Okay, good evening and welcome to tonight's meeting of the Sparta Township Planning Board. Thank you to those joining us here and online. For the record, this meeting is being held on February 18th, 2026 at 700 p.m. in the Sparta Township Municipal
Building located at 65 Main Street, Sparta, New Jersey. And the live stream can be viewed on YouTube at www.youtube.comwp. youtube.com/spartatwp. Please note that adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act. No new business will be conducted after
9:30 p.m. and the meeting will end promptly at 10. Let us begin with a salute to our flag. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and
justice for all. >> Are you would you please call the role? >> Christine Quinn >> Deputy Mayor Michael Sylvester >> here. >> Ronda Day >> here. >> Christine Dunar >> here. Joan Ferman >> here.
>> Ernie Rex >> here. >> Brian Zimmerman >> here. >> Bear Bogler >> here. >> Vice Chairwoman Janette Burke >> here. >> Chairwoman Celeles Luciano >> here. Okay. Uh and for the public who is joining us online, Christine Quinn is uh
is here on the phone with us. Um albeit not in the room, but she is present. Uh, next on the agenda, we have the approval of minutes for January 21st, 2026. Eligible to vote are Deputy Mayor Michael Sylvester, Janette Burke, Ron
Day, Christine Dunar, Joan Ferman, Celeste Luciano, Ernie Ragstead, Brian Zimmerman, and Beeret Bogler. I will open it up to the board for questions and comments on these minutes. I have one
uh on page three. After Mr. Porro listed all the classes, the next paragraph, last sentence, um the board would proceed as it has in the past interpreting its I would put the word past practice in there as valid
because we can't go backwards. But since we are going forward, I don't want it to be recognized as this is what we are doing going forward. We're just recognizing past practice. >> I have no problem with that. >> Ken can't hear you. >> I said I have no problem with that.
>> Any other questions or comments on these minutes? >> Okay. Hearing none, I will ask for a motion and second to approve the minutes as amended uh by Miss Ferman. I'll make a motion. >> I'll second.
>> Roll call, please. >> Deputy Mayor M. Michael Sylvester, >> yes. >> Ron Day, >> yes. >> Christine Dumbar, >> yes. >> Joan Ferman, >> yes. >> Ernie Raget, >> yes. >> Brian Zimmerman, >> yes. >> Beer Braggler, >> yes. >> Vice Chairwoman Janette Burke,
>> yes. >> Chairwoman Celeste Luciano, >> yes. >> Okay. January minutes are approved. We also have uh available to us in front of us the minor site plan subcommittee minutes for October through December of
2025. Eligible to vote would be Joan Ferman, Brian Zimmerman, and Bureet Bogler. Uh I believe Miss Ferman, you had some comments. >> Yeah, I wanted to to go over it all um including the voting. Um
trying to think of where to begin here. We've had a great deal of difficulty in getting these minutes out since October. They've had maybe 10 15 revisions and every time it comes back something else changes and another thing changes. Lines
change, votes change, everything. So we finally are, I think, almost at the point from January to December in approving that. But those changes are not reflected in the October or November minutes. So, I would like to vote to take them off the table completely, like
just not approve them, not have them, not show them because they're going to be contradictory to the January through December minutes unless they get go back and get changed to reflect what's in the January through December minutes and then we can approve them at another
time. And I'd like, you know, the rest of the people who are on the subcommittee to weigh in on that. >> If I could, I I would suggest you you carry it. you have an obligation to have minutes that reflect. So if there are concerns, we should just address it. Uh
I don't believe we should leave it blank. So if there's Let's pass what we can and maybe just uh carry whatever months Joan needs a little more time to clarify with. That would be my suggestion. >> Okay.
>> All right. So going on to January through December. Um, and I just got these again late this afternoon, so bear with me. Um, Yippy Arts 254. It started out where we and and the
package that you got on Friday, just so you all know, just regard it because that shouldn't have gone out that that they had a lot of mistakes. Okay, so this is the most recent one. Um and like two days ago it had MSPS voted to refer the application to the zoning board of
adjustment and then it had four of us down as nays. We changed it to I because we all voted to refer it to the zoning board of adjustment, but two names were taken out and now we have Brian Zimmerman and Beerboggler voting I.
Well, this was in February and neither one of them were on the subcommittee. >> So, I'm reluctant to, you know, without really looking at this again because it just in two days, you know, we've tried to make this correction and something gets corrected and something gets changed that's wrong. So, I'm reluctant
to really give it an approval um until I see it correctly because it who knows what it's going to be even if we say it because I've put it in writing, highlighted it, done everything and it's still coming back wrong. So I had made a comment similar to that on a different
application where it the decision was listed as being in June and my name was voided was voted I and I explained I this is not possible because I wasn't there until August. So I agree with Joan. I think that this all thing this
whole thing should be tabled because it is going to take a lot more time uh for for me also to go to go through those minutes and um I I I don't think that that should really
be done here and wasting everyone's time. >> No. Um going back >> I've spent about 10 hours on this over the last month or two and >> um we can talk about it more maybe in close session but I just saw this one as I
came in again and so I'm reluctant to trust the rest of it but what I >> had gotten an email cor like explaining what you know how it was corrected but that was just one explanation that I got and I had many other questions. So,
>> so if you'd all look at it, let's take I think it should be >> let's coordinate the the four of us if and and kind of get this right so that we we have it memorialized for for the year end. >> Yeah. What is correct? I mean, because I know people want to know this. If you go
to the very very last page, I did put together a summary here. Um well, somebody started it, but I changed it because the numbers um will not add up and that's on purpose. So in 2025 we reviewed 50 applications.
21 of them were for signs. New tenants that we approved were 19 and total other that was like a fence or a paved parking lot or in you know internal renovations something like that. There were six. Now the reason they won't add up is some people just
submitted for sign some just submitted for new tenant but you had applications that submitted for both. So that's why you won't add these numbers correctly. Um of the applications that receive we received um 10 of them required planning board
variances. So um we were getting these applications that needed variances which should have been checked prior to coming to us. Uh and then we transferred three of them to the zoning board of adjustment. So that's kind of the summary there and we can go over it and some of the other
issues um another time. >> Yeah. So hopefully by next meeting we'll we'll be able to pin down um what what things are you know >> the other thing I' I'd like to point out because the minor site plan subcommittee works on its own and a lot of it isn't
brought forth here but there are things that I think need to be brought forth and that we have to address. I mean, we're a quasi judicial body and um the minor site plan is the same thing. It's just a subsection of our planning board. Uh we I won't mention names here. Um we
had an application that came in and it needed a parking variance and we said this was probably I'm guessing in June. We said has to go to the full board. We cannot grant the variances. So instead of coming to the full board, we got the same application back about
two months later, three months later. And we said the same thing has to go before the full planning board. We don't grant the variances comes to um give me a second here. It's 25-32.
If you look at that on page four, so instead of following the proper procedure, if an application is denied, and Ken, you can kind of help us out here. If an application was not approved at the planning board level, the recourse would be for the applicant to file a suit or to do something of that
nature. In this case, they ignored both of the decisions on two occasions and the person came in, threatened a lawsuit, and administration approved it. Never told us. So, you know, these are
things I'm just bringing them out in the open because I think we have an obligation to protect our board as a body and we can't allow this to happen. and whether it means writing a letter or um just paying attention in the future that
these things don't happen and just saying no this can't happen. Uh so you >> so it's you know there's a lot going on with that and uh so noted and I I you're carrying the minutes and if it has to be
revised I I you know it's the my recollection was the applicant uh submitted that they were not seeking any variances or parking and they signed a certification in support of that. So if they lied, there are repercussions for
that. But again, we're spending a lot of time on the minutes that we agreed to carry. We have an audience here and we have uh issues before you. So >> I agree. Um okay, but I'm not going to sweep it under the rug anymore. Okay. We're going to address this issue.
>> Is there any others? >> I I fall like that. >> I have no problem with addressing the issue. I I think that um that that's probably best discussed with the town manager who was in charge of >> maybe let's put an executive session on next month.
>> We can discuss it. >> Okay, that's all I have. Thank you. >> And just for clarification, are those meetings uh recorded? >> No. No. >> Okay.
>> No. you know, the unfortunate circumstance is that um because of certain issues with within the confines of the municipal building and meetings haven't been cancelled, some of those meetings didn't even take place on site. So So no, there was no there's no recording of those meetings. >> Okay.
>> But even when they were outside in the conference room, they weren't being >> right. That's what I'm saying. So it's not it's not something that was that was formalized. Uh so moving forward to other board business and what our audience is here for the master plan progress update for
the circum circulation element of the master plan and I am proud to introduce Mr. Brian Inendola who has authored and put together this element for us and will be presenting it to us. Mr. Endola, just for the record, can you
give your name and professional address and then bring us through uh the report that you have created? >> Thank you, Mr. Toro and Chairwoman Celeste. >> Could you use the mic, please? Yes, we need you to use the microphone, please. Very important. >> I am the applicant. Yes. So um my name
is Brian Inundola and I am a principal at um Neglia Group and my focus is municipal scale uh traffic issues such as your uh circulation element and I also work with the zoning board and uh
you know I think this is my 2000th presentation in my career before an august body such as yours and I appreciate the time that all these bodies take and the volunteer hours uh because it's endless and there's many
issues that you have to deal with and so um and I'm currently employed with Neglia Group and we are our business address is 34 Park Avenue in Lindhurst, New Jersey. So um we have the occasion to present our work in progress uh which
is the draft of the circulation element uh in terms of context. circulation element is one of the 13 components that a master plan could have. Uh and this board and the township of Sparta have
elected to revamp the uh kind of like a placeholder circulation element as what most most towns have, but um we're looking to do something else. And so you have a hybrid process uh going on with
our firm. And then what I mean by that is that typically we don't drill down to local intersections. We keep it global, but as we were formulating our proposal and and liazing with the board, we were
going to do counts at four intersections and looking at the the different nodes and um areas of Sparta. It ended up we did um 10, right? So, we went a little
bit beyond the um the scope of work. And the reason why we did that was we believe it's important to take a snapshot in town or in time about how much traffic um intersections or the 10
of them that we looked at are processing in the whole context of the township of Sparta. And the reason why we've arrived at that and there is a PowerPoint but I'm talking often I'm not using the PowerPoint right now but we can >> trying to get it up. we can you know I'm
just giving you the background. So then uh because what we're noticing that um uh and looking at the different traffic counts and the data that uh postcoid there's a lot more residents working from home and they are in town pretty
much most of the day and a lot of your peak hours it used to be in traffic engineering it was you take a cra traffic count at 7 to 9 and 4 to 6 but what we're finding out is that people work from home. Oh, there we go. And uh
they're staying in town. So there's like an all day uh traffic peak. So then uh let me go to the uh we're going to go to the um after that preamble, we'll go to what we're talking
about. So right what our charge was is to thank you is to um do an assessment of the existing infrastructure. We are forecasting future travel demand. Uh, let me click one
maybe. Come on. There we go. >> All right. >> All right. >> I was using the old school cursor buttons on the >> That's why you Luke. >> So, uh, so we look at the the trends and
multimodal transportation strategies and capital improvement recommendations. So this PowerPoint or that is not the product of course the product is you know the draft that it's a work in progress and my colleague Luke here is
doing your master plan as well and ultimately the goals of the master plan and the circulation element will mesh right because we want them to be lockep and so uh what we're finding and going through
the uh the PowerPoint is that There is um all kinds of traffic in Sparta. There's heavy truck traffic uh associated with uh quiring operations
and the railroad sidings. Um you have um daily commute traffic. You have in town traffic that stays since COVID pretty high all day. That's what we're finding. And uh so you have a lot of dis disperate uses
without the benefit of uh a robust mass transit system. So if you're getting around in Sparta, you are using your personal vehicle and uh in globally uh compared to New Jersey and other towns,
uh you have a pretty uh or top tier usage of the personal vehicle because um you know it's pretty obvious that you have the train, you have the bus to New York um which is to get to Port Authority. Uh
the train is there's one station down in um Lake Apachon and then one another one out u by 23. So there's not a lot of mass transit options, but we looked at that and we looked at the 10 intersections and we're bringing that
all together ultimately in the final draft. Um, and so but we did find uh we did uh some snapshots for you to uh have the benefit of looking at tonight is that it seems that we use a program
called Street Light and it uses car pings and your cell phone data to see where that data element sleeps and where it goes to work, right? Where it resides and where it works. So it seems that we
we can discern that um we have uh a big a linkage between Pikatini Arsenal and uh Sparta. I think that that probably is obvious that there's a lot of people that work at Pikatini that live in Sparta, but it's borne out by
this because we like to back check it. Um, I think the uh the longest commute that we found was that someone works in Sparta down to Long Beach Island. >> I don't know who that is, but that is that is a monstrous commute, but we were
able to discern that looking at the data. So, we we saw that as well. But there's that's the two polar opposites of what we found. So, then we looked at like in our original charge, we're going to look at four intersections. And the more we thought about it, I said because
the way that Sparta is structured, it's has a couple of like pods, you have the um the community area of Lake Mohawk, then you have other areas. We thought we would do a sampling of the 10 intersections to capture what was going
on in in Sparta. And uh and that will be borne out in the ultimate report. uh like the there's the the draft has been available to you uh you know for a cursory look through and so you know you get to the point where you you gather
all the data right and then and and it's it's me kind of stating the obvious what everyone knows it's grown up here uh you know traffic is a bear Route 15 is a monster and I think that we find that Route 15 uh you love or hate it gets you
to other areas in New Jersey, but it's the only way to get in and out of Sparta. Uh uh aside from the secondary like 181 and and the county roads. Uh but you have to balance that with the master plan goals which we're working
with Luke is that do you advocate for Route 15 to be three lanes northbound and three lanes southbound through Sparta so you have more throughput or does the negative of that because if the
in traffic engineering if you build it they will come they the capacity will be taken advantage of. So we try and balance that in the master plan effort. We're not we're not aggressive in trying to
introduce more throughput because from a traffic point of view, those days of introducing throughput all costs are gone by the wayside. We're talking about now complete streets. How do you take a
a section? You take a 4-foot patch of the shoulder and can you make it a bike lane? Can you make it work? Can you thread the needle? And that's what we look for in when we do the circulation elements now. And so those are some of the things that we're looking for. Like
I was amazed that there's not a shuttle from the Lake of Pacon station up to here, right? There's not at least at least we can see. And then one of our report recommendations is that there's an occasional shuttle that goes I think it's down Stanh Hope that connects
through and uh and then takes you down to the train station. So you have an option. So if you're in Manhattan at 8:00, if you missed the bus, you can at least get to the train station and get a ride home eventually. So we were looking
at that as well. Um, other things that is really unique to uh what we find and you know again stating the obvious because you're all on the planning board and you appreciate the town for what it is is that you have like this great um town and country tension, right? And
that is like the downtown area here on Main Street and also the the more rural areas in Sparta. And you know our goal is not to upend that but to complement that. So, um, we are looking to
recommend that either it's a native application or it is a commercial application where you can figure out where the sidewalks are and you can get to a trail head from basically borrow from town township hall to Lake Mohawk
into the first set of trails that are up along that area. So, we want to take the advantage of that and you know um that's part of what we're looking on. So like one of the bill points in the key intersections impact on the community.
