at the regular council meeting on Tuesday, October 14th, 2025 in council chambers, Sparta Township, Municipal Building, 65 Main Street, Sparta, New Jersey. The time is 7:05. All council meetings are now live stream and can be viewed at the following link,
www.youtube.comwpstreams. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided to the public and press on January 10th, 2025 by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice. Uh, Madame Clerk, may we have a roll call, please? Councilman Scott here.
Councilman Blumemedi here. Deputy Mayor Murphy here. Mayor Clark here. All right, stand up and salute the flag. Uh but before we do so, may we have a moment of silence for the ceasefire in the Middle East and for all the hostages
and all the victims of the Middle East war that is hopefully coming to an end and the families and the families. I pledge allegiance to the to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one
nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Um tonight, uh we have a proclamation. Um it is breast cancer awareness month. Um, and I can suspect that probably almost everyone in this
room has either been directly affected by breast cancer or know someone who has. Um, and so it's it is an unfortunate um reality. U but it's also one that has become increasingly um easier to treat and the prognosis is
much better uh due to the awareness and all the uh funding and information that has been focused on this uh awful uh disease. So tonight we have uh Romina Seia from the public health nursing Sussex County field rep and I will read the proclamation and then she'll come up
and and and get it from us. Breast cancer awareness month. Whereas the township of Sparta values the health and well-being of all its citizens and supports awareness of breast cancer which affects the lives of its citizens as well as their family members. And
whereas in the United States in 2025, it is estimated that more than 300 319,750 will be diagnosed. While deaths from breast cancer have declined over time, it remains the second most common form of cancer and the second leading cause
of cancer death overall among American women with a staggering 42,680 lives lost each year. And whereas funding for research, public education about symptoms, insurance coverage for diagnostic text testing, early
detection, and affordable treatment are the keys to fighting breast cancer. When caught in its earliest localized stages, the 5-year relative survival rate is 99%. Early detection and treatment methods have increased breast cancer survival
rates and there are currently over 4 million survivors. And whereas the goal of the organization and the local affiliate is to raise awareness of the impacts of this disease and measures for prevention and early detection among the citizens of Sparta.
Now therefore, be it resolved that the Township Council of the Township of Sparta does hereby proclaim that October is National Breast Cancer Awareness Month and encourages all residents and their families to increase their awareness of the symptoms and treatments
of breast cancer. Okay. So, uh, Miss Hia, would you please come up? Thanks. Neil Neil [Music] thank you so much. Hi everyone. My name is Roina. I am the field representative for the Sussex County Division of
Health. Um, every year more than 2 million women around the world are diagnosed with breast cancer and breast cancer does not discriminate. Um, it affects people of every background, age, and income level. Um, in the US, the percentage of women diagnosed with breast cancer has slowly been rising
over the past couple decades. And here in Sussex County, our breast cancer rate is about 140 women. um 140 cases per 100,000 women, which is slightly higher than the state average. Um so at the Sussex County Division of Health, we are
proud to offer the NJC program and NJC stands for the New Jersey Cancer Education and Early Detection Program um which is funded by the state and the CDC. Um through education and early detection, the CDC program works to help people understand their cancer risks and
takes action. Um, the Office of Public Health and Nursing offers cancer screenings um at our Wheatsworth Road office in Hamburg. Um, and it is for uninsured and eligible county residents. The clinic is by appointment only and includes a women healthy um health
testing, clinical exam, and follow-up mammogram. So, anyone who is interested um they can call the Office of Public Health Nursing at 973-579-0570 or they can visit the county website for um additional information. And we want to thank the township of Sparta for this
proclamation and helping us fight breast cancer. Yes. Thank you. Please get tested early and all. Of course. Absolutely. Yes. And this is for you. Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And thank you. I am a survivor and anybody here
offer my biggest love and warm. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you guys. [Applause] Hey, we don't have any minutes to approve tonight. So that means we go right to the manager's report. So Mr.
Zep, could you please provide us with the manager's report this evening? Good evening, mayor, council members, Sparta residents, whether you're joining us here in person or online. As township manager, one of the great honors I have is appointing new members
to our fire department. Last week, fire chief Ryan ODM recommended Mr. Harrison Demo for appointment. And I'm pleased to share that Mr. Demo has successfully completed all the necessary requirements. On October 7th, the fire department officially voted to welcome
Mr. Demo as a newest member to the fire department. We extend our heartfelt thanks to Mr. Demo for his dedication and commitment to serving the residents of Sparta. I'm also proud to recognize our construction department staff for their recent achievements.
Joe Serekia, fire sub code official, earned his building RCS license. Dimmitri Checker, plumbing subcode official, earned both building RCS and technical assistant licenses. John Weey, building subcode official, earned his mechanical inspector and construction official licenses.
These credentials strengthen our team's ability to serve Sparta residents and businesses with greater expertise and efficiency. Congratulations to Joe, Dmitri, and John. On October 10th, the recreation department hosted our first ever ghost
walks for students in grades six and up. Over 70 participants enjoyed a night of spooky fun with delicious food and refreshments provided by Homer's food truck and Brun Corn coffee truck. Special thanks to Allison Susman, Sparta High School drama teacher, and her
talented students for making this event memorable. On October 11th, White Lake Park was filled with Halloween spirit as we welcome children's ages 10 and under for our annual trunk or treat with more than 30 trunk volunteers, including members
of our ambulance, fire, and police departments and approximately 500 residents in attendance. It was a fantastic kickoff to the Halloween season. Green Beans was on site serving hot beverages to keep everyone warm. Our
seniors will be attending the Northstar Theater Company's production of Steel Magnolios on Saturday, November 15th in Ngensburg. Registration closes November 10th. Tickets are limited and available on a first come, first- serve basis. Tickets are $16 and the performance
begins at 2 p.m. To reserve your spot, register online or call the recreation office. The library remains welcoming thanks to bookkeeper Genevie Salonardo's decorations and gardening. Most computers are now upgraded to Windows 11. The rest will be done by the month's
end. September programs drew strong attendance, including moving screenings, French classes, yoga, ma jang, book talks, and virtual paint and sip. I encourage everyone to visit our library. Earlier this month, our public works department and paving vendor finished
milling and paving Balsam and Birch Parkways in the Lake Hawk Mohawk section of town. The only remaining capital improvement project for this year is the sidewalk improvement and paving of Main Street from the Route 15 bridge in front of town hall to the post office. Work is
anticipated to start next week pending the weather. Please anticipate possible delays and detours while these improvements are being done. Chief McCarrick will now present his portion of the report. This concludes my report. Thank you for your attention.
Good evening. Thank you, manager Zeb. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, councel. Um, Wednesday, October 1st, we had our annual coffee with a cop. Uh, I think it was our our best year yet. we got to see a lot of our regulars and and a lot of new residents come in, discuss some of the issues that they're facing and uh we
were able to better, you know, provide them some information and see where we could uh better divert some of our patrols with some of the issues that were that they are facing. Um I'd like to thank the library staff for hosting and Cloberry for um providing the coffee as a donation for this event. Again, as
a reminder, October 17th, this Friday, 6:00 to 9:00 p.m., uh we're hosting our annual hang heroes event. Um, this event will give the public a great opportunity to come out and and see everybody. Uh we'll have our first responders, our police, fire, EMS, our DPW, uh animal
control, our local veterans, our partners from the Center for Prevention and Counseling will be on hand to provide information about Clear, uh which is Community Law Enforcement Addiction Recovery, Operation Helping Hands, and additionally, there will be from 7 to 8:00 p.m. there will be a hidden and plain sight demonstration by
Ashley from the SE Center for Prevention and Counseling, which will take place inside the VFW. The American Red Cross will be out to provide information on their smoke alarm initiative and we'll have represent represent representatives from lead information on our junior police academy. Um we'll be handing out
free gun locks with our friends from be smart. The Sparta women's club will be there to speak about the vile life program. Spartaert team will volunteers will be there to speak about how they assist first responders when needed. Our school resource officer, Chris Favar, will have information on impaired
driving and a small course setup utilizing our new fatal vision goggles and carts. Uh there'll be live DJ, food, games, donut eating contests, cops, donuts. I mean, it makes sense, right? Um presentations um on plenty of uh and plenty of helpful information and
resource available. So um there will also be opportunity for individual drop off their unused or expired medication so we could properly dispose of it with the DEA. Um, and I really want to stress this year that we're asking for anyone who would like to to bring a non-p perishable item to be noted donated to
the Sparta food pantry as the food pantry has been assisting families for many years across our whole county and it takes a team to support them. Uh, hang with heroes like I said before is not just a children's event. It's an event for the whole community to come out and have a good night. Put your
differences aside and enjoy the night. Last thing I have is uh this past Friday, October 10th, our dispatch received a call for with concerns for um uh from a resident for an 18-year-old autistic female who went missing. Uh our patrols responded to the complaintant's
residence to gather information and quickly started the process of assembling more manpower for a search. The information received was that the missing female wandered off into the woods towards Riker Lake on Sparta Mountain. So relaying this information to our local law enforcement partners for more manpower and additional
resources was so important due to the late time of the day. It was about 3:00 and you know obviously we only have about three and a half four hours light at that time um and the magnitude of forest area to search uh where we believe the individual was. It was all hands- on deck with our office, our
department and we were lucky enough to find the young lady approximately 1.5 to 2 hours after the initial call. Detective Pletcher located her deep in the woods and and happy to see she was happy to see somebody. She was uninjured. Um I'd like to thank the
abundance of agency who on a drop of dime on a Friday afternoon uh assisted Sussex County Sheriff's Department, many of their resources up there and equipment. uh New Jersey State Police search and rescue, our Sussex County Prosecutor's Office, Maywood K9 unit,
our our very own Sparta of Fire EMS, and also our Spart uh members who are volunteers, too. Um everybody was on hand, and uh it was taken care of rather quickly, and I'm very proud of everybody. Um I'm glad that this young
lady is home safe and um it takes a team to get things like this done. I'm glad that we could come together on that and and make it happen. That concludes my report. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you both. And um congratulations to Mr. De Mo
who's now a member of our fire department. Um also uh thank you chief. I know that family is extremely relieved. Uh I can't imagine the the kind of how scary that is to not know where your child is. Uh, but thank you and to all you and everyone who reached
out and and and helped find this young lady and we're very lucky to live in a community that can put all hands on deck um to help relieve um a very scary thing when your child goes missing. Right. With that, uh may I have a motion to
approve the manager's report? So moved. May I have a second, please? I'll second. All those in favor say I. I. I. Uh the manager's report has been approved. Uh we're are now up to our first public comment period. Um and this is limited to items that are not on the
agenda. So if you see something on the agenda like an ordinance or a resolution that you're interested in talking about it, now is not the time. There will be other times uh during the course of our meeting to speak on that. So this is for items not on the agenda.
