welcome to the executive session of the PARTA Township planning board um this in accordance with the open public meetings act statement adequate notice of this public meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act formal action may or may not be
taken I this other thing to read whereas njs 2 col 4-12 open public meeting act permits the exclusion of the public from a meeting in certain circumstances and whereas this public body is of the opinion that such circumstances
presently exist now therefore be it resolved by the planning board of the township of spida County of suss state of New Jersey as follows the public shall be excluded from discussion of an action upon the here andafter specified subject matters the general nature of
the subject matter to be discussed is as follows contract negotiations it is anticipated at this time that the above stated subject matter will be made public when deemed appropriate the resolu solution shall take effective immediately may I have a motion to go
into executive session I'll make a motion I'll second thank you e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e you're gonna have to sit in the jury box open this you're gonna have to sit in the jury box over away from everyone right
whatever you call it the witness stand Ron wants to know what you have am I allowed to I have no idea what I think sinus oh hippo violation I had I had the flu like a month ago and it was like you know it lasts for it's only a couple days of
like temperature and everything else and then you have a call for three weeks we're live I just have this headache right here that's it still there no was hello everyone you doing hi hi hey Rich how you doing tonight I'm good how
are you would you like us to turn oh yes please oh how's your hand much better nice yeah it's time do it before your binder gets put down yeah add an extra five pounds to the
table all right thank you everybody for sorry about the weight um um but on behalf of the members of the planning board and our professionals I'd like to welcome you to tonight's meeting of the sparta Township planning board this meeting is being held on February 19th
2025 at the sparta Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street in spida proceedings of the meeting are being live streamed on YouTube at www.youtube.com Sparta TW WP the time is now 7:32 and this meeting is now called to
order please note that no new business will be conducted after 9:30 and the meeting will end at 10: please stand and join the board as we proudly pledge flag I pledge
the one nation indivisible withy thank you right Risha roll call please Ernie ragad here Robert Bleckley here Vice chairman Rob Robert Oto here
chairwoman Joan Ferman here councilman Mark Scott here Ronde here Janette Bert here Celesta Luciano here we have a few a changes to the agenda
um first we're going to have a uh motion we had an executive session and we interviewed uh board attorney and uh so we are going to do um take a motion uh with regard to that uh with regard to the public hearings uh tonight we will
be hearing NPS properties uh at the last minute Firehouse Apartments um said that they could not be here tonight so we are going to move them and we're still trying to decide when it looks like it might be April um but we'll have to get a date because we
are booked with one of the ones that we carried from today that we could have heard um but we should announce that date formally now so they don't have to re notice okay then the first date in April
see be April 2nd Wednesday April 2nd that's our next planning board meeting okay so March mind if I announce it go please all right so if there's any member of the public here with respect to the application filed by Firehouse
Apartments LLC for 23 West Shore trail that application is not being heard this evening um it will be heard instead on April 2nd 2025 in this room commencing at 700 p.m. and there'll be no further notices from the
applicant okay Mr Aller yes is there a way do do we have to hear that on on in April can we decline hearing this that application no you have to hear it okay I mean you don't have to hear it on April 2nd but
if um you know if there's a different date you know if if the April 2nd agenda becomes full or whatever you have to push it again you could do that but um the reason I wanted to announce it was so the applicant didn't have to Ren notice the the 200 foot list and they
don't have to uh republish okay thank you okay there is one other thing I'm sorry but I think that's Madison hooker is that's yours right so um I'm not sure we are on time for that application can we have an agreement that time is extended
through through let's go through May right so May 31st for time extension okay thank you and that's on which one that's on Firehouse Apartments okay it's extended to May May
31st 31st okay um the green is also um not on the agenda um they are postponed till March 5th five okay um so can I announce that one as
well all right so again uh any member of the public who's here for the green 973 LLC for property at 10 Park Lake Road that application is not being heard this evening it instead will be heard on uh March 5th 2025 commencing at 7 pm in
this room and there'll be no further notices from the applicant and then the last change will be the Coler machine and design ink going to move that first under the public hearings yeah so with respect to um well I'm not sure
what I did with that letter I guess but um so we I'm sorry I have it back here okay so with respect to the application um for Coler machine um 11 Wilson Drive according to the letter
from M hooker there was a preliminary and final site plan approval on April 7th 2021 um you know the board maybe is aware the uh approvals don't expire the
zoning protection expires right so since they did the final at the same time a final site plan approval has a 2year um protection right so the law also allows the applicant to get three
one-year extensions so so the third extension even though the first two weren't technically applied for um they're sort of applying for all three of them right now to get them out to April of 26 so if the board agrees to
the extension it would be through April 21st 2026 and that would be their last available extension okay thank you all right so um I guess you know we'll begin and as I said the first thing we're going to do is um
entertain a motion to um hire Mr well I shouldn't make the motion would anybody like to make a motion to hire board attorney I'd like to make a motion to hire Ken foro as the planning board attorney I'll
second okay U may we have a roll call please councilman Mark Scott yeah Janette Burke yes Ronde abstain Robert Bley yes Celeste Luc IO yes Ernie ragat
yes Vice chairman Robert Oto yes chairwoman Joan fman yes okay just so I'm clear is that going to start March 5th at the next meeting okay good not good I don't mean it that way it's just just so I
know okay all right so we'll start with colir well what do you want to do with uh yeah colir yes welcome good evening members of the board my name is Madison hooker uh I'm from the law firms gang CH Smith and
King and I represent the applicant colir um machine and designning I apologize could you please use the microphone thank you so much makes it easier uh this application uh concerns property located at 11 Wilson Drive uh in Sparta
in the Ed Zone uh the applicant as uh you guys have just heard uh received um approvals for uh preliminary and final site plan and C variances in 2021 and the applicant is requesting an extension of those approvals uh as some of you may
remember uh the time period that this application was approved during the time of high inflation and high cost of construction and so the applicant is just requesting uh additional time uh while it continues to work through uh
the business decisions uh so that it can uh uh complete the required construction um and like we said the the applicant is entitled to three one-year extensions and although uh we didn't apply for the
other two uh we would like to to have it extended to 2026 so with Celeste question no I'm good for the moment thank you nothing right now if I guess the answer is obvious but
if you didn't apply for an extension um it doesn't automatically cancel approvals don't expire right it's the zoning change that is protected right um I
would have one question then about the um changes to maybe design standards or other things that occurred during that time would they be subject to any new standards that were put in place since
2021 so if there's construction standards that have changed I think we did something with Landscaping new standards so if it's just the Landscaping plan then whatever was approved it's still the same Landscaping plan that was approved so this would
protect them from ordinance 22 222 22 21 21 whatever it was hold on um what that there was an ordinance change to the Ed Zone this this would effectively protect them from that because this approval was prior to that
right can we make it a condition of approval tonight that they have they basically have to come back before the board which is what I think what they're requesting an extension of the original approval so they don't have to come back before the board so I think
effectively and Rich correct me if I'm wrong effectively you vote no on this if that's what you wanted okay think about that thank you I'm sorry Should Skip to me first um this is I don't have a common question so I need to save this later
just let me know you know I I do have have some concerns being that 2221 has changed the Zone um in regard to to warehousing and that type of stuff um and trying to get the information on exactly what was approved this week it I finally got something right before the
meeting um so I'd really like to understand if we approve it what it is we're approving what were the variances and and and how does it compar to 2221 as well as what going into a Master Plan update so I I I just think personally I'd be more comfortable with a one-year approval right now as opposed to a
threeyear approval well would be one year from so so so we're not approving all three years in one shot well already they never really asked for the other two right so you what you would do now at this point is they're asking you to
ex give them the three years from um from 23 202 okay thank you right so their 2021 approval would have expired in 2023 right all right and 2023 they could
get a one-year extension to April of 24 and then another a second one-year extension till April of 25 and now they're saying hey we want to come in and for our third one-year extension through April of 26 correct
thank you April 26ct no no you a motion yes yes I'd like to make a motion that we uh approve the extension through April 21 2026 for colier machine and Design Incorporated uh which is
uh EB uh number 686 I'll second roll call please councilman Mark Scott he's
left Janette Burke yes Ronde yes Robert Bleckley yes Celesta Luciano yes Ernie Raga yes Vice chairman Robert OT yes chairwoman Joan Ferman yesk thank you
you okay and then we'd like to welcome back NTS properties good evening ladies and gentlemen Daniel Bendorf from asking and hooker uh located in spart New Jersey um here on behalf of MPS better known as nikol loock paving stones um here on
their behalf is Nino Nia um and uh if I could I'd like to uh my client remains sworn in from the last time we were here but we do it again you want to do it again yes okay um so I'd like to swear in my client then and then we can also have our experts uh do everybody at the
same time yeah that's what I'm thinking yeah so whoever it is won't we come on up so it's Mike fiser and um a Fred wara okay would you all stand raise your right hand I'm going to swear in the board um professionals as well in case
there's testimony as we go along so if everyone would stand Raise Your Right hands professional yeah Dave I like swear I swear in the board professionals too sorry so raise your right hand do you solemnly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do and from
my left to right just for the record names please Nino niia and spell your last name ni o l i a Michael fer i s h David B Simmons Jr s i mm o NS Katherine sad board planner thank you
Mr oler uh would you like them to uh provide their credentials now only when they come up to testify understood thank you so much gentlemen be SE all right good evening ladies and gentlemen uh again um we're here to discuss nine Park Lake Road Block 16003
lot 7 uh currently an undeveloped 1.85 acre lot in the Ed uh Economic Development Zone um this application is nearly identical to an application that was approved back in 2020 um it was approved with four
tenants at that time um and also no Landscaping essentially no Landscaping at that time um when I was last year before the board uh the uh on January 15 2025 I opened the application with my
client's testimony um he was seeking an application to amend the approved site plan um in further compliance with Sparta Ed Zone um and construct a single tenant building uh with indoor storage showroom and office space
um my client testified the last time that we're here um that the uh the building itself was going to be used to Market its higher and um uh grills pizza ovens uh implements that that assoc were associated with
their building block um and at that time the applicant agreed to the following con conditions um that there was going to be no outdoor storage that deliveries were going to be staggered that uh trucks were going to be turned off
during a deliveries uh and while they were parked there was going to be no overnight parking there was going to be two to three deliver per day or pickups per day um it was going to be approximately three tractor trailer trucks per week um there was the hours of operation
were going to be from 7 to 4: uh there was going to be no hazardous material stored on site um we believed at most there would be approximately two clients at any given time um because the clients uh uh their appointments would be
staggered um because they would make appointments to be there um there were going to be no sales on site um there were going to be approximately four employees um and we provided 20 spots but really we were looking at
approximately six spots were needed for what this uh applicant was doing on site um and we know this because they're operating in a similarly situated building uh and um and so they know exactly the amount of people that would
be coming and going on a regular basis and the amount of trucks that would be coming and going on a regular basis that's how we can be so sure of it um and then um I think uh the last thing is no sales will actually be made directly from this site uh it's designed to
Showcase these these implements and then additionally train um like retailers and I think the last time we were here I spoke about like maybe someone like Wingull might come here to see a new grill that they're showcasing uh learn how to use the Grill and then they would
say we need you know 24 units and they would leave um and then at some point in time they would have those delivered to wingle supply company but they wouldn't actually be picking them up that day um so uh Nino you've heard uh my recantation of what we discussed that
first uh meeting is that an accurate representation do you wish that to be your testimony this evening yes okay I'd rather him okay I'd rather him testify not say what you said is good okay yeah I'll just repeat everything you
said I'll just ask the questions um um Mr Nia is there going to be any outdoor storage no will deliveries be staggered yes will the trucks be turned off during deliveries yes is there going to be any overnight parking no uh are there two to three
deliveries per day yes will there be approximately three total tractor trailer truck deliveries per week yes are the hours of operation 7 to 4 yes are there going to be any hazardous materials stored on site no um at most uh are we looking at approximately two
client vehicles um at any given time parked on site yes at most okay and at most are we looking at four employee vehicles uh parked on site at any given time yes okay um and are we providing 20
spots yes okay um and and you you have a good understanding of how this will operate because you are currently operating in a similarly sized and situated building correct correct okay and there will be no sales directly to clients on site
correct correct okay could you just describe what what do you mean by staggered deliveries U we the uh deliveries will be scheduled to come in at certain times so that due
to the we're not stuck unloading multiple trucks stacked one after another after another so they would be scheduled one for 8:00 a.m. one for 1:00 p.m. one for 3 p.m. something like that so you're saying there's one delivery truck on site at any particular time no uh most
