fair enough fair enough charge we are live good evening on behalf of the members of the planning board and our professionals I would like to welcome you to tonight's meeting of the sparta Township planning board this meeting is
being held on April 2nd 20125 at spida Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street spida proceedings of the meetings are being live streamed on YouTube at www.youtube.com spart WP the time is now
7:05 and this meeting is pulled order please note that no new business will be conducted after 9:30 pm and the meeting will end at 10: please stand and join the board as we proudly our nation conratulations the United States of America to the for
which stands one nation under indivisible andice may we have a roll call please Janette B here here Brian Z Ron day here chairwoman Joan Ferman here councilman
Mark Scott yes Robert Bley here Vice chairman Robert Otto here heree D here thank you the first item on the agenda is the approval of the March 19th 2025 minutes um I just like everybody to
have a chance to take a look at them they're in your packets because there were some changes uh earlier or later this this afternoon gu because the minutes are long I'll call your attention to some of the changes um not the minor ones but um
there were a couple changes for pb7 13 Ram is and Company on the third page so if you would just maybe Focus there and make sure everything uh meets with your approval e guess if you're done look up and then we'll know we can move on if not we'll
just we'll wait till you're ready is everybody ready is there a motion to approve the um March 19th minutes as amended I make the motion is there second I'll second it roll call
please yes Ernie R yes Ron yes chairwoman Jo Ferman yes councilman Mark Scott yes Robert Bley yes Vice chairman Robert UT yes yes okay we're moving on to the public portion of the hearing um the first
application on our agenda pb2 24- 724 Firehouse Apartments llc at 23 Westshore Trail um requested an additional continuance so they're not here today um
I don't know if anybody in the audience came to hear them uh but they did ask to postpone and have the time here yes I had them B you had made time for this app today it was
carried from uh February of 2025 the applicant has agreed to move to your next meeting date uh however you have kind of a full agenda on that day uh so we could say to the board I'm sorry to
the applicant that their request for extension uh has been granted to your first meeting date in May or in the alternative if they said no uh respectfully you would have to make a determination you made their time tonight they are not prepared uh tonight
so therefore uh it's not like they're entitled to an automatic uh approval because they've requested so your extension of time on their request would be to uh May unless you think you can squeeze them in on the
19th K Ken am I correct that this is the application that we were notified like four hours before last the last time that we had them reserved on the on the on the schedule okay so I mean this
is I don't know if we're playing games here or not but this is obviously we have a very tight schedule here and to be and to suddenly now have have this Gap here twice we could have heard other applicants enough is enough right
right you look you have the the board you're scheduling you have a timeline on the mpal aners ACT the the ACT uh dory's done an excellent job of keeping you at rized of that today was the day so in my legal opinion they've asked for the uh
extension if uh the board would Grant the extension to your May meeting do you want them to give new notice uh nothing has really changed there's no one in the audience here has come forward but this has carried since February so that is
your decision if you want to uh Grant an extension and uh uh determine whether you want that extension to be to uh the 19th of April or to May or your alternative would be that uh you were prepared to have it and their extension
is uh denied and they'd have to give new notice uh at uh whenever they're prepared to move forward yes 16 16 16 16th or May 7th 7th I have a question
though um when they submitted this application there was nothing in there about affordable housing they subsequently added that would that be something that should be noticed in which case should we be requiring them
to re notice indicating that affordable housing is a component of that so that the public is aare of it but there's no variance if it's I don't know what the I apologize what the fair housing requirement is that they're
requesting uh so as as far as I don't believe it's a new lens variance um so I apologize I'm not really comfortable in saying that is a new notice or isn't a new notice uh I could take a look at that before the
next heing does that have any parking locations in other words the affordable housing could knock down their number of parking spaces they have a parking issue I don't David anything on that or linday on parking related to fair housing on
the on the fir housee I as the chair lady indicated when it first came in that really wasn't discussed in extreme so as far as the exact number I don't have anything on that at this
moment so if the board is uh before you is whether to Grant the extension or quite frankly deny the extension and ask them to give new notice whatever the board Dees problemer so if we ask them to give new
notice that means they have to put a little bit more skin in the game and they might be more attentive to actually showing up when they say they I can't speak to they did not grant us till May um they said they want to be
heard at the next meeting April 16th so legally how do we proceed with that can we just say we want to hear them in May well if if you you have before you an application again you have timelines under the minan ACT if you are
not granting their extension I would uh say for the record we should put on that you're not granted the extension and that we were denying it for the reasons and set forth on the reasons but in good faith uh they are it would not the rest
judicata that they they have a denial as to the substan of application that they could file uh for let's say the May meeting with new notice okay they wouldn't have to go through another completeness they could go through the may may meeting with new
notes but that would allow our professionals to look at the affordable housing component of it which previously was not in their reports it would give you time do is that a Motion sounds like a motion we use that
sure I'll make that motion right so the record is clear the applicant has uh requested uh an extension of time uh the extension of time is being technically
uh denied but however not on the substantive of arrest judicata the merits of the case you are uh denying the request for an extension without notice that if the applicant wishes to go at your May meeting uh with new
notice that would be permissible but you are not carrying uh you are you're carrying the completeness of the application that they can go to May but you are not carrying the uh application uh that they don't have to give new
notice I'm sorry is that is that correct though if we're going to add in the affordable housing comp we're not we're not we can't say it's complete now right well if I think the application's already been deemed compl by it was on your agenda here I think it gives you
reason to say you have to give new notice and give the application your professionals and opportunity to review it uh further again I don't want you to caught in a situation where you have an automatic approval because the uh uh
board did not act you are taking a formal action uh tonight and uh denying the request for extension to your April meeting but you are permitting the application to be carried to the May meeting with new notice I mean can I can
I ask one question Mr far yes so the only concern I have um if I can't talk about this just stop me is along the lines if if if it is affordable housing I believe under the waiver there wasn't a site plan submitted if they go with the affordable housing the 18.85%
okay uh if we look at the application and uh uh Dory our office and the engineer and planner find that it is not in compliance okay uh it is not our obligation to uh do the the job of the
applicant uh if the applicant did not comply with ordinances that are there uh and uh that is an an amendment to the plan the ordinance would trigger so maybe my use of the completeness was incorrect uh but for the record the
applicant if they comply with the fair housing requirements and the ordinance is that this board would hear the application in May if the uh applicant is uh not utilizing a fair housing
aspect uh that they should so advises okay it's their burden thank you can I just add one more thing to to that um with the Prof professionals when you look at this again does that trigger a change in use and would this be our jurisdiction or would it be a zoning board
issue we can look at that also so we can I think we need to look at that so based on all of the questions at this point we are having a motion for a new notice and and compliance uh and
Confirmation uh of compliance with your fair housing uh regulations okay somebody make a motion to approve that seconded right so the record is clear this is uh a motion that the
applicant needs to confirm their fair housing requirement uh that the uh request for extension uh to April has been denied for the reasons that we just said uh but the board would accept them
on your May meeting if they are deemed complete based upon the fair housing no we don't have a meeting April 3 May 7th 7 so it could be heard on May 7th assuming compliance with your ordinances
and regulations uh with new notice and in the alternative uh I know it's harsh but the record would reflect that the uh request for extension uh in April has been denied that would be the
motion okay so let's go again with that motion to approve second I'll second he roll call please Robert Blakeley yes n Burke yes Ronde yes Celeste Luciano yes
Ernie R yes Council Mark Scott yes Christine dunar yes Vice chairman Robert AO yes andair John fman yes thank you we'd like to welcome um planning board number 25- 728 Stop and
Shop good evening can everyone hear me yes my name is Howard Jenis from the law firm Gibbons PC representing the applicant the Stop and Shop supermarket company LLC I I didn't get your name I'm sorry Howard Jenis law so if if I may I'll give a brief
