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? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? It would behoove us to get a little bit more information about a lot of or topics. So we spent the last month doing that and I'm going in a moment number 2, Mr. Mafay to share more about what we learned and how we did that engagement. I believe all of the council members were engaged in different parts different conversations with different department directors and then we also got feedback from midst misprint Dr. Brett, as to her thoughts on the different but we heard and what she thinks might be most viable before we dive in. I also want to clarify something for the record. misstated element of the college bound program at the last meeting. And I just want to be really clear that the program is not it is automatic enrollment. So student children as soon as they're born are automatically enrolled in the program. Parents then have the option

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to add additional dollars to the program or participate other ways. But it is automatic enrollment. So I just wanted to mke sure that that was clear for the record and apologies to the department for having had that. The stated last time. Want to make sure we're accurate here at this table with that and the 10 things over Mr. Mafay too. Tell us more about what we've learned. So thank you. Madam Chair. I will try to give Cliff notes to all I realize there's a going on here and I don't know. I'm really sorry we sent this out in this format. Honestly. I mean, works. Miss Vang was very supportive. How this all put together by allies. It's a lot to digest in a very short period of time. I will start off with council members. Thank you for working with myself and with t make the interviews with department heads possible with their program management staff. General, I'm gonna give you that. 36,000 foot level overview our interviews we can get into weeds with each individual department, all 4 departments, interest in the work that we're doing at the audit committee. However, there is some hesitation generally to undergo on it. Anthony, as this calendar year. that was unfortunate expressed by all or

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departments that interviewed a lot of it to the timing. For one thing, there's been transition. Several departments have Department heads. There's also concern about available staff resources to triage with us this week. the sites happening said it's actually happened to be significant of a lift for them work doing all the work ourselves. And then there's also the question about data utility king open. We further details on that with some of the department's special that that he had signed particular. They all generally expressed preference for a latter half of 2027. That being said, do have the arc in conversation with MS van last week. There need our waste her in terms of how we scope our questions, which we tried to do this, you'll see and the research questions that we propose, these are just to facilitate conversations are not actually end. All be all this point in time. Circle back. The. In terms of the latter. Have 2027. I actually think recently as well that we can do audits yet this year for some. As long as we frame research questions in a certain way, you can sign for instance, like The Office of Financial Empowerment, questions that they had And no council Johnson, you can speak to this as well. Equity in terms of their outreach to the

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public because thing and agree that there are the need to improve on that and that there's a lot of people that don't know about that particular program. College town. >> And also in a whole range of things dsi as well. We completed unbeaten that such massive department that being said. I don't have much more add over general. Some all departments we can't discuss individual departments. I imagine conversation that's want to go through each. Research question. Why am I line item? I will add. As while. One just minor clarification. Madam Chair, we have not heard back yet fall from Doctor R Costing you basically at this point we have a very rough idea where we're ging to be in terms of cost for these audits. But she we haven't gotten a specified dollars spent in a long time. He was kind of like a rough estimate. She didn't have time look at. I imagine she can get back to us. So it is to so. With that being said, Madam Chair, I defer back. Thanks so much for both that summary and also support to this would probably be helpful hear from those of us who were part of the different conversations. And we have things to add. >> What you just shared again, as you mentioned, we have very, very comprehensive summaries in front of us that

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might help folks wrapped their heads around it to hear from any any reflections or suggestions or insights that council members or anyone else it's just is still worth. You did not participate in the conversations with Summaries that we would share from conversations either my colleagues wants to start >> Yeah, I participated college town discussion and appreciate the kind of hearing from the director not only just some of the program he says, but where they're currently have. And just getting clarification. One of the things that I kind of ship with them as well as at the spotty, really considered that topic as part because it came up and some of them discussion and conversation we had with him here and they just shared with us just at this time, you know, the they also kind of sure what the mayor as well. It doesn't appear that that. That they felt very strongly that this would be necessarily helpful to their program or full, really just overall there in a place where they're even doing their own really valuation work as we speak because the program is getting too kind of it's it's point in time where they can actually go through and do some of this work. And so just even in the questions, you know, specifically was like with this be like helpful, be

