##VIDEO ID:https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/5056?view_id=37&redirect=true## Well, this meeting of the city councils or your roll call maker here. Buoy their Johnson here. Hear him. Council PRESIDENT Sauli here. 6 present one absent being councilmember Kim, who is expected Please stand if you'd like and are able and join us for the pledge of Allegiance. Led for which it stands, one nation, I got all all. All right. Before we begin our business stand want to thank everyone for being here. Members of the public staff, community members. Everyone here for their different issues here on the agenda, regardless of the results of yesterday's national election in Saint Paul, we remain committed to carrying local government focused on our communities need. So I want to reiterate that today. As many are, I'm sure processing challenging emotions coming out of yesterday. It's an honor serve you every day. And I'm proud to be up here with these women making those decisions regardless of what else is happening. Some want to take that moment. Look forward to every item on the agenda today. Consent agenda items. 3.34 before you for your consideration. All right. It's my understanding that we're taking number. 32 a number. 33 separately, are there any other items take excuse me separately from the consent agenda? Seeing none MISS Billy would move the rest of the consent agenda on favor. Say Aye. Aye. Any opposed 6 a favor. No one opposed. The consent agenda is adopted amended. Excuse me item. 32 is resolution. 24 Dash 16. 26 honoring Saint Paul Veterans on Veterans Day NOVEMBER. 11th 2024. Thank you. A look now snicker and any other fellow sponsors who wish to say a few words about this item. Thanks so much, council PRESIDENT. I'm going to a few parts of the resolution and then I'm gonna call up. Some of the guests that we have here from the veteran and military employee resource network. I'm honored to be the council's liaison to that network. And I'm I'm grateful to everyone for your sponsorship today. This resolution is honoring simple veterans on Veterans Day NOVEMBER. 11th 2024, whereas the Saint Paul City Council and Mayor Melvin Carter recognized with deep respect the veterans and military personnel exemplify a legacy of loyalty and service, but defending our rights and freedom. And whereas the people of Saint Paul acknowledged that veterans and military personnel are proud of their military service in defending our nation and that there's distinct honor and serving to protect our way of life and the Constitution of the United States. And whereas the city of Saint Paul has veteran military personnel, employees and family members who continue to serve our nation with honor and distinction in the midst of risks and sacrifices made each day. And whereas the city of Saint Paul recognizes the ongoing work to ensure the inclusion and acceptance of our military personnel and veterans as part of equitable city vision. And whereas the city of Saint Paul a stab wish the veteran and military employee resource network burn to recognize and support incredible contributions of our veterans and military personnel. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Saint Paul City Council publically honors all vterans and military personnel for their dedication, sacrifice and service and Veterans Day NOVEMBER, 11th 2024. And are now to welcome Tom Miller makes an and Adele to say few arts. Good afternoon. Thank you. Councilmember Council, PRESIDENT O mmbers. Good to see you again. This afternoon here all day. I just would say a few words on behalf of its employee resource network. We are grateful to this body for recognizing the service and sacrifices overstay Paul veterans salute. According U.S. Census Bureau, there are 900 are now 1000. Florida veterans living in Saint Paul, Minnesota, between 2018 2022. Salute of those 8, 1796 with mail-in 567 were female salute. This resolution is greatly appreciated. As a Navy veteran with 20 years of service, I am proud and on two-year commitment to those who have served our great country. T our city of Saint Paul employees at a veterans. Thank you for your service flu. Enjoy your purchase day. We have earned it as a Navy was close with this call from a deceased veteran who didn't have bone spurs. Serving it rest to urgently served our country. PRESIDENT John f Kennedy that he said to his remarks, the U.S. Table can be AUGUST. First, 1963, I can imagine no more rewarding career in any man who MAY have be asked in the city what he did to make its like with world as well. I think you respond with a good deal. A private satisfaction. I served in the United States Navy respectfully present it. Thank you all. See you. Chief old, a Brown, retired United Sates Navy. Thank you all. Sincerely for your support. Thank you. My name is Ty Miller. I'm the chair of burn. Really appreciate you taking the sept this honoring veterans and military employees of City of Saint Paul. It's greatly greatly appreciate it. I can't follow him because he That was great. But I have a couple couple things. Should be aware of before the end of Friday. I'll be sending out a video of our veterans and military ploys that work for the city of Saint Paul. And I's it's a video. I hope you all get a chance to watch that. Number we have a flag collection box and councilmember in acres office. So if you have a U.S. Flag that is not serviceable. Please bring it to her office. I will collect those from time to time and number 3 for having the flag disposal ceremony on FEBRUARY 12 Harriet Island at noon from noon to about one. We have Saint Paul Fire helping making sure we don't burn anything down. Yeah, it's a it's a good way for the burned too honor the flag and to make sure that it's cared for and again, on behalf of we really, really appreciate your support. Thank you. Councilmember maker. Thank Especially to our veteran employees who continue in public service as employees of the city of Saint Paul. We are deeply moved by your sacrifice, your commitment to our country and to our local democracy here in Saint Paul. Any other comment from counselors before vote. As we look ahead to Veterans Day, we appreciate having these reflections in mind and the many tireless act for faces of the armed service members of our country, active or not, with that emotion from his nature to say Aye, any opposed 7 in favor opposed the resolution is adopted. Item 3 is resolution. 24 Dash 14, 60 approving the 2024 neighborhood sales Tax revitalization Grant warts. All right. This item is before us for final adoption. It's my understanding. COUNCILMAN Billy has an amendment pertaining to organizations in her ward. I looked her now for further direction on the side. Thank you, council PRESIDENT, thank you. City council members. I am bringing forward a motion to make a minor amendment to the neighborhood star these particularly and word wine. So first, want to thank the starboard for the evaluation under consideration, countless hours going through applications had a opportunity to with the coordinator in the p d staff over the cautious start in neighborhood star. Process also had the opportunity to talk Mayor Carter and make him aware some of my findings after reviewing the applications and seeing that sme of the requested funds are actually deemed ineligible use of funds, meeting that found identified about $20,000 from 2 projects that are going towards planning funds, which is not eligible use of funds for neighborhood star that will work more towards organization capacity are Contra star making a motion to actually we allocate those funds to award one project that meets the eligibility requirements. And the amendment is actually attached to the agenda as well. People want to look at that. Understood any questions for counsel in Bowie on this item. We need to do as amended vote on amendment the amendments and then vote on okay. First the amendment is before council members much from buoy to say Aye, aye, any opposed. 7 in favor nor opposed the amendment is approved and then motion from cancer Johnson to approve the recommendations as amended on favor, say Aye, aye, any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed the resolution is adopted as amended. Item 30 5 is resolution. 24 Dash 13, 40 accepting in early care and education program. Plan recommendation. All right. We heard this item several weeks back and laid it over until today. I look to lead sponsor mistake or for further comment on this item. Thanks, council PRESIDENT Yes, as you mentioned, we heard this presentation from Dr Jones couple of months ago. This resolution accepts the plan and commits us to further conversation about the city's role in addressing the childcare crisis in supporting kids and families. Our city, although due to the election, we do not have a funding source for this We all know what a huge need childcare is for our constituents. And as we've talked about it, many contacts today after last night. All the more that we MAY not be able to rely on other levels of government for the work that we need to do. And there's a lot of work that we need to do here at the city level. So there's a version to your and not just our that reflects that language we appreciate help support. Thank you. COUNCILMAN Acre any further discussion on this. You know, to that MISS Nick arrive. Appreciated your collaboration on this item. I clarify for the record that this action means that we are accepting the report of the consultant that prepared and did this work in close consultation with our offices. This is not commit to the city to a planet to the reported just allows us to receive it and look at those recommendations. I appreciate you working with me on language about cntinued conversation about what the city's role ought to be in addressing the childcare crisis and the needs of Saint Paul children and families. I know that you're deeply passionate about that. And so are all of us, even if we differ and how to get there. So thank you for working with me on this item and welcome to version 2. Any other comments from council members. Go ahead. MISS Johnson. You know, I just wanted to just something say it's really important any time that we have. Such impacting issues, especially as it relates to our kids that I just want to thank the people that had a chance to vocalize there, both their pay and their thoughts on this matter. And so when I look at the version to I appreciate the sentiment space to any result. Ad I think and more importantly by I look, I think that I'm going back to the report that was given to by Dr Jones. I just want to take a chance to once again uplift the work, Dr Jones and the work that she had with our council this year. And s most will be supporting the version to for that reason. I think in many ways there's a lot of thanks to uplift here. But you know which new members are recognized their thoughts. But also when we have. A council member council our consultant that we seek out for the services and providing these plans and providing anything any sort of port press. I just think it's important to look work when it's time. Thanks. Customer Johnson. All right. So a motion from speaker to accept the report and close out the work of this consultant who we deeply appreciate all in favor say Aye, aye, any opposed. 70 favorite. No one opposed. The amendment is approved. Where you just I thought we had just voted and I'm sorry, I guess. Yeah. Is version to on. Here is the eye. Any opposed? And then? And thanks, everyone. Not the day that I had the most at this job. The motion now is from a sneaker to accept this report and close this process out all in favor say Aye. I think you any opposed 7 in favor opposed the resolution is adopted as amended. Item. 36, this final adoption of ordinance. 24 Dash. 27 amending title. 23 of the Legislative Cota at Chapter Titled Wage Theft. After a public hearing and much discussion and effort from our council of says our staff and community. This item is before us for final adoption, too. That's a wage theft ordinance. The city of Saint Paul. Are there any comes from council members before we proceed with a vote? I see my colleague sponsored bp can't. And then I see Johnson and keep track of the line from there came a Johnson. Go ahead deep. It's really the labor. Rain today. Seeing is advisory looking right at you. I was making some calls today and just extend my gratitude to folks I labor and union folks that have fighting for working class folks, not just here in Minnesota across the country. Just to be clear, this ordinance is aligning our city code with state law. And to me, I'm hoping this is just the beginning of a strong, a stronger conversation around workers, protections and workers rights here in Saint Paul. My hope is that this dovetails very nicely into the more work that we have to do together. I I would love us to work on something that we know as a fact unsure is that wage theft is not happening happened and that is establishing a stronger prevailing wage and particularly as it relates to rent stabilization and very grateful for the work of the committee. I'm grateful for My Co lead and thank you, everyone here in labor that has advocated strongly and has been at the forefront of this conversation for working class families here in Saint Thank you, Can I go now to MISS Johnson? Go ahead. MISS Johnson, thank you. I appreciate that. I will simply just say as an add-on to Council PRESIDENT Council vice PRESIDENT's work in the I think we have to hold on to the ones that we have been especially at this time to be honest with you, this is highlight, especially from my tenure here as a council member in part because I believe this is genuinely fundamentally the right thing to do. It's the right call to make it ensures that the local level. Despite what's going on around the the world around us. I think there are certain efforts that we can make to ensure that our city, it's city of Saint Paul, at least where we live. We are protecting workers for checking families. Protecting so many people who often need and advocate for them and allowing our city staff to be able to do that to the fullest extent of the state law. And so I'm just really excited to be able to vote on this item today ad supported and have supported. And just thank you to the committee members who have dedicated their time and resources to volunteer on crafting what this is and to share this one today. I think it's imperative in the future that we take, the ones that we can get and we step up in the places of justice. Wherever possible. And I think it starts and continues to start with community. And I see this is a step completely forward for the city of Saint Paul. Thank you. Cuncil Johnson. Any other discussion on this matter before we vote? All right. With just echo my colleagues, you'll see all 7 of us are sponsoring this because we know that wage theft is affecting our constituents in the hospitality industries. In the home care industries in construction in all these sectors where workers who are literally building and caring for our community, they deserve on his pay for honest work and this will allow us to adopt that model state law and do our part through our. Department. As we call it to make sure those cases that just as much attention as the ones that are big and involve many people and that ally and partner attorney generals and can take on at the state. So grateful to have the chance to pass this positive policy today. And thank you. Labor Standards, Advisory committee and staff who work so hard to get here. Emotion from MISS Kim to approve all in favor say Aye, aye, any opposed. 7 if they were no one opposed. The ordinance is adopted. Item. 37 is first reading of ordinance. 20 forecast. First reading of ordinance. 