livereamed on YouTube at www.youtube.comspartatwp The time is 7:02 and the meeting is now called to order Please note that no new business will be conducted after 9:30 and the meeting will end at 10 Today it'll probably be earlier Um I ask that you
stand and join the board as we pledge our nation's flag I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all Thank you We have a roll call please Janette Burke here Ernie Ragstead here Brian Zimmerman here Ron Day here Chairwoman Joan Ferman here Councilman Mark Scott here Robert Blekeley here Vice Chairman Robert Otto here Celeste
Luciano here Christine Dunar here Okay Thank you Um we're moving on to the approval of the minutes Uh it does state that the January 15 2025 minutes and the April 2nd 2025 minutes are uh in the packet However the uh April 2nd minutes
will be carried to May 7th They're not quite ready but the January 15th everybody should have in their packet and receive beforehand May I have a motion to approve the minutes i had some things I noticed Yeah first we'll get it on the table I did as well All right So
is there we need a motion i'll make that motion Okay A second Okay Now we can have discussion Go ahead Rob Page two uh Rossi is should be all caps R O SI It's the recreation open space um inventory
And then immediately following the trail recommendation around Morris Lake was removed due to protests Uh if you want to leave that you can but it subsequently talks about Eric Bernstein um from Newton expressing concern I think he was the lawyer for Newton So
just simply asking that we remove the proposed trail from Morris Lake So I don't know that it was protests It was just one lawyer representing Newton Um that's all I have for now Okay And Mark you said you had comments
Yes Just on page one Chairman Jones stated there will be a 30-day clause for all board professionals in their contracts I thought they would be like that there would be a 30 days termination clause
Okay Can add that Yes Anybody else have any comments on it i had a question on oh sorry page three um I don't remember uh minor site plan subcommittee that uh Joan Ferman said they would be forming a temporary
subcommittee is that temporary or No what I had meant then is this is going back to January when uh we just had a reorganization and we had not appointed any new members to the subcommittee uh Ron agreed to stay on and he has done
so through this date actually and um Brian is going to be replacing him and will be the newest member of the subcommittee So temporary just meant during that transition we didn't have um a formal committee but that probably is the wrong word Uh I think we could just
say that we were forming a new subcommittee Okay couple just one comment kind of goes throughout the the document You know when I look at what was voted on um typically what I'd like to see is who motioned it who second it and what the vote was Four to two You know
we all voted in favor Um when I go through the votes here um it's kind of a mixed bag on the way each one is stated Some has a motion that has a second without the first and not the vote So I I I think it would be important to go back and just for the record just go
back and look at each vote and say who motioned it who seconded it and what was the vote That actually wasn't one of my comments because I saw on the fourth page and had Joan um with no last name made a motion to come out of executive
session but there there's no listing of a second So we can find that Maybe these have to come back to us We make the suggestions and then we reapprove them at the next meeting I had one other um on page three open to the public for uh
each of the people listed It has their house where they live Uh but one woman expressed concerns about the impact on her property but I have no idea where the property is because her address is not listed Page three Um Yeah where it says open to
the public Well then I had something at the top of page three The NPS um NPS the variances and waiverss Does that include everything should it include everything because I think there was the should have two entrances and
exits and there were a few other details but then they end up in a resolution So I don't know how detailed you want to get Well these were the these are the minutes and what was discussed at the time and the resolution came later and um I'm trying to remember if this was
this was carried to the next meeting So that's where we talked about So in subsequent uh minutes you should see that and the resolution All right Anything else okay Then um as I suggested let's uh make the revisions and we'll vote on
these at the next meeting All right I would like to get some of the business out of the way before we go to uh the presentation that we have for tonight So if you would look down to the resolution section and uh planning board
application 25-728 stop and shop for resolution 20 25-12 Uh if somebody would make a motion to approve that resolution Yes Just real quickly uh uh this is the resolution
that was drafted uh memorializing the determination at that hearing Uh also in the uh audience is uh Alexander Morgan Stern uh from Gibbons He was kind enough to introduce himself Uh and there is no objection from the applicant as to the
uh resolution before you and it has also been signed off uh by the planner and board engineer Thank you Okay May I have a motion make a motion to approve resolution 25728 All right Now you may second I'll second
Thank you Roll call please Robert Blleley yes Janette Burke yes Ron Day yes Sledge Luciano yes Ernie Ragstead yes Councilman Mark Scott yes Christine Dunar yes Vice Chairman Rob Otto yes Chairwoman Joan Ferman Yes Motion has
passed Can we uh make any requite of the apple conditions but could I make a request chair go ahead Go ahead
I wish you brought this up before we voted but go ahead Let's go Yeah No I know Well uh we've just been talking about lighting standards and you guys would remember that I had asked the applicant about 3,000 Kelvin They agreed to everything One thing I didn't do
because I didn't want to make it a hardship was the monument signage Um and I believe they wanted to stick with ground lit and I just wanted to offer up a suggestion It's obviously it's the time has passed for no other bite of the
apple Um but uh there's a lot of ground lit uh monument uh around monuments around town and uh daffodils have come up It looks really beautiful but then you have these flood lights that are just sticking there They're shining up kind of sometimes not
in this case I don't think uh in driver's eyesight So I would just ask if at all possible they could consider uh implementing some lighting from above or goose necks onto the top above the
lettering Just a request Do you Yeah I would concur with that It also interferes with the wildlife the aven wildlife in the area insects bats and and such things having the flooding going up as well as the safety issue for
drivers All right So Mr Morgan Stern is is in the audience uh and uh he I'm sure can relate to his client the concern It is it's not a mandate but it's a suggestion Thank you Thanks And as a suggestion if
you do it um it doesn't mean coming back to us Correct Correct You know All right So that was just something you can implement on your own We'd be very grateful Thank you Thank you Thanks Thank you Okay Um while we're on that
though um I think we were talking about and it would be a good idea for the Environmental Commission to come up with some standards maybe four or five bullet points uh that we could add into language when it comes to lighting So yeah I mean I I could prepare something
Uh I wasn't sure how it works but we've kind of talked about just some simple common sense uh things that we could do where we could suggest that lighting uh should not exceed 3,000 Kelvin for obvious health and safety of both humans
and wildlife Uh we could suggest um just turning the lights off after the hours of operation We could suggest dimming just so that they the lights do the job that they're intended I know lighting bright lights are very cheap
nowadays But um you know this this would actually save applicants money Uh light pollution addressing light pollution I think is probably one of the easiest things that we could do And it um getting that kind of more amber light versus a a blinding blue white light uh
would really kind of be in keeping I think with the rural character of the town and just um it'll showcase the commercial businesses really well and you guys will save money Um am I missing anything besides just lighting controls
on off shading warm temperature 3,000 Kelvin or less usually it's 2,700 to 3,000 Yeah we had discussed that it would be um a transition you know when needed It wouldn't be that we would have this huge
budget item replacing you know all of the the the the lighting you know it would it would be phased in right so what I'm thinking and would suggest is the environmental commission gets a copy of each of the applications and has the opportunity to comment So when you
comment maybe just put in a those bullets and then we can incorporate that into our resolution And then in in future design standards if building new we incorporate that If repairing and you're replacing a fixture something we
can discuss Okay Thank you Okay Um we're at the public uh hearing portion of the agenda uh PB number 689 Diamond Ship Realy um they are on the application because uh
as a reason well I'll pass it to the attorney can explain it Yes Uh if you recall there is a pending lawsuit by Diamond uh Diamond Chip Realy uh Judge Minkowitz uh and his March 5th 2025
opinion uh as part of that ruling mandated that uh DCR could come back before the planning board subject to certain um requirements one we would be able to have the jurisdictional hearing whether or not uh it was proper for this
board Uh there was other issues that the application would be a new uh and there would also be new notice So the uh property owner has appealed that uh and they did timely appeal It is pending before the appellet division and uh
therefore it is listed on the agenda because it was a requirement of the uh superior court Again Judge Mikawitz uh we've complied with his requirement It's on here There is no action that needs to be done because
uh we have the correspondence from DCR with uh reflecting in uh March 20th 2025 and April 15 2025 in which they are uh not going to proceed before this
board until they have a determination by the division giving them direction Uh and I did speak to the attorney that we are not going to be carrying uh the matter on your agenda each month That's kind of silly because it may take months
for the appellet division to rule So it's clear from the applicant that uh they are not proceeding at this time based upon the repeal to the appellet division You have complied with what you need to do There is no application before you So there's no determination
you may need to make at this time And uh again the record is clear It's duly noted that you listed the matter and the applicant chose not to proceed at this time and to pursue their appellet rights So again u there's nothing to do This is
just uh completing your task and duty and informing the public of what is going on All of the letters and correspondence are on the website and uh I would like on the record that uh you were prepared to move forward We had the
representative of the uh board of adjustment uh present to make the quorum if need be Uh but again the applicant has chosen not to go forward That's it Thank you Excuse me Mr Porl can you for the record please note it's for the prom planning board Yes Well also for the
record just to be consistent because we had the similar situation last our last meeting with Firehouse Apartments and the board um voted to not carry it I'd like to do the same thing but that would mean recusing everybody for about two
minutes so that our diamond chip board could vote on it That is a good idea I have no objection to that Why don't we do that those who have a conflict if you would respectfully just and I apologize to the public it's just formality If those individuals have a conflict on the
DCR matter if you would just step down to the uh regular audience we'll take our vote and then uh we can proceed There's no need to leave the uh you don't have to leave uh the public forum
Excuse me Mr Porro Should we call the actual prompt planning board meeting we need a roll call Yes please A roll call Yes Robert Blakeley Yes Ernie Ragst here Brian Zimmerman here Ken Lori here
Chairwoman Joan Ferman here All right So gang the uh issue before you as the chair had said the uh our practice has now been when there's a request for an adjournment we make a formal requirement If you look at the letters of the applicant even though
he used the word agend adjournment uh the attorney does recognize that it may take some time for the appellet division to make a determination And also in that letter the attorney for DCR also recognized that he would have to give new notice So therefore there is no need
to carry uh the matter on your agenda each month So there uh uh the vote is that the this board is determining not to carry it uh the DCR matter on an
adjournment request but to await the appellet court decision of direction That is if someone would move that motion Okay Motion please I move that motion Mr Porro second I'll second that motion Okay Um
roll call please Robert Blakeley yes Bernie Ragstad yes Brian Zimmerman yes Chairwoman John Ferman yes Ken Lori yes All right Thank you Motion passed and uh board may return Yeah Resume right
And thank you for Yeah You're welcome Mr Yeah I'll see you Thanks Okay now we get to the fun part of the agenda why I think most of you are here and that is to um have a presentation of the master plan committee's um the
survey And I'd like to invite the members who serve on the master plan to come up and join us We have the table over here Don't be shy Wait a minute have to go back
You need some cream So I'd like to formally welcome uh members of the town council the environmental commission Um who else was invited and the public of course So uh welcome and I'd just like
to introduce the members Uh there are four members of the planning board who that have served on the master plan subcommittee Uh in addition to myself there's Celeste Luciano Um Brian Zimmerman Ronda Day and uh then
we have uh from Environmental Commission Neil Sour Wine Christine White House Christy White House Um from the public we have Ken Lori representing the zoning board as chair Mike Divine Brian Romanowski and Jenny Derek's hiding back
there Um so they'll all be here Oh and Dean representing town council and uh they'll be up here to help answer any questions that you may have So welcome And Lindsay Knight is going to do the presentation Presentation or planner from Neglia
All right All right Good evening To have screens here Um so we'll jump right into the results from the survey No just for the record we have Lindseay Knight our professional planner from
Neglia Engineering Thank you So the survey was available from October 1st 2024 to November 14th 2024 And um we received a total response um number of 1,62 people which um in my experience is
a very large number for responses So that was really nice Um not all municipalities have that type of engagement So um just wanted to note that that for the sake of the master plan that was incredibly helpful So all those who participated we're very grateful Um and of those who
participated it was obviously an overwhelming amount of residents Over 1,000 residents participated And as you can see it went down to business owners people who worked visitors employees of the township and
other or just no responses Um so one of the first questions was "What is your favorite thing about Sparta?" Um this graphic will display in larger fonts uh the more prevalent responses and as they get smaller um
