may be streaming either now or later from home on YouTube um I'd like to call this meeting to order for the record this meeting is being held on February 7th 2024 at the sparta Township municipal build building located at 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is now 703 um the live stream for this meeting may be viewed on YouTube at www. youtube.com forpart Township which is s p t awp uh please note the adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act uh I'd like to ask everyone to please stand and join us as we salute our flagge Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay thank you everybody buddy and Dory could we have a a roll call please Justin caneles here Ernie rad here Christine Dunbar here Deputy Mayor Dean bti here chairman Ronde here celest Luciano here Janette Burke here Nick pompilio here Mike Sylvester here uh Vice chairman bill enri here and Ryan Caruso okay okay um so we have two sets of minutes to approve uh the first is from November 2nd 2022 the second is from December 7th 2022 uh the only two people that are eligible to vote are Mr Sylvester Mr reat I don't know if you gentlemen had a chance to look at that and if you're comfortable with it and and if you're comfortable could I have a motion to approve the minutes of November 2nd and December 7th of 2022 I'll move a motion to approve okay Mo so minutes of the of November 2nd and December 7th 2022 are approved okay um we have a couple correspondents that we're just going to go over and again these are more informational uh as opposed to something that we we'll be voting on so the first one is a letter dated January 22nd 24 from environmental Consulting and it was a response action outcome submission for Pope John High School um what this was is is that I guess they had found some underground storage tanks at Pope John and so the envir Al Consulting went in uh did a study and I think they've determined that there is no contamination um they have any thing to add to that or any thoughts no I would just say Mr chairman and board members I agree with what you just stated and in this particular case Mr Allen is an lsrp that acts on behalf of the applicant and provides a certification to the D so that form that he filed basically summarizes the outcome of their investigation and Records it on the D database all right thank you sir yes sir the second one uh dated January 17th uh 2024 notification New Jersey D Wetland General permit for the repair of a malfunctioning septic system at 12 Valley View Trail block 4016 Lot 12 and again I believe this is just informational uh no action required Dave any thoughts on that uh the only thing I'll add Mr chairman normally for some of these applications where they involve transition areas or wetlands uh either for a general permit or for a letter of interpretation for a delineation line uh a lot of times the township or the municipality will get copied so they know what's going on and sometimes I'll give you an example in another municipality over in Hampton we got notice of a wetland Loi that was going in and the one good thing that the township could do in that particular case uh they had plans in their master plan to extend a road in the future and they brought that up up as a response to the DP not that it was going to affect the line of delineation for the wetlands but just so everybody including the applicant in that case knew what was going on so they didn't propose some development in the area where the intention was for a future road so it was trying to work together too to make everybody aware and be on the same page okay thank you okay the third item is the Town Council resolution number 24- 53 which is to authorized the Land Conservancy of New Jersey to prepare an update to the township open space and Recreation plan um Deputy Mayor ly you want to talk to this one or I can I can give a quick summary yeah sure this is a um so the environmental commission is taking the lead on steering this um they a grant was applied for through the highlands Council and um it was granted it was received um with additional funds not only the cover the fees of the Land Conservancy of New Jersey but also uh a small allocation for additional professional fees as needed um for our own professionals to help out with that and um the Hing council is going to have a a multi-month long process of doing this is going to seek input U not only from the environmental commission but other boards and committees and the public as well along the way um the goal eventually is for the planning board to uh see fit to adopt that uh or take parts of it and use it as part of their the master plan and adopt it for that down the road you know this this is this is a big deal and I just want to make sure that people don't lose sight actually have a grant I think it's going to reimburse this up to like $25,000 20 reimburse this up to like $25,000 20 20 20,000 um so it's that's money that we as a Township taxpayers don't have to spend to update the open plan so so that's a that's a big win so appreciate everyone's work that uh that helped put that in place um the fifth item uh dated February 2nd 24 is txas County planning and economic development preliminary site plan for Diamond chip Logistics Park B uh 12008 lot 23-33 Demis Road uh basically saying that they've deemed the application complete and will be reviewed by the susus county development re Review Committee on February 20th of 24 so again this is just more information there's no action on our part here um Mr Simons anything that we need to add there or not at this time okay thank you sir okay the last the last item we have is the Sussex County open space committee minutes from uh September 28th 23 um and again that's just more informational I don't think there's anything that needs to be out of there unless anybody up here in the Das has any information you'd like to to add to that okay um so with that we can move on to um did you want something did I miss one oh thank you no I I did I missed that one uh the one I did miss was uh the state of New Jersey notice of public hearings for Highlands Council and Regional master plan amendments um so that was just a notice of of uh of some meetings that that are being held in relative tittis um I think they were between uh let's see if I can find it here between uh February 12th and the 20th and it's basically solicited public comments okay okay I just want to know some of them was are via Zoom too so if they you do want to participate virtually a few of them are noted just go to the website in the um in the letter that was attached that Dory sent out um from the highlands you can click that link you can go to the website and it'll show the meeting dates and which ones are virtual that's great thank thank you I I I didn't realize that so I actually uh had a question on this uh would um it be possible for us as a planning board or as a town to uh support as a group at the town or planning board the Amendments that the highlands council is advocating for so I'm I'm not sure the question I apologize things in there that uh pertain to recommendations that we should include in our master plan and since we're just starting that work you know and they need support you know via the public hearing but it would be more powerful perhaps if we had a some sort of a resolution that we could actually um you know