on YouTube. No new testimony or new applications to be heard after 9:30 p.m. and the meeting will adjourn at 10 p.m. sharp. Also, formal action tonight may or may or may not be taken on the
applications being heard here. Advocate notice of this meeting was provided in the New Jersey Herald. It was also posted on the Sparta Township website and it bulletin board in accordance with all provisions of the open public meetings act.
It's the practice of this board to salute the flag. Please rise and join us. >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for its nation andice for all.
Please call the role. Marissa >> Michael Joicc >> here. >> Richard Larupa >> here. >> Michael Leandi >> here. >> Richard Roarbacker >> here. >> Jennifer Paha >> here. >> Michael Steyberg >> here. >> Chairman Kenneth Larry >> here. >> Glenn Keats >> here.
>> Also have one announcement to make tonight in regards to our board attorneys. Glenn Keats. He's over here. Glenn was one of the recipients of the NJPO award this year and that's the New Jersey planners official
and also they have a brief statement on Glenn's experience which I'd like to read into the record. With decades of devoted service to the NJPO, Mr. Ke has been a driving force behind the organization's mission to support local officials and land use professionals.
His leadership extends beyond advisory roles. He has been instrumental in shaping the resources of many municipalities that rely on him every day. Among his most notable achievements is his authorship of the guide to
planning and zoning boards of adjustment, a cornerstone publication that has guided countless officials through nuances of their responsibilities. Additionally, Mr. Keat's long-standing editorial stewardship of the municipal land use law publication has ensured
consistent, accurate, and accessible updates to one of the most critical legal frameworks in the New Jersey planning. >> Congratulations again, Glenn. >> We have one resolution to be memorialized.
Uh application 1-25 Lewis Peralta 20 Morris Lake on B variance which was decided on September 10, 2025. I'll make that motion and do I have a second? Jennifer, >> second. >> Any discussion? Jennifer, >> no.
>> Thank you. Marissa, please call the role. >> Jennifer Paha. >> Yes. >> Chairman Kenneth Larry. >> Yes. The applications on the agenda tonight are the following. Application 6-23,
Elite Truck and Tire, 409 Woodport Road for D1 use variance and bulk variances. Storage of tires and trailers and tire recycling are not permitted in that zone. And that was carried from our
61125 meeting. We had no addition with additional notice. Application 7-2566 Woodport Road for D1 use variant since billboards are
not permitted in that zone. And that was carried from our August 13th, 2025 meeting with no further notice. Also application 10-25 Hela Properties Partnership at 11 and 12 Main Street
for D1 use variance since a use and principal structure is not permitted in that zone. Also bulk C variances and the application is for a fitness studio. The last application will be carried to
the November 11, 2025 meeting with no further notice required. It's the Thomas and Kathleen Utah application 22 East Shore Trail in Lake Mohawk for sea variances. After the applications are heard
tonight, I'll open the hearing to the public for any questions or comments you may have on items not on the agenda tonight. Elite and Truck and Tire, come forward, please. Thank you, chairman, members of the
board. My name is Richard Skolnick. I have my own law firm. I'm representing Elite Truck and Tire LLC. And as I think you all know, my client was originally represented by Mr. back at the June hearing. He had a
conflict and I've now stepped in to continue the matter. If it's okay, chairman, I'm going to take a few minutes to try to get us back into it and then tell you what I'm going to try to accomplish tonight. Is that okay? >> Sure. Let me just explain our format here too, Mr.
>> After you're finished presenting and your professionals presenting your applicants uh application, our board professionals, Mr. Simmons and Miss Knight will give their reports. After they're finished, our board members who have questions and comments
will go next. After we're finished, we'll open it to the public. Okay. We're here to address the issues for sure. If I may, chairman, I'm just going to hand out an exhibit that was previously marked in June. This is just a copy just to orient the board a little
bit. >> What was it marked as? A1. >> This was A1. And uh Mr. Skolick too. Is that how you pronounce your last name? Skull >> Skolnick. Too many letters in there. >> Just for the public too. As you know, it's a Darian. You'll need five
affirmative votes to approve it. If it is approved, of course, it's tied to the land in perpetuity. >> Please proceed. How can we help you? >> And everybody here tonight is eligible to vote. Is that right? >> Okay. Just want to make sure that Mr.
>> Mr. Ke and I have been on many panels together. I certainly know that we need five votes for a D. Uh so the address is 409 Woodport Road identified as block 2004 lot one.
Back in June you heard testimony from my client Jose Zometa Fred Stewart the civil engineer here was here and Matt Flynn. Then, chairman, there were some questions and comments from members of the public, but you didn't finish up
with the public comment period. Uh, on August 13th, Mr. Stewart's office submitted revised plans with a detailed letter addressing many of the issues in the April 4 PO review letter. And we also submitted a report from Eric
Keller, a traffic expert. He submitted some vehicle turning plans and templates to address some of the concerns that had been raised by the board and members of the public about truck circulation to confirm that it's safe ingress and egress issues. There
were concerns about sight distances. There were concerns about the truck route. And I'm going to have Mr. Keller as our first witness to address these issues in a little more detail. Mr. Keller's report also refers to some DOT traffic studies that were done a few
years back. So, we have some overall approximations of the car and truck traffic in the area. He's going to discuss that. Chairman, I'm going to note that Mr. Stewart had some surgery yesterday. He reports he's doing well,
but he was not able to testify tonight. So, Mr. Keller is also a civil engineer. The changes were relatively minor. So, we've asked Mr. Keller to review those plans and go through those relatively minor uh plan changes as a substitute
engineer. Uh in the interim months, we also hired a fire expert and he had conversations with your fire officials and they were out in the field and we now have Mr. McIntyre's September 29 memo
and he says quote there are no issues or concerns with the proposed operation as related to the NJ uniform fire code. So we happy to report that we believe we've uh complied with or satisfied in
substantial part the concerns of the fire officials. So chairman after Mr. Keller, I'm going to put my client back on just for five minutes to sort of recap what the operation is that's proposed. We'll do the same with the
planner ultimately, Mr. Flynn. As you noted, I've renoticed for the hearing. And I just want to uh set the table for the board about uh what we believe to be the minor nature of the application. Uh I wouldn't term it as a recycling
facility. This is really a transfer place for the tires. You heard some testimony. The tires are going to come in and SU single unit 30 trucks. My client has three of them and then the tires are going to be
transferred into the larger tractor trailers. But the tires will not be outside. The two trucks back up against each other and the tires will not be outside. There's going to be no storage of tires. Everything is going to be
inside those trucks. I know everyone here knows uh we uh all pay a recycling tax. There's a requirement that tires uh be recycled. And my clients uh have basically uh created a business to solve the problem of picking up the tires from
all those individual tire stores. Um again, the tires never hit the ground. They don't go outside. They're not stored outside. Uh the larger trucks leave the site only
three times a week. Only three times a week. So we're talking about one truck, one large truck coming off of that property fewer than once a day. That was the testimony. We're going to do a quick summary of
that. We're also located in the ED zone which permits warehousing and it permits manufacturing and fabrication. So the governing body clearly contemplated some degree of truck traffic on this site because a warehouse would be
permitted. We're going to suggest to you that the use of the site for one truck three times a week is consistent and actually less intense than other permitted uses on the site. Chairman, finally, there's one issue that I'd like
to really discuss forthrightly with the board and and and address it uh with you. uh because I sense from reading the transcript that there was a concern uh obviously the board's concerned with
what's proposed this transfer of the tires but I sensed also that the board is also concerned about what this use could become could it change into over
time could it morph into a junkyard could it morph into outdoor for storage of tires. And I I am going to suggest to the board that this can be controlled with conditions of approval, of course,
if appropriate. And if the board hears the testimony and thinks that the use can make sense, we do. We think it's a good property. It's a suitable property in our parl, Lance. We think it's a suitable property for what's proposed
and that the board can impose conditions that can prevent those problems that I think folks are reasonably worried about. Outdoor storage of tires because that's not proposed here. A junkyard,
repair trucks, a whole series of other things that my client does not want to do and is prepared to agree to conditions. So, what I've done is um created a list for the board's consideration. I'm going to mark it as A2.
I called it proposed conditions of approval and I'd like to pan that out. I >> think maybe did everybody get I think already people got copies, >> but maybe you ought to put it if there's any public hearing. >> You have them. >> I don't have it with me. All right.
>> Does everybody >> I'll take one. >> We need a couple of I'm sorry. >> Yes, please. You don't need >> Thank you. Thank you. >> I have it. >> I don't want to be >> have it, but
>> we know we have to meet our proofs. Oh, >> you know, we have to meet our proofs, but and this is something ultimately for the board in a resolution, but these are, I think, some excellent concepts to
uh allow a use that serves recycling and that can be contained, but not turn into that other thing that the board is reasonably concerned about. Again, just uh some suggestions on how to ultimately
control and we're a board of adjustment and conditions obviously are appropriate under this circumstance. So, chairman, I thank you for allowing me to go on a little bit long, but it's been a couple of months. I took over the case. Uh so,
I wanted to sort of bring it uh to you. Uh we have Mr. uh Keller for the traffic testimony, a little bit on the civil engineering, and then a quick recap by my client just on the use and then a quick recap on the planner. Good.
>> Okay. So, I'm going to call Mr. Keller. >> Good evening, everyone. >> Do we have to Oh, swear him. >> Okay. Um >> Eric, >> thank you, Mr. Okay, Eric, I'm just going to remark your report as a Glenn.
Do we need to mark the can? >> Eric, raise your right. Do you stand and tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth proceedings before the board tonight? >> I do. >> Who? >> Eric L. Keller, K L E, vice president with Bowman Consulting Group, six campus
drive, Pipany, New Jersey. >> You're a licensed professional engineer. And when else >> I I am a licensed planner, but I am not testifying as a planner this evening. Uh my area of expertise in in civil engineering is traffic engineering. I
appeared before this board in the springtime. Uh and I have appeared before uh many boards. >> Oh, he appeared before the board. Does the board remember him? >> Vaguely. I do.
>> You're not forgettable as you I think that's a good a good position that it did not stand out >> vaguely. Is the board satisfied with Mr. Keller's qualifications? >> Any questions from the board? >> No, we're satisfied. >> Mr. Kellen, please speak uh directly and
clearly into the microphone since it's a state requirement that we have a recording of all proceedings. >> Certainly. >> Thank you. >> Which plan do you want me to put up first? The site plans. >> Uh why don't we do the site first and then you come to the track.
I'm going to put >> When are we going to mark this? >> Um, these are the plans that were submitted to the board. >> We're not going to mark them. >> So, these are plans prepared by Steuart Surveying and Engineering LLC. There are four sheets. They are last revised
August 12th of this year. Um, and these were submitted as part of uh the application. >> Okay. >> And they are not marked or noted in any fashion. >> And you obviously spoke with Mr. Stewart a couple of times.
>> Yes. >> And you reviewed the plans even though they weren't prepared by your office. You're you're familiar with the changes that were made. >> AB: Absolutely. We worked together. Um, obviously I'm kind of new to this application along with Mr. Skolnick uh
brought in to really handle traffic. As part of that, we reviewed the site plans, worked with Mr. Stewart um because the truck maneuvering plans that uh were prepared by my office based upon the site plans that Mr. Stewart prepared. So, we work collaboratively on
those. Um, so there were a couple things that we wanted to go over and just uh for the record, I do have Mr. Simmons uh latest memorandum dated September 4th of this year uh which was a review letter
of these plans um to go through and certainly when we get to the appropriate time, Mr. Simmons and everybody will ask me whatever questions that I didn't cover or that I didn't
answer thoroughly enough. Um the existing pavement on site as Mr. Simmons indicated uh has uh deteriorated that pavement is going to be repaired and then resurfaced. That is noted on
the plans. Um the we are requesting a variance for the height of the fence. uh six feet is permitted. We're asking for eight feet. Mr. Flynn will talk about the planning reasons for that. Um from an engineering perspective, we selected
an 8-oot fence because what we're trying to do is to minimize the view of the trucks and uh vehicles parked on site. Um there is uh a limited window to see
into the site. There are uh wooded areas along Woodport Road and also along the Route 15 southbound ramp. Um so that limits the views into the site and then of course the building the trucks are going to be parked to the side and to
the rear of the existing structure on the property >> on the plan. Can you show the board where the fence is going to go and just talk about the grade changes and about whether that the tractor trailers, the two trailers are going to be seen? >> Going to go to sheet two, which is the
layout plan. Um the build existing building is shaded in. These other three shaded areas are areas that are being created uh planter areas that are proposed um that will have
landscaping and river rock in them. The fence runs from the north is to the uh >> excuse me, Mr. Kell the public. Can you see the maybe you could turn it around a little? So,
>> I'm I'm trying to reach a balance between the board and the public. I mean, you know, people can come up on this side. Um because if I turn it that way, then you can't get it to strip. >> Okay. Thank you. So, north is to the top
left. So, the planted area to the uh west of the existing building, there's a fence with a 20 foot wide gate that runs from that planted area to the corner of the existing structure. And from the
southeast corner of that structure uh in a southerntherly direction towards the Route 15 ramp, there is another fence and gate also 20 ft in width. the uh trucks, the single unit trucks are going to be parked in the southeast corner of
the site. Um and then the uh tractor trailers, two tractor trailers um are noted to be in the northwest corner of this site. Um so the topography of that area where the tractor trailers are,
which are the bigger vehicles, is about 8 feet lower than Woodport Road. when you come into the site, that parking area north of the building drops down quite a bit. So, an 8 foot, you know, from a driver's eye at 3 and 1/2 ft to
an 8ft fence, that sight line is going to be over those trucks because they're also sitting down low. The trucks in the rear are significant distance off of Woodport Road. That area is at about at the same grade as Woodport Road where
you come in. But again, driver's eye to an eight foot fence. Most that you might see the top of the truck, but it's tucked off into the corner. So, it's really only traffic that's headed south on Woodport Road that may catch a
glimpse of it when they, you know, see it be past the building and and into the site. >> So, let's just go over that for a second. The the two proposed trailers, they're going to be on the left side on the drawing to the north. That's correct. But we got an 8 foot proposed fence there. Yes.
>> And we're gonna That's uh we included a picture of that in Mr. Stewart's report. We added it here. But if you have Mr. Stewart's report, that's at the back. I could mark this if we don't mind. This is the planner exhibit. >> Okay.
