Okay, good evening everyone. The time is 609. This is the Township of Springfield Board of Adjustment meeting for December 17, 2025. Adequate notice was given. Adequate notice of the meeting was given in accordance with the Sunshine Law. Notice was published on October 23rd,
2025 in the local source, which is one of the official newspapers for the township of Springfield. uh for 2025. It was also posted in the annex building on October 24th, 2025. We will stand to please salute the flag to the flag
of the stands one. >> Thank you. Can we please have the roll call? >> Mr. Steven Hawkstein >> here. >> Mr. Michael Wex >> here. >> Mr. Steven Burenbound.
>> Miss Marlon Apparano >> here. >> Mr. Peter Sheitz >> here. >> Miss Anika Dodson >> here. >> Mr. Randy Pearlman, Vice Chair Mark Cunningham >> here, >> and Chairwoman Jodie Cohen >> here. >> We have a quorum. >> Thank you very much. Okay, we're going
to move right into the applications this evening. So, um, the first application that we're calling back is application 2025-24 for 33 Highland Avenue, Highlands Avenue, block 3207, lot 7. This was a request for lot
coverage and rear yard setback variances to install a pool and we have a the applicants and a revised site plan. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Okay, so we're we're gonna we're going to swear you in again. No worries.
>> Welcome back. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> Yes. >> Uh, applicant, state your name. Spell your last name. Give us your home address. >> Andrea Praau.
Spell the last name. You said P R A D O2 Oliver Street in Raw, >> thank you. >> John Bernardo, J O H N, last name B E R N A R D O. And this is a property owner. We had
>> the Spanish. You can swear in his name. >> Does he Does he speak English? >> No, he only speaks Spanish. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You want me to say the address? >> We last time we were here, we said we could speak on his behalf and we'll explain everything to him like we were last. >> That's fine.
>> Okay. Are we good? Okay, great. Um, all right. So, we asked you to go back and look at the placement of the pool. We see that you have a revised site plan. So, if you want to just come speak to us and present what you have. Is this different than what we have already in the file? I
think we sent >> Oh, you sent it. You already sent We sent it to >> to to the board secretary. Yeah. So, we have that. >> And then the only other thing that we have is when they bought the house, we have the the original land survey which has the original pool and it kind of shows where the original pool was.
>> Oh, okay. That's helpful. Was the survey in the in the previous >> No, we we found it recent. >> Okay. So, we're going to mark that. >> If you could bring that up, we'll mark that as part of the record. >> Yeah. So, when they bought the 87. >> Okay. So, that'll be applicants one.
>> Is in the same spot. >> A little bit bigger. So, what are the revisions that we're looking at? >> We basically were just trying to place the pool further away from the neighbor's house. And that was originally the plan we had, but when we spoke to the zoning, he had recommended
us move it for we don't know what reason. So, so we went back to the engineering company and they moved the pool back to what the original plan was and then we were able to find that um land survey from the original pool which kind of shows where the pool is going to probably be in the same vicinity where it was originally.
>> You guys wanted the house parallel to the house. >> Exactly. >> You guys wanted us to move the equipment pad. >> Yeah. So, we moved it so where it would be further away from both. >> Yep.
>> And then with this orientation though, didn't we say that there would be a need for an additional >> front yard >> relief for the for having it in the front yard? Correct. Okay. Thank you. >> Madam Chair, I did confirm with the zoning officer. The zoning officer theorized that he probably told them the
other alignment to avoid the front yard setback. So >> that understood. >> All makes sense. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any questions from the board? Did everyone have an opportunity to look at the review of the survey? >> Great. >> Yep. >> How far is it? I'm sorry.
>> Your mic's not on. >> Now it goes. Yeah. The prop the pool. How far is it going to be from your neighbor's property again? What is that? Here's the pool. Here's >> 8.9 ft.
>> How far is that going to How far is the pool going to be from the property to the I guess roughly the to the west? >> 8.9 ft. >> 8.9 ft.
>> And a set. What's the setback? What should setback be? >> It was a 15t set. >> Yeah, that's what he said. Okay. >> So, we're going to be considerably into that setback. >> It's a lot further than it was. We ask
>> um and then the only thing is it looks like you're adding as part of this a front yard setback request because now just have >> Well, essentially that's what it was originally and then >> right on the record that >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I apologize.
>> East. >> Okay. Any other questions from the board? Okay. Um, anyone uh from the public have any questions on the application? Anyone from the public wish to speak
regarding this application? Okay. Well, I'm in favor of granting the relief. I'm I'm satisfied with this. I think that the placement is is better than it was before. So, appreciate that you went back to take a look at this and um and revamp the plan and move the
equipment. So, um I would be in favor of granting the relief that's being requested this evening. If anyone is in a agreement, Bruce, you want to add that we're adding the >> Yeah, I just um Mike, there there is a mitigation plan that was submitted.
Drainage has been submitted and >> Okay. So, the condition will be that they comply with the plan. >> Perfect. >> I'll move to approve. >> Mr. Hawkstein. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Cunningham. Yes,
>> Mr. Wexeen. >> Yes, >> Miss Naperano. >> Yes, >> Mr. Sheitz. >> Yes, >> Miss Dodson. >> Yes. >> And Cohen. >> Yes. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Good luck. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.
>> We had one question. Sorry, we can. Um, there's like an area that it was like a patio that's like a little lifted. We wanted to take that out. We have to do like through um >> Yeah, if you're removing it. >> No, it would just
>> There's no change in the footprint. >> No, no, it's just removing. >> Yeah. Nope. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Okay. Um All right. The next application I'm going to call is um application 2025-2360
Hawthorne Avenue, block 1203, lot 17. >> Hello again. >> How are you? >> Swear you in both going to testify. Okay. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth?
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Please state your full name, spell your last name, give your home address. >> Nicholas Djidio. D E G I D I O 60 Horththornne Avenue, Springfield, New Jersey.
>> Sheila Dejidio. D E G I D I O >> 60 Horn. >> Hi, good evening. How are you? Good. >> Um, okay. Do you want to just like refresh the board with the request and then the changes? >> So, I'm looking for um for the the front
of the house, the front yard setback. >> Mhm. >> I'm looking to do a I guess it would be like a portico roof. So, the relief I'm looking for I think is about 6 in to go past the setback. And also for the backyard, the patio.
So I'm over the about coverage. You have any drawings of what you're doing in the back because it's right you just to just understand this. You have a covered front entry and you want to enclose it. You're not making it any bigger. You're just enclosing the
covered front entry. >> Yeah. Do you have the I don't know if you guys have the architectural plans. No. >> No. I bring it up. You can't draw. >> You want to mark this? >> Is this in?
>> No. >> Not that'll be a lot more helpful because we don't have that. >> I thought I thought I submitted those with the >> Can you just explain the It's a >> So for the >> four page document what you just handed me, what is this?
It's the architectural drawing which I'm going to for the front door area. I'm going to make an enclosure over the overhang and bringing the enclosure. Bringing the front door out closer to the front of the house because right now the door is set back about 5T.
So I'm going to bring the front door out, make an enclosure I guess like um an entryway like a mud room. And over the front door, I want to put a a portico roof. >> Not just enclosing what's there. You're adding on to what's there. Is that >> No, just enclosing I'm just enclosing
it, but over the front door, you know, the house is just flat. So, I want to put like a roof or like a sophet or something >> coming out of there. How far out is that? Uh, >> I believe it's going to be 24 in. And I think I'm allowed 18. In the zoning schedule, you'll see the
front yard setback is listed as 27.6 on the proposed condition from what it was previously >> because we were we also got some kind of uh I don't even know what this thing. >> Okay, so now that's that's another that's the other two variances I'm
doing. That's for the lot coverage for my patio in the backyard. >> Okay. So, >> we didn't have that. So, it was very confusing. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. I thought I submitted the a copy. >> Yeah. >> Right.
I'm lost. Do you understand? >> What is the work that you're proposing in the back? >> Well, it's already there. I installed the patio in 2020. I did it myself. Then I learned that when I put the patio, I didn't get permits. I was supposed to get permits and I'm over the lot
coverage. So now I need to >> I have to put a drywall drainage for the lot coverage. >> Did you discuss that with the town engineer? >> Yeah, that's the front page of the ads. of the >> front of the sheet. That's the the chambers for the drywalls for the water.
>> If if I might, I I believe there's a technical issue here and that the application only mentions one construction. It doesn't mention the back. So any one receiving notice would
not have known that that was part of the application doesn't say >> I think please sir >> I think the application can't be heard unless it's amended and be noticed showing the complete um
aspects of what they're seeking by way of variance even if it exists they're seeking of of variance afterwards that needs to be in the application >> okay I'm in agreement Do you understand? You're I I must admit I and many of the board
members were confused when we read your application because the application talks about the front yard and the portico and then there were documents which seemed to deal with the backyard but the application doesn't mention that.
>> It doesn't say for lot coverage. The application >> it says for lot coverage but it doesn't say what the construction is. Oh, for the >> any of your neighbors or the public reading this notice wouldn't know that you're also seeking variances in the
backyard, >> right? >> So that that can't be heard by the board. >> Okay. Um, so my I mean you could either just go ahead with half the application and come back or I suggest you just revise the application to set forth
clearly everything you're you've done or are going to do and all the >> uh variances and then come back in in January so it can be all heard at once. >> Well, would I be able to do the one now and then come back for the other one? I mean, they're two separate jobs anyway.
>> But but the variances, you can't decide one without the other because the variances are all wrapped up together. >> All right. So, I just come back in January. >> Okay. >> Can I ask a question about your notice? Did it say and any other variances necessary by the board?
>> I don't remember. I don't have the notice. necessary as evidenced by now on file or as >> well. What plans were on file other than the survey? >> Am I?