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committee brought this up. >> And I kind of got a that they didn't have tey didn't have really strong feelings that it would be. I mean, looked my colleagues for the discussion, but my kind of take away from it was more so that. That's not that there wasn't really. didn't feel that there was much to really offer to the audit process. And so it just didn't. I left feeling that this wasn't necessarily the route to go and that the conversations that they had shared even with the administration was predominantly that they were in decent spot right now on the program. They were reviewing things as they spoke, but that the team itself. wasn't going to be as active or helpful as you might want them to be. If this brought up as a topic. The Yeah, I had I think we had a pretty similar conversation with public works. they're one of the dpartments that scene, not just the leadership but leadership come and that was not produce a part of the department's I think care. You know. Similarly are asking a lot of the same questions and are undergoing their own. And in question. But types of questions and undergoing their own internal evaluations and decision-making around how to get things on the department. You obviously, I thinon lake with college bound. Public

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works for him and he's been around for a very long time. And so there's probably a limit to how much can change under any individual directors. So maybe that's right, even for going forward anyway. But it was very similar in that. I think that the different was concerned about to put processees when they're already in the midst of Doing some of this analysis about a lot of staff time going into this They want it going into their proxies that are being designed to work and into the questions that they want answered. Idefinitely walk away feeling like. Some of the conversations we've had or public works will be really valuable for not a topic down the road, but that this timing did not feel like the right time. And I ink that that was a shar perspective amongst those were in that meeting. Thank you to both. I can share. I was both the Dsi at conversation and District Council Farm conversation and I think that both departments started in a similar place. Want to hear my colleagues say started reticence. I would say 2. But lots of reasons why this is a good time. Dsi has been a to be much the case that Polly is the new innovation there and that we think there is a general agreement among all of us in the conversation that we should not touch anything it

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has Polly because it is literally just being rolled out and there's just It's too soon to tell how that is doing. And can certainly to compare that over previous iterations would really be apples and oranges. So. Giving Pali some time to get started at least a year. We discussed seems prudent. We did. However, talk about a number of questions that could be asked and answered without now without waiting for Poly. One interesting question that came up was this idea of. The the perception of Dsi is work with businesses and permitting versus the reality and how a few. Really bad experience is really bad. Permitting process is can color the rest of how people perceive the department and how the department is seen generally to engage. And we went down the road a little bit of time asking, you know. Should be interrogate. Those small, number of examples where things went really badly and try to figure out what went wrong because if the risk is so outsized for the few that go very wrong, then it was really it would there be huge impact of just making sure that whatever those things are that went wrong, don't go around and in the future, there might be a some Holly connection with those obviously are some things that Kelly might help with, but it didn't seem so tonight, the

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overlap with so complete that you couldn't look at those cases learn something from them even now. And then there was also a potential question about outdated license ordinances that aren't in alignment with state law. This could definitely be something that would be study could be study. Now where have where our ordinance is no longer in alignment. What's the impact of having these out of ordinance is and what should be changed? So those are 2 sort I think they're both in the summary that you have here. But those are 2 that's to that to me really interesting. Topics that could be studied now. And then for the conversation PD about the district councils there was a general consensus that because each district council is so different really be talking about adding district councils themselves, individual district councils, all of them because it would be difficult to audits. APD staff's interactions with district councils and understand much about the situation given how different they Given that we we sort of landed on some questions related The fact that we have contracts with district councils, but we don't often we don't necessarily have we don't know if our valuation of those contracts is still aligned with our expectations of district councils because the system was created in the 70's looking at whether or not we

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are still measuring performance in the way that we expect performance to So for example, not just how many people are engaged, but who was engaged for the people who are engaged, representative of the community how do district councils evaluate their own work? How do we know if they're effective? How do they know if they're effective? What do we want engage meant to look in today's day and age, you know, compared to maybe when they started the 70. So there are a lot of interesting questions there that again. Even though we do have a new director of the department, she's been a deputy director for of time. She's served in the city Council office for some time. So it's not so much change in that direct department that I think and district councils obviously have been around for a long time that that would too fresh and too raw to to audit. So couple of things And then lastly, I can just share Director Brent character, Dr Brits, e-mail to us. She said it took a look at the Post next round of topics. Definitely suggest were times in the college town topic given the likely change is coming up and the potential for considering at leader in scope of the 3 remaining topic areas, it looks like the District Council Farm Business licensing and building code

