to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right um we'll open it up for uh public comment if anybody has any public
comments they want to make all right move on uh we'll go to item number four agenda review and adoption moving Motion in a second all in favor opposed all right uh we'll move on to
number five approval of the May 13 2024 minutes so Motion in a second all in favor all opposed all right then we'll move on to new business uh 6 we got a public hearing for inter interm use permit for
409 College Avenue North yeah thank you chair uh so for the planning commission's background um property owner uh kmkm LLC uh is requesting approval of a renewal for their interm use permit um
this location is located off of 409 College Avenue North the property is currently zoned B2 Highway commercial business district um the property is in uh identified Redevelopment area um you'll
see on the second page here in the memo kind of the um existing makeup of the area near the subject property the makeup is still majority rental in this area as you get closer to Highway 75 and
over to the east with oink Distillery um you have some commercial um there um that has been there for some time the request is uh similar to the request that you've seen in the past for these interm use um right now we've been
going through our rental license renewal period um and they were triggered to be up for uh renewal uh this evening so they are seeking the maximum duration of the 5 years for the renewal um if that
is recommended for approval and adopted by the council then they would go into June uh 17th of 2029 for their rental um use on the property the Planning Commission does
have the right to recommend a less than 5 years duration on this uh if you wish to um other than that pretty straightforward I know the commissions have seen uh these in the past numer numerous times so uh staff has prepared
that finding a fact resolution again with that language that would extend this for another five years um and this does trigger that public hearing so we would ask that that public hearing be conducted as well this evening may have any discussion before
we open the public hearing if not we'll uh we'll open the public hearing for the uh interim use permit for 409 College evue North any wish to speak I have some questions if you'd be willing to come to the
podium it's the house is currently under Property Management um jansy management and it's been like you said several times
before my mother owns it and yeah and sorry could you just state your name just for the record sorry Katie willber from Co Spring Minnesota Diane Schneider with my mother um yeah the renewal that
you're seeking you're not looking to change or alter anything in like previous contracts struck with the city it's just a renewal correct yes okay that was my only question anybody else have any questions or anything all right if not we'll uh thank
you we'll uh we'll close the public hearing discussion yeah for the ones that we did before I want to say it was Nate remind me was it like three or four months ago we had a bunch of bees and yeah we've had them we leave it at five years or did we shorten it five
years we did have a discussion about shortening didn't we correct yeah ultimately five years was the one that was the path that was decided for those okay yeah and each area is really unique just because of the makeup of what's occurring in the different areas and um
you know our ordinance does state that when a area is majority commercial um that you can you know deny that uh renewal um this one is still majority rental um because of the properties around it so and I only bring that up just for you guys because you know talk
about it like this being more rental you know could make sense for five but if you get more of these as it goes butts up to commercial maybe it's you less than the five years to or something but that was all I had I I knew we had a
bunch of these earlier so so that was my only com any other discussion if not I think we're looking for a motion to approve resolution 2024 iup I'll move a motion in a second all in favor I
I opposed serries right that was all the new business we have uh now we're going on to Old business um 7A short-term rental discussion yes thank you chair uh so
this is coming back uh we you may recall we had some brief surface level discussion a few months back on short-term rentals um in the community and kind of from that discussion I'm kind of centered around the idea of
exploring the use in the downtown district uh only uh the council did hold a workshop recently uh last month and one of the items that was on the agenda for the workshop was short-term rentals um and um when that was discussed with
the council there was some interest in exploring this in other zoning districts not just the downtown district uh but also into different residential districts um so there's a variety of different ways we can go with this um I
guess the goal tonight is kind of just to keep kind of a surface level uh conversation um really you know go through the different items because there's 50 different plus directions that you can go um and I think a good
ordinance kind of centers itself around goals that the commission and Council has and then from those goals you kind of start to formulate a ordinance that meets those goals um so you know for homework probably next time as we and we
might go through some of this as we're um you know providing kind of a brief presentation but it' be good for the commission members to kind of maybe start to write down some goals that you think would uh suit short-term rental um
and you know be honest and blunt maybe residential isn't what some of the commission members would like to see um that will help really give a good direction to continue having conversations but then when we get to the point of drafting language we can
really draft a ordinance or options that are meeting goals of the council and the Planning Commission um so uh for short-term rentals um just some things to kind of think about to start the conversation