24 Dash many chapters 65 1.66. Of the legislative code pertaining to drive-thru sales and services and walk-up service windows. I really thought to cnn, abc, nbc and all the other networks to be here to cover this item. But they're covering something else right now. So nonetheless, we forge ahead. I want to welcome builder money here to give us a staff report on our proposed ordinance building on the long-running process to review how we should treat drive-thrus and walk-up service windows in the city. Welcome, MR. Germany, we welcome your staff report. Thank you. Thank you. Tell us PRESIDENT Tells members. We'll have a public hearing on this next week. Want to give your high lever level overview of zoning study that's in front of you. And for anybody in the public who wants to get into more details than what's in this and encourage you to go online. There's member of the Planning Commission of pc memo that's available there that goes into much more depth than what I'm going to go into. Question So like to just go this topics, some background, what the planning commission has recommended to you and then what it means and community tension. So this is a the able to see this map, pop up there. Map of drive-thru since a poll we have about 80 drive-thrus in Saint Paul today. Changes that you make to the zoning code really about new drive-thrus more so than existing budget impacts expansions as well. But this gives you an idea of the lay of the land how many we have some interesting figures here. Well, more than half of our pharmacies have drive-thru is three-quarters of our banks, too. I was somewhat surprised on the fast food restaurants and coffee shops, less than 10% of our restaurants have drive-thrus. And only 2 of our coffee shops out of about 49 or so have drive-thru. So. Interesting back on there. They're not evenly spread throughout the city. The oly 2 coffee shops we have. We're trying to stay West 7th Street in southwest corner the city. There are few problems with drive-thru. Is that cause a study to to go forward? The first of all, there's overall big picture. That our comprehensive plan calls for pedestrian oriented and transit-oriented development, including policies like this are up on the screen and Drive-thrus would seem based on the whole to be contrary to that. It actually. And there are some more specific problems that happen. Put forward or identified in the real world. One of those is off-site cheering. So the backups of vehicles off of a side. This is the Starbucks snowing and Marshall Starbucks is still there. Drive-thru oftentimes backed up. I'm too Marshall sometimes out into Snelling cause numerous problems, safety issues for drivers for bikers, for walkers nearby. They closed the drive-thru, but our code never really got fixed so that that's one of the more urgent reasons to do something with. There's kid. Some other problems that have been identified listed here on safe pedestrian access like that are to I mean, upper photo for people have to walk through the drive-thru to get to building and non pedestrian ordered streetscape. So you know what that picture in the bottom. Curb cuts and cars going in and out in multiple locations to accommodate the drive-thru. Hard to walk across. Certainly did. Part of is to drive through there. Lots of pavement as well. Oftentimes with with tractors, noise has been an issue we've heard about later. Behavior, especially if the dining room was closed because of fast food restaurant. What are people doing outside health has been brought up. Health of people who are watching less as well often the food that served here it's not healthy food and pollution, although with pollution, I caution that it's not as much of a direct impact as you might think, but the indirect impact. Important keep in mind as well. So it make it harder for people to walk or bike or use transit in the city. That just gets more. Car use and we have to accommodate that more and more so that pollution impact actually it again. Cars idling and in And of course, if we didn't have drive-thrus those cars, they still insist that MAY be idling and waiting for people to bring Goods and services to them or they MAY go to a farther away locations. So direct impact, maybe not so great. Want to go There are about 10. Changes proposed by planning Commission by just one hit big 3 that we might be hearing about testimony from the public. So one of the things that the planning Commission is recommending is. No drive throughs associated with restaurants, coffee shops. So as it says here, food and beverage use magnets, restaurants coffee shops. Of course, existing ones could continue. But this is about new ones. Requirement for indoor walk up service during the same hours that the drive-thru is operating so that you don't have to be in the car to get these goods and services. A bank might accommodate this by having atm that's available at all hours. That's a mixture of the building or in the lobby can be accessed. Restaurants like this. Talk about what I think it's a minute, They've got a walk-up window that could a drive-thru window. That's the way for a fast food restaurant, too, to abide by this. And the 3rd. Change that I would highlight is which zoning districts we allow these. And so this is the existing zoning table, but together from various parts of zoning code. See in the case a drive-thru is allowed with conditional use permit in the pues indicates just permitted by-right The standards it. What's proposed by Planning Commission was recommended to you eliminate them certain districts such s and p one which are small-scale business districts. Very small scale. And before in the 5, which are downtown business districts. We're sitting either before the fire right now. But adding t 3 and t 4 as a lot districts as long there's a key standard associated with long as it's part of a larger building. 4 stories in height, 40,000 square feet in size. So this is example. Of a building that would be and what's proposed. So those 3 big changes. The other changes have to do with design standards, such as mace tak in space and making sure that test runs get safely to and from the building. Whatever is adopted by the council important keep in mind what it means in the real world. I showed some examples that are maybe less desirable. But with the design stairs, that Planning Commission's recommended were more likely to see examples that look like these. The top 2 examples are ones that are actually would be allowed by what Planning Commission is recommending. One o the bottom is not, but it has to do with the key issues that will hear from people about so in the upper left is a premier Bank that located across from oh, field. The drive-thru actually what we're looking at it through into the garage. Opening its integrated into a larger building about 6 they were able to make that work own to 3. Us back in the upper right there. That is on Payne Avenue. All the drive-thru lanes are behind it. This meet the proposed design standards. The Starbucks on the bottom. Would the cone always except for one its cffee shop. So new ones like this would not the permitted. What planning Commission is proposing. This is that same Starbucks from above. And you can imagine this being a coffee shop or a fast food restaurant. The Planning Commission is looking at this and recommending not a We don't want to more like this in the city. But amidst all of the other design standards as plenty of stacking space playroom for vehicles to back up pedestrian or into the extended building like this can be. But planning commission is looking at this and thinking that's not a very efficient use of land. It's a very small building. And that's a lot of asphalt still being. Attributed to this business to accommodate and downsides as well. East. Ad where would these drive-thrus go again? We're talking about new ones primarily. Large parking lots like this one out in front target. What if there were a drive-thru that wanted to go there? And it was part of a larger development and helped make development work. Same deal with the Heights that some t 3, what if a drive-thru were part of that? What that drive-thru serve coffee or it was a restaurant served food. And then with that. Examples like this throughout the city that might be infill targets. Gas station or parking lots settles like this and all of your wards. What if it drives? You were part of a development that came in with this. Is that something you would want to know under what circumstances would you want? So with that, I'd be glad to take any questions that you have. All right. Thank you, MR. Germany, for that overview and recognizing it. It's connected to significant. More information of members would like to read, too, that any questions right now from council members. This is just our first reading to air those out. Looking around and I am not seeing. Great. Everyone's a little tired. Go ahead scan I really appreciate the briefing that we had think was last week. What does time? I'm just wondering if you have any concerns are. Hesitations around the planning commission recommendation in general, it seems fairly strict. Sure. Council PRESIDENT Council vice PRESIDENT Kim. It it differs from what it staff recommendation was to the planning Commission. Certainly it's a there's a range of outcomes that would be reasonable. The planning commission recommendation is reasonable. It's based comprehensive plan. Guidance and the planning Commission also notes that we have around 80 drive-thrus in the city that could continue to operate. The staff recommendation had not as strict with the understanding that sometimes. The drive throughs can help with development happened that otherwise it's very good for the city and All the things that economic development brings with the design standards that come along with it are pretty GOD like that. Starbucks that give us most of the way to type of development that we want to get the. Both of You know, planning commission recommendation in previous staff recommendation, I think are. a reasonable outcomes. If the council wanted to pursue Goodman, sneaker, things come present, MR. De Money. I also understand that originally this drive-thru zoning study was part of a larger study of commercial areas, traditional neighborhood zoning and then it got split off. And it's coming to a separately from And we're talking about doing a commercial corridor zoning study next year. Can can you speak to the rationale for putting the drive-thru zoning ahead of the commercial corridor. Zoning sure. Council PRESIDENT Councilmember maker. That was a to district zoning study and recently and compass. This is what as well as many other topics. And got to be quite a large study. And and this part of it was ready to go and seemed like someone of a different topic. We could have handled either way, but this was ready to go. So we brought this forward first. Thanks, MR. Dimon, t I think because this is more about a type of facility and how they should be regulated as opposed to how we could change the zoning on quarters to facilitate potentially better hire use development. I would find that appropriate. But I understand because there's a lot of interest on our council in just taking a look more comprehensively. Commercial Thanks for that back and that is helpful. Go ahead, MISS Billy, thank you, council PRESIDENT, thank you, MR. Their money on the information, an overview and just off your staff walking through it. Can you speak a little bit to The environmental impacts of this drive-thru, if that was one of the callous behind why the study. Was launched. Council presidential. It comes worry. Again, as I said, the direct environmental impact of drive-thru says it's not that great as part of the planning Commission member, you see we kind of ran through typical drive-thru, typical wait times at a drive-thru for like a fast food restaurant and found that the social impact of the carbon emissions from a drive-thru around $600 per year per drive-thru, which is a lot less than I anticipated. It also doesn't take into account. What the replacement. So if people are driving farther to get to the next drive through or if they're just idling out front, will somebody bring something out? The impact MAY be void in the drive-thru MAY not be as great as you However. If we are going to drive less in the city, which is the goal of the city, going to make it easier for people to get around without a car, we need to have a. It built form that makes it easy to do that. And drive through Potentially to turn that to make it harder for people to get around on foot or rolling. So it's more of a big picture thing of what kind of city year we're going to build. How do we get that. That's the greater pollution impact Thank you. Johnson. thank you in the queue for the presentation. I was hoping to kind of back up a little bit and just really understand where this discussion started. And just kind of from a lens of from your understanding, how would you describe this as someone who potentially is like, why is this warranted? And for folks that are watching at home really understanding? Kind of what the what is the major issue where aiming to solve with that? But this change or what? Where's the recommendations stemming from and just kind of like how it landed? Restaurants and coffee shops. Sure. Present Councilmember Johnson. Good question. So. Going way back and I been with the city for only 13 before I got here, we had a comp comprehensive plan that called for more pdestrian oriented and transitory development. The city and our most are. Current comprehensive plan calls for the same thing. And there's been a recognition. Drive-thrus very intense uses with regard to caps. Especially at peak hours. People come in and out of them really, really quickly. And if you look at especially like a worst-case drive-thru, you'll get a stand-alone building cars circling around it all the time, which would seem to be contrary to the sort of development that we will. We are policies called city. So those that longstanding thing, but why now? Certain drive-thrus that caused a lot of problems have put more urgency on this like Starbucks. It's snowing in Marshall's a prime example where the problem was fixed just because the owner decided to fix that. But our code never got fixed. When we open up our zoning code, we don't just fix the most urgent problems. Typical for any zoning study are planning commission and staff. Look at the entire topic and try to bring forward something that most in conformance with our policies. So we look at all of the issues. Some of those issues are less urgent. Thank you. Thank you. I thought the car books and I won to your point. So I fully remember that example. And aso it was exactly what you said. We could not too cold or legal means compelled that. Entity to function better. But what the corporation ultimately did was decide. And as we know, goodwill is not the same as public policy. So this is about creating public policy that can help have more responsible and use. This is just the first reading. So where going to get our heads what's all in here? But this is helpful as an overview and some initial background. Any other questions for MISTER Dermody before we leave this The car, but Suarez will always be with me in this job. Thank you for this staff report Dermody and more to come. I'm sure. Until it's over. Just The ordinance is laid over to NOVEMBER 13th for second reading public hearing. Item. 39 is a public hearing of ordinance. 24 dash. 32, many of the gas electric franchise is granted by the city to nor the states power company, Minnesota Corporation. All This item was before us last week for first we it's one. I didn't get much sleep last night. You know we did? I'm so sorry. We're still in. 38. We'll do that. And that will be 39 also. Well, so did the u n. Now. I. I skipped 38. Item. 38 is ordinance. 24 dash. 33 granting the application of Church of Saint Pasco, Babylon to rezone property at 4.70. Wiper Avenue north from h 2 residential district to arm to medium density, multiple family residential district and many chapter 60 of the legislative code pertaining to the zoning map. for first reading, is this rezoning that we're going to get a staff report out from Chris Hogg. Thank Time for being here. Turn it over to All This is where the proposed rezoning is to Southeast neighborhood. Just it for a long life. Haven't you? This neighborhood is mostly residential of the White Bear Avenue has greater mix of uses churches, schools commercial as well as a residential. And this the parcel of the owner is splitting the lot. So the rezoning would only affect the area south of the of the dotted records show that it's only ever been a vacant lot. That is used for and the applicant is applying for a rezoning from each to residential to r and to medium density. Multiple family residential. The proposed zoning district is our into 2 zoning district is intended for multiple family developments and the dimensional standards are flexible for a variety of configurations. The Planning Commission and District Council recommended approval of this rezoning. There is an associated conditional use permit that's been approved by the Planning Commission. The proposed development for the site is for a 53 unit, affordable apartment building. And this up is to allow 13 of those units have access to on-site services. The cfp conditional on the rezoning being approved. Of course, that there's no guarantee that this development will be. And with that, I'll take any questions. Thank you. Is how many questions for our staff today? Not see any we look forward to public to next week. And if we need more information, we notify you. Thank you. That just lay it over to the vet for 13 per second reading public hearing. And now a public hearing for item. 39 ordinance. 24 dash. 32, any of the gas electric franchise is granted by the city of 2 nor the states power company, a Minnesota Corporation. I want to thank community members for their patients around item. 39. So we're going to get a brief update on the staff report from MISTER Start. And then we'll go to the public hearing. So think about what you want to say for maybe the 3rd or 4th time. What w hear from MR. Stark. Ok? Go ahead, Thank you. Kuz PRESIDENT For us. Thank you. Just here with update on the proposed franchise agreement, amendments that are before you for public hearing today. As a reminder, the proposal would make a change to the current Excel gas electric franchise agreements to begin charging fees to residential customers in the month of APRIL and NOVEMBER. In addition to the months where fees are already charged, which is MAY through OCTOBER. For fees to go into effect in APRIL. And therefore the new additional revenues to be As mentioned, you would need to take action. This this month, in fact. We've gtten some feedback from members of the public already. And I from the public record and one of those correctly pointed that the Public Utilities Commission did lower the required time from 60 days to 30 days that a change to franchise agreements must wait before going into effect. However, that's not actually the main kind of limiting factor in this process. The time it will take excel to actually do the work behind the senes to get ready to implement the fees and APRIL are the are the bigger limiting factor so well that. Well, there was, in fact that change it doesn't really affect the timeline of action from from our perspective. Looking further into the fees and expected energy use and the months APRIL and NOVEMBER. We believe, though, that we underestimated the revenue that would be our previous. Communications. We previously estimated 1.5 million dollars in total revenue for APRIL and NOVEMBER combined. We now believe that total revenue would be more like 3.0, 2, 5 million dollars. The reason for this first of all, we previously estimated the average cost per household will be about $12 annually. And we now think that it would be more in the realm of 25 to $30 annually per household. So the reason tis happened, our previous estimates looked at the months closest to APRIL and NOVEMBER, which are MAY and OCTOBER to estimate expected energy use and revenue. But as we dug further into the details about how much energy is actually used in the month of NOVEMBER and APRIL, it's quite a bit more as it turns out that in MAY and OCTOBER. It makes sense if you think about it, that those months are a fair bit colder. Typically. And so you're going to see more cask use, especially for heating and so by higher energy use will also mean higher And also revenue. So we previously expected. So that is update. About this administration does not propose making any changes to what's before you for the time being. But look forward any questions you might have. All right. Thank you. Any other questions for MR. Starting up from head to the public hearing. Ok? Thank you, MR. Stark. Great thanks to our community who has been patient and waiting to give comment. So if you're interested in giving public comment on Looks to me like we have maybe like a dozen