e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e United States of America and to the Republic which it stands one nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all ready for Rural call member Christine lestr here member Patrice Campbell here chair Elizabeth lamug here member John dulo not
present member Jalisa Collins has excused absence member Caroline Rody has an excused absence James axelon here and Alternate Don snow here Madam chair we have a quorum um Jack Morganson sitting
in tonight for Mr manzer attorney for the board and uh we do have uh nope we're all set I'm sorry we're all set all right um was there any opening
business no all right if um has everyone had a chance to check over the January 14th um minutes and if so does anyone make want to make a move
to I can make ation to approve okay oh motion to approve yes can you hear me yeah just make sure you're on the mic everyone and Madam chair we have a COR all of the participants are are um voting members this evening okay thank you do you need me to do it again we
have move to approve is that motion to approve please just call for a second second all right all those in favor say I I I right all those in um all those opposed all right the minutes have been
approved and moving on to new business uh looks like we have a COA 24-24 Das um address 1425 11th Street good evening members Stephanie streer senior planner for Community
Development tonight I'm presenting COA 24- 0241 1425 11th Street major so the background is it is located within the central business district to our cbd2
zoning District it was built in 1925 the proposed scope of work is a roof replacement but specifically they will be removing the existing roof and underlay it they'll be repairing any damaged wood they identify once they remove those items they'll be installing
a new double layered synthetic underlayment and they will be installing a new drip edge and adding architectural shingles so this is the north elevation of the home this is the aerial view of the current roof as it is so the reason it
was triggered to be a major review is because they are changing the materials from the existing metal to shingles this was routed to our consultant and she found that this does still retain the historic character of the structure and within the district it
is visually compatible both with the property and the histor District as well the materials roof shape and textures proposed are appropriate and consistent with what would have been built in 1925 so staff is recommending approval of COA
24-24 based on the finding that the proposed alterations are consistent with ordinance number 2024 47 and we are requesting approval from the historic preservation board both staff and the applicant are available for any questions does the board have any questions yeah I
had one question um I noticed in the paperwork we got that didn't mention which color shingles you're going to use um do we care so I believe the applicant it was supposed to be a gray color it's a georget a Georgetown gray
that was one of the options but the color scheme at the end of the day we can approve what was proposed in the packet because all of the colors were consistent with the historic District Mr L if you could speak into the microphone just having a hard time here it's not I don't think I don't
think his is on okay test I'm off there you go thanks hey I've been the Builder here since uh 98 and I have done a lot of historic buildings in town and I didn't really like when they Chang the
historic look of the metal to shingles um yeah I think the most important thing to consider is uh to maintain the historic aesthetic you know of the building unless it's you know economically not feasible to you know to
you know the material is not available you know so our consultant did find that the shingles would have been consistent with the 1925 structure for this building she reviewed that the metal would not have been consistent with they didn't have shingles back in
1925 perhaps it may be the historic character she found that they are in line with the character the only thing that was back then was they had wood shingles and then they did Clay uh you know tin copper uh shingles didn't come out for
years later they had asbest panels um but they didn't have shingles back then so I mean I know on the uh the Secretary of in ior standards you know of Rehabilitation it does say in there that you know it is recommended to keep the
look at the building you know what I mean so unless it's not economically feasible right you know unless it's like cost thousands and thousands more dollars or something to change it but I mean that's the whole reason why we're up here is to keep the Aesthetics of the
historic buildings you know well I can let the applicant perhaps explain she is working with Habitat for Humanity on why they chose the different materials sure sure good evening one everyone my name is Lucy GTO with habitat fre Humanity great Orlando and aola we're actually
partnering with the city of St Cloud to provide roof replacements for owner occupied structures in the city and this is one of the applications that we received to address your question about the original materials as you can see from the shot that's up on the screen um
only a small portion of the roof has that metal shingle that you did sometimes find uh in structures of that age the rest of the roof was replaced with a 5D metal crimp over time so that historic fabric has been altered um I
will say in the surrounding neighborhood uh a large majority of the homes are asphalt or architectural shingle so if we're looking at maintaining what consistency with the district I would say that the architectural shingles are in keeping with that uh I would also add
that the metal shingle is about three to four times the cost of architectural metal shingle but not metal corrugated roofing right and I would say in uh I do have a historic preservation background uh the the metal um 5e metal crimp would
likely not have been that original material it would have probably been more the metal shingle that was original to the home but more than more than asphalt shingles though right the asphalt shingles would be a change in material that is consistent with the remainder of the district even if it was
not right because I'm just talking about the material it's metal so we're talking about Metal shingle that's I know that's dated they do have it today but it's not economically feasible probably for that building but what is is is the crimp you
know the the regular you know five crimp you know the regular metal we use today you know so oh um I um believe you know looking at right here I do see a a 1925 ad for aestus shingles so I I think they were
probably rare because back then they were probably the more expensive but they didn't have yeah that was like asbestos shingles they do have asbestos shingles but very very very rare mostly in this town we have asbestos P panels
like siding but there was no asbest Roofing here but uh at one time there was but it was like very rare because it was very expensive they would just do metal roofing was this the only picture you have uh this was the only overhead picture that we have um it it looks like
some of it may have been cropped off we use drone photos to take overhead pictures um the main portion of the house which is predominantly what you're seeing one side of that roof is metal shingle the other side is that 5V metal crimp and then there's a shed roof in
the front that's 5V metal crimp yeah I mean you know that's what we're here is to try to preserve the look at the homes so you know I'm sure shingles would be fine I mean I've been building for many years and we had they have done it in the past you know I have never done it I always replace it with
metal it's just a little bit more but it's not too much more but it also would ensure the length of that historic home that we're trying to preserve shingle is only going to last 15 20 years uh somebody's goingon to have to replace it Metal's going to last 100 years probably you know what I mean so that's what I
