##VIDEO ID:8XdkJo_iRDM## board meeting for December 11 2024 is called to order the meeting is also being live streamed on YouTube adequate notice of this meeting was provided in the New Jersey Harold it was also posted on a Sparta Township website and its bulletin board in accordance all provisions of the open public meetings act this board does not hear any new applications after 9:30 and we adjourn at 10 pm Sharp practice of disport to salute the flag please rise and join us I pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Marissa please pull the rooll John Finley present Michael josifi here Michael Leoni here Mark Scott here Jennifer Paha here chairman Kenneth Lowry here Glenn keing here thank you we have some resolutions to be memorialized tonight the first one is 24- 2395 Arona realy Corporation rece variance and devarian relief decided on November 13th uh 2024 to Cher Entertainer motion second please a second any discussion Marissa please call the role John fley yes Michael josic yes Mark Scott yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes next application was 16-24 Eric and Allison earler receive variant relief decided on November 13 2024 CHL entertain a motion make the motion second please second any discussion Marissa please call the rooll John fley yes Michael jik yes Mark Scott yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes applications 17-24 John Randy Earl the variant relief decided on November 2024 chairl entertain a motion so moved second please second any discussion Marissa please call the role John FY yes Michael jic yes Mark Scott yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes and last one is 18-24 Ryan and Christen Flynn Force varant relief to cite it on November 13 2024 the chair entertain a motion so moved second please second any discussion Marissa please call the roll John fley yes Michael jic yes Mark Scott yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes thank you for the public hearing the susus county Charter School application 12-24 for D variance relief is being carried to January 8 2025 and they will have to notice again and then the next application 13-23 for Anderson for D variance relief also correspondence from our board engineer David Simmons for the year- end report after the application is heard I'll open the hearing to the public for any comments or questions they may have on items not on the agenda tonight and before we start the application 13-23 I would like to thank board member Mark Scott for his service to this board congratulations on being elected to Town Council and I wish you all the best mark thank you Ken you're welcome and thank you everybody it's been a pleasure application 13-23 or Anderson for devirus Relief please come forward or you can come on your name sir good evening my name is David Gray gr r a y I'm an attorney at Gray law group and I'm representing the applicant on for D1 VAR and Glenn if you're so kind rise up Sir you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth the proceedings before the board can I tell if you got I do and what might your name be T Anderson okay Tor good to see you now after your complete the application to your client I'll open it up to our board professionals and our board members for any questions or comments they may have and after we're finished I'll open it up to the public for any questions they may have and chairman just before you get started I think I ought to take one thing off the table and first off we have six members uh but your number skills uh David are very good so I wasn't worried about that so I'm more concerned over the fact that your uh client is very popular around here and I would suspect that a number of us have stopped in and bought fesh produce whether it's at your Anderson and Andover store or the one out in Sparta so I think just in order to take this off the table completely I'd like to just invoke the rule of necessity because chances are you're a local business you're a very popular business you do it and I think that's a better way of proceeding before we get started does anybody have any problem with that okay absolutely now you got everybody and so as you know this is a d vence you'll need five yes votes to approve it and if it is approved the variant will go to the land in perpetuity as you probably know right I think are there five members tonight six six six six so you will proceed correct yes yes how can we help you well thank you very much for the opportunity to you can have a seat I'm just going to give some brief introductory remarks and then ask you to hear from about uh why he's looking for this and what's going on and uh what we're asking for is a a D1 variant to swap out a sign that is on Mr Anderson's Farm Stand uh that's there now it's going by4 sign off the road on his route 15 Farm Stand and he'd like to replace it with a digital multi media buildo and we're going to explain to you what that's all about and uh we understand what the municipal ordinance of Sparta say about that uh but hopefully you'll hear us out I know you'll hear us out and I appreciate that you'll come to the conclusion that this actually does make sense for this particular situation uh also uh tonight we have George gion he's a representative uh of the billboard company to talk about what it would look like and what it would be and we have a planner uh Donna Holquist who is here who will testify as a if you'll accept her as an expert planner and give some more information about what it means from the town and the interplay between this application ordinance so um you you might recall that we were actually agenda last month and I was in the parking lot actually Mr Anderson had a family emergency that night and unfortunately his father-in-law did not make it through them that's why we really appreciate um this board's indulgences in carrying the matter to tonight and appreciate that opportunity um so just briefly uh if you're familiar with Mr Anderson's Farm Stand on Route 15 uh if you're head noron 15 on the right there there's a sign that probably you might not know about because it doesn't really stick out in your mind it's a little bit dilapitated it needs to be redone one way or the other it's an 854 sign it's got nice planter around the base of it uh and uh that's the sign that we're talking about it's 8x4 uh the closest kind of thing we could get to an 8 by4 uh at the time it looks like we can get an 8.4 by 4.2 sign we are asking for a little slight increase from 8 by4 to 8.4 by 4.2 um so it is a little bit of a a bigger size not sure we're going to be able to get an exact 8x4 when we first did this application quite a while ago the manufacturer didn't have that um but it was possible a change but we are asking for that 8.4 by 4.2 um and Mr Anderson is going to just talk uh to you about uh what he does we know he's a farmer but a little bit more information and why this uh application makes sense for him and hiss but it's not just him and his business that it makes sense for we know that we're in the economic development Zone and we know that we've got support of other local businesses it makes sense for other local businesses in town in this Economic Development Zone that really don't have much of an opportunity uh especially if they're off group 15 to advertise their businesses now the municipal law the resorting law here in uh there's a general prohibition on any uh billboard advertising when I say the word billboard I mean advertising a business that's not at the location where the sign is right so a sign is advertising for the business that's at that location and when I use the word billboard it's advertising for a business that's not at application but we all see signs and billboards around we also some electronic ones so it's not just advertising for businesses that are at that location it's also putting up emergency messaging we'll talk about that a little bit emergency messaging that hopefully benefits part of Township um holiday greetings things of that nature uh but we'll talk about that messaging um further in the application uh and uh even though your zoning laws say no Billboards allowed I dropped my son off at Sparta fate drove 181 Lafayette and down Newton Sparta Road and probably past four or five Billboards so they are there uh and uh we just want to do something that fits in fits within uh Sparta Township we're all like residents here and we want to make it better and and uh hopefully you find that that's the case for Mr Anderson so I'm sorry I'm a little bit longwinded I know we're the only application so we'll get through it at this time you Mr keing has already sworn in uh Mr Anderson so I'd like to uh pass the Paton to Mr Anderson who has um jotted down some information of his notes here and he'd like to go through and tell you a little bit about bit about what this application is all about no further Ado uh Mr Anderson uh would you please tell the board a little bit about uh tour Anderson and your family business here in spart first first of all thank you guys very much for coming out and thank you for the time commitment that you all put into this I know it's Mr Anderson can you pull the microphone a little bit closer to it's a state requirement we have recordings of proceedings Y is that better so thank you guys for um doing this and uh I know you put a lot of time into it so we uh we really appreciate it um so my name is tor Anderson um started my farm uh 20 years ago or 21 years ago I'm first generation farmer um I got married and started the farm the same month and uh convinced my wife somehow that this was a good idea um we uh opened up our Sparta location in 2005 just as a small farm market uh Farm Stand it was a 8 by 12 shed um so it's grown substantially in the last uh 20 years um soon after that we opened a garden center in Sussex uh we still uh currently operate that that um and then we also opened a location on Newton Sparta road which a lot of you are familiar with uh in 2014 um we currently Farm over 300 