Okay, good evening and welcome to tonight's meeting of the Sparta Township Planning Board. Thank you to those joining us here and online. For the record, this meeting is being held on December 17th, 2025 at 7:04 p.m. in the Sparta Township
Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street, Sparta, New Jersey. And the live stream can be viewed on YouTube at www.youtube.com/spartatwp. youtube.com/spartatwp. Please note that adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act. No
new business to be conducted after 9:30 p.m. and the meeting will end promptly at 10:00. Let us begin with a salute to our flag. >> I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Sorry, would you please call the role >> here? >> Here. >> Brian Zimmerman >> here. >> Ron Day. >> Chairwoman >> here. >> Vice Chairman Robert
>> here. >> Bodler >> here. >> Christine Dunar >> here. >> And Joan Ferman >> here. Okay, we are going to begin with the approval of some minutes
beginning with May 15, 2024. Eligible to vote Ernie Ragstead, Christine Dunar, Ron Day, Joan Ferman, Janette Burke, Celeste Luciano, and Brian Zimmerman. >> I was absent. >> You were absent. Repeat.
>> 2024. Was the year is 2020? >> Yes. Yes, you were. >> So, let it note that the agenda was needs to be amended. Ernie is not eligible to vote as he was absent from
that meeting. So open for discussion, questions, comments regarding this set of minutes. >> I have one, but do we have to have a motion before we discuss it? Just little changes. Um on page two, um where it has public hearing plus
holdings, it says carried from the 3204 agenda and then it has carried to June 19th, but then it proceeds to >> Joan, would you mind the mic? Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry. So, the minutes of May 15, 2024 on page two under public hearing
plus holdings, it states it's carried from the 3 2024 agenda, which is correct. And then it says carried to June 19th. Um, but then it goes through everything that occurred at that meeting. So, it is correct. It was carried at the very end and it has it at
the end of page. Uh page three page three. Yes, it says due to the time this application will be carried to June 19th. So I think that part is appropriate but I think it's confusing in the very beginning to put it there.
So I would just strike in the beginning carried to June 19th because there is the whole meeting of the May meeting um that we're relating to. I found it confusing when I looked at it. So it's a minor point.
>> Also Celeste if I'm looking at this I'm all over the minutes voting. So I think the typo is in >> can hear you. >> Okay. So then we say that the is in >> we can't hear you >> mentioned throughout the entire >> okay >> transcript.
>> So correction Ernie Ragstead said was present at that meeting. So let the record show that he is eligible to vote and that there needs to be an amendment of those minutes stating that he was part of the roll call and not absent for
that meeting. So that's page one. Yeah, those are your questions. >> All right. Also, page five, it's just a typo. Um, Adrian, and it >> should be Mirman. >> It should be Mirman. It says MMAN. Um, so if that would be corrected.
>> Yeah, >> it's it's correct in the rest of it, but just one section. It's not. >> Yeah. >> That was Any other questions, comments? So, can we have a motion and a second to uh approve based on the uh amendments as
put on the record? >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> I'll second. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
Okay, the next set of minutes are for August 20th, 2025. Eligible to vote Janette Burke, Arie Ragstad, Brian Zimmerman, Ron Day, Joan Ferman, Councilman Mark Scott, Burggit Bogler, Vice Chairman Rob Otto, and Celeste Luciano. Um,
>> so I personally have some issues with this particular set of minutes, but I will open it up to the remainder of the day um for questions and comments. >> I'm going to I also have some and I I'm going to um make a motion to table this again
uh because um I don't I think it is skewed. There was a lot of information. Celeste you Luciano said this, Brian Zimmerman said that. When it came to Councilman Scott and myself, it was um both Councilman
Scott and Chairwoman Ferman suggested Mr. Zimmerman. No, that wasn't it. I'm sorry. Um there were further points made by Chairwoman Ferman and Councilman Scott regarding Mayor Clark in the meeting, but there's nothing about the further points. So, it had everybody else's um comments, but it did not have
mine and it did not have Mr. Scott. So, I'd like to go back and and this time I'll take a look at I'll go back over the um uh the YouTube and try to make suggestions of what might be in there if that's okay with everybody.
>> Yeah, my my personal issue I'm sorry, Rob. >> Oh, no. I was just going to say it sound like Ernie seconded, but yeah, go ahead. Um, my personal issue is that there's there's a lot of language in here that is um that's argumentative as opposed to to
factual. So, I I really do believe that this this does need a a a second pass and that when when this is done, it needs to it it needs to be more pointed in terms of um of the facts and not um
and not about the the argument surrounding those facts. >> Typically, minutes arguments, >> right? >> Correct. And and that's one of that's one of the issues that that I have um with this with this particular set. So maybe we can all have the chance to look at it and send our comments in. And
>> yeah, I think I think that's that's definitely was my go going to be my suggestion to uh to table these. >> So we have a motion in a second to table these minutes. >> Roll call >> for further conversation. >> Can I have the roll call? >> Yes.
>> Bernie right? >> Yes. >> Zimmerman. >> Yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Councilman Mark Scott. >> Yes. >> Yes. question. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Before we move on, are is there going to be any discussion of the issues that we
have or we're just going to table it and then come back in the future >> and then >> so there'll be no there'll be be no changes between now and the next time we see this. Well, whatever changes are going to be made are going to be made between now and and
>> Well, if you have Wouldn't you want the comments of what changes should be made, >> but we're not voting to approve or or or not accept. We just had a a motion in a >> No, you already voted. It's done. I I heard it. You right. He's right. But now
between now and the next time we see this, do you want to improve the document or do we just want to let it sit static? >> Any commentary you have, please feel free to send it to Dory and she'll incorporate that into the minutes. Absolutely.
That's the intention. So moving forward on to September 3rd, 2025, eligible to vote, Janette Burke, Ernie Ragstead, Brian Zimmerman, Joan Ferman, Councilman Mark Scott, Beerit Bogler, Vice Chairman Rob Otto, Celeste Luciano, Christine Dunar. >> I I make the same motion on this one.
Table this one as well. >> I'll second. >> And just a correct, a simple correction. I I I'd like to table it as well, but um it was Chairman Rob Otto that welcomed everybody to the meeting and called it to order.
>> Yes. >> Wasn't this the night that Burgett was sworn in? >> Yeah. >> No, I was sworn in in August. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second to table these minutes. Dory, please. Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. Moving on to September 17th, 2025. Eligible to vote. Brian Zimmerman, Janette Burke, Ernie Ragstad, Vice
Chairman Rob Otto, Celeste Luciano, Beer Bogler, Ron Day, and Councilman Mark Scott, excuse me, Councilman Mark Scott, and Joan Ferman. Any questions or comments regarding these minutes? I have one. Um,
let me just find it. It's on uh the pages are not numbered. Wait a minute. Uh the odd pages are um I don't know. It's under resolution. I don't have any page numbers on any of mine. Under under resolution um 25-20
award of uh required disclosure professional service agreement for Neglia Group. It uh goes on to state with a brief discussion touching on the previously budgeted amount of $75,000 for the master plan work, but it does not have the amount that we agreed to in
the resolution. I think it was 96,000 something, but I think it should reflect what we actually approved and not what had been previously budgeted. So, do you know that number, Lindsay? Oh, and if you don't, that's fine. I don't not off the top of my head.
>> Okay. But if we could just fix that. >> Anyone else have any questions, comments on these minutes? >> Madam Chair, if I may, I I believe I was present at this meeting also. Thank you. >> Okay.
Under others present, Dave Smith, I'm sorry, Dave Simmons, excuse me. >> Um, the full amount, Dory, I have it pulled up if you need it, is $96,770, >> Thank you.
>> And Lindsay, that resulted in a contract with Nagalia. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, any other questions, comments regarding these minutes? >> All right. Can I have a motion in a second to approve based on the changes
put on the record? >> Oh, well, wait. I mean, if you're doing that Oh, never mind. Mine doesn't have a page number. Can we get page numbers on these after page five? I don't have any. So, I don't know if other people do.
>> No, after page five. >> After page five, I do not either, but then there's only six and seven. So, >> numbers up to >> then in the middle of seven doesn't really matter, but capitalize my last name and capitalize Ronda's last name
>> if we're making these changes. >> Bummer. >> Okay. So for clarity uh on page one others present would be Dave Simmons engineer on page
seven underneath resolution 2025-20 to add the amount that was approved which is 96,770 and uh under roll call for that same resolution to capitalize Ron Day's last name and Robert Otto's last name
>> and then add page numbers to six and seven. >> I add page numbers to six and seven. >> Uh actually day and auto are also lowercase at the top of that page >> in that first sentence. Roll call. >> Yep. >> At the top.
Okay. Are we comfortable? Any other questions, comments? >> Calling again for a motion, a second to approve minutes of September 17th, 2025 with the uh amendments as put on the record. >> I'll make that motion. >> I'll second.
>> You have the role. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Okay. Now, moving forward to
other board business. We have our master plan stakeholder meeting results update as presented by Lindsay Knight from Neglia. >> All right. Can you go to the beginning? Thank you.
