Please take notice that action will be taken on the following items at the regular council meeting on Tuesday, April 22nd, 2025 in council chambers, Sparta Township Municipal Building, 65 Main Street, Sparta, New Jersey. Uh the time is 7:00. Uh the regular meeting is
now open. All council meetings are now livereamed and can be viewed at the following link. https www.youtube.com at spartatwpstreams. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided to the public and press on
January 10th, 2025 by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice. Uh, Madame Clerk, may I have a roll call, please? Councilman Scott here. Councilman Bli here. Councilman Cherello, I'm here. Deputy Mayor Murphy here. Mayor Clark,
here. Thank you. Please stand and salute the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Okay. Tonight we have uh one proclamation. Uh it is uh alcohol awareness month. Um, we do not have a representative for this. Uh, but I will read the proclamation. Alcohol Awareness Month.
Whereas each April since 1987, the National Council on Alcohol and Drug Dependence Incorporated has sponsored Alcohol Awareness Month to increase public awareness and understanding, reduce stigma, and encourage local communities to focus on alcoholism and alcoholrelated issues. And whereas
researchers estimate that over 178,000 people die each year in the United States from alcohol-related causes and incidents, including motor vehicle accidents. Every day, 385 Americans die as a result of excessive alcohol use.
Worldwide, up to three million people die every year as a result. And whereas adults ages 26 and older who began drinking before age 15 are three and a half times more likely to report having an alcohol use disorder than those who waited until age 21 or older to begin
drinking. About 2.3 million adolescents aged 12 to 17 drank alcohol in the last 30 days. And about 1.2 million adolesccents ages 12 through 17 binge drank within the last 30 days. And whereas it is imperative that we join
forces with other individuals and agencies to embrace those affected within our community and pro provide paths to counseling and proper support in an effort to confront and combat this issue collectively and with empathy. Now therefore, be it resolved by the
township council of the township of Sparta that the month of April be proclaimed as alcohol awareness month and encourage all citizens, government agencies, organizations, healthc care providers, and research institutions help prevent underage consumption and
adult misuse of alcohol and continue to raise alcohol awareness to help people live longer, healthier lives. Thank you. And what I will do, I'm going to um normally we would have Lisa Lombardo uh from the Municipal Alliance uh who couldn't be here, but we see her uh I
know the chief and I see her at the opioid recovery uh settlement conferences that we have. I think one's coming up if I'm not m Yeah. So, what I may do is can I hand this to you, Chief? And if you go, would you mind giving this to her? Thank you. All right. So folks are probably
wondering why we have uh our fine young men and women in blue with us tonight. Uh the reason for that is um is the Sparta Police accreditation. Uh they just underwent an accreditation process uh for which they I guess passed. I
don't know if that's the right word. Um but we have uh Harry Delgado from the police chief's association uh to speak to us about the accreditation process, what it means and and then um and how that was bestowed upon our uh Sparta Police Department. So thank you Mr.
Delgado for being here. I'm glad you made it. Uh and like I said, you're not uh talking to us from a sinkhole and I 80. So it is my pleasure, Mayor. And it wasn't it wasn't a bad drive at all. So, um, I'm here I'm I'm really proud to be here
today because as part of Township Police Department has actually achieved accreditation. Um, and just to add context to that, it's only about 54% of all the law enforcement agencies in the state of New Jersey that have actually made it through this process and actually can say that they were accredited and that includes
prosecutor's office, includes um, colleges and universities, sheriff's officers, etc. So the whole gamut of uh lawful law enforcement agencies may be able to uh participate and join but not obviously all of them make it. So if you
indulge me for a couple of minutes, I'd like to share with you the significance of the achievement. So the Sparta Police Department has made a commitment to adhering to best practices at the state and national level in a highly regarded statewide law enforcement accreditation program. This program administered to the New Jersey State Association of
Chiefs of Police and the New Jersey Law Enforcement Accreditation Commission has helped to transparently demonstrate the professionalism and preparedness of state's law enforcement agencies. It is designed to enhance professionalism and transparency in the state's public safety system. So during these uniquely
challenging times and a threat to our health and safety, encouraging law enforcement agencies to follow standardized practices and policies is a potentially lifesaving and cost effect excuse me cost effective investment of time and resources. So accredit accreditation status represents a sign a
significant professional achievement. Now in this process I said there's now uh 118 standards in the state of New Jersey, many of which require multiple proofs of uh compliance. So we're talking in excess of 400 post of uh compliance uh just to meet the uh the
basic standards. Uh so um the process is certainly very rigorous uh but it's one worthwhile. It is a process and the foundationalizing the adoption of standards containing a clear statement of professional objectives. It is a progressive and timeroven way of helping law enforcement agencies calculate and
improve their overall performances. For those that say what's in FMA as some of uh you know our citizens typically asked us research shows that accredited agencies have 11% fewer professional liability claims 11% fewer worker compensation claims and 31 fewer auto
liability claims. This information this data comes from the mail itself. Moreover, municipalities who participate in the mail affiliated joint as I believe you do uh extend to receive substantial insurance premium discounts when the police department obtains accreditation. Now accreditation beside
these fiscal advantages they provide object objective evidence of an agency's commitment to excellence in leadership resource management and service delivery. Government officials can be more confident in the agency's ability to operate efficiently and meet community
needs. Officers as I see many here tonight can take pride that they have been objectively recognized for the professionalism and adhering to the highest standards. there is a final report that actually you know it's uh originated based on the on-site assessment as we call it that's inerson
visit and um um at that point the report is generated I get to review it and if in fact it passes at the mayor you know so uh clearly stated then I submit it to the uh accreditation commission with a recommendation to accept and then the uh
the agency goes to the hearing but one of the things that we always say about this process this process is transformational It puts it makes you know it actually puts the agency through a such a process that is not the same uh that entered the process and I typically have some things that I share with the
public about that but in this case I couldn't have said it better than the chief himself. So in a letter that he actually submitted to the assessors uh he said uh uh what I'm about to quote you so I'll say under the leadership of Chief Jerry McCarrick a high level of competence leadership and professionalism is evident within the
agency. Now I quote Chief McCarrick, "As a team, the members of our police department, both sworn and civilian employees at every level, have dedicated themselves to ensuring we achieve these high standards set forth by the state chief's association accreditation uh accreditation team. With this dedication
comes the utmost val experience we all gain in self-reflecting who we are as an agency. The process has given us the opportunity to identify areas of improvement, visualize our future, and most importantly work together as a team. I am confident you will experience the utmost professionalism, integrity
and dedication from every member of our department. I could not have said it by myself. So another thing that I'd like to say is typically when we come here to the in person, there might be some items because there's so many proofs of uh uh compliance that we might, you know, have to review. In the case of this part of Danch Police Department, they have none.
So they pass with an a mayor. And so finally in closing, I'll say that it is the opinion of the assessment team that this part of police department is a highly professional and committed agency which exemplifies all of the tenants of law enforcement accreditation at the state and national level. Therefore, it
is indeed my honor here tonight on behalf of the New Jersey State Association of Chiefs of Police and the New Jersey Law Enforcement Commission to congratulate Chief Jerry McCarrick, accreditation manager, Captain Thomas Snyder, the members of the Sparta Police Department, the mayor, the uh excuse me, the mayor of the councils and those
citizens that they so proudly serve for having achieved accreditation, joining a very very exclusive group of law enforcement agencies that have made this clear commitment to excellence in policing. So, to all indeed, congratulations. This is where you get the coffee.
Mayor, well to serve, I'd like to present you the chief in, you know, the agency with their accreditation certificate. Congratulations to you. Very much. First of all, thank you for coming up. Um, appreciate uh you giving a overall
of the accreditation process. Uh, like I said, it takes a team. Um, I have a lot of my team here tonight. Uh, both our sworn and civilian employees and our administration part of the team, our public, our community is a big part of
the team. We can't do it without you. Your support means the world to us. We're going to keep working hard. This is just the beginning of things that we want to do with the department. We want to keep moving forward and um we're all going to do it together. That's all I have to say. Appreciate it. Every single one of you being here
tonight means a lot to me. Means a lot to the agency. Most importantly, proud of yourselves. Good work. Good. All right. All right. Well, I know everyone is extremely proud and happy of our the police force that we have. Um, but we
will now move on to more mundane matters. Uh, we have the minutes. Um, so may I have a motion to approve the March 11th, 2025 regular meeting minutes as presented? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as presented. May I have a
second, please? I will second. All those in favor say I. I. I. The March 11th, 2025 regular meeting minutes as presented um have been approved. We're now up to the manager's report. Uh Mr. Zep, may I uh may you present the
manager's report? Sure. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor, Council, Sparta residents, both present and online. Happy Earth. Last week was animal control officers appreciation week and Sparta is fortunate to have Don Critow serving as
the township's animal control officer. Don's Don works tirelessly every day to protect both the animals and people in our community. Thank you, Don, for everything you do. Fortunately, John Don just stepped out of the door here, so we didn't get to hear this, but it's recorded. So, I'm excited to announce a
couple of upcoming events in Sparta. The Sparta Township Environmental Commission invites you to the Earth Day Fair at Sparta Middle School on Saturday, May 3rd from 10:00 a.m. to 2 pm. This event is co-sponsored with the Sparta Middle School environmental club. This is free
family-friendly event with feature numerous exhibitors from conservation organizations throughout New Jersey and a kids corner with hands-on activities and crafts for children. Additionally, the Sparta Historical Society will open the Vancirk Museum to the public. While
admission is free, we kindly ask that you bring a non-perishable item for the Sparta Community Food Pantry. The annual Trout Derby will be held on Saturday, May 17th from 9:00 a.m. to noon at the Station Park Pond. Registration is not required, and there's no cost to participate, but we
ask for donations of non-p perishable food items for the Sparta Community Food Pantry. Our annual paper shred event will take place on Saturday, May 31st at Town Hall, Rain or Shine, from 9:00 a.m. to noon. This year, we are adding electronic device recycling, commonly
known as e-waste, to this event. Please see more information on the township's website. As a reminder, Sparta residents can visit the town website and sign up to receive alert notifications through the Rave alert system. Currently, there's a lot of road work being done
locally, mostly gas line installations, but also on the county and state roads. By signing up, you can receive notifications about these types of projects. Additionally, Sparta business owners should remember that all portable advice uh advertisement signs must be
renewed annually before the deadline of June 15th each year. More information can be found under the Sparta Township General Code sections 4-17.1 through4-17.7 or by calling the planning and zoning office at
973-729-893. Following the recent planning board meeting, the master plan survey results are now available on the township's website under the news flash section. The recreation and parks department are pleased to announce the spring summer brochure for programs. Events,
workshops, and activities for all ages in our community. Registration for Sparta residents is now open. And for non-residents, registration starts tomorrow, April 23rd. Please visit the website or contact the recreation office for program availability. There are
still openings in most age groups for summer day camp at Camp Saka Jera. So don't wait too long to register your child for camp. from our library. I understand there's a new fish tank. All are invited to read a book and check out the new
aquarium. Lastly, I was reminded by Councilman Scott that this Saturday is April 26 is clean out your medicine cabinet day. From 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. Sparta Police Department lobby has a dropbox to receive expired or unused medicines. For other dropbox locations,
please visit the township website under news flash. This concludes my report. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I you all are used to Chief McCary giving his report and uh we understood that the accreditation would take would
take its place. We're doing amazing. All right. May I have a motion to accept the manager's report? Make a motion we accept the manager report. May I have a second, please? I'll second. All those in favor say I. I. Okay, the manager's report has been
approved. Uh we are now at our first uh public comment period. This public comment period is list is uh limited to items that are not on the agenda. So if you see something on the agenda that you want to talk about, now is not the time. Um so and please be mindful of our five
minute limit. Hey Jim Castmore, Sparta. You know when I was a little boy, my father said people scream and holler at you. They have three reasons to do that. One, they're lying. Two, they don't want you to know the truth. Or three, they're
um uh bullying with you. That's probably the word I'm going to use. So, there's ladies in the room. And the last meeting, Mayor, you and I got into it about moving money around, and you said it didn't happen. I said it did. Okay. Well, the first money
moved was on 11:26, 2024. Account number 09-201-55-601-111. Solid waste was moved to 0920155601262. Professional consultants and special services
$151,000. That was solid waste money that got transferred over to professional consultants and fees. Uh, you can do that. Then we go to the next one. January the 14th,
2025. 01203-20-155260 $60,000 legal services 01203-21-18-26230,000 planning board. That one you can't do. You couldn't have done it. Under New Jersey statute,
NJSA40-458 says transfer of budget appropriations may only take place between accounts from November the 1st to December the 31st. That was on January the 14th. Now, prior to all
this, back on March the 27th, I put in an open request to the town and I said, uh, here's what I wrote. All records for all attorneys and professional services related to the town council, planning
board, and zoning board from 17, date of reorganization to March the 15th. And I run wrote below it, detailed invoices. Week later, I got a notice from the town. Hey, we'd like to have another week. No problem. Have another
week. All of a sudden, another week goes by. I emailed the Oprah people and said, "Hey, what happened to my request?" Girl said, "Oh, we respond." Or somebody did. I don't know who did. We responded. Says, "Good afternoon, Mr. Castmore. We have reviewed your opener
request received March the 27th. Please be advised that your record for all records for all attorneys and all professional services related to town council, planning board, and zoning boards is being denied because your request is
vague. I don't know how vague that was, but you're in charge, ma'am, of request. Is that correct? Did you write this back to me? One of my assistant, my deputy. Okay. because they go on to site all kinds of
laws ganet New Jersey partners versus middle sex blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So my question is attorneys here you can just speak it into the mic I'm sorry you can speak it into the microphone and thanks Steve and I'll write it down and then I'll send in
your request but that's what I'm looking for. So if you would tell me how to do that I'd appreciate it. I'm sorry. Could you Can you state your question again? Yep. I'm looking for all records for all attorneys, bills, and all professional
services related to the town council, planning board, and zoning boards. Now, we can make it from January, February, and March. How do I write that request? Well, respectfully, I'm not going to provide you with legal advice on how to comply with the Open Public Records Act.
If you wish to secure that advice, I suggest you seek uh the advice of legal counsel. Okay? Cuz the only other way to remedy this, if I'm reading it correctly, is is uh Superior Court of State New Jersey. And obviously, I don't want to go there. I don't think the town
wants to go there. So, um okay. I mean, I'm not going to get any help here. What I'm looking for is pretty simple. I want to see where this money's been transferred to and how it was spent. Very simple operation. We're talking $241,000
now in a period of 2 months and nobody can tell me where $24ome,000 went to. So, okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Anyone else for public comment uh
related items not on the agenda? And again to just state your name and your address. Good evening, mayor and council members. Um Eric Aren, Lake Resident, Spartan Township. Reason I'm hearing this this part is I was really appalled and embarrassed after watching the I'm
sorry. Can you hear me now? Much better. It's for it's for the the streaming. I can't hear the call if you're not. Yeah, but go ahead. All right. So, the reason I'm here is I was appalled and embarrassed after watching the footage from the last council meeting, Mr. Clark, specifically with the exchange between you and Mr. Castmore. Um, I I
just felt the uh the way that you addressed him, that you raised your voice at him, that you yelled at him, told him to hush, sit down, shut up. I felt that was just absolutely egregious. That's no way to treat a resident of Sparta Township or anywhere, especially when you're a leadership position. I
feel you owe him and you owe everybody else in this room in the township an apology for the way you acted at the last session. Um, another thing in there too, you you went on accusing him of harassing the township. I mean, you're you profess
that you're you're an attorney. That's certainly not a citizen expressing unwelcome viewpoints at an open public meeting. That's a far cry from harassment when he's just questioning things that he has a right to know. Mr. Dash, I'm surprised you you didn't correct him on that, but I just felt that was inappropriate. It was
egregious. And again, I feel either you owe everybody an apology or you own resignation from office. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else with public comment? Joanne Scally, Spartan, New Jersey. I just want to echo um what the last gentleman said. Um, I found it also
appalling what you said to a longtime um, Sparta citizen whose family's been here over a hundred years. All he was doing was inquiring about things that we all um, want to know. And for you to tell someone to shut up, sit down, hush,
it wouldn't go over easily with a lot of people. I'm sure I would not like to be hushed or shut up and sit down when I'm expressing my um opinion and my thoughts. And then you were saying about um you don't want your council spoken to
that way um with inaccuracies. That was your exact words. But yet when Councilwoman Quinn and Councilman Hersburg were here, you were letting it be a field day for inaccurate questions, harassment. Um, I seen Christine Quinn
be harassed from the galley. Um, the heckling her and you not once told people to stop and to stop harassing your council members. So, why are you picking and choosing who you want not to be picked on? Why didn't you stop it
with Christine Quinn? Why didn't you stop it with Josh Herzburg? But now all of a sudden you were up in arms because they're harassing your council. No, you were harassing the public with your shut up, sit down and hush and your
silence when Christine Quinn and Josh Hzburg were harassed and inaccurate questions, inaccurate actu inaccurate accusations hurled at them at every council meeting. And you sat there
quiet and so did you. Um, everyone here sat quietly and not one person said, "Oh, call to, you didn't say call to order. Stop the harassment. Stop the heckling. It's terrible." And I think you owe all of us an apology, but especially Jim Castmore.
He's a senior, long time founder, his family of this town. But yet, you chose to treat him that way. It's appalling. I have no words. Thank you. Thank you. and please send my regards to
uh former Councilman Hzburg and former Councilwoman Quinn. Thank you. I think we should send it. Uh good evening, Mayor, good evening council. Good evening, James Roxan,
Attorney Chief, the audience. I want to little bit empower everybody. Uh just need your name and address for the record. So um Jesse W. So I think first of all my first topic is excuse me Jesse whom W just the first letter and let me
let me tell you why. We we have Daniel's law number one. Daniel's law number two. We also have the office of privacy regarding people's addresses. The chief of police mentioned I'm watching I'm watching you guys on YouTube. And the
chief of police mentioned also like people shouldn't come up and say, "Hey, by the way, I live over here and I'm going away for 30 days." And I really recommend that everybody stop putting in their address. And and you don't need to have the last name, but whether they're
a Sparta resident or Byum or Wayne or Palisades Park, uh they can come and talk. It will be less work for Roxan to to write the last name spelling correctly and the address. I'm just saying with Daniel's one, Daniels 2, and
the Office of Privacy, and now you're on YouTube, there is really no reason for people to put their address on YouTube. You know, oh, I'm I'm a nice little old lady. I've been living here 30 years. I live at this address. it it's just a matter of time
until somebody starts going on the website and and listening to addresses and names. So So I'm Jesse W of Sparta. My second topic is um when when
I watch you on YouTube, I don't know who's talking. I know I know Zep's uh accent, his voice, but when you guys are talking, I don't know who who's talking. So, it would be ideal that there could be maybe a light lit up, whoever's
talking, like when you're in a courtroom, you know, the judge talks, the camera's the judge. The plaintiff talks, the camera's on the plaintiff. The defense talks, the cameras on on the I don't know if we want to have cameras on us, but at least maybe there should
be some kind of light uh when you guys talk. And nobody like I I couldn't see your your names. I, you know, I happen to know James and I happen to know Roxan and I happen to know the lawyer and I happen to know uh the mayor and then I
could Yeah, I know I know Mark and I guess Mark's wife, but you two I I don't know. And when Dan, I talk really fast. My wife reminds me of that all the time. So that's how you can tell who I am. If it's not me, it's somebody else that won't know. But it's a good point. So,
I'm I'm saying as far as the second point is it would be nice if some kind of like green light lights up and and your names are as big as that clock over there. You know, when you're on YouTube, you see the clock, but you don't see anybody's names. That's my second point.
My third point is um you know, we pay our IT guy above 150 grand, less than 200 grand. He has he should take the time to put the different so we have township council then we have planning
then we have zoning and then there's environment it's four different meetings I think it should be in chron chronological order from last to new so when you go on the website the first video that just happened is the newest video so I I think you're now doing it
about eight months so I would say this is the time to get it organized before it's years and years and you know 500 videos they have to reorganize. So that would be my my third topic that uh the IT guy should organize uh the meetings
in chronological order from uh you know the last one you want to see something eight months ago you you go all the way that way you want to see what's happening right now you you open it up and it's there it's the opposite way right now
uh my fourth topic minutes uh Jennifer again I'm watching different council meetings uh Jennifer Derek came up and said, "You know, you guys are in violation of OPMA." So, because you're you're supposed to uh approve the minutes every
60 days. So, not only are you violating OPMA, but you're violating my court order against Sparta. So, in the past, my my activism years was 2008 to 2010. So, some people know me. And at that
time, I had four or five lawsuits. I had three ro recall efforts. I had two petitions. Um I guess Mr. Cath give you 15 seconds just because we have a lot of people here and I got to keep you to the five minutes. Don't take it personally. It's just some maintain order regarding
the five minutes. It's just a policy. It's a policy that you that you created last August and you made it a resolution. It's not a it's not an ordinance, not the law. So and and many times again I've seen oh there's latitude with who speaks and who can
speak. So I I don't want I I'm not going to become a regular here. I just want to give you my topics that will uh enrich everybody over here. And I'm trying to speak as fast as possible. I also think when people come here and talk there should be a a dialogue between us and
not a monologue. So if I talk I want you to answer if you want to answer. So, so by the way to to the audience, when you come up here as a public speaker, you are supposed to address the mayor and if they want to answer your question, they can. And if they don't want to answer
your question, they don't have to. That's how it works in in public meetings. So, but I think if you want to answer somebody's question because they came to ask you, it would be a dialogue between you and them rather than somebody coming over here pissed off.