and please interrupt me as we're kind of just going through my memo here um you know one is really to try to determine where in the community is this use appropriate um and then from there when you start to determine that then you
start to look at how are we going to regulate that use in those different districts because each district is going to have different types of regulations um the regulations that would apply in our down downtown district is going to look different than the ones in a single
family District um and for good reason um there's different conflicts that can happen in the residential versus the commercial there's different expectations that the public has um you know so this I call it a journey in this
short-term rental conversation you know at a certain point there's probably appropriate to have some public comment or feedback as well when we go through this process um how that looks you know could be surveys it could be open house it could be public hearing variety of
different things but at a certain point um it's probably good to to have that um when we talk about the different uh districts you know one thing specifically when we're looking at residential districts is you know um
just one thing I know that the city of St Joseph uh there's a challenge in St Joseph and that's the total housing units in housing availability that's you know a challenge that I think every Community is struggling with um but in
St Joseph we don't have a lot of homes that come on the market um and those homes that do come on the market I know I get a lot of phone calls about you know uh what's your rental policy for typical rental license and I know some of those are getting bought up for that
kind of rental so not saying that short-term rental we would still have that but it's something to think about and consider as we're going along this journey of the short-term rental is how do we also maybe preserve some of those housing units in the community and if
it's allowed in a residential area you know there's a couple different routes um owner occupied uh there's some communities that require those to be occupied by the listed owner who has a primary address at that
parcel um that kind of feeds into not necess necessarily losing housing stock in the community but still having flexibility um because I think that's something I've heard too with like the council excuse me the council is
creating some flexibility you know St Joseph is kind of a we're known to be kind of an Innovative Community with the college and all that so how do we balance those those things out um some communities have non-owner occupied
again that would open it up more so uh so folks would could purchase a home do a short-term rental and kind of be offsite off premise those things um communities especially in larger
communities uh some put on caps so in the total number of units that can be short-term rental you'll see this in well smaller communities too uh you'll see sometimes percentages um tied to the total housing units in a
community so no more than 5% of our housing units can be short-term rental but you'll also see that In Like a downtown setting where say you have a multif family building and you know you have 20 units there preserving some of
those units to be permanent resident occupied and putting a cap on how many of those could be converted to a short-term rental or be rented out as a short-term rental you know if you have 20 a 20 uh apartment unit in the
downtown and not saying this is the case or would be the case but you never know if they wanted to convert 15 of those to short-term rental well now that use looks a lot different than permanent housing and and that so those kind of
feed into um some conversations so um also for talking about like the commercial District you know we have we just had an interm use permit for instance um we still have a decent
amount of single family properties that are still used as rental or residential that are zoned in our downtown uh for commercial and are part of our commercial District so does it make sense to limit
those proper properties on only you know the sole use being just short-term rental or maybe not so there's different directions you can go with those um you can handle them through interm use permits as well conditional
use permits maybe you encourage it to be a mixed use if it's in your downtown uh methods you know again this is going to depend on the zoning District there's typical
rental license or like an annual license that you would apply for but it' be a short-term rental license um defining different things how do we Define a short-term rental what is a short-term rental again going back to the owner
occupied uh language and other things to consider um again there's a lot of different items parking signage events violations and enforcement you know that's more something on I think a
staff level um understanding uh the time commitment or the capacity that staff may have a lot of these enforcements happen after hours so the police often will get looped into it so how do we make sure that police
know that this is a short-term rental and then if so how do those violations happen is it a three strike policy and then they get their license or permit revoked um how would we handle those
items uh noise of course uh and nuisance um a lot of those are covered in our already existing ordinances but you might see a increase in those uh requirements if it's in a residential setting similar to like a
home occupation in a residential setting we can put conditions does it make sense to put conditions on these a number of occupants and then one thing that I think is uh important is right now we collect lodging tax for the
lodging establishments so the roadway in the bed and breakfast um so I think it'd be imperative that these would be subject to that lodging tax which also helps increase the funds that the convention Visitor Bureau