Uh you know like there's applications that come to the boards main street is busy. It is always busy and it's hard to get out of the driveways. And then do you build your way out of that or do you
And in building your way out of that, what I mean like putting left turn lanes in and right turn channelized lanes and putting like um like um next level intersections is is that something that Sparta wants? And most of these are on
the county roads. So it takes a while to get through that process. So that's what we're looking at too. So, um that's where we're at in, you know, gathering the data. Uh uh you know, we also look to see what what regional uh traffic
improvements are happening to Route 15 and they are spending millions of dollars literally on Rockfall uh for Route 15. So, and that is in the uh programmed in the uh transportation improvement program and it's in the it's in the uh draft. So we keep track of
that, right? And then you make sure, you know, the as a as you know, as a town or the township advocates for its, you know, citizens, that's something to be looked at to make sure progress for these largecale projects are moving forward as they should because they get
bogged down in federal processes and and and things of that nature. So um and we also like, you know, I think do I have another slide? So those are the intersections we looked at. um the 10 uh you know we looked at one which is
really uh interesting is Main Street Wood and Spring and Sparta they're like together and uh we were thinking that that could be perhaps future funded to be a modern circle you know roundabout some people hate them some people love
them and it's not for me to decide that but we can suggest that but it it seems that because it has a high accident rate which is also what we looked at uh and it's also in the draft uh these are these are what these uh initial goals and recommendations are borne out. So um that's where we are in
a nutshell and and I mean for us as uh we love the uniqueness of Sparta. It's uh it's almost like the uh end of Route 15 but it's not. 15 goes from three to two to one and it happens here basically
and um and that has its challenges because it carries um a lot of traffic is like 29,000 vehicles per day northbound and southbound added up. that's pretty substantial and um you know that's the challenge but I think a circulation
element can't be skewed to solving Route 15 because you can advocate to get that solved with the DOT and your your um representatives at this at the state house and your congressman and congresswoman but um we believe that we
like to take advantage of what you have and make it the best it can be and then take this the circulation element and serve as the basis of future grant funding to um uh start to implement improvements that um that is reflects
what the town wants. So that's that's where we are. I think I have another slide. So then like this is more like data like like we said the your evening peak hour is not 5:30. It's a 2:30 to 3:30m when people who are working from
home take a break either pick up their kids or they just take a break. But it all happens then. If I was here in 2018, it would have been 5:30 to 6:30. It's it's changed. And uh you're also the um
when we look through the census data, the people that work from home are now at like 20% here in Sparta. So, I don't know if people move here with intention to enjoy Sparta and work from home or they they can move to Sparta because they don't care about the commute
because they can work from home. I don't know the answer to that question, but I think it's a little bit of both. Uh so there's there's that that's what we discovered. And then your weekend peaks are typical. And um uh so but that is you know what we're finding globally in
New Jersey that it's not the peak hour in the in the evening commute commute as much. Uh it's it's a little bit earlier and the peak is not much different from 10:00 a.m. on to like 5:30 p.m. They're
there's not like a sharp peak anymore because people are doing going about their business and they're staying home. Um so that's what the circulation element has discovered so far and uh and that's you know ultimately
you know will this also foster the genesis of um of ordinances so because Sparta is unique right is it feasible to put sidewalks at every along every uh uh
county road and um uh residential runs or or residential uh subdivisions that never had them. In some instances, yes and most instances, no. Right? So, it's a good policy that new construction should have sidewalks even if there's
sidewalks to nowhere. I know some people do not like that. they don't make sense or uh in talking with Luke is that you know some some another alternate route is that you go and it's pretty extensive process that you create a transportation
improvement fund and you can say okay this one street makes sense to have the sidewalks extended and as different development projects come in they pay towards a contribution to that which is mayor and council buyin ordinance buy in
and a way to administrate administratively take care of it. But that's one way to look at that to put in sidewalks where they're not where they make sense. But those the people that live or have businesses along those uh
uh runs uh uh have no there's no need for them to build the sidewalks. And we'll make a suggestion in one of our mapping is potential areas where sidewalk connectivity gives you your best return on investment. So I think that's the way we would approach that
ultimately of sidewalks because it's it's um it's a it's like I said, it's a town and and country situation. So, we want to make the town part as connected as possible and then provide um connection points to
the the uh the non-town part as best as possible. And so that's and that's where we are with our thought process and our data gathering. So that's uh I think that is that it? >> Oh, okay. And then, you know, you've
heard it uh at levels of service A through F, the intersections, the 10 intersections we counted. We looked at them in the AM and PM peak hours to see what was at F. Uh that one intersection that's um is an unsalized intersection.
um has caught my eye and uh that might be something that we would advocate for a modern uh roundabout, but I would like to gauge the temperature of of course the township to see if they would you know want to move forward on that and
invest uh you know their um capital whether it's political or uh relationship capital with the county in doing something like that. But you know that we would advocate for that if we we looked at that. So just as a highlight,
uh Route 15, uh there's 30,000 cars per day. Uh another comparable road to U Route 15 is uh next on our list is Main Street from Sparta Avenue to Menhurst
Road. It's a it's about 11,000 cars per day. So you have these like main main street really processes a lot of traffic and that's why when you have applicants before you and you know the board said well you can't get out of the driveway. Well you can't get out of the driveway because Main Street's that that busy and
um so that is all you know tabulated and put in the report. So um I mean that's where we're at in terms of a uh a checkpoint I guess for the circulation element. We're pretty far along with the data gathering. Um, I'm going to say we're like 90% done with the data
gathering and the other 10% is working with Luke and Lindsay to put in um uh policy statements and goals that are uh within reach and and pragmatic. So that's where we are at. So if we have
any questions, I'd be glad to entertain them. And I think we have that's it. Okay. >> Up the levels of service chart. >> Yeah. >> Yes. this one. >> There's one more. Oh, yeah. You have we threw we threw this in. >> We have another couple of slides here. >> Yes. Yes. Sorry. Uh so then so then if
you look at Sparta and Northshore, right, and its cousin at uh Pine Terrace, that's where you have levels of service F. So that's why we looked at that and we believe that when we do that the circulation element will have a
preliminary plan and a budget so that be carried forward into any grants that you may want to apply to that intersection. And so we looked at that uh and then we just uh those are just s data samples for you to look at um for those two
intersections. and they are they're fairly busy and uh um so that's why we thought that um the congestion and whatever frustration with drivers could be revisited and um we'll put together a
preliminary um list of improvements that think we think can go forward. Uh and then so we are looking for uh you know we talked about pedestrian connectivity. There's there's like we we're not huge fans of sidewalks of nowhere, but where
we can thread the needle, we will um and create trails and bicycle routes. And you know, you're pretty well trailed if you in in our draft uh report, we've come up with the number of trails that are existing in Sparta. And we also back
checked with the uh commercial application, all trails, and that's one of our recommendations that we do. And I spoke to that before about um uh putting an app together or augmenting existing apps to get
sidewalk connectivity as if it was a trail to have that town and country experience. And then we think that uh we've I've done it in other towns whether you advocate for a federal grant to get a shuttle. I don't think you have
a town shuttle. I think you rely on the local TMA or transportation uh mobility association uh which is a shuttle but um we do u we've introduced commuter shuttles in not not similarized towns
but there is uh federal grants that pay for the uh at least for the um expense of the shuttle and that can run to commuter centers where they make sense like we don't have that route and that's it's another input process Yes. And so
that's okay. That's me. All right. >> On the same slide as with the comparative levels of service, uh could you please address what you mean by movement counts? >> There's another >> me again next to it >> trying to bring it up.
Yeah, it's like on the bottom. You able to right click that >> scrolling but not open. Open. >> It's open.
Don't know if the screen is refreshing. You know what I mean? Sometimes it happens. >> We have they don't >> Yeah, we have it up. Yes. >> While we're going through that, just
quick comment and Mr. and Dolan mentioned that how important the circulation element is for grants and the like. Uh so this really is a great product that can be utilized to obtain grants not only for sidewalks as Brian
said, uh shuttles, federal, state, county programs. So uh >> I mean it's a >> good product if I if I if you have a question in the uh from the uh this PowerPoint I have it in front of me here >> right but the public also needs to see
it Mr. Superintend >> understood. >> There you go. >> There we go. >> I think we are in the comparative levels of service slide. Slide 10. >> Try to get there. >> Oh, just try to get there.
Brian, while we're getting that, can you what's the next step? The next the next step is that um as your master plan is being worked on uh with Lindsay and Luke, I you know lies with them and then
like I said we expand our goals and our conclusions to mesh what they find with the demographics and the changes needed for >> okay for the for the township. Right. I wanted to make sure I'm not recommending
pie in the sky that it does not reflect the demographics that Luke is working on and they're and they're in the first like they're they're they're getting through that. If I miss mis misspeak luke tell me correct me. So uh so that's where we're at. So I want the
circulation element to be a resource with all the counts that we did and also make suggestions like we're looking at the slide now uh where we have the levels of service F uh which means the intersection is annoying to get through
and so and these is these are unsalized intersections because we also recommend that the signalized intersections in the township are mostly county intersections and we and you know reach out to uh Sussex County and say could you please
make sure that your traffic signals have been inspected and are working as intended because we find that a lot of traffic signals drift over time. you have a blackout. Uh it goes to a a
default timing that will cause so much aggravation and really all you need to do is open the box, check the programming, close the box, fix the programming. And then so we we believe that that needs to be
done before you start suggesting adding signal heads and lanes for the signalized intersections. Now >> Brian, if I may on that point because that's a very very good point. People are unaware when we get a blackout or the lights go out that they are not
reprogrammed or recalibrated to the the specifications they were originally supposed to meet. >> Yes. and it takes them 30, 60, 90 plus days or whatever to coordinate that. And that's that's big. You I've seen it myself >> driving through town and uh I could tell
when they weren't and when they were were out and or when they were recalibrated. So knowing that when you did this study, did you look at that in were those lights assessed those signals assessed >> based on the information you're
presenting tonight? >> No. You're just recommending that we should look at this. >> So it is subject to possibly your your study subject to some of those signals impacting or skewing the data. Correct.