acres in in Sparta alone and another probably 200 something Acres outside of Sparta um in the past three years we we just added a 7,000 tree apple orchard um on White Lake Road in Sparta which is a I think going to be a big H uh for the sparta Community um this was our first year for letting letting the public in there and uh it was a big big success um so my business is run I I run the whole business but I kind of sucked in all my family so it's a um I got everybody I have four daughters that help me and um my parents help me my nieces and nephews it's uh so we we have in our busy season we have almost 50 people working um so it's a good place for your kids to learn how to work and realize that they better stay in school and learn so they don't have to do this the rest of their life um so we form a lot of different pieces of property around Sparta for different land owners and uh we take a lot of pride in how we how we do it and we love to keep everything looking perfect um because it reflects on the township and um it just it it makes everything look nice around here because I mean The Limited open space that we have have left is uh we try to keep it as nice as possible um so that's that's very very important to us um it's it's it's one of those things where I I'm trying to trying to make sure that agricultural stays a sustainable industry in the area um because if we can't keep doing this um everything's going to get developed and you're not going to have any people enjoy the Farmland they love looking at it but we have to be able to make money doing it um so that's kind of one of the reasons why we're we're trying to add this to our farm so we have a little um outside of the farm income to uh kind of offset our our expenses um in 2017 I was nominated the uh New Jersey outstanding young farmer um and then we made it to the top 10 for the country um currently I'm serving on the board of directors that runs that whole program now so we uh basically travel around the country um in February when we're kind of slow and we put a spotlight on uh young Farmers that are kind of going above and beyond um doing what they do um we work with a bunch of different agricultural organizations trying to promote um egg and make it more accessible for young Farmers trying to get into the business um one of our big one of most important things to my family is uh kind trying to give back to the community um currently I'm the vice president of the Northwest Christian School uh board um we're very involved with Sparta Evangelical Free Church which is right next to us on rout 15 I serve as a trustee there um I'm also on the church building committee right now now I'm working with a lot of a lot of people from the township trying to build a new building there um so we try to we try to incorporate our farm into a lot of these things um in the summertime the church does a big summer camp and brings out probably about eight or 900 kids and we we created a whole program that we take these kids out on the farm and we teach them about everything that's grown in New Jersey and what what we can do here and a lot of them have no idea what what goes on in our state so um try to just educate educate as many kids as we can and show them what we're doing um so every every fall um our farm puts together about 300 meals that we give away uh for Thanksgiving to any anybody that's in need um and we we basically just tell people if you know somebody that's uh in in a bad place or you know is uh in need of a meal for Thanksgiving we cook 300 meals off and we donate them every Thanksgiving um yeah another another big program that we do kind of all year long is um my wife came up with this idea to um we do a Love Thy Neighbor soup and it's it's available all the time you walk in the store and just tell us you want a soup soup you you get the soup for free and you bring it to somebody that you know that's having a bad day or needs needs a little pickme up and so I mean all these things are just uh we like to give back um our farm is we've been blessed in many different ways by our community and we we try to give back as much as we can um I mean we've been the last couple years have gotten um tremendously busier than we were uh which is which is really good so we just want to give back as much as we can um so you're probably wondering why I'm telling you all this and uh I'm I'm going on about myself for so long but I'm look I'm looking for your help um I mean this this sign is going to drastically help our business um we basically rely on Mother Nature year round and it's a challenge some years when we have a drought or we have a late Frost and it kills everything we have planted already or hail storm in the middle of the summer and it wipes out half our crop um so there's just there's a lot of different issues that can happen and um this is just kind of a a more solid uh income that will just uh make things a a little bit easier I guess you could say um I I I was trying to figure this out but I believe I'm the last farmer in Sparta that um relies on a farming business alone to make an income and I just kind of want to I it would this this kind of would help us just to make sure that that stays um you don't have too many farmers to replace me um and there's not too many that are jumping into the business so we're just trying to figure out a way to make it more sustainable that's why we're really pushing this thing um we're we're hoping that it's going to be a benefit to the community to the township um you know letting other local businesses use it um giving the township you know the ability to post any kind of events or um announcements any anything like that and then if there was you know any kind of emergency situation it's kind of an ideal location for for that to be posted so I mean um just hope you consider all these things and uh help us out and Mr Anderson if I I might just ask a couple of questions uh and I'll note that when I asked Mr Anderson to talk about himself a little bit it was like the hardest thing in the world to do to get a farmer to talk about so took months to drag it U Mr Anderson you have uh some businesses I guess in multiple locations is that right yeah and although you you said uh some of the things you intend to advertise on the board like messaging for the town and emergency messages uh but it's your intention to also put up messages that advertise other businesses right yeah and it's also your intention to up messages that advertise your other businesses in other locations is that right yes yeah and uh um can you uh tell tell me again you said you had about 50 employees total when you're working is that throughout the whole year no the busy season we have we're really busy in the spring we're really busy in the fall so it it fluctuates uh considerably through the year and then the winter is is very very quiet um how many employees would you say you have for the winter uh it's probably six okay so you go from like 50 to six yeah so lean times in the winter fair to say yeah very lean you work with other uh well I don't know you work with them I'm assuming you do but you know other businesses in town right yeah um have uh have have you spoken to them about their thoughts on Advertising I haven't specifically spoke with anyone um but I'm sure I work with a lot of different local guys and um I'm sure that would be a would be a big hit if we could if we could help him out yeah now um the the sign the way it is now would you uh agree that you got to do something there it's got to be like redone one one little overdue and is there anything else you wanted to add uh before the board is able to ask you any questions think that's it at this time I'll be happy to open to ask the board you said you let you Mr Greg was your his name my name is Mr yes D you can call your other Professionals in to testify then we after you're completely yeah everything's done then we'll ask our questions if you're so kind for letting me know Mr Anderson I'm going to ask you just to have a seat back here and at this time I'm going to ask to come up and be as usual Glenn if you're so kind absolutely thank you George please raise your right hand do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the proceedings before the board tonight help you God I know how to spell George you got to keep George you can sit make sure you work the mic like a nightclub singer and keep keep your voice up and how do you spell your last name George c r s c i o n e okay Council thank you CR can you uh tell us uh uh Your Capacity and and what brings you here tonight sure about 20 years ago I started getting involved in the billboard business indoor screens outdoor screens of all sizes um I was lucky enough to meet Mr Schoonmaker who is the president of North Jersey advertising and he and I were working together on some other projects and he asked me if I would be able to run Billboards and I thought the answer was yes so we went with it and here we are we've built a really beautiful business um I think the nicest part about my business other than obviously making pretty good money is being able to help people um I just did it again today I had a I had a father whose son died in a choking accident and I hate to hit you it this early but this is just really just happened three hours ago and he's been raising the name of the uh organization is Maverick's Legacy and I think they're pretty prevalent around here but anyways um I saw a post on LinkedIn and I've been following this guy for about a year or two and I actually have a a three-year-old son and a one one and a half-year-old daughter and I called him out of the blue and I said we're going to sponsor ads for you because this is the kind of awareness these are the kind of things other than General business marketing that we like to help with on these signs and we've done it at the Ed's diner sign we've done it on the route 15 sign North and South we've done it on all of my indoor signs um so I guess my point in let me just