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Welcome to the Township of Sparta Environmental Commission meeting uh Thursday, June 25th, 2026. Uh we are live in the council chambers at the municipal building. Uh meeting is called to order at 7:04. Um the live stream is

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can be viewed now or in the future at uh YouTube.com at spartatwpstreams. Please take notice that action will be taken on the following items at the SP Sparta Environmental Commission meeting of Thursday, June 25th, 2026.

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Adequate notice of the meeting was provided to the public and the press on June 19th by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice. We have a salute to the flag. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. Courtney, may we have the roll call, please?

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>> Chair Neil Sourine >> here. >> Vice Chair Christine Rogers >> here. >> Christine Dumbar. >> Barbara Kasula. Robert Otto >> here. >> Alex Birdie >> here. >> Councilwoman Margie Murphy >> here. >> Nicholas Drada >> here.

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>> Thank you. >> First item. Uh first of all, I'd like to on behalf of the environmental commission um congratulate our student liaison uh Nicholas Dradau. Uh he's served us for the last year and will be

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moving on to study veterinary medicine. We thank him for his service. >> Thank you. Hope you got a lot out of this as much as we did. >> And where are you going? >> Uh UMass Amhurst. Awesome.

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>> Awesome. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> So, next item is approval of minutes. On uh page two, I think that last sentence is supposed to say Councilwoman Margie Murphy

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uh also mentioned that due to the technical issues with the audio during the town council meeting this past Tuesday that the agenda that the audio was posted to the agenda center on the township website. I think

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it's just um the sentence doesn't read right, but it's the right idea. >> The audio was restored and posted. >> Yeah. And then on page uh five under Pope John Rain Garden,

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let's just put in the teacher's name. It's um Judy Lo is the last name. L FF. And then in that paragraph afterwards, did Christine Dumbar say last time that uh Judy Lo was gonna retire after the

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next school year? So the 2027 school year. >> Yes. >> Yes. That's what I thought. >> Okay. So can we just change that in the sentence that said Christine Dunar noted that the teacher leading the Pope John Rain Garden project is planning to retire after the 2026 to 2027 school

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year. Yes, I believe so because she said she was going to help >> in the fall. Right. In the fall. Yes. >> Right. Right. Yes. Thanks for that, Christine. >> That's all I have. >> I have nothing. Everyone else had a chance to review.

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Why do you still >> Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. >> I'll make a motion to accept the minutes with the minor corrections provided. >> Thanks, Rob. Can I have a second? >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I.

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>> Minutes are approved. Moving on. We have no correspondence. We have no applications. We have no members of the public. So, it's time for reports.

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>> Uh, Margie, would you like to start? >> Sure. Um, have you heard back yet from about the uh tree ordinance? >> No. I um >> Okay. Okay. I I uh asked Courtney

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actually to uh to um try to find out the status of our MS4 municipal wastewater permit. Uh >> okay. >> In our plan because that's part of it and it seems like we are not yet in

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compliance. >> Okay. >> The new rules. So, >> um, so we put through an ordinance at the meeting on Tuesday to lower the building in the PDRM1, PDRM2, and the

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economic development, the ED zoning to the maximum building size of warehouse is 75,000 square ft from the current 175,000 square feet. So, we voted on first we introduced it

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and then last week we or the other night we confirmed and we put through the ordinance which I'm very pleased about. >> Was the vote unanimous? >> Yes. >> No, it was not. Sorry. Was 4 to one.

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>> Yes, it was not unanimous. >> And did it specify a warehouse or just a flat 75,000 square foot cap? 75,000 square foot cap. >> Okay. >> And um the what we suggested too was that anything

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to do with the intensity the whatever whatever else that was to go with the building should be done in the master plan. >> So >> So what we were working on Yep. >> that would be taken given to the master plan committee. Did did the council

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person who voted against it provide reasoning? >> No. >> He did not. And uh that's about all I have for >> Was there another ordinance up for >> There was

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>> it. There was there was there was another ordinance. Um, so it was the master for the three zones and >> 2611 was the other one. >> And what was that for? >> Data centers. Okay. >> The data centers. Yes. Sorry. Right.

