--------- Great. Yeah, exactly. That's perfect. Let me just open my drive. Um, okay. Are we on? Okay. Excellent. Uh, let's see. Good evening everyone. This is the Township of Springfield Board of
Adjustment meeting for August 19, 2025. The time is 6:09 and we are going to call this meeting to order. Adequate notice is given in accordance with the Sunshine Law. notice was published on January 2nd in the local source, one of the official newspapers of the township
of Springfield for the year 2024 and the year 2025. And it has been posted in the annex building on January 2nd, 2025. Can we please stand to salute the flag? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. We have a roll call, please. Mr. Steven Hawkstein, present. Mr. Michael Wex, here. Mr. Steven Persinbound, present. M. Marlon Apparano,
here. Mr. Mr. Peter Shewitz here, Miss Anica Dodson here, Mr. Randy Pearlman here, vice chair Mark Cunningham, and chairwoman Jodie Cowen here. We have a quum. Thank you. Uh, okay. The first order of
business is going to be the adoption of the minutes. Um, has everyone had an opportunity to review the minutes from May 2025? Are there any questions or comments? If there are none, is there a motion to approve? I'll make the motion.
Thank you. All in favor? I I. Anybody oppose? Motion passes. And the minutes from June 2025. Has any board members have any questions or comments on the minutes from June? If
not, is there a motion to approve? I'll move it. Okay. All in favor? I. Any extensions or objections? No. Motion passes. Thank you. All right. Next order of business's resolutions to be memorialized. The first resolution is
for application 2025-16. This is for 45 South Springfield Avenue, block 1402, lot six. This was a request for preliminary and final site plan. Um, a use variance and minor subdivision approval. Has every board member had an opportunity to review the resolution?
Are there any comments, questions? If there are none, is there a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve. Miss Dodson, yes. M Mr. Hawkstein, yes. Mr. Wex, Mr. Ferg,
yes. Mr. Sheitz, yes. Uh, Mr. Crowman, yes. And Cher, yes. Motion passes. The next resolution on to be memorializes application 2025-14. This is for 564 Ashwood Avenue, block
25501, lot 12. Approval of a lot coverage um variance for a patio. Has every board member had an opportunity to review the resolution? Are there any comments, questions? If there are none, is there a motion? I'll move second.
Mr. Hawking? Yes. Mr. Wex? Yes. Mr. Fenbound? Yes. Mr. Napano? Yes. Mr. Sheitz? Yes. Dodson? Yes. Mr. Chair Cohen. Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Okay. Moving on to the applications this evening. The first
application that we're going to call is application 2025-10 Bernardet Court block 3 block 3201 lot 18. This is a request for building structure and lot coverage for a pool and pergola.
Come on up. Good evening. Will you be the only one testifying this evening? Yes. Okay, great. I mean, maybe my husband, I don't know. Is Will he be speaking at all? No. No, I'm not. Just me. Okay, great. All right, we're just going to swear you in. Please raise your right hand. Do you
swear or affirm to tell the truth? Yes. Please state your full name, spell your last name, give us your home address. Uh, my name is Kate Fox, last name is FOX, and I live at 10 Bernardet Court in Springfield.
Okay. Good evening, Miss Fox. Um, why don't you tell us a little bit about your application, what you're looking to do on your property, and the reasons for doing so. Sure. So, we are looking to build a pergola to fully enclose our pool. Um, I'm from Hawaii, and swimming is a big
part of my culture and life. And now that we have a toddler, um, I want to make sure that he has one, access to a pool, but only fully supervised. This way we have a fully locked door uh and no child can get in and also that uh
I'll be able to swim without apparently in New Jersey you can't swim all year and so having a pool for only three months out of the year made less sense to me and this was one way we could deal with it without having too much debris and wildlife in harm's way.
Thank you. Uh okay members of the board do we have any questions for the applicant? Can you talk about what variances you need? Um, so one is for the roof coverage, um, lot coverage and,
uh, proximity to the house, I believe, was the other one. Um, should I expand We understand what variances are but usually people explain why you know
they what is the reason they are um reasons they want the variance and how it is not a detriment to so um we made sure that the roof would be slanted so that draining wouldn't be an issue um and then none of it's
visible from the street and none of it would impact any neighbors or views or anything like that what are you doing to accommodate all the water that's coming off of the roof? We have a drainage system where it would angle into. You don't have a pool.
We do have a pool. Yeah, we just moved um in November of this past year. So, that's it. Yeah. Is there any heat to this pergola? The pergola wouldn't have heat. No. Would the pool have heat? Yes, the pool is heated.
Where does you said that the uh slant from the pergollet covers all the water, but eventually the water hits the ground, does it? Yeah. Where does the water go when it hits the ground? Um, it's angled to I remember.
Why don't Why don't we have your husband come up, swear him in, then he can testify. Okay. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? Yes. State your full name. spell your last name. Uh Derek Lou, L I EU.
Thank you. Go ahead. Um so on the side of the house there's uh like a gutter that uh collects rain water and that drains into the creek behind the house. The
pergola is also fully retractable. So um we can open it and the water won't always won't always be collecting. Okay. So, I understand the lot coverage and the building coverage, but the proximity to the house is it by putting
an accessory structure is that and and the distance is that really the relief? So, what how far Any other questions? Is the pergola structure physically touching the house or is there a separate?
It is separate. I think I think that ordinance is rooted in structure catches on fire. They wanted a separation. the principal structure. This is a glass
glass and aluminum mostly aluminum. Mike, just for for the record, what what does the ordinance require? The distances requires a separation. I'd have to look it up. I think it's 15 10 or 15. 10 feet, I believe, I was told.
limits the number. I don't think it limits the size in this case. No more than two. There's a deck around the pool. There's a concrete around the pool. And then you have a fence structure around your home.
Correct. So Bruce 35- 15.5B discusses us. So separation is 10 ft more than two accessory doesn't limit the size only
the height. How tall is the structure going to be? It's going to be 11 ft sloping to 8 and 12. still confused. Do you have a water management system? Are you just draining it off the property? Are you
there? It's inside the ground next to the house is a a gutter where the rainwater collects into and then that is connected to a pipe that goes to the creek behind their house. That an acceptable water management
system. So if the if the If this structure is closed, the pool which is not counted as a lot coverage now of course the new roof structure counts. That's why the building coverage goes up.
Theoretically in the closed position the runoff is going to be increased mitigation. So, have they provided any kind of water that we've got to almost? Do you have a water mitigation plan
besides the drainage you currently have? Um, we're working with a contractor to discuss options. If we need to, we can, but I don't think you don't have formal plans in place. And then this is a separate question,
but you said the pool is heated, but the structure around it is not. You still plan on utilizing it in that off season, but it'll be warm enough. Just don't get out. Yeah, you live in there.
On the left side of the house, that's all pavers. Is that uh Yes. Yeah. My my my concern is the water runoff going into was it a brook in the back of your house?
What does the EPA say? Anything about the water runoff going into that brook? Well, again, the from a local perspective, the covering is going to increase
You lose the depth of the water to the top of the coping as a builtin bathtub drainage. So we would we would anything over 200 square feet we would require.
You understand what that is? means a additional a system so then that the water can the additional water that drains off of the roof will drain properly
is my understanding. This is a 4 in I mean mitigation that conditionile So, how does the retractable roof work? It's an automatic button, but it's it's a intense like
thick canopy basically that folds in on itself. So the roof is is material. Is it aluminum? Obviously not the roof. No, the roof is going to be it's like an intense canvas. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you retract it, it folds up. Exactly. All the way to one end.
And then then when you open it up, you close it, it just falls right out. Going back to the water threw me off. Where is the creek in relationship to your Yeah, that's what I'm look That's what I'm thinking.
You said in back. Is it 100 feet in back? Three feet in back? Definitely not three. Um I mean from the property line, it is probably it is probably maybe five feet. Maybe it's like when I if I look over the fence in in the back of our property, I can see the creek right
there. It's behind the trees that are behind there. Yes. before you get to Brown Newbrook would sort of back up on to you, right? No, Brown. Brown Avenue. Brown Avenue.
Yeah, it's Commerce Street and Brown Avenue. And there is a creek. I can see I'm I'm with you. that leads into the railway river. Do you often have any water situation currently now or you guys are good? We're fine. This may be inappropriate question, but
why did you leave paradise to move here? New Jersey is very exotic. You have squirrels and snow. We have snakes. Why doesn't it? That's true. And spiders. We don't have And none of the deer go into your
backyard. We haven't had any in our backyard. We've definitely had to save rodents from our pool, which has sad, but um I mean saving them, but I don't think we've had deer. Not some bunnies. That's been fun.
building% only when it's closed. More doable than the other one. Well, 9 months maybe. What's the size of the pool? Uh, it's an 18 by 36. 18 by 36.
Is there any Is there any pvious coverage that you can remove to help mitigate what you're covering? Any extra patios? We already removed all the shed and the hot tub and everything.
We previously told those are accessories I have to get rid of. I think I mean it's not undersized. 10,000 square feet I believe is Yeah.
Your survey shows a paver walk on the upper left that went to I guess where a shed was. Yes, we had that removed. That's removed now. Both sheds were removed and the walk paver walk is there or removed? The paper walk is still there.
Seems like one that really has no utility. Do you use that paperwalk at all or is it just there? Um I mean we walk on it. We're not I know. But do let me let me rephrase the question. How how often do you use
that pave walkway? I mean, our toddler likes to run up and down it, but I guess like you said, it doesn't really serve purpose because there's nothing at the end of it. That was going to be my next question.
Right. Longer than the pool width. So, let's say 2022 ft. All right. Any other questions from the board? Yeah, just I don't know if you answered the question. From where I'm looking at this photo from this aerial
photo from the rear of the pool property line, do you know how much space is there? Off handtra ement. Originally the structure was shown in the
we interacted with the shifted Yes. So the rear yard set back of 13 or is not anymore. Yeah, that was the original one. It's 15.
That's why they don't do that. Why don't we see if there's any member of the public here that wants to speak on this? Any member of the public here that has questions for the applicant? Um, I agree. I mean, I think the mitigation to me is going to do it. um
at least in terms of the runoff also the retractability of it there will be months where there is no coverage issue um but and there's no member of the public that seems to have any concerns
oh I'm sorry I have one more question how much weight because we get snow here obviously how much weight would that when you have a close in the winter How much weight will that heavy duty roof canvas or whatever roof it's going to be, how much will that be able to
withstand without collapsing? Sometimes we get snow here is pretty heavy. Yeah. Um I don't know that number off the top of my head, but I'm pretty I thought it would be in the plans. If not, I can certainly get that number. um because the company we're dealing with specifically
because that's a concern was you know if you if we get a decent amount of snow it's a heavy wet snow that snow's really heavy and would that retract the roof be able to withstand the weight without collapsing? I have absolutely I have been told categorically that yes it's not a problem. Um but I like I said I don't
have a number but I'm sure I can get it. Yeah. as a practical matter, they're going to have to obtain a building permit for it as a routine thing they going to maintain require that the structure itself meets all of the snow.
So, um that will be taken into account as part of the permit process. Okay. Structure will be designed to withstand whatever the snow proper snow load is for this region of any any uh site engineering issues
almost in fairness to the applicant. They're new to the site. Everything's in place already. They've only removed this sheds. So, they've slightly reduced the coverage now. They've inherited what is a very high percentage site. Probably
got an approval sometime in the past. The lot coverage of looked at it above really there's no change. It's just covering up the pool surface. So the mitigation takes away
again still high number. So let me ask a question. When the roof is retracted technically is there a change in lot coverage when the roof retracted? No. thickness of the structure
for warm sunny weather. Are we ready to vote? I think I Okay. Any member of the public wish to speak on this application? Thank you. Um, okay. So, I think one of the conditions
though is going to be working with the engineer to come up with a mitigation plan um that is satisfactory to them to the township um in terms of the runoff. Um,
other than that, I I would be in favor for the reasons that I stated previously. Um, so if any member of board is in favor and would like to make a motion, I'll make a motion to Bruce, if I could add one potential
condition. Pool equipment is located in the township. The pool equipment which is already there is located in the municipal drainage. If at some point in the future the township has to do something there
very unlikely. Okay. So we have a motion made now with two conditions. Is there a second? Thank you. Mr. Yes. Chair Cohen. Yes. Mr. Hawkstein.
