Go ahead and call this meeting to order. Uh, welcome to our council meeting. In the interest of time efficiency and ensuring that everyone who wishes to address the council is given the opportunity to do so, the following will apply to all comments made by the public. Each speaker will be allotted three minutes to address the council unless unless such time is extended by
the mayor or by questions from council. group shall designate a spokesperson to avoid repetition of comments. Every effort will be made to avoid interrupting speakers. Thank you for participating in your city government. And I now call this meeting to order. And will everybody please stand for a
moment of silence and a pledge of allegiance? >> Thank you. I allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> All right. And city manager, do you have an agenda update? >> I have no updates. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. And presentations. We have no presentations. We will So, we're going to talk about the other things at the end of the meeting, right? from the last from the workshop. All
right. And so consent agenda. Next portion of tonight's meeting is consent agenda which contains items that have been determined to be routine and non-controversial. If anyone in the audience wishes to address a particular item on the consent agenda, now is the opportunity to do so. Additionally, if staff or members of the city council
wish to speak on a consent item, they have the same opportunity. Will the clerk please please read resolution number 2025-143R number one? >> You want you want to read each of the consented items in >> Oh, no. I'm sorry. It's a consent.
>> Yeah. >> Nope. We're good. Uh does council have any any consent items they want to talk about? Felt like I was at the end of the meeting already because we've been in here since 3. All right. And can I get a motion? If no
discussion, uh, would anyone in the item in the audience like to speak on the consent agenda? All right. And councelor >> motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Motion to approve. Council member Urban. >> Second. >> Second from council member Paul. >> Madam clerk, please call the role.
>> Council member Fletcher. >> Hi. >> Council member Paul. >> Hi. >> Council member Urban. >> I. >> Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> I. >> Mayor Robertson. >> I. >> Motion carries 5-0. >> All right. Next up, we have the citizens forum. Any person who desires to comment on any item not on this agenda is
provided this opportunity to address the city council. Each person is requested to complete a sign-in form to be provided to the providing officer prior to or as soon as their practical practical thereafter. The address the person addresses the council will the
let's see we have Mark Kesler is it Keslov Kesv? >> Kesler. Yes. >> Kesler. Yes sir. Gotcha. Well, good evening everybody. Um, well, some of you might know me. Uh,
I'm just going to read everything I wrote here. Uh, my name is Mark Kesler. I'm a veteran teacher here in Ociola County here at Michigan Avenue Elementary for 31 years. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um,
and I've been a resident here for 25 years. I'm standing here tonight to ask that you consider spending more money to place another speeding camera just past the light of our school entrance.
There's a if some of you know there's a there's a a a church right there, right? And then just beyond it, I stay at on the left hand side. I stay at the pedestrian gate every morning from 8:50 uh 7:50 to 8:10.
And every morning I see cars speeding in the 15 mile hour zone going southbound and I just think that's absurd. Like I understand those cameras cost a
lot of money. Okay, there's a camera just coming past the bus barn when you get to the blinking light. Okay. And the cars start to slow down. And then there's two other cameras on uh Michigan Avenue right by the high school
and 17th Street. But we need another camera because like this morning I took a video this car going at least 35 or 40 miles an hour going southbound. Now, how is that going to be right?
So, I'm asking you to consider it because as a a you know a you know a staff member at the school, I got this morning during my duty, I got 12 parents to sign this petition that see this
every morning when they come and see me and bring their kids to school. So, I don't know if you want this or not and everything like that, but I can continue to get petitions because I know you might need a certain amount, but like >> you're saying another speed camera.
>> Yes. And I know it's not there's not a sidewalk there, but I mean, what's the purpose of having a 15 mile zone if they're not going to enforce that 15 mile zone? And I know I've called
the chief and asked them, "Can you have an officer there?" And I know that their manpower is, you know, few and uh spread apart, but and I know that the other day I talked to an officer right there on 17th Street, but it's I know it's just
not enough. So, I don't know if we can take one of the cameras from the 17th Street that there's there's one, but that we can take it and bring it down a little bit by our school. >> I'm gonna let the police chief speak on those cameras. He knows more about those.
>> Uh, good evening, council. Doug Gerky, police chief. Um, those those cameras are actually in the Michigan corridor, so I'm not I'm not sure what we're speaking about. Um, I didn't get a chance. I was just trying to pull up the data, but I assure you those speeders, anyone that's moving above the 11 mph and over right now are getting
citations. >> They caught some people twice. I mean, in one of the things Yeah. So, at one point we had the the duplicate cameras in there and what they were doing was um hitting the same driver twice in the same period. So, I know that uh we've looked at that, but I know they're
entering from the north and the southbounds of the schools areas. Um and it's actually catching catching quite a bit of people. Um, I can clearly look up the data right now for you and actually get you all that information, but I assure you based on the phone calls I'm receiving right now, people are definitely getting citations. Um, some
some many several citations um in those areas. >> You'll probably see the results of that, you know, because as they start getting tickets, you got to come up, Mark. Mark, you got to come up to the podium if you're going to come. >> We got to get everything on recording. I'm sorry. on that microphone. >> I've asked my resource officer and he
says it's only going it's only where the camera's facing which is facing if it's going from the bus farm right by that blinking light. It's only facing the the license plate this way. There's no camera getting the cars going southbound toward me >> from the light. >> There should be one on the north and
south. It captures in two different directions. >> I don't see one. >> There was Okay, >> but maybe I'm wrong. >> I can talk to you after this, sir. We'll figure it out. >> No, that's okay. I I know that you're helpful and and everything like that. So, but I just wanted to bring it to your attention. So, if there needs to be one that
>> it can be taken care of because it's looking out for the safety of our students at both the middle school and the elementary as well as for the community because I I mean even the parents even see this every morning. >> Yes, sir. Yeah. I believe those cameras are what six months old about. And the
data we're getting the data we're getting is staggering of the people still speeding and we put it out on social media all the time. So, they're getting a $100 citation every single time. >> I know one person just got five citations and they're calling and screaming at me. So, I I assure you it's work. The system is working. But I'll make sure I'll be happy to speak to you
offline here and we'll >> Sure. >> discuss it. >> I appreciate it. I know you're very nice and helpful. >> Yeah, absolutely. That's what I'm here for. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mark. Appreciate you, sir. >> All right. And Council Member, I'm sorry, Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> Uh, thank you very much. I I heard
Councilman uh Fletcher said coach when when you walked up. So I appreciate all you do for the kids and >> those petitions that I got. >> No, we don't need any of that. Also, I would like to tell you that uh our chief is doing a wonderful job. We put security cameras everywhere and we we'll
continue to improve. >> But but thank you for coming up. >> Thank you for coming up and thank you for your service as a coach and a teacher. Uh it's heartfelt. So that's the only comment I have. Appreciate you, Mark. >> All right. Next up, we got we got Mr.
Gordon Brown. >> Yeah. Can we bring the mic to Do we have a a portable microphone? >> Well, we got to get a microphone on you, Gordon. >> Well, you you squeeze through there. Uh Gordon Brown, 90012th Street.
The hoping to figure out a way to deal with excessive trash uh from the new grocery store. If you drive down 12th Street, there is always bags and stuff and it ends up in my yard. And I'm pretty sure I could get some other
people to come in also. I have not taken pictures. I'll be glad to do it if it helps convince you. U but daily we have to clean up a large amount of trash. I called I think his name is Shawn in the trash for lack of a better word trash division
and he said there's nothing uh he can do uh because it's a private hauler. He said the right answer is that they have to have compactors. uh you just for example today the the lids are almost up at a 90 degree angle
so they're overfilling. I've gone into the store twice asking is there anything they can do. Oh yeah you manager wait here you know that kind of stuff. And uh so I'm I'm stumped unless you all have
power. That's what Sean suggested do is bring it to you all. Maybe you have power to make them get a compactor. um or run fencing around it or I don't have a clue. And uh
I'd love to do city uh old hotel next week so I don't wear out my welcome. >> The city manager has something to add to your comment, sir. >> Okay, great. >> So, um um I'm going to go ahead and have code enforcement go look at it. I I just wanted to Where is where on 12th Street? Can you
tell me the the state names? >> Ohio and Indiana. Okay. >> And one more closer to town, whatever that one is. >> Okay. >> Um, >> yeah, I've already filed a complaint with code enforcement and same thing.
They were curious if they have any jurisdiction over that. >> So, so legal myself and code enforcement will get with solid waste public works and and and try to find a solution for you. And then >> needs to be the management that manages
the property. For example, if the grocery store had a broken pipe, they'd call somebody other than Mr. grocery store owner. >> Well, the property owner is the one who would get a code enforcement citation. So, >> all right. Appreciate
you manage it better. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Thank you, Gordon. Appreciate you, sir. All right. Anyone else in the audience like to speak on the cons on the citizens forum? All right, moving on to public hearings. Will the clerk please read public hearing number one?
>> Final public hearing for resolution number 2025-097R. A resolution of the city council of the city of St. Cloud, Florida establishing a final adorum tax millillage for the city of St. Cloud for fiscal year 2025 2026. The same being adopted prior to the adoption of the final budget for set
period. Jeff Cooper, finance director. If this thing is not cooperating, Jay, help me out here. >> There you go. >> Okay. Um, this is the final hearing for the
adorum tax millillage. And as per Florida statute 200.065, 065. Two public hearings are required in order to adopt a final advorum tax millage of 5.1128, which is 6.27%
above the roll back rate of 4.811. And the roll back rate, as a reminder, is the same tax dollars assessed as the previous tax year, not including new construction. Uh the increase in taxable values for existing properties is not considered
for adorum tax. Oops, went too far. Sorry, this thing is not cooperating. Okay. Uh, so one mil equals $1 in tax per
thousand of assessed value. Property taxes are calculated by multiplying the assessed taxable value uh property value by the millage rate and dividing by a th00and. So an example of with our millage rate of a property tax value of
100,000 uh would result in a city tax bill of $51128. Went too far again. U this is the 13th consecutive year with no increase. Um so as a more realistic example uh $250,000
in tax value would result in advorum taxes of $1,278 for the city. Um general fund budget highlights. Um there's a 1% cost of living increase and
a 3% pay adjustment for uh all staff uh which is 1.144 million public safety union contracts which also call for the same uh percentage of increases 834,925 13 new positions eight of those being
public safety uh increase in police and fire operating costs of 1.2 2 million increase in public safety pension costs of nearly $1.5 million and increase in health benefit costs of $474,000. It keeps going.
Okay, these are the new positions. Uh we have two new school resource officers. Um they're newly funded. The positions actually already exist. And then we have four new police officers, a public
educator slashinsspector, a planner uh associate, two streets maintenance workers, a senior trades worker for bricks, a part-time park ranger, and a part-time grants assistant. And staff are recommending approval of
resolution 2025-097R. War requesting city council approval of resolution 2025-097R. >> All right, Jeff, why was this why is it broken out separate from the budget if it talks about the additional staff we're hiring? What's the purpose of
that? Why why would you have the staff in there? What's is that? >> Just to justify why the increase the the 6.27% 27% increase while why we're maintaining the same millage rate.
>> Okay? >> And it's required by statute for you for this and the budget to be separate and voted on. This has to be voted on first before the next one. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Anyone in the audience like
to speak on this item? Council discussion. >> Motion to approve resolution 202597R. >> We have a motion app to approve from council member Urban. >> Second. >> Second from Council Member Paul. Madame Clerk, please call the RO. >> Council member Paul.
>> I. Council member Urban. I. >> Deputy Mayor Gilbert. I. >> Council member Fletcher. Hi. >> Mayor Robertson. I. >> Motion carries 5. Will the clerk please read item number two? >> Final public hearing for resolution number 2025-098R. A resolution of the city council of the
city of St. Cloud, Florida, establishing a final budget for the city of St. Cloud for the fiscal year 20 2025 2026. The same being adopted following the adoption of the fi final mill rate for said period. >> Jeff Cooper, finance director. Uh before we start this, if you'll indulge me for
one moment, um I do need to thank uh all the parties that were involved in this uh with the city manager leadership, my fellow directors and their staff, uh the finance committee, which I failed to mention at the first meeting last week.