Question. Is it about an item that's on the agenda? there is a issue with something that's on the agenda that has incorrect information that's on the agenda for this evening. Okay. So the time to do that is um at
our next public um comment period because this is limited to items that are not on the agenda. So we try to follow that. I I understand that completely. Is that prior to moving of resolutions because the that was is the public comment section honestly it's the first time I'm speaking meaning
I'm asking the instructions because I don't want the next one is before the resolution. Okay, that's what I need. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Exactly. Okay. Any other uh comment about items that are not on the agenda? Uh Joanne Scally, Sparta, New Jersey. Um
just addressing a social media post that you posted on. I shouldn't um be shocked anymore, but I am shocked by this post on uh Sparta. happening uh pertaining to Beth Broadick's uh nomination to the planning board. It was very insulting to one of your
constituents um that's dedicated and what you wrote is uh to Beth tagged her in it. I'm happy to tell you directly why you would not be a good fit for planning board or zoning board. You could talk to me directly. You know how to reach me. Why do you think that that is appropriate on a social media post
for all the public to see to call someone out and tell them why they're not fit? and why you're the one person, but two people thought she was fit. Are you um thinking that you're on a throne and you could tell who's fit and we have two people that thought she was fit? But
why call her out on social media? That is disgusting. It's ignorant. It's not professional. And again, I'll ask for you to resign because you've one too many times. And again, I thought I was never going to be shocked again, but you
did. But I am shocked again. that was all-time low to call someone out on social media. Again, I think you should apologize to many people and it's just wrong. And I go back to the nominations when you had a quorum. I still think it
was a quorum and I still think that somehow um our town attorney would tell you to um nom it would be alternate one or two, but that time he didn't say alternate one or two. He didn't advise you. It's not a coincidence in my mind. It
maybe might be one, but I still think that death should be on the planning board. She was nominated um with a quorum. And the main thing about this is a social media. You calling someone out in social media.
And that's about all I can say. Okay. Thank you. And did you ever look at the YouTube of April 22nd? What's that? the YouTube of April 22nd that you promised like a month or two ago that you were gonna look at. And what was the purpose of looking at that? Forget it. If you're I have no respect
for me asking you that, then forget it. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Jody. And I'll just say that the reason why I made the comment that I did is if if you're going to question why I did not um you know advance Miss
Brick's um and we're questioning that I I will comment on that. Um so no your time is expired. This is not this is not an argument. No five minutes is not up. My thing is not that you commented back to what was beyond there. You could have commented
to her prof uh privately. You had plenty of time since what it was a month ago, a month and a half ago that she was nominated. You had plenty of time to get in touch with her, but you chose not to. And you chose to call her out on Facebook, social media, which was not
professional and should not have did that. Again, it it is beyond me why you would think that'd be okay to call out someone. That is embarrassing to her. It's degrading to her. And it's not right to these two other to um
Councilman Murphy and Scott that you would tell them and you should apologize to them too. Okay, that's all I have to say. Thank you. Yeah, my intent was obviously not to um hurt someone's feelings. So, I apologize
if it it hurt your feelings. Uh I was simply saying in response to someone questioning me. So, yes, sir. And this is an item that's not on the agenda at all. Correct. Robert Moss and Bloomfield. Um, actually that's the question. My
first question. I understood it was on the agenda, but it's not going to be addressed tonight. That's Sparta Mountain. Uh, yeah, we will be I'll get to that, but that that's we're going to be tableabling that, but um Well, should I wait till then and because it's not on the agenda, so I thought I could.
It technically is. So, you can at the time of public comment related to resolutions, you could do it. Okay. Okay. Anyone else for public comment for an item that's not on the agenda? Hi, Mike Divine Sparta. I hope this is appropriate. I I didn't know about the
lost woman, but I think what I heard of how that the chief and his people coordinated this entire response so quickly, successfully. That's an extraordinary gift to our township. So, I'd like to echo the mayor's thanks for what you did. It's really extraordinary.
Well, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else for public comment for items that are not on the agenda? Okay. Seeing none, we'll get to the expenditures. Deputy Mayor Murphy, would you please read the expenditures for
October 14th, 2025? Yes. The total expenditures for October 14, 2025 are 1,314,75143. May I have a motion to approve the expenditures as read? So move.
May I have a second, please? Second. All those in favor say I. I. I. The expenditures for October 14th, 2025 have been approved. Um we have a fair amount of ordinances to get through introductions and in hearings. Um so
we're turning to that portion of our meeting uh right now. First off, um, Madame Clerk, could you please read the title of ordinance 2517? Mayor, did you want to go over resolution of the resolution?
Oh, do we need to do that at I thought we would do that at the resolution part. Do you want to do it before? Because I can go and and and for the resolutions, I can do 910 first and then 91 or I can do it now. However you I think that that needs to be done before we do the
ordinances 9-18. Well, we're doing ordinances now. I mean, um, right. I'm saying is aren't I thought you were going to do you need to go to the resolutions? Does that last resolution need to happen before we introduce this ordinance? Is that the question?
Oh, okay. That's what I wasn't understanding that the resolution corresponds to an ordinance, not another resolution. So, in order to do the ordinance, we need to do the resolution for just for 25-18. Got it. Okay. So, we'll we'll do that then. So, um based on the instruction
from our clerk, uh we do need to go a little out of order and handle uh resolution 910 and 91 before we do ordinance 2518. Okay. So, may I have a motion
to approve resolution 91, which is a resolution authorizing an addition to the 2025 capital budget pursuant to NJSA4A 4-44? So, I have a question. Do we need to open it to the public for those two
resolutions before we do them? You you could do that and you should do 910 first and then 91, but you could open it up to the public. Uh because we usually generally do that before a weird situation just for those two. All right, these two.
So, does anyone have public comment on resolution 910 and 91? Okay, see no one. And the order is 910 first then 91. There you go. Got it. Okay. So, actually, may I have a motion uh to approve resolution 910,
which is a resolution authorizing the cancellation of unexpended and dedicated balances of general capital appropriations. I make a resolution motion to approve resolution 910. I second it. Uh all those in favor say I.
I. Resolution 910 is passed. Now we go to 91. Uh, may I have a motion to approve resolution 91, which is a resolution authorizing an addition to the 2025 capital budget pursuant to NJSA4A
4-44. I make a resol motion to approve resolution 9-1. I'll get it right later. And may I have a second, please? I will second. Uh, all those in favor say I. I. I.
I. Sorry. So, resolution 910 and 91 have been approved and then we'll get to 2518 and it's proper numerical sequence. So, now madame clerk, may I have uh may you read uh title of ordinance 2516
2517? Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm on hearing. That's okay. I had to go back and for Sorry about that. We're 2517. U can you please read the title of ordinance 2517? an ordinance of the township of Sparta, county of Sussex, state of New Jersey, establishing an advisory
beautifification committee within the township. All right. May I have a motion to introduce ordinance 2517? I make a motion to introduce ordinance 25-17. Uh, may I have a second, please? I will second.
All right. Before we go to local any discussion on 2517, even though we try to avoid discussion on introductions. All right. May I have the 2516? That's a hearing. We're only at the introductions now. Okay.
Okay. Um, all those in favor roll call vote on 2517. Councilman Scott, yes. Councilman Lumemedi, yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. So, uh, ordinance 2517
will be introduced that is dealing with the Sparta beautifification, uh, committee that I alluded to in prior meetings. So, we're very excited about getting this, um, committee underway and do encourage folks to to apply uh, via
our website. Um, and in two weeks, we'll have a hearing uh, about it. Next up, may uh madame clerk, can you please read the title of ordinance 2518? An ordinance appropriating the total sum
of $90,000 from general capital fund balance for funding digitizing and archiving paper files or purposes by the township of Sparta in the county of Sussex, New Jersey. Okay. May I have a motion to introduce
ordinance 2518? I will make a motion to approve ordinance 2518. May I have a second, please? I will second. Um, Madame Clerk, may I have a roll call vote? Councilman Scott? Yes. Councilman Bli?
Yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy? Yes. Mayor Clark? Yes. Uh, ordinance 258 has been introduced and in two weeks we will have a hearing on that. Uh, next up, madame clerk, could you please read
the title of ordinance 2519? an ordinance of the Township of Sparta, County of Sussex, State of New Jersey to ban smoke shops and vape shops as a principal permitted use in any zone district and to regulate restrict the sale of cannabis derived products within
the township. Okay. May I have a motion to introduce ordinance 2519? Right. I'll make a motion to introduce ordinance 2519. May I have a second, please? I will second.
Okay. Um, so this is simply the introduction. We will have a full hearing um in two weeks hence. So, uh, may I have, Madame Clerk, may I have a roll call vote? Councilman Scott, yes. Councilman Blumemedi,
despite the title, no. Deputy Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark. Yes. So the uh we will uh 2519 has been introduced and in two weeks we will have
uh a hearing on that particular ordinance. We are now up to a hearing uh on ordinance 2516. Um so we're not just introducing this one. We're having a hearing on it. Uh madame clerk, could you please read the
title of ordinance 2516? an ordinance of the township of Sparta amending the salary ordinance for non-union and union employees. Okay, I will because we're have a hearing. Uh does any we have to open to public comment. Does anyone want to be
heard uh specifically on ordinance 2516? Jenny Derek's tap into Sparta. At the last meeting when this was introduced, I asked if we could have the information about the delta. What is the change uh in this
uh table of the of salaries versus what was in the past and further who decides where the uh employee falls within that range? Hi Jenny. Hi.
I'll take this one. I prepared a statement because we had when we introduced it, I know there were some questions about salary ordinance. So, I have the statement here and we can go off of that. This year's salary ordinance has been adopted in accordance with the New Jersey Pay and Benefits
Transparency Act, which requires all employers with 10 or more employees to publicly disclose salary ranges and general benefits for all municipal positions. The ordinance is designed to promote workplace equity, transparency, and fiscal responsibility.
The ordinance establishes the minimum and maximum salary ranges for all township positions, including elected officials, management, union, and non-UN employees. These ranges are set to ensure compliance with state law, reflect negotiated union contracts, and
incorporate annual cost of living adjustments and minimum wage increases. Not all positions are currently filled, but any hiring transfers or promotions must adhere to the established salary ranges. Additionally, the ordinance is submitted
to the Division of Pensions and Benefits as it may affect pensionable salary ranges and retirement compensation for eligible employees. Some positions may have higher maximums due to long-erving staff who have dedicated many years to our community. This ordinance was
introduced on September 23rd and is up for adoption after tonight's hearing. Once adopted, it will assist to guide our staffing and budgeting decisions for the coming year. We remain committed to transparency and responsible government. And if you have any questions or would like further details, please feel free
to reach out to my office. Um, when it comes to Delta, you're looking for an answer of what the changes were. Um, there wasn't a blanket delta on on the salary ordinance, uh, each title is is basically looked at and then we look at
the employees who are in those titles and then we make sure the ranges are accommodating those employees. Um, uh, Councilman Blummedi had asked questions behind, uh, why some titles seem to be h have much larger ranges to them, higher ranges than what you would expect for
the title. And that was generally attributed to the employee themselves because they've been here for over 20 years and their salary has been accumulated that high. So you would have that salary being accommodated appropriately. you have the cost of living adjustments and if a sal if an
employee had uh acquired that cost of living adjustment and it brought them out of that range then the range was adjusted accordingly. What we try to do is anticipate and give a little buffer on those ranges so not everybody's hitting the high range and we also have the lower range so when we're hiring we
have a starting point as well. Um I I hope that answers the questions that the public has when it comes to the salary ordinance. uh it is public information and and you can see this and and again you're you're welcome to contact me for for any other questions.
So do I need to opra the the last year's I I know you do this every year or thereabouts. So my question it's actually a little different this year because that that new act the the pay and benefits transparency act uh were just enacted now which requires us
this which we've already done. Most towns will do it for transparency. Um Jenny, I'm sure I'll provide whatever it is we we Okay. I'm just looking for what they were last year and what they are now this year. What the ranges were last year, what the ranges are this year. I'm not looking for individual. I
I can but that's that was my question. I I'll get it to you. Thank you. Um managers, the ordinances are on the website. So if you go back, you can see salary. Yes, the ordinances are on.
You're welcome. Thanks, Roxan. Anyone else from the public wishing to be heard on ordinance 2516? Okay, see no one, I'll take it back to council uh for discussion and comments. Is any member of council wishing to be
heard on 2516? Okay. No. All right. Uh, no comment or discussion. Um, may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 2516? Make a motion to adopt ordinance 2516.