answer your question so I'm the Billo controller okay so I do all the controlling of of the signs I schedule all the content to show up uh I do the Outreach to the customers I work with the townships when they need something so for example uh Jefferson Township just had their teacher of the year up there for three or four weeks and then the next day they called back and said we had three bus drivers quit we need bus drivers right now so we put a bus driver ad up on all of our boards free of charge within an hour and we've been able to work hand inand with businesses and townships and actually get local businesses phone calls and right now really that's what it's all about is getting people phone calls because taxes are going up costs are going up inflation is crazy um and sometimes there's not a place to advertise if you look at these Billboards in Sparta every one of them is gobbled up by a National Organization or a state department of seat belts or smoke detectors or you don't see John's deli up there now you see those on our Billboards because we work with the local companies we work with their budgets we work with their time frames we work with them on payments but but you don't see them on the outfront boards or the Lamar boards that's what we specialize in and we're happy about that because you know Lamar and outfront they don't want our customers right we're working with the local businesses not the local National businesses Mr Crush what's what are your connections with Sparta uh so I grew up in Sparta I went to Pope John um I own several businesses in Sparta right now I actually just opened up a silven learning center on Main Street is my newest business um I have used some billboard advertising to get going it's been it's been great so um as a local business owner you know besides from doing this um I I'm really in touch with hundreds of businesses in town and the feedback that I get is we love what you do we wish there was more of it we wish we could afford to do this forever you know I mean it it's it's a need other than Facebook marketing or it's real life marketing is scarce right now um can you um describe and I I know that our planner is going to go into it but can you describe the specific location and the sign uh that tour uh intends to asking to sure so I'm a billboard guy obviously so I noticed these signs and many years ago I realized that Mr Anderson had a DOT number on his board which means we're not asking for a billboard this has been a billboard for 35 years this has always been a billboard this is nothing new what we're asking to do is similar what we asked to do in Frankfurt we would like to take a sign that's becoming dilapidated on this brand new Farm Stand property and revive it okay and allow local businesses just like Mr Anderson probably has local products from farms and you know all curated within his pies and his cakes and stuff we'd also like to bring that same um local business marketing aspect to his farm with this sign um you know we're not asking for a large increase in size we're actually really not asking for any increase at all um so the sign will appear to look identical to what we currently have okay so nothing's really going to change other than the fact that we will safely be able to change a message instantly for the township for a local business uh maybe for all those new restaurants and shops that just opened up in the North Village I mean I have pulled those people they are they are frothing at the mouth to get this billboard because they would love to direct people off of Route 15 into their happy hour or into their Jersey mics um and I'll just give you a testimonial I'm working with somebody who is on the sparta Economic Development uh Council and he owns a local business business in town off the beaten path on Park Lake Road and he has been working with my marketing and we've been having new people come in the door and he said this is great so I asked him to write us a letter about supporting this sign and and he did so um I know we have it on file somewhere but um the local businesses would be really excited about an affordable place to Market on that road especially Mr prion uh Mr Simmons uh submitted a letter uh to the board we have it uh and it asked for some uh more information testimony if you will about things like brightness levels a little bit of specifics are you are you you're familiar with what those specifics would be right uh so uh on uh Mr Simmons's report one of the uh points brought up was to provide testimony that nighttime bright level uh would be um the limit light light nighttime brightness level for an on premise electronic message center to three foot candle above ambient light conditions at an appropriate distance so can you explain what those words actually mean to people who are not so uh familiar with point three foot candles and ambient like conditions that sure I so I don't know how comfortable feel giving you the scientific explanation of that but I can tell you through my experience in controlling about seven or eight different brands of major Billboards which would be doctronics for metco watchfire um here's my point every single sign is 150% fully adjustable so what happens now is based on the the municipality that the sign is going to we let our sign manufacturer know prior to shipping this is how we need this sign dialed up and it can't be any brighter than this and it can't be any darker than this at certain times Etc so they will calibrate our sign based on your requirements before it even gets here so Mr crushy on some of these requirements are to limit sign brightness to 5,000 nits during the day 500 nits at night can you just briefly tell us what nits are and confirm that you have the ability to sure so the knits are the measurement of the lightness of of the bright and back to my previous Point these Billboards are totally automated now so as so today was actually a perfect example on a day like today where we had that really really dark overcast day this billboard is going to be automatically dimmed down as if it were still nighttime um so it's going to read the ambient light based on what kind of day it is and it's going to give you a nice comfortable read yeah one of the things people don't is to see a billboard that's got pixels out or half of it's missing it's there's like some kind of malfunction what happens if there is any typ of malfunction it look sure so I'll tell you that in my experience with the kind of providers that we get these Billboards from we pay top dollar for a quality product maybe in 10 years we've had one pixel go out so um I think that the fact that we buy really really high quality products is a big difference and I'll tell you where they didn't do it they didn't do it all the way up in Branchville and you used to see a digital billboard up there next to the jumboland diner and that was a great example of a company that didn't buy a quality product it was too bright it wasn't adjustable now the Billboards are gone so and and the reason I mentioned that is the quality of the display is everything can you confirm that if there is a malfunction the display go dark automatically will go dark if if that's how we have it programmed so for instance if half the billboard goes dead for some reason it will power it down can you confirm that it there would not be any scrolling or animation on the message none of our Billboards have that and can you confirm or tell us what is the uh time between switching messages sure so it's it's a state manded state mandated 8C flip it has to be a seamless flip it can't be a slide a flop a wipe pop it has to be a seamless flip um which is weird because there's a little bit of a disagreement between the on premise digital marketing rules because you'll see an American flag waving but on a digital billboard there's no movement allowed so no the do does not mandate any movement whatsoever other than a instantaneous flip of the ad 8 seconds long and can you confirm that is valid hey Dave just keep your voice up a little bit I want to make sure you get in pick yep sorry thank you uh Mr crushon can you confirm that there is in fact an NJ do permit that is valid and issued to the applicant yes there is okay uh can you tell us uh briefly about uh what types of messages uh are in ended to go on the billboard so once we launch and we have our contact information up there um anyone's liable to call um most of the time it's obviously local businesses or organizations looking for help um so in my experience it's it's all been very relevant businesses to the sign they're all going to want to use it um and other than that it's it's been pretty we've just been had business marketing you mentioned uh busing companies schools what about local police departments well we work with them every day they'll ask for something you know the Andover Township bean bag toss I mean all these little things you know to be honest I feel like we've turned really bad fundraisers into pretty good fundraisers for people um you can ask the Frankfurt Township Fire Department that I mean they call me every other day we're have I mean I've never seen someone do more beef steaks in my life but you know what it must be working and as long as they're having a beef steak we put it up on that billboard and that does a couple things that that even helps our our our diner running the ad because those people go to see the ad um it is really a full circle thing that happens when you're marketing everybody kind of wins um can you tell us about uh other billboards in town uh and how this billboard would be either the same or different than other Billboards sure so um I'll run through this quickly because I've taken note of all the Billboards in town so coming down 181 you have the Jefferson recycling billboard on the right that's a single-sided board it's probably four times the size of what we have then right after that there's a double-sided out front billboard 10 by 15 once again double the size maybe