##VIDEO ID:0PzIfdH94Qw## okay all right good thank you good evening everybody on behalf of the members of the planing board and our professionals would like to welcome you to tonight's meeting of the sparta Township planning board this meeting is now called to order for the record this meeting is being held on December 18th 2024 at the sparta Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is now 7:02 it's important to note that the live stream for this meeting may be viewed on YouTube at www.youtube.com Sparta WP please note that ad adequate public notice of this meeting was provided in accordance with the open public meeting meetings act I ask that everyone now please stand and join our boards and our professionals as we proudly salute our nation's flag i al to the flag of the United States America and to the repblic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all all right thank you everybody okay Miss Franklin if you could please call the role sure Justin Canales here Ernie ragad here Christine dumbar here Mike Sylvester here Vice chairman Bill Enright here chairman Ronde here Deputy Mayor Dean bluy here John Ferman here Janette Burke here Celeste Luciano Brian Zimmerman here okay thank you all right um going to make a few changes to tonight's agenda just in terms of the order um well the the first change is that application uh number 24724 is being rescheduled to sometime in February at the applicant's request um and that is the um that's the firehouse apartment and we'll set a a firm date uh we we try to set a firm date later on in the meeting oh okay you have to set firm dat will car that's the firehouse departments is not being heard tonight and I'll reu on the next matter Mr chairman all right thank you uh the second change uh we're going to split the executive session into two parts tonight and and that's being done in order uh having the public and the folks in the audience wait while we go through everything that we have to cover on that session um we do have Mr Brady here tonight who um is going to to walk us through the first part and I'm guessing that's only going to be about a 15 20 minute uh session so um I'm going to ask the folks please uh bear with us while we go through this uh first part of the session again shouldn't be more than 15 20 minutes so so with that would somebody like to make a motion to go into an executive session I'll make a motion uh would somebody like to second I'll second it okay roll call please sure Deputy Mayor Dean blumi yes Janette ber yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enight yes John Ferman yes Justin Canales yes celest Luciano Ernie rexet yes Mike Sylvester Brian Zimmerman yes chairman Ronde yes all right the motion is passed we're going to go into exe executive session so folks could just give us a room for we again we'll try to be back here by 20 after and thanks for bearing with us traff com okay Dave before you start I just want to make sure that everything's oh okay thank you everything's off no not yet okay thank you on and off sign up yes thank you okay thanks that M right yeah [Music] okay welcome back everybody thank you for bearing with us um so that now brings us to the public hearings portion of the meeting and I mentioned that uh site plan 24724 is being moved to February to a time to be determined this may be a good time to to do that now um Ron you you want to do February 5th um let me just look real quick so we've got Remis and restaurant on the 5th uh I think we have Sparta MMA up at um pla up at the U Mohawk Plaza and other stuff so my my my my fear there is they may be pushing it to to get a third one in there um if we have Firehouse Firehouse February that's oh you know yeah firehouse that's what we're talking about we're trying to decide when to carry it so I had I had put that out to the second meeting um you know I hate I hate to do that but I don't want to bring people here with all their professionals and not be able to have a a good shot at getting through it anybody have any other thoughts I think the second meeting makes sense okay so uh we can carry that on the record that that was noticed for tonight so that's the firehouse departments will be carried without additional notices to 700 p.m. on February 19th 2025 okay thank you all right so that then brings us to the the second hearing for tonight which is 24723 yhk realy pops Bagels uh with the folks on pops Bagels YK realy come forward and and welcome thank uh Mr chair members of the board could everybody um this is being live stream so please talk into the microphone and there's another microphone over there if need be that way the folks at home can can hear what's being said as well as back in the uh the audience there if you set that up over in the corner uh the public can see it and you can aim it towards towards me but also the public a little bit and the board little bit little bit towards the board a little bit more towards the board that's fine there go you're good and I'll swear in your Witnesses uh Mr wner thank you Mr Collins uh Rich wner lab svaj and con here tonight on behalf of the applicant yhk realy LLC uh we're here tonight to uh propose to you a conversion from an existing uh non-functional service station repur puring it into a family-owned bagel shop as you can see in the rendering on my right um the principles of yhk are the muheisen family they are um in the bagel business they have uh two current operations one in Landing New Jersey the other in Wharton New Jersey and they are uh three of them are here tonight the father haam uh Kamal and YZ his sons and they are here to uh give any testimony that might be required from the board regarding the operations uh of the big shop and in particular how they intend to operate this bagel shop um in addition to uh the new heisen we do have our professionals here tonight uh yogus mystery is our architect he is sitting down there just waved his hand he's a licensed architect he will provide testimony regarding the design renderings that you see before you as well as some of the interior uh designs that we plan to do and as well as um exterior circulation regarding the property Aden and con are our engineer sitting in the front row will provide Our Testimony regarding the site plan uh including addressing comments made by Mr Simmons in his report uh and then finally Alex McAn in the back is our professional planner and he will address the planning uh comments and report that was prepared by the board's planner uh and we think we have a pretty good application uh we're hope that you're as excited about it as as we are and we can um give you everything that you need to make a favorable decision we are requesting a few variances we have a variance for impervious lot coverage 40% is permitted we're excess of that we're over 90% and we're going to give you the rationale for that I think it's Justified obviously otherwise we wouldn't be here requesting it uh also variances related to the signage the uh the signs as you see on on the building and yogish will go into the rationale behind uh the size of the signs and why we have them but we we have four signs one's an existing freestanding sign that we intend to repurpose plus three additional signs ordinance allows three we have four and then some of the sign area uh dimensions of the signs as well are in Access of what's permitted by the uh by the township we're going to address all that and give testimony and support of that and then finally design waivers relating to the parking itself so we're going to go through all that that's that's the lineup for tonight uh Mr Collins you want me to bring them all in and SAR them all at once um yeah why don't you do that and they could bring chairs uh up to sit with you u i I don't know if you need all the fact Witnesses at once but profession up here get that way you guys can chime in as needed so yogish ad in Alex please you may remain standing gentlemen and please raise your right hands do you swear from to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I thank you and starting on my right your uh please state your name spell your last name and give us a business address at least AZ engineering 150 River roaders mcen m c l 3 Street yogish Smith Street y g es class name is m s r y 350 Clark Drive bu Lake New Jersey thank you gentlemen and before each one testifies please provide some qualifications sure absolutely um you may be seated now gentl this is a little awkward for me so I'm just going to sit down and use the table microphone if that's okay that's good yeah we have to get it the mic is a little weak so we and we need to pick it up on the recorder so I'll try that'll be good all right thank you so as I was uh explaining this is an existing non-functional service station and the application here tonight is to convert that into a uh a Bagel and Deli Shop with a permitted use in the TT in the TCC Zone where the property is located and for point of reference it's for Sparta AV near the ball field uh if you for those of you who may not be familiar with that uh Alex I believe did bring overhead Aerials that were taken today uh of the of the um location so we can pass those around as well when he gives his testimony to further familiarize yourselves with the the location uh but first let's let's talk about what we want to do and to do that I need yogish to uh stand up please and just give the board uh your your qualifications please sure if you do have if you're going to stay we don't mind if you sit because the mic at the table is better than the remote mic but if you want to if anyone wants to stand please take that mic and speak uh directly into the remote mic um I'm I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey I have been since uh 2000 I believe um I have a practice in Bud Lake New Jersey where we design um new structures uh similar to this as well as office buildings uh retail buildings hotels Hospitality spaces and so forth uh testified as a professional architect in front of many towns uh I believe Sparta it's been some time but been Sparta before um and my license is in good standing right now thank you sir the board will accept your qualifications as a licensed architect please go ahead thank you yog if you explain to the the board what it is that we're looking to do here sure this is a an existing um I guess bacon or abandoned uh service station uh to my understanding it's been vacant for over 10 years um it's located at for Sparta Avenue it's right on the corner um and the front of it kind of faces the the post office uh strip mall um the the space the the building itself is about n590 Square ft um right now the interior is essentially just it's empty you know there's a couple walls Still Standing but um you know the shell is intact but the inside is essentially vacant and kind of deteriorating um so uh our client came to us and you know with the hopes of converting this to a bagel store he has other ones that we work with him on and so this one was uh uh you know a good good opportunity to uh Implement their their store uh when we first did the design we did an interior layout to you know capture all his D functions internally uh and it just we kind of looked at it various ways it just was a little bit tight so what we had to do was propose a small addition it's about 322 Square ft off to the to the right of the the building so um and in that little addition is just some more of their functions there there's a like a walk-in cooler and freezer and some storage space so you know we just needed that to to kind of make uh The Bagel Shop work so um I think the the total there was uh 322 plus the 1591 it's about, uh 14 square feet total um it's still going to be one story we're trying to keep the the look of the building generally the same but it it um you know with this kind of small addition and inside the space there're just going to be um uh sort of a full kitchen for making their bagels they they also have a um you know a small griddle and friers for for some you know small sandwiches things like that they have their uh coolers and sandwich stations and just some uh you know sort of food storage and then there some washing areas for uh for their kitchen um toilet room I'm sorry to interrupt they're asking to unmute you're I guess you're you're muted so oh thank you if we could just pause for one second I apologize we still won't come off it's not on mute not on M um to check can anyone just do a quick check on on the phone to see if go we had this problem before once I think I could hear but I think is it on our side that's muted no it's yeah it sounds like the room here is muted from the executive session no it's not M just one second do a quick check I don't hear anything testing testing no no there's nothing unmute is there someone that we could give a quick call I'm going to if we restart it or toggle so gentlemen I'm going to ask me if we just I apologize um technical difficulties we just take a a short five break see if we can get this resolved and that way we can continue with the live stream for the public absolutely thank you on so we can microphone Janette it Jette check one two check one two that's why I'm looking for it this big I hate opening that one okay I don't hear I think I have it the design check one two can you hear it yeah check one two check one two check one to check one to okay he's the IT guy is going to connect through the streamer it guys looking at right now yeah yeah and it's there's still nothing there's a delay Magic Christmas EXC me Ghost of Christmas Past we get some good minutes out on this okay you just want to take it from the top uh yeah whatever the board desires no fine is it being recorded though that people can go back and listen to it tomorrow I don't know I don't know I would assume that if the audio is not working on the initial part of the meeting it would not work on the recording as well I'm I'm seeing the closed capturing has turned off so I don't think it's to your point it's recording to be audio audio at all but it's two separate tracks yeah video and audio so okay okay um I'll start from the beginning again please thank you sure um okay so so this is an existing property at 4 Sparta Avenue it's on the corner of uh Sparta Avenue in woodport um it's an existing structure uh it was previously used as a service station I believe and it's been vacant for some time uh I was told about 10 years or could be even more than 10 years um the existing building has a footprint of 1591 ft it's just a one-story um sort of slop sloped roof structure it's um internally it's essentially empty except for a few walls that kind of subdivide a few of the rooms in there um so our client had uh saw the property he liked it he liked the location and wanted to convert it to a Bagles store um but when we did do the layout within the existing footprint we realized we needed a little bit more space um so our what our proposal uh looks at is expanding that I'm going to maybe refer to the drawing if that's easier this [Music] time um I'm referring to sheet 8 2.01 of the architectural uh submitted drawings this one's dated August 20th 2024 I'm not sure if it just needs to be not it's part of your regular exibit that we submitted with the application no this so this is the same uh document um so this drawing essentially shows the floor plan at the bottom of the page and the the four exor elevations to start with the floor plan um the the larger rectangle is the the existing footprint this kind of bump to the right which is about 15 ft out and 21 7 long um that's the addition it's kind of shown cross-hatched um currently accommodates the the walk-in cooler and walk-in freezer and some storage and then the balance of the space is used for uh everything else there's a a kitchen area for the the cooking of the bagels there's also some portion that's used for um sort of uh friers and and griddle cook there's a sandwich station um there's kind of prep areas cleaning areas um I guess everything else that a kitchen would need um and then there's kind of a long counter which that's where customers would come and purchase their uh their food uh there's a toilet and there's also 12 um seats for uh you know people who want to come in to eat a quick sandwich and leave so um that's kind of how their other operations uh function as well um and and essentially that that's the interior there's no second floor it's just a uh kind of a an open ceiling right now um and you know the whole thing is going to be gutted and cleaned up and sort of new new finishes new you know new lighting and all that so it'll be a new Fresh space um as far as the exterior of the building we wanted to I'm going to refer to a rendering um I'm not sure if this was submitted in I don't believe it was application so I'm going to mark this that'll be A1 today's date so I've marked this as A1 it's the rendering 3D color rendering that our office prepared um showing the proposed uh building as it would look at you know when it was finished um you can see kind of that the last Bay to the right is the addition and then the other other base to the left is the existing structure um so the the original application that was submitted did have different finishes on the exterior there were comments that came back from the planner report and you know one of the comments were to try to make it more in line with what the TCC standards call for which is a little more traditional looking a little more um maybe a little more brick and and you know just changing some of the finishes we had more stuckle before so you know we took that into consideration we're coming here with uh what we're proposing now is is you know more of a traditional uh facade you know we have kind of this the reddish brick that's on there we're going to supplement that in the in the new edition um we are putting some Hardy on there and some kind of uh trimmed boards I think the other comment was about some of the more modern light fixtures which we've kind of um sort of redesigned to be more traditional we do have a gooseneck light over the the one side sign so you know all in all I I think it's a wellc composed facade I think we were just talking earlier about some of the finishes on here essentially emulate what's across the street and um not in terms of the exact look but more the materials that are on the uh the strip mall across the street so I think it it fits in well with the um kind of that downtown area uh I think it's it's a big Improvement on what's there now and it's kind