>> This the pictures you passed out tonight. >> That's a one that was marked in June. >> All right. So what you're talking about is not part of A1. part of some photos the plan are put together, but it it shows this the same
fence that's attached to Mr. Stewart's letter, >> right, >> Mr. Flynn? will testify to the authenticity of these. Why don't >> Yes. >> Just stand up quick. It's just I'm kind
of dealing with this out of order on their own. >> Rich, I'll take care of it. Let's just get him to a mic. >> Matt, you can use that. >> Matt, just identify yourself for the record. >> Yeah. Matt Flynn, professional planner. >> You testified on this application before
and you were sworn in at that time. Correct. >> That's correct. And you were qualified as a licensed professional player in the state of New Jersey and your license is valid still as of tonight? >> Yes. >> Did you take or are you at least familiar with the photos that council just handed out? >> I believe that so that photo as council
mentioned is from the engineers uh letter that was sent to that was submitted as part of the application. Um I believe that that is a a uh an example of the type of fence that we would be proposing. I want to ask you is you're familiar with it to some extent. They're
not photo enhanced or anything else and they accurately represent what we're talking about. And the second page has some trucks on it and the third page has some uh inside the trucks with tires. >> And I guess we'll get some testimony once we get the owner up on those. But at least we can make a proper that
that's what these show. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Simply put, pages two and three were taken by the applicant just showing the nature of the operations. >> You can go back to your chair. >> Thank you. Thanks, buddy. >> Thank you, councelor. Uh, so chairman, I just want to try to for a second bring
out this point. Eric, uh, there's going to be this proposed 8ft fence and an 8ft drop behind that. In your, uh, view, looking at the site, driving around there, you think the tractor trailers are going to be quite difficult to see? >> Yes, absolutely.
>> Okay. >> I've driven I've driven by the site many times. I live in Andover Township, so I'm familiar with the area. I'm familiar with the site. Came by there tonight as a matter of fact. So, um it's from a lot of experience. Um another change that we
made, the plans previously had shown uh six spaces for single unit trucks. Um the applicant, and he will testify briefly on this, currently operates three trucks. Um uh we have made a provision on the plan to have four
trucks, four truck spaces. Right now they only have three, but we wanted to make an allowance. So that's a reduction of the prior plan where we had six. >> Okay. And these trucks, these are the smaller trucks that go pick up the tires. >> Correct. >> Okay. And and just point that out again where that's going to be.
>> The the three of them are in the southeast corner of the site. The fourth one is next to the tractor trailers, which again will sit down low and and that truck if there was a truck parked there would never be seen because the tractor trailer would block the view of
that truck. Um there um in discussing this with the applicant, I had num numerous conversations with the applicant. They're running three trucks. Each truck has a driver and a helper. So
there's six employees u when they're running those three trucks. Not everybody drives generally they car poolool. So there would be on a given day uh Monday through Friday when they work there would be three maybe four
cars if somebody you know needs to drive by themselves. So there's only a handful of cars um to bring the employees to work. Once they get to work they park their cars. They get into the single unit trucks, um, drive and pick up the
tires, and then they come back, transfer the tires directly from the single unit truck, and and that's in exhibit A1. Uh, the the single unit truck backs up to the tractor trailer. They transfer them from the small truck into the large
truck. And I'll talk more about that when I get into u my traffic testimony. I mentioned before the three landscape beds that are are proposed. We are proposing not to curb them. Um we're proposing to they'll be landscaped and
it will be river rock in there so that those areas will be stable. Um any runoff that way we're not diverting runoff uh into areas where it doesn't go. will sheet flow into the river rock and disperse through that river rock and
continue to maintain the the flow patterns that exist today. Um the light fixtures have the color temperature of the light fixtures has been reduced to 3,000 Kelvin. That is a very kind of uh
daylight um not a bright white light. So it's a much more natural light. Um the uh plans were also revised to increase the width of the gate. It was originally 16 feet. Now it's 20 feet. And we and
they uh did add ballards at the gas meter uh which is on the northeast side of the building. Um that gas meter is already there. Um but we place ballards in front of that to protect that. um to
allow for emergency services personnel to get in there. If the gates are closed, each gate will be provided with a Knox box that will allow fire, rescue, police to get into the rear area if there is a need to do so. Um and uh as
far as there is no approvals needed from the NJD land use group for u these improvements because all the improvements are within existing uh paved areas or otherwise disturbed
areas Mr. Simmons has indicated um there are regulated areas on and adjacent to the site as far as wetland transition areas, repairarian zones, and so on, but none of the work is in areas that aren't
already disturbed. So, no approvals are needed for that. And I believe, did I get everything in Dave's letter? Uh oh, just one point. Um want to confirm there would plans had shown area for
forklifts. They have no need for forklifts. They never intended to use forklifts. Uh and uh we have removed that from the uh the plans. Um and I think I think that covers
everything on that. Um >> those are the site plan. >> Those are the site plan revisions. Correct. >> Again, fairly nominal in in nature. So I prepared a traffic memorandum. It
was it's dated August 12th of this year. Um and we what we went through to put this together was as I said a number of conversations with the applicant, the
operator of this business. um visits to the site, observations made by myself of site distance measurements on the plans, and we also prepared uh a truck maneuvering plan, which I will get to in
a minute. As I indicated, um they're currently running three trucks. Each truck has two uh employees within it. Um they have a lot of customers and the applicant will discuss this further. They have a lot of uh customers in
Sussex County. Um and having a facility in this location will help facilitate that business um of picking up used tires that the tire shops and the gas stations um have to get rid of. Um as
you as Mr. Skolnick indicated we all pay a tax when we or a fee when we get new tires to get rid of the old tires um and get rid of them in a environmentally conscious way. So, they pick up the
tires, the the employees come in uh before 7:00, generally around 6:30. They come in um plan their route, have their roots, get their assignments. They go out about 7:00
um and drive around, pick up the tires from all of the shops. They're generally back to this facility. Their trucks are full by about noon time. Um the as I said the trucks the single unit
trucks back up to the tractor trailer you know tailtotail and they just transfer them from one truck to the other. The tractor trailers when they're full um leave to a disposal site. They have
one in Lakewood, New Jersey and they have another one in Pennsylvania. Um, and where it is in Pennsylvania escapes me. Not really important. Um, and two to three times a week, depending on how
many tires they've picked up, those tractor trailers are going to leave this site. Generally between one and three because, you know, they're a they don't want to be in traffic either. Um, and they have a fairly long drive to get to
either Lakewood or to Pennsylvania. So they're leaving uh you know again all off peak hours to travel to um those locations. Now we all know there's a concrete median in Woodport Road. This
section of Woodport Road um has uh two lanes going northbound with a concrete median that limits the movements into and out of this site to right turns. So, if you're coming from Sparta to get into
the site, you have to go up to the Blue Heron Road interchange, make the loop, and come back. Um, if you're leaving the site, you have to drive north on Woodport Road. Woodport Road is a state
highway. It's designated a State Route 181. Um, so they're using a state highway to travel north to the Sparta Avenue jug handle. Um, that jug handle and then
Sparta Avenue is still a state highway. They will then and this is all shown on the figure on the last page or the fourth page of my report um which is just the Google maps
designation. I picked this the site as the the original origin boy English is a second language. Um and then some point down on Route 15 and I just showed the area. So, >> can you put that up on the board or we
don't have it? >> I'm a little confused. Uh, Eric, was this or Rich? Was this part of the application >> or do you want this marked into evidence council? >> Part of the application documents. We submitted it. >> You submitted it as part of the application because we received it on August 14th. So,
>> not the original application, but >> but Okay, that's fine. So, we don't need >> I I was not hired until later in the process. >> But you you prepared this and this is your report, right? >> This is my report. Okay. >> The report by Bowman, um, it is digitally signed on the front cover.
>> Got it. >> By myself. >> We're good. >> So, um, so could you just go over that route again? And the concern from the board from back in June was trucks on local roads. And we've we've established that the larger truck is is three per week,
not even one per day. >> Correct. >> And and and you as a traffic expert traced out the route and that's what you're trying to show. >> Correct. >> Okay. Can you say that again? >> From the site, which is located in the bottom right corner, they travel north
on Woodport Road, aka Route 181. They take the jug handle up Sparta Avenue. Again, still Route 181. They make the right onto 517 County Road and then they enter onto State Route 15 and head south and go on
to either um Lakewood or Pennsylvania. >> So, no local roads. >> No local roads. >> And and from a traffic engineering standpoint, uh is this a a preferred situation for larger trucks when you can? >> Yeah. I mean, state highways and county
routes are designed and um appropriate for truck traffic. I mean, along that route, you have the CVS, you have the stop and shop, you have Ocean State Job
Lot, you have other retail businesses um that are running large trucks. You have the post office that has they don't necessarily have tractor trailers, but they have single unit trucks. So that these are the routes. There are no local
routes that this facility will need to use to get from here onto Route 15. Um, and as I said, inbound traffic, the access is fully uh provided through the
Blue Heron Road interchange, whether you're headed north on 15, south on 15, even if you're headed south on Woodport Road, you can make use the two loop ramps at that interchange to make a U-turn and come back. um
>> safety at the ingress and egress point. Did you take a look at that? >> I I did. So, I just want to um I'm almost there. So, the the number of employees, we're talking about three or four vehicles that are arriving on site
before 7 a.m. You're talking about three single unit trucks that are leaving the site uh by 7:00. Um and um you're talking about the tractor trailer
tractor trailer leaving early afternoon again off peak and then what the other employees are leaving the site. Um once they've transferred the tires from the small trucks to the tractor trailer,
they're leaving the site. So uh all of that activity occurs during off peak hours. the amount of traffic is negligible. I mean, it's less than 20 vehicle trips a day. Um, and this is a
site that's in the ED zone. Mr. Flynn will talk more about the planning reasons. Um, but you know, this is a zone that permits other uses that would be more intensive from a traffic operations perspective.
um >> like a warehouse, >> a warehouse, >> fabrication, >> right? The other uses that are um permitted. Um so one of the things that came up that I
was asked to look at was site distance. How what is what is the maneuverability? What is the the uh safety of somebody leaving this site? This site has been there for a lot of years. It's next to a
ramp coming off of Route 15. Um, and I took measurements from the site driveway looking uh to the south towards the Route 15 interchange. Um, and there
is sufficient sight distance uh to view approaching vehicles. Yes, we do need to uh clear some trees. Those trees are within the state rightway. Um those will require a permit from the state. Um, but
those tree clearing which would be done by the applicant also benefits traffic that's coming off of that ramp from southbound Route 15 where that traffic can make uh a left, can go straight
across or make a right-hand turn. And you know that removing those trees also improves the sight lines from that ramp to traffic that's headed south on Woodport Road. >> So you looked at the speeds and the distances.
>> I'm getting there. >> Okay. >> The we base that determination of adequate sight distance and safety based on a couple of things. The posted speed limit on this roadway is 35 miles an
hour. When we look at sight distance, we uh the we don't look at the posted speed, we look at the design speed, which is posted plus 5 miles an hour, so that's 40 miles an hour. We also because this part of Woodport Road is on a
curve. I also looked at the curvature of the road and I'm using all of our industry reference materials primarily the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials ASHTTO design manual and for a roadway
curvature of um I need my report back. that Woodport Road is the safe travel speed is 39 miles an hour. Now, when we look at stopping sight distance, we look
at safe travel movements. We're basing that on a wet roadway condition, not dry roadway conditions. Dry roadway conditions, stopping sight distance is shorter because you don't lose that tire to pavement friction that you do when
the roadway is wet. Um the stopping sight distance um for 40 miles an hour which is also the safe travel speed is 305 ft. The available sight lines based on my
measurements are 340 ft. So there is we're not just meeting it, we're meeting it plus some based upon a travel speed of vehicles exceeding the speed limit. Um
so based upon those observations in the field and based upon the analysis there is more than sufficient sight lines and the ability for an approaching vehicle to stop um before that truck, you know,
if they happen at the same time that exact same moment when that truck three times a week pulls out, there's more than enough time for that vehicle to stop. Just to put it in context, if the road was dry, stopping sight distance or
stopping distance is 265 ft. It's 40t shorter because there's a higher friction factor. Now, we also looked at um there was some data that the DOT had on traffic volumes um from 2019 pre-
pandemic. Um Woodport Road and this was a uh count just to the north um has it that part this section of Woodport Road has a traffic flow of about 9,200 vehicles a day in both directions. We're
talking about adding 20 total trips per day. It's less than it's about.1%.1% of the total traffic. Now, in that traffic stream on Woodport Road today, there are truck traffic, single unit
trucks and larger that were uh contained in the data from the DOT. Um, there's about 250 truck trips on Woodport Road on a typical day. We're talking about adding
three small trucks and one tractor trailer every other day. Essentially, um, it's about a 2% increase in truck traffic on that road, which is negligible.
um you count a a road on any given day and you're going to see a fluctuation in the amount of traffic on that roadway that exceeds that. So that's within the daily variation that you would have. So,
um the this use would generate a very very small amount of traffic um onto a road that currently handles a significant amount of traffic total and a significant a fair amount of truck traffic. So, this use would not
materially impact on the operations of Woodport Road. The driveway will operate safely. Um and the um activities associated with this are very minor in
nature. Uh low inensity use within a zone that you know could permit uh uses that would have uh a much greater impact and intensity on the roadways and on uh the site. as you understand that no
weekend use other than maybe a visit uh to use the site as an office. That is correct to so there's no these these the larger trucks are not going to be there on the weekends at all. >> They're they're they'll be there, but they're not being they're not moving on and off the site. >> Okay.
>> The the truck activity is Monday to Friday. Do you see any issues with potential illegal U-turns and un unsafety given the way you understand this operation here? >> I I given the uh the the nature of
Woodport Road um the extent of that median um you know there's no way for any of those trucks to make an illegal U-turn um around that meeting. they're going to travel north um and and get on
route 15 at 517. >> So there's a a reasonable and safe truck route without the use of local roads. Is that correct? Correct. >> That is correct. >> And and you've done your analysis and according with all traffic engineering uh standards and you find the ingress
and egress to be safe. >> I do. >> Uh and you find the the change here negligible. >> Correct. uh and compared to other permitted uses. What do you think about that in terms of some other things that could be here? >> I I I can't, you know, in looking at
this application, looking at this operation, I can't imagine anything that really is going to be a less intense use than this. This is about as low intensity as you can get. >> And we also submitted the truck turning
templates. We're not going to talk about that in detail, but they they confirm that the trucks can maneuver around safely, right? >> There's any questions you can answer? I can answer that, but those were asked for. So, chairman, we appreciate it. We know this has gone on, but that we understood this to be a significant issue. The community was worried about
the safety. The community was worried about trucks going on local roads, and we brought in an expert to evaluate these issues in detail, give you the information you need to evaluate this application. Any uh other testimony, Mr.
Keller, or you're finished? >> I am finished on my director. >> Who's your next uh professional? >> Uh if it's okay, chairman, I'm going to put my client back on just for some very brief recap testimony, give you a list of some of the stores, and go over it.