No. Mr. Wex. Yes. Mr. Fers. No. Miss Napano. Yes. Dodson. We have seven members voting. We have
two guesses, two motion. Congratulations. Thank you very much. [Music] Okay. Okay. The next application we're
going to call is application 2025-1742 Lion's Place, block 709, lot 9. It's request for rear yard setback variance. Good evening. How are you? Good. Uh, we're going to swear you both in. Do you have any? We have plans. I don't know if what they
already have copies of versus you want us to hand them out or they have Is this in addition to what's in the drive? Did you bring something new? Uh, no. They're just printed. Just printed. Yeah, just printed nicely. Okay.
Made us nice. No, we we just confirmed they're not. Okay, sure. Yeah. Makes it easier. Which one we working on? 17. Yeah.
Okay. Yes. We have a question. Okay, we were at the point of swearing you in. Both please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? Yes. Yes.
Please both give your full name. to spell your last name and your home address. Sure. Katherine Tmino. Last name T O M A I N O. 42 Lions, please. Brian Harris. H A R R I S. 42 Lions.
Thank you. Okay. Want to walk us through the application? So, we moved to Lion's Place in 2022. Um when we moved in, there was a pre-existing deck structure. um time has passed and we've decided we want to replace it with a new one. Um pretty
much same footprint. Uh and in the permit process, we discovered that even the existing deck violates the rear setback uh rules, right? So, um we'd actually be moving about a foot closer to the house. So, if anything, we're improving on that. Um but we also have
the uh property where uh on Lion's Place we back up onto Route 78. So, there is no rear neighbor. Um, and also we have a similar like kind of right of way uh another 10 feet between our property line and then a fence that then is the
barrier to the uh woods. So from a privacy and from a just space openness perspective um you know that 30 ft is uh a little bit arbitrary in my opinion but up to you guys to determine that um or
let us know um how else to consider the space. Thank you. Sure. Any questions? Are there footings there with the existing deck? Unknown. It seems like a former DIY type
of project. Um, we are planning to completely remove what is there and have it all built to your new deck that you plan is going to be a little bit smaller than the deck that's there now. Uh it's the foot difference is that the current deck you go down the steps and there's like a gap
between the deck and the house. So in the new deck it would be flush to the house. So while this the depth of the deck is the same, it's shifted closer to the house. Oh yeah. Any other questions? What material are you making the deck?
It's a composite similar to like trucks type decking. It's somewhere on the paperwork. What is the variance that you're asking? So there's a ve uh I don't know the right terminology but the 30 foot setback from the rear line the structure
would be I think it's like 4t in in encroachment on the 30 ft. So everything else is compliant. Yes. That was the only other questions from the board. Okay. Any members of the public have any
questions for the applicant? Any members of the public wish to speak on this application? Seeing none. Okay. Uh I think it's an improvement and um as you've said, I mean you do have the existing right ofway and then behind
you is 78. So I don't see how this would impact um detrimentally to anyone in your rear yard. So, I'd be in favor of granting the application. Uh, any member of the public, any member of the public, any member of the board is in favor, wants to make a motion.
I'll move to approve. I'll second. Mr. Hawkstein, yes. Mr. Wex, yes. Mr. Kenbound, yes. Mapano, yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Good luck with everything.
Okay. Final application is application 2025-18. This is for 37 Church Mall, block 207, lot 23. This is a request for site plan with the use. Good evening, Madam Chairwoman, members of the board. Steven H. Murman of the
law firm of Java, Wargaff, Hicks, Khan, Wickstrom, and Sinnins appearing on behalf of the applicant. Very nice to see you all. I think it's been a year since I was here. Mr. Hale only lets me come out in the summertime apparently only because it's a little bit hot. But actually uh I'm glad to be here tonight.
Uh we have a very exciting application to go over. Um and I know you've all uh read all of the materials um including those wonderful letters from uh the two mics. Uh I call them by only by their last names because otherwise I get confused. Um but in any
event, uh what we're here to do tonight is we're here uh with regard to a very exciting project from Share Alliance um at the uh First Presbyterian Church. Uh we have proposed and for your
consideration need a use variance to uh start operating a uh community food banking kitchen. I'm not going to bore you with all the details because that's why I have witnesses. So with that being said, we do acknowledge that there is a requirement for use variance. Uh we are
uh seeking site plan waiver because there are no changes to the structures. There will be no additional uh pavement. There will be no additional uh anything uh that uh they intend on doing to the outside of the property. In fact, we're
not even proposing any signage uh with regard to this use. Uh obviously if a signage is appropriate later on and it does not comply with the ordinance uh we will have to come back and deal with that. We've also made very specific um statements within our SOP which is also
going to be uh reiterated by the witnesses about certain dates times uh of the operation. I want the board to know right up front that we spent hours and hours developing the plan. Uh it is a work in progress and that's why we are
uh coming in uh to discuss the entire project because we want the board and the citizens to understand what the entire scope is but understand as well that we are uh going to be phasing it in. So we're going to talk about the phases as we go along. Each of the phases is going to bring a different
type of um use or up um task basically uh to that. So without further ado at this point I would like to call our first witness uh who's going to be uh Christian Roling who is a representative of the
share alliance. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? Yes I do. Please keep your voice up. Give us your full name. to spell your last name. Uh, give us the, uh, Share Alliance address. All right. Um, yes, my name is Kristen
Rubling Jass. Last name spelled R U E B E L L I N G-N J A SS. And the address will be at 37 Church Mall. Sure. Um, this Springfield Presbyterian Church
was looking to become more of the face um that this church has been for this community as is on your picture there. Um, it reached out to the comm to different organizations in the community to start an initiative to help this community and bring us back into contact with it. So we've, you know, on our
board we have people from the Antioch Church, from Renaissance Church, Rotary Club, and obviously the Springfield Presbyterian Church. Um, and we've been in contact talking with the inner faith council, the town, um, and different individuals and different, you know,
school boards and school, you know, just trying to get really our church back involved in what's going on around here. And we saw this as a need that our church could really, I mean, it's a tenant of our church to help feed people. So we This would be a great way to reintroduce ourselves.
So, Sher has a uh lease arrangement with the church. Correct. Um, correct. Um, now how long um has the planning taken for us to get to this point where we are
ready to make this presentation? I believe two over two years. And there's a prior iteration of the project. Yes. Uh we came before the board I think a year ago June well starting sometime last a year ago this spring
with a different a different team right and we've re revamped the application to make it so wi with with regard to this um the uh the lease agreement uh allows for the use of which parts of the building
it allows us to use um there's a dining room and storage room and an industrial um in the in the basement part of the the parish house. And you're not going to have ex exclusive use of those areas within the building, are you? No, we do not. the uh Springfield our
church um there's a children's academy there and we also rent uh give space to other congregations that haven't had homes for their churches um that meet there at different points in time and that's what uh basically necessitated the preparation of the outline that we did in the SOP of the
days of operation right right because we want this to be able to work and it's in conjunction with the church and everything that's there it's not to really upset anything else that's going on you know so we're really cognizant of, you know, when other activities are going that we're
not there. You know, we're not going to be there during the week when the children's academy is. I mean, that would not make any sense to have driveby food pickup, but you got kids trying to get in and out of, you know, daycare and um stuff like that. And Sundays is busy for church. So, Saturdays is a pretty
calm day for the congregate for the for the Paris house use. Um and so we went with Saturday for that. um with with with regard to the overall um mission statement of the Sher Alliance, can you share the mission statement with the board?
Sure. Our mission statement is to create availability for healthier food. We seek to procure healthier, wholesome, nutrientdense food supply. These fresh food products, legumes, as well as shelf stable items and our and our limited
number of perishables for us to give to the people to instead of just the standard box of mac and cheese and a can of beans. Um the other part is to just help coordinate that distribution so that there's somewhere for them to come and get it and in the long run really is to educate people how to use those fresh
ingredients, right? I mean, it's one give somebody, you know, some kale, if they don't know what to do with it, it's just going to go bad in their, you know, in their fridge. So, the goal is to help educate as well. And that a lot of that could be online or eventually, you know, depending on where things go be in other
forms. The um we're gonna we're going to talk a lot about the patrons in a little while, but but for the most part, how do the food stuffs and the other
food come to you. I mean, are they going to be delivered to you? Is there going to be pickups? Uh the food that we'll get I mean all the congregations and organizations that are involved will be doing food drives and then we'll be bringing the food to the church to to store. We have shelves
in the in the in the dining room hall that we've purchased to store it prior to that. Um we will also work with you know the community food bank of New Jersey um Grace Church and other food bank areas to, you know, help make sure that food's getting distributed
properly. Now, with with that, you mentioned food located, correct? Um, and as you've developed your plans, you've been in contact with them. I have um earlier this year, we were we
were talking to them. They actually reached out to us as um hoping that we might be some satellite option for them um bring us some food or even help bring us the perishable items. Um there was an initiative if it's still going um for them to get a refrigerated truck that
they would be able to bring in and bring that so that you don't have to worry about storing you know the milk, the eggs, the cheese, that kind of thing. Um and you'd be able to just serve it out of that truck for that day. So if we if we were to do that, we would be able to coordinate that with the rest of our program.
Correct. Now, um let's talk a little bit about um how you believe uh o overall this is going to operate within the structure of the building. Sure. So, I mean, we set it up inside
the parish house innately is kind of nice for it because it does have this U-shaped drive. It's a dead end street at church mall and so there's one way in and one way out. So you can really control that traffic flow. Um and it's not like they're not parked in the middle of a street to stop to pick up
their food. It's behind the building. Um you know so that naturally makes it easy. And the entrance to where that you know the dining room and where the food in the kitchen is is right there at the bottom of the hill separate from where the uh the children's academy ent the children academy entry is is separate
from that. Stage one we've identified as the pantry drive-thru food. Correct. And we thought let's talk about how that's going to operate first. Right. So what we what we're envisioning is that the sher will have this website and we want to actually get the word out
that people would register to come and pick up food so we'd know how many people are coming, what size families they might so we could prepare boxes of food to just for them to come in, check in, and we would hand them, you know, put the food in their car and they would go on on their merry way. Um, this
allows us to, you know, hopefully serve a little, you know, not have to worry about trying to get people inside. The volunteers are more needed to, you know, sort the food out to get that ready. Um, you know, but we can serve quite a few people that way with with little impact to the actual what's going on inside the
church. And it just seems like there's other models that people have been using for that. That's a good way to start. So, uh, and and we all remember what it was like during COVID and having to to drive through. you envision those kind of traffic.
It would be great at someday if it was that busy, but I think it it will definitely take time. Um I mean I live in Union and on Morris I've seen where Canes has blocked up all the way up Morris Avenue when they you know because there's that much need in Union County. Um of course we were talking during the pandemic.