>> Yes. So we always recommend that um the jurisdiction that runs the traffic signal or has responsibility for it at least once a year um does a a maintenance check. supposed to but uh like you said like so not to get into
the arcana of traffic signals >> but I will because I can't help myself is that >> the traffic signals get their timestamp from the frequency of the power provided by the utility. If the generator ramps
up a little bit or slows down a little bit it changes the frequency that sets the 60 hertz which is how a clock is set. So, it's not an independent clock. It's a power company clock. And over time, like the AM and PM um timings
drift. So, you have to get in there and you have to reset it and reset the clock unless you do a when I design them. Now, we put a little hockey puck on top, which is a GPS receiver, and it gets the time signature from three satellites.
So, it's independent of the local power grid. But I'll stop. Okay. And then I think there's a question from one one of the board members. >> Yeah. Uh so you didn't address the red counts are not permitted at these intersections. Movement counts. What is that? Because when I looked at this
presentation I couldn't figure that out for myself. >> There are cheaters. >> What does that mean? >> And they people are making westbound lefts at Sparta and Northshore Trail because they're not allowed. and they for whatever with frustration or for
whatever reason and they do that with the westbound right at Sparta Avenue and Pine Terrace. So I think they if they see an opportunity they just jump on it and they do a loop around and so that's that's what's happening. So that to me is becoming my pet project to revamp
that that intersections to see if we can make them a little bit more efficient. And uh and it just coincidentally you see the red and the the counts and then you see I guess I'll call it salmon on the left and that's where you have
levels of service F which indicates that there's certain driver frustration at these intersections and the intersection frustration or experience is borne out by people just wheeling around and making U-turns. So that's what we're finding at that one intersection when we
did the counts. So Brian, just for the public, uh it's like school A is good, B is >> Oh, yeah. So, so the uh what we're presenting is the um based on the highway capacity manual published by the transportation research board for
methodology to determine grading scales on how uh intersections operate on a grading scale of A through F. A being the best and F being the worst. So uh so then those intersections that we've just
speaking about with the uh with the uh illegal almost U-turns are the ones that have uh caught our curiosity to see what we can do better. >> And Brian in the in the uh parenthesis
that is the count the number of cars is >> the PNS is the delay per vehicle on average. So, if you are on Sparta Avenue and Northshore Trail and you are an overall level of service F, which is
pretty annoying, you have to wait a while to make turning movements through that intersection. >> So, the 400 >> 9 seconds. >> Yeah. >> Not minutes. So, you're that's how you're waiting a while. >> Yeah. But so, so the delay is in seconds. Your unit is in seconds.
>> Yes. The average delay per vehicle. So Ken, just so you know, >> back and put these in footnotes in Sure. So we >> No, we have a full explica the it's fully explicated in the body of the draft. >> We just put these out as uh snippets from the draft.
>> All right. So just for the public, the chart is reflecting the ABCD, the grade of the intersection, and then in parentheses, it's the amount of time that a person is waiting before they can enter that intersection. >> Right? It's a it's on it's on a bell curve. So, it's the average delay
experienced on a bell curve. Sometimes you get lucky, you get right through, but and sometimes you're longer, but it's basically on a a bell curve experience. >> So, Ken, I spent a lot of time this afternoon going through this presentation and I have a lot of
questions. So, since we're on this slide, uh Pine Terrace and Northshore Trail are part of Lake Mohawk Country Club. Those are private roads. Uh well it indicates it's county route. >> Sparta Avenue 517 is county road but
Pine Terrace unless I am incorrect is >> correct >> is Lake Mohawk Country Club and Ernie Reichstag is confirming that and so is Northshore Trail. So that's um >> they're private roads. >> They're private roads.
>> You weren't aware of that. >> Well to to we we were when we did our smattering of counts, right? We did 10 counts. We were jurisdictionally blind. We just thought where we saw nodes that made sense. We got the traffic count data.
>> So the fine node >> like it's like where is like like where like where do you think traffic is going to gather to go somewhere else, right? So then that was like a gathering for that neighborhood and it's going out into the larger uh county area. So that's why we counted that. There's
because we don't because the data is available to us um for the service that we use there is we can just get the data. >> Okay. So um that is cut through traffic because a
lot of people are using those private roads >> to have a shortcut between 517 and 181. >> Mhm. Yep. >> And those are private roads. Those private roads were never designed to handle that much traffic cutting through
them. People live on those blocks. People have kids who play on those blocks. People walk their dogs on those blocks. People try to get out of their driveways on those blocks. So how would in your experience how would you suggest
that a node be fixed where you know you you can't you can't take away a private road and make a town. So how how are you how do you prop propose to fix that node knowing now that those two roads
Northshore Trail and Pine Terrace are private? That is so if it's a non-starter, we identify an issue. Okay. >> Right. That it's level of service F. If it's a non-starter due to jurisdictional issues, there's nothing much we can do. >> I see. Okay.
>> Unless it unless you know the, you know, it's like a almost like a college campus situation, right? You know, it's uh it's to me it's the same thing. And unless the entity that controls that road reaches out with some sort of memorandum of understanding or agreement that they
would like to be participants in uh improvements, then it's not a non-starter, but I don't Sounds like it's not happening. >> Yeah, if I may. Well, first off, I mean, it's a moving target, right? I mean, really appreciate the work and the effort you put into this. Um so just
from my understanding is it uncommon or is it you the study here is to set a baseline for a resource guide as the master plan is going through its progression or change. Correct. And then you will readress it at the end to make
sure the circulation is supportive of the master plan. Correct. >> Correct. So if the master plan suggests areas that this is just a hypothetical that there should be more intense development like say next to Route 15. I
don't know if the master plan is going to say that or not but then the circulation element should reflect that there are intersections that are inadequate to support that or they will need to be improved in the context of the development process. We don't know
the answer to that yet. And and based on your selection of the 10 nodes, um 80% of your study proved that we really didn't have much of a traffic area issue in eight out of 10 of them.
>> For the most part, they operate pretty well. >> So, it's a pretty positive from a perspect a perception issue. I think people were probably going to think it was a little bit more intense or um but I'm seeing that as a as a positive with
those two areas with a maybe a more concentration or focus in those two areas that you identified on preliminary data to be issues. Correct. >> Yeah. You know, overall the uh the unsalized intersections work well. Uh there may be times where there are
strong peaks like as soon as the kids get out of school. That's annoying when you're trying to get across town because you cannot make time. But other than that, uh for the most part, the intersections that we looked at, the one subject intersection that is uh not
within the township, halfway not in the town jurisdiction seems to be the one that has uh seems to be problematic. So overall, not terrible. >> Okay. And then lastly, when you just similar to the signals, uh not
accounting for maybe their accuracy or them being programmed correctly, did you consider any construction patterns that were going on and uh that were going on during the time of your study in your counts, i.e. route 15 bridge that's been out for was out for a long period of
time that had a lot of backup people trying to cut and navigate around it. Um we had a lot of construction in town as well >> going on with the sewer lines and the gas lines etc. So did were you able to document the construction activities
during this and can you put if if so can you put that or reference that as some of your um you know observations? So what uh our the traffic data that we use is a statistical cross-section of many time
periods. And so that gives us a little like I so then um we're not subject to a like if I go to count traffic with my board or my my my traffic counter and I don't know that there's a detour down the street then my data is kind of
skewed not right. Okay. But this what we do is we use um the data set that makes these traffic counts is like 15 data sets which is the beauty of using um vehiclebased vehicle and cell phone
based data and then it's gone through it goes through a statistical um correction so that it correlates with an actual field count which then makes it acceptable to the uh the DOS of the world. So that so that's all kind of
proved out. >> But what is that? So that's like averaging out the spike and dips. >> Yes, it does. Like so like the data that I have is not skewed by when we had this the sink holes on Route 80. Right. It was a mess. Right. Right.
>> It's like you know it was just a mess. And then when you have sewer work and gas work that seems to be endless. Uh that is not skewing the data as well. >> So we try to avoid that. Um, that's why we go to I think I have like 10 data points for intersection, you know, over
like eight hours. >> And Mike, I think if I remember and correct me, Brian, it's was from 2009 to 2021. A very long period. >> Oh, yeah. It's actually um they just updated through to 25. >> So, this is >> the data >> probably I'm sorry, 26. You he just you
just updated the data through 25? >> No, the data runs uh many years and up to and including uh 2025. >> Okay. But what we have here is just through 2021. >> No, no. Was we just updated the program? >> You did because I didn't see that. >> No, no, we we refreshed the program
subscription. >> Are you talking about the search light data? >> Street light. Yes. >> I'm sorry. Street light data. >> Yes. >> And what were those years again? >> I think uh we selected uh 21. I have to look this see what the composite are. But it's the bottom line is that it's
many it's more data points that I would if I was physically counting them because if I physically count them and or hire data service to physically count it it's more to me more arbitrary and these are statistically you know vetted
you know like the standard deviation changes when you have enough data samples and stuff like that. So this is not subject to that. Okay, since we're on this slide, uh I noticed that there were five other intersections where you don't have the delay on. Uh do you do you have the delay for Main Street in
Woodport Road and Spring Street? >> If it's if it's signalized, I did not do the levels of service for it as we explained. >> Ah, I see. >> So, because um we do that because we figured if it met the warrants for a traffic signal, right, it's doing its
function as a traffic signal. it that and as we had said before that if the traffic signal is maintained and updated as it should be it should be working how it how it was intended and >> Brian just for the record if you could
explain also to get a traffic signal is not an easy feat in of itself. Uh so is that what you're saying if there is a traffic signal >> depends on the consultant you're talking to Kenya. >> Yeah. But no, it's a there's a uh the manual of uniform traffic control devices has I think it's six or it's
like I think it's up to 12 warrants that uh qualify for a traffic signal. So if you go to the county and say you make the peak hour warrant, one peak hour, they'll say basically get lost because every intersection at some point will
make a peak hour warrant. So they'll say what is the four and the eight? Is there sustained demand for a new traffic signal? So, you know, it's a it's a process and you have to do a a standalone traffic signal warrant uh to see if it needs to be signalized and not
and even if it's warrantable doesn't bring any liability upon the township if they make that determination which there some towns are hesitant to do that because they don't want to have a situation where they a signal is obvious but there the funds are not
there or um the design is not there. So, yes, it is a process. It's about a two-year process. In some counties, it's a five-year process. >> Was North Village one of your North Village 15 intersection one of the nodes in your study?
>> Hold on a sec. >> North Village going up to White Lake and then it was Houses Corner. >> It was bookended, Mike. It was NJ 15 and Wilson Drive and Houses Corner and Lafayette Road. So they all consolidate. It was
>> No, it was two separate points. But top right, uh, >> North Village is in between. >> Mhm. >> Those two, >> but that data was captured. >> Yes. >> Which is that was a weird intersection, but we were able to capture it. >> But because there's a traffic light
there, we don't have delay data. >> Do I have Do I have that correct? >> How about accident prone areas? Was that factored in? Did we able to get some police data where we had some troubled areas where most of our accidents occur?
>> We had we did a um we looked at the available data for um your uh accidents and please hold >> which uh >> my report.
