adjourned. Forveryone. So why don t we start?T? Because we ve got. And I don t have the roll call list. Because Sonya does that. Oh, okay. Well, I didn t want to bypass that today. I think we can just sort of, um, go around and say our names. Don t. Who ss here? It s actually a good idea, because Noah then can meet everybody. That s truru Yep. Okay. So, are we ready? Yep. Everyone. Um. It is a beautiful day outside.Or the first time in a aeally long time. And so I assure you that we will be efficient witit our time today.. Appreciate everyone. Uh, being h he, as always. We are really honored today and excited t t be
welcoming a a brand new membebe of the Audit committee, brand new community advisor, Noah McVay. Um, I so I think we should go around and do quick ininoductions by way of both ll call and also reminding Noah who we are. And then maybe we ll end on you, Noah. And you can just,m, remind yourself, remind us, say a few words about yourself just to remind all of us since your interview. Um, so, Mia, do you want to start? Sure. Um, my name is Nia Vang, and I ve been tasked witit staffing the audit committee. I veeen fortunate to w wk with a very, um, thoughtful committee. Um, they have l ls of great ideas, and I m happy to carry forward their ideasas So. I m Jeremy Lasseter, a community advisor. And welcome
Noah Brodsky. Uh, interim ward r city council member. Him. Glad to have you, Rebecca. Saint Paul, City council member, Ward two. Uh, James Farnsworth, community advisor, Ward one. A a I m Noah. I mm Noah McVayay And, uh, I just want to thank you allll for giving me this opportunitytyo serve with you. And over the coming years, months and years and, uh, my background is in blblic administration and gogornmentnt accounting, and I m a a licensed substitute teacher in the Twin Cities metro. And soo that s what I bring to our discucuions. I m really looking fororrd to seeing where we can improve city operations and hopefully, um, improve public service dedevery, which is the whole
point of what we re here for. So great. Great. A a then we haha Stephanie. Yes. So, Sonia, go ahead. My name is Sonia and I am the new Pauli. Day of fits. Yes. Yes. We ll be staffing our committee going forward, and we really appreciate it. Thank you. T Tha you. I m going to be passing t really quickck. Sure. Thank you.U. And then MISS Dilworth is online. But we can t see her. Um, yet. Yet? There we go. All right, we can see you. We could see you. We could see her. For just as we have b bn able to see you. I think you need to to maybe start speaking, Stephanie. And thehe Yeah. There we go. Oh, but we can t hear youou s Sry. I need to
check. Yeah, I thinknk s s, u u Stephanie, can you hear me? Yay! Can you. We can hear you. Okay. I I don t use teams very often, so I h he to relearn it every time I use it. Um, this Stephanie Dilworth and I m a mmunity advisor. Ward one. Thank you. Great. Thanks. MISS. Dilworth. Um. All rigig, so our only can I. Can I have one? Oh. Thank you. No,o, it s all good. Um,, so, um, our. Just before w w dive rightnto the agenda, um, I want to report that Doctor Britt was able to present to the citit council theeport of the last audit. U u got. I defer to MR. To too a a his thoughts, but it seemed to me
like it was really well received. Um,he took some time, just like s s did with us, to go through the story map, which I think people were really interested in. Um, it ococrs to me now we shoulul probably follow upf we haveve t done so already. Just make sure we emama everyrye the the reporor and the link to the story map so they can look into it themselels. Um, but people had r rlly goodd questions and comments. And one of the cocoents,,ctually, that I don t think any of us had talked about was that perhaps Doctor Britt should alsls present this report to the cip cocoittee itself. Um, because they would be a g gd audiencnc for her recommendndions. Um, and so we we re following up
to g g that scheduled..Nd when it is, um, whether it s at a formal Cab committee meeting or a special meeting, we re not yet sure,e,ut we ll let everyone k kw in c ceembers of this committtt want to attend. I think it d be really interesting t t see that repept presented directly tohe committee and see what discussisi ensues. So, um, so that was helpful. And then. Yeah. Can I share that I m in the process of scheduling a meeting withhe well, the research teaeam, uh, off the technology teaea and Office of Finance to talk about transferring the data over. So the city w wl be in cononol of mamataining, updating going forwararm, the queueion for us is that office MAY not have
the capacity to to deal with the data itself. So we MAY really be using otc s svices for that assistance. And s s i m scheduling that meeting. Andnd thenm, witit regarar to the cip meeting, um, as soon as I cement that down,e re lookingng a JULY, um, meeting because at s the meeting that, um, was indicated to me that because it s a regular cip meeting. So that would be a Monday, JULY 14th, and it s going to b b held at Rondo.. Or if the 14th doesn t work, then it mayayee AUGUST 11th. So I I any one of you a are able t t attend eititr those two dateses let me know and then I will mark it for invitation. Great. Awesome. Um, thanks for having
me. Did you want to add any of your thoughts from the presentation? Yeah, think the tone that I got from our colleagues was similar tooow we, as the audit c cmittee received it, whichas just apapeciating all the collaboration t tt g gs into a successful audit, but also especially that. Um, yeah, the mapping, t t website, they had as much wowing at that as we did a a apprereation, and I think especiallyhe piece Nia spoke to of it b bng datand informatatn that could be transferred and then continunu to be utilized or manipulated. I personallll found that toe onon of thehe mostaluable