overview of what's proposed this is really a very straightforward application this involves the property at Five Town Center Drive and 60 and 56 Main Street of course it's right across the street from where we're sitting tonight block 5020 Lots 1 six and 7 and
the Town Center limited commercial District Stop and Shop has operated a supermarket at this location since 2011 the store is just now completing a renovation which is part of stop and Shop's program of modernizing and
renovating its existing stores and as part of that renovation it seeks to update its signage uh to reflect the company's current branding program uh you may have seen these signs on some other stores the red light green light
configuration uh which replaces the fruit bowl that's currently on the store here in Sparta so the purpose of tonight's application is to remove the existing wall and Monument signage and to replace it in kind with new signs
that are in all but one instance either the same size or smaller or fewer in number um and the one exception we'll we'll talk about uh in a minute in our testimony the existing signs that are out there today or their predecessors
did receive variances from this board back in 2006 although it's not entirely clear from the records precisely what relief was granted and so we've therefore applied for variances wherever what we're proposing does not meet with the current sign regulations although in
our materials we've we've detailed very specifically um how the proposed signs compare with the existing and as I noted in almost all cases it's either the same or it's a reduction uh there are no changes as far as the parking lot the Landscaping the
building footprint this is just about sign so it's really quite straightforward the application or the approvals I should say that we're seeking tonight are a minor site plan approval and then a series of variances which our planner will discuss in more
detail but just to generally categorize them they pertain to wall sign area height and width to Monument sign area for one of the monument signs for number of colors or sign construction using
non-natural materials which is what's out there today and for not having a comprehensive signage plan for the entire Center again which is the same as what's out there today so that's the basic overview I have uh two witnesses that I proposed to
call to tonight one is a sign company representative who will present the sign package and I can answer any questions about the signs themselves and then the second witness is our professional planner who will provide planning testimony and support of the SE variances that are
requested if there's any questions for me I'd be happy to address those otherwise I would proceed to call the first witness anybody have any questions you may call your first witness okay thank you then I call up Christina Morrow from egol sign
company while she's getting set up it seems like there's a big echo in here is that based on the way he's working on it okay is there any other way I should adjust this to reduce it or I think it's your it's not me it's all of us it's never happened before so I don't know
let's try this one instead okay push this how's that oh yeah much okay okay so first we need to swear in Miss Morrow and qualify her and then we'll be presenting these exhibits um most of the exhibits we're
presenting are actually just larger versions of what was submitted basically blown up do you want us to Mark those as exhibits if they're identical just larger whever you want to he show state your name and business address for
the can use the mic chrisa Christina moral agnoli Sign Company 722 Worthington Street in Springfield Mass would you spell your last name please spell your last name please m o r e
auu thank you okay so what I'd like to ask you to do first is if you could please give the board your experience your qualifications your employer and your relationship to the project well believe it or not I've been at egol sign company for 48
years started when I was very young um I've been doing this permitting for the last 25 years at least and I did the permitting back when they changed the store the first time and the second time and this is my third
time here so so you've been doing the sign permiting for this store since it opened is that correct well not the first one because the first one was done by um somebody who did the variance and I'm not sure who did that that's why I didn't have the paperwork on it so
that's why we're here because we didn't have the backup paperwork for that was done by an engineering company and I'm not sure it was somebody for the the landlord so I offer Miss Mo as a sign expert um 48 years is tough to
beat but I'm not sure whether expertise needed or not but obviously spend in this stre 48 years and I'm sure her testimony will help the board so I would accept her as a sign thank so basically stop and Shop's
done this at about 2 50 of their stores so they're taking the fruit bowl down uh this is a 4 foot set of letters currently we're replacing it with a 3 foot three set of letters two circles and taking off the
basket it equals the same square footage as the existing one at 3 foot three because this is a capital letter and this is a lower upper and lower case so we matched what was there uh we're removing the two welcome signs nothing's
being replaced there there and the pharmacy does no longer have the Stop and Shop on top of it it just has the word Pharmacy uh citizens will remain exactly like it was before and citizens is their
own uh place inside of the store um but just for the record just for the record as Council has said uh rather than Mark can you just make reference to maybe Council you could help on uh what
refering to just for the citizens is not on this I think it's Provident the store anymore huh they're not in the store anymore hold on the wrong one I'm doing two of these
currently the drawing that is being testified to is identical to page a which was submitted as part of the application materials and that is a facade rendering of the existing and of the
proposed so it's just the pharmacy and the Stop and Shop there's nothing else in the store okay and you're looking at the uh the aerial as Council had just said uh on boards by your company and it's uh store
0823 yep thrs order number zero just give us the uh the date that I think it's the last revision G the last revision datee is 126 12 1210
1210 24 yes okay good 121 good Y and that is again identical to what was submitted to the board previously it's enlarged and placed on a board for display purposes you removing two trees before we move off that exhibit could I ask you
to just identify the um the one Varan or the sign to mention that increases slightly that I mentioned earlier on the length of the sign could you just point that out please and what the difference is between the two the original length
of this sign is 31 foot the new length of the sign is 32 10 in said before it's because those were capitals these were upper and lowercase and this is capital now but the actual
height of the letter is only 3 foot three now whereas it was 4 foot before and that was Capital 4 foot are two trees being removed or is that just a drafting error no no trees are being removed that
was just so you could see the signage that remains exactly like it is there's there's no changes to the existing Landscaping but good catch I didn't see that myself actually so that that's so that you can get a good visual I grew up on Highlights pictures
okay so why don't we move on to the monument signs okay do you want me to this this is the Halo part so this we need to mark this was not submitted to the board previously so let's mark that as A1 and today's date which is what
April 2nd yes it's p lit exactly like it is today today the sign is lit from the back when we put the new sign on it will be lit the same way from the back just
to reference this exhibit this is a sign Halo picture from a different store just to show you what the illumination looks like and it is prepared by agnoli sign company and it has a date of September 13
2024 and the the purpose of this exhibit is simply to show that the signage complies with the illumination requirements in the code okay number one all we doing is replacing the face that's in the sign currently we're not
touching the bottom we're not touching anything else we're just simply taking the lexon piece of face out putting a new one but actually this is metal because it's not lit it's lit from the ground let's reference L at all this exhibit exhibit this is exhibit Monument
one with a last revision of December 6 2024 and again this is just an enlarged version of what was submitted with the application Monument number one which is the monument sign on Route 517 Monument sign number two same thing
identify this exhibit but also this is um Monument number two which has a final revision date of December 6th 2024 and this is the um
sign let's see this is which one is this I want to make sure I'm referring to the correct sign here this is the one at the entrance to the Stop and Shop parking lot from Town Center Drive and again it's simply an enlarged version of what was previously submitted to the board
merely a face change nothing else what would you call that sign that's not a monument sign that's a it is a mon Monument yep okay it's Monument sign I mean I wish our Our Town had that kind of signage throughout
it nice got a new master coming maybe that sign okay let's reference this exhibit this is Monument number three he taking my shirt off revision date December 6
2024 this is the monument sign at the Main Street intersection with Town Center Drive and again this is simply an enlarged version of what was submitted with the application face change only
simply cop copy change just to the new local and of the the three Monument signs only the first one 57 is non-conforming as to area and again we're simply swapping out the panel for one of the same size monuments number two and number three conform with
the sign area requirements in the code so that is basically the overview of what's proposed in terms of signs our planner will be giving more detailed custon
variances that those signs require um but we' be happy to take any questions okay we'll start with our professionals if they have any questions regarding the signage okay uh Madam chair and board members I did prepare a report for the
