posted on the township website and this bulletin board in accordance to all in accordance with the open public meetings act now can I have a motion to go into executive session so move second
please second roll call marissa landon Tineri yes michael yes michael Leandi yes richard Robacker yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes and this is for zoning board planner contract
negotiations order this meeting is being live streamed on YouTube also no new testimony or applications to be heard after 9:30 p.m and we adjourn at 10 p.m sharp advocate notice of this meeting
was provided in the New Jersey Herald it was also posted on the Sparta Township website and its bulletin board in coordinance to all provisions of the open public meetings act please rise and join us salute the flag pledge allegiance to the flag of
the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisy and justice for all for the world marissa please call the roll
landon Tineri here michael Joseph here michael Leandi here richard Robecker here chairman Kenneth Larry here we have Louis Karp here excuse me all right we have a few resolutions to be memorialized
first one is Lindsay Knight zoning board appointment for planner chair will entertain a motion so moved second please second marissa please call the role literary yes michael Joseph yes michael Leandi yes
richard Robacker yes you need to do the chair oh chair McKenz Larry yes sorry next one is application 619
711 block 2016 lot 112 and 13 extension of time which was decided on February 26 2025 please call the um have a motion to memorialize that so moved second please second any discussion
marissa please call the role literary yes michael Josik yes michael Leondi yes richard Robecker yes next resolution is 12-24 Sussex County Charter
School for Dvarian decided on February 26 25 2025 the chair will entertain a motion so moved second please second any discussion marissa please call the role landon
Tineri yes michael Joseph yes michael Leondi yes richard Roarbacker yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes the last one is application 13-23 door Anderson decided on February
26 2025 for Dvarian chair will entertain a motion no move second please second wake up any discussion one stupid question real quick sure this
is to memorialize the resolution that turns down nine okay that's all I needed to make sure of i It's what I thought we were doing but just to make sure marissa please call the role michael Dosic yes
richard Robecker yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes and would we'll approve the minutes to September 11th minutes 2024 chair entertain a motion so moved second please
second any discussion marissa please call the role michael yes landon Tineri yes chair McKenna Larry yes and we also have the January 8 2025 minutes to be approved the chair will
entertain a motion so moved second please second any discussion marissa please call the role landon Tineri yes michael Jac yes michael Leondi yes chairman Kenneth Larry
yes okay we also have our new planner for a brief presentation that she's so kind to make tonight and I'll open the floor to Lindsay Knight all right so we are going to go through
kind of an introduction to Dvariances and specifically we're going to go through the D1 D2 and then just some case law that's applicable to these variances um so what is a Dvariance i'm sure you guys if you've been on the board you know it's a form of relief um
from local zoning uh zoning ordinances and the MLUL or the municipal land use law um kind of lays out the standards for D variances um and that D is what stands for the section of the MLUL so
kind of bolded it at the end it's 4055D-70 so that's where um when you hear D that's where it's coming from um only the zoning board of adjustment can grant a Dvariance um it requires five affirmative yes votes for approval and
um it's important to note that that counts for if you only have five members there if you have six members there seven members it's always going to be five so you might have instances where an applicant is required to have those five votes and there's only five members
of the board there and you might wish to carry their application um an application will never go to both the planning board and zoning board the application will have to be um the zoning officer will uh be the person who determines what board it goes to um and
usually or always devariances are going to end up here at the zoning board so it could be a subdivision with a Dvariance but it will be at the zoning board for that variance um the standards of proof are much tougher than a C variance um it's devariances are looked at in a much
more serious way because a lot of the impacts from the devariances um are much larger much bigger to the community um and it's important to note as well that every application must looked at be looked at individually and independently um you can't look at a
similar application that happened two years ago and make a decision based on that you have to look at the facts that are presented with each case excuse me Lindsay just for the public our new planner is just making a brief presentation to the board and the public i just wanted you to be aware of that
once she's finished we'll have the applications start okay thank you go ahead Lindsay um so there's six types of devariances we're only going to touch on the first two which are going to be um use related d1 is a use or principal
structure that is um not permitted in the zone that will always be the principal structure accessory structures do not fall um do not rise to a D1 um D2 is an expansion of an existing non-conforming use d3 is a deviation
from a specification or standard pertaining to conditional uses um if you look in your ordinance you'll see a conditional use typically has a number of items that it has to um it has to be apply to and if it doesn't meet that then it will end up being a D3 variance
d4 D5 and D6 are going to be related to the actual structure d4 is an increase in the permitted F or floor area ratio d5 is an increase in the permitted density um D5 it's important to note as well that that is not going to be
applicable to one and two families um sometimes you'll see dwelling units need to have x amount of square feet per acre um and if it doesn't meet that for a single family or a two family that is an increase in density but in the case of D variances it
doesn't rise to a D5 single family and two family are exempt um D6 is an increase in the permitted maximum height either by 10 feet or 10% of what is permitted so we'll jump right into D1 that's the zoning ordinance lists the
permitted principal uses in each zoning district typically that's kind of the first part of the uh zoning ordinance for a district an application involving an accessory structure that is not permitted will not rise to the level of a devariance and then for example if a doctor wishes to practice out of his
home which is located in a residential zone the zoning ordinance um prohibits businesses in the residential zone therefore that D1 use variance will be applicable in this case d2 is an expansion of an existing non-conforming use non-conforming is
defined by the MLUL um as law it could be something that was lawful prior to the adoption or revision or amendment of a zoning ordinance but it fails to form to the requirements of the uh zoning district in which it is located um so that could be something that maybe had
previously gotten um an approval from the board or in the instances of zoning amendments or revisions or a change in your uh zoning map cause it to now be an existing non-conforming condition so for an example a two family residential dwelling is located in a single family
residential zoning district that prohibits two family dwellings the applicant proposes in addition to that two family dwelling that is existing non-conforming um that will require a D2 use variance as they are enlarging the non-conforming use so Dvarianes require special reasons
um to be approved and that is kind of a legal term from the MLUL the applicant must satisfy the uh positive criteria required for a devariance um and the special reasons means the property is particularly suited for the proposed use and this can
be shown in three different ways um which I'll go into the next one so this is there won't be any mystery on that um the negative criteria must also be addressed and that is basically saying that you can approve this and it's not going to cause substantial detriment to the public good it's not going to impair
the intent of your zoning ordinance or your municipal master plan i recently had for example I recently had an um an application where somebody was proposing a three family in a zone that their master plan re-exam looked at
this zone district they decided that three families were causing too much density in that area so about five years ago when they did their re-exam they noted that that zone should be changed it should be amended they should no longer permit three families only one and two families um and then somebody
came forward to the board with a three-f family application that's an example of it no longer um being in line with the master plan or the intent of the zoning ordinance so the special reasons are the first one is going to be an inherently