>> It's in the draft. It's page 35. And we have so what we're able to do is that we did a global mapping of uh it's on page 36 of the draft and the red areas show a heat map of problematic
runs. Uh it's in the report and and then getting to your crashes that are available from the state police safety voyager system. Uh the number one crash
intersection is Houses's Corner and Lafayette um um um road also 15. So that's got 57 crashes from 2021 to 25 and 13 people
were hurt at that intersection. So that intersection needs a little little work we would say on a safety. Brian, um, when you presented this draft to the subcommittee last week, you had the data, so it it's obviously in your
computer. Are you able to put it up here so everybody could see that data? Because I thought that was kind of informative to really see those numbers. Well, I have it in the report, but I didn't put it in the PowerPoint because I didn't think we're, you know, if we But I can tell you that Houses Corner
and 15 uh um 57 crashes uh New Jersey 15 and New Jersey 181 where they come together, 55 uh over that same period, and 15 and Wilson White Lake uh Road uh 53. So,
those are the top three that are substantial and they have uh an a history of injuries from 21 to 25. Um Brian, do you have anything about um 181 and 517 intersection because I find
that very busy and challenging and the site isn't very good going into uh Sparta coming up the hill there. >> Uh if I didn't count it, I will count it. Barta pharmacy. >> Barta pharmacy
state job lot. Uh Welsh Farms United Methodist. >> It has all that but >> not here. >> 15 and 181. >> That's why I thought if you could >> 181 and 517 the intersection there. >> Oh, if we haven't looked at it we will. I mean
>> you did. >> Okay. >> You did on >> Okay. Since we haven't left this chart yet, I still I have a couple questions on it. Um if you look over at the right for the count movement counts for um
Spart Avenue, Northshore Trail and then the Pine Terrace, all of the traffic is coming from Northshore, whether it's leaving Northshore or coming on to Northshore. Doesn't matter if it's from Pine Terrace or um Northshore Trail. So would I be
correct in saying that the 1624 and the 1547 for weekday mornings represent about 3,200 vehicles? >> Uh so yes right if you look at the week matter which one it's all coming or
going >> Yep. >> from there. So about 3200 vehicles. So when when you look then at Westshore Trail and Northshore Trail, the other end, the only possible way that they can either come or go, those numbers were very different and got A and B ratings.
So I started to look at that and what I realized is that your peak hours were different. So you had peak hours of what 2 2:30 to 3 or whatever for um Northshore and Pine Terrace, but when you got to Westshore Trail, they were
like a 5 to6 hour. So it's apples to oranges. Can you go back and do the same time period so we can see it? I mean, it says something interesting to me is that the peak hour waines and the traffic is way down at that time, but it's not a comparable number.
>> Yeah, we we'll look at that. They're probably very similar like No, no. I mean, when we look at those those time periods, we'll we'll look to see that. >> Yeah. Because that represents a whole other factor, you know, from West Shore Trail to Northshore, >> but you know, if you have 30 whatever I
said, 3,200 vehicles on that road, they have to be coming and going from that other side. And so, you know, I didn't check them all, but if you could just go back and make sure that we're if we're looking at a chart like this that they're all the same time period so we can compare the A's, the B's, the C's, because I have a
feeling Westure and Northshore are going to change from A and B to an F. >> We'll look at that. >> Okay. >> Can I ask you a question? >> Sure. >> So, the first question I have the west
road as main street on eastbound week uh weekday morning there's no data there and that community would be when there's a huge amount of students and teachers and school buses and whatnot
there was no data in there >> which intersection was that >> so west mountain road and main 57 >> oh spell. >> It's Oh, >> yeah. Um, let's see.
We do have the uh weekday AM. I don't know why we didn't put that in there. So, but we do have levels of service D on the PM and I guess that I I don't know why. I guess it was a formatting issue. I don't know why that did did not report. I have it in the appendix, but
it'll take me a couple minutes to find it. >> He has the data. it just wasn't uh populated into the um into the PowerPoint. >> Yeah, we'll have to look at that. Um that's a contributing people off their kids coming up um short
and then the the traffic progresses through the school over to 517 and then back up at that. But I think the main issue there is you can make a right excuse me
if you are coming or whe are referring to >> yeah you're right Chris that makes this Joan, it makes it even scarier because kids are in the car. >> Does anyone else on the DS have questions?
>> I got I apologize. I got yelled at because uh I didn't speak into the mic last time. >> Um first of all, I I appreciate you being here and presenting this to presenting this to us tonight. Um when I when I think of a master plan, my
thoughts are, you know, not just today, but what are the problems we're going to be facing 20 years out? And the background data that you had in here and we've been discussing tonight is very helpful for at least, you know, setting the table for here's here's a good starting point. I I don't think we want
to limit it there, but I'm not sure the master plan gets into fix this this intersection this or I think that's outside. What I didn't see, and it sounds like it's still in works, was what are the goals and objectives? Um, and to me,
that's the heart of of the element. And I think when I look at the other master plan elements, they're all there and they're in one section, and it's real clear. I know we had when we when we did the um the recreation, we we we went through that and they did a really good job there. Um,
the other thing was when I looked at the recommendations, a lot of the recommendations seem to be more with pedestrian traffic and trails than the veh vehicle traffic and and you have there and you know the traffic that's 76% of of the problem per the
report. So, I'm hoping that it sounds like you're still working goals and objectives and there will be some there that talks to the vehicle traffic on a on a top level basis as opposed to like a intersection level basis. Is is that is that correct?
>> Yes. And that with the uh the segue as the master plan >> gets set when there's more focus on macro issues. >> Yes. the circulation element will be more wholesome to reflect that because
>> our approach to this circulation element is that when we wrote the proposal it was a hybrid right we want to get a snapshot of what it is now uh which is we're I think we're done with that part of it and then as we developed a master plan the goals and ob goals and
recommendations of the circulation element will reflect the those more macro issues So, it's going to be something that's going to we're going to look at 10 years from now. We're going to say, "Yep, we still need to be monitoring." And that would be goal and objective, >> right? That is to focus on connectivity. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, the larger infrastructure
investments, uh, that, you know, I believe that as Sparta grows up, it's going to be evident that that's going to be needed in the next 10 years. Yeah. >> Even more so. >> Uh, so we will reflect that ultimately, but thank you for your comments. One one
recommendation I'd give to you is that you know take a look at the old the existing master plan from I guess it's 1984. You know I read the element that you prepared and I also looked at at the existing element and I think there's a lot of goals and objectives in there
that are still valid today could be easily carried forward. those we we find that to be the same >> that the the needs that a town have uh has they tend to stick around to be multigenerational >> and uh that I don't think Spart is any exception.
>> Okay. One other suggestion is um in the section I think it was section three the planned improvements um that was limited the way I read it to really just talking about the the rock falling mitigations going along Route 15. Um, I think
there's a lot of stuff going on in the town in terms of there's there's a road plan which talks about, you know, like a a calendar or circular or cycle of roads are going to get paved, they're going to get looked at and fixed and talks about line of sight. It probably be worth it
to get some type of doesn't need to be a lot, but just, you know, when you look at improvements, what are we doing as a town today? just again as a baseline and maybe bring some some of that into the the final draft. And then the last comment I would have is again looking at
the old master plan um there was a lot of discussion in there about the route uh 517 bypass um which has been taken care of but I think the version of that today is route 15. So, I'm hoping that the master plan is going to have some
goals and objectives in terms of things we we can do. And I know it's it's it's not our road, but we can voice opinions and we can make recommendations to the county, to the state. Um, so hopefully there'll be some goals along along those lines. Um,
so, so those those are my comments and the only one favor I can I can ask if I could is um in the future when you when you put out the draft market as draft or unapproved because there's probably going to be various versions of this going around between now and when it's approved. This is why we know
>> I've learned my lesson >> the draft and it has a date right on it. So we we do have that on the uh >> Oh, I'm so I'm talking about on the actual um document itself. Yeah, it's on the actual document. >> I didn't see that. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm because >> All right. My my mistake. Thank you.
>> Right. So, we'll make like I have to have uh date um orthodoxy on these because we'll make office changes and then someone won't backsave it correctly. So, you touch it, you date it. So, yes, I agree wholeheartedly.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. I had a quick question. You had uh you'd mentioned earlier about a roundabout or something. What intersection was that that you were talking about? >> That the intersection that I can't do because it's owned by uh private entity.
>> That would be at uh um where is it? >> Where is it? >> Right there. It's right up here. >> Where we have the levels of service up. Northshore and Pine. >> Okay. >> Oh, I I thought you were suggesting the roundabout for Main Street at Woodport Road and Spring Street at Sparta Avenue,
which is the Valley Bank jug handle. >> Okay. >> That's a whole other animal. So, what are you talking about? I misspoke. >> That is the roundabout you're talking about. The valley where where the bank is. The jug >> handle one. Just one. Just one. >> Ah. >> Oh, okay. All right. That makes more sense. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> I have one question. One of the items that was dis was discussed during our um that breakout meeting that we had at the high school when they we presented the the planet.
>> Yeah. Um some of the residents who were there had talked about um incorporating possibly working with utility companies to bring natural gas to other parts of Sparta. I mean the newer developments
have it. Um and I know that it it is coming closer. Is that in any way or in any way part of this plan? >> Uh circulation elements are many things but it's not that. But we could recommend that as projects are being
repaved that accommodation or coordination should be made for utility upgrades whether it's water uh sanitary or uh uh natural gas. So we could make that one of part of a wired in policy for the master plan and also the
circulation element. >> Yeah, I mean I think it's it's important um to to add it in. >> Understood. Thank you. >> Thank you. So to piggyback off of a few of Ron's comments, um we have a lot of roads here
that have connectivity to private owned county and state. So, uh whether it be 613 that runs through Lake Mohawk and and connects to or 605
um or it be 517 or B15 and 181. All of these roads connect at some point to like Mohawk to um to uh nulls to it
may there are a lot of private areas that that have connectivity to these um to these spaces. So, when we look at putting together a potential recommendation or a potential program,
um, are we going to be discussing how to get these parties to work together to try to bring forward some of some of these recommendations or or is there I mean, are we just going to kind of throw up our hands of defeat and say, "All right, well, there's there's nothing we
can do because like Mohawk and the state and um the county all kind of need to get together to figure out what's happening in in this one spot and we're, you know, um we're we're out of luck. I I I I think a lot of this conversation
has to be how to get um the town, the the private communities and the state to to work together. I think that's where we really need a lot of recommendations and a lot of help. Um because these conversations obviously been ongoing for
for quite some time. Everybody's been concerned about traffic in in one space or another. Um do do you have any thoughts on I mean yeah we've got two two areas that are F but you know we've also got some D's and C's >> which you know you add any fair share
housing here those D's and C's are very quickly going to have the same issues um as as you know as uh Northshore and and Pine Terrace. So you have any thoughts? So, you know, because I'm a little obsessive, I think about these things like how do you make like move forward
that it seems like you do have the town and country element in Sparta, but you also have um jurisdictional divisions that make it difficult to, you know, uh have a capital master plan or, you know, like a 20-year plan or a 30-year plan for your improvements.