record dated February 13 2025 and just going over to page two with regards to the latest revisions that were referred to in the presentation I agree with the latest revision dates as outlined in my report on item two
2B um I went through several items that really aren't applicable because we're just dealing with the sign each here in this particular application everything from Storm drainage lighting architectural plans landscaping and utilities nothing's changing or affecting anything else on the site that
I'm aware of um with regards to the proposed signage um I'll just note the variances that I had just so it's on the record and the board attorney can verify when he if the board acts favorably so they can make sure we catch everything
uh the variances that I identified maximum size of any indivi individual wall wall sign 24 Square ft you've got 175 square ft for the Stop and Shop and the logo and you've got 34.6 Square ft
for the pharmacy sign those were variances then with regards to maximum sign height uh the limit is 10% of the wall area or 2 feet whichever is less and in this case uh the sign for the stoppage shop plus the logo is 5'4 in
that exceeds the 2 feet and the pharmacy is 2 foot 7 and 58 in that exceeds the 2 feet so that's a variance with regards to maximum sign width uh it's limited to 50% of the wall width or 12 feet whichever is less uh in this particular
case again the Stop and Shop plus the logo which is the main sign on the front of the building is 32 ft 10 in and the pharmacy is 13t 2 in which again are variances U maximum sign area for the building greater than 30,000 square fet
again the maximum allowed is 32 square feet and in this particular case the monument sign number one as Mr jennis law pointed out was 49 square feet so that requires a variance Monument signs number two and three are less than the
32 Square fet so they're in conformance uh maximum number of colors in the ordinance it's limited to three they're proposing four so that was a variance uh the existing signage four colors
also it's seven seven colors it's how many seven so you decreased the number of colors just a variance but just so the board's aware of that um maximum number of typ faces three is allowed they're down to two so that
conforms uh with regards to materials constructed from natural materials no they're not natural materials they're man-made plastic or whatever right okay uh just so it's clear for illumination the township ordinance prohibits
internally lit box signs but these aren't box signs they're Halo lit Channel letters corre so just so that's clear on the record what they're proposing as far as that goes the individual letters aren illuminated internally by each letter and with regards to the
comprehensive signage plan and by the Township's ordinance the sign should be similar in size materials colors and lettering where the buildings are developed together and require different signs that's not the case here and if you recall a couple months ago you had
the change in signage from uh over to Provident Bank uh so they've got their own signage package and they got approval for the board for their upgrade but it's not uniform throughout the entire development if you will um I did
point or want to point out as the applicants witness did they are taking the welcome signs down so they're being eliminated so the number of signs become less um they will have room for three additional signs uh for other tenants below the Stop and Shop in the pharmacy
signs on Monument sign number one and the other thing I just wanted to point out was on Monument signs number one and number three they'll still have the text quote unquote STC Sparta Town Center on the top of the signs uh that was not
included in the monument sign area that is reported here in the plans but it's existing now and they're basically proposing to keep that the same as I understand it uh with regards to anything miscellaneous the other thing I wanted to point out on item number 12 uh
there wasn't as has built plan quote unquote submitted to help give everyone some perspective as far as the overall site and where the different signage is located I just want to make it clear though that it does not necessarily represent the current as built
conditions of the development and for example Monument sign number three isn't shown on the asil plan and the existing buildings that were shown fronting on Main stre have since been raised from that property it's vacant right now and the reason I bring that up is because
the two Newton water transmission Mains run along the northeasterly side of town center drive and that's been relocated just to name a few items I didn't want anybody to in the future grab that plan for another application to think well that's what we have because that's not
it especially when you're dealing with transmission Mains and everything else and other than that the only other approval I'd recommend if the board wanted to act favorably on the application obviously anything would be subject to permits from the count uh excuse me from the township Construction
official's office and that's my report Madam chair thank you and just to clarify there are no new variances correct these are all exting variances uh let me double check that there are new variances from the
standpoint uh that there's still variance for example the maximum number of colors but the new variance is less than what is existing out there right now which I believe they said was seven so it's less of a variance deviation
okay but nothing new correct the only thing that that I may that increases in existing non-conformity is that one um change in WID based on the capital letters that we mentioned earlier all the other variances exist and are either the same or reduction that's the one
that exists too but it's a slight increase in the non-conformity thank you David what was the second condition you had the first one was the as Bill uh other local government appr uh that would be the township construction official for
permits for the billing department Council as far as if the board was that favorably in put condition an as buil plan for the entire site including signage would that be accepted well I thought what Mr Simmons was saying was that he just wanted to
make everyone aware that the as belt was not current which in my discussions with him prior to filing we had requested the ability to submit that because that's what had been accepted I believe for The Provident Bank rebranding and given the minor nature of the application and the
fact that there are no site changes it seemed like it was a pretty significant expense to prepare an as built for an application like this so we would respectfully request to to not need to prepare an as built as part of this and and to receive a waiver to the extent
what is needed does the board understand that so if you were to go to the building department now the current plan that's on file it's not reflective uh I think David even said one of the buildings
been removed so uh the applicant is before you if you wanted a new as built that is a cost to the applicant and they're here for signage so it's up to you whether or not you want that requirement uh they're asking for a
waiver if that would required I'm sure there's no uh objection to any other permits or approvals that necessary no objection to those no well that's uh for a later discussion or you can discuss it i' like to discuss
it I just have a quick question so all of the variances were permitted in the past were we see the V on on your report Mr Simmons and you were able to locate
those variances that were passed no those are new proposed no this the the items that I marked as a V for variance were based on the dimensions that were provided as part of this application and I think what the board is being asked to rely upon tonight and counselor can
correct me if I'm wrong is the fact that U as he indicated the signage with the exception of the one sign are either equal to the variances that were presumably granted gred in the past or something less so but they weren't able
to Define through the records that they were in fact granted to that extent so in fact they're basically asking for them tonight just to make the record clear so this is a presumption that we're we're acting on but that does not
follow our ordinances is that correct well I I believe it's basically since the applicant from the sign company or the witness rather from the sign company did in fact do the last presentation she could probably verify that the dimensions were from what you had
before and if correct we replaced last time we replaced them in 2012 we did not get a variance we replaced what was there originally for the same sizes same number same colors everything and we
didn't get a variance back then in 2012 because we had one originally but nobody can find the original variants well let me round that out a little bit when I first got involved I had the same question what was previously approved so that we can see if we're within that or
if what we're proposing is something different so I filed public records requests with the township got copies of all the prior approvals for this Center going back to 2006 and in the 2006 resolution it basically says that the planning board
grants variances as reflected in the signed subcommittee's report dated January something or other 2006 I believe so when you then go and look at the sign subcommittee's report you know it it it's not sufficiently specific to
determine exactly what relief was granted for example it says for example it says the um the lettering is too big reduce it to 4 foot lettering and that's what was done but it doesn't address well what was the
length of the sign going to be and how closely did that conform with code so what was ultimately installed is consistent with what was referenced in that memo and was granted in 2006 but the memo just doesn't explain with
sufficient detail to be able to identify with Precision exactly what relief was granted so in our submission to the board we basically looked at what the code currently requires flagged everything that was a variance and we
compared it to what's there today and so you know I think that the variances for a lot of what we're asking for were previously granted but unfortunately because resolution was not precisely drafted I can't point to a specific line