of the deliveries would come in from outside companies uh we would occasionally have our own truck maybe for an internal transfer or something like that those stagger deliveries is on your end yes re receiving yeah receiving St deliveries
okay okay thank you um so if the board has any more questions for my client now would be a great time to ask you want to start this off I'm I'm fine thank you thank Bravo uh
just refamiliarizing myself I'll I'll yield to celest if she's got anything I'm actually going to wait for our professionals to potentially weigh in because I think they'll have any better questions than I would we go to the professionals and then we'll come
back sure um thank you board members uh just referring to my report of October 23rd 2024 at this time I think most of my comments are related to engineering matters as opposed to the operation uh the one thing that the applicant did
point out is the number the maximum number of uh parking spaces that they anticipated they were going to need because as I went through the uh parking requirement uh and the impervious coverage uh they
did have a uh smaller size and less than was required by the ordinance so basically I had pointed out that uh based on the size of the building uh bear with me I'll find it here in a second they were supposed to
have U certain number of parking spaces and they are they are providing less than what's required and but based on their testimony they've got sufficient according to their testimony the rest of
the items based oh I'm sorry uh I had calculated 36 parking spaces were required they're proposing 20 which needs a waiver uh but again if the board's satisfied with their uh explanation of what they physically need for their proposed operation that's one
thing uh with regards to the parking I know Mr fiser their engineer is here later that will testify and there are a couple other waivers that are required but I'd hold those comments off if it's all right to the board uh when the time when he testifies
that's all I have of this applicant thanks Dave um thank you board members you I think you just mentioned that the hours of operation are going to be 7 to 4 right okay I thought I had in my notes from last meeting that was 9 to4 would there be okay uh yeah no that
didn't change that was the same uh as we uh provided testimony last meeting okay I might have just misheard of the last meeting that's fine um this is going to be probably a question for the for the professionals but it's not really technical nature so I thought I'd ask it um has anything changed about the design of the building from the prior
approval uh that's more for the uh engineer okay that's fine yeah I have nothing else then thank you nothing nothing nope I'm good have anything here thank you all
right uh so I I'd like to uh call up our engineer um and we can um since oh so yes oh it's wearing me in it's questions only yes you don't
have to be sworn in for a question I just have a quick question what is the size of the existing facility that you currently operate out of I believe it's uh just over 10,000 ft but I don't know exactly off the top of my head okay thank you
okay thanks all right so Mike if you'll approach you can go take a seat if you want BL God bless you thank you hey Dan while he's getting set up what was the date of the first hearing uh June January uh 15th 2025 okay gotcha thank
you yep I'll out copies is this both of them yes these are exhibit we'll have Tob Mr would you like me to uh question him for uh credentials yeah you can just tell us about your professional
background and education please that's good all right I have a um engineering degree from NJIT graduated in 2011 I think it's been so long I don't remember anymore um I sat for and passed the PE exam in
2014 um I've been a practicing engineer in good standing ever since in um Mars pic Bergen Union Sussex counties and hun and and your license is current in New Jersey
yes it is you've provided testimony before other boards in Sussex County yes I have have you ever provided testimony before boarded County uh I don't remember if it was the planning board or it was the luse or I'm sorry the um zoning board but it was definitely smer
okay board have any questions any questions from the board no okay Mr fer as expert in the area of engineering for the purposes of of presenting our site plan all right um Mr fiser you put up a a board here uh has
this been provided to the board yes it has it has okay but it it's colorized correct colorized version of the plan sheet 3 of 12 of what was submitted so it's a little different than what was submitted correct that's correct so we're going to uh what is the date of
that uh the date of the plan is August 824 would you put today's date on it too please okay uh in addition to that you've uh made similar the colored images are these identical to that they are and are these for the purpose of the board that they can look at in case they can't see
that is correct so this is a reduced version of A1 yes s there's two pages and you will find that with this as well there's going to be an A2 all right Mr fiser take it away all
right um so as we've noted before uh this this property was under a similar almost identical application in 2020 uh where it was approved by this board um the footprint of the building is the same as what was approved in 2020 um um
the location of the building is the same location um building coverage has slightly increased in that uh we have added a um a canopy across the front of it for Aesthetics purposes um the canopy is
located on the um southeasterly corner of the building it wraps around the southernly side to the easterly southeasterly side um uh the the application previously was granted a variance for impervious
coverage um in the Ed Zone the requirement the maximum impervious coverage required is 40% and uh the applicant previous applicant um received a variance for 51% um to maintain that same percentage
we reduced the pavement uh impervious coverage associated with the pavement um to keep the um coverage number identical but the actual pavement widths are less so there's less pavement on site
um as we noted we have nine parking spaces striped uh across the front of the building six is what we're saying is really what is necessary but we're providing nine and then we're providing an area for 11 parking spaces that are unstriped um adjacent to the building
this um this building is set up for one tenant as opposed to what was previously approved for four tenants um there's accessible um routes around the building from the parking spaces to the front of the of the the uh building um there
are additional there is additional relief required for the number of um B overhead bay doors um five is what's what's Allowed by maximum by by the code um we're providing six uh so we're we're
seeking relief for that um in addition to uh that we're also seeking uh relief from the storage and parking coverage which again that's a variance um 25% is what's allowed the
maximum we're providing 33% and I'd like to actually also note that under the previous application we were providing 34% as I stated earlier we've reduced the pavement area therefore we've actually reduced this um the intensity
of this variance that we're seeking here uh I talked about the impervious coverage um we're also seeking uh variance relief for landscape area ratio which I believe is new to the ordinance since the previous application was um
approved um the plan that you currently have before you in those plans uh for landscaping shows approximately 19% of um plant area across the property all uh just to confir just so that the board is
aware so there's two pages there uh one of them is the site plan colorized and the other one is the landscape plan so that you can see that I just want to make sure it's aware of that so are you is he referring to that now why we Mark the second sure okay so we're going to
mark that one A2 please I was Loosely in the sense that it was also in included in the application package it's behind it just flip it over oh I tried to make it easyk you so much that's okay um so the the minimum requirement
in the Ed zone is 40% so again we're seeking relief from that as well um an increase since the last application that's correct it is an increase since the last application um I noted the number of loading do the overhead doors
um the park number of parking spaces we spoke about that and then lastly relief I'm sorry um we're seeking relief for the parking space size um that's a w I'm sorry it's a waiver um we're providing 9 by8
parking space size where 9 by2 is What's um the minimum uh required uh would note that all of those parking spaces are adjacent to um a a curbed sidewalk that would allow for the extra twoot of
overhang so we wouldn't theoretically have enough room with the overhang of 9 by2 UM and then lastly I noted it it's it's actually noted in uh Mr Simmons's report about um waiver relief for Access
Drive WID um the aisle width in all of the oneway direction of traffic circulation is less than 24 ft in some cases it's 23 ft I believe
in 22 um across the front and rear of the building and that's all one-way traffic flow uh but in the areas where the parking is adjacent to it it does meet the the ordinance requirement of 24 ft
um I noted the footprint of the building is is the same size uh we are providing a trash enclosure of 12x 15 ft um that's enough to to allow for at least two six cubic yard dumpsters um we have a
generator pad on site the uh property will be serviced by Municipal Water which is out in Park Lake Drive uh there is no sanitary sewer in this area so the site has been designed with a septic system I'd like to note that that
approval from this health department department has been extended up through um I believe August of 2025 um so we we're current with that still um the site is uh set up to handle
storm water management uh there's a a surface infiltration Basin located at the front of the property between the building and Park Lake Drive um that's that's um designed to handle the increase in runoff flows from the property property um and not negatively
impact um Park Lake Drive or the surrounding properties um lighting the property has has adequate lighting it meets the the ordinance requirements um I noted the landscape requirements
um and then as far as site circulation uh this property was I'm sorry this this development was looked at um and considered for um tractor trailer circulation um it's it it is sufficient to circulate a WB 50 articulating uh
tractor trailer which is what was approved previously at uh on the previous application as well um and that that's basically my overview of the the application all right uh Mr Fisher we
did we did have some consideration uh with respect to the impervious coverage um that we we talked about uh if the board was would like we can reduce some of the parking by either way of uh perious papers or additionally um we can
reduce the parking lot because we're confident about the need for parking uh to address the impervious um is that correct we we discussed reducing the amount of sidewalk adjacent to the parking lot um to further reduce the
impervious coverage um and then we also discussed um moving the dumpster enclosure from an exterior uh location which is here to directly inside the the paved area which would be out of any traffic circulation um and
and then kind of utilizing something that's already going to be impervious for something that for the the trash enclosure where's that trash uh if you're looking on your PL see kind of like a a white area in the upper corner
here it is trash enclosure yeah okay anything else to our professionals sure thank you madam chair again referring to my report rep of October 23rd
2024 uh Mr Fischer has covered some of the items that were listed in the report but just to highlight some and flesh out some other items again with uh regards to variances we're talking impervious coverage 40% Max 51% is proposed and for
the lot area ratio for parking and storage 25% Max is allowed and their proposing 33% um they are uh proposing an additional docor door um Beyond what's Allowed by the latest ordinance and with
regards to section 18- 4.29 I5 calls for tractor trailer parking stalls by each dock door tractor trailer size parking stalls have not been provided by the doctors um so that's that's another situation uh with regards to the site
plan itself um they basically have shown that truck movement around the building in the clockwise direction is satisfactory for a WB 50 uh the proposed handicap spaces would be subject if the board were to approve the application uh
for review by the township construction official uh one item maybe I missed it um with regards to the proposed pad for an emergency generator uh has a generator type been chosen as far as fuel type and noise level at the property lines and why have you it has
not been at this time so that's unknown at this point you're just proposing the p at this point that's [Music] correct and I believe I had a comment number 4 d no outside storage on the site but I believe the applicants
already agreed to that that's cor okay with regards again to the parking and circulation I had calculated 36 parking spaces were needed 20 are provided so that needs a waiver uh again the parking space size 9 by 20 is required 9 by8 is
proposed in the areas that were referred to where the twoot overhang over the sidewalk how wide is the sidewalk at that location 6 feet all right so there still be a clear 4ft wide sidewalk for pedestrians okay good and just to to further on that um we not I noted
previously um the option to reduce the sidewalk that was considered in part of it but it was to maintain the backside of the sidewalk and reduce the the sidewalk forward so you still have that twoof foot overhang without impeding the the walkway okay okay good and again
with regards to the aisle width for in Sparta's ordinance for 90° parking 24t is the normal requirement there's some areas where it's 23 ft but I think Mr fiser was trying to indicate that in the areas where they were proposing 23 ft there's no parking in that
area correct okay with regards to storm drainage again they have provided a basin upfront to help mitigate the additional impervious coverage uh we would need if the board's inclined to approve the application an operation and maintenance
manual for the storm water facilities and that ultimately would be recorded in the county clerk's office so that subsequent owners in addition to this owner would know what their responsibilities are as far as maintaining repairing and we Havey the storm draining
system with regards to the lighting uh I did have some notes or I think there were some notes before on which exterior lighting were going to be left on as as far as um exterior lighting for uh
safety purposes and I requested that some cut sheets be provided to verify that the lighting is proposed to be downward facing LED lighting and I'm assuming that the applicant can accomplish that yes that's correct as a matter of fact I believe under the
previous application uh a cut sheet was provided I can I can resubmit it again as well okay uh the architect is going to be uh testifying separately correct okay then I'll skip the architectural plans um with regards to
Landscaping we had pointed out uh that the basically the 40% on the site uh was supposed to be occupied by landscaping and shrubs that has not been met I believe they are proposing to do 19% roughly 19% roughly 19% so that would be
a a waiver requirement from the board to consider if they're inclined to do so with regards to utilities I agree there's Township Water Department provided in the street for all connections whether it just be for domestic water or if for some reason the
township construction official mandates that under the code it has to be sprinklered uh which I think they'll testify to later but if it did have to be there is water available in the street for that and as uh the applicants just indicated their septic system has
been exted extended through later on this year with regards to signage what I found was that the proposed signage consists of a monument sign 48 square fet and that's what the code allows with regards to the facade sign uh 30 ft is
proposed and 65.4 ft is allowed so it meets those requirement and as far as the total sign each allowed uh 100 square ft is allowed and they're up to 78 square ft so as far as I could tell with what they proposed they meet assign requirements as far as dimensional
requirements um I did talk about some additional details that would be needed to satisfy the water department as far as their service line requirements and valving and metering requirements but I'm sure the applicant can comply with all that uh briefly we had discussed