of freshen things up um we are asking for um a variance or waiver on signage uh we are proposing there there's actually four signs on the property there's an existing freestanding pole um that's already in the parking lot you can't see it in this rendering but that one we're going to keep and it's just you know they're going to have to just reface the the actual panel um but we are proposing three building signs and you could kind of see there um to the far right there you know there's a kind of a logo uh signage on the wall and then near the front door there's there's a kind of a a larger sign over the front door and there's a sign facing the left elevation and the reason for the additional sign or signage is that this is a corner property we want the visibility I think if you know people are driving on uh woodport versus uh Sparta they they still could see the signage kind of more wayf finding um I think there you know as far as the scale of it we thought was appropriate we're not looking to sort of you know flood the whole building with signage but just enough that's appropriate um the one illuminated sign is this one over the door we just felt that you know during like winter time and when it gets dark early or um you know in the afternoon or you know early morning it's you know so we want that to be illuminated the other two aren't this one is just a non-illuminated sign and this one is not illuminated but just kind of has the goose neck that uh will will light it up um we we thought it was appropriate we didn't think it was way out of character so we think that's what we proposed I I think there was also um there was another comment about the condenser or or the HVAC equipment it just briefly before we get too far ahead of ourselves so uh the testimony that yog the facade was referenced in two reports one from I'm sorry one from Mr Simmons and one from Miss sad uh that's uh item 10A in Mr Simmons's report and then also uh item three c one and uh two in mad's report so I just want to make that clear adding those addressing those comments yogish go ahead um yeah and then the one of the other comments was about the if we had any hbac equipment um on the roof we don't have anything on the roof it's not we will have a small air handler in there it's going to be a condenser associated with that uh we don't show it on this plan but you know when we submit for uh final compliance we will show it we'll have a small condenser and we're going to put it it's kind of screen because we do have a trash enclosure in the back and then essentially just the wall of the building and there's like this little kind of empty Notch area which is where we're going to locate the the condenser so it will be kind of screened and out of the way um yeah I I just think overall it's it's a good uh it's a good project it's you know trying to take a underutilized building that's been vacant for some time and refreshing it and you know having a nice look um you know some of these overhead doors are going to you know be all new glass panels and so forth so um I think that's it any questions of yogish from the board or board professionals yeah I I think I'd like to take the architecture separately tonight if we could maybe ask questions along those lines and then we can continue on with with the others later so why don't we start with our professionals um Mr Simmons you like to go first uh Mr chairman again looking at my report of October 22nd 2024 uh as the applicant's attorney mentioned item number 10 uh they have addressed uh with regards to screening the HVAC it's going to be in the back of the building as I understand yes back right so that won't be visible and there's no additional HVAC Up on the Roof that has to be screened um with regards to the lighting uh comment that I did make uh the one thing I can't see it from here on exhibit A1 but the one thing I was going to suggest uh there is a pretty much of a standard streetcape if you will along spart Avenue with the lighting that's the type of fixture that we were really suggesting that be utilized even like a wall mounted fixtures no even if it's one of the freestanding lights or if there are any on site those type of fixtures just to blend in with the street skate well I mean I'll let our site engineer comment on that and I I see him nodding yes we are still proposing some sort of traditional ones on the building regardless I guess okay what Mr Simmons was your suggestion to the exclusion of the goose neck or in addition to well I wasn't sure it was more like a scon as I recall that you had before more of a modern look so perhaps I don't know if you have any smaller handouts that show the lighting your proposing you could pass around or if you could get that to us I I don't have the handout notes but I I could definitely get you uh specification on trying to keep the streetcape theme in the area underst that's all I have for this Mr chairman okay thank you Mr thank you can you just I didn't really get a chance to see it just a turn yeah perfect thank you um I only had a couple of of comments in the review memo um I mostly laid out the TCC Zone architectural requirements in my memo um but wanted to leave it up to the applicant to describe um some of the architectural design and I do appreciate them bringing a colorized rendering I think it provides a little bit more than the black and white that we had in our plan submission um before I even saw it it sounded like it was more responsive to the TCC Zone um and looking at it it looks it does appear to um to capture the TCC Zone requirements for architecture so I appreciate that and I have no other questions um Brian you want to go first yes sure um so initially when I did see the um the siding I didn't know it it was all stuck out again I don't agree that that would fit within uh the sparta Town Center so thank you for for changing that to Brick and the Hardy Board um I think some of the questions I have is is this can I get into the signage now or is that so the signs so first question would be what are the hours of operation um I'm not so yeah we'll have that's pertaining to the the signs though I can tell you because you're talking about backlighting signs during winter hours but why do you need to light the sign well I mean just you know I know the bagel chefs tend to start really early they do close early like 3: or 4 I believe but um it'll probably be more that those morning hours when it's dark that that's on versus okay so the 5 AM and and whatnot okay and then my other question would be and the town Ordnance why are you making your your sign so large what's the purpose of that um I don't know we didn't feel think the one's like 3 feet high right why why I I think it's part I mean when you measure that logo there I think that was about 3 ft it's just you know we thought it was appropriate obviously we want people to see that you know this facility exists here and you know if you're driving down the road we we just thought that was okay the size you would need to kind of so that's more for scaling purposes based on the size of the building I no I I mean even if the building had was two stories or that I think you still need a sign about the same size as for the general visibility of it and then you then you have propose a a freestanding sign that's back lit as well the free standing sign is the one that's there right now it's a pole one out in the parking lot can I continue on on the signs with that is that okay you we don't have all of them yet no yeah okay can we come back I guess we'll come back to that but I I don't have any I didn't design that sign because that was just that's an existing thing that we're just going to we're going to leave alone we're just going to put a new panel in there okay yeah all right then I have no further questions can we talk at this time about um the property itself and you know this is a contaminated site it is a brown field and is is that appropriate to discuss this now I I just have a couple of questions probably better address to the site engineer the oh professional engineer not the architect but yes we can ask that during this hearing okay so then I'll I'll hold my questions just kind of back on signs here but there's something in front of that white car what is that no the other car the circular sign yeah so that is it's like a more of a wall graphic sign but you know we just wanted to call it out on because this wall was just we don't have Windows here because there what's behind it is just a walk-in cooler so just to dress up that sort of blank brick area we showed a sign there okay but that's so that's one of the four signs but it's not really a necessary sign yeah we you know based on our design we felt that it was appropriate but I mean yes it's an extra it's the fourth sign all right um do you have a generator no what happens if power is out for 2 3 Days To The Food um I don't know they would have to find some kind of I think we can we can we can address that question with with the applicant we we'll answer that question all right I'll come back to all that then thank you thank you for your testimony so far uh first question is the roof can you describe the roof a little bit more the color the materials the general appearance of it yeah so it's essentially the same roof that's there we're going to strip it and just put new shingles it's currently uh asphalt shingles there it's just it's like a charcoal gray color um it'll you know the roof will be extended to cover the additional area but as far as the slope and all that it's all the same we're keeping the same structure and framing we're just going to strip it down and and re sort of reshingle the roof okay the uh I had the same questions actually about the circular sign it just seems a little seems a little large from this this Viewpoint here and just thinking ahead being you have four signs that would seem to be the least um valuable sign of all of them is it's going to be partially covered by a vehicle and it's not as High um just trying to think ahead it looks it looks rather rather large too I didn't know what the purpose was um the illuminated sign which is in the front right the larger one with the logo can you just describe that a little bit more the colors the the the lighting color lighting type it it would be like a back lit you know like Channel letters with with back lighting and right now we're representing that as as black uh you know the faces and then the light would be sort of coming from the back of it a white light or yes white light white light behind it okay so I I think at some point we we would like to see we would want to see the close-ups of the sign designs including for the existing post to see the panel to make sure that the look and feel of that and the colors and everything fits into this this is this is exactly right in the center of town want to make sure it has the right look to it the uh finally the uh the timing not necessarily concerned about timing of operations but can you describe the timing of the lighting I mean they're linked but um I I I can't say for sure I think I'll let the the owner chime in on that but I would probably say that it's whatever their you know hours of operation would be but I'll let them answer that question okay uh it's the brick as portrayed looks like a red brick is that correct or light red a reddish tone yeah okay okay that's all I have for now thank you okay I just want to focus on the signs maybe from Little bit of a different angle if I can so you know when I look at each of the signs I don't think any of them or meet the ordinance standards I think each one requires one or two waivers so my question is would you consider redoing the signs to bring them into conformance with the ordinances can I can I have two minutes y it's mostly the height and the for I mean they're they're two feet this one's four feet right one's 2et they're allowed 42 square foot they're proposed 76 it is a small building it's a small building I mean you need to see it from two different sides um sometimes the dimensions and conversions on a really tiny building are going to seem large you if that's the scale I mean I'm assuming it is sign whichs me they don't need that one extra well the one one is tring to the addition ack start problem good point to from the post office standpoint or I don't know I think B might be yeah it's it's like half brick half um it half something else not hard approved by the state of New Jersey state like in a sense they're trying to convert a gas station to it's not a brand new building I don't see a sign okay thank you so uh we discussed the board's request and we are agreeable as a condition of approval to eliminate the uh what was described as the white graphic sign on the brick wall and then which would leave us with three signs so we' be in conformance with the number of signs on the property and then bring the the building signs uh the pops Bagles as you see in conformance with uh Township codes okay thank without also include I believe one of the signs was internally lit um which is not uh allowed within the TCC zones I think some the the sign one was we would eliminate there would just both be regular signs non-illuminated and then sizewise they'll be in conformance with okay okay thank you that still leaves us with the freestanding sign fre which we would like to keep understand um in terms of improv coverage is that could be handled here or by somebody else so Adon can Adon is going to speak to the approv coverage hold off on that okay um the parking itself is that going to be covered here the spaces Adon engineer yeah okay you should have gone first okay um I wanted you to see the pretty pictures first no fun looking at site plans let me just look real quick okay I think it's all have fored now thank you all right and so Mr Collins just before if I may Mr chair just want to confirm those conditions we oh before we get the public for questions I want I want to finish going down the line for the board though first uh can you talk about the 300 20t addition that you're adding to the end of the building yes I'm referring back to sheet a 2.01 um the existing building is you know this kind of large rectangle to the left it's 564 1/2 by 281 um that staying as is we're going to just create a large open opening on the end of the wall so the addition is off to the right it's essentially adding like one more Bay um it's about says 14t 11 in out further and then depthwise is 217 so it doesn't go all the way back it goes about or 3/4 of the way and then there's enough room to accommodate the dumpster in the back so but within this this volume essentially is the uh walk-in cooler uh and walk-in freezer and then some storage along the back wall the addition is not extending all the way to the property line no no there's still uh and you're proposing that uh the dump truck or the garbage truck will come through that opening that it's going to create some kind of driveway there no I I I believe that the the the trash dumpsters will have to be rolled out into this kind of open area and the the truck would come into this driveway area in the front you know load it or unload it and then just leave from there the owner can provide testimony on on that as it relates to the operations of the store that is that is correct the intention is to wheel the dumpsters out from the enclosure into the parking lot where they're accessible by where they'll be accessible by the uh sanitation trucks okay um there's currently brick on the building now is it going to be the same color brick that's existing or is yeah we're we're trying to reuse some of that I I you know I guess the part that's over here and then we're going to continue the same look at the rest of the building thank you no further questions can I can I ask a followup question on that do you anticipate any visual difference between the Old Brick and New Brick or is it going to be will be seamless yeah we're going to try to keep keep it as seamless as possible I mean there are sort of enough breaks in the like like this is this is the existing portion so these are like sort of clean brakes that it's not you know sort of married right up against each other okay so the old would be on the left the new would be by the the bay yeah vary the color here it was more of a design element you know we kind of change the brick color to a little bit darker one but but the other kind of these peers would be the the same color as the existing okay thank you or as close as possible just one question the freestanding sign is that illuminated as well what's the status with the lighting on that well right now it's the whole thing is like I know falling apart but yeah I believe it is illuminated there's like a you know interior panel that allows for elimination in there all right and then as far as the brick goes you were just describing you may have three different shades of brick trying to marry it together or are you looking to do a total renovation and bring one uniform no well I wouldn't be I wouldn't say three different variations I mean we're this is the existing we're going to match the that brick as you know close as possible this we just just Vari the color just for the sake of creating a design right I mean I mean it's hard to match brick you know that's been there for a while with kind of newer material so um I we could I'll hold off on that but I would would hope that it would be consistent you know with the site as well as the surrounding two buildings that my colleagues have referred to across the street with the post office and the adjacent neighbor to the right of your picture so that's all thank you thank you so much um can you describe um the pitch of the roof please how how much it shallow it's it's essentially existing it's shallow it's probably like a maybe a 4 on 12 I'm just we don't have a label on here so I couldn't tell you exactly but whatever's there is what's going to remain because it's there's a structure there I mean there you know roof beams and all that so we weren't trying to sort of we're not trying to rebuild the whole building I mean you know part of this budget was that he could save parts of the building and and just kind of reface it and redo it so um yeah the pitch is what's there now I think some of the on a sheet on sheet a 101 is uh some photographs and that kind of shows what's there right now and that's the same slope that we're going to keep thank you how do how would you say that it compares to the post office and to the building