professionals we like to thank all the people that are here in person as well as those who may be streaming the meeting either now or later at home on YouTube I'd like to call this meeting to order for the record this meeting is being held on May 15 2024 at despart Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Streets SP in New Jersey the time is now 7:02 the live stream for this meeting may be viewed at YouTube at www.youtube.com [Music] forpart WP please note that adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act I ask everyone please stand and join our board as we begin the meeting with a salute to our flag States America rep stands na indivisible andice all right thank you everybody um before we begin tonight um I'd like to acknowledge and welcome our new member Mr Brian Zimmerman so welcome Brian um we're all happy to have you as part of the team look forward to the perspectives that you're going to bring to the discussion so again good to have you here uh Miss Fox if you could please call the RO Justin Canalis Ernie rad here Christine Dunbar here Mike Sylvester here Vice chairman Bill Enright here chairman Ronde here Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti here Joan Ferman here Janette Burke Celeste Luciano here Brian zman here okay when I recuse on this matter and uh Dave Brady is here to as my replacement okay thank you Mr G all right so tonight uh we're going to be holding an executive session to have attorney client privilege discussions relating to o1 Holdings LLC vers versus Sparta Township planning board and Adrien merman versus Sparta Township planning board and Travis surf PA DVM authorization to hold the executive session is set forth in resolution number 2024-the of session so welcome Mr Brady and let the record show that Mr Collins has recuse himself in this matter uh may I please have a motion to approve resolution 20 uh 20 24-11 authorizing authorizing the executive session move I have a second second second okay Miss Fox please call the role Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes celest Luciano yes Ernie ragad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman yes chairman Ronde yes all right so a motion to approve um the executive session is passed so the board's going to be going into an executive session we're going to ask that uh people um give us a chamber um I'm guessing it's going to be about 20 to 30 minutes um and then we'll we'll we'll bring everybody back in so um appreciate everyone's patience with us e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e today we we'll motion to go back in the when good okay all right again thank you everybody took a little bit longer than we thought um so I appreciate one's patience um I'd like to have a motion to go back into public session somebody make make the motion may I have a second second roll call Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enri yes Joan Ferman yes celest Luciano yes Ernie ragad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman yes Ronde yes okay um as a result of discussions um we'd like to make a motion to take action so Dave could you help us with that motion yes what we would need Mr chairman is a motion authorizing me to draft an agreement and execute an agreement uh allowing and requiring the applicant to return to the board with specific revisions to the it's env1 Holdings application and plans for public consideration at a public meeting okay will somebody make a motion I'll make a motion to approve thank you s may have a second okay roll call Deputy Mayor Dean blti yes Christine Dunbar no Vice chairman Bill enr yes Don Ferman yes BL luano yes Bernie ragad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman yes uh chairman Ronde yes all right so the motion is passed thank you okay thank you Mr Brady so at this point um is Mr Collins around I'll get when I go out okay thank you thank thank you have a good evening welcome back Mr Collins all right so let the record show uh um at this point that Mr Collins will be uh presiding as our attorney for from this point forward for the rest of the meeting um so I think where we are now is for the uh approval of minutes and I believe we have two sets of minutes to re uh to approve uh December 6th 2023 and December 20th 2023 is that right dor that's correct okay great um we could do these together or we could do them in independent um um let's try and see if we can get them done together unless anybody has any concerns and if you do we you know please feel free to to to speak up I have two comments on one of them so we might want to do them separately okay I'll do them separately okay all right um so could I have a motion to approve the minutes of December 6 2023 B motion I'll second okay all in favor opposed none okay um does anybody have any comments to the minutes of December 6 2023 okay seeing none um the sixth okay okay so seeing none uh may I have a roll call please councilman Dean blumetti yes Ronde yes Christine dbar yes Bill enr yes celest Luciano yes Ernest rad yes okay so the minutes of December 6th 2023 are approved um may have a motion to approve the minutes of December 20th 2023 the live stream is not running what's that live stream is not running oh thank you motion approved the minutes of December 20th 2023 second okay um any I don't know if there's anything we can do there or yeah it doesn't show on my end that it's it should be running okay it's running asking what's going on I'll have to reach out to it I'm not certain why yeah because it shows that it's live on my end okay all right I I I think we got we have to continue with with the meeting on you know unfortunately that the live stream is not working so um so we have we had a motion and we had a second uh does anybody have comments to the minutes of December 20th 2023 excuse me Ron I I apologize but I have it live you do so I don't know if someone else has an issue but I just pulled it up on my phone and I'll ask him to reboot but Kathy's sending me messages that it's not going okay okay yeah I have I have two comments two minor uh Minor Adjustments to December 20th um the first one is a request under public hearings the second application fles Holdings um that if we can add just a comment at the end of that sentence that indicates it was carried forward from this meeting after it had proceeded and then the second comment is with respect to the executive session the uh the timing of the end of it just needs to be adjusted um I think there's a typo it says we started at 1027 ended at 1019 so it's probably either 11 I think the meeting ended at 11:49 I we just need to we'll do update okay that's it so I make a motion that we uh approve those amendments okay anybody one a second please a second okay all in favor I opposed Rec show there none um I think I have to recuse I don't believe I was here on the 20th so I I have to recuse some from this one so um Miss Fox if you could call the role councilman Dean blumetti yes Christine Dunbar yes Bill enr yes celest Luciano yes Ernie reichstad yes Mike Sylvester yes okay so the minutes from December 20th 2023 uh have passed and are approved thank you okay at this stage um I'm I'm going to jump forward into the the agenda a little bit just to get a couple other things out of the way so just to get the approvals done so we can dive into the to the public hearings but our s of meeting is um we we had um in section 10 of the agenda is resolutions we had three resolutions to approve so i' like to tr try to go through those now if we can uh the first one was uh resolution 2024 d-8 which is the memorializing resolution on dis Sparta Township planning Board review of the capital Improvement plan of the susus County Technical School Board of Education for classroom additions to exist to the existing building uh may I have a motion to approve that resolution motion second okay all in favor I I opposed none I should do a roll call I'm sorry Ron oh do a roll call thank you okay uh roll call Dory mayor Dean blti yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enri yes Joan Ferman yes CES Luciano yes Ernie ragad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman yes and chairman Ronde uh I've uh yes yes um do have two comments um on page two um on the second line it talks about it says sworn or I think it should be sworn in um the applicant was sworn should be I think sworn in and the second comment was somewhere on page two it was uh item two the words recommends that the that the Boe following the conditions of this resolution seems like something's missing there I wasn't sure how to if that was the right sentence or do we need to add any words there just be follow follow is the correct words because you're recommending it to the board of ed you can't compel ah thank you thank you I I agree okay so the only only the only modification would be to change sworn to sworn in and that's Tom that's that's a second line on page two that's fine okay okay I have a motion to approve that Amendment Amendment motion approved second uh roll call please Sor Deputy Mayor Dean blti yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes CEST luano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester Brian Zimmerman yes and Ronde yes so Mr conin just to make sure I did this right again with the motion do I now need to do a motion to approve the resolution with the amendment or or is the Z that's fine that's fine great okay okay all right so the second resolution is um resolution 2024-the board approving the minor subdivision application of the East Coast development associations Associates LLC relating to block 120001 lot four and five uh located at uh prices Lane in the OSG and Ed zones of Township of Sparta may have a motion to approve that resolution Mo I have a second second roll call I have a some comments question first so um for this one at the very end a question had come up regarding I think it was a takeaway for Katherine actually um was the new Ed Zone ordinance which was actually November of 20122 was that ordinance used for the bulk standards that were applied to the guideline lines for the subdivision because the ecode the online access I think still shows the old ordinance for that and it was a question that came up at the end of this meeting around whether the applicant based those bulk standards on the the current the new Ed Zone ordinance or the old one I don't know if we um have a confirmation on that I think we have confirmation but the law is that they're subject to the new ordinance so whatever it whatever the setbacks are of the new ordinances are applicable to that to those lots yeah regardless of whether they showed them that way on the drawing so even if they had presented something that was outdated right okay how how would that be because that's what the law is they haven't they're not building anything on this these are just setbacks that are shown for purposes of display but they're not the ones that apply to a building yet okay when they seek a building then they come for site plan approval and they have to comply with the ordinance in effective at that time this is just a subdivision okay is it is it possible there something in the change that was made that would negate the plans they showed us in terms of the distribution in the three lots from the one no okay okay thank you so do we need uh it's a motion you have a motion a second if you want to change anything you do have to you should change it now but I think it's satisfactory the way that it is yep okay okay so uh we had a motion to approve uh we had a second so uh a roll call vote please Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Vice chairman Bill enrite yes Joan Ferman yes celest Luciano yes Ernie ragad yes uh chairman Ronde yes all right and then the uh the last uh resolution is R um Pope John Foundation owns the land across the street from the high school where the softball field and some tennis courts are located and they had I'm not sure they can they can hear thank you the the pup John Foundation owns the land across the street from the high school and they have ownership of um softball field and some tennis courts and they have a long had a lease with the Bennett family that owns some of that land and so in order to finalize their relationship they have obtain a subdivision to make sure that the tennis courts in the baseball field are entirely on the Pope John property and not on the Bennett Farm property so that subdivision was approved previously by the board before your members maybe Mike was involved maybe Ernie um and then they got that extended and then they got County planning board approval of it because it is on a it's on two County Roads uh Sparta New Sparta Road and Sparta Andover Road and uh they needed some time to get the Deeds you you need to record your Deeds of minor subdivision within 190 186 days of the date of the resolution and they we didn't they didn't make it within that time frame so this is a reapprovals get recorded and that the Pope John Foundation receives Land from the Bennett Farm Family Farm adjacent to it and um you you you reapproved it one time already and we're need to reapproved again it's all in order and all Dave and I are satisfied now that the Deeds are uh complying with the approval and the ordinances and we will be having the chairman and secretary sign the deeds and they can get recorded as a result of this reapprovals okay so Tom I I've got a potential conflict of interest here should I step out while they vote yeah I don't consider I would say this unless you're somehow involved in the Pope John Foundation you would not have a conflict just if you happen to go to Reverend Brown School or Reverend Brown Church Reverend Brown is owned by the dicese and is separate and apart from the ownership uh of the Pope John high school and the foundation is actually this land which is across the street from the high school so just being a member at um I'm sorry Our Lady of the Lake Church would not constitute a conflict of interest thank you all right so I'll I'll stay for the vote okay so Tom just to confirm this is identical to the last one we we approved that's right and we're just doing it in order to be able to record the Deeds okay all right so I have a motion to approve uh 202 24-10 take a motion may I have a second second okay uh roll call uh anybody have any comments I a see none uh can we get a roll call vote Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill Enright yes Joan Ferman abstain BL Luciano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman and chairman Ronde yes all right so uh the um resolution is passed thank you moving to the next item on the agenda item six correspondence there are no items of Correspondence to be reviewed tonight so at this point I think we're ready to proceed into the public hearing section of the meeting so thank thank you everybody for for bearing with us as we got through that so tonight uh we have two applications that are going to be heard the first application is plan is planning board application number 708 submitted by uh plus Holdings LSC which is a continuation from on March 20th 202 4 planning board meeting requesting approval for an apartment building and the second one that we'll be hearing uh later time per meeting is is a new application 24- 711 submitted by JP Morgan chasebank which will be requesting approval of a solo carport so welcome back to the