towns that have conformed get funding from the Highlands Council for all the costs of plan implementation and the council is I wish they were better funded because um it provides a lot of
funding to towns for costs that are very difficult to get you know through you know town councils and um it's becoming more and more competitive these days because of the lack of funding. through the Highlands Council. So, they're choosing to, uh, in a lot of cases to only fund projects in towns that are
conformed. So, uh, of course, I would strongly recommend that sport. I would, uh, you know, pursue that line of thought if it's if it makes sense for them. Uh, we've seen I don't know what the specific number is, but I'm pretty sure we've seen at least a dozen towns conform over the course of 2025. It's
been a really miraculous to see towns that you never would have thought seen conforming 10 years ago conform. Uh just off the top of my head, Roxbury has conformed this year. Mount Arlington has conformed. Jefferson has conformed. Um I think by the end of the Well, actually,
no, they're not going to meet this month, but uh probably by January, both mendoms will have conformed. Um and there's only 88 towns, so there's only so much conformance that you can do. What's the what is the funding that the coalition or the council provides?
>> Um it has to be uh it's restricted to implementation of the regional master plan. So uh think things like lakeshed studies uh recreation plans, branding plans, things like that. um uh things for like uh for zoning uh
you would get more specific information from that you know the Highlands Council specific things from the Highlands Council's website. >> This would be a good time to explore conformance because if you were to revise the master plan and then want to do conformance then you might have to
wind up doing another master plan. Um and the Highlands Council, you know, if you were considering plan conformance, they might pay for possibly the costs of the master plan. It depends on how much has to how how many studies have to be done to explore, you know, how far off the master plan is for performance. And
in some towns, um you know, some, you know, environmentally minded towns, you know, the master plan winds up being pretty close to what is expected for performance. Um, I haven't seen Sparta's master plan, so I really couldn't tell you specifics.
What would you say that at an environmental commission level that work? >> Well, for the Highlands Coalition's mission, we uh uh really rely on towns to uh reach out to us to work with us if
they find uh projects that concern them in their town. Um so we are very much a grassroots advocacy organization. We rely on people who are active at the grassroots level to come to us if they have uh questions. Um I mean you could also go to the Highlands Council for more um regional master plan focus
questions. Um but at the EC level um I would say really just uh having a good relationship with the Highlands Council. Um, I don't know if you've had Ben Spinelli come to speak at your town council, um, to see if conformance makes sense for you, but that's a good uh,
first step for the council perspective of things, for the coalition perspective of things, what we do as a nonprofit. Um, it's just, uh, you know, keeping in touch with us, letting us know if we can, um, uh, be active in your community. Um, I think last year we've already attended the Sparta uh, Earth
Day event, and I'm looking forward to coming back again once you've decided next year. I don't know. I saw it on the agenda, so there might be a date set. Um, but we really just like being uh active in the community and learning uh what's what's happening here because there are 88 municipalities in the in the in the Highlands and it can be very
uh difficult to keep an eye on all of them at once. >> Is there a way to get a copy of that >> presentation? >> Uh, sure. Uh, let me uh know what your email is, I guess, right on a piece of paper. I can send it to you. >> I can absolutely send it. Well, I've already sent it to uh Christine, so
maybe Christine wants to share it. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And of course, we are happy to uh always uh have a conversation about how to interpret the regional master plan because uh there is a liazison at the Holland Council for Sparta. I think it
might be Allison Bitner. Um which you can reach out to for technical questions, but there are also um you know things that the council might not be able to weigh in on because they are a D agency. Is there
70% of the water comes from the >> I'd say that drinking water for 70% of the state's population comes from the highlands. >> Yes. So >> just the entire state.
>> Yeah. So it's the 70% of New Jerseys entire population gets some or all of its drinking water from the highlands. Um, and that could be, you know, whether they get it directly from a reservoir or it could just be a constituent of what they drink from, so for like the Delaware River, you have water being fed
into the Delaware River from the Highlands from uh, tributaries that start up here. >> I've been glancing at lately about management restored. you know anything about this project
that involves >> I don't it depends on what you mean by restored so Sparta Mountain has been the subject of uh logging every year by uh the new well not by the fish and the division of fish and wildlife but the division of fish and wildlife has written a forest stewardship plan that
includes logging somewhere between 10 and 20 acres every year um and they contract that out to companies that might be from New York or Canada or wherever they come from uh who bid on a contract to carry out the logging. So, we have been very active against logging on Sparta Mountain and anywhere really
on public land in New Jersey uh because it's one it's uh it goes against the you know the purpose of the regional master plan and we would argue that um it should not be allowed on the regional master plan since a disturbance of 10 acres or more would be considered a major development according to the
master plan. That's 10 ac 10 acres of essentially uh complete forest destruction. Um so we have been active with New Jersey New Jersey Forest Watch for I don't know how many years. Certainly longer than I've been here um trying to urge Fish and Wildlife to not do that
and uh they are not required to respond to public comments when they develop a forest stewardship plan. Uh it's not a statutory requirement. They are not required to give notice of it. They are not required to accept no uh comments for it. Although in the past they have as a courtesy allowed us to submit
public comments and we have found that uh they are not uh conducive to having a conversation about um you know stopping logging on Sparta Mountain and they are actually in the process of developing another 10-year plan right now for 2027 to 2020 2037 uh which we are again uh
extremely uh against but um and a D is really its own organization. they're not required to accept any comments on it and uh they certainly um since they manage it and it is not under the jurisdiction of Sparta as a municipality
they are not required to uh respond to any comments by the town either. >> Um I had people texting asking if you could give the mic to people asking questions so they can hear because it's being live streamed. I don't know. Actually, I don't know how
far this is going to reach, so maybe you should come up and >> Yeah, >> thank you. >> As far as Hi. As far as Christine's question about uh restoration, I think it was they're calling this logging habitat restoration if I'm not mistaken.
