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/spartatwp. Please note that adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act. No new business to be conducted after 9:30 p.m. and the meeting will end at 10. Let us begin with a salute to our flag. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America and to the republic for which it stands nationy and justice for all. >> Raisha, would you please call the role? here. >> Christine Quinn >> here. Mike Wallace

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>> here. >> Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester >> here. >> Ronda Day >> here. >> Christine Dunar >> here. >> Joan Farman >> here. >> Ernie Ragstack >> here. >> Vice Chairwoman Janette Burke >> here. >> Chairwoman Celeste Luciano >> here. >> Brian Zimmerman >> here.

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>> Bear Bogler. >> So, apologies to the public for us starting so late. We're having a few technical difficulties with our presentation. That having been said, we are going to be um doing things uh well, actually, we're doing things a little bit in order because the minutes are

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first on the agenda. So, uh I will bring it to the board for any comments or questions on the minutes related to June 17th 2026. Okay. Um, seeing none, may I have a motion and a second to approve these

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minutes. >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> I'll second. >> And we need a roll call vote, please. >> Christine Quinn, >> yes. >> Mike Wallace. Yes. >> Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester. >> Yes.

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>> Ron Day. >> Yes. >> Christine Dunar. >> Yes. >> Joan Furman. >> Yes. >> Ernie Ragstead. >> Yes. >> Vice Chairwoman Janette Bert. >> Yes. >> Chairwoman Celeste Luciano. >> Yes. >> Brian Zimmerman. Beer Bogler. >> Brian. >> Hi.

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>> They're minutes so it's it's administrative. So you're you're Okay. Um uh now we will move on to meeting minutes for July 15, 2026. Any comments or questions from the board?

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Okay, hearing none. Uh, may I have a motion and a second for approval for these minutes? >> I'll make a motion that we approve. >> I'll second. >> Roll call, please. >> Christine Quinn, >> yes. >> Mike Wallace, >> yes. Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester.

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>> Yes. >> Ronda, >> yes. >> Christine Dunar, >> yes. >> Joan Ferman, >> yes. >> Ernie Rex, >> yes. >> Vice Chairwoman Janette Burke, >> yes. >> Chairwoman Celeste Luciano, >> yes. >> Brian Zimmerman, >> yes. >> Begler, okay. All sets of minutes having been

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approved, we are going uh we do not have any resolutions. Um we are going to hold for the moment for the public hearings which is the community facilities element and

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the recycling element um pending these technical difficulties. Um executive session will be moved to the end of this meeting. So we're going to move forward with uh updates. Deputy Mayor Sylvester Town Council

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please. No updates, Mrs. Pride. None. >> Okay. >> No updates. >> No updates. Okay. Updates for subcommittees. Uh we do have minutes for minor site plan subcommittee.

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We to date have 28 applications that have come through minor site plan. Um out of those we only have one that's pending. Two of those applications were withdrawn um by the applicant. One of them was denied. the rest were approved.

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So that is the update for minor site plan and we anticipate that last application to be reviewed and resolved within the next few days. Um master plan subcommittee we have had uh we had our

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last meeting on Monday. >> Monday. >> Monday. Apologies. We've had so many. >> I know. We've had so many. Um we had our last meeting on Monday where uh the subcommittee did um

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discuss uh the goals and objectives. We went through the first goal um for the overarching document and the objectives relative to that. Um we seem to be in agreement that that the objectives that have been put together are are reasonably cohesive and potentially

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subject to change as other elements um you know come into light. Um we are going to be moving forward with subsequent meetings, one scheduled um for the 10th of this month and one scheduled for the 26th of this month. Originally, the meeting on the 10th was

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intended to review um the submission that was made from um from the planning board to or the township to the Highlands um for purposes of the grant and um that was the assessment to determine whether or not it would be

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reasonable for us to opt into the regional master plan. Um but the that the intent of that was that the presentation of that was supposed to be scheduled for the 19th. However, the liaison to the council to the the

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Highlands council is not available on the 19th. So that's going to get pushed back to September 2nd. Um we're hoping that that's going to be a joint meeting between the town council for Sparta and the planning board um for the purposes of that presentation. Um that having

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been said, the agenda for the next um master plan subcommittee meeting on Monday is has not quite yet been solidified because we're not exactly sure how many more elements of um of the master plan are ready for review and

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consumption. But should that not be the case, then we'll continue with goals and objectives and continue that discussion on the 10th um with the intention of the Highland submission to be reviewed on at our meeting on the 26th. Um that having been said, that's

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everything at this point for master plan subcommittee. We are also supposed to be scheduling out our meetings for September. Um that schedule will come out within the next few days. So we will move forward to other board business.

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>> Yes. Uh Celeste, we had discussed informally the uh uh Lake Mohawk historic district ordinance and under D other board business. I did I did provide to the uh board a uh proposed

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ordinance that was uh given by Miss Watson and Mr. Gills. Uh Stephen, I think they're here. Are they? Yes. Yes. uh if you mind coming up real quick, we'll get get you in and out. Uh the if they could just explain the this is an ordinance that they had provided and I

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appreciate it. Uh I know that uh Christine [clears throat] Quinn had pointed out a couple uh quick things uh in here, but if if they could just bring us up to date. This is the Lake Mohawk. Tell us about the ordinance that you you

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gave to me. Thank you. >> Okay. Can you hear me? Think I might take this off. Um, so this is a standalone ordinance um where it is uh basically fashioned after

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the existing one um for uh the C1H. Um, but it is very specific to uh the White Deer Plaza area and it uh basically lists the permitted principles to be inclusive of uh predominantly what is

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there today. Um and uh takes into account um what had been previously noted with regard to the inclusion of um hotels, motel um and um inser

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um as listed uh approved or permitted uses. So outside of that, um it's it's fairly straightforward and um also lists um specifically the blocks and lots that are within the White Deer Plaza Historic

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District. >> And did the uh Lake Mohawk uh is your organization approved this? Are they okay with it or still needs your internal approval? >> It has been approved. >> Yes. uh board. What I I'd recommend and

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I I I got this on July 17th. Uh so I I did review it. Um I I apologize for only sending to you uh yesterday, but I would think it would be proper to put it on our next agenda, give you time to look at it. I'll have time to submit this to

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the uh the uh township attorney if he had any comments a as to this and we could have a discussion at your next meeting. Again, this is a uh you don't have any power in and of itself to pass the ordinance, but as part of the

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consistency review and we have the master plan, I think this is very timely. So again, I' I'd recommend uh unless the uh any other comments from Stephen who's there, uh uh we'll just put it on the next agenda. >> That's okay with you.

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>> No, I think Sabina's got it covered. Thank you. [laughter] >> Uh I I'm I'm in agreement with that, especially since our next meeting is at the n is on the 19th and the town council's meeting is thereafter on the 25th if they choose to make a decision

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um at that time. I think Christine, you had some uh and I I I appreciate you reviewed it already. >> I did. I took notes. I did. >> Okay. >> Um so >> I wouldn't be surprised Joan has reviewed it. I don't know yet. >> Um I just have uh two questions. One is

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I know that in one of the properties and reviewing the block and lot numbers um there's a daycare there. So my question is is that considered retail? >> Can you please use >> Oh, thank you. >> That would be helpful. Okay. Um, so I noticed in reviewing the block and lot numbers, I believe one of them has a daycare. One of the the properties has a

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daycare in it. And I'm just wondering, is that part of what you would consider to be retail or does that need a special provision and say it's allowed? >> It would be special provision. >> Okay. So I I think since it's already there, >> yes,

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>> maybe that's something to think about is just to add that in there so that that is >> we can definitely take a look at that. Um, it could very well be something like a uh, yeah, we're trying to get away from the pre-existing non-conforming. So, we'd

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have to look at the language um, specific to that kind of use. That is general terminology in in zoning ordinances. >> It's just that like the only concern is because it's already existing, for something happened. if they do any kind of improvements, we wouldn't want to have to, you know, require them

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subsequently to go for a variance. Right. Agreed. >> So, if you could think about that. Yes. And the other thing that concerned me was when I was reading page two, um, in the paragraph, it says required conditions and then the sentence reads,

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"The requirements for the C-HWDP zone shall be the same as C1 zone." Um, so my concern there is that's not the C1H zone, right? Because the C1H zone

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has bed and has hotels and motel in it. >> So, do you need that sentence in there at all tying you to another zone? >> Well, C1H as it stands today has that same language in it. It refers back to the C1 zone. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that

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>> it's an overarching one. Yeah. So, we're good. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Maybe we'll take We got time, but maybe we'll take another look at that. >> Yeah, we will. Absolutely. >> Those are just my two things. Thank you. >> And then just quickly, the uh we have uh the board engineering board planner

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here. I'd recommend obviously if if they could take a look at this and give their input uh the board. >> Think that would be proper. >> I think that's absolutely. So as a point of process, you mentioned that this I think when we had this discussion, we

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said that the intent was for us to basically bring this to the council, right? As um so we were going to make this recommendation to the council, right? >> So does it make sense that so I guess in that process question if we reach out to them before we talk about this at the

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next meeting then is that bypassing our process? Should it just stay with us and then go to them when we when we've had the discussion? >> I mean, transparency is not going to hurt us here. Okay. >> Uh it's a you know, I think the comment

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it'll be in public at our next session. We have a nice framework here. Uh Christine, good comment, but I think we're I think we're okay. >> Okay. >> I I have one comment if I can, just a question. Um when I look at the uh principal uses number four is apartments

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over retail, commercial and office establishments. So that's a permitted use but I think it's also captured in in the conditional use. So the question is should it be one or the other? So the first one is actually based on um existing >> existing.

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>> Yes. >> It is not for proposed. >> Good question. >> So can would we need number four >> just so it's not so it doesn't confuse [clears throat] if they're existent? I think it's already there. Is my

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>> Yes. However, if if we were to have um an establishment that currently does not have an apartment above it, um then then that would have that would fall under the requirement for a conditional use. >> Yeah, it does. >> Oh, I see. Okay. Go ahead.

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>> Okay. >> All right. Let me think about that one, too. >> So, for for instance, we had >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Let me think about a little bit more. Okay. >> No problem. >> Thank you.

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>> Okay. Any other preliminary questions is we'll do a deeper dive at our next meeting. >> So, Celeste, you'll have that on the agenda. >> I believe Joan. >> Yeah. I haven't really had a chance to go over this because I was busy and it, as you said, it came out last night. So,

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but there are a couple things. Um, one is Chris brought up the C1 zone that would be kind of like where um, Jay Thomas Jewelers and you know a lot of that area and then this other area by as you're coming down Woodport Road and stuff but a lot of that also refers to

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the design standards that are in place there and I don't think like Mohawk should be having the same kind of design standards as a C1 zone and that was one of the reasons we brought this up last year because we were going through the uh, minor site plan subcommittee and looking at these signs and we were

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running into, you know, a lot of questions and trouble about it. Um, last time we met, we asked that Ken um put together an ordinance, but this is now just coming back with some changes from last time, but Ken, I'd like to

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recommend that you take a look maybe at the TCC zone. I think it it's a much stronger um ordinance >> and I think it would be more beneficial for Lake Mohawk to have some of these um

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more stringent things. The signed standards are much more updated there. Until such time as we're ready to look at design standards and signs specifically for C1H. And if that's not ready, I think that the TCC will offer much better protection for that. And

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overall, um, and I noticed some of these things did change from the last time, and it did not incorporate all of our comments, and I took a look at what you had sent to town council, um, because I had asked for it, but I it wasn't given to the rest of the board, and it didn't include all of our comments. So, I want

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to make sure that all of that is incorporated in here. So maybe you can take a look at a rewrite because this should be coming from a land use um position. You know what makes sense in that area and we and we're going to look at in the master plan but we should be

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thinking at it from that perspective now too. >> So all of that is intended to happen. This is what what was existing from from the club and what the club provided to us. >> Correct. But now we have to right now now it's time >> we have to do that before, >> you know, not just look at this, but I

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really would like Ken's input and have a review of TCC and some other things to, you know, kind of tighten this up a little bit. Um, >> good comment on the you can reference the TCC zone as to design standards.

