e e e e e the clerk's going to run it for right nowy exactly fine job all right guys it's 6 o'clock let's get this meeting started I'm going to do um let's do the
pledge allegiance I pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America the for it stands Nation God indivisible let's do roll call member Christine Lattis Drake
present Patrice Campbell excused absence Melvin Welch here oh so sorry sir my mouth is working ears not Don Snell here John dulu here Jalisa Collins
absent Carolina Rody pres James axelon here Mitchell mkey here all right first order of business is we need to vote on a new chair do we have a a nomination I'll make a motion to nominate
Patrice she's our vice chair currently and I think she'd be fantastic since she's been on here a while and and that's fine and we can do that for for the first thing but then we'll just need to appoint a a second nomination for vice chair after you do that okay so we're for sure that like she's not coming back um
Elizabeth that's correct right as yes okay do I have a second on that motion for Patrice second I second that all in favor I okay ask all right we need a nomination for vice
chair I nominate Christine second all right we have a first and a second all in favor hi I okay all right your meeting okay walk me through this
so I've never I've never done this before so you have to walk me through like a we'll you'll be fine you'll do great I'm off nervous next and you're on the left side of me okay um second order of business do we need approval of the minutes from the last
meeting okay so you can just ask for a motion to approve the minutes has everyone had the opportunity to read them and you have yes yeah can I get a motion to approve in a second a motion to approve John dulu motion well you don't you still have to
vote but you don't have to second okay do we have a second second okay Mr axelon is that's fine then so you just want to know all in favor are all in favor I I any opposed motion anyone
opposed motion you're doing great okay and then we have John a okay sorry I'm taking notes okay and then our our next order would be new business correct yes okay and do we have to announce anybody or do
they that will take care of it okay good evening members of the board Stephanie streer senior planner with Community Development tonight I'm Pres presting COA 25-3 1206 Massachusetts certificate of appropriateness major so the the structure is located in
the highway business zoning District it was built in 1925 and is a masonry vernacular architectural style he has a pretty lengthy scope of work so I'll go through what he's proposing and then break it down for you guys so he is proposing an addition of a gate to the
existing vinyl fence he is creating a parking area in the rear of the property he's adding an ada8 ramp he's modifying the existing door dimensions to meet Ada standards he's elevating the existing porch to also meet Ada standards and he
is including addition of a sign out in the front for his business so the intent to currently exist as a single family residence he'd like to use it as an office space so this is the front elevation of 126 126 Massachusetts it shows where the gate will go on that white part of the
fence and the sign will be in front the sign will be a preast concrete which is consistent with the material of the masonry vernacular structure both the addition of the gate and the sign would be generally staff level minor reviews however in an effort to be more customer
service friendly we didn't want to charge him for several certificates of appropriateness so we included it in the scope of work the parking area will consist of concrete pavers that match the existing area the use of pavers the applicant State Should mitigate runoff to the
neighboring Lots the Ada portion of the parking lot will be concrete pore to meet ADA requirements and all parking spaces are behind the existing fence and cannot be seen from the roadway so that's the survey of the rear of the property the blue is the Ada portion and
the orange are the other spaces that he will be proposing for the concrete papers here we go so these orange portions here and then the blue is the Ada and this section will be the ramp that gets attached to the
porch so currently the existing Doorway to the rear which will lead to the Ada ramp is 33 and 716 in by 81 and 34 in the door dimension will be modified to 37 and 716 in by 81 and 34 in to
accommodate the ADA requirements the applicant is proposing to replace the material of the door like for like which is a steel door for a steel door however a steel door was a later addition to the structure and is not historically appropriate for the
masonry vernacular so we have added on a condition that will be read later that he should do a solid hardwood door rather than the steel door so the propose cope of work for the existing porch is replacing the existing wood with new pressure treated wood as
well as elevating the porch to be consistent with Ada regulations so they will be moving that porch to be flushed with the threshold of the door as well this was routed to our consultant Christine Dalton and she found that the porch does retain several original
features that must be preserved including the porch roof exposed rafters the masonry details and stairs however she did find there were additional items that were added onto the porch that are not consistent such as the turn spindles the metal awning the metal SK skirting
in the deck boards she did find that the entire scope of work does meet the Secretary of the Interior standards should they be the final approval be conditioned so we do have a list of conditions that we are recommending so staff is recommending approval of COA
25- 00003 with the following conditions one all original porch elements including the roof exposed rafters masonry details and stairs must be retained any modification should minimize disturbance to these features the ramp and Landing
should be designed in a way that does not require demolition of the historic stairs and masonry details even if these elements are concealed the replacement door must be solid wood as a steel door is not historically appropriate and was a later addition for the materials for the Ada