>> Yes, it's uh called habitat restoration. You'll also find it uh you also find it called by a lot of different names. early successional habitat creation, um, you know, habitat manipulation, restoration. Um, it's really just all different names for the same thing. They're logging it. They call it a seed
tree harvest or whatever they want to call it, but it's essentially a clearcut. They'll leave, you know, trees spaced every so often as seed trees uh to donate seed bankank to what's going to grow back later. Uh but what we see in New Jersey especially is that the forest doesn't grow back the same way as
it did before because of the influence of invasive species and because of the overabundance in deer. And we are working with the New Jersey Conservation Foundation to try and find a strategy to effectively manage New Jersey's overabundant deer population. But it's uh it's very difficult because currently
you know New Jersey uses hunters as a management technique which um hunting is not really supposed to be used for management. It's a sport. Um, and I can I can tell you go as having gone out hunting this week is that when you're looking for the deer, you never find them, especially in the forest. They're mostly all crowded around the suburbs.
So, New Jersey has a big deer problem. And, uh, what we're seeing happen on Sparta Mountain every time they log is what grows back is not what was there before. You want to? Um so I I think that we had explored uh
conformance and there was like different options we would go with highlands or the state and there was some like 30% hold back to determine uh con conformance from the promised funds. Do you know anything about that
or how it would work? >> Uh I do not. That would be more of a specific question to the Highlands Council. The conformance is a process and I I've seen towns conform and I'm not really familiar with the process that happens between the resolution to conform and the acceptance of the
petition at the Hounds Council and whatever happens eventually at you know at a later date when they're completely conformed but uh if you have any questions uh you can contact me. My email is uh dylan nj highlandscoalition.org.
Uh that is d y l an >> thank you very much for having me. Thank you, Dylan. That was very informative. I've heard some of those before, but really helpful. And um we will get a copy of that. Just repeating some of the things we already said for
the folks. uh that are out there on the internet. Um so yeah, if we get a copy of that presentation distributed to everybody, that'd be great, too. And then we can include it with the minutes. Um okay, next item. We have no
applications tonight and we have no correspondence, so we're opening up to public comment. Did anybody from the public want to speak tonight? Just come on up to the mic. Should we turn it around?
>> Oh, it's too far. >> Oh, it's too far. >> Sorry about that. >> Thanks, Emily. >> Hello. Oh my gosh, that's weird. Um, hi, my name is Lena Olette. I am the Americanore New Jersey watershed
ambassador for this term. Um, for anyone who's not familiar with the program, Americaore is a federal program and they give some funds to the D. And the main thing that I'm here to do in the community is lead environmental projects
and presentations on watershed education. I know that um the council or the commission has worked with some ambassadors in the past, but for anybody listening um that's a little bit more about the program and you can look it up online and see more. But um yeah, I am
looking to do environmental education presentations within the community. So they can be watershed education in general or any environmental issue that leads back to water. And additionally, um, I am seeking environmental projects
to do that would overall benefit the Walill watershed. Thank you. >> Thank you. You're welcome. Um um I had gone to the council meeting because um we have a farm outside of at
the edge of Sparta and um >> Can I'm sorry. Can you share your name, please? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh this I'm Marjgerie Castell and I live at 353 North Church Road in Sparta and my neighbor has been dumping
um truckloads of dirt and um well I don't really know it's all kinds of debris. I don't really know what's in the soil or anything. Um, so I went to the council meeting um on the 25th of last month.
>> Um, and they uh the engineer from the town has just gotten back to me. Um, so they're starting to get active, but um, I don't know anything about like when they I if they should test the soil and
the soil is um, dangerous like how how do I find out? Um if they're are will they be responsible to clean up this matter? >> They they who you mean the owners of the
>> Yeah. Um >> we do have a dirty dirt soil ordinance that was passed three or four years ago um that was uh based on just the problem that you're talking about. There was a site up in
Vernon that for approximately 10 years they had the same thing happening. And so based on Vernon's experience, this Sparta then said, "We also need a dirt ordinance like that." And so that ordinance says that you're supposed to
test the dirt before you allow it to be dumped on your property or have proof that it was tested. So, um, the environmental commission though we're not the enforcement branch of the municipality or the township of Sparta.
So, we're an advisory board. Um, so I can't really speak to this particular case. >> Okay. So, so it's it's 809 West Mountain Road is the address. So
it the dirty dirt is there like I have that like will they be notifying me? Well like I don't understand how um to find out cuz they just keep I don't know. >> I don't know. I don't know if you have
if they have to notify you what's happening if it's not your property that's uh having the issue with it. Um I'm not sure. But if I border that if I if I'm next to that property and I have two wells on my property,
>> you can certainly test your own wells. >> I have tested my wells, >> but that was before they were dumping and everything like that and before it started to rain again. >> Mhm. >> But I do have the tests from when it was clean.
>> That's great. >> So you don't we don't really know when they'll be getting back to me. No, we're not part we're not part of the enforcement part of Sparta Township. We're an advisory board. >> Okay. >> So,
>> if you're advisory, then >> advisory to the township. We're not advisory to the community necessarily. Personally, like I would get my own lawyer, but that's that I can't say that that's what you should do.
Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Have a good evening. >> Thank you, Margie. I just uh I know if you the engineer got back to you and they if you reach out to the town and can and communicate with them, that would be
your best plan of action. >> Okay. That would like I guess the town engineer has to do with this dirty dirt. Um uh >> that I'm not sure. >> Okay. >> The town has to follow the ordinances. >> Yes. that are established. So, that
resolution regarding the the dirty dirt ordinance, it you can look it up online and see what it says exactly. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Thank you. >> Hi, Rick Fenol up in uh Hayward Road. Um
I'm personal friends with Margie and her husband, so I just wanted to sort of fill in a couple gaps there. I think she just wants to really bring it to your attention as the environmental commission. She's already brought it to the town council. Some of the problem is the engineer has been aware of this for
for months now and and really no action has been taken. And through some of my advice, I told her go to the town council, go to the zoning board, go to the environmental commission. You saw Tap into Sparta just write a big article on this just yesterday. It's not just
whether the quality of dirt is good. There's erosion issues. There's wetlands issues. There's um other other concerns, environmental concerns that you should be aware of even if you're not an enforcement agency. Um I I don't know
what the process is for your committee to bring it forward and say, "Hey, we don't have enforcement, but there's some activity that we're concerned with from an environmental perspective, and maybe you could take that and and run with it." Right? So, um, I just want to sort
of back up Margie and Tom and fill in some gaps. >> I would just say I was at the last town council meeting and sounds like town council, the governing body is aware of the issue and the town engineer is uh,
working on it and so again, you know, we're we're advisory. Um, so I would just use use the professional engineer. >> Yeah, I think there's a big gap. Um, Rob, the code enforcement person has been
gone for several months now. Yep. >> And there seems to be a gap that this falls into where no one is owning that responsibility even though there's a position open. So there's potentially known issues or violations that no one's
really tracking and going after. And I know that doesn't fall on you, but like I said, there's been people aware of this for over a year. There's really been no act activity until it really got brought to the public in the last couple weeks.
And luckily, Jennifer Derek is involved, so she'll keep it public. So, all right. Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. And yes, thank you, Margie, for coming to town council because we were not aware And if you can keep coming to the town
council and finding out and asking questions, okay, and and contact the town. Thank you. Anyone else? All right. Um, moving on to reports.
Marchie, would you like to give on council? >> Well, we have been uh our meetings have had a couple we haven't had either. So, the I guess what mostly is the fact that the
cannabis has not passed. That was we are not going to have cannabis stores. Um, and pretty much that is it for right now when until the new we've got a new town
council member and until the beginning of the year. >> Okay, >> that's about it that's going on now. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And Rob, do you want to give update on the planning board? Uh well, Margie, I just want to 2521,
you guys voted to amend um chapter 18, the land management code just in regards to storm water. So, I thought that was notable. That was good. >> Some uh some some common sense changes.
Uh I think those came from the state and the federal government um just to basically >> bring us into conformance with climate change. So that I that was good to see. Um just has to do with like storm water
infiltration and imperous cover and reduction of flooding. Um but uh planning board um I was going to say Chris and Christine um you're you're
the liaison, right? So but you weren't there. >> No, but >> no. And um although I did did listen >> Yeah. >> to to the uh to the meeting. >> Yeah. And you had some comments when just I just wanted to because someone
had asked me uh you were made the liaison when for planning board >> right >> do you remember? >> I I I do remember that very distinctly >> 20 when 2023. Okay. Well anyway
>> yes I I remember I am the liaison to our planning board. >> Thanks. Um, so you had some comments the last meeting. It was we didn't have any applications. We're trying to fine-tune uh end of year
minutes. Uh, minor site plan is trying to kind of align our minutes with planning board minutes which now show a better reflection of who was there, what was discussed, um, and how votes went.
So, that's kind of been an effort, but we're getting there. Uh, and then, yeah, the other stuff was uh just discussion about our professionals, which I don't really feel like we need to. It was it was a little bit surprising. >> It was over the top.
>> Yeah. Okay. Yep. Enough said. Thank you. >> All right. Uh, we no longer have a trails committee lays on. So Neil, do you want to give master subcommittee? Master plan subcommittee. >> Sorry. >> Master plan subcommittee uh met on this
past Monday. I was unfortunately unable to attend um but uh it was mostly um internal business that was discussed although the uh >> Okay, sorry it wasn't lighting up. Uh
yeah, I I u missed the the master plan subcommittee meeting on Monday. Um but uh we will be presenting or they will be presenting the uh stakeholder meetings data at the planning board meeting on 1217
which is >> this coming Wednesday. >> Yeah. Yeah. Next Wednesday. I I have I I I go to the I this is Christine Dunar. I go to the trails committee meetings and um I was there for half of the meeting last night and
um what we are what we were trying to accomplish at that meeting um was to um to discuss um how we can better communicate with Sparta residents um when we are planning uh trails. that
was part of the topic. Uh I wanted just to bring that forward. So we are we are working on that. Um and also since we have the now two new trail signs for the Glenn
um we're in the process of deciding where we're going to install them. And um there is the idea that perhaps some way since we've had so many um of the middle schoolers in Sparta uh help the Glenn by planting trees on
Arbor Day and um throughout the years. We thought we could perhaps um provide them with an opportunity to help us with um the installation of the signs where they should go. Um and maybe couple that
around um sometime in the spring with an event where the students would um maybe lead a hike from trail sign to trail sign. Maybe invite their families uh to come. This is where we put this trail
sign at Yoners Landing is one of the locations. and then maybe um hike the blue trail down to the Glenn or vice versa to the other sign. Um they also could perhaps come up with other things
in terms of u maintenance of the trail. Maybe the trail blazes could be um done over again. um or anything that the green team teacher
um at the middle school feels like she would like to engage her students with relating to the Glenn would be be really welcome. >> Thank you, Kristine. >> That's it. You're welcome. >> All right. I didn't miss anybody, did I?