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>> Well, I think there's some other protections in there, too. I just like you to take a look at it because I think it might be a better starting point and incorporate, you know, some of these changes into that. But take a look and and, you know, get back to us on that. Um, you also mentioned um sending this

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to the town council attorney. Keep in mind he has a conflict. So, who should we send it to? >> Uh, we should send to the clerk and and I understand Mr. Zep uh may be uh moving on. So, uh,

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>> the clerk and the acting, uh, administrator. >> Okay. Um, and I had a question. How many retail establishments are there now? Kind of following up on what Ron was saying. How many are there now that do

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not have apartments over them? >> I don't have that number exactly. >> Could you find out? >> Sure. because I think there's only >> I have a list in my own concerns about spot zoning and maybe Ken you can address spot zoning as well. at least two

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frozen either one of them, >> right? >> Yeah, there at least two, >> you know, take a look at spot zoning. Um, and I'll have to go, you know, as I said, I haven't had much chance to go through it, but based on some of the discussion, those are my comments.

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>> So, all that having been said, Ken, what do you think your timeline would be for >> I'll have it by the next week. So, I'd like to keep it on the agenda in August. >> Okay. So, we'll be able we'll be capable of reviewing it prior to >> Okay. And even if we don't, let's say at

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the 17th meeting, the uh we 19th, I'm sorry, we need more time. We need more time, but I'd like to see it on the agenda. This should be an discussion. >> And I mean, this is not this in and of itself is not spot zoning. No, we're we're I'll take a look at it to make

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sure that we're not offending any spots on >> Right. I mean, because it's okay. >> So, we should be all right. David, you think you'll have a chance to look at it by uh next meeting? >> Yes. Thank you. And did Lindsay run away? Where's Lindsay? >> Uh Lindsay is still working on >> Lindsay's it.

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She's >> wearing her other hat. >> Lindsay, you think your team could look at it by? Good. Thank you. you you'll coordinate with our professionals. I will >> and then get back with Lake Mohawk >> and then by the 19th,

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>> hopefully way before the 19th, >> um or at least a couple days before the 19th, the goal is to get it to us so that we could discuss it openly and it'll be on the agenda on the 19th. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Do either of you have any questions of us that you know you're you're here, you may as well ask. [laughter]

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Just glad that it's it's appears to that there's progress being made on it. It's really important for us. So, thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thanks, guys. >> Almost there. >> Okay.

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>> Uh you know what? >> That's a good sign. That is a good sign. >> That is a good sign. Do we need a fivem minute recess or can we uh can we proceed? All right, we'll have two open to the public sessions.

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[laughter] Seeing as though you know we we uh we need to fill the time. So if anybody has any questions, comments for items that are not on the agenda, please feel free come to the microphone now. >> And if you don't have comments, if you

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have a good joke, we'll appreciate that. >> We'll appreciate that too. [laughter] >> Like you always have a good one. If you know anything about it, that's welcome as well. >> Yes, that's welcome as well. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Almost there. >> Almost there.

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>> All right. >> Oh, look at that. >> Oh, >> so close. Put your monitor on. You can see it on there. >> We're so close. >> Turn it on. All the way to the right. >> I just I wonder can we make that bigger

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>> touch because maybe it's not plugged in. >> Yeah, maybe not. >> Oh, I thought it was just >> she is but you can't see it, right? So, apologies to those uh who are viewing online and those who are in the audience patiently waiting for the

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community facilities element presentation and the recycling element presentation which will be happening in tandem. >> There you go. I >> think we have this almost worked out. should be there somewhere.

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>> You see it? >> Okay. Is >> there any way that camera could zoom in on that because you can't see it from the public? >> Oh, yeah. >> They have to Yeah, they have to put it on. >> Yes, they have to put it on the live.

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>> Everyone at home is watching it. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, it's our anticipation that everyone at home is capable of seeing the presentation. If not, please weigh in. Feel free and we will uh do our best to remedy the situation. >> You're in.

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>> And without further ado, we will >> be presenting the community facilities element and the recycling element. Lindsay, take it away. >> All right. Uh good evening members of the planning board. [clears throat] um and my tech assistant Hisha. Um tonight

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we're going to be presenting the draft um updates for both the community facility element and the recycling element for uh Sparta Township comprehensive master plan. Um these elements all serve as kind of a blueprint for sustainable growth, ensuring that the township's infrastructure, public safety systems,

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and environmental framework kind of keep pace with the community's needs. So, next slide. You can just click I think I think I had it just lined up for you. Like just click the mouse. Um, okay. Click the arrow forward.

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>> Okay. This is now on the live screen. getting text. >> Okay. >> They can't see it. >> Okay. So, we're getting we're getting word that the public can't see it. >> No picture >> is on presentation screen.

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>> Is is the actual presentation in the presentation mode? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, what we could do is maybe take it off so we can see you guys and we can put the presentation physically online tomorrow for people to see. Um,

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>> but all they see is a black screen. >> Yeah, they said all they see is a black screen. >> Would it would it make sense? You mentioned a five minutes. You give them five minutes take >> Yeah. You know what? We're going to take a fivem minute recess right now to see if we can we can make sure that the public can see this. Okay. So, hold on.

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Let me see. Yeah. Five minute recess. >> Yeah. Can we can we just ask like what it is so next time maybe we >> I think it's just a matter of telling the tech group that we're that we're

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doing a presentation. >> That's what it was. >> Well, I think it's they come in and they have specific ways they want to set up the room and it wasn't set up tonight. So Rayisha and I were troubleshooting to try to make it work. So, we were trying our Yeah, we're trying our best. I think there was just a miscommunication.

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>> Got it done, which is great. So, just like store it up here for a lot up there. My brain's a little bit like Swiss cheese, though, so we can't make any promises. >> We're live, which is good. So, now that the technical difficulties are seemingly taken care of, we'll let Lindsay again

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take it away. >> All right, Rachel, you can hit the little arrow all the way at the bottom. Would it be easier for me to just sit there and use that mic? >> Probably. I knew it. Probably. Yeah. You want to switch spots, right? >> I'm sorry. Say what? You're going to swap.

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>> Switch spots. Yeah. >> It'll be easier. All right. Okay. Working. We're good. So, kind of the overview of the community facilities element and the purpose is um the community facilities is based on the MLUL or the municipal

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land use law. It directs municipalities to inventory the township's uh public assets, evaluate operational capacities, and project future capital investments. This ensures that educational, cultural, historic, and public safety facilities are properly aligned with the

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surrounding areas. So, key municipal services, uh, Sparta's public services are robust. The township's uh police headquarters are currently supporting 36 officers alongside regional dispatch, managing a baseline of over 39,000 incidents a

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year. Fire services operate across three stations with more than 50 volunteers, while the township's volunteer and paid ambulance squad handles roughly 1500 calls annually. Sparta also houses a consolidated municipal court serving Sparta, Hamburg, and Ogdensburg.

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So other resources that Sparta has are the water and sewer utility. Um regarding utilities, the Sparta Township water and sewer utilities operate a decentralized network out of 12 Park Lake Road routing wastewater to the Sussex County Municipal um utilities

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authority for regional treatment. Pottable water is managed across the uh Highland Lake Mohawk and Sunset Lake systems. Moving on to the recreation and green spaces. Uh the township's parks and open spaces

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including station park, dystress uh or the library park, White Lake Fields, and the Sparta Mountain Wildlife uh management area to name a few provide exceptional recreational value. Um we kind of showed some of those options there. Um, in speaking with kind of the subcommittee, um, we spoke about a lot

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of the resources within these parks, walking paths, fields for, uh, recreational facilities, um, and how in the future hopes of continuing the use of natural grass, uh, for those fields, um, is something that's of the highest

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priority to the community. So, in addition, um this network of uh recreation and green spaces is heavily supported by the township's many local houses of worship, civic organizations like the VFW and Elks, and active community groups that strengthen the township's social fabric.

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In addition to the semi uh public community assets, Sparta does have a number of private facilities. Several notable facilities contributing to the community and quality of life. They consist of private lakes, golf courses, parks, marinas, and recreational

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amenities. Next, we kind of look at the school systems and we did inventory on the public schools as well as the private schools. Um, the township's public school system, including Alpine Elementary, Mohawk Avenue School, Helen uh Morgan School, Sparta Middle School, and Sparta High School are projecting

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significant enrollment growth, particularly in the elementary grades. Um, this is notable especially when considering site plan applications and as they move forward. We think that incorporating things from the long range facilities plans that the schools have done are something we should think about

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with upcoming um applications and things that should be considered with those applications as well. After the schools, we start looking at things like healthc care facilities and access. Um, you know, there's local access versus regional um regional. Um,

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on the healthcare front, residents are well served locally by Atlantic Health Urgent Care, the Sparta Health and Wellness Center, and specialized surgical facilities with regional trauma and acute care supported by Newton Medical Center, St. Claire's, and Morristown Medical Center. Next, we start looking at the

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accessibility of Sparta as a whole. Um a major a major priority for this element is enhancing accessibility. So Sparta currently lacks a comprehensive ADA audit and we would recommend establishing a formal ADA self-evaluation and transition plan to

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systematically review municipal properties, prioritize barrier removal and leverage available grant funding to universal compliance. Um sustainable Jersey community design for all ages is something that we should also consider. This is localized walkability, which is sometimes called the 15minute

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neighborhood. So that kind of means children who live in a neighborhood have accessibility to walk to things in their neighborhood like parks, libraries, schools, or uh seniors can reach community facilities. So, this kind of entails better sidewalks, better

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lighting, um having shade structures along your sidewalks or benches or more street furniture so that especially with the senior population when you're going on those walks, there's the ability to take a second and rest. Now, with all of that being said, we kind of start looking at your public

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safety capacity and planning for that. um and your kind of key operational metrics that would influence these things. So, as I said earlier, uh your police service has 39,054 incidents. Um that's the 2025 baseline. So, like I said earlier, you have 36

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full-time officers. That's inclusive of two special law uh law enforcement officers and a civilian staff. A recent FBI audit said that 45 is required for this size of a community. Um, but we would recommend an internal study

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speaking to um your police department as well as looking at the police service areas and where maybe these calls are generating from and determining maybe it's a matter of having more service in certain areas. Um, once again, we think that these um

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these incidents should also be coordinated with site plan applications and police capacity. um not necessarily asking the police just about their input regarding um we typically ask for like circulation comments but maybe in terms of the location of the property comes

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into play when we consider the use in relation to um their capacity as um as a police department. Next we look at you have three fire stations. It's 100% volunteers and you have 50 plus members. during our

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outreach um we heard a lot from residents as well as from the fire department that um there's currently a critical need for a facility or a satellite facility near North Village. Um a lot of the items that a lot of the things we heard were that a lot of the

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firefighters did not live near that area and it would takes a significant amount of time to get to that area. So in the sense of safety for the community, we think looking into something like that in the future would uh definitely help the fire department as well as the community.

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Also, um the fire department brought up a great point, especially for at this board or even the zoning board when considering height. There's 105 ft ladder and that should be something we're cognizant of when we look at the heights of the buildings. It's not necessarily saying the height of the building, but also things like setbacks

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or some kinds of obstacles that could keep the fire department from getting up to the building. I've seen issues where, you know, there's parking decks and then the building and the parking deck really limits the ability for the fire department's ladder to get to the top of those windows um to really safely uh get

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to residents who are in need. Next, 1500 ambulance squad calls. This is from 2024. Um this is staff from there. We're working on getting some more recent information. Um it's notable that most of your ambulance are paid and

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volunteer. So it's a mix of both. And then finally we have a here we have a shared um regional communications and court services. And this is used to optimize municipal facility efficiency and lower capital burdens. Um this is shared with Sparta, Franklin,

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Ogdensburg, Stanh Hope and Hamburg. feel like that just skipped forward. Okay, so community facilities. The key recommendations that we have here are um to kind of summarize what we've went over, Sparta should establish a

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formal ADA transition plan. We think that's incredibly crucial, especially when we heard from the stakeholders in the senior community. Um, we should utilize the police incident baseline in site plan reviews. Um, we should mitigate the impacts of deferred capital projects through grants and continually

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explore shared service to drive down costs. Next, we're going to go into your recycling element, >> Lindsay. >> Yeah. Do you want to complete the the community facilities before we go into recycling? This way, you know, everybody

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can kind of stay on point. >> Yeah, we'll go back here. >> So, um yeah, this way it'll also be easier for you to get back to slides that people may want to reference. >> Yeah. >> Um so, I'm going to bring it up to the board for comments and questions. Brian, we're going to start with you if you don't mind.