They say their name, they they they do their monologue, and they turn around and sit down even before there's a chance to say anything. So, I I I I'm just giving you again some some input. Um so, back to the minutes. Well, I
think again we're we're way over here. So, please forgive me, you know, but I just want to continue with my topics and I'm trying as fast as possible. We need to uniformly apply the fiveminute rules. So, um, and and there's other people that are going to want to speak and we
can't be here till midnight. So, u I mean, if if you don't want to be here till midnight, give yourselves a raise, another $1,000, another $1,500. We need to vote for that. You know, we need to apply the the fiveminute rule uniformly and yes, it's a rule. That's that's the
rule, right? It's not an ordinance, but we need to do it effectively across all public speakers or else we're then biased against one or the other. We need to keep it consistent for equity. Thank you. So, so what? Email us too. No, I don't want I want everybody to hear this. There's another open session at later on in the meeting at the end if
you want you want to come back. So, so what are you saying? Like I can talk now for 5 minutes. I have to sit down and get back up in 5 minutes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, you want me to sit down and just get back up? No, not in this session. At later on in the agenda, there's another open one person. We want you to adhere to the rules everyone else
does, not try to get special treatment for yourself that other people I'm not trying to get special treatment. think you're trying to get the we don't want it to apply to you and what we're telling you is that we want it to apply uniformly and so that's I don't know what to tell you and and and and I
understand what you just said. So my you you're saying there's a five five minute limit. If I walk away and get back up, do I have another five? Does it say in your resolution that you can only speak one time public comment period at the end
for what I call the grabag public comment where that if you want to finish your remarks uh during that fiveminute period, you're more than willing to do so. But we do have an agenda to get through. Uh we do have the people's business to do. Um, so we we'd really appreciate it if you could reserve your
additional comments to Den. How about if I go through two more points? This isn't a negotiation. Do you understand? So can can we move on, please, and you can come back for the final public comment period? Do you understand that this is a folk
form of government? I'm well aware of it. I'm also aware that there's not there's not a requirement that we engage with you. you can attend the proceedings and so do you I've given you sufficient I'm just I'm just going to finish this one sentence okay this is a form falcon a form of government which gives the
township residents power of initiative and referend initiative and referendum which mean which means that basically we can create a petition and create an ordinance please you don't want me to get involved creating ordinances and
giving every resident 20 minutes on the and I'll pass an ordinance. So, I think it's absurd to give somebody only five minutes when they have something else to talk about. I'm not You haven't seen me here. I'm not ranting. I'm bringing more
information to you. Um I I think you should let me speak. Okay. you you will have an opportunity at the end to uh finish your comments, but we really have we have three ordinances we have to get through um that we've been mulling over for a long time. And so I You mean the
same ordinance that if the if the if the residents want they can repeal it and they can get petition signatures and within 20 days submit it to the clerk and repeal your ordinance? Do you want me to teach them how to do that? You can threaten as much as you want. not
threatening. But that seems to be talking point, sir. Sir, I've given you plenty of latitude. I I' I'd really like you the other members who would like you haven't given me long latitude because I have another 13 points. 13
13 time for us to be respectful of the our rules and and just move on. Thank you. 13. When's your next um open uh mic time? Uh at the very end. Do you have a copy of the agenda right there? I I didn't look on your agenda because I I
I'm I'm here for new business and this is all new business. Then there's another one. It's right there. Number 12. Thank you. You that that was a good point brought up. Um, is there um is is are we
required to capture first name, last name, and address? Is there a requirement for that or is that just our practice? Then what the practice is, but Daniel's law I did bring that up. Okay, that's a good point. Thank you. It was necessary, but it would be better not to have the address, even their last name.
Okay, thank you for clarifying that. I understand what they're saying. I'll just put speaker. That's great. Thank you. Any other member wishing to be heard uh for the first public comment period for items that are not on the
agenda? Right. Seeing none, we will move to the expenditures. Deputy Mayor Murphy, would you please read the expenditures for April 22nd, 2025? Yes. The total expenditures for
April 22nd, 2025 are 8,923,3855.77. Um, may I have a motion to approve the expenditures for April 22nd, 2025? As presented, to approve the expenditures. Uh, may I have a second, please? I'll second. All those in favor
say I. I. I. Uh so the uh expenditures of April 22nd 2025 have been approved. Um we do not have a introduction of an ordinance. However, we do have three ordinances and before we get to those um
this is sort of apppropo of our previous one. Um we do have to have public comment period for each one. Um so I would ask respectfully ask that you limit your public comments to the actual ordinance that's under consideration. Uh I know they're all uh very related to
one another. Um and so and also be mindful try to uh not you know be duplicative of your comments. So if you get up for the first ordinance and then you come up again for the second one and you make the same statement that you did previously, that's your right to do
that. I would just ask that you be mindful of the amount of people that are in here uh and and the time frame that we have to try to get through that. So with that, um, madame clerk, could you please read, uh, the title of ordinance 257,
ordinance of the township of Sparta and the county of Sussex, New Jersey, permitting class 5 cannabis businesses within the township, adding definitions to section 18-2 of the township code, deleting subsection 3 of code section
18-4.5H, prohibited uses, and adopting new sections 18-47, C23 18-4.24 F3 and 18-4.20 D2 in permitting the operation
of class 5 cannabis licenses as conditional uses within the TCC and the C1 zones in the township. Okay. Thank you. Uh and now we are at the public comment period uh for the ordinance 257. So if you have a comment
related to 257 uh please speak now. Hi everybody. Um I absolutely respect the five minute rule and when I come up as personal um comment I I will respect that but as uh
I'm speaking here today as chair of the planning board which has certain powers and rights and I would ask that it be waved because we do need a dialogue with this particular instance. Um, dear Mayor Clark and members of the town council, on March 11th, the township council
introduced ordinance 25-07 permitting class 5 cannabis businesses within the township. After introduction, the council referred the proposed ordinance to the planning board for master plan consistency re review pursuant to the referral powers contained in the New
Jersey statutes. These referral powers provide certain rights to the planning board. The statute states that prior to the adoption of a development regulation, revision or amendment, the planning board shall provide a report to the governing body that identifies provisions which are inconsistent with
the master plan. The planning board shall provide recommendations concerning these inconsistencies and any other matters as the board deems appropriate. goes on to state, "The governing body when considering the adoption of a development regulation revision or
amendment shall review the report of the planning board. It may disapprove or change of any recommendation by a vote of a majority of the full membership, but in doing so, it is required that the minutes record the reasons for not following each recommendation.
On March 19th, 2025, at a duly noticed and constituted public meeting, the planning board unanimously determined that the introduced ordinance is not consistent with the township's master plan. This unanimous determination resulted after a spirited hour-long
discussion amongst its members. As a result of these discussions, the planning board utilized its powers to provide further recommendations to the town council concerning these inconsistencies. Number one, and there are 10 of them.
Let's start with providing a clear definition of cannabis. What is considered a cannabis product? The township definition does not reference the sale of hemp products, and it is unclear or whether or not the sale of these products is allowed or prohibited. How about CBD products? The planning
board will be tasked with these interpretations, and we require a clear definition prior to the review of any application. Number two, there are also language deficiencies on page three regarding delivery services. States number of
retail businesses and cannabis delivery service licenses, but then it goes on and there's no further reference to delivery services. Does this mean that both are provided to the retail establishment? Clearer language is required. Number three, clearer language
is also required regarding new bulk standards for signage. Number four, next we need to address the very basic question whether or not cannabis shops are necessary in Sparta, especially since the sale of these products is ready is readily available
in our neighboring communities. One of the aspects of master planning is to examine the need or use based on surrounding communities. The planning board suggests that the community be surveyed by way of referendum or other public forum method method and not by
referencing the 2020 general election question one that only related to the legalization aspect of marijuana. Furthermore, the very fact that a vote is being considered today while the Sparta schools are on spring break and many families are away on
vacation circumvents any open dialogue process. Number five, the next question. assuming that a need can be identified is where the sale of cannabis should be located. We questioned the logic behind suggesting that it be located in the TCC
and C1 zones. Since the cannabis operation is subject to conditional use zoning, this automatically triggers ordinance changes in a zone ordinance. So why not change the economic development zone language so that it could be included there? Changing the
zone would allow for other negative factors to be less significant, such as buffer measurements. The planning board does not recommend a measurement of 250 ft doortodoor from schools, daycare centers, places of worship, or youth centers. We conclude that the buffer
measurements should be re-examined as they should have a minimum of 1,000 square feet 1,000 ft from property line to property line so as to prioritize the health, safety, and welfare of these vulnerable populations. Number seven, following up
on that, we have concerns for the younger community as it pertains to products for sales such as edibles, gummies, etc. Number eight, one suggestion is not to jump into this head first. a trial that permits the sale of medical marijuana before introducing retail
cannabis sales should be considered. Number nine, the planning board further expressed concern that the language in the ordinance regarding direct access to routes 15 and 181 is unclear. Winona Parkway and Lake Mohawk has direct access to Route 81. So does
Mohawk Avenue as well as other side streets. A cannabis establishment in this area would be detrimental to the character of White Deer Plaza, which has been denoted as one of Sparta's most important landmarks during our recent master plan survey of the
community. Number 10. Speaking of the master plan, everyone is aware that the planning board has begun the arduous process of developing a new master plan for Sparta Township. The board would like the opportunity to re-examine cannabis use and zoning through its new
master plan process in order to determine areas that will achieve the highest and best use for the zone. We will be reaching out to all major sectors of our community and we will also be conducting open po open public forums to solicit the ideas and
suggestions from as many individuals as pro as possible. Please don't strip away our rights to this very important process. I thank you for listening and remind you of your obligation to provide on there rationale for rejecting any one of the planning board
suggestions. Thank you. And I have copies, you know, because I think as you go through this, you will have to rationalize. Well, I have mine here, too. I can pass out to you. We are in receipt um of the March 21st, 2025 memorandum. Um, so we we are in receipt
of that and um I think some of the the statements that you made and and your your comments were were not included in any of the rationale that the planning board gave us. Um but I also want clarification um from our council which is my
understanding is that we are to acknowledge uh the report um that we perceived it um and we have discretion on whether to adopt or to approve any of those recommendations. That's correct.
the um respectfully the statute um which the chair acknowledged does require the council to uh acknowledge the referral report uh dated March 21st
2025. Um once the council recognizes that report uh and and considers that report uh the next step is only permissive may approve or change any recommendation by a vote of the majority. So the council is not required
by statute to uh adopt or um agree to the recommendations but it's permissive and not mandatory. That that is correct. I read exactly from title 40 55D- please be mindful of that we need
to apply that this is not I'm not speaking personally but the planning board this was given to the planning board for master plan consistency we invite the planning board it is not um my personal recommendation we are not saying whether or not we agree or
disagree with the sale of cannabis we're looking at the ordinance and we are making we have a fiveminute rule that we need to be respectful and mindful of. I will um I I do question though title 40 col 55D-26. I read it exactly as it is that
you can disapprove or change any recommendation by a vote of the majority of the full membership. But in doing so, it's required that the minutes record the reasons for not following the recommendations. And if you pull that up, Mr. Dash, I can I can address that
briefly. Um, so if you read the language, it says that the governing body must consider the report and that the minutes record the reasons. Just let me finish for a second, please. And it goes on to say, and may approve
or change any such recommendation by a vote of the majority of its full authorized membership. In that case, it shall record in the minutes the reasons exactly for it's not following such recommend recommendations. That requirement to
record in the minutes the reasons is only triggered if the council approves or change which is permissive of any such recommendation. The only obligation according to Jennings versus the Burough of Highlands which is a appellet division case in 2011 in which the court
addressed this very specific topic. The court said the only obligation of the council obligation the council is free to do deviate from that obligation is to acknowledge the report. The second aspect is permissive as to whether or not in the event that it does approve or
change any recommendation. In that case you're right. It shall record in the minutes the reasons that's mandatory. But until you get to that second permissive stage that shall is not triggered respectfully. Well, I'm not going to argue legal opinion clearly, but um you know, as I
read it, it says record the minutes or the reasons, and that's what the planning board was asking for. So, we and we have acknowledged receipt of the March 21st, 2025 recommendation from the planning board. And so, uh it would be my view
that we complied with the particular the council has strictly strictly complied with its obligation. It's permissive whether a council member or a majority wishes to amend or change any such recommendation. Mr. Mayor, I was part of the planning
board that put together this list and I believe that we should address each and every one of these items as the planning board put a lot of thought and a lot of discussion into this and we sp we were asked to t we we got the task from you.
So we were asked to look at the recommendations whether it was consistent and give the I mean we have rules for reasons and we should be respectful. Is there no recourse to anybody just sitting at the microphone for more than five minutes? This is this this is not respectful. Yeah. It's my
position that we've done what we need to do. If someone wants to you know go beyond that they're they're well within their provision to do so. um you know if someone wants to make a motion to adopt any of these recommend they can make a motion to do so and then we can discuss them but until that we
haven't triggered that part of the statute. So after the public speaks and it comes back to the council any council member may according to the statute make a motion to approve or change any recommendation. At that time it would be appropriate for the council to have this
uh this call. So why don't we get other members of the public who wish to be heard on this discussion. Um as I said I was representing planning board. I do have personal comments. It'll take me 30 seconds. Um after the meeting I just didn't think of this at
the meeting but I would ask that you also consider labeling of products with ingredients consistent with other types of ingestable products. Consider childresistant packaging and warning labels like alcohol and smoking products have. That's all we have. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard on 257? Hi, Marilyn Chapman. It is 66 Hunter Lane. Um, I'd like to thank the members of the council who are speaking so
audibly tonight. It is a personal benefit to me beyond price. Um, I support many of the concerns this lady presented. I worked with substance abuse
issues for 30 years as an RN, as a clinical social worker, and as a state certified substance abuse counselor. I think the people who uh agreed to make marijuana legal were either ignorant of
the effects of marijuana or they chose to ignore them and wanting to tax dollars. But in my opinion, there can actually be no benefit and only detriment to the proliferation of marijuana use. And as this lady said, I
would hate to see the character of Sparta diminished because of it. Um, I've seen films of marijuana influenced
brains and their lack of coordination in in automobiles. Surely we have enough aggressive drivers to cause concern about our safety on the highway. But to have people out there whose brains are influenced and affect
their inability to coordinate their their action is real concern. The second one is that I think the people who study human development would be skeptical that the
human brain is fully mature at age 21 and the damage that is inherent to adolescent brains. Aside from the fact that the more frequent opportunities adolescents have
to purchase marijuana illegally or have their friends buy them for it will be heavily involved in obtaining marijuana. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you, Marilyn. Thank you.
Hi, I'm Florence Slack and I live at 25 Hunters Lane, Sparta. And this may not be the right time. It might be too early to ask this question, but it do you have any idea of what locations, what buildings, if everything's approved and
cannabis goes through, any specific locations in mind where these locations might actually end up? No. No, not I mean, if you look at the the ordinance, it there's a a very
rigorous site like anything, right? you open up a zone and you get a site plan, you get a an application for certain, you can't regulate to specific lot and block, etc. So, we won't know where the retailer would be until they apply. They
obviously would have to be in those zones. Um, but then whatever they pick would then have to follow all the regular ordinances, but no, I don't have any idea where they would be within these zones. A little too early. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you.
Hi, John Payne. Um, Sparta Township. I stand before you tonight in strong opposition to allow marijuana dispensaries in Sparta. And I have just one question I'd like to ask. Why do we need it? There are already five dispensaries in
Andover, 10 within a 10mi radius of Sparta. Access is everywhere. In fact, there's reportedly an illegal dispensary already operating right here in Sparta. And instead of licensing more, we should be
enforcing the existing laws. So again, why do we need it? Let's talk about what happens when these stores open. Just walk through towns that have already embraced dispensaries. You can smell marijuana everywhere at every corner. People walk
out of shops, light up, vape, and the moments later you're trying to get your haircut, buy groceries with a with waft of marijuana smell. This is not hypothetical. It happens in towns all around us. Is that what we want in
Sparta? Why do we need it? in Pueblo, Colorado, you know, once embraced legitimizing or legalization of all um legitimate, sorry, legalization, um officials now acknowledge that the
rise of homelessness, crimes, and social services strain. And despite promoting or promises of tax revenue has covered that the revenue does not cover the costs of these burdens on the town. So again, why do we need
this? In economics, don't hold either. The market is flooded. More shops only commoditizes the product, slashes marijuana margins, and leads to business closures, leaving empty storefronts and loss of investments to those. Why do we
need it? We are family focused, valuesdriven community. Let's not trade long-term quality of life for short-term uncertainties of return. Why do we need this? I urge you to vote no on marijuana dispensaries in Sparta because truly,
why do we need it? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, I'm Dr. Pamela Alberto. I'm at 171 Woodport Road. Um, so I have been a practicing oral surgeon in this county for 40 years. And I'm here because I
care about the health care in this community. and I've cared for it for 40 years. Those of you who know me know that I care about the county. I'm also a clinical associate professor in Newark, uh, where I'm dealing with the chronic
issues of cannabis use. So, I see it firsthand every week when I'm down there on Tuesday and Wednesday. And what most people don't realize is that the original uh, research on cannabis, the THC content was less than 2%.
Now depending on what type of cannabis it is or a hashish it can be 40% 80% 90% THC. The problem with uh the high doses is that it will cause anxiety, dysphoria, psychosis, impaired cognitive
and coordination. We have problems with high schoolers now using cannabis, getting cannabis from other adults. Uh and it's it's a chronic problem. We all think the opioid problem is a is a problem. The opioid issues that we have.
I predict and most of the doctors I know predict within the next five years, you're going to see the same thing with chronic cannabis use. We have a problem down in Newark where youth, you know, young people in their 20s are smoking cannabis 247 and there's so many issues
involved with it. The American Dental Association has come out to talk about the oral effects of cannabis because there are problems uh that people are experiencing. It's also well documented documented that there is addiction with
cannabis and it is a gateway drug that will bring people to the use of heroin and other uh other drugs. So, I can't understand why a wonderful place like Sparta, that I've been in 40 years, would even consider wanting to open a
cannabis dispensary in this town when there's so many dispensaries. If you look in Colorado, some of these dispensaries are going out of business because there's too many of them. You drive up and down 23 and you can spot
plenty of of uh uh cannabis dispensaries. Uh in again if you care about the health of the youth in this community or the people that live in this community, you will vote no against this having a dispensary in Sparta.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi uh Jesse W. I'm here to talk about that ordinance 257. So like I said when the majority of the council votes for it 3 to2 the
people behind me have the power and the power is the initiative or the repeal petition. This is the last petition, probably the only petition in 2008, the 160
pages this went, this took the referendum for the garbage where there was over 5,000 votes. So, if you're against an ordinance, you need five people to put on a petition to repeal the ordinance, and you go collect signatures. So, now you're asking me how
many signatures. We have 17,149 registered voters. But based on the Faulner Act, we don't go based on the registered voters. We go based on how many people voted in
the last assembly, which was the the election uh in November 5th, which 12,482 voted. So, you need 15% of the people who voted on November 5th to repeal an ordinance when the town
passes an ordinance. And if you're against it, which means you need 1,872 signatures. In 2008, 40 people, 40 seniors. We did this in a weekend and we submitted the petition to the to the to
the clerk and she went through it. And because of that, you know, we delayed the garbage, Blue Diamond, Diamond Realy from uh creating this whole mess. But all I'm saying
is, you know what? This is a Falconer form of government. There's four Faulner forms of government in Sussex County. Sparta, Byron, Newton, Vernon. We, these four municipalities and another 128 municipalities in Sussex
County, we have the power. We have the power. If you, if you have the time and you collect signatures and you do it the right way, you can repeal their ordinance and not have
uh dispensaries or not have uh production movies or or whatever the ordinances. And if you don't like an ordinance that they have, you can initiate an ordinance or amend the ordinance and that you only need 10% petition signatures, which
is,248. I stood one time one weekend and got 600 signatures over a weekend. I'm sorry to interrupt. Do you have any comments related to the substance of the ordinance? Yes. So regarding ordinance 257 regarding 257. Focus on the substance of the ordinance. But I'm
talking about the ordinance. I don't have to talk about cannabis. I can talk about the ordinance. So, I'm related to the ordinance. This is 257. Three people are going to vote yes. Two people are going to vote no. I've seen this before. Tomorrow, you take their ordinance, you
write the word repeal on it, you start collecting signatures. 20 within 20 days, you give her the petition and then either they dismiss it or it goes to referendum and people vote on it. So by submitting the petition, the council has
a second chance of either changing their mind and and letting and repealing the ordinance or it goes to referendum and and the whole and the whole citizen uh citizenry votes on it. So yeah, that's that's my input regarding ordinance 257.
But okay, thank you very much. You're welcome. I still have a minute 16, minute 15, minute 14. This this petition of 160 pages was was submitted on December 14, 2007.