beneficial you'll hear that probably thrown around quite a bit um and that is meant to be a use that is uh promoting the welfare of the community um and it's supposed to be universal value for the community so a hospital school daycare
um things like that um uses that provide jobs services products and recreation usually are not going to be deemed inherently beneficial so if somebody comes forward with an indoor turf facility for soccer that's not going to be considered an inherently beneficial use um because it's not actively helping
the entire community it's not universal um the next piece for a special reason is the site is particularly suited and the municipality will benefit by placing the building or use where it is proposed despite the local zoning uh prohibiting it a prerequisite is showing other locations in the surrounding area are
not suitable for the use so it has to be a reason that this specific lot is meant for this specific use even though the zoning doesn't allow for it um and finally is undue hardship so that's saying that if the property was to be used exactly conforming to the zoning
ordinance the applicant is going to suffer an undue hardship so seek a test i threw this one in there for you um so this is typically used with inherently beneficial uses um and there's four parts to it so you're
identifying the public interest at stake determining the benefits that are proposed um next you're going to identify any detrimental um effects next you consider the mitigation you explore ways to mitigate or reduce the identified detrimental effects through conditions or modifications and then
finally you balance and decide so you wait the uh you weigh the public interest against the potential negative impacts as mitigated so it's that balancing is it is allowing this going to be better than not allowing it um are the negatives um outweighing the
benefits so that's where the it's also sometimes called the balancing test and then we'll go into some case law medici is kind of the big one um and that is the Supreme Court upholding the showing of the positive criteria as sight specific um peculiarly fitted at
the particular location for which the variance is sought so as I said earlier that's one of the things that you have to identify is this use suited for this property um sometimes you'll see like in certain zones like an outlier lot that sometimes this can be applicable to um
the court concluded that the property for which a motel and restaurant were proposed was not particularly suitable for um the development and they thought this because it was located on a highway interchange and there were many other
areas on the highway interchange so um the other properties were then also near the interchange so how was this one so specific that that use should be permitted when there's multiple other sites right it doesn't have that uniqueness of this is particular for this specific block and lot block and
lot um so in determining this fact was insufficient to show it didn't show the particular suitability the court stated that um the development of the site in the community is particularly appropriate for that very enterprise so kind of really nailing in
that this was a highway interchange multiple properties could have had a motel and restaurant it wasn't just that property was not unique enough for that use so additional case law is uh funeral home management versus basilian um it's the appelllet division held that the
subject property was not particularly suitable for a funeral home because the board made no finding that a funeral home use was not available in other locations in the area or indeed that there was a community need for such use so that was the their professionals didn't come to the board with
information saying that this was the particular site for it that um they didn't prove that there weren't any other locations where it could be located um the the court found particular suitability exists where generally the use is one that would fill in a need of general community where
there's no other viable location and where the property itself is particularly well fitted for the use either in terms of its location topography or shape so that kind of once again going back to why a property could be particularly suited for a use do you guys have any questions thank
you for the presentation Lindsay usually we open the hearing to the public for comments and questions not on the agenda sure tonight but the public can just bear with us another five 10 minutes i'm going to open it to the public now since
our planning board chairwoman Joan Ferman is here tonight and Joan I think you were going to have a few questions or comments or not if so please come forward thank you everybody thank you Lindsay and thank you Ken for having the
foresight to you know be thinking about these things we face many of the same issues of course um and it does get very confusing at times but I just I I do have a question as I was listening and I'm sorry I walked in a little bit late for this but um the Medici is mostly
based on a conditional approval right like if it's a uh you have a permitted use a conditional use and prohibited use so if it's con that's conditional use what would be the difference if it's a prohibited use in terms of the negative
um aspects that have to be met do you have to meet all negative aspects yeah so you would have to prove that the that it's not going to be detrimental to your ordinance or your master plan right so I mean if if it's something that is
explicitly stated as prohibited and then for example um what I was saying earlier about the master plan re-examining identifying that the three families were too much density and they specifically said it in their re-exam and then amended their ordinance based on that re-exam that I think pretty clearly says
that they don't want it right so the from a planning standpoint if I was to take on that client I wouldn't because you know it very much says it in your planning documents that that's something that is not wanted so in the case of the negative criteria I think it would be
extremely difficult to prove that it's not going to cause a negative uh impact when your uh planning documents explicitly say that they do not want that use yeah i was just curious about the difference between the conditional and the prohibited yeah yes um Yeah so in
conditional the conditional use is slightly different right it's um it's permitted if you meet these conditions um so and if you don't meet those conditions then you still need that dev variance that D3 variance um and you still need to show that like you need to
still show the positive criteria and the negative criteria to why you can't meet those conditions yeah okay yeah yeah and I'd like to be able to do more with you know with each other as we go forward too because we do face we'll get applications that maybe you heard originally and then we get and vice
versa so it's just good to keep lines of communications open but thank you for having us thank you Chairwoman Ferman lindsay thank you too for your presentation and this board looks forward to working with you yes thank you i look forward to working with you as well good luck with
the assignments of the planning board master plan subcommittee and now this board yes I'll be busy i'll be spending some time here well I had one other question uh could you define undue hardship what's your name sir robert Otto robert Otto from the planning yeah
uh undue hardship you mentioned that is there a definition there is a definition i don't know the definition off this top of my head but yeah yeah if you don't know I'll get back to you thanks anyone else in the public okay that's it Lindsay all right thank
you thank you for coming tonight and everything you did to here tonight now for the public hearing we have the following applications 3-23 John Melli and Roco Fulo 513 Elmer block
320004 lots 234 and 5 are two seat variants and we have the application 423 John Melli Rocko 2-8 Elm Road block 320006 lots five six seven and 8 C
variance and then we'll have the application 15-24 Nancy Hopkins for C variance of relief block 28002 lot 12
so Johnelli uh Roco please come forward and this is a continuation from the hearing mr chairman how are you nice to see you again harold P cook the third here on
behalf of the applicants who are with us here sir as you probably are aware we'll let you complete your application before we open it to the board and to our planner fantastic thank you and the engineer was
sworn two months ago when we were here so do you want to resquare him or That's okay just want to confirm that your your license is still active and valid yes thank you as of this afternoon anyway and you continue to be under oath from
last time yes thank you all right uh we received the uh memo or letter from um Herald Pillow Associates and I'm going to have our engineer go through it
there's nothing in that letter that uh the applicant will not comply with and uh we'll address each item if the board requires and I think one of the uh issues I don't want to jump ahead but I want to get it out there one of the issues was who's going to maintain the