representatives of of plus holding um uh please feel free to uh pick up where we left off and provide any new testimony thank you Mr chairman for the record Brian chasy clear Kobe Al and jobs on behalf of the applicant plus Holdings Mr Jai I know we're going to frustrate with that microphone tonight but all right thank you I didn't know if this other one was picking up or if it works so uh this is our fourth hearing so I just wanted to go through where we were at and hopefully where we where we're V okay when we carried this we were last here on March 20th we moved it to May 1st board requested that we back it up till today we agreed and we extended the time to the state for the board to act we had extensive testimony the last time we before the board on March 20th we had Mr McNerney Mr Burton and Mr theol testify at the end of that meeting there were a number of comments made by board members with respect to certain items that they wished us to address so when Mr Burton finished testifying Mr P uh Mr Simmons indicated that the items addressed in his letter were addressed pursuant to those requests we did a few things we made some minor site plan revisions and that revised site plan was dated April 10th 2024 we submitted that on May 2nd with in addition we had a rendering that provided the front elevation of the building that was testified to on March 20th we provided a foursided rendering that was also that was dated April 25th we submitted that on May 2nd also there was a question raised by Deputy Mayor blumetti about the wetlands so we did send out uh Wetlands consultant from P science to verify that and provided a report that report was submitted May 3rd so we believe we addressed you know the ments that were raised by the board members in order to proceed uh we have a limited testimony tonight from Mr McNerney and Mr Burton Mr McNerney will testify as to uh the revised renderings that he commissioned to be prepared and the materials intended to be utilized and also Mr Burton uh we did receive some additional reports based upon my consultation with Mr Burt and Mr McNerney whatever is contained in those ports we could address and we also believe that we addressed uh the issue with regarding the school bus stop during testimony so hopefully uh we can be brief tonight with our presentation and I will have what I'd like to do if we could um is I want to make sure that the public has the opportunity to hear we've seen the changes but make sure the public understands there okay I intend for that to happen so unless there are any questions of me we were up to exhibit A3 at the March 20th hearing I will acknowledge that we did receive two reports from Mr Simmons uh I believe spart is utilities the fire as I indicated those can be complied with in addition with regard to the fire there was a conc concern about access for the fire truck that was added to Mr Burton cyan so I think we've been uh quite diligent in trying to address and hopefully I kept good notes so uh we knew what we required to do so unless there are any questions of me I can certainly have Mr McNerney recalled he was he's been under oath on several occasions anybody have any any questions okay so Bob let me hand you the mic I'll try to speak up Mr chairman uh Mr McNerney uh you're still under oath correct correct all right and you've been here for the past three meetings we were here in December January and again in March correct yes I was and you're fully familiar with the testimony that's been presented yes I am at the last meeting we marked as an exhibit A3 which was a front elevation of the revised design of the building is that correct that is correct and is that what is on the easel to your left we had changed the color of the siding to a little darker color so let's do this Mr Collins can we Mark uh the front East Elevation as A4 yes that'll be A4 with today's date May May 15 all right now Bob why don't you go through that again what is the difference between A4 that is before the board this evening and what you presented on March 20th yes first off all the board members have a uh revi uh reduced copy of this so I think we can point it out to the public I'm going to get out of the way and I'll stand back here so this is basically the same elevation that we produced last time but we did change the color to be a little bit darker and uh as you can see from the original design we add added the gables and a covered Terrace and on the first floor and the covered patios and and that goes up uh four floors before you jump to the next exhibit Bob did you tell us what materials that will be utilize yes there'll be a mixture of uh brick stone on the first floor party plank on the upper floors asphalt shingled roof on The Gables and then a elastic membrane uh for the uh top portion of the roof and then in addition why don't you move the uh other exhibit over to the disas and why don't you tell us what that is as was requested uh we wanted to give you all four sides so that there's no confusion as to what we're proposing up there Mr Collins A5 yes that'll be A5 with today's date and could you go through the various elevations two sides in the rear elevation please yes on the upper left corner of this exhibit is the southern side of the uh building as you can see there's a an entry door exit door on the first floor and then several Windows the same type of siding running across the front is going to run across this both sides in the rear and the flip side on the upper right portion of the exhibit is the north uh elevation in that view and colors and materials on the side that's correct and as you can see the gables pop up over the roof line so that will eliminate any uh any uh AC units this you won't be able to see anything from the uh from the grade level what about the rear elevation the rear rear elevation is similar to the front except we don't have the gables this particular uh side faces into the woods so there's really you're going to be looking directly into the woods and similar balconies we don't have the covered balconies uh the the fourth floor but the uh first second and third floor are covered by the balcony on top of each other now it's my understanding that when you say looks into the woods uh from the rear the property raises up right it slopes up yes there's a significant grade from the base of the building up uh in a Westerly Direction so you won't be able to see this this portion of the building either from the street and the renderings that you have presented this evening will be representative of the material style color uh that will be constructed that's correct Mr chairman I have no further questions for Mr MCN okay thank you all right so let me uh if I can bring it to the professionals um if you any questions or any concerns that you like to address it any memoral so Mr Sims I'll start with you with regards to the architecture Mr chairman Dave if you could the the microphone please thanks sorry about that with regards to the architecture uh the applicant did address several of the items uh we talked about the HVAC units on the roof and they've got the parapet extended to Shield them uh with regards to the generator that's by the proposed building uh again they indicated on Mr Burton's plan that sound mitigation would be provided details haven't been provided yet but if the board was that favorably upon it that would be a condition I'd recommend uh they just discussed the materials and colors uh there are two comments that I had with regards to the exercise room on the second floor I believe and please correct me if I'm wrong that that exercise room was for all four floors that's correct okay I just wanted to verify that and with regards to the 20 storage closets on the 3dr and fourth but there's none on the uh first and second floor units are they just reserved for the third and fourth floors no that that those uh storage units will be open to any of the tenants in the building first come first Ser bases okay and then with regards to the building and amenities and what have you um I did refer to the board's planner with the report that they were going to delve into that more detail okay any other questions that's it on the architecture okay thank you yes sir Mr Mr R sure um couple of main comments on the architecture relate to comments from our letter our supplemental review letter that is dated February 15 2024 um the main comments that I'm pulling out of that review supplemental report were our recommendation in that report was that all building elevations should be constructed to the same level of architectural design interest and use of building materials I think there's a a pretty significant tra uh significant change between the front elevation the level of design and the level of detail and then when you go around on the particularly on the side elevations um very drastically different than the front elevation as turn as far as a design level of design details um and I I think the testimony what was that the building materials was the same but there's the North and South Side elevations are significantly plain in comparison to the front elevation the second major issue on architectural design is uh the absence of a significant roof structure there are a couple of there are the gables that are along the front elevation they're only along the front elevation our letter goes into talking about um the design of the roof and how the roof line has been designed and in conformance um with rural character um of the town center and conformance with requirements to be varied with the combination of heights to provide further visual relief it talks about chimne kpas Dormers are proposed or recommended for further enhancement so the entire roof structure I think is is is one of our other significant comments um that have not been addressed in this revised plan it's it's unclear to me there was discussion on uh I don't see the building elev I couldn't find a building elevation so maybe testimony can be provided um if there is something on the roof besides the actual um Peaks that extend beyond the the roof how high they extend above the roof and what other uh measures if any could be incorporated that would break up that long linear line that is along the side and particularly the rear elevation there's a very prominent long linear line on the building without any Peaks roof or any I don't know if there's I don't know there was testimony I think that there's that there was a screening of the mechanical units but I don't see if uh there's an actual structure or trim or that extends above the roof that breaks up that line those are the those are the main comments yes I may address those comments sir have you been to the site yes I have have you walked up and you saw what's to the rear of the building it's all undeveloped Woods yes with a grade that goes up no one is going to be able to see that I agree with there's a drastic difference but there's no reason for us to to buffer that roof the the compressors that we're going to put up there are 3 feet high and they're going to be in the middle of the roof so and as far as the front of the building goes uh those Gables are going to you're not going to be able to see them they come up I guess 2 3 feet above the roofline so they're going to they're going to uh basically buffer those air conditioning units the sides the same thing you're not going to see the sides our big impact is the front of the building we want to make a statement with the front of the building and to be honest with you I think we have that that's a beautiful building and I think it fits in with the architecture that that your master plan required and as far as the other three sides you're just not going to see it so there's no reason to add anything else to those three sides Mike any other questions any follow-ups you know there's there's different ways I'm I don't want to go down the road and start playing architect there are ways and I'm not talking about expensive building materials or uh designs but there are methods to add trim extend trim or break things up uh to the long linear lines on again the rear and the side and it could be I I can't sit here and understand if the uh I I could not tell if all of the mechanical everything that's going to go on this roof if it is properly screened I don't know that um I don't without a detail most mechanical units are several feet feet tall they're raised up on a platform like a little Grid or something a cage if you will so without having a detail I couldn't I don't know what you will see on the side elevations I don't know if all of the mechanical units will be if they will be able to line them up up only in front of the Peaks there's no dimension on how the how much the peak extends over the Flatline and the roof along the front so I think at least some more detail or a condition or something that ensures that that screening one is done and number two as far as breaking up that long linear line there's a lot of ways to do it and they don't have to be very expensive but they could add some attractiveness to the building on the sides and more screening the compressors are located in the middle of the roof you're not going to be able to see them and no one's going to see them from the back because the the wood's in a Grade so what you're asking I could understand if we had a Neighbor Next Door who's going to be looking directly in but there's no reason to screen the back of the building okay all right I guess I'll bring it back to to today for questions unless Mike have have anything else no that those are the two main points okay so oh good thank you Tom M are you aware that the adjacent property Tom can you use the microphone please Mr mcy are you aware that the adjacent property that you say is to the rear of the building the drive um could also be developed um similarly to your property I know what the zone is and I know there have been applications before this board whether or not developed ever I I couldn't answer that but the grade or the grade from the base at our building to the that property on the westly side is pretty dramatic so so but there's nothing that prohibits it from being developed correct I don't think think you could develop in the area I'm speaking of because we have a slope easement so anything that took place on that property would be further uh further north well a slope e only gives you the ability to grade the slope it doesn't prevent the owner from grading it and using it does it that's a legal question I have to yeah I I would urge you to read it because I I've read it it doesn't say that it prohibits development secondly the if it wasn't at the site of a prior approval of a development which involved grading to a level similar to the grade of your proposal wasn't that adjacent property the subject of a prior approval again I'm not familiar with that application okay well assume it was or and assume that in the future some applicant seeks to regrade that property um to a level similar to your proposal grading uh it won't the won't the rear of the building be visible from Route 517 I don't know what what's giving you a hard time determining that because of the grade you're talking about it's a wooded lot I haven't walked that parcel and the between 517 in the back of the property well over 2300 ft okay but but if we assume that it is graded to the same level as your property all the trees are gone