has so it's a lot um I hope that some of the documents I attached you know helped provide some more background or just got you know your brain thinking on these different things um so again this conversation
this evening can you know be on whatever it is uh that comes to your mind um but I think to be fruitful in our next meeting especially is start to really think about goals um that you would like to see or maybe are thinking about in
terms of a short-term rent ordinance whether that's again preserving housing stock um protecting neighborhood character um you know things like that so I'm gonna stop
talking I'm gonna open it up a little bit here and you know again floor is uh any ones and yes I do have a question okay short real quick this doesn't include b&bs b&bs are are regulated
under a separate ordinance correct yeah bed and breakfast is are regulated as and defined in our ordinance different differently yep so there's I think there's um some occupancy standards and some other things um within that so oh
go ahead sorry okay sorry I can't talk today I apologize um do we have already short-term rental in the system that we know of that are
VB or Airbnb so I looked more than a few times on Airbnb and VB VRBO and stuff and maybe other folks have too I didn't see any that were right in the city limits when I've looked I don't know if that's the same for others who have looked um I've seen some on the
outskirts or in other communities but to my knowledge I'm not aware I know we haven't received any complaints on any yeah I just did a quick search here now and I didn't see anything on either side I mean until you get out into more Collegeville and Avon and lakes area
yeah correct yeah and be and I sure jump right no I apologize go ahead continue I'll just stop um because our ordinance right now doesn't address it that means it's prohibited correct correct yeah so I would I would say that myself if I were a homeowner in town you know as a
homeowner in town I wouldn't even think twice about oh I'm going to put my home up as you know I mean as an Airbnb I wouldn't think that would be any need to go through any permitting process if I'm you know if it's a house that I live in and you
know I wouldn't it wouldn't even dawn on me that it would be something that I would have to go through yeah um and I guess that's that's one thing that I'm I'm kind of struggling with a little bit because nor really I'm struggling with why it would
need to be regulated um I I could see it if you I could see why I I think you you would just in the sense of are you g to have people that are going to come here and buy houses just strictly to do that right I think that's kind of what you were saying Nate
right is is you don't want people if homes come up for sale to buy them to specifically just do this almost as like a rental but now it's shortterm yeah I think reg I mean regulation puts the expectations and the standards in a clear hopefully transparent way where
yeah it goes back to the question of um owner occupied or non-owner occupied um you know there has been instances and examples um where folks have purchased homes just to do that kind of a use um and that can cause some
conflicts I've seen it in other communities I worked in um you know whether it's over Sartell or brainer Lakes area is completely different because it's just tourism is like a the thing you know um so it looks a little bit different depending on the community
that it's in but um you know as you can imagine just like with a special like the home occupation um if there's people that are coming and staying every night that are different there might be some neighbors that have concerns whether it's parking
or you know there's examples of you know folks using it as a you know party place or something um and a lot of our other regulations would kick in and would apply it's just a matter of you know how
do we set the tone to if we're going to regulate these how are we going to regulate them what's the proper procedure you did mention something thought that I have doesn't mean that we shouldn't put some kind of you know qualifications and ordinance in place
but most of the vvos and airs that I'm familiar with as we' looked at it's a destination fix that we're going to going to New York we're going to be we're going for some you know some sort of touristy type thing and I'm wondering besides Joe
toown rocks Joe Joe blocks you know that we just did what are the major events what's the major draw in St Jo College college parents coming to visit College it would be short term football
games one week period right or some sort of an event right and then all of a sudden you've got the rest of the year with what that burdens upon the homeowner not the city right you know I think I get it but I'm just I'm just thinking how big of a deal
is this going to be if we don't have some tourist some draw like brined Lakes has got a big draw to bring short-term a week vacation two weeks what's our draw what's going to bring in mat tourist well I think I think we talked about it too it's you got your college a
lot of people come back for the football games a lot of mni come back I know we talked about it a little bit too where and maybe you want to elaborate for your work session of what you think the council thinks but you know downtown commercial like you have those apartments that go over the top you know
to your point it's like if I'm a homeowner I'm not going to move out of my house for a weekend to let someone come in to live there because I already live here but that's me someone else might want to do that some people do that I would say think about snowbirds
right true yeah they only live here half the time and if they can make money by renting it out the other half of the Year R for a couple of weeks or whatever and you know I don't know about you guys I've rented many vvos and airbnbs that's actually what we prefer because it's