they show as they were not uh responded to us frequently This was an open-ended question Um so as you can see from the graphic Lake Mohawk and White Deer Plaza were two of the biggest responses that we got But as you start going around the graphic you can see there is a number of other things um such as the country feel
tranquility a lot of responses about how beautiful um Sparta is the small town feeling the environment um different qualities such as neighborhoods green spaces quaint um their hometown We got a lot of responses saying the library
which was which was nice to see as well Um so next question after we talked about the good we wanted to get into the bad and what was the thing that people wanted to see improve the most in Sparta and traffic became the uh strongest trend that we saw in this question Next
it was followed by limited development preserve land uh more community facilities We saw things like outdoor recreational spaces dog parks splash pads Um we also saw a lot of interest in walkability not just through the
downtown but making connections from town center to the downtown more sidewalks bike lanes things like that that made it easier to make those connections throughout the town Um we also saw a lot of more diverse shopping and dining A lot of people emphasized they wanted to see a lot of small
businesses unique businesses less chains um things that were kind of special to Sparta And then finally at the bottom we saw adaptive reuse um which I kind of cup together with redevelopment rehabilitation and that is kind of
reusing the spaces in the buildings that already exist that maybe have been underutilized and finding new uses for them Next we went through kind of the characteristics of the people responding and um why you chose to live here So we
went through a number of questions The first was growing up in Sparta So you'll kind of get an idea of why people are living here Um growing up in Sparta not many people found that as the draw of why they lived here As we move on you'll start seeing um quality of life Strongly
agree People are moving here because there is a nice balance Um proximity to job or work We found that that's pretty answered evenly across the board So people are not really moving here because it's close to their job Um next
is the school system Uh that was another one that we saw a really strong correlation Um people strongly agree with that one Cost of living is another one that came out pretty equal Followed by environment open space which I think kind of also goes back to
that quality of life Sparta offers a lot of options for outdoor um environmental activities Um next was proximity to family which across the board was once again answered pretty evenly Next we had a map if you remember
answering this question where you identified areas within Sparta um that were your favorite places So some of the places that came out um were Lake Mohawk the boardwalk White Deer Plaza the library Station Park um Sparta Mountains
and Sparta Glenn Park Uh we also saw a lot of people just um pointing to areas that were kind of the outdoor spaces the different trails the different areas to go hiking So next we went into what place in Sparta needs the most improvement So the
first piece was Route 15 Um we saw a lot of lot of people saying traffic dangerous intersections congestion um overdevelopment all things that were related to traffic Next we um kind of coupled these all together we started seeing themes and trends and we started
seeing how the sidewalks and walkability Um people desiring more of a town center a town square or kind of a central third place meeting area in town Um or some kind of traditional main street Next we
saw revitalize the main street um which kind of goes with that last comment Um a lot of people want to see those kind of downtown um Morristowns Ridgewoods Montlair's or um where they have those like walking areas different shops
different restaurants Um and then once again improved store qualities Next um we saw unappealing development incompatible development and then adaptive reuse is something people would like to see because they um one of the
main responses we saw a lot were buildings were going vacant falling into disarray Um a lot of the buildings were going into an area where they wished redevelopment or rehabilitation would take place where we'd utilize the existing buildings to a more efficient
use What are the landmarks in Sparta um we found Lake Mohawk White Deer Plaza and Sparta Glenn to um have the top answers for that Next we started going into the walkability in Sparta Um as you saw in
the earlier questions that kind of was a trend that came pretty strongly Um people did not find Sparta as very walkable um people kind of rely pretty heavily on um on uh their personal vehicles So
using other vehicles you can see that was a pretty even uh response here And then next was like where are your walkable connections and most people are just walking around their neighborhoods or the town centers Um and
that's where they want to see the most connections So maybe a connection from your neighborhood to that town center area Thank you On a scale from one to five how much do you like Sparta Town Center um one being not very much and five
being I absolutely love it We kind of saw landing somewhere in the middle So people were pretty indifferent There weren't strong feelings about this And then we revisited the previous master plan goals and objectives to see
how relevant they are today Um expand housing opportunities for existing and future township residents Um overwhelming amount of people found this not to be valid Next was preserve the township's natural resources and ecological balance within the context of
permitting appropriate development based on sound planning and engineering Um the respondents found this to be incredibly still valid Next is provide the safe and convenient movement of vehicles and pedestrians Still valid as
well The next three um still very much valid as you can tell from the graphics Uh maintain existing and establish new community and recreational facilities and services to ensure a high quality of life for current and future residents Next is safeguard the tax base preserve
the economic balance and provide for continuing source of employment and tax ratables through appropriate use of existing and potential non-residential land And then last was ensure that the township development does not conflict with the development and general welfare of the county neighboring municipalities encourage coordinated regional services
and conservation efforts So as you can see a lot of the master plan goals and objectives still very much valid as we continue assimilate future development within reasonable and manageable time periods in relation to utility and community facility planning Um encourage development and
redevelopment for planned growth in the identified town center consistent with historic character of the White Deer Plaza and Main Street Um and then this last one uh not valid still uh still um excuse me no not valid was provide a range of housing types for residents of
all ages and income levels consistent with fair share plan and the housing element Next promote the planning of infrastructure expansion of improvement consistent with the land use plan and planned centers This was kind of a mixed response although close to half of the
respondents still found this to be valid preserve open space and farmland to accommodate the community's recreational needs to protect the natural environment and unique natural features and to enhance the rural character of Sparta Uh this was an overwhelming still
valid So in the next 10 years what are the what is the number one thing you would like to see the township prioritize so we found quite a few Um these are all ranked by what we found to be the most answered question uh most responded to Um the number one was
preserve open space and rural character Um and as you go down the list you can see a number of different things Um and you can kind of start sensing the trends of the respondents here and kind of what people would like to see within the township What have you seen or
experienced in other places that you would like to see in Sparta so once again going back to that walkable downtown um a lot of emphasis on community facilities specifically uh splash park pool or rec centers We saw a lot of answers for dog parks And then finally
attractive and diverse retail and restaurants And I think that kind of pairs well with that walkable downtown once again So next we had the last question which was please provide any comments you'd like the township to consider as we kick off the master plan process Um
this was as you see a lot of the responses that we got in the beginning of the survey were carried through to this final an uh question Um once again protecting the ecosystem no overdevelopment preserve open space um consistent architectural and sign design
Um I won't bore you guys and read through all of them but um a lot of what was answered remain true throughout the uh throughout the survey which will definitely help with the master plan as we move forward And then for some reason this
one didn't show up as well but this was another word cloud Um and as you can see once again protect the environment overdevelopment traffic were three of the biggest trends that we saw throughout the survey response Um next we saw a lot of like design standards a
lot of um comments about development happening in a more holistic way Um the designs being done in a way that match the existing um properties and structures in town that maybe you've identified further as landmarks or things that you like um and not
designing things that don't fit in with the character of the community Um you can see a lot of like open space recreational type responses um unique retail restaurants small businesses um aesthetics community events Seemed like
a lot of people are looking for that social connection as well with other members in the town And that's really a nice thing to see as a planner Um seeing that people are wanting that type of community as well So the survey responses will be available on the township's website I
put the township there um the website there and then that is my contact information if you do have any questions um regarding the survey responses or any of the next steps in the master plan process If Thank you Lindsay Yeah not a problem Oh
thank you Did an excellent job in putting this together and uh presenting it But I just want to take a moment to to recognize our planner last year Katherine Sarmat who had quite a bit of input into this process as well So um I think first
we'll open it up to the board to ask whatever questions or comments that they may have and then we'll go to the public and uh the members of the subcommittee can certainly you know help uh chairwoman just I just wanted to uh on behalf of the council and the township
thank all the volunteers everyone on the master plan subcommittee for getting us through last year and getting this far along and I know it takes a lot of time and effort um and we're we're getting there We're doing good We're uh pretty far along I'm looking forward to the rest of this year and bringing this home But I just wanted to express the thanks
for everyone for all this hard work last year and getting to here Thank you I guess before opening it up we should talk a little bit about next steps Um at least it wasn't something I can't No problem Um we're going to continue with
the community outreach This was just the first phase and it was a big phase but um the subcommittee did a great job of identifying Oh sure The subcommittee did a It's not that loud Subcommittee did a great job of identifying various focus
groups I think we have about 12 focus groups uh established and uh we're going to go out and meet with each of those focus groups and ask questions help them have them look at the goals and the goals really shouldn't change The goals should be consistent We might add some new ones but help to develop some of the
objectives You know how what else should we be looking at and and ask a lot of we're forming the questions that we will be asking them Um and then we'll go also to the general uh public as well the general community Uh we also authorized
um some research and studies to be done One is the situational analysis the background like population trends housing characteristics employment schools the inventory of existing businesses etc Um we're also going to be
completing the land use element and then uh the affordable housing uh element which is being done by town council will also be incorporated into the master plan And then the last uh part that we're working on between now and the summer is the circulation element plan
which is um transportation network It includes the roads the public transit pedestrians and bicycle paths etc So those will be the four elements that we'll be focusing on in the coming months So we have a lot of work to do but we're eager to do it
Um okay Board I mean I guess uh I'm encouraged by all the public um feedback and I would just kind of like to take the opportunity to remind the public whoever might be watching or
reading this afterwards Um this is your town We're here to represent you Uh and to that end you know any issues or things that you'd like to see this is we're we're coming up with uh what the town should look like in the future and
we have good guidelines but if if we don't all kind of pitch in where we can the town's going to grow um however it's going to grow due to the pressures it's going to receive So I'm looking for positive pressure for the people that um
are willing to um exert it and I'm happy to kind of catch up with people offline um if needed just to kind of help further that effort But I appreciate everything the master plan is doing And it's I'm encouraged because it's about
time It it seems like this is the best thing that we can do to kind of show we know what we want our town to be And um so thanks I don't think there was any surprises in this in this uh survey and
that's really good Um you know this I I I think this is what you this is what you saw in the last two election cycles You saw people in the town say "We want to maintain Sparta We want to keep it the
way it is and we want to enhance the way it is We don't want massive change." And that's the reason we moved here and that's the reason we live here And uh I'm just glad that's that's what the survey said because that's what I
certainly believe in Thank you Rob Did you say anything no I'm good Ron I just want to this last year Just want I want to compliment the team that put this together I know this has been a three-year process to get this far I
think in 23 we you know we picked the team um in 24 we rolled up our sleeves and we met monthly uh every every month sometimes twice a month and we would we'd be here for four to five hours and just everyone on the team just that the the amount of of of information and thoughts that you all volunteer and
contribute is just terrific So so thank you to the whole team I'm a new member to the team so getting uh my feet wet But I want to thank Lindsay for putting together the presentation came out great And I love the responses I love how it highlights
what uh the the public um loves about Sparta and to continue moving forward in that direction Thank you Um in viewing the pres presentation you know the the one thing that I did take from it was that current master plan
that we're working on or we're working from uh I think most people think it it still is heading in the right direction We just need to tweak it Um you know uh every decade brings a new challenge with with um and uh I think this is a great
opportunity to do that And I I really think you know as everyone has said the group has done a uh a tremendous job of of putting all these thoughts together and I I I couldn't help just pretty much nod my head in in Yeah I agree with every every single thing there So thank
you Ditto Um yes thank you to everyone who's been uh so involved Um the one um item that I had thought that we should mention is that that green acres presentation that we all saw here a few months back I'm assuming that all of
