on the following items. At the special town council meeting on Thursday, November 13th, 2025 in council chambers, Sparta Township Municipal Building, 65 Main Street, Sparta, New Jersey. Adequate notice of this meeting was
provided to the public and press on October 31st, 2025 by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice. Uh, all council meetings are now livereamed and can be viewed at the following link.
www.youtube.comspartwpstreams. We had a executive session was opened at 6 and now has now been closed. Um, and madame clerk, may I have a roll call? >> Councilman Scott >> here. >> Councilman Blamemedi >> here.
>> Deputy Mayor Murphy here. Mayor Clark >> here. And here's where I always get confused. Do I need to read the resolution again? Okay, good. Thank you. All right, let's salute the flag, but uh before we do so, let's have a moment of silence. Uh
Sparta lost a very valuable member and William Pop Asen uh this week. He's such a very valuable member of our community. Um he will be sorely missed by all of us. Uh most of all his family. Just a moment of silence for uh William. See asking.
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Um,
first order of business, uh, are minutes. Uh, some of these minutes are for 2024. Um, so that means that, uh, Councilman, uh, Scott and Deputy Mayor Mer, uh, Murphy should abstain from those as they
were not on council at the time. Um, so first, uh, may I have a motion to approve the August 27th, 2024 executive meeting minutes as presented? >> So moved. >> May I have a second, please? I will second it. Uh, all in favor?
>> I >> I. And so we have two eyes and two abstensions for the executive meeting minutes dated August 27th, 2024. Uh, next up is another uh, 2024. Uh, may
I have a motion to approve the September 10th, 2024 executive meeting minutes as presented? >> So moved. >> And I will second them. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. So we have two eyes, two abstensions
for the September 10th, 2024 executive meeting minutes. Uh, and we have yet another uh 2024 executive session uh minutes. Uh, may I have a motion to approve the October 8th, 2024 executive meeting minutes as presented?
>> So moved. >> Uh, and I will second it. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Uh, we have two eyes and two abstensions for the October 8th, 2024 executive session meeting minutes. Um,
another 2024. Uh, may I have a motion to approve the November 26, 2024 executive meeting minutes as presented? >> So moved. Um and I will second them. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Um I uh so we have two eyes and two
abstensions for the November 26, 2024 executive session meeting minutes. And now we are finally up to 2025 and these are regular meetings. So these you guys can vote on these. Um may I have a motion to approve the September 9th,
2025 regular meeting minutes as presented? >> So moved. May I have a second, please? >> I'll second. >> All those in. Okay. >> So, um I'd like to make a motion with to have two edits to this. Um
>> they are under unfinished new business on page 13. And this was um some comments I was sharing around the u the planning board and professionals and billing strategy and design standards. um just to match
what was stated during the meeting. Uh the first one is in sentence one, there's only two sentences. Sentence one um in between the words concerning and professional staff to please add the words the billing
strategy and practices of. So therefore the sentence one that component would be a lot of discussions on the planning board concerning the billing strategy and practices of professional staff dot dot dot.
Um the second one is in sentence two. Uh there's two elements. One is instead of the word sign it should be design d s i g n. And then the rest of the sentence
should read um standards common which should be part of the master plan subcommittee work. So altogether sentence two would then read he stated that too much focus was being placed on design standards which should be part of the master plan subcommittee
work. And I have the um live stream notations of where these occurred to in case someone wanted to go back and look. >> Okay. Um so I think that the the procedure would be to make a motion to amend the September 9th, 2025 as read by
Councilman Blumatti. So I'll make a motion to amend the September 9th, 2025 regular meeting minutes um as read by Councilman Blummedi. I'll second. >> All right. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I.
>> I. >> We have um I didn't hear Councilman Scott >> said I. >> Oh, okay. Great. Um so the um minutes have been amended. So now we have to May I have a motion to approve the September
9th, 2025 regular meeting minutes as amended uh by Councilman Blumeetti? >> So moved. >> May I have a second, please? >> I'll second. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> So, the September 9th, 2025 regular meeting minutes as amended uh by
Councilman Blummeti's statements um have uh passed. Right. Oh, we have order kind of September 23rd as well. Okay. Uh, may I have a motion to approve the September 23rd, 2025
regular meeting minutes as presented? >> So moved. >> Uh, may I have a second, please? >> Second. >> Um, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. The, uh, minutes dated September 23rd, 2025 have been approved.
And that does it for all the minutes. We are now up to the manager's report. Uh, manager Zep, may I have the manager's report? >> Absolutely. >> Good evening, Mayor, council members, Sparta residents. Whether you're here in
person or joining us online, as autumn settles in, our parks and recreation teams have been busy with fall cleanups of preparing our facilities for winter. Recreation programs continue to be popular, and we're looking forward to winter session with registration for residents opening
on December 10th. If you're feeling festive, don't forget to sign up for our holiday home decorating contest by December 5th. And mark your calendars. Santa will be visiting Station Park on December 6th, arriving by firet truck at 1 p.m. Families can enjoy live
entertainment, treats, and free digital photos with Santa while supporting the Sparta Community Food Pantry with donations. For our seniors, the last fall book swap will take place at the senior center on December 10th, and the annual holiday party is scheduled for December 30th
from noon to 2:30. Registration is required, so please reserve your spot early. As a Sparta Public Library, we recently hosted a successful coffee with a cop event, strengthening ties between our community and local police. Despite some
staffing and book supplier challenges, the library team is working hard to keep shelves stocked and programs running. October saw strong attendance in circulation and our digital services continue to reach thousands of residents. Turning to our construction, our building department has issued over
1,800 permits and completed 5,383 inspections so far this year. Activity remains steady and we're pleased to report that new desks and computers have been installed, making it easier for staff to serve you. Special thanks to Joe and Dave for their excellent tech
support. Our public works crews have been busy cleaning up after recent storms and have started installing holiday banners on our street lamposts. Leaf bag pickup is ongoing, so please check the town website for details. The water department has wrapped up hydrant
flushing of the Highlands, Sunset Lake, and Lake Mohawk water systems. Great appreciation and acknowledgement goes out to our misable clerk's office who successfully oversaw a very busy election with heavy voter turnouts. Roxanne and her staff kept things
running smoothly. Thank you Roxanne, Tyianne, and Britney. On behalf of the clerk's office, we also would like to recognize Brendan Feldman, Matt Molinaro, Joe Scalia, and Gene Donley for their outstanding support during the recent general election. Brendan in particular went above and
beyond to ensure voter ran smoothly, voting ran smoothly despite power issues, demonstrating exceptional dedication. Thanks to their efforts, we were able to provide a secure voting experience for our community. Finally, I want to thank everyone for
your patience during ongoing sidewalk repair work along Main Street and also the gas main work being completed by Elizabeth Town Gas on Glenn Road. We've expanded the sidewalk project along Main Street to address unsafe sidewalks and driveway ramps which have lengthened the
construction time, but work is coming to an end and is expected to be wrapped up by the holiday break. The night work related to the gas main work along Glenn Road is scheduled to be completed by the end of next week. Both of these projects have caused inconvenience and delays.
Good progress is being made on both. This concludes my report. I will now turn it over to Chief McCarrick. Thank you, Manager Zep. Thank you, Mayor Council. Starting this weekend through the end of the year, there will be extra patrols to enforce intoxicated driving.
While the holiday season is upon us, the police department would like to remind everybody to enjoy your holidays responsible by having a silver driver. The overtime for the extra patrols is funded through the drunk driving enforcement funds, which is awarded by the state. just to compare some recent
statistics from the police department on DWI arrests. Uh I took years 22, 23, 24, and 25 from January 1st to November 12th. For 2022, there were 58 DWI arrests. For 2023, there were 38 DWI
arrests. 2024, there were 43 DWI arrests. And for 2025, 31 DWI arrests. A reminder, the annual crows crows turkey trot on Thanksgiving morning. Please expect delays in the area in the plaza. The plaza is expected to be closed at
approximately 6:30 a.m. and will be reopened once our officers feel it is safe to do so. And it's usually around 11:30. As the emergency operations coord coordinator, myself and deputy coordinator Thomas McIntyre have been updating the township's emergency
operation plan. This requires working with many of the department heads amongst the township to ensure our plan is up to date with the required information. Our plan has been submitted to the county emergency operations who will submit this to the state and should be good for two years. I would like to
thank all of our professionals in the township who assisted with the planning and a special thank you to my deputy coordinator Thomas McIntyre for his efforts in the planning. On Sunday, November 23rd from 10 to 3 at the Stop and Shop, our officers will be hosting their annual Cram the Cruiser
event uh to help support our our local uh county food pantry. So, we encourage everybody to come out and donate as you can. Um it's always a good event. Uh last thing, as Manager Zep mentioned, the traffic in front of Main Street. Um I'd like to send a real sincere thank you to my officers that are out there.
Um, we have officers working, some of them 7 days a week. Um, assisting with the traffic on Main Street during the day, Glenn Road at night. Um, there's a lot going on. They're doing their best to get everybody in and out uh through Main Street, in and out of the
businesses and um they just want to keep it safe for everybody and uh appreciate what they're doing because the weather's not great out there. They are cold, but uh they're doing a great job. And that concludes my report. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you both. And uh I'd
like to thank you, Chief, for collecting for the food pantry, the Sparta Community Food Pantry for Hanging with the Heroes. We really, really appreciated it. >> Absolutely. >> All right. May I have a motion to accept the manager's report? >> So moved. >> May I have a second, please?
>> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> The manager's report has been approved. Um we're now up to our open to the public session. Um, I I did forget to say I want to welcome uh Councilman-ele uh Mr. Sylvester. Congratulations. Uh we
look forward to working with you. Um it's folks know we have to wait till the election is actually certified to get appointed. That hasn't happened yet. Um but congratulations to you and and I I thought you and and uh former council ran a very good campaign. Um and so
you'll be both of you to be to be commended on that much. Okay, we're at up to our first um public comment section and this is limited to items that are not on the agenda. So, if you look on the agenda and you see
something you want to talk about, now's not the time. Um, so I know we have folks here because we have two hearings on ordinances, there will be an opportunity during the hearing for the ordinance to comment on the ordinance. Um, if you're here to talk about resolutions, that's also has to wait uh
to the second comment period. Uh so again this is for items that are not on the agenda. So if you would please come forward uh and state your name and please be mindful of the five minute limit. >> Hi Jenny Derek Stefen Despart. I just
have two questions. I normally would wait to the end but who knows how long this is going to go. Um first of all the question that was on the ballot the cannabis question. voters decisively by an almost 2 to1 margin said no to retail
cannabis in Sparta. Do you plan to uphold the will of the the the voters? >> Well, I think that is a we are looking at that issue uh in light of that. I think uh you know just speaking for myself um I think I said that that would
be a factor going into future things. there is a lot of legal issues with respect to that um that are ongoing investigation into those legal issues. Um so at this time it can't give you a definitive answer and my answer for at least for me remains the same which is
that is a factor going into the analysis for sure. >> Can you just I'll go to the next well can you just say what some of those legal issues are? Uh I I I would I would advise that we would not disclose uh legal issues uh in the you know that's
attorney client privilege stuff that we're still ongoing. >> Have there been any applications made to the town for opening a retail >> can business >> Roxan? >> No, there's no applications.