that is diagonal from it well I mean I I I don't think in ter of character it is the same but I think just in terms of materiality you know there's some there Hardy Board just break and um you know there's some kind of Hardy panels so I think there's some correlation there so you'd say that the character differs uh quite a bit from the post office to the to the uh building that is diagonal that I believe the law office is yeah yeah so it's yours is more of a flat roof whereas the character of the other buildings is more pitched yeah that I know that post office building definitely has like a much steeper pitch to it but yeah more of a colonial traditional type of style yeah I I think also what helps you know Town centers is the sort of a variety of buildings that exist as long as they individually look attractive and you know are sort of consistent in terms of material materiality um and yeah this this does have a certain distinct look it's I think the result of trying to transform what's there without having to like knock the building down and put a you know an identical building that that's adjacent to it it's really you know we had to keep certain elements cuz he doesn't want to rebuild the whole wall he doesn't want to redo everything but you know where there were overhead doors we tried to put some nice glass panels so you know at least to compose the the facade so it it looks mhm this this building is in the center of our town right it's located right in the center of our town M and it's very visible yeah correct all right um what what do you say about the color of of the building is that does that blend in with the post office and the building uh diagonal from it yeah I I believe it does I think it's it's generally some neutral colors I mean you know the the kind of natural color of the brick and the other colors that are there really just kind of are sort of more Earth Tone type colors so I guess I don't I'm not seeing that from where I am are I I'm seeing a lot of white is that a gray there well yeah there there are some highlights in white but then this is sort of like a a warm gray color that you know it's also sort of banding the corner and the top okay thank you I have no further questions you're welcome the uh you have you proposed two two entrances and exits on both on uh one on spart Avenue one on woodport road uh no no there's only one entrance to the to the parking from the road uh parking again I I kind of would leave it to okay I'll leave I'll leave that to then that's right that's all I have I think most of my questions have been answered around the building completly G you guys want to kind of savor what's already there um my questions are probably more around the the parking lot and the breakup of the parking lot versus the road to keep keep the character which we can talk about next but those are probably more of my questions so okay one more question that I think goes to you um deliveries like there's no spot for delivery Vans or how are the deliveries going to be made the the owner will uh answer that on operation that's an operational we view that as an operational question and the owner is prepared to address that fully okay uh just one question I have on the drawing there what is the date of the what you have for the a201 um sure we got the right revision August 20th 24 thank you I I do have another question so because I'm not sure how large the um your uh your facial board is there it is rather large right well I'm not sure what that is 8 in is what material are you planning to use are you wrapping it in aluminum or are you using more of like a Hardy or an EAC trim board you it's either going to it most likely be Hardy that Hardy sells different trim packages as well and we try to match the color of you know the the the siding there okay now we don't want to use the aluminum if that's just from an Aesthetics point of view after time that gets dented up it doesn't look great so okay thank you okay uh unless there's any other questions I'd like to open up to members of the public for any questions relative to the testimony that you heard okay Vian could you speak to the mic thank you yes um I just wanted to read Vian please raise your right hand yes do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do please V your name and address and SP Carl M 5 Morgan Drive I wanted to uh just remind you the other corner is that pink and green office building so to to require these people to match the pink and green building is a different you're you're starting out with the fact that you've got the post office complex which is brick red brick so this should be questions to the applicant I think if stage oh I'm sorry that's okay be a chance to comment I I just wanted I just heard it seemed um that some of you were asking if it was going to match the buildings on that intersection and I wanted to to um provide the information or remind everyone that there's a pink and green uh building opposite it okay thank you thanks thank you anybody else hi Mark Scott 92 Parkway Mark please raise your right hand do you swear airm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God yes sir um the building across the street the post office building has five tenants and has five different fonts and has five different uh five different sizes of print well you're font be matching any of those five different sizes of fonts or um well for one thing we do have to reduce the sign to kind of make it in conformance with we agree to um I I'd have to you know talk to the owner about the exact font and you know he's going to talk to his Sign Guy about what exactly gets put there but I doubt it'll match what's in those I don't even know what's on the five different signs currently but no um I I I think you know Gand and Times New Roman script what I'm there's a little bit of sarcasm okay all right but uh thank you okay any other questions okay thank you okay uh I guess we should probably bring the next witness yes thank you Mr chair um can we before we do that Mr Collins would you I just want to confirm the conditions so far so I think we just have that we have agreed to eliminate the white graphic on the right hand side of the building and then bring the other building signage that is the signs that are on the building into conformance with the Township Code that's where we're at so far that's sign number two is the one that's being eliminated is that the correct number I don't know if we number but the round okay yeah it's the ground sign is it sign number two that we have at label the big one number yeah the big white the big white graphic thank you okay Adon how are you and Tom that will I guess they'll submit that to the mon cyber plane subcommittee if the board wants to yes okay we'll work that as we go as we go then okay thank you all right thank you so next we have Aden Khan he is the principal uh with awz engineering Incorporation he's a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey and Ed would you just give your credentials and qualifications to the board please sure uh I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering master's degree in construction management from NGIT uh professional engineer in multiple States testified in front of federal court Superior Court and over hundreds of boards throughout New Jersey doing this for over close to now 35 years so the board will the board will accept um Mr Khan's qualification as a professional engineer please pleas go ahead and your license is current and in good standing that is correct thank you okay so if you wouldn't mind I just going through I know you've heard some of the board's uh questions before you answer those questions you wouldn't mind just giving an overview sure of the uh the site plans that he prepared and then address the comments in Mr Simmons's letter and as applicable uh Miss sarm's letter as well absolutely uh so I mean the plans that we are looking at right now I'm presenting are dated August 16 2024 they are the exact same plans that were submitted to the board uh as you all know like um the project about the project it's a existing structure that's been repurposed to a bagel store uh we have a zoning table it's located in TCC Zone uh there we have a zoning table which list the requirements what are the existing conditions and what are the proposed as far as the variances we are seeking there are couple there is one pre existing non-conformity that is going to be continued as part of this project and then we are seeking a variance which actually is the reduction from the existing condition for the lot coverage and I'm going to explain as I proceed with that uh we also requesting some design vavs uh mostly the parking layout uh or the parking dimensions and the requirement for the curbs and the backup PES uh which also I'm going to go over and and again during my testimony I will try to answer some of the questions I heard from the board members as well as they are in Mr Simmons and the planning report sheet C- O2 is the existing conditions plan which depicts the existing building which is to the South along the South property line it is about 3 and A2 3.5 ft from the site property line which is the existing condition and existing variance the requirement is 10 ft however the existing building is only set at 3 and 1/2 ft from the rear side property line to the South so this is one of those existing non-conformity uh currently there are three driveways that used to serve this gas uh facility or gas establishment there's one driveway along woodport uh Street coming in actually they are all full service like both in and out entrance and exit then we have one driveway or a curb cut along Sparta very close to the intersection uh right here and then another one which is little bit wider driveway that is further down uh West on Sparta that were servicing the existing facility uh the about 98% or close to 99% % of the site under the existing condition is all impervious uh it's a pavement the building the sidewalk so 99% of the site is impervious the requirement for TCC zone is 40% for the lot coverage so what we are doing is of course we are making some changes and uh they are depicted the site conditions the proposed conditions are depicted on sheet c-03 labeled at site development plan uh as you heard uh from y like this is the existing building that is going to be repurposed and we are putting an addition to the west of the existing building uh we are also doing some changes in the overall circulation and elimination of curb cuts the the curve cut or the entrance and exit driveway on woodport uh road is going to remain so it will still serve two week access for cars coming in and cars coming out the Eastern uh curve cut that was very close to the intersection is going to be eliminated it's going to be uh uh restored to full height so this because again we feel like it's not safe because it's so close to the intersection so we believe like uh we should eliminate that so we we eliminating that curb cut completely uh the curb cut to the West uh along the northern property line we are I mean currently I think it's close to about 40 ft depress curb we are again repurposing it and making it wide enough we the curb cut will be 28 ft the dry while will be 24 ft so we are reducing that curb uh curb cut as well because I think uh that will channelize and streamline the traffic both coming into the building uh into the prop property and leaving the property so we are making these adjustments uh uh to the driveways in addition uh we are also eliminating some of the impervious coverage uh the area that is to the South uh to the South this is all pavement right now we are reducing that we are eliminating that and changing into the either Mulch and grass area similarly a small section to the uh than property line that will be uh transformed into grass or mulch area and we are also proposing uh along the facade or the intersection of the two streets some green area the idea there is to soften the look and also reduce the imperious coverage uh we understand that we are asking for 92 I believe 92% or approximately 92% but it's a reduction from 98.5 to 92% uh to the extent uh we can accommodate and also we are proposing some green which this area uh I will go to the Landscaping plan can be landscaped to bring some little bit enhancement or uh curb appeal to the property based on the use of the building we are required 13 parking spaces we are proposing 16 uh including one when accessible handicap parking space and uh they are located to again it's in the front yard uh this is also one of the design exception that we are seeking the parkings are not allowed in the front yard and we are asking for it unfortunately this is how the existing building used to and where the existing structure is there is not much room to provide parking anywhere else and this is slightly if you look at it it's an art- shaped lot one other comment and I think it's in the professionals report also based on the survey our property line goes up to the curb or the edge of pavement however when the surveyor was doing the survey they find a description that at some point uh a portion of the site was either dedicated or in easement granted to NG doot so what they labeled is what they call proposed right of fill line so which essentially reduces the lot uh we probably have to do some title search to see if that has been already dedicated to do or it was just a proposal but for the sake of this project what we did we took the worst case scenario in calculating our setbacks the coverage we use the proposed right of V line so that we don't uh I mean in future if we find that okay this is it then we meet all the requirements based on this line which is uh approximately about uh I would say 20 ft from the existing edge of pavement so the calcul the the calculations that were performed were a worst case scenario is that safe to say that is correct yes so any variances that you see or existing existing conditions or existing conditions but design wavers they are all based on on the proposal that our property is this proposed RightWay line not the actual property line which encroaches another approximately uh 20 ft uh to the edge of the pavement okay so going back to the parking so we are proposing 16 parking spaces there are a couple of uh design exceptions that we are looking for here uh the township ordinance calls for parking spaces to be 10 by 18 or 180 Square ft what we are proposing which is an engineering standard 9 by8 uh so there is a design exception but in my professional opinion 9 by8 is that we use throughout uh like any fast food chain or any malls any place you see 9 by8 is a standard engineering practice so in my opinion uh those T that exception is uh not going to create a significant uh issue as far as the circulation uh the backup aile for the perpendicular parking is 24 ft uh the parking area close to Wood uh woodport road is uh 24 ft which meet the requirement however the backup area along Sparta uh we are proposing 20 ft uh there are two reasons one I mean not reasons but there are two re two reasons yeah that it is 20 ft one we are taking the backup Dimension to the proposed right of a line as I mentioned uh however as I mentioned before like there is more than 10 ft before you hit the edge of the pavement so and then also I'm going to go over a sheet where we have a drawn up a circulation plan where we use a uh ashto passenger car template to make sure like any cars parked in these spots can make the turn without any uh significant difficulties and they can come in and out of the property and I'm going to go go over that exhibit as well or that uh plans so and then also I believe there is another design exception we are seeking is the curb as for the township ordinance a curb is required along the property line or along the pavement or the driveway area and uh uh the property uh the reason we are not proposing any pavement because there is an existing sidewalk and which ab buts right to the next to the uh the parking area and in order to maintain the existing grades for any storm water runoff because right now the way the existing grades are we are keeping or matching the existing grad so that we don't significantly change any runoff pattern from the site so that it affects negatively to any neighbors so that's the whole idea there so that is another design exception one of the design exception is there is a requirement that we need to have four Fe from the parking spots to the building or and the sidewalk however we are proposing sidewalk uh or parking spaces right next to the sidewalk of the building so again uh I don't think so that uh that particular deviation will create any uh safety or circulation issues it's still a good design uh and we are also proposing some wheel stop so that when the cars are parked they're not overhanging into the sidewalk to hinder any uh uh pedestrian traffic on the sidewalks so we are uh kind of compensating that uh with the carve cards sorry wheel stops in the parking spaces sorry not to interrupt but um the the parking space dimensions are shown in total does the curb the sorry the wheel stop um can you give the dimension of the parking space up to the wheel stop if that if that changes anything uh the parking space up to it's usually 1 and 1/2 ft to 2 ft from the end of the parking for the wheel stop so I would say 16 16 and a half okay thank you okay uh sheet co4 is just a grading and utility plan uh so uh again uh we going to evaluate all the existing UTI that are currently serving any utility that is deemed uh uh not up to the code or require an upgrade will be replaced there will be new utility lines for that service if needed otherwise whatever the township requirements are like for sanitary we will TV the line to make sure the line is in good condition it meets the requirements and it can be reused uh going back the trash enclosure the trash enclosure is stuck behind the addition and uh as you briefly touched it the idea here for the pickup and drop off is uh the trash enclosure will have wheel bins so the day of collection they will be brought out either into the uh parking lot somewhere uh and then the track truck or the waste management hauler either whether they're picking up recycle or solid waste they will be coming in uh actually they will be responsible to bring out the uh bins in and out they empty and then they put the bins back again and then they will leave uh we are not proposing any loading unloading uh for the project and the reason is