>> Yeah, because of the back patio. it. I I understand that the the variances may have been covered, >> but anybody reading the description request for variance only would see that they were doing an enclosure on the
front door and and I think that that's at best is confusing. >> Yeah, it was confusing to me. >> So, chair, my recommendation is that the board have a motion to table this to be brought back. Do we know the
January meeting date? >> Bruce, >> he has to Bruce, >> he has to renotify though, correct? >> He has to renotify. >> But he But you would still have to renotice because you're changing. >> So, I just have to send out the letters again. >> Yeah.
>> But amend it to include whatever else you're asking. >> But the stuff the stuff I'm submitting to you now is okay as far as like the paperwork for the patio. You need more than this. >> Um, that would be >> well the survey. It's an asbelt, so it
shows where the patio is. The drainage actually removes some of it in the rear because it was built over the property. So, I think there's enough detail on the paperwork for the patio notices. Yeah, the the documentation supporting
it is not the issue. It's just it's the notice. >> It didn't say we've done work in the backyard that we want permission for. Also, >> all right. So, I'm okay with the documentation. I just have to renotify everybody. >> We have to submit a revised application
and then revise the notice to comply with the new application. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> We need a motion to No, we're not carrying. He has to renotice. Never mind. >> Yeah. That's it. Okay. Next application is application
2025-13 176 Hillside Avenue block 2901 lot 46. It's a request for lot coverage fence height pool equipment setback and area fence or fence pool and patio installation.
>> Good evening. How are you? >> Good evening ma'am. How are you? >> Good. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> I do. >> Please state your full name. Spell your last name. State your home address. >> Raphael Bau. B A I L A O. 176 Hillside Avenue, Springfield.
>> Thank you. >> Um would you like to just walk the board through what you're requesting and the reasons for it? >> Sure. I had a uh patio installed on the back and uh lot coverage was over. So I had to uh submit a drainage proposal
which I believe was approved. And also um when the um Mike and Bob came over, they said that the the pool um where the pool is located is not where it's supposed to be. I think it's a couple of feet of uh closer to the
fence where it's supposed to be at. And the equipment of the pool, which I wasn't aware it's supposed to be, I think five feet from the property line is actually think maybe a foot or two. Um however, it's extremely quiet. doesn't make any noise for at all. I was
just wondering if we can uh keep it as is. >> This an above ground pool. >> It was uh I sunk it was an above ground pool that I sunk in halfway and it was explained by the uh by the uh permit when I pulled.
>> Was that shed there or or did you install that shed? >> The shed is actually not there right now. I was proposed to install it. Um I got I got put shed in there. It's not there yet. I believe the shed's supposed to be 5 ft off the property line.
I mean, is it possible for whenever I do install the ship to keep it as where it is where I marked it on on the uh survey because uh generally they wanted 5T per fire right not right on property something that
a safety issue. Um, >> what uh was the shed included in their lock coverage calculations at 12 by 16? >> Yes. >> Was there something with the fence too being over six feet in the front there because of the slope?
>> Yes. Um, I'm sorry. I I forgot about that little detail. It was a fence that I put a little addition on on the fence in the front and uh it's actually where my property is. it slopes towards the neighbor and about maybe a foot closer
to the to the neighbor. It's actually it's it's higher than most. So I need to kind of try to fill it or something. So it doesn't have that gap underneath the fence. So it kind of aligns with my property. My property is level and then right at the edge it kind of slopes down
a little bit. >> Is there a reason why the part that goes back to your neighbor doesn't drop down? comp. >> Um, I was trying to keep it. So, it's it looks it look I I didn't
want it to like off. I want to look nice straight. >> Now, it's above your neighbor instead of >> it is, but like I said, my neighbor's property is actually lower than mine. Um, I'll try to keep it even flow with my property line. >> And And what do you plan on doing? I
mean, for safety, you know, somebody could easily crawl under there or get into the pool. What are you doing for safety? right now is actually covered. I mean, nobody's going to go back there because I have a dog. My my issue that I have is the dog actually running out because I have two dogs. I have a pipo and a little Maltese. The Maltese tends to get out
got out a couple of times. My wife almost killed me, but they returned them. Well, >> you also think that one day you may sell the house and there's another family there without a dog protecting the back even though there is a safety issue getting in there. >> I don't need to cut you off. I propose to maybe fill in the gap a little bit.
So, make sure make my property actually nice and flat and we'll have no no issue with that. Eventually just kind of fill in that gap. Possibly putting a uh a retaining wall block perhaps. So this is a catchup. What happened was
the applicant applied to the zoning officer for just the pool. Pool was approved in a compliant location. Remember, pool's not lock coverage. There was really nothing associated with it. Lo and behold, the applicant installed the pool, put in a patio that wasn't previously approved, put the pool
equipment in without building permits, put the fence in. So, this is all catch up. So, you got a pool that was shifted from the approved place. It's in the wrong spot. It's 12t set back, not 15. Got the pool equipment which is two feet away instead of 15 feet. You got the
shed which is the applicant said not in place but desired to be two feet set back not five. And you got the fence height which is supposed to be six feet max is now seven foot. >> And then you have a patio that was
installed that puts lot coverage over. >> That's right. Lock coverage variance as well because of the patio. Now they he has submitted drainage calculations for it were acceptable with but he's got all of those variances that were created by basic work without the uh permits and
approval. In fact, the pool has not last time we checked the pool has not been inspected in any way, shape or form. >> That was going to be my next question. Do we know that the pool complies with all regulations in the code? >> We don't know that. Chair, I unfortunately I have the same problem with this application as a prior
one. On its face, the application is for a fence. It mentions some of the other variances. Does not mention a pool, a patio, a shed. Unless I'm missing it, I don't see that anyone in the public reading what this application would
understand that they're looking to legalize an existing pool with numerous variances. I don't have that. >> Yeah, this page right here. >> It's an explanation. >> No, >> that has to do with the fence, >> right? It
that's >> what page he's showing a page. Let me see this. >> This is the notice. You know, this doesn't Sir, on your request for the variance, the page that you attach to it, all it
talks about is the fence. It doesn't mention anything about the pool, the shed, patio. Just talks about you wanting to get a bearings for the fence. Um, so >> no, I know. I think I'm missing
>> that notice anything. >> This just >> it does. It It says the variance are for height, law, coverage, setback, and shed setback. And then it says for pool, fence, shed, pool, equipment, patio. >> This is what was sent to everyone in >> No, but there's nothing in here,
>> right? For the application, though. I do have extra cops if you like. >> Thank you. >> I am I'm going to have to defer to council on this. Notice is a jurisdictional issue. So if he feels that notice is not proper in order for us to hear the application, then we're
going to have to move it. >> It It's a little closer than the last one because the notice does have it, >> right? But if if a member of the public saw the notice and came into the zoning office to review the application to get
details on what was being proposed, there are no details because only the fence is mentioned in the application. I think that there's a lack of proper notice to the public who may have come in and reviewed the documents as they
are allowed. And I I do think it denies the board jurisdiction. >> Okay. >> I have I have a question. I mean, this was all done. I came up here and I asked and this is my first time doing this. I was under assumption everything was
was was done correctly. I don't know what else do I need to do. Everything is in there that was supposed to be notified. Everybody supposed to be notified of of what I'm doing. >> But it's all in there. >> Your application does not mention anything but defense. So, anyone looking
at your application doesn't know you're seeking approval for a previously installed pool or a shed or a patio. So, um >> but the application with the township would mean I did state on actual notice.
>> No, I I understand that. But this is your application that came before the board. the board has before it that you're seeking offense variance and any member of the public who maybe saw that notice
and wanted to find out the details that came into to the the annex building to look at your application. All they would see is a fence application. They wouldn't know that that you're doing anything in your backyard or looking for
approval. Yes, the notice says pool, but it doesn't say what or or anything like that. This board only has jurisdiction over items that have been properly noticed to the public and in the application.
So, the application has to be amended to include everything that was done in the backyard that you're seeking variances for. I I I don't think the word pool is in your application anywhere. >> I I was charged for the variance of the
applications. >> It has nothing to do with what you were charged for. You you are responsible for properly filling out the application. >> Okay. >> And and it's my recommendation to the board that that hasn't been done properly.
So unfortunately what our attorney is saying is that we because of a deficiency in notice and the application we cannot hear this right now until it is properly noticed and the public is fully aware of what you are requesting in your application.
>> So in other words I have to pay again to send all these letters out to certified letters and all that good stuff. >> You don't have to pay the application fees again but you have to amend the application and you do have to renote it. Can I also add um if when if and when
you come back uh personally I'd like to see a a a solution for the fence issue with safety also the shed addressed as far as maybe moving that away from the property line where it's complying one
of your variances. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. So, if you were going to come back, we you would be looking at January 20th to notice and and have the amended information into the township at least 10 days prior to that.
>> Okay. I'll contact J, I guess. >> Thank you very much. All right. The next application this evening is a continuation of application 2025-1837 Church Mall block 207 lot 23 site plan
application with use variance. >> How are you? >> I'm very well madam chairwoman. Members of the board Steven H. Murman. >> Yes. We're going to take a one minute break. about that. >> Good evening, Madam Chairwoman, members
of the board. Stephen H. Murman of the law firm of Java Morgaf appearing on behalf of the applicant. We appreciate the board coming out tonight, understanding how difficult it is this time of year and clearly uh I'm going to ask Mr. Bergen first. Is my notice okay, Mr. Bergen?
I think it is. In any event, um we've been here, this is our third time. We have heard the board's concerns. We're ready to address those concerns. Uh tonight, we have received the review letter by Mr. Disco.