that this particular property is near the Township's Germany Flats Wells and their Associated Wellhead protection areas and restrictions against release of hazardous materials and the drains and the septic systems should be incorporated into any approval the board might consider and I think the applicant
in previous testimony and perhaps tonight indicated that they would adhere to that and then under miscellaneous uh we had requested some additional studies per the new ordinance the environmental impact statement a traffic impact study and a community impact statement which
Mr fiser I think authored and can go into that a little bit I think and with regards to the approval I listed the ones that I think are applicable for this particular site plan and as usual uh we recommend that if the boards to approve this application that in fact
the applicant provide an as built plan upon completion of the project so we can verify in the field than any conditions of this report the township planner report or conditions imposed by the board uh be adhered to and complied with and that's my update Madam chair thank
you y but just to be clear the applicant agrees with all of the proposed conditions from U Mr Simmons report is that right yes okay thank you thank you I just have a handful of questions
um I noted that um the applicant shall address the EV space requirement at the time that this application was previously approved the EV standards I don't think were in effect Statewide um because this site is not developed so it's not an amendment to an
existing an existing building an existing site it's just an amendment to the preliminary and final site plan approval I believe that at least one parking one EV space would be required for the state regulations um it's not shown on the plans but if they could agree to that I think it's something
that that's not yes we agree to that thank you so it be EV ready or installed has to e ready okay um I know that the the Landscaping plan I don't know if this came up at the last hearing when we had that kind of brief
introduction of the project but the um the landscape plan does address some of the more general landscape requirements under section 18- 5.3 o um but the Ed Zone was amended in 2022 to include additional landscape
requirements particular to the Ed Zone um under Section 18- 4.29 i7 um there's a handful of them um so I I I don't know I know that they didn't make it onto the landscape plan I think that they eventually should to show that they
comply with them in particular the minimum landscape area ratio uh of 04 um just to show compliance with that um and then also didn't we say they didn't comply with that wasn't at the testimony you don't comply with the
point4 for landscaping only had 19% I thought right that's what I thought I heard yes it includ it includes ground cover as all as well so I didn't know if that was factored in okay so that should be sh that deviation should be shown on the plans
then um and then as far as I I think the ordinance is worded in such a way that says not to use exotic species um and recommends or encourages um non-invasive and Native
species and I think most of the species are actually native with the exception of two the Colorado Bruce Bruce which isn't I mean it's still domestic but the Chinese juniper I think if you can find variation NJ native Juniper variation that that should be replaced um I think
there's there's a handful of them that are native J we have no objection to that we're open to suggestions with regard to landscaping for sure okay thank you um and then I don't know if any other if there was any other standards under the landscape are some of them are more design related about the placement of Evergreens at at
property lines um and are Less Direct than a than a than the landscape error ratio requirement but I didn't know if you had any other deviations from those that should be shown as well I I'm not aware of any the additional VAR um variations from the
ordinance okay thank you and you'll agree to update the plan to show the landscape era ratio on the landscape plan absolutely thank you um I think the rest of my comments are going to be directed towards the architect thank you we'll go back to the
days I have a question uh a few questions um the plant matter so we're unclear 19% 40% 40% is the requirement but you think you're at 19 yeah 19 is being provided right Mike that's correct and then uh there's ground cover that's
not that's just the plantings I believe it was just a a comment from the planner um it has been included in that 19% okay so in in amidst all those plantings I don't I don't know what the requirement is for
the 40% I'm just curious um the green well the green area is beyond the planting area so that's not um let me see because the the map top of the map is SE sewage Wastewater that's correct
right sorry setic system yes that's correct so for your for your lighting at had a question what were the hours of the the lighting um I believe we we have noted on the plans that the lighting was to be clock operated
From Dusk until dawn but I believe that was a comment in the engineers letter so we're open to because you're doing seven to four right so you could tweak that you be open to it we're open we're open to recommendation do you have uh temperature determined on like LED temperature determined are you willing
to kind of go more warm and less daylight it's like 3,000 Kelvin 2700 uh we're currently providing 4,000 Kelvin but are you willing to go a little lower just to absolutely change it according to newer standards um so
what would that be it' be uh trying to get 2700 Kelvin if possible I I don't think it incurs an additional cost it's just no change the the illumination levels much it's just or the coverage it just the the color that it appear it's an
it's an aesthetic and it's less blue light so it's generally seen as according to this spec that that we were using um the lowest that they provide is 3,000 Kelvin that's fine so we adjust 3,000 from four yeah it'll make a
difference um the six bay doors is that so does that mean that there's three in every one in those two sections the three on the right side we can uh look at those when we look at the
architectur um the dumpster you you were talking about uh increasing perious pavers reducing parking spaces that you were open to that because you're confident in your your parking numbers cuz you're
just commercial yeah we felt that it was a give and take right six and one hand and a half dozen in the other uh so we could take away some more of the parking um but then we would need more of a variance on one end versus giving the parking and we need
more of a variance on the other end for impervious so that's why uh we we kind of were open to suggestions from the board additionally if the board was was open to uh pervious pavers uh to reduce the calculation by way of percentage um we were happy to discuss that with the
board this evening uh through the engine so I mean presumably that would be a brought this up in environmental but uh Nicolock has good pervious pavers that could be yes so it's almost like a
virtual showcase yes exactly we we would we would be open to that idea um if the board suggests that and they' like that we we'll we'll be happy to provide the uh reduction impervious and the okay I like I like that um the tractor trailer
size for the the door stalls that Mr Simmons mentioned so that's just again I mean maybe we cover that in the bay door question but uh I guess I am curious you need six but you're getting three deliveries a week
uh yeah so uh I can have my client provide testimony as to why they need the six doors but it's my understanding uh that the six doors are designed so that it's safer inside the building for the people working there so that uh things don't have to be moved as much inside the building the trucks can be
parked at a bay door and they're offloaded and and put in their place um as opposed to moving them around inside the building and having to move other stuff inside the building so are you going to have these three tractor trailers potentially all three of them
in the building oh no no okay no yeah you're just going to unload and kind of pile and Stage we just wanted the board to to be aware of approximately how many tractor trailer truck trucks are coming to their current location per week so that you you understand that again the bay doors the amount of bay doors and my
client can provide this testimony is solely for the purpose of safety okay and uh not because there's going to be three tractor trailer truck or six tractor trailer trucks parked at the building it's just so that they have to move less inside the building they have options when they're staging inside to
come in okay I got it um and those bay doors I mean I assume we'll cover that but your planting areas the plantings adjacent those bay doors seem like lower type plantings but
presumably you could uh like the the higher bay door area seems like it has lower plants just based on the graphics if there was any concern about shielding the bay door you could swap some plantings in you'd be could increase the
massing right now it's it's a it's an evergreen buffer that's shown there we could absolutely increase that so you feel like it's already screened there it's it's intended to provide screening if the board would like additional screening we could consider that uh are you planning any signage on the the
canopies new right is there any like implied sign we'll show images of the building with the architect so you can see what it looks like that's part of the one that's another thing too there's Aesthetics that are tied to the architecturals that we could remove the canopy essentially and reduce the
impervious coverage but we think the canopy uh provides for the Aesthetics of the building and the town and and and the community and so um the architect can provide that um you and um yeah I mean I guess I'm just looking for if you did all the things that you talked about
in the impervious to do a trade off what number we would get to since we're at um yeah the impervious uh the impervious with the original application um is really offset by the retention basin if
we met the impervious calcul Mike you can provide testimony to this so so the the the the infiltration Basin is intended to to collect the runoff that that's the increase in runoff that's created by this Development A lot of
that is created by the impervious coverage um so we're we're we are mitigating that we've we've met our run runoff reductions in accordance with the the state code requirements um we have technically further reduced the
runoff um because we've reduced the pavement area that's that's uh running off to that Basin it's also less P it's less area that needs to be treated for water quality um it's effectively dirty impervious and we've traded that for uh
roof area which in the trade is really kind of considered clean impervious um it doesn't roof areas typically don't need to be treated for water quality whereas pavement areas because they're they're uh traversed by Vehicles they do
um um okay so are you counting the was it a retention detention Basin uh in your 19% or no uh we we are only the areas that are included and what you can probably tell from the plan that you
have in front of you on um the second stapled sheet which would sheet six um there's kind of like grayish white cross-hatched area yep that's generally what you're seeing as being the the land mass area for 19% so it's essentially a
sheet flow uh buffer comprised of the organic uh plantings ringing the property and then you additionally have this Basin um roadside that you're you're saying is
further dealing with the uh impervious sheet flow runoff so I guess Katherine do we have any kind of tradeoff calculations or or Mr Simmons um on impervious I mean it's a good point but is there any number the uh the one thing
I probably should bring this up now um we had some discussions at our office and also with Mr Fischer uh regarding the permeable pavers and what have you and I'm not saying that the perme able pavers don't allow some infiltration or what have you but our reading and we
discussed this a lot at the office uh of the current D regulations is that they really wouldn't would not change the impervious coverage percentage I know that sounds a little bit counterintuitive but based on the way the latest D rigs are written that's how
we interpreted it and we've had other applications uh that Mr Fischer's office has been involved in and that's how we treated that that's not the same you couldn't put them in but I would not recommend giving them credit on the impervious coverage because of what I just explained so when you had those
discussions did you guys talk about um hi trffic uh tractor trailers driving over uh typical pervious pavers do they stand up to that traffic and the weight well a lot of a lot of the uh perious
pavers have uh more than just the the block itself if you will depending on the traffic load that's going to be put on them uh you have a significant and substantial base material not only for the train drainage purposes but also to
sustain the weight of a particular type of vehicle that you might have on site and if you've got a site like this and a commercial setting where you're going to have tractor trailers loaded tractor trailers up to the legal weight of 80,000 pounds uh basically you want to
have the right substrata not only for drainage but also for the weight but again the big thing that I saw was when we discussed it at our office and we went over it with Mr fiser was that even if they did pointed out with some perious pav areas uh and it's our
understanding that it would not um mitigate the impervious coverage percentage and even if it did would you so I have two other things and I'll sorry I'm taking up uh a lot of the time but uh with the impervious or the
perious pavers is there any concern that if they were more perious more effective um at transmitting surface materials uh subsurface is that actually what you want adjacent and near the Germany Flats
area and Wellhead protection zone or would you prefer that and is there any kind of uh Direction um to the detention Basin in this particular uh plan I think in this particular
application and I asked Mr Fischer to verify this in the Basin up front does that have a sand layer in the bottom yes it does all right the one thing I I professionally and personally like about the sand layer in the bottom it's visible uh basically you can see it do
its work if you will and that while the drainage and the salts and the Sands come in the debris and leave matter and what have you come into that Basin you literally can see it accumulate on the sand and then as it becomes uh and this would be part of the operation and maintenance manual that I mentioned
before uh it'd be a situation where the applicant can go in and have his contractor or his maintenance staff clean that out rake that out clean up the sand and or add more sand as necessary so it's something that's visible it's one of those situations in
this particular case where you're going to see it every day you drive into the site you're going to see the situation the one I always look at uh over in Hampton Township for example on 206 there's a tractor supply and on the left- hand side of that building they've got a similar type Basin with the sand
layer for water quality as far as filtering out the dissolved total dissolved solids and that when you can see when it's time for him to do the maintenance work not saying that this applicate wouldn't do it but with the uh pavers there's sometimes there's
maintenance involved as far as vacuuming it and that type of thing and the concern I have with that is uh we're not necessarily there to see it visibly did they vacuum it or not and over a period of time is it going to uh stand the test of time as far as being able to function
properly and be maintained properly that type of thing so for my case I prefer the way Mr Fischer has it shown here on the plan with the sand bottom that you can readily see and maintain fairly easily so like a rain Garden or a bios
swell would hide a lot of sins but you're not getting away with that with a detention I think the ringard gens and what have you are are a good feature but they're for relatively small areas and right now we're talking about a whole parking lot and building so I think you
end up with something larger than a rain Garden for this case you end up with this infiltration detention Basin is is there I didn't see it in here but is there uh a like grading or some kind of pipe system conveying uh the sheet flow