Yeah, that's a whole another. Yeah. So I mean but you you but based upon your projections you believe that time frame that we put in here of uh operating from 1 to 4 pm on Saturday. That would be what we would expect for the first
phase. That's what I would expect. Yes. Understanding that if the board were to approve that and there was a reason to seek expanded hours that we would have to come back and have conversation about expansion of course at a later time. We're ready to do that.
um going to have four or five. Uh how many volunteers do you anticipate there being there at that particular um I would say probably up to seven um depending on you know a lot of those would be you know helping pack up the food and bringing it in and out and sorting it out. Um and then a couple
like at least one or two people to check off that they've registered get their information and then we'll we'll we'll get into a little bit more and I know that actually parking counts which Mr.
relationship but there are 17 parking spots behind the uh the parish house correct um with this phase the only parking that would actually be required would be for the volunteers that is correct so there will be no parking required for the people coming in
no um stage two uh we've indicated uh would continue as we just described. But then there's another component. What would the second component be on stage two? Right. Stage two is really where we
start getting into helping people get helping them determine what better foods they should pick. So it's more like setting up the shelves we have as a shopping almost like a mini supermarket say and you walk them through and help them pick out what would be most useful for their families. I mean we've got a
lot you know what works well for my family might not work well for somebody else's depending on what they're used to eating. Um, but giving them the power to feel like they're choosing what they get. You know, you're not just handing them here, this is what you must eat. You know, just giving them, you know, a little more ownership and dignity to
what they're doing. No, it it it's interesting as we we talk about this we we know there's a need. Yes. But how do we know where where those people come from? In our discussion, we talked about, you know,
Springfield being Springfield, right? Something like this and we would like to think as we are that's not the case. I mean, we've talked to people in other communities around here and got numbers that there
are people from Springfield that are needing to go outside of the community to find the food they need every day. Um, it's not it's not the day of, you know, the person sitting on the train tracks or whatever. It's your neighbor that has a good job that can't afford to pay for their food for their kids
anymore. And with more programs getting cut, um, I think this is going to become even a more prevalent problem going forward. We just want to, you know, make sure that we're We're taking care of our community. Um, but you're not setting up any uh
requirements, no income limitations or anything like that qualify. Pretty much anyone. Yes. I mean, the biggest thing we do like them to register so we know where they're coming from one so that we can start building a base and we want to get
their feedback for what they want as part of our process of where do we need to go with this as we look at stage three and four. It's really determined by, you know, what what do our patrons need and how can we best serve them. Now, we we would anticipate during phase
two that the drive-through from there. Yeah, for that I mean it may be that you might split it like have one Saturday would be your your drive-thru and one Saturday you would have your you know two weeks later you have your you know
come in and shop so that you don't have to worry about the conflicting parking issues. Um because you know you probably don't want somebody parking walking across if you got cars coming through the parking lot at the same time. um as well.
Um but again uh the parking 17 spaces would you believe is sufficient would be sufficient because again with the reservations right because for that there would also be a limited number of people that would be allowed per time to come in. I mean the space to shop is not that huge. You want them to have that personal
experience and yeah so it would be controlled. So when we talk about phases one and two that's really the bulk of the operation. Yes. Where we're going to jump off. Yes, for sure. Um,
do you have any idea how long you're going to be stage one before you move on to stage? Um, really don't. I mean, it it it depends. We want to do this in a way that we're going to succeed. We want to build a program that has strong feet
underneath it and good support. Um, and the board will be, you know, evaluating people are coming and what as I said as we get these contacts you know getting a better understanding of what our patrons need and what will be beneficial to them to know how fast to move forward
now though that part of the operation is based on experience as well correct but in stages three and four you've taken it to another level correct why don't tell the board about stage
three stage Three would be to uh potentially add some cooking classes to it, which would be small groups of like six or seven, you know, small groups with somebody that knows how to cook and you utilize
you the community kitchen um the industrial kitchen at the church to actually show them how to prepare some of these foods, give them some actual experience with it. um to show that you know you can come up with something that at the end you're wanting to eat. Um so it would you know that would again would
be some sort of you know once a month kind of operation and the other part that we can build with that is actually you know building out with our website even justformational pieces for them to be able to get a hold of you know and even potentially videotape some of those kind of classes so that they can watch
them with that type of uh program. more fresh produce, fresh meat, things like that. What's the sourcing going to be for that? That's a little bit different sourcing for the right long term.
Right. For that, I think it would be a lot more working with, you know, partnering with somebody like Grace up in Summit that does a lot of or, you know, getting even more specific with like Hillside um or even the donations that, you know, the fundraising that we do ourselves to be able to go out and
buy some of the stuff as needed or for it to be donated. Now with with with this type of use obviously we're standing before the board of adjustment municipality obviously and you also recognize that board of health
also is going to go correct. Yes, of course. And each of your volunteers are going to be trained appropriately uh in food handling. Correct. And anyone coming in and teaching the cooking classes of course is going to have the correct certification. That is correct.
Um let's talk a little bit about the hours for um this uh this addition. Would we anticipate that it would still be uh on Saturdays? Yeah, it would still be in that nice Saturday afternoon period because that's when we know the churches the activity
level is less in the area at least for the parent house and and how obviously this is something again on a that's going to be based upon whether or not there is a desire of the patrons to
Right. Right. I mean, we we would love to put this forward, but if if it's not something they want, we're not going to put something out that they're not going to partake in. So, you know, that's that's why it'll be more of a learn. And do you anticipate there's going to be
any I don't anticip Yeah, I don't think that there'll be a fee for the course. It would be the opportunity. Um, and then stage four talks about opening the community kitchen for meals. Now, we use the verbiage community kitchen and we did
that for a reason, didn't we not? Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you Why don't we tell the board why we did that? Well, I mean, we we do I mean, we see this as a community kitchen where we're going to do a cooking class. However, it again is to help showcase how you can utilize the foods that you're going to be able to
get here and help build that community and connection um and support for people. When you sit down and break bread with somebody, you form a a bond of sorts. It it it makes it familiar. And it's really to, you know, give them
this plent that you can come and learn how and have a good meal and and maybe be able to take it back and learn how to do it yourself if you have the opportunity. Um, it's just to help support them in some other way when they might need it.
people of a certain age. We all remember No, no, this is not uh you know going to be a Tuesday afternoon with a line out the back window up the street um for people coming by for a cup of soup, you know, during the middle of the week. This is a registered,
you know, you'd have to register to be here and plan to be there um participate and It's it's you know the neighbors across the street that this is one chance they'll have to come and get a meal that's prepared for them where they might not be able to get that other
share alliance recognizes location isolant of This is not something that is going to bring down. Right. Right. That is exactly right. I
mean, the idea of this really is to help build up this community um and make it make it stronger. Um as I said, the Springfield Presbyterian Church has been here for a long time. Um, we don't want to be the museum. We want to be something that is seen as being active
in this community and and moving it forward and taking care of its community. Whether it be through Sher Alliance, the other churches we have, and other opportunities that we've been given. Just have uh one clarification. The uh the parking we've talked about so far
has all been behind the parish shop. Correct. Your agreement with the church allows you to also use uh the parking uh behind the main sanctuary. That is correct. That's an additional 22 spots to the 17. That's correct. Um
just if we can the maximum number of people that you feel in stage four when we have that etc.
the room being able to I mean we were planning to feed 20 people at a time. The room could obviously probably handle more than that but we were planning on 20 people and then probably having you know five or seven people to help prepare the food, serve the food.
So the most people that would be and that's why I wanted to get here number of people that are going to be on site for that right would be under under under 30 people for every two hours and there is
a break between for people to change park I have no further questions at this time I reserve my right to ask additional questions based on the board or the questions. Thank you. Yes,
you're you're still up. I'm still here. Okay. No, I'm glad to be here. I truly am glad to be here. As you get to uh the more advanced stages, how does the food I mean, you're telling me people are
um as you get into stage three and four, do you need trucks to bring in the merchandise that you to with the food that they I mean, if we're talking 20 people, I mean, it could be somebody I could I could shop for that in my in my my my
Tucson. Um, doing that every Well, but well, it be it would be once a month, but I mean, it could be that it would be a truck that would be delivering something, but it would be probably like a Saturday morning or right before the event would start. Um, and there there is room for I mean
there's garbage trucks that come down that way. And we wouldn't anticipate it to be any larger than um one of the trucks that you see from our Julos type of produce truck. That's probably that's probably about the size truck we're talking about. Yeah. Um I mean we're not talking
about a shop right or a No, no, no. No semiis. No. How many You had talked about 20 people um in tal on Saturday come through there and I say that with
the purpose of I am a volunteer of grace and I've been out there when there's 200 plus people down the street and the neighbors in an uproar and they had to move. So this is what I'm envisioning is going down Mars Avenue and Does that work? Well, I mean right now some of it we could potentially control because we are
asking to register. So they don't register. They don't register. I I mean we've organizations have viewed that space before to do something like this and we maybe saw 30, you know. I mean there
hasn't been that many. So I mean you think you would have under 50? I think there would be under 50. Um if we can build that from there that would be great. I I would rather be happily surprised eventually. My other question was you had mentioned
in stage one um selling the food that that's not fresh food that's Yeah. Yeah. Um but you had mentioned for the um I had talked to some people from um Hillside or the community food bank
and there was an initiative that they were hoping they had a grant for. I don't know where that's at at this point, but they were very excited to have us come to this so that they could expand their reach a little bit to help people because So, would they be driving the food refrigerator truck to you and dropping
off or leaving the refrigerator truck on the property? We never got that far with it because everything kind of got messy in the middle of winter after the election. Um, it could be that it would be dropped off or it could be that. I mean, and we do and we and we do have a refrigerator and
a freezer in the kitchen, so they could drop stuff off that we could use for that day. Okay. So, it wouldn't be a refrigerator truck staying on the property. Probably not. Okay. That's what I'm I'm sorry. Thank you. Now, this is only one day a month on a Saturday, correct? At this at to start with. Oh,
every Saturday. But then you were missing your um Saturday and then every two weeks say the Saturday every every two weeks that you didn't do the the the
drive-thru you were looking to do the mini supermarket. We we could once everything builds we would we would start with once a month and we want to be able to you know as the need increases it could go to every other week and then if we you know we would just you know like to be able to add into that
other than how you get to stage four looks like uh it almost eliminates stage one by definition or or am I or am I misinterpreting? No, you you you got it. By the time we get to stage four, hopefully we're not
going to see the need for people drive in and drop a box. I'm not sure that's the answer though. No, I'm not sure that's the answer. I think it all I mean it does all grow, but the thing the um what would end up happening is if we get to the community kitchen part, we would pick we would you
know probably not have gotten to fill if we' filled all the Saturdays for that would come back to having one even I mean because that's in the evening not in the afternoon. So all of that starts after if we if we would have had a drive through it would have been done at First
question went to whether or not you would continue to be doing the drive. Stage one, right? Stage two also has same question by the way will be posed with respect to stage two. It looks like that's that's going by the boards
again if I'm reading your philosophy what you intend to do for the citizenry. It it's it's not replacement. It's additive. Yeah, you know, stage four, you moved us to like once we move out of stage one to
stage two, stage one is still there, but it may become a smaller piece if more people want to come shopping and we don't need that. And that's what we're told maybe the drive-through goes away, right? Because if you're if you're serving 50 people and then she's doing a cooking class for six, you just eliminated 44 people from getting food
every week, which is not what you're looking to do. not what we're looking to do because one it will take a while for us to do that every to logistically do that every week is a lot in time that's where we want to go and that's why we have a board that would be you know evaluating what we're doing and
making sure that we have right resources to do that kind of balance act okay stage one you're going to be doing this once a month stage two still once a month be once a month for that and then add a week for the for the
for doing the shopping then stage three potentially to increase to two Saturdays a month with the potential of the cooking class. Now I may have missed this so correct me if I'm wrong. Do you plan on doing eventually down sometime down the road?
You plan on doing this every Saturday in the month or keep up maybe one or two Saturdays a month? I mean if the need was there and we could do that that would be fantastic. Um, but I think it would really depend if the need was there. Um,
you know, because you just don't know until you really get the chance to to see how it's going to grow. I mean, it could take, you know, 10 years to get to something like that. And if that happens, great. And or, you know, it may stay where it is and that might be
enough. So, I I I've heard that you have spoken to other kitchens in the area here. Um, Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with how often these food kitchens were open. So, how many how many how often do
they hand out food? I mean, and yeah, so I mean, a lot of these are every week or every other week. Um and and the goal really as I see it as you know Shar's trying to reach out into the community and the church is to really
start interacting with all of the pantries around um to create a better network for all of these people um you know and the organizations the the only
issue I might have with this and I know I don't have a little crystal ball in front of me neither do you is future, how many people would you would there be? I mean, would this grow exponentially
um to where it gets out of hand? We have so many people coming. I know you say you want people to register online ahead of time and I think it was brought up earlier. Um I don't know if I got a clear answer of that or not. If people show up who have not registered,
I know that was asked earlier. Um, but I don't know if I got a good answer. What What is the procedure? What's the process to what would you if someone were to come in, drive up with the car, open the trunk and say, and they're not registered. What would you do in a
situation like that? So, we have people waiting for them to come through and if there's plenty of food available, you register them then on the site as they come through because we will advertise this on our website and hope that people can do that. Um, but some of it will become word of mouth
and you don't want to have to turn anybody away. Um, but eventually, you know, hopefully hopefully you do get to the point where, you know, I'm sorry, all our food is gone today and, you know, here's who you should go see next. Um, but they will we will capture that information as they come in so that we
can one get an accurate count of who's there so that, you know, we can really make some good decisions about how we can move forward. My only concern is the potential for or a line of cars down Mars Avenue or or a
line of cars down Church Mall. Um, and I know that probably won't happen, but it's a possibility. And if if that would become a a problem, I think that's why the share alliance is kind of unique in the fact that it is an alliance of a lot of things here in
town. And if we have to address that issue, find somewhere better to do that. I think that, you know, would be, you know, if that is a point, then, you know, if it gets to that point, then yeah, you you outgrow where you are and you move to the next spot to better
serve your community. But, um, I'd love to actually get to that point. That be, you know, I think we'd all like to make sure that was all happening. Just to review this, I think we were discussing it over here. Stage one is Saturdays 1 to 4 once a month with the
drive-thru. Stage two was both of those on interchangeable weeks within a month. Stage three was your cooking classes, which was six or seven people, which would then offset one of the other weekends. And then stage four
was to 20 people potentially. From there, you could potentially fill all four weekends or would you still I think we could fill all four if we had the staff to do that and the volunteers to do that. I think it it kind of breaks
it out because some people might have a more calling to come do help with the communication piece and some people are better at, you know, sorting cans and making sure that the expiration date is right. Um, but I think, you know, we would potentially be able to do that.