Just for the record before we start, I did um text Celeste about this earlier. So, I just wanted, you know, for the record that as we went into some of these um meetings, we did say that it was confidential. Feel free to speak. So, I just wanted to make sure that we do have
the approvals from everybody that we are allowed to disclose this information. >> Um I was not aware that we were telling people it was confidential. Um, typically when engaging in a public process, I think it's implied that
especially with a public document, it would be implied that this information might become part of the public document. Um, in my experience when engaging in public input, we would
not say that the information would be confidential. Um, so I don't think it would be necessary to to have anyone signing. We never had anyone sign any type of documentation saying that it would be confidential. None of us are attorneys, so there's no privilege in it
as well. Um, and then also the information that we're pro providing this evening. Um, I don't think any of it is saying anyone's name, addresses, or anything that would potentially make the them known as a public person
or a public putting into this document. >> Okay. Thank you. I and I would agree with Lindsay's um summary. Also, tonight is the release of the information or discussion. So, if there was any work product, it is now becoming open to the
public. So, there's no harm in discussing it tonight. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Thank you, Lindsay. >> Yeah. So, um this is kind of the result of several public input sessions. We started with small stakeholder meetings and then had a large stakeholder meeting um which was
open to everyone in the public. The smaller stakeholder meetings were targeted groups that we the subcommittee had identified as um kind of like experts who would be experts in certain fields and would be able to give us um information for you know specific areas
within Sparta. Um so this took place over the summer and fall of this year. Um a lot of effort went into these meetings and coordination. So appreciate the subcommittee for taking their you know spare time their free time to come
commit to these uh processes. So we can go to the next slide where we'll start talking about the small focus group feedback. Um so these small focuses uh group feedback happened between summer and fall. Um the subcommittee members met with various stakeholder groups
identified by the subcommittee. Like I said, we looked at groups that we thought would have an expertise in certain fields and could provide us information um specifically for those fields that we think would contribute in a very positive way towards the master plan documentation. You can go to the
next slide, please. Um so to start off, we these are um the first of the seven different subcommittee um small stakeholder groups that we met with. We had members of the subcommittee meet with each group and ask a series of questions regarding the township and the
previous master plan's goals and objectives. Uh the intention of these meetings was to get feedback of each group on the topics they specialized in. Um for the fire department, they specifically said um a new fire station in North Village is something that would
be incredibly helpful. They have 60 members total and six of those are in the north area of the township. Um, so they have the ability to help if there was something in the north area of the township. However, having an additional firehouse would make it
easier for the members of the fire department to get there and have the equipment and the vehicles there to get to the site faster. Um, so um, in addition to that, there's the northern de development should include its own firehouse. Um, four-story
buildings need larger parking and setbacks is something that they've noticed on their calls. um residential calls, traffic calls, and specialized rescues. Those types of calls, they know how to show up to the site. They know what they need um when they get those
calls. However, the calls for commercial risks are harder to predict because they don't always know the type of fire, the materials that are on fire. Um and so being able to predict or understand the tools and the number of people that they need becomes challenging. Um they also
noted that the runoff is affecting local aquafers. Next is the police department. Um they have 34 officers whereas at this size of a municipality 45 would be recommended. Um so they're also experiencing rising cyber crime,
distracted driving crashes. Um the new development is adding pressure on resources. Obviously having 34 officers versus 45 is um significant. Route 15 signal timing and safety. I know that Route 15 is something that's come up. You'll see it kind of reiterated
throughout um as well as budget limits block needed hiring and the township provides underfunded dispatch for four municipalities. So, not just for the township of Sparta. Next is the Lake Mohawk Country Club. Um they spoke about reszoning Westshore and the plaza from
TCC back to the C1H. um skeptical of more development. They emphasize better sidewalks between the centers and possible shuttle service um safer intersections, stricter bridge and impervious coverage limits and stronger lake protections. Ongoing issues with
site plan review, parking and member space, and it was noted that about 40% of the town is within Lake Mohawk Country Club. Next is senior advisory, library, and parks and recreation. These were combined. Um, so some of these notes will be to to each of those
groups. So current space is limited and shared. There's aging vans. The parks and wreck is also underst staffed. The library and park users are competing for the limited parking spaces. Um, a new rec center they identified would be something that would be helpful for all
ages as well as uh senior housing. They noted that a lot of the programs are becoming crowded. Um and they cited Jefferson as a strong model for senior recreation. So the next slide we'll go to the final three um environmental commission. So
once again growth runoff and imperous coverage damage local water systems. They want stronger um lighting signage shoreline buffers and wind turbine ordinances. More walkable and bikable development. As you can see from the different stakeholders, you start kind of pulling the different trends and
identifying similar um interests and similar needs. Uh regional hazard planning, updated parking standards to cut runoff, climate ready, responsible development and cross municipal coordination along borders and the route 15 corridor. Next is the business
community. Um, we met with a number, not me personally, but members of the subcommittee met with a number of small business owners uh within the municipality and they have anxiety over overgrowth and high costs for new businesses. Small business approval is cumbersome. Parking and signage is
lacking. Ordinances are outdated and too complex. Clear intensity definitions and simpler approvals. Worries about large site developments spec es especially in the PDRM 2 and possible data centers. more collaboration with the municipality. Um expanded bikeways and
main street extension and then finally the board of ed. Um they lack adequate field space facilities are uh built out. Residential development is a significant operating cost for both instruction and transportation. Safety at the Lafayette
Road Sparta A 517 intersection. Um and then traffic has already forced changes to the school start times. And it's important to note that 80% of the teachers and staff live in Sparta. So that further contributes to the um traffic issues specifically during those
times of pickup and drop off. Um the recent development in North Village generated a large influx of students and enrollment growth will strain school facilities. So that was the kind of the synopsis of all of the small groups. Next, we met
with a larger group on October 29th. We had approximately 50 people when we met at the high school. We started off with a brief presentation just explaining the master plan, what the process would be for that evening. Um and then we broke off into small groups to have
discussions. Um these groups were randomized. There was no the intention of that was to try to break people up. So if you came with a friend or a spouse or a partner, the intention was for these people not to be placed together because we wanted to get um a good mix
of people. And we did luck out that there was a very diverse group of residents. I know in the group that I was in, we had residents who had been living in Sparta and their family had been Sparta for multiple generations and then we also had people who were newly
new to Sparta. So, I think having those diverse groups and people from different professional backgrounds really created a nice group of getting feedback and getting really interesting suggestions um that maybe were not contemplated previously. So, on to the next page,
we'll just go into the different groups. Like I said, we broke up into five groups with one subcommittee member and then an additional member of either my staff or subcommittee member taking notes. We were there just to listen. and each group had the same questions and
prompts. Um, and it was just to lead a conversation and see how the conversations naturally flowed. Um, as we kind of started going through that, we started seeing a lot of similarities. And then we also had some groups, like I said, make suggestions that we had not even thought of before. Janette and I
were actually in the same group. And we had there were some interesting conversations. Um, so group one, they con had traffic concerns, open space and tree preservation, upgrades to Main Street and Town Square Plaza, concerns about walkability and sidewalk conditions. They needed for amenities,
affordable and senior housing, mobility and accessibility, climate and pvious surfaces and drainage. The next group was uh worried about prohibiting heavy industry and warehouses, preserving water, wetlands, and highlands resources, new trails, accessible open
spaces and architectural standards, dedicated senior and recreation centers, affordable housing, traffic at key locations, dog parks and market spaces, tree ordinances, and climate resilience. Group three also had concerns about
infrastructure, open space plan and trails, storefront utilization and signage, commercial business attraction for tax base with affordable rents, sustainability, resilience and solar energy use, drought, flooding, and they reserve support for Airbnbs.
So the final two groups that we had were group four which uh White Deer Plaza should inspire architecture, community character, small-cale town homes, avoidance of large big box stores, biking, walking, trail safety and accessibilities, environmental
stewardship, opposition to warehouses, park amenities and aesthetic guidance. And then finally, group five, um, balancing open space with property rights, critique of litigation as a tool for development or preservation, industrial zone specific growth, housing
diversity and affordability, film industry as a local economic asset. This was actually the group I was in and I had never I had never thought of I do this in other municipalities and when one of our members suggested this I thought this was actually a really interesting idea and something that we
could potentially explore in the master plan or further because it's a really great way to um expose the town to an industry that maybe would look be looked at more favorably and per potentially some kind of tax ratable as well. um walkability and sustainable
infrastructure, traffic site fixes and wildlife habitat preservation. So then on the next page we kind of started making um connections between the stakeholders and in the large stakeholder group and the smaller uh groups and these were kind of the top
noted items. um open space and preservation. There was a lot of um information. There was a lot of concerns about walkability and connectivity. Um community amenities, housing diversity and affordability. Um looking at traffic and safety. I know
that that's a big one that came up across almost all groups. Environmental stewardship and climate resilience. Um that was another one. I think we are uniquely situated in a place where not every municipality in New Jersey has access to these trails. I know where
certainly where I live, I cannot just go walk to a trail within my municipality. So, um, you know, really looking into preserving these spaces. Um, next is architectural character and design standards. I found this one to be
something that I see echoed across both zoning board, planning board, as well as we've seen in most of our feedback from the community. Um, and then finally, economic development. So then finally, these were the items that were specifically noted. Um, roads
and traffic, Route 15 houses, corner road, Winona Parkway. Um, next is outdoors and character. The Lake Mohawk area was spoken about quite frequently, Sparta Mountain, Sussex County in general, and Main Street. And then finally, the commercial centers, Town
Center and Main Street, North Village and White Dear Plaza. Um, a lot of these spoke about having the walkability, having design standards, having signage, um, having wayfinding types of signage and ways to connect the different areas within the township.