people here. So what we'll do is we'll take folks wanted a time as our first testifiers doing. Thank you to stand between the 2 microphone to don't need to adjust them or anything. They both pick up your sound. Let us know your name where you're coming from today. You don't have to give your address. But just, you know, we're coming from in Saint Paul or otherwise. And then you look 2 minutes to get your comment. And then once your comment is up, we ask that you just signed the clipboard so that we can record your comment in the public record that way as well. And with that, we welcome our first community member to testify. You've 2 minutes. Go ahead. Hello, my name is Mercedes Yarbrough known to many as MS. Mercedes, your kid's favorite teacher. I'm the community engagement to 5 birds. And today I am here in support of the franchise fees to increase funding for crucial community programs. As a descendant of the historic Rondo community. I want to if the fat emphasize that we're still waiting for meaningful reparations. The city continues to use Rondo's name in history inspiring visions for development, which is raising property values, increasing our taxes and in turn, pushes out of her own neighborhood. Meanwhile, our communities are still dealing with unsafe conditions from judge it city to underfunded education. True reparations could take many forms like protecting Rondo descendants from rising property taxes, offering free education or childcare in creating funding that supports programs lifting the community rather than displacement. As a mother of 4 boys recently had to choose between voting for increase in my property taxes to support early childhood education or keeping housing affordable for my family. It's heartbreaking to have to choose between a stable home and quality education for my kids. The lack of adequate funding is showing in our communities. And we're all feeling the impacts. I know firsthand that investing in our youth makes communities safer and more connected. My definition of safety is love and support in the current state of our communities reflects a lack of the love. I am here as living proof that love is power. Through my work and in urgent intergenerational programs like Rondo that. But I've seen the positive change that comes from simply investing time, energy and love even without funding relying solely on community support. But with the right funding, we could do so much more. I'm here to advocate for the resources we need to create safe, thriving communities for everyone, especially those who call around a home for generations. Mistress 80's preceded. If you don't mind spending in, would be great. Also, I think we have our timing. Flash cards ready. But if we need to go to that weekend. But thank you, Greg, for monitoring. Okay, cool. We look at of our next community member to get public comment. It will cost members and its maker Bashioum and Ward 6 happened. The pen Fillon area. So with what just happened in the election is abundantly clear that we cannot wait for help from federal government to deal with the climate emergency. We have to take care of each other. Anderson yourselves and we need the funds to do it. Saint Paul was the only city minutes. So that wasn't about to click franchise fees during the winter for decades. Now, we finally have an opportunity to change that and put those funds into a just equitable block by block program. They'll help people whether the plan and ultimately reduce people's utility bills. Can and will work throughout budgeting process to ensure that these fees go to climate action, specifically park home program. And I hope everyone makes it a top priority. Additionally, I'll add that language can be added ordinances to dedicate their funds for the 3rd is his in serve foreign earnings and also just suggest that if the study somehow has trouble spending, the revenue brought in from these fees on climate action despite having mansion, they could partner with community action. They won't Long track record of weatherizing homes. Thank you very much and hope we can be as part of this ordinance. Thanks fr your public comment and for being please don't forget to sign in. Thanks to of our next testifier. Go ahead. Don't pass a comer as in in a Saint Paul Council, president members of the council, thank you for your ongoing attention to equity and economic stability and climate. Thank you for listening to your constituents about these compelling concerns for them. The ordinance at hand is a small step. Given the global scale of the crime crisis. And it's an imperfect step because there are administrative details to resolve. It is crucial. An important step. It's a necessary step. The franchise fee is important tool that cities have and it should be used wisely. Saint Paul will use this increase revenue to deepen our commitment and our work in climate justice. Given the recent developments that we've been acknowledging over and over it, even in this meeting, it will be the responsibility of cities to step up. And make bold climate action. I am confident that this body rise to that occasion. So please pass this ordinance and then we can do much more. We can do more and we can do better. But this ordinance is critical for launching that work. Thank you. Thank you so much for public comment in for being here. Don't forget to sign it. All right. Welcome upper next community members come on appeal. 2 minutes. PRESIDENT And council people. My name is Mary Pat Dunlap. I'm a lifelong resident of this city. Which my life, as you can tell, I currently reside in Ward 4. And I want to ask each and every one of you to vote for this for this ordinance. 24 32 amending the gas and Electric franchise. This is really only the first step. I know. From my discussions with with some of you and reported discussions with with all of you. I think you have questions but it's. Would be done with this money. But The key factor to remember is that. All those debates about how to spend the money are. That's a moot point. If you don't have the money so that the job I feel like is to. Is to pass this ordinance and get this revenue flowing. All those discussions about how to spend it or what to do with it can come later. But if you don't pass this ordinance now, don't have access to the money. So thank you for your service and for all that you do. And Ihope you pass a certain thank you. Thank you so much for your comment in for being here. And thanks for sending in. All right. Welcome its community member. You have 2 minutes. Go ahead. Hello, County Council PRESIDENT Jalali Council PRESIDENT Vice PRESIDENT Kim and the rest Saint Paul City Council. I'm Jeanne comes credit. Proud resident of Dayton's bluff in Ward 7. I'm also a member of Saint Paul, known for many years is safe. All 3.50. You MAY know that our group worked long and hard at this year's legislative session to successfully free up franchise fees that had previously been restricted in the city of Saint Paul. The next step to getting access to these funds is for you to approve ordinance. 24 32 amending the gas and Electric franchise. I urge you to pass quickly and with no changes. This ordinance failure to do so will prevent us from being able to collect any any money from the new franchise fees next year. Do we wait another year? It's clearly evident the word we now need to factor into all our climate related discussions is urgency. We see repeatedly the current impact of the climate crisis on weather patterns, heat drought, super storms, flooding and on and on. We no longer have time to wait for year. We must move ahead on the city's program of weatherization and electrification for low-income in energy burden to homes. Please believe me. When I use the word urgent and approve this ordinance. Now, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate being here. Appreciate sending in. Hello and welcome. Your next committee member in la 2 minutes. Go ahead. Thank Grant Stephens and also with, know, say Paul, have east side Ward Ward, 7. I wasn't going speak, but I wanted to get up and cheer when rest gave report and said this is actually going to raise a lot more money, then we thought it would in the franchise fee. It MAY have been a out caution that you were giving. But I was thinking we're nowhere near the amount of money that we need to transform a Saint Paul from where w are now, 2 off of fossil gas by 2050. So I think this is going to require some out of the box thinking, what do we do with money that we don't yet know how to spend it? We're going to have to create a funding earmarked funds that canopy put in the general fund to be spent when we're ready to spend it. I think that's possible to do. You might be like me and being feeling somewhat terrified today about what's going to happen nationally and what kind of funds are going to be available to us nationally? I don't know. I hope that we can continue on with the Biden commitments, but I don't know if that's true. In any case we're going to have to act as a city as if we want to lead on this. Our group has met with every single one of the members of the council. And I think every single one of you has said that climate is a top priority. We know that it's the mayor's number 4 priority. So what does a priority look like? I think it looks like we have to fund things even if it means thinking outside the box about how to take the money and put it away until we're ready to spend that 10 years from now. But a year or 2 from now. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. on go fund and I live in Ward 3 and I'm a leader with I say. And I'm devastated as I began begin to absorb the reality of last night's election results. I'm also just very grateful to be here today with you looking at ways say pa lights can care for each other and be a beacon of hope in just climate future. I worked the city Council elections last year because we need a strong leadership on climate. And I believe this group of council members can lead us to make a Saint Paul, not just as a model on climate for the Midwest, but for the country. As I say, and we knew one of the most important things we could do is to position ourselves for brighter climate future was to change the longstanding state statute. From 1979 which prohibited Saint Paul from collecting franchise fees year round. We worked with City Council city of Saint Paul staff, State Majority leader Erin Murphy Saint Paul during the 2024 legislative session to change this law and allow us to collect new revenue for funding climate action. We need this new revenue to be included in the 2025 budget. Isaiah is committed to bring a supportive role to ensure this new revenue is used to fund the city's climate and equity goals. As stated in our climate action and resiliency plan. Now the first step is to pass this ordinance so we don't lose out on this new revenue in 2025. And beyond. That's why we support a yes vote next week in support of ordinance. 24 32 amending the Gas and Electric franchise. Thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate you being here and make sure you sign in. If I could just get a show of hands who still waiting to testify. I can't tell who's just like standing versus estimate. Okay. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 people that want to ok so like half a dozen books. Okay. Just want to make sure it's it's finding you're standing tere. I just want to make sure that everyone has had their equal opportunity. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Chelsea, the arm and and I live on the east side by Lake Phalen and I am the for the climate organizer for to see Paul. When we first started organizing for climate as fall 3.57 years ago. And we met with leaders in the city and wanted to talk about climate action. One of the most common responses we got was great idea. How do you plan to pay for that? So when the city council is inaugurated, we've been meeting with all of you talking about policy ideas for climate funding idea, which includes revenue from these franchise fees. We really appreciate that. Some of you are working really hard to find a way to guarantee that the revenue from the franchise fees will go toward climate action. And we we do that. And many ways You know, we work Council resolutions. Master plans, climate action, resilience, plan. And now the 2025 budget where we try to get commitments from our city leaders about how they're going to. Climate. And in all of these cases, in my experience, there's no guarantee that these intentions will be followed through on other than the hard work of organizing and holding city leaders accountable to the commitments that they make. And I think a lot of some of you are at the groundbreaking for the Heights. You thermal system. So you know that we worked really hard at holding city leaders accountable to the commitments that you all make because your great leaders and we support you and we want you to succeed. And the vision you have for climate action in Saint Paul. So thank you for trying to guarantee that this will go to climate action. Even if you can't do that, we're committed to continuing to organize, to make sure that these funds go toward climate action. And we don't want that to reason for any delay on these funds. This the power, the climate staffing up our home commitment to that is proposing budget begins. The complicated in crucial process of weatherizing Saint Paul's more than 40,000 under siege as your little over time. So if you don't mind just getting you finish your sentence because it wasn't like the Oscars just represented to them or go 40,000 homes to weatherize in Saint Paul. We need to start and we want to start next year. So please pass this ordinance. Thanks, Chelsea. All right. Make sure you sign All right. That annex community member Europe. Thanks for being here. Go aead, ok? Hello. My name is Yvonne can where I live in Ward 5 and I'm a leader with Isaiah. I was part of many who really the safest city council elections last year because we believed this council. This group of council members would lead Saint Paul in being the model on climate justice. That same palm. The it's. To fulfill that vision. We need the revenue. The franchise agreement brings to fund the climate equity goals stated in our climate action and resilience plan. We don't have the luxury of time o climate which is why I'm asking this council to vote. Yes, next week in support of ordinance. 34. 24 32 amending the gas and Electric franchise has is thank you. Thanks so much. Make sure these I didn't appreciate being here. All right. Welcome up. Our next community member to testify ahead. Thank you. My name is Christine Danielson. I live in where 3. And I'm a leader with Isaiah. I care about climate because I have children that I love with my whole heart. I have them and taking reasonable precautions to protect them from harm. They young adults now. But that does not change my instincts to choose to take reasonable part. 2. Reasonable precautions to protect them. The children that they might choose to have some day. You're dealing dear children. And the ones that you MAY have in the future and every single child in our community. Now and then generations to come. From the harms of climate change. My passion for climate justice is why I spent the whole year on the Saint Paul City Council election last year. We need a climate breakthrough that w struggle to get with the last city Council. Our country so desperately needs leadership on climate right now. And this council can do that. Because we can do hard things. In the months remaining in the budget season, we will play a supporting role and having this new revenue be used to fund the city's climate and equity goals as stated in the climate action and resilience plan. We've already done the first hard staff of changing state statute that prohibited Saint Paul from collecting the franchise fee year-round. Asking you to take the next step and pass ordinance. 24 32 amending the gas and Electric franchise fees. So we can capture this nw revenue. 2 and climate protections. Yes. Appreciate you being here and good sign All right. Welcome our next speaker. Go ahead. Hello, thank you very much. My name is Christian. Dawkins paying everybody cause numerous. I live in Ward 7 on Payne Avenue te side. And I remember from dose and that working on the same project is cannot of assessment. thing is that where emergence? we've had the hottest years year after year, the hottest year recorded all the storms and wildfires and floods and so forth. Of the places they could happen here. You have the opportunity start addressing this crisis now next week. Please don't do funding. This program is just for the first baby steps. Senator needed to get the porous families and the most wretched houses. With some utility bills to start immediately this winter and getting programs, their houses 6, 7, ready for the clean transition better as you. Going now this much funding as you can scrape up. Is what we need to do is a win win, win, win for the most energy burden. Families certainly for I fact, all of Saint Paul residents also. For the survival of planet civilization. And force a positive decision itself to be first city in the country to meet its 2050 goals. So that's what I would like to see. And so please vote yes. Thank you so much. be here and comment. Make sure that you sign in anyone is caught. A 21 is given comment but not signed in. I would like you like to respectfully ask you to do that. Thank you. All right. Next committee member will come on up. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT And members does the overhead work. If you want to show something, you usually can just put it right down by with Mike Funds are and activates right there. I can see Okay. I was going talk with Russ about disparities over that claims that I made and he appreciates the straighten that out. If you can see this bill, this is my. SEPTEMBER bill. It's a chargeable month. That is it's summertime month. Summertime. Bill soul, if you can see my safeties or $7 and $0.55. That is a 27 and a half percent of the gross sales of the natural gas. But don't let that 27 and a half percent scare you because in the winter months, he goes to 0. So the average over 12 months, which will show you next is, as I said in my testimony, 6% currently exactly what same for a city of Minneapolis is charged exactly what St Paul's check 6% on average over the course of the entire year. You have to take 12 months of these bills at a mall just did it. One letter before a switch up off the screen. I just want to show it $7.55 on the safety. That's just about the largest item on the bill. $9. Is your actual bill for that excel charges? Just pure flat fee. Every month whether he used gas or not paid 9 doubt. So you've got a hefty don't don't misunderstand what this says. Yes, the though state law got castle. But you're making up for that. I got to hand it to the council prior to all this 15, 16 years ago. They've gt ordinance, Scott, a franchise fee that's still competitive with Minneapolis. How does that happen? There's been new amendments for 16 years and it still works. I'm telling you were charged as residents already. Competitive number. I don't fault these people for wanting to get some money to handle what is discussed. Sure. Use or you're past your time on the Your closing thought is it sounds like don't. Want to support it or what would you like? What I'd like you to do and as as I said in my chest, looking at? Minneapolis for the commercial and they also charged for that. They charged, you know, big money for to those people and they're making 10 million this year from that. So I just I just so, you to be fair to other folks, I think where I get the point that you want us to look at Minneapolis and include that our thoughts. But you're right. Your time. Alright, okay. Thank you. Thank you for being here in person every to make sure that you sign it. All right. And who else is left? Looks like we've got a couple folks who still want to testify next person. You're welcome to come on Everyone. My name is Matt Gallo. I live in Ward 4 and I am brand new resident PRESIDENT Of Saint Paul. I'm here to ask this U.S. Team the body to pass ordinance. 24 32 in support of amending the franchise fees to fund climate action. I think a lot of folks already spoken at length over all of the benefits for that. So I'm not keep my time here pretty shortly. I will just say that as someone who did recently moved here, I the first time I've really heard about simple the political landscape was when just a couple years ago became the first major city in American history. It's happened all City Council. You guys are trailblazers in a lot of fairways. I ask you to keep that going with funding this climate action. I'm not really sure if you guys follow politics much. But climate action for the next 4 years. Not going to be great. We really need you guys now to take even just these first steps to help us deal with the climate crisis, making our communities sustainable for. Even that. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. And if you just move to our for I am your COUNCILMAN. So nice to meet you. Look, I'm a simple. Thank you. All right. We will come up. Our loks like our last committee member up. We have another one. So if you are waiting to testify if you could let us know, ok, great. Just keep an eye out for you. But it's your time now to minutes. Go ahead. Awesome. Thank you. My name is Thank you. Council. I live in Ward 4. Lived here about a decade ever since graduated in that time. My energy bills have pretty much doubled. My salary is not. But paying 20 to $30 a year is nothing. If it means the city is taking meaningful action on climate. In fact, I would go even further and sy that that 20 to $30 feels like an active investment back in me and my neighbors. It feels like te return on investment that I will get from meaningful climate action. If these funds are used to weatherize homes, if these funds are used to reduce energy burden on the cow households. That are currently facing some of the highest costs. It's just a no-brainer. It really 20 to $30. Turned around and invested in the climate action will basically make our community so much healthier. He's a really great start on the action that we're going to which is going to be even bigger. So it definitely urge all to take action. Thanks so much for having us all here. Thank you so much for your comments and make sure you sign and appreciate being here. Good afternoon. Members of the City Council. I think a slightly different point of view. As you MAY imagine. My name is Greg Copeland. I live right off up an avenue. Cook 6, 1, to is cook. I would favor no tax on home heating. That's the current state policy. We had a special policy that the mayor to cope and I just want make sure I'm just me. I'm are you speaking about the franchise fee ordinance. So we're so this time speaking about my electric bill. Yeah, my gas bill. Which has a very state franchise be already embedded in it. Paul, excuse me in Saint Paul. We don't have the ability to charge you know, we do. That's what the ordinance is about. So all right. Just want to make sre you understand what the I understand a person like this. I pay the bill. Go ahead and we do have it. They're with Iran against a young lady. sponsored this bill, if the legislature and during our debate, she said it was only going to $5. She said that's what the city told her 5 Bucks. My bill last month, $15 and change on franchise fees. Policy that we had worked really well for 45 years to protect the financial interests of people that buy electricity or gas to heat their homes. Why would we want to do this to our citizens at large? Te city already collects for all of you that want to spend money. The city already collects 27 million dollars change. If you want to do something spend so that use your power with these people to spend the Come here and start charging all of us airs more than one When there's 27 million dollars sitting on the fn. You know, it's the 4th largest pot of money in the city budget. Make these people live up to it. And I don't remember anybody on this council campaign to raise electric bills You know, there was one testifier over at the House and is sitting right here. Sustainability officer. Proposal cost millions of dollars over time. And when I hear the word baby steps what are your testifiers? Well, yeah, the bill repealed 6 months of us already. All right, Jessica, starting that's about year starting off with too that your baby step that we 4 more months of my so mistake underestimating the cost by twice. I've asked you respectfully to with you and you are trying debate with, know, I was making sure that you I was enforcing the rules. The hearing which is now come too close for you. Thank you. All Make sure you sign. Well, no, thank thank you for your time. All right. Us watch what wear million sure that we're just that. Basic protection. So I've asked you nicely twice now and the 3rd will be secure. All right. You cannot disrupt the meeting anymore. Thank Well, I'm glad you know. All right. So that brings us leave in a Republican. Is anyone else who wants to testify to this matter? Okay. Seeing none motion from his Bowie to close public hearing on here Aye, Any opposed. 7 favor nor opposed the public hearing is closed in. The ordinance is laid over to NOVEMBER 13th for final adoption. Uk. typically we vote the next week which could be interconnected. So since the communities gathered here today, if members would like to speak to this item, I glad to take comments. Now. I see sneaker and then anyone else who wants to speak. Let me know. Second second pitch thanks so much I actually just had a couple questions for MISTER Stark. I want let folks testify for so if he's willing to come back up, I am. really appreciate coming out today. I think what's clear is that all of us know that the city needs more revenue and were created was to find needs invest more in climate. I don't think there's disagreement about that. But I I want to thank MR. Purdy who I'm I don't know if he was the one who alerted us to the fact that this would bring in much more revenue than we were expecting and also cost much more than we were anticipating. But that was certainly information that was raised in the letter he sent to us. So I appreciate that from from him. And he raised 2 questions that I think I really want to understand the answer to because trying to raise money in a way that is equitable and also in a way that disincentivize is pollution on the biggest polluters. And in my mind, those are those are commercial users rather than residential users. So I'm curious about 2 points he made, but he didn't have time to carefully here because of the 2 minutes. But he did share in a letter to us. One of them was the contention that we are charging significantly more than other jurisdictions on all the other months to make up for the fact that we had that restriction on winter months curious aout that guy. That's new information to me. He also mentioned the opportunity Ray is twice as much revenue as we were expecting. Originally 2.4 million a year b replacing a cap that we have in place on the High Bridge station, which currently we have a capital $150,000 in revenue. But if we lifted that happened, actually charged it based on the amount natural gas, it's burning could bring in 2.4 million dollars and that would affect commercial users, not just residential users. So again, not that questioning the goal here, but trying to figure out of the different options that we have available to us and wondering which ones we have explored so MR. Stark, can you speak a bit too? Both of those questions, if you if you have information now and if not, we can follow up. Council, PRESIDENT Council heard Yes. So. Couple of things there. One we've been gaining information about sort of average cost to homeowners currently. MR. Pretty has pointed out is Bill where he showed $.50. Pfieffer particular month, MR. Copeland mention $15 the particular month. We believe that the average tat think Paul residents are spending annually for their residential franchise fees. Today is about $75 over the course of the year. So it's 6 months worth of fees that are averaging about $12 to do the quick math. There in Minneapolis. The average resident today. Based on the information I have available spends about $125 annually on their residential franchise fees. So it's not correct that we've been sort of keeping up. It is true. I think that our fee structure was originally designed. Understanding that we didn't charge fees in the winter. I wasn't around when that structure was put in place. I don't think anyone stand in the city who was involved at the time. It's still around to answer the question of what the intent was behind that precise few structure. We are thinking about. Various things in our franchise agreements that might make sense to change when we actually need to renew those agreements, which is coming up in AUGUST of 2026. For the purposes of this particular proposal, we wanted to make proposed amendment really simple because there's lots of questions and ripple effects to the questions that you're asking the example with with the Excel Highbridge plant because it's Plant that produces electricity as part of the electric grid. It brings natural gas to do that. Confident to say it is by far the biggest user of natural gas in the city of Saint Paul but if we were to charge, excel more fees on the gas that they use at their electric plant, they would pass those costs on to the electric rate payers as opposed to the gas rate payers. And so it would just be a different way of spreading the same cross over the same over, assess residents and and customers and Saint Paul are for the long answer. But that's that. That's that that's helpful. Just as a quick follow-up. And if you could send the written information on the rates, comparisons that you mention, Mr, struck, that would be helpful. I think the point of the high bridge was plant was not that they wouldn't still end up trickling down to consumers. But that commercial consumers would be implicated in that as well rather than just the increasing and residential consumers. Is that that accurate to say? And i know that's not something we can do 2026 that that is accurate to say. So that's one of many things that we can and we'll look at what we are looking at. The full range of options for the agreements will be forward. Any follow-up so? I see the line now is bp. Kim, anyone else want to get is just them is. But we can just go ahead just a fall to that question. So in the dispersing the costume gas to elect repairs, you know what? On average that would look like them like, how does that compare to the cost or asking for the franchise fee? So in the scenario of removing the cap for the high bridge plant, I have not done that math. At can. We can look into just peace. The curiosity acquittal, revenue. Is just. Thank you, council PRESIDENT. I want to know that meeting and all of you will be here next week. I just want to thank everyone that came to voice their opinions today at the public hearing. That was a very great to to hear. And I just want to say that, you know, of course, I will be will be supporting this. And I appreciate rest, MR. Stark, your. Update on the what you found with the uses throughout the year and how much revenue we might be. MAY looking at for next year. I'm really looking forward to also the ability to renegotiate the franchise fee agreement in the future. This is kind of a first step in updating this ordinance. I also heard from the communities today their desire to 2. Ensure that we can spend these funds on climate action. And I think that, you know, this is the franchise fee. It's unfortunately not like our federal gas tax where that goes directly to our infrastructure. But I do think that. This type of funding, which is going to be an ongoing funding that we'll be able to count on every year. Ideally is used towards that type of for that type of use, something that we know is an ongoing need some things, especially on the climate infrastructure. So I appreciate you all for putting that today. Thanks. The line I have now is buoyed back to Ken and then Johnson. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT Also want to say thank you for the questions I was asking for. Thank you for everyone testified and shared. Opinion whether they're advocating or not for This item and what's been said today, we're not making a decision where, you know, learning listening and asking questions. I do have some questions not to be answered right now, bt I'll be following a particularly around how many rate payers. So we have in the city of Saint Paul and also what are those households that are whether they're in distress, their energy burden, financially burden. So we can identify entire scope throughout the city. Of what? What is the What is the approach particularly around how we're going use these dollars? I am in support of us having a really strong smart climate action plan and also for someone who's been a community organizer for many years. I don't see environmental justice separate from racial justice. And we heard that earlier today. I think it's really important that we have equity and especially in that current climate that we're going to be walking into and that's 4 years. It's going to take the city to be strong and prioritize climate action and making sre that we're not doing it with a colorblind lens, particularly around who's most affected by it. So I'm here to support my colleagues with this Also want to make sure that we just have a really clear picture how we're going to invest these dollars back into the community. Thanks MISS Billy for those comments and have a question from MR. Stark or is that great? Alright, hard appreciated. I have in my name is Kim them as Johnson. Anyone else wants to get my let me know. Go ahead. MISS Can Councilmember remarks. It's a perfect preamble to my remark. There's been a lot of conversation internally around. How do we assure political accountability, these funds will go towards climate resiliency right now. The way the ordinance is written, it just goes into general fund just like all of our other franchise fees. S internally, my office is leading and working on ensuring that we have language my office will prepared to present next week. We'll be hopefully legistar ready. That sure is and has sets guardrails to ensure that the dollar's actually do go towards climate resiliency. And we are specific and that ask. And so I think given the political and actual climate, we need to have more local assurances more than just voting. Yes on revenue. We need to have a local assurances that's written into the ordinance that guarantees that these dollars course towards climate resiliency. And my office is preparing and working on that and looking for during the support of my colleagues. Thank you. MISS Going next to ms Johnston. Go ahead. I apreciate the comments and I appreciate all the time that have taken. I know some of our public comment today. I've just from several of my constituents about this. I think that it's really important that our ordinance language also reflect its intent. And so I look forward to seeing that language Council vice PRESIDENT Kamala part because I think it's really important that clear about the expectations. 