ramp must be compatible with the historic character of the building five the existing roof over the porch shall not be modified in design the original form slope and exposed rafters must remain intact and six non-original elements such as the turn spindles metal
awning metal skirting and deck boards are not historic and may be removed or modified as necessary this six condition was added on because if you approve this current scope of work and he was to change anything that was the non-historic features he would be required to come back before the board so this condition allows him to not have
to come back before the board to remove non-historic features so hbb requested action is approval of COA 25- 00003 with the conditions stated by staff staff and the applicant are available for any questions
what do we do you can ask if the applicant would like to address the board would the applicant like to address the board please please come to the podium thank you um thank you first off um we we feel great about all these things the only thing we would ask would be to change
the rear door to not be a solid wood door um wood does tend to swell in the environment there are other options to have a wood like grain if it's a fiberglass door but just the realistic nature of wood in Florida
does not tend to hold up well and it being a reare access that's not visible in the front facade um that would be the the ask if we could have a modification on that requirement sir can you just state your name and address sorry sorry sorry my name is Britain long um 12 I'm
one of the owners of 126 Massachusetts thank you okay and then sorry I mean is there anything else you'd like to address no just just the material of the the rear door if that could be discussed or I don't know what the process with that would be we would go
over everything and then we we' go from there okay correct if the board wishes to change the materials or add or remove any conditions that is your decision when you make the motion okay does anybody have any you know I
think fiberglass would be okay if it was the same grain you know it would give the aesthetic still of the character of the histor does anybody have any ideas on whether or not like this is actually in the Land Development code um Mr maner I
had asked for the for the land dill and code the 10 components that Jack had discussed in the last meeting right I I still haven't rece I had not I'm not able to open the link but I wanted to take a look at it to be able to see if it fits within that within the 10 so in your staff memo it actually lists all 10
of the items that are in there that's it's in the staff menu that the street went over or earlier so attached okay I'm having a hard time with my attachments opening them I know I'm not the only one because she sent that and I explained so what I'm trying to figure out can put it up on the
screen your staff report I do I have a Gmail too but she sends it to my AOL I know have AOL on old person you have a hard copy yeah I had asked for I got I had asked for her copy as well hi Tia Manning zoning manager um if
you're having troubles open any of your attachments you would need to reach out to the board secretary prior to the meeting we do not provide hard copies I did that I did that okay I told her I couldn't open the links and she still waiting for for another link to open okay sorry about that I apologize for
that I don't have a got ANP yes sir St put these on the scen do that thank you yeah there was a couple I know I'm not the only one who had a problem because when she said she kept resending the link because there were several of us that had issues opening
it so what Stephanie is going to show you is is the 10 criteria and the findings if we're supposed to oh it's on here I have I didn't get that am I the only never that was in the link you couldn't open sorry it's printed weird like front
to back so no you're fine that's perfect thank you so the part of the staff report it breaks it down by I believe it's one through nine or one through 10 however many and the italicized are the staff
and the applicants findings the bolded numbers are what the actual standards are so some of the standards staff noted were not met if these conditions were not added on so if they remove the masonry stairs it would not be in compliance with the secretary the
interior which is why we recommended putting it over so if that ramp was ever removed those stairs would not be destroyed is that the only turn spindle in the rear y so what do I say at this point do I just have any well you're you're having
a discussion among the boards so I don't know if there's any other questions or concerns anybody else have any questions or concerns you do have the one issue related to the request of the applicant for the rear door Fass fiberglass door with a similar grain with a similar
grain yeah there's a lot of I've used that before in the past and it kind of it looks just like a wood door you know I mean it's better than the metal door that's there you know what's there now is it is it metal or wood you said metal it's metal yes it's it's existing metal door
that's been there okay yeah jump to page yeah and then I mean once the wood doors painted they can be slick smooth just like that as well so if the intents to keep the look you'd have a better
grain look as well with a fiber fin as well so that's the door you're looking at right there right correct that white door yeah I guess I don't understand the issue with a wooden door so my has a wind door in the front there's no
problem it it just it's just a it just can turn into a longer maintenance issue with it being with the South sun on it it's going to expand and contract more than a fiber glass door would than a metal door and with the moisture it it just turns into it's it's more of a maintenance
thing but you do have a wooden door in the front right no it's fiberglass it's fiberglass okay it's fiberglass with the with the window lights sorry be better than to match the front and the back is there anything against
the use of a fiberglass door any of any cons know it's a superior substance staff could potentially support the fiberglass as long as it retains the original look of perhaps the
wood door so we could support it we have done it both with Windows and with other doors in The District especially if the front already has it correct I have a question about the signage because I know they're saying it's going to be there's going to be some signage where would the signage land on the building if we could go back