I wish I could talk about the other points, but I'm going to stay focused on 257. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to be heard on ordinance 257? Hi, Beth Broadick. I'm still on Northshore in Sparta. Um, I actually
have a couple questions for you guys. I think there was an ordinance or proposed ordinance back in October of 2024 that indicated that proposed cannabis locations needed to be 1,000 ft from churches, playgrounds, daycarees, schools,
churches, every a whole litany of things. Where did your 250 come from? It seems like a pretty big drop. That's question one. I'm watching the clock, so I've got Why don't you get all your questions out? Yeah, that's what I'm going to do if that's okay. Um, was the
change done or proposed to include specific properties or was it because when the ordinance in October was proposed, it came to light that there was no acceptable or no property that fit or met the criteria because I believe that came up by somebody with
the town where when they went through it, it came to light that if you did the 100,000 or the thousand, if you stayed within direct access of 181 andor 15, they there was no property that fit those criteria. So, I just wanted to
know where um for the 181 and 15 access. It's my understanding that they have to be on Route 15 or 181, which would eliminate then Upper Lake Plaza um and that whole strip mall. it would eliminate
um the plaza because it's not on 181 or 15 because Winona pro even though Winona is right there and that provides the access it's not direct access to 181 which is right at the top of the hill. So that's the other one.
Um, another question I have is since Joan was not able to finish everything that was discussed during the planning board, can we please postpone a vote on this until that discussion happens and the concerns from the planning board are
addressed? And also, can we push it out a little bit because Sparta and Pope John Reverend Brown and the rest of the Catholic Academy are on spring break. So, a lot of people are not able to attend to provide their input whether they support the ordinance or don't
support the ordinance. I don't think it's right that a lot of the people aren't here to express their support or concerns regarding the ordinance and the planning board was not fully heard because of the fiveminute restriction. So, I think we need to do that. And then
also, if the ordinance passes and one or two of the businesses do proposed locations um do get passed, once it's in, aren't we then excluding familyfriendly businesses and other uses
like daycarees that we need because we all know that there's a bunch of kids here and it's hard to get into the daycarees. You're eliminating that. You're eliminating the opportunity for playgrounds, parks, a freaking side in somebody's backyard. You're eliminating all of that by saying, "Okay, let's put
in one or two can cannabis locations, whether they're womenowned, veteran owned, whatever, whatever the criteria are." By putting this in, you're excluding a large portion of Sparta, which is why we're here. We might as well get rid of the ball fields and everything else.
or a familyfriendly, family oriented, community oriented business that may or may not generate the income that I think may be on the radar. I think I saw 2%. I'm sure we can get that with a
daycare or something along those lines. It's kind of excluding and I understand that there are legitimate reasons like the medical side of it where you have chronic pain or whatever. I understand I work in healthare. I work with cancer patients. I get it. But at the same
time, there's some two minutes down the road. If that's a problem, maybe we should circle back to the,000 ft, the 250, the 181 location, and go to the the ED zone instead. And maybe I'm wrong. I do still believe we should table this until planning board finishes their
conversation. You look at the master plan and look at the other criteria and look to see what's the priority of the town. Is it the residents as a whole, the under 21 crowd, the over 21 crowd, and go from there? Oh, and of course, I have to put
in when we increase businesses, we increase traffic. 181 and 15 are a hot mess. Those are the two roads that they have to have access to. And those are also on the radar with the planning board and the master plan. And I still have 13 seconds. I'm done. Thank you. Do
you want me to stay here or do you want me to sit down? No. I think I think the better practice is you know it's not the council's turn now to have discuss amongst themselves or to we bring it back to council and I think probably your questions will get answered in that discussion. So rather than having this
you know I answer your question and then you know I think we will reserve that until when we bring it back to council after all the public comment period okay is completed. Thanks. But thank you. I think I will add to that that we the council did have a working session. you can leave. You can you can walk away if
you want. Um did have a working session with the planning board last year. I want to say it was October of just a general convers conversation about uh a give and take with you know providing input into this ordinance. So that did happen last year. And she is irrespective of the final
decision from the planning board. You suggested having an open dialogue with the plane which we did last year. A lot has changed since October when that ordinance I think was originally proposed or the last one was but ridiculously that was just a working session. So it's we weren't coming together with a Oh, sorry. I thought
there was a proposed ordinance from then that said a thousand. It was but that was only meant to be just a a working model for us to have a Okay. But either way, I know that you were bringing up the five minute clock with when Joan was speaking for as the understood
representative. So, I just want to make sure that Joan's points that were not brought up or she was not able to bring up are included in the discussion. We received this a couple of weeks ago, so we we're aware of this. Okay. Good evening, K. Hear me now? Eric Arenson again from Sparta Township,
lifelong resident. Um, even though it's not directly related to alcohol, the quote will be no wine before it's time. What do I mean by that? I mean with what you said about the planning board, the master plan that's still not redone. I feel like this whole thing is just being rushed. I'm not sure why, but put the brakes on. Slow down. Listen to what the
planning board that all five of you appointed. Put a lot of trust in, a lot of work and effort. Listen to what they they say. They're they exist for a reason. Um that being said, there's a lot of dispensaries in the area. Obviously, we've spoken about
that already. Uh, Andover, West Milford, Franklin. Who's driven through Franklin lately? Route 23,517. Right. You get you get high with your windows closed just driving through that area. It's It's true. So, you want to
put this ordinance in the uh Route Route 181 area, Sparta Avenue, and just a real small spot of Route 15. Really tiny spot, but both of it's in the center of town, the town center. I don't know about everybody here, but I love the way our town smells right now. I don't
really want to smell rock cannabis in town just when I step outside every morning or some point during the day. That's just me, one of 17 some odd thousand uh registered voters. Um there's already smoke shops in town that's already been established. These
uh locations, the dispensary locations when they open up, is it going to be video killing that radio star as well? There was discussion last year about concerns with uh food trucks interfering with local businesses. This is the same thing. It's going to be dispensaries interfering with the the smoke shops
that are already lawfully established in town. Um cannabis is a drug, like it or not. Yes, I know it's a legal drug now. New Jersey voters clearly establish that in 2020. As a former drug recognition
expert and traffic crash investigator myself who who did several years of service here in Sussex County, I've seen the effects firsthand of cannabis and people behind the wheel of motor vehicles, just like I'm sure the chief has and the entire department was here before. It's not something that should
be taken lightly, something we should look seriously into and a problem that we should not be contributing to. the uh the location of these zones, Sparta Avenue, the plaza, Route 181, Woodport Road section, the traffic's
already atrocious there. Why not put it out on Route 15, especially with the the council's uh belief that you're going to successfully tackle a warehouse, so you shouldn't have the warehouse traffic. So, why not have the dispensary traffic out there instead of in the center of town where, truth be told, you can't get through on
Woodport Road without delays, especially in the afternoon, evening right now. um the parking in the plaza which is going to be a location that's authorized by the ordinances. Forget it. That's that's nearly impossible as well. Let's talk
about the 250 foot buffer zone from the schools. Obviously, the main school in question is the Mohawk Avenue school. How far is the liquor factory from the Mohawk Avenue school? The building itself, not the edge of the property, but the building itself according to Google M Google maps maps about 500 ft.
So this is not even a football field away from the edge of any school property. Personally, I find that's a little too close. And if you're going to keep that, that distance really needs to be extended. Uh sections H and I of the ordinances that talk about security. I
feel that the security is just simply deficient. There's no real mechanisms in place. I'd be curious if there was any input from the police department on having security measures, be it armed officers, armed security, undercover security, something like that in place
to make sure that all the laws of the state are being complied with. And then lastly, also for inspections, all the alcoholic beverage locations in town, they're subject to random ABC inspections by law enforcement at any time. I didn't see anything in the ordinance that was that's proposed about
that for the cannabis facilities as well. For those reasons, I I personally request that you either table the ordinance and allow a lot more time and a lot more research instead of rushing it through or vote no for that. My comments I just made, not only for this ordinance, but all the subsequent ones
throughout the rest of the evening to avoid redundancy. We have to keep coming up here. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You Joanne Scally, Spartan, New Jersey. I was back here in December and I requested if you're going to do anything
put it to a referendum rather than three out of five of you vote yes. Um my next thing is um directed to you mayor um during the Airbnb short-term rentals, you said multiple times that even though you might be for the short-term rentals,
you're for the will of the people. So, you voted um yes for the um ordinance against uh the Airbnbs, the short-term rentals, and then you also said for the warehouse, you're for the will of the people, but now you're hearing the will of the
people, but are you picking and choosing who you want to um who you want to support, who what ordinance you want to support? Um okay, still going the will of the people. Why aren't you going for the will of the people?
vote no. Why do you have to pick and choose what you want to go for? Because actually the will of the people, if you look on Facebook, you look in this room, they're against this ordinance. Um I know you everyone says that it's not a gateway drug. It is a gateway drug. Um
my cousin who was 10 months older than me started smoking marijuana um back in the 70s. Um he's dead now. He died at 32 because it was a gateway drug and he went into harder drugs. And my aunt was 39 and
um her husband was already well a little bit older than 39, but her husband died at 39. Um she was devastated. Destroyed a family. It destroyed the entire family because the fabric was broken. Um then I looked up um something that was the
study was funded by the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. Researchers analyzed 19 years of data from the Fatality Analyst Reporting System, a national database of fatal crashes on public roads. the percent of crash deaths involving cannabis more than doubled from 9% in
2000, which is around the time that everyone got crazy and started um allowing this to 21.5% in 2018. That's a big jump. And I'm sure it's much higher now. And the cannabis, like the woman before stated, the
cannabis is a lot stronger than it was in my day. I never partaked of it, especially after seeing my cousin. I have friends that smoke marijuana up to this day and they're not all there. A little dizzy. Um but if you I believe
during um like the police training that they have that little thing you drive and you're impaired driving um that you're going to be crashing impaired driving with cannabis and cannabis is not good. I'm urging you to please vote
no. Um, and if not, at least put it to a referendum. But please go by your word, mayor, that you're here for the people. Um, and obviously if you vote yes for this, you were not. You just pick and choose the warehouse and the short-term
rentals, but not this. Thank you for your time. I appreciate your opinion. Thank you very much. Please. James Santaaso, not a resident of Sparta. Get that out of the way right now. Uh, didn't plan on speaking tonight, but um, I feel like I have to
because there's clearly a lot of confusion out there about cannabis, the cannabis industry, cannabis users, I use every day. It helps amazingly with my anxiety, my depression, my ability to focus, my ability to actually do chores around the house and get motivated.
Okay, cannabis itself, the biggest issue with cannabis is not the drug. No different than alcohol, opiates, cigarettes, coffee, anything. It is the user. The user is the person who needs to search for the help. And we as a community need to give those people the
help that they need. Substance abuse disorder is substance abuse disorder because it is a substance abuse disorder. It is not specific to marijuana. Are there health risks that come with marijuana over consumption? Absolutely. You can also have too much coffee and give yourself a heart
condition. At the end of the day, we can't pick and choose what substances aren't aren't acceptable for grown adults. We have more liquor stores in Sussex County than we havearmacies. And at the end of the day, these are all things that we need to take into consideration. Now, at the end, I don't
live here. I've said that. I was on the record and honest about that. I don't live here. This isn't going to affect me. I'm not a taxpayer. But I can promise you I will be here every day buying if it is in town. Because currently I heard a lot of talk about the gifting locations or what we what I call gifting locations because that's
what they are. In reality, these smoke shops are exactly that. They're gifting or organizations. They get a co under false pretenses, a certificate of occupancy. They open their doors and they sell to anyone and everyone that walks through the door that's willing to say the code word or pay the markup
price. These people sell this to anyone that they feel they can. They are not licensed. They are not required by law to have any kind of inspections. There is no police feed or any kind of camera monitoring who's going in and out. There is no percentage of THC required. And
their sources are not legally required to be given because they're operating under an illegitimate business uh entity organization. So at the end of the day, the regulation is required in order to keep the community safe. I know that for
a fact because we saw it happen in Vernon. We've seen it happen in Newton and it also has happened in Andover. Yes, there are a lot of or cannabis locations just over the border in Andover. But if you'll notice, a lot of them are going out of business. Why? Because Andover allowed many, many
numbers along with Route 23, Jefferson, West Milford. They allowed multiple licenses to be available. Those licenses were immediately picked up and they immediately opened. It is not the town's job to make a productive or profitable business. It is the town's job to oversee and regulate those businesses
when you pass these laws. I heard about Franklin. I'm glad that was brought up. Franklin, the reason why you smell weed in Franklin isn't because of people lighting up on the side of the road. You smell weed in Franklin because that is a weed grow operation run by Rise Dispensary Cannabis Corporation. They run that business and have run that
business since they were a medical grow operation way back in the day and then moved over to recreational and were grandfathered in. That smell is for no other reason other than the fact that the ordinance was deficient in their requirement for ventilation. So everything you're smelling is without
any kind of actual ventilation, any kind of procedure for cleaning the air. It's because they're bad neighbors. And I'll be the first one to say it. They are bad neighbors. So, at the end of the day, there's a there's a lot of really big miscommunications here when it comes to the facts of this. And one of the
biggest ones that I keep hearing about is the gummies and the edibles. The gummies and the edibles, you need to understand. They're all required under CRC law and regulation to be labeled. You can't have a 90% cannabis product in your store. It's it's not allowed. The regulation only allows for certain
percentages. They are extremely specific about the packaging. I know. I'm in there all the time, always looking for something quick and easy for me because I got stuff to do. So, at the end of the day, all of these concerns are valid and it shows that everybody in this room obviously cares about the community.
They care about the kids. They care about the schools. They care about their their their their uh you know, the community they live in and raise their families. But at the end of the day, there's a lot of misinformation or just simple misunderstandings because I don't expect everyone in this room to go and read the CRC regulations like I have. I
did it out of curiosity. wanted to get into the business, didn't get into the business. Who would have thought you had needed a couple million dollars to open up a location? But at the end of the day, you need a couple million dollars to open up a location. So, the idea that there's going to be this crime wave and all these terrible things coming, it's
literally been proven in stats the exact opposite. Look at Monontlair, New Jersey. They did an FBI law enforcement study and found that crime had actually dropped and they took in over $200,000 in tax relatables last year alone off of one location. They're not our population, but we have the highway.
Sparta has the highway. And Sparta also has plenty of people that, let's be real, everybody's buying it already. Your kids are buying it. You're buying it. And right now, they're buying it from people who have no license, no oversight from the state, no protections, and the law enforcement, sadly, are shackled and can only do
their job when the township is willing to be a partner, a willing partner. Thank you. For the record, for the record, that was Mr. James Santisero. He's a Democratic operative and he is Mark. The public's allowed to speak.
Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And I would ask that I'll keep going later. Anytime. Okay. back to follow. Uh Rob O. I guess I don't need to give my address. Um
don't look for me. So So I was going to I had something prepared. Um because usually I just get up here and ramble. I'm sorry. Um but now I got to follow that. So I'm going to just skip to the end and then say some things. Um, so I just want
to urge the council to please consider the weight of your decision tonight. Um, the use can be argued to be safer than other uses. This use um this use may help a subset of the population to more conveniently obtain from local and
licensed sources a therapy that they may rely upon. I'm not disputing that. um the ratables benefit may add further incentives to the use, but are these collective rewards worth the risk? I know in your ordinance you put um where
is the Spart Township Council determines this town necessary and appropriate? Is the best interest of the health, safety, and welfare of the township aspart residents, members of the public, etc. Um, so I guess you're what you're saying there is again you're you're trying to
put in guard rails for the consumers that are already coming here purchasing and I respect that, but um what about what about the gifting locations? Uh do those just you know when you enact this ordinance, you have some language in
there that says now we'll tackle the gifting locations because we're going to have these two locations. So, you're going to tell me I don't partake, but I've worked closely with one of the largest wholesalers in the West Coast,
um, who served Washington State, Oregon, uh, California for over 30 years. Um, I have visited the whole gamut of, uh, bud tender establishments to just kind of
like shady smoke shop. Uh, and that is my concern. You have two shots to get this right. Um, and we've heard what happens if you don't get it right. You grandfather something in. Franklin has this issue where this use is grandfathered
in. What happens when we have to meet our Mount Laurel uh requirements for housing? to Beth's point, um, we're going to have these two locations and now we can't open up a church, a daycare center, a school. How are those kids
going to, you know, fit into society without those because we have these two locations? And clearly, you know, there are these planning and zoning concerns. Um, they'll be grandfather grandfathered in there. So, man, I'm not getting going
to get through any of what I wrote, but let me give you some pretty words. Uh, so I did vote for every single one of you on the deis. Um, despite your differences, I know you guys have a lot of differences, but the similarities are that you guys do care about this community. Um, and I see you
collectively as a council that would protect the citizens present and future. And I still believe that. Um, I'm not confident that the ordinance as written meets that standard. I do find it interesting that the film ready committee, which seemed to have no
negatives, uh, was, you know, really kind of run through the ringer. Um, so I would like some more time with this, but you guys got to know what you passed tonight possibly. It's going to be your legacy going forward. Um, and history
will be the judge, good or bad. I don't want you guys to miss out on ratables, but the way that your office shapes uh the community does have a ripple effect in shaping our children. I have two kids raising them in this community that my wife calls home that my wife grew up in.
Um so we are taxpayers here. We do live here. Um the people that I've talked to were horrified. People from uh Colorado with kids my kids age. Oh yeah, you know, I didn't realize Sparta didn't look favorably on this. Uh, so but I
just get my stuff in Andover. And then they they thought it was a good thing until they heard 250 ft doortodoor. That's pretty bad. If you have a field in front of a school, what does that shrink that buffer to? Um, so I promise
some nice words. Sorry. Um so just I would urge you guys there's a lot of current research the the research is ongoing. I think we can all agree that because of the nature of marijuana um still being fed federally illegal, it
hasn't had the opportunity to be shaped by society or by the research. So there's a lot of work to be done and there's a lot of things we're finding. Um anyway, this is going to be your legacy. This part of tomorrow that you're creating today. So, I urge you to tread carefully and thoughtfully,
please. Thank you. Thank you, Rob. Julie Kllin. I live on West Shore Trail. We have a very successful physician here telling us all the negatives and yet we're going to listen
to someone that has no skin in the game, doesn't live in this town, doesn't have children in our schools. Please think about this. Dr. Alberto's been here for 40 years and probably taking care of 60% of the children in this town and she's
still here and does wonderful things all the time. and she's super smart. Listen to her. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Florence Slack. I'm a 2500 years lane and frankly something really and made my blood boil when somebody who
doesn't even live in Sparta is putting his two cents in. I think everybody here who lives in Sparta are the people you need to listen to. Uh we have nothing to lose. We have everything to gain for a good quality of life, keeping Sparta as
a nice place to live, and just think of us, the people. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry, ma'am. There's no double dipping. Okay. Can I I just want to leave these clinical feel free to Yeah. for all of you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to be heard on ordinance 257, which is the first of three uh cannabis related ordinances tonight? Okay. Um seeing none, I will take it back to to council for comments.