bigger um then you head down that yep you were just talking about Route 15 and Jefferson right can you yeah so I'm I was referencing sign I just I want to get a comparison yep so I think what Mr Gray was asking me was the other Billboards in Sparta okay okay so in comparison to what we're asking for those two signs on 181 that I just referenced are double to Triple the signs of of the signs that we currently have okay um then you have the ones near sky you you have four Billboards right next to each other two of them going on the right hand read and then two of them that are kind of set up in the woods they're all outfront Billboards sometimes it'll be the same ad right next to e it'll be a plumber and the same plumber right next to each other not very tasteful if you ask me but this is a whole different thing so even those boards two to three times the size maybe even four times the size of what we are asking for but those are just poster boards those are not LED kind of things like you're asking for correct they are but they're lit me Jennifer you could hold those important thoughts until they're complete and when they get to our time to ask all those questions definitely follow up on but I want them to complete the application first go ahead okay and same with Mr Simmons report don't get too involved with all his notations yet because he's going to present it and then you guys can reply to him so I don't want to go off course so so just to answer your question um there are about 10 Billboards in Sparta that are quadruple the size two to three times the size of what we are currently asking for notably by the railroad tracks near The Bagel Station less than one tenth of a mile away from this site on a 25- foot pole there are two enormous Billboards that are usually taken by national companies um and in between I have nette Nanette has had that billboard for quite a while the real estate agent with the headband and then the orthopedic center has been on the other side but the point is this if we are able to get this done for Sparta we will open up 16 brand new opportunities for a small local business to advertise on an affordable sign not $33,000 a month not crazy National numbers an affordable sign for a local business that really truly needs it thank you Mr creson going to ask you to have a seat you can call your next professional Mr Greg please this time I'm gonna ask Don hquest uh to please come up Mr ke you are so kind again to swear them men and qualify you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth of proceedings before the board tonight tell you God yes I do who are you um good evening my name is Donna home why don't you sit down so we make sure we get your mic speak into that microphone just dead space okay my name is Donna Holquist the last name is spelled h o l m QV i s t I'm the CEO and founder of preferred Planning Group um my business address is 110 Chestnut Ridge Road Site 192 Montville New Jersey I can give my qualifications I'll help you Donna you're a licensed professional player in the state of New Jersey yes since 1990 and by whom are you employed myself what do you do do you represent boards you represent applicants yes um I I do applicant testimony um I'll just share an application I did for a farm Hawk Ridge Farm in Jefferson they were doing something very creative with uh rebuilding Cottage houses seasonal Cottage houses uh to year- round housing for their workers um and we got a use variance for that so that's right in your neck of the woods uh as far as Municipal Consulting I recently finished a master plan for the burough of Riverdale in Morris County and I'm currently working on one for Englishtown in Mammoth County and Donna you've appeared before numerous boards throughout the state you've appeared in court as an expert yes Superior Court Tax Court um federal court I'm representing the buau of Emerson right now in Fe federal court you do it all right yes and I've qualified in over 120 municipalities in New is valid as of tonight yes that satisfactory thank you Glen any questions from the board all satisfied it's just to save you time understood thank you very much go ahead please sure to um to just expedite I I have some handout exhibits um should I bring those to the chair or to our board attorney how many do you have done how many different ones oh just one oh much make our life easy all right so for the record we're going to mark it as one and it's going to uh for identification purposes it's called location context Anderson Farm sign Sparta Township um prepared by Planning Group D pass one down for this for the brains of the outfit here please just Mark that as any one sure um yeah I'll just um you know set that exhibit up for you the did you prepare this yes okay uh the base map that we used um is leaf off it's from March uh 2024 we subscribed to a service called near map so it's not a Google map it's from uh the near map mapping service and it's again from March 2024 um one of the distinctions of of the subjects I the Anderson farm that you should be aware of is the Dual Frontage they have Frontage on Route 15 which is approximate um almost 1,00 or 2,000 ft they also have Frontage on the other side on Lon Lane um and that's about 1,800 or thereabouts of Frontage so interesting um characteristic of this property is that they have the Dual Frontage it is a preserved Farm uh per the county and it totals 11.5 Acres um as you know Route 15 is uh a through Road for tourism and Recreation as well as your local traffic and it's a very high traffic uh roadway um according to the county um traffic volume data it's about 28,000 vehicles on both ways on that uh rout 15 Corridor right outside our site to the north of the subject site in terms of uh tourism and points of interest that people may be looking for that may find guidance on this proposed sign um the Skyland Museum of Art the frier um Mount Railroad Museum is to the north of the site and also to the south of the site is the vankirk Homestead Museum in Lake Mohawk when we look at the proposed use uh George testified to the dimensions I'll I'll just go through those again um we're asking for a modest increase um from 32 square ft to about 35.2 Square ft very minor and um that really has to do with as he said the standard uh signage Dimensions that lend themselves to this application I don't look at this sign as a billboard I look at it as an electronic message center because it is of such a small size and it really is as George said um catering to the local market and the immediate region of Sparta and uh surrounding businesses some of the benefits of an electronic message um Center sign are reducing the number of signs as you know the farm already has you know a few signs they have the ice cream sign the main sign and maybe they may have also seasonal signs advertising what the activities are so this sign would condense all that signage and all that messaging into one neat uh location the signs uh as George said you can control the glare and the light trespass based on the manufacturing standards of the sign and also it can accommodate an emergency message if there's a weather event or a school um God forbid emergency um there could be a transmission of a message for people to spread the word very quickly um we have Flex ibility with these type of signs and um the ability as George said to help multiple local businesses U by advertising not just Anderson farm so really is as I see it as a planner an opportunity to strengthen the economic development in the community as a whole um I looked at the um readable height uh that is required there's a 50 mph uh speed limit on Route 15 and this site is appropr given that speed and how many feet per second somebody would travel uh to give them enough time to see the lettering um obviously the sign has to be a certain size to get um the correct lettering size uh for vehicles traveling at that speed so while you may uh look at 35 square feet or I believe it's 35.2 we're looking for that's in my opinion as a planner a very small sign for vehicles that are traveling 50 m an hour and look looking to read the message um just turning to the exhibit now uh what we did was color code uh the Anderson farm in green so that you can see just how extensive it is and that it does occupy land on both sides of of Leighton Leighton Avenue Leighton Road and um we colorcoded the commercial development uh you're familiar with the Sparta Medical Center directly across from the farm and then uh towards the South closer to the railroad um that's in a C1 Zone this the smaller multiple businesses um that are located in that um area and Don if I might just interrupt is it correct to say that there's no residential uh houses so here that would uh that would from their house uh that's correct and you can see on the on the left side of um the west side of Route 15 uh to the left of of the red shading uh we also showed enough of the area to see the development that is accessed by Primrose Lane and um that is a very substantial distance away from this and um there there will be no impacts in my opinion the subject site is is in the Ed Zone and uh the opposite side of Route 15 is is in the ed1 zone and of course you understand that the North Village uh quite far north maybe within a mile of the site is was where uh Sparta has elected to have a mixed use very substantial and wonderful mixed use development there um this the sign um regarding Primrose Lane and the access to the closest residential development um the sign where it exists now and where it is proposed to be in the same location is about 800 feet north of the intersection of Primrose Lane uh with Route 15 and so obviously as you can see on the map the residences are set back even further to the West um the other thing I want to call your attention to on this map is um the topography uh the Topography is very level along Route 15 where Anderson Farm is and it only varies between maybe 616 feet closest to the railroad and Rises up maybe near