and say you know this sign was approved at this specific square footage for example so sort of a convoluted answer to your question but it's I think pretty clear that all these variances were previously approved it's just that they weren't detailed clearly enough in the
resolution but for Mr for will do a much better job this go around so 10 years from now we won't be having the same discussion so we actually are granting variances that we have no proof that were
granted well I mean the signs are there right they clearly got signed permits from the construction department so and the code hasn't changed since 2006 in any material respect that I could identify so you know unless the sign permits were issued without authorization which I can't imagine
would be the case you know I think all indicators are that the variances were granted it's just they were not spelled out in as much detail in the resolution as would be the common practice today I have a little bit of a problem with that because it's actually going
against ordinances that we have now but I I respect your your explanation and and kind of understand what probably happened and then um the other question I have is how often is there a designed marketing
chain you would know this because you've been in the business for 48 years right so does this happen because look at look at what has happened yeah every 12 to 15 years okay curious in 2012 yeah thank thank
you just in regard to the um the site plan um so we don't have an as build right now um I think based on the discussions we're having I think this this would be a good opportunity to kind of lock everything in so we know
what it is that we're looking at I'd really like to see a site plan if if that's at all possible well you have an as buil it's just not an upto-date as build and the reason did is because that's what the board accepted some months ago for Provident when they came in for their
signage rebranding so we tried to follow that model and submit the same things so that was why we submitted what we did you know it's a fairly significant expense to do an as built for a large shopping center like this when nothing is changing so I mean if it's something
that PO believes is important we can provide it but it's a significant expense and it's something that the next applicant when they're making a physical change would need to provide so that might be a better time in order to to provide it in case there's anything
that's changed in the future before something more significant comes in I think my question along those Lin Mr Simmons what isn't correct on the as built doesn't have anything to do with the Stop and Shop area proper or the
bank proper right it's it's the the front property and the driveway right or the or the uh Town Center Drive uh basically uh what I mentioned was uh there used to be if you'll recall some offices or homes right along Main Street
and those were raised and tore down and they're shown on the plan but they physically don't exist and as I'm looking at the uh sheet 10 of1 of the ASU on that particular piece of property is showed the two Newton water
transmission Mains basically going diagonally across those Lots now when the applicant was here for the overall shopping center at that time they basically said well we're going to take those two buildings down or three whatever it was on those lots and
someday we'll probably come back in with a site plan to develop on those lots so since they had to do some relocation of the two Newton water transmission Mains where it went under Town Center Drive because of the grading we said since
you're going to have to do that work why don't you in fact reroute those two water transmission Mains around the side of North excuse me Town Center Drive and then around the side of Main Street so that you Avail yourself of the full
capability to develop those two lots in the future without having to relocate the transmission Mains again which is what they did so while the plan from omelet engineering at the time showed the two transmission Lin going diagonally across those lots in fact
they basically go along the right of way now so so what I'm hearing is it would probably be necessary for an as built to be required of someone that builds on that lot yes yes definitely and that's that's that's where I was going when I mentioned this point if someone was
going to come in and research the materials in the planning department and look for maps to start their research and start the development of their plans to develop that site I wouldn't want them to pick up this drawing and say that's what we've got because that's not what they have there now can we flag
that drawing I I'm thinking out loud um one one suggestion I have is that when when the board attorney if the board acts favorably references my report then in
fact if he finds it uh a good suggestion specifically highlight that particular comment so that someone in the future would be drawn to that comment and realize that this drawing is for purposes of just identifying on a regional basis the signs that we're
talking about but not necessarily to be used for as built we could put that in the resolution itself if Mr poro is okay with that that's a good idea that that would work and I I would also note it has a revision date in 2013 so anyone looking at it would realize that they
would need to verify whether anything has changed since then so I think I think that suggestion would work very well I agree would Newton have had to get an update on the site with when they put in
the water transmission Mains uh I'm doing this from memory so bear with me but when the two water transmission Mains were run across that property um a lot of that land back there was farm at
the time so I looked up some of the Deeds when we were reviewing the overall site plan and some of those deed of easements go back to when the water system was first done around 1895 or so
now in order to relocate the two water transmission Mains the way I just described um Sanford Hollander in Newton was the town attorney for Newton at the time and I worked with him and the township asparta and they came up with
what they call a restated easement which basically had attachments to it with new meets and Bounds description of the new easeman area plus it had different uh plates that showed the map of the
location of the revised easement and in fact that information is filed in the Sussex County Clerk's Office in Newton New Jersey so one thing that again if Mr poro is okay okay with it uh we could reference and I could get it for him at
a later date I could get the book and page of that restated and repurposed easement so it could be referenced in so again someone looking to develop on that land if they read that resolution if I was them I'd be looking up that book and page and all the information in it to
get you get them a clearer picture because that relocated two transmission Mains for example is shown on those Maps but presumably Newton would probably send their lawyer to make sure that development in the region of those transmission Mains wouldn't occur
without their say so I would think so it's the main artery for water to the town if you can get that for me that'd be helpful thank I can no problem how's that I was not there in 1895 we kind of got a little off Jack
here I want to get back to Lindsay though to give her um important question yeah David got a lot of mine um but um so just two things that are noted within the code that I think should just be put on the record um within the Township
Code uh the area surrounding the freestanding sign shall be kept neat clean and Landscape the tenant owner or occupant to which the sign applies shall be responsible for maintaining the condition of the areas um upon site inspection it was clean when I went and saw it everything's landscaped you can
see in the images as well we would just expect that that continue um and the second piece is all signs shall be kept in good repair which shall um include replacement or repair broken structural elements casings or faces and the maintenance of legibility all lighting elements shall be kept working
so um kind of same Condition it's within the code we would expect um expect it to be maintained as it is maintained currently the applicant acknowledges those code requirements and complying with
them thank you a very quick question um monuments one and two on the pictures don't show any flowers like Monument two so one and three don't have flowers but Monument
two does is there reason for that so there should there there will be flowers there should be for some kind of Shrubbery okay okay thank you something like box I think one of them is boxwood so they
would be there in the winter as well so maybe we'll condition it that could be landcap yeah yeah that onebody have any other questions do you do this every 12 to 15
years because I had two calls from people this week that said they can't find the cereal or the cake mix or the I couldn't find the Tulips they told that's the interior store not that's interior exactly we'll have
to work through that on our own I guess very nice looking yes thank you it is but it's a challenge when you know where something is you can't find for the had a question on the lighting uh
when are the Halo the illuminated signs are those operating 247 generally only operate the St hours and uh do you happen to know the color temperature is it it looks like a 5,000
from very light I mean it's I mean this picture that I had is probably somebody took it really close when you're far back you can barely see the on this store set back from the
street is there any possibility to get like 3,000 Kelvin a little warmer light that would be my only ask just because it'll illuminate the same but it'll be a little bit less harsh tiny little bu and there's only
one set of them in there not even I had one additional question question and this is something we spoke about before the meeting um at 60 60 Sparta Avenue is where the old Grand
Union used to be and Stop and Shop many many years ago purchased the assets of of Grand Union and when you moved from you moved the Grand Union to the new existing Stop and Shop over
on the the subject property that we're talking about you retained the Grand Union uh so that there would be no competition there would be no food sale