Then we're going to put Mr. Flynn, the planner. Okay. >> Is that okay? >> Proceed. Yes. >> Okay. We're going to uh call my client, Angel Zometa. Come on up. We're going to hand out
exhibit. I think we're up to three. >> Mr. Danetta, I'm gonna remind you. You testified at the last hearing, did you not? >> Yes, I did. >> I'm going to remind you, you still got to tell the truth. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Good evening, guys. >> And Angel, you're one of the operators
along with your father-in-law. >> Yeah, that's right. So, as Mr. Keller was saying, uh this operation is Monday to Friday. Come in 7:00 a.m. You know, we usually don't want to hear any rush hour. You know, we drive as well. And we
have multiple stores of the area that we, you know, we service weekly. So, there's a lot of tires there that need to be taken out. >> Some of the stores are uh professional tires. I'm not sure if you guys know them. Uh Discount Tires, the Shell
Station right there in front of a Sparta Tires. Um Newton, um the Honda dealership, all those uh local areas. We service all those people and they rely on us to provide the service for them to get the tires out.
Um we take three trucks out daily. um two drivers, three drivers, uh three helpers, two people per truck. We go out in the morning, come back around noon. Uh once they're full, we back up to the trailers, the big units, unload them by
hand. No need of any equipment, no forklift, nothing. The tires will never touch the ground. No water in them, nothing. No runoff. Once the trailer is full, I myself or my father-in-law, we take the trailers down to Lakewood or
Fleetwood, and we usually try not to hit rush hour as well, cuz it's a big drive. It's a long drive, four, five, six hours. Um, the truck will go out three times a week, no weekends. Maybe we'll come in weekends just to do paperwork.
No trucks going out the weekends. Um the trailers they are permitted to operate all over the state. You know we have to go through the weight scales. They we have two of them. They're always going to be connected on site and um
>> yeah. >> Okay. Two things. Um I marked as exhibit A3. It's a handwritten list of a a bunch of tire places. Did you prepare this for me? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay. I asked you to do it. You sent it over. some of the stores in the area that you go to to retire.
>> This is just around this area. We have multiple other customers that rely on us, you know, to pick up their tires weekly. And being in the area, given the property, the location where it's at, it's easier to access to them driving uh from down south or Jersey City and we
can dispose of them. >> And uh we're not we're not recycling them at the site. We're just a transfer station. So you guys will never see any tires down on the floor. They will never touch uh the floor. They will stay between the trucks and the trailers.
>> Okay. And uh and between us, we uh we prepared these proposed conditions of approval. >> That's right. >> All right. Because we we really want to address what we understood the board's concerns to be about this sort of evolving into or becoming something that
you're not proposing. Just want to go over that with you for the public. >> Everything occurs inside those trucks, correct? >> That's right. >> You're not proposing to store >> No, no storage anywhere. Not inside. Only inside the the trailers or the
single units. >> Okay. And the trailers back up and the and you and your workers physically move the tires from the smaller SU30 trucks to the larger tractor trailer. >> Yeah. I sent some pictures over. I'm not sure if you guys have them, but um
that's how you know the trucks back up to the trailers and they're hand um unloaded into the um trailer. >> Okay. And you're agreeable to all the conditions that I put forward in that exhibit to give the the board and the community comfort that you won't have
any tires uh outside. >> Yes, we are. >> Okay. And you understand your the larger uh two trucks, they're going to be behind the fence and sort of down the hill a little bit. >> That's right. >> Okay. And then uh we uh you have three of the smaller trucks right now. We asked for four parking spaces. Maybe
your business will grow slightly in the future. Who knows? >> Yeah. Or a truck breaks down. We always u you know want to be prepared. >> Um so um there was some issues from one of Mr. Pel's letter that the existing building you're really just going to use
that for an occasional office spot. I guess maybe in the morning before you go out you you congregate and have a cup of coffee or something. >> That's right. >> Okay. The second floor is accessible only from the outside. >> Yes. Is >> that correct? >> That's correct. >> Okay. You're not changing the HVAC system in any way? >> No.
>> You're not producing any any real garbage here? >> No. No. In uh in any way, shape, or form. Um you're willing to work with uh the the town on the lighting, but you really don't need much lighting because you're really out of there. So, you could put something on timers if they if
they wanted, but you're really >> not operating during the nighttime hours. >> No, we're not. >> Uh um and we talked about uh your hours and uh the tractors, Mr. Keller mentioned that you really like to get
out of there before the larger tractors. So, you go out in the morning 7 to 12ish. >> That's right. Um, we're flexible with our so we always try to time it, you know, not to hit any traffic. It's unconvenient for a lot of people and us as well. You know, we don't want to be sitting there with a lot of smaller
truck cars. >> You want you want to get home. >> We want We want to get home. >> So So you try to time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Chairman, that really uh concludes I again I appreciate you giving us a chance to sort of sum things up. >> Can I can I make a suggestion? I thought
this is what you were going to do. take about a four minutes to run through the proposed conditions of approval as his direct testimony. >> So, if if he could just um maybe I'll I'll just lead him to get you started
and then you can take off. Okay. So, you're not going to store any fuel on the site. Is that correct, sir? >> That's right. No fuel on site, >> sir. That's correct. As an answer, just answer the question. >> Correct. >> Uh is there going to be any maintenance and repair of equipment on site? >> No. >> Okay. You're not going to do that at
all. How about truck washing? >> No. >> And he Well, you already said there are no forklifts. Um, tires will only be kept inside the box tractor, uh, box truck and the tractor trailer. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> And we got the maximum number. Maximum
number. Uh, the front parking lot is going to be resurfaced. You agreed to that as per David's report. >> Correct. Uh, >> no use on the weekends. >> Correct. Uh you're going to eliminate the parking spaces at the southern portion of the
property. >> Correct. >> Uh propane tanks going to be moved to eliminate the existing encroachment. >> Correct. >> Uh we already talked about lighting. Uh location of the se existing septic tank
is to be f field verified and plans amended accordingly and subject to David's final review and approval or the department of health or whatever David tells you you got to do. Right. >> All right. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh we got the fence detail. Uh S County Planning Board. That's
nothing >> as built. Truck route you agreed to as as outlined by Mr. Keller. Is that correct? >> And your hours of operation, I hadn't heard this actually. 7 a.m. to 400 p.m. Monday through Friday. >> Correct. >> Uh for truck operations, office hours
may be a little extended. >> Correct. So, those are conditions and that's your testimony. Is that correct? Yes, it is. >> What else you got, Mr. Scholman? >> Uh, we have Mr. >> We got that part. What else you got from him? >> We're done with uh we're done with him. >> Okay. And board, what I just tried to do
to get to the chase is go through this list of possible. Okay. >> Uh, chairman, not meant to be an exhaustive list. >> Rich. Rich, they get it. >> Okay. >> Hey, Mr. Flynn, you can come forward, please. And by the way, council, I'm
going to indicate that this was helpful because that's the testimony you're providing. It's helpful for the board to consider it. So, thank you. Thank you. >> Do since I was taking over, there were discussions. Really wanted a chairman to get it in front of the client here
really wants he wants to make it work. He's purchased the property. Uh but he he wants to give the the board and the community. >> We understand, Mr. Mr. Flynn, please proceed. >> Good evening. >> Matt, were you sworn in the last time on
this one? >> I was. >> Okay. So, you're still licensed, aren't you? >> I am. >> All right. >> Actions in the last couple months, Matt. >> And you're still you're still Matt Flynn, right? >> Uh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. We have your exhibit, uh, which
you gave the proper, uh, you got the, um, the pictures from Angel of the operation that shows the workers. That's correct. >> And the fence detail um came from Mr. Stewart's plan. And you just were kind enough to put that all together for so
you have you have that in front of you. >> Okay. You did testify. Uh I asked you to sort of put together your bullet points and um uh and go over some things since it's been a it's been a couple of months uh given we need the D1 use variant. So
could you sort of do a little recap for us, Matt? Yeah, I'm going to try to just boil all of this down again just to uh remind the board on what we're voting on this evening. Obviously, like council mentions, we are looking at a D1 use variance. This use is not explicitly
permitted in the ED zone. It's not explicitly permitted in any zone. It's not a use that I've seen explicitly permitted in any zone in any town because this is a highly unique application. And that doesn't mean that it is a substantially detrimental application or something that's going to
have a negative impact. It just means that this is something that's unique that these zoning ordinances don't spend time on actually carving out uh regulations for. Um so obviously the board's task this evening, as council mentioned, is to determine whether this
site is particularly suitable um for the proposed use. I think there's really three main factors at play here. one, and I didn't really get to this at the last hearing. Um, this is not really a substantial departure from what's permitted per
zoning. Obviously, our traffic expert mentioned the fact that this isn't more intense than many permitted uses. Um, but really, I think what this boils down to is if the tires exited the truck and went into the building and were stored in the building, this would now be a
permitted warehouse. The fact that the tires are going to remain in the truck is actually what's triggering the use variance. Um, so aesthetically, visually, it's really not much different from what you could have here. Fleet vehicles, uh, parking for fleet
vehicles, which could be trucks, um, is a permitted accessory use in the zone. Uh, so again, it's again visually you could have trucks here as of right. It's really just in my view the fact that the tires are remaining in the trucks um and being stored inside the trucks rather
than inside the building. Uh so that's one thing. Secondly, I would say that this is and we saw my exhibit uh A1 there. I'll let the board flip through that. Um I put it in uh into evidence at the last hearing. It's a highly remote property. It's remote
from residential. There's substantial buffering all around us. As the board knows, for a denial of an application, we need to find a substantial detriment. In this case, really, nobody is going to be uh looking at this unless you're driving by. And finally, we talked
about, I think by way of um we put this in through our applicant that this is a highly beneficial land use that no one really talks about or thinks about, but it is something that's necessary um in terms of, you know, these these tires need to go somewhere in order to get
recycled. Again, it's not something that's baked into ordinances, but it is something that I think is important and beneficial. Um, finally, the board wanted to hear I have in my notes that the board specifically asked to hear from a traffic expert at the end of the last
hearing. So, of course, that is why we brought uh Mr. Keller up, hopefully addressing all the concerns that that were outstanding. So, at this point, uh, just to boil everything down from the planning standpoint, I'll just talk briefly about
the use variance. Again, the burden of proof is the site suitability test. I would say that um the clear language of the ED zone where we are situated is that these properties are already acknowledged to have good access to
Route 15. We're not coming up here and profering that we think it has good access to Route 15. The explicit language of the ED zone is that these properties are already acknowledged to have good access to Route 15. That's why
it was zoned ED in the first place. Um, so contextually I think that that proximity to the highway is is is a plus. Also, the remoteness from residential and the buffering. Um, in terms of who's actually going to be looking at this, again, I'll just refer
back to my exhibit A1. In terms of the massing and the overall development intensity, our building coverage is only just under 2,000 square ft. Um, we're allowed to go up to 20,000 square ft. So, the actual size of the building that
we're looking at here is just under 10 times what would be permitted here um in terms of the building massing. Um so, we talked briefly about some of the permitted uses that could go here. Those could all conceivably go in a much larger building that would have a more
visually prominent effect on the streetscape. Uh, finally, spatially, I would say that the size and the shape of the property are limiting factors in terms of what could go on on this property. This is an undersized property, and so maybe some
of those permitted uses would result in a crammed in uh effect, whereas here, this is a nice use of this undersized property. Um, and still well below the lot coverage maximum. So, all of that goes towards site
suitability. I think we can again look at the context. We can look at the visual element. We can look at the massing, the intensity and then as well as the spatial and u I'll say geometric uh properties of the lot. The benefits of the application we look to the municipal land use law purpose a
promotion of the general welfare. Um this is part of the recycling stream here. Again these tires need a place to go in order to get recycled and this is uh that's what we're effectuating here. better delineation of the parking. We're repairing the lot. Um, we're adding that
fencing. We're actually reducing coverage slightly. Uh, purpose G, variety of uses in appropriate locations. I'll fall back on site suitability. Um, and also, uh, noting again that we are compatible with the permitted uses in the zone. Basically,
what I mean by that is if we were in a residential zone, I would have a totally different opinion. But when we look at the uses that are permitted here, this isn't something that's going to adversely affect those uses. Purpose eye, uh, desirable visual environment.
There was a note in the engineer's letter that 56.5% of the site is landscaped. Again, substantially under building coverage as well as lot coverage. Um, we heard from our traffic expert that the trucks will
be substantially shielded from view. I think he mentioned that there's really only a small window while you're driving by that you'll even be able to see the trucks and then you're gone. Um, and that's by virtue of those fences. Uh, finally, purpose M is efficient use
of land. Again, very few changes are actually proposed here and the changes that we are proposing um are really inherent to any any uh new use of the site. Again, repairing the lot, adding security features, lighting, etc.
Um the flip side to that really I think the crux of an application like this is the negative criteria. No substantial detriment to the public or to the zone. We talked about visibility. We talked about the buffering and the fencing. Uh we talked about the fact that the trucks will be lower in elevation from the
street. Um we talked about utilizing the existing building, keeping everything the way it is from a mass and scale perspective. Uh we talked about the scale of the operation in terms of number of employees, number of trucks. Um again echoing what I said at the
outset here that this isn't a substantial departure from what would be permitted. Storage buildings and warehouses are permitted. Parking for fleet vehicles is permitted. Um so really it's it's a matter of the tires not being brought into the building in my view.
Um, again, it's akin to some of the permitted uses uh in terms of uh many other industrial uses that could go here. I won't go through them all. Um, and of course, we just went through that list of the conditions.
Uh, really this is a whatever we want to call this. Um there this is a highly qualified use that is going to be subject to this long list of 20 uh conditions that I think directly address all of the concerns that have been raised at this point. Um so in the
future obviously we know that use variances run with the land. These conditions will also run with the land. So all of that goes towards the use variance. uh to just quickly go through the C relief here. The positive criteria
really is the same as the benefits that I went through for the use. In terms of the negative criteria, the front yard parking, fence height, uh front yarding setback, this is an an ab I'm sorry, this is an abnormally shaped
property. It's slightly undized. Um so I think that when we look at uh what could go here this really is uh these are sort of the conditions that are necessary to affectuate any development which is really the basis of the C1 hardship test but of course I think
there is an element of the C2 test because of all those benefits that we are affffectuating. Uh so I tried to be brief if there's any redirect Rick. Uh yeah. Uh just a couple quick things on the negative criteria.
We have to use that enhanced quality of proof. Do you feel from a planning standpoint we we've met that given the limited impacts here and the limited truck traffic? >> I do and I do want to just add for the record I put on purpose O which was recycling at the last hearing. I think
even if we scratch that from the record, there's still a substantial amount of purposes that are furthered here. And I think the recycling element can be factored into purpose A anyway >> because we're sort of the uh in the stream of recycling. >> Agreed. >> If you if you say you got to recycle,
you got to get the tires from uh those individual stores to the tire recycling plant somehow. It's got to go. There's got to be a transfer spot somewhere, >> right? >> Um okay. So, let's just talk about that enhanced quality of proof for a second.