You mentioned that phase one is between you have proposed times for the remaining. Most of it we're trying to keep between 1 and 4 because we know that's open time within the, you know, the parking lot during the day. There's not any earlier activities or later activities to worry
about. Um, so that's why we we've chosen that time frame. So, you could potentially have the drive-thru and the cooking class and all those things happening, but at different days, different weekends. Okay. Okay. That's yeah that's two things on the same thing.
It would hopefully not just because I think some of it would get confusing. So yeah so so this is I I love this. I think it's wonderful for the community, but there's a lot of hopefulies and, you
know, we're looking to expand and we hope that we grow. And I think that that I think we really need to nail down what it is in terms of days, times, and the amount of people that are expected for those days so that we can understand
exactly what you would need. Because if there comes a point, let's say, where um you fill up and you have stage one, stage two cooking classes also going on, you could have a parking issue um which
could lead to um concerns. So I think it's probably a good idea for us to understand maximums of what we're looking at for each of those stages and the days on which you would be looking
to do it. And you're thinking like the first Saturday of the month is the drive-thru 20 people. Okay. Correct. And also can and I'm sorry I'm not an expert in this but can you define community community
the reason I ask you that is in your write up you say you're going to follow kind of what Cranford did right cares my understanding Cranford Cares is solely for Cranford residents is that what you're proposing here then
we are proposing the main tenant would be to support this community could be that we end up supporting a little more. But the the audience So you're not proposing it solely for Cranfield res I mean for Springfield residents. I mean if you have extra food would we
give it to some other food bank? And I'm I'm just asking because that would vary your the amount of people you're talking about. If it's resident it narrows it down. If it's open then it's open. That's my concern coming from the summit area is I was personally taken back the first time I was there and you saw hundreds of people lining the street. It
was it's a it's a lot of people and word gets out very quickly. There's a lot of resource a lot of these that have a rule, right? Union does as well. That's what I'm asking. Connecticut farms does like union and I mean communion would be I mean, you
know, I mean this we're in the middle of Springfield, so this is you're also at a major bus, you know, stop there. And I don't know if this is your area, but my question was with regards to the new property being built, the 100 residents that are coming in it, do they
come through there? I tried to pull that up. They have to go down, right? Green. Is that right? Well, they have a parking. How do they What's the ingress and egress to the new structure behind them? It would be via church hall. Yeah. So, you're talking another 100 units of
people. Would would you if we were to say okay this would you be adverse to limiting it limiting it Springfield residents like a lot of the other community uh pantries do and
I mean we I mean the hope for this church I mean I don't live in but I go to this church and so the people I deal with in this town I mean I think know If that was what we needed to do, um, we could certainly do that
because I think the need is here in this town that needs to be supported. There are a lot of the local ones are limited to the residents of the town where the where the pantries are. I think that would, you know, I think one of our concerns is
limiting, you know, the traffic get amount of people. Oh, I do. Thinking of that every time I go to church every Sunday, right? Um and and I have a couple other question. Do is this considered a drive-in? If it's you have an ordinance against drive in
is that considered a drive-in facility? The food that's being picked up is just like a grocery. Yeah. This this doesn't seem to be to the general public. It's not they're not paying for it in the sense that you you're you're looking for a fast food, which is what we're trying to um
restrict. Um, I'll let Michael chime in anytime he wants. Uh, I didn't view it that way that this was a drive-thru. So, again, they're asking for the use. Would you envision having people pick up prepared meals at
coming through in this drive-thru area? We had not considered that at this point. I mean, the community kitchen part was to come in and have a meal there, not to, you know, like I mean, like the community food bank does that. I mean, I've been in their industrial kitchen,
which is amazing. If you haven't been there, you should really check it out. It's crazy how good their cooks are. Um, but really for us, it would be to give them the food to go home to be able to make for their families. In the year or so that you've been planning this or realigning this, have
you looked at any studies about the population you think you might have? Like I'm thinking big numbers and your numbers are low and I'm like, "Okay, you know." Yeah. I mean, we did do a little bit of surveying to get some, you know, and I got some information from lawyers at neutral bank and there's there's
definitely people in Union County and Springfield specifically that are being served currently elsewhere um that would be beneficial to allow them to get food in closer to their own home. How did you choose Saturday as the oper operative day of the week? Well, we we
well because Sunday is church and there's several churches that use that and during the week there is the monastery school um preschool that is in the parish house that operates Monday through Friday. So I wouldn't we wouldn't want to operate while they're there. So Saturday is the only day that works. Saturday is the best day because
otherwise you're putting it into the evening and stuff. Um and it's when more people are actually available probably to volunteer um their time. Yeah, I recognize and commend the inclusivity uh of this project. And I noticed that
you mentioned in the report a portion of the collection will be dedicated to kosher items to satisfy the needs of the Jewish community, but Saturday is the Sabbath for a large portion of the Jewish community. Um certainly not the entire community. uh but just by virtue
of it being on Saturday would would exclude uh any um Orthodox practicing Jew Jewish person from from um partaking in in the program and the need that that you're proposing um in a in a very
significant way. How how how did you how would you address that? Um, I think, you know, if if we were able, you know, if that was part of the community that needed to be served, we we'd need to figure out a way to to make that work for them. Um, I think to the best
in the in the design of the website, uh, we can uh indicate something on the website that if somebody uh was not able to uh travel on on Saturday, uh, that special arrangements could be made uh for a a pickup on Sunday. um or on
another day during the week and they would make specific arrangements for that based upon the contact or if they were uncomfortable even a potential delivery to be dropped off because yeah we don't want to exclude
anybody purposefully. So yeah that would definitely be addressed in the website so that we can make those special accommodations when needed. Can you talk a little bit more about what happens if somebody who's not registered shows up? Because that's a little confusing to me.
Is if if people are registering, but you want to serve people, right? Somebody shows up at 1:30 and you know you have people coming for the rest of the afternoon. What do you do with those people? They come back at 4 if we have anything left or No. I mean, if you you you keep track of
who's been there. So, they're not going to be able to come back again. Um, I'm thinking if some if you have a certain amount of food for a certain amount of people that are registered, the goal would be that we probably have more than what we need most of the time when we're getting set up for these events. Um, and so you're going to have
a buffer for some of that to happen. Um, you know, with the nature hopefully as things progress more and more people will know to register. Um, as I said, some of it's going to be people, you know, that are using the program saying, "Hey, I just heard about this, you know, and here's But if they can't get to that
at that time, they may show up for it. Um, we register them then so that the next time they, you know, they'll be told when we're going to be coming the next one so that they will be part of that setup. Um, but we hopefully would not run out. You know, if if we only had
five boxes of food and we knew five people were coming, then we'd have to sit there and that's when you have your list of here, this is I'm so sorry I can't do this for you today. Here's where you can go. Um and that's why getting more connected with the other food pantries and other organizations
around um is is also important. Um I also have a question. How do you have you thought about how you deal with the garbage and all the things that are I mean the I mean the parish house has some fairly substantial garbage cans
there already. Most of their shouldn't be that much more. most of it should be going out as you know and if it's the perishable food then you know we you know we take care of it when it needs to be um but I don't see that as being an issue for just because the use of the
church right now we're hearing yes yes okay um any other questions for this witness Any members of the public have any actually sorry before we get to the public our
professionals do you have any questions just to confirm I think you said it the school does not operate on Saturday or Sunday I really you know from an engineering perspective and zoning we want to make sure the parking works and the circulation right
and um initially when the applicant was contemplating this. We did out we did our traffic counts throughout the week because it wasn't really specified of a Saturday. You look at the table of the parking. Saturday really is the day that
is the least intense at the parish house site. Um we only recorded one, two or three cars on the four Saturdays or whatever that we saw. Now we didn't know it was 1 to 4 and we had 1250, 1210 and later. I don't think
it would really change whether it's 1250 or 150. So, Saturday seems to work for stage one, two, three very well at the parish house site. Stage four is where you're going to have to utilize parking on both sites.
Um, but based upon what's being presented in the stages with the numbers presented, it seems to work from a parking perspective with the volunteers enumerated counts. We did have a suggestion that the, you
know, the volunteers could park at the church parking lot at the corner and walk down perhaps and leave the most spaces available at the parish house for the activity that may have some variability or unpredictability as
but seems to be thought out and the circulation based upon the numbers presented 10 for this hour and 10 for that hour seems to Michael has outlined all the planning questions separately. I'm not going to touch.
What I'm concerned about is there are projects that are thought of or are in the works in the immediate vicinity. Has that been played into your comments,
Mr. Mr's comments regarding regarding parking? In other words, if once those things come to fruition, what happens? How does this project fit in? Does the 17th spot suddenly become
horribly inaccurate? Is it a non-issue that I'm raising or um so it was taken into the account in this sense? Number one, every applicant for every proposal has to provide parking on site. So, we
discount the the street number one. Um, number two, we did point out that there's really 16 spaces on the parish. The the survey is somewhat dated. Two years ago when the ADA uh van space was added,
van spaces are 16 feet wide. You basically take two 9-footers and there you go, you lose one. So, there's 16 at the parish. We did point out that the on street parking on Church Mall is going to be severely uh reduced at the completion of Patriots
Way and a lot of the other spaces are have uh time limitations. Um so again the focus for us is to make sure that parking works on site. Will people park on the street? I'm sure that's going to happen. There's no way to prevent it and there's it it is
legitimate to park on the street, but you do our aim, our goal is to have the people park in the designated spaces. Um, so I my comments about parking don't change with that. That has been anticipated.
Um, and the circulation doesn't get impacted. Nobody from the future development is utilizing parish parking or the church parking unless they've done so under some sort of um handshake agreement that we're not aware
of and I don't think that has happened at this point in time. I have one quick question with the registration. Do they register for a time slot or was it one to four and like it's open? It it hopefully would be like per hour like between 1 to two, two to three,
three to four. to help keep everything moving along if possible to the best. Question with respect to parking. Um I can foresee that a lot of
the customers I'm using the term loosely might be uh wheelchair might be more likely to use wheelchairs than the population at large. Is that taken into account?