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Yes. So the data centers that also >> um >> that was a unanimous >> unanimous >> that that was approved. >> That was approved and it also the intensity was uh to be also given to the master plan committee. And [clears throat] there was some questions

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about oh the the the master plan has not been redone in approximately 40 years. Bits and pieces here. It was reviewed and things were few things were changed over the years but the whole thing has not been redone. Um there were some

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comments from the from the audience that said that it has been but not completely. No. >> 1986 was kind of >> correct. Um, so it is now in the process of completely being redone and with with

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up to date and with more of these specifications with intensity and with all of the concerns and all of the work that you all did on those two on those two ordinances that will go to the master plan committee to be put in.

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>> Wonderful. >> Thank you, Ron. >> Thanks for doing that. >> Yes. Thanks. >> Oh, our pleasure. Our pleasure. And we also, which was really I was very pleased about, we submitted an ordinance um we introduced it to

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get together with a few other and I'm not sure all the other um municipalities in Sussex County that are writing putting an ordinance through to Governor Cheryl to not defund the Sussex County School of

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Conservation. So or the New Jersey council that happened happens to be here. So we put through that ordinance and that was unanimous. >> That was a resolution. >> Resolution. Correct. Correct. It was a resolution. >> So we will send that on to onto also all

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of our congressional committee to take down >> to Trenton to not defund the school. >> Very good. >> Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. >> Oh, my pleasure. Yes.

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>> The more letters that are sent and and written that the better >> so from all of the constituents and all the residents of the state in itself. So >> yes, and there's still time there. Public comment is open till the 30th, I

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believe. Right. That or at least that's when it gets voted on, I believe. >> I believe. I'm not I'm not positive. I >> But you can still call call our governor and legislators. >> Yes. >> Which we've >> Yep. Yep.

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>> Mr. and Ganamort and Miss Fantasia and uh >> Parker Space. >> Parker Space. Correct. >> Yes. Yes. >> So, >> and that's all I have.

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>> Keep your calls and letters going. >> Yes. [laughter] >> This is a very important issue. Um, okay. The master plan subcommittee

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we held a um subgroup meeting this morning. We're going still going over goals and uh our next uh full meeting of the master plan subcommittee will be on July 13th. The master plan is still um

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scheduled to be finished uh in September. Thank you. >> That's that's all I have. >> Are you [clears throat] Are you going to be working in some of what the environmental um commission suggested

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for intensity scale [clears throat] and intensity? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Sounds good. >> And we have we have a one one complete one distinct goal for environmental issues also.

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That's it. Christine, you don't have anything, do you? >> No. >> And we don't have a planning board member here. So, >> no, we don't know what happened. >> I had some questions on that, but seeing

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as they're not here. >> Um, all right, moving on to unfinished business. Uh, the first one is Pope John Rain Garden. I think we pretty much uh resolved that last week. I'm sorry, Courtney. I should have asked you to

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take this off. Um, the tree ordinance that we've been wondering about for some time now. Um the the tree ordinance is part of our uh MS4

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uh uh municipal storm water uh wastewater treatment plan and it seems like we are not in compliance yet. So, um um I asked Courtney to try to find

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out where we are with that and and um when we can be when we can possibly expect a resolution or or action on that. >> And who did you contact? >> Um I asked just asked Courtney, but

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>> No, no, no. Before that though, hadn't you written letters that who do you normally deal with with that? May I ask? >> I had sent an email to Jim Zepp. He might have missed it. Um I just asked him about the tree ordinance, but uh >> Okay.

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>> Um I think he is is the stormwater coordinator. So >> Okay. >> And then [clears throat] Barbara's not here, but presumably she had worked a lot on that. So I think she was going to

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uh go over her draft and then we were waiting on what Corey Stoner had done, right, a couple years ago or a year ago. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, that's where we are with that.