stand behind and and give to the um as part part of the hearing as a group so um is is it's a little unusual for a planning board to take a position on something at another governmental agency it's a little more common for the governing body to decide to do that um because the governing body speaks for the township the planning board only speaks for the board so um might he might bring that up at the governing body I suppose and that would it's a little unusual because you you don't need to comment about another agency's proposed plans but you could but I'm hearing it could be a topic at the Town Council it could be I I'm a little they might say what are the details you know so and then you need Katherine maybe or somebody to go over but the board usually pushes it down to us if they want to solicit an opinion or sometimes support sometimes although that would be advisory only it wouldn't go from the planning board to a third a go another governmental agency usually the township of Sparta speaks through the governing body that I mean that's generally speaking I'm not saying you have to do anything now well I just would like to say that there are some absolutely great Provisions um in this document if you haven't had a chance to um to read yet that would really benefit our Township Mr chairman can I can I re can I read out the website for the public in case they want to please do visit this so anyone who would like more information about the public hearings as was mentioned there are six one of which is through Zoom you could also submit comments by emailing up through the end of March so through actually through Monday April 1st so the website for for more information is www.nj.gov SL NJ Highlands that's h i h i g h l n DS slm m s t r slash amendments a m n d m n TS backs slash and and we certainly encourage anybody that wants to to get involved to you know to to submit comments on our own please do so okay any other any questions on any of the the items listed under correspondence okay so we're going to move on to Other Board business so I'm going to send this back to our November first meeting um and I'll give a a quick recap unfortunately um the the uh presentation is not uh working on the screen tonight um so I'll try to recap it and I think uh at least the uh the board members should have a copy of the presentation in your package that was on a dasas and I think we're trying to make a few copies of to public would mind Sharon about uh what this is all about but let me let me give a a recap of where we were so you you may remember back in November 1st um we we talked about indoor Recreation us uses and they included things like dance studios karate Studios and and similar uses um and those type uses have a requirement of having one parking space per 100 square ft of the respective business leased or owned building area um the design standards uh 18-5 do3 for parking uh that's a pretty stringent that's a pretty stringent use when you look at some of the others so we had a lot of dialogue around around that back on November 1st um just as a comparison so again we talk when you look at the you know here we're looking at one space per 100 square fet square foot you know retail office space has one space per 200 foot uh restaurant is one per 200 square foot so it just didn't seem in line given some of these uses so we just wanted to to kick that around and say if there's there's anything we want to do to change it in addition when you look at some of the nearby towns such as andova Lafayette and Jefferson they have requirements that are more align with the one space per 200 square foot so so the question is are we making it too hard for these types of business to come into our town um so so that's that what this that's what the whole discussion was was about some of the the outcome of the discussion we had is is that you know we realize that when you look at the definition of what indoor recreational use means it wasn't clearly defined in the ordinance there was examples given but but that was about it um I I think overall the general feedback was that while people seem to support the the concept the way it was proposed on November 1st still needed needed some more work and and a relux so that's what we're here to talk about tonight um M M's offer to put together some recommendations that she'll walk us through um so I just wanted to give some some last minute final thoughts before we get there in terms of what we talked about again on on the first you know when you look at at zones like the economic development Zone um there there are some buildings in that area that could probably benefit from indoor recreational use um pdm1 pdrm too they may have uh a similar benefit too um when you look at indoor Recreation indoor recreational uses and again the way it was defined you know not all indoor recreational uses have the same demand for parking for example you may have a karate studio with limited size classes or it could be uh a health facility would based on a membership show up as you want so you know again again different different models but that wasn't real clear in the way the ordinances were were written um and and I think you know again when you think of indoor recreational uses that could also be clubs and that type of stuff so I I I I think no matter you know if you look at on the the folks in spart I think there's there's a benefit to everybody if we could find a way to make this reasonable um and easier for these types of business to come into our town and maybe you know fill some of the some of uh the smaller buildings and and some of these other zones so with that um what I'd like to do is is turn it over to Mr M who can kind of walk us through some of the recommendations that uh she came up with and I've seen it and I in advance I'm going say I appreciate the work you've done thank you Ron um and thank you for for you know getting this process rolling and and and setting that up from November um so unfortunately as Ron mentioned that the presentation isn't working um so I'll try and be as clear and if you have any questions let me know um so this uh the the proposed changes to the parking um are kind of twofold because as Ron mentioned right now the only parking standard that is prescribed for um like a like a recreation or Fitness class is the is for what's seen in the in the ordinance as dance studio karate studio or similar similar use there's really no it's it's very specific it doesn't doesn't talk about you know gyms it doesn't talk about um like larger indoor recreational facilities so um for uses that you know exist today they probably use the standard that was there or pre-existed that standard and for newer uses that want to come today that are you know outside of a dance studio or karate studio have to fall under that similar use and kind of have to figure that out um as far as parking standard even if they are permitted in a Zone and I did look at existing per permitted uses in zones just to see if there were allowed um like Health Club Fitness Center gyms things like that that are prescribed as uses that are allowed and don't have a corresponding parking standard in the in the parking standard section of the ordinance and there are a few health and indoor athletic facilities are allowed in the tcpb zone health clubs and fitness centers are allowed in the ed1 zone um as a