that is being incorporated into the master plan Yes there will be more elements I I was just um highlighting the ones that we're going to be doing coming up but that you're correct that one is already done and that is one of the elements So good point Open space
Open space Good Thank you Like to maybe hear from town council and subcommittee members They would like to say anything before to the public Just like to just reemphasize that this is just part of
the long process There's a whole process laid out uh for engagement Engagement is critical with the community This is a key first step Uh as was mentioned though there's going to be focus groups um dozens with all different stakeholders and then general ones as well So as we go through the next number
of months uh please do participate It's critical and that way we can round out either validate or update what we found just in the survey so far Thank you Um as third generation here in Sparta being born and raised as some of the other people I know in this room
it's uh it's it's very very it's really gets to my heart to see this because that is why everyone moved here many many decades ago and uh to keep it the way it is and we are a a special place in New Jersey and in Sussex County and
that's the way that we want to keep it So thank you all It's it's long overdue but the people still want to keep it the same way as we saw in the survey So thank everybody for all their efforts Anybody from the subcommittee just like
to thank you Joan Celeste and Ron for all your hard work And can you use the mic please i would like to thank you Joan Celeste and Ron for all your leadership over the last couple of years in the process and of course all the subcommittee members
and I'm very proud to be part of the whole process We've got a good team Very good You have an excellent group Yeah let I got second thoughts about whether I should go into this but let I think the committee knows what I'm going to say and I got to make it clear that
this is my personal opinion And I know there's disagreement on the subcommittee but I think it's important enough to make it a public comment As I step back and look at all the goals and so forth that we've outlined I agree 100% As
Councilman Scott said there's not a lot of surprises here which is reasonable and good I was a part of the last major update to the master plan So I'm not surprised either If I characterize all the things the goals that we're looking at I think that most of them while
they're very worthy and desirable and certainly qualify as goals I don't see them as time sensitive I don't see that there is an urgency to do it I think it's something we should use as focusing our efforts as we improve the town going
forward with one exception traffic which is a personal whatever of mine came out as a high high intensity concern and I think it's time sensitive in the sense that the planning board the
zoning board and the council are going to make decisions near future and continuing that can make the solution of the traffic problem much more difficult over time So when this plan comes out six months from now or whatever and gets
implemented over time we may in a sense be overcome by events and that we've made our traffic solution much more difficult than it is today I recognize the circumstances we're in I know the lawsuits I know uh the difficulty of looking for
alternative paths I know we need to get the state involved etc etc A lot of things make it very difficult to come up with a real solution to traffic And I'm thinking mostly Route 15 I'm just concerned that we can't let near-term
decisions without having making that a priority I don't want to let that slip so that by the time this plan comes out we put ourselves in a much more difficult circumstance And to just be very bold I don't I'm not claiming this is realistic
or whatever I'd almost suggest our boards pasadorans whatever characterize the impact on traffic as a what's the right word for a a permitted use or a conditional use to
make that a top consideration If you come in with looking for a permitted use for a development we need to know clearly scientifically what's the impact on traffic and maybe possibly make that a criterion for whether it's
permitted or falls back to uh whatever the other words are So that's my piece and again it's kind of my own views I've been involved with all this stuff for a long time and I just see traffic getting steadily worse and worse and I would
like to call a halt to it if we can and and get put something in place so that the focus of our boards to the extent that's legal and possible with ordinance cons consistent Let's make sure that we don't inadvertently worsen our traffic
situation before we get to the point where we start to live by this plan That's that's my two cents Thank you If I could add excellent point uh Mike the there's a leading case in New Jersey called the Dunkin Donut case on
traffic And what that case says is that if you permit the use in that zone it's presumed that the traffic is okay Right And that's what you're alluding to So that was very astute of you I'm complimenting you on your analysis
because the court has recognized that philosophy If you say it's a permitted zoo use it's presumed traffic comes with it So uh yeah just like to call it you know get it explicitly out there in front of the board and the public So see what happens And just quickly for the
the Dunkin Donut case was it was a strip center where there was a Dunkin Donuts and it was a permitted use and they opened up and then traffic the board denied it saying that it would create too much traffic and the uh the court reversed saying that it was a permitted
use It's that has gone out Now there are still public health safety and welfare issues whether you want to have a drive-thru whether you want to limit hours So you still have some power but uh you are correct that the use comes with traffic Thank you Thanks Let just
add a comment on that too So I don't disagree with you Mike Um the fact is the last number of ordinances that were modified um coming from the planning board and approved by the council um have embedded in there three new studies that need to be submitted by the applicant Maybe you're familiar with it
One of them is a traffic study So for the PDRM2 zone which is the latest one we did and other zones that were updated more recently um an element of traffic study and um requirements were put into those at least in the short term That should be helpful before we get to do a
whole master plan Thanks Dean And I'm somewhat aware of that As I said at one earlier meeting I did I saw the requirements for studies and I don't want to get off on a tangent I didn't see strict criteria that said give us a study but if you don't meet ABCDE you're
not you can't proceed Maybe they're in there and I missed it but I did I saw a study required but I didn't see the impact of failing the study or failing the criteria Yeah I I don't want to quote them now I'm not an expert in them but I will say that there were levels of
service requirements and changes that were noted in there in pretty great detail Um but I don't want to quote anything past that about whether that was a complete black and white yes or no or that was something that the planning board could consider So it's somewhere in that range Thanks Dean
Sorry just one really quick Um just to expand I don't think I'm going to get an answer on this right now Um but is there anything that the council can do in terms of getting in touch with the DOT and and having them reassess um 15 now that we have better data on what's going
on in the North Village area because I believe the last time that was actually really done on their level was prior to that development So if there's something that that you guys can do on the council level I I believe that's what I heard I may be I I maybe have heard wrong but um
if there's an outreach that can happen that that that would help us greatly in our process Yeah I mean that's obviously a large long-term discussion around desiraability of expanding it whether that's in the best interest of the township versus other mechanisms and
other approaches to uh limit traffic But I think there's always a time to go back I don't think it's ever closed for good Um so perhaps I mean we've had studies and studies over the years This is not this new one isn't earthshattering right we all know there's traffic there right um but I think there's a time to do that
and the council could consider that I don't want to commit on behalf of the council tonight No no I know Thanks To your to your point Celeste if I could I was on a planning board when North Village or whatever it's called got approved There was a ton of conversation about trafficking Everybody recognized
the implications And Chris Quinn actually reminded me of this recently At that point the state was committed to a bypass or to something I forget what And then part of our reason in my recollection part of a reason why we accepted North Village per se without
further conversation about traffic was the expectation the state was going to help us do something and subsequently that disappeared So if we can go back to the state in in some right context and remind them it's at least worth I don't know what what it might cause but it's
worth putting on the table I think to your point So it proceeded with the expected contingency that never followed through So I just want to piggyback on what Celeste said and then just kind of underscore that um I have familiarity
with with experts um presenting findings and uh as as we go forward and kind of you know get something good and perfect it um that you know it's good to have traffic studies uh environmental impact
studies but we need to kind of um define what we not and I think my preference because I think North Village might have been uh applicant supplied traffic study Um so I I think there's an importance to
ensuring um independent review um from applicants uh presenting their um their plans because you know we can hear engineering
reports and everything I mean there was a recent the pops bagels right we had we had a duly sworn an engineer who spoke to traffic but as I understand it planning board is is here to kind of say yes you're an expert but we're very
familiar with these roads we're intimately familiar with you know oh it would be terrible if you turn left out of that you know so I just I just want to make sure that uh we're considering that when we step applicants through
these requirements that we go a little bit farther and say it needs to be an independent expert Um not anyway I don't know how we do that but we have we have one We have one Yeah we can hire Neglia and as I said earlier one of the first
pieces we're going to do is the circulation study Um so we get that in place but um based on what I'm hearing it's we also need to look at use because as what Ken said is if the use is there it assumes that it's going to take
parking with it So we should be looking at um use in each of the different zones as we're working through the master plan and uh perhaps making recommendations regarding that And yeah I know we we have Neglia um for traffic I'm just
saying in the past in reviewing some of this it looks like applicants provided a lot of those expert um opinions So Mr Yes If something in is a permitted
use that doesn't that assume that that that traffic cannot be considered in the decision traffic can always be considered Okay Uh as I had said public health safety and
welfare if the Dunkin Donuts uh is a permitted use but doesn't mean that you have to have that permitted use open 24/7 uh that you still have time place and manner Uh that's uh reasonable Again public health safety and welfare It may
be that that permitted use should not have a drive-thru Uh that uh you may have a restaurant that is permitted but you limit the amount of tables Uh so there are a permitted use doesn't give cart blanch uh but if something is a
permitted use and comes planning for it and they are reasonable uh the applicant you should be reasonable uh but if a applicant I think as uh Mr Otto was saying that if they come in with the traffic study that says the current
condition is an F condition and it's not going to make it any worse well it's an F condition Uh so you know we have to have an element I think as Rob said that if you know in community you can't make a left-hand turn
there that you have to use a level of common sense of public health safety and welfare Thank you I'm going to add just one one thing and I apologize but again I don't want people walking away thinking that that we don't look at it because you know when you look at what was done in the economic development zone uh ordinance
you look at what we did on PDM1 PDRM 2 there are traffic standards in there that says show us that you meet these and it helps us define is it proper use or not so that data is there and it is being looked at can it be better absolutely but but it is being looked
Yeah I didn't mean to imply that it was not considered I'm just trying to emphasize it a little bit more Maybe Mr Porro if I could just better understand the implications of the Dunkin Donuts case that you mentioned Um I think you said that um if the use is
permitted then there's a presumption that the board has accepted the use would not have an impact on traffic Is that a rebuttable presumption or did I misunderstand the implications in the
first place i think you've got a little uh it's it's a permitted there is a presumption that the traffic the when it was approved that the traffic has a use it comes with it Now that's the difference between the planning board
and the board of adjustment We only we being the planning board only hear permitted uses You know you will hear subdivision and those issues but board of adjustment you actually have the harder job uh because you are changing uses of which the master plan is
contrary to the master plan and I compliment you all A lot of communities do not uh update their master plans as often Uh some communities have 30 years since they've looked at it plus and I know you've been in in the process for 41 now they've been looking at it the
last three years which is admirable So again if the master plan I'd like to see it from a legal perspective sooner than later because that gives us guidance Uh so if you want to change uses that aren't permitted because of public
health safety because of the survey uh because of traffic studies you're getting I'd rather have that data now because the court doesn't want to bless you doesn't want to interfere with your community but the court will say how current is your master plan how current
are the traffic studies how current are your efforts uh uh so so okay but um uh perhaps I haven't asked my question properly Um if the township says that a particular use is permitted
um I almost question what is the point of a traffic study given the Dunkin Donuts decision which apparently means that you approved it as a useo the traffic you approved the traffic Yeah you're you're uh you're
going to the extreme of that Let's say a restaurant is approved as permitted use If it's 1,000 square feet and your parking requirements and your traffic is X If it's 5,000 square feet it's Y If
it's 10,000 square feet it's Z So same thing with office buildings warehouses and the like Just because it's a permitted use we still have to constrain the size and operation in conformity with your roadways and public health safety and welfare Something that was a
permitted use in the past may not function currently and that's why you reexamine your master plan And that's why I'd like to have it sooner than later because now you have the most current data And when the court reviews it they give very good difference to that because it's a current document
Okay So it's there's a presumption that it's okay but there's a presumption that that use now let's say like even height the height may be permitted but if it's over 10% now it goes to the board of adjustment it's a Dvariance so things in