So then finally we looked back at the survey results that we had previously presented and then we looked at the stakeholder meeting results and we started to find the synthesis between the two. So on the next slide you'll kind of see some of the top results from
the survey and then the top results from the stakeholder meeting. in bold is where we started um identifying the similarities between the two and started seeing that there were connections between all of the feedback that we were receiving and this is probably where we
would should be focusing our efforts in the master plan. The next page um goes back to one of our original slides from our survey results regarding the favorite things um around
Sparta. Many of these were reflected in our stakeholder meetings and it brings up kind of notable things like qualities that are important to Sparta residents. Rural, clean, safe, peaceful, quaint, small, tranquil, quiet. Um places like
Mohawk, White Deer Plaza, the library were all notable um and mentioned quite frequently. We often spoke about in our stakeholder meetings both the small and large the community um the quality of life the country feel the good schools the
neighborhood um the community family spaces and then finally outdoors green spaces nature country were kind of the words and things that we pulled from these responses. And then onto the next slide, we went back to the goals and objectives from
the original master plan and looking at the survey results once again. And we think that what was in the survey results is further um reflected in the stakeholder meetings that we held. So things like expand housing opportunities for existing and future township
residents was voted as not valid. Um I won't go through all of these. I'll just kind of go through the not valid ones because I think that that's most notable. So on the next slide as well, provide a range of housing types. Um housing was one of those items for all
ages, income levels consistent with fair share housing. So 50%ed responded not valid. We did find a little bit in our feedback from the stakeholders that there was interest in senior housing specifically and that potentially the focus on that housing
that is affordable should maybe be focused more towards the seniors and those living within the community. Um and then finally we have kind of our progress scant chart I think on the next slide which is just showing how we have reached the end of our public input and
now we are working on the actual document. A lot of it has been drafted and we will be looking into those sections and working on kind of taking all of this information and applying it to your master plan and into the goals
and objectives and the future plan for Sparta. So that is it. Um if you have any questions I am happy to assist you. >> Okay, we'll bring it up to the deis. Any members of the board have questions, comments on the information provided?
>> Got one, Lindsay. The uh yeah, >> on the one not valid was about the um for Yeah. Hang on. It's the second one of them. >> Yes. >> Um the affordable hair um fair share plan
housing element. I mean, doesn't the state kind of make that valid, you know, in asking us? So, this is a loaded question given the um state of affordable housing right now um in the state. Um I'm sure right now
uh Katherine, your affordable housing planner, is going through the process of settlement conferences um since your plan was challenged, which every plan was challenged. So, um not to think that your plan was not adequate. It most definitely was. Um so, a lot of that is
determined by your fair share plan and housing element. you will have a requirement of um of affordable housing and a lot of this is going to be regulated. It's going to be required to be U-Hack regulated which only permits a certain percentage to be for say seniors
and veteran housing would be 30% of your whole prospective need. So a lot of that will be uh part of your housing element and fair share plan. Yeah, I would just I would just add um Ernie that uh your instinct is correct
that the word not valid but it's uh candid the uh fair housing law and the plan that you will be have will address for a 10-year period. >> Yes. >> So uh it's it's different uh but the terminology not valid. I
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I think um I think it is valid. it is uh it is definitely something that is required right and I believe you are going through the process to make sure that you do have a certified plan. So um
but I think given the feedback we got there was preference towards making sure there was senior housing and supportive housing. >> Hi Lindsay. >> Hi Councilman. Um you just said the senior that senior and
veteran housing can be part of that obviously the affordable housing component. What is the percentages that you said and are those >> 30%. So uh hack >> is that together combined? >> Yes, it's senior supportive housing is 30%.
>> And veterans is another 30% or >> no that would be considered supportive housing. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Any other questions, comments from >> Yeah. Okay. Um I wish I could have been there that
night. I was working. >> No worries. >> And I don't get home till like 9:00. So, um, so I I looked through the slides earlier and, um, I just had some questions and I went kind of like slide by slide.
>> Sure. >> Uh, so um, under police department, uh, with the cyber crime, um, isn't that an FBI, uh, thing because >> because of IP addresses probably. I
can't speak on behalf of of how it's handled um my knowledge would be based uh solely on episodes of law and order knowledge but um based on that um I believe yes because of IP addresses many times it's not located within your
jurisdiction >> yeah you can Jenny was the um subcommittee member who was at who actually ran that sub that uh stakeholder meeting so she could >> the the import of that discussion was the fact that there are so many more
people coming in to report crimes and se segies included cyber the a skyrocketing amount of sky cyber related crimes that are reported to the police. So even if the investigation comes out of their hands,
the original discussion of the intake has to come through Sparta and they maintain jurisdiction over most of this. Even if they might work in partnership with other other um provide uh law enforcement agencies, they still
maintain um control over the investigation. And so it's a big time um time time crunch is something that came through in almost every category that we talked about is how much more time things take than they used to. Even
a domestic violence um issue may for example used to be one person a couple hours. Now it's a minimum two people and several days of investigation. So the idea was that it was a lot of time put pressure. >> Two officers now have to go out. That's
what they said. Yeah. >> Or domestic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is is there like why is that >> there's new requirements in terms of at attorney general's specifications about how they can work how they have to work?
>> Oh, okay. >> So, the attorney general propagates rules about how the police has to investigate certain types of crimes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Um so under Lake Mohawk Country Club uh someone or a shuttle was
mentioned shuttle service. >> Yes. Okay. Um would this be a free service? Um so that wasn't just suggesting that they think that a shuttle service would be beneficial. I don't think um anything
beyond that was was spoken about. >> Okay. Um, was the idea like floated that it would be a year round shuttle? It would be a seasonal shuttle and you would pay for it? >> No, I'm not sure. Would be
>> Your dues your dues are going to double. >> Would this only be a country club shuttle? >> I don't I don't know. They just >> I think I think Jenny's got >> Well, they were talking about having the opportunity. They were talking about interaction with the township as as a
whole and things that could provide more services um from between Lake Mohawk connectivity and walkability and the shuttle would be just another method of getting people to be connected to the different um town centers. There was no
indepth discussion about it. It was just an idea that they threw out there. That idea also came up under under parks and wreck and and with the senior advisory just because if if it ever came as fruition that that we did get a rec center that was multigenerational to being able to get everybody to and from
that depending upon where it was located. So yeah, so the idea kind of came up in in several different spaces, but master plan doesn't really determine like the the the nuts and bolts of it. It's just high. >> We we kind of dissuaded them from talking about things like that in detail
because that wasn't what we were there for. >> Okay. Um cuz my comments would be with the with like the feasibility because the master plan is supposed to balance needs, wants, you know, what what can we
actually do? Um and you know, we have the senior the senior shuttle. Um but uh okay. Um I just think that it would make a lot of sense for the master plan if we're going to talk about a shuttle in
the master plan grand scheme of things that it would be linked with like a bigger revenue generating plan. So that was >> I think they also mentioned a trolley type of a thing. So it was more along the lines of just a discussion about what connectivity would look like.
>> Yeah. encourage connectivity between the different town centers. >> Okay. Um because you know like Newport has a trolley and they also have like a much bigger re revenue generating plan that includes like a transportation hub
and parking so that you don't need your car when you go there. And they also have like the Gilded Age mansions which attract like a million people a year. And that's not an exaggeration. A million people go to Newport every year to just tour the Gilded Age mansions.
So, we don't really have something equivalent like that. So, um and you know the practicalities of the weather. Uh >> you mean we have a house tour at Lake Mohawk every May. >> Do you want one million people coming
through all all the houses? >> Um >> uh Okay. So, um, the parking at the country club also came up in the master plan. Um, and I just would like to note that that parking lot also has to
accommodate the nursery school and the tennis club. Um, so spaces are very limited and you know the back with the pay pay by phone parking, you know, that works sometimes, but it doesn't really
seem to be working. most of the time to you know like there there are times that you cannot get a parking space and that's deterring people from going downtown and supporting the businesses.
Um, so the senior advisory library and parks and recreation. Um, uh, have we thought about going with like a YMCA type thing? Cuz the YMCA right here in Sparta would give us
the the process. It's an already established process for like doing something like this. Did that come up at all? that that didn't come up because the the closest YMCA is is too far for for our needs. So when they talked about
a a multigenerational rec center, it wasn't just something that was um that was limited in in certain senses because so the shared space um between parks and wreck and the library. A lot of times
it's it's helpful for them to have that connectivity so that they're they're um involved in in what's happening with each other, but it also becomes very cumbersome when they need to schedule because that space is limited. So they
don't just need um space in terms of oh we want a pool or basketball courts or or what have you. They want comfortable space where people can go and sit and have a book club or people can go and and do a knitting um uh circle or or
certain other things that um allow like right now they have kitchen facilities where they have um uh shared cooking with with uh our seniors and our young people. So, you know, being capable of continuing to do that. A a typical YMCA
facility doesn't necessarily have all of um all of that facility. So there there were a lot of things that um that they were talking about in terms of um what they would like to see um in and connectivity. Right now what they have is
suitable because it's confined and they know that they can get everyone there effectively. But looking at how the master plan looks in terms of you know moving forward and and what our senior capacity can become um they they realize
the need for for you know a greater facility and they were talking about things that were multigenerational because they like the the connectivity between the senior community and our and our young people. Um they thought that there was a lot of a lot of benefit there. I agree. Um so yeah that that was
that was one of the things that that they were talking about in terms of uh rec center overall. >> Okay. um under environmental commission uh trees um shade trees uh you know having more shade trees like
if we want to make Sparta more walkable sidewalks you know need trees and they also there's also an opportunity to have like distinct smaller places for people to come together was maybe going after
becoming a Tree City USA was that like mentioned Um, so I think this was more the way these I mean Rob do you were you in this >> uh well I was just going to say for yeah for environmental uh there's been
conversation about tree ordinance. >> Um I don't think we're there yet. We're we're working on that. I think it one was written and then it was subject to a revision and so I haven't heard where we are with that but yeah like where I'm
from we had a tree warden we had you know a lot more control over the trees um so I think that would be kind of served within the environmental commission >> and I think also something that was spoken about a lot and we've spoken about here as well is like going back to
the design standards as well we could also you know that also interrelates with like streetscape standards. Mhm. >> So you would have you x your you you know sidewalk needs to be this wide but then you also have x amount of feet because you have to have planters or trees or you have and you have to have certain types of street furniture and I
think that's another way and that's something in the master plan that I think we are definitely going to focus on as well because it has been brought up so many times by the stakeholders by the boards but creating design standards and standards within the township to create not only connectivity but
creating an overall design so that everything has continuity. >> But that would be that would be an issue too with White Tear Plaza. I mean, I believe those trees were removed because the roots were upending the the sidewalk. >> The sidewalks. Yeah.