conditional use preschools childcare facilities health clubs Spas dance schools karate schools are allowed in the planned Village core in the miuse trans deck number five and indoor recreational uses including gymnastics basketball soccer health clubs and other similar uses are allowed in the Ed zone so there are existing uses that really don't have a corresponding parking standard so when I say this is kind of twofold as Ron mentioned um there we'd like to propose also um that this there be definitions because currently there's no definitions in the definition section of the the code that talk about these uses that talk about what a gym is what a health club is what a fitness center is what a dance studio karate karate studio tipe uses and so um basically a proposal is there there' be three definitions that help to to break this out one uh the first one being for um commercial recreation and we should probably make this indoor commercial recreation um with the definition being uh a privately owned and operated indoor Recreational facility functioning primar ly within a building as a business included our fa facilities accommodating training and the playing of sports such as basketball baseball tennis soccer ice skating swimming and Diving so like I said larger scale um kind of sports indoor sports facilities and similar activities conducted on a court a field a pool and accessories is including showers retail sales um limited to no more than 1 th000 square feet in party areas limited to no more than 50 participants not included as commercial recreation facilities or health clubs or fitness centers and I'll I'll get to that in a second so this is really intended to capture this definitions like I said intended to capture these bigger scale indoor Recreation um facilities and there will be a Associated parking standard I'll get to that as well um second definition would be for health Andor fitness clubs um and that definition is proposed to be an establishment providing a broad range of facilities and services for the promotion maintenance and Improvement of the health and well-being of people which may be offered as membership or subscription based including but not limited to cardiovascular strength training and other exercise rooms and Equipment individual and group exercise program swimming pools lap pools therapy pools whirlpools locker rooms private changing room steam room saus showers individual and group aquatic exercise and Rehab programs uh see the definition for health and fitness studio for use is specific to indal individual and group fitness or Recreation classes only so a Health Club Fitness Center is like your typical gym your typical full range gym that has an exercise area some locker rooms and some other ass assciated facilities um as like a full full service gym um and can include Fitness classes as part of that you know membership or offering and then the third definition is Fitness or Recreation studio um which is in I'll give you a little kind of briefs and off is posted to be like just a small boutique kind of offering like a dance studio a karate class place um or even like a Zumba yoga studio um so the definitions promotes as indoor recreational business with services solely limited to offering instruct instructor or coach-led Fitness or Recreation classes which include but are not limited to karate and martial arts cheerleading golf simulation dance wrestling yoga Zumba and similar um does not include tournaments competitions demonstrations or events with anticipated Spectators um c commercial recreation for uses with tournament play see Health in or Fitness club for General Health Clubs that may or may not offer classes in conjunction with exercise equipment and so those are the three kind of separate uh umbrellas definitions for different uses that may include some sort of commercial um Recreation or Fitness or gym use the proposed standards um and unfortunately again we don't have the presentation but Ron had gone through kind of some num he he worked the numbers out in the first presentation he talked about how the standards exist and how they're compared to some of these other towns nearby how they compare to other uses that exist today and how the standards are a bit restrictive um he also talked about uh he proposed certain ways to to um you know not only change the standard but if there are worries about in the certain zones that they're in and things like that and so I use that as kind of a jumping Point um but Tred to consolidate it more into a way that's workable in an ordinance that captures some of the concerns I know Ernie had brought up some major concerns about parking um for these uses in the in the Town Center uh in Plaza where parking is tight um and may create conflicts and so we tried to capture that so for the proposed the proposed standards for commercial recreation would be one parking space for 750 squ ft of gross floor area for athletic activities plus one parking space per 75 gross floor area of spectator or party area but in no case less than 50 spaces for the entire facility where tournament plays anticipated one space for every three anticipated Spectators shall be in addition to the parking standard for Health in or fitness clubs um this would be one parking space for each 200 ft of gross G gross floor area in the Ed pdrm 1 and two zones so that that's a change from the one to one per 100 to one per 200 or one parking space for each 100 which retains that standard but that's only in any other Zone besides the Ed and pdrm 1 and two zones so the the Town Center uh zones are not affected they'll still effectively be one per 100 or or where the uses share parking with any other us on the site so in the case where there's a Zone uh even the edmp D one zone if they sharing that site with another use they're going to be bumped back to the one per 100 so unless they have sole control of the site and that's intended to make sure that um while parking standards would be cumulative for the uses that there's enough parking and then there's no conflicts the worst case scenario with that is that if there is um a variance required then that variance can be brought before the board and you know spoken to about why there might not be conf conflicts why the shared parking might work um and then finally the fitness or Recreation studio um use the parking standard is proposed to be one parking space per each 200 S feet of gross floor area and Ed pdrm 1 and pdrm 2 zones and pced or one per 100 F feet of gross FL area where the use is shared with the warehousing use in those zones one for 100 ft of gross area and all other zones and so um that is essentially for the fitness classes again uh it can be in any of those zones if it shares it with any kind of um existing warehousing use or similar it would it would bump back up to the one per 100 and similarly one per 100 in any other zones again avoiding any conflicts in the TCC zone so um it's it's it's a little bit um more wordy than most of the existing parking standards but it does capture kind of these levels that if someone is proposing this use they can go through the code pretty easily and say okay that that affects me that affects me and and figure out their parking what parking standard would be applied in that case um and similar to the you know the zoning officer when they're when they're reviewing these