>> Thank you Roxan. Um and then the other one uh Mr. Zap, my usual question. How are we doing with the brownfield? >> Getting closer. I see Doug's here. He's he's helping me with the uh the parcel transfer. Uh we're getting closer on
getting the transfers done with the green acres program. And uh from that point, uh I'm waiting to get the uh formal approval to start uh the mitigation of the wetlands. Um but it's a slow process, but um we're getting
there. Can you just um explain where are are the is the land that Sparta is donating to the state the land swap which is a familiar term at this point um is it going also to the New Jersey land trust or is it going to for the just I'm just
speaking about the landfill swap is that going for the to the New Jersey land trust or is it going to another state a entity >> I believe it's going to the green acres >> green acres okay because at the uh meeting last week it was stated that a parcel of land that is contiguous to the
land that's being discussed for the trail will also be donated under this initiative, the land use initiative, the landfill initiative, and that will also be going to the land trust. >> I'm not familiar with that at all of
being that way. the five parcels that I'm familiar with that have been >> recognized by the the mitigation council uh will all be going to the green acres >> green acres and do we have the same confidence in green acres that we apparently have for the New Jersey land
trust has that been explored do we have um tight deed u restrictions attached to these parcels before they get conveyed and will the community have a chance to see these deed restrict restrictions as has been stated for the other initiative,
>> right? Uh I I believe in order to make the parcels eligible, they had to be encumbrance-free of any type of really restrictions. Some of those properties though did have uh open space possibly on them. I'd have to look at them and get back to you on what those are. Um we
were just happy that the wetlands conso council considered it. Um so I I can look into that. As far as confidence, it sounds very subjective to me. So, so we're giving these lands to the state and we don't know for sure. And
you're saying now that we're not allowed to tell them that they can't log, drain, build. >> I I didn't say any of that. >> You said the land the lands can't be encumbered. >> What to be eligible for donation to the Green Acres program, right? >> Are we allowed to put deed restrictions
on those parcels before transfer? >> No. In order for them to be eligible, some of them had uh encumbrances that wouldn't allow us to donate them. So we had to make sure that they were eligible to be donated properties. I remember because we had to look at a bunch of different parcels that we had owned. So
we had to make sure of that. So it's a little bit of confusion on terms. Um >> but they will be protected as far as before this before the township conveys them to the state. We will have deed restrictions placed on them to eliminate or hope to mitigate. >> I I I will make sure of that. I'm sure
the council will make sure that I make sure of that. So yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah. >> Can the council see it before any signatures or anything gets conveyed? >> Sure. Um I have I have all the information for you. >> Okay. >> And just a little bit about uh Green
Acres. I know that I know the I I understand the concern. Um I know we've had on the reverse side. We've had concerns about with respect to Greenacres funding that you have to inventory everything that you have. And
the issue with that was Green Acres is so strict with their requirements that if you wanted to say put a path by Angererman Field, you would have to get approval from Green Acres to make sure you weren't increasing impervious and
you know other things. So they're very stringent. So my point in saying that is conveying it to Green Acres I think gives it more protection than it otherwise would have. Um, so but I understand the concern and we'll we'll do that. But I I want to make clear that, you know, Green Acres is a
separate entity from New Jersey Fish and Wildlife, separate entity from New Jersey land trust, but they're under similar kind of restrictions based on their mission um what they can do about land that's conveyed to them. So I'll just uh I just wanted thought that would be pertinent to the discussion. Does
anyone else have a public comment for items not on the agenda? Good evening, Ronda Day. Uh 22 Fox Hollow, uh Sparta. Um I just want to make some comments as we're closing out the 2025 year and going into 2026 and
just talk about the budget process and what we've seen and and where I I'd like to suggest we we go. You know, over the past few meetings, there's been a lot of discussions on many many issues. is, you know, too many to list and and you guys are doing a great job and giving us the ability to comment and have the
discussion. So, that's that's much much appreciated. Uh, personally speaking, one of my main concerns as a part of the resident remains keeping municipal taxes affordable. Um, I haven't heard much discussion about that in the past meetings. Um, we talked about specific
um new new programs, but how does that relate to the overall budget? Haven't really heard that as part of the discussion. Um, one of the master plan's top objectives since 1984 is to maintain a sound fiscal balance. So, so, so what does that mean? What does that mean to
me? And I guess in a quick, you know, less than five minute summary, it it means making sure we have realistic budgets, uh, which includes the revenues and expendes expenditures with a set set aside of sufficient reserves to cover any unplanned, unanticipated costs.
And if if we don't do that properly, it's going to it could result in in a decline in services that nobody, including everyone sitting up there really would like to see. Um, so hopefully as we go through the 2026 budget process, we're not going to see
those challenges, but I my gut feel is based on the numbers I've looked at, analysis I've done is is they're going to be challenges that need to be addressed. So, I would hope that with 2025 coming to an end in only a few weeks that we're able to forecast and forecast with a
high degree of probability where we're going to end up in 2025 from a budget perspective. In particular, I'm I'm looking at what are the reserves going to look like that we can move into 2026. Um, manager Zep, I'd welcome your preliminary assessment at a December
town council meeting. And town council members, I'd welcome your encouragement that the public be given this information at a December meeting. Um, and and I think the value of that is as we start talking about some of the new initiatives, some of the new appropriations, we know how it all fits together. We're not looking at just a
specific data point. Um, so I I think that's an important thing. I'd like you to consider that. Um, circling back to the last time I I commented at a town council meeting, we had the potential to substantially grow the reserve by about 3 million. and
where that three million was was in in an academy called unplanned or or reserved for uncollected taxes and at that time during that meeting none of that money was appropriated to anything it was wasn't appropriated so it really was sitting there as low hang I won't
say low hanging fruit but the availability to take that money hold it aside not appropriate anything new against it and use that for to help build the reserves in 2026. So hopefully as we get into 2026, we're going to see a good portion of that
money uh going into into the reserves accounts as we put together the 2026 budget. Um I think 2026 is going to be a concern. Uh Jim, I I believe you've had similar concerns and correct me if if I'm wrong. Um and I apologize if I am.
I'm sure that you, Dawn, and your teams are looking at it closely, but again, I am very concerned for 2026. So, I'm going to ask again that more financial information be included in the manager's report. Prior councils used to include attendance by both the town
council manager and the CFO, which gave us the ability to get a better feel for what's going on at any point in time in the budget process. How we doing? You know, not getting into the details, but just a high level 50,000 foot view. Are we on track? Are we going to be able to have the reserves that we need that are
necessary to to protect us against some unforeseen things? Um, so that that's my thoughts. You know, what I'd like to do is is just get your thoughts as as town council members and Jim, maybe your thoughts as financial as as I mean as the town manager if if you agree with what I'm
saying, if you think I'm off base, just like just to get some quick thoughts. >> What's >> I'm going to defer to you. >> Ron, I believe you're spot on. Um, I I I think you have valid concerns. I have
valid concerns. Um the budget isn't linear. It's it's dynamic. It it it breathes. It it it flexes. Um recently, uh I informed the council that the the biggest hit that the budget takes right now is health insurance. Everybody knows
the big hit on health insurance. The state health you can't control. >> State health insurance went up 30%. All right. We belong to a a joint health insurance fund, employment health fund. Um this year our health insurance rates went up 19.5%.
>> So my my time's up so I'll pick it up in the next go round. But the question to think about is okay so having that that data how we managing to make sure we can afford it without having to cut you know necessary services. Okay. Thanks and I
I'll see you at the next uh session. >> Yeah. I thank you. >> I have a couple comments just from my own perspective. not it's not the CFO obviously I looked into this a month ago and um I know Ron and you know others have heard this before um that from 2018
to 2023 um I see that there was an overuse of surplus right for six years to keep the budget almost flat artificially low and that um overusing the surplus takes a toll right um I mean thinking that it's
going to be flat taxes is every single year when there's inflation is unrealistic, right? It's like your own checking account, savings account. No, I don't have a dialogue. We'll do that later. >> Um, just as my So, corrective action was taken in 2024 and 2025. Um, when I looked a month ago,
uh, the surplus, there's been a lot of misinformation out there. It's not in the single thousands, not in 10,000, it's not in 100 thousands. From what I saw, the surplus, I'm not, don't quote me because it's a month ago. I'm not CFO. It's in the multiple millions of dollars by the end of the year. So we're not just to get everybody facts here,
you know, maybe four, five. I mean, it's it's there's going to be we're not down to zero. So everyone should not like u be alarmed that much by some of the things I'm seeing hearing out there. Um we are still doubleA bond rated. So just to share my own personal view again,
we'll have much more current data when we get through the next few months. Um but just so that's what I looked into about a month ago or so. So, you know, just to kind of set the stage a little bit that we, you know, we are trending that way and we do think of the things you mentioned in terms of planning for
next year. We'reware we're aware of them already. We see them coming. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for your comments. I appreciate it. And, you know, we'll talk more at the next uh public session. Thank you. >> Thanks, John. >> Okay. Any other member of the public wishing to be heard on items not on the agenda?
Right. Seeing no one, we will move on to the expenditures. Uh, Deputy Mayor Murphy, would you please read the expenditures of October 28th, 2025? >> The expenditures for October are 5,921 6348.
>> Okay. May I have a motion to approve the expenditures for October 28th, 2025? >> So moved. >> May I have a second, please? >> I will second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. The expenditures for October 28th, 2025 have been approved. U Deputy Mayor
Murphy, would you please read the expenditures for November 13, 2025? >> The expenditures for November 13, 2025 are 7,298,24456. >> May I have a motion to approve the expenditures for November 13th, 2025?
>> So moved. >> May I have a second, please? >> Second. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> The expenditures for November 13th and 2025 have been approved. Uh we are now up to the introduction of an ordinance.
Uh with respect to introductions as I've said before uh it's simply to introduce uh it's not time for the hearing. Um that will come at a later date. Um and so we don't entertain you know comments and discussion with respect to the introduction. Um, so again, so madame
clerk, would you please read the title of ordinance 2520? >> Uh, mayor, I know this is uh not protocol, but before you introduce this ordinance, uh, I think you should consider tableabling it until you have a
full council. Also, I would like you to be strengthened, not weakened. And also, there are clerical errors in it. specifically. I don't know who drafted it, but you uh start off says
pursuant to NJSA 54 colon 4. It really should read you should use a universal citation which is New Jersey Revised Statutes Title 54-
Taxation section 54 colon 4-3.30- disabled veterans exemption. That's the universal citation. It's not
the revised or it's not the uh NJSA. Also, you you word smithing this. You're taking out words that are in it. When you say pursuant to that means you pay attention to how it's written in a
state. The very first whereas the dwelling house and a lot where on the same is erected. That's not how the state reads it. It says the dwelling house and the lot or kernelage
where on the same is erected. So you got to use the proper legal terms. You can't go around word smithing. There's also uh council member, >> I've given you a fair amount of latitude, I think. >> Wait, wait, wait. No, there's some more corrections here that you need to pay attention to.
>> One of them is paragraph one. >> Point of order. >> This this this commentary from the public is not in order, and I ask that it be adhered. The point of order needs to be adhered to. The the clerk hasn't read the ordinance yet. We should follow the uh the quorum and the rule of order.
>> All right. read the ordinance and then I'll correct the rest of it. >> Well, I I I think you know I I'll take guidance from both the clerk and the attorney. I mean, I don't want to get us down the road of doing exactly what we tried not to do, which was have a
discussion on uh the or I think we will recognize um uh that former mayor Murphy has a significant amount of changes that he would wish to make. normally done. >> Oh, that's significant. Just one more. >> You know, that that usually is done
during the course of of the hearing and not at the introduction. So, I don't want to um I want to follow the process that has been advised to us. So, >> advice Wait a minute. Be why even introduce an ordinance if it's not correct. >> Well, that that's your position, sir.
>> No. Well, I'm just going by the way. >> And the time to articulate that position, as you well know, is at the hearing, not at the introduction. Um, >> well, go ahead and introduce it. I'm just going to add one more item. You have no mention of a surviving spouse in
this. >> Now, who are you trying to screw? The veterans or the veteran spouses? >> Okay. >> You need to address this. You need to look at >> Madam Clerk, could you please read the title of ordinance 2520? An ordinance amending uh chapter 2 administration
article 11 taxation and revenue of the revised general ordinances of the township of Sparta amending section 2-62 100% disabled veteran tax refund. >> Okay. Um may I have a motion to
introduce ordinance 2520? So moved. >> Uh may I have a second please? >> So seeing that we go ahead. >> I think if if it comment needs to be made or something needs to be changed, we do it at the time of the hearing.