to the basin yeah they're basically are stormm drainage inlets that will convey the water ultimately to the Basin and then there's an outlet structure that regulates the flow coming out before it ties into the existing storm drainage in
Park Lake Road all right my last question for now sorry um I did want to ask because it piqu my interest that uh roofs are not dirty for uh for storm water
and Catherine is that true generally still or is that accepted I believe that's still true as far as treatment what water quality not water quantity only because I come from a place uh where there was a large
um Bakery with a flat roof and seagulls would like to Avail themselves and so it was actually determined to be a massive uh Point load uh input and so my concern you know they're not baking
anything there so presumably they're not going to have but we do have a lot of birds uh on L Mohawk and Surround so I would kind of question whether that's totally true with phosphates and nitrates but I think in this case and Mr fiser can correct me if I'm wrong the
roof area is coming to the infiltration and detention Basin anyway that is correct it's being treated regardless it was just a point of of statement okay yeah no sorry didn't mean to pick on you it's just chairwoman I just have one clarification task the colorized exhibit
um everywhere that's green is that going to be grass cover actually yes okay that can what I was trying to say before was the the way the landscape area ratio is calculated and the way landscape area is is defined is really that anything that's not building and parking and
storm water basin is essentially contributing towards that ratio and so I if if your 19% is only limited to those hatched areas underneath the Landscaping on your plan then I think it's actually higher than 19% I would agree with you to that would that also include the in
slope into the Basin can I can I be as aggressive as to say that as well anything that that it's not the sand layer level bottom if it's gr if it's grass it's perious yeah that's what I was asking too was I would I would 19%
it closer to 40% I think actually make it but eyeballing it you're close you're pretty close I'd say okay whatever that number may be I think seeking the waiver if the board is acting on this application tonight or plans to if we get through all the testimony I think
including it as a waiver for a level of protection may be helpful but knowing that they're going to to basically update the plan to show what the real number is is is okay I just have a quick question so not to beat a dead horse but we were talking
about the potential of reduction of the sidewalk can you clarify that which side of the sidewalk were we talking about um flip back to this plan it's probably a little bit easier to the entire sidewalk itself is 6 feet
wide uh we're proposing as an option that we can take the front two feet of the sidewalk and pull it back hold the back line that's adjacent to the building so you still have that two foot overhang for the parking spaces that are adjacent to it and then once you get
past um the the unstriped 11 spaces just eliminate the the sidewalk Al together because it's it's a sidewalk essentially to Nowhere right because I'm I mean I'm thinking again eyeballing it you're you're pretty close but if you do that
you you're 100% on point 1% between that and moving the dumpster enclosure into P yeah I I think you would be well within that you know that range and you probably wouldn't need a waiver at all you're still going to need it you're still going to need it because the
requirements 25 well right right I'm just saying I'm saying we're going to I'm sorry 40 40 um and we're coming in at 51 right now we get it down to about 50% and and over still no I was talking about in terms of your your landscape oh
oh oh sorry um yes you're right that you we would create a little additional Green Space there as well right so I mean like you that that would be one less waiver you would correct you answered my question thank you I love when I do
that set thank you I'm good might have all been asked an answer y thank Ron yeah um so last time that we met we talked about the actual square footage of the building I'm not sure I heard that anything talked about that up front so
when you look at the drawings it references a of 11,880 foot building which I do not believe includes the mezzanine so I think when you include the mezzanine it goes to 13,000 something square feet and I think that we had agreed to that last
time uh I I wasn't present for what was discussed we can um I I think we left it to the architect to discuss put that there okay great thanks but we did start to talk about it and then we kind of just stopped because we're at that
point okay um let me look real quick so in terms of of of the the generator so when it comes time to um install generator you'll come before the minor s plan subcommittee with the um the noise information and stuff and get
that approved absolutely yes thank you um what is there's a reserved area up in the the northern Corner what is that for right up on the top the top Corner you'll see it's marker box up top left
there's a rectangle oh it's a so it's a reserve disposal bed area it's a requirement uh per the setic code okay um relative to parking so um Min s say 20 Park spaces proposed but nine are
going to be on striped so if they're on striped are they really parking spaces or is it just black top I I I'll re-clarify the statement to say that there's room for an additional nine parking spaces so so so right now you're really proposing 11 parking
spaces 11 striped parking SP 11 Stripes so that was so if they're not striped they're not parking spaces so it would be 11 so so the waiver would be for 11 to whatever the requirement is right yes
um and we we said did did you say that uh tractor trailers would not be accessing the the the parking lot no that's tractor trailer can navigate safely around the entire building so um so where would they Park and load and
unload if they were to to need to unload currently on on the first sheet of the colorized exhibit that you have right um where the overhead loading bay doors are the UPG bay doors are they would pull up right in of there which is there's areas that
are noted on the plans two areas noted on the plan is 12x 30 loading loading areas they would effectively pull up in front of that area so the entire area is effectively a loading zone so is that is that I'm going to look to some help from from Dave here is that going to be large
enough for to to do that or do we need additional waivers here or how does that work from what I understand about the testimony um depending on what the deliver is and where the material that's being delivered would fit within the
proposed building that's the that would be the determining Factor on which overhead door they would pull up to I think it's basically uh parallel parking on that entire side of the building and it's not so much that they've got additional volume as much as they want
to minimize the amount of travel time inside the building with a forklift or whatever so you feel that would that the spaces that are there would be sufficient based based on the Staggering of the the the track tractor Trails coming on site I'm not sure inter think a question
so so when I look at it at a traed trailer space I think it needs to be much larger than what's been provided on the plan so so the concern is from a from a safety perspective if a tractor trailer would to come on on site are the spaces there large enough to accommodate
it uh effectively what would probably be required for for a tractor trailer would be double the size of one of those spaces but again I'll pay you back off of what Mr Simmons said because it's what what's been talked about here tonight um that tractor trailer that 12
by 60 footprint of that tractor trailer would pull up adjacent to any one of these bays out of the lane of traffic to to allow still circulation around the building offload and then pull away so you'll stagger you'll stagger it in a
way that there would only be one there at a time well I'm not going to St I'm not going to stagger anything because I'm not driving a truck but that's the idea uh yeah my my client my clients agreed to stagger the deliveries purposely for the per the reason that you're stating I misunderstood the
question I misunderstood the question no it's okay yes the the deliveries will be staggered per that timing wise um looking at the current ordinance I believe the current ordinance requires for two means of egress and Ingress can you comment on that I believe that's
more of an architectural correct uh into the building uh or into the parking it says Ingress egress so cther if you look at the what we did we do have two we do have two two door locations on the building regardless and it actually we have three
um there's one facing the parking lot one facing the front of the building and then there are multiple bay door or Multiple Man doors on the loading zone side can you do me a favor get a chance look at ordinance 18429 I4 and tell me do you feel that
design meets that standard and you don't have to do that right now look later okay okay um I'll put the aisle with um the building sign yes that's internally
lit uh believe that's the architect's design and that's it thanks okay my apologies I misunderstood your question no I probably could have questioned it put it to you better okay and um just going back to these tractor trailer size parking
stalls that are not provided there what happens if uh you sell the building down the road and they were not provided for they sell the building um I I mean under the current code they're going to
have to come back here as a new tenant so I I would imagine you'd have an opportunity to discuss with them what they could couldn't do but would there be room for them I I don't know who I don't know I don't think we know who the potential buyer of the building would be
to know whether or not there'd be room for them no no on the on the site here because it does call for tractor trailer parking stalls by each dock door section 18-4 29 5.5 um so they're not provided for
but is there room for them if need be I I I guess I I'd have to see the actual statute to understand what what the Stalls are referring to Katherine this was in your report maybe you can address
it yeah so the development standards under the Ed Zone in particular for storage and Warehouse uses have a number of design requirements um that are intended um for those uses in particular to help protect um the design of the site um the
one that Mr day was referring to um includes that there should be Ingress two means of Ingress egress into the site not to the building but to the site um which can include emergency access road um subject to approval by the the
Fire official um the other one is there's a specific requirement for tractor trailer parking um per dock doors now these are rollup doors they're not necessarily doc they're a little bit different um in that so um but it does
have a requirement basically that per dock door you have a trailer parking so that for staging purposes now um you know part of the the dilemma I had in in in writing the report was really um and I think I included it but hasn't haven't asked the
question was you know is this confirm if this is a warehouse or storage use we've heard it's kind of a a quas showroom that it's not going to be Distributing material but you're going to basically be you know using as a as a place to show things which is not
your typical Warehouse you usually don't have visitors to come into a warehouse so um part of the dilemma I was having was I think it does it is a permitted use in the zone um which was you know clarified by the fact that the planning board approved it previously but I didn't know if it if it required the
standards under the Ed zone for storage and Warehouse uses based on what they described um because some of these are uh design standards meant for likely meant for larger build or a larger use than this than a 12,000 sare building
nevertheless um I do think that um the applicant should address them in you know abundance of caution um to make sure because it was approved originally as just the warehouse and the showroom is only in the mezzanine if I understand
it but we could get that testimony from the architect well I I don't want to Pro he'll provide that testimony that's all that's all I'm saying why don't we get the architect on so he can uh go over exactly how the building looks and maybe when you see it it might open up some
doors for uh the Border I think that would be helpful I have a lot of my questions were related to the architect so um let's hear more about that and then we can kind of run back to the to the standards and the and the organs and then the the only other thing question I had is the on stripe spaces that um are
there um if you're go you we can Bank them um can you plant instead of Paving over it can you use that as additional landscape that section just expand out a little bit so you'll remove the sidewalk
in that area there and and just stand the landscape out to that rectangular area yeah and that was kind of my answer to Mr 's question it's a give and take we'd be happy to do that but we were trying to get closer to the parking requirement but we'd be happy to remove that because we know what we need for
the um right but if you Bank them and later on you need them then you just pave over it understood when you need B absolutely we'd be happy to do that okay very good that's all I had to public just your name for the record
please that's Rod Northshore in Sparta um I'm a little confused I'm Sor L but if it's a warehouse I microphone oh sorry um if it's a showroom why are there tractor trailers is it a warehouse or a
showroom uh I'm late I'm sorry so I'm just trying to get caught up that was that was addressed by the the applicant um it's I I'll try to speak correctly for him um essentially that there's going to be deliveries to the property
to set up for for the um for the display for um well client we can have our client my client answer that question absolutely okay again I apologize I was really late I take Route 80 and there's a sinkhole so well before we do that do you have any questions for the engineer
yeah with the trucks and the dock doors are they parallel parking to the building and how are they going to get the stuff out like instead of backing up to like a door like how is that going to work so so the doors are at grade um so there's no uh 4
foot lower loading dock that they would offload in directly into the building so each each of the trucks should have like a lift Gator or or a forklift that's going to come and take the material off of the truck and then load it in directly into the building okay you answered a couple of them all in one
thing and then with I think you actually got them all by answering one of them you did all of it in one shot good night thanks Nino did you want to answer that sure question
it was as a warehouse or a showroom right so it it is a showroom the reason for the trucks would be delivery of our inventory uh a lot of that a lot of the product that we sell comes from overseas so it would be delivered in uh inter
modal containers that get unloaded okay sorry I'm late so I'm still trying to just oh no no worries at all I'm still confused here though because on your plans that you have up here A1 and A2 it says
10,395 square foot Warehouse shop and then office space 2,970 so is that warehouse shop is that correct well it would be the inventory of our product so 10,395 Square ft is for just inventory
and Warehouse correct and then the showroom and offices will be 2,970 square ft yes so very little of showroom well it would be office and showroom in that area yes and would that be upstairs away from
the warehouse it would be um towards the the front of the building it would be first and second floor yeah and again I think the architect will be able to break that he'll be able to show you the inside of the building so you can see exactly what space is going to be used for what but if you have three tractor
trailers coming every week they're they're getting offloaded and then Mr wingle shows up ceeling he likes he's that material is getting loaded into his commercial vehicles no that's not well
that was also factoring in uh any outgoing delivery like all of the that's all of the truck usage that we're talking about two to three deliveries per day or or pickups which is what I what which is what the testimony was and then there approximately of those two to three there's maybe three tractor
trailer trucks per week total that are delivering so yeah so maybe there's one on Monday maybe there's one on Thursday maybe there's one on Monday Tuesday Wednesday you know it it they're they're not it's not it's just however the person's or the company's delivering