Okay. All right. Um, unfinished business, uh, Earth Day 2021. >> Christine Ro. >> Um, so we're looking at hosting an Earth Day event on Saturday the 25th of April. Um, but we're just waiting for final
confirmation from the town that we have all the permissions in place to before we can move forward. Um, but I did speak to the ecology teacher at the high school um, the last time I saw him and did just mention the idea of incorporating students into Earth Day
and he was really into the idea. So, that could be a good connection to incorporate students um, in our event as well. >> And remind folks, we're going to try to do it here. Yeah, we're going to try to do it right here at the municipal
building out front on the lawn area on the Saturday after Earth Day is the tenative date right now. April 25th. >> And do you have a tenative timeline like time um or >> Yeah, I don't know the timeline yet, but we're trying to coordinate with the Lake
Mohawk Preservation Foundation. They typically do a cleanup in the morning. So, we would like people to participate in that and then come a mile down the road and then participate in our Earth Day event as well. >> Okay. >> All right. Um Christine Dunar, you want
to talk about Salt Watch? Yes. Thank you. It's that time again when we need to take care of our five watersheds. We are really blessed here because we have of course the wall which is the majority or the largest watershed about
over 40% of the surface area drains into the wall river and then we have the pollen skill but then we also have a little portion of the pequest and we have a little portion of the bayic and a little portion of the muskanet kong. So
this is a big responsibility um because we're the headarters. So whatever we do to our water here is going to travel downstream. And um the salt watch is a program that um really tries to keep track of the
amount of salt concentration in our surface waters because salt it really does not um it doesn't disappear when you throw it onto the streets um and the roads. it it goes into the soil and then it it infiltrates down
into our aquafer. And we um have been dumping thousands uh thousands of tons and that has been increasing since 1947 and that is just going down into our
soil into our water. And this is not to say that we don't need to keep our roads safe. We do. But we want to be able to identify a problem in areas if they emerge. If um you know if if our if we
see a trend upward in terms of um salt concentration particularly when we do something called a baseline salt watch. If we see that our groundwater is accumulating the salt, this can lead to only one thing and that is is that you
know the water would become contaminated and unhealthy and contaminated. I know for myself I went out uh I think it was two days ago I went over to um across the street and I sampled and this
was a location I won't mention the name but it was at the edge of a parking lot a very large parking lot kind of sloping downhill leads into um down towards our um 181 um down into the uh economic
development zone area economic development zone area. Anyway, um it it was 242 parts per million and this is above water quality standards
and we've just started the winter season. So um so I think that sort of our goal is to through time through through winters to monitor um
before and after they throw down the salt and to keep track of the concentration level through time and as many locations as we possibly can in our five watersheds. So, the program now is open and um I
would encourage everyone to um look outside of their home, see if they have um a pond, uh a creek, a stream that they value, and then um
order free test strips. And we have the information that will be posted, I'm thinking, um, on the website. Um, and you can, um, contact us and we will, um, look at your area, look at
your stream or your creek, see if it's safe for you to enter it and to sample, and um, show you the procedure. There's this very simple procedure. It takes about 10 minutes in order to get your results from your test strips and h and
to send that information off to the watershed institute which um evaluates it at the end of the season for everyone. Yeah. So that's our Sparta salt watch and um we will be posting the information on
our website um how to uh register for it and um we have sites sites that need we feel need to be covered. Um we've been doing this now for a few years.
>> Yeah, I think this is our fourth year. >> Yeah, our fourth year. So, we're starting to get a good body of data built up at certain sites that we can uh refer to. >> On your list there, Christine, is it the red ones that you need or the blue ones still need folks to monitor?
>> Well, I've updated the chart because a couple of people have registered. Um and so the um the ones that are highlighted in yellow uh are sites that will be monitored.
Um we have people who are dedicated to doing that. The blue is I think I have somebody to monitor those. And then there's 11 that still need to be to be monitored. >> The ones that aren't highlighted are not >> are not highlighted are ones Yeah. And
this this is not an exclusive list. Um there I noticed right now that >> there are a couple of sites that drain creeks that drain into Lake Mohawk. And those would be really good to um you
know to catch those on the western shore or the eastern shore um just to see um the impact there through the winter. example like they come off of Alpine or that come down into >> they come
>> the coves like Turtle Cove or Three Finger Cove. Do you know? >> I'm not that familiar. But I know that Neil Neil, you were monitoring um a creek, but it didn't stay >> flowing for very long, did it? >> It hasn't. Um in the last year or so, it
it's hardly ever flowing. That's the the Bisor's pond stream. um >> because it's been so low. >> Yeah. Yeah. It just there's no there's no flow there. Um >> yeah, >> some of these that you have as not being
um monitored are ones that I do, >> right? But I didn't know that. Okay. So, that leads me to the QR code. >> This is a an incredible challenge to organize. I don't know if you noticed as I'm
bumbling up here. Okay. This. So, if you if I send this to you, there's a QR code and there is a Google form you can fill out and you can list your sites. >> Okay. >> Or your site. >> Well, >> and then I'll get it on my Excel sheet. Yeah. >> Okay.
>> I mean, I thought, but I didn't want to presume anything, so I didn't yellow highlight it. Yeah. Yeah, >> I'll I'll do that. >> So, that QR code will be on the township website along with the information that's going to be >> going up. Is that correct?
>> This will be on the town on the website. >> Oh, yeah. I'll post it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I just have to get >> Okay. Well, I mean, I'm just saying I've been doing these. If somebody else really wants to do them, they can do them and I'll find more. But I'm just saying, >> right? So, we don't know. I mean, this
is for the whole community, right? you know, to participate and if it would help >> because that's the big thing I think too is is that you don't really know, well, should I do this one or this one or am I supposed to be doing this pond? So,
we want to be able to help people make that decision >> and and but they have to have an offering. They have to to know what is available. So, I mean, actually, I mean, there's some close
into town, but actually, we could just publish this whole entire chart unhighlighted and see if we get any takers. How's that? >> And we could also identify new sites, of course. Right.