it's a little easier you get more amenities and part of the interest too from like a homeowner standpoint if it is I'm may use a snowboard example again is they could rent that out you know for multiple months to one tenant and have a
set rate or they can try renting it out multiple nights and then that rate over that duration of that month is going to generate more money and more income to them so there might be a appeal to do that
so most of us on the council during our work session expressed not regulating it at all including the mayor because many of the issues that Nate laid out for us they're self-correcting issues you have a noise problem we have a noise order for that you got open bottle we have
laws for that so we can try and mire the homeowner in a whole bunch of legislation and rules to follow but they already have to abide by all the rules of the city so why do we need to be unduly burdensome and give them more is it concern with the lack of housing though like a lack of you know long-term
affordable housing for people that are actually here you know versus you just buy it just use it for I don't know I'm just asking the question I guess I don't know if that's what discussed at all or it's not something that we saw concerned what about parking especially the
residential Z you know you've got five or six people cars not people but cars that show up and you got a driveway and you can park one car in the driveway and the rest of them are now on the street and with the people around that be a little upset if they're there for 15 20
days taking out parking spaces on the street they can be upset but it's not illegal yeah well I I guess I don't see it as who's going to come here and stay for 15 days unless there's really you know I I see what you're saying I think the biggest people that you're going to
get are a lot of your alumni coming back for events for graduations for Joe toown locks Jo toown rocks maybe October October Fest like those big events maybe the winter walk but you know to your point maybe not 15 weeks but maybe like
a weekend or because we we have the roadway we have the bed and breakfast but that's not really substantial to house a lot of different people but yeah and you know that is you know uh I would say if the route is to you know
take the you know kind of less regulatory route um it's probably still I would say in the best interest to at least um insert like a definition of short-term rental and just have it permitted you know across you know if
that was the route you know that that's where it fall back to they have a lot of our other ordin es would apply we'd probably still want to put something in there tied to a lodging tax component yeah um so you know and there there are you
know there could be potential concerns and you know we only have the two lodging establishments in the community but sometimes you'll hear concerns from you know the lodging establishments in the community about uh short-term rentals and such um so something to
think about too I guess for me like what I'm thinking when you start getting into those more residential areas instead of not regulating at all I think it's better to start with something even if it's like a cup and then if it's not becoming an issue or
there are no issues then you could always say oh well you could just couldn't you like start off with not regulating it and then you see how crazy it gets in a year or two because you can always go back to I'll get phone calls if if that were the
case know yeah yeah you kind of look at it you know to your point if you don't regulate it you kind of see what's happening for a year or two and then if it starts blowing up and you start seeing some nuances in there that don't jive with what we want well then you reassess it but how does that work then
if people are already kind of like grandfathered in under previous rules I mean and there's it would depend on regulation yeah it would depend on what we if we change anything what we change
it to and then um how that language that we craft so if we if we were to update the ordinance and just say okay this is what a short-term rental is and this is uh use that's permitted as long as there's lodging tax that it's being paid um and
then if we went that route and someone did that and they're starting to become issues we would still reserve the right to enhance the Reg viations it wouldn't necessarily be a grandfathered case in that I don't believe I'm sure we I'm
sure we tie legal into it at some point there' be some wording and a way to allow yeah there'd be some wording um and I mean the biggest unknown is none of us can answer the question of what is the demand what would be the Demand right now we can't find any that are listed but that doesn't mean that there
isn't an interest or there isn't a demand for that so um you know who knows we could be make it pickle out of any nothing or yeah yeah so good talk so I mean just I mean so I have
some guidance I guess and um part of what I want to do too is update the counil um at a workshop level of the conversations that the Planning Commission is having um you know is I mean maybe next time we we come back with
some goals on okay no minimum regulation no regulation you know I just want to get a little bit more of the flavor of the Planning Commission um so I have direction for next time if that works
getting that sure okay okay I I'll send up a followup um and then maybe through email and then just yeah we'll go from from there that okay all right um next item for old
business old business 7B honeybee discussion all right Adam specialy I think Adam might be able to provide a better presentation than me um so uh this is also item that came
up at a council Workshop um this one I think this one's so much uh more straightforward um in the sense that you know one I think the the council was pretty unanimous in support and just you know we we should allow this in our in
our city uh so what I did and luckily I have a lot of research to pull from this I went through this when I was in a previous community so I attach attached that research in there um and how you know honeybees are typically