So I I'll can start to my far left. Hi. Uh is now the time to make a motion to I don't hear any questions. You could you could discuss the ordinance. We have to
uh Did we make a motion to ex uh to um bring this to the dis? I don't believe we did. I don't know if you have to make a motion. It just goes back to council after public comment. I don't think you can open according to rapid schools, you can open a discussion without it being well. So then we can do that. We can open it and then we can have the discussion. It's just a matter of
procedure. You can make a motion. I guess it doesn't matter. I'll leave let the mayor uh decide. Yeah, I know we haven't necessar normally we've just closed public comment and then taken it back kind of verbally. Sorry I mentioned it. That's no problem. So again, we're back to council for discussion or
comment. So um Councilman Scott, uh if you have any discussion or comments. I do. I've got a letter that was written to me. Uh dear Councilman Scott, my name is Sylvia Malbury, 78 years old and a longtime resident of Sparta. I currently am the
president of the Hamlet at Town Center HOA 16 Main Street that's directly next to the post office. I have five grandchildren in the Sparta schools. I'm writing to oppose the sale of cannabis in the town of Sparta. I believe there are enough nearby towns selling medical
cannabis which would be accessible to all our residents in Sparta. our family en our families enjoy being part of a community that has been named one of the safest in in New Jersey and in the country. Let's not spoil our reputation
and fair market value of our homes. Thank you for listening and we appreciate all that you do that all that you can do for our community. Respectfully, Sylvia Mulbury. The National Institute of Health has indicated that children eating cannabis edibles such as gummies
is a growing health concern. This usually happens by accident and can result in hospitalization and serious illness. Eating large amounts of products containing delta THC has led to medical emergencies, including among children. For this reason, Sparta's
dispensaries should be 1,000 ft from schools, churches, and property lines. I make a motion that we Well, I think Okay. Well, then I won't make a motion. I will continue. Harms to harms the lung health. The smoking
cannabis can also harm. Can you just stop for a second? I just want to No, I'm not trying to interrupt. I know that you may have some motions. I think the best practice is to let all the council speak and then after that, people who want to make a motion related to this will do so. So you'll be able to get through that and not have to interrupt
what you want to say with motion. So I'm just trying to be helpful. All right. Thank you. Harms to lung health. Smoking cannabis can also harm lung tissue, respiratory issues such as large airway inflammation and bronchitis. Cardiovascular effects. Some
research shows an association between long-term cannabis use and an increased risk of stroke, heart attack, and arrhythmias. All these are going to add to the costs of running our town. Increased cancer risk, increased likelihood of developing head, neck or
throat cancer, particularly in people who smoke cannabis. This is the National Institute of Health. Frequently or heavy heavy heavy cannabis use has been linked to problems in cognitive functions like learning and memory, attention, processing speed,
perceptual function, and language. One of the things that I found out, which is just absolutely amazing, is that after autopsies of children that smoked pot, their brains were 70% of
what they should have been. That's an amazing amazing fact. All right. And I learned that from the M municipal alliance, which is an organization in town
to fight drug use in our community. That's just an amazing thing. Their brains were 70% of what a normal brain, a normal uncannabis brain would be. I don't know
how to say that. Okay, we got that. Any Sparta retail outlet must be a thousand feet from a church school. The thousand foot rule is in Jefferson, West Milford, Vernon. Even Howard Burell, the
mayor of Vernon, who who many of us admire has indicated that cannabis is a gateway drug. Cannabis products are among the first substances along with alcohol and tobacco that a person will likely encounter in in their life. You're
looking at one right here. Um people who use substances commonly use these these before trying others. Still, most people who use or have used cannabis do not go on to use other substances later in life. In other
words, those who use cannabis do not always have drug addiction. However, all who have addiction usually began with marijuana. More than 70% of New Jersey
towns now ban the adult use of marijuana. And this just came out on February 25th of 2025 in the Cannabis Business Daily magazine. According to USA Today Network, roughly 71% of New Jersey
towns, about 400 of them, have approved local ordinances that ban adult marijuana use. That's a significant jump in just a few weeks. And this was written back in April. And why is it in a few in why is this a significant jump?
because now is the 5-year anniversary of the initial allowing of of of passing or allowing of marijuana. And so many towns have exited the marijuana program and that is happening time and time again
throughout our state. Let me continue here. By contrast, according to the USA Today network analysis, only 98 municipalities have passed laws which will allow use for cannabis laws, and they are mostly located in southern and central New
Jersey. Edmond Dvau, president of the New Jersey Canada Business Association, told the USA Today network that a similar trend took place in states that previously adopted recreational marijuana, including California and
Colorado. All these New Jersey municipalities faced a hard August 23rd deadline to opt out of the industry before a 5-year moratorum on such bans went into effect. And that's why there's so much action on this right now. I want
to talk about who are the towns that have opted out that were previously in. Here are the few towns of New Jersey that have opted out of allowing cannabis use. Ridgewood, Summit, Westfield, Milbour, Ridgefield Park, Toms River, Parcipony, Troy Hills, Bridgewater,
Homeell, and Livingston. All very nice towns. Here are some of the towns in New Jersey that have allowed cannabis sales. Jersey City, Patterson, Elizabeth, Trenton, Atlantic City, Camden, Newark, Kobok, and Asbury Park, and Vinland. No comment.
Um, several towns in New Jersey initially opted into allowing cannabis sales, but later decided to opt out. I think that's very important. Those towns include Maplewood, Montlair, Redbank,
Morristown, Princeton, Madison, Cranberry, and Cranberry, I'm sorry. Those are towns that opted in 5 years ago and now have opted out. But guess what? They're still stuck with the cannabis stores that are in their town.
And they will have those cannabis stores forever essentially. And that's what we're doing here tonight. Voting on forever. Here are a few towns in New Jersey that have opted out of allowing cannabis sale. Ridgewood Summit,
Westfield. I I did that already. I'm sorry. Okay. Here is a report from the on the legalization of Colorado from from the state of Colorado on the legaliz legalization of cannabis and and
marijuana in Colorado. The impact and I just want to take a few sentences from here that I want to read. Traffic fatalities and impaired driving since recreational marijuana was legalized in 2013. Traffic deaths where drivers
tested positive for marijuana increased 138% while all cat Colorado traffic deaths increased 29%. So as many people have spoken
about marijuana obviously impairs driving ability and that'll be on 181 and 15 our busiest streets which all of us use. marijuana use. Since recreational marijuana was legalized in 2013,
remember this is Colorado's Colorado's experience. Past month, marijuana usage for ages 12 and older increased 26% and is 61% higher than the national average, which is currently ranked third in the
nation. So, Colorado is having some problems with this. The percentage of suicide incidents in which toxicology results were positive for marijuana has increased from 14% in 2013 to 30% in
2020. Do we want to lose our kids to this? We can just go next door to Andover, get it? Seizures of marijuana. Okay, let's talk about the black market. Everybody says, "Oh, we want to bring this pot to town and make it such a
super legal use and that's that's going to wipe out the black market." Well, that's not true. The marijuana that's going to come into this town is going to be a high potency and b it's going to be rather expensive because it has it's got layers
of tax on it. Okay? And what is going to happen in the black market? The black market undercuts that price. Okay? and the black market grows. Caesar's marijuana reported to the El Paso Intelligence Center in Colorado
increased 48% from an average of 175 parcels in 2012 when marijuana was commercialized to an average of 257 parcels in 2020 during the time recreational marijuana became legalized.
Now, here's something that everybody wants you to believe in, and hopefully uh Chief McCarrick can help me out in handing these out. Um, everybody says that we that we have a great ratable coming in. How much revenue will Sparta
earn by legalizing marijuana sales? Could you, Chief, could you put these up on the podium there if anybody wants to grab one? Thank you. How much revenue will Sparta earn by legalizing marijuana sales? Total pod
sales in New Jersey in 2024 just crested over a billion dollars. 1 billion there. The total adults that are in New Jersey are 7.2 million. Thus, the average sales per
adult in 2024, which is 1 billion, which is last year's number, divided by 7.2 2 million residents is $138 in pod sales in New Jersey per adult. Total tax revenue from retail
sales in New Jersey in 2024, and this is the entire state, was $20 million total. Tax revenue per adult in New Jersey. Remember, they they spent $138 per adult times
2%. And I and I have a typo there. I it says 25. That's the last line of my first paragraph. It says 25 there really means two. It should be 2%. So it's $138 per adult times 2% equals
$2.78 of tax revenue per adult in New Jersey in 2024. $2.78. This is really going to help us out a lot. I don't I I think we'll I I just don't know. adults in Sparta,
17,100, which is per the town clerk's office of registered voters in Sparta. The total projected tax revenue in Sparta, if all Sparta adults, and let's think about the demographics. If all Sparta adults consu consume the state
average per adult, the total revenue will be $47,500.38 of tax revenue to the township of Sparta. So now we are going to change Sparta forever with these pot stores for
$47,000 and $47,500. I think there's better ways to do it. The percentage of proposed pop tax revenue of total municipal of our 29 million town budget would be.16 of all sparta tax revenue.16%.
For comparison purposes, Colorado pot tax revenue as a percentage of the entire state budget is.98%. So they're selling they're they're selling a little bit more than we do here in New Jersey than we would in New Jersey. 66% of all Colorado
towns, remember this is the first town in the n the first state in the nation have banned medicinal and recreational pot sales. You know, one of the most amazing things is that, you know, the town of Madison
has rescended their rescended their laws. Madison, a very liberal town, beautiful town. Town town which certainly I would think Sparta would want to model theirelves after. And it didn't work for them. But they still
have the pot. They'll still have the pot stores, but they rescended the the pot sales. The next thing that's in the t currently in the Senate budget, and I just want you to think about this because this is the next foot that's going to next shoe that's going to drop.
Medicinal mushroom progress is possible. There actually is a chance that medicine medical magical magic mushrooms of or psychos syllabin could be legal by the end of the year in New Jersey. It was notable that the Senate budget committee took up the bill in October after
progress was made in June. So you may you open these stores, not only will be we be selling pot next year, we'll be selling mushrooms and then we have mortises, right? There are 18 There are 18 states in the
United States in which pot is legal. Of the 18, 16, 16 obey the 1,000 ft from a school. And that's property line to property line in most of the town, most of the the states
that I could find information on. So, federal laws th00and ft. I when I'm done or when when the rest of the board is done, I would like to make a motion to move that we move that we have uh a thou 1 a,000
ft put into the ordinance in section 23 IB. uh two little eye to a,000 feet property line to property line for the health to encourage the health, safety and welfare of our children. Thank you very much for taking letting me speak. Sure. Thank
you. Thank you, Alman Murphy. Yes. I uh I have questions about I I don't think we took the time to think all these through. There are hours of operation. They don't have days. It
doesn't say anything about vaping. It doesn't say anything about regulation of the uh of the amount of THC that can be in the gummies uh that are sold here. There are very different
levels and in this town I I'm I'm just 250 ft. I took a picture today of the amount coming from Richard Mine Road
to bypass the sink holes is 250 ft to get on to 15. And that picture of 250 ft was so small that it's it's just beyond me that we
can have 250 ft. And I think we need if anything a,000 ft like the rest of the state, but I don't think we need it here in Sparta at all. I'll go to uh Councilman Blumetti and
then Councilman Sure. I appreciate all the comments and all the input over last oh gosh um probably since last fall last summer whenever this whole conversation started a long time a year year and a half um
and also from uh my fellow council members um you know I'm just going to just going to clarify a few things I heard um and just share some general concepts that I I'm going to keep in mind as I as I think through this. Um,
I'm not a cannabis user myself. Uh, the fact is it's already used today by many, many residents around the country, around the world, the world, the country, the state, and in Sparta. This ordinance um does not make cannabis
legal, right? I think we all know that it's it's legal today. Um, delivery is legal today to any resident if they, you know, choose to um order it. Um, but you have heard that there is regulations in place and there's
screenings that uh makes it safer. Um, I've heard that it's I've heard again that it's commonly known, we've heard it tonight that there are several places in Sparta uh where illegal cannabis is available. I'm not claiming that. I know that for a fact.
That's what we've heard tonight and we have heard from others uh over the last months and and year. Uh that doesn't mean that's that's a safe route um for the people that are consuming it. I heard some comments around traffic. Um I
totally understand the concerns around traffic. Although in this argument that's not something I that's not relevant to me because any new business hopefully will have customers, right? And we want it's not going to bring in 10,000 cars a day. any new business that
goes into a vacant storefront in these two zones. Um, again, we're not talking about a massive structure going up where nothing is there today. Um, hopefully we'll bring in customers. So, I don't really consider traffic a variable here. Um, heard a lot of comments or a few comments around the planning board. Um,
please rest assured the planning board's views and opinions were made known to us um through a meeting that happened in the past through the official report that we had and then again tonight. Um, so don't uh don't feel that that wasn't considered. Um, couple other facts.
Heard a question or comment about wanting the content and ingredients listed. Um, so that that is by law. There's a lot of this is covered by state law of what I heard tonight from some of the concerns. Um, actually went and visited. I did some uh anybody who knows me knows I'm kind of detail
oriented. U actually, yeah, that's kind of annoying sometimes. Ask my wife. Uh I I went into two uh cannabis dispensaries um just to do some field research and again I didn't not a user did not purchase anything. I went in the door did my license got checked out they
scanned it. I told them up front look I'm not buying anything. I didn't tell them who I was but I went in walked around just to get a feel for what was happening. Um just knowing that this was coming up. So the ingredients, the content, the the the screening that goes be behind the scenes and the state just
increased their safety screening standards um to study smaller batches and to look for um more stringent requirements around what's getting through. So the supply chain is is all covered of how product gets there. So and the ingredients are listed um and
the percentages and all that from what I saw and what I've read. Couple other general comments that I think we all know, but it's illegal to drive under the influence of any substance. Okay. It's illegal for people under 21 to purchase or use recreational cannabis.
Um, I understand. I'm sure. I've heard it happens today. It happened when I was young. Again, wasn't me, but I I know kids have access to it. um having a retail cannabis location in town um is not advertising out front saying come
kids come here. I know we have to always be careful about this about where they're located. Um the two I visited and from the reading I've done and the way that the ordinances are written u which which actually the ordinances were worked on for quite a long time with lots of details. Um the signage is
controlled. Uh there's no consumption on site at all. There's no so there's a lot there's no there's restrictions around what's viewable from the roads and from residences. So there is a lot of restriction in place in these ordinances around that and having it um locally um
can offer residents a safer alternative than what they might be getting on the black market. Um so let me stop there. I'll reserve comments for later on. Okay. Thank you. Um I might have comments later on too, but I think
um some some context is required. Um, in 1910 there was a bloody Mexican revolution broke out. And you guys are thinking, okay, connect the dot for me. That's a weird way to u, but anyway, after with that 1910 res uh revolution
in Mexico um that brought a wave of Mexican immigrants into the United States that fled uh the violence into the the southwest and west and southern United States. Uh, the ensuing backlash uh was a an anti-immigrant backlash came from that. Um and u that also resulted
in a rather um long uh yearslong anti-immigrant um um campaign. Uh you saw articles in the media uh a lot of them from William Randph Hurst's newspaper empire. Uh those stories started appearing in the 1920s and 30s
about um the u immigrants coming in bringing disease and and drugs and crime uh and um um a lot of the story started getting peppered with the Mexicans use of
cannabis which was used in the United States but um to tie uh the crime and the uh um delinquency, if that's the right word, of the Mexican, they they started using the word marijuana, which was how the Mexicans refer to the uh the
cannabis. Um and stories started coming out as Mexicans would smoke marijuana and that would fill them in a rage and they would go on a crime spree. Um which was unrecognizable to the people that did use cannabis because that's not what cannabis does. Cannabis is a is has a
calming effect. Um it is uh it is used for u for pain management. Um uh but um but in nonetheless the stories were that you know cannabis you smoke cannabis and you feel the rage you go and and raping people and murdering people and
pillaging and and um and and so much that people thought that cannabis was a different drug than marijuana just because that's how the the stories were spun. Um this culminated in a very famous movie in 1936 called Ree for Madness. You might have heard of it. re the whole movie was about um Mexicans
coming in smoking their marijuana and going on as I just said crime sprees and raping and pillaging. Uh but um more than that they would tempt the uh young adolescents with this drug and the adolescence would smoke the marijuana and again they would go and and rape and
murder and and pillage and that was the whole movie. um that caused such an uproar that in 1937 uh Congress passed the Marijuana Tax Act which made uh cannabis the sale of cannabis illegal and it remained illegal until
1969 uh when the I think it was 69 uh 69 when the Supreme Court ruled the cannabis tax the marijuana tax act was unconstitutional therefore um making cannabis sales legal again. Uh but the story took an interesting twist when uh the Nixon
administration at the time saw that as as an opening. Uh because Nixon had a couple of problems at that point. Uh they he was dealing with the um civil unrest from the uh the Civil Rights Act. Uh there were many black activists that were giving the administration a hard time. There were several prominent uh
black politicians and figures that were assassinated. Uh there was um and the uprising that ensued. The second thing that they were dealing with was the um uh ant the Vietnam war and there was a uh there was um an anti-war peace nick
um that was giving Nixon also a hard time and and the opportunity was that I can use cannabis as a way to disrupt these communities. And so um quickly they they commissioned a uh u commissioned us to study the evil
effects of cannabis. Uh and and 1970 the year later the Nixon signed the Controlled Substance Act of 1970 which made cannabis a schedule one drug. And the intent of that was to use this very dracon these very draconian
laws to disrupt these communities to uh throw uh leaders of the um uh of the black movement as well as the uh anti-war movement in jail. Um and uh and that that gave us I I grew up, you know, I was born in the 60s, grew up in the 70s and ' 80s. You know, we all, if
you're my age, you grew up with the um uh with the war on drugs. Uh you got the incarceration state that ensued. Um and uh and and those laws were applied to again throw lots of people from those communities in jail for very long
periods of time. The uh black people were disproportionately charged with those crimes by a wide amount. again um just to throw those people in jail and disrupt those communities. And that last part is not a commentary on my behalf. Um uh we learned that that was the that
was um the intent of that from when the Nixon tapes were released when Nixon and his aids spoke very openly of exactly that to use the cannabis t cannabis the control substance act to disrupt those communities and throw people in jail for long periods of time. Um that was also discussed by Nixon a giant Harleyman in
subsequent interviews that that was the intent. Uh uh so we've if you're my age, you grew up with this association of cannabis, with crime, with uh with um drugs, with um um you're a loser. And so
um if if you're wondering why you feel that way, it was to some it was some degree it was we were socially engineered to think that. Um, you think about alcohol and alcohol is much more deadly than than cannabis. Uh, you
thousands of people every year die from acute alcohol poisoning. This I'm fine, I drink too much, I'm dead the next day. Um, many many times more will die of acute uh of chronic alcohol poisoning, of chronic alcohol conditions. Cigarette smoke, again, you can't there's no acute
you can't die of a cigarette overdose, but long-term effects of cigarettes, everybody knows. sugar. You can't die of a sugar overdose, but sugar is probably the number one killer of of uh any substance if you abuse it. And we practically force feed it to our kids, you know, on on on Halloween and and
Christmas and such and and having Froot Loops in the morning. Um so um again you talk about what what do we think about when we talk about al talk about um tobacco you think about the Marboro man right you get the uh James Dean you know
you get a Tom Clancy novel you know it's al cigarettes are cool right when you think about alcohol you know you think about Miller time this buds for you happy hour because alcohol is cool it's fun uh we uh it's for parties when you
think about cannabis. We think it's ugly. Um and uh you think about you're a loser. Um uh and I've talked about that in the past, but um I think a lot of I've heard what everybody was saying here and then there are valid points. Um
but I think we have to step back and realize, you know, how we we got to the point where uh thinking of cannabis as being so ugly um gave us u a lot of the views we have here today. Um, I might make a few more comments later, but I'll
leave it at that and leave the mayor have a discussion. U, excuse me, mayor. I have one more question. Um, Chief, do we have any way of checking anybody when you've pulled them over for cannabis other than
smelling it in the car? There's no way of testing. Correct. It Are you asking testing or pulling people over? No. Once you've pulled them over, is there's no way downstairs of testing anybody?
So, we have drug recognition experts that we use to uh assist with identifying if someone's under the influence of a uh narcotic. Yes. Okay. Do we have any reports of uh any
cannabis related crimes or or DUIs or anything since that's been regulated or since it's been passed in the state? So that was 2020. Do we have any statistics on that at all statewide or for our No,
just for Sparta. Um I could get statistics for you if you'd like. Yes, that might be interesting to look at. Thank you, Chief McCarrick. Do the drug I'm not sure the word that you use.
The drug recognition expert the drug recognition experts are they are they free or do they cost something? No. So certain officers are um trained and certified in this and we do pay them, right? Officers. Yes. Yes. They do
cost something. Uh there's there's not a lot right now um across the county. We we kind of share officers. So if so we don't have a drug recognition officer
in on duty 24/7 here in our town. No. Okay. Thank you. Right. Um, I just wanted to bring up one uh another item which this was uh this came out of the Denver Post. This was
published yesterday. Yesterday out of the Denver Post. How contaminated weed gets by Colorado's strict cannabis testing guidelines. Since 2019, regulators have recalled 60 plus products and fined many
companies for viol violating test protocols. The marijuana enforcement division has issued 63 recalls for fungus, mold, yeast, and causing potential that filled with heavy metals
causing potential liver injury. You know, licens have been suspended. Uh Justin Singer, the CEO of the Edible Makers Ripple, has also criticized the uh criticized MEED, which is the uh
medical marijuana enforcement division, for a lack of quality assurance oversight. This is such a new thing that there is very little oversight. There's no oversight at the federal level. There is no FDA. There's nobody looking over
the shoulder of these companies that are putting putting this stuff out. I I think it's just too early, just too early for us to to decide to bring marijuana into our town.
I mean, the health, safety, and welfare of our residents is so important. uh you know while it's while you know it's it's illegal for kids by bringing it into this town
it's normalizing it in the town there's no FDA review for cannabis there's no FDA review for the mushrooms that are the next shoe to drop and remember this was just introduced into the legislature and passed by the legislature
So, these psychotic mushrooms and uh I must admit that I do know a little bit about those um from college days. Those those are dangerous dangerous drugs and they're coming next if we open
the gateway here. Um that's it. Thank you. Thank you. I believe that we have to have a thousand feet here. Um I want to thank everyone for coming out and you know we have been dealing
with this issue for over a year. Um this was not a rushed by any means. Um the gentleman to my right um is known for his detail and known for his scrutiny. And so we went through many many iterations of this and I I want to
commend all my my council members for all the input that they provided. Um and also but the public um and I understand it. But as I think about this this this
issue, I was reminded of this quote by one of a conservative author A Ran and she said, "You can deny reality, but not the consequences of denying reality." The reality is that cannabis
has been sold and is being sold in Sparta. The reality is 65% of can of Sparta voters approved the legalization of marijuana. So a lot of
these debates about the health effects about you know crime all that that's happened already. Those were considered they were considered by the voters of Sparta and they voted 65%.