Uh, may I have a second, please? Second. Um, Madame Clerk, may I have a roll call? Councilman Scott? Yes. Councilman Bli? Yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy? Yes. Mayor Clark. Uh, yes. Right. 2516
has been adopted. Um now we are up to the public comment period that's dealing with resolutions. So if you have a comment that you would like to make uh about a particular resolution uh please do so now. Thank you for clarifying. Sure.
Den Rogoff Sparta. So I'm speaking tonight in um regarding 9-9 which is the resolution um to the acquisition of certain township lands. So, I arrived home late last week to
find survey stakes in my yard. Um, so at which point I was at work. They came on my property. They surveyed a good chunk of my property. They placed stakes and ribbons through my backyard and the yards of my neighbors. And so, um, I was
lucky that one of my neighbors who was home that day, I started reaching out to find out, does anyone know who was on my property when we weren't home without our permission or any notice. Um, and one of my neighbors thankfully had approached the uh, surveyors and found out they were there from Dystra. And so
my husband, this was on Friday. So on Monday, my husband called down to Dystra and they explained that this was part of this ordinance and this transition of land from one entity to another from Sparta Township to this land trust. Um,
and it is the parcel directly behind my property. However, we were able to provide our survey and there seems to be a significant discrepancy as to where the property line is. I do have a copy of my certified survey with me this evening, but I am respectfully asking
that you table this until we get through this discrepancy with the survey company. Um, and also that we have more information. I I didn't know what it was about. I did contact Mr. Zep's office. Um, his secretary was able to provide me
with some general information. She was very helpful. Um, I went online trying to find more information. um being that the entire rear border of my property is exactly against this land and I had zero
notification that that property was affected that any of this was happening. Um I'm over a mile and a half from the high school, even further from the middle school, yet this is directly in my backyard. Um I did find some
information just because my property is immediately adjacent. um guidelines for conveyance of land for the New Jersey Natural Lands Trust. In their own guidance, it says all property owners within a 200 ft of the property proposed to be conveyed. Um any group having
expressed interest in the property proposed to be conveyed, the individual or group or who donated the property to the trust. Um any governmental agency or agencies involved in the original conveyance. Verification may be done by means of certified mail notice with return receipt requested. There was no notice. there was no notice that they
would be surveying the property adjacent to mine, let alone that they would be entering my property when no one was home. Um, so at this point, um, we did inform, um, the professionals at Dystra that there seems to be a discrepancy in the property line. I do have a
photograph on my phone that shows where they put a corner stake and a secondary flag. The secondary flag is actually where the marker is that our survey when we purchased the home um, was placed. Um, so we have a marker there that shows it is well the that that their markers
are well within our property. So, okay. Um, I don't I don't want to I have answers for you. I just want to make sure I'm not interrupting. No, no, no. Okay. Yeah. Uh, so first off, um, I understand why you'd be concerned. I get it. Um, I want
you to understand what we are doing tonight. What we are doing tonight is not entering into a contract with New Jersey land trust to convey land that township owns and and then conveying that. All we're doing is authorizing the
council to begin discussions of entering into a contract uh with New Jersey Land Trust. There's still a contract to be entered into and still a deed. And it's at that point that there will be very specific um you know description and I
can bring in uh Doug Dystra to explain um you know where the property lines are. All we're doing all we're doing tonight is authorizing us to do that. no land and and and to be also to be clear in no event would anyone's private
property land be conveyed right like you have to that's why we did it by lot and block and so um but what I will do is uh when we it's going to take some time to you know start working on these contracts and all that stuff all that's all we're doing tonight is to authorize
so we can start doing that um Mr. Dyer is aware of the the issue um and will be you know we'll you know make sure that you know reassure you this happens in these conveyances. Um what happens a lot of the time I'm not saying this is you
um people whose property abuts preserved land often use that preserved land to put stuff in and I'm not saying that's you but it it's called an encroachment right they encroach on it and all of a sudden they're like wait a minute I thought I own that 20 ft. It's like, "No, you don't." And they we can work
those things out where you have what you think is your property. The land trust has or we have what we think is our property and we can hash all that out. Um uh it I don't think we need to delay the process. And I just be assured that your issue will get addressed. You will
um and nothing we're doing tonight somehow affects your rights or anything else. And um my understanding uh attorney Dash is when you just do the resolution that we're doing, there's not a notice provision required, right? Yes. Correct. So ma'am, your concern is
taken well taken and rest assured as the mayor said that the township will not exchange or transfer any properties that include portions of your property. I understand your property abuts lot 46, block 26001.
And as the mayor said, rest assured that the township will not be conveying any portion of your of your property. Number one. Number two, um the action taken tonight is simply an endorsement of the process. It's not a conveyance of your property. Yeah. And I understand that. And I
honestly I figure they'll figure out where the property line is. That isn't my concern. My concern is that all of this is happening and I live right there and I had zero information and I can't be the only one that had no information. And so there's some neighbors here
tonight who also didn't know. So I am once again asking to respectfully not move forward tonight until more information is provided to the taxpayers of Sparta. Why are we giving away 28
acres in exchange for a 5 acre pack to make a path? I don't want the kids walking on West Mountain. West Mountain's dangerous. But at the same time, I don't know why we're giving away 28 acres of land. If you look at what they did in Vernon, they built a boardwalk. They found ways to work with
the wetlands, the Highlands, and all of these different organizations. And this seems like we're giving a lot away to get a little bit of permission to make a path. And I don't think that you're at the point just based on the information that I was able to find and the fact
that the surveys aren't even correct to start the process. Um I don't think you're at the point where you should be entering it into an agreement until you have more information to provide to the public. Uh some type of public information. I I was trying to reach through things and I found like there
was like a a a notice I found on Facebook of a an October 3rd Zoom meeting with like a password. I don't even know what time of day that meeting was or anything. I would have never to look for a land trust meeting on October 3rd. This wasn't anywhere on my radar.
Um so I and I'm sure I'm not the only resident of Sparta that was unaware and is now really interested because I think the potential to have a path between the schools tremendous. But at at what expense to I I want the land near my home to be governed by Sparta, the
people who live here and care about Sparta. I don't want the state controlling the land adjacent to my backyard. They don't have the same interests as the people who live and reside in Sparta. And I at this point want the land to stay with Sparta.
Okay. Um so that's first of all um one we're not entering into an agreement. what what we do tonight is simply allowing the process to unfold which will once that process is able to unfold we'll be able to
address the issues that you're concerned about and so we're not at the stage yet where we're passing a resolution to actually enter into a contract for the conveyance this is simply to begin the discussions with New Jersey trans New Jersey land trust to put into a contract
those uh properties now the the the you know I understand people's concern. You're giving you're getting five and you have to give up 25. Well, one that's a a product of what the New Jersey land trust requires. Also, this land that we owned is environmentally sensitive, not
developable. Correct. Right. So, it's not like we can it's not developable. And what this does for the New Jersey Land Trust is that they already have uh preserves back there. Uh unfortunately, it's sort of broken up between what the township owns and what
they own. And this allows it to be contiguous, right? That's why they want it to be that way. Um, and that again, they're the land trust. It would they're not going to then go turn around and say, you know, let's go put a stadium uh on the New Jersey land trust. That would, you know, violate their charter,
all kinds of things. They are interested in keeping preserved land preserved. And so if you you know the fact that the state has it now uh frankly actually probably safeguards it more than if a township does because a township can always decide well heck we own this why
don't we put some developable property there. So in any event now is not um you know the time we we will get into that. There will be more more ample opportunity uh for your concerns to be raised. Um but you know we have to get
the process started. Um there's probably a reason why trail stuff has been stymied for over 20 years is because constantly roadblocks and it takes a lot of work and this is just one property right for every trail there's you know
could be five other bis private property owners who bought that and you have to deal with those issues when we get that it's a lot of work um but we need to get moving on that and again no one's rights are getting waved or violated tonight by what we do um before we enter that contract. All those issues will be
fleshed out. Uh and and plenty of notice about uh and again it was put in the agenda on Friday. That is the we complied with our public notice provisions. I I know that's probably not sufficient for you. Um but again, you
know, now knowing I we'll be sure to hey on tonight's agenda is the contract for actually conveying this land. We'll make sure uh that folks know about that. The language in here does say for recreational and public use on on the document that you provided for
tonight's meeting on the resolution itself. Okay. So that would be a concern just based on the fact that we purchased the home because it was preserved land that could never be built on. And you mentioned also trails in your statement which also
that's developing on preserved lands if you intend to not for your property. where your property is located is actually um wetlands back there. Yeah, it's called compensation partial B lot 46 block 26001. That's not where the trail's going.
Okay. So, the trail your T is talking about is only the path from the middle school. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So, that clarifying you said trail and that Yeah. And the and this is what we were giving to New Jersey Land Trust. They have no interest in building trails or they just want to keep it preserved. They It's you know, it's got all kinds
of environmentally sensitive stuff there. So they're not interested in, oh, now that we have this, let's go put a racetrack there. That's that's not what's going on. No, I'm not worried about them building development. It is preserved land regardless of who is the governing body. But Exactly. And they're they're there is
they're probably more committed than any township is to keeping preserved land. In fact, that's their whole reason to be is to keep land preserved. So, um, frankly, you know, uh, if if your interest is in preserving land, it's probably in better hands with the New Jersey Land Trust than it is for
individual municipalities. So, that brings up a good question, though. Does uh, it could possibly what happened in is what's happening currently on Sparta Mountain with the chop happened here on
this property? No, because that is state. Yeah, this is it's it's for conservation purposes and so um you couldn't all of a sudden start bushwhacking the you know the the New Jersey land trust property. That's why I wanted it owned by Sparta
and not the state right there. So, and also is it it it should be can we put somewhere that that all the residents be notified that there may be someone coming to their
property to crazy to survey. I mean other than just Yeah. I came home to find stakes and ribbons like literally that would concern me. Is there some way we can notify these people before they go out there to do this?
everybody within 200 ft. Well, that that becomes quite expensive. Uh I we do that with so we we'll it's in the rules. I mean that's that's part of the land trust that's in conveyance of land for their guidelines. We haven't conveyed it yet.
So this I mean the resolution and then you know the process it says within the land proposed to be conveyed. So that's yeah proposed to be conveyed but we're not we're not conveying any land. we're we're authorizing to enter into discussions about the conveyance of
land in a contract. So, it's I know it sounds technical, but um you know, we're we're just trying to advance the ball here. You know, this is something that the town that the community has been clamoring with for a long time and it's it's it's gotten styied and
gotten roadblocked and objected to and we're trying to make that happen. And rest assured we will we will bring in the the appropriate no pun intended stakeholders um so that they are able to uh you know when the time comes to actually convey
it. Uh but if we keep delaying and trying to make it you know uh the good you know perfect the enemy of the good then we're we're just never going to get anywhere. This will never happen. and it it takes a lot of work and I I just ask for the the the community's
patience um and understanding here that we are really trying to do the best we can to advance the ball. I understand I will I will talk to uh Mr. Dystra and say look you know if you have to do some more surveying can you just maybe let the neighbors know ahead of time you
know put a note in their door or something um you know so that they know that hey there's going to be some surveyors on your property. Um and so we can alleviate those concerns. I I wish there was an opportunity for
public information about the exchange of land and were there other options explored. There will be. So I can tell you that um Doug Dystra is, you know, a professional surveyor for decades. Yep. And so for that middle school to high
school trail, he had to be very careful of how to draw the trail, right? because there's sensitive private property, wet lands, etc. And he picked the path that was the most reasonable path, the most feasible one. That's why we chose what
we chose. So this idea that we could just pick any kind of um land, you know, do this one, do that. We could maybe, but then we couldn't have done that. The trail wouldn't have worked. it wouldn't have been able to follow the path that it needs to to to find in order to be
sufficient buffers from the wetlands etc etc. So he he picked the most reasonable um path that he could. Um so that's why you can't just throw up whatever alternatives you have to say okay what would be the most reasonable path based on the buffers based on private property
owners etc. and that's what he chose based on his experience and and training. You did post um a propo I don't know if it's a proposed path but you a photograph that had an outline of a path that went from the middle school and it crossed West Mountain went you know what
picture I'm talking about. Is that the proposed path? It's proposed at this point. Yes. But cuz that shows a second crossing of West Mountain Road near the intersection where there's an accident every week at the top in between the bus depot and the
corner. Another that's where the path would cross West Mountain, not where the lighted cross is down by the school. Well, at this point, we're a way off from that. We're probably years, frankly, for that. That that that's the
last portion of it. So you're saying move forward with this because this is the proposed plan and don't halt it when you're but that and that brings up a whole another safety concern. Well, we now is not the time to address it. One, we're not conveying any land, right? It's not we're not entering right
now. This is a proposal and we can bring in uh Mr. Dystra who can explain the trail and path and why he chose what he chose uh and why it's the most reasonable. Um but I I don't think we should let you know sort of future fears
or what may happen stop the progress now because if we do that now is giving the state 25 acres of Sparta owned land that if you're interested in having it preserved that's a good deal.