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>> All right. Um first of all, um I want to say thanks to the to the mining site plan subcommittee. I know we got a few people out there in the audience for for what you've done. There's a lot of good work. I I like the things that you you you called out that the need for a Northern Village Fire Station, uh the

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community center and and potential reopening of of White Lake. That's all all good stuff. Um I actually had a lot of questions and you answered a lot of them in the presentation. So, let me just go to the punchlines of it. Um when when I looked

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at the um I guess first of all does Sparta have like a facilities manager or facilities administrator and has that person had a chance to look at this just to make sure that they're in sync have we reached outside of the >> so during our so with this draft we have

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not circulated it basically subcommittee and planning board or who has seen this ahead of this meeting um during our stakeholder meeting though we did meet with various stakeholders. So like rec uh recreation department, we met with people there. Um so one of those things

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also notable is you know like many other departments they're requesting you know an audit of their staff to make sure that they have enough staff to cover the shifts to cover the activities and things like that. So while not presented in this presentation, we do say in the

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element that doing audits and making sure you know things like field time is there are do we have enough fields, right? Is there issues with scheduling? And we think that those kind of internal reviews will be really valuable to determine, you know, what Sparta needs in the future and how your budget should

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look into these changes and this investment into the community. One one thing I will say is this is all new to me and so I looked at a couple other towns and see what they had in terms of facilities. >> Sure. >> And most of them had like one or two pages. So this is a a really

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comprehensive well done element. Um >> thank you. It was a lot of the subcommittee um did a really great job of helping us get the information especially like I we have that note about uh White Lake Beach and and um the importance of possibly looking into that

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reopening and you know without the subcommittee's knowledge of Sparta we wouldn't have known that. So while we put it all together a lot of the work was from the subcommittee. Uh just a couple questions just um when I when I go to the recommendations um the first

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one was would direct the planning board and zoning board to utilize the 39,000 incidents. I'm not sure how we would do that is and and I guess the word d to direct who's who's directing who is it to me I I I think what what I heard in

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the presentation was you know look for ways to give consideration to these as opposed to direct somebody. So >> yeah, I think >> I think that's probably better better wording a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Um and again that the concept was there. >> Yeah, it's it's definitely leaning into

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the help from all of the stakeholders in the community when we do these reviews and not just um you know planning engineering is great but also how it's going to affect you know the police department, the fire fire department as well is really in it's really valuable information as well. Yeah, one one one

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other comment is, you know, when I looked at the uh there was a lot of good forward looking objectives um with the police and the fire department, there wasn't much there in terms of the ambulance squad. >> Would it make sense? I know we got we got agent population. We've got uh u some some affordable housing coming in

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to to put something there. Maybe, you know, periodically look at all emergency services. Absolutely. >> And add add the ambulance squad to that. >> Kind of do periodic audits of your emergency services. You know, in fact, the emergency, you can almost do those with every re-examination just so it doesn't get left out. >> Yeah,

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>> it's probably a quick look >> for sure. >> Um the other thing, um was was the fields um in terms of the artificial field versus uh the natural field. >> Um I know there's a lot of lot of different views on this.

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>> Oh, yeah. and and when I read the um the recommendation, it was almost leading >> and and and again, we're looking this is this is not just what we know today, but what are we looking for 20 years from now? >> Mhm. >> So, you know, I I'd almost think it almost be better to to word it in a way

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that said, you know, look at look at what the life cycle is, which which you did. Yeah. >> But then look at, you know, what are the options without calling this one's better or that one's better. Let leave that to the experts in the study, but just >> you look at the options, >> but you know, know it's coming, but make

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that part of a re and I'm not even sure, you know, from a from a planning board perspective. Is that us? Is that the recreation committee uh uh department? Is that the town council? >> I'm I'm I wasn't sure how what to do with that recommendation. >> Yeah. Um, so fields in most

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municipalities are pretty controversial whether it's natural turf, lights, no lights. Um, so it's definitely something we try to handle with a little bit of sensitivity. I think in terms of saying specifically to go return to natural uh

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surfaces, maybe it's looking at the technology of fields and seeing what is the best technology, right? Because that's always going to be evolving whether it's, you know, sod or it's natural grass or, you know, whatever. Um, I think as a town making your best decision for your youth, right, and for

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like the the life cycle of the field is most important. >> Yeah. >> And then and then the last one, um, I apologize. I, you know, had these, um, >> in the writeup you mentioned, you know, a re re-evaluation of of reopening White Lake down the road.

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>> Um, don't want to lose that. You know, right now the money's not there. 20 years from now, it may be. >> Yeah. >> I think that should be a specific recommendation added to the list. Yeah. >> Okay. And that's it. Thank you. Great job. >> Thank you very much. >> I'll pick up with your last one with the White Lake. And

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>> Ernie, can you please use the mic? Thank you. >> I moved it up so you can see the >> screen. Um, yeah, that's, you know, that's something we really don't don't want to lose. And, you know, I know I think one of the reasons it was it went to the Y at one point. Yeah. um and and

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then they became not interested in it. But that may be something to partner with Lake Mo on uh because uh lifeguards is an issue and they have a very robust lifeguard program with you know so many beaches and and a director and everything else and a waterfront

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director and that may be a good uh you know public private partnership uh for that lake as well because that's something that they know how to do. >> Absolutely. Um uh as as far as the I I I also noticed that the discussion on

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artificial turf, you know, the one thing I I I notice about Sparta's athletic fields when I when I travel around the state of New Jersey, um the quality of the turf is outstanding. And um and in in talking to the guys from from the parks and the and actually

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the even the retired parks director, one of the things that's helped them is is having one or two artificial fields that they can put people on in the early season and get them off the grass so they don't rip it up and tear it up. And the same thing with the late uh the late

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fall when when the grass is more susceptible. So I I think there's again it's probably left to to the experts in in parks and recreation as to what the right balance is. I I I think it's good to have both. Um but um you know there

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there's there's benefits there's obvious benefits both ways and uh I think we leave that to the as Ron said to the to the experts to uh to make that determination and uh and proposal. Um, and then my last comment is the uh just, you know, I just want to make sure

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everyone's aware the Amode squad is is not a township department. >> It's a standalone organization. Um, and that's that was made necessary because when they went to paid >> u the only way they could do that was to was to be on their own. So we we do have

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uh you know limited direction towards that towards an import towards what they do. Um, you know, but they they do an outstanding job and I think it was it was it was a great idea for them to go to that that hybrid because I know when when I was a police officer, it was

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sometimes tough during the day to get uh a full squad and especially if you needed a second ambulance where now they have at least [clears throat] two paid two page uh ambulances in service during the day. >> Yeah. >> In business time. So, >> um anyway, those are uh those are my

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comments. Yeah, we'll definitely put a note in that as well because I think that's important. >> Can I can I jump in real quick? >> Yeah, because it's it's just kind of food for thought and thinking about the history of White Lake and I brought this up that you know I grew up going there as a child. Even my stepfather used to scuba dive in White Lake.

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>> Um and at one point it was private. You had to have know the the guy across the street to get access to it. >> And um but it's it all faded away. But then we built North Village. So, are there enough residents in the North

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Village area to have memberships? Because again, if you're a child, you can walk to the beach. >> Just food for thought. >> So, [clears throat] studying that >> or even looking into um if there's potential grants, right, for you know,

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because if it's could be, you know, a community resource in some way. >> Yeah. Sorry, just so Brian, that's a great point. And actually those were discussions that also um that came up a couple years ago and even the thought of opening it up for let's say water like

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you could bring your canoe there, you could fish there because the lifeguards were were a big issue. There's also an easement issue that goes with that property that they were trying to work through at one point. So maybe that's something that can be taken back up again. But even if if we could just get

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it, you know, work in the future because it is a tremendous asset. Um the water is crystal clear. >> It's beautiful. >> Yeah. And it gives people it's a great it's a great space. But I think um I think that's something that's really good. I think we just from a land use

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side have to look at um some of those issues. And to Ernie's point, lifeguarding is very tough. I know at one point they they the rec department worked with the YMCA to handle and process all of the registrations, but I believe because it's not really a YMCA

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asset, it sort of I was told sort of fell short a little bit, but something to bring back. Good points. >> Janette, um Ernie and Ron covered everything that I um had questions about. Um the EMTs

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turf. Yes, I I was around when um it was such a controversy with people wanting turf and then it was voted down and then they finally got it. So, that is going to be a touchy uh subject. >> Um and then White Lake again, my kids

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grew up going there and swimming there and it's such a great asset like Christine said that we definitely need to make that um a priority. It would be a shame not to use it. That's it. That's all I had.

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>> Thank you. And and great job. >> Thank you everybody. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> So I obviously agree White Lake big asset. I think um in the master plan maybe it should also because it's really fantastic. You mentioned all these spaces. I know the recck department just

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recently I think it was last year they worked with Jean they did this huge inventory of all the recreational spaces. And I think sometimes when we think about adding additional recreational spaces, we forget about all the things that we could still do with

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the spaces that we have. I would love to see that reflected here. You know, we don't have to necessarily go out and find more spaces, right? I mean, if that happens, great. But I think there's a lot of things that we could do with the spaces that we have like White Lake,

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like the Glenn, like Station Park. Um, and I think that if we look at at that, I think that's important, too. And maybe that should be in here. Like, okay, like like taking a look at the spaces we have to figure out, you know, um, if you guys remember up at White Lake Field forever,

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that track only went halfway around. And when we were on the council, the question was, why does this thing go halfway around? Like, this makes no sense. Why would we have a place that a thing that only goes halfway around? And our own DPW department finished that. So, there's a lot of things that we could do internal where we don't need to

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go out and get a crew, you know, hire all this external stuff. There's a lot of things like that. Look at the benefit. Um, I walk almost every day at 6:30 in the morning up there. That place has people way before I get there and into the night when I go to my grandchildren's um games and stuff like

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that. People are constantly walking around there. So, things like that. I'd like to see that here. Like do a periodic intros almost like an introspect. Yeah. >> Um, in the Glenn, let's get some of the trails back. Um, you know, things like that. So, I think that would be

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>> that would be good if you're looking to Ernie's point 20 years out, right? Um, the other thing is I think when you mention the fire department satellite location on the other side, um, I think it's important to also perhaps include

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the police department over there. Um, the other thing is if that building is leveraged properly, it could also serve as a backup dispatch center. >> Um, the other thing that's important about doing that is homeowners actually

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o that live over there and I know because I've I've dealt with them and tried to help them and the managers had to help them before. you know, with your homeowner's insurance, a lot of times it's based off of what is your proximity to a fire hydrant or your proximity to

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whatever. And many times letters had to be written for people that lived over by the homestead and over by that area because it's so far away. Um, but I think also for police and again to be able to build out and have our own backup system over there. I think maybe

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that it should just be expanded to maybe be emergency services, not just the fire department. >> Yeah, that's a great idea. We just heard it directly from the fire department during stakeholders. So that's why it probably is focused on them. But I think adding all services is especially we

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recommended looking at the police and where your calls are coming generating from and seeing where locations maybe need to be for a substation. So, I think that that area in general having an emergency services facility would make a lot of sense, >> right? Like, so, um, that's my take on

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that one. Um, on page eight, I just had a question. Does in looking at the district's long long range facility plan. Um, does does this information So, I see the student information and the projected jump and

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everything. And my question is this had to have been done before the affordable housing component was finalized, right? So >> yeah, we haven't even seen the housing. >> That's what I'm saying. So these numbers are I just want to be clear, these

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numbers do not include the influx that will be coming with the additional affordable housing units. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah, we have we don't know anything about the housing element at this point or what is being um proposed

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or what is what the developers who challenged what their proposals are. We were not aware of any of that. >> Okay. Um [snorts] the other thing I had a question about was um VOTE. So it just seemed kind of to me that VOTE was like,

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"Oh yeah, and we have VOTE, but we also have a charter school over there." Mhm. >> So, there's a middle school charter school also on Route 94. >> And so, I think that, you know, I I don't know, maybe I just missed it, but it's >> Is it there? The technical school

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>> 225 students. >> Okay. So, um Okay, so it's in there. Good. Okay. The other thing that I would recommend putting into a forward view, because I've heard this a lot from um EMS in the past

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is because of our our proximity to emergency services, they really need a helellipad somewhere. So in the winter time, and Ernie, I'm going to defer to you on this one. A helipad so that in the middle of the winter time when there's snow and ice and everything else

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on the ground or even other times, they have a space where they can land a helicopter safely. Um, not in snow, not in whatever something that's maybe heated or whatever it might be. But that's something I've heard repeatedly and I think that should be included in

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this especially as our numbers are getting bigger and bigger to maybe look at expanding the the facilities that we have. And I think one big area there is um he helipads >> a perfect use for the clover leaves up

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here on the bypass one of those areas in between. There's a lot of land there. I mean you know 50 year more 75 years ago they used to put gas stations there. >> Yeah. >> You know, but I I know we don't want to do that, but it's probably a great place

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right in the middle of town. Mhm. >> Uh to Christine's point, one of the problems with the hel the helipads is or the medevac is they generally use the Milwaukee Avenue field >> which disrupts phys classes. Uh

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>> you know youth sports games, you know, um it could be a little hectic for the firemen because they got to now keep the kids back who get excited about that. having a dedicated helipad in the middle of town, especially in bad weather when they're still on the ground. What they end up doing now is using the bypass and

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closing the road down. >> Okay. >> So, I mean, you're closing a major artery down of traffic to be able to put a helicopter, you know, down and transfer a patient uh to put a get maybe the state to allow us to put a helad in one of those areas which is very central to the to the town.