You have an opinion as to whether that's been met here? >> Yeah, the enhanced burden of proof is the site suitability test. Again, I talked about the context. I talked about the visual element. I talked about the uh conditions of the site itself. So, I think that that's all satisfied.
>> Okay. And we're required under the Medici case to do a reconciliation, right? you touched on this really uh that we have to sort of somehow reconcile the fact that this use is not listed in the ordinance and in the master plan. You talked a little bit
about how this is just such a sort of like a oneoff sort of use that is quite similar. So, do you have an opinion on whether the uh an approval here could be reconciled with the fact that we're not permitted in the zone? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of the
concern was related to trucks and I think this is a zone that explicitly permits several uses that would have truck traffic associated with them. Uh so when we look at this use even though it is highly unique it would be rare.
It'd be unusual, frankly, if it were explicitly called out in the master plan. It does affectuate the purpose of the zone and the introduction of trucks here, as minimal as they are, is not something that's above and beyond what's anticipated. >> And again, the the primary use is the
the tractors here, that's only three, the testimony, undisputed, is three per week, fewer than one per day, >> right? And um you have an opinion on whether that in light of Mr. Keller's testimony creates any detriments?
>> I would say no. And again, just briefly, our building coverage is substantially undersized. We could get a building that's 10 times larger and we could put a permitted as of right warehouse in there. You'd be looking at more trucks for sure with that. >> Okay, chairman. Thank you again. We we
appreciate the latitude that you welcome in terms of a new lawyer coming in and sort of wrapping this up. We know some of this has been repetitive, but we appreciate that. >> You're welcome. So, that's it with your presentation. >> That's it. >> Okay, good. Um, David, would you be so
kind to give your report, please? >> Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, uh, for the record, just referring to the report that we prepared dated September 4th, 2025. Um, as the applicant and his professionals indicated, we reviewed the
latest revision stated 812 2025 as far as Mr. Stewart's plans in addition to the additional information and traffic report and documentation provided by Mr. Keller. Um, with regards to zoning, uh, as everyone is familiar here and the
applicant has stated, they need a use variance for the proposed tire recycling, excuse me, for the proposed transfer of tires and storage in the trailers uh, prior to being uh, transferred. Uh, with regards to some bulk requirements, there are several
areas on the subject property that don't meet the existing bulk requirements. I noted them. They include the lot area, the front yard setback, the rear yard setback, and the maximum impervious coverage. Again, those are existing conditions. The applicant is not
proposing to u increase those deficiencies. Uh we do have the variance that's new for a lot ratio for parking in the front yard where 25% maximum is allowed. I calculated 36.2%.
With regards to the site plan, uh the building is an existing building on the parking lot that's paved but in need of resurfacing. Uh they are proposing to restripe the parking lot to have the uh box trucks, the trailers, and the
various vehicles as noted on their site plan. and including with that signage for ADA compliance space and planter areas for uh landscaping and also some river rock to help with some of the erosion that was noted when I did my
site inspection. And in addition to that, as they described, and it's shown on exhibit I believe it's A1, uh A2, excuse me, a proposed fencing 8T high to help screen the proposed uh vehicles on
site to the extent possible where they're proposing 8T, but 6 feet is allowed. And the one section in the code 18-5.3H1N requires all parking areas to be curbed. The existing parking area is not curved
now. It's basically sheet flow off and that's what they're proposing to continue for this particular site. With regards to parking and loading, uh they did indicate that they aren't going to have the forklifts anymore and they
quantified the number of box trucks and the number of tractor trailers that would be at the site. One question that came to my mind as we're sitting here listening to the applicant's operation, uh, just to get it on the record, by any chance, is there any plan or any
circumstance where subcontractors would come in with additional tractor trailers or box trucks that would provide additional tires if business got so big? >> We could agree to a condition, no subcontractors. Okay. Is
>> that okay? And is there any time I noticed on exhibit A3 where you've got a list of several local uh businesses that use your client. Is there any time when they would bring their vehicles over to this
site to bring tires over? >> My client is indicating that that does not happen condition. Okay. You're you're only going to fetch the tires. They don't there's no drop offs. No, that's the concern. And and my point is there's no
additional traffic generated by other means than what you your client described. >> Good point. We could agree to a condition of no drop off other than the employees. >> Okay. >> And the other question I had was the two tractor trailers with the trailer
attached to the tractor. Uh they leave and go two to three times per week is my understanding. Correct. And my understanding is if they go to Lakewood or someplace out in Pennsylvania, takes four to five hours one way.
>> Okay. >> Well, now listen to the question. He didn't hear you, Dave. >> Pardon? >> He didn't hear you. >> My correct. That's right. >> Okay. My question My question is it takes four or five hours. When do the
tractor trailer come back? Is it in the middle of the night or is it the next morning under normal business hours? No, if it's we leave at 1, usually back around um 5, 6, depends on the traffic. >> Dave, it's five hours round trip. That That's why I made him come up.
>> That That's why I wanted to clarify. >> Exactly. >> Okay. We're on >> then. That was the parking. With regards to storm water, I agree that they are reducing the amount of imperous coverage and in fact,
excuse me, with the sheet flow with no curbing, that is probably the best condition as far as maintaining the existing storm drainage pattern. Uh, and I had noticed some erosion on one of the returns and as Mr. Kellerin earlier, Mr.
Stewart uh commented, they're going to put some river rock in there to stabilize that area. With regards to lighting, uh the one question I've got for the board and the applicant to decide this u there was one condition on the list that they provided
that they would do uh lighting to be amended subject to rep review and approval of the board engineer. My question is what are we all talking about lighting? Are we just talking about around the office building or are we talking around the whole site? Technically, I think the ordinance
requires it the whole site. I just want to make sure if I'm going to be reviewing something, if the board should decide to approve it, that we're looking at something where I'm on the same page and on the same limits as far as what lighting you want. >> You can be talking about that. I just
wanted to bring that question up so we're all thinking about it. >> Thank you. >> Okay. With regards to utilities, they've got the existing well. Uh with regards to the septic system, uh my understanding is and the way I interpreted the testimony was that the
applicant was going to do whatever investigation would be necessary. Maybe it's some test holes to determine the limits of the disposal bed and what have you to make sure it's not within the state rightway. If it is in the state right away, this is what I want to
verify. Then the proposed remedy for that would be to rebuild it out of the rightway. >> I don't know. >> Mr. Scholar, can you speak into the microphone? >> Sure. Sure. Um, we certainly want to
identify its location. Um, if the state came along and said we got to chop up the rightway, then we'd obviously have to move it. I just think it's, you know, could be a significant expense that is not really going to add anything. Is that
>> Well, I guess the main thing I'm concerned about is you're supposed to be with a disposal bed, for example, 10 feet off the property line or the rightway line to the edge of the disposal bed. We're at a point now where we're going to be resurfacing or the applicant's going to be resurfacing the
entire parking lot if we're going to correct something. Now would be the time before it's paved. Just throwing that out. >> I appreciate that >> landscape plan. Uh again, they provided some landscaping and so the board knows they're really utilizing the presence of
existing deciduous trees for credit for most of the landscaping on the site. With regards to the uh architectural plans on the second floor, and I don't remember this to be honest with you, is there plans for an apartment or anybody living on site or no one living on site?
>> So there'll be no rental for apartments. Okay. >> Another agreeable condition. >> Okay. My understanding is that there's not going to be any signs with regards to advertising the business on the site. The building's not sprinklered, not proposed to be. With regards to the
environmental impact statement, I did point out that we've got a C1 water away and area for buffer behind this property and adjacent to it. Uh my understanding is, as Mr. Keller pointed out they're not proposing to expand the disturbed
area. So they probably will not need a D permit for that. With regards to days and hour of operation, from the letter from Mr. Stewart, he indicated the site would be accessible 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. U I think that should just
be clarified. Accessible for what? By that I mean we just talked about five to six hours round trip and be back by about five o'clock Monday through Friday for normal trips. Is there any condition and just so the board and the public knows where
they might on an emergency basis have to access it at 3 the site 3 in the morning with trucks or tractor trailers. >> You ever have emergency tire recycling issues? >> No. >> So really 247 is not what we're looking at really.
Just just to remind you condition number or item number 20 hours operation were 7 am to 4 pm Monday through Friday for truck operations and the office hours uh were permitted on weekends. That was it. >> I think Fred was referring that the
site's not going to be gated. >> You already took care of it. It was in the conditions that they >> understood. Uh with regards to details, um I don't think the applicant would have any problem providing those additional details that are in the report. With
regards to the uh traffic report that Mr. Keller uh pointed out, uh and in particular the site distance as far as stopping site distance for vehicles on the route uh 181 exit ramp. Um, the one
question I've got, and this is just playing devil's advocate because of sight distance issues on that corner, uh, in the wintertime when the state plows that and we get snow banks on the side, how would that factor into the sight distance in the winter time?
>> Mr. Keller. >> Um given the uh vertical alignment of Woodward Road um which you know extends higher as you go to the south. I don't think it's an issue. I mean obviously if it is an
issue the uh operator is going to you know do what he has to to make sure. Remember most of the vehicle well A lot of the vehicles leaving the site are trucks. The truck eye height is 7 and 1/2 ft above ground whereas an
automobile is three and a half ft. Um but if it is an issue, I mean it's him and his employees. Um he's he's going to have to plow his own lot. He's going to go out there and knock that bank down along Woodport Road. But I don't think
it's going to be an issue. Um, one, it's in addition, there's nothing that physically stops like a bridge abutment and you see, you know, piles of snow coming up. You know, the truck the state trucks are going to come through and
it's just going to go off. You know, there's a fairly wide buffer area behind the curb. So, that snow is not going to get piled up. It's uh uh it's going to be spread out over a larger area. >> All right. Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> And then finally, under miscellaneous, I listed a variety of permits that I believe the applicant, if it's approved, would have to be responsible to obtain. Um, with regards, just a couple points on the conditions that were handed out. Um,
final fence detail is subject to number 15, review and approval of the board engineer. If the board uh does decide to grant approval for the application, I'm referring to uh item A or excuse me, exhibit A2, just to make sure that fence
is the type of fence that the board would be interested in having on the site. With regards to item 18, submission of an asbuilt drawing, I just want that added by the applicant's land surveyor, not just a sketch that was provided by
someone else. Uh, with regards to vehicles on site, I would suggest a condition that only vehicles and trailers on site be properly registered for the state and inspected and and approved by the DOT. >> That has to be done.
>> Okay. >> Uh, the trucks have some sort of lensure for their >> just so there's no unregistered or uninspected. >> That's an important condition to address what I think the what the board does not want to have out there. Correct.
>> Is is unregistered junk vehicles. >> Correct. >> And then with regards to number eight, front parking lot to be resurfaced as necessary, subject to review and approval by the board engineer. I heard some discussion tonight about uh resurfacing. And then I heard some other
discussion about repair. Just so the board and the applicant realize, what I'm suggesting and recommending is that any areas of the pavement that are in distress condition be repaired, but that the entire lot be resurfaced with a
minimum of 2 in of pumminous concrete surface course. And that's my report, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, David. Um between the additional presentation this evening and uh Mr. Simmons report the uh balance of my report has been
addressed. >> Could you just explain for the public and the applicant again they keep bringing up this warehouse permitted situation and people might be thinking can a warehouse that's hundreds of hundreds of feet high go there? What type of warehouses are we talking about
right there in that ED zone? Um, so they would still have to follow all the bulk requirements that are within the ED zone. Um, the warehouse in particular has quite a few. I don't have the the ordinance up right now at the moment, but they would have to
be compliant with the bulk requirements as well as parking requirements. There's a number of requirements that would have to be met for a warehouse to be approved in a completely conforming scenario. Um, and also even if it was an application
of a warehouse was to come um to the township of Sparta prior to it being approved, it still would have to go to the planning board to present even if they complied with every piece of the bulk requirements. >> So, so even with a warehouse, you couldn't just come in and get a zoning
permit. You would there's still a process that you would have to follow. >> Thanks for putting that on the record. I appreciate it. >> I'll open the uh hearing to the board members here. Marissa, if you can call on members, please. >> Michael Jipek. >> Yeah. Hi. Um, so my first one is uh with
the hours of operation, the uh condition 20. Uh there's been some conflicting testimony because um here we're saying that the hours of operation are 7 through 4, but then we heard testimony that trucks are going to go, you know, 5 hour round trip and will come back
between five and six. So to me, a return trip driving onto the lot that's operating. So do you need to adjust anything? >> U Angel would want to come up. We we put down four as the time you'd be back. It
it could be that there's traffic or some delay. A truck could come back. So we we appreciate that. >> Yeah, there could be. There's times, you know, accidents, unforeseen circumstances, like we get delayed 2 hours, 3 hours, and you know, that's
something that we can't really control, but we always, you know, try to aim to get back, you know, >> before the time I want to go home, too. I have a little kid, so I want to be there. >> You think five o'clock might be a little bit better buffer. There could be five >> occasional time where you're coming in a little bit later.
>> Yes, that's right. >> You know, that's fine. Um, and then the other question I have >> is there was a lot of testimony about, you know, the visual elements and the fencing. Um, I mean, I'm no arborist, but, uh, a lot of these trees look
deciduous, so that means leaves are going to fall in the fall winter. They're going to be bare. What's it going to look like in terms of seeing the vehicles? Because of I understood the testimony, the fencing is not going around the whole property. >> Eric, you want to try to address that?
need a pen to get that. >> We also have >> You have the exhibit from the last hearing, the A1, you know, that has sort of the aerial photo on it. >> Yeah, they all look deciduous.
>> The the fence is primarily to block the view from the pavement. Mhm. >> It's correct that most of that vegetation along between Woodport Road and where the tractor trailers are going
to be parked is decisions is also lower. Um >> Mr. Kell, could you what's what's >> the the pavement where the tractor trailers are going to be parked is lower.
>> Um so the view Yes. In the wintertime with no leaves on the trees, there would be >> Eric, would you finish your sentence, please? >> Certainly. Um, there would be some view through the
trees. I mean, there that area between Woodport Road and where the truck is parked is also a regulated area. There's a stream there. M >> so um the D regulations allow you to plant um vegetation,
but the variety of evergreen trees that are native and it it would have to be native to be planted in that regulated area and will be viable underneath that tree
canopy is very limited. Mhm. >> So, I'd like to say that we could plant some things in there, but I don't know how much more it would buffer it. Um, but it's a it you know, I'm sure you've
all been by there many many times as I have. Um, and you know, you're you may get a glimpse of the truck there. >> Um, but it it is limited. >> Thank you. That's all my questions.