the church to about 625 um so given U the distance uh that we were showing on the map it's extremely level which in my opinion makes it very appropriate for the size and type of sign that is being proposed I also looked at some of the uh IM signage in the immediate area and uh we were not able to get the exact dimensions but the near map service that I subscribe to has um different options on there um 3D oblique and they're very accurate in fact I want to say that a lot of surveyors use near map to verify elevations uh structures all that type of things so it's very accurate so what I did to try to gauge our 3528 uh square foot sign and its compatibility with what exists in this immediate route for Route 15 quor um I did scale the sign panels uh of um the Sparta Medical Campus um they have two freestanding signs Monument type signs there's a Frederick's fuel business that's in a different Zone that's in the C1 Zone they have a free standing sign and uh The Bagel and Deli and so what I was coming up with was as I said we're proposing about 35 .25 square fet and the Sparta Medical Campus um each sign is about 40 to 50 give or take uh square feet the Frederick's fuel sign is about 35 to 40 square feet and uh The Bagel and Deli is a little more complicated signage um because of the stacking of the faces and the irregular shape so I estimated that about 60 square feet um we are not changing the setback of our sign there is a shoulder on both sides of Route 15 and uh our sign will be in exactly the same place it is now which is about 21 ft to the edge of the travel Lane of Route 15 and again I think it's appropriate to leave the sign where it is because you want the message within the driver's field division and you want a certain elevation which in this case I find to be appropriate uh so that the sign can be easily read on on the approach by the moving vehicle um as was stated before your zoning ordinance prohibits what is termed in in the code AS Advertising Signs to me as a planner that means off- premise sign signage where you're advertising something that is is not occurring on the actual site but this electronic message sign that is part of this application is actually in my opinion a hybrid because it will be advertising um activities events um material to be sold and and so forth of the Anderson Farm but also will incorporate that Economic Development aspect to include other businesses and also possibly a public safety act uh aspect if that becomes uh requested or necessary so we are requiring um variances from section 18- 4.2e which prohibits uh uses um any use not specifically permitted is prohibited um so we are not coinciding with that uh Advertising Signs are prohibited in all zones per section 18- 5.3m 3B we need a variance for that um the code talks about um a purpose of controlling the size and location uh and the character for uh signage a b it refers to on premise signage and um we we are compatible with the surrounding ings based on my analysis of the existing area and the exhibit that I submitted as evidence to support my conclusion offered to you um this will be expressive of the identity of individual Proprietors and Foster a greater Community character and I do not believe it will be distracting to motorists because as pointed out in your board engineer letter we will comply with all of the dark sky requirements that he recommended um to be part of the application um regarding um signage requirements for the Ed and the ed1 Zone uh the ed1 zone is directly across the street from us where I cited uh the other signs that exist that I looked at and we are in the E Zone the standards for those signs in the code our one freestanding sign with a maximum of 48 square feet we're considerably less than that existing and proposed double face signage is permitted we will have the electronic message on both sides of our sign um the setback we are uh having existing non-conformity but your code allows signage within 25 ft of the right of way and uh the maximum height allowed is 16 ft and we're considerably below that so for those reasons I think we are essentially consistent and compatible with the standards of the community for signage um I won't go into a lot of detail as the chair said item by item but uh your board engineers's letter summarized the dark sky requirements regarding brightness light sensors um default ad times brightness adjustments uh the procedure if there's a malfunction um the movement of messaging and uh prohibition on video and we will comply with all of those requirements stipulated in the engineers review so turning now to the master plan which is from 2020 in Sparta um there's an emphasis on looking at local conditions and also sustaining the economic base of the community uh as I indicated on the exhibit we're on a highway corridor very high volume area of 28,000 plus vehicles um daily volume and um we are compatible uh the variance is compatible with the master plan land use policies because we are fostering Economic Development um the advertising of businesses many of which will be in town um supporting a customer base for those businesses and also uh fostering the activity on a preserve Farm preserve Farms um in my opinion as a planner form a public P purpose because those lands um they will never be developed if it is a preserved Farm by the county it won't be developed um it's in perpetuity and in the green on the exhibit we showed the land that is preserve Farm per the county so it's very substantial with the Anderson farm so turning now to the statutory criteria we need a D1 use variant per the ml um and we need to submit proofs for the positive and the negative criteria to hopefully enable you to Grant this relief um we need to show you that we advance the purposes of planning and that the site is particularly suited for this use and to offer those special reasons I would again say to you this highway Corridor has commercial development directly opposite this site the existing residential development which we showed on the aerial is 800 plus feet away and will not be impacted by uh this proposed sign the sign is essentially the same size as what exists now um and is really just a message center I would never call this sign a billboard um there's a real distinction in my mind between those two um the topography also lends itself to a sign at this location which is easily readable for vehicles uh within the 50 mph speed limit the two purposes of planning that I submit that we advance are uh per njsa 40 colon 55d -2 and that is subsection a which states encourage Municipal action for the appropriate use to promote public health safety and Welfare I think the testimony supports that and subsection G provides sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of uses to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens I think this sign will achieve and further both those purposes of planning regarding the negative criteria there are two prongs to that no substantial detriment to the public good and no substantial impairment to the intent and purpose of the Zone plan or zoning ordinance looking at the first one no substantial detriment to the public good promoting economic development is something consistent with the master plan um encouraging Farm preservation I see I think is linked with this electronic message center um the sign right now is not achieving a purpose uh it's very hard even to read that website address that's on there uh I think this will go a long way to enabling the farm to really reach its full potential along with aiding other businesses um it's located on a tourism and Recreation route there's so much open space Sparta is so fortunate to have so much preserved open space and I'm sure a lot of visitors um come to your area and they're not familiar with it and so I think a signage like this would help direct them um to uh points of interest and businesses to visit while they're here regarding no substantial impairment to the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and zoning ordinance this sign is small compared to the signs on the opposite side of Route 15 it is only very um small enlargement to in comparison to what's there now and the distance to the only residents uh that we indicated on the aial is is quite a large distance and so that concludes my testimony and uh I would be happy to answer any questions all right thank you Donna and you have one more professional you said Mr GRE no that's that's it includes the presentations all right thank you we'll now open it up to our board attorney David if you're so kind to go over your report Mr chairman I appreciate the promotion to board attorney but I better stick with engineering and you certainly don't want me doing the engineering man no no problem apologize no no problem Mr chairman just a joke uh referring to my report of April 10th 2024 uh I will F between the applicants three Witnesses they covered a significant portion of my comments but just a couple things I'd like to highlight for the board uh with regards to my comment number 4A with the existing sign the township section 18- 5.3 MAA requires a minimum offset distance of 25 ft from the RightWay line uh my understanding is the applicant wants to basically if the board approves the application construct the sign in basically the exact same place that it is now maintaining the existing offset off the RightWay line I will say that based on the information that was presented the existing ing edge of the sign closest to the route 20 excuse me Route 15 RightWay is very close if not on or in the RightWay so the one suggestion I would have is that if the board does approve this that the applicant surveyor Stakes the RightWay line so they're definitely not in the state right away so we don't run into an issue with the dot on that uh the other thing I'd like to comment on is item 4f where I mentioned about uh eight items that they should adhere to if the board grants the approval as far as the operation of the sign and I would