>> So, um >> what trees you select that have better root systems. >> So, I would say with within environmental kind of work work on the design standards for that and figure out fast growing native. Some towns um have
trade uh tree shade commissions >> and that would be something uh for us to consider uh and encourage in a master plan I think. >> Absolutely. Yeah. The town I used to live in had one and when they were planting trees there was like three
different trees you could choose from. You could say I want this tree, this tree or this tree or if you didn't respond back you just got a tree and there you said keep it alive and that was that was you were tasked with keeping it alive. Also just with um with environmental um
that group was very very outspoken and there must have been 20 25 different points that they made. So this is just a very brief summary and and none of this is all-encompassing yet. It's just some of the general comments that were made by the various groups.
And just to clarify, I don't believe environmental wanted stronger lighting, but just >> I think it wants stronger ordinance. >> They wanted stronger ordinances related to lighting, signage, shoreline buffers, and winter. >> In case it wasn't clear,
>> Rob Otto said he wanted 10,000 Kelvin. >> Oh, no. >> LED white. >> Yeah. um about the so under board of ed uh the influx of kids into the schools that
came from North Village. Do we have an approximate number of of what that influx was? >> Um I don't have it but I know they've done studies >> 90. They said the first summer, so by
July after the first group of people started moving into North Village, they had 90 new students that they were not anticipating. So consider that 90 is three full classrooms of students. But more importantly, onethird of those students, according to the
superintendent, needed IEPs. So they needed enhanced services, which is a huge expense. And they also had to add two bus routes. So the way Sparta buses work, Sparta schools work is they st
they stack their buses to some degree. So you might have a pickup for the high school and then they go back and they pick up for Mohawk. Say I'm making that up, but it's they stack them like that. They had to add two more routes to accommodate the students at North
Village. So that's quite an expense that they did not anticipate when they fixed their budget in April. Um, >> it should also be noted, I'm sorry, on this point that the developer just for planning board purposes that the
developer said that they approximated that there would be 12 students when they got their approval. So here we are >> nine times >> 8x times uh >> eight yeah about eight seven and a half
eight times um greater amount of students and it's good to remember that each student cost the township of Sparta $325,000 to educate over their >> 13 year
>> that's without the IEP right that's without the And that's without a school, >> right? >> Without capex. >> Um Oh. Uh can I just backtrack to senior
um recreational senior opportun recreational opportunities for seniors? It was mentioned that Jefferson was cited as a strong model. >> Anything specifically about Jefferson? I believe it was their programming. I
don't know who was there, but I would Jenny. No, that that to me. >> Um, yeah, but it's probably most likely their programming that they have in the space. >> Yeah, that it was it was related to facilities and it was related to to um accessibility.
>> Okay. Um I I would just like to point out that Jefferson gets a lot of tax revenues from Lake Hapakong being public. There are marinas, there are restaurants
dotted all around uh Lake Mo uh Lake Hapakong. Uh there's they make money from fishing, kaying, boat launches.
Um there's the Lake Hakong Foundation. I mean, they have a lot of money to They also have Camp Jefferson, which is 96 acres, which sounds amazing. I want to go to Camp Jefferson. Um, which they
generate money from for a kids day camp during the summer. Uh, and they have amazing amenities. A 40ft climbing wall, a 250 foot zipline, an amphitheater, an archery range, basketball ropes course, uh, a community lodge and kitchen.
There's your rec center. um a movie theater, uh a picnic pavilion, a recreation hall. Um and and you know, so when when we say that we
want more amenities around town, um like like what like what are we talking about and how do we connect those things together in a cohesive plan?
So I think for example in your goals and objectives right you would say um new rec center right and then your objectives would be looking into funding grant funding looking into spaces that could be acquired and you would have it
would be an outline of how to get there but it's not doing it within the plan. So the plan is giving you the outline of ideas of processes, but it's not saying you have to do it. It's not a regulatory document. It's a blueprint of how to get
your regulatory document to your goals. Um, do you happen to have like an age breakdown of the attendees at the focus groups? because you said that it was like >> No, we didn't write down people's ages.
>> Oh, I mean just basic demographics. >> Um I don't have any of the demographic information. >> Okay. Um it just also I mean parking parking parking everywhere pretty much on every
slide it said that parking is a big problem. Parking at the library is a problem. Parking at the park is a problem because it competes with the library. Parking in White Deer Plaza is a problem. Parking at the Country Club parking lot is a problem. So, parking
keep keeps coming up as a big problem that it seems like we really need to solve before >> shuttles. Shuttles and walkability. >> Bike lanes. >> Uh lanes. Well, you know, um, homes that
are in walkable neighborhoods, and by walkable, I also include bikes in that, >> uh, they sell for a premium, and Janette, correct me if I'm wrong, but they go for a premium of about 10 to 15%. So, you know, making Sparta walkable and
bike friendly is would be a good thing. Um but you also have to provide you know parking somewhere and you know where where where is that like where where is
the parking where how are we going to get >> that's something that the circulation element is is kind of >> we're doing a circulation element. So this is just just this is all the feedback we're just presenting the information that we gathered. We don't have plans in place of how we are going to address all of this but these are
just showing the notable things that came up during our various stakeholder meetings and kind of the as you saw there's trends and things that came up more often than others and that kind of is how you start taking the direction of what your goals of your master plan will be. So parking like you said came up in
almost every single slide. So parking obviously will be there will be some kind of notable piece regarding parking and the ways to look into the objectives of achieving parking and achieving enough parking >> will be noted in the objectives and then
the objectives will be utilized in a way by the governing body to eventually either create ordinances or create a plan of action to achieve those goals. >> Yeah. Um because I would also like to mention that the film industry attracting the film industry, they need
a lot of parking because they bring in lifts and they bring in heavy equipment and they bring in trailers and you know even the smallest movie >> Yeah. is like a lot of they need a lot of physical space to park all of their I
think that note that that piece was um there is in New Jersey you can become a a municipality that is approved for filming and I think that was one of the items as well as looking into adaptive reuse of some of these older industrial
spaces as well for soundstages or things like that. So the governing body already uh created a like a film ready film commission. So >> So then you can also um work with the state on being on a list of those municipalities that are
>> right. I'm I'm just thinking that the practicality of it, like once they look at Sparta, you know, okay, they get the permit, but then where the rubber meets the road, like if they want to shoot downtown, a downtown scene, logistically,
where where does everything go? So, I grew up in New York City and if there was a movie being shot, you know, if it was like a small area of like one block that has like a walking scene of some actors, like they got permits to shut
down that entire road. >> Walkable. >> What? >> Then it's walkable. >> We'll just all be extras in the movie. And it was definitely Law and Order episodes getting filmed >> like White Tear Plaza. It's like we're trying to shut this down to have like
local businesses whatever. And yeah, I mean I think you you have like a street festival then we've had we we've had films here before a couple actually some pretty big films and a lot of them what I know the one when I was in the police department I worked on um they filmed
they filmed their scenes at like midnight till 4 in the morning. One was on Route 94 where they had they got permits to periodically shut down Route 94 to to film, you know. Um and and that's so a lot of stuff they do in
off hours. >> Yeah. >> Um they also don't necessarily not every not all assets are located here, you know. They they could utilize other towns as well for >> Oh, sure. Sure. >> parking areas and things which which they did in that case, you know. So, >> do you remember the name of the movie or
anything? >> Yeah, it was In and Out. >> In and Out. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes it's just not even with the actors. It's just exterior shots of a home or a business, things like that as well. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. They shoot in houses. They've shut >> Yeah. And then they do the rest on a
sound stage. >> Just also want to point out these are concerns that residents and businesses had as well as wish lists, >> but it's not the end all be all and um we still going on to do various elements. We still have the land use
element to look at. We have population trends to look at. We have circulation element. We have a climate change element. So all of those will help to um further develop the goals that will become part of the master plan.