2 our committee members and we asked just an everyday constituents, especially our community leaders and people and my community that are going to be wanting to know. That are gonna want to know exactly what happens to these have been a clear intent, I think is important. And so I look forward to being able to see that finalizing which but as of right now, I think it's also really important that as policymakers we. We say that increasing these funds within 10 they use for their use for climate action work that to, you know, even hearing from MR. MISTER, Start today. Wright years later, decades later, sometimes people transition sometime city staff are no longer there. I think it's really important to be able to reference back in time to know exactly what the intent was when that decision was made. And at some the stuff that I think it sometimes lost I transition. Just locally here in government work overall. So I'm actually looking forward to being able to be specific about that and would join colleagues and encouraging them to make sure that we're vocalizing our attention right now for me. I think if we're doing things related to anything related to the franchise fee ordinance, as we heard today. And even just as we continue to talk about our climate action work, we need to have funding streams. That extent will be on our time even here as the council. So I actually think it's really important that we are pretty vocal on the fact that we need to put towards climate action work. I see MISS And that's end of the line. So far we can take some are going to see a council PRESIDENT. I want to say a big thanks to everybody who came and testified today have a couple of questions rest and think you MAY be you. And then chief budget officer who is also serving as interim council director, j. Can probably tag team. So one of to one of Testifiers brought up. A point about you, mark and funds for climate justice where and my understanding is that something that we cannot with the revenue from franchise fees? Correct? Because it would just be going right into the general fund. Council, PRESIDENT Council member, this is really question for finance team a night at probably not the right person to It definitely the case today that currently the revenues race by the franchise agreements go directly into the general fund. My understanding is that you all put in the course of budget. A special fund to dedicate the new revenue too. Even wat I just said should be double checked with finance staff and asked them directly. In the can you clarify for us? Typically what happens with any dollars that we have in the general fund? I don't get used at the end of the year. Bring this up because they can you basically saved the dollars for a certain number of and tap into that? My understanding is that something that we cannot do? Another great question for finance. Okay. You have response to that at all? If not, I'm happy to follow up, but I just want to say that something really important for me to be able to have. Thank you. Council prison Councilor Yang. So under the state law regarding franchise fees, uses or And so it's really up to the jurisdictions, you know, municipalities, how those are used during the budgetary There's restriction at the state law level. So really MR. Stewart's point it's up to, you know, the municipality to determine use. Okay. Thank you all. Definitely send make those 2 questions in the email to the ball for you and then also be sure to send over to our office of Financial Services. But that there's just a couple of thoughts that I have in mind that I wanted to share for staff. I think that this is a the next couple of Weeks will be pivotal in us. And the council mayor's office or icu and Arctic Committee leaders who have who are staunch advocates for climate justice to really be watching together on on how and how he would want to use these dollars. And I say that because when I think about budgeting want to one, it's really important for us to to understand how we are going to be spending dollars before we start collecting. I see that because any time that we have a department coming in front of us asking for money. Our question is how are you planning on using these dollars? What is the breakdown for Look like in? It's about transparency. It's about making sure that folks like us, you know, course, and the table making decisions can make informed decisions. And so to me that that information is really important to have. And I just wanted to released speak to it. A huge opportunity for continued collaboration and partnership on this. And that I for me, it's really important that and you dollars collected from the Frank franchise fees, whether it's APRIL NOVEMBER, or if if if it's even more months that we add into that, that all of those dollars to go back into climate justice. Word. All right. Any other questions or discussion before we move I want to thank the community members who are here today. I really appreciate your dedication to keeping us focused on the climate - emergency. Yesterday's outcome is also very sobering reminder of resources we used to count on and really consider a boon to this work. The inflation Reduction Act, all this federal action right to try to usher in a Green New Deal. We need to match and keep up those efforts lcally as we work ensure resiliency in our community and sustainability. I also support dedicating these funds within that public purpose of climate action sustainability. I think that's really important. And I think within that definition, if you view climate action, sustainability is fundamentally about environmental justice and impacting black brown and indigenous communities who are disproportionately negatively affected by systemic racism by the health outcomes that come from that by poor land use decisions. All of the transportation deficits, all of those things right? I think that we have to. Mean, both the I think I somebody talking about not color blind when it comes to climate equity work. I think that's really important as a lens. I proud of how our city's official charged to us in the climate action plan protests and calls us to use that lens. And I think this is an opportunity to exemplify that as we finalize not just this ordinance, the decisions ahead in the budget. So especially thanks to all of you. Just bring back some things I'm hearing from members agree with and also from you. Thanks to all of you making the time to be here today. Sometimes it's nice to wake up and do a good thing. Even if the day before. That wasn't the so much appreciated. Item 40's resolution, public hearing 24 dash 2.63 authorizing public works to request 973,000 in score grant funds from Ramsey County to support the curbside recycling program and setting the 2025 City Recycling service space. ok, just want a preview on these public hearings. Really hope I'm saying this right items number 40 41 can move forward today but items. 42 43, we would need over to adopt as part of the budget. And I'm seeing Sean is not being and not crying. So I got that right? Thanks, director. Okay. With that, this is a public hearing on item number 40. Is there anyone here to testify to this item? Item number 40. Seeing none a motion from his to close public hearing and approved on there say Aye, any opposed. 70 favorite. No one opposed to public hearings close in the resolution is adopted. I know 41 is resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.64. Setting the solid waste service fee for 2025. is a public hearing on item number. 41, is there anyone here to speak to this item item? 41. All right. Welcome back, sir. It's good to be with you. It's good to have overall, students, fees today. I really had a question actually for your finance staff, I currently we're paying what 61 down $0.16 a year on the for the smaller car. Customers. county environmental charge. You're indicating a $42 and change. fyi, that you've it worked out with the county. Is that right? And I'm wondering. What does that do to the? Fee? That's on the bill. A second to be in addition to it, is that a substitution surrett? I'm happy to see if our staff public works can follow up. And I'm looking to see if we actually have staff and public works. Who can help you? Okay. So if you'd like they can just take some time and explain it to you. Is there anything else you want to do is put your public? Well, depending on answer the question, I would say agree with your proposal think you should work harder. Okay. So I'd like to come back the answer. If that's possible. When do we get your question answer this quickly as possible and all good anyone else wants to come. And yah, so I think what we'll do we'll take that as you know, a comment from you that you'd like to see these rates improve for you will have public, which your question. Thank you for your comment. And to see if anyone else wants to talk of the This is a public hearing for item number. 41, anyone else here to testify? I thought you were going to ask them your question offline or asked that question. change the want to be still for those forced $42 here place $61 change All right. So this has to do understand the question. You might want to come up and just answer for the record. Thank you. Thank you, for being here. We appreciate it. Works garbage and recycling program. Minutes later, they're 2 items the pesident is bringing up. So there are the rates, which are the quarterly fees that residents pay for the services provided. And then there's the annual service fee. What's before you today is the annual service fee and tat covers programming costs. Staff carts. Things like tat. The rates are a separate issue. And the current annual service in 2024. Was $33. The increases to 40 to 86. understand that share. So, sir, we're technically, hey, I'm going to help you, but I just I'm trying to run this correctly and procedurally, we're still part of the public hearing. Do you mind just finishing your public comment as it was? And then whenever we're out of the we got only I've got my waste management here. They charge you a county environmental charge. From reading your documentation. It wasn't clear to me that the county was agreeing to forgo the collection of their environmental charge in favor of the city's 42. A dollar and change charge. And I've got to believe with all the fiscal staff brain power here from the public works department that they negotiated this very item and they can answer the question. I mean, after all this apparently going to be our only chance of citizens, too, find out whether we're going to additional bill or whether you're actually working to save us some money. Anybody, you this is public here until your comment has been noted. Thank you and make sure you sent all right. People here to testify for item number 40, once. Seeing none. A motion from his yang to close public hearing and approved on favor say any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed public hearing closed in the resolution is adopted item for the you know what? I'm so sorry. I didn't realize MISS Yang. Did you say that you actually of questions? First Okay. Okay. So can we back up in just let's do that. Thanks for work into this with me, everyone has leave that country in his questions for you before we vote. Thanks. Sarah, I heard what you said earlier slide year. I just want to make sure play it correctly. So this is different from And recently when Director Kershaw King presented about brought up issues around just like the distribution of the difference in costs for each for, like different been sizes. So this is different from that right? Yep. This is ok, it will be the rates will be for you NOVEMBER. 20th. Great. That's helpful to You just give us a rundown again. Like really quickly, just refresh on what is basically what is the reasoning behind like the difference in cost for what's in front of a study? That's PRESIDENT Considering, of course, the biggest question is the operations that will be doing 10% of city collections. So $9 approximately increase covers on a tv staff to write services, customer service billing collection. We our purchasing of public works facility. So it's the loan payments for that. The equipment, the 5 Packers that we purchased earlier this year. It's a cover. Those operational costs and also some increased funding for illegal dumping and litter cleanups. Okay, great. Thank you. I'm supportive of this item. So I mean, seems Billy and then we'll go to a motion have his. But thank you, Council PRESIDENT Starr. I have a question particularly around a service fee. I'm so glad you clarify that. I thought this was about the rate at and know that was gonna come in NOVEMBER. But I wanted to touch on the 10% of the city services. I do recall that we're piloting are going to be doing a doing operations for 10% of the trash hauling. So. But is this rate is for everyone. I just great for that 10% people who we will be providing that service to That's a good question. It's for everybody in the organized collection programs for all want a 4 unit Properties are dwelling unit properties. And then my quick follow-up to we have numbers how much that's going to actually generate. And how much it costs. For the collection service us or for service in there. So, yeah, there's it's always you know, if you think of the of the rates and then you have the fees so that yes and echoes of her reading and then we do based on that proposed rates for 2 rate increases when in JANUARY when in APRIL. And first one is under the existing contract the APRIL is under the new contract. APRIL one is in the city will begin hauling and there will be revenue from that. That will help from the program and cover some of the employee expenses, etc. What do we have? Numbers? Next year. Yes, we do. And we can share them ater 8. I don't have the number And you're the questions from his hospice. Motion from a snake or to close public hearing on say, I motion from Ms Johnson to approve of their set. Any a plus 7 in favor nor opposed resolution is stopped item. 42 is resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.70. Setting the 2025 sanitary sewer and storm sewer rates. All right. And as reminder for 42 43, we'll take public hearing, but then will ladies over for final adoption with the budget later this year. This public hearing on item number. 42 is a new one here to speak to this item. I'm here for for other sort of question. I went up and pay bills so I didn't get it up. My tax bill before this meeting, sir MR. Copeland, if you want pay your bill or address that are already paying my and that's what I was telling him. What are you here to talk about? Sanitary sewer and storm rates? Well, if you let me get past my first sentence, I could give you the answer to that. I just couldn't tell from what you're saying. Go ahead. You 2 minutes, ok? How about that work on my communication skills. In your backup material on the publicly published agenda item here. You indicate that twice that there's going to be a 10% general across the board increase and the storm water charge. for me that looks like about a $12 bill. In addition to the $119 and $0.71 aday if the city today. I just wondering what you're going to do with all that additional money, that it should go up 10%. I mean, you're really raising our taxes this year. 8% and change right? So why are we why are we having to pay? What are we going to get that we're not getting now terms of storm water. Sure. Service for 10% more. Just a question. It has the answer. It's not a back and forth, sir. All right. Thank you for coming. This is a public hearing on item 42, is anyone else here to speak to this item item? 42. Thank you, John, for again and appreciate the The storms. He's gentleman correct. It's going up to 10%. Had been 3 and a half percent. That would be That would be your senator or a sewer last year. The storms what moved up to 6% 10%. Now. And there's I'm sure a good reason Probably several. I would just like to say that on the storms on this storm, sewer charges. I tried to escape from charges by behavior might but adjusting my behavior. I've been after the city and it had to allow for rain garden credit. My house has giant rain garden in the backyard spring. We had a lot of rain, not one drop. Not one court went into the onto the sidewalk and into the sees thing. And I wanted to ask the city to give rain garden credit to me. They deny at and they did 90 the credit and I can't escape from these charges try to do the long. And the short of it is the policy for the storm. Will be before you next yar. But you're passing the rate increase today. Soul. The policy is going to be presented to it'll be the same policy as it was the year before and the year before that and year before that there won't be any rain got credits. So I'm just here to say you should have the policy before you set the rates so that you can see what you're going to give. Thus it Thank you. Thank you for your comment. And the tree said. Any other one this public hearing on item number. 42, there anyone else to speak to the side? Okay. Seeing none. The motion from Israeli to close public hearing in Lee the matter over until DECEMBER 4th on Any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed the public hearing is closed in the resolutions laid over to DECEMBER 4th. Item 43 is resolution public hearing. 24 dash to 59 establishing the water charges for 2025. This is a public hearing on item number. 43, is there anyone here to speak to this item? So I went to the public hearing that the folks who are on this body that serve also on the water authority. And I commented that, okay, looking for a percent more and change on our water bills. And there was some discussion and I have bring it up about that. The lead pipe problem. And of course, this week, wow, got this nice letter from the city. Tell me all about it. It's basically all same stuff that you've told before. The one thing it doesn't Is present a reasonable schedule for solving the problem. I mean, we had all these people here a little bit ago. Talk about what we can do with our franchise You folks are collecting a thin dollars and change a year. Right away maintenance bills would take some of that money and spend it on fix a I. These war services that are putting lead in our children's We've got people here talk about what we need to do for the children given us all children or otherwise. Water absent, let. That ought to be a priority. That be a priority. And, you know, you've got a lot of money to work with here. You MAY be the city doesn't have to solve all the problems that actually have funding from the state and other entities, the federal government still is going to be sending money to say, Paul, I suspect. It just seems like you guys are a lot of new phase cost us. A lot of money on here in sticks. You know where we all live the priority items like getting lead We can take 10 years to do that. I mean, I want to give old joke credit. Said, and we've got to get that in 10 years. But then he oh, takes 3 years to get that, that your students will go on. You, sir. Thank Get it while you can. All right. In favor of using our federal money to reduce our costs in Saint Paul. Okay. Thank Appreciate public comment. All right. This is a public hearing and item number. 43 is or anyone else here to speak to this item. And 43. Looking around seeing none. A motion from MISS Kim to close public hearing in Lee, the matter over up, sweet. Let's go is toast. Sorry. Thank you, council PRESIDENT. I just want to speak to the public common. The last item. Especially as as a professional engineer myself. I just want to make sure it's clear that the water that comes out of the water treatment plant from Saint Paul Regional Water Services into the distribution system is free of lead. I'm gonna take that is motion from his chose to close public hearing and leave the matter over to the Senate floor. On their say any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed public hearing is closed in. The resolution is laid over to DECEMBER 4th. Item, 44 U.S. Resolution public hearing 24 dash to 65 approve. The application of putting sports marketing in for variancen present amplified sound for the turkey trot Saint Paul on NOVEMBER. 