just comment that over the years uh when we first had one simple and I say simple Basics electronic sign come in that just had basically one line of text if you will and one color uh at that time my recollection is some of the controllers and the state-of-the-art of the signs at that time was as Mr Gray said when you order from the factory it's basically preset to certain conditions and that's what you've got my understanding from this application and I believe the current state-of-the-art if you will is that the controllers for these signs are adjustable and the good part about that I think is the fact that it's kind of like art I can't explain it to you but I know when I see it well the 500 and the 5,000 nits are what we've been using consistently from application to application but in the real world if that turns out to be too bright there's an adjustment that's possible to tune it down and I would suggest that if the board is considering granting the application that a condition be that upon observation of the signage in practice and operation if in fact there's a significant concern that the applicant be willing to adjust it as necessary that's a question yes I don't want to testify about it but uh I think if I could just Mr Anderson up to confirm that Council Council all you have to do all you have to do we're not that quite that formal the sign is dimable if it has to be is that correct 100% and we'll be happy to be in communication with Township officials to make sure he he'll be the guy okay so other than that Mr chairman I believe they've covered all the items that I had concerned about with regards to this application just one question David about covering the potential survey for the RightWay he had mentioned that as a potential condition yes uh actually as we normally do because usually there's some variances involved and some distances involved my comment number 6B uh if again if the board approves the application that when it's installed that we have an ASB built plan prepared by the applicants licensed land surveyor and since I'm sure uh they've had surveys done to this property in the past that's why I'm suggesting that the called Route 15 North South the easterly RightWay line actually be staked in the field so that when they go to construct this sign we know for a fact that they're not inside the dot right away thank you David yes sir we would have no objection for that to be R you could open it to the other board members if you're so kind to call upon them John pinkle uh I just like to say that the professionals all the professionals the testimony answered a lot of my questions and uh I have no questions thank you Michael jic yeah just a few questions um are there any other LED type Billboards in town here yes yes there are do you mind you want me to enumerate them yeah uh let's see I just want to understand their sizing if you have it for comparison okay the size I I will not have that no um but Mr creson had put together a collage of of photographs I don't know if that was submitted um but on there he had um the Reverend George a brown Memorial school/ Our Lady of the Lake um that has one I'm sorry I don't know the size um the other is uh Sparta High School and the third one he had um is the I'll call it computer uh use Urgent Care Computer Urgent Care 513 uh Lafayette um that has from what I saw like a black background and I wasn't really clear what the message was on there but all of those are I guess Bill I'm not going to call them Billboards or messaging electronic messaging centers or whatever but do they advertise other local businesses or they I don't know strictly for their business I I don't know those microphone please Donna you can stay there because that microphone's live too you can just go right there yep so those are all digital on premise signs that she was referring to so off the top of my head you have one outside here which is a full color sign um the sign that we're referencing would look most like your sign here okay very similar to that um the one by the computer urgent care which was the old Mexican restaurant which is half broken right now um that's a that's an on- premise sign Reverend Browns is an on- premise sign um you have several digital gas signs in town um and while I have the mic I'll just share that this past weekend I was driving through the center of Sparta where you have that really nice sign by the middle school okay and out side of that sign where it usually says every day is a good day to shop local were two rented digital signs the the orange construction signs rented flanking in the right in the center of town with a message half of it was out my point is when I saw that I saw the need for messaging when I saw those two construction signs parked outside of the I said they must need digital messaging because it's really not easy to put those letters up every day so um but all the digitals that have been mentioned by Donna are on premise the one that would look most similar to our sign would be yours here right in the parking lot M okay all right thank you um my next question goes to um how much of the sign is dedicated to actually advertising the farm vers advertising local businesses because I mean testimony was given that the one of the purposes of this sign was to condense some of the other signs on the property but if you're purely just going to be advertising how is that going to sure so the way that condense so the way that would work would be um whatever content Mr Anderson has for the farm would go into one slot into a rotation okay so picture eight available slots on each side one of those spots is for Mr Anderson and he's going to be able to put as much as he wants in there okay then you might have two two business advertisements come up and then the next spot is for Sparta Township where Sparta Township if they decide to use the sign can put as many messages as they want whether it's a local safety message or taxes are due tomorrow whatever it may be all those messages go into the signs so to answer your question um that number will change the percentage will change but the way I've seen it would be about 80% business marketing and about 20% for Mr Anderson um if nobody calls the advertise obviously that changes I don't foresee that happening but um there's always a nice healthy balance between the property that's it's currently on and the people that are at using the sign to advertise okay Mike um yeah some more questions I think go ahead thank you sir go ahead Marissa yeah Mike was finished I think so hold on Mike um wait no I'm not done yeah oh yeah not done now are the sign is it going to be operating 24 hours a day yes yes okay all right that's all michaeli I'm good the testimony grabbed all my questions thank you Mark Scott um thank you uh it was a wonderful uh presentation um yeah one of my questions is where are the other electronic signs in town and I can only think of rever and brown in high school um I was recently elected to the Town Council to do everything possible to maintain the rural quality of this town and that's what people voted for me for if these signs are allowed to come in Route 15 will become Route 17 and this will be look like paramis in no time um you know if the existing planning board professionals are uh successful in uh dragging the diamond ship mega Warehouse across the Finish Line the town will change forever Anderson Farms I think can come back then when the town is actually you know when the town has changed but it's it's it's I'm doing everything in my my power to keep this town looking Rural and quaint and the reason I moved here um you also talked about it's a D1 variance and the code and and you you you you mentioned that the code talks to the character of the town and as I see the character of the town it's a quaint town it's not a pamis um our master plan is some 42 years old it's being redone right now another comment was that it was mentioned many many many times that yeah uh that that there would be other advertising for other towns and public service for other towns and and it seemed to be a contradiction of what the testimony was it it went it both were said the D1 variance is you know it has to be for the public good and I I I'm sorry I don't see that um I'm a hard now thank you and thank you Mark Jennifer manaha thank you um I would concur that the testimony was fantastic and um I'm very sensitive to tour's business and trying to ensure that we keep him in business and he is as as many Avenues to a revenue stream as he can possibly get but I agree with Mark I don't I don't see this aligning with what the town does that being said um you know I've kind of been researching here and many towns have gone through this and they don't end up being able to make the argument that an LED signed but you know I I feel like you've got this beautifully sustainable farm and we all know that light pollution is light pollution you know we moved here so we could see the stars and you know lighting up our town is just to me completely opposing what we're about here I know you mentioned oh you have such a beautiful place with so much open space but we've fought hard to keep that and right now we're in the battle for the life of this town to stay rural people come here and they're like but you have this and you have that yes but we want to preserve that we we want to preserve it as a rural town I I'm just curious did you to have you ever considered any options to this was this the only option that you felt like you had I mean I love your sign out front I mean if it was lit maybe if you had a little bit more room I mean but it it seems to be doing the job it seems here like you just have a really viable way to perhaps bring in a revenue stream and you know we can argue the merits of whether it's a Township or an advertisement you know I'm I I'm perfectly delighted with the fact that you're trying to make a profit with it I think that's perfectly fine but have you thought about maybe putting something that's