Now, what was missing from a lot of the critique where you brought up the, you know, the the negative effects, what I didn't see a single study that showed that adding the dispensary somehow is an incremental
increase in in all these health effects. That's what you have to show. Cannabis is already legal in Sparta. It's legal in the state. The debate for that has ended. We've made that
decision. And the reality is for nearly 5 years it's been sold in Sparta. How's it been sold to the smoke shops? And we can stick our head in the sand and say, "I don't think that's happening. I don't know. Oh, it's
happening." And so what this regulations are, it's a reasonable response to provide adequate regulation to something that's already going on. And the reality is that we know that it's been sold. A few years ago, $5
million worth of elicit cannabis was found in Sparta through one of these smoke shops. The reality is these smoke shops have actually breathed through the land use process. So after that one got hit for
$5 million, it went away and another one came up. Was there a site plan application? No. They they they breezed through. They didn't have to put in a full application. And what this ordinance does is require a cannabis dispensary to go through all the
vigorous requirements that a land use applicant has to do. Hearings, I mean, read the ordinance. Look at all those requirements. All these requirements that you see here, not a single smoke shop has to abide by them. So my question to some of the activists here
was, where were you when Sparta had it on the referendum? Where were you? Where were you when uh $5 million worth of illegal pot was was seized in Sparta? Where were you to say, "I don't want a single one of these smoke shops around here. They
are a vehicle for cannabis." They weren't. You weren't there. It's not until this council has decided to do something about it, to regulate it, to go through all those requirements that now all of a sudden we hear all these,
you know, parade of horribles about it. And people ask, you know, you know, how could you sell, you know, an intoxicating sub substance so near our children? Well, guess what? We have
intoxicating substances sold within 200 ft of schools. An intoxicating substance that is responsible for over 178,000 deaths. We just read it today in the proclamation. And you know what we call those? those places that sell
intoxicating substances, we call them bars, we call them restaurants, we call them liquor stores. And so you have to grapple with that reality and we haven't. What this is is grappling with reality that it is sold in this town and that we're trying to do
something about it instead of sticking our head in the sand and saying, "Well, you know, there's nothing we could do. We need to stop it." Um, no. We the debate about legalization has already happened and I um I agree with my councilman Boumeti. This is a
responsible result of that to try to regulate it. And so that's why there's mandatory ID checks. There's a security plan. There's a agreement to allow the township to audit the books. There's unfettered police access. They can just
show up. You don't need that. Now, if you talk to a zoning officer, they can't just walk in and start, you know, issuing zoning violations to wherever they please. They can't just go onto someone's property and start doing that. With this ordinance, they
can. So, when I look at this, it's a it's a reasonable response to the reality that we live in. Okay? And so, that's why I think this and and we can get into, you know, some of the the the health effects.
Again, I think that's basically irrelevant to our purposes because you haven't shown that there's an incremental increase in those health effects by simply adding a dispensary. That is a debate that goes to the legalization, which is a debate that's over in New Jersey. It's
happened, right? And there there are contrary things that you can look at. For example, now the the journal Nature, which I'm sure my my uh friend the doctor would know about, is probably the most esteemed medical journal uh in the country. And they did a comparative
analysis between drug between uh drugs and alcohol and tobacco and see which one on what posed the most risks based upon, you know, a very detailed analysis that you can only get uh published in in the journal
Nature, right? And and this is what they said. Currently, the MOA uh method of exposure results point to risk prioritization towards alcohol and tobacco rather than elicit drugs. The highe values of cannabis which are in a
lowrisk range suggest a strict legal regulatory approach rather than the current prohibition approach. So they looked at these on a risk basis and said that prohibition doesn't work. What you want to have is regulation. So that is what we are doing
here. We are gra what our job is here is is to deal in the world that we live in not in the world that we wish it would be. We can try to pass laws that help, but the reality is we live in a state that has legalized cannabis. And now we
live in a town that has done nothing to try to do anything about regulating it. It simply said, "Well, I just don't want to pay attention to that." So, we're paying attention to it and so we're trying to regulate it. And so, to me, it's a reasonable response to
that. So, I would fully support. So, let's stop denying that reality and accept it and do something about it and pass these cannabis ordinance. Thank you. You know, two wrongs don't make a right. Two wrongs don't make a right
here. And I have uh uh where was the 60 I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Where was the 65% the vote that that was taken? Was that to have a store in Sparta? That was
legalization of marijuana in Sparta. It was it was legalization. So what you would have to show is that 65% although they approved of the legalization of marijuana somehow would flip that when it came time to oh I want it legalized
in the state but just not available in my town. That that seems a a stretch that seems counter to me illogical frankly. Um, and I think that the fact that it passed so overwhelming. We had a 70% turnout in that particular in 2020.
So, you had a huge turnout. So, it's not like just a few handful of marijuana supporters showed up and got the thing passed. You had a pretty big turnout for Sparta. Yeah, you had a 65 You had a 72% turnout, I think, in the county. Um,
and Sparta was equally high. So you I mean the county average was like 66% voted for legalization. Well, then maybe we should do a referendum to see who wants to spot Thor in Sparta. I I don't I think that question was answered by the initial survey and I think it's
counterintuitive. By the we've had a referendum and all these debates about the health effects, those were debates that should have happened in 2020. They didn't. Or maybe they did and the people said, "Okay, we're going to have uh pot we're going to legalize cannabis anyway." I don't
think the town people were made aware and it was in the middle of co There was no referendum. No, there if you go look at the I'll do you want me to I'll read it to you here. Yes. There was a statewide referendum
that appeared on everyone's ballot that we want statewide. Statewide. Yeah. And it was on your ballot when you went into the ballot box as a Sparta voter that was in front of you and you had the opportunity to vote yes or noificity.
That was a presidential election. Hey. Hey. Can we not go cross talk here? So, I I've said enough on it. So, we can Anan is cannabis sales are cannabis sales legal in Sparta
right at this moment. Well, no, they're not. Are they? Presently, they're not. They're not. No. Jim. Jim, why are cannabis sales going on in this town? Why are they going on? Well, what's going on? I can't answer that. This is speculation. Why not? You're the town
manager. I don't know everything is going on. A whole lot of things, but not all that. You know what's going on. I don't think it's a fair question. That's not a fair question. I think that is a fair question. Okay. Cannabis is illegal is is not legal in Sparta. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Now, so if we have 250, excuse me, I'm speaking still. 250 ft. Let's think about that. So, if the PNC bank goes out, we could put a cannabis store right there. So, when I'm watching my six-year-old play softball across the
street, if the game's not going too well, I can just go across the street and get some cannabis, right? Or maybe the six-year-old wants wants to watch his dad eat some gummies. Or maybe the maybe the do the uh the dentist building
right next to the PNC Bank. That's 250 ft. We can't have this be 250 ft. It's got to be a thousand feet from the property line. I make the motion that we amend I make the motion that we amend
section 23 1B section 2 little I from 250 ft to 1,000 ft and change in line five from entrance door of the cannabis retailer
to property line to property line. And then at the end of the paragraph, put in this is to protect the health, safety, and welfare of Sparta. That's my motion. Is there a second? We
have a second for uh Councilman Scott's motion. I have a second. Okay, we have we need a roll call, right? Because it relates discussion on that. Oh, you want a discussion on it? Yes. Okay. Hi. Um that suggestion would be um would
open us up to discriminatory practices because cannabis would be a retail shop and we would be setting separate um separate uh boundaries for cannabis uh against any other type of retail business and not being a lawyer. I'll ask um on to see if what my
interpretation of that is correct. That's preposterous. So, with a lot of questions in law, the answer is not black and white. Um, it may or may not necessarily subject us to a lawsuit. There are innumerable
instances where a plaintiff could make a claim for discriminatory practice. Um, as we know, the alcohol establishments in this state are allowed by law, by statute to be um 250 ft, but in my
opinion, not necessarily. But it it it's not a satisfactory answer maybe that you're looking for, but the short answer is um it it depends. It depends. Why wouldn't there be laws if this was true? Why wouldn't there be lawsuits all throughout the United States in those 18
states that I mentioned that prod is legal in? Why wouldn't there be lawsuits about that about the 250 ft when 16 of those states have used the thousand ft rule? There have been lawsuits in New Jersey challenging that and they've won.
And part of that is that if you write an ordinance uh that on paper looks like you're allowing uh cannabis in certain zones and then write a um a restriction such as this thousand foot rule that in effect restricts every single property you've in effective you you've created a
sort of a pmpkin village of of cannabis shops. Will the thousand foot rule go to the mushrooms also? Councilman Scott, can you please let the gentleman finish? Never mind. Thank you. I'm done. So is that um can you opine on on if we
create an ordinance that that um on paper allows cannabis shops in a certain zone, but in practice with the uh with the thousand foot restriction that was described effectively eliminating nearly every or maybe every single uh uh lot in
that zone. Um I believe there was a lawsuit that challenged that uh and the township lost. Is that correct? Or maybe you're not familiar with that. I'm not familiar with the law. So, what I will say is that the fundamental purpose and duty of any township is to regulate the health,
safety, and welfare. Um, I'm not opining on the policy question of a,000 ft versus 250. But I as I sit here I'm reasonably confident that if this council were to go to a th00and feet and site as its reason uh the health and
safety and welfare I think any challenge based on a discriminatory practice would be overcome by the health and safety reasons for enacting that. And as as all of us know, there are municipalities in Sussex County um who do use the thousand
feet for cannabis and that do use a lesser standard for liquor uh dispensaries. And whether or not a lawsuit would be challenged in in those municipalities is really just a a question of if and when. But as I said
here, my opinion would be that going to a thousand feet would not subject the town without other factors to a lawsuit. I understand. Thank you. Um, but this would be a conditional use, not a retail store. It's a conditional use. Correct.
That's correct. So it wouldn't offend any other retail store. Well, I think I mean the conditional use is more additional requ put puts the point that the scrutiny that's going to be applied to
these cannabis dispensaries um you know is is going to be a heightened scrutiny. Um it's not going to get uh the the site plan waiver pass through that these uh spoke shops got. Um they and and again
uh any applicant that comes in if you read the actual ordinance all that they have to uh abide by all the discretion that is at you know I think someone brought up about our you know what input will the police have the the police have a huge amount of input into this and can
tack on additional requirements to the applicant. They're not even in the ordinance to say, "Look, you know, when we decide whether to give a letter of support for a particular applicant applicant, council can say, you know what, we'll give a letter of support,
but you need to have uh CCTV cameras. You need to do a whole bunch of another requirements." I I've heard of dispensaries where there's an actual police officer in the dispensary the whole time. So, you know, god forbid, you know, a a child tries to
go in there, good luck if there's a police officer. And what this does is an actual funding mechanism to pay for it. Instead, we instead we we have no funding mechanism for any of the regulations that we want to impose. This is a funding uh me mechanism for that.
So, sorry, I wanted you to do it. If you want to have a comment about No, no comment. Okay. I I I know you were worried about the uh 250 ft of the thousand feet and that being a potential lawsuit, but according to the New Jersey
uh the New Jersey Cannabis Regulatory Commission, a municipality may enact an ordinance or regulation to a determine which classes of cannabis business are allowed in their jurisdiction and how many of each class and B regulate
location and hours of operation. for cannabis businesses except for the times of operation of a licensed delivery service. So we can regulate how far it is from a school or a nursery
school or or or playground playground, right? Local regulations may include requirements that a cannabis business premises be a certain distance from the closest church, synagogue, temple, and other
place used exclusively for religious worship or from the closest school, playground, park, or child daycare facility. There were the words. So, I mean, it looks
like we're covered. if we went to a th00and feet. Okay, we've had sufficient argument on on on the 1000 ft versus 250. I will point out that in the in the statute itself, there is no uh and you know the state at the time that had passed the
initial state regulation had a a bevy of people testify before them. Um and and decided that they I don't think they put any such limit if I'm right about the statute um on on the distance between schools. we simply uh put 250 because at
least in my mind why are we desperately treating cannabis differently than we do alcohol particularly when you look at the health effects right if if if you were right that that same person that Councilman Scott talked about who's you know was bummed out his kid struck out at first b at the plate walks over the
well that same person can walk over uh to a bar that's very near that same thing and pick up a substance that by car has more health effects and damaging health effects than cannabis. So I don't that's my concern is that you would get
people say why are you desperately treating alcohol to cannabis? What rationale do you have, you know, other than your general ability to do so to to uh to restrict the thousand foot? What what you know, you have to narrowly
tailor the ordinance to the specific purpose that you're doing and you have to have reasons for it. And I just don't see why you can why you think it's why we should treat alcohol and treat cannabis any differently than we do alcohol. And so, um, that's why I don't
I don't think the thousand foot I think Councilman Cherello's point that it would be tantamount to not having any type of dispensary given the thousand foot. So, I think we've debated the point enough. We have it on the table. Um, so it's the the motion of men. So,
why don't we have I think we've sufficiently debated this. Nothing anyone is going to say in addition to this I think is is is going to persuade anyone. So, why don't we go to a vote? I just with all due respect, I have one thing to say that is not FDA approved.
Alcohol went through a tremendous amount of litigation, FDA approval before it went from being mixed in in people's basement to being sold in the store. Um, cannabis could be marijuana could be
grown in the basement of any one of these stores and it's not regulated. It's regulated by the state. It's not regulated by the FDA. And the police are not going to go in and be able to test anything. That's not their job to to
test any of it to see how much THC is truly in any of these gummies, any of these that the the percentage. It is so much stronger than when we were kids. It's very, very detrimental. Very
detrimental. With all due respect, Mayor Clark, you told us numerous times and you've said it to the town numerous times that you are a just a vessel of the people and what the people want. Now, your friend over there, Mr. James,
the Democratic operative, he wants the pot, but the rest of the town doesn't want it. The people of Sparta do not want it. The people are calling for a,000 ft. And there's and you know it's that the people are calling for a thousand feet. You have said numerous
times that you're a vessel of the people and I would hope that you will be tonight. We all are. We all are. Yeah. And and and my view on that is that the people spoke in 2020. Not for Sparta. Not for Sparta. Sparta voters did. Not
for Sparta. Sparta vote. Please vote in a minute. Yeah. Let's go. They were thinking about Jersey City, Patterson, Elizabeth, Trenton, Atlantic City, Camden, New York, Hobok, and Asbury. I don't I don't agree with your comments around other towns. Just for the record, I comments do not reflect the council.
Yeah. Don't I don't share. I think they're violent, ugly, comparisons, other towns. Then I then we should do another referendum and and take a vote from Sparta. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Now, we have a roll call. This
is on the amendment. I'm on the amendment. Correct. Councilman Scott. Yes. Wait, you're going to This This is for a,000 ft. This is for the amendment. This is to pass the amendment. To pass the amendment for 1,000 ft. No. Council,
this I apologize. So, you're voting. Yeah. voting to you're voting on whether or not to amend 257 to change the buffer to 1,000 ft. Okay. I I'm sorry. Thank you for clarifying. You're welcome. Councilman Scott,
yes to 1,000 ft. Councilman Blumemedi, no. Councilman Cherello, no. Deputy Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark, no. So, the amendment has failed. So now we go to um 257, the full ordinance.
Um so may I have a motion uh to adopt uh ordinance 257? I move that we adopt ordinance 257 as introduced. May I have a second, please? I will second. Uh madame clerk, may I have a roll call? No. Can we have some
discussion? Let us remember this will be your legacy. This will be your legacy. We've we've had a discussion. We did so before the vote. That's what it was for. Um so now we've we've we've moving to the actual vote. Councilman Scott,
no. Councilman Bli, yes. Councilman Cherello, yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy, no. Mayor Clark, yes. 257 have been adopted.
All right, we're now up to uh 258. So, madame clerk, could you please read ordinance 258? Ordinance adopting a new chapter 8 entitled cannabis license requirements of the code of the township of Sparta to add municipal lensure
requirements for cannabis facilities. Okay. Thank you. Uh we're now up to public comment related to 258. And so again I you know you're allowed to speak as much as you want but I would hope that you know given the hour um that
people make new points not rehash points they already made with respect to 257 rehash. I like come on. All right. No pun intended. Pun intended. Um all right 258. So this is
about the actual locations. So you've stated a number of things. Uh the left side yeses have stated a number of things and we didn't really have an opportunity to rebut those but I'd like
to address 258 and in doing so rebutt some of those. So Dean, it sound like you visited two locations and you saw what I've seen in most of these that you know the product's well displayed professional blah blah blah blah. Do you know anything about inversions?
Inversion. Uh probably not. Okay. So, in New York State right now, they're dealing with uh unofficial uh pipelines of product being um sent into uh official stores,
official dispensaries. So, that should be of concern. And this is kind of this whole argument of yes like Neil people have voted for legalization but I would disagree that they necessarily voted for dispensary within SPAR we can we don't need to dispute that it's just you know
there's obviously people have different opinions um but as we frame now going forward I would just urge you guys to tread carefully and consider that inversion is a thing um it's happening in New New York uh state Um, and let me
just see. Uh, Stizzy is one of the giant producers um that they're investigating, but they have about seven other uh producers. So, it's just something that again we're not going to have the capacity to deal with
that to check on these things. Um, there there was an unfair question that was made and it and it relates to these uh dispensaries. Um, but I still want to bring it up, which is, you know, Mr. Zep, I'm not going to ask you. Chief,
I'm not going to ask you, but since Mr. Mayor kind of said, where was everyone when there was this $5 million bust? Where was everyone when the smoke shops were selling this? Okay. I didn't know about it, but I guess I I kind of would like to know where was Sparta Township,
where where were the police? If we know this is going on, and Mr. that maybe doesn't know and I'm not I'm not lodging a complaint but you've tied and I think I understand why but you've tied
257 to kind of say all right here here is what it should look like here's the legalization method this is this is the correct way going forward and I apprec I appreciate that and we also appreciate it's not going to be perfect but how do we
address going forward how do we address if we couldn't address it in years past. How are we going to address the the underground sales going forward? We're going to have those measures that are in 257. Um but why didn't we address it
before? Uh so I'm not concerned about this the dispensaries except for things like conversions. I'm not concerned about mold, yeast, whatever. Any restaurant is going to have product issues, right?
Um I am concerned about uh the marketing because to the point about the 250 ft I disagree you know why why are we treating cannabis differently? I we can go to 1910, but I could go to 1887 and
say the NIH was created in a little one room laboratory in Staten Island and the NIH just found us not just there's several studies which document how cannabis is not, you know, this calming
drug all the time to to uh the non-resident's point, I forget his name. Um it's it's uh you know it does depend on user, right? So and and I think to to Mr. Scott's point, it's it's user
specific. So I think the difference is is that when you have a federally federally regulated substance and to Margie's point, you know, we're not making moonshine anymore. It had to go through this federal process. cigarettes. Like Dan, I appreciate 1970s
like Marlboro, man. But if you look at a pack of cigarettes now, like we can't pull that thing and get a pack of cigarettes anywhere now. People can't smoke them in restaurant. People can't smoke them in restaurants. They're super expensive. I don't smoke. Um, but they
have like diseased lung tissue on the packaging. But cannabis has, you know, gummies and edibles. They're very attractive, colorful. you put them in a pocket, in a parent's pocket, and the kids don't know any better. So, I get the con I get the arguments, but I just
think going forward, we need to we need to look at this presentation better. I don't know how we do that. I'll quickly address the gummies, edibles, because this is not, you know, people thinking about it as a product aimed at kids, you know, it it's not. It
if you smoke cannabis, it stinks. So, a lot of people choose to u eat it instead or drink cannabis infused water. It's a lot less smelly that way. Um, what are you going to put cannabis in? Um, probably a convenience food. Go into a convenience store, what do you see? You
see brownies and gummies and that kind of stuff. You don't you're not going to put a sell a cannabis infused ham sandwich. It's it's just not going to happen. So, that's why people consume the gummies and they are labeled appropriately. Um, I know that it's legal in the state
of New Jersey, but unfortunately you're getting your information from Dr. Google, and Dr. Google didn't go to medical school. In nature is not a refereed medical journal. So, your information is
incorrect. Just like, you know, we we have cell phones, right? And there cell towers. How many communities didn't want a cell tower in their community and voted against it because of the microwaves because some people felt that it could cause
cancer and that was done. So, I see your idea of this, but you've never treated a patient that's been under cannabis, and I invite you all to come with me down to Newark, and I'll be glad to let you see
what you want to happen to our community. So, I'm sorry what the point of that is. So, cannabis used inappropriately is bad. I'm not going to No, it's not just inappropriately. It causes parasympathetic in naive users at
any dosage. Uh it depends on the on the patient certainly does history. Um and you can say the same thing about alcohol and tobacco use because all of the research that was done the THC was about 2%. That's not the case. Edibles have a
much higher absorption rate than smoking it. Absolutely much higher. And hash oil is in the 80s and 90s%. Okay. So the thing is your information don't go to Dr. Google. Look at the NIH. Look at
look at Nature is not a referee journal. Look at the journal. All I can tell you is at University Hospital, we have a huge problem. And the problem you see with opioids, the problem with cannabis is going to be even worse. But how does
the cannabis retailer impact this? Is it going to go away if we have no retailers? Like how does No, but that doesn't mean that you have more and the cell phone towers. Does that make the cell phones go away? Do you see Milburn and Short Hills want a
cannabis dispensary? Absolutely not. This is a beautiful community. I've been here 40 years practicing. In what way would a cannabis retailer make it less beautiful? What way? Yes. Because it's going to be advertised. The kids are
going to see it. You're going to have more adults thinking, "Okay, it's it's legal. Let me try it." You're going to have more issues. I'm just telling you're going to have more issues. And in Newark, where there's dozens of dispensaries everywhere. We are currently, when we have the patients
come and we ask them, "Where do you get your cannabis? Do you know how much THC?" They don't. Most of them buy it on the street. Now, you say you're going to regulate everything. How come you haven't regulated the smoke shop? Why is a smoke shop selling cannabis? It shows
you can't regulate anything. You really can't. Because if you can't show me that you can regulate a smoke shop, how are you going to regulate with this ordinance when more cannabis dispensaries come out and then I have to deal with these patients when they have
to have anesthesia and they have a psychotic break. I'm the one that has to deal with that. You don't have to deal with it. in the poor kid that happens to grab the gummies and you have an issue, start reading what happens to
kids brains using cannabis. You're making it, oh, it's all okay. It's not all okay. I don't think anyone's saying it's not all okay to drive cars either, but we have regulations to make sure the kids don't drive cars. I understand. But you're comparing cannabis to alcohol. Yes, I am. And you're incorrect. And
I'll be glad to give you real journal articles that show that you are incorrect. Now, I did give you some. I hope you read those papers because they're good papers and there's about 50 references that are in referee journals
so that it will correct your misunderstanding. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I will point out, ma'am, uh in my paying job, uh I handle expert work. In fact, I'm dealing with an issue right now about whether a certain
treatise would be admissible, right? And one of the standards is is it generally accepted? And I can tell you uh nature you can pull up any court case and experts have been able to site that journal. uh if it was if it is as you
described not a wellrespected journal um then it would not have been admitted into court under uh federal rule of evidence 80318. So I I think your comments about trying to say and or or to disparage nature as a a lack of not a respected
journal is just incorrect. No, you're you're incorrect. You tell me what medical school gives nature for their doctors to read. Okay. I'm there when they do literature reviews. Never seen nature as one of the New England Journal
of Medicine. Yes, I see it. But not nature. What lawyers do and what they do in in courts, that's totally different than medicine. It's actually not. But yeah, lawyers are they are not allowed to lie and that
would be called perjury. Um Joanne Scaly, um Sparta, I just want to congratulate you, uh mayor, on losing all respect from the people of Sparta for your word. You gave your word that you're here for the people. Obviously, you heard from so many people.