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operations might be the 2. Most optimal choices for the next round that also have staffed by openness to change as a result of the study. I think this treatment and study would be critical, but it appears the public works and the streaming division might have better openness for the study selected for future consideration. That being said any of these 3 singer, the immediate consideration by committee. got our full. It's recommened 337-8113. The council choose to. Look to this All of us for open discussion. Suggestions, reflections. Share what's in front of us. Bt Mister and thank you. >> Another musher stuff like worker thank the 10 point that I just want to share story of a vet. I love reshape don't need. Spark and it's for some of it. I do appreciate the thoroughness as always. comes with of the and I would say of the folks that are here for your work specifically. thank you for getting I just Pay attention to. You know, just some of that cost estimate 2 for each of them make sure that it culd be helpful to have. balance there. But I think from what I'm hearing, you know, I I don't have any reason to recommending. College fund at this time personally. so I would offer data suggested. That's all the rest of the 3 except for that

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one. I'm sorry. >> thank you. Back in with Councilmember Johnson just folks at If you're a very interesting us looking taking a second look at the maybe like 2 years time, but definitely right now, it's not yet time and honestly, was just looking back at my notes from back in June. Again, the only there ws never any mention about college twn in survey that we have a residence or in our survey that we have for city staff and only came up separate times at district councils and just in passing. I think in terms interest in the community. I think that there are. Topics far more timely college town right now. I think really interesting look at them, though, and say perhaps. Have time resources. sorry. I think that's great ruffle. I feel very good about dropping college bound. >> make sure I'm understanding. So there's this the district wants or from question for PD that some very clear, then there's 2 potential separate qestions for Dsi one around that. Small handful of a negative cases and one around sort outdated We're going regulations as that. >> Yes, those are going to come up in the conversation. I think that what district they did few to flee was then take those ideas and even further

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elaborate on them. So that really any one of these numbers could become many of these could be coming audit topic. >> So what we're really presenting to the council, 3 bucket chart, 3 buckets, large buckets within which we would trying to gauge what people are most interested in and then scope something even more specifically than that. But yes, to your point, there's there's numbers of audits within each of us. Yah. And that case. So if the bucket so the city in forward are PT Dsi public works. Do that, I would then recommend to the council before. Yes, I and PD I feel like public works does not feel is right at this point. But again, we have just 3 and then we can hear it. friendships. Rest a little better then. Does the council have any input in how we narrow dsi and or if it were split multiple? Yes, we would essentially bring these back to the council. We talk to our colleagues about what flavors within each of these are most interesting if there's consensus that develops. A nation essentially a little bit. I will say, I think that building code operations and struck remind me of. I think that was the one that was. didn't talk about that very extensively. And I think that might have because it had a lot to do with Madam Chair,

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part of the reason we didn't get into as much detail building code for 2 reasons because a poly. >> And the because of that. if you recall man, but there was mention ongoing litigation dsi and potential. Ramifications that topic, that particular we have to frame essentially basically. If you conduct a performance audit. To be fair, this is my professional opinion. We are the legislative branch. That's problem. executive branch. So at the end the day, we have that discretion to in terms of forming on the pn, how skull part on topics that again, we're very everybody. We have a very clever process and I think is actually beneficial to everyone involved. And so I'm always amenable to. To work with executive with those kinds of concerns within reason. And the system within reason. Remind the committee that as well. So ay of the litigations to some of their lives to a size peas and so that we would really need to avoid fees. >> Generally looking at that because, well, some things are litigation. They really need to stay as they are. But yes, the if you look at page to building Code response times and efficiency, a lot of what the building code came down, too, because we don't we don't actually. >> Affect the building code