applications um does anyone have any questions while I go go on just just one quickly the second definition I think you had the word rehab in there a few times and is that going to be including or excluding ining say I'm thinking of physical rehabilitation center like a kler or some type of physical therapy that's not the intent for that no so that like if Kesler is its own business that specifically focuses on rehab and has almost like a medical side to it I'd say um this was intended more for like a gym that could offer rehab under that umbrella it's it's intended so that if there was you know rehab uh hours offered at the gym through like a you know a doctor's office or something like that that it would be captured underneath the use um because it's pretty typical that they you know Jims will will um offer that as a as a place to do to do your physical therapy but but a Kessler would be a complete I think would not fall under this do requ do those rehabilitation centers like a Kessler have their own individual um kind of registration business registration number Tom sear then gim or they all categorized I'm thinking like the NAIC code yeah I'm not sure just trying to get some clarity on it because it's it's it leaves room for interpretation yeah can see that you know 80% gym 20% rehab and it's if you're TR you got such a you got such a thorough definition but it's just caught my ear oh and we can if you think that that could be a cause for concern we can certainly strike I'm just raising it for other members to consider good point it's kind of similar that you know spa and sa steam room and sauna was included and showers and it's not like a you know half of a half of it could be a spa SL gy like I don't think that's the intent if a if a spa was coming in as a use they wouldn't fall under this health and fitness club category just because they have Spa facilities which are just under this bigger umbrella I'm fine I think yeah I it's going to be a a subject to Applications coming in front of the board correct yeah so anybody have a recommendation on terms of what you'd like to see there that's that's different um does the word rehabilitate rehab have to be in there or no Rehabilitation no do that so yeah so if we struck it that would that would address the concern yeah because that that generates a lot more traffic yeah I I agree that's a that's a very good point you're tied to parking and usually those sessions are half hour yeah 40 minutes and are eight 10 hour day you know and what we're trying to do here as everyone can can hopefully see is we're trying to make the this the small business a small class size um more more um more inine with other towns um and something that that that uh is not going to prohibit those type of businesses from coming to town so I think if we take that out that should that should help here I agree okay thank you just to confirm to we are excluding any of the Town Center zones right from any of this this is that not going a change so the definitions will be ordinance wide so right now there's for even for those uses that I talked about that are permitted or conditionally permitted in certain zones there's no definition associated with them so this will help kind of Define the parameters of those uses a little bit better for one but the parking standards as I mentioned will not be impacted they're going to stay the same as they are today by the way that it was written okay okay the one per 100 okay and also uh the concept of shared use multi-use buildings so I'm thinking of a scenario where first of all I understand that if it's a shared use property or multi-use building the existing standards still apply nothing that we change or this new proposal doesn't affect those right it goes back to this one per 100 now if it changes in the future once a business and or an owner or tenant is approved approved with the new standard should they pass and then they decide to divide up the building or bring another use in there I'm assuming at that point when the new tenant or new business were going to come in either to the site plan waiver subcommittee or here we would be able to force the whole property and both owners back to the existing standards is that correct that's a very hypothetical but good point to bring up um if it's another hypothetical if it's if it's variance free right when at the time they apply for the 1 per 200 and they let's say they have the whole building the whole you know the whole property um used for that and like you're saying a new use comes in they're going to make their use theoretically their use would become smaller right yeah so it would leave some potentially leave some room um you know some parking spaces open I I think technically the new the new user would be the one who' have the onus on you know proving that they have enough parking and I I think because this does Tri this definition under the parking standards kind of triggers that I think they would be responsible for figuring for the higher standard right it wouldn't be on the other property the other existing user but the new property own might have to se might have to seek a variance based on the old standards or could could comply you know with the reverting back to the previous standard and if a variance was required that would come before the full board not the site plan so this is I'm going to keep talk yeah anytime there's a variance to the full board any variance yes or site plan exception even a even a design standard and correct me if I'm wrong on my other response if so if if the original use was issued a parking variant the initial site plan was was got a variance at the one 200 standard even right then came in was the new user unless they were exactly the same use and the meeting you know they would have to get a variant or they'd have to get an approval of whatever they're going to do different than the variant okay so that's a site plan approval by the planning board with a variance or perhaps the old variant would it if they if they exceeded it or changed it in any way they'd have to come before the board so that's I was just making sure of that okay so in theory if the first the new the new first owner taking up the whole building it's one per 200 say they're so if they max out that means no one else can really come in there if they can't subdivide it because anybody else would have to revert back to the one for 100 okay unless they foro and go default back to the original the original standard well in the F if they did change that yeah they'd have to so let me make sure that understood the question because I thought I heard differently so the standard as it is today is it's it's one per 100 so we want to relax it to one per 200 so if the building already has a one per 200 um if somebody came in with a with a new application after these definitions are changed those that new that new applicant would be required to meet these standards say that one more time well so so the existing building right now is one space per 200 say or I'm sorry one space if these are passed right if these are pass yeah so so if the existing building now is one per 100 and a new applicant wants to come in if they could show that they satisfied the definition for one per 100 one per 200 so half the parking spaces um that would get a valuated based on the new applicants used tied to these definitions