competition for you um so you own 60 Sparta Avenue and right now the tenant there is Ocean State joblot and if you look at the signage there it's nowhere near as nice as this signage it's it's
old it's it's rusted it's not painted it's it's faded and it's and it's it's in the center of our town and uh I've spoken to several members of the board and we would like it if you could
as you agreed to look into it and see if there's some way in which I mean it's a trip net Le I'm sure you're probably in charge of uh uh the facility and um see if there's some way that you could improve this sign to make it as nice as
the as these beautiful Monument signs that you have here so we did talk briefly before the meeting this was something that we were not aware of before tonight so what I can tell you is that um we're certainly happy to try and work with the board and
with the town to address that certainly there's the lease um OD job the current tenant presumably has rights in that sign so you know we can certainly try and address it you know with things like painting for example um you know any material changes
to the Sign May well require our jobs consent we may not have the right to do that so we'll need to take a look at the lease and see exactly what rights we have versus what rights they have but we're you know happy to try and work with the board and with the town to address that concern could you get back
to us one of us uh you get back to me or or to the uh I don't know who who who they would get back to but um and just or the board secretary and just tell us what's going on there and and if you do have the rights and the ability to help us out there I mean you
are a very good neighbor and we just want that to continue thank you just just let us know who the contact person is you know I don't know all the history about how they came to own the property and the current tenant so I can't speak to any of that but um we understand the concern and we'll we'll look to try and
address it okay thank you very much maybe attorney to attorney if you're doing it um but it goes along the lines of what our planner was suggesting earlier about the upkeep and the maintenance of the the different signs and that is important in town and when you have something that's rusted um you
know they may want let them keep their logo but maybe it needs a new um host or something that yeah so is that is that just something for zoning or yeah the sign is kept in good repair including replacement or
repair of broken structural elements so maybe we could we need to follow up on that we'll take maybe we'll take a look at that ordinance as well are you finished yeah I'm done okay I'm good okay um I guess we're if everybody's done we're ready for the next witness I've got one one question
um first of all I want to say thank you for the package the package had a lot of detail someone put a lot of thought and put in together and so it made the review uh very easy for us so thank you for that thank you the the the thing that I I just wanted to to make sure that we're clear on and the one exhibit that you added tonight helped me
is all of the building signs will be back lit Halo no front lit letters and that includes the pharmacy sign as well okay thank you and the 3,000 K that's just I mean lighting is cheap nowadays right with the LEDs so that
should be a simple I mean I'd say 2700 but typically 3,000 4,000 5,000 your options I think 3,000 would just be good if we're okay last call otherwise I'll bring up my next witness okay next witness please okay
thank you our next and Final witness will be Sean morony from Langan engineering who was our professional planner nothing but the CH up got I do I name and spell your last name and your professional address Sean
San morony M N Ski I'm with Langan engineering and environmental services 300 Kimble Drive Paran New Jersey coun if I could uh uh Sean I've known you for many years you hold your professional planner's license and good standing yes
it is and you've been qualified as an expert per numerous boards throughout state New Jersey yes i' recommend you accept as an exp profession accept it thank you that's better okay um so uh to prepare uh for
My [Music] Testimony turn is that tall the that one on that might be why you're getting feedback a
few okay good let's try this again okay in order to prepare um for my planning testimony um worked with my client uh reviewed the application the sign plans visited the site in the surrounding area reviewed the relevant
sections of your zoning ordinance and your master plan um Mr Simmons went through the variances that we are requesting and they are exactly as he listed in his memorandum um also for reference um Miss
Knight's uh referendum in addition to listing the same variances also showed um the existing conditions which she lists in her table as previously approved show it's so it shows a good what we have now of versus what's being
proposed and I do believe that the variances can be requested under the C2 criteria where the benefits of the overall application outweigh um any detriments of which I don't believe there are any for many of the reasons that have already been discussed the
changes that are being proposed here are di Minimus and I believe are just part of the overall plan uh to refresh uh the store's exterior and sign Ag and um as Miss Maro noted about um every 12 to 15
years um the stores need uh to refresh uh refresh their brand so I'm going to start um with the wall signs which um those signs are for Stop and Shop and the pharmacy as was noted we are removing the welcome signs
and the wall sign variances have to do with the maximum letter height the maximum sign width and the maximum sign area area and in the case of the maximum letter Heights for the Stop and Shop sign you're talking about a letter
height that um which involves the logo the new logo is about 2% two Ines shorter than what currently exists 5.65 ft to 535 ft maybe that's better uh the pharmacy
sign which uh also is about 11 in shorter the letter height uh that's three approximately 3.58 ft to 2.63 ft and as we see the prevailing Trend here um the sign width
is the only variance of requesting that is slightly larger um I'm sorry the sign width which currently is 31 feet and we're proposing 32.8 ft um however the
overall sign area 175 square ft is not changing and that's a byproduct of the sign letter height going down so it it add it winds up being that the despite the wider sign the area Remains the Same
and the pharmacy sign is approximately 7 in narrower also I already went into the sign area um started that the Stop and Shop sign is the same as what's there right now 175 square ft uh the pharmacy sign is
smaller going down from 49.2 to 34.6 square ft and with the removal of the welcome signs and the reduction in the size of the pharmacy sign uh the overall sign area goes from
240.87 6 squ feet and while these signs are being reduced in addition to refreshing the brand branding for Stop and Shop it still it provides reliable way finding and identification for the building and the pharmacy sign is
required by state law Monument sign area uh which is not changing 32 square ft is the maximum area permitted 49 Square ft exists and will remain this was a condition that was previously
approved by V variance and there's no changes to the existing Dimension it simply is a ref refeshing of the sign um which is particularly important for this sign in guiding uh vehicles to the site off of
517 terms of the signage design uh there are a couple of variances identified the comprehensive signage plan and theme required uh the natural materials required and the maximum of three colors at the Town Center you have several different types of tenants um they have
different branding identities and themes this is common right now throughout and Stop and Shop is continuing that with their distinctive brand as do other same as other tenants the Stop and Shop sign colors the themes the materials are
standardized ac across the brand so regardless of what Stop and Shop you see ultimately when their stores are all um improved in terms of the facades that is the brand that um will be will be
recognized we're reducing the signage colors from 7 to four this is reducing an existing non-conforming condition as noted the colors are part of the brand theme uh and the signage natural materials are not used although as was
noted part of our signage includes Monument signs which we believe not only provide um sufficient identification and wave finding but they're also an attract which is consistent uh in terms of
promoting a design theme for not just for our uh store but for the town center and the signage design it provides clear identity for users to that they recognize Stop and Shop and other and
other users I believe we further several purposes of zoning purpose a encouraging Municipal action to promote the public health saf and general welfare the upgrading of the signs it enhances the anchor tenant while providing efficient
finding an identification and I believe purpose ey promoting desirable visual environment um we're updating the sign design um consistent with the brand identity and previous approvals and continuing to have our signs such as the
monument signs uh for example which fit in with the Town Center the negative criteria there's no substan Cal detriment to the public good we're eliminating several non-conforming conditions including the number of signs the number of type faces on signs it's
all Halo lettering uh we're going to maintain the signs in the surrounding area in good condition consistent with your ordinance the overall sign area is reduced and the reduction in the number of the signs there's no substantial uh detriment in terms of the zoning
ordinance or Zone plan um the signage improvements provide efficient wayfinding I believe they're aesthetically pleasing and they address issues concerning access and identification so for the reasons I've noted request that the variances be
granted under the C2 criteria thank you thank you um I don't know if we have any additional questions from the professionals based on this no I don't have any questions no additional questions anybody from
board I just have a comment for Mr morony I want to thank him for Monday night's training session with njpo he's been rving about it thank you very much yeah I I'm I'm glad you're smiling and thanking