think I'm just going to say I know for a fact that the metal roofing actually is better for your insurance I know when you get the when you get the the inspection that comes through the metal roofing they usually end up getting a better rate yeah are you selling the home are you preserve how what you no
we're actually Contracting partnering with the city of St Cloud to provide roof replacements for owner occupied structures in the city the homeowner is actually here this evening I'm sure she would like to speak as well but we're really just acting as somewhat of a
contractor to the city uh and and taking in applications uh to qualify for that roof replacement program that's being funded by the city of St Cloud through federal funds well well the city of St Cloud has a historic preservation
board so the city is covering some of the cost of the roof is that what I'm hearing they're they're covering the entire cost enre okay everyone's going wow I need a roof okay [Laughter] uh there is a limited pot of funding I
I'll just put that on record there any other comments or questions from the board I think the home owner yeah yeah I was gonna let her finish and then have you come up so is everybody done with yeah sure Builder okay so all
right we'll have the home own come up hello I'm the home owner Melissa Walters um I have recently I was diagnosed with cancer so of course unfortunately I have a lot of medical bills that's why I reached out to Habitat for Humanity to help cover the
roof um a couple years ago I had the roof for a company come out and they told me it' be about seven eight grand just for shingles and over 12 grand for metal so it is quite a bit more and Habitat for Humanity does not pay for the metal they won't approve metal only
shingles so if it does doesn't get approved then I don't get a roof so um but you know another thing is is that my neighbor right next door two years ago had shingles put on his and he went from metal to shingles right my garage has
shingles so I mean it would match the Neighbors on the same block so I don't like the roof as you can see isn't really bad they don't have any history of when that roof was physically put on but it doesn't match thankfully it's not leaking right now but if you were to go
up to it like physically look at it it looks very brittle yeah so I I reached out to Habitat I F at the application I feel like it was a blessing that they approved it um that's why we're here today so fingers crossed um but the metal is they don't cover the
metal yeah so yeah I mean I would be glad to help you somehow with metal you know I mean I have and insurance don't care I my homeowners insurance actually this week reached out to me and they want external and internal evaluation of my home and the
first thing they're going to come after me is for a roof and then they're going to drop me and I've been this is like my third or actually like I guess it's been longer now going into my fourth fifth year living there now and I've been trying to I I spent money updated the electric coal because I know that was an
issue and so I've been trying to every year update something um which is hard because excuse me sorry what's the difference in the price of the like what is habitat paying and what do you have to pay if I can ask so Habitat for Humanity um they pay for shingles
everything the whole cost of the roof 100% 100% um I like I said I had a quote a couple years ago from a roofing company and it was a big jump so and then my insurance company told me it didn't matter if it was shingles or if it was metal it was the same concept in a few years they nag you in about 20
years to replace it anyway so yes it does not leak it lasts longer but in the long run our home owners insurance in Florida they don't really care I have citizens because you know I have a really old home so that's the only homeowners and I already pay a lot for homeowners well to me the problem is is
that the homes that are in the historic district you know are going to face this issue now now we're going to have an issue because all the homes are gonna the Metal's going to come off of them and they're gonna be shingles so it's up to the board just I'm sorry but that's just because
homeowners insurance it's so so expensive here right like it jumps up hundreds thousands of dollarss every year that's a lot but we can't and I I understand that but we have to kind of have a a baseline that we have to go by
exactly well my neighbors they just got approved a couple years ago and they went from metal to shingles and my garage went from a year ago went from metal to shingles right but there's and it was all approved so it won't match the other structure on my property right but if we keep doing that then things
are going to just continue to change then if we want square a window somebody comes in hey I want a round window you know I want to change my sighting to stucco uh I I was here not long ago about that as well and they approved the roof on my garage right so I mean it's
we've been trying to make you know they just sent me an email the city sent me an email today they want to give me a grant to fix my yard you know but I don't and there there's nothing against you at all I mean I would help you believe me I could well you can if you'd
like I mean I have cancer I just fought cancer and have thousands of dollars worth of bills for that you know it's it's just that you know we're here trying to preserve a certain location in the city so another thing is when you buy a home in the historic district they
don't tell you guess what now you're facing this now it's like facing an HOA I didn't buy a home in an HOA for that I didn't know that in historic district it was a battle to do everything right that's where the real turn needs to start
real the because it is a a different breed I'm sorry for that too I am sorry for that because it is a problem so we have a conflict you know metal is not that pretty you know honestly it's not I mean those are metal shingles and that's
really really old I I have a home at 11:06 Oregon I'm restoring it for five years now and um it was built in 1925 but it's a metal roof but I just it's it's beautiful so what am I supposed to do if you don't approve it
like nobody I don't have the finances to spend 12 to 15,000 for a metal roof and we're going into rainy season and I mean it's it's really old well if I could mam chair
just for the Comm it's it's completely appropriate to have some interaction with the property owner and the and the staff and the applicant um but this is you you should take all the feedback you wish to get from the public and from the applicant homeowner but it's not a conversation or they're not here to
answer questions or give advice or seemingly give advice uh definitely take your feedback certainly any bit that you wish to give so I just want to kind of stream it that way okay because you're you're sitting here as a deciding body on something so gather the information you need and then we're going to need to
see those criteria that you all will need to rely upon in making your decision as a body going forward with the the certificate okay can I ask a quick question the photo that's up there the building on the side is that your garage it's a yeah it's a little it's a
like a plastic a shed do you have a photo of your garage where you were approved for shingles um I don't have one on me right now I don't think do you have photo of the roof yeah the difficulty is going to be that
whatever subed is going to have to become part of the packet so we're not going to be able to we're not going to be able to accept that from a phone unless you can transmit it somewhere where it can be illuminated and made part of the packet oh and the and the they're saying the projector okay if we can get it to the projector that's that's wonderful I'm just technology