regulated uh and how we approached it with that Community um even though it ultimately didn't pass uh was basically through a regulation um just a permit just a permit process to make sure that you
know one that there was appropriate setbacks there's appropriate um things put in place to not only protect you know other potential conflicts that could occur but also to ensure that there was some standards for like you
know folks when they are keeping honeybees on the property and such so you know again this is one that you know we can take bits and pieces from you know kind of the that sample language um also threw in uh the memo a variety of
different other resources um if anyone else had an opportunity to review those um the University of Minnesota has a great tool where they actually list out like a lot of the communities that have regulations or don't and you can kind of click on it and see
so um I don't know what else am I missing atam what we had talked about in our previous work session at the city council is just allowing for the keeping of bees within City Limits and I've had
the it's either called the central Minnesota or Tri count beekeeper society around St Cloud reach out to me my wife is a beekeeper uh she has six hives not City on us we have four up by Bolis two in
Lichfield and um I think that's all she has um you know but but the reason why like this is an important topic to me and I've had other people approach us from the community is a lot of people are concerned whether
this is true or not that like we have a significant and concerning decline in like pollinators and for people that have like a garden at their house if they still keep those I do or if you want to have your own honey and keep bees this
is something that's not as daunting or scary as some people may believe it to be similar to other livestock whether it be cattle or anything else there's different breeds of bees you can be and they have all different temperaments some can be so gentle that
you don't need to wear a beit to handle and manage them um like we have Italian bees and they are super L Fair like you can walk up to them you can handle them like they're not very aggressive we
don't get stung we've also had Russians which you may be unsurprised to learn are belligerent jerks so the bees you like select and like where you place them on your property some definitions that n outline would be setbacks off of a property line
and that'd be no different than like building a fence because you don't want to shove the fence right on the property line because what if the neighbor also wants a fence it's just a thing of being courteous and some people have mentioned well what if your neighbors are allergic to
bees and both Kelly Beck and Kevin cler are both allergic to bees and they are both adamantly for this Kevin says that on some property that he owns he's allergic to bees and he allows friends to keep bees he says he drives his
lawnmower around them it's not an is isue well and if you're allergic to bees they kind of know what they need to do anyway if they think and if somebody's allergic to bees people have epip pens like people can be allergic to dogs we got dogs all around town like I cook
steaks all the time my neighbors are vegan it's like you just need to be respectful to like your neighbors so I mean if somebody dislikes bees like you just don't shove it right on their property line and be a jerk neighbor and I think you know I when I went through this in another Community
you know we probably spent six months going through like dialogue and research and such and I think when it started off there was a little bit of hesitancy but then by the time we got through those six months there was pretty General support at the commission level just not at the council level um and one thing we
did was uh if you're GNA you know if that were would have passed is if you're going to have bees that you have kind of at least a sign or something that just says that there's you know honey bees on the property or hives on the property and that kind of just gives a FYI to
folks as well would would it be a couple of things fair to say like you said there like different kinds of be some are much more aggressive than other that you have an ordinance in the ordinance that you would limit or identify what type of be you can keep I don't know if more aggressive ones produce more honey
or you know if there's a reason per having something that's more aggressive or could you limit it to the less aggressive type of yeah still pros and cons to the breed of bees just like livestock or anything else and the rationale for like the Russians is they
hardier so like Minnesota is obviously pretty harsh temperament Mother Nature we all live here and they have better viability to survive a winter and sometimes you know regardless of what you do to prepare for the winter to assist the bees that they're viable they
still won't make it this year specifically my wife Andrea had multiple beehive survive we had a weak in marro of 70 and then we got a foot and a half of snow Yeah so all the bees that come out they're like it's spring this is great and then snow so it's like you
can't predict or prevent that or assist your colony in any way to ensure they survive the one thing we' mentioned that I brought up in our discussion was we could potentially look at limiting to two hives because a really common practice for beekeepers is if you have
wildly successful High column of boxes you can split it into two because you increase their viability like the hood of surviving the winter if they're in a smaller space because just like a house they need to heat that the entire winter to stay alive if they have a skyscraper
it's hard to heat that and and that kind of leads into another question you said you guys have two eyeses it it would go to are you using the hives and you using the honey for your own personal use or are you going to sell at the farmers's market and if you're selling it you're