28th by Shepard Row between Washington Street and Sherman Street. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone here to speak to this item? Item number? 44? Seeing none. A motion from MISS Maker to close public hearing and once again approved the turkey on 7 in favor nor opposed public hearing is closed in the resolutions, adopted the sound of a variance for it. Not the actual race. I support the race to item 45 solution. Public area, 24 dash 2.66 authorizing the emergency management Department to accept the 2024 Port Security Grant program. From the U.S. Department of Homeland Security through its Federal Emergency Management Agency. All right. This is a public hearing and item number. 45, is there anyone here to speak to the side and 45? Seeing none. The motion from this came to close public hearing and approve all in favor say Aye, any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed the public hearing is closed in the resolutions adopted item. 46 is resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.72 amending the financing and spending plans and the fire department and the amount of $25,974.81 from the Minnesota task Force. One reimbursement from the city, Diana. This is a public hearing on item number. 46, is there anyone here to speak to this item? Seeing none a motion from his Johnson to - close the public hearing and approve all in favor say Aye, Any opposed 7 favorite know in a post public hearing is closed in the resolutions adopted item. 47 is resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.73 amending the financing and spending plans and Department of Emergency Management Budget and the amount of $30,000 for the 2024 emergency Management performance Grant to provide assistance for emergency management to attend right training public education and purchase equipment. This is a public hearing and item number. 47, is there anyone here to speak to this item? Seeing none. A motion from MISS Jones to close public hearing and approve all in favor say Aye, Any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed the public hearing is closed in the resolutions adopted item. 48 this resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.75 authorizing public works solid waste and recycling fund to amend the 2024 fiscal budget, including a reallocation of spending by $891,692 to just expenditures in funds 60 45 and to 41 for the purchase of 60 west Sycamore Street approved Island Arias ph 24 dash one. 71. Okay. This is a public hearing on item number. 48, is there anyone here to speak to this item? Seeing none. A motion from Ms Yang to close public hearing and approved on there say any of us. 7 in favor nor opposed the public hearing is closed in the resolutions adopted. Item forty-niners are 24 dash. 71 making finding on the peeled array Krueger to a nuisance abatement order for 3.27 Maple Street and council filed Early Co. 24 Dash 7. Okay. So i welcome our legislative hearing. Officer Marshall Mormon to give us an update on this item item number. 49. So PRESIDENT Council members on the Herman Safety and inspections has not been able to get out to the property check to see whether or not this vehicle is running because of Difficulty in scheduling a police officer to go at the same time and my recommendation would be to have the council adopted the resolution, which makes a finding that it wasn't in compliance at the time that it was originally checked for the council. Just is not in compliance now because of where its part. We don't know if it's not in compliance because it's not running, but that that could be determined when there's to recheck foretell. And so I I this is and I think that the council could close the book on end simply. Vote on today. Any questions for his Mormon? Go ahead. MISS Johnson. Just a clarifying The council does move forward today. I think I'm wondering if there's any notification around the timing of like when that might happen for the constituent to know like when they would need to be able to prove that their current or not. And they will need to be an appointment they've we can win that person inspected. Officer coming. Ok? Thank you. Any other questions for ms moment. As but he for directions item. I think that been a lot of discussion and which I appreciate both the testimony of. Gregor and also the updates from our legislative hearing. Officer. And I appreciate the fact that there will be actual notification that appointment being made. And I hope that they're able to work a constituent to establish whether or not the sped at this time. I move the recommendation of legislative hearing officer. find that reasonable based on the discussion today in the we just so mtion from Ms Johnson, too, move the recommendation of the legislative hearing officer on there is a I I and ii 7 in favor nor opposed the resolution is adopted. Legislative hearing consent agenda items. 53, 80 refer you for your consideration. All right. His Mormon other hand to be taken separately today as part of our legislative can consent agenda. Yes, there are 3 items. The first item is number. 61. Item 61 is our late are 24 dash 3, 4, ordering the rehabilitation are raising removal. The structure set 6.74. Magnolia Avenue. Nice within 15 days after the NOVEMBER 6 City Council public hearing. All right. We look to his Mormon for a staff report. An update on this item. this moment? On screen is image of 6.74. Magnolia with all of the notices, of course that are on There's different view. Here's a view of beer which you can see is pretty dilapidated condition. The electrical boxes, of course, that have You moved there's a picture, obviously just tall grass and weeds. And I wanted this one to attention because this crux of the matter here. And I apologize that there's this. If the photos are word. In - this photo, you can see here that there is a big hole in the foundation's described as a 10 foot hole in the foundation and that 10 foot hole was identified by the fire department called in to Department Safety inspections. The building is otherwise generally dilapidated well. So 18 months ago when this was identified, it was condemned and refer to vacant building program. The building is now on the cusp of foreclosure ice Bowl twice with the attorney representing Loan Care llc and on the line as well David Sharpe from Guardian Asset Management. What they were looking for was time for their client to be able to figure out if they wanted to rehabilitate or demolish this building. In our 2 conversations, they had get to have the sheriff sale. Perhaps they had it yesterday. My. Recommendation. To you is that because we don't have a performance deposit or code compliance inspection report applied for. That. They haven't shown a good faith effort that they're going to be moving forward in some direction to rehabilitate the sun. In those cases, I would recommend the building's removal. The attorney representing this keep on fund Carla from. I believe Trump law is on the line and can speak a little bit more about where her client is. That with a and the rehabilitation. And this is a five-minute hearing. Looking to see if there any questions. So I guess we'll go to the public hearing for number 61. All right. This is a public hearing for item number. 61. If you're here to speak to this item, we welcome you up for public hearing. You know what and industrialize this person is on foam. So I look to our staff on the phone for test fire for a number. 61. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT. Somali and counseling to have color move on. People come out. Have you press star 6 mute yourself to get in the testimony? Please. Hi, we can hear you coming up. Good evening. Council PRESIDENT In a mine dollar am the Attorney for Unknown llc. We do have update on matter. We're trying reach an agreement week and was willing to take on which willing to take on issue of we have to be taking the property. The invest in partnership with Metro will things. And Kevin. Well, I believe it's known to this council. The agreement will just arrived like a 30 minutes also or less before the hearing. So we not done that people work that is needed to presented to council, but it will take a few days to give the final people work. Event. It's winning not be off and also to order effects and that this will quiet had we commend it and we are also looking to sue occur yesterday. And we are looking to redo the redemption period to 5 weeks. So that ownership of the property can get to demand a able to process. Oh, goodness is few people need it. So I am asking the council to give little bit more time to get people to get to and have deferment been posted. The investor well ordering code compliance. Inspection. The invest. So also willing to inspect and maintain property. And they want new kidney from exchange aided and to prevent any waste, fraud and abuse. And would do anything being that needed to Don't you know that to protect the property this time. So even council concern vote back to meet mom so that we can finalize process and post the bond order to quote, inspection. That didn't end. That would really appreciate your consideration. Alright, is there anything else you want to share with us today for your public to public comment? No, Okay. Appreciate you. Calling in. So will see there's no one else to testify item, I guess a motion from the to close public hearing on say Aye, aye, any opposed. So I look now to missing on any further direction. On the side things. Council PRESIDENT. Well, first, I want to say thank you to the property owner's attorney for coming and testifying. I have a couple of questions for you. Marcia. First one is that you receive any of that at the updates that the attorney mentioned that ought to in their testimony today or are you aware of any of I became aware today that. And then they had out there in discussion with an investor. To do the That's find it's it's not really what's directly in front of council right now. It's a potentially elegy for the teacher. The bank is seeking shortened redemption time period. If they get it, that would be 6 weeks. That means the earliest they can take title to it is mid to late DECEMBER after mid to late DECEMBER than the investor would buy it the through this development agreement that you would have to approve and then you'd be looking at giving the performance deposit posted in the Co So on. It doesn't explain to me why fire isn't incentivized at this point to post the performance to pass it and deal with any money later in the and the purchase agreement and contracts that they have. That. You know, it's important that this happened. It's consistent rules we follow in legislative hearing and our recommendations to you. Is that those be taken care If you want to grant Greece, that is always the council's prerogative to do so. And then just a question for you. If we do, if we do your recommendation that say, like within the 15 days, there basically is a lot of progress being made would make a nice for a change in our decision that all. Can you explain that? If the council orders the building removed within 15 days, that would put the deadline to NOVEMBER. 22nd new would be only looking at a Alicia, at that point in time, the only change that I could hear that might be happening in that time is a preliminary agreement with someone who would work in partnership with the owner to redevelop the key attributes to begin with there. Could they do those? Yes, I guess if you want to give them a chance to do that, I would say. We have legislative hearings next Tuesday covering remover repair cases and this could be referred back to see if they. Do decide to post performance deposit or 5 for inspection. They've been aware that this would be my recommendation since her first hearing on SEPTEMBER 24th. If you're from the testimony and ask for more time, same willing to give more time. But I would it be helpful to hear from you lke what you can with the appropriate? They mentioned I heard a few days so I would be inclined to do on one weekly over on it. You have any thoughts on that at all. I at this juncture would say. All of I'm relying on them ordering that Co compliance inspection report. We need to get to square one and we're not even square one yet. So getting that and getting the performance deposit posted. That is consistently in my recommendations. I would say yes, give time. They're showing that they're in And I'm simply not seeing that they're in this. But if they do in the next week, do those things. Then? Yes, I would say. I would. Changed my recommendation. Okay. Great. Thank you. It's a flood here that I would like to move forward with the one weekly over. You want to say that if they're basically isn't about up, isn't any major progress being made in MAY? Would it move next week to take the recommendation from a legislative hearing? Officer? Motion for on say Aye. Any of 70 favorite. No one opposed. The resolution is laid over to the member 13th. All right. To storm another. Any other items taken separately to day. There are 2 there's been a request to take item 75 then it will be 74. 75 is our Lach. 24 dash 3.13, ratifying the field. Special tax assessments for property at 5.74. Sherborne Avenue. I've 75 go ahead. This is an unusual property, although there are several like this. For our town of West 7th the front part of the parcel there is a duplex. It's flat sit in the back part of the parcel Ali side. There is a single family home. And so that's kind of different construction pattern, but kind of charm and Saint Paul. This situation with this is that both buildings were registered, vacant buildings and one of them got off the vacant building, less the front house. That's a duplex. And that happened in 2019 for the building was sold. The people who purchased the building 2020. So DECEMBER 29th of 2020. Are living in the front house. The Duke talks and the back continues to be a registered vacant building. It has the property has since 2013. So we're 11 years in and we're for years. And under the current owner. Order has represented that they were not aware that this was a registered vacant building when they purchased it from Twin Cities, Land Bank and they didn't realize until recently that it was showing up on their property taxes as with a vacant building, see attached to it. They're not sure what happened to annual that just ration renewals. The next question becomes how to get out of the vacant building program for this house in the back of the lot. And the traditional measure they own the measure that w use is for a property. That's a category 2 registered they can building. It needs a certificate of code compliance. That is the measure for getting out of that. They can building program in this particular case. Doing some work on the House, not work that needed permits, but that there's been some things happening. they believe that the that's the qualities of the building that did make it the definition registered vacant building in the past. Don't exist anymore. The rub is that. There has to be minimum code compliance with that certificate of code compliance. Have talking with the owners and trying to figure out pathway to make this more doable. This is, of course, you have a property like this and not only are the registration fees on the expensive side, but also doing the fixes are when you need to hire contractors on the expensive side as well. Even if there are things that can be undertaken on your own. So what's in front of now is the proposed assessments. That assessment is. $5,075 covers the time period from they excuse me. MARCH of 2024. Through MARCH of 2025. So we're about. 8 months or so. Now. Looking at this guy and I believe they're hopeful, too. Get out of the vacant building program or have the removed. So my recommendation is approval and totally flexible about. Paving over time. Other kinds of things that the council can do is I think at this juncture a question of getting a Fresh Co compliance. The current one is 5 years old working with neighborworks or or on the land trust or the like to be able to put together a plan. A plan to get project done. And they're here and ready to go. And are we in? Is much understood all that. Just want to make sure I'm looking through any questions from his warming right now. Not see any. Okay, GOD. Really thank you. Yes, I just wanted to make sure that we have clarity. Thank you, council PRESIDENT, thank you. Foreman on the clarity about this. So as one of the clear few things. So I this is property in a bag is considered a single-family house. Can you explain like house and not considered a a d u? Know that's like kind of like new emerging policy that has been brought before us and hra. But if it was 80, would that change anything about like the condition that it's in a vacant building program? There are no separate vacant building policies that apply to 80 use versus other kinds of structures that would still be, you know, it's just strictly structure based not zoning or other kind of. Considerations based so it is house and it which makes it a building or portion of the building. And this is a building and a person with 2 which it's it's hard. And d you know if there ever the last time there was a certificate of occupancy for that building in the backyard? 2013. And then it was purchased years after that. Yeah, it was purchased in 2020 DECEMBER 29th and that was from Twin Citizen Bank. Thank you. And then also. the last practice, I just took some you say what's before us right now is we're working get the property owners out of the vacant building. Program and get it removed when you send remove it, proposing the assessment that assessed this year to be removed are. To close last vacancy feet out and go into the new year with. Without the property owner's instead inside a program. Excuse My recommendation that's in front of year I to ratify the assessment on there is no notation to spread it over time that something owner preferred to address. And her on and I would hope that is the ability to get this vacant building fell close to the next 4 to 6 months that there isn't another vacant building fee that this would be the very last one, whether or not there can be consideration for decreasing its status. The council 6. And questions for Ms Mormont. Ok? That's good public hearing for a number. 