I would like to believe that I have trust in the people of Sparta the people who live here. That's what I would like to believe rather than people in the state that don't reside here and don't know about our beautiful town.
But then we would have to pick for that path. What happened was that path intersected on land that the New Jersey Land Trust owned. We'd have to redesign the entire path. We'd have to find a path that doesn't touch on any New Jersey land trust property. That's going to be very difficult because most of
that area back there possible. Maybe difficult. Well, maybe it's worth exploring. Well, maybe, but uh like I said, there there will be a time for that. So, I've I've gone way past your five minute time, and so I need to respect the other
members of the public who have to stick to five minutes. Are they go you go over that at the trails committee, right? Yes. When are those meetings? Uh they are usually they've been varying because people have missed them, but they're usually on the third Thursday. But um we
have your information and I'll invite you and um if you want to give me a list of the the the property owners that are concerned, simply just uh let me know who they are and we can invite you to the Yeah, there's many more that were concerned. We only found out this afternoon and people were shuffling like
we don't have babysitters and someone's wife was working and like everyone was like I said I'll go. Um, but yeah, it's all of Old Cedar, Milstone, uh, Sunrise, Heather, Meredith, all of that blocks that entire path. Okay. So, maybe the thing to do is we'll
we'll invite you to our um our third I mean, it's open to the public anyway. Um, is it an evening meeting? Is it? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, we'll, you know, I'll make sure you you know about it and then whoever you want to uh wrangle up to attend can attend. Okay.
Mayor, it's here. Yes. In the conference room. Yeah. in the conference room. Uh, mayor, uh, if you could, um, email me. I'm the township clerk. Absolutely. And then I'll forward your information to our mayor. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, good evening everyone. Uh, my name
is John McNabel. I reside at 51 Old Cedar Drive. Um, based on what Jen I'm I'm the mysterious man she referred to. I did see Dystra doing the surveys. I just want to enter that into the record in case he says I tried I tried I tried
to do something with regard to notification. I'm here to tell you that I didn't personally receive any notification and I believe under New Jersey statutes I didn't bring the references that a legal land surveyor is required to make more than a good faith
effort to notify when he's entering private property. So I'd like you to discuss that with Mr. Dystra. And again, I was just here to say that uh I am the mystery man. And if there's questions
about Dyster having tried, uh he didn't make an effort at my front door. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, John. Thank you. All right. Anyone else for public comment on the resolutions? Yes. Uh good evening, everybody. Uh
Christopher Bali. I'm on Greenfield Hill in Sparta. just about this 9.9 as well. Uh I'm just council I'm just not following the path because I work from home. Uh I go in and out often. I came home and also saw on my front lawn on Greenfield Hill which is 2 miles down
West Mountain um on the right side of the road. So the mine is behind me. Uh I saw on my hub which is the Dystra hub. Uh when I bought the house do from Joe Natali 20 years ago. There's a hub on my lawn from Dystra Engineering. Um there was a ribbon on that and there was paint
on the street and all of my neighbors and I were wondering did the neighbors sell? Is somebody getting a survey? Why are they on my lawn playing with the hub? Um and now I found out just an hour or so ago from a friend of mine who lives in the area that this this is happening. Um so two questions. The
first question is um has there been any consideration for the cost? I know the woods back there. Um I know them very well. I walk them. Um it's all shale. It's going to be very difficult to put anchors in to support a boardwalk. It's going to become a maint if you're doing a boardwalk. It's and we'll talk to Mr.
Dystrom. I'll get on notice please if I can. Um it's going to be a maintenance item. I can tell you that uh my generation of I've put four four girls through the high school. They've all done very well. The biggest impediment right now in town is the taxes. They've become uh staggering staggering since we
moved in 20 years ago. Uh to the point where a lot of my friends and I are very concerned about that. So, this is a very big concern for us. You're going to make the town uninhabitable. Last week, $89 million for a proposal. It's not a good way to go. If it's going to be a big expense, you really really need to
consider it. Uh please just that's all I ask. The taxes in New Jersey and and the town have become uh unmanageable. Um the second question is and and has there been consideration for the cost? Yes. The design the design projections, the soft money and the actual construction.
Can we have that number if you know it? No, we don't have the number yet. Um, but the point is you Okay, you know, because you're not there on the planning stage yet, right? Because the way these things work is you first have to survey the land to figure out where it's going to go and there will be
that. And look, you know, if it turns out obviously it's going to be a 10 billion trail, obviously we wouldn't do it. But you you can't what you can't do when you do these things is say, "Well, I have this fear that it could cost a lot of money. So why do you even start?"
Now, if we took that approach, nothing would get done ever. And and nothing that would advance the improved quality of life for Sparta would get done. There will come a time where we actually have to, you know, how much is this actually going to cost? Is there grant money,
etc. But we're just not there yet. This is really kind of incremental steps along the way. And this is just a tiny incremental step. There's going to be a lot more steps along the way. Understood. Yeah. Understood. I appreciate getting on the list. So, the second question, guys, is so why are they out on Greenfield Hill if they're
going to connect the middle school to the high school? I'm not understanding the path. Um, may I be directed to that drawing so I could see where the Yeah, we can give you that drawing. That's probably a survey question. None of us here are surveyors. And why they have to go on there to survey this, I don't know. if if you don't mind. I
understand the confusion here, but over in your area where where you're at, it has to do with the land swap. All right. The trail itself is going from the the bus depot behind uh Earl's Tree Farm and behind the the Vancirk Homestead to the
middle school and it's right off of the wetlands there. In order to make that a straight a straight line uh with town property and all that, we had to acquire a certain amount of property from the land trust. All right. So now the land trust says we'll give you that property if you agree to swap the 25 acres which
is located on your side by Greenfield by by Cedar Milstone. All right. And they're surveying that strictly for the land swapability. The as far as I know there's no trails, no boardwalks, no no anything going around by you guys other than them trying to serve right. just
they're just trying to survey where their property exists or right now where the town's property is because now the town in proposal would just be conveying that as a swap. And that's why I was saying all along nothing is going to change by you folks over there. Nothing
at all will change environmentally or anything. It would it would be done by the deed and and you bring up some good points on what you're saying and I I I understand that. But just know that the trail itself is much closer to to 517 between the high school and middle
school. And and that cross you're talking about, I believe it's a sidewalk down West Mountain to the football field and then you cross at the crosswalk. I don't think they're going straight across because you're right, that is that's just not safe. But for the time if they get the that the trail built in
that in that small little area between those two parts there, it would go down West Mountain on the sidewalk that's already there. and you'd have the crosswalk. Your concerns are well taken, but please know, as my understanding, you guys aren't gonna see anything going on other than stakes and ribbons because
they're trying to establish the existing land trust area, the town area, and then how the swap would be conveyed, and they'd have new survey lines. Um, I I I do feel for you on the notification, and I I Yeah, you start seeing ribbons and
paint and all that, you wonder what's going on. and and and we got to work better at at figuring out how to notify residents. I wasn't aware of it until I learn learned from you about it. U but we can do better at notifying you. But please know though, my understanding nothing's going to change other than
this is part of that swap where the town gets the property from land trust for that that trail. And I I hope that clarifies a little bit. It does. I appreciate that. And then the land trust that we give the land trust some of our land. Yes. For the swap. Right.
Robert Moss Bloomfield. Um, this is not my why I'm here and I don't process things quickly, but I'm having trouble buying some of the answers here. There should have been a preliminary survey, people notified before a preliminary survey, which could be done in the tax
office, at worst, the county clerk's office. I just don't see why they have to be putting stakes in the ground. and then you come back and say, "Well, we'll do the details when we start writing the writing the contracts." That's too late. So, that's all I have for this one.
Well, in order to figure out what you're putting in the contract, you have to put survey first. You can't that that's the whole point is that you can't until you know specifically that's why they're doing it the way they're doing it. Let me try just once more. Preliminary survey. You can look at tax maps. I used
to do this all the time for the Highlands Trail. You can look at deeds if you have to preliminary. It doesn't mean it's final, but then the the the people who may be impacted could be notified. Is that clear or am I not talking coherently? Well, there was a you're saying on
purpose of of notifying them. Well, for purposes of notification, yes, start with that. Okay. They don't have to be on the ground surveying to say, well, we might go this way. Let me not take up more time.
Jenny Derk's tap into Sparta. Can you um can you speak about the track record of the land trust versus the wildlife management area forest um New Jersey Department of uh
environmental protection? What is their track record? the land trust. Um the people about 30 years ago, residents got together and raised funds to secure the safety of the forest on
Sparta Mountain and then turned it over to the MUA to have it become an MUA thinking that or WMA thinking that it would preserve the land. there was a threat of a development going in there and so they raised money to preserve the
woods and now here we are having to fight to say stop chopping down our trees. So what proof or what confidence do you have? What is the track record of the land trust New Jersey land trust versus
the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protections wildlife management project or programs throughout the state? Because it's not just here at Sparta, it's also down south. They cut down old growth forest down by Cape May. It's not a new thing. So what do you
know what their track record is? And by they you mean the New Jersey land. Have we done an analysis comparing the track record of the New Jersey land trust v compared to the fish and wild? Don't even need to do a comparison. And I'm just saying the the thing that's
staring us in the face is that they cut down 20 acres 10 acres of land trees a year on Sparta Mountain that was donated. Land was donated to the wildlife preservation with the expectation that it would be preserved.