And there's a couple of things I just want to uh place on the record with regard to Mr. Disco's review myself. And then after that, I am going to uh call our traffic expert uh Connor Yu from
dynamic traffic and then I will recall our planner Robert Hudach who has previously testified. uh other members of the alliance are here including uh Kristen uh who has previously testified and would be available to answer any questions that the board may have but I
think we will be able to address all the concerns that have previously been raised. So let me first start with uh site plan preliminary and final site plan. We've asked for a site plan waiver in our application. We've done that from the beginning of this application. So uh
not being picky on that but I just wanted to make it clear that we have requested the site waiver as part of this application. Uh secondly, uh during the course of the presentations and again as part of the review letter, we note that uh questions
have been raised as to the population to be served and we've had a lot of statements that have previously been made on that and I'm going to give the board a definitive statement as approved by the board of share alliance for me to
give you. Um but the board is first off I want to indicate to you um the organizations which are part of the share alliance. They are the first uh Presbyterian Church of Springfield, Antioch Renaissance Church, Springfield
Unity Project, Springfield Rotary is a member of the alliance and the Springfield uh interfaith clergy association. Sher receives funding from some specific sources. They are the prespitary of the
Northeast Development and Mission, Atlantic Federal Credit Union, Renaissance Church, Springfield Unity Project, and the First Presbyterian Church of Springfield. These organizations are what we have identified as being part of the Share
Alliance community as we have previously discussed. when we were defining uh the population uh we had a lot of uh conversations uh about what goes on at Grace and Summit and we have adopted the same uh principles as Grace has uh and
that is how they have defined it. If you uh live in, worship, have professional services or work in Springfield, we will support you. And that pretty much is the same way that Grace is mission is set forth in Summit.
Now, amongst the things that we had uh talked about were how are we going to control the use of the property, control the population? Well, first off, by identifying the organizations as well as any Springfield resident being able to participate, we know we've
now limited the number of people who will be able and eligible to make a reservation. Reservation system is absolutely key to the overall success of this operation as well as to maintaining the decorum that
we know is necessary uh for a operation of this size. Connor is going to address a lot of that. He's done trip counts and we will show you all of that. So, um I do have some specifics on the reservation system. Um but I think that
we're going to be going into the weeds on that because the bottom line is this. If you do not belong to any of those member organizations or a resident of Springfield, you're not going to be able to make the reservation. The reservations are going to be limited in the manner in which you've already
described to the board. How many reservations are going to be available for a particular period of time. So that is going to limit the number of cars at least in stage one that's going to be able to uh participate in the program for the limited period of time. Two
hours on Saturday is what is being proposed. So we've limited the population. We've limited the number of people that can actually participate because of the reservation system. If someone arrives without a reservation, they are going to be turned away. If
someone arrives or attempts to make a reservation and they are not part of the population that's been identified, chair is going to refer them somewhere else because they know that they can't participate here in Springfield based
upon the stipulations and conditions that I'm sure the board is going to place on this. Finally, one last item. the idea of what happens if there's a special event, a popup, let's say. We talked previously about the Community
Food Bank of New Jersey uh being out and coming out. We talk about the turkey giveaway and like that. Um, fortunately there's been the experience over the last several months, in fact between the time we were here and the time we're
here now, uh, that in fact there has been two specific events that were run with the participation of the municipality and the board of education. Um, one of those was a food drive, the other was a a turkey giveaway. Uh, the turkey giveaway was uh at the school
property. We would anticipate that any similar types of events, we will stipulate this as well, um will not automatically be scheduled at this location. First off, we're only asking for permission to use this location for
this limited amount of time that we are having our application. So, any popup, any type of event that occurs, there will be coordination with the municipality. Uh it may be that we request with the municipality the opportunity to do it at this site. Um
but uh it's either going to be a board of ed or a community uh municipal uh circumstance. There is not going to be any of those events without seeking additional review. Finally, um with regard to the traffic study that we're
going to present, uh I did reach out personally uh to both a member of the traffic bureau as well as the chief. Um, and we have provided a copy of our traffic study that we're going to send tonight to the police department. We did
not receive any feedback and I don't know, I don't think you guys did either. Mike didn't either. Mike did a great job of reviewing it though. So, we're we're okay and we're ready to go. So, without further ado, unless anybody has any questions of me, I would introduce Connor.
>> I do have a question. I don't know if this is one. >> At the last couple hearings, we were talking about phase one, phase two, all these different levels of things. How does this intersect with what you're telling us now? As far as >> Mr. Hughes is going to be able to
incorporate that in his uh testimony because he's going to go through all of the phases and how the traffic is going to be impacted the various phases. You swear or affirm to tell the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> State your full name. Spell your last name. Give us your office address.
>> My name is Connor Hughes. Last name is spelled H U G H E S. I work for Dynamic Traffic at 245 Main Street in Chester, New Jersey. >> Thank you. >> You can use the podium. You have much more stuff tonight. >> Thank you, sir. >> All right, Mr. Hughes, could you please give the board the benefit of your
educational and professional background. >> Absolutely. Um so I'm a project manager at dynamic traffic. I have a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. License is still in current good standing um for about four years now. I've been qualified as an expert in traffic engineering at various other
boards throughout the state including the planning board here in uh Springfield. Um and I prepared hundreds of different traffic impact studies for for various land uses um across the state. Any objections by any members of the board
qualifying Mr. Hughes as an expert in traffic engineering? >> You may proceed. >> Thank you. >> Could you please uh give the board >> certainly. Um so the main piece of information that was incorporated and was needed to accurately and um prepare
this report was the operational outline and how those stages are going to work, how they're going to tie in with each other. Um and then what the associated traffic levels are and parking demands and all those types of things. Um, so I'll I'll get into that as far as how we
establish those those numbers and um in close coordination with the applicant um based on their experience and based on their their projected operations. Um so as mentioned we did prepare and submit a a full comprehensive traffic impact study that was dated December 2nd 2025.
Um this included two main components was one being the uh traffic impact the other being the parking impact and the parking demand. Um so the first aspect the the traffic impacts first we have to establish our our baseline traffic
volumes as far as the volumes along the roadway and the adjacent intersections. Um so to do that we conducted manual turning counts at mainly the intersection of Church Mall and Morris Avenue um the traffic signal and then also Church Mall and Academy Green. Uh
we did these on Saturday, November 22nd, 2025 from 12:00 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. We selected these times to align with the operation times for uh the proposed operations. um those being one to four 1
pm to 4 pm for the first three stages and then that fourth stage the community meal um being from 5:30 sorry 5 to 9:00 p.m. Um so again those that those hours from 12:00 to 9:30 account for uh the not only the operational hours
themselves but a little bit of time before and after to account for arrivals and departures. Um and with those those count hours, we established two uh we isolated two peak hours. One being what we're calling the Saturday midday and then the Saturday evening. Um that
Saturday midday is based on those first three stages that 1 to four operating time and then that Saturday evening uh would be that 5 to9 operating time. So within those two periods, we isolated the single highest volume of traffic um during any one hour and that served as
the basis for our our analysis. Um so once we get those existing conditions, those existing traffic volumes established now we need to project those into the future. Um the first step of that is establishing the future traffic volumes without consideration of the site traffic. This is what we call our
no build conditions. Um this is established with background growth rates. We looked at those published by New Jersey Department of Transportation. Um they established percentage of growth based on the classification of the roadways based on the location of the
site. Um so we grew our existing traffic volumes for two years uh for 2.25% per year based on those background growth rates. Um and then we also accounted specifically for the adjacent development next door, the 100 unit residential development. Um, so we
looked at the traffic study for that, accounted the traffic volumes associated with that project along with that background growth, which does help to account for any other area developments that might not have been specifically um included in our report. And then getting into the second step of establishing
those future conditions is now we add the site trips on top of that those no build volumes. Um so typically to project the chip generation we look to the institute of transportation engineers being that this is a a rather unique use um we coordinated with the
applicant with their operations and what they project as far as these different stages um as far as the number of patrons that they expect staff members all those things that would um contribute to the number of cars visiting the site. Um so as we mentioned
it's broken out into four stages. That first stage is the drive-through feud distribution. Again, this runs from 1 to 4:00 p.m. on the first and third Saturday of each month. Um, we're projecting a maximum of seven staff or volunteers, and there may be one pickup driver on site for food to then deliver
that elsewhere. Um, so a maximum up to eight vehicles for for the staff. Um, and then up to about 20 patrons per hour as far as the actual customers. Um, the important thing is that patrons will remain in their vehicle during the pickup. Um so essentially circulate into
the site, pick up their their food and then circulate out of the site without actually parking um in any of those stalls. So moving on to the to the second stage, this is the cooking class. This also runs from 1 to 4 p.m. but on the second Saturday of each month. So alternates
between that and the the food distribution. Uh there's only two staff volunteers for this one and then 10 a maximum of 10 students per class. Moving into the third stage, which is the shopping component. This coincides with the drive-through distribution. Um,
so this also runs on the on the third Saturday of each month, not the first Saturday, just the third Saturday. Um, this would have a maximum of three staff and six patrons per hour with two at a single time. Um, and then that last stage is the community meal, which runs
from 5:00 to 9:00 p.m. on the fourth Saturday of each month. Um, this would have a maximum of 10 staff. There are eight tables, eight each. So 64 total seats. Um based on the ordinance requirement of one per two and a half seats for for the parking, we equated
this to 26 parking spaces that would be um occupied as far as the patrons are concerned at any given time. Um so that helped us develop the trip generation as well. And so you can see based on these various stages and there's an alternating pattern of when these are going to be happening during each
Saturday. They're not all happening at a single time. um they're well thought out to make sure that the activity is is spread out as evenly and as efficiently as as possible. Um so essentially after looking through all these these numbers and and these operations um we
established what would be the highest hour of activity um during those two time periods on a Saturday, the midday and the evening. And during both that midday and evening peak period, we project a total of 72 trips coming to or
from the site. So that's 36 trips in and 36 trips out. Um again, this would occur mainly on the third Saturday of each month when that uh drive-thru operation is coinciding with the the shopping component and then also during that's for the midday. And
then during that evening, it would be that community meal just on the fourth Saturday of each month. So one time a month um is when we would see that activity. So again, 72 total trips for both of those those peak hours. Um to put that into some frame of reference, New Jersey DOT sets forth a threshold of