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>> Yeah. Um it that would probably be a great location and it's it's state land. It's not uh not being used. >> So >> yeah. >> Yeah, I think that's great. Thanks for >> Sure. And then my my last thing is just to jump onto what they were saying about

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turf. I feel like this comment to uh you know look at it and look at replace like removing it. I think that's putting the cart before the horse. So, I do think that needs to be rewarded because it remembering the when everybody was sharing their feelings about getting

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turf here, um the whole thing was our kids are going to be playing on turf wherever they go. >> So, it's important because things do react differently. Balls take different hops, cleats behave differently. So, we felt it's important for them to at least be able to practice and be whatever.

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That doesn't mean every field's a turf field at all, but it meant providing them a place where they could practice so when they get to all these other schools that have turf everywhere, they at least understand that things are going to be a little bit different. >> So I I just agree with I think what I

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heard and I'm having a little trouble hearing over here, but I think what I basically heard was don't make the statement look at replacing it. It's make the statement look at the best solutions out there rather than that this thing is this sort of reads to me well if it's done put grass back.

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>> So >> got it. >> That's it. >> All right. I'll try to be quick. I'm coming at this from a totally different perspective. Nice job to date so far. So good. It's very nice. Very good >> and informative. I'm coming at this from a pure financial and um economic

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perspective and maybe just clarification. So as all these elements are being de um generated, developed, looked at, at what point does the does the master plan go through a kind of like a financial test, an economic and

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feasibility analysis study? Is it during each phase as you're doing these elements or is it once you pull a final draft then you put that through that financial uh stress test? >> So there's a couple things. Um, we do have an economic development element.

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Um, but I don't think that's necessarily hitting on your question. Um, I think overall when we look in like kind of the introduction, the way we're kind of doing this is we're doing all of the elements, but in the background we have an introduction. We have all that information and that is what is kind of

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giving you a holistic look at the entire comprehensive master plan and it would be in there where you look about capital improvements. Um, we talk about we can talk about, you know, grant funding and all the different opportunities for uh funding and, you know, whether it's

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planning for your budget, but we don't actually dive into the direct numbers. We would I I don't think you'd want us to put information in there. >> And I think it's important because it's great we're putting all this effort into it, but it it's got to be it still has to be practical, absolutely

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>> financable, investable. It has it has to be achievable over a period of X to Y time frame and it can't just be on hopes that community grant programs are available or some type of financial assistance and and the like are there there has to be just like you just like

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you do a business plan you have to you have to put a proform behind it to justify and and then see if it's sustainable and and it's scalable. Yeah. >> And that and that's that's the way I'm viewing this is from a scalable perspective. Um, if you if this is going

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to be a lot of broad strokes, my other comment here, if this is a lot of broad strokes, we want X, Y, and Z. I think then we should not be so specific and identifying, I like the the turf field conversation. I'm supporting the comments that were made earlier. I mean,

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if we're going to say broad, this is kind of the vision, this is what we want, then let's keep the recommendations broad, not specific. >> Got it. >> All right. And then um the other thing is when you look at all these breakdowns, they all have a staffing they all need a staffing plan which goes

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right back into the financial uh and feasibility study and plan. You know, looking at police incidents, >> I'm a little questionable about that, but I understand. >> Yeah. >> You know, to look at that data and what's that data telling you to try to accommodate it. It's it's a matter of

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then at that point we're sub you the numbers you just presented we're short staffed as it is >> yes >> by by x number of police officers. So as we're developing this plan there's got to be a staffing plan whether it's for recreational

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>> community fire police etc that as we're scaling that over a 20-year window there's a staffing plan and a budget kind of and it's and it's a forecast. It's not it's not hard numbers, but it's it's something that you're putting you're putting pencil to the paper and

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trying to really do some supportive math that makes this feasible and yeah >> attainable. >> Yeah. And the idea is, you know, when we go to a lot of the stakeholder meetings, a lot of it is, oh, we're short staff. We don't have enough people. And we think a lot of it has to do with we need

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to do an internal audit to see if you really truly are short staff, right? It's easy to feel like, you know, maybe you don't have enough help, but maybe it's just the resources aren't being used correctly or people aren't being used correctly in terms of, you know, um maintaining fields or things like that.

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So, I think to say make a statement say, "Oh, you need more staff here." We think that there's more study that needs to be done before saying, you know, you're short staffed, right? you had that FBI study that says you should have 45 um police officers, but when looking at, you know, the number of incidents, where

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are the incidents happening, at what times of day, maybe it's looking at, you know, the shifts and do you have enough people on that shift or maybe there's not enough people on that shift. So, I think it's kind of looking at um that information and making determinations off of that, not just making, you know, just making a a rash decision that,

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okay, we have to add more people here because we feel short staffed. >> I understand. I think someone mentioned the uh the uh housing element. >> Yes. >> I think that is kind of goes handinand glove with all these other elements because of the impact of the housing and the projected or the

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the real or perceived impacts that that additional whether it's from affordable housing or other is impacting growth in that particular area. It kind of dovetales and crosses all these other elements. Yes. So putting that less I think maybe that should also kind of

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blend in and be considered. >> Yeah, >> even some baseline to get you >> absolutely >> kind of baseline as you're developing these. That's just my recommendation. I've done these in the past myself and >> yeah, I agree with you. Um when it is available, we would love to be able to

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incorporate it and be able to, you know, there's other elements that are going to rely heavily on what is going on in there. you know, like your land use element where you're looking at the uses and you're forecasting a buildout analysis, like that's going to be a really valuable piece of information. So, I think once that is finally um you

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know, adopted, I think that's that'll be crucial. And maybe even this ends up like especially community facilities maybe that ends up being amended because we realize you know the numbers that were projected by the board of ed maybe they're changing because of you know we use the Rucker study to determine how

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many school children are going to come from these and um from these I'm assuming there's probably going to be one or two projects um and I think having those numbers and making assumptions on that and utilizing the board of ed information will be critical

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right so maybe something continues to work or maybe something doesn't continue to work and you know we need that information as well >> and and I think that data could be valuable. I mean there's 10 20 year trends you could get out of whether it's the school board or or the or the township budgets and and and the like

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that can help support that. You'd be surprised. I've been looking at that >> and it's you know you look back 10 years from X to Y and what you perceive or you think is happening the numbers are a little bit different than what you [clears throat] would think. So, but this is a great start. I just want to

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compliment your hard your work and efforts on this and obviously the committee um and everybody that's involved. So, thank you. >> Sorry to interrupt. And just to clarify, we are not adopting this this evening, right? This is a presentation. We're taking your input. We're going to take it back. We're going to add things. We're going to tweak things. Um so, all

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of this is going to be included as well. So, I didn't want anyone to think this is the end of this element. >> No, we get a second bite at the apple when the the entirety of the document gets adopted. >> Yes. Yes. Can I go? >> Can I just I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No, no, no. That's okay. >> Just if if if there is going to be a

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second bite, maybe just have someone within the municipality look at this to make sure that they agree with all the data that's being presented. I think it would be a great idea to recirculate it to the members of the stakeholder meetings like when we broke out into smaller like just one person be like, "Hey, >> whoever wants this light reading

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[laughter] responsibility, >> there was someone that was responsible for handling facilities at town hall. Um, so maybe you could reach out to them. They work over at the DBW." >> Okay. >> So, um, maybe just want to reach out to them. >> I could send them both elements then.

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>> What's that? >> I could send them both elements then. the recycling element as well. >> Yeah, because that's where you're going to be dealing with your your recycling as well and some of your debris removal and and all of that kind of stuff. >> And also just um I was curious so I reached out and got the number. So just

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so you know for because I you just said you wanted an updated number. Yes. >> For 2025 EMS from the ambulance squad, the calls are 1595. >> So this way at least you have that number to to I know you said you wanted it. So >> yeah, slightly higher than the 1500 from

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so the increase. >> Yeah, >> Lindsay, I'm sorry. I just have one other question. Um from one of those stakeholder meetings that we had, we had breakout groups. >> One of the things that um somebody I don't remember who it was brought up was

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um community facilities and you know taking more advantage of of you know how we use them. and they've brought up things like music festivals, fairs, you know, having um uh food trucks come in, things like that. Are we incorporating

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that anywhere? Uh, you know, when we talk about facilities and how we can uh use them. >> Sure. So, in the community facilities element, we do um speak about a actual community facility, a community center. um based on a lot of the stakeholders

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what we heard as well is they did not want a sole senior center. They liked the idea of kind of the integrated classes where they were taking a cooking class with some younger people and they really appreciated that. So in there we do have a recommendation of looking into some kind of community facility where

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things like that could could happen. Whether you know you have that parking lot and you have your your food truck festivals or your music festivals or where internally maybe you have you know some kind of holiday market or things like that that can like really incorporate people in the community kind

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of being social and being together and enjoying you know spending time with your neighbor. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, Miss Danbar. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um we've covered a lot of ground here and this report is is a

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wonderful educational tool. So, thank you. I enjoyed reading it. Some things that I just want to bounce thoughts off of are um the uh the cost of some of these suggestions as you mentioned and uh I was at a meeting

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recently at another township and they were discussing the need for a firet truck >> and those are almost a million dollars now for a fire truck. So, um I know that um as we expand development, we need more services. Um but we have to be

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safe, but these are things that need to be um taken into account uh before we make these decisions and expanding development. I think um I like the idea of shared services

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um and a dispatch center. Um and um then Ernie had met uh mentioned a heliloport and location for a heliloport. I'm wondering um um some of you may know we do have a heliloport over in Lafayette.