Um and this process starts like it started eight months ago. So um and it involved um meetings with the directors and the city manager. The city manager sent several of us back to our respective drawing boards numerous times
uh to make this as efficient as a a budget as possible. We had indivi individual meetings with each of you uh which was something that we've not done in the five years that I've been here. So that was particularly helpful. um the finance committee budget workshop as
well as the city council budget workshop. So um thank you to everyone involved and then of course like my staff who um help put this all together. So as per Florida statute 166.241,
the city is required to adopt a budget each fiscal year by ordinance or resolution. The amount available from taxation and other sources, including balances brought forward from prior fiscal years, must equal the total appropriation for expenditures and reserves. In other words, the adopted
budget must balance, which it does. Oh my goodness, it's malfunctioning. There there was supposed to be another slide in here then. Oh my god. Okay, here we go. Uh, so this
is a total budget of $214.8 million. This is a 31.5% decrease from the current fiscal year. The primary reason for that is because of the public safety uh projects that were funded this fiscal year uh which
are of course not part of the next year's budget because they already have the funding for those. Uh also all departments had an operating budget decrease with the exception of police uh and fire and information technology.
Uh so this is a breakdown of of the budget. General fund is 41% of your budget. The the red one is actually special revenue funds
and that encompasses the utility tax fund toho uh OU uh those revenue sources. Um and then capital projects is very small this fiscal year. And our
internal service funds as you see there are 7% of our budget. That's our self- insurance health fund, our self- insurance workers comp fund, and our motorpool. Jesus Christ. Okay. General fund uh revenue sources.
As you can see, Adalorum is 37% of our revenue. So, it's a critical revenue source for us. Uh the second biggest one is other revenue sources at 29% and those are the aformentioned special
revenue funds. So we get 12.2 million from OEC in the interlocal revenue sharing. We're getting $6.1 million from the Toho interlocal fund and we're getting 4.4 million from the
uh utility tax fund. Um, expenditure-wise, as you can see, police and fire are 34% and 24% respectively. So, 58% of our general fund budget of 87.9 million is dedicated
to public safety. That percentage will likely increase as uh growth continues and we add firefighters and police officers. um in the future. Uh our general government is 24%
and that is the rest of us. Uh outside of parks and wreck is the green. Um I'm not sure why that is not showing but it's 10% of the budget is parks and wreck. So these are the key focus areas in our
strategic plan. So under diverse and magnetic economic development, we have the downtown public private partnership mixeduse project which is in process. Centennial park improvements also in
progress and the downtown signage pro project which is ongoing. >> Centennial Park, that's the bathrooms. >> That is correct. >> Thank you. uh under high performing government we have 16 total new positions. We have the
citywide 1% colon 3% pay adjustment that is in line with the city of CMI and we're always um in competition with other localities for the best quality staff. Uh security services for city hall um the finance committee have to
give them credit for insisting that be part of our budget. So you will see um additional security for city hall um in the months to come. Chief Gerky is leading that effort. Uh some backup appliances for data protection for IT to
support our cyber security effort and the initial funding for a future enterprise resource planning system basically a new financial system. So, our first million dollars of what will likely be closer to $4 million has has
been put into a project for that. And we're in the process working with the Government Finance Officers Association uh to uh create our RFP for that. >> All right, Jeff, does the um Can you go back? Sorry. I think it's easier if we if y'all have any questions as we go
along. So, I mean, there's a there's a lot to unpack here. Um the security services does that include a metal detector and a security rent uh what do you call it? Ren renov >> the contractor security contractor.
>> Yes sir. >> Yes. >> That's that's ball security. There's a movie about that. >> We get Paul Bart here. >> Yes sir. That is correct. >> Okay. Anything else on that one?
>> Uh the 16 new positions, that's citywide. >> That is citywide. That's the 13 in the um general fund of which eight are public safety. And there's also three driver collectors for sanitation to support the new areas.
>> May I ask a question, may or may? >> Yeah, absolutely. You guys jump in with >> I understand the cola that that's understandable. In the 3% pay adjustment, uh how was that determined by? Was it um different local governments? How did the 3%
adjustment I I just don't know. >> Um that's a an experience adjustment if you will and the primary one of the drivers behind that is our public safety contracts already call for that for our public safety employees. So it was the
city manager's goal to make sure everyone is getting the same thing. >> Okay. So the >> plus we're competing with Cassini which >> fire and police involved with that also. >> Correct. They're they're contracted. So they get a 1% cola and a 3% pay
adjustment. So now everyone in the city is getting exactly the same thing. >> Okay. >> And that's this is exactly what CSM's given to their staff as well. >> Thank you for the explanation. I just didn't know where we came up with the 3% but thank you. I I believe the county
also is is doing the same if I remember correctly. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure about the county, but you know, we're trying to sort of keep up with um inflationary pressures and the market for jobs and what
>> there was one time in my life that I my next door neighbor bought a new car and I couldn't afford it. But I didn't buy a new car because I wouldn't want my adjust with a new car. Just couldn't afford it. So I I just need explanation. So So thank you very
much for for for that. So keeping up with the Joneses, I guess what we would say with with the 3%. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else have questions? Just jump in and ask. I mean, let's keep it kind of there's a lot of information that we need to go through here. So well Jeff that Jeff has to go through.
>> Uh under the key focus area of effective community safety. Uh again, the eight newly funded new and newly funded public safety positions. um construction of the public safety complex phase one which was funded in
this fiscal year. um as well as fire station 35 and 36 uh both all three funded with the bond proceeds um which um just so you know the city's bond rating did increase to
doublea so we're the third highest rating and generally the second highest that most cities are going to get with the exception of very small cities like around areas such as Palm Beach get AAA but um we're at we're at double A for both S&P and Moody's which is an
increase over 2018. >> Council member Urban, >> um can I just ask a quick question? I'm sorry. Um what um what is a public educator slashinsspector? >> It's a fire inspector that's also doing public education. It should probably say
fire inspector educator. >> Is >> that like when they do the inflatable house? >> Somebody teaching people fire chief. Sorry. >> Jason Miller, fire chief. Um, the public
safety educator, Inspector position. It's a dual role position. We use it to obviously for all the special events that we go out to with the public safety house where we go to the schools. Um, last year I think we did 9,000 elementary age school children. We taught them exit drills in the home. We
brought our camper trailer out to some, but we also bought the inflatable house this last year. So, we're able to get through these schools and as we grow, get more students, the demand is there. Um, we're probably tracking an increase in public relations requests and a lot
of times um three four a week sometimes. So, this position is going to be critical when it comes to reaching out for October the special events on the weekends. The inspector portion um of this is where we're going to actually save a little bit of money because we won't have to bring our inspectors in on
overtime on Saturdays. This person's schedule is Tuesday through Saturday as opposed to the typical Monday through Friday. Um so all those special events and those safety checks that we do on on the uh food trucks and stuff like that. This personal handle as well keeps >> the marshall from going out.
>> Is that a little bit takes a load off? Um takes a load off him and his two the two other inspectors. Okay. Mayor, when I was younger, uh, did you guys go to the schools to do the public safety stuff? Because when I was younger, they used to tell us to duck
underneath our desk in case a nuclear bomb was coming up. >> Well, but >> that's about the same time the tablets came down from the mountain. >> Run. Is that I mean, >> we literally we go and set up for two days at the different elementary
schools. Um, and we're out there running all the school age kids through either the inflatable house or the camper house, you know. >> Awesome. >> Crawl under smoke, get out, stay out, call 911, don't go back in for your pet, don't go back in for your family, let us do our job when we get there. Um, that
kind of thing. Um, so it's it's a really beneficial program. Um, >> is stop, drop, and roll still a thing? That's what they taught. >> It is, but you know, they they've kind of backed off on teaching that quite so much. Um, there's some reasons behind that, but I can't really I don't want to
get into those right now here. Um, but yes, um, stop, drop, and roll. Still an effective manner of putting yourself out if you're on fire. >> Not if you're in the middle of a cactus field. You don't want to do that. >> Yeah, you got to pick your poison. I'm just saying a few quills or getting burned up. I think I'll take the quills.
>> Thank you, Chief. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, sir. >> All right, Jeff. >> Thank you. Uh, also the purchase of a new fire engine, a purchase of a new ambulance, replacement of 17 public safety vehicles, and uh, some storm
water improvements on Tennessee Avenue and 17th Street. That was also funded this fiscal year, but that work continues. And we did that one keeps this thing is not cooperating. Sorry. Uh, effective
transportation network. Uh we have the Lasal Avenue extension, the Ruml road round roundabout, some additional parking for Lakeshore, master plan paving and some additional paving which is funded with franchise fees. So this
is the first uh project funded with those. And with that, uh, staff is recommending approval of resolution 2025-098R, and we're requesting city council approval of the same.
Any additional questions? Uh, anyone from the audience like to speak on this item? >> Question. >> Yeah, you have to come to the microphone. We'll get you a mic. Give one second. Gordon, >> I'll pass on. >> That's all right. We'll get you a microphone. >> No, we'll get one to you here. Hold on a second. Just take a second. Being a
newcomer to St. Cloud, sorry, >> is there a workshop or anything for budget saving issues every year? Do you, you know, do you say do we need volunteer firemen? Do you say why is this the cost? Is that a workshop? Is
the public allowed to do something like that? >> I'll let the city manager answer that if she'd like. So yes, we have a budget workshop with the city council um where we go through the budget in detail and we also have a finance committee um that's made of citizens and they meet
quarterly and go over our budget go over our finances um and they also go through the budget initially so that they can make recommendations to the city council before their workshop. >> But someone like me couldn't go. >> They're all public meetings. >> Oh, they are. >> They're all public meetings.
All right. Anyone else in the audience like to speak on this item? Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> Jeeoff, I just like to thank you. I I I I truly believe you do a great job and you you really uh you you spend the taxpayer money like it's yours and
that's the coolest thing ever. Uh when you have that, that's a good thing. So, I just like to thank you for that and have a budget decrease in today's ever rising budgets. uh health went up 7%. Uh
Tohjo went up, OU went up, and we just decreased. So, uh you and your staff and all the staff. So, I I I I don't know how to explain it, but being a business owner, I I certainly appreciate you and your effort. So, that's an only comment, not a question, uh mayor, and I yield back to you.
>> All right. Thank you, sir. >> All right. I have a few questions. Um, one, I I'd like to talk about council contingency. I I don't know that I'm comfortable not having a council contingency. I think there sure should be a fund there that the council does have discretion. Uh, if if something
comes up and not changing it from whatever you're changing it to, >> it's it's still your contingency. It's just not within the council's um budget number. It's still it's general fund contingency. So, it's still there. You
still have to act on it. It still requires a budget amendment and it's 100% under your control. >> And it's $500,000. >> So, what's the difference between con council contingency and not general fund? Why would why why the change
>> if it didn't change? >> I was instructed to do so, sir. >> Well, I'm just Is there any There was no change whatsoever. It's the same just changing a name. >> It was just for clarification. >> That is correct. Clarification of >> you know that it's not actually part of
your regular city council budget. It's separate and what it's meant for like hurricanes, unexpected events. That's what it's meant for. But >> well, I mean, we've seen where it was trying to be used for other things. So that's why I I got confused this whole
I'd say the past, you know, time on here that it's not really just been for hurricane. So >> what is the purpose of it? >> It's for whatever you wish, sir. Whatever the council's desire to use it for is >> I think we we keep it as council
contingency. I think that's we'll keep it the way it was. I think that's the way it's been. Um >> that will require a budget amendment to do that, sir. But okay, if that's the direction, that's what we'll do. It's It's all it's doing is changing. So now
it's under account 0019,000 instead of 001,000. It still requires a budget amendment. It is still 100% under your control. >> Okay. I I just think when it when it gets brought up in the
>> chief Oh. Oh. >> Uh fire chief. Yes, sir. Um, just put things in perspective, one of the line items that we have to answer for the safer grant is that all contingency item or dollar values have
to be assigned somewhere. It's assigned specifically. >> So, if you're assigning to a council contingency and it doesn't have a assigned purpose use, we're going to have to record that and that could hurt us in the future for getting safer grant.