100 new peak hour trips that they consider to be significant. Um so essentially at that point is where you would see some discernable um differences in in the traffic operations within the closest intersections and and roadways. Um so being at 72 trips, we
are below that threshold. Um and our analysis is somewhat conservative for for a couple reasons. Um but we wanted to make sure that we analyze really a worst case scenario so that there's some flexibility and and some factor of safety built into um to
the results that we're presenting. So as far as a conservative nature again for that Saturday at midday it was assumed that those first three stages all happened simultaneously. Um as I just mentioned that's not going to be the case. Just that first and third Saturday really just the third Saturday would first and third stage coincide. Um aside
from that they would each run on their own time. So again, assuming those first three stages are all happening at the same time during that Saturday midday. And then we also assume that the peak hour of the activity for the site would occur at the
same time as the peak hour traffic along the roadway. Um realistically, particularly on the Saturday evening period. Um it's possible that that peak hour of the site activity doesn't coincide with with the highest volumes on the on the roads themselves. Um but again we just wanted to analyze that
worst case scenario where if that did happen what would those results be and we did also assume that all the staff and volunteers would be arriving and leaving in the same hour. Um all these programs are running over three or four hours. So realistically that wouldn't be
the case but again just to kind of show that what if um incorporated that into our analysis as well. And the other important aspect of this is that we assume the full operations based on what we just went through would happen at the onset of of this service opening. Um,
realistically, it's going to kind of build over over a few years up to up to these numbers. Um, so there's going to be a time period built in where the operators can kind of see how it's operating and and really fine-tune their registration system and their operations
on site to make sure that it's operating as efficiently as possible. Um so and that ties into our actual um technical analysis with our levels of service. Um so with or without the site traffic, we're anticipating essentially no change
in in the levels of service. So the levels of service that are established when without the site traffic once we add that site traffic in, we don't see any change with with that level of service. there's some increases, slight increases with the actual delay. Um, but it stays within that same level of
service range even when we add that that site traffic. Um, so essentially there's little to no change with or without that site traffic. And we did also look at the queuing along Church Mall knowing that that was uh one of the concerns. Um, so there's about 135 ft from where
the stop bar is on Church Mall when you're approaching Morris Avenue to the um driveway for for the Presbyterian Church. Um, what we found in our our build analysis with that site traffic added in is that the 95th percentile queue 5% of the time um that queue reees
76 feet, which is about three to four cars. um with that 130 ft that's provided, we're well within that that um that storage area. So, we don't anticipate any queuing to block that driveway, at least not in a chronic nature. Um so, there's some extra area
built in there that if there was some if there were to be some extra um trips than what we're projecting, there is that factor of safety sort of built into that. Um and the other aspect is that Morsav and Church Mall is actually under DOT jurisdiction with being a DOT
roadway. So, it is subject to um the New Jersey DOT access code level of service degradation. They essentially set forth the maximum level of service that you can um degrade the intersection to once you add the site traffic. And when we did that analysis, we found that we meet all that criteria. So, there's no
requirement for any approval from DOT from that standpoint. Um and there's also no further mitigation required to to the traffic signal. Obviously, the southbound lanes of Church Mall have fairly recently been improved to not provide one lane, but two separate turning lanes. Um, so that obviously
helps with with that queuing. And then there were some signal timing adjustments conducted as well. I actually worked on the report for that that project on the corner there um that helped implement those uh those improvements. So even with this extra site traffic, we find that those
improvements uh maintain the operation at that signal in particular. Um, and then going just one step further, there was a comment in Mr. Disco's report about the distribution of the traffic and how many of these cars would be turning left out of Church Mall to go towards the east being that a good
portion of the population um could come from there. So, we did a quick sensitivity analysis of sorts where we just assumed that 100% of the vehicles coming to or from the site were coming from that that eastern side. So, 100% of the cars are turning left at a church mall. Um and when we looked at that
analysis, we found that again the levels of service remain the same as those no bill conditions. Um no level of service FS. There's some level of service ease, but again those are essentially existing conditions also no bill conditions that would be maintained, not conditions
being created by the addition of of the site traffic. Um, and we found that the queueing along Church Mall for that sensitivity analysis also stays within that 135 ft without blocking the church driveway. Um, so even with that
essentially unrealistic analysis with 100% of the cars turning left out of that church mall approach, um, we find that the operations are are still um the same with or without that site traffic. And then getting into the parking, it's been previously talked about that we're
proposing to utilize the existing lots at the parish house as well as the church lot. Um so there's a total of 43 spaces provided between those two lots. 16 at the parish house, 27 at the church. Um the ordinance doesn't define a parking requirement for this use. So
again, we had to look to the operational projections to kind of establish our our parking demand. And based on those numbers that I kind of went through previously, uh we find that the maximum parking demand would be during that community meal uh stage and the mark the maximum demand would be 36 parking
spaces. Um so with that the 43 spaces between the two lots would be sufficient to to accommodate that and those 36 spaces are likely to be somewhat conservative since based on the ordinance of one per two and a half seats that likely include some calculation for staff. We added the 10
staff on top of that. So 26 spaces for the 64 seats plus the 10 staff members gets us to 36 spaces. Um and again this only occurs during that community meal on only the fourth Saturday of each month. Um and we do know that there is a
number of ADA spaces at that church lot. Even discounting those five spaces and assuming that they aren't going to be used that gives us an effective supply of 38 spaces. we still would have enough to to accommodate that demand. Um, and
we did actually do some parking observations and some parking counts within those two lots as well as a long church mall. Um, during those same times on November 22nd from 12 9:30 p.m. Um, and we found that in between the two lots, there was about four to eight occupied spaces. This is consistent with
some of the data that Mr. Disco previously provided and looked at himself. There was four to nine spaces in that report. um only two to four of those spaces were occupied during that peak period from 5 to 9:00 p.m. for the site. Um so during
that that critical peak period with only 2 to four occupied spaces that gives us anywhere from 39 to 41 available spaces between those two lots which again can accommodate what we project to be that that maximum demand. And along Church Mall on average there's about 15 occupied spaces. This also is consistent
with the previous data supplied by Mr. Disco. Um we know that and we acknowledge that the parking situation along Church Mall is going to change that some of that will be attributed to the cemetery some of that will be attributed to um the new development. So we understand that that supply will
decrease um in the future but again we don't anticipate a heavy reliance on that street parking. Yes, there could be one to two three cars that that may utilize it either by choice or as needed if more of the parking is is um is
occupied. Um but again the 95 to 100% of the the site traffic is projected to be accommodated between the the two parking lots. Um and the church lot will be utilized for staff volunteers. They'll be directed to park there so that we can prioritize that parish lot um for the
patrons and as Mr. Murman mentioned any larger events, special events of that sort would be coordinated um with the township, with the board of education uh to make sure that the proper um that the proper operations are in place and they wouldn't be held at this
particular location. It would be looked to hold those at u larger community centers within the uh within the township to make sure that those people can be accommodated. Um, so that essentially sums up everything I had as far as my my direct, but if anybody has
any questions or there's any thing that I missed. >> Okay. >> Um, as you were going through and you you indicated F. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> So, um, when you identified, >> right,
>> that's an overall identification of the intersection throughout the throughout every week. >> Right. >> Um during the observations that were made with regard to this study, >> that intersection was observed,
>> right? >> Um would your data indicate that at the time specifically that we were talking about that the intersection was operating at level something? >> Sorry, repeat that for me. Was the
intersection during the peak hours that you reviewed? Was it operating as you would expect an E intersection to operate >> or was it >> performing different? >> Yes, I would say that the operations mimic that of of a level of service E condition. >> And when you indicated that there were
times when it would you indicate, do you have any idea what point that would be during the course of the day? um likely more during the week during a rush hour times 7 to 9 in the morning, 4
to 6 in the p p.m. Um might be a period of time in the middle of a Saturday if there's some event going on that that that could happen. Um but generally speaking, those those weekdays would be the more critical time period. >> I have When you talked about the sit down
meals, >> uh, >> was that one seating for the evening or is that multiple seating? How did you study that? >> I believe there's going to be two periods, uh, 5 to 7 and 7 to 9 where there's so there's two time periods that
customers can sign up for and it'll be capped. >> So that so my concern is there's people sitting for the first seating, >> their and the people for the second are coming
in. What happens in that in parking that >> yeah and that's you know that's essentially the case with with any similar operation there there may be some some overlap period um but again those those numbers will be you know
managed beforehand so that there will be that parking available during during that overlap period. Um, and we really just based the number of seats. We essentially maximized our our analysis on on the ordinance requirement. Um, I think I saw somewhere that the there'
only be 20 people at a max time being able to register for um for this service. So, if that's the case, then our numbers are essentially double what what we would actually expect. Um, so we feel comfortable that there's ample space, ample overflow within that
overlap period to to account for that. Yes, >> we just calculated that again based on the one per two and a half seats in in the ordinance. So >> yeah, >> yeah. No, but I maybe I misheard you. I thought you said 64 people sitting at
one meal and then 64 at the next. >> There's 64 seats provided. Yes, that's >> So there could be 64 people at each >> potentially, right? >> Okay. So that means 64 car, you know, could be a lot of cars, not 20. >> Yeah. Not not 64 cars.
>> No, I I I get that. >> Yeah, that's where we get the 26 from is >> Right. So you're assuming those people go together maxed out at 26, right? A couple of things of that. Sorry. >> But I still don't get the overlap how that works. If there's 64 people sitting
down having meal and then the next people, they're not going to come after the other people leave. Let me get the exact times that the meals will be because I think there is some buffer built in. >> Okay. And so that's one thing. The other question I have, some of the people are going to be not driving cars. They'll be
taking bus, walking, whatever it is for pedestrian pedestrian traffic and how that would impact all the cars and how that's going to be safe for pedestrians coming in and out of there. Is there any kind of plan for that >> as far as getting the pedestrians that maybe take the bus
>> with the cars going in out of the parking lot and stuff? I'm assuming some of these people probably can't afford cars until they're taking a bus or walking, whatever. >> Is there a plan for the >> guest? Um, just to use the existing existing sidewalk network. So, there's
no specific operational plan as far as that goes. Um, but we have the sidewalk network available that that can accommodate those pedestrians. >> Um, and this is probably not this is probably not for you. I have a question about the registration and how
And then the um one question which I have uh for our attorney is if we prove it based on their testimony and things happen differently, how does that get enforced or does it get withdrawn? Like
how what happens? It would really be up to the zoning officer and maybe the police department to make sure that there aren't issues and um if the numbers are exceeding then uh that would be a zoning violation. >> And and then what happened with could
they withdraw the approval? Is that how does that work? I I don't understand. >> Um can you withdraw the approval? Not really. But but what's approved can be enforced in the municipal court.