Obviously, you look on Facebook, you hear from so many people that are against this. It was 2020, you're saying, but the people in Sparta didn't want it in Sparta. It was COVID time. Um so, I don't know what you're doing. Um, and then another thing, how you said
that it's all regulated and I think um, Councilman Scott said about cannabis being tested and it's pure, not what they sell in the smoke shops. Just came out in March 2025 in New Jersey that they tested 30% of it came back
contaminated. This could kill someone. So, we want someone to buy cannabis in Sparta and then have come, oh, someone died from cannabis in Sparta. I know it could happen anywhere, but it happened in Sparta. Do you want that? And the
other thing is anywhere from town within 10 minutes of driving time, you are at a dispensary. We do not need them. It's not going to make us any money. I believe um Councilman Scott's figures I even believe it could be lower. So why
do we need this? And Reverend Brown's school, the playground, is surrounded by the zone for cannabis. So the kids gonna be out there playing on the playground and seeing people going in and out of cannabis shop. Not something I want. So
shame on you for your word. Thank you. Thank you. So uh we're up to what? 258. Yeah. Councilman Dan was correct when he mentioned uh previously on uh ordinance
that the ordinance doesn't take effect until 20 days after and uh it was regarding the movies like you appointed 21 days maybe it's no it's 20 days but you were right like you you guys like appointed people but then you passed the ordinance and the ordinance only takes
effect 20 days later so you have to redo that thing so I mean that's the law so regarding uh 25 uh8. Um again, if the people behind me, uh I'm not in favor. I'm not against your your passing the
ordinance. I just want to educate the citizens of Sparta. Uh 17 years ago, we were very active. This is a Faulner act. um you need five sponsors, registered voters that would
be called the petitioners and then you could have anybody go collect the signatures. So if you guys are passionate about this and yes, even a council member can be a uh a sponsor or actually one of the petitioners. So five petitioners, registered voters, you have
20 days. Tomorrow's day one, you have 20 days. I mean, I just feel sorry for Roxan because I'm enlightening everybody. It's just going to be more work for her. And um to to reach out to me, um I actually have a a website that
I haven't done anything with. I was from 2008 to 2012 and it was called spartre.blogpot.com. And the email address to get in touch with me is spartreall@yahoo.com. And I just uh I'm willing to uh to show you the direction,
to show you how to do it, to answer your questions, you know, like when um Jack Jack Castmore Jack Castmore was it Jim Castmore was talking about his Oprah request, the answer was it wasn't vague.
It was too broad. It was a broad thing. So, I mean, you guys could have said that you and the town of Sparta, the the people behind me don't know how active I am in the state of New Jersey, how many lawsuits, how many recall efforts, how many tax appeals, how many foreclosures
I've done, what I know, how many people I sent to jail for corruption, how many recall efforts. So, um, spartre.blackspot.com, blackspot.com spotteryahoo.com and uh when I get a
chance for the next five minutes I still want to continue with the minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? No, we we appreciate your uh influence instruction on ordinances and your personal accomplishments. Thank you.
Well, I actually didn't tell you my accomplishments. I I I heard them. I didn't get into specifics. That could be later. of PA County and Bergen County and more comments to the substance of the ordinance, but yes,
you guys have to do that. All right. Any other public comments on ordinance 258? All right. Thank you. All right. Hello again, Eric Aronson again. Um, couple first of all, 258. As I said
before, I I I oppose that as well. Um, a couple points of of order from things that were previously stated that relate to this ordinance. The 2020 election, Mr. Clark, you spoke heavily about that. The reason was there always good voter turnout for that, as everybody recalls, that was a major presidential election between Biden and Trump. It wasn't
because of the marijuana statewide referendum. It was because of the presidential election. We all know presidential elections, especially the last 8, 12 years, have got pretty significant voter turnout. Um whereas the non-presidential election years
quite the opposite. Um the marijuana or uh referendum statewide that went through at the time it was statewide to allow legalization within New Jersey for people to possess and use. Had nothing to do with Sparta Township, had nothing to do with sales within Sparta Township. It was just a general uh ordinance or
sorry or general law constitutional change of the state constitution to legalize possession within New Jersey. That's all it was. So, I think you're purposely trying to mislead the audience here. So, for that, uh, Mr. Scott, Mr. Mr. Yeah, Mrs. Murphy, Mr. Scott, thank you for being the grown-ups in the room.
Um, and and calling us that are speaking against it activists. There's only one activist here. We're residents of the township. You work for us. We don't work for you. We're not activists. We deserve better respect than that. Thank you. Yes.
So, there's a dispensary in the smoke shop. Sir, can you share your name, please? Uh, John. Your name? What's that? Okay. Oh, your name? John Payne. Okay. Thank you. A little bit of a pain, I hope. Um, thank you. There's already a dispensary, a smoke shop in in Sparta
that I don't know what it the term is called with the stickers and the basically the gifting, I think it was called, right? The gifting. So is that how is that not illegal? And how does this ordinance that you just passed and
-8 can change anything in terms of you know defending the uh illegal distribution of marijuana in uh in Sparta? Well, if you look at the actual ordinance, all the requirements that are there, they have to abide by it. So a
dispensary would not be able to do what a pot store is doing right now. which is not knowing where it comes from. No inventory checks, no security protocols, none of that. Spencer has to abide by that, right? And for whatever
reason, Sparta made no decision u hasn't regulated it. But if it's legal, no. Well, they haven't they haven't done any regulation of the spot to to pot stores. What we do have regulations which the uh
state has done is a very vast network and uh specific on how to regulate cannabis and we're simply saying we want that type of regulation here instead of the head in the sand approach of you know we won't pay any attention to it
and we'll just let it continue to flourish. Well, it's illegal. No. So it's the head in the sand argument is is irrelevant because it's illegal. But why can't you not taking care of this? I can't tell you why that has been. That's not all. I am dealing with is a
situation where where cannabis is legal, right? And I think the point that I was trying to make with respect to the referendum was that the fact that there was a a a huge election that year means a lot of people had the opportunity to look at that referendum. It wasn't an
off year where only 30% vote. it. So, everyone who saw that ballot had the opportunity to say, "Do you approve amending the Constitution to legalize a controlled form of marijuana, cannabis?" And 65% of Spartans said yes.
And so, I I I disagree with uh the statements that say that I'm not uh doing the will of the people. The will of the people spoke in 2020 and they spoke again when all these pot stores were able to open and no one tried to stop them. No one came to this town council and said, "I want a regulation
to stop these." I think people have come to the town and to the police department with proof of distribution of marijuana in this town through the smoke shops and it hasn't been addressed. So, how does you know that's the way the
reason that you passed this was because you couldn't reinforce the current law? Not necessarily. Well, why wasn't it addressed? I don't I can't address why it hasn't before. I I'm telling you, I'm dealing with reality right now. And so,
we we are dealing with an unregulated market. I'm trying to regulate it. And part of it is also uh I believe in free market capitalism, right? I believe that the marketplace my hope and it may prove that I'm wrong. Okay, let you know policy makers do things all the time and
they may be proven wrong. But my hope is that the legal dispensaries will crowd out and put out of business the illegal ones, right? Because if you want to go to and know what's in the stuff, then you need to go to a dispensary. Yeah. You get a pot store, you don't know
where it's coming from. There's no regulation. Every every dispensary has to identify the amount of THC in it, etc. They don't have to do that at pot stores. So that, you know, I may be proven wrong about that and that's okay. But that that is where I my head is on this. I
just think we can't continue to have this kind of head in the sand approach and and not try to do something about something that the voters overwhelmingly said they wanted to be legal. Yeah. But Mr. Scott, as Mr. Scott said, to your point, you might make a mistake. Many towns have, right? They're rescending
their the rules around having marijuana in their towns. some of the and we can do so after five years but the stores will be here forever. Stores will be here forever. I just see feel you would they have to have a license every year. So So what you've done is you changed
the normalization of the bar of our town around having smoke shops and marijuana distribution within the town. It's moved the bar up, made the town less safe. Congratulations. Thank you.
non-resident. Um, so just a couple points of content. Oh, sorry. Wait for the clock to restart. Cool. Uh, so a couple points of clarity since it's been back and forth. Firstly, about the gifting. Um, the gifting is confusing. And it's confusing
because when the mad dash to actually pass this law happened, what the state did was they wanted to ensure that people who were using marijuana, that were smoking marijuana, that were giving marijuana to other people were not penalized because what they did at the same time was essentially change the
category of the criminality. I don't know, that's probably not the right word, but essentially that's what they did. So, they wanted to ensure that if someone gets picked up on the street or in a motor vehicle stop and there's weed sitting in a d in the dash and it's just
sitting out. Well, again, not a cop. Probable cause. Now, we can search the car. Now, we can look, we can look into all their background, all these things. That was part of the reason why the gifting, what we call now the gifting loophole, all of us, came to fruition in the first place. It was a way to make
sure that people were not criminalized and put into the system for something as small as gifting. So what was done was criminal enterprises and that's my opinion. I'm in no way saying anyone's a criminal. That's my opinion. Because why else would you do it in a shady way unless you wanted to make some money
without paying taxes. They started getting certificates of occupancy, opening up these stores, selling on paper glass, novelties, cigarettes, tobacco, all these things. And then they would essentially, hey, I'm looking for some good stuff. Okay, I'm gonna charge you
$50 for this pen. You're going to pay $50 for that pen and I'm going to gift you gift you $50 worth of marijuana. That turned into a multi-million dollar enterprise all over the state of New Jersey that have been raided, shut down, and raided again. But the police and the
state enforcement cannot keep up with the amount because of the loophole. Which is why currently, if anybody actually looked into it, there is a law that's being adjudicated under the hemp, New Jersey hemp bill that would make CBD, CBG, cannabis, and all of these other pro products illegal to be sold anywhere except for a dispensary for
this exact reason, because gifting has gotten so out of control and they're putting millions of dollars into criminals hands, avoiding municipal and state taxes, and a litany of other health concerns. Now, the ballot question. The official language of the ballot question, per the NJ.gov website. This amendment would legalize a
controlled form of marijuana called cannabis. Only persons at 21 years of age could use cannabis products legally. Cannabis Regulatory Commission would oversee the new adult cannabis market. This commission was created in 2019 to oversee the state's medical cannabis program. The scope of the commission's
new authority would be detailed in laws enacted by the legislature. All retail sales of cannabis products in the new adult cannabis market would be subject to the new state's sales tax if authorized by the legislature. A municipality may pass a local ordinance
to change a local tax on cannabis products and legalization. It was on the ballot. To say it wasn't is ridiculous. To say that the giftters are and the police are not doing their job because the gifters are still open is ridiculous. The police do not oversee tax uh tax fraud, tax evasion. They do
not oversee, like was mentioned, they can't just walk into a store and decide that they're going to take over the inventory for the day and put together a list. The cops can't, but the CRC can only if the town lets them in the building. I know because I dealt with it in my former town where I lived, which is part of the reason why I moved
outside of Newton because the town was not doing anything about it. And the town was allowing giftters to come in and they were making a killing. And now because of those giftters all got caught, they can never get a CRC license. they can never obtain any kind of actual license. They can't do business in the state of New Jersey. So
all of these fears while coming from the absolute right place is simply just not based in the reality of what the CRC allows when it comes to regulation and upkeep. And the police can do their job under this new bill, ordinance, whatever you want to call it. If you guys pass it
all, the police will be able to do spot checks. They get a 24-hour surveillance camera. They'll be able to monitor. If little Joey wanders in from school a little later than normal and he's got red eyes, you can call the police and you can tell the police that little Johnny was came home high and he got it
from his buddy at school. Well, who had a school boy? Well, it was the older guy's brother. Well, how old is he? He's 22. We got it all on the camera. So, the only way, you're absolutely correct. The only way that you're going to put this down is with a regulated actual process unshackling the police, allowing the
zoning officers to do their job, and you're going to be putting all of those smoke shops out of business. Because if you read the ordinance, it literally says whoever put it in there made the absolute right call. It was the same exact process used in Jersey City and in Newark and in Camden, which is making it
so that if you're caught gifting, it is done. You're done. You lose your CO, you hit a fine, you possibly even go to jail depending on whether or not you're working with local or state police. So, at the end of the day, everybody's coming from the right place. I get it. You're concerned, but at the end of the
day, what you're doing tonight is the only way you're really going to stop this. Thank you. Thank you. Well, it was it is illegal to sell it in Sparta. Period. As of right now, as of right now, it is illegal. Well, no. You're not
dispensary sell marijuana without being a dispensary. Even in a dispensary, it is not legal to sell in Sparta. Can't have dispensary because there's no license. Correct. Joan Ferman. Um, just following up, the gentleman just read, can I ask you, are
you speaking on behalf of private citizen? No, on behalf of the planning board. Um, but the gentleman did bring up the um question that was on the ballot, but the ballot didn't say anything about 250 ft. And I think if you ask those people, it they might give
you a different answer if you said 250, 150 ft, 1,000 ft. Um, but I'm here because now, you know, I I gave the planning board um suggested eight different things. Two of them have been discussed. one is the referendum and the
fact that um that's not being addressed that was voted down and also the um thousand ft. So um other than that the other eight points have not been addressed. So I'm very disappointed in that one of which
is you know we're asking that the planning board did does not say whether in fact they are for it or against it. Not for it, not against it, but we asked for clarification on some of these issues which make it difficult for us to interpret it. I don't know a lot about
this, but I have heard gummies, hemp, CBD, THC, all this stuff, but your definition is still unclear yet. We're supposed to interpret it. You didn't address any of those issues before you voted. You said you're so detailed, but you ignored the details that we tried to
give you. Mr. Churella, you said this discussion became became um started last year at the planning board and it did, but she came and said, "Well, what can you find within 500 ft in the town center?" And our planner said nothing. He said, "Well, how about 400 ft?" The
planner said, "Nothing." So, the planner didn't say anything at that point. The planner said, "I'll get back to you." And then No, no, no. She said for 500 ft that there was nothing because that was the original thing that came up. And then you said, "Well, can you go back and try 300 ft?" Well, I guess you couldn't find 300 feet because now it's
250 and now it's 250 doortodoor. So, I guess the thing is, you know, why couldn't it be a thousand feet and and nobody ever addressed really why it had to be in the TCC zone. So, our questions were not addressed. Um, I am disappointed in that and I'll leave it at that.
Thank you. Thank you, Joan. Joan, I will say two things just comments on here. Earlier you mentioned about the example of why couldn't this be in the ED zone. Retail is not allowed in the ED zone. So that would be a much more dramatic change. Retail is allowed in these two zones. Um but this is not going to be
considered retail. It's going to have to come but you have to change the ordinance for uh conditional use. So if you're going to change it for conditional use, you have to change the ordinance. So whether you're changing the TCC ordinance or the ED ordinance, it shouldn't make a difference because
you're just going to put conditional use into one of them. But retail is already allowed and this is a form of retail. Correct. But you still would change an ordinance. So you chose to change it into TCC with 250 ft rather than recommendation of a,000 ft where maybe
you could go into a different zone perhaps. Yeah. M your view on it. Um, also your other items, some of the items that the planning board put in here, um, these, some of these are handled by the state law, right? Definition of cannabis, all these other things, and some they're also detailed in the
ordinance. Um, I brought this up at a prior meeting that I didn't think that the definition uh went far enough, and in fact, it was only the first sentence in the state definition. You did not incorporate the whole definition. The whole definition includes something
about hemp. How are we supposed to interpret it? I want to finish up because you're out of time, but but the state regulates what can be sold at dispensaries. End of story. CBD. We don't have a chance to say what's sold there. That's going to depend on state law. Where can CBD be sold? I know you're cutting me off. This is
going to come back to bite everybody. The state regulations dictate a number of answers to what was the planning board put here as questions and the ingredients. Um, what's allowed to be sold dispensaries is not up to the council. That's that's already. How about outside dispensaries? If somebody
is coming to us and they're saying, "We want to sell CBD. We want to do this. We want to do that." Are they allowed to under this, right? It's CBD. Yeah. Um I don't know. I don't either. I don't either. Well, CBD is in these products,
right? Yes. And they're also alone. So, yes, this is allowed in dispensaries. In dispensaries. But how about somebody coming in saying, "I just want to sell CBD." CBD alone? Yeah. I I don't know. I mean, that's not what this regulation is about. It's about cannabis which has a
THC. And I think um I do want to point out that I mean you you've taken uh kind of great pains to to tell us that we haven't considered uh your you know what is in uh the memorandum. I I think we have but I will also uh point out that
it would be helpful uh in in future correspondence from the planning board where you make recommendations. There needs to be analysis and tie that to um the municipal land use law. Why you're you know there's things in here just says signage
concerns. Well, and then without addressing that actually ordinance does deal with with signage that it you know this the the zone itself already has sign requirements. There's also laws and regulations regarding what the dispensary can call itself. It can only
uh state what its name is. they can't do any type of other advertising. And so I I think and and if if planning board's going to make a recommendation to the council and have they need to they need to have a little more than a page and it
needs to be why are you making this recommendation? What is the basis of it? What's the analysis of it? What we have here are just sort of bullet points. Well, we're also asking questions and they're not getting answered. And I I'm I'm gonna ask one more time. Can CB can a standalone CBD shop be approved?
Apparently, it has because those those smoke shops are selling CBD products. So, I I think you may want to check with, you know, uh our you know, our our office or or how they were allowed to do so. Um but, you know, it's moving in the direction that and anything um that h
you know, and that was another issue which is we're simply changing the uh an ingredient that's already sold. We're taking something that has, you know, you can go to any of these stores and get CBD. What this is is simply, it has THC in it. And all of a sudden, we're going
to put this entirely uh, you know, new regulatory regime based upon a simple addition of THC in there. That's what we're doing. So, we're treating these a lot differently and more and a lot more scrutiny uh, than cannabonoid products,
products that do not have THC in it. Yeah. So that may be something that you know the planning board may want to address that and in and part of their master plan. How do how do I want to regulate you know cannabonoid businesses that don't sell products that have THC in that. That's something that that is
probably appropriate for the the master plan review committee. Well, we thought this would be appropriate for the master plan as well. Okay. Any other public comments on 258? Hi. Hi. I still live on North Shore. Um,
quick question. We kept hearing alcohol liquor stores and all that stuff. Um, can you guys tell me which liquor store is within 250 ft of a school in Sparta?