Reggie Larua. >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm wrestling with several issues on how this becomes a benefit to the township and you you you uh negate the negative issues with having it. Part of part of it has to do with the specific of the applicant and
the other part of it has to do with the uh longevity of once we grant the variance, the devariance for this use, it's in perpetuity as the the chairman had mentioned. Um, a little historic p perspective.
Back in the 1950s, North Jersey was a traffic nightmare. If you had if you wanted to go west, you either went on Route 46 or 206 up to Port Jervis going towards Scranton. So, they built Route 80 and they built Route 15, dualized Route 15. So, you would take traffic off
of 46 and you take traffic off of 206 through the towns, through Newton, etc. and they put the dual eyes section of Route 15 past Sparta to avoid the traffic within downtown Sparta. I I know this because as a child I sat in my parents' car going out to the Poconos on
Route 46 going through every little town along the way and it took forever. Um so they built Route 15. Okay. And they built the dualized portion of Route 15. And when I moved up to Sparta in 1970, it was only opened up to Jefferson. So you had to get off and come up Woodport
Road to go into Sparta. And traffic was bad. Snow in the wintertime. Bad traffic through Sparta and through town. Within a year or two, they had opened up Route 15 by the route 15 that goes around Sparta. Okay. Connects on the other side by Lafayette. And everybody said, "This
is great. Traffic in downtown Sparta now is is terrific." That lasted maybe two years. Okay. Because funny thing that happened was uh traffic wanting to go up to the Vernon ski area. The Playboy Club opened up in the 70s. I'm talking about
the 1970s now. Um, traffic in downtown Sparta became deadlocked to go to Newton. Whether you're on Sparta Avenue or on Main Street, it was deadlocked. And it took us more than 10 years to get the Route 517 bypass built. When it was,
it was in the original plan. And Dave, you probably remember this. It was in the original plan for Route 15, but to save money, they eliminated it at about a million dollar savings. But then they spent about $12 million to build it in the mid1 1980s. And and again, once they opened that up,
things seemed to help out a lot. You still had some traffic, but nothing like it was before. Come to the the modern day and traffic on Route 15 is a nightmare, okay? Especially in the afternoon. And the exit ramp onto 517 heading northbound
from 15 sometimes backs up as early as 2 o'clock in the afternoon back onto the highway. And that's a long exit ramp. So the traffic there is bad. What you're proposing uh again the whole purpose in building these highways was to eliminate
the transient traffic from the local traffic. Okay. People going out to Pennsylvania going north and west. What you're proposing is a truck operation that is a transient business. The sole purpose of it is to transfer a transfer
station to get materials and to bring a truck through the middle of Sparta through Woodport through uh Sparta Avenue and back on to 15. And my concern is that with the traffic going off of 15
now to 517 both northbound then southbound going to Newton or going up to Ogdensburg, people are cutting using Woodport Road now and either going through town to cut off of that because of that backup on Route 15 or even going down East Mountain Road and then down Glenn Road going that going that way
around to get around the traffic uh to bring in truck a business that's sole purpose is transient movement, not for Sparta businesses. Okay. Um you you mentioned the trucks that come in for
CBS and the trucks that come in for Ocean State. Well, they're for they're to service the businesses in Sparta. Okay. And my my two concerns. The first one is if this is approved, if I were to say yes, this is this is granted. Uh I'm
approving something that's just going to have trucks moving through town. And you're saying not many trucks now and hopefully his business improves. Hopefully it gets better and they have u more control of it. I I I worry about granting variances with a lot of conditions on them because then it becomes an enforcement issue and you're
trying to enforce something behind an 8ft fence and if his business does expand, he's going to have more trucks coming through town. The question is, does this provide a benefit to the township? And I look at him, I'm saying, well, what is the
benefit to the township? It's not a business in the township. It's a business through the township. Is it providing employment for the township? No, it's not employment for the township. It's just there. Okay. Is it providing benefit to the businesses in the township, either the the the food
service businesses or some of the other businesses? I don't see that as a benefit to the township. So, at this moment, I really don't see the benefit to it. And again, where you say state and county roads off with truck traffic. Yes, they are. But the whole purpose in building the the big highway networks
was to bypass the local towns and to get all the transient traffic away from the towns. And what you're proposing now is transient traffic through town even though it's one truck plus the smaller trucks uh during the week. The township
recent or probably two years ago approved an apartment complex behind the Burger King on Sparta Avenue that's going to add traffic right there at that point on Sparta Avenue where these trucks are going to be going. There's also a school bus stop that's across the street from that that's going to be in the middle of the day. That was a big
contest issue as to whether that should be approved, but it's going to add traffic. I have a lot of problem with traffic counts over the last few years because of the whole CO thing. We don't know where traffic is. Traffic now, no matter where you drive, is is is very congested. And I believe traffic in Sparta is just going to get more
congested as we move forward. And my concern is our responsibility is to look from a master plan standpoint, look at the long term. Are we creating the potential for more traffic in town and transient traffic, which is not the
purpose of building the highways around the the the downtown area. The other part of it is once we approve this as a transfer station, it could be a transfer station for anybody. As long as they meet conditions, as long as they meet conditions, you can even have something
like a garbage transfer station there with a larger building. And that can happen. That is possible because D can come in and say, "Yeah, we need to have more garbage transfer station." It's just like 20 years ago or 30 years ago when the state came in and said, "Every county has to have its own incinerator."
Okay, that could be out of that comes completely out of the township's control, but as long as it's a permitted use now to have a transfer station there, they can comply with certain conditions. So, I'm wrestling with these things from a from a a local perspective and from a master plan perspective as to
why it should be approved. What What is the benefit to the township? >> If I may, sir. Yeah. And I I remember Route 80 because I grew up in Paripony. Father, >> microphone, >> microphone, Mr. Sconelet, please. My father took me to go see Route 80B and Belt down there 46 and Porivity. But let
me address a couple things first about this the garbage and the transfer station. Conditions can be added to say for tires only. That's acceptable to us. So it doesn't become a permitted use. I have to disagree with you, sir. It doesn't become a permitted use. That's
not our law. You can impose conditions and say just for this use, just for this entire operation only, and if somebody tries to change it, the zoning officer is not going to allow that. Not going to give them a CO. They'd have to be in front of the board. So, I do not uh
think that that's the accurate statement of the law that if we say tires only, that means tires only. It's not going to be garbage. Let me uh suggest what we put in the record for servicing local businesses. And that's exhibit A3. All
of these local businesses have to have their tires picked up. >> The list you gave us is three pages long and it's 90% in Newton. >> Okay. That's for Newton. That's not for Sparta. I'm saying what is the benefit to Sparta? There are two or three
locations for Sparta. And as far as the the issue of another type of operation, okay, if the town permits it as a transfer station, and lawyers are very good at this, we may disapprove it, but if the the BPU approves it or D approves
it, it could be approved as long as they meet the conditions of the higher agency. So if if once we once once we crack the door open, this is what I'm wrestling with. Once we crack the door open, we can't shut it again. >> You're not approving a transfer station.
That's not it's the proving trans this thing is is a transfer to trans >> you're approving the internal movement just like we described it. That's why I wanted to come back tires moving from an and and the your you have the best council in the state for boards. We just
heard that your council can draft something and I submit that protects you because we have an important use that serves Sparta businesses and other businesses and sir recycling is important for everybody. It's not we we
can't just like cell phone service. We can't say well the signal stops at the town line. >> I don't I don't disagree with recycling is important. I would disagree that the recycling is important, but I disagree with the transient traffic through the downtown area. >> I appreciate the traffic
>> was on the other side of route route 15 interchange where you got on and off of 15 without coming into the downtown. That may be a different issue, but this one where you're forcing us to have truck traffic for a transient operation right through the middle of the township, I have a problem with >> we appreciate I'm trying to address as
best I can, but some Sparta residents do go to Newton if the price is right. We do >> for the tires. So, we don't know where people are going. So, I would submit, you know, there's a there's a sale on Goodyear radials. They go over there and what do they do? They leave their tires
there. So, somebody has to pick those up. Somebody's going to have to and we think what is the benefit? What our courts say is if the site is particularly suitable, you've heard this. That's the benefit. The site is suitable. So, we have a location that's
already disturbed. No new disturb. A site that we can sort of clean up a little bit and make better. A site that could have maybe not a 100,000 square foot warehouse, but a site that could be used more intensely. And we have a very
very low generator. I I I have to disagree with you. We're saying, you know, I appreciate it. >> Okay, Mr. That's taken. Those are my concerns. We appreciate it, Rich, for that. Uh, >> next, Marissa.
Michael Leandi. >> Hey guys. Um, so back on June 11th, there was there was some discussion around and I don't recall the genesis of it, so forgive me on that, but there was some uh some discussion around uh what was or was not an NGD NJ approval
uh required for this type of facility for for a transfer station or this type of use at this address? Um, have we found any more uh clarity on on that? Whether or not the user needs some sort
of approval from D or an address does or how that works or if it's even required. >> Yeah, we don't think one is needed. We we looked into that. This is not the recycling plant. Lakewood P the recycling plant where
they chop up the tires and turn it into stuff for playgrounds. that hasn't approved. But this uh uh transferring of the tires in a in a parking lot, uh we don't believe it needs a permit. Of course, the municipal land use law says if we need that D
permit, it doesn't make a difference what this board does. So, if it turns out we were wrong and after some more research by your zoning folks, we need one, we got to go get it. But we don't think we need one for this operation. >> Okay. Um
and and do we have a position on that? Put you guys on the spot. >> Well, do you guys have anything from D saying that it's not needed? >> The ne you know the negative. Um we will we would endeavor to try to produce that
to con to confirm that. you know, I I'll agree to it if that's your concern to try to get something from the D that says we do not need a permit. You know, a letter of no interest perhaps sometimes. So, we would
we would uh we're going to agree to the condition because we really truly want to address the board's concerns and and and find a way that we can give the community comfort given the low degree of traffic here. Low degree of traffic
here. This is not going to cause uh sir I have to disagree. The evidence is so clear. One truck every other day on the big trucks and the other trucks are three small trucks. And there's Eric testified there's 250 trucks a day based
upon the precoid study. That's the undisputed evidence in this record is 250 trucks precoid a day and we're adding two three trucks. Mr. Solen, let's stick with Mr. Leandi's points, not I appreciate that.
>> Mr. Lar Roof's comments and concerns. Okay. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate that. >> Try to put a condition on that and and try to have that produced. >> Yeah, we we we will we'll we'll we'll have to get something uh that's >> they get it.
Really quick, please. >> Richard Roarbecker. >> Um I do have a concern and a question about the the Mr. Kesler has stated that
the truck any trucks the tractor trailers would be going on state highways. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. Um these >> andor county roads
>> that's fine. Understood. Um these roadways that uh you have shown a traffic pattern on um they're also used
by the residents of the town and surrounding communities, the county to transit through the township.
>> Correct. That's the purpose of county and state roads is to carry a variety of traffic including large vehicles. And it's my understanding based upon
the exhibit 1A and your testimony that the trucks can only make a right turn. >> Correct. >> They cannot go left because
of the median. >> Correct. It's not very big, but it's enough to warrant only a left turn. >> Right turn. >> That is correct. Okay. Um,
that whole scenario bothers me of we can only make a right turn and we have to go down through 181. make a go through the jug handle and all
this other nonsense and make a right turn onto county the county road and then make a right turn onto the four-lane highway to go south or go
slightly further and make a left turn to go north on Route 15. >> Correct. um the intersection where they have to go and make the right turn onto the
uh county road. I I'm not certain whether it continues the state highway at that point. Well, 18 181 Sparta Avenue continues as a state
highway all the way until it reconnects with Route 15 right by the railroad tracks. Okay, >> that is a state highway from the railroad tracks at the north end of Sparta or the northern part of Sparta
all the way down past this site all the way down until you get to um >> some place >> to Jefferson by Lake Forest. >> Yes. >> And and then it gets back on to >> Route 15. >> It gets on to Route 15. >> Okay. Um,
there's nothing to prohibit or exclude large trucks from using that extension down to Route 15 instead of making a right turn.
>> You mean in by the ocean say Jabla? >> Yes, that is correct. >> Correct. if but they would only do that if they're going north and and their tractor trailers both the Lakewood facility the recycling facility
they go to and the Fleetwood Pennsylvania facility they go to there's no reason for them to go north on Route 15. >> Okay. All right. >> So, >> um thank you for that. Just needed that piece of clarification. Um,
but I still have issues about the tra the fact that these are highly traveled roads and there's a large amount of traffic on these roads
that is single occupant vehicles and p passenger vehicles for >> and And I did indicate that there are and that's why we looked at what the traffic count data was. There are trucks
that use that roadway today. >> Yeah. >> Some may be doing that, >> right? May some may be making local deliveries. I mean the Shell station, the um what Chima Farms are getting gas
deliveries in tractor trailers. Um and most likely they're getting off at Blue Heron and coming down Woodport Road. There are other vehicles that um are traveling further through. I mean, for the most part, if you're traveling to
Lafayette or to the shop right up on at North Village, you're not ever going to get off of Route 15 unless there's a problem on Route 15. Um, but there are deliveries made to
Sparta businesses and other businesses. Um, the new 7-Eleven is going to be getting tractor trailer deliveries. They're going to get off at Blue Haron. So um this is you know and that's why I made the point
of the frequency of truck traffic from this is negligible when you look at the traffic that exists the truck traffic that exists on this roadway today. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Just our our necessary service. I think
I think everybody agrees. >> I'm not arguing that. >> No, I appreciate that. But what we're saying is >> my concern was the truck traffic. >> We we appreciate that if we all agree that it's a necessary service. We're talking about one truck every other day.
So as a percentage, so that's what we're, you know, that's our proof that we're putting before you that this is going to be such >> understand that. Thank you very much, sir. >> I appreciate it. >> Okay, Richard. Uh >> I think I'm done at this at this time. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Marissa. Jennifer Paha. >> Um, yeah, I have a couple of observations. Um, >> a little bit closer to the microphone, Jennifer, please, so we could record. >> So, I I would be more comfortable if we understood the relationship with the DP
because on that piece of property, you've got two branches of a category one stream there. By no fault of the owners there. I mean, by today's standards, you wouldn't be able to build anything there. There's a 300 foot setback for category 1 streams. So, it's
already counter to what the policies are for category one stream. Um, so that so that feeds into this in the sense that, you know, now you're having these tires
there too, but um, as you've explained, it's a clean operation. And I understand I understand what you're saying. Um the other the other, you know, clarification that I have is I just, you know, I just want to have it concise and on record. So um
when we count traffic and we're talking about 250 trucks a day, that is the number there. We don't count it as up and back as one, right? It's each way. >> Correct. It's 250 trucks total in both
directions. both the 9,200 total vehicles are in both directions, both north and south, >> and and whether or not, but I just, you know, I like to get the numbers clear. So, if you've got two 18-wheelers and they go every other day, so let's say
three times a week, right? So, that's that's 12 passes, right? per week >> except for the fact that we're looking at one point on the roadway and that where
the DOT took the count was I forget the exact location. It was north of this site, >> but when the tractor trailer leaves, they're going to go north >> because they're going through town. You actually get you actually that's to your advantage. But when they come back, when they return, I shouldn't say when they
come, when they return to the site, >> they will get off at the Blue Heron interchange and they will come off of Woodport Road at this point. They will never pass a point on Woodport Road twice to make the trip. >> Yeah.