pipies, and it seemed like our colleagues did too, j jt for the fact of any time there s the handoff point,,here can be a sort of that s the timimt valuable. And then all of a a sudden it isn t. Andnd so somemeing that can be m me rable into the future, where wewe cld add another y yr s datata to it or add somomhing else to it or do sometetng else. So I think a l l of t t mes w w see the surface level piece,ut we re not in control of the thing. And so as council members, I mean, and so I think that parartas particularly usefeful. A a I agree. J Jus and thee otc side doesnsn surprise me too much because I m sure it is very technical. Andnd if I tried to describe why I think s technical, I suree
would be ill equipped. Soeaeah. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, soo just wanted to sort of close the loop on that and let folks know that our last audud has been s scessfully reportete on,n, filed, uh, a a is comomete. Whichh brings us to the n nt topic on our agenda,m, which is to select our next topic. And I w wl be the firirsto admit that I think the topic selection process has been a bit, um, clunky. Maybes the right word. It s, it it feelsls like we havenen quiteottenn inin, like a routine o o how we choosese topics.S. Um,n part that s because prior to having Wilder on retainene it always seemed like it took justts much time too find the new consultantnts it did to
identify the new topic. Um, now thatat we have someone who s j jt regular, um,m, I think the the topic selectiti process probably could be routinized a bit. Um, and o o of the thingng that I m hopingg we can m me totowas is having ourur our audits be moreeligned with the interests of the City Cncil, because we are a c comttee of the council. So kind of rathehe an having the a ait committee off over here doing auditit and things that we think are important and that the council has sort of signed offff on through a resololion, itould be, I thinknk greatato have more ininraction with the c Cncililss we choose aopic, um, saying, for example, these are the things we re interested in, b b also hearing. W Wt is the council intererted in so that there s a little bit more
interest in buy in on theheart of t t councilnto what w w re doing? Um,m, I wouldlday again, feel free to to disagree, but it seems to me thatte have a really a council that t s really interestededn critical thinkingg and a alysis and, um,m, is often coming up with thingss that we should we should studydy And a a it happens, we have a committee that c c studydyhose t tngs.S. And so just want t t bee efficient abobo u ung this mmittee as the tool that it s intended to be for things thatt the council already wants to udy, rather than k kd of, again,n,ff on its own. So w wit all of that said, my m m oposal today was that, um, we I don t know if folol have have had the time, butopefully people have had the timeeo
review the ideas that have been prprented in the past,t, um,m,n large form in front of u Thank you Nia. Andnd then also in smaller form, um,rom not just our d dcussions in theheast, but a als froro the internal staff survey and the external communitit survey, goingackks long as we ve had them going, um, and he youou own ideas as to what you think would be a goodexex topic and your o o reasons a a to why. And my hopope wawa that we could t tk about those ideas here and come to a list of, hopefully no more than fifi or so that wee couldldhen present to the Citit Council att their next policy Committee meeting nexex Wednesday, Junune
th. Um,nd get their input. And they MAY have t tally differenen ideas. Um, they MAY lolo one of the oneshat we present and jusus want to go with that. Um, but then b be able come back at our JULY meeting and sayaykay, basas on this input and our ideas a a the council s ideas, this is how we want to move forward. Um, so that s myy thoughts. Um, and that s what I wasas thinking we could d d during our discussion. But I openno other people s ideasas If since, again,n,his process isstill veryryuch inn flux, I think, MR.. Chair, if I MAY,, I l le.E. E idea off our work beieiore aligned with the council and, , what they would like toee
us do.O.Nd I m wondering,,ven ifif, you k kw, would there be opportunities they could leverage audud results in their decision making, youounow, thingsgsike that. If there s big t tops, uh, that they know, ththe ll be, uh, decisions that those w wld bee items for audit. ,omething to think aboutut Um, but yeah, I think that s a gooddea. And, you know, as a piecec of the city council, the audit committtt can help serve that p ppose. Makes a l l of sensnsm. Yeah, that s exactly the. Thaha s exactly right. I I mean, t t the extent that it something that is, w w need to know more a aut this in order to makak a decision to do something else.E. Um, thatt think is the perfectit. MR. Farnsworth. Thank you.. Chair
Nager. Um,o your point, a a I agree with that in terms of it feelsight, um, for this committee to be aligned with the councnc is thinknkg under the committeerr 2025 committee discussionn the topic acker. I thihi, um,m, this would this must have come from when a previous time we were having this conversation, which I think was on the e eve offhe uncil s retreat, o o some sort of retreat that the council w w having. And s s I m wondedengng um, where it says wee promoting picurvey, interesesd in hearing a aut topicss that might come uppt the retreatfhere was anything that either of you couldd add,, um, from that retreat or a any other venue.M, since we last h h this cocoersationon that might be of