75. This is a public hearing on item number 75, is there anyone here? Speak to this? I am. Thank you for being here. We welcome you today. And yet one come on up. Let us know your name and where you're coming from. And you'll have is it's. 2 minutes. 2 minutes. Okay. Good evening, everyone. Many faces here tonight on the council. Thank you so much for hearing me out. my Do my Rocky? I of the assets in the back we'll be doing a testimony. I just want to give context to the situation. We are business owners in Frank Town and on the restaurant located just the House. And we're working closely with Frogtown Neighborhood Association when we first moved into the property in 2020, 2013 at the time, there was a gentleman who is a former commissioner who was working on the property and had had for many years it had been blighted. They had a fireman from this. Homeless individuals that came into the property when we were living there and caught on fire was a nuisance. It was all the things that you would predict fall under blighted properties. We're not that next. Since moved into the house, we renovated not just the interior of our property, but also the exterior of the property that we and we're talking about in question back alley. We removed all fire has it is. So all of the wind has been removed. All of the. insulin has Everything has been removed. So it's completely got it from the inside. We begin the external work on the backside t it. You guys are mothers. Understand it. We've done the external work of the electricity on the backside. And so at this point, we're at a junction will be just financially can't afford to move forward on our own to do any of the work we inherited this property rather than tearing it down. We know that there's a huge homeless and house population happening right now. And so rather than tearing this property down which is a 2 bedroom full up 2 story house. We want to keep it and make sure that somebody can have affordable housing unit to my that is upstaging me They could have affordable housing units. So we're asking that you take that off the vacant property. We don't want to have to knock the property down. Want to leave its for somebody. So our request today is that it's a very unfair. I over time. It's a very unfair situation for family who financial can afford and we inherited it. And we're asking that you can vary to ad you and give us time. To really fix it up and take a softer making property. I've passed visuals that were not given to you earlier previously when provide you with the visuals that they had. Those vision. That's not issue is these are the of the property. Thank you very much. Every my mom is going to go out next. Thank you, MISS Williams. Appreciate it. All right. Anyone else here on item number. 75. And our youngest testifiers have been clearly heard. Thank All motion from sweet guests to close public hearing I didn't realize that we have another person but welcome. I had explained. To your app that, you know, we moved in kind a sudden my Senate been murdered. We need to get some housing. People helped us do that. The organization that was dealing with this property had all these big ideas to a lot of stuff out and then disappeared. I'm sure you some of fit for mayors. That whole process. So we want aware of the different pieces coming together and thankfully, I've got some clarity on that now. This uexpected piece that we need to have them. As Rob mentioned. We've got new society 9 at a new Roof. It's been pretty much totally got it. We've got a new box on the back because, you know that homeless people that are out copper, you know, so been replaced and just realize that we did not have to have licensed professionals to do all that works. You we even aware of that. I mean, you know, homeowners you gotta learn on these pieces. Going to get with inspection, peace, get that. Then agreed to try to meet halfway and get things going just hoping we have extra $5,000 sitting up in the sky somewhere. You know, to pull down to rectify the scenario. So hopefully going to give us some of the nonprofits in the community bond of trust. A couple of this to see what they can do if they have any funding available left for us to work with. But just hoping that, you know, the city Council and the offices that we need to deal with be considerate of a son work with us on that piece which seems like can happen. Thank Thank you. Appreciate it. And if you can sign in on board, we also appreciate that thinks part of the public hearing process. All right. Checking one more time. You want to add anything little man. Got other continue if make phones. Okay. Okay. All It there's no one else testified much from his bully to close public hearing on Thursday. Any of us. Billy, I look to you for inside We just heard and possible direction. Thank you so much for just know listening. Thank you so much for coming and testifying. Thank you, Marcia. Also for you're critical. Examination on this by giving the range of options working with the property owners of family. You know, I just items like this have came before us where particularly where people have shared that they are, you know, doing everything within their power within their limitations of the funds that they have to do. Some changes. Some of the questions that were raised at when I first examined this on the agenda the question of, you know, in upon the purchasing, like where where the city in terms of how did we notify new property owners? Haven't we notify when there is a transfer of ownership of that assessment. I would imagine especially someone as future home buyer that that would be the job with the title, you know, company r-ar. That would be the job of the dsi man. I am aware Missus, MISS Williams have received letters it. This is a situation where she has and she has continued paying for about 3 years and $5,000. On top of your property. Taxes is not cheap at all. I am hearing from you and also from the homeowners that were working with community partners who are known to help preserve housing It has a first come first served fund on helping people with it. These types repairs. We are aware of Ramsey County and also the city of Saint Pa that has sure that we're providing affordable housing. I'm hearing that the property in the back is large enough to, you House, a family, additional family back there. And I think that is of interest of the city. So my recommendation, as I'm just giving a full staff of just what are the challenges and what are some possible seps? My what I would like to adopt is in alignment with your eyes. We got recommendation is if we if we can temporary wave that vacancy fee of $5,000 and given to MARCH of 2025. To get the repairs done and we will. Examine it and MARCH in 2025. Since that is the deadline of in terms how much time she has to be in the program. And I'm also open to talk with my peers because I don't think give land over poduced anything. That will be effective the propose assessment. The deadline is in MARCH 2025. So I if she is able to have those rpairs, - whether that giving getting funding invested whether from around the Land Trust neighborhood works are some community-based organization too weird. She is o the plan has a work plan, at least as she could present back 2 and MARCH on recommending that to the council. If we can lay that over until next year. Well, I think you as Billy for thinking this through and want to just confirm what I heard your motion. As I thought I first heard you say you don't want to over, but then I heard you say you do so. Is it that you want to? Laid over to MARCH 2025? That gives time for a community-based organization like Rhonda Land Trust or other to get involved to help bring the property into compliance. And then we would revisit it or what is your? I want to just I'm I'm asking purely to understand. Yes, Visit at as deadline of this assessment in 2020 MARCH of 2025, if everything is in compliance and she is up to cold, then I am also offering to waive that $,000 because I'd rather, you know, the funds to be used towards actually getting the place into compliance. Understood. That what part of that condition would b. Marcia has already provided to them having a certificate of occupancy connected to that as well. All right. I see. So I saw question from a sneaker and then MISS Kim. So let's just discuss that. Thank you for helping me clarify with with you. And that's going to sneaker things come PRESIDENT. I I support the motion. My understanding, though, is so it's sort of staying the vacant building fee until 2025. Pending the completion of the complaints reported this get back knowing the item over until then taking action today to stand. Is that? Yeah, thank you for that language pending pending that laying over to just to make sure I'm clear. believe this fee is 4 MAY 23 to FEBRUARY. 24. And then with the property potentially incur another vacant building fee from now on to through 2025. And again, I so I support what we're trying to do here in terms of not taking money for the vacant building fee and letting that go towards giving the property rehabilitated. But I'm just curious, are we going to be looking at? Another? They can do In the meantime. 2 I think I'm hearing 2 questions. First, is this the to the time period? MARCH 24th. MARCH. 24 through MARCH. 25 second question is if the intent if the intent is to hold this in abeyance, hoping that the certificate is granted bfore and that therefore the council can choose to. Way that make it go away. Whatever we're you know, that. You would need to. Taken action of laying it over because the assessments in front of you right now, you would either have to ratify it, reduce it, delete it. Orlando, for those are the emotions that are available to you for this type And so I would recommend a layover in going to the end of MARCH. Last meeting in MARCH of 25 MARCH 26th of 2025. But also wondered this moment if then another vcant building fee will be applied in the intern or if there's a way to. Also hold that in abeyance. What will happen is that a new registration will The vegetation matter will go out in, I believe the beginning of MARCH of 25. If that appealed, council can certainly grant a 90 day waiver on that fee. Which create a larger cushion in there. I'm reading this is going from MAY of 23 to FEBRUARY. 24, what? What's what's in front of us? That's you're right. You can it. Once it hits MARCH, it's going generate another one right? So it would be FEBRUARY. I want to make sure that I'm walking to the line here appropriately. So in line I see MISS Kim and then Johnson think it's I think it's okay that we just keep clarifying what we think the best motion is. I think we are all. I'm tracking, but I'm hearing that people generally want to not payment costs. And then what's the legal mechanism to do that? And does that create a timeframe that adds the cost? We didn't think they're so let's keep working through this. But I can to go to MISS Kim and then to Johnson. I'm just going to pick up where we left off with that. So can you just clarify if there is a second they can building? Fee that would be apply during that time which you are offering this stay or deletion. A ratification of the vacant building. The because that's that's still unclear. The anniversary this March 19th of 2023. And so that would be the first day of the new fee cycle. So this would not make a separate action on that forthcoming. Okay. So this next MARCH. They will have a second. Knew all of that registration fee. Hopefully that is it's clear minus. I'm also very interested in supporting whatever is amenable to the council member of which is residence is My question is much more related to some of the impetus of this. I'm very confused and quite frankly, a little concerned how someone can purchase a property from the land trust and not have a disclosure that it is on a vacant building registration in Saint Paul. I don't know if there is a way we can get that answered. But I want to listen up general. But if there is knowledge to that effect, I would love be very interested. I feel like that feels very disingenuous to the consumer. If they don't know which to me is even a greater motivation for me to support what I'm hearing. Council member Bowie potentially motion for. The notification that I'm aware of, it is incumbent upon seller to disclose this situation to a buyer. You make these housing disclosures through one of 2 means one would be the truth in sale of housing report, which we're all pretty familiar with. The other would be giving the code compliance inspection report to the purchaser. They did have a code compliance inspection report within a year of the transaction. So that could have been used as a disclosure document, whether it was understood as such. I don't know. I can say that for the past 4 years, the vacant building registration letters and renewals have gone to the current owners. Yeah, I think than the issue that I'm hearing for myself is that it's not done in point. It's whole point of sale. And if it's required by the seller, it's been a while since person looked at a test, but I don't think it's in there or maybe it's been updated. But I guess 6. Extending some since the to the homeowner that is with in good faith, repairing a property and is working really hard to establish multiple generations of home ownership. We heard from the parents said that the owner and from their children today. So to me, it just feels very incumbent that we have some sort of clarity on that. And it sounds like it's not a today thing that lifting it up that that feels very disingenuous the interested in what land trust property was purchased and so for another time. Appreciate the information. Okay. Thanks going to MISS Johnson. Go ahead. Yeah, I'm honestly still like my brains kind of still quite a few different things that were shared from the testimony as well. So as I think even provided given the staff report. Also just clarity can you clarify? Who was the seller in this case? According to Ramsey County records, the soloist Fences, Land Bank. And then I guess I'm just trying to understand the emotion that we are. Looking at is to lay tis matter over and total the next time a feat would go into place or to the end of this be I'm trying to understand what the motion is and whether or not like a layover or whether it would make more But make sense or what is cause? I think I'm just getting that like we're laying this over, but I don't really understand what the purpose of will you over. Is We are able to yet knowing that there MAY be further. Business on this property in the future to what I'm under city years. I'm just so I'm really I'm honestly JANUARY asking for my clarity standpoint, but I'm just trying to if I'm understanding at any kind Johnson, sorry know that. But I just I'm trying to understand deletion is warranted or if this is a layover in total next because I think for me, I'm hearing more that this MAY be the situation that requires follow-up also MAY warrant a deletion. As more. And it looks like you want to say something. I would recommend the Leo for in this the city charter hasn't been examined in the context of this particular assessment and it does speak to reasons why the suspect can be debated. And we just want to double check to make sure things are in alignment. There. over would also give you the opportunity it deleted at the next stage to say you're not losing that option by continuing the conversation. So you're saying we could take. Over to confirm under what conditions we can delete and assessment if that is viewed as appropriate. To also if that is not workable, look at what does it look like to - you essentially stall having to pay marshal resources to the situation. Come up with something more fair. That doesn't incur additional fees in the meantime and what that is and bring that motion back. Is that correct? Okay. I really looking to you. Do you want to? Take like a week or 2 and that like what what do you think? I think will with that that we. The deletion. Would that be coming back in just in terms of like figuring out what are the new policy? I personally I I would rather way on a deletion just because. I mean, the over was just a tool that I thought that, you know, we have. But we have as we're working together on this as a collector of and, you know, there's a tool that would move to actually delete it that way. You know, give time to do the investments into the property and then get the certificate of occupancy. And, you know, these community partners can really, you know, have. You know, the opportunity to to work with them is racial Williams. Just because I think the conditions of how even got here just seems like it's more of the responsibility of the seller. I'm not figuring, you know, not resolving that issue before they had put it back on the market and I handing over the responsibility to this family. So I'm more so deletion. The question I have about the deletion, what laying it over in 2 weeks? Know I wouldn't want the family to have to come back here and testify continue working with your office. But wouldn't want a situation where like, well, you know, actually does fit our cold. And yet our back in the So correct me if I'm wrong was Mormon. But what I'm understanding as we could do is that the layover gives us time to actually look at deletion recommendation because there's a there's legal requirements we have to satisfy in order to do that. And we want to make sure that the situation satisfies that. And this gives us just the work time to do that. And then if that is not an avenue, then we look at the next best workable set of things to essentially get the goal that I hear you saying that. I think members say which is like. Let's try not to incur this fee. Let's look at ways to defer that. Let's look at time to get resources to the situation to actually get those funds into improving the building and bringing it into code and satisfy what needs to happen. Yes. And then the point that sneaker brought up, which is if we actually just take it in depth, down the road, does that actually like create an additional problem of? But now with the amount of time we've given another fee is coming in, that's that's what that That's what the shortly we're only over allows us to It's just the time to make a plan. And then I fully hear you not wanting to, you know, to minimize impacts and community members having to come back. I will say if we can just some extra time today to do that, like work, Idon't know that they would need to come back if we I think we're I'm I'm seeing colleagues been pretty supportive of wanting to help. He ran so this is just where my thought is. But I that's just absent of me. Not knowing legally what we could do beyond that today. And I looking to MISS Carter If there's other advice there. But I think that's what's probably. Most appropriate. PRESIDENT The recommendation. I'm in. It's more of an aside. You can delete. It might over. We've got some options. You can craft kind of what you want, basically. But what I heard is warm and today is we actually aren't sure if we can delete it. That's what we need verify. Clara fights the story I believe the council can take that action. I think that it would need to be examined to make sure that the record demonstrates that because there are some specific criteria, the city charter speak to conditions order for the suspect to be debated. And I would just want to make sure that the council said it chance to tick those boxes before taking that action. We're going really have a motion to lead. I think that's something that, you know, a technicality that can come back to my office inform us about if it does grant that we are within that framework to to actually allow that, if not, then I guess we'll just have to re examine this item again. And the you know, can just move second the initial option, which was laying it over to to MARCH. I just don't want to lay it over to a point where its past that next, time period where another letter letters going out. So even if that's exempt so that you wear your MARCH hearing. That is. But we I want to make sure our attorney is back on the record that this I'm getting guidance that we actually can believe it. Is that actually the case? I certainly can do the legal research, but the drive-thru version I believe Council has deleted assessments before and I do not. And I'm not aware of the reason you could want okay. So it sounds like the motion from his buoys that you want to take action to believe has been today. Yes, and that we just confirmed that that is something that we are allowed to do right now. Okay. So there's a motion from his bully. To believe te suspects. Any discussion on that motion. Meeting to discuss All in favor say Aye. Aye. Any opposed. 