Correct. >> Correct. And can you give us a brief what we are doing and if this needs to be changed we can do so but what this actually does
and why we're doing it. >> Sure. >> Should we vote please? >> Sure. the ordinance. Um, Sparta has always followed the state law that has an ordinance that provides for a benefit to veterans who are
certified to be fully disabled by the um veterans association. uh Sparta has historically provided for that tax property tax exemption at the time of application following the certification via the veterans
association. And uh previously there was a look back period of 2 years or 24 months where a um a retroactive property tax could be applied for and credited to a veteran
who otherwise qualified. This ordinance uh in line with many municipalities, the the predominant number of municipalities in the state of New Jersey uh will simply still follow the state statute, but will uh within the authority
provided for to the council start the property tax exemption at the time the application is provided to the tax assessor uh or excuse me, the tax collector. And at that time the application with the certification from
the veterans uh association would would allow for that exemption to go forward. And if the if the veteran had not yet applied to the VA two years prior
to uh and then like two years prior and then had become 100% disabled and was effectuated and then they applied to the town but if we do a look back two years they
had not been approved yet >> by the VA. Correct. And that's what >> the current the current ordinance as with all towns in New Jersey now predominant towns there may be one or two here or there um allows for a veteran who is qualified to make
application from cert after he or she receives certification from the veterans association to then make application to the township tax collector. Upon receipt and validation of the certification, he or she will be permitted to have the
property tax exemption going forward. And to the extent that there has been a payment for the quarter, there will be a proration for the quarter that has already been paid and that will be refunded. >> Thank you.
>> Welcome. Okay, we have a um a motion and and a second, but I think >> um well, we don't have a second and so in light of not having a second um and also to um is there a
my understanding is we have two more meetings left. Um we have the 25th and then we have um two weeks after that. Um, >> December 9th. >> December 9th. Um, would this put the
township in in any kind of uh straits or anything if we were to um table this to have it introduced on November 25th? Uh, so that then um, former mayor Murphy could write out what he expressed uh,
and comment and give that to us and we could take that into account into what we introduce on the 25th. >> Yeah. I think that's a good idea. >> Okay. >> I think Jerry could help us out. >> Since we we only had one we only have a first and not a second. Um I I think
that the ordinance is not introduced. And what I would do is make a motion to table this ordinance uh 2520 uh until November 25th at which time it'll be introduced. And I would advise uh Mr. Murphy or any anyone else uh you
know please send your comments to us um and we can take those into account. So when it's introduced hopefully um there won't be the ne necessity to come to and give a public comment during the introduction. So is that uh >> I'll second.
>> Okay. So the motion is to table ordinance 2520 uh until for introduction on November 25th. >> Could I just add Pete Litchfield 120 Kosoga trail? >> Let's do a vote. Mr. Lichfield. We just did a motion. Let's we do a vote, right? Sure. >> Um
>> I could do a roll call. I could do a roll call. >> Okay. So, we have a first and a second. And Madame Clerk, may we have a roll call? It's a motion to table ordinance 2520 for introduction on November 25th. >> Councilman Scott, >> yes. >> Councilman Blumeetti, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor Murphy, >> yes. >> Mayor Clark,
>> yes. So, ordinance 2520 has been uh tabled. We do intend to introduce that um because again to fit this in in the calendar year of 2025, we need to get it introduced on the 25th and then hopefully approved on the 9th. Um, and
at that time I would encourage uh uh former councilman Murphy to write, you know, write us to what he thinks the changes should be. Um, and Mr. Litzfield, you know, whatever comments you have, you know, please let us know. >> Once you make all your changes, could you please get them to me? I've been
talking to our council with the New Jersey State VFW. They would like to see a copy of it, and I'd like to give them sufficient time to be able to uh join us at the next meeting. Thank you. Okay. So, 2520 has been tabled. Um, we
are now up to the hearing of ordinances. Now, at this at the hearing, uh, the I will signal when it's time for the public to comment. Um, so, madame clerk, would you please read uh, title of ordinance 2517, >> an ordinance of the township of Sparta,
county of Sussex, state of New Jersey, establishing an advisory beautifification committee within the township. Okay, I will open it to public comment uh related to 2517 again which is the ordinance of the township of Sparta uh to establish a advisory
beautifification committee within the township. Any member of the public wishing to be heard? Okay, I'll take it back to council for discussion or comments. Okay. Um this is just following up on uh
what I introduced a few weeks ago uh seeing the progress that had been done on in White Deer Plaza. Um and I thought it was a good idea to extend that. Um so this beautifification committee would be dealing with beautifification in and around Main Street. And so I think it's
a very good idea. It will be really within the ambit of the committee members to come up with ideas and funding etc. Um, so you know, hopefully this will pass tonight and we'll get folks from the public who wish to and I've already gotten some emails about people who are interested in this. Um,
hopefully this is something that um, our residents can take pride in and you can really have a real impact and you'll actually get to see uh, the fruits of your labor when uh, when you drive down Main Street of all the work that you've done. So, I look forward to hopefully this passing tonight and um we can have
a very they can do as good a job on Main Street as they've done in White Deer Plaza. >> All right. May I have a motion to adopt ordinance 2517? >> So moved. >> May I have a second, please? >> Second. >> Um Madame Clerk, may I have a roll call?
>> Can we can we talk about how we're going to fund this? >> Sure. Um, so part of it is we we've we've already gotten unlike almost every single advisory committee that we have. Um, we already have a pledge. Um, I
don't know the exact dollar amount yet, but uh, one of our businesses has agreed to give some seed money to that. There's also, you know, part of what their job will be will be to find grant funding for this. And this is what I tell most
all of my advisory committees. trails film um this one in particular that the goal is to one do not burden the township on resource on financial resources nor man man or person power um you know take it upon yourself try to do
it yourself so we can you know this is I think a particular committee um you know the folks who have done the work with white deer have done very good I know I've had a discussion with uh the Vernon mayor they do the same thing in Vernon Um and they were able to get planters
donated. Um they have uh they use it where a particular business can sponsor the planter and so that's a form of like advertisement. So they're more than willing to donate the money to get the planter and get flowers in it. So it's a
real way that we can hopefully have no net cost to the township. Plus, I I'll add too that we have a grant writers and a grant uh company that we use for lots of other grant opportunities across the broad spectrum of topics. So, that's also uh something
that this committee can use, look for grants. >> Okay. Any other uh council have any discussion, questions or comments on ordinance 25 um 18 >> 17 >> 17 sorry
>> 17. Is it mandatory that we have nine people on the committee? >> No, I think we just built that number. It's not mandatory. We can have more, we can have less. I think, you know, um right now we have to see what applications come in yet. I I can tell
you I don't think we have nine applicants yet. So, >> and okay, >> besides not everyone follows uh the Peter principle, which is, you know, 20% of the people do 80% of the work anyway. So, um, we could probably have two people and this would still get done.
Um, but any with that aside, um, so any other comments or questions with respect, uh, to 2517? >> All right. >> All right. May I have a roll call vote? >> Councilman Scott, >> yes.
>> Councilman Blummedi, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor Murphy, >> yes. Mayor Scott, >> I mean Mayor Clark. >> Mayor Clark. >> Yes, >> I apologize. >> All right. Excellent. So, uh, ordinance 2517,
uh, has passed. We now, uh, have a beautifification committee in Sparta to follow other towns like Vernon and I think Danville, a few others. So, I look forward to seeing um, you know, it's already a great looks beautiful now. Thank you, uh, Manager Zep, for all the
work and that the police are doing to help, uh, the improvements there. All right. Next up, um, Madame Clerk, could you please read the title of ordinance 2518, >> an ordinance appropriating the total sum of $90,000 from general capital fund
balance for funding, digitizing, and archiving paper files or purposes by the Township of Sparta in the county of Sussex, New Jersey. >> Okay. Um, so we're now up to public comment related to ordinance 2518, which is an ordinance appropriating the total
sum of 90,000 from general capital fund balance for funding, digitizing, and archiving paper files um, uh, for Sparta. Any member of the public wishing to be heard on this particular ordinance? >> Hi, Beth Broadick, Northshore. How does
this affect OPER requests? because I submitted one for traffic with a traffic committee and a subcommittee through the planning board and the county and possibly Lake Mohawk. So, if you're archiving the documents,
does that mean that people putting in over requests for stuff from like 2020, 2021 or a little bit before, does that mean we can't get our stuff? >> Is it going to go? >> It actually means you might get it faster >> potentially. Yes. potentially. Yes, I
can't get my stuff or potentially I get it faster. >> Get it faster. >> You could get it faster, more efficiently once we take all the paper files that we have and we digitize them and allow them to be queried much faster through computers. Yes, we would be able to respond to your open requests much
faster. That's one of the advantages to to doing this. >> So, there's not going to be like a cut off of, oh no, sorry, we're only like 10 years before or whatever. Like, what's the cut off on that? because I'm looking at stuff from like 20 something years ago. >> It's going to take a while to digitize
all the files we have. So, I can't give you >> Sorry, Roxan. I'm not after you. I promise. >> But this is this is the first step in the right direction to making it easier on everybody. Uh when we digitize the files, we have the the whole advantage of computerization and being able to
query and look up uh information much faster rather than going to paper files. >> Okay. Thanks, >> Rob Otto. Uh, also Northshore Trail. So, just to expound on that and, uh, clarify. So, the
90,000 figure, so you you can't really say it's just establishing the system. It's not like this is going to be 10 years, the past 10 years. This is just kind of backfilling procedure for digitization
and capturing metadata related to for future searches to improve uh Roxan's process for like Beth's concern like Oprah. It just it's the first step. So there might be more followup. >> Absolutely. This is honestly it's a
practical matter is I don't have space to put the files right and what happens is now I have a new IT group who uh have really helped us out taking us to the next level of technology uh by digitizing and this money as we said
this is balanced money from the prior capital improvements right so this isn't new debt or or anything we're using leftover money from other capital projects to to fund this and what it does is frees up storage space. It makes research easier. Speed up OPER request
processing. Enhances disaster recovery. Uh improves document security. Facilitates compliance with retention schedules and regulatory requirements and enables future integration with other township systems like the SDL and the admin systems and whatnot. And so
we're just starting it. Um uh 90,000 is going to do right now most of our legal files. That's where I've started this. and then we'll move on to the clerk files, planning and zoning. Uh we'll move on to the other departments. Uh and it'll be an ongoing process. Um it it's
funny since we introduced this ordinance, I've been inundated with email from all these archiving companies who who want to uh get a get a piece of this. But uh we we have a company who's already uh given us a very good proposal. They're on state contract. um
they've they've vetted been well vetted and uh I'm looking forward to to do doing this and ultimately it will benefit the the public and the staff. >> So just the so the 90,000 not to belabor it but the 90,000 is not specific to a
certain cache of legal documents that you might be in receipt of. It's just this is the first step in line with many other municipalities, many other county uh recordkeeping best practices. Right. >> That sounds accurate.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Derek tap into Sparta. Which what is the name of the group that you've contract that you're >> contract? Fionics. >> I'm sorry. >> Fauvionics. >> F. Could you spell that for me, please? F O V E N I O N I CS
>> something like that. Okay. And it and it's what are they? They're archivists. >> Uh yes, they're a digitization company. Um they're on the ECJ co-op. >> How long do you anticipate this taking?
>> 198 banker boxes. Um it'll take a few months, I'm sure. And will this allow these documents to be searchable by the community? Will they be publicly able to be searched? >> Uh once it's cleared through legal,
>> they are legal documents. So I'll have to clear it through legal. >> We used to have quite a robust search feature on the website until it got updated where you could search a keyword and get back all the way into the 1990s, 80s,7s and that went away. So is that
something that you're looking to bring back? We could look into that. I I mean there are open to this. Again, as Rob had indicated, this is the first step. >> Um we we we could definitely look into a search feature for the public on that. Um I'm curious though how redaction and
all gets handled through it. Um but we could look into that. >> Thank you. >> Wow. Who knew digitation had so much popularity? Hey folks, Ronda Day again. Um, so when I look at this effort, to me it sounds more like an expense than a than a
capital expenditure in terms of I think capital it's a tangible item. You depreciate over time. I'm not sure how you do that, but I'll defer to to you guys the experts that terms is it the right answer. Um, but but looking at it what I'm hearing is 90,000 now more to
come we don't know. And that kind of goes back to where I started tonight. This is the first step of more. So when you look at the total effort, we talking twice $90,000. Are we talking a half a million dollars to get all this done? What are we looking at here?