>> Just to put it into context of how you take a traffic, >> but I I get what you're saying. And when they're getting off and they're coming back to come to this place, they're going to have to go to Blue Heron to the end and try to make a Uturn >> at that spot. >> No, you come north on Route 15. Okay.
>> You take the loop ramp over by Latty, Clark, and Ryan. >> There's there's no U-turn. It's just a loop. >> And then on number six here, it says the maximum number of box trucks loaded on the premises at any one time will be four. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, is there a spare? because we
keep talking about three trucks a day. >> They use three trucks today. We talked about one, they may if a truck breaks down, they're going to have to bring a truck from another location and until they get that truck fixed or if their business grows, they, you know, we've
designed a site to accommodate four trucks. And just just and I'm just, you know, this is this is might be a little nitpicky, but I just want to get the numbers clear because if we're looking at this from a purist perspective, we're talking about having four box trucks potentially. That's what it has here in the in the things. And >> that is correct.
>> And we have and we have them three trips a day, right? Isn't that what we talked about? Each truck goes out in the morning >> and comes back, >> makes its rounds to whichever stores are in the, you know, in this area >> and then they come back and they take
the trucks off the the trucks, they take the tires off that truck and put them in the tractor trailer. >> Yeah. I mean, I guess my point is when I just did it that they would do it three times a day, I came up with 24 a day, which is more like 10%, but it sounds
like we're still lower. Okay. Five trucks are once. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, it's three out in the morning and those three trucks come back at at night. >> And again, because of the >> median down the middle of the road,
>> whether they're coming from Newton um or wherever, they're going to come off this ramp south this the Route 15 southbound ramp, make a right on the Woodport Road, and make a right in. If they went down to Jefferson to the tire places down
there, they would they would come in on Woodport Road through Blue Heron. >> Got it. Okay. Thank you. And um that's it for me. I don't have any more questions. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We're uh we'd like to address we can agree to a condition that
>> Rich easy. We got other board members that are waiting have a chance. >> Michael Steyberg. >> Yeah. I have a a number of questions. I appreciate the robust discussion that we've had so far on the traffic uh across the board. I definitely think there's a couple things that we still
need to address on that. Um but I will get to other points here shortly beyond the traffic. So the one piece that stood out to me also is that you that the the tractor trailers are going to leave during off- peak hours, which was quoted as 1:00 p.m. to 3 p.m. around here.
>> Correct. It depends on what your interpretation of off- peak hours actually means because anybody that has anybody like kids in the school district here knows that 1 to three might be fine, but anytime between 2 to 4 is a disaster zone with school buses around here, right? The high school starts
getting out a little after 2. The middle school's out at 2:30. Helen Morgan then moves over to um or Mohawk moves over to Helen Morgan a little after three. Alpine gets out like late three o'clock. two to four is a terrible time with school buses around here. So, if you're
trying to navigate tractor trails around school buses and all the traffic starts, you know, uh that Mr. Laru uh um had mentioned previously on this one, it's not a great time and it's not exactly what I would call as off peak either, especially with the amount of kids that are in transit during that time period,
right? So, if your box trucks aren't back, they haven't loaded things out from, let's call it, noon to 1 and then out of here by 1:00, you're going to hit school traffic. plain and simple that right observation doesn't need feedback necessarily on this one right the bigger
point that I am not clear on at this juncture in the game and we had a very similar discussion last meeting that we had about what is the actual intended use of this facility right I've heard transfer station right transfer center I
then heard that no this isn't a transfer center I've heard recycling center warehouse. Is this a distribution center? What exactly is this facility being used for? >> Like what how would you define this?
Like so when we talk about getting a devariance in perpetuity, what is that intent for your business that we would be approving in perpetuity? Like I need that clarification to understand that a little bit more. Well, at as described, transfer station has sort of a a
connotation of of a garbage transfer station. We are not that. It's the uh transportation of tires from an SU30 into a >> What is that though? That's just that's an action. That's not a thing. >> There there's a there's a something
called footnote 11 of the Medici case. It says there's these sort of new and unique uses. So this is sort of a oneoff type of use. We >> So how do I define something that goes into perpetuity as a new and unique use
in this business without it being effectively defined? >> I think that esteemed council uh can uh describe that and ultimately the board can approve that. If if we can find a way to make the conditions work so that the board could get comfort, I think
there's a way in the resolution to take the transcript and the testimony and define what we have described here. It's not so easy to do. I'm not going to say, you know, this is not a gas station. This is not a a convenience store. This
is not a supermarket. >> Is this Let me let me ask this question. Is this a recycling facility? >> There's no recycling going on. this a transfer station. >> It It is the transfer of tires. >> If it's a transfer of tires, does it make it different than a distribution
center? >> I I wouldn't call We're not distributing anything here. So, I wouldn't call it a distribution center, >> but you're distributing tires to Pennsylvania and to Lakewood. >> That is not occurring on this site. What is occurring on this site, >> but that the the tires are being concentrated in this site and then being
distributed out to the recycling centers? So, does it not make it a dist a distribution center? >> I would call it as a traffic engineer a tire collection facility. They're collecting tires from point A, taking them to point B.
>> But what's the point B call then? It's distribution. >> No, it's not a distribution. They're collecting the tires from various businesses. They are then consolidating those tires. So, if you want to call this tire consolidation, >> consolidation center.
>> So, they're taking the tires from multiple locations and putting them in a tractor trailer to deliver them for recycling, which is a state mandate. >> And I I think what we can say is we can
fairly easily draft a resolution that protects the community. That's what you're concerned about. We get that. No, I'm actually concerned about like what is the intended use of this facility, right? Like I don't think it's defined. I mean, I understand that there are
recycling going on. I understand there's consolidation going on. I understand that there's distribution going on, but I don't know what I am approving from a like a devarian standpoint right now that you guys are asking me to define right now. >> It look it has to occur somewhere. We're
all It has to occur somewhere. But I think Eric's description is is well put. But in pract collection entirely within the trucks, that's the the our goal here is to protect the community. I think it at least I think it should be and not so
much about the the definition so long as the community can be protected by mandating and giving the zoning officer something that is uh identifiable and easily enforcable. No tires outside. We're committing to that and the community can get that easily and that's
so easily >> the burden of proof is on you right now because elite tire and truck may not theoretically be here in 200 years but this Dvariance will right. So if you don't define that for me right now as you're in front of this board it becomes very hard for me to actually understand
what it is I'm voting on. >> Okay. Uh Matt has pointed out what we what Mr. wrote in the application. I hope it's good. Matt, would you let Matt just since he's the sworn witness and since the board members are asking the questions, let's get this on the record because this seems to be a stumbling, I
think. What do you got, Matt? >> What did Mr. Oliver write? >> So, as you said, there is no strict two-word definition because this is such a unique site. So, how do we define it? In the application, Mr. wrote, quote, to permit the use of the property for
parking of motor freight vehicles to be used to transfer tires between smaller box trucks trucks to up to two larger trailers for shipment offsite. End quote. So any >> is it a parking lot?
>> Well, that's I think again we shouldn't really be trying to find some two-word definition. I think that that is the definition. It it's a long definition, but it is a definition. You can see my that I'm skeptical. >> I get it. It's more of a description than a definition. >> Description, right? Like nobody's
telling me what the intended use is. So, I mean, I we'll we'll run in circles, but that that's my question, right? And the burden that I'm trying to understand here. >> We don't go along with the line. Matt, could you give me, if you need a
minute, could you give me a couple of examples of similar businesses that do something akin to this? I'm I'm trying and and as far as I'm
concerned, Lindsay and Dave and anybody else, I'm looking for something they can hear me, but thank you. I'm looking for something that's similar. So, for example, if you had a a dairy farm and the dairy farm has all the cows getting milked and then that's
consolidated into a tank and the tank then ships it off, that's not being touched. That's just being moved so that eventually it goes and becomes the milk that you buy in the supermarket. That just sprung to my mind. But you're traveling around. You're seeing stuff.
What's you got any other examples in the real world that that come and we can give you a break if you want because we can open it up to the public and keep this thing moving. >> I think that's fair. I'll I'll revisit that for sure. Um, but the other thing real quick that I just want to say in in
terms of uh your comments, you know, unfortunately I think it really is an unfortunate situation that this applicant would have to deal with this problem in any board that he goes to because of the uniqueness. So, we have managed to find a property where we
think it really works here based on all of the testimony we've given. Um, so I I do think, you know, there is that element here where this board can kick us down the road, we have to go find another board, we're gonna have the same problem. It doesn't mean that it's a detrimental land use. It just means it's
unique. Uh, >> they they they get that, but if you just just put your thinking cap on and Lindsay, if you come up with something, too, that would be >> All right. Thank you, >> Marissa. Excuse me. Mike, are you finished? >> I'm finished. Thank you, >> Chairman Kis. Larry.
>> Okay. Um, Mr. Keller or Sergeant Richard Smith from the traffic bureau. >> Yes, sir. >> Had mentioned vehicles exiting Route 15 are traveling at 55 miles per hour and a curvature of the roadway combined with obstructions leaves inadequate sight
distance to safely react to tractor trailers entering or exiting the property. In addition, Route 15 south off ramp sits directly before the driveways. larger vehicles exiting Route 15 will further obstruct the sight
distances compounding the safety hazard. And no one does 55 coming off of there because I know you're not from this area, but when they come off, I am from this area. So, you know, >> I know I drive this road every I drive on Route 15 pretty much every day. I live in Andover,
>> but when you come off that bend, if you're not doing 55 or 60, they'll run right over you there because I go there quite often. No one observes the speed limit there at all. And that's what he's mentioning. This 55 mph. >> Well, nobody's driving 55 miles an hour
on Route 15. Otherwise, you're getting run over. But >> come off of there, unfortunately. >> If you come off if you come off at Blue Heron, you're not doing 55 on that ramp. >> Correct. >> You know, it it you're going much slower.
>> No, I haven't seen it that way. A lot of people I talked to, like I say, >> ramp itself. >> On the ramp itself, >> the ramp itself >> on the ramp itself. Right. >> So you're on 15, you get off at Blue Heron, you're not doing 55 on that ramp, >> but they do speed up when they come
around and onto Woodport Road, unfortunately. But th >> this is not an expert opinion, but my experience as from a traffic engineering perspective and somebody who has kind of a lead foot
um you're not doing more than about 40 something miles an hour coming over Wood over the bridge and coming up Woodport Road. And I have a a fairly I don't have a sports car. I don't have a Corvette or anything, but I
have a car that handles pretty well and I'm not going to do it. It's not, you know, a safe maneuver. Putting that aside there, you know, um
there is adequate sight distance for both parties, both the person leaving this site and the vehicle approaching to make a a decision as to whether they're going to pull out or not. Um,
and that as an engineer is what I base my opinion on is the facts of what the stopping site distance is, what the sight lines are. No, I'm not, you know,
I read the the the sergeant's report. So, um, >> thank you. I understand all that. And he just concludes, I guess, as you read the report that the site proposed use of this property at that site
proposes a significant traffic safety hazard without substantial improvements to site lines, roadway design, long-term management of the vegetation, >> and the vegetation is at a high risk of collisions involving tractor trailers
and regular traffics on that site on route 181. I just wanted to read it into the record. I know you saw it. >> Was the sergeant? No. No. >> That makes it quite difficult for us. >> Then did you did you see the
environmental commission report from our environmental commission in town? >> I think the testimony is clear. We're we're not creating any environmental issues. We're actually reducing in purview, not going into the C1 waterways.
They had some concerns with that. >> Would you do you have the report with you or not? >> I do have all the reports, but I think we >> on June 9th, I think it is. >> I have uh Yeah, there's two reports dated June 9th. Mr. Aller delivered, you know, volume two, same date is I'm not
sure which one is which, but uh we certainly have to get any >> approvals from the D, but we don't think we need any and I think your expert confirmed that. I I don't think there's a D issue here. We're not we're not impacting wetlands.
We're we're only on previously disturbed uh property and we're actually uh committed to reducing impervious. >> Okay. Then I know the fire department said they had no issues. Correct. >> That is correct. We have a me we have a me hired an expert went out there met
with the fire department talked about the various regulations. I bring it up. Uh, our fire department marshall on August 1st had issue a memo. Did you ever see that one? >> August 1st. >> August 1st. >> We have we have a memo dated September 29th.
>> Could I just show you this memo and then you could potentially respond to it? I have it here. Mr. Schlick, >> it was >> You probably don't have it. Just take a few minute or two. It's not long. It's just a few memos here.
So >> you you go back to the microphone, please. >> Great. The uh >> this we did have uh the security gate we responded to that by increasing the width. Um
security gates shall be maintained as operational. We of course agree to that. the uh we added the ballards for the gas meter. And then uh in terms of bullet point one about the water supply, the September 29
memo was issued at our request to confirm that we're okay. It's not >> I just wanted it all on the record again. >> No, I appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate that. Can I give you this back? >> Thank you. >> Quick question on the security gate. Uh
when a truck pulls up after returning from his trip, the the tractor trailer pulls up. How does he open the security gate? >> Do we do we have a proposal on that that you're aware of, Eric? >> I'm not sure if it'll be mechanized or if it'll just he will pull into the
site. The gate is far enough back that the truck can pull off of the highway off of Woodport Road if if it's manual and he has to >> But he can pull off he could automatically pull off of Woodport Road before he gets to the gate. >> Oh yeah. There's plenty of room between
Woodport Road and where the gate is that he's off the roadway. So if the gate gates closed, if nobody, you know, is still there when he returns from the trip to Lakewood or Pennsylvania, he can pull off, park, get out, and open it. If
it's mechanized, they in the in the uh in the trucks, they will have, you know, whatever fob or push button that will open up the gate. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Okay. I'll now open the hearing to the
public. And if you're so kind, try to keep your questions and comments to five minutes or less. And please state your name and address. >> Thank you for hearing me this time. Uh my name is Gail Burn. I live uh Orchard
Terrace, 8 Orchard Terrace, and that's Lake Sagenol, which we actually it's almost like an umbilical cord. your your streams, feet burn, you're here to address the board, but let me swear you in first. Raise your right hand, please. >> Yes. >> Do you swear to tell the whole truth and
nothing but the truth? We're seeing before the board tonight. So, be God. >> Yes. >> And Gail, it's G A I L. >> Yes. >> And your last name is B U R N. >> B Y R N E. >> Close, but no cigar. >> Um, I have a question as far as with
their trucks. What type of hazmat signs do they are required on their trucks? because that'll give us feedback as far as what type of hazardous materials are there. Um, Mr. Stop. That's a good question. See if they can answer it one
question at a time. Okay. >> Stand up. >> We are required. So, >> really? Okay. Um, >> come up here.