right I don't know if you have any kind of ordinance that requires saving the trees but there is no there is no ordinance that requires that so assuming it was regraded you have no doubt do you that it would be visible from Route 517 the back of your building would be visible correct again I don't know if that's true okay so you've heard the prior questions and you've read the ordinance which says you shall have a pitched roof can you tell me how this complies with the ordinance that requires a a pitch of the roof or a pitch of a portion of the roof to appear pitched we do have a pitched roof how does it appear pitched from the parking lot the roof itself not the cables not The Gables but the roof itself what effort did you consider any effort at a maner roof or a or a pitch of part of the roof to create the appearance of pitch as required in the ordinance the way we address that is through those Gables but those are Gables are not the roof are they they there's roof shingles on those yes but they're not at the main structure are they right at the main structure at the top of the building okay well I'll just tell you that the ordinance requires you to pitch the portions of the roof that are here from the street and from the parking lot and this proposed flat roof and a and a u I think you called it a the parit wall are not pitched and therefore do not comply with the ordinance so some some change is going to have to be made with respect to the uh roof so that it appears pitched for the main length of the roof and for the two sides of the roof there might be a way to do that with Dormers which actually Dormers were used for a prior application for this property which you are familiar with and which do show some Dormers and do show a pitched roof there may be different way to to decide whether to have a ridge through the middle of the building that may not be required but the pitching of the roof and the Dormers to create that type of uh pitched roof are required by the ordinance I think we address those requirements and I think to put a mansard roof on this building would look ugly it's it ruined a whole purpose of what we're trying to do here well I didn't say it had to be maned that's just one option but you don't have any pitch on your roof we do have a pitch on a roof I disagree with you okay well that's my opinion sir so the change is going to have to be made on that now what color are you proposing for the part plank colors that are on the exhibit a tan type Earth Tone okay you said before it's darker than the prior one but do you have any you have an example of the material that you could show the board like do you have a color uh pallet or a piece of Hardy Board that is this color I don't but there are samples that are this color but you don't think that's a green green no it's tan okay but it's a darker tan than the tan of the of the March meeting is that correct I think it's more it's demonstrated more on a side view it's tan okay you're looking at A5 right I agree with you that A5 seems lighter than A4 and more 10 like than A4 one do you like better I I not whether like or not I'm just right now I'm just trying to I'm trying to understand because when I look at the A4 it looks like green when I look at A5 it looks a little bit more like beige like you said color can be any color you DED doct it's up to the board I think to the board board if the board prefers a lighter beige than than your proposal the least of my okay sometimes what's done is the materials and the colors the the faux stone the or stone the brick the clabber the Hardy plank clabber and the colors are presented to the board and they perhaps could be done as a condition of approval so that before construction take place the colors are and the materials are specified would you be prepared to to to take a condition and to provide the colors materials and and types of materials uh as a condition of approval I would agree to that typically when we propose an application we don't come in with the colors and and produce the colors that's a condition the application and we will uh conform to that thank you sir Mr Collins anything else yeah nothing's further for me thank you all right I'm going to bring it back to to the D um I usually go outside in so let's go inside out so will let me start with you any questions yeah Mr McNerney thank you for your testimony tonight um I was looking over the original plans um and you guys made some really vast improvements so uh kudos to your colleagues uh the the front face of the building we really appreciate it um I believe on your testimony on March 20th you did indicate that traveling on 5117 I don't know which way would be West you would be able to see the side of the building and maybe the rear of the building I said I didn't know I said that you may be able to see it so let's just let's just assume that you may be able to without someone developing or without regrading the property behind you or the trees coming down um let's just assume that you may be able to see the side and rear of the building um I think it's I can't speak for the whole board I think but it's the position that it's in the ordinance for a reason to have some sort of either pitch in the roof our planner pointed out um fencing off or or you know hiding the utilities up top or the case of you know the possibilities so what what could we do to kind of come to an agreement that based on the ordinance and based on some of the feedback you've gotten that the side and the rear of the buildings are still a bit of a stick sticking point anything with the front of the building uh no sir concentrated on the front of the building now the side the north side of the building it's got to be 200 feet from 517 you're looking over the uh the uh wetlands area there or not the wetlands the uh Conservation Area I I don't see how that hurts anybody if you saw the top of a building you see tops of buildings through the town this is something that we're trying to do trying to provide a beautiful look and for the sides that aren't the main focus of course we're going to have less of a a a look on on those sides so you're asking me to do things that I just don't think are reasonable I think part of the issue that we're having and the fact that we do think it is uh at least reasonable is because two of the most traffic shopping locations in town the Stop and Shop parking lot and coming off of five uh coming off of Route 15 and driving I believe it's westbound which would face the North or South side of your building North the north side um I think I think there is a legitimate concern that it's just doesn't we have we have those you know we have those we have the language in the order ordinance for a reason and it's to protect the town and the town's people of what's coming into town of how that's going to look from those locations it's not to make your job more difficult well you know I'm just looking at the site you have trees that are 80 feet high how much you going to see of the sides I I think the Stop and Shop parking lot you could you could see quite a bit and I could see Stop and Shop from from Mar may I add to your comment if there's I think where they're going is it's a little Stark is there anything that you could do whether it's decorative facade on the sides Andor in your landscape plan be able to break this up to whether all the trees are gone the Soaps are gone and all that aside when you're looking at this cross dra this crosssection is there anything that can be proposed to add to it to carry carry some of that front view to the sides to make it a little bit more uniformed if in fact the board acts favorably to this application I will make that a condition of the approval to sit down with whoever wants to put input into the side of the building and the rear of the building and we will get that done sorry Bill anything else not at this time okay thank you Mike yeah and just to carry forward and and I and I don't I'm on architect myself so I mean you you know I agree with the comments here the front looks uh a lot different and and very favorable Bes sides I don't know if there shutters there's some type of decorative um facade work you could do there or building your landscape plan so I just want to reiterate that comment and then my only other comment is on the front of the building are these fun the are these Gables functional meaning they all these units have access coming out to the balcony or are these just cosmetic oh no everybody has access to the balcony okay so they're fully functional yes even on the back of the building all right thank you no further questions and I also thank you for your improvements um I don't have any architectural questions at the moment thank you nothing for me I'm in agreement with the these two gentlemen thank you okay uh couple thank yous uh I I appreciate the improvements very much and also uh the Wetland valuation definitely appreciate going through that and and verifying that we were in good shape there um I just going pretty much Echo what you've heard um I I I appreciate the offer to sit down later on and work on the sides and the back uh to bring around some of those Design Elements um when I looked at this my concern was the I guess the South Side the left side which might be the side that's facing perhaps Main Street there should some of those large trees disappear down the road you know but that was my main concern but I I think the back you know the other side as well um I I do agree with our planner and I know you've heard this from Mr Collins our attorney to that the ordinance is pretty clear around the roof line and I you that does stand out um I think visually this is this is looking really good but the roof line jumps out really just that that flat long roof line and it it isn't pitched and it doesn't even you're talking the rear of the building of the roof line in general from the front yeah that it's a flat roof line yeah I know I you that those Gables stick out two three feet it's not flat across the top you know maybe because you're looking at it straight on but that's again those those are sitting in front of the roof correct yes for the most part okay so it's still the roof is still not pitched I I know it's a sticking point I'm not gonna I don't want to repeat it over again I just that that stands out to me as well just to to agree with that um I think we'll we'll talk about engineering and the outside the architecture later have a couple questions okay one other I'm not sure if this goes into architecture because it has to do with the inside um but I've been asked by a couple residents uh an unique question around sound proofing between the units so I don't know if that's a question for now or for later if you could just share proof the walls the mising walls between each unit yes we do is there any kind of Standards those are done to or is it what's see yes could you share that is uh sure we could uh do double sheetrock with double walls we could do uh that's typically what we do MH and uh the key is vibration is what causes the noise so we have to take out uh we have to put in gaps between the sheetrock so that the vibration doesn't go through the walls but look this isn't our first rodeo we we we've built buildings we know how to do it and uh we have very few complaints okay all right I'll Reserve questions for later thank you hi so are you saying that the Gable in your opinion is the roof my interpretation of the ordinance is you didn't want a flat roof line going across so we sat with the Architects we looked at the architectural uh makeup of the town and we came up with this plan I think it's a beautiful plan uh the fact of the matter is we did break up the roof lines that it doesn't run straight across in their separation and personally I think it it's a it's a good design I think it looks very nice as well um it's a nice architectural design with the gables but I agree with everybody else that's not the roof it's more of an architectural design um and so you have this membrane that is going to go across it and it's going to be a flat roof um so my next question is what is the height of the compressors 36 Ines okay so Above This by the way it's not a flat roof it's a pitched roof so the front of the building is going to pitch to the rear so it's not going to be a completely flat roof okay is hard to the water off so the compressor is 36 in we're talking 3 feet that will be above the roof line so no no no it'll be below the the roof line then below the parit line in the front I think the confusion is where on the rendering where the windows fall versus where where the uh you know there's if you look at the windows on the fourth floor and it goes up to the top of where the roof line is right so how do you have a window look like apartment right are those half circles decorative or are they actual windows so the roof um or the ceiling on the fourth floor will only go as high as the shutters the interior ceiling yes will be 9 ft well I can't no but on here will it end with the top of the shutter no it will go above where you have the decorative window yes so there that's part of the interior of the fourth floor so the air conditioner cannot start until above that point the air conditioners as I testified before are going to be in the middle of the group you're not standing in front of the building even if there were no Gables you would not be able to see these units I'm trying to you know express to you you will not see these units they will be clustered in the middle of the roof so that you can't see them so what we did was added the gables because of your ordinance sloped roof um we consider this roof here the GES a roof but and then the main roof structure is slanted it goes from the front to the back so it's not going to gather water trying to explain it the best I can it's just hard to visualize because if you are if if this is going to be seen from the road you're not going to see the beautiful part of the building the only thing you'll really see is the top and I just want to make sure that those air conditioners aren't going to be the view that people see not see the airers from from Road from parking lot you will not see the air conditioners I'm under o just to clarify see just to so the way I understand it if you look at the South elevation or the North elevation the air conditioners are going to be in the center of the building right longitudinally they're going to go down this closer to the center of the building not near the front edge or the back Edge sides okay or the sides yeah yeah okay just want to make sure I understood okay what might what might help is what's the height of the parait from the roof to the top of the parit up there from here to Here No No Yeah from all the way around right yes yeah what's what's the height of that two feet three feet three feet three feet all right yeah I would just Echo um the North and the uh South Side that something be done I mean um it was mentioned already I think by Mr Sylvester shutters would be very very easy to just put in here little things and some trees maybe planting to make it look more like front no shutters shutters we'll put the shutters shutters in how about some planting around the back to make it look a little more like the front yeah um I I know you've heard the sad nauseum um but the the unfortunate circumstances is everyone is is contending actually you guys