them but it's a warehouse then right is the point for the architect yep um any other questions from the public I think it's a warehouse but I don't know there no better than I
do sorry that's not really a question but Jenny you're the only other public I just want to make sure I'm keeping track here we have a variance for impervious coverage a variance for lot area ratio a variance for dock doors
a waiver for parking a waiver for minimum parking space size potentially a waiver for landscape plan do I have it the one you had for lot area is lot area ratio for parking for
parking just to clarify so that's two set but it's still a waiver yeah I just wanted to clarify because there's one there's not a waiver for the building but there's a requirement for building so just want to clarify and then there are some other requirements per the new
22 21 ordinance for reports Dave quickly or briefly mentioned them do you have them were they received received a traffic impact statement Community impact statement environmental impact statement okay so they just weren't attached to the off to the uh
online okay received in January okay thank you that's it for now when can we talk about the environmental and Community impact i' ask the if they have a witness or someone talk about it you have a witness for that uh for
the the environmental impact I believe Mr Fisher stud author of that document yes sorry I have one more question if that's okay sure yeah one because I was just asking because it only states that it's one a one-story
building in those reports a mezzanine is not considered a story for building code so that might be why they they call it that let's hear The Architects okay so I'm sorry the other question was um and Ron Ron asked my question to
Ingress and egress um requirement is that also going to be requiring a variance we're going to touch on that once we hear from the architect thank you thank you okay yeah can we take a 5 minute break as you're switching
out I'll watch it smarty e e e e e e e e e
okay ready resume session please all right thank you ladies and gentlemen um so I have uh the architect here uh who's ready to present the plans uh to the board um uh Mr War you've been uh sworn
in um if you can please State your credentials for the record yes uh my name is Fred wara I'm from a licensed architect at Fox architectural design uh my background for education is I have a masters of architecture from tane University in 1996
and I received my New Jersey license in May of 2000 it's current in good standing I've have not testified before this board before but I've testified before other boards Jefferson Wharton Roxbury East Hover hackstown and
others uh and I offer Mr War uh as an expert in the area of architecture any questions anyone okay we accept you okay all right so I'm going to walk through the the building so this is the front side of the
building on the right hand side of the page these drawings I have up here are the same ones that were submitted to the board no changes made to them so in the front area this portion here on the first level on the mezanine level this is that showroom and office area that
was talked about so this area here on the first level is 1485 Square ft same thing for the mezan is 1485 ft it Stacks directly above them on the first level there's showroom there's a main entry area where you come
in off the uh off the front here there's a showroom area on the first level in the front couple of handicap accessible bathrooms office space and and other uh ancillary spaces on the upper level up the stairs there's an another showroom
and then towards the other side is a conference area conference break room area area so again that's 1485 ft 1485 ft then on the remainder of the first level going towards the rear of the building that is the warehouse portion
of the building which is one is 10,395 square ft and that's a high it's like a twostory essentially High storage area for high racking now when you add up all those numbers together the total square footage of usable space between all the levels is
13,36 65 ft back in the warehouse area on the one side as was testified to before we have six Overhead Doors again for that safety concern for moving product in and out of the facility and also in in addition to that we have a number of additional
access doors one on this side three on this side out of the warehouse as well as the one coming out the front of the entry over here so we have multiple points of Ingress and egress in and out of the building uh again to meet the building codes and to make it efficient
for everyday use the other thing about I know this came up as a question previously uh as far as the building areas and the uses and the separation of uses here there is no requirement for sprinkers sprinklers in this building as
per the building code okay this building does not require that it's under the threshold for the storage use um which would be the only potential trigger on this building as far as sprinklers go but any approval or uh if the board
looks kindly upon the application this evening any approval would be conditioned upon um the uh con construction official uh making a determination whether or not sprinklers were required I just want to make that clear um so that there's no question
about that okay so that essentially is the plan layout of the building three these are the building elevations as submitted so this entry area this is the
this is the front entry area and this is that entry door into that uh first level or the lower level vestibule area the look of the two-story facade wraps around the two sides to Encompass both the main level and the mezzanine
level and to be able to highlight that area that's done in a separate stucco finish we also in this same area utilized large Windows aluminum framed glass windows to be able to let a lot of
visibility again these are the showroom areas and these are also the call it the office and um conference areas to let a lot of visibility into the building as well as as light to promote um you know a better interior environment inside the building
as was testified to before on the front also wrapping around the two sides in the area of that of that uh stucco area we have a suspended metal canopy again to highlight the front and also to
provide more of a pedestrian scale as we enter the building so there's a roof covering that's closer to you almost like a canopy coming over the top of you as you enter the building this same type of detailing of this entry element on the front is also duplicated on the side one entry
side AIS that we talked about on on this side of the building again using the same kind of uh finish the same type of size of glass the same type of canopy to be able to shelter shelter the entry material wise we're looking at stucco in
those entry uh areas as I mentioned in addition to that down around the the entire base of the building we have a split face block uh base which anchors the building to the ground and it's consistent all the way around uh other areas on the sides and
the rear they are going to be modern insulated metal panels they're contemporary style they're going to be installed with concealed Fasteners and they're going to have some Shadow lines on them to give them some visual interest uh these are not the old style
Cor ated metal panels that you see on like old um you know older type uh you know down and dirty cheap industrial buildings it's not that type of panel also in addition we do have some clear story windows in the upper portion
of the warehouse area and those are highlighted with a contrasting uh band that wraps around and an in addition to that we have some other banding to be able to highlight and cap certain areas
uh of the of both the stucco area and of the uh panel area the roof is going to be a standing seam metal and in the areas again to kind of punctuate those entry areas in the areas
of those entries those roofs have been designed with a little bigger overhang to be able to make a variation in the shape of the roof and be able to create some different fascia Heights on the front facade here of in the center is a
self-illuminated box sign which as was mentioned previously whereas 65.4 square feet is allowed for the sign we are proposing 30 square feet also the building height it's shown actually on the A1 sheet here the
building height is in compliance with the ordinance requirement for maximum height okay I know one of the concerns and it was mentioned in uh in uh at least one of the reports is the adherence to the
design standards in the ordinance so this building was designed to comply with those or ordinance design standards and there are five main criteria the first criteria is the ability to reduce large building volumes and we've done this by utilizing a variety of materials
and different kind of elements to be able to break up the building into smaller pieces pieces number two is that the entry ways should be focal points again we did the same we did that also with material but also also by providing these canopies to be able to show where these entry areas
are located third one is either sheet or corrugated metal uh materials for facades are prohibited again these are modern insulated metal panels using them with a varying a variety of finishes
again in addition to the uh split face block uh base and this kind of configuration gives it more of a clean and contemporary look than you know you would have in one of those older kind of corrugated metal type buildings uh item number four criteria
number four was that the mechanical equipment is to be ground mounted there is no proposed uh mechanical equipment to be mounted to the facades or to the roof of this building un proposed and number five is
that the facades are to be of the same quality and the same configuration all the way around the building so you don't just have like a false front and the rest of it is is not attractive we've utilized the same materials wrapping around this entire building okay that's essentially the
configuration of the building also um I've had an opportunity to speak with my client uh and to reduce the variances um my client has agreed to just do five bay doors as opposed to the F six that we've requested um so we will
reduce it to five bay doors which does reduce the variances um and so those bay doors that you see there they're going to only be five and they're going to be evenly spaced uh within the same area all right that's
basically the presentation on the building I'm open to any kind of questions no professionals have questions I did have just a couple items again from my report of October 23rd 2024 I noted on ch1 it shows a potential
future demising wall location in the warehouse area are there any plans right now for two tenants in the future in the building or why was that no put on there that was an early uh discussion regarding the billing I believe since then the
decision has been made to have a single tenant we understand and I believe the applicant understands that if there was the this if there was a future decision to maybe split this they'd have to come back before the board anyway so that would not be implemented at this time that be that'll actually be removed from
the plan okay and by the same token I note on C3 it shows four additional potential future window locations yeah so on here actually there were total of five of them uh so the intent of that is to
provide the FR at the point of the time where the building is built to provide the framing in the wall to be able to accommodate that but the intent is to just cover them over so that would be like a future maybe they change the configuration of the inside and maybe they need a little bit more natural
light at the ground level it give give them the ability to be able to poke openings without having to like reconstruct the whole side of the building so basically prep for an if and when in the future without having to do substantial structural work correct okay and that's all I have on the building
Madam chair thank you um I think based upon the architect's testimony you know we've kind of clarified that this is a warehouse use um you know majority of that that space on the floor is Warehouse use um I do think that there
are some requirements not that the architect needs to address but that we kind of brought up briefly maybe we bring up the engineer again just to talk through them um related to some of the site design not the building design the site design um as far as the building design and the
requirements um under the ordinance in the Ed Zone I believe architect's testimony did cover them and I appreciate that you did cover all of those those items um as far as the building materials um just one clarification it doesn't permit exposed
metal regardless of the high quality of the difference it doesn't allow that on the on the Frontage of the building so they have complied with that they have used a different use stuck on the front with the with the canopy the hanging canopy um and then I do I do agree with the testimony that
the um construction of the rest of the sides of the building have taken into account what they use on the Frontage and that it although it's not the same exact material they have Incorporated those design elements into the building and have given a significant consideration to the massing of building by providing some of those design
elements on the other sides of the building um Dave took a few of my questions about the future uses um and I I think oh my other question was related to the sign um I know you it
was noted that it was a self illuminated box sign um so it's going to have a Raceway behind the letters then it it would be a box probably about six inches thick with backlit behind it with a signed plaque that goes inside of it
okay so with their logo on it okay um aesthetically I think that the the frontage of the building is has been designed nicely I think um the Box sign I I wish this was colorized to see how it looked because I I I do think it could look better and this is just an aesthetic comment not a variance relief for anything like that I do think pin
mounted letters or something like that could be considered by the applicant um just for aesthetic to match the the the nice design of the front building but again that's not that's just a um an optional comment um oh I it was mentioned before by the
chairwoman the mezzanine that this was um the mezzanine was a second story so she had brought that up I I had kind of responded to that I just you know I'm I'm not an architect I'm familiar with building code but can you just clarify that the Mez how the mezanine area is
classified for building code yes the uh in the building code if you're under a certain uh percentage of the floor that's below it it's considered a mezzanine in this case here we're well underneath that criteria I don't remember off the top of my head if it's like onethird or one quarter of the
floor below but um you can see we're we're well below that so it's not considered a story correct it's not considered a story it's going to be considered a mezzanine as per the as per the building code okay thank you for the clarification there I I don't think I have anything else for that's witness thank
you start with you this time on okay um thanks for the clarification on the the square footage so we're saying it's 13365 and the sprinkle system will be determined by the construction official um in terms of the septic application does that need to be looked at to make
sure we've got the right number there 13,000 versus 11,000 I don't know if that makes a a difference or not but want to make sure they've got the right information um Mike do you want to uh answer that sure the flow is calculated based on on the
different uses and in this case the the commerci sorry I'm getting a little echo in this case the commercial use which is the office space is what's going to designate that um it was a larger office space if I remember correctly in the
previous application so the flow that was calculated before is kind of overestimated at this point so so it it it it's sufficient as where I'm getting in okay so so you want over my head I apologize so so I guess the question is does the application for the septic
reference 11,880 square feet anywhere have to look at the actual applications could you and just to make sure that whatever number is there is the right number yes I can check that okay thanks
um then I guess I want to go back to uh the part so and I think we may have addressed this already so so nine spaces are going to be unstrip but it looks like at this point what we're going to do is is we're going to uh change that to an impervious
coverage that's correct yep we've agreed we'll Bank those spots and we will make that grass or Landscaping whatever the board chooses until it needs to be developed if it ever needs to be developed thank you um and again appreciate the uh reducing the number of