So this is just one piece. >> Thank you. Any other questions, comments? >> Okay. I >> absolutely >> apologize that that I came late. I had a a power outage in my house tonight and soon as the lights came on, I flew got
jumped my car and got here tonight. In fact, I think I forgot to say goodbye to my wife. So, >> oh no, >> I've been watching and and appreciate that the the comments and the thoughts for the meeting. Um, in regard to the master plan, um, lot of lot of data, lot
of data to crunch through and figure out what to do with, but I think that's to me this is where the rubber meets the road is it's really going to be what are the goals and objectives? what are the elements? >> Are we looking at all the elements? Um I just want to make sure that the schedules that we're looking at includes
all that and I'm sure it does. >> Um but but I think that's you know the next step is probably to me um the goals injected is the most critical part of what we're what this team is going to do. So you know I wish everybody a lot of luck. >> Thanks.
>> Just thank you for putting all of this together. Appreciate it. >> Yeah. Thank you. And thank you. The subcommittee was incredibly helpful in getting this PowerPoint together and making sure everything that was noted um was noted that needed to be noted and things were clarified and made sure
nobody was mistaken or misinformation was put on there. So, I appreciate the subcommittee for their efforts as well. >> I I think what I took from it was that there's a pretty good consensus on a direction. >> Yes. I think >> that's >> I think most importantly, yeah, we saw
across the board there are clear items that should be addressed. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> Okay. Well, that having been said, um since we're moving into updates, I I do want to say thank you, personal thank
you to the subcommittee um for the master plan for all of your hard work, all of your effort, all of your everything. Um, I I put down on the bottom of every single one of my emails, thank you for what you are doing and what you continue to do. And I I that is
a deep and heartfelt sentiment. Um, because I know what it means to to be a part of this. I know what it means to log on to something and commit to something for two plus years. And uh, your dedication and your hard work is is
appreciated. and I'm sure um it's not going to go unnoticed when the final document comes through and the town is the better for it. So, thank you again. Um so, I will move that to since I'm starting subcommittee. Um let's move to >> Before we do that, I just I had
something I wanted to offer. Um, and I'm not sure where else it fits, I guess, other than other board business, but since it's the the last meeting of the year in December, I just wanted to kind of review some of the highlights that we went through um for this year. So, if you'll indulge me, I just I wrote some
things down. Um, I just want to say thank you to all of my fellow board members for their diligent work in reviewing a variety of development applications this past year, ranging from subdivisions to warehouses to plans for our local schools. As a whole, we persevered through a very unconventional
year and it was rough going at times. As we look toward the future, it is important to reflect on the past and it is also customary to provide a recap of accomplishments as well as recommendations for the upcoming year. Since I had the honor of serving as chair for eight months, I would like to
provide a summary from January through August. January and February turned out to be extremely busy months, and we were successful in overcoming several rather unexpected challenges. Through no fault of our own, an internal conflict resulted in resignations from our
attorney, Steve Warner, as well as our conflict attorney, Amanda Wolf, before they even started. Fortunately, Richer stepped up to the plate and offered to serve as our conflict attorney while we continue to search for permanent counsel. Mr. continues to serve as our
planning board counsel representing us in the Diamond Ship federal lawsuit. By March, we settled into the beginning of a regular routine with the hiring of our excellent and wellrespected professionals Ken Porro and Lindseay Knight. Their respective firms Brock Iller and Neglia Group are recognized
throughout the state for their wide breath of knowledge and we are so fortunate to have them as part of our team. I also wish to recognize our engineer Dave Simmons for his many uh years of valued service to this board. Thank you all. In addition to our professionals, I would like to commend
Rob Otto for serving as chair of the minor site plan subcommittee as this is no easy task. I also want to recognize the other members who served on the subcommittee during the year. Ron Day, Rob Leakley, Brian Zurman, and Bureet Bogler. Right from the start, we began
to examine ways to streamline the process and make it more efficient for our business community. In that vein, we completed a major redesign of the application packet. We also focused on making it easier to navigate the multiple and complex science standards
by preparing a cohesive summary by zone of the required standards and this is now included with the application packets. It was also shared with all of the members of this planning board. This was an extremely time-intensive project and I commend all who participated in
the effort to improve the process for the business community. Efficiency of operations should be the cornerstone of any business including that of government. As we encountered issues with procedures and processes, we brought them to the attention of the planning board so that the
recommendations could be passed along to the town manager and council. This included the following recommendations. In May, the planning board adopted a formal resolution to include a new certificate of zoning to be signed off by the zoning officer in order to ensure
that applications were complete, permitted in the zone, and did not require a variance. This would help the subcommittee from having to return incomplete and unlicable applications, thus saving significant processing time. This was forwarded to the proper
individuals, but unfortunately, no response was ever generated. In July, the planning board voted to approve a recommendation to town council that fitness centers be added as a permitted use in the TCC zone. This is still pending. Also, in July, we voted to
recommend that town council allow them allow the minor site plan subcommittee to draft suggested revisions to the design standards that were responsible for confusing applicants and staff, which in turn resulted in delays or denials of minor site plan applications.
Mr. Porro forwarded this letter to the appropriate parties and Mr. Scott, our council representative, initiated a motion at council meetings to support these efforts. However, the motion did not pass. I suggest that this as well as the other outstanding topics be
revisited in 2026. Further suggestions to improve the process which are in fact supported by members of the business community include an option for applicants to agree to provide escrow in the event event that the minor site plan subcommittee requires the support of
professionals to help render a decision. The ability to not appear before the full planning board in these instances is both cost-effective and time effective. I strongly urge the board and town council to address this proposal in 2026.
Additional highlights from January through August include a push to bring minutes into compliance and I acknowledge and thank our 2024 chair Ron Day for pursuing this endeavor. A master plan consistency review pertaining to cannabis establishments in the town. In
a nineto zero vote, the board determined that it was not consistent with the master plan and forwarded 10 recommendations to town council. We also conducted master plan consistency reviews for the PCEED and PDRM2 ordinance revisions.
In July, I prepared and presented a draft of planning board bylaws for consideration over the summer months with a discussion that was supposed to take place in December. In January, we finalized the open space and recreation plan that was carried over from 2024. This report is now
included as an element in our master plan. In April, the results of the master plan community survey were shared with the planning board and posted on the township website. In the ensuing months, members of the subcommittee met with the mix of focus groups, and these results were shared with you this
evening. In June, the planning board approved Sparta's housing element fair share plan. This too became a major element of our master plan. This was an arduous task and Steve Warner and Katherine Sarmmed deserve recognition for their tireless efforts to bring this to f fruition. Finally, I want to thank
members of the public who provide valuable input into an open process and extend gratitude to our outgoing board members. Wish everyone here and at home a merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah or similar holiday greeting to whatever you celebrate and I look forward to a new
year building on existing relationships and forging new relationships that unite us in the spirit of our community, our Sparta. Thank you. So, you did a lot. Pat yourselves on the back. That was the eight months. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Okay, moving forward with updates and since Joan actually segueed us into minor site plan subcommittee, >> Rob. >> Oh, I wrote something too. Um, doesn't start in 1845, though. So, uh, come on.
>> Your eyes open. >> Oh my. >> Can you No, you can close your eyes. Um, so I also want to thank my f fellow volunteers on the minor site plan subcommittee, Joan Ferman, Ron Day, Robert Blekeley, Brian Zimmerman, and Burget Bogler. I also want to recognize
the efforts of the staff, the planning and zoning office, Raia Franklin, Emily King, and Dory Fox, as well as the support from the manager's office in Michelle Landau, and manager Jim Zep. Finally, I want to thank our planning board professionals for their expertise in legal, Ken Porro, engineering, Dave
Simmons, and planning, Lindseay Knight. So, uh, what is the minor site plan subcommittee? The power of the MSPS flows from the planning board under municipal land use law in New Jersey. I'm not going to read the reference. It's 18-4.2C if anyone wants to look it up. But the
last line, the minor site plan subcommittee shall not have authority to review or act upon applications for minor site plan plans that include any variances is notable. So does every township in New Jersey have a minor site
plan subcommittee MSPS? No. New Jerseyy's 7,354.2 two square miles is split into 571 minor civil divisions or county subdivisions of which 242 are townships, 324
incorporated places and the remaining five or water areas. Um, of the official count of 564 municipalities which includes burrows, townships, cities, towns, villages, only some of these have a minor site plan subcommittee.