are contending that that this isn't going to be seen but it is going to be seen it's going to be seen by the residents it's going to be seen by the people who live there it's going to be seen by the people who walk around their property who who want to enjoy um you know where where they live and um not not discrediting your your your design at all um but I don't know I I think I might be a little disappointed if I lived in the back of the building versus the front of the building would be a little less too you know um so yeah just just to to kind of mirror everything that you you've heard so far is you know just to to keep residents in mind you know even if you're thinking that no one else is going to see it you know there are people who are going to see it there are people who want to enjoy it um you know residents and their guests I agree and you know we're a dog cat friendly building so you're going to need places for right dogs to walk yeah anything we can do to kind of make it you know more um more like home'll be a nice home thank you I share the same concerns the side elevations mainly for me um you know sitting outside at Cafe perau looking in that direction well aesthetically that's not pleasing uh the front of the building is beautiful I do want to let you know that thank you I like the pitches of the roof right away I'm like oh it's like rth3 d crane um but I do have a question though and it may just be the drawing but those aren't spires on ear Peaks they on at the Peaks yeah or is that just kind of up in the air could possibly be they could be spires yes okay keep the PID well no P concern of mine and I think I don't want to beat you up too much but um the ordinance calls for pitch of the roof I think the definition of the roof is what me your A-frames or Gables as they they're saying uh they're not structural but they do provide coverage for tenants or owners um that are going to be on their front balconies Sheltering them from rain uh son um on the back like you said uh it's just not a stud pleas okay I agree with you okay so so I've got some of the similar concerns and I'm going to try to take it from a little bit of a different angle if I can um you know when I look look at the ordinance um it talks about style and you know new construction and renovation shall be a similar architectural style to the established theme within the Town Center so when I look at at this building I don't to me I don't see how this fits in what with what I see as a theme down there can you comment to that or I think we went through great strides to come up with an architectual rendering that mimics the downtown could could you give me some examples of buildings that that would be similar to I point to you know Lake Mohawk is number one okay but any particular buildings all the buildings have Gables and and and look similar to this but not not not with the the flat roof that I don't I don't believe I think they're mostly shingled you're not going to see the flat roof you're not going to see the flat roof you're going to see The Gables so let's talk let's talk to the flat roof then um you know what what I'm I'm more concern is not not the front of the building um and by the way it it is a beautiful building I'm just questioning does does it meet the standards of the ordinance it's a beautiful building um when I when I look at the rear of the building which is I guess the the west side and driving along uh route 517 um if I look at the setback from the rear of the building to the lot two how many feet is that the engineer would have to answer that okay so so the question I'm going to I'm going to ask is I I I believe the answer is about 10t and can you really screen it with 10t if if lock two gets developed I think you're going to see the rear of that building oh absolutely and and I'll be honest you know I I believe that even if LP 2 doesn't get developed because 5117 is at a higher elevation you're still as you're driving along 517 going to see the rear of that building and when I look at the rear building you know what I what I see is a is a flat roof with with no nothing similar to what's what's on the front any comment to that I think it's a pretty nice rear of the building view uh probably nicer than many of the buildings in town already but does it does it meet the ordinance in your opinion does it meet the ordinance again that's a legal question in my opinion what we did on the front of the building is is how we try to conform to the ordinance all right so so again I think you've heard that the the the concern that everyone has is that um the roof doesn't have the pitch that we would like it to see that I think that the ordinance requires um in addition I think the rear of the building is going to be viewable so I think the rear of the building would need some more architectural work done to it in order to complete apply with the ordinance and then the last section I'm going I'm going to comment on is is you know each facade must be treated architecturally not just the main entrance the front side and Rears of the building should be coordinated and compatible colors and materials and to me when I look at the at the front versus the sides and the rear it's you know the the co color is consistent I you know I I get that but I think the windows are different shaped it doesn't have the shutters it doesn't have the same treatments that the front has so in in my mind I'm I'm not seeing the compatibility between the sides I think if I may Mr chairman as indicated by Mr McNerney before reasonable conditions regarding materials and colors to ensure that the air conditioning units are shielded we just spoke about shutters I would put it a different way is that the condition to add more definition and architectural treatments to the side and rear of the building uh and the applicant has indicated that it would work with whatever design professional is determined so so I'm trying to think of the right way to put it so so it sounds like you're willing to accept the condition that this is not the final design of the front or the sides I'm sorry the front the not the front but the front even with with the roof a little bit but the sides in the rear um the concern I have is similar to what we talked about I think at a previous meeting is you know that type of condition to me kind of says you know what what happens if we don't if there's a disconnect or the misunderstanding I'm trying to prevent that is you know I I think when we we've talked in the past when we spoken in the past we've talked about we'd we'd like to see some more and again you have done more I appreciate it it's a beautiful building but not sure in my view it's not complying with the ordinance I'd like to see a design that complies with the things that we spoke about tonight I think in those terms Mr chairman as we've indicated this is what our proposal is we're willing to deal with reasonable conditions those are conditions of approval if we disagree we come back to the board okay okay not agreement but I understand your POS your position um and I think that was it from the architectural perspective let me just do a quick check here so yeah one just in terms of of the parit um that's going to hide the air conditioners um you know when I look at the other buildings in in town and this goes to similar buildings of of this size you know I typically see a a shingled parapet and is it is there a reason that you didn't want to go with a shingle par you got to understand what the parit is for it's not to not too hide the air conditioning units it's for safety reasons if someone's on a roof working you can't just have a drop somebody walk off the roof right the parit is for safety for our workers but servicing the air conditioners but you could put up a fence I think that the the discussion we happen is does architecturally satisfy the design standards of the ordinance you could put up a fence and that going to stop somebody from falling off the roof uh is that a question that you wanted me to answer I think we did conform okay to the ordinance that's my opinion okay okay I have nothing further I have one last question and this is just for my own Amusement somehow I heard the design look green I thought it would gold um the wall behind this is that a similar color that you were proposing in your design kind of the back wall there I me no no no no it's more of Earth Tone tank correct yes all right I mean I know it could be a condition but just I'm color blind I guess thanks okay oh I do have a question is it going to be a um pre-finished Hardy uh Factory finished color or is it gon to come white and you guys are no no no Factory we're not yeah okay okay unless anybody has any questions I'm going to uh open up to the public and again I'd like to remind the public if you can um this is an opportunity to ask questions based on the testimony that you've heard um as opposed to comments and opinions please have the the questions related to testimony that you've heard and addressed to the applicant so if if anybody from the public has any any questions or comments or questions of the applicant you know please feel free to come up to the mic and raise your questions Kathy cows and SCS Road thank you and you understand you're still under oath I do thank you um And to clarify my questions have to be around the building as presented tonight around the testimony tonight's testimony tonight's testimony is it limit tonight or can it be kind of um why don't why don't you ask questions and if Mr chowki objects he'll tell us okay so my questions are in the form of two categories one is the site plan and one is the building so I'll start with the building um so question one is around the materials and the color on the sides back and rear so in you're drawing it appears uh and you mentioned brick it appears brick is on the front of the building only is that correct it's our plan to uh apply some brick and cultured stone to the front of the building to break up the uh the finishes where would the cultured stone be along the bottom it's really hard to see if from the picture perspective bottom see it thank you all right so that's probably about maybe three foot fa from the bottom is that fair to say the culture Stone yeah I'd say three feet okay not sure if you can see that cultured stone three feet okay and then uh same question on the sides it looks like it appears to be concrete from the drawing that's the impression I got is that correct it does not when you get closer okay so that is the Hardy plan is that right this is the the Brick C got it thank you and that's on all four sides right correct sir thank you uh and on the pictures the black L looking thing what's being discussed as a parit um all that is a side view of these Gables so if you look this way you would see oh okay the black thing is the side view of Gables I'm just writing that down okay I was under the impression the black thing was the parit so that kind of makes me fused because we're talking about a par ofit but on the building picture it's not shown right parit that runs around the whole perimeter of the building that's 3 feet high but it's not shown on the drawing only way you would see it on the drawing is if you look down from from a bird's eye view okay I got it so all right got it all right um how do you enter and exit the building how many exits and entrances are there it's really hard to see I apologize One sides only one in the center and two on the sides one on each side rather how about the rear of the building rear the building you don't you don't have any entrance no exits on rear okay uh does that meet the fire code for emergency exits yes it does okay can you tell me tell me more about what that would be what have a entry at the center of the building then we have two side doors at each end of the hallway that conforms to the fire got it and those are considered on the sides emergency exits exits are there any deemed emergency exits in in case of fire well there exits you can they'll probably have a bar there yes a push bar we have here only on the sides yes how far do the balconies extend what are the dimensions of the balconies 5T 5T area wise 5T by 5 by 15 okay is there any fall protection um uh conceived of what fall protection for the Balon some of them are high for for story prot wall protection yes railings railings okay and what material are the the balcony railings made out of okay that's not included in the materials you discussed earlier either going to be RW iron or PVC um okay okay second floor exterior rear um on the picture that you're standing in front of um it appears there are extra boxes on the South Side are those windows the three boxes on the second floor that seemed to be misaligned to the windows that are up and down the balcon spot these on these are three extra windows is that right yeah yes and what is the significance of those windows why are they that's the whole dwell and is there a reason why they're only on the second floor extra windows um regarding the roof material can you explain what an elastic membrane is I've never heard of such a thing because not a construction person rubber just rubber a liner in a pool okay um and what is the pitch of the roof I have heard a lot of discussion around the pitch um but not an indication of the actual um inches or however you would measure the pitch of a roof uh I don't know the exact pitch enough B of water to to uh GRE two I heard 2% on the audience is that fair does he need to be sworn in if he's giving that as a testimony witness is sworn I'm not I'm adding any credibility to okay architect should testify as to grade a slope of roofs but I don't think that we we know that it is not a pitched roof in the sense of a pitched appearance from the road that's what's relevant here I understand that and the reason I'm asking about the pitch is because I believe it's part of the ordinance right so what is the that specification I'm not going to answer those questions that's up to you okay so then let me ask the witness um how does the pitch of the roof meet the ordinance and does it my opinion it does in what way have gable roof again I I don't think the gables are part of the roof I'm asking about the the building structure the pitch of the roof if I may Mr chairman this question's been asked and answered several times if there's another question that's fine if there's a disagreement certainly there'll be a public comment okay I I I agree are there any lightning rods conceived we talked about spires on the top of each of those um Gables are they lightning rods no they're not lightning rods but we will have a ground for the entire building okay how about bird prevention I mean it's a pretty flat roof um I would think that you would potentially have birds that would want to kind of Nest up there um do you have any conceived mitigation for birds to deter birds from being up there think about that I guess once we well you're welcome see once if it's ever built then we can survey the bird Pock interesting okay okay well I think that's all I have on the building um regarding the site plan is that picture here today for reference will be the engineer okay so that's further testimony then I can ask questions of of the engineer at a later time tonight correct is that right all right I think that covers all my building questions thank you thank you any other members from the public wish to to