of um of the bay doors to five does that give you any flexibility to possibly look at maybe adding in one tractor trailer space because the way they were staggered there there wasn't enough room but if you would go with with with five
versus six is there now room to put one if if recognize the will be tractor Trail is coming onto the site Mike do you think uh you can do with that calculation on the Fly for us U we'll take some more questions and while he's doing that thanks okay Y and I guess the the
Ingress egress did we make a determination there if if a waiver is required uh we didn't we didn't figure that out we'll address that I guess at some point here I think we're gonna have to recall the the engineer to go over some of the things which is what I was that's why I was gonna hold my questions
to have Mr Fisher come back up y um and the building sign so um so it's an sounds like it's an internal if I'm understand an internal interally lit box sign right so which that that's prohibited in the Ed zone so um would
you consider maybe looking at like a different option there something that would that would be um in compliance with the edone signage yeah my the the applicant's perfectly fine with a pin mounted sign as was requested by uh the planner Katherine and that's what like
like a Halo Type L sign yeah it's like the letters are each individually mounted and then they just have light behind them so it create like a halo effect yep that's yeah just follow up before we go on that would come back to the minor site plan subcommittee if it was approved as part of this application tonight then I don't
think it would need to but we're open to that seen it it's something that they're going to do differently I think it's gonna be the same size as what they're showing it will be the same size What's It Gonna it was it was suggested um I actually thought this was pin mounted when I first saw it I didn't the Box the
the the line around it was so um we we can keep the Box sign we just um we just I just heard the planner suggest the pin mounted would would be better for this uh based on what the architect had testified to so I looked back at my client and he gave me the thumbs up so
uh we'll do the pin mounted um and we'll you know hope if we don't have to come back before the board that makes the most sense um but uh certainly the you know the committee can review it and if they want to maybe make a change to it they be we' be happy to um you you know
we be open to that thank you the sign to us we want to do what spart is looking for for sure and and I would add to that that it would be the same size and same configuration same location essentially look the same but not be in a box it
would be individual letters okay that's it for me thank you Ernie I don't have any questions I'm good thank you Rob I have one question but it's more for the applicant going
back to the the last meeting we had given the amount of storage space that that you're get your warehouseing there we' only talked about deliveries but what about trucks bringing product out you using truck to trailers or is it more smaller box trucks make no it's uh
generally outbound trucks uh range from pickup size to um smaller box truck Isuzu but that was the idea behind the the six doors is that right thank you might have been answered um from the
public anybody yes no all right thank you I guess we're going to bring the engineer back then for start with Catherine with questions thank you um I appreciate you coming
back up based upon the architect's testimony there are some design standards in the Ed zon particularly for warehouse uses that just need to be addressed add um one thing I do want to clarify is that the the development standards for those uses um do have um restrictions on the ratio of dock doors
that are permitted but these we actually have a definition for a dock door and a drive-in door dock doors are elevated above grade so that a truck could back into it and just open up the back B of the truck and um offload stuff these are at grade so they're considered drive- IND doors which we have another
definition for so I do not think that they are beholden to the dock door requirement um know that they have since adjusted their number of doctors to kind of lower relief but there is no relief required so I would leave it up to the applicant if they want to but based upon
Ron's comment I don't think it's a bad idea to potentially basically smush together the two loading spaces and create a larger loading space um particularly because deliveries are going to be staggered so if there's no need for two loading spaces if you are going to adjust the
acrade doors um rollup doors then maybe one loading space that's 10x 50 would be more appropriate um if you could fit a 10 by 50 and a 12 by 30 you could do that as well but I think it would be a little it would be excessive um sorry no
no you're you can jump in yeah I I I believe that we probably would be closer to being able to allow for a 12 x 50 assuming that we're not going to evenly distribute the doors if we're going to reconfigure them to optimize that loading space area I think we can get
close to 12 by 5050 if not fully there okay um and I think that you know two loading spaces are required for the ordinance but I would I would recommend that even just the one loading space at that larger size so it would be a technical waiver but it would be at the request of the Professionals of the
board to do that if the board agrees um and as far as the um the requirements sorry for um the Ingress and egress um I I don't I mean just looking at this I I don't it doesn't appear that there's an
opportunity even for emergency route um this is a you know um a more modest sized building but and I don't think any of the neighbors have them but I leave it up to the board of how they want to um work with the applicant on that um and see if maybe if they want to leave
it to the Fire official to see if it's it's a requirement um that would require them to come back before the board um and mostly I say that because the Fire official is going to be the safety exper here and so maybe they have some input on it in the future as a condition of any approval so good Captain just for
clarification so if they were to to leave the design the way it is that would require a design waiver for for the one erress instead of two or variance depending on how the bo look at the right answer is yes correct okay thank you and I think it's a variance just by
where it is in the ordinance thank you that's all I had I don't know if the applicant wants to respond to that or the board wants to chime in or give their thoughts I I have no input on that okay anybody
else I have nothing else at this time any other questions that we have just see if there's any more from the board yet I'm just still looking at my notes about yes the public is welcome to ask as well based on the testimony we've heard
how can you ex um overcome the required the requirement in in the ordinance for the Ed Zone where it says per under permitted per principal permitted uses um where did it
go storage buildings and Warehouse which shall not include distribution centers fulfillment centers um the testimony appears to be that that is what your intended use is
so how do how does that get overcome I I I think initially uh the we weren't looking at this as a warehouse um if if if the board feels that this is in fact a warehouse based on what they are seeing in this application then I
think we need to revisit the application uh In a Different Light um but this was really intended to be a showcase for their higher-end implements and then yes things would be shipped in and shipped out but it is a showcase for the
retailers to come and look at these products that's what it's designed for um generally when you have a warehouse and I mean you know I'm just I'm an attorney so I'm not a professional uh in in the sense that I can provide expert
testimony but generally when you go to a warehouse you don't have a showroom a warehouse is somewhere where you know things are shipped in and things are shipped out but they don't have clients come there and look at their product or material um that's what we're doing here that's what the mezzanine is for someone
comes there to look at these grills to look at these pizza ovens to look at the other fireplaces and things that they're selling specifically and to accommodate that they have this extra storage space in the building um and so that's that's
where we were approaching this from so in your A1 sheet the architect says building areas Warehouse 10,395 Square ft office showroom 1,485 Square ft so it just it kind of
feels like tail waging the dog calling it a showroom but I guess you're characterizing it more as like kind of a commercial Costco building material for commercial clients they come they load up it's like a it's
like a retail showroom yeah I think that's a question specifically for my client I'll let him testify to that but that sounds it sounds about right just to clarify no customers will be coming there looking ordering and leaving with the product the the
showroom is set up as a as a TR facility for we're 100% business to business so it's set up as a training facility for prospective new customers or customers to learn our new products and things like that so it is an integral part of what we're doing there um generally they
would not be coming in saying you know I'll take one of those and leaving with it that would not be the operation now well but I mean like you used wingle as an example so commercial customer is what I'm talking about I'm not talking about they would go and they would order a product and leave with it and they
take a couple pallets yeah it would be like a you know four barbecues to a pallet or whatever it is yeah okay and load up their Mason dump truck and head out yeah uh most of the time it's in oversized Vans and box trucks but yes okay and your architect had testified that the ceiling height was had been
increased from the last approval I guess for you know pallet stacking so the the the floor area where the warehouse is that's going to be used for pallet stacking right for storage of product right yes this the showroom is going to be the only the the the, 1400t area is
going to be the only area where people are coming in to look at product correct right they're not going to go to the warehouse floor respectfully to Mr bendor the the the the plans show Warehouse what we're hearing is it's a traditional Warehouse per the
ordinance description of a warehouse or the definition of a warehouse this meets the definition of warehouse It's a permitted use in the Ed Zone uh to Derek's question we also have definitions for distribution center fulfillment center which are specifically prohibited uses
in this Zone and some other industrial zones those definitions this does not mean just because a a site a warehouse does distribute something doesn't make it a distribution center um and that's been characterized and identified and recognized at the state level about
warehousing and different Warehouse uses distribution centers um per our ordinance is really about the configuration of the building the size of the building the way that it's operated the velocity who it's going to um similar to and fulfillment center
very similar situation um I'm not trying to I know she posed the question to the applicant um and and I'm really just trying to clarify from from what I'm hearing it sounds like it's a warehouse it sounds like the operations are of a warehouse um it's business to business I'm glad we got the testimony that it's
not you know going to like a it's not a it's not a third party Logistics operator which be would be closer a distribution center it's a warehouse per the definition um I don't I mean we've we've hit on that the Ed Zone has certain requirements for warehousing which I think might have been missed in
the course of this but we're we're addressing them on at this hearings but um as as far as I interpreted it it's a warehouse did you read the definition for a distribution center sure and you want me to read Phil filment Center as well or just distribution a distribution center is a building generally
charactered by one doctors on two sides or more two is primarily used for short-term stage of product and relatively High Velocity distribution from the facility to multiple locations including direct to customers and three a higher ratio of non-t trctor trailer vehicle traffic to tractor trailer
traffic generated per square foot of G gross area and also high volume of TR tractor trailer traffic and then fulfillment center definition is a type of building for thirdparty Logistics that receives processes and fills customer orders on behalf of
retailers that is usually Freight for final consumption fulfillment centers are generally characterized by one high turnover of inventory largely direct to customers two may have the presence of multiple mezine levels three require a higher ratio of on-site parking for employee vehicles and non-t trctor
trailer delivery vehicles and also have a high volume of traffic and then Warehouse I guess I'll just provide that one as well the definition for warehouse is a building where raw materials or finished goods are stored where the
primary purpose of the facility is extended storage of a product and typically have a low volume of TR tractor trailer and non-t trctor trailer vehicle traffic any building where storage of product is the primary use that contains stock doors on not more than one and a partial second side of the building shall be considered a
warehouse not a distribution center so I don't see it as a dist Center um but now now I'm questioning based on the applicant's testimony is it really a warehouse you know so what's the permitted use in the applicant's
perspective that this would fall into I know you said if we choose to view it that way how do you view it I I view it as the showroom and yes they're storing their product there but again it's a low trffic use of the of the um of the lot
so so if if it is a showroom is that a permitted use Jack I mean not technically no what's that not technically no so do we need do we want to get a a read from the Zone I how do how do we resolve this the the
the board can interpret its Zone ordinance here you don't have to send it to the board of adjustment if they were looking for a straight interpretation that's where they would have gone initially but they filed an application here and this board can interpret its ordinance with respect to this application but I I will say I just want
to repeat the um the permitted uses in the zone include storage buildings right um and warehousing and you heard the definition of warehousing right so storage buildings and warehousing with wholesale storage so
would you say you have wholesale storage you're dealing yes company to company right so I I would think that that fits this permitted use definition of storage building and warehousing with wholesale
storage and then the the retail portion it's not really retail to the individual customer right it's part of the wholesale sale so um it's it's like it's accessory to having a warehouse there
would be zero retail yeah there's no retail I mean the common sense you thought of retail is that a customer comes into a store and buys something and walks out with it right and and small things as well so I don't that's
not really what he's described I don't think I'm still somewhat at a loss here because I hear all this but then want to hear what the applicant saying I believe applicant saying it it is not a warehouse it is a um
display display area I like I like to think about logistics if no one comes into the showroom for a week what's happening is the back empty no there's product being stored there the primary function of this site may have the intention of showcasing things to have
people come in but if nobody comes in let's say they just look at it online there's still stuff being stored there there's still stuff being Warehouse in 10,000 ft of space a significant amount of stuff that's a warehouse to me I mean that's my opinion I don't want to conflict with the if the applicant wants
to say what they think it is that's fine let them let you know let them say that but my opinion to the board is that this is this is a warehouse It's been labeled on the plans as a warehouse we've heard some testimony that sounds like a warehouse I don't that that's my opinion
let me ask you a quick question on for the uh showroom part of it you know I'm asked as the applicant I think you just that it's basically there for them to see a new product that you might have brought in and and and there's some