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If um you know perhaps that would be um people could be made aware of that and we could share that area that was part of a green acres uh project um a couple years ago. So um just um up 15 a little

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ways uh and over towards Warbass Junction area there is a Hiloport access for medevac uh there. Um of course I'm thinking about the turf turf you expected that probably you know the turf

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issue. Um there's a lot of new research that's coming out of Europe. Um uh Denmark, Scandinavian countries, uh that use, uh have tried using turf fields and there's a lot of uh negative uh

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information about the health related impacts um for youngsters as well as um the soil and the disposal costs that are involved. So I do think we need to keep a close eye on that and we trying to do that in the

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environmental commission. Um um so those are just some of the thoughts that I wanted to share with you. Thank you again. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> Mike. So, after listening to everything we've

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been talking about, I think we do need to prepare for the future and have an annex building um to service the North Village in that area of town. Uh it may not be a problem today, but 20 years

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from now will be. And only uh perfect practice makes perfect. So, uh what we prepare for today will be ready for tomorrow. Uh the other thing I think is wonderful um

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talking about the growth of White Lake, but nobody's mentioned anything about and you see this when you travel south, um a handicap fishing dock or a fishing pier. And maybe that's something that can be incorporated and done with

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donations so it's not a huge cost to the town. Uh you know DPW work can help too. I mean there's boy scouts that can help uh develop these areas. We have a trout stream. There's nowhere for a handicap person to pull up that enjoyed fishing

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at one time of his life or her life and can uh utilize these facilities in that respect. So, you know, it's something to think about and um you know, it's not a far reach. I don't think you know, donationwise, you know,

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there's I seen many walks done, people have donated, they have their personal placards put on the walks, you know, recognizing their efforts, too, I think is very doable, you know. Um

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and uh that's, you know, all I have really for this uh >> Thank you. to kind of piggyback off your comment, one of the things we do touch on ADA accessibility. And I think one of the things when we think about ADA accessibility, we don't think about other um disabilities recognized by ADA

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beyond physical handicaps, right? So, we think about people in our community who maybe are on the spectrum. And I think one of those items that I I don't know if we touched too deeply on it is looking into spaces that are accommodating to everyone, especially who experience the environment um from a

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sensory standpoint a little differently than the rest of the community. Um I work with another community where we took an old fire trailer um and we converted it into a sensory space. So when the community had a tree lighting or there were fireworks, the trailer was

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brought in and it was kind of like a safe space. um for you know people on the spectrum but there's also a correlation between some of the soothing things um between people on the spectrum as well as those starting to suffer with dementia and Alzheimer's. So there's kind of you know you find spaces like

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that that maybe it's in your when we have that community facility plan you think about things like having that room where lights are dimmable sound is a little quieter and you can think about things like that as well for you know accessibility purposes.

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Can we add that in? >> Yeah. >> Can you put a sensory space? >> Like whatever you did. The trailer. I think you said it's a trailer. Is that what it is? >> It's a trailer. Yeah. They repurposed a trailer and in there they have dimmer lights. They have noise cancelling headphones. Um we designed it in our in

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our offices for them. And um it's kind of like this is kind of like my passion project as well is uh is designing spaces for people on the spectrum and making sure that we can you know it helps if you have a sibling who's on the spectrum, right? and that child doesn't have to miss out on opportunities as

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well. And the parents can go to a place and go there with confidence knowing that, you know, if the child is having, you know, a meltdown or having, you know, having a moment, they can go into that space and, you know, it it's nice for the whole family. >> I don't know how anyone else feels, but

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I would love to see that added >> um as something to be looked at as expansion. I didn't want to interrupt, but I just think that's fascinating. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Really great. I think as as especially as like numbers um rise with people um being diagnosed um being on the spectrum, I think it's something that's

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kind of gonna start being critical to communities to think about. >> Bill, I had the opportunity to serve on the committee, so I had my input there, so I don't really have questions, but um I think you guys all made some really good

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points to add to this. Um, and just to add a little more to some things that were said and the reason for baselines, as Chris started to bring up, more development equals more calls. And that was brought up particularly by the police department. And I think the the reason for the baseline is they want us

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to recognize that. And then when they're saying more development, it's not just um, uh, commercial, it's housing, it's, you know, whatever it is, it's going to result in more calls. And even if they're people are just coming to work and they're not in the community, they service those people whether it's

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through the EMS or uh the police and everybody who travels through. So they wanted us to keep that in mind and they both mentioned the need for an annex. Um the other thing Lindsay brought up that I just want to elaborate on is the 105

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foot fire truck. Um we do have one and I think there's only one other in Newton. I mean, I could be corrected on that, but um we have one and what they said was this 105 uh foot fire truck is capable of putting out a fire for three

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stories. It can do four stories, but the the scenario changes because to do four stories, they actually have to drop the line above the building and it becomes a more dangerous type of situation. So, just to put that into perspective of what that means for, you know, the one

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truck. So, um, >> you said it's three three stories. >> They can do three stories comfortably, but when you go to a fourth story, they have to go tackle the fire from above. They have to drop a line. Um, what that means, I don't know. I assume they drop a guy down. Jenny was in that meeting,

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too. I don't know. Did you get the same impression? It's a person going down, which becomes very much more dangerous. >> Other apparatus like ladder. >> Yeah. Everything. And that's all we have. we have one and then there's only one other. So if it's a large fire it

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becomes a um a problem. Um and Lafayette they said was short staffed which was the real Yeah. >> Well this is a great point. I mean are you know Chief ODM Chief McCarrick and others you know across all the services

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looking at this now are they waiting to see the final draft product? Are we soliciting input >> tomorrow? We can circulate it tomorrow because I'd prefer them to see and get their input. Um, so it can be incorporated, right? We don't want to give it to them like the ninth hour. Um, given >> I think soliciting their input now and,

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you know, getting her feedback [snorts] now is critical. >> Yeah, agree. >> Um, and then just just to touch upon something that you triggered, you know, when you mentioned development, the perception everybody goes right to the development and commercial industrial. It's not >> everything that's in this element and everything that's going to be in this

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master plan is a form of development. Whether you're open space, recreational, trails, etc. So that's all forms of different types of development. >> So is traffic, >> streets, roads, infrastructure, energy, transportation, all that.

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>> All of it. >> All those elements are all different types or forms of growth and development. You know, call it growth and development. whatever taglines they they I know they put sexy words next to them once in a while when they update these things, but I think it's important

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that we all look at it that way cuz whatever we're whatever we're trying to promote or try and expand and and and and bring to the community, it it's going to take some capital and some some improvement work and effort in form of

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quote unquote development or the like. >> Okay, any other questions or comments from the board? >> [clears throat] >> So, with uh having been capable of giving my own input um on on the subcommittee level and uh with with

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Lindsay um in in passing with with uh putting putting all of this together, um in hearing all the comments that that you guys have made, um one of the things that that kind of stood out to me, so when we were talking about um baselines

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and cost and and things of that nature, Um I also want to want to note that even though this does take that into consideration, the heavier lift on that side is going to be with regard to the ordinances that are involved in in you

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know giving this document its teeth. So when when we look at how how those facilities come together, how you know how things get designed, how all of these audits and and so on should be performed that that's definitely going to be more in my opinion on an ordinance

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level because that's going to give the actual information in terms of how these things come about. And then of course we we look to council, right, to say okay, you know, these this is the intent and this is the thought process for the next

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20 years. And as much as we would like to say we have crystal balls, we don't. We do know that things are changing. We do know the housing element is is not finalized yet. We do know that there are going to be more residents within the confines. We do know that the numbers are growing. And as all of that happens,

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we look to the council with the hope and anticipation that financially we get to the point where we're capable of supporting the growth that's going to happen on that side. Now, whether that be, you know, to to write some of the

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the ship in within the confines of the municipality um or or or looking at how monies are are being spent there. Audits don't just need to be in terms of personnel and and you know how um how these things are structured. Audits

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should also happen within the confines of of this building and how people are being utilized and how and how you know um efficiency is is moving across the board because a lot of the issues that we run into when it comes to

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applications complaints about um applications not moving the way that they should or people not getting information available. How long did we have to wait to get zoning maps posted to a a website? Right? But we're still having technology issues. So all of

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these things we we kind of look to the council and to to the people in this building, not saying that people aren't doing an amazing job because they are. Um it it's just that when we talk about audits and analysis and looking at all this stuff, it just brings to mind that

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for the master plan to be effective, this building needs to be effective. So, we're hoping and looking to council to to, like I said, give the ordinances the teeth that that this document needs in order to be able to move forward. Um, also, >> and that's a good point. And in order to

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get to that point, when this thing gets drafted, you have to do a gap analysis. You have to do conflict analysis. You have to see what ordinances support this current plan. You cannot put the cart before the horse and or pick. First off, this thing has to be broken down into priority.

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and priority maybe a phased approach, you know, like no different. You're going to lay this out over a two, three, fourphase program, but all that preliminary upfront work, it needs to be layered into this. Whether it's economic financial compliance

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ordinances, you know, gap in gap analysis, all that should be done now because just just the level of effort to get that right sized has to be supported. And if if if 80% of what we're talking about is in conflict right now, there's a hell of a lot of work to

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do to get our orders. >> As much as I agree with you on all of that, >> the unfortunate circumstance is that takes money and and that's something that that right now we don't have available to us. >> And and this township in this building to defend it a little bit and it's not

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to get into a debate, the call it efficiencies inefficiencies they are really strapped here with resources. This is a understaffed understaffed township building here right now. All right. >> I literally said the same thing. >> I mean, I'm I'm on board with it. And

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that's that's the level of effort it's going to take here, right? I mean, you can't ask anything more from what we're when we're people really squeezing tight. Now, >> I I I get it. So basically all I'm saying is that in order for us to to

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provide what's being asked right in terms of you know doing a deeper dive and getting more information and and pulling pulling all of that together you know I mean the subcommittee has done an amazing job in in dealing with stakeholder groups in in getting

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together in extra meetings in in doing subgroups where where they're getting together trying to do parse out as much as possible So, we're we're just we're we're at a point now where um we we we need help and you know, we're

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we're reaching out for it and we're we're hoping to get it. Um but, you know, I I don't want to see certain things be missed in these elements because we didn't have the facility to be capable of of grasping on to that

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when we had the opportunity. But the energy and vision that's being put into this, keep that momentum going. >> All right. Don't worry about the Don't worry about how we get there. The vision and the energy that you're doing here. It it's it it's it's very productive. I I could This is the furthest I've seen a

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document like this go over a long period of time to see something like that. So, I am I am on board with what you're saying there, Celeste. >> I appreciate that. Um, also in saying that, so when we talk about facilities, um, I I met with parks and wreck and one of the things that they had talked about

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and yes, okay, we we talk about people being understaffed and so on, but they specifically spoke about um maintenance, right? So, we want fields, we want trails, we want all of these wonderful things, but we don't have the manpower

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to maintain it all in in, you know, a a timely fashion. So when we um when we look at those things in terms of of audits, I really think um spec specifically with community facilities, um parks and wreck should, you know, get

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a get a you know, a little bit of extra attention when it comes to um maintenance and and the facility that they have available to them to maintain all of these things that we're anticipating um you know, moving forward with uh in the future. Um

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that all having been said, thank you. >> I have one more one more one more thing as I was I think it's important. So um and I just recalled it when uh we were meeting with the police um they were saying the nature of the calls is significantly changing and how they are

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spending much more time now on mental health calls. the number of mental health calls and the time spent. They can spend six, seven, eight hours on a mental health call taking that >> patrolman off the the street. And um I think they said they're usually two of

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them. So just, you know, keep that in mind too that the nature of things is also changing particularly with they said after COVID, you know, you could see some of the mental health issues and the aging population they're doing a lot more with the aging in mental health calls. So just to throw that in. Yeah, thank you for making that

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point because I remember us talking about that at length at the uh at the subcommittee level. >> Can I make a can I ask a question? >> Yeah, sure. But I do want to open it to the public. >> I know. Just a question for Lindsay. So, for example, the master plan um I don't

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have my copy of the current master plan with me. So, apologies up front. Um but I don't think all of these elements are in our existing master plan right now. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. So my question is for this one in

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particular, what would be like outside? I I see this document not as being backed by an ordinance. I see this as being a guiding principles like these are the guard rails. These are the things because I don't think you could put an ordinance

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together, for example, because you can't say, well, if you put up a an annex fire truck or a EMS station, it has to look like this in this because you don't know where it's going. It just has to be over there somewhere on the other side of the rain railroad tracks in which case all

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the design is going to be tied to wherever it ends up right whatever zone or wherever it might be. So I guess to the point is hopefully some of these don't need that rigorous ordinance backup. So when we look at something

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like this one and this was my question to you. Do you see ordinances that need to be done to enforce the guard rails of this element? >> Um, so yeah, not not necessarily in a sense.

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Some of these items I think could be ordinance amendments in terms of adding things to say your site plan checklist, right? Maybe it's making sure that not just getting a letter saying the police department is okay with the, you know,

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it's going deeper into that, asking the police department to do kind of an inventory of that area and ensuring that they can service that area. So that would that would be where like the ordinance part comes in. For the most part, these two elements are really meant to be more inventories. They're

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meant to look at what you have almost as like a picture in time. This is what we have. this is what we were expecting and then when we look back on it you can see because you'll be doing re-exams right and in the re-exams you'll be able to look back on it and say okay this is what's changed since then and that's

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where you can start pulling ordinance or that's where you start determining you know some of the ordinance I mean the recycling element some of that information in there is in ordinances and there are some ordinances for the recycling element specifically that contradict so the amendments would be

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making sure that the ordinance or information on the website coordinates with the ordinances. That's where it wouldn't be ordinances like bulk requirements. >> Right. Well, that's what I'm saying. So, to me, in both of these elements, because neither one of these elements is in what we have right now. So, that's

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why I was trying to kind of get an idea to your point, Celeste. I know it need they need teeth behind them, but in order to move them forward, maybe some like these two just need guard rails refined versus ordinances that cost money and everything.