So for a town of this size, I think it's a bit of a stretch to do like a transportation improvement district, but it might be elements of that transportation improvement district is a um legislative tool that the township of
Sparta or could be a county or in other areas it's the New Jersey Metallands. They are all they're independent transportation improvement districts that um through legislation um uh get
empowered to um effect these improvements. I think that's a bit extreme for um Sparta because it's it's a it's a town of 20,000 people. That's and to do that you really need a critical mass of like a Mercer County
population, you know, to to make that work or um but there's some there's got to be something in between is what I'm thinking. And if the parties are willing, right, anything can happen. But if the parties need to come together and see how it's mutually beneficial to
them, then there's a way forward and we can look at that and make that recommendation on how to um provide a path for improvements that are not solely in the jurisdiction of the
township, right? I mean, when you do when you work with the county and the state, you know, I don't know, my 20 years experience, if you bug them enough, you'll get stuff done, right? And we all we all know that, right? That's what that's what mayors and
councils do really well in New Jersey, right? And so, how do you do that internally? Um, if uh I think that you at some point you're going to have to have a frank roundt discussion with these entities and say, "This is what we would like to do. and are you interested
in moving forward and and and let's see how that can be done. A little bit beyond my you know um uh my process here but we will make those recommendations. >> Have you seen any other municipalities that have any similarities to us? Um
well within gated communities uh during their approval process uh when it's at the planning board the local um governing body and the planning board can negotiate certain improvements
right but I would say I don't know the exact history of Lake Mohawk but I think it almost predates the town a little bit or like they're co-equals in some sense in in the timeline not in jurisdiction. So then um that that's not an avenue. So
there has to be another avenue and I don't know if like there's like we have town gown situations between universities and townships and they get along pretty well. You know it's but there is that there is that tension. So, um, and not a bad tension, just a uh
that's it has to be worked out. And I don't know exactly how you approach if if the if that like community is its own HOA and it owns all the its own roads and the sewers and uh and the gas lines and or the sewer is a hybrid, you know,
you get to, you know, you work all that out and >> well, I think that's a great point. So anywhere there's conflicts where there's private roads coming in from whatever tying into a state a county road uh and any suggestions to make any improvements
whether simple signal andor major circle type recirculation design who's responsible um for bringing I'm I'm assuming the private road has has to meet certain specifications to be brought up to spec in order for that
project to >> move forward. Correct. I'm I'm thinking of the Pine Terrace Road, right? When you see that road, people park on it. You know, you got in and out. There's a lot of activity going on that. Is that road even up to spec? And if and when
there's proposed suggestions, lights, changes, who would be responsible for bringing that up to spec, that road up to spec. Wouldn't it be part of the approval process? >> The design engineer of course has to bring it up to spec. Then the cost
allocation can be worked out, right? >> And I'm I'm thinking more financial. >> Yeah. Yeah. So the cost allocation can be prrated based on like if you if you are a developer on the NJ DOT side and there is a traffic signal downstream that you are
contributing to, you you pay your pr-rated share that that's been vetted. But because the entity is not new, how do you go back in time and figure out the pr-rated share? You really can't. So
there has to be some sort of reasonable negotiation for that. Like like say like when we do a traffic signal um that's next to a state highway and we wanted to get it upgraded, the in the in the state policy is that the towns only pay for
the cost of the electrical improvements. That's how they do it, right? So, I'm doing that in a couple towns. Uh, so maybe that's how you do that that that if you have a triparty agreement, right? It's almost like a joint. >> It's a little more challenging when
you're dealing with a lake community or an HOA type situation where the burden of those costs may not be comparable to >> correct, >> you know, larger agencies that you're referencing. And I've seen that in the past and I seen the communities get, you know, whether they want to deed the road
over >> to the township, right? They still have to bring it up to spec at their expense to then at least be able to get that road deed over and taken over by the township, >> right? So, you know, not so what what is presenting to me is that we also
involved in joint meetings like sewer sewer joint meetings. almost are creating a joint meeting for your traffic improvements that the joint meeting could sunset after they're done. That's for that's for Ken's structure, not for me, but it seems to be like you are in some sort of joint meeting
situation where it's two entities in a couple jurisdictions. >> Can you take another look at that whole thing? And um we have a gate at Lake Mohawk which is nonfunctional right now for a long time, but it's further down. Can you maybe look at it and make a
recommendation to as to maybe a better placement for the gate? Maybe if it's up by the club or Indian Terrace where there might be a little turnabout that that would block a lot of that cut through traffic. Um whether that's an option, it might be much more cost-effective and maybe we can split
those costs or um rather than redesigning all roundabouts and you know maybe just look at some other alternative solutions. I would say as an advocate for the township of Sparta, if the association sends us a letter to look at that, we'd be glad to because it's it's coming out of our scope,
right? And but you know, like that. So if I look at it and I expend hours to do that, where do they come from? Right? You know, so that you know, if if if it's wanted, we'll look at it. >> Okay. Uh the the Pine Terrace, just to
be sure that we're all talking about the same little road, Pine Terrace is a small little connector between Northshore and 517. Pine Terrace is where you make the left if you're going to make a left onto 517. You cannot make
a left from Northshore onto 517. If you're making a right onto 517, you go northshore to come to that corner and then you make the right. But Pine Terrace is about like this big. It's teenytiny. Right behind it is houses.
Right across from it >> in Lake Mohawk is houses. There's no room physically for a roundabout. It's also private road. Um, so
I I don't see how it's feasible to, you know, do anything with with Pine Terrace and I don't really see what benefit there would be to, you know, examining what the possibilities are, especially given the fact that it's a
private road. Um, that being said, if that road gets closed off to traffic, it will send a lot more traffic to Sparta Avenue and to Main Street because people are no longer going to be able to cut
through Lake Mohawk in order to get to 181, which is where I think the majority of those numbers are actually coming from. >> Right. We're not proposing to close it. We're just, you know, >> No, it right. And and it wouldn't even
fall within the township's jurisdiction to do so. But getting back to something that you said earlier uh about, you know, traffic flowing on 15. In one of your earlier slides, you mentioned um that people work the the work slide. Where do people work? I forget what
slide that was. Um >> yeah, the pick >> the one with the red the there's a map on the left hand side NJ15 work location >> that would be slide four but I don't have the controller
>> that one. Okay. Um so 15 connects to 206 and >> that's not slide four. >> Yeah. or did they >> Why do we have three of these open? Brian, while we're waiting on that, have
you seen in other communities uh the use of like one-way streets or uh re, you know, uh just other mechanisms that assist? >> Yeah. I mean, uh I'm not a I try personally like as a traffic engineer, I
try and not introduce oneway streets unless we really have to like um and as long as there's a reasonable if I can do a one-way street or implement one, I need to have a couplet. so that the um the what was the one way that can't go
down the one way then the other next street is not overburdened. So we you know we're very careful to look at that but you know we look at you know um some towns love speed humps and so we look at that and we install them where you have chronic uh speeding issues. um you know
that's and um and you know there's also enforcement and education but we look at everything you know we try and apply what's not exorbitantly expensive to get like an effective uh response traffic-wise.
Okay, we got the slide up. >> Yeah. So now we're here and um so 15 connects to 206 in Frankfurt. So you on on the right hand side it said most residents work within Sparta or nearby m
municipalities. The second row uh says NJ-15 between it's it should be 181 not 118. You have a little >> for the typo apologies. >> Uh and Sparta Avenue uh 517. And those people tend to work in Augusta and
Frankfurt Township. Um NJ15 connects to 206 in Frankfurt and that's also how you get to Milford and to in Pennsylvania or to like Port
Jervis in in New York. Uh are you accounting for the additional traffic that comes especially from Pennsylvania? >> Uh what that slide represents is where people work and where they're sending.
So it it so as you go out and it's more gray, it would show that like if I zoomed in in in the program in the analysis when I do the query, it I like I said, I saw the one commuter that works in LBI, I saw a I saw a dot down
the shore and similar to on the Pennsylvania side, when you go to that quadrant of that, it would show if there's a strong correlation to Milford or, you know, up up in that area. Yeah, to answer your question. >> Okay. Um, you also mentioned about
Pikatini. So, uh, that part of NJ15 also has a lot of heavy traffic also coming from Pennsylvania. Um, because that's how you get to Route 80, which is about a mile further south of Pikatini. >> So, what So, I I I know.
>> So, so that data reflects where you park your car for eight hours. >> Cars. that tour pings Florida and go to Pikatini. >> Ah, that's one. >> So the people that are commuting further on, they're accounted for when they ping in their local at their work parking
lot. And that's why I said we can see the one unfortunate or maybe fortunate person that commutes to Long Beach Island. >> Okay. Um, so what I'm trying to get at is the volume of cars that is on 15
currently and the Sparta section, the section of 15 that runs through Sparta. We are also getting drivers who are not residents, who aren't working in Sparta, but travel through Sparta in order to
get to Interstate 80. Yes. to get to Morris County to get out out of the county. So, >> we can make that determination as well. I could do a query for nonsparta traffic that passes through a zone that's set on
Route 15. >> I think that that would be a valuable bit of information because >> I was working on that analysis and um I didn't quite finish it >> because the data was weird. It does didn't reflect what I thought it would be. So, I have to rerun it. >> Thank you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can also tell from
accident reports who are actual Sparta residents and who are not. >> Yes. >> So, >> um >> can we go back >> just one second on the just to go back to the uh the Pine Terrace Northshore uh intersection that we were talking about?
I just wanted to give you a little bit of background on that is the reason it looks the way it does. Um probably about 25 years ago there was a collaboration between the county and and the lake. >> Okay. >> Um to to put it the the way it is, Pine
Terrace used to be basically an unused and and much smaller road >> and all the traffic came in and out on Northshore, >> right? >> The problem there was there was uh Route 181 at that time had two lanes going up the hill. I'm sorry, 517. two lanes
going up the hill, one lane coming down the hill, and there were a lot of rear end accidents there for people trying to make a left-hand turn on the Northshore. >> The reason it was move the um plane terrace was improved was to
because they needed the distance to be able to put a turn lane in >> because there's a turn lane up the hill that makes a left into where the preschool is over there. So again, it's a 25-year-old solution to a uh that took the worst accident
intersection in town to a to a much safer level. However, uh traffic volume has changed. Maybe there's maybe 25 years later that there is there is a better solution if you >> uh if you see it. And I know that as I said, Lakebach and the county did
cooperate on making that intersection safer. So I don't think it's completely off the table. >> Question. >> Thank you. >> And then this is >> Can I ask another question? Sure. Another intersection. Okay. Um if we
look at the intersection right now where we have um the shell station. So um there's a lot going on at that intersection. >> There's the shell station, the church, the pharmacy, and job all around the
intersection I'm talking about. >> And one of the big issues is we also have the senior, excuse me, right now. There's a traffic box that was installed there as well. So, the intersection itself and leading
up to it has a lot going on. Um, something that really own puzzle with me and I'm wondering if they they noticed anything in their review of this intersection only not all four of the lights have a
left turn arrow >> right >> so when you're coming up for example um you're coming up and the church would be on your left and the shell station would be on your right making that left is very difficult because you have limited
sight there's a hill coming from the other side. And I'm wondering if when you were reviewing it that stood out to you guys as well because I think taking the fact that there is the traffic there's people coming in and out um of the seniors if you left in or left out
and then you have these lights and it doesn't seem like it seems like all of them should have left turn signals. Um there's been a significant amount I'm sure um you would say as well there's been a significant amount of serious at that intersection as well.
>> Yes. >> You know, um so you could have left turn lanes without indicators. It's like a um a frugal way of getting the left turns out of the
way. Um because then if you have um a left turn lane arrow, uh then you have to you should provide green time for it. it's like split phasing and uh we'll look at that and um we'll see if there's
any recommendations to first as we said make sure the timing is right because when you go through that corer the lights have to work correctly and we want to we'll we'll check that to see if it works right >> as she's saying on that the when you're coming five 517 southbound from
>> Route 23 there is a left turn arrow and a delay on the traffic and other side however ever there isn't on the other side. So the people are going to try to make a left onto 181 and go down to 15. >> Uh could sometimes sit there through two
or three cycles of lights at >> not working right. >> Right. Just not working right. >> Right. >> So that's a neat that's a neat. >> So we'll look at that as well. So, two two of the lights have a left turn a delay and a left turn arrow and
the other two or three of them do, but one of them does not. I was just wondering if maybe you guys could take a look at that and we can get your >> Yeah, we'll look at that and um if the timing is not right, I usually reach out to the this is an NJ DOT intersection
and we'll reach out to the DOT to um have them refresh the timing because nine times out of 10 it does need attention when we when we raise the issue. >> Ryan, if I can, I just want to go back to what I was talking about before. I just don't want to lose lose track of
it. So a lot of these issues that we're talking about now and that we're highlighting the report are issues that exist today. >> Correct. >> So you know my concern is how can you help us develop goals and
objectives that are going to help us identify trends going down the road? you know, population trends, development trends that that that has us looking at are the roads as they exist today going to be sufficient 5 years from now, 10
years from now, 20 years is is far out. But I'm sure you've got some experience in terms of helping us to look at the right stuff directing us. So when it comes time to do the land use development, the ordinances, we've got the right teeth in there with the right criteria in there to ensure that we're
planning properly. And I was hoping it would go one step further and I've brought this up a couple of times. >> Let me just answer that. >> Ties right in, but go ahead. >> So then uh yes, when um our planning team come up with what would be a reasonable land development yield or
vision, then we go back. It's a re it's a feedback loop and then we'll make like we said before policy recommendations for this is what a a typical street with this kind of traffic should look like. I mean traffic volumes should have a
sidewalk. It should have um uh a green belt. It should provide for drainage uh and all the utilities that a modern road needs to provide. And so we provide a couple standard crosssections in the master plan that you can refer to. So
you say, well, like if a builder comes in, what kind of road do I have to build? It's in your ordinance, but it will also be in the master plan circulation element that this is the preferred parking one side like it's in the residential site improvement standards. It's nothing new, but we would refer to them and augment them if
as we have to for the specifics of Sparta think >> and you're not going to be able to go, you know, 20 years out and with real accuracy, but but I think the key is if there's a baseline there, >> then as part of the re-examinations, it's going to trigger, hey, we better look at this.