dimminimous things the Dunkin Donuts case is okay if the magnitude again on the Dunkin Donuts case does it have a drive-thru does it have a walk up does it have 247 so even in the Dunkin Donuts case is saying if it's a permitted use
you just can't say it's traffic is the problem If it's a permitted use but because of the drive up because of the hours of operation because of the size of the Dunkin Donuts it doesn't fit even though it's a permitted use I believe the board would have the power to at
least amend that or object to it Okay Uh thank you for that And I think one thing I should mention that hasn't been mentioned here uh and particularly for the benefit of the public who may be listening in I'm sure all of you and the members of the planning board know this but the job of the um um subcommittee is
to make a recommendation of a master plan which will be submitted to the planning board for either adoption or a modification or rejection uh but I just didn't want the public to think that there's a group of people who are going to decide uh who are not elected
officials etc Uh it will be ultimately up to the planning board to make a decision regarding an ultimate recommendation that we'll make And if I could just add to that the board of adjustment is one of the purest boards because you're considered class
four members You are not elected officials You are not meant to be elected officials So this subcommittee is uh again the more resonance the better as far as the eyes of the court Thank you To expand on what Brian Brian
just said can can you make all your uses conditional uses and that way you always have a traffic study in your hand when you make your decision i there's a level of uh practicality I
we have a a very good uh land use director here in Dory and uh you know to put condition you do it yes uh is it functional it would be difficult for the community because then if your goals are to have certain development let's say a
data center a data center is a great ratable for those in the data center is kind of the cloud that's where we have storage of and uh more and more important very little traffic uh great ratable So a lot of municipalities like
data centers So if you put too many conditions on the data center is that going to delay it that someone will go to another community so those uses that you want uh let's say you want residential development Uh normally the community they'll say we
want X units per acre So it's called the density the the more density the more developers like because they can make more money So you have a balance of what is your if you're looking to get more residential units you may want to
encourage more density U so you can put the conditions but that would hinder if that's a goal of development And Ken just to bring it back to the master plan as well there will be a circulation element where it will identify if there
are uses or areas that are where um traffic is specifically identified Um in addition there's also a land use element So within that as well you can identify um you could use it trip generation information and things like that to identify uses that may cause more trips
or less trips and those can be um suggestions of amendments to your ordinance So this can be covered within the master plan as well Data centers were never considered They're nowhere in the master plan because years ago we didn't have data
centers We just maybe have to look at the mix of uses and start to change some of the mixes based on and not just traffic but what kind of traffic I just wanted to throw in because you've
brought that up and uh I'm looking into that too I know that the planner and our attorney are uh you know C data centers is pretty favorable I can see that you know uh an adaptive reuse of say disused office buildings postcoid That makes
total sense to me um topic for later discussion obviously but just want to put a pin in it because I I think that they're pretty resource intensive like for sure uh off-site trip generation is
nothing right but electricity electrical grid uh water usage my understanding is they're pretty intensive but we can you know we I mean I was uh before I came here I was general counsel in the town of Caucus uh for almost 10 years and
they have three data centers They're really amazing They have solar panels They uh utilize water energy They have their own batteries They have they are the true cloud on the ground Uh because if god forbid there's a tragedy uh they really uh popped up after 911 because
the these are locations where god forbid there is uh a tragedy The data the cloud data is saved at these locations So yes good conversation for another uh part of the process Yes Anybody else
i just add one more thing I want to make it clear that my comment should not be construed as a criticism of any boards I complimented you Yeah I know But I I mean it's not like nobody recognizes this traffic except me obviously I just
thought it was worth emphasizing but I I appreciate traffic What and then I have 10 more points I'd like to make If I don't like travel I have to tell you when we sat down um at I guess two meetings ago for the master plan we
kind of rolled up our sleeves and looked at these,68 responses for each question The question I believe that Mike got was the one on traffic and it had over half of all of the thousand something responses
Traffic traffic traffic traffic So that's where he's coming from too We'll give you like dog parks and splash pads next time Yeah I I would have traded There you go Okay All right Well if uh nobody has any
other further questions or comments um we can open it up to the public everyone Just just your name and if you live in town Yes Sylvia Salone I live here in town Uh one of the And I'm not going to swear anyone from the public in I don't think it's necessary at this
this forum Thank you Okay Well first of all I want to commend everyone This is great as a Sparta resident one of the reasons why my family and I decided to get out of Bergen County was to come up here for the beautiful open spaces And um when I'm not doing my day gig my
night gig or my other gig is that I am the executive director of New Jersey Forest Watch a 501c3 organization in the state that is tasked to protect and to preserve our public open spaces Specifically this all began because of
the logging that's happening on Sparta Mountain So what this survey for me really shows is the affirmation that Sparta residents want to not only maintain our open spaces but to also enjoy them and to protect them I want to
add we don't want our open spaces to be logged This does not go into the definition of an open space Um unfortunately that's currently happening on Sparta Mountain and the degradation that has occurred that our group has witnessed and we've documented
with PhD forest ecologists that are not associated with any kind of financial um benefit from the logging um will also attest to that And so I encourage each and every one of us here to protect and
to preserve areas like Sparta Mountain Sparta Glenn We saw that as being very important Many of these areas are open space that were preserved through our own tax dollars Green acres Sparta Mountain is 100% green acres funded And
we don't want to see our green acres lands being logged in the state Now just because the D manages these lands we need to hold them accountable If it were any other business and somebody does a
bad job what do we do we fire them right now It's a little complicated but I would love to be able to fire the state and say you're not managing Sparta Mountain in a way that is ecological in a way that honors the true um purpose
for green acres right degradation of ecological resources should not be happening especially with the climate crisis that we are in So I wanted to encourage each and every one of us to continue to fight for our open spaces
and to protect and preserve them so that our children's children have places to go and to recreate and we can also ensure our water supply and a clean air for all of us to breathe Thank you Thank
you very much Good evening Kathy Ebanows and Scutters Roads Sparta First I wanted to just thank you all for the time and effort that you put into this survey this presentation tonight I know it wasn't a small amount
of time and effort So I just want to say thank you for that I am indeed encouraged by the results and also share them that that you know keeping open space and green space is is really a key part of this community So I
second and third that and whatever else that um one question I have is uh something that was brought up what I thought I heard someone mention uh during the presentation I just wanted to kind of double click on and that was um the
mention of 12 focus groups regarding the subcommittee So I wanted to understand more about that and you know are there openings for those focus groups and what are they focused on jenny who's also a member of our uh
subcommittee I think put the focus groups together and listed them So I'd like to maybe uh give that to you So the groups that I just pulled together um from my experience in working in the community and looking around in the community and knowing the
different organizations were there was two purposes to it First was to identify some of the uh groups that would have um specific comments relating to the job that they do for the community So for example one of the the the first focus
group has three different organizations the police the fire and EMS ambulance ambulance And then we go to board of education and superintendent and school administrators So that's to give you an idea of what some of those focus groups
look like And then there were a whole host of other um groups that that I just put down on paper because I knew they were groups of people that gather together in the community and might be interested They're already interested in their community for a certain reason and
might be a contact point to bring folks into a larger group meeting So there might be we we envisioned maybe having some um different areas uh you know set up around a room where we could invite 50 100 people or more in and and each of
us manning a station that discussed traffic water uh you know development or you know what changes we'd like to have And so that list is quite extensive you know everything from Sussex County Bird Club to the photography club to scouts
and uh you know I mean sorry the women's clubs and and the the different so if we look at the Lake Mohawk Country Club for example there's two different groups So you have the trustees and the organiz organization part of Lake Mohawk and then you have the membership And so it's
a way to um we spoke about the 12 groups and those are the specific like I said the um the the police the fire the schools and so on and the business um economic development business development committee and the um chamber of commerce for example or another two
groups Um but then the other the other sections would we would open it up to larger group meetings once we get through these smaller one-on-one type of um sitdown meetings um and pull information from what do the police need
what do the schools need what do they see going forward what are some of the pinch points for them and then we take that and we come out to the community and say here's what we've got so far What do you think let us know And so that's what I think Do I have that right okay Is that good okay
Hi Dean Rhyau Been here 42 years and I'm originally from Bergen County and glad I escaped Um Route 17 for Route 15 208 Um basically I mean I since I've been up here a long time I used to commute from
Sparta to Wall Street and I find it interesting the state did surveys I mean literally where they stopped me on route 280 to fill out this form and say where are you coming from i know at one point New Jersey actually was interested in doing something just like the Sparta W
um the YMCA in Hardist about 2530 years ago they talked about putting in a recreational facility in what I call lower Sussex County Sparta Byum and over Green Township but they ultimately elected and they never sent a survey it went up to hardest which I kind of think
was a mistake but um I rather see two of them just in terms of looking at I I think it's been a a great survey and a great response and I'm not surprised the way it shows but one thing in terms of looking at the recreational space I
think that for what's been done for children in town is amazing I look at a lot of our money went to astroturf and I don't like it because it's a petroleumbased product um But how about the seniors and the people that might
need that may not be able to afford a health club um or join a lake but they now have them in Carney and in various towns They're like outside fitness pieces of equipment that they can do their stretches and they can move their
body a little bit with assistance and it's not going to cost them anything And I think that's really something with would be very complimentary to see in one of our parks and when you're doing some planning point Seniors are one of the groups on the list as well One of the focus groups
Yeah Good evening Barbara Gomes I don't have to say my address I just I'm a resident of Sparta for 25 years I swear Um I just want to say I'm a really proud resident tonight This has been wonderful to hear the results Um and but more wonderful to
see the community engagement It reminds me of I don't know three years ago when uh the community really stood together and showed showed each other what we're made of the fabric that we're made of So watching the boards tonight even interact with each other is is a
pleasure Um especially I I I do know how hard that uh that you're working as a volunteer and um I think it may be helpful to hear that from this side of the room sometimes Um so anyway enough of that Um
so my question is if the um Highlands Water Protection Regional Council has been invited to uh participate in the survey or give their presentation And I know that there was some talk about that at the last meeting and what is the
process for them to come in and do that cuz I'm very interested as a resident in knowing how they um look at the water resources that maybe we're not considering or maybe that we don't know how to consider Maybe they have some things already done for for us
ordinances for this kind of area that might look at parcels that are over the aquafer and say oops no definitely no data center there that would be a bad use Um but you know these are just uh questions I have because you guys are very thoughtful and you're doing the
work and I think maybe the regional council is helpful for towns who have not been able to consider these things and maybe we've collected a lot of this stuff already and are doing a great job But I would just love to know that in the time that we have that we're considering this that we looked at all the options and have the best
protections for our residents Thank you Thank you That that's a good point because we did say at our last meeting that we were going to invite the Highlands in as well as the county to hear the pros and cons from each one for
the state plan crossceptance process and that's what we had intended to do Um but in the meantime there something else had occurred and maybe there was a deadline I don't know But uh the town council did address it and they decided that they were going to go with the county So we
don't have anybody here tonight but I don't see why we still can't hear from them Um and I'd like to you know get see what the board would like to do about bringing them back and just hearing their views on um as exactly what you
said Um and the county as well and just it'd be just be good information for this whole process And and I understand I don't you guys understand more than I do but from what I think I understand the state plan is great for the state but we have a very
sensitive environmental region that we have a very interested community in um in the water protection and so just getting that information just exploring it would feel good that we left no stone unturned