>> I think it's pretty it's pretty obvious. Our our concern is this all sounds great, but in practice all of a sudden there's 100 cars there. It's a mess. We've approved it. How do you unapprove it? come back. And then
I board to address the concerns over cars that clearly is a failure on the part. That's my response. anything that we've agreed to a lot of
stipulations that one thing is in fact session session is that time seats again.
So anticipating >> what information do you have to prove that it is four people coming in one car? We don't we and and Con will go back into it because the projections that are being made are based upon both
the uh known factors as we have them as well as the anticipated program that we have. This actually this community kitchen aspect of it. This is probably one of the most unique aspects of this
few of these nobody's think one of the issues that came up first. When everybody came to me, I had this is not in fact part of this. So that is all part and parcel of I will
say this we proposed these numbers feels that it works and then maybe we can come back and >> the fourth Saturday of the month where you have the community meals from 5 to 9
or 5 to 6:30. They're not cooking in that time that you just mentioned. Are they I mean you have an hour and a half to cook, sit down and eat would be nearly >> necessarily they're not cooking their own meals. >> You just mentioned cooking.
>> What I'm indicating is that there there will be demonstrations. There will be activities during the time of this meal to assist and further the program. >> And that has openings for 64 potential
guests. He's shaking his head. >> Reggie, I I can introduce Reggie, but but Mr. Harris actually is the gentleman who has done all of >> you can't you can't you got to come up
be sworn in. Do >> you swear? Affirm to tell the truth. >> I do. >> State your full name, spell your last name, give us your if you're associated with the business or whatever.
>> Okay. My name is Reginald Harris. My last name is H A R R I S. I am also a Springfield resident. I live at 58 Battle Hill Avenue, Springfield, New Jersey. I'm also part of Antioch Baptist Church, um, which is 640 South
Springfield Avenue, Springfield, New Jersey. I'm also part of the SECA, the which is the Springfield Interfaith Clergy Association, which incorporates many of the different um, religious organizations here. And I'm also part of
the board of the Share Alliance. Um, so that is pretty much my background. And you think you can answer? >> Well, it's clearly stated that our intent is only to have 20 people seated
at that at each of those. >> That's what I wrote down. Okay. When he said 64, >> the space is zoned for 64, but we only intend to feed 20 people per set per setting. And that's two settings that
will take place. And that's where like the overlap you're talking about, that's why we tried to build in the time to make sure the people have adequate time to leave the space before new um people came to be seated in the space. >> And you still have 26 spaces. So if there are four people per car, you're
only talking five cars and you're moving on. Okay. >> Yes. >> Can I ask you another question while you're up here about the reservation system? So he had stated there's 20 patrons per hour and they would remain in their vehicle, >> right? because that's in phase one that
we're speaking of >> and that is the initial food distribution of the share alliance. So we anticipate >> that it's going to be for those those those for that hour those those 20. >> So there's 60 patrons total that you'll
be providing bags of food for from 1 to 4 on the first and third Saturday of the month in your reservation system. Are they given a select time within that one to >> Yes, we So, it's it's only going to be uh the the the um five cards per the
15minute um spacing. So, um once we receive the application and we verify that they are actually eligible, then they then they can act then they can go into the system where they can reserve a time. They'll be given a link so that
way they can go now to reserve a time. you won't automatically just be able to come in, sign up, have a have a space. It's not it's not like that. And it and the persons have to meet all the criteria that we've stated in our
application. Otherwise, we knew we would we would face difficulty. So in in anticipation of of future events, we don't we we plan to stick to this as as tightly as possible because again like we said from the very beginning, we do
not want to um change the face of this community. I've been here for over 20 years. I've lived in this community. I'm also part of law enforcement. I've retired. I understand a lot of these concerns that we each have. And we do not want we said we want to work in
conjunction with um all the the the municipality whether it's this board whether it's uh the mayor everyone associated in town. >> Okay. My final question for you is if there are people that come into the lineup or come and show up that are not
part of your reservation system, where in this circle of movement are we need to come back or register on site or however you're going to >> Absolutely. We're telling them they they're they cannot be served >> because we we we understand that that is
the major concern. We we so we've already discussed this among ourselves. Although it it is something that is is anti what we probably all stand for as believers. Um we we we understand the concern and
we said anyone who drives up at this point and they and they have not been registered that we have to just unfortunately turn them away. >> So you'll have someone at the entryway doing it. The way we anticipate it is we have somebody at the top of the top of
the um driveway that will do the initial. They'll come down the driveway, they'll be served, and then they'll then they'll leave. >> Thank you. Yeah, I just >> just for a point of just for a point of
clar just so I understand because I understand what you said but I'm completely confused by what you reported and what you were saying. So in essence we're talking about maybe going along with what you were saying a family it's about six cars then we're talking about
six cars showing up not 25 cars with three people four people. Am I right? Am I just >> you you you are correct. Okay, we we have a certain methodology that we have to use when >> are you but in that case oh excuse me
>> I've done this a couple of times just >> the methodology means that we have to go to the max right so the max that the floor area would allow would be 64 seats right so that's what it's been calculated on when
we were talking We have agreeing to serve less people. >> Yeah, because I thought last time there wasn't a limit. Not a no limit. It wasn't talked about 20 people.
>> I don't think we got into that. I don't recall any of that. We submitted the operational >> over your plan to grow the community meal past the 20 because I get you're saying 64 but in my mind I'm still the 26.
>> Right. No, the 26, >> right? But if you do have a family of four, you could take 64 people at your table. >> You could and and and I think that um we're we're indicating
family >> all of that is fine. It's more of what we were the fellow board member was talking about is the concern of 20 vehicles. >> That's what we're trying to >> anticipate
predict that this is going to take off. We hope that this is going to be this particular program pick up maybe some restaurants might start to want to participate in >> but I think it will pick up and I think you would be over 20 people right away
when you have the option of someone who doesn't get a hot meal to get one like I I think your 20 is going to grow exponentially >> and if it does we're either going to have to come back to ament
or we're going to have to see larger Mr. as I understand it calls for varying degrees of usage the weekends one through four. >> Correct. >> During the months in which there are five weeks
what if any is the proposed usage? At this point, we are not making any plans for those five weekends. >> So, it's going to be it's going to be empty those five. >> Yeah, it may be empty. It may also give us an opportunity for the volunteers to
come in and spruce up the place and and do other things when they that they don't do. Um the an expansion the expansion of the program as we are talking about it is not going to happen. The only expansion of of things that that that might happen is based upon
demand again, right? Based upon who's contacting us, and you've heard the testimony from my clients, representatives before that, uh, they also are concerned like we had the conversation about the Jewish community um, and what happens if somebody from the Jewish community and they don't have kosher food. Well, they're going to make
the referral over to Elizabeth and they're going to assist and maybe even assist in actually getting the food from Elizabeth to that patron. in Springfield, but not at sight. >> But to answer my question directly,
at this point, there are no plans for the uh for that fifth weekend. >> That's correct. >> If you're doing a drive up, why are you limiting it to 20 >> on the first and third Saturday?
>> Our concern was very much the same concerns that the board are having these discussions. One of the um major uh discussions that we had was quaint and how many cars could actually be quaint uh during the course of time. We also
had some discussions about how long each delivery into the car was going to take. Those are some of the factors that we used in making this. I would be more than happy to expand this to 30 cars or
40 cars um in the course of of that same time period. Um, but we want to get this off the ground. We want to start we want to see how this is going to operate because we have said we're we're we're predicting things. We're we're making
assumptions and amongst the lawyers uh here we all know what happens when you make assumptions. But they're really not assumptions. They're they're they're based upon facts. They're based upon the experiences that have been based upon the observations that have been made by
our experts. Uh and I say experts because Mr. Hoodak did indicate that he had worked on several uh food bank projects previously before he got here. And we're uh using the experience and the knowledge that the members of Share Alliance have gotten over the course of
my representation which is going on about a year right now. Um I know for a fact that they have been out to Cranford to see how Cranford operates and other similar locations and we've had numerous discussions over what happens up at Grace and that really is probably the uh
the program that we were most like to emulate uh understanding that our scale has to be much smaller. If um if some of the traffic that you anticipate utilizing your facility is more traffic.
Um could one anticipate that they would be dropped off say at the uh shopping center across the street and walking across the street to you guys? And if so, how would that affect
Mr. uses analysis as to the speed of entry in >> well let let let's let's talk let's look at you use the word drop off I hear Uber that's what I hear when you say drop off right or a somebody dropping somebody off in a car from another car you would
anticipate and Connor you're going to have to this is this is what Conor and I talk about all the time I make statements and I go Connor do you agree >> yeah so to echo that sentiment um yes sir certainly There's that possibility. Um, if they were to be dropped off across the street, there's crosswalks at
traffic signal that could be utilized. Um, there is some existing sidewalk along along Church Mall that can accommodate those pedestrians. >> Would not the cars that are driving there >> have to slow up while people are crossing the street? >> If they were dropping off there, but if
they're being dropped off at the at the Parish House, they'd be driving up to to there presumably to drop them off there, right? you put you put in the your location when you asked to be dropped off. So >> we can go back to Mr. Merman's comments
about uh we all make assumptions, but uh >> but with with that you need a car to do the drive-thru. Correct. >> That Yeah. >> Right. So there is no walking in Yeah. So there is I'm kind of going with what you're saying. Yeah. >> Stand online. >> Yeah. You don't want the guy going
through the drive, you know, the Mac machine with no car >> if someone in that circumstance and the registration system let us know that they did not have the ability to do the drive >> accommodation >> could be made right I do have one last
and I'm sorry to beat this to death because I'm reading the application a maximum of 20 people can register for each of the two seatings okay 20 people can register >> does that mean that's one person he
can't bring his kids would indicate 20 would include up to 20 total, right? One person has a family of 18, >> right? >> They get 18.