And now here we are saying nothing's going to change because it's going into this land trust. Do we trust the land trust? Does the land trust have a record that you can look at and say over 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, they've
never developed land that they've I am not aware of a situation like the one again we're it's the New Jersey Wildlife that that did the the Sparta Mountain thing. Not the New Jersey Land Trust. And I'm not aware of a situation where the New Jersey land trust was, you know, conveyed land and then all of a
sudden started developing it or clearcutting it, etc. That That's my question. Has there been an investigation into the FSSA into into the trustworthiness of the New Jersey land trust? Yeah, based upon uh their track record, based upon what we know about them,
based upon that um you know, Mr. Dyra has over 30 years of experience with the land trust and you know, didn't identify, hey, if we there's really not a partner you want to partner with, right? Because they'll end up taking the land and they'll turn it into some developing thing or they'll clearcut it. Um that has not been raised. So there
has been some evaluation of that. Um, and the reason why we have to go with the land trust is because the way the trail is. Yeah, I understand. There's already land there. I get it. But my question, I'm just concerned that we're putting this land into a trust being run by a state
entity. When we have land also that was put into a trust by a state entity and they are not upholding what their promises were, it's hard to trust what's going on now. You can see why it would be hard to trust. And so I'm asking that
if it hasn't been done that a serious look, not just somebody said it's okay, but a serious look at the history of the New Jersey Land Trust because this isn't our only run with the New Jersey Land Trust. I believe we're doing more with
with the uh closing of the landfill. Believe that's with Green Acres. Okay. Same same question. I'll just say there's probably information out there because they've been around 57 years and um they are an
independent agency associated with the D but they are definitely separate from fish and wildlife and that operation uh being and they manage and they're responsible today for over 30,000 acres uh of open space and 3,000 acres of
conservation easements. So I'm not vouching for them. I'm just saying just sharing some more information about who the NJ land trust is. So there probably is information out there if they've done something wrong. And I think we can all also see if you
look at a scale of townships that own property and what they do with that property and compare that to the New Jersey land trust. Who are you going to trust more to preserve it? We know plenty of times there's Sparta where there there's townships that own
all kinds of property that's preserved that all of a sudden becomes a housing development warehouse all kinds of things. So this idea sort of a you know this idea that well it's either if Sparta owns it in safer grounds it's not always the case.
So I I um I I think that's sort of a false choice to compare uh the New Jersey land trust and say well you know they you know maybe some instance they uh you know started developing or doing something with it. Um if you compare the
New Jersey Land Trust to townships that have taken property that they own that was not developed and then sold it to a developer that now is developed there's probably thousands of instances of that. Right. So, I don't know what future generations of Sparta Township are going
to be. This this whole council could change and they could figure out that you know what, I think we're going to figure out a way to take that wetland environmentally sensitive property and and and build all kinds of things. So, I I'm I kind of disagree with the idea
that putting it in the township hands is actually safer. I was just going to make a similar point uh before you said that just about you know there may be a sense of trust today with how people are feeling and maybe with this council hopefully about our feelings about land and about the environment that could change you know
politics change the community changes a little bit so just to I guess kind of echo that point I was thinking the same thing that right now it might seem like um you know things are great and protected if it's town property but you know who knows 5 10 15 years down the road how things change and this is an opportunity to actually help preserve
that that land as well. So, yeah, I think you know what what um you've raised with respect to Sparta Mountain, that's going to be something that we can work out in the contract, you know, particular provisions about what they can actually do once they have
it. Um that's that's, you know, something that we can address. Uh I think and again what tonight is about is to start that so we can start entering into those contracts and these issues about notice and um you know making sure that the land trust keeps it preserved
um you know forever um we can deal with. So, any other um public comments? Name is Dan Dean. Um I think you should t this also. One thing you're saying that you've been looking at this for
years and you're already paying somebody to do a survey. You're already spending our tax money. No, not being paid. He's he's doing for free. He's doing free. No notification to us. You got a lot in
front of my house that's that's being sold and given to the state. You got another one on the other side by by Greenfield. In between that is a bird sanctuary. So no, there's no promise here that they're going to pres preserve this land.
And that bird sanctuary part of it? No, it's not. It's two separates. So, you know, no notification to us is is just a slap in the face. So, I think you should table it, notify everybody, show everybody the plans,
what's going on, and then move forward from there. No, we should be involved in this. Well, that there is a time for that, right? You've been doing this for years already. So, there's no nobody's notified. You said it's been going on for years.
So, no, the I think it's time to start notifying us what the plan is. Understood. But I I think that like I said, all we're doing tonight is to start the contracting process. We've done, you know, the survey. We want to contract something that we
know nothing about. No, you're taking our land. No township. Well, one will disagree that we're taking your land because if unless you that lot and block, unless your name is on that lot and block, I'm not saying my land. You don't? Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying the township land. Yeah.
And you're going to give it to the state. I don't trust the state with anything. So, you're going to give the two lot two big lots away to them and next thing you know, no, they'll be put a parking lot down there for for the boardwalk. They'll be connecting everything everywhere. No, I don't agree with it. I
think everybody needs to be involved and we're not. Well, you're at the very beginning and I I Your point is well taken. You got to be kidding. You just told us you've been doing this for years. You were trying to do this for years. Yeah, we've been trying to do for years
and we're we're we're finally making some progress finally people would do when they would just shudder and stop. They'd say, "You know what? It's not worth it. It's not worth it because people are going to raise concerns. I don't want to deal with the headache." And I knew all
that going in. Right. I knew all that going in. Bigger headache. What? Now you have a bigger headache because you didn't involve us. No, you you're still involved. Nothing. Your land isn't getting taken. No boardwalks getting built. Okay. I understand the opportunity. You didn't send letters
to anybody. That's your responsibility, not not his responsibility. No, the law did not require that we send a notice on an initial survey. Okay. So, we will the point is well taken. We will get you the information you need. If you want to come to a meeting, you're you're
more than welcome. Um, but again, we this is a marathon and we're only one mile in, right? We're only one mile in. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Excuse me, Mr. Dash. Can you if if this
land is is conveyed, you can make a contract with to the New Jersey land trust that I mean, put so many specifics in it. Can you do that to if it's if this
particular land is conveyed? Yes. I mean generally yes. The the rules of the land trust first they have their own rules that restrict the uses to certain conservation and recreation uses. Um, and so we would endeavor to,
knowing what we know about the history of Sparta Mountain, we would endeavor to take that lesson and employ it here, uh, to to to restrict any type of use that would be inconsistent with what the residents want. the particular parcel of
land that is um that the lady had brought up earlier is is a rural residential lot that at the moment is susceptible to being purchased by a developer um if or the township could sell that land. Um, so there's
there's policies for for both. And at the moment, by by having restrictions on how the land trust can use its preserve, it could affectuate the interest of the township and the council and the residents. But it's a fluid discussion
and uh there's nothing being carved in stone and we certainly welcome the residents to have their input in that uh discussion on the restrictions with the preserve and this right now this land is wetlands preserved wetlands. So it will stay
preserved wetlands with the state. It would stay restricted from from development. Mhm. Joanne Scaly, Sparta. Um, I'm just asking to table it again tonight because there are some good questions raised like especially by Jenny. Um, I don't
trust the state taking over anything. I was just doing a quick look. They can convey it um without any input for us. There's no input for once we sign that we're forever emboldened to uh the state. They could do what they want um within reason, but they can convey it.
they can do other things and we have no um input into that. Jenny raised so many good questions. So the residents I think it should be tabled. Why go and you're saying it didn't cost money for um surveying the land but it will cost
money entering into contracts or looking into contracts and our town does not have the money and in fact our town does not have the money for this trail at this time. I think it should be put off. I think you should look into what Jenny brought up. um look into what these other residents brought up, but I don't
think it's time to start putting money into things and hiring lawyers to look into things cost money. I don't want my tax money um paid for this. I think it should be tabled and um looked into all these good questions and it's preserved
land. It's not going to be sold. Sparta is not going to sell it. Um I think it should stay in Sparta's hands. Um, there's another way I'm sure that you can get that trail built. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? What's going to be heard on the resolutions?
Why not? Okay, we will now go to the resolutions. Uh, first I'd like to do the ones um together. And so, uh, may I have a motion to approve
resolution 92 and 93? So, moved. Uh, may I have a second, please? I have a second. Uh, all those in favor of approving resolutions 92 and 93, say I. I. I. All right. We're now We've already done
uh 91. Um, may I have a motion to approve resolution 94, which is a resolution authorizing the township of Sparta to enforce a Halloween curfew. I'll make a motion to approve resolution 94.
May I have a second, please? I'll second. Okay. Um, just real quick, the 9:00 curfew, that's what it's always been, right? Nine. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right. All those in favor of resolution 94, say I. I. I.
I. Resolution 94 has passed. Uh, you've had this curfew for um years. 21 years I've been here. Okay. All right. So, it's nothing new. Okay. In bed by nine.
Keep your eye. May. Yeah. I got my toilet paper ready. All right. Uh, may I have a motion to approve uh resolution 95, which is a resolution to approve best practices inventory questionnaire? Make a motion to approve
95. Uh, may I have a second, please? I will second. Okay, I'll uh take it back to anyone questions. Mayor, yes, I did prepare a statement just for the
public on the best practice. Uh, the 2025 municipal best practice practices inventory is a statewide survey required by law that helps New Jersey towns review how well they follow important laws and use recommended financial and operational practices by
answering questions on topics like budgeting, emergency services, ethics, technology, and more. Each municipality shows how it's working to serve the residents effectively and responsibly. The results help the state decide if towns qualify for their full state aid
and also highlight areas where towns may need extra support or resources. The survey was shared with the council previously. Our survey score was a 38.5 which qualifies us for the full 100% state aid amount. Once this resolution
is approved, our CFO will submit the survey which has a deadline of October 24th. Thank you. Thank you. And um um kudos to the township for scoring the highest that you need to uh in order to have um you
know state funding. I I will notice that you may want to take a look at comment 30. Uh it says if you answer no, you have to put no in the comments field and we didn't do that. So just when you go through you're going to have to the CFO enters elect she she puts it in
electronically. So Oh, okay. The version we have forced to say anything. Okay. But I just but if you read through that, you get a really good idea of all the things that the township has to do uh in order to obtain uh that score. And it's it's very
detailed and and pretty rigorous. So I I think that um it's a real good example of how um this town tries to comply with the best practices. Um so thank you to all your staff who I'm sure had to help put that together.
Thank you. Okay. So, um all those in favor of resolution 95 say I. I. I. Resolution 95 has passed. Um I will make a motion to table
resolution 96. So I'm moving to table 96. I'll second. All those in favor of tableabling say I. I. I. I. Uh 96 is tabled. Um, as I I told all
that, there's a and I can't get into it. There's a legal and um attorney client privilege. Excuse me, mayor. Reason reason we I think this gentleman wanted to talk discuss 96. He came up early. Yeah, you missed it. You were that we had the whole comment on resolutions.
That was the time to do it. No, that's not what I understand. I can't record everything in my mind at age 78 automatically. Okay. But I understood that I would wait till this came up. You're going to say you're going to table it and now is my time to speak. Okay. I'm going to indulge you, sir. If
you would just listen to me for a second. We had a public comment period about the resolutions and I can't hear. I know. And that was the opportunity to talk about I'm going to let you told me to wait and then he didn't know to come back. Okay. Wait till the transcript comes out. May I speak now?