yeah I'm just curious because I mean the house is already pieced out kind of just any piece of evidence that the board's going to rely upon has to become part of the file but you said you came before the board and it was approved the shingle the board approved it or the city
approved it no the okay was this the one okay I'm going to go back was this one where the sighting was changed to I remember this and I think you were at this one that was was more familiar yeah that's that's the only thing that looks familiar is you this was one not working
I can't was trying to pick you up I should be yeah the structure and um we got the termite people out there to take care yeah I think the thing with the the roofing on the garage um was because it
was a separate it wasn't part of the historical home I believe I I mean it was always it was original to the 19225 ma' I have to get okay you have to
you have to be on the on the yeah I think that was the there's no record of anything on the property so I don't know exactly there's no record of the roof it's been patched you know it's old brittle so the garage there was no
record of when it was built nothing so can I ask a question um how many other homes in the area still have a metal roof on that block I'm not sure I didn't go around looking at everybody the roof oh sorry we wouldn't
have that inventory unless we physically went around and looked at all of the homes or they would come in for building permits or historic preservation but I assume that's kind of what Christine was getting at was that that's why she was
saying that it was okay is because I'm guessing the majority must be shingles correct um but when do we stop you know that's a great question um I would I have to ask that if that's a question for another time that's more of a
political than a yeah I think I think that it's best that the that the board within the context of the presentation focus on the property at issue yeah I know it's tempting to to to look down in different regions down the street Etc but you know you have to take the case
as it's presented within the confines of the Land Development code what you're all required to do so Mr Lulu so I have to I mean I agree with you I I think that there's a certain level of like okay there's got to be enough and you got to keep with a consistency sure and um and the only reason I think that on
this particular one I wanted to see the garage was because number one are the shingles you're looking at getting matching what's already on your garage We're not gonna have three different because I'm looking right now at three different sets of roof right here like your your shed is one your the one side is another so that's why I want to make sure like if you're shed or I'm assuming
that's a shed yes it's a little tiny plastic like a pop shed it's not a permanent structure okay so yeah I mean if it's cohesive and consistent that's a little bit better then oh yeah I don't I would not want something that didn't match I looked at all of their options I made
sure it matched so but I do agree with Mr delulu on that like there's a point in time where we have to say okay if we're going to be historic we got to stay historic you know what I mean so but then it won't I mean it won't get done and it won't match my garage yeah so for her um does there any other
comments relating to questions about this actual Pro oper I guess one question I have is it it was said that the city was paying for the roof but then it was also said that habitat I applied through habitat for okay so and
you get the funds through the city is that what I'm understanding yeah that's a great question yes we get the funds through the city it's specifically through um the federal government cdbg program commun development block grant that the
city of casmi receives or I'm sorry the city of St Cloud receives an allocation each year of that funding to serve uh low-income families throughout the community so this funding is from that
uh the reason that the homeowner stated that we would not replace the roof is honestly we do not typically do metal roofs and the sole reason is the cost because we have to serve as many people as you ly possible and if we spend three
times the cost of a a shingle roof on a metal roof that's fewer people we can serve um so if if the board determines today that we need to stay with the metal roof we would simply need to consult with the city of St Cloud to see
what that next step would be um but that's the reasoning behind that we um we receive all of the applicants approve them through our process we work with the roofer we pay that bill and then we work with the city of St Cloud for reimbursement so that's kind of how how
that cake is baked right so then it sounds like if the city of St Cloud was willing to give the money it would be feasible to get a metal roof yeah it's simply if the funding is available right and it should be the city should you know allocate money for the historic district a certain am at least for metal
roofing so you could have free you know metal roof my understand is okay I was actually going to just ask that okay um good evening Tisha Manning Zing manager for Community Development the cdbg funds are allocated through
Economic Development they're e um allocated for a certain amount of time and a certain amount of funds per each person they anticipate serving so um Anette is not here she is the director of that department and she could give you of course better details than I can
but if the funds that are allocated to serve x amount of people is exceeded by her going over a needeing a metal roof it is quite possible she may be denied for the funding can before we make a decision can we find that out can we find out a
little bit more information or is there uh d uh people within the city that will do more of a um a benevolence type roof and come alongside the city and allow them metal roof to go
up so you have a a a a roofer who has come alongside the city that has offered to filling that gap of what you guys don't want to or cannot um fund fund the city has partnered with habitat and and that is
their partnership again I can't give you the intricacies of um how they got into their partnership with habitat for these roofs but that's who they've partnered with um habitat stating that they you know are trying to serve as many people
as possible if you want to continue this item then the applicant will have to come back to the next meeting um we can do some more research and give you some more answers I was gonna ask does she have enough time for that uh I believe I again I don't know when the grant Clos
it could be possible that I'm sorry when this your ma'am to come to the microphone do you got Tisha do you have estimates we don't even know what the difference is right right I mean we should know that you
know so they said I had until March after that I would not be the first part of March the end of March did they give me they didn't give me a date they said they have an exact year I believe and then it that's it so it was granted a year ago it yes this started a year
because of the of living in the historic district and everything like that and I had I submitted all of my paperwork you have to submit all your financial paperwork in May right and because of the historic district it takes a very long time to get approved for anything
so wow it has to go against it the the board meetings sometimes they get um postponed what I that's what I was told and I don't it's it's taken it's almost been a year so I I'm not in charge of that but I know that they said come
March then it would be it that would be next month so yeah because we've had meetings and we would have loved to for some reason it was I don't know I I don't know what but I know personally when I file with the um
the city it takes a while anything like I put a small section of fencing up just for my dogs a really small section and that took a long time to get it approved and everything like that but I know it does take a while I I'm going through habitat so I'm they have a process as