>> Yes. and and and forecast out a little better. Now we got clarity and you know it's five years out so look at the next five years. So all right. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Doesn't that get factored in when you're doing the master plan? They look at population trends. You I mean you could go back 20 years looking at what our
population was when last M or last master plan was see what was forecasted and compare the actuals now and kind of make some assumptions to do that as well. Correct. >> Yeah. And then you got to take into consideration some of the trends of
people moving out. So kind of >> and what's you know surrounding communities around us you know we we you know they could be developing twice at the speed we are but they're all passing through Sparta on Sparta's roads. >> Y so okay >> but taking that one step further too like what you know we were asking for is
I mentioned the PDRM2 zone which is down houses corner road that has a lot of vacant land. Um, and when some of those plots start to sell, what can go in there? What can our roads support? Rather than just like, oh, we're going to have more traffic and how are we
fixing it? How do we prevent the traffic? What are the best businesses to have there? How many more semi trucks can we put on that road? How many more box trucks can we put on that road? How many more dump trucks can we put on that road? And that will help us as we
develop that land use element to say, well, this we don't need, you know, certain size warehouses or maybe we need a data center or maybe we need something like that to really figure out where we could go. Um, what type of housing? What can we put there that the roads can
accommodate right now? >> We'll look at that as well. >> That's going to be part of like the overall vision. That's what I hear. as Luke as Luke and Lindsay's team develop scenarios for buildout development. Like I said, it back feeds into what I'm
doing and we'll say that, you know, although they want although the vision is to support some sort of exand use, this kind of investment needs to be put into your road infrastructure to make it work. >> But if it can't be put in just because of volume and everything else, then we
backend it and say, "Well, these are the only businesses we can support here. Right. >> So, you know, um developers are very creative and if they need to erase four or five roads to make it work, that is we've seen that before.
>> Erased four or five roads. What I'm saying is that if there's a zone and if you if there's the uh the development team that has a wherewithal to present their vision that's palatable to a town the the the roads are not would
determine the development pattern. Right? So I can't say to you that because it's this is the road grid you have and you have a maximum buildout this is all you can build >> which is what you're I think that's what you're saying
>> what is the best use for the properties that we do have best use scenario >> right so like I said I don't know the future to that extent because you can aggregate property like from what I'm seeing right I'm seeing that land in New
Jersey is getting so valuable It's it's it's not like years ago if a site was contaminated no one touched it. >> Right now it's just a cost of doing business. So I see that evolving the marketplace. So what I think is um
something that would inhibit growth. I don't know that you know I don't know that >> inhibit but just the right types of growth. >> Understood. >> This goes back a little you know because of the density of the state overall. Even though we're rural, you you can't just look at Sparta. You really need to
look in a more regionalized scenario. You know, to piggyback off what you're saying, Joan, you know, based on what our inventory is today, what's the highest and best use, what our roads can support, we still have to factor in what's going on upstream andor
west of us, >> northwest of us to see what is impacting us and what they're doing. If that town's growing at a faster rate, they got more development. They're opening up. They're building affordable housing like jack rabbits up there, so be it. It's coming through. We're getting hit
with that. So, it's the forest through the trees scenario. We got to I I guess Brian, you look at kind of a a radius to support or at least factor that. Well then, um to answer your question, yes, because uh the planning team looks at
the other master plans in the area and their their zones and to see what the adjacent yields could be. And we're, you know, we're aware of that in the in the master plan report. >> Okay. >> So, here's the one >> place I'm going to pull back a little
bit. Um you can't fix everything as part of this master plan. It it would be too cost prohibitive. So, so you know, I think what we're we're looking at is help us help guide us as to where we should be looking and what we should be
looking at, but not fixing the problems per se. That be could be done off the master plan. That could be done by by the township or or you know, maybe there's some that are so big we want to address it, but you can't fix everything as part of this document. So just help help guide us in terms of what should be
look what should we be looking at and how can we help use that information for planning. >> Correct. And and in this circulation element um the township did want an element of the nuts and bolts of intersections. Most circulation elements don't have that but we did do it because it was
part of the proposal process. >> How how many circulation plans have you done in Sussex County? Uh, this is my first >> first for Sussex County. >> Yes. >> Nearby counties? >> Uh, Bergen. I did a couple.
>> You were involved with the Medallands. That's a regional, right? >> Yes. Yes. >> Don't sell yourself short. >> Oh, no. I wasn't saying that. I was suggesting that we're a very different animal than the Medallands. >> Yeah. Brian's a recognized expert in the
area. he's been qualified as an expert in transportation. So, uh, >> yep. >> No, we uh looking at Sparta, it is a unique township. It really is. >> I'd like to uh at this point give the
public the opportunity to to comment. Um, just because of the hour, I am going to ask that if you have a generic general question, if you can just like keep them as brief as possible. If you have something specific, you can feel free to email me.
I will get that information to Brian. I will get that information back from Brian and send it to you. Um, but yeah, I would like to to kind of keep things as brief as possible. But if you can limit yourself to comments as opposed to questions, that would be great. But if you do have questions or detailed questions, just please email me and I'll
make sure that that Brian gets you answers. But feel free to comment. Just just understand that this is a draft and that it's a work in progress. >> Hi, I'm Beth Broadick. My road failed. I'm on Northshore. Um, quick question.
Ernie, who's not here, alluded to the road changes back at the beginning of the 20 like 25 years ago? Were those the re were the recommendations made from the county considered because they
address Pine Terrace? And I could do rapid fired questions if you want cuz that's what I'm used to. Also, this is more for Mr. Aendola. Do you have a total number of vehicles that were on Northshore and Pine Terrace?
>> Uh, I can do the math, but I don't have it in front of me. >> Okay. Okay, cuz the last count I have is from April of 2022, there were 11,74 vehicles on Northshore Trail every 6 and 1/2 days. >> Okay. >> And then um actually, you know what, because I'm kind of aggravated, do you know has Lake
Mohawk reached out to you? Has this is this information going to be sent to Lake Mohawk? And the reason I asked that is I've been in touch with Lake Mohawk, the town, the planning board, and the county. Mr. Zep said that it was a Lake Mohawk problem, not a Sparta problem.
Lake Mohawk is saying that it's Lake Mohawk town and county. I live and so do other people in this room live on the worst road included in there and we're kind of getting shut out. So, I'd like
to make sure that since we have an opportunity to address as as address it that we are because it touches a county road and also how does title 39 count to this because we pay the township of Sparta to ensure our safety and to say
that it's a Lake Mohawk problem and I'm not saying that's the intent but if it's a Lake Mohawk road and a private road where are we at since we pay the town to police our roads and keep us safe? And last thing is just as an aside, Lake
Mohawk is about 99 years old cuz our centennial is coming up in next year. I think that that puts time frame in. And Barrier, you touched on this. The roads are private. All but eight of the 25 miles of road in Lake Mohawk are private
roads. There are eight on the east side. But that does not mean that because it's a private road that Pine Terrace cannot be addressed because we now have what is it? Eight kids under the age of 10 on our road. There's a bunch of kids. We
have a whole lot of seniors. I was at Hospital for Special Surgery today because I almost got run over on my road and now need surgery. So, it kind of bothers me when I'm getting bounced all over creation and I hear, "Well, don't turn off Pine Terrace because all of the roads that are going from 517
up to Woodport Road and CVS are now going to be on the other roads. I can't get out of my road from 2:30 in the afternoon until 6:30 at night because Reverend Brown lets his traffic out. Pope John lets his traffic out at roughly 2:30 to 2:40. Then I get all of
the 517 traffic. I cannot turn in or out of my driveway 5 days a week in that time span. That's not fair. >> I wasn't suggesting I'm just putting that shouldn't that >> I know you mentioned don't don't do anything to pine terrace and I'll pull the minutes when they're done. Um but I
just want to make sure that the whole board knows >> that we live on this road. This is not well it's a Lake Mohawk problem. That's number one. Number two, it's documented. Is the information going to be sent to Lake Mohawk so that Lake Mohawk can
finally be a pro part of the process? And what I can tell you is that right now we have a liaison to the town council sitting with us. that liaison to the town council can communicate with the other council members and the liaison to Lake Mohawk can bring this
information to them and hopefully they will address it in kind and we can all this is what I was saying before in terms of being able to sit down together and come up with with collective solutions and being able to give us the tools that that we need in order to be able to
>> I appreciate it because I have a list that addresses Northshore including making Pine Terrace a culde-sac because again that's our home. The other thing to remember too is that Lake Mohawk makes up 40% of Sparta.
So I think that this really needs to be addressed from both a town level and from a Lake Mohawk level. Instead of saying, "Well, all but eight of the roads are Lake Mohawk roads. That's a Lake Mohawk problem." Jim Zep stood right over here a couple weeks ago and said, "Well, that's a Lake Mohawk road.
That's a Lake Mohawk problem. Spart is not going to do anything about it. The now current mayor also said, "Well, if there's a problem with Northshore, it's not going to be addressed as a one-off. You have to take it to the lake." So, I think that we need to make sure that as taxpayers and residents of Sparta, the
people in Lake Mohawk, including the people that live on the road that got a big fat F and have 3,200 cars cutting through or going through, I don't want to say cut through. We need to be included in the solution. And if it's the planning board or the town council
or some somebody needs to step up, be a grown-up and hold Lake Mohawk accountable. I appreciate what you guys have done. I appreciate that, you know, we have been included in all of this, but we are in a position now where we have documentation that says,
"Hey, we have a problem from Northshore to West Shore. We're looking at Westshore, but what who who's going to be accountable for addressing it? Is it the police department that has to enforce the 4-tonon weight restriction and everything else? Are we looking at enforcing the trespassing that we all
know is going on because you're people are going from Newton down west down Northshore. They don't want to go down Southshore because that's where the Reverend Brown pickup and drop off is on Southshore and up to CVS. We all know it's going through. We don't have 11,000
cars justifiably that need to be on Northshore every 6 and 1/2 days. We don't need the liquor factory and their box truck practically running me over. We don't need the Pepsi truck almost taking the wires out and has trouble maintaining a lane like a travel lane. I
Celeste, I sent you the video so you know that I'm not making it up. >> I >> But if we could please address this and >> I have a quick question. What's What's the goal after tonight? Is this This is a draft preliminary draft document, right? >> Correct. This is not going on any
websites or or is it being released? I mean, it's being recorded. It's being presented in a in a public meeting here. So, >> it's being presented in a draft form to get additional information which he's which Brian is collecting and Luke is is taking advanced notes and that'll be
incorporated once the master plan it's in in its entirety is >> brought to and I will take it back to town council and the liaison to Lake Mohawk. I think Brian touched upon this earlier. This is going to be a a larger collaboration
>> with state, county, >> township. I'm glad going into it because I don't know if you've been around for all of it, but I've been Rob and I have been at this for over six years >> with trying to get traffic addressed. One last question I have and I don't
know if this is possible or not based on the technology with the cars that are going onto Northshore. Are you able to see are they just going from Sparta Avenue to somewhere else in Sparta or they staying within Lake Mohawk? Because that's going to determine if it's a
cutthrough situation or if it's somebody that has legitimate business in Lake Mohawk. >> Well, I don't know about legitimacy, but I can say that I can determine what cars are local based and what are pass through based like we talked about Route 15 and I could run that analysis.
>> Okay. The reason I ask again is if they are if somebody's coming from Andover and going to Crows for dinner, I can't stop it. But if they're going from Andover over to Burger and Butcher and they don't live in Lake Mohawk, that's a cutthrough situation. And that was something that Lake Mohawk would have to
address. >> Yeah, we can get that information. >> To go just a little bit further, can you break it out by trucks versus cars? >> Don't know, but I'll find out >> because then we can I don't know. Maybe there should be like limits on no trucks. Well, there's a four time weight restriction for people. >> Maybe there should just be no trucks.
>> I would be on board, too. >> I would be on board with that. If it's no, if they don't have business in Lake Mohawk, they shouldn't be on >> the roads on the um west side of the lake. >> They're supposed to be coming in the back gate. So, maybe the data will help to drive that decision- making.