Anyway, as far as um you know, the the concerns we have is that the streams that feed into Lake Sageno um the dust from the tires
um are hazardous material. uh con uh and they can contaminate groundwater harming aqua aquatic systems. This is from the D website. Um
so it's not just that the the trucks are together that dust is going to come out from there and and possibly into the streams that feed into Lake Sagenol which then feeds into Lake Mohawk. Um, as far as
traffic, you were talking about, you know, going all the way up. That's like four miles going from there to go all the way up and then come four miles back down. They're not going to do it. Lake Sageno has a big wide opening
there, and that's where the bus stop is, and I've seen it. They're going to come right in there, big wide opening, do a U-turn, and go back to Route 15. That's a half a mile from their property, and that's where the school bus stop is.
I've seen oil trucks come through there, the wrong way, down the one way, at like 30 miles an hour, and the kids are there waiting for the bus, and it's a matter of he said, she said, who's going to enforce it? Um, that's a big concern for
me. Um the study that was done by uh was it chief? No, Sergeant Sergeant Richard Smith. Um he says here that there's no threat to the public health, safety, and welfare. Well,
>> oh that's uh that's outdated, Gale. That's the wrong one. >> June 9th. >> No, there was >> Oh, okay. Um, what I would like to mention also is that the Sparta Township, the crash
study through the township, Woodport Road is only second to Route 15 in accidents. And right in front of that property, there was a fatality. So, I mean,
I appreciate that they're providing a business. They're they're providing for their family. But this is our home and I'm just concerned that it'll affect and there's there's no I don't see the benefits.
Um I apologize I don't have the information of where I obtained this but at the last meeting I found where any changes to the property need to go through the DP. Um I will try and find
where I found that but Lindsay, could you respond to that? Miguel, >> um I'm I'm not sure where that's from or >> me either, and I know I had it >> relative to
um Okay. Now, at the last meeting, they said two tractor trailers on the property, five days a week, which would be 10 times a week coming and going from the property. Ma'am, just to give you some additional time so you're not wasting it. They revised that testimony.
So what they said the last time tonight's what counts. >> So the last time is not part of the record. >> That's what I was about to say. Um as far as what's keep offered more business, what's stopping them? Who's going to enforce this? I I I don't see
anybody enforcing this. >> Okay. >> At least I should say I don't have the confidence in that. >> We understand. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um, I know there's more, but I'll stop there and let other people speak. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Gail.
>> Good evening, Jenny. For the record, Jenny Derek, stop tap in the slaughter. >> Thank you, Ken. >> Um, just a couple of quick things. >> Are you going to ask questions or testify? >> Um, press usually. >> You might as well just do this just in case. >> Are you testifying as a press or individual or what?
>> I'm the press, so I don't need to. I just have a couple of points to make. I'm not going to ask questions. Whatever you want me to do, I'll swear in. You want me to swear? >> I'll swear you in, I guess. >> Swear in. >> You swear to tell the whole truth and nothing get the truth and proceedings before the board tonight. So, hope you got >> I do. >> Okay. And you're Jenny Derek.
>> Jenny Derek's tap into Sparta. >> And Jenny, five minutes or less if you're so kind. >> It should be less than that. Um, the economic development district ordinance purpose statement includes a statement that the uses are to be in a campus-like
setting. an eight-foot fence with a 20 foot opening, unless you're in a prison, doesn't appear to be a campus-like setting, and other applications have had to go through that standard. Um to add
to what the previous speaker said, um according to the crash data analysis done by the chief spanning 2021 through the mid 2024, four of the roads that are listed in
their circular um traffic pattern are in the top 10 for crashes in that time period. That's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jenny. Good evening, Beth. If you could give your name and address to the secretary.
>> Beth Project, Northshore Trail, Sparta. Beth, >> how do you spell your last name? >> BR O D E R I C K. >> And Beth, if you're so kind, too. Five minutes or less. >> Oh, no problem. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> a little bit louder to the microphone. >> Are you going to testify or you just ask
questions? Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth of proceedings before the board tonight? So, hope you got >> Yes. Go ahead. And I kind of want to expand on what Gail and Jenny said because um I have the numbers. From January 1st of 21 to June 15th of 2024
on Woodport Road, which is 181, there were 132 accidents. Sparta Junction, which is 517, was 63. Sparta Avenue, which is 517 at one point, was 118. Sparta Avenue, which is also 181, was
53. Route 15 from the Jefferson line up to Sparta was 218. And then if you expand it because Newton and Andover were mentioned, if you look at Newton, Sparta Avenue, which is 616, I believe
it goes from quick check out, there were 68, including a a fatality where or three fatalities where a driver was distracted, went across the yellow line and killed three people, and then he died. So, I just want to point that out.
Um, I drive home on 181 because 517, which is the bypass, backs up. Now, I live on Northshore. I don't know if you're familiar with Lake Mohawk or not, but Northshore is between Reverend Brown and the intersection of the new 7-Eleven
and Sparta Pharmacy. I cannot get out of my road from 7:30 in the morning until about 8:39 because there's also Kitty Academy. So, I get rush hour traffic. I get school buses. I get all the soccer
moms. You can't get out of Southshore. So, everybody goes on to Northshore. We can't get out. Then when you do the reverse and you're going from Reverend Brown, Pope John, Alpine, Kitty Academy, and you're heading up to Route 15. Plus, you get
the commuter traffic. You cannot go from the Catholic Academy of of Sussex County. Is that what they're calling it now? Whatever the school's there in the church, you can't go from there past Route 15 on the 517 bypass. Okay. Okay.
And then if you're coming from the other direction, you have the high school. And I I can pull up the West Mountain um accidents at 517. You have the middle, you have the two schools out there. Okay. That does not include Mohawk Avenue or Helen Morgan because they're a
little bit outside the periphery. The question that I have is if you are if you guys are coming from Newton and Andover, you guys mentioned, I believe, going out 517 onto Route 15 to come south to go to Blue Heron and make the right turn in. Why are you are you committing to saying
100% we're not going through Sparta on 517 Newton Sparta or the SP Sparta Avenue or any of that because like Mr. Steinberg said it's a hot freaking mess. You can't get through there. You're asking for trouble. We have the numbers. I can forward the
report. You can over whatever. >> Excuse me if you could respond Mr. Keller. Yeah. >> One thing the single unit trucks a go out by 7 o'clock in the morning. And if they're going to Newton, they're going to go up on Sparta Avenue, make the left
on to we'll continue out 517 where comes Newton Sparta Road at the Quick Check. They're already on those roads. They're already servicing those customers out there from where, you know, they're not doing it from this site because they don't they can't
operate here, but they're already servicing the Shell station, the performance tires up on in Hampton on 206. They're already there, but they're out there early and they're driving around. the the main difference as far as this
operation, one is that they're a lot closer to where they're starting and getting on those roads sooner. Um, we're talking about the tractor trailers where they take the tires after they pick them up at the various shops and put them in the tractor trailer, then they leave.
That's the one difference. But they're already servicing all the the >> Okay, but >> users that are on that list and traveling those roads. I agree that they're not coming busy. >> Okay, hang on. They're not coming from a
very dangerous intersection where you have people whipping around because I do this and a couple of times a week coming off 15 going Route 15 speeds of it's technically 55, but nobody does 55 on that road. Coming off the first going the first exit, going around coming
through. You have people trying to make a left turn to go towards Tomahawk Lake. Okay, they're inching out into a road where it goes from two lanes down to one right in that general area right by the parking lot. >> Narrows from two lanes to one >> closer to
past this site. >> You also have because I did this today on my way here. You have people coming off of Route 15, 15 north to make a left turn into the area where towards Tomahawk Lake. You have people at a stop sign trying to get across there. >> Excuse me, Beth. >> Here's my concern. Okay. try to finish
up other people's and we're getting a little late. >> Um, but my thing is you are now coming and going from a bad intersection >> and you're saying, "Okay, they're already and it's not just the tractor trailers. It's the box trucks as well." We had to put a 410 way restriction on on Northshore Trail because the box
trucks were cutting through at 6:30 in the morning. I I'm not going to say it was you guys, whoever. But my concern again is you have on the span from the new 7-Eleven by the United Methodist Church down to the jug handle. You've got ball fields. You've got an apartment
building that may or may not be going in. You've got dairy like at Sparta. You've got a lot of activity there with the documented accidents. You've got documented accidents on Sparta Avenue and Newton Sparta Sparta. You've got everything there. How are you guys going to mitigate that when we have documented
issues and dramatic volume? You guys mentioned precoid numbers. These are 2021 to 2024. These are after CO and it's only going to get worse. >> Okay. Thank you, Beth. Just a quick response, Mr. Keller, then if any. >> Thank you, Beth. >> Of all the uses that could be using this
property, this is about as low intensity as you possibly could get. >> All right. Thank you. man, could I address that? >> No, >> no, let let the public have some uh public >> Ken Ken, just one second. I think we have two other applicants sitting
behind. >> Can we make the announcements? >> I think we ought to do something so these poor people aren't waiting. Certainly the for the last one, Mr. Chairman. >> Uh, just a moment. Uh, what's your name? >> Joanne Skelly. >> Just a moment, Joanne. So the
applications uh 7-25 Woodport LLC and also application 10-25 Ella Property Partnerships. We will not be getting to hearing your applications tonight. >> Okay. And >> so what about the next dates and the carry for forward?
>> November 12th. >> November. Um, is there any meeting we could have be >> Why don't we do something the uh in October the uh second uh the fourth Wednesday of the month if the applicants can attend then for these applications >> you're looking at you're looking at the
22nd of October which >> October correct >> we have anything for that? >> No, just for November. >> Now the applicant attorneys are here too if those dates are fine for both applications. Wait, can you come forward to the
microphone? So Joanne, if you can step aside a moment a line, I think Linda Hurley, I'm here on behalf of the uh Heler Property Partners application. Um October 22nd would works works for us, right? >> Yes. >> Yes. Matt Matt's Matt's always here, I
think. So yeah, that works. All right. And Linda, just check uh that day and find out or just check and see what the agenda is because uh Todd has an application that he's probably somewhat done with, but he's ahead of you anyway. >> He's ahead of me. Okay. >> Thank you.
>> We'll do. Thank you very much. >> All right. So, for the record, your application, which is the Heler application, is going to be carried October 22nd. No further public notice being required. >> Thank you for being patient for the delay, unfortunately. I understood. Thank you, >> sir.
We're halfway. >> Mr. Hooker, what do you got? >> Um, uh, we're available on the 22nd. It sounds like Matt's going to be here anyway. He just said he was thinks he's available. He's our our planner as well. Is he the other one? Yeah, yours, too. Okay. So, good. Yeah, it'll be uh easy to do.
>> All right. >> Any no further notice? >> No further notice. I I don't think we need an extension, but if we do, you'll give us one, Todd? >> Yes. >> I think it's within 120 days. >> Um, I think so. Yeah. If not, if not, you'll give us a letter. Don't worry about it. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Todd. >> For the public, those applications are not going to be heard tonight. They will be heard on October 22nd. Okay. >> Hey, Joanne. An address, please. >> U Senica Lake Road, Sparta, New Jersey.
>> And your last name? >> Her name? >> Your last name? >> Gi as in Sam. C is in cat. A l y. >> When you want to swear her? >> Yeah. Joanne, do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth the proceedings before the board tonight? >> Yes, I do. >> Go ahead. >> Um,
>> five minutes or less, Joanne, if you're so kind. >> Pardon me. >> Five minutes or less if you're so. >> Um, I've been a resident for close to 35 years. I raised my kids here. Um, my kids are two boys are still living here um with um three grandchildren. Well, four really. He's off and on in the
Navy. Um, and I go on that road daily, multiple times over these 35 years. And that is a bad bad area. And I see no no benefit to um the town of Sparta for this to be there. An 8-foot corrugated
metal fence is terrible. It doesn't belong anywhere in Sparta, not even in industrial area. If you go down Aaron Way, the buildings are beautiful. Wilson Drive buildings are beautiful. 8 foot. Welcome to Sparta. That's the main entrance into Sparta. It is not remote
area like the planner says. Um the land across the street is for sale and it backs up to residential and I'm assuming if they do sell it's going to be residential. Who wants to stare at a 8-foot fence? And if you go back to 2018
2019 um there was a trucking company um Sinai Trucking um they had illegal dumping non-permissible use but they still did it and it was they sold the soil to unsuspecting customers in Sparta. It was
terrible. It was unpermitted use but they still did it. Now we have an 8 foot bench you can't even see through. What goes on behind closed doors? Who knows? Anything can go on. there's sensitive properties back there and you can say you're not going to do it. I trust no
one. Um I learned with Sinai they kept going on and on and on. Um and it was so hard to stop it. Even with the D involved and they got over a $500,000 fine. Who's to stop them? And then you said they're not going to be sitting outside. You could have water in there.
They're sitting outside at the gas stations. Um and all you need is a little bit of water for tons of mosquitoes. And like I said, I travel that all the time. It is so dangerous in my car and I do not see tractor trailers. Then when you're coming down
that curvy road, um coming down Glenn Road, how many accidents where the truck lost their brakes? Are we going to have that? There's buses stopping, kids crossing all along Woodport Road going up Spart Avenue. Kids crossing, kids crossing along the Dairy Queen, running
across um and box trucks. This is not like a small 14oot box truck. You said it's a MU30. That's a Pepsi truck. That's a big truck. So, it's not a small little box truck that people are thinking in their heads. There's a big giant Pepsi truck. >> It does not belong there. It does not
belong anywhere in Sparta with the 8-oot fence. >> Um, so that's my thing. It's just a dangerous location. And another thing with um Sergeant Smith, >> I know they do traffic studies. He didn't just pull 55 miles an hour out of the air. He did a traffic study and it
came up with that. They did traffic studies on my street um because people complained about the speed and I know people come fast because you got to be really careful to get out of there. So I just beg you beg you please don't bring this to Florida. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else?
>> Um with the tractor trailers, let's say they get fire in there. What happens with a trailer load of truck tires? I was looking that up. You can't do anything but pile dirt on it. They're almost and by then the air is all polluted. So again, please vote.