I haven't measured it, but Burk's Liquor is pretty darn close to It's not 250 ft. I've been here 46 years now. You know that I know a lot of the distances. 250 ft will not get you into the middle of
even if you're walking. Forget driving. It's not 250 ft. The liquor factory is next to is on 181. If you are walking, you go from the liquor factory to Dr. Lewis's office or PNC depending on which way you go. Then you have to
cross over 613 which goes into the plaza. The ball field where the six-year-old's dad is pissed off at the raft is more than 250 ft itself. So I can tell you right now Mohawk Avenue is
not 250 ft from Burks. It's not 250 ft from the liquor factory. White Deer Liquors, which has been here longer than I think everybody except for maybe Margie because her uncle built Lake Mohawk or something. I don't know,
Margie. I I'm off on your time frame, but you're here longer than me. Whiteser Liquors is more than 250 ft from Mohawk Avenue. If you want to spread out a little bit, there is nothing by the middle school except for all of the
traffic accidents. coming off of West Mountain Road. Same with the high school, there are no liquor stores within 250 ft of any of the Sparta schools. So, I'd really like to know why, if you want to go the um lawsuit discrimination route that Dan
brought up, why are the liquor stores being discriminated against? Why are the these proposed businesses allowed to do 250 ft when the liquor stores aren't? Does that mean that we can go ahead and do the liquor stores? My other question is maybe that the liquor stores are
allowed, they're just not there, right? So, maybe we go ahead and put them in there. But either way, when you drive from Andover past the towards Reverend Brown, there's a big white sign that says, "No drugs in a drug-free school zone." Don't you think it's a little bit
hypocritical that we now have an ordinance that says, "Hey, you can buy all of these drugs, all these mindaltering drugs within 250 ft of a school zone, but you're not allowed to possess them." I went to school here. I
remember the drug sniffing dogs being brought into the hallway of my high school my senior year and going right to a locker. So, it seems a little odd that that's enforcable and we can't have them in that distance, but we can go ahead and buy them. My other question is in
258 it says hours of operation. No retailer may serve customers or be open to customers for business before 9:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m. What are the hours for the liquor stores? Are they hel Are they allowed to open at 9:00 a.m.? Are the restaurants allowed to
serve alcohol before 9:00 a.m.? We kept hearing alcohol alcohol alcohol liquor stores. If in here under section S, it's part page six. It says 9:00 a.m. Why if we have to have all of these
dispensaries open and do all of this other stuff? Why can't the liquor stores be open at 9:00? If alcohol is a gateway drug and they can't do XYZ, let's have it equal so that the town doesn't get sued. nine o'clock for the liquor stores and the bars or we do this for when the
restaurants are registered to serve alcohol. Keep it equal. We don't want to get sued by Randy Burke, who I think may have been here longer than Margie, but I'm not sure. I can ask him. I drive by his house on the way home. I'll ask him what his thoughts are. We can go to
White Deer. We can go to liquor factory. Ask them how they feel about 9:00 a.m. Let's keep it equal. You guys don't want to get sued because the cannabis can't be within 1,000 ft. Like they they get their 250 ft. Alcohol can do 250 ft
and alcohol can be at 9:00 a.m. if they want to keep it equal. Good. Let's go through this page by page and Sundays and Sundays. Let's keep it Let's keep it all equal, guys. Yeah. Can't have it both ways. Would you allow dispensaries to sell at uh 1:30 a.m.
which are I'm in bed and I'm not buying it. So, and actually I don't know of any of the liquor stores that are open at uh 1:30 in the morning. We have what's called consumption lounges for alcohol. They're, you know, restaurants and bars and they're able to stay open till 2:00 a.m. and dispense that intoxicating
substance. So, I think that um you you'd have to grab ridiculous. Well, since I am not buying anything at 9:00 a.m. because I'm at work. So, why don't we But great. Let's keep it all equal. Let's do it for the bars, too. Yeah, we're out of time, but I I will I
will He doesn't live here, but anyway. I I I get people No, guys. Hang on. Come on. Come on. you're not part of the job. Um, let's just listen. Yeah, we need to get moving with this. I will point out um that I get people going to the worst
case scenario, which is oh, that means we're going to get an applicant that's going to definitely be within 250 ft. That's this has to go through an entire Lanny's application. And I think one of the factors that could be applied was where do you want to put this? And the
town council when they do their letter of support is more than likely going to put a factor on the scale that how far are they even though they're within the two you know legally they could be within 250 the the the business who is applying for it says we're actually 900 ft. That's going to be a factor that
this council can weigh in whether to give a letter of support for that application. So, it's not like everyone's going to come in and the first thing they're going to look for is how close can I get to that school because they know if they come do that, they're going to have a very difficult time before the planning board. Whereas
someone who says, you know what, I'm actually 950 ft away. 950 is very different than 250. The fact that it we give 250 doesn't mean you're going to get one that's going to be 250 ft. Okay, let's go back to Let's stick to I don't think Yeah, we're out of time.
It's already 1020. I kept getting interrupted. So, hang on. Yeah, I still didn't get an answer. Let's stick to the ordinance that we were discussing, okay? Which is 258 um hours of operation, I think you're going to have to revisit that because again, even if the liquor
factory, as pointed out by non-resident, um is 9:00 a.m., we still don't have the bars. You got to keep the alcohol. Um and we have to go from there. I really think again, you're rushing everything. And then if you go to security measures, I did my own little digging. There was a
very big issue with le legal dispensaries and not checking in security. There were a lot of buss and they found that a lot of them weren't actually doing what they were supposed to be doing. It was on I think it was from NBC maybe a month ago. And so I think that's
something you're going to have to factor in as well. Okay. And I still didn't get answers about the direct access with the plaza. And does Winona Parkway count as direct access? It would not. I mean, direct one. I
think the fear about it showing up in White Deer Plaza. You They would never get over the 250 ft from a residential property. There's residential properties all over uh White Lake Plaza, right? They're above the Lakehouse Cafe. So the idea that there would be a dispensary in
White Deer Plaza, you I don't see how that happens. 150 F feet is across the street at St. Yeah. So we're going to move on. If there's any additional person who wants to have a public comment, uh please do. Otherwise, uh we're going to move time
to take a break too soon. Yeah. Jenny Derek's tap into Sparta. Um, can you tell me what is the um consequences if Sparta does withdraw? What happens to the people that have already been appro approved? You
mentioned a moment ago that a license has to be renewed every year. Does that preclude someone from get does the fact that the township has possibly withdrawn say in five years and somebody is running a business and they have to come
back and get renewed. you're allowed to say no to them or maybe this is a a question for the attorney. Yeah, my my understanding is that th this ordinance would you know we can revisit it after 5 years but every
applicant um has to go through a yearly renewal process. So for example, if there is a dispensary that has been violating various, you know, our regulations, our ordinances, we simply say we're not renewing your license and we'd be well within our grounds to do
so. Now whether another come around their place, I don't know. The question is if the township has withdrawn from the program and now we have an operating business and that person hasn't violated any rules as were in existence when we
were when it was legal. It then becomes illegal because we've we've withdrawn. We've opted out. Does that store still get to stay open? Does that person get renewed if the new ordinances in town no longer reflect cannabis as being legal in Sparta? Does what happens to that
license? I mean, that's a very detailed legal question. Not really. It's pretty broad. Well, no. No. Well, here for example, um, you know, we have five years. And so, the way you would do it, you would probably time it with the actual. So, instead of guessing, can we ask the attorney?
Mr. Dash, do you have an opinion about that? So, I I think it presents a challenge. Um, if it was solely a land use ordinance, um, the use that's in place when it's lawfully there and not
and then we revoke this regulatory framework, that use becomes a pre-existing law uh, pre-existing non-conforming use. Okay. The challenge that we would face is that we then have the licensing aspects under 258.
Um, and we would have to reconcile the land use component, which is a pre-existing non-conforming use, and allow it to continue in perpetuity, with the licensing components. Um, I don't have the perfect answer. Okay.
Thank you. I appreciate the input. Um, so what happens then when we have we have two potential licenses, one is for anybody, one is for protected classes or whatever the correct nomenclature is for that. um what happens if there's more
than one applicant and this somebody goes to the state we've got three people now who want to come in who decides how does that discernment happen secondly if there are people that apply and get approved by the state and Sparta doesn't doesn't really want these folks in
Sparta can you say no once they have a license from the state because one of the conditions for one of the um marginalized uh characters uh marginalized groups of people is that
they have a um that they have a record a criminal record regarding cannabis whether it's active or expuned. Um would if we're if we're presented with does this township have a say in who gets you you've said in the past
Sparta gets to say yes or no to somebody, but is that true? If there's only one person for each license, do we get to say no? If there's more than one, then who decides who gets the license? As I understand it, the second
applicant, whether that applicant is a a drug felon, they they would get the they would get the nod over over a nonfelon. Someone from a protected class has worse. Correct. Okay. So, we're not talking about protected classes here,
right? So the second one goes to um it's uh women a womanowned business. That's women veterans and disabled people. But the words you're using are a little bit disparaging. We're saying a womanowned or a veteranowned or a disadvantaged business or no I'm talking about the
overall at the state level the application process does give difference if you'd rather them. So they might get accelerated at the state level doesn't mean that they're accelerated. But that's my question. if they've been accelerated at the state level for items such as a conviction. Um, do does Sparta
get the right to say no? It depends when they apply to Sparta. There's a whole process laid out about how they come into the town. They're the only people and we know that they've Well, if they're the only people and they're have a state license and they qualify and check all the boxes, then what right do we have to say no? That's my question. You're asking question.
Yep. Can we set our own parameters? Well, there will be a ton of other factors about whether we give approval. That's a more going to happen at sort of the planning board level or even when we do our letter of support, you know, you know, to to engage in these kind of hypotheticals that without the actual
full record before us. But I will say in the event there are multiple applicants, right? the statute or the ordinance deals with that. Uh under um E three uh there it is sorry 4 C um one and two
deal with the issue of where you get multiple people applying. Um, and I will commend I think this was, uh, Councilman Blumemedi's, uh, you know, input into this, uh, which will detail what factors we can consider where you have multiple applicants. Um, some of it has to do
with their experience, uh, in the industry. Um also their qualification related to public safety and security including any of the applicants owners or principles experience in law enforcement and drug enforcement and a summary of applicants plans for storage of products and currency disposal of
waste plans for oto control etc. So where we have multiple applicants, there is discretion there. Now I know you've raised the issue, what if there's only one, right? There's only one and they got through the state. Again, we have to remember they have a whole state vetting process before they come to us. You
can't come to us before you've gotten approval from the state. So we can't just someone says, "Well, I want to open a cannabis dispensary, but I don't have my license yet." Uh, and I'm one of these, a veteran or someone. I acknowledge that. That's why I was asking the question because there is difference for different types of people
with different backgrounds. Um that is recognized at the state level first. That's not one of the factors we consider in in multiple applications whether you're a member of that. We'll just call or a single so even if a single person comes in with a record you're and they but they have a they
have a they have a known record but they also have a license. get to come in. Well, if they if they can meet the requirements of putting a lot of strict requirements in here and they're here and they're not doing anything against the law, then I'm just asking for clarification. Yeah. I'm just saying
why, you know, if if they step over the line and we have lots of things in here to go after them, if they are abiding by it and sticking to the rules and everything's in line, then, you know, they'll be looked at. I don't know how we would I was just asking basically what are the qual what criteria because
this has bitten us before and other areas what criteria do you have to say yes or no to somebody and are you confident that you can get what you want here under these rules where that's not always been the case and and we've heard
before well let's wait till it comes to us doesn't always work out that way isn't it true that at the state level. If you have if the second applicant is a convicted felon uh drug felon, that person would get
deference if over let's say Dean Blumemedi who has a clean record, right? So that's that's the state application and I think the questions were good which in the sense that you know subsection K says each complete application will be considered by the
governing body at a publicly noticed meeting and then there will be a resolution approving or disapproving the complete license application. I think the question is well what are the standards that the governing body would use um separate and apart from the state to
decide whether to pass a resolution? So if we turn down the felon, would we get sued? I mean again I I know there's yeah I know there's a lot of you know a lot of questions surround whether we get sued or not but I don't know that's necessarily the question. Um
earlier in the evening. Everybody was so clear on it. That's why I just thought Yeah. Any other I'm sorry. Go ahead. Thanks. Thank you. Any other members of the public uh want to be heard on 258? Otherwise, we'll u move to a roll call
unless Councilman Scott, are we? Sorry. I think we have a Did you take a motion a second? There's no motion. I apologize. Um, I'd like to make a motion that we add uh in section uh on section on page three under
section C little two little 2 I that all applicants must be free of any misdemeanor misdemeanor or felonies with relationship to any drug, alcohol, marijuana or any other previously controlled or currently controlled
substance. Okay, we have a motion to amend uh section E. That would be four four 4 C two little I. So the motion before uh the C
is to amend uh E4C uh for as stated by Councilman Scott. So that's may I have we have a motion. We need a second. I'll second it. Okay. Uh, we have a roll call, please. Councilman Scott, yes.
Councilman Bli, no. Councilman Cherello, no. Deputy Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark, uh, no, because I think it would violate the state statute that does allow that to be in consideration. So, um, no. A motion to adopt. I make a motion to
adopt ordinance 258 as introduced. No, I I I I also have a I'd like to make another motion. You can make a motion after we've uh put it to the table both to the the dis and so there's a motion made on the table to adopt it. I need a second and then you can make your motion to amend it. I will second. Okay. Now
you can make your motion to amend it. I make a motion to amend on page eight. I'm sorry on page six under S, hours of operation. No cannabis retailer may serve customers or be open to customers
before 12 noon. Nor may any cannabis business serve customers or remain open for business after 900 p.m. And that cannabis will not be allowed to be sold on Sundays. Yeah, we have a motion u to amend. Uh I
guess it's probably S. Um do we have a second? Yes. I will second it. Okay. Councilman Scott. Yes. Councilman Blumemedi. No.
Councilman Cherello. No. Deputy Mayor Murphy. Yes. Mayor Clark. Uh for the reasons stated about the disperate treatment between alcohol and cannabis. Uh no. Okay. So, we have a motion on Oh, sorry. Did
you have something? We need a Well, I think we had a motion for the adopt. We needed a second. Second. Okay. So, now we're up to the adoption of 258. No, I have You have another motion. I have another motion. Okay. I want to on or maybe a clarification on the security
measures on T and number three. Um would the would the cameras and the link go directly to the police station? No. And can it can it be that's something that you could Can we put that
in there that it would go to the police station? Are you suggesting a live a live live feed? Yeah. This is what you guys were promising us earlier in the discussion over the past year. You were telling us about this live feed and how this is
going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Would that be possible, chief, or would that be up to them? Would that be possible? That's up to your governor body here. I would like to make a motion to have a live feed go right into the police
department. Second. Um, I second it for the uh reason of health, safety, and welfare of our public. Okay. We have a motion to uh amend
section T of the ordinance uh to require a a live feed uh into the uh police station of every for the applicant. Councilman Scott, yes. Councilman Betti, no. Councilman Cherello, no. Deputy
Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark. Uh, no, but I will say at the applicant stage, at the planning board, that should be something that should be considered uh in way in favor of an applicant who's willing to allow this. Well, it says it's agreed upon with chief of police,
the compliance, and any security measures. Voted. H, we already voted. Excuse me. We voted. Already voted. I'm sorry. I know, but I'm making a comment because we already Okay. The mayor made a comment. She's allowed
to make a comment. Okay. 258 has been adopted. We're now up to uh 259. Um No, I don't think we voted to adopt the ordinance yet. Oh, sorry. Sorry. All right. This it's a lot. Um
may I have a motion to adopt uh ordinance 259? Oh, wait. No, I still we have on the table already right a motion. So we've already motioned a second. We just need to make the roll call vote. Okay. Councilman Scott, no. Councilman Bli,
yes. Councilman Cherello, yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy, no. Mayor Clark, yes. 258 has been adopted. We're now a motion that we approve that we approve ordinance 259. Well, actually, you have to read it. You have to read it first into the
record. Sorry. Yes. Ordinance. Amending chapter 2 article 18 uh entitled taxation and revenue of the code of the township trust board at new section 2-62 setting forth a cannabis tax. I make a motion that we adopt ordinance
259 as introduced. I second. Well, I think we I don't want to bypass public comment. So, I think we'll we'll uh I'll let public comment go. Um they do have a right under each uh particular ordinance to do public comment. So
uh Rob Rob O um sorry I keep hammering this stuff 259. So for the taxation revenue obviously this is this is the whole point of this right ratables. So we're all clear on that. No that's not true. This is not about the
All right. I'm just fine. whatever it is. I don't want to eat up time defending I. So, um, guard rails, whatever, but the intent is to develop infrastructure so that people can safely obtain what they're already
obtaining in town and the town gets a little piece of the pie. Um, well, that that tax we're collecting, just to be clear, is for our our oversight of this, our inspections and regulations, right? It's not just I thought it was a a ratable. A positive ratable. Well, I
never said this. Just a break even. Not a break even. There's a reason. You guys said it was positive. We collect money to the I think we're interrupting. I'm just trying. No, no, I'm just trying to like move it along. So, no, I appreciate that, Mr. Mayor. Um, so I
just Yeah, I want to be clear about that because we all understand what it's for. It's It's meant to cover the costs. it's meant to um you know ensure that all the checks and balances are in place. But I just I'm sure you've thought about this,
but just in case you haven't um because I know some of you are kind of coming into this really hopeful. Um, if you drive up the the taxes too high, then you're going to obviously disincentivize a portion of your legal buyers who are
going to maybe be more comfortable going to their dealers that they've been going to for 30 years. They might trust that product more because we've seen some of these things, inversions, contamination, questionable state labs. Um, I don't have a solution here, but I
just want you guys to as you're framing this to be aware that it's great that you're collecting taxes and it's great that you're putting together stuff. My concern with all of this is I agree that you know you you need to be thinking about this and you need to
have something but I also think that you guys need to be addressing the illicit sales because I mean the other questions with this and this I'm not trying to go to 258 because we've already done that but when you get these people whoever
they may be that score these uh licenses to operate within Sparta I would question are those people that were previously involved in this the gifting thing. There's an argument for which is they know the lay of the lands. They're your best candidates for that. But there's an argument against which is
they've been abusing the system or maybe the system is established. Um and so you don't want that. But in either scenario, you're going to have people no matter what, the market is going to have an underground that is going to need to make up margin that was that is now
taken up by the the people that are operating out in the open. It's also going to be uh selling to the people that do not want to pay whatever additional taxes you've put on this because they don't think it's worth it. Um, so again, my
concern is that when you're doing all this stuff, be looking at that underground stuff because that is going to change. And um I don't know. I mean, it's tricky because you're going to
collect taxes as as Dan's saying um to cover all the costs of the above board businesses, but where is the money going to come for the businesses that are not being regulated? So, I'm not saying that it's all going to fail, but and I'm not
saying that we don't need something in place. Um, but I wish that you guys would have addressed the sales previously. Um, and uh, yeah, I don't I don't think
anyone's worried that little Jimmy six-year-old's going into a dispensary. That's never going to happen. That's not the point. It's just like so many of these things where what h what are the off-site effects? Well, we can't regulate that obvious. I get it. Like
and then to the oh, it's sugar, it's alcohol, whatever. Yeah, that's up to the households to regulate that. Um, so I don't know you guys. I'm not saying you've opened up Pandora's box, but I just hope that you give it a
little bit more thought. Consult the experts. Um, and and really do consider that thousand foot. I mean, I heard the I don't even understand how this letter of referral from town council is going to go as far as if if I wanted to open
up a shop and I was at 250 ft, I'd say, why does this person 990 ft? Why does he get preference over me? you know, I'm coming in according to the way it's written. But if you had put it at a thousand, it would be conditioned. And then you could dial it back down and get
closer and just say, "We've conditioned it. It calls for a thousand." But all right. Thank you, Rob. Excellent segment. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, that's a that's a valid point. Would you say while you're here? Yeah, sure. I'm
interested and I want to give Sparta my tax dollars because I want to buy closer to town. I want to buy closer to my home. We we don't question also. Yeah, that's not for you. It's kind of inappropriate. I appreciate it, but I have no problem asking. What I would recommend that they
focus on the substance of someone's argument and not the ad homonym attacks about where they come from me is used to it. But if that's what you're resorting to as an effective argument, you've already lost. So, I think you should focus on the substance of the argument
and not disparage where someone comes from. Whoever applause that. Thank you. No, you're fine. Sorry. Um, so we'll start with chair chair of the planning board uh Joan Furman's question regarding uh the the CBD. The CBD as per
uh September 12, 2024 per Governor Murphy's signature after it made its way through legislation makes it illegal for anything with any trace amount regardless of the amount, any percentage of THC to be sold anywhere outside of a dispensary. So CBD as per this law would be considered not able to be sold at a
gas station like it currently is, at a smoke shop like it currently is, or any other place other than a regulated, licensed and approved dispensary. So with that being said, this law, however, caveat, this law is currently being adjudicated. It's currently in court and
they're currently fighting over it whether or not because a bunch of people got together, paid lobbyists and attorneys, and they decided to sue. Guess who those people were? the gifters who have been making all this money off of the illicit revenue stream that was created by the first gifting law. So
this is for the tax ordinance. I'm getting to the taxes right now. So I'll answer that in a minute. So gifters, pardon me. I know this is live stream, right? So um important point, you're going to want need to know that as the planning board chair. Um, once that law is finalized, then you'll have the
definition automatically updated in the New Jersey legislation in regards to the CRC and the definition of cannabis. Number two, the felon question. The felon question only comes into play with the CRC. After the CRC gives out a license, the town, the
council, everyone up there is the sole final firewall, if you want to call that, of who gets a license. So, if I walk into this town hall with all of my money and all of my stuff and I say, "I want to be a licensed cannabis uh retail person and I'm guilty of a felony of a
million other things or any one of them that isn't related to cannabis, then that is not the same prerequisite. The prerequisite is for people who were affected by the war on drugs. People who were affected and given felonies based on the war on drugs. So, people who are
arrested for marijuana related crimes. No, no, no. I'm talking to them. I'm talking to the council. No, I'm looking to everybody. I hate having my back to a crowd. But anyway, so the township council has essentially the final call. The final call comes from you guys. So if you guys don't want to give somebody a license cuz you don't like to color their shirt, so you refuse to give them
the the vote of resolution of support. That's your call. What happens after that in the courts? Different story. But you guys have the final call. Then it goes to the planning board and then the planning board also gets a crack at it. So essentially those are the two very important parts that I wanted to clarify. I also wanted to say that
you're on the planning board, too, Mr. O. He's a smart guy. He knows what he's talking about. So, you know, he brought up a really good point about opening the Pandora's box and how are we going to regulate and take care of the underground market if we can't take care of the above ground market? Valid point. The only way you're going to be able to do that is by passing regulation to
actually put in place, like I've said all night, actual actual uh consequence for their actions. Currently, there are none. And the new law, the hemp law, the NJ hemp bill, whatever its legal name in the legislature is, automatically takes care of all of that, which you guys as the
council will be required to follow. You cannot be decide that you don't want to take care of one part of the hemp bill or the NJ cannabis regulatory commission's rules simply because you don't like it. You must. So the minute that changes and that definition becomes legal after the judge and the sup New
Jersey Supreme Court or whatever decides that they're going to go ahead and follow the governor and the legislaturator's decision, which is going to happen in my opinion, no expert legally, then you're going to end up having an automatic definition change. So at the end of the day, you know, the
question of how do we take care of the stuff we can't regulate? He's 100% right. We can't do that. But what we can do is we can put rules into place making it com literally making the drug dealers drug dealers again, for lack of a better phrase, because right now they're gifts and they're making a lot of money. The
only way you're going to be able to make them drug dealers again is by putting regulation and essentially making it difficult for them to do anything other than follow the laws. And the minute they don't, that's between him and the courts. Thank you. Well, then maybe we should just make it for medical purposes
only. seconds. No, totally totally separate thing. Very difficult to get into and uh the township I think I no expert. I think the township has to get involved with liability somehow. How close do you live to Florida? I'm in Wanich, but I've
been looking on the white. You can stay. Joanne Scaly, Florida. I have a question for you, mayor. Um, in the past you stated that there would be live streamed and that the police could be watching and if someone, this is your words, comes in
with a Sparta football um, jacket on that the police could be right down there. Now, why did you flip-flop when you were all four live stream? Why' you flip-flop and vote no um to Mr. um that that's that's still something that we
can allow that we can require of an applicant. It doesn't have to be in in in the ordinance, we can still require it and get preference ordinance to make it stronger and that has been done in my understanding there are feeds in other dispensaries and so although it doesn't make it make its way in the ordinance
it's not it's something that we can when the application becomes before it and so it was more of the application if you didn't if you said no now it will never get in there let's be honest and um another question I heard someone mention about delivery is this going to be
allowed to have deliveries in Sparta. It's a that's a that's a class six license. So that this is only allows retail, but there is delivery in here legal today regardless of what we do. Why? Now, is there going to be a guard with that delivery driver or someone be
able to mug that delivery driver? Um how is it going to be regulated? Um if a kid's there is 18 and he has someone else's 21-year-old license, what happens? That happens to I mean the business is not a delivery business but deliveries are allowed to residents anywhere in New Jersey and
that's scary with cannabis scary cannabis they can get robbed pizza guys get robbed already have pizza guys get robbed all the time so you know that cannabis drivers are going to get robbed unless they driving a um armored truck with a police escort
or armed guard this is silly this is very silly that this is that's a state already. I know the state law. So why are we allowing this? This is why this is not addressing delivery businesses. This is only retail and retail delivery.