me I've recovered finally it was quite a night yep you can see that again on the YouTube recording if you need that in the future a reminder uh I don't know yeah that's on the record so we have to
watch it yeah he came back he said oh this is a good point this is a good point this is a good point so uh yeah thank you um thank all right there no more questions are we ready for public oh the Public Public I was there in 1895 and Simmons
was too I don't care what he said he was there now one question uh you just make a statement or you I have to swear you if you're going to be as swear me I'm not sure what just your name and if you live in town Michael Divine
Sparta something that's bothered me since something's bothered me since uh maybe seven years ago when the signs came up if you're coming from a Sparta Avenue towards town hall the monument sign that's right
there the location of it seems to me it's such that you don't see it till you're equal to it or past it it yeah the monument 3 I think it is now it may be required because of zoning or whatever some of your requirements
are but I've actually seen cars that have essentially equaled it or pass it have to go make u-turns Etc could be a minor traffic consideration I know they're not proposing to relocate sometime in the future it might be worth
consideration am I clear the point at least I'm trying to make okay a big sign though I understand but as you're coming down you don't see it until you're even with it at least it appears that way to me pardon me I I don't know what the issues are
the constraints on but I'm just pointing out that it appears to me if you're a little closer to Main Street it might be more effective then you have a visuals s yeah that's I I've brought this up in the past on signs
along higher speed roadways whether it be 15 or even that section there and our our sign ordinance prohibits certain Heights and I I think that's something to revisit on some of the higher speed areas to the height so you could have
sight underneath and be able to have the sign more visible from a greater distance and then that may you know may be something to look at in that spot where you you got the sign close to the road but higher up with a a gap underneath for traffic to see you know we don't want it in the town center but
when we're when we're on um main roads where you know where people to see I I see it all the time with people passing the theater center and going oh there's whatever and then have the double back you know because that again has a very
they don't even have a marquee up front you know Mar keys are helpful for the drop on public to be able to see you know what what stores are in there so I think that's what you're talk about it's exactly my point so sometime in the future just to bring it to your attention so thank
you anyone else from the public motion yes uh seeing there's no one else from the public uh it's proper at this if I may make one final comment I don't think you need it and but go ahead well I just want would like to um first of all thank the board and
secondly um we would like the ability to apply for and obtain a construction permit assign permit at our own risk um prior prior to memorialization of the resolution because as I indicated at the outset the remodel is almost completed we'd like to have a grand opening to
have a grand opening you need signs so uh if the board would be so inclined to indicate um on the record that it's agreeable to that so that the building department is aware of it it would be greatly appreciated thank you yeah board counsel and I apologize councel did call
me and uh uh say that it's not uncommon uh we do the approval assuming that you approve it uh then the resolution is at the next meeting and then it's published in the paper in 45 days uh the applicant is requesting that uh there' be no
objection from the planning board and I see no objection that they'd be able to get the planning uh permit from the town uh assume the risk that if someone was to bring in action that they understand that the resolution will be the next meeting there's 45 days after the
publication of the resolution that they're proceeding at their own risk so I I have no objection to that does everyone understand that yes good good I Bard you you have before you an application uh by uh stop and uh Stop and Shop supermarket company LLC the
applicant we respect to property designated uh on the uh Sparta tax map as block 5020 Lots 167 having a street address of Five Town Center Drive 56 Main Street
and 60 Main Street commonly known as the sparta Town Center shopping center uh the property is located in the tclc town uh Center limited commercial Zone in which retail stores are permitted applicant seeks minor site plan approval
and see variances to upgrade its signage to reflect the company's current branding as part of the store renovation which is currently occurring and onway applicant seems to renovate its existing signage and replace it with new signage consisting of uh um signage just set
fourth here today in support of their testimony the applicant had two experts assign expert and also the professional planner uh in addition the board had it review viewed by its board engineer uh who had a written report of February
13th uh 2025 and also the board planner uh negle of their report uh March 24th 2025 the applicant agreed uh as a condition of approval that um they would
work uh with the town as far as looking at the 6D Sparta Avenue as far as the uh maintenance of that sign but recognizing that that is separate and distinct but in good faith they would look at that for you applicant also acknowledged that uh they
would uh comply with the board uh Engineers uh requirements and the board planners requirements by way of board Planner on the maintenance ordinance and also we would incorporate for notice the uh board engineer specifications so
there's no misunderstanding of the uh signage and that was confirmed also by the app professional planner so before you you have an application again for minor site plan approval would C variants with the conditions set forth on the record as I just summarized if
someone would move that and second I'll make that motion I'll second Robert Ley yes yes Ronde yes celest Luciano yes Ernie rad yes councilman Mark Scott yes Christine
Dunbar yes Vice chairman Robert yes and chairwoman Jo fman yes okay and then just so it's on the record that the uh applicant can go to the planning board let's say tomorrow and proceed at their own risk can we
have a formal vote on that also construction Department instruction Department yes vbody make a motion I'll make that motion okay second I'll second okay Robert Blakeley
yes Janette Bur R yes Luciano yes Ernie R yes yes D yes Vice chairman Robert yes CH want yes great thank you thank you very much and Howard you're you're going
to be in contact with uh and regarding thank you very much thanks sir nice presentation how thanks thank you thanks in the middle of store yes why don't we switching take a five minute break yeah for the record
the applicant is going to keep the exhibits Johnn a I'm new byday I had same comes up quick because I'm looking
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e now we are that's a okay we're back in business everybody sorry for the weit we have a couple things we needed to straighten out here
first um under other board business there is one thing that I would like to bring up uh and that is the uh state plan we discussed this last time at the March 19th meeting uh the Town Council had asked for a consist master plan
consistency review and we did do that the there is a cross uh approval process where we could choose to or the Town Council can choose to have the highlands represent us or Sussex County planning
board represent us and the deadline for that was uh April 15th or March 15th we met on the 19th so we didn't really discuss that piece of it because the deadline had passed however um we found
out today that the county would accept a resolution from the Town Council if uh we decided to to go in that direction so we said we would discuss it here um in the meantime I'm just and and we will
discuss it but I had a couple thoughts very last minute thoughts that on April 16th which is our next planning board meeting um and we'll talk about this a little bit later with master plan but uh the intent was to
present the master plan survey to the community and it would also include members of Town Council environmental commission the public Etc and it would be like our kickoff so everybody would be here and that would be a good time to I think to invite somebody from the
highlands District somebody from the county and present to all of us so we know why we're making a recommendation so that's my latest thinking I'm going to throw it out there um if you have opinions of which one you would like I'd
like to hear them we can maybe discuss it now and come to a disc decision or we could invite them as I said to the um meeting on the 16th there's nothing else on the 16th that date was reserved for the diamond ship uh judge minkowitz in
his order compelled us to start our hearings within 45 days uh we agreed to the April 16th date uh Diamond chip came back and they agreed to the date and two days later they filed an appeal and um then there's also a the
federal lawsuit so so that date is still open and and just clarify the record the diamond ship uh the court had determined that you as a board had to make an determination within a certain timeline
so the board in good faith uh Voli to uh Diamond Chip's attorney as to the availability April 16th and in fact it is still on your agenda uh for April 16th however it's marked uh a journ will
be marked adjourn without new date because the uh applicant has filed an appeal to the Appel court and in their uh related correspondence said to the board uh that they are looking to the court for a determination of The Next
Step so again in good faith they are on the April 16th agenda we've done what we have to do but they will be adjourned without new date uh in addition to that there is a pending lawsuit that was filed in the federal court and in your
package uh the planning board was named in that action so there's a resolution uh that a Richard erer of oler and Breslin would be appointed representing the planning board interest in that Federal lawsuit uh I will continue to