>> Pending budget funding, Ron. Uh we have control of that, which is a good thing. And you know, we're going to start with the legal files that I don't have space to store right now. Right. We're going to store it and we're going to experience the benefits of having that. uh if it really works, I'll recommend us moving on to the next department and
storing those and I'll be looking at the funding on how we're going to decide how to fund it and we can do it in phases. Uh it doesn't have I don't have an exact number or cost on all that. Um you know, I anticipate that this is going to work out well because there's a bunch of
other towns who already use this company. They already are running uh the digitization with success. Um I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I do benchmark a lot when we make purchasing decisions like that. So, I'm pretty confident this is going to be a good
thing, but we do have control of every time we'll be here again, you know, approving the the next investment on digitization and uh we can talk about that and and I'm not trying to suggest that it's a bad idea because it's something that that's needed. I I I totally get that. Um I guess if there's
any any questions I have is, you know, number one, is it really a capital expense? Um and then number two is um are we c can this wait till next year? Can we get a a better handle on what we have? Again, I think 2025 is closing
very tightly. Um is it really necessary to do it now or can we look at it and maybe and part of the 2026 budget do this and the next step together and maybe you do more. It sounds like you're getting a lot of companies to show an interest. Maybe I don't know where the 90,000 came from is. I don't know if that was competitively bid or or soul
source, but maybe we can get a better price. So, just some thoughts for you. >> It's already been bid out. That's why it's on the co-op contract. So, we already got the best price going on that. And this money's already been set aside. It was, believe it or not, it was leftover money for from the salt barn shed
>> from from capital. >> From capital. >> Okay. So, that could I'll leave that to you. >> Right. And and so it's already there. And believe it or not, I need the space. Oh, I again I I am not trying to say don't do it. I'm questioning is it a capital expense.
>> Capital expense has a lot of parameters it has to adhere to like you know over a 5year lifespan. Okay. >> Right. Does it have over a 5year lifespan? Well, archiving the digital files some would say yes it does and and what it invests in. So, um I think it could be argued that it is a capital
expense. Um, and I I I I think we have an opportunity that I really just don't want to pass up for the town and for the administration. >> All right. I again, I just you've got my thoughts. I I I I'd rather see things like this deferred to 2026 again cuz you
know it can this money if we don't use it here, can it go into the reserves to carry into 2026, which is a number that again, you know, my concerns there. Thanks. >> Thanks, Ron. Yeah, I I'll just say as someone who who
has had to negotiate these type of contracts um when I was a younger lawyer um because in our cases we have millions of pages of documents and so we have to bid out uh to OCRM um I think what
you're getting for 198 boxes roughly 2,000 pages of documents per box um that's a lot of pages and you're getting a pretty good deal. I know that I mean I'm we're looking well into six figures in my cases uh for OCR and stuff. Um now
everyone produces electronically don't have to worry that but 20 years ago um we had you know banker boxes and so I think what you're getting is is a decent price and I can tell you um one thing we more difficult to quantify is the
savings in time and expense um that our staff you know we we are a very lean staff and having to go dig through boxes to find something um is particularly takes a lot of time and effort. So, I look forward to the day that we can get these things quickly and to the extent
that, you know, attorney documents are a different category because there's they're still privileged even if the case is over. So, we'd have to, you know, the public obviously can't see attorney client privilege stuff. Um, but there's a way that I hope we can get this particularly for our um our
departments. I think this will be very good. Um, particularly when it comes to prior approvals of business applications and things like that. I think there's a lot of efficiencies to be gained here. So, I look forward to being able to do this um for the rest of our departments.
All right. Any other um public comment on 2518? Any other council comment on 2518? >> Yeah. Excuse me, Jim. I wanted to ask you if we could answer Mr. Day's
question. If we don't use this $90,000 this year, >> how does that affect our next year? How does that affect the the ability to to tax next year or to recover that money
>> or or where would this money go? >> The money's already been appropriated through your capital approval uh from actually what when did we approve the the the salt bar? was already so what I've done is as you know a lot of that that leftover money has been
sitting in those lines right and then the last council meeting we canled all that and collected all that and now that goes into a general fund a capital general fund all right and then it'll be used to redistribute in the next capital program that we we we apply for so um I
I think it's a very wise way of spending some of it I'm not spending all of it just uh some of it and I do have space issues I have 198 banker boxes right now that I need to find a place for. Um the mezzanine is a fire hazard as I'm reminded several times. Uh I don't have
space to store the files unless we go back to renting space at the the you storage up there off of White Lake. I don't I just don't think that's a wise move. I think this is the best use of the money and I I think it opens doors for us to experience the benefits of of
digitizing files. I I really do. I I think this is a very wise, prudent investment by the council and and the taxpayers >> at this time. >> At this time, >> I would agree. I agree with Jim and our CFO as well. And um I wasn't the biggest
fan a couple years ago of the salt barn. So, uh I know we allocated a lot of money towards it. I'm glad to see there was a little bit left over and I'm sure a lot of it is because of our township staff doing some of the work. I know that was happening over the last couple years instead of, you know, billing out to another company. So to have have a
little bit left over to use for this. Um I think it's I think it's important that we get there from a a document storage and security standpoint. >> Okay. Any other council with comments on 2518? All right. May I have a motion to adopt
ordinance 2518? >> So moved. >> May I have a second, please? >> I'll second. >> Uh Madam Clerk, may I have a roll call? >> Councilman Scott? >> Yes. >> Councilman Blummedi? >> Yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mayor Clark.
>> Yes. So, uh, ordinance 2518, uh, has passed. >> All right. Madame Clerk, we're now up to the final ordinance, uh, of the evening. Uh, Madame Clerk, could you please read or the title of ordinance 2519? >> An ordinance of the Township of Sparta,
County of Sussex, State of New Jersey, to ban smoke shops and vape shops as a principal permitted use in any zone district and to regulate restrict the sale of cannabis derived products within the township. >> Okay. So, we're now up to the public
comment period for 2519. So, if you have a public comment, please uh come forward to the microphone. Uh, please be mindful of the five-minute limit and limit your comments to ordinance 2519. >> Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council. Thank you very much. Uh, my name is
David Gray to Fieldstone Trail, Byron Township, New Jersey. Uh, some of you may know me as an attorney, but tonight I come to speak to you as a patron and member of Casa Del Tobacco, the local uh, cigar shop here in Sparta Township.
And the reason I'm speaking tonight uh and the reason a couple dozen other friends of mine are here who are also patrons uh and more are coming and more are watching at home is because of our concern that somehow premium handrolled cigars got lumped in
with your cannabis ordinance and that's what our concern is. Casadel Tobacco uh down at 37 Woodport Road here in Sparta. Uh our members are people like me. There's Sparta residents, doctors, lawyers,
uh, barbers, pharmacists, retired police officers, some elected officials from other towns, people from every walk of life. And we have one thing in common. After a long day, we like to enjoy our camaraderie over a premium handrolled
cigar. Has nothing to do with cannabis. has nothing to do with smoking cigarettes. Uh it's simply a hobby that we enjoy. And a couple of things, and I understand that not everybody knows a lot about premium handrolled cigars. Uh
they're just a little bit different. This one happens to be a $20 premium handrolled cigar. They say about 300 hands have went into making this cigar from seed through production. It's
a work of art. It takes years of fermentation. They age like fine wine and we enjoy them around our camaraderie and our friends. I will tell you that when we smoke these premium cigars, we do not inhale them.
But if someone if someone were to light up a cigarette or or smoke a vape or a cannabis uh joint, we would throw them out of there. That would ruin our experience. That is not what we are about. This is not about
cannabis. At Casadel Tobacco, they only sell premium handrolled cigars. There are no cigarettes sold. There are no vapes sold. There are no There is no cannabis sold. There is no cannabis consumed at Casadel Tobacco.
I respectfully suggest it might have been an oversight, but an inappropriate one to lump cigars in the same bucket as cannabis. Uh I would go so far as to say it's arbitrary. And uh I would respectfully ask the council to simply
consider uh clarifying whether either this business is grandfathered or better yet just remove cigars from the ordinance. Just take a look at the ordinance. understand, you know, the people here
voted and I'm aware of the vote against cannabis, but they did not vote against premium handrolled cigars. So, I respectfully suggest that that should be carved out and not put into the same bucket.
So, with that, I appreciate very much uh you listening to me. Um my friends may speak, they may not. Uh but please understand we've all uh been very concerned about this ordinance and how it would affect us because we're not a
group of gentlemen that like to go to the bars to hang out. It's a little bit different, perhaps a little bit more refined, but certainly a different type of hobby that we don't think should be lumped in with cannabis. Thank you very
much. Any other member of the public wishing to be heard on 2519? >> Beth Rodri still at Northstar. Where do mushrooms fit in in this? Were they excluded? I thought the planning board addressed it. Does this take into
account everything that the planning board discussed and covered and sent back to you guys? Um, it does not include a drug that is already prohibited by law, which would be psilocybin, which is what you're
referring to. Is that am I right that there wasn't the deed to include something that you couldn't have in the first place? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then to follow up on the cigars, they're already here. Wouldn't
they be grandfathered in? >> You know, he's got to He's right. It's totally different than cannabis. So, I don't think that you should be hurting somebody that has a great following and has done something good for the community. So, I don't think that you should be leaving him out, especially
when tobacco is different than cannabis. So, I'm just curious, is he grand wouldn't he be grandfathered in because he's existing before the ordinance? >> Yes. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure. Mike Sylvester, 12 Dylan Drive. I think
just to uh echo the previous comments, uh unless you could speak to it, I would request removing tobacco. I mean, it's kind of blended into the whole cannabis ordinance and unless there was any specific reasons that we could explain to the public, but as it reads now, I I
I would recommend that that get stricken from the ordinance. andor tabled for next meeting so I could get further updated or understanding of >> you know more of the details >> to accelerate >> I'll have something to say about that when we get back to council comments but
I think the point is well taken >> Jenny Derek's tap in desparta what is the intention of this ordinance >> so I'll I'll speak to that because it was u originally My idea was to unfortunately in Sparta um we had the
experience that shops that sold um products that were uh below the threshold for THC um were also selling illegal cannabis. >> Okay. So, so if I could finish um so
therefore this happened not once, not twice, three times in this township that we had a type of business that sold um you know THC below the threshold as they were allowed to, but what they were doing behind that was selling uh
unlawful cannabis and distributing it. And so the thought was, well, we obviously don't want to have that happen. Unfortunately, this type of use, meaning a a shop that sells THC products below a
certain limit, have been a type of use in this township um that has drawn um people who want to sell cannabis illegally. So, uh what at least what I thought was okay, if that's happening, then the simplest way to do that is to simply ban that type of use within the
township. >> Okay. Um, >> if I may, because my time is clicking away, uh, when this idea of legal cannabis, which is different than marijuana, which is anything that's not legal, was brought up, the police said that they have no problem with the
existing laws because they can already enforce and they have they have made the arrests for three different businesses. My question about the intent was if you're if your intention is to regulate unllicensed products, which is what it
sounds like the umbrella capture would be that you're looking to regulate unlicensed products that could potentially have be ingested for some type of mood altering or something along those lines. You're
not you're not going to get it by this ordinance. There are other products out there that do such things such as the hemp lace drug drinks and therratom is now the newest thing right chief is now the newest thing and there's going to be another new thing and
another new thing. So it would seem that rather than putting a blanket on smoke shops. I understand that and I I've mentioned this before that the smoke shop use would be a land use issue that if you want to carve that out
that's one thing and I'm not saying that's one way or the other that that's a good or a bad thing but then the actual issue that it seems which is why I asked the question what is the purpose of this ordinance is because if you're trying to get at the substances
that are not regulated but that do alter the the cognitive abilities of people who ingest them, then this doesn't get it for you because there are so many other things other than the THC. And you're not going to be able to go into the gas station
uh grocery stores that carry this stuff because they're an established chain business. So, you're not going to you're not going to achieve the goal that you seem to be looking for. >> Well, I I think there may be a misunderstanding. Part of it >> that's why I asked what's your
intention? Part of it is the intention is not focused on necessarily the substance. And I get your point which is cuz under this something whose principal place of business uh is say a convenience store that convenience store can also sell um
tobacco related product. The issue is we don't have a problem with a quick check and a 7-Eleven selling cannabis out the back door. We do have that problem with respect to this type of use and the type of business like this that that was the