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Um, the next U unfinished business item is native plant ordinance. Yeah, >> I think that relates I'd like to move the tree ordinance, get us compliant,

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and then then if I think if we have that, then we kind of have a format to work from on shrubs and plants and all that and [clears throat] we could because I don't know that we need that for our compliance. >> No, no, but it would be it would make

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sense to me to follow similar format and You mean as far as suggesting uh >> well once once we can get the tree ordinance codified and submitted and all of that then I would I would basically take that and copy that format and put

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in plants and shrubs and all of that build off of that is how I would approach it. >> So does the the tree or woodlands that that you and Barbara or that Barbara's working on >> I didn't work on Barbara worked on >> Yeah. I I I don't recall seeing it, but did it had have any kind of

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recommendations for >> I don't I don't know. So that's why and and then I don't I [clears throat] don't know what Corey Stoner did subsequent to that. I just heard it mentioned kind of occasionally every so often when I first

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started on environmental. Okay. Um All right. So, uh I guess we can uh table that for a while. Did you or did you want to work on something? I mean, I I would just if people want to

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start researching it at their leisure, um I think if we can get a copy of the tree ordinance, then we kind of see the template, then we can kind of start playing around with what the native

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plants might look like. And then that's where I think I I could make a few calls. Other people could check with master gardeners and landscape architects contacts that they might have and we could kind of try to bring that all together and like a quas working

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session and then present that as we think that this follows in line of the tree ordinance. Well, it's on purpose. um [clears throat] that [laughter] that that this is kind of along the same lines because I just don't want to go

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too far down that rabbit hole and then have to revise it, which sounds like was kind of what happened with the tree ordinance. >> Okay, >> Neil, with the native plant ordinance in the past, did Kim and Linda, weren't

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they working on a native plant? Was it just a list of recommendations or was it a ordinance because that was going back and forth for a while. >> Yeah, I think it was a list of recommendations but uh

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>> because we should circle back and try to find what they were working on. >> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> I don't know. Yeah, I didn't know if Linda had worked on the tree ordinance >> as well. Native plants. >> I'm not positive. >> I don't think so. I think it was native

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plants >> only. But >> okay. >> Yeah. Well, the tree ordinance is something that um you know as part of the the >> state requirements. It's there is a model ordinance

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>> I guess uh Barbara had added to it or >> but right but but then it was pulled and looked at by the town engineer. >> Right. I don't I never heard anything after that. So I don't know like Margie

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is that something can you reach out to Corey Stoner directly or >> I mean do you want to coordinate? I don't know. Cory Corey Stoner >> for the township should should have that from two years ago. Just see like maybe check with him just

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>> I can reach out to him if you wish. >> Yeah. Whichever. >> Yeah, I can reach out to you. >> Okay. >> Okay. and and not just, you know, not just the tree ordinance, but everything else that's um in our storm water report on on our on the web page that were required to have

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>> on our township website. Uh there's still some things that are >> outstanding. Yes. Outstanding. That were supposed to be done in 2025s. Okay. >> Are estimated. I'll do some research, figure it out. >> Thank you.

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>> You're welcome. Um, moving on uh to the environmental resource inventory. Uh, I haven't had a chance to work on any of this, but um, unless anybody else has any uh any

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thoughts and suggestions, I'll we can move this to the next uh next meeting. I guess >> I also thought that maybe this could be coordinated with what you're doing in master plan potentially. >> Yes. >> Okay.

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>> I think at the last meeting we had talked though about trying to do two things at once like our own >> um shorter right shorter um inventory and then getting the consultants. So, is anyone has anyone reached out to our

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grant writer or is like what's the process for that of how to get a grant writer involved in helping us to push an application forward? >> That's a good question. And >> um I know well yes we do have one and and

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they are right in the process of uh working on one for us for town council. Um, I don't know. One of us could find out. >> Yeah, because we might, you know, >> I actually don't know the process.

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>> Um, we could I I think we could ask for a Highlands Council grant for this also, even though we we already have one for open for the um master plan,

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>> right? We can we should be able to ask, you know, maybe submit for one for the ERRI. >> Okay. >> Okay, that seems to be it for unfinished business, unless anyone has

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>> See, I I have something. Okay. Um, in the last meeting we talked about having the S Sylvia from the Spart Sparta Mountain, let me say it right. Sparta Mountain. >> Save Spart Mountain. >> Um, >> I didn't have her email address, but I

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went to their website and I I sent a message to them and uh, but I never heard back. >> You haven't heard back? >> That's Stop the Chop. >> Stop. Yeah, stop the chop. Yeah, because I wanted wanted to have her come in and like kind of just give a little talk to kind of >> Let me see if I can reach I'll try to reach out to her, too.