speak sure hi Mark Scott 92 L Parkway do you understand your cylinder oath uh from last week last month or March Actually March okay yes sir thank you sir I take offense to the statement that this would be the most beautiful building in town I don't I know no other building in town that looks like The Adams Family home um Mr day is this for questions or I agree yes so do you have you considered have you considered what what would happen in the event of a fire with a with PVC uh balconies no okay PVC balconies PVC is poisonous at 10 parts per million in a fire and that's there's Benzene that comes out of uh PVC ni could release toxic and harmful Airborne contaminants hydrogen cord all right so I'm testifying okay that's right I just wanted to ask you have you been on 517 because I was standing on 517 just the other day and then I went home and I superimposed approximately where the building would be would you know that well why because I want I took your I took your plans and I went up there and saw the site and then I walked it off SC you're now testifying and you're supposed to be asking this with question how are we not going to see the building from 517 that's that's a good question speaking about an exhibit that was self building on a wrong lot this is not an exhibit yet sir Mr Scott you you'll have to present your own testimony on when you want to present an exhibit what does that mean Tom when it's your turn to testify you will be able to present an exhibit of your own making and it's not testimony time yet okay that occurs after the witnesses of the applicant are done which could happen fairly soon if the engineer finishes tonight but they're gon to your time now is to cross-examine only not to testify the only way to present an exhibit is to testify and you'll have to do that in your in the open portion of the testimony portion of a hearing you're familiar with hearings right yes sir thank you okay I'll behave I promise um ma'am were you previously sworn in this case I think so but it's Beth sure I promise Beth you better I don't I don't remember if you're sworn in this case so please raise your right hand do you swear from to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth so help you God yes and please state your name and address Beth prick North Shore Sparta thank you I have two really easy questions would you mind yeah so is there a plan to put window guards I don't know if there's an ordinance or rle in spage for window guards for children under the age of 10 in like multi family dwellings but if there is can I assume you'll put them like do you know if there's plans to put them in or is there an ordinance or you guys we have children at the site at the project we would put them in yes okay and then is there cuz I missed a couple of the meetings is there access around the back for fire trucks and stuff no okay so the only way if there's a fire would be through the two side doors or the front door access yes for the firemen or the windows so if a fire breaks out in the back they'd have to go through the side to get to it instead of being able to go through the back yes but understand this is going to be a fully sprinklered building so sprinklers I think go I work in healthcare so I don't have a fire safety background the sprinklers are what 90 just enough to get people out of the building or do they last work long enough for the fire department to go from the cross like I'm just curious I'm not trying to be argumentative I work in healthcare so I have no idea I really can't answer that that would be up to the engineer okay no problem thank you thank you please raise your right hand do you swear oh I'm an attorney I'm sorry so Mr day um the woman attorney for Chase Bank uh realizes that it's running late and we're probably not going to get to Chase Bank tonight and so uh I think she would like to carry to a date certain and that would be a good idea because it doesn't seem we're going to be getting to Chase Bank tonight I could just say my name for the record Erica Antonio pario from sh and John tamasi PC um on behalf of the applicant JP JP Morgan Chase Bank um as the board attorney stated given the hour and my understanding is they still have to present their engineer I'd like to request that we carry this meeting uh to the next available meeting date that that's acceptable in terms of a date we'll have to work that out we do have to stay a date so we we'll stay a date for now um the goal will be I think uh June 5th I think well we have another we have a preemptory date on June 5th for another application that so we will be doing this case on June 19th 19th if we can that's the goal and we'll carry without additional notices so so on on the 19th we already have two other applications I think it's still good to do that carry it okay um because we'll see whether they are ready too and um uh this will have prior status because it started tonight um so so U and we can't I don't want to push us out into July agree which is a complicated month to begin with because of holidays so um without further notice the chase I'm sorry JP Morgan Chase Bank site plan application is being carried to uh June 19th at 700 p.m. in this meeting room and the there be no requirement for further mailed notice or Public public notice uh anyone here on Chase uh I'm sorry JP Morgan Chase Bank uh that will not be heard tonight and we will not be hearing statements about that tonight in the open session because it's part of a hearing so thank you excuse me Mr CS that's that's that's juneth which is a a public holiday cor do you know if the offices close that we're not closed okay I don't think it's a state or Township holiday and we do need to use our we scheduled as a regular meeting so we'll celebrate the Day having public meetings and celebrating juneth which is very good so I'm not I'm not I'm actually trying to I'm being serious that it's a good thing to to recognize the Democracy that we have in our country and to perhaps make a statement about it on that night so thank you okay thank you thank you for for your patience okay any other members from the public wish to uh ask any questions of the applicant relative to the testimony sir uh were you previously sworn in this case thank you please you you understand you're still under oath and please St your name Adrian 12 Brook dri thank you I have a few questions about a testimony tonight um I heard that the U design in part relies on trees screening the back of the building 80 foot trees a hill so that there is less need for architectural detail on the rear of the building um when you check the trees was there a tree specialist checking for what species there are currently in Sparta s County there is a blight of dying ash trees and I believe there's quite a number of ash trees on that hill so that within a few years we will lose our visual screen to the back of Mr chairman are we having testimony or a question well that that's my question have you considered have you consulted a tree specialist to see what species are there uh that you rely on for the architectural feature of the rear of the building again that's not a question you have testimony that's a question question can can I finish please it's not a question is the question that have you inspected the types of trees in the rear without an editorial part then you could answer the question okay okay so when I asked my question I asked the question with a context because context your editorial the context is that the Tre Mr if you could just the question I think it's the the attorney is repeating himself Mr mirman is your question if they inspected the trees to find out what kind of trees they are in the light of the blight that we are suffering from again that's an editorial talking about blight there is no testimony before this board about blight or anything else if you want to ask about the character of the trees please feel free to do so but do not editorialize and try to testify Mr Collins can I can I get your help with this one to get the Mr mayman knows how to ask a question he should do that okay repeat my question or no just ask a question don't testify it's simple enough Mr mayman please just ask him a question did you have a specialist a botanist an arborist check the composition of the tree cover on your site and on the site behind between your site and roote 517 no okay okay when you designed the um air conditioning units on the roof you rely on the side angles so that they will not be visible from any near distance from the building have you considered adding a feature around the air conditioners such as what might be called a Widow's walk a a low fence that is a traditional feature that screens any objects on the roof just to make sure that you comply the way you want to comply no when you consider the architecture in Sparta or in the wider area to come up with your current improved design how many buildings how many buildings served as a example as an example for where you wanted your architecture to go many is there an approximate number on the 10 10 to 20 no I'm not sure what the no refers to could you could you be more clear did you no was to your question my question is how many buildings did you use as an example to come up with your current design and my answer was many and you cannot be more specific no okay were they buildings in our Township or were the buildings also in the wider area what area The Wider area wider area well Sparta outside of Sparta outside of Sparta no just Sparta oh spot I have a question about a comment that was made by Mr Collins earlier about the roof line he um there's a parapet wall which is a safety wall and Mr Collins mentioned another solution a menart roof did you consider consider a menar roof at all for the top floor in order to comply with the pitch roof requirement of the ordinance no is that a suggestion that came up that you you might consider as part of the approval as part of going moving forward building a mansard roof um a mansard angle for the top floor no so as it is you plan to keep the roof um the walls completely straight from ground level to the roof line that's not true okay these walls aren't level you have indentations in between the gables you have railings it's not a straight uh a straight line okay uh when we look at the rear of the building the uh the drawing at your feet are those balconies protruding from the from the uh building envelope or do they go inwards into the building envelope they protrude they protrude okay when I look at the corners do I see correctly that the building Corners show a straight line from the ground to the roof no lower right is that a straight line no as as you can see over right on on the schematic as you can see we have cornerstones or Corner uh treatments on each of the corners so it's not the straight line okay when um last but one question um when you consider working with the township to change improve or alter the design to win an approval would you consider only Town officials or would you consider other professionals uh that are not necessarily part of the planning board only Town officials only Town officials um May I address the township uh the um the council with one uh request not yet board not yes Mr mayman when when testimony is open to the public that's the time to testify okay and that will be in a few minutes okay good maybe no well okay that question I will reserve for that last 5 minute period before 10:00 thank you thank you for answering thank you Alex barardi Alex please do you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do please state your name and address Alex barardi 8 Northshore terrce Please spell your last name e e r a r d i um is there a homogeneous architectural theme throughout Sparta would you say that um the Ocean State Job Lots uh Burger King all the banks is there a theme between all of those buildings no no um you'd really say the only theme that you would see in town would be you know the Crane style theme in uh in Lake Mohawk and the surrounding areas yeah and the Peaks the grand Peak on that seem to kind of comply and with with the the one theme that you do see in town yes yeah all right um in terms of uh building I assume that you're going to have to submit plans to the building department absolutely and they will be reviewing um the sprinkler system all of the life safety stuff within the buildings the Ingress and egress in the building correct okay and um are there any other architectural features of the building that you think relate to sort of the Crane style that you know I think the building is trying to to capture well you see the balconies y we could have just put black piece head across there more expensive to do arches generally speaking than it is to do straight straight headers and stuff correct yes that's correct addition the entry the entry is I consider it to be grand entry pisters up each side big Windows uh a very decorative door I think uh everything that you see on obviously costs money but we're willing to invest that extra money to make it something that's uh appealing to the town people yeah and also um these buildings have to get certified by the DCA correct Department of Community Affairs and they're the ones who are going to again not only the building inspector and the municipal ectors but they're going to further certify that it's in compliance with all of the dca's rules and regulations in terms of safety um window safety and all that type of stuff that's correct for the first five years new building has initial inspection and then every year thereafter the DCA has an inspection all right that's it thank you are there any other members of the public that wish to ask any questions okay seeing none so um I'm going to suggest that we just do a quick five minute break just to let people stretch their legs we'll come back and we'll uh we'll go from [Music] there e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Mr chassi if I could so typically we we don't go with new um testimony after 10 o'clock so I'd like to we can go to 10:15 but i' like to call the meeting Clos at 10:15 tonight so folks can get home Mr chairman I would prefer to finish this evening uh as a courtesy we did extend this from the May 1 meeting uh I mean I do have Mr Burton Mr Burton made some minor revisions but it seems that we spend uh a lot of time with questions I would prefer we could finish I I I understand um you know the people up here um are all volunteers they they have to be they may have obligations tomorrow morning um so you know we'll go we can go to 10:15 but I think 10:15 is where we have to draw the line tonight well we we'll certainly try to finish I do have Mr Burton who made some minor revisions okay so why we why don't we go through that so Mr B Burton you're you're still under oath uh just state your name for the record again please yes I am under oath Kalisto Burton right and Mr Burton was there a revision to the site plan yes and what was the revision date I I'll I'd like to say I have an exhibit here called site plan exhibit of today's date I've already marked it as A6 with today's date on there thank you to illustrate the change it's just a it's an enlargement of the site plan and we took all the notes off so it's easy to see you stand next to the site plan tell us what changes you made and I'm going to stay so everyone so the the the first there was comments about uh we had the sidewalk and