Why does Sparta have a minor site plan subcommittee? Sparta may have a reputation for being difficult in terms of planning and zoning, but I think that interpretation may be misunderstood. The Sparta of a century ago, it's just a century. It's not 1845. Uh was mostly
agrarian with some tourism. It was carefully developed beginning around 1927. We just heard how White Tier Plaza was kind of a reference for a lot of people and that was that was kind of it. Um, in 1927, developers took that, they
refined this model over decades that followed the developers of Lake Mohawk, over 40% of the population of Sparta today, and they worked closely with the town with Sparta. Eventually, the township eventually took over and adopted a modern building code in the
1950s. It was proposed at the time to create five zones, agricultural, commercial, industrial, residential one, and residential two, but also noted, and I think it's important, that quote, "Zoning should remain flexible to allow
for changes." I think that many in the residential community chose Sparta for its thoughtful development, and I think the business community ultimately recognizes the value in this measured approach. However, one of the goals of planning supported by town council as a governing body will be to balance
responsible development while remaining flexible to allow for changes in encouraging and supporting new and existing businesses. So, in case anyone doesn't know because there's confusion, the current process, I just want to step people through it as
I understand it. So for applications requiring variances, waiverss, conditional uses, the applicant will have to be heard by the full planning board or zoning board of adjustment. However, for applications which do not require variance, waiver or conditional uses, the minor site plan subcommittee
may sidestep this sometimes cumbersome process and make a determination on the application. Despite all many comments to the contrary, this route is beneficial to the business community of Sparta Township in cost savings and time
savings as applicants can present their project with no attorney and without waiting for scheduling availability with the full planning board. If a determination by MSPS is unfavorable, the MSPS does endeavor to provide next steps to the applicant. These might
allow the application to be resubmitted to the MSPS or it may identify the need for full planning board or zoning board of adjustment review. Why is minor site plan subcommittee so hard? So, I'll bring you back to MSPS cannot grant
waiverss or that pesky bit um the minor site plan subcommittee shall h shall not have authority to review or act upon applications for minor site plans that include any variances. Um the minor site plan subcommittee is comprised of three to four three to four
volunteers that also serve on the planning board. You notice three to four is important not more than four. So it's not a quorum of the planning board. The goals of the minor site plan remain the same as the planning board where the determinations made by those serving may not be arbitrary nor capriccious. As a
quasi judicial body, these determinations are presumed legally correct according to the MLUL. In order to protect the township from legal challenges, each application is considered with great care and consideration. The 2025 process is what I want to step
you through. And this is just how how I ran it in 2025. The introduction, the applicant gathers their application materials, presents it to the planning and zoning office. Once accepted, that office forwards these materials to the minor site plan subcommittee and we
begin individually with a review of the local code along with applying any special local knowledge which may relate to the proposed project interpretation. At this point, members of subcommittee may feel the need to further consult the planning board professionals legal
engineering planning to resolve any questions or concerns. They may also elicit this this might also elicit clarifying questions to be submitted to the applicant. Then determination. Once the application is complete and fully understood, members of the minor site
plan subcommittee provide their individual analyses. We have a discussion and then we cast our votes immediately prior to the planning regular planning board meetings which we just did from 6:00 to 7:00. Following the vote, I try to assemble the determination within 24 hours as
follows. I restate the project scope. I list the relevant sections of the code which may apply to the project and I present the determination along with any conditions or requests from minor site plan. So my summary is my takeaway from 2025 is that every application, every
site is different and challenging. The code is clearly not perfect. Um some might say it's not artfully drawn. Uh while labels from 40 years ago may not easily fit those of today, balancing intensity of of changing uses with local
conditions should remain the goal, this year. For those of us who didn't know the local code and MLUL, we got an opportunity to learn it. We had the opportunity to meet with business owners and hear directly their frustrations and difficulties and try to arrive at a mutually agreeable balanced
determination that approached conformity. In a year of reviewing over 40 applications for MSPS, I've determined numerous inconsistencies within the code and numerous opportunities to streamline and improve the process. And I still believe that
this can be done in advance of the master plan rewrite. As a result of these reviews, we made recommendations to the governing body to update the local code for clarity, consistency, and to help approach conformity to the needs and wants of the community. And I think clear and consistent processes are the
answer. And also happy holidays. Thank you. >> That's my update. >> Okay. Um so I have uh a question actually. So in in years previous um there's been uh like a a kind of a
summary of how progress went for for the year. Um, do you have any information in terms of how many applications you went through? How many? You know, >> about 40. >> 48. >> Yeah, we just did four. Well, >> just finished and we had some that
carried over from 2024. So, I just counted them. >> Thanks. >> Um, what else? >> I mean, out out of that, you know, I mean, what were the approvals? What were the referrals? What were, you know, were they >> I mean, they're they're in our minutes.
So, so what we've done now and in uh as a contrast to previous years is we have full minutes um with a pretty good record of the votes and um approvals or denials. Um so I think we can refer to
that record. I don't know that it would be appropriate to go into 48 different determinations uh and lay that all out, but um I can put something together if if that's >> um um because Ron, similar to what you
did and what and what Bill Enright did in in previous years for for the summary. I mean, do you understand what I'm asking for? >> I know and >> I know what you're asking for. Ron Ron had referenced an annual report and I'm willing to provide that not uh verbally
at this time because we just had a meeting as I mentioned uh an hour prior to this meeting. So um it wouldn't be for for this meeting. It would be following um prior to the end
of the year if that's the desire. What are what are the thoughts of the board in terms of recap for year end? >> Sounds like a great summary that we can go over in January. >> I think that certainly sounds
reasonable. I'm not sure if we did it the year end or or the first meeting of the year, but uh >> I think to your point I think it's needed and I think it's helpful. >> Um the only thing I just want to Rob, I don't know if you meant to say this or not, but >> y I just want to make sure that the
people on the previous min subcommittee, you know, they they did the minutes as well. Um, it wasn't that it wasn't done. I thought I heard you say that and I don't think that's what you intend to say. >> I didn't I didn't intend to say that. We we modified the format of the minutes per your request, which I think was a
good modification. It went into quite a bit more detail than I believe they were done in the past. So, as I said, I mean, just an hour prior to this meeting, we looked at four more. I got to write up several more determinations in the next 24 hours.
>> A few weeks left. >> Well, exactly. So, I have a few weeks left. So, I'd rather not rush it and get like the full picture of it. >> Absolutely fair. >> So, I believe if we were to consult the recording, Ron asked me uh if there would be an annual report, and there will be. I know that seemed long and
like an annual report. That's not the that's not the annual report. That was just kind of a summary um in much the same vein as planning board provided for you know where we are, how we did things, what our process was, lessons
learned um as far as annual report that would be something else entirely. >> Okay. >> And I was on the 2024 one, you know, with Ron and um Christine, Bill Enright. Um, and I think the major change that we
just did recently is we ended up going back in the description status and putting in the votes of all of the people because we changed throughout the year. So, it was important. Ron was on it for a while and then he was off. Rob Lee was on it for a while, then he was off. Burga joined us a little later. So,
it was important to reflect that. So, you know, I think that's probably the major change that we have in here. And also um you know whether it was referred to planning board or zoning board or or you know we asked applicants to come back a second time and say you know we
need you to update this and in most cases it was approved. >> Yeah. >> So you know I don't think you know maybe one or two denials out of this whole thing. >> No we eventually got there and that was that was kind of the point and laying the groundwork now >> so that when you look at this you see
that there was a process. the process is iterative and it's we can't we can't grant waiverss uh we can't approve this with this pathway but let's try to let's try to approach conformity and we would present that to
the applicants it's something again we have four plus pending um and so there's there's lessons learned in that and so we'll capture that um but yeah we didn't I don't think you guys had that level of
detail as far as even not just the determination, but there was differences in who referred to what body if a decision couldn't be made. >> Rob, if I could just say one one more thing, um I believe the minutes that are
going out that were approved earlier tonight, um we'll have I think there was July and August there were the minutes will be attached to those. Um and and you said something that I I think it's really important to emphasize on and that's that the minor site plan
subcommittee cannot approve anything that has a variance or or design waiver. And I know there's been a lot of frustration where folks have looked at um some of the applications that we've referred to the full planning board some maybe to the zoning board but if you
look at each one of those they all had a a variance or a waiver. So, so the minor site plan subcommittee had no power and they had an obligation to refer it. So, I think that's an important emphasis that when people get frustrated, you know, you look at say, "Hey, that makes sense. That's the right thing." Yeah.
But it had had a waiver or had a variance. So, by by our ordinances, they're required to refer. >> Well, and yeah, and it's also we're trying to do right by the town, by the residents of this town to avoid
litigation. It's it's the by referring to the code as written uh and basing our determination on that I think it's the the more prudent decision. So that's I just want to share why we were there because yes in the
past maybe events have brought uh further considerations um to the forefront. So I think it's prudent for us to just be aware of
potential for litigation, I guess. >> All right. Uh let us move forward with uh updates from town council. Councilman Scott. >> Well, thank you. Um, we had our last meeting of the year uh a
week ago and at that meeting we discussed uh we we tabled discussion of the revision for the veterans exemption in town that was tabled. Um we and we also
repealed the ordinances 257, 258, 259 regarding the sale of cannabis in Sparta. Um we we should uh I personally need to
stay vigilant. Um the uh the council will be reviewing it in in April again. Um and and members of the members of the town council have indicated that they will be revisiting the trying to bring
the cannabis back in April. Um apparently they think that the 6535 vote will shift by April. Um okay so not since the Charlie Kirk flag incident has Sparta received the national attention
that it received just today. Um, I want to give a shout out to Sparta policeman Michael Pune who uh conducted a water rescue today of a dog from Lake Mohawk. Um, this is using Icewater rescue gear
that was secured through a grant by the police department. Uh, we have made it on NJ13. We made it on the national CBS Evening News and we also made it on WABC Eyewitness News. So, it's a good shout
out to the Sparta Police Department for their good work and uh and I guess we have a happy dog owner in town now >> to patrolman pun. >> Controlman Pune. Did I say that? >> I don't remember. So, I just wanted to
add it. >> And >> update from the Environmental Commission. >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, we uh touched upon several things that I'll go over just briefly. Um, we did have uh one of our fabulous presentations
um for the public to educate them um on the Sparta area and all of the services that are available relating to the environment. And this was from this gentleman Dylan Medici is from the New Jersey Highlands Coalition
um which pre is a nonprofit and preceded the Highlands Council. and he gave us an an overview of our our beautiful area. and um and also mention that the um
their mission uh is to uphold the 2004 um Highlands regional master plan which provides uh 70% of the state's water and Sparta as you
know um about 40% of Sparta's surface area is is in the is in the preservation area. So, um this was a a great overview of the Highlands, why it's so precious and
we need to protect it. um presumably in our master plan uh development also um I would think and um and uh we had several questions relating to why is doesn't the planning area
conform and he made it clear that that's really in the realm of the Highlands Council to um really um discuss with them because they're the governmental arm um
of the Highlands regional master plan. So that was great. That ended I think we had about five different presentations um everything from recycling um to what a watershed ambassador uh
does um and deer and and everything else um that we've hosted this this year. we would like to see them better attended but we do get a lot of um people looking uh at the YouTube a uh so we're going to
continue doing this next year also there was um a discussion of um the um the Earth Day event that we're planning and we hope to um combine this with the
Lake Mohawk Association um in April um around the 22nd is Earth Day and the 25th is Saturday and perhaps there was some discussion about a cleanup uh being hosted by Lake Mohawk
in the morning and then we would have on the front lawn here um a variety of exhibits um for the community um to engage in. So that's in planning. Um
the other thing was um I took up quite a bit of our time with um our salt watch winter salt watch program. Um we have been active in monitoring several sites throughout our five watersheds uh within
uh within our our large uh township. And um what we have been discovering is is that there seems to be um in many not all but many locations there seems to be um an increase in the concentration of
salt pollution uh in our groundwater and as well as our surface water at times. So, we're keeping track of this in these locations and we're inviting members of the public to um help us monitor these
sites. We had for our snapshot, our groundwater snapshot in fall, we monitored 23 sites throughout um throughout the whole township. Most of these were, of course, in the I think about half of them were in the Wallill
uh watershed, but we had one in the Pequest monitor just off the charts in terms of salt salt concentration. This is out 517. And then we had one over um towards the Muskanet Kong watershed um
by Lake um was it Lake Senica? And then we have another site over by Sparta Lake also. in the POIC wershed and then uh we have four sites that we do uh for the pollen skill.