Sir. Sir, I'm going to let you speak. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Go ahead. Right. uh some of us who oppose these uh what's going on in Sparta Mountain were back and forth about coming tonight for the reason you're just discussing. So I
am not well prepared. I don't have notes and I can I'll take questions uh give give out my contact information if anybody has questions. It does relate apparently to what the uh the residents were talking about there. What happens
on what land that's supposed to be protected? Sparta Mountain is under green acres encumbrances to the extent that this trail business was also involves green acres. It doesn't mean that it's going to m maintain pristine forest just because
it's green acres. Under green acres law and under certain conditions the management practices now the Sparta Mountain forest stewardship plan would be legal if they made certain changes. I just want people to understand that and if Greenacres is
involved in this uh what was it the land trust or something that would also be true but you can have deed restrictions. So with respect to Sparta Mountain the issue is not really about um
the issue is not really about species. Supposedly they're trying uh to protect species that depend on young forest habitat. New Jersey autobomb which has been pushing this thing has not done a a survey has not made up a comprehensive plan for the highlands as a whole which
is needed and that's the way you can tell how much land has to be managed this way. How much young forest do you need for warblers to survive and so on. That has not been done. The reason being there's state and funny sorry state and federal
money that comes in when you have a wildlife uh wildlife management plan approved by a state forester. That's what this is all about. 10% of Sparta Mountain with its all regular boundaries and everything. 10% of uh Mand Dickerson reservation that's
county. Um it's all about doing this in as many places as uh you can and private land. um writing stewardship plans and managing them. You got to go out and flag trees. There's funding available for that and I can give details not
right from my head now. That's what this is all about under Green Acres. Green Acres and and specifically for Sparta Mountain, it prohibits the uh removal of forest products for sale on the commercial markets. Well, that's exactly what they're doing there. They're cutting down trees and shipping
them out to markets. Um there's also one other thing that came up uh recently relatively a couple years ago. Certain uh appropriations by the legislature are being made for so-called habitat restoration when they are not
and that's referring to the Sparta Mountain Plan but the Sparta Mountain Plan is not restoration even though they say it is it is management for the purpose of creating something that they say used to be. So these are two um two uh violations of Greenacres law right now. I have this in court. It is still
in court. I am prosay. I'm not an attorney who can who and I therefore cannot give legal advice. I am presently waiting for the New Jersey Supreme Court to respond to my uh challenge based on a denial of due process. The the um the
appellet division made a decision completely without basis in law. um if I fail on this and this proves I'm not a lawyer because I'm going to tell you my strategy. If I fail on this, I'm going to take it to federal court on a procedural due process violation. So, that's what's going on there. Now, um a
lot of people are opposed for various reasons, not all exactly the same as mine. And we do hope that the council in due time will pass a resolution uh favoring the termination of the current forest stewardship plan. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, we did vote on the the tableing. Okay. That did pass. Okay. Got it. Um, next up is, uh, may I have a motion to approve resolution 97, which is a resolution to endorse a
modification to the Sparta Township chapter of the Sussex County Water Quality Management Plan, WQMP, for a proposed dwelling construction at 100 Indian Trail, block 5023, lot 3 within
the township of Sparta. So, may I have a motion to approve resolution 97? I I'll make I'll make a motion to approve resolution 97. May I have a second, please? I'll second. All those discussion. Yeah, sure.
Yeah. Yeah. I would like to propose an amendment, add a sentence in here. Um when our engineer looked at this, uh he had recommended uh a restriction put on this as well at the time of passing of a resolution. Um what he recommended was that any as any
any resolution adopted be adopted with the condition that no future construction on the property in question be permitted until all approvals from NJ and County of Sussex have been obtained. So my motion is that we add uh a sentence to this resolution
that states the following. no future construction on the property in question be permitted until all approvals from the NJ DP and
the county of Sussex have been obtained. Okay. So, we'll need to do a motion to amend. Um and then I I will add to that just there was a typo um in the third whereas clause
uh the words for and the should be deleted. So it should it should read where there's a resolution of support to modify. Right now it says for the to modify. So um to modify. Yeah.
Yeah. That's what it should say. and you would delete the word for and delete the word 'the'. So, we have a motion by um Council Blummeti. Um and I'll just say that you're doing that
one as well. Okay. So, uh, a mot may we have a motion to amend resolution 97, uh, to insert the language as stated by Councilman Blumemedi and also to remove the words for and from the third whereas
clause. So, um, we need I need a second. Uh, Councilman Petty, can you please repeat what you want me to put in the resolution to amend it and what section it is, please? Okay. Attorney Dash, can you advise where that phrase is best suited to be inserted
about the restriction on no construction until permits? Sure. Um, we could just add a a final whereas clause before the now therefore. You could you could do that right before the now therefore clause.
Okay. So add another whereas clause right before the be it resolved. So the motion is add another whereas clause that states no future construction
on the property in question be permitted until all approvals from the NJ DP and the County of Sussex have been obtained obtained. All good. Okay.
Thank you. Sure. Okay. So, we have uh a motion to amend uh resolution 97 uh for the uh statement read by uh Mr. Bumemedi and to delete the words for and the from the third whereas clause. So, I
um I need I have a motion and now I just need a second to that motion. I will second that motion for the amendment. Okay. And so, um, all those in favor of amending resolution 97 as stated on the
record, say I. I. I. Resolution 97 has been amended. Uh, now, may I have a motion to approve resolution 97 as amended? I'll make a motion to approve 97 as amended.
May I have a second, please? I will second it. All those in favor, can we discuss this again? Uh, okay. Now, would this would this new structure hooking up to the sewer
system or expanding our sewer system impact our fair housing COA number? No. No. No. Okay. Thank you. We have a first and a second. Any we go to vote? Okay. All those in favor of uh
resolution 97 as amended, say I. I. I. Resolution 97 as amended has passed. Did you want to do a roll call for the amendment? I don't think we have to. I mean, it's up to you. You You run the show. I'm saying you could do it. You don't
mind. Roll call. So, this is a roll call on approving resolution 97 as amended. As amended. Yeah. Councilman Scott. Yes. Councilman Blumeetti, yes. Deputy Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark, yes. Okay. Right. Thank you.
Resolution 97 as amended has been approved. Uh, next we have, may I have a motion to approve resolution 98, which is a resolution awarding a contract to Joe Demo LLC for concrete and asphalt crushing per the New Jersey Department
of Environmental Protection in accordance with the local public contracts law NJSA 4A11-1 at sequence required disclosure. So, may I have a motion to approve resolution 98? I make a motion to
approve resolution 98. Uh, may I have a second, please? Have a second. Okay. And um, Jim, just a question about this. Where uh, this how did this particular
contractor, how was it selected? It it's by quotes because we have a a purchasing agent. So every year the public works department does a whole bunch of work out on the roads and uh on facilities and they collect a lot of concrete usually from catch basin work
and stuff like that and we have a spoils pile of concrete and we have a spoils pile of asphalt. All right. It's it's contaminated to a certain extent and you have to dispose of it properly per the D. uh rather than trucking it out to a recycling agency, we're able to grind it
on on location, save a ton of money on trucking fees and wear and tear and whatnot, and then the recycled uh uh product can get used and get reinccorporated into new roads as base or base material for other purposes. So the the process has worked very well for
us. Now what's happened now is the cost of doing it is is you know over our our our threshold and with that we get the quotes given and then when the quotes are given anything over the payto-play rule it jumpst starts the resolution process
by the QPA right so the QPA says hey it's over 175 you really should do a formalized resolution uh in in in you know awarding the contract so that's what we're doing great Thank you for that explanation.
Um we have a first and a second. All those in favor of approving resolution 98 say I. I. I. Next we have uh resolution 99 which is a resolution of the township of Sparta County of Sussex, State of New Jersey supporting acquisition of certain
township lands by the New Jersey Natural Lands Trust in exchange for the conveyance of certain lands uh by the trust to the township. Uh, so I may have a motion to approve resolution 99. I'd like to make a motion to table this
resolution uh subject to additional evaluation and and and learning exactly what the risks and mitigants are to possibly conveying this land. Yeah, we have a a motion to table. Uh,
it needs a second. I will second it. Okay. Um, so we have a motion to table 99. Uh, all those, uh, why don't you do a roll call for that one for tonight?
And this is to table resolution 9-9. Yes. Councilman Scott, yes. Council Metti, no. Deputy Mayor Murphy, yes. Mayor Clark, uh, no. So, the motion to table uh has failed and and I will add that there
will be again there's going to be plenty of time to vet all the concerns and all the issues that people have raised. We're just trying to get the ball rolling at this point. Um so, nothing is getting no one's land is getting conveyed or not even the township's land is getting conveyed at this point. This
is simply to begin the process and we are going to um we will do notice uh we will bring people in to explain this and I think what tonight has demonstrated people need a lot more information. Um we're just very early in the process. That's why there's not all that information because we knew the time
would be coming for that um later on down the road. We're just trying to get started. Um so again um the motion to table has failed. Uh, now may I have a motion to approve resolution 99?
So moved. Uh, may I have a second, please? All right. I will second it. We have some discussion. Sure, please. Okay. First question. I'm not sure if our attorney or town manager knows this, but is this town property being
considered quote unquote preserved today in any fashion or is it just township property? Most of it is environmentally sensitive land and you know likely it's not restricted from sale but it's likely restricted from development because of
the the natural characteristics of the property either wetlands or other um environmentally sensitive land. Okay. So it's not necessarily preserved outright, but in terms of if any party was going to try to do something, they'd run into problems with permits and and
they could whole process they could, but as history has shown, the developers will go to any extent to develop land that even may be considered environmentally sensitive. Okay. Okay. So I have a couple thoughts here. Obviously, there needs to be a lot
of attention on this going forward because there was um the first the surveying step was not handled well at all and we do need to address that with with uh Mr. Dystra. That was uh that should not have happened at all. Um we should we will need to look at the cost considerations. Absolutely.
We'll look at any property disputes. Um that obviously can't go forward with any property disputes. It's horrible. And that that needs to be that will be resolved. I mean legally it needs to u this needs to stay preserved. Um any contracts or any details that are being proposed coming down the pike if
this goes through need to be meticulously analyzed and be very careful and that includes making sure this stay preserved stays preserved. The land as you've heard and as you know is environmentally sensitive. it's really not meant to be developed and that needs to stay in it and down the road if
that's not happening then I I'm definitely not going to be in support of it. Um all that being said, as long as we're going to do that and that needs to happen and there's a lot of stop signs along the way, I do think we need to consider this and take the next step forward. So that's why I'm in favor of
supporting this moving forward. And you'll see the language in the resolution is not for a contract. It's not for any financial exchange. is just to say that we support taking the next step to see if this can happen. That's that's where I stand with this. I'm not saying it's a given and and depends on
what comes up. We'll see what happens, but we need to at least take the next step to see what's going to happen. Thank you uh for that. And I will echo that. And I can't help but what what what comes to mind is, you know, when I coach athletes who want to run a race,
um there are They often are like, "Well, what if this happens? What if that happens? What if this?" And they want like the perfect thing before they get started. And what you tell them is the most important step you will take is the first step out the door, right? If you're trying to resolve
every possible thing that could possibly go wrong in a race before you step out the door, you'll never start that race and you will never finish it. And so what this process and what this discussion has is what I don't want to do is turn this into we are not going to
take even the first step before we know all the 50 other steps that are going to happen and all the other things that that will unfold. Um if we do that we will never get started and and what we're trying to do tonight is is get started. I think people have made uh
very good uh concerns uh and I think that that's very important going forward and so as we start to go down and run this marathon we will you know we will address those issues and um but so I thank you for for raising them. They're
important points um and again you know let's let's start this race. Let's don't just give up until we have a you know a perfect answer to all our questions. Uh this is about getting started tonight of Sparta right survey.
So it was dedicated open space preserve land in Sparta. I don't Is that for all all the lots in question? Is there actually a need for this? The four children went to the high school
to go from middle school to the high school. Is there some type of need for this? Is that the buff that I don't understand? What is the purpose of this? We've Is there a need? Yes, there's a need. I you go talk to middle school parents who whose kids have to walk down West
Mountain Road and would they like not have to traverse that and go be able to take a trail from the middle school to the high school. So, yes, there is a need. Yeah. So, anyway, we have a um a first and a second. So, all those in
favor of approving resolution 99 say I. I I all those opposed. No. No. Okay. Resolution 99 has failed. I think we need more information. I'm sorry.