terest,, uh, to our topic nversation today. Um, t tnks, MR. Fnsworth. That s a grere question. And it s causing us to have to reach all theheay backcko Februarar to remember.R. Oh, okay. That was a long time ago. No, no, no, no, that t s okay.. Well, b. W We you even, I guess the r rent. Budgett retrtrt, um, I yeaea I d d tt think in scanning there s nothing that popss I io my mind from the recent bududt retreat at is necessarily a clean,, clean audit committee fit. But that might jusus b b t t way I m remembering it. And mostly remembering, bececse I I think thee finincial challengess paint the pnt the color of sort of everytytng the council is consnsering right now, not financiaia challenges, j jt the tighghess ofhe national
state. And like localal financial opportunity. So I think that at in g geral couou be seen as sort of audit focus. But I don n t know that there was ananytngxplicit oththhann st a general. Everyrye e s going to have to be leaea So every department is going to ve too propose trims,hich means everyththin will be underer rutiny. But I might b be wrong. Coununl p Psidede b Ber might remember more. Um, the the I don n ttemember much more. T only two things that come t t mind.M, one was from o o strategicclanning retreat in FEBRUARY. We did talkbout the desire t t do atudy of our,, , our rent stabilization ordinanae. Um, actually, this was in our budgett cycle last yearar w w budgeted $100,000 for aousingng study, wch was
really to study how t t rent stabilization ordinanan is working. Um, for bothenants d landlords and not w wh an m to make masasve amendments, necessarily,y,ut m me operatioiol changes, staffinin changes, maybelight tweaks to the ordinancece itself. But just toto see how is it goingfterer we ve had rentt stabilizatitionn ace for, you know, four years, that was one. And then umum we havavecectly talked out, um, and it s sometimes findinin it,indingng a fit that a a audit. A good audit fit difficult because whehe we re st exploring big picture ideas, that doesn t always seem like auditing s sething that we re alreadyoing. But, um, we did havav aonversation about Comom Zoo, a a its finances and the facthat it
is not it d ds not break even. And it, um, it has become kind of more and moreeliant on the general fund ratheher thann holdldg its own in its own special fund.D. And so there s,s, think, some studyingg n nding to be done about how couldld that operationn become moree revenue utrara orositiviv Um,m, t tse are t t things that I I remememr.. Andd I think we ll in for cocoext, f f addititnal context on theent stabilization study, that as council PRESIDENT M mtionon,hat is fundeded Andnd so a version o o that wilil happen this year, o or at least to my understanding. Um, for whatever it s worth, in loloing through, I m looking at the 20202 packet that Sony just
ndeded out. I think, not shococngly. Uh, anytime you re askiki people what we should addd it, it can veer intolmost like an airing of grievevcess because that sort of an jacece emotion too to whatt we re talking about. So I m notot shocked, but it I I a litite,e, you know,hat is a lot of the trend. I personallll actually think a combination of eight and 44 is kind of interesting. 44 iss about hirinin Saiai Paull residents for Saint Pauau jobs, and then eight is an audud on thee amomot off turnover and the costs related tournover. Um, I think in particular, some of the, u u se of the things in
this list that read like symptoms, I think could bee m me closely related to a causal thinggikee t tnover and or turnover could be a symptom toto b b I think, for e emple, like pressuresbout manager pay v vsus labab pay or l loror relationssr empmpyee treatment oror employee pay, I think all of that, even when that s sws u u as a aingle line item,m, cououe more apppppriately grouped as like a tururverr challenge in gegeral. So I, Io k kdd of lili thehend to be honest with u, I I wl just anecdcdally statat there are a l l of strtron stf thaha I knewururg my timeme a an aidid whoho eititr left then or h he l ltince. And, um, I have anecdotal ideas
aboutthy that might be, but it s nowhere n nr comprehensisi or objbjtive or sysysmic.M, and I don t mind the idede o o the Saintaul Residency piece, bebecae I t tnk peoplee might notully appreciciat the complexity of trying to prioiotize thaha Like, I I ststinually agree with sosothing like thaha I Ihink it woulul be g gatat if we can inceceivize, younow,ur ememoyoysso e ehehe liviv in Saint Paullr to h he f fol w w lili in Saint Paul. But Ihink it sctually muchore complex than peoeoeppreciate trying toto set goals like that orr funding based on thaha u u but see itt as a parar o of sortt of the r rettion or turnoverr piece. U u ort could be
related, but thohose two seeeed, ototr than, you know, I knonow Councici PRESIDENT Baker wouldld waysys love to talk skyways. Anddoohat one is thaha onene s on there too. U Uut I don t know that thehe s anything incrcriblyly interesting or new we wouou learn from that. I cocod be wrongng Um,m, yeaeaust fofory $0.02.Hanks. MR.. Well,e sort of s srteded, um,,ort of s srted diving in, which is great. Um, I think that s a areat segue. So hope atnswered your question too some extent, Mr.R. Edgeworth..Nd ththen um, yeah, I t tnk I d, I d like to open it up and just heareoeoe s thoughts on, uh,h, whatat do youhink we s sulul audit? Andnd it doesn t have to bebe somomhingng that s in a a of these documents. It can be
somemethg thaha you,m, as a cityty empmploe,e, as a a c cmunity advivir, um, just think or h he hearar abobo f fm othths in thehe mmmmitit b b, um, I think the goal would be too getet again, nd of araininormed list going, and dependidi onnow many ideas weave, weeay needd to w wttle it d dn a a ltltl bit. Um,m,ut we dd l le to heaea people s thoughts. If I MAY. MR. McVeigh.Hank y y. Um in an ideal world, the auditit cocoitteeeoeoe t havav thehe staff to doohis, o o coursrse, but we would bee proroblyyoingng an entererisee risksssssmentt fofo thehe city, and weeouldldavav that documumted,, bause h hing sk when wee haveeisk documented, wee can a aually