uh again the loading or the vehicles that the applicant usually utilizes for this kind of uh use is either delivery Vans or a box truck like FedEx Vans and UPS nothing any no vehicle larger than that is anticipated to bring any deliveries to the site and we feel like between uh and again those deliveries are can be scheduled they can be scheduled early in the morning or late when the store is getting closed so I don't think so there will be any conflict as far as utilizing any of these spaces for loading unloading during off peak hours to the use and they can park and then they can deliver or whatever they need to deliver but again as I mention it will be U delivery Vans or box truck that is the maximum that uh size vehicles that this U use will utilize okay uh we are proposing uh some exterior lighting I know yogesh mentioned some of the interior and decorative lighting along the building and if I understand Mr Simmons comment regarding that light I believe you're talking about the streetcape light yes and I know like there is the one of the last po on the right of the is just at the property line to the West there is no pole in front of the existing property so I believe what you meant is that you want to add uh another pole a decorative light pole along the right of it or uh basically any poles that we were going to have a light on we'd prefer that to match the existing light fixtures further up on spart Avenue to maintain the streetcape Okay so not necessarily we need one on in the right away but anything on site that's right okay yeah most of the fixtures that we are proposing is like uh again we are proposing uh LED light fixtures which is downward throw full shielded uh there's a light pull and most of the uh lights originally that we designed was uh again this kind of a fixture but I know like in the rendering that yogesh prepared they changed the fixture type so we will model it and we'll try to accommodate to replace this light with one of those lights that are within the right of okay and try to match that okay uh sheet c-06 is that circulation that uh we are showing like if the cars are parked uh within those spaces they have ample area that they can turn around and come in and out of either of the driveways uh on both the streets so passenger car uh and this is a template for passenger cars and we feel like they they should not have any issues as far as utilizing any of these parking spaces and uh and one thing I know like there were quite a few questions about the pylon sign so I have a picture on sheet co7 uh this is an existing pylon sign I mean uh just uh ignore the sign itself but this is how it looks like it's a long pylon sign it's about 12 and 1/2 ft High 8 ft long and 4 ft deep uh right now it's empty there are there are no surfaces to it to me it seems like it used to be backlit like there used to be some mechanism inside the light inside the sign that used to light both the faces but right now everything is gone so you will just see a big rectangle there so that's what we are proposing a sign to resurface that sign as far as the height and everything it's going to remain the same it will be relocated into the green area towards the intersection however it's going to be reused completely with the resurfacing so this is what uh the existing sign looks like close to and uh that's pretty much I have uh my notes Here I think one of the board members one of the board members was interested in the current status of the remediation of the property yeah as far as I understand and I I was told is that currently the site is going through lsrp remediation process with ngd correct and uh it there are some wells that's been monitored and I my understanding is they're getting close to getting an NFA from the lsrp program from D okay thank you expand on that I'm sorry you go ahead I'm sorry I I just had a question with regards to the proposed addition is there anything in that that would disturb the area you know uh from the contamination standpoint uh uh the foundation and I think uh yoges can answer that better than I do but the only thing that I see is the excavation that's going to happen is probably the foundation for this structure which can be about 2 or 3 feet down only it cannot be further down because you usually you need certain uh depth for the foundation the frost below the frost line so you're talking about like maybe just a trench area 34 ft down and my understanding is since there are ground M monitoring vals my guess is like there are some active remediation program for groundw because when the gas station would have been REM elimin I mean taken out of commission one of the requirement by DP is to remove all the tanks okay so before any of that construction would begin they would give the okay DP would give the okay that it has been fully remediated that is correct without that they cannot continue with the construction okay it might might be the license s professional but let's go over the it might be the the the DP has authorized pursuit to the technical RS that certain people called licensed site remediation professionals uh are authorized to approve uh the details of remediations um so it might not be the actual D worker it might be the uh license site remediation professional who is a private consultant to do that but they're licensed to they are licensed and and but let's go back a little bit and just try to recapture sure so who is doing the remediation here is it a is it a petroleum company this the former owner former owner is doing the remediation and you mentioned that uh there's a groundwater monitoring occurring uh over the years there have seemed to have been some um U 55 gallon drums on the side of the building as far as you know has or do you know Mr Khan whether the all of the soil that was contaminated if it was uh was removed was the was the soil cleanup completed on this site I'm not aware of I'm not familiar with that okay and if if you're doing some digging uh do you know whether there's a what's called a a cap an engineering control or cap on this property again I'm not uh previe to the remedial action remedial action work plan that might might be approved by the d uh but again uh any construction or any disturbance to any of the remediated areas have to follow the remedial action work plan so the applicant has to uh dur once the permits are issued whatever are the restrictions and requirements in the remedial action work plan they have to follow that okay and so that's something something one second that's something that maybe Mr wner can can investigate is is there a declaration of environmental restrictions on this property imposing an an Institutional control of an engineered cap it it's interesting that 98% of the property is impervious surface which is is typical of a cap I'm not saying it was a required cap I'm not saying it is required but if it was then to pierce it even for even for temporary period requires approval of the SRP and for removal of something under it uh or through the cap actually requires the lsrp to approve that so it's a detail that we'll ask you to investigate I'm not sure it we want the site to be remediated your the prior owner is doing that that's a good thing uh groundwater monitor ing is is help very good and there are the fact that an lsrp is involved is extremely uh helpful so but but if you could get more information on that absolutely Mr Collins and and we would also uh as a condition I it goes without saying I hope it goes without saying comply with any environmental regulations in particularly in particular environmental regulations attending to this particular site and construction that may occur on the site that absolutely will do to that yeah and I I would like to add Tom just to just to really maybe try to simplify it a little bit if there's you know what type of Rao NFA that is the lsrp looking to issue if it's a restricted Aro for soil um or unrestricted for soil that's important to address Tom's issue of regarding a cap if it's unrestricted you don't have to worry about a cap right or engineering controls the groundwater just confirm if they're um under a natural attenuation program or they did active remediation to get their eight quarters of clean samples and then the lsrps uh um able to sign off on that sometimes contamination does get trapped in footings they that doesn't get discovers until you open the site to your earlier point so that was just going to impede your your development or your construction aspects if that doesn't uh get addressed up front but I think Tom summarized I mean it's we'll get a little bit more information on the environmental status and the timing of which the remedial action plan work plan was is you know submitted Andor when are they looking to issue the the remedial action outcome absolutely we will definitely look into it and of course without that the applicant cannot do anything to the site so all right thank you I think I mean that and that's just Tom you clarified that the existing owners responsible for the remediation that's what the applicants Representatives have indicated so the property's been transferred or is conditional upon issuance of environmental sign offs yeah who owns the property right we we own the prop we have contract right so we they you held they held the liability in managing the environmental aspects you own the site correct all right thank you see I have did we get all the questions the board I think over the reports yeah I think over the the reports at this point you touched on much of it cut um you know you you mentioned you're going to move the freestanding sign and uh you mentioned you're going to move it to the landscape area but isn't the landscape area in that right of way that you uh your surveyor picked up from a do plat or something like that no if you I'm again looking at sheet c-03 and if you look close to the intersection the plans we are showing the location where the sign is going to be relocated it's going to be relocated within the proposed right of a line inside the property and it's going to be 5 ft as required uh from that uh uh proposed right of a line okay so it won't be in the do right away that is correct yeah I see the the the dotted line is the theot right way the that is right the take DED line yeah okay and is the sign is the free standing sign pylon um consistent with the ordinance size and height uh it does not uh let's see yeah but see we said before you're going to try to you're going to comply with the size of signage and I building I'm just thinking about it I mean it's it's not historic sign or anything uh yeah if you if you're going to comply with the size of the sign and the height of the sign for for the ordinance it seems like you might as well put a new freestanding sign if if that's allowed um but would you consider elimin or or reduce the height of it I I just I just want to focus on since you're moving it anyway and you're going to comply with the ordinance how are we going to do that how are you going to do that yeah currently the the requirement is 12 square ft uh the yeah let's see 12 square ft of the sign area and the existing sign is about 32 square ft and the height wise I I believe it's conforming the distance wise we are keeping the distance is 5 ft from the right of so we are complying with that all right okay I think the board's going to want you to comply with the 12 feet so I'll defer to them though so I got the [Laughter] nod no problem the preference would be to consider eliminating it if you would think through that too just because it's right on the corner right in the center of town no and we do appreciate the the board's concerned on this is the rationale for um wanting it there is because in particularly now that we're reducing um bringing into compliance the the building signage um there's really not going to be um much curb appeal in terms of hey this is Pop spangle um hopefully at some point and I I am sure that it will eventually in a short number of months uh be very popular in town and outside of town um but eliminating it all together with the reduced size of the signage on the building is just something at this point we would prefer to avoid if if possible but we will bring it into compliance with the with the Township Code could you at least make it look like the post office wouldn't sign I got to check this post office out because it's still must be some post office no it's say you know there is a free standing sign there but it's wood in are you familiar with the post office sign uh I'm not familiar with the sign I'm familiar with the post office but we can we'll definitely we'll take a look at it yeah because you have so many colors in there and the backl issue to um and you want to keep it in conformance with the rest in the area we'll absolutely look at it and uh see we have to be careful because it is also although it is a a light intersection you don't want to block sight lines intersections like this these are there a lot of movement happening at this intersection so um they may have to look at that a do may have to look at it uh yeah this will be subject to do view as well yes yeah can I can I just ask one one quick question going back to the entrance and on woodport road you said that there would be an exit and an entryway correct it's a two-way driveway yes it's a two-way and then the one on Sparta a is it just oneway it's that's two-way to it is two-way to I wonder because bagel shops in this town are so you know busy if you go on a Saturday morning a f a Sunday morning they're packed people are trying to get in I I'm thinking about the one on 15 you know you're they're so busy and I wonder and again I'm not an engineer if any thought was given to making one of them just one way an entrance and the other one an exit just to avoid you know a lot of you know backups it's a busy area yeah I think uh what your comment I believe DOD is going to raise that comment too and based on my experience with do they will probably make this driveway exiting only right only they will not allow any left turn coming out so that's that's what I'm foreseeing that that's the comment that we're going to receive from do once we submit that they don't want anybody to make a left turn crossing the sparta Avenue and go there so that will the first thing that they will probably comment and make us do I mean Ernie you they made they made they may ask the same on the other driveway just because of the post proximity to the intersection that is correct exactly but while we're on that topic this is the last building on wport road before the intersection light MH where you cannot make a left turn right correct the building before you has minimal entries and exits and I think it's just a glass Factory or manufacturer or something um so my concern is that since it's a one lane coming I guess East on woodport towards the traffic light for people trying to make a left where where the town does not let you make a left at that light and this is only about 10t or 25 ft in front of it would you consider making that an exit only and the other one you mean this as an exit yes the do not enter okay your right hand turn yeah it's so people don't cut through or or or or you can make a right into there but you can't make a left that's something we can do that actually make both of them no left turn uh and we can put a sign no left turn so that even if somebody wants to cut through and try to make a left turn they can make a left turn yeah that makes that would I think that would be from a safety standpoint I think that would be a good idea that's something we can do that yes so so so good discussion what I'd like to do if we can um Mr con know if if you finished with your testimony um and uh yes I okay so I'd like to let the professionals have a chance to go and then we can go up and down the dies as we typically do and give everyone a chance to to ask the questions so um if you finished I think uh Katherine would you to start with you this time sure thank you um so I know we started the testimony um your testimony with the discussion of about the right of way and just the clarification that I raised in my memo um I just have one further question related to that and is that the I know you mentioned the setbacks were based off of that right of way line whereas the total lot area so like the total impervious coverage also based off of that I think your plan showed 11,266 Square F feet is anything in the zoning table you see is based on on the reduced lot area gotcha thank you very much um as far far as the um the the refuse enclosure the plan detail I think I noted includes a dumpster um and then it shows can recycling cans that are um either roll on or in independent um you'd mentioned during your testimony that the refuse would essentially be roll out bins rather than a dumpster enclosure uh it again it depends upon uh the Servicing Company what they will prefer based on the location and how they have to pick and drop off so they use usually have multiple choices like what they can provide but we can get a smaller bin too like you can get a 2 yard bin which is probably only 3 ft by 4T long so I think they have to make a usually what they do is before the contract they usually come at the site they look at it what uh equipment they have to send to the site and what bins will work based on the access and all that stuff and then they basically decide okay yeah you can have this and we'll provide that the detail is a very typical detail it's not s specific so it is subject to change based on the B Hollow company okay so I guess my my only question or concern that I that I raised in the memo is that where the Refuge enclosure currently is located if there was a like a a truck with hydraulic lift where it had to it had to lift your typical fixed dumpster it really doesn't fit unless you have to go unless you can go on the other site next door and there's no fencing or anything it's open so I just want to make sure that either if that is what's proposed and the board is aware of that and and the adjacent Property Owners aware it some sort of access agreement um or if it's not then we then we stick to what you've testified to and and that to that point also like if you look at our grading plan uh it's not connected there is about a 2T wall okay that separat because we have a great difference between our Ag and neighbor yes so we are proposing for our side we are proposing a 2T KNE all do so it's to be accessible from the side so when you mentioned the that kind