assembly required so right A lot of times with these products so they may have to so there would be none of that there it's it's for new products and it's for uh education on the products because some of the they're a little bit more complicated than other you know competitive units right you're talking
about like M like those fireplace or grills you put together and things like that yeah in particular like learning learning the the features and benefits of the barbecues selling things like that okay and I we I I I guess the way that I was trying to phrase it was that
is it is for storage and we weren't looking at this as a warehouse but we were looking at it as storage and we've been saying that from the beginning that's what Warehouse does so but well yeah but I I guess I guess my my the difference is there's more than just just that use that's all understood and
there is a definition in the code weren't trying to hide anything with what we were doing with the application we were storing on site we have the we as a TR facility but we that ttim and what I wanted to he from the architect what I was holding up was I didn't know
if the warehouse floor the 10,000 ft was basically going to be staged like a Bath Fitter store or a kitchen cabinet store or that you know I didn't know if this if it was going to be a high volume storage of material or they were going to use that as open space basically to show off the stuff I wasn't sure from
the testimony previously and from here and from the application materials if it was a basically a big showroom um from the testimony and from the from all the professionals it sounds like they're going to be storing a lot of stuff and also showing some of that thing those things in the office will will will they
will potential customers will they be viewing the goods in the area designated as a warehouse or is that strictly going to be boxes of stuff or what no they will they will not be viewing it there it's a it's they're going to have
pallets so I don't will be pet okay okay okay thank you anything else going still to the use so what is the principal use because I don't understand how they can have two principal uses so a warehouse can have an office
space associated with it it's not like they have a dentist office in the front and a warehouse in the back it's all one use and I don't think I think the office is interconnected to the to the warehouse so that's my opinion if the applicant wants to speak or the board has any feelings on that they can share those and the other thing to read would
be a Trucking terminal definition oh would you like me to read that would the board like me to read that what was the Trucking terminal a place it is defined as a place where products goods and materials are unloaded from one inbound Source
such as a tractor trailer or rail car and then either stored on a short-term basis or directly moved onto another outbound Transportation source and the primary storage of any products goods and materials occurs within a tractor trailer or rail car may be referred to as cross docking do that definition have uh any
reference to the shape of the building or the alignment of the dock doors that one does not um the only other one that does that I did not read was parcel Hub would you like me to read that one a type of Warehouse that typically serves as regional and local Freight
forwarder facilities for time sensitive shipments via air freight and ground carriers that is generally characterized by a building with the following one 150 ft to 200 to 300 feet wide excuse me and two access to dock doors provided on two or more opposite sides of the building and up to all four sides this may
include tractor trailer maintenance wash or fueling facilities so if you had to pick one primary use what would it be uh if I can speak with my client uh you know just to confirm for
e e I have a question may I ask a question right if um if the applicant decides that it is a warehouse do they have to go back and revise the application how does that work Warehouse is a permitted use it's a
permitted use so but because they didn't apply that way does that matter we just amend it to be that they're not they can't have two uses right so why don't we wait for them to
come back so that he can if they the answer and object to it if he wants to but um would they need a use variance if yeah okay want respond if they were proposing
two principal uses on the site then yes they would need a use variance thank you if they were proposing two princip uses on the site I I went I went through uh our initial application uh to the planning board and it specifically references
offices showroom uh and storage um and the principal use of the of the building is storage because it's the largest portion of the building that's being used but certainly there's office space and there is showroom space in accordance with what we've discussed
this evening that's been the testimony if the board feels that we need a use variance for this we would be happy to go before the land use board with that application but if the board wants to act in it based on the testimony because they feel confident that the majority of
the prop of the building is being used for storage and there is office and showroom space then we' be happy for the board to vote on it this evening um but it's it's entirely up to the board um if they don't don't feel comfortable moving forward with the application because they think it needs a use variance we'
be happy to take it to the land use board because it is principal use of warehouse and principal use of um showroom yes it's both right because
that's what has and we're not we're we don't we don't we're not trying to uh um get one past us yeah we're not we're being honest this is what we're using the building for yeah absolutely we just were talking if you came with two principal uses but how often are are
potential buyers coming to look at the the the equipment anyway again uh my client could provide that testimony because he he does it but I mean preferably every day but uh realistically um once to twice a week
we're having a pre-arranged visit it's it's never or very rarely I should say you know walk street it's generally that's what I mean it's I think I I think the testimony regarding the parking spaces alone tells us this is more of a storage facility you know it's
not it's not not retail space so they have they have pre- range appointments with you know other wholesaling companies probably you what it be Costco whatever it is or restaurant companies they're not small items they you know it's not like it's not uh
pallets of uh tissue paper right to need space just makes sense volume I'm sure you're hoping will pick up and you'll do more than the building that they're currently in is around 10,000 square F feet that's why
he purchased this property um thinking that he could build this building and then realized he needed to come before the planning board because one he was a new owner of the property and two there's there's new requirements um and so un you know that's why we're here
C could you if you could maybe one more time just let's talk about what what's in the back in the warehouse area um so if I understand the testimony it will be assembl hard assemble equipment
or go back it would be um you I hesitate to say unassemble bless you I hesitate to say unassembled but still boxed uh primarily bar barbecues um you know inserts for fire pits pizza ovens all
boxed nothing assembled on a cart ready to you know ready to use like that it would still be in its in its packaging uh then have to be assembled I guess on site um and then and expect them to be stored there for
approximately you know on average how long I mean it it differs to say some items move you know faster than others but generally if I'm not turning my inventory you know twice a year I have a problem thank you and Will some of the
customers let's say they've come in and they've seen the um the product and it gets shipped and now they want reorders they don't come back they would do that online or how would that work so because you want to turn it over yeah we build showrooms in our customers uh yards as
well in our customers uh not yards uh buildings as well like just a barbecue on display for them um a lot of times it goes hand inand with the paper displays that are being installed um so it's you'll have you know maybe once a year they'll come by a an existing
distributor or an existing customer will come by to have a on- hour session and lunch on new products we're offering or changes to existing products but the same customer wouldn't be there you know week after week after week
generally so so this is I think what we're all getting at is this this is more of a a sales room for for retail than it is a you call it a showroom but I mean it's it's really just like a like I said a
training facility and a and a sales yeah display within your building correct because what we found the the our thought process behind it was we're not selling you know Home Depot brand barbecues we're selling very expensive higher end units that require
in advance sale it requires the people to be able to speak to the technical aspects of it and things like that so we find we have better success when we spend more time on Education and Training with the uh the wholesaler of the product than if not is it like a
Central Supply Spa block without trying to I mean essentially that but at high volume yeah exactly like no retail like Central Supply could buy a barbecue there because they're an existing Nikola customer but it would that as well as you know a a home in hear shop that
sells you know fireplace units or wood pellets or things like that okay so it's just that next level yeah exactly so where do we go well I mean the board does then have to determine if there's two principal uses right if the
showroom if you were to determine that the showroom is a separate by itself principal use um and warehousing is a principal use um but or the board could determine
that um you know the showroom use as we've heard it described is accessory to what's being stored in the building and warehoused and when you you know again the permitted use or storage buildings
and warehousing with wholesale storage and when you look at warehousing definition it says that the a building where raw materials are finished um or finished goods are stored right and um
and where the primary purpose of the facility is extended storage of product so the primary purpose of this facility the board would determine that the primary purpose of this facility is um wholesale storage right
warehousing and that the retail sorry the um showroom portion is accessory to that storage in the building so when this was first approved
it was strictly Warehouse correct I don't know exactly what it was approved just know that there were four tenants located in the building what those tenants were doing I don't I'm not entirely sure there was office included
storage in office so then this is a brand new use on top of the warehouse and storage that I I don't have the copy of the other plans to say if they had a showroom or not
um but as rich said and I want to just frame it this way is we talked about two principles uses but if you see the showroom as accessory and the ordinance the Ed Zone permits those custom those uses customarily incidental to the above so if you find that this use is
customary and incidental to what their primary use is then you can consider it an accessory use but is that is is is a showroom a typical accessory for a warehouse would we want every Warehouse exactly to have a showroom no and the
other I guess the other thing to think about is I always think about uses and impacts related to them right so a showroom if you know it's gonna also store stuff it's going to have you know something on display just the product that they have stored in boxes is going
to be assembled and put together for display for people to walk around and look at um but they're not selling it there so it's not a retail use so it's retail would not be accessory to a warehouse but would showing the product you have it's not typical but I think we
have have I'm trying to think if we had another use they had I mean there was other uses that have exposed mezzanines that have you know i' I've seen offices and I I can get office with with with a warehouse as an accessory use it's the showroom
aspect of it that that troubles me is there a way to to go to zonings and say can you give us can you give us your thoughts on it and and they could always refer it back to us so so as what I said before they could
have gone to Zoning for an interpretation okay right um but typically you do that you know for for other reasons you know they're here and you this board has the authority to interpret the ordinance if the board
deter interprets the ordinance to mean that the Ed Zone does not allow um the showroom aspect then you would determine that they have a use variance issue and they'd have to go to
the zoning board for a use variance so so Mr if I if I was to say here tonight and just hypothetical that showroom is an accessory use I would then have to say any warehouse that comes before us that wants a showroom as an assessor use
would be permitted so you would have to deter in part yes but you would have to be part of that would be to determine that the showroom that they have is strictly for wholesale selling right not not retail selling to the general public
it's simply to show other contractors you know what it looks like or how to put it together yeah and I think sorry the other important thing is that you're you're not necessarily setting precedent because every application has to stand on its own so the context of that could
matter the size of the showroom the ratio of the showroom to the to the other portion of the building um those are all other considerations that might come up right so something um I think it was when the mayor and Council were here um and we were talking
about different something with the use there's something else in that where Ed Zone that sells a product that is considered accessory we have Admiral medals came before this board last year in the Ed Zone wasn't something that came before
the board it was a question and they used it as an example I think it was about the Cannabis oh I wouldn't I don't know that's when they were here we were talking about can yeah there was some question because I think I said why can't we just looking for retail why
can't we do it there and they said you can't do retail there the only thing you can do was the distribution or manufacturing sale of selling it yeah something like that there was yes retail is not permitted in this zone no no I know that
but they gave a specific example of something um I can't remember what it was well I don't know so I'm torn I'm kind of at you know here we are and and I'll speak for me I won't speak for
anybody else and never will um I'm unsure based on the testimony um from the applicant that that says there it is a second primary use we're saying no it's not it's a it's a it's a necessary use
um I you know to me I'd like to get some type of a clarification from Z because I don't want to get this wrong I'm worried uh about the precedent and also um establishing the site I mean we don't we
want it to be successful seems like you know okay this is this is some of us might say this is Goldilocks it's it's showroom it's the special case but if something happens 10 20 years another tenant comes in there I
get that they're going to have to come before a board but there's this very specific building very specific site designed for very specific set of uses um and I I don't know I don't know how comfortable I am
with that but I yeah I'm I'm also uncertain we don't we don't have any idea what what the future holds this applicant may sell the building or you know may move in in four or five years and then the new tents will come before the board with a
new application right requested I look at the the footprint of the building and and to what Katherine said um as well it's that we're not sitting a presedent here because every application will be
different based on the size of of this accessory and it's accessory I I look at this as as a um a facilitator for a sale that's all it is as see as a sales floor yeah a small
sales floor that's it and only because they have the space so they went from 10,000 foot to complete Warehouse to now they have a little bit more space where they have some office space and you know every Warehouse has offic in it has to okay so now he's he's taking advantage
of a little more open space to create more facilitate more more sales on a wholesale basis and we're not worried about a retail section here because we have nine or 10 straight prop spaces that's it so