dedetand what s sorf ciciumstanans or eventnt orr acactities are r rllyyindf materialal t t the operationss of the city as a municipipity.Y. A at p pentitihreats to t tse mamae cominin upp within a a g giv lendareaea I mean, it widelysed I I the w wld o o performamaee ait,,ut I meaea itit ssot requiuid. I mean, gogovement auditingtandards dodon t require I I bututt t ndnd o an I indtryyeses practice. And I would just b b cuous to k kw I thehe anyny informatioio out there from thehe, umum thahat the cityy hasas any o o t t depararenen h prepared, o o even m mbe sosowhereeithin the city uncici where we h hee some o of
thoseeisks dumented.D. Bececse remember was thihi last week or twowo w wksksgogo, mayay there wass a matatte r regding compmpance witithheheatat Pracaccessct..Nd I I think that wawasneneffhe topicsshattasas brbrough up I I h heerorohe cityty c cle..Ndnd that ss someththg t tha could be a mmmmonace issueuen mulplpl dertrtnts iffe e rereot acacallybididi by the tererms of t t Data p Practesct. I I s veve s spletuff like that. And t tt s a sigigficantiskk becauseet just underermiss thehe gogornrnce prosseseshat w w haveerer attityyalal Andnd so that s whehe w we arereaking our to selececon.. Iilll g gdlyy elel t t the othth c cmumuty vivirsrsndnd toheouncncil,
cause ultltatatyeerereere f facitatee y andndourr ovovsighgh o o c cy darartmtsts. UmUm Ieeee thaha ss righthtlly where we a are s sposeddo be. WeWe e reouour agent to doo th a a toacacitateehat ocess.Ut Ioohinke need b b l lkingng a risk w wheve we c can whenn makinin t topic seseleioio jususecausese o o certainn topopss are goioi tooee levantntooisks thaha afffft ththitity. And thehe ss a mumultududf risishatt jusust are f fatatin out t there rhtht nonow, e en inclulungitithe rrenttituation w wh, um, ev federeral a a stata l lel, withth uh,h, cegegicical As d jususthehe c cit ss fininanci
cturur s scecet seliant o on, ,, I intergovememealalraransrsrs betwnn the s stasnd t t fedsds Andndoo I I m rambling a tttt b bit. S I I m g gngngoo D.D. Onhaha n No, I mmoladd youurorohtht tttp,R.R. VeVeh, b bause t tss a crital part o o theheroroce that I c cometelelorgott toay anythiboutut a a thaha we e tataedbobo quitete b bn t the ststhenn we e ve s seltedur pipicsm,m,isssilwowohhndnd MrMr. Lassiter c cated a traiaid us I I o o dififrere kikind of r rk.M,m,ouou k know, I I member h how m manyonththsgo I it wawas. And weeoo h hee,,m,m,oror ofof risk e eluluioio r rubcc tt wewe use.M,he we d t h hee ythihing clo too an e enterise sksk mananagemtsssssmsment.T.Otot thatatnowwf. Ando whahat we
s sor offonon I itete o o that is t u um,ull t tethehe thesesdeas, ususually a app t the sksssssmsmen too thehe too s see ho t tyyould r rk I in tse didierentt c catorors of risisk. Um,, a a thenetetenen use a all of thatat t togherro makak o our decisi. Um,m, s sot s sort o of anan a after t factt asssssmsmt o riri ratr tt s since w donon tt vevehatt foror o onn the frontnt enen w whi I is n notheightht way to doo it,,omompletelgreeee wiwithou,,utut is d dininitely aatep inn the pross.Nd it s one comomplelyy forgot to meion. So I appppciatat you.. SoSodayy dnn the linee wan ge sometethi t toorkk towowds.. Rhapss 100%.%. W c can a ait o o nn lkkff havggnn enenterpse r risk m magagemt.T. This c cldld beeururnedn.Ts
inde o o I itsff so mucuch,m,m, anan you,, MR. Lasastete Did uu hee a a y Yeah, w wasoioi toayay c cldld shahare my. Y Yh,h, uh, l list.O h hav u I I ththkkhehe ask was to have yr top t thr,, and s I I chowo ththat were on thehe lists u um, thateeave,e, a o that I didndn tt s onn the.. U Um,utut onm, kinind o w was mentioned ababouthehe hirggroroce and,, um, turnoverndndm,m, y you c use turveve t to seeee howow w wl our hiring proce is w working. ,, a j jus wonondering, youou knowow,haha itt looktt t efefciciencyff tirirgg ocesess.Ssttonsisient
across c cit deptmenents Is it compliant w wit u allfhehe reiriremtsts? A, u y yea HoHow I I I doing? Um, a f as atattrioionndnd is there goal h hiraintntauaul r rididts in ciosositnsns? Et cetera. Um, the s secdd one w about da rereeststs. S t to kwwisisoioint about t the Daractctes Actct, um, it d dss see likike the iss anncrereas innatataeqeqstst I believe the city I y you kno we can probably v verify this as partrtf t theududit u looking atat are w we getng a a higher vomeme of da r reqstss? Are mo,, uh, r resources I I c city
ti being use t to respondoo them?Ndnd is thehere need to changege t proroce t to make I morere efficnt andespoponsiv toto these increasgg nbeber of requeststsnd tn finally, the new one that s notot m mentioned onn hehere It MAY, b did tteeee was aut sidewksks. A And I also t thought swaways abobo,, u th u um,owow I m maintenance prioioritizedorididewks?? Are th Ada compliant? Is I it meinin t thoeqequirements? Uh, how o our decisions to bui n onones madad you know, is it equitable to, u uh, d different arareas?Ss trere, um,h,h,
ththoughts about which ones a,, uh, sww cleared in t winter? Ii don t kww h how much, uh, I I m suppodd if I I s a city proptyty, the c cityss doing ththat, butosos o of I is pratate.Ndnd, um, you know, is that is tha wkiki?? Wel um, Iususthihink, you know, sidewalks,kykyysys are s impoanantororobobility of our citinsns. Q Qlility ofifif connectivity to p places in the mmmmunit u y you know, rereauaurants, uh, your work, uh, seseeing seeing people, um, so that wasyy oerer tugug. GrGreat. Thank you, MR. Ctetello.