>> I'd be on board with that. Beth, >> I'll email you the rest of my stuff because, you know, I could be up here all night. >> Yes, I appreciate it. in case anybody else wants uh wants to speak. >> Rob Autoto uh Northshore Trail. Um so I'll try to be quick. Uh just a few
things when you're looking at the traffic info. Um I've I've gone through different um options for Northshore Trail, Upper Lake. Upper Lake is the lake between Northshore Trail and Southshore Trail uh with Newton Sparta
Road that runs along it. So um one of the ideas I had heard is to make Northshore Trail one way, Southshore Trail one way. Um I also had a neighbor that was going to give land away to increase sight lines,
but then an engineer said that's a terrible idea because it'll embolden traffic to go faster on the road. So, uh I think the one way and the improving sight lines is probably a good thing to consider if if you are going to take
some time to consider this because uh it could probably get a lot worse. It's pretty bad now, but it could get a lot worse. And yes, even I've um almost been hit on that road numerous times. Uh but I don't I don't have a solution. The
other thing that I just want to put on the record is a a prior uh Sparta PD chief I believe had said that um Pine Terrace because there was a discussion about gating
Northshore Trail and Southshore Trail is basically the point to break the traffic pattern from Northshore Trail, Upper Lake through White Deer Plaza, which is also privately owned by the Hoa. Um, and that would work, but then I guess it's
disallowed because of probably Ernie, you would know better. Uh, Newton Sparta Road, the the road adjacent to it, you can't cut off the flow of traffic. But then it was pointed out, you have Pine Terrace in
between Northshore Trail, but then as Beer get brought up, but then you have Northshore Trail going straight forward. It was probably an issue with queuing of vehicles at a at a gate, >> you know, and having them back up onto >> Yeah. >> 517. Maybe that was what the issue was.
I don't I don't know. I wasn't involved. >> So, I know that the school mentioned, Reverend Brown, there's a lot of queuing up all the way to West Trail on Southshore Trail. Um, it is what it is. Uh, and then the other thing just as the traffic expert is looking at this, we're
not uh sewer, we're a septic um community. So if we were to, you know, going to Mr. Sylvester's point, I don't think anyone's going to be in favor of deeding the road over and making it public, even though I don't think Sparta
would want it. Um, it's substandard all along uh the majority of its route. I've measured the the width on Southshore Trail all along it and Northshore Trail and Pine Terrace. It's substandard. So, you would need to widen it, but then you
would cut into people's front yards and their septic field. So, I think it's a non-starter >> and increasing speeds. >> Yeah. And and what would that do? So, I mean, uh, yeah, I just want to get that on the record so that you don't spin your
wheels thinking that we have sewer systems or anything. We're don't have that technology. >> Can Can I try something just as a followup to that and I'll I'll try to be brief. So, on this one is just again looking at the master plan. I'm not sure
the master plan and the budgets support it warrant gives us the the the means to go fix these issues. No, >> we looked at the when I look at the existing master plan, it talks about problems that we had such as uh vertical alignment, horizontal alignment, line
and sight issues. And one of the goals was to look at these on a periodic basis and make recommendations. And I think that's I think the thing the roads and the places you're saying they're good recommendations, but I don't think the expectations should be that this master plan is going to fix that problem.
>> Very good point. >> Excuse me. My name is Florence Slack and I live on the intersection of Pine Cone and Hunter Lane. I don't know if anybody's really considered that that section, but where I live right now,
it's like a connecting road between Stan Hope and Woodport Road. It's a very busy road because I guess it's a main connecting road between Stan Hope and Woodport. >> But we get lots of construction trucks.
We get everything. construction trucks, you know, all kinds of trucks in general, cars, motorcycles, school buses, but it just seems to have a a lot of traffic for one road. So, I don't know if there's anything that can be
done with that, but I'm just throwing it out there that it's a very very busy road. So, just consider it if you're doing a plan of any kind. So, all right. Thank you. You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Good evening, Kathy Ebincen
Florida. No, don't mind the peanut gallery, right? Um, so I want to thank you, Mr. Dave, for pointing out how the master b master plan is more bigger picture, right? I hear a lot of discussion today about
very specific issues. Um, and I would hope to see what's being discussed here become part of the goals that are included where um, we're considering building as a, you know, and development as a bigger picture, defending and
protecting our town against developments that would cause level of service to degrade to the point where our town is not transversible, right? Um, how does this data support those goals? That's what I'm missing here in this discussion
today. And maybe it's because that isn't really ready yet, right? But I didn't come here thinking today would be so granular. So I'm glad to hear that there'll be additional discussion about how this plays into the goals for the
master plan. Um when is that expected to happen where this data gets turned into um more goals around traffic as Mr. Deu pointed out? Excuse me. The way that that um that the
timeline has been put together is that each element that we're working on is going to get presented on high level and discussed. Then the master plan in its entirety in draft will come out and we'll have a hearing on that. Once that
happens, you'll see a more cohesive product where the connectivity is between, as Joan was mentioning before, in terms of what the land use looks like versus circulation versus sustainability and and how all of that goes together.
Right now, for for Mr. in Tindola. This is um for his particular element as much information gathering as it is um you know providing preliminary results from from the data that's been collected so far. Right? So this is um it's granular
because this is the nuts and bolts. this is the foundation of of what we're looking at so that we can build up from here and say, "Okay, we've got a higher level of of um
sighteline issues than we do of um of uh transportation issues. So, let's focus on, you know, this particular goal and objective and this is how you can, you know, fix those areas." I mean, Mr. Mr. Dadola, correct me if I'm wrong, but
that that's that was my understanding of the intent. >> Right. So, um to reflect what the chairwoman has said that um the more macro look will be reflected when we get the other parts of the master plan together particularly the land use
element and it back feeds into the circulation element and then we can make uh those policy recommendations that reflects the vision of the land use element and the general master plan. >> Is that expected this year? Yes. >> Okay. >> The other thing I think it's important
when we look at all these problem areas and you know and you know and potential problem areas is that as as we have de have development sometimes we have an ability to to fix those within the development. And I to me the best
example is 20 years ago Smart Avenue was horrendous to try and travel between the the post office intersection and up where the Grand Union used to be. It was it was a lot of traffic. But then the the bypass came in and we built Town
Center Drive and we you know and that that development there was made to have a connecting road between the two that um you know I just think about the times we've had problems with the Route 15 bridge >> where we could detour instead of having
the complete all of Main Street closed and you know or not even having a way to get there. You'd have to go >> if the bypass wasn't there you'd have to go East Mountain Road down Glenn Road you know. So >> as we when we see there's um problem areas, if we see development where we
can put more connector roads in that aren't through residential areas, they're through commercial areas, that's that's better, you know. So that I think that's a a part of why we look at the the problems and see if you know in the future we can solve them within the
approval process. And I assume those uh corrections, if you will, were made because there was a higher level goal in play that said something to the effect that you just described. Is that fair? >> Yeah, it's I mean it's it's part of the it's part of the process, part of the uh
you know uh if if we can identify problem areas, we can keep them in mind >> going forward when we get when we get developments, you know, and say, you know, all right, we're not going to let you just build into here. We're going to have you you're going to have to connect to another road too and we'll give we'll
give better circulation. >> And I also want to add to that that the master plan even if it tried to address all these problems does not solve these problems, right? What solves these problems or putting ordinances in place and and having the the you know the the
council weigh in on certain things and put together programs and put you know put forward financing to to put in the fixes that are required. So, even though we are, you know, we're pinpointing and and we're um we're looking at at
strategies, we're we're advising the council of what needs to be done and we're counting on them to uh to carry the football across the line. >> Sure. I understand what the work that's being done here isn't ordinances, but I would hope that the goals that are
uncovered here, relayed here, do help shape those ordinances. And to Mr. 's point, it has to be enough to be able to give a teeth in an ordinance, right? >> That's the intention. >> Yeah. We're going to have to break it down into short-term goals, maybe one to
three year, three to five year, and start to prioritize what needs to be done because it all can't be done at the same time. But I wanted to bring one other thing up and that is um that the circulation element is not a required element for a master plan but we chose
to do it because we know it is an issue here. So we contracted and spent the money to have that piece done but then we went further to do the vision piece of it so that we can look at the future and tie it back into the land use. And then we went further and said let's do
eight intersections or whatever rather than the force. So, not required, but we are taking it seriously and looking at it and try to expand it as much as we can. >> And that's great. And because of all that extra effort, I'm hoping that something tangible, >> actionable,
>> um, to your point about it being an issue actually comes out of it, right? As opposed to just saying, oh, we did a little extra data collection, but then nothing is changing, >> right? That's why I want to see the recommendations for the um, best uses, >> right?
Uh Mr. Antendola, you mentioned that 10 nodes were surveyed. Um and Miss Ferman, you just uh recalled that as well. Um but the level of service was not calculated for only for for five of
them. Um I I find it strange that we wouldn't calculate level of service at places where there's uh traffic lights because um maybe in a a data perspective, right? When you're analyzing it, it makes sense that, you
know, if it's on a timer, it should be okay. But Mr. Sylvester, as you pointed out, it's mostly not, right? So that actually becomes a factor if most of the time, as you mentioned, it's not timed
properly. So when you don't have a level of service for those lights, you're actually cutting out a big piece of data in my opinion because those level of service could be DRF, but they're not recalled here. They're not
mentioned here. Just because the fact that there's a light at an intersection doesn't give it shouldn't give it a pass in my opinion. Right? Because you're missing that piece of it. You're just assuming, oh, it's got a light. Oh, maybe it's an A or B. Like, that's not I don't think that's a fair ass assumption or assessment.
>> That's not how I characterized it. That I was assuming that it was A or B. What I said >> No, that's my characterization. >> I'm I'm Well, you're you're purporting that I said that and I did not say that. What I did say is that we didn't do the levels of service at the signalized
intersections because we believe that if there are issues at a traffic signal, most of the times it is because it's out of sync because of power failure and whatnot. And that is what we presented on the record. >> And I assume that assumption I'm
suggesting is flawed >> and that is your opinion and I appreciate it. >> Show the data is all I'm asking. If you're that's your assumption, show the data. The data will prove it out. If the level of service is great, then great, but show the data so everybody can see
that is my point. >> That was our position that we know that the signals should be designed or fairly recent on those runs and if the timing is as planned, they should be operating as planned.
>> But should is not reality. Should is an assertion. Should isn't data, right? should is just that you're asserting it should. Well, if you're you have all this great data here, show the data for those intersections as well as my
request. I guess as Chris Quinn pointed out, there's no arrow turning on from um 517. So, like if you looked at the timing for that and not I'm sure we've all sat there for several lights and maybe that kind of information would pop up when you're looking at it and make a
recommendation to put in an arrow. We want the full picture. That's right. Agree. All right. Um, sorry, I have a bunch of of notes here. I just want to run through. Um, you had mentioned, Mr. Antendola, about um,
state uh, I would say crash data that was mentioned um, previously. How does that align to the report that uh Sparta Chief McCarrick published in terms of the Sparta Police Department? >> Are you aware of that report?
>> I think we looked at it and we had um I think the data we got was uh up through to 2025. So it was more recent. Uh but we can look at that as well. I do not >> you included that data as well. Oh, you have >> no we use the data that is recorded by
the um state police system which is also fed here like the traffic reports that the accident sorry the crash reports that are generated here make their way to the state safety voyager database >> there's a lot of commonality in the in the reports
>> so you're assuming they're aligned is that >> yeah I mean that's a fair assumption the reporting is the same sometimes like a parking lot fender bender like like in the like in the at the um stop and shop may not be reported, you know, in the state system, it's because it's below
the threshold that or they don't want to report it, you know, but it doesn't account for that. >> I only asked because when you talked about North Village, it felt like the amount of um crash data you reported felt low to me based on what I thought I heard previously. So, I would just ask
that that be included as well if it hasn't been already. Um, I want to re uh touch on again um what Burgett mentioned that your report doesn't seem to touch on pass through data, right? I
I don't I'm not sure why your report is only focused on people who live in Sparta, right? From the data perspective, what you presented tonight was okay, it's within the township, but you're only focused, it seems, on people who live originate in the township and
return to the township. Um, again, I would ask that. I think that's a fair, you know, I think you're missing a lot of data there. Um, which would affect level of service, would affect traffic counts, things like that. Um, if you're only, you know, limiting your your data
to folks that are are living in Sparta. No, that um just to correct that um >> the traffic data reflects globally. It doesn't matter where you're from. It was like when we did where people work that originate from Sparta, that is Sparta
data. So, but it doesn't it doesn't subtract from the overall traffic volumes that we're reporting because that is a entirely different data set. >> Okay. So then what was the purpose of focusing on folks that are originating in Sparta?
>> We just want to see where the work patterns are uh from Sparta to work and that's typical >> relevant to your data. >> It's relevant for figuring out pathways to work, whether there's a need for warm mass transit, things of that nature. So
I believe it's relevant in pretty much most master plan circulation I've seen. the journey to work data is uh addressed or at least uh put in topically. >> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. Anyone else?