So, the parish uh parking lot has one van accessible space for the 16 spaces which meets code. The church has I believe there were five ADA spaces out of the 27. That also meets code. We what
we did indicate was at the church lot. This is on the corner of Church Mall and Morris Avenue, the white building. um that church parking lot, those five handicap spaces do not meet federal ADA guidelines which were last changed in
2012. This is a very common thing. Um so we would want to bring them up to code if possible as a potential condition. Would bringing them up to code, would they lose a spot? So they do have ADA spots next to each other without um the aisle. So, it's
possible that if you do bring it up to code, you might lose a spot because you have to do an aisle. I don't think it's a significant loss of parking for what we're talking about for this. Again, the numbers that have shown, and I compliment Mr. Murman and Miss Raglin
Jass, I hope I said that right. Rugland Jass. This is a much more focused and and more much more clarified application than than the previous I'll call them two iterations. the appeal and the the first time. So again, with the
numbers presented, stage one, two, three, the on-site parish house parking should work with those numbers and stage four between the church lot and the parish lot, the numbers do seem to work. Again, it's if those numbers
increase, then it's a different story, right? But we're not there yet. At least I don't believe we're there yet. And I think there are some mechanisms, Mr. Murman touched on it. We concluded maybe there's some procedural things if there's going to be a change in this. We
just want it to work and we don't want to have what um some of the maybe area institutions have exhibited where a much larger unanticipated
patron utilization has occurred. Hope I'm saying the right words. How long would the shopping be for each participant? I would say 5 to 10 minutes by the time you get them in. I mean, it's not it's not like a huge grocery
store that you'd have to go through. Be a little more refined, but maybe 15 maybe 15 would be fair. Okay. Thank you. Um, okay. They've submitted a very detailed
business plan as part of their application and they've provided testimony to that. and if it's generally limited or if you could put some reasonable boundaries on that so that it consistent with what the testimony is
and what's described. The parking is going to work in my opinion and the layout is going to work and it's not going to overcrowd this our community. I think what everybody's thinking is what happens if it doesn't what happens almost if it's too
successful what happens if it start if the cars start lining up down church mall and it goes in that direction I think that's what everybody's thinking because if it operates as it's described in this application limited to one to four limited to
Saturdays and all the other limitations I took the reasonable conditions that you would put on it it will work and it's and it'll be supported by the community. I think the question that everybody's wondering is what are reasonable
conditions? They've already offered quite a few of them. Uh no refrigerated truck running all day long. That's been testified that that wouldn't happen. No semi-tra limiting the size of the trucks, the type of trucks and and so forth.
community, how that's defined. And there's quite a few others. I'll get into those later. But I think that's where, at least what I'm thinking, what I'm hearing because if it's if it operates as it's described in this application with the limitations that they've put on
themselves, I think I think it's a very good use. It's the how do you how do you control that or how do you as they the testimony was what happens if they outgrow a space.
Thanks. Okay, let's open it up to questions for the witness questions. I just have one more. Sure. I'm sorry. No. Um, I noticed I was reading your
stage two plan. Were you going to allow were you going to have people drive up and get food put in the car? Also, people shopping at the same time? No, they'll be in on separate days. So, when you're in the document, it doesn't say that. Yeah, it should be in separate days. I think it'll it
right now their document has everything happening at the same time. Yeah. Well, it would be on a Saturday. Um, but it wouldn't have to be on the same Saturday. Okay. Because it does say like you would reduce your number of shoppers to 10 per an hour and you would increase or your drive-thru cars of 10 per hour, but you would increase your shoppers to six per
hour. So, it seemed like they were together. Yeah. And then you talked about the third stage for the food distribution occur two Saturdays per month. So, it just seemed like all of a sudden we were doing a lot more at once than we just discussed.
Probably written that way. Um, that's fine. I just wanted to make sure because we went from No, you know, I mean I mean it would be nice to do both, but I mean logistically it does get to be a little more chaotic to then there was then there was further testimony that they wouldn't have both of them on. I think she
clarified it in her testimony later on saying that they wouldn't have both activities occurring on the same Saturday because you would not want a drive-thru and people shopping and now you have this crisscross of pedestrian pedestrian
traffic in a very small parking lot. So again, that's all part of I think a more a refined business plan if you will with reasonable conditions. Okay. Thanks. Sorry. We certainly on the no issue with
revising our operating manual so to speak to the testimony and submit that potential resolution. Thank you. I have a question for the planner. Do you I don't know if this is something you're going to talk about later, but is
there a mechanism that you could suggest to limit this in some way as far as numbers? I I think as Mr. Murman just stated, as you listen as you like to hear all of the testimony first and hear all it's very good feedback. The comments back
and forth are fantastic. listen to the public, listen to our community, and you gather it all and almost come back with a refined business or operations plan that they would agree to if it's reasonable that they would agree to. And
with the with it built into there, the whatifs, what if it becomes a traffic issue? What if there's insufficient parking? There has to be, you know, mechanisms built into that same plan and answer the whatifs so that we also
protect, as we want to serve our community, we also want to protect our community or, you know, represent everybody in that area. So, I think that's the best way to do it. Stepping out of line when I say this,
um, this organization is part of this If there are things that need to be changed as a result of all of these whatifs that we're talking about, we will be back to address whatever we can.
If for example, we find on a particular day and we are inundated with cars operation. Of course, we're going to ask for the assistance of the police department if need be for some crowd control. But if that circumstance does exist, obviously that's a reason for us to come back to
the board because that means that our plan needs to be more refined. Okay. Um, anything else from the board members at this time? Okay. I'm going to open it up. It's just questions for the witness. there will be an opportunity for any
member of the public to speak on the application. But if there are any questions for this witness um with respect to the testimony that has been heard thus far, please come on up. None. Excellent. Uh the time is 7:42 and
we are going to take a five minute break. Thank you. Okay. Part: 2
Okay, it's 7:56 and we are back on the record. >> Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. At this time, I would call our licensed professional planner, Robert Hudac. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> I do. >> Please state your full name, spell your
last name, give us your business address. >> Yes. My name is Robert Hudach. R O B E R T. Last name Hudac Hud D is in David A. K. And my business address is 1955 Route 34 Wall, New Jersey.
>> Thank you. Judah, can you please give the board the benefit of your academic credentials and professional licenses? >> Yes, I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey. All of my licenses are in order. I've appeared before this board before. I was accepted
as a witness I think it was 2023 if memory serves. Uh I have been accepted as a witness at numerous boards throughout the state of New Jersey. On and on and on and I'm a great person. >> Thank you. Any objections from any members of the board of um qualifying
Mr. Hudac as a uh expert in planning? No. >> Thank you very much, Chair. >> Uh Mr. Judach, before we we we get into it, I just want to run run through a couple of uh things with you. You have had an opportunity to review both the reports of Mr. Disco and Mr. Mr.
>> Yes. >> And in preparation for today's hearing, you did in fact uh in go out to the site and did a personal site inspection. >> Yes, I did. And you've also reviewed the master plan uh zoning ordinances uh for uh Springfield Township
>> and the statute. Yes. >> And the statute based upon all of your reviews and uh obviously the information that's been supplied to you both through the testimony that you've heard tonight as well as additional information you have. Have you formulated any uh professional opinions relative to this
application? >> I have. And if I may, I'm limited to 10 minutes by Mr. Murman, so I want to be quick and get into all of the topics we need to discuss. Though as you've heard tonight, we have before us a D1 use variance. Typically with respect to D1
use variances, there must be a finding that the site satisfies the special reasons criteria as outlined in the Medici case. This includes a finding that the proposed use will promote the general welfare and that the property is particularly suited for the proposed use. I offer however that our
application is one of those very unique cases that that narrow band of cases that can be classified as an inherently beneficial use. Now the statute specifically defines what an inherently beneficial use is and the courts have further opined on that. Specifically,
these are uses whereby the nature of the use advances the general welfare purposes of zoning and sites because of the very nature of the use. And while not specifically mentioned in this statute, there is actually some case law, the market street mission versus
the board of adjustment of Asbury Park is on point here that where the courts have held that food pantry, food kitchens, these type of uses are in fact inherently beneficial to the community. As you've heard through the testimony, we also are partnering with the
community food bank of um which is one of the largest food banks in the state of New Jersey. I think it is the largest in fact here in uh it's located here in Union County. So clearly there is a need and and and we satisfy the general welfare purpose of zoning simply by the
nature of our use. But with that said with respect to any of these inherently beneficial uses, we must satisfy the negative criteria. And the courts have actually come up with a test known as the SECA balancing test. the the case of SECA versus the board of adjustment of
the township of wall and it requires that the board balance the positive and negative criteria involving these inherently beneficial uses. So I want to go through that very quickly. I know the board probably is well aware of this but the first prong of the seeka balancing test is that we must evaluate the public
interest served by the inherently beneficial use. And in this case, obviously the benefit is the community the, you know, the food insecure population of Union County in the state of New Jersey. And again, as we know, we've talked about the need for this
use. We've talked about various food banks throughout the county. We've talked about other places. And and we all know that there is uh been a severe need for uh these types of facilities unfortunately because of rising food costs and the pressures on families and individuals. So without a doubt there is
clearly a public interest here. And the second is to identify any adverse consequences that would generate from the use. As you've heard, we're not proposing any alterations to the site. We're not changing any of the buildings. We're not
constructing anything new with respect to any of the structures or accessory structures on site. There's going to be no visible appearance of any construction occurring. Um the space as we've heard can accommodate the proposed use without any alterations or changes.
So there's no not going to be any construction disturbance on the site. >> Before you go yes, we did do a handout. >> Yes, we already took care of those handouts. I handed out the aerial of the site and also the Oh, I'm sorry. >> Only because >> Okay, now you go to Jen now.
>> Sorry, Jen. Sorry, Jen. uh only because uh you're getting into uh descriptions and we we have pictures. >> Yes. >> We figured that the board would like some pictures to see what the interiors look like, what the exteriors look like. >> Let's just um
>> describe them and mark them. >> Sure. So, the first handout is is the aerial view. >> Uh Mr. Bergen, I would that be A1 presumably? >> Yes, we'll go with A1. >> A1. whatever number it is. >> Yes.
>> Um at a >> for the record, we're going to mark the aerial view as A1 >> interior street food views, which is a second packet of pictures as A2. >> Yes, the aerial is actually just taken
from Google Earth. It's not um Thank you. >> It's just showing the site. I I know all of you are very familiar with it or have a lot of familiarity with the site, but it gives you an idea of what's going on, where our use is, and and we talked about the the area previously with the
uh prior witness. The second set of photographs are both interior photos of the site and some exterior photos that were taken by um the prior witness. So, they give you an idea of what the space looks like, what their intentions
are. He talked about the commercial kitchen on the site that's shown the I'll call it the auditorium for lack of a better word. You could see um the rear of the I'll call it the uh the parish house where you can see the doors that
will be used. It gives you some idea and flavor of what exactly the site operates like and what it will operate like with this use. Hang on one second, Mr. Sorry. >> Sure. Sure. >> So, >> we have a
>> We're not going to use the parking circ that was up there. I apologize for that one. Throw it out. >> And the reason is is be and I'll and I'll be very frank with you like was questioned earlier. I used all the uses together in that. But since they're now not together, that parking calculation is null and void. >> Okay. Sorry,
>> disregard that if that was on that pile. >> Okay. >> So, um A1 you've already identified. A2 you've identified as photos. A variety of photos. Those photos were not taken by you, but they were taken by Kristen. >> They were taken by Chris. Yes.
>> Okay. Chris, come on up. >> You've previously been sworn. I just want you to state for the record that the uh photos uh that have been submitted as part of A2 uh were actually taken by you and they have not in any way been altered. >> No, I took these pictures last week,
last Thursday, and sent them out. So, no alterations, but yes, I took them. >> And do those pictures accurately reflect the way the property looks at this time? >> Correct. >> Thank you. you >> back to you Mr. Huda.
>> Thank you very much. So you could see exactly that there's there is adequate space for this proposed use in the facilities as they are existing and there will be no additional construction activity related to that. Now we've talked a lot about uh parking and
traffic circulation as you've heard from your board professionals. We've addressed all those issues um through the fact that we are altering the hours and such which will actually lead me to the next prong of the seek balancing test which is that the board must consider any conditions reasonable
conditions which might be imposed to mitigate adverse effects and we've done that. We've looked at some of the ways that we can control the hours by conditioning the hours and limiting them to those Saturdays during those certain hours during the during the day. Similarly, we've noted that the uses
during phase one and two will not be on the same day. So those sorts of um reasonable conditions that can be imposed can and it leads to the fourth prong of the of the seek a balancing test where the board must balance the public
interest in granting the variances versus the the adverse impacts as lessened by the conditions imposed by the board and determine whether on balance there will be a substantial detriment to the public good. if the variance were to be uh were to be granted and only only if the detriment
is substantial can the board deny the variance based on the testimony provided based on what you've heard tonight I believe that the reasonable conditions do address any of the substantial detriments that would be created due to this application and as a result on
balance that the positive criteria the the general welfare um being advanced outweighs any negative impact acts which are mitigated by the conditions imposed by this board. So on balance when you look at the entire application uh as
stated by your professionals it's a very good application. We've worked very hard to ensure that the issues that have been addressed tonight that we've taken and considered that even before coming to the board and preparing an application, preparing a business plan that made sense
and on balance that's why the board can approve the application. >> Thank you. Now, um some of the um conditions that you you've heard tonight and you reiterated are uh the hours of operation.