handle the pellet issue uh on Judge mtz's case but this is a separate and distinct lawsuit so before you there's a resolution for Richard Aller uh I've reviewed it it is in Conformity the only thing I would add on that is that and
I'm sure Mr erer will advise the planning board either through my office or the board secretary as to the status of events and I'm sure again that won't be a problem but I will just add that to the resolution and I think it's appropriate at this time uh chairperson
to uh there's no need to discuss it unless you want to discuss it in exec session okay exective session okay that's fine it's pending litigation you uh we can do it in in close session thank
okay all right so getting back to the state plan um I'm throwing it out there that's my recommendation I'm looking for the board to uh give me their op I I'll just give you my thoughts I like the idea hearing from both the pros
and the cons um I can see pros and cons to both them yeah it sounds like there's an option we can have them both am I understanding that correctly um if you we didn't meet the deadline we automatically fell to the um
Highlands and uh in order to go to the county the Town Council has toare and uh vote on a resolution right if we go with Highlands we can always pull out but I'm not so sure it works the other way but I don't really know so
it would be good to hear from I like I like your thoughts on let's let's hear from them and see what they both have to offer okay um you know assuming they can come hopefully they can so I would ask Dory then if U could contact them and invite them to our meeting and uh it
would tie in really nicely I think with the survey and having everybody here and the Town Council can hear the recommendations since they ultimately have to vote on it sound like a plan plan thank you um all right let's do the
updates to Town Council sure um at the last Town council meeting we had Bill Mor was postponed um mayor is returned and he will be back at the next meeting um we had a
discussion uh about Sparta mountain and stop the chop issue uh representatives from from wildlife management and uh representatives from the state from Trenton here to answer questions and many people from the
public uh ask questions about what's going on there um I think there's more to learn and more to investigate as to why exactly this uh clearing of of
clearing of trees has taking place in this in this Zone um it it doesn't seem clear whether it's for profit or whether it's truly to uh restore the birds the birds and animals
nesting grounds so that's something for us to discuss for the uh them to come back and discuss um during the public session we have a surprised guest from
SS cumus and he was the the uh the lawyer for um diam ship and he rather aggressively uh informed us that he had filed a 52 page lawsuit and
that many of us were being named and and uh and essentially he threatened us and then he walked out of the room so that was a little bit of excitement the other night um and uh it's worth watching on the table okay
thanks what Mark is it number minute like 109 108 yeah one I think maybe 112 somewhere right in yeah you are interested I'm sorry I missed it I left
right before and I saw his name on the sheet all right thank you Mark um environmental commission yes thank you so these are my notes from March 27th and uh the first thing I'd like to
mention is is that no new applications were asked to be reviewed and secondly um brought to our attention during two public sessions um previous sessions and at the plant This
Not That lecture event sponsored by the EC is the growing concern regarding the abundance of deer and the lack of the Town addressing this concern that seems to be impacting everyone in
Sparta at our last uh at this meeting a licensed landscape designer and member of the Lake Mohawk Country Club horticulturist and Design Group spoke at spoke with us and she suggested that we could look into a
applying for a free program called communitybased deer management which is provided by the njde Brian shun an njde wildlife biologist has offered to give a talk
about the science of deer overpopulation debunk any myths and discuss potential effective means of control he would answer questions regarding the cbdm and the application process most of
the EC members we felt this presentation would be best given during a combined open meeting of the Town Council and the EC together with the public police Recreation and and um all departments
invited the decision to develop a community-based deer management plan will need to come in the form of a t Township resolution and the third thing I would like to bring to your attention and Delight is our Earth Day
celebration that will be on May 3rd from 10 to to 2 PM at the Sparta Middle School it's going to be rain and shine rain or shine and this is one of our sustainable Jersey action projects at the event there's going to be um the
spark EC exhibit a kids corner by the Sparta Middle School the Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority will be there the the Walo River um watershed management group The Highlands Coalition
the friends of the wal Hill Refuge the food shed Alliance the sparta Community Food Pantry the pollen Gill Watershed Community Forest watch um forest fire service and more and there will be music and food
vendors what are the hours of that it's going to be 10 to 2 rain or shine if it's looks like it's going to be a wet day we're going to be inside we can move inside there and then the last thing I jotted
down to uh report and invite you to attend is bagot day the EC is going to participate in an annual event EV called bagot day where we clean up Sparta and
our EC is meeting on Blue Heron road at 9 o'clock on April 6th if you care to join and Rob do you have anything you'd like to add I think I think you covered it pretty well uh I would just piggyback
on um the representative um from Lake Mohawk Horticultural uh she's a landscape um designer for over 40 years and so uh I'm also trying to see if she might be available to help us with some
of our recommendations for commercial applicants um because as we know uh a lot of times I think environmental will suggest that applicants um plant native plants but the deer know the natives
they like the native plants and so planting them seems like a good idea idea but then they get consumed so she pointed us towards Native ours um and she also has a contact who lives in Sparta um teaches uh continuing
education ruers um and I believe as a Master Gardener um and we're going to try to see if he might be able to give us do a talk for us but the reason um that I invited her is she had started the process within Lake Mohawk because
we kind of have a special very hungry very aggressive type of herds of deer um and so she started this process with njde but um as has been pointed out it it would really need to come through Town Council so by getting the benefit
of her starting this process I think six months ago we can kind of get a jump on it and then she just went into detail about if there's a call um there's there's a whole process but uh it's it's very well thought out uh
there's harvesting of the uh the meat from Deer um and which is given to uh needy food pantries I believe uh but but the state has a whole program so um seemed interesting but but the
requirement is that we do need to have a talk to educate to uh kind of address the public concerns because they there are obviously going to be concerns if we go that route um and so that's the first step of the process and then if a hunt
is deemed necessary that would typically happen in winter and then need to organize permissions and uh deer processing fees um and then we continued longer term
discussions on some of the ordinances ordinance ideas obviously lighting is one that I've brought up before um I brought up tonight with an application so that that work is ongoing okay thank you both Christine
what time is that the April 6 bag nine o'clock Sor that's parking Rod okay thanks Rob you want to follow up with the plan subcommittee I think we caught up uh dealing with the new email system
them but today I just kind of we've had some uh common themes I guess that have come up in applications and questions and uh basically it um it was an opportunity
for some of the more seasoned planning and minor site plan um subcommittee members to help steer us towards uh developing a better process so make
it better as far as the first step for an applicant um so that there's we try to cut down on any um gray areas I guess is what we're working on um try to be realistic about
the the fees for um our admin staff as well as our professionals um and then um just kind of backfill uh best practices um
on the the process of looking at a minor site plan application and and then determining whether that's the best place for it or whether it just gets sent to planning
board for review or zoning I guess um so I think that's sounds like a couple years ago you guys kind of really overhauled the system and then this is going to be another overhaul and then I think this
might be the opportunity for some new members to replace some of those people who have given a lot of uh years and and time to that subcommittee so we'll be looking uh to this committee to to take a seat uh or two on that
subcommittee all right thanks yes unfortunately Ron has served his term and is uh looking to do some other things and uh Brian Zid did offer to um fill that spot so he will be joining us
on the minor site plan subcommittee in the future all right thank you um then there's the master plan subcommittee which I started to speak about ear earlier uh tomorrow is a meeting and we will be going through the survey One
Last Time Lindsay will be presenting it we'll be in here so we can uh do a practice run on the big screen and uh be make any last minute changes and be ready for uh the public on April 16th and we'll have to talk about it tomorrow
how we go about making all the announcements and letting everybody know but um I think it's exciting as uh mentioned previously we had over a thousand responses so it was a very productive survey and uh then we'll also be taking a look at what we'd want to do
for the next steps in terms of the budget that we have and uh which studies we want to do and we're going to get started on it so that's the update on that one last thing um excuse me um the