I don't know I I like the idea I just want to share some perspective and and I appreciate Mr ble ley's comments because I think I didn't even realize how small the office area is the office that they're proposing is about 100 square F feet which is if this
was if this showroom was an office and I think back what if this wasn't a showroom what if they had cataloges and people came into a conference room and they opened up a catalog and said you know this is the products we offer would it be would you see it as the same way as them putting a a a backyard grill you
know um at a pizza oven in the showroom in the off and call it a showroom instead it off office with a conference table when I talked before about when I think about uses I think about impacts I think about like what what additional is this generating is it generating more employees is it generating more traffic
is it generating um you know something else that's related to the ordinance or related to you know realistic changes um and I and just putting into perspective if this use was flipped to another another tenant in the future and they had to come back
before this board and they said okay we're using that showroom has a conference room with a big table it's going to be our sales office would you see it any differently would you see the sales office as accessory to to the use but this one has an option for demising
well right for excuse me de there was no that's the architect said that was from a prior plan but this is one tenant so this also has 21 to 24 uh foot wide aisles so just Devil's Advocate if you know I get that there's a certain number
of stripes spots but if it became in the future some other use I could see offsite things like traffic being an impact where people could park all along the building low it up I understand that's very unlikely but that's an issue
for the next next right and you can also create a condition that no one's allowed to park on the side of the building okay you know only for loading and unloading temporarily so from enfor I just want to point out one other thing in the the ordinance that for conditional uses in
the Ed Zone permits as a conditional use accessory retail sales all right so it anticipates some sales being done in this Zone as an accessory to a warehouse every every Warehouse has has office space and most
have call centers space too so the fact that we have a really I think it's very small section of the total footprint dedicated to a showroom um it's answer that's
it but but you know so accessory retail sales I think we said they're not that's not what this is though right a show right we could right it's not a retail sale which I think is the you know more impactful so
so let me go to the professionals you know just this is where I may have to have to really count on on on on you folks to help me understand this better so again so I hear the applicant saying two primary uses one of them
being a showroom um and then I'm looking at the ordinance and I'm not seeing how that falls in but I think you you both are disagreeing with me in your professional opinion would you see this as as a
warehouse or do you see this as having two primary uses I think there's a third option which is what RR is that there's primary use with an accessory use within so that's how that's my opinion based on what I provided as like hypotheticals or
you know anecdotal ideas um is I don't see the showroom operating on its own it cannot function without the warehouse really Definition for accessory use uses that are incidental to the to the per
uses and you could condition it to limit the traffic offside traffic impacts potential we could you could limit it that there's no there's only parking allowed in the designated spaces um we have banked parking potential banked parking so that parking does become an
issue they'll have to construct those spaces which should be a condition of approval for the other side of the building where the drive-in doors are you can condition that there's no blocking of those doors no parking permanently in front of those doors just temporary loading and unloading
um and I think that should capture those applicant has no objection to that uh and and also he did um he did already testify to uh the Staggering of the deliveries um and there's going to be no overnight parking of any trucks in that
back area so Katherine if I understand so your your feeling is this is permitted permitted use wouldn't it would permitted accessory use correct Mr what would you I I agree with that I I think the primary use here is
warehousing and I think the showroom that they have is accessory to the warehouse just to show that product yeah okay can we prepare a motion but do we want to hear tesing on
the uh traffic statement the there's nobody oh you did said dyra on it yes I I was the author of it and and to to Simply put we can't take any new testimony um that would have passed at
9:30 I don't even know what time it is might watch might watch that I don't even know it's a little after 10 we need yeah and I think the board's policy is no no testimony after 10: right no new Witnesses after 9:30 we still have other business I think we
have yeah I know we need to move on um what we what is the board's feeling of whether we need to it it it was it did say it was low impact and it didn't need a full study I don't I don't think we need a TR a traffic study okay so then can we prepare a
motion I just I just want sorry clarify one thing the the um relief that we cited previously that came up over the course of testimony about the development standards for storage Weare Warehouse uses um the truck the tractor
trailer parking is only really related to the dock doors so because we because those are not dock doors there's no required truck parking I just wanted to clarify that there' be no waiver relief from that and the other condition that was agreed to by the applicant was
basically the creating one loading space that's 10 or 12 by 50 rather than the two um which would include a waiver for the number of loading spaces I just want to make sure those were on the record all right so if I miss anything you'll let me know I'll try all right try so
I've been trying to keep those notes all right so if if there were a motion to um approve it would be for preliminary and final site plan um approval with variances for lot area ratio for parking
where 33% requested um versus a maximum of 25% being permitted uh variance for maximum and perious coverage at 51% requested where a maximum of 40% is permitted understanding the testimony
that with some modifications in the plan the banked parking area and the relocation of the dumpster area that impervious coverage um may come down but certainly it would not exceed the 51% requested um the number of parking
spaces uh is a variance they are proposing 11 um and in the the striped parking areas with an additional nine as banked area it would be green banked spaces where 36 are required there'd be
a trigger mechanism for developing the bank parking um typically the de the owner could certainly trigger that if they felt on their own that they needed parking but I think an appropriate trigger is also if you know the town is saying you know parking as an issue on
the site the town could ire the developer to or the owner to install the banked parking okay um okay let's see one EV ready spot yep uh yep okay yep there'll be one EV ready
um spot designated on the revised plan uh there's a variance for a 24 foot wide Drive aisle um ex where uh they're showing a 23 foot wide aisle in the oneway section of the parking
area there's a uh they don't satisfy the required minimum landscape area ratio of 40% but with the new calculation as was discussed we anticipate that it'll get pretty close to 40%
um there's one means of Ingress egress to the site where two are required there are waivers also with respect to parking space size at 9 by8 um where 9 by2 is um
is required and of course the testimony was there's also a two foot overhang on that 9 by8 um okay so unstriped parking is no longer a waiver right because we're not doing that and I think that was it on the
on on the variances and wavers there are several conditions it would be all of the conditions that are set forth the township Engineers report and the township planners report um I may touch on some of those as we go here but but
if not it's all of those in those reports um so conditions also include that deliveries would be stagger to the building so only one tractor trailer would be on site at a time all right uh the generator back will be
approved uh by the township engineer regarding satisfying the township noise ordinance and then the applicant will apply um for minor site plan uh to the minor site plan committee for approval of the
generator the storm water management manual will be recorded with the county clerk's office got the one EV ready parking space um you I don't think you show the landscape area ratio on the plan you're going to
revise that and show it on the plan going to reduce lighting to 3,000 Calvin um versus whatever is on that plan now I wasn't sure if this was uh something the board wanted but we
discussed the use of pervious pavers is that going to be a condition da you think that makes sense to include per favors I I think the uh final outcome of that was that uh the impervious was going to be reduced by those Bank
parking spaces being basically put in Grass the impervious coverage variance if the board's agreeable being granted so that they could pay that if in the future they had to but based on our understanding of the D RS the impervious
papers pervious pavers were not going to impact it okay so it's not a condition that's right use that okay do you have the lights timed I'm sorry no the timing lights did you put the timer on the lights I might I'm bouncing around a little bit where
kind of came up in different just it it was in with the temperature of the light but I'll put it right here so lights are lights will be timed to be either do you want to do them like an hour before you open
our or I mean they had sunrise sunset so but you're closing at 4 pm right do an hour before hour after and then security lighting as needed otherwise okay can we see the security lighting it's not going to be egregious
I'm assuming it's just going to be like one of the lights on the back okay so I'll do one hour before opening one hour after close uh with the exception of um security lighting that would typically be um
adjacent to the building or attached to the building right at doorways they'll reduce the sidewalk size I know we talked about this right by two feet and you'll eliminate it past the unstriped parking so once we get to the end of the striped parking there's no
more sidewalk can I just clarify that yep there's a building entrance at the end there is it going to be sidewalk removed after the entrance so the it'll be after the the back it would have been after the back end of the um rear entrance no no
I'm after the back end of the the land bank spaces so it's a little bit further past the striped it would have been here but I think we could probably even go as further back as to to end it at that doorway so end at the doorway the doorway yeah and that's just additional
impervious to be green and you're going to put the the dumpster storage on the perious or impervious so it's not double counted okay okay um we're going to relocate the dumpster to a paved
area the we're reducing the five bay doors is that still yep yep okay and they're not called bay doors they're drivein doors Drive IND doors you can create a loading area then that
larger 12 by yeah yeah because that's just how that's you know my notes are just as the trying to do it in order we talked about the overhead doors uh we're going to eliminate the
future demising wall designation on the plan uh use a pin mounted sign and submit the sign uh for approval to to the minor site plan committee create one loading
space right do we have a size for that 12 by 50 correct 12 what it says on this thing 12 by 50 okay and just to be I just want to be clear on that if I can we're going with
one 12 x50 in lie of a 12x 50 and a 12x 30 because two was required loading yeah I had just one that was if you had dock doors that would be that would be an additional waiver then the number of loading
correct well so so it's one space not two that's what we're saying one space that's 12 by 50 to accommodate a tractor trailer and then they're going to move the dock the drive- IND doors down I thought I thought they were going to retain one of the spaces that it is and
then make the second one bigger I think I'd offered that if there if it was possible and I I'm not sure if it's possible or not I don't know if it's possible right now I I I I just can't give you that answer there's too many unknowns with where the doors how the doors best fit I would have to work it out with the architect so if want to
leave it as a condition that if possible that the 12 x30 will be retained and the 12 x 50 and then as a Resolute compliance if it comes in either way it'll still be clear by the where the resolution reads got it and then also two more I think uh no
parking shall be permitted in areas other than a strip parking areas and no overnight parking of trucks on site right that was all I had all right did did we have very good did we have no outdoor storage in there
I was just gonna say agreed to no outdoor storage no outdoor storage no outdoor storage and only one tenant in the building okay then I'd like to make a motion to approve generator are we going to hear
the by the attorne they'll come to the minor site plan subcommittee all right yeah I'll second second I'll second it hi roll call please Janette Burke yes Ronde I'm going to abstain no you
can't yeah you're here here that's why you get the big box you had to decide so I get we still discussion or no sure so the discussion is again is there a way just to go to
zoning say do you think that this is a um this is an approved accessory use no I think that's this board's job right now yeah so I think your feel is that it's okay it is and Catherine your feel
that it's okay correct yes Robert Bleckley yes Celeste Luciano yes Ernie Ras yes Vice chairman Robert Oto yes chairwoman John Ferman yes all right
congratulations we put you through your Paces gentlemen for us thank you for bearing with us on that Thank you Rich for getting no one said this job was easy
right while you're packing up I'm going to keep moving because it is uh getting late here uh we have updates have a good night and get home safe good night uh first is Town Council um I don't believe we have any because um we don't have a
representative uh environmental commission I think Rob is going to do that I'll be quick uh we heard a presentation on lead exposure leads everywhere um we went through
uh NPS Holdings this one um so previous comments were just storm water capture light pollution and invasive non-native species so uh and we talked about uh dark skies and
lighting so that's why I was trying to inject a little bit of that into this Earth Day um celebration planning continues next speaker is going to be plant This Not That Lisa cherell native
plantings salt watch um and then just uh yeah I believe the the green amendment was passed with Town Council so that was another thing um that's about it when is the plant this m
at uh check the website uh March 13 I just asked what date the plant This Not That is March 13 2025 um plant this not that it's going to kind of be a nice little primer about native plants
uh it should be on the website but uh March 13 2025 7 pm thank you here oh right here y we'll be yep hi um the minor site plan subcommittee uh we do have an update
we're finally um settled a little bit um with new people and Rob Oto has free to be the chairperson so thank you congratulations no congratulations that's right that's right hold this
thing and we have several applications that were referred uh or will be referred to the full planning board so um that's occurring and the master plan subcommittee is scheduled to meet on March
6th have further updates as that occurs okay uh we don't have any minutes today um have a resolution the two from last time I haven't done yet I'll have them for your next
meeting okay yeah so we'll have them next time there's nothing today Y and um and we'll open to the public for comments on matters not on the agenda and matters not related to a hearing on an application for development uh just quick you just
approved an application with five variances including impervious coverage parking major issues two waivers and conditions you just got the the news that the vet
hospital uh lawsuit went through was approved and then wasn't even challenged with an appeal um just needs to be considered thank you
baring anything else motion to adjourn motion to adour