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>> Yeah. >> Or an ordinance amendment. It's still is still going to cost money, >> right? But that's why I was asking her, does she see that does she see this as being requiring a lot of ordinances? And if so, what? because I'm just trying to

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in my head visualize how would you put ordinances to any of this? >> No, any of these ordinances would be very minor amendments. Like I said, adding something in your site plan review section, adding something in, you know, your recycling section of your ordinance just to make sure it's coordinated. Nothing would be like a

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complete reworking of your ordinance because kind of based on what we've looked at within the within the town um and what is in your ordinances, we don't see the need to rewrite it based on your community facilities, right? We're not saying re reszone this area because you

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need parks and you need fields. We're not suggesting that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> So, that having been said, again, thank you to everybody on the subcommittee. Thank you to everybody on the board who just weighed in on this. And I'm going to open it to the public for any comments or questions on this particular

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section. >> Hi. Um there is in the 84 plan there is a section called community facilities plan element. There's land use circulation, housing, utility service, community facilities, recreation, conservation, storm water, energy and

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then implementation. So there is currently >> it's all it's it's not broken out like this. >> Yes. Yes, there are elements. So that's what I wanted to say. So what we're looking at now is one of I think nine >> elements. >> So these are little snapshots what

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Lindsay just said snapshots of an inventory of where we are right now. So we went and talked with I talked with a whole number of stakeholders. I talked with the chiefs. I talked with the EMS and the schools and got their input for

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Lindsay and the committee to form the specific elements that are related to those stakeholder inputs. And so that's what this is. So we may there may be a couple things like White Lake was missed. We added it in last week. Um but

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for the most part these are little pieces of what Sparta looks like right now. And then there's a separate part that is not what we're talking about yet and that's goals and objectives. And in those goals, those are the things that

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an application those are the things that when an applicant comes or an ordinance comes to the planning board, you're going to be looking and please correct me if I'm not stating this correctly, but those you're going to be looking at those things whether it's an application or an ordinance for consistency. and

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you're going to put it up against just like you do now the master plan document including and most importantly the goals and objectives based on the input of these little snapshot elements and so this is just a

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small part of a bigger document that is basically as Lindsay said it's a snapshot in time but it's also going to support then the important part which is the goals and objectives because it's based on the goals and objectives that you are going to have your ordinances

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and those ordinances are going to come from the committee in for in the form of recommendations and some of them are going to be for example the the first and I don't want to get ahead of myself but the or ahead of the committee but one of the elements

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is one of the or one of the goals based on what we've already had so we looked at 84 goals and we re revisited them to see what would be important now and for the most part we kept most of them.

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>> Yeah, a lot of them are still very much relevant. >> Um the objectives just are really what's going to change of how to achieve those goals, >> right? So as we put those together, that's the blueprint and this is an overused word for this but that's what it is. It's a blueprint on which you're

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going to base your elements. And we're also how you're going to look at the impact of a development, whatever that development is, in terms of the use of the resources, the impact on the schools, the use of the the impact on the infrastructure, and that's where the cost things come in. But that's not what

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this is about. This is about putting up the structure, the framework on which you're going to put your ordinances together. Maybe there's ordinances here that still work, but then maybe there are ordinances that need to change based on the input from the community on what

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they want to see for their town going forward for the next this document's 40 years old, for the next 20 years, let's say. Uh so, so when you're talking about cost of things and money for things and money for studies, that's not what this is about. This is about setting up the

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framework on which you make the decisions. Do we do a study? Where do we need a study? What information do we need to support new ordinances that are going to support the the master plan? So, I hope I'm not overstepping, but

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that's um that's my overall from the the comments that I'm hearing. >> Yeah. And and that's a good point. I mean, I think what would be helpful for the board here and also the public is an outline of the process. >> Okay. whether whether it's a flowchart,

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an organizational kind of flowchart just showing here here's the steps of how you do a master plan and then at what point are you starting to bolt on a little bit more aggressively the details behind them, right? And and I just heard the word blueprint. This is the blueprint,

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right? And then as you're building it, I think the sequencing and the steps would be important because the last thing I want to do is start hearing ordinances are going in for three of these things and we're not even conceptually there as a overall master plan document. So >> that's not even the role that we have.

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The role that we have is to take the input from the community to take the input from the professionals the the look at what things are right now and put those into the various elements and some of them are statutoily required. Right Lindsay? >> Yes. required to have

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>> and some are like the community facilities, recycling element. These are not required. Um but we think that they're important for the sense of having this moment captured, right? And understanding what is going on and what's affecting the remainder of the

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comprehensive master plan as well. >> This one is not required. And is the recycling one required? >> No. >> So neither one of these are required? >> No. >> Okay. um >> good ideas. I'm not when somebody's looking at our community, they're going

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to look at the master plan. This is these are the things that are going on in the community. >> Yeah. And the MLUL does say that these like there is sections in the MLUL how to do these sections, how to write them, what's expected of them. So although they're not required for a master plan, they have a whole list of other elements

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that you can do in coordination with the state requirements. So it's not like we're not just making this up to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't think anyone's saying that. We have circulation, land use, >> circulation, land use, um storm water or

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what is it the storm >> change, >> climate change, >> right? So >> the all these elements will come to you, your housing element, population. So I I think the what Mike said just to just to give that some credibility in the normal

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way people think. >> Yeah. >> Um I I I cannot stress I think that's important. I think at some point at some meeting or on a website somewhere or something >> the whole thing should be laid out for people so that they understand the amount of time and what goes on because

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in pretty much 99.9% of everybody's life you would start with goals and objectives on any project in the free world like really most of the projects right you are starting at the end point what is the goal why am I doing this what is the objective so I

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think people are confused used in following along right away, this is great stuff. But I think to Mike's point, if if [clears throat] you're not on a member of the planning board or you're not familiar with what a master plan is or you haven't seen one really, I think it would just be nice to have

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maybe just a piece of paper that's on the website. You don't have to do a whole thing, >> right? This would be fair. We do we do have a we do have a website that that that is out there um that that the public can you can uh can use and can view. And we did go over this when we

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started this the initial survey for for um for data for the master plan. Um so it it's is it helpful to revisit it? Sure it is. But to be fair if you did if you did in the past bring it back. >> This is the process that I've been know. >> Right. So in order master plan just

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Google Sparta master plan and it'll and it'll come up. It's not on, it doesn't live on the It's not hard, it's hard to find if it's there on the in the township website, but just Google Sparta master Sparta Township master plan and you'll find it and it's a very well um

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resourced uh site to go to and you can look at the old master plans and that might give you a better idea of what we're talking about. But both things are happening in tandem. So the elements are being worked on at the same time as the goals and the objectives are being worked on. We have the goals already. We're just working

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we're just working through them and Lindsay is working with the committee and the other professionals to put together the other um elements. So that's all I have. >> Thanks Jenny. Anybody else have anything to add?

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Hi, just a quick comment on uh artificial turf. [laughter] Are you surprised? >> Yeah. Um there's currently a bill uh before the state legislature um that wants proposes uh banning the use of

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green acres funds for uh artificial turf. And if you look at at the uh current research there there is a lot of detriments to artificial turf through the microlastics uh POS uh which are

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many of which are endocrine disruptors um and uh the use of the crumb crumb rubber infill made from uh recycled tires that contains those PAS uh chemicals. Um, also the disposal uh they

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uh typically age uh I think they the lifespan of artificial turf is 8 to 10 years. So they have to be torn up and uh either recycled which I don't think happens very often here. Um I think there's new technology that uh doesn't

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use crumb rubber infill but there's still uh a lot of detriments. I realize uh it extends playing time and you might think it it it might be viewed as a necessary evil. I understand that. Uh but um as as they age out, I would urge

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you to re uh re-examine uh replacing them with natural turf. I know many of us grew up in a time where there was no artificial turf and we survived quite well. So just uh something to keep in mind. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Uh I think we're ready to move on to recycling. >> All right, let me put the presentation. I'm getting really good at this. Okay, so um transitioning now to the

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recycling element. The core purpose here is to kind of align the local development review process with state environmental mandates. Um protect the public health. slide. >> We're looking at the facility still. >> There we go. >> There you go. >> Thank you. >> Protect public health, conserve natural

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resources, and integrate long-term waste diversions. >> That's a picture of trash. So, as Sparta's recycling programs, um, so the programs relies on a mandatory source separation for all residential, commercial, and institutional properties paired with single stream curbside

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collection for co-mingled containers and fibers. Compliance is backed by local enforcement and fines, which directly help fund the local program. So for non-residential properties, entities um must secure private hauling

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and submit annual recycling um tonnage reports. Crucially under development regulations, new construction projects must submit a formal recycling plan during site plan approval and a certificate of occupancy is withheld until a licensed recycling hauler contract is secured. I'm sure

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many of you guys have heard David and myself often bringing this up during site plan reviews to ensure that these developments are going with private haulers. Next is the 2025 tonnage metrics for residential recycling um diversion.

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In 2025, Sparta successfully diverted 1,33.93 tons from the waist stream with vegetative waste and paper products making up 46 and 25% of that total um respectively. This is heavily supported

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by the partnership with the Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority which provides access um which provides access to multimaterial recycling centers, free drop offs for electronics and textiles. household hazardous waste collection events and commercial

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composting facilities. So, construction and demolition uh waste and solid waste utilities. The state mandates require construction and demolition recycling for projects generating over 40 cubic yards. While Sparta currently relies on chapter 26

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soil and fill placement permits for controls, formalizing a standalone CND plan is a key next step. Uh financially, the solid waste utility operates as a self-liquidating fund with billing credits available for eligible senior citizens and veterans and we'll get into

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that a little bit more on this next slide. Um as we go into the solid waste utility finances. So, solid waste um utility manages funding services is mandatory for non-HOA residents um but

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you cannot opt out. But HOA residents can request to participate with written requests to the clerk, but must enroll for solid waste and recycling programs. You can't do one or the other. Um and cannot terminate an active municipal uh collection until the contract term has ended. Annual bills are issued in

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January, although they do come in um four installments, so you can do that seasonally with a 10-day grace period. Um un unpaid charges for 30 days will form will be a formal uh formal delinquency notice. And then finally, as we talked about those credits, the

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township does give a $25 available um credit for senior citizens and veterans. Next, we kind of just go into the recommendations here. So, strategic recommendations for recycling focus on four areas. Amending ordinance to incorporate a formal construction and

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demolition waste management plan. investigating community food scrap, organic waste processing partnerships. Um, which could also include developing a backyard composting initiative for food, lawn, and garden waste by providing educational materials through the township website, social media, and

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partnerships with the Sparta Public Library and the board of ed to provide info on how to begin and maintain backyard composting systems. Um, also investigate um also develop a digital reporting portal for annual recycling tonnage. provide update uh single stream

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sorting guides on the municipal website and review and update the availability and design of public recycling receptacles. Um, I know we also talked about in the recycling element, um, different kind of apps and different programs that residents could potentially have that help you understand, you know, the recycling

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processes, what days things are being, um, picked up, whether it's, you know, um, garbage or your recycling, um, or, you know, your Christmas tree pickup, things like that, um, are something things that we could look into to providing for residents. And that

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concludes the recycling element. Okay. Um before we move on to board, um so now that the professionals have heard both elements, is there anything that Dave specifically that you've heard

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that you'd like you'd like to add see um addressed? >> Uh just a couple of things. Number one, I think Lindsay and the committee did a great job quantifying all the township's assets, and I think the municipality should be very proud of all the assets that it's got its disposal. They're very

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blessed that way. The only thing I was going to suggest on the going back to the resources was for the water department. Uh I think you've got a unique situation in that a portion of the water system actually penetrates down into Byron Township. And I think

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that should be suggested that it's noted in here because there is some infrastructure that gets involved down in Byum. Uh just like you pointed out that the scum over in Hardest Township handles the processing of the waste. Uh again, Sparta Township has some

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responsibility through its utility to keep the people in Byron Township in water as well. That's the one thing I noted. Are you talking about by the um >> right around here by the Glenn >> and the guy who came that one time and

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talked about protecting the sewers from the um Rossy >> or is that something different? >> You talking about the Newton Reservoir? >> Yeah. Uh yeah. Oh, Newton. That's Newton. I'm sorry. >> That's Newton's water supply. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Morris Lake is Newton's water supply.