If you're a standalone delivery business, that's not what this is. But are are they going to be allowed? Is it in the law that they can deliver? That's my question. Yeah. So yeah. And then the answer is yes. That is crazy. Anyone it happens all the time that delivery drivers get robbed. So they get robbed
and then kids get a hold of it. They bring it to a party with all these gummies and then we have a dead child in our hands. Shame on you guys. Well, I do want to point out what you asked was, "Are we allowing a delivery license?" No, we're not. That's No, I'm asking you allowed to deliver this. Can you please
let me finish and I can explain to you. So, there's an ordinance in Sparta that they passed 2110 and this this was after uh the legalization and they prohibited cannabis, but there's a carveout and
I'll read that to you. And the carveout deals with that says it's it's it's uh paragraph two prohibited uses of the Sparta Township Municipal Code is hereby amended by adding to the list of prohibited uses all classes of cannabis establishments or cannabis distributors
or cannabis delivery services as terms are defined in the in the law but not the delivery of cannabis items and related supplies by a delivery service. So what that means is there was already in Sparta delivery of cannabis coming
into Sparta that that's that's happening and that wasn't even prohibited by this by by the or what this what we are not allowing the actual distributor to do the distribution because that would be a separate class six license. That's not that's not something that's before us.
But there is delivery already happening and it's happening uh because back in uh for this ordinance 21 uh 10 allowed it. So there's already delivery happening. Okay. Then how about underneath uh under 23
uh 1A it says retail number retail businesses and cannabis delivery service licenses. There should be a maximum of two total cannabis retailers within sport township. So, it's right here in your ordinance. Cannabis delivery service license. I think that is
horrendous. It's terrible. And if it's New Jersey law, um, you can't go against that. If you want to have licenses, this is wrong. Delivery drivers are robbed every single day around New Jersey. So, it's going to pick up. If they have
delivery drivers um going anywhere, it could be robbed. And then it could end up in a teenage party. And then will you be responsible for overdose or a death of a young child? This is crazy. You should rewrite that. Take
that out. This is wrong. It is. I have no words for that. It's so horrendous. Thank you. Thank you. Uh 259, right? Tax tax rate ordinance. Uh, I'm okay with you guys raising uh
tax money on this. Uh, I'm not okay with you raising money um on the waters. Uh, the township, the the residents are quiet. They they're unaware that uh you just pass an
ordinance where every quarter there's a $20 capital improvement. That's $80 for the year for water um for water customers. There's about 6,600 customers in Sparta that are water customers. So
you're raising about $520,000 there, a little bit over half a million. So you pass that ordinance, raise taxes. Then the other ordinance, you pass the garbage ordinance, you raise to $115. So, you know, again, when I was talking to you about that uh petition that we
did back then, we said like, oh, garbage was 240 and we said it's going to double. So, from 240 $60, it went to 30075. Then it went to ordinance 258, not the garbage. No, 259. 259. Yeah, I'm talking about taxes and raising. Well,
those aren't taxes. Those are utility fees. Right. Right. So, you're passing It's not 259. Right. You're passing you're passing in your utilities ways of raising money. And in the water utility, you increased it by
$80 a year, $20 each quarter for capital improvement. And on the garbage, again, another utility, you raised it $15 a quarter, another $60 a year for $7,000 line items. So there's another 400,000. And I'm upset also that you I'm not okay
with you raising the cap from 2% to 3 and a.5%. So you're you're raising a lot of money and I know where the money is going too. Uh but you're raising you know so I'm I'm very happy that you're
raising taxes on this ordinance but I I would try I'm not happy that you're raising money on utility the water utility and the garbage. So now it actually it's at 460 a year and if you're late it's a 10% lay fee too. So
we basically doubled uh the garbage fee from 240 to 460 in 17 years. Um and there's a reason why the state gave uh the cap of 2%. And I I again I saw you on YouTube and it's like ah this is
just if we need the money. How can you you know I'm going to do to you what judges do to me all the time. Well you going to interrupt me. No, I'm going to tell you to tie it to the ordinance. So, it's Oh, no. So, I'm tying it to you. Listen, your your friend over there listen your friend your friend over there your friend over there was talking
about 258 and it was nothing about taxes. He didn't mention the word tax at all. So, at least I'm talking about taxes. Are you talking about me? No, I'm talking about him. See, he he knows he knows who he is. So, those are my three comments
regarding ordinances or utilities that you're raising more money and where is this money going. Thank you. That wasn't a question. Okay. Thank you. Right. Any other member of
the public on 259? Okay. Seeing none, uh may I have uh a motion to adopt 259? I have a We've already made a motion and seconded it. Oh, you did? Okay. I'm sorry. That happened early on.
I think we're up to a roll call vote unless there's discussion. No discussion question. Yeah. I'd like to make a motion to amend. Okay. Under G, suspension, revocation of license
under Oh, under A such a cash generating be so flush in cash and operators cash. Why wouldn't we suspend their license? Why wouldn't we revoke
them if they haven't paid in 10 days? Why would we wait till 60 days? And why? Okay. So, I'm I'm saying in the third Ga in the third line
instead of the word suspended, I would say revoked. And then you don't need B. So this this calls into qu what do we do about how do we treat other businesses that don't pay their taxes within a certain do we revoke their license after
10 days this no I I wouldn't no yeah so those are retail or but this is conditionals again you know but they're paying the state they're not paying us they're paying us as well
retail establishments in this town are paying paying us. I'm sorry. I thought you meant this. These businesses, retail art is not paying us. Yeah. The these businesses will pay us 2%. Yeah. And if they don't pay in 10 days, they should be revoked. I think that's harsh.
10 days to revoke it. If they're making so much money as they're bragging they are. I don't not qualifying how much they're making and I'm not qualifying that we're going to make a lot on this either. That was not my reason for supporting this at all. So, what
in Bridgewater. Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, again, I I think that treating, you know, cannabis retail differently than other ones simply because they, you know, one, they're going to have to do a fair amount of accounting under this. So, that the fact that they don't meet the 10day is not a function of, oh, we don't have any
money, we can't make the payment. It's a factor of wow, you put all these requirements about accounting and everything else and if I don't have my books right, these guys can come in and audit me and check my books. I think that that's why um we we need to have, you know, some degree of of of leniency
here uh to reconcile the books. And I think that they do if it's suspended after 60 days and two times they uh in in a calendar year, you can revoke them. So with my I withdraw my motion. I withdraw my motion. Thank you. I um I
have a question. If if we can go in and audit their books, but they're not and but I mean they're going to have to keep detailed because they cannot bank with a normal bank. They have to bank with a credit union, right? They have to bank with a credit
union. They normal banks will not take it. Um, they have to deal with bank with a nonfederal bank. Non federal bank, right? And it says, if I'm not mistaken, it says in
here that we can de we can manager wants payment 10 days late. We can go in and audit their books. Correct. Yes, it does. There is an auditing provision in here. And who would pay for that? Well, that's part of, you know, that we
have, you know, whoever we have, we could, you know, establish someone, their finance department could do it, you know. Well, but that's we're actually raising the revenue so we could pay someone. So, it's almost like the utility view. Then we could put an additional monies on them for them to
pay for it, right? Because we're only raising $47,000 a year. Remember that. Have you have any other questions? No. Okay. Call Councilman Scott.
Yes. This is We're voting on the on the order. We're voting to vote pass this to to tax. Yes. To tax. Yes. Okay. So, your vote is yes. Well, if I vote no, then I'm saying don't tax it. Okay. So, I'm
voting to tax it. Councilman Bli, you threw me off too, Mark. Just had to rethink this. Yes. Councilman Sherello. Yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy. Begrudgingly, yes. Mayor Clark. Uh, yes.
259. It's adopted. Um, so before we move on, I think we've been at it for quite some time. Probably folks um need a break. So um I'm just going to recess for 5 minutes and then we'll come
back because we still have resolutions to get through liaison updates and unfinished new business and our Okay. Okay. Again, is any member of the public wishing to be heard on the resolutions?
Public comment on the resolutions? Uh, seeing none. So, may I have a motion to approve resolutions 91, 92, and 93? I'll make a motion to approve resolution 91, 92, and 93. Second. All those in
favor say I. I. I. And uh resolution 94. Um there's still some ongoing uh analysis being done. So, I'm going to move uh may I have a motion to table resolution 94? I move that we table resolution 9-4. Uh,
may I have a second, please? Second. All those in favor say I. I. I. All right. The motion to table 94. Any opposing has been approved. Uh, now up to resolution 95. May I have a a motion to approve resolution 95,
which is a resolution to accept a sanitary sewer easement regarding property identified as block 2706, lot 20 on the Sparta Township tax map. Could you explain what this is about? Yeah, let's we will. I just want to get
to a motion and then a second and then before we take the vote, I'll have Mr. Zep tell us what this is about. So, I just need a motion and then a second. I make a motion to approve 9-5. Uh, may I have a second,
please? I will second the motion. Mr. Zep, tell us all about resolution 95 and why we need it and why we're This easement is related to a sewer pump station that was newly installed uh in the culde-sac of Celia Drive right down
Main Street here. Uh, Celia Drive originally had a gravity feed uh uh storm drain that went to the main line on Station Road. As you know, uh, the flood uh, several years ago exposed that pipe. Um, and um, the engineers looked
at the elevation possibilities and we couldn't make it work to lower it. So, we ended up having to opt for the pump station. And um the pump station being an afterthought was located right where the pipe is on this lot, but it didn't
have an access easement. So now that the pump stations installed, we need an easement so the uh utility could do its maintenance and its monitoring of the pump house. So that's what this easement is. Who paid for the pump station?
Pound it. Because Greg Leo's long gone, right? Oh yeah. So the town he was the developer. Yes. You should have paid for it. Well, you had a gravity-fed line that was working fine and then the flood that came down the wall exposed it. So, the
flood that came down through the Glenn. Yes. That was 2000. Uh, the second one, not that not the early one. Oh, he was gone. He was Okay. Yeah. There's a long history behind this. Okay. A lot of history. And it's 11. It's It's late to
get into that long history. Yeah. Any other questions or comments with respect to 95? I said it's late to get into that long history about this long history before us. Okay. All right. Um the p I'm sorry the public comment period has passed and I think you did have an
opportunity to to read the resolution. Um does anyone need any more information before they can Okay. Um so we have a first and second. All those in favor of resolution 95 I I resolution 95 uh has
passed. Um also again similar to 94 there's some additional analysis uh needed. So I will make a motion uh to table resolution 96 which is the introduction of municipal budget. So I need uh that's the motion. I need a
second. I'll make the motion to table resolution 9-6. Uh, may I have a second? I'll second. All those in favor say I. I. I. Um, I am going to would like to make a motion that we table council leaison updates. Uh, uh, and we will
address those at our next meeting given the late hour. So, my motion is to table uh, council leaison updates. May I have a second? A second. All those in favor say I. I. I. All right. Council leaison
updates. um table second Jim you did mention uh Earth Day the third I did in my opening remarks right is just one question Roxan with respect to the announcement of the senior of the year could we put that off because since
we're not going to the proclamation till later the meeting is going to be on the 13th our meeting and the senior of the year will be announced will be given on 14 so we have to do it Sudan I mean you can mention it tonight I Okay. You can mention it, but Sure. All right. Because
I was going to do an also a motion to do unfinished new business, but I will limit it uh to um the announcement of the senior of the year and also an appointment. So, I'll go first. Um very proud to announce that the senior of the
year will be uh Michael Zingaro. Um, I had the opportunity to read uh his background and what a level of service uh that he has uh both with the Quantis Club um with uh I think he got the gallon club for donating almost a gallon
of blood. Um so this is a gentleman who's done a tremendous amount of service uh for the township and he was brought to our attention I believe by our someone in our rec committee. Is that right? Senior advisor. Senior advisory committee. So um very uh you
know welldeserved honor uh for Mr. Zangaro. So again and then I think at a later date we will have a proclamation for him. They wanted it after he gets the award. Okay. And we'll give it to him after he gets the award. But I at least wanted to make that announcement. Uh the sex second is may I have a motion
to appoint Renee Sutherton to the senior advisory committee? So move. May I have a second, please? I'll second. All those in favor say I. I. I. And um I would then we can move on to the
public comment period. Uh the final one. So any member of the public wishing to be heard uh on any topic. Doesn't have to be on the agenda. But you still got five minutes. So if you interrupt me, I'm going to double
down. So back to the minutes. Um, Jennifer Derek was correct that you are violating OPMA and you're violating the my order, my court order. Um, I also recommend that rather than
uh Roxan or the deputy clerk um listen to what people are saying and they have to summarize it, you should go to verbatim. You should go to verbatim minutes. Mount Olive Township has been doing it for 20 years. It's less work on
the clerk and the deputy clerk. And that way she doesn't have to think how many points did Jesse say and what what are what are the most important points to put in the minutes. It's just verbatim. And nowadays you have software that it just goes automatic verbatim instead of
trying to summarize who said what. So that's my um continuation of my uh point number four to the minutes. Um regarding executive session minutes, um you guys are not naming who's over there. You
need to put every person that's executive session, you need you need to name who's there. And then when you go out of executive session, aren't you taking a vote? Who who's who's making a motion one and who's seconding to to leave executive session? that needs to
be recorded in the executive session minutes. So again, I have a court order of how you're supposed to do your executive session minutes. Uh this week or so, I'll give Roxet a copy of it and um you can start following it. Uh now we
get to the good stuff. Uh you know, mega warehouse. Um you know, who brought the ordinance in? Was it the planning board? Was it a council member? Was it the manager? I don't know if you know that
Bill Close was was the township manager at the time and his living girlfriend was uh Betty Betty Lou the Croach and the Long Stoman Association
donated to Betty Lou's uh running $7,000 a little bit prior to the ordinance being introduced and a lot more after the ordinance was introduced.
I I don't know if this means something. The rumors are that there were certain council people that belong somehow or had a connection with the international uh long shoreman association and you always have to
follow the money trail. So I'm saying it's it's in ELAC. Yes. Um you can look it up. um April 16, 2021, October 30th, 2020. So there was like at least
$7,000 donated from the Long Shoreman Association to Betty Lou. You can check four years prior. Was there any kind of donations? I I didn't do that kind of research, but if if it was just for that
time to me, that's that rings a little bell. And then we have Bill Close. He didn't retire. He left. Well, on March March 31st, you know, two two the ordinance was passed on February 23rd of
2021 and he left March 31st of 2021. You know, uh what is that 5 weeks later? Coincidence? I don't know. Um so that's regarding the um the mega warehouse.
I would recommend, you know, you have this federal lawsuit. You bring this conspiracy. You know, I have the federal lawsuit here. I'm going to give a copy to Roxet. I I think you you should put it online. You should put it online so
everybody can read it. There's a lot of conspiracy theory here. A lot of Swiss cheese over here. Jennifer Derek is mentioned like six times here. Uh I mean, they got to serve everybody before you guys answer. Um, so that's going to take a little bit
of time because this was filed on March 24th. So what they have usually 35 days, it's going to take them a little bit longer to serve everybody. Um, I recommend the referendum. Let the people of Sparta
vote whether they want the mega warehouse or not. So when you go to a federal court, you have this conspiracy about this International Long Sherman Association connection with the manager uh Betsyl donations. You have a um a
referendum and hopefully uh the vote is against it and then you guys do whatever you want to do on your side. So you you come with three three punches basically. Um, he doesn't know that I'm recommending him, but if you need a good
federal lawyer, it's Dan Perez out of Newton. He's very cheap. I mean, his older rates were 175, maybe it's 200, 225. He just does federal. So, you need a federal lawyer. That's who you want. You want Dan Perez out of Newton. He he
he he did a lot of activism, um, legal work for New York activists. He always was defending. Uh he lives in Frankfurt. His time is up now and it's 11:30. Yeah, I'm very serious. But Jesse, you've given us a lot of information tonight and a lot of been
very helpful and I thank you. Please don't think that you know the five minutes is not because of the value of what you send us an email tonight. It's No, I can't do that. It's 11:25 and we've been here a long time. So given us a lot of good information. No, we it got
Jesse. I got Thank you. Uh, I'm going to jump to I'm going to jump to Sparta Mountain. I'm sorry. No, we're not going to jump to Sparta Mountain. I'm just going to It's 11:25. It will be two minutes. We have We have employees here that need to get to bed. Who? We have lots of employees here that need to get to bed. I'm going to be respectful of
the people that work here. You can talk to Councilman Scott. I didn't see I didn't see even the clock go down. That's a good idea. I'm sorry. So, Councilman, you can relay what you want to say to Councilman Scott. Councilman Scott will relay it to us.
Why would I do that? Why would I? I'm conveying it to the people of Sparta. I'm conveying this to you, but not on our time to know this. No, I'm not I'm not going to be the five minute limit. No, no, you're very hostile. I'm sorry. You're very rude. It's it's 5 minutes is up and it's time for give somebody else
a chance. You gave other people more than even today you gave people more than five. We did not interrupt you for the five minutes. But you you gave somebody 13 minutes. I had on my clock. Sure. Go ahead. I'll make a motion to adjourn. Just give yourselves a raise if you can't put in the time. I make a motion
that we adjourn. I'll second. All those in favor say I. I. I. No. We have Please put this on your journey. Four eyes and one. Thank you. That's