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that's determined by the state when it was really about was our inspections are. Property, code enforcement. And again, so much of that is going to be changing with colleagues that it just felt like. It didn't make sense to evaluate that licensing. On the other hand, while also leaves Poly was there were additional questions that could be asked Justice Ali specifics, especially again, going back to some of those like worst-case scenarios. That feltz. Madam Chair. >> Director Sean mention that and I'm trying remember one the name of one of her. Senior managers at Dsi. But he raised really excellent point that be really nice to look at how we're aligning our regulatory stance, especially because we have responsibilities with over 300 different licenses here in Saint Paul. I did not know we have that money. I was quite surprised to hear that. seeing how we're aligning those actually with Steve Sanders also seeing any reason to update the legislative code in particular with regards to these licenses because some of these buses licenses may be rather antiquated. Just want to bring that up as Just come back to my memory. So >> a and yeah, and I'm like most about its that would actually be a legislative. And we can take as a result of what wouldn't hoping that the

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administration does something with what we found. We could actually act on that council. I'm general comfort the idea of moving forward District Council reform. Business licensing and then. >> And it his home in building. Could operations as well. and this I try just now is that that help a little bit? It kind of seems like more came down to business licensing after we have a conversation and looks like it's 2 topics. I think that only be 2 topics will be. Advancing if we limit Yeah. Can I ask to come to actual question? Because regarding? So I guess like the current public works. I think that I understand some of the hesitation guess. I am wondering just like. That they share kind of. A little bit about. Why not now? You Iam curious, just kind a little bit more because a couple more things about that meeting just because of how. Long they've been doing the work. And while they are somewhat impacted by probably not to the extent of where of the questions beans I was just wondering a little bit more. Tell him have again to that, although survey definitely I'll stick with it. think their concerns, nothing piloted just that they. Barber felt strongly that they were in the process of themselves doing a lot of this valuation, determining what are best practices the crash or. >> And so think my impression

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a strike rate This is not yours, but more concerned being duplicative and taking up additional staff time. So I don't think it's in the and move forward with this. I just. agree that i they're asking the exact same questions just on a different timeline. It might not be as fruitful some other paths, but skin in this game. Still. To make your eye. It's interesting because when we got a different response from. And blinking and we just did that, I did with last year and they were looking at. You know, kind of the same. You know, they're doing their own internal thing. And when we came in to talk about doing audit, we partnered with them and it came out to be a very good. Parks and libraries I think it could be framed differently. Because we wouldn't come in and be duplicative. We come in and actually partner with them and actually give them some. Resources that they wouldn't had maybe. What they're doing. And we have some history in doing that. >> That's exactly where we got 2 in the conversation is like, how do we do this in a way that feels like complements the work that's happening in that maybe asks different questions that obviously done in very close partnership. Their request was still the more time that we heard from a

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couple places tat this could be a great topic the year and a half now, 2 years from now, year from now, even >> There was if I may add chair, there was a council becoming you can probably speak to this as well. There was a general consensus of one during our interview with public works how they were struggling to come up with generate a. We searched questions for us to consider as well we ended up trying little of what I put in here in conversation what is research questions actually are used by other cities for their own performance elsewhere in the country looking a street impossible for pothole repair. Excuse me. And so we didn't get a lot input from pump as much input in public works, se like we did dsi or from O F the or from PPD. I actually have the opinion colleagues wait. Love to hear your thoughts on this. But I think public would be really there's a lot of interest in the community. Looking at public works. I think there And still with you. I think put it really well that. W can really work with departments really framing. Reses eson rk. al vue tth Looking back at what we did with Parks and rec and the library from 2020. 2023. It's from a so but we can do that. going with this. And now you

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can do that in. Perhaps tually just have leadededededed scene e e e e 2027 because we w thinking that we could potentially we can make could be here at the very first topic that we do for next cycle. Basically potentially we have that ready to go. This is that something the committee wants to do and be that the council agrees with this? Well, potentially, that was something that this May and I discussed last week a little bit in passing, I think only maybe 30 seconds on it, it's possible. Thank you, sir. Okay. Yeah. And I will I will touch the group as well. And we had this. We decided to have 3 topics recommend to the council. is to topics we can always recommend 2 topics, council and just say is that we think would be best and share the ones that we considered. In addition, why not? Why rise to the top and then the council colleagues decide these are the ones that from that forward. But if we're if really feeling like some of these are great topics, right now and there are a couple that are great topics for it. Now. Specifically counter farmed, licensing and by the way, right now, again, for the second one of these in particular is not until. The beginning of 27 at the for us. We so right now, it's