Yeah. We could have tabled it, but Well, we've said no. Well, I think what again I will reiterate the all we're trying to do is get started here and what people want is all the information right away before we
can even get started. But it is what it is. I will say that, you know, in a lot of the community surveys, including the, you know, thousand or so people last year with the master plan survey and other ones, um there has been a lot of requests for things like this, right? For um giving it a a space for people to
get outdoors and enjoy the environment more, to have something safe between the schools. So, this is not coming out of nowhere. Um that's why this idea has been around and now it's finally we're trying to get more information on if it's feasible and this is the path forward. It doesn't mean that it's a given whatsoever. Again, the
environmental issues and the the nature part of it is first and foremost, but it's not that it's a few people thinking this is a good idea. This has been, you know, trails, um, walking paths, things like that have been there forever. Yeah. And it's more and more lately we've been hearing that from the community. I
believe, you know, I certainly support the trails committee, but it doesn't seem like we're talking about three pieces of land here, and we haven't done the research on the three pieces of land. The piece we're going to swap, the two we're going to give, and and what are the ramifications of that?
So, I would just like to answer the public's uh public's concerns. I mean, that doesn't mean we have to defeat this, defeat this for the end of time, but you know, maybe we could look at this, get some answers and and and and
revisit this at the next meeting if we had answers. Well, the idea that the land has not been reviewed is incorrect. It has been uh is has been preserved uh environmentally sensitive land. I don't know what more people need to find out about.
No, the land trust, the New Jersey land trust and how they've been. I think that would be again we we can Okay. There's no sense to land, but my point is we could have done that, right? We didn't sign a contract today.
No. All right. So now we have to go back and I'm going to tell you this is how initiatives always fail. They always fail because people want every single answer to their question before it gets started. Are you okay, sir?
That's something. Okay. Well, I'm not going to belabor the point, but you know, I guess I'll have to work and find out what more information will be needed before we can even begin the process. Again, we're not
at the conveyance stage here. Um, so right and we've already done 910, right? Yes. I'm missing part of my Hold on. Okay, we are up to council liaison updates and I'll start to my far left.
Hi. Um the municipal alliance uh participated in harm reduction month back in September and I would just like to make an announcement that um Narcan is being now distributed for free at Sparta Pharmacy, Stop and Shop Pharmacy,
CVS of Sparta. And so, uh, if anyone has a concern that they may ever need to use Naron on someone that's in their home or someone that's a neighbor, they may would like they may
look in they may want to go get a uh, a dose of Narcan. Narcan is is the is the I guess it's the anti-drug when someone overdoses on opioids or heroin
as I understand it. Um there is uh there are also vending machines that are available and so you don't have to go in the store and ask for something like that. um at the HPACon Senior Center uh at 32 Lakeside
in Apacon. Um you can always get this Narcan at the Center for Prevention and Counseling, which is at 61 Spring Street in Newton. And there's a lovely lady, Lisa
Lombardo, that would be glad to help you uh with any counseling or any any issues you have regarding uh you know, drug abuse and drug use and and naran. Yes, sir. Do the police
services? Yes, we do. We we have in all of our vehicles. Uh we have extra on hand. Yes. Um, and also if you want some more information on Narcan, uh, you can look on our website. We always post, uh, information from the Center for Prevention and Counseling when they host
training on it. Uh, that's it. Margie, I uh, with the Rev 250 was cancelled. Um, and I we have not had another meeting
yet for the seniors committee and I will have one this week or soon for environmental. So I have nothing new to update or the environmental. Sure. or the um a little bit on the
master plan subcommittee. Um the message is getting out there. There's going to be a public input meeting at on a large scale at the high school on Wednesday, October 29th at 7 p.m. Uh all are invited and this is the next step that
uh followed the focus group sessions and the stakeholder committee sess stakeholder sessions with um various specific groups such as the recreation department um the first responders, the board of the education and board of ed and other various groups. This one is now more of a community event and we'll
have different sections and breakout groups and you can um get a quick overview of master plan and then we'll be looking for ideas and input on various segments of the master plan. Again, that's uh October 29th, 7 p.m. at the high school. U there are numerous
components of the master plan that are underway now. Um for instance, you know, the background information, goals and objectives, the demographic analysis, the circulation plan is getting started up. Uh the land use plan is underway. Uh
climate change vulnerability assessment uh is also underway. Um so these are various components and there are a few other ones and those are being done in parallel and then some of them sequentially over time as we move forward with the master plan process. So, uh, feel free to join us and come
out, uh, on the 29th. We're looking to have a good group and some some good dialogue. Uh, they're not available. No, the master plan is not created yet. It's still draft. Online though, there are versions of the old master plan and some of the amendments since then. Uh, but
the new one is just it's a work in progress. There's nothing to sharable yet. But at the right time, there'll be public hearings and sessions at the planning board level especially about it. to help curious about Well, in this case, um it's on the website, it's in local uh news outlets,
it's on the message board. Um there was a a an alert that went out if you signed up for the email or text alerts. I don't know if it's in the independent tap into is okay. Yeah. Electronic.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or not. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Okay. Um, since our last meeting, uh, we have not had a Rev 250, so don't have, uh, an update on that. Um, but there's,
um, so, and our film commission. Um, not much since my last one, but we do have, I think may have mentioned, I can't remember if I did, but, I will repeat, um, that there is now a Sussex County Film Commission. Um and that uh there
will be um members of the Sparta um film committee that are also uh belonging to the Sussex County uh film commission. Um also we are currently working um with Barnlight Studios. Um some of the
members are uh which is now part partnered with the Sussex County Community College uh which is going to create a local film workforce pipeline. Um and that uh Justin Karpartich from our film commission has joined the
advisory board for this and so he can help them with getting uh resources like culinary HVAC etc for any entertainment questions um entertainment production. Also, we're in the process of building a
central photo resource um that will showcase Sparta filming locations um which is beyond what Real Scout provides. Now, Real Scout is if you go on the New Jersey Film Commission, there's a thing called Real Scout, which is like a database where you can do searches on it and say and and find
locations that you'd be interested in doing. We're we're going to do a separate one um that will just showcase uh you know Sparta possible filming uh locations that uh entertainment production companies can look to. And uh also what I like about this next
update is you the kind of what I call crosspollination between committees. So, uh, we have a member of our Rev 250 committee, uh, the reenactor, Ben thes, who, uh, is interested in, um, possibly doing a
filming of a reenactment. Um, and so he reached out to us about, you know, the process and h how he'd go about that, and we were instructing him. So there hopefully will be a filming of a, you know, a reenactment of probably a
colonial revolutionary war skirmish. Um, Ben is a very accomplished reenactor. Um, so again, he reached out to us and we're working on that uh now. So that's the update uh with the film committee. Have not had a meeting for the wreck.
Um, I think we have a uh opioid settlement meeting. It's at the end of the month, I think. believe is the last Wednesday. Yeah. So that that will and after that meeting um uh I can give an update on
that else and that is all I have for council liaison updates. Right. We are now up to unfinished
or new business. And again I'll start to my far left. Uh, I just want to go on the record that the next zoning board meeting is having to be cancelled as we do not have enough members to conduct a quorum and that is
because of the obstructions that we've had uh in choosing additional zoning board and planning board members from my fellow councilman. I just want to go on the record with that. And so here we are now. We're obstructing and
stopping progress. Thank you. I don't have any new business. Sure. Uh just clarifying question for Mark. Um, how many members are on the zoning board and how many are required for a quorum?
The next meeting is a devariance meeting and I understand from speaking to the head of the zoning board just moments before this meeting that the meeting will be cancelled because he doesn't have a quorum to hold a devariance
uh devariance quorum is that five votes or do you know I don't know I don't know the numbers That's just what the head of the planning board said. Okay. Maybe you could call him. No, it's it's a it's a zoning board. Excellent.
Head of the zoning board. Board. Yeah. Well, it's actually I will say none of us have usually the uh zoning board uh chairman reaches out to all the council uh members if there's an issue with respect to um something involving the
zone board. And this is the first that we've heard about um their inability to hold a meeting. So, I I haven't seen that. and and normally uh Ken's very good about notifying us. So I'll can reach out to him, you know, to verify that that that that is accurate.
So uh Mark, it's a great segue. I almost could have not planned it better, but um so I want to talk about that actually. So I've been thinking more and more about an appointment process for volunteers to the planning board and zoning board, especially after the last few meetings. We've had a lot of debate and a lack of forward movement and a
stalemate is not good for anyone. Um, a week ago, I sent uh a draft recommendation to each of my fellow council members just to share my thoughts and a a quick and easy plan of how we can move forward in a way that honors the importance of these roles because these are long-term appointments
to two statutory boards. Um, so in in the hopes of us moving forward and clarifying that way in a fair manner, I'll be making a motion in a minute to authorize our attorney to create a resolution for our next meeting or to adjust the ordinance. I'm not sure which
it'll take, but we need consensus before he can even do that and just so we can have a way to move forward. Um, you know, these two boards, I think, really deserve a little bit more attention. They're they're not a simple committee. There's a lot of responsibility that goes with this. It's a multi-year
appointment and a commitment on the behalf of volunteer. These are statutory boards, so they take training. They take a lot of requirements to get up to speed and they have a huge impact on the community. The online volunteer forms that we use, they're great for most of
these committees, but I find that at most they really only have a space and ability to add a couple sentences. We're not getting applications. We're not getting res. We're not getting a feel for who this volunteer might be. It's a few sentences at most. So, I think it'd be valuable to hear for a minute or two
just someone explain what they care about, who they are, why they want to serve on these boards, and then to also at the same time make sure we're hearing if five people applied for it, we're not just getting one appointed or one person recommended up here. We're hearing all five at once. If you've waited and you
sent an application in, you should be heard at the same time as the other one, two, three, or four people that want that spot. So, with that being said, we could do this. It's a three-step process. It's very simple. When an open position is identified on the planning board or zoning board, all
the volunteer candidates that have applied for that spot in the last two years, which is how it works today, two years, your application is valid two years. Our clerk would contact them and say, "Are you still interested?" Right? It might have been 23 months ago, maybe they've moved. Maybe they don't have an interest anymore. So, contact them, see
if they're interested. Step two, we invite them into a council meeting, preferably at the same time. if not maybe up to two council meetings but no longer. We get them all in and they speak. We have a short segment. They get one or two minutes for a statement, 30
seconds for a statement and then we each get one question. That's it. And we just move on. Step three is that these interviews happen and then we have a vote. But the interviews can't happen and we can't vote unless there's at least four council members. That seems
reasonable for the importance of these roles. We should strive for five. We should have at least four council members present to hear the candidates. They deserve respect and then vote on them. And he three votes for an appointment, which is how it is today. Three votes, right? A majority. I don't
think that's unfair, unreasonable. I think it gives us a better chance to hear from the applicants and then to make a valid choice. These are important roles. Some of them are four-year terms. So, that's my um I'm going to make a motion that we authorize our attorney to create a
resolution for the next meeting or modify the ordinance if that's what it needs so that we can just move forward and and get these things filled and have a fair process for everyone. So, that's my motion. Does the ordinance now say go back two years to the applicants
that who applied to contact them? I don't think the ordinance says contact them but the applications are valid for two years and they they're valid. So though I mean wouldn't if somebody were interested wouldn't they contact us continually? No, I don't think so. No, I think this is a proactive way to just reach out and
say, "Okay, you've applied. Are you still interested? We're going to have a, you know, 3 weeks or a month from now, please come in and speak to us for one or two minutes." Honestly, if someone doesn't care anymore or if they're not willing to speak for one or two minutes, then maybe they're not the best fit, right? Right. So I mean we need to like
find the people but if we put a process then it'll happen and have them be what about interviewed by the chair? We have a second first so we can discuss it more. I'll yeah I'll second uh the motion to authorize uh the attorney to uh adopt a
resolution or slash amend an ordinance. He'll determine that to determine um the selection process for our statutory boards. uh the planning board, uh the zoning board, and the environmental commission, which are all statutory boards.