>> Okay. So, >> so it's a maximum of 20 people can attend, not necessarily register. >> It's not. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do the members of the board have any other questions for Mr. Hughes.
Okay, I'm going to turn it over to our professionals. >> Uh for Mr. Hughes, just to get on the record, >> the Presbyterian Church has the school uh on the Saturday time 1 to 4 and 5 to 9 is the school operation
>> to my knowledge. No. um the green time or the cycle time at that. Can you just mention that because it's a very short green time. That's my only concern. The left turn out, >> right turn, people are probably going to make the right on red even though it's not permitted. So, they'll get out.
>> So, uh I think the the green time is very limited. I mean, I'm talking six seconds or something like that. >> And uh how many cars can get out on a typical >> sequence? Yeah. So, it is it's 7 seconds of green time. Um, and there's a couple seconds of that yellow time where people can sneak through. And as we know,
sometimes it's the red time that still happens. But 7 seconds of green time, that's that's the primary piece of it. And the reason for that is that because it's a DOT, an NJ dot signal, they prioritize their highway essentially. Um, and sometimes limit that time to to
side streets, this case being Church Mall. Um, even with that case, again, we did find acceptable levels of service. Um, as far as how many cars could be processed through there and as soon as that light turns green, if everybody goes immediately, um, maybe three to
four cars before it turns yellow, um, and then goes red. So, if there was a queue of of six or seven cars, then those last couple cars would have to then just wait for the next cycle. Um, but hope that answers that answers your question. >> Yeah. And and to verify also I I saw
that there was a discussion about Academy Green two-way traffic, but Academy Green goes to Black's Lane. Correct. >> Right. >> Black Lane is a oneway off of RSF. So this is the only way out of the >> correct. >> That's the only questions I have for Mr.
>> Did there's they're building apartments back there, the whole development. >> Have you taken that into consideration in your study? >> Yeah. Yeah, we specifically looked at the traffic study for that project and incorporated their their site traffic. So that's all been accounted for in our
analysis. >> Mr. I just want to confirm. Are you saying there's 20 seats for the community meal? seats. >> Uh Mr. What's based on there's 16 parking spaces.
>> Correct. Based on the maximum number of seats, what's the maximum number of seats that with the 2.5 spaces per se without requiring parents? >> Actually, I don't want you on the spot. It's 40.
>> I just say I could probably that real quick if you need me to, but yeah, 40. >> So 40. So just clarification. So based on the parking requirement, a maximum 40 parking spaces, I mean 40 seats. can be permitted in providing 16 parking spaces
on site. What they are saying is they have the additional parking for the church down the road but for the requirements of the ordinance for for parking has to be on site. So a maximum 40 seats should be on the property and
provide 16 parking spaces on site. >> So there's ample amount of parking on the site for what they're proposing. But but just in the reverse >> but but just in terms of if they're thinking about you know expanding down the road >> and what is the max number of seats they
could provide without requiring parking var >> I think we can summarize the four phases that later in this hearing for question purposes I think Mr. Hughes has answered it all, but our concern only is that
park the parking does not overspill into the roadway. It's handled in the parish parking lot and then secondarily in the drip. Seems like I believe that the protocols listed here will work. Obviously, we we want the traffic to
function given that it's there's only one way in and out, only one way out of the site. two ways into the site eventually, but everybody has to go to that light to get it.
EOT is not going to change the green time. Correct, Mr. >> Yes. >> Right. That's that's already been evaluated through our two redevelopment project. We got the second lane there, the left and then the right lane. That was very helpful because instead of a a queue of eight or 10 vehicles, now made
it four and five, five and four, whatever. >> But is DO's Let me say it this way. >> Is DOT's position based upon the anticipated uses that you presented in the redevelopment plan?
>> Yeah, it's so minor compared to Mars Avenue. Their job is to get the Mars Avenue traffic flowing. The minor street traffic not really concerned about that. So, we're not going to be able to change that green time. That's just a practical matter.
My observations when I've seen people for instance the drop off at the school or when the school people there those people know you got seven seconds of green time when that light changes they are flying out of there but they know they've been there. They're there every day. Um so there'll be there might be a
growing pain uh you know where somebody's going to wait two cycles. It's a long when you're waiting for the red there on church mall coming out you're going to get frustrated but there's nowhere else to go. So, um, the numbers that they're presenting again
from a parking perspective are going to work. Again, this is more summary later than than question. >> I have a a followup to my earlier question. I'm I'm I'm looking at a Google maps over here >> of church mall.
>> The housing at the building now is 100 apartments, >> right? >> Plus, there's black slenior citizens building back there also. There's basically could be two ways in. Black Black's Lane is one way going in. >> Yep.
>> And then you have Church Mall, which is two-way. >> Right. >> Coming out, you only have one way, Church Mall. Correct. >> Now you've got 100 apartments being built plus the senior citizens, Blacks Lane. You have all that added traffic
>> trying to get out at a 7-second light on Church Mall. I it doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out that there are on admittedly sat weekends, not during the
week, but weekends where it could get awfully crowded, people waiting to get out of church mall to wherever they want to go. And it's all within a realm of possibility that you get a significant traffic backlog
on church mall since that's the only way out from that that area. >> Yeah. And we again we did take that >> can I just sorry because I just don't want to lose this thought and I think that goes back to what I was trying to say before is that the traffic that is
contemplated in the redevelopment plan is not the traffic that you're talking about if you put this additional use there in terms of the DOT >> into his analysis. >> Right. So we have our projections for for this particular site with our site traffic. We have the existing traffic
counts that we looked at that would account for any traffic with the senior housing. And then we have the traffic study from the new development that's still under construction that we incorporated that traffic into. So our future analysis looks at the traffic for
our site, the traffic for for that 100 units next to us, all the existing background volume, and then an additional two years of background growth on top of that to account for population growth, maybe other area developments. Um, so that's all built in when we when we run this analysis.
>> But you're still concerned about how quick the green is that everything will cue there. >> I actually have a response. You're all familiar with $200. This is something
So we are going to provide some sort of >> Thank you, Mr. M. >> As a practical matter, on Sunday when church lets out, the traffic is going to be much more than this. Somehow it functions. Again, people may be waiting
70 people leave church at once. Probably going to get some people wait two light seconds to get out. >> Very valid point. >> Saturday is going to be less intense than Sunday. Other questions? >> I have a question for Mr. Harris.
>> Okay. So, um, no other questions from our professionals. Any member of the public have any questions for Mr. Hughes? None. Thank you very much. >> Excellent. >> Yes.
>> My question is, can you just walk us a little bit through the registration process? How does somebody become a member of the group that registers and how do you like >> well well you well I know you know my son so my son actually came up with the
development of the website itself >> um he also revamped the plan that we initially had unfortunately when we came before the board years ago I mean yeah two years ago um the site had to be
dismantled in many ways he actually um had to so right now he has a lot of the background information set up so that when we go live um it can be reinstituted. Um but we what we did was
in conjunction with the popup um that just happened with the board of education, we took a lot of learnings from from that combined it with what we had already um experienced in the past and worked
this up. Um, and we we came up with an application that allows people to put all of their information in and it establishes how they going to verify that they are a part of this community
broadly. If they have if they meet those criteria, we verify that paperwork and then they are sent now to a link so that they can register for a time slot and that's the only way to get into the time
slot. So, if somebody, what I'm wondering is if somebody outside of this uh immediate community decides that they want to participate and they join in, how do you prioritize people can in
physically in this community as opposed to people that are outside of town that maybe can join your group? >> Well, if a person doesn't meet that criteria, then they wouldn't they wouldn't qualify at all. So, so it's not a matter of priorit prioritization in
that case. I mean, are you saying like vers like versus a Springfield resident versus somebody who goes to one of the churches that are involved? >> No, I'm saying if somebody says, "Hey, they're they're giving out free meals in
Springfield. I'm going to join this group for the purpose of getting a free meal." How do like how do you police that? >> You can't join. >> That's what I'm saying. I see. >> Right. >> Okay. That that >> that's why I'm saying it's not a matter
of priority in that case. It's whether or not you actually qualify. If you don't qualify, then that person would not even have access to register. You know what I'm saying? For a time slot. >> I understand that. >> But along with that, I'm just curious because something said Springfield
resident. So if they're not a member, but they live in Springfield, they will be denied. >> No. >> Okay. That's what I'm asking. >> Oh, no. Well, Springfield is one of the So, if you're a Springfield resident, you qualify automatically. >> Okay. I just want to make sure. >> Yeah. And one and one of the things
through the popup and through other distributions that I've um been a party to um the truth is even with even with this last one, we just did not have the the flow.
That's that's honest. Right now, I go to Scotch Plains to get food for Springfield residents because they give out food because they get it from the New Jersey Food Bank right here in Hillside, which told them
they have they should give to Union County residents. So, because we don't have one, I go there and I bring food back for people here. I do that every Wednesday. You know, I mean, it's sad that I have to do that. I mean, but that is the reality
>> because there are people here in town that just do not have access to food that cannot always go and um I have I have volunteered myself to go and bring food to those to those families some which are elderly in this town.
>> One thing that was mentioned um I don't know which meeting it was at the point was that by limiting the population you could be hurting yourself with grants and and food reception. Has that been addressed with who you the population you are going to? Do you see a
limitation there or >> we do still we we do see that that limitation probably is still going to exist because we know that we have to meet the standard of the board. That's just the reality. We already know the restriction is to get you guys to say
yes, we had to we have to pull back. But one of the things that we also noticed is all of the people who are donors even in town. If we look at the last distribution that just happened with the popup, it was all the Springfield residents.