>> But it's been council contingency. But that's one of the steps we could take by having it assigned as a named value. So like we're Mr. Cooper was saying, oh, it's there for hurricanes. It has to have an assigned name to it. It can't just be open for use. And
that's one of the changes that >> Well, that's the problem I have with that because then we can't use it for anything else other than a hurricane. What if we don't have a hurricane? >> You could Well, you could do that. You're not assigning it then, >> but you can say at any time, I'd like to use this money for this. >> It's but it's through a budget amendment or through your action. But we I
particularly as far as my department would need those funds spelled out as a dedicated something. >> Okay? >> It can't just say contingency because that throws up all kinds of flags. >> It was a re that was a recent safer change. >> That was a recent safer change. Okay. So,
>> well, and that would have been helped obviously if I had that information right a long time ago. It just dawned on me when when the question came up. So, under the safer thing, it it wants to know any unassigned contingency funds. >> So, are we getting the safer money?
>> Don't know yet. >> Your lips your lips to God's ears. That's all I'm saying. I mean, but no, one of the reason >> if if it's going to hurt us, don't don't worry. I don't want to hurt us, but I wish I knew that information before we walked in here today to vote on, you
know, this this budget. That's >> well and and that that was new and that came out in what July when we applied for the safer grant. That was the first time we had seen that question. >> Okay. Thank you, Chief. >> Jeff, do you have an organizational
chart for the city? >> Not with me. We don't have one in the budget. >> There will >> I've seen it in years past and and I' >> Right. There will be one in the final budget book. Yes, sir. And there's was one in last year that's provided to us by human resources.
>> Okay. Can can does somebody have an organizational chart? Do we have one made for the city as we currently have our directors and everybody? >> Just >> Yes, please. >> Yes, please.
Yeah. And I I'm trying to get an understanding of where we are at this point because I know you've said director all directors report to you except for the fire chief. And that's where I want to see where these administrative positions lie or shouldn't lie, you know. So we don't
have administrative positions anymore. We don't have any departments under any directors any any say under Scott because all all departments directors report to you. They report to me, but Scott helps oversee. >> Well, he can oversee,
>> right? And Justin also helps oversee um it, >> but I don't want to see a department underneath their name. >> Gotcha. >> I don't think that's in accordance with the charter. I It's not. It says a person. Doesn't say director, an administrator, this that we have to
clean this place up. and and and now that we're talking about that, you know, because the one employee that we had was never qualified to be in that position, never been a director, should never been over two directors. And we've seen what
happened when that happens. And um Justin, we got something. And the other thing, if we've got Scott overseeing a number of I I mean Scott's amazing. Scott, I I told you you just
this past week. Every time I walk by your office, I probably give you three or four think customer or um citizens comments or complaints and and you jump right on me and I appreciate that and I never ask you to stop what you're doing, but you do it anyway. Um but I think Scott's enough of a deputy or an
assistant. I don't think we need another assistant. I think we're way too topheavy on the third floor here. And I think that's a lot of the problems because if the directors report to you then I think Scott should be in on all the information as well and and I think you can do a successful job with that. I
really don't think we need another person up here um because that's what happens. I mean we've seen a pattern this past six months where multiple departments have um there's been issues.
So, the strategic plan um administration is is a a a majority of the work that we need for that additional person. Um I mean, if city council doesn't want it to
be at an assistant city manager level, um we can go back and and and see, but we would need somebody for the strategic plan administration. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I I just think that's a lot of money to to throw up
into a position that we saw what we got out of the last guy and and that that definitely wasn't worth the bang for our buck. So, thank you, Justin. >> Yes. Um I just spoke with Jay. They cannot pull it up on the screen. I can
I'll have to print a copy and put it on the projector down there. So, I'll have to run down and get it to show you the structure that um is currently in place. So, if you give me a few minutes, I can do that. Okay. I I'm just trying to understand I mean the the from the top down what the city looks like and I I don't see it in the budget and that's
you know there's there's a lot of money we're voting on and I don't know the the flow of of the organization and and that that's what bothers me because I've looked at CMI's budget and they've got like seven or eight charts and last year's budget had a chart and I want to see what positions we're committing to.
our final budget book last year and this year will has all of that information in there. Sir, >> yeah, I saw last year's, but it's different now. >> There's We don't have our final budget book until this meeting is over and then
we start like working on it. All you've had so far is the the budget workshop book. Um, we perhaps we did not put a an organizational chart in there. We can do that next year certainly. Well, I I think I just want to know what positions that that we're funding here. You know,
I think that's important to to know how this is running. >> There was a position breakdown in the city council budget workshop book. >> Can you tell me? >> And it's by department number or I can send you a report that lists every single person and their position
and their salary if >> Yeah, I didn't see that. >> You want >> Which one had the positions? You said in the budget it had the position >> in in the city council budget workshop book from a month two months ago or whenever
that was. Um there was a breakdown. It's just pure numbers. >> But I think things have changed since then. >> It's numbers. No, sir. I do not believe so. >> Well, we're not going to have administrative positions. >> What do you I'm not certain what you're speaking of. Administrative
>> directors are going to report to the city manager. There's not going to be that extra layer of it. >> Yeah. Who reports to who on this on that form? It's pure numbers. Finance department has this many in finance and this many in accounting. Procurement has this many in each division. Human
resources. It's it's not that that report is pure numbers. >> Yeah. What I was looking for was the actual position that's funded. Like what what positions are we funding? Like there's an assistant city manager position that was funded, I assume, in
last year's budget between 120 180,000. >> I don't believe we need to fund that position. >> I think we need to look at it different and and as the city manager said, >> change it to something different. >> Okay. The assistant city manager position is not a funded position in
this budget. Sir, >> it was the strategic initiatives. strategic initiatives administrator was because the funding is based upon the people that are in the positions in approximately May of each year. So the previous person in that position was
here until very recently. So the strategic initiatives administrator is funded. The assistant city manager position although it's a position is not funded. >> Okay. Then I don't I do not want to fund the strategic initiatives administrator whatever position.
The last guy didn't work out. So, well, >> I'm just saying. >> And what would you like with that funding, sir? >> What's that? >> What would you like to do with that funding? This will require a budget amendment. We can put it in budget amendment number one, take the funding out and put it somewhere else or put it
in uh contingency if you wish, wherever you would like, whatever you would like to do with it. >> Did we add anybody any police officers to the park? I know we had a a a part-time park ranger. >> A part-time park ranger. Uh two school
resource officers and four police officers, sir. >> Okay. >> That's what's in the budget. >> But not a police officer at the park yet. We're not there yet. >> I was not aware of any such a request, sir. >> Okay. >> All right. I mean, what do you guys
think about the administrator positions and assistant manager? I just Chris, >> I I don't understand. >> I with the exception to council, I'd like you to ask the questions you need be and I'll take notes and make comment on them because >> yeah, >> um these are some things we have to
really look at. So, I I just >> Yeah, that's where I just want to talk about it before. >> I don't know what the other council members say, but okay. >> These are things that that's why we're here and and I think Yeah. Um those are valid valid questions. So >> this is a three-year history of
positions. This is required of the GFO a budget presentation award. So this will be in has always been in our our final budget book which is not due until the middle of December. 90 we have 90 days
from this hearing date to complete the book because we don't it's not the end of the fiscal year yet. So, we don't have all the data in order to be able to do do it. >> All right. Um, city manager, can you explain the strategic initiatives position, what what that entails because
I don't what I saw a lot of it was a salesman and that it didn't work. I mean, at least to us and that wasn't it just wasn't I didn't I really didn't see the value and and what was going on with that department or with that position.
So, our strategic plan um we have we this past year we adopted a five-year strategic plan and um as part of that we have annual business plans. So, that person helps us tracking our key
performance indicators, tracking the um initiatives that are that we're supposed to accomplish in order to achieve the goals identified in our strategic plan. Um we that person helps with the legislative items um any necessary
paperwork that we have to do um for the legislative requests. Um that person also helps with um we have a website with our strategic plan on it. Um it's helped us with um
improving efficiencies by taking some of the new softwares available in Office 365 and helped us citywide with multiple departments um coming off paper trying to find new methods to do things now that we had this new Office 365 um
functionality. Um trying to remember off the top of my head. >> It is also required for the GFOA distinguished budget presentation award that we have a strategic plan that ties to the budget. So all items tie up to
strategic plan items. That's why I listed them out. >> Each one I've never seen this. >> And also the popular annual financial report. And if we get all three of those, we will be a GFOA Triple Crown Award winner and one of only like 250 in
the entire United States and Canada. >> And and every time we get requests from League of Cities, um things like that for surveys, uh because we kind of consider those part of the key performance indicators usually, um metrics, that that's one of those key
tasks, um that that person also takes on. um helped us redo our capital improvement budgeting process this past year. We have a brand new process right now um that we implemented was about to um was
working on our five-year capital improvement plan that we're moving forward with because the strategic plan the is supposed to line with your capital improvement plan. Um, >> yeah, I I think we need to go through all of those things as as a council and
and really dissect and see if that those duties can't be split and because those are all different types of of job responsibilities that I I think there's a lot of he had a lot more time on his hand he should have had. Um, there is one thing here I I see the public safety administrator is just over the fire
department but so is not over the police department. Is that correct? I think that's just a mistake. >> Yeah, that's >> I think that's just a mistake. >> Okay. >> Yeah, he's definitely over the police department. >> Well, I I would hope so. I mean, I don't
know what he did other than, you know, raise >> It's not necessarily It's not necessarily mistake. Yes, the police chief is over the police department just as much as I'm over the human resources department. However, the police chief reports to the city manager, but the fire chief reports to the police chief under this structure. So, that's the
difference. Um, that's why it's set up this way. It's just showing reporting relationships in that in that sense. >> So, where are you, Justin? You at human resources? >> Yes, I'm in human resources. >> Okay. And you report to whom? >> The city manager. >> Okay. So, there's a direct line. That's
what I guess. Mayor, >> we all have a direct line to the city manager except for the fire chief who reports to the police chief. >> In the last this past year, you were also over IT and procurement as well. So you were no no longer over top of
them in the organizational structure. They don't report to you at all. >> Correct. >> Okay, that's good. You were very knowledgeable on those things. I know we we spoke on the phone regarding the uh the um
what was the the cyber stuff. Yeah. >> Yeah. So the strategic plan is actually the foundation for your entire budget. So, I can't speak to, you know, what the previous person did and didn't do, but the importance of
someone in that role is why we have the budget that we do. >> Okay. Council member Paul. >> So, when did that um position um get established, the last position that Abby had? because I'm just wondering when who was
doing all of those tasks before that um role became you know >> oh >> that's your question >> right um I feel like three or four years he was in that in that role I think I feel like
three or four years his title changed but he was in that role for three or four years >> okay because if we did away with it I mean my input would be I would like to see the funding to public safety cuz I mean they can always use it. So >> yeah, I I agree. I think um
>> I I think there's too much money being spent into this and I believe in all the goals on the wall in that on that chart, but what is somebody just going to sit there and stare at it and make sure we're still following it? I think every I hope every employee in this building knows how to read that and understand it
and and and follows it. I think it's it I think they did a great job with it, but I don't think we need to be paying somebody$120 to $180,000 just to ensure that you know I think our HR U manager or director he knows keeps everybody in
line with that with that chart. >> Hey Jeff, when you said GFOA received an award, was it a participation trophy or what what what was it award? Uh no. The government finance officers association has three financial awards. One is for your annual
comprehensive financial report of which the city has received that award for all but perhaps two or three of the last 35 plus years. Uh there's also the distinguished budget presentation award. The city had received it a few times up
until the year 2000 and then did not get it again until about three years ago. And now we continue to get that award. And then they have a third award that's called the pub popular annual financial report. This year we have uh submitted
our first submission for that award. And if we do obtain that one, we will be a GFOA triple crown winner, which is, as I mentioned, very rare. >> Thank you for the explanation. >> All right. Hey, Scott, do you have a second?
>> Um, you've been monitoring the the park or the um boat trailer activities, I guess. So, the fees that come through, you understand the act what we're getting out of it. Um, are we still working on other other um spots to to
charge in the future for public safety purposes down there? >> That the um that will be coming back before you during the November workshop as as council had directed on additional paid parking options. >> Okay. >> That was the city manager has had sent that calendar out. I believe it was last
week that listed the upcoming workshop items and that was the time frame that you had requested uh for that to come back before council because that gave enough time for the system in place for everybody to test that out, make sure that we get all the kinks out, make sure that we can get enforcement straight on
the PD side, make sure that the passes and everything were working correctly, the way that we had anticipated it to be working and so far it's been working exactly as we had hoped it would. >> Okay. Yeah. Because that's one of the things that, you know, when I I got actually before I got on, I called the the fire chief and the police chief and
I said, you know, I really like to see some officers down there at the lakefront and and I would like to try and include one in this budget, a bicycle officer. Um, can the police chief come up here? I just want to ask you a couple questions on that and see if it's even doable.