correct okay but that doesn't address the sub division example that you right brought up once somebody else want a second party comes in any new changes go out the door because it reverts back to a multi-use building which is an exception to the new ones so we would go back to the today's standards for that tenant which are more stringent correct cor one and the intention with being more having a higher parking standard for more uses is just to pretty much address what Ernie brought up about those the shopping Cent In the TCC Zone but we want to avoid that in every Zone possible and so you know where there are cumulative uses there's just a little bit more strict Park the existing parking standard essentially applies lot of a lot of like the trend now for a lot of these recreational type things is to go into more of an industrial area with the advantage being that they're they're nights and weekends and then the industrial Bas is is a is a daytime you know Factory operation or something so the uh they coexist well where it doesn't coexist well is where you have karate studio next to a deli next to a nail salon next to you know that are going all day and all night all of them and now all of a sudden there's you know there's there's conflicts so that that's what we were seeing in the Town Center that we want to make sure we protect from I I think this will work when we get into the into the commercial areas you know larger tracks not out of the downtown okay anybody else have any any questions so let me make sure every any questions anyone let let me make a suggestion because I think this is somewhat you know may want to look at this a little bit more not looking for for an approval per se tonight but what I think what would be good is if we could kind of you know wrap our head around it and see it in the form of an ordinance I think that would make it a lot easier to understand so what I'd like to recommend um to the board is that we go ahead and draft an ordinance and come back and look at it in an ordinance uh in the form of an ordinance and I think that will make it a a lot clearer in terms of you know where it applies how it applies and then and then based on that you know we we could have comments or maybe you know we could put we could uh you know go forward and and and approve it but I think it's really important to see this I think philosophically I think everyone understands what we're trying to do here so I think the important thing is to put this in a form of of an ordinance that'll make it easier to understand so what is everybody's thoughts on that good okay um before we get to that to that part um are we gonna open it to the floor for anybody who has any questions or yeah and I have one there's one more slide to go over okay okay also and then and then we'll open it up I think all right so why don't we do that and and thank you for that slce and Dean do you have one more question not sure what be the slide you're talking about but I want to reintroduce a discussion around if we're going to touch the parking design standards and modify uh we talk about perhaps changing some of the paragraphs to now include permeable pavement yeah I was just about that's okay as an acceptable yeah alternative across the board yep so I haven't word smithed um anything against the existing ordinances but I think it is definitely something that we can we can explore introducing into the ordinance about design standards allowing for permeable pavers um to save from on impervious coverage um with the one caveat being I think that um we should it should probably be limited to a portion of the parking lot and I only say this because um maintenance can be um difficult on them snow removal things they can get you know torn up um and so so we might want to allow like within the design standards say um you know up to 15 10 15% of the parking area or you know Drive aisle or turnaround area may be allowed as a per may be offered as a permeable P um I would also say that we probably should put subject to the fire department A Fire official review simply because if it is an area where they are looking to um if they need to fight the fire and they need to position the truck somewhere they need to make sure that the truck's not going to sink that the weight rating you know is fine and so um I that those are that's my my thoughts on it um but I think um I think it's a good idea I think it's I think the other thing that we need to figure out is um even though they are pervious pavers I want to make sure that we check that against the per impervious coverage um that this doesn't give an give an additional allowance for impervious coverage in other places is right so it's it's a I want it to be like a Good Deed by the developer to offer it as pervious pavers not to make up per impervious coverage Elsewhere on the site yeah so it's not it's not necessarily positioned as an incentive yes to get more impervious surface yeah I I would also say that we think about we have probably have to broaden the word pavers I don't think I was envisioning pavers I think that's one type of purose pavement yeah because papers you think of individual and have grass gr they they have them in like now it just presses down into the the um ground I think there's other Technologies too where it looks like asphalt and you know just but it has a certain chemistry to it where it allows water to go through it so it's probably not as difficult with snow removal and other things too and maybe we don't have to limit it to 10% or 15% if we yeah yeah that I was I was doing that from a perspective of potentially um maintenance so like if there was a maintenance issue that the whole entire parking lot wouldn't be and also from the perspective in my head of okay if they if this doesn't count towards impervious coverage U which we haven't decided yet if it does you could always make the papers still count towards the impervious coverage despite being more perious um so if the I was thinking if if you allow the whole parking area to be impious and and it take away from the impervious coverage that that could be problematic as well because there could be it could be a bonus to allow perious coverage impervious coverage elsewhere um so they're offering it as an alternative right it's an alternative yes and I but and so I think what needs in that alternative it needs to say you know this shall not discount this shall still be considered impervious coverage for the purpose of calculating it you know per your bulk standard I think you should put a footnote in there or some clarification that you're not giving them a TR kind of a an end around yes yes because it could be a way of avoiding a variance it could be a way of you know seeking more impervious coverage elsewhere so there are you know you don't want to you don't want to dangle that in front of a potential you know a bad we could have that discussion though right maybe maybe we do either now we're at the master plan work but we could say that not a one for one but perhaps if you use approved permeable pavement will count 50% or 20% of that towards your impervious instead of being zero so there is a little bit of in maybe not a one I mean the incentive conversation definitely at some point is going to need to happen doesn't I don't know if it needs to be in the parking standard but I think they're more expensive