to the PowerPoint so the signage is out front here which is permissible in Highway business they are allowed a monument sign do they have any like special signs for historically building or anything like that at this time because we are developing the historic guidelines we
don't have anything that dictates what it looks we try to take uh design cues from the surrounding area however because of the small Lots many of the historic homes don't have signs there are several vinyl signs so the casted concrete is actually a preferable
material maybe it would be nice to have a sign with the year was built or he actually applied for a plaque so he will be getting a plaque okay oh cool good anybody else put the staff recommendation
SL I I had one other question um the parking in the back for the Ada is there enough room to get in in and out of there Stephan I was just wondering around the garage like how the parking is there that will be reviewed outside of this we
don't look at standards of making sure they fit this is just more allowing it to happen the materials and then once he actually comes to do it at permit level we'll be looking at that yeah I was just wondering because it you know have to be able to get in and out easier you know I me correct yeah that will be looked at at permit level or if he has to do a
minight development plan and uh Public Works will be chiming in with that as well that's fine go to the window that has the door the door yeah yeah there it is so based on the discussion item number three under the staff conditions is the one that you
might want to consider changing so the she I wish Christine was here because that would be really helpful because she has given consideration but she's not here so I can't ask her questions can is it possible for her to be here at the next one well I don't know it's it's possible
I think staff is prepared to answer any questions whatever yeah but I I do you just made me realize something she did say must be solid wood there's a reason she chose that word right and I would rather I if if this is her expertise and
this is what she has to school for and she has that knowledge she's the person I want to bounce my questions off of because she has the the the reasoning why she has chosen certain things so I mean to be honest with you if that's the case and I have someone who's gone to school for this and this is their
expertise I'm going to rather go with someone like that yeah I mean the reason for the wood is because that's all they had back then that that is the truth yeah right and there are plenty of homes in Florida who do have a wooden door and I have a wood door yeah you do yep yeah they're sufficient how do you deal with
this falling in the temperature and humidity they're sealed it doesn't ites I I built a few houses here in town with wood doors a solid Hickory it's fine it's just that it's just that it's more expensive that's that's the issue I mean to me it it's more expensive than
fiberglass or metal right that's the truth then if it had the back had to be solid wood but the front doesn't need to be changed so that's what I'm wondering about too no since it is not part of the scope of work it's not something that we are analyzing we can only analyze what they are providing us okay how did the
fiberglass St get on there from what I understand the previous owners before it was enveloped in the historic district they they did things like that enclosed the porch added the white vinyl fence things like that but then shortly after if you look at the permit history um that was when
it was enveloped in all those other parts that weren't wasn't part of it yeah thank you just out of curiosity when was it made historical district the historic downtown district was established in 2018 so it was prior to that okay got
it I don't know me personally like I said if I if I if Christine Dalton you said is her last name Dalton is the um is supposed to be our person we can reflect off of and she has that knowledge I would if she's not here to be able to ask the questions to then if
this is what she's saying then I want to adhere to what she's saying so that's just my my two cents there anybody else have any thoughts okay so Mr Miser at that point what do we do do we well so you're okay with excuse me you're okay with it
accepting the staff's condition all the conditions as presented um I I would vote to have the wood door for sure sure I'm sorry I know I mean I have an expert for a reason I like wood doors right so that that's the case then it would just be a motion to accept the recommendation
with the staff with all all six of the proposed conditions as presented and that's consistent with what the reviewing expert can you can I ask you a question you mentioned something and I am hard hearing that's why I'm going to ask again okay um sorry I literally can't hear on my left ear
did you say at what was the condition that would have to bring him back in front if the non-original elements so because they were added later and they are not consistent with Mason vernacular if he were to alter it and that condition was not included he would have to come back because he's then altering
something outside of what you've approved so by adding this he would not have to come back to remove those items perfect thank you okay since we have nothing else to do we take a vote on it or well you'd ask for a motion to approve is there anyone with a motion to
approve so I have one more question sorry Mr long you had another thought on the I get I I guess I get the question I guess would be to the person who did the the study but just
why why it's the back of the house that's covered to put a really expensive door that's going to pick maintenance I mean it just seems foolish I mean maybe it's ignorant on my side to assume well I wish it was here so we could ask question well generally
speaking the the whole if I could the whole historic preservation ordinance that was adopted by the city council essentially says that this point in time we are going to make sure that every building that is in the historic district as it moves forward retains its historical elements that's the answer