area of the road around the property and we propose that the applicant does that and we put in the a deed to run in perpetuity with the land that in the event the property is sold the successor in title assumes that responsibility
okay you'll have to have a microphone you can take the one from the stand over there sorry am I blocking the board or you guys could see the evening board or good evening um I'm just going to be very brief so we we
submitted revisal name is Giovani G I O V A N I last name Manilio M A N I L I O with Manta Design giovanni uh you made revisions to the
plans since the last time we were here you submitted those revisions to the board correct correct yep we submitted uh plans and a response letter back at the end of February of this year um I'll just go briefly on the changes to the to the plans which were minor in nature uh
so one of the the items that we revised um we heard loud and clear from the board and from the fire official um we changed the road which was gravel originally uh which is now going to be a full depth pavement uh cross-section so that's one of the changes that we're
proposing and that driveway will attach from uh both ends of um of the uh project um additionally we added a site triangle at the corner of Washington and Elm um and that's that's been added to
the plans um and I believe there was some other minor changes to the plans per the last review letter um and that's it as far as plan revisions i know we did receive two new um letters one for both um 2 to 8 Elmode and the other one
for five to eight u 5 to 13 Elm Road and I could go through them briefly or if you like i mean we went through all the comments and we have no issues um complying with all the comments in Mr simmons uh letter of April 1st 20125
uh Giovanni the one uh the one comment uh which I guess requires an answer rather than we will comply is uh maintenance responsibility of Elm Road in the area of the subject property must be established that's Yep that is correct um so the applicant did reach
out to the lake community um and to the uh association uh they had stated that the uh practice is that the maintenance is on the actual property uh so has to be followed with the deed and it it carries with the property and to any subsequent owners um so we'll agree to
that any other testimony we have nothing else okay we'll open it to our board engineer David if you're so kind yes sir Mr chairman uh the two reports are very similar i'll I'll go through the one of
uh April 1st 2025 for number 03-23 that's block 3204 blocks 23 4 and five at 5 to 13 Elm Drive page one of the report and the top is basically just a summary of the
revised information and previous information that we received under zoning uh basically uh there was discussion about the variances that are needed on this particular lot again the applicant provided background data on
front yard setback 50 feet required 20 feet proposed for variance rear yard setback 50 feet minimum required 31.9 ft uh or 28 feet to the rear steps by scaling variance required and the lot
area 25,000 square feet minimum required and what they were able to accumulate together is 19,000 square feet which requires a variance uh again a planning variance is required because it is a private road uh and I indicated that
under item 2D I recommend a deed be uh provided to consolidate the lots as called for on the variance map and with regards to maintenance and repair of Elm Road uh as the applicant indicated earlier this evening they were going to record a deed where the property owner
was responsible for maintaining repairing and what have you elm Road uh I believe that'll be on both sides of Elm Road uh because they basically have an application on both sides so presumably subject to the board council
uh addressing it differently that cost will probably be split 50/50 but that's the applicant's intent so it's uh memorialized in the county clerk's office in perpetuity so that anyone that purchases that property knows what their obligations are in
order to make sure emergency vehicles and what have you can get through there in accordance with the municipal land use law uh with regards to uh storm drainage uh they did call for on this particular lot as well as on the other
side of Elm Road uh dry wells for uh mitigating the increase in impervious coverage because of the uh driveway and the dwelling that's being proposed i just had a couple comments on there regarding the soil logs and permeability tests and also putting a solid cover on
the dry well so that it doesn't get overcharged from anything other than the intended drainage area of the roof and then on architectural plans will there be any HBAC unit and I believe that was negative there wasn't going to be uh No I believe the
testimony at the last meeting was that there will be AC units but it will be on the opposite side of the closest dwelling uh so stand corrected on that yeah and we'll show those on the revised plans so on both properties there's a a larger sideyard uh that's the one that will be
on not the one thank you uh soil erosion and sediment control plans they'll have to take care of that that'll be one of if the board acts favorably that'll be one of the permits they needed with regards to utilities uh they're proposing a new well to serve this dwelling plus the dwelling on the
other side of the road they're proposing a septic system again we'll have to get the permits for that and with regards to the aerial utilities uh they'll have to expend the cost necessary to bring those utilities down uh Elm Road in order to
be close enough for the utility companies to provide service for the dwellings that'll be up to them and their expense uh with regards to the Elm road plans uh the road plans on both sides of the road do in fact now reflect a 2-in patuminous
concrete surface course 4 in of puminous concrete stabilized base and 6 in of dense graded aggregate for a width of 20 ft and when they did receive the report back from the fire marshall uh fire department representatives uh 20 feet is
what they wanted for the minimum so that that is being satisfied and they're basically constructing it between Deerfield Road and Washington Drive which are also both paved roads so now when they go to get the snowplow and what have you and access they're coming off of a paved road
uh we talked about maintenance responsibility and an environmental impact statement was not submitted but they are addressing storm drainage and they are addressing uh the septic and the well which will go through the county health department and
as far as this particular lot goes they need the county health department approval for well and septic uh the fire department uh construction official obviously for the building and soil conservation through the Upper Delaware Conservation District i also recommend
that they have an ASB bill when the project's complete so we can verify that in fact they've complied with any variances that the board may approve and with regards to the road improvements in the utilities uh what my suggestion and
recommendation to the board is because this is presumably going to be sold other people uh it's important to have the roadway done and the utilities available so that they sell one lot to Mr mrs x and another lot on
the other side to Mr and Mrs y that in fact somebody's not stuck trying to do the road after the fact so what I'm recommending to the board is that before uh a building permit is issued that the roadway actually be constructed at least
up to the batuminous stabilized base and the utilities be extended to the point where they're ready for connection to the two homes and then before CO is issued for the homes that in fact the final wearing surface be constructed on the
roadway now that's the one side of the road uh board members looking at the report I did on April 1st 2025 uh for block 3206 lots 56 77 and 8 at 24 and 8 Elm Road uh for all intents and
purposes just highlighting the things that might be just a tad different again on page two with the zoning table on that particular lot and the applicant provided proofs on this at an earlier hearing front yard set back 50 ft minimum we're proposing 18.8 which needs
a variance rear yard set back 50 ft minimum 20 ft is proposed which needs a variance which is about 16 ft by scaling to the rear stairs and also the minimum lot width 125 ft is needed on Washington
Drive it's only 95.55 ft for a variance uh again the variances are basically the same the private road uh and they had required acquired as much property as they could with regards to the storm drainage the one thing different on this
that I suggested they again have provided uh dry well uh sizing calculations and dry wells for the additional impervious coverage for the dwelling and the driveway that they're putting on the lot but it doesn't include the impervious area because of
the roadway Elm Drive Elm Road excuse me so one of my suggestions was and the applicants engineer may have another alternative uh at the lower end of the subject property that we're talking about they might be able to since the road is all sloped that way cross slope