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>> Okay. >> So, I've spoken with her before. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> I'd also brought up artificial turf um last [clears throat] meeting and I didn't stay for the entire town council, but it sounds like they've picked up on

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that, too. So, >> um I I don't know what was said, but someone just mentioned, oh, they're talking about I said, "Oh, that's funny. We we talked about it two weeks ago. Um so I would like to not not tonight but take a look at that

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again figure out it has a finite product life cycle. It was installed against um well I would say against several people's better judgment um and but regardless

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what's the plan in five six years when it's end of life >> that's its lifetime isn't it five or six years >> I thought so so what's the plan for the turf for the crumb rubber whatever underllayment uh and then is it going to be more

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plastic stick or are we going to do natural turf and if we're going to do natural turf I think environmental commission could suggest kind of disposal of the one figure out how we're going to pay for that hazardous disposal

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um and then how we're going to remediate and then if we're if we want to plant um natural turf start planning now so because I think this preceded in part because

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there wasn't enough preparation uh there wasn't enough conversation so they kind of said oh we need a field so let's do this then I think we also had some parents who were advocating for it but again world cup and everything um some

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articles have come out now talking about how uh there's higher incidence of injuries >> injuries yeah >> yeah so just Uh maybe everyone could take a look at that. Uh and then next meeting it could

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be a topic of discussion. So maybe put that one on unfinished business. >> Yeah, let's make this an agenda item for for next meeting. >> And we did talked about it. So >> you did at the council meeting. I I didn't get a chance to >> What did you guys talk about? >> Uh just the just bringing it up the fact

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that we need to take a look at it and how to dispose of it and what is its life cycle? What ex what actually do we do with it once and yes because there are so many reports that have come out with higher in uh incidences of injuries

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of younger of every age. Mhm. Um >> well, and we talked about PAS and you know, these forever chemicals and how >> uh especially our youngest population um in the community, they're they're closer

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to the plastic and when you're running on it, you're araiding it. Those fine particulates are getting airborne. >> So, it's actually a very high risk. One, because of proximity to the inhalation of it. two in the fryable material and then two because

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small bodies developing bodies. Um so >> I have never played on turf. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> Uh only grass. So >> I played on grass. >> Me too. >> You too, right? >> Yeah. >> We didn't have turf fields. >> I don't know. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I got >> I think it's good

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>> cut caught up with rocks and Yeah. Yeah. One of the reasons they put them in though, I think, is because of the geese issue with the geese pooping on the grass fields. So, that's just something to >> keep in mind. Um,

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because you also don't want kids playing on geese poop, you know, >> I guess. Did we plant geese poop? I don't >> We didn't have so many geese when >> we didn't have so many geese back then. >> I remember the pros did have artificial turf, but we didn't. >> We did not.

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But I do know living on the lake that to keep the geese off something that reflects is the only thing that keeps them off our lawn besides my dog. >> I was going to say or dogs. >> Yes. >> So >> that is the only thing. >> But >> fences, wires, they hop over. It doesn't

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bother. But something that reflects I had put tape. But then you know that if it doesn't stay on there and then you I'm picking up little pieces or it's going in the water. You don't want that to happen. But something that reflects. I tried everything. Sounds um

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all kinds of I had something that was playing or something that if they got near it, it would be didn't phase them and they're creatures of habit. They come back to the same place every time. >> But that seems to be I mean so yeah,

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obviously feces not great. Um but the entire field is plastic. And I think the the other argument was um drainage into our water bodies. So it's not just the inhalation risk, it's also this is

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this is directly sheet flow into our bodies of water. So when we talk about salt, when we talk about well, yeah, we could talk about waste from animals and people going to our water, but all of this um and and maybe that's a thing too

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is like shoreline buffers and all. I mean, we can talk about all that, right? >> Anyway, so maybe next meeting. >> Yes. Have we uh we have a bunch of artificial turf fields um and some of them are are old, right? They've been

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around for a while. Have we have ever had to replace one or dispose of one? >> Not to my knowledge. I don't I think the newest one probably is is Angerman. >> Yeah. was put in um White Lake.