So the town council did pass that last week but I want you to know that that by p by being part of the state or aligning ourselves with the state master plan and the county master plan that does not preclude us in any way shape or
form from participating with the Highlands Council and aligning oursel with that plan Also excellent That's great clarification We haven't eliminated any possibilities We just had a couple things to do We got a couple things to do in the meantime So I guess
the second part of my question then is what is your process since you talked about this at the last meeting wanting to bring them in like what does that mean who calls them do you want me to call them no Um can I be helpful in that way um who schedules them and and how can we communicate that to the public
because again I think they would be interested in hearing that as well as part of this valant effort that you guys are all doing Well we'd like to bring them back as part of uh at least my recommendation is as part of the a meeting a public process and we have a board secretary who could contact them
and invite them and make it as part of our regular agenda should the board wish to do that And also just as part of the master plan study um we do have to look at all planning documents that are applicable to the township So that includes looking at the state plan any
county plans as well as the Highlands uh preservation we will have to look at their plans and as part of um adopting the plan it does get sent to all of those agencies as well So they will then have an opportunity as well to read the document and and give us any input as
well Madam Chair if I if I'm if I'm recollecting correctly one of the one of the things that had stopped that process was the grant that we were working on Um no no no the grant that we were working on for for master plan funds that um the
Highlands I believe came back and and had asked us to look at the planning area the planned area of Sparta to see whether or not that would be in alignment and I believe that there was correct me if I'm wrong uh Dean there was a portion of those funds that they
were looking to earmark for that process I think that's what kind of held up um in the in the past yeah bringing bringing them you fully on board But to your point all of those things and I and I know previously because this is the
what the way Katherine was was moving and I'm assuming that Lindsay you know was going to is going to pick up the mantle Every element that gets looked at has to be comparatively you know looked at to see what the best options are So even if we
don't fully opt into the regional master plan I'm sure the intention is to kind of get as close as possible so that all the preservation that we can manifest you know safely and and effectively happens happens and happens well I mean
that that would be my intention and and my you know my movement forward One of the things that I was hoping um that the subcommittee would really kind of focus in on when we got to those elements we're just not there yet We're we're just at the point now of talking to stakeholder groups and getting the
information out there But Lindsay is going to be diving into the weeds um any day now if she hasn't already I'm sure it's my recollection that it was about 15% of the grant though So the Highlands was going to be giving us a grant for to cover the cost of the master plan or
part of the cost of the master plan itself the cost of the professionals and so on but that they were going to require that there was a hold back of 10 to 15% of that money to evaluate whether Sparta how Sparta um would relate to uh
how it would work for Sparta to become part of the regional master plan Um they wanted to do that study in order for us to get the grant money which I don't think we said we we didn't want them to do we sort of no we didn't determine that and it was also the money was for
the assessment to take place upfront not a commitment to opt into the planning area um so my my question is so we had the highlands council here as you all know right last year I believe to do a presentation talk to us about all that um so for the next steps I mean there's
two different tracks here that I'm hearing one is to have them come back and publicly give another presentation the other track which I think is more critical is that the subcommittee use talks to them andor gets data from them that informs the work that's going to
happen in creating the master plan right and that that's critical that that is ingrained in that um whether they come back here at a certain point do another presentation that's nice but I think more importantly is that the subcommittee has access to them and has the data so that informs the master plan
that's being proposed right I mean what I thought I heard from John though was that we Did I get it right that that you were kind of saying if we wanted to reach out to them if this if this I took it back from speaking master
planning because Barbara was asking about the cross acceptance process She was to referencing the if I'm correct the last meeting and then saying where did it go right so I pulled it back a little and said for the cross acceptance process it can't hurt to have see what
kind of um information they could give us what kind of protections they have and uh you I I don't think there are any restrictions in making a recommendation to town council at that point whether hey we think highlands will be good or we think county will be good but just hear from
them both because as a planning board never had that opportunity It was our intention Do you know if there is a time clock on this because there I think there's there is um what's the word I'm looking for but I think there's an
affordable housing element to it too And there's many towns now that are trying to conform to the regional water protection master plan So yeah I wanted to kind of throw that in because uh we're in the Highlands Um so I would want to at least get the
information So I was kind of going to say if if we need to just take a vote to invite them I would kind of urge that we do that because I think the Mount Laurel numbers time is of the essence right and um just to a greater point we've we've
heard about open space and how um you know well our numbers I think are dictated by more of a regional assessment but we all know again we live here in Sparta that sometimes our open space isn't truly open space as it might
be in other communities steep slopes recharge areas um sensitive areas and these are people Highlands Council um that have particular expertise in those
uh regional ecosystems and then specific expertise in I think uh helping to quantify um you know what's the reality of the open space that we have within Sparta because my guess um my hunch is that While we do technically have a lot
of open space actually development wise it's not a lot of open space Uh we don't want to encumber a lot of this space because we rely on the subsurface waters um for our very livelihood So you know I would just
again I if there was a motion to be made to at least invite them my understanding is it's totally optional and I thought we could opt out if we ever did go with them but um I'll leave it to you guys
So to a couple things So the housing element which is being done as your fair share plan and housing element which is being done by another planner who um there's a couple things your number that you were given of your perspective need is based on a three-factor calculation
that DCA um had done The first piece is going to be the change in income um since the previous round The second factor which is your non-residential tax assessment So that's the valuation of non-residential properties and the changes that occurred between that The
third piece was your land capacity which many towns um went and objected to because when the DCA mapping came out um they found flaws within the mapping system So like you said I had towns where there were Rossy sites there were
um interchanges on the freeways um single family homes rear yards things like that So that's where um some of these numbers were able to be challenged Um but because it is a three-factor system it wasn't really changing the numbers that much But now the second
piece is your planner is going to go through and do your housing element And like you said they're going to do what is called a vacant land adjustment So they are going to look through all of the vacant land within the municipality to determine if any of this is actually developable And so part of that is you
look at different mapping systems um you look at NJD mapping you look at FEMA mapping um and you kind of start whittling down that list of all vacant land to a point where you find if lands can actually be developed on So that's
where you do this whole analysis of anything that's determined vacant and you go parcel by parcel to determine if there is actually realistic development opportunities So that's the first piece then your planner is going to go and do a realistic development potential number which is going to change your number
hopefully a little bit more and that is showing that the realistic development that's going to take place over the next 10 years So any projects that are in the pipeline any projects from the previous round that carried over things like that So typically your number that you were given by DCA as your perspective need
once this um kind of exercise is done will most likely be different than what your perspective need originally was I don't know I'm not working on that so I can't speak to specifics but um the housing element which is part of the master plan will also be changing that
and it will take into account a lot of the things that you have spoken about as well And it'll it'll kind of doing that um vacant land analysis will really dig into why properties cannot be developed on
Um just and just to clarify so so I'm pretty close to that process that the council's going through with the planner any lawyers So just to circle back to Rob's comment having um the Highlands Council or anyone come in now and talk about water quality or other things u
won't affect the number that we were given as a town the number that um we carefully reduced into a a more perfect number that we then submitted And then this next few months of process that's happening now with some challenges and everything and where we wind up won't be
affected by the Highlands Council or anybody coming in and talking about water quality or anything That's totally a separate process Not saying shouldn't do it but that's not going to affect the housing number affordable housing wise I'm also hearing that sounds like we should look at Rossi again Um and then the other the other item as
well is maybe as we go through these stakeholder meetings maybe that is when we contact Highlands and that's kind of when we speak to them as well Um but I think we're going to have open communication with them during the master plan Um I did the master plan for the mealands and during that process we
were constantly um in talks with the 13 municipalities and the county and the state as well So it's definitely an open process because it's a document that affects everyone I think we also need to focus on you
know we're here to protect smart you know and understand that uh other groups who whoever they are on the outside aren't aren't uh interested in in their objectives and not necessarily ours So we had we had a guard against that the first person from the public that spoke
here talk about Sparta Mountain and the green and it being a Greenacres project By Greenacres taking that over we've lost complete control over that area town and it's now um they they do what they want That's the state D is has
all the say We have none So that's that's that's another thing we need to take into consideration and understand that we want to as we go forward and we bring other groups in or we partner with other groups we want to make sure that they're aligned with with our goals
We want to hear Good evening board members My name is Joe Erdully I'm actually a resident of Andover Township I'm here for multiple reasons but uh this was very interesting to me One I uh personally sit on the land use board over in Andover Township The land use
board is a combination of the zoning and the planning boards I also happen to be the chairperson for our master plan update which we've just completed We're about to have our public hearing in just a couple weeks So it was very interesting to see this particular uh thing particular uh presentation to see
how aligned our surveys were It was very much we are very much not different from Sparta Sparta is not different from Andover Township Uh there were a couple differences but there's a couple things I do want to point out from there Um one
again the similarity was was quite amazing the the open space the keeping the nature keeping the uh the rural nature of our towns was was absolutely key Um walkability One of the things that actually came up in regards to walkability we're not a very walkable
town and we don't anticipate that We know that's going to be a challenge although that was asked of us We're also a big bikeability town We get a lot of bikers from out of the area that come over and hang out Uh they park themselves over Kittatini and they ride in our town But we've also noticed that
they ride into Sparta they ride into Newton So as the subcommittee has continued to work this as you get into that circulation plan what I would like to personally ask is see if we can't team up somehow in regards to that biking ability and see if we can't come
up with some safer paths because if you've seen the bikers on the road they're on our major roads and they they it's a challenge sometimes but if we could come together on that and come up with some bike paths between our towns and again we border five towns We have t
five towns around us We would love to partner with all those towns to see if we can help these bikers who come into our town and support our towns as well as your own Uh in regards to traffic we don't have the route 15 issue although we all probably travel it Um Newton Spar
Road is our traffic issue But one thing I want to point out and make sure that everybody's aware of uh Andover Township uh is actually getting the rail station It's been uh been in the works for 20 years Um but they've actually started working on it and it's anticipated to
open up in uh 2026 at some time I don't have the timing on that but that's what's planned So I want to make sure everybody's aware that there will be a train station into the city uh that will be stationed uh Roseville Avenue in uh Andover Township Um and the other the
only other difference I did notice is uh from a housing perspective Andover is a is an aging town Andover Township is an age of town Over 50% of our uh residents are over 55 years of age So senior housing was a major uh response that
came back wanting senior housing in our towns I didn't see that necessarily in in your survey and I thought that was a little interesting but it might be something to consider Uh I know that Sparta has um you know a much younger population to begin with Um but at some
point that younger population if you want them to stick around and stay are going to age as well And we're trying to do what we can in our master plan to help people age in place and stick around So I just want to point out those few things and uh tell you that we're
we're right there with you on that survey And all Can I just ask you um who's your planner uh our planner for for your master plan uh Corey Corey actually uh Matt Matthew Matt Morrison has been our planner He's
with Corey um and I don't know the name of their I can't think remember the name Don't worry Cory Stoner He's actually the engineer for I know Cy Yeah Hello Thank you very much There's not very many planners so I was like I'll find them Yeah All right But Matt