of like two cubic yard dump dumpster of trash uh Bin that'll have the ability to be rolled out of there into the front of the site yes okay so I just I mean if this is approved I think that I'd like to see some sort of condition that that will be maintained in a cleanly way because F food refu being dragged throughout the site get unkempt so I think that that's just a way to capture enforcing that in the future [Music] um I I I don't know if it was addressed but um I just made a note about the parking spaces and and the requirement for the EV charging spaces um for the make ready at least pursuance of the state law um can you just provide a little bit of a update on that uh sure uh we are not required per the law we are not required to provide any EV because it says for commercial facilities with less than five parking spaces you're not required to provide an EV so that's why we are not proposing any EV charging stations okay um I do I I do differ a little bit in opinion on that I know I I used to read the DCA the this the model ordinance the same way because it did um it required it and then it Exempted it in the same within the same paragraph um I think the DCA had issued um Statewide kind of guidance on how to handle that and I think that they had indicated that any parking spaces up to the 25 requirement would require one EV make ready space um I can send that to you as well so you have it yeah it's been really helpful for me so the DCA guidance does kind of note that the the EV spaces are still required in that 25 space question to that though then also the EV ordinance requires that at least one handicap parking space has to be Eevee so which means that one space has to be the handicap I I have to look back at the guidance it does also include that because the 5% is such a low threshold that when you do just have one space um it's unclear of what that what that's included so I'll get back to you on that I don't have it off the off the top of my head um but it but there is something to the effect in that guidance that discusses that I do know that if that's the case and we have to comply that's a state law so we have we will comply with that thank you um I know throughout the discussion th far and some of it was with the other witness um but there has been some elimination of variances I guess we can summarize that at the end but I do think that's something we should do because there has been some moving Parts here um so we could we could discuss that either with the next witness or like I said when we do wrap up [Music] um oh I think my other my one other question was related to um any kind of shade trees um that are required for the ordinance um or any other the landcaping requirements uh we are not proposing any shetes um however if the board I mean I don't want to provide any provide any shetes too close to the intersection but we might have a room here and there that we can squeeze small or evergreen trees so we'll take a look at into it and then see like whatever we can okay I guess part of that will be also pursuant to if the site is capped um if there are any kind of site disturbance restrictions um but I do think that Landscaping would go a long way on a site particularly because it was almost fully impervious in the past so even you know a street tree or two could help beautify um and kind of reclaim some of that um Katherine real quick on if if they were not to provide shade trees would that require a design waiver I I believe so um yeah I I think they they might need it just a some design W for that and I I don't think I have anything else at this time thank you you Mr s yes sir Mr chairman again going back to the report I prepared dated October 22nd 2024 uh with regards to items four and five site plan issues and parking and loading spaces the applicants professionals have gone over uh a lot of that information just a couple other things I'd just like to point out uh the one thing on this particular site the applicant engineer can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe around the perimeter of the existing paved area where it fronts on spart Avenue and Woodside Avenue there's no curb there and that's one of the things they were asking for Relief on and the one thing about that is that allows the sheet flow off the site which is an existing condition so they're not disturbing that the other reason I bring that up is uh as Mr Khan brought up on the woodport side with the parking spaces they do have the 24 foot aisle width on the sparta Avenue side it's slightly less than that about 20 ft but the one thing I noticed and I checked it out on my way over here tonight if someone was backing out on that site the reality of it is without going into the traveled way of Sparta Avenue there is a concrete sidewalk there that's basically flush at the same grade as the parking area so basically if someone backed to a little bit further they'd be backing onto the concrete sidewalk and not grass or have a curve there to stop them so you do get approximately 4 foot more of width as far as that goes to get close to that 24 ft just as a point of observation the other thing that I think uh uh should be discussed as far as that goes with regard and it depends a lot on how the dot affects the traffic movements for the parking spaces uh on the spart Avenue side on the called the Westerly side uh would it be possible for the and I think this was in your Traffic Engineers report to make a couple of those spaces employee parking and the reason for that is that would help minimize the amount of in andout traffic they are conflicting with the entrance off of spart Avenue so if that was acceptable to everyone would that be all right yeah I think so I think that that is the plan I think we did discuss it with the applicant and he's okay with that okay so in in addition to that uh I think there probably should be a a couple signs there employee parking only just so it's clear so someone doesn't pull in there if one of the employees doesn't show up early enough right sure so we talked about all the other parking situations then going on to storm water management uh it's in the Township's ordinance that if you increase the impervious by 500 square ft or more you're supposed to provide storm waterer mitigation but in this particular plan they're actually excuse me decreasing the impervious by a little over 751 Square ft so they don't have to provide mitigation in this particular case and as I indicated before a lot of it sheet flow off right now the one thing that I did notice when I did the site inspection was along the Westerly side the common property line between the applicant's property and I believe it's Burks liquor store right next door uh today more or less the pavement runs into each other it's like a Common parking lot type area but as Mr Khan pointed out they're proposing approximately a 2T high wall not as a retaining wall but basically as a delineating wall along the Westerly side and then a portion of the rear uh property line to where he's pointing on one of the sheets right now U the one concern I would like them to check on that by providing that wall and the grading that they've shown we may get some concentration of storm water going to the end of that wall back by by the trash enclosure and I just want to make sure it doesn't create an erosion issue and a problem for the neighbor to the south at the end so we can take a look into so you can check on that yes uh with regards to the lighting plan I believe they've agreed to uh look at the street skate fixtures and upgrade them as as appropriate uh did we come up with an hour of operation for the lights we we have not um I can bring Haan marz up to to speak to that um but the the uh store is closed the store will be closed by 300 p.m. um start shutting down probably 2:15 230 getting things ready for the next day so really the effective hours of operation gets are at 5:00 I think 4:00 4 o' um so that's awfully early uh so for to you know 4:00 it'll be it'll be lit maybe a half hour before 4 um but we we can get yzz is or ha testimony on that but certainly it's not going to be lit at night uh when the when the store is not in operation okay then moving on to the utilities uh again I know there was a report from the director of utilities for the township I think they have to coordinate with the sparta utilities office as far as the sanitary sewer lateral to make sure the addition or the trash enclosure doesn't for close getting in there to service that as needed the necessary cleanouts um again again my understanding is the existing service to be checked by the plumbing subcode official you may have to upgrade the size of that line depending on the water demand and the water fixtures uh with regards to Landscaping plan I believe you covered that as far as adding what Landscaping may be permissible based on the requirements to keep the cap on and that type of thing the architectural plans we went over as far as where the HVAC is going to go and the building Reser Renovations I think on the signs we basically talked about that and the applicant basically has agreed to bring basically things into conformance um is there any I don't think there's any existing sprinkler system or would one be required or proposed I'm not sure about the I don't think so it's required there is no existing either right uh we talked about the environmental impact statement as far as my understanding is the previous owner is responsible for all the de P mitigation and monitoring uh with the construction details again I noted just a couple things with the reinforcement and the retaining wall details I don't think you have any problem with that no not at all and then under miscellaneous as normally we do we recommend an ASB built plan by the applicant's licensed land surveyor upon completion of the project and I've listed the various agencies that I feel uh would probably have to issue an approval on this subject of any of their conditions plus any other is that I might have missed and that's my update Mr chairman okay thank you all right so bring uh bring it back to the Das I think uh we started with you last time so why don't we start down this side sure if you just take just quickly talk about the kind of the landscaping or the breakup that you have on the one side between the road and the parking lot uh sure uh the area by the intersection this uh I don't know if you have the plans in front of you but this cross hch area with with the plus sign this will be all green okay uh the same thing this whole strip in the back by the parking the or the side actually is going to be green and then we are also adding some green by this uh with the addition and the trash enclosure is going okay is there any reason maybe it's due to the requirements but that you're not doing it along the long side as well actually this is all I mean I I think I don't know if it's the township streetcape program there are pavers in front and the side walk so we don't want to change that because it's it's a continuity to the other neighboring properties so I probably it might be a street scape project that the town took some whatever uh so that's why we are keeping it the way it is okay all right that's it um basically my questions have been answered uh Mr con of the uh you know my uh I I think a uh no left turn out of both driveways is a good good idea and uh and I agree with our engineer on uh employee parking spaces so we don't have someone backing up and then having traffic stuck out on Smart Avenue I think that's a another good suggestion I know it's a tight spot um but I think those those suggestions make it work thank you yes I also had um several concerns about the traffic um at that side and the flow of traffic so um making no leftand turn would be great or a one-way solution um so we'll see if either one of those can be implemented and I also had a lot of concerns about the um the remediation and what status it was in so it's good to have those concerns brought forward I did want to ask you though because you had um said that you're um having um a certain number of parking spaces you're only required to have a 13 but you're going to have 16ct and and uh why wouldn't you uh just do something with those parking spaces to improve the um attractiveness of the property to enhance the the property if you only are required to have 13 you know and and you're going to have 16 yeah we we looked into that like if we can add some green area by eliminating parking the way the site is like currently uh if he I mean we can I mean of course like we are three extra parking spaces but the way they are located or the area that is available for parking it's very difficult that you can convert it into a green area or something so that's why we said it's better to have more parking than uh eliminating it and just leaving a blank space there well it you know my concern is the storm water runoff and I just wanted to ask you because that is just like a sheet of black asphalt there that water I'm assuming the outlet goes directly into the walkill river I I believe so yes we'll look into it and see like if he can uh maybe eliminate a a parking here and there and turn into a Green Island or something uh within the parking so as long as the board is okay with that like uh we can take a look into it right because now you don't need to have a like a drainage place and or a facility now so that would you know I think help quite a bit so thank you for considering that um I think that's all I have thank you all right first of all um appreciate your test your thorough testimony um just quick question how many anticipated employee parking spots um um our ear Mark for the site I think three we are anticipating three employees yes so three for employees 13 for customers customers yeah thank you uh Mr con thank you for your testimony uh some of the concerns I had were brought up by uh Miss Burke and and Mr rad earlier um I I'm looking over some of the documents from some of the other Town officials and uh Mr Simmons maybe I can get you to comment too I thought the Fire Marshall says that fire protection systems must be installed but I thought you just I thought I just heard that they're not going to be uh I by code we are not required to have any sprinkler system and I I I will leave it to Y to answer that but I think what the Fire Marshall letter also says that they we need to install a nox box and all that stuff which is going to be we will comply with those comments how does the town Define approved Fire Protection Systems my my assumption is and that's something to be confirmed with a fire marshal what he may have been talking about is not necessarily a sprinkler system for the entire building but a hood type system uh with the appropriate reagent to control it in any kind of cooking area that may be what he was referring to okay um and then also Mr long had uh had a call out about an removing an existing sewer line cleanout that was the one we were discussing where I believe he thought it might have been in the area of either the dumpster enclosure or the addition okay and they wanted to make sure that in fact if that was the area where the existing lateral came out that it be relocated as necessary in the appropriate number of cleanouts installed so that it could be serviced if there was a clog okay thank you no questions Mr chairman if I may yes I I just thought of one other thing I just wanted to make the applicant aware of I I remember when our office years ago did the street skate plan for spart Avenue and some of Woodside Avenue and one thing that I I can get for the board's records and also for the applicant at that time the New Jersey DOT required us if I recall correctly to prepare a jurisdictional limit map and the reason I bring that up uh some of the fixtures for example the light fixtures the pavers and what have you aren't necessarily standard do type treatment for a roadway like that the dot allowed it because of the Town Center type of setting and the attractiveness of the area but on that jurisdictional limit map there's actually some notes that say do is and I'm just doing this off top of my head do is responsible from Curb to curbed but the pavers and the lights are the responsibility of the township and what was approved and what was allowed and what wasn't allowed so I just would like to get that in the board's records and also to the applicant because they're going to be going to the dot and that way if they bring that up it's not a surprise to you thank you okay thank you great thank you yep y okay uh couple questions um one of the things I'm that I'm struggling with maybe everyone else is see in it but you say there's a reduction and impervious coverage so when I look at we're adding to the building I wasn't really sure where the reductions are could you show that to us uh yeah this area that I pointed out earlier like with the hatch this is all uh asphalt surface right okay so so we are basically taking the asphalt out there and turning into green area the same thing over this strip here and this strip over here okay great so you're you're you're updated previous coverage it basically includes the new Refrigeration um that's good yes okay um is the addition on top of an area that is previously asphalt yes okay are okay thanks um one question I had we could put this off uh to till later if it's it's not not the right person when I look at the freestanding sign if I take if look away from the dimensions and just look at the sign itself there's a lot of information going on on that sign and when you look at the Town Center standards for what it's how it design should be it you know it's and you can find this in our master plan you can find examples it's basically just the name um so when you look at the signs again I'd like you to consider maybe looking look at what's in our master plan we could send give you a copy as examples and have it conform to that type of a messaging as opposed to the hours of operation and all that um I talked about the illumination uh so I have a little little concern um with the the dumpsters and the idea we're going to wield them wheel them out um you know what I want to make sure is they shouldn't be in public View at all so if they're going to get wheeled out how you know how long are they going to be out there I mean again this is right on the corner in the middle of town are they going to be in the public View and and how are we going to ensure you know they're that they're they're um Can to be brought out and