going to want more hives and can you in the ordinance would you want to restrict the number of hives for personal use when you're when you have your hives in a residential area and move to another location for commercial use I don't know if there's a if there's a difference in
that needs to be out we didn't discuss like an individual homeowner owning more than two we just stated two per property if like your whole block is in beekeepers and you want to have a lock on your block where everybody gets two of your boxes I mean I guess that's fine because
there's only two allowed per property and how we handled that too um Mark was uh in the previous Community we looked at well if you're actively like selling like products like out of your home like honey and such then it's
probably appropriate that you maybe look at like a home occupation uh permit um because then you're you know using some of that as a Comm commercial you know but it depends on the community and if you want to regulate it to that extent or not and I was just thinking in terms
of two hipes per property you know fine but if if all of a sudden it turns into a business and I want four six eight hies to try to generate more business and more profit for me now does that get to be too much in a
residenti it wouldn't exhaust the resources for the bees because they'll travel up to five miles for pollen and water food resources so I mean we could have bees on every property in St Joe residentially and they're going to go out within a five mile radius of the
town to do what they need to do to produce ony is there a need to have I mean this is another one of those and and maybe I maybe I haven't been in town for too long but I would have never if I wanted to have bees I would have gotten bees and had them by my garden and been happy
little camper on my on my lot in St in St Joe um so again you know maybe I need to pay a little more attention to my ordinances around me but um I could see somebody saying hey I've got you know this I've got a great
Garden I've got flowers I've got vegetables I've got a a bigger lot a big yard and my friend wants to keep bees is there a difference between the property owner having the bees and them letting somebody keep bees on their property too
that I mean that would be one thing that I would want to that I would think we might want to address as well my question is if we were address it you and your wife for the the six that you have do you guys have to have permits or licenses for the ones that you have where they are we have some in litfield
city limits no permit nothing required and borign Bolis rural bis so nothing in the countryside okay I guess not as dense though of a population where they are or is it it's
moderately dense and L field okay just you know like your point it's like do you license it so the person that owns the property is the one that has to have the license so it gets away from like hey I've got bees can I put them on your property right you know I mean I and I
don't know that I would care either way but at the same time I think there's a difference between the homeowner and their own personal beehive and the homeowner's property and somebody else's beehive on it I mean that would be something that I would be curious if we
wanted to look at more more in depth um I think to your point you know is if they wildly successful and all they want to put six or eight hives on there whatever I think that right there becomes then it is more of a home home
occupation I think you could probably funnel it down that direction yeah I mean you can you could say if you go the let's say you go the L regulatory route you can you know say that you know a residential property has
the right to keep up to two hives without a permit or a license but anything above that then you have to get a license or whatever the procedure is so I like your density thing here too and just kind of going back to
something that you said earlier too you know you want to be friends with your neighbors you don't want to you know as long as everybody's okay with it fine but what if you you know what if people in the community alone if somebody's got a couple lives and
there's people around there that are complaining because the bees are more of a nuisance do we need to have anything in place to regulate that kind of a nuisance if the complaints start com I think it's something like the short-term rentals where we'd wait to
see what occurs sure a question too just kind kind of building on that a little bit too and I know nothing of I actually like the idea of it a lot but uh um so you got your neighbor kids are playing ball they throw the ball over their fence or whatever you know they hit the hive is that that is that any kind of
danger there to them to get you know a swarm or anything like that I don't know I'm just throwing it out I don't if you like agitate a hive like the bees are going to come out and they'll do something that's called pinging you they'll like run into your head and they're not stinging you but they're
like literally trying to verify are you a threat like there's certain things that you don't do like you don't want to wear all black because all natural predators to bees are black bears well like I shouldn't be doing beekeeping in this t-shirt because like
blacks or black bears raccoons skunks Badgers everything that attacks bees it's black in nature and something that sounds like a misnomer or a joke but you shouldn't eat bananas before you handle bees because like the scent or Caron
that's given off by anas literally agitates bees so there's certain things that'll like agitate them and if like a ball flies and hits the hive they'll be agitated but they don't necessarily know where it came from the kids run across
the property line into your property to go get their ball maybe I I look at at your point like I've got what I would call four nuisances of the kids very very interested and stuff like that you know like that would be my only concern like if kids did something it's like