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Um >> I don't know if any of them have been replaced to be honest. >> Congrat replaced the agrass. >> Yeah. >> Yes. I honestly don't know. >> Yeah. That

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>> Do you know from the high school has that ever been replaced? >> I'm not sure. Um, it might have been replaced like right around when I was a freshman, but I don't know >> because it was it was turf back then, right?

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>> It was definitely turf when I was a freshman. Yeah. >> Okay. >> I don't know. Maybe I could ask Matt. >> Sorry. >> Maybe I could ask Matt because, you know, he was there earlier than me. But >> yeah, that would be >> that would be great if you could find out. It would be good to know if if they

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the high school has had to replace anything >> and find out what it cost. So, okay. >> Um, before we move on to new business, I just wanted to confirm with Rob if we're

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going to have our speaker series. I know you were thrown out round a couple dates in the summer. >> Yeah, I haven't heard. Uh again um Paul was waiting on um Dr. Souza. Okay. >> Um he is recovering

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um from something. So uh when he was done with his recovery, I had given him three dates. I think it was like a six to 8 week. So but we shouldn't wait on that. If we have other speakers, we should we should certainly be scheduling

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those in the meantime. Um I think I provide the dates via email that that I Okay. >> So yeah, I just didn't want to press because I know it's like doctor's orders once >> Yeah. So the idea would be that they're going to do a joint presentation. >> Yeah. So which I think will be um

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really good. Uh the question is would I think that the question to the an answer to the question that I would pose would be oh do we want to like add even more? But probably those two could carry it. But then we might consider following

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up with like a watershed ambassador, maybe someone LMPF or something like that just to further talk. I don't know if you have any ideas, but you know talk about like >> lakes and uh sheet flow and stuff like

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that. So but I think that would go nicely. But then we had also talked about deer management. Then there's Sparta Mountain. Um we'll do salt stuff later in you know winter but what >> and I know that the um the watershed

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ambassador that programs finishing um July 8th is their graduation. So the new watershed ambassador will be starting in September. >> We'd have to put that off until >> Yeah. Yeah. So if we're going to do a followup on the poll and and Steve Souza

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presentation, it would be later. I mean, unless you want to find out if they want to do one last harrah before they when's our next meeting. Is it? >> No. No. [laughter] >> No. No. She's not going to want to do that. >> But the incoming one will probably be

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very eager to Right. Okay. >> Yep. >> Uh uh yeah. Um, I attended a uh a seminar on um verma composting at last

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week at Simple Bare Necessities. Uh, and that maybe that's something we could we could do, but uh >> on what? >> Verma composting. That's that's composting uh with worms. It's a it creates really high high

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quality compost between between the compost and the worm castings. It's very very beneficial to plants. And we all got a a bucket with a bunch of red wiglers.

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You can't use regular earthworms. They they don't work. That's it's the um can't think of the Latin name, but they're called I think they're called red wiglers. So, I have a little demonstration project in

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my basement now and I'll let you know how that goes. >> Okay. >> So, how does that work? Is that actually Do you use like a regular compost bin that you already have and then >> No, it's a it's a five gallon bucket with it with holes drilled in the sides for for aation and uh you put the worms

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in and mix in your uh your uh greens and your browns and worms take care of it. It's supposedly in three months you can get a good uh results, good compost. >> Red wiglers.

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>> Cool. >> Have you heard of hoogle culture of what? >> Well, you're talking about red wiglers. Um, it's the uh it's the when you bury I think you dig a trench and you bury woody material, but not like cedar.