Atat is that I I r really helpful. Dd Iavave a numrr of thougss on tho,, but I want to hold back. Yeah. U u,, oerers. MR. Farnsworth. Thank you. Chair, I ll just say thaha som a a f few that sodod out to me,m,m, prararily from tss topic tracking, uh,prpreadsheet aiain, u t that several folks have touched o on, um, the companance withhehe Data Practices a Act given r recen events and that we ve been talking about this top f for a whe.E. The submission by the by the d deputy mayor, I thi,, continues to be, um, relevant. Um, and t then, u uh, s jus admiededly, m sitting down ghght befor t this meeti,, uh, theosost recentuguggestion w reiviv,, um, from a resident,
it looks like, um, on j JUNE 4th, 2025 around right track. Uh, th r rightrara progr.. Um, being, uh,amililiar wit t the rightrarack program mysel u Um, justrorom the outsi and admingng it a lot. And what it does for um, youth workforce in the city ofaiaint Paul. And impact has a large impact. U Um, just thinking thinkgg abo our risk assessment and what, um, how what p partneripips exist in the s structure of aff a workforce p program like that? I m certain s seeing that there could be some risk, uh, there inhentnt there. And, a,, um, would be curio to see what the right track folks would thin about that. U Um, because, of course, um, as we ve talked about in the past, want the audit committee to be working
in partnership wh,h, um, whatever, um, party would be subject to the topic. So, um, again, just seeing that for the first time, this meeting, um, atat pique m my iererest. Uh, anan t then that, uh, previous committee discussion topic arou districtououncils,m,m, that I think council, um, Vic PRESIDENT Kim had spoken to previously as well. Um, think there s a lot of a lot of risk within the district cncncil system. I know there s there have been a staff, um, transiti I in terms of the, uh, I don t know, the position tititle offhand anymore, but the city liaonon, uh, tohehe district councils, um, so I know we ve talked aboutnn our risk modeling in the past, transition, um, can often be a
good time to look at that. Um, I know it s a topic that s been looked at in the past. Maybe not necessarily from this lens, but there s been a variety of studies on district couilils, and I just I think it continues toto, um, for a number of reasons, be a topic that wldld be worth o time looking at. Um, and then I certainly don t disagree with, with other, um, topics that we ve talked about so far. Um, I think we re in a good spot where there s a lot of possibilities, um, that we re. Not. Gonna run out. No. Right that we could go towards. So, um, not necessarily the top three order, but those are
things that, um, stuck out to me, uh, in preparing forhihis conversation. And then, uh, what, based on your earlier answer, the Como Zoo is actually really intriguing to me. And and now i m interested in learning more about municipal zoos and or all that stuff because I really, honestly, not even really thought about that before, but, um, now thinking about it, since you mentioned it, um, I certainly think there s a lot there in terms of risk and, and, um, it being a concrete topic that we could look at. So thank you. One thing I ve learned since the presentation is that there are very few municipal zoos that are free. Mm. Interesting. Very few, um,
all right. Um, this Dilworth go ahead. And, you know, I was looking at, um, some of the things we had talked abo in the past, I guess, and I was curious about the chief budget officer and, uh, that person being hired. And then would we look at the things we had talked about? Um, before, because we had a whole lot of discussion about the Joint Powers Agreement, and we put that on hold. Um, the district council s another one. Um, so I guess I m kind of in terms of, uh, the risk factor, looking at some of the financial risk, um, though I think the Ada, um, compliant, uh, that, uh, was brought up is, uh, something that also has a carries a high
risk for the city. So, um, I would I would be more inclined to look at the, the chief, you know, the, the fees and then the, the contract. Um, and then the, uh, the sidewalks and, and their compliance.. Great. Okay. Yes. Thank you. I would say to, um, I would also add my support for the Data Practices Act. I think people would be absolutely astounded at the scale of not just the number of requests, but how much an individual requests might require. I used to walk into, like, a city staff person s office when they were working to fulfill a request and
literally have paper waste high on every single wall in the room. And it was a single request from a single individual from one point in time. And that was like weeks and weeks of compiling, scrubbing, synthesizing, sharing of like that, even if it s not physically printed. That s the visual to have in your head of an individual request at an individual point in time. Um, so I think and I would also note, too, that the fact that I believe our city clerk has not just Deputy Mayor Tinker, but I believe our city clerk has previously mentioned that as well. Um, so I would just I because I didn t speak to it in my first one, I would echo strong, strong support for
that being a topic. Can I ask a question? Sure. Yeah. Of course. So I, I get the frustration because of course, the University of Minnesota gets hit with data, practice data, um, compliance or not get hit with it. But they also they get requests all the time. So I guess my question when we talk about it from a risk standpoint, is the risk the time that the person has has to take, is it that we re trying to change the the Data practice Act? What would if we put that on a risk scale, what would that look like? I guess. Because it s not a financial I mean, in time, you know, there s a fine. Um, so there s a there s a time element, um, there s a financial element in
terms of maybe, uh, the documents that they have to pull. But what does that really look like when we look at other things for risk? I guess I would just challenge the committee to think about. Um. Well, I ll. I ll take one shot at it, and I that s a that s a good way to question the topic. I appreciate asking it in that way. I would say it s a combination of the things you said. So I think on one level there s an incredible amount of time spent across basically every single department gets hit with like two. Well, apologies for reusing that phrasing, but um is required to spend a tremendous amount of time because requests can either be based on individual department or enterprise wide, or focused on the city council, or focused on the mayor or whatever. But every department.