Morrison's been the one who's been working with us Okay And again our public hearing is in two weeks April 29th if anybody'd like to join So thank you for your time and uh well done to the subcommittee I know we've been working multiple years as well There's a light at the end of the tunnel There is
Thank you for sharing all that It was very interesting and you did bring up a good point about um really uh working with the other towns Uh so not just we should be working with Andover We should be if we're just looking at Route 15 not look at it in isolation what's going on
with Lafayette and uh the big picture So I know that part of our plan will be to look at the uh master plans of all of the surrounding towns working and working with the county as well And and I know that's one of the because I've dealt with this with the county One of the biggest problems they have with their roads because they've been there a
long time Their rightaway a lot of times is one foot off the fog line They don't have any room to put bike lanes in you know because we've asked them to put them on East Shore Trail in Sparta 517 then ends up in over in your town and uh
they just don't have the they don't own the land to to do it That's the problem And there's a lot of bikes on the county roads So sir could you give us your contact information before you leave thank you I just want to also echo I appreciate
you coming in because I started digging into the master plans and just planning and zoning just trying to understand it get up to speed and it seems like that big missing link is just collaboration with your neighbors I mean we didn't we created our our boundaries but nature
and you know it's it it all cuts through um these natural boundaries don't really respect uh what we've built And so to that end I mean if if we can collaborate in future or present like I think that is a no-brainer We should be doing that
We should be engaging um at least Newton and over you know everyone around us um and trying to to work on a common goal We have common threats So thank you My name is Gary Tankovich I'm a 30-year
Sparta resident and um I must say I'm I'm very encouraged by the results of the the survey The message I'm taking from this is that the overwhelmingly common denominator here is regard to the rural character and
open space And I would just urge the planning board and the council to keep that foremost in their thoughts when decisions come up as the uh process moves forward I'm thinking specifically PDRM2
Um I would also like to present a a somewhat alternate point of view in regard to Sparta Mountain I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that that tract is a wildlife
management area with the emphasis on management And that's what I understand the state's objective is here is to um create a a mosaic of mature forest which is very important as well as young
forest Um this is not the 1890s They don't do logging They don't do land use the way they did in the 1890s where they completely it was irrelevant clear cutting and that sort of thing This is being done
by professional loggers professional foresters in conjunction with wildlife biologists And it certainly is ugly when they first do it But if you look at some of the areas that have been cut 5 10
years ago where there was one tree 15 have grown up to replace it And a lot of organizations um do support the Sparta Mountain management plan Um water uh
Trout Unlimited is an organization that advocates for clear water They favor the plan They've looked at it So again I'm just presenting an alternate point of view Not everybody considers logging to be evil Um in some places and in some
contexts is very appropriate and uh it's an important tool for managing wildlife Thank you Thank you I said the magic word so I have to say something Beth Broadick I've been here
for 46 years Um my questions are how are you planning on working with Lake Mohawk regarding Lake Mohawk as a whole the plaza and my biggest pet peeve traffic because we're getting a buttload of cutthrough traffic
from Newton Sparta Road from people going to 181 and a whole bunch of other stuff Now is an excellent opportunity to work with Lake Mohawk so that I don't get run over and killed by a Pepsi truck a Coke truck the linen truck or the box
truck that almost hit me headon at 6:30 in the morning in front of Rob's house There's already a four weight limit I'd really like to know how you guys are going to work with Lake Mohawk as part of the master plan and over so their traffic isn't getting screwed up
but so that the bikers and the kids and the 80year-olds that live on my street do not have a problem I don't know if Jenny's subcommittee is part of if that's the only or the one you
mentioned anyway but if that's the only thing maybe we could kind of expand on that I have no problem coming to every planning board meeting and antagonizing you guys until I get my traffic fixed And Dean I'm sorry I and Margie I will be at every town council
meeting annoying the crap out of you until I get what I want I I will just give one perspective on this Beth And I know Mike and I have talked about this and we talked about it at the last subcommittee meeting Remember this is a critical issue I get it The master plan is a vision and a strategy for the next
20 years So this might bubble up to be that we need to um manage traffic and safety and here's the goals here's the objectives It's not getting into the nitty-gritty of what can we do in a month just I know it's not going to be I know it's a big picture and I know it's not just my street or just the lake but
it's my understanding that lake Mohawk makes up 40% of Sparta so it's a big issue and when you're looking at traffic and water quality at open space you're looking at lake mo the actual lake itself you're looking at the wall river and a whole bunch of other stuff so if
there's a problem with a ridiculous amount of traffic in part of the community that cannot handle it you're not looking at just me being a brat but and I will own that until the day I die but you're looking at the the water in
the lake You're looking at the wall kill You're looking at everything It's big picture I know it's not an overnight solution I've been bothering you guys for four or five years now It's got to be addressed So I'm just curious as to how you guys are planning on working
with the lake as a big entity in Sparta and also the police with it because they're a big factor I'm back and forth with McCarrick on a regular basis at this point I'll let Joan if you want to add I'll just say my comments are is first of all there's members that live
in Lake Mohawk of the subcommittee Okay The mesh plan subcommittee on the stakeholders list is clearly a few groups from Lake Mohawk um and the police So these groups are stakeholders They're going to be in focus groups gonna they're going to be key contributors Um and again the public has
ability to comment too So it's not like it's going to be just a one-off meeting At least that's not my understanding So and the issues you mentioned are issues that Sparta needs addressed not just Lake Mohawk Oh no it's not So we're saying the same thing It's not just my university And Jenny mentioned maybe the
public from Lake Mohawk Is that how do residents of Lake Mohawk get involved in that that right now we're doing Jenny Can you Oh sorry I'll share the mic I won't invite you today Sorry So right now um we're working uh on getting the scripts
and the questions ready for and making the appointments with the specific smaller groups that we talked that I spoke about earlier And then from there once we get all of that information from those folks then we will make wide open invitations We have to establish when
and where what facilities You know hopefully this won't be big enough of a room to to meet uh to meet the needs So we're going to have to get that I would think that that might be I don't want to put don't hold me to a timeline but I'm thinking probably summer maybe into the fall
Is that okay yeah I just wanted to add though um you know we've kind of when we've said traffic over and over and over again tonight we focus on Route 15 but that's not the only problem So I appreciate you bringing that up I mean take a look at
the intersection Corporal Morris has said many times the intersection of Sparta Avenue and 517 Um and as you're bringing up Lake Mohawk So all of these different little pockets and the circulation study should start to we're going to focus on that
and we're going to direct them and we can incorporate it in there And also as we go to the police as one of our focus groups I think we can take some of these questions and work with the police on that as well and uh you know have them make recommendations as to oneway
streets or other things you know that they see as signage and the issue that you bring up has been an issue for over 40 years you know um I mean yeah I mean I I I was involved when I was with the police department I was
involved in the realignment of the uh the end of the road where we put a turn lane in because there used to be rear enders there like twice yeah at Northore goes on and uh putting that turn which is great but it still goes on But that was that was a solution to problems that
were happening out on uh 517 not Northshore I know the the lake has worked with the police department over the years with a whole bunch of different solutions All of them cost money That's one of the things they've they've put guards out there to you know
to check stickers um that works for a while and you know and then but short of putting someone there all the time or putting a gate in um you know it's they don't work It's a difficult situation Check out my rock wall every time they hit them They get flat tires on a
regular basis in front of my house The other thing that was done was the there was a weight limit put on the bridge down by at the end of the boardwalk That was to that's to try and get the uh the trucks to not cut through Uh the problem is it it it then forces them to cut
through either Northshore or Southshore to go to the golf club instead of continuing on west shore because they're supposed to go that direction They're not supposed to be coming from Northshore all the way to the country club or any of the businesses in the plaza I know some of them do but that's that's one for the police department to
enforce Yeah I've been talking with Chief McCarrick about that because I'm one of the people that pushed for the four ton weight restriction Um Dean can attest to that Um but the other thing too is and Joan touched on this when
something happens on Route 15 like there was ice down at the bottom of the hill where 181 and 15 meet there was a big huge ice patch so everybody got backed up on 181 people get pissed They go down 517 into Newton Or when Reverend Brown and Pope John get out at 241 I can't get
out of my road People cut through There's all kinds of issues up at the 181 517 intersection and the former mayor winds up in a telephone pole because of an accident Stuff like that goes on all of the time So I'm curious to see how we can resolve that but also
make sure that we don't have the overflow into the rural roads or the small the smaller roads as well not just the counties Oh that's as we talked about you know traffic is the the number one issue and it's an overall you know it's an overall view of traffic not
just one specific place We want to try and look at look at all of those um issues you know as a whole Um you know I I just think out loud you know can you imagine what town would be like if roof 15 the highway hadn't been built you
know Um thank goodness we have that bypass in the town Um it doesn't help that the far end of town but it does help the downtown area you know because um traffic in the late 60s early 70s was backed up to the bowling alley to to try
and make the turn down here That's why the jug handle was put in Um but it's yeah traffic is the number one issue Just to expand on that you're not a bride We need we need people like you to
come forward to have these conversations to put that information out there to let us know where all those trouble spots are not just in Lake Mohawk but elsewhere to to Jones at this point It's ridiculous No I I understand And and as
much as we we hear all of these things and we want to put all these things and all these considerations into the master plan to Dean's point what we're doing is overarching right so what it comes down to is that once the master plan's in
place and we give the guidance then it's then it's up to the council to put the ordinances in place to you know and then of course the police department and so on to enforce all of those laws that get put in place based on you know the analysis that's done and and the
recommendations that come out there So we unfortunately it's a process and I hate to say that especially to you because I know how passionate you are about this I'm just as passionate but I we we would love to see you know something happen tomorrow would
absolutely love it I I don't know if that's feasible but um you know I mean now that the conversation is started amongst everyone the council is talking to the planning board planning board's talking to zoning boards subcommitteees out there talking to the public but just
keep coming Keep coming Keep keep on us Keep us keep us accountable That's that's all I'm asking Guys sorry Sorry Dean No keep us accountable please I built tunnels sinkles So me an hour and a half to get here
from Basking Ridge because of the sink holes So far in the last couple weeks it's been alpaca farms It's been cheap and it's almost dying on Route 15 coming up here because somebody decided to ride on the shoulder of the road
And that's just Wednesday in my world So I think um I you could be a brat Um but I I I think maybe you and Mike should exchange information because it sounds like you two are the only ones concerned about traffic But
um but I think th this is the kind of stuff where uh we do need the public to engage Um reach out however you can because I look at stuff uh really far in advance or like I I learned to do that
um geologic timelines It's it's a long time Uh so if anyone knows my house hey take my time Um so slow slow and steady Um but I I
think these uh these personal um observations are really helpful in the same way that again uh the planning board you know we're supposed to make decisions based on uh our specific
knowledge local knowledge So you're coming in here you're saying on this road it's bad Um I don't know maybe there's a lot of cut through there Not sure But uh if if everyone in town in these trouble spots were to report it
what that would signal to me is as we're putting together the master plan that's this living document 15 to 20 years in the future 15 is is the big trafficked area but what happens when uh 15 is you know it's it's it's kind of like a
progressive like cardiovascular disease like it's going to continue to get clogged And these kind of observations are showing us well what does local traffic do what does truck traffic do it when that's clogged it's moving taking
side streets So I think that's valuable for a master plan because we can kind of say we need we need to be thinking 15 20 50 years in the future for planning It's planning It's not dealing with the present It's planning for the future
right so yeah keep coming Keep being the brat that you might be I didn't say it I'll keep pestering you guys Yeah Thank Ann Lukak and I'm a resident of Sparta
Um thank you for um all the people on the master planning committee Um I know how much hard work that must have been and um you'll still have more hard work ahead of you Um so um I you know definitely open
space is something that I'm I would like to propose but also um one of the things that I was thinking that a master plan should um really think about is the architectural style of the buildings
that are especially in the downtown area because recently I've seen a few buildings in the downtown area that have been knocked down and um what's been built doesn't necessarily go with the architectural style um that I think was