They gave all of this food so all of these people, 70 plus families in this town could be fed. Um I just received food from um I don't even know the name of the group. Uh if
you go down Springfield uh South Springfield Avenue, you cross over 22, there's a housing development right to the left. It's a gated community. >> Park Place. >> Park Place. Um I I f I've finally met up with a young man there just just this past uh Thursday.
>> No, it's a different guy. >> It's a different guy. But he he he's he their whole community brought truckloads of food to give away at the um at um Warreno Park. They brought two trucks
loads of food just from that one community and all of the extra they gave to me so that I could continue to distribute amongst the people here that still needed food. >> So you do have resources. >> So we have we know that we have adequate resources. Not only that, we have um
people that constantly reach our site website that want to distribute. I mean uh to contribute um and it's it's it's a lot of people who do want to give. >> The question I have and this is probably softball question to you.
>> You give someone food, how long is that food going to last them? If you someone comes on a Saturday, the first Saturday in the month, how much food do you give them and how long would you expect that to last? Well, that's part of the application process. So, we have we have in the application how many people that
you have in your family. >> So, like we're talking about with the single car coming up and if they have five children, you know, or or seven people family, which we actually actually do, but then we try to make more of a determination to give additional food because right now in
phase one, I know you guys have heard second Wednesday, third Wednesday, fourth I mean four sat Saturdays That's that's not even where we are yet because right now we're still in phase one. We're only planning to do a distribution once a month right now.
>> So that's >> that's but I'm saying the this is where this is how we are ramp amping up so that we can go from a phase one to a phase two to a phase three. A phase one is a simple drive-thru
pickup. of phase two is we start to incorporate to allow people to come in so that they can choose the foods they want. Right now, we're going to give people just what we what we put together, which most most places actually do. That's how they handle it
because they don't know they don't know what these people actually eat. I brought I brought pork to a family just this week that does not eat pork, but that's what they had at the food pantry to give them. So that's I mean of course they rejected it you know but at
the same time this is what I'm saying it's just a matter of us distrib put putting the bags together and giving the food out according to how many people have made made a a claim. So if it's five people that we serve we try to get
more. In fact that's exactly what we did with the popup. We served the popup. We provided we provided 50 turkeys to the popup and we stood and we in the rain and we made sure that people got fed. That's what we chose to do as part
of participating and making sure the Springfield residents are fed. That's what we did. So this is to show our our continued commitment to this. We haven't we haven't tried to drop this
because we think it's a worthy cause and we know that the pressures that so many people are under they continue to be under and we know it's we know it's only getting worse for a lot of people. >> Will you allow any onsite registration
to be able to help people with it if they show up and you have the availability? See, right now we we we're we're not planning to do that at all because we know that it might be a violation and that might get us shut down. But at
South at at at at Scotch Plains, the young man said that he told me he said he knows of two of the pantries that got shut down because they the the towns traffic. We do not want to be in that same
situation. They there are a huge church so they have a huge lot so they have no issues and although there's no police presence the police officer is always on the block. Let me just say that you know so
they're patrolling and there's an officer who sits there and he monitors who's coming up and down the street. So, I mean, I thank God I haven't been stopped, but it I do notice the presence because again, I've been in law enforcement for
25 years. I'm I'm retired now, but you know, you're trained to kind of look at these things. >> Any additional questions? >> Any members of the public have any questions? based upon what you just heard.
>> Thank you. >> But at this time, I'm going to call Robert Hudach, our planner, just to give you guys a little bit more based upon the testimony that we heard today. >> The majority of his planning testimony has already been >> I was previously sworn. Do you want to
swear me again? >> Yes, please. >> Sure. You swear affirm to swear or affirm to tell the truth. >> I do. >> Again, please state your name. You have been previously uh accepted as an expert. >> Thank you. Yes. Robert Hudac, Huda K,
and I'm with the firm of Insight Engineering out of Wool, New Jersey. So, I I just want to summarize my testimony earlier because we've heard a lot of lot of information over the past couple hearings, but what we're here for tonight is really for the D1 variance and for a waiver of site plan approval.
So, specifically related to the D1 variance, as we discussed at the first hearing, I believe, and I I believe we had talked about at length, this is a an inherently beneficial use. falls into that narrow category of uses that the
statute and the the courts have recognized as benefiting the general welfare that simply by the nature of the use we satisfy the positive criteria of the Badichi standards for the D1 variance and there is case law on this including the market street mission
versus the board of adjustment of Aspbury Park. It is also codified in the statute NJSA 5227D 280 uh 281 about food insecurity being a a a beneficial goal of the community.
Now with respect to the other half of any uh variance the the negative criteria the courts have outlined a balancing test called the see balancing test to determine whether or not the public interest is served versus the detriments. So, first we can talk about the public interest served, which I
think is obvious here. The general welfare is served because we are serving the food insecure population of Springfield. Second is the potential adverse impacts and we've heard about uh we've heard testimony about traffic. We've decided to limit the scope of this
use. We're not it's not going to be a free-for-all. We've there are certain conditions that have been imposed which leads to the second prong of the seek the third prong of the balancing test mitigation through conditions. We are amendable and and willing to impose those conditions such as limiting the
number of folks that will be participating in the uh in the dinner segment of this this use. And when you balance the interest against one another uh really and truly there is no question that uh the benefits of this use far outweigh any potential detriments. So
with that um again I believe that the board can grant the variance relief requested. Additionally, we're not seeking to do any construction work or anything else. There's no change of the site plan itself. Therefore, we're requesting the waiver of site plan because logically there is no change to
the site plan and what's existing boomer testimony or the operational manual that previously provided. So, you're you're able to answer any questions that members of the board might have again about the operation specifically. Um, I have no further questions,
>> members of the board, >> our professionals, members of the public, any questions? >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Is there anybody here? While the municipal energies law does
require that it be open to members of the public. Uh many members of the public who are here tonight have already made uh statements to the board in support of this application. I would rely upon those those prior statements and I'd ask the members of the board, members of the public uh when you have
an opportunity to address that please keep in mind that lateness of the hour and we really don't want anything. Uh before we get to opening it to the public, actually let's do that first. Okay. Um let's open it up for anyone any
member of the public wishes to speak on the application. Please come forward. We have none. >> I think that the testimony that you've heard this evening as well as the information that we've provided both in writing and through the testimony at
other uh hearings uh support the granting of the application. You've heard the legal standards as set forth by Mr. Hudac, which is one of the reasons why I hire Mr. Hudac because I don't have time to write all this stuff down or analyze the cases as as he does.
Um but uh this is a inherently beneficial use. We believe that we've met our burdens of proof as to the negative criteria and we'd ask that the board consider this application favorably. Uh we do understand that there are some conditions that we've
agreed to previously and I certainly would um participate as the board comments uh relative to those conditions um because uh we've indicated an agreement uh to most of the conditions that we've previously heard but
obviously if there are some additional ones uh that the board wishes to impose we certainly would be immunable. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, I'm opening it up to the board. >> So, if we were to move forward with this, it gets approved. In their
documentation, it said 20 patrons per hour, we would then provide higher numbers. They went past 20 patrons an hour. They realize our process and they're like, "Okay, we can get through people
in three minutes, so we can open it." >> They're asking for 20, >> right? They're asking for 20, but why why if if in two three months they have that part or organized and they can do 40 instead
of reapplying and change and updating, would they need to come back to us is what I'm trying to understand. >> The board has the ability to do it either way. It's it's up to the board to either approve as applied or if you want to
allow a greater number should that be uh the board's wish you you could do that. >> Question is when we do vote are we voting each individual stage voting the
entire doc the the application is presented to you as an application. >> Again, the board um can fashion an approval if you do so um
in a way that you deem appropriate. Would you like to walk through each phase so that we have on the record what we're all looking for and then work our way towards what could be potential resolution?
>> Yeah, I think that would be >> good. >> Yep. Okay, >> please >> alliance operations drive food distribution first and third Saturday of each month.
Seven volunteers. This is where they stay in their car. Food brought out to them whatever >> any disagreement. I I thought we had talked about in the registration they would be given a a time slot as part of
>> 15 minute time slots is what we heard. So they they book five per 15 minute time slot within the hour. >> Thank you. The amount of time was testified one of the earlier meetings that this stage they're not going to be in that parking
lot for time. words inside one of the volunteers. Now, just for clarity, we talked about agreeing for a police officer. Is that this where does that police officer >> is that stage one? I know we're not the
other stages yet, but is that offered that again maybe as an initial period of operation. Okay. >> It's not needed then. Okay. Second stage class 12 max every single student
how to prepare cook meal that's healthy Third phase is the shopping Saturday coincide on that third Saturday first day. So now people will park enter the
building choose their food as opposed to getting walked out be more selective in what they're going to choose on the pork issue. Are is that going to run parallel though? Is there going to be drive-thru plus people are parking? Right. So, we're going to have
the drive-thru for the 60, right? Five, right? Three hours. Um, and then we'll have and then they'll have the the shopping. >> Okay. >> So, this says maximum volunteers. They have maximum number of patrons. As
they pre-register, I guess they're going to fill those types up. So the max is five plus the what we had on the first phase which was seven and a couple of cars still going to work with the we haven't even talked about what one of the things you could put the volunteers
at the church fourth is the community probably most concerned about that's the fourth Saturday of the month so it's not going to coincide with any of the other is registered Harris Mr. 20 per first
session 20 the second session with the gap in the max this is where maybe the 16 patrons we don't know how many bars that is the
Springfield standard for restaurants amilies coming. You heard yes have the 27. So with the 20 max not 64 but 20 max you can see how this more than 20 up to the 64
you get the full utilization of church if the number of those are your independ No, my concern is limitation. So certainly as they operate
that Springfield probably you're not So another mechanism talk with the say they want to go from 20 to 30. We have the experience of watching them We can report back. This is what they've
asked. Then you can or as we did last Friday, we had the TRC and we needed an outdoor visit. Same board sent three members of the subcommittee to join our TRC which is rare
but you could Jody have a subcommittee that one in the TRC. We don't want to take up more of your time. You don't get paid but So this way it saves the whole board and the applicant all of this effort.