I'm going to call the um the the right side of the plan North okay it's Northeast but we'll call it North okay so there we had the sidewalk running along the north side of the property and then crossing the driveway there was a concern about safety so remove the sidewalk from the building outside or the spa Avenue turned off maybe did the sparta AV there it goes no it was working it was working hello one two now it's not now it's not kala yeah pick up that one two that's on now it work okay's the battery this let me scoot this [Music] way oh it might not be long enough no no it's just Tangled okay well I'll move I'll move to the other side of the room okay um so we moved the sidewalk to the south side of the parking lot so I'm going to trace my finger from the fr front door we'd move to the South along the south side and then we continue um to the um Cemetery side and then out out to Sparta Avenue that alleviates any movements through the parking lot itself correct correct so there's nobody has to walk through the parking lot to do that I shifted the parking lot the four feet back to the uh North property line and we still maintain the 5- foot buffer okay so we don't have that very right and we also add we added Landscaping in that 5- foot buffer because I had the buffer I didn't have enough Landscaping so that's taken care of now um we still the parking lot still grew a little bit to the South Side so we had to add some retaining walls low retaining walls along the sidewalks remember the goal of this was to minimum do minimal disturbance to the to the land and so that's how we we had it before but we we have to do a little grading and put a little few little walls around there to support the sidewalks okay the next thing is since we were doing that I took the opportunity to tweak the parking lot Arrangement uh you recall well the way it is now as you come in the parking lot on the North side there's no parking on that line we had the same condition on the South Side no parking along that line which I'm not a fan of I think you you get more more efficient parking lot if you have parking surrounding the uh uh the lot except we couldn't do that on the on the North side because that's where our loading zone is we want to come straight in so we put parking along the south side and in doing so we moved the trash that was closer to the building farther away from the building so the truck can come directly into it it's it's farther away from the building I just think it's a it's a uh more efficient layout and the um Transformer moved a little bit further away from the building next there was a question about the percentage of landscaping in the center of the parking lot 5% or whatever it's required so we did not have that we did not have that and so we we enlarged the two endcap islands you know landscape islands in the middle of the parking lot still couldn't get it so we added a landscape strip in the middle of the parking lot right that's what we did but again we were trying to keep the footprint of the pavement in in the same spot without increasing because the further we go out and the more grading we have to do the more retaining walls and it's not a cost thing it's just a environmental thing so what we did is all the parking spaces are 9 by 20 so these are 9 by8 the parking spaces in the center of the parking lot two things one they can overhang the parking the the landscape Island but two the residential site Improvement standards for residential is 9 by8 so they comply with the state standards that's consistent with SP as ordinance it's also correct uh yes I understand that this yes okay so um there was also concern about the amenity area being closer to the building and I understand that If This Were a mixed use and we're downtown and we had commercial we'd want all the activity right up against the building but this is a residential building and at 9:00 at night or 8:00 at night anybody who's right up down at the bottom of the building everyone is going to hear that conversation if the windows are open so what we did do is we we tried to do a compromise we had a couple of park benches we had a bench by the front door we had a couple benches now this is going to be the southwest corner of the lot okay we had a couple benches there so we moved part of the amenity space to the corner over there by the the the Transformer so that was the sitting area and and we we moved that there so we have now we do have some areas that you can congregate up along the front of the building we did leave the fire pit and the um picnic tables out where they were and for for two reasons one because if someone's having you know an evening Gathering we don't want to be disturbing the the uh other residents but also if you've been to the site and you stand here you got a view of the entire Valley you can SE far we're up against the building you don't have that same kind of view and so we we like this View and if we want to show I mean there there's plenty of other projects we've done where that amenity space is further from the um the building but anyway so we have two amenity spaces now I guess you know more Gatherings whatever but again the amenity space at the uh east end of the parking lot does overlook the cemetery and then you can have a view of the uh Valley right okay um I was asked I was given some dimensions for the fire truck um and on drawing C 2.7 we show the fire path that truck so that truck works and it gets all around the site one question came up about talking about the building and can we do landscaping so um the the balconies are shown the building setback from the rear line is 14 foot 8 that's what it is uh the required setback is 10 feet which takes us to the the balconies um so if you look in the landscape plan we have red maple trees uh planted along the rear property line um between each balcony so we did do something in the Landscaping to work with the building right uh and you mentioned before um Mr chowski that we did have our Wetlands consultant go out and look at the site and he confirmed that there were no on-site wetlands I think that was it now Mr Burton there were several reports receiv received yes Mr heuse the microphone please I'm sorry we'll stand next to there were several reports received fire prevention department of utilities and uh Mr Simmons two reports uh did you have the opportunity to review them yes I did and I'll I'll go through the uh um the reports the um Department of utilities from Sparta Township had a had three comments um oh any existing utility connections that are not going to be reused should be abandoned yes we're going to do that that's a building code requirement um he mentions and this is a good suggestion a hot box and Master Meter with an rpz that's a you know backflow preventer be located um at the bottom of the hill between the street and the the tank um the water storage tank and and that's actually a good idea so the hot box is used to put the water meter in because we're bringing water above ground and we're not in uh the Central America so it freezes in the winter um so that's why there's a it's called a hot box because it's an insulated box and we'll put that at the bend in the driveway near the tank so the water line will come into the box be metered and then go to the tank into the building um and remember we have a fire hydrant so the hydrant I guess is going to to be metered as well but these hot boxes are large enough and uh to have both a domestic and a fire line and I didn't check with the water department usually when we get to the building plan stage whether they want two lines a separate domestic and a separate water domestic and fire because if you don't pay your water bills they'll turn off the domestic but they will not turn off the fire so that could be Downstream of the uh the meters but we'll that'll be at the building permit stage um anyway we're going to do that and they asked for the sanitary manhole out in the street to have the uh name Sparta in the year that it's installed we have one we're bringing in a new uh sewer line from the building all the way out to Sparta Avenue we have a couple of manholes those are regular manholes but the one they went out in um in in the in the highway they'd like to have this Sparta logo on there um fire prevention had a couple of comments um the the stpine system and uh okay so the fire department connection for the building's got to be within 100 ft of the uh uh hydrant so you could see the hydrant is in the corner of the parking lot near the building the water room is in that back corner of the building on the southwest corner of the building um we did not put it it's pre preliminary but we'll have the sies connection or the fire department connection on the front wall of the building in this area which is only going to be 40 feet from the uh uh water meter um then he asked for calculations for the fire pump and uh the water tank to make sure it's large enough that's all part of the mechanical electrical Plumbing design of the building and that will be done it's a building code requirement the next one is they he asked for um some no parking fire Lanes be added along the driveway well it was based on the prior plan where we had no parking along the south side of the parking lot so we had it there and along the north side where we get to the um loading zone so um I think it's a good idea um we'll put signs along the um north side of the parking lot so there's nobody parking there fire zone and when we get to Mr pel uh Mr Simmons comments we'll probably we're going to put some down by the Burger King and the shot a little retail Center across there so that there's no parking on that driveway um another comment is about a a radio uh responder radio for the inside the building that's a fire code thing usually with multif family buildings that's put in it's to make sure that the fire department has Communications when they're when they're in the building and that's again a building code thing and the last comment is about nox boxes and that's just the uh fire department has a master key to get into a KNX box well Knox is the first company that came out with the box and so it's a KNX box it's like Kleenex tissues right so it's a master key and then in that box is the key for the building and of course we'll do that and then you know maybe briefly Mr Bon I think you went through both of Mr s's reports with is there anything in there that you couldn't comply no oh actually we can comply with um everything uh I'm looking at the traffic report dated May 9th and everything is just comments about the traffic study and the uh impacts the very last item on page five number four is that in inclement weather there is no location to access um the drive to Park when with school with with parents waiting for their school children well with children waiting to go to school and that's why I suggested we'll put no parking signs down along the the base of our driveway by Sparta Avenue so no one's parking there and uh it was testified last time that people really wait in that shopping center next door of small retail center for the bus to pick up but that's the impetus for putting some no parking signs and then uh Mr Simmons had a letter dated main 10th which is on the site plan we can comply with everything here there was um a leftover comment on item 3D under site plan about well I can't see it on this exhibit but we have a driveway going into lot two and that's a leftover comment um there's a parking lot um for the the little retail Center that's along Sparta Avenue that extends into lat too so that's why that driveway is there to provide them access um I think I don't think there are any other comments that we have unless Mr Simmons thinks there's something he'd like me to respond to but otherwise I think we've if if there's any requirements we can comply with them so thank you uh Mr Burton Mr chairman that's all I have for Mr thank you okay Mr Simmons any follow-ups questions C certainly Mr chairman uh again just Mr Burton highlighted a lot of the issues in my report but just looking at the May 10th 2024 report uh basically on page three he highlighted the main six items that they revised in the change of the plans uh as far as maintenance responsibility for for the access Drive I believe that is the applicant's responsibility and they agreed with that yes uh there were easements that were shown on uh the dyer Walker survey map that were provided and Corporal Morris asked me to check those easements out which I did I sent him copies and basically those easements as I read them gave the adjoining property owners rights to use the access drive that we're referring to as part of this application my understanding is it did not give anyone that owns this particular property right to use the other properties adjacent to it so that was the distinguishment that I took uh they described the existing curb cut to lot if you could just go back on that one more time I want to make sure I understood that in other words you've got the 33t wide stem 3033 whatever actually scales out that leads to this property the easements as I read them give the adjoining property owners rights to use that stem okay but it did not and I stand corrected but it did not give the right for this applicant to use those other adjacent properties in other words I know uh Mr Burton was talking about if uh someone wanted to drop off their kids they could go through through the adjoining property they may do that as a courtesy with the adjoining property owner but I don't think there's any deeded right to that effect thank you just so everybody's aware of that um with regards to the 18t slope on adjacent lot two uh I just point out Mr Collins had discussed that briefly before uh there was a site plan for a Wawa at one time on that adjacent property between the back of this property and Route 517 and I didn't check the exact site plan but it's not inconceivable to me that that slope could be graded away as part of any future site plan so as far as if that slope was graded they'd be obviously taking trees off of that so there may be some situations where uh that buffer that's there might be gone in a future application in addition across the street you've got the Mohawk house if you were up on top of that Hill I think looking back call it to the east I think you'd be able to see the proposed building from the rear okay so I want to make that clear based on what I see uh again there's about 9,800 plus cubic yards of material to excavate from this particular site with regards to the driveway plan again they did as Mr Burton pointed out uh provide pedestrian access all the way from the site all the way down to the sidewalk uh Network for the Township's roads and along spart Avenue rout1 so that was that was a good thing and again the only thing is there's no room down there to park they're talking about putting no parking signs but basically the kids wouldn't have the ability to sit in their parents' car or what have you down there by the intersection uh we did do a separate report traffic report just to address a few things I'll get to that in just a moment with regards to the Loading spaces they do have the design waiver for one space of loading Space versus four uh I believe it's a waiver technically from the one Township section for the uh 4ft setback from the parking lot to the sidewalks uh that is close to the building