originally planned in the town Um I'm not sure but at one point when I first moved to town I thought that there was a style called the Colonial Williamsburg style that was in our master plan And I was just wondering if that was something
that is actually in the master plan and if if it is if it's something that we're going to um consider in the future Um so the master plan is not a regulatory document but it does dictate
what can happen within your regulatory documents So one of the things that actually came out quite um frequently in the survey was looking for design standards as well as sign standards Um so those are things that you can have in
your zoning ordinance Um you can have them as part of your site plan review where you have standards of the way things are built Um I do work in the city of Summit and they have quite an extensive design guideline within their
development regulation ordinance Um and it goes down to things as specific as the roof pitch Um and there are items that you can do within your um ordinance that can kind of um for streetscapes you can say you know sidewalks have to be
this wide and you have to have a street tree every x amount of feet You have to use certain type of pavers um the street lights you can go as specific as the um the specification of the street uh street lights that are used Um and all
of these things are things that we will consider in the master plan I think that as we dig deeper into it we'll kind of start developing standards of things that are looked at favorably within the township and ways that we can encourage the continued development of things in
that same order So things as specific as materials that are used on the buildings like I said roof pitches um streetscape design standards as well specifically in your downtown to make sure that there's that cohesive um look throughout the downtown And then as we kind of start
proposing things like sidewalks and walkability you can continue those design standards to create that connectivity between different places in town as well So sorry I lose my voice Um so once
we do have those design standards then they're enforcable Um so somebody wouldn't be able to just knock down a building and build something that looks like it's from Florida So once it's codified so you'll legally speaking it's very difficult to
tell someone they cannot knock down a building Um but you can create design standards and you can codify them and say you for example in a retail space you can say things like "We want open
windows in your downtown We don't want um glazed windows We don't want signage covering the windows." Um in terms of homes like I said you can put roof pitches so there's no flat roofs which in this part of the country probably wouldn't make sense anyways Um but there
are different items like that that you can do to ensure that the type of development that is being done is done in a cohesive way Okay Thank you You can and one thing before you go Um a lot of people when they think of the master plan they think
there's a comprehensive document and it's about 100 pages long and you know it's hard to read but also the master plan includes several elements um and includes amendments related specifically to certain zones There is an existing
town center amendment If you go onto the town website all the master plan documents are there You'll see one there for town center Take a look at it And I think what you're going to see and there's a lot of what you're you're looking to see Now the question is you know the next step you know do we need
to beef it up and then following what Dean was saying is does that now need to get fed into the ordinances so we can support it but I think if you're really concerned with the town center I would look at that specific document and you can find it online at the um at the
master plan survey um the website Thank you I think uh if you also want to take a look at the read through the ordinance find the ordinance um or the the zones um in in the local code and
you can actually you can read those uh adopted ordinances that go with the zones with the design standards and you can see that there there is contemplation of what you're talking about In the past I believe also Lake Mohawk had an architectural review
committee So if you look at White Tier Plaza you'll see kind of varying degrees of you know intent And then I think probably around the 70s a lot of that started to kind of peter out But there was certainly that was one of the
foremost earliest planned communities in the late 20s early 30s They had an intent Um I'm not sure if you were talking about um the Colonial Williamsburg Are you talking about the uh um Powder Horn Green off Southshore
Trail if if you're talking about Lake Mohawk I'm not sure if you were just Okay So there is It's just a rumor that I heard So there's a colon back in the 90s when I moved here So yeah So it would it's probably the colonial village um which is a group of houses that are
modeled after um historic homes Dean's shaking her head now so I'll wait to be corrected but um but it's a it's the the um Powder Magazine from Williamsburg and then uh surrounding our um historic
houses But look if you look at the um the zoning code you can read through And then as far as demolishing I had I have the same concern I mean we've had some revolutionary uh era buildings that have been torn
down Um in the community that that I'm from um I'm not from here Uh my wife is but in our community there you had to notice There was very specific notice requirement with like a big sign letters
a certain size um and visible from the street Uh you had public notice that you were demolishing a building Uh you had to notice the local historic um society Um and so that would give them time to
kind of survey the building and at least take pictures draw it up so that it was you know saved But it would also allow members of the public to say "Look you know this is uh um a really important building and you know maybe you don't realize this." And so it it gave a
little bit of time I think it was a 30 to 45day initial uh notice and then if anyone um wrote a letter to planning and zoning um it would trigger an additional 30-day review And so that to me kind of
is a no-brainer and actually use that process to um preserve one of my ancestors houses back to the 1640s in Connecticut um where it it didn't actually stop it from a progress standpoint because to the planner's
point you know a property owner has certain rights to do with what they will But what I found is if you educate the owner like hey this house survived you know uh 1640s it was the first female landowner in the New World and it got
hit by um British cannon fire you know during the Revolutionary War Maybe save this build your mansion over here and you can show this off And so that's what they did So uh I think education is kind of the solution there Um and but helping
that is kind of underpinning it with just just some simple regulation So I appreciate where you're coming from Thank you Thank you Thank you Oh and one more thing Um the person from Andover um just I think everybody like I know
Christine knows um but we do have a trail committee in Sparta and we've been meeting once a month and we would like to reach out to other towns as well So um we'd appreciate the contact information Hi Dean Reinhower Sparta Originally from
Whiteoff in Bergen County a town that had a whole lot of old houses and still does Since I've been here so darn long um there was discussion in the late 1990s what an is referencing by Dave Trost who used to be our township
planner and I think did an amazing job And that's also from Wyoff Pardon he also lives in Wyoff Yes I know And I went to school with his cousins So he and I used to have a lot of conversation and his vision was to kind of have that specifically in what I call the row or
the municipal where this building is and I remember him saying if we have to have Starbucks and what I call the chain things and he's been gone quite a long time now Um he said we should have them out on 15 We should have like the clove berries of the world you know the mom
and pop going to what what an is alluding to about that Williamsburg old because honestly for a town as large as Sparta I don't think we have a big historical area which brings in Ernie Hoffer who used to be uh for 20 years the planning board chair and Will
Hookway who is the vice chair uh they wanted to have a historical designation um significance and um it for some reason it didn't get approved but they spent an awful lot of time and I found it and I think a lot of people in town were very surprised that we were going
weren't going to make any effort around that time I began my service to Lake Mall Country Club and I was on the board for 15 years and I have always wanted to and alluding to what Rob was talking about there is a board member who shall remain nameless who wanted to tear down
Lake Mohawk Country Club I had conversations with previous um council members saying "You need to find an ordinance a code something." I said "That's a $5 million asset on the township tax roles." And I said "So that contributes quite a bit of revenue to
the town You don't want somebody to tear it down." And they talked about "Oh put in a Waffle House." And this guy was serious Okay And I said "So people at the town council at the time were looking at me like well what do you want us to do?" I said "It's a big ratable It's a historic building It has that
little designation thing Write something I don't know Ask the lawyer what what to do but do something so they can't tear it down They might be able to make modifications do some things adjust with a business flow but you're never going to recreate that building." So I just
want to definitely put that out from the plan thing And I do think Dave Trost was right about trying to preserve the character I mean I think in a town like Woff today you do have McDonald's but it doesn't look like a McDonald's It looks more like the Hilton Head It looks like
it blends in And you know if people want to have that type of food whatever at least it could look like it belongs in the town So that's what go to Montlair and take a look They do have a historic preservation overlay
which is a really nice thing to have And it is something I know I know costs money We have to figure out how to how to get that part done I agree with the comments that were just made Um I also just want to review the water issue Um
just so everyone knows that there has been a USGS study that was done in the Catskills that confirmed that logging does um affect water quality And I know there were some comments made um previous that I'd like to just correct a
little bit because as we look at the master plan I think this is an important part The Highlands region does provide the water to over 70% of the state And whenever you look at development and look at where large parcels of land need to be cleared uh this USGS study does
say that clear cutting caused a large release of nitrates and aluminum after harvest And in conclusion what they say is the increase in nitrogen concentration measured after harvesting is completely
accounted for by the decrease of nitrogen uptake by watershed trees rather rather than the increase in nitrogen mineralization and neutrification So whereas this gentleman mentioned that
even trout organizations approve the logging it's because many of the organizations that like logging also receive federal funding And we'll see what happens now with what's happening on our federal side of the world But
they receive federal grants And not that I'm against the federal grants but we just want to do the right thing for the people of Sparta for the people to protect our water water is a huge issue We already know we have issues with um pas and the forever chemicals in our
water And so as we look as the master plan and looking at we have already have to address that issue because Sparta does have it in high levels in certain wells And there was a misstatement made by this gentleman um that talked earlier
Uh our group New Jersey Forest Watch has actually original members who helped protect Sparta Mountain from a developer back in the day Um and uh what's interesting is that on the original sign right as you come in off of Edison Road
it used to say Sparta Mountain and it was a joint venture with the Victoria Foundation Green Acres and New Jersey Audabon And because of the quote controversy that this issue has brought the state decided doesn't have money to
do other things but decided to change all of the signs in the state to call them now wildlife management areas The only thing that needs to be managed is people not nature And I think we all can
agree in many ways that this is something that is very interesting when we hear the term wildlife management Um my last point um which is kind of interesting as well is that I will leave with all of you that when we think about
um how our open spaces need to be respected they are for everyone They're not just for certain groups or certain birds or certain species that may be um the species of preference for that time
but we really need to look at a comprehensive and look at I think someone mentioned doing environmental assessments studies That's something that you all should know that the state has never done There's degradation that's happened There has been um vernal
pools impacted the the logging I think you also mentioned steep slopes If you've been on Sparta Mountain that is a steep slope heavily rock area precamrian um in its geology That's not an area
that should be logged And yet you know the state continues So with that I'd like to just close that I hope that all of us here honor and respect what the residents said in the survey and that we all work towards not seeing our open
spaces being um logged uh for private interests so that they can make their money and profit off of that when all of us should be able to enjoy those lands So thank you I don't know if you have any questions If you want that uh USGS
study I can forward it to you because water quality is something we haven't really addressed and we need to especially with the forever chemicals This is a big topic I just wanted to ask you if you had attended uh the presentation that the state did on their
logging on Sparta Mountain Yes I was here I was present So I was there too Um so I mean I I think we probably need to right move on from here but sure totally hear all those points and uh yeah um I I
have separate comments as a resident but yeah Okay Thank you I would I would just clarify too that you misspoke It's not true to say that the township has done nothing to protect the water and is not focused on PAS That that's all happening as well So that's that's a little bit inaccurate Okay I appreciate that
because the public is not aware of that like I don't I haven't heard anything been last year was a big topic at a lot of council meetings okay um funding conversations and um kind of what's happening with our water systems so there's already actions in place okay to
start addressing PAS specifically and um we've joined a class action lawsuit last year for protection to possibly get funding to support that and there's grants so that a lot of that has happened and also there's been a lot of water quality protections for the aquafer Maybe not as much as
some would like but there is you know always there's always room to grow in that but there is protections that are in place and that the township has done over the years too So just to level set on that No I appreciate that And as a public resident who has maybe one of those affected wells you know it's good
to know that the town is looking at that because that is something of a great concern You know we all need to be concerned of that because these chemicals are not going away That's why they call him forever unfortunately Thank you Okay Thank you Anybody