and brought in in the proper amount of time yeah my understanding is like it will be probably couple of minute operation the pickup uh contractor they will come they will pull up their car they will they are the one responsible to wheel it out it's not something that the applicant is going to wheel it out in the morning and let them come whenever they come so it's basically the pickup company will be responsible to open the doors for the enclosure wheel them out empty and then put them back right away so it's not going to be there for considerable amount of time so I'm going I'm going to look to our professionals here is that a normal practice is this something it just seems different to me the fact that it's going to be out there in public uh Mo most of the time well you've got different haulers that use different mechanisms uh I've seen some and and and Sarma brought up the point that you know a 2 cubic yard dumpster metal dumpster that that's a big heavy unit and what I kind of Envision more here in this case um for example I've seen going through Branchville the other day Waste Management they've got those green rolloff not not rolloff green rolling container ERS they may have several of them that come out and there's mechanisms on the side of the truck that dump them in the in the hopper that type of thing I think that's more realistic uh because I think you get those big two cubic yard dumpsters and they're metal they're heavy and then you got the weight of everything inside it so I I'm I would defer to Mr Khan but I would sooner think the waste management or the hauler is going to refer to something like that yeah usually like my experience I think is on the same line like again usually these are polyethylene type material yes so they're not metal like the smaller ones that's right and so they are not very heavy and usually like even if they bring a smaller truck not a regular garbage truck they are equip equipped with the mechanism to lift and empty those containers out and I think because you may have a larger number of those type of containers but each one is smaller in volume so that's less weight and each one more manageable I think in this case and and I just want to if I may just clarify the testimony because I I understand it and appreciate that it's a concern of the board the containers themselves will be hidden from view the contractor whoever that contractor may be will will retrieve them from the enclosure unload the garbage and then put the containers back whatever those containers are and then close the gate okay thank you for that so so they'll be out there but just enough time for them to dump them and then they put them right back correct and that's what I saw in Branchville the other day okay thank you may may I just ask a question if we are discussing kind of like those roll out bins which are they max out at like 96 gallons or so how one how many could fit in an 8 by8 enclosure and um how much trashes well how frequent will trash pickup be to to capture that amount of waste yeah as far as those 96 gallons I would say we can fit probably three to four okay uh as far as the schedule I believe it'll start with two days a week and uh again it see like if if it needs to be more frequent then uh the applicant will have to add another service to that okay thank you sure and that that is part of the testimony that the applicant will provide to the board but I I do know that it is um a concern of theirs to to be good neighbors and they're mindful of the food and you know what it can the nuisance that it can cost so they they will be very diligent in removing the garbage as much as it needs to be removed okay all right um another question I have is relative to the Loading space you know I I have a concern with the Isle width on on the front where it's I think 20 ft and and what I want to make sure is my concern is that what if a a truck was to pull up park in that aisle and there's really not a lot of room for cars to move around so would it would it make sense to maybe put a loading space in there and have less parking spaces yeah going back to your comment uh I mean U if you have to do like a loading space loading and loading I would probably do it by uh on this side because then they have at least 24 ft to back up and then they can go out the other way I I think from a safety perspective you know again with traffic backing up again and not having the aisle width I'd like to see that if you guys would consider that yeah we'll absolutely consider that you you will also hear again testimony from from the applicant shortly probably before we hear from uh Alex on the planning about the operations and the the deliveries will occur outside of operating business hour so the the state of concern of the chair regarding um customers who might be pulling in and out is is not really going to be uh a concern because the business will be closed to customers at that point but we'll have that conversation okay all right thank you thank you um and that's all my questions all right thank you again for what we've heard so far uh one question I want to go back to the landscape U you mentioned about grass and mulch have we haven't talked about actual shrubs and vegetation is that what you're planning though because there's no landscape plans I just wanted to clarify that yeah and that's something I think we discussed like again we can add some shrubs and if possible some trees maybe a low high trees or whatever if you are not able I mean and also like share trees along the front edge depending it's not obstructing uh the side triangle and do approves them okay so yeah we'll look into that yes and uh we always ask and the environmental commission always asks to if you could use native non-invasive species absolutely okay um also I wanted to bring up the we haven't talked about the uh traffic report that you had uh commissioned and uh I just wanted to confirm and see if there's anything you wanted to add to it it's does state that there are based on the analysis there are no changes in the levels of service for any of the movements during the morning or evening peak hours when compared to the existing conditions um and also to no build and build conditions um and also it it concludes that the proposed development will have little or no impact on traffic operations at the intersection um and based on the analysis the proposed development would not have any adverse impact on traffic operations or safety on the site or along the adjoining roadways um any other commentary I mean that sounds positive to me I just wanted to make sure that you don't anticipate any okay yeah I I can explain I can uh elaborate on that again that report was not prepared by us or by me but I did talk to the traffic engineer in detail because unfortunately he cannot he has a conflict today uh first thing he wants me to mention that the comparison that they made or he made based on the it e requirements there is no requirement or requirements listed in it manual for a bagel store uh usually the requirements are for uh fast food like Dunkin Donut 7-Eleven so the traffic generation of a bagel store a mom and Shop Mom and Pop Shop bagel store is much different than uh franchise store so unfortunately but they don't have any other comparison so he has to make that so there in his report it shows that there will be increase in the traffic and of course it will be compared to what it was before and we agree to that but it's not going to be as severe as uh Dunkin Donut or store like that so that's one thing uh the second thing that he mentioned is also is the layout the parking like how it's going to work and again pretty much what I testified is listed in his uh report as well and uh again now since we agree that we might put like no left turns on here that will improve the circulation even better than uh what when he prepared the analysis and he agreed to that though so yeah okay so coming out of this reading this and your testimony again just to confirm there's no anticipated based on the study no no negative impact from extra traffic or circulation according to this stud no and actually one other thing he mentioned also our bigel store timings are 4:00 to 3 3:30 so we're going to completely miss the evening Peak period that's true so which starts from 4: to 6 yeah so so actually it will probably might be better than uh if a gas station was there before okay so I think it's also worth noting that uh Corporal Morris uh reviewed the the plans and the reports and had had no comments actually provided the opinion that he did not see any traffic related issues with this property so okay if if I could just follow up on that one subject so I guess I was kind of expecting that we'd get a presentation on the the traffic report itself from someone is is is that the intent or is is this it that yeah there is the traffic engineer cannot be here to to report on or give testimony on his report we submitted the report um and then based off Corporal Morris's no comments or favorable comments on on the um report that was provided and the plans that were provided regarding traffic and circulation we we know we don't have him here tonight okay I'd like to finish going down the the DI so maybe Mr Simmons like to get your thoughts on what you saw would the traffic report any questions or not I I did review the report Mr chairman and uh couple things number one uh with regards to the traffic generation that he referred to in the report they took a lot of those figures out of the it uh traffic Generation table and I believe for the I believe for the Assumption of what the gas station was when it was operational I believe they used a four pump model as far as generating the traffic that would come from that and also for the uh proposed facility I believe they used a dut shop uh with no drive-thru and if you go to those it tables uh basically for example with the dut shop with no drive-thru they have a series of studies uh that have taken place and they come up with a a figure of so many vehicles per in the peak hours in and out per thousand square fet and in this case I think the total was about 19912 Square fet something in that order and as I indicated before there's tables when it was a gas station where you can do it by a th000 square fet or in the case of what the traffic engineer did by the number of pumps and for the number of pumps times a factor gives you the In-N-Out trips in the morning peak hour and the evening peak hour uh I believe he had the 11th generation of the it Journal I was only able to put my hands quick on the eighth generation but I did the figures and they come out substantially the same Figures it's not order of magnitudes different or anything like that usually what what happens is they go up in the different generations of that it manual uh one of the things that's up stated is the number of studies that are available uh and if you look at the graphs that are present in those studies uh basically they'll plot it a function of the on the x- axis of the number of trips and on the y- axis the number of square feet and they have different data points and then they use what's called a least squares regression analysis to basically fit the best straight line to that data the more data you have the better the the better the estimate it's a range so my bottom line point point is the numbers that they came up with as far as the level of service goes and the traffic generation I generally agree with that and uh I think they were also the thought that by putting some of the as Mr Khan indicated putting some of the uh employee only parking spaces by the uh west side of the parking area field uh would be good because those spaces aren't going to be going in and out and conflicting with the vehicles coming in and causing an interference there uh Mr Khan brought up a good point that I guess he and his traffic engineer talked about was that even though they had the figures in there for the PM Peak announ peak hour uh they're going to be closed so the data that was presented in the traffic report was very conservative from that respect because if they're closed they're closed and you make get a couple people going in and out doing maintenance work or whatever or cleanup but basically I don't foresee it being an issue that way thank you yes sir yeah I apologize didn't mean to jump no no I'm good um just wanted to share a thought that um we don't have to decide now I just wanted to raise it as a consideration I'm not sure how the my fellow board members feel uh back to the signs the freestanding sign on on the close to the corner intersection there is still sticking out of my my head um I don't know if if the board would feel comfortable relaxing of the standards for the two signs on the building back to a little larger in exchange for not having the freestanding pole um just throwing it out there as a consideration as I understand you don't want to have the smaller signs on the building and no pole you really don't want that pole side just want to throw it out there I can't force you but so that's a consideration I'm not sure what others feel though um you know removing the pole Al together and then perhaps the building signs being a little larger you know and but you need visibility people need to know who you are and see it um just putting out there for consideration Don decision right now that's all I have it's a good thought I'm not a fan of the poll either um just to clarify because you said you would be opening at 8:00 a.m. is that when employees are coming in I'm sorry 400 a.m. is that when employees are coming in or you will be open for customers customers yeah I think we're I think we have to we're we're at that moment have to have the witness but they did say you're going to open it for y for business so okay because that was the question with regard to the lighting and when that would go on all right back to my main concern here um for the parking on Sparta Avenue the requirements would be 20 ft 24 the backup you mean no no no the the required not what you're asking for you're asking nine for by 18 but the requirement is 9 by 10 by 18 10 by 18 I'm looking at this and it says nine so um is that right Dave that's what I'm looking at but I think it's 9 by 20 9 by 20 okay so it's 9 by 20 and you were proposing 9 by8 so I'm just taking the 20 ft now so if the requirement is 20 ft 24 ft in between and then 20 ft for the other cars that's a total of 64 ft versus 18 20 and 18 that gets to 56 ft so there's an 8T difference that's a huge difference in my mind um and I'm just wondering if there's any way maybe with some parallel parking or something and anything you can do because 8 ft is huge and we've got some big cars I I think uh I mean the the way I think that I understand what you're saying is like a parking space then the backup area and then the parking you don't have that scenario on the side we only have parking on one side and then the backup so in other words it's not something that the oh so start the aisle and then parking on left and parking on right okay so so we parking on one side you for all the backup areas actually show show the board where the parking spaces are if you look at it let me pick up the handicap one this is the parking space and this is the backup area okay then we don't have any parking on this side yeah the same thing here like I mean these are the parking spaces and we have 24 ft before actually yeah 24 ft before we hit the next parking which is the different direction mhm all right so it would be 20 plus 24 that is required yes yeah so that's 44 um but it's going to be 18 and 20 yes 38 versus 44 and just just again as I mentioned like 9 by8 is considered as engineering standard for the parking like uh the one that you see in the malls or even any St I get they are like all 9 by1 18 but there's a asking for a w waiver of variance for one and the other but really it if it's combined you're still talking short six feet yeah yeah yeah okay I just have to think about that for a little bit [Music] um could you just point out where you're going to have that wall that delineating line for the properties you said there was a 2T wall somewhere oh it's by the property line to the north along the property line okay and then it ends up behind the building instead of putting a wall could you put shrubs uh help your impervious coverage we can put actually this is the green area this is asphalt no matter what so so either we can do a fence well it's asphalt now but just like you're removing it on one side no but that will affect our parking and the circulation on the side but here we can put the shrubs on the top of corner this area is green so we can put some shrubs there but you said you would put a fence or a wall that's the same thing as a shrub as far as circulation goes no but again the I the thing is like we don't have the pervious area to grow anything and this is all asphalt and we need it for the backup and the circulation for the cars coming in and out of the parkings I'm still not understanding they would back up into a wall or a fence or a shrub what's the difference I said the last car is parked here okay so if they're turning around they will turn around and then they move so and again this area we need it so that if they need to go out this way they can always like I mean they can they have some backup area so that they can turn otherwise they will be doing couple of K turns in order to make that turn so that's what we provided this asphalt area in order for us to provide shrub this area at least uh be under the hatch area needs to be turned into green so that may affect the Turning movement of the cards probably water space a wall yeah yeah I didn't know how I thought yeah yeah okay um those are my questions thank you you're welcome I think you've answered all of my questions at this point um again no construction obviously until the site is remediated and you're going to uh you're going to um it's pretty complicated let them investigate their current status you can actually um there's no prohibition against construction or even use as long as you comply with the tech rigs so and groundwater remediation could you know it's this sounds unbelievable but one of the models of groundwater remediation is natural attenuation and the model allows for 20 years of natural attenuation but you can still build and use property that's subject to groundwater remediation the pp Tech RS allow that they don't prohibit that uh and even if there's this other thing of a