more like a traditional billboard on the property have you ever you know I'm just curious did you ever go through any of this with your team here to see what the Alternatives were Mr Anderson you can come forward to the microphone please so we I have not um thought about doing a traditional billboard um I the only reason I'm looking at this is because of the extra I mean I'm perfectly blunt with you the extra revenue is um a big game Cher for a for a farmer in Sussex County right now um and I mean I understand what you're saying that you want to keep it as rural as possible but I go out of business I don't know where you're going to find another farmer to farm 300 acres in Sparta right now um so I'm kind of a asset to the community right now as a farmer and I'm you know actively farming every piece of ground I can possibly get in the town and I mean we do a million different things every day to make ends meet so we can get through the year and this just takes a little bit of the and I I get it you say yes to me then there's going to be 10 more people trying to put a sign up so I I understand completely but um you know this is a it's kind of a big it's a big deal for for me as a farmer trying to make a living in New Jersey um and I am 100% for keeping Sparta as rural as possible um you know I I grew up farming all the land underneath shoppr right and I hate to see that right there it's it's you know but there's there's not much we're going to do about that I mean there's a lot of successful businesses in there um but we're going to I mean we're going to continue to farm as as long as we can I'm just trying to figure out how to make it a little bit little bit easier so may I just add one insight for the board to consider Don what was that can I offer one Insight on this discussion for um clarification I I may not have made the point as clearly um apparently um this is a preserve farm and when you look at the Eastern side of Route 15 um that falls within the highlands preservation area so I understand what the board member is saying and uh soon to be councilman about the character of your community but as a planner when I look at it a substantial portion is in the highlands preservation area and that won't be developed and what I was trying to emphasize with the unique feature of this property is that it is preserved Farmland it's not just land that somebody is farming it's preserved by the county I hope that helps thank you Donna next Mir I guess I'm the only one left all right thank you David and Glenn are there any other digital signs in town now that advertise other businesses on them that you would know about not not that comes to the top of my head um as the plan indicated I know at the various gas stations the quick check comes to my mind that's got the digital sign for the prices of the fuel different fuel uh one of the first uh electronic signs that came up was the former Mexican restaurant that's the one I was referring to that when that sign was first put up it basically if I recall correctly subject to checking basically had the ambient light and the maximum nits for daytime and nighttime built into it and it was basically just red text as I recall now there is a sign out in front of this municipal building but it basically advertises Municipal functions to the best of my knowledge it's colored and it and it will change from time to time I believe um there was a digital sign put up on the Middle School my recollection is that was on the building and it was to advertise school events there's a track practice at 5:00 or whatever right that type of thing uh those are the signs that come come to mind in Sparta this would be the first probably in regards advertising all these other businesses in town and out of town subject to checking that's that's my recollection uh thank you David yes sorry to jump in a sign that a sign that just came to mind that is almost identical to what we're proposing is the new digital sign that was just put outside of the is that the fire department there across from the post office what is that the the sparta stage they have that brand new digital sign the ambulance the ambulance building y so indirectly I just on my way here I saw that they're advertising the photography club okay which is not in that building okay so indirectly that is an advertisement for a local business right and and if you watch that sign scroll you will see many businesses and organizations that are not in that building but they're using that location as a great messaging tool for the getting ambulance members and for the photography club and things of that nature so the way I'm hearing it is we're going to be doing nothing different okay the ads are going to show up just as beautiful and professionally as as they have them um we will operate the sign a little differently gearing it towards businesses that are used used to being on these kinds of signs but um identical to what they're doing is what we're going to be doing on on on that's a beautiful sign too by the way that's a watchfire sign that's the kind of brand that we would use you can tell the clarity um the township has had no complaints over brightness over that sign um so that's one that came the all right thank you Mr Greg does any of the professionals have any Renditions of what the sign will actually look like the construction I notic on the one submitt you had a rendition of the new sign just you know what does it actually going to look like because that's a a big issue with this board of these signs what you submitted with the original application package which we're happy to supplement with additional how does the rest ofor board feel about what the sign would actually look like the construction of this sign like we're going through now with another application I think it's important Mark Mike I'd like to see more I don't really understand the distinction between how bright this sign is and these other ones because we're talking about gas stations you've got lines but they're very bright but when you're talking about Pope John and Sparta High School I mean those are kind of oldfashioned like I don't know how to explain it but like dot matrix so the resolution on those is different yeah and and is this more like an LED dis like is it more like a TV display like I'm seeing in you know versus right versus a a just you know yeah this would be a really high resolution and just so you can understand yeah the higher the resolution the less black you have in between the dots as a matter of fact the newest digital signs a lot of times you can't even tell they're digital that's how tight the resolution is you wouldn't know if it was was a regular billboard with Splash lighting like you see all over the place or if it was a digital display and that's where the signs companies have gotten to because of these conversations I was just a little surprised you didn't actually have a rendition photos and construction of what they would look like and I know I would feel more comfortable I don't know if the rest of the board feels the same way or the board wants to take a vote on it tonight without seeing what this you know sign would actually look like where it goes here how does the rest of the board feel do you want to vote on the application tonight or have the applicant come back with Renditions of what it would actually look like what I would suggest I'm happy to come back with Renditions like we submit you're open to that and your applicant if I could just speak to my sure and actually could I ask a question I don't know if this a stupid question but I mean this gentleman I forget his name uh I think that was George George okay yeah really thank you I just wanted to confirm that uh the applicant was okay with coming back oh thank you how does the rest of the board feel about that Mike you had I do and I I do have a question George it sounds like I mean you this is your business you do a lot of sales of these types of signs when you go out and you sell them to people do you have sample LED signs that you could potentially bring that shows the brightness shows what these lights look like like I mean obviously you're not going to bring an 8x4 but do you have you know a smaller you know like a 22in TV version that you travel with and say hey look this is what I selling you but on a bigger scale obviously so yeah that doesn't really exist I see where I see where you're going with that if you wanted to see exactly what we would build okay um resolution wise it would be right outside of the ambulance building that is a right here right here that is a beautiful high resolution watchfire sign that is exactly what we would be asking um and just to elaborate a little more on why there's not a rendition here we had the rendition went in with the application the sign is not changing at all the white columns that are there right now are going to remain right now they're wooden and they're rotting a little bit so we would recreate those to look identically see we want to preserve the sign but we also want we want we want to we want to move forward with it as well right the same thing happened at y's Diner the sign was kind of falling down and the township allowed us to clean it up and move it forward a little bit and it's been great it's been great so what you see there now in terms of the the stanions and everything wouldn't be changing at all George one for me while while we have you here um maybe just speak for a minute on the concerns of light pollution of of a modern LED sign like you're yep um proposing vers kind of a traditional billboard with Splash up lighting right and reconcile those two course us the way I the way I view the Signs Now Okay a regular traditional paper billboard like we see in town here with the splash lighting you have the light that Ricochet off the sign okay and it and it and it tends to create twice the amount of sign uh uh amount of light okay you see that area around those signs kind of glowing where the new digital Signs