>> Yes, sir. Um, we've spoken about this about possibly a bicycle officer that could, you know, if there was a call maybe four blocks up in the grid from the lakefront, you know, they could just patrol the lakefront, there was a call, they could respond on bike, could get there faster than than a SWAT car. Um,
is that anything if we were to put a position in the budget for that? Is that something that would be beneficial down there? >> Uh, we we currently use our uh community engagement officers under Sergeant Stockdale. um they've been actually taking a more active role um patrolling
that area and even some of the CRA officers um as we're bringing them back onto our budget, they're still in the CRA also, but it gives them a little bit of a boundary that they can actually move down to the lakefront. So, um we're doing our best to actually get down there a lot more. Um I know we have a lot of issues even with the electric, the ebikes, um and things like that. So,
we're starting to uh pay a lot more attention down there. Uh but any amount of officers would actually help us, sir. you know that I would >> what what would the cost and you guys have bikes already. I assume there's extra bicycles. >> Um >> what what would that cost for uh an
officer to be on a bike down there? >> Uh I assume they'd have a car too, right? >> You wouldn't leave an officer without a car. >> No, they would get the entire package. So again, off the top of my head, I'd have to get you the exact numbers per se, but um when we did it for the school board, we were trying to assess what a new officer would be with all the
equipment and everything. So, I think we're somewhere in the area um with the equipment itself and the pay and benefits. Coupe I'm going to ask, but I think we're somewhere around 210,000 or so. >> Um but that's the equipment though. The equipment is costly to try to to get the cars and everything else that comes with
it. >> Is that about right? Sorry. >> Couple. >> Um currently it's $106,000 for salary and benefits. And as far as uh the equipment, the vehicle uh as a new position, you could get that out police
impact fees. Uh and if you want to give direction to like add an additional officer, we could do that without actually affecting the budget right now because as I mentioned before, uh we fund all of our departments at 100%
staffing and you know, police is of course unfortunately never 100% staffed. So, um, you could do it without actually adding any money to police at this time. >> Mayor, I I'd like to add that there will be initial cost, but once we have the
equipment that's there, >> that's the big that's the bulk. >> It's already done. >> Well, that's half the >> right that's half the init I don't know if half, but that's a >> that initial cost deteriorates. And just as you said, I I'm amazed of everything
that goes down at our beautiful lakefront in the safest city in in the state of Florida. It's it's gorgeous. I mean, it's >> So, we have actually also added a part-time park ranger also to help Demetrius down there as well. So, there'll be a second person operating
down there. The only problem is if we try to do one officer, and I'm not asking for a second, but we we they only they work 12-hour shifts, so we need somebody on the days that he's off also to actually have them down there assigned all the time. So again, we we use our community engagement unit um extensively now um to get around to
those areas to make sure that they're on the lakefront and everything. So >> yeah, um I just showing some more presence down there. You know, obviously we've been getting emails and and uh I I just think it's important as as our our community continues to grow, there's more people using the lakefront for a
thoroughfare and and um and more people are down there walking like the ebikes and all that. So >> Yes, sir. And we have special operations. We have special operations happening down there right now. So in the mornings they're doing extra traffic patrol. So our patrol officers are going down there right now and they're running radar and laser. So we're certainly down
there. >> Yes, sir. Jeff, >> if I may, um perhaps a recommendation would be um we held back um prior or held down prior year fund balance intentionally uh on the chance that we do not get the
safer grant. However, if we do, my recommendation would be, you know, we can add another number, two, three, four officers, whatever you like, because, you know, we'll have a more financial flexibility at that time. If we were to
get it, we're trying to be very conservative right now because if we don't get it, it's a stretch. >> Okay. But but we can find it for one. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Can can I ask one question? Uh, Mr. Stockdale's in the back and you're
the community officer. Could you step up please? It's a it's a big position and I'm I'm so proud of you having that position. So, >> what what are your plans for the Lakeshore uh as that I I guess that's going to be
part of his purview. Is that right, Chief? >> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> Okay. Can I ask that question? Would it be a proper I'm sorry. It's the only time I get to talk to the lead of Jeep Kirk. >> Best leader ever. I'm telling you that dude's a stud. I don't know if you ever met him. He's he's cool. That guy is
>> he's a he's a he's a keeper. Yeah, he's he's the best. >> Down at Lakefront, we face a lot a lot of obstacles from out of town boers, out of town any kind of recreation, the kite people. Um I think a lot of those initiatives down there are going to be proactive policing measures. Uh having
somebody out there on a bike even at night would be awesome. If we could work that in and get more officers, like chief said, on a rotation, that'd be great. But yeah, whatever we can do as far as parking, graffiti, uh unhomed individuals, all the above, you name it,
we'll handle it. >> Well, if we get you that officer, you figure out how to use them. >> I certainly will. >> We we we don't want to be a Portland or Seattle. Uh and I think this is a proactive way to be that. and and and chief and I met in January for the new
new laws of there's no tenting on public areas. >> Yes. >> Car windows. >> No, it means public. He means public. >> I know what he meant. >> You know, I know I'm trying to get somewhere with it. It just
a different direction. But but we talked about that in January because of the new laws, the state laws. That's an awesome place and and it's it's one of the city's icon. I mean, you can go there at 6:00 in the morning, at 6:00 at night,
there's 100 people on that place and they feel safe. And that's because of you two and that guy over there that's got the big arms. But but but that those are those are good things. So I I think what the mayor is trying to look at where we do to continue that safety as we continue to grow. And maybe I'm
assuming things, but that's what I thought. mayor and I'm so glad you're there, Mr. Stockdale. I think you're going to do a great job. I I just budgetary items. Safety is it and safest city in Florida. >> Yeah, it's a challenge, sir, to make sure that and the community engagement
team under Sergeant Stockdale, they're very busy. So, not only doing community outreach, they're also doing proactive policing. Uh when they're not doing something, I go find bad guys and put them in jail. Make sure that they know not to come to St. Cloud. Um we work partnerships with the community. We're very close with them. Um, but I also have them taking the boats out for
marine patrol. They'll get down on the bikes and ride on the but it's um it's a challenge because they're constantly getting pulled in a million different directions. And obviously our patrol officers are out there going to calls for service and and doing traffic elsewhere um across the city as well. So, but it's just it's another task that
uh I'm going to have to ask SGE to uh to take on for me. >> Yeah, my heartfelt you guys are awesome. So, thanks. >> Thank you, sir. >> I mean, community engagements, they're being officers but having fun at the same time, right? Water gun fights and that's all you do, right? Uh, Council Member Urban. >> Uh, yeah, I'm I'm all for for funding
public safety and and and making sure that we um have that well funded and as many positions as we possibly can. Just on the topic of uh the strategic administrator, I I would just like to get some more information about um my
concern is I don't don't want to put more work on our existing staff that uh would slow our progress down here at the city. And so this budget that we're passing, the number is not going to change if we just put the whatever was
budgeted for that position into contingency until we can get some more information on that and then decide what to do with it at a later time. That's what I would prefer to do. But that's >> yeah, I just think maybe shift it around to something till we understand what it is. It can stay where it's at, but it it could split up into two jobs, but not
pay 120, 180. It could be 80 and 70 or, you know, >> right? Uh, one thing I wanted to add, you know, the reason I've been looking at that is, you know, we're about to pass the future land use map. We're adding commercial down at the lakefront. Our city is
growing. We're annexing more and more. We're building more and more. Um, not necessarily because we all want to, but um, it's growing down there. We're getting more complaints, people from out of town, uh, you know, not always following the law. So, we need we just
need the public safety out there. So, and I'll tell you, community game engagement is the best because they're out there, they're interacting with the community, but they're law enforcement. And so, if an incident happens, that's it's the best thing. It's they're out there to take care of business. >> Yeah. And if I can just add, Sergeant Stockdale running that unit, it's going
to be fantastic. Again, when there's nothing >> guy, too, he knows everybody. >> Yeah. But when there's nothing happening, I assure you, they're going to go out and find bad people. They'll do traffic enforcement. They will ride the bikes on the lakefront. They will take their bikes out and ride neighborhoods. um they've been doing quite a bit and they're assisting with our criminal investigation division. So,
um Sergeant Stockdale's done a great job so far of reaching out to all the units in the city, the police department, just saying, "What do you need from us and we'll be happy to help you?" So, they're doing a fantastic job for us. Okay. >> It's a great unit that we started. >> And the fact that we're the the officers that were the CRA officers, it's no
longer coming out of the CRA fund. It's coming out of the general fund. They can go wherever. >> That's correct. But we still we still have Officer McDonald and Corporal Fujer who's going to be retiring. They're still in the CRA. We certainly don't want to marginalize the CRA. So, yes, they're under ours, but we can move them
um to if we needed to to bring help patrol the lakefront if we needed to have them come down here to assist. Um there were very strict rules uh with the CRA docu document that we had um that would actually prohibit them from leaving the CRA. So, uh, the fact that it's coming back into our, uh, budget,
again, we're not looking to strip them out of there. Um, but we can use them if need be. We, they can help us. >> Okay. City manager, if we could do one officer at the lakefront on a bike, if we can figure that out, is that >> consensus? I I need consensus.
>> Yep. You got thumbs up all the way across. So coup budgetwise so that we cuz I know to not have to have another meeting you have to do it a certain way. So is that would that be a budget? >> Right now we're it it will not be it
will not affect the budget. you're you're basically adding an officer to the staffing table and then at the end of next fiscal year if by some stretch like police comes up a little short we that's why we do a final budget amendment of the year to make those
adjustments. But um we don't need to do a budget amendment. We don't need to change this particular um annual budget. We'll just work work it in there. >> All right, Chief, I have one more question. I'm sorry. the part-time park ranger. What are his
duties or his her duties, whoever you hire in that position? >> So, >> I know they're helping Demetrius, but I mean, he travels to 17 parks a day. >> And I think that's exactly what they're going to be doing is um at the time we started to see if we can get an additional person to go help patrol the parks. U they'll be similar to like a
code officer. They can issue parking citations. They can um do those type of things. But even Demetrius, you know, he has he needs days off also. So, usually we're going to do our best to make sure that somebody is working at all times. Um, so when Demetrius is off, the other the part-time ranger will be working as well. Um, and they'll have uh days that
they'll overlap each other. So, especially on the weekends, maybe busy times, they'll be in the same areas, one at Chism, one at Lakefront, or they'll be moving around to Runny. They'll be moving around to different areas, especially as we start to take over more parks, it's very, very important that we actually have some good uh visibility of our park rangers.
>> Yeah. What do we have triangles on? Um, >> that's coming. What? And there's other ones in the in the line. >> The Hickory Tree Park in the county, that's going to be a big one. They they want us to to move quickly on that. >> And that's, you know, my concern is especially at the ranch where we've opened it up for the public just to go
out there. That's a big piece of property that we don't have anybody. >> So, we have an officer that actually stays there. We have an officer that's there, but obviously when they're working, they're not there. >> Well, right. I mean, I assume they work. >> So, if we can look at a mounted unit in the future, maybe horses, that'd be great. But I
>> I'm sorry. It's a heavy cost mounted unit. >> We've had that. >> Yes, I know. >> Yeah. Casey and >> but to actually patrol that that would be great. But I I there they come at an intense cost. >> So, >> okay. >> All right. Thank you, sir. >> Yes, sir.
Any other com comments from council for Mr. Cooper? All right. And do we have a motion? Motion to approve resolution 2025098R. >> Motion to approve. Council member Urban. >> Second. >> Second from Council Member Paul.