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What I'm talking about is as you look at the map up on the screen right now, uh the roughly rectangular area that's Lake Mohawk, there's it doesn't stop at the municipal boundary line. The water system keeps down keeps going down into

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Byron Township. You're not under the board of public utilities because you don't have that many customers or that percentage revenue involved, but still you're you're married there, if you will. M >> so I think that'd be an important part for everybody to know for the future.

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>> Environment smart. >> There you go. >> I wasn't sure off the top of my head without looking at the maps if it was just a distribution line, but if there's a water tower down there uh and someday if there's a well down there or whatever, but you are married down in

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Byron Township. >> Dave, I'm going to reach out to you. Thank you so much, Dave, for your input, Ken. >> Yeah, just real quick, uh, Lindsay, excellent job. I took some notes that I can help on the revised next draft and I'll share them with you. Thank you. Nice job.

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>> Okay, great. Um, so now we will open it up to the board for comments, questions on the recycling element. We will start down on Joan side this time. >> Don't have anything. >> Okay, Mike. Uh does is there a future plan of having

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a recycling center um in Sparta Township where you can actually bring you know your recycling to the center or is that something that's uh I know some townships have it, some townships don't. I don't believe we have any now.

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>> Yeah, I believe there I believe there is a facility now. >> It's just we actually mentioned it, I think. Where is it? Yeah. Where would that be? >> Sparta Township. I don't think so. >> There used to be one. >> No. No. But I don't think there's one here right now. I think you you have to

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go to the re I think there's like a regional facility that you have to go to. Yes, that's not in Sparta. >> Yeah, it's not in Sparta. >> No, I don't have anything else. >> That's not too far. >> So, Sparta specific one is what you you're saying instead of

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>> the regional one, >> right? Yeah. Okay. >> I think it's like right there. Yeah, that I always think. >> Yeah, it's not it's not terribly far. Maybe we just highlight it and say this is where it is. Yeah. >> I'm trying to think. What was I thinking? >> I think that's a good idea.

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>> Okay. Um so yeah so recycling um I was um a little bit concerned a few years ago when we decided to change our sorting

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of we went to dual stream instead of or single stream instead of dual stream and I know that um there is a recommendation that we consider uh returning to dual

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And um that is because um we have had uh I guess less marketability of our recyclables overseas. Um and this is because uh they have to do the sorting you know and the cleaning. And I think this would make um

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I think this would make our uh market for recyclables uh more steady and secure for the future. I never really understood why we switched uh you know from sorting our paper from

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our bottles >> money >> and I know you follow the money you know everywhere but I did was never given a number uh when I asked what is the the difference in co cost to the town

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>> you know uh so um I would seriously like the master plan uh subcommitt committee to read this material and to consider uh uh transitioning back to um you know our

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s dual stream. So, I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about this, Lindsay, in terms of what other communities are are are saying because it does say here that um several communities are are

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changing uh if they were doing single stream back to the dual stream for you know for the obvious benefits of um you know marketability. Yeah, I think it was just looking at kind of um not necessarily market

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trends, but looking at kind of recycling and how, you know, the recycling that we think is being recycled isn't necessarily going where we think it is. A lot of it ends up in landfills. Um so I think it was kind of looking at that and seeing what the possibilities are of going to

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the dual stream for more environmental purposes. Well, I think that uh Skimua uh doesn't really care, you know, uh if we do either. It's it's a matter of cost. Um

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so, >> how would we look into that? Um and to try to be more ecological, um globally, uh and statewide. Um, you know, >> I think that's policy a policy decision,

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not necessarily. >> I think that's a town question. >> So, every five years, >> sorry. Um, every five years, usually the contract is reviewed and comes back and the last time that the contract was put together, they a dual or single stream

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was offered. And the thought was um not so much about money, but to more encourage people not to just stick their cardboard, you know what I mean? like rather than having them put everything apart to really encourage people just put all you know you don't have to put everything together with a string and

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smush it down and that because people were just cramming it in regular garbage. So, it was to go this way. But I feel like um in understanding how the the government works and sitting on that side of it, that's a decision that should be brought to the council for policy, maybe not something that can be

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addressed in the master plan because it's contingent upon availability and the contract. And it's not so much with schuma, it's with the hauler. So, and and that could change. So I think it just needs to be that you know another like we did like we were recommending

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with turf almost like maybe a general statement we should be reviewing what are the best things that's fine but to actually put it in there and say it must be this I think is over almost overreaching of the master plan that's more of a policy thing that should be

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brought up to the council when they're renegotiating the contract. Yeah, I guess I you know I understand that I I can see that. But a master plan also is a a vision for the community um you know and what we would like to

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see because our community is part of a larger community >> and we want to um be able to um to recycle as much as possible. That is our community responsibility. And if something like this returning to a dual

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stream would help us do that, um that would that would really uh be a good broader vision um you know for us perhaps. I know uh a couple of people in my community have said why did we ever change? You know um you know I was

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stacking things. I had my paper box. I had my my bottle carton, you know, and I put it put it out and uh then all of a sudden the confusion of oh, everything just goes in one place. So, it would I understand um bring about a different

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awareness and even training and education within the community to to switch back. But when um when there are several communities doing it for good reasons, um it is something that perhaps this could become our vision also in the

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future. and something to consider. Yeah. So that that was something and then um along with that um I was really good to glad to see that um in terms of recommendations that we made a recommendation towards doing something

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about food waste and I discovered there's a difference between food waste and plate waste. >> Okay. And I I didn't realize that um before. And then um I was seeing well

413
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are we taking care of our food waste, plate waste, or both of these? And in Sparta, we're not doing anything about plate waste. Okay. And at Skimua, they're doing very little about food waste, which is a huge

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problem in our country. So that also could be a concern and a vision u for us to try to work on this in the future. Um I know I think we mentioned in here food waste but I don't see any mention of plate waste in here

415
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and if New York City can do it we can do it right. Yeah. Even though we have bears. [laughter] >> It's funny. I said something similar today about composting in Sparta. My friend lives in Rockaway and I'm like if she can if they have little composting

416
02:05:44.960 --> 02:05:59.840
trucks going around in, you know, Rockaway in New York out in Queens, they can I feel like we something we could figure out. >> Yeah, it would be really worth it when you look at the dynamics of the the problem is a third of all of our food is

417
02:05:59.840 --> 02:06:17.840
is just, you know, trashed. Um so then um what else? Oh, I think I discovered that we do have a desert in our county and that's in um that's in Hamburg. We have an actual food desert,

418
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you know. Um so this is just being aware of our neighbors. Um and oh I uh Skamua doesn't have an anorobic digestion facility which would really

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help with processing food waste. It does not have that. Some communities do. And um our alternative is for a choice uh which is on 93 Stickles Pond Road. It has a couple other facilities. I know I

420
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ride my bicycle by one of them and it really stinks >> but uh but um you know that would be something would might be a good investment. Oh, and the last thing, well, there's other things, but it's getting late. Um, that I wanted to mention that was a

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little bit, I don't know, it just didn't doesn't sit right with me when I read that there's a annual senior citizens credit of 25 bucks. And also for veterans, >> you have to

422
02:07:26.480 --> 02:07:41.440
>> if this if you but you have to know how to apply for it. If you're a senior citizen, for 25 bucks you're going to get back. Okay. And this brings up a whole other can of worms, so to speak,

423
02:07:41.440 --> 02:08:00.719
is the issue of um of of uh justice, you know, social justice in that, you know, my neighbors have um three or four kids and they put out two or three cans and every other week I put out my recycling

424
02:08:00.719 --> 02:08:16.239
and my my garbage, but I'm still paying the big bucks and I don't know What? Maybe Ken, you know, or or Lindsay, you know what other um communities do about this? But I live in a a community that

425
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has several several um single uh people or um senior people and and it has um you know, families also. And so every Monday and Thursday I'm faced with that injustice,

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you know, seeing seeing, you know, that um and uh I don't know whether it's a percentage or or whatever uh we could come up with that wouldn't be, you know, too difficult to figure out. Um but I think

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that would help seniors. I think that would help um veterans um you know and single people and families. So that's I know that has been brought up before um in town council um but was not addressed. So I think that would be more

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helpful than 20 applying training senior citizens to apply for that 25 bucks a year rebate, you know. So that's all I have. >> I'm good. No comment.

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>> Okay, Chris. Uh, yep. So, just wanted to make sure that something was in here about DPW. When we're talking about garbage debate, they also offer RDBW has a huge station over

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there. So, storm debris, tree removal, and all kinds of stuff like that. And I just didn't see that anything about that included in this. Um, but it is big. I mean, after some of the hurricanes, if you would have went over to DPW, if

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anybody actually saw it, it was piles of mountains of trees, shrubs, and all that kind of stuff. Um, and I think that it's important to put something in there because that was also opened for free to

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all of, for example, the um private HOAs in town. So that Lake Mohawk brought their stuff over there, you know, Sparta Lake, all the the private ones, all were able to bring it to our DPW and they collected all of it and got rid of all

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of it. So I think that's a a key service that really was helpful to a lot of people. And they also um opened it up to people who were businesses who had removed fallen trees so that you did not

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have to pay for for the disposal of it. So they opened it up the when the businesses came there and I think that was something that was really helpful um to the residents especially right after something like that. So I think that's important. Um, and I know everybody

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loves these um, you know, I don't want to be the doubting the doubting Thomas or whatever it might be on the backyard um composting. I just think I remember growing up my grandmother had an outdoor compost and every time, you know, we took food and

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everything like that and we would go out and put it in the pile and then it would get all steamy and she would be able to put it in her vegetable garden and all that kind of stuff. But my grandmother lived in Cadam and they didn't have bears and raccoons and all kinds of things with all kinds of creepy

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just things. And so I think that if we're going to incorporate that in the master plan, maybe a better thing to do because there might be now there's also these machines, right, that you could I'm going to get this wrong so just forgive me, but there's some kind of like thing you could put in your uh

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kitchen and you could like put your food in that, right? >> I have one. >> Okay. So there's that, right? So maybe again instead of being specific to one type of of composting technology like put it in your backyard

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and pray for the best, maybe it's just to say to make options available to people from the website to constantly make sure the website is updated with the most current ways that people can um figure out how to handle their own plate

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waste and what did wait plate waste and food waste. So, I'm just saying maybe a little more general rather than being specific like that because my fear is that you're going to get people. We've had a lot of people that moved up here from places that don't have some of the critters that we have right now and they

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might think, "Oh, I'll throw it in my backyard." Next thing you know, the neighbor lets the dog out and it's a problem. So, I I would like to see that just be a little more general because there's so many it's changing so quickly. That's it for me. >> Okay, Janette. Uh, I don't have much

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more to add except that I do love the idea of composting [laughter] as long as we could figure out a safe way. >> Yeah. I I know the one thing I've seen is uh like a barrel >> on its side.

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>> It seals, it closes it, you know, they can't get at it. That that's that's the one thing I've seen. I know there there's all kinds of different things out there, but that's all I got. Okay Ron. >> All right. Um, a couple things again. Great job. Um, I looked at other towns,

444
02:13:21.920 --> 02:13:38.320
nothing was this comprehensive. So, >> job. Appreciate your work and all the master plan subcommittee, everything that everyone's done there. >> Um, similar to the last thing, um, I I think Sparta has a recycling coordinator, so I I want to make sure they have a chance to look at this before it goes live. I think they may

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have some some some comments. >> Um, paragraph 72. I just want to make sure I'm probably misreading it. Um uh but it says that source separation is strictly mandatory for all owners, tenants or occupants or residential or residential.