intent which is unfortunately this type of use has where someone whose principal place principal business is to sell these THC products has then used that as a front to sell cannabis out the back
door um unlawfully. That was really the intent. It wasn't because we can't stop the actual substance itself. The substance itself will be sold could still be sold at 7-Eleven. It could still be sold at >> That's why I'm asking the question because the current ordinance clearly is
sufficient because we've been had these businesses shut down under the ordinance that currently exists. >> So what is the purpose? >> Well, I would disagree that it, you know, that required uh a multi-year investigation, a lot of resources. So, I
don't think it's really a solution to say, "Well, we can just do another multi-year investigation." In my mind, >> that's going on now with zoning with zoning enforcement all over town. >> I understand that. >> So, I don't So, the the >> limited resources and time in this
township and this is a particular problematic use. It's been proven over and over again. And so one, we could we could say, well, we'll just wait till the next bad bad apple shows up in Sparta and then spend a two-year investigation involving God knows how
many agencies. In my mind, that seems a rather inefficient way to handle this. A more efficient way to handle it is to not allow a type of use that's proven problematic in this township. So that was my thought process into why this particular loose. You know, there are
some very valid points that I think uh the gentleman made and and and I think we should discuss that. >> Uh Robato, Northshore Trail. Um speaking as a private citizen, and I'm actually not going to comment on the smoke shops
portion of it, but uh just on to Jenny's point, uh I wouldn't say is the next new thing. it's been around for over a hundred years. Um, I'd be more concerned about THC isomers and stuff like that. So,
kind of to Jenny's point, I see what you're trying to do and I appreciate it, but uh I don't know if it I would just urge you to look at yeah, possibly decouple the
tobacco and cannabis as has been said and then maybe there's a broader net you could cast because on the one hand you said you don't want to address a certain substance because it's illegal. But then
on the other hand, you're saying, well, our intent is to crack down on this type of shop because they're basically a portal for sales of in illegal substance or an unregulated or something they're not allowed to sell. So, I just
Where are you drawing the line? I I get what you're trying to do, but I would just urge you to maybe handle the handle the uh the cannabis thing separately and then address the
this this other unregulated stuff in a separate ordinance respectfully. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other member of the public wishing to be heard on 2519? Not I'll take it back to um council for
comments. I know Councilman Blumatti has a few. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> So thanks. I think starting with the the title of this, it's a misnomer. Um as its focus really when you read it is more about legal tobacco, cigars, and
other legal products. So, I do have a few comments on this. So, I'm in favor of addressing the problems we faced in the past regarding illegal sales and gifting of prohibited cannabis products. Goes without saying. And we've seen the excellent work of our township police
department and other jurisdictions over the last earlier this year to crack down and address crime that was happening in a few cases. However, I have major issues with how this is written. First, it combines cigar shops with
businesses that sell illegal THC products. Uh the inclusion of legal and legitimate businesses that may offer legal tobacco products for residents um such as the one that exists today in town. Including that is unnecessary and overreach. uh the products and customers of that
type of legitimate business have no relationship whatsoever, as we've heard before, to illegal smoke shops and those that might violate the law by distributing illegal products. It's a totally different market. It goes without saying. Um and additionally,
cigar shops and cigar lounges in town uh are highly attractive and desirable and to certain clientele and residents especially. Um, to me the ordinance reads as an attack on tobacco products. That's its primary objective. Um, listen, I'm I'm
by no means a a heavy tobacco advocate, and I'm not I'm not a user, but you know, with tobacco, it's the location where a tobacco product is smoke where it's regulated, right? And where this restriction comes into play. Restaurants, public spaces, it's not the
purchase of the legal tobacco, right? Or a legal product. It's where and how you might use it. So why would we prohibit a resident from buying a cigar and smoking it either in a lounge or in his or her backyard, right? We don't stop someone from buying a beer and having it on their deck in their backyard. Why can't
they consume it at home if they want? Second is the way this draft ordinance is written. It prohibits the sale of safe legal CBD health and wellness products that are derived from hemp. Um, and these products may contain by
law legally a minuscule trace amount of THC. Physicians sometimes recommend these to their patients. Legal CBD products can contain up to 0.3% THC. So that's less than onethird of 1%
THC. Many of those are approved by the FDA. They're used by grandmothers, by athletes, by teachers. some of them and they're legal across America under the 2018 Farm Bill. So these are legal products. They that low dose that low trace element of THC does
not have a psychotropic effect, meaning there's no intoxicating impact from it. In New Jersey, they're naturally der derived as well. So these these two elements in this ordinance, the cigar and tobacco and the CBD health and well wellness products which are both legal
are not necessary in order to achieve what's stated as a desire impact of this draft ordinance. If criminal activity occurs, let law enforcement handle the criminal activity. Um so for example, silly example, you have a movie theater that
sells popcorn. If someone on the side is is gifting or selling little bags of crack, we're not going to ban movie theaters and ban popcorn. It's a law enforcement issue. We deal with it then and there. Um prohibiting legal businesses, legitimate businesses from selling these products, whether they're cigars or the CBD health and wellness
lotions and other products simply based on some past examples over the last few years of criminals, alleged criminals in town is I think it's misdirected and a little bit of overreach. So I think that while maybe the intent of this was to stop illegal activity, I
think the way it's written and the way it's scoped is really affecting use of legal products and it's really a broad and indirect solution to that. Um at the planning board meeting uh a week ago on
the 5th, this topic was discussed and the planning board attorney uh sent us a memo summarizing some of the concerns from the planning board. One of those was the scope of the ordinance. Um, so, you know, my feeling here is
that, you know, we should table this, think about it more carefully, fine-tune it if needed. Uh, and also it would really be good to include the perspective of our councilman elect Sylvester, who was a former planning board, former planning board member, and to get his take on this as well. Um, so
I I I'll let others speak, but I plan to make a motion to table it. Murphy. >> Uh, yes. I Yes, that would be grandfathered in the tobac shop. Um,
I I have a bigger problem with the THC in the alcohol that's being sold um than the vape shop. I I personally don't want a vapor smoke shop, but the uh huge signs with THC and alcohol that I have a problem with because it's very
strong. Um, yeah, I would agree to to table this as well to have it rewritten because I think it's a little broader than it it needs to be. Um, no, we don't need and and we need to include something along with mushrooms,
which I think the state is trying to pass, but that's the last thing we need. Um, I would agree as well. Councilman Scott. >> Uh, being someone that's in recovery, I can I can tell you that, you know, if
you smoke enough of that hemp, you can get high. Okay. But I just, you know, and and that's why I'm kind of totally against this, right? Totally against the cannabis, totally against the hemp. There's no need to sell this in this town.
There's 11 stores within two miles of this town. Plus, you can have it delivered. There's signs all over now to get it delivered. I am a I I I don't know what the feeling is, the emotion is, but when I walk into and
I don't do it often or I don't do it at all, but when I walk into a store that's got bongs and pipes and glass pipes in the window
and it's in Sparta, I don't think it has to be here in Sparta cuz these bongs, you know, they say they say, "Yes, and I why are you selling these?" Well, well, a lot of our f a lot of our people smoke
tobacco and they use these and we we we we know that that's not true. Okay? And uh and the same thing for the glass pipes. You know, the glass pipes are bringing it up to another level. Okay? Because the glass pipes are not pot, not
not tobacco, but it's a higher drug, right? It's crystal meth, it's crack cocaine, it's stuff like that that doesn't need to be sold in this town. If you need to get it, you go to the Exxon station in the island on the way out down 15. You can get your glass pipes
there. I don't go to that store anymore. I don't go to that gas station anymore because I don't like seeing that. And I would just like to keep Sparta the wonderful place it is.
Obviously the cigars I think we should have a cutout for that. We should have we have to examine this a little deeper. Um, but you know, I believe that anything had that has THC in it at any level
doesn't need to be sold in this town. Thank you. >> Just a reaction, Mark. I understand your point of view. This has nothing to do with um cannabis products that are legal uh or illegal to get people high.
No, but if they have bongs and whatnot. >> Well, this doesn't say you can't sell a glass pipe or bong, whatever. >> No, maybe it should. >> Well, I think Well, to cover that, if you don't have the use in the first place, you're not going to have the
paraphernalia related to the use. So, >> it would take care of that. So that I mean, but we I don't think we're going to get down to the level of passing an ordinance, allowing a use, and then dictating the the the wees that that particular use is allowed to sell. That
that's within the confines of the business owner. So paraphernalia that we may have problems with wouldn't be sold because the business use wouldn't be there in the first place. So I think that would take care of that. Um but I think I mean I think I've explained sort
of why um you know the genesis of this that it really you know had to do with the type of use that had unfortunately attracted um a lot of you know illegal um distribution of controlled one substances. Um and so that that was
really it. But I think there was a a very fair point that um that that was not the issue with respect to uh the cigar lounge. It wasn't. Um and so there may I I would think I I think other
people have articulated that that I do think it probably makes sense to try to figure out how we can carve that out. Um, so these folks again, even though they would be uh entitled to continue to operate it even if we pass this under a pre-existing uh non-conforming use and
then you can get a certificate, right? Am I right? That you can get a certificate that you are a pre-existing non-conforming use. So if Kasa Tobacco wanted to sell to say JNR Tobacco and become the JNR Tobacco Cigar Lounge,
they would be able to do so. >> Is that right? >> That's correct. 100. >> But I think um I think what what this would do is future cigar lounges would probably have a lot more difficulty uh under if this ordinance was passed. But I think we're I I think having, you
know, heard the articulation of the folks that we may be sweeping in something that wasn't the problem in the first place. >> Like I make a motion that we table this. Uh, may I have a second to table uh, ordinance 2519?
>> I'll second that. >> All right. May I have a roll call on the motion to table ordinance 2519? >> Councilman Scott? >> Yes. >> Councilman Amedi? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor Murphy? >> Yes. >> Mayor Clark? >> Yes. So, ordinance 2519 uh has been tabled and we will and um
and the gentleman who spoke um if you you know feel free to send us a a letter kind of like what we encouraged on the vet thing. You know, you're you're you're pertinent and others too. Um um but obviously I think that that's something that we can take into
consideration and we look forward to your input uh Councilman Elect Sylvester as well. Okay, we'll let everyone file out. [Laughter] Okay, we're now up uh to the second
public comment period and this is limited to the resolutions and so if you have uh a public comment that you'd like to make to the resolutions that are identified in the agenda, please come forward uh and please be mindful of our fiveminute limit.
for you. Um, I think it's resolution 9-5, election transparency act law on the paragraph beginning with now therefore be it resolved. Uh, it says township authorized the QPA
qualified pers agent to award window contracts then has in compliance with pay-to-play regulations. I don't see the connection there. Payto play is different. If you just simply ended a sentence with award window contracts,
that's fine. But I >> pay threshold, Jerry, is 175. That's why it's referred to. >> Yeah, but you already said it over above it says in the very first whereas or second, I'm sorry. It says 175. And then
you clarify that with the uh increased bid threshold for municipalities with a QPA to 53,000. That says it all. What what does pay to play is different. No, this is allowing the QPA to award the contracts between
the window that's why we call it the window contract between the the paytoplay threshold which is 175 and the QPA bidding threshold of 53,000. >> Correct. >> Right. pay to play. That's different. >> Well, it it is different, but it
establishes the the window of 175 at 17. I just think it's redundant. I don't think I think it should just be taken out of there. You already established the window >> and defined it. >> That's it. >> All right. Well, that simple. >> We could take that under consideration.
I I don't think it hurts the the resolution at all. >> Well, it doesn't add. It's just confusing. It's verbiage. Okay, Jenny Derek's tap into Sparta. So, resolution 96 is only here. It's not
online. So, I didn't know about it until 3 minutes ago when somebody texts me and says, "Why is 96 on the agenda? This has to do with the land swap." But here it is. No discussion of so far that
this was added but so so be it. Um this land this the purpose of this resolution is to allow for the discussion for the establishment of a contract and the de the uh development of the deed
restrictions for this land. Is that correct? And then does this go forward because you're you're saying uh page nine the top whereas proposes to construct a 10- foot wide recreational walking path. Does
this land transfer happen even if the boardwalk is not created? Can this transfer stand alone is my is one of my questions. Have all of the survey
results been done um been been taken or does this allow for those to happen? Do the deed restrictions that are going to be created have the opportunity to be reviewed? I asked this question before by the council members and the public and is there going to be another vote
prior to that so the community knows that this is happening? >> Yeah. Yes. So as to I heard heard your questions. It's yes as to all of those questions. >> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. I think that's it. >> Welcome.