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definitely not right now. important my that we could we could recommend to. Just turned more into that next job. I was just share that like. And this came to me. Form of 3. I'm interested in the public works. I think the street street repair. I'll just my personal view us up potholes as my personal favorite. hear conversations around. Maybe, you know, thinking about their process and where they are as a department and that respect. I also think there's a ability to really showcase the work that the department is repairs and street maintenance repairs in a way that I think the thought it could be really actually helpful to that. I think there's lot of questions like it had about potholes prepare is in the community. And that's where like I think. But I think also just going back, this was supported to buy. Several district councils and the topics was trying to remember all. How many don't have that one in front of me. I thing. But like and I just would put that If things turn came to me that I would want start direct. Remember about kind of fully understand that because I probably would be of the mindset the council to move this one forward. But Mister McVeigh. >> 15 of the 17 District

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Council seats and also it was mentioned 4 times in the survey. So just want to bring that up as a person just like often talked about in my comments. I hear the department take understand that I have the difference. A distinction that offer just from being a part of all these conversation is that there's heavily relates to being relatively giving very little data for us tonight to actually make the process and process correct. Mike helpful and they're planning to do a lot of significant changes. So even though there's not going to be that much data there comparison to rent out department that is comparable to the work that do. I think there's a slight. Difference. But which is all for that as a as couple pieces, not to say it at all. But I think if I personally have an interest in but I also think that like so 15 17 districts, including think all of war. >> Yeah, felt a rush on This was a good topic bring forward. only after the perspective of the department shared with us. And so I have no objections. I would be super clear that I don't object to moving forward with it. I just I think that we will have to navigate how to work with the department that doesn't want us to do the audit. But I imagine that that has been educated in the past and that would have been for some will have to experience

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it. So no concerns about going for with all 3 of us. I do think the point assortment earlier Israelis to find that I think a lot of departments are saying don't study yes, because we're setting ourselves. >> To the extent that we can frame it let's help you help yourself. take some of this work after playing. You can study some other aspect of yourself as an obsession that might be perceived differently. looking to the room right now. so is to win a college town and recommend arrest. I'm seeing some heads nodding so formally make that motion. further discussion motion. And Nick, yeah, I feel if there's a consensus developing around that. Of drop in the college town I just put in the most since that was the mayor's suggestion, you know, in the interest of maintaining that relationship you know, circling back with the office we've been working on the self assessment to all and maybe offering that as an interim, you know what questions as the mayor's office have and want to have answered and maybe that could be put an self-assessment. In the meantime that that could maybe be, you know, good use of tool and a way to. Also maintain good will between spotty and the mayor's office. >> Thank you for reminding us

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of very fruitful special. We had last time about the self assessment that serve another like I did late so hot. It idea. can update us on where that Haitian that will is that are you? You're both working with no, yes. >> We've been going back and forth Mr. McMahon, you had 2 examples that you found and we're reviewing And the idea was maybe to have a subcommittee. Further develop it and maybe there be a standard set of questions that would be in each one and a custom set based on the topic. So it hasn't been kind of ironed out. >> Unfortunately, we didn't have time I should say I didn't have the forethought to bring us up within a span than maybe we should put have just a brief moment to discuss this on the agenda. But I'm hoping that we can actually. The self-assessment in OT. I don't know for meeting on a site in August September. So and then go off I very supportive. Mr. Centers, suggestion of having a subcommittee of the committee examine this depth because we do have one version that is institution of higher education. Also, I came up with version, actually. Is similar to what's used by Minnesota Management and Budget? One's a little bit more ones that that user friendly, but perhaps a few can merge. The 2 got very