So yeah, the time and time and money, um, is, if not a risk, just something that impacts city operation. I think people wouldn t appreciate how much. And I I m, I fully understand the need, you know, for transparency and fully support the need for transparency. But I don t think people would appreciate that actual city services are impacted in the need to fulfill the requirements of this. So time, time and money and then how that impacts actual, um, resources, but also the fact that the way I believe the reason, for example, our city clerk would have this on here as well as the deputy mayor, is that then the process by which they re fulfilled has to be
that has to be designed. And, um, structured. And I think because there are changes or staff turnover or changes in how the state is, um, implementing the statewide rules, for example, I think those over time mean that you re sort of building the thing as it goes, and then the system isn t perfectly centralized, or I believe our city clerk actually plays like the central role in processing these. And then it flows out. And so, for example, is it traditional in a city this size for that one individual woman to have to do, you know, that kind of thing? Um, so the staff time, how it s structured and then obviously, you know, the recent case does mean there s
some legal risk in the way just because it s, um, I don t want to blow anyone s mind, but no one s doing a data request, like, out of the, you know, just for fun. There s usually a reason. Um, so just as someone who s had to be the subject of many, many, many data requests. Yeah, but. I agree. The process we re looking at them is that what is it, the process. Because I don t think they re going to go away. So that s what I m trying to understand. Yeah I think because we need to prepare for Wilder for sure. We need to narrow it way down as to what that looks like. Um, because, yeah. I think it would be process. Yeah. To put it short in a short answer. MR. Francois. Well, thanks. Tony.
Occurred just to get at the risk question. I believe in several of these. And then just, um, and other reporting. There s a compliance question. Right. And that s the risk. Yep. I think I think that gets at the heart of the risk is, um, compliance was mentioned in both of these, um, submissions. So that s what I would say as well to that. Well, I would just personally say only for myself. I know the group MAY not agree with this. We re talking a lot about risk in terms of the reason to study this, but I would actually really appreciate the cost and scope and impact of this to just be more visible as well. Like I, I think I have a decent understanding of how and and
how big and how much this happens just from having to be in City Hall. But even I could not possibly tell you, like what the comprehensive amount of like hours staff hours spent on this would be like if we added it up across the city. And I think knowing the scope of that is helpful just for people to have an appreciation of this is what it means when, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I also, I care about the risk in managing the risk and reducing the risk. But I also think part of our function as an audit committee is helping to visible sort of how the city operates and how it could be improved. So I think even knowing the scope and the scale in and of itself, aside from the risk, is actually really
valuable. Yeah, I, I appreciate the what s been said in the question because I think the risk of doing this particular topic is that it could easily become, um, sort of whiny, for lack of a better word. And, um, I think you re right, Miss Dilworth. The Data Practices Act isn t going anywhere. And as much pain as it is to us to fulfill it, the public has a right to know. That s the reason for it. And that s the nature of the work we do. So I would be interested from a, um, I think making it visible is sort of a byproduct of doing this, but I would be interested in it more from a first of all, are we complying? Because sometimes I hear we re not and see we
re not. And um, what does what is the workload to the end of how could we do it more efficiently. Not, you know, look how much work this is for us. Please stop making these data requests because, um, to your point, MR.. People making data requests are not, um, really super motivated by how much work it is for us to not make their data requests that might, um, make them more likely to make their data requests. So, um, so yeah, I would I think that s a really important angle of it to point out. Um. Um, I think we ve heard. Well, has anyone not? And MR. McVay, I know you said you defer to us, but I really encourage you not to do that because, um, your voice is, well, new, just as valid as ours. And if there are things
that jumped out at you or from the community. I would say I would differ. Chair. Um, it s. How I put it this way. Um, I think there s a lot of value in terms of looking at the Data Practices Act, how the city is complying with state statute, and how the program itself records management and how, um, complying with data practices requests that they are, um, structured generally because, uh, there s certain parameters set out in state law. Right. But in practice, there s going to be internal policies and decisions that are going to
guide how, um, actors are actually complying with that law. And so I wouldn t I wouldn t say I m necessarily, um, opposed or any in any sense because, um, I just think that, um, something like the Data Practices Act is, is very important. And just because from the perspective of open government and encouraging public trust, because I think the folks on the city council and the folks that work, the 3000 plus people that work for the city, by and large, are wonderful people, and they re very committed to public service. And that, um, being
able to go in and actually look at how we re managing our records and complying with the Data Practices Act, is demonstrative of our commitment to being transparent with the public and also looking at where we can make improvements to the program itself. And, um, Stephanie, I actually also would concur with you in, uh, the what was presented to the Budget Committee. Uh, regarding, uh, uh, fee recovery as well. And so, um, I m not strong. I don t have a strong opinion because I feel of my role here is to facilitate because ultimately it s going to come to the council to