marijuana discussion by the Town Council has been changed from April 8 to April 22nd at 7.m missed opportunity we know many people room involved in the discussion last
week or two weeks ago and uh that's that's when uh it'll be decided on on April 22nd no 420 it's Earth Day all right like open it to the public for comments that uh we have not that were
not on the agenda how's that okay Jenny derk's typa despart um you were discussing the Joan you were talking about the um upcoming possible date for DCR to return for a hearing then there was a discussion that
because they've um made an appeal and they've also filed in federal court that they're not coming back but aren't they under a court order and don't they therefore need to stay from the court in order to be relieved of the requirement to come back because the finding from J
judge minkowitz was the order and that order Cuts both ways that both you and DCR have to return here within 45 days so how does just the fact that they have that they file with the court rather than have an actual stay and appealing
to the court for a stay from that requirement from Mink's last requirement good question defer to Ken yes the uh you have uh stated the facts as presented uh think of yourself though as
the property owner uh you do have control of what you do submit or do desire uh the court has made a determination uh that Court determination in my opinion was favorable to the township of Sparta the applicant is not happy with that and the
applicant has filed an appeal of that uh they have the right to do that the uh lower opinion of the trial judge said that they had to uh the ability to come back before this board that was a duty that was placed on us that we would put
them on our agenda we have done what we have to do the applicant in a formal letter um has St that they have filed an appeal to the Appel court and in fact as you had alluded to theyve filed a
separate Federal action I think the councilman had also noted that uh there was some discussion with that the mayor and councel so all those issues uh if you were writing a law school exam should they have gone to ask for a
stay uh probably on the Law School exam you would say yes in practice how however they have chosen their path there's terms called waivers latches a stopple these are Equitable terms that
uh the DCR will now be subject to uh because they have not asked for a stay they have chosen their own path and uh U that's they have legal council that advised them of that so there to answer
your question they have chosen their path they have chosen not to ask for a stay we have done what we have to do in good faith so I'm comfortable advising the board that they have done what they have to do and we'll wait now to see how the court resolves the remaining issues
so not having a Stay doesn't do anything for Sparta um in other words should something come up because just a technicality seems like something that DCR would be very interested in and even though it cuts
in their favor um it just seems like holding them accountable for checking every box to make sure that every legal um ramification to the court require the Court's order should be
followed to the letter um given their litigious nature um who knows what could come next or how a court is going to look at it how the appell court looks at it and anyway it just um seems like The Prudent thing to make sure that
every box is checked Tech every technical box is checked yeah we've done everything right uh the the this board and the May counsel are doing everything right so thank you for your comments there's no checking with judge minkowitz on this judge minkowitz ruled in your
favor judge minkowitz did not retain jurisdiction so why would we go back to the court because quite frankly you were successful so the ball is in dcr's court to respond to what they have to do and
they have chosen to file an appeal and bring a separate action uh could that come back to um hinder them by way in the federal action to say that the uh issues are not ripe that they did not
come before this board there has not been a compliance with judge mwi's determination these are all things that candidly uh go against DCR uh but let's see how the court interprets it again I'm very comfortable
representing this board and saying that you've done everything right and from what I see the mayor and councel are doing everything right also there's nothing to do just as a followup they never informed us that they will not be
present on April 16th uh they wrote a letter saying and this is a public record I'll make sure everyone at the board has it that says that uh they are filing an appeal and awaiting the Court's determination so did they say
they are not coming on April 16th I do not recall the letter saying we will not be here but it is clear that they are not proceeding before the planning board until they have uh as they said a court determination of their issues um again
they had they have competent counsel uh should they have come back before the board to get a record to get a determination uh they chose not to go that route they chose to go a procedural route and um continue to throw stones so
let's see how the court uh looks at it but again nothing for this board to do thank you that letter was sent out to everybody and it's also in the public file good thank you clear what we have done it's on our
agenda for April 16th you gave them the opportunity uh and they have written their letter saying that they're waiting for the court determination and therefore uh what will happen at April 16th is their matter will not be uh it
uh will be complied with with the court and without a new date being set ask to Carri the matter is not being carried per se the it's my legal advice to the board we have a judge's determination
that the matter be heard within I believe was 45 days uh we have complied with that the applicant is is uh choosing in their letter not to go forward on that date therefore if it
ever went to court we could say here is our agenda April 16th it was on there they chose not to go forward and therefore it was uh placed without new date there's no carrying there's no action there's no determination so again
we have memorialized in the record that we have done what we have to do pursuant to judge MN and uh the applicant is choosing their own path of litigation which uh again I'm repeating myself whether or not they uh should have come here for a record of a
determination because this board has not voted on that application determined jurisdiction or any of the issues raised by judge mckin so sure okay well that's a good segue into our executive session um which is uh
resolution 20 25-5 the pending litigation with diamond ship realy the appell at filing status by the board attorney and attorney client privileged communication is there something that has to be read yeah does this resolution has to be voted all yes and that's uh
interesting the no not this one hold on the uh the we are going to go into Clos session we will be coming out of Clos session and uh whether or not there is going to be determination on the special Council or
whether you want to carry that to the next meeting but that is here before you if uh when we come out a close session do you anticipate making a determination most likely okay so then uh so it's clear we're going into Clos session
based upon uh pending litigation and we will be coming out of close session and more than likely making a determination on legal council being appointed for the uh planning board for the pending
Federal litigation matter of diamond chip realy versus the township of Sparta and the planning board Etc and the federal action if you recall I'm handling the Appellate action by way of Judge mt's determination so there's two
separate and distinct litigations again judge mt's determination has being appealed by the applicant DCR I am handling that matter there is a separate and distinct Federal lawsuit alleging violation of substantive due process and
other issues which is being handled by the township and providing representation to the board because you have been named in that action that's it okay we have a motion to go into executive session make that motion
we just say I or do we need a formal roll call a formal roll call okay Robert Bley yes Janette Burke yes Ron day yes CEST Luciano yes Ernie rad yes coun Mark Scott yes Christine dunar yes Vice chairman Robert uto yes chairwoman Joan
Ferman yes and just for the record I understand that uh the representative of the board of adjustment is here because of some of the rulings that uh that individual should be allowed to be in the close session Ken Lori Ken Lori for the record
thank you all right those who want to go home can go home e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e um specifically by Diamond chip realy we have before us a resolution uh in that
the planning board was named in the federal lawsuit of diamond ship realy LLC versus the township of Sparta planning board uh appointing Richard erer o ER of erer and Breslin and uh as
we discussed uh his terms of Engagement are by the mayor and Council so they'll uh handle that aspect and I'm sure Mr oler as your conflict Council will also keep the planning board either through my office or through the board Secretary
advis of case management in upcoming events so I'd recommend to the board that they pass the resolution as presented uh appointing Richard erer in the federal lawsuit on your behalf as part of the joint
representation team for the burough I make a motion that we uh appoint him any second a second just as a matter of course though um Jenny left but if she is out there and we are in public session should we like just make sure
there's nobody out there yeah go ahead that's a very very good P very good councel I'm getting there very good we're done we're done we're done we're done take this hang down all right so for the record it was
confirmed that there is no public in the hall we have a motion uh moved and seconded roll call and Mr go ahead Robert Bley Janette Burke yes Ronde yes
celest Luciano yes Ernie rad yes councilman Mark Scott yes Christine dvar yes Vice chairman Robert yes chairwoman John fman yes and you should also add that's what I was just to pen Lori and yes penor great thank you and Mr Lori as
you went by we look forward to seeing you on the 16 I will be here thank you okay is there a motion to adjourn motion to [Laughter] adjourn that's my