70 favorite. No one opposed. The resolution is adopted as amended to delete, be assessed. A And they want to thank you to our committee members who waited through a lot for that. Appreciate you being here. 74 really are our 24 dash. 46 0th making finding on the appeal substantial abatement order for 3.46, you're an avenue in council filed early age are 24 dash. 37 s. I know here last He's just here for the recreational value, ok? So the So thank you, sir. I see that you're for 74. We're going to first hear from his Mormon and then we'll get to hear from you. And I also appreciate your patience they've been waiting. So let me my Yeah. Yeah. Staff reports are so first we're going hear from is And and so if you'll just stepped aside for a second, thank you. And then once we've had the chance to ask her questions without a public hearing, pre she it. All right. Go ahead women for item number. 74. Council, PRESIDENT Council 3.46 Sherman Avenue was originally in front of the City council and the summer of 2022, I would have seen the file in DECEMBER of 20 and NOVEMBER of 22. Te council's revisited the file on 2 occasions at the first time that you review it was 10% completion. And then the second time the river it it it was at 60% completion. This is 3rd time you are. If you're in this file. Concern I have at this point well, there's a couple. The first one is that we did not have a legislative hearing. We tried on 2 separate occasions to reach MR. Let's get to discuss where things were at. He had not reached out to department staff to schedule a progress inspection, which is a requirement and had them for his previous hearings. So that gives us an ocean. Just how close are we to the finish line? And it definitely informs what the recommendation relevant to the performance deposit many extra time that is needed to complete the project. I'm not having communication from MISTER Lasky not having phone connect e-mails, At the very last Why do we call the building inspector and asked the building inspector to reach out? Not this is actually responsibility of the property owner to communicate with the building inspector and has been forever. But just hill as pull this out and the building inspector did get out there and take a look. And there's a few things left. The other permits are final. I walk in here today recommendation that I formulated prior to any communication. And that is that of the $10,000 that has been posted and performance deposit, because this such a long. I recommend that the council 4 foot 5,000 of tose dollars if the project continues to be incomplete, that you continue to forfeit and $1000 incumbents, every 2 weeks until the project is complete where the money is gone at which point you would revisit it for enforcement action. The council could definitely choose not to forfeit money and grant additional time. I believe additional time is being asked for. I don't have an updated work plan or anything. I Got a sense of where that's at. With respect to the performance deposit, my recommendation is 5. The council could sign on the council could say 1, 2, 3, 4, but it sees fit in this case. You ae normally at the six-month mark. When you look at these, we are 6 months plus 7 weeks in this case because we tried 2 times to have hearings on this. Any questions from his Mormon. Have a question present, my brain is almost rain to much rain as want to make sure I'm like make want use a forfeit you mean like basically the 10,000 that he put as a deposit, we. For like the city take said in the then gets if you was to finish all of the complete the project. He remaining $5,000 back. Performance deposit is intended to do just that. Ensure performance. And in this case, it is by finding that performance did not occur in the time granted by the council. And that's my recommendation for te forfeiture. It is if you were to go with my recommendation do that for future, they would still be $5,000 that could returned completion of the project within the timeline that you grant. I see a question from MISS Johnson just want clarify and the staff report this moment. When the inspector was sent - out or inquired out was their successful contact? Yes, the inspector had to. The phone number 4. Ms Lots and a was able to then reach MR. Polanski. I MAY have more questions after the public hearing. For now, I'm All right. And this woman just so that I and also from tll your brain place. Can you summarize one more time? What your recommendation is today. My recommendation is that $5,000 before on of the performance, the positive for non completion of the project and the time granted by the City Council and that the forfeiture continue until completion of the project. Thank you. All right. So that's what's before us for consideration. Go ahead. Sorry, one more question about this. So I maybe can hear from the public testimony. But what are the plans for this property? Is this investment properties is improperly helps too. Right now. No one lives there was ever in the history 10. It's there. The family lived there. It could question when we originally had hearings 2 years ago and this MR. What's Key indicator he would be moving into this property coming into town? And moving in here, he since indicated to my team that she would be selling the property. So I'm not sure the current status. That's something I defer to him on. All right. So over the questions really going after the public hearing. This is a public hearing item number. 74, thank you for being here today and for your patients. Have you come up to the microphone? You don't have to adjust them that we get the pickup jst fine. And then you have, I believe 2 minutes to speak to this issue and gives more context. Go ahead spit him. Like to pass up the planet report to the council PRESIDENT From 2022 match. If indulge me, it's going to take longer than 2 minutes to couple more minutes. being told that you get 5 minutes. So yes, go ahead. But you'll notice on the code compliance report. But first of all, this building is about up 800 square-foot single-story With That was built 1985. The upstairs was an attic. I know where the couple lived in it for decades. The neighbors have told me they passed away in a few got it. Thought he could remodel it completely. Got We purchased it at the end of 216. Just prior to that we purchased the building. We my wife and I for just the building behind 3, 4, 7, university. This came on the market for a very, very reasonable price. Know we're going to do with it. Likewise, we purchased the building at 10. 47 University. We employ people in Saint Paul. We have commercial property in Saint Paul. We have The city council will be incumbent upon the city Council to understand that we are not Muslim large. What we had planned to do with this that just set on it. Ad then with our building up 10, 47. We were going to tear it down and put up an apartment building where workers, Minnesota Housing Authority. We hired the rush of Ripley, the best consultant working women, sort housing authority to put up a 40 unit building at 10. 47. And waiting to buy the House next to this house at 3, 4, 6, children. This is all related City Council. And then. Citizens of Saint Paul voting rent control the building. We're going to put up at 10. 47 would have been a mixed Subsidized I just want So we're here for 3.46 run. And I do want to say that I need you use your marks on like what your plan on point? As you were sitting on this building, we got a letter from the city do something with a tear down rebuild it. Okay. The code compliant report does not say anything about Putin and heating system. I put in you had a line of people here are talking about energy efficiency. I put a 96% energy efficient furnished. I put in all did the work. All new ductwork. When Nate 9th a building inspector went through it last night, make sure that I'm not going to make you do for I'm not going to make you do anything. You don't have to do. Meaning the walls or 2 by 4 walls. Putin are 13 insulation. I asked Nate Mine to fight for him out. Make it are 19 more efficient. Sure. The upstairs there was no stairs going to the attic. The upstairs. Loft bedroom, should estimate can I finish this off? He said I can't stop you from finishing your attic. They won't be legal bedrooms. But to be a great place for kitsch. So now took this. 800 square-foot rack. Floors were off by 3 inches. Pour the concrete floor. Innovation. We shouldn't have to. For all the sidewalks. Leveled up the yard. So now we have we are for kids that can play image. And Built 2 more bedrooms upstairs. For children. Okay. Now you have I all the wiring. I could have kept the service there's wearing push I put in wiring from where the power comes in from Xcel Energy Ashdown 200 am sure wrist rewired the entire thing. Put in a laundry facility. And the back porch. And here's what happened with your inspectors. Your inspectors have been really super. All right. But your plumbing inspector recently said she won't final it because I had some missing drywall in the bathroom Some wiring. Will nothing to a plumbing finalizing. She wanted to see the the washing machine installed because she wanted to see the discharge holes. In the plate in the wall. She wants Tehran. The plumber, stab them for a dishwasher. We weren't gonna put the dishwasher him yet. She said I want final tell you, put the dishwasher. When you buy houses. They come without appliances. Lot of times new house ok, got it. And what you're inspectors wanted this done plan just yesterday. Everything Randy, all the Coachella, all rage have. Finalized. I met yesterday. He looked around. Tried to tell me that has helped carpeting festive, trim around the windows I got to put a hinge on the hatch door that goes to the bsement. None of that's on the court compliant report. No heating is on. Call compliant report. So I've done. Way above and beyond turn this wreck in 2, a high quality, tight energy efficient home. And I'd like if the city Council one goal to me. As property owners as commercial property. I want to make sure you know that your of your time. And I want to know what you're asking, because I've heard every single thing you said. What do you want us to do today? What I'm asking for? It's not a matter of the money. The principle. When want to give up the money. But it's the principle I went above and beyond. What do you make the nuisance conditions? That's really what this is about. The building's done. But was there yesterday and then you try to fund and 2 more things on their. Okay. That has nothing to do with to conclude. Do you want do you want? Will come next week. And they can again should So it sounds like what you want just have someone come in Reinspected and deem of the work that you've done to be addressing the conditions that are the reason why they're taking your should be taken off your desk to list. All the courage of signed off. That's a far better structure in that neighborhood. Then started out on top of that? When I started, sir, I I just want to know what you're asking is I understand that's what I'm at time. But we just we have to make this decision in in like a manner that meets our. Like I can just listen your story and then be like, well, that sounds good like we have to make decisions within certain framework. So that time trying to hone in on like what is the thing that you want? So if we have other questions, we can ask those of you, but thank you for giving us the lay leave land so far and just stay close by. We might bringing back up to understand some things Any way to talk about. As an investor in Saint Paul. The city council him have an idea of where investors property investors or at least We're coming from and what we had planned to do and how badly so soured on the city of that's going to be outside the scope of this item. But I'm sure that whoever represents you in the council's happy to talk to you. But right now we're on top when 3. 33, 46 sherborn that's your time for now. Thank you. So I have a motion from MISS Bowie to close public hearing on their say Aye, Any opposed. ok, so we've heard information from the applicant and I am looking to MISS Buoyed to see if you have other questions from his Mormon or thoughts here yet. Not really a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a agreat land would matter in the Testifier. Thappreciate the investment. We do And of sustainable housing. I think after everything I'm hearing, on the 5 k The property owner to just get completion. I simply just wanted add t just quarter. And specter, I'm not sure, particularly if that is something that he has 2 requests. Are we can just make it order to send it back to a legislative hearing for inspected to go out. Look at where it's at and then just comes back to us tonight. It will do is job within hearing. And from what I'm hearing, I think warm and we just so like I'm looking at the resolution right? And it says on OCTOBER, 23rd. Excuse me, it says this was reviewed on the 18th and found they were not still abated. We're now and NOVEMBER 6, the at the community members saying that work has happened. And I my question is why not send an inspector out there? Have them verify that. I appreciate that. The community members saying that he has done all this above and beyond. This is about the 2 sons conditions being abated or not. And I just would like to get the chance to have that determined. What does Billy is saying? So is it workable to say that our action today is actually too not make a decision on the floor fitting? Ask that an inspector go out and verify what still needs to be debated and then decide what we do from there. Like how would we structure that? And I guess what other thoughts you have that. Kuz PRESIDENT Jalali on my request. An inspector actually went out yesterday. And so there is a small list of things that need to be done. But it makes sense to gve MR. Let's get a chance to finish those in order to get a certificate. And what amount of time and guests and look into bloom is Mormon. What amount of time based on what is left to do is reasonable. Well, I'm here to you know, I want to support ms Foreman's recommendation around 2 weeks. She's been, you know, really working hard at this. And this gentleman has have had quite a few times the. Fake laces, his investment property and to. Come to a close at a weeks So we are going to is to weekly over during which an inspector will go out and knock out the rest of the list. Ort. Bring back a result for us to act on their what are what is that motion then? I guess if we were trying to achieve what ms billions talking about, what would we be recommending? If you want me to conduct a hearing I would suggest NOVEMBER 19th. If you simply want to live over for 2 weeks and council it would 2 weeks from today. U.S.. To weekly over. Inspector goes out hearing on the 19th for them to go through that 20th. It comes to us. All right. Motion from is believed to that effect on favor. Say Aye, aye. Aye. Any opposed. 7 intersection, fvorite know and oppose. The resolution is laid over to NOVEMBER. 20th. Is warm and are there any other items to take separately today from 50 to 80? know councilmember. All right. Thank you for your diligence is Mormon as always. This is a combined public hearing on item number 50 to 80 that have not been hurt. Is there anyone here to speak to any of these items? Going once going twice, seeing none. A motion from Ms Johnson to close public hearing and approve all which is seconded by Ms Kim on favor say Aye. I any opposed. 6, a favorite on post. Public hearings are closed in the consent agenda is adopted as amended. That brings us to the end of our business today. Appreciate everybody's. Work, perseverance, patience and grace. Today of all days. If there's nothing else come before us. Get some rest. We're adjourned.