well they have to go through so many hands I guess I don't know but it March will be a year so then do you actually have an estimate for what your roof is now like the roof you're planning to put up with the gray shingles you have that estimate I don't I don't get that information do do you have do you have the
numbers I do not have a comparison I have the cost of the proposed roof shingle was about $6,700 yeah to replace I think we would need at least a comparison because as a builder you know I would like to see if
it's in if it's in line with because we do we do metal roofing and shingles you again I don't know if having the comparison would still have really um um his
name I had a comparison a few years ago it was 12,000 it was 12,000 foral what's the square footage of the house it's 820 that's wow that's a lot that's exuberant yeah that's just crazy just a few years ago and that's why I didn't do
it because I figured the electrical was old and that was more of a fire hazard so I attacked that first was the electrical I had old box I did that did I had old like paper wiring the old old wiring in the house I attacked that first over the roof and then I ended up
getting breast cancer and I've been battling that for a couple of years so that's why the roof was put on hold because the electrical came first but yeah it was I think they quoted I have it in an email but I can't put it on the projector for you and and if it was the quotes probably wouldn't be any accurate
anymore anyways because of how much Chang this was three years ago I think two or three years ago my uh thought is and let me know if I'm wrong um if um I don't know that we can really the price would matter in the scheme of things it's not up to us to decide based on the
price of something whether we are going to allow a homeowner it's but the but I I understand that but the price is determining if we use metal or shingles the habitat wasn't going to cover the metal if I could but she said that it was City paying for it if I
could the the Land Development code the factors that you're to consider in context of the application are fairly Broad and they should be in your packet there's a there's about 10 uh emboldened uh subject matter items to
consider we don't have a pack the well we right we don't okay well then that should be well we're goingon to have to include it in the Pres is it in the PowerPoint but okay okay I'll go I'll read I'll read through them for you that those email packets have what factors
you need to consider that's what the Land Development code asks that you consider these are broad uh topics if you will it's the issue of uh the cost and such is not specifically identified as a as a factor obvious it's relevant to the to the case but the the factors
to be considered by the board are number one a property shall be used for its historic purpose or placed in a new use that requires minimal change to the defining characteristics of the building and its site environment the response from respond is currently there is no this is from staff
there is no new use being proposed at this location existing use shall remain number two the historic character of a property shall be retained and preserved the removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize the property shall be avoided answer from staff the proposed
alterations retain the historic character of the structure and is visually compatible with the architectural style of the property and the district number three each property shall be recognized as a physical record of its time place and use changes that create a false
sense of historical development such as adding conjectural features or architectural elements from other buildings shall not be undertaken staff comment the proposed alterations do not introduce conjectural features or create a false sense of historic development four most properties change over time
those changes that have acquired historic significance and their own right shall be retained and preserved comment no known changes to the property have acquired uh their own historical significance five distinctive features finishes and construction techniques are examples of patmans ship that
characterize of property shall be preserved comment the proposed architectural shingles are appropriate and consistent with the roof shapes materials and texture commonly used within the district furthermore the project does not involve the removal of distinctive materials that characterize the building
six deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature the new feature shall match the old and designed color texture and other visual qualities and where possible materials
replacement of missing features shall be substantiated by documentary physical or pictorial evidence comment at the time of roof removal any damaged wood will be repaired rather than replaced the materials being replaced do not contribute to any distinctive features
of the structure number seven chemical or physical treatments such as sand blasting that cause damage to Historic materials shall not be used the surface cleaning of structures if appropriate shall be undertaken using the gentlest means possible comment no chemical or physical treatments are being proposed
at this time eight significant archaeological resources affected by a project shall be protected and preserved if such resources must be disturbed mitigation measures shall be undertaken comment no significant archaeological resources
have been noted at this site nine new additions exterior alterations or related new construction on the same parcel of land shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property the new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing size scale
and Architectural features to protect the historic Integrity of the property and its environment comment the proposed alterations do not destroy historic materials or introduce conjectural features and meets the requirement for size scale and massing 10 this is the last
component new additions or related new construction on a parcel of land adjacent to a historic property shall be undertaken in such a manner that if were moved in the future the essential form Integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired comment the proposed scope of work does
not affect neighboring historic properties that's that's the report and those are the comments those are the those are the factors the Board needs to consider and come into its decision so um you know I understand the relevance of the discussion of the finances but
those are not specified at least to my reading in those in those in those criteria per se well component number nine would be the one I think would apply most which would be does it change the structure of the historic preservation see I was looking
at number six okay can you reread number six again number six is deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced okay where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature the new feature shall match the old in
design color texture and other other excuse me other visual qualities and where possible materials replacement of missing features shall be sub substantiated by documentary physical or pictoral evidence that's number six did you want to hear number nine no I mean I remember number nine unless anybody else
wanted to hear it no I mean I think if if I mean for me the only thing that I guess for this one and I understand what Mr Vu was saying and I agree there's got to be a time where we're like okay we got to stick to a certain pattern I mean if the garage is one thing and now the house is another I
mean maybe this would be the only one I could see possibly making an exception yeah yeah and the only reason I was talking about the price difference is because it says in the uh the Secretary of Interiors a standards of Rehabilitation it does say that under
Roofing that uh it does say that um you know if using the same kind of material is not economically feasible you know it says then you can you can consider a compatible substitute and what that is is kind of broad I guess yeah that is a hard one to you know but it does say