>> Any other member of the public wishing to be heard on the resolutions? >> I have another question. Um, at the last meeting there were a lot of concerns about property lines. Have has that been addressed yet? And also, oh, Beth
Rodick, not sure. Also, there were question there. I think we're there's going to be followup with Mr. Dystra, but I'm not really sure. So, I just want to make sure that was done. And there were an awful lot of questions from the residents in that area who are directly affected. Have all of their concerns
been addressed or are members of council still working that out with the appropriate people like the surveyors and the residents? because it just seems like this is being kind of rushed and there was a lot of confusion about whether this would be on the agenda tonight or not. And it just doesn't seem
fair that people didn't have it on the agenda, made other plans are not here and are going to be directly affected by this and you know people possibly walking through. And then also there were there was a conversation about the path going from the high school to the
middle school. I don't see any of that in there. So, is this a recreational path or is it for a safe way for the kids to go back and forth between the schools because it just seems like there's a whole lot of macaroni being thrown at the wall and some some of it sticking and some not and I don't think
anybody really knows what is trying to be accomplished here. It just seems a little confusing and not everything is there. >> Yeah. So, we had I don't I didn't I don't think you attended. We had uh >> I was there uh on October 30th >> the environmental one. No, because I'm
not allowed on the committee. >> On October 30th, we uh opened up the trails meeting um to the public. Uh we were we streamline we uh streamed it. Uh we spent over two hours. Um uh a lot of
the affected property owners were there. Uh Mr. Dyer was there with the actual um what the the the conveyance property and the conveyed to us. And at that point, I think we all sort of left the meeting feeling like we had um answered a lot of
the questions um al obviously with the the caveat that we will do a better job with communicating along the way. Um so I I think that we accomplished that on October 30th as to why it took a while to get this up. this there was you know
again um there were some you know last minute kind of edits to make sure it's clear that I think a lot of the confusion lay with this is simply allowing us to begin the negotiation process with this it's not the actual the conveyance legally doesn't happen
until it's signed uh and and then you know as um attorney Dash said that there will be a separate council will be read into that the public will be read into that at at that time but we're just not there yet. >> Okay. The reason I asked is one of the people that was at the last town council
meeting um she said that she's still working with her um surveyor and that there's still a lot up in the air. She couldn't be here tonight because she had other plans, but she also pointed out that it wasn't on the agenda for I guess whatever you just
said. But it still seems like there's still a lot of questions up in the air. Well, I I think what what the concern was and that was articulated at the October 30th meeting was that we aren't at the you know, we will get this the
the survey just because folks show up in your in your yard with their equipment, that ain't the survey. They have to take that information and then turn it into an actual we're not there yet. We haven't finished that part. when we are finished that part um that will will be
shared with the affected land who can say okay your boundaries as you said it township are this our boundaries as we say it are this that's going to happen as part of the survey process getting to the contract deed process and so that's
this is simply we can't get there until we pass this resolution so there'll never be a survey if we don't ever get authorization to start that process us. >> Okay. Then my other question is, and maybe I missed it, I did not go to the envir that meeting because I do other
stuff besides town council meetings and planning and zoning. I do other things, believe it or not. Um, is this a Sorry, Margie, you confused me. Um, is this a trail, a recreational trail, or
is this something for the middle school kids to get to the high school for play practice or the big kids to go tutor the little kids? Like I am trying to get clarification on what your end result, your desired end result is. Yeah, >> sure. I understand. And I and I think
that um you know I was chided at the October 30th meeting probably fairly of referring to this this resolution just what's happening here as the middle school to high school trail. It's a component. It's part of it. It's not the
entire trail itself. This is a particular component that we need in order to do the overall project. Um but then as I the point I I I wanted to make at that particular meeting was let's say even if we can't do the middle school to high school trail the other the other
segments of it just aren't feasible then why would we do this right that's probably the question why would we I'll tell you why we do it right and that was we are taking 27 acres that right now are under very little deed restrictions I think you know Mr. Dr. Dyer did a very
good job of pointing out what are the deeds to that property that we have. There's no restrictions on use there. What this happens if we if if this the conveyed property gets to the New Jersey land trust, it is now under their protection and they have a a host of
restrictions in addition to restrictions that we can ask them for if we're ever allowed to get to that step. So at the end of the day, what we would be doing if and even if that trail doesn't happen, we've taken 27 acres and preserved it as open space. Open space is the number one priority as identified
in the surveys over and over again. And so I think it's a it's a heck of an accomplishment. Even if we'd never build this trailer, we've just preserved 27 acres of open space, which the public has repeatedly identified as their number one priority. So, it's kind of a
long-winded question answer to the question, but again, this is simply one component of the trail, not the entire trail itself. >> Okay. >> Joanne Scaly, Sparta. Um, I listened to the meeting online and Mr. Dyster said
that the second segment is a bigger fish to fry. then why not go with a bigger fish to fry rather than give our acreage away and in the master plan that you're doing now you can preserve that land so why not go that way and Sparta still owns it and it's still preserved
and my second question is that trail they spoke um about it it's leading from a playground to a school to a school so we'll have strangers walking from our playground and we'll have strangers parking at station park and it's already hard to park there uh then it'll be
going to our schools, which you want to protect. Um, then I don't know where it's going to loop around, but we want to protect our schools. We don't want strangers walking into the grounds. Who knows what they're going to do? We had so many school tragedies across uh the country. Um, this is not right. We don't
need a trail. Who wants strangers walking um where their kids are playing? Uh, we don't want people parking because once it's um within the state, they advertise it. So, people will come to go birding. They'll be parking up on the streets up there. People come to walk
that trail. They'll be parking in a station park. They'll be parking along West Mountain. It's dangerous. We don't need it there. We don't want strangers walking to our schools or our playground. And then they spoke about um who's going to monitor it during school hours. And they talked about maybe
they'll put restrictions from 8:00 in the morning till 6:00 at night. Then it should be a B project, not a town project. Why are we taking this on? the board of ed needs it. Let them do it. Um I don't see the need for it. It's wrong.
Um we should protect our land and keep it within Sparta. We do not need a trail there. Um I don't know why you're pushing this trail and even if it's a bigger fish to fry. Go with that end first and don't give our acreage away and then we can't go in that other loop
and we gave our land away. And then the land could be hunted. It can be everything. people, like I said, go birding, whatever else they do. Um, if there's hunters out there, they keep chasing down a wounded deer. We don't need this in town. We want to protect it within our town. Sparta is the best
stewardship of that land. Put in the master plan. Got to protect it. And another thing is about it wasn't online. A lot of people would have wanted to come here tonight. So, is it legal to do this if it wasn't notified to people that it's here? I suggest you table this
and let people that are interested in this have a chance to come and speak. Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to be heard on the resolutions? >> Uh, excuse Mr. Dash. Would you mind kind of giving an overview just a quick of
the difference of it being protected by the land trust as opposed to Sparta and it would be which would have more restrictions and and if and when it does happen
that it's notifi everybody is notified and the the process >> Yeah, I'd be happy to. So the the parcel of land that is between West Mountain Road and Station
Park, that is the land that the township would be acquiring from the land's trust that's currently owned by the land's trust. In exchange for that, we are giving certain parcels
to the lands trust. By virtue of that conveyance, the land's trust mission is to preserve in perpetuity the lands that they they own. The distinction
is that simply by virtue of a township designating lands as environmentally sensitive, open space, protected. Those terms, to those who have taken the
time to study the history of Sparta, have at times little significance. The ultimate assurance in preserving land is when the land's trust holds the land because their mission and their charter
to preserve in perpetuity. The idea that a land behind your house may be preserved may not. That may be today, but the history of the township has shown that there are environmentally sensitive lands. There are wetlands. There are
quote unquote open space that is subject to change. It is subject to development. It's not as easy to develop naturally as lands that may be zoned for development, zoned for commercial or residential
development. But it is not an absolute prohibition just by virtue of a lands being designated as open space or environmentally sensitive or wetlands. Wetlands can be developed on wetlands
can be filled in by virtue of transferring this these parcels into the hands of the land trust. Uh we have two main benefits. the land stays protected in perpetuity and we are able to control
the types of activities that happen on the land by virtue of deed restrictions. As the land surveyor for the township, Dr. Dra indicated at the last meeting, the current deeds to these properties owned by the township do not have protections by way of a deed
restriction. The history of the township has shown that absent absent deed restrictions written into a conveyance document negotiations between developers and those in council government who want to see protected land such as for example
our parks. Station park is owned by the township. There is nothing preventing the township from developing station park. Now, it may not be it would it would obviously shock the conscience to do so, but legally there's nothing preventing the township from taking a
park land and developing it. By virtue of placing these parcels into the hands of the lands trust, we are protecting in perpetuity with the restrictions that we would like to see from the lessons of history that we have seen by preventing
the logging, by preventing the hunting. Right? We are adding more protection to the stewardship of the lands trust who would have it posted and preserved than we are at the current stage. I believe that this would be an enhancement of the
vast majority of the township who has demonstrated through their survey results of the master plan that they want to see land protected. They want to see the town protected in perpetuity. And so long a long long way of saying this is a benefit to those who believe
in protecting rural Sparta in perpetuity. >> Thank you. >> And when we do if we do we can put the amount of of restrictions in that deed.
>> Correct. we can negotiate, we can we can propose any negotiation that is reasonable and within the charter of the lands trust to uh provide for and not only will the council have an opportunity to see the deeds. Any
document that's not privileged, whether it be pertaining to this matter or any other matter, is subject to the open public records act. The government is one of transparency. Any document you want to obtain can be obtained at any time within 7 days. So there will be the utmost transparency with respect to
every aspect of this project. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um so we're we're not at voting on that one yet. Um any other member of the public wishing to be heard on any other resolutions?
Okay. Um, so we'll go to uh I I'm going to try to handle some of these uh together as I usually do. Um, I would like a uh a motion to approve resolution 91, 92, 93, and 94. 91 through3 are dealing
with the cancellation uh tax. uh 94 is dealing with the extension of an interlocal services agreement between the township of Sparta and the Sparta Township Board of Education for a school resource officer. So the mot may have a motion to approve resolutions 91 through 94.
>> I'll make a motion to approve resolutions 9-1 through 9-4 inclusive. >> I'll second that. >> Okay. Um, so all those in favor of approving resolutions 91 through 94 say
I. >> I. >> I. >> All those opposed? >> Nay. >> Is there a particular ordinance that you are um opposed to a resolution? Sorry. >> Well,
yeah. To be candid, I I agree with you, Mayor Clark. um that these deeds the deeds that Mr. Dyster >> Yeah, we're not voting on that yet. >> What am I What are we to four? >> One to four. >> Yeah, this is just the tax uh the
cancellation of the tax. >> Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to another plan. >> There'll be another >> All right. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I'm I'm good. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. So, just so we're clear, we have uh four eyes for resolutions 91
through 94. and we'll take 95 and 96 separately. May I have a motion to approve uh resolution 95, which is a resolution of the township of Sparta authorizing the township's qualified purchasing agent to
award window contracts below the bid threshold of $53,000. >> Yes, I will second that. >> All those in favor say I. Can >> I ask a question here? >> Okay. Um, what was Mr. Murphy talking about when he was talking about the window
between 17,000 and 53,000? >> I believe uh former council mayor Murphy was saying that uh there was some uh overly verbal language implemented in there and he's referring to the 175 mark. It's also considered that that's
the threshold in which we refer to it as a pay-to-play threshold where we would have to collect information from vendors on the paytoplay. But in this instance, it doesn't necessarily have to be stated as paytoplay. You don't need the paytoplay bracket in there. It's just
that a lot of purchasing agents and people when we talk about 175, they'll refer to it as the paytoplay threshold. All right? And then the window is that threshold and our approved having the QPA allows us uh the threshold of
53,000. So that creates the window uh uh of this this contract this resolution which allows the QPA now to uh award uh the contract to to the vendors within that that area. And it doesn't have to come in front of the council every time
we do an expenditure in that window. And it just to clarify, it doesn't loosen up any protection for us for from applying or looking into pay for play. That happens anyway. This is just saying that the QPA will do this. Absolutely. And as long as in compliance with that, he or
she can proceed. Yes. Is that correct? Okay. >> Okay. Thank you for the clarification. >> Sure. >> Excuse me, mayor. Who gave the motion for 9-5? I heard I heard Deputy Mayor Murphy second it. I didn't hear who gave the motion. >> Okay. Oh, >> if you didn't, we'll then we'll we'll
we'll start again. May I have a motion to approve resolutions 91 through 95? >> No, no, no. Sorry. >> May I have a motion to approve resolution 95? >> I'll make a motion to approve resolution 9-5.