uh come off that road create a small easement at the lower end of the lot and make a rain garden type of affair to help mitigate the increase in runoff and then let it get back into the storm drainage system down on the lower street i don't know if you have any comments on that no no I think that's a good idea
all the water drains that way we have a swale we could definitely swell it onto the property into a some type of basin either set up an easement for that exactly yep and that property owner would be responsible in the deed for that easement for that drainage yeah and we'll work with Mr simmons on making
sure that complies and then with regards to the architectural plans we just discussed that as far as the HBAC units goes uh the soil ocean and sediment control plan that's shown on the plan again well and septic uh is going to be
taken care of through the county health department and again we talked about bringing the aerial utilities down the same roadway we're talking about Elm Road is the same road I just talked about a minute ago under the other application and again what my
recommendation is is for that road to be constructed at least up to the batuminous stabilized base and basically uh take that before there's a building permit issued and then prior to a co for a house the uh final wearing surface
being done the same basic permits are being required and as built and in both of the deeds for these properties usually what we recommend in other municipalities and subject to the board council I'd also suggest the recommendation that it be included
specifically a paragraph in the deed or a clause in the deed that the township of Sparta uh does not own or maintain these roads so there's no confusion or confusion or questions that may arise either either now or in the future with
a subsequent owner so they realize Sparta Township's not going to be plowing the roads please don't ask because it's going to be their responsibility if the board approves the application and those are my reports Mr chairman david thank you for the detailed reports on both applications
appreciate it Mr chairman uh the only comment that I would make uh based upon Mr simmons uh recommendations for the deeds is that the deeds both say that both property owners are jointly liable for the maintenance of the road so that can't point in either direction it's
your response it's your responsibility how they handle a payment is up to them but I want them to both be jointly responsible thank you is that there's no objection to any of these conditions thank you you could call on the board members
for their comments and questions please lon Tineri no questions right now michael Johnson no questions michael Leondi oh nothing else for me thanks richard Roarback Becker no
questions at this time this is the only time richard I know i know chairman Kenneth Larry not no questions landon now is everything Yeah okay with the fire situation when
we were covering all that at the last meeting no other questions okay now open the hearing to the public if anyone's in the public please come forward please give your name and address to the board secretary sir
Joseph Jones your name not 37 does he have to be sworn in if he's going back thank you if he's asking questions no if he's make uh if he's making a statement then yes
I guess you have a few questions and a statement uh well one general uh I guess today uh what was wait a minute has to swear you in okay very good you swear affirm that the testimony that you're about to give in this matter shall be the truth under penalties of perjury i do okay and
please restate your address i'm sorry joseph Jones 37 Washington Drive thank you so before I ask my my main question I heard you use the phrase uh what is the sight triangle at the corner of Elm and Washington
yeah so it's a almost as you call it almost like an easement uh so it's a a clear sight distance so any vehicles that turn there um there's a distance there so you can have visibility down the road okay so my main question is when you look at the current width of
Elm so I heard you say is 20 ft is what we're proposing in front of our So that means So that 20 ft will that expansion be on both sides equally from the middle of the road out not equally i think we try to center it as closely as possible
that road currently kind of jogs in and out no I mean when you It's going to be expanded correct okay how far on each side because my well cap is right up against that uh so there's let's see here on the west side
it expands a little bit more than it does on the east side so on the uh my property 37 how far do you think that's going to go because that's like I said my well cap is very close to Elm and I'll have to measure that tonight that's
37 Washington Drive so about the midpoint of Elm is where my well cap is on my side thank you yes so I I assume you're on this property to the
east i don't have the addresses i'm sorry okay so where is one here elm is here this is Washington okay so if this is Washington okay where's the end
so when you're coming up the hill you're making a right are you making Excuse me Joseph and you guys can use the microphone it's a requirement from the state of New Jersey that everything be recorded properly i'm just going to bring up I'm gonna bring up an aerial
um is exhibit A1 washington yeah so we're we're actually not expanding the road that way we're actually taking out some of that gravel okay so there'll be no impact to that no so if you It's harder to do with the
the distance so what will be on you speaking to the microphone oh sorry joseph if you want to take this microphone over there please so everything's recorded you can you can stay there all right go ahead so what side of Elm if you're going up Washington and make a left into Elm what
side is that so ement going the easement is on our side it's on our property all right like I said I had to ask is my well cap is probably 5T from Elm and if you expand that 20 you're doubling the width yeah so like I said on on the east
side on your side of the property we're actually removing some of that gravel that's where it kind of jogs towards your property and then back over yep when they piled it up and they put the steamroller where the big pile was it went on my property well past the road yeah yep so it should have no effect on
your side very good we're expanding on the the west side and then as we get further to the north and then it goes a little bit to the to the east but not much very good all right thank you you're welcome anyone else in the public have any questions or comments in regards to this application please come
forward seeing no one else in the public now back to this board any other comments or questions from board members or attorneys no david no sir thank you
all right mike the board will entertain please come forward to the microphone i was at the last meeting jessica Dagustinino not related to the store please give your name and address the
board secretary attorney will swear you in oh Jessica Dagustinino uh 12 Elm Road Sparter Lake you swear affirm testimony that your practice will shall be the truth under penalty to perjury i do thank you um I
was just wondering where um the septic for both properties is going to be in comparison to both Joe and my house is right next door as well are wells sure so they're shown on our plan so 2 and 8 Elm Road which is the property to the
west uh shown right there in the the box so on the opposite side of the house and the same with 5 to 13 Elm Road which is the east side of Elm Road is on the this side right here
uh Elm is here um Washington on this side i just know that my my well is very close to one of the properties so I wanted to make sure it wasn't damaged at all yeah and obviously any approval is
subject to the county approving the uh distances from Wells and Septic okay and how far is Elm Road going going to be paved from Washington to Deerfield or from uh for the most part from pavement to pavement where the pavement starts
and the pavement starts on at the end of the house both both of the homes or is it going to go past the whole road uh so it's going to pretty much be from Washington there's a driveway that comes off of um Washington uh so from there um to the driveway I I believe I guess
where your your dwelling is which is 12 L correct well we're not going to go past the the driveway okay so it'll just be the milling that was pressed down correct essentially okay thank you you're welcome anyone else in the public seeing no one else in the public it's
now back to this board chair will entertain a motion approving application 3-23 john Deli Rockaso 5-13 Elm Road block 320004 lots 2 34 and five are
to for C variance relief sure mr chairman I'll I'll take a stab at this um I'll I'll make a motion to have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application uh number 3-23 as well as
4-23 for John Miselli and Rocka Chafulo uh block 320004 lots 234 and five at 5 through13 Elm Street as well as block 320006 lot 5678 at 2 through eight Elm
Street seeking C variances for um for the for the combined lots on block 320004 a front yard setback of 20 ft where a 50 foot minimum is required a rear yard setback of 31.9 ft where 50 foot minimum is required and a lot area
of 19,000 where 25,000 a minimum is required uh for combined lots on block 320006 we have a front yard setback of 18.8 ft where 50 foot minimum is required uh a rear yard setback of 20 feet where