that that's what we're supposed to follow under our ordinance in St Cloud that that's here that the that the staff approved on I just feel like as a a board it's a tough decision because I my heart hurts for you because you're in a situation where you need help exactly
yeah and however we're put in we're appointed to make decisions to hold the Integrity of our of historical aspects of our city and where the city has a a budget that they've allocated so we're kind of like we're kind of like between
a rock and a hard place their budget and your budget and then we're making the decision and that's that's tough I mean I don't I don't know how the paperwork works but the city saw where my home is at so right I mean but of course there's
no time to go back and battle that as well you know and then my homeowners on the 21st they're coming out to look at my property and they're going to drop my insurance or Skyrocket it I have no idea yeah but I mean this is Florida you know it's a battle well the city allocating
the funds and knowing where your address is they're they're not knowing necessarily that you're going to go with this particular situation they're allocating you a certain amount of money which is great but they I guess they don't realize in the historic district it could be different you know I don't I guess I don't know true yeah right yeah
from what I gather they're not allocating her anything it's just strictly that they will replace the roof right the roof right which is you know yeah if she could you know that be almost better because then she can you could possibly make up the difference right um I don't believe that's an
option from what I'm hearing it would be quite a bit of a difference um is if if if the money if you have enough money and say that you could find it cheaper a metal roof could you do a metal roof if you found it cheaper I I think the the
big question would be is if there's funding available through the city to cover the cost obviously um um if the applicant was requesting metal roof uh that is typically something that we would respectfully say no to because of
the cost and number of people we have to serve if a if a City Board is requiring replacement of of metal uh to maintain Integrity with the historic district that would be a conversation that we would go back with with our partners in
the city and and discuss and then of course we always look for the most viable um Source uh economically viable Source we are held to certain procurement requirements because this is federal funding so we've already gone
through a bidding process we have a roofer that's been awarded that contract but of course they would be sourcing materials as economically as possible so a lot of this is just if if the board does decide to move forward with
requiring metal today that's additional conversations we would have I a question that I probably already know the answer to but you don't have any historic pictures of the home do you since we really don't know what was historically on
this house no uh just from my professional experience um it could have been a range it could have been wood shingles originally these metal shingles these are 1925 I had them on my house those
the metal shingles on the I don't know if it's on the left side of your screen or it's just on mine but that is what we're saying is like definitely not economically feasible metal sh possibly yeah the metal sh prob not yeah probably not
but but the regular metal yeah that they do everywhere yeah I think my question is the the 5V metal crimp is not necessarily from this time period if we're looking at a 1925
house kind of came in a little bit later so I understand the the desire to be historically you know accurate and sensitive to the district but that that metal crimp would have been introduced at a later time it's not necessarily original to the house it's been a 100
years almost it the house has been there she's held up quite nicely but the the crimp is it's been out like 80 90 years good evening TI Manning zoning manager again I would also like to remind the board that any major reviews
that come before you are reviewed by the city's historic preservation consultant and the recommendations that are brought before you have been reviewed by the consultant so her recommendation is that the shingles is also incompatible
with the district and could also have been used in that time period as well so just remember that it is not just staff we have hired a professional consultant that has also reviewed this property I can say I I appreciate that and I
respect that but we also are appointed to the board with a task to do what we feel is by the rules of this and so while I appreciate that and I accept that the staff did their research and we have a consultant as well I I we'll take that into consideration too but we are
also able to make our own decisions as well and that's why we're asking the decision the questions we're asking to come to an educated decision no I understand that but I just wanted to remind new members of the board that there is some consultant that also Rees I have a I have a question you guys
hear me no you're still what about now hit the button it's lit up it's on try turn off turn back on maybe hello yes so is there a way to be able to find the information that the
board is needing not jeopardize all the hard work she's already put in because her deadline is imminent like March it's like fa little time to do administrative things is there a way to not jeopardize
that deadline and get the information that is being required well if I just before um the applicant response if if the question is leading to whether or not the board is inclined to seek a continuance that's the discretion of the applicant it's not the discretion of the
board that that's in the in the court of the applicant so because they brought it here for you to make a determination I'm sure that they're going to want your support and if that means they need more time you know so I don't know that's going to have to be on the record left up to them correct I do I do want to
just remind the board you you don't have your your packets I guess um uh well yeah they decided to stop printing them up for us so okay well we gota my understanding is they were emailed I don't I don't know but they they are
they're emailed yeah they're emailed the the 10 factors um are to be considered and if the board's going to take a a position that any of them have not been met for whatever reason it's going to be have to be identified as part of the board's action tonight so we're going to
spend a little time going through this if there's some concerns about you know not not approving the uh uh the application the staff in their report which I guess is part of the uh the email content staff recommendation which I know was presented orally was that
staff's recommending approval of the of the filing scope work removal of the existing roof and underlayment repair of any damaged wood installation of new double layered synthetic underlayment installation of new drip edge installation of architectural shingles
okay so that's staff recommendation coupled with the application and so I just wanted to make that clear going forward I'm sorry to interrupt your question okay yeah that's okay I'm just wondering in reference to an amicable
option is there any leeway for that uh the deadline was originally based on the city's deadline for us to to spend that funding uh when we uh were informed that it was in historic district and we would have to go through this review I did
have that conversation with City staff and let them know that we would likely miss our deadline because of this request and they indicated that they could request an extension through the city council I know that is p it is not gone before the city council so I can't