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useful. departments to use. can actually be an ongoing practice where they are completing bones South assessments every providing them to asess the committee. So we actually understand their Trump control framework that they have and where things are going well with things where we can really tell her research questions. I was So >> Right. Well, we will definitely have assess the next agenda when we next me and I think the question by the meat in August or not really relates to how quickly. caget a resolution together and talk our colleagues and adopts and 2 of these. >> And then. >> Because our next Pearl is not a committee will be 2 from this. Go which will take Dr. Brett, we're going I guess what? I'm eating at the list I think it's on everybody's counters and we have the option to cancel it and But I will add that to our next topic accident. Whatever this thank you. >> just a question verification. We are. Dropping building code operations from the recommendation. I think it makes sense to just call this business licensing because this. And really think the department's there that there's not much. ? our 3 topics there would be district Council reform business license extreme and it's a pothole repair. The

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council 2 of those for the next calendar year. And the 26 beginning. It to ties. So is it comes the attic? Good tme table. We're becoming more efficient for improving operations. Continuously aside. >> Equality management's, improving exact next time. A lot of ourselves, OK, so that that further discussion seeing none all in favor say aye. I'll post and motion passes. Thank you. All we have are 3, but it's a topic switch. We will now after that monster cells, how to bring the price. All right, Matt. Brings us to our second topic, which I believe is much prefer one our community engagement update. I would let Mister McVeigh for an update. Give me councilmembers. I see too. And colleagues too. So working Between June and now I actually met with 9, 2 final district cuncils. I our last meeting, I said I'm done now. Well to get your council tax reached out to me and wanted to come meet with them in person after reached out and provide feedback to like sure. I hope Com present here for the folks in your neighborhood happy to do that. And so I met Payne Phelan. you put my calendar here. I see here. feeling on the 23rd wonderful conversation with folks there prior to that. Actually stopped over. with the folks from also get this,

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it so and we had a very good conversation that with a lot of folks and they give us a lot of different ideas. I did remind them that we are actually up currently in the middle of. At the time we were doing our risk assessment and narrowing down topics further community discussion. Ultimately also for council consultation, which they understood that think even some ideas to take into consideration for the future, which I need to document make sure that has at later dates that can bring that to the committee saying 2027 2028 whenever we get around to that again. That being said, I am I actually was able to meet with. All. But 2 of the district councils. And otherwise I was able to have conversations, all of through email or oher written I'm really thrilled about that. And I really just want to underline how much I appreciate our district councils cooperating with us in making this all possible. Got me a lot of really wonderful people through this before doing this again next year and continue this forward. So that being said, I am going to shift gears and I'm going to be meeting with several civic organizations. I'm not to be doing although because I'm a little busy right now. My internship in Capstone for grad school for

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my master's degrees. And I'm going to be up in Canada for the last 2 weeks of not all. Technically have last 2 weeks of August through the first week in September, visiting friends and Cousins. So I will be touching back on that September for certain things. Some of the organizations I hoped to get in touch with the League of Women Voters. Saint Paul, Minnesota Foundation, a Citizen League. The Chamber of Commerce Neighborhood, House Isaiah, which my truck was actually involved. ISIS. That's easy for me. Actually, the Asian economic Development Association. The Brown Community Center, the Alliance to downtown Lions, Open arms, storehouse. >> And a few other organizations. Well, I'm not gonna go through list because you al have much more important things to do than with severe and. >> Mrk, first of all, thank you so much for all of your work. And we've been I've been hearing from folks who are aware of us now with were before. And it's because of sir. Thank When possible, I think would be great if you could share the list ups organizations plan to visit and give us the opportunity names and thinking about groups that are that tend to be more citical of the city into thing called when it comes to mind immediately take

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a strong as another. it's important to be reaching out critics all us. new trailer friends neighborhood groups that are necessary district councils that light Rail Road Island neighborhood group comes to mind. So we could probably beef up the list and from there. Definitely prioritize ones that are most important because there'll be a longer list. I gladly accept. So it's has and continue to to We can definitely add that to the next agenda item that that's something the committee wished Madam Chair. Okay. And I am the community's humble servant. So anyone wants to make suggestions that anytime accepted him. And questions I we All rght. Well, that that's that brings us to the end of our agenda, very safe and happy summer. Until we see each other probably September. It story us if not don't each other until she has retired after 31 years we're seeing year. So. >> life in the next phase of daughter and until then.