17.2 feet to the stairs and a 50 foot minimum I'm sorry or 20 feet uh where 50 foot minimum is required i have a note left from January sorry um and a minimum lot width of 95.55 ft
um at Washington Drive where 125 foot minimum is required uh we've got some conditions the applicant uh will maintain both sides of Elm Road in a 50/50 joint responsibility between the two assemblages with that responsibility
running uh with success or entitle no we're doing that as a joint resp joint responsibility not 50/50 sorry joint responsibility between 5050 is between them as to who pays for what right right sorry about that um uh the roadway will be constructed and
extended to the driveway connection points prior to building permit issuance that'll be the the base course and then prior to a co being issued we'll put the final wearing course uh in place sparta Township won't take any responsibility or ownership for
Elmro um you'll work with Mr simmons on a drainage swale and rain garden easement and you'll adhere to the balance of the stipulations laid out in in Mr simmons's report uh that's based on all plans specs testimony presented here tonight as well as the previous meeting at
January 8th of 2025 and I believe there was something with the utilities too David right besides the road I've got some notes from last time i I maybe some of these have been addressed but we're going to bring utilities to subject properties as required um talked about the roadway got
the letter from the fire department right uh planning variance for Elm Road uh lake association we talked about that site triangle we talked about that all required deed updates for lot
assemblages uh and we talked about obtaining the county health department approvals verifying septic system locations and appropriate setbacks for local water wells and of course as belt drawings lewis that's all I had you have anything else to add to that was everything
covered or not i believe so yes covered yes and then also the motion is for the you were doing both applications i did have both so let me just for the record also application 4-23 for C variance relief does the chair have a second
second any discussion marissa please call the role elena Tineri yes michael Dosk yes michael Leondi no
richard Roarbacker yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes uh your application's been approved congratulations thank you for all your submitts in regards to the application thank you for your courtesies you're welcome
good night application 15-24 nancy Hopkins block 28002 lot 12 C Vance Relief please come forward they're new nice right yeah thanks for
Thanks for noticing good evening ladies and gentlemen daniel Benondorf from the law firm of Aaskin and Hooker located in Sparta representing Nancy Hodkins uh if we could maybe have everybody sworn in um and qualified as an expert uh just to start so that we can move right through
uh testimony sure nancy if you'll please stand up come up to the microphone and you're in architect engineer yep uh do you swear affirm that testimony that you're about to give in this matter should be the truth under penalties of
perjury i do right first uh come state your name and address please nancy Hodkins 7043 Broadway Street Indianapolis Indiana jeffrey Hower Hower Engineering 11:41
Green Lake Turnpike Ringwood New Jersey thank you okay oh do you swear affirm that testimony that you're about to give in this matter truth under penalty perjury i do please state your name and give us your address
frank Coulter C O U L T E R Blueprint Engineering 196 West Ashlin Street Doylestown Pennsylvania 1890 thank you please mr sure
uh earned my bachelor of engineering degree from Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken in 2003 i'm licensed in New York Pennsylvania Maryland and New Jersey been licensed here in New Jersey since 2008 worked for several firms before starting Houser
Engineering in 2009 i've appeared before numerous um boards throughout Northern New Jersey though surprisingly though I work in town quite often this is my first appearance in front of this board and is your license current it is and valid yes thank you active is the word I
guess yes any questions from this board okay i earned uh my bachelor from Drexel University in architectural engineering back in 19 gosh 96 um I'm a been a licensed architect in New Jersey since
2006 i'm a professional engineer in New Jersey Pennsylvania New York 23 different states um I've been practicing uh architect architecture and engineering for approximately 25 years i've testified in uh multiple states
including New Jersey um I have been in front of this board but not as a professional is your license active yes my license is active in New Jersey both of both of them the engineer and architect thank you all right any questions from the board
thank you mr before you spend do you have personal knowledge of the property i I do as well i I have a a home on Hawthorne uh Lake as well all right how can we help you okay um so the property we're here to discuss tonight is 26 Hawthorne Lake Road block
82002 lot 12 it's a 431.4 acre lot in the RR zone uh it's currently developed with 29 homes um when I first saw this application I was a bit perplexed it was kind of odd to me it was something I had never seen before
um so the subject lot is uh or the subject home is one of 29 homes uh that uh the last one of those homes was built in the 80s this one that we're here to discuss tonight was built in the 30s um and my client will provide testimony to
that um and uh most recently back in 2022 2023 one of the homes was uh demolished down to the foundation and then rebuilt um and I I I reference these things for the purpose of historical uh uh knowledge um the Lake
Hawthorne Park Club was established in 1895 um and essentially what it is is is like I said a over 400 acre lot uh where there were 29 homes built on that lot
and each one of the members owns a a portion of the property itself and some of those members also own a home located on that one lot um this evening we're
here to discuss two C variances one is for the front yard must face uh an improved street um Hawthorne Lake community primarily sits on an unimproved street uh that services the community um and then no lot may um
contain more than one principal structure again a C variance that we're asking for specifically with respect to this home the applicant is before the board this evening because she'd like to put a 305 square foot addition on the
home our architecture will testify to that um one of the main reasons is because uh there's currently not a full bathroom in the home and the applicant has to walk out of the house around the side of the house down into the basement
where there is a dirt floor so that she can take a shower as a result of that she is done she doesn't want to do that anymore um and so she's here before the board this evening requesting these variances so that she can improve the home um so without further uh actually uh Nancy you want to stand up for a
second come up to the microphone sure uh you you've heard what I said this evening is that an accurate representation of the circumstances warranting us being here tonight yes okay do you have any questions or changes to my testimony no well your testimony but no my recantation no okay
thank you very much yes uh Mr hower if you want to discuss the law sure uh council did a good job describing uh the the property as a whole uh over 400 acres um it's within the center of it lies Horththornne Lake itself um the
property is accessed from the north and this particular dwelling number 26 sits about a mile and a half into the into the property it is a gravel road it is a seasonal community uh I this I've done several projects in here mostly septic replacement projects um so I know in the
winter time this community is essentially shut down the gate is closed and there is no access to it but uh around this time of year is when when it opens up um this property is served by a septic and well the septic system was
just replaced several years ago when we designed it it's a modern system with advanced treatment and a pure flow system uh the proposed 305 square foot addition uh which essentially is going to increase the footprint of the house by 50% from a uh a modest 662 square ft
up to 955 square ft the addition is to the southeast of the existing structure currently there is a a deck in that location that the deck that the addition will be uh built in place of and then a new 171 square foot deck will be to the
souththeast of the new addition um from a from a bulk perspective being 400 acres we don't have any issues with setbacks with uh lot lot area lot width lot frontage front yard setbacks sideyard setbacks rear yard setbacks or
hundreds of feet away from the actual property line um the uh from an impervious coverage standpoint we're only increasing the impervious coverage by 112 square ft in total um so it's a a
modest increase um nowadays anytime uh we are working on a property that is essentially within 300 ft of a water body we always take a look at potential NJD regulations uh they do come into play here uh we did check uh the geo web