say for certain yeah absolutely we can extend it we we'll do everything we can it's not a deadline of ours it's simply a deadline for the funding um but staff's opinion was that there might be some leeway but is ultimately up to the city council for that I understand and
my question for the board is in terms of you know wisely using the Council of a professional in this what specifically is still unanswered based on the professional's opinion recommendation
that these materials could have been used in that time is that a I mean I the whole board if there is any further yeah what's what concretely okay is unanswered at this
point because I know that material was well definitely this part of the roof was there since 1925 they replaced it with some you know some other metal that we use today which they have used 80 years ago on barns and stuff and houses
for people who weren't you know they didn't have a lot of money you know the shingles that you see on the part of the roof people had to have some money to put that on the the other side is the people who didn't have that much money so is there a possibility that the people of that time were doing
shingles that they couldn't afford the metal they didn't have shingles back 1925 I mean there's also a professional saying that they could have been so I don't want to go against aola County Historical Society and we have original
homes from 18 and 1900s that are shingled so I don't know you know the the difference of maybe like the area but just for that they they I didn't see maybe because maybe the first first homes were as best as shingles maybe but I haven't seen any in 30 something years
since I've been and I mean in any way shape or form to doubt your opinion and your representation sure but I do appreciate training in that area and she did go to school for that so well it just says you know like if you look at the the ordinance that we're looking at
the city right it says to you know they're they're referring to the uh the the Secretary of the Interior standard of Rehabilitation which which we go by and and in there it says it has a I heard you earlier crystal that's still
in my work so the problem is if you want to go strictly by that they would have to do metal shingles so either we are going to suggest that she has to have metal shingles well doesn't have to be specifically the exact same well then I
guess that's where I'm kind of going back to agreeing with our consultant that if we're not going to say they have to do replace what was originally there then yes doing what is around the surrounding house I think is fair it just says compatible you know Madam
chair if I could just suggest the board is to maybe um extract whatever else you wish from the applicant or the property owner or staff open for public comment because this is the discussion clearly that needs to take place once you've closed the public portion of the hearing and then you can okay engage I see I see
your yes so I I would if if there's anything more that the anything quite any more questions for the public no that's fine I'm good okay so then I am going to go ahead and close for public comment and we can continue our
discussion there's no no public comment oh do we ask for public yeah we should we should oops it is my first uh day doing the chair so job they introduced uh asphalt shingles
in 19 or 1893 can you come Clos to the micophone I'm sorry they they introduced uh Asal shingles in 1893 so sir can you state your name and address please Ford fleetus uh 1425 11th Street okay and name for Ford fleetus oh
okay thank you are you are you with the property owner are you okay okay I'm sorry because if if you're not you need to fill out a okay thank you guest yes I guess one of my thoughts are the fact that when
people look at the shingles as opposed to even a a metal roof not the shingle metal people are just going to see metal and and shingles they're not going to see oh this is a shingle metal or this is a they're going to see metal or or
shingle and so as a board when people come into the historic district and they see that the decision was made for shingles they're not you know what I'm saying or if it's if it's metal they're not going to go oh yeah that metal wasn't that kind of metal back in 1925
they're going to look at oh it's older home it's got a metal roof MH or it's a older home and it's got shingle roof at the time that they built that house asphalt shingles were available right but they were they were but those if if I'm not mistaken those were like really
expensive homes like they didn't they weren't really common at all well it was very uncommon to even have a home back then I'm just struggling on which direction to go because I don't want to set a precedence of
but yet then again I don't want to um have you keep minging and yanging trying to get have any more comments from the public agree exactly carrying on is there anything else from the public did you have any more questions
comments okay well this is for public comment now not from the applicant that from the public is there anybody from the public that wishes to be heard on this matter please come forward so not okay so then you can follow up with if
you wish with the owner staff or applicant and then you can close the public okay all right um so we'll close the uh from public uh is there any more comments from the um staff and the
applicants now you come up okay um this is is just a reiteration that apparently the historic preservation board has already approved the replacement of her garage to shingles so when we're discussing setting a
precedent that was already set on this property so maintaining the metal on the main structure with then be consistent with the approval that was already made to switch to to shingle um but that that's the only comment I have I'm sorry is the uh the
Gage connected to the house no no was it original to the because our home has an original garage 27 was that original to the 25 house 1925 house there there's no way to know okay that's probably why the
board made that decision it was probably within I don't know 60 years it was definitely materials but it has asphalt shingles on it too and that they I guess they approved that based upon the neighbors down the street
originally well I would like to look at the I'll go home and look at my notes and stuff but I'm thinking yeah that structure is 100% permitted and is done everything's done do we have any more comments from
the applicant or staff okay so now we will close close the public hearing all right so closing the public commenting and and now discussion and opening for the board continuing discussion yeah
continuing if you guys don't mind I don't mind speaking first but this is where I stand on that I agree with Mr dulu I think going further going forward there are certain things that if it's not already in that situation the one thing that is kind of I think Patrice and I are probably on the same page if the structure that's next to it which is
the garage whether it's freestanding or attached it's already got shingles on it and that's been approved and that's coming front of the board and you said you remembered it yes and you remembered it then I I I do believe that that has come in front of the board I don't doubt that at this point in time I would rather see a consistency than to see
mismatch I think that's where I stand on that one but going forward I absolutely agree that we have a we have something an Integrity we have to uphold that's where I stand let me make sure I understood you what I heard was since there's already been the approval on the
garage continue that and then moving forward let's pay more attention to these correct and I think that's why that's why I asked them if the shingles are choosing for the home match the garage because to me that would be no-brainer that would have to be I mean you can't have like orange shingles and
purple polka dot you know on the other one I I definitely think they should be consistent and solid the whole way through that's my opinion understand and as she said moving forward we we have to continue to set a precedence within the