>> Yes. That's the whole thing is is that you have a creek, you love it, you know, like the people out at Balanced Rock. um they were monitoring those for a while, the Balanced Rock Creek, and I think they still will um do that. You know,
they love that creek, you know, they love their pond. They, you know, they love the river that they fish in, you know, and they want to make sure it's staying healthy. And the only way we can do that is is if we continually monitor through time because we want to catch if
there's a problem, we want to catch it early. Can I ask you if it's are these are just creeks or could it be like water that is coming from it's not necessarily a creek but there's like certain that they they've actually
eroded into a creek but like water that comes down off of alpine that flows into like Mohawk. It's not necessarily it I guess it has become over year because it always comes down that one particular way. Is that something in it and like any
water that comes off like that goes into the different coes there? Yeah, I'm so glad you're asking. What we're trying to catch is we're trying to catch water that is um has been uh potentially after
road salting expo exposed to the road salting procedure. So, let's say you have um a bridge going over a creek. You would want, you know, that they're going to salt heavy on that bridge, right? >> So, what you would do is is you would
sample just downstream of that flow, maybe a day or two after they salted. And if you could catch it before also, so you do two samplings before and after the storm, you know, that would be great. Or if you um have a know of a
parking lot for you have a parking lot that flows downhill that's a downhill parking lot and everything seems to flow into a body of water or creek >> you know that you would want to get that creek you would want to get that that
lake there. >> Okay. Right. >> And I have been doing lakes like I did Senica Lake. I've done >> Sparta >> Sparta Lake um >> Lake Sageno. So yeah,
>> because I think this list came from the fall monitoring, right, where they were really prioritizing the streams, but this list isn't exhaustive of what we were doing last winter, >> right? >> That's a good point. When we did the we had a baseline salt watch because we wanted to see how much salt was in the
groundwater. So, we we looked at several sites and we selected them for Sparta, but >> Okay, that makes sense. But this is that I have tested isn't on the list. Got it. >> That's But we still have that data from, you know, 2024. Yeah.
>> What is this list and what are the highlights mean? >> So, this is the list from what we did in the fall, October sampling. So, some of the sites were repetitive and are the same as we've monitored last winter,
>> but some are also different because of how that baseline sampling they wanted done. They really wanted to prioritize smaller streams, not lakes as much. But for our regular regular monitoring work, we can do we can do lakes, we can do
ponds, we can do streams. Um, and I guess to this chart, two of the sites I did in the fall were that SPO4 and SPO5 that by the track and behind the bus depot. >> I think those I wouldn't prioritize. I
prioritized the four of my sites that I thought were um the most impacted by road salt. So, it was those first three, number six, and then I think if you were highlighting number eight for me. Mhm.
Um I was going to do number seven. >> Okay. >> And you you wouldn't prioritize eight. >> I would not. Well, we can do No, eight could be okay, but I don't think I think four and five
I'd cross out unless we have a lot of takers because these are further away from the road. They would be less impacted by salt. Yeah, >> I have tried to get to that stream by the high school. >> Hard to get to. >> Hard to get to. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Almost. Well, not really, but you know what I mean. >> Yeah. >> I I'm still waiting for test strips. I ordered them a week or two ago. >> Mine came yesterday. Okay. >> I ordered December 1st. >> Oh, I was a late orderer also, but they
came. >> Okay. I I should be seeing mine soon then. >> Yeah. I haven't gotten mine either, but if we do have storms in the meantime before you get your strips, I did go out, not this um past storm, but the first storm we got and collected samples at a couple of my sites and I just am
storing them because you can get collect the sample. It doesn't get impacted. You just clean the bottle three times, any kind of container and then collect the sample and then when your strips come in, you can test it then. >> Okay. Yeah. Good. Then because I had
taken some baseline samples from the the spot that's uh by the um Lake Moahawk Country Club parking lot a little bit downstream from there. Um I and I I took the samples but I didn't have any strips. So yeah, I think I still have
them. So >> Okay, good. >> Yeah, I it it would wouldn't degrade. You can Yeah, you just >> salt salt. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, I think all I would do is probably just, you know, if it settles, right, you just kind of like mix it up
before you test it to make sure everything's incorporated, but it can stay. Um, and then the one other thing I don't know, Chris, you were going to mention about the the January 30th date. >> Yeah, I put it I don't know that you got
a chance to read my email. Um but um when we um monitor the salt, the surface salt from the effect of the road salt applications in winter, we're we're testing really the impact of the the
road salting process itself, right? But if we um do a snapshot of perennial streams that that run year round in a time where there hasn't been a lot
of precipitation in particular and this is kind of you know it's kind of guesswork but we have to select a date and the this year's date is is the 30th of January to actually see what is
coming out of the groundwater on that day. So there I think there would be things that could probably complicate that quite a bit. I mean if you had a huge storm and they had been salulting you
know it would be um it would you wouldn't get a good idea of what is in the groundwater. It would be relating to the surface you know applications >> but I still >> but still you would have a snapshot in time you know actually
>> similar to what we did in the fall except it's going to be >> right and I actually don't know if the winter snapshot is as essential for the groundwater um snapshot as a snapshot of the entire region on the same day so that we're getting data closer in time
in a lot of different sites. because our baseline sampling we were really focused on groundwater and not having the impact of precipitation, but we had that full like two week span. So, everyone's collecting at different times and in different conditions. So, this would be like a regional study uh at a
point in time. So, they're asking everyone who's going to participate to also participate on January 30th whether or not we get a storm that day. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And so another question because I've done this wrong in past years. So
well not I don't know about wrong but um not exactly optimized let's call it that. So Friday is going to be nice, Saturday rain, Sunday rain, Monday no precipitation. So should I try to do my sites Friday,
Saturday, Sunday, Monday? Like in all those days? So it usually spikes either when they're applying salt to the road, so during a storm or when it's icing, >> okay?