No. Okay. Seeing none, we have a lot more work to do. >> Yes, we know. We know there is work to do, but thank you. >> Very good. Thank you, Brian. >> Appreciate all the I appreciate your time. >> We appreciate the presentation and the time. >> I I really do. Um you guys are
volunteers and I I appreciate you spending the evening with me. >> Dave, did you have any comments? He's been sitting there so quietly. >> That's all right. Uh I I just have two things. Number one, uh I live up in
Wanage and if you go to Middletown, they do have a couple roundabouts that they've constructed recently. Yes. If you wanted to experience one going up towards the the mall in that area. And number two, uh I probably should get this over to Brian if it's all right
with the board. Probably about 354 years ago, Harold Pelo worked on some plans on Route 15 to extend it from where the four lanes end now northwards towards Lafayette and going all the way to Tuttles Corner over in Sanderson.
>> So, I'd be happy to share that information uh with you. It might be helpful just to see what some of the thought processes were at that time. >> So, I can get that for you. >> That'd be great. Thank you. >> That' be great. Okay. All right.
>> All right. Thank you again, Brian. >> Okay. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. >> All right. We're going to move forward with updates. Going to start with town council. Deputy mayor. >> Yes. Very briefly, um we are looking at
um the class 2 position being filled on not the upcoming council meeting but the following one which I think is earmarked March give me a second March 10th meeting. So
hopefully we'll have some good news and that position will be filled. And I will just make note I will carry this information to council to the uh lake mohawk leaison as well. All right. Nothing else to
report. >> Thank you. >> We did have the one other thing under board business that you just brought up and that is about the alternate voting that needed to come back and a decision be made today. Yeah, I'm I am not prepared to give a decision today because I don't want to
speculate uh to be candid with you. Hopefully, the class 2 position will be filled. Uh let's say it's not filled and we have a hearing and the vote is 80. It's a a mute issue. Again, I don't want to speculate as to the opinion one way
or the other, but if it is a 44 vote, I will give my opinion at that time. Again, I don't want to speculate as to where we are. >> What do you But what do you mean by speculation? Um, we have eight board members here. Eight regular board members.
>> We have a quorum. Correct. >> I am I am not judge and jury. I am your counsel to the board. >> So, what is your best advice? >> My best advice is let's go day by day. Let's see if the applicant is an issue or not. It could be a a mute mute issue
and therefore there are other opinions that were made by the uh burough attorney, the township attorney consulting with the board of adjustment attorney, myself. Uh so those opinions as far as administrative roles sparred
ordinance uh that the alternates have been permitted to vote in the past. Uh that's a past practice. So we're continue with that. as far as the Municipal Land Use Act and an applicant comes forward. Let's say I'm representing a developer and uh the board attorney would say, "We have eight
members. We're short one. Do you want to go forward or uh do you want the alternate to to uh uh be able to vote?" Now, the problem with that analysis is someone in the public could still object uh saying the Municipal Land Use Act and
that Mercer case that was brought to our attention. So for if it was a law school exam, it's a great question. Uh the A answer is what everyone's identifying. Uh I'm just not in a position right now. I'm more in the professor position
saying that I see the issue. I understand the issue. I acknowledge the issue. Uh but there's no need for me to give an opinion that could be challenged uh as speculative. If there are facts before us of which a ruling needs to be made, I will make that ruling. Hopefully
I don't have to make the ruling because the class two member will be appointed. That's my opinion. >> Mr. Purr, if I can't, you know, um I don't know when the next applicant is coming in front of us. I don't know if it'll be before or after the appointment. Um, I just just want to say
that if we do get there without an appointment and sounds like that's a low risk right now, um, we're going to need to really look to you for guidance on this and and you >> I am fully prep I am fully prepared. >> Okay. >> I just don't want to speculate at this
time. >> All right. Thank you. >> And to answer your question, Ron, right now, um, we have two applications that are still in the completeness process. One is anticipated to be complete on the 2nd. The second one is on the 9th so of March. So the earliest that we're going
to get something is going to be that second meeting in in March. >> Sounds like the cycle is going to work great. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So we are going to move on to the environmental commission update. Miss Dunmar. >> Yes. Thank thank you. So um I was not
present at this meeting. However, I would like to convey that we are still working on a sustainable Jersey uh grant and this is for the environmental resource inventory. This also like the
circulation plan is not required but it is highly recommended to be a part of the master plan. Um, and it acts, as I mentioned before, as a foundation for crucial legal, defensible land use
decisions, especially in New Jersey, and it's data driven. So, we're hoping to get funding for that. Okay. And then, um, we're working on finding a good model for a data center ordinance for
Sparta. We're still working on that. And we are concerned about um of course the Sparta wild um um management plan on Sparta Mountain the wildlife management
plan and we feel that it needs to be drastically improved and um as we heard from our speakers um Dr. Wander and Dr. Devito just recently last year um that there's just so much damage to
the area with the water and the wildlife from the logging operation that's going on there. So that was a a new uh concern that we re that they revisited at the last meeting from what I understand. >> You're welcome.
>> Quick question. Any update on on Earth Day? >> Well, um We are going forward uh with the Earth Day and it will be on the 25th of April. Um it's planned for um I think
11:00 to 3:00 after the cleanup, which is earlier in the morning, which kind of presents a an unfortunate dilemma for the members of the environmental commission because we wanted to participate in the cleanup, but we will be here trying to set that up and
organize the tables and and everything. So, um then maybe we'll have a a fall cleanup, you know, in instead. But yes, um we're moving forward and we have the permissions for for having our um event
out in front of the municipal building. Awesome. >> Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on to subcommittee updates. Uh I will start with master plan subcommittee. This evening's meeting actually went reasonably well. We only had one
application for a new tenant and sign that was approved. We're still in the process of putting together our our format. Um, in terms of uh putting together memos and and how we
um memorialize this information um trying to uh take some of what was done prior to COVID and some of the new things that have been put together by um the previous subcommittee. Um, but that's a work in progress and I'm sure we'll we'll get there. Um, moving on to
master plan subcommittee. The subcommittee had its meeting, excuse me. Um, and the focus was the uh was a presentation the initial presentation from Mr. Inendola on on the traffic on
the circulation element. Um, where the subcommittee was capable of weighing in on that scenario. Um, also there's been some conversation um that's been ongoing in the last few subcommittee meetings regarding how and
when um data can and should be presented to to the board. Um, and I kind of wanted to open it up to the board for um for that kind of discussion. The thought process there I mean there are two schools of thought and and I and I I can
understand both. one being um there may not always be an opportunity to get something on the board's agenda effectively which may um styy the timeline for the master plan. So I I can understand that. So a thought process might be to provide all of the data to
you know the uh to the board in one lump sum toward the end as the subcommittee is completing its processes. Um the other uh school of thought is that we continue on the process that we're we're in right now where we take that highle
information, do a highle presentation, get the board's opinion so that when the draft is complete, it's a little bit more digestible. It's a little bit easier to move through um instead of trying to to kind of pull all of the uh
all of the data in um in together at at one shot. So, what I would like to do is kind of start with Burgett, if you don't mind, and just um have you weigh in on on your thoughts on on that particular subject.
Well, given how much discussion one short segment that wasn't even required, >> right, >> you know, generated. Um, and there's a lot of expertise on this panel. People look at things differently.
uh people think about things differently. I could not imagine having that same level of discussion or the same quality of discussion if I was just handed a big document um
all at once. I would just find that overwhelming to to digest. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Kind of feel the same way. Um, if the board felt like we want to see the whole document as one piece, I'm
okay with that as well. But when that presentation comes, >> how you know what is it going to be? Multiple meetings. So I get both schools thoughts. >> So So my my thought is I think it's
important that we we get the updates for a lot of reasons. um some that that Burgett mentioned, but but also again this massive plan is costing a lot of money. We don't want to get down to the end and have a disconnect between the subcommittee and I don't expect there
will be but between the subcommittee and and the board because then we just wasted a whole lot of money. So I think having in in uh in process reviews to the extent possible I think would be very helpful for everybody. I I I agree and I I'm not going to
restate that. I agree with all with uh both period and Ron on uh those those very same reasons. I I I don't want to look at 30,000 page document, you know, I'd rather see it as it as it comes and and
weigh in. >> Yeah. Agreed. For all the same reasons. >> Agreed. >> Agreed. But I'd also like to hear what the public might feel about this. You know, it's a lot to digest even today,
the details, right? Just from this one segment. >> So, and as time passes, your memory, you know, dwindles. So, so I think we need to take it um piece by piece and consider it carefully. >> Yeah.
>> I think the scenario you presented, I know you weren't at the last subcommittee meeting, but I think it was not the way you're presenting it because we did say we had no issues going forward with presenting pieces at a time
that are data driven like the circulation, like the population, like the land use. What we had issues with and we voted on was that we didn't want to send out the goals and objectives prematurely and that should wait till the end because we're going to be
developing pieces but we're still going to be getting new information. So you might develop a piece on circulation but then something else is going to come out later with the land use that you're going to have to tie together and we did not want to do the goals and objectives until they were completed. And so I I
still stand by that. No, I I understand that. I mean, in terms of what's being presented when we we were in agreement that goals that goals and objectives were likely going to be last because because it that's that's data driven. Um whether whether that but the what what
would be thought of in in the confines of each element were goals and objectives related to that element, right? Um >> I didn't quite understand that. What we don't want to do is goals and objectives for this element peace meal,
>> right? What Lindsay had had >> originally put together for us, right? Obviously, Brian is a different >> planner. what Lindsay had described for us that was that if she were going to put together the land use element for um
for presentation, she would have goals and objectives that were specific to land use available for us, not the overarching goals and objectives of the entirety of the document because those have to be driven by the data that's in the element which puts together the
goals and objectives for the element which feeds into the overarching goals and objectives for for the entirety of the town. That is the way Lindsay had explained it to us. Um but one way or another really that's not the the topic for discussion in terms of how that
happens. The topic for discussion right now is are we going to digest this in segments or are we going to digest this as as an entire entity? And I think what I've heard from the board um majority is
that that we're looking to do this in segments. But um but see that but that's what we said. But >> I'm sorry Joan I just think I just want to add I mean each of these segments are going to have uh these type of conversations right and then you're
going to you're going to have conflicts. You're going to have data gaps and it's this thing is going to be a a a living document that's going to be built right and I and getting the public's feedback throughout the stages I think is really beneficial to everybody. I'm not disagreeing
>> and there's great transparency here. One of the best things that I think we could have whether we agree or disagree on numbers and stats, at least there's collaboration here. It to your point if we got a 30,000page document and there was everybody was going left, right,
sideways on this. You you just wasted all the money to Ron's earlier. >> But that was not the issue. The issue was >> the goals >> as the final goals >> as Celeste just said when we finish land use we'll do land use goals but keep in mind we haven't heard the climate change
element yet so that's going to end up changing everybody's going to have target and we voted as a group to wait for the goals to be at the end but yes to hear all of the demographics to hear the land use to hear the circulation all the things we're doing that yes come
here so you don't have to look at it at once but >> everything's going a change and and some of the subcommittee members said, "I didn't sign up for this. Um, I'm a volunteer and I don't want to go back five times changing things. Let's just do it at once and hear the goals and
objectives, you know, at once." That was the thought process there. >> I don't think you could set goals and objectives without information and at least >> correct. Exactly. That's why we we all agreed that that goals and objectives >> there may be goals of one group may be
conflicted out by the other five or six segments. >> Exactly. >> So I think >> and that's all we were saying. So I don't think it was ever an issue of not looking at this other data. >> I think we're all saying the same thing. >> Yes, I think we are all finally agreeing
on the same thing. And also one one last thing in terms of in terms of process right I think you you and I have discussed this in terms of agreement right was so when the the subcommittee um the subcommittee's job is is to do the heavy lift is to to look at the data
compile the data do the work do the leg work um that the board doesn't really have the opportunity to do but what I would like to continue to do is bring matters of process matters of procedure matters of um of that that that define
how this continues to move forward to the board for the board's opinion because at the end of the day this is a board document and requires board you know input um which is which is what I'm going to continue to do and and I will convey that back to the subcommittee
because I mean I understand that subcommittee voting is is you know is a thought process but really it's more of a um a consensus rather than okay we voted now it's um really what happens in terms of process happens here with with all of us
together because it's it's a board document. Um but I just wanted to to to get that on the record as well. So moving forward, we are now to the portion uh which is open to the public for comments and matters not on the agenda and matters not related to a
hearing or an application. >> Yes. Because the next thing is adjournment. So if no one steps up to that microphone, >> I make a motion to object. >> Okay. Seeing no one, Ernie, you're on.
>> Motion to adjurnn. All right. >> Second. I >> I