>> Madame Clerk, please call the RO. >> Council member Urban. >> Hi. >> Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> Hi. >> Council member Fletcher. >> Hi. >> Council member Paul. >> I. >> Mayor Robertson. >> I. >> Motion carries 5. >> Thank you, Jeff. >> Thank you, sir. All right. And next up, we have council
action. Will the clerk please read item number one? >> Discussing possible action regarding the appeal for the parking determination of Neptune Road Apartments project PRK2-0000001. The subject property is located approximately north of 13th Street, east of Okunuki Road, and south of Neptune
Road and west of Sergeant Graham Road. Good evening. Melissa Duncan, director of community development. This case before you tonight is for a parking determination for the project known as Neptune Road Apartments, generally located at the corner of Sergeant Graham
Drive and Neptune Road. The subject property is approximately 19.34 acres. The future land use designation is commercial with a highway business zoning designation. This uh use uh for multif family apartments was
approved as part of a conditional use permit in September of 2022. The the applicant is proposing to construct a gated community of 336 multif family dwelling units which equates to a density of approximately
17.34 dwelling units. Sorry, 17.37 dwelling units per acre. Um, our land development code currently requires 2.1 parking spaces per unit, which is um two
per every unit and then one additional parking space for every 10 units. Um, the total parking required per our land development code for this development is 706 spaces. Our
land development code gives uh staff the ability to administratively approve up to 20% of a parking reduction. And this request has to be supported by a uh
traffic engineer um sorry by a parking study completed by a traffic engineer. What the applicant is requesting is to reduce the number from 706 parking parking spaces to 606 parking spaces
which equates to 1416% of a reduction. Um, our concern is that if we eliminate that 100 parking spaces in this suburban mid-rise multif family apartment
development, that that could result in a corresponding shortfall in available parking spaces, potentially leaving up to 100 vehicles without designated on-site parking accommodations. So, um, the applicant is requesting to
reduce the number of parking spaces from 2.1 per unit to 1.8 per unit. Here's a conceptual rendering of the proposed layout of the development, which includes the 336 apartment units.
Um, I would like to point out that they are half one-bedroom apartments and half two-bedroom apartments. Um they are also proposing 7.22 acres of open space and they are
proposing a 2.95 acre commercial parcel at that um corner of Sergeant Graham and Neptune. Oh, and I also wanted to point out that um the IT manual um and I think that
stands for um Institute of Transportation Engineers, but um correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. So, the IT manual did does recommend for this type of development 1.3 parking spaces per unit, but it was
because of the 100 total spaces that staff was concerned and we we wanted to bring this forward to you uh for approval. So staff on June 20th, 2025 did recommend denial and we are also
requesting that city council deny the parking determination for Neptune Road Apartments. Uh we do have the applicant Joe Thacker here who I believe has prepared to speak on this item and staff is available for questions as well. >> All right. Thank you. And would the
applicant like to speak? Good evening. Joe Thacker, 17 South Orlando Avenue, CMI. Uh, thank you all for adding me to your long day today. I appreciate it. Um, this is an appeal from the parking variance requested. Um,
as Miss Duncan pointed out, staff does have the ability to do a 20% uh reduction pursuant to your code. We're asking for a 14% uh reduction which equals 1.8 spaces per unit. And as Miss
Duncan just pointed out, the IT manual is at 1.3. So we're far exceeding what most people consider to be adequate parking. Um your code is just very intense on multifamily parking. So
again, re I'll remind you all this this is an apartment complex that's already been approved. It was actually approved for the whole area and what they did. Um so it's approved for more units than what they're proposing. And so they
backed off the unit number and added the commercial piece. Um and so that's how it came about. It does have more open space than required. It's got 7.2 acres. It's only required
to have 4.8. So, if the parking variance doesn't get approved, they will need to uh take up a lot of that extra uh grass area, passive, and uh active recreation area
and reduce it down. And they also would have to take parking from the commercial property which would reduce what would be allowed to be developed on that commercial property. At 3 acres it can
handle a nice size commercial development. After you take it down uh with the parking it would be less probably closer to one and a half acres. So I would remind you all as well um
that the city has done a lot of well not a lot they have granted like kind or greater uh reductions in parking for apartment complexes and there are not any code enforcement
problems or uh violations that have come to the attention of staff uh because of those variances that have been granted in the past. So there's really no uh anticipation that this would be an
impact on code enforcement or your police officers as well. The other thing this is gated. Um so the parking the management company can control how many parking spaces you have and how you are
parking. Um it doesn't impact any public roads. They're all private. So there's not an overflow into the parking area uh to the public realm. The other thing I wanted to point out is this is your most urban uh apartment complex. Uh they can
walk to jobs. They can and you're you're by Publix, you're by Walmart, you're by um restaurants. Uh you're you can maybe uh get a a job downtown because you can ride your bike. um you you're connected
by trails. Um you are you have two schools close by to you. Uh so there's there's a lot of uh benefit to being with in this location where you don't have to have a vehicle to survive. You can actually get on a bus too right at
192. They're right next to 192 behind the gas station. So, I think if there's ever a um a project that actually deserves to have a parking reduction, it would be this one. The other thing I
know there's concern um about the proliferation of uh car washes, tire stores, and um self storage. Thank you. Um, my client is willing. So, right now, um,
self- storage and car washes are permitted and they could go put them up right now because they're highway business. So, they could build it. Um, they don't have to build their apartments. They could just put in self storage and car washes. >> Quit trying to scare us.
>> No, I'm trying. So uh they they have agreed to put a condition that where it none of that can be built without a conditional use. So it would be totally in your discretion of whether to grant
those uses in that commercial. They are willing to say it's it's up to you all. We we don't we're not planning on putting it there. If you don't want it there, you don't have to grant it. So, um they it for someone to restrict their
property like that is pretty um impressive and they are willing to do this because they are ready to move forward with their project. They'd like to get this determination done so they can move forward. The construction plans are already filed. Um so that is what I
have to offer to you all tonight and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. >> Yes ma'am. Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Would anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? >> Uh, Mr. Brown Scott, can you please give one second? He'll bring the microphone
to you, sir. >> Two things. Obviously, in the whatever 103 degree heat, these people are going to enjoy the bicycling. They they won't want a a second car to help with uh getting to work if according to your
plan. Um and the other minor thing if there a lot is is there a delineation of how many studio apartments there are? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Half of the units are onebedroom and the
other half are twobedroom. And the other thing I forgot to mention is that they have agreed to put extra bike racks and cover all bike racks as well. >> Yes, ma'am. >> One bedroom still demand, you know, two
people in general these days. >> Yep. >> And so they'd want two cars. They aren't bicycling in in Florida weather. I'll tell you right now. >> Thank you, sir. Anyone else in the
audience like to speak on the item? >> And Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> Well, through the metrop plan, we've looked at uh alternative transportations, and this is a location where there is a bus stop. Uh there there's a police station right down there. I know they need more folks, so
they can apply for a job there and walk there. Uh and in the community itself is contained. Uh so it's a gated community. And I I'd have to ask the police chief, you know, where do they park if they can't go there? Do they go to Walmart or
do they go and have to walk? That's just I don't think that's an issue for the citizens of St. Cloud. This is a contained area with a gated community. It it will be up to the management company, the owners for rent, for people
to live there or not. If there's a parking issue, they might not rent there. and and you know, I I had a one-bedroom apartment, but I could only afford a half a car at that time. So, so so th those things were, you know, were were that I had a motorcycle, so it just kind
of fit. But but we don't want to discourage it, but the location seems good for for public transportation with the buses to be there, with with the transit to be there, with the biking and things such as that. Uh I I I like uh uh
storage units. I have a friend that owns some, but but I certainly rather it be housing for for for individuals, and that's going to be close to our medical uh uh city uh our MAC that's going to develop in there, I hope, in in in the future, too. So, that's it. I do think
one and two-bedroom apartments are affordable. uh the the cut down for a 100 parking spots. I would like to say that's a city issue, but it's really not because it's a private entity and if the people don't want to rent because there's no parking or anything
like that. I I don't want to push it off, but that's a gated community. Where where else would they park? What neighborhood would it affect? What what public >> Joe, would you like to answer? >> Are you asking them direct? Matt I mean
where where would it negative negatively affect other >> it shouldn't negatively affect >> I looked at it I did the I used to call bird's eye view now it's a drone's eye view I did that of this facility and I looked at other areas that can affect it's self-contained almost is it not
>> yeah uh can we bring the plan back up Melissa go back one slide or two slides I think it's two slides Yeah. Thank you, Council Member Urban. >> Um, >> were you done? I'm sorry. >> I'm done, sir. Thank you for for allowing me to do that. Uh, council, I
>> I've never subscribed to the idea. I know in a perfect planning world on in a planning textbook, people walk everywhere and it's a beautiful utopia. I don't see people walking across 192 to Home Depot or to Walmart. With that
being said, you're right, Deputy. Mayor Gilbert, it's going to be contained into this area and it's gated. And I do appreciate that they've committed to not doing a storage unit or tire shop or uh what else was it? A car wash on the commercial area. I would like
>> dental >> or dental. I I would like that I think I brought this up before. I would like all storage units and car washes and tire stores to be conditional uses everywhere in the city. But that's a a hill to die on for another day. So that's all I can say.
>> Uh Council Member Paul. >> All right. So, um, Miss Faker, this development was approved when? >> 22. >> Oh, okay. And then, um, with the decrease in the parking spots, um, we talked I know I met with you and you indicated that there would be amenities.
Can you please, um, describe what amenities would be there for this complex? There's a clubhouse. There's a large pool area. There's a dog area. There's um
a trail around the big that big pond area that has benches and other type of uh recreational activities. There's a a large open space um that's supposed to be for the people to be able just to
enjoy a little more green space than what you normally get in a multif family project. >> Okay. Thank you. >> No, Joe. >> I didn't get to talk yet. >> I'm sorry. >> Um you and I met on this and you know I was I was at first against you know the
reduction. Uh but this is a gated community. Correct. >> Yes. And I do appreciate the fact they're not they, you know, we'll make that a conditional use as council member Murvin said. Uh I did see is that a little pedestrian thing you put in there
that we talked about in the top right corner. >> So um they are going back by Jimmy Johns. >> Yeah, they're going to try to seek that. They don't we don't I don't know if they can get permitted or not. >> Okay. But they >> they can because that would truly make
it a walkable. You know, at least they can go get their groceries. They can go to Jimmy John's. They can go to whatever the heck is in that >> Nature's there's banks, Nature's Table. >> Bank. >> That's >> um I like it. Um Yeah. So that that parcel, the three acres, is that going to be parcled off
of the rest of this? >> Yes. >> And keep its highway business? >> Yes. >> Okay. I look forward to the the great restaurants on that >> city attorney. >> So it seems like the consensus is to I'm
just reading to sort of approve the to approve the request by the applicant with the conditions that Mrs. Stacker requested. >> Yes. Uh well that's as I understand it. I do see I'm sorry, Joe. The little um
what I had just pointed out. I think that's where Jimmy John's is, right? >> No, I think we had talked about >> That's what I said. >> Same kind of restaurant, right? Jersey Mike's. Yes. Sorry. You're right. >> Um it says garbage compactor, but I
guess you all you'd really need is a sidewalk to connect to that, >> right? >> Do we know who owns the ditch? >> That's the problem. >> Okay. is the ditch and >> there's other issues with the ditch still, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Other Okay. We still got to iron out. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. >> So, and mayor, so with the along those lines though, this is an appeal of a parking determination, >> right? >> So, the only way to incorporate those conditions would be into a separate agreement, which we've discussed with the applicant about doing. So, if you're
going to consider this, excuse me, you also need a we'll need to have a development agreement that refers to the the the two conditions that Mrs. Stacker presented. Uh so, if that's inclined to where we do, we can certainly go through that right now to address it. So, um I
guess that's why I was asking if there's a consensus for the city council to approve the reduction subject to those two conditions we talked about. >> Yeah. The pedestrian thing, that's if they can do it. I'm not I'm not going to make a condition on that. That's if it's even possible. Uh but but the rest of it Yeah.
>> Okay. >> No storage unit. >> So So the two conditions that that have been discussed would be uh there would there would be no there would be no storage facilities, no tire stores and no car washes on it as a matter as a permitted as a matter
of right. However, they would be allowed with a conditional use permit issued by this council or a future council. Um are we still sticking with the 10-year piece? They they are asking that that condition be only for a period of 10 years. So after 10 years, assuming there
is no conditional use permit issue and no other use, then the owner of the property would have uh those conditions restrictions would no longer be applied and they could build whatever they want in the appropriate zoning. >> My my thinking on that is three-fold.
one, the opportunity, as council member Urban said, to change your code to make those things conditional uses. If y'all haven't done it within 10 years, you're probably not going to do it. >> Um, >> none of us will be here in this.