right so it's not necessarily whether it's the right door or the wrong door or anything it's that the door maintains it has the historical elements it's supposed to be have as the building is part the historic preservation district and as somebody pointed out they didn't
make fiberglass doors like this back then they that's the reason why yeah and I think moving forward it's enveloping more and more features into ensuring that they're historic for the sake of the feature the appeal to the
town you know it has an impact on economy it has an impact on tourism it has an impact on which which I would fully I would fully back for the front view you know it's visible from the street you can see but just the back door but okay so if you're Park is your parking in the back am I correct yes
ma'am then I I do think it's pertinent I I do I mean if your parking is going to be seen in the back by your customers I I think it's pertinent and believe it or not I just discovered this week that there's actually like tours hiking tours that happen through all of St Cloud that I did not know about and it goes through
like people's homes at times that's yeah so I'm like oh yeah so yeah and I think the historic preservation thing is more of a um like the Integrity of the structure versus just the veneer of the
structure okay does that make sense and and the the regulations in 2018 were for a conversion mandate moving forward so the more and more applicants we receive the purpose is
to return yeah to the historic nature okay sorry no it's fine thank you again so if you have a motion to approve as recommended by staff with the conditions I think that's what you're looking for I I I don't want to make the motion
I I don't there I have other questions about it and I again wish Christine was here because I would like to pick her brain so that's why I'm not comfortable with making the motion so I'm just being honest I'd like to make a motion to approve I second that with the staff
conditions yes sir to stick with the wood door yeah okay so I all in favor okay all in favor I I any anyone oppose no motion moves all right uh other than you want ask for
public comment now is there any public comment do you want to address again no not and then so with no public comment then you're looking for individual board member comments if anybody has it any
individual board member comments anybody no I do um again if if we're going to take any consideration this is what I was trying to explain last time she has the expertise and she's supposed to be here as a resource for us is what I understand I I would like to have
Christine here I just feel like it's beneficial then and I can ask her certain questions and kind of go over some of the things that are important I mean has anybody else agree with me on that situation no I I agree I mean we've asked in the last meeting is there a way that we can get a workshop with her can
we get her here how do we make that a well you can make the request and staff can talk with we are our goal was to First do a work session to just go over since we have so many new members of Robert's Rule of Order shine law so that's next and then she she's been out um she's been on vacation which love
that for her but um she's we're going to be planning the next and we're going to go over Secretary of the Interior we're already mapping out our goals so that is upcoming for work sessions is she going to be there yes she's presenting the work session okay perfect and then will she be readily available to us for our
meetings we can discuss that with the zoning manager okay even if it's something as simple as like a zoom presence yeah I mean so it's not owners yeah I'm okay with that if she's on Zoom I'm okay with that is that something Mr manzer said we're allowed to do you can
ask for it and we obviously have to work out obviously Miss DOL is a consultant that it's cost the C money for PE so so we yes so Tisha Manning we will pose that question to her um again she is a consultant so she do have other
priorities um but we will pose that question to see to her to see if she is available um she may be she may not be okay so since she's our consultant are we able to reach out to ask her questions regarding these well technically she's not your consultant she's consultant to the staff and the
staff presents the case and that's that's how it is so she doesn't work for the board she is basically an independent consultant that works with City staff when they review these applications okay I'm I'm G to read back over again it sounded like she was the consultant to the board that's why well no initially when when this board was
created and the ordinance was placed she was her firm was hired to put the ordinance in place and create the board and do that but that was the initial scope of their of her retention on behalf of the city this process then gradually moved over to the staff staff presents the case and uh they do rely on
apparently rely on her to provide information with regard to the review of these applications but it's but that is work that they're providing to assist the staff in making recommendations to okay and I think that's part of the reason why she's given us the standards
um document because that's kind of like the guidelines no I agree but watching watching over again last meeting I saw where there's a lot of inconsistencies between a he said and she said and then when you go back and you look back over it again there was a lot of inconsistencies and and again if she's our consultant and she's the person
who's giving the recommendation with the knowledge and the education that she brings to the table she should be here for us to speak with it has to be to us correct because then why are we here correct she should just correct I I absolutely agree we have to be educated a little bit more I absolutely agree
hands down so that's why I mean I think it's a fair request if she's the consultant I think well no I don't don't disagree I just think I was here when she was here last and yeah she was great yeah so okay any is that it or we don't have any other um no that's it next
meeting April 8 okay and then they'll let us know if there's a workshop right yes there will be a workshop at the next meeting okay all right before 5 o' I believe right motion to adjourn your meeting a motion all
righted all right e e e