So, I'll second that. Okay. Margie, you have Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, we've not done this in the past, correct? Correct. So, not that I'm aware of that that we've ever had. A long time ago, there might have been interviews, but not before way before my time if that's the case.
Yeah. Way before there might have been actually at some point. I don't know if anyone has institutional knowledge of that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if it has. I don't think No, I don't think it needs to be in public. I think it should be like we interviewed people for um town
council position. I think it should be in a It can't be It can't be legally though. Executive sessions are they're overused all the time. They're for litigation, employee personnel issues, and contracts, I believe. Contracts. So, it couldn't be. No,
we had we had the town people that were interested in town council interviewing and we wasted all their time and then seven seven people I think four or five were interviewed and then we wasted all the time because we didn't told them we
were going to make a decision within two weeks and here we are months later and now we're just throwing this in to to to cloud the waters a little bit more. Interesting perspective. So it they would not be considered that would not be considered part of an executive
session. No. So it would have to be in public. That be like a congressional investigation public. I don't understand. Well, no. I mean it's just because you you How do you limit one minute, two limit, three limit? I know. But I mean if it's
And what about the the chair of the planning board zoning board? Would they also have I think they also have would have an input. They don't they could attend. I think that yeah they could attend and that's
actually a very good point which is um that they could attend and they could offer you know hey I think you know having heard Joe Smith I think I think Joe Smith would would would be who my particular choice would be uh for this business because the way it's worked in
the past it's frankly what I look as sort of under the cover of darkness meaning the public doesn't know who's going to be on this board until it's a fat comp plea with a, you know, a motion and a second and then they're on and then the public's like, "Where did that person come from?"
And and and also it's it's a very cumbersome process when we have because what has to happen is Dean has to call the person, interview them. It's like whisper down the lane and then then it's my turn and then it's Margie's turn and then it's uh Councilman Scott's turn to
interview the person and then we all have to then get back together and figure it out. It's it's I think although it seems like you know the proc I think it will actually streamline it if we can simply agree on it. Um you know I think that being able to have the
person who's going to be facing the public this is these are public facing boards. I think adding to the process where they can face the public in a town meeting and explain why they want to do it you know their experience. Um there's, you know, because if you get
someone on the board, uh that doesn't necessarily gel with the rest of the people, they can cause all kinds of issues and things don't get done. Um things get backlogged, applications take a lot longer and we're seeing that now.
We're seeing that now. Um and it's also to prevent um unfortunately what happened. We were not going to do appointments by ambush, right? this process came about because there was a you know what I would describe as an ambush appointment. So to avoid that um the way to do it is to
have them all come forward and then look um you know we could even vote on them after their uh interview that night and we get it all done at once. So I I like the idea. I agree. The application is not at all. Yeah, the application is
needs to be redone. So they there's information on there. Um I don't know. I I interviewing I don't know that it's not a bad idea, but we just have to get this. This has been delayed way too long. Interview might be a strong word, right? We're asking them probably what I thought and we could change this that
you give them two two minutes or three minutes and just say about themselves, why they're interested, why they care, whatever. And it's up to them and then we ask one question each. So I don't I don't think this should be like a long marathon. Well, it's still an interview. You can call it that. Yeah. Yeah.
I don't disagree with it. Uh I just don't I guess as if it can't be done in an executive session. Um it's just been going on way too long. I believe we should just wait for the uh outcome of the election and then we have
five people on our council. We'll be able to execute business effectively. Mark, how does that how does that serve the volunteers? Right. So, if we don't look back two years and invite them to see if they're interested and bring them in so we can all hear them and give them
a fair shot, how how does sticking with what's happened? Reg if it was if it was their application was good for two years, why wouldn't they come up? They would be paying attention because anyone any one of us can nominate to appoint somebody right
whenever. So we don't have the chance to hear and look back two years and ask them to come in and no one else gets to hear them. No, I'm saying but if the if the per the person who said put their application in if they know it's good for two years, why wouldn't they be paying attention to
what's going on and know it? I mean I I don't I don't know. You guess you could say have have we done that? Have we contacted the people that have put in applications as of yet? I think we have I have not set up anything yet until
decision is made. I mean I think it's it's incorrect. I mean we've we've described this process for you know months ago and so you're equally able to agree to this as we are. So the attempt to say well it's it's
it's Councilman Blue Medy's fault. It's Councilman. No, we we suggested a process. You don't want to agree to it. And so here we are. Well, we I mean you are as equally culpable uh for the delay as you as what you blame us to be.
We think this is a fair process. We think it's more transparent. And I think it's a better way to go. But so we have a first and a second and um what's I don't understand what the harm is. Why don't we just try it out? I
mean, how bad can it be? It seems fair. What's the downside of this? I I don't quite get it. I tried looking at this subjectively. I mean, we're not saying I don't think every committee and board, but that's going to be overkill, right? These are statutory boards that have long-term again long-term and you said we don't know enough about them. These are
multi-year appointments sometimes up to four years or we could adjust the applications. But can't go backwards with that though. And that's takes work, right? I don't know. I I don't I mean unless people want more
appointments by ambush, then I think this is the way to go because I'll tell you what's going to happen, right? This is what this is about. Let's just cut through all the BS. It's about, hey, do we have the three people? Do we have three votes for the got person I want? Who cares about those other two? We're
just going to get them in. Doesn't matter. That's what this is about. No, it's about doing the right thing for the town. Yeah. the right thing for the town is to put the people in front of the in front of the process to have us interview them so the people can see it and I thought you had a very good suggestion about the
chairperson of the planning board and the chairperson of the zoning board being a part of that. Um these folks need to be vetted uh more than they have. Uh we had our own criticism four years ago about people who were on the planning board and my guess is uh my my
friends to the left would probably have recommended this process if they knew the constituency of the board uh back then. Um so simply I'm trying to prevent uh and you know appointments by ambush get the public get some transparency and
so we all know how uh we're dealing with these very important appointments. So, I will second it. Um, we have a first, we have a second. Why don't we have a roll call vote? Councilman Scott, no. Councilman Blumeetti, yes.
Deputy Mayor Murphy, no. Mayor Clark, yes. You two are remarkable. So are you. So are you. Yeah. I shared this a week ago. If you wanted to give input on it, you could have. I didn't hear from you, Margie. Mark, I heard your response and it was just said anything different. You don't have any other ideas how to
make this better? How do we get a fifth? Wait till we I have no other new ideas than what I said months ago. So which was what? Which was we should have taken care of it then. And no. Do you have a process or a way to move forward that's has improved the way we've been doing it
that improves things. It does. The way we've been doing it, we didn't need to change it right then and there. It's useless. It's pointless. It is. You're right. Mayor, could we take a fiveminute recess? Sure. Um take a motion for a fivem minute recess. May I have a second?
Why don't we just uh second? And all in favor say I. I. I. All right. The meeting is uh back in section. I I said I Okay. Um so
an important thing that I failed to do um we had folks during the meeting sort of call out from the from the seats. Um, and that's just not appropriate. Uh, you know, if you if you wanted to address the the council, there's the opportunity
to do so. Um, and so going forward, I didn't cut people off or say stop yelling from the, but I I should have. Um, otherwise the meeting could devolve into a cacophony of people shouting from the from the audience. So, um, you know,
going forward I I'll be a little more strict with that. Again, you can come to the microphone. No need to kind of yell from the off from the uh from the stands. Um so just I'll say that. All right. We are now at the final um p open
to the public comment period. Anyone wishing to be heard? Joanne Skellyy Sparta. Um I just about the zoning board. I was at the zoning board meeting um this past uh meeting and there was three on there for dev variances waiting to be heard. One got
heard elite trucking thankfully um they lost um but that two others sat there all night with their attorney then they were told to come back on October 202nd and now we hear that's canceled. Is that fair that we have these openings and uh
these businesses that want to do business in town or put their billboard or whatever um can't be heard because we you guys can't come to a consensus on having additional members that are needed. Um and my other um statement is
um you saying about ambush. I really don't think that was it ambush because it could be an ambush every time the majority of three can um outvote the two. So you could call it an ambush every time there's a vote you don't
like. But it was um quorum. Um the town attorney says it's a quorum. It was not an ambush. So I think you should stop using that word so frequently. I I don't know, probably a dozen times used it tonight. Um, it's not a word that should be used. I thank you. Have a good night.
I just have a comment though, respectfully, Miss Scully. I I know we disagree on this, so I I I personally did see it as that. Um, oh, I won't go into the details, but there's the background and the context of There you are. Um, it was inappropriate in my opinion. That's But I appreciate your
your perspective on it. Yeah. Yeah. Denny Derek's tap into Sparta. Two things. The first is just asking for an update on the land on the uh solar farm. I don't have an update. Nothing new. Not not much has changed since last we spoke.
Okay. And do we have any update on any of the litigation related to Diamond Chip? Just three cases. I'll leave that to our attorney to to answer. Um, unfortunately, probably nothing that we can discuss in a public forum by way of
an update. Okay. No rulings by the court, though. Correct. That's what I'm looking for. Thank you. And then finally, I know you don't discuss a prop a ordinance on its first reading, but it has been the practice to explain why you need this ordinance. So
would you please tell why we need 2518 the digitization of township uh documents? Well, when we have the hearing, we'll talk about it more. I'm not asking for the merits. I'm asking why we need it, which is a
practice. This is a long-standing practice to explain. Actually, this will benefit you, Jenny. Okay. And that is is that by us digitizing our files, we're actually behind uh from a lot of other towns. um you save space, you increase security, you make it much
easier to find and query documents uh especially Oprah documents uh and whatnot. Um what motivated this was uh I recently uh inherited 198 boxes of legal documents from Latty
Clark and Ryan and I have to find a place to put them and they're good documents. I I don't want to get rid of them. So digitizing them and and archiving them and organizing them properly so they're searchable uh is
would be a very beneficial process and uh what I had done was I had discussed this with the council. They're familiar with the process. A lot of towns are doing this. Uh this is also a pilot. I'm I'm hoping to sell the process with all the clerk files. Roxan will tell you
she's loaded with files. uh she's by regulations uh abide by holding on so many files before the others get destroyed. But if we can archive them digitally and have access to them in perpetuity, that's the way to go. Uh and the best part of this is what we did in
this evening's meeting was we actually closed out a lot of extra monies that we had from prior capital improvement projects. they go back into the capital improvement fund and then I was able to we we introduced an ordinance to to establish this ordinance here which
would establish monies for the digitization. So it it's not new debt. It it's it's it's money we already had allocated. It's just we you have to formalize it in in a new ordinance. And uh I believe that this will be a real benefit to the residents to to everybody
uh in getting our technology up to date. Uh and that that's really what that's about. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. I I'll just say my response to when this got proposed to me was hallelujah. Um, you know, you know, it
reminded me of when, you know, back when I was practicing law in the in the early 2000s, we'd have to do find documents by going through boxes. And it just sort of astonished me that's how we still do it here in Sparta. Um, and that's that takes time from our clerk. It takes time
that could be spent on other things simply trying to find a document. And so, um, I'm I'm looking forward to hopefully we can go fully digital, searchable. Uh, I can tell you that when you have that and you have that access and you can get it quickly, um, it saves
a lot of time, effort, and expense. And we have had instances where we couldn't reportedly find something and then we eventually found it after we dug through a sufficient number of boxes. So, I'm looking forward to this actually becoming a reality. So,
okay. Think there's anything else? May I have a U. Anyone else for public comment? See none. May I have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor say I. I. I.
The motion carried. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming and thank you online.