>> Um you also heard uh some comments um about the limitation to residents of Springfield. You've done some research in in this area case law and the like. Do do you have an opinion with regard to that particular condition?
>> Yeah, I think that might be a little bit too limiting. Um, in my previous life, I was a uh director of community development in uh in a community here in in in New Jersey. Um, there are grant programs that are available, but limiting it like that may be problematic
in getting certain funding. Also, you have an, as I understand, there are a number of the parishioners do not live in town. So, I think there's other other mechanisms that maybe we can use such as um establishing appointment times and only allowing appointment times. That may be a better way of addressing people
coming to the site and actually may be better than simply addressing it as um only for the community, if you will, only the community of Springfield. And certainly if we're accessing food from other sites throughout the county as well, if we're only addressing people in Springfield and we have to deny
everybody else, that might also cause some some problems too in making sure this is a successful operation. But like I said, there's other mechanisms I think that could be employed such as the, you know, if you will, um, registering and making sure that, you know, there's
appointments for people to come to use the site that may be better at mitigating the traffic concerns that the board has rightfully brought up. >> I have no further questions of uh, this witness. >> Thank you.
>> Board members, questions for Mr. Hudac. >> I don't know if this question is for you or not. We Somebody asked a question about garbage and dumpsters and things like that. >> The picture I'm seeing here shows two garbage cans behind a wooden fence. Is
that the setup? >> That is not the full extent of this of the garbage there. There are receptacles within the building. I can call Chris back to tell. >> Okay. I just This picture makes it look >> that's only for for the outdoor storage of of >> Yeah. My understanding too is that this
use as proposed and I I again I've seen in the operation of other food banks like that they're not producing that much garbage. The school probably produces more. That's what I again it's anecotal. That's what I've seen. Uh but like Mr. Murman said that's not the extent of their refuge operation, shall
we say. to pick up anything without >> It's a very tight U-turn. >> Well, the U-turn's on the property itself. So, you would >> You're not turning on the main street. You're not turning. >> No, no, no, they would be going through, if I may. There is a driveway and
actually I drove down it tonight in fact before I came here. There's a driveway on site if you look at the aerial photograph. There's a oneway next to the cemetery >> and then you will use that to go down. It's actually goes into a hollow. Uh that's where you have the the basement
entrance to the Paris house and then you would turn around and go through the uh through the driveway that's along Route 78. >> You identify which picture? Um, it's the aerial the aerial photographer photograph will reflect it the best. >> Yeah.
>> Right. >> You wouldn't be making the U-turn in the street at all. >> I think we got it. If you look at the area, you'll see the U-turn on the property itself. Mhm. >> I understand the concerns of the grants
eliminating food and you want to be community- based. My concern and I think this is something we all talked about is there needs to be some type of limitation and I I feel terrible saying this but otherwise I I do think personally from
experience it's just going to grow exponentially and the street is not going to be able to handle it. The church is not going to be able to handle it. Share alliance isn't going to. You're going to be turning people away. So I think there needs to be some sort of this moves forward like a a plan in
place to help us and if you grow to 20 30 40 great just how do we accommodate all of that >> if I may. So I think that's where you would have a the appointment limitation come in. So instead of saying oh you
because you can have the same problem if it's all Springfield residents as well. So, um I think if you did appointments and staggered them appropriately, you'd only have a limited number of people coming to the site and that information would get out how to do that whether it's online, whether it's a phone or
something, you know, some volunteer. But there there's a I think there's a better way of doing that and accomplishing that goal because I agree with you that's the big major concern is people backing up onto uh the street and the surrounding neighborhood. But I think if you limit it by saying,
"Okay, we'll have three or six people, whatever the number may be, whatever that, you know, whatever that comfort level is, then you're not going to have 100 people backed up on the street." >> No. And I think if you know, your bags are pre-made, they're pre-registered, they're alphetized, whatever it might be, you can handle a flow of traffic,
but I think it needs to be something that is planned. >> Yes, I 100% agree. So you said that there will be appointments, but there was also testimony that if somebody comes who's in need who doesn't have an appointment,
you're still going to give them food. So how does that balance? >> Well, I think and I I don't want to speak on the operations point of it, but I think like I said, and it's something that we can bring them up and and for have that conversation. I'm just saying to the board, if you're looking to impose a condition, be mindful of what
condition you're imposing, so to speak. I'm only making a suggestion. In other words, maybe there's a third way, a better way that the board can come up with that says we can limit this and this is how we, you know, can ensure that the traffic doesn't become a problem in the future. And again, to Mr. Murman's point, if we set that condition
and there is a problem that we see, well, they're going to have to come back here and ultimately they may need to find another location. I I you know, I I can't predict that. Um, in a way, I hope it's not successful only because it means we don't have food insecurity, but we do and we live in that reality. So,
we want to make sure we're servicing the people that need to be serviced at the same time being respectful of the community at large. >> Has sharines ever thought, and I guess this isn't a question for you, of of another property. >> Have you done this anywhere before? >> Sorry,
>> that's okay. You're still under oath. >> Um, you know, we haven't I mean, haven't considered that yet because we haven't even started to see how fast this will grow. Um but I do think because this is already such a conglomerate that it
gives it much more option to do that. Um if there's that much need and we get that much buyin from the community itself that we could if we had to move it to some other location you know if we had to do that then that's you know we're serving that many more people and
we find a way to make that happen. um where that would be I don't I don't know but um you know if if if we would get that you know if we didn't need that that would be fantastic but if you know 15 years down the road that's something
that needs to be done well then we've done our work well and you know people feel safe and feel that they can get help where they need it. >> I think one option could be also limiting it to within the county potentially. I don't know how that
affects the grant purpose for >> I I that that would be and and and unfortunately Mr. Bergen and I have way too much knowledge of grant programs, but that that would be a much more um broad statement and it would probably be
better in line with the funding sources um because uh the service area would include Union County obviously that would be everybody in Union County. So, I I don't think that's as as great a um restriction as just limiting to
Springfield residents. The other problem, too, and I did discuss this with my clients while we were we took the break, and we're we're thinking about these restrictions and limitations. We're restricted to uh only people who live in Springfield. we're actually knocking out um parishioners
from this particular uh uh church as well as potentially not being able to serve uh some of our other partners uh in the share alliance uh if uh one of their uh parishioners uh might need uh the services as well. So uh while we
certainly respect restrictions and and I certainly uh believe that time uh restrictions are important uh we certainly can uh talk about a restriction number of uh patrons during th those hours of how many we can
anticipate. Um, it would not be uh the desire of sher to turn anyone away. That's kind of against the mission statement, which is why I believe that the statements have been made. If somebody didn't registered, we would still want to give them food that day.
Um, and you know, a one-time exception that they didn't register and we had enough food obviously, but that's going to be the exception more than the rule. And one of the things that was extremely uh tedious to us in the in the
preparation uh was trying to deal precisely with this. We we recognize uh what the nuisances were going to be, right? And so the proposal eliminates as many of those nuisances as as we can and the potential for those. So if the
limitation is from this board no more than 50 cars to be served in a 4-hour period, we certainly can understand that and can abide by it. If we find, however, that uh the need is greater, we can come back and we can come back and we can say, "Okay, we're going to need
to do this on Thursday nights for another two hours." we'd be able to try to figure out a way to serve the community and the without overburdening the lot and the area um by bringing in
200 people at a time. That that's not the goal of this organization. It would be nice if they could needed to turn people away and we'd have to come back and figure out another way to do this. U but for now again, nobody's got a crystal ball. That's our problem. I'd
love to have a crystal ball. I would have retired yours. It just seems to me that for the limited the numbers that you're given that you've given us um for and maybe not the kitchen but for at
least the shopping the stage one, stage two, stage three for that small amount to not be able to li limit it to this community and expand it to Union County. It seems to me like we would run into an issue that we're trying to avoid which
would be like a detriment to the community with more cars, people who you can't turn away, more traffic in that area. So, um I think that instead of the board coming up with all of the
conditions that we would like to place on your timing, your dates, um I can run through a litany of list of of the list, the litany of things that we've talked about tonight, but the type of trucks, the no refrigerated trucks, how you'll
accommodate um people on the website, how you'll deal with registration on the website, how you'll deal with registration per hour, how you'll how um how your phases will be dealt with, what dates they would be on, meaning I know that they would be Saturdays, but um
phase one would be the first Saturday, phase two would be the third Saturday, whatever it would be. I would like to see that in an operations I don't know if it's a manual or some sort of um operations uh documentation
to us so that we can review it and make our decision based on that. >> I have no issue with that, Madam Chairwoman. In in fact, as we sit here and and some of you do know that I'm a former board of adjustment attorney myself, and it's always a lot easier
when I wrote a resolution that uh the parties uh with the staff uh work through these issues. So given an opportunity to develop a more specific plan, uh I would like to work with both Mr. Disco and Mr. Mreda and we can put
that together and we will be ready to present that at the board's next meeting. Excellent. Thank you. Um, we do have members of the public though who have been patiently waiting and I think while you're working, while you do you take that into consideration and you'll come back with something, we should take
into consideration everything that they would like to put on the record as well. So, >> and we and we welcome the comments and certainly if there's anything that would relate to what we're talking about, we're going to make those notes and when we come back, they'll be incorporated
into the plan. >> Thank you. All right. So, first we're gonna Yeah. I'm Yes. Um, well, I'm going to turn to our uh professionals first if you have any questions for uh the planner, Mr. Hudach. Okay. Um members of the public with
questions for the planner questions based on the testimony that was presented by Mr. Huda. >> None. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Anything else before I open it up to public comment?
>> Um I'm going to reserve my right to summation until our next hearing so that we can public comments and whatever there call it a document. I don't like the
idea document that we'll submit in conjunction with the discussion but I do welcome the the public's comment. I also um believe that by opening up to the public right now it's
going to make it a lot easier uh next time around so that you would have to worry about another hour and a half. >> Thank you. Okay. Uh members of the public that wish to speak will come up one at a time. We'll swear you in and you can
make your comments. So yes, please come forward. Madame Chairwoman, can I just please remind the public to please speak into the microphone? >> Uh, yes. >> Thank you. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth?