well you deserve it you know what they look like like I I'm for it but that's those those like you said the wh ifs you're not going to know until you let it happen and then something happens it's always the what ifs and it's not like a certain of one or two things probably either it would be multiple
right if somebody is really allergic to it and and all of a sudden they get several now they really make them mad or they we in black or they just ate bananas or whatever the situation and they run over there and then you know all of a sudden they're getting attacked by 10B you know or more you know I I don't know but maybe that goes back to type of too that you were saying you
know is there something with you know do you not allow certain type of Fe or L agressive or something like that I like the idea I really I like honey bees they're we need them we need them I just know like I said if my my kid throws a
ball at a hive and gets stung they probably do true you know if we do something with the ordinance and modifi it'd be really neat to put some information some public
information out on the city's website just saying hey did you know that these are XYZ and use it as a too old or um I think that'd be really beneficial just from the little bit that you shared tonight I found it very interesting I mean I've got friends that have dabbled
in it and i' know seen them but it was still really neat got s i just before I came over [Laughter] I guess I kind of like the idea of it just because our neighborhood we have mostly wasps and you know they're
everywhere so bees would be nice like they're way less aggressive had them do like wasps and like other things like do they attack bees too if there's like if you have bees on your property and there's like a wasp M to like is it territorial or it is like if you have a
wasp problem and you introduce a large colony of bees the bees will compete and typically win okay good toar they're not going to like invade a wasp nest but if you have wasps in your garden and the honeybees are there pollinating flowers and vegetables
and things they're going to compete for those resources and try to kick them out okay so the was would more than likely leave in their own accord because they're going to be like there's no food or resources for us here so you could make the down to the Russian bees are probably the Italian bees maybe not so
much yeah we had a lot of jokes of we had jokes about French bees I don't know if French bees are a thing but you could imagine where that might go I have so many things going no so I mean overall I'm kind of
hearing um a less kind of regulatory kind of approach um with bees like some standards but don't overburden it um we all support people that want to keep it it's not like they're going to go
HeyWire right my eyes there some minimum standards and guidance no regulations sign or something or just you know just so they know you know you got the fly what do they call it the fly Flyway barrier the fly Airway type thing you know something
like that I don't know if that's critical but if you've got the hive right up next to a property might you know within six feet having some sort of a barrier or not a barrier but so of the be wi up instead of over well to your point too it's also a educational piece of the
like I did not know that they hated black and bananas good to know you know but so I just think you know like like we said nothing no firm you know regulations but some guidance yeah and minimum standards
I see your permit like the one that says the city sartel they need a permit but city sartel is 20,000 people you know St Joe is six seven when the students are here right it's a little different if you had 20,000 30,000 people in the city I guess I liked the idea of like
setbacks from property lines and I kind of like the density thing just because I mean like we have an acre lot in we're in town I mean we could essentially then have four whatever it was or eight did we do anything with setbacks when we
looked at did we allow chickens this is so long ago we did not allow chickens place that you can have chickens is in the rural residential area I remember that was up in front of us one year um the city of St Cloud allows for chickens kennels do we have any restrictions on
like any setbacks on like dog kennel and City for kennels for dogs for uh kennels for setbacks yeah um typically it's outside of the easement areas at minimum um just because it's a paved concrete surface or whatever
usually for those Theory yeah right in theory yeah in a in a good kenno situation or whatever you okay I mean I think you know I think that would I mean in my opinion I mean minimal let's allow them let's put the minimal restrictions
let's I think yeah I think density makes sense so so just a question so in terms of the density stuff um what are the thoughts of um you know if there's a let's say there's a cap on okay you can have two hives um per property but you
don't need a permit and then above that you need a permit or that am I hearing that or is that not think someone wants more than that they probably are doing it for more of a business purpose unless like would you agree with that most the people that are selling honey at farmers
markets are Cottage Bakers so they're working under the guidelines already set by the state where they're not trying to make like a commercial business out of their house or otherwise they just want to you know sell something on the side to make a little money for their household or for themselves and they're
trying to not be limited what they're doing it's exactly what my wife does but at that point if you're selling if you're I've looked at this a little bit with maple syrup but if you're selling it from your house you don't need that Cottage Bakers or that Cottage license
do you I don't think you do at that point if you're literally just like if you're not going to a market and selling it but you're selling it from your house if it's out of your house you don't need it right but if you're at a craft show farmers market a trade show then you're supposed to try and register with the