it's going to have to be somewhere in the ordinance whether in the definition for impervious coverage whether a definition for lot coverage whether than the parking standards it's going to have to be somewhere so that when impervious coverage is calculated that we know how to count the permeable pavement yeah any other questions last did did you have did you have a question or uh no oh okay well actually you know I I do okay I I was just thinking in terms of of hypotheticals when we were talking about um the impact within the confines of of town center right so in where the post office is there there was a gym in in that space that has since moved right and of course that's obviously a multi-use building so I'm just trying to kind of like dumb it down for myself I guess um so if another if another whole gym were to move into that space should these be passed I'm assuming that that lot would be more than sufficient however if we're in a scenario where the the owner of that space decides to subdivide it then how does that work in the existing lot so that is not subject to the it's still one per 100 there that's I believe that's a TCC that's a t the town one of the Town C that's one of the Town Center zones so it's not it does it's not impacted yeah just wanted to make sure that that's where we we're really looking at the changes to are going to be in the Ed the pdrm one and two zones which are larger lot zone larger Lots in that zone generally um and larger larger buildings less I mean there are some but less you know strip malls less multi-use buildings um um the T the TC zones none of them are impacted by this they're still going to be held to the same parking standard all right I think that's what I was missing okay thank you anybody else on the Das right let's let's let's open it up to the public see if anybody has any questions or any comments that uh you'd like to bring Jenny Derek tap and topart I appreciate that you're going to bring this back in ordinance form so it'll be more easy easy to understand but just looking at these definitions page three of your presentation it's my understanding that this whole ball of whack this whole subject was open because of a gymnastics studio yet gymnastics is not listed as a use would gymnastics be commercial Rec Recreation there's a there's a argument to be made for that because it's a large format open floor plan or is it Fitness Recreation because there's cheerleading dance associated with it but there's also equipment so maybe something to consider okay thank you I think it's going to matter if the gym is open to tournaments if the gym is open to Spectators if it's a practice facility same thing though gymnastics can have practice or or well that's what I'm saying so it's individ like it depends on who the applicant is if the applicant says we're going to have tournament play we're going to have spectator areas we're going to open it up for part things like that then they're then they'll you know be ticked as a indoor commercial recreation if they right I understand all that but gymnastics is not a team sport so there can be an argument made that it doesn't fit under commercial recognition uh Recreation my my point is if it's contemplated why not just add it in that's the whole reason why this this topic got brought up I think that was Cheerleading right no it's well it's a gymnastic Studio that offers cheerleading training okay okay okay well we we can definitely take a look at that yeah I'll look into it further I just Oran in some of the in some of the uses that are listed they're more straight forward um because of the format and so um I'll take a look at kind of you know the opportunities that gymnastics might have um what a more traditional you know gymnastics like a lot of these are like um you belong to a gym and they they have membership similar to the cheer to Cheerleading gyms um and so um I think I'll put in some more variables about you know tournament play and things like that related to to gymnastics okay but it will not exclude gymnastics oh no and most of these say or similar uses which is supposed to be so that it's not exclusive these are just some examples um and that happens in almost every definition I think minus the health and fitness center I I think that's where we go when it says included but not limited to correct correct so um but because it was it is brought up as you know kind of the impetus and it's brought up tonight then we'll definitely um you know investigate putting it in where it fits best okay anybody anybody else in the public okay so so with that um I'd like to propose and I don't know if I I'll put it in the form of a motion just to make sure that uh everybody agrees you know motion that we we we have uh Katherine go and put this in a form of an ordinance so we can come back and use it in the form that will be approved in and make sure that we can you know clearly articulate the differences and and clarify some of of the discussions we had tonight and then based on that we can uh we can we can go from there so I'll make a motion to have Katherine put this in a form of an ordinance does anybody want to second that I'll second thank you okay roll call Maad yes Christine Dunbar yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman bill enr yes chairman Ronde yes councilman Dean blumetti yes um Nick pompilio yes Janette Burke yes celest Luciano yes Justin caneles yes okay so the motion passes okay thank you okay good discussion and uh and and more to come on that one okay so that brings us to the next item on the agenda which is the uh the resolution for application 710 SP of Veterinary Associates and Urgent Care chairman I recuse on this matter because my client in another town Demetri process is an interest holder in this property so Dave Brady uh covers for the okay thank you Mr P welcome Mr Brady I'm not sure um this is it no microphone there unless we use where there there's a conference microphone there right oh was there yeah and that will pick up on the stream I can't tell if it's on it sounds it's supposed to pick up both people I think yeah it sounds on good okay okay okay good uh I set the uh resolution up I believe Dory circulated it around um Dave has looked at it Catherine looked at it I only yeah I only had one change okay yeah I'll bring it up in a second okay so if the board has any uh questions I can go over it I can go over the U excuse me the conditions if you'd like or if everybody has read it and they just want to ask me questions we can do it that way however you'd like to do okay so so I I was not here so I need to um myself I I can't uh I can't vote on this one but let me open up to the Das to see if anybody has questions so maybe we'll start from the right to the left this time not at time now okay none for me none all set I don't believe I'm eligible to vote on this okay good I only had one change I think it I I got it into late to to your colleague um last Friday um my name is spelled wrong on page three was it really just my last name there's an extra n there that doesn't need to be there but that's fine okay this one one you know what I can run it through spell check or whatever tomorrow and send D Dory Corrections wherever it was spelled that's fine well that's pretty funny if we're going to be if we're gonna be nitpicky it's it's board [Laughter] chairwoman no it's not not a big