declaration of environmental restrictions with a cap there are ways to get permission to uh Pierce a cap and to use the building is there that building could be used today um um so it's not quite as Extreme as you're thinking Jan you don't have to get into that level of no no construction until it's remediated because groundwater remediation uh is an ongoing thing even even when it's active it's an ongoing thing but this this seems to be a passive uh natural attenuation remediation I don't think there's any equipment out there any longer I think there was equipment out there in the past that's that's why I mentioned the um drums uh but we'll let the applicant get more information for you for the next hearing on this and to Echo what Tom's saying in that report get an update I they they probably were required to do a vapor intrusion uh or if it triggered vapor in a VI study I mean that's obviously important for the interior parts of the building for for everyone whatever remedies to address that if it's there but I mean if it's addressed in the environmental uh Consultants report then so be it so just just so that I'm clear when we say that the prior owner has to remediate the property is there a timeline yes but let uh it's very complicated the regs are extensive uh there there is usually a uh what's called A administrative consent to it or an ACO I'm not familiar with this particular property the applicant should provide that information to you perhaps there's a status report from their Li their lsrp licens it mediation professional that has been done in the recent past which indicates its status and that kind of report uh could be provided as part of this hearing just to give us an update so that we know that they can dig into the about 3 feet down into that soil that's next to the on asphalt and and that they're going to build a building on uh and that there's no Declaration of environment restrictions requiring a cap that cannot be pierced I don't these are all standard things now and the D's uh Tech rigs so they'll they'll be able to give us an update so okay thank you thank you um I think we touched on everything Joan did BR up the the retaining wall which I've been thinking about um real quick do you have a material that you plan on using to build this uh it will probably be concrete block wall like Keystone Len block type like a small knee okay I wasn't sure if you're were going to do you know frame it and pour it no no no no it's going to be a decorative uh that or even you know a a brick veneer to match the brick veneer with the blue stone cap something along those lines one of those uh aesthetically p thank you so it's aesthetically fits in with the Town Center thank you and following up on that oh do you have another question no that or we'll go bounce back to you on this can you put some portion of a wall at the end of I mean I don't care where the parking on sport Avenue they're backing up where there was a concern that it could back up into the sidewalk into passengers can you put little something up there U I didn't get exact like uh this area yeah somewhere in there yeah cuz you said when the cars back up there's nothing there and they if they overshoot it they could go into The Pedestrian area okay that you mean the sidewalk yeah the sidewalk yeah actually it's pretty wide like there's a sidewalk and then you have a p walk so it's not something that if the cars overshoot it they're not going to be in The Pedestrian walk of which is the P area so they're still like about 8 or 10 ft there though and again any improvements that we do any retaining walls anything that is all subject to doot approval because that is technically do no you know what when you're talking about I'm just realizing the shooting over was on the sidewalk going down the other side if I understand correctly let's say if a car is parked here and they they want to back it off we are providing 20 ft back up if they overshoot they will be in this concrete area and then we have the P where The Pedestrian walks okay so so I think we have UL area there so that's I think that was the comment they're it's it's a it's a concrete and paved area that's seamless with the pavement now uh they can't say it's theirs because of this do uh taking or the D is funny they basically just declare what their right of way is and you're stuck with it it's been that way for decades so okay I'm going to do a time check here um we want a little bit later than we than we normally do here um you know so we don't start any new testimony after after 9:30 it's quarter to 10 haven't had the public I want to give them an opportunity to to ask their questions but then a after that's done then we probably need to set a a date to to pick up a continuous to to complete the application certainly okay so any questions from the public Jenny derk's tap into Sparta Jen please raise your rightand you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you go I do um just going back to the circulation of the parking lot there seems to be um a rationale to make it one way there's a lot going on in that intersection right now where there is a timed there's a sign that has a timed um carve out for when no right turns are permitted meaning if you're going to go right there you're interacting with that in the Ingress and ESS of the parking lot and likewise coming up um my directions are not good so coming from say the library and going towards the bagel shop there's already a jug handle that because you you're prohibited from making a left turn at that intersection so if you're just going a few feet down the road and making an a left turn into your parking lot you're in you're in a sense recreating this same circumstances that are currently mitigated by The Jug Handle in other words you can't turn left into the parking lot it's not just turning left out of the parking lot but the way the road is configured I hope I hope I'm not I hope I'm a little clear on what I'm saying the way the road is configured now you can't come up to the traffic light and go left you have to first go through The Jug Handle am I is that clear so if you're just going a little bit further past The Jug Handle and turning left before you get to the intersection you're recreating the same circumstances of danger that were that were anticipated in the creation of the no left turn at that intersection so I I'm just asking that you consider the one way through the parking lot um it might not be as convenient as you'd like but accidents on a regular basis like we seen now at North Village certainly won't be convenient Miss dks I think I I brought up that same point and Mr KH you said you would put a no entrance off of that off of woodport no left turn into that parking into that entrance no exiting it out exiting out the the left turns both properties on either Road whether it's Burks or the other property are allowed to make left turns into their buildings but for the going up to the traffic light you would have had to make to go around the traffic light handle you would have to go around a Jug Handle and go up and or vice versa the other I'm not talking both properties adjacent to either side of this property do have left turns coming down or on both sides you could turn left or right and cross 181 or spot AV the pizza place there's really no to the to the previous testimony there's body shops right behind it though that that driveway in there you could you can glass place to the point was made earlier that there's not a lot of traffic going in there um access to ball fields from the back side that's that's two lots no that's two lots over that's manusos this is really yeah my apologies so I'm sorry so the the the driveways that would access a left turnoff of woodport Road are the the the concerns are the driveways that are um closer to the intersection Than The Jug Handle so once you get I think if you look at the traffic report they analyze the entire intersection and based on that like they they determine the level of service and that's all listed like level of service is not Chang certainly right but you can't it's really not uh I don't think it's an Apples to Apples comparison of a gas station that existed 10 years or more ago than the existing circumstances I don't even know if that no left turn the no right on red situation was was in play at the time that the gas station station was open in other words there wasn't as much traffic so to say that there's not going to be an impact to the to the intersection it's a safety issue there's already there's already restrictions on a left turn and I'm saying anything closer than The Jug Handle to the intersection maybe should be considered that you can't make a leftand turn into the parking lot and to answer up that like I think when when this application is going to do they are the ones who going to review all that scenarios like the say the circulation the Turning movements and what is acceptable because they ultimately it's their jurisdiction I understand but ultimately it's Sparta's jurisdiction it's our residents that live here and the safety is in the hands of our our but unfortunately in this case like even though let's say we decide okay we make make it one way one way in one way out if do feel likees no this is not the safest way uh we have to comply with the do right so let me let me try interject you if I can so I think I think you've made your point right I'm done and I think you understand and I think you know there may be a difference but I want to make sure that you at least had the the connection with the question and and the answer yep that's all I wanted to say thank you thanks okay anybody else on the public have any questions okay so at this point if we can um maybe we just uh look for a date that works to um have a continuance of this thank you thank you very much thank you very much you appreciate everything so looking at the at the schedule let's see what we got here so I think we said the firehouse Apartments was going to be on the 19th is that what we said Mr yes I thought you were thinking of if this if this didn't finish that you were carrying it I you know best but thought you were thinking that this one didn't finish that you would carry them to January 15th is that correct or I I I was um based on depending how far we got I I I just sense it's going to be more discussion here and I think we're going to want to see some of the updated plans and give you time to consider what we said and see if you want to make any updates to do that how many more professionals do you have we just yeah so we thank you we just have our planner and then the uh the owner so we don't have and the own and the owner is going to testify just to the operations questions regarding the operations getting that cleaned up and put on the record uh planning testimony half hour maybe less depending upon the board's question so we don't have that much we will commit to getting uh revisions and comments that we received here from the board tonight back to the board prior to the January 15th meeting if if you would be inclined to uh to grant us that what's involved in the planners presentation so so let me throw this out so we can commit to trying to get you in in out on the 15th so the question is do you want to come back and see what happens or would you rather try to work on a date that we feel comfortable that you're going to be able to come back one more time and we can resolve this uh can I ask a question yeah so when you when we come back on if we were to come back on the 15th that we're at the end of the queue or we in the beginning of the queue um well 15th is a reorganization meeting that come first and then there's an open space plan that we were finishing and we need uh we think we think it's done but we need to open to the public and so and we've also committed to a new application so they're coming it's it's going to be packed on 15th I you know I'll I'll leave it to you I you know I really think your best shot of coming back one time would be to put it out to to February and even that you know I it sounds like we can do it I'm I'm really questioned if we could do that on the 15th or not no I appreciate the honesty um you heard him so so the risk that we run is we come back on the 15th we're all here you're paying us all to be here and the board's agenda doesn't permit us to get a the full application and come back a third time or just come back a second time one one final time in February if if it's February that it has to be I'm I'm okay with it I'm interest interest to get started and like everybody mentioned and uh everybody midle downtown I don't mind you testifying but I got to have you sworn to to say anything so please come to the mic I apologize uh please raise your right hand yes sir do you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth help you got I do and please state your name and address aam mu heis 306 shades of death Road gra Meadows New Jersey 07 07838 take your time but not too [Laughter] long we're anxious anxious to get started really are and I've heard it in many occasions where it's been vacant you want to make it look nice and anxious to get started and we're willing to work with a lot of the adjustments especially with the sign the lighting and everything we're open-minded as far as the brick is concerned as well I know we're taking too much time here it I know everybody wants to go home one example I want to give everybody was concerned about the shade of the brick and how we're going to incorporate the old with the new I have no problems we facing the whole place it's going to cost me an extra whatever to get this done quickly and efficiently I'm I'm I'm open-minded to everything and thank you for your time thank you thank you I think it's the board's advice not to come in on January 15th I again so I'll go back to say what I said before is that I really think that if if you're willing to come back more than once we could try we can try and fish in otherwise I no no I I would like to if if we can one and done and if I have to wait till Fe I'm openminded to that as well all right thank you for that could I throw one more Wrinkle in on that so that would be the February 19th well what's the one before 19th what's on the fifth so the fifth we've got rames uh we've got uh Sparta MMA oh no that's the 19th rames is the 19th hang on a second Firehouse Department did we say that that's going to be on the 19th I think it did yeah so the we could proably maybe we could do the fifth yeah okay let's let's go for the fifth if that works for you perfect good good thank you guys apprciate thank you thank you for your indulgences thank you for your time tonight thank you appreciate it well will there be up any updated drawings or anything kind of talking about no I was just speaking with Adon about that offline right now so any any any things that we uh discuss tonight revisions we would make a condition resubmit upon approval okay thank you Tom I really appreciate we'll just confirm for thank you we'll confirm for the record that the U uh yhk application is carried without additional notices uh to February 5th 2025 at 700 p.m. at this meeting room okay okay good good good back to the agenda so that brings us to Other Board business uh so I'll leave it to the board do you guys want to take a fem minute break you want to try to get through this want take a 5 10 minute break we're probably going to be here about let's do five minutes that' be good let's do that we'll shoot to get i h by 10:30 tonight unbelievable and folks uh Katherine brought us a gift brief summary of all the applications we took place over the years uh and just highlighted I've been privileged to come here for about 29 years thank you for that and uh bottom line is I just it's interesting I think sometimes to go back and look at all the work you did over the years and when I say all the work we did all the work you folks did so that was just basically a summary and to thank you for having us okay right we appreciate it thank you definitely appreciate it um Marisha there's a planning board application spreadsheet for 2024 um I don't know if does anybody have any questions on anything that you want to say on it Risha or um not really not really too much uh that I need to say I just updated um the last recent um application that was uh received from my office about maybe two weeks ago the green LLC I believe and um they it's still in the 45 day window review process okay and then um what was updated would uh approv for resolution for the Lake Mohawk Tennis Club so I want to thank you for that report because you know having that report sent to us gives us a heads up of what's coming down the road gives us a chance to look at it gives us the links to the documents as they come in so that's been a tremendous help at least to me in terms of being able to get a jump on reviewing the material which was a concern I had at the beginning of the year so thank you for doing that no problem okay um I've got a summary I'm going to hold off I'll do that as part of the update does anybody else have any uh any other board business you'd like to discuss yeah I just wanted to say a couple things uh now that we're heading toward the end of the year uh I want to thank everyone on the board for a great job this year big shout out to our Professionals for doing tremendous work uh especially raisha who I work with very closely on the miter sight plane committee uh for those that don't know that that office is is down two people so Risha is doing a tremendous amount of work and I just wanted to make sure that uh that recognition is is received thank you so much I appreciate the board for standing by me during this time helping me out while my supervisor is out um I'm very grateful you're doing a great job thank you very much much appreciate the other thing I wanted to mention just quickly was um you know I feel like everyone on the board um really appreciates public participation and the last few meetings there have been maybe one or two people in the public usually the same faces so I I for those listening at home or watching on the replay I do urge you to attend the meetings we meet every first and third uh Wednesday of the month I think it's an important uh work uh that we're all doing and public participation is a big is a big factor of that uh and then lastly I want to thank Janette for making these just cooking you're welcome can't wait to eat them all right anybody else okay with that let's get to our updates uh so Deputy