>> And so, and and the other thing is it should be developed within 10 years, therefore probably not redeveloped into any of those within that period of time. and a restriction longer than 10 years on property is a little harsh. And so
those were my three reasons why the 10 years was picked. >> They're selling the parcel anyway. >> I hope they saw it within 10 years or I'd get different real estate. >> That's what I mean. Exactly. And develop not just I mean
>> 10 years from development order >> 10 years from now whenever that we give it grant that's fine. >> And then the other condition was as Mrs. Sacramento mentioned was the additional bike racks and the uh covers for the for the bike racks. >> Last question. So, do they plan on
developing this themselves and owning it? Owner operator of it? >> Yes. >> Okay. The folks that I met with the developers. Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Good. Good evening. If I may, the um fire chief had um a request, so um I'll
let him >> rain on our parade. >> Nope. Short, simple, and sweet. My only request is if you do um grant this parking reduction request that you provide some sort of language that they can't provide do parallel parking on the endcaps of those apartments and narrow
down those driveways. Um trying to get engines through there or tower truck would be an absolute nightmare if we have people that are quas parallel double parked on those endcaps. >> And do we have it on here as per I don't see it. It's not it's not designated as
parking, but I can tell you from some past experiences we've had with other apartment complexes, when the parking spots filled, they will find wherever they would like to park. So, I'd like some kind of assurances that management will uh >> no parking signs, >> ensure that those areas are clear
because it would be a bad day if we can't get some fire trucks in there. So on the end caps of the apartments where there's currently only parking on the opposite side, I'd like that at least labeled with no parking or towway zone or something like that for management to
be able to do that. Um, you know, the areas where there's parking on both sides of the roads, that's not the that's I'm not concerned about that, but it's where it's the single parking sides. So on the south side of that commercial parcel, you see the end cap of that building, there's only parking on the up against the
commercial side. I can foresee people parallel parking along that endcap. So I'd want to make sure that there's no parking along that. >> So basically you're looking at something that would require the owner to monitor and make sure that people only park in designated parking spaces. >> Yes, sir.
>> That work? >> That's fine. And it also could be um marked on the construction plans and maybe they put some bushes there so they can't park there. So, there's ways to to make sure that happens. >> I do like how you laid it out there that
uh if we required more parking, they'd eat up the park space, the additional park space that's there. So, I think uh I would rather have the park space than more parking spots. Grass is better than asphalt. >> All right. Any other council comments?
>> Can I get a motion? >> Motion to approve with the conditions. Do I need to read them out? So the conditions would be obviously the motion to approve would be to approve a parking reduction from 706 spaces to 606 spaces and then that the uses of car wash, tire
store or storage facility uh would only be required on the property with a conditional use permit issued by the city council and that would restriction would remain in place for a period of 10 years from the effective date of the agreement. The owner agrees to place additional bicycle racks and and to
cover all the bicycle racks. And the last condition would be owner shall ensure that parking uh all parking is uh in the designated parking spaces. >> Can council member Urban repeat that into the record. >> Motion motion to what he said. >> Motion to approve with what the city
attorney just read. >> Motion to approve. Council member Urban. >> Second. >> Second from Council Member Paul. Madame Clerk, please call the role. >> Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> I. Council member Fletcher. >> Hi. >> Council member Paul. >> I. >> Council member Urban. >> Hi. >> Mayor Robertson. >> Hi. >> Motion carries 5 Z.
>> Thank you all very much. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> All right. Will the clerk please read item number two? It's just uh discussion. >> Discussion regarding legislative projects for consideration. >> Are we voting on this?
>> I need direction. So, um, in your packets, you received several potential projects that we could, um, ask for legislative appropriations next year. Um, and I need to get direction because I believe it's October 27th is when the
delegation will be meeting where we have to present um, which projects that we're interested in. So I in your packet um for consideration um I would recommend uh based on the
enthusiasm that we saw from Representative Stark and Senator Arrington um and our lobbyist also thinks it's a good project that we try again for Hopkins Park Stormwater. Um however, it was a veto from the governor, so there's a chance he would
veto it again. So, if the council doesn't want to take that chance, um some other projects, um um Mr. Cardy said that, uh replacing the outdated lightning detection systems in the parks and facilities. He thought that was a
good project also. Um then we put a few road projects on here. We put Creekwoods Drive, which staff has been working on. Um but if we could receive some state monies, that would be good. Um, we have uh the extension of Law Avenue which you
saw was in the budget. It does help when we're able to show that we're putting money towards the projects. Also, South Florida Water Manage >> I'm sorry, did you say Lasal the Yes. >> connect in there? Okay. >> Yes. Which will connect to Orange. Um, the C31 Canal, South Florida Water
Management District asked us to support them on that. If you remember um a few years ago when we had the hurricane and the flooding, they opened up the gates to that canal um and they were damaged because the the amount of water and as
fast as it was moving, it was built um as an agricultural canal um instead of an urban canal. So they they they said that they were going to be asking um for funding themselves and they wanted our support on that which I would recommend
if it's not costing us anything assuming they put in for it that we would just have Mr. Cardy also support going for it. >> Um and yes a letter. >> Um >> not financial support. >> Correct. Yeah. I I I when I I did not offer the I did I was not supportive of
that when they brought it up. Um, another project, um, I think it has a low chance is the, um, the ERP implementation that, you know, we've been working towards. Um, and then we have on the list, uh, the new EOC and
communication center equipment, but that's a better federal project than it is as a as a state project. Um also well so so those would I I have a few non-monetary ones I'd like to discuss but um first if I could get consensus
you know um on on these we have um Mr. Cardy and um if at the next council meeting I believe we're going to be bringing forward the Olay agreement if the council wants to um ex um pursue that again there's a potential you know another group of lobbyists to help us
but Mr. Cardy has also been very successful um helping us with projects recently. So um looking for >> Blair is doing the federal side on that. Okay. >> Yes. >> When you you said the second one was lights at parks >> lightning detection system.
>> Oh where did I get lights at parks? That was just in my head when Garrett brought that up about riding at the at lakefront. It it do we need better lighting out there at night or do we want to keep it dark? The park is supposed to be closed at sunset.
>> I think the parking lots need better lighting. I've I've walked there in and walked in the parking lot and uh I witnessed I think uh our chief saved somebody that tripped down the stairs. Uh and he I I called him because he's a he's a paramedic. He's a superman. He
changed into everything and he took care of the lady. You remember the incident? But but there there is some uh lighting issues in the parking area and we had talked about the parking area before of making it open parking after dawn so the
people that park their trailers could park but I haven't seen any signs of that. But the lighting I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. It might be a bulb change. It might be it but but that's when when we said that that came to mind. I'm sorry, you go back, mayor, but that's
>> Yeah, for some reason, I guess I heard that in my head. Um, lights at parks. Uh, council member Urban. >> Um, I I know it got vetoed last year, but I'd really like to try again for the Hopkins Park funding. I I I think that should be a priority for us, and I'd
like to try it again. >> Okay. Uh do has any has our lobbyists have they spoken with any of the governor staff to kind of see check the temperature on that again to see if what the flavor of the year is going to be? >> I I just sent him these projects and
asked him for input on them and I would say that the two that he replied back were good projects um were the Hopkins and the lighting. I asked him if road projects had a chance because we've been vetoed in the past or we haven't even made it in the budget before on on road
projects. He said that he thought um that we would actually have a good chance to get it in the budget because Representative Stark is the vice chair of uh I think the appropriations committee or one of those committees. Um
and so he he thought that we would we we doesn't know that we would survive the veto, but he thought it would have a a better chance than we've had in the past. >> Yeah. And you know, I've run to that with my own stuff with the nonprofit I run. To me, when you have a good
project, you got the right team, it's easy to get in the budget. The problem is what's the temperature of that one person? and and if we can get an indication of of what they're looking at this year. I don't I don't know if he even knows or his staff. >> He hasn't given me any.
>> But I do agree. We should go after it again. >> Do you think so, Mayor? Because I think we're almost at the finish line. Both Representative Arrington and Stark has said keep those put them back. >> Oh, yeah. No, I support it. >> You support that? I think so. Yeah. >> No, I'm just asking what the temperature of the governor's office is.
>> Well, and you don't know that. You know, >> if somebody calls him, >> you Yeah. way you made it need to take his temperature. There's two ways to take down three ways, but you have to take his temperature. But it got all the way it it got I'm sorry. It got all the way to
>> It got all the way to the governor. I So I think we're there, right? I I I don't know. >> That's >> That's half the battle, >> right? >> Half the battle is getting there, right? >> The other half is surviving the >> Yeah, it's a finish line. So, >> no, I support it. I was just wondering
if if we know if we have a better feeling because first time it's easy to accept the loss. The second time it becomes bitter, >> you know. >> Yeah. The the difference um this time I
think also is the way we write it. He said we're going to have to be different because potentially the project will be already starting before they actually give the funds. So he said we have to be careful how we write it so that that's clear and and um and I I asked if that
was going to hurt us and he said no we just have to be really clear that so that they know that we're we're moving forward with it. Um >> so that's the one we want number one. Is that what it sounds like? >> I think that's what that's what I'm getting from faces. >> What was last year's number one? The boat
>> or Oh no the the tiger damning thing or maybe this one was I don't remember. I I I I think Representative Stark prioritized the ones and I think she put Hopkins first. Um I I mean she she prioritized them. Um I I don't I don't
know that we actually said specifically. >> Oh, we didn't. Okay. No, we do. I think we want to push Hopkins. I think we want to tell our our representatives that >> that's our top >> because that's if we're going back in for it again. Council member Paul. >> Um I just have a question. If we try again with Hopkins Park and the governor
decides to veto it again, what would be um plan B as an alternate from there? Because I wouldn't try again after that, but what would be an alter, you know, alternate to move forward on that?
>> We'll still be moving forward if that's what your question is. Yes, it's already in our budget. It's it's it's we're just asking for funds to help us with it, but we are moving forward with it regardless of whether we get funding or not. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Do you think we'll we'll be digging the
pond before session >> before they get the agreement signed before next June? You know, maybe hopefully we we're still dealing with the with the lift station issues. Um but hopefully. >> Okay. >> Um so so that was clear last year. I mean, we did ask for multiple projects.
So, do do we want to ask for the it seemed like there was interest in the lightning or maybe it was just discussion. >> Well, the C-31 canal had that has nothing to do with >> that's no money from us. We just say we support it. >> Okay. Right. So, the three that we're looking at asking is Lasowl. Well, you had four on there.
>> Was the Lightning, Creekwoods, Lasal I don't re I really don't recommend the ERP >> they're not going to give us. I don't I don't see Creekwoods as something they're going to give us and I don't think Lasowl either. >> Okay. So the >> everybody's got those kind of issues around the state. That's not a Hopkins
because it's tied into many uses and many fixing a lot of problems there. Um the lightning where lightning protection where >> it's eight lightning detection systems at the ranch. There's two at the ranch, one at Chisums, one at Hopkins
Lakefront, Stephanie Lee Rothstein Park, the civic center, and the aquatic center. And the cost is $116,270. >> I mean, that's a matter of public safety. So, I think that's a that's a safe one.
>> I see two nods. I see three. Yay. Okay. So, Hopkins and light and the and the lighting will be our is what we'll we'll pursue. I have some non money monetary. Um, so, um, obviously they're they're still
looking to do some property tax reform, which I think the city council has seen how much we rely on property taxes. Um, so we would recommend that we be ready to um have Mr. Cardy oppose any legislature that would reduce our
property tax or sales tax funding. Um >> yes. >> Okay. Um anything that's supporting home rule? They they seem to every year start taking away um the rights of local government and and taking that up to the
state level. Um so I saw three nodding on that. Senate bill well before we go to Senate Bill 180 CRA. Um I did not remember to add it on here but um as I was driving here I realized oh I don't have the CRA on this list. Um they uh
today I um at the planning conference sat through a 2-hour legislative session um where they talked about what passed this past year and um what they're expecting this year and they're they're expecting um all of those bills that um >> well that was was that Corey Mills that
filed that one? >> No, not Cy who f not Corey Mills. That was um Oh gosh. The guy that's now the the uh lieutenant governor. I think you're right. >> He filed. Um >> Oh my gosh, where's my brain tonight?