deal at all I just uh okay that's okay okay so so with that I I guess the question is do we open this up to the PO before we we make a motion to approve it or strictly a function of the board considering its resolution there's no need to open up for the public to have any comments on it in fact it's not shared with the public uh it's just a internal board document okay board's document okay so if the board wants to at this point a motion could be made to adopt it subject to correcting chairwoman and uh correcting Catherine's name thank okay so I send those Corrections over to Dory I I was absent that night so uh does anybody would anyone like to make a motion to adopt it subject to the changes that were discussed I would just like one more question actually so um Mr Simmons you you you okay with this you reviewed yeah subject to subject to the two Corrections that were just mentioned uh Mr Brown uh Mr Brady's colleague did send a copy over and I did go through it and make some suggestions and they were taken care of okay thanks any other questions um so again um do would anybody like to make a motion to adopt the resolution subject to the changes I'll make the motion I'll second okay Miss Fox if we get a roll call please erney rad yes Mike Sylvester yes B enri yes Jette Burke yes Alana yes and Justin canel yes okay the motion passes okay uh moving on to the next thank you Mr Brady moving on to the next section we'll do some uh some uh updates Deputy Mayor BL would you like to give us any updates on the Town Council y thank you so just an update from the town council meeting on January 23rd 2024 the township has applied for an njde Green Acres Grant um resolution 9.5 was approved and um that Grant is to make improvements should be received to Station Park playground um and to make it inclusive inclusive playground in uh reference to Jake's law U the grant request was for $577,000 approximately so we'll wait to hear on that and uh Sparta Recreation Department um and our uh engineer Mr Stoner they put a lot of work into that and uh we we've seen seen some early mockups of it and it's going to be a great addition she would to get the grant the only other comment I had was already covered just on the Land Conservancy of New Jersey open space and Recreation planned so looking forward to that as well thank you okay thank you Miss dumor I think any no we did not have our last meeting it was cancelled okay all right thank you I'll just give some quick updates on a couple of the of the Committees so we had what I thought was a was a pretty good um I'll call the 2024 kickoff of the plan endorsement advisory committee last night um we're in the process of finalizing uh the mission statement and the boundaries of the area that we'd like to recommend be adopted as our designated Town Center um the the advisory committee you know also known as pek has a requirement to allow uh to make sure we we receive public comment I think in the in the form of two meetings we'll probably have more than two um we'll do one at the plan at least one at the plan board and one at the Town Council so we're moving forward um and we'll have more information to come uh we're going to get together on a monthly basis and we're going to hopefully uh finalize the two areas we talked about which are the mission statement and the the boundaries um in terms of the minor site plan committee so um we we finally have finalized uh the members a few weeks ago so the members include uh Christine dumbar Bill Enright Nick pompilio as a May has designate and myself we actually met right before uh this meeting tonight uh I think we I don't have the exact count I apologize I think we had about eight applications we approved two um so we're in the process of playing catchup um and again when you look at these applications I I think we like to to get turn around faster than than we have but the problem is making sure we're getting the right information that gives us what we need to approve it so I think we made a lot of strides there um we actually proposed a new application form um that should help the applicant understand what's required and I think once we get there um we'll be able to turn these around much faster so it was a good meeting there um in terms of the uh the ordinance committee we haven't really so that the ordinance committee consists of uh Ernie rad Janet Burke Bill and R and myself as well as our professionals mred Mr Collins and Mr Simmons and we need to get those those data on the calendar to to uh bring that back to the table um so we'll do that between now and the next meeting um in terms of the master plan uh subcommittee so uh we are staying with the with the uh the people that were chosen uh last year we um we' will be having our first meeting I believe it's on the 19th of February um unfortunately that's a holiday so we're not going to have a full a full um group of folks but I I think it's important to get this kicked off and um we'll be meeting on on a monthly basis and more to come on that as well so that's all I have anybody have any questions on that okay so with that I believe we're at the point where we're opening up to the public so does anybody from the public have any items that you'd like to talk about for matters that are not on the agenda or not relating to our hearing on an applicant for I I'm Vivian paret five Morgan Drive I uh put my comments on a piece of paper and if I can't speak on it then I'll leave the piece of paper with you so you can see it and I will submit it to tap into so everyone in Sparta can know my comments and feel free to stop me so in case you don't want to read it and tap into too then I'll read it now I'm speaking about the application for the apartment building behind Burger King I respectfully request B you we cannot address a pending application that is uh scheduled for a hearing on February 21st you can testify on February 21st addressing the board about that and put it in the record but if you talk about it tonight we can't address it and we also can't include it in the record well I don't need you to put it in the record so much as that I'm asking for things like a traffic study which for next week if you have started on it you you have a way of of of addressing problems otherwise I'll be just talking to the air in two weeks I won't be able and like I want letters written to the businesses on Sparta Avenue and if I come in in two weeks and say it it's too late I I I think that this not allowing me to speak um Can can throw things off but I can send it into tap into tomorrow morning and so I request that all of you I don't think anyone was saying that you couldn't speak you can absolutely speak I don't think anybody was asserting that you can't speak no uh no I think what he was trying to clarify was that if there was anything there that you would like to get on the record or have part of as part of the testimony or if you would like us to respond to you then that would be to your benefit but no one is stopping you from speaking right now so please feel free oh thank you Celeste I appreciate that okay I am speaking about the application the apartment building behind Burger King I respectfully request a traffic study of Sparta Avenue to during the hours that children are transported to school and the hours that children are returned to their homes please do not hire a firm that intends to