historic you know area so that we you know can do what we've been appointed to do and and do it as well as possible Madam chair if I could at this time just remind that everybody's a voting member tonight so once any motion
has been seconded and ready for the vote you're all voting and on the mic so we can all hear you thank you so anyone would like to make a motion to approve or deny and remember the motion I apologize has got to be based on the on the 10 criteria that we spoke about if anybody
wants a review of anything or question I've got it right here what which was the one that was the consistency and the cohesiveness was that that number nine no that was six I think I thought six was repairing with what was matching number six is and I want to go through
this again so deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature the new feature shall match the old and design color texture and other visual qualities and
where possible materials replacement of missing features shall be substantiated by documentary physical or pictorial evidence that's the one you were asking about that was six correct that was number six correct okay so that's why I'm saying I think number nine is the one number nine is new additions
exterior alterations or related new construction on St pars of land shall not destroy historic matur that characterize the property the new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing size scale and Architectural features to protect the historic Integrity of the
property and its environment got you okay so these are the 10 factors to consider when in support of whatever motion you're you're making thank you so based on uh a clearer reading of number six
and number nine I would like to make a motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness application as presented based on the Secretary of interior standards for treatment of historic properties and having heard everybody's contribution I don't believe number six
and number nine go against that writing okay I'll second the motion if if that's okay do I need to go into the hole no okay so that motion is now uh right for
a vote if you wish to vote you can have discussion but it's right now to be voted upon because it's been seconded is there any more comment to be made before we make a vote okay so all those in favor say I I I I any opposed any
opposed so passes 70 all right so passes 70 and you're good all right okay with your new roof y you're good to go all right um so uh next on the agenda is any
um public comments regarding anything else today yes step on up my name's Tony Campbell and I attend most of these meetings and if um I I I guess a
recommendation would be uh that we do have a consultant and possibly do a workshop because this meeting tonight there was so much here here and there and here and there and the consultant is a professional so I I would just recommend to the staff or the board uh
to do a workshop to cover the stuff that the that our attorney covered so that they will understand and is the next the next people that come up and want to get something changed to their
house or addition to their house it will not be so crazy because tonight to me sitting here like I said I've attended all these and uh tonight was a little bit crazy so and that's my recommendation to the staff is to have the consultant come and do a workshop
for the board I agree we have a lot of newer members and it's I know yeah definitely okay that's just my recommendation thank you thank you thank you any other comments questions okay we will move on to
individual board comments would anybody like to make any comments bring uh any new information any um I looked in my email and I did not see the components that were supposed to be emailed to them I only had the bylaws attached to mine that I
that I can see so now it's a possibility my firewall didn't allow certain things to come through because it initially when you and I were emailing back and forth we had a lot of problems so if maybe there's a way I can either get you to email those to me separately please so I have them going forward or if we can have them printed out to be readily
accessible for us that would be extremely helpful please and thank you um I have a uh question um I know we voted for a new chair are we going to vote for a new co-chair or a vice chair it was not on the agenda and I was going
to bring it up but there was some of the folks arrived later and so at the time I didn't think that it was uh necessary but now that it's essentially everyone's here uh save for Miss Collins um as a housekeeping matter before closing for tonight if you like to uh take action to
appoint a vice chair you could do so right now you would call for a motion the the Motions are voted upon in the order which they're seconded so if there's more than one candidate and you can fill that chair tonight if you wish yes okay so I would make a motion to you call for motion I call for a motion to
nominate a vice chair uh nominate a vice chair I second that well you she's calling for a nomination so she not motion she's calling for for nominations I know for vice chair can we find out how long everybody's been on the board
because I'm I know I'm new so I'd like to I know Miss Patrice has been on there for a while and apparently Miss Elizabeth has as well right that you actually kind of read my thoughts I nominate Patrice Campbell that's I was actually gon to recommend that but I wanted to make sure I wasn't cutting anybody else off at the knee so there's
there's a motion from Miss Campbell I'll second that motion okay and there's a second all right all those in favor or wait no would anybody else like to nominate anyone else no okay all those in favor say I I I miss Collins are you
on the microphone thank you is that I you have to vote I have to vote you have to vote I okay there we are so pass is 70 congratulations okay okay there you are yeah it's a rule you have to vote yeah
um unless you have I do have another comment if we uh or question Maybe one thing I've noticed that would always be really helpful for us at the board is if we have some historical photos I don't know how much maybe the staff is trying to get those and they're just not
available I know for my job when I do phase ones we can get at least pretty old aerial photos sure of towns and I'm wondering if that's something we can start making part of the CRA application is to have to make sure if they're available to give it because that's going to help us a lotre that's a great
idea yeah that would facilitate education along with um what Mr Campbell recommended and it doesn't have to be an owner's um way of delivery just maybe load it up to a Dropbox or maybe Christine what books did she study that
gave her the opinion that she had and I want to make something very clear by the way and I want you to understand what I was what I was trying to say to you is I understand she's a consultant and I take that into consideration and respect completely what I mean by that is I I know that
every district has different things in their historic I'm from the city of Philadelphia which obviously we know is the first capital of the us we're a very old city there are certain parts of our city that have certain historic district things that are steadfast that are not acknowledged in other parts of the city
and with that that the reason I say that is I understand she's a consultant to that but the city of St Cloud has its own unique past and we have certain things here that other cities may not have seen and while she may have studied historic things in other parts of our town or even our County for instance St
Cloud and its downtown little area is it's actually really quite cool and unique in its history and it's definitely something that I agree with you Elizabeth that I think the photos going forward would be amazing because when you see them sure they're they're really cool very neat so and a photo can