in that area with zero foot uh they did add the additional Landscaping in the center of the parking lot which he talked about and there is a note on the plan just so everyone's aware of it uh they are calling for an irrigation system for all the landscape areas that's not designed that would be subject to review of the construction official Plumbing subcoat official plus the water department to make sure the adequate backflow preventers and what have you were installed so there was no cross-contamination uh the Water Department had provided information on the sewer and water system comments that they wanted that was taken care of storm drainage they have provided the storm drainage system with recharge as we discussed in previous uh discussions um again they will require dot approval to tie in to the drainage and spart Avenue because it is a state highway uh we talked about the uh details for the water system would be subject to the water department and also for the acoustical mitigation for the generator on the north side of the building architectural plans the board went over that with regards to signage they haven't changed the uh signage that they're proposing as far as the one Monument sign and the identification sign is there any illumination provided or proposed for either of those signs or not no none at all okay fire protection again that's going to be subject to the water department and the fire department for their review as far as uh as far as the uh environmental impact statement the noise level over the hbac again they're going to have to meet that requirement and regardless of what uh mitigation they might have to apply and with item number 14 I listed all the existing and proposed approvals that they're going to require for this as I see it we recommend an asilt plan and any of the Coler requirements then what I did on the traffic report I know there was a lot of discussion with regards to the access drive so I I did some research and I tried to put this in perspective uh I went on the County's website and I dug out a lot of information from the 1960s just to try and get some information on the history of this particular piece of property and way back when it's about 64 uh there was the Valley View in it was on septic system so that really limited the number of units on there but they had 16 units based on the information I was able to get from the historical records then around 1987 the valley the uh in changed to the Valley View residential Healthcare and once again it was limited by the septic system capacity and they limited it to 26 residents then unfortunately there was a fire that destroyed everything well what I did with that information I tried to put in perspective uh what kind of traffic was generated way back at the beginning by those two proposed uses versus what the applicant is proposing today and based on some information that I research from the eighth generation of the trip generation factors I know Mr Burton had the 11th generation but the eth is what I had available close enough for what we were doing for this I think uh basically I went through those calculations and at the end of the day um the volume of traffic we're talking about when it was the Valley View in with a 16 room facility you're looking by those trip generation factors at about 146 trips per day and even if you went for a Saturday with those 16 rooms about 141 trips per day and then when I looked at the peak hours uh I summarized that on page two in item D for the Valley View in the total am peak hour trips were 10 for the 40 Apartments we're talking 12 for the PM peak hour Valley View in nine 40 Apartments 16 so the point I'm making is when Mr Burton's office did the traffic report they indicated that things didn't increase by more than 100 vehicles per day which is a trigger point for do to revise the and possibly renew and access permit that we didn't get to that point so the traffic generated compared to what was originally on the property very similar now I point out also that uh we found a traffic counting station on Route 181 and in 2017 they had 13,239 vehicles per day on Sparta Avenue now if you take that and divide that by 24 hours you get about 500 52 vehicles per hour now I'm not saying that's across the board that's just an average and I shouldn't say Obviously but obviously during the daytime hours those numbers are bigger but my point with just doing that quick calculation when you look at Mr Burton's report he had uh on spart Avenue 950 vehicles per hour in the AM Peak and 1238 vehicles per hour in the PM Peak which are both bigger than that average that I calculated so as far as an order of magnitude I think we're in the same category just just the um the peak hour is usually around 10% of the daily volume which is close to what it is that's what we found yep so we're we're talking the same order magnitude numbers then I looked as far as the queuing on spart Avenue and when I took those numbers from the peak hour uh 16 per hour and assumed a 50/50 split eight Vehicles turning at one time you get a vehicle turning about every 7even minutes so it's not necessarily A tremend mendous influx of additional left turn vehicle coming in or anything like that as far as the queuing goes and I also looked at it said what if you tried to put a left turn lane in if the dot would even consider that and the problem with that is you've got a limited pavement within that particular area and basically if you wanted to have at least three 12T Lanes that's 36 ft by scaling you've only got about 30 foot of pavement so there's really not room without really stretching things tight to try and even get something the dot might consider for a left turn lane and when you look at what I calculated as far as a queing above it really I don't think warranted it and when you look at the overall complexion if you will of Sparta Avenue there's a lot of places along that whole Corridor that different banks and what have you in businesses where we don't have a dedicated left turn lane so I think it's TR far as trying to get dot to put a left turn in Lane just for this one given the numbers that I just said I I think you'd have a difficult time then I talked about other existing traffic and obviously with the numbers I just talked about I didn't include the Burger King traffic and what have you that adds to it but again I was looking to order of magnitudes just so the board and everyone could have a a comparison what order of magnitude we were talking about is the additional traffic the one thing I did point out as far as pedestrian traffic goes uh with the sidewalk that they're proposing from the proposed apartment building down to spart Avenue they do have a continuous sidewalk uh with the Press curbs and the uh the ramping and what have you which really goes to a good way of getting the pedestrian traffic into the network of the sidewalk along Sparta Avenue so that part's good uh I did point out though that again there's no room to park down there at the intersection without causing congestion and conflict plus the existing drive-thru from the Burger King is very close to that intersection so if you had cars parked down there that could be problematic all the way around so a summary U I think it's I know they've got to go to dot for uh their utility tie-ins and their storm water tie-ins and work within uh the Occupy of the RightWay as far as sidewalks and any signage and what have you that they're going to put in uh with the other two uses that were in the past meaning the motel and the residential Health Care Facilities they really I don't think generated to the best of my knowledge any school children coming down there this is a new component that this particular application is adding to the picture so again with the school children with my discussion with Corporal Morris uh I understand the testimony was that the school bus pulled into the parking lot of the small mall right to the west of this site but I don't believe that was any official site or there's any easement for that so as far as taking care of the children uh I didn't see a solution to that directly other than they walk down there and they're there to get picked up when the bus stops along spart Avenue and that's an update on everything I did Mr chairman thank you Mike Mr chairman we have no further questions for the engineer okay um let's just go through the D and see if we can get through this we we lost Ernie lost Ernie yeah um it's 10:15 you know I I Look to Ernie as as as the board you know uh one of our one of our people relying for traffic based on his experience so i' I'd like him to be able to ask questions um so I'm I'm thinking at this point we just have to we should call a night at 10:15 okay so did you say Ernie Ernie left yeah Ernie had an emergency emgen yes um we need to work with the applicant carry the case to a date certain and get an extension from the applicant um so uh what we could do is again June 19th is the date that is the next regular meeting that's available for this group of the board um any further Witnesses by you Brian I would not have further Witnesses but I just want to remind the board that this application has probably been pending now for about eight months right when we have a 95 day review period so I understand the board's schedule and agenda but if it's June 19th I think that has to be a date certain and it's concluded I think that that can be arranged um I don't think we can finish the public testimony tonight in a short amount of time so uh with that being said I think uh if the applicants concurring as long as the board can scheduled this for June 19th at 7 pm and first my client okay for June 19th and if we could conclude on that date uh basically Mr Burton was our last witness okay so we'll we'll carry um the FL Holdings application for site plan to June 19th at 700 p.m. there'll be no additional notices uh so anybody year on FL Holdings uh case will continue on June 19th just if I may Mr chairman I was checking my notes of attendance I Believe Miss Ferman and Mr Zimmerman were not right but they rep I so I don't know if yeah I can confirm that they did sign their certifications now thank you Brian and they did T sign their certifications and I notorized them this evening so we're all set on the full membership I think I just wanted to make sure as I'm making my notes I might say okay I have new faces that I have to deal with and I think it's it's Brian but are you confirming that you're extending the time period for action until June 19th thank you thank you Mr chowki just a quick question will Mr Burton be here for questions at yes we are bringing Mr Burton back and you will also have Mr McNerney back we will be here okay s will you be considering the feedback from tonight in preparation for June 19th that is something we'll have to evaluate Deputy Mayor okay but uh we're trying okay appreciate it thank you thank you all for your thank apprciate your patience andate the uh the work you guys have done really do I'm sorry Mr D yes I appreciate the work that you've done to to to to move this forward maybe there will be some public comment I if if the chair opens and he will open it for some public comment I agree short public comment okay uh so we could do updates if we could do it real quick on um maybe just do a real quick rundown if anyone's got anything Dean anything from town Council yeah quick Town Council update from the last two meetings uh April 23rd and May 14th uh three items one is the township budget introduction uh was rescinded on 423 it was then reworked and reintroduced last night on 514 uh there's a waiting period now so the public hearing and the vote for approval of the budget will be in four weeks June 11th and the budget is available for a review online that town hall uh second up update is after numerous iterations and input uh the short-term rentals ordinance ordinance 24-4 was passed last night which governs short-term rentals in Sparta the uh effective date for the ordinance however is delayed and won't take effect until January 1st 2025 and then finally resolution 9-6 was passed last night and uh that is a resolution that authorizes uh upgrades to our existing water management system and I thought it was uh relevant for this group to hear so uh we have 14 water tanks and over 20 water pumps within Sparta um so this upgrade is to uh enhance and modernize the existing control system we're sort of the brains for the Township Water Management System it um is coming out of a last year's approved Bond uh amount uh it will be 140,000 but last year's Bond was approved for projects like this for 2 million so it's not necessarily new money and uh finally part of this is to upgrade the system and the communications from uh copper wires and and essentially telephone type wires to uh using cellular so would be it' be much more efficient um going forward so thought that was interesting and wanted to share that that's all I have for tonight okay thank you uh environmental commission mrar thank you thank you chairman for the sake of time I would just like to um say that what has come out of the environmental commission that's the most important is that we are going to be having a public hearing for the open space and Recreation committee and that's on June 13th it will take the place of our regular um environmental commission meeting at 7 p.m. so everyone's invited get the word out and where's that location right here yeah yeah environmental commission meeting will be an open space and Recreation committee meeting yeah anything else that's it okay thank you you're welcome all right uh subcommittees master plan subcommittee did not meet this month our next meeting is scheduled for June 20th plan endorsement advis advisory committee um we met back on May 6th had held a virtual meeting we're going to try and schedule a another combined meeting with the planning board and the purpose of that meeting will be to discuss and look for feedback on the proposed mission statements which are the goals and objectives of the group uh we're going to look at that that date um and we'll talk to that at the next meeting more at the next meeting Mite plan subcommittee Mr enri thank you Mr chairman we met earlier this evening and we were able to excuse me if we vote on a few of the outstanding applications I believe we only have small handful left over that we um still to V on um thanks and we're also trying to finalize our minutes so that they're made available for our next meeting when this board comes to uh comes to meet okay anything else no sir okay thank you uh Grant anything new there no no no updates on the grants yet okay and the ordinance subcommittee nothing new there we'll talk more of that at the next meeting so that wraps up the updates uh in terms of resolutions we went through those at the beginning of the meeting so that then brings us to the open to the public for matters not on the agenda and matters not related to a hearing on an application for development so are there any members of the public that wish to speak please come forward hi Alex barard 8 Northshore Terrace um I briefly got to speak to Tom uh while you guys were in executive session something recently came to mind or uh to reality when I tried to submit a site plan waiver application to Dory for uh an approved use in the Ed Zone um I was notified that the I guess in 2022 um the ordinance was