>> Or it spikes when it's melting. >> Right? So we have when we have snow piled up and then it starts to melt because there is road salt in the snow, >> right? That would be accumulating. So, if it's going to only I don't know how warm it's going to be, but if it's
going to be rain and not sleet or freezing rain, >> then I wouldn't sample then because that actually dilutes the sample because it's just liquid water. >> Okay. >> Um, so I personally would try to go as close to a storm when it's safe after
they've been salting or when we have extreme melting conditions. >> That's ideal. But then we also, like Christine said earlier, we want to get some data in conditions that are nice as well. So you could collect it on a sunny day. It doesn't need to be consecutive.
You could work around your schedule. We just want everyone to be safe, but we want to get as much good data as we can. >> Okay. I think I think I need to reread the procedure because um I was originally trained by the Musketong Watershed Association um about four
years ago and they told me as soon as you anticipate the trucks going out to salt, go get your sample because you want to compare that with a couple of days after when it started
melting after it's been thrown in. So, I personally need, you know, clarification on that because they do change the procedure and directions from time to time, but I noticed when you go on to the um site to register and get
your strips, they do have a um a link to procedure. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, let's just all try to review that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I've always wondered about this. Um when you get a storm and say it's a you know
significant and they put down a lot of salt and it stays cold, you're not going going to see elevated uh chlorine levels in the water until it actually does melt, right? Which could be days or weeks later. How how does that work?
>> The advisement used to be up to 72 hours afterwards, but I see what you're saying because the salt would still be locked into the snow. >> Right. Right. >> Um so that then again um you know we need to um just look at
the procedure and just follow it. And when you fill out um when you submit your data, they will ask you that question. And that's something that they discuss when they have the the summary at the end of the season. They um you know they will ask you is it within 48
hours? Is it within 72 hours? And remember what they are doing is is they are also looking at the weather conditions with during this discussion you know so they'll know what was happening at your spot particular spot
south Jersey North Jersey where wherever so we can only follow the procedure and leave it up to them to to uh help explain by looking at the the weather situation at that time I guess. >> Okay. Sure.
>> I had a question about just a bigger picture question about like chloride products. Have we talked about the different products and the different uh groups that are salting? Like I just
recently heard this and I don't know if if you knew this or but that Sparta uses magnesium chloride and the state uses a lot of calcium sodium chloride I think um and then there's calcium chloride. So my
understanding I think magnesium chloride can be toxic to aquatic life but it also requires less of it at colder temperatures and the state is pretty aggressive with their salting. So just
thought I'd throw that out there because we're not testing for the magnesium, the sodium or the calcium. or just the chloride is >> we're the what I gleaned from the Straoud research eval um evaluation
seminar after the baseline was is that magnesium chloride because there are two chlorides attached to the one magnesium because magnesium plus two and chloride minus one you have the the two chlorides so that is more damaging to use
magnesium chloride but it's more effective at lower temperatures and whether or not it's um used instead of the sodium chloride just because it's more effective. I I don't I don't know.
>> That's what that's what the town manager uh just had said recently that I heard. So, I thought it was interesting because it was in regards to kind of concrete curbs, I think, and kind of, you know, aprons and stuff that had been replaced,
but if they're on state roads, the state is super aggressive with throwing down. And so, that would suggest that I get your point. The two chlorides attach the magnesium versus one. But uh if the
the practical result is that on state roads they're using so much to compensate and and it's not as effective at the colder temperatures. It was just yeah I was just curious if we had drilled down that specifically to
magnesium based chloride versus sodium versus calcium. But >> what does the state use? I think the state is using just t like sodium chloride, right? Probably. >> Well, I have seen the state throwing
throwing rock salt out, but I've also seen on 517 where they've been doing brining >> and that is the number one recommendation of the Straoud Research Center of the Watershed Institute. the
brining is is so important and I don't know how much we do in our our community but it's it's the whole thing is is that private contractors, towns, state, federal, you know, they all have their
programs, but what I want them to do is follow best management practices. I want us all all to be following the specific recommendations that will make our as safe as possible but cause the
less damage to our water supply and our wildlife and our undercarriages and our plants. >> So, so I I am not convinced we're all all on the same page with this. In fact,
when I see the different types of application, I know that I know that we're not on the same page. But >> so, I guess I'm just curious like has this we have the citizen science program. It's been longunning. Have we
had that discussion? We have a salt shed now, like a brand new salt shed. Maybe this is something where we could have a discussion and say, you know, here are the best management practices. this is what we should recommend and you know
obviously use up what we have and then you know proceed hey let's do this instead >> yes Rob you're you're right we we need to revisit this issue now more data is in information
>> and and it's not only what type of salt we use and how much all of that it comes into the technology of it because if we we can save thousands well tens of
thousands of dollars if we have trucks that have the latest technology on them because they get the forecast coming in. They get the temperature of the surface. They get the ambient air temperature.
They're um unloading system doesn't jerk and dump at the at right where there's a storm drain. Um, there's all of these new technologies and the trucks are worth an investment. I mean, you can't
completely, you know, 17 trucks can't be replaced overnight, but we can slowly upgrade them through time. And that's an investment in our water and our environment that we love. And I think we need to make that. So, I mean, I I guess
I'm just I think we should have a section maybe or think about having a section where we have a general runoff section because we know we're surrounded by all these bodies of water. We're looking at chloride, but there's also the fertilizer use. There these other
runoff, you know, soil sediment concerns. So, I don't know. Just putting it out there as like it's end of year. What we Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. It's salt is a great proxy for just general runoff issues, right? So, I'm just saying
>> there is a correlation. I'm sure maybe not causation, but correlation, >> but you can measure salt. It's harder to measure TDS, you know, with settling and you know, how would you But anyway, >> yeah. >> All right.