there are no freshwater wetlands in the immediate vicinity that we feel would impact this project however um Horththorn Lake itself is just to the northeast of our of our dwelling uh but projects like this uh qualify for something called a permit by rule
because we don't exceed certain thresholds so specifically with the addition uh because this addition is more than 25 ft away from the edge of the water body because it's less than 400 square ft because we're not below
the flood hazard elevation it is el eligible for what's called a permit by rule number 12 um and then the second permit board rule is has to do with the deck uh those same criteria were not within 25 ft of the top of bank of of the lake um and we're not within the
with the flood hazard below the flood hazard elevation so those are essentially a permit by rule is essentially an exemption of sorts you just state the fact we don't have to apply to anything from the state it's just a known fact so we have that information on the plan and detailed it
uh we're also in the Highlands Preservation Area um as a very modest addition here we believe we're eligible for exemption number five which we would apply for assuming uh we were fortunate enough to get approval here this evening
um in terms of the there are no proposed improvements to the driveway or to the to the walkways or anything of that magnitude it's strictly the addition to the southeast um we are we are proposing a silt fence during construction to try to protect
the lake um we are not disturbing over 5,000 square feet so it doesn't warrant soil conservation district but we will implement uh soil erosion and sediment control measures um during construction um that's
all but that's uh that's all I have in terms of an overview if anybody has any questions I can move forward with the architect you know testimony and then we can have questions or after you completed the application okay so you can
go seats that's the same that you submitted to the board right yes mr do you have any plans or were they also I I do have plans and I apologize i've been traveling um I have two copies they are infantestimally small i kind of
brought them for my own edification but if the board would like to see them you certainly may have they been submitted already they have been submitted they have been submitted with the application okay but they haven't been changed since then no they have not
so be uh being a a fellow homeowner uh in on Hawthorne Lake and Nancy knowing that I was both an architect and engineer she came to me and uh proposed uh improving her home to to uh basically give her proper uh facilities on on the
living level um also she has her laundry her laundry facilities are also down in the dirt basement so we came up with the uh with the plan um since the dawn of COVID obviously many people work from home her her adult son and daughter uh
both uh have that capability so she was interested in in adding a home office where they would be able to come you know during the summer and work from there and then improve the home by adding the laundry facilities upstairs as well as excuse me uh a full bath so
that's that's basically what we came up with with the small addition the 305 square feet will contain a small hallway with an entry door uh a long a little laundry area of the full bath and then a home office and the the addition will
not be used as a bedroom or anything of the type as far as I know no that is is a home office the intent is the intent is to be a home office do you have architectural plans with with that sir i
do there are two I did bring two copies and again I said I apologize that they are so small if they were submitted with the application though did everyone get the the plans and the applications I just want to identify the uh the
um date on those 5 latest revision okay you want the full copy looks like Richard has it i have a pair I have a pair of readers if anyone needs them
i don't want to get too Yeah I was traveling i was like I'll go back to my That one's on me not on Nancy the small plan yeah you have the 11 by 17 you want to
go grab the explanation yes uh as I said it's a 305 foot addition uh the on the lake side of the home that's where the home office will be um it'll be separated by a small entry hallway with a co- closet um being built in the early
1930s the the home is does not have many closets to you know put anything in quite honestly uh and then on the other side of the hallway there's a small laundry facility that'll have a a stacked washer and dryer excuse me what page was uh was that feeling a I think
it's A100 j1 I A1 A1 Absolutely um as I said there there'll be a small uh you know stacked washer and dryer uh laundry closet and then on the back on the back side of that will
be the um standup shower um water closet and lavatory in the bathroom good question where where's the bedroom there is no bedroom no bedroom no bedroom home office where's the existing bedroom oh that
they're in the the existing home the the existing home is um is two stories there's there three bedrooms upstairs oh here yeah sorry that only shows the addition it doesn't show the the full home there's going to be no uh adjustment of any walls or anything on the second
floor no no this is strictly a single story edition i have another plan if anybody like I brought one more thing oh we're good Marissa thank you you want it you need it where are you going to be putting the
deck i don't see plans we did not uh at the time that I did these the deck was not included so I do not have plans for the deck at this time what they what do the expected deck look like uh it's it should be it's going to
be located on the lakeside of the home and will extend out from the from the home office what is the square footage of that i believe it's 170 the new essentially you want to come up to come to the
microphone please um the new deck will be essentially the size of the current deck it's just pushed out a little bit the front deck side side deck the front of the house is where the home
office is or the the whole thing is going to be on the side of the house maybe you could explain a little bit better we're not architects you have to explain what's on these plans so this this is the proposed addition in
the dark gray home office located here small hallway passing through bathroom located on the back back corner and then the proposed deck will be to the side and where's the road the road is
Maybe when we get to David's report a little bit are you ready Mr chairman no not when we get the lake the lake is down here lake is south of north of the home
office northeast of the home office excuse us materials i believe be composite wood composite the exact I do not have the exact width and depth japanese i think it's important
to not be covered correct no no thank you so any other testimony to be submitted not at this time you have any other comments you'd like to add um I I would like a shower i have
a toilet and a sink in my house i would like a shower in the house um my kids live in Switzerland and Cambodia uh respectively and they can come to the lake uh which I use three months out of the year for a couple
weeks and they can work from home but my daughter has a one and a two-year-old and they need an office to do that so I'm trying to provide that it's pretty much it okay thank you you're welcome i will open it to our board engineer David please with your
report certainly Mr chairman uh for the record referring to the report we prepared dated April 1st 2025 as the applicant indicated they're basically doing the addition for an office deck and a bathroom going on to page two uh we are in the R our rural
residential zone and as Mr hower pointed out earlier we're on basically a 449 plus acre parcel of land so I agree with his own table that we're not near any property lines so setbacks and what have you aren't an issue there because
basically as I understand the development created many over a hundred years ago uh it's basically on one piece of property not separate individual lots uh with regards to access again this is
one of those locations where you have to go someplace you can't get there from here if you will i actually had to go to Augsburg up Edison Road and then in about a mile and a half to in the gravel driveway to get to the subject property uh they are cutting down uh there are
some existing dwellings as they pointed out uh again the proposed disturbance is less than 5,000 square ft but I do recommend because of the steepness of the lot and the close relative close proximity to Hawthorne Lake that they
implement the soil er implement the soil erosion and sediment controls and on Mr hower's plan he does show a sill fence circumscribing the active area of the subject property so I believe that's appropriate in this particular case uh probably the biggest thing I'm concerned
about on this is the access to the property and how it's handled on a year- round basis uh again I literally when I left Edison Road and came into the subject property it's about a mile and a half and it's basically a gravel driveway uh that varies in width
primarily based on what I saw one vehicle wide so when we get to the end of my report I'd like to hear some more testimony if it's all right with the board just how when the community is open who's responsible for maintenance again just worrying about emergency