Mayor blti Town Council yeah thank you chairman uh couple updates from the last council meeting which was December 10th which was the last meeting of this year uh few items one is we passed ordinance 24-21 which uh raises the water rates uh for the first time in 15 years actually since 2009 and the purpose really is for funds to uh properly maintain the water system the infrastructure and to uh raise funds for substantial Capital Improvements that are needed and this is going to help ensure reliability safety and comply with some of the federal and state regulations that uh of that are around and and new ones especially um so in 2025 just to give an example the increase is going to be about five about 5% and then it's going to be about 22% annually after that U and then on top of that there's going to be a um $80 a year ongoing water Capital Improvement fee uh so the average increase per quarter um you know in 2025 will be a little high but then after that it'll be you know $4 or $3 a quarter um average increase I just wanted to give everyone a little flavor a little update on what is happening there second uh resolution 9-9 passed which is related to the master plan actually and this is support for applying for a no cost technical assistance program to help us perform uh the climate change vulnerability assessment part of the master plan which is required and uh part of the application doesn't mean we're going to get it part of the application was that the council had to pass a resolution of support um so we talked about that at the council meeting and got that resolution passed so we'll see what happens and again it's work that would need to be done when we're updating the land use portion of the master plan anyway and it's still going to be done within the master plan work but it's uh assistance that' be provided on a technical basis and then just lastly affordable housing is on everyone's mind uh I announced at the council meeting that the council and the planning board and their professionals are um diligently working on analyses and strategies and we are planning and will adopt a resolution uh before the January 31st deadline then after that we'll then create a full you know housing element and fair share plan which is due by the end of June um so I just wanted to update everyone on the status that there's a lot of work happening in the background and Katherine is uh you know waist or shoulder deep in it so thank you that's all I have for tonight thanks quick question Dean um did they go over the uh budget how much uh money what was the what were they closing the year out with the budget and how much they going into 2025 no with regarding funds not yet not yet yeah that'll be come part of the January yeah the new conversations we're thinking about the next budget yeah thanks Mike thank you okay Miss dumbar uh environmental commission yes so um we met on uh December 12th and um uh we reviewed a correspondence for freshwater wetlands General permit and application for a flood Hazard Aira area and this is in um around an island in Lake Mohawk and we also provided the um the review of the pops Bagel which we all received that emphasized the need for plants and native plants um for our unfinished business um we um we discussed the open space um planning update and it was announced at that time that we do have the correct uh um finish draft the finished product is now posted yeah for everybody to to um hopefully come to the public hearing um and share their um Thoughts with us um we are interviewing people for a green team appointment um and our Sustainable New Jersey certification committee um has met once and we're going to be submitting our points towards bronze certification um I believe the deadline is February 23rd we our next presentation to the public will be I believe in February and it will be about lead in our water and the public and everybody is invited to attend that um we've started again this year a road salt Watch program and folks can uh register to participate um all you need to do is locate a a body of of water near you um that is downhill from where salting occurs basically and a sample before and after storms and what I am seeing with my first sample is um and this is Benchmark data is is that the salinity of surface water has doubled so salt doesn't go away folks it gets in the soil and then it gets in our well water so we need to know the trend you know so we can address it if it becomes uh a big issue which it looks like it is we're going to have an Earth Day celebration everyone and this is going to be on May um we're thinking May 3rd or 4th weekend right now um Earth Day is the 22nd but there's so many events going on in our community that we decided we'd push it towards better weather and we're looking for a venue for this um um the last one two years ago was out in front here um but we're now looking at maybe um either The Pavilion at Station Park or getting space at the middle school and then um I guess I guess this is that's all we're I think we're going to apply for um a grant um a PGE Grant uh $2,000 Grant um for one of our projects again so thank you thank you it Merry Christmas Christine just quick question with um the salt that you are um testing uh are you just doing it or can it's a whole you're looking for other people to do whole Statewide effort um we it's coordinated with the Watershed Institute and um we're focused on the five watersheds in Sparta and what we did last year is we started with a few sites and we're building a database to if there's Trends through time through the road salt so okay so you're looking at specific ones yeah you can choose whatever you know you can choose your Downstream Lake your down you know your stream that's at the end of of your street or or a downstream of a bridge that's salted because the bridges are heavily salted what are you measuring with so it's consistent oh I I'll give you all the information weing we have strips that you just get like an inch or less of water um you collect it um and then you put your test strip in and you wait 5 to 10 minutes and then what you do is is you have a chart you get your parts per million and what you you do is but I didn't know we're salt you just submit it on your phone to the Watershed Institute and they log it on a map of New Jersey and you can actually read each other's concentrations um throughout the season Co I'll talk to you more okay I'm gonna I'm going to do something a little different tonight I I think than we've done in the past um you know this is our last meeting of of the year and you know when I look at this team here um and the things that we accomplished as a team and when I say team it's everybody up here collectively our professionals we you know input we received from the public and I just want to summarize it because I'm not going go on for a long lot of time I'm going to try to do this in two or three minutes but there's a lot of good stuff that when we leave tonight I think this team should feel good that that we really made a difference you know and I so if you look at just the planning board itself you know we heard 18 applications this year um some some were car from last year um there's some that were submitted that we haven't heard yet but we've heard 18 and to do that we had to actually scheduled two additional meetings so that was that showed a really commitment to to getting this done um one of the things I think we should all really be proud of is is that we took steps to protect Sparta against potential future Mega Warehouse applications and the steps that we took in particular I'm to talk about is what we just did on pdm2 well we had a Zone there that was exposed for for larger buildings we put a Max size and we we put in the requirement for data so that should really help us in terms of protection against I'm going to put this in quote F future applications that's that's a big deal um we sub subed an ordinance that was passed by the Town Council making it easier for small business owners of instructed LED business classes to come into the various commercial zones again something that that that this board collectively changed another thing we should feel good about um terms of transparency we we we held Outreach uh meetings on the master plan the environmental commission's open space and Recreation plan plan endorsement and we had a discussion on can cannabis some of those discussions were not that comfortable but um I I think for the sake of of showing to the public we want everyone's comment we're trying to get everyone involved that would that would really show that that we're you know we put an acction behind the words um one of the things I that again we I I think we we helped with in terms of transparency was the um the zoning map again great work by the town professionals and and by Dave and and and and your your company um but you know that that we heard in the beginning of the year what we heard last year is someone just giving up to and we and we we made sure that those updates were provided and in the end I you know I think we may have helped drive it a little bit just by having those update schedules and lo behold we we've got a zoning map and that that's a big deal so thank you to everyone that that did that um I think our meetings I I I think you know I think we've we've Streamlight our meetings by better by better scheduling than where we started off we were just jam-packed and we're limiting what's coming to us you know we had those discussions tonight I think we removed items from the agenda that we felt were outside of our our purview so we're getting closer to getting to 10:30 toight probably not the night to say that but I think overall you I think we we're doing really well there so that's on the from the planning board and I'm going to move on to to the minite plan subcommittee um so um the minite plan subcommittee includes you know Christine dumbar John Ferman uh Bill Enright and and Marisha Franklin they reviewed over 50 site plan waiver applications this year that's a heck of a lot of data um so congratulations to them another thing that they've done is is you know the the time frame to get these site plan waivers through the process we just weren't getting the information that we needed so they designed a new site plan waiver application form which has successfully helped us to accomplish a much faster turnaround time I think now as as things come in we're turn around and week you you're not hearing the the same kind of complaints we're hearing in fact if you go back to a recent uh Town council meeting um John Drake who um is a um a consultant to help with that recognized the efforts that and and and the improvements that have been made so you a lot of lot of good stuff there and again with with with with Jen in the off in in the audience I want to recognize that there with a little bit of pushing we actually uh started publishing mon site plan subcommittee's uh minutes for for transparency so a lot of good stuff went on there and then I'm going to move on to the master plan subcommittee so you know the master plan subcommittee I think we made some really great strides in 2025 we held our initial kickoff meeting in February of 2024 and we've met 10 times since then um a lot of people on the subcomittee I'm not going to recognize everybody because it just maybe if it was like 10 o'clock I might do that but um but some of the things that that they've accomplished you know uh developed the community Hub website you know thank you to Katherine for that you know one of the things that was asked for at the beginning of the year and was put on the table is show me your plan show me your budget show me what you're going to do and then go do it so we put we put a stake in the ground that team has said this is what we're going to do and here's how we're going to do it so I think people from a transparency from a expectation perspective I think we've done done a lot there and then you know something I think everyone should be proud of is is the community survey over a thousand responses I don't think anybody saw that coming um and that those responses you know that wasn't one person or two people that was everybody in team saying how can we how can we look for ways to to to pull the public in so um just just a lot of good stuff and one thing I I I want to go back to um the the ordinance we talked about pm2 you know that work was actually started with um the ordinance subcommittee which is disbanded for Budget reasons but there's a lot of good work that went into that that led it to led to it being so easy when it came time and I want to recognize you know Bill enri Janette Burke and and Ernie re that for the support you did there as Wells is our professional support so when you look at all that stuff and you look at where we started this year I mean hopefully when we walk out of here tonight as a team we are all feeling good that you know we have made that that difference so my congratulations to everybody I'm not going to say thanks that you didn't do it for me you guys set your own goals and you accomplished it so congratulations everybody [Applause] I think but we can say a thank you for your leadership and you forgot we have minutes for we have planning board minutes now I was going to bring that up but we don't have a little behind we we've got a plan in place and I think you know once Dory gets healthy we should see them break loose real quick I think we've got some that are in in the loop just need that final review so you know next year we we should make some huge strides on turn them around much quicker and you know Mike I know you you had mentioned that as well from from so again great work by everybody you know congratulations and I Echo your your commitment to all of us in your leadership I think you've done a fantastic job this year I apologize you know I I want to recognize Bill because you know he has been tremendous and I don't recognize him enough in these meetings but you know a lot of back discussions behind the scenes meeting with me tolerating me um and we and we don't see ey eye all the time um which which I like um but uh again just so thank you for everything you've done as well as you know serving as as your Vice sherff has been a great learning experience and I think uh you're just you're you're perfect at this job so thank thank you for everything you've done work a all right that's it thank you I would I would like to cut that um cut in um besides you know you guys being amazing and you know helping me out especially as a new employee um with the township but um my professionals Catherine Dave and Tom been my rock seriously my rock and I don't know what id do without them so I'm so grateful for you guys um as well as our board members but you know I'm always emailing and calling in and I'm like I hate to be a bother but they've been really tremendously great with me so I thank you guys yeah thank you job everyone yes Mr any update on the M site plan subcommittee anything you want to add uh we met earlier this evening we have a couple of outstanding applications that we're looking to get some more information on uh I think you mentioned that we were over 50 applications this year um and we have a plan in place to do our best assuming that the information that we need comes in to um try to get them done before the new year okay anybody else have any updates that you'd like to offer okay so that gets us to uh the resolution we have one resolution tonight which is 2024 23 which was uh on the app ation uh planning board number 2 uh 24722 Lake Mohawk Tennis Club um I'm sure everyone's had a chance to read that um and I guess we have a limited number of people that can vote vote for that because of the attendance um Tom is there anything you you'd like to add to that or is it just I'm just going to go for a motion if you're ready it's a motion and the second and roll call just of the people who were involved in that case all right so let me just ask is anybody that was involved do you have any any questions on the on the resolution all right see none may have a a a motion I'll make a motion to approve a second okay and raia if you could do a roll call chairman Ronde yes Vice chairman Bill inright yes Joan Ferman yes Janette Bert yes Christine dumbar yes all right the motion has passed thank you all right so that gets us now to um the public session which I don't see on here but we're not on the back on the back so why don't we do that first um no what's that okay um let's go to Executive session um for um attorney client privilege Communications um so may I have a motion to go back into executive session make a motion may have a second a second roll call please Deputy Mayor Dean bledy yes Janette Bert yes Christine dumbar yes Vice chairman Bill inite yes Joan fman yes Justin Canales yes Celeste Luciano Ernie rat yes Mike Sylvester Brian Zimmerman chairman Ronde yes all right the motion is passed we'll go back into executive session um I wouldn't expect this to we'll try to shorten this up and and get you back in here Jenny I don't believe so but I just it just I won't know till till we get through it I I don't expect expect it to be what's that I don't know we can give you a call but should this should be also with just I think the communication would be more open without Professionals in the room all right well let's let's let's let's start it first and then we can then we can do that because I think there's a couple things we wanted to talk about here um so let's let's go back in executive session first thank you Jenny Ro tapped in she's here okay thank you Justin thank you Jenny we just want to wish you Merry Christmas so Jen we're trying to understand so when you said you were good from a public comment perspective or that you were willing to wait till we finish the executive session I don't have a comment okay compliment okay so um let me just say that on behalf of everybody I'd like to wish everybody a very happy holiday uh our next meeting will be scheduled for January 15th we're going to hold the reorganization meeting um here a couple applications open space we're going to try think we try to fit that in and as well as our regular topic so uh unless anybody has anything that you'd like to bring up would anybody like to make a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion second second all in favor say I I all opposed say no seeing is none we are adjourned it is now 1037 thank you everybody safe Christmas everyone make the motion toj oh boy for