>> Thank you so much. I'm sorry to take up so much time. >> No problem. several years ago, and I agree we should revisit this. We did um write a formal memo regarding this is when the salt shed was uh getting built, a formal memo about best practices and
what the town could do. Um so it is out there and I know that Jim did read it and did get a copy of it. Um but it's it's good idea to revisit that. >> Okay. >> All right. Any other questions on the
salt watch? All right. 2026 meeting schedule. So, we've had since our last meeting, I guess that's been about a month to digest the meeting schedule. I didn't come up with any additional changes. So, if we're happy with that, should we
go ahead and vote on it? And I didn't see another copy here. It's there was only uh one meeting for Febru uh November and December just like we did this year, but I think that was the only two months that were
interfering with holidays or whatever. >> Um I think one of the meeting days goes uh fell on Rashashana, but I didn't know we had that like in the air and then there was um >> but isn't Rashashana a multiple day holiday? I think it was right in the
middle. >> Yeah, exactly. And there there was something else in September. >> Okay. >> So, I think we should go ahead and formally approve it so that it can get published with all the other notifications that have to go out in January.
>> Oh, yeah. So, speaking of that, so um town council meets January 6th. Our first one for environmental scheduled for January 8th. So, we might not have enough time to not to do the 48 hour
notice. So, I don't know if we should >> Why does our town council has to approve our meeting dates? >> I don't remember that. I have no idea. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, we'll approve it and then we'll leave that in the hands of the
town clerk to figure out. >> Okay. find out. >> So, do I have a motion to approve uh the meeting schedule for 2026? >> I'll make a motion. >> Thank you, Rob. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you, Christine. All in favor? >> I
>> I Okay, thanks. All right, moving on to new business, League of Municipalities lunchon. Neil, you attended and represented us. >> This was actually It's the Sustainable Jersey lunchon. Oh, I'm sorry. Municipalities lunchon. Uh
>> municipalities. >> I think we need to make that distinction. Um >> yeah. Um yes, I uh I I went to the lunchon and met Margie there. I got there just in time. Um I hit a lot of
traffic on the way down and I wasn't able to uh to attend any of the sessions that were sustainable Jersey specific because I had to get back. But uh it was it was well attended. Um there was there were a lot of um awards
and I I wanted to note that um one of the I think that the town that got the gold was there a gold star. They're changing everything around. I'll get to that later. Um uh but it was Hillsboro that had a thousand points. >> Oh, how they got all those points.
>> Wow. And there was another town that was like under a thousand people that got a thousand points as well. >> Yes. >> I can't remember which one that was. >> I can't either. I'd never heard of the town. >> Yeah. >> But I probably
town was >> the town is one farm. >> 500 points right there. >> One. >> There's less than a thousand citizens >> and they got >> Wow. Okay. Yes. >> Goals. Goals. Hashtag goals with the
>> Yeah. >> So, anything? Well, we got the bronze award. >> Yes. >> And you went and received that for us. Thank you, Margie and Neil. >> Yes. >> Yeah. That's so awesome. Yeah. So, they're not going to have that this next year. >> Well, okay. I'll get to that now. Um I I
attended there was a meeting uh a Zoom session. I believe it was yesterday um on the program the 2026 uh program refresh. Now they're um they're pausing to
uh do things like uh revamp the website um uh which I think they're spending $400,000 on on just the website. Uh they're also uh working on um streamlining the process, making
documentation less ownorous and uh um things like repetitive documentation for reertification. Uh that we have to do that takes up um you know our our staff's time. Uh
we um yeah, they're they're working on making that less >> uh less ownorous. Um but um we can continue to work on 2026 actions.
Uh, and if if they end up getting changed or dropped for 2027, they'll still be grandfathered in. So that if we get if we achieve any any uh goals that are for 2026 and in the coming
year, uh, they'll still be good. >> Okay, great. >> Um, and the press release was drafted. >> Yes, it was published. >> Published. Okay, awesome. All right. Newton beat us to it, though.
I saw they Yes, they did. >> Sorry. >> They didn't have a picture, though. >> No. And we have a great >> We have good pictures. >> All right. Anything else on that? >> Okay. Um, there's something that wasn't on the agenda, but we do have a couple
announcements to make. Um, so Ted, I think not everybody was here last meeting, but Ted will be resigning. I think his term is up and he's not renewing. Actually, not resigning. So, his term is up and he's
not renewing after I don't know, I think maybe >> how many years? >> 20 plus >> years serving on the environmental commission. So, thank you, Ted, for all your service. Sorry you're not here tonight. >> Yes. >> Um, >> thanks Ted. did want to give him that
certificate, but well, we'll catch him. We'll catch him sometime. Okay, >> we'll see. >> Um the other announcement that I have is that I'm not renewing either. Um I was elected to the board of education and
unfortunately while I would want to stay, the meetings are the exact same night. >> Oh, no. >> So, I can't I can't do anything about that. I can and I can't I'm not yet able to duplicate myself and be in two places at the same time. >> So once I have that magical superpower,
I'll be back. Um but yeah, I I um I've really enjoyed the last three years being chairperson here and I hope someday you'll want me back if I'm not on board of ed anymore or they change the day that they're meeting or something.