resolve a lot of questions and disputes easily yeah I mean if we're trying to you know preserve this town you know I mean you can see by photos it's metal roofing and siding and you know in other areas I grew up in New York I've been building for 30 years and uh um
it's a little different there you know Breck and stuff but um the other thing I would like to am I on okay the other thing I'd like to request is we we there's a consistency with having our workshops cancelled and I really think
because we are so new that we've got to get those workshops going and we've got to understand understand our bylaws we've got to understand the Rogers rule of you know of order we've there's a lot that we need to as a group yeah it may be the only one that's still on the
board that was here when we did that so they've been canceled because we're working with Christine to come up with good topics to go over and things like that so it's just working with her um stff we are working on all these things in the background I know the board doesn't often get to see but we will we
are anticipating a March work session um I'm meeting with Christine this month to discuss those things so it's not that they have been canc we just haven't had them available just yet because we're working through what we want to do throughout the year because our goal is to have one at least once every month or every other month yeah because I know
being a consultant there is a cost factor to have her on to come to these meetings but when it comes to the bylaws is it something that that we as a board can go through the bylaws and educate ourselves or do we need the consultant
can absolutely go through your own bylaws um the other thing that has been a concern of course because keep in mind and again these are newer board members so please do not uh take this anyway but we've also had lack of attendance at work sessions in the past so that makes it a little bit difficult to try to get
Christine here as well because Patrice and Elizabeth and kolina have been here at work sessions too and again this is not to say that you have not had the opportunity because as you all have been on the board we've not had a work session but keep in mind too the consultant does take that into effect effect of attendance at work sessions
and work sessions are at five so that's another thing that we always factor in but you are free to read your bylaws I know previously we talked about editing those bylaws and as we do ordinance changes Land Development code changes that are these are all things that we're taking into consideration staff is
working on all these priorities we have historic preservation guidelines that will be coming in that's specifically looked at our district only it's done by an outside consultant they're looking they're going to and that's going to be a standard of that will be brought to you then that will be brought to city council so then you'll have even more
guidelines and staff will have even more guidelines to look at those things so we are working on these things it's just taking a lot of time this is something that we care about for the city and we know that you care about so we're taking that effort so I do want to assure the board it is being heard it is being done
there's a lot of back work in the background that is being completed what about Jack hosting a workshop for us and explaining what he already explained to us I did one within within the last 12 months uh for those of you that suffered through it um and we're happy whether it's myself or Dan manzer we're happy to
to put put on that that workshop and go through some of the uh the basics the one the one two threes uh along with the review of the of the bylaws and so forth so sure happy to do it that I think would be most beneficial and I agree with Patrice on that my attendance at
the workshops I think has been 100% personally I'm really grateful for this case because I think there's a lot of things that have happened just because people are pressed on time you know there is there's just not enough time to communicate super well
admittedly just I think everybody struggles with that um and I think this case definitely called us all to Unity and to a form of reset so I'm kind of grateful that we had to Hash it out a little bit laboriously but I think it definitely helped us see what the staff
vision is what our um needs are as well to to feel like our position here has a value right sure yeah I think it gave us all comfort and and knowing that we can ask those questions and then also voice
our thoughts and then somebody else tag on to that and it just keep going and keep going so until we come to a resolution but yeah thank you for allowing us to yeah it's good to have those
conversations yes absolutely yep okay um I was going to ask you why you're still up here but um my idea of the um requesting I don't want to say required because I know that's just not possible all the time but is that a
possibility to add to the application if it's not already on the CRA application for the historical photos so the COA application I just want to say because we can't touch the CRA anything for CRA we cannot touch the COA application um we can review that look at that we did
update the application recently um and we are changing some processes so we can have that but it would be optional if it's not available and we can do our due diligence of course I can have that the consultant also look for those however just keep in mind if there just happens to not be a photo we wouldn't even let
you know if just letting them know that hey it might help your case some if you can show us some old photos you know F Funeral Home has a lot of photos F they have a ton of photos well the Women's Club women's yeah the women's museum the women's museum and to lend to
what you were saying Miss Elizabeth I think too the other thing that would have been helpful today too would have been to see the numbers as well like you know like when you were asking did you guys get comparisons and if that's the possibility do you have them can you see you know what I mean like it's coming to
us and it's a picture of this well and I think the other thing is because we were the the garage was drawn into the decision that it would have been great to have that tagged on to this because then we would have had something to look at and
not just the metal so we can look into including if there's any exterior work that has already been approved on a property that's something that we can add into consideration because I know one of the concerns was setting a precedence and if you've set a precedence for a property it should be more consistent so we can start
including if any other certificate of appropriateness approvals had some impact we can not that on the staff report that would be great and in a way to if in case you know the applicant not make it so honorous and like printing a
bunch of pictures that would State your case maybe just including a link to hey I found this these pictures on this link and it looks like it's a legit link and just pass it on the link because I think we can hear in the meeting go through them by the very least and if not we
could just click for in preparation for thee they would be included in your stock report because keep in uh City management and City councils their goal is to be more fiscally and paperless responsible so we'll email those staff reports to you if you would like those printed it is up to the board
to print them but all right any further comments from the board all right um and just for information our next meeting is scheduled for uh March 11th uh Tuesday at 6: pm
and um I need a I guess a motion to adjourn anyone like to make a motion go ahead motion to adjourn second I second that motion all right um favor all those in favor
hie you need us to turn off microphone nice job I think they come around to do all that and then they don't touch J's microphone don't touch the button do we leave we leave
correct these are those are yours so I know sometimes a little bit ago somebody asked for e e for