changed uh so I know this is it's late it's probably not the the space or the time for a dialogue but um I'm hoping to start a dialogue uh with you guys the site plan minor site plan commit committee um the planning board and the Town Council um on on this issue we're owner operators of several uh Flex spaces north of town in uh Aaron way and um Park Lake Road most of our tenants are small local businesses gyms um distribution centers uh they are not the big ugly things that everyone uh doesn't like but the the enforcement of this ordinance is going to have a dous effect on tency in these buildings um specifically on smaller folks um it timing is a huge thing in real estate as I'm sure all of you are aware of that most tenants don't have three four five months uh which is the approximate amount of time it would probably take to get a planning board application in um it seemed previously for decades that the site plan waiver was used in that area and used efficient uh it was reviewed by you know members of the planning board uh where they would rule on it and if they found anything you know out of the ordinary hazardous materials um uses that didn't fall neatly within you know the approved uses uh then it was kicked to the to the planning board for a full hearing um I'm hoping you know we can have discussions that would give the board an appropriate amount of oversight and comfortability that they could review these applications uh potentially with professionals uh but not in the context of a formal site you know formal planning board meeting I don't know if there's a legal vehicle for that if there if that is something that can be changed by ordinance I.E you know Dave and and Tom could potentially review the minor site plan um or the site plan waiver applications certifications and all that stuff and then it could be handed on to uh the board in some capacity but timing is is a huge huge thing with these and I've never done an application that hasn't at a minimum taken four months and that's that's pushing it um I would love for that to be shorter but the reality of the situation is it just never really works out that way between my attorneys being slow them having the you know the required 45 days to review and deem it complete and all that uh it winds up being approximately four months so um I understand the board's position in needing to review these applications uh I understand the concerns about being under the above the aquafer and all those things but I hope there's a harmonious way that landlords and tenants can maybe work together to expedite the process because uh as as an operator of these buildings I can tell you emphatically that that is going to kill tenancy in in those areas and and no one has sympathy for a landlord I understand that but the sympathy should be given at least to the local businesses that will no longer be coming to this town will they be going to Lafayette and Andover in places where um these approvals can be given by a single stroke of a pen from a single person uh this the local zoning officer usually issues them within 10 days um so that's just the beginning of hopefully a longer conversation that we can have at a later date and time when it's not 10:30 at night appreciate your thoughts one clarifying question are are you suggesting the S plan waiver subcommittee exists today and their jurisdiction and approval powers are governed by ml so are you suggesting that here's what happened in in um in 2022 the ordinance for the Ed Zone specifically was changed to um imp modernize it and to improve it and one of the changes that the subcommittee and the board recommended to the governing body was to have all changes in use and all tency changes approved by the full board as opposed to the site plan waiver subcommittee and that does mean that it would have to be at least a minor a I'm sorry a waiver of site plan application or a minor site plan application if there's no variances to the full board which does take longer than the site plan subcommittee but that was something that was put into the ordinance in 2022 and and the it would if it was going to be changed it would require the similar process a recommendation by this board and a ordinance amendment by the governing body so it's a dialogue I did get to talk to Alex a little bit about it um I do think that this is this concept is something that the board and the governing body wanted to shift to the full board but um he certainly has a right to ask you to change the ordinance and to consider that um if you remember some of the key things that we care about when somebody changes use or changes tency is whether they meet the parking requirements whether they meet the signage requirements and if so what are they changing and particularly if they meet the parking because sometimes people put offices where there's warehouse and that's a different parking number and most importantly that they don't use hazardous materials Alex and his father are very familiar with that requirement and most of the existing tenants are but it is an essential proof uh to be made and the concept I think of the board in the past in 2022 and the subcommittee was let's police this by checking it at the full board level now there may be some ways to change that a little bit but it's it's complicated and the simplest way to be sure is that it comes to the board it doesn't have to be a notied hearing if it's a minor site plan or a site plan waiver if it's a variance it does have to be noticed so those get a little bit more complicated um parking variants for example gets more complicated um so we'll I don't I don't I think we're following the policy that the ordinance requires and that's what unfortunately has affected Alex and some other people so but one further clarification on that I would say probably 90 to 95% of the tenants that come in make no changes to the exterior building or the site um they take the space more or less as is they might put some demising Walls Within the space they might break it up a little bit differently but largely the spaces are um from an out from The Outsiders perspective unchanged um you know I know that also out outdoor storage is a huge thing there a lot of people start piling stuff up which no one wants to see there um so again I'm just hoping that we can maybe potentially figure out a way that the process could be a little more expeditious all with keeping in mind that I think that you're going to push a lot of small businesses out of town uh should you I mean now that you are choosing that that you're enforcing that um time time's a killer in almost all deals so all right thanks thank you thank you Mark Scott 9 poo Parkway sparter New Jersey um two things May 21st 10 a.m. at the Lake Mohawk Country Club there will be a zoom call with the D regarding the diamond chip application if anybody would like to attend also regarding hazardous materials within the uh Ed Zone I mean we do have red label chemicals and all kinds of vehicles up there that have that are filled with red label chemicals I don't know and understand why that's not enforced in Sparta it's part it's a law Mr Scott what were you showing on your phone I'm showing Red Label uh a red label container on a truck of which I have four or five photos if you'd like to see them um of red label chemicals that are used and are stored within the Ed Zone which is a violation of the ordinance there's no hazardous materials allowed in the Ed Zone and it apparently it's not being enforced actually I'm I'm not sure what you're showing Mark it's a red label it's a red label on the truck top I understand that doesn't the township does not regulate trucks or rail cars Township has no authority to regulate that that's regulated as you know by the do what the township does it does allow hazardous materials provided that those hazards materials are actually approved by the environmental commission and the planning board in the court of a site plan application so and in those events when it's done which is rare uh they have to demonstrate how they are maintaining them how they are storing them how they are recycling or reusing them and how they are not disposing them on the ground or in the air around the property or in the septic system so planning board enforces that ordinance it is enforced and and it but it applies to the users of buildings their site plans not to trucks or rail cars so I think that helps I think the ordinance says there's no red label chemicals or hazardous matal allow unless it's Zone it says unless it's approved by the planning board and the environmental commission and that's zoning right above the Germany plat aquifer it could happen that someone gets an approval to use them in the proper way is there some way that we can find out which properties do have that permission you're saying certain properties have permission to hold Red Label chemicals you could look back at at various site plan approvals and some people have had some Hazard materials I'm not saying I know that that one has it I'm not saying that the truck and that picture has it I'm saying the regulation of trucks and rail is different than the Township's regulation of site plans that's all I'm say so we were bring so that's I think Focus your attention on something some other subject maybe I suggest if if you have a situation Mark if you is to call is call the inspection call the inspector's office file a Citizens complaint or and let them research it but it's not something that I think Tom explained it well um if you have a concern like that I would report it to the town for their followup to see if they comply or they don't comply yeah I would agree Zone enforcement we'll check it out okay any other members of the public Adrian mayman 12 Brook Drive um I would like to uh refer to an much earlier development that was approved by the planning board called the North Village and I don't know if the North Village I don't know if if any member was current member was during those uh present during those hearings but at one point when the North Village was approved it came to the point of What colors would be used on the buildings and the den members gentlemen in the 70s 80s 90s all said we want Earth Tones earth tones Earth Tones and Earth Tones is really a Madison Avenue word for saying beige Earth Tones are beige gray Bland colors and they lend no character to buildings in of of a current architecture and so I would recommend that when in a future application the color of a building is to be determined and I heard from the current planning board that everybody said we're not Architects but we like earthtones um that perhaps you could consult with a color specialist maybe even a professor from roders or from a local College who has a good set of what colors are used currently in architecture to give any development large or small single building large building small building a color scheme that speaks to current sensibilities that we don't end up with essentially monochromatic buildings that show no sense of where we are in the current time time design wise um many buildings have a brighter or a more Vivid color scheme that 20 30 40 years from now may no longer speak to that generation but that will be typical of our time so for any application that you have you know coming up um I say the color of the building is as much plays a role as the shape of a building um so I recommend that you maybe deputize a specialist who can sit in on that phase of an approval process um that is one two just a minor thing the building that Dyer Associates built on Route 181 opposite East Mountain Road still does not have a full complement of trees it's something that I believe your office is in a conversation with that along Route 181 larger uh trees um be planted there is room for them whereas right now all the plantings are very very low and do not visually protect or enhance that building I believe you looking into this it's something that I think belongs it's also something that the developer said uh they'd be willing to do so excuse me I don't think that's complete though yet they're they're obligated to do that but I think the building from what I last saw it is still not finalized and I agree with you but I think it still works yeah all the other plantings that were in in that original site plan went up MH and so I know that landscape scape archit or contractors put Everything at Once mhm and so if they didn't put those threes in it's because the developer did not ask them to update uh and that's why I think we need to let concern yeah that's unable one of one of the things that we normally do when they come in for a certificate of occupancy uh you'll notice on the end of our reports there's usually a requirement for an as built by a licensed land surveyor and we'll compare that as built to what the preliminary Plan called for in this case the additional trees and we'll make note of that and we'll make sure that that gets planted okay all right good and if again just to help me clarify so you know I I hear the concern and appreciate it when I hear it I say though from a planning board perspective I don't don't know if that's within our ba work and once it's approved planning board is not right the planning board is not the administration of the implementation of site plans that is the uh planning department and the engineering department and Dave gets involved plan if you want to take it further that would probably be the you know the place all right so but the the color specialist um I think is something that you may want to discuss you know as this is a situation that will come up um understand yeah thank you thank you okay it's getting almost quarter of okay last one no one left that's why cross elimination appr propo to nothing um env1 Holdings did I understand you to say at the beginning of the meeting when you reopened that that there's movement on that I didn't understand what you said the res you you said a you made a resolution you approved a resolution but what was that resolution so so the resolution is is I want I want to make sure I say right um is to allow further discussions um and and I think i' I'd rather have Mr Brady clarify the exact words in terms of and he's not here unfortunately um but it was OLV I'm just clarifying it was env1 that was the matter that was the matter okay thank you um and again just two quick quick things is there um a consideration to confirm where bus stops go I know this is not about any application just do bus stops happen in a p in a parking lot and then 18- 8.5 which regulates the incentives for TCC side minimum sidey yard setback is 10 ft yes minimum rear yard setback is 20 feet just putting that out there okay I'm just confirming that is that correct thank you okay Tom who determines school bus stops is the Board of Ed uh solely the Board of Ed planning board has no jurisdiction no but the planning board has no jurisdiction to direct the Board of Ed to place bus stops anywhere Board of Ed decides where to put bus stops so planning board has no jurisdiction okay so I think we're I think uh with that I'd like to get a motion to adjourn Ernie's not here so I will s all right may have a second second second do I need a roll call can I do all in favor Tom favor this one you just can have all in favor all in favor I oppose see none and thank you for everybody for staying as long as you did uh was late night for everybody