It's only been six hours of hanging out with y'all. >> Well, they did expect that to >> I think I think that's um >> and we already know that we hope we get an extension. Um but we definitely don't want to be limited. So I I see two nods. >> Three nods. Thank you. And then
>> Well, what I was saying is it may not come back if you know if somebody else doesn't file it. Hopefully, >> they seem to think it was going to go back. >> Um, property tax. Oh, sorry. Um, and then Senate Bill 180, we we saw um how
how it has restricted our ability to do some of the things that the city council has asked for. You know, we've received direction that you want us to um make certain uses harder to get in the highway business. We were talking about several of them earlier tonight and we can't do that right now with Senate Bill
180. We can't make those changes. I think it was until 2027 and that's assuming that there's not another hurricane that we're in the path of um which would then cause that time frame to continue to expand. So, um I just have on here watch anything similar to
Senate Bill 180 um to make sure that um anything that happens that could res restrict our ability um over development and land use planning after the hurricanes um that that we we give Chris direction that we don't want to be
restricted further and if anything happens to make it easier, which I don't think that's going to happen based on what I was listening to today, um that that we just have him him ready to help us. But m Mr. Manseris and I were talking um and he's going to tell you
about um some lawsuits that were filed about Senate Bill 180. >> Mr. Manser. >> Thank you. Thank you. So, first thing I I would encourage the council to get to encourage a lobbyist to work on it. I think like a lot of bills that come through the legislature, this one needs
to be addressed and and probably tweaked a little bit to make sure it goes to whatever the true intent of the bill was because I think there's a lot of folks in this arena that do not think that the intent of the bill, which was which was couched within essentially an emergency
management bill to deal with properties that had been damaged by by storms and hurricanes and to prohibit local governments from being more restrictive and more burden some on the ability for those properties to basically survive the damage that they sustain which I
think most people agree is a fairly reasonable requirement but it's been expanded and as you've probably heard involved in the newspapers looks like Orange County is going to be involved in a fairly significant lawsuit that will ultimately get to this Senate Bill 180.
There also is a movement among uh some uh cities and counties that are getting together to actually challenge it. And uh as of last count, we've been we've received information uh from one law firm that's willing to has asked and I think many of you may have seen the same
email uh has asked for municipalities and counties to join a lawsuit that they are filing. They're actually my understanding is they're filing it actually today. uh but that um they were going to file a lawsuit to challenge Senate Bill 180 and this most particularly this provision that
prohibits a more restrictive or burdensome amendment to the city's comp plan or land development code. So we have the option of joining that to be able to address it. As the city manager pointed out, you did provide certain direction about certain things you you
you may have wanted to see happen that would fall into that category of being more restrictive and more burdensome and likely would be invalidated should you were to do it. Um uh as you as you've directed at this point um and uh so we
we this bill would actually would prohibit that. Um, we also have been working, as you know, you've been working on your future lenience map changes and the comp plan and we've been working with planning staff to make sure that those changes to those properties are um
we've actually made them almost less restrictive to to address the concern of Senate Bill 180. So, we think we've got it in a point where we could survive a challenge under Senate Bill 180. However, this is a new law that's out there that will not fully be vetted out
until some there is some litigation that's uh that's um and a court has made some determination about how it's going to be applied. So, we want to make sure you're aware of it. I think the lobbyists, it's a good task for the lobbyists to work um Gray Robinson and and Mr. Carmen, they work with several
municipalities and counties. So, I'm sure we're not going to be the only ones that are telling them you need to you need to watch this bill. We're going to sit on the sidelines and watch the lawsuit, right? We're not going to put our input into that. We don't want to >> Well, that's that that's I wanted to bring it to the
>> bear in Tallahassee. >> I am uh we've discussed it and we've actually we've we've discussed it. I I don't think I'm not at this point recommending that that the council agree to participate in that lawsuit. Uh I think uh I think the way the city does
its development and plans and be able to do that as you know we have most of the development that we're having that would be that would address some of these land development comp plan changes come through annexation and properties coming into the city and we I think staff has
done a really good job working with developers who want to be part of the city and work to be part of the city to to basically work on the agreements and entitlements and and through the use of annexation agreements ments and the triparty agreements with the county that we have related to stuff. So that really
it's more collaborative with the property owners. So even though there might be changes that you might see be you might see as seem as the general public might see as maybe being more restrictive or more burdensome they typically in the city scenario they typically work out through a negotiation
with the property owner. So the property owner is good with them uh to be able to address it. So, I don't really see it as a as an issue for most of the things that the city of St. Cloud does. It is an issue with regard to the future land use map and some of the overlay districts we may have been talking
about, but we're dealing with it on the future land use map to basically address to keep it uh to make it survive a 180 challenge if we got to that point. Um, and so I'm not at this point recommending you you the city participate in that lawsuit. However, we
did want to make sure you're aware of it uh so that we can have get some more direction at this point. >> Thank you, sir. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, we've already given consensus on item number two. We're good to go. >> And you you agreed on the 180, just not
the loss, which I wasn't recommending the lawsuit, but not a lawsuit. >> A as a city and as a person, as an individual, the answer would be no. no participation in lawsuits and and I appreciate the lawyers in the house and
stacker but we're gonna watch from afar to the we're going to watch a far we don't we don't need to be a part of the lawsuit >> but but we're good with any legislation about similar to 180 that that we participate in that just obviously
>> let somebody else pay for the legal bills that you know >> well I I meant the lobbying at the state not the not the legal Again, I I at the pleasure of the council, let's sit on the on the sidelines on this one. >> Yeah. And I I think what you're referencing is when we go to Tallahassee
that that's kind of the the direction we want to go like with our >> There are bills that they are planning coming out that's going to be similar to one to the chapter 180. So, I I do think we want to be involved. I think we want to be very involved. Not the lawsuit, but you know, any potential bills. I
think we need to be very involved with >> and we will. Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. Um, that was that was it. Thank you. >> It wasn't your time to speak. >> We're not at the agenda. I think that's what you did. You think it was that? >> No, I got stuff for that. >> You're like, that's it. I got stuff for
that, too. >> We're not there yet. >> All right. Next up, we got first readings and introduction. The next items on the agenda are ordinances before the council for first reading and introduction for the sole purpose of the council to authorize the publication of the ordinance for a final hearing. The council will not take final action on
the item tonight. Full presentations and public input on the ordinances will occur on the final hearing at which count the council will consider final action. >> I had to read all that. There are no f first readings and introductions at this time. >> City attorney.
>> So with the last council minute, we did talk uh you we did talk a little bit about the hotel and we told you we'd kind of bring back at least an initial game plan to sort of address it. So currently the applicant has submitted an as we told you last
time the permits related to the hotel have expired. Uh they are they have submitted an application to have their permits renewed. The building department has reviewed an initial application has requested certain information certain changes. They have the applicant as my understanding as of this afternoon had
not responded to those requests for information. So or request for additional information. So, uh, they are not moving forward with the with the, uh, with the permitting process as quickly as either >> the city staff would and we're sure the
council would and as this the members of the community would. Uh, this afternoon we met with the code enforcement division. uh and uh we are going to be initiating a code enforcement action against the hotel under the international property maintenance code and we're going to work that through to
the special master magistrate and we'll move that as quickly as we quickly can as possible. Um the other option that the city council has is the count there is an ability under the law to actually file a essentially don't take this the
wrong way Mr. But but a lawsuit where you you get into where you file a lawsuit in court and seek a sign of court injunction compelling them to to fix the property. We have that option. That of course would involve some additional expense for the city to be able to move forward
with that. Um we think that that uh filing the code enforcement action might might move the property along a little bit, but frankly it's been a long time. So it it may be necessary to proceed with that with that lawsuit also to try to get to get the the to to get the
owner of that property to move forward a little a lot quicker than they have been. Um, so if you if that's the path you want to do, what we would part of the reason for filing that lawsuit and we are going to have a discussion next week with the essentially the the fire
marshal and the fire department and code enforcement and some other folks involved to to further vet that issue out. But part of the reason is um we understand that there is a serious public health, safety and welfare issue with the hotel. Although there's nobody
in the hotel, my understanding is that I'm no I'm not a fire expert. My understanding is that in the event that there's a fire in that hotel, the fire department is not going to go inside the building to try to put the fire. So in my layman terms, that means they're just going to wait for the building to collapse and then put the fire out,
which to me seems like it's I think that's a fairly compelling argument that this that the building in the way it exists is a public health, safety, welfare issue. So we would move that approach. So with that, if the council wants to move in that direction, we would do the code enforcement piece also
because we have that premises property that process in place and then we would pursue the uh u basically an abatement action under the under chapter 60 of the Florida statutes which is where we would file a lawsuit against the owner of that property and ask a judge to um to in
issue an injunction to have them either fix the building. U basically they would have to fix it. They could ask him that the judge could try to compel him to demolish it, but we don't think we we'd we'd go in that direction. We'd probably just try to get them to get it to the judge to order them to fix it a lot
quicker than they have been. >> Can I ask for a brief summary? So, you got a the permit expired. >> Permit expired, right? They submitted an application uh to to get a new permit. They have not complet the the initial application had deficiencies. The
building department said, "You've got deficiencies." And my understanding as of this afternoon uh they have not responded to those requests for additional information. So the building permit application is basically stalled waiting on more information from the applicant
and then >> okay >> we are going to as we said mayor >> you're not asking us to take action on anything. >> Well right now well kind of I'm asking for direction. Yes. because we are pursuing a code enforcement action through the regular code enforcement process to go to the special magistrate which obviously we the council doesn't
have to give direction on that. Uh but we are s recommending another alternative method that would be would go uh contemporaneously with this which would be for the city to actually file a lawsuit uh against the owner of their property to have the building declared
basically a public health safety welfare issue and then ask a court to issue an injunction uh telling them to stop the to abate the the the safety issue and that would involve we would need direction from the council if to pursue that.
I'm going to go right down the I'm going to go from here. Council member Fletcher. Um I would be 100% in support of um of of that recommendation. Um I believe this body has done everything in its power to to assist throughout at least my time and and over the years. Um
so I would I would support that recommendation in its entirety. >> That's the number two thing, the number two option. >> That is correct. >> The abatement lawsuit. Okay. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. I second uh your motion
>> and I did want to say sorry mayor and sorry uh uh council member Gilbert is you know this is the last thing any of us up here um want to do to somebody's you know property so I just wanted for the record that to be on there as well
>> and again council member I this is the end of the end this isn't a week a month a year or six months this is we asked you to do something and you're doing something and I don't want to speak out
of both sides of my tongue, but a lawsuit in this area is definitely necessary to get something done. And again, I I appreciate you looking into how we can fix this. And I I certainly
approve and approach that and I'd ask council to consider that also. Mayor, I yield back. All right. Have we been in direct communication with with the owner? Not just >> I personally spoke with the owner. >> Yeah. About six weeks ago. Um I will
tell you the the he told me on the phone when I spoke with him that uh I could tell the city manager that he had he had ordered the new windows and he would be providing an a copy of the invoice for
his order. Um and That was, like I said, six weeks ago. We haven't seen anything. >> Okay. Uh, Council Member Urban. >> Yeah, I've heard that story since I' I've been on I think the day I got on the council. He told me is ordering the windows. So, um, no, I just 1,000% in
agreement with Council Member Fletcher and Deputy Mayor Gilbert. This is just beyond frustrating. they have been um in my opinion abusing the the the rules, abusing the the permitting laws to drag
this out as long as possible and and uh it's just I'm tired of it and I'm fully supportive of moving forward with this. So, that's all I have to say. >> All right. And I haven't seen the inside. Y'all have been dealing with this project before I got on here, of
course. And but I do know the city's been dealing with this for a decade almost back Yeah. before the last mayor was even on council it started. So, okay. I mean, you've got your consensus right there already. >> All right. Thank you.
>> That's all I have, mayor. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Thank you, >> city manager. >> Um, yes. last week um or I'm sorry, last meeting. I think that was last week. Uh the council asked for us to prepare a letter um regarding the um old sugar
mill to to Oyola County um to see if we could get some signage about it being a historic site. I know um Councilwoman Paul also mentioned that she might have some sites and she did send me an email um and I I I didn't know if you wanted to bring it up so that we could
potentially modify that that letter. >> So yes, um someone sent me a screenshot of a signage already for Hamilton Dist. um there's already a historic marker, but um I if the county is also
considering doing these things, which I've also asked the Ocola County Historical Society, which I am a board um member on there, and um that is a conversation that I'm also having with them because I indicated this same idea
to them as well. But if they're considering on entertaining this, then I would like to also add the Narusi Authorfell Cemetery because that is also historic as well on if the county is going to be doing this. If we're going
to approach the county with it, approach them with other ones that are also in the county as well. So, >> and that will that's in the JPA of course that's it will be in the city. >> I agree with you on that one. >> Okay. So, that was consensus. So, we'll modify the letter and we'll and we'll add it.