>> Okay, Joanne. Thank you. >> Please give your name and address to the secretary. >> My name is Patty Paresi. P A R I S E. I live at 6 South Orchard Terrace in Lake Sagenov. I'm Gail's neighbor. And I
won't take up much of your time except >> yet. What? >> You swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth proceedings before the board tonight. So you got >> I do. Go ahead, Pen. >> Um, so I just >> Five minutes or less, if you're so kind, like you said, >> I'll just be two minutes. I just wanted to kind of pile on my concerns with Gail
and Joanne about the traffic, um, about the U-turn, about the trucks illegally turning around there. It is a big wide space at the end of Sagen uh, Sagena Drive. So, I'm concerned about that. I'm concerned about the school buses because they do pull in there and then pull out.
Um, and also I'm concerned about um the expansion of the business. If the business is successful and they take on more tires and they want a bigger building, um they want more trucks, um there's more activity, um more
employees. Does that have to be approved? I know I heard that the building must be approved, but if they have more trucks in there, who's going to be monitoring that? So, um, if you vote yes, it seems like it's going to be, you know,
nobody's going to be monitoring and, um, just don't want all the traffic going through there, going through town. And that's it. Thank you for hearing. >> All right. Thank you so much. Anyone else in the public? >> Yeah. Mike Divine, old parkways, Florida. You >> want to square me because I'm not sure
what the nature of my comments will be. questions or >> Mike, do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Mike, I'm not done yet. Put your hand back up, please. I'm serious about this. This is a note. >> Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth before the >> before the board tonight?
>> Yes. >> And my >> How do you spell your last name, Michael? >> D V I N E. >> Thank you, >> Mike. If you're so kind, as you know the drill, five minutes or less. Thank you so much. >> I'll do my best. Some of this might be slightly redundant, but I think it might be worthwhile for some emphasis. I took
notes during the the dialogue. I share the concern about and I'm not an expert on zoning or or devarianes, but if we approve a category of devariance and that's continues odd infinitum, I don't want to see us get involved in a battle as to what else that could be
introduced. I've heard the last time or this time the use I think you've used the word transfer site numerous times. It seems now that maybe we're not clear exactly what this is. I got a question from somebody who I think is watching on the TV or whatever
it is. Why is this not a trucking terminal or cross stocking which is defined and prohibited by ordinance? Do we agree? Do we agree that it is not those things? I I think that clearly this is this isn't a transfer operation. I don't know what else you would call
it. And this is a I think we talked a little bit about this. The tires that are being collected, how are they being collected now? Is this business already operating and picking up tires in Sparta? Why do they need to relocate to this location?
What percent of the tires that you pick up come actually from Sparta? We've talked about what's the benefit to the town of Sparta. I see virtually none. I see all kinds of ambiguity and potential serious problems. Safety. I also view this as the gateway to our
town. one of the gateways coming off the 15. First thing I see is an 8-oot fence. That that doesn't that doesn't sound very appealing to me. I'm not sure if there are intangible aspects to considering a devariance, but I think there are many intangible aspects to
this that would rule against granting the variance. Another thing is why, and this may not be proper for the board to consider, but why why would you have to pick this location? Obviously, you want to ask ask
to 15, but these the single unit trucks or whatever you call them, if they're just going to be going through town to pick up the tires, take them somewhere else outside of town so you don't have the tractor trailers go through town. I don't understand why this site has to be picked. I really feel like we're
shoehorning this use into a place where it's inappropriate for a number of reasons, maybe largely safety and aesthetics. And to say that they're state roads, I guess strictly speaking, they're state highways and presumably are designed to accommodate this kind of traffic. To say
Woodport Road and these other roads are not local roads, I think is specious at best. They're clearly heavily used by the local people for local purposes. to combine this kind of traffic with those local roads even if it's strictly allowed by the state
regulations I think is taking in the wrong direction the things Mr. Laru has said I I couldn't agree more with the kind of things you said the whole intent of 15 etc to take things away from this the local roads we're going the opposite
direction and it was set a precedent that I would be very concerned about thank you >> thank you Mike I think there was one more two individuals there again keep I'd like to get everyone in here tonight so keep your comments to
please keep your comments to five minutes or less and try not to be so redundant because again we're looking at the clock here. We don't have much time left and we would like to get to vote on this application tonight. Your name please. >> Kathy Evan Cowen. >> Your address to the secretary please.
Kathy >> I didn't get your last name. I'm sorry. >> Evan Cowzen. Ebb I N K Hu Y Sen. Kathy, you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth of proceedings before the board tonight's help. You got it. >> I do. >> Okay. Go ahead, Kathy.
>> First question. Um, I'm not sure if it was addressed, but why was Mr. Ol replaced for this application? >> Can you speak a little bit closer to the microphone, please? Kathy, >> not really, >> but I can try. Take that. You can take that off. Make the mic a little shorter. Thank
you. Um, why was Mr. Oler replaced for this application? He declined to continue because he felt he may have conflict. It wasn't clear. >> Can you speak into the microphone, please? >> As he related it to me, he did not want
to represent the client. He he felt he he felt he may have a conflict. It could be a close call. Not that he did legally, but >> on the to air on the side of caution, he said, "I think you should get a different attorney." >> Okay. >> Hence me.
>> Thank you. Um, in previous testimony it was mentioned that there is no third-party um, goods being transferred and um, there was question around who owns the tires when they're picked up. That was supposed to
be followed up on. So, I'm here to follow up on that question. >> Once we pick up the tires, we take ownership of the tires. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I take exception with the class the characterization that you know a D1 is
not a is is a minor application and that was stated earlier. Uh just to note that um what is the propane intake for >> house heating and um it was already there for cooking
>> the material of the fence it's corrugated. We we're we're obviously flexible on the material defense. We suggested something we thought was reasonably aesthetic. It is essentially perpendicular to the
road. So, it's going to be quite difficult to see, we think, but we're we're totally open on on a different sort of fence. Would you characterize that as a campus-like setting for the existing material proposed >> given the nature of this site as it's
developed now? I think that's reasonable. >> Okay. Is there any hardship if you're compelled to use the property in conformity with the permitted uses of the zone as it stands today? >> That's not the legal standard that the board has to follow here. The question
is under the Medici standards is the site particularly suitable for the proposed use and then there's a case called children's institute that says well we have to compare that to the other things that are permitted and your
your governing body has said warehousing fabrication I think the board recognizes something will be there something is going to be there your governing body has said warehouses fabrication
manufacturing is okay in some form we understand that small >> your next point uh >> Kathy please. >> Yes. Um can you since I can't really see the diagram can you describe the activity of bringing uh the tractor
trailer into the lot. Um the the pictures that were circulated show trucks um end to end and I'm trying to understand given the the size of the lot there on the left how that is to occur. Is there enough space for a tractor
trailer to be able to pull in make what I what I would consider a K turn to be able to butt back into another truck? The tractor trailer is headed in in this location on the northwest corner of the site. Tractor trailer is parked here.
The single unit truck will pull in into the site and back up to the tractor trailer. >> Okay. But the tractor trailer has to be able to get into position, right? >> The tractor trailer will be parked in this location. The cab of the tractor
trailer is at the north end. The trailer is behind it. Where the loading will occur will be on the south end of that truck. The single unit truck will back up, pull in
this way and back up so that the back of the single unit truck is against the tractor trailer. Okay. >> It will then they will take the trucks. Keep doing it. >> Eric, you answered her question. She already said, "Okay." Yeah. >> Okay. So, in in order for that trailer
to leave, is there enough space for that trailer to maneuver to leave the site or does it have to back out >> the and this was submitted to the board. This is heat one of two of the vehicle turning plant WD62
that we that was prepared by my office. The tractor trailer will back out of that space across the front of the building and then pull forward onto Woodport Road. It will all the backing maneuver is wholly contained within the site.
>> Okay. Um can >> any more questions Kathy? Again, we'd like to vote on this tonight. >> I'm not done with my five minutes. >> 5 minutes and 18 seconds. I don't know what battery you got. >> So again, we'd like to vote on it. So,
is the public able to ask questions? >> Yes, but there's a limit to the point when we say >> limit those, Mr. Chair. >> Excuse me. >> Is there a limit? >> Five minutes or less. >> So, you >> you made a lot of good points. A lot of what? >> I'm not done. >> How much more do you have? Once again,
we have to put a limit on it, Kathy. >> I understand. Um, >> how much more do you have, though? If you can figure with the time that you have there. >> Okay. Um, is it true that this uh application has a total of 11 variances requested
including existing pre-existing in bulk variances? >> I don't know the precise count. I haven't counted certainly all listed in the review letters. >> The number of variances doesn't matter. It's use variance and they all get subsumed in anyway. But it's a it's a
number of variances is the answer. >> I think it's around 11. >> Okay. Um, so and and that's just based on what I read. Um, given the grade of Woodport Road into Winona, um, it was talked about earlier. Um, you know,
there's been some cha challenges in town with the Davis, you know, being that it's a similar grade over on Glen Road. Um, there is a concern with children. Um, that is an active area. Um, it's the town center, right, where our movie theater is. You know, this is an active
area of town. Um so I guess the point is has the grade been considered for you know runaway trucks and and and such in your calculation >> an existing condition that every truck on that road has to face. So no not for
this application. >> Okay. Uh let me just see if I have one more for you. >> Good Kathy. Um, I guess I'm good since you're rushing
me, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> I'm not I apologize, but there's one individual left, I think, and >> my topics have largely been covered. So, >> Oh, thank you, sir. >> Let's move on. >> Thank you, sir. >> And your name and address to the secretary, please?
>> Adrien Mman, 12 Brook Drive. Adrien, raise your right hand, please. Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the proceedings before the board tonight's help you God? >> I do. >> And how you spell your last name, Adrien? >> M E R M A N.
>> N Adrien, as you know this with everyone else, please keep it brief and under five minutes so we can vote on this application. >> Yeah, most most of my points have been asked about. >> All right. Thank you. >> It's just something about the hours of operation. We started out uh with 74. it
became expanded to 75 to accommodate the returning trucks from uh Lakewood and Fleetwood, Pennsylvania. That Fleetwood, Pennsylvania, is that the Fleetwood between Reading and and Allentown? >> Uh yeah.
>> Yeah. So that is the way I drive it. That's two and a half hours when I go in my sports car each way. Um, how long does it take to unload your truck in Fleetwood? >> Uh, we just drop and hook an empty
trailer. We don't >> and and they hook up an empty trailer and you drive that one back. >> Yeah. I'm just I'm just concerned about the hours of operation. If you leave at 2:00, say in between, >> don't waste your time on that. The board the board will take care of that issue.
way after 4 or 5:00, meaning it will become in the winter time partly a nighttime operation. Um, I don't know what kind of lighting would be required for safety at that point, but it's something that the lighting has not been
thoroughly addressed and I think uh sooner or later it has to be um addressed. Right now, it is a rural entrance to Sparta and it will be turned potentially into an industrial entrance to Sparta. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Adrian, for your comments. See, no one else in the public has any comments or questions or come back to the board. The board members have any other questions or comments before I ask for a motion. >> Chairman, no chance to address any of
that. Not your procedure. >> Excuse me. Would there be a chance to address any of the comments? >> I I'll I'll be less than two minutes. >> Okay. >> I want to address Mr. Steinberg. Uh
>> Matt, two minutes or less. M >> Matt suggested we could call it if if the board is insistent upon a name, but I think the operations uh testimony was clear, a collection facility for tires >> entirely within vehicles. maybe a name
of the use, but I think the testimony was clear. Chairman, uh, one of the members of the public referred to this kind of traffic, this kind of traffic, but the clear testimony here is that the traffic is
minimal and less than any other use virtually. Even if there was a restaurant and there was a re and there was a restaurant here in its history, there would be truck traffic, there'd be a a delivery vehicle. So I am really
asking the board to think deeply about what the evidence is on the negative criteria because that was the big focus here. Your governing body has said warehouses, fabrication, whatever size there could be by right much more traffic. I'm going to say this is a
benefit because he's producing a use that has significantly less not this kind of massive traffic. Sure, there's accidents and there's other traffic, but this is a incredibly low generator. And as a percentage, no one will ever know
the difference. One truck, one large truck every other day benefits to the community. Think >> we understand that. >> Okay. Thank you, chairman. I appreciate the latter get into the redundancy of
it, but we understand I it chairman, it's obviously very it's my client's business and livelihood uh are at stake here. He owns the property. I know that's not a factor, but it's his business and livelihood. And I think there's a fundamental
mistaken >> we exaggerated condition about this kind of traffic. The undisputed testimony is that it's safe >> and that it's a low generator. >> Okay, you made your point, Mrs.
Appreciate it. Thank you. >> The chair will entertain a motion approving Lee Truck and Tire application. >> Okay, Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application number 6-23
for Elite Truck and Tire LLC block 20004, lot one at 409 Woodport Road, seeking C variances for lot area ratio for parking front yard of 36% where a maximum of 25% is permitted. Uh maximum
fence height of 8 ft where six foot is required or permitted I should say. uh is some existing non-conforming variances for lot area 51,086 square feet where a minimum of 80,000 square feet is required. Front yard of 72 feet
where 100 foot minimum is required. A rear yard of 21.3 ft where a minimum of 50 ft is required. Maximum impervious coverage of 43 and a half% where 40% max is required. uh parking area enclosure with no curbing where 6 inch curbing is
required and a D use variance for a tire business which is not permitted use in the ED zone >> uh with conditions outlined in the applicant submitted um exhibit >> number 1 through 20. I'm not going to read them all, but everybody knows what we're talking about except item number
20 >> has been modified to be 7 a.m. to 5:00 pm. Uh all stipulations outlined in the HPA Mr. Simmons's report. Um, notably resurfacing the entire parking lot, not just patching it. Uh, no subcontractors
or any other drop off of tires or other materials to the site other than direct employees of Elite Truck and Tire. Only permitted materials to be transferred are tires. No residential uses in the building. It's for office purposes only. Submission of an asbuilt drawing. Um,
all vehicles and trailers on site are properly registered by the NJ DOT. uh some clarification or confirmation from NJP on the approval of this facility for transfer station or this use at at the address at the applicable address um and according to all plans
representations and testimony tonight. >> I think I got all that. >> You covered and then of course the permits that David had mentioned in his report. But >> David, did we need the bearings for the fence height too when I Yeah, I did mention that. Did mention that. All right. I'm sorry. No,
>> it's okay. Do we have a second? Please. >> Second. >> Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. >> Michael Jacik. >> No. >> Richard Larufa.
>> No. >> Michael Leandi. >> No. >> Richard Roarbacker. >> No. >> Jennifer Pernah. >> No. >> Michael Steinberg. >> No. >> Chairman Kenneth Larry. >> No. Unfortunately, Mrs. Sullik, your
application for the variance has been denied, but >> appreciate your time. >> Oh, thank you for for all your input, etc. Anyone in the audience have any questions or comments on items not on the agenda tonight?
Okay, close the the chair will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Second. >> All those in favor? All right. >> All right.