>> May I have a second, please? >> Second. >> All right. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Resolution 95 uh has passed. May I have a motion to approve resolution 96 which is entitled resolution of the township of Sparta, County of Sussex,
State of New Jersey, supporting and authorizing contract negotiations between the township and the New Jersey Natural Lands Trust, the trust for the acquisition of certain township lands by the trust in exchange for the conveyance of certain lands by the trust to the township. So, may I have a motion to
approve resolution 96 as read? I'd like to make a motion to table this resolution right now so we can notice the public and the interested parties can show up and we can do any finetuning that's on
this. I mean, I agree with you, Mayor Clark, that the deeds that Mr. um Mr. Dyster showed us the other day have absolutely no limitations and no protections. And and as Mr. Dash said,
you know, by putting it into the to the land's trust, land trust, we would be getting more protection. I read those deeds that were were proposed to go to the land trust and they didn't have anything and I know that was a sample
deed. Okay. But and they didn't have anything in there that talked about stop the chop or or or the taking down of of wood. >> Sure. Sure. Go ahead. Please help me out. >> Yeah, that that's that would be part of
the negotiations. We would put those terms into that deed as long and and any additional restrictions you'd like. >> Okay. >> Stop the chop, clear cutting, um anything aside from normal forest management practices would be prohibited.
>> And I also talked and one more one more point. I did talk to Jen, the one who was worried about the ribbons in her yard. and we have a ongoing conversation. I sent her copies of maps. She's out of town. I'm going to meet with her personally next week and go over it again. But I sent her aerial
images with all the dimensions and explained where where the ribbons were that she found in the field versus what's on the map. She's in a good place. We're both in a good place. >> Thank you. >> There was already an opportunity to
speak on the resolution. Well, he well he was clarifying a question of the council. >> Well, he he's involved with the he's involved he's a professional that's working on this right now. >> Yeah, he's not. So, >> okay. So, the reason I want to table is
because I would rather than have it to go go down to defeat and then we are nowhere. I just think we should go through this, give some notice to the public, talk about giving notice to all adjacent property owners to the subject
properties that are going to be conveyed and because that has not been done and there are people that aren't watching the shows or out of town or something and they should be noticed and and then put in language
such that you know the township of Sparta will public review of the deed restrictions and another vote on on the deed restrictions of you know some notice of of two weeks or 30 days. They should have that the public should be notified
as to what we are going to have in the conveyance and there should be they should have a right to uh speak on that. >> Well, I I think they will by operation of law. Yeah, there's no need to build
that in There will be an ordinance. Anytime a township has to convey land, it has to be done by ordinance. An ordinance, just as we have tonight, would be noticed on a first introduction and then there would be a hearing at which there would be documents on the
on the ledge that would allow for the public to view what the council is voting on. >> Yeah. And again, I think to repeat um over and over again, this is not a conveyance of land. This is not a conveyance of land. This is not a
conveyance of land. This is a resolution to allow discussions involving the conveyance of land. All affected property owners at the time that we would get down to the contract, we will give them an opportunity. I understand we and that's exactly what we reiterated
in our October 30th meeting uh where we did have we had more people there than we had at this meeting, most of which were made up of of the of the property owners. to explain that that um this is not a conveyance of land right now. This is simply to allow the negotiations and
uh as been demonstrated by Mr. Dyster, he's already in discussions with one of the affected property owners um to assure her and then at the time that we have the actual contract they the public will be able to see it and like I said they will be able to see what you know
what are the mets and bounds that we're talking about here and they can compare that to if they have their own survey and they can bring it to our attention. So there'll be plenty of opportunity for that. But um you know we tabled this already. We already had a 2hour over
two-hour meeting uh on this. I think you know this is again simply to allow the process to start because if we don't do this the process isn't starting. No no no work is going to be done on this trail and probably not any other ones until we can get this done.
>> Okay. With all due respect, the first thing I thought about when this came up was that if we passed this, we're just literally one signature away from conveying the land. >> We're not We're not
>> We're not I think I think Councilman Scott just has despite uh a prior meeting, despite our October 30 is still not understanding what we're doing here. What are we doing here? were simply authorizing us to begin the process of
engaging in negotiations with the uh the New Jersey land trust. No land is being conveyed, no contract, the terms of the contract is a totally separate issue. We can't even get there without passing this resolution. Um, and I think that we've made it clear that uh when those
negotiations start, of course, council will be involved because we can't we will have to talk probably in executive session because it involves an actual contract about what the terms of the contract will be. But once we have agreed on that, the public will see it and they can look and say, "Hey, I don't
like that provision in that contract. Can you take it out?" We do this all the time. This is what ordinance do. It goes through the same ordinance process. Um, but we're just simply wanting to be able to start that and and we just can't until we get this resolution. There'll
be, you know, to get the substance of what we do that's going to come up when we actually get through uh the conveyance process, meaning what what's the contract look like >> and and everybody will have a a chance
to look at it. This just starts the process >> and everybody will have a chance to to comment on it to it is for the the public to use. Um it's just part of the the trails that we'll be able to
recreationally enjoy. >> Yeah, I would just add too Mark this is I agree with I mean this has this will have to go through a lot of hurdles I know in my mind at least down the road to make sure it's legit and make sure it's protecting that land properly which I feel is important. I I would share your concern about
um getting more public input right now, but I feel comfortable knowing that the trails committee had a separate public meeting just recently for two hours. I'm not sure if you were there, I couldn't make it, but and this was Yeah. So, I feel more comfortable that that that dialogue is ongoing and that there was a forum there for people to express
additional ideas and questions and that needs to continue was, you know, if this is shady down the road, then I'm not going to, you know, be there either for it. So just to be crystal clear, if if the negotiations are worked out, >> there would be a reading of that
>> and then the next meeting there could be a vote to convey. >> Correct. >> That would be two meetings. Okay, I'm in. >> All right. Thank you. >> Nothing is >> No, I understand. Thank you very much. >> Sure. Anyone else with from the um DAS
about this? >> No, excuse me. Um, uh, Councilman Scott, would you like to withdraw your motion? >> Uh, yes. >> The motion table is withdrawn. So, we can take a vote. So, all those in favor,
we've had a firm, do we have a first and second? >> Why don't you just do it again? >> Sure. >> May I have a motion to approve resolution 96? >> So moved. >> Uh, may I have a second, please? >> I'll second. Uh all those in favor say I. I.
>> I. Hallelujah. Uh thank you. This is a first thing and um I look forward to actually being able to execute on what the public has told us time and time again they want. So um look forward to more discussion about this and like I
said we will be bringing the public along. Uh we are having a trails meeting to discuss better ways to communicate um about the trail um and their trail effort. so the public uh doesn't get uh doesn't view that they've been blindsided.
>> That's a good idea. >> Yep. >> All right. So, we are done with the resolutions. We are now up to council liaison updates and I will start
to my far left. >> Do you have any council? >> I have no report. >> Okay. I don't either since we haven't had any meetings and I haven't been to them. The one we did have Rev 250. >> Yeah, I I went to that. So, I'll I'll
talk about that. >> Okay. >> So, a couple updates. One, uh, business development committee, we met on October 23rd and reviewed and fine-tuned some of the ideas uh raised in prior meetings. And also we're planning for our next meeting
uh which happens to be the last one of the year in early December of hosting several members of the business community um to share their ideas, their experiences uh regarding how the township could better support and encourage business development. So more to come on that. U
second item is uh the master plan subcommittee. On October 29th, the subcommittee held a large-scale public input meeting at the high school. Uh it involved six of the subcommittee members,
um some people uh township employees such as Dory, Risha, Jim, um staff from our professional planners organization to help facilitate it and about 50 participants from the public. Uh it was a great really informative session. We broke out into five groups. We talked
for 45 minutes or an hour each going through different topics, asking for ideas, suggestions, um things that haven't gone right, but especially thinking more um 10, 15 years down the road, maybe even 20 about what Sparta should be like and look like. Um we
covered topics including things like housing and open space and business development and community amenities and traffic, etc. So, um it was really informative. We were happy how it turned out. We uh did receive some great input.
All that feedback is being consolidated now. It'll be added to the input that we got from the different focus groups we had. So with first responders and the police and the uh school board of ed and uh chamber of commerce and we're going to consolidate those feedback items and
the ideas that we received. Um it'll be presented at a uh future planning board meeting uh perhaps as early as the first one in December. But this is just again a step further in the process now as we are still collecting data and input but we're getting near the end of that where
we can actually turn it into a more of a strategic plan. That's it. Thank you. >> Um so we did have a uh Rev 250 meeting on November 3rd. Um at that meeting we um wanted to narrow down what are the
events that are actually happening, what are the events that are more than likely going to happen. Uh, I can tell you the first event that's actually happening is January 11th at 2026. Um, 12:30 to 2:30 at Crows. It will be the tavern talks. I think I've mentioned that before. Uh,
these are reenactors who will be at Crows. There'll be food involved. We um, there'll be tickets sold for that because we we have to limit it to I think 30 people is what Crows wants us. But um, these are the tavern talks have been happening all over the state. A lot
of this is done by um and and we're lucky to have as one of our members uh Ben the who's an award-winning reenactor. Um so he was able to get us a tavern talk. So that one's actually happening. Um February we're looking to
have a harps accordist who will play um you know colonial era music. We just got to find a venue for that but I think we're we're getting close to that. Um, in March there will be a Marthur Washington reenactor. Um, this will likely be at the Sparta Presbyterian
Church. Um, and you know, obviously the July 4th parade, other things that were, you know, getting close but don't have a definitive uh has to do with um and flag day. Uh, there'll be a separate event related to that. Um, also we learned
that the state Rev 250, um, you know, they have a traveling exhibit for to celebrate the 250th anniversary that the Rev 250 has. And they selected Sparta to be one of the hosts of this traveling exhibit. Uh, because we have a historical society. We've been one of
the more active um, townships in the entire state on this issue. So, they selected us. Um, and I think uh that will probably be at the historical society um sometime near the end of uh April uh between April and like May
12th. U but again I think that's a recognition of how Sparta is really taking the lead on on on red 250 and also to our historical society who does a fantastic job. Um and so we will be and currently we're working on communication
um and we'll use the same method uh that the historical society usually uses when they um publicize their events. We're going to use that for Rev 250 and um so they are we are working on that. Um but again, you know, many kudos to that uh
that committee who have been doing a lot of of good work. Um trails we've already spoke about. We had over a two-hour meeting uh just on the issue of this particular resolution. Um and did we have a meeting coming up where we're going to talk about um you know ways
that we can communicate so uh the folks in the public feel like they're being you know uh informed and um so we'll uh that's probably going to happen in uh next month sometime and we'll work on that. Um, I did attend a um is the
Sussex County Community College had the president's reception. Um, I went to that. Um, it was nice. I ran into uh former Councilwoman Quinn who gave me a tour of all the various things that the the Sussex County Community College is doing and it's really remarkable all the
classes that they have uh between you know EMS training to um culinary um and so they it's a really impressive um what they offer and so I encourage people to um you know support our community
college um they do a lot of good work Um, so that was very And then next thing I attended was the mayor's um breakfast that the county puts on. Uh, that was held in in Vernon. Um, I think I alluded to a discussion that I had with one of
the Vernon mayor about how they've done their beautifification committee. Um, and how they have gotten um, grants and other, you know, ways to support that. That was helpful. But one thing that came very clear in that every township right now, speaking Sussex County, is
getting crushed with health care costs. That's that that's not just, you know, Sparta. That's everyone. And they're all kind of scratching their heads, particularly for the towns that that participate in part of the state um health plan that becomes that is uh
um that is now insolvent. So, we're, you know, this these issues about budget and the driver of health care costs, you know, increasing the budget is is is not specific to Sparta. It's it's all over Sussex County. Um, and so we're all going to have to be faced. I know that,
you know, Byum's having a particular issue and they may face a different type of tax increase just because their budgetary constraint. So, we're all dealing with that, but everyone was kind of unanimous that the it's healthc care costs that are crushing us. Um, one point that was brought out was the um,
towns have a very difficult time trying to find like employees for different um, department say like DPW. I know there's folks in Still Water. She was it's hard to find them or if they come they don't stay too long they go to another township. And it's interesting there's
synergy there because when I talked to um Councilwoman Quinn, I thought she had a very good idea about um offering at the Sussex Community College training in these various departments that municipalities have. So we have a built-in workforce, right? If we have people coming out of the community
college already trained in what the DPW does, that's a pipeline. I thought that was an excellent idea. I hope she pursues it. Uh because I think that it's tough finding people qualified to do some of these jobs here. And so, um, I
thought that was a very good, um, idea. And so, with film, we don't have a meeting until, um, next week, Thursday, after the league. So, that is it for council
liaison updates for me. And Wreck is going to be in two weeks. >> Okay. Um, any unfinished or new business by anyone? >> I just would uh like to congratulate Councilman Elect Sylvester uh and
candidate Molly Wildsmith for their desire for public service. Um, it is rare and it takes a lot and for their hard-fought election campaigns. >> Okay. >> Anyone else with new or unfinished business?