decide whatever is recommended to them. And so, uh, on that note, I just want to make sure that we are looking at things that generate value, right, that we re able to strengthen the internal controls and improve operational efficiency and effectiveness. Because that s the point of why we re here. So on that note, I will I will stop yapping. Well that s great. Um, well, let me throw my three into the mix. And then we have to decide how to decide. Um, so I also put data practices, asks, um, both because we talked about it before. Also, I thought it was interesting that this came both from the administration and the
council side. Um, so we ve talked a lot about the importance of buy in and interest and that that s rare that we have something that s that both sides are interested in. Um, I also put the and i was loathe to do this a little bit, but the, the housing study that we started with a previous consultant, um, did not go anywhere, which was supposed to basically study the process from the time that a housing development is proposed until construction concept to construction, all the different steps they have to go through, how much time it takes working with pd and dsi and how we could streamline that. That study didn t go anywhere. Um, largely due to the consultant. Um, but it
s still a need. And building more housing is definitely still a priority. Um, especially in this difficult climate of financing construction. So we you know, to me, it seems especially relevant that we not create barriers on the city side by being difficult to work with or cumbersome. Um, since there s enough other barriers on the outside. Um, and I think that was something that was still really interesting, interesting to our planning and economic development team and our director, Newton. It was just that we couldn t get things going with the consultant. So there was already some natural buy in there. And then finally, um, this was not on any of our list. We haven t talked about it before, I don t think, but
our neighborhood Star grant process has came up. Um, this year we went to the legislature to try to get some changes to statute to allow us more flexibility in how our neighborhood star process works. The reason for that was because, again, coming from Director Newton, it s become clear that it is a very time intensive process to make, um, these grants to neighborhood businesses, organizations, um, it she has said that it takes a lot of her economic development team s time just to administer this one program. Um, and obviously, there s a lot of other things that we need to be doing in terms of economic development that aren t just one grant program. So, um, it did not the changes didn t pass
in the legislature. So it still mandates exactly how big the board has to be and etc.. But, um, that s actually kind of separate from the nature of the program itself and how and whether it s working as intended and how much time it s taking. Um, so I put that out there as well as another the risk there is just the opportunity cost of staff time that is being diverted to this program. I yeah. Council PRESIDENT, I m really glad you mentioned the, um, the housing piece, the sort of from start to finish. What is the process, what could be improved. You know, we re not the only city in the world where buildings have to go through a process.
I, I continually I, you know, one of my silly things, I repeat all the time is like anytime we think we re the first city to deal with something, it s just so there s so many times where we, like, act like we re the first city that s had to build a bike trail or like develop housing or whatever. And it s like every city in the world does this. We can we don t need to invent a new way to do this, their best practices. So I really appreciate you mentioning that I would I think that the Data Practices Act and employee retention and turnover would be my personal top three, for whatever it s worth. Okay. Of all of the scope. Why don t we do okay. Here s my suggestion. First of all, has everyone shared their ideas?
Are there any other ideas that have not been put on the table that people would like to put on the table? I have one more please. I kind of am interested in, uh, Kalamazoo because that s an enterprise fund. So ideally it would be self-sustaining. And so, um, but that s just the that s my, um, uh, nerdy side of speaking a little bit, but. The audit committee is not at all nerdy, so you are in the wrong place. Just kidding. But. Um. Most municipal zoos, as you mentioned, MADAM Chair, they do charge fees for to users to actually visit. And, uh, uh, use that space, that facility.
And so not that, uh, necessarily that s a policy decision that was made by the council some time ago. And so, um, not maybe that would want to be that MAY want to the council MAY want to, uh, look at that perhaps as part of that kind of a topic. Um, just the funding structure. But um, it would be important to make sure that it doesn t in any way affect the accreditation for Kalamazoo, because there are standards that the aza prescribes for all, um, public zoos in the United States. So, um, that s a little bit I digress, though, so. Thanks, MISTER McVeigh. Um, I appreciate that. And, um, yes, actually, it was interesting when we were talking about
that, we were talking about the possibility of charging for non-residents versus residents of the city, since 85% of those who visit the zoo don t live in Saint Paul. Um, 84%, actually, I think it s down slightly. Um, and apparently because it is a regional park, um, it is not allowed. We are not allowed to charge different amounts for residents, non-residents. Um, but that led, of course, to the next question, which is what s the benefit of it being a regional park, given that that s one of the constraints that it places on us? Um, that s a significant downside. What are the benefits? So there s more to explore there for sure. Um, but any other ideas that haven t been mentioned yet that people want
to put on the table? Doesn t look like it. Okay. My suggestion is that MISS Van read the ideas that we ve said. If you have them. I ve been keeping it a laundry. List or. Okay, I did combine all the kind of air related stuff like employee retention, turnover, equity regarding salary and pay rate difference between that. Okay, before you start, don t read them yet. Um, but before you start reading them. So you ll read the list and then, um, listen and think about what your top five would be, because I think the goal would be to have five that we recommend.