>> I do. >> Please state your full name, spell your last name, and give us your home address. >> Natalie D A W K I Ns Dawkins 10 Forest Drive. Uh so I just wanted to comment because
it from based on the comments from some of the board members there seems to be um just a lack of knowledge or unfamiliarity with food pantries and I'm want to give a background. I'm coming from a place of extensive knowledge. I worked with city tribe uh in Elizabeth
at the food pantry. It was a pantry situation where you would come in and get you you choose what you'd like and it was orderly in a line type situation. I did translations with the um registration process there. Uh my husband and I are also familiar with the
founders of um the relief bus which is a literal bus that gives soup and bread in all five burrows, Elizabeth and Newark. Uh Jewish family services and um Summit YMCA which also services Springfield uh
because Springfield doesn't have anything. And my case and point that I want to bring to you is one in Cranford, not Cranford Cares. It's called uh Faith Baptist Church. And it's located in a place that is right in between North and
South Parkway exit entrances. And uh it's in the middle of a where you have Lynden one way, Clark another way, Roselle one way, and Cranford the other way. So there is a lot of traffic there. It is a small church. uh second and
fourth Saturdays they have a um food pantry from uh 12 pm to 3 pm and it's has frequent visitors. But here's the thing with people who have food insecurity. A lot of them don't have cars. So you're thinking about like you
know all these people have cars to come and get this food. Um, many times it's a situation where and it's it's I'll I'll use this church in particular because they have six to eight, if you're including illegal parking, six to eight
parking uh spots, less parking spaces in their church, more on the street. Um, six to eight. So half of what the little amount of parking that you have say or in comparison to them that's double at First Presbyterian. So, uh, you see
people come in and those that do have a car park, those that walk up or in our situation right in Springfield, it would be a bus that they would take in to get here and they go down a stairs to where the pantry is. There's a room for uh,
shelf life food and there's a room for perishables like produce and such, meats, frozen meats and milk sometimes. And there are people, let's say, uh, 7 to 10 people at any given time that are volunteering. There's a registration desk when you first walk
in. So, you don't have to pre-register. They register. Um, there's three sheets of paper that come from the state of New Jersey and in some cases the the county there different regulations and what you need to provide. How many people are in your household? What is your address? What is your name? Those are basic
things. So, they fill that out. They go down the line. They go their number, they get a little number, their number's called, they go into the pantry and there are people there saying like to your point, you know, different families have different needs. Do you want some rice? Yes. You want this? Yes. Boom,
boom, boom, boom. They put it in a bag, they're on their merry way. So, it's it's very very efficiently run. It doesn't cause any sort of um stall of traffic or lines wrapped around the building. I think at any given time
there are maybe top uh 20 people that are going through this process at once. Then those 20 people are gone and another 20 people are in and then they're gone. And this is in a period of 3 hours and I've never seen them run out of food. But you know in the case that um they do get grants for
spec specific things and they're open to Union County. So it there are some cases where like Salvation Army in Elizabeth, you're limited to Elizabeth, but in this case it's a Union County thing. In some YMCA's case, it's a you know,
Springfield as well thing. So it's not I wouldn't say that it's common to um a just be specific to your town. there's a lot of union um county based ones in different counties in New Jersey and also very rarely are the majority um
needing wheelchairs but of course if need be you can make that work but it's more so on foot um so the efficiency is what I want to speak to that it is a possible thing with this space that you're working with and I would say that
uh first Presbyterian church has a lot more space to work with than um faith Baptist Church in Cranford. So that's my point that I've seen it work. I've seen it in action and uh I've seen it successful and it's been going on to my knowledge at least as far as I know
at least two years. I probably more but going on now for two years. Um so yeah, that's all I want to have to say. Yes, people in Springfield need it. Um, but being that the mission statement that was read and what community means, I
believe that that reaches out to anybody who's hungry or whose children need food or, you know, run the gamut. Um, not based on religion in particular, race in particular, demographic in particular, just people that need help. Um, and I
believe that that's what my familiar familiarity with Sher Alliance wants to do. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Yes. >> Hi. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> I do. >> Please state your full name, spell your last name, give us your home address.
>> I'm Rachel Goldberg. Uh, R A C H E L G O L D B E R G. I serve as a superintendent of schools here in Springfield and I'm going to give my work address for that reason. uh 139 Mountain Avenue. Thank
you. Um so I'm here uh as I said in the position of superintendent of schools. I wanted to provide um some points that that may be helpful for the board in its knowledge as you're considering this. The first is just a firm data point. Last year on June 30th, I actually
pulled up this data tonight to make sure that um that I was tight with it as we like to say. Um in June 30th we had 2,234 students registered to attend Springfield public schools. Of those 377
um identified as requiring free or reduced price lunch. So as we're establishing a point of need in Springfield itself, that's a data point that might be helpful. Keep in mind those are only children between the ages of four and uh 17. And so you can take
that number, you can imagine another child in the household and or family members to think about what level of need we're looking at for families that might be insecure in Springfield. So just as a kind of point of reference there, this next piece is actually very
specific experience that speaks to some of the questions that you offered this evening, which is um in uh 2020 and 2021. Um, so I I think it was starting in um September of 2020 through the
spring of 2021, uh, Jonathan Dayton High School was actually a site for picking up food uh food groups or food packages with the Summit YMCA. Um, and we actually did it while school was even in
session. It happened um two Wednesdays a month. It happened between 9 and 11 a.m. and it was a very um I would say a very tight process. Uh we had the food was brought in pallets on the truck. A truck
was parked in the back of our parking lot. Uh a limited group of people received notification by Summit of the availability of the food. They came in their cars. It was literally loaded in the cars and they drove off. Um, we did
not at any point in time throughout that process have an issue with uh too many cars, with an traffic blocking the parking lot, with people that weren't registered. We did not have people on foot. Um, I don't know if the directions
from the summit uh uh YMCA to their list that they were serving was specific to say you can't be served on foot, but it was a very um clear and tight operation. I say that to say having watched that happen in Jonathan Dayton High School's parking lot which is just across the
way. We have a good parking lot. There was a very good process but there's also a lot of knowledge in this community. So when we look at Summit when we look at uh the the food bank the community food bank of New Jersey there's expertise on how to make these processes tight and
clear. I'm going to also note something that I think is also really important that was said earlier um is is that it sounds to me at least from my perspective that the board has asked for some limitations that may be limiting the scope that that uh share alliance
can serve. Um I had the opportunity to um meet and work with a lot of the folks that sit on the share alliance two years ago when this conversation was started. I had the opportunity to tour the facility as it was being renovated. Um, I also have previously worked in other
communities that are very diverse and I can speak to the need of uh families that are food insecure extend to families that keep kosher, to families that keep halal, that families that have specialized um specialized needs. And having a food pantry that recognizes
that for the full community is really important. If we can allow for some of that variation in their plans to allow to serve all of Springfield effectively, I think that would really go towards what Springfield is. Um I'm proud to say I was just speaking um to one of uh the
members of the Sher Alliance tonight that Springfield public schools is actually a microcosm of the state of New Jersey. When you look at our demographics, we look just like the state of New Jersey. Whether it is the fact that we're about uh eight we're getting close to 18% we're between 15
and 17% free and reduced lunch. Those are families with economic instability. We have uh a a diverse group of families across the line in terms of um uh uh gender and race and and religion. And um
it's something that makes Springfield special. Uh it really does. And I think um the the people that have spoken here and the ones I've had the opportunity in the communities of faith I've had the opportunity to meet with um during my time in Springfield has just um exemplified all that Springfield does.
Um in Springfield public schools, our students every year do large um drives to raise uh raise awareness for food insecurity. Our students did a domino of cereal boxes throughout Caldwell School. It was extraordinary. um pounds and
pounds of uh of um of food are donated by our middle schoolers and our high schoolers. We have um all of our high schoolers are required to do volunteer work and all of this is a part of the spirit of Springfield. And so um however we can support um providing this I I
think is a great resource for uh Springfield as a whole. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Come on up. >> Okay. My first go ahead. >> Yeah. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> Yes. >> Again, please state your name, spell
your last name, and give us your >> First name is Carol. C A R O L. Last name is Kaiser. K A I S E. Now, I've heard the board speak this evening. Um, I'm not going to comment on the planners
because they did a great job. Now, a lot of you mentioned serving Springfield. I've lived in Springfield for gosh over 40 years and we are becoming a different town
over the years. Now you have the big buildings as you mentioned that are being built. Now according to what I know of New Jersey, they have to provide uh lowincome and moderate income
apartments available to the public. Now, there's going to be a lot of those residents who need a food bank, and it's going to be helpful for them to come to Springfield and say, "Look what
Springfield is doing for us. Look what Sher is doing for us. Look what Springfield's government is doing for us." And it it's just going to be a nice feeling for these people moving in. And
I'm sure the board knows this. So people are aware in Springfield residents. I don't I said the board probably knows this too who are lowcome fam lowincome families and they do not
have the money to buy food. And I've spoken to many people in Springfield about this and they do want the pantry. So please let's work together with share
with our planners to get this done because Springfields is a wonderful community. It always has been. The demogra uh demographics are changing. So let's change with them and give it sincere consideration. Thank
you. >> Thank you very much. >> Hello. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> Thank you. Your name? >> Mark. >> And your address? >> Ginsburg. G I NB RG. and my uh office
address is 820 Mars Turnpike in Short Hills. Good evening. So uh I am one of the principles of Patriots Way which is the uh which the garden apartments which are currently under construction. We are
across the street from the church. Uh we think we're a good neighbor and certainly the church over the years they've been wonderful neighbors. Um at the same time I wear another hat over here. I have been a volunteer and a member uh of the board for Jewish family
services uh in Elizabeth for some of you who are familiar with Jewish family services and uh we have we happen to have and I've been on it for approximately 25 years. I've worked the food pantry as a volunteer amongst um among many of the other things that I've
done there. And um we serve approximately 1,500 to 2,000 people a month walking up for food and it's open to all residents of Union County. And um
once the word has been out to the public over the years, I will tell you that they come there via Uber, they come there via bicycle, they come there uh obviously driving their cars, they come there taking a bus, some of them even
take taxis. Um and it's fine as far as um uh traffic is concerned. I mean on on some days they double park on Westfield Avenue. Uh but again that that's a problem unique to the situation that exists over there. My point uh that I
would like to make is is that uh we feel very strongly that u I'd like to urge this board to in their decision that they restricted for now just to the residents of Springfield. As this nice woman just spoke a few moments ago. Um
there's plenty of families within Springfield uh that Certainly food insecurity is a is is a is a major is a major issue to be dealing with and I can tell you as I said I'm not an expert but from experience that uh when the word
gets out that there's a food pantry they're going to people will be coming from all over and it's it's listen we don't want we don't want to say no to anybody uh at at Jewish Family Services uh we uh policy there is you can come once every two weeks and what do you do
when somebody comes and you know they come a week later, it's it's hard to say no. Sometimes you have to if they're if if they do it consistently, but we generally we try not to turn anybody away over there. So my only message to this board is is that if you know if we
could uh at this point uh leave it open to residents of of Springfield and and and maybe even you know as it was pointed out before that uh you know there are a lot of church members that don't belong to the that don't live in Springfield. Well, then then you could
say either be a member of spring live in spring Springfield springfield resident and at the same time if you're a member of the church that that is possibly an alternative and member of the church or any other affiliated churches with this particular
church. I certainly would would be an alternative, but it would also help because uh I think having a lot of people and and and one of the other issues that we deal with uh is is that while the food pantry in Elizabeth may open at um 10:00, there's people waiting
out there at 8:30. So that's something that I think uh uh the board should take into consideration too that if uh the hours of operation that uh people would not be allowed to congregate there much uh sooner than the
hours of operation. I thank you. >> Thank you very much. [Music] Good evening. >> Good evening, Mr. Bergen. >> Do you swear affirm to tell the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you. Your name and address, please.
>> My name is Omar Dawkins, D AW Kins, 10 Forest Drive, Springfield. Uh, a couple of points were raised by the board and um I want to congratulate the the proposal that was put together. I think it was very thorough. Um I have a unique
perspective because I've been to many uh food pantries as a recipient. There are a couple things that we should know about food pantries. The very nature of them is that there's a need I.e. food is available. When food is not available,
there are no people. If you say we will start at one and you say nobody comes before one, the word gets out. They do that because when people are in need especially of food, they are the most uh cohesive, the most
uh manageable people that you will find. The the the incidents that were raised before were incidents that were run during COVID and by the governmental organizations, but they're very separate from what Share Alliance and these experienced people are proposing and
I've seen it all over. Um, another thing was raised with regards to garbage. When people go up for food, if you say to that person, um, don't park on this side, they don't park there. When people are leaving, they make sure they clean
up because they care. There's another benefit that, um, the the planner talked about that that I don't think was it was kind of nuanced. In the last couple of weeks, we've had a number of flooding
events that have uh affected beyond the community borders. We've had rainfall from mountain side going down on 22 and affecting those below 22. Food is kind of a similar
event. You cannot restrict it to one area because the long the farreaching effects of communities is by nature outside of your of your of your community. So the benefit will be also outside of your community. Um some of
you may have remembered when we had um the power cuts after the storm and gas was limited and people came from all over. When you have a food a place where people come normally for food, there's an inherent respect that's generated for that community.