Um so we're keeping an eye on this and the purpose of course is to not not to really uh get in a situation where we have um well damage. Um there's a lot we can do uh by following best management practices
uh at this point in time but um we need to um we need to gather data I think to show that there is a trend in this direction um before any type of significant policy uh at the local level um you know could
actually try to be implemented perhaps with salt contractors perhaps with our own salting um But there are many people, many organizations throughout the state that are compiling data and um so we now are
actually have a body of statewide data that could lead to u more broader state recommendations you know in the future. But our water, I would argue, is, you know, one of our most precious resources as we all know. And we do not want to be
victims, you know, of um contamination and then have to spend billions at this point, dollars of trying to to clean clean our water, you know, the So, um so that's the purpose of that
program. Then we're going to um uh I think we're developing a registration process for any green team volunteers, people who would like to um help take care of their favorite creek, pond, um you know, water body by doing some
testing of of the water and they can register to do that. We'd love to have them on board. Thank you, >> Christine. I think the um statistics you provided are relevant in many ways. It's you're measuring the salt that is going
into the lakes and the rivers etc. But it's just another indicator of everything else that is going in along with the salt. All of the runoff with the gravel and the leaves and the oils and everything else that is on the roads
all going in along with that salt. So if those numbers are going up, I'm assuming that there might be some correlation. >> That's that's out of my realm of expertise. But we know that whatever's put down in the road doesn't stay on the
road. It's an impervious surface, you know, and that's why we try to limit it, you know, when we hear these applications because we know that >> a lot of these sub substances um well, all of them go into the soil. they infiltrate into the groundwater and
that's that's where we you know that's what sustains us. So um I think that um I think that salt because of its very na mineral nature um is there is a test for
that that is very simple and it is very accessible and easy to do. It's not expensive to do um relatively whereas some of the other compounds that we might be looking to get a measure of
through time may involve more laboratory type of uh tests that are required. So I think this is a good starting place um for us wi with the salt it's it's more practical. >> Thank you all for your efforts. Yeah.
>> And I want to touch on you said that water is important for us. >> That's very important. >> But well, but not just Spartans, right? So the that statistic that 70% of New Jersey residents derive some or all of
their drinking water from the Highlands, right? >> That is correct. >> So I just think that's pretty exceptional and notable. >> It it it really has been. And uh not only that, you know, that really um that really gives us a um a responsibility
here in Sparta because what we're doing is is um we're sending water downstream to into the Payic. We're sending water into the m the Musky Muskanetkong that goes into
the Delaware. We're sending our water um you know up through the wall into the Hudson River out the pollen skill into the Delaware and we don't want to be spending sending dirty contaminated water okay downstream to our neighbors.
So I I feel that this is a very important responsibility we have uh um regionally um that we need to try our best you know to to um uphold the water quality
standards that are given to us by um NJ and the EPA. Um, that's the that's the least we can do. And I would expect that from somebody living upstream of me. >> Thank you. Very welcome.
Okay. So, next on our agenda, we have a resolution. Resolution 2025-24 PB number 25-737 Sparta Holdings LLC 11 and 13 Aaron Way block 16001
lots 16 and 17 in the ED zone preliminary site plan. >> Yes. Uh thank you Celeste. Uh thank you also for the comments that were given back. I do have a couple of tweaks. Uh and it's interesting in the minor site
plan I was talking to Rob Otto when he was looking at some of historic uh resolutions used to be one page two pages and now they've grown just because of the complexity and requirements we have and this resolution does reflect the statutory requirements. Uh I also
want to thank David Gray who's the attorney on the other side. A lot of times I send the resolution to the applicant's attorney with no comments. Mr. grade did give me uh some comments just uh real quickly that uh and the on
page two where it talks about uh Dystra he asked that we just put the word Owen before him to make it clear Owen Distra and also that he is a PE uh he asked me to take out the pls the uh surveyor because he was only testifying in his
capacity as an engineer so that's minor uh if we go now page four which are the key uh conditions and the I have a couple more tweaks but we can go through it by way of number one strict compliance with the plans number two we
only gave preliminary site plan approval and then number three uh the compliance would be we're now on page five uh with the engineers report and the planners report number four talked about the Sparta fire department had some uh
references in their memo as to possible additional fire code improvements. Number five, and Ron Day, thank you. On Sparta, Mayor and Council would be getting a snow removal easement, a water main easement, and a storm maintenance
plan. And uh that would be subject to I do have the township engineer and township attorney because those are municipal but uh I'm sure if they need the help of the uh the board engineer and board attorney we would do that. Also Ron uh had given me and I apologize
I thought I put it in but I need to put it in that there's discussion of a rail plan. So that uh since this warehouse was adjacent to a rail, there would be a rail logistics plan as required by New Jersey statute 18 colon 4-29K
and that could come along with the final site plan. So what I'm going to do is uh add in with number five that uh rail plan. So we have the addition of Owen Dystra and we have the addition of the rail plan that I'll put in number five.
If we keep going, number six, no outdoor storage. Number seven, it's contemplated a single tenant user. Uh number eight, and uh uh begat, thank you on uh her comment to me. Uh I had approval as a
maximum number of 40 employees. I did not get a chance to check uh the YouTube, but be good, I think you had some notes that it might have been a little more. I I had written that it was 63, but I could be wrong. >> What I what I would suggest is I'll just
check uh the YouTube uh or the uh and whatever it is, whatever that testimony is, whether it's 40 or 63, I will put that in there unless someone has their notes are more specific. Uh but again, just to move things along, uh well, I'll
verify that. Number nine, no rooftop uh equipment and or or any rooftop equipment must be screened with a parapit uh uh to satisfy the board engineer. Number 10, this is an interesting one. Number 10, if you recall, there was originally an issue as
to a possible height variance and a parking variance. The applicant came in, cleaned up their plan that did not show any variance or uh waiver. So, we would address that by way of the final site plan. So here the site uh ultimate parking layout would have be addressed
at the time of the site application for final site plan approval. Uh the preliminary site plan approval herein does not grant any parking variances a waiver. The board acknowledges possible banking of parking may be feasible based on the ultimate site user tenant. We're
not there yet. That would be addressed at final site plan and uh that um I think satisfies the concerns of the board. Number 11, the applicant obviously has to comply with any other outside agency permits. Number 12, it's
common. We want an asbuilt plan and that may ultimately come at the time of the final site uh plan approval, but it's in our resolution. Number 13, all fees are paid. And number 14, just to give a little teeth to the resolution, if there's a violation of the resolution,
it may affect the applicant's certificate of occupancy to the extent permitted by law. And those are my uh corrections and clarifications if anyone has anything else. >> And I was not at the last meeting, but I
was at the first meeting. So take what I say with a grain of salt. Um but at that first meeting, I know there was some current concern about operating 247 and um Mr. Spoon Maker said that um they did
not have intentions of doing that. And I believe we said that would be made a condition. Um, and if we don't do it now, I think it's going to be harder to try to apply that to a tenant coming in later. Is that something that you could consider adding? That's uh I would put
it in let's say after nine uh in that sequence that uh the uh uh the approval contemplates um uh time
place and manner of operations during normal business hours or you know that's kind of tough though with a warehouse it may on Saturdays and weekend. What are you thinking, Joe? >> I know he did say that there would be
some trains coming in a little bit later. So, I we can't restrict it there, but maybe just to say that >> he agreed that it would not be a 365 day a year, 247 hour operation. Yeah, that that seemed to be his his um
his caveat that sometimes because you can't control when the railroad comes, >> but then when they come then they were going to shut down the lights um and not keep them going. It would only be during those times. >> All right. So, why don't I put down uh the uh applicant had testified that the
contemplated operation would not be 365 days a week or 24-hour operation and the uh regulation of time, place, and manner of the tenant will be addressed at the final site plan approval. >> Okay. >> Okay. That would be if uh I think we
>> Yeah, because he did say that he needed someone available to be there in case, you know, the railroad did come to drop off cars at the sighting >> and I think that's part of Ron's comment on the rail use logistics plan. I think
that's uh am I right, Ron? Is that Yeah. >> Isn't this a totally industrial zone with no residents nearby that zone? as I remember where it was located. >> The end of Aaron Way, >> the block place, you know.