else bring it back to the deis Anybody okay Thank you Um well great discussion Uh a lot as as you've all been saying a lot of work to be done Um but we're looking forward to to doing it for our community We have two other things uh or one other thing on the
agenda which are the updates Um so we can quickly move through them I'm sure First one is from town council Uh at that last town council meeting the uh town council passed the uh filming resolution that endorses
uh the efforts of our firm for of our uh filming council that is trying to bring movie uh movies to our town utilize our town and we're trying to conform with the state standards and and be part of that
be part of that effort Um and as I also said we uh made the resolution to align ourselves at least for uh the moment with the state master plan at this point
Um the count and the county master plan and we have the option of working with the Highlands Council correct at any time I think that's right Right Lindsay Okay thank you I couldn't
see you if you were looking at me Right So we should hear from both right thank you Thank you Um environmental commission Yes Thank you We have several exciting things happening on the environmental
commission as usual The first thing that we did at our meeting which was on April 10th is is we looked at the Westshore Trailbridge project and um I believe that was mentioned earlier in the evening and they're going to be um the state is
going to be um redoing the bridge perhaps widening it um taking out those those bumps that were mentioned Um we looked at the blueprint and the application and what um the only question we had one of the only
questions we had was is what is the impact going to be to the stream wildlife that are downstream and we weren't sure um that they were monitoring before and then during and then after to see if there's any impact
And so our chair will be sending um um a letter to them so they can clarify Yeah So that was one thing And then another thing was is we had learned that um the town council had um pass the
land use pledge for our sustainable New Jersey certification So we're very grateful for that Thank you Um a reminder that at Sparta Middle School on May 3rd there's going to be a
big bash because every day is Earth Day at Sparta Middle School This is May 3rd from 10:00 to 2 Um we are still pursuing and uh looking
at the um and hoping that we we will be able to have a speaker that talks about deer management since there's much concern about that from our community So we're hoping to get a presenter from NJD
um to speak to that um and perhaps uh even develop some sort of a plan uh for Sparta in the future help us in that direction at least The rain barrel workshop was such a huge success uh last
year that we're thinking of scheduling that again Perhaps as suggested by Neil we could do that on Sparta Day And um that's just about it We're working on um we're working on Sparta
Day We're working on tree ordinance updates And we participated in collecting hundreds of pounds of rubbish around the Blue Heron area at uh Bagot Day Uh we hope to have another bag at
day perhaps in the fall Um currently um our chair um has suggested that we uh think about read about um a resolution
um that um is going around various towns relating to packaging And this is called the packaging product stewardship act And um whereas 40% of plastics
produced are used for packaging and there's a plan throughout the next decade to reduce this So this would be something that we'll be discussing at our next meetings Um and that's all I have Rob
I think uh I think you covered it right I um there was something I was thinking of uh but I think you got it We've been busy busy beavers Oh yeah I wanted to
ask you um what was the the top item with the baget day trash collection because I think it is worth noting I'm going to keep bringing it up I I've I've heard about it Yes I I think it was like what was it like a a bed frame or No the
most frequent a toilet What clearly those little fireball or vab that's what I find Yeah So people must be just they're to right after they get off of
15 before they go home They're tossing it They're tossing it and then going home That's in every town coming into town and even has the same problem with those little fireball walls Yeah So all sorts of treasures Um so
please um consider joining us in the fall if we do the baggot day Um you'll f may find a treasure You never know a real treasure What's the Are there salvage rules do we get to keep the treasure
would you want to keep No Well all right So the reason I brought it up is because those little alcohol bottles that are frequent you know we have Ernie here Um and if anyone's looked it's kind of something that popped up on my radar that um towns have either tried to ban
the sale of those um or uh they've instituted um collection recycling programs And uh some of them have earned about $70,000 a year in uh turning in those little
bottles for five or 10 cents which just think of the sheer number of them And um uh Beth is still in the audience So I mean I I've noticed a lot of those little bottles uh on our street and it
just is interesting but it's uh a little bit concerning to me because you consider well how did those get there so problem for someone else maybe but no no they're getting rid of that Yeah I
just I have a question about recycling if you don't mind Um there are different types of styrofoam and I'm not sure which ones get recycled You have the peanuts you have the blocks of styrofoam So I was told the blocks
could be but not the peanuts I've heard that I've heard that um the spongy what we would consider the spongy styrofoam No but the like the block you know that surrounds the computer screen
that you know you brought home that is made into the uh molding and such and you can bring that right over to Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority How do you know this so that was computer packaging It would snap if you tried to
break that too Well some it depends on what peanuts some of them are biodegradable Some of them there's also um there's also peanuts that started being used quite a few years ago and I know UPS used to use them I don't know anymore
but they're made out of cornstarch and they just melt You can because they're different they're yellow They're yellowishy and you can pour water on them and they'll just melt and which is fine It sounds like it's something we can ask environmental uh commission for clarification and get back to I'm just
curious because I was reading about another town that has styrofoam recycling uh coming up this weekend So so one thing people should know because I don't know we don't get a lot of uh audience at the Environmental Commission but just so everyone's aware uh if you
think of soft plastics which would be kind of the shrink wrap plastic around water bottles if you're buying water bottles PAS bombs um if if you're uh plastic that you can easily squish into your hand uh if you start
collecting that you will be surprised how much you can collect And uh there's a drop off at Skuma but there's also a drop off at Ocean State Job Lot in the front I believe And if you take a picture of that and email it um it
should be on the website but there's a program where uh the a school is trying to earn a a free uh a bench made of recycled bench All right Can you Yeah get 1,000 pounds I believe it is right yeah And and it is surprising once you
start bagging it I know planning and zoning uh some of the office the municipal office um staff has started collecting some of that and they they're pitching in So I would urge people to take a look at that Uh instead of throwing it out you can actually recycle
it Um yeah it's a TX program Um Cara Johnson is doing it with her green team at the Sparta Middle School that email You have that email So So you could take a picture of it but do you have the email
and all that is that you could go to Sparta Middle School maybe and and get Cara Johnson's email but she's she's saving for that I remember when I taught at Pope John we got a couple of bird houses a couple of benches That's early
on It was easy to to get prizes then Now people are doing it But um but yeah um and I think but I'm not sure if you missed the um the lecture the EC when we
invited the recycle coordinator from Skamua to our meeting She gave a full presentation and I believe it's posted it might be posted on the town website for the EC page So uh you could go back
and get a lot of those answers to your questions One thing that astounded me is is that don't take off the bottle the bottle top you know leave it on because when it goes through a conveyor they're looking for that that bottle cap to be
there for it to qualify as being recycled for some reason So there's actually uh it it uses cameras and automates the process So uh normally I think everyone's probably used to taking the screw top off of a soda bottle or a water bottle Uh if you do that it makes
it harder for the camera to recognize that that's a bottle and sort it appropriately So um yeah the presentation if it's posted it would be worthwhile to watch Yeah fascinating tidbits YouTube Oh yeah I need
something else Thank you All right Thank you Um Rob an update from the minor site plan Do how how detailed do you want me to go here i mean not well anyway I mean very generally
okay so um so we've we've referred uh an application to the full planning board a couple times We're still working on that It's pretty complex Um we have referred uh a few Pilates
um I mean specifically you know to uh well so all right so we've had uh some Pilates um uh applications have come in and they're
just they're they they're not zoned for that So basically all we can do for minor site plan is look at what the m municipal land use uh and the local code tells us So I would kind of like I guess
use this as a platform to say um minor site plan looks at a lot of applications and part of that might be because our application fee is low Um and I'm going to maybe get myself into trouble in saying that uh the employees and the
volunteers are doing a lot of work to review these um to determine you know can we even um move these applications forward or should they you know do we then send them to planning or zoning um
so I'd kind of ask the public I don't think any of you probably here today but if this is heard by someone else please look at the application It's very detailed When you try to start a business in Sparta we're contrary to
what people may say we're not anti-b businessiness We look forward to business But it's very simple Go step by step Fill in everything to the best of your ability Um and and check that the parcel that you're trying to put a
business in uh the use that you're trying to to put into that parcel uh is is allowed It's it's um it's straightforward If it's not allowed then the minor site plan can't approve it That's it's beyond us It's
it's not us trying to be difficult We just have to refer it on So this is what a lot of this is is we've we have a very complex application with a restaurant Um it it was referred to planning board several times We have a Pilates uh a
couple Pilates applications but they're they're not zoned So when we talk about this town is supposed to look a certain way there's design standards there's intensity of uses and it all comes together in what we think makes the most
sense for current and future traffic and all we're doing is adhering to that If you if the members even of the public disagree with that I would welcome them to suggest new ordinances or changes to the code but I'm not no one can go past
what the local uh zoning code offers And so I rely on that and we do our best I know the employees do their best and um so yeah if you could just help us I mean
I heard I'm I'm still learning this So my training was um I I get a couch and I try to put it in my living room Uh if it doesn't fit in my living room it's a a bulk variance and it's going to have to go to the
planning board If I decide I want to put it in my kitchen instead it's a use variance and it's go to zoning board Uh and it's kind of as straightforward as that So I encourage you to you know talk to planning and zoning do your application but please fill it all out
and please don't try to circumvent the system because it'll just get kicked back and it's just wasting people's time So um I don't know I don't know that there is any specific other applica Okay No just with the Pilates though you said
it's not zoned but I just to clarify it is in c it's allowed in certain zones and not mentioned in the ordinance in others which if it's not mentioned it's prohibited Yeah So some zones if it's not mentioned it's presumed uh prohibited presumed prohibited Yes So so
can't grant waivers Yeah So if it's uh if it's not listed it's presumed prohibited Uh if people do not agree with that then we just need to fix the zoning and add uses in that zone But until such time that's what we're
relying on Thank you I think that concludes all of our business Um I thank everybody Can I just say say one thing of course Mr Rel to to the minor site plan if I could You know one one of the the big issues I think we're all seeing is signs
You know there's a lot of that are going up that we just can't get evidence that they were approved or not Some are some are bigger than we think they should be but they may have gotten variances We can't prove it Some are internally lit Again may have got a variance but we
can't prove it So I I think you know Mark I'm look to you if I can get some help No And and Dean I think you're both on the new business committees Sorry Both on on the new business committees What what I'd like to do is if would you mind just
reminding people if anyone's going to put up a new sign there are approvals that have to occur before because I'm not sure that message is out We actually heard from one one applicant we brought in that they didn't know they had to come to us They thought someone else had the approval authority So it just it will help everybody just make sure
people know and if they could bring that back to the Chamber of Commerce and just get the word out so it will avoid a lot of frustration down the road Well and I think I've said enough but uh I just want to add the I think the sign that you're talking about where they got they
said that they already had approval that was within Lake Mohawk So that has an additional step Lake Mohawk has to get approval by uh the Lake Mohawk engineer but the engineer will always say if you if you read what's prepared it says
subject to township approval So you do need to do that step two the township is going to need the approval from Lake Mohawk for anything within Lake Mohawk Then you take that to uh the the town um offices and then you complete your
application I I agree But but you know just again just to be clear it's not just Lake Mo we're seeing it I think we're seeing it in TCC1 in the econom you know when we talk about T the the town center where you wanted to have that historic look signs can make a difference right you know if
you want a historic looking building have historic looking signs as opposed to big internal boxes Um and and the ordinances steer you in that direction So again it's just I I think it's just an awareness because I'm not sure that
the business community is totally aware No thank you Ron as Dean and I can attest to there's been a lot of discussion about that in just the two meetings that we've had this year and we're and we're formulating our ideas on how to
put together a a brochure a book a guide as to how you get open I'm sorry how you open a business here in Spark That's great Okay Very good Yes And if they could just check the ordinances before coming to minor site plan because then they'll
know we if it needs a variance or a waiver we can't do it Okay Um I'm not going to forget this time Is there any other business from the public anybody want to speak on matters that have not been heard
already just telling everybody to zip it Okay with that then um entertain a motion to adjurnn I'll make a motion to adjurnn I'll second that Who thirds it all right motion to adjurnn Thank you
everybody for