>> No. >> Okay. I don't have any either. Um, none for me. Uh, we are now at the final open to the public session. So, anyone wishing to be heard of public comment, please step forward and be
mindful of the five minute limit. Joanne Scaly. Um, I always thought everything had to be uh online to let people know what's on the agenda and I just want to know if this is going to become common practice with this council to have things that were not online so
that people can become aware of them and come to the meeting if they're interested. Is it going to become common practice? And um, another question is um, Mr. Scott brought up that people should be noticed within 200 feet. I really think you should do that. That's a good thing.
But a lot of people don't come to the meetings. A lot of the elderly are not online. I think people should be noticed um certified noticed sent out to people within 200 feet of entire space. And I do think it was wrong to go ahead and
pass that. I know you're anxious to get it done, but it wasn't online and people would like to be here. So, I'm just wondering again asking you a question. Um, is this going to become common practice? But I never remember it happening. I don't know if it's even legal, but I never remember this
happening in the past. Is it going to become common practice? Will it happen again? Or can you promise it will never happen again, but you just said, Neil, that you want to keep the public informed. Well, obviously you did not keep the public informed tonight. So, that is my question. I don't know if
anyone wants to answer it. Well, I I can tell you that it was completely inadvertent and you know, don't ascribe to malice what what is really barely explained by simple oversight or I don't know why it didn't get earlier than it did. >> That was not the intent and so I I I
will take umbrage that you know implied in your question there's some intent to try to >> um >> No, I asked you will this be common practice? I didn't. >> Well, if it's inadvertent and it's an oversight by virtue of it being that it can't be a common practice and the answer is no. >> Why didn't you table it then?
>> Because we we explained why >> tabled it because it was inadvertent then table it. Okay. Thank you. >> Hey guys, Ronda again. Um, so listening to the discussion tonight about the the land swap and is it
protected, is it not protected? Um, and I it may be a wrongful misunder understanding, but I have thought that the land in in the trust is protected by Sparta by by the Spartan and controlled by the Sparta Town Council and and by
doing that it it limits the use to Sparta residents. My understanding is when it goes to the state, we lose that control. And now the state, you know, so for instance, if we if we gave them a ball field, you know, Sparta can't control who plays on our field any anymore. The state controls
it. So I just want to make sure we're, you know, is it really true that it's not protected? I I just always had the sense that it was and and you all up there are the stewards to make sure that nothing happens. And then there's an ordinance that, you know, take a look at
it if you could before you know we um really go into in-depth discussion. It's 2-61.4. And what that talks about is when you do a land swap from the trust, you have to gain land that's of equal size, value,
and comparable to the trust. So maybe I'm misreading that, but I I would like to have everyone's take on that, you know, before we move forward. So, so that's my thoughts. >> Thank you. >> Sorry I said I didn't have anything Jenny Derek's but I lied. Um
>> the land Jim that is being exchanged into the green acres does that require and this this came up in your comments. Does that require that we enter into a Rossi? >> No. Is the land itself going to be
considered or have the same restrictions as a Rossy would? >> Well, it'll be under the ownership of Green Acres and so it's not related to the Rossi. Okay. We do not have entered into any of that uh agreement at
all. So there they're they're two different concepts. >> Okay. I just wanted to clarify because you had made something in your comments made me think that. Thanks. >> Sure. I'm still on Northshore and I didn't change my name. Um,
when is Jim Jimmarg you might know when's the next council leaison meeting for Lake Mohawk? >> I know they've been busy with their >> hasn't been established. >> I know they're tied up with their annual meeting prep because that's on Sunday. >> Yeah. The reason I ask is you guys know
how neurotic I am with the traffic safety concern and issues with Northshore. Um, Victoria said that it the a meeting earlier in the year somewhere, I think it was like June, maybe July, that the concern that I
brought up to council and to liaison and also to Lake Mohawk regarding Northshore and the overwhelming amount of traffic on there, I was told that maybe it would be discussed at the end of the year. Then Victoria said, "No, not until next year because there's too much other more
important stuff going on like the water man which on West Shore which is done. The bridge I think they're wrapping up so they can get the construction done. They think they finally got the stuff with the D. What I'm trying to find out is will the
concerns that I've been bringing up for the last four or five years is that is there any realistic expectation that it will be discussed in the first half of the year with the town and Lake Mohawk. If there I know that there's been a lot going on at the town level and also with
Lake Mohawk. So I understand that it's not that I'm not the center of attention all the time or ever. But um sorry, I just want to make sure that that's still on the radar and it will be addressed in the first half of the year. Victoria told me, "Oh, I have no idea." And
that's up to the board president. So, I just want to know if you have any information on that. That's question one. And question number two is vacancies on planning and zoning. At the end of the year, there are, I think, three, maybe four vacancies that will be
on zoning and I believe four on planning. Is there a plan for appointing people to planning and zoning if you already have vacancies? And we'll have more vacancies coming up 1231 of 2025
because four vacancies on one of those boards is pretty big considering the fact that there aren't very many people on them and it's been a struggle since the beginning of August to come to an agreement on how to fill those and other
vacancies. So, I just want to make sure that that's on the radar so that we don't go halfway through with vacancies and relying on alternates to be voting on stuff just to make sure there's a quorum or that we don't run into a situation like we did with zoning
where we didn't have enough people for a quorum and stuff had to be punted to November from October. >> Thank you, Beth. >> Thank you, Beth. I think that when Councilman Sylvester joins us, many of
these issues will be cleared up. >> And I'm kind of tag on with the traffic. A huge I was at that meeting at the high school and the biggest concern that we kept hearing to the point that you guys had a traffic specialist is traffic is
one of the top two concerns in Sparta. If the planning board is working on the master plan, why are we not addressing a concern that affects 40% of Sparta and is also a private community? It's been on the radar. Not just me, but my neighbors and other members outside of
Northshore and Southshore have been complaining about the traffic. So I wouldn't it make sense that it's timely to address this and tied it in with the master plan and the Westshore bridge because Westshore traffic is going to be shut down for I think 3 months once they
start it >> when the bridge the >> the westore trail by the not the island but the one by the playground because if traffic if we're training people to not cut through Northshore on the middle in the middle of the street like they did yesterday. I'm okay with the Coke truck,
not the Pepsi truck, but the Coke truck is okay. Um because I need my Sprite. But it just seems like it's the perfect storm where you have the Westshore Trail Bridge coming out and the master plan and meet monthly or consistent meetings
with Lake Mohawk and the town. Why are we not addressing this when you guys are redoing the master plan and are focusing on traffic and have a traffic expert that spoke at the last at the meeting at the high school? Why are we not doing
this now? >> Are you raising it? Wait, wait, hold on. I'm just looking for why, you know, what progress we have and is there a plan to address >> outside the master plan process or do you want it part of the >> It just it just seems I've already I've been speaking with Celeste about traffic concerns and she knows that I've been in
touch with the county and the town and like Mohawk regarding traffic studies and why traffic was rerouted or reconfigured on Sparta Avenue. >> What I'm trying to get at is >> what I'm trying to get at Neil is where are we? Are we ever going to address
this or is it just going to keep getting pushed because there are a lot of other things going on? And I realize that my street is not number one, but it just I just want to know if there's a possibility to revisit this since they're addressing a traffic plan for when the bridge is out and the master
plan is coming up and the one of the county one of the roads is a major feeder into Northshore and Southshore and West Shore. So, can we bring this up or at least revisit with Lake Mohawk instead of, you know, hearing from Lake Mohawk? Oh, well, gee,
um, we all agreed maybe by the end of the year and no, we said it wasn't going to happen this year because there's too much other stuff going on and oh, we have no idea. We don't know what the agenda what's going to be on the time has expired. I think what I'm trying to get at is my understanding isn't part of
the master plan process traffic and traffic circulation and then as part of that it would make sense that you know the concerns that Miss Brick has should be addressed in that forum. I understand she's concerned that that, you know, that's just punting
it. But I think we're trying to put it in where it belongs, into the bucket it belongs, which is the master plan process, and not starting to kind of pick out, well, we're going to do traffic. You know, master plan's going to handle traffic, but we're going to pick out this particular one,
Northshore, and you you guys can do traffic, but don't don't talk about Northshore. We're going to handle that separately. So my point is I think by addressing it with the master plan posit addressing it with the with this planning board as you already have I think you're doing a great job of making sure this issue
stays first and foremost. >> Thank you. I just want to make sure that everybody's participating because all but eight of our roads in Lake Mohawk are considered private roads. And the gentleman that was at the meeting at
the high school didn't realize that there were that many private roads connecting. So he looked at me and I cuz I asked well how is it going to affect you know Lake Mohawk because Lake Mohawk is 40% of Spartans. Well, are they priv is it isn't it is it private or not or aren't they public roads? I was like,
"No, all but eight are private roads." And he had no idea. >> Yeah. So, Beth, thanks for your comments. I I know you're out of time, but the master plan process will look at traffic and circulation specifically. And that gentleman you met who is the expert, you know, he's we're still early
on in the traffic part and figuring out circulation vision. >> But also keep in mind that it's not going to get down to a road level, right? It's not going to just so you know so you're like it's not going to say here's our vision here's a circulation recommendation here's x y and z and it's not going to go down to
like a specific fix for one street's issues and we have to work with the lake mohawk community right they're going to have their so it's it's but I think it's on the radar I think you've heard that so um >> I'm sure you guys understand I've been at this for going on six or seven years
and chief you've been very patient with all of my whining and crying complaining about the box strike in the middle of the street at 6:00 in the morning on an S-curve. Um, but and I know that I can't say, "Well, I don't want this like from a town level." >> I understand, Beth, but like I've said before, it's a really a disservice to
our other members of the public to let you keep talking after your period because then it we're going to have to do it for everyone. I don't set up time then I'd be happy to speak with you Margie about this and we can go from there since you understand where I'm coming from.
>> Yes. Thanks, Beth. Right. See no one else. We >> mayor. Mayor, I'd like to address about the agenda about the item. >> Sure. >> Um I you I apologize. It was not put on at the time. I amended it for the executive session. I didn't have
>> the resolution. There needed to be edits on it. Um so I apologize that I didn't put that on. I didn't amend it back again on the website. Um, there is a notation at the bottom of all our agendas that say subject to change. So,
it's not common practice just to leave something off. I just wanted to to you know, I understand. >> I understand. I apologize. >> Nothing against you. I'm just wondering. >> Sorry.
>> Thanks, Roxan. >> Hey, thank you, Roxan. >> Thank you. >> All right. May I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. >> Uh, may I have a second? >> I'll second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. We are adjourned.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Happy Thanksgiving. feed a dog. >> Yeah, they've been they've been like