And then when this is done, um, we will hear everyone s top five. And then I think we should be able to get to, um, the ones that we are going to recommend. Does that. Just to be just to be clear, the eventual decision is to choose one, right? Yes. And the thinking was that we could bring five to the council who could weigh in. Um. My only $0.02 would be all due respect to myself and the full council. I think providing five if we re only choosing one is actually too wide of a. Scope. I would say. I would. Say. I don t know if 2 or 3 or whatever, but I think five is almost telling them that whatever goes telling
us. So I would recommend, I would suggest a smaller list, Okay. For whatever. Three. 3234I would suggest. 22233. Um, okay. Well, given that the council can add their own ideas, maybe two.. Okay. Okay. Um, yes. With all respect to the council, that likes choice. Yeah. Um, okay. So as you re listening, think about your top two. Okay. Okay. So as I said earlier, I m combining all the air related stuff and I would repeat myself employee retention turnover kind of equity regarding pay rate and salary between frontline supervisors. Um staffing. And then the second one is data practices, um compliance. And
then we can develop more scope on that. Um, the third that we re revisiting is the housing study. Uh, with regards to development and the process regarding constructions. Um, from timeline from beginning to when it gets, um, implemented. And then, um, the other ones, neighborhood star Grant and then fee recovery, uh, Joint Powers agreement, the right track program, and then the district council. Did I MISS Anything else? Ingrid Como zoo. Zoo. Okay, that s all I had. Let s see. Okay. All right. Do people have their two? Okay. And then we had the sidewalks.
Oh. And sidewalks. Oh, yeah. Sidewalks. Skyway sideways. For for for whatever it s worth, most of the sidewalk questions I think I anecdotally know, and I have in my brain like a sidewalk presentation from a long time ago that s definitely outdated but exists. Um, so just for whatever it s worth, because I m the biggest sidewalk nerd on planet Earth, so I uniquely always have it up here. But every single question you raised I care about. But I think theoretically the answers exist. Even if I don t agree with the answer. Okay, okay. And I believe Jeremy had indicated with regards to the sidewalk sideways, Skyways has to deal with Ada compliance.
Um, so. Okay, I apologize, I missed that one. It s clearance and equity for new ones. Go. Okay, so we have one, two, three, 456789 ten. We have ten topics okay. All right. I think we should just go around and say our. Top two. Um, okay. Who wants to start. If we have to do two instead of three, I would choose the data practices and the housing and development process. And they would be it s a tight, tight break, but I would drop the the air retention and would be just below those two for me. So top two would be data practices, housing development. Process. Okay okay. I ll go next. MR.. I can go everyone s. There.
Actually the the same ones, uh, housing study and data practices. MISS Dilworth. Um, I was the housing studies and the district councils. MR. McPhee. Data practices act, and. Um. Probably the housing study as well. Um, the Data Practices Act and district councils., and I was at a practices and hiring process and turnover. Um. Sad little solo me okay. So that looks like it s data practices and housing process as the two top vote getters. Um, however, I think we should keep all ten of these, keep a list of all ten of these, because that s going to be our, um, that should be the basis of our next
list to come back to. And, um, and I if I think what we should do between now and the council meeting is, um, try to put both the housing process and the Data practices through that risk assessment rubric that we have, um, and, and then present both that and the idea when we present it to the council. So it s not it s not independent of that. Um. Does that sound like a plan to folks? Okay. So i just want to confirm data practices and housing development process are the two topics that we re, according to the council, to vote on a final study. And in the meantime, I m going to put together those two topic ideas under a risk assessment. Uh, apply that
rubric to it. Yeah. And I think, um, depending on, you know, we re not talking about a ton of time between now and a, a week from tomorrow. I MAY need to. Flesh out. Um, yeah. I mean, if you re if you re able to do a rough job and send that around, maybe to the rest of us to give input on, I think people here would be happy to help, you know, flesh out what the different. I m going to try my best on Thursday. And Friday, I apologize. No, no, no, we re all off on Thursday and that makes a lot of sense. So let s do our best. Um, okay. And then, um, I think we should we ll also open it up to the council for other ideas. So just in case these are not, um, these don t get chosen. There MAY be other ideas that come out to, um. Great. Okay, last but not least, community
engagement update, MR. Farnsworth. Thank you. Chair Nager. Very briefly, um, we, uh, the the committee has continued to, do community engagement. There s kind of two administrative rescheduling items we need to work through. Um, with two districts, district seven and district ten. And the district ten. One was for tomorrow. Um, but, um, we ll work on those internally. So expect communication about that. Um, and, and uh, district seven is Frogtown Neighborhood Association. District ten is Como. Um, and then uh, just saying again, for the record, as I always do, that, uh, the committee continues to be available for engagement opportunities. And please reach out via the audit committee website if you re interested in
studying something up. Excellent. All right. Thank you so much, MR. Farnsworth. As always. Um, anything else to come before us? It looks like we are at the end of our agenda, and we are at perfect timing, MR. Farnsworth. Sorry, sorry, just. I meant to ask this earlier, but I know there was, um, back in MAY. There was, uh, conversation about evaluating, evaluating while there, and I guess I never heard. So I m assuming that we have moved forward with, ah, um, renewing while contract. I m working with the city attorney s office and Wilder to, um, review and amend our existing contract to extend for an additional two years. Or maybe, I think, three years that we had originally. Agreed to and that was following, I
think, an ask to all of us for our evaluation and feedback. And if anyone had concerns. If I m honest, we all receive one feedback. Um. And it was resoundingly positive. It was my assumption, otherwise we wouldn t be renewing. So based on that, I took it as a majority, um, response to move forward with Wilder. Great. Okay. All right. Uh, with that, we adjourned. Thanks, everyone.