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>> Oh, yes. I'd be interested uh if if you've got if you've got worms um [laughter] you you put those in there and my understanding is then then you you layer your your browns or what you could layer your

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material there. You can put hay on there and then you can put your plantings in there and the wood as it breaks down it gives off gives off the nutrients but also acts as a sponge. So if we have times of drought, um it will slowly

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release the moisture and it will help create that rich dark soil and then it will also be a great habitat for worms. So I kind of I'm curious I'll be curious how your experiment goes and then I don't know like if schuma or anything

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like if you guys would ever play around with that or >> I have seen I in fact I think I saw a a webinar on that. >> Yes. Might have been a training session or >> take a look at that. But I mean

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>> it it looked interesting. And you basically build like a mound, >> right? >> And then you could put your plantings in there >> and instead of like like you have more surface area and then the lower areas as they rot like they Yeah. they just release the nutrients and the water and

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um >> but not cedar >> but not not something that's rot resistant. Um I think also >> not treated um anything that would give off like >> not not tannins. Um, some there's some

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other woods that aren't good, but like pine, ash, um, probably even red oak, you bury it as long as the water can get into it. So maybe white oak probably, you know, it's rot resistant. Um,

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but yeah, so just as as you're playing around with that, I'd be curious. I don't know if you have a spot in your yard where you could >> not really. I didn't really have a place to to bury what you're supposed to do or one of one of the methods is to bury that five

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gallon can. >> Okay. >> Up to the up to the top, leave leaving some air holes. Uh but I didn't really have a place of space for that. So that's why I put it in the basement inside another bucket. >> Are there any sustainable jersey points that we could get related to that if we

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were doing a workshop? I I think there's some um I think there's something on backyard composting. I I have to >> Yeah, we should look into that because I think people would be interested. >> Yeah, I was I I I would like to do something with that. >> Okay.

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>> So, we've kind of morphed into new business u from old business without without officially announcing uh our new business. But um we have nothing else on the uh new

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business agenda unless anybody has other things they'd like to talk about. >> No, I guess just related to our um conversation earlier about the School of Conservation, I did see that New Jersey Highlands Coalition is hosting a hike

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this weekend um and a training session at the School of Conservation. So, we can maybe get that information posted to the Facebook page. >> Oh, I hadn't seen that. >> Yeah, it's like a three-hour hike. It's supposed to be a hike and a educational

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lesson about the benefits of the School of Conservation. >> Oh. >> Which day is that? >> I think it's on this Saturday. >> By New Jersey Highlands. >> Uh, yes. >> Oh, >> New Jersey Highlands Coalition. >> The Coalition. >> Yeah. Is hosting it. What time?

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>> I think it's 11 o'clock, but I'll get the information posted to I'll send it to Courtney and she could get it posted on the Facebook. >> Oh, awesome. >> Yeah, I did one of their hikes. I think it was two years ago there. Uh there was a a really nice nice hike along that

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river and then uprook. Yeah, Flatbrook and then up to Sunrise Mountain. >> It was a you know, was wasn't an easy, but it's a good one. We used to have field trips to Stokes when we were in high school

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>> to the school of conservation, right? >> Or just to >> No, just to Stokes and we'd stay in the cabins there like in fourth or fifth grade. >> We did that in eighth grade. Stay at the cabins there. >> Did you? >> Yep. At Stokes. Yeah. >> Maybe it was May maybe it was fifth

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grade. >> Did you go to the cabins in the school of conservation? Have you >> No, it wasn't those cabins. It was >> No, I don't think >> I remember bunk beds. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> that's all. [laughter] That's all I Maybe it was later than fifth grade. Um

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but we went Yeah, we did go there for the for the weekend. >> Yeah. >> Do they still do that? >> Not at all. No. >> No. >> I I can't say I've heard of that being done. So

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>> I didn't I didn't go there but in Connecticut uh I went to nature's classroom in like fourth or fifth grade and it was a similar thing. We went we [clears throat] stayed in bunk beds and cabins and we learned about nature and

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um yeah it was great experience. Mhm. >> Yeah. The the the Highlands hike. Uh this will be at the school, right? That's that's where it was. And some of the people from the school were were on on the hike as well. >> Yes, that's what this

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>> Oh, that would be great. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> I didn't know about that. >> All right. Anyone else have anything? >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Can I have a second?

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>> I'll second. >> All in favor of adjournment? >> I >> I >> I >> I [laughter] >> Are we having meetings throughout the summer every two weeks? >> We're scheduled to, right? Yeah. Just

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like town council, we're only having one in July and one in August. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Are we off? [laughter]