state and get a actual Cottage Baker license number y but you're still not regulated by the Food and Drug or anything like that but I think to your point you're saying is if they go above and beyond that it probably should come back for more of a discussion of more than two is that what you're saying I I
guess yeah bluntly my question is you know is there support from the Planning Commission to you know put a cap on okay you can have so many hives just outright like it's permitted and then above that then you know maybe there should be more
regulatory steps or a permit at least or am I hearing just a permit across the board no matter how many hives you I don't like the I don't think per okay I think if you go above and beyond I want 15 highes on well I like that
density you got five Aces ACR in the residential area can you have more than two hives without any problem is should there be should there be some sort of minimum standard for different size yep the so in theory basically I take this
table on the hives that we have and anything above that if it's this size lot then maybe there should be a permit or some other process okay anywhere from like 20,000 to
100,000 depending on how large you make the hive yeah different yeah it depends how how you build out the high where do you get your bees from then like a lot of people get them from like
California or Mexico just buy them you can order like what's called a nuke so you get like a queen and some worker bees so then that's like literally shipped to you in box and that's like your starter pack to have like a beehive so you have a queen inste of worker
views you can buy just a queen like if your queen dies and it needs replacing it's like in army with no leader you have 10,000 bees and no Queen like the queen directs them leads them they all work for that one be what's the noise
level that comes off from it's like a very soft hum hum quieter than any generator you're gonna be I mean just for just for reference I mean I would say that's cool awesome well I have some
Direction so I'll come back next month with just uh some drafted stuff and that based on the feedback so thank you all right um 7c General updates yes
uh I'm gonna fly through these here uh the items that were at the May Planning Commission meeting were all those items were approved uh minus the text Amendment the text Amendment though ultimately did get approval at the last
uh council meeting and that was for the um Tyler brelan uh project where there was multiple buildings on one lot and such um the council just wanted to limit that language to just the industrial district um so those just apply for the industrial
district um the house of Hearn the Synergy site old gas station working through the civils we were still awaiting the Civil submitt for that uh but they are hoping to break ground after the 4th of July is kind of
their goal as long as they can get through the remaining steps with us um from A administrative standpoint Hansen and companies that project they're hoping to break ground end of June uh we're still going through some of the civils and
such for that project as well um but June is their goal the uh joint planning board John you're the only one up here that's on that um car's the other rep uh put in your calendar potentially July 9th or
August uh 13th as potential dates email yeah I'll let you know um it's it's preliminary right now uh but basically I just wanted to give you a heads up on that uh August 13 so I think that's the second Tuesday of August so
second Tuesday in August at 7 p.m so I don't think I can make that okay that's fine we have have uh car me and then we also have Bob and then mayor Rick that are on there yeah I think I'm I mean I think I'm coming back that day so put it
out there and okay uh other than that I will be out of the office next Wednesday through the 26th so I will be on vacation any any updates on like the gas
station faes any inquiries received many inquiries I would say many they've received a good amount of inquiries like a lot of real estate I think it's just coming down to price um there was you know they purchased it for
X price they want to sell it for X price uh they did have the preference at first of having a tenant in there and still retaining ownership um I just haven't had update on the that part of the situation but I know they've received interest okay um
for the other one essay I have not got an update on on that from the owner any other questions um Great River Energy's got their complete power line removed over in the industrial park so like promotional resources Has Broken Ground and is expanding out there and
that's going to open up all those other back lots for others who purchase adjacent Lots which is fantastic because we didn't know where that was going to go and um it all happened pretty quickly and they got out there and removed it and everything vacated it so
yeah I've heard it's been delayed a little bit Yeah Yeah happed win closing over after the bridge is done then they're going to close one
one5 okay yeah 75 first and then they're G to close the yeah they're not gonna close that street um for the roundabout until the bridge is done and then they're going to move to that one and then there'll be two phases as part of that one do you think so 28 days yeah
that's what I was gonna say is it probably I mean which is going to really sink for everybody all yeah it'sin going to disrupt my commute from sartel to here I would sartel you got to go way around
yeah yeah so no going home from our lunch break anymore dang it yeah so the update that I got this morning at our department head from the engineer was just that it's been delayed I couldn't tell you the days and all that so yeah I'm sure they'll be
releasing something here in the near near future though all all right any other business Motion in second all in favor all right we're done e