>> Yeah, you'll be missed. You really will. But but good luck on the school board. Yeah, another adventure. >> Yeah, another adventure. >> Thanks for stepping up for that. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks, Kim. >> Um, so I did let Neil know, the mayor,
mayor Neil know, um, that I'm not renewing and so we do need a chairperson and we do need more members. So if you have friends >> or want to talk amongst yourselves, the
reorg meeting is January 8th. >> January 6th. >> January 8th for us. >> Eight. Yes. >> Six for you. >> Six for me. >> Eth. >> Yeah. And Emily's leaving also. >> Yes.
>> Thank you, Emily, for everything you've done. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, everybody. one of the best secretaries we've had, I think. >> Yeah, Courtney a lot. It was really wonderful working with all of you, too. It was It was great. But I'm still in the town, so come visit me. Same email.
So, >> we'll see you around. >> Well, I certainly have learned an incredible amount this year. >> Uh, thank you all for all Yeah. what you have taught me and what I can take elsewhere. Trying to just catch up with
anything. Um, but thank you and all the best to you and welcome to you. So, >> is this our last meeting >> this year? Yeah, >> this year. Oh, that's right. We'd be meeting on Christmas, wouldn't we? >> That's why we didn't have November's
meeting because otherwise we would have been meeting on Thanksgiving Day. >> Yes. >> Oh my gosh, what a This year's been been a good a really good year. We've done so many neat things. Um, and a big thank you to Christine Rogers for all of the
speakers we've had. They've been so excellent. Um, the community has not taken advantage like I would wish that they would. And for next year, uh, you know, maybe we could put our heads together
and try to get the word out. I mean, Dylan, you know, we've had so many people preservation of land. We had Americanore speaker. We had um the uh Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority recycler
here, Dawn. Right. Um and we we've just had so many great meetings uh that I know our residents would have loved to be here and learn more, you know, if we
could just find a way to um to get them here. I mean, I know that um our YouTube channel gets a lot of views, so I do think that is so helpful to have >> and live streaming and recording happen.
>> Yes, it is. >> So much. I mean, we don't get a lot of town council either except for then occasionally, but >> but I would also agree with you, Christine, that like if there are other speakers or suggestions that folks in
the community have that they want to bring forth, love to hear some. And there's definitely some, you know, work efforts that I know that we're still working on that hope you guys will continue like our deer management plan and we still have to get the um
resolution for >> the forest watch completed. Um we still have our forest tree ordinance to pass. So >> I'll be watching from afar and then come and support you. >> Okay.
>> All right. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> I wanted to mention one more thing. Um, >> sorry, Neil. >> Sorry, I I I forgot that the climate super fund act will be heard in the Senate budget committee on Monday >> 12th this coming Monday. >> Is anybody going?
Does anybody want to go down there? I I don't want to go by myself, but I want to go down there. >> Uh, you want to go? >> I want to go. >> Let me think about it, Christine. think about it because um >> we don't know what time it's going to be heard. I mean, if it's going to be heard
early, that would be harder for me, I think. Or, >> you know, I want to miss traffic. It's going to be very cold. But what what I want to do is >> I want to go to the hearing, but before then, I want to go into the hallways there and I want to find our assembly
people, you know, Fantasia and Ingamott, >> Ingamort, >> Ingamort. partying. >> I did not know that. >> Yeah. >> And I want to talk to Parker Space and I just want to just present my case for
that because because it's so would benefit us up here, not just the coastal areas benefit >> and are you looking for somebody to ride with you? >> I am. >> Okay. I might have some people who would want to ride with you. Is it okay if I
share your cell number to reach out? Please do. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I'd like to go. Uh let me just I'll confirm that with you. >> It's the last harrah. >> I know. Of the lame duck. >> You know,
>> the more people that could be there, the better. That'd be great. >> Yeah. I also wanted to um I I came across something that this Saturday they're having the tree lighting over at the VFW. Well, the tree
lighting here um the celebration. It's also to benefit Ronald McDonald House. There's the Army Navy game, but it's also the tree lighting at 6:30. Um so if anybody can attend. Also, I met a
gentleman. I went to a uh the Newton Women's Club luncheon for the pantry. Um I I was honored to be able to go there and there was a gentleman that came in that says he is collecting pop tops off
of cans. any kind of can, soda can, beer can, um, juice can, that the actual top is a 100% aluminum, >> and he collects them because the rest of the can is not, and it can get bacteria
and get contaminated when it gets recycled. But the aluminum tops he collects takes to Ronald McDonald House down in South Jersey and they then get money they give it to whoever melts it
down and and it helps fund them. >> Wow. Okay. >> I never knew any from know about this either. >> I didn't either. So he he gave me his number and he said any there's some restaurants and some clubs that he picks up from.
So, anybody that wants to uh to to save their we don't go through a lot of pop tops in our house, but household restaurants, >> whatever that they that's actually 100% aluminum and it's worth quite a bit of money and it helps because there's only
one Ronald McDonald House in New Jersey left. >> Okay. So, and uh if you want to reach out, I have this gentleman's name. So, he would be happy to to come and collect it or we can collect it at a certain place. >> Okay.
>> We put a bin out here and put pop tops in it. >> I'm expecting your car is going to be food pantry and pop tops. Now, >> is full of boxes and food all the time. >> But yes, isn't that something?
>> Yeah. >> Who would have thought the more you know? It's 100% aluminum. >> That's all I have. >> Good stuff. All right. Any other meeting or any topics? Sorry.
>> All right. Do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> Thanks, Neil. Do I have a second? >> Second that. >> Thanks, Rob. All in favor? I >> I >> Thanks, everyone. Wish everybody a happy
happy holiday. Merry Christmas. >> Thank you. >> Thank Thank everyone. >> Still got to do my salt watch. >> I got to get some strips. >> Just go to the >> Now I know strips. I just haven't done
it yet. You have another one of those