>> Yeah. >> But to keep we talked about keeping if they kept the lights on all through the night like they were proposing it um affects the migratory pattern of the birds etc etc. So he did agree to that >> and Ernie we can say uh that time as I
suggest time place and manner which is kind of the operation can be addressed uh by way of uh through the final site plan approval when they have the tenant. >> So otherwise you're really restricting >> tenants you know what I mean we'd want
to see what that tenant wants to do. >> Right. >> Right. Right. So again, the language would be that uh uh the final approval con or the the applicant uh stated they have no
intentions of a 365 days uh uh a year 24-hour operation, but the final site plan uh approval will address time, place, and manner of the tenant operation. >> Just another shot at that.
get another opportunity then to talk about the hours. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. I have nothing further. >> Okay. Uh if anybody or everybody is comfortable with what's been discussed
or what's been proposed, any questions, comments? I just want to say that I don't think any of these conditions take into account any of the items that the environmental commission, you know, concerns related to. I mean, it is um it
was noted by them um that they wanted a cooler lights, a reduction in lights, landscaping, and they this area is close to a wellhead.
It is in an area that is adjacent to an area that there's wildlife. >> I just want to clarify though that it does it does address it though. Uh number three talks about the uh planning
board engineers report and also the uh uh uh planners report. Those were addressed in there. In addition, number five talks about the snow removal easement which addresses the salt issue and the like. Uh and also the storm
water maintenance plan which is number five also addresses the environmental. So uh I'm comfortable since this is a preliminary site plan approval. Uh but I respect the the comments on the environmental but I do believe uh it is in here um by way of those engineer
planner and those other reports. But good comment. That's part of the record. And if uh you'd like, I could just on the uh as I recited the police department uh on the fire department number four, I could recite the
environmental uh concern and uh I would recommend we include that in the resolutions. And again, I wasn't take this with well, maybe not a grain of salt, but uh take
this carefully. Uh number seven, I I note that you have uh as well as anticipated tenant operational issues. Was that potentially related to the hours of operation or then following number eight, uh anticipated tenant
operation protocols to comply? >> Well, this is testimony of the applicant. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, the it It's not a conditional. It's just >> right. I mean, they asked for an approval for a single tenant. You know, was conf they asked they talked about the maximum number. If they came in for
a final site plan approval and they tweak that and you know, are you being arbitrary and capricious? If you said the maximum number of 40 and they come in with 41, you would have to make that decision of why. If there's no parking variances and there's no waiverss and
they have 45 employees, I I think you would be understanding. Uh this is the testimony that was given from the applicant. >> Okay. So, and then 122 would be the same thing. They they address time, place, and manner, but you're going to put it
as a condition. >> Yes. Okay. >> All right. With those those changes, I think it's ready. Everyone's comfortable. If I can get a motion and a second for approval with
the changes as put on the record. >> I'll make that motion. >> Roll call, please. >> Bogler. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Rond. >> Yes. >> Council Mark Scott. >> Yes. >> Brian Zimmerman. >> Yes.
>> And >> yes. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. And that having been said, we will open to the public for comments on matters that are not on the agenda.
Anyone? No questions and comments from the public. Last chance for the year, guys. Okay, seeing none, um, >> thank you. Um, before we move into, uh, into executive session, um, unlike some
of my colleagues, I do not have a prepared statement. However, um I do want to say thank you to everyone for your hard work, your diligence, your dedication, um for everything that you put into this because I I know that if if you put half
as much as I do into it, you you put your whole essence into it. That's that's why we're here. Um and I know that we all at at our heart have Sparta's best interests um in mind when when we make our decisions. So, thank
you again to everybody, to my colleagues, my peers, our professionals, um those members of the municipal building that help make us work every day. Um so, yeah, that's uh thank you. That's
really short and sweet, but thank you. Um that having been said, we are going to move into our executive session. Um and >> what is the purpose of the executive session?
Executive session is as stated on the uh on the agenda is for professional contracts discussions and attorney comply uh client privilege communications. Um the resolution actually Ken if you wouldn't mind >> sure
>> reading that into the record. >> All right. So we have a uh a a resolution that complies with the law for close session today and it it makes reference to a discussion uh if you so move. uh for discussion on uh contract discussions and any attorney client
privilege communications. Uh so this is not uncommon. If you would like to go into executive session, you have the ability to do that. And this is it's mentions with regard to contract discussions. >> Thank you. >> Sure. >> Um
>> I'd like to make a motion that we not go into executive session for this purpose. And my basis in doing that is we spent an hour and a half at the last meeting discussing this in open public session. And so now to take it back first,
frankly, I don't know what else there is to discuss after an hour and a half. Um, but I don't think it's right to do that for an hour and a half and then go do the rest of it in executive session. So, um, I would like to put forth, as I
said, the motion to not go into executive session. second. >> So, um, brief discussion >> discussion >> at at the last meeting when we had these conversations, um, specific information was was asked for and, um, in order to
be able to provide that information, I need to expand on information that's involved in individuals contracts, which should not be public knowledge um, and shouldn't be discussed in open session. So, um, with that in mind, um, we have a
a motion in a second to not go into executive session. Please understand that if we don't go into executive session, if that's the board's choice, then the information will not be shared um and or will be shared under under separate cover um in an attorney client
privileged manner um so that it it can't be um expanded upon because it is specific to to individuals contracts and to um financial information. So maybe that would we have a motion in a second for not going into executive session. So
Dory, would you mind calling the role please? >> Oh, there's still more discussion. Um >> sorry, >> you you had a motion in a second. >> Yeah, I did, but now we're still in discussion. >> Okay. >> Um I don't know why we would have to go into the exact pre um contracts of our professionals. We're talking more about
an RFP for the future. And here we are December 17th and um there's going to be new representation, new board in January. Um and we've I think we kind of did it at nauseium. So that was kind of my rationale. I don't think we need to
go into the existing contracts. I don't know what purpose that would serve. >> So >> and then maybe then at that point we could go into executive session if we feel the need. >> Right. to answer your question is that I was asked to to come up with a cost for
for what the competitive contract um came to in in 2023. So in order to expand on that, there's information relative to to the individual's contracts that they worked on and and their purchase orders and so on at the
time. So instead of sharing that information in open, it is more appropriate to share that information in executive. >> I think we could go with the total without going into hourly rates and and um hours and all of that. Just a total and just keep it general. >> Well, it's it's gerine to the
conversation as to the breakdown um for for what fell in into what category and and and why those things were the way that they were. Um but again, I mean, I I think we're at a point now for for vote. There's there's
>> I have one question. Can this wait until the new year? >> It can. And that's and like I said, we have a motion in a second to not go into executive. And if if people would prefer to not do that, please feel free um to to vote how you see fit. I the only
reason why I put it on the the uh agenda was because I was asked to put together information and to share the information that that's that I have. It it's it's would be required. So, um that having
been said, let's uh let's go to a roll. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. The motion is to go into executive. I'm sorry. Is to not go into executive. >> So, a yes vote means you do not want to go >> to not want to go into executive.
>> Wait, say that again. I'm sorry. >> If you want to go into close session, the motion is to not >> go in. So if you say yes, >> yes, we won't go in. Okay. So yes, my vote is yes. >> So yes is not go in.
>> Not go in. >> Yes, we wait till January. >> Sorry. >> Um >> I'm going to say no. There may have been some there was definitely some topics that we could not have addressed at the last meeting. we shouldn't have the the
right people to do it. So, um the new year's coming upon us. So, if there's a point that we need to hear, let's just do it. Let's get in, get out then. So, so I'm going to say that no, we should go into session.
>> Ferment. >> Yes. >> Ernie Ragstead. >> Yes. >> Council Mark Scott. >> Yes. >> Brian Zimmerman. >> Yes. Vice Chairman Robert Otto. >> Yes. >> Mosiano.
>> The board has spoken. They don't want to go into executive. Um so uh >> Okay. I make the motion that we >> Wait. She has to vote. >> She can abstain. She can do >> I which which I I'm going to do because um you know, like I said, I I had
information. But it it is what it is. Um, so that having been said, since we are not going into executive, the board has spoken. We are we can move on to adjournment. >> All right. >> Now, I'd like to make a motion to not do an RFP
in the next year and that to renew our professionals contracts for another year. >> We've already made a decision that that's going to be a January issue. So, >> it's only your issue. You're the only one that seems to be making carrying this cross. Okay.
>> Okay. We just spoke about this meeting. >> Wait a minute. >> Gang, it's not on the agenda. And if you recall, I believe and I wasn't at the meeting. I think you've already determined that they're waiting to the the new year. There's a laws on some
people call it a lame duck board. Uh as Joan Ferman said, we don't know what January is going to bring. So, I re respect what you're all saying and I appreciate the motion. Um, but I don't think it's on the agenda and I I think there's a motion to adjurnn.
>> I will make a motion to adjurnn. >> A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> All in favor? >> I. Thank you and happy new year