check the traffic when school is not in session like in the middle of the summer I entirely disagree with the applicant that there will be very few children in the building very few people will pay the rent for two or three bedroom to bath apartment unless they have children in fact there will be families with children living in one-bedroom apartments the custom is to have children the kids in the bedroom and the parents sleep on a couch in the living room money is short with most young people by the way please note that in front of Burger King Sparta Avenue has only two lanes there is no shoulder or bike lane when the school buses stop for the children to get on traffic must stop in both directions by state law until every child has the seat belt clicked New Jersey state law requires the children to be busted to school school so driving them is not an option our school system requests that parents not bring the children by car because of all the buses in the school's parking lots it is not a safe practice please send letters to every business on Sparta Avenue to find out the impact on their business if the track traffic must stop for five or six buses every morning and every afternoon and traffic has to stop in both directions during that time please ask the ambulance Squad how they would be impacted if they will need to only turn light out of their building during those bus stop time periods previously that property had a hotel and a nursing home neither of these facilities had school children living in their buildings the apartment building poses an entirely new problem please note that a previous planning board not you people did not consider the school bus plan for the Primrose Community that's a town house Community off of Route 15 those neighbors do not have a safe place for their children to board or leave the school buses the parking lot for the Urgent Care is not safe and it is a glaring blemish on our Town's ability to consider the safety of our children I don't want that kind of mistake made again you're all new you didn't do it I'm not pointing fingers you need to consider the traffic situation very carefully any advice that's it thank you very very much thank you thank you anybody else have any comments Jenny Derek's uh tap into spart I appreciate Dory that we have two sets of minutes approved this evening so I'm just going to ask uh the minor site plan committee are there minutes of that organ of that group as well because we haven't seen them reported out I don't believe that the will of the monite so what we do for the monite plan committee is we we provide a list of applications that we reviewed and the outcome and we provide that I think it's like twice a year usually in June and at the end of the year here so there's no and they're reported in the minutes of the planning board in accordance with the municipal land use law monthly no whenever they report them to by annually whenever they they regularly I mean they can I think twice a year in December so only twice a year yeah the there's no uh minimum deadline for site site plan subcommittee reporting to the planning board is that what you're no I'm asking about minutes for the public there are no minutes of the site plan subcommittee there are no minutes for subcommittees it's not required in the open public meetings act hi Mark Scott 912 L Parkway I just want to go on the on I just wanted to mention that and maybe even go on the record that you know this entire ordinance and development that you just passed hinged on Mrs sarmad developer leaning interpretation of office versus Veterinary Hospital I mean Veterinary Hospital is a conditional use in the spart or I'm recused on this matter so I'm going to leave the room okay by the way who pays for the additional Journey when we when you have the applicant escrow pays for the addition so just to repeat that I just want to make it clear that this entire ordinance and development hinged on Mrs sod's developer leaning interpretation of office versus veterinary hospitals we Define this building a which is a Veterinary Hospital which is defined as a conditional use in the sparta zoning ordinances as office and so suddenly it became a permitted use and then the planning board usurped the zoning board I don't know what's happening thank you thank you um my name is Anand Dash um as many of you know I am the President of Sparta responsible development and I want to clear the record uh categorically oh you want to call um thank you so as I was saying um onh 17 P Rosa Trail Sparta uh as many of you know I am the President of Sparta responsible development and it's co-founder and I would like to State uh unequivocally categorically and without any doubt that there are only four members of Sparta responsible development I am one its president and co-founder there is three other members none of whom are on this planning board uh and lastly unequivocally spart responsible development is not a party to any action in this Township or any any other Township I am solely a party to an action which you are all aware of I think it's important to state that unequivocally for the record that the only members of spart responsible development are four I am one and none of you are members of Sparta responsible development thank you thank you Mr Dash okay any other comments from the the public okay so I think at this point we move into executive session look for the agenda yes you have before you a resolution I believe you're also going to talk to Dave Brady so in the order of the re resolution maybe the it would be helpful to Mr Brady to have him be going first okay and that is the EnV Holdings LLC versus spart Township planning board case if that was made into a and the next case was made next Cas were made B and the next cases were made C the next matter was made C in the resolution you could upt a resolution uh I'll just read the operative provision uh that the in accordance with the mean's law I'm sorry the open public meetings act sections 7 and8 of the board is going to go into Clos session to to discuss matters of uh pending [Music] litigation uh and I just like I described before and attorney ciment privileged and that it is anticipated at this time that the above stated subject matter will be made public upon the completion of all litigation and appeals and when deemed appropriate this resolution will effect take effect immediately and there there will be no action taken after the U closed session so before we make a motion I just like to thank the public that people that are here tonight for coming out for your comments um for anybody that's home that's taking the time to to uh to watch the stream so uh we all appreciate it so um would anybody like to make a motion to go into executive session I'll make a motion that we go into executive session I'll second okay Miss Fox roll call please ber rad yes Christine Dunbar yes Mike syester yes yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes chairman Ronde yes Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Nick pomilio yes n yes Celeste Luciano yes Justin canel yes action to be taken after these closed sessions no Open Session motion to go on open S and they can just say I post none and then we're now going to turn on the tape and Ernie you're on motion to a JM is there a second there we go all in favor proposed good night everybody thank you