vehicles getting to the subject property god forbid if there was ever an emergency situation that should arise uh I believe they do have to go to the highlands and hopefully will qualify for an exemption uh with regards to the well
and the septic uh again Mr hower's firm did the uh updated septic system i saw that when I was out there at the site and there's no new bedrooms being added and as the board chairman said the porch is not going to be enclosed so there shouldn't be any additional bedrooms or
anything added on to that that would adversely impact the capacity of the septic system there's electric to the site with regards to storm drainage Sparta Township does have their ordinance that if you're increasing the impervious by more than 500 square feet
you're supposed to provide mitigation but in this case between the deck and the addition you're at about 449 square feet plus you're right there by the lake so mitigation isn't required by the ordinance in this particular case uh there's no new bedrooms being added i
did point out that one other improvement under the crawl space the architectural plans call for a concrete slab a rat slab to be poured under the house so that's a good improvement and my understanding and the applicant can confirm that there's no plans to utilize
that crawl space other than for storage and access to the bottom of the house should it be necessary uh there was no EIS provided for the application but again there was a plan that was submitted to the county health department to get the permits to upgrade
the septic system on the subject property and I reviewed with our wetlands person in our office the permit by rules that are noted on Mr hower's plan and we generally agree with them in this particular case because of the proximity away from Hawthorne Lake i
noted some of the approvals that would be required the county health department just to verify the well and septic capacity for what they're doing to keep their records up to date obviously building permits from the township construction department you've received a report from the fire department uh
with regards to D the permit by rules and the Highlands Council and as we do with most recommendations for most applications suggests that a asbuilt plan be provided upon completion of the project assuming the board grants favorable approval on it but the biggest
thing having said all that the applicants covered most of my points the biggest thing I'd suggest the board hear more testimony on is the access to the site when it shut down for the winter or just how that operates in this facility because of uh being able to get
emergency vehicles god forbid if there was an emergency sure David what did you think about the fire prevention report from fire department here in town ba basically I think the fire department realized is that as was testified here
tonight for the first time that I heard I guess this was built uh established around 1895 I heard that date so we've been doing this for over a hundred years 130 years roughly uh and he realized that it's an existing situation with 20
some odd homes uh I won't say that geometrically there's it's not it's possible for a fire truck or emergency vehicle to maneuver around the corners and what have you uh and I did not see any areas of the existing gravel
driveway uh that were soft if you will that would not support the weight of a of an emergency vehicle again the concern I have is uh and I don't know as he brought it up or not in his report what about the wintertime is it plowed is is snow removal ice and snow removal
just so emergency vehicles can get in or is it in fact shut down for the wintertime and no one comes to the area so that becomes a moot point that's what we I think the board needs to hear about any other concerns of our board engineer if you can address them please yeah this
evening we have the vice president of the club here to discuss exactly that hi Stephen Garcia s T E P H N G A R C I A 21
Burn New Jersey and have a house at currently the vice president hey David can you move that microphone a little closer to the gentleman thank you is that better yes do you swear affirm the testimony that you're
about to give in this manship of the truth under penalties perjury yes thank you so why don't you talk about what happens in the winter time with respect to the community sure so in in the winter time we uh we close the gate there are there
are two residents who live at uh Hawthorne Park Club year round but the remaining uh 27 other houses are largely unoccupied um so there's really very little activity at all up there between
you know September and May um over the course of the year if if there is a snowtorm so there's uh DVS plowing plows our roads when there's a snowstorm so we have them on contract they've done that
work for us since before I was treasurer um so for the last you know 15 or so years um and and they'll they plow for for every storm we have so regardless of the fact that the majority of the homes are closed they're still the roads are still maintained and open during the
winter um the the plowing is goes about halfway around the lake so we don't plow the full distance around the lake only to where the homes are occupied where the homes are over the course of the winter yes um and what about the maintenance of the
road itself who's responsible for that and how often is the road how do you determine that the roads are there so um we have a we have a committee made up of members and and volunteers um that
is responsible for maintaining the road uh the club makes periodic road improvements uh we assess members um for those road improvements and work uh with local contractors to you know anything that we can't handle oursel with our own
tractor we um uh contract for that work to be done um we have had the Sparta Fire Department has been up there before on those roads with their their big truck um you know uh pumping water from the lake um um that's certainly happened
in the last you know eight or so years um and we do have uh you know we're a tree farm so we have to have really large timber trucks up there um that use the use the full road um they're I don't I don't know their weight relative to a
uh uh a firet truck but they're you know very big and loaded with you know large trees okay thank you for that testimony sir if you're so kind could you have Mr garcia look at this for a few
seconds maybe he would address those you want to identify what it is the uh fire report from Okay thank you mr maybe you could address each one of those sir sure so um so I I I've not seen this before today so um
we just got it today so take your time to review it um okay so I'm I'm I'm not familiar with the width of the road at all at all locations um I' I'd have to you know I'd have to go and and check that that's um
certainly you know two cars can um pass each other on the road i mean that that's a frequent occurrence um so uh I'd have to check and see though exactly how many feet it is at various points so um so that's in reference to the first
bullet but I I do know it's at least two cars wide um I'm I'm not sure about the imposed loads from the fire trucks to bold point number two i don't know exactly what that um um you know those loads would be
again we do have the the timber trucks up there which are as big as uh as as a fire truck and loaded with uh you know really large uh trees and when we when we've done the septic systems up there
you know we have big back hose and gravel trucks you know that are are bringing gravel in so I'd have to think that the roads are capable of of supporting those those loads um uh if if the board look kindly upon the
application this evening would you be open to the possibility of a fire truck coming up there to make sure that they can access all areas of the community yeah um and that the roads are supportive of the weight of the fire trucks yeah i mean absolutely i think I think it's in the members interest that
the fire trucks can access and in the event that there there was an issue found would you would you maintain the road or correct that issue on the road uh to accommodate the fire truck um so so it would it would require a a vote of the membership but I feel confident that
the membership would vote in favor of ensuring that you know emergency vehicles of all types can reach whatever house needs those services you know as quickly as possible attorney I don't know that we can compel the the
association to do anything uh I think that maybe what you can do is condition any uh condition the approval upon the fire department being satisfied as to the access and leave it up if fire department is not satisfied and they
don't make the the association doesn't make the improvements then the applicant can't move forward with her with her addition i I think that's acceptable to my client absolutely it's it's for the benefit of all that's acceptable Nancy thank you Mr garcia sure david now you
had some comments on their responses to uh my understanding Mr chairman is that for the most part uh the roadways are not going to be open in the wintertime uh with the exception of a couple of houses and access in the