>> The the current Hamilton Dist is I know Paula Stark, she she mentioned there's one down at the >> what near the bathrooms by the water treatment plant >> at the end. >> I think so. That's the screenshot that I got today from someone. So,
>> that's the one that we tal should be probably moved >> to the sugar mill. >> Agreed. the remnants of the sugar. >> And uh >> so we'll talk to Miss Stark about that if since she's the one who I think got the original sign. Um and then we'll
modify the letter for the Arthur Fel to add Arthur Fel's Cemetery. Am I am I understanding that correctly? >> Okay. Thank you. >> And and I'll throw another one on there. I mean, since we're doing it, right? Oh, >> the old train turnound in Narusi behind
the hardware store. How cool would it be to to I I know. Well, the problem is may we don't want people It's somebody's private residence. >> It is. >> I don't know. Maybe one day in future councils that that gets preserved somehow. You know what I'm referring to?
That's where the train >> it was the concrete the structure that's built into the ground with the train turned around and Johnny Frier's grandma's old house right there. Um, I also at the last meeting, um, Deputy Mayor Gilbert brought up RE
across America. The total cost that we're expecting is $600. At the time, he had asked if we could use, uh, the contingency money for it, um, which that would require a budget amendment, which is going to cut it very close to the time of the event. So, I'd like to ask
if we could use um, the community grant line item. Um, previously when people would come in and ask for stuff, we would we would say go apply for the grant. So, it it's a it's typically what the funding source we would use for that. So, I wanted to see if council was okay with that instead of doing a budget
amendment. >> I see I see three. Okay. Thank you. Um, >> I think we agreed on that. >> Yeah. Um, and then the, um, the last thing I have, I think I've individually spoken with council members, uh, that
the clerk of the court left, um, the downstairs area. We have a lease and as part of the lease, we were we were supposed to receive six months notice um, and we only received one month's notice. Um, I don't have the authority
um, just to let that happen. Um, so I'm asking for council's approval if you're okay with that. Um, it's about $7,500 that we're talking about total. Um, it is it is citizens money. Um, either way, um, it's public funds, but looking for
direction. >> Deputy Mayor, the question that that we had in Dan will explain this better, but we had six months out clause, right? >> Yes. Both parties had a right to cancel. >> So why aren't we collecting that money? That's why we're bringing it up.
>> That's why we're bringing up >> essentially. Do we enforce the contract? Yes. >> I if I guarantee if that's flipped that entity would enforce our contract with them. So I would think we would just do the right thing and enforce the the
personally that's a business thing. I I leave it to pleasure to the council, but it's a it's a deal. You make a deal, you live with a deal. >> I saw three. I think I saw Mr. Fletcher, Mr. Urban, and Mr. Gilbert. So Um well well Mr. Manzeris will help um with
this. >> We will we will advise the clerk. We I spoke with him yesterday or the day before and he we told him we were going to seek direction from the council. I advised him that the city we I did not feel that the city manager could wave that provision and we
wanted to get council direction. So we'll let >> Does that include attorney fees? >> No. >> We're going to put that on that too. >> Oh, you don't get paid, do you? Yeah, you're free. >> Well, that's the thing. I mean, we got to go collect this money. You know, that's the cost us money.
>> Well, >> I'm sure you've spent about an hour >> talking to Veronica or us. I mean, it's it cost us money to >> That's the beauty of our arrangement with the city flat for you. You don't >> We just love attorneys of this city.
>> That's all I have. Thank you. >> All right. Do we want to move um we had economic development and proclamation. Do we want to do that now or do you want to >> your call >> or do you want to save that for another I mean we've only been >> let's save it for the next workshop. I'm sure it's next one's coming up in the
next week or so. >> Tomorrow >> October 23rd. >> I'll be here. >> All right. That's fine. All right. Next. Uh Council Member Paul. >> All right. So um this week I had an interesting conversation with a citizen
um regarding um you know us as leaders making the right decisions and um stuff like that. So I just wanted to share my response to them. You know as leaders I think we all can agree that we try to do the right thing for the most part of it. Um, at times there can be challenges,
but you know, for me, um, and I can speak for Jennifer Apollo, but you know, when I put my hand on the Bible and took a oath, you know, it's the real deal for me. So, I always try to lead with integrity when it comes to decisions.
I'm I'm just a um I'm the kind of woman that likes to receive all, you know, informations before I'm pitting the cart before the horse and stuff like that. So, um, like I told them, you know, at least we try to do the right thing. Um, sometimes it can be tough, but, you
know, um, I just like, you know, moving with integrity. And when it comes to decision making and stuff like that, I don't like to u make a decision based on half information or not, you know, full information. I rather have the full information or when it comes to that.
So, I just wanted to share that on record of what how I responded to them. So, thank you. And um yes, I do have one more thing. I wanted to see if we can also um have a workshop with the business downtown community. I've been
having conversations with a lot of the business owners there asking what some of their challenges are, but would like to um invite some of the the downtown business group to a workshop so they can share um some of their concerns that they have and how we can, you know, be
better um as a growing city. So, and >> I think that's a great idea. Um they do the the Wednesday markets and other activities there. So, do are they doing the wine? >> I I I think that's a individual business that does the wine wall.
>> You're right. It is. >> Can I ask >> timing wise? We have a long list. The I how soon you'd like that uh workshop to to be? Is that a a special workshop or is that a add it to the list with all the other ones?
>> We'll look at some >> December is open. They might be busy during December that with Christmas. Yeah. Well, I think we can do one before then. We'll find a date. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we can find a date before then to talk about all these other things. I think we can throw it all on there
before. >> November. Yeah. October is definitely a busy one. >> We meet at 3 in the morning. >> As long as it's after 6. >> We just started late.
>> Council member Fletcher, I'm sorry. You need to go. Council member Urban. >> Um so um sorry a little Okay. >> Did you wake up? >> Uh the um
there earlier at the workshop the there was a couple people from the EDA committee on in the audience and I know they wanted to discuss a number of topics as well. So, I would recommend um on top of u Councilwoman Paul's recommendation to meet with the downtown
businesses. I know we have a growing list of workshops uh to do, but and this doesn't have to be any anytime soon because I know we have a lot of topics to cover, but I would recommend having a workshop with the EDAC committee as well if we if we have a council like to do
that. >> I saw three nods. I'll add it to the list. That's all. >> That's all. >> All right. And council member. >> Um, I have nothing at this time, Mayor. Thank you, >> Deputy Mayor Gilbert. >> Got a long list. Look at this.
>> No, no, no. I staff, I certainly appreciate you being here. Uh, we we've came back from Daytona. Uh, started at 6 and it's 9. And I know I don't know when Melissa got back, but we all did. Uh I
brag about St. Cloud all the time to every person I meet. I I learned so much in the in the meeting planners conference, what engineers do and meeting planners do. It's really wild it how they interact and how they do it. But it makes us a better city. One thing
I got out of it is that we're pretty cool, man. We got great planners in your department. We got we got some good stuff going on because uh uh I think the mayor and I were sitt >> the mayor and I were sitting next to No, not you, but but the mayor and I were sitting next to each other and this this there's one guy from Leburg that's
looking for a planner for two and a half years and and and that's that's the tough part about it. So, you know, we've got some good things going on. So, uh I I I love to praise things. Uh so,
if we could praise that, that that would be awesome. And I learned a lot. And Justin, it was so cool that uh I applied for a um additional uh service that the uh si uh the employees of St. Cloud got
and there was an evaluation done and they said, "Well, this uh service it was legal. It was legal fees." And Dan, that's why he dropped his >> computer. made some money >> and and it said, "Well, the council's not included because they work 7.5 hours
a month." And I kind of asked somebody, "Is that a day or a month or a week or a year?" But, uh, >> it's a payroll code. That's what I found out. >> Oh, yeah. >> It's a payroll code. >> I I looked I go, "Man, you know, I get overtime today." >> I was going I was filling out overtime.
I turned it into Kelly and she said, "No, you don't get overtime." But no uh uh but you fixed it and thank you for doing that. Uh we got a great city going to meetings like we went to. One thing I'm reassured is we're we're we got it
going on. We're doing good. Uh we got more projects than any other city. We got things going on. And what I heard about from the other meeting planners, which engineers and meeting planners, correct? There's a difference. >> Urban planners. And there's a difference. you need a master's degree
to have an urb urban planner that there's a shortage. So I know Melissa's working I know the city manager is working on to work with different colleges and universities to intern this to make it a positive versus a negative because it it's something that's needed
and I think we can entice people in the city of St. Cloud to do it and I know Melissa is doing that so I'll get off my soap box but Dan I don't like lawsuits but yeah we got to sue that hotel but but We we got to do some things and and with
this I yield to the mayor, but I appreciate everybody here and I appreciate all the work everybody does and the city staff that's sitting here tonight having to listen to us and and we got a good dude over there running the the the uh the citizens and I look forward to going down Lake Lake Shore
and seeing you there, my brother. Are you back talking to him? >> Well, I am. I always talk to I always talk to Coupe. >> Yeah, Coup's my man. If you ever had a best friend, it'd be cool cuz he owns that money like it's his own. >> Yeah, but this was >> that's the guy you need is that guy right there. >> He gets a vacation now.
>> He does. >> He's done. >> As as many of the year, >> no, I echo those comments. Had a great time in Daytona. That was uh with city manager and and our community development director and and a lot of staff. Love seeing everybody there and
and some staff from Ocula County and uh pretty much saw where Melissa came from. you know, from the county and also from what Ovito, I think, >> and met her old boss and Veronica's old boss. >> So, uh, you know, after 20 years, I finally got to hang out with the other side of the table, you know, from the
commercial development world. And then from up here, it's I I didn't never really got to hang out with them. So, I had a great time. Uh, Ken got to show off his his fancy moves like he he loves showing those off. Um, >> Mottown, baby. >> No, it was really a very it was it was
really cool. The coolest was yesterday I went and uh one of the seminars I went to the the presenter was the director of bombing operations at Avon he he's the director of the Avon Park bombing bombing range. >> Really? >> Yeah. So I told him I said what the heck you guys dropping because you know we hear it all the way up here. And he said
oh yeah that's that's us. And so you know when you see on Facebook people like what's that noise that rumbling? It's them. So they got 100,000 acres down there. He's a lieutenant colonel and he was a pilot for 20 years. So, it was uh it was really cool and and we got
to hang out with the city manager for CMI >> and um got to show him what being cool is like. >> That's why he lives in St. Cloud. >> That's right. >> And that is all. And let me find the the agenda for this one.
We can wrap it up. Oh, and again, thank you staff directors for the putting together the budget. I know, you know, Jeff doesn't do it alone. It it takes the city manager. Uh, I'm not sure the attorney has any involvement at all. Um, but >> he says you can't buy that.
>> You're in there somewhere. >> No, but >> you've heard my I went to law school because I can't do math. So, >> but it but it truly was a joint effort. You know, we got the finance committee, we've got Scott, we got every every member and staff participated in that
whether they just collect a paycheck based on the budget or had some input on it. It's u it really is a joint effort. So, thank you directors for everything you've done and everything you continue to do. And thank you Jeff. Tonight was your night. Congratulations. And um next we have the information
section. And so Thursday, October 2nd, 2025, we have the community redevelopment agency meeting at 3M at city hall. Is it still at city hall or we moving on to the community center? >> I thought you were going to do it downstairs. Yeah. On the first floor in
first floor in the planning in the planning. >> So I was half right. Not here but not there. >> Yeah. And um so there is a um at that time sorry there there's a training that Mr. um Coupe Mr. David Off and myself
have to attend. So um we may be in and out a little bit. Um have a have a short meeting. Um but there's a few things that we have to get done. >> Okay. Thank you. And Thursday, October 9th, 2025, city council meeting, 6:30m at the St. Cloud Community Center.
That's when we make the move. October 9th. All right. And with that, this meeting is adjourned.