So Mr. Bergen could tie in the reappearance verbage aspect. We're not trying to intercede in this, but it's a low cost way
anticipated question answered without a full board showing up like this. >> So, if we were to write that into the resolution, and forgive me because I'm sure we went over all these numbers multiple times, but what are the maximums for each phase?
>> What I have written on the share alliance operations narrative drive-through The first stage that's where we heard 20 per hour technically five that's how they guess they're going to
register that's >> right but I guess based on the parking what I'm trying to say is based on the amount of parking that's available they could if we were to say okay they could revisit with the TRC up to the maximum
what I know by ordinance, what would those maximums be? >> I I think it would I think quite frankly you'd watch the operation. Somebody would have to watch it on which I'm sure you do your counter.
>> That's a I'm hearing you right. That's a parking deal. >> Yes. If it's a drive-thru, then it's >> which is stage one, >> right? That's what I'm saying. So, is there a formula for a drive-thru? >> No, but if if they're doing five per 15 minute plus your
seven volunteers, you shouldn't exceed 12. Most likely cars you get of the five in the 15 minutes, maybe you only have three coincidence. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, but I guess you were asking like what >> I'm trying to say like okay so if they're queuing and it's like okay well
five cars are queuing but we get to a point where for the hund what was it 756 feet right okay so they're queuing and you say okay well you could fit 10 more cars in that line for that five more
cars for that line for the 15 minutes I'm I'm trying to come up with a maximum as to where the TRC would no longer where they'd have to come back to the board and I don't know if maybe we can do that but I was trying to put write that in
>> right for parking you can I guess the queue >> I don't know how you would So, do we have to put a max number on any kind of >> right now? >> Well, no, we're talking about the drive group. If we if we give them the the
ability to increase it, do we have to So, >> just to clarify the question, um, Mike has suggested a streamlined way for there to be an
increase by way of TRC review. Your question is, can or should the board put a maximum and give the TRC the authority to increase up to a certain particular number? >> Right. Frankly, from a legal standpoint, I
would recommend against that. Though it wouldn't I would I would rather see this board get a recommendation from the TRC and vote on it without the need for a formal application or a presentation. But that
way, this board is in fact voting on on the increase rather than um giving the TRC >> the authority. >> Okay? It it doesn't have to entail all of this. It would just be um the
applicant goes to the professionals, they review it, send a recommendation to this board that can then be voted on at a meeting. This I've been here a long time. We I've never had this process. I didn't know how the process works. >> And I don't I don't think you want to
leave no upper limit. >> Well, no. I I I anticipate the resolution will set the limits as per the proposed operating uh uh process and then if it becomes feasible to increase that the this board
could allow the TRC to review the facts and make a recommendation. >> Well, if worked successfully and then they want to increase it to say the second and fourth Saturday as well, they can do that through the TRC and not come back. No, they would have to come back to vote. They would give their
recommendation. >> The TRC would give the recommendation to the board, >> right? It would just be the >> No, it just it would be just a direct vote. Correct. >> No, we're not talking about adding days. >> I'm saying if there was an alteration to
this after if it was approved, >> they go through the TRC and then the TRC provides a recommendation to the board. >> Right. >> Yes. But we're talking about I thought we were talking about only the increase in the volume the the >> it's working and they're like okay we
want to do every Saturday >> that would be different >> right we're talking about if they at the meal they decide that you know what's working well let's put 35 people here and based on our experience can we add people >> okay and then also with regard to the
word drive >> I I think we already we already discussed this, right? >> It's a not forprofit. So, >> right. It's Yeah, >> we addressed that. >> Really? A drive up. >> We we addressed that. >> Mhm.
>> So, if we move forward, we're moving forward as is with the caveat. >> Correct. >> If that's what we want. >> I'm trying to give Mara your your your what you're trying to anticipate. I'm trying to give you mechanism that's
easier than the cut and dry >> doing all the >> full full board applications. >> I'm in favor of that >> because I think what's going to happen is if it doesn't work and there's a backlog and it goes down Mars Avenue. Okay, that's going to have to be
addressed. If it does work and registration and boom boom boom they're moving along and they have the food and bandwidth, they're going to look to increase it. >> And experience will bring efficiency. Exactly. they might be able to. >> But but to that point, let's say based on these numbers,
it doesn't work. There's too much traffic. Does the board have the right to decrease these numbers? That's something to consider, too. I mean, is it police determination that there's too much traffic based on these numbers? Um,
I don't know. That's thought to happen. >> Did you say, Bruce, that we can't resend it? >> Right.for Yeah, >> more than 20 cars. >> I could be wrong. >> Madam Chair, may I participate in this conversation? >> Yes, you may, Mr. Mayorman.
>> Thank you so much. Um, I would anticipate based upon the suggestion of Mr. Disco that um we would be making an amended application. We would have we would have to formally file an amended uh an amendment to our application for the increases based upon what you all
have done. based upon the TRC process. Then we would present our data to the TRC on our amended application. The TRC makes recommendations to the planning board, make recommendations to this board. So in essence, it becomes an administrative approval, but it still
has to come before the board. So we can live with the we certainly we put these numbers on. We put these limitations on. So we believe that these are appropriate for now. If we find after three months
of experience uh that we are underserving the community and that more volume can be handled uh let's say we get it down to seven and a half minutes a car instead of 15 minutes a car we'll know that right because we're going to
be monitoring it ourselves for that purpose and then we will present our data I don't think we're going to bring Mr. use back on it, but we'll present our data as the volunteers have presented to the TRC and then they would then bring a recommendation to the board with our
amended request. We would appear simply because the municipal land use law, if you're going to vote on anything, requires public participation. But obviously with the TRC recommendation and the discussions that we've had now and the resolution that I'm sure Mr. Bergen is going to tie up with a nice
bow and buttons. Um we'll we'll have that framework and so we can come in and say, "Okay, we're here today simply because we need to increase this to 30 cars an hour instead of the 20 cars and here's the experience and here's the recommendation on the TRC. Thank you
very much. And we're ready to go. But we won't have to go through all of the D1 proofs because we've met that you have granted that use variance with the condition. So when we come back, we're asking you to modify the condition. Are there other limitations?
Oh, there are other limitations. Are we putting those all into the record right now? >> Um, I'm I'm not sure. that I can I don't there have been a number of uh
restrictions that were discussed some of them don't apply anymore because the process has changed um I I will go through the record and they will be in the resolution and the board can at that just a resolution if if any of the
conditions are missing or if any of them board wants wants to remove. I know we don't normally do it that way, but this has been a >> I just think most importantly, right, and I know obviously this is part of today's discussion is that we are limiting it to the Springfield residents
and members and that will have to be part of the resolution. >> That was put on the record today and that will be a condition. >> There was no large delivery truck. delivery on Saturday.
>> Yes. >> I guess here right now is there other other limitations that the board wants to make sure that are noted on the record um in case they weren't made part of the previous hearings. >> I can give you one that we would like to
make sure The one uh condition that uh I think that uh should be reflected uh is the condition that no large popup events um are being approved by this application and that if there is a
request for a large event that goes outside of the scope of what we have gotten approved that we will either need to make application to the municipality through the event process um or uh we would have to come back uh
before the board. But if we do the an event there uh at the site uh it will require us if it's going to be a popup uh to get the approval of the municipality as with all other similar assembly type of events.
Tell me again again make it. >> So we one of the concerns that were raised was what happens if all of a sudden we have a large truckload of turkeys that community food bank wants to get rid of and they want to do it at
our food bank. we can't because of the limitations you've all placed on us. First off, we just talked about no large tractor trailers, right? So, um if that type of popup event is going to be done by the
share alliance, it's going to be coordinated with the municipality andor the board of ed to use their property and not this property >> in notice for that. we would >> okay I'm like I don't want you turning
that away because of this situation >> on once you all approve this application and the community food bank and the public uh is made aware of the existence of share alliance uh operation here uh
if you build it they will come uh the vendors will be contacting them uh we saw this and and Mr. Bergen and I spent many hours uh packing boxes uh during COVID when I was working uh at the county. Uh actually that's they made us
go to do that. They said don't come to work, go pack boxes. Right. So um so that's what happens with these kind of events that they reach out and they say, "Hey, we the the vendor or the community food bank, they're the ones who are behind that." And so they will know who
to contact, etc. And once they do that, once they they land with us, uh then share alliance is going to figure out how to uh process uh that request. But but it is not anticipated. It is not part of this application. I know we when
like the first time we we talked about this, we talked about running events like this and how that goes. Um but it's a matter of refinement of the program and and over the last four months obviously you've all seen how we've refined the program. So I'll leave it at that.
Um my thought would be and maybe the other professionals want to uh give their opinion but if if an if it is an event that is not at this site then it is not limited by
this approval. This is sight specific. It is not specific to to the share alliance. It's specific to the sherines process at this site. So if you're talking about doing it on municipal property or board of ed property, I I
don't think it needs to be accepted in this uh resolution because that's doesn't have anything to do with this. I agree. >> Sight specific. >> By law it is.
>> Yeah. No, the limitation would be sight spec specific for no event. Well, but by virtue of the limits set by the resolution, >> anything above that that the sherines may want to do can't be at this site or
they're violating the pool. Any other conditions from the board? >> We have the condition about the jobs for blue necessary.
>> Um my understanding from Mr. Disco is that will be as needed. Yeah. I mean, I think it should >> they want to do it initial weekend or two. I mean, >> right. And then at the discretion of the department, that's fine.
>> Mhm. Okay, with that, uh, I think we need a motion by a member of the board. I'll second, but I just like to say that I think what you're doing is terrific and I hope you understand that we're
we're here just to protect the town the best we can and know I think we're all on the same team. >> I'll second. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, any other business? You're welcome. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion. >> Great. All in favor?