wintertime to those two houses would be provided by a contractor who would be pro some snow plowing and sanding and salting the road for them to get emergency access my wait I then I understood it differently than you did didn't I thought they was said that the
roads are plowed up until the lake to so there's access to all the houses it's it's the two homes um I think the testimony was that there there are two homes that are year round and it's plowed up to access of those two homes not the remaining homes that are not
accessed that's that's the correct yeah that's correct it's becomes an issue with the if there's an emergency fire emergency or something at one of the other homes separate from the homes that are
occupied like the unoccupied home there's a fire you know what is that going to do the fire department can't get there so I I might need to talk to my client about that uh that might be something that uh they have to take back to their board as well all right well I I I don't
mean to speak for the board uh and I know your client came in from out of town and it's a major travel for her uh but you know what the board may what the board may want to consider is finishing all the testimony
tonight and not taking action tonight uh and allowing the the applicant through her attorneys and her professionals to investigate this further and come back to a a a subsequent meeting to uh to address these issues i agree with you Mr
karp it's up to the board but I just uh I just I do just want to point out that the last paragraph in the fire department's letter uh where it where it notes in bold print that the following are only recommendations and should not be a deciding factor in the approval or
denial of the application their words um I just want to make note of that in case it wasn't clear for everybody thank you because if if we're going to punt to the fire department to investigate and make it a condition of approval I I think that puts them in a position they are sort of outlining here they don't want
to be in something they might have to get involved with since it could something could happen up there and I think you understand yeah can I have a moment to speak with my client just
There's no way that sharp It is not mention the amount of All right sounded like she does everything all right sorry for the delay thank you for your accommodation um so yeah we'll we'll have to go to the board uh to discuss the matter in further detail and
we'll have to uh talk to the fire marshall again about this um we were hoping not to have to uh plow to the end of the road because nobody's living in those homes but uh we'll talk to the board we'll talk to the fire marshall and see what he says that would be great
okay and then your applicant will not have to come back our attorney if you want to explain that one more time to the public yeah what what we're to we understand that the applicant is coming in from out of town and it's a major undertaking so what what I had said uh
what board what we're suggest what I'm suggesting is that you finish the testimonies particularly if your client will open to the public tonight uh so that she doesn't necessarily have to come back but you bring the professionals back who who are more local uh with whatever you have at the next meeting we'll carry it to the next
meeting without notice and if you're not ready for the next meeting we can continue to carry it I suppose to subsequent meetings let me just let me just finish then then you and and uh then they can vote at that the board can vote at that time to
give you the chance to work this out because u to me it's it's it's a concern just if the fire department if a house burns down the fire starts in a house and it could be because of electrical you know short or something like that I
don't know how it's how it's heated or well it has to be heated I guess for the water unless you have uh yeah I think they're shut down they are shut down the pipes are are cleared and they're closed for the winter but electricity turned off also i I I assume at the breaker box
but but I can I I'll find all those answers out yeah and and I mean if you're 200 300 400 feet away from the next house and and there's testimony that that it can cause a problem then that may be a factor also you know when
you're on 60 foot lots and the houses are so close to each other fire is a is a concern yep we'll we'll we'll we'll deal with it okay we understand the issue um is there are there any other questions for our experts your applicant answer you want to say something or not
say that um there's no HVAC in any of the homes around me all the um pipes are drained and the power is turned off so is the power still in the in the line the overhead lines i'm sure yeah so that's you know you know get a squirrel
up there that's that start something causes embers to fly and starts the house on fire you know things like that okay you know I and it's more Yeah i don't Yeah i don't I don't want to get off let's let let's just we'll we'll kick it down the road and we'll take care of it at at the next meeting i
think I'll have a better uh handle on it we only got the report today so understood marissa when's the next meeting in May please uh May 14th may 14th so you're okay for the application to be carried to May 14th that's okay i I think that we'll be able to clear up
the uh experts testimony this evening unless uh Mr hower might need to come back for engineering purposes regarding the fire but other than that we won't need the architect right well um what I'm again I'm not talking for the board but uh you may want to bring it back
with with a plan to show the deck that's not on the existing plans sure and that will certainly make it easier for the board to to to I I can tell you I will not be available
on the 14th be on a boat in Good for you you do you want them to does the board want them to add the uh deck to show the plans right David yes yes okay okay do you want to carry this to June then if
if you need me here I mean I will submit the I will submit plans for the deck a revised revised plan but if I if you feel that I'm going to need testimony I'm not going to be able to intervene what do you think of that do it right yeah our our engineer can go over the
plans the deck plans good yes make carry so why why don't we finish the testimony tonight especially for for for Mr uh Colton and for for Mrs ms uh Hodkins uh and let the public ask
any questions and then then you know if if you if unless there's anything else that Mr asking wants to add um we can you can journ'll carry it to the meeting of May 14th without further notice i think everything was covered tonight for
the time being yes all right anything else all right i think the board should ask questions and open it to the public i said the board have any other questions or I think you were all okay right i have some question oh you Marissa if you can call on the board
members please sure elon Tererry um no question in particular about the actual proposal the plan just on the concept of when you guys come back um I don't know the protocol maybe this is just a general question but when we're dealing with
municipalities that are nearby and could have to use their services what's the protocol for maybe getting a report from a neighboring municipality as well it should be covered oh go ahead yeah no that's a great question because Ogdensburg has been the ones to respond
to any uh emergency calls so what I'll do with that question because I think it's very valid I will go to Ogdensburg and I will confirm as well thank you sir y that's all I have michael Jac yeah so again on the whole fire safety um
situation so you're saying Ogdensburg is the department that responds uh sometimes yes most recently Ogdensburg were the ones that responded and if it is sparted do you know I mean I don't know do do they have like a plan or like um you know from what direction they approached the prop I mean the Hawthorne
Lake because I know if you come from I I don't know the direction but from the top of Edison road I mean from a fire truck coming from the station on Glenn going down Ed I mean you're talking the amount of time and then once you get to the Hawthorne Lake to make that left turn I can't imagine how it does that um
So that's why I was curious as to is it Ogdensburg and they're the ones primarily responsible so I I'll contact both fire departments and maybe I'll be able to meet them out there that we can you know look at the circumstances and and further discuss it okay yeah thank
you Michael Leandi nothing else for me thank you Mr roar Backer no questions at this time chairman Kenneth Larry no questions marissa okay i'll now open it to the public anyone
has any comments or questions please come forward now close to the public and back to the board and as we are doing and applications being carried to the May meeting without any further notice
okay gentlemen yes thank you very much everyone really appreciate it you're welcome the board will entertain a motion to adjurnn so move second please second all in favor i thank you
David thank you for your reports tonight and everything mr chairman and board members I'd just like to thank you for the new table