And there I suggest a nurture and a love for that community because people find sustenance there and that's uh intangible benefit that you will gain. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Any other member of the public wish to
speak? You swear or felt the truth. You swear or affirm to tell the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. State your name, please, and address. >> Andrea Blair, B L A I R, co-president of Share Alliance, 37 Church Mall. Um,
we've heard a lot of people today, and I thank everybody for all their comments. I do want to say that in my spirit I do not feel comfortable about leaving it just to the Springfield residents because basically our mission states is for everyone and I don't want
to turn anybody away. I do say that we can have where it is an appointment as we had put out it is what being appointment times one to four we make sure this many going this time this coming that time unfortunately I've been a recipient of such me and my family we
were burned out of our home here in Springfield and two years ago three years ago and Springfield rallied around us and they gave us food and they helped us he gave us shelter I would hate to think and on that end we had to go out to other places, too. We
had to go to food banks to get stuff. We lived in a hotel for 3 months and we had to go get food. And the apprehension that came in was when you would go and someone asked you, "Where do you live? Where do you live?" Right? So, where do
I live? Well, I live in a hotel. Well, you don't live in Elizabeth, so I can't give you food. But that's not what happened. They didn't care about that part. They didn't turn me away. But apprehension comes when you ask that person that information because they
think they need to live there. So then they don't come right. But then in this in your current town where you are where we're here during COVID and after CO because I was also a part of Springfield Unity Project, we helped people during
that time. We collaborated with Antioch Baptist Church and people would bring food. Pastor Hobbs will call and say someone's in need of food, but they don't want to tell you, you know, their name, but I'll talk to them, get their name, go take them food. A lot of
people, they working, just families working, but they didn't have food. So, if Springfield had a food bank and we just took their information, they were just taking it, but saying that um it's okay.
they won't feel so apprehensive maybe if it's right in their town. So maybe if we make them feel comfortable and not be so concerned about, well, are you from Springfield? Because when you're talking about limited to Springfield, you do have to ask those important questions,
right? And then you're going to have to ask them for ID about who they are. That's when the apprehension comes in. If you're just asking, as we do it for our records to keep to know who's coming, yes, that's fine. But when you start asking for proof of where you live because if you're trying to keep it
limited to Springfield, that's what you're going to have to do. Apprehension's going to come in and then they're going to stop coming. I don't think that's what any of us would want here. Grace doesn't do that either. I, you know, I believe that that they open up to everyone as well. So, I just think
that's something else I hope that you guys think about and think about the whole process and how good it would be for our entire community. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> I do.
>> Thank you. State your name and address for the record. >> My name is Anthony Maro. M O. Um I had the good fortune of being in front of you all a couple of months ago. I am the president CEO of uh the Atlantic Federal Credit Union headquartered here in
Springfield. Um we are a nonprofit entity as we explained uh at that time. We involve ourselves in many nonprofit endeavors particularly in food and security. The
credit union does. We provide what we can in the terms of volunteer hours, donations monetarily or through our staff in providing you also food collections. And this is near and dear to our hearts
because we see the food insecurity in the communities that we serve. For us, it's Union and Essex County. I can tell you we have partnered with Share Alliance for a couple years now. Um, we also work with uh St. Joe's and
Elizabeth uh some other institutions and organizations in uh Newark. Uh we've even done work with Milbourne Food Bank. I was amazed to find that there's a food bank at Milbour. What I've learned in all my experiences
with those organizations is the amount of effort and work that they put in to meet all the conditions put in front of them and ensure that they play by the rules in order to
support the communities that they serve. And I'm amazed by that and it moves me because the good work that they do and that passion for people is amazing. And we've talked a lot about the
conditions or the things that we need them to do in order to approve it. And they'll work. I've seen it. All those organizations work in those constructs that they're required to work in. and
they are excellent in the logistics of their volunteers in order to ensure that they've met the conditions put in front of them. So I would say to you my observation with those entities, I've seen them all
work together hard to play by the rules and I believe strongly that Share Alliance will because I've seen it with the others in order to ensure that they help the people in their communities. I'll just leave you with that. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much. You swear affirm to tell the truth. I >> do. >> Thank you. Please state your name and address. >> My name is Jeff Marqu, 48 Elmwood Avenue. 30 years ago, I was the pastor at the United Methodist
Church here in Springfield. And I have immensely fond memories of serving in this town, working as the chaplain to the fire department for many years, working with other clergy, um,
Rabbi Perry Rank, Rabbi Josh Goldstein, Rabbi Mark Malik, Father Bob Stag, Reverend Jeff Curtis at the Presbyterian Church, Reverend Chuck Hail at the Presbyterian Church, Reverend Alustin at Antioch
Baptist and I have um a sense that that interfaith community continues to support one another here and that is a beacon of light to the world. So you have something special here in Springfield.
Uh I'm now pastor at the United Methodist Church in Chadam. And for the last five years, we have run a food pantry and a food distribution. And what I haven't heard here that I want to share as a word of encouragement
is the immense benefit to a community that feeds hungry people. We have been so um blessed to work with every school in
Chadam, every worshshiping community in Chadam, probably 70 or 80% of the businesses in Chadam, every scout troop, sports team have all
partnered in raising funds and collecting food for hungry people. We have seen children of every age find agency and self-confidence
in their effort to collect food for hungry people. I don't know who benefits more those who are giving the food and collecting the food or receiving the food. But it is a mutual blessing.
In the Judeo-Christian ethic that we are trying to practice, we don't ask where people are from. If they are hungry, we want to feed them. I encourage you to support this effort.
It will be a gift to the whole community of Springfield. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you. State your name and address,
please. >> My name is Reginald Harris. H A R R I S. My address is 58 Battle Hill Avenue, Springfield. Um, I'm also a member of the Share Alliance and um, I come to address one question.
The question you asked first was what is community? Um, one of the things that Christ himself asked was who is my neighbor? And when we think about that scenario in which he presented that question, it was
in concern to a person who was being passed by on the side of the road after having been accosted. The first person that passed him by was someone of the clergy.
The next very similarly, and then finally, someone who is actually outside of a community that would even associate with that individual. And he was a Samaritan.
And when we see what he did, he stopped to bandage the wounds of that individual and he gave him a safe place that he might be uh made well.
We have come together not only as uh individuals but we've come together also as different organizations within this community to try to address a need that we see has been great. Um
we are also initially got our a part of our support from the Springfield Interfaith Clergy Association which included two of the pastor uh the the rabbis from synagogues here in this
community. Neither of which unfortunately are still in those capacities today. But they were in strong support of what we are trying to do. Um, ultimately it's been said that
our mission as believers in the Lord is to feed those who are in need. It's been disheartening for me because I and my son, we manage the website for
Share Alliance. So, we've been asked to take the site down because when there were when we initially came before the board, we started getting traction because word
got out and it seemed then we were being accused of operating against the mandate which said we shouldn't because we did not have this uh permission.
Um, but I still man the calls. I still man the emails. I still man all of the requests that come online. Um, I wasn't able to write them all down today because they they are more
extensive than what is just listed here. But there are calls that come from within this very community that we live in, that we work in, that we serve in
that stand in deep need. And unfortunately many times I believe it goes overlooked because when you go to um sites which quote that you know
Springfield's median income is $177,000. When you see that um the average income in this city is $86,000. You think that there's no need. But clearly um Sister Rachel came and gave a
testimony of how many of even our youth that might be suffering. We tried to partner with her just to cover the months that the students aren't even in school because they get fed when they're in school,
but they don't when they're not. And we have to feed these young minds because they'll be the ones that replace us sit in your seats one day as well prayerfully if they survive.
But what we notice is that there is a growing need and it that need is even within our own community and we want to be able to address that. But not only just from the need side. When we consider
all the calls that we also get from those who want to make donations, but I have had to call and turn away. All those who also have wanted to volunteer,
but I have to address myself personally to say no to. That's one of the things that continues to trouble me as a human being. And it doesn't
really serve me well to have to tell them no. But that's unfortunately the position we've been placed in because we want to work in collaboration with this community.
We've struggled hard not to upset any member on this board. We've gone through great lengths to even secure new legal help because of
pass and discretions on part persons because we did not want to alienate anyone within this community. Um, we even thought of con leaving this community
to make room for new families to come here, you know, but we found a place here and it's hard to it's hard to want to go and we came on the recommendation of someone who was
uh very fond of being here and that is what drove drove us and our family to come to Springfield. I've had five children to pass through the Springfield school system.
My uh one son is I work in other communities to build community fridges and to give public access to people who need food. at the same time build skills for those
same students so that they can also build careers for themselves. At the same time, it's unfortunate that perhaps those resources aren't aren't available in the
same place we live. We want to expand our reach to those who are hurting, those people that are needy. And that is truly our effort. That's our
goal. That's our desire. That is our purpose. And we really would love to have you guys be on board with that wholeheartedly to help us serve in that mission.
probably many of your own children have helped with the the the Springfield Unity Project when Sister Rachel talked about all of the students that actually have to give of their time. My children had to put in hours.
When we worked in conjunction with them just for one project, we had more than 40 of the high school students alone come out because they saw it as meaningful. In our own church, one of the issues
that we have is trying to be relevant to our youth. Our youth don't see us as relevant because they believe that we're not doing anything. They want to hit the ground running. They want to have their hands on the
plow. They want to move forward and they have a different purpose in mind. As a former officer of 25 years, I can understand, you know, fully the desire to make sure
that our community is safe. I wanted to protect my children at all costs. And I'm was ever vigilant about doing so. I'm not deterred in that way in any
respect. I still like I still want to make sure those around me are safe. We took all of those things into consideration when we were building out this plan as much as possible
and we will definitely make sure that we're doing everything that we can to make sure that this community stays a good community. But part of being labeled good, which Christ Jesus himself didn't even
consider himself to be is that we do ultimately what we are purposed here for and that is to serve one another. The greatest to command is love God with all your heart, mind,
body, soul. I say body, that's not in scripture. and strength, but to also love your neighbor as yourself. If we can't love love that neighbor,
that person who is part of our community, even when that community seems to extend beyond our our our designated borders, are we really loving? Now, we were a couple of different
things. We all had to go to different community kitchens and see how they operated. How do these pantries operate? I went up to Grace several times, not only in an effort to share all that we could no longer give out. So all of the
collections that we made, we took to Grace. And one of the things that we wanted to do was collaborate with them to make sure that any of the residents here in Springfield would be directed to us once we get certified to do the work.
So some actually already heard of us. So those were some of the calls that I actually had to turn away. But one of the things the grace does do is they did make it for their residence. And for those one for the times that those persons come that aren't
registered with them and they don't have their their identification card that they actually gave out to each resident, one of the things they do is they have a person there that helps them to find resources in their community. Now, one
of the things that has happened since we began this project is that Union County has joined the coalition with the state in order to make sure that food insecurity is something that is addressed. Now, as a result of doing that, they
know that they had to try to designate which areas needed the most help. One of them was Elizabeth, which this young man just spoke about. And Elizabeth heat, as he so rightly stated, was also one of the most
affected areas that need food security to be addressed. So, we have greater residents there in that community that definitely need to be helped. And I understand your concern. If they
can't get it there, they'll be driven here. One of the things that we tried to do with the website was try to tailor it so that we could layer those times that people come. And then again, in the in the first
effort that we had in in handing out food that was with a different organization, we managed it very well. In fact, we invited people from the board to join us at that time.
but just to see how things would run. Our hope, our sincere hope is that we get approved so that we can do the work that we've been assigned to do.
And we again our other sincere hope is to be able to work in conjunction with you guys so that we don't burn a bridge.
We on even though upon your recommend recommendation the very first time we took a back seat to do it your way and that's why we want to work within the confines of how the legal this this process goes. I'm not sure I can call it
the legal system but this how this process goes. That's why we've been laboring for two years. You don't want to give up because the situation hasn't really changed for many
families that are still hurting. Um I the Bible says that out of the abundance of a person's heart, the mouth speaketh. I don't want to be more long-winded than
that. So I'm just going to say thank you. Good night. And um thank you for hearing our deep concern tonight. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
Based upon the circumstances, based upon the discussions that we've had, we are at this time asking that this uh be carried uh to your next meeting uh with no new notice. >> Uh Madame Chair, you would need a motion to adjourn this matter to September 16,
2025, 6 p.m. in this location without new notice. Anyone in the audience? There will be no new notice, but the matter will be carried to our next meeting. Upon the motion passing, >> I'll make the motion. >> Thank you. Second. >> I'll second. >> Thank you,
>> Mr. Sheitz. >> Yes. >> Miss Dodson, >> yes. >> Mr. Hawkstein, >> yes. >> Mr. Wex, >> yes. >> Mr. Fchenbound, >> yes. >> Miss Naperano, >> and Cher Cohen, >> yes. >> Motion passes. >> Thank you. We'll see you on September 16th.
>> The bells are Uh, any other business this evening? Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> Thank you very much for your time.