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I think we're doing single stream. >> So I just want to make sure take a look at that. Make sure there may be some more work. I think it may be residential where you don't have curbside pickup available, but it's not all residential. >> You said 72. 72 the uh the second

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paragraph, the first sentence. >> Got it. >> Okay. Um you talk about Schuma's hazardous waste recycling program. Um they they've also got um electronic waste events and and paper shredding events as well as Sparta

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02:14:30.719 --> 02:14:45.599
I believe has I don't know if it's annual or semianual. They do a uh paper shredding event. So probably be worthwhile giving mention to that. One thing again this isn't it but I think it will make it easier for everyone down the road is within the um the element

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you mentioned you know pricing per pound. Well you know this is looking forward 20 years. I I would get rid of that just so you're not constantly updating it every time they update it and you know maybe say for a fee or something but I you know I'd get rid of that. Um

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and then the last thing is uh one of the recommendations was to I think to um provide a some sorting guides for single stream. Um and this is why I think having um the recycling manager look at it. There is a lot of good information

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on our town website about uh single streaming, what what's what you should do, what you shouldn't do. Um and as well as some of these other things we talked about. So, so that's that's that's a tool and I think it's really important that somehow we get that website into this um and you know I mean

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just it's here's just a picture of things you know dos and don'ts and this is like one of like several pages so I think it's a good resource and we should put that in here if there's any way. >> Yeah. The issue that we found with some of the information on the website is that it's not correct. >> Okay. >> Um so that was the one thing. So, it's

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funny you bring this up because we originally went off of the information that was on the website and then when we met with the subcommittee, they're like, "What? No, that's not correct." We're like, "It's on the website." >> Um, so I think it's kind of getting it once again. I imagine over the next 20 years,

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>> that's the other thing that it it constantly changes what they can recycle to get better and better at it. >> Yeah. But once again, sending this to the recycling coordinator and we can all get on the same page as well is I think valuable. >> Exactly. And then the last thing you you know it's interesting and this is kind of a side comment you know we we we do

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our recycling you know once a week and put it out there. Um, but people really, you know, there's a lot of good information that people should know, should follow, and and you know, maybe it'd be worthwhile to get some type of a rave notice out there that says, "Hey,

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there's information on this. You know, people should look at it maybe once a year or something like that and and because, you know, once this is done, >> some people can look at it, some people will never see it, but this is important. I think getting that message out to people is important." Yeah, we

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that's why we suggest um and actually Neil made this suggestion. Um there's recycling buddy which has a lot of the information that tells you about what day actually the where I live we have it and it I can look on in the calendar and it'll say okay I have you know um cans

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and bottles today um and it tells you what you can like what cans and bottles qualify and how you have to you know remove labels and you know take the caps off things like that. So, I think and it's an app just on my phone and it gives me a little reminder the night before like tomorrow's your garbage day.

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Uh have it out to the and like during the summer on hotter days we have to bring it out to the curb earlier and it'll send me that notification that you know get your get your garbage out there by you know 6 a.m. >> and and and that that's good but but I think you know the town the town has

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a a pretty good website. It sounds like it needs some updating, >> but I I think that's that's important that people know that. Um >> because a lot of people reference the town website for for when did my garbage pick up, you know, is it here today? Is it not there? But just again, just to

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blast to say, hey, it would pay to have everybody, you know, take a look at this and answer some questions that uh you have like for instance, >> I want to know how to get that $25. >> Yeah, I mean, $25 is $25. >> $25. [laughter] It's

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02:18:19.200 --> 02:18:34.800
>> I'm going out to breakfast. It's $25 more than you had. >> That's right. Yeah. >> And I'm I'm in four years. >> Not saying that funny. I'm I'm going for it tomorrow. >> Yeah. Um but I agree. Yeah. And I think maybe also getting in touch with the recycling coordinator, right, will solve a lot of these things.

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>> But again, another another great job. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you to the subcommittee as well. >> Brian, >> I'm all set. >> You're all set. >> Say it's 9:30. You can't [laughter] >> No, he's he's he's allowed. Um and and really quick again, thank you to everybody involved. subcommittee

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especially for all hard work and effort as always. Thank you for what you are doing and what you have done and what you continue to do. Um I just kind of want to piggyback off of something that Chris Dunar had said in terms of dual streaming. We have

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recommendations in there to to do an assessment for a bunch of other things. doing an assessment for dual streaming um just to see what the differential is in in cost is probably um well worth putting in the the extra three words in into the element. Um and that having

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been said, I'm going to open it up to public for comments, questions. I I I knew it was coming. Hi, Neil. [laughter] >> Hi. I just wanted to make a quick uh clarification on backyard composting. Um, this I believe the recommendation

467
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was for providing education uh on how to back how to do backyard composting because you can do it successfully. I know Chrisy mentioned the revolving uh rotating drums. Those are available. There are other systems. There's a I've

468
02:19:57.040 --> 02:20:12.080
been doing it for years at home with just an open container. It's all about how you layer things. So, if you you put the greens and the browns, there's a there's a science behind it. So that that's what we like to kind of do is

469
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provide education on how to do this. And many towns do this and they have programs uh and some towns even offer uh discounts on um uh containers for for backyard composting. So >> Neil, just a quick question is as a

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chair of the environmental commission, I know you guys do a big Earth Day event. Is this something that's worth having a booth at Earth Day? >> Yes, definitely. Just food for thought for for next year. >> Food for thought and food for compost.

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[laughter] >> Thanks. Did >> someone say does Skuma have a place where you can bring your compost? >> Does anyone know that? >> No. >> I'm wondering. >> No, they don't. They don't have any facility for food waste that I was able to to find. [clears throat]

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02:20:59.680 --> 02:21:16.080
>> But the landfill does. That's >> in the land the landfill has they have a whole big recycling segregation section >> recycling. Yes. But not and and to the point you can any resident can choose to

473
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separate their stuff and drive it over there. >> Right. Um, right. But, uh, I was wondering like is is there maybe something should say >> Scuma does vegetative composting >> partners, you know what I mean? To try to >> build >> like

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>> a shared service. Yeah. Like a shared service for this kind of stuff. >> Um, >> another quick question to the professionals with anything that you've heard in terms of comments. Any additional things to add before we wrap this up? >> Not on this element. No. Thank you.

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>> Nothing. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, so that having been said, uh, thank you again to Lindsay for all your hard work. Thank you again to the subcommittee for all their hard work. Um, we are now going to move into executive session. So, Ken,

476
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>> uh, yes, uh, notice was given for today. We have, uh, two matters to discuss in executive session. There was correspondence uh sent to the planning board by grey law group uh a query as to the quarry uh closure. Uh we need to

477
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discuss that and also uh there would be a discussion also of letter from the attorney from uh diamond chip and uh we're going to take the quarry one first because uh there are some people who are conflicted on the diamond chip. uh we

478
02:22:38.880 --> 02:22:54.080
may uh come out from close session and make a determination, but that determination uh would be uh quick. The diamond chip is requesting a hearing date and uh some other questions we'll discuss in close

479
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session and uh the quarry is also uh requesting an analysis of the applicable ordinances. So that's what we're going to be discussing. These are both questions of litigation. uh that would be discussed and again we may come out

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uh with a determination. Thank you. If someone would move to go to close session and second we can do that. >> I'll make a second. >> I move we go into close session. >> I'll second that motion.

481
02:23:26.560 --> 02:53:36.399
>> All in favor? I. Any oppose? Okay. Uh we can turn off the Oh Jenny >> we're still like off. We're not on. This is still executive. >> We We're on. >> We're on. >> We're on. >> We're on.

482
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>> Yes. >> And then you're >> once they're going to go back in for the matter. >> All right. Just for the record, we did go in close session on the quarry closure. Uh that's the uh uh Michelatti uh Suns concrete uh division

483
02:53:52.399 --> 02:54:07.520
application. We received a letter from Mr. uh uh David Gray dated July 31st, 2026 uh requesting our interpretation of which ordinance uh is subject to their

484
02:54:07.520 --> 02:54:23.920
application. His letter of July 31st, 2026 specifically notes the uh application ordinance of 175,000 square feet in place at the time of their May 19th submitt and also their July 8th,

485
02:54:23.920 --> 02:54:41.040
2026 2nd submitt. Uh we did discuss this in close session as to whether or not the uh 175,000 square foot uh prior ordinance or the new 75,000 square foot ordinance uh which was adopted on June

486
02:54:41.040 --> 02:55:00.000
23rd, 2026. Uh we did discuss this in closed session. It's my understanding that there will be a motion going forward uh that the applicants application of May 19th, 2026, which was supplemented uh in July 8th, 2026

487
02:55:00.000 --> 02:55:17.520
uh is controlled by the 175,000 ft uh ordinance, not the new 75,000 foot ordinance. And that was based upon the review of the board engineer and board attorney and advising us as to the same. If someone would put forth that u motion

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that the that the 175,000 square foot uh uh requirement ordinance is in place, not the 75,000 square foot. >> I'll make the motion that it's the 175 square feet, not the 75 foot ordinance. >> I'll second. >> Roll call, please.

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02:55:35.520 --> 02:55:50.720
>> Christine Quinn, >> yes. >> Mike Wallace, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester, >> yes. Ronda Day, >> yes. >> Christine Dunar, >> yes. >> Joan Ferman, >> yes. >> Ernie Ragstead, >> yes. >> Vice Chairwoman Janette Burke, >> yes.

490
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>> Chairwoman Celeste Luciano, >> yes. >> Ryan Zimmerman, >> yes. >> Bear Bogler. >> Okay. Again, we're going to go in close session again for the public to the DCR matter. There are certain board members which uh must uh step down from that.

491
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So, we're going to go in close session. We uh uh may come back on that. The just those who don't want to stick around uh it does look like June 2nd, >> September 2nd.

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>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got my Thank you, Cons. September 2nd uh will be the uh date under the appellet and judge Minkowitz uh order that the matter has to be heard within 45 days. Uh therefore

493
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uh it looks that that'll be on the agenda again in September 2nd. We will confirm that when we come out of close session uh but we are not going into close session and will probably come out with a determination of what date that matter will be heard if at all. Thank you.

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>> Wait, are we out or in? >> We're out. We're out right now. We're going into DCR. >> For DCR I'm leaving. We have to leave because we're accused No, I have on the record.

495
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>> Are we back on the record? We're coming out of a close session related to uh Diamond Chip. I have an email from uh the diamond chip attorney Frank Vatollo of today's date at 423 confirming that they want to go forward

496
03:14:49.680 --> 03:15:05.680
with their application number 689 uh as prepared by uh Kimley Horn there's approximately 698,000 square foot two buildings and uh under Judge Minkawitz's opinion also uh which was affirmed by

497
03:15:05.680 --> 03:15:22.000
the belt division we have 45 days from the date of the entry to hear this matter. Therefore, the matter will be heard on the September 2nd, 2026 agenda. If the applicant requests more time, they have that election, but under the

498
03:15:22.000 --> 03:15:37.600
court order, we are to provide that within 45 days. We are doing that. On our agenda on that date, we also had the Highland uh hearing. We're going to see if we can push that off. Uh if not, if the Highland matter has to be heard, the

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DCR matter would be at 8:15 p.m. But more will file uh follow as to the exact time. Our discussion also uh was that uh new notice would have to be given. uh we're talking about matters going back

500
03:15:52.560 --> 03:16:09.120
to uh 2023 2024 and that uh even though the we've continued the uh the matter by way of the letter correspondence back it was always determined to be heard pursuant

501
03:16:09.120 --> 03:16:26.479
to the appellet court ruling which says it has to be in 45 days we are entitled to a jurisdictional hearing which will take place on June 2nd and uh again it's my professional opinion that new notice has to be given because of the amount of time that passed. Uh if someone put a

502
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motion uh in favor of that and second, I'd appreciate it. >> I'll put forth the motion. >> Second it. >> Uh roll call, please. >> Mike Wallace, >> yes. >> Joan Ferman, >> yes.

503
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>> Ernie Ragstat, >> yes. Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester. >> Yes. >> And Brian Zimmerman. >> Just real quick before we leave, we did discuss we have six members that are eligible on the planning board. Begate uh was not here tonight, but she will be

504
03:17:00.319 --> 03:17:16.640
the sixth member. I will offer to the applicant whether or not they want additional members from the board of adjustment to be brought over or if they're satisfied with the six members because we do have a quorum. Thank you. Uh there's a motion to uh close the meeting.

505
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>> I'll make a motion to I second.