Now the lighting is contained to the display there is no reflection there is no uh light going in two directions you know this way and this way and and bouncing off of a glossy piece of paper right which sometimes creates hotspots with headlights we get none of that with these with with these Billboards as a matter of fact in all of my years of of uh managing and monitoring these billboards we've never had one complaint not from a person not from a town we have gotten a lot of praise for certain things we've done but we've never had anyone call and say hey we hate this thing not in Lake of pacan not in Franklin not in Belleville hopefully not in Sparta that's helpful thanks thank you so again your your client is open to coming back with we are Mr chairman we come back with renderings I think it would help the board and so forth if you're so kind of what the finished product would actually look like even though you have the rendition here it's not the same of seeing yeah I I I guess I just have a procedural question sure about that if we were to come back and the constituency of the board changed a little bit or maybe there were other members there that night uh and I just want to make sure procedurally that's not going to interrupt the board's business when could cover that I will be happy Mr we will have we're running tapes or videos on this right yes sir so we will have that available to board members that are missing uh normally we have at least one more and usually two more because you haven't gotten the vote a whole lot now have you so I think we'll make those available board members have always been uh diligent in doing that and you know the whole process uh so we would make sure that that's covered and that they had it David thank you Mr ke and yes we welcome the opportunity uh because if there's any I want much as possible thank you and Marissa what and Glenn what's the next date forward I guess it would be the January January 8th 8th meeting yes does that work Glenn time's fine would that potentially work showing off did that potentially work for you too sir Mr Greg the eth Mr Anderson the eth yeah it's a slow time of year for tour can I make this sure this is none of my business but I have sat through more of these applications whether it's on big Billboards off uh Route 78 in Springfield not 78 but 22 in Springfield and stuff are there any other app other examples that the board members could look to for the size that you're talking about besides the ambulance one in spart if there are if you could get that list up to mariss so at least they could get a feel for it I mean I sat in Springfield and listened to a billboard application that went probably six or seven hearings and they were doing things with lers and all this other stuff this is a completely different sign and I assume that it runs differently or will function somewhat differently than the ones down on uh 15 in Jefferson which got bit different they're a bit different bit more state-ofthe-art technology that that's that's my point so that the board members could at least consider that yeah I think what we'll do is we'll submit that information so well in advance of the next meeting if the board members wanted to kind of go around as they driving around and say oh wait you know what let me make a left David this is good this board does that so that would be in everybody's Prov that inform all right thank you so much thank you Glenn so that's uh being carried to the first meeting in January January 8 2025 great chairman you do have um another application Sussex County another yeah so which which one you gon to schedule I mean there's no is there public here are are you with them sir you're a member of the public all right so we have one member of the public here and on that on that note all right well the chairman will get to you but we only have one member of the public so so so you're talking about the the school application that a leas which will'll go first or well the other one's almost complete that I guess the county gold Tech application we could schedule first did that one start no oh yeah yeah that started yeah it's coming to an end they're coming back with a rendition so they're in the same position as this one as this applicant is yes so all right so what do you think I I think that's fine if if they're teed up first right but then let's carry this to a Time certain so that these folks aren't sitting around for a half hour 45 minutes so maybe carry this one to 7:30 or4 to 8 or something all right it's fine fine that's fine with me Marissa you can note that Pi pick a time Mr chairman you go 8 7:30 wa0 7:30 7:30 p.m. okay all right so I guess you want to open yes so now we open it the hearing to the public sir come forward please please give your name and address to the secretary and then our board attorney will where are you in okay Tom scoon Maker 66 Cheyenne Trail Sparta New Jersey your last name Tom SC o o n m a k e r raise your right hand please you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board and I tell you got yes I do okay just want to speak uh specifically to something that Mr Scott brought up um saying that it didn't serve any purpose to the public um I disagree with that because I have some businesses that are hurting right now because of the route 15 debacle where you can't get any traffic up the highway for whatever political reason that is that we're not getting our road widened I can't get people into my recycling facility and I could use all the help I can get so I'd like to be the first one to take an ad on this billboard saying to turn right at the next traffic light um there's a lot of other things things that go on in this town besides just wanting to preserve it I grew up in parcion when there were more cows than voters in that town and I can tell you right now you can wish all you want but you're not going to stop progress with the people that are looking to get ahead I have four children in this town I've had them in here for a long time and they're all in my businesses now and they you know I mean I I I have to help them I I I moved to this town because I thought this was a sophisticated town where the people were very sensible and I you know and I hope that that's still the case um so I I view this sign as a as a big help to to not only to tour but to our community and you know it's great that we have tour as a farmer I got a farm right down the street that he farms and and does a great job I have two places that he farms and uh you know I just think it's it's it's a good common sense decision you know in this in this day and age in the 21st century you got every other kind of electronic device that you have and you know people driving down that Highway since we don't have the good luck to have a road that allows people to travel at a normal rate we're in traffic people from Mars County don't come up to my you know my uh recycling place because they don't want to sit in that traffic so I'm losing I'm losing 50 to 100 tons a day of recyclable material right but the little bit of help that I could get by the vehicles sitting in that traffic viewing maybe my sign or somebody else viewing that sign and have a little chance to think about it because they're sitting there for 20 minutes I think it's a great it'd be a great asset to the town so Mr Scott to to to to just address your the fact that you say that it's not serving the public I think I respectfully disagree with you and I think you need to re take another look at that you know because there's a lot of businesses in this town there's a lot of kids in this town that want to go into business and there's a lot of things going on at the same time I live as the crow flies 10 miles away from my business and I have no problem I enjoy myself on a weekend and and I have no problem I don't you know Route 15 blows through that doesn't affect me I go home and I get off the road and I'm you know I'm I'm fine you know and I go down down to the you know transfer station in the morning I'll pass tourist place I'll pick up some Tomatoes or whatever I get and you know it's just a great a great thing I can't see how it's going to hurt anything thank you all right thank you and just a note our board attorney could probably confirm this that Financial situations I've been on this board for many years never come into determination when a variance is granted just for the notes of uh how it's done you confirm that Mr ke yes sir yeah I'm just tell I understand what you're saying but that he got it he got it all right thank you Tom now the hearing is closed to the public and back to the board any other questions before the applicant leaves okay so you're going to carry this then to Janu uh January January 8th 8 at 7:30 7:30 and there'll be uh counselor there'll be no further notice re required thank you very much very all right thank you all you too thank you then we have uh David Simmons our board engineer not board attorney board engineer with his end of year report David if you're yes Mr chairman of board members I just took a minute to uh summarize all the applications we looked at over the years it's been a very busy year and there were a wide range of activities that we took place and the board uh process through their their due diligence so I just wanted to summarize that for you and thank you for having me this past year and it's been about around 30 some odd years that I've been doing this for you so thank you very much before we adjourn I'd also like to than because the years coming to an end in a few weeks Marissa Ferraro our board secretary and her zoning planning office for all the work you've done our board Attorney Glenn ke or board engineer David for all the work you've done in hard dedication to this board and of course all the zoning board members I appreciate everyone here and your